[0:02] This is the January 27th meeting of the

[0:04] Newcastle Planning and Zoning

[0:06] Commission. First item of business will

[0:07] be roll call

[0:09] >> present.

[0:10] >> Carl Evans

[0:10] >> here.

[0:11] >> Wright

[0:12] >> here.

[0:13] >> Is absent. Niquity

[0:14] >> here.

[0:18] » Okay, we do have a quorum. We will

[0:20] proceed with business.

[0:23] Uh item two is approval of the agenda as

[0:25] presented.

[0:28] Don't have any changes.

[0:31] >> Make a motion we approve the agenda as

[0:33] presented. There have been no request

[0:34] for continuences.

[0:36] >> Second.

[0:36] >> I have a motion and a second. All in

[0:38] favor signify when I up raise hand. Be

[0:40] unanimously approved.

[0:43] Approval of the minutes from May 18th

[0:47] and June 29th. We didn't have a meeting

[0:50] to review them.

[0:53] And

[0:55] >> Carl, that's the one I got paid for

[0:57] without coming.

[0:58] >> Is that it? That was awesome, sir.

[1:00] >> It's the June 29th.

[1:02] >> Well, now we have a full disclosure,

[1:03] too. [laughter]

[1:06] >> City transparency.

[1:11] » I still waiting on the first check. Jet,

[1:14] >> make a sec a second that motion.

[1:16] >> Okay. Motion and a second to approve the

[1:18] minutes as presented. All in favor

[1:20] signify with rais hand. be unanimously

[1:22] approved.

[1:24] Item four is to report on city council's

[1:26] decisions for planning commission

[1:28] recommendations of last meeting since we

[1:31] didn't have one. I'll bet they didn't

[1:33] approve anything. Actually, I went and

[1:35] they didn't.

[1:38] Sorry, I took that away from you.

[1:40] >> No, that's No, you didn't. [laughter]

[1:42] >> Give those reports.

[1:43] >> No, and you were right. We did not have

[1:45] anything at the June meeting. Um, we

[1:48] have the uh the May

[1:53] on

[1:55] >> so far back we don't really care.

[2:01] » Actually, we probably should approve the

[2:02] minutes from the May 18th meeting.

[2:05] Anybody have any corrections to them?

[2:09] Make a motion we approve the minutes of

[2:11] May 18th, 2026 meeting.

[2:15] >> Second.

[2:16] >> Motion second. All in favor? Unanimously

[2:19] approved.

[2:25] Item number five is continuence

[2:26] requests. There were none.

[2:29] Item six is citizen comments. This is

[2:31] opportunity for citizens to be heard on

[2:33] matters that are not on our agenda

[2:35] tonight. Anybody wishes to be heard?

[2:39] Seeing none, we'll continue.

[2:42] Item seven is lotslit deed approvals.

[2:53] So, is that HID in the property up there

[2:55] on north side 32?

[2:56] >> Yeah, that's that's where it is. I'm

[2:58] just was about to ask, do we know

[3:01] divided on that?

[3:02] >> That's what exactly what was divided on

[3:04] that piece that was divided. You're

[3:07] talking about which one?

[3:08] >> Yeah,

[3:09] >> Julia did the the lot split warranty

[3:11] deed approval. It was one that had they

[3:13] had already come in there.

[3:17] Oh

[3:18] >> yeah,

[3:19] >> I'm sorry. Say that again.

[3:23] >> It was

[3:24] >> They were already divided into some lots

[3:26] up there.

[3:27] >> Yes.

[3:27] >> And did he divide one of the existing

[3:30] lots or

[3:32] >> Well, actually

[3:34] there was a smaller lot within a large

[3:36] lot. So it was a little confusing at the

[3:40] beginning, but

[3:42] the son

[3:45] and he actually did it a large

[3:51] in it

[3:54] to get rid of those two lines within the

[3:58] large.

[4:00] >> Okay. So, the same property owner owns

[4:02] both the the inside square and the

[4:04] outside square.

[4:05] >> Okay. Got it.

[4:07] >> Cool. Thank you.

[4:11] Item eight is a public hearing to

[4:13] consider an application for resoning

[4:14] from agriculture to E2 urban estate

[4:17] residential.

[4:18] Le Lisa Mike Michelle

[4:22] Judy and Terresa Sue Cruz and John R.

[4:26] crews located in a track of land line in

[4:29] the west half of the west half of the

[4:31] northeast quarter of the northeast

[4:33] quarter of section 24 township 9 north

[4:36] range 4 west of the Indian meridian Mlan

[4:38] County Oklahoma property address is 1900

[4:42] east Fox Lane the castle o Oklahoma this

[4:46] is R 2026-009

[4:51] item eight packet

[5:04] Good evening. Oh

[5:08] >> Julia Yun with Newcastle planning. Uh

[5:11] before I read my notes, actually the

[5:15] maps included in your uh report, it's

[5:19] actually better for you to follow. This

[5:22] is so small

[5:24] and uh the maps printed in the packet is

[5:28] a little bit larger I think that was

[5:32] included in my report.

[5:35] So

[5:37] uh this is a request to reszone

[5:40] approximately 1.83 83 acres of a 10 acre

[5:44] tract uh from a general agricultural

[5:48] district to E2 urban estate residential

[5:52] district. The purpose of the request is

[5:56] to allow a future lot split to create

[6:00] one additional single family residential

[6:02] lot.

[6:04] The subject property has existed in its

[6:08] current configuration since 2020.

[6:12] The applicant purchased the property in

[6:14] 23 and constructed a single family

[6:18] residence on the souththeastern portion

[6:22] of the tract in 24.

[6:25] The property is served by recorded

[6:28] private access easements established in

[6:31] 20 and 2023.

[6:34] The proposed reasonzoning applies only

[6:37] to the northern 1.83

[6:40] acres of the property. So when you look

[6:43] at the map, um there's a s looking

[6:48] dividing line there that is following

[6:50] the natural uh creek. um uh to separate

[6:56] the northern 1.83 acres and the southern

[7:00] part the remaining is 8.17 acres.

[7:06] Uh a significant portion of the proposed

[7:09] tract is located within the 100 flood

[7:13] plane. Any future development within the

[7:16] flood plane would require a flood plane

[7:19] permit and compliance wi with all

[7:23] applicable flood plane regulations.

[7:25] [clears throat]

[7:26] Approximately. 22 acres in the

[7:29] norththeastern

[7:31] portion of the tract is outside of the

[7:35] flood plane and appears to provide

[7:39] sufficient area for a single family home

[7:42] while meeting the required setbacks for

[7:45] the E2 district. So there's another

[7:48] small portion that uh we're not

[7:50] dividing. I'm just pointing it out. That

[7:54] northeast corner of the 10acre lot

[7:56] approximately 22 acres is completely

[8:00] outside of the flood plane. That is what

[8:03] I'm just pointing it out. Um

[8:07] uh there is also an existing 25

[8:10] uh 25 by 30 foot uh metal building on

[8:15] the proposed tract. The structure

[8:18] predates the applicant's ownership and

[8:22] may continue to be used as an accessory

[8:24] building such as for storage or a

[8:28] workshop.

[8:30] cosmetic or aesthetic improvements to

[8:32] the building would not require a flood

[8:35] plane permit. The remaining 8.17 acre

[8:40] tract will retain its general

[8:43] agricultural zoning designation and will

[8:46] continue to have access through the

[8:49] recorded easement from South Portland

[8:53] Avenue. staff does not anticipate any

[8:56] negative impacts on surrounding land

[8:59] uses. The area is characterized by

[9:03] single family residential development

[9:06] and the request is consistent with the

[9:09] future land use maps residential

[9:12] designation.

[9:14] No protests have been filed within the

[9:17] notification area. Based on these

[9:20] findings, staff recommends approval of

[9:23] the resoning request. I would be happy

[9:28] to answer any questions and the

[9:30] applicants are here tonight.

[9:40] There's a significant portion of that

[9:42] property that is outside the flood

[9:43] plane, but it's deeper into the lot.

[9:45] Correct.

[9:46] Is that a correct statement? Northeast

[9:48] corner.

[9:49] >> Well, additional, if you look at the

[9:51] whole lot, I'm I'm trying to look on

[9:54] this map here. Yeah. All that is outside

[9:56] the flood plane.

[9:57] >> Yes, that's correct.

[9:58] >> On the south side of the creek.

[10:00] >> Yeah, I understand.

[10:01] >> Is that what you're asking saying?

[10:03] >> Yeah.

[10:07] » Access will be off of uh Fox.

[10:10] >> Yes.

[10:38] deep.

[10:39] >> Now, is the 1

[10:47] 83 acres

[10:49] part of a 10acre track?

[10:51] >> Yes.

[10:51] >> Or is it only

[10:54] What's north of the creek?

[10:56] >> North of the creek.

[10:59] I don't know what you're asking.

[11:01] >> Oh, the track.

[11:02] >> Sorry. This is the 1.83 acres.

[11:04] >> 1.83.

[11:06] >> Yes.

[11:06] >> It's north of the creek only

[11:08] >> is north of the creek. Okay. I see what

[11:10] we're doing.

[11:11] >> But there's a 10 acre. We're going

[11:13] further south that we're reszoning.

[11:15] >> No, this to the creek.

[11:17] >> Entire acres down to here.

[11:20] >> Okay.

[11:21] >> Yeah. the red box. The area is

[11:23] >> We're not talking about the red box.

[11:24] We're only talking about 1.83 acres,

[11:26] >> right?

[11:31] » Should have been

[11:32] >> okay.

[11:42] » So, is there two creeks that run through

[11:43] there? Is that what that is?

[11:46] Sure. What it looks like?

[11:50] You're talking about this here, this

[11:51] little

[11:52] >> as you cross, see where the orange ties

[11:54] to both ends of that proposed 10 acres.

[11:57] Look at the two ends of the orange. Both

[11:59] of those look like they're in some type

[12:02] of restricted area.

[12:05] >> So, this

[12:06] >> 500 year. The orange is

[12:09] >> orange. Okay. Is that ae between the 500

[12:13] and the and the 100? Is that what that

[12:14] is?

[12:15] >> Yeah, that's the flood the flood way.

[12:17] And then the blue is the flood plane.

[12:23] Okay.

[12:26] » Well,

[12:28] I don't see a real problem

[12:31] having

[12:34] >> long you get a house on that place.

[12:36] That's the only thing, right?

[12:37] >> Be tough. But it's not usable to the

[12:38] south. I mean,

[12:40] >> no at all.

[12:43] >> Unless you want to build a big bridge.

[12:45] >> Yeah.

[13:00] The road just

[13:03] >> crosses across the flood plane area. Is

[13:05] that right?

[13:06] >> No.

[13:09] » Lane. Oh, Fox Lane opens.

[13:12] >> Which road?

[13:13] >> I was mis identifying where this was.

[13:16] Yes, they have this will access through

[13:19] a private easement. Julia put that in

[13:21] the staff report.

[13:23] >> This the remainder of this lot will

[13:25] access through a private easement that's

[13:28] already been established when they

[13:30] developed this this house back here

[13:32] >> because that was the only way to access

[13:34] this lot was through this private

[13:36] easement here.

[13:38] >> And there's several other lots you can

[13:40] see

[13:40] >> that are to east of this.

[13:43] >> Yeah.

[13:44] >> Right. Okay.

[13:44] >> So, since they have

[13:46] That private easement is already in

[13:48] place, right?

[13:48] >> Yes, it's been in place for a long time

[13:52] >> to the previous owners

[13:54] >> before this house at 514 was built.

[13:57] >> Okay. So, it's chang

[14:15] Julia did all of the calculations for

[14:17] the development, right? The setbacks for

[14:19] the front, making sure that they could

[14:21] get a house on the

[14:24] >> field. Yeah. Without Yeah. without uh

[14:26] encroaching into the flood plane. Now,

[14:29] the 500year

[14:31] Keith can chime in on this since he's

[14:33] our flood plane administrator, but

[14:36] nothing that we look at it, but as long

[14:38] as they stay out of that, they wouldn't

[14:40] be required a flood plane permit as long

[14:43] as they stay out of it. And on that 22

[14:46] acres they can fit a house and still

[14:48] mind the setbacks and they have the

[14:50] frontage and access

[15:00] want to make the motion.

[15:08] » There any public comment on this

[15:10] application?

[15:12] See none. We'll proceed.

[15:15] I'll make a motion that we recommend

[15:17] approval

[15:19] this resoning.

[15:22] >> Second.

[15:24] All in favor be unanimously approved.

[15:30] » Thank you. Thank you.

[16:12] Item nine is discussion and possible

[16:14] action on deviation of facade

[16:17] requirements for Windemir PUD

[16:20] number 785 section 7 special provisions

[16:24] seven exterior facade regarding the

[16:26] grove.

[16:42] Good evening.

[16:45] My name is Emma Akenna. For the record,

[16:47] I am um

[16:50] presenting uh a deviation to from

[16:54] exterior facade for growth Newcastle.

[16:58] Let [clears throat] us see.

[17:01] So, the Grove is requesting approval of

[17:03] an exception to the exterior facade

[17:05] requirements established in the PUD

[17:07] ordinance number 785

[17:11] uh section 7 for the track four of the

[17:14] Windmir PD. Track four is that

[17:17] highlighted uh

[17:20] kind of a rectangle.

[17:24] >> That was a part that was commercial and

[17:26] we decided they could go right to what

[17:28] that was. Noel, it was originally

[17:30] supposed to be the senior housing

[17:32] section.

[17:32] >> Okay, got it.

[17:33] >> I think it's the senior senior housing.

[17:35] >> Thank you.

[17:37] So the approved uh POD ordinance number

[17:41] 785 section 7 requires that uh the

[17:45] exterior facade of all residential

[17:47] construction within track 1 2 3 1 2 4 5

[17:51] 6 and 7

[17:53] shall be comprised of no less than 85%

[17:57] brick and similar material.

[18:00] and no single site on a structure shall

[18:02] have more than 15%

[18:05] of any non-break or similar material.

[18:08] It's the intent of this provision to

[18:10] allow window trim entry

[18:13] way above garage door and if decorative

[18:16] treatments using materials other than

[18:18] brick or similar materials. So in such

[18:21] events where

[18:25] uh someone desires to build specific

[18:27] neighborhood areas within this uh UD the

[18:32] design theme that is in consistent

[18:34] [clears throat] with 85%

[18:36] brick

[18:38] uh as a primary material application may

[18:40] be made before the planning commission

[18:42] or the city council for approval of such

[18:44] substitute material.

[18:48] Simply the ordinance establishes 85%

[18:52] machinery requirement to promote durable

[18:55] long-lasting and upscale residential

[18:57] architecture throughout the development.

[19:01] And the same ordinance also recognizes

[19:03] that if someone wishes to do something

[19:05] other than that they may appear before

[19:07] the planning commission for

[19:10] uh approval of such request.

[19:14] So the applicant is using that uh to

[19:18] propose

[19:19] uh a construction in track 4 that uses

[19:23] approximately 35% machinery with the

[19:27] remaining 65%

[19:30] uh hardy board siding.

[19:33] If you could go to the next slide I

[19:35] think there are better images there that

[19:36] shows that. So if you could see so below

[19:40] the window level right little bit above

[19:43] the window level see there is there's

[19:45] breakage [clears throat] over that is a

[19:47] 65% adboard.

