[0:20] Good evening. Welcome to the Tuesday August 18th, 2020 Board. Okay, let's have a council meeting, and I'll call it's order.

[0:33] If council would choose, we'll do the education and the pledge, and at the end of the pledge, I am going to ask that you remain standing.

[0:39] Okay, thank you, Mayor.

[0:43] Please bow your heads, gracious and loving God, we come before you with grateful hearts.

[0:49] Thank you for this beautiful community, your place and our care.

[0:53] Feel this chamber with your presence tonight and let every decision made here be rooted in genuine love.

[0:59] Love for our neighbors and the sake of responsibility of serving them.

[1:02] Grant our mayor counsel and staff the wisdom to lead with humility,

[1:06] and the compassion to always put the residents of Oak Island first.

[1:10] May your peace govern our words and your love be the foundation of all we do in your holy name we pray.

[1:19] I'd play to the agency to the black organization,

[1:23] and to the organization's organization,

[1:25] and to the organization, and to the organization,

[1:27] the organization, and the organization.

[1:29] To the university, and justice and so on.

[1:33] Please be John and the reason I ask you to make standing

[1:35] in the right way through the moment of silence

[1:37] when we issue a felt, at least we pass away

[1:39] more time employing and 8 years of council.

[1:57] At this time I'm going to ask Council Member

[2:04] This

[2:07] is a resolution in memoriam, remembering the late Sheila Bell, whereas the town council

[2:12] in citizens of town, the town of Oak Island are greatly saddened by the death of Sheila

[2:17] Bell, former council member and longtime town employee on Friday, August 7th, 2026, whereas

[2:25] Sheila Bell served our community for eight years as town council member elected in 2015 and

[2:30] 2019 and where as Sheila Bell also worked in local government for 25 years.

[2:35] Most of it here right in Oak Island, serving in several positions, including the challenging role

[2:40] of the text collector in her own hometown. And whereas during her time of town council,

[2:45] members Sheila Bell helped navigate the town through many storms,

[2:48] some which were caused by weather, and whereas throughout the her time in Oak Island,

[2:53] Sheila saw much change. She takes with her a wealth of knowledge and

[3:03] town history.

[3:05] Where as she earned the respect, admiration in the high regard of all who have the pleasure of working with her.

[3:14] Sorry, I can't read.

[3:20] The town of Oak Island has sustained a great loss in her death.

[3:23] We firmly believe that Sheila's parting words to the town would have been

[3:26] Love, yeah, mean it.

[3:29] Now, therefore, be it resolved on behalf of the town of Oak Island is Citizen Staff,

[3:34] the mayor of the town council by this resolution public record,

[3:37] extends serious and serious regret to Sheila Bell's family members for their loss and the hope of that her family will be

[3:44] consoled by the memories of her life and achievement and the ongoing visible signs of the impact of the

[3:50] Oakland community. Be it further more resolved that this resolution be made part of the official minutes of the

[3:55] town of Oak Island and that is is a official copy of this expression of our deepest sympathy

[4:00] presenters are her family. We would ask if any of her friends and family would like to come receive a copy.

[4:29] Thank you everyone. We speak to you.

[4:39] You now begin the main portion of the hearing or the meeting.

[4:44] We will be starting off with a public hearing.

[4:48] The purpose of this public hearing is to receive citizen comments.

[4:51] on proposed amendment to the town ordinance,

[4:53] coder ordinance section 8-197, the right of clear.

[5:00] Do you have any presentation on that?

[5:04] We do not. If you'd like to hear from Mr. Hornick just briefly about the purpose of the ordinance, amendment.

[5:11] May have noticed on your agenda, the CPM, we have an appeal or two from the minimum housing determinations.

[5:19] And the statute provides that appeals are to be made to the housing appeals board.

[5:25] And tonight, this ordinance, we're

[5:29] remaining the ordinance so that the Town Council can, in fact, act as the, as the, as the housing code appeals board.

[5:36] And that's, that's, that's what this is about in, in summary.

[5:41] I can call this hearing through close.

[5:47] Which I have any motion.

[5:49] I'll make a motion.

[5:50] I'll make a motion to approve the amendment.

[5:52] It's just six to eight, dash one, nine, seven of the Towns Code of Ordnance, as presented.

[5:58] Second.

[5:59] All in favor.

[6:02] Thank you.

[6:02] That concludes these public hearing.

[6:05] We have a presentation this evening.

[6:10] Introduction of our U.S. Coast Guard CGG.

[6:21] Hey, good evening, Council.

[6:23] Good evening, Mayor.

[6:24] I have the distinct privilege and introducing our new senior

[6:30] chief at the Coast Guard right here on Oak Island. We have a great working relationship with

[6:37] the Coast Guard and it really started years ago with the previous senior chief. We do

[6:44] things with them. We interact with the Coast Guard. Maybe not on a weekly basis but on a

[6:49] monthly basis and there was a change in other guard for three weeks ago. Yeah, three weeks

[6:56] go and Jason Gazillo was fortunate enough to come back, you know, come back to Oak Island

[7:02] and I will let him give some background but it's a great honor to have him. He is a wonderful

[7:07] guy and we're looking so forward to working with him so I just wanted to bring him to you

[7:13] to you tonight so you can put a name with the face and we'll continue that great relationship

[7:21] that we had with Logan Aconson on with Chief Gazello here.

[7:25] But I'll turn it over to him.

[7:28] Good evening.

[7:29] Good morning.

[7:30] Good afternoon, Mayor.

[7:31] Councilman.

[7:32] Thank you guys for the opportunity to be here to present myself.

[7:37] And introduce myself.

[7:39] First and foremost, I have semi condolences to Sheila and her family.

[7:43] It seems like she had a everlasting impact on the community.

[7:47] I took over three weeks ago and I've had nothing but warm welcomes from Chief Morris and Chief

[7:53] Price from the Fire Department.

[7:55] I've had 24 years of service, I've done three tours here in North Carolina, so I'm glad

[8:00] to be back with serving down in Southern Texas, protecting the maritime border and protection

[8:05] down there, supporting the United States down there.

[8:09] I look forward to continuing tradition and upholding the traditions here in Oak Island.

[8:17] I was in Riceville Beach before.

[8:19] I was in Hoboken, North Carolina up there, living in New Burn.

[8:22] This is my 11th duty station and I've never felt more welcomed to be in an area since I've been here.

[8:29] I'm married.

[8:29] I have two children and I look forward to serving this community and thank you Mr. Mayor for this opportunity.

[8:35] Thank you.

[8:47] I'd like to add the resolution to our consent agenda that Councilman Bynum Red.

[8:57] I'd like to remove for discussion, I'd

[9:02] point to the code of ordinances, speed limit

[9:08] ordinance for discussion. And then I'd also do to schedule and conflicts with the applicant would like us to remove item V1.

[9:23] May I? Is there a need for a close session?

[9:26] And there's I believe I was the one who asked for close session and I no longer require a close session.

[9:32] Thank you, Lisa.

[9:34] Thank you.

[9:36] Thank you.

[9:37] Yes, I can shorten it.

[9:38] Can you do I have a motion to accept the agenda as amended?

[9:44] Question?

[9:45] Second question, that's a question.

[9:48] So this is the second month in a row that the applicant for high tide power sports is

[9:53] not shown up.

[9:55] At what point did I have to start kind of the whole process again, meeting with staff, submitting

[9:59] whatever.

[10:00] We just continue to let this roll.

[10:03] But tonight it was that they got a notice that their child had kindergarten orientation.

[10:08] So we did say that that was probably more important.

[10:10] I'm saying.

[10:11] Question stays.

[10:12] So how long, is this something we just can carry for a month or month?

[10:17] I don't, I don't believe we have a time limit on this.

[10:20] Yeah, I would turn the tailor for any updates as far as the UDO is concerned.

[10:29] There is not a time limit for a business license application so it could continue on until the board chooses to hear it.

[10:38] Okay.

[10:39] Thank you.

[10:40] Thank you.

[10:41] So we had a motion and a second.

[10:45] All in favor of the agenda as.

[10:49] Thank you.

[10:51] That brings us to our public comment.

[10:54] This is a reminder that for public comment, you are limited to three minutes.

[10:58] They should be comments of general nature, not directed at any one individual or council member.

[11:05] Good

[11:11] evening, town council and mayor. My name is Glenn Baker and I live on 110 Northease 16th Street.

[11:19] I stand before you tonight to address the compounding crisis facing our community,

[11:25] expanding government, blow, threat of impending tax increases, and a dangerous leadership vacuum created by recent vacancies and key positions.

[11:34] We are witnessing obvious internal turmoil within our administration when court apartment

[11:41] heads and leadership roles sit vacant or turn over rapidly, it cycles a systemic issue.

[11:48] Leaving these positions unfilled or constantly shuffling leadership creates an operational

[11:53] drift where money is spent, project, stall, and accountability disappears.

[11:58] Many of you sitting on this DS ran on platforms of fiscal responsibility, transparency, and protecting our citizens.

[12:07] Tonight I am asking you to honor those promises before the cost of this administrative turmoil has passed directly down to the taxpayers.

[12:16] Oak Island residents, especially the seniors and families living on fixed income, are being squeezed from every direction.

[12:23] inflation is biting, property is reassessments are looming in the cost of daily living

[12:30] continues to climb. Our seniors cannot afford tax hikes driven by organization

[12:35] inefficiency or unaddressed bloke. Every year we hear about financial audits, but a

[12:42] standard financial audit only asks are the numbers accounted for. It fails to answer

[12:48] the question or residents are desperately asking, why are we spending more while

[12:53] the administrative roles remain in total flux.

[12:57] When a town experiences leadership vacuum,

[13:00] knee-jerk reactions take over,

[13:02] departments operate in silos,

[13:05] redundancies multiply, and the default responses

[13:07] to hire more personnel or race taxes to patch over broken processes

[13:12] rather than fixing them.

[13:15] That is why I'm calling on this Council

[13:16] to commission a comprehensive third party operational

[13:20] audit of our town government.

[13:21] An operational audit brings in neutral private sector experts to examine our organizational

[13:27] structure, review workflow inefficiencies, and evaluate staffing needs during this critical

[13:34] transition period.

[13:36] It asks the necessary questions, how do we restructure vacant roles to save money rather than

[13:42] simply refilling bloated positions?

[13:45] Where are we duplicating a administrative effort?

[13:47] How can we streamline operations so we don't force our fixed income residents out of their homes with continuous tax hikes?

[13:56] An operational audit routinely pays for itself by cutting waste and restoring stability.

[14:02] I respectfully request that council place an RFP for a third party operational audit on next month's agenda.

[14:09] Let's protect our seniors, fix the leadership vacuum, and bring true accountability to Oak Island.

[14:14] Thank you.

[14:15] Thank you.

[14:17] Valerie Dolan.

[14:19] Good to have you back.

[14:21] We'll see you up right.

[14:24] Valerie Dolan.

[14:35] It even may have around in members of Town Council.

[14:38] My name is Valerie Dolan and I live at 1624 East Beach Drive.

[14:42] Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to me about something that is very important to the Salty Dog Park community and more importantly about making our park accessible to everyone.

[14:52] Salty dog park has become much more than place where people bring their dogs.

[14:57] It's a community. There's a strong group of...

[15:00] All regular users who care deeply about this park, who know the challenges firsthand, and who want to see it improved so that people of all abilities can safely enjoy it.

[15:10] It's my understanding that you will soon be considering how to move forward with recommendations coming from

[15:15] Hope Island friends of the Park Foundation and the Oak Island Parks and Recreation Advisory Board regarding updates and improvements to the salty dog park.

[15:24] As a voice for the group of regular park users and supporters, I would respectfully ask that you consider these recommendations favorably and prioritize the needs of the salty dog park as you determine how to move forward.

[15:36] We understand that not everything can be accomplished at once,

[15:41] and we are not asking to do that.

[15:43] We're simply asking that these needs be recognized,

[15:47] prioritized, and incorporated into a realistic plan for improvements.

[15:52] We understand that everything on the list cannot and probably

[15:55] should not be done all at once.

[15:57] We understand there are budget limitations,

[16:00] competing priorities, and a process that the town must follow.

[16:04] We are asking, what we are asking for is a commitment to move forward.

[16:09] The list of requested improvements that was provided to the Oak Island Friends of Parks

[16:14] identifies the areas that need attention, particularly those affecting accessibility, safety

[16:20] and usability.

[16:22] These aren't simply cosmetic improvements.

[16:26] They are about making sure someone using a wheelchair, walker, or other mobility device

[16:31] can actually enter the park.

[16:33] Navigate it safely and enjoy the same experience as everyone else, and we don't expect the town to do this alone.

[16:41] There is already dedicated group of regular park users who have been demonstrated that we are willing to be part of the solution.

[16:49] We have already spent countless hours advocating for this park, gathering information, identifying needs and bringing these needs forward, and we are willing to continue.

[16:59] We are willing to help with fundraising, we are willing to help organize efforts, volunteer

[17:04] our time, assist with projects we're appropriate, and help provide information and insight

[17:10] from the people who use the park regularly.

[17:13] We understand there are things that we cannot do ourselves, but where there is something within

[17:19] our ability to help, we want to help.

[17:22] This should be a partnership between the town and the people who care about this park.

[17:27] We also recognize the improvements can be phased, perhaps the most urgent, ADA and safety concerns are addressed first, followed by additional improvements as funding becomes available.

[17:41] What matters is that we establish a plan and begin moving forward, rather than allowing the list to become another item that sits on a shelf.

[17:50] We have worked hard and persisted because we believe salty dog park is worth investing in.

[17:55] But this isn't just a dog park, it's about Oak Island becoming a community that recognizes

[18:01] accessibility, inclusion, and safety as priorities.

[18:07] I would ask you Mayor Brown and the Town Council to support these requested improvements,

[18:13] work with Parks and Recreation Advisory Board and Oak Island Friends of Parks to establish

[18:17] a realistic plan and timeline, and allow the people who use the park and love the park

[18:23] to be part of making that plan successful.

[18:28] We aren't asking you to do everything tomorrow.

[18:30] We are asking you to say yes, to moving forward,

[18:34] and let us help you get there.

[18:36] Thank you.

[18:37] Thank you.

