[57:53] Welcome to this meeting of the Planning and Development Council of the Town of Oakville. We have no regrets, everyone is here. And Councillor, are there any declarations of conflict of interest on the agenda? Mr. Clerk, I don't see any. Council and everyone on the weekend, auto-jolonic passed. Auto-jolonic was an important and very sustaining Oakville story for many decades. His family fled Prague.

[58:22] after the communist coup and they rebuilt their court business here.

[58:29] He trained at the Oakville skating club and in 1962 he went back to Prague with his

[58:35] sister Marie and won the World Pairs title.

[58:39] He served more than two decades in the House of Commons.

[58:43] He held four cabinet portfolios and later he was Canada's ambassador to the Czech Republic.

[58:50] On behalf of Oakville Town Council, it's our condolences to the Johnic family.

[58:56] I would call on Council to join me in a moment of silence.

[59:54] Thank you, everybody.

[59:56] Council.

[59:57] Out of respect for the time of the...

[1:00:00] Planning staff who are here for item 7.1 and the proponent who is here to make the presentation to us. I'd like to move item 7.1 up for consideration now. And with that, I will turn to the planning director to our commissioner to set the stage for this.

[1:00:25] Thank you, Mayor Burton. This item is a public meeting. No decisions are being made this evening. It is for a proposal on Trafalgar Road at Burnham Thorpe.

[1:00:33] and the applicant from Urban Strategies, Eric Turkot,

[1:00:36] would be doing the presentation for this evening,

[1:00:38] and we'll be here to take notes and any council feedback.

[1:00:44] Thank you, then, let's welcome the presentation.

[1:01:03] I don't staff.

[1:01:04] Oh, good, you have a microphone on.

[1:01:05] Oh, can you hear me?

[1:01:06] Yes, now we can hear you.

[1:01:07] Thank you.

[1:01:09] My name is John Paul Fraser.

[1:01:10] I am the Director of Communications

[1:01:11] with West Kirk Capital Inc.

[1:01:14] staff, members of the community, thank you for the opportunity to be here today.

[1:01:21] Before we discuss the project, my colleague Eric is going to do that.

[1:01:26] I'd like to say a few words about Westerkirk, which is the organization behind the proposal.

[1:01:31] Westerkirk is an institutional scale investor, active in both public and private markets.

[1:01:37] Our portfolio includes a diverse group of Canadian businesses operating across the

[1:01:43] real estate, aerospace, media, beauty, and hospitality sectors.

[1:01:49] These businesses are supported by a team of professionals based in Victoria and my

[1:01:54] colleague, Chadie Bedoon, who's sitting behind me, who's the head of our real estate group,

[1:01:57] and I, that's where we work.

[1:02:00] While the Western Kirk name itself may not be familiar to everyone, several of our investments

[1:02:05] perhaps are.

[1:02:06] So one example is the Havelin Aircraft of Canada, which is a company founded in North

[1:02:11] East in Oakville, in Downsview nearly a century ago.

[1:02:17] Today to Havelin is a quarter to Calgary where work is underway on the next generation

[1:02:21] of firefighting aircraft.

[1:02:24] These aircraft will help communities in Canada and around the world respond to the increasingly

[1:02:28] severe wildfire conditions.

[1:02:32] to have and also maintains a significant local presence

[1:02:35] with engineering teams based in Mississauga,

[1:02:37] just south of the Pearson Airport.

[1:02:39] And also an Ontario DHC has subsidiaries in Fort Erie

[1:02:43] with Fleet Canada and in Hamilton with Mid-Canada Mod.

[1:02:48] Closer to Toronto and Scarborough,

[1:02:51] we own cosmetic laboratories,

[1:02:53] which is a cosmetics manufacturer in Customs Innovation House

[1:02:56] that develops beauty products for some of the world's

[1:02:58] most recognized brands.

[1:02:59] And we also own Vista Radio, one of Canada's largest privately held radio networks with

[1:03:06] stations across Ontario, as well as Alberta and British Columbia.

[1:03:11] In real estate, we work alongside two very highly respected development organizations.

[1:03:16] In Barry, we partner with George and Communities, which is a residential community developer and

[1:03:21] home builder, supporting several of their leading residential projects.

[1:03:25] and Dimitra Vancouver, we partner with Grovener

[1:03:28] and experience property owner developer

[1:03:31] on a project called Brent Woodblock,

[1:03:33] which is a major mixed use community

[1:03:35] that will include residential, commercial,

[1:03:37] and public spaces, including

[1:03:39] over 1,000 rental units.

[1:03:42] Although Westercker's investments span

[1:03:45] wide range of industries,

[1:03:47] they share an important quality.

[1:03:50] We're proudly Canadian.

[1:03:53] Together, our businesses employ

[1:03:54] thousands of people and making meaningful contribution to the communities where they operate

[1:04:00] and to the Canadian economy in general. Today we're about to speak with you about one of our

[1:04:05] newest ventures, the livable Trafalgar Project. This proposal represents a great deal of thoughtful work

[1:04:11] by us and our fantastic team of experience and dedicated professionals all based here in Toronto

[1:04:18] and the Toronto area. Our team cares very much about this region and it understands the communities

[1:04:24] that they work in and have helped shape many of those communities and we're

[1:04:30] proud to work with them. So together our hope is simple that one day life

[1:04:35] here in Oakville might be even better because of the community that we can

[1:04:39] build together at the corner of Trafalgar and Burman Thorpe. I'll now ask

[1:04:44] Eric Turcott, Principal of Urban Strategies, to walk us through the project and

[1:04:49] we look forward to your comments. Eric,

[1:05:01] good evening everyone. My name is Eric Turcott.

[1:05:04] I'm a partner at Urban Strategies, I'm extremely happy to be here today to provide you with

[1:05:10] an overview of our project, the livable Trafalgar.

[1:05:15] We have a great team that includes some architects and landscape architects, engineers from the

[1:05:22] region who's been helping us to create this, but we think of a very exciting vision.

[1:05:28] The project, livable, that we title livable Trafalgar, is a proposed new community located

[1:05:34] on the southeast quadrant of Burden-Torp and Trafalgar.

[1:05:39] The site is 20.2 hectare of about 50 acres and it's currently home of the Vic Hatfield

[1:05:46] Gulf and Learning Center.

[1:05:49] Some of the land is used for farming currently and there is as well an abandoned farmhouse

[1:05:55] on the property.

[1:05:59] Division, you know, what we're proposing is a new community, one that is designed as

[1:06:06] a mixed use community, that is that is integrate various type of housing, some ground related

[1:06:13] housing, some rentals, some condo, different scale.

[1:06:19] One is also integrated with green space, one that it's leading by landscape, that unit

[1:06:25] are connected to integrated open space that they are also integrated a little central plaza or place that's going to be the heart for a community that can have coffee that people can actually walk from the unit, go down and go to the main square that could be a place for celebration for gathering and then have a, you know, a section that is a small main street and then it's being as well complemented with courtyard.

[1:06:55] with green space, green roof, and so on.

[1:06:58] So something that we're quite excited.

[1:07:00] We look at the community as something slightly different

[1:07:04] and unique than what is currently usually proposed.

[1:07:09] What will feature is a series of interconnected plaza, courtyard,

[1:07:15] some bike lane, a series of new street.

[1:07:18] All together, it's 12 neighborhood blocks.

[1:07:20] It is a series of, it's about 27 new buildings.

[1:07:26] This is about, it is eight mixed-use tower.

[1:07:29] And by mixed-use we mean that there are some retail

[1:07:31] in the ground floor, or some amenity space.

[1:07:35] There is a grocery store that we're planning.

[1:07:38] The project has various types of unit

[1:07:41] that has some family type of units.

[1:07:45] This is about 35% of the unit right now

[1:07:47] that are three in two bedrooms

[1:07:49] that are kind of family-oriented.

[1:07:51] We have some commercial space.

[1:07:53] The density in total is about three times density.

[1:07:57] We have a new, some new park to public park space

[1:08:00] as well as a lot of private open space.

[1:08:02] So something that is fully integrated at that intersection.

[1:08:06] It's also a place that is connected to the new school

[1:08:10] that our plan, there's a primary school,

[1:08:13] and a secondary school that our plan adjacent.

[1:08:17] And so something that we are proud to create safe connection for the families and the kids are going to be living there.

[1:08:25] From an official planning designation, we are on the and the livable Oakville official plan.

[1:08:30] We are node and corridor, which is a place that's anticipated from growth through your planning document.

[1:08:37] And on the north Oakville East secondary plan, it's a that we are Trafalgar urban core area.

[1:08:43] All together, the project is our belief that it really advances the intent of this policy.

[1:08:53] The only thing that we are needing permission from an official plan perspective is to allow

[1:08:59] for up to 30 stories to be introduced.

[1:09:05] And that is to be in line to support the activities, the amenities, the retail, the grocery store.

[1:09:11] and it's also in line with some of the approval

[1:09:14] that are nearby.

[1:09:17] Zoning bylaw, we have to redo the zoning.

[1:09:20] Currently the zoning is future development,

[1:09:23] which is just a placeholder.

[1:09:24] So we'll have to introduce a new zoning,

[1:09:26] working with city staff just to provide the permission

[1:09:29] that will be generally in line with your Trafalgar urban core

[1:09:37] zoning designation, but as well obviously

[1:09:39] would specific height density set back and parking that will be tailored to the project itself.

[1:09:46] And you could see here some of the kind of the character that we feel that we see in those images

[1:09:51] of the type of place we see. We need a draft line of subdivision which in this part of Oakville

[1:09:56] is a typical thing. So 12 neighborhood blocks, five new public street. We'll have to dedicating some

[1:10:03] of the parkland as well as some of the private open space.

[1:10:07] We do have climate change because it's something that's really important for us, for the

[1:10:12] team and for Westerkirk.

[1:10:15] So green infrastructure, the way we're going to integrate in those green spaces, some way

[1:10:21] to help to manage runoff, maximizing and prioritizing biodiversity with native planting, low carbon

[1:10:32] design, landscape design to reduce embodied carbon by using durable, local resource materials,

[1:10:40] having buildings that are responsive through their orientation, selection of materials,

[1:10:45] building passive building design will also be a key feature of the project and will integrate

[1:10:53] blue and green roof, which are that retains water again to manage the climate change.

[1:11:03] water runoff. We've had so far, so we started a project in 2024. We started

[1:11:09] design, we advanced the design concept, we had a series of meeting with town

[1:11:15] staff, which had been very, very, having very helpful and productive

[1:11:20] conversation to continue to advance the project. We've met with our local

[1:11:26] councillors and regional councillor, we've had a conversation with the

[1:11:31] Althala, Islamic Center, as well as the Vic Hatfield

[1:11:35] Gulf facility folks.

[1:11:37] We had our public information meeting.

[1:11:40] We submitted the application back in April.

[1:11:43] So now it's an ongoing conversation

[1:11:44] that we are having with you, with the planning staff,

[1:11:49] with the regional staff.

[1:11:51] We also have a website where all the information is available

[1:11:55] to everyone and to provide comment and feedback.

[1:11:59] and the whole application is accessible there and as well we're going to continue on

[1:12:04] this lead to have conversation with you with city staff to continue to

[1:12:08] advance the application. So in conclusion what we see here is a community that

[1:12:15] is you know where you know for for everyday living that it's mixed use

[1:12:19] residential has commercial has many days that you don't have to drive for all of

[1:12:24] you needed is a lot of things that are into here in a compact compact

[1:12:28] facilities, a diverse mix use of buildings. So again, it's not one type of building where we're

[1:12:33] trying to create an offering for families, senior, young people. There's a lot of flexibility

[1:12:38] here. Some retail to support the community, including a grocery store and retail that is created

[1:12:46] in terms of creating a sense of community. We want folks to have at their doorstep access to green

[1:12:54] in spaces and then sustainable design.

[1:12:57] So this is something that we're quite proud of

[1:12:59] and we look forward to continue the discussion with you.

[1:13:05] Thank you.

[1:13:06] Thank you very much.

[1:13:07] You have some questions from counselors

[1:13:09] if you'd like.

[1:13:11] Counselor Shia.