[19:51] Now that adibboard is a fiber cement

[19:55] product commonly used in residential

[19:57] construction.

[19:58] Uh it's durable

[20:01] and it's fire resistant and low

[20:03] maintenance. It's easy to maintain.

[20:06] Uh though it differs from

[20:09] [cough and clears throat] you know if

[20:10] you have like 85%

[20:13] brick masonry

[20:16] uh it's a very good

[20:19] high quality exterior cladding material

[20:23] but because the proposal

[20:27] is inconsistent with the PUD that's

[20:29] adopted [snorts]

[20:31] approval by the planning commission and

[20:33] council is required before the

[20:36] alternative ative

[20:38] 35% and 65%.

[20:41] Uh staff reviewed this and we find that

[20:45] the proposed use of the HDI board in

[20:47] combination with 35% merry creates a

[20:51] cohesive um architectural design that is

[20:54] compatible with the surrounding

[20:55] development. And secondly, the material

[20:59] being substituted

[21:01] is strong enough uh it's durable

[21:05] and then

[21:07] it establishes a very distinct theme

[21:10] architectural theme

[21:12] for senior living facility.

[21:16] Uh if you see the image that is there,

[21:19] we already have u

[21:22] I think there was previous exception

[21:25] that was made by the planning commission

[21:26] of I think wind phase six and partly

[21:30] phase three.

[21:32] Uh but the only difference is that that

[21:35] was for the front now they're requesting

[21:37] entire building

[21:40] 3 35%.

[21:42] So with that and with a stipulation

[21:45] under that same section of ordinance

[21:47] number 785,

[21:49] staff recommends that uh the planning

[21:52] commission approves the requested

[21:54] deviation from the exterior facade

[21:56] requirement to allowing

[21:58] exterior consisting of approximately 35%

[22:01] machinery and 65% edible siding subject

[22:06] to the architectural elevations that is

[22:09] provided and I think that was the Second

[22:12] slide.

[22:15] The applicant is here. He may answer any

[22:18] questions that

[22:20] uh may not answer.

[22:25] The HUD dealt with the senior

[22:35] living area or development. It's part of

[22:38] the Windmir and and all of it. Is that

[22:40] correct?

[22:41] >> Correct.

[22:42] >> This would be consistent without that

[22:44] develop within that development.

[22:46] >> Correct.

[22:51] » I'll note that we I mean the 85% is pos

[22:55] partly

[22:59] it's visual and maintenance issue.

[23:06] >> And

[23:08] this is one of your build Yeah. And it's

[23:11] gonna it's going to remain privately

[23:14] owned.

[23:15] Uh probably Miss Meek's going to

[23:17] continue owning it. Uh so the

[23:19] maintenance issue is his and and it's a

[23:24] big enough track there'll be

[23:28] organized maintenance of it.

[23:30] >> Well, they're going to maintain the

[23:31] ownership. They don't go to

[23:32] >> Right.

[23:33] >> people living. [snorts]

[23:35] >> Yeah. It's my understanding that you're going to maintain ownership,

[23:38] right?

[23:39] Okay. [snorts] Uh,

[23:42] and Hardy Board has got a good

[23:44] reputation.

[23:47] I would It's going to be a consistent

[23:54] facility.

[23:58] » Sorry, we sucker you into saying more.

[24:00] We make [laughter] you get up.

[24:02] >> Tony Meek, I need to give my address.

[24:04] Y'all still do that? 215 North Riverside

[24:06] Drive and more. So that is our morph

[24:08] facility. We've got one in Shaunie, one

[24:10] in Noble, and of course one being built

[24:12] here. Um the picture on the left is me

[24:15] actually just kind of outside my window

[24:16] taking a picture of [clears throat] so

[24:19] all these [snorts] buildings in the

[24:20] configuration. It's not like a row of

[24:22] houses where you just see that front

[24:24] elevation. You see all sides as the

[24:26] tenants are. And so that's why we want

[24:28] the uniformity also because it's not it

[24:31] it's a little goofy if you got all you

[24:34] know four sides are seen by four other

[24:36] buildings and one's inconsistent with

[24:38] the other and it's a little hodge podgey

[24:40] and so this is how we've been doing it

[24:43] and tenants love it. Maintenance is all

[24:45] ours. It's this is rental. No no no

[24:48] maintenance required for the tenants.

[24:52] >> I'm comfortable with it. Does anybody

[24:53] have any?

[24:54] >> So, so the last time we made this

[24:55] exception on three and six was after the

[24:58] fact.

[24:58] >> Yeah, that's what my question is. Like,

[25:00] how do we agree to a pud that we agreed

[25:01] to one thing and then we're making

[25:02] exceptions?

[25:03] >> We've already made an exception, right?

[25:04] Remember, because they already put it

[25:06] up.

[25:06] >> Yeah.

[25:06] >> And they came back asked for

[25:07] forgiveness.

[25:09] >> At least this time they're asking for,

[25:12] >> right?

[25:13] >> Yeah.

[25:14] >> Uh

[25:17] I'm just saying that's what happened.

[25:19] >> Yeah. Yeah. That's why we got to that

[25:21] part. I didn't remember that part.

[25:23] >> Yep. That's how it happened.

[25:26] >> I don't think I was here for that part.

[25:28] >> No,

[25:28] >> I wasn't here for that [clears throat]

[25:29] part either.

[25:31] >> Probably means I wasn't either.

[25:32] >> Yeah.

[25:33] >> Okay.

[25:35] >> You're responsible.

[25:36] >> Yeah. [laughter]

[25:40] » Uh I'll make a motion at this point that

[25:42] we recommend this

[25:46] amendment to the bud for this section

[25:50] >> for the senior leading section. Section

[25:52] five. Is that what it is?

[25:54] >> Section seven.

[25:55] Okay. Yeah. For section

[25:58] seven.

[25:59] And

[26:01] >> are there going to be more?

[26:03] >> I think that's all the land that's

[26:04] there, isn't it?

[26:05] >> Yeah, that would be it.

[26:07] >> U

[26:09] that's my motion.

[26:12] >> It's not an amendment to the PUD. It

[26:14] just is because this is written in

[26:15] section seven. So, it's not actually

[26:17] amending the PUD. I just wanted to make

[26:19] that clear. What are we doing if we're

[26:21] not amending the PUD?

[26:22] >> It is allowed in the PUD. They wrote it

[26:25] in the PUD under special provisions that

[26:28] they can go forward to planning

[26:29] commission and city council for any

[26:31] exception to the facade.

[26:34] They wrote it in the PUD to do this

[26:36] process to before planning commission

[26:39] and city council.

[26:40] >> So that way original issues.

[26:43] >> No. Yeah. No.

[26:44] >> All the notice issues for ped

[26:47] >> that way they don't have to go out

[26:48] again. Right.

[26:50] They just come to you guys.

[26:51] >> City council.

[26:54] >> We were that smart.

[26:57] >> Pretty neat trick.

[26:58] >> Yeah.

[26:59] >> So, they are here and I recommend we

[27:01] approve

[27:03] these provisions for

[27:06] section

[27:07] >> seven.

[27:12] And this is this one you already have,

[27:14] right? You already own that and more.

[27:16] You said

[27:24] if they want to do it. And this is the

[27:26] last section. We don't have any more

[27:27] sections of

[27:27] >> Windermir.

[27:38] » I'm sorry.

[27:40] >> Yeah, but there's no They're already

[27:41] being built.

[27:43] >> Yeah, they are.

[27:44] >> There's still There's still structures

[27:46] to be built.

[27:53] Oh, you're talking about it's a it's the

[27:56] plat phase. It's this is the the

[27:59] sections in the PUB, but you're right.

[28:02] That's section five and seven of the

[28:05] plat.

[28:08] >> Yeah.

[28:09] >> Thank you.

[28:12] >> [clears throat]

[28:15] [cough]

[28:18] » Yeah, it's hardy as well.

[28:29] » I'm not too much of a fan of the

[28:31] exception because of its location next

[28:34] to the park and northwest 16th and how

[28:37] it's not

[28:39] connected to windmill

[28:43] there. And

[28:46] you know, I I think the you know, we've

[28:48] made exceptions in the past on the

[28:49] facade and

[28:51] um

[28:54] I think that because of this one's

[28:57] frontage and location and

[29:00] visibility to the public,

[29:03] I I'm more on the fence of making sure

[29:05] that it stays with the city's

[29:08] 85% requirement.

[29:11] >> I'll throw out the

[29:14] because it's separated like you say from

[29:16] the other parts of Windemir

[29:20] [laughter]

[29:20] it's facade

[29:22] seen from the road into the park be more

[29:26] consistent this way than if we have

[29:30] a different ratio on the front and a

[29:32] different ratio on the sides because

[29:36] these buildings are not all oriented

[29:39] toward the road Right.

[29:43] >> And that's kind of what I was thinking.

[29:44] This this would give this development

[29:47] >> you're saying that the value of

[29:48] uniformity having a Wayne's coat around

[29:51] the perimeter rather than this side

[29:53] masonry, this side Hardy and this side.

[29:55] >> Yeah.

[29:57] >> And and I and it just looks like in the

[30:00] pictures there.

[30:00] >> Yeah. It's a pretty

[30:03] >> desirable

[30:06] one of the nicest facilities and more

[30:09] definity

[30:13] package everything

[30:15] consistency. This is a very nice

[30:18] facility.

[30:23] Yeah. And I never [snorts] came before

[30:30] certain sections of it, but I've never

[30:40] » somebody took care of it.

[30:44] » My point is,

[30:46] >> it's all right.

[30:46] >> I mean,

[30:48] >> those things happen sometimes.

[30:51] >> Oh, here's my take on this. If this was

[30:54] going to be sold to individuals, I would

[30:57] 100% be against this.

[31:00] What?

[31:01] >> I would because I feel like that that

[31:04] Hardy board, it may be a good product,

[31:05] but it's not going to be as good as

[31:07] brick.

[31:09] >> It's not.

[31:11] >> So, in my mind, it comes down to the

[31:13] fact that this is all going to be owned

[31:15] by one group is the only reason that I'm

[31:18] considering it.

[31:20] And and this aesthetic comment is

[31:23] relevant.

[31:32] Well, and I really made the motion based

[31:34] on the fact that of aesthetics more than

[31:38] durability because it is going to be

[31:40] under a management group and it's a big

[31:43] enough group that it'll

[31:46] reasonably be continue to be maintained.

[31:50] It's not like

[31:50] >> that's my deal. I didn't want it falling

[31:52] on the senior citizens that are going to

[31:53] be living there to have to repaint every

[31:55] >> 10 And if you just brick it, you don't

[31:58] have to do any of that.

[31:58] >> Yeah. Then that's how we got to the

[32:00] brick in part.

[32:01] >> We had this conversation more than once.

[32:04] >> That's what I was saying. The point that

[32:05] we've decided in the putt already and

[32:07] now we're going to revert it and we've

[32:08] done it more than once.

[32:09] >> Yeah.

[32:11] the

[32:15] but I for a

[32:20] senior

[32:25] living development

[32:27] I mean they're going to be I think are

[32:29] fourplexes and six plexes aren't they?

[32:31] Yeah, four six and I don't know if we

[32:33] have any eightlexes in this one, but

[32:35] yeah, fourlex

[32:37] one we've had for just about 10 years.

[32:40] We haven't had to do any

[32:48] [clears throat]

[32:54] » can I move in? Sorry, I didn't.

[32:56] [laughter]

[33:00] » I can qualify.

[33:03] [snorts] Well, I'm going to leave my

[33:04] motion out there.

[33:08] Don't draw a second. Somebody else is

[33:09] going to have to make one,

[33:13] which is perfectly all right.

[33:25] a second.

[33:26] >> I'm thinking about it. How long have I

[33:28] got?

[33:29] >> I don't know. [laughter]

[33:36] » I'll second it.

[33:39] >> I have a motion and second to recommend

[33:41] approval

[33:43] for this

[33:46] these

[33:51] » what? The Grove. Yeah, the Grove U

[33:56] in favor signify with raised hand

[33:59] three prov

[34:06] I said no.

[34:08] [snorts]

[34:09] >> Thank you.

[34:33] Item 10 is discussion of de on

[34:35] development code update regarding

[34:37] chapter 153 subdivisions. Chapter 1454

[34:41] planning and zoning.

[34:44] Chapter 155 sign regulations.

[34:48] >> What did we already approve today

[34:52] >> for this?

[34:53] >> What what other have we approved in the

[34:56] past? We approved something already,

[34:58] right? other chapters.

[34:59] >> Yes.

[34:59] >> Yeah.

[35:00] >> Oh, nothing has been approved yet. The

[35:03] only thing we

[35:04] >> this, but we did some other chapters and

[35:05] we've added languages on other,

[35:08] >> right?

[35:08] >> So, well, we've done ordinance

[35:10] amendments, but you might be thinking of

[35:12] the comprehensive plan.

[35:13] >> Now, we're not talking about the

[35:14] comprehensive plan.

[35:15] >> We we looked at the first draft.

[35:17] >> Yeah.

[35:17] >> Oh, this is still the same thing

[35:19] document.

[35:20] >> Same document. This is the final draft

[35:22] of So what this is is final draft for

[35:26] the development code update which is

[35:28] chapter 153 subdivision regulations 154

[35:32] the zoning code and 155 the sign

[35:35] regulations.

[35:35] >> And how many of those have we've already

[35:36] been through in detail?

[35:39] >> Okay.

[35:40] >> Well the zoning you guys had not in

[35:42] detail you guys yeah not in detail had we've had stakeholder meetings. I

[35:46] have um staff and Friezen Nichols who's

[35:49] our consultants um and who are well

[35:52] known for doing zoning code update

[35:54] subdivision sign development code

[35:56] regulations for a lot of cities big

[35:59] small Oklahoma region um but they are

[36:02] consultants and we've been working with

[36:03] them for the last almost three years on

[36:06] this project um so it's a rewrite of

[36:10] each one of these chapters so after we

[36:13] adopted the comprehensive plan that was

[36:16] the next step is to update our

[36:18] regulations. So, this is why we're

[36:20] updating the code is to implement the

[36:22] Newcastle 2040 comprehensive plan. Um,

[36:24] reflect the current planning and

[36:26] engineering best practices, improve

[36:28] feasibility for residents and staff and

[36:30] developers, provide predictable

[36:32] development standards, and protect

[36:34] community character while accommodating

[36:36] future growth. So, that's the whole

[36:38] thing, the basis on why doing this

[36:40] update. This is just a little project

[36:42] overview on um the process. We did the

[36:46] uh code diagnostic and then the draft

[36:49] code development and then the code

[36:52] refinement and adoption. So this is

[36:53] where we are right here. Like I said,

[36:55] we've been working on this since August

[36:57] 23 and we're right here right before our

[37:00] adoption.

[37:02] Um, so the comprehensive plan identified

[37:06] that vision, the um, diagnostic report,

[37:10] which I included in that initial email

[37:12] when I sent you the first two chapters

[37:13] of the zoning code and the sign code

[37:15] with the development uh, or the

[37:17] diagnostic report. And then we're

[37:19] getting into the implementing the vision

[37:21] through the update.

[37:23] >> What's the diagnostic report?

[37:25] >> The diagnostic

[37:26] >> I read some of it and I couldn't figure

[37:27] out.

