Name: Ojai City Council Regular Meeting
Duration: 4 h 33 min 48 s
Description: That's always a big issue using groundwater, generally it's a bad thing in this state because we have way over used groundwater in most places.

[0:01] Hello, everyone. We are returning from the closed session and anything to report out, Mr. Summers, Mr. Harvey.

[0:10] Yes, all start. So, the council met in closed sessions, considered three items. Mr. Highway will report out the first item.

[0:15] All report out the second and third, which are both related to a potential code enforcement case at 1-1-1-7 sunset place, regarding potential initiation litigation and potential anticipatory litigation.

[0:26] And on that matter, the Council has provided direction to staff and council, particularly directing renewed efforts, pursuing a solution to the code enforcement problems at that property in consultation with the code enforcement team, the can development team, city attorney's office and the Ventura County Sheriff's office.

[0:43] More to follow as it is reportable.

[0:45] Thank you.

[0:45] Mr. Harvey.

[0:47] Thank you, Mr. Summers, for the first close session.

[0:51] I'm happy to report out the City Council directed staff to post an RF key.

[0:56] By the end of this week, the city's current city attorney firm is invited and encouraged to participate in this process.

[1:05] There will be a city social media post to follow the documents what we are doing.

[1:11] The RFQ will be a 45 day submittal period.

[1:15] Results will be reviewed by the city council at the end of the process.

[1:19] All qualified firms and or candidates will be reviewed by the city council with a selected number asked to interview

[1:26] with the full city council. Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Harvey Mr. Summers. With that we will

[1:31] lead you in the close session and begin the open session. Welcome here everyone.

[1:39] Roll call please Mr.

[1:40] Montgomery. Yes Mayor Mayor Gilman. Here Mayor Protendling. Here council member rule. Here council member

[1:46] Whitman. Here council member May. Here. And the pledge of allegiance please. Yes Mayor.

[1:51] welcome community please rise as you are able. Ready begin. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and

[2:01] To the Republic or which stands one nation under high and the physical and the

[2:08] routine.

[2:16] Any changes to the agenda from the council?

[2:22] Move to approve. I'll move to approve.

[2:24] Second that. All of us in favor. Hi. Hi. Any changes over here? You guys are okay with the agenda?

[2:31] Yes. Okay. Great. Any commission reports?

[2:36] None that I know of there. All right. So we will move on to public communications.

[2:46] Mac, please, uh, Ron Salarsano, Winnie Major, and then Mariah. I believe it's Mac.

[2:58] Sorry if I misread that.

[3:00] Hello. All right. Hello, everybody. Members of council. I am Ron Salarsano, the regional librarian for the Ohio

[3:09] And I just wanted to give a couple of updates on what we have going on at the library.

[3:14] I want to start with an ongoing film series that we have at the library.

[3:20] We've been experimenting a lot more with screening movies at the library on Mondays and Thursdays.

[3:24] And we're going to continue that between May 19th and June 16th with screenings at noon on Mondays.

[3:32] And then, at 5 p.m. on Thursdays, we're going to be showing a selection of films and the meeting room behind the library.

[3:40] Because of the way our license works, we're not able to publicize the titles directly.

[3:44] But if you're curious, you can come by the library or give us a call and we can tell you what's showing in a given week.

[3:50] So we're calling this program Showtime at the Ohio Library.

[3:53] So feel free to stop by.

[3:54] We're also going to probably put some information on our website.

[3:58] So yeah, hopefully you can stop by for that.

[4:00] I also want to mention that we're going to be getting into not quite yet but soon, our summer

[4:05] reading season.

[4:06] The summer reading program this year is going to start on June 9th and we'll continue

[4:10] through August 3rd.

[4:11] There's going to be a program both for adults and for children, the adult program for readers

[4:17] over 18, more or less consists of readers logging each book that they read through our online

[4:25] platform Beanstack.

[4:26] You'll be able to access it through our website.

[4:28] You will log the books that you read, every book that you read gives you a chance to win a prize with a library.

[4:35] We're also going to be doing some company activities like Bingo.

[4:38] You'll get a Bingo style card that you can read, read certain books and check out boxes and then all that.

[4:45] So there will be some fun engagement and then the youth program, you're logging minutes read typically.

[4:50] So, for the children who are doing reading and logging their minutes, their grand prize is going to be a set of season.

[5:02] So, again, feel free to get in touch with us at the library or go online for more information. And then the last thing I wanted to mention, this has been in the paper recently, but the Ohio Library is partnering with the Ohio Valley Land Conservancy and a few other local landscape architects and other volunteers on a project to rewild the Ohio Library's courtyard on front of the library.

[5:25] So we're still in the early planning stages. I think we're we're about to be entering into some of the fundraising stages for that

[5:32] But keep your ears open for more details if you're curious at all again

[5:35] You can stop by the library and give me a call whatever you'd like and yeah, that's all we've got for now. Even a rough time frame on the wild

[5:43] Yeah, sure. So the re-wilding is gonna happen after another renovation that's gonna happen inside the library

[5:49] That first renovation is at earliest going to start in August of this year. So the re-wilding project is probably going to start early 2026.

