[0:33] Okay.

[0:33] Hello everyone. Welcome to the select board meeting

[0:35] for August 11th.

[0:37] We are gonna start our meeting with

[0:41] this notice about this meeting being broadcast

[0:43] by the Needham Channel for the Town's YouTube channel,

[0:47] and recorded for later viewing.

[0:52] I think the Needham Observer

[0:54] and the Needham Local are with us recording.

[0:56] Is anybody else in the room recording?

[0:59] Time to tell the chairs now?

[1:01] Okay, then apologies for the late start,

[1:04] just working out some technical difficulties.

[1:06] And now we will move to our first agenda item

[1:08] with which is public comment.

[1:10] And I will ask Avery Newton to join us here at the table

[1:13] for our first public comment.

[1:19] Just introduce yourself, remind us of your address,

[1:24] and we're gonna ask you to wrap up in about three minutes.

[1:27] You can do great. And apologies for the noise outside.

[1:30] I had thought this was seven.

[1:31] I set up childcare accordingly. So

[1:33] No, the noise is The noise Is the light?

[1:35] Good, good. Good evening and good to see you.

[1:38] Members of the select board.

[1:40] My name is Avery Newton and I live at 69 Howlin Street.

[1:43] For those of you in this room who may not be aware,

[1:47] basala Art in the heart of Needham Center

[1:48] and staffed by my next door neighbors will soon be home,

[1:50] become home to the Town's 18th Bank branch.

[1:54] I know I'm not alone and feeling frustrated

[1:56] and a little defeated by this news, but

[1:57] before I go further, I want to be clear.

[1:59] My concern is not with Village Bank specifically.

[2:02] My concern is with the systems

[2:03] and structures that allowed us to get

[2:04] to number 18 in the first place, not

[2:06] who number 18 happens to be.

[2:08] Restaurants, cafes, small businesses, markets,

[2:11] and third spaces are destinations.

[2:12] They bring people downtown, encourage them to stay longer

[2:15] and support neighboring businesses.

[2:17] Banks provide an important service,

[2:19] but they are not destinations, they're institutions.

[2:21] They generate far less foot traffic

[2:23] and far fewer opportunities for people

[2:25] to shop, dine, or linger.

[2:27] In other words, it's not just a destination we're losing,

[2:29] but also a meaningful portion of the customer base

[2:31] that neighboring businesses rely on.

[2:34] The supporting research is remarkably

[2:35] consistent and available here.

[2:37] If anyone's interested, independent local businesses

[2:40] recirculate substantially more

[2:41] of their revenue within the local economy than national

[2:44] chains and large institutions up to two to four x.

[2:46] As we approach the critically important Pollard vote,

[2:49] this is the type of revenue that we all depend on

[2:51] to sustain our schools, our parks, our tax base,

[2:53] and ultimately the community itself.

[2:56] Finally, and perhaps most significantly,

[2:58] there is a profound irony here.

[3:00] Landlords generally view corporate banks

[3:01] as safe low risk tenants,

[3:03] but in chasing that short term safety,

[3:05] they actually risk hollowing out the very foot traffic

[3:07] and business diversity that makes Needham commercial real

[3:09] estate so valuable in the first place.

[3:12] With all that said, I want to look to the future

[3:14] and encourage the select board

[3:15] and other town leaders to consider some solutions.

[3:17] Knowing that no one can control who a landlord decides

[3:19] to rent to first zoning

[3:22] and land use, I'd ask the select board

[3:24] and planning board to explore ground floor use restrictions

[3:26] or conditional use permits for banks

[3:28] and other large financial

[3:29] institutions in our commercial core.

[3:31] Cambridge did exactly this in Central Square back in 2017

[3:34] after realizing that bank Oversaturation specifically was

[3:38] negatively impacting both the retail diversity

[3:40] and the overall economic health of the of the area.

[3:43] Second, financial incentives for commercial properties.

[3:46] I'd encourage the town to explore vacancy fees

[3:48] for storefronts sitting empty, unleaded paired

[3:50] with a split rate to commercial tax exemption for landlords

[3:54] who lease to local merchants.

[3:56] I understand that a small business popup program may already

[3:58] be in the works for this space,

[3:59] and I'm eager to see if that

[4:00] arrangement could be scaled as well.

[4:03] Third and finally, policies supportive

[4:05] of small local businesses to help lower the cost

[4:08] of doing business in Needham.

[4:09] This could include establishing a BuyRight approval process

[4:12] for independent shops or cafes under a certain size

[4:15] or raving first year permitting fees

[4:16] for local entrepreneurs.

[4:18] My overall point is this.

[4:20] We don't need 18 different places to store our money.

[4:22] We need more places that make this

[4:24] wonderful town a community.

[4:25] I humbly ask that town leadership consider exploring one

[4:28] or several of these policies to help promote some

[4:30] of the vitality that we have continued

[4:31] to lose under these current practices. Thank you.

[4:34] Thanks, Avery. Spike, the

[4:38] Appreciate it and hopefully within within three minutes.

[4:41] Perfect. Thank you for your time. Perfect.

[4:44] All right, so we're gonna invite Cory Wilke, come on up.

[4:49] See? Thank you. Hi, Corey. Nice to see you.

[4:52] Nice to see you. Thank you. Members of the board,

[4:54] my name's Corey Wilke.

[4:56] I live at six Wayne Road in Needham.

[4:59] I have two children in the school system,

[5:01] and I am speaking as a member of the Needham

[5:04] and Baseball softball, Needham Baseball

[5:06] and Softball Board as both the director of RSB, which is one

[5:09] of our baseball programs

[5:11] and is the Vice President of baseball operations.

[5:13] Having assumed that position when Chris Gerstel resigned

[5:17] from the board a year ago.

[5:19] I submitted a letter today to you guys on top of a couple

[5:22] of emails, but I'd like

[5:24] to just touch briefly within three minutes

[5:26] or less upon the urgent need that we have,

[5:28] which is the renovation repair memorial field

[5:31] with a turf in field grass Outfield

[5:34] Needham currently has only three big diamond baseball fields

[5:37] down from four several years ago when McLeod Field was

[5:40] converted to softball, a decision never presented

[5:43] to the NBA sport for input, despite Chris Gerst.

[5:46] Then simultaneously being the Parks and Rec commissioner

[5:49] and the VP of baseball ops

[5:51] and being involved in that project from inception

[5:53] to completion, most members

[5:55] of the board did not find out about it until it was done.

[5:59] We face a similar problem at a greater scale

[6:01] because Warner Field, one

[6:02] of the three remaining big diamonds, is slated to serve

[6:04] as a staging area for the Pollard Middle School Project,

[6:07] which we support, and we could go offline within 12

[6:10] to 24 months, leaving only two big diamonds, one

[6:13] of which Walker Gordon doesn't meet dimensional requirements

[6:16] for varsity baseball

[6:17] and immemorial is typically unusable

[6:20] as it cannot handle adverse weather.

[6:22] As an example, varsity was only able to practice on

[6:24] that field approximately 25% of the days

[6:27] this PA, this past year.

[6:29] So we desperately need assistance from the town.

[6:31] With respect to field maintenance costs,

[6:34] MBS spends significant amounts of money on

[6:36] outside contractors to maintain our fields.

[6:38] This was an arrangement initiated seven years ago by Mr.

[6:41] Geral. We surveyed 15 period communities only Weston's Youth

[6:46] Baseball Board contributed in any meaningful way,

[6:48] and then at a significantly lower scale than us.

[6:51] We have paid on average $70,000 a year towards fields over

[6:54] the past five years plus user fees.

[6:57] We've only been able to find one town

[6:58] that contributed more than 5,000 on average.

[7:01] We also pay a higher user fee than most

[7:04] or almost all other towns,

[7:06] and we receive significantly fewer services in terms

[7:08] of town raking lining, game prep, or wet field prep.

[7:12] Currently, our middle school team does not have a diamond.

[7:15] Our freshman are often canceled

[7:17] because varsity needs to go to Warner

[7:19] and JV then to Walker Gordon.

[7:21] Without Warner, we'll have four teams competing for two

[7:24] and without a memorial rehab, often one diamond

[7:27] that's not taken into account, the 10

[7:28] or so little league big Diamond teams.

[7:31] The two Legion teams are the four Rocket selects teams

[7:33] that all play on the big diamonds.

[7:36] This is an urgent need

[7:37] and we really hope that the town can complete the Memorial

[7:40] Field Project in 2027.

[7:43] We're also hoping

[7:44] to find a short term third diamond while Warner is offline,

[7:49] maybe through town connections of Babson or St.

[7:52] Sebs, ensure

[7:53] that Warner will actually be brought back online as soon

[7:56] as possible when staging is done,

[7:57] and identify a location

[7:59] for a fourth diamond in the long term,

[8:01] because three hasn't been sustainable for us.

[8:04] The letter today includes more detail then I can express in

[8:06] these three minutes, which I think just ended.

[8:08] So I'm happy to do anything further.

[8:10] That would help. Thank you. Thanks.

[8:11] Thanks, Corey. And the

[8:12] we'll be reaching out to you to get Okay. Thank you

[8:14] Very much. To put

[8:15] Some discussion Together.

[8:16] Thank you. Okay.

[8:20] All right. And the last public comment that we're aware

[8:25] of tonight is Bill Looney.

[8:28] Come on up. Thanks for being here tonight.

[8:33] Thank you. Your name and your address, please.

[8:36] Good evening. My name is Bill Looney.

[8:38] I live at two 13 Garden Street in Needham.

[8:40] I'm joined by mini neighbors here tonight,

[8:45] and we ask that the select board not endorse a 1 93 Garden

[8:48] Street Project as it is proposed.

[8:51] We attended the April 28th select board meeting

[8:53] with the same request and with the ferry.

[8:56] Same concerns. We've had communication with Mr.

[8:59] Aldi since the last select board meeting,

[9:02] but there have been no changes to the proposed project,

[9:05] and there have been no other actions taken

[9:06] to address the neighborhood concerns

[9:08] since this process began.

[9:11] It's been frustrating to say the least.

[9:14] I believe the neighborhood is supportive of a sensibly sized

[9:17] friendly 40 B project at the development at the site,

[9:21] but the developer proposes to build ten five bedroom homes

[9:26] on a single family lot in a single family neighborhood.

[9:30] Simply put, the size

[9:32] and scale of this proposed project is grossly oversized

[9:36] for the lot and outta scale for the neighborhood.

[9:40] This unreasonable scale raises numerous environmental

[9:43] zoning, safety and neighborhood deficiencies.

[9:48] Late last week, a number of neighbors submitted letters

[9:50] to the town manager

[9:51] and to the select board outlining our serious

[9:53] concerns about the project.

[9:56] These concerns include the following, numerous building

[9:59] and zoning issues focused on density, building height,

[10:03] parking, adequacy, and circulation,

[10:05] and lack of disability access, safety issues,

[10:08] including first responder access

[10:10] and fire safety, accessibility,

[10:13] serious environmental concerns.

[10:15] The property is adjacent to conservation areas and wetlands.

[10:19] The project will require substantial grading,

[10:21] vegetation removal, expanded impervious areas,

[10:24] intensive habitat disturbance into the wetlands area

[10:27] and its buffer zones.

[10:29] And in order to expand the lot's buildable area,

[10:32] the developer proposes

[10:33] to construct a massive retaining wall adjacent

[10:36] to the wetlands to fill in the gully

[10:38] that drops down into the wetland area.

[10:41] And fourth, there's a lack of detail and review.

[10:45] We ask that the select board be cautious in considering a

[10:48] project with so many concerns

[10:50] and very little information to address those concerns.

[10:55] We know Mr. Aldi builds nice homes,

[10:57] and we ask that the development at 1 93 Garden Street be

[11:01] appropriate for the neighborhood, the neighborhood.

[11:03] Ask that the select board please not endorse the project

[11:06] as it is proposed.

[11:07] There are so many serious deficiencies

[11:09] that it's not possible to come up with a list of conditions

[11:12] that could remedy this proposal.

[11:15] We believe the developer should go back to the drawing board

[11:17] and submit a pro and submit a project that's suitable

[11:21] for the lot for the neighborhood

[11:22] and for the town. Thank you.

[11:24] Thank you. Okay.

[11:28] Is there anyone else in the room who came with the intent

[11:31] of making public comment?

[11:34] All right. Anyone online? I don't see any hands. No. Okay.

[11:39] Thanks everyone. All right.

[11:41] So the first item on our agenda is the 2026

[11:45] International Overdose Awareness Day proclamation.

[11:49] And for that, we'll turn to the vice chair,

[11:52] Certainly.

[11:54] Whereas International Overdose Awareness Day aims

[11:57] to bring communities together

[11:58] to remember without stigma those who have died from overdose

[12:01] and acknowledge the grief of the family

[12:03] and friends left behind.

[12:04] And whereas observance of this day is an opportunity

[12:07] to raise awareness about the risk of overdose,

[12:09] promote discussion about prevention,

[12:11] and share information about support services.

[12:14] And whereas addiction is a disease

[12:16] that touches families in every community,

[12:18] the epidemic has claimed the lives of thousands

[12:20] of Massachusetts residents

[12:22] and affected countless other family members.

[12:24] And whereas those affected by overdose are our children,

[12:27] our parents, our siblings,

[12:28] and deserve our compassion and support.

[12:31] And whereas the town of Needham, Massachusetts does affirm

[12:34] and acknowledge the pain

[12:35] and hardship caused by drug overdose, now

[12:38] therefore be it resolved that August 27th, 2026,

[12:41] be declared International Overdose Awareness

[12:43] Day in the town of Needham.

[12:46] Madam Chair, I would move

[12:47] that the board votes will approve

[12:49] and sign the 2026 International Overdose

[12:51] Awareness Day proclamation

[12:53] Second.

[12:55] All right. Any discussion? Okay.

[12:59] All of our votes will be roll called,

[13:02] because we have a member remote.

[13:03] So Kathy, I'm gonna start with you. Oh,

[13:05] Wait, I just, one thought there is overdose

[13:08] awareness night coming up.

[13:10] Thank You. On August 27th. Seventh 27th.

[13:13] At Memorial Park. At Memorial Park.

[13:14] Thank you.

[13:19] So we have a, a motion on the table

[13:23] and we'll go to a vote.

[13:25] Kathy? Yes. Bill? Yes.

[13:30] Josh? Yes. Kevin.

[13:32] Aye. And I vote yes as well. So the motion passes.

[13:36] Thank you. All right.

[13:39] Next we have a public hearing, a Eversource grant

[13:42] of location for 77 Wellesley Avenue.

[13:44] I imagine we're gonna be joined by Joanne Calendar.

[13:48] And is Mike Bakari in the room? I believe he's online.

[13:51] We're online. Okay. Fantastic. Thank you.

[13:54] Mike Bakari from Precision Contracting.

[13:59] Hi, Joanne.

[14:04] Okay, Joanne, just say hello.

[14:05] I'm not sure we can hear you. Oh, no, we're not hearing you.

[14:10] Hang on one sec. Try again.

[14:16] Hmm. Nothing yet. Nothing yet.

[14:18] Nothing. Hello? Everyone good?

[14:21] I heard him. Oh, there we go. Okay. Fantastic.

[14:23] Hi, Joanne. You

[14:25] Can hear me now?

[14:26] Yes, we can hear you now. Thank you. Okay.

[14:28] Can, can you tell us about this grant of location?

[14:31] Sure. So let's see. Try that again.

[14:34] We actually sent an updated package yesterday

[14:37] because there was some changes to the poll

[14:39] that Eversource will be providing service from.

[14:42] Okay. So, and I noticed in the packet

[14:45] that the clerk sent out,

[14:46] she did not include the newest plan.

[14:49] I sent it over minutes ago.

[14:51] I don't know if you received it,

[14:52] but at, so at this point,

[14:55] Eversource is seeking the grand location to install,

[14:57] install approximately 17 feet of conduit

[15:00] into Wellesley Avenue.

[15:01] And that's from Pole 61 11.

[15:06] And that is to provide underground service

[15:09] to the new home at 77 Wellesley Avenue.

[15:13] Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Joanne.

[15:15] Okay, so yeah,

[15:17] it looks like quite a few changes, Madam Town Manager.

[15:22] Is everything in order here?

[15:24] Unfortunately, the work was completed.

[15:26] Well, initial work was done

[15:28] before the grant location, and that's why we have Mr.

[15:31] Bakari here. And just to note for the board in your packet,

[15:34] you do have the most updated that Ms.

[15:35] Calendar just referenced. Okay.

[15:37] So you're looking at the updated requests.

[15:39] I Think the poll is four,

[15:41] not a different poll in the packet.

[15:44] Yeah, I think when the clerk sent it over yesterday,

[15:46] she sent the engineer sketch, not the actual plan.

[15:50] So I don't know if you have the plan in your packet

[15:53] that shows the 17th feet of conduit coming from 61 over 11.

[15:58] Yeah, I see a sketch, I think.

[16:00] Yeah. So you didn't get, I I emailed it, like I said,

[16:03] around five 30, but I wasn't convinced you would receive it.

[16:06] Sure. I can pull it up on my screen if, if you can see

[16:09] that I, yeah.

[16:11] Can you, can you see it? I

[16:12] Think I, I mean, for me,

[16:14] the sketch is adequate personally,

[16:17] but I, I guess I do have a question.

[16:19] So if we've changed polls,

[16:22] but some of the work was already done, can,

[16:24] can you help us understand where work was done

[16:28] and if it has to be undone or redone?

[16:31] No. So the, the customer did install the conduit from the

[16:34] correct pole from 61 over 11.

[16:37] So it's, the 17 feet of conduit is already present. Okay.

[16:41] We just had it wrong on our sketch.

[16:43] We were coming all the way down the street from a different

[16:45] pole, and we were looking for over a hundred feet

[16:48] of conduit, which just was not correct.

[16:50] Okay. So I'm glad

[16:54] that the work was done correctly.

[16:55] However, Mr.

[16:59] Bakari, perhaps you can help us understand

[17:03] how the work was done ahead of the grant

[17:04] of location that's required.

[17:08] So, truthfully, it was an oversight on

[17:12] my end and the,

[17:16] the electrician's end as well.

[17:18] We were under the impression that we were supposed

[17:21] to lay the conduit down, bring it to

[17:24] the handhold before the pole.

[17:26] The hand hole is just basically a, a box

[17:28] before the pole, get it inspected,

[17:31] and then get in touch with Eversource to come out,

[17:33] do the survey, and then have this grant of, right.

[17:41] Now, obviously we understand that that is the wrong order.

[17:46] Have you done, have you done work in Needham before?

[17:49] I've done plenty of work in Needham before,

[17:51] but truthfully, this is my first underground,

[17:55] my first underground service that I'm doing.

[17:57] Typically, it's always overhead.

[18:00] Okay, thank you.

[18:03] We were about, I think we're about,

[18:06] I think we're about five feet short, so it was kind

[18:09] of last minute that we had to decide to

[18:13] do an underground service as opposed to an overhead.

[18:17] Okay. Thank you for that explanation.

[18:21] Do any of my colleagues have any questions

[18:23] or comments, Jill?

[18:25] So, so if Joanne, the, that one 15 feet

[18:28] that was originally proposed,

[18:30] not none of that was ever done.

[18:31] Right?

[18:33] That was not, they only, they came from

[18:38] the private property, if you will, of over

[18:40] to the pole 61 over 11. Okay.

[18:42] Thank you. The pole is right at the end

[18:45] of our property, if that helps with you.

[18:48] I don't know if you have the, the slot plan in

[18:51] front of you. Yeah.

[18:52] Okay. I'm gonna open this.

[18:55] This is a public hearing, so I'm gonna open this up.

[18:57] The public comment, if there's anyone in the room

[18:59] who came here in order to discuss this matter.

[19:05] Okay. It appears not, is there anyone

[19:06] online who's here for this matter?

[19:08] No, there's not. Okay. All right. So Mr.

[19:13] Bakari, what? I thought I saw something.

[19:16] Oh, Mr.

[19:18] Bakari, the, we, we need to ensure that you are,

[19:25] that the grant of location is taken care of prior

[19:27] to the work being done in all cases.

[19:29] You know? Yes. It ensures safety, it ensures

[19:34] that the work is gonna be done properly.

[19:36] It ensures that there's no property issues.

[19:41] So I just, mistakes happen. Yeah.

[19:45] And I, I hear your explanation

[19:47] that this was your first underground one,

[19:48] but I just wanna make sure that you understand

[19:50] that in the future, this is the first stop

[19:53] and the work has to come second.

[19:55] Yes, definitely. And we just, just to

[19:59] reiterate a little bit too, it was,

[20:00] we did have the electrical inspector come out

[20:03] and inspect it as well just to, you know, solidify

[20:06] that all the, the work was done properly.

[20:08] I think the biggest mistake for me was the process

[20:13] coming to you first and then feeling involved.

[20:17] This, we just always wanna make sure that, you know,

[20:20] the neighbors have an opportunity

[20:21] to weigh in if there's anything

[20:23] that they're concerned about, et cetera.

[20:25] It's just public access and engagement. Absolutely.

[20:27] That's required. So, alright, so I guess

[20:31] the work has been done

[20:35] and in done on the correct poll,

[20:37] so we can all be glad for that.

[20:39] Does anyone have any comments they'd like to make?

[20:41] It seems like we've seen this a couple times now.

[20:44] And do we publicize well or why, what?

[20:47] I don't understand why it keeps happening.

[20:49] I guess I, and I guess so that's my question.

[20:52] Then the other question is, you know, do we keep track

[20:56] of people who do the work before they come here?

[20:59] Because if they ever come back a second time,

[21:02] I really would not be that favorable.

[21:05] Yes. But I don't know what we can do.

[21:07] That's a good question. Thanks for the question.

[21:11] So maybe three years ago we had a whole slew

[21:15] of work being done before a grant of location.

[21:17] And so the board at the time had asked us

[21:19] to make operational improvements to figure out

[21:21] how we can better educate all of the parties.

[21:24] I'd say part of the issue is that

[21:28] each party is losing sight of the other piece of the puzzle.

[21:32] So a contractor has a building permit through the town,

[21:36] sometimes an electrical permit, they have

[21:39] to request from Eversource, an Eversource field agent

[21:42] to go out on the scene.

[21:43] If they wanna do underground, the Eversource team goes out,

[21:48] does the initial sketch.

[21:50] And a lot of times what we're hearing from contractors was,

[21:52] well, Eversource came out and they gave me this sketch

[21:55] and so that's the work that I'm gonna do.

[21:57] So we instituted a lot of process improvements,

[22:00] understanding that that was maybe giving contractors

[22:04] and not a clear understanding that then the, the grant

[22:06] of location comes to the select board actually

[22:08] through Eversource, not through the contractor themselves.

[22:12] And that then the work should continue from there.

[22:14] So some of the improvements that we made from that time was

[22:17] we met with Eversource, we became fast friends

[22:19] with Miss Calendar, and one of the things

[22:22] that we requested is when the Eversource team goes out on

[22:26] site, that they let us know

[22:27] that they've been out in the field with someone so

[22:29] that we could just give a call to the contractor

[22:31] and say, Hey, we know that you met with Eversource,

[22:33] but you should know that, that there's more steps to come.

[22:39] But the other piece is making sure we educate on our

[22:42] own materials.

[22:44] So when you apply for a building permit, now you have

[22:46] to indicate whether you're going overground

[22:48] or underground overhead or underground.

[22:51] And on our building permit page, there's language on there

[22:55] that says, if you're going underground, here's the grant

[22:58] of location requirement.

[22:59] So it's built into our permitting system

[23:02] and you know, the obligation at the end

[23:03] of the day really is on the permit polar.

[23:06] So I'll, I'll note that on the, the plans that we have,

[23:11] I mean, it is highlighted in bright yellow

[23:14] that says the electrician to wait for grant of location

[23:17] before completing work to pull. So

[23:20] It, and I wanna acknowledge Eversource made

[23:21] that change at our request from a few years

[23:24] back. They added that text

[23:25] To the, which is, which is great.

[23:27] But yeah, maybe, maybe, I mean,

[23:31] it it seems pretty, is this what they're giving to the,

[23:36] okay, so then, then I guess the folks aren't reading.

[23:40] I mean it, you know,

[23:43] 'cause it, it, it's on both pages highlighted.

[23:46] Right?

[23:48] Put it in red. It did. I mean,

[23:51] It, it's actually, I mean, it's actually yellow.

[23:54] It's outlined in red and highlighted in yellow.

[23:57] It's hard, it's hard to imagine how someone could,

[24:01] could kind of miss it, honestly. Well,

[24:03] In, in this situation, when Eversource went out there,

[24:06] the work had already been done.

[24:08] So we, we didn't have the sketch to hand to the customer

[24:12] 'cause the work had already been done. Oh,

[24:14] Okay. Good. Good

[24:15] Point.

[24:16] Could I, could I, could I say one thing just as the Sure.

[24:19] Help Us kind of Yeah.

[24:20] Just to kind of get real life scenario please.

[24:25] I, I, I do think that there is a disconnect

[24:29] from the contractor slash electrician

[24:34] to the permit pulling process

[24:39] where I, you know, when we pull the permit,

[24:43] there isn't anything that, you know, really is like,

[24:47] not in your face, but showing you, hey,

[24:50] you have to go through this step.

[24:53] You know, like when we, when we go to pull a permit, we have

[24:56] to upload a bunch of requirements, right.

[24:58] You know, we have to upload the site plan,

[25:01] the permit drawing, I mean the architectural drawings.

[25:04] And there's nothing that really says, Hey, you need

[25:07] this plan from Eversource to move forward.

[25:11] Okay. So it was, I I will say like it, for me, doing the as

[25:15] as this being my first time doing a underground service,

[25:19] I was a little confused, taken back, I guess

[25:22] with the process because it wasn't

[25:27] really straightforward for us on our end.

[25:31] Once I spoke with Eversource, it was very easy

[25:33] and very straightforward, but I did not know

[25:36] that process beforehand.

[25:38] Okay. Well I appreciate that perspective.

[25:41] We'll have to discuss this internally to see if there's any,

[25:46] I hate to, I hate to belabor, but I'm madam chair,

[25:48] but I'm wondering if we have, on the permit, we say,

[25:51] are you going overground and underground?

[25:52] I don't know if it says on that permit, if it says next

[25:55] to the underground, if you're going underground, you need

[25:58] to get the grant of location.

[26:00] I Believe it does, but I'm gonna triple check now

[26:02] and if not, we can definitely update it. Yeah,

[26:04] Yeah.

[26:05] Sorry to pull on.

[26:05] No, no, I, I mean it's,

[26:08] we wanna figure this out, so I appreciate it.

[26:11] Okay. So

[26:14] With all that said, I would move that, thank you.

[26:18] Sign a petition from Eversource Energy

[26:20] to install approximately 17 feet

[26:22] of conduit in Wellesley Ave. Second.

[26:26] Okay, great. Can I just reconfirm at the town manager

[26:28] so we have that documentation, the correct, the,

[26:33] the, the correct book

[26:35] that has been done in the correct location.

[26:36] 'cause I, I'm, I'm fine with approving it now,

[26:39] but in 10, 15, however many years from now,

[26:41] we wanna make sure that yeah, we know

[26:43] where the work is under our street, our sidewalks.

[26:47] Yes. Based on the plans, the updated plans

[26:49] of the 17 feet. Is that what you're asking?

[26:51] And from the correct pole? Yes.

[26:52] Okay. Yes. Engineering's fully in the loop. Yes.

[26:55] Thank you.

[26:57] All right. So we have the motion on the table then,

[27:00] and I will start with Kathy.

[27:03] Yes. Bill? Yes. Josh? Yes. Kevin? Yes.

[27:09] And the chair votes? Yes.

[27:10] So hearing I already, I already, we already did that.

[27:14] Didn't forget. Thanks Bill.

[27:17] All right, so the motion passes and we can move along.

[27:19] Thank you both. Thank you for joining us. Have a good night.

[27:22] You all have a great night. Thank you. Thank you.

[27:25] Okay, the next item on our agenda is

[27:28] Steven Palmer jurisdiction update.

[27:29] And for that we'll turn to our town manager.

[27:32] Thank you Madam Chair.

[27:34] At your last meeting, we discussed a recent vote

[27:36] of the school committee regarding their interest in

[27:39] retaining jurisdiction over the

[27:40] Stephen Palmer property and Building.

[27:43] And the copy of their exact vote is in your packet.

[27:47] But from there, based on the board's discussion

[27:49] in at your July meeting, I drafted an initial MOA to try to

[27:55] kind of codify some of the responsibilities that were

[27:59] articulated or requested in the school committee vote.

[28:02] So I won't review the where as is, which tries

[28:06] to just put the history and the facts down clearly.

[28:09] But the commitments in the MOA

[28:11] for the board's consideration,

[28:12] and I'd be looking for your feedback, is an agreement

[28:17] that the select board would agree to assume responsibility

[28:21] for supporting existing Stephen Palmer tenants in

[28:23] relocating, winding down the current residential use

[28:26] and managing the Stephen Palmer Building

[28:27] and Parcel until the building is vacant.

[28:32] Item two, the school committee

[28:33] through the superintendent will prepare

[28:35] and submit capital requests for the property for FY 28

[28:38] through 32 capital improvement plan based on the

[28:41] anticipated use of the building.

[28:43] Item three, the town manager,

[28:46] I would request funding in the fiscal year 2028 operating

[28:49] budget that whatever is needed to maintain,

[28:52] operate, and ensure the building.