[37:28] >> Okay. So that's where they basically

[37:30] it's kind of a planning jargon where

[37:32] they look at everything in our code

[37:34] current and look identify any barriers

[37:37] whether it's administrative whether it's

[37:39] for develop developers processes

[37:42] um inconsistencies in the code kind of

[37:45] one example that I like to think about

[37:47] is how we have accessory buildings and

[37:49] secondary buildings and [clears throat]

[37:50] the two different definitions and how

[37:53] you can only have a 1500 foot accessory

[37:55] building but if you have a secondary

[37:57] building it can be 25 ft and over 1,000

[37:59] square feet. So, you know, but there's a

[38:02] little bit different setbacks in how you

[38:03] administer those. And so, we're trying

[38:06] to take out things that can be confusing

[38:08] not only to staff that has to implement

[38:11] these uh regulations and but also to

[38:14] obviously our residents, our the

[38:16] community. So, some of the things and I

[38:19] I'll I'll just kind of run through this.

[38:20] somebody uh Frieza Nichols helped me put

[38:23] this together with the um going by what

[38:26] our comprehensive plan goals are

[38:28] preserving Newcastle's rural identity

[38:30] and while accommodating future growth.

[38:32] So we have um taken our for instance our

[38:36] we have our agriculture district our

[38:38] residential rural and our residential

[38:41] estate districts um with purpose

[38:43] statements that directly implement um

[38:46] implement the future land use map.

[38:48] maintains appropriate lot sizes and

[38:50] development patterns. Um requiring

[38:52] transitioning and buffering between a

[38:55] and residential and commercial

[38:56] preserving open space but encouraging

[38:59] growth in appropriate locations while

[39:01] minimizing kind of conflicts between

[39:03] urban and rural land uses. A lot of this

[39:05] comes though down to as you know what

[39:07] guides our growth and where it can

[39:09] happen is our infrastructure where we

[39:11] have available infrastructure. So, you

[39:14] know, where we don't have sewer, those

[39:16] are going to be the the where you're

[39:17] going to have your large lot

[39:19] development. So, trying to keep our

[39:21] infrastructure

[39:23] um

[39:24] localized and prevent a lot of sprawl.

[39:29] >> Let me ask one thing and this is just

[39:31] because I've got paragraph by paragraph.

[39:35] U

[39:37] egg

[39:40] the tables of 154

[39:42] >> which for the record I'm not a fan of

[39:45] but doesn't make any difference but an

[39:48] egg

[39:50] agriculture is agricultural use is a

[39:52] special use

[39:56] you mentioned egg here

[39:59] retaining it [clears throat] why did

[40:01] they do that or did they

[40:02] >> shouldn't be a special use it's are you

[40:05] talking about for the use of um uh

[40:08] animals,

[40:09] >> animals,

[40:11] agriculture,

[40:11] >> all that should be permitted. It should

[40:13] all be permitted. It should all have a

[40:15] P. So if it doesn't go through this,

[40:17] >> then we can we can Yeah, we can

[40:19] definitely look at it. Um looking at

[40:21] different housing opportunities for

[40:24] different life stages, incomes, and

[40:26] household styles. These are all goals in

[40:29] our comprehensive plan. And so the

[40:31] development code implementation

[40:33] introduces um cottage courts as new

[40:36] neighborhood housing op options. Um

[40:39] allowing accessory dwelling units for

[40:41] multi-generational living. Expanding

[40:43] opportunities for town homes and

[40:45] duplexes, tiny homes. um creating a

[40:49] broader range of residential districts

[40:51] with updated dimensional standards and

[40:54] flexibility um while maintaining

[40:56] compatibility with surrounding

[40:57] neighborhoods through use specific

[40:59] standards.

[41:01] Another goal is um creating attractive

[41:04] developments that reinforces Newcastle's

[41:07] identity establishing new architectural

[41:09] design standards for non-residential and

[41:11] multifamily development. Those are two

[41:14] areas where we can commercial

[41:16] development multif family have ability

[41:18] to regulate facades um and bulk on on

[41:23] different lots creating landscaping

[41:26] requirements um really increasing our

[41:29] landscaping requirements for commercial

[41:31] not residential but commercial which

[41:33] would be including multifamily. So

[41:36] anytime multifamily permits come in it's

[41:38] then under a commercial building permit.

[41:40] It's not single family. not one or two

[41:43] family um modern outdoor lighting

[41:46] standards. So for um our our current

[41:50] lighting standards for commercial

[41:52] properties just basically says you have

[41:53] to illuminate your parking lot and

[41:55] prevent glare. Now we're going to say

[41:58] you have to provide us a phototric plan.

[42:01] All lights have to be full cut off

[42:03] fixtures for commercial properties. It

[42:06] can't be beyond a certain can't

[42:07] illuminate beyond your property line at

[42:09] a certain foot handle. Um, and they have

[42:12] to submit those cut sheets and show us

[42:15] what they're going to be using for uh

[42:17] their exterior lighting.

[42:20] Before [clears throat]

[42:21] jump back one to where we've got our

[42:23] cottage

[42:26] cottages and tiny homes

[42:29] >> and residential are

[42:35] >> integrated residential integrated

[42:39] >> and I think our are

[42:42] they were

[42:49] there's duplexes and triplexes provided.

[42:53] And then we get to the cottage homes,

[42:58] the tiny homes

[43:00] and

[43:03] accessory

[43:05] residents, residential accessory

[43:08] buildings,

[43:09] >> accessory dwelling units.

[43:10] >> Yeah. And

[43:16] aren't those just basically multiplex

[43:20] buildings?

[43:21] >> With a lot less words, we could have

[43:23] just back there in residential allowed

[43:25] multiplex buildings.

[43:28] >> Well, they are different because the

[43:30] well like multifamily is usually well

[43:33] can be attached apartment buildings, you

[43:37] know, a cottage cottage garden. uh would

[43:41] more be like two or three, four, think

[43:43] of quad, you know, a quad unit together

[43:46] and having, you know, shared outdoor uh

[43:49] garden area, you know, um tiny homes or

[43:53] ADUs are really going to be standalone.

[43:56] They're not going to be attached and

[43:58] ADUs allowing, we get a lot of that.

[44:01] That's another we get a lot of people

[44:03] coming in. I want my my mother-in-law

[44:06] suite. I want a accessory dwelling unit.

[44:08] I want aging in place. I want my kids to

[44:11] be able to, you know, live near me so

[44:13] they can take care of me on my five

[44:15] acres and I want to have another, you

[44:18] know, house there, um, without having to

[44:21] reszone and, you know, split the

[44:23] property and do that. So, allowing them

[44:25] by right in certain zoning districts to

[44:27] allow that. You still have to have your

[44:30] lot area and you still have to meet your

[44:31] setback regulations. And then the

[44:34] accessory dwelling unit puts a limit to

[44:36] be accessory. I think that we're at 800

[44:38] ft is the maximum that you can have. So,

[44:41] [clears throat] I mean, you can't,

[44:43] >> but it would allow autonomy and somebody

[44:46] to have full dwelling. You know, right

[44:50] now we tell them, well, you can have a

[44:52] studio, but you can't have a kitchen.

[44:54] You can have, you know, and so when

[44:56] they're like, well, can we have a cook

[44:57] top? Can we have a convent, you know, a

[44:59] convection oven? So, it makes it more

[45:03] and more people are coming in and asking

[45:05] for this. That's long overdue.

[45:06] >> Yeah. So, that's that's another thing

[45:08] that really um is going to allow that

[45:13] our comprehensive plan goal to more

[45:16] affordable housing, different types of

[45:18] housing sty styles and types. Um to

[45:22] bring that into fruition.

[45:26] Um

[45:28] okay. Support business growth while

[45:30] maintaining development quality. So, um

[45:33] modernizing our commercial mixed use

[45:35] zoning districts uh to better reflect

[45:37] today's development patterns. A

[45:40] simplified use table. I know that it's

[45:42] hard to get used to and staff and I we

[45:44] have gone over the use table many times

[45:47] and um

[45:50] it is I think that is going to be really

[45:52] nice to be able to use that have that

[45:55] use table especially not just for the

[45:57] planners and staff but for our residents

[46:00] for our community. It's it's easy to go

[46:02] through at first. You have to spend some

[46:04] time looking at it, but I think it

[46:06] really uh clarifies what's permitted. Um

[46:10] it also adds in our parking requirement

[46:12] as well, so you're not going to a

[46:13] different section looking for that. Um

[46:16] the review process and procedures are

[46:19] updated, more flexibility, updated

[46:22] parking standards, um aligned

[46:24] development regulations with future

[46:26] commercial corridors identified in our

[46:29] comprehensive plan.

[46:31] Another goal is connected community safe

[46:34] transportation opions

[46:35] [clears throat and cough] and efficient

[46:36] infrastructure. Um requiring more

[46:39] interconnected street networks. Um

[46:43] limits unnecessary culde-sacs by

[46:46] promoting future street connection

[46:48] sidewalks and new developments except in

[46:51] rural districts where appropriate. They

[46:53] won't be in a they're not going to be in

[46:54] our our estate district. um uh standard

[46:59] street classifications um pedestrian

[47:02] facilities and some low impact

[47:04] development options

[47:06] with improved drainage standards and

[47:09] coordinated utility extensions and park

[47:12] and trail dedications requirements.

[47:16] So implementing the diagnostic report um

[47:19] the findings from that report because

[47:22] you were asking some of that stuff that

[47:24] they found is information spread across

[47:26] multiple ordinances repetitive and

[47:28] outdated provisions. It's difficult for

[47:31] applicants and staff to locate some of

[47:33] the requirements and limited graphics um

[47:36] with some inconsistent formatting. So

[47:38] it's or reorganized into three

[47:41] coordinated ordinances consist

[47:43] consistent chapter organization and

[47:45] numbering. We wanted to keep everything

[47:47] consistent with the current chapters and

[47:50] we worked really hard to make sure

[47:53] especially in residential more so than

[47:56] anything um with our districts that we

[47:58] will not have any um there won't be um

[48:03] nonconformities

[48:05] created by the adoption of the new uh

[48:09] designations.

[48:10] So it'll it'll take everything in that's

[48:13] already current and there will not be

[48:16] non-conforming lots like we have. In

[48:18] fact, by doing this, we probably will

[48:20] have more conformity on some lots except

[48:24] a because a stay in five acres. So if

[48:26] you have a 1acre a lot, you're

[48:28] inconsistent. But anyway, um so modern

[48:33] formatting with tables, consolidated

[48:35] development standards into dedicated

[48:37] chapters, comprehensive definitions and

[48:40] cross references.

[48:41] Some do zoning districts uh no longer

[48:44] reflect the desired pattern of

[48:46] development and regulations lack some

[48:48] clear connection and adopted planning

[48:50] policies. So the new code, every

[48:52] district includes a purpose statement

[48:54] tied to the future land use map. The new

[48:57] zoning districts and standards support

[48:59] community vision established in the

[49:00] comprehensive plan and the updated

[49:03] subdivision and site design standards

[49:06] reinforce the long-term growth

[49:08] objectives.

[49:10] So some of the other findings was

[49:11] limited housing options, outdated land

[49:14] use classifications and development

[49:16] patterns that don't reflect current

[49:18] market needs. And that's where it comes

[49:19] in where I kind of started this off

[49:21] about cottage courts, ADUs, town homes

[49:24] and tiny homes. modernized commercial

[49:26] and mixed use districts and updated

[49:28] table with consistent regulations.

[49:33] Some of the other uh diagnostic findings

[49:36] were site development requirements were

[49:39] in inconsistent limited landscaping

[49:41] design standards and there was few

[49:44] regulations addressing compatibility

[49:47] between land uses. So now we have beefed

[49:50] up our landscaping, outdoor lighting,

[49:52] architecture, outdoor lighting for

[49:54] commercial. Mind you, that doesn't apply

[49:56] to residential

[49:58] um architecture, parking, screening,

[50:00] infield development, and performance

[50:02] standards.

[50:04] >> Back up one, I want you to elaborate

[50:07] just a little bit on that. I apologize.

[50:09] I haven't read nearly as much as I

[50:10] should.

[50:10] >> That's okay.

[50:11] >> Your regulations addressing

[50:12] compatibility between land uses. Would

[50:14] you like to expand upon that about a

[50:17] little bit?

[50:18] >> Um you what they really mean by those

[50:21] seven words.

[50:22] >> So,

[50:24] I'll use our our um maybe our a

[50:27] development and um non-conforming lots

[50:32] incompatibility between some land uses.

[50:35] Put me on the spot here.

[50:38] >> Yeah. Put me on the spot. I knew I was

[50:39] going to get put on the spot question. I

[50:41] just didn't ask.

[50:42] >> Yeah. [laughter]

[50:44] >> Um

[50:45] >> and you can answer it later. I don't

[50:47] have to have it right now. I'd rather

[50:48] have

[50:49] >> Let me let me think about that. I

[50:50] appreciate that. Let me think about some

[50:52] of that. I went through that and I

[50:54] thought, okay, how am I going to answer

[50:56] some of these? And you got me. So, let

[50:57] me let me think about that one.

[50:59] >> Okay.

[51:01] >> Um, some of the review procedures and

[51:04] approval responsibilities and

[51:07] inconsistent application requirements. I

[51:09] explained one of them about the

[51:10] secondary and accessory structures. Some

[51:14] of the stuff. Okay. So even in agg we

[51:16] have landscaping requirements currently

[51:19] in our zoning district. We don't I mean

[51:21] we have the tree requirement but we're

[51:23] not making people we have to kind of go

[51:26] that should not apply here you know

[51:28] we're not making people put in 5% of

[51:31] landscaping when they come in and do a

[51:34] single family house you know so

[51:37] >> that's some of the inconsistencies in

[51:39] that that's one example

[51:40] >> that's one I'd like one I want some more

[51:43] I will

[51:44] >> okay um so

[51:47] >> identifying that those type of things

[51:49] and and then coming up with some more

[51:51] standard application procedures and

[51:53] requirements which you all know that um

[51:56] and since the last remind me was it 24

[51:59] so two years we've been on MGO correct

[52:02] Kathy so when we went to MGO um my

[52:06] government online you know all of our

[52:07] >> permitting online not for for our zoning

[52:12] and reszoning and board of adjustment

[52:13] but all of our building permits all

[52:16] building permits are done online flood

[52:18] plane permits are done online new uh

[52:20] driveway permits. So single

[52:23] [clears throat] anything if they if you

[52:24] came in for a building permit, you're

[52:26] doing it through MGO. Um that's helped

[52:29] us quite a bit, but we still have to

[52:31] administer the regulation in that. So um

[52:35] I feel like I've gotten really good

[52:38] feedback on I mean for most people, you

[52:41] know, and if somebody doesn't have a

[52:42] computer or can't do it, we have one in

[52:44] the office and they can do it right

[52:46] there. So, um, that's been part part of

[52:49] this whole update for Newcastle. Um, so

[52:53] we've got, uh, authority approval

[52:57] tables, updated appeals and relief

[52:59] procedures, and improved administrative

[53:02] review processes.

[53:05] So, key element, chapter 153,

[53:08] subdivisions. And

[53:09] >> this the one we've already been in,

[53:10] right? 1534

[53:13] >> 54.