[5:59] Alright. Thank you so much.

[6:02] Thanks.

[6:04] Winnie Major.

[6:06] And then Mariah Mack if I'm pronouncing that correctly.

[6:09] And then Joseph Puglia.

[6:11] Puglia.

[6:23] Thank you.

[6:27] Hello, Mr. Mayor.

[6:28] Council members and staff.

[6:30] I'm Winnie Major, and I've lived at Ohio my life, and I'm a big trolley writer.

[6:37] I am two to complications with Epsurgery.

[6:41] The doctors had to amputate my right driving leg, leaving me unable to drive.

[6:47] I mentioned this for two reasons.

[6:49] One, the trolley which is handicapped accessible, is extremely important in my life.

[6:56] I specifically bought a mobile home in a park where the trolley stop was right outside the trolley and city bus was at the end of the street.

[7:08] And secondly, what happened to me could also happen to you and you could be left without transportation and the ability to drive.

[7:17] I've used the trolley for decades now and I depend on it on Sundays to get to church.

[7:24] And I've done that for many years, but not now, because there is no trolley service on Sundays.

[7:31] But many writers use the trolley on Sundays to go to church, farmer's market, oh, my functions,

[7:40] gets together with families and on and on.

[7:43] But now you have stopped at Sunday trolley all together.

[7:48] as well as a random time throughout the week when there is no driver available.

[7:57] I don't understand why you don't hire more drivers.

[8:00] Many people have applied, even my knee supplied.

[8:04] But we're hopeful, especially after you hired Anthony as a trolley supervisor,

[8:10] it seemed promising he would often ride the trolley with us and ask for our input.

[8:16] He's a very kind and helpful man, and we thought things were looking up, but now Anthony has disappeared

[8:24] and

[8:24] Did we just want to know what's going on?

[8:28] Please hire some drivers to me. It's

[8:31] People don't realize what an important resource it is unless

[8:36] You're in our shoes. In my case my shoe

[8:40] So I ask you to put yourself in in my shoes or shoes

[8:47] And put some time and effort into getting driver's place.

[8:52] It's just a valuable resource to the community.

[8:55] And we're blessed to have it.

[8:57] Thank you for hearing me out.

[8:59] Thank you, Ms. Major.

[9:00] Thank you.

[9:01] And this is a little out of term, but Mr. Alameda, would you mind?

[9:04] I've heard you give a kind of an update about the trolley.

[9:07] Would you mind doing that now?

[9:08] Because I imagine there might be a couple of other comments related to the trolley.

[9:11] I know I'm putting you on the spot and you're unprepared.

[9:13] more than happy to do so that is correct and unfortunately we have

[9:20] paused the Sunday service due to not having drivers to cover Sunday, but we are

[9:24] actively recruiting to play strivers before a while now. The service has been

[9:30] paused for a while but we're looking to restart. Sunday service has been

[9:34] paused for a while but we're looking to restart it. Once we have the driver

[9:38] I was hoping it's just so that Mr. Alameda could just give sort of a brief report, but not a back and forth quite if that's okay.

[9:46] No, that's okay.

[9:47] But we did just purchase two new trollies, or two use trollies that we're going to start using in our service.

[9:52] I don't know if you want to mention that again, Mr. Alameda.

[9:55] Yeah, so overall we are looking to hire additional drivers.

[9:58] We've been actively doing that.

[10:01] We do have an interim supervisor just joined us this week and is looking at the applications as well.

[10:09] Fortunately, this last weekend, we took delivery of two new trolleys, which will allow us to return the B-Route when we get the drivers to do that.

[10:17] And those trolleys are road ready, so they're going through inspection now and we'll be painted.

[10:22] So we've made some investments in Trolley to

[10:25] Read state and state the service where we have both the airouts and the rerout's fully functional

[10:30] Well, I've been trying to ignore the metal butter on

[10:33] I know, please. Yes. Oh, yeah, once again. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you

[10:40] Mariah Mac

[10:41] Joseph Pugliera, Pugliera and then Larry Mozer

[10:46] Thank you, Miss Alvita. I'm actually got wrong. It's Mariah Mall not Mac. I'm sorry

[10:51] M-A-L-L no it's M-A-H-L M-A-H-L sorry about that okay M-A-H-L got it yeah I am

[10:59] or I am all I read the trolley three to four times a day I depend on it for

[11:04] doctors appointments and I was told that there someone said there was five

[11:09] trolley drivers that's not correct there's only three I live in minor zox and I

[11:16] on it, yeah, for mainly for doctor's appointments. And for lately there hasn't been

[11:22] no trolley on Sunday, which has been a bit disappointment for like church. And I guess

[11:29] the main thing why I came tonight is because we really need more trolley drivers. And

[11:34] another trolley would be great because there's only one.

[11:40] And then also I have friends

[11:41] that live in whispering oaks. And like when he said, it doesn't go inside there anymore, it

[11:45] across the street, which I just think is kind of insane when you're 80 years old, they can't really cross the street.