[1:13:13] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

[1:13:14] Thank you for the presentation.

[1:13:16] So my first question is about the infrastructure

[1:13:19] and the community service capacity.

[1:13:21] So, this proposal is, like, is for massive scare of this development, it has over 60,000

[1:13:29] units.

[1:13:31] And I noticed the report, so there is no only 0.5 hectares of public open space, partial

[1:13:39] school blocks, and the servings transportation studies are still under review, so my question

[1:13:46] is for staff.

[1:13:46] So would you please clarify what is the town's current assessment of whether in the school

[1:13:53] parks, water, and the road infrastructure in that area can support such a huge development

[1:14:00] project. Has the Horton District or Catholic school board confirmed that the partial school

[1:14:06] blocks will be sufficient? Or is there a risk that the school capacity will lag behind

[1:14:13] the residents occupancy?

[1:14:20] So through you, remember, and we've received the first submission comments from the Region

[1:14:24] of Halton regarding servicing allocation, and at this point in time, the applicant is

[1:14:29] not part of the allocation program, so that's something that they'll need to do.

[1:14:33] We've also had ongoing conversations with the school board as to how they're building

[1:14:37] and their property will be integrated into this development.

[1:14:41] So those comments have been provided to the applicant, and we will expect further conversations

[1:14:46] to be held with them in order for them to submit their second submission.

[1:14:51] And all of this is preface that after the development applications were submitted,

[1:14:55] we received their EIRFSS, which is the servicing strategy for the development.

[1:15:00] That's also under technical review. And at this point, I think we're just waiting comments from Conservation Halton. Okay, because with over six thousand new unit proposed. So I just want to make sure the infrastructure and the committee's service keep pace with the population growth before this project proceed further. So my second question is about join the report. I found that the financial consideration section of the report is just

[1:15:29] as I simply say, non-currently.

[1:15:33] So however, this application evolved the town

[1:15:35] acquiring multiple blocks into a public ownership

[1:15:39] like park, school road network through the draft plan

[1:15:43] of this subdivision.

[1:15:45] So my question for stuff, so would you clarify

[1:15:48] given that town will be acquiring land

[1:15:52] as part of this subdivision, what's the anticipated cost

[1:15:56] cost to the town, for the land, infrastructure, construction, upgrade, and ongoing maintenance.

[1:16:02] And why does this report indicate there's no financial impact at this stage?

[1:16:09] Yeah, through the Merburden, so through the subdivision agreement is where we would outline cost

[1:16:15] allocation and servicing components to the applicant.

[1:16:19] The road dedication would be dedicated to the town, free and clear of any encumbrance.

[1:16:22] So there would be no cost associated associated with that.

[1:16:25] But again, the subdivision agreement would detail all of the construction requirements

[1:16:29] and timing mechanisms for the applicant or the developer at that time to complete the

[1:16:34] roads and surfacing in those types of construction details.

[1:16:38] Okay.

[1:16:39] So will be a detailed financial analysis like developing charges, cost sharing agreement,

[1:16:46] capital budget impacts would be included in the future recommendations report from staff

[1:16:52] before the council is exactly approved this application in the future?

[1:16:56] Through you, Mayor Verne. Yes.

[1:16:57] And through the appendices that would be attached to the future staff report,

[1:17:02] it can be identified what those details would be.

[1:17:05] At this time, it's still under review and we haven't got the full detailed comments yet.

[1:17:11] Okay. Thank you very much.

[1:17:14] Thank you, Councillor Nando.

[1:17:16] Thank you, through you, Mayor Verne.

[1:17:17] Thank you so much for the presentation.

[1:17:19] And I know we've been having ongoing discussions.

[1:17:21] So my first question is in reference to we were talking about the allocation.

[1:17:26] So you're looking at getting allocation when it comes up, again, at the region.

[1:17:32] So in terms of this project, how far out are you looking at before you even begin this

[1:17:37] project?

[1:17:39] Well, the next round of allocation is probably in five years or so, so by the time you

[1:17:44] do some additional design, we think that probably would not be breaking down for seven to nine

[1:17:50] years, I would say.

[1:17:51] And you're looking at doing it in phases of how many phases did you say again?

[1:17:56] So I think in the report, I think we've identified five or six phases,

[1:18:01] but it will take probably a couple of decades

[1:18:04] to actually build this full project.

[1:18:07] One is infrastructure needs.

[1:18:10] We have to build based on infrastructure capacity.

[1:18:12] We can fast, we can build.

[1:18:16] And so it will be a process.

[1:18:20] But yeah, well, I would say it's probably a, you know,

[1:18:23] a team to 20 year build out probably.

[1:18:25] Okay. And seeing as how the market is now,

[1:18:28] so we've seen that some developers have actually gone

[1:18:32] from high rise to low rise now, because you're sitting

[1:18:36] on the property, you want to be able to build something

[1:18:39] on there. And there's no market for condos right now.

[1:18:44] So do you foresee in the future that the plans may change?

[1:18:48] I would say that the, well, we're going to seek some flexibility, obviously there has to be some flexibility in the plan because we don't know where the market exactly is going to be in seven, nine plus year because some of it will be built in 15 years and now so we want to ensure that we won't, we want to recycle like any developer, we want to respond to market to community needs.

[1:19:09] So, in a way is something that, as time goes by, we will be to better today, we can't

[1:19:18] make quite the decision, but we think that, you know, the market will change.

[1:19:22] And as always, you know, adapted is always evolved over time, where is it going to be in

[1:19:27] a few years so we want to make sure to, but we, you know, what we are submitting today,

[1:19:32] we think it's, you know, very realistic, I think we think it actually responds to a part

[1:19:37] on the market that will be there in when time comes to actually put this first shovel

[1:19:42] on the ground.

[1:19:43] Okay.

[1:19:43] And so in terms of, we were talking about the pops earlier, the public, that is 2.3 hectares.

[1:19:52] Do you think that's enough for the whole subdivision?

[1:19:55] It actually, you know, when we actually look at the images of the, of the, it's actually,

[1:20:00] I would say it's actually quite generous.

[1:20:03] If you see every unit has green space that is like within a couple of minutes of walking

[1:20:10] space, which you probably don't have in most communities.

[1:20:13] So this is actually, we want to make sure that there's a lot of units that are directly

[1:20:17] facing or connected to those open spaces.

[1:20:20] We have a little plaza, which I think has a different function.

[1:20:23] And then we also make sure that these spaces are very, the other green space are really

[1:20:34] and we have a new park that is going to be built literally right next door to us and so we're providing, for example, where we have a new little main street, high street, that there is a public connection that will go from there directly into the new park so ensuring that these are really well connected.

[1:20:56] Okay. Thank you. And in terms of the units, are you proposing affordable housing? Any units for affordable housing?

[1:21:05] That is, I think we can have a conversation with town staff. It's too early to tell right now exactly how, but that's going to be part of when we discuss the application about how much affordable, what is it?

[1:21:21] And then also, you know, see there is a question, you know, right now the corridor is not a PMTSA,

[1:21:31] which do would be mandated. So I think we have to continue this conversation. There's a good long conversation

[1:21:37] ahead of us. Okay. And then in terms of unit sizes, you were saying 35% family sized units.

[1:21:45] So what are you expecting those to be two and three bedrooms or those are two

[1:21:50] yeah those are two in three bedrooms and as time goes by if you know there's a

[1:21:55] mad time there's a market for even more definitely something will be

[1:21:59] considering. So approximately what size would a family size unit be? You know

[1:22:04] they it's a bit too early to tell but I would say that what we've seen built

[1:22:10] lately in, you know, in the last few years, not big enough.

[1:22:15] I think we have to think that we have a little bit more

[1:22:17] generous that also people need a little bit of space.

[1:22:20] They need place for their stroller for a bit of storage.

[1:22:24] So I think that, you know,

[1:22:25] West or Kirk is a quite, is a sophisticated developer.

[1:22:29] So I think they want to ensure that the product is actually

[1:22:33] meet the need family community.

[1:22:36] And I think the one thing we may have discussed in one of our meetings was that if you have a bedroom inside a unit, the bedroom should have a window.

[1:22:47] We've seen units now where the bedrooms do not even have windows, which should not be considered bedrooms.

[1:22:55] So that's a concern. And we had discussed a grocery store in the area, so it would fit.

[1:23:02] but what was the size again?

[1:23:07] I'm thinking it's around 60,000 square feet.

[1:23:10] If I remember well, 50,000 square feet,

[1:23:13] something, it's in the document,

[1:23:15] but it's a significant grocery store.

[1:23:18] Okay, and then just lastly, parking.

[1:23:21] Yes.

[1:23:22] Is it enough parking per unit or how, go ahead.

[1:23:27] We think so.

[1:23:27] We have, I believe, it's 7,700 parking.

[1:23:31] majority is located on the ground there are a few blocks around for

[1:23:37] fog are on the edge of the fog are that some of it will also be integrated in

[1:23:41] the podium so we are ensuring that there's enough parking for residents for

[1:23:48] visitors but also for the retail the grocery store so that yeah that's what I was

[1:23:53] thinking so it's what did we say 60 700 units from 69 hundred units 64 hundred

[1:23:59] June 6, 420, 6420. And then about slightly over 7,700. So about 1,300. Yeah, I think it's around

[1:24:11] 30 again. 1,300 for visitors and retailers. Something like that. I can, I don't have the

[1:24:19] number right off me. It's in the our planning report, but yeah, percentage is four to retail

[1:24:23] or the visitors as well.

[1:24:26] And that would include bike racks.

[1:24:29] Then in addition to that.

[1:24:30] It's sorry, in addition bike racks.

[1:24:31] Bike, exactly.

[1:24:33] Some of it will be bicycle ring that will be on the street.

[1:24:37] Some of it then will be secured bicycle parking inside buildings.

[1:24:43] Okay, all right.

[1:24:44] Thank you for the information.

[1:24:46] You're very welcome.

[1:24:47] Thank you Councillor, Councillor Neill.

[1:24:49] Thank you.

[1:24:50] The word seven councillors did an excellent job

[1:24:52] of picking off most of my questions but I do have a few left here going sticking with the grocery

[1:24:57] store for a second. I don't, can you tell me where is the grocery store proposed on this? I'm

[1:25:03] looking at the, I'm looking at the concept map here with all the different blocks.

[1:25:14] Maybe it's on the,

[1:25:25] it's in a podium, correct? It is located in a podium. So it is in the building

[1:25:30] at the south end of where you see block one. So right on the half that is south of the block one.

[1:25:42] So the block one. So it's on the other side of what you've discerned as main street. It's on the

[1:25:47] left of where you see the square. Okay. So it is a it's a grocery that is at grade and integrated

[1:25:54] into the podium of the building. Okay so just a moment ago you said that there are 7700 parking

[1:26:00] spaces and most of them run ground on ground level.

[1:26:03] Is that correct?

[1:26:04] On the ground.

[1:26:05] Underground.

[1:26:05] Underground is going to say where?

[1:26:07] You're going to put those.

[1:26:08] OK.

[1:26:08] But in terms of parking spaces for retail,

[1:26:11] where do you anticipate putting those?

[1:26:13] The one for the grocery store will be included.

[1:26:16] So we want to include, make sure that the retail parking

[1:26:20] is actually within the blocks that are designated for them.

[1:26:23] So for the grocery store, it would be in that block one.

[1:26:27] So they will be some that is inside the podium itself and some of them where they will be on the ground.

[1:26:34] Okay. Tell me a little bit about the rest of the retail space.

[1:26:37] So you said 60,000 square feet of grocery store.

[1:26:41] I calculated your metric of square meters to 155,000 square feet of retail space in total.

[1:26:49] So of that, of the 90,000 change extra square feet, how is that going to be allocated across this project?

[1:26:54] So maybe I'll go, first I'll go, so where you see on this diagram in the kind of highlighted

[1:27:02] in the red line, so the edge, so the way we see it is where the grocery store will obviously

[1:27:10] take a big section of that retail.