[53:14] >> Yeah, this is subdivision. So, we've got

[53:16] an updated procedure for the sketch plat

[53:19] through the final plat standardized

[53:21] application requirements, abbreviated

[53:24] plat and deed approval process for minor

[53:27] subdivisions.

[53:28] Um, defined uh authorities and

[53:30] development review team responsibilities

[53:34] and alternate compliance and waiver

[53:37] procedures to provide some flexibility

[53:39] while maintaining ordinance intent. So

[53:42] pre-application what we kind of do we we

[53:44] are following this right now. People

[53:46] come they say hey I want to talk to you

[53:48] about how I'm going to do this 10 acres

[53:51] on Highway 76 and what can I do? I want

[53:55] to do a commercial development. So we

[53:57] bring them in and have them kind of

[53:59] bring in a site plan. We look at the

[54:01] current zoning. We look at what their

[54:03] proposal is and walk them through. Okay,

[54:06] you're [clears throat] going to have to

[54:06] do a subdivision. You're going to have

[54:08] to do a reszoning to a pud. You have to

[54:10] make this uh both these applications

[54:14] will go forward at the same time and

[54:16] given the parameters and kind of what

[54:17] the approval plat review staff

[54:20] assessment of their resoning request and

[54:24] then the notice procedure and what has

[54:26] to happen for that to come to fruition

[54:29] for them for the reasonzoning. And a lot

[54:31] of times and I will have people I had

[54:33] somebody come in that wanted to do a

[54:35] development on Main Street and they

[54:36] wanted to do industrial right on Main

[54:38] Street and

[54:41] >> was like well staff is not going to make

[54:43] you it is their right oh you anybody has

[54:46] a right to request type of reasonzoning

[54:50] it means right and so then that's why we

[54:52] have that land use map and I look at it

[54:54] and I go well you see that red right

[54:56] there it says commercial it doesn't have

[54:58] the the gray it's not industrial Our

[55:01] land use map, our policy guide says we

[55:04] kind of we want to develop our main

[55:06] street and our frontages as industrial.

[55:08] We don't want

[55:10] >> commercial.

[55:11] >> Sorry. As commercial. Thank you, sir.

[55:14] >> Thank you. Thank you for that catching

[55:15] me. We don't want to ind develop it as

[55:18] industrial. We don't want many

[55:20] warehouses and you know industrial land

[55:23] uses on our on our commercial frontages.

[55:25] So that happens. So then I tell them and

[55:28] they go well okay maybe we won't do that

[55:30] we'll come back with something else and

[55:32] then we say hey okay planning commission

[55:36] and then city council and then that's

[55:39] the kind of the process that we're

[55:41] following right now but it it outlines

[55:43] it very clearly.

[55:45] So standards for lot layout, block

[55:48] design and street connectivity, updated

[55:50] standards for street hierarchy, block

[55:52] lengths and street design requiring

[55:54] sidewalks, pedestrian connections,

[55:57] street trees were appropriate, and

[55:59] improved access management to support

[56:02] safer streets of future connectivity.

[56:04] Our street widths have not changed.

[56:06] We're not changing, we're not reducing

[56:08] our local

[56:10] uh or um collector. for not reducing

[56:14] those street sizes. Why I'm on that and

[56:17] know you'll see coming up in zoning. We

[56:19] haven't changed our minimum lot area

[56:21] requirement for RF1. The things that I

[56:24] know that are important to planning

[56:26] commissioners city that I've heard

[56:28] overall have have really maintained.

[56:31] There's been, you know, movements for

[56:34] you've heard no parking requirements,

[56:37] you know, smaller street widths, slow

[56:39] down traffic. You know, I know some of

[56:41] these things and I've been guided by

[56:42] council and planning commission, but

[56:44] that's not something

[56:45] >> smaller street list. You get lots of

[56:47] nonsense about wider streets.

[56:49] >> Yeah. Right. I do. I do. We want wider

[56:52] streets, but everything is but they've

[56:54] all stayed the same. So, that's not been

[56:56] any change in that.

[56:58] >> Um, here you are with the street design

[57:01] standards as we were talking about. So,

[57:03] everything is basically the same with

[57:05] that. um

[57:10] parks and open spaces um expanded

[57:13] requirements. We've had a pretty good

[57:15] one because we did an update several

[57:17] years ago. I think it was 22 maybe.

[57:20] Yeah, 22 or 23 where we beefed up our

[57:23] parkland dedication requirement and also

[57:26] required that fee in lie of basically

[57:28] it's staying the same on that. Um, you

[57:31] can get really you can get really ind

[57:35] depth with amount of parkland and

[57:37] improvements, but I think ours is just

[57:39] as right now it's

[57:40] >> called in the weeds. That's what it's

[57:42] called. Yeah.

[57:42] >> Yeah. There you go. Thank you, sir.

[57:44] >> But I like too that

[57:47] the fee is described if they pay the

[57:48] fee, it's described right there with it

[57:50] where that fee goes.

[57:51] >> That's right.

[57:52] >> Nobody has to ask the question.

[57:53] >> That's right. That's right. And it it

[57:54] goes to that park l to that fund. Um,

[57:58] we've updated some of our technical

[58:00] standards, um, you know, for water,

[58:02] sewer, um, storm water, um, roads,

[58:07] improved driveway and access management,

[58:09] modern street crosssections, um,

[58:12] improved sidewalk design standards.

[58:15] Basically, inquiring requiring a little

[58:18] bit more sidewalk widths on some lecture

[58:21] streets and where it's not just the

[58:23] sidewalk and giving some real standards

[58:25] to it. Um, enhanced construction plan uh

[58:28] requirements. Also, better drainage and

[58:31] utility coordination,

[58:34] zoning. So, there's our our

[58:37] previous zoning district and the new

[58:39] zoning district. Um we've got a is

[58:42] staying the same. So, E1

[58:45] is now the RR and ET1 what we did is we

[58:50] took it down from a 2acre requirement

[58:52] minimum to a oneacre requirement.

[58:55] >> E1 one acre or more.

[58:58] >> Yep. And then E2 and three, which G2 was

[59:02] the one acre and the E3 was the 27,000

[59:05] square feet. We took that to RE and that

[59:09] now is exactly a half acre instead of

[59:12] the 27,000 square feet because we've had

[59:16] well, you've seen multiple subdivisions

[59:18] come in and they what do they do? they

[59:20] end up writing a pud so they can do the

[59:22] half acre instead of the 27 because

[59:25] that's the minimum requirement for

[59:27] on-site treatment for your waste

[59:28] >> for a ladder field.

[59:30] >> Yep.

[59:31] >> Um then we've created the the RS is the

[59:34] RF1. That's basically a new

[59:37] single family residential. Instead of

[59:39] calling it RF1, it's RS to follow in

[59:42] line with the uh abbreviations. And then

[59:45] residential integrated takes in your RF2

[59:48] three your um R mobile home and then oh

[59:54] sorry it only takes in the two and the

[59:56] three and then the residential

[59:58] multifamily is your mobile home RF

[1:00:01] >> residential integrated is

[1:00:04] >> yeah duplexes and RF3 triplexes

[1:00:09] um multi-family

[1:00:12] » cottage is two and three I'm Sorry.

[1:00:14] Yeah. Is it cottages? Yes.

[1:00:16] >> Is tiny homes in that too?

[1:00:17] >> That would be in tiny homes,

[1:00:18] manufactured homes

[1:00:21] >> in the resident residential integrated.

[1:00:24] >> And what's it? Okay. It doesn't matter

[1:00:26] because they're not they're not two.

[1:00:27] They're just one now. Okay.

[1:00:28] >> And then your um mobile home

[1:00:31] >> allow mobile homes smaller than five

[1:00:32] acres though, right?

[1:00:34] >> Pardon? Unless you're a mobile home park

[1:00:36] and you could have a mobile home park.

[1:00:38] Yeah, that's what that's if they want to

[1:00:40] develop a mobile home park. We're

[1:00:42] getting lots of inquiries now because

[1:00:44] you know that everything it's been

[1:00:46] announced the hospital I mean it was in

[1:00:48] the paper they're going to have the

[1:00:50] groundbreaking

[1:00:51] you know and they're it's been announced

[1:00:54] and there is a lot of inquiries

[1:00:57] or I want to make an RV park. We had

[1:01:00] several people come in and they just

[1:01:01] want to make an RV park on their land

[1:01:03] and then we go well you have to do this.

[1:01:06] You're gonna have to count for your

[1:01:07] storm water. You you have to pave your

[1:01:10] roads. you're gonna have and then they

[1:01:12] realize, oh, it's not just I can't pull

[1:01:14] mobile homes on grass and you know,

[1:01:17] >> call it good.

[1:01:19] >> I didn't I didn't see the paper article.

[1:01:20] When they start [clears throat] digging,

[1:01:22] we know.

[1:01:23] >> Um I do not know when they're starting

[1:01:25] to dig, but

[1:01:26] >> I'm sure I can Google it. I'm sure.

[1:01:27] >> Yeah, they're um

[1:01:29] >> groundbreaking. Friday.

[1:01:31] >> Okay.

[1:01:31] >> Oh, this Friday.

[1:01:32] >> No, this Friday.

[1:01:33] >> Okay. They're starting on the pharmacy

[1:01:35] first. Are they starting on the pharmacy

[1:01:37] first? [cough and clears throat]

[1:01:37] Starting on

[1:01:38] >> I don't know that part. I guess the

[1:01:40] hospital hospital.

[1:01:42] >> Well, I know

[1:01:45] >> it's like the the actual hospital part

[1:01:46] of the hospital.

[1:01:48] >> Okay.

[1:01:50] >> You're right. They're doing different.

[1:01:52] They have a pharmacy component,

[1:01:54] hospital, ER on I mean the the the plans

[1:01:59] are you know you've heard the mayor talk

[1:02:01] about it in depth and now the nation has

[1:02:04] announced it and yeah they've got their

[1:02:05] groundbreaking but since that is known

[1:02:09] there are a lot of more development

[1:02:10] inquiries for what can I do with my land

[1:02:14] >> temporary housing. Yeah.

[1:02:15] >> What you're talking about.

[1:02:16] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:02:18] >> And and housing is not cheap in this

[1:02:20] part of the world. No, it is not.

[1:02:23] So CN1 and office and are now under

[1:02:28] commercial neighborhood and the C2 and

[1:02:31] office 2 is under the commercial

[1:02:32] regional. So basically the the CN1 is

[1:02:37] and the the office the light office use

[1:02:40] is commercial neighborhood. Not too much

[1:02:42] change there really at all. Same thing

[1:02:44] with commercial regional for the CC2.

[1:02:47] What we did on the industrial districts

[1:02:50] is we the light industrials basically uh

[1:02:54] IIL now same thing but instead of having

[1:02:57] two heavy industrial or a moderate and

[1:03:00] heavy we just made a heavy industrial

[1:03:02] district there wasn't that much

[1:03:04] difference between the two maybe very

[1:03:07] little you know but easier just to have

[1:03:10] it and we don't have a lot of IM1

[1:03:12] designation

[1:03:13] >> yeah there's not a lot of purple in that

[1:03:15] covered that

[1:03:17] >> and and uh PUD we're allowing um a

[1:03:20] planned unit development. It's a zoning

[1:03:22] designation but also a mixeduse

[1:03:23] development as well.

[1:03:27] So this is the table that you'll see now

[1:03:30] instead of going through and it it it

[1:03:32] spells it out. We have it in a table

[1:03:35] which you get your lot area, your lot

[1:03:37] width, your coverage, your setbacks.

[1:03:40] It's all nicely put into a dimensional

[1:03:42] standards table and then your applicable

[1:03:45] development regulations for your parking

[1:03:47] landscaping if appropriate and any other

[1:03:49] ones are found in the sections below.

[1:03:54] Updated use tables um and use base

[1:03:57] standards um land uses allowed by zoning

[1:04:01] district um by right or special permit.

[1:04:04] Minimum parking uh uh ratios are in that

[1:04:07] use table like I said. And then specific

[1:04:10] regulations for certain land uses to

[1:04:12] mitigate any adverse development impacts

[1:04:15] and regulations for accessory and

[1:04:16] temporary uses are established. And all

[1:04:19] use type definitions are located in that

[1:04:21] definition section.

[1:04:22] >> So your second bullet on that previous

[1:04:24] one is rations. I don't think

[1:04:26] >> I know. I just noticed that that they

[1:04:28] and Ied it when I said it.

[1:04:31] >> I [laughter] don't

[1:04:32] give this to the city. Yeah, I will do

[1:04:35] any iron. Thank you. I I don't want any

[1:04:37] rations. [laughter]

[1:04:40] Thank you. Um

[1:04:43] so there's the modernized use table. So

[1:04:46] you have all of your zoning districts

[1:04:48] and um and that you are correct. They do

[1:04:52] that. This is they must have got this is

[1:04:55] not correct. And I'm sorry I did not

[1:04:57] catch that when I went through this. I

[1:04:58] was not looking at the table itself. I

[1:05:02] just looked at the table.

[1:05:04] All of the a operations. Those are

[1:05:07] allowed by right the stable.

[1:05:11] So well the feed farm supply would be a

[1:05:13] special use if you're going to have like

[1:05:15] an a farm supply commercial business and

[1:05:18] a I'll have to go I can go to I want to

[1:05:21] see if that

[1:05:25] >> is that I mean I realize that would be

[1:05:27] on agriculture land but that's actually

[1:05:28] a commercial application correct?

[1:05:32] Well, and deeper.

[1:05:33] >> Yes, it would be a commercial

[1:05:34] application.

[1:05:36] >> Deeper in there's a

[1:05:39] area that I've got a note. Well, I've

[1:05:41] got a note there, too. But, u

[1:05:45] if

[1:05:50] I don't remember. Well, I can go find

[1:05:53] it. Um,

[1:05:56] okay. So those

[1:06:00] so any a operation would be like a um if

[1:06:04] I'm going to have a

[1:06:07] um a cattle operation or if I'm going to

[1:06:09] have you know I'm raising

[1:06:13] >> that's just egg right

[1:06:14] >> that's just egg

[1:06:15] >> agra entertainment agra entertainment

[1:06:17] >> yeah what is that

[1:06:18] >> that's like that's like what the barn at

[1:06:20] country club is like a agur

[1:06:24] >> petting zoo yeah something like that um

[1:06:29] aquaculture

[1:06:31] >> my wife feeding the deer.

[1:06:33] >> Well, no, you're not inviting. I had

[1:06:35] somebody that was another it was

[1:06:38] recently somebody wanted to do that on

[1:06:40] their land and they said, "Well, we just

[1:06:41] want to we just want to have some goats

[1:06:43] and and horses and we want people to

[1:06:46] come out and I said, "So, you you want

[1:06:49] to sell tickets?" Well, yeah. I mean, I

[1:06:52] want to have people come out and, you

[1:06:54] know, like a petting zoo and you just

[1:06:57] want to do it on our land and, you know,

[1:07:00] and so it's really hard because then

[1:07:02] you're that's a commercial business. I

[1:07:04] have to tell them

[1:07:06] >> that's a commercial business. You can

[1:07:08] not just have your own personal animals

[1:07:10] and start inviting people out to your

[1:07:12] house and say, you know, we're going to

[1:07:14] have buses come out and say, call it,

[1:07:16] you know, Betty's petting zoo. You're

[1:07:18] turning a agriculture. it's into

[1:07:21] commercial use. So that requires

[1:07:23] reszoning. And then when people find

[1:07:25] out, oh, I have to have parking. I have

[1:07:27] to have a restroom for these people to

[1:07:28] use. I have to have uh I have

[1:07:32] >> they they want to give them the real

[1:07:33] experience and show them where the tree

[1:07:34] is.