[11:52] But anyways, yeah, so I think my main thing is just I think that more trolley drivers would be beneficial and another trolley and yeah, I mean, I really depend on it, I use it almost daily and I guess I'm done sharing.

[12:09] Thank you so much. This is good. No, I appreciate it.

[12:12] Joseph Puglia, Larry Moser, and Carlene Sokorsky,

[12:18] Sikorsky, probably Miss Parnatzi, that.

[12:20] Thank you.

[12:23] Good evening.

[12:25] My name is Dr. Joe Puglia.

[12:27] I'm speaking on behalf of Mr. Palashius.

[12:30] I have an undergraduate degree in Philosophy and Literature

[12:34] of Masters in Counseling Psychology and a PhD in Education

[12:37] with an emphasis in sports psychology.

[12:39] I was a college professor counseled veterans with PTSD and a columnist for the Los Angeles Times

[12:47] syndicated newspapers.

[12:48] I'm a published author, a national lecturer, and a former Marine officer, thus by commenced

[12:54] American Civil Relitity.

[12:56] I served in Vietnam, Commanding and Marine Patoon, was a company executive officer and operations

[13:01] officer of a Marine Expeditionary Unit and had command and staff responsibilities at Marine

[13:06] Headquarters.

[13:07] Thus, I consider myself an excellent judge of character.

[13:12] I have known Mr. Palachias for ten months.

[13:15] He embodies the course ethos, honor, courage, and commitment.

[13:21] He is affable, he's engaging, he's helpful, and I've even seen him open the door for

[13:27] customers entering Ophi coffee roasters.

[13:31] Here is a young man who, by his service, would give his life for you.

[13:36] And this is how you treat a veteran, how dare you.

[13:41] Memorial Day is two weeks away.

[13:44] Must I remind you of its significance?

[13:47] Carl, when you were at Lock and Yada,

[13:50] you supported every Memorial Day commemoration

[13:52] which I was a chair of, what happened?

[13:56] A leader must be worthy of leadership.

[13:58] Mr. Harvey, how you treated this veteran

[14:01] tells me you are not worthy of leadership.

[14:03] Management speculates, since Mr. Polasius is a disabled veteran, with PTSD diagnosis he's capable

[14:11] of errant behaviors, subjecting others to danger. Are any of you clinical psychologists capable

[14:19] of making such assumptions? I've had PTSD since 1970 and never spent a minute in a straight

[14:26] Mr. Harvey, how dare you paint veterans suffering from PTSD and such a light?

[14:34] Research contends PTSD symptoms result when one is simulates into a society that is not nurturing.

[14:43] Such is the environment of Mr. Harvey has created.

[14:48] Mr. Polasius received counseling or mentorship?

[14:52] I don't think so.

[14:53] Sir, there's no passing the buck on this one.

[14:57] Management hidden agenda is so blatantly off.

[15:00] I'm embarrassed for you. Have some intellectual honesty. And just say you want to get rid of him. Don't use his disability against him. Gentlemen, write this down. It's on the final.

[15:14] Managers do things right leaders do the right thing. If you want to save yourself from yourself

[15:21] Do the right thing. Mr. Palocious is a credit to this town

[15:26] Thank you

[15:28] Larry Moser

[15:30] Carlene Sikorski and a Nick out of way

[15:38] Larry Moser

[15:40] Oh, yes, thank you.

[15:48] Ah, they shouldn't have paved it

[16:01] ride off the trail and onto that and try to get back on the bike path and slam down on the pavement,

[16:09] but I'm on the man. I just came to speak on behalf of Anthony. I can't

[16:15] pull off the seal, it's at any pronounced as last name. Anyhow, I was in the Navy during Vietnam,

[16:24] and some of that, and he's been really kind to me trying to help me get some benefits out of him.

[16:32] But anyhow, this guy's, he just says a lot of character, I've seen him working around

[16:39] City Hall, I've done some science form, and he'll light up the place when he's walking

[16:43] down the hallway.

[16:44] People come out and start laughing and talking, he's just, he's got a lot on the ball, he's

[16:49] a very successful, driven guy in a compassionate way.

[16:55] So I hope you can get reinstated because he's the kind of energy that the city needs to

[17:01] that it's uplifting, it's positive, you know, he thinks things through he's

[17:07] open to hearing other people's opinions, just to really neat neat guy and I

[17:12] think he's going to be successful in his life and the city would be much better

[17:16] for having around and he's already proven that if you talk to people he's worked

[17:20] with and these around I think the pretty much everybody has good things to say

[17:27] I'm so I just came to speak on his behalf, you know, thanks very much.

[17:33] Thank you, sir.

[17:36] Carlene, Psychorski, Nick Autoway, and Patrick Holmes.

[17:42] Good evening.

[17:44] I would like to thank the council, the mayor, for having us here today.

[17:49] I know you guys have a lot to do and it's an honor to speak before you.

[17:55] When I considered Ohio as a place to live 25 years ago, I made sure to ask my friend if there

[18:03] was a public transportation available. As I have an eye impairment, it doesn't allow me to

[18:09] drive, and you wouldn't want me to drive. She said, Carlyne, you'd love, though, high-trolly.