[28:54] And I would say a lot of that will also be driven by,

[28:57] if the select board is making decisions under item one about

[29:02] the wind down of the residential use

[29:04] and how we're doing that, that would inform

[29:05] that operating budget request.

[29:08] And item four, if town meeting appropriates funding

[29:10] for a town wide facilities master plan, which I've expressed

[29:13] to the board, I would ask that be a priority

[29:18] for the board in the coming year, that the school committee

[29:21] and the select board would agree to include Steven Palmer in

[29:24] that, along with all the other town owned assets so

[29:26] that we can take a look at our assets holistically.

[29:30] So this is for your discussion and feedback

[29:34] and happy to make any edits the board sees fit.

[29:39] Okay. I'm gonna open it up for discussion.

[29:42] Does anyone, any of my colleagues want to, yeah,

[29:45] So manager, thank you to the

[29:47] town manager for putting this together.

[29:48] I think this reflects the discussion

[29:49] and I think this in my mind,

[29:51] will help us manage the property in

[29:55] uncertain circumstances.

[29:57] I guess we can say it that way on, on the fourth one

[30:00] with the, the facility master plan.

[30:02] I, I agree with this as well.

[30:03] I think I've heard talk

[30:06] of potentially demolishing the building.

[30:08] I mean, if it's gonna be in the facility master plan, we,

[30:12] I think that would be a decision that's held off

[30:14] until that occurs.

[30:16] That's my understanding. At least

[30:20] A request for funds to demolish the building would come

[30:23] under item two from the schools as a,

[30:27] through the capital process, I believe.

[30:29] And I'll discuss that further with our deputy manager,

[30:33] director of finance and the superintendent of schools.

[30:34] But I think the timing of when the school committee wants

[30:37] to submit that request, I think

[30:40] that would be a conversation with them.

[30:42] If we do move forward

[30:45] with the town wide facilities master plan, would that

[30:47] impact which year they'd be looking for funds to demolish?

[30:51] But again, that, that's for, for discussion.

[30:56] Yeah, I guess we have to discuss it more.

[30:57] 'cause if it, if it's gonna be demolished,

[30:58] then why have it in the cap in the master plan.

[31:04] But, but either way, if, if it was demolished, I mean

[31:07] that would be after this, the period specified in the MOA.

[31:11] Right? Right. So I

[31:16] think intrinsically sort

[31:18] of putting it off any other,

[31:24] To me it just seems too, I,

[31:26] it's gonna be hard to work with two and four.

[31:28] 'cause if the schools all of a sudden say we want the blank,

[31:31] but then we're putting in a facility study master,

[31:34] are we gonna say, okay, we're giving

[31:36] what their blank are we gonna make suggestion

[31:37] based on the facility study?

[31:39] So it's just something that I think we need to look at.

[31:41] Just like if you were to tear it down almost, you know,

[31:44] if they had made a decision, I'm not saying

[31:49] that it's terrible,

[31:51] I'm just saying it's something we need to think about.

[31:53] Agreed. Agreed. Okay. Kevin? Yeah,

[31:58] Katie, this is fine.

[31:59] It's great. I appreciate that, considering

[32:01] that circumstances have changed,

[32:03] considering this co codifies it. Well, so

[32:05] Thank you Kathy.

[32:09] Yeah, just, just Katie confirming here that

[32:12] what this agreement does is that we will handle the building

[32:16] until it is empty and then we will turn over an empty

[32:19] building to the school committee.

[32:22] Yes, that's correct. And then the second question is,

[32:25] in terms of the town wine facilities master plan,

[32:29] I'm assuming other school buildings are also

[32:31] in that plan, right?

[32:33] That would be my intention.

[32:34] And it's something I've discussed

[32:36] with the superintendent as well.

[32:38] So we haven't scoped anything.

[32:40] You know, this would be a budget request submission

[32:42] through the FY 28 budget process.

[32:44] And we could scope it, but I would recommend that all town

[32:47] and school facilities be included.

[32:49] Yeah. Okay. So then it's nothing

[32:51] special about this, right?

[32:52] If if every single facility

[32:54] and building, whether school, town,

[32:57] whatever is all included, then this wouldn't,

[33:00] that would make sense, I guess.

[33:01] But understand that that has not yet been scoped.

[33:07] All Right. Okay.

[33:12] All right. Yeah, I, I'm, I'm glad that

[33:15] this MOA will help us settle this issue of governance,

[33:18] you know, who, who's making decisions here

[33:21] for the short term so that it will allow us to explore

[33:28] what, what our plan should be.

[33:29] So there's no vote on this this evening, we're just,

[33:35] just considering and we'll take this up

[33:37] presumably at our next meeting.

[33:39] Thanks. Okay. Alright.

[33:42] So we'll move on to our next agenda item.

[33:45] This is the MWRA,

[33:48] the Massachusetts Water Resource Authority project updates.

[33:51] And we're gonna welcome a whole, whole team up.

[33:54] So come on up. I'm just gonna ask you, join us here.

[33:59] We want to make sure that when you're speaking,

[34:01] you're speaking into a microphone.

[34:04] Doesn't have to be like right up against it,

[34:06] but we wanna make sure that everyone on TV can hear you.

[34:10] And I'll ask you to start with some introductions.

[34:14] So I think we have two items on the agenda.

[34:16] The first one that we'll talk

[34:18] to is a Needham dewatering drain line.

[34:20] Great. And then we have another set

[34:21] of people, another set of, okay.

[34:22] Speak to the csl. Great. Alright.

[34:25] So my name is Paul Sbar,

[34:26] I'm the acting director for the Tunnel program.

[34:28] We appreciate the select board meeting with us today.

[34:30] We've met you a few times in the past on a tunnel program

[34:33] with some updates today.

[34:34] It's about one specific piece of construction

[34:37] for a drain line that we need to start

[34:38] before tunnel construction starts.

[34:40] But it's gonna help us get the tunnel construction so

[34:43] that when the tunnel contractor's on

[34:44] board, he's ready to go right away.

[34:45] So that, that's the first point.

[34:47] And I think we add some slides.

[34:50] Yes. But before you get started, just guys you

[34:52] Wanna introduce yourselves And I'm David Apt.

[34:54] I'm the design manager for the tunnel department. Great. I'm

[34:58] Ka Combine.

[34:59] Dean Maria, I'm the community relations coordinator.

[35:00] Excellent, thank you. Yeah. Okay,

[35:02] so we are starting our slides.

[35:05] Wonderful. Getting shared.

[35:14] Super Right. So next slide.

[35:19] So I'm just gonna give a quick update

[35:20] of the tunnel program just in context.

[35:22] That leads us up to the drain drain line

[35:24] that we're here really to talk about.

[35:26] And then Dave's gonna walk us

[35:27] through some specifics about the drain line

[35:29] so you'll be aware of what the work is.

[35:30] Great. And then we'll just cover some

[35:32] additional questions at the very end.

[35:33] So the next slide, we've shown this figure a number

[35:37] of times, but within that black circle is most

[35:39] of the metropolitan area that VM already serves water to.

[35:43] We need to provide redundancy for

[35:45] what you can see listed there, which is our city tunnel,

[35:47] city tunnel extension and Dorchester tunnel.

[35:49] That's what we call our Metropolitan water tunnel system.

[35:52] There are a couple incidences

[35:53] that happened in the past back in May of 2010

[35:56] and more recently in 2024 that brought us to the, the need

[36:01] for redundancy to the city tunnel system.

[36:03] We had a boil water order back in 2010

[36:05] because the, there's a water main break on the city

[36:08] tunnel or just upstream of that.

[36:10] That led us to the tunnel program.

[36:11] So I'm not gonna go into a lot

[36:12] of detail about the tunnel program,

[36:14] but it's about providing redundancy to

[36:16] that metropolitan tunnel system that we have.

[36:18] Can I ask why is break in quotes? Sure.

[36:22] Oh, we, we just, it, it was a water main break

[36:26] so it was a significant break for us.

[36:28] It wasn't a run of the mill type thing.

[36:30] There's no real sub reason

[36:31] to putting into quotes other than just

[36:34] to draw some attention to it. Okay,

[36:36] Thank you.

[36:40] I think we've talked about before some of the purposes

[36:42] for the tunnel program.

[36:44] And the main point here is

[36:45] that we wanna make sure we provide unin uninterrupted

[36:48] delivery of our high quality water to all the communities

[36:50] that we serve at any time

[36:52] of the year without any service interruptions.

[36:54] So that's why we need the tunnel program in order to be able

[36:57] to do that so that those similar incidences

[36:59] that have occurred in the past, if they happen again,

[37:01] we have ways to direct water around them to,

[37:04] to continue the service that we need to do.

[37:08] Next slide. So this is really a slide showing the

[37:10] overall tunnel program.

[37:11] And we've shown this one to the board before.

[37:15] We have two tunnel systems, one's in green, it's called

[37:17] that north tunnel that's gonna go from the Mass Pike

[37:19] and head up north five miles.

[37:21] The one for today that we're really concerned

[37:23] about is the south tunnel.

[37:24] And it's shown there are two colors, blue and a red stretch.

[37:28] And it's gonna also start at the Mass Pike in Route 1 28

[37:31] or on I 95 interchange area.

[37:34] That's where our halman aqueduct supplies the water into

[37:36] these tunnel systems and it'll deliver it all

[37:38] the way down to Mattapan.

[37:40] But to construct that tunnel,

[37:41] we we'll be using a tunnel boring machine

[37:44] and the tunnel boring machine will be starting at the I 95

[37:47] Highland Avenue interchange right here in Needham.

[37:50] And then it's gonna go construct in two different

[37:51] directions, one along that red path

[37:53] and one along the blue path.

[37:56] When that tunnel gets constructed, there's all the material

[37:59] that comes out, comes out path,

[38:01] those launch gas gets taken up

[38:02] and loaded onto trucks and taken away.

[38:04] But during construction, there'll be water groundwater

[38:06] that infiltrates into the tunnel

[38:08] and that water needs to also be brought back to the shaft

[38:10] so it can be pumped up to the surface treated

[38:12] to meet permit discharge requirements.

[38:14] And then, so the purpose of today is

[38:16] what we need is a pipeline to get from

[38:18] that interchange area over to the Charles River.

[38:21] So we call it a Needham dewatering drain line.

[38:23] It's what we call an early enabling work.

[38:25] So it's a piece of construction we need to do ahead

[38:28] of the large tunnel construction contract.

[38:30] So when the tunnel contractor comes on board,

[38:32] there's a place for that water to go to and get discharged.

[38:35] And so for the next slide, we're still on, just

[38:38] so we're aware that tunnel construction is still on schedule

[38:40] to start in 2028.

[38:42] And this is a piece of work that we need to do

[38:44] essentially next year so that we're ready for

[38:46] that 2028 timeframe.

[38:48] And now I'm gonna pass it off to Dave

[38:49] and he's gonna talk more specifically about

[38:51] what the need drain line will do.

[38:53] Yes. So the Needham dewatering drainage line consists

[38:57] of approximately 1,250 linear feet

[39:01] of 36 inch diameter pipeline.

[39:04] It starts at our Highland Avenue

[39:06] I 95 Northeast Cloverleaf shaft site

[39:09] and crosses underneath the I 95 Highway ramps

[39:13] and then falls along Brook Road, Arlington Road,

[39:16] makes a turn on Charles Street

[39:17] and then turns into the 1 63

[39:20] Highland Avenue private property to

[39:23] where our outfall location will be

[39:24] at the bank of the Charles River.

[39:26] When you say falls along, do you mean under Underground?

[39:29] Underground, thank you. Yes.

[39:32] The purpose is to discharge treated construction water

[39:36] during South Tunnel construction.

[39:38] It will also be the point where we discharge the water used

[39:41] for disinfection flushing

[39:43] and commissioning at the completion

[39:44] of South Tunnel Construction.

[39:46] And it's the low point for the South tunnel system.

[39:48] So in the future, if we need to take the tunnel offline

[39:51] for maintenance, inspection

[39:52] or repair, we would un water the tunnel at this location.

[39:56] So on the next few slides, I'm gonna walk you

[39:59] through the alignment, go over the construction methods

[40:02] and our work hours.

[40:04] Let's have question before go. Yeah.

[40:06] You say 1 63 Highland is a private Yes.

[40:09] So have you already had discussion,

[40:10] I'm guessing with them or?

[40:11] Yes, we're finalizing our permanent

[40:14] easement through their parking lot. Okay,

[40:15] Thank you.

[40:17] We, so we start at the Highland Avenue Northeast

[40:20] Cloverleaf, where we'll do about 150 feet

[40:24] of trenchless construction underneath the I 95 ramp.

[40:27] This is to not impact the traffic on the ramp.

[40:31] We're anticipating constructing this through pipe jacking.

[40:34] It's a figure on the bottom left hand of the slide.

[40:37] We are anticipating this work will be done during the day.

[40:42] Moving on to the next slide please.

[40:45] This is our alignment within the Needham right of way.

[40:49] So there's about 850 linear feet of cut

[40:52] and cover construction in Brook Road,

[40:55] Arlington and Charles Street.

[40:57] We will construct the work

[40:58] and stages to reduce our footprint in our impact on the

[41:02] surrounding area with discussions between DPW

[41:06] engineering and the police.

[41:08] And given it's a dense commercial area,

[41:11] we think night work would be the least impactful to buts.

[41:15] And there are Needham sewer mains running parallel

[41:19] to our proposed drainage line in Brook

[41:21] Road and Charles Street.

[41:23] So we will rehabilitate or replace those.

[41:28] Next slide please.

[41:30] So just, can I just ask Yes,

[41:31] this is gonna be in place throughout

[41:33] the entirety of the project.

[41:34] So this is all gonna be fixed to standard, like

[41:39] the regular Needham standard after the tunnel's in place?

[41:43] Yes, yes.

[41:44] And timeline,

[41:46] how long will the trenching take Brooke Road to?

[41:49] So our target is

[41:52] to start construction in the spring of 2027.

[41:55] Okay. And reaching substantial completion by spring of 2028

[41:59] that recognizes Needham Street moratorium in the winter.

[42:03] Okay. Okay. So we're targeting one construction

[42:06] season. Okay,

[42:07] Nice.

[42:08] We got a slide coming up on that. Yeah, sorry.

[42:10] Next slide please. And when we turn onto

[42:15] the private property, 1 63 Highland Avenue,

[42:18] we have about 250 feet of cut

[42:20] and cover construction, installing our drain line leading up

[42:23] to our outfall that will be on the bank of Charles River.

[42:26] We'll have a temporary coffer dam for construction

[42:30] and then the excavation will be

[42:32] conducted from the riverbank.

[42:33] The work on the private property will be

[42:35] during daytime hours.

[42:37] Next slide please. At the 1 63 Highland

[42:42] Avenue alignment, we cross

[42:44] below a Needham 12 inch sewer main.

[42:48] We will remove

[42:49] and replace the portion

[42:51] of the sewer Maine from the manhole at 1 63 Highland Avenue

[42:55] to the next manhole downstream at 60 Charles Street.

[42:59] It's about 300 linear feet of sewer.

[43:03] This work will take place within the town sewer easement

[43:06] and the work hours will be during the day.

[43:09] Next slide please. Upon completion

[43:13] of our work in the right of way,

[43:15] we will pave throughout the limits

[43:17] of disturbance, curb to curb.

[43:18] You can see it on the figure in the green shading.

[43:22] Next slide please. So, coordination

[43:26] with Needham, we've met with Needham, DPW

[43:30] and engineering to review our 60

[43:33] and 90% contract packages.

[43:36] And then in April we met with DPW Engineering police

[43:40] and fire to go over our construction zone safety plans

[43:44] and our proposed hours.

[43:46] And then for outreach, we held a public information session

[43:50] for Abutters to the alignment.

[43:52] Our designer distributed notices door to door.

[43:55] And then we had a session on July 16th.

[43:58] And then we are presenting at the Conservation Commission

[44:02] hearing for our notice of intent on Thursday.

[44:05] Next slide please. So here's our schedule.

[44:10] We are targeting going to bid this fall with the goal

[44:13] of onboarding a contractor in late fall, early winter,

[44:17] and starting construction in the 2027 construction season

[44:21] with the target of having the drain line ready for use

[44:25] for a South tunnel contractor when they come on board in the

[44:28] spring or summer of 2028.

[44:31] And with that next slide please,

[44:32] I'll hand it over to Carmine.

[44:34] Alright, so this is a contact page.

[44:37] We have a robust web webpage for the Tunnel,

[44:40] pro Tunnel program.

[44:42] Once you get on that tunnel tunnel program, you'll see

[44:46] that it has a table of contacts,

[44:48] introduction about the program, community updates,

[44:52] frequently asked questions, resources, contact us.

[44:54] This will navigate in there, answer many questions.

[44:57] As you can see the community update,

[44:59] that's where we find the Needham.

[45:00] I'll notice there's any work that's in particular to need.

[45:03] And then other communities have the same set up.

[45:06] It's pretty user friendly.

[45:08] Then we have ways to contact us

[45:10] through the tunnel info@mwa.com.

[45:12] Or you can contact myself at com, maria@mwa.com

[45:16] and tell us how wonderful job we're doing.

[45:19] Wow. Excellent.

[45:22] That's it. All right.

[45:25] What questions or thoughts

[45:29] or discussion points do we have? Kevin, you wanna start?

[45:32] Sure. Okay.

[45:37] You talked about this is the lowest site in the, in the,

[45:41] so you would de-water from the Needham site.

[45:44] And this would be used not just for construction,

[45:47] but if you ever had to, if

[45:48] We ever had to maintain the tunnel in the future.

[45:50] Okay. Yeah. It gives us a way to,

[45:51] to release some water if we need to.

[45:53] Thanks. So, you know the tunnel, like our existing tunnels,

[45:56] they've been in service since the 1950s

[45:57] and we haven't been able to take them outta line.

[45:59] Sometimes you wanna be able to take the water out

[46:01] so you can go inside and inspect them to make sure

[46:03] that they're not, there's no cracks

[46:05] or something that you need to fix.

[46:06] Okay. So it's for that purpose.

[46:08] So it's very, very rarely that we'd have to do it,

[46:10] but we're constructing the pipeline for construction.

[46:13] The idea would be to leave it in place so

[46:15] that when in the future, if we needed

[46:16] to, we could use it for that purpose.

[46:17] If we ever had to release some water

[46:18] to do some future inspection.

[46:20] Okay. It would be all be permitted, you know,

[46:22] every time we used it we'd have to get for the right kind

[46:24] of permits and we notify the town every,

[46:26] all sorts of notices like that. Alright.

[46:29] Can you explain a coffer dam to me?

[46:31] Sure. Yeah. It, so to construct in the river, you know,

[46:33] the water's flowing by,

[46:35] so coffer dam basically creates a little bit of a dam Okay.

[46:38] So that they can construct inside there.

[46:40] So it'd be constructing within the dry. Okay.

[46:42] So they can get that out outlet outfall pipe

[46:45] and then they can backfill that properly

[46:46] and restore the, the slope so

[46:48] that all can be done in the dry.

[46:49] Okay. And they'll pull the, the copper dam out

[46:52] and then the water will be restored.

[46:53] Okay. And then best guess, during construction,

[46:56] how much water do you imagine is going through this pipe?

[47:00] And we, and the Charles River is basically a plume going

[47:03] across the river of like thousands of cubic feet of

[47:07] Whatever.

[47:08] Yeah, no, I think, you know, we have the, the

[47:09] for during construction.

[47:10] Yeah. The flow rate that's coming construction.

[47:12] Dave, you, you've got the number, I think it's

[47:14] 5 million gallons a day. Yeah.

[47:16] So we need to permit this through DEP

[47:19] and EPA through their Nip DS permits.

[47:22] I've heard of that. So what we did

[47:24] for the Metro West Water supply tunnel was

[47:26] 5 million gallons per day.

[47:28] Okay. That's what we'll target perverting for our tunnel.

[47:32] That would be unmitigated.

[47:34] So the target would be

[47:36] to mitigate the water and flow into the tunnel.

[47:38] So you're discharging less than that rate.

[47:41] By mitigation mean, how much is that grouting

[47:43] and probing grouting inside the tunnel. Okay. How

[47:45] Much is that?

[47:46] I mean, what's that look like? 5 million gallons?

[47:52] It's a good Amount. What amount

[47:53] would you even compare that to?

[47:54] I don't know. I'm a tank At

[47:56] The aquarium inside the tunnel.

[47:57] You know the of 5 million gallons inside the tunnel? Yeah.

[48:00] You, you'd be able to walk through it.

[48:01] It'd be down at the surface.

[48:03] The contractor will pick that up into a pipe.

[48:04] The pipe's probably on the order of six

[48:07] to 12 inch diameter, something like that. Okay.

[48:10] Alright. And then this pipe is a

[48:12] storm drain, essentially.

[48:13] So it's flowing by gravity. So the pipe itself here is 36

[48:16] inch, but it's could be flowing by gravity,

[48:17] like it's open channel flow. Okay.

[48:19] And then finally, I'm sorry, the section of sewer

[48:24] to be replaced along Charles Street.

[48:27] Thank you. But why

[48:31] So Oh, go Ahead.

[48:32] Along the Charles River Bank, so that's vitrified Clay pipe.

[48:36] Okay. So that was constructed well over 50 years ago

[48:41] and it's a very brittle pipe.

[48:44] So just by crossing underneath it,

[48:46] we are going to impact that

[48:48] Pipe.

[48:49] Okay, sure. On that note, can I just follow up?

[48:52] You said, I think you said 300 feet.

[48:54] 300 feet. That sounds like a, a lot at once.

[48:58] How's that gonna impact the sewer service for the area?

[49:02] So we would work, well we've been working with DPW,

[49:05] we would have to bypass the sewer from manhole to manhole,

[49:08] but that 300 feet is dictated

[49:10] by the nearest manhole upstream, which is at 1 63 Highland.

[49:14] And the next one downstream, which is at 60 Charles Street.

[49:17] Okay. So if we tried to do a connection closer than

[49:21] that 300 feet, we might not be able to get a good connection

[49:24] to that brittle clay pipe.

[49:25] Sure. I guess I'm just wondering

[49:26] what the interruption will be for those commercial

[49:29] and residential customers downstream from the,

[49:31] There, there won't be any interruption during the bypass.

[49:33] They'll pump out of the upstream manhole discharge

[49:35] in the downstream manhole.

[49:36] Okay. So they won't notice any,

[49:38] won't notice any interruption flow. Yep.

[49:40] Excellent. Did you have more?

[49:44] I thought that's enough. Alright, interrupt.

[49:45] Okay. Okay, Josh,

[49:48] Just one question.

[49:49] It sounded like, so this water pipe is gonna be very close

[49:52] to the, the Needham sewer pipe.

[49:54] And is that the reason the 300 feet that,

[49:58] that the Needham sewer pipe will have to be replaced?

[50:02] So, well we're, we're crossing the, the need

[50:04] that 300 feet we're crossing.

[50:06] So that's the, the brittle pipe

[50:08] that Dave's talking about. That's

[50:10] Along the bank.

[50:11] That's along the bank. Yeah. And then

[50:11] one, the other ones are close.

[50:12] Within the trench, you have to create a trench

[50:14] to create the 36 inch pipe.

[50:16] There's other sewers that are close by.

[50:18] So we're expecting that we might have

[50:20] to impact those when we're installing trench

[50:22] box to, to get through that. So

[50:23] If the town ever has to maintain our own sewer pipe,

[50:26] Would it impact this MWRA pipe?

[50:30] No. No. That's why we're providing the space

[50:32] and then restoring it so that the,

[50:33] the pipes will have sufficient separation distances

[50:36] so that they can be maintained.

[50:37] Thank you.

[50:38] Great, bill? I'm good. Thanks.

[50:39] Very interesting and detailed. Thank you.

[50:42] All right. Kathy, anything? No questions.

[50:48] Okay. I just have one question. It's about noise.

[50:54] I can see that you've thought through

[50:56] the daytime versus nighttime work,

[51:01] but this is, this is a reasonably small area both

[51:05] with commercial customers and,

[51:06] and residential neighborhoods just outside the perimeter.

[51:10] So I guess I'm just wondering,

[51:14] I'm not really clear on the scale of the disruption

[51:18] that these machines will cause.

[51:20] I just, I guess I just wanna check in on how

[51:24] Yeah. So

[51:24] If, if it's gonna be a destruction for those folks.

[51:27] It, I don't, no, it won't be.

[51:29] It's typical pipeline construction in the streets.

[51:31] So you'll see it many times. You know, they'll have a,

[51:33] a trench that they have to excavate.

[51:35] Sure. The pipe is 36 inch diameter, so that's three feet.

[51:38] But it will be to what, 10 to 15 feet? 10 to 15 feet deep.

[51:42] And when they bury the pipe and then they backfill the pipe

[51:44] and they, they move it along.

[51:45] So they'll be excavating a section

[51:47] and moving their way along the 1200 feet.

[51:49] Okay. Most of the areas, industrial, commercial kind

[51:52] of area, the specific streets we're going through,

[51:55] there's no residential homes

[51:57] or anything in that along that route.

[51:59] And that's when we talked to this, the town

[52:01] and the, the police and the feeling of doing

[52:04] that work at night, probably better

[52:05] because then the industry, the commercials are open

[52:08] during the day, so it won't impact them during the daytime.

[52:10] We'll be there at nighttime when they're not working. Okay.

[52:13] Alright. Great. Well appreciated.

[52:18] Sounds like you've answered all

[52:20] of our questions, which is great.

[52:22] I'm sure you will get more from the public.

[52:27] So, so with that maybe we'll swap teams or add teams.

[52:31] Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[52:44] All right. Welcome.

[52:48] Thank You. Just two. Okay. Just two. All right.

[52:51] So we'll start with introductions.

[52:53] I'm Steve Este, I'm interim executive director

[52:56] at the MWRA.

[52:58] Colleen Zi, director of Environmental

[52:59] and Regulatory Affairs for MWA. Thank

[53:01] You for, for being here.

[53:02] We're here this evening. There's been a lot

[53:04] of publicity about our combined sewer overflow plan update.

[53:07] Yes. You've probably heard from

[53:10] various folks over the many months we thought it's, we're,

[53:13] we're offering an opportunity to chat

[53:16] with communities about the plan,

[53:18] provide some clear information from our perspective about

[53:22] what the plan does and doesn't do.

[53:24] We are in the middle of a comment period.

[53:27] Colleen, I'll talk a little

[53:28] bit more about that in the middle.

[53:30] And we're looking for folks to, you know, provide sort

[53:33] of fact-based comment from your perspective to the,

[53:37] to the DEP and EPA so

[53:39] that they make a good decision coming out.

[53:41] It's a very expensive plan. Community share is pretty large.

[53:46] And the delta between the plan that's on the table

[53:49] and what some are recommending is very substantial

[53:54] and substantial increment for the, each of the towns

[53:58] that are paying both sur bills.

[54:00] So we wanted to be careful to make sure that folks are aware

[54:05] of this while there's an opportunity to comment so

[54:09] that we don't have a situation the

[54:11] after DEP has locked us down

[54:15] and then folks realize the expense and the disruption.

[54:19] And there are, that's, that's sort

[54:21] of the wrong way to do public policy.

[54:23] Excellent. Best to have him pretty early.

[54:24] Yeah, we appreciate that. And so before you begin,

[54:28] 'cause I know you have slides, can you just remind us of

[54:31] how long the comment period lasts

[54:33] and then what's the decision making timeline?

[54:35] Absolutely. Because I,

[54:37] I think people will be wondering about that at the outset

[54:39] and I want them to be able to pay attention

[54:40] Here. No, that's process.

[54:41] I don't first to our notes. Okay, great.

[54:44] So actually we are in the middle of the common period.

[54:46] So we submitted in April 30th

[54:48] and comments were due September 30th.

[54:51] We actually just got an extension from DEP in response

[54:53] to some requests from the watershed associations.

[54:56] So October 30th, October is the deadline for comments.

[55:01] And we are, and I'll share the website for the program.

[55:05] There are multiple ways to comment.

[55:08] We can accept, we have a portal that's online.

[55:11] We have email, regular snail mail to the MWA address

[55:16] as well as two public hearings

[55:18] that will be held in September where people could come

[55:21] and get verbal public comment as well.

[55:23] Okay, great. And then, so the deadline

[55:28] for comments is, is October 30th,

[55:30] but then there's some period when, so

[55:32] We will That's right. Decision

[55:33] Making occurs.

[55:34] So we will have a final plan

[55:35] that will be due in spring of 2027.

[55:38] So we'll be accepting comments from the public.

[55:40] We'll also get comments from DEP

[55:42] and EPA, which will inform the final plan.

[55:46] Okay. That gets submitted.

[55:48] And then when that gets submitted to EP

[55:49] and DEP in the spring, it will simultaneously be going

[55:53] through the MEPA process.

[55:54] So the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act,

[55:56] which will offer another opportunity for public comment.

[55:59] Okay. Great. Alright, thank you. Of course.

[56:03] And so actually before we get into the formal

[56:05] presentation, but certainly please bring the slides up if

[56:07] you can, just taking,

[56:10] I guess a step back in making sure people are on the same

[56:13] page with what A CSO is for those

[56:15] that might not be familiar either here or in the public.

[56:20] Many older cities in the US have a single pipe

[56:24] that takes both stormwater, so runoff from streets and veils

[56:28] and all that, as well as the sanitary flows into one pipe,

[56:32] it was put in place to offer kind of a relief mechanism so

[56:36] that there were no backups into homes businesses.

[56:39] The flip side of that is in larger storm events,

[56:44] you can have that discharge into the receiving water body,

[56:47] which will be, and I do wanna stress

[56:49] that this is a combination of storm water

[56:51] and sanitary flows.