[18:38] The patient may have been a patient man.

[18:42] That's all that we're signed up.

[18:43] So we have, okay.

[18:47] We are now on to council reports.

[18:51] Tell me, I believe it sure, sure, sure, sure.

[18:57] And I apologize for also starting off on a somber note, but I'd also like to take a moment

[19:04] to remember that Venema who recently passed away, Mike was a staff member part of our

[19:21] outgoing member of our communities. So just wanted to take the time to extend my

[19:27] sincere condolences to Bridget and her family. And of course thank Mike for all

[19:32] his service to this town and to our community. That's all for good.

[19:38] Oh, you're my time.

[19:42] Meadies went to a lot of Meadies. Parks and Rec advisory board meeting. I'm the council's

[19:49] is on. Next month, Bill Miller is going to ask to come to Council to talk about the nature

[19:56] trail. He has been fortunate enough to get...

[20:00] The North Carolina Council of State designed off on a 20-year lease that he's going to bring to our attention, but that nature trail is going forward quite well and they're working hard.

[20:12] Part 3 committee hats off to the Todd for all he's doing, the Part 3 golf course is going to have four golf tournaments this year.

[20:24] You know, college inch into the par three course, get people out there and let them know that all the improvements that have been done at that at the par three.

[20:33] Dinging dash, I had fun time to Saturdays to go going out watching all my friends get wet some of them made it all the way some of them didn't that was a fun time.

[20:45] Thank you, please department for that.

[20:47] I want to do a shout-out and hats-off to Cocoa Cabana, Austin Alpon, so last Saturday, was

[20:57] giving away book bags.

[21:00] They're at the period for all the school children just come by and no question is asked,

[21:04] grab you a bag full of all the stuff you need to go to school.

[21:10] And Austin at Cocoa Cabana did that on his own.

[21:13] Thank you, sir.

[21:15] They've left, but I went to my closet looking for a red shirt to honor Sheila Bale since

[21:21] she liked to wear red and I got as close as I could and I told my wife and I was leaving

[21:26] of us wearing a red shirt to honor Sheila and she pointed out to me as pink but I got as

[21:32] close as I could get.

[21:34] I tried.

[21:36] Lastly, people ask all of us from time to time about mobile mats, how come there's not a

[21:43] be mad at this street or how come they're not a mobile mad at that street.

[21:48] My first response is they sure are expensive.

[21:51] My second response is if you know any civic clubs in the organizations, anyone, any group

[21:57] that would like to contact Todd and Scott Thornhal and come up with some mobile events

[22:05] for the town, we would graciously appreciate that.

[22:09] I want to put that plug in.

[22:11] Thank you, sir.

[22:14] It's been a hot, busy summer, as everybody knows it's been a little bit cringety.

[22:19] We got some early numbers on 4th of July.

[22:21] I believe, Kent, you were saying there's over 90,000 people estimated.

[22:25] Yeah, that was correct on around the fifth that weekend, 93,000 estimated.

[22:32] So that's quite a lot of people that were here.

[22:34] You could tell when you went to the 4th of July celebrations, just how busy we were.

[22:38] The beach is looking great. It's holding up very, very well. So we're excited to keep moving.

[22:46] And while we love our tourists, those of us who are local are looking forward to second summer.

[22:54] I'm going to reinforce what Bill was saying about the par three. I've got a number of comments.

[22:59] That's the courses in the best shape it's ever been. So that's pretty high bar.

[23:03] that taught congratulations to you and staff.

[23:07] What a usage reduction I was talking to, Trey, and Ken, so we've experienced consistently

[23:12] at 20% of what a reduction since the mandatory restrictions in place.

[23:19] So great news, thanks to everybody.

[23:21] The new Brentswick County Water Treat Center, the new plant is going to come online to the end

[23:26] of the month, and that's going to double the capacity, so hopefully if it comes online,

[23:30] and it doubles the capacity at that point,

[23:32] maybe the water restrictions go away.

[23:35] And lastly, the reverse osmosis plant

[23:37] that's been delayed by two years,

[23:39] that's gonna supposed to come on line the end of the month,

[23:41] and then end of the year, good news

[23:44] for Brentford County residents, not so good news

[23:47] for Oak Island, St. James, Southport,

[23:50] and Caswell Beach,

[23:51] because we're gonna get a blend of reverse osmosis water

[23:55] and the Cape Fear Treated Water.

[23:57] So for those who have a reverse osmosis system

[23:59] and you have to keep that going.

[24:02] So you don't get the blended water, but thank you.

[24:04] Okay, then last but not least?

[24:07] I think one of the biggest things I would like to do

[24:10] is tonight is just to say thank you to Mayor Brown,

[24:13] Councilwoman Carter, and Councilman.

[24:17] I never could remember your last name for some reason.

[24:20] It's so we're going to call them by their last names.

[24:23] Councilman Brown, just to publicly thank you guys

[24:26] for all you did in the Town Manager search.

[24:28] I don't believe that the most of the people realized what went into that.

[24:33] You guys did an amazing job of keeping us, you guys took the lead, but I think that you

[24:40] guys did a great job organizing and making it as flawless of a process that could possibly

[24:45] be.

[24:46] So, thank you for your efforts.

[24:48] You guys helped us lay out a timeline, it was very, it was very smooth.

[24:52] So I just wanted to publicly say thank you for all the work that you guys did while you

[24:56] the charge, we were all involved in the decision, so thank you guys.

[25:03] All right. So that brings us now to our consent agenda. So I'm going to be asking for a motion to approve the consent agenda with the move of item I2, in the addition of item I6, the resolution.

[25:16] So, Lou, go ahead.

[25:19] Thank you.

[25:19] All those in favor?

[25:22] Motion passes.

[25:25] So, the next item is item from the case consent agenda.

[25:29] That is item I2.

[25:32] Cosmon Brown, you asked for that to be removed?

[25:34] Yes.

[25:35] Of course.

[25:36] So, I'm by no means looking to re-litigate this topic.

[25:40] I just want us to have a informed and deliberate rollout of this change.

[25:47] This will be the first segment of road on the island that is 35 mile an hour, but golf carts, LSVs are not allowed.

[25:57] It's also a section that has been 45 for quite some time.

[26:01] So I want to ensure that, you know, Chief, which I probably should have given a heads up.

[26:09] And maybe Kent that, you know, while we likely will be passing this update that it's not implemented tomorrow.

[26:20] I would hate for us to have found one item from the Blue Ribbon Committee to change and hopefully improve pedestrian safety, but if not rolled out to create new problems.

[26:34] So, I don't have a position on when it should change, how it should change, but I really think

[26:41] time spent planning that, sharing that, and just publicizing it as much as possible,

[26:49] will not hopefully create new issues.

[26:52] My only advice is not during summer and then I defer to you all to lead us with some direction

[27:00] for how we implement this change.

[27:03] Yeah, certainly advice we'll take and we did get a little bit of a heads-up about this.

[27:10] So Chief Morris and I discuss this briefly today about the number of ways we can approach

[27:18] notifications using our different pieces of infrastructure, mobile signage, etc.

[27:25] And including our usual multi-media notifications through the current through social media and so forth.

[27:38] So, and we also talked about the consideration of getting well beyond kind of the vacation season before we consider when to implement the notification plan.

[27:54] So think we're in sync with that and have some good thoughts.

[28:00] Chief certainly, if you'd like to add anything, feel free and come up.

[28:04] Yeah, as Chief comes up, I think one missing piece and I'm sure you would have got to it

[28:09] is maybe working with golf cart rental companies to help them appreciate the change.

[28:16] I imagine their literature will have to be updated pieces of our website likely will have

[28:22] be updated and then I get now it's just one extra piece that I didn't quite get.

[28:30] Thank you.

[28:31] I appreciate the fact that we're trying to get ahead of this because I certainly do not

[28:36] want any issues on the back end when it's completely unnecessary.

[28:41] So however we do have like now right now a loose plan about how to move forward with this.

[28:48] However our specific date will rely on the OT.

[28:52] Once we get through tonight, we'll send our confirmation to DOT, DOT will then come out and

[28:58] change the speed limit signs. So, but we need a date first. So, I was on the phone with Alan today

[29:06] with DOT discussing that part of it with him. So, once we get that hard date, we will certainly start

[29:15] laying the groundwork to educate our community, our visitors, and move forward with that and just like

[29:23] Mr. Jackson will say, and we'll use all of our social media, the website, the current,

[29:29] to push that information out, we'll have our message boards up, and I too agree that we don't

[29:38] even need to address this till after Labor Day.

[29:41] We'll get through the season and around October 1, somewhere in that neighborhood that we can

[29:49] go live with an effective date.

[29:53] But yes, we discussed that this afternoon.

[29:56] Could we possibly make consideration for pledge to think they're coming in?

[30:00] October, we're going to have an influx of guests that are not regular attenders, I think that and the

[30:07] which is right. So we've got two big October things that are heavily visited, so maybe take those

[30:17] into consideration. And we certainly will. And of course, before we'll do the education campaign

[30:25] And then before we start doing any type of enforcement so that date when we unveil it will have that hard day

[30:32] We will not enforce until after after that date

[30:36] But definitely after Labor Day in October November, you know, we'll get beyond this get beyond the holiday or this season

[30:44] Okay, Chief if if I make sure

[30:47] I'll find with you implementing the change whenever you think you're supposed to implement the change

[30:51] Thank you sir. I'll stay out of that

[30:54] To cut to the chase is 45 mile per hour for Middleton to 19th Street, from 19th Street to Country Club is 35 mile per hour, is that correct?

[31:06] That's correct.

[31:08] And secondly, no golf carts from 37th Street to 19th Street.

[31:14] Just like it has been from 37th all the way to Middleton now is from 37th to 19th, no golf carts.

[31:20] That's correct.

[31:21] That's the bottom line.

[31:22] Yeah, that's it.

[31:25] Thank you, sir.

[31:28] Thank you.

[31:29] Any other discussion?

[31:30] Mayor, may I make one comment for the record, please?

[31:34] So, NCDOT, you had requested that while we implement an addition of the 35-mile

[31:39] power in the new zone, we also repeal the ordinance for the 45-mile power in that zone.

[31:45] The town did not have such an ordinance.

[31:47] So, we are simply establishing 35-mile square in that zone, but I wanted to note that for

[31:52] record so I can send the minutes along with it.

[31:54] There is no coordinates to repeal.

[31:57] Yes, sir.

[31:58] Thank you.

[31:59] All right.

[32:00] So I make a motion to do what Lisa just requested.

[32:04] And also approved the addition to section 2811 as well as the creation or the addition to

[32:15] 2814 of our town's code of ordinances as presented in our agenda packet.

[32:21] Yeah, do I have a second?

[32:23] I'll second.

[32:25] Okay, all those in favor, five zero.

[32:32] All right.

[32:33] That brings us to committee appointments.

[32:37] You need, you have your balance.

[32:40] All right.

[32:40] I had a question about the balance for the clerk.

[32:45] And I just wanted to get her direction on how we should do this.

[32:51] So since there are a number of applicants for

[32:54] the regular positions on the planning board and then the alternates. If you want to vote for

[32:59] just the regular positions on the planning board and then also the environmental advisory committee,

[33:04] then we can tell you those. We can redistribute your sheets, and then we can vote on the alternates.

[33:09] Because that might change. That makes sense to everybody. All okay. You vote for the public.

[33:14] The public should be on the committee, and then we're from that room and do the after that we will

[33:18] do the alternates. That we're going to vote on the environmental committee first.

[33:23] Both. And the regular planning board of pointies. Both. What you, it's just a, yeah.

[33:28] You're not marking an alternate at this time. The sheets back out and we'll go in the alternate.

[33:32] So I already filled out my alternate. So you can go that and I'll erase it if it's no priority.

[33:39] No, no problem.

[33:41] You're just an overachiever moving fast.

[33:53] Let's go for the younger one.

[33:58] That is a very small, pretty fancy voting sheet.

[34:04] Well, the clerk is doing that.

[34:06] I want to thank everyone who came tonight and brave the weather.

[34:09] It has been crazy out there.

[34:11] What up?

[34:11] We have 50510.

[34:14] It's been a little bit toasty.

[34:17] So the air conditioning is doing pretty good tonight.

[35:03] I'm sorry,

[35:49] it's a new form for me. No, no, just take your time. Make sure it's just accurate, that's all.

[35:55] Take your time. Small fonts, hard to read.

[36:52] Okay, we have five votes for David Percer and one of the regular terms on the planning board.

[36:58] And four votes from council members, Brown, Bynum, Chulo, and Craft for Scott Stevenson for regular term on the board.

[37:05] And four votes from council members, Brown, Bynum, Cartner, and Kraft for Robert Carpenter for a regular term.

[37:16] To the Environmental Advisory Committee, there were five votes for each of the applicants.

[37:22] You know, we had a couple of people that did already vote for alternate, so didn't.

[37:27] Should just pass all the sheets back again.

[37:30] Yes.

[37:34] Did Aaron get the longer term?

[37:48] So at this time, you will vote for two of the remaining John Blavins, Jean Brooks, and William Stewart for the alternate terms.

[40:30] Okay, mayer. With at least four votes, because some of you voted for the same person's vice. We have Williams Stewart as an alternate. And then the next highest vote getter is Jean Brooks, for an alternate position.

[40:50] Thank you.

[40:51] Thank you.

[40:52] With that, we come now to the administrative reports, and I'll turn that over to Mr. Jackson.

[41:06] getting the mayor in Council.

[41:11] So as we heard earlier, we have experienced the, I guess, the bitter part of the circle of life recently.

[41:23] But the good news is there's sweet parts of the circle yet to come and those who have gone before us would want us to enjoy that.

[41:32] So talk about administrative reports and some other town business.

[41:41] As you know, we have started the financial audit process, actually on yesterday, the staff

[41:49] members of the audit firm came on site.

[41:54] They will be here through Thursday completing their file and record sampling and asking questions

[42:03] so forth.

[42:05] We anticipate their report in the first half of October and at that point we will schedule

[42:12] the town council presentation and the process will continue from there.

[42:16] Again, Kudos to especially Melissa Craig and other members of the Finance Department who have pulled together as a team to make this happen on the desired schedule, the typical schedule.