[18:17] And I did, and it was great, and it served me well until it didn't, about six to nine months ago.

[18:27] Too many times to count, I have stood at my stop and wondered, is it truly late? Is it coming at all?

[18:37] And then, well, I guess I have to walk again.

[18:41] The heat is coming and walking will not be a viable option.

[18:47] When the driver goes to lunch, there is no service.

[18:52] When the driver has a pre-approved doctor's appointment, there is no service.

[18:58] I hate to think that the driver gets sick, there will be no service.

[19:04] And as people have said, on Sundays, we're as church going people, there is no service.

[19:13] Back up drivers, communication between the trolley office and the widers.

[19:20] I think would be the key to keep us widers, happily on our way.

[19:27] I ride the trolley twice a day or try to.

[19:31] And I would like to see trolley discounts come back. These are these little tokens that we got that used to be on the trolley for 20 years.

[19:41] And we would pay as we go on get like 30 or 25 dollars or something like that. They haven't been available for six months.

[19:52] And so in closing, I'd like to thank you for your kindness. Thank you for what you're doing for our city.

[20:00] Thank you for keeping the tally running consistently.

[20:04] Thank you very much. Nick Audey, Patrick Holmes, and then Nancy Audey.

[20:15] Oh, wait.

[20:17] Oh, wait. Sorry, I've only known you for 15 years. Give me 15 more, and I'll get it right.

[20:25] I'm a local architect, I sat in the coffee roaster, counting the people passing the pedestrian walkway in front of the coffee house, and I've been doing that for probably 20 years.

[20:42] And the numbers are the same, it's nine to one.

[20:49] One car will have more than one person in it.

[20:53] Nine will have none.

[20:57] And I think that says a lot about how we respond socially

[21:05] to the problems of a community.

[21:08] we need to think socially not singularly and I use the public transportation to

[21:19] trolley at least a couple of times a week my son lives over in minor

[21:26] soaks and I'm actually have a residence which is outside the city so I would

[21:35] you as City Council and City Manager to think about working with the county in

[21:46] expanding the trolley. Going to the east end, I've begun a list of people who live

[21:55] at the east end who would gladly have the trolley go to the corner of

[22:02] now or McAndrew and Grant. And I've talked to the people of the Thatcher who already

[22:11] bring their people here, people living there and the students to the town on the weekends,

[22:19] particularly now, the spring and summer and fall. So I would urge you to keep that in your head.

[22:28] It is public transportation, which is one of the potential glues to pulling this valley together.

[22:38] Not only as a governmental reality, but as a social reality.

[22:44] I'm not a socialist, but I'm a social person.

[22:48] And I would urge you think the same way.

[22:52] Thank you.

[22:52] Thank you, sir.

[22:56] Patrick Holmes, Nancy Oatway, and Alicia Morenes, it looks like.

[23:03] Good evening, Council.

[23:04] Hello.

[23:05] Yeah, I'm Patrick Holmes, and I was hired last December to drive the trolley, which I did

[23:11] personally. And I was given the opportunity to be trained actually by the city.

[23:18] I went over to Gold Coast and I studied very hard. I did classroom on the road training

[23:24] and got my license and passenger endorsement and in driving the last months we've had

[23:36] problems obviously with the lack of drivers and I know that our riders do

[23:46] really depend on reliable transportation. I think somebody else mentioned this

[23:50] that if you're going to the doctor's appointment

[23:54] and you're waiting out there and waiting an hour,

[23:56] two hours, nothing's come.

[23:58] It's very, everyone, it's very disappointing

[24:01] to have that happen.

[24:03] And that compiled with, let's say, students going

[24:07] to school, people trying to get to work.

[24:10] If they can't rely on this mode of transportation

[24:12] that we're supposedly offering the public,

[24:15] it's going to start to deteriorate the ridership.

[24:18] I actually volunteered my Sundays for about two months to drive because I was told that we were

[24:25] going to get more drivers.

[24:30] So, these are time of work for me.

[24:32] I'm a decant in my church.

[24:34] I gave that up for two months because that's what we were promised.

[24:38] It never transpired.

[24:39] It never came to fruition.

[24:41] And I'm just saying, let's be serious about this and hire somebody.

[24:46] There's been a lot of applicants.

[24:48] I also know people who are already have their CDL,

[24:52] they drive for Gold Coast, no response.

[24:56] So I hope that we can get it going in a solid fashion.

[25:00] And also expanded to the way it was before COVID, which we had two trolleys on the route, instead of one.

[25:06] So that's been five years. I'd like to return to that situation for my town. I live here.

[25:14] A lot of my friends, elders. I'll be an elder. Very quickly. We need this for our community.

[25:24] So that's all I have to say. I thank you very much for your time.

[25:27] Thank you Mr. Holmes.

[25:29] Nancy O'Way, Alicia Marinas, and then Bill Miley.

[25:39] Nancy O'Way, and I was excited, I wasn't going to say anything, and then I signed up,

[25:46] because ever since the Utah Mount Zion, they had a wonderful system, and everybody abandoned

[25:55] their cars, and because of the pollution and the damage that would happen to the site.