[56:52] It is not just straight raw sewage going

[56:55] into the receiving water body.

[56:56] Just to make sure, so as I talk

[56:58] through this presentation tonight about the combined sewer

[57:01] overflows, use the acronym CSO, just keep in mind

[57:04] that is a combination of both stormwater

[57:07] as well as sanitary flows.

[57:10] Like many decisions in infrastructure

[57:12] and land use planning made decades ago, we are living

[57:15] with the consequences of that

[57:17] and looking to improve those situations.

[57:21] So the plan that we lay out tonight that's currently in

[57:25] for public comment does just that it improves water quality,

[57:30] reduces the discharges of CSOs.

[57:33] So if we can go to the next slide please.

[57:38] So just starting with a review of what's been accomplished

[57:42] for CSO Control to date and where we are today.

[57:46] MWA and is for CSO member communities.

[57:48] So, Boston, Chelsea, Cambridge,

[57:49] and Somerville have been working

[57:51] to reduce CSOs in the region for decades.

[57:56] Under the Boston Harbor Project, which most

[57:57] of you're probably familiar with, the long,

[57:59] the first long-term control plan was implemented,

[58:01] 35 separate projects,

[58:04] CSO control projects highlighted in the figure

[58:06] to the right little tough to see at this scale.

[58:09] These are all completed by 2015,

[58:12] but the work really hasn't stopped.

[58:15] MWA along with the CSO communities continue

[58:18] to implement CSO reduction projects.

[58:21] Overall investment to date on CSO control is over one

[58:24] and a half billion dollars.

[58:27] Next slide please. So over the past

[58:32] 35 plus years, CSOs have been reduced by approximately 88%

[58:37] from the late eighties.

[58:39] And 94% of what is still discharged

[58:42] as CSO is actually treated prior to discharge.

[58:45] It gets disinfection and then dechlorination

[58:47] before it gets discharged to a water body.

[58:49] So there is a bacteria removal for that

[58:53] as shown on the bar chart chart on the right, the volume

[58:57] of CSOs has dramatically decreased,

[59:00] resulting in significant improvements

[59:01] to water quality in the metro Boston area.

[59:05] Next slide please. So the next piece

[59:09] of the kinda CO story,

[59:11] we've been operating under approved variances since 2004,

[59:15] the A Life Brook, mystic River,

[59:17] and Charles River Water, water bodies.

[59:20] These variances are issued by DEP and EPA

[59:23] and they allow CSO discharges to continue while the work

[59:27] to address those and reduce the volumes also continues.

[59:31] The most recent variance requires an updated CSO control

[59:34] plan, which is what we're presenting tonight.

[59:38] Those that requirement was alternatives

[59:41] to evaluate alternatives up to including full elimination

[59:44] of CSO discharges to the three water bodies here.

[59:48] Next slide please. So, as I mentioned, a lot

[59:52] of work has been done.

[59:55] A significant number of O falls have been closed.

[59:57] Those are indicated by the orange dot with the X through it.

[1:00:02] Those are CSOs that have been closed.

[1:00:05] The updated CSSO control plan is really focused on the

[1:00:08] yellow dots on this plan, which are the L falls

[1:00:10] that can continue to discharge to the free water bodies.

[1:00:14] So again, a lot of progress has been made to date,

[1:00:17] but still some work to be done.

[1:00:20] So MWA is partnered with the city

[1:00:22] of Somerville and the city of Cambridge.

[1:00:24] On this initiative, we submitted a joint plan

[1:00:27] to DEP and EPA.

[1:00:28] So that was coming from the three partners in one plan.

[1:00:33] Next slide please. So looking at the draft plan, the plan

[1:00:37] as it currently stands in its draft form,

[1:00:39] it does account for climate change.

[1:00:42] More specifically, the impact

[1:00:43] of future increases in precipitation.

[1:00:46] We know we're gonna get higher annual rainfall

[1:00:48] totals, more intense storms.

[1:00:50] This plan is the first in the nation that we know of to

[1:00:54] estimate the future rainfall events.

[1:00:57] Most CSOs plans look

[1:01:00] to the past when they're estimating their rainfall events.

[1:01:02] We are looking into the future to mitigate those.

[1:01:06] This plan eliminates CSOs in the 2050 typical year,

[1:01:10] which I will note does include a sizable over three inch

[1:01:14] storm and a 24 hour event.

[1:01:15] So it does have some larger storms in it,

[1:01:17] and it does reduce the volumes in the larger

[1:01:20] storm events over that.

[1:01:22] It also incorporates green stormwater infrastructure or GSI.

[1:01:27] Next slide please. So the partners evaluated

[1:01:32] 39 alternatives across the three water bodies across

[1:01:35] different levels of control.

[1:01:38] And that included a combination of tools

[1:01:40] at the different outfalls.

[1:01:42] And I'll note that the evaluation really focused on

[1:01:45] balancing the important

[1:01:47] and sometimes competing considerations like the ones

[1:01:51] listed on the slide.

[1:01:53] I'll note though that the resulting water quality benefits

[1:01:55] from the work and the protection of existing open

[1:01:59] and recreational space,

[1:02:00] which we already know is really limited in these areas, were

[1:02:04] key considerations through the evaluation.

[1:02:08] So next slide please.

[1:02:11] So looking at the Alewife brook,

[1:02:13] and you can go to the next Thank you.

[1:02:15] So this is the recommended alternative in the Alewife brook.

[1:02:20] There's a total of six outfalls owned by Cambridge,

[1:02:22] Somerville, and MWA that currently discharge to the alewife.

[1:02:27] The draft plan that was submitted includes a combination

[1:02:30] of CSO control tools at those different outfalls,

[1:02:33] including storage tanks, storage conduits,

[1:02:35] and sewer separation.

[1:02:37] I will note, as you look at the durations on these plans,

[1:02:40] these are really kind of high level planning estimates of

[1:02:43] what it would take to construct these different projects.

[1:02:46] They're not intended to be timelines from today.

[1:02:49] There's still a bit of work to do

[1:02:51] before we get to that point, but I will note,

[1:02:54] because these plans do include a series of smaller projects,

[1:02:57] there's the opportunity

[1:02:58] that we can get some interim benefits.

[1:03:01] So as individual projects come online, we're seeing some of

[1:03:04] that reduction in the CSOs while other projects are

[1:03:07] still in the works.

[1:03:10] Next slide please. So looking at the Mr. River. Thank you.

[1:03:15] So there's actually only one outfall

[1:03:17] to the upper Mystic River and it's jointly controlled by NRE

[1:03:20] and the city of Somerville.

[1:03:22] The draft plan here includes a combination

[1:03:25] of sewer separation and a really large storage tank

[1:03:28] that would be located in the parking lot of the assembly row

[1:03:32] shopping center for those that are

[1:03:33] familiar with that location.

[1:03:36] Next slide please. And you can actually skip

[1:03:39] to the alternative.

[1:03:41] And so this is lastly looking at the Charles River.

[1:03:44] Again, this is a combination of multiple outfalls.

[1:03:47] The CSO controls here are a combination of sewer separation

[1:03:50] and storage tanks, both MWA

[1:03:53] and the city of Cambridge control out falls

[1:03:56] discharging to the Charles River.

[1:03:59] It Ms. Probably noting that all

[1:04:00] of those CSO outlaw falls are downstream

[1:04:04] of the Watertown Dam.

[1:04:05] Yeah, correct. For a sense of geography.

[1:04:08] Thank you. That's right. That's the next slide.

[1:04:13] So this is just a high level summary

[1:04:15] of the three alternatives that we just looked at.

[1:04:18] Total cost estimated to be about $1.3 billion.

[1:04:24] And I will note

[1:04:25] before we go to the next slide, as noted earlier,

[1:04:28] with the implementation of these projects

[1:04:30] as currently proposed in the draft plan, we do see

[1:04:33] that elimination of the CSOs in the 2050 typical year,

[1:04:37] the reduction in the larger events,

[1:04:40] and as compared to the projects

[1:04:42] or looking at kind of the higher levels of control,

[1:04:44] those five year, 25 year storm events,

[1:04:48] this plan offers some additional

[1:04:51] benefits in the earlier reductions in the CSOs, right,

[1:04:54] bringing those smaller projects online.

[1:04:56] So we're starting to see those kind of interim benefits,

[1:04:59] less disruptive construction impacts, including

[1:05:02] construction noise, less truck traffic as compared to some

[1:05:05] of the higher alternatives.

[1:05:07] And then the reduced loss of the open space.

[1:05:09] I mentioned this earlier, including Parkland, both

[1:05:12] during construction, but also

[1:05:14] for the new permanent infrastructure that's going going in,

[1:05:17] which is a high priority in trying

[1:05:18] to preserve some of that open space.

[1:05:23] You know? Next slide please.

[1:05:26] So looking at the costs,

[1:05:28] this slide focuses on just the MWA share of that

[1:05:32] $1.3 billion.

[1:05:33] So the MWA share is right now estimated at $763 million.

[1:05:38] The remainder would be allocated to the city

[1:05:41] of Cambridge and the city of Somerville.

[1:05:44] Note that the costs that we've been talking about going

[1:05:46] through the presentation are in today's dollars,

[1:05:49] not in future, but when we escalate those costs

[1:05:52] by the two point half percent annually,

[1:05:54] which is our standard for the next 15 years

[1:05:57] or so, that $763 million today

[1:06:01] becomes just over a billion dollars in future spending.

[1:06:07] And I'll note, I'm de borrows for almost all

[1:06:10] of our construction projects,

[1:06:11] and we would do the same for the work associated with this.

[1:06:15] So we're issuing long-term debt

[1:06:16] for these construction projects.

[1:06:18] The total rate payer costs, then

[1:06:21] that 7 63 turned into 1 billion goes into $2 billion.

[1:06:25] When you incorporate the interest on the long-term debt,

[1:06:29] that 2 billion is what's shown

[1:06:31] as the green line on this chart.

[1:06:33] So that's the draft plan as currently submitted.

[1:06:36] As you move up in levels of control, the cost

[1:06:38] of horse increase that top level at the 5.6 billion is

[1:06:42] that 25 year storm event.

[1:06:44] It's the largest event that we looked at.

[1:06:46] So using the same methodology

[1:06:48] that 2 billion is 5.6 billion in the larger storms,

[1:06:53] these costs will be paid for by the MWA sewer communities,

[1:06:56] including Needham, right?

[1:06:58] And including Chelsea Quincy, all of the 43

[1:07:02] MDA sewer communities would partake in these costs.

[1:07:06] And we recognize that these sewer rate increases will be in

[1:07:11] addition to other financial pressures

[1:07:12] that the communities I'm sure including Needham,

[1:07:16] are already facing the households that pay these bills.

[1:07:19] So the MWA advisory board

[1:07:21] who represents our member communities,

[1:07:24] they created a dashboard that allows individual communities

[1:07:27] to see what the impacts, what those increased costs are

[1:07:30] for each of the levels of control that we looked at.

[1:07:32] The three plans looking out to 2072, which is the tail end

[1:07:37] of the projected debt service using that dashboard.

[1:07:42] I'll give you guys kind of the bottom line of it tonight,

[1:07:44] or the punchline using the head dashboard.

[1:07:47] NEEDHAM'S cost for the draft plan

[1:07:49] that is currently under review is about $28 million over

[1:07:54] between FY 29 and 2072.

[1:07:58] So that's for just the plan that's currently on the table

[1:08:01] to go to the highest level of control, which is

[1:08:03] that 25 year storm event

[1:08:05] that is about $85 million to need for Needham.

[1:08:08] Yeah. So adults are about $57 million from that

[1:08:13] zero CSOs in the typical year up to that,

[1:08:15] that 25 year storm event.

[1:08:20] And do you know, sorry, may I ask a couple questions?

[1:08:22] Do you know, you know, in the peak year

[1:08:25] or the average year, what the impact would be

[1:08:29] to a typical rate payer? So

[1:08:32] That one's a little bit harder

[1:08:34] and I don't know, Steve, if you,

[1:08:35] I think there's a couple different

[1:08:36] ways of thinking about that.

[1:08:38] Each community needs to take their piece.

[1:08:41] And so the advisory board's chart shows

[1:08:44] how much the incremental cost would be to need them,

[1:08:47] for example, in each year.

[1:08:49] Each community needs to take that

[1:08:50] and assume how that's going to move from their

[1:08:55] rate structure to their rate payers,

[1:08:57] including any other costs.

[1:08:59] It's a fairly substantial sum of money.

[1:09:01] The hard thing on all these things is you can always find a

[1:09:04] way to make it a tiny little number,

[1:09:06] but it's one way or the other.

[1:09:08] It's a large number.

[1:09:10] It's a couple billion dollars across the region on top

[1:09:13] of all of the other projects we're working on, one

[1:09:17] of the things that we've heard some of the advocates say is,

[1:09:21] well, deer Island's being paid off.

[1:09:23] So of course you have a lot of money.

[1:09:25] Well, that would be true if in fact

[1:09:29] what you built in the late 1990s could go forever

[1:09:33] without being maintained.

[1:09:35] We're in the midst right now of beginning to make sort

[1:09:38] of major renovation projects on Deer Island.

[1:09:40] We have a $300 million project looking at the clarifiers

[1:09:45] that the treatment vessels, there's a series of projects

[1:09:48] that are between two and $300 million on Deer Island

[1:09:51] over the next few years.

[1:09:53] So basically the bills

[1:09:56] that we paid back to build the Boston Harbor project

[1:10:00] have been mostly paid off,

[1:10:02] but we're spending actually a pretty much the same amount

[1:10:05] of money over the next decade or so.

[1:10:07] Keeping that facility running, keeping Boston Harbor clean.

[1:10:11] The same thing is true for facilities upstream of that

[1:10:14] and in at your level, at each individual community,

[1:10:17] there's continued investments in the wastewater pipes

[1:10:20] to keep them from degrading

[1:10:22] and bringing more clean water into those pipes, sending it

[1:10:26] to Dry Island and raising your local

[1:10:28] share of the total cost.

[1:10:29] So that's a lot of money on the table. Yeah.

[1:10:32] Can I ask another question? I, I guess I see this

[1:10:34] as a public benefit project.

[1:10:36] Like it, it doesn't benefit only the communities within

[1:10:39] the MWRA system.

[1:10:40] So, I mean, I almost see Needham as a much of a beneficiary

[1:10:44] as Worcester, but

[1:10:46] because they're not part of the MWR system,

[1:10:48] they're not being, they don't bear any

[1:10:51] of the costs, correct?

[1:10:53] Yeah, I mean we would, it would be wonderful in a,

[1:10:57] in a world in which the Commonwealth

[1:10:59] or the US government felt

[1:11:01] that this was a high enough priority for them

[1:11:03] to not just require it,

[1:11:06] but to, the reason we're doing the project is it's required

[1:11:09] by the state and federal government,

[1:11:11] but it was a high enough priority for them

[1:11:13] to not just require that the 43 communities do it,

[1:11:16] but contribute to the cost.

[1:11:18] Most of Deer Island was paid for by the cities

[1:11:21] and towns that fund the MWRA sewer district.

[1:11:25] The same thing is, is likely to be true here.

[1:11:29] I would say if you could send us a letter on this plan,

[1:11:32] you might wanna also wanna send a letter to your, your

[1:11:36] Senators and representatives and suggest that they do that.

[1:11:41] The state provides us a token payment each year,

[1:11:45] a few hundred thousand dollars towards

[1:11:48] our almost a billion dollar water and sewer budget.

[1:11:53] You've got a couple of more comprehensive

[1:11:57] plans here on the table.

[1:11:59] Can you help us understand the qualitative difference

[1:12:02] between the plan that costs

[1:12:04] well will cost Needham $28 million versus the plan

[1:12:09] that will cost Needham $85 million?

[1:12:12] Like what, what is, what are we getting

[1:12:14] for those, don't you?

[1:12:16] The technical one? Yes. Yeah. So those larger,

[1:12:20] Because we do have, we do, we have had folks come in

[1:12:23] to advocate for the larger plans.

[1:12:24] So I wanna understand like what are we giving up? Yeah.

[1:12:27] Or what are, what are we purchasing if we

[1:12:29] Yep, no, that's absolutely right.

[1:12:31] So the larger, so that $85 million plan is

[1:12:34] for the upper level, that's the 25 year

[1:12:36] level of control, right?

[1:12:37] So in a 25 year event, you would have no CSO discharges

[1:12:41] to any of the three water bodies to do that.

[1:12:44] We are looking at a large deep tunnel

[1:12:48] that would collect the flows and kind of carry it.

[1:12:51] So that's where some of that large cost comes from, right?

[1:12:53] You're building extremely large infrastructure to do this.

[1:12:57] But I will say even with that, I know

[1:13:00] 'cause one of the talking points, which is the, you know,

[1:13:02] fishable swimmable days in the Charles for example,

[1:13:06] that doesn't change as you go up in the levels of control

[1:13:09] because until

[1:13:12] or may have heard sewer separation as one of the kind

[1:13:15] of gold standards as well is until the stormwater

[1:13:19] piece is really taken care of

[1:13:21] and treated, you aren't gonna see any additional days

[1:13:25] of swimming in the Charles

[1:13:26] because every storm event, storm water, which is,

[1:13:29] has pollutants in it, right?

[1:13:30] It's not clean that goes in every storm event.

[1:13:33] Whereas a CSO is discharged periodically

[1:13:36] depending on how large a storm was.

[1:13:37] So I think from a, taking the step back from a,

[1:13:40] what you get from it,

[1:13:43] you may see less CSO discharges in the ongoing events,

[1:13:47] but you aren't gonna see that increase to water quality

[1:13:49] to make that so bowl fishable the entire year

[1:13:51] until you rarely start treating the storm water

[1:13:55] balloons that go into it.

[1:13:57] So that was the kind of technical part.

[1:13:58] Yeah. One of the, one

[1:14:00] of the difficulties in being the folks who have

[1:14:02] to engineer the projects is you're required

[1:14:04] to actually look in great detail at all of the issues

[1:14:09] and think of it comprehensively.

[1:14:11] So as I think about it, if we,

[1:14:15] if over the next 30 years the communities in the,

[1:14:18] the 35 communities that feed into state

[1:14:21] of Charles River all spent many tens of billions of dollars

[1:14:25] to com completely treat the thousands of stormwater outfalls

[1:14:30] that go into the Charles at

[1:14:33] that point then not having the CSO volume in a larger

[1:14:36] storm would yield benefit.

[1:14:38] But until all of those storm water

[1:14:41] dirty storm water discharges into the river are res are

[1:14:44] cleaned up, you're still on every single storm going

[1:14:49] to have pollution in the river,

[1:14:50] which results in it not being meeting, meeting the fishing,

[1:14:53] the swimming bowl standards.

[1:14:55] Now River does meet swimmable standards on quite a few days

[1:14:58] in the year, but it doesn't meet it

[1:15:00] for any significant rainfall, primarily in most cases

[1:15:03] because of flows that are coming down upstream

[1:15:07] of the Watertown Dam, which are, it's dirtier upstream,

[1:15:11] can causing a lower portion of the river

[1:15:13] to be not meet those standards.

[1:15:16] The river doesn't meet standards after rainfall.

[1:15:20] If this, even on days when the CSOs are all, when

[1:15:23] combined source all heading to Deer Island

[1:15:25] and none of it's making to the river,

[1:15:27] the river's not swimable.

[1:15:29] We really, this is a, I think that it's a, it's a long,

[1:15:33] long, long term issue.

[1:15:35] Nothing we're doing in this plan prohibits us

[1:15:38] or from being able to come back

[1:15:41] at a point when the rivers cleaner

[1:15:43] because of all the storm water and deal with this.

[1:15:46] But it seems like a reasonable effort to reduce the impact

[1:15:50] that the CSOs have on the river

[1:15:52] even without necessarily making it swimmable.

[1:15:57] One of my things I've said at all the meetings is

[1:16:00] folks are saying it's gonna be swimmable.

[1:16:03] They're gonna be in an awkward spot

[1:16:07] when we build whatever project we build.

[1:16:09] And it's not ought

[1:16:11] to be something more than a bumper sticker

[1:16:13] as you're doing these kind of investments.

[1:16:15] Okay. Bill, any questions? No, I'm good. Thank you.

[1:16:21] All right, Kathy. Yes,

[1:16:25] I thank you.

[1:16:26] This has been really helpful and interesting.

[1:16:29] I'm just looking at the list

[1:16:30] of all the different communities

[1:16:31] and I'm wondering how is the cost allocated

[1:16:34] amongst those 35 communities?

[1:16:37] So the, the MWRA sewer charges are based

[1:16:42] primarily on flow to a, a complicated format

[1:16:46] that includes monthly flow averaged over three years,

[1:16:51] peak month flow averaged over three years.

[1:16:55] Some factors for population in each community

[1:16:59] and all the communities.

[1:17:01] We sum all the costs

[1:17:02] and we divide it up by your share of flow, your share

[1:17:05] of population in essence.

[1:17:07] So it's essentially a flow based

[1:17:09] or impact based charge.

[1:17:13] Each community pays their share based on those numbers.

[1:17:18] So in that case, does Needham benefit from having some

[1:17:21] of our water come from our town wealth?

[1:17:25] No. Is wastewater flow waste water,

[1:17:28] waste water flow, of course, yeah.

[1:17:29] Your water bill is lower,

[1:17:31] your water charge from us is lower 'cause you buy less water.

[1:17:34] Yeah, but the sewer flow is

[1:17:35] wastewater is based on wastewater flow.

[1:17:36] We do meter that flow,

[1:17:37] of course that's what leaves the town.

[1:17:39] Okay. We would be happy to over the next couple months

[1:17:43] provide an input your, your staff needs

[1:17:47] as they're thinking about trafficking this

[1:17:49] and getting a letter to you

[1:17:50] to send off any additional information we can provide.

[1:17:53] We'd be happy to do Thank you

[1:17:55] for the opportunity to be here. Certainly.

[1:17:57] And I'll just note there are two more slides in there.

[1:17:59] I don't think they need to be pulled

[1:18:00] up, but you have 'em in your packet.

[1:18:01] It just shows the next steps,

[1:18:03] which we've already touched on and then the project.

[1:18:06] So yeah, so the next slide steps,

[1:18:08] the comment period now is extended to end of October.

[1:18:12] So this is a little bit outdated

[1:18:13] that was fresh off the presses this afternoon.

[1:18:16] And then project implementation going between the, you know,

[1:18:20] say 2027 to the 2050s.

[1:18:21] But noting during that timeframe some

[1:18:23] of the smaller projects will be coming online.

[1:18:26] And then the next slide if you could, is just the,

[1:18:30] has the link to the joint CSO planning site that we share

[1:18:34] with between the three partners

[1:18:37] and folks that are interested in this program can look,

[1:18:39] the draft plan is there, past public meetings are all

[1:18:42] recorded, the slideshows are there.

[1:18:44] So if anybody needs more information

[1:18:45] and certainly we're always happy to answer questions

[1:18:47] And that's where the the, for any cities who wants to

[1:18:50] comment the portal

[1:18:52] to the provide comments electronically is on that site.

[1:18:55] All the ways to comment are there. So.

[1:18:57] Okay. Well we, we appreciate your time.

[1:19:00] This is a very significant project

[1:19:02] Come In here.

[1:19:03] So thank you much

[1:19:09] Madam, if you apologize for having a little

[1:19:12] trouble finding out why this won't go away.

[1:19:14] Okay.

[1:19:20] I give everyone a little extra time to jot it down.

[1:19:25] Ma'am, check. Can I move the consent agenda?

[1:19:28] Please do. Yes. All right. I move the consent agenda

[1:19:31] Second.

[1:19:32] Alright, so we'll

[1:19:37] vote on the consent.

[1:19:38] Kathy, we'll go to you. Yes. Bill? Yes.

[1:19:43] Josh? Yes. Kevin? Yes. And I vote yes as well. Thank you.

[1:19:49] Okay, the next item on our agenda tonight is the local

[1:19:52] initiative program at 1 93 gar,

[1:19:56] the Garden Street Proposal Gardener's

[1:19:59] Nest Condominium project.

[1:20:01] Hello. We're gonna welcome Mrs.

[1:20:06] Toulie. Yes,

[1:20:09] George Junta And is Mary au as well.

[1:20:12] Okay, come on up.

[1:20:17] So it's good to see you all back. Thank you. A joint summer.

[1:20:22] Thank you. Thank for your time today.

[1:20:25] So I will turn it over to you guys to present on

[1:20:30] the project as it stands currently. Alright,

[1:20:32] Great.

[1:20:33] Thank you very much. George Center junior

[1:20:35] attorney representing Mr.

[1:20:38] Oli and his entity that own owns the property is proposing

[1:20:42] this 40 B project.

[1:20:44] And as the board knows,

[1:20:45] 'cause we've been here a couple of times before,

[1:20:47] this is an ongoing process

[1:20:49] and one of the aspects of a lip,

[1:20:51] a local initiative project is

[1:20:54] that it is a cooperative project.

[1:20:56] It essentially is a form almost of a partnership

[1:20:59] between the town and the developer.

[1:21:00] So here we are at the next,

[1:21:03] the next check-in if you will on this project.

[1:21:06] So we last met and discussed this back in April.

[1:21:09] So it's been a little bit of time

[1:21:11] since we last talked about this.

[1:21:13] Since then there's been a couple of things

[1:21:15] that have taken place that directly address some

[1:21:17] of the comments and concerns that have been raised.

[1:21:20] First off, probably most important is the survey has been

[1:21:24] completed, the land survey of the property,

[1:21:26] which we hadn't had before.

[1:21:28] We only had sort of preliminary plans and so on.

[1:21:30] But now the survey has actually been done.

[1:21:32] So we now know the exact dimensions of the property.

[1:21:35] The boundaries have been fixed and most importantly the

[1:21:38] topography has been surveyed.

[1:21:40] So we now have the topography of the property set.

[1:21:43] And with that I'll just mention basically

[1:21:45] it's roughly what we thought.

[1:21:47] That the property is relatively flat

[1:21:49] for about three quarters of the way back ish.

[1:21:51] And then there's a slope basically from there.

[1:21:55] Now in addition there was a wetlands

[1:21:57] delineation that was completed.

[1:21:59] So Mary Trudeau who's here with us this evening, went out

[1:22:02] and flagged the wetlands, the surveyor went

[1:22:04] and I then located where those flags were

[1:22:06] and that's on one of the plans

[1:22:08] that I think you have in your packets.

[1:22:10] So we now know with a reasonable degree of certainty

[1:22:13] where the wetlands line is and that

[1:22:15] therefore informs us where the buffer zone is.

[1:22:18] The two buffer zones, the 50 foot and the a hundred foot.

[1:22:22] We also have advanced our design.

[1:22:25] So the prelim, the design is still not final,

[1:22:27] it's still a bit preliminary but it's been advanced

[1:22:30] and is still in keeping with what you have seen previously.

[1:22:34] But basically the location of the houses

[1:22:37] we're still proposing 10 units in five duplexes.

[1:22:40] But the exact location has changed a bit.

[1:22:43] The shape has changed a bit.

[1:22:45] If you remember on one of the earlier versions there were

[1:22:48] these little sort of cutouts where the garages were

[1:22:50] and those have now been disposed with

[1:22:52] and it's just a flat kind of garage face.

[1:22:55] Instead of having cars have to come in

[1:22:57] and negotiate these little cutout areas,

[1:23:01] we've had discussions with the fire department

[1:23:03] and they have given us feedback that they're looking

[1:23:05] for a 16 to 18 foot clear space to be able

[1:23:10] to get in with their vehicles and equipment.

[1:23:13] And so we've taken that into account when we,

[1:23:15] when we located the houses.

[1:23:18] And then, let's see, yeah,

[1:23:21] and then we've basically just tweaked the design a little

[1:23:23] bit to sort of take into account

[1:23:25] the information that we now have.

[1:23:27] We still, there's still sprinkled, there's still, oh

[1:23:30] and most recently on the fire department

[1:23:32] they have advised us that they would like

[1:23:34] to see the building sprinkled

[1:23:36] and we're perfectly fine with that.

[1:23:37] And so that's something that we'll be incorporating.

[1:23:39] It's not in any of your materials yet

[1:23:41] 'cause we just, that was just learned that recently.

[1:23:43] So we'll incorporate that in

[1:23:44] and that will be a part going forward.

[1:23:47] So as I indicated, the project remains 10 total units in

[1:23:51] five duplexes

[1:23:53] and while it is not a cast in stone standard,

[1:23:58] it has generally been the rule of thumb for the board

[1:24:01] of appeals when they evaluate 40 B projects as well

[1:24:04] as in a general zoning context that you look

[1:24:07] for roughly 16 units per acre as your sort

[1:24:10] of your target maximum density.

[1:24:12] If you do the math based on that, then you wind up

[1:24:15] with this site would support roughly 12 units

[1:24:20] and we are at 10 units below that.

[1:24:22] So we, we still think

[1:24:23] that this is an appropriate size development based on that.

[1:24:26] Now as I said, it's not a cast and stone thing,

[1:24:28] but it has has been a standard that has been used

[1:24:31] to evaluate I think pretty much every 40 B

[1:24:33] that has gone through the board of appeals.

[1:24:34] And certainly a lot of other projects

[1:24:36] that have come through the town as well.

[1:24:39] 30% of the units will, units will be affordable.

[1:24:43] This is something we have now defined

[1:24:45] and that is in excess of the 25%

[1:24:47] that is required by Chapter 40 B.