[1:27:15] And the rest we see it as kind of street-related, ground-related, so that would be the rest

[1:27:20] ground that many of these spaces will be, uh, support community space, you know, your

[1:27:24] dry cleaner, your coffee shop, uh, and so on. So that will be related. So linking Burnin

[1:27:31] Torp going down on that first north-south street, then coming what we refer to as our

[1:27:37] high street, main street that will come from the mid-blocks street that goes from Trafalgar,

[1:27:42] going east, we're trying to focus and concentrate it. I think the one thing we want to make sure

[1:27:47] the retail is into a focus location as opposed to all spread. We also know that you know we

[1:27:54] are wrapping just around the corner on Trafalgar and Burnin Torp but also those are I think a lot

[1:28:02] of it there will be there will be some retail like that are anchoring this corner but it's really

[1:28:08] the idea is to bring it in a place that is more pedestrian focused that is really oriented toward

[1:28:14] community. What about the sizes of units? So retail, one of the problems we've had with retail

[1:28:18] built, retail units being built in some of our communities across Oakfields, they're too small.

[1:28:24] And so what you end up with is not, you're not being practical for retail uses and they end up

[1:28:28] being coming, you know, services way too many, excuse me to tell you, way too many caripractors,

[1:28:34] way too many dentists, etc. As opposed to the animated retail stores that, you know, people expect.

[1:28:40] So what did your floor plate look like in terms of the square footage of stores that we

[1:28:44] make available. We haven't broken that down yet but we will have a retail

[1:28:49] consultant that will come in at some point to actually just go we have the

[1:28:52] flexibility that we can actually it's quite elastic we can actually make our

[1:28:56] unit a deeper or narrower or longer we have the flexibility and the

[1:29:03] importance here is we don't want to build retail it's not going to be useful for

[1:29:08] anyone that is like the thing the key with retail and you've seen it in many

[1:29:13] places. If it's not well built, it's not helping anyone. I'm not going to want people to be there.

[1:29:20] And we want to make sure here that it's actually very well tailored to the retail,

[1:29:26] the market reality. Yeah, if it's not large enough and there's not

[1:29:29] a convenient parking, it doesn't succeed. No. So those are the two things you're going to have to

[1:29:33] look at very carefully. Yeah, absolutely. In terms of, in terms of the style of ownership,

[1:29:38] you may have mentioned it. If you did, I apologize. Is it rental or condo or a combination of both,

[1:29:45] We do not know at this point, I think that giving that we're not going to start building for a number of years, depending on the market, it's too early to tell, but we will definitely have different.

[1:30:05] Okay,

[1:30:10] what about phasing for this retail, going back to retail for a second? I mean, how do you anticipate phasing this project in order to achieve a presence of retail before there's a critical mass of residences? And we have a community in Palermo, for example, on the west side of our community that still doesn't have really any services or retail.

[1:30:29] and it's been many, many years.

[1:30:31] How do you avoid that?

[1:30:32] How are you going to avoid that in this case

[1:30:33] so that people can move in

[1:30:34] and from day one, have access to retail?

[1:30:37] Yeah, the way we've actually been thinking

[1:30:39] about the phasing, it's exactly in that line

[1:30:41] in terms of making sure.

[1:30:43] So you want to ensure that you have enough people

[1:30:46] that can actually come and support that.

[1:30:48] So we know it's going to take a bit of time

[1:30:49] but the blocks that are facing on Trafalgar,

[1:30:53] which carries a fair amount of people.

[1:30:55] We think that starting with the south block

[1:30:58] then actually after that building the grocery store,

[1:31:02] we'll actually probably be the right thing.

[1:31:04] And then the third one, actually building around the plaza,

[1:31:07] we think is actually probably makes sense.

[1:31:10] Also, depending on what's going to happen around us,

[1:31:12] it's going to be quite critical.

[1:31:14] So for example, if we see that some of our neighbors

[1:31:16] who already have that location,

[1:31:18] if they start building earlier,

[1:31:20] maybe building the grocery store area earlier

[1:31:23] may actually make sense.

[1:31:24] So I think that in a few years,

[1:31:26] from now, there's a few scenarios that we've highlighted

[1:31:29] that we can actually go depending on the market,

[1:31:33] depending who's doing what, where,

[1:31:36] because we think that the area,

[1:31:38] the reason we're putting that amount of retail,

[1:31:40] and that's location a little square,

[1:31:42] we think it's something that is going to be,

[1:31:44] that's going to be a need for the community

[1:31:46] for that kind of space,

[1:31:48] that are not just for us,

[1:31:49] but I think for a bit of a larger radius.

[1:31:55] Okay, Councilor Nanda talked about the size of the unit.

[1:31:59] So are you suggesting that you'll be looking at up to three bedroom units for these particular?

[1:32:04] Yes.

[1:32:04] Okay, but you don't have a sense of the square footage of those units at this point?

[1:32:08] Not yet.

[1:32:09] We are working.

[1:32:10] We are architects, though, who's being, you know, that has a lot of experience, BDV quadrangle.

[1:32:20] We're looking at the size of the unit, we're not making shoebox units, we're actually making them more generous than what you see today.

[1:32:29] That's been built in the last 20 years.

[1:32:32] Now the market clearly is, and as we mentioned before, the market's clearly not here for these units today, and we don't know why that's going to return.

[1:32:38] But assuming at some point, should you get approval for this at some point down the road?

[1:32:43] What is your anticipated timeline?

[1:32:45] You said it's multiple decades, but when would you anticipate being in the ground?

[1:32:49] Is that strictly going to be market-based or are you looking at getting stuff done ahead of time?

[1:32:53] Well, I think we, I mean, as we talked about earlier, we need to have allocation.

[1:33:00] Once we have allocation and then go to the detailed design, we think breaking ground

[1:33:05] It's probably seven to nine years from now and it's probably a couple of decades to to build the whole thing

[1:33:13] What is that you're all you're referring to for the website? I couldn't find it. Oh, it is

[1:33:20] There

[1:33:23] it is with livable trufflegar.ca

[1:33:28] Okay, those are all my questions for you. No, you worship. Thank you

[1:33:32] Thank you, councillor

[1:33:33] Next up we have councillor Elgar

[1:33:37] Thank you very much to remember. Thank you for coming tonight.

[1:33:41] Quite a few questions.

[1:33:44] Wester Kirk never heard of them.

[1:33:47] And is that the, who owns it? Is it Sherry Brightson? Who owns it?

[1:33:54] I'm going to last John Paul answered that question.

[1:33:57] That is correct.

[1:33:59] So she's from the Thompson family.

[1:34:02] Yes.

[1:34:03] Okay. Okay. That helped.

[1:34:04] Now, I heard you say that you were connected, connected with something in Barry.

[1:34:10] What was the name of the developer in Barry that did the building?

[1:34:14] That Georgian communities.

[1:34:16] Georgian communities.

[1:34:17] Okay.

[1:34:17] Because I couldn't find that.

[1:34:18] Okay.

[1:34:19] I'll check that out.

[1:34:20] And is the Gras veneer in B.C.?

[1:34:22] Is that who you're using?

[1:34:24] A groviner.

[1:34:25] Yes, right.

[1:34:26] Groviner.

[1:34:26] Okay.

[1:34:27] So, if we take a look at it, so you got 6,420 units, 27 buildings, tensed our, ten

[1:34:34] and tower development going up to 30 stories.

[1:34:39] So parking ratio, we know 7,703 spaces on 6,420 units.

[1:34:45] So you got 1.2 parking spaces only.

[1:34:49] But you're gonna have 2,052 bicycle spaces supposedly.

[1:34:55] And then it goes on school blocks.

[1:34:58] And you know, and I guess you must have talked to school board,

[1:35:01] you know that there's no way that's enough space

[1:35:03] for kids to go to school. So you're, so you're trying to talk about a partial,

[1:35:07] partial school space, that's all. Is that what you're looking at?

[1:35:12] So we have been, we've received the comments from the, from the district school board.

[1:35:17] So we are having a discussion I think next week with them. They've actually requested that

[1:35:22] we add some of the land to, to be about to increase the current size of the parcel to

[1:35:30] 15, 15 acres, so we'll have the, definitely have the conversation with them, because I mean having a secondary school and having one that can accommodate all the kids is quite important.

[1:35:41] Yeah, well, it sure looked like it to me like you got a big problem there unless nobody unless everybody quits going to school, so you got about 60 acres, so I just curious on Parkland.

[1:35:53] I'm sorry, I missed. I thought I saw something really crazy with Parkland. It was hardly a postage stamp.

[1:35:59] How big is the Parkland you're giving to the town right now you're going to dedicate?

[1:36:03] We have two public parks that are being dedicated and which represent 0.5 hectares.

[1:36:10] That's it. 0.5 hectares for all the parks for 6,420 units.

[1:36:17] So what we have to remember is there is a land owners agreement was that was

[1:36:24] executed between the town and the land owners of the larger area that they

[1:36:31] pull together some that's why for example you have the the park next door

[1:36:35] just to the east of us that is part of that overall contribution and then

[1:36:39] other parks so the parks are being distributed toward the into around the entire

[1:36:44] area and then there was a financial contribution then and areas that were

[1:36:50] actually distributed between all the landowners that was that was signed.

[1:36:55] Well so you're telling me so roughly 15,000 people will not even have enough space

[1:37:00] to have a ball down it. Again, half a hectare come on, you know that. Yeah but they

[1:37:06] are there is a park that is immediately adjacent to the east that is actually part

[1:37:12] part of that is just adjacent to the development.

[1:37:16] There are some other park space that are in the other quadrant that were actually part

[1:37:22] of the agreement.

[1:37:23] So it was, again, that was an agreement that was stricken between the town and all the

[1:37:31] land owners of the area to ensure that park land was consolidated and focused into the

[1:37:39] the right place within that community.

[1:37:42] Okay, so you're saying like 15,000 people

[1:37:44] do not need a park in their own area, basically.

[1:37:47] That's basically a way it's designed right now.

[1:37:51] I hear you, and that's the way it is.

[1:37:53] Is that the way it is?

[1:37:54] I, you know, my opinion is that we are creating

[1:37:59] some new park space within the development,

[1:38:02] and we are making action to do what I have.

[1:38:04] Okay, for park space, like in Oakville, I can take you to, I'd love to drive you around

[1:38:11] to show you the parks we have even in Glen Abbey, which isn't far away.

[1:38:15] And there are a lot of them and people love it.

[1:38:19] And this is what's happening as we go north, it seems to me that parks are, they're not parks

[1:38:26] anymore.

[1:38:27] In fact, there are places where you can walk to maybe something, but you're saying you

[1:38:32] you'll have to walk somewhere else to go to a part with this development of 15,000

[1:38:38] people.

[1:38:41] Okay.

[1:38:42] Okay.

[1:38:42] I know this is and what I like is that you've come forward and we're seeing it for the

[1:38:48] first time.

[1:38:49] Now, when I look at public consultation, I got to tell you, do you think seven people that

[1:38:54] attended the meeting that was virtual and only one written response, do you think that's

[1:39:00] a good, a good summation of the number of people that come out to talk about the,

[1:39:05] you know, to highlight the public meeting and how important it is.

[1:39:08] Or do you think it may be a little bit weak?

[1:39:11] We would love, we did this distribution.

[1:39:13] We would love to see more people.

[1:39:16] And, you know, we are, we welcome more opportunity to have more public session in, in 2027.

[1:39:26] So I appreciate that.

[1:39:28] Now, hope we can have that.

[1:39:29] Now, when you get into phasing, from what I've read, it's seven phases you're going to

[1:39:33] do.

[1:39:35] And I tell you what the problem is, right now that we're facing, and I wonder how you're

[1:39:40] going to resolve it, is the people move in.

[1:39:43] But the problem is a little bit of a delay in what the residents are looking for.

[1:39:48] So as you say, it's going to start in eight or nine years and go for another 20 years.

[1:39:53] Can you ensure that all the amenities are going to be at the front end?

[1:39:56] Which is now what all now we're that right now we're into an election time and everybody's it is promising all that stuff's going in first

[1:40:04] As you as a developer are you going to be able to put all that stuff in first?