[26:04] I thought that would be great, but they demanded, but with Cal France, you can't do that.

[26:11] But I think it could be encouragement that people would want to if we had a really terrific

[26:18] trolley system.

[26:20] You know, I'm excited about seeing it expanded, you know, and not just three, but to five, to have, you know,

[26:28] in Xion it's every 15 minutes. And there's lots of things in the valley besides eating and drinking,

[26:36] that people could enjoy, and we would want them to, if they didn't clog our roads.

[26:41] I've been a member of the community on and off and since my family bought the ranch in

[26:50] 58.

[26:52] So, you see a lot of change, you know, but it hasn't been an unfortunate change and so I would

[27:00] encourage the trolley to be supported and I was a, I was in Vietnam and the red cross and

[27:08] I felt a, you know, a kinship with anybody that had PTSD from that, because I myself

[27:16] and, you know, just unfair to characterizes that would be something negative.

[27:25] In fact, I think it's quite positive.

[27:28] So thank you all for listening.

[27:31] Thank you.

[27:37] Marinas Bill Meili and Helen Pasquadela.

[27:51] Hello, I am Alicia Marinas and I am going to try to speak clearly, but this will be fast.

[27:58] I am Alicia Marinas, the post-secondary Mods of Air Educational Specialist at Nordoft.

[28:02] I hold the mobility trainer pass with GoCostransit and Transportation Training as a key element to my program.

[28:08] I ride the Charlie 44 weeks out of the year, three to four days a week.

[28:12] I train for independence and successfully trained my students to be lifelong trolley drivers, or writers.

[28:19] Drivers would be great though.

[28:21] It bridges the gap between those who have mobility issues, those who can no longer drive, but also those who can choose to use public transportation to be better stewards of our environment.

[28:31] For those kids coming and going to school and for those who who need to travel to work.

[28:36] Poet transportation accessibility is the great equalizer, all walks of life come together and become a community.

[28:40] I read the trolley enough to know that reliability has been an issue.

[28:45] Sunday's have been suspended and the community has been stating the kids have been waiting

[28:48] at the trolley stops for over an hour when the trolley wasn't stated to be having an

[28:52] outage.

[28:53] A key component of public transportation is reliability.

[28:56] I believe that this reliability issue is solely due to lack of drivers.

[28:59] Five drivers, three that drive regularly, one that's been out for has been out due to medical

[29:06] reasons for months, and then the fifth one is like one day a week. As for the hiring

[29:12] of drivers, the city is offering a part-time job, I believe with no benefits. In 2023,

[29:17] city of Ohio reported that there were 10 drivers. And in the Senate program, program was

[29:24] looked at and included the race that was given. These 10 employees were then reported to be

[29:29] 7 FTE, according to the Transportation Development Act, Trianiol Report of 2022. The

[29:34] The SNFs and raises have not worked, and we are now down to five total drivers.

[29:39] The hopes several years ago was to get back to the original 15, so we could have two

[29:43] roots.

[29:44] If the issue is there is no one willing to apply, maybe the offer needs to be more enticing.

[29:50] The Transportation Development Act regulations require transit operators to meet a fair

[29:54] box recovery ratio to be eligible for the full local transportation fund.

[29:59] This ratio is just a little bit more.

[30:00] This was generally 20% for urban operators, and 2017, according to the City's Resolution 1738. The trolley raised its rates and to try to meet that 20% of its ratio of expenses to the fair box income. It was able to bolster a fair box revenue of 14%. The Ohio trolley in 2017 received 45% of its annual operating funds from the Transportation Development Act.

[30:24] This was before COVID before the trolley service was cut in half, and California suspended this requirement until 2026 to due to COVID pandemic impact on ridership.

[30:36] We need our two routes to sustain the trolley by meeting the Transportation Development Act's requirements of 20%.

[30:42] We are little over six months away from that deadline.

[30:46] I want to urge the City Council to keep the trolley on and your radar.

[30:49] I would like to keep the 36 year community stable at the front.

[30:53] Thank you very much.

[30:57] I'm Bill Myley, Ellen Pascarla, and then Casey Abbott.

[31:04] Hello.

[31:06] A bunch of months, a bunch of months to go.

[31:10] I spoke with others to your council about the lack of drivers for the joy.

[31:17] Then folks who apply to drive or told you would cost several hundred dollars for training to get the proper license.

[31:27] The city then did a really good thing. They contracted with Gold Coast, the train drivers, driver applicants, had no cost,

[31:39] success.

[31:40] Now I understand that the free training for all I applicants has been stopped.

[31:46] Even though there are currently local folks with current driver training qualifications, waiting to apply,

[31:54] Rumors says the city is now accepting new applicants.

[32:01] Actually, while I heard from a reliable source,

[32:06] the city is not accepting applicants for trolley driver positions now

[32:11] and for some time in the near past.

[32:15] So why is the city refusing to accept applications from city folks

[32:21] helping to become a trolley driver?

[32:27] statement, our city is not accepting driver and applicant application and that's not right.