[1:24:49] So we're going over and above on that.

[1:24:51] Now with the wetlands having been delineated said,

[1:24:54] we now know where the 50 foot

[1:24:55] and the a hundred foot buffer is for the,

[1:24:58] for any board members that aren't aware

[1:25:00] of the way the wetlands bylaw works

[1:25:02] and the way the Wetlands Protection Act works,

[1:25:04] generally speaking, towns have discretion over how much

[1:25:08] they wanna regulate

[1:25:09] and condition work that's done within a

[1:25:11] hundred feet of a wetlands.

[1:25:13] Some towns are, are sort of lenient

[1:25:16] and they let you basically go right up to the line

[1:25:19] and other towns are more strict.

[1:25:20] Needham is on the stricter side of the scale.

[1:25:23] Generally speaking, they don't want your,

[1:25:25] they certainly don't want you touching anything

[1:25:27] within the first 25 feet.

[1:25:28] They really don't like anything within the first 50 feet.

[1:25:30] But then once you get further out, basically sort of,

[1:25:34] you know, 70, 75 feet plus you can do certain work

[1:25:38] but you have to go through a process

[1:25:39] to get an order of conditions from them.

[1:25:42] And so that is something we do anticipate that we will need

[1:25:45] to do and we're comfortable doing that

[1:25:47] and working within the ordinary wetlands program.

[1:25:51] So nothing, so we don't expect anything sort of

[1:25:54] beyond the scope of what any other project

[1:25:56] would necessarily require.

[1:25:57] But we will be going into the buffer zone a bit up

[1:26:00] to about 70 feet from the wellins.

[1:26:02] So there's about 30 feet

[1:26:03] of the buffer we'll be doing some work in.

[1:26:06] And we now know that because of the wetlands, alienation

[1:26:08] and the survey, we also now know based on the

[1:26:13] information from the fire department

[1:26:16] that they want 16 to 18 feet clear.

[1:26:17] We've located the buildings so that the, the separation

[1:26:21] between the wall of the building

[1:26:23] and the property line generally is at least 18 feet,

[1:26:26] but it's really functionally 20 feet.

[1:26:28] So we've got adequate space there.

[1:26:30] So we now know that previously we didn't have a set number

[1:26:33] on that at 20 feet it is well in excess

[1:26:36] of the 14 foot minimum side yard setback in the,

[1:26:39] that applies in the district. So

[1:26:40] It says 18 feet here.

[1:26:42] Are you saying that that's changed to 20

[1:26:44] Feet?

[1:26:45] So it's, it's 18 feet at certain points,

[1:26:46] but like at the garage portions it's 20 feet

[1:26:52] with that and, and with the survey having been complete,

[1:26:54] although we don't have a finished drainage design

[1:26:57] that's still a bit off, we do now have a good idea

[1:27:00] of the topography and the likely grading of the site.

[1:27:03] So we are confident

[1:27:05] and we don't expect needing any waivers

[1:27:08] or any extraordinary relief when it

[1:27:10] comes to stormwater control.

[1:27:11] We think that we'll be able to manage that on site.

[1:27:13] We can't say that for absolute thousand percent certain just

[1:27:17] yet because we do have to do some test pits on the site.

[1:27:20] But as the board is aware, I think Mr.

[1:27:22] Toi did do the project next door,

[1:27:24] which was substantially similar.

[1:27:25] So he has some working knowledge of what the,

[1:27:27] the underground conditions likely will be based on that.

[1:27:30] And if they do turn out to be what we expect,

[1:27:32] then we should be able to meet

[1:27:35] and comply with the applicable stormwater bylaw

[1:27:37] and not have to get any special relief on that front.

[1:27:44] And then we also, now that the survey's been done

[1:27:47] and we know the grades and the slope

[1:27:49] and we have our sort

[1:27:50] of first preliminary projected grading done, we know

[1:27:53] that we likely we won't need to bring any fill to the site

[1:27:56] and in fact we'll probably have

[1:27:57] to remove some material from the site and take it off.

[1:28:00] 'cause there's probably gonna be too much there. All right.

[1:28:02] Now, now that we've got all this done,

[1:28:04] we also have a better idea of what sort

[1:28:06] of waivers we might need.

[1:28:07] And this was one of the questions

[1:28:08] that the board had for us last time.

[1:28:10] And now that we've gone through this,

[1:28:12] we know we can cite the buildings to comply

[1:28:16] with setback requirements.

[1:28:18] We know that we can, they will comply with a number

[1:28:20] of things but there are, there are a few waivers

[1:28:23] that we definitely will need.

[1:28:25] Three of the waivers are sort of part

[1:28:27] and parcel with the nature of a project like this.

[1:28:29] They're just, this is just

[1:28:30] what you get when you have a multi-unit sort of dense

[1:28:34] or some somewhat dense project.

[1:28:35] So first off, we are gonna be needing a waiver on use

[1:28:39] because this is a single family residential zoning district.

[1:28:41] So we obviously we'll need a waiver with respect to use

[1:28:45] in connection with that.

[1:28:46] We'll also need a waivers for percentage of lot coverage

[1:28:50] because in the SRB district you're limited

[1:28:53] to only 25% and we are over that.

[1:28:55] We'll also need a waiver from floor area ratio.

[1:28:58] And both of those sort

[1:28:59] of are tied part and parcel with the nature.

[1:29:01] 'cause obviously you're doing multiple units,

[1:29:04] multiple buildings, you're gonna be over the,

[1:29:05] the single family threshold.

[1:29:07] And then we expect, we think

[1:29:09] that there's a reasonable possibility

[1:29:11] that we might need a waiver on height.

[1:29:13] We don't know that for sure yet

[1:29:14] because we're still working with the design on the buildings

[1:29:18] and also on the final, the sort of the fine points

[1:29:20] of the grading and the way height is

[1:29:23] calculated in the bylaw.

[1:29:25] You know, it's based on, there's a couple

[1:29:26] of different ways you can do it

[1:29:27] and we need

[1:29:29] to do final calculations based on the final design

[1:29:31] of the houses to know whether we're above the height or not.

[1:29:35] If we are above, we don't think we're gonna be above

[1:29:37] by a huge amount, but we may need a waiver on the height.

[1:29:40] We just don't know yet. So I'm putting that out there just

[1:29:42] so it's not, if we do need it,

[1:29:43] you can't say we didn't tell you,

[1:29:45] but other than those waivers, we don't expect

[1:29:48] to need any other zoning related waivers.

[1:29:51] Alright, so unlike other projects that need a laundry list,

[1:29:55] so Chestnut Street comes to mind

[1:29:58] that needed quite a few zoning waivers.

[1:30:00] We really won't need a lot.

[1:30:02] And in fact, really three three

[1:30:04] of the four waivers we will need are, are

[1:30:07] really essential part of the project itself.

[1:30:09] And you would need almost regardless of size

[1:30:11] or scope, if you're doing any sort of project like this,

[1:30:13] you'd need those waivers.

[1:30:15] Then we technically will also need

[1:30:17] waivers for parking design.

[1:30:20] Each unit is proposed to have a two car garage,

[1:30:23] so there's adequate parking spaces.

[1:30:25] But the way the parking design guidelines work,

[1:30:28] there's certain things that, like the spaces are supposed

[1:30:31] to be configured in a certain way

[1:30:32] and having them inside a garage just they automatically

[1:30:34] don't comply with certain aspects.

[1:30:36] So we will need a waiver from that.

[1:30:38] But I'll point out that an ordinary project

[1:30:42] can ask for a waiver under the zoning bylaw anyways.

[1:30:45] So, so needing a waiver under

[1:30:46] that is not a unusual condition.

[1:30:48] Many commercial projects actually request

[1:30:51] and receive waivers for design

[1:30:53] because the design requirements are specific.

[1:30:56] And for example, one of them is you have to, you're supposed

[1:30:58] to illuminate all of your parking areas,

[1:31:02] a one foot candle per inch

[1:31:03] and invariably many parking areas, if you do that,

[1:31:06] you're gonna have, they're gonna be actually two bright

[1:31:08] or you're gonna have lights where you don't want 'em.

[1:31:10] And so typ, that's a typical waiver

[1:31:12] that is often given in connection with projects.

[1:31:16] And then finally a project

[1:31:18] of this size would typically require major project site plan

[1:31:21] review with the planning board.

[1:31:22] And so that's a waiver that we would need more

[1:31:24] of a procedural waiver than an actual

[1:31:26] substantive zoning waiver.

[1:31:29] So now we've identified sort of our base waivers.

[1:31:32] We've got, we've, we've, we've fine tuned our project a bit.

[1:31:35] We know what the property is, we know the grading,

[1:31:37] we know the wetlands and so on.

[1:31:38] So now we're at the point where we're teeing up to do more

[1:31:43] complete drainage design and getting into that

[1:31:45] and fine tuning our design of the houses.

[1:31:47] So this was, this is a very good time to meet with the board

[1:31:51] and ask for your continued input.

[1:31:53] We know that this is a process

[1:31:55] and it will continue to go on.

[1:31:57] Michael has had meetings with the neighbors.

[1:31:59] He just hit another one recently

[1:32:00] and I expect we'll have several more as we go forward.

[1:32:02] But we do wanna make sure to touch base with the board

[1:32:05] because as I indicated at the outset,

[1:32:07] this is a lip is a cooperative joint kind of project.

[1:32:10] And if the board is inclined to support us on this, it,

[1:32:12] it's sort of, I mean it has to be kind of a two way street

[1:32:15] and we have to be giving the project

[1:32:17] that the board wants on behalf of the town.

[1:32:19] So we would love to hear your input

[1:32:22] and any questions that you might have at this point.

[1:32:25] Excellent. We're just gonna go down the line here

[1:32:28] 'cause I'm sure that everyone has things to say.

[1:32:31] Kevin, do you wanna get us started?

[1:32:33] Sure. Okay. Garages, are they underneath?

[1:32:38] Yes. Are they? Okay.

[1:32:40] So as I look at it, how long are these dry?

[1:32:43] What's the, the driveways look short.

[1:32:47] What's the pitch on them to go underneath?

[1:32:49] Michael, do You wanna answer?

[1:32:50] Yeah, I'm not clear on your question.

[1:32:52] Okay. So as I'm looking at,

[1:32:54] there's a access road coming in on either side,

[1:32:58] then there's a proposed driveway that looks,

[1:33:01] I don't have a measurement on the length of it.

[1:33:03] Are we talking about the from front street

[1:33:06] to back of property or? No, from

[1:33:08] Side to side?

[1:33:09] From side to side. So you gotta turn into your garage.

[1:33:12] You have a proposed driveway

[1:33:13] that looks like maybe it's five feet,

[1:33:17] The, And it goes down.

[1:33:19] So what's your pitch to clear a garage door?

[1:33:23] So the garage floor is about four feet below the street.

[1:33:26] Okay. So it's not, it's a,

[1:33:28] So the rise over run is what?

[1:33:30] But is that below?

[1:33:32] So he's asking the driveway that comes down the side

[1:33:35] and then the garage that comes off of that.

[1:33:37] The difference between the, the driveway

[1:33:39] on the side and the garage,

[1:33:41] That's fairly level.

[1:33:42] It'll be pitched enough to force our water to go

[1:33:46] to our collection basis,

[1:33:49] but it's, it, it's insignificant.

[1:33:52] So it's not a full garage under, it's not a full floor

[1:33:54] Under No, it, No, it's a full garage under,

[1:33:56] but it's the, so what we're proposing is

[1:34:01] going down four feet Yeah.

[1:34:04] With the garage floor from the street

[1:34:07] and then we'll be four feet above

[1:34:10] that gives us our full eight feet.

[1:34:11] Yeah. Underneath from the grading.

[1:34:16] And maybe it's time to show, I don't know

[1:34:20] if this will help any working at this.

[1:34:24] Our grading here,

[1:34:31] the floor is at 2 2 73.

[1:34:35] I'm sorry. First floor is

[1:34:38] 2 73, 2 64.

[1:34:42] We're 2 64 here.

[1:34:44] And the street is at 2 67 above grade.

[1:34:49] I'm sorry, what is that number? Three feet difference.

[1:34:52] Got it. Variation of three feet from the street.

[1:34:55] So that's a very reasonable pitch as it grades down

[1:35:00] and as it comes down, it will

[1:35:04] always be pitched away from the garage,

[1:35:05] four from the garage floor.

[1:35:07] So we'll maintain our swale on the, on the road itself

[1:35:11] or on the, on the driveway itself

[1:35:14] and push it to our collection basins that we'll have

[1:35:19] Right on the driveway.

[1:35:20] But now for a motorist going into the drive,

[1:35:23] into the garage, they're gonna take a hard turn.

[1:35:26] Right turn. Suppose what's the rise

[1:35:29] over run on that driveway?

[1:35:31] At the driveway level?

[1:35:33] It's gonna be fairly, we will drop quickly Yeah,

[1:35:35] from the street down to our 2 64.

[1:35:39] Okay. So that's fairly, that's fairly flat.

[1:35:44] So and then going into the, and going into the garage.

[1:35:47] Yeah. So basically from the street drops down and then it's,

[1:35:50] Yeah, it drops on essentially

[1:35:51] At the garage level, but so there's not another Yeah.

[1:35:54] So you're envisioning like a drop and then a drop and

[1:35:57] No, I'm a road drop.

[1:35:58] But I'm wondering what's our angle,

[1:36:01] because this seems really tight. I,

[1:36:05] It's, to answer your question, it's fairly level through.

[1:36:08] It will be pitched. Yeah. So we can control the water. Okay.

[1:36:12] But it'll be fairly pitched, it'll be very easy to maneuver.

[1:36:16] You have much tighter spaces around town.

[1:36:19] Okay. Speaking of water, so we're collecting an inch

[1:36:23] and a half off the roof and all hardscapes, right?

[1:36:26] Correct. So has to be, it'll be treated

[1:36:30] as well right off the hardscapes.

[1:36:33] Right. Okay. So in the bylaw it's three

[1:36:37] before each S-C-S-C-M that you have,

[1:36:40] and I'm counting, I'm just looking at them in precise map.

[1:36:44] Okay. The plant is 36 SCM chambers. Right.

[1:36:48] That you have on here.

[1:36:50] A again, we haven't done our test pits,

[1:36:52] but I know it's gravel and it's probably a one minute perk.

[1:36:57] And if that means anything to you,

[1:36:59] the water just basically goes through

[1:37:01] it, it drops a foot in a minute.

[1:37:03] Okay. And our water table, when I dug next door,

[1:37:07] we dug down 12 feet and saw no water and no staining either.

[1:37:11] So I'm very confident in what,

[1:37:15] what our soil conditions are Right.

[1:37:17] As well as our water level.

[1:37:18] And we can contain whatever water volume we need to,

[1:37:22] to pick up the roof and any of the hardscape.

[1:37:24] Yeah. So, and the design right now is 36 s scms right?

[1:37:29] On this? Yeah, that's an estimate. Okay.

[1:37:33] It's, but there'll be calculations that we'll have

[1:37:36] to prove out to prove exactly

[1:37:38] what we have to do there. Alright,

[1:37:39] So then there'll be three,

[1:37:41] two inch cper trees per chamber, correct.

[1:37:44] As by the bylaw.

[1:37:46] So those, you will have by this,

[1:37:49] you're gonna have 108 saplings on this property.

[1:37:56] That might be a lot.

[1:37:59] I, I could tell you we had to,

[1:38:03] we we did a double lot in Wellesley.

[1:38:06] Yeah. And we probably put that many on less than a half an

[1:38:11] or about a half an acre.

[1:38:12] Okay. Okay.

[1:38:17] But I think you're gonna have to,

[1:38:18] that'll be the standard to go.

[1:38:21] There's there were also alternatives to

[1:38:23] that if it gets too crowded, I mean we can

[1:38:26] contribute to funds and

[1:38:28] So let's check that out.

[1:38:31] I'm not sure.

[1:38:36] Okay.

[1:38:38] Anything else Kevin? Well actually I gotta say

[1:38:41] ultimately if you want my editorializing, I mean,

[1:38:44] I'm interested in that part.

[1:38:45] This just feels too dense.

[1:38:47] It feels like five feet between buildings is too dense.

[1:38:52] I, my, as I look at this now,

[1:38:55] I'm really not in favor of this.

[1:38:58] If you took out the, I don't care what you do,

[1:39:02] but you build what you want, what you're,

[1:39:04] what you think you can sell.

[1:39:06] But I would remove one, the one

[1:39:11] of the buildings and spread the other ones out

[1:39:14] to make something a bit more breathable.

[1:39:16] I mean, but I think it just feels for the

[1:39:21] location for the neighborhood, it feels too tight.

[1:39:24] It's just too dense.

[1:39:27] And then you don't have to plan as many saplings

[1:39:30] because you won't have, your algebra will change.

[1:39:34] But that's my sense. I think it just feels too tight.

[1:39:38] Okay. Josh, Thank you.

[1:39:41] I guess I, I've said before, I'm not a fan

[1:39:43] of the, the 40 B process.

[1:39:46] I mean, I think we have zoning

[1:39:47] and that that's how I'd prefer to do things.

[1:39:50] I guess it, you know, if we,

[1:39:52] if we do end up using this process,

[1:39:54] I I would really first want

[1:39:56] to get comments from town departments so that we have,

[1:39:59] I know you've spoken with the fire department,

[1:40:00] we haven't seen those comments

[1:40:02] or comm from other departments.

[1:40:03] So that, that would be something important to me

[1:40:05] because there are a lot of tech technical aspects that I,

[1:40:08] I'm not an expert in and I can't evaluate.

[1:40:10] I mean, I, I do look at this map

[1:40:12] and I see that nearly the entire

[1:40:16] back building is within the a hundred foot wetland area.

[1:40:20] I, I don't know how to evaluate that,

[1:40:22] but I know that that is something the Conservation

[1:40:24] commission would, would flag.

[1:40:29] The other thing that that is concerning is, is the waiving

[1:40:32] of site plan review because that is the mechanism

[1:40:35] for the town to, to protect its interests.

[1:40:38] I mean, we talk about, you know, the MBTA zoning

[1:40:41] that we just put in place, even that has site plan review.

[1:40:44] So I would not be in favor of a project that,

[1:40:47] that seeks a waiver of all site plan review. Can,

[1:40:50] Can I just address that one point?

[1:40:52] Yeah. Just, just so the process is clear

[1:40:54] and I know not all the board members have followed a 40 B

[1:40:57] through all the way through, but it's a,

[1:41:00] it's almost a technical waiver

[1:41:01] because even though we ask for the waiver

[1:41:04] of major project site plan review, what ends up happening,

[1:41:07] we file with the board of Appeals, board

[1:41:08] of Appeals conducts their full hearing.

[1:41:10] And as a part of that,

[1:41:12] the planning board issues their opinion.

[1:41:15] And typically, especially on a project like this, we appear

[1:41:17] before the planning board and we have a whole presentation

[1:41:19] with them essentially in substance almost exactly like

[1:41:24] what we would do with the major project site plan process.

[1:41:27] Except we don't submit a site plan

[1:41:29] application to the planning board.

[1:41:31] They review it and they make their recommendation

[1:41:33] to the board of appeals and then board

[1:41:34] of appeals makes the decision.

[1:41:36] So it doesn't technically go through site plan review,

[1:41:39] but it, as a matter of practice, it does, you know,

[1:41:43] in all practicality, it goes through the planning board

[1:41:45] and it goes through engineer

[1:41:46] and goes through all the departments.

[1:41:47] So they comment and they review it

[1:41:50] and that, so the concern that you're talking about, yeah,

[1:41:53] it, that, that gets addressed in the process.

[1:41:54] It's just in 40 bs it gets addressed a little bit

[1:41:57] differently than it would in your

[1:41:58] customary commercial project.

[1:42:00] Rather than having to go to three or four

[1:42:02] or five different boards, you go to the ZBA

[1:42:05] and the ZBA is sort

[1:42:06] of the collecting point for everybody else.

[1:42:09] I, I guess, but maybe this, this goes to Kevin's point.

[1:42:11] The reason why it triggers the major product site plan is

[1:42:13] because of its mass, because of its scale.

[1:42:16] And, and I guess an easy way to,

[1:42:20] to avoid it without asking for a

[1:42:22] waiver would be to reduce the scale.

[1:42:23] The reason why we have that trigger is

[1:42:24] because large projects demand more scrutiny.

[1:42:29] I I don't disagree on that point,

[1:42:31] but essentially anything other than a single

[1:42:35] or, well basically certainly four units are

[1:42:38] above would likely trigger major

[1:42:39] project site plan review here.

[1:42:41] 'cause the threshold is low enough,

[1:42:42] it's 10,000 square feet of area.

[1:42:44] And so basically at,

[1:42:46] so these units are roughly 22, 2300 square feet per

[1:42:49] unit, four units.

[1:42:50] You know, you're rough almost there. Right.

[1:42:52] So probably, you know, any development

[1:42:57] that would be in, in keeping with the size of the site

[1:43:00] and for example, in keeping with the project

[1:43:02] that was done next door is gonna trigger major projects like

[1:43:04] Plan Rio just 'cause of the size.

[1:43:05] So I'm not sure that scaling it back, like you'd have

[1:43:09] to scale it back to like a duplex

[1:43:11] or a single, you know, maybe three, which is kind of

[1:43:15] almost the opposite of what the concept is here.

[1:43:19] If I could also have Mary, maybe discuss a little bit

[1:43:23] with the wetlands issues.

[1:43:27] Yeah, good evening. I, as George had noted,

[1:43:32] I had gone out and done the wetlands delineation,

[1:43:35] which is an evaluation that looks at both soils, hydrology

[1:43:39] and wetlands vegetation.

[1:43:42] The wetland area is located on an adjacent property,

[1:43:47] but that doesn't matter under the Wetlands Protection Act

[1:43:50] because it's, it takes a holistic view of it.

[1:43:54] In Needham, the Conservation Commission typically has a very

[1:43:58] strict zero to 25 foot no disturb zone.

[1:44:01] And that's just blanket across most projects

[1:44:06] that are in front of the Conservation commission.

[1:44:08] Because this project has a naturally wooded,

[1:44:13] albeit filled with invasives

[1:44:15] and non-native species slope, I believe

[1:44:18] that the Conservation commission will impose a 50 foot

[1:44:21] no disturbed zone on this property.

[1:44:24] So in light of that, Mike has pulled his unit back

[1:44:28] to about 70 feet from the edge of wetland.

[1:44:32] As you may be aware,

[1:44:34] the buffer zone is a regulated area.

[1:44:37] It's not a resource area like the bordering vegetated

[1:44:40] wetlands down at the bottom of the hill.

[1:44:42] Those are one of the most highly protected

[1:44:44] resources in Massachusetts.

[1:44:46] Buffer zone is regulated

[1:44:48] and it is protected in the sense that it is protective

[1:44:52] of the down gradient wetlands.

[1:44:54] So it doesn't have a strict set of performance standards

[1:44:58] because it's supposed to be unique

[1:44:59] and it, it looks at what's happening here.

[1:45:02] The plan that we have proposed on this site plan,

[1:45:07] I think is approvable

[1:45:08] by the Needham Conservation Commission under both the local

[1:45:11] bylaw and the State Wetlands Protection Act

[1:45:14] that we wouldn't necessarily need any waivers at all from

[1:45:18] their traditional book.

[1:45:21] See, at a project like this, we will have

[1:45:26] to meet stormwater management under the mass DEP regulations

[1:45:29] because we're more than four units, which is an extra level

[1:45:33] of protection above what your local bylaw has,

[1:45:37] that it looks at several different interests

[1:45:39] that towns typically do.

[1:45:41] But it makes for a fairly rigorous review

[1:45:44] by your local conservation commission.

[1:45:46] My guess is that they probably would go out

[1:45:48] for a third party review depending

[1:45:51] who is on their commission right now in terms

[1:45:53] of engineering expertise, you know, so

[1:45:55] that you would be getting part of that site plan review

[1:45:58] from the commission as well in their permitting process.

[1:46:03] No, thank you for that. I, and I respect your expertise.

[1:46:06] I think I would want to also ask for the expertise

[1:46:09] of our director of conservation.

[1:46:10] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

[1:46:12] No, I'm, I'm a hired gun. You know, you can talk.

[1:46:17] All right, bill,

[1:46:19] As you may know, we're getting a lot of comments on this,

[1:46:21] you know, and, and some of the things that we've just heard

[1:46:24] recently is, you know, the, you know, neighbors

[1:46:27] and people who are nearby are concerned about you're gonna

[1:46:30] have to build some retaining walls.

[1:46:32] How are we gonna do that? How how's that gonna be done?

[1:46:34] So it'll look good. It won't

[1:46:37] infringe on the properties next door.

[1:46:39] And the other talk about the 132 trees, that's a, that,

[1:46:43] that all goes into screening, you know,

[1:46:44] how how's the screening gonna be done

[1:46:46] because, you know, the, the driveways are on this side

[1:46:49] and that your other previous project, which is great

[1:46:51] and you know, has been great for a long time.

[1:46:54] You know, how, how we, how are we gonna be able

[1:46:56] to screen some from that with, with, with some

[1:46:58] of the concerns that, that I see.

[1:47:01] So the, we would not require a, a retaining wall

[1:47:06] above four feet under any circumstances anyway.

[1:47:09] We can always slope from the other property.

[1:47:11] I've also had some comments from one of the neighbors

[1:47:15] that maybe we share some space in between and,

[1:47:19] and do some landscaping in between,

[1:47:20] which we'd be more than happy to do

[1:47:25] the, I'm sorry, your on the,

[1:47:28] The screening that you said.

[1:47:29] Should you share that basic?

[1:47:32] We, we have most of these comments

[1:47:35] that we're hearing now are the same comments we heard when

[1:47:39] we did Brown Whitney 24, 22 years ago.

[1:47:45] And after it was done, everybody thought it was beautiful.

[1:47:48] Change is always hard for people to visualize

[1:47:52] and it seems impactful.

[1:47:54] These buildings are only a few feet higher than the

[1:47:57] brown Whitney buildings.

[1:47:58] And in volume they're, they're on the first

[1:48:02] and second floor are probably less than 15% Difference.

[1:48:07] Times have changed. Demands have changed.

[1:48:09] People want different things than what,

[1:48:12] we can't just build something

[1:48:14] and hope somebody's gonna want it.

[1:48:16] We have to listen to the marketplace.

[1:48:18] And we've all seen that the changes

[1:48:20] that have come in the size of construction

[1:48:23] that's happened over the years.

[1:48:26] We have not led that charge on bigger properties.

[1:48:30] We've, if you look at most of the things we build,

[1:48:33] we build undersize

[1:48:34] and we get punished a little bit for it financially,

[1:48:37] but it's what we try to do.

[1:48:39] We tried, we care about the town, we like the town, we want

[1:48:43] to drive by something and be happy that we built it.

[1:48:48] It we're, my family has been in this town

[1:48:51] for a very long time, and if you drive around

[1:48:54] and look at the different properties

[1:48:56] that we've built over the years

[1:48:58] and there's well over a hundred, they, the ones

[1:49:02] that are well taken care of, which is most of them,

[1:49:06] most people appreciate.

[1:49:07] We, we won an award for building, for doing Brown Whitney,

[1:49:12] and a lot of the neighbors that opposed us

[1:49:17] ended up coming up to me later

[1:49:20] and apologizing for all the, of what they put us through.

[1:49:26] Now we wanna work with the neighbors

[1:49:28] and we wanna work with the board.

[1:49:31] Our hope was,

[1:49:32] and the reason we came in with the five buildings

[1:49:35] as we were trying to get that extra affordable unit for

[1:49:40] some family that, you know, would benefit for it.

[1:49:44] And we're in a position where, you know, if the board wants

[1:49:49] that extra room, we're willing to do that.

[1:49:51] If they're not, we're willing to listen to the concerns that

[1:49:55] as well as with the neighbors on, on

[1:49:58] how to go forward with this.

[1:50:01] Are you all set? I I don't think the, I mean,

[1:50:03] of course we wanna follow up our housing for everyone,

[1:50:05] but I think the density is more important

[1:50:08] than the affordable housing.

[1:50:10] And we're here asking for that feedback too.

[1:50:13] That's just my personal opinion.

[1:50:15] Sure. Kathy?

[1:50:18] Yes. Actually, on the point of the affordable units,

[1:50:21] I'm interested in, in the pricing.

[1:50:25] So the market rate units

[1:50:27] targeted at 1.75 million

[1:50:30] and the affordable at seven to 800,000.

[1:50:33] Does that track to a percentage of

[1:50:37] median area income

[1:50:39] or how, how does that affordable number come about?

[1:50:43] It's built around the median income of Needham.

[1:50:46] It's designed and the, the regulation determines what

[1:50:50] that we don't determine the price we have

[1:50:52] to fit into whatever the town.

[1:50:54] And, and so I put a range in there only

[1:50:57] because I don't, I did some quick math,

[1:50:59] but that's gonna have to be approved by right

[1:51:04] by the, the powers to be on that.

[1:51:08] Okay. Anything else Kathy? No, that I'm all set.

[1:51:13] Okay. Well, for, for myself, I would say

[1:51:17] my concern is not density.

[1:51:19] I think that density in particular places is,

[1:51:23] is not only okay, it's good for the town

[1:51:26] and specifically good in this kind of configuration

[1:51:29] where you have the sort of the central grassy area.

[1:51:32] My concern is about the size of the buildings.

[1:51:36] I think that there's, these houses are, are quite large

[1:51:42] and I I do think

[1:51:44] that they are a bit unrealistic for the space.