[1:40:08] Well, amenities are going to be built incrementally as each phase will include some amenities

[1:40:15] And you know the infrastructure needs to be in place

[1:40:17] So we are going to be putting as many as much as we can

[1:40:21] But again, it has to be face based on you know where the infrastructure where we're going

[1:40:26] How are we going to put the roads? How are we going to be connecting? So we want to make sure that it's done in a coordinated fashion.

[1:40:33] I hear you. So we just, you have to, it will be a delivery lag, of course.

[1:40:39] And it'll probably over the next 20 to 30, from what I'm hearing from you, 20 to 30 years, correct?

[1:40:44] Well, they will be, they will, we want to make sure that the residents, as we built different phases,

[1:40:51] We have to ensure that there will be a many space that will end in spaces that will actually be supporting the development as we go.

[1:41:00] So we are we will help to ensure that.

[1:41:05] No, I appreciate your honesty. You know some is nice to hear some of you.

[1:41:08] At least you'll admit it and you know not saying down the way it can later on when I'm probably won't be around in 20 first time, but now the last thing.

[1:41:16] I think development charges always find interesting and you know I'm sure you're aware

[1:41:22] of how we have got it the development charges as much as we have over the last since 1997,

[1:41:27] but it's got a lot worse lately.

[1:41:30] And I note that how much do you think Council members of the existing population are going

[1:41:36] to be contributing to the growth of your project based on what's what the development charges

[1:41:40] are working right now?

[1:41:42] so that you do not have to pay the full cost of the development for all the new infrastructure that's required.

[1:41:52] There's discounts all over the place and a lot more have shown up in the last few years.

[1:41:58] Like I'm sure you're well aware of it or you wouldn't be trying this project.

[1:42:04] Two part to this. I mean, yes, we know that this is things that are happening currently.

[1:42:09] Where is it going to be in seven, nine years, and plus years from now is we also don't know that and maybe city staff can help answer that question.

[1:42:21] But from a ballpark point of view, from you being the person that's with the proposal, you have the numbers or you wouldn't even think about it.

[1:42:30] When I look at the family behind it, you know the numbers roughly.

[1:42:33] What do you think the existing taxpayers will contribute over the term of this 20-year

[1:42:40] period to subsidize the development?

[1:42:47] I do not know how to answer that question.

[1:42:51] No, it's a tough one and nobody will answer it, so I appreciate your honesty again.

[1:42:55] I think that pretty well does it.

[1:42:57] I know I've got a big issue about how much the public will have to contribute.

[1:43:01] Not your fault is because of what the province has done.

[1:43:03] and it didn't just start today, it started back in 1997.

[1:43:08] I'm very concerned about the public consultation of only seven people attending

[1:43:13] and only one person writing a comment.

[1:43:16] The height and density, I think, is making a many downtown

[1:43:21] in this area with no parks for kids.

[1:43:25] And that's a very big concern I have.

[1:43:28] And I realized the phasing over seven phases.

[1:43:30] people when they buy they'll think they're going to have everything and they

[1:43:35] won't have anything for years to come and understand it. The school blocks I

[1:43:40] sure hope you're working on them because a lot of mistakes have been made for

[1:43:44] planning where the schools end up being the school land a little bit they get.

[1:43:49] Somebody sells it and the kids are bust forever. I can take you around to show

[1:43:53] your locations and Oakville if you're ever interested. So I wish you luck in the

[1:43:57] on this, but I certainly don't like the amount of green space I see, and I hope that you'll reconsider a lot of this, and I thank you.

[1:44:05] Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. Ed brings us to Councillor Adams.

[1:44:11] Thank you very much. I want to have a lot of conversation about a lot of different things.

[1:44:16] I have a relatively smaller item which is parking for visitors, and the use of paid parking for that.

[1:44:23] not. In a recent application at 2172 Whitecroft Road, we included a commercial, a prohibition

[1:44:29] on commercial parking area use. Can we include that as well here so that in the residential

[1:44:36] buildings where you've got visitor parking, that that visitor parking is available to the

[1:44:41] residents without paying for it? I think it's probably too early to, we're really early

[1:44:48] in the conversation. I think it's something we'll consider.

[1:44:50] Okay, I wonder if staff could include that in the items to report back on.

[1:44:55] I think that's an important element to make sure that we don't have visitor parking being pushed out on the-

[1:45:00] public streets. Yeah, the visitors parking as we are currently contemplated, contemplated, is actually integrated within the ratio of, you know, per each building in the underground. So I appreciate that it's there. But what I've seen all along the Trafalgar Road corridor here is that all the rental buildings, the condo buildings, they're all using a paid parking system for the visitor parking. Which pushes the visitors out onto the

[1:45:29] the neighboring streets, and so it creates parking chaos for, we'll look into the rest of the

[1:45:34] neighboring.

[1:45:40] Thank you, Councillor. That brings us to Councillor O'Meara.

[1:45:45] Thank you very much for your presentation. This reminds me off a lot about how North Oakville

[1:45:52] happened about 20 years ago and you see the fruition now with some of the plans that are coming here.

[1:45:58] So just to be clear, the school proposals are just future planning. There is no commitment from

[1:46:05] either of school boards to construct them as of yet is that correct?

[1:46:09] Well, they've been identified in the town's plan, and they are some discussion currently

[1:46:19] with the school board about the size of the parcel for both the primary school, that is

[1:46:24] to the south, that we have is contributing a portion of the north portion of it, as well

[1:46:31] as the secondary school.

[1:46:32] So there definitely seems to be very high on their priority list in terms of making sure that at least they have the right parcel in place to accommodate the school in the future.

[1:46:45] So they're differently on top of things.

[1:46:47] Okay, well, you don't have to look further than board one to see what happens when a school board commits to something in the side not to and then it turns into townhouses later.

[1:46:53] So maybe staff can work on some of the language we used we've used where if the school board if the school decide not to move forward with school.

[1:47:02] that's some reason that it reverts back to town space or public space, we can work on some,

[1:47:06] maybe we can look into that. And just to pull the thread a little bit more on that, you said they

[1:47:11] want an increase in the school board parcels, the school boards are looking for. So where would that

[1:47:16] increase come from? Would that come from the park space? No, it would actually be right now what

[1:47:22] they're looking for is that a portion of our land to be included to complement the parcel that

[1:47:30] So it would be, you know, it would have to, it would have to be a portion of the land from our property.

[1:47:37] Okay, okay, thanks.

[1:47:38] And I know you've mentioned with regards to the park system that you guys are putting in .5, but you have paid for the bigger area of park.

[1:47:46] So I get that there's a master plan in place.

[1:47:49] What I don't see in the renderings here are community facilities, are infrastructures like library spaces or recreational spaces,

[1:47:58] or places for fires, services, or daycares, or those things that make complete communities.

[1:48:05] Where is that going to go for anywhere from 10 to 15,000 people that will eventually be in that area?

[1:48:12] Those are the conversation we'll continue to have with the town staff.

[1:48:17] We fully anticipate that there would be a daycare here, that there would be some other amenity space that will be attached to the building.

[1:48:25] Like you said, the community need these type of amenities,

[1:48:28] and it's very important for us to have them.

[1:48:30] So they have not been, we have an identified

[1:48:34] and many of these space within each of the buildings,

[1:48:38] especially on the ground floor of the buildings,

[1:48:41] as well on the, for more private amenities space

[1:48:44] that would be located in the upper story,

[1:48:47] but on the roof terraces.

[1:48:51] But we will be having this discussion

[1:48:53] and with town staff.

[1:48:55] Okay, and that would be coming back in the final recommendation report,

[1:48:58] or would that be getting kicked down to a detailed design?

[1:49:03] Like, where do those decisions get met

[1:49:06] onto a piece of paper for a council to look at?

[1:49:08] Well, I think maybe I'll turn to town staff for the details.

[1:49:15] Through Mayor Burton, in Appendix D,

[1:49:20] that's the applicant's draft zoning file at this time,

[1:49:22] and they've identified a couple of community uses and as Mr. Turkot said the grocery store component

[1:49:28] so we can refine that a bit further to identify the public uses that you were identifying

[1:49:33] in the zoning biolum. That would be great, thank you very much and obviously the more of those

[1:49:38] the merrier because somebody's going to put them in there later and it usually ends up as Councillor

[1:49:42] Elger said being left on the taxpayers because it didn't get involved in the first sense of it so

[1:49:47] So, it's great to get those going up front.

[1:49:50] I'm just, I'm trying to wrap my head around the assumptions and market predictability and where we're going to be in 20 years and these sorts of things and I guess would it be a fair assessment to say that you guys are trying to get the highest best land use planning permissible on the property now, though that may not come into reality, would that be a fair assessment?

[1:50:10] I would say we, what we are proposing is what we want to build.

[1:50:17] Could there be, you know, because it's such a long term plan, could there be small

[1:50:23] modification on, you know, along the way, you know, part of the building gets lower,

[1:50:28] and the podium gets a little bit higher here, those are the kind of things, but we're

[1:50:32] planning for that capacity. I think that's important. There's a lot of growth

[1:50:35] happening in Oakville, and we also want to make sure that the number of units that you see

[1:50:40] here is also helping to support the grocery store. There was a mini-d space you're talking about,

[1:50:46] the at-grade retail, supportive retail, mini-d. So those are, you know, we feel that that density

[1:50:54] is probably what it takes to actually create that kind of a complete community.

[1:50:58] Okay, and I say that because there is a common thread that is lacing through Oakville that

[1:51:05] things are being built that are not reflective of what this community looks like.

[1:51:09] And it looks more like a Mississauga or a Toronto now with Liberty Village type blocks being

[1:51:14] built throughout the town.

[1:51:15] And we've recently had a developer at the GELAN who worked with the town to make more

[1:51:21] of something that seems more Oakville-ish by urban design.

[1:51:25] And I guess that's my, my wonder is whether there's a possibility for that in five years or six years that, you know, hey, this isn't working out the way that we thought it was going to work out that you can revert back to something that is not.

[1:51:40] 2030 tower-based, but it's story tower-based, but it's something more ground level.

[1:51:46] We're seeing a real swell of people who don't want to live in bird nests.

[1:51:49] They want to live, you know, towards the ground.

[1:51:52] So I guess my question is, is how do you, when you start the ball rolling on this and you

[1:51:59] got to go get allocation, it means you've got your FSI, your density, your numbers, and

[1:52:03] that's what you're getting allocation back on.

[1:52:04] How do you change the plan when the ball already starts moving for what you're going to

[1:52:09] go and ask for allocation for?

[1:52:11] Well, the structure, the way we actually plan for the

[1:52:13] street and the open space, we think is actually create

[1:52:17] really good block size.

[1:52:20] In a way, things can adjust over time within each of

[1:52:25] these blockbite.

[1:52:26] Again, when we're going to come for our location, we're

[1:52:28] going to be paying for X number of units.

[1:52:31] We want to make sure that what we're paying for is what we

[1:52:34] can build.

[1:52:37] Okay, thanks. And my last question just has to deal with storm water. And, you know,

[1:52:42] we don't have to look further than Toronto, St. Catharines, even Oakville, especially down

[1:52:45] by the lake. I think I did a quick calculation. It's going to like a 25% to 75% soft scape

[1:52:53] to hard scape for this whole plan.

[1:52:57] What are you going to do to mitigate where these massive

[1:53:01] influx of rainwater comes other than just putting it at a pipe and pushing it out somewhere

[1:53:06] How are you going to or what is the plan going to look like in terms of using all of I know you mentioned bioswales

[1:53:12] But but I think what are we going to do to capture this rainwater that will be displaced by 75% of this development being hard-scape?

[1:53:21] So there's currently a this there's two part to that one is there's a currently a landowner group for the area

[1:53:26] It is actually working with the town with the region to actually look at the water basin and and the watershed

[1:53:35] and actually plan all the infrastructure from sewer, water, storm water, and making sure that the ponds are in the right size, things are actually degrading in the right place and in the right size.

[1:53:50] So that is happening right now, there's a EIRFSS that has actually been submitted.

[1:53:58] So we are, the town end of region is going to be reviewing all of the materials.

[1:54:04] So there's no interest for us to think flood and things don't work.