[1:07:35] >> Yeah. So So you're these are these are

[1:07:38] correct. That would be special uses. But

[1:07:40] then you can continue down. You got your

[1:07:42] permitted single family dwelling. You

[1:07:44] have a manufactured home that's allowed,

[1:07:46] a modular home, a tiny home. Um, and

[1:07:50] then you can see

[1:07:52] >> if I've got five or 40 or 80 acres, I've

[1:07:55] got to ask you whether I can run cattle

[1:07:56] on it.

[1:07:57] >> No,

[1:07:58] >> that's what that agriculture operation.

[1:08:00] What does that say? Wrong. That one

[1:08:01] designator is not but the rest of them

[1:08:03] are right or the rest of them are wrong.

[1:08:05] >> Well, if you're going to have agame,

[1:08:07] agra entertainment or a aquaculture

[1:08:10] feed.

[1:08:10] >> Is that aquaman or what is aquaculture?

[1:08:13] >> Uh, like a probably like a fish farm.

[1:08:15] Okay.

[1:08:16] >> Fish farm.

[1:08:17] >> Yep. That shouldn't be

[1:08:20] >> that's kind of like raising horses.

[1:08:21] >> Well, and some of those and and I I

[1:08:23] think

[1:08:24] >> commercial fishing.

[1:08:25] >> I think that some of those things if

[1:08:27] you're doing it as a commercial

[1:08:28] operation and that's different than I'm

[1:08:31] doing it as

[1:08:34] say I'm I'm like the parakeet guy like

[1:08:37] but he's Yeah, like the parakeet guy

[1:08:39] something like that. He's an industrial

[1:08:42] so that's not a good example. But I'm

[1:08:45] raising fish, but I'm not selling them.

[1:08:46] So, I'm not too worried about you.

[1:08:48] >> We're all raising fish if we got ponds.

[1:08:50] Right.

[1:08:51] >> Right.

[1:08:51] >> No, that's not that's not what that's

[1:08:53] talking about. So, clarification. That's

[1:08:56] where we're going to go to.

[1:08:57] >> I'm comfortable with you knowing the

[1:08:58] difference between that. So, I'm not

[1:09:00] really griping about that. But that is

[1:09:04] >> wrong because ought to be able to do

[1:09:07] >> I see what you're saying.

[1:09:09] >> Commercial agricult.

[1:09:10] >> That's maybe what it needs to say. and if we go to the if we go to the

[1:09:14] definition

[1:09:16] >> then you will see that that's more of a

[1:09:18] commercial use. So

[1:09:20] >> not done that

[1:09:22] >> um but the uh allowance for um uh

[1:09:26] animals on agg and on the um RR are

[1:09:30] still the same. You still have to have

[1:09:32] 70,000 square feet for each horse,

[1:09:35] 30,000 square feet for each cow, 20 we

[1:09:38] did not change any of that. Those are

[1:09:40] still allowed by right in in a in the

[1:09:44] RR. So just like it is in E1. So that

[1:09:47] still is the same. You couldn't have

[1:09:49] those animals in E2 or E3 or any other

[1:09:52] design.

[1:09:53] >> Somebody comes on your property to buy

[1:09:54] something from you. It turns into

[1:09:56] commercial.

[1:09:58] >> If I'm selling if I'm selling fresh

[1:10:00] eggs, no, it's more if I'm have you

[1:10:03] can't have a sign out. If it's a home

[1:10:05] occupation and I want to sell my eggs,

[1:10:08] you know, we we allow that. That's not a

[1:10:14] commercial. I have a storefront and

[1:10:16] >> hay bales.

[1:10:17] >> Pardon?

[1:10:18] >> Hay bales.

[1:10:18] >> Hay bells. That's that we sell hay

[1:10:21] bales. All that stuff. Those No, you're

[1:10:23] right. Where the line is.

[1:10:24] >> It would be it would

[1:10:26] >> that's what I've got some questions here

[1:10:27] is on the feed and supply farmers

[1:10:30] selling crops in bulk.

[1:10:32] >> That's an a operation.

[1:10:34] And it ought to be I mean I noted here

[1:10:36] you know three or five 600 pound totes

[1:10:39] of

[1:10:40] >> wheat corn ry whatever oats

[1:10:44] >> that's that's agriculture at some point

[1:10:46] and do we need to designate some cut off

[1:10:49] at the bottom end that you're selling an

[1:10:51] individual bag individually bagged feeds

[1:10:54] or if I drove over in my truck and

[1:10:57] having load my truck with a load of corn

[1:11:00] >> that's not what this is that's

[1:11:03] No, you can. That's what I'm saying. I

[1:11:06] >> Yeah, that's not what

[1:11:07] >> Do we bother putting that in there so

[1:11:08] it's there or do we just depend on you?

[1:11:11] >> I think

[1:11:11] >> we need it clearer. I can tell you that.

[1:11:13] >> I I I want to make it clear so everybody

[1:11:15] is comfortable with it and so people

[1:11:18] aren't having those questions. Well, I

[1:11:20] can't sell hay for my 40 acres now.

[1:11:22] Well, sure you can. It's not a

[1:11:25] storefront. I guess that that and then

[1:11:28] we also need to look at the definitions

[1:11:30] and make sure our definitions are

[1:11:31] correct, too. But it it changes when

[1:11:34] well just like the feed store that just

[1:11:36] ended up selling that is you know a

[1:11:39] commercial business

[1:11:40] >> commercial. Yeah.

[1:11:41] >> So you have people you have a retail

[1:11:43] storefront.

[1:11:44] >> You're selling hay bales and I'm a

[1:11:46] that's a that's a farming operation

[1:11:48] that's allowed. That's not is not

[1:11:50] something

[1:11:51] >> I think the dividing line somewhere is

[1:11:52] the the amount

[1:11:54] >> amount. Yeah.

[1:11:55] >> A bulk sale versus

[1:11:58] >> how many people you can have. Nobody wents

[1:12:02] and bought

[1:12:04] 250

[1:12:06] bills of hay

[1:12:07] >> but they buy them three and five and

[1:12:11] that number so I mean it's really the

[1:12:14] quantity that it's a dividing factor

[1:12:18] there aren't very many farmers that want

[1:12:20] >> interesting traffic

[1:12:21] >> also it's also traffic I mean like our

[1:12:23] home occupation there are certain things

[1:12:26] that you can't do that we have a lot of

[1:12:28] people that try to do them, which is ma

[1:12:31] contractors. I want to I run a

[1:12:34] landscaping business and I live in

[1:12:35] suburban estates and I end up having all

[1:12:39] my crew come over to my house and park

[1:12:41] their cars,

[1:12:42] >> start the day

[1:12:42] >> and start the day and I bring my

[1:12:45] >> my house in 76 every day.

[1:12:46] >> I bring my my my stuff. You have to, you

[1:12:49] know, that would be code enforcement. If

[1:12:51] there's a complaint, then we can work

[1:12:52] that complaint

[1:12:54] >> nails every three times a year.

[1:12:56] >> Yeah. But so when you're it changes when

[1:12:59] you're running having employees, having

[1:13:03] signage, having that type of use. If I'm

[1:13:07] a professional and I want to have a

[1:13:09] consulting business out of my home and I

[1:13:11] work from home, you know, and I don't

[1:13:14] have any employees, I don't have a sign,

[1:13:16] it's not commercial, I don't have

[1:13:17] customers coming and going. If I'm a,

[1:13:20] you know, an accountant, I might have

[1:13:22] one or two clients a day come over, but

[1:13:25] it's like anybody else visiting. You

[1:13:27] know, you can have a professional

[1:13:28] office. So, um, those are kind of some

[1:13:32] of the differences that we still are

[1:13:33] keeping in here. So, I mean, that's what

[1:13:36] I'm saying. Your a operations, your

[1:13:38] daily kind of I'm a, you know, farmer

[1:13:41] bill and I've got 80 acres and I'm

[1:13:43] selling, you know, my hay and I have

[1:13:46] it's like out here on Main Street, you

[1:13:48] know. for sale

[1:13:50] >> that that's you know it's not

[1:13:54] that's not a side of anything that I

[1:13:56] would think about a agriculture

[1:13:58] operation. It's not a storefront not

[1:14:01] commercial.

[1:14:02] >> Okay.

[1:14:04] >> I hope that explains some of it. This is

[1:14:06] the new modernized use table and we will

[1:14:09] go thoroughly through it thoroughly to

[1:14:12] make sure that um every zoning district

[1:14:16] has the correct if it's permitted if it

[1:14:18] is a special uh use. If it's blank, it's

[1:14:21] per it is an allowed use. I'm sorry.

[1:14:25] It's prohibited if it is a blank cell.

[1:14:29] Okay.

[1:14:29] >> While you're there,

[1:14:30] >> he is permitted. Yes. in the residential

[1:14:33] uses section

[1:14:36] >> U R1

[1:14:40] or R I

[1:14:43] the cottage court the duplex and forplex

[1:14:50] >> shouldn't those be special uses because

[1:14:52] we've got housing addition and you're

[1:14:54] going to come in in the middle of that

[1:14:55] and put a little cottage court

[1:14:58] >> that's not the single family that's the

[1:15:00] RARI district So RS is the single

[1:15:04] family.

[1:15:04] >> Okay.

[1:15:05] And the RI is the residential in

[1:15:08] integrated. So the integrated is

[1:15:10] supposed to like I be allow a

[1:15:14] development to have multiple housing

[1:15:16] styles in there where I would be maybe

[1:15:19] in the you know front section. I might

[1:15:21] have a little commercial section and on

[1:15:23] the front um with boutique strip retail

[1:15:28] center and then behind that I'm going to

[1:15:30] have my uh uh town homes and then I

[1:15:34] might have multifamily apartments and

[1:15:37] then I might

[1:15:37] >> quick trip on the corner doesn't have to

[1:15:39] be zoned commercially.

[1:15:40] >> It can be well this is under well that

[1:15:44] would you're going to get into a

[1:15:45] mixeduse or a pud because you're going

[1:15:47] to say okay track one in the corner is

[1:15:49] going to be commercial and then behind

[1:15:51] that I'm going to do a mixeduse

[1:15:52] development. I'm going to allow

[1:15:54] everything in the RARI district because

[1:15:56] I want the ability to have the cottage

[1:15:59] apartments, the multifamily, the single

[1:16:01] family. I might even want um you know,

[1:16:06] >> correct. Yeah.

[1:16:08] >> Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I was a little

[1:16:11] concerned that we were

[1:16:15] >> RI

[1:16:17] that were getting ourselves in a

[1:16:19] position that we're baptizing or

[1:16:22] blessing

[1:16:25] Riverview.

[1:16:27] >> No,

[1:16:27] >> estates. Not estates, but village. The

[1:16:30] village that we just said we don't like.

[1:16:32] >> Right. But still

[1:16:35] is you still would have to go if you're

[1:16:37] going to do any type of development like

[1:16:39] that where you're going to have multiple

[1:16:40] unless I'm just going to you know this

[1:16:43] residential if I'm which right now you

[1:16:46] got to remember there's nothing zoned ri

[1:16:48] I there's nothing right now so people

[1:16:51] would have to come in and reszone to

[1:16:54] that district which probably means that

[1:16:56] they would want to do a mixeduse

[1:16:59] development or pud to be be able to

[1:17:03] achieve a development like that. Um,

[1:17:05] that's the only way you're going to be

[1:17:06] able

[1:17:06] >> to give them an RAI zone zoning. We've

[1:17:09] said you can do that here.

[1:17:10] >> Well, there's no commercial in the RARI.

[1:17:13] It's just as this is all residential in

[1:17:15] the RARI,

[1:17:18] but it does allow it allows everything

[1:17:21] except your mixeduse building and your

[1:17:23] and an apartment. supposed to be like um

[1:17:27] single family dwellings but different

[1:17:30] types of dwellings allowed within that.

[1:17:33] >> I'm sure I should know this but I've got

[1:17:35] to ask it. What is the difference

[1:17:37] between a manufactured home and a

[1:17:39] modular home?

[1:17:39] >> I'll let Julie explain that. She's

[1:17:42] really good at it.

[1:17:43] >> Are you great at that?

[1:17:44] >> She's really good at that.

[1:17:45] >> Jump right up here and tell us that

[1:17:46] because we're both interested.

[1:17:49] >> Make it smarter tonight.

[1:17:50] It's one of those things that's in our

[1:17:52] in in our code and to clean that up. But

[1:17:55] she's she's well-versed at this.

[1:17:58] >> Modules, Legos.

[1:18:01] >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So, modular homes

[1:18:04] are manufactured

[1:18:08] by modules and they put those modules

[1:18:11] together uh at a location. Mhm.

[1:18:14] >> And in order for anyone to bring in a

[1:18:17] modular home to the city of Newcastle

[1:18:21] limits, there are some requirements that

[1:18:23] they have to fulfill and uh so because

[1:18:27] we don't know what standards that they

[1:18:29] use in order to manufacture those

[1:18:32] modules. So there is uh some steps

[1:18:36] that's

[1:18:38] achievable but some say it may it might

[1:18:42] be a little bit cumbersome because it

[1:18:44] requires

[1:18:46] um inspections by the IC

[1:18:50] um uh certified inspectors and they have

[1:18:53] to have um reports done and who

[1:18:57] performed the um inspections. So we look

[1:19:02] at the building the structure portion of

[1:19:04] it electrical mechanical and the

[1:19:06] plumbing as well. So they have to

[1:19:09] provide the inspection reports and also

[1:19:13] the um the inspector's um um credentials

[1:19:18] have to be submitted as well so we can

[1:19:21] see who has done that. So that is

[1:19:24] actually listed in our IBC code

[1:19:27] international building code which we use

[1:19:30] that for commercial buildings. So uh we

[1:19:33] just follow that chapter to require

[1:19:36] those uh require the paperwork and th

[1:19:39] those have to be approved before even

[1:19:42] they can bring the modules into um city

[1:19:45] limits here uh where uh manufactured

[1:19:48] homes are um manufactured by HUD

[1:19:52] standards. So they bear HUD uh approval

[1:19:56] stamps or the um stickers. So they that

[1:20:01] is a verified process. So we accept them

[1:20:05] as long as they are truly

[1:20:08] manufactured homes built by hot

[1:20:10] standards.

[1:20:12] >> A manufactured home. Does it have wheels

[1:20:14] on it or do they bring it in pieces?

[1:20:17] >> Well, I'm let her

[1:20:20] getting into the sticky part. Go ahead.

[1:20:22] Usually they are single

[1:20:26] um units or what they call it single

[1:20:29] wide or double wide.

[1:20:31] >> Oh, so we're talking about mobile homes

[1:20:33] is really what we're talking about.

[1:20:34] >> Well, so yes,

[1:20:35] >> manufactured home,

[1:20:36] >> right?

[1:20:37] >> So since uh 1973

[1:20:41] or five

[1:20:43] uh those uh mobile homes were

[1:20:45] manufactured without any standards.