[1:51:47] I guess my question is really that the,

[1:51:52] a lip profit is limited by state statute to 20%

[1:51:56] of the development cost.

[1:51:58] So it seems to me,

[1:52:02] and I'm not a real estate mogul,

[1:52:05] but I will say that if, if you are, if you are basing

[1:52:10] all of the, the math on your development costs

[1:52:13] and it seems as though it might be worth your while

[1:52:16] to consider reducing the size of the buildings,

[1:52:20] I think personally that that would bring you into

[1:52:24] competition for some of the folks who would like to downsize

[1:52:27] as well as new families.

[1:52:29] I note that the previous, the Brown Whitney development,

[1:52:34] those, those buildings are much smaller

[1:52:37] and we received letters from families

[1:52:40] that moved into those houses and remain in those houses

[1:52:43] and were able to comfortably raise families and stuff.

[1:52:46] I do understand that modern living

[1:52:49] perhaps has some amenities that we've all become used to,

[1:52:52] but I do think that these do seem to be

[1:52:56] quite large given that your profit

[1:52:59] is hinging on your development costs.

[1:53:04] I do wonder if, you know,

[1:53:06] if your development costs were reduced, that

[1:53:08] that might make it easier for you.

[1:53:09] I think it also might make it a little easier to,

[1:53:11] to gain this board's approval

[1:53:13] and to gain the approval of the neighbors

[1:53:15] because many of the letters

[1:53:16] that we received actually indicated support for the concept.

[1:53:20] But a feeling that the mass

[1:53:22] of the buildings was just too much.

[1:53:25] I mean, I I hear you about the height.

[1:53:29] I think that height is an issue across town

[1:53:32] and that it doesn't make sense to necessarily replicate,

[1:53:35] you know, that we have a, a height, a,

[1:53:38] a warrant about amending our heights across town, coming

[1:53:41] to our special town meeting in October.

[1:53:44] So I guess I would say that generally speaking,

[1:53:49] I would be supportive of this project,

[1:53:51] but I would like to see the size more

[1:53:56] in line with what the rest of the street is.

[1:53:59] You know, the development that you've already done next door

[1:54:02] and the single family residences.

[1:54:04] I mean, that would allow you a good deal more spot

[1:54:08] for all your trees, for example.

[1:54:12] So IIII will also say that I do have

[1:54:15] confidence in the ZBA to run the process appropriately

[1:54:19] to manage all the oversight that is required

[1:54:21] and is mandated by state law.

[1:54:23] So that to me is not an issue.

[1:54:26] I think for me the issue is just the size,

[1:54:29] but again, the density I think is as demonstrated

[1:54:32] by the development next door.

[1:54:34] Not really the issue. It's really the, the mass.

[1:54:39] So does that give you the kind of clarity

[1:54:42] that you need across

[1:54:43] The board?

[1:54:44] If I, if I could talk a little bit about the,

[1:54:45] now we're staying under, we, we do

[1:54:49] anticipate there's a potential of a height

[1:54:53] adjustments coming.

[1:54:56] We are staying under that with these buildings.

[1:54:59] So just so you know, we did take that into consideration.

[1:55:04] Again, we're only about 2200 square feet on,

[1:55:08] on two floors.

[1:55:10] The Brown Whitney doesn't have a third floor dormers

[1:55:14] or any, there were a lot of the zoning issues that came up

[1:55:17] that, that have have evolved since then.

[1:55:22] And one of the things that we were trying

[1:55:25] to do here was have a first floor bedroom

[1:55:29] and that takes up space in footprint.

[1:55:32] So it becomes problematic in trying to shrink it too much.

[1:55:35] But we will take a look at it.

[1:55:37] I'm not saying that we won't,

[1:55:38] I'm just giving you an explanation

[1:55:39] of why Sure. We did what we did.

[1:55:41] I mean, I wonder if you could make that

[1:55:44] a flexible floor plan.

[1:55:45] So a young, an older downsizing couple could use it

[1:55:49] as a bedroom and a family could use it

[1:55:52] as an office, for example.

[1:55:53] I mean, you know, it seems like there's ways to, but

[1:55:56] That space itself, in order to include

[1:55:59] that on a first floor

[1:56:02] and still have a family room that works for,

[1:56:05] for most people, we need, we need that extra space now.

[1:56:10] We can, we can take a look at our design, we will do that.

[1:56:14] Sure. But we're, we're just trying

[1:56:17] to accommodate those things.

[1:56:18] And we also saved a space for somebody

[1:56:21] that might want an elevator coming up from the basement

[1:56:25] to the, to that first floor level.

[1:56:30] So if somebody wanted, they could, with the garage under,

[1:56:34] knowing that a lot of the people

[1:56:37] that are gonna buy these have a potential of being retirees,

[1:56:42] don't wanna walk those stairs

[1:56:43] or bring groceries up those stairs.

[1:56:45] Sure. But I mean, generally I think the location is,

[1:56:48] is terrific for this kind of development

[1:56:51] and I I hope that you'll find a way

[1:56:53] to make it just a little bit more palatable. Okay.

[1:56:55] Thank you. Okay. Thanks very much

[1:56:57] for coming in. Thank you all.

[1:56:58] Thanks. Thank you.

[1:57:10] Excuse me. A

[1:57:14] I'm sticking to the chair too.

[1:57:29] Okay. Now that it's seven 20, we'll move on

[1:57:33] to the proposed installation of the, the Accidental Artist,

[1:57:38] A public mural at 1299 Highland Avenue

[1:57:42] and subbing in for Abby Bernstein

[1:57:44] who couldn't be here Tonight will be our Deputy town manager

[1:57:49] and our director of Economic Development.

[1:57:53] Welcome. Thank you. Thank you.

[1:57:56] So As you mentioned, Abby couldn't be here tonight.

[1:57:59] She's the chair of the Needle Council for Arts

[1:58:00] and Culture due to a family emergency.

[1:58:03] So I just wanna be clear at the outset

[1:58:04] that I'm very much here relaying Abby's sentiments in the

[1:58:07] work of the NCAC.

[1:58:09] John is our current liaison to the council,

[1:58:11] but I had the privilege of serving as the liaison last fall

[1:58:14] and into the early winter, which overlapped with some

[1:58:17] of the formative steps of this project.

[1:58:18] So I bore witness to the tremendous amount of thought, time,

[1:58:22] care, and effort that Abby

[1:58:23] and the council put into getting this right.

[1:58:26] We didn't want Abby's absence

[1:58:27] to delay the board's presentation.

[1:58:28] Tonight, the artist is prepared to begin almost immediately,

[1:58:32] once the remaining accounting

[1:58:34] and administrative documents are wrapped up.

[1:58:35] So we wanted to keep the project moving.

[1:58:38] You have Abby's very detailed report in your packet,

[1:58:42] which walks through the artwork.

[1:58:43] Its symbolism, the site, community feedback,

[1:58:46] and the evolution of the design.

[1:58:48] So if you're looking for the artistic interpretation,

[1:58:50] I will direct you there because I'm

[1:58:51] decidedly not the artist in the room.

[1:58:54] The report does a wonderful job explaining the many Needham

[1:58:56] references incorporated into the final design,

[1:58:58] which I think John has larger versions for you,

[1:59:03] and the ways that the design evolved in response

[1:59:05] to the tremendous community feedback.

[1:59:07] What I do wanna emphasize tonight is the process,

[1:59:09] because I think that it is an

[1:59:11] important part of this project.

[1:59:12] It was new territory for the NCAC.

[1:59:14] It's their first public private partnership in public art

[1:59:17] with the town and the Grossman company sharing both the

[1:59:20] investment and the project and

[1:59:21] the participation in the process.

[1:59:23] So that meant the NCAC was trying

[1:59:25] to apply a traditional municipal call for artists framework

[1:59:27] to something that frankly wasn't a

[1:59:29] traditional municipal art project.

[1:59:31] So there were challenges along the way.

[1:59:32] After the initial call for artists

[1:59:34] and first round of public input, it became clear

[1:59:37] that the process needed to evolve.

[1:59:39] So rather than simply pushing forward the NCAC sought

[1:59:42] guidance from the town and from the Massachusetts Cultural

[1:59:44] Council, and they pivoted, the process was reopened.

[1:59:47] All three original finalists, artists were compensated

[1:59:50] for the additional work in a second round of design,

[1:59:52] development and public input was undertaken.

[1:59:56] I think that it's worth emphasizing

[1:59:57] that when the original process didn't quite fit the

[1:59:59] realities of this new partnership, the council adjusted,

[2:00:02] they worked hard to ensure the artists

[2:00:04] were treated equitably.

[2:00:05] The property owner had an

[2:00:07] appropriate voice as a true partner.

[2:00:09] And importantly that the community's voice was heard

[2:00:10] and reflected in the ultimate design, it went

[2:00:12] through several iterations.

[2:00:14] The second survey alone generated more than 50 pages

[2:00:16] of written public feedback.

[2:00:19] The result before you tonight is really the product

[2:00:21] of that iterative process.

[2:00:22] The NCAC sees this as a pilot

[2:00:24] and hopefully a starting point.

[2:00:26] They learned a tremendous amount about how

[2:00:27] to navigate a public private partnership like this.

[2:00:30] And they hope those lessons can provide a framework

[2:00:32] for similar projects in the future as budgets

[2:00:34] and opportunities allow.

[2:00:36] And with that, I'm happy to answer the questions

[2:00:37] that are within my non-artist lane.

[2:00:43] All right, well, colleagues who,

[2:00:45] Who owns that building again?

[2:00:46] Grossman Companies. And so

[2:00:49] what if they sell it tomorrow?

[2:00:52] Is there anything in it that says you have

[2:00:54] to keep the mural for a while or anything?

[2:00:56] There is not in the agreement between the three parties.

[2:00:58] No.

[2:01:01] That's a bummer. I think that's

[2:01:03] The same for other murals in town too, right?

[2:01:05] Well, they're on public property.

[2:01:07] No, if they're on private property, right? They're private.

[2:01:09] Yeah.

[2:01:11] So that would be like the side of the

[2:01:13] Crest, The side of the building with the alley,

[2:01:17] the Chapel Street there.

[2:01:18] Yes. Thank you. Yeah.

[2:01:22] Kathy, any comments? I, I think it's cool.

[2:01:27] I'm excited that it's getting done.

[2:01:31] Great, Josh. I think it's great. Yeah. Kevin,

[2:01:35] You know, it's interesting reading

[2:01:38] The stuff.

[2:01:39] I understand the Grossman company didn't want a colorful

[2:01:43] or more matic,

[2:01:45] and this is kind of interesting to see the two,

[2:01:47] someone tried to marry them together and it kind of works.

[2:01:52] I get that they didn't want the brick

[2:01:53] and it creates a weird optical effect,

[2:01:58] but it, the color punches are kind of like,

[2:02:01] this is what you can do with color.

[2:02:03] And the monochromatic is of an interesting effect too. So,

[2:02:06] And the orange is from like their logo color too,

[2:02:09] so it makes it all work nicely. Yeah, that's

[2:02:11] Pretty good.

[2:02:12] All right. So it's is an interesting solution.

[2:02:17] Well, I, I guess I'd just like to say thank you

[2:02:20] to all of the folks involved.

[2:02:22] I, I, you and you in your roles with the committee.

[2:02:26] The committee obviously, and the artists.

[2:02:30] But I, I guess I want to just

[2:02:34] especially say thank you to the property owner.

[2:02:37] I think it's, it's really, it's really fantastic.

[2:02:40] I have, I feel a great deal of appreciation

[2:02:42] to our private property owners who acknowledge

[2:02:45] and embrace their role in bringing art into our public

[2:02:49] spaces and acknowledging that their property as part

[2:02:53] of the town's public space.

[2:02:57] So their support of the arts is part of what makes

[2:03:02] this town and towns like it.

[2:03:04] Awesome. So I just wanna acknowledge that without the side

[2:03:09] of the building, we wouldn't be able to do this.

[2:03:11] So thank you to everyone involved.

[2:03:14] Thank you. If I could, looks great.

[2:03:16] I just add one thing too. It's great that it's right next to

[2:03:17] that math place because there's so many kids

[2:03:19] that are gonna be going, you know, you'll drive

[2:03:22] by in your car and you see, but they're gonna

[2:03:24] be walking, they're gonna be there.

[2:03:25] It's great that it's right there for, and they're

[2:03:26] Gonna have a little scavenger hunt type thing

[2:03:29] that they can find the different images in

[2:03:30] The, that's awesome.

[2:03:32] Yeah. Excellent. Thank you. Yay. Thank you. Great project.

[2:03:36] Thank you.

[2:03:42] Alright, so next up we're gonna joined

[2:03:46] by Amy Helson, our director of communications

[2:03:49] and community engagement

[2:03:50] to talk about a whole bunch of stuff.

[2:03:53] So fill us in. Hi, nice to see you. Nice

[2:03:58] To be here.

[2:03:59] Thank you for having me.

[2:04:01] Okay, so we are gonna start out talking about

[2:04:07] the national community survey.

[2:04:09] May, are you running the slide deck? I am. Okay, thank you.

[2:04:15] So the National Community Survey,

[2:04:18] it's basically a report about the livability of Needham.

[2:04:22] So we've done this every two years since 2008,

[2:04:26] with the exception of 2020

[2:04:28] because of the pandemic we skipped that year.

[2:04:33] So a livable community is basically a place

[2:04:35] that's not just simply habitable, but it's desirable.

[2:04:39] It's a place where you, where you wanna live.

[2:04:43] And, and so the questions

[2:04:47] that were in the National Community Survey,

[2:04:50] this has really been perfected.

[2:04:52] They've been doing this for so long,

[2:04:54] and there are benchmarks.

[2:04:56] So Needham is compared to 400 other communities nationwide

[2:05:01] that also participate in the National Community Survey.

[2:05:05] In addition, there are local benchmarks.

[2:05:08] There are six Massachusetts communities that have also

[2:05:14] done the NCS.

[2:05:15] And so as we walk through the results,

[2:05:18] and it's a pretty dense report.

[2:05:20] I've already uploaded it to the town's website.

[2:05:23] So if you go under our government

[2:05:25] and under publications reports, it's already there.

[2:05:28] So you can walk through

[2:05:30] and I'm just gonna touch the highlights because

[2:05:32] otherwise I'd be here for two hours

[2:05:34] and I know you have a long agenda.

[2:05:37] So, so without further ado, we'll sort of walk through

[2:05:42] the, the key pieces of this.

[2:05:44] So the study method, so 3000 Needham residents were invited

[2:05:48] to participate and they are randomly chosen.

[2:05:50] And so people received a postcard in the mail, inviting them

[2:05:54] to participate, and they had a special URL

[2:05:57] that they logged on to.

[2:05:59] So that was open so that those were targeted for two weeks.

[2:06:03] And then after two weeks, the rest

[2:06:05] of the community was invited to participate.

[2:06:08] Out of the 3000 residents, 562 responded to the survey,

[2:06:14] and there's a margin of error of 4.1%,

[2:06:17] and the response rate was about 20%.

[2:06:19] So it's a little bit lower than it was in 2024.

[2:06:22] And then it's also important to note

[2:06:23] that the survey results were weighted.

[2:06:25] So the demographic profile is more indicative of Needham.

[2:06:29] So what that means is, if we got a glut of responses

[2:06:34] from a certain age population,

[2:06:36] what they would do is they take the demographics of Needham

[2:06:38] and sort of, you know, adjust them so

[2:06:41] that it's more representative of the demographics in town.

[2:06:46] As I already mentioned, 400 communities

[2:06:49] and six Massachusetts communities.

[2:06:51] So let's jump right into the results.

[2:06:53] So the overall highlights, good news is

[2:06:58] 97% of those responded say,

[2:07:03] Needham is excellent

[2:07:04] or good place to live, 93% rate,

[2:07:07] the overall quality is excellent

[2:07:09] or good, 81% rate, the quality

[2:07:12] of town services provided is excellent or good.

[2:07:14] And we'll get into how that compares

[2:07:16] to previous years in the next couple of slides.

[2:07:19] But there's a few things that jump out.

[2:07:22] At first, safety, the majority of residents perceive Needham

[2:07:25] as a very safe place to live.

[2:07:28] And not to jump too far ahead and,

[2:07:32] and sort of take away the, the excitement announcement,

[2:07:36] exciting announcement is that the storm water management,

[2:07:39] all of that hard work

[2:07:40] that you all put into storm water management,

[2:07:43] 12% increase in satisfaction in storm water management.

[2:07:46] So, yay.

[2:07:49] And I'm also excited to share that with public engagement,

[2:07:53] there was an increase from 2024 in people attending

[2:07:57] or watching public meetings,

[2:07:59] contacting elected officials or the town.

[2:08:02] So overall, from those four categories,

[2:08:04] there was a 23% increase in people's engagement

[2:08:08] with the town, which I think is awesome.

[2:08:11] You know, the fact that folks know how to reach out

[2:08:14] to the town

[2:08:15] or to elected officials, how to share their opinions

[2:08:19] and make their voices heard is really tremendous.

[2:08:24] So inclusivity continues to be both a strength

[2:08:26] and an opportunity for continued growth.

[2:08:28] Housing affordability continues to be a concern.

[2:08:32] And governance confidence in government, local

[2:08:34] and federal has declined.

[2:08:35] But this is a national trend.

[2:08:37] So it's not specific to Needham,

[2:08:40] but it's certainly something we

[2:08:41] of course wanna keep an eye on.

[2:08:43] Okay, so we're gonna go to the next slide.

[2:08:46] I'm just gonna highlight a few of these things here.

[2:08:49] Under quality of life, as we discussed, as a place to live,

[2:08:52] overall quality of life, those ranked very high.

[2:08:56] So what these numbers mean is when you is the percent

[2:08:59] positive is that 97% of the respondents said

[2:09:04] that Needham was an Exeter a good place to live.

[2:09:06] But what the national percentile means is that

[2:09:09] we ranked higher than 92%

[2:09:14] of the 400 communities.

[2:09:16] Okay? So that means that we're on the top 8%,

[2:09:18] which is pretty tremendous.

[2:09:21] And then you'll see the, the changes from 2024,

[2:09:26] because even though it's interesting to compare ourselves

[2:09:30] to these 400 other communities, what we're really wanting

[2:09:32] to do is compare ourselves to two years ago to see,

[2:09:35] you know, how are we measuring up to

[2:09:37] what we did back in 2024?

[2:09:40] So versus the local benchmark, you can also see

[2:09:43] how our results were.

[2:09:44] And all of these results are, are similar

[2:09:47] to the local benchmark, but higher in areas of overall image

[2:09:52] or reputation is in its quality of life.

[2:09:55] Next slide, please. Okay.

[2:09:58] Public safety need

[2:10:01] and ranked much higher than the national benchmark.

[2:10:04] So we ranked higher than 98% of the communities,

[2:10:08] which is pretty terrific.

[2:10:11] And also, versus the local benchmark,

[2:10:13] we also ranked higher crime prevention.

[2:10:18] Also much higher in that,

[2:10:21] that actually increased 4% from just two years ago.

[2:10:25] So all of the great work

[2:10:26] that the Needham Police Department is doing

[2:10:28] is certainly being noticed.

[2:10:31] And then fire prevention

[2:10:32] and education is also higher than it was a couple

[2:10:35] of years ago, as well as emergency preparedness.

[2:10:39] So that's pretty, pretty interesting to note.

[2:10:44] Okay, we're gonna go to the next one.

[2:10:45] For governance, I was particularly excited about

[2:10:49] public information services.

[2:10:51] The change from 2024 was an increase of 7%.

[2:10:56] And so we're also higher the national benchmark similar

[2:10:59] to local, but

[2:11:01] that's certainly trending in the right direction.

[2:11:03] So that was great to see overall quality services

[2:11:07] by the town, that did go down a little bit,

[2:11:11] 4% lower than it was in 2024.

[2:11:14] The overall direction Needham is taking

[2:11:17] was also lower than it was in 2024 by 9%.

[2:11:22] And generally acting in the best interest of the community

[2:11:25] also decreased by 10%.

[2:11:30] Jumping down to towards the bottom, contacting the town

[2:11:34] for help or information, again in an increase of 8%,

[2:11:38] which is, which is really nice to see. Can I, yeah,

[2:11:42] Does that mean that the, whether the respondent had

[2:11:45] ever contacted the town,

[2:11:47] It didn't ask if it was the first time.

[2:11:49] It just means did you contact the town?

[2:11:51] You know, have you contacted the town

[2:11:53] to get more information or ask questions?

[2:11:55] Okay, so that was an increase

[2:11:58] of 8% from 2024.

[2:12:01] And then the overall quality

[2:12:02] of services from the federal government,

[2:12:04] you can see a huge drop.

[2:12:07] It, it's 27% in 2026,

[2:12:11] and it's, you know, that's, that's trending nationally.

[2:12:14] So again, while we wanna, I think keep an eye on, you know,

[2:12:19] the results here, the acting in the best in sort the

[2:12:21] community and the, and the, you know,

[2:12:26] how folks feel about local government, that's, that's also

[2:12:30] a nationwide trend.

[2:12:32] So something to keep an eye on,

[2:12:35] but just so that you know, it's in context that that

[2:12:39] compared to other communities,

[2:12:40] they're experiencing the same, that's a

[2:12:41] 30% drop on federal government,

[2:12:44] Correct?

[2:12:46] Yes. All right. So we're gonna jump to the economy.

[2:12:50] The overall economic health of Needham,

[2:12:54] it's higher than the national benchmark.

[2:12:56] It did change a little bit from 2024,

[2:12:58] but also versus the local benchmark, it's, it's higher.

[2:13:03] Needham is a place to work that increased by 6%

[2:13:08] and is is higher than the national national benchmark.

[2:13:13] Similar to local cost of living,

[2:13:17] you know, that continues.

[2:13:18] That was, you know, the area,

[2:13:20] the concern about affordability of, of Needham, it continues

[2:13:23] to resonate in all of the surveys

[2:13:27] that we've done in recent years.

[2:13:30] And then health and wellness continues

[2:13:32] to rank very high versus, you know,

[2:13:34] in the national benchmark, very high scores on those.

[2:13:39] Next slide please. Under mobility,

[2:13:45] I just focused on a handful.

[2:13:47] As I mentioned, this survey is very dense

[2:13:50] and you can see every single one of the questions

[2:13:52] that was asked in this survey on the report that is uploaded

[2:13:56] to the town's website.

[2:13:59] Interestingly, where we compare to local,

[2:14:03] the other six local communities, the ease of parking, ease

[2:14:06] of travel by bicycle and walking,

[2:14:08] all ranked higher than the six communities in Massachusetts.

[2:14:14] Stormwater management, again, 12% increase.

[2:14:19] Kevin is Josh obviously very excited about

[2:14:22] that, which he should be.

[2:14:23] That's, that's terrific. And

[2:14:26] That's perception.

[2:14:27] I mean, like in reality, we, we passed a bylaw,

[2:14:30] but like the actual act

[2:14:33] of improving storm water comes a little later.

[2:14:37] But they know you're working on it.

[2:14:38] They know we're working on it. Exactly. Yeah.

[2:14:42] The other thing, the overall quality

[2:14:44] of utility infrastructure ranks higher

[2:14:49] than the national benchmark as well.

[2:14:51] And our drinking water ranked higher than the other six

[2:14:54] local communities.

[2:14:55] So next slide please.

[2:14:59] So we go to education, arts and culture.

[2:15:04] Not surprisingly, this is trended this way

[2:15:07] for the last several years.

[2:15:10] In fact, if I went back to 2008, I'm,

[2:15:13] I'm sure it would probably show very similar results.

[2:15:16] But the quality of K to 12 education

[2:15:19] is much higher than the national benchmark

[2:15:22] and higher than the six other Massachusetts communities,

[2:15:28] community support for the arts,

[2:15:30] it's also 68%.

[2:15:34] So we didn't have a change from two years ago.

[2:15:39] Public library services, again, 97%,

[2:15:43] which is terrific.

[2:15:46] Everybody loves the library

[2:15:48] versus the national benchmark is also higher.

[2:15:53] Next slide please. Okay. So community connection.

[2:15:57] People generally feel a very good, you know,

[2:16:00] very close sense of community.

[2:16:02] Needham is a place to raise children. 95%.

[2:16:06] That's pretty extraordinary.

[2:16:09] You know, I would say a,

[2:16:10] a change in 2% really isn't significant.

[2:16:13] So it's not anything to I think be concerned about.

[2:16:18] Neighbor, I loved this one.

[2:16:20] The neighborliness of residents in Needham

[2:16:23] higher than the national benchmark.

[2:16:25] And it's, it's trended very similar

[2:16:29] numbers in the last several surveys.

[2:16:33] And then opportunities to participate in community matters

[2:16:36] also higher than,

[2:16:40] than the national benchmark.

[2:16:43] Openness and acceptance of community towards people

[2:16:45] of diverse backgrounds is also,

[2:16:51] it, it that increased as well.

[2:16:53] 7%. And then this also, this, this last one here got me,

[2:16:58] you know, very excited that residents campaigned to advocate

[2:17:01] for a local issue cause or candidate that

[2:17:03] that increased by 9%.

[2:17:05] So I think, you know, we're,

[2:17:08] we're seeing it trending in the right direction

[2:17:09] that people are feeling informed

[2:17:12] and are feeling that they have an opportunity

[2:17:15] to be involved.

[2:17:17] Okay. Custom questions.

[2:17:21] So the national community survey allows us

[2:17:23] to ask custom questions

[2:17:26] before custom questions at the end of the survey.

[2:17:30] So there's, because they're custom to us,

[2:17:33] we can't compare them to any other community.

[2:17:37] But that was interesting that the town's website actually

[2:17:42] is the largest source of information for folks

[2:17:44] to find out about what's going on

[2:17:46] with the newsletter coming in behind it at just under 50%.

[2:17:50] And then the, the, the alerts, the alert need, you know,

[2:17:54] that's the sort of the reverse 9 1 1 and the notify me texts

[2:17:58] and emails where folks can go to the website to sign up

[2:18:01] for notifications on anything from a public meeting to,

[2:18:07] you know, the, the water restrictions

[2:18:09] or if their building is closed because of a snowstorm.

[2:18:12] Those types of things.

[2:18:13] So can gonna continue to push that

[2:18:16] because I think those are really effective ways

[2:18:18] to continue to communicate with folks.

[2:18:20] I feel like this may be showing the bias

[2:18:22] of the sample a little bit

[2:18:24] because, so I mean,

[2:18:26] all the percentages add up to more than a hundred.

[2:18:28] So, so people are using more than one system in town.

[2:18:30] Correct. And I wonder if that that's

[2:18:32] how they learned about the survey to get involved.

[2:18:37] I, I, I think sampling people

[2:18:40] who didn't, I mean, this is hard.

[2:18:41] People who didn't take the survey,

[2:18:42] I think necessarily are probably less

[2:18:45] plugged into the news channels

[2:18:47] and so didn't know

[2:18:48] to take the survey in the first place. It was mailed in your house

[2:18:51] Though.

[2:18:52] Well, yeah, 3000. The, so

[2:18:53] what you're looking at actually are the, the,

[2:18:56] these results are the, from the 3000 postcards Okay.

[2:18:59] That were mailed. Okay.

[2:19:01] So, okay, that's good then. Thank you.

[2:19:04] And then the barriers the residents currently perceive

[2:19:06] to living in Needham age being, you know,

[2:19:11] the, the top one at only 31%

[2:19:15] and you can see the rest there.

[2:19:18] So that, that's a lot of information to share.

[2:19:22] Again, i, I picked sort of the highlights

[2:19:24] because there is a lot of data.

[2:19:29] Does anybody have any questions?

[2:19:30] Yes. Actually, just a comment.

[2:19:31] First of all, thank you very much.

[2:19:32] Yes, this is great about the stormwater

[2:19:37] real credit goes to DPW.

[2:19:40] They've done so many projects to work on this

[2:19:42] and address issues project by project

[2:19:45] and talk to neighborhoods.

[2:19:47] So they, they're the ones who push those numbers up.

[2:19:51] Good for that. Agreed.

[2:19:52] Great. Anything else?

[2:19:56] Anyone helpful?

[2:19:58] You're hanging out. We have more stuff to cover.

[2:20:00] Yes, we do, we do. Done, I'm not done.

[2:20:04] I I have a question. Sure. For a comment.

[2:20:08] I guess one of the worst

[2:20:11] marks on here actually I think directly reflects on the

[2:20:13] select board, which is the governance,

[2:20:16] the overall direction that Needham is taking.

[2:20:19] And generally even worse than that, I guess in my mind,

[2:20:22] the generally acting in the best interest of the community

[2:20:25] that we lost ground

[2:20:27] and that our numbers are lower here than in other places.

[2:20:31] Do we have any ideas?

[2:20:33] I I, were there,

[2:20:35] do people write anything or just check a box?

[2:20:37] Do we have any ideas what this is about? So

[2:20:40] There is no open response

[2:20:44] ability in, in this particular survey.

[2:20:47] So it, it was basically multiple choice.

[2:20:50] So to expand upon that, all I can comment is that again,

[2:20:53] this is, this is trending not only locally, but nationally.

[2:20:58] There's a decline in trust in government across the board.

[2:21:03] I think we see that Every, I guess putting the national

[2:21:06] aside for a moment, I mean if we look at the six

[2:21:10] peer communities in Massachusetts,

[2:21:12] did they go down on these measures?

[2:21:16] They did. They're, they rank similar

[2:21:20] to, to where we did.

[2:21:25] But were they lower last survey as well

[2:21:28] That I can look into?