[32:44] Thank you, Mr. Miley. Helen Paschorella and then Casey Abbott.

[32:55] Good afternoon, city council.

[32:57] Good to see you again and thank you for having this meeting here and giving us a chance to speak about things that are happening in our community.

[33:03] When I spoke to you on March 1st of last year, when the fire resolution was passed by the city council,

[33:11] 30,000 Palestinians had been killed in the Israeli genocide against them.

[33:16] Now, if you should say that it's 55,000, but some estimate that it may be as high as 109,000 still under the rubble

[33:23] and dying from malnutrition and other diseases due to the ongoing war and blockade.

[33:28] But I'm not here to speak about the injustice and Palestine, but rather the oppressive acts that are occurring right here in Ohio by the US government.

[33:40] What we have been witness to with the ice raids and the past months is fascism in action.

[33:45] The fact that people are being taken without due process and central Salvador prison is criminal.

[33:50] The Supreme Court has ordered to send the people back, but Trump has refused.

[33:56] We have heard of people being detained in Oxnard and San Maria, and now it's happened here in Ohio.

[34:03] Are you aware of this?

[34:05] Yes.

[34:07] Well, this young man was my friend's son.

[34:10] And it happened right across the street from my home, across the way.

[34:15] So,

[34:18] on Saturday morning, this 30th year old man was kidnapped in front of his home in minors Oaks.

[34:23] He had lived here in the U.S. for 21 years and was going to check in meetings with immigration

[34:28] for years. So he was here legally. He had no criminal record and he was in the process of applying

[34:34] for legal status. During the arrest he was injured from being thrown into the mailboxes in

[34:39] front of his home and he was taken to the Ohio Valley Hospital. And the only reason the mother found out

[34:44] where he was is because somebody worked there called her and told her. She did not know what happened

[34:49] him all day Saturday and Sunday. Until Sunday night, she was called from her son by her son from Tijuana.

[34:58] Are you okay, Mr. Whitman?

[35:00] Okay.

[35:03] And she was found that he sent to Tijuana and dropped off with 30 other immigrants.

[35:08] And why am I telling you this? Why should be care? Because people are being targeted right here in our community. They are not criminals and murderers as Trump described them.

[35:16] These are people who care for your children, clean your homes, harvest the food on your dinner table, and serve you at restaurants.

[35:21] So I'm asking you, and I'm here to speak because people in the community can't speak for themselves because they are afraid of losing their parents, of losing their children, and of themselves being deported.

[35:35] I'm asking the city of Ohio to consider a resolution and declare itself a sanctuary city. Why?

[35:40] Sanctuary cities, policies are aimed to protect the safety and well-being of all the residents, including undocumented immigrants, by limiting cooperation with the federal immigration.

[35:50] I would like us to support our community, and I mean everybody in our community, and by passing such or considering such a resolution, it would show the people.

[36:01] Thank you.

[36:04] Casey, have a please.

[36:14] I wanted to put in a supporting word for the trolley.

[36:18] I work way across town.

[36:21] Four miles, four to half miles.

[36:23] Wait, and it's a series convenience for me to be able to jump on the trolley.

[36:27] Is it off?

[36:29] I'm right speaking right into it. Is it going? Okay, I'm going to block a work. Works really

[36:37] have been helping me with that a while with several injuries.

[36:42] And one of the concerns of

[36:44] mine is a competent drivers. I really really appreciate what I see. It's been very, very good

[36:49] ones. I see things disturbing when I take the inner city bus and down to Ventura. There's a girl

[36:55] right to the bus and talk to the driver for the whole time and goes back and forth in the

[36:58] 16 all day long to tracking drivers. It's almost as bad as him having a cell phone.

[37:03] I wish somebody could do something about it. But as far as other general issues,

[37:09] thank you for that consideration. Make sure he helps it to be able to take the project on her.

[37:13] Put it by the phone and go somewhere else if I need to hop onto the city bus as well.

[37:17] But also about turning this into a sanctuary city. I strongly oppose all my life. I've had

[37:24] Then back stabbed in my jobs as a machinist from people from other countries that did not want a competent person who belongs here, or with Native American roots,

[37:37] or with

[37:37] two years of college education, they want to keep it stupid people that don't speak the same language. They really resent somebody who tries to be competent.

[37:47] I've had other issues that I've had most of my expertise broken out by a drunk and illegal who punched me in the face for no reason

[37:53] smiled at me and did it again

[37:55] But to the peaceful route and his friends jumped on him and pulled him away and other people came and asked why didn't you just belt him or way bigger than him

[38:02] Yeah, I'm quite confident that you have it. I want to costume you to say we don't want anecdotes to become anything like policy

[38:08] So I'm asking you to temper your speed to little

[38:11] Just on the truth. Okay, but

[38:14] We're hearing you. I had no insurance of time, no recourse and it's very, very hard to get a job with that team.

[38:22] You can't get from office appearance written on your application.

[38:28] But yeah, there is a very, very negative side to the issue and you can have a bleeding heart and want to help everybody in the world,

[38:35] but they're going to come here and take all our resources. They're going to take our jobs and they're going to act like, hey, you can't work there.