[1:20:48] >> Yeah. But yeah, so that is actually an

[1:20:51] older vocabulary.

[1:20:53] >> That's what I need to understand.

[1:20:54] Manufactur is a mobile home. That's what

[1:20:55] I didn't understand.

[1:20:56] >> Right. So we

[1:20:58] >> modular is just a function of they build

[1:21:00] it right before they brought it to us.

[1:21:02] Right.

[1:21:02] >> That's what modular really is.

[1:21:04] >> Is it all done right before it shows up?

[1:21:07] Because once it shows up, you're already

[1:21:09] committed.

[1:21:11] >> Yes.

[1:21:12] >> Right.

[1:21:13] >> That's why you need all those plans

[1:21:15] before it shows up.

[1:21:16] >> Yes.

[1:21:16] >> Okay. Yes, thank you very much.

[1:21:18] >> But we do not use the terminology mobile

[1:21:20] home anymore. We use manufactured home.

[1:21:24] [laughter]

[1:21:25] >> So

[1:21:26] >> you'll have to forgive me. I'm old.

[1:21:27] >> You're forgiven.

[1:21:28] >> It's anonymous.

[1:21:30] >> And like you say,

[1:21:36] » y

[1:21:39] on a footing of some kind or blocks or

[1:21:41] something.

[1:21:43] >> Yes. But manufactured the homes once you

[1:21:46] bring it here you have to remove wheels,

[1:21:49] axles, everything and you have to have a

[1:21:53] permanent foundation.

[1:21:56] >> I don't even want to go down that road.

[1:21:58] I I'll ask you if I want to know. It's a

[1:22:00] long conversation.

[1:22:00] >> Where do storage container homes fit in?

[1:22:03] >> George,

[1:22:04] >> you've had those questions too. Believe

[1:22:06] me,

[1:22:06] >> I know you have those.

[1:22:07] >> That's a former tiny home.

[1:22:09] >> Thank you. Sorry. Yeah, there'll be

[1:22:12] >> 10 of them welded stack

[1:22:14] >> together

[1:22:15] >> like a conx house.

[1:22:17] >> There's there's some out in

[1:22:19] >> Middberg area.

[1:22:20] >> So the use table that's what we've gone

[1:22:23] to to be able to be able to have clear

[1:22:25] and consistent allowed and permitted and prohibited uses in all these zoning

[1:22:32] designations.

[1:22:35] And then the development standards table

[1:22:37] um establishes those standards um for

[1:22:41] improvement of property and ensure

[1:22:43] quality development consistent with the

[1:22:44] comp plan. And each section has its own

[1:22:47] purpose and applicability statement.

[1:22:51] Enhanced parking and site design

[1:22:53] strategies. Um parking ratios again in

[1:22:56] the table. Updated parking standards.

[1:23:00] Um, so allowance for because right now

[1:23:02] our our parking space is 9 ft by uh 19.

[1:23:07] So we've added in some parking

[1:23:10] allowances for compact cars. So they you

[1:23:13] have more use of your parking area or

[1:23:15] your law area. Um I'm dealing with one

[1:23:18] right now commercial use where if you

[1:23:21] have a little bit of allowance for

[1:23:23] compact cars and then your regular

[1:23:26] parking standards well and your handicap

[1:23:29] your accessible spaces um you can kind

[1:23:33] of help development not be require so

[1:23:37] much parking. A lot of cities are moving

[1:23:39] now to not even having minimum parking

[1:23:43] standards. They're moving to no parking

[1:23:45] standards and letting the developers

[1:23:47] because they have the development

[1:23:50] letting the market decide letting them

[1:23:52] decide. I'll just give you an example

[1:23:54] that I'm dealing with right now. Dollar

[1:23:56] General and our parking standards are al

[1:23:59] all based on gross floor area which not

[1:24:02] customer service area gross floor area.

[1:24:05] So the Dollar General has to have 52

[1:24:07] parking spaces. They know they don't

[1:24:09] ever have more than 15 pa parking 15

[1:24:13] spaces used at any one time for their

[1:24:15] patrons.

[1:24:17] Our parking standards require them 52.

[1:24:20] They have like 34 on site and I'm trying

[1:24:22] to work with them and trying to find

[1:24:24] some outlet in the code and there just

[1:24:26] isn't any because it's all based on

[1:24:28] gross floor area. So, we're looking at

[1:24:30] more [snorts] customer service area

[1:24:31] which is pretty

[1:24:32] >> They also need a way to get a semi-truck

[1:24:34] in there safely.

[1:24:35] >> Yes, they do. They do. And they have

[1:24:36] >> 76 is not that.

[1:24:38] >> No. Well, they do on this one and and um

[1:24:42] but they also have area in there where

[1:24:45] they could add additional parking, but

[1:24:47] they are they don't want to add it. They

[1:24:50] know that they don't they know that they

[1:24:52] don't use that parking and so um it's

[1:24:56] you know more parking area can create

[1:24:59] you know the heat island effects. You're

[1:25:01] dealing with that storm water runoff you

[1:25:03] know so you have more requirement for

[1:25:05] storm water. So, um, really becoming a

[1:25:09] little bit more thoughtful about our

[1:25:11] parking regulation is is going to be

[1:25:14] better for Newcastle overall. Not saying

[1:25:16] we're going to no parking standards. I'm

[1:25:18] not saying that. We still have them. It

[1:25:19] just is cleaned it up so we're not

[1:25:21] overparking people.

[1:25:26] » Um,

[1:25:26] >> they need to make their store bigger and

[1:25:28] put some space in their aisle. Is there

[1:25:30] has there been any consideration for

[1:25:35] acquiring or

[1:25:37] suggesting bullards at in front of some

[1:25:39] of these commercial buildings?

[1:25:41] I sit here boomerang quite a bit and I

[1:25:44] see these massive trucks pulling right

[1:25:46] here by your face.

[1:25:48] >> Oh, and they just pull right over

[1:25:50] >> here. You hear stories all the time of

[1:25:54] somebody's foot slipping off and running

[1:25:55] right through

[1:25:57] the

[1:25:58] >> whatever it was. down in Mustang that

[1:26:00] almost shut down because the truck went

[1:26:02] through their building.

[1:26:04] >> You can look at that. I've seen a a lot

[1:26:06] of businesses

[1:26:08] not necessarily requiring it, but it's

[1:26:11] one of those things that businesses

[1:26:13] that people

[1:26:14] >> I wouldn't think a whole lot of money if

[1:26:15] you're just and some of it depends on

[1:26:18] what your business is. I get that. But a

[1:26:20] restaurant where people are sitting

[1:26:23] ton truck right here,

[1:26:24] >> it depends on the type of traffic you

[1:26:26] got, too. Right.

[1:26:27] >> Yeah.

[1:26:31] Um, [clears throat]

[1:26:33] so like I said, we've we've kind of uh

[1:26:36] tightened up and increased our uh

[1:26:38] landscaping requirements and take them

[1:26:40] out of uh different designations where

[1:26:42] they don't need to be.

[1:26:45] Um, and also um having a landscaping uh maintenance bond as well. So that way

[1:26:52] when people put in commercial, this

[1:26:54] commercial only, not residential,

[1:26:56] commercial only, where you have

[1:26:57] landscaping installed, that the business

[1:26:59] has to keep that landscaping thriving

[1:27:01] until it gets established and then that

[1:27:04] bond would get released.

[1:27:07] Um

[1:27:09] so overall architectural design

[1:27:11] standards for commercial and multif

[1:27:13] family which you all know that we

[1:27:15] increased our commercial um uh masonry

[1:27:19] requirement to 80% on all sides. So, and

[1:27:23] the increase with um building materials,

[1:27:26] facade design and transition between

[1:27:30] adjacent land uses, fencing, screening,

[1:27:33] lighting to improve compatibility with

[1:27:35] neighborhoods.

[1:27:37] And this is kind of our authority. This

[1:27:40] is the authority approval table. So, it

[1:27:42] gives everybody kind of a um anybody

[1:27:44] that wants to look and see, okay, if I'm

[1:27:46] going to get zoning uh ordinance

[1:27:49] amendment, what do I have to do? I have to have a planning

[1:27:53] commission um notice does it have to the

[1:27:56] director planning commission and then

[1:27:58] city council is the decision making

[1:28:00] authority. So just put all of our

[1:28:02] procedures into a chart

[1:28:06] and then signs.

[1:28:08] So, our sign code [cough]

[1:28:11] [clears throat]

[1:28:11] um

[1:28:13] is a little bit difficult to interpret

[1:28:16] with the frontages and then the the

[1:28:19] types of signs. So, we've gone to more

[1:28:23] modernized sign categories with just

[1:28:25] having attached, detached, incidential, incidental, you know, it's

[1:28:31] all say that word incidental and special

[1:28:34] and temporary signs. um clear

[1:28:38] measurement standards and content

[1:28:40] neutral rel regulations and modernizing

[1:28:44] our sign uh features with like

[1:28:47] electronic me message centers,

[1:28:49] illumination and changeable canopies.

[1:28:52] We're not allowing the digital rotating

[1:28:55] highintensity LED signs. They have to be

[1:28:58] static. They cannot they cannot be the

[1:29:01] rotating lights and the flashing. Um

[1:29:04] that is all They can have LED signs.

[1:29:06] >> They can have an LED sign.

[1:29:07] >> Brightness levels

[1:29:09] >> designated and spelled out in there.

[1:29:11] >> That's right.

[1:29:12] >> There is.

[1:29:13] >> Yes.

[1:29:16] >> Um giving a chart as well. So the

[1:29:18] updated sign standards and clear

[1:29:20] administration. Um clear permitting and

[1:29:24] um consistent approval procedures and

[1:29:27] updated maintenance and enforcement

[1:29:29] provisions. Um improved graph graphics

[1:29:32] and tables. So there's a lot of graph

[1:29:34] more graphics in the sign chapter as

[1:29:36] well. Um and dimensional standards.

[1:29:42] » Okay.

[1:29:42] >> So that that sign thing if I want to put a big sign on my in my

[1:29:47] farm and I'm next to the highway. Is

[1:29:49] that fit in any of those buckets?

[1:29:52] >> If you're you want a sign like

[1:29:54] >> we've had this happen a few times. We've

[1:29:55] had

[1:29:56] >> like for a billboard.

[1:29:57] >> Yeah. A big billboard.

[1:29:58] >> So billboards are all special use and

[1:30:00] they're staying special use. I've had

[1:30:03] >> and I'm fine with that. I just want to

[1:30:04] make sure that wasn't in any of the

[1:30:06] >> No, those are all special use and they

[1:30:08] are staying special use.

[1:30:09] >> Okay.

[1:30:09] >> And they're staying 750 ft apart

[1:30:11] >> and staying 750 ft apart.

[1:30:13] >> We won't have a

[1:30:14] >> You're not going to have a row of

[1:30:16] billboards.

[1:30:17] And I really just hope that we can just

[1:30:20] my personal opinion when I'm

[1:30:23] >> stay out of that business and go away.

[1:30:24] We'll see.

[1:30:26] >> Yep.

[1:30:28] But so overall the these three chapters

[1:30:32] have been updated. Um the plan is to

[1:30:36] bring these forward for your

[1:30:38] recommendation at the end of August, the

[1:30:41] August 31st meeting. Um and then from

[1:30:45] there, Reza Nichols will be here on the

[1:30:48] 31st of August to do a presentation. Um

[1:30:51] my hope in between now and then and this

[1:30:54] evening um is to answer questions, take

[1:30:58] input and feedback and um update

[1:31:01] anything that we need to update um

[1:31:06] for these three chapters and to move get

[1:31:09] this process of adoption started. We did

[1:31:13] talk with them about that some because

[1:31:15] there we will notice for the um uh

[1:31:20] repeal and replace of these three

[1:31:22] chapters and their totality. It'll be

[1:31:25] noticed for the August meeting um

[1:31:32] timing wise for these chapters and I'm

[1:31:35] open to just you know obviously how we

[1:31:38] implement that. Had a couple suggestions

[1:31:40] from them. Um, our idea was to uh have a

[1:31:46] set date where these chapters would take

[1:31:48] effect. So, January 1st, 27 is what the

[1:31:52] city manager what we he and I discussed.

[1:31:54] And that's a good timeline because it

[1:31:57] gives anything that's in the process

[1:31:59] right now to be allowed to stay under

[1:32:03] the current code and won't create any

[1:32:05] conflicts. It also gives staff um and

[1:32:09] general public and all of us time to

[1:32:11] learn the code. And yes, we've gone

[1:32:14] through it and we've written it, but do

[1:32:15] I have it memorized? No. Do I know every

[1:32:17] single thing in there? No. You know, do

[1:32:20] I am I familiar with most of the

[1:32:22] changes, but when you start

[1:32:24] administering code, as you know, I mean,

[1:32:26] I can still look at the code we have now

[1:32:28] and I'll find new things in it, you

[1:32:30] know, and go, "Oh,

[1:32:32] that that's there. That's new." But it's

[1:32:34] not. it's been there. You know, you you

[1:32:38] takes time to to get through and the

[1:32:40] adoption. So, having this take effect,

[1:32:43] the January 1st, 2027

[1:32:46] date was something we talked about. And

[1:32:48] then, um the freezing nickels team

[1:32:50] suggested something interesting to me as

[1:32:52] well is to said, you know, you can also

[1:32:54] have duel if you can give people a an

[1:32:59] option. And I don't know about that how

[1:33:01] that I I don't know how that would work.

[1:33:05] Meaning if somebody would they say we

[1:33:08] adopted it, you know, but we are going

[1:33:09] to maintain our current code until July,

[1:33:13] sorry, January 127, but this could

[1:33:16] potentially take effect immediately as

[1:33:19] well. Somebody comes in and they they've

[1:33:22] been wanting to do a multi-generational

[1:33:24] house, but they're going to have to

[1:33:25] wait. We've had people, in fact, we have

[1:33:26] somebody waiting now until after January

[1:33:29] because of the secondary accessory

[1:33:31] structure thing right now

[1:33:35] that change because of the placement in

[1:33:38] their yard and where it can be in

[1:33:40] regards to the to the um main dwelling.

[1:33:44] So, it was an option to to have that

[1:33:46] kind of dual

[1:33:47] >> where you could be under the current

[1:33:50] >> that it would overlap.

[1:33:53] Seems like craziness for you.

[1:33:55] >> It would be

[1:33:55] >> a little bit

[1:33:57] >> I would think you could allow people to

[1:33:58] select

[1:34:00] >> sure

[1:34:00] >> whether to build under the new proposed

[1:34:02] code or not,

[1:34:03] >> couldn't you?

[1:34:04] >> Yeah. Very citizen friendly, very staff

[1:34:07] intensive.

[1:34:08] >> Yeah,

[1:34:08] >> absolutely.

[1:34:10] >> Not sure for a short period of time.

[1:34:12] >> For a short period of time. Main idea.

[1:34:14] >> Of course, you learn all those.

[1:34:15] >> That's the thing. it it it to get us to

[1:34:18] give us a time to really get into the

[1:34:20] weeds with with um administering it.

[1:34:24] Yeah.