[42:35] There was an opportunity to delay this off extended by the firm, but they were able to keep this on track, so that's impressive work on their part.

[42:48] Parking, of course, we were moving in to certainly the second half, the latter part of the parking season,

[42:54] so I'd ask Otto for an update, so I think as we've kind of felt the activity of visitation has increased,

[43:05] and the revenues have increased along with that, a six and a half percent increase over 2025.

[43:14] five, they also included some statistics about citations and season permit sales, citations,

[43:26] I've experienced the 5% reduction, I've not had a, you know, that is positive in the

[43:37] education and our signage and so forth is maybe having a more significant impact, so

[43:46] thanks to Mike and his office for helping us to boost up the parking information, seasoned

[43:57] sales increased slightly over 2025 at almost 1,500 season permit sales.

[44:09] So this is a kind of midyear snapshot as we get to the conclusion of the parking season.

[44:16] We will have a more in-depth discussion with Otto to debrief on how the season went and

[44:22] considerations for the future.

[44:29] Councilmember Tula mentioned this in his comments.

[44:32] The county on yesterday moved to move back to stage two water restriction notice.

[44:41] One of the highlights of that is the expanded irrigation schedules.

[44:45] understaged to automatic irrigation is allowed six days per week.

[44:53] It's three days for odd number to address is three days for even number to address is.

[45:00] Still with a note you're gating on Mondays.

[45:05] I also obtained some usage data from our public utilities.

[45:11] So again, see there that first entry on July 5th was the peak of our usage at about 2.8 million gallons on the 10th.

[45:22] right around the tent. This when the county went to the stage three mandatory restriction level.

[45:30] So you can see how our usage has remained fairly reduced, but fairly steady with a slight

[45:39] precipitous decrease to this latest number on this past Sunday.

[45:45] So certainly the restrictions and the communication has proven to have an impact here, so we will continue staying close contact with the county.

[46:02] We had a team's meeting with them today to review the current stage.

[46:07] They are considering or actually plan a further date to their water emergency plan.

[46:18] They have encouraged wholesale customers, such as us, Oceanow Beach, et cetera, to wait

[46:26] until they complete that to consider any further updates to our own water emergency plan.

[46:34] So we will continue to monitor that and at the appropriate time,

[46:39] bring forth any new recommendations for next season

[46:43] or for the future.

[46:47] Burn band continues to be, in effect,

[46:51] I've not heard any substantial discussions

[46:54] of that changing.

[46:56] So that's kind of a baseline update.

[47:00] There I'll talk about a few of our projects that

[47:04] ongoing, either in planning or construction phase.

[47:11] 79th Street Signal, I got some updates about that this week.

[47:17] The utility easement that the Council approved for the project was accepted.

[47:25] The project has been submitted to the Federal Highway Administration for review and final

[47:32] construction approval and the project continues on schedule to start construction near the end of calendar year,

[47:42] 2026.

[47:47] Also, actually tonight on your agenda and the consent, you approved a resolution to ask for funding for additional crosswalks

[48:01] that East O'Cowland Drive in 31st and 40th as well as a location on fish factory road that

[48:09] would line up with the Dutchman Creek County Park.

[48:15] I learned today that the decision timeline for these projects is likely December of this year

[48:23] when we will learn our fate as far as these projects request.

[48:27] Also notably earlier this year we talked about a crosswalk project at 58th and that project got off schedule because of some right of way complications.

[48:42] So I learned today that that project has been approved by Federal Highway and NCDOT to be brought forward into the FY27 project program.

[49:00] So that's good news for us that the project is going to be moving forward again without additional information or additional action on our project.

[49:12] So keep your posted as we learn more about that.

[49:17] It can quick question if I may.

[49:19] So these three, are they taken on their own in terms of review and fish factor may be approved

[49:25] but 31st may not be approved.

[49:28] Yeah, they will each stand on their own merits.

[49:32] So just speak.

[49:33] Thank you.

[49:38] Next one.

[49:39] So doing planting.

[49:41] The physical den planting wrapped up in June, a latter part of June, so it is now more than

[49:49] halfway through the 90-day monitoring stage.

[49:53] This photograph is on the the western end of the project where the

[50:00] Actual Sand Placement included the Dune Burm adjacent to residential properties. This photo was taken

[50:10] sometime in the early part of last week, provided by the contractor.

[50:18] Myfit & Nickel is providing

[50:20] the monitoring. They have placed out markers and they are doing periodic reviews through the 90-day

[50:27] period to determine that end of that period, what amount and location of replanting will be required.

[50:41] This factory road, we had to kind of face two improvements being scoped in the background.

[50:48] But I wanted to talk tonight about seasonal impacts.

[50:52] We talked about the population or the visitor estimates of over 90,000 in July.

[51:03] So, those visits have, obviously, have impact seasonally on our infrastructure.

[51:10] And the Fish Factory plant is certainly one of those locations that experiences this.

[51:16] just to give you a visual on, you know, turn over days, Saturdays, when, you know, hundreds of units are

[51:24] turning over in a short window. They're being cleaned and tons of linens and sheets and so forth.

[51:34] They're being laundered. That produces a, you know, considerable chemical load and creates an

[51:45] balance at the plant. So our staff has been working over the past two weekends.

[51:54] To isolate the periods of time when the heaviest inflow of those chemicals is occurring

[52:02] so that we can develop operational strategies going forward to make sure that the plant stays within the

[52:10] the criterion limits required by the state permit.

[52:20] So little Davis Canal last week, I had a meeting with the

[52:26] consultant.

[52:27] They have completed their surveys and their studies and their analysis.

[52:34] Somebody key findings I've talked about in the past the permit,

[52:40] permit for this canal contains a maintenance clause that's advantageous for potential future

[52:47] dredging.

[52:49] The consultant has determined that the approximate quantity of dredging is between

[52:57] 12 and 13,000 cubic yards of material that could potentially be removed after it's permitted.

[53:07] and the cost approximately $2 million is the potential cost for doing that that

[53:18] dredging. So we will be getting the consultants final reports later this month

[53:26] likely the next steps after that will be a follow-up meeting with the

[53:31] directly impacted property owners to share the findings and get some feedback and start to at least

[53:41] loud a framework for council to consider as far as, you know, what next steps might be appropriate.

[53:52] So, what do you recall and can and making no assumptions that this will proceed, but did

[54:00] the agreement with this particular contractor outlined support and identifying grants or

[54:06] under other funding sources for the project outside of just the town covering it entirely.

[54:12] And they actually articulated several of those that they are aware or have become aware of in

[54:22] our meeting last week.

[54:25] So can I I can attest to the fact that this area needs some attention, but we also have other areas of the area around southwest 15 they call it little pine island.

[54:37] If you cross that bridge at Boatide, there is no water and folks have boats sitting on the mud, you know, so

[54:49] I want to make sure that we don't look at this as just the only issue that we have.

[54:54] We have other taxpayers who can't gain access to in and out of there.

[55:00] Properly during low tide, more severe than the little Davis Canal. So I think we've got to be careful about how we approach this and do for some and not for others.

[55:15] Yeah, point will take us not altogether clear the burden in the background of this, and it certainly may lead to some type of more comprehensive assessment or review of troublesome areas.

[55:37] I can't correct me if I'm wrong.

[55:40] When this first came to Council's attention, a group of homeowners in the Little Davis Canal

[55:46] asked if we would do a feasibility study and if they would be responsible for the cost and

[55:52] at no time did we put anything in the budget and my correct on that?

[55:57] For this going forward.

[55:59] Do my best knowledge, the only funds that the town has committed to was for the study, the

[56:07] So, anything else that comes out of that, if grants don't come out of it, we've done some work for the people that live on Little Davis Canal.

[56:16] We can give them that information, but we're not undertaking the project until five of us are done.

[56:25] Correct. Yeah, we've not made any certainly no commitments or no emphasis to any of those owners.

[56:34] only a handful, three or four, have been actively engaged with us in this process.

[56:42] But the two million dollars cost is more than they thought they would hear.

[56:47] And probably more than we thought we would hear.

[56:50] Most likely, I honestly did not have a good idea of what the order of magnitude might be,

[56:56] but certainly it is even higher than I would likely have imagined.

[57:01] You know, I think it's fair to say that the town's been engaged with a couple of people.

[57:06] That's because that neighborhood pointed those people correct to work with the town.

[57:12] They're about 65 houses that sit on Little Davis Canal.

[57:17] And when they have a meeting, they all come.

[57:22] And they were prepared to take matters into their own hands a couple of years ago.

[57:26] And I said, wait, wait, please reach out to the town.

[57:32] At one point they were amenable to having a special assessment of something like $500 per

[57:40] property.

[57:42] Well, unfortunately, that's only $30,000.

[57:45] What can you do?

[57:45] What can you do with that?

[57:50] But I just, you know, I think we have to proceed with caution and excluding some and excluding

[57:57] this group is taxpayers just like every other group in town and I don't want to turn my head

[58:03] against these people. Just because we heard a nobody number but we need to not be

[58:08] polyan and we need to know that there's not so much money in the tail and we have to be

[58:13] do our duty elephants to see where we can find additional money before we can help people.

[58:18] To move forward on a discussion which we're having and we need this feasibility study was needed we

[58:22] have it, and whatever you're finding, so I will bring it back, I have some dialogue.

[58:28] But, you know, quick math, you know, that $2 million is equates to about $30,000 per

[58:32] impact at home.

[58:34] And that's an awful lot of money for a very small group of homes.

[58:38] But, and did this study provide any advice for the longevity of the canal after a

[58:48] Project was completed, can they forecast the canal will maintain this depth for close to

[58:58] extra years, so we can truly appreciate what sort of investment we're making, a one-year

[59:04] enjoyment or a 10, 20-year.

[59:08] We did not discuss any of that part of recommendations last week, aside from a general comment

[59:17] about the kind of importance of a ongoing maintenance-dredging program, which is logical, but.

[59:27] So we will have to devote some time to discuss any of those kind of recommendations.

[59:41] So water master plan is about 20% complete and work effort.

[59:46] They have completed the kind of

[59:51] kind of canvassing of the system.

[59:52] They have identified around 1100 drainage structures in the town.

[1:00:00] Through the droning kind of process, what's happening now is you may seek crews throughout town who are actually physically on the ground trying to physically locate and survey these structures.

[1:00:17] I know that they have found some locations where drainage structures had become buried or

[1:00:28] inundated with sediment so that they're not working properly and things like that.

[1:00:36] So this is a longer project extending through probably most of the first half of

[1:00:47] updates as we get substantial new information.

[1:00:58] Streetpaving started by two to three weeks ago on the mainland portion.

[1:01:04] The neighborhood streets that were included on the mainland section are complete.

[1:01:11] Now the contractor will start some limited production primarily on the west end of

[1:01:19] paving a few streets in the short term, and then they will ramp up and complete the project

[1:01:26] after Labor Day once traffic starts to significantly dissipate.

[1:01:35] Kai wants, we have received the camp permits, the consultant is preparing to bid advertisements.

[1:01:43] And again, this is a 75% funded project by NCDE here, and this is on 31st Street behind the

[1:01:58] Rec Center.

[1:02:02] And it was really excited about the movie night coming up on September 4th as kind of part

[1:02:10] of a weekend of events for Sunset on Summer and then followed by the Sunset on Summer Music Festival

[1:02:19] on Saturday.

[1:02:21] So, Ian Todd and his group is done a nice job kind of adding, adding something that, you

[1:02:28] know, we'll see what kind of feedback we get and consider for programming for next season.

[1:02:35] So

[1:02:37] that's my updates, so you're very, you're very first slide if I'm

[1:02:42] a major auto on parking, yes sir.

[1:02:48] Through July 1,142,000, 27 dollars.

[1:02:54] That is prior to auto taking out there 30 percent, is that correct?

[1:03:01] Because we usually generate 1.2 million dollars in paid parking.

[1:03:04] if we've already generated 1.1, 4 from rough numbers.

[1:03:09] That is rough numbers without auto taking their 30.

[1:03:13] Yes, that is.

[1:03:14] First of all, this is gross numbers.

[1:03:17] Still great numbers.

[1:03:19] Thank you.

[1:03:21] Any other questions?

[1:03:23] All right.

[1:03:23] Thank you.

[1:03:24] Yep.

[1:03:24] Thank you.

[1:03:26] Okay.

[1:03:27] Do we have any old business?

[1:03:29] I don't believe we do.

[1:03:32] Okay.

[1:03:32] And we go on to new business.

[1:03:34] Item one has been removed, which brings us to item two.

[1:03:39] Item two is the appeal 26 to ask 01290.

[1:03:43] This is a quasi-judicial hearing.

[1:03:46] So there's a couple of things on this.

[1:03:49] I'd like to explain how this process works.

[1:03:52] The hearing on this matter is a quasi-judicial in nature,

[1:03:55] and we'll be conducted a manner to protect

[1:03:57] the due process rights of the parties involved.

[1:04:00] Members of the Council may ask questions of each witness after the witness testifies when questions are called for by me.

[1:04:08] The testimony that witnesses give today shall be taken under oath.

[1:04:12] If a witness wants the council to see written evidence, such as reports, maps, pictures or other exhibits, then here she should be familiar with the evidence.

[1:04:21] It should explain the document and ask that it be introduced during during or at the end of his or her testimony.

[1:04:27] And the attorneys who speak should not be a factual testimony but may summarize their client's

[1:04:32] case.

[1:04:34] After all testimony, the council will deliberate and make a final decision based on substantial

[1:04:38] competent and material evidence in the record.

[1:04:41] The council cannot make a decision based on evidence or information that is not part of the record.

[1:04:47] The final decision of the council shall be reduced to writing and will include findings of fact

[1:04:52] and conclusions of law.

[1:04:57] We did not do a sign-up shake, correct?

[1:04:59] We did.

[1:05:00] This is separate from a public hearing.

[1:05:02] Right. So, that's one of the things they have to have about a sign of sheet.

[1:05:06] All right. So, at this time, we'll swear in any witnesses.

[1:05:13] For those who wish to come

[1:05:32] up.

[1:05:38] Left hand on the Bible, measure right, we have one more coming.

[1:05:44] Measure right hand please. You solemnly swear that the evidence to give to the town council during this hearing

[1:05:48] shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth that I hope you got.