[1:54:09] The other thing too is when we look at the way we're going to be designing the building,

[1:54:13] you know, the green roof, the blue roof, the one that can retain some of the water, how

[1:54:17] we're going to integrate in the in the street we're planning to actually have some facilities

[1:54:22] that can actually absorb some of that water, some of that the green corridor that we have

[1:54:28] where place we want to make sure that there's some infiltration that happens there.

[1:54:33] If anything we think that is actually is that was actually being a priority as we designed

[1:54:39] this project that we ensured that it was actually integrated from the get go from the original

[1:54:44] idea and that's why actually there's like you know lots of that of the of the open space that are

[1:54:50] part of the community that will be accessible for everyone is actually the way it's designed and

[1:54:55] integrated. Yeah I appreciate that some of the open spaces become their own storm water management

[1:55:00] ponds though unfortunately because of that so I appreciate that and maybe I'll just just note for

[1:55:04] staff if we can make sure we're doing everything we can to to you know without getting our handslapped

[1:55:10] by the province, but to make sure that we're doing green design and I think it behooves

[1:55:14] developers right now to pursue that as well, because that's what people are looking for

[1:55:18] in their communities.

[1:55:19] But thank you for that.

[1:55:19] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

[1:55:21] Thank you, Councillor.

[1:55:22] And no, Councillor Housetail.

[1:55:24] Thank you.

[1:55:25] And thank you for your patience and my colleagues for all their great questions.

[1:55:30] So I'm going to echo a few that you've heard, and I'm not going to go on about it, but I really

[1:55:36] We do think you need to revisit the park allocation and how you can enhance particularly

[1:55:44] along the Trufflega corridor.

[1:55:46] When you look at what you will call phase one and phase two, there really isn't green

[1:55:53] space in phase one and two.

[1:55:55] It's only when you get to three that that park neighborhood park gets built and while I

[1:56:02] appreciate that, you know, you need to get momentum for the main street. People need to be

[1:56:10] able to get to green space faster in and the Trafalgar corridor looks quite vacant of green space

[1:56:17] until you push back in, which I appreciate you've contributed by the sounds of things to the community

[1:56:24] park that will eventually get built. I wanted to compliment you on all of the green infrastructure

[1:56:31] that you're espousing, you're going to do, are you going to do heat pumps in all of these facilities?

[1:56:38] Definitely something will be considered too early to tell, but I would suspect so, absolutely.

[1:56:44] Okay. I also wanted to understand a little bit about the walking distance going from the,

[1:56:56] I think it's called, on settlers to Trafalgar.

[1:57:02] I'm just from a walkability perspective.

[1:57:05] Do we know how many minutes that is?

[1:57:07] From the park, let's use the park, it's the far edge.

[1:57:12] From the park, it's about 800, I think it's about 750, 800 meters to walk there.

[1:57:18] So that would be about a 12 to 14 minutes walk.

[1:57:23] Okay, all right.

[1:57:24] So one of my questions to staff is from a transit perspective,

[1:57:28] of which has been one of the challenges that the ward counselors keep helping us raise

[1:57:34] as a concern, is there a transit plan that will work for this neighborhood? So is that

[1:57:41] walking distance such that the fingers crossed rapid bus coming down to a fogger that this

[1:57:51] will actually, you know, ensure that we get people on that bus?

[1:57:56] Yes.

[1:57:59] Yeah.

[1:57:59] If we're able to pull up the presentation again, I can hopefully identify where my understanding

[1:58:04] is of the BRT stops.

[1:58:06] Essentially, there'll be a long-travel at the major intersections.

[1:58:19] Unfortunately, it's a little bit difficult to see, and I'm not even sure if I can control

[1:58:23] the mouse, but I was hoping to see the roads identified on the plan, but as best I can

[1:58:36] described. So along Trafalgar at Burnhamthorpe, you have settlers road, which is where you've

[1:58:42] got the, it says 12 in brackets, 24, then P. That settlers road coming from the west.

[1:58:48] So that will connect with Trafalgar. There will be a BRT stop there. Further south, at the

[1:58:53] bottom of the map where it says NC7, I believe that's Marvin Road. So that's supposed to connect

[1:58:59] as well to Trafalgar. And then further down from that, unfortunately, it's not on the page.

[1:59:03] But you've got wheat, boom, and threshing mill.

[1:59:05] So all of those intersections will have BRT stops to my understanding as thus far in

[1:59:10] the design which started in 2025.

[1:59:13] But for the future recommendation report I can get for the details from transportation

[1:59:17] staff as to the active transportation network and the Oakville Transit network.

[1:59:23] Okay.

[1:59:23] Thank you for that.

[1:59:24] And can you just confirm bike lanes on all of those roads or just on the main?

[1:59:30] Through you remember, now I have to confirm which roads specifically have been identified

[1:59:35] to have bike lanes, whether it's the arterial or collector roads.

[1:59:39] It depends on the road classifications, so I'll have to get details about that.

[1:59:44] Okay, while I have you up, there is a section that talks about establishing a minimum number

[1:59:53] of units for the development and what I'd like to understand is how does that

[2:00:00] Does that benefit the residents?

[2:00:03] Through you, Mayor Burton, in terms of establishing a certain number of units, through discussions with the school boards in order for them to come online and do their programming, they have to do certain evaluations about the number of units and then figure out the population. So, going back to the question about when the school boards would potentially build their sites, I think, as far as community benefits go, having a solid population would allow the school boards to do their work

[2:00:31] to bring those schools online. Further south of this property, if you'll remember, there's the

[2:00:37] IO and Argo Trafalgar lands. So those developments are also bringing schools online. So it really

[2:00:42] depends on the population timing, in my opinion, as to when those schools can come online. And then,

[2:00:48] I believe when I brought the IO application forward, there was questions about pairing park lands

[2:00:54] and active park space with school boards. So I think all of that kind of plays into the question

[2:01:00] you asked about the number of units and the number of residents that will be living and

[2:01:05] living and working and playing in this area. Okay. So that takes me to basically a master plan

[2:01:13] on the borders around this. So when you come back, will we see that in terms of

[2:01:21] you know what that surrounding community will also contribute? Because they change where people go

[2:01:27] to school all the time is my recollection, so understanding the population bordering

[2:01:33] it would also be helpful when you come back, not today.

[2:01:38] I do have a bit of a concern with a minimum number and it's related to what you heard

[2:01:44] from the Ward 7 councillors about size of units.

[2:01:48] So if there's a minimum number that they have to hit and we know that the market is shifted

[2:01:54] and two and three bedrooms need to be, you know, certainly not at 35% certain, that's just like I think that should be a non-starter but if we know or the market shifts even further establishing that minimum number, what happens to the developer who goes,

[2:02:13] well I'm not building the same number of units but I'm building more of what the market has asked for the two and three's, which has incrementally more people in it.

[2:02:22] How does that get addressed for them?

[2:02:31] I'm going to take a stab at this one, and Brandon may help me out.

[2:02:36] Councillor, as the sites develop, as the units are built, as people start to move into

[2:02:42] them, the school boards work through their forecasting of how many students would typically

[2:02:49] be generated out of different type of unit, whether that's for a large department unit, whether

[2:02:56] that's for townhouses, for example, the school board works through those very detailed

[2:03:01] forecasts, both boards, in fact, do that.

[2:03:03] And they do confer with us as well on how that is taking place over time.

[2:03:09] What we have learned from the Halton board is that they are short right now in terms of

[2:03:16] the number of schools based on the number of students which have been generated out of

[2:03:22] the existing housing stock.

[2:03:24] We have predominantly lower density throughout North Oakville, meaning we have a number of

[2:03:32] singles and semis, etc., but they're not generating two students out of these houses.

[2:03:37] They're generating five, in some cases, or more.

[2:03:40] So this has thrown their forecasting out of whack, and that has become a big variable, less

[2:03:47] so on the apartment size, that there's a little bit more predictability out of that.

[2:03:50] So the boards have told us that they need at least three more school sites throughout all of North Oakville.

[2:03:55] We've been working with the board to try to find adequate space to to put schools, but as you know lands a bit of a premium right now in North Oakville

[2:04:03] There isn't any more land to to build on beyond what has already been

[2:04:10] Purchased by by developers for residential purposes. So we're looking at different ways in terms of delivering schools

[2:04:16] whether that's in podium schools, like we've been looking at Midtown, whether that's sharing space with other agencies.

[2:04:24] So we're working with the board to try to find ways to deliver the more school opportunities.

[2:04:31] But that's really only going to be dependent on how accurate they are from a forecasting.

[2:04:35] So once the units start to go in, once we get students generated out of the units,

[2:04:38] they'll have a better compass in terms of how to then look at additional schools

[2:04:44] throughout North Oakville as time goes on.

[2:04:47] It's non-exact science.

[2:04:48] It is going to take some time to work through,

[2:04:50] but they are basing this on the information that they have

[2:04:53] and the information that we're able to give them.

[2:04:55] So I appreciate that explanation,

[2:04:57] and I think lots of people should understand

[2:04:59] that around the schooling piece.

[2:05:01] But if I'm Wester Kirk or whoever's going to build it,

[2:05:05] and it says, your minimum that you have to achieve

[2:05:07] is 6,400 units, and they come back and say,

[2:05:11] Well, actually, as the sites are evolving, I'm below that target.

[2:05:17] But I'm below that target because I'm actually building what people want.

[2:05:21] Not a bird's nest, as Councillor Mirrors said, but something that's got decent size, which

[2:05:26] means my capacity has changed.

[2:05:29] Do they have to come back for a zoning amendment, an OPAA?

[2:05:33] How does this protect them from trying to do the right thing for our community?

[2:05:39] The Board's projections aren't going to be based on one sole development.

[2:05:44] It's going to be cumulative across a number of debalances going to shift over time where

[2:05:51] you're going to have lower population closer to Dundas as the new housing progresses to

[2:05:56] the north and you'll see the population shift.

[2:05:59] And that's what happens as the demographic shift through the municipality.

[2:06:03] So the board constantly has to be in flux to meet those requirements.

[2:06:07] So it's not just the number of students that are being generated out of one development.

[2:06:11] It's going to be what's getting generated out of the entire community and how are they going to accommodate that?

[2:06:15] Similarly, you'll have students who will shift boards as well.

[2:06:18] That puts some additional strain on them.

[2:06:20] People moving, et cetera, as the demographics shift in terms of aging.

[2:06:26] So all of these things have to be weighed by the boards as the community continues to evolve.

[2:06:32] as a mature. But we're putting in an OPA, a minimum number of units. So is that locked in?

[2:06:42] If Westerkirk builds only as they're advancing, the forecast shows that they're not going to

[2:06:48] hit that minimum number. Is there a penalty to them? Through you, Mayor Burton. We would look at

[2:06:55] a minimum units across the majority of Trafalgar Road. That's how Trafalgar has been designed

[2:07:02] as a minimum map SI so that we know that the investment that's going in not just the soft infrastructure like schools et cetera but the hard infrastructure as well, that we're working with the region, for example, to make sure the pipes are sized appropriately.

[2:07:15] So it's not so much that there's a penalty to a developer. It's ensuring that the community overall is going to function and that we are making sure the amenities that are going to support that community are going to be in place.

[2:07:27] Okay, but I think the gentleman understands my point.

[2:07:31] If you need to build these at two and three bedrooms, which is really where people told us

[2:07:35] that we didn't know what we were talking about when we talked about two or three bedrooms

[2:07:38] two years ago.

[2:07:39] And of course the market is now saying, oh, you should have built them bigger as you said earlier.

[2:07:45] So hopefully the logistics of all this make you realize that what's necessary.

[2:07:51] I wanted to just understand what conditions get put in place to ensure deliverable.

[2:07:58] So we've got to phase one, a phase two, a phase three.

[2:08:01] Are there any conditions that the town can put in place to ensure timelines or an ability

[2:08:09] to deliver the development as described in an approved OPA or zoning?

[2:08:16] Are there any conditions or

[2:08:19] sureities that we have?

[2:08:32] Through you, Mayor Burton.

[2:08:33] In terms of working with the applicant, we would look at milestones.

[2:08:39] For example, there's ways to put those in place.