[1:34:28] » So, this evening was just

[1:34:29] >> it would be it would be hard, but

[1:34:32] >> it would be hard. I I'm not sure. Those

[1:34:34] are just kind of things I wanted to

[1:34:35] fully to kind of disclose what we've

[1:34:37] talked about as far as through the

[1:34:38] adoption process, you know, and when

[1:34:41] this would take effect because that's

[1:34:42] always a big question of when does this

[1:34:44] go into effect and how is that going to

[1:34:47] >> having tried to read the

[1:34:50] 400 and some pages here. U I'm not sure

[1:34:54] August is a very good choice, but we'll

[1:34:56] see. But when do you want to go through

[1:34:58] the one by one?

[1:35:00] >> One by one. So

[1:35:03] it so

[1:35:06] >> O2 chapter C1

[1:35:08] >> yes

[1:35:09] >> why not have the adopted code control

[1:35:11] rather than the most restrictive

[1:35:14] >> say that again.

[1:35:15] >> Now if we go to 154

[1:35:20] get it open.

[1:35:32] 54

[1:35:34] 111

[1:35:36] >> O2

[1:35:41] » and

[1:35:43] C1 generally this is under relationships

[1:35:47] of of other to other state federal and

[1:35:50] legal provisions. Generally, if this

[1:35:52] zoning ordinance imposes a greater

[1:35:55] restriction upon the use of buildings or

[1:35:58] premises or building height or requires

[1:36:00] larger open spaces than are required by

[1:36:03] other ordinances, rules, regulations,

[1:36:05] easements, covenants, or agreements,

[1:36:07] more restrictive provision shall govern.

[1:36:10] Why don't we use the restriction that

[1:36:12] we've thought about and adopt

[1:36:15] than something we didn't was out there?

[1:36:19] I'm going to let our city attorney speak

[1:36:21] to some of these with the conflict of

[1:36:23] state or federal regulations.

[1:36:26] >> It says state and federal. Is that what

[1:36:27] it says? this state and federal or lo

[1:36:29] and local provisions

[1:36:31] >> conflict with state or federal.

[1:36:32] >> If we've got something over in

[1:36:44] noise requirements or well not going to

[1:36:46] be noise because I didn't find any noise

[1:36:48] reference in this at all.

[1:36:49] >> That's in our that's in the nuisance.

[1:36:51] It's in a different chapter. It's not in

[1:36:54] this. I think is what you're talking

[1:36:55] about is if we have You're saying if we

[1:36:58] have something more restrictive than

[1:37:00] some state or federal regulations?

[1:37:03] >> No, I'm saying that well, it reads that

[1:37:06] if there's some place else that we

[1:37:08] didn't think of and we adopted this,

[1:37:11] it's more restrictive. That's the one

[1:37:12] that's going to control. Well, here

[1:37:15] we've thought about what we want in R1

[1:37:19] or RR

[1:37:21] and we've adopted something and we think

[1:37:23] that's good.

[1:37:26] >> There's somewhere else in our city

[1:37:28] ordinances that says another number

[1:37:31] because it was adopted before or

[1:37:34] >> they didn't think about it.

[1:37:36] >> If we've thought about it and we adopt

[1:37:38] it, why don't we let that control

[1:37:39] instead of whatever is more restrictive

[1:37:42] most restrictive?

[1:37:43] >> Are we trying to figure out the way to

[1:37:45] take the most

[1:37:46] >> interest of the citizens away?

[1:37:48] >> No, I think No, we're not. But I think

[1:37:50] that any any any regulation in our

[1:37:53] zoning code subdivision sign, it's

[1:37:55] always the most restrictive applies.

[1:37:57] It's always

[1:37:58] >> It generally is. No wonder why. A lot of

[1:38:00] times always raises a hackle in my

[1:38:03] >> most recently adopted. Well,

[1:38:05] >> most restrictive is what it says and

[1:38:07] most and generally they that's what you

[1:38:09] find in the statutes and all that. When

[1:38:11] they don't know what they're doing,

[1:38:13] >> they say if there's somewhere else it's

[1:38:15] more restrictive, let's use that one.

[1:38:18] Well, we're thinking about this now. If

[1:38:20] we want it more restrictive, we ought to

[1:38:21] use it

[1:38:22] >> because the one we don't find is what

[1:38:24] it's going to be. That's all that's

[1:38:25] covered. I see your point.

[1:38:27] >> Yeah. Well, I'm just saying

[1:38:28] >> if

[1:38:28] >> you took out the local and just said

[1:38:30] state and federal, then that would cover

[1:38:32] that, wouldn't it?

[1:38:32] >> Well, yeah, because I mean, you're going

[1:38:34] to get stuck with state and federal.

[1:38:38] >> But do you need do you need the coverage

[1:38:39] for that other or not?

[1:38:41] >> I think there's more standard. This is a

[1:38:44] standard statement for basically all

[1:38:47] zoning regulation. It's

[1:38:51] safety safety. Yeah.

[1:38:55] because it has the conflict with other

[1:38:56] city regulations with plat anything with

[1:38:59] building code requirements that you know

[1:39:02] you're going to have other sections of

[1:39:04] >> that's a good example

[1:39:05] >> we we adopt the current build national

[1:39:07] building code

[1:39:09] >> and it can have sideyard setbacks or or

[1:39:14] distance between buildings that are

[1:39:15] inconsistent with our

[1:39:18] >> our sideyard setbacks and so it would

[1:39:21] control

[1:39:23] The most restrictive wood control and

[1:39:26] that post what's building separation.

[1:39:29] It's a three-foot separation

[1:39:31] in the for single family between

[1:39:34] structures on each side. Ours is a five

[1:39:37] foot setback.

[1:39:39] Is that right? According to the IBC or

[1:39:42] to the IRC

[1:39:46] » back.

[1:39:46] >> Uhhuh.

[1:39:51] So it's five feet in the

[1:39:53] >> property lines between

[1:39:55] >> not between the structures

[1:39:58] >> between property lines or between

[1:40:00] structures

[1:40:01] >> between the property lines

[1:40:02] >> from the structure

[1:40:04] >> to the property line

[1:40:05] >> is five foot fire requires 10 feet

[1:40:08] between the buildings.

[1:40:09] >> That's why you have five feet on each

[1:40:11] side.

[1:40:12] >> Right?

[1:40:14] So,

[1:40:14] >> so that's where some of these examples

[1:40:16] of what I'm saying.

[1:40:18] Those fire codes are are not local

[1:40:20] standards. Those are state or federal

[1:40:22] standards. Correct.

[1:40:24] >> No, it's a national building code that

[1:40:25] we adopt.

[1:40:26] >> It's federal.

[1:40:28] >> Or is that not federal?

[1:40:29] >> I don't know. Is it federal or is it

[1:40:32] what we adopt?

[1:40:34] >> International Building Code,

[1:40:35] >> right?

[1:40:37] >> That's what I thought.

[1:40:39] >> They're national.

[1:40:40] >> Yeah.

[1:40:40] they're national. Same thing with

[1:40:42] fire. Same thing.

[1:40:43] >> Now, we got another deal in here that

[1:40:45] says it's we're going to depend upon the

[1:40:46] international

[1:40:48] code

[1:40:49] >> because the

[1:40:49] >> I'm not too gung-ho about

[1:40:52] >> the IRC the the that's the international

[1:40:56] and then IBC is underneath the IRC.

[1:40:59] Isn't that correct?

[1:41:01] >> I

[1:41:12] off of

[1:41:16] » they're all subgroups.

[1:41:20] » And your electrical mechanical,

[1:41:23] >> which

[1:41:25] we just we updated those. We're going to

[1:41:27] have to update those again. But we just

[1:41:30] updated the 2000. We adopted the 2018

[1:41:33] what the year before last.

[1:41:36] >> Y.

[1:41:37] So

[1:41:40] >> anyway, the

[1:41:43] provision of C1 under 5402

[1:41:47] just kind of demonstrates an attitude of

[1:41:49] let's be the most restrictive we can be.

[1:41:52] I don't much like that, but

[1:41:54] it is the standard way it's done. I

[1:41:57] don't know that it needs to be, but is

[1:42:00] it safer?

[1:42:01] >> Well, it's easier to to loosen up a

[1:42:04] restriction than it is to

[1:42:07] make something more stringent once

[1:42:09] somebody's already come in.

[1:42:10] >> Yeah.

[1:42:10] >> Accepted something looser.

[1:42:12] >> Yeah.

[1:42:17] » Gives the governing body a little more

[1:42:18] latitude.

[1:42:21] >> So Jana, we had a discussion earlier

[1:42:23] about how to compare our previous code

[1:42:26] to the current code.

[1:42:28] >> Yes.

[1:42:28] >> Who's the best GPT

[1:42:30] chat guy in the whole office in the

[1:42:32] city? You guys picked that guy out,

[1:42:35] girl. because I don't know how else to

[1:42:38] go through all this. Can you get GBT to

[1:42:41] lay those two documents and and spit out

[1:42:43] a document showed you the differences?

[1:42:45] >> I'm sure that that could probably be

[1:42:47] something that we could

[1:42:48] >> and you don't I mean you can put big

[1:42:50] disclaimer on it says this is wasn't me.

[1:42:52] Yeah. Wasn't me. But I'm just telling

[1:42:54] you as many pages you're talking about

[1:42:56] >> because I really want to know what the

[1:42:58] difference is going to be, right?

[1:42:59] Because that's what we're really going

[1:43:00] to be chasing.

[1:43:01] >> Yeah.

[1:43:02] >> Things that are the same we really don't

[1:43:03] care about because we're okay with it.

[1:43:05] Let it be.

[1:43:06] >> Anyway, I don't know that it work, but

[1:43:08] >> if you [clears throat] can get me the

[1:43:09] old version like in a PDF, I can wear a

[1:43:12] word PDF. Either way, I can put it in

[1:43:14] our our my company pays for the

[1:43:17] co-pilot.

[1:43:18] >> Fancy one.

[1:43:19] >> The fancy co-pilot. I can plop them both

[1:43:21] in and do that.

[1:43:22] >> You can. Okay. Well, I was just

[1:43:24] >> just Yeah,

[1:43:25] >> that' be really good

[1:43:26] >> because the whole chapters are online. I

[1:43:29] mean, you go and

[1:43:31] download it.

[1:43:32] >> Oh, yeah.

[1:43:33] >> You could just copy and paste it. you

[1:43:35] copy and paste it and download each one

[1:43:37] of those chapters and then I guess you

[1:43:40] could take this PDF and then you could

[1:43:44] take and you could compare it would pull

[1:43:46] out the differences. So, I popped in the new one just asked it to do like,

[1:43:51] you know, I'm on the planning and zoning

[1:43:52] committee.

[1:43:53] >> What comments do you have regarding this

[1:43:55] document as it looks to replace our

[1:43:56] current? Do you see any ambiguities,

[1:43:58] conflicts, or items of concern that I

[1:43:59] should bring up prior to being

[1:44:00] implemented?

[1:44:02] >> And it's got a list here.

[1:44:04] >> Okay.

[1:44:05] >> So, I'll do I'll add in that one, the

[1:44:07] old one, and ask it to see what the

[1:44:10] differences are.

[1:44:13] >> I mean, anything help, right?

[1:44:15] >> Yeah. Yeah,

[1:44:17] >> sir.

[1:44:21] » Yeah, but but they're so different.

[1:44:24] >> They're quite different. It's not easy

[1:44:27] to lay

[1:44:28] >> compare

[1:44:28] >> a pie on top of a cake and say,

[1:44:30] >> "Well, you just want

[1:44:32] >> these just they fit real easy." They

[1:44:34] don't fit real easy. They're not exactly

[1:44:36] the same.

[1:44:38] >> Because I want to see it.

[1:44:42] » That's all it is.

[1:44:44] >> I want to see it.

[1:44:46] So, two options. We could either

[1:44:48] >> I just do this whole section.

[1:44:49] >> You could we could do this if you want a

[1:44:52] comparison chart. We could come back and

[1:44:54] I'd like to

[1:44:56] >> Okay. Either

[1:44:58] >> I'm not asking y'all to do a lot of

[1:44:59] work. I'm just saying if that tool's out

[1:45:02] there, we might as well take a stab at

[1:45:04] it and see what it throws at us.

[1:45:05] >> Commissioner Nick wants to do that. That

[1:45:08] would be awesome. And I mean, but we

[1:45:10] would probably in the next

[1:45:12] >> and y'all ought to look at it and see if

[1:45:14] you see And if it looks crazy, you know,

[1:45:17] >> so potentially we could I mean use our

[1:45:21] time this evening. We can also um if you

[1:45:24] wanted to prior to the next

[1:45:28] planning commission prior to the August

[1:45:30] 31st date somewhere I don't know in a

[1:45:34] couple weeks have either a special

[1:45:36] meeting where we go through and prepare

[1:45:39] something where we can look at the

[1:45:40] differences and highlight that um and go

[1:45:44] over individual questions or changes

[1:45:47] um or we can have I can only meet

[1:45:51] up to two commissioners at one time if

[1:45:54] we wanted to do that and not have a

[1:45:56] special meeting. If we wanted to would

[1:45:59] volunteer to meet with me and staff um

[1:46:03] or have a special meeting to review that

[1:46:06] or however you guys think it'd be best

[1:46:09] to do do that.

[1:46:12] >> I'm fine either way.

[1:46:14] >> I don't necessarily have to be involved.

[1:46:16] I just I just want to see the changes

[1:46:18] that way I can kind of look through it

[1:46:19] before

[1:46:21] have a final opinion.

[1:46:22] >> Then we could send those we we could if

[1:46:24] we make that we could then make a I know

[1:46:27] somebody who would be perfect to do that

[1:46:29] job.

[1:46:32] Um that we would be able to uh

[1:46:37] prepare that and bring that back you

[1:46:39] before the next meeting or like I said I

[1:46:42] can have as long as I'm not meeting with

[1:46:44] more than two I'm happy to do that. It's up to you guys. We can do that two

[1:46:51] weeks prior to that planning commission

[1:46:53] meeting 31st.

[1:47:00] » Well, that's interesting. I mean, we

[1:47:02] have brought this up before. This isn't

[1:47:04] the first time we mentioned this.

[1:47:06] >> I mean, that's that's what the guy that

[1:47:09] did the river's edge, river view,

[1:47:11] whatever, when he rewrote all the code,

[1:47:14] marked out everything, showed this is

[1:47:15] what I'm modifying.

[1:47:17] >> Yeah. Red line strikeout. It happens.

[1:47:19] >> Surprising to me that they didn't

[1:47:20] deliver a document that way.

[1:47:23] >> I don't know.

[1:47:24] >> But this is just a cheat, right? That

[1:47:26] this is a way to try to get most of the

[1:47:28] information

[1:47:29] >> side by side. And that GPT chat does

[1:47:31] some pretty good stuff.

[1:47:33] >> It's not all right. Don't get me wrong.

[1:47:35] >> That's correct. It's thinking.

[1:47:38] >> I bet it is.

[1:47:42] » If Nick can do that, give it to us. We

[1:47:44] can look at that as well as

[1:47:47] >> start with that and then all your notes

[1:47:49] and we can go through our own and then

[1:47:50] whoever wants to meet with her a couple

[1:47:53] weeks or if you all want to do it all

[1:47:54] together we can do that. Whichever way

[1:47:55] you want to do it be fine with me.

[1:47:58] >> We can do a special meeting pretty easy.