[1:06:03] But do you want to do the council's conflicts or should I?

[1:06:08] You can go ahead and do it.

[1:06:10] Okay, before opening that, the hearing, council members should reveal any possible

[1:06:14] complex and withdraw from the use proceedings of necessary.

[1:06:17] Complex included but not limited to a member having a fixed opinion prior to the hearing.

[1:06:22] The manner that is not susceptible to change.

[1:06:25] Undisclosed expartate communications, a close familiar business or other associational

[1:06:30] relationship of an affected person or a financial interest in the outcome of the matter.

[1:06:35] If an objection is raised to a member's participation, that member does not accuse himself

[1:06:38] or herself, the remaining member shall, by majority, both rule on the objection.

[1:06:44] Council members, at this time, does anyone have any conflicts that they are aware of?

[1:06:50] Okay, thank you.

[1:06:55] Okay.

[1:06:56] So once again, in this hearing, we'll first hear from the town staff, then from the applicant

[1:07:00] and their witnesses, and then for many proponents or opponents that request.

[1:07:04] The applicant may, if it chooses, reserve time at the end for a rebuttal, parties may cross

[1:07:09] examine a witness after the witness testifies who questions are called for.

[1:07:14] Again, reminder if you want the council to see written evidence.

[1:07:17] Please make sure you're familiar with it and you include it in your testimony.

[1:07:21] With the guidance of the attorney I would correct you if you do not follow proper procedures,

[1:07:26] and I will rule on all objections.

[1:07:28] Before you begin your testimony, please clearly

[1:07:30] identify yourself and your address for the record.

[1:07:34] There are no time limits on how long you may speak,

[1:07:37] but I ask you to be considerate of everyone's time

[1:07:39] and be concise with your comments.

[1:07:42] Also, I can't a little stop any testimony

[1:07:43] that is irrelevant to the application,

[1:07:46] not competent, unduly repetitive evidence

[1:07:48] already given for a personal attack.

[1:07:53] At this time, I now open the hearing,

[1:07:55] And I'll ask the town staff to make the presentation on this matter.

[1:08:00] Okay. Good evening. So we are here to hear in a pure case for 4906 East.

[1:08:08] To give you some case history like a timeline, a building permit was issued for the property in December of 2021.

[1:08:15] And that was to raise the existing home onto a new piling foundation.

[1:08:19] The piling's were installed, but the home is never raised.

[1:08:22] Just as a note, building permits expire after 12 consecutive months of discontinued work.

[1:08:29] Notice of violations were first sent to the property owner on February 23, 2023.

[1:08:35] At least eight notice of isolation letters had been mailed to the property owner with no response.

[1:08:40] Alternatively, staff moved the case over to minimum housing earlier this year.

[1:08:46] It administrative warrant was executed on April 7th and staff

[1:08:50] inspected the interior structure after we serve that warrant.

[1:08:56] We held a minimum housing hearing on April 29th of this year.

[1:08:59] The owner did attend.

[1:09:01] However, the hearing was continued to allow the property owner to assemble some additional

[1:09:08] information and provide proof of contractor at that second hearing.

[1:09:13] The hearing was resumed on May 13th, but it did not attend that meeting.

[1:09:19] After reviewing evidence, the hearing officer, which is the Assistant Tom Manager, can

[1:09:23] Jackson determine the property to be in a dilapidated condition.

[1:09:28] Dilapidated means the required repairs exceed 50% of the tax value of the structure.

[1:09:34] This does not include the value of the land.

[1:09:37] The tax value of the structure is 6,930 dollars.

[1:09:41] The estimated cost of her pairs were $130,000,000, $36,000.

[1:09:49] The minimum housing order was mailed to the owner and posted on the property.

[1:09:54] The order ordered the demolition or removal of the structure within 90 days.

[1:09:59] The deadline.

[1:10:00] Today, August 18th. And a pill application was received on May 27th, and that effectively paused the enforcement clock.

[1:10:09] So the condition of the property, why they were received and then on housing violations. So,

[1:10:15] wiring, you know, electrical fixtures were in a state of disrepair. There's no heating facilities and good working condition.

[1:10:20] There's a lack of exterior weatherproofing, rather proofing. And interior floors, walls and partitions were found to be in an unsound condition.

[1:10:28] sanitary facilities were in a non-working condition.

[1:10:32] There is no hot or cold water supply.

[1:10:34] The property was in an overall and sanitary condition

[1:10:37] at the time of inspection.

[1:10:39] There was a deceased animal on the property.

[1:10:42] There was an unsafe foundation.

[1:10:43] Means of egress, stairs, and porch.

[1:10:46] And there were broken windows among other issues.

[1:10:50] There's just a few pictures that we took on that inspection.

[1:10:56] This is showing the interior, this is the outside, and another interior photo, and then

[1:11:05] some more steers, and that's Mr. Brick over there on the right, climb in the ladder to

[1:11:10] get into the house,

[1:11:14] and that's all gone, Mr. Wind.

[1:11:16] Well, thank you. At this time, do any members of the council have any questions for the town

[1:11:21] staff?

[1:11:23] So, can you go back to your first, the timeline slide?

[1:11:30] Were there from, after the permits to install the new pilings, had there ever been any permits

[1:11:38] of any kind ever submitted for work on the property since the main operating system?

[1:11:46] They are eight letters were sent with no responses.

[1:11:50] Do we have an assurance that date letters were delivered?

[1:11:55] They were not all sent certified, so I don't have certified receipts, but we send them first class or certified.

[1:12:01] So I don't have receipts of all of them.

[1:12:04] They're sent to the tax mailing address, so whatever address is on file with the county as they're mailing addresses where they go.

[1:12:11] If we can find out someone is living in another address, we will also send it to that address.

[1:12:19] But we didn't have any kind of information of a different address for this property owner.

[1:12:24] And administrative war. What is an administrative war?

[1:12:28] So it's different than a warrant that a police officer would get.

[1:12:32] It's someone like me a regular administrative staff member.

[1:12:37] You kind of same process.

[1:12:38] I have to go to the court house and get the administrative warrant, but it allows like zoning

[1:12:43] staff or planning staff to be able to access a property and we of course take police officers

[1:12:50] with us just in case.

[1:12:54] $130,000 is estimated to be repairs and that property is one block from the ocean.

[1:13:02] So, it is likely more the instruction that we give to our estimator is once you hit a certain number where it's clearly obvious that it's over 50% you can stop, we don't need the full gamut.

[1:13:18] They also don't go and tear things apart to see the full breath of what those repairs might be. This is just a general overview.

[1:13:28] I had one more question, sorry.

[1:13:32] As part of the condition of determining the tax value,

[1:13:35] did you all determine or have a opinion

[1:13:39] on whether the new pylings are usable

[1:13:43] or with that as part of the demolition

[1:13:47] with those two be required to be removed along with the structure itself?

[1:13:53] So the pilings themselves are not a residential structure so I wouldn't interpret that to mean that the pilings have to be removed and I want to say Mr. Brooks said the pilings looked good

[1:14:03] So I don't think they need to be removed. The tax value comes from the county. It comes from the.

[1:14:22] Okay, okay.

[1:14:22] Your recommendation was that the house is not able to be fixed.

[1:14:27] It must be demolished and replaced, is that correct?

[1:14:30] The statute says that if the repair cost is found to be over 50% the structure shall be removed

[1:14:39] or demolished and so the hearing officer during the hearing found the property to be dilapidated

[1:14:46] and the repairs to be 50% more or cost more than 50% of the tax value.

[1:14:53] So the house that's on the property now is unable to be lifted and to be put on the

[1:14:58] And that's the current state yet.

[1:15:00] Okay.

[1:15:04] To flesh, and this may be a question for, but to flesh out our role, we are not determining whether

[1:15:15] something can be fixed or whether something can be moved on to the existing pylings and then repaired.

[1:15:22] We're being asked to determine if the required repairs exceed 50% of the tax value of the structure.

[1:15:30] essentially I mean you're being asked to either affirm reverse or modify. And that's the

[1:15:35] conclusion they made. The staff made. Okay. And I guess one more did have you shared with us

[1:15:44] anything demonstrating the tax value other than your PowerPoint slide. I believe I've put the tax

[1:15:51] card in the agenda but if I didn't I can give it that is available on GIS it's publicly available

[1:15:56] anyone can look at it. But I assume we would need that today to treat it as part of her presentation, right?

[1:16:03] Well, you have her testimony. Okay. Which you can choose to question not fair. Okay. Thank you.

[1:16:12] To clarify, and Bob, you might need to answer this, sir.

[1:16:17] Tom, these questions, are we saying? Are you saying that if it is, if we determine that it is more than

[1:16:23] 50% of the structure is in disregardless of what the builder says that he can or cannot do,

[1:16:35] we don't care.

[1:16:36] Is that what?

[1:16:37] Well, I mean, if the builder comes back and says that the cost to repair is less than 50%

[1:16:44] of the tax value and property, then you have to decide who is testimony seen as reasonable

[1:16:50] to you.

[1:16:51] Thank you.

[1:16:54] And just to be clear for this board to overturn the appeal, we need four of us to vote in favor of the appeal and non-majority.

[1:17:04] So just to be clear, so a three to two vote in favor of the appeal is insufficient to overturn the appeal.

[1:17:13] Thank you.

[1:17:14] Thank you.

[1:17:17] Okay, at this time, we'll now hear from the applicant in the applicant witnesses.

[1:17:21] I

[1:17:26] need Berkeley and I'm the property at 4906 East Beach.

[1:17:35] The Hurricane ICAS watched it back there and it took the house mover a long time to get

[1:17:43] it straightened up near and I got my pal and seen it and repaired the framework and then

[1:17:55] my health. I had just two weeks before the storm had opened heart surgery. I worked on it

[1:18:01] and did not kind of loss my health.

[1:18:06] So, I hadn't, my life has just been one thing after

[1:18:10] another after another. And so I finally got to the point that I could get back to the house

[1:18:18] I answered much of my mail or anything, but now I've gotten to where I cleaned up the

[1:18:26] yard and boarded up the windows, cleaned out the house, and on the first hearing, I explained

[1:18:36] this to everybody, and they said, come back, I said, I was doing it myself, but I think

[1:18:43] need a contractor and David Wallace had told me when it happened he'd helped so I went to

[1:18:50] him and I went back to the second hearing but it had happened a week ago and I'm just

[1:18:58] not good at linear time anymore and I didn't get any when I left the place I didn't have

[1:19:07] the notes written down when the next date was and I made a mistake on the date and I meant

[1:19:13] to come back, and David came with me, but it had already been done, and so all I'm trying

[1:19:21] to do, I mean my family's own debt, probably since 62, and all I'm trying to do is get my

[1:19:29] house, I didn't do this to put it on pile, and it's the hurricane washed it back, and I've

[1:19:37] put it on pounds or wash it away again, but so that's all I want to do is get my house fixed

[1:19:49] and I've got a contractor and we just the pounds are sitting. The permit hadn't changed.

[1:19:56] nothing changed since it got the permit to the house.

[1:20:00] So, since I already had the permit, I don't understand other than my being sitting not answering the letter that this is happening when I'm trying to do is getting my house back in a way it was before the storm.

[1:20:17] Did you receive those letters? The eight letters have were sent to you. I don't know. I was in and out a long COVID and short COVID and lost my daughter.

[1:20:32] And I would David now write in the letter about all that and we just got tired of all the bad luck.

[1:20:40] And since then David has received two notices that our appeal had been approved and all we had to do was pay $2,500.

[1:20:52] It came on town, it came on town letterhead.

[1:20:57] When did you receive time? Well, he'll have to tell you that I'm not good with dates. The first time he went down to get the permits.

[1:21:07] Well, and at the first meeting, at that first hearing I said, well, can't I just go down and get my permits now?

[1:21:15] And she said, well, oh no, you can try. And so we're just trying to get a permit and get my house put back up there.

[1:21:23] And, no matter what anybody says, I've read the Ocean Education Center as a project

[1:21:33] supervisor.

[1:21:35] I mean, I mean, number eight, beside the peer, the old skateboarding, and so I know

[1:21:44] how to do things and I can do the fours just need to cover and the roof not leaking.

[1:21:54] And I've ordered the winters up and we just need to get it in the air and get a permit and we're just trying to get a permit and get it fixed and that's all.

[1:22:03] Especially when they showed pictures of all the go, there's all kinds of stuff in the yard.

[1:22:08] Yeah, that's all completely picked up mode now.

[1:22:11] It needs no one against it.

[1:22:12] It needs no one against it.

[1:22:16] Yeah, all that's, yeah, yes.

[1:22:20] We can go over there now if you want to.

[1:22:23] I just have to ask you, sir, thank you.

[1:22:24] Yes, sir.

[1:22:25] Yes, it's all picked up.

[1:22:30] The questions from Mr. Lee?

[1:22:34] So do you have any quotes for the cost of moving it and bringing it up to code?

[1:22:41] Well, the first thing we got to do is get it on the pile.

[1:22:45] And we got to get back with the house mover.

[1:22:48] And it was about $2,000 worth of materials for the stringers and framing, and then he sits

[1:23:00] it up there, and then I need to put some siden and a cover of the floor and put my cabinets

[1:23:11] back into kitchen.

[1:23:12] The walls are painted, everything's electric still run and everything.

[1:23:18] We'll have to check it because the storm washed the house back.

[1:23:23] We'd never had water in our yard up to the in their garden covered grass and since they built

[1:23:33] publics, all the energy that could, the ocean could go in and out, hits that raised seven

[1:23:44] acres or four acres, so it can't disperse, so it mounts up and that's, did my neighbor's

[1:23:52] car wash loose and knocked my house over.

[1:23:56] So anyway, I'm just trying to get it fixed up and if it's not one thing, it's those letters

[1:24:04] are asked for $2,500 for the permit and we were going to pay it and it was on the town letter

[1:24:13] here and so we David finally came down here yesterday because he got a second notice and the town

[1:24:23] it was a scam.

[1:24:26] So we thought that we were okay that our thing had been passed. And then

[1:24:33] we hear that they're changing the rules and I'm scared that changing the rules so they won't

[1:24:38] pass mine. So it's just the torture never stops. It's one thing after another and I'm just trying

[1:24:45] get my house fixed.