[2:08:41] We can tie deliverance of infrastructure, for example, to staging.

[2:08:47] That's why we have phasing plans to identify what needs to be accomplished at what time.

[2:08:53] There was discussion earlier about ensuring that.

[2:08:56] that the amenities are in place as the population arrives, as Mr. Turkot was saying the intent

[2:09:02] is to ensure those amenities are there as they're moving through.

[2:09:05] So we can put in place those types of conditions, we can use holding provisions, we can use phasing

[2:09:11] as well.

[2:09:12] So there's different things that we can put in place that helps the developer achieve what

[2:09:17] Council's looking for.

[2:09:18] Okay.

[2:09:19] I'm going to just shift now to zoning.

[2:09:20] So when I looked at the zoning amendments, there are sections that talk about an FSI of 5, and yet what you've presented to us today says an overall average of 3, and that's not what the actual zoning, the draft zoning says.

[2:09:39] So are we going to use, I guess to staff, are we using a higher number for a reason?

[2:09:48] Because that's not what their presentation has told us.

[2:09:53] Do you remember in that comment did, as well, get picked up by zoning.

[2:09:56] So it's something that we'll discuss with the applicant as their plans evolve.

[2:10:00] Okay, because there, and there's some sections that say, FSI does not apply.

[2:10:04] Yeah, do you remember in the exact that was caught in the zoning comments on the application that's far?

[2:10:08] Okay, sorry sir, but with densities my thing lately.

[2:10:13] And then my other question is just around the, how do I ask this,

[2:10:23] if the

[2:10:28] OPA right now,

[2:10:30] and I think Brandon, in my conversation with you and asking questions earlier today, the

[2:10:35] OPA talks about 30 stories, but on your picture you're talking about, you're showing I think

[2:10:41] three at 30 stories and the rest are less.

[2:10:45] So are we going to be precise about how many can be at 30 stories if this moves forward?

[2:10:54] Yeah, three remember and if we're able to pull up the presentation again, what

[2:11:04] we've typically

[2:11:04] done with other applications along the Trafalgar corridor and the TUC lands is there's bands

[2:11:12] of heights.

[2:11:13] So if we go here, typically within 0 to 100 meters if you're

[2:11:18] Fulgaro, there would be a certain permission for up to 30 stories.

[2:11:21] And then you would tear down from there so you would have 100 to 300 meters away from

[2:11:25] Trafalgar, it would tear down to their proposing maximum of 24.

[2:11:30] And then outside of 300 meters the maximum looks like it would be 18.

[2:11:34] So we would specify in the opane and the zoning where specifically those heights would be distributed.

[2:11:40] So they more accurately reflect the plans that are being shown.

[2:11:44] So there's bands of heights.

[2:11:46] And it's reflecting what's already in the North Oakvilley's secondary plan,

[2:11:52] but just specific to this site development.

[2:11:55] Okay. With the recognition that I think it's planning that trained us on all this,

[2:12:01] that not all of turf augers going to be 30s.

[2:12:05] If you're a 30, then the one beside you's got to be lower.

[2:12:07] or one beside that might have a different height,

[2:12:10] so there's a variation in height.

[2:12:12] That's all taken into consideration.

[2:12:14] Okay.

[2:12:16] Well, for all the negatives you've heard tonight,

[2:12:18] what I would like to say is that it's good

[2:12:21] to see some green on the map.

[2:12:22] It's good to hear about green infrastructure.

[2:12:26] And in particular, I like that you've got eights and sixes,

[2:12:30] which are really speak to that.

[2:12:32] People don't want to live in the bird.

[2:12:34] They want to be closer to the ground

[2:12:36] And the more you can do that, well, the reality is you will sell those a whole lot easier

[2:12:41] and rent those a whole lot easier than the others.

[2:12:44] So I think with more effort on adding more green space and dealing with the school and

[2:12:52] some of the other pieces, I think that there's something here to be explored.

[2:12:56] And thank you for your time.

[2:12:58] Thank you.

[2:12:59] Thank you, Councillor.

[2:13:00] Councillor Chisholm, it's your turn.

[2:13:03] Thank you.

[2:13:03] Very quickly, I just have a couple of questions or suggestions that we're looking at green

[2:13:08] infrastructure.

[2:13:09] I'd like to highlight the green infrastructure in this development.

[2:13:13] It is a large development to be more creative and come up with a strategic plan for infrastructure

[2:13:19] for green infrastructure.

[2:13:21] I know the gray and we're pushing water out.

[2:13:24] We'd like to see the water be put back into the neighborhood through programs where you

[2:13:30] recycle water into our plants, our parks, and so forth.

[2:13:34] This day and age is to flush it out into gray infrastructure.

[2:13:40] It's gonna be pushed down all the way down probably to the lake.

[2:13:43] If we can maintain that kind of with all the weather problems

[2:13:47] we're having to come up with some type of retention,

[2:13:50] tanks, ponds, and recycling opportunities,

[2:13:53] I'd like to see that highlighted in the future applications

[2:13:58] to come through. We have a real good understanding of green infrastructure, because we're covering

[2:14:02] everything with concrete steel and in asphalt, we need to look at how we're going to manage and

[2:14:10] mitigate mature water conditions for flooding. So I think that is going to be a big, big design

[2:14:19] factor within any development, knowing where our weather patterns are now. So I just leave

[2:14:24] is that and saying let's can we consider looking at a strategic, I don't know if the word strategic

[2:14:29] or a detailed plan of green infrastructure into this development. I'll just leave it to

[2:14:36] that. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor. For a second time may you go back to Councillor Nanda.

[2:14:42] Thank you, through you, Mayor Burton. Thank you so much to my colleagues for all the comments.

[2:14:46] I did just want to go back to the school's comment that my colleague was just speaking about

[2:14:54] specifically just one to first of all say being in this community for as long as I've

[2:15:00] I don't think I've seen a school yet. That is not overpopulated. And even though we continue to build more schools, we still seem to be falling behind. So these two sections that you have for the schools, can you confirm again? Is it just for the public board or for public and Catholic?

[2:15:23] it's both schools are one is for a public it's both are public for primary and for secondary school.

[2:15:34] So what about the Catholic board?

[2:15:37] What about discussions with Catholic board?

[2:15:41] Through you Mayor Burton, sorry, I'm going to keep pulling up this first,

[2:15:57] sorry, can we go back

[2:15:58] slide to the color coded one. Yes, too far. There we go. So, the oval shaped secondary school

[2:16:08] site, I believe, is the Holtin District School Board, and then the smaller rectangular school

[2:16:16] site, I believe, is the Catholic Board, but I will confirm that through the pre-consultation meetings

[2:16:21] that we've had with Tri-Baden, which is the Lands to the South. We've gone comments from the Catholic

[2:16:27] board on that site, and I believe that's their site.

[2:16:31] So then that brings up another big concern, not to have a public school in this area.

[2:16:40] Where

[2:16:45] would the public school be that would be close to there then?

[2:16:51] Through you remember, and I believe, through the IO development, we secured it on the west side

[2:16:58] of Trafalgar.

[2:16:59] But again, it's something that I'll confirm because if you recall, there was the two school

[2:17:02] sites that we added new symbols on, so they are within the area. And they're the new sites

[2:17:07] that were added that weren't planned for originally.

[2:17:10] Okay. So I think we would need to have more discussion because as I said, even if, even

[2:17:16] if we're not even building at the level where my colleague was just saying, if you're not

[2:17:22] even able to build 6,000 in the future, even half of that, I can still guarantee we need

[2:17:28] schools because we continue to build schools and within a year or two they're overpopulated

[2:17:36] and we're building them within our areas that are already built up at the same time that the

[2:17:44] schools are going going so and then my other colleague who earlier said that the schools I got changed

[2:17:50] and they built townhouses and I know that's happened in a couple of areas so to our staff

[2:17:58] it's going to be very important to make sure that if we're going to put this

[2:18:04] population in for these communities that we are going to be able to service

[2:18:09] them properly through everything all the discussions that were had I don't

[2:18:14] want to go through everything now but everything that we've had this is going to be

[2:18:18] one of the most important ones as well thank you thank you Councillor Nanda are

[2:18:25] Are there any members of the public with comments or questions on the file?

[2:18:31] All right.

[2:18:32] Then we need a mover and seconder for the agenda recommendation that the public meeting report

[2:18:39] be received and that the comments from council was respect to the matter be received.

[2:18:46] And the staff consider such comments as maybe as have been provided by council.

[2:18:50] in a mover and seconder, a couple of hands,

[2:18:53] Councillor Nanda, Councillor Shia, thank you.

[2:18:55] Any objection?

[2:18:56] They're being none.

[2:18:57] Council that carries.

[2:19:00] I call your attention to item number three now.

[2:19:03] The confirmation of minutes of the previous P&D council meeting.

[2:19:08] And I ask if you have any questions or corrections.

[2:19:13] And if not, a mover and seconder, Councillor Longo

[2:19:15] and Councillor Giddings, thank you.

[2:19:17] Any objection?

[2:19:18] are being none the minutes are adopted. The advisory committee minutes from Heritage

[2:19:22] Jokeville include a recommendation and we need a mover and a seconder for those.

[2:19:30] Councillor McNeese, thank you. Good to get you on the minutes and Councillor Lago,

[2:19:36] I see your hand. Thank you. Any objection? If being none, that is adopted as well.

[2:19:40] and we have two consent items, the state of housing report and the notice of

[2:19:47] intention to designate $3,269 Dundas Street West. Councillor Elgar.

[2:19:55] Mayor Burton, through you. Thank you very much and I'd like to thank staff for the

[2:19:59] dishousing report. My concern is, you know, it looks like we're supposed to be

[2:20:11] way it's going since January 2023 we're running about 2,384 units a year or 28% lower than

[2:20:20] what we should be doing. So I'm just wondering where we're really projecting we're going to

[2:20:27] be at 2031 because if we continue with this rate we're going to be between 23,024,000 and our staff

[2:20:35] will they be providing an update for forecast gap rather than leaving us to do the math

[2:20:42] ourselves? Like can staff comment on that? It's a bit of a 28% that they did a bit of a gap.

[2:20:51] Director.

[2:20:55] Thank you, Mayor Burton, and through you to the Councilor.

[2:21:00] With the 2026 census coming out

[2:21:03] in the next little while, we're going to have some updated information which is more clear for us right

[2:21:12] we have right now, which is based on the 21 census.

[2:21:16] The other part of it is the forecasting work that we've also been doing.

[2:21:20] So pulling these together, we're going to have some more information available probably

[2:21:24] in early 27 and be able to report back to council at that time.

[2:21:30] I won't give you a specific time because we need to see the timing that we're going to

[2:21:34] get the census information, and that would also be then feeding into the OP review program

[2:21:40] as well. So, Gabe, you're right about the 2026 census per population comes out the end of 2026,

[2:21:51] but it won't be until the end of 2027, we get the housing data from the same report, correct?

[2:21:56] So, is that how well, so that's when you will be coming back with the OP review? That's what you're

[2:22:02] thinking.

[2:22:04] There's a number of different avenues that we're looking at right now,

[2:22:07] Councilor, we do track and you can find this information on the planning and development

[2:22:14] hub on the town's website, which does track how many units we are producing year over

[2:22:20] year. There's a number of variables that you can plug in to get a accurate picture

[2:22:25] of what we've been producing over the last number of years. With that information coupled

[2:22:32] with the census information, we're going to be working further on our forecasting work,

[2:22:37] and that forecasting work is going to help us get a better or a little bit more clarity, perhaps,

[2:22:41] on what that's going to look like for the 2031 timeframe, and how close we're going to be to that

[2:22:46] 33,000 units. Obviously, right now, we're at the mercy of the market, the vast majority of units that

[2:22:53] we've been forecasting have been apartment units. So with the market being in the state that it is,

[2:22:57] obviously is not just Oakville, obviously, but a number of music values are well

[2:23:02] below where they're projecting based on the status of the market. So there's a

[2:23:07] number of variables that we're looking at, and the intent is as we report back,

[2:23:11] especially on the OP review, we're going to have a more clarity on the overall

[2:23:13] projections. So will you be coming back? I agree with what you're saying. Right now

[2:23:20] what a 13,831 units are approved, but not under construction. And we got another

[2:23:26] they're 45,443 under review.