[1:48:00] Um,

[1:48:01] I I mean

[1:48:04] I haven't got through all of all of the

[1:48:07] both 153 and 154, but I've got

[1:48:13] paragraph to paragraph notes.

[1:48:15] >> I know

[1:48:16] >> that

[1:48:18] we can go over some of them worthwhile

[1:48:20] like the egg deal and there's a couple

[1:48:24] some tables that lines out of or it's

[1:48:27] repeated

[1:48:29] >> but And some of them are comments like

[1:48:31] that last one of mine. I don't really

[1:48:33] like being the most respect restrictive

[1:48:36] body on the world. U

[1:48:41] and at some point

[1:48:49] N's going to have to

[1:48:53] listen to me tell her about them because

[1:48:54] she can't read my writing.

[1:48:56] >> Yeah, I understand.

[1:48:58] I can, you know, if you want, I don't

[1:49:00] know, um,

[1:49:04] Nick would, if you want to be involved

[1:49:06] with part of that or come in and we

[1:49:08] could just meet

[1:49:10] >> Yeah.

[1:49:10] >> and not have a special meeting and we

[1:49:12] could you could get the

[1:49:14] >> give it all to us.

[1:49:15] >> We all look at it and then

[1:49:18] >> you all finish your little dialogue and

[1:49:19] you have some comments you want to send

[1:49:21] out. Then that way we'll have that to

[1:49:23] look at along with whatever we got. Then

[1:49:24] when we sit down in August, we can try

[1:49:27] to go through it.

[1:49:29] >> So what what program is it that you

[1:49:31] >> It's Microsoft.

[1:49:33] >> Co-pilot co-pilot. Okay.

[1:49:35] >> There's a plethora of them.

[1:49:36] >> I don't have that.

[1:49:37] >> It's Microsoft.

[1:49:38] >> It uses chat GPT

[1:49:39] >> to do that. I need to get that

[1:49:42] >> a separate license from Microsoft.

[1:49:43] >> Right. It uses chat, but it also uses

[1:49:46] some of the other like I can have it

[1:49:49] switch to the different ones.

[1:49:51] >> Oh, really?

[1:49:52] I have to ask thought about that.

[1:49:55] Microsoft autopilot.

[1:50:01] » Oh, okay.

[1:50:05] » Well, unless it sounds like it's doing a

[1:50:07] little bit more. I mean, I know. Well,

[1:50:09] it's not. I don't know. I tried to put

[1:50:11] something in today because I've been

[1:50:12] looking at a development uh code

[1:50:15] handbook and I said, "Chat GBT, write me

[1:50:18] a development code handbook based on

[1:50:21] Newcastle subdivision zoning and sign

[1:50:24] code. Write me, you know, and gave me a

[1:50:28] detailed. Well, this is how you do it.

[1:50:30] And I said, well, no, I want you to

[1:50:31] write it. No, that's too much. We can't

[1:50:33] write [laughter] it for you.

[1:50:37] >> I was like, well, you're a lot of help

[1:50:39] there. It gave me a full outline. It

[1:50:42] said, um,

[1:50:43] >> you need

[1:50:45] see Norman, Edmund, and Oklahoma City

[1:50:47] have development.

[1:50:48] >> Oh, there you go. There you [laughter]

[1:50:49] go.

[1:50:50] >> Be probably some assistance to you. And

[1:50:53] I was like, "Oh, I need my code in

[1:50:56] there, not theirs."

[1:50:58] Anyway, but yes, it can do some

[1:51:00] incredible things. And you know, if you

[1:51:02] wanted,

[1:51:03] >> but it's not all perfect. I want

[1:51:05] everybody to understand that that stuff

[1:51:06] is not all perfect, right?

[1:51:08] >> It's close.

[1:51:09] >> Um, I could meet sometime next week or

[1:51:13] the week after.

[1:51:15] >> Week after be better for me.

[1:51:16] >> Okay.

[1:51:17] >> I've got to make up for all the things I

[1:51:19] didn't do this week.

[1:51:21] Um,

[1:51:22] >> because of this,

[1:51:22] >> do you want me to set something up? Uh,

[1:51:25] do you guys want to give

[1:51:27] >> will it be you and Nick or

[1:51:29] >> do you want would that be good?

[1:51:31] >> Well, do you want in on that or do you

[1:51:32] want you got

[1:51:34] >> on YouTube and do it? I mean,

[1:51:35] >> okay, we'll do it

[1:51:37] >> with that.

[1:51:39] >> You'll send me

[1:51:40] >> if you look through that and it looks

[1:51:42] deeper than you think and you want us

[1:51:43] all, we can do a special meeting, too.

[1:51:46] You fine with that, Will?

[1:51:47] >> Yeah. Whatever y'all come out with, if

[1:51:49] you think you want us all, great. If you

[1:51:50] don't, you don't. It's fine.

[1:51:52] >> I want to I want to take time to see if

[1:51:54] it like the first things it's spitting

[1:51:56] out are very high level like the things

[1:51:58] that Oh, yeah.

[1:51:59] >> you've talked about where

[1:52:01] >> it's Yeah, there's major structural

[1:52:02] changes. Yeah, we know that.

[1:52:05] >> Well, may maybe it won't be as good as

[1:52:06] you think,

[1:52:07] >> right? So, I just want to There's ways

[1:52:09] to the prompts that go into it help to

[1:52:13] curtail its response. And so I'm trying

[1:52:15] to

[1:52:16] >> pull out the information that you know

[1:52:18] the the specific changes that

[1:52:21] >> the verbiage

[1:52:22] >> the verbage right

[1:52:23] >> so it doesn't say you have to do it

[1:52:24] yourself

[1:52:26] >> right that's what I'm [laughter] working

[1:52:29] >> I was like oh darn

[1:52:30] >> and if that's what it ends up being

[1:52:32] we're probably going to need a special

[1:52:33] meeting you can't get anything out of it

[1:52:37] >> um

[1:52:39] >> one of those

[1:52:40] >> I can get some and I can I mean I can

[1:52:42] send the document to It's It's not going

[1:52:45] to be necessarily I can make it a to a

[1:52:47] word document probably that

[1:52:49] >> or PDF from there.

[1:52:51] >> PDF. Yeah.

[1:52:52] >> Yeah. But I I can send it. Do I send it

[1:52:54] to you first, Jana or you, Gordon, or

[1:52:56] everybody? I can't send it to everybody,

[1:52:58] right?

[1:52:58] >> No, you can't send it. I can send We can

[1:53:00] send it.

[1:53:00] >> Oh, you can send it to

[1:53:01] >> Yeah, you can send it to everybody.

[1:53:03] >> Call me up and talk about it.

[1:53:05] >> Can't have a group phone conversation.

[1:53:07] >> You can send us anything. Don't reply

[1:53:09] all to the

[1:53:09] >> Don't reply all. It's the

[1:53:11] >> Yeah, don't reply all. I'll send it to

[1:53:14] everybody here and then

[1:53:17] uh whenever I get something substantial

[1:53:19] anyways.

[1:53:19] >> Yeah.

[1:53:20] >> And then

[1:53:21] >> we can we can work from there.

[1:53:23] >> So, will you do are you wanting to do

[1:53:25] each chapter or are you going to do

[1:53:28] >> start

[1:53:29] see how it goes?

[1:53:30] >> See how it goes

[1:53:30] >> and then let me know.

[1:53:32] >> I can do the other ones too just the

[1:53:33] same.

[1:53:34] >> Okay. That'd be great. Okay.

[1:53:37] >> Right. That an email is not a

[1:53:42] fully distributed email or a

[1:53:44] multi-istributed email.

[1:53:45] >> The most conservative thing to do would

[1:53:47] be have him send it to Jana and have her

[1:53:49] handle the distribution.

[1:53:52] >> When it goes out to every member, then

[1:53:54] there is an argument. That's a

[1:53:56] communication to everybody.

[1:53:57] >> Yeah.

[1:53:58] >> And particularly if somebody hits reply

[1:53:59] all, then it is a meeting.

[1:54:01] >> Yeah.

[1:54:01] >> We don't want to do that.

[1:54:02] >> That's what I thought. Mr.

[1:54:04] >> Maybe send it to me first and then I can

[1:54:06] distribute it.

[1:54:06] >> So just to avoid an accidental reply

[1:54:09] all, I just send it to Jana first. I

[1:54:12] could and I can even now I sent it to

[1:54:14] everybody. I obviously I sent it to

[1:54:17] everybody and I didn't think about that.

[1:54:19] Somebody replying all would make it

[1:54:21] automatically via

[1:54:22] >> just do blind copy and then nobody knows

[1:54:25] who you sent it to. No, I'm serious.

[1:54:27] >> Oh, is that legal?

[1:54:28] >> Can't be a reply all that way.

[1:54:30] >> You can't do a reply all. It's not it's

[1:54:31] not being subversive hiding anything.

[1:54:34] I'm just saying we can't if we reply

[1:54:35] all, it doesn't matter. It only goes

[1:54:37] back to you.

[1:54:37] >> Well, we send our agendas out like that

[1:54:39] and our packets out like that. It just

[1:54:41] usually people don't reply at all. I

[1:54:44] mean, do you think I should be able

[1:54:45] maybe I should send it out individually

[1:54:48] to be most conservative?

[1:54:49] >> I think that idea is okay.

[1:54:50] >> It's okay to blind copy.

[1:54:52] >> I've read a deal on that.

[1:54:53] >> It just goes back to the sender.

[1:54:55] >> It's one to one at that point and

[1:54:57] there's no problem.

[1:54:58] >> Okay.

[1:55:00] >> So, I still send it to Jana or I blank

[1:55:02] copy everybody.

[1:55:04] >> Just send it to Jana.

[1:55:05] >> I would start with her and let her

[1:55:06] disseminate it and then

[1:55:07] >> and then Yeah. And then is what I'll do

[1:55:10] is I will um

[1:55:13] I can send you an email tomorrow with

[1:55:15] dates and times for uh be the second week in in August. Do you guys

[1:55:23] have any days or times that are better

[1:55:26] for you guys than others? I mean

[1:55:30] >> I'm probably good till school starts,

[1:55:31] but

[1:55:32] >> if I'm just meeting with these two or

[1:55:35] and then or we can decide on a special I

[1:55:37] mean if If we're doing a special

[1:55:39] meeting, I'd like to be able to do it

[1:55:41] like that second week in August or the

[1:55:43] it goes we get too close to planning

[1:55:46] commission if we're going to do if we

[1:55:49] want to meet just with you two and you

[1:55:52] guys take and

[1:55:53] >> we don't know that answer yet, right?

[1:55:55] >> We could do that too and we say let's

[1:55:57] set up the meeting and then for for a

[1:55:59] special meeting it just has to be posted

[1:56:02] 48 hours in advance.

[1:56:03] >> So we could still get a special meeting

[1:56:06] one. Yeah.

[1:56:08] the

[1:56:10] six we've got a board of adjustment but

[1:56:12] that's in the evening not during the

[1:56:13] >> I'm looking at the following week and

[1:56:16] you guys are available like after late

[1:56:19] afternoon or

[1:56:21] >> week of the 10th

[1:56:22] >> I'm available

[1:56:24] uh anytime I might be out of town Monday

[1:56:27] actually so it would be

[1:56:30] >> yeah council's on the 10th

[1:56:32] >> I can do Tuesday

[1:56:35] really anytime Tuesday.

[1:56:37] >> Okay. The 11th.

[1:56:39] >> I can do the 11th. The 12th and 13th. I

[1:56:42] got to go south.

[1:56:45] >> Okay. And the following week you'll be

[1:56:47] in.

[1:56:48] >> No. Yeah. I'm just going to be gone. As

[1:56:49] far as I know, I'll only be gone the

[1:56:51] 12th and 13th.

[1:56:52] >> Okay.

[1:56:53] >> Then Gordon.

[1:56:56] >> I can play retired. That's it.

[1:56:58] >> Okay. So,

[1:56:59] >> so on the 11th would be good.

[1:57:03] Okay. So I'll send and you would be it's

[1:57:07] afternoon or

[1:57:09] >> morning works better. I have it two

[1:57:11] o'clock but I can

[1:57:12] >> I can do morning like you want to do

[1:57:14] like the 9 or 10 a.m.

[1:57:16] >> as early as as early as 8 works for me

[1:57:18] >> as 8. Okay.

[1:57:21] >> Okay. So that's what that's not

[1:57:23] >> this is just this is not a special

[1:57:24] meeting. This just BS. So, on Tuesday,

[1:57:28] uh, August 11th,

[1:57:32] is 8:30 or 9 good with you, Gordon?

[1:57:35] >> 8:30. 8 8

[1:57:38] >> We can do eight. We do 8:00. So, I can

[1:57:40] send an invite to you, too, for August

[1:57:43] 11th at 8:00.

[1:57:46] And then when we go through that, this

[1:57:47] way I'll have time to get that from you

[1:57:50] and then

[1:57:52] we'll have time to send it out. we can

[1:57:55] meet and then we can see what it's

[1:57:57] telling what

[1:58:01] » if we need to go for a special meeting

[1:58:03] or if we can work out any type of

[1:58:05] revisions that we would want to do right

[1:58:08] there.

[1:58:08] >> Yeah.

[1:58:09] >> Because what I'll do is I we'll make the

[1:58:11] revisions in house of what we want and

[1:58:14] then I'll send update our consultants

[1:58:16] that hey we're making these changes you

[1:58:18] know before we take them forward.

[1:58:22] >> Is that do that at city hall? So, we'll

[1:58:24] do that at my Yeah, my office, city

[1:58:26] hall.

[1:58:30] » I'll send an invite Tuesday.

[1:58:33] >> I think if y'all figure you decide you

[1:58:35] want more, then we'll me and Will make

[1:58:38] it whatever we need to do.

[1:58:40] >> Yeah. Then we could

[1:58:40] >> Well, we can call around and find that

[1:58:42] out.

[1:58:42] >> Yeah. Yeah. Whatever y'all need. Got it.

[1:58:45] Fine. I should be able to get something

[1:58:47] out to you, Jana, tomorrow with I should

[1:58:52] have some time to put something together

[1:58:54] and you can distribute it out from

[1:58:55] there.

[1:58:56] >> Okay.

[1:58:57] >> We can do your special meeting the 18th.

[1:59:00] >> The 18th

[1:59:02] >> if you need two weeks before your

[1:59:05] regular meeting.

[1:59:05] >> Yeah, that would be

[1:59:07] >> just write it down whether we put it out

[1:59:09] in public or not.

[1:59:12] >> We would have to that would just mean

[1:59:14] that's putting out that Um,

[1:59:17] >> Jen just post it that Friday before.

[1:59:20] Yeah,

[1:59:39] » just took care of your next item.

[1:59:43] » Well, you've taken care of that.

[1:59:55] discussion possible action on setting

[1:59:57] date for next special meeting. We've

[1:59:59] done that.

[2:00:01] New business really done that because

[2:00:03] we've set an agreement and possible

[2:00:06] special meeting. Old business

[2:00:10] uh adjournment.

[2:00:13] >> Make a motion to journ.

[2:00:15] favor.

[2:00:17] >> Will you second?

[2:00:18] >> I'll second. That's fine.

[2:00:21] >> Thank you all. I appreciate it.

Planning Commission Regular Meeting - Monday, July 27, 2026

Transcript