[1:24:49] Mr. Wallace, do you have something you like to add with force?

[1:24:53] Mm-hmm.

[1:24:56] So there's Mr. Lee said, excuse me, you know, he's a haste.

[1:25:00] I'm trying to get this property back in place and he's hired me to help him. I've been building here since 1990's. I'm very experienced and you know, we just we just want to move forward. So I'm really hearing more to ask there are any questions you all might have for me.

[1:25:14] I'm going to ask you real quick a question about the permit. So you received a letter on town and letter had that said the permit was approved.

[1:25:24] Yes, sir, I had Mr. Jack to his name on it.

[1:25:26] I would like to send y'all all the copy of it.

[1:25:29] You know it, too, because I brought to the town,

[1:25:31] they told me it was a scandal.

[1:25:33] Yeah, for those of you who aren't aware,

[1:25:35] the applicant who filed for the business license also received

[1:25:39] a request for money to get there.

[1:25:41] It would be wired.

[1:25:43] And they felt the same thing.

[1:25:44] So I think that someone is pulling the public records off of our agenda

[1:25:48] because he thought, and it was the same amount to him, too.

[1:25:51] to ask him to wire $28, $100 yesterday.

[1:25:54] And he's going to go ahead of the board,

[1:25:55] this, this, this, this.

[1:25:56] I think someone is pulling it off

[1:25:58] or, you know, the public information.

[1:26:00] I had, it looked just like some other

[1:26:01] in the town.

[1:26:02] Ask you to watch, ask the applicant to wire money.

[1:26:05] Yeah, well, yes, sir.

[1:26:05] They asked me to do it, $28, $200.

[1:26:08] And but doing, I try to do it.

[1:26:09] It said, I had to do it that day,

[1:26:11] which kind of, put a red flag in there.

[1:26:13] And it says something about our planning commission.

[1:26:16] It's something we don't have.

[1:26:18] There's two thing, it just, I mean,

[1:26:19] It looks.

[1:26:20] Kudos to you for catching that, because I said I had to do it that day as well, that's

[1:26:24] it's all right.

[1:26:25] So I can't bother to tell him.

[1:26:26] Mr. Wallace, if I can ask you, in your professional opinion, as a builder, can this property

[1:26:32] be rehabilitated?

[1:26:35] Yes, sir, I believe so.

[1:26:37] The first thing we'll probably do is bring in the engineer to look at the house and I would

[1:26:41] like for him to inspect the policy.

[1:26:42] I know they were put in and Mr. Lee has all the information we need on that, but I still like

[1:26:48] engineer look at pounds and then also you've got to look at the house and see if we can if we can't

[1:26:52] lift it and put it up on top of the pounds but I don't see why we cannot. I've done several

[1:26:57] of them. I don't see why we cannot but you never do you get an engineer to take it as after

[1:27:03] what you're going to do you you never know 100%. So if the engineer signs off on it then your company

[1:27:08] would start fixing the floor, fixing the walls, fixing the... Yes, it would get raised and start

[1:27:14] make it habitable. Yes sir. We'll bring it back there and compliance. So all the questions

[1:27:20] I've heard are really good, but I think they're getting away from what our task is tonight.

[1:27:27] So my question to you, Mr. Wallace. Do you disagree with the assessment that the cost of repairs

[1:27:36] are going to be more than 50% of the tax value of this property? So I knew as we asked that

[1:27:43] I don't know it attacks value if no way. I don't. I don't recall.

[1:27:47] I say you $6,930 according to Brunswick County.

[1:27:51] It's what I'm sorry.

[1:27:52] $6,930 according to the Brunswick County registry.

[1:27:58] There's the tracking the land out of it.

[1:28:01] It doesn't include the land.

[1:28:02] It's just the structure that's sitting on the ground.

[1:28:05] The county has said it's worth $6,930 and that's what.

[1:28:10] And that's what the owner is being taxed all.

[1:28:14] Wait, you know, you're not going to do it for less than 50% of $6,900, right?

[1:28:20] So you don't, you, you, you, that's in Pasta.

[1:28:21] I mean, you're looking, I mean, I saw that one estimate was 130.

[1:28:25] Yeah.

[1:28:25] And then you're probably looking at 130, 180 somewhere, right?

[1:28:29] Okay. So that, that was my question was.

[1:28:32] The assessment that our hearing officer made is correct.

[1:28:37] That house cannot be repaired for less than 50% of...

[1:28:41] For less than 7,000 dollars a night.

[1:28:43] I mean, you can't.

[1:28:46] If it's only 7,000 dollars, there's no way.

[1:28:49] You know, it's impossible.

[1:28:51] So, thank you for pointing that out.

[1:28:52] That's exactly what we're being asked for tonight,

[1:28:55] as to if we decide to override or to approve the appeal,

[1:29:00] then we disagree with the findings of staff.

[1:29:04] And I just want to make that clear.

[1:29:06] Well, just to make it even more clear, Mr. Lee and Mr. Rollas, what we are asked to do tonight under state statute is to ask the question that Councilwoman Carter just asked to staff went to the site listed items that brought them to that determination that it meets the dilapidated statutory defined definition utilizing that county tax.

[1:29:36] assessment, and then came up with an estimated cost of repairs.

[1:29:42] They made their finding, and they would have been asked our interim town manager.

[1:29:50] He would have been the determining figure in that evaluation, and the exact same question would have been asked of him.

[1:29:57] And again, these are all driven by state structure.

[1:30:01] So, our hands are tied simply to answer, did the previous evaluation either the calculation of the estimated cost of repairs, was that incorrect, so that the final evaluation that it does or does not exceed 50% was incorrect, or is it accurate?

[1:30:23] And so that's the, it's a simple question, it's a hard question given all the other reasons that have been shared but that is the very straightforward question that we're being asked as again dictated by state law not our local ordinances or our personal opinions.

[1:30:42] And just to add a note to that, we're looking at a figure that says estimated cost of repairs, but as we heard the planning manager say, when the assessor, the estimator, reaches a certain point, they're told to just stop and not go any further.

[1:30:57] And if you can repair that house for $130,000 on a sign of contract, somebody tomorrow

[1:31:03] to build a house, because it down here, it just doesn't happen.

[1:31:07] It's going to be way more than $130,000.

[1:31:11] Do we have any more questions for Mr. Walls?

[1:31:16] Thank you.

[1:31:16] Okay.

[1:31:16] Thank you.

[1:31:20] Yeah.

[1:31:20] Well, certainly.

[1:31:21] Thanks.

[1:31:23] I feel like I'm...

[1:31:29] think you guys can either do not or my appeal or turn it down. And I don't think it really

[1:31:40] matters about the evidence is the vote.

[1:31:48] I don't understand what you're saying there.

[1:31:51] I mean, I agree that it's going to cost more than half a $6,900. But it was going to cost

[1:32:00] more than $6,900 bucks. When I got the first permit, the only thing different with the house

[1:32:06] now is they're not going to win this out and I didn't answer some letters.

[1:32:15] The house was more

[1:32:16] than that, then but it was perfectly fine. Everybody else could do it when the hurricane got

[1:32:21] there stormed. I got sick and couldn't catch up. And we understood. I can't afford to tear it down.

[1:32:31] I've got to put it back to where I can,

[1:32:37] I've been living in the Katmoscov Motel and so since then.

[1:32:42] And the town had my phone numbered,

[1:32:44] call me if things were getting this bad

[1:32:48] and they found me dead a couple days before the first hearing.

[1:32:53] So I don't know except that I think that there's not as black

[1:33:00] white is those numbers right there because I think that my appeal can be approved.

[1:33:09] And I'm not saying that town staff did anything wrong, but they looked at it from the point

[1:33:17] of view of being able to go ahead and tear it down.

[1:33:24] Instead of, well, this house, everything's the same as it was after the hurricane.

[1:33:30] What's changed in us?

[1:33:34] I'm staffed for you last?

[1:33:39] I was just going to say that if my presentation and staff report into the record.

[1:33:48] Thank you.

[1:33:49] Taylor, if...

[1:33:51] Any last questions for...

[1:33:53] I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[1:33:56] Excuse me.

[1:33:57] If it is condemned, the town would then tear the property down.

[1:34:02] So, Mr. Lee still has about 60 days or so on his enforcement clock to do the work himself.

[1:34:10] So to demolish the property or remove the property, he can move the property out of town limits.

[1:34:20] He still has time to do that.

[1:34:22] If at the end of that clock, so after we do the hearing now and y'all sign the findings of that,

[1:34:28] the clock, it doesn't restart, but it starts where it left off.

[1:34:32] If, after that time, the property has not been demolished or moved, then yes.

[1:34:38] The town at that point would move forward themselves to have it demolished.

[1:34:44] And then put a link on that lander.

[1:34:46] The cost incurred by the town to do that work would be invoiced to the property owner

[1:34:52] and then after 30 days if it had not been paid then yes, it would be placed as a lane.

[1:34:57] How many days did you say that he has left?

[1:35:00] Here's about 60. 60, 60, 60.

[1:35:05] Is condemnation usually used as a reset button or is it used

[1:35:14] as a taking property button?

[1:35:18] So we're not taking any property. This isn't imminent domain. Mr. Lee still owns the land.

[1:35:29] Any other questions?

[1:35:31] Just one other question Taylor for clarification.

[1:35:34] You showed us that after the hurricane or the hurricane permit was issued December 2021.

[1:35:44] It was a duration of 12 months and so it expired December 2022.

[1:35:50] But after that time, there was no contact from the owner about on the extension.

[1:35:56] and nothing until we started these proceedings.

[1:36:01] As far as I can see in the fall for that property,

[1:36:04] there's nothing.

[1:36:11] Thank you.

[1:36:16] Come back, fine.

[1:36:19] OK.

[1:36:21] So with this time, we make the hearing open.

[1:36:25] Is there further discussion

[1:36:27] between the council members?

[1:36:31] Mayor, I need to come to me.

[1:36:32] I'm going to have to speak.

[1:36:34] I've got to come forward if we want to speak.

[1:36:40] OK.

[1:36:41] As there's no more discussion, I will close the public hearing portion and begin deliberation.

[1:36:54] At this time, you have multiple motions that should possible motions, the council may

[1:36:59] reverse or affirm, hold your partly, or may modify the decision or order a appeal from

[1:37:05] it may make any decision or that is, in its opinion, ought to be made in the matter.

[1:37:10] And to that end, it has all the powers of the public officer.

[1:37:13] All

[1:37:16] right, it will require four members of the Council as necessary to reverse or modify any decision.

[1:37:24] Okay, the Council also has power and passing upon appeals when unnecessary hardships of

[1:37:30] result from carrying out the strict letter of the ordinance to adapt the application of the ordinance to

[1:37:34] the necessities of the case to end that the spirit of the ordinance of the deserve is observed public safety and

[1:37:40] welfare secured and substantial justice done.

[1:37:43] So,

[1:37:48] at this time, do I have any motion or discussion from the council?

[1:37:54] I believe we want to have a pass of motion prior than to have a discussion.

[1:37:59] Well, we need to make a decision, and the decision is, you know, best what's the binding.

[1:38:09] You can discuss all you want after the decision, but the decision is final, once we make a decision.

[1:38:15] We would either have a motion to uphold the hearing officer or to override the hearing officer

[1:38:23] and then a discussion.

[1:38:24] And modify.

[1:38:26] I think there are draft orders to affirm or to reverse in your agenda packets.

[1:38:35] Sorry, just one.

[1:38:35] If you do not have to pass a motion first before we can have a discussion.

[1:38:41] I mean, someone can make a motion to reverse or to, because this is a hearing and I have other discussion.

[1:38:49] Yeah. And this one, the discussion is prior to the motion.

[1:38:57] So that I'm clear, because this is the first time any of us have really done this.

[1:39:01] We're all learning as we go.

[1:39:04] It's really not about what our hearts or heads think.

[1:39:07] It is the black and white by state statues.

[1:39:11] If the repairs exceed that 50% value,

[1:39:16] we don't really have a lot of wiggle room,

[1:39:20] because I personally am very torn by it.

[1:39:21] This is something I take very serious,

[1:39:24] but I also realized that there's some state statues

[1:39:26] involved here, that my heart didn't really get to.

[1:39:32] Bob, your thoughts on it?

[1:39:33] Really, the choices are affirmed and I commodify somehow.

[1:39:37] Now, you know, what kind of modification would be in order, if any, in order, would be, I think, a council discussion,

[1:39:48] you have the evidence in front of you.

[1:39:50] I might may.

[1:39:51] Certainly.

[1:39:52] Bob, the phrase on necessary hardship.

[1:39:57] How does that enter into this if we work?

[1:40:00] Number rule that can dim the property tonight. But we think there's unnecessary hardship on a gentleman

[1:40:07] that's gone through COVID, gone through losing his daughter, gone through different things.

[1:40:11] That might be a basis for some kind of modification. And you know, you're necessary hardship

[1:40:18] in this context is different than the necessary hardship in the context of a board of adjustment

[1:40:24] being asked to grant the variance, you know, it's not the same thing because the circumstances

[1:40:29] are different. You know, they're still supposed to be some hardship that's attached to the

[1:40:35] condition of the property. Personal hardship is not necessarily a basis for the determination

[1:40:41] of unnecessary hardship, because it's separated from the condition of the property. Is it not true

[1:40:48] that every property comes to be condemned.

[1:40:51] Once it gets to that point, it's value is only $6,000,000,

[1:40:55] so every property that comes before a board to be condemned.

[1:41:00] Well, so I'm not sure if it's $15%.

[1:41:01] Well, I'm sure you.

[1:41:02] I mean, it's possible that depends on how damaged the property is.

[1:41:10] I mean, here, again, you have in front of you photographs

[1:41:13] and testimony about what the condition of the property

[1:41:18] was or was on April 6th and presumably is close to today.

[1:41:24] And the town has has nothing to do with the value establishing the value.

[1:41:30] Brunswick County sent an assessor out and the assessor determined the value and property owners can appeal.

[1:41:40] That's right.

[1:41:40] So Brunswick County, the determination of value of your property, which you have to do that within so many days.

[1:41:46] And so the town didn't establish this number.