[2:23:30] So, and we've only had 2,104 starts,

[2:23:33] and 1,757 permits happening so far in 2025.

[2:23:38] So, like it's really a doom and gloom right now.

[2:23:41] And I guess I'm thinking, going forward,

[2:23:45] this whole idea of pre-construction

[2:23:47] that isn't happening, how's that going to do

[2:23:50] for infrastructure planning?

[2:23:52] And how the, because now the way the promises changed everything also about collecting DCs,

[2:23:58] it's when they actually move in basically.

[2:24:02] What are we going to do?

[2:24:04] How is that going to impact us going forward from a taxation point of view to get through those trouble times?

[2:24:12] The work that we're doing with Halton region is to identify where the municipality is going to be growing over the next few decades.

[2:24:20] and as the regional counselors will have seen through the regions and

[2:24:25] hands-growth monitoring work, through the IMP work, it's lining up the

[2:24:30] infrastructure to complement where we intend to grow. And that work has been

[2:24:35] back and forth with the region, as you've seen through the Joint Best Plan

[2:24:38] estimates, what is the population that we are planning for? The timing to

[2:24:45] achieve that number obviously is rather inexact. So we want to ensure that the

[2:24:50] infrastructure is going to be there in time for when the population arrives. Our

[2:24:55] biggest challenge right now is ensuring that we're not going to be

[2:24:57] undersizing the infrastructure. So if we have a good partnership with the region

[2:25:02] which we do and how we are forecasting the location and the timing or not

[2:25:07] sorry the timing the capacity for that infrastructure then we have a little bit

[2:25:12] more clarity as to the what I'll say the what that overall population is going to be in time and

[2:25:23] how are we going to support that population.

[2:25:27] So okay also the region has

[2:25:30] downloaded to us the state at the housing report going forward so they're not doing it anymore.

[2:25:36] Can we be assured that all the municipalities are going to use the same indicators going forward?

[2:25:40] like, you know, this work gets interesting. Like, is everybody going to, have we got a commitment

[2:25:46] that everybody's sign saying we will commit to the same indicators and do it exactly the same

[2:25:53] as not written in pencil?

[2:25:57] Through Mayor Burton, the challenge that we have had historically has been

[2:26:03] the accuracy of the housing information. We have a lot more confidence in the numbers that we've

[2:26:10] been generating now because it's real true permit data that we are able to publish.

[2:26:18] And so we have that work available, that is what we're feeding into the region.

[2:26:23] We are much less reliant on CMHC data, for example, which we know had some questions around

[2:26:31] it.

[2:26:32] So as we progress, we have more confidence, we have more

[2:26:35] that the numbers that are being generated are in fact accurate and that we're lining that up with the infrastructure.

[2:26:44] From a costing perspective, that's starting to get out of my wheelhouse a little bit.

[2:26:50] But again, that continues to be something that we work on with the region as well as our own finance team.

[2:26:56] Okay. Well, what you're doing, you need more than a Ouija board, I would agree.

[2:27:02] but just the very end, the vacancy rate I gave, is there any way we can unpack that so that it's

[2:27:09] just not just a blended total? I think we're all learning that the 600 square foot condos aren't

[2:27:17] working so good. On the one bedroom, two bedroom, three bedroom, but can we unpack that so it's not just

[2:27:23] the blended rate of what is the vacancy rate overall is 3.3%. Can we break that down a little bit more?

[2:27:30] through your Mayor Burton. That's certainly something that we can take back

[2:27:33] Councillor and in the next time we report on this we can provide some more

[2:27:37] clarity around that and perhaps break it up a little bit more for you.

[2:27:41] I would appreciate that. Well I probably won't be there but I would appreciate

[2:27:45] that because I think that would really highlight where things where nobody's

[2:27:49] renting certain certain things. So I thank you for the report. It's an important

[2:27:53] report. Gabe don't take it lightly. I appreciate it. So thanks very much to

[2:27:57] staff for doing it. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Councilor. Councilor, how's the deal?

[2:28:04] Thank you. Through you, Mayor Burton. There is a reference in the report regarding a affordable

[2:28:13] housing community improvement plan, and I'm just wondering if you could just clarify the difference

[2:28:20] between it and what Halton region has given us and how they complement or align with one

[2:28:28] another. Through

[2:28:38] you, Mr. Mayor, to the Councillor,

[2:28:41] the work that we've been doing on the community affordable housing community improvement plan

[2:28:45] at the town is really looking at opportunities or programs rather that would provide some sort

[2:28:52] grant or other financial incentive of some sort, for housing within the non-subsidized

[2:29:01] housing bracket and the housing continuum. So Hilton region is really looking at the

[2:29:07] subsidized side, so the kind of assisted housing piece. And then our CIP, as we continue to work

[2:29:17] on it, would look at the non-subsidized housing segment of the housing continuum.

[2:29:21] and specifically rental is one of the big ones.

[2:29:24] Thank you for clarifying that.

[2:29:27] I'm wondering do we know the bankruptcy rate

[2:29:29] of buildings in Oakville?

[2:29:32] Is that tracked?

[2:29:39] I don't have that information through you, Mr. Mayor,

[2:29:43] to the Councillor.

[2:29:43] I don't have that information.

[2:29:44] I'm not sure if that is something that is tracked either.

[2:29:48] Perhaps it's something that we could look at,

[2:29:49] but I don't know if I can comment.

[2:29:55] So the director has a puzzled look, so can you take that back as a...

[2:30:00] Okay, thank you. And then my other question is just around, do we know how we compare in starts versus under construction to similar-sized communities? Is that data available for us?

[2:30:19] Through you, Mr. Mayor, to the Councillor, I'm sure we could find that information in terms of housing starts against other municipalities of similar size. I understand that Oakville is one of the faster-growing municipalities

[2:30:30] and probably has some of the higher amounts of housing starts within the municipalities in Ontario and Toronto region.

[2:30:40] It seems to me that we hear from some folks that we need to do some building in excessive ways,

[2:30:48] and it would be really good to be able to show that track record on a grid, walking them through it,

[2:30:55] maybe some black and white graphs might help them.

[2:30:57] see it. Thanks very much.

[2:31:01] Thank you, Councillor. That being your questions, could I have a mover

[2:31:06] and seconder for the consent items? Councillor Haslet-Thiel, is that your moving and Councillor

[2:31:12] Chisholm, thank you. Any objection? They're being none. The consent items are adopted.

[2:31:16] We now come to the matter of appointing a town Councillor to fill the ward five they can

[2:31:22] see. I'll just remind council that at our last consideration to this, we unanimously

[2:31:28] he asked the Ward 5 Councilor to bring us a nominee and he has diligently completed

[2:31:35] his assignment and he has an alternate motion to replace the one that the staff put in

[2:31:42] the agenda and I'm going to give the floor to Councillor Nol and he's going to walk

[2:31:48] you through his new motion.

[2:31:50] Thank you, Worship.

[2:31:51] If yes, I have found a very worthy candidate in Ward 5 that I think would make an excellent colleague and a very helpful member of our team for the short time left in this term.

[2:32:04] His name is Jamie Bay. He is in the audience with us today.

[2:32:08] The motion that I'm asking you to consider today is that moved by myself and seconded by Councillor Chenna.

[2:32:13] That the report dated August 25th, 2026 from the clerks department respecting the appointment process to fill the vacancy in the office.

[2:32:19] of the Town Council Ward 5 you received and that too the Council identified as

[2:32:24] preferred appointee to fill the vacancy in the Office of Town Council Ward 5.

[2:32:29] Three, the Jamie Baby appointed to fill the Office of Ward 5 Town Council for

[2:32:33] the remainder of the current term of Council and that four, that consent be

[2:32:37] obtained from the preferred appointee and the staff be directed to prepare the

[2:32:40] necessary appointment by law for consideration of the September 8th planning and

[2:32:44] development council meeting. So that's my motion that I'd like

[2:32:49] I'd like to put on the floor and once it's an order, I'll speak to it briefly.

[2:32:54] Well, I'd like to thank you very much, Councillor Neill.

[2:32:56] Mr. Bay, would you come to the Center podium, please?

[2:33:00] There's a ceremonial question I have to ask you.

[2:33:02] Do you consent to the appointment?

[2:33:04] I do, Mr. Mayor.

[2:33:05] Thank you.

[2:33:05] Thank you very much for giving your consent.

[2:33:08] Councillor Neill.

[2:33:10] Thank you, Worship.

[2:33:11] I think, first of all, with great respect to our dear friend who's passed,

[2:33:16] I know that it's been challenging in the last few weeks to manage the case flow in Ward 5.

[2:33:24] He was hospitalized for a while and not well before that.

[2:33:28] So there's quite a bit of backlog and certainly as the ward council are trying to maintain that,

[2:33:33] particularly at a time when there's a lot of interest in the public sector.

[2:33:40] Certainly be helpful to have somebody like Jamie.

[2:33:42] Jamie brings with him as a member, he's a minister of religion and his occupation, his full-time

[2:33:49] occupation is actually serving his congregation and being an advocate and all those sorts of things.

[2:33:55] So he has that automatic skill set built into his experience. Mr. Bay doesn't have any political

[2:34:01] ambitions, so we're not appointing somebody to give me a leg up at some future election. He's

[2:34:06] simply wanting to do good public service.

[2:34:09] Jamie has served our community for many years.

[2:34:13] Previously he was one of the pastors at Chartwell Baptist Church,

[2:34:17] which is when I got to become acquainted with Jamie.

[2:34:19] Jamie and myself and my wife and a few others,

[2:34:21] we started the North Oakville Food Drive.

[2:34:24] That still continues this day,

[2:34:26] where we raise literally thousands and thousands

[2:34:28] of pounds of food once a year in June

[2:34:31] to help fortify the food banks throughout the community.

[2:34:33] Jamie was an integral part of that.

[2:34:34] Jamie served as various roles for many, many years in the Oak Park neighborhood center

[2:34:39] in the Oak Park community.

[2:34:40] And frankly, it's just one heck of a really good guy that I would be very honored to have

[2:34:46] your consent to appoint him that could help me in the last weeks and help our constituents

[2:34:51] in the last weeks of this council to do our job and to serve our constituents to the best

[2:34:55] of our ability.

[2:34:56] Thank you, Councillor Neill.

[2:34:58] Speakers, we have Councillor Hazlitt deal.

[2:35:00] Thank you. Mayor Burton. My mind is a question. I feel for my council colleague. September 28th is a long ways away.

[2:35:11] Based on what I'm reading in the second part. Would it be an immediate appointment? Or because it...

[2:35:17] Councillor, you're reading a lecture. What Councillor Nol has introduced is an immediate appointment.

[2:35:23] Okay. All right. I just wanted to clarify because Lord knows it's not fair that you don't have help.

[2:35:27] Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Councillor.

[2:35:29] Thank you, Councillor Giddings.

[2:35:32] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Jeff, I fully support your selection.

[2:35:38] I have had the opportunity to be in a number of meetings with Jamie in another municipality

[2:35:42] in a different world and have always find him to be prepared, well-spoken,

[2:35:49] a little bit of humor, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[2:35:54] And I'm going to, while he won't be politicized, I think he'd be used to it as a result of his calling anyway.

[2:36:04] So, great choice, Jeff. Thanks.

[2:36:07] Thank you, Councillor Goodings.

[2:36:10] All right. I see no more questions.

[2:36:12] And so I'm going to call the vote. I'm going to ask for the ceremony of it.

[2:36:17] I'm going to ask for a recorded vote and turn to the clerk and ask him to conduct the vote.

[2:36:21] Thank you, Mayor.

[2:36:23] Councillor O'Meara?

[2:36:24] Yes.

[2:36:25] Councillor McNeese?

[2:36:26] Yes.

[2:36:27] Councillor Dettick?

[2:36:29] Yes.

[2:36:29] Councillor Chisholm?

[2:36:31] Yes.

[2:36:32] Councillor Haditheel?

[2:36:33] Yes.

[2:36:34] Councillor Giddings?