[38:39] you're not Mexican, or whatever race they prefer to put into it. I'm a native. I'm

[38:47] I'm Cherokee Indian from this country. I'm a visitor in California, the Schumacher,

[38:50] a very, very special tribe to the rest of the nations and the United States.

[38:56] Now that the United States, we used to be a turmoil island. They had the keepers of the

[39:00] weather and gate there where we go to the next world. That's from point of

[39:03] section here, and that was the Schumacher, the guarded. We walk very,

[39:09] very

[39:10] a strong we oppose thank we're seeing and thank you for the time have good thank you

[39:16] Mr. Montgomery anything online may or we have one more in-house I may have missed

[39:20] post them go ahead let me down yeah all these people are here for the trolley or a lot

[39:27] of them why is it this is self-inflicted it's one of the few things that should be working

[39:34] well I mean we're not we don't have to spend a hundred thousand a year to get a bus driver

[39:38] like they do with the school department because they can't find qualified drivers.

[39:43] If we have drivers, we have trolleys, we have, we're flush with money, that's what we

[39:48] were told months ago, now we have a deficit, I don't know, but there's no reason.

[39:53] I mean, this is one of the few things that should actually be working well.

[39:57] We own the trolleys, we have drivers.

[40:00] You can get them trained. I don't know much about the other gentleman who former supervisor or the president supervisor. I don't, I've heard stories, but I don't know. But this is, this is absurd. I mean, there's no reason for it. So please solve it, move on. We're trying to get people off of cars. That's why they have buses. So let's use the buses we have. I know we're getting two more, but Sundays.

[40:30] Cancel it for during a week. I mean have some of the schools pick up the tab if they want their kids picked up have some of the businesses pick up the tab

[40:37] They want to get their people chuddle here and there

[40:41] But there's no reason for this we have other issues. This is not shouldn't be one of them

[40:47] Thank you, Mr. Stangel. Mayer next card submitted is from Jeffrey Starkweather. Okay.

[40:56] That's okay

[40:58] Good evening to the council members mayor. Madison

[41:03] Mine is just a request, actually. Maybe it's more of a staff thing, but someone who

[41:09] reads in New York Times and Washington Post and all these papers every single day, I'm constantly

[41:13] reading about the retent programs that could affect this housing, certainly climate change,

[41:22] so forth. I think it would be useful for someone on our staff to kind of keep you all and

[41:28] public up-to-date when things could impact us. They could affect our cabin village long-term

[41:36] funding. We're talking about housing. It could affect that clearly. Section 8 could be threatened.

[41:43] Doesn't mean that we should be lobbying for against it as a city, I mean we can, but I just think

[41:48] it's important that we have that information. And we talk about things. We don't come up with something

[41:54] that it's not practical because, you know, the funding has been cut off or we're going

[41:58] to have to seek funding. And actually the lobbying part may be some things that we need

[42:06] like our Cayman Village. We need to be thinking about lobbying our legislators. Maybe even

[42:13] inviting our two legislators to come here and tell us how they are helping us with housing,

[42:20] climate change, social services, because we're going to need that backstop from our state.

[42:29] I have a feeling the way things are going.

[42:31] Thank you.

[42:32] Thank you, Ms. Starkweather.

[42:33] Anything online?

[42:35] Yes, Mayor.

[42:35] We do have one raised hand from our Zoom participant named Zoom user.

[42:40] Zoom user, you have the ability to, if you'd like to stay your name and your comment.

[42:44] Okay.

[42:44] My name is Anita Hendrix.

[42:46] Can you hear me?

[42:47] Yes.

[42:48] Okay.

[42:48] Well, thank you all. I love the trolley. It takes students to school as older people, the

[42:55] Carlos, the tourists, people who just want to enjoy a tour of our town. It supports our sustainability

[43:03] goals. It helps decrease congestion and pollution and helps to whatever extent reduce a global warming

[43:14] because of the less petroleum use.

[43:17] And it adds a tremendous charm to our city.

[43:19] It is unique service.

[43:21] The Gold Coast Transit does not take us all through our valley

[43:26] and it takes us to good portion.

[43:27] It could be expanded, that's true.

[43:30] We have great dedicated drivers, and I hold only good things

[43:33] about the supervisor who is now apparently in a band.

[43:38] I would like to know, does the council value the trolley service?

[43:43] We have pre-COVID. We have every half-hour. We had it Saturdays and Sundays. In the budget,

[43:51] there were supposed to be 12 to 14 part-time drivers. Now there are only three acting drivers. A few

[43:58] Saturdays. We have no Sunday service and a few Saturdays. There was no service at all. On a Saturday,

[44:05] because they had nobody to substitute for somebody who couldn't work for either

[44:10] for get the reason. And there was no notice. So when you went over there to

[44:14] catch the ride on Saturday, there was nothing to explain what was going on.

[44:22] In

[44:22] Austria, people get service every 15 minutes. The best comes every 15 minutes and

[44:28] it's free.