[1:41:50] This isn't a low-ball number that the town came up with, the county.

[1:41:56] And the statute does provide that it is the tax value of the property as it appears

[1:42:00] on the latest assessment role.

[1:42:04] So we don't have, we as a staff don't have a authority to change that.

[1:42:13] It is what it is currently.

[1:42:18] So even if we were to modify the determination,

[1:42:25] how does one, what would a modification look?

[1:42:28] Would we give, for example, instead of 60 more days to execute the either removal

[1:42:39] or demolition could we give six months to work on the property, but there wouldn't be

[1:42:48] a new tax assessment that would then potentially increase the value of the property to

[1:42:55] then get him closer to the 50% and outside of the. So I guess you're offering a modification

[1:43:02] about what modification could possibly help a hardship.

[1:43:06] It seems like a circle, a little kind of whirlpool.

[1:43:12] Yeah, because if we were to say, here's 10 more years,

[1:43:19] that the extension would just be extending the previous finding,

[1:43:23] which was the result of that finding,

[1:43:25] which you have to demolish or remove.

[1:43:27] It doesn't give theoretically, he could rebuild this home,

[1:43:31] And at the end of the 10 years, he would still have to demolish it or remove it.

[1:43:35] Right, and there is a finding that could have been made that's less than the

[1:43:40] lapidation. That is if the cost to repair was less than 50% of the taxable value of the property.

[1:43:49] Then a different order could have been made. But again, we're stuck with the fact that we have here.

[1:43:59] You know, might the board say, you know, we'll give you six months to bring it up to

[1:44:06] stuff and if you haven't done that then, you know, I have 30 days to demolish, the board might

[1:44:11] be able to say that.

[1:44:12] It's not appeal by anybody.

[1:44:15] Can I ask a question about that if that, because I don't want us to go down that path.

[1:44:20] If we were to give that timeline, is it inappropriate as to ask the homeowner just he

[1:44:26] have the finances in order to do that, because that one is contingent to the other.

[1:44:32] If we give him time, but he still doesn't have the financial ability and I'm not speaking

[1:44:37] for your financial.

[1:44:38] I'm just trying to ask the question, is that inappropriate question for us to ask?

[1:44:42] Well, I think it's a fair question to ask, because you have to see how realistic it

[1:44:49] So to that point, if there's any chance that we're going to look for some kind of modification,

[1:44:55] I'm going to ask for the hearing to be reopened because I have a law.

[1:45:00] A lot of questions. Agreed. Well, it would be required to bring it up to us now.

[1:45:05] To who we have the option to hold the hearing a decision on this until the next council meeting?

[1:45:16] Or do we have to act tonight?

[1:45:18] You don't have to act tonight. The record is closed, though.

[1:45:22] So there's no room for the introduction of new evidence or testimony.

[1:45:27] If the council needs time to kind of turn it around in their minds and then come back next time and be ready to make a decision, I mean that's perfectly legal.

[1:45:40] When we open the hearing for new evidence at the next council because there's no need to us around.

[1:45:47] We're all in a learning curve.

[1:45:48] What, while you're here tonight, you could make a,

[1:45:53] someone can make a motion to reconsider the motion

[1:45:56] to close the hearing, I would leave the hearing open,

[1:46:01] continue the hearing until you, next regularly scheduled meeting.

[1:46:04] I'm just thinking about this procedurally.

[1:46:06] I mean, it's still, I still ever talk in some ways,

[1:46:09] but I'm not saying right.

[1:46:10] Yeah, I'm not suggesting that we do reopen the hearing.

[1:46:13] I'm just saying,

[1:46:16] if we're going to talk about something

[1:46:19] besides, I guess, or no, then I have a lot of questions.

[1:46:22] But people in terms of appreciating process,

[1:46:25] if we were to reconsider the motion to close and essentially

[1:46:30] bring it to an ex-meeting, we don't

[1:46:33] we continue to not discuss this topic amongst ourselves

[1:46:36] or anyone else, just like any other question.

[1:46:40] And I think Councilman Carter, maybe,

[1:46:43] is getting at is if something was paused and reopened,

[1:46:47] There would be a lot of questions I assume as to what it means to bring this property up to code and documents outlining a dollar figure and sensitive public questions being asked of a resident and their ability to pay in a timely manner just trying to outline the delicacy of what we would be discussing in public.

[1:47:20] If I could, I think, you know, to the applicant, I mean, you have been through Helen

[1:47:23] back with health issues and family issues and you know, my heart goes out to you and

[1:47:30] we've all, you know, have had a huge cross to bear individually as well.

[1:47:35] My concern is the pollings were placed five years ago.

[1:47:39] And if we should be decided to delay this for six months or year, then we could

[1:47:44] potential you back in the same exact situation, and I think that five years has been sufficient,

[1:47:52] eight letters, multiple hearings, and if we just continue this, I just don't think we're actually

[1:47:58] going to come to fruition to an endgame. So I would like to make a motion to approve the ordinance

[1:48:06] ordering further proceedings under the purpose of the town of Oak Island, minimum housing code,

[1:48:10] in general statute 160D article 12 as presented.

[1:48:16] Second.

[1:48:17] Okay, we do have a motion on the table.

[1:48:22] All those in favor of that motion?

[1:48:24] It's her discussion.

[1:48:26] Yep.

[1:48:27] We can have more discussion.

[1:48:28] We were kicking around a modification.

[1:48:33] I'd like to ask Mr. Wallace if six months if he could accomplish what all needs to be accomplished in six months.

[1:48:40] So we can't do that.

[1:48:47] That's part of the here which is closed, okay, okay,

[1:48:55] other discussion?

[1:49:01] Well, I can appreciate Bob's point and we may end up back here and this might irritate some people.

[1:49:20] Yeah, you say it.

[1:49:25] It's okay.

[1:49:25] I want to be able to live with my decision.

[1:49:31] So I would like us to reconsider to maybe modify this. Sorry, y'all.

[1:49:38] If nobody else is willing, that's fine.

[1:49:40] But I would like us to consider that.

[1:49:45] I'd like to consider that, too.

[1:49:46] This bottom.

[1:49:48] I see y'all's point.

[1:49:49] I really do.

[1:49:50] My heart, when I read the conditions of what has happened since 2021 or since the storm.

[1:49:57] It breaks my heart.

[1:50:00] It's unfortunate, and it's sad.

[1:50:05] We as a council have held Taylor and Taylor staffs, I think, to the fire over code enforcement. We have beat them to death. What have you done about this property? What have you done about that property? And we continue to make it a priority for this council. If we don't uphold this tonight,

[1:50:32] I don't want to ever hear anybody say anything else about minimum housing or code violations.

[1:50:43] It's a sad situation, but the evidence is clear this is gone on for six years.

[1:50:56] Understood.

[1:50:57] Any other comments?

[1:50:59] Okay, we do have a motion on the table to affirm the decision.

[1:51:03] All those in favor?

[1:51:05] All those opposed? Motion does pass. No, no, there's nothing. No, you're affirming. Not modified.

[1:51:14] You're going to be a four vote today and get four votes.

[1:51:19] I thought you don't need no votes.

[1:51:21] Only for votes should modify the reverse.

[1:51:24] Correct. Correct.

[1:51:25] To affirm you only need a majority.

[1:51:27] It's a simple majority to affirm to reverse or modify is a super majority.

[1:51:32] Yes.

[1:51:32] So, if those pass, three, two.

[1:51:45] That does conclude the quasi-judicial hearing process.

[1:51:48] I'm not sure if the process for this.

[1:51:51] We do have an order.

[1:51:52] Does that need to circulate its counsel for them to,

[1:51:55] from, at this point?

[1:51:55] I think it would be best to have it circulated among Council

[1:51:58] just to make sure they're all comfortable with it.

[1:52:04] Take one and pass one down please.

[1:52:06] One, two, three,

[1:52:13] two,

[1:52:30] three, two.

[1:52:30] I appreciate which you're saying.

[1:52:37] All right.

[1:52:42] With that, we do continue on to item three, consideration of approval for an ordinance ordering

[1:52:48] further proceedings under the purpose of the town of Oak Island, minimum housing code, General

[1:52:52] statute, 160 D. R. Goodswell.

[1:52:57] Do I need, I'm sorry. Can you on the second floor?

[1:53:00] Do I need some kind of action from Council to a firm this order or?

[1:53:04] I think that you ought to approve the form of the order. We need to approve the form of the

[1:53:10] signed and filed, and that would mark the time for someone who wants anyone wants to appeal,

[1:53:17] the time to appeal begins when the signed order is filed with the clerk.

[1:53:27] So we do need a motion to approve the form of this order.

[1:53:32] Okay.

[1:53:33] So moved.

[1:53:35] One second.

[1:53:36] Back in.

[1:53:37] Okay.

[1:53:37] All those in favor?

[1:53:41] All those in both.

[1:53:44] Those in passes.

[1:53:48] That brings us to the next.

[1:53:52] And I just had a question about that order.

[1:53:56] Will that be signed tonight so that I can provide a game?

[1:54:00] So our next one is going to be a minimum housing ordinance adoption.

[1:54:05] So we're at the end of the minimum housing process for this address.

[1:54:08] And it's 43.08 East O'Connor drive.

[1:54:13] So again, some cases, right?

[1:54:15] Notice of violations refers mail to this property owner

[1:54:18] in September of 2020.

[1:54:20] At least 13 notice of violation letters

[1:54:22] to the property owner with net response.

[1:54:26] Alternatively, we pursued the case as minimum housing in early 2026.

[1:54:32] An administrative warrant was executed on April 7th

[1:54:34] and staff inspected the interior of the structure.

[1:54:38] The minimum housing hearing was held on April 29th.

[1:54:41] The owners did not attend, however, several adjacent property owners did.

[1:54:46] After reviewing the evidence, the hearing officer found the property to be in a dilapidated condition.

[1:54:51] Again, dilapidated means the cost of require repairs exceed 50% of the tax value of the structure, and that does not include...

[1:55:00] The tax value of this structure was $128,940. The estimated cost of repairs was $94,666. And again, once they

[1:55:13] hit a certain number, we tell them to stop. And it's not an in-depth estimate. It's a broad view.

[1:55:20] The order was issued in order of the demolition of the structure of the 90 days. Again, the deadline

[1:55:25] was today, August 18th, the condition of the property or why they received that violation.

[1:55:32] They are found to failure to maintain heating facilities in a safe and good working condition,

[1:55:37] failure to maintain electrical fixtures, equipment and wiring in a state of good repair.

[1:55:41] Failure to maintain a roof, the roof was allowing water intrusion and it was damaging the walls in the floors.

[1:55:47] Failure to maintain sanitary facilities in a good working condition, failure to provide hot and cold water supply,

[1:55:52] failure to maintain property in a sanitary condition, also there's overgrown vegetation.

[1:55:58] The structure is barely visible from the street and it's not accessible by a vehicle.

[1:56:02] There is no driveway because it's surrounded by vegetation.

[1:56:06] Additionally, evidence of trespassing was observed on the property at the time of our inspection.

[1:56:11] Paraphenalia associated with illegal drug use was observed inside the home.

[1:56:17] Here's some pictures of the outside of the property.

[1:56:19] Those were taken today, so that's what it looks like right now.

[1:56:21] That's the front of the house on the left, and then on the right appears to be like some sort of path that people were taking to get to the property and there's some police tape.

[1:56:35] Here's a few pictures of the inside, on the far left is the kitchen.

[1:56:40] You can kind of see that there's vines and things growing through the kitchen cabinets.

[1:56:45] The middle picture is one of the holes in the ceiling, and it goes all the way out through the roof, and then the third is some of the drum paraphernal that was observed.

[1:56:56] On the left again, there's another hole, Mr. Brook checking it out with the flashlight, one of the bathrooms in disrepair, and then that picture showed up a little dark on here, but it kind of shows the unsanitary state of the inside of the house.

[1:57:12] And that's about it on this one.

[1:57:15] I don't think any of the hindrins or their agent are here.

[1:57:22] Just a little bit of background, we have been in contact with the family's real estate agent and they do have an attorney.

[1:57:31] They are looking to actively sell the property so that they don't incur the cost of having to demo the property.

[1:57:38] One of the family members, there are several of them that haven't inherited the property, one of them is under age.

[1:57:45] And so they had to go through the guardian at light and process and that's taking a little

[1:57:49] bit longer than they expected.

[1:57:52] They had emailed requesting more time.

[1:57:54] And I have thought that someone was going to attend the meeting to speak to you all but

[1:57:58] it doesn't look like anyone's here.

[1:58:00] But they have requested at least a staff more time to finish out that process.

[1:58:07] And did they ask for us?

[1:58:10] I think I heard four months.

[1:58:11] They did not ask for specific time, but in my conversations with the town attorney, the town attorney recommended it out four months.

[1:58:22] And that is to get the underage guardian had a lot of him set up.

[1:58:26] The real estate agent indicated they only needed a few more weeks per the courts to have that process finished out and then they would be looking to go forward with the sale of the property.

[1:58:40] But Taylor will a couple of questions, so you're talking to the real estate broker, but not to any family member.

[1:58:47] The family members are all on the email chain. There's one family member in particular, his name is Shane, who has been late since the order has been given, who is more communicative.

[1:58:58] We were able to get a hold of him, by phone, and he's also, they had this property, had

[1:59:05] some back bills with the utilities and whatnot.

[1:59:08] He was the one who paid those to get him current.

[1:59:12] Could you go back to your first line if you know what I'm going

[1:59:17] to do?

[1:59:18] It's a very similar to the case we just heard there were 13 notices of isolation, no response

[1:59:24] to any of those.

[1:59:25] No response to any of the letters, but, um, or to the minimum housing, hearing notices,

[1:59:30] on however, because one of the family members had paid the utility bill at the same time this

[1:59:37] was happening. When he paid it online, we were able to capture his credit card in phone

[1:59:42] number and we called him and he had no idea that the property was in the state that it was,

[1:59:49] he told us he hadn't been to the property in like over 20 years. But once we talked to him and

[1:59:56] told him what we found seemed agreeable to, you know.

[2:00:00] So getting the other family members on board and making them aware, and he provided the addresses of all those other family members too, so that I can provide notice to all of them.