[2:36:35] Yes.

[2:36:35] Councillor Elgar?

[2:36:36] Yes.

[2:36:37] Councillor Longa?

[2:36:38] Yes.

[2:36:39] Mayor Burton?

[2:36:40] Yes.

[2:36:40] Councillor Noel?

[2:36:41] Yes.

[2:36:42] Councillor Adams?

[2:36:42] Yes.

[2:36:43] Councillor Lishina?

[2:36:44] Wholeheartedly, yes.

[2:36:46] Councillor Nanda?

[2:36:47] Yes.

[2:36:47] Councillor Shee.

[2:36:48] Yes.

[2:36:50] Congratulations, Councillor.

[2:36:53] Welcome to the scene.

[2:36:57] That is carried.

[2:37:02] As a matter of fact, there are people here on staff who would like to see you after the show.

[2:37:11] So please don't go.

[2:37:12] Well, I have an item of new business, a notice of motion, for which we need to, I'm going

[2:37:23] to ask you to wave the bylaw so that we can pass it tonight, and I circulated that

[2:37:29] earlier so that you all know it's about honoring a distinguished citizen of Oakville who

[2:37:37] It was passed, Mr. Otto Gelanick.

[2:37:42] I have a hand from Peter Longo and Councillor Dutton.

[2:37:45] Thank you.

[2:37:46] Is there any objection to waving the, there is no objection, Mr. Clerk, and so that carries.

[2:37:52] The motion reads, whereas, and this is seconded by Councillor Richeson, whereas and moved

[2:38:00] by me, whereas Otto Gelanick passed away on September 5, leaving behind an extraordinary

[2:38:06] legacy of international and athletic achievement, public service, and deep roots in our Oakville

[2:38:13] community. And whereas after fleeing communism in Czechoslovakia in 1948, Otto and his family

[2:38:20] found refuge and made their new home in Oakville where he attended Applebee College and Oakville

[2:38:27] Trafalgar High School. And whereas he proudly represented Oakville and Canada on the world stage as

[2:38:34] World Class Figure Skater, ultimately capturing the 1962 World Figure Skating

[2:38:41] Pairs Championship with his sister Maria and represented Canada as an Olympian.

[2:38:48] And whereas he served Oakville with distinction for over two decades in Ottawa as a member of parliament

[2:38:54] and the federal cabinet minister.

[2:38:56] And later as Canada's ambassador to the Czech Republic.

[2:38:59] And whereas following a highly successful international business career as a corporate

[2:39:05] executive and consultant, auto returned home to Oakville to spend his retirement years

[2:39:10] surrounded by family and friends, be it resolved that the rink within the Trafalgar

[2:39:15] Park Community Center at 133 Rebecca Street be commemoratively recognized as the auto-genic

[2:39:23] rink in honor of auto-genic and be it further resolved that staff be directed to take the

[2:39:29] necessary steps to implement the commemorative naming of the auto-gellenic

[2:39:33] rank and that the 30-day public engagement period required under the facility and

[2:39:39] indoor asset naming policy be waived and be it further resolves that staff be

[2:39:44] authorized to coordinate an appropriate public recognition and unveiling ceremony

[2:39:49] in consultation with the Gellenic family.

[2:39:53] I hope for your unanimous consent to this.

[2:39:55] I will tell you that I have consulted with the family and this is in keeping with their preferences.

[2:40:02] Councillor O'Meara.

[2:40:04] Thank you, Your Worship, and I wholeheartedly support this as well, and I would maybe add

[2:40:08] that the next term of council consider something that we passed over on in the last term of

[2:40:14] budget, and that was getting serious about a sports hall of fame.

[2:40:18] Because right now we don't have one in a location, and someone like Otto Gelanick and Sandra

[2:40:22] are posting these people deserve to be reflected and to be honored for their achievements in

[2:40:27] sport, and he obviously did much more than that, but it is something that we should have

[2:40:32] a home for somewhere, so to go with this lovely, lovely sentiment as well, just something

[2:40:38] that I think he deserves to be recognized for his sport endeavors as well with others

[2:40:44] and Oakville, so thank you, all right, thank you for bringing the motion forward.

[2:40:47] Thank

[2:40:51] you, Councillor O'Mara. Councillor Chisholm.

[2:40:54] For you, your worship and to do the council.

[2:40:57] It's very disheartening what's happened with the family

[2:41:01] and with the passing of Otto Hiesa, our next door,

[2:41:05] and also our next door neighbor.

[2:41:06] Otto and I have had many conversations over the years

[2:41:09] and we became good friends because of the competitiveness

[2:41:12] of Otto and also with me and Hockey and him and the skating.

[2:41:18] It was very interesting to listen to auto over the years, the challenges he had with the

[2:41:26] communism and going back and coming back to Canada, and it's very fitting for this

[2:41:33] announcement at Oakville Arena because at that time when they won in 1962, I was 9 years

[2:41:39] old, and we went to attend the big parade and also the gathering in Oakville, Arena.

[2:41:47] At that time, there was no ice in it on the arena because it was a summer. It was packed.

[2:41:52] It was packed to the brim. I was so amazed at the number of people in the black cards

[2:41:58] congratulating the genics on their success of the world skating championship. It was something

[2:42:03] for Oakville and it made Oakville on the map and it was a fantastic time. And at nine

[2:42:09] years old, I remembered it very, very well. Knowing the challenge for many years living

[2:42:16] in our neighborhood with, I'm hoping that the family will move forward after this lead

[2:42:23] is a wonderful, wonderful wife and mother and with Misha and Jamie, the two sons. My heart

[2:42:29] Phil, I'm sorry for the passing of auto, but this legacy still continues on here in Oakville and congratulations to the family and it's a great honor. Thank you.

[2:42:44] Thank you, Councillor Chisholm. Councillor Rilgar.

[2:42:48] Mayor Burton, I just want to say, let's have a recorded vote so that it's in the minutes. I appreciate that. Thank you.

[2:42:53] Yes, sir. I think that was Kathy's idea as well. With no other speakers, I'll turn to the clerk and ask him to conduct a vote.

[2:43:04] Councillor Mira. Yes. Councillor McNeese. Yes. Councillor Dettick. Yes. Councillor Chisholm.

[2:43:12] Absolutely. Yes. Councillor Hussetheel. Yes. Councillor Giddings. Yes. Councillor Algar. Yes.

[2:43:18] Councilor Longo. Yes. Mayor Burton. Yes. Councilor Noel. Yes. Councilor Adams. Yes.

[2:43:24] Councilor Lyschina. Yes. Councilor Nanda. Yes. Councilor Xi. Yes.

[2:43:32] Thank you. That carries unanimously.

[2:43:35] I understand there may be a request for a report. That's the next item on our agenda.

[2:43:40] Councillor Shia, did you have something? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I have a new business as well.

[2:43:52] I'd like to invite all the Oakville residents to join us for the third Asian Heritage Festival

[2:43:57] on Saturday, September 19th at the Foley Park in War 7. This festival is organized by the

[2:44:04] Hotel Asian Heritage Society and everyone is welcome. The festival runs from 11 a.m. to 8 p.m.

[2:44:11] followed by a film, a family movie sponsored by Film.ca. There will be lots of great food and snacks,

[2:44:17] live performance and the free bouncy castles for children and the showcase from local business

[2:44:24] in the community organizations. We are looking forward to seeing you on September 19th at Foley Park.

[2:44:29] Thank you.

[2:44:33] Thank you, Councillor Schia. Councillor Neill.

[2:44:36] Thank you. We're ship on another community announcement. I want to invite everybody in this

[2:44:40] council chambers, everybody who's watching, to the 29th annual Oak Park Fall Fair, which is going to

[2:44:45] be taking place and how fitting the former chair of Oak Park and

[2:44:49] Neighborhood Centers in the audience and our new colleague.

[2:44:51] It will be taking place this Saturday, starting at 11 o'clock in the morning and

[2:44:55] going through to our outdoor movie, approximately 10 o'clock at night.

[2:45:00] As always, every year, we have thousands and thousands of local residents visit our fair for what is effectively a very inexpensive, if not entirely free day of fun activities for families, young and old. We have a great silent auction. Funds are being raised. Go to the charitable programs and objects of the Oak Park Neighborhood Center. Virtually the exhibitors are who's who of Oakville organizations and businesses coming to tell the community about the things that they do. There's rides, there's great food.

[2:45:30] and there's an outdoor movie and we're playing Toy Story 5, which is the latest in the Toy Story franchise in the evening.

[2:45:36] Again, all free, lots of fun. Please come and join us on Saturday, September 12th, from 11 a.m. to 10 p.m.

[2:45:43] and most of you have been there at one point or another. I think you can all attest to the fact it is a great fun day and I look forward to seeing you all there.

[2:45:49] That's real soon now. Councillor Chisholm.

[2:45:56] Thank you, Worship. I'm just reminding everybody it's Kirtfest happening on Kirt Street this weekend.

[2:46:01] Friday, Saturday and Sunday, lots of entertainment, great entertainment, reasonably priced. Hopefully you can attend.

[2:46:10] It's a great two or three days on first street, and we look forward to seeing everyone there. That's it for me. Thank you.

[2:46:17] Councillor Schism, I heard a story that a certain singer that I'm very, very big fan of might be there. Do you know who their musical acts are?

[2:46:27] Oh, geez. Which one are you talking about? I'm hoping to hear that Jim Cuddy will be there again. Oh, yeah, Jim will be there.

[2:46:36] Jim Cuddy will be there. There you go. Well, you know, he has a song there. He has a song that he and Greg have a song about Lake Ontario, which might be fun to sing along with.

[2:46:48] All right, I think that brings us to, let's be clear, it's Lake Ontario.

[2:46:54] That's right.

[2:46:55] All right.

[2:46:56] So item 11 on the agenda, the request for reports, is there one?

[2:47:01] Councillor Haslet-Deal.

[2:47:02] Thank you, through you Mayor Burton.

[2:47:04] Councillor Giddings and I would like to make a request for report.

[2:47:09] On April 9th, 2026, the province announced the approval of MZOs for the mid-town TOCs,

[2:47:15] which included a statement that, unquote, in response to feedback received from the town and the community.

[2:47:21] Ontario is working with municipality and impacted partners on further refinements to the Oakville TOC.

[2:47:28] That will result in building heights of 38 stories while maintaining the overall number of homes and community benefits.

[2:47:34] Unquote, the request is the town staff and Mayor Burton and his staff are requested to provide on September 28, 2026.

[2:47:44] reports on the status of the TOC discussion.

[2:47:49] Is there any objection to that request?

[2:47:53] There being none, that's approved.

[2:47:56] Councillor Chisholm.

[2:48:00] My apologies, your worship.

[2:48:01] I didn't have the schedule in front of me.

[2:48:03] I lost it.

[2:48:04] So everybody's the interest in the performers.

[2:48:08] Colin James is playing Friday night.

[2:48:10] Hotel California, the original Eagles Tributes,

[2:48:13] playing Friday night.

[2:48:13] five, fiddle six, gates open at 3.45 p.m. Saturday, the Jim Cutty Band, 7.45, Freedom Train,

[2:48:23] the box, Bill Durst, Janow Woods, and the gates open at 11.45 a.m. There we go.

[2:48:29] All right, now you know how to, you've now promoted that event. Congratulations to everybody.

[2:48:36] That brings us to consideration and reading of the bylaws and there's a little wrinkled

[2:48:39] tonight.

[2:48:40] First, before we do consideration of reading of the by-laws, I need a motion to waive the rules under section 2 sub 2 of the procedure by-law

[2:48:48] concerning the notice provision in section 8. And so we need a mover and seconder for that. I have a volunteer in Councillor Shia, and in Councillor Nanda.

[2:48:59] And is there any objection? They're being none. That's carried. And now we need a mover and seconder for consideration and reading of the by-laws.

[2:49:07] and that can be Councillor Longo and Councillor Chinna, any objection? They're being none.

[2:49:13] The bylaws have been read, considered and passed and that ends the work of this meeting.

[2:49:20] It's been terrific working with you. I'm looking forward to the next time and good night.

Planning and Development Council

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