[2:21:30] I can't, I don't have that date in front of me,

[2:21:32] but I can, I can check on that for you.

[2:21:34] Thank you.

[2:21:39] Anything else, Kathy? No, that was it.

[2:21:43] Okay. Okay, Moving along.

[2:21:49] So as everybody knows, the New Town Seal was adopted

[2:21:51] by town, meaning in May of 2026

[2:21:56] and the New Town Seal is being rolled out.

[2:22:01] Town manager and I met with the town clerk to

[2:22:07] discuss and review what constitutes an official document

[2:22:11] because the Town seal should only be used on

[2:22:14] official town documents, whereas the New Town logo is going

[2:22:18] to be used on other things, you know, like vehicles

[2:22:21] and trash cans and clothing, that sort of thing.

[2:22:25] So with the New Town Seal, one of the things

[2:22:30] that does go on is our Town flag.

[2:22:33] And the Town flag, as you may all know, is actually hung,

[2:22:37] there's 351 flags from each municipality in

[2:22:41] the Hall of Flags at the

[2:22:43] Massachusetts State House in Boston.

[2:22:46] And so we are going to need to replace the flag,

[2:22:50] which I actually have here to show you,

[2:22:53] but there's two different versions of it.

[2:22:55] And so Katie

[2:22:56] and I thought it would be a nice exercise to go through

[2:23:01] to show you what the flags look like,

[2:23:03] and then you can decide which one.

[2:23:05] But I'm in touch with Representative Taki's office to see

[2:23:09] how we might be able to schedule some type

[2:23:12] of ceremonial flag raising of sorts to replace,

[2:23:16] because, you know, in, in our lifetime, this will

[2:23:19] probably be the only time the flag is replaced.

[2:23:26] So, So there are two different versions.

[2:23:30] There is the version on a white background.

[2:23:35] This is a completely white version.

[2:23:42] So that's What that looks like.

[2:23:46] Front big screen TV you can talk to.

[2:23:50] Okay. And then Her

[2:23:56] Selectman themes request, we put it on

[2:24:02] a Navy background

[2:24:07] and I'll add that, you know, Kevin chaired the town branding

[2:24:12] and Town Needham branding and Town Seal committee,

[2:24:16] and it was many, many months worth of

[2:24:20] conversations about the Town Seal

[2:24:23] to, to bring us to this point.

[2:24:25] And so now we have two options here for the flag

[2:24:28] to be raised at the State House.

[2:24:32] Kevin, why did you choose Blue?

[2:24:36] I think there's a joke somewhere that a lot

[2:24:38] of them just do the bed sheet, like, yeah, so many flags.

[2:24:40] There's, oh, it's just another bed sheet

[2:24:42] with a seal on it. So it's like, let's,

[2:24:44] Let's try Blue.

[2:24:46] IIII go to haul the flags every year for an event

[2:24:49] and it's very hard when there's 351 flags up there

[2:24:53] to find the flag because they're all white.

[2:24:55] Yes. So it would be helpful, I think, to be a blue.

[2:25:00] I mean, they have a little interactive thing

[2:25:01] where you could press button and they say, look at,

[2:25:03] you know, the third row up, the 12 flag down.

[2:25:05] But even with that, when there so many white

[2:25:08] that I would, I'm down with blue.

[2:25:10] That one blue. All right. Yeah. Yeah.

[2:25:14] I think blue's got my vote too.

[2:25:15] It seems like it's got more gravitas.

[2:25:17] I don't, you can kind of see through the white a little bit.

[2:25:20] It, yeah, I, I'm not, I don't think it,

[2:25:24] this is also just more our colors blue and yellow.

[2:25:27] Gold. Gold, yeah. You know, that's good. You agree? Yeah.

[2:25:31] Done all well, thanks. Just fix a tight Thank you, Jackie.

[2:25:35] Kathy? Kathy, do you have a, oh, we lost Kathy.

[2:25:38] No bed sheet. No bed sheet. All thank you. All right.

[2:25:42] No one will also go in Powell Hall, right? Yes,

[2:25:46] Correct.

[2:25:47] Yes. Excellent. Okay.

[2:25:52] All right, so moving right along

[2:25:53] and I will try to be brief about this.

[2:25:56] I know you have lots still on your agenda.

[2:25:59] Just wanted to walk through some communication highlights

[2:26:01] over the last year.

[2:26:02] I was here just one year ago giving you an update.

[2:26:06] So as we just talked about, worked with a need and branding

[2:26:08] and Town Seal committee developed the new

[2:26:10] town branding of the Town Seal.

[2:26:12] The logo had was rolled out about a year and a half ago.

[2:26:16] And so everything that needed to have the logo on it is,

[2:26:20] is already does, including all of the big belly trash cans

[2:26:24] around town, the vehicles, et cetera.

[2:26:29] So the other highlights increased outreach

[2:26:32] to stakeholders of the last year.

[2:26:33] Social media followers grew by 8%.

[2:26:36] It's so fascinating to me to, to watch, to see

[2:26:40] what gets people excited.

[2:26:42] One of the, you know, every,

[2:26:44] anytime we have anything about veterans

[2:26:45] or there's any kind of ceremony

[2:26:47] that gets a lot of engagement.

[2:26:49] But then last summer we actually had our new conservation

[2:26:51] specialist saved a snapping turtle in

[2:26:56] the reservoir along with the assistant town engineer.

[2:26:59] And that just blew up and it was shared a million times

[2:27:01] and people love sort of the heartwarming feel good stuff.

[2:27:04] So any opportunity I have to be able to share sort

[2:27:08] of the human side of,

[2:27:09] of local government, I, I try to do that.

[2:27:11] Our newsletter subscribers grew by 8%, which is also,

[2:27:16] which is also great, heading in the right direction.

[2:27:19] We still have the popup screen when you go to the website

[2:27:22] that asks you if you want to subscribe.

[2:27:25] If you're sick of seeing it, you could, you could hit close

[2:27:27] and do not show again.

[2:27:28] So it doesn't keep popping up.

[2:27:30] And then continuing to increase the number

[2:27:33] of social media posts

[2:27:34] and news flashes, poco surveys

[2:27:37] beyond the national community survey.

[2:27:40] We, I also worked to publish

[2:27:45] a few other surveys that, which

[2:27:46] we're gonna get into in a second.

[2:27:47] And then continuing to cultivate

[2:27:49] relationships with local media.

[2:27:50] So Needham is viewed as a valuable resource

[2:27:53] for local news outlets.

[2:27:55] So because we're fortunate to have, you know, NBC 10

[2:27:59] and also WCBB Channel five here locally,

[2:28:03] they often will call

[2:28:04] and if they, you know, it's, it's convenient for them

[2:28:06] to just come down, you know, Highland Avenue to

[2:28:09] find somebody to interview.

[2:28:11] So we often, I often get phone calls saying like, oh,

[2:28:15] you know, we need to local sha and Carig is always wonderful

[2:28:18] and, and in and accommodating requests for interviews,

[2:28:22] especially during storms.

[2:28:25] But they, they love to have the need and perspective

[2:28:29] and also, not just because we're convenient, but also

[2:28:32] because we're a respected source for information

[2:28:35] and, and expertise.

[2:28:36] So the public health department has been interviewed a lot.

[2:28:39] And even most recently I get a call

[2:28:42] during the first heat wave of the summer from

[2:28:47] the assignment editor at Channel five

[2:28:48] and said, can we do the weather broadcast

[2:28:51] from the Rosemary pool?

[2:28:52] And so I called Stacy Mulroy and she said, send 'em on down.

[2:28:55] So, you know, as long as we don't have,

[2:28:58] you know, children in the background.

[2:28:59] So they, they just wanted a nice background

[2:29:01] and they've also done the reservoir.

[2:29:03] So I like to be accommodating whenever possible,

[2:29:06] but that's a great opportunity to,

[2:29:08] to get Needham on the map.

[2:29:10] Alright, so jumping to communication tools, the website,

[2:29:13] we did a re I did a refresh last September,

[2:29:18] moved things around because I can see the Google analytics

[2:29:22] and I kind of nerd out sometimes

[2:29:24] and see what people are searching

[2:29:26] and what are the most frequently visited pages.

[2:29:29] The calendar section continues to be one of the tops.

[2:29:33] So having it now in the top right hand corner allows people

[2:29:35] to get the information right away that they're seeking.

[2:29:39] So new photos, fresh graphics, we have, you know,

[2:29:42] the hot topic buttons at the bottom

[2:29:43] that change occasionally depending on, you know,

[2:29:46] what is considered a hot topic at the time.

[2:29:49] And then the how do I, you know,

[2:29:53] letting folks find the information

[2:29:55] quickly that they're seeking.

[2:29:57] Like, how do I get an RTS sticker?

[2:29:59] How do I register to vote?

[2:30:00] How do I get a license for my dog? That sort of thing.

[2:30:04] How do I sign up for the Memorial Park line board?

[2:30:10] Okay, next slide please.

[2:30:14] Okay, so newsflash and notify me.

[2:30:17] So newsflash, I can post

[2:30:21] newsworthy items

[2:30:22] that we wanna get people's attention right when they go

[2:30:24] to the website and, and folks can sign up for notifications

[2:30:28] for, for newsflash, in fact.

[2:30:30] So let me jump to the next thing.

[2:30:32] Notify me if you go to the,

[2:30:33] if it's just needham ma.gov/notify me, you can sign up for,

[2:30:37] as I mentioned earlier, you know, public meeting notices,

[2:30:40] water restriction alerts, that sort of thing.

[2:30:42] But when I do news flashes to let folks know, for example,

[2:30:45] yesterday that the

[2:30:47] water restrictions were downgraded to level one.

[2:30:51] I did that as a news flash and it it went out.

[2:30:55] Okay, next slide please.

[2:30:58] The newsletter continues to be very popular

[2:31:03] and I, you know, check every week to see

[2:31:05] what the open rate is

[2:31:06] and I can tell whether or not people open it.

[2:31:08] So if you don't open up your newsletter, I can actually

[2:31:11] tell, I don't, I don't spy that closely.

[2:31:15] But it, the analytics actually are, are pretty fascinating.

[2:31:18] And I posted also to social media

[2:31:20] and we get a lot of readers through,

[2:31:22] through the posts of social media as well.

[2:31:25] So we're up to about 8,000 subscribers now, which is,

[2:31:29] which is again really awesome.

[2:31:31] It's heading in the right direction. Okay.

[2:31:35] Social media, we're up to about 5,700 followers.

[2:31:40] Instagram about 3000.

[2:31:42] Anybody who likes anything on our page, I immediately check,

[2:31:46] it's a slight obsession of mine

[2:31:48] to see if they actually already follow our page.

[2:31:49] And if they don't, I immediately invite them.

[2:31:51] So I can also see how people like our page

[2:31:55] because they saw one of our reels or they saw a post

[2:31:59] and then I can see actually how they came to us.

[2:32:01] So that's kind of fascinating.

[2:32:04] And in Blue Sky and Threads I've been asked about

[2:32:06] that They don't currently have the ability

[2:32:09] to be backed up on our social media archive software.

[2:32:13] That is actually through Civic Plus.

[2:32:14] I've asked when they're gonna do that

[2:32:16] and I, there's no definitive date, so we don't use those

[2:32:20] as platforms to post to because they cannot be backed up.

[2:32:23] And so if there was ever, you know,

[2:32:24] a FOIA request specific to that.

[2:32:27] So that's why we don't use it. But we have handles saved.

[2:32:30] So should, should they be integrated into social media

[2:32:34] archive, we can start using those as well and test.

[2:32:37] Okay. Poco surveys. Next slide please.

[2:32:42] We just talked about National Community survey,

[2:32:45] but we also, I also did surveys

[2:32:47] through large house envisioned center.

[2:32:50] That was a huge, that was about

[2:32:52] 2,800 responses to that survey.

[2:32:56] The mural design for Highland Ave that John

[2:33:00] and Liz were just talking about and the street design guide.

[2:33:03] So we had about 4,200 responses through the survey,

[2:33:07] through surveys this year.

[2:33:10] Next slide please. In community engagement, I continue

[2:33:14] to try to connect with local nonprofits.

[2:33:18] They reach out to me all the time asking me

[2:33:20] to include their information on our community calendar,

[2:33:23] the website, and also in the newsletter.

[2:33:25] I love to go out

[2:33:27] and visit with the residents whenever possible.

[2:33:30] I've now been to Wingate a couple of times

[2:33:34] and have spoken to residents there just to talk

[2:33:37] to them about the town, how to volunteer opportunities

[2:33:40] or how to stay informed and engaged.

[2:33:41] And they, they were a really, you know, excited group

[2:33:45] of folks and they had some really great questions.

[2:33:48] So very interested in, in, you know, projects and

[2:33:53] because, you know, the,

[2:33:54] the former Muzzy site is right across the street from them.

[2:33:57] They wanna know what's going on,

[2:33:58] but they, they have a lot of questions

[2:34:00] and they're very well informed.

[2:34:02] So that's been, it's been really rewarding.

[2:34:04] So hope to do more of that in the year ahead.

[2:34:08] So other things in process, I am working on a template

[2:34:12] for a town wide mailing

[2:34:13] that we are talking about doing twice a year in the

[2:34:17] fall and in the spring.

[2:34:19] And so it would be information that would be a preview

[2:34:23] for folks On major initiatives, how

[2:34:28] to stay informed, how to get involved,

[2:34:30] how to provide their feedback.

[2:34:32] And also if there is public, you know,

[2:34:34] public engagement sessions coming up, it's really important

[2:34:38] to, you know, try to get that out.

[2:34:39] And so speaking of community engagement,

[2:34:41] when we do have public engagement sessions,

[2:34:43] public information sessions, it's not just the usual,

[2:34:46] you know, throw it up on the website

[2:34:48] or put the newsletter, it's sharing flyers, you know,

[2:34:51] going over to the Ham housing authority

[2:34:53] and sharing them there, bringing 'em over to the library

[2:34:55] to cath, trying to get people, you know, where they are

[2:34:58] and so they, they know what's going on.

[2:35:02] So that is it in a nutshell.

[2:35:07] I tried to be brief,

[2:35:08] but if anybody has any questions, I am glad to answer them.

[2:35:13] Thank you. This is quite a lot of activity. Yeah.

[2:35:19] Much appreciated and takes some time to digest,

[2:35:23] but much appreciated.

[2:35:24] Great. I look forward to looking at all

[2:35:26] of the information on the grape site. What,

[2:35:28] What communication challenges

[2:35:31] or hurdles do you look to overcome in the coming year?

[2:35:37] I often say I, I don't ever wanna hear people say,

[2:35:40] I had no idea that was going on.

[2:35:42] So that continues to be, you know, my, my biggest challenge.

[2:35:45] So I try to think through, you know, if you're,

[2:35:48] if you're not on social media, if you're not subscribed

[2:35:50] to the newsletter, you know,

[2:35:52] how are you gonna find out about what's going on?

[2:35:54] And we're fortunate to have, you know,

[2:35:56] two local news outlets here in Needham that,

[2:35:59] that folks are very well informed of,

[2:36:01] but constantly sort of thinking outside of the box.

[2:36:03] So, you know, doing a lot of sort

[2:36:05] of the grassroots outreach, I think is, is effective.

[2:36:09] So connecting with nonprofits and,

[2:36:11] and building rapports with, with folks like that.

[2:36:13] And, and I think generally just providing sort

[2:36:18] of a, an opportunity for, for people to, to connect.

[2:36:23] I, I get responses all the time from the newsletter I've

[2:36:26] got, I've gotten suggestions on things, you know,

[2:36:28] to improve the newsletter and I appreciate the feedback.

[2:36:31] So I just, you know, I wish there were more hours in a day.

[2:36:34] I would love to be able to do more, more with video, more

[2:36:39] with, you know, feature stories.

[2:36:41] So

[2:36:42] Thank you.

[2:36:43] We'll get there. Thank you. Of course.

[2:36:46] I would just, you know, local government is a communications

[2:36:50] business and so thank you for doing it

[2:36:52] 'cause this is a big part of what we do.

[2:36:54] Great. Thank you.

[2:36:56] Thank you. Alright. Excellent. Terrific. Thanks very much.

[2:36:59] Thank you. I'm gonna propose a five minute recess

[2:37:04] or at least I'm going to take a short recess.

[2:37:07] So,

[2:37:14] so we're, we're resuming our meeting

[2:37:17] and we are here with our traffic regulation amendments

[2:37:21] with our director of DPWK SIG

[2:37:25] and Justin Cullen who is the chair of the

[2:37:29] traffic safety committee.

[2:37:30] Thank you. Traffic safety committee.

[2:37:32] I can remember which one all.

[2:37:34] So tell us all the things, maybe

[2:37:38] We'll start like an overview

[2:37:40] and then we can go into each one.

[2:37:41] Yes please. But these are all items that have been brought

[2:37:44] to the town through the Traffic Safety Committee.

[2:37:47] The Traffic Safety Committee has vetted

[2:37:49] through all these items, all the abutters have been notified

[2:37:52] and communicated with to see if there's any concerns

[2:37:54] about these regulations.

[2:37:56] And relatively speaking, they're sort

[2:37:58] of small incremental changes.

[2:38:00] The first one you have in front of you is this a change

[2:38:02] to a small portion of Grove Street

[2:38:05] where there is an island in the middle of the road

[2:38:07] and it is just delineating that the side of the road

[2:38:13] that would typically have outbound traffic will be one way

[2:38:16] and not two way traffic.

[2:38:18] Okay. There Been incidents,

[2:38:23] No specific incidents,

[2:38:24] but then it was brought to the attention

[2:38:26] of the TSC by Abutters.

[2:38:28] Yeah. So there it was anecdotally it wasn't,

[2:38:30] we didn't confirm through police

[2:38:32] or any sort of accident data,

[2:38:33] but it was anecdotally brought up to us

[2:38:35] with regards to that anecdote.

[2:38:36] It did lead to potentially

[2:38:39] increased conflict between vehicles.

[2:38:41] Kind Of. I see on the proposal

[2:38:44] that you gave us property one, you know

[2:38:45] where you're gonna place the one way signs

[2:38:48] and if you've spoken to that homeowner,

[2:38:50] that homeowner is who's on both sides of, he agreed

[2:38:52] because it almost looks like he's, he if he comes outta

[2:38:56] that driveway, I don't know whether the blockage,

[2:38:57] but it won't matter that much

[2:38:58] because he turned him right onto one way.

[2:39:00] So I don't think it'll matter that much,

[2:39:02] but I just don't know whether you've spoke the him

[2:39:04] They're aware and they're aware of the location of the,

[2:39:08] Just quick question on,

[2:39:13] on the other side of the island, is that two way

[2:39:16] or is it just, so it's, there are two ways to go on

[2:39:20] to Charles River Street, correct?

[2:39:22] Correct. Correct. Okay. Yes.

[2:39:25] I mean I'm not suggesting we do a project where you just

[2:39:29] combine the island with the other side

[2:39:32] because that costs money but this is a sign change. Right.

[2:39:34] I do know and obviously cares can disc it.

[2:39:37] I know there have been talks about future project

[2:39:39] that maybe would some sort of road improvement be done there

[2:39:42] to either eliminate that island or do something,

[2:39:45] but I think that's kind of like a blue sky Okay thing.

[2:39:47] But it had been touched as that could be some sort

[2:39:49] of geometric improvement in the future. Okay.

[2:39:52] Seems considerably lower cost.

[2:39:54] Yes. Right.

[2:39:56] Yeah. Okay great.

[2:40:00] I definitely always feel like a

[2:40:04] dork when I come up to one of these intersections

[2:40:06] and realize that I could have taken the two lane

[2:40:09] but I took the one lane and now I have to go.

[2:40:11] But it's worth it to reduce potential conflicts

[2:40:15] between vehicles so people will learn their way

[2:40:18] around it. Quickly enough

[2:40:20] Madam Chair, I would move that the board vote to approve

[2:40:23] and sign the notice of traffic regulation permit number R 26

[2:40:26] dash oh eight dash 11 requiring that the rest,

[2:40:29] the West fork portion of Grove Street southbound

[2:40:32] of Charles River Street be designated as a one way street.

[2:40:34] Second.

[2:40:36] All right, so we'll take a vote. Kathy? Yes.

[2:40:41] Bill? Yes. Josh? Yes. Kevin. Aye. And I vote yes as well.

[2:40:46] So excellent.

[2:40:47] That one is disposed of as they say next.

[2:40:52] The next one is at the intersection of Forest Street

[2:40:57] and Central Avenue and you'll see from the rendering

[2:41:00] that you have, it would be adding a no turn on ri,

[2:41:04] a red sign from central onto forest.

[2:41:07] This is a, a crosswalk that is heavily utilized I think

[2:41:13] oftentimes by families who are utilizing the farm next door.

[2:41:16] We have talked to Valante about the change

[2:41:18] and they are aware of it as well.

[2:41:22] Okay. Does, does this walkway have one

[2:41:24] of those lights light that light up or no,

[2:41:27] This is a fully signaled intersection

[2:41:30] but the issue is, is if somebody,

[2:41:32] in theory you have a red light you can pause

[2:41:35] and then you can go and take a right hand

[2:41:36] Turn.

[2:41:37] Like if it's flashing you're not gonna go.

[2:41:38] There's no indication when you're at a typical signaled

[2:41:41] intersection if it's for a pedestrian phase

[2:41:43] or if it's for the opposite lane of traffic.

[2:41:45] So there's no distinction.

[2:41:47] It's just a regular red light that you would have

[2:41:49] as if forest had a green light.

[2:41:51] I mean my own and I and I haven't done traffic study

[2:41:54] but I've seen Central Avenue in the afternoon

[2:41:56] how far backed up it gets

[2:41:57] and I don't know whether it's gonna back it up

[2:41:59] more because you can't take a right turn.

[2:42:00] It probably would be minimal. But

[2:42:03] I do know that our traffic engineering

[2:42:07] has taken a look at this and I know it did not send any

[2:42:10] concerns through our engineering division.

[2:42:14] Okay. I also know that

[2:42:16] because of the bump out at the curb, you have to,

[2:42:19] if you were to take a right, you have

[2:42:20] to go into the center of the

[2:42:22] Correct.

[2:42:23] That was one of the concerns of why we would do this change.

[2:42:26] Yes, you're

[2:42:30] Given its proximity to the farm

[2:42:32] and then I, I think the school kids,

[2:42:36] this is a school route so I mean I think this makes sense.

[2:42:39] I, I agree I would be worried about the backup

[2:42:42] but for pedestrian safety it strikes me as worth where the

[2:42:46] Trade off, if engineering did not bring

[2:42:48] that up then it wouldn't be a concern

[2:42:49] 'cause they would probably have brought it up.

[2:42:51] Usually when it comes to right turn on reds,

[2:42:53] it's not like a major right congestion reducer

[2:42:56] because you have to have the vehicle

[2:42:57] that's teed up at the intersection at

[2:43:00] that time wanting to take a Right.

[2:43:01] As soon as somebody wants to go straight, forget it,

[2:43:04] you no longer have that benefit.

[2:43:06] Right. Okay.

[2:43:09] So would anybody like to make a, a motion Madam

[2:43:11] Chair?

[2:43:12] I make a motion to the board vote to approve

[2:43:14] and sign the notice

[2:43:15] of traffic regulation permit number NTOR 26 dash

[2:43:20] zero seven dash 21 requiring

[2:43:22] that a no turn on red restriction be established

[2:43:25] for Central Avenue southbound at the intersection

[2:43:28] of Forest Street second.

[2:43:31] Okay. And we'll vote again. Kathy? Yes. Bill? Yes.

[2:43:36] Josh? Yes. Kevin Aye And I vote yes as well.

[2:43:41] Thank you. Okay. And then the last,

[2:43:46] The last one that we have is a parking restriction on

[2:43:48] Greendale Avenue towards Webster Street.

[2:43:51] The butters actually came to the TSC with a petition

[2:43:55] to request that one side

[2:43:57] of this section be limited for parking.

[2:44:00] The town evaluated which side would be the least impactful.

[2:44:02] And this side was indicated the temple has been made aware

[2:44:06] of this particular request

[2:44:08] and the, they've indicated that they're supportive of it.

[2:44:12] We do know that we've talked with them regarding sort

[2:44:16] of high holiday events or high function events when they

[2:44:18] often engage a police detail officer anyways.

[2:44:21] And that would be at the discretion of the detail officer

[2:44:23] how to manage that intersection during those events.

[2:44:26] Okay. I mean this isn't

[2:44:31] gonna reduce the number of cars, it's just gonna move them

[2:44:34] to park different places.

[2:44:35] I think the concern was people getting out

[2:44:36] of their driveways and then maneuvering, you know,

[2:44:39] between cars staggered on either side as opposed to Correct.

[2:44:43] Limiting the number of cars.

[2:44:46] Okay, so if they're all parked on one side then you

[2:44:51] have more space to go through.

[2:44:53] I know people yeah. Yeah people on my street all the time.

[2:44:56] People park on both sides of the street

[2:44:58] and then you're like trying to squeeze through,

[2:45:02] which is, can be challenging

[2:45:04] And I think from a, you know,

[2:45:05] an emergency vehicle access perspective, just like it was on

[2:45:09] across from Dio Georgia jacket.

[2:45:12] Yeah J yeah there was concern there of, you know,

[2:45:14] cars on both sides just as like, like it came in front

[2:45:16] of the, the select board here before this is kind of

[2:45:17] that same scenario where you have a very narrow road

[2:45:20] and you do have potentially a lot of cars that do park.

[2:45:23] So for both residents as well

[2:45:25] as the A Temple overflow. Okay.

[2:45:27] So that makes sense Madam Chair would move

[2:45:29] that the board vote to approve it silently notice

[2:45:31] of traffic regulation permit number R 26 dash eight dash 11

[2:45:35] requiring that parking be prohibited on the east side

[2:45:38] of Greendale lab between Webster Street and Davenport Road.

[2:45:41] Second. Thanks Bill. Thanks Kevin.

[2:45:44] Okay, any, any more discussion?

[2:45:47] I, I anticipate that this is going to lead to other,

[2:45:52] like there may be knock on effects that people,

[2:45:54] because people can't park here,

[2:45:55] they will park on other streets

[2:45:56] and people on those streets will come

[2:45:58] and ask for no parking signs and,

[2:46:03] And we'll monitor.

[2:46:04] 'cause that was actually, that was something

[2:46:05] that came up when I think the town probably 10 years ago

[2:46:08] started to do no parking

[2:46:10] around commuter rail stations in order to reduce the amount

[2:46:12] of cars that we parking during the day.

[2:46:14] And I don't think it really manifested too much.

[2:46:17] I think it was just like, you know,

[2:46:18] it's the other guy was saying change is sometimes

[2:46:20] hard, but I don't know.

[2:46:21] We'll, we'll carefully monitor that.

[2:46:23] But yes, that's something that I've always said at the,

[2:46:26] at the TSC for like the 10 years that I've been on it is,

[2:46:28] you know, we can't just put signs everywhere

[2:46:30] but this is, you know, something that made a good case

[2:46:33] and obviously with the temples, with the, an officer

[2:46:35] who would be able to at least allow

[2:46:37] that if in fact they needed overflow parking

[2:46:40] during the high holidays

[2:46:41] and to, to be able to manage that on,

[2:46:43] on those few days a year I think is appropriate

[2:46:46] And hopefully the temple can help to inform their,

[2:46:49] The congregation Yes. Their

[2:46:50] Congregation about the need to make sure

[2:46:53] that emergency vehicles can pass. So

[2:46:56] Yeah, I think the main concern that came

[2:46:57] to the committee was really on the regular work days

[2:47:01] and related to the childcare facility that's there.

[2:47:06] And so what I sort of heard was it's not parked, you know,

[2:47:10] on a regular basis on both sides of the road, it's

[2:47:13] that people aren't thoughtful about where they park

[2:47:15] so they don't stagger necessarily

[2:47:16] and you get these choke points.

[2:47:18] So by diverting everybody onto one side of the road,

[2:47:20] you're at least creating sort of more

[2:47:21] of an orderly system than what we currently have.

[2:47:24] Okay. All right.

[2:47:25] Well so we'll we'll try it

[2:47:27] and if there's issues we'll adjust.

[2:47:29] We'll figure Yep. Yeah. Okay. I think that makes sense.

[2:47:34] And we have a motion on the table and a second

[2:47:37] and so if there are no more discussions then we will go

[2:47:41] to a vote and we'll start with Kathy.

[2:47:44] Yes, bill? Yes, Josh? Yes. Kevin.

[2:47:47] Aye Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

[2:47:52] All right, fantastic.

[2:47:55] Enjoy the rest of your evening. Thank

[2:47:57] You.

[2:47:59] Next we're gonna talk about Dedham Avenue intersection at

[2:48:01] South Street and improvements.

[2:48:04] Excellent. So I am here, Tyler is actually remote.

[2:48:07] He had a, a situation that required him to be at home,

[2:48:11] but we wanted to update you on the progress of a grant

[2:48:15] that the town has applied for the town applied for the

[2:48:19] masts local bottleneck grant.

[2:48:21] This is the second time we've applied for the grant.

[2:48:23] The first time we did was

[2:48:24] for the two intersections in the

[2:48:26] downtown on Great Plain Avenue.

[2:48:28] Just a little bit explaining how this grant works

[2:48:32] 'cause it's a little different than some of the ones

[2:48:33] where you're seeking specific funding.

[2:48:35] This is sort of a engineering grant with construction sort

[2:48:39] of as a secondary application.