[2:00:09] So until that point, the letters that you were sending, we're going somewhere.

[2:00:13] They were going to, they were going to the right address, it's just for the, I think he's the husband of the deceased who owned the house.

[2:00:23] But there are three sons, adult sons, who also have inherited a portion of this property

[2:00:31] whose addresses we did not have.

[2:00:34] I found out later that one of the adult sons lives with the father, so they would have been

[2:00:40] getting those letters.

[2:00:42] So other than the fact that one of the beneficiaries is a child and you have to set it up.

[2:00:48] Is there any difference between this situation and the situation that we previously

[2:00:53] discuss. This situation, they have not expressed any interest in repairing the house to us.

[2:01:02] I think they're looking to sell. So, Senator, the similarity with this in the last one

[2:01:10] is this property should be condemned in your opinion. However, you've talked to the people and your

[2:01:19] office has chosen to ask for a four month extension for these people. Is that correct?

[2:01:27] I'm not requesting a four month extension.

[2:01:31] No, you're.

[2:01:32] They, the, the real estate representative of the property owner is requesting extension.

[2:01:39] And the family says that they have enough time to set up the garden at a lot of them.

[2:01:44] They can then sign off on selling the property and they're not trying to hold anything up. They're just trying to get their ducks in order.

[2:01:52] I don't really want to comment on the transaction part of that because I, you know, really

[2:01:58] stay and go a lot of different ways. I don't want to speak for what any of one family members

[2:02:04] attitudes might be towards the sale.

[2:02:05] But it wouldn't be a wild conclusion to make that they are doing some form of due diligence

[2:02:11] related to how you, that is a step one that would even allow them to sell this piece of property.

[2:02:19] Yeah, getting a real estate agent putting listing it would be the first set.

[2:02:23] And so that's a clear distinction from the previous.

[2:02:27] Yes.

[2:02:27] You know, the hearing of April 2019 said several adjacent property owners attended.

[2:02:31] Did they comment?

[2:02:32] They did.

[2:02:34] And what were their comments of people?

[2:02:35] Most of them were just kind of interested to hear what was going on with the property,

[2:02:39] because it isn't a state that it's in.

[2:02:42] I don't really recall any of them having complaints so much.

[2:02:46] they were just more so interested in what was happening.

[2:02:53] If you don't have a situation like you've got rodents from coming into other people's yard

[2:02:58] as far as you know, because of the condition of this property.

[2:03:02] We did actually, we did get, I think, one who said, I'm not sure if it was rodents, but he did

[2:03:08] have some complaints about the vegetation itself and treating onto his property because of

[2:03:14] in the height of it, he's not able to manage it without going on their property and so it's kind of put into a weird spot where he's got this like overhang that he can't manage.

[2:03:27] But this property has attracted trespassers and drug paraphernalia.

[2:03:32] I didn't put the picture in here. The doors were locked when we went. The police officer had to kick it in.

[2:03:39] but once we got in because we couldn't access the side of the house and we went through the

[2:03:44] interior to get to the side we could see where the screen in porch had been like a whole

[2:03:48] had been ripped out of it and that was what the police officer identified as likely how they were

[2:03:52] getting into the house. On an interesting thing that these folks were looking at six years again

[2:04:01] these folks chose not to respond to the town in any way until they got a notice that said

[2:04:08] You've got X number of days to tear your house down and we're going to tear it down for you and send you a bill

[2:04:15] And that seems to be the only thing that got there attention

[2:04:21] Well, I mean that correct it also was six years that the town set on 13 notices a violation before

[2:04:27] eight shows to pursue minimum housing as a strong policy or

[2:04:34] and force that policy that likely was on the books.

[2:04:38] Yeah, minimum housing has we have an adopted minimum housing ordinance.

[2:04:42] I just don't think the town had a minimum housing program code enforcement prior to me being here.

[2:04:47] I had not been enforcing minimum housing and and tell me it's unfortunate.

[2:04:51] But if you don't know the history behind our former talent attorney, let's see when I go have a comment.

[2:04:56] No, I very fair.

[2:04:58] I just to me this is a very

[2:05:00] I don't want to step on any, I guess we'll still discuss. I would make a motion that we approve the ordinance ordering the further proceedings under the purpose of the done of Oak Island minimum housing code and General Statue 160D Article 12. Subject 2 and I would propose a two month extension. I don't know if that's the right verbiage.

[2:05:26] I don't imagine if they were able to sell it, if they sell this, that the new buyer would somehow try to, you know, fix everything instead of demolish it to begin with even if the property sells the order stands, they can't decide to repair it and I think that protects the town and the neighbors as well that someone attempting to fix something that staff has in my opinion rightfully decided is dilapidated and

[2:05:56] I don't want to say it's not fixable, but it is dilapidated. Okay, that's helpful.

[2:06:01] So my motion is the I approve the motion to approve the ordinance furthering proceedings under the purpose of the town of Oak Island minimum housing code in general statute 160d article to as presented subject to a two month extension.

[2:06:19] I'll second that.

[2:06:21] And what is your reasoning behind a two month extension?

[2:06:24] I think if this collective now, I'm making assumptions and that you can criticize that, that's fine.

[2:06:35] If they are, if I can make a general assumption that this group of property owners are taking steps to be able to offload this piece of property by selling it.

[2:06:48] And then it will be demolished.

[2:06:51] I don't believe we should add an additional,

[2:06:54] you need to demolish this,

[2:06:56] why guess 90 days is over two months,

[2:06:59] so maybe we keep it to the 90 days.

[2:07:02] But I see movement and does this at all impact a sale?

[2:07:09] I'm not quite sure.

[2:07:10] It shouldn't, because you said it, it follows through.

[2:07:13] The order stand, it runs with the land.

[2:07:15] So whether it changes hands, changes ownership,

[2:07:18] Who ever owns that property has to comply with the order?

[2:07:23] No, no, I answered your question, and I agree with your question after talking it through.

[2:07:29] I want to do the original modify your motion to bring it to you.

[2:07:33] I want to discuss, because to me there is a distinction here.

[2:07:36] So I just want to ensure we, and again, I appreciate that a better or a, a, a, the type of residence.

[2:07:48] and property owners that, you know, I think we all would love to have as our neighbors.

[2:07:53] It shouldn't take 13 notices of violation or minimum housing evaluation to be placed on

[2:08:01] your property before you start taking accountability for very clear violations.

[2:08:06] But I view this group of property owners were folks who were inheriting this property

[2:08:11] as taking steps to improve it, i.e. sell it, and then likely demolish it.

[2:08:17] So to the extent, I'll resume my motion, but to the extent that ordering the demolition within 90 days,

[2:08:30] we feel in our discussion could somehow impact the speed in which they could sell this.

[2:08:35] I don't think it would impact the fact that there's somehow a minor involved.

[2:08:39] Then I would like I would request our motion to address that concern, and if there's no concern after we discuss it,

[2:08:45] and I'm okay with ordering it as it was presented.

[2:08:49] So the way I'm looking at your two-month extension.

[2:08:53] First of all, I don't think you're gonna find a realtor

[2:08:56] who's gonna say, aw, I'll only list that house for two months.

[2:09:00] Cause at the end of two months, if it doesn't sale,

[2:09:02] we're right back where we are night.

[2:09:06] The intent of mine was that it's ordered,

[2:09:10] and at two months, I guess then the 90 days would kick in.

[2:09:14] so we wouldn't bring it back. There are many days expired today. Okay then then I think it's important to

[2:09:21] extend it

[2:09:25] for what reason.

[2:09:29] Sorry I had something in my throat. I couldn't think of me around looking at.

[2:09:32] So a quick thing that the demolition of the structure was ordered to be completed by today.

[2:09:37] Today. Okay. So how many, oh you're right, how many family members are involved?

[2:09:42] I'm trying to follow those. I think I want to say five, but that might be wrong. I know

[2:09:48] There's three adult brothers, and then I think one of them has children that had an ownership interest.

[2:09:55] And Taylor, did they understand the urgency of tonight's meeting?

[2:10:00] They emailed a few times, so it did appear to me that they understood.

[2:10:06] We were talking about the hearing was held in August. That was four months ago.

[2:10:12] And I do want to note that on that 90 day notice part of it, they actually have had longer than 90 days, because I have sent the order right after we did the hearing.

[2:10:24] that was before y'all, sorry, the board, the council amended our procedures.

[2:10:32] So after the procedures were amended, I sent them a second order that said, due to recent

[2:10:39] change in the ordinance, you now have 90 days from this state.

[2:10:44] So technically they have had longer than 90.

[2:10:47] And to appreciate the process, sorry for all the questions, to appreciate the process.

[2:10:51] we approve this today, the town doesn't step in to perform or contract out the actual demolition until the end of 90 days.

[2:11:02] At which point, once completed, a lean is placed on the property.

[2:11:06] But we wouldn't, they have 90 days to demolish themselves.

[2:11:11] And that's when the town then would step in if they failed to do it by the end of the 90 days.

[2:11:15] Are you adding on 90 days? Because we're at the end of the day now.

[2:11:19] The deadline was today.

[2:11:22] We're helping help us this way then if the deadline was today and if we uphold the hearing

[2:11:30] officers finding what happens next and what is the timeline in which it happens.

[2:11:36] The town can move forward with the demolition.

[2:11:39] It would be a matter of me likely finding a contractor to do the work.

[2:11:44] The town paying for that work, just like the other one, once the work is completed and

[2:11:49] receive an invoice that I then create an invoice to that property owner. They have 30 days to pay.

[2:11:55] If they don't pay within 30 days, I formally hand it off to our tax person Danielle. It's usually

[2:12:03] me who actually goes to the courthouse and does it, though, but I could put it lean on the property

[2:12:07] for that amount. Let's say theoretically the property doesn't sell. After a certain period of

[2:12:15] the town could decide to move on a foreclosure to recoup that money, but if the property sells,

[2:12:22] the town would just get, get their part of it, is how it should work.

[2:12:27] Hey, they're just like the last situation. If the town were to knock down that building,

[2:12:35] the airs, the 8 or 9 or 10 airs that are out there, they still own that man.

[2:12:40] He's still selling.

[2:12:41] Yeah, when was the knock-down building?

[2:12:44] I felt sorry in the last hearing for a man who lives here and has that taken care of business very well, but he came here tonight to say, I'm going to try very hard to take care of business, give me one more chance.

[2:12:56] I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for people that haven't been here 20 years who live out of state and are saying, give us some more time.

[2:13:04] And didn't come to this year in the night to say, let me explain our side to you.

[2:13:08] I do just want to say that they most of them do live in the state, they just don't live in

[2:13:12] Oak Island, they're in the Charlotte area.

[2:13:15] To your point, I mean, 13 letters, it didn't come to the April hearing, and for us to give

[2:13:21] any kind of extension, you know, I'd say, you know, my recommendations, we just move

[2:13:26] vote on this, and they still own the property, and then they can figure it out.

[2:13:30] That's where we get to land value.

[2:13:32] A builder will be thankful for the house that's not down because they want to build a big

[2:13:37] $2,500 for the house on the floor.

[2:13:39] And to echo Councilman Carter's comments is we have been all over Taylor.

[2:13:45] We, as an entity, to 0.01% of the homes in Oak Island that have got allowed themselves

[2:13:52] to get in this condition to have staff come in and to move forward to make recommendations

[2:13:57] and to improve these.

[2:13:59] They are eye source and it's not fair to their neighbors to allow this to continue to happen.

[2:14:04] And, again, in my case, this is pretty black and white.

[2:14:10] Look, like you wanted to say something, so it's only for you.

[2:14:12] And maybe this has already been made clear.

[2:14:14] The difference between this appeal, or this matter, and the last one,

[2:14:19] is that in the last case, Mr. Lee and Mr. Wallace appealed,

[2:14:22] so that's suspended the 90-day period from running.

[2:14:26] In this case, there was no appeals, so that 90-day periods started running on,

[2:14:30] the people whatever.

[2:14:33] Or help.

[2:14:34] They can feel this.

[2:14:35] This.

[2:14:36] The town could go ahead and start demolition tomorrow if the board of the council approve the order today.

[2:14:44] All right.

[2:14:45] Council on Brown, are you still?

[2:14:47] No.

[2:14:47] This has been helpful.

[2:14:49] Okay.

[2:14:49] And apologies for getting the deadline.

[2:14:51] No.

[2:14:52] In a curve.

[2:14:53] Oh, sure.

[2:14:54] So I will then.

[2:14:56] Excuse me.

[2:14:57] I will make a motion to approve the ordinance ordering.

[2:14:59] .

[2:15:00] Further proceedings under the purpose of the tone of Oak Island minimum housing code, general statute 160d article 12 as presented.

[2:15:09] Second, okay. All in favour? Bye, well.

[2:15:16] Okay, we have one last item for this evening. It's the consideration of the facade, improvement grant, program policy updates.

[2:15:24] Good

[2:15:29] evening Mayor and council.

[2:15:32] I have a quick presentation here about the solid improvement grant.

[2:15:37] So the facade program provides matching reimbursement grants to encourage private investment

[2:15:42] in our commercial properties and improve the appearance of O'Giles commercial corridors.

[2:15:49] The program was provided up to 50% of eligible costs with awards up to $10,000 as the max.

[2:15:57] So, the idea here is to improve our properties by leveraging the private investment dollars

[2:16:03] and strengthening our the appearance of our commercial corridors.

[2:16:10] So, there's been two years of the program.

[2:16:13] There were four projects completed in the first fiscal year and five in the second year

[2:16:19] for total of nine projects and it totaled $59,230 in 12 cents in town funding.

[2:16:28] with the total investment being 124,476 dollars and 24 cents of total investments, the town and the private, so we've gotten that total investment.

[2:16:42] And you'll see before and after pictures here of different projects along the way.

[2:16:48] So what things did the program find?

[2:16:51] Across the two years it did building repairs and exterior renovations, exterior painting,

[2:16:58] some signage, landscaping, some parking and driveway improvements,

[2:17:04] siding, as you can see in this one, and some site cleanup. So all things

[2:17:09] designed to improve the appearance of our commercial areas.

[2:17:19] So why update the

[2:17:20] program? This was a new program two years ago, so it's some of the things

[2:17:24] are to create a more predictable annual funding cycle, provide a fair way to

[2:17:30] peer projects when requested exceed available funding,

[2:17:35] clarify eligibility and documentation requirements,

[2:17:39] strengthen some of the contractor quote requirements,

[2:17:43] and establish a consistent completion timeline

[2:17:46] and approve accountability and some of the closed out

[2:17:48] procedures.

[2:17:50] So all of the changes are kind of about the lessons learned

[2:17:52] in the first two years at the program.

[2:17:57] One of the main things is the addition

[2:18:00] of evaluation criteria. So here is what about one tier. The largest part of the criteria

[2:18:11] will be the overall visual improvement of the proposed project. So that's really about

[2:18:17] that specific site, how much it will improve the project. And then the enhancement of

[2:18:23] the surrounding commercial area. So that will take into account where it is the project and where

[2:18:29] in the town.

[2:18:31] The quality and completeness of the project and the application,

[2:18:34] project readiness, and the ability to be completed by the

[2:18:38] deadline, consistency with town design, standards,

[2:18:43] the level of private investment, and the use of

[2:18:48] a filing contractors or businesses when practical is the lowest

[2:18:51] piece of this, but a consideration that we'd like to have.

[2:18:57] So the revised timeline will include an application window from October and November and then in December

[2:19:06] will evaluate the applications and announce the ones that will be awarded in December so that

[2:19:13] between January and April the projects that were approved can take place and by May 1 have all of that

[2:19:21] documentation and the projects complete kind of before the season is really ramping back up.

[2:19:30] And so this, this last slide just kind of points out all of the changes made in the program.

[2:19:36] So again, the application window for October and November applications will all be reviewed together.

[2:19:44] Instead of a on a rolling basis, the addition of the evaluation criteria and the clarifies that the property owner must be an active commercial use.

[2:19:56] So before it was kind of just the commercials.

[2:19:59] So

[2:20:00] But we're specifically saying not residential, it has to be a commercial use in the commercial zone.

[2:20:06] And arms link, quote, requirement. So we've had some questions through the program where, where a wheelchair had applied and they may have a contractor that worked with them.

[2:20:16] But we want to create some distance in that. So, an arms link, quote, requirement.

[2:20:22] to encourage a guideline businesses, contractors, where practical, and the uniform may first

[2:20:28] deadlines so that we can complete it all before the end of the fiscal year.

[2:20:33] Both years we had projects that weren't done by the end of the fiscal year and so that had

[2:20:38] been another thing that we wanted to change.

[2:20:43] And that is the end.

[2:20:44] I will keep this here and answer any questions.

[2:20:46] All right.

[2:20:46] Any questions?

[2:20:47] Well, I think this is one of the best programs we've ever put forward in Oak Island.

[2:20:53] It's a carrot, it's not a stick, right?

[2:20:55] And one of the good things about it, it's connecting the Oak Island community with the owners of these properties,

[2:21:01] not the businesses that are running it, it's the owners who are somewhat disconnected from us.

[2:21:06] So it really helps establish that connectivity between the business owners and town of Oak Island.

[2:21:10] my only concern is that this is a program to for small businesses, right, to support small businesses,

[2:21:20] but yet we only have five points if they use a local contractor and I would like to see us

[2:21:27] make that significantly greater. We want to encourage our business owners here to use other business

[2:21:33] owners in Oak Island and keep that business here within the Oak Island town limits.

[2:21:39] And I'm saying we have to do it tonight, but is that something that you could tweak?

[2:21:46] I'd come back to us and see if you can't pump that number up a little bit.

[2:21:52] Yeah.

[2:21:53] I too am a huge fan of this, and I've enjoyed working on it with you, and us coming up with that encouraging

[2:22:00] Oguiling Contractors.

[2:22:01] I think that's a great point.

[2:22:04] So I also think it's important, I just sort of noticed it now.

[2:22:09] If you look at the pictures of the businesses that have taken advantage of it, for example,

[2:22:16] you have cool stuff, you had, I know, Skipper Realty, I think it also encourages a lot

[2:22:25] of the neighbors.

[2:22:26] You see cool stuff back in 2425 updated their facade right next door you had hope chest paint their front building about a year later.

[2:22:37] You have Skipper Realty, they laid that beautiful rock down and that strip sort of next to them.

[2:22:44] They painted their outside.

[2:22:46] I think it encourages others to follow suit because the difference in appearance probably is a lot more apparent.

[2:22:55] And whether they choose or go through the hoops to enjoy this benefit,

[2:23:00] I think it sort of presents a two-fold great benefit for the town, both the individual business owner,

[2:23:06] but it also sort of encourages their neighbors to look for ways they can improve this map.

[2:23:12] So I'm very much in favor of this.

[2:23:15] Can you just help clarify for me how the program works because I know a lot of our businesses are in least spaces.

[2:23:26] So, obviously, they can't do something to a property they don't own.

[2:23:31] Does the process that they have, they get the buy in from the owner?

[2:23:37] Does the owner have to apply or does the business apply or how does that work?

[2:23:41] We've had both. They're required to have permission from the owner if it is the business that's applying and I've seen it

[2:23:49] And you know one project where the owner was paying for it and then others where the business was doing it. It has kind of depended on their relationships

[2:23:58] I will say we've had

[2:24:01] I have many more meetings of people interested than the nine projects that have been completed a lot of the times

[2:24:08] it's where the businesses interested and do it and not the owner. So that is certainly something

[2:24:15] we've come up against. Yeah, I would certainly say that's the biggest hurdle to this program

[2:24:20] is that most of our businesses in the commercial district do not own their businesses. And it's great

[2:24:27] if we could get some owners involved like Bob said, but unfortunately we have some pretty check

[2:24:34] owners as well that you know just don't care at this point, but I do love the

[2:24:39] pride. The program, you know, we kind of developed this while I was on the

[2:24:42] business advisory board. I do like the flex the point system. I think that's a

[2:24:48] good change. Yeah, I just wish we could figure out how to engage, you know,

[2:24:55] because when we launched it, I remember calling every owner. I mean, you and I

[2:24:58] had that conversation.

[2:25:00] I was texting and I'm like, hey, take advantage in so many of them were like, hey, my owner won't even let me change the color of my mailbox. You know, much less do this. So I wish we could just figure out a way to make

[2:25:15] it.

[2:25:18] Since we have the tax records of the owners, I mean, have we done an outreach campaign to them to make them aware of this program?

[2:25:24] We have, there are some things in our economic development strategic plan that you guys adopted about property and are outreach.

[2:25:34] So I'm not specific to this program, but we have to continue working on that more.

[2:25:40] And this program would be part of that.

[2:25:45] I can't remember the differentiation of this.

[2:25:49] say there is a property owner like the one that was on Long Beach Road because I did not

[2:25:54] realize they had done the grant. If there is a property owner that owns multiple units,

[2:26:00] can they apply for it for each? Like let's say there's four storefronts in their complex. Can

[2:26:07] they apply for it four times? No, it is the one for the whole complex. It specifically says

[2:26:15] have heard the property, so that actually happened with the long be traded property, one of the tenants reached out first,

[2:26:24] learned about the program, then went to the property owner and the property owner applied to do the whole project.

[2:26:33] The evaluation, what board evaluates the application?

[2:26:38] So, previously there it was just me if they met the program requirements and then it was

[2:26:46] first come first serve. What I'm proposing here is a staff of economic development, planning,

[2:26:55] and building will evaluate the criteria laid out in the program.

[2:27:02] When you drive around town and see guys, that property sure could use them a facelift, do you solicit those businesses?

[2:27:10] There was a big push right when the program started.

[2:27:14] All the whole business advisory board can attest.

[2:27:17] I went around door to door doing it.

[2:27:19] And we've talked recently about doing another push.

[2:27:22] Um, because certainly that, um, you could tell in the first year it was the getting people to

[2:27:28] know that the program existed, um, but I, I think, you know, we could absolutely do another

[2:27:35] campaign. Okay, here comes my difficult question.

[2:27:41] Because this isn't grant money. This is money

[2:27:43] taken out of our general budget and given to your department to disperse. If I were to win the

[2:27:51] to borrow, and I went $200 million, and then I buy two properties on Oak Island Drive.

[2:27:58] But I'm worth $200 million, but it's first come first serve.

[2:28:03] Can I then contact your office and say I want to put some rose bushes in front of my building

[2:28:07] and a couple of benches, and your criteria will say, sure, your second and line, you'll get

[2:28:14] $10,000. We need a better system than that. The evaluation criteria needs to be

[2:28:21] Army Corps of Engineers talked to all the different towns what town would be most damaged

[2:28:26] if the Army Corps of Engineers did not step in to help them with sanory nourishment

[2:28:31] what town would be most damaged and they didn't pick us but we certainly come close

[2:28:36] who would be most damaged if the town did not give them taxpayers money to enhance their building

[2:28:46] that just frustrates me and frustrates me last time when we voted on this

[2:28:49] that somebody with a whole lot more money than I do can actually have a parking lot fixed or

[2:28:55] asked to have rose bushes put down. That's not a as needed basis, so I like where you

[2:29:02] give us some thought. Are you suggesting adding in a financial need component to the evaluation

[2:29:09] criteria? Okay, so the program was not designed to be about financial need. It's really hard to

[2:29:18] determine. I understand where you're coming from. If that's something the board wants to consider,

[2:29:23] I'd be open to it if you can tell me how you might evaluate that. My other point I would make

[2:29:29] about this is it's about leveraging the private investment. And so the people that spend $30,000.

[2:29:38] We're only going to spend 10 of that but we're going to get 30 of total investment in a project.

[2:29:45] I looked at all the net for the people at $1,000,000 given to a real estate office.

[2:29:51] Six thousand was given to a drugstore, a law firm, got 56,000.

[2:29:59] One of these.

[2:30:00] Today's Oak Island is going to come in here. This council is going to come in here. Next year, two years now, three years from now, they're going to say taxpayers of Oak Island, we have to raise your taxes.

[2:30:11] And when we do that, they're going to say, how much of our money have you given away the last two years, three years? I like to have a better answer.

[2:30:20] Yes, the more valuable projects give us more bang for our buck.

[2:30:26] So that's my fault.

[2:30:28] If I could just, you know,

[2:30:29] where I look at it,

[2:30:30] like this is begin with the end in mind, right?

[2:30:33] Dr. Stephen Covey.

[2:30:34] Well, where our end game is,

[2:30:35] we just want to clean up these businesses.

[2:30:38] So it makes no difference to me how much money

[2:30:42] that that person has that I was building.

[2:30:44] If we get the end result, which is,

[2:30:47] we get it cleaned up because they're investing

[2:30:48] and we're simply doing the matching it.

[2:30:50] I think we get the end game that we're looking for.

[2:30:53] So we look at the before pictures and the after pictures.

[2:30:55] So we get a lot more of the afterpictures, otherwise we're going to have to ask for tax returns or they have to fund an application and put that annual revenue to the business and that gets I think that's going to take us into place.

[2:31:08] We don't necessarily want to be personally.

[2:31:10] I even think, you know, you and I have had this conversation, but it really did just hit me.

[2:31:17] Some of these, like I think about some of these businesses that we may perceive,

[2:31:24] have a lot of money, they actually also generate a lot of money into our economy,

[2:31:28] they provide jobs, they pay sales tax, they pay, now their property is worth more,

[2:31:33] their property value has gone up, they're going to pay more property taxes on that.

[2:31:37] I might not be substantial,

[2:31:41] but I think, you know,

[2:31:46] they do pump a lot of money into our economy.

[2:31:48] And it beautifies what we are attempting to make walkable too.

[2:31:53] We're not, I don't think someone's going to avoid walking on.

[2:31:57] He's still kind of in drive because of business looks ugly, but to the extent it's right next to one that they do want to visit.

[2:32:04] I mean, it plays entirely into the commercial code repair and other goals that this and the previous council website, which I think are admirable and should be.

[2:32:13] We should continue to go after.

[2:32:16] Well, I mean, it's an, it's an unfortunate and we can also hear tonight and name.

[2:32:20] Yes.

[2:32:21] The businesses that really ought to take advantage of this program won't do it.

[2:32:27] And there are stores in town.

[2:32:32] And there is a reality that we're probably going to run out of, I don't want to say customers,

[2:32:38] but we're going to run out of people who are going to use this to a certain degree,

[2:32:41] because the ones who are going to take advantage of it are going to use it.

[2:32:46] The ones that are not, we're never going to recite them not to, but that raises a question for me.

[2:32:52] So is there anything in this that restricts how many times they can apply?

[2:32:57] like every question. I get a grant this year and I painted my building in GL quite like the

[2:33:02] color saw upon next year to paint it a different color. We have a restriction on how often

[2:33:08] they can apply. It just says for the same property once a year so that was more thinking about those

[2:33:16] properties that were multiple ones that they couldn't apply for different things but no I think

[2:33:22] to adding? I think your evaluation criteria is subjective and flexible enough. For example, overall

[2:33:29] visual improvement to the property. If you painted it last year and you're coming to the town

[2:33:34] to say, I want to re-paint it. That's not a overall visual improvement. That's a change in your mind.

[2:33:41] I think that's a great potential roadblock and I think councilman crafts concern is valid as well.

[2:33:48] But I think we, this is year, will be year three, you've identified areas of improvement,

[2:33:56] and we'll continue, I'm sure you'll come up with a number of areas to improve after you go through

[2:33:59] one year of evaluating. But I think you're steering this ship, so to speak, in the right direction,

[2:34:06] and improving it over what it was previously, and again, I'm very much in favor of this. So with

[2:34:11] In that in mind, I'll make a motion to approve the updated facade improvement grant program as presented.

[2:34:21] Second.

[2:34:23] Any more discussion?

[2:34:27] All those in favor?

[2:34:31] Or post?

[2:34:37] Okay.

[2:34:39] That concludes our items on our agenda.

[2:34:42] We are not going to be going into a closed session.

[2:34:47] So with that, do I have a motion to adjourn?

[2:34:51] Some moved for the second. All those in favor.

[2:34:56] We are now adjourned. Thank you all for coming.

[2:35:00] Good job.

[2:35:01] Sorry.

081826TownCouncilMtg

Agenda

Transcript