[2:48:42] The primary grant is really to look at intersections

[2:48:44] that we have within the town that meet criteria

[2:48:46] as identified by the state

[2:48:48] where we feel like there might be congestion issues

[2:48:50] or bottlenecks currently.

[2:48:51] And then the state

[2:48:52] and get gauges their own engineering's process

[2:48:56] to help consult the town on what could be done

[2:48:58] to alleviate those congestion items.

[2:49:01] So sometimes that results in construction

[2:49:04] and sometimes it really results in limited work

[2:49:06] like we saw in the downtown.

[2:49:08] So when we enter into this process,

[2:49:09] we don't necessarily know what the outcome will be.

[2:49:13] So when the last round came up,

[2:49:16] Dedham Abbot South Street was on our list of intersections

[2:49:19] to be evaluated and

[2:49:20] because of its proximity to the highway met much

[2:49:23] of the criteria that was identified as part of this grant.

[2:49:26] We applied for the grant, received it,

[2:49:29] and are in the earlier phases of the design process

[2:49:33] after alternatives were rolled out for looking at

[2:49:36] that intersection, including things like rotaries

[2:49:39] or other treatments that could be used.

[2:49:41] And we wanted to present where we are

[2:49:43] and where we think this project will go as far

[2:49:46] as moving forward for funding for construction.

[2:49:49] So that I'll turn it over to Tyler.

[2:49:57] Good evening everybody. So this project,

[2:50:01] as Caris was explaining, is you don't need

[2:50:05] to have identified necessarily a solution

[2:50:09] before application.

[2:50:10] So the, the process is intended to

[2:50:16] address congestion issues at intersections,

[2:50:18] but it can also incorporate improvements for

[2:50:23] safety reasons, upgrading the technology

[2:50:27] of the signals as a way to enhance

[2:50:33] the performance of the intersection.

[2:50:35] So the main changes that are proposed as part

[2:50:39] of this project and so far we have a,

[2:50:45] it's it's, it's more, more like a 75% design,

[2:50:48] but essentially we have all

[2:50:50] of the surface level infrastructure is is designed

[2:50:54] traffic signal equipment improvements.

[2:50:58] A lot of the equipment at the intersection is, is quite old.

[2:51:01] You can see that it's more of the basic

[2:51:06] technology than some

[2:51:07] of the other signals that we have in town.

[2:51:10] It has only magnetic loop detection at the side streets.

[2:51:16] The side street approaches on, on South Street.

[2:51:20] The project would propose installing

[2:51:24] traffic camera detection in all direction that

[2:51:28] that has 360 degree view traffic in all directions

[2:51:33] and can actuate the signal based on inputs

[2:51:36] from all four directions.

[2:51:38] The other changes are the addition

[2:51:41] of a dedicated left turn lane coming out of town

[2:51:46] south eastbound on Dham Avenue.

[2:51:50] That is primarily

[2:51:52] because of the current condition where if there's cars

[2:51:56] that are, are queuing to go

[2:51:59] north up Dun Avenue into town from the other direction

[2:52:05] or they're turning left onto South Street, rather

[2:52:08] they queue up in the lane

[2:52:09] and that can block sight lines of oncoming traffic for those

[2:52:12] that are heading out of town.

[2:52:14] So when you're, when you're trying

[2:52:15] to make a left onto South Street, you kind of have

[2:52:18] to inch into the intersection so that you can see traffic

[2:52:22] around the, the line of cars waiting to turn left.

[2:52:25] So having a dedicated lane with a dedicated arrow signal

[2:52:30] would make that much safer.

[2:52:33] The other thing is that the South Street approach coming

[2:52:38] north eastbound across South Street to meet up

[2:52:43] with Dunham Avenue.

[2:52:45] Currently it is not striped as though it's two lanes,

[2:52:48] but it functionally is acting as if it is two lanes.

[2:52:51] And that's because of the dimensions are just short of

[2:52:57] allowing for two standard size lanes there.

[2:53:01] So this project would slightly adjust the dimensions, so

[2:53:05] to allow it to be striped as a dedicated turn lane for,

[2:53:10] for traffic turning right again heading out

[2:53:13] of town onto D Avenue from South Street.

[2:53:17] So this was, these recommendations were made

[2:53:20] after traffic data was collected by the consultant

[2:53:26] CHA that we're working with.

[2:53:29] So the, the, the changes were modeled through traffic,

[2:53:34] data, traffic projection software synchro

[2:53:38] to model the,

[2:53:40] how these changes would affect the intersection.

[2:53:43] The other thing that's important to mention is that the,

[2:53:46] the installation of pedestrian signals at this intersection.

[2:53:50] So there is a, a sidewalk at the very, the end of

[2:53:55] of Dham Avenue right in front of DPW

[2:53:58] that currently does not lead anywhere.

[2:54:01] This project would install

[2:54:05] a DA compliant ramps

[2:54:06] and pedestrian signals at that intersection

[2:54:10] to both make the existing pedestrian traffic safer.

[2:54:15] 'cause right now we have observed people

[2:54:18] crossing the intersection without any sort

[2:54:20] of signal just kind of dodging traffic,

[2:54:23] which is very unsafe.

[2:54:24] So it would allow for

[2:54:26] that exclusive phase when the button is pressed

[2:54:29] and enable us to explore future connection

[2:54:34] to Edgewater Drive neighborhood over the,

[2:54:37] the culvert that exists there.

[2:54:40] Those are the, the, the extent of the changes

[2:54:43] and how they, what is involved with this project.

[2:54:47] Currently we are in a phase where we are negotiating the

[2:54:53] utility pole relocations, which are kind of the, the thing

[2:54:57] that's gonna determine a lot of the project schedule.

[2:55:00] If we're not able to get those poles moved,

[2:55:01] then we're not gonna be able to fit all the equipment

[2:55:03] in its intended location.

[2:55:05] The other thing is that we're, there is a small

[2:55:10] overlap on the corner, one of the,

[2:55:14] the southwest corner with a property on Edgewater Drive

[2:55:19] and we've approached that a but

[2:55:21] and explained that this would be a small taking by the town,

[2:55:25] so that would require

[2:55:29] a town meeting approval of that.

[2:55:33] So that's, that's pretty much where, where the progress

[2:55:36] that we've made to this point.

[2:55:39] So we're still working through those utility pole

[2:55:41] relocations and taking,

[2:55:45] I just wanted to add too about the

[2:55:48] proposed projects developing off of 1 28 and Dham.

[2:55:52] So one thing I'll just sort

[2:55:54] of indicate is the general overall enhancements

[2:55:58] that are gonna be made as part of this project are going

[2:56:00] to increase the capacity

[2:56:01] that can be processed through this intersection.

[2:56:04] And the information that we have so far about

[2:56:06] what the intended throughput

[2:56:08] through this intersection will be has been conveyed

[2:56:11] to the engineer and will be taken into

[2:56:13] consideration as part of the design.

[2:56:17] And Yeah, they, that information,

[2:56:20] I'm under the impression that we also reached out to the,

[2:56:23] to the MEPA review with some information about this new

[2:56:27] proposed scheme.

[2:56:30] Yes. Everything you're getting presented, Tyler asked

[2:56:33] that we share with Mepa as an addendum to our comments

[2:56:36] to the campus at 1 28 project. And so we've done that

[2:56:38] Because this will be done

[2:56:39] before that project decision's made.

[2:56:42] Correct, yes. Okay, great.

[2:56:45] And Tyler, I'm sorry if I missed it,

[2:56:48] but I know that South Street is a big cyclist route.

[2:56:54] Is there possibility of getting some of those, you know,

[2:56:57] four feet signs

[2:56:59] and whatever else that might need to go up

[2:57:02] to protect those folks as this,

[2:57:05] as this is built to carry more traffic?

[2:57:08] So I think one of the con we,

[2:57:10] we've had this conversation about the signage

[2:57:13] and I think South Street's a perfect example.

[2:57:15] I think of the concerns we've had

[2:57:17] and it's sort of a philosoph philosophical decision, but

[2:57:21] because of the forefoot requirement

[2:57:24] that you must give a cyclist four feet

[2:57:26] of clearance when you pass them,

[2:57:29] I would say on many parts of South Street.

[2:57:32] So sort of two things. One is you are telling people they

[2:57:35] have to cross a double yellow line,

[2:57:37] which they're not supposed to cross.

[2:57:39] We know they do, but like from a truly

[2:57:42] road control perspective, they're not supposed to cross.

[2:57:44] And because of the topography of South Street,

[2:57:49] which is very curved,

[2:57:51] there are very few places where it's safe.

[2:57:53] And I think one of the concerns we've had is that if we sign

[2:57:56] that and somebody does give four feet of grace

[2:57:58] to a bicyclist and they get hit on a head on collision

[2:58:01] because there's no, there's not sufficient space

[2:58:04] for both vehicles to fit

[2:58:06] and also give forfeit of clearance if there isn't some,

[2:58:09] some responsibility or liability.

[2:58:11] So I know there are many communities

[2:58:13] that have installed them and they felt

[2:58:14] that this is an okay, you know, decision.

[2:58:17] I think we at public works have been concerned about

[2:58:19] what the implications would be

[2:58:22] because effectively on South Street in many locations you

[2:58:26] really have to go at the speed of a bicyclist

[2:58:28] because there is not sufficient space to pass.

[2:58:31] What is the speed limit on South Street? It

[2:58:34] Varies between 30 and 25 miles an hour

[2:58:39] 30 in this section.

[2:58:41] Yeah, I guess I'm wondering if that's appropriate, given

[2:58:46] what you said, like the the topography

[2:58:49] or the, the curvy nature

[2:58:50] or the road, if you can only see far enough ahead

[2:58:54] that you can't figure out how to safely pass,

[2:58:58] which you know, we should all know how to do

[2:59:00] because that's part of driving.

[2:59:03] Then I wonder if the speed limit should potentially come

[2:59:06] down because at that the kind of cyclist who's on that road

[2:59:12] is not like, it's not a child

[2:59:15] or a family cyclist, those are road bikers.

[2:59:19] They're moving at at a reasonable speed for that

[2:59:23] particular road for the most part.

[2:59:26] Not all the time of course, but for the most part.

[2:59:28] So I wonder if that's something

[2:59:30] that we should just think about.

[2:59:33] Yeah, the only comment I'll make is

[2:59:35] that typically speaking you set

[2:59:37] speed limits at 80% of the median speed.

[2:59:40] And I'll just say anecdotally from the RFPs

[2:59:42] or the feed speed feedback signs we've put out,

[2:59:46] many people are going well above 30 miles

[2:59:47] an hour in that section.

[2:59:50] Understood. But yes,

[2:59:51] but I don't know that that

[2:59:53] that's something we wanna condone.

[2:59:55] So

[2:59:57] Other I may, I it's, I think it's just important to note

[3:00:00] that changing the speed limit does not

[3:00:05] necessarily on its own influence speeding behavior.

[3:00:10] So we understood, we, you know, I think we're open

[3:00:14] to exploring that and,

[3:00:16] and we're not against it by any means.

[3:00:19] I think that we just don't want to change a number

[3:00:23] and then ev nothing really changes

[3:00:24] and then all of a sudden we have a bunch

[3:00:26] of non-compliant drivers who are

[3:00:29] dangerously above the speed limit.

[3:00:31] So we, we want to also do

[3:00:36] that in combination with other strategies if

[3:00:38] that's the goal is to reduce that, the functional speed.

[3:00:44] Sure. I think generally I'm hearing can we integrate

[3:00:46] more bicycle safety into this intersection?

[3:00:50] Yeah, I mean, I just think that we have to acknowledge

[3:00:53] that this in particular is, is frequented by

[3:00:59] cyclists and one particular kind of cyclist.

[3:01:02] So it's not, it's not like the variability

[3:01:04] that we might talk about through other sections of town.

[3:01:08] But just as Tyler is saying, just

[3:01:12] because you changed the science doesn't

[3:01:14] change the circumstance.

[3:01:15] I think just because, you know, I mean

[3:01:17] this condition exists, they're there,

[3:01:19] so we should just make sure

[3:01:20] that everyone's can be safe gentlemen,

[3:01:25] Hang. Go ahead Bill.

[3:01:26] So I have three questions

[3:01:29] right now coming down South Street.

[3:01:32] I see in the new plan actually that there's no turn on red

[3:01:35] onto Tima, whether you're coming down south

[3:01:38] and wanna take a right to go to Tima

[3:01:39] or if you're coming down south

[3:01:41] and wanna take a right into Needham, is that currently no.

[3:01:44] Turn on red? It is for both of those, yes.

[3:01:46] And then you were talking about the sidewalk.

[3:01:48] The sidewalk goes in front of the DPW building

[3:01:50] and then it just ends, doesn't it at South Street

[3:01:52] or does it go around the corner or?

[3:01:53] So it just ends, I'll say there's sort of two things

[3:01:56] that are crossing people or causing people to cross.

[3:01:59] So one is the proximity

[3:02:01] of the boat launch across the street.

[3:02:02] There's a lot of people who recreate

[3:02:03] between those two locations.

[3:02:05] So they end up sort

[3:02:06] of having a circuit or a loop that they do.

[3:02:08] And then the other one is really from

[3:02:10] that community at Edgewater.

[3:02:12] We do see a lot of people who will cut through,

[3:02:14] they'll walk, you know, sort of on people's yards basically

[3:02:18] to get over to that intersection and then they will cross.

[3:02:21] One other thing I just wanted to note,

[3:02:23] 'cause you highlighted already

[3:02:25] that we have no turn on red on South.

[3:02:27] We do have some frequency of accidents at this intersection.

[3:02:30] I can just say from having my building adjacent to it,

[3:02:33] it is not uncommon to have have accidents there

[3:02:38] and that those accidents have physically impacted the

[3:02:41] signals and that they have hit the

[3:02:43] signals repeatedly in the past.

[3:02:45] And so was the goal though,

[3:02:46] to have the crosswalk then have a sidewalk like go up south

[3:02:49] to the both lodge or have a sidewalk go up to Edgewater?

[3:02:52] I think that's the goal that we're looking,

[3:02:53] we're moving towards, there are just a few pieces in place,

[3:02:57] the culvert on South Street being the primary obstacle,

[3:03:00] trying to figure out how we could either accommodate it in

[3:03:02] the current right of way or cantilever it.

[3:03:04] And then I would say the same conversation could be had on

[3:03:07] the other side of South Street as well.

[3:03:09] And then I notice on this map that I have in front

[3:03:12] of me right now, it has the little planter where the welcome

[3:03:15] to Needham sign is

[3:03:16] and it says RET, which I hope that does not mean retire.

[3:03:19] I don't know what that means. What? What's it mean?

[3:03:25] It means retain. Okay, thanks.

[3:03:28] That's what I was Good answer.

[3:03:30] Thank you. Okay. Alright.

[3:03:32] Alright. Josh, Bill, you answered,

[3:03:34] you asked most of my questions.

[3:03:36] The other one was, was about biking the,

[3:03:40] it's particularly busy on South Street on the weekends.

[3:03:42] The, the survey says at most four bikes per hour.

[3:03:47] Do you know when the survey was conducted?

[3:03:49] I'd have to defer to Tyler,

[3:03:51] but I agree with you it's, it's more frequent on weekends,

[3:03:53] although it comes in spurts. Yeah,

[3:03:54] Yeah, for sure.

[3:03:56] The groups. Yeah, there was a memo

[3:03:58] that was distributed in your packet

[3:04:03] that describes the observation.

[3:04:07] I'm afraid I didn't get to

[3:04:08] read through the whole thing. Yeah,

[3:04:09] I it, yeah.

[3:04:10] So the it page,

[3:04:15] it's page four of the memo that's appended before the plans

[3:04:20] and it says, it talks about the data collection.

[3:04:24] It said that the, the counts were conducted Wednesday,

[3:04:28] April 15th and April 16th, 2025. Okay,

[3:04:33] Thank you.

[3:04:35] And I, I know you haven't gotten a chance yet

[3:04:37] and neither has Kathy, can I just ask,

[3:04:39] does the grant cover the total cost of this work or

[3:04:43] I'll have to, it's a, there's a small match from the town

[3:04:45] but Tyler, do you just wanna go through

[3:04:47] what the anticipated costs are?

[3:04:49] Yep. So after the plans in your packet,

[3:04:54] there is also a estimate

[3:04:58] provided from the, the designer.

[3:05:02] The total estimated total

[3:05:04] with contingency on this project is just shy

[3:05:07] of 700,000.

[3:05:11] The project, the grant that we're talking about,

[3:05:15] the bottleneck reduction grant will cover the first 500,000

[3:05:19] of the construction if the engineer determines that to be

[3:05:25] an a, a, an improvement either safety or

[3:05:28] or traffic performance.

[3:05:31] So the delta of that would would be covered

[3:05:36] by the town through either through local funds

[3:05:40] or through a chapter 90 allocation.

[3:05:46] This is yet to be finalized.

[3:05:50] Okay. And then if any

[3:05:55] alterations to this intersection were required

[3:05:59] or suggested for the function

[3:06:03] of the campus at 1 28, that would be,

[3:06:08] I'll just say like we And future.

[3:06:10] Yeah and we've sort of talked about it internally

[3:06:12] and you have a space limited area in which you can only

[3:06:17] develop to a certain extent

[3:06:19] and we believe that the design

[3:06:21] that we're working on will maximize the throughput.

[3:06:24] Trying to say, you know, you have a bridge on one side,

[3:06:27] you have dead a MAV

[3:06:29] and you have property owners on either side, right?

[3:06:31] So you only have so much space that you could extend for

[3:06:34] alternative turn lanes or something like that.

[3:06:36] So we feel fairly conf confident in this design as far

[3:06:39] as its ability to accommodate that additional traffic.

[3:06:42] Okay, thank you Kevin.

[3:06:44] No, this is really interesting.

[3:06:47] I spend too much time on maps like these.

[3:06:51] I find 'em fascinating and thank you.

[3:06:53] This intersection's always been over for

[3:06:57] how it was originally laid out.

[3:06:58] It's definitely heavily used. So thank you for updating it.

[3:07:04] Kathy, any comments? No, no questions.

[3:07:09] Thanks. Okay, thank you.

[3:07:16] And we'll stay with Kara's Lustig

[3:07:18] and move on to our next item,

[3:07:21] which is a discussion of win waste negotiations.

[3:07:27] For this thank you for,

[3:07:28] For this we're we're bringing up more superstars Stars

[3:07:32] council, Dave Davidson,

[3:07:35] deputy town manager and director of Finance.

[3:07:38] Welcome. Thank you.

[3:07:41] Okay, so the day that Met DeMare has been talking about

[3:07:45] for a long time is finally coming to fruition

[3:07:48] and our 20 year agreement with currently with wind waste

[3:07:53] is set to expire June 30th, 2028.

[3:07:56] That was originally negotiated as part of a large consortium

[3:08:02] that consisted over 30 communities, all

[3:08:05] of which have executed their own individual contracts, some

[3:08:08] of which actually expired June 30th, 2027.

[3:08:12] So while it feels like we are talking about this well in

[3:08:16] advance of our contract expiring, working

[3:08:19] with over 30 communities in order to try to negotiate

[3:08:22] with such a large partner, we know we'll take quite a bit

[3:08:24] of time in order to secure contracts in the time

[3:08:27] that we need in order to have a MSW vendor.

[3:08:32] So as I said for a little bit of history,

[3:08:36] we have a current contract with When Waste, when we

[3:08:40] executed it, it was a 10 year agreement

[3:08:43] with 10 option years.

[3:08:45] At about year eight the company was looking to sell

[3:08:48] and so wanted to get all of its contracts in line.

[3:08:51] So they actually opened up that extension early

[3:08:54] so they could ex extend it for later.

[3:08:56] As a consequence of this,

[3:08:57] we saw a significant reduction in our tonnage tipping fee

[3:09:02] to the point where the tipping fee last year was the first

[3:09:05] time that it matched what our tipping fee was 12 years ago.

[3:09:08] So it took us 12 years to catch back up to where we were.

[3:09:11] Very few things when you are purchasing do you get to take

[3:09:14] that much of a cut and for that long.

[3:09:17] That being said, we are acutely aware

[3:09:19] that we are likely paying under market value

[3:09:23] for our MSW

[3:09:25] and that we are anticipating an increase,

[3:09:27] which we've been discussing for several years.

[3:09:29] About a year ago, all the communities that were part

[3:09:32] of the original agreement met to try to discuss

[3:09:34] how we wanted to move forward.

[3:09:36] We've actually had the addition of about three communities

[3:09:38] come into that group who are not part of it and we had one

[3:09:42] or two smaller communities leave.

[3:09:44] Part of the constraints and the concerns

[3:09:45] that we have about the waste industry in Massachusetts is

[3:09:49] there are no new landfills.

[3:09:50] Most of them are being permitted to close

[3:09:52] or beyond their permit.

[3:09:53] We have no new waste energy facilities being created

[3:09:57] and there's not less trash being generated in the state.

[3:10:00] So we have waste and we need to figure out where to go.

[3:10:04] The AL option alternatives we have to,

[3:10:06] our current contract are really to ship that waste out

[3:10:11] of state on freight largely to Ohio and New York.

[3:10:16] So all the communities that have come together

[3:10:19] have been discussing how we as a group can come together

[3:10:21] to negotiate with win.

[3:10:23] As I mentioned, it was about 20 years ago,

[3:10:25] we lasted our major negotiation

[3:10:27] and as you can imagine, many of the players that were part

[3:10:29] of that contract to be their transition positions

[3:10:31] or are no longer employ, you know, they're all retired.

[3:10:34] So we've been trying to figure out

[3:10:36] and uncover some documentation about the method

[3:10:38] that we used 20 years ago to get this consortium together.

[3:10:43] We ended up discussing

[3:10:44] and talking to the firm that represented this group

[3:10:47] 20 years ago, KP Law.

[3:10:49] And their recommendation was

[3:10:51] to do an interm municipal agreement with Walpole

[3:10:54] and have Walpole manage the contract with KP Law

[3:10:57] for Legal Guidance.

[3:10:59] The group that I'm referring to has created a subcommittee

[3:11:03] that consists of seven different communities.

[3:11:05] Needham is one of those seven communities

[3:11:08] and that subcommittee is gonna be the committee

[3:11:10] in charge of negotiations.

[3:11:11] So it is intended

[3:11:13] that these municipal representatives will be doing the

[3:11:16] primary negotiation

[3:11:17] and that the legal expertise that we're soliciting is really

[3:11:21] to provide legal background and clarity for us.

[3:11:25] So with that I am asking the ability

[3:11:27] to join in this interim municipal agreement with Walpole

[3:11:30] so they can then contract with KP law.

[3:11:33] So that as in, first of all, we are trying to figure out

[3:11:37] how many communities are really

[3:11:39] willing to commit to move forward.

[3:11:41] We have given all the communities the deadline

[3:11:43] of August 31st to try to start our negotiations in earnest.

[3:11:49] And second of all, so we can start engaging

[3:11:52] with win wind waste.

[3:11:54] We haven't started any formal negotiations with them.

[3:11:57] They have given us a tour of the facility so we can sort

[3:11:59] of see the condition of, of what they have,

[3:12:01] what their capital plans are

[3:12:04] and kind of what benefit we have.

[3:12:07] One of the things I'll note is

[3:12:10] that while when waste is a very large entity

[3:12:13] and they have a significant foothold in the waste industry,

[3:12:17] this particular contract has a high value to them,

[3:12:21] we provide the sort of sta stable waste

[3:12:26] in this organi in this entity.

[3:12:28] They get a lot of construction waste

[3:12:29] or other large commercial waste.

[3:12:31] But MSW is sort of that like consistent feed slow burn

[3:12:35] for the incinerator that helps them meet their energy

[3:12:37] guidelines that they're supposed to to secure.

[3:12:41] And I just wanted to articulate,

[3:12:42] the two largest players in this group are Newton

[3:12:45] and Worcester as in terms of size

[3:12:47] and in terms of waste generation.

[3:12:51] Needham is the seventh largest community as part

[3:12:54] of this consortium, but I will indicate we are the fourth

[3:12:56] largest in terms of waste generation.

[3:12:59] Part of that is because we have become somewhat

[3:13:02] of a regional area for commercial waste.

[3:13:04] So we're taking in waste not just from residents,

[3:13:06] but we're also taking it from commercial haulers

[3:13:10] and source other people.

[3:13:11] And many of several of the other communities

[3:13:13] of comparable size to Needham have large,

[3:13:16] larger apartment complexes than Needham does,

[3:13:18] in which they have private entities

[3:13:20] that remove the waste and not the town.

[3:13:24] Okay. That's a lot of information. Kevin, you could

[3:13:28] You all without notes.

[3:13:29] Okay. A few notes. No, this sounds like it makes sense.

[3:13:34] I'm happy we got the ball going and it sounds reasonable.

[3:13:39] So yeah.

[3:13:41] Josh, you wanna, So this is just to negotiate,

[3:13:48] my understanding is like there would be individual contracts

[3:13:50] still between each municipality and wind waste.

[3:13:53] Would, would they have the same terms between all

[3:13:56] of the municipalities or is that subject to negotiation?

[3:13:58] So I think the intent is for them to have the same terms.

[3:14:02] You have many different communities

[3:14:03] who operate significantly different models.

[3:14:06] So you have communities that are fully

[3:14:10] municipally run in our transfer stations,

[3:14:14] all indicate Wellesley was not part of this in the past.

[3:14:17] They are looking to join as part of this program

[3:14:19] because of the capacity issues they have at

[3:14:21] the landfill they have contracted with.

[3:14:24] So you have those, the model similar to Needham,

[3:14:28] we send our materials there on oversized trucks.

[3:14:34] You then have communities

[3:14:36] that run their own collection services

[3:14:39] and then they go there and haul.

[3:14:40] They usually go there twice a day as part

[3:14:43] of their regular routes.

[3:14:44] And then you have communities that outsource their hauling

[3:14:48] and collect to this location.

[3:14:50] So the reason that we would all execute is our

[3:14:53] physical delivery is different.

[3:14:54] I will say for the original

[3:14:56] contract, the terms were all the same. Okay,

[3:14:58] Thank you Bill.

[3:15:01] Well I think it's great. We're getting ahead of it,

[3:15:03] you know, you gotta, I hate wasting time

[3:15:05] because it costs you more money.

[3:15:06] So I think the sooner we can get ahead of it,

[3:15:09] the better off we're gonna be.

[3:15:11] Great. Kathy?

[3:15:13] Yeah, I think this makes entire sense.

[3:15:16] I mean we need the, we need the volume to negotiate.

[3:15:20] You know, we've, we've, it's worked for us well in the past

[3:15:23] and so I I'm supportive of this.

[3:15:27] Can I just ask why, why is wealth the lead?

[3:15:30] So interestingly enough, they were the lead 20 years ago.

[3:15:32] Whether that's a good answer or not, they have chosen

[3:15:36] to sort of take on I guess the administrative burden

[3:15:38] of collecting the information.

[3:15:41] It is a little bit like herding cats trying

[3:15:43] to get over 30 municipalities with different forms

[3:15:45] of government in order to all commit.

[3:15:48] And they also had worked with KP Law in the past,

[3:15:51] as I indicated they were the firm

[3:15:52] that represented this group 20 years ago

[3:15:54] and have some of the institutional records

[3:15:56] that we thought would be useful as part of negotiations.

[3:15:59] Okay, Madam Chair then I would move

[3:16:01] that the select board approve

[3:16:02] and execute the interim municipal agreement between the town

[3:16:06] of WaPo and various municipalities

[3:16:08] regarding solid waste contract negotiations.

[3:16:11] Subject to the additional stipulation

[3:16:13] provided by WaPo that went total fees, cost

[3:16:16] and expenses bill to all parties under section two

[3:16:18] of the agreement exceed $75,000.

[3:16:21] The wall poll representative shall notify all other parties,

[3:16:24] representatives by email at the email addresses set forth in

[3:16:28] this agreement, and the parties shall properly confer

[3:16:31] through their representatives by teleconference

[3:16:33] regarding anticipated future cost

[3:16:36] and continuation of the agreement.

[3:16:38] Second.

[3:16:40] All righty then. So Kathy?

[3:16:44] Yes, Phil? Yes. Josh? Yes. Kevin. Aye.

[3:16:49] And I vote Yes. Thank you very much. Appreciate this.

[3:16:55] Okay, next up

[3:17:00] we have Miles Tucker, our support services manager to talk

[3:17:03] to us about digital legal notices, warrant,

[3:17:06] article proposal.

[3:17:09] Thank you Madam Chair. Good evening.

[3:17:10] Members of the board, I will try

[3:17:12] and keep this brief given the hour.

[3:17:15] So Last year goals, this board set as one

[3:17:20] of its initiatives to study a home rule petition

[3:17:22] to permit the town to place legal notices

[3:17:26] on a digital format as opposed

[3:17:27] to having them printed in a newspaper.

[3:17:30] This is a relatively recent option

[3:17:32] provided to communities by the Commonwealth

[3:17:33] and has been successfully completed by other communities,

[3:17:36] Arlington and Lincoln or some of our peers who have passed

[3:17:40] a similar home rule petition.

[3:17:44] This is beneficial to the town in

[3:17:46] that there is a consistently shrinking

[3:17:49] printed newspaper market, especially with the recent

[3:17:52] limited distribution of the last print newspaper name,

[3:17:56] the Hometown Weekly, which no longer

[3:17:58] does home deliveries anymore.

[3:17:59] They deliver to 70 sites in town,

[3:18:01] but it's, it's further limited.

[3:18:04] So in your packet is a draft warrant article containing the

[3:18:07] text of the proposed home rule petition.

[3:18:09] It is nearly identical to two peer communities, Westford

[3:18:13] and Wellesley that have recently passed

[3:18:16] said home rule petition.

[3:18:18] Both of those are still with our friends at the general

[3:18:20] court, but the way that the law was updated,

[3:18:25] it's pretty clear what this language needs to be.

[3:18:29] It would permit the town as well as school department

[3:18:32] to post in five specific locations.

[3:18:36] Those could be printed newspapers,

[3:18:39] a printed newspapers website, a local digital news site,

[3:18:43] a statewide legal notice repository, or a town repository.

[3:18:47] It's worth noting that the town already has a part

[3:18:49] of our website that has public hearings

[3:18:52] and legal notices in one central location.

[3:18:54] So that already exists. Does not change the actual noticing

[3:18:58] requirement time that a legal notice would need

[3:19:01] to be placed in advance or anything.

[3:19:03] Those time limits are still in place.

[3:19:06] Notably, our deputy town manager, director

[3:19:08] of finance highlighted to us

[3:19:10] that tax takings will still need

[3:19:12] to be printed in the newspaper.

[3:19:13] So this applies to most, but not all legal notices.

[3:19:18] Tax takings are a specific thing that need

[3:19:20] to be still printed, representing a

[3:19:25] very, very, very, very, very small percent

[3:19:28] of our overall legal notices.

[3:19:31] A proposed concept for the operating of this

[3:19:34] home rule petition, if it were to be passed

[3:19:36] and passed by the legislature,

[3:19:37] would be using the town's webpage

[3:19:40] that exists right now as the default.

[3:19:42] However, committees

[3:19:44] or the bodies that would be using these that are required

[3:19:49] to post these legal notices would solve the option

[3:19:51] to post any of the five available other sorts of media

[3:19:56] in the event that wider distribution would be

[3:19:59] wanted by that body.

[3:20:02] And with that, the draft article, again,

[3:20:05] is both included in this packet as well as in the draft

[3:20:07] of the special town meeting warrant

[3:20:09] that you will address later in this meeting

[3:20:10] because there's still later in this meeting.

[3:20:14] And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions.

[3:20:16] Miles, what's what happens for the, for the tax takings,

[3:20:21] I mean for those that are required to be in a newspaper,

[3:20:25] what, what happens if there's no newspaper?

[3:20:28] That's a great question. Well, I will say as well,

[3:20:32] it's a newspaper that is distributed here.

[3:20:36] Past practice has been to go with the local newspapers.

[3:20:40] There are also the Boston Globe and Boston Herald.

[3:20:42] Those are distributed here.

[3:20:44] Frankly speaking, the the price is significantly higher than

[3:20:49] the local distribution papers.

[3:20:51] So we've, we've gone to the globe in examples where to,

[3:20:56] to the point of the time notices not being changed in the

[3:20:59] past where, you know,

[3:21:02] I'll admit when I was a new staff member here,

[3:21:04] I missed a posting deadline.

[3:21:05] I believe it was for a cable hearing.

[3:21:07] So we had to go out to the globe

[3:21:09] because we needed it done soon and it was able to be done.

[3:21:14] So there, there are still papers of record

[3:21:16] that are distributed with enough distribution in Needham.

[3:21:18] Okay. So it it doesn't need to be a local paper?

[3:21:21] No, it needs to have, I forget the specific term,

[3:21:25] but it's, it's effectively why Definit

[3:21:26] Circulation of some, yeah.

[3:21:28] Okay. All right.

[3:21:30] Well this is, this is really very comprehensive.

[3:21:33] I am, I'm shocked to see the cost

[3:21:38] spent on printing legal notices in fiscal year 2026 was 30

[3:21:42] over $34,000.

[3:21:44] So it seems to me like not only is this actually

[3:21:49] generally speaking, probably more convenient for folks,

[3:21:53] but also considerably less

[3:21:54] expensive I would hope for the town.

[3:21:56] Do we know what the comparable cost of digital, I mean

[3:22:01] presumably nothing

[3:22:02] but staff time, which is not insignificant

[3:22:05] for the town website, but do other

[3:22:09] local outlets charge for digital notices?

[3:22:13] That's a great question. I don't know at this time.

[3:22:17] For example, we have a few digital only

[3:22:20] publications here in Needham.

[3:22:21] The town is not permitted to notice with them, so Okay.

[3:22:25] That there's not exactly a market. Yeah.

[3:22:28] However, to your point and,

[3:22:30] and to highlight back on what the director of community

[3:22:33] communication and community engagement mentioned earlier,

[3:22:36] we do not want people to not know what's going on.

[3:22:40] This does not restrict the town

[3:22:42] or the schools from posting only to our website.

[3:22:45] The other media are still permitted

[3:22:47] and it actually increases the scope

[3:22:50] by which the town is permitted to communicate,

[3:22:53] which would be beneficial, I would believe.

[3:22:56] Great. Anyone else? No,

[3:23:00] I think this has been official for the town.

[3:23:03] I mean it's, I mean coming,

[3:23:05] it's bringing the town into the times.

[3:23:08] Most people don't subscribe to a newspaper, let alone,

[3:23:11] you know, get a free one anymore.

[3:23:14] I think because Amy was just here talking about,

[3:23:17] you know, how people get their news.

[3:23:19] I do think it's really important to have

[3:23:20] that central repository to at least have all

[3:23:23] of the postings on the town website.

[3:23:25] And then certainly we can add other postings

[3:23:28] in other locations as well.

[3:23:29] Could I suggest like one small change, like to that effect?

[3:23:33] So this would allow posting in any of these five could,

[3:23:37] could we say it's satisfied by posting it

[3:23:39] to the town website plus any of these other locations?

[3:23:43] Because that would just ensure that it's always, always has

[3:23:47] to be posted to the town website so

[3:23:48] that it's in one central location.

[3:23:51] Always.

[3:23:52] That's a good question. I'd have to confer with council.

[3:23:54] Yeah. And, and report back.

[3:23:57] And I just wanna say I appreciate town

[3:23:58] council for drafting this.

[3:23:59] Yeah, yeah. But I think, correct me if I'm wrong,

[3:24:03] but you did say that we are currently keeping all of

[3:24:06] This is something we already do.

[3:24:07] That's correct. It's current practice.

[3:24:08] We already have all the ads, procurement, public meetings,

[3:24:13] they're already posted on the website

[3:24:14] in a central repository.

[3:24:16] Okay. So it's something we're already doing.

[3:24:18] I, I'm just thinking ahead for the future

[3:24:20] because practices can change over time.

[3:24:26] All right. Anyone else? Yeah,

[3:24:31] Kevin, I used to work for a publisher

[3:24:32] who said the legal notices for license to print money.

[3:24:37] And I think though times have changed

[3:24:39] and the reality of it is that websites replace newspapers

[3:24:44] and we have to be and go where people are reading.

[3:24:47] So we should, I'm all for this.

[3:24:49] This is, I mean it's very sad to see the newspapers go.

[3:24:52] Yeah. But the reality is we could

[3:24:56] realize some savings

[3:24:57] but also reach the people we need to reach better.

[3:25:01] Wow,

[3:25:03] That's good.

[3:25:04] Great. Thank you. Kathy has her hand up.

[3:25:07] Oh, Kathy, go ahead.

[3:25:09] Yeah, I think that, you know, it makes sense for us

[3:25:12] to continue the practice of, you know,

[3:25:15] always putting something on our website as, as a way

[3:25:18] to have a record and to have it there.

[3:25:20] I think in terms of the way we draft the law, it,

[3:25:24] it does make sense to model it off of

[3:25:26] what has already worked from these other towns.

[3:25:28] I mean we're talking about a home rule petition.

[3:25:30] These things are a giant pain

[3:25:33] and I would just go with what works.

[3:25:36] Yeah, I suppose we can always add in practice a,

[3:25:41] a secondary if we choose to do that.

[3:25:43] But I, I wonder about requiring it as a point of law

[3:25:48] that, you know, that seems like they could

[3:25:50] be encumbering ourselves.

[3:25:53] Who knows what is gonna happen in the future.

[3:25:57] Have, have these, I think the ones these,

[3:25:59] this is modeled after, haven't been passed. Right?

[3:26:02] Have they, the two specific ones, Westford

[3:26:04] and Wellesley have not, they're still in the general court,

[3:26:06] however extraordinarily comparable

[3:26:10] ones in Lexington and Sudbury for example.

[3:26:12] Have.

[3:26:15] Okay. Now if you could, if you could get

[3:26:16] that answer from time counsel, I think that

[3:26:17] Would be helpful.

[3:26:18] I'd be more than happy to. Thank

[3:26:19] You.

[3:26:20] Thanks Miles. You're welcome.

[3:26:24] Okay, so next up we're gonna look at

[3:26:29] the town manager and first on that is referring,

[3:26:33] accepting and referring the zoning.

[3:26:35] Great. The planning board has been having their

[3:26:39] deliberations for articles

[3:26:40] for the October special town meeting.

[3:26:42] And so what's before you tonight is they have asked for you

[3:26:46] to accept and refer back to them

[3:26:48] two articles under the umbrella of the large house review,

[3:26:51] one on half story attic requirements

[3:26:54] and the other on height requirements.

[3:26:57] And this is a procedural vote that you have

[3:26:59] to take under state law.

[3:27:03] Okay. Any thoughts from my colleagues?

[3:27:08] I, all right then

[3:27:11] I would move that the board would accept all

[3:27:13] the proposed zoning articles.

[3:27:14] Article one, amen's zoning, bylaw half story in parent

[3:27:18] at requirements in the single residence B District article

[3:27:22] two, Amen's zoning bylaw height requirements in the single

[3:27:25] residence B District for referral to the planning board

[3:27:28] for its review, hearing and report.

[3:27:32] Second. All right.

[3:27:36] And we'll take a vote. Kathy?

[3:27:41] Yes. Bill? Yes. Josh? Yes Kevin.

[3:27:45] Aye I vote Yes. Thank you.

[3:27:51] Next,

[3:27:53] Next up is asking the board to call

[3:27:55] for an open the special town meeting warrant,

[3:27:58] which will be held on Monday October 19th, 2026.

[3:28:03] We, you are being asked to open the warrant tonight.

[3:28:06] Just looking ahead, you would close the warrant at your next

[3:28:09] meeting September 8th.

[3:28:11] So at that point we'd hopefully have

[3:28:12] no additions after that point.

[3:28:15] But there is, you have a meeting September 22nd,

[3:28:19] which is your final meeting before it goes to print.

[3:28:21] So we could still make changes, withdrawals

[3:28:24] or changes to the article, language, et cetera.

[3:28:28] I do wanna just walk through the draft warrant.

[3:28:31] This is very much first draft, a lot of placeholders,

[3:28:34] but just to give the board and the public a sense

[3:28:38] and just I'll walk through the articles

[3:28:42] and I would love if the board, if there's any

[3:28:44] that you particularly would like a presentation on.

[3:28:47] Just note that and I can start getting those scheduled

[3:28:49] for your next couple of meetings.

[3:28:51] And this is the moment, lemme just pause

[3:28:52] and say it's August, it's summer, and yet here we are

[3:28:56] and we're like headlong into town meeting.

[3:28:58] So this is when things start like ramping up at a speed

[3:29:02] that no one ever anticipates

[3:29:03] until we're in the middle of it.

[3:29:05] So walking through the draft warrant,

[3:29:09] the first article is appropriate

[3:29:11] for the Pollard Middle School.

[3:29:13] And this language has been drafted by town council.

[3:29:16] We will ensure that MSBA has had a chance to review it

[3:29:20] and bond council as well

[3:29:22] before we insert the language into the

[3:29:24] warrant. Basically there will be

[3:29:27] Lots of presentations to come this,

[3:29:29] Yes, many presentations to come.

[3:29:34] The next handful are placeholders should we need them.

[3:29:38] So unpaid bills

[3:29:40] and line item transfers if needed within

[3:29:43] our FY 2027 operating budget.

[3:29:45] And our two enterprise fund budgets for sewer and water.

[3:29:50] So we're gathering if any of those will be needed.

[3:29:55] We have our public education and government programming peg.

[3:29:58] This is pass through funds from cable providers

[3:30:03] to the the Needham channel.

[3:30:05] And so we have this on every warrant to,

[3:30:10] I have a timely expediting pass through.

[3:30:14] It is 9 42.

[3:30:17] The next two articles are the zoning ones

[3:30:19] that you just took the procedural vote on.

[3:30:23] And I guess I pause

[3:30:24] and see if the board would like a presentation on those.

[3:30:28] Yes, absolutely. Yes. Great.

[3:30:31] I will work with the planning board planning director

[3:30:33] to schedule those under

[3:30:37] general articles.

[3:30:39] We're on page six of the draft warrant.

[3:30:41] There's the home rule petition related to the Article 97

[3:30:47] for Warner Field as part of the Pollard project

[3:30:50] that we've discussed at your last few meetings.

[3:30:53] So this is the continuation of the local approvals

[3:30:56] that we would be required to comply with.

[3:30:58] Article 97.

[3:31:00] Madam Chair, the last time we had an Article 97

[3:31:04] article in the warrant, it appeared right

[3:31:07] after the, the article that we were voting on.

[3:31:10] Oh, maybe that might help with the flow if we made

[3:31:14] that article two right after Pollard.

[3:31:17] Let me confer with town counsel on that. Yep.

[3:31:26] Okay. You had a presentation at your last meeting

[3:31:30] regarding the proposed single parcel historic district

[3:31:33] for the White House on South Street.

[3:31:34] So there's a placeholder there.

[3:31:38] One question for the board, the

[3:31:43] proposal for a general bylaw amendment

[3:31:46] around tree protection and preservation.

[3:31:48] I wanted to gauge deferral to May versus

[3:31:53] advancing to the October special time meeting.

[3:31:59] As much as I would like to see this go to October, I,

[3:32:02] I'm a little concerned about the timeline given

[3:32:05] the number of big events.

[3:32:07] I mean not only Pollard, I'm I, all of the stuff that goes

[3:32:09] with that, but also the election.

[3:32:14] We still haven't had,

[3:32:15] we haven't had a public hearing on the part

[3:32:17] of the select board for this bylaw.

[3:32:21] And so it just seems like a lot to squeeze in.

[3:32:23] But if, I mean, if it's feasible, sure

[3:32:28] that would, that would mean I would like to see that.

[3:32:31] But if it's, but I think we have to evaluate whether

[3:32:34] or not it's really feasible in light of all of the,

[3:32:39] the big fixed items on the,

[3:32:45] on the docket for the fall.

[3:32:49] I would lean towards maybe

[3:32:50] 'cause I just don't see how it can be feasible

[3:32:52] to get everything done that we need to get done.

[3:32:54] Yeah, I I mean I'm worried

[3:32:56] About it.

[3:32:57] I'm not, I'm the same. Not

[3:32:57] that I don't want it to be done, but

[3:32:58] As we, as we game out like all of the time that is needed

[3:33:02] for each one of these things, issues, you know,

[3:33:05] I I just worry that this one's

[3:33:06] gonna get knocked off the plate.

[3:33:08] So as we game it out, I, I mean I'd like

[3:33:11] to keep the possibility open I guess,

[3:33:13] until our next meeting.

[3:33:16] But I, I acknowledge that, I think

[3:33:19] that the timeline is really tight.

[3:33:24] I'm just thinking of scheduling wise,

[3:33:28] your next meeting, September 8th is

[3:33:30] immediately after Labor Day.

[3:33:31] So if you wanted to hold the public hearing, I'd recommend

[3:33:34] to do that your September 22nd meeting, you would have,

[3:33:43] if you had the hearing that night,

[3:33:45] that would be your last chance to take it off the

[3:33:48] warrant right then.

[3:33:49] So it's tight I guess.

[3:33:51] And I think it just, you'd have more time

[3:33:54] to process feedback if you received any, if you defer to me.

[3:33:59] Sure. Okay.

[3:34:03] I don't, we don't have

[3:34:04] to make this decision at this moment though.

[3:34:06] I, I can keep the placeholder on Yeah.

[3:34:08] Until your next meeting. Let's

[3:34:09] Do that.

[3:34:10] Okay. And maybe we can, you know,

[3:34:15] we're gonna have our goals meeting next week so we'll see

[3:34:18] how many things are on our plate for the fall

[3:34:21] and once we understand that kind of,

[3:34:24] we can game it out, see if there's enough time.

[3:34:28] But that seems pretty tight. I'd hate to

[3:34:32] To the hearing.

[3:34:33] It feels like you're better fit, but if you want hear it.

[3:34:36] Yeah.

[3:34:40] The next article on the top page seven is the Home Rule

[3:34:44] that Miles just presented to the board

[3:34:46] and it sounds like support to move forward with that.

[3:34:49] So we'll keep that on.

[3:34:51] Deputy time manager director finance is working on potential

[3:34:55] recommendations for real estate tax exemptions.

[3:34:58] So adjustments to our existing programs

[3:35:01] to expand eligibility.

[3:35:04] Next steps on that would be he'll, he will be presenting

[3:35:08] to the board of assessors

[3:35:09] and getting their feedback on that.

[3:35:11] So my plan for the select board is to wait

[3:35:14] for those conversations so then it can be presented

[3:35:16] to you in full with that feedback.

[3:35:19] There's also an abatement related to affordable housing.

[3:35:24] So like if residents rent a unit

[3:35:29] to someone who is, you know, below a certain income level

[3:35:33] that a homeowner is eligible for residential abatement,

[3:35:36] I maybe we can discuss it during the, the board hearing.

[3:35:40] I I, if we wanted to opt in, it would have

[3:35:42] to be on town meeting timing would have to approve it.

[3:35:46] Okay. I'll ask do you To follow up. Okay.

[3:35:52] Okay. And there are two

[3:35:57] articles related to changes to revolving funds.

[3:35:59] I think we discussed briefly at your last meeting.

[3:36:02] One to just move the park

[3:36:04] and rec revolving fund to a more modern, modern structure

[3:36:08] and to replace our current revolving fund

[3:36:12] for traveling meals to replace it

[3:36:15] with a community nutrition revolving fund

[3:36:17] that would just allow it for a broader set of purposes

[3:36:20] around food, food insecurity and community nutrition

[3:36:24] For the park and record revolving fund, does

[3:36:26] that eliminate the existing revolving fund?

[3:36:31] Yes, that's the intent. That's yes.

[3:36:33] And the fund For the, for the community nutrition,

[3:36:39] are we doing this in anticipation of Beth Israel not

[3:36:44] participating in that program or is this

[3:36:45] an expansion of the program?

[3:36:48] So it is not driven by our current arrangement

[3:36:52] with BID Needham.

[3:36:54] The Public Health Division

[3:36:56] and Aging Services has broadly been working on thinking

[3:37:00] about expanded community nutrition programs.

[3:37:03] A part of that would be if we ever needed

[3:37:05] to take on the services that BID Needham provides for us,

[3:37:08] how could we or would we,

[3:37:10] but it's, the motivation

[3:37:12] for this is I think more, more broad.

[3:37:14] We'll have the updated kitchen at the center at the heights

[3:37:17] after construction's completed this year

[3:37:21] and we'll be able to do a lot more offerings in-house.

[3:37:25] So this revolving fund is a way to

[3:37:29] use the existing revolving fund mechanism more broadly.

[3:37:32] I think it'd be great to have a presentation on this

[3:37:34] and learn more about the program.

[3:37:36] Yep. Great.

[3:37:37] I'm actually on the board of the traveling meals

[3:37:39] and we get a lot of requests

[3:37:40] besides just getting the meals delivered

[3:37:43] for things like can, can we bring someone to Cath

[3:37:46] and provide them with breakfast to do things like that.

[3:37:48] So I think it is basically the expansion of,

[3:37:51] of, of the program.

[3:37:52] So when we get requests, you know,

[3:37:55] we will be able to do more things.

[3:38:00] Great. And the last two

[3:38:05] placeholders are takings related to

[3:38:10] infrastructure projects that you've heard from DPW about.

[3:38:15] The first is we have an intersection improvement

[3:38:18] project at Great Plain and Central.

[3:38:20] A voluntary taking would be

[3:38:22] required at the Presbyterian church.

[3:38:25] DPW is in touch with the church

[3:38:27] and they have expressed their willingness to donate the land

[3:38:31] for the improvements that are needed.

[3:38:33] But this would require town meeting action.

[3:38:35] And from the presentation you just heard that

[3:38:40] an easement needed at Dedham Ave and South Street

[3:38:46] Can we, is the design for great plan

[3:38:49] and central at a stage where it's ready for a presentation?

[3:38:52] Yeah, I can follow up with DPW director on that. Okay.

[3:39:02] And I do wanna note that I had mentioned this at your

[3:39:05] previous meeting, but one of the articles

[3:39:07] that you do not see on here is design funds requested

[3:39:10] for Great Plain Avenue improvements that you voted earlier.

[3:39:15] My recommendation is to have that be for the May 27th

[3:39:20] town meeting, given the level of engagement, interest number

[3:39:25] of stakeholders in that project.

[3:39:26] If we defer the article to May,

[3:39:29] that would allow our staff team to be able

[3:39:32] to map out the full design process, bring the process

[3:39:35] to the board to make sure that we are in agreement,

[3:39:38] have the same expectations about how

[3:39:40] that design process would run, what community engagement

[3:39:43] or stakeholder engagement would look like, what staff

[3:39:46] and our technical expertise

[3:39:47] and consultants would be working on.

[3:39:50] And then we'd be able to have that presented

[3:39:53] to the board in advance of Maytown meeting

[3:39:55] when the design funds are requested, we'd be able

[3:39:58] to answer a lot of questions that I anticipate we,

[3:40:00] we would get from town meeting members.

[3:40:03] Yep. Sounds reasonable.

[3:40:09] Madam Chair, I move the board vote to call for

[3:40:11] and open the warrant

[3:40:13] for the October 19th, 2026 special town meeting.

[3:40:16] Second.

[3:40:18] Okay. Kathy? Yes. Bill?

[3:40:23] Yes. Josh? Yes. Kevin. Aye. Can I vote? Yes.

[3:40:29] Great. Next

[3:40:35] The Commissioner of trust funds will have a vacancy

[3:40:38] at the end of August and I will be brief

[3:40:41] and I think maybe turn it over to the vice chair just

[3:40:44] to know procedurally the town clerk

[3:40:48] provided the select board

[3:40:49] with a letter outlining the available options

[3:40:52] to the board relative to filling that position by a joint

[3:40:57] appointment process with the commissioner of trust funds

[3:40:59] or via special election.

[3:41:01] The commission did send a letter

[3:41:03] to the board expressing their interest in participating in a

[3:41:05] joint appointment process.

[3:41:07] And I will turn it over

[3:41:09] 'cause I think those conversations are underway.

[3:41:11] Thank you. So I, we, the chair

[3:41:15] of the Commissioner of Trust Hunts

[3:41:17] and I have a meeting scheduled tomorrow night

[3:41:20] in anticipation that the board wants

[3:41:22] to move ahead with appointing.

[3:41:24] If not, we can cancel that meeting.

[3:41:26] But the, the chair has indicated that she wishes to fill it

[3:41:31] as quickly as possible.

[3:41:33] I think we could probably accommodate that.

[3:41:35] I would propose a, a similar process as the Park

[3:41:40] and Rec commission where we notice it

[3:41:42] for two consecutive weeks

[3:41:44] and then I think that would allow us time to

[3:41:49] hold an appointment with a, with a joint appointment

[3:41:53] with both boards during our regular September 22nd

[3:41:56] meeting if that works.

[3:41:59] Sounds fine. Okay.

[3:42:03] Okay, great. Okay,

[3:42:09] Lastly town manager report.

[3:42:11] I just wanna know, we have had two notable retirements

[3:42:15] of DPW foreman this summer.

[3:42:17] So I just wanna share a little bit about them particularly

[3:42:19] because they may be a little bit more

[3:42:21] behind the scenes for some folks.

[3:42:23] They're well known in our eyes.

[3:42:25] But Doug Manje retired on June 30th.

[3:42:29] He's a well recognized member

[3:42:31] of our parks and forestry division.

[3:42:33] He was instrumental in kind of all of the operations of

[3:42:36] that division and ensuring

[3:42:37] that our fields were are safe and beautiful.

[3:42:40] And I'd say particularly in, in talking with the team,

[3:42:44] our most visible events where people really get to access

[3:42:47] and work be in our

[3:42:51] park spaces July 3rd and fourth events

[3:42:54] and the Memorial Day tournament being those two big ones,

[3:42:58] he was instrumental and had a lot of knowledge.

[3:43:02] And I will also note he was our irrigation expert

[3:43:06] and kept the town systems going over the years.

[3:43:09] So I think, you know, we're, we have a lot of systems

[3:43:11] that are different and hand run

[3:43:13] and require the expertise of someone like Doug.

[3:43:18] Jerry Sharp retired on August 7th

[3:43:20] and he is the lead

[3:43:22] of the water sewer drains construction crew.

[3:43:25] They are responsible for responding in all emergencies to

[3:43:30] the distribution systems that we have.

[3:43:32] And this is core life health safety work.

[3:43:35] They Jerry also, in addition to responding to emergencies

[3:43:40] because we have the talent in house, he was able

[3:43:42] with his crew to do a lot of proactive projects

[3:43:45] that are small, smaller in nature.

[3:43:47] So a smaller dia, dia diameter main replacement

[3:43:51] and other utility projects that we didn't have to go

[3:43:55] contract out because we had the

[3:43:56] expertise and the talent in-house.

[3:43:58] So over the years Jerry has trained dozens

[3:44:01] of staff members on how to manage our distribution systems

[3:44:05] and respond to emergencies.

[3:44:06] And this is to the benefit

[3:44:07] of every single person in Needham

[3:44:10] businesses residents alike.

[3:44:11] So they both will be missed

[3:44:13] and we thank them very much for their service. So

[3:44:16] Do we send them a appreciation letter

[3:44:18] like we do for committee members?

[3:44:20] I don't know why we wouldn't for them.

[3:44:22] You know, we haven't had a formal

[3:44:24] System.

[3:44:25] We talked, we talk about that a lot

[3:44:26] with I think that's a great idea.

[3:44:27] Can we formalize? Yeah. Yeah.

[3:44:30] I mean I know both of them

[3:44:31] and they both were unbelievable.

[3:44:32] Yeah. You know, so I think they would

[3:44:35] appreciate something like that too.

[3:44:36] Yep. I mean personally,

[3:44:38] but I think it would be better coming from,

[3:44:41] Yeah. Excellent.

[3:44:43] Congratulations. Both. That's it.

[3:44:48] Okay. So thank you.

[3:44:52] And the next thing is committee reports expect this to be

[3:44:57] reasonably quick 'cause it's a summer.

[3:44:59] We'll start with Kathy. No reports.

[3:45:05] Excellent. Thank you Bill.

[3:45:07] I was lucky enough to go to the Needham night out

[3:45:09] that the Needham Police sponsored last week.

[3:45:11] And it, it was a great event.

[3:45:13] It was great to see so many families there,

[3:45:14] but one of the best things was see how many

[3:45:16] families had repeated.

[3:45:19] They came here after year

[3:45:20] and there was a picture on social media

[3:45:22] of Eddie Tis on his police, the motorcycle.

[3:45:25] And they had brought a picture of when they came nine years

[3:45:27] ago with their child and they came back with that child

[3:45:30] and put 'em on the motorcycle.

[3:45:31] We took it. So it was great to we to see them back there.

[3:45:34] And then Kevin and I attended the Purple Heart

[3:45:38] event the last Friday evening.

[3:45:40] Kevin did a great job

[3:45:41] and I wish we could get more publicity about it,

[3:45:43] get more people there, but we'll that's for another day.

[3:45:47] Good. Great. Thank you. Josh.

[3:45:50] We talked about Commissioner of Trust funds.

[3:45:51] Just wanted to give an update on Park and Rec.

[3:45:54] The interviews will be conducted

[3:45:55] during their regular meeting on August 24th.

[3:46:00] I don't believe that that at 7:00 PM I don't believe

[3:46:02] the location has been announced.

[3:46:05] Park Rosemary Recreational complex multi-purpose room.

[3:46:08] Thank you. Rosemary Recreational. Okay, perfect.

[3:46:11] So ever welcome to,

[3:46:13] to watch including members of Psych board.

[3:46:14] Yeah. And can you remind us how many candidates?

[3:46:17] I believe eight. That's great. Great. Kevin?

[3:46:21] Same. I went to the National Night out on the

[3:46:24] fourth and it was, it was great.

[3:46:26] It was, it was good to see me police

[3:46:29] and do you know, community policing and outreach

[3:46:32] and then the purple head ceremony too. It

[3:46:34] Was great.

[3:46:35] It was actually very nice.

[3:46:37] Excellent. And I'll just say one thing today was the,

[3:46:41] the Red Cross blood drive hosted by the town,

[3:46:45] which is usually held cath caths under construction.

[3:46:47] So it was up in beautiful powers hall

[3:46:50] and really just a spectacular room to do anything in,

[3:46:53] including give blood.

[3:46:55] And so if you too wanna give blood, you can do

[3:46:58] so on November 12th, which is their next, their next

[3:47:03] date in Power Hall for that blood drive. All right.

[3:47:07] Move we adjourn. Second.

[3:47:10] Excellent. Kathy? Yes. Bill? Yes.

[3:47:16] Josh? Yes. Kevin, don't start.

[3:47:18] Yes. And the chair votes. Yes. Thank you.

[3:47:21] And goodnight.

Needham Select Board, 8/11/26

Agenda

Transcript