[44:31] What are the obstacles to full service? Please let us know that. What

[44:36] in the public and the council do to actualize full service not just as it was pre-COVID but

[44:43] let's expand it. Let's make it so that people who want to go out at night can go out at night

[44:49] and that some of the other areas that aren't service can be serviced. Perhaps the businesses

[44:54] So benefit from the trolley could add to money as well as on the like after which has left.

[45:00] The money could give some extra money to help us take it all the way out there.

[45:05] The schools, many students rely on the trolley to get to and from school.

[45:10] I have been trying to find out what's been going on with this trolley service and have not come up with a really coherent, deep understanding of what's going on.

[45:18] I would like to invite the council to sponsor a trolley town hall meeting where we can really get it in depth explanation.

[45:24] And, you know, together work on solving this problem.

[45:34] I also would like to make comments about the,

[45:37] the sanctuary city.

[45:39] Do I have, can I do that in the additional time a while?

[45:42] No, we have to end now. Thank you though.

[45:44] Okay, please support the sanctuary city.

[45:46] Thank you very much.

[45:47] Thank you.

[45:48] No one raised hands.

[45:49] Thank you.

[45:50] And I can say confidently for myself and every council person I've heard

[45:53] from that the trolley is a huge priority.

[45:55] And we will continue to work on that, and I hope to see with our new

[45:58] Charlie's increase in Mr. Harvey.

[46:00] Sure, and just let me expand upon that.

[46:02] So the staff is following council's direction, which is to embellish the

[46:06] Charlie service to that end.

[46:07] We have recently purchased as a stated several times to use

[46:11] Charlie's.

[46:12] We have another all electric trolley that is on order.

[46:15] We are actively trying to hire new drivers.

[46:19] We are also looking at using a contract service to backfill those

[46:24] agencies that we have. So we hope in short order to have the Sunday service restored and

[46:29] to have an ample pool, it is something that we are working on. We want to thank the Council

[46:33] for Council's direction in July to increase the pay for all the trolley drivers which has

[46:38] been helpful. So we will continue to look at other ways that we can expand the driver pool.

[46:44] And if it requires Council action, we will come back to you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[46:49] Yes. And I just wanted to add one more thing along those lines. And that is, but I am the council

[46:53] liaison for the Gold Coast Transit District, and they're training, and it's a program that

[47:05] is excellent. And so I am confident that any training that we have for our new bus driver

[47:13] trolley drivers will be excellent as well.

[47:20] Thank you.

[47:21] Yes.

[47:22] Yeah.

[47:22] I'm just curious.

[47:23] So is there like an ad placed for drivers?

[47:26] No.

[47:27] Yeah.

[47:28] So currently we are in fact hiring for drivers.

[47:31] If anyone wants to see his website,

[47:34] hoi.ca.gov.

[47:36] Look departments, city manager,

[47:38] human resources, jobs.

[47:40] The job posting for trolley driver is posted.

[47:42] And we also are continuing the partnership with Gold Coast Transit that if we onboard

[47:49] someone that does not have their passenger endorsement, we have paid to put them through

[47:55] the training to get them to the passenger endorsement and also the got them to the road up.

[48:02] Mr. Miley, please, you know what to do. Thank you.

[48:06] So, it is open. We are accepting applications and looking to hire drivers and as Mr. Harvey stated,

[48:14] we've also looked at the potential to contract out, which we were successfully doing for

[48:19] Sundays and we had understood this.

[48:21] Just to understand, not not contracting out the service using a contract service so that we can

[48:28] have additional drivers. I want to be clear about that.

[48:31] So, how long has the trolley not been available on Sundays?

[48:38] So the trolley service, we had contracted out earlier this year.

[48:42] We had stopped the contract.

[48:43] We were told that we could fill it.

[48:45] And now again, I want to be clear, we contracted with a service for contract drivers.

[48:50] Not contracted out the trolley.

[48:51] Mm-hmm.

[48:53] In the Middle East day, we contracted for a single driver to fill the Sunday service with work

[48:58] well.

[48:59] So when was the wind?

[49:00] And then we had covered that service in house with our drivers for a couple of months.

[49:06] And there's scheduled no longer allowed them to do that.

[49:09] So it's been remunous for months, how long has we not had this ring so my understanding potentially around mid-Far.

[49:18] This mid-marked March.

[49:21] Two months.

[49:23] And Mayor Council, we're going beyond.

[49:25] We need response to public comment.

[49:27] Mindful of the Brown Act.

[49:28] Clearly the matter needs more more review.

[49:30] Anyone with questions can contact Mr. Alameda.

[49:32] The overseer of the transit operations.

[49:34] Thank you.

[49:35] And we're hearing you well.

[49:36] We've got it.

[49:37] Okay, moving on. We will now go to the consent calendar. I know there's one item that there is something I would like to pull, which is I

[49:47] Anybody else?

[49:52] Okay, just a second.

[49:54] Mm-hmm.

[49:58] Yeah, actually I wanted to pull H.

[50:01] Okay,

[50:05] anybody else? I was just kind of wondering, I'm up for suggestions with the goals and tactics.

[50:16] It just seems like this is not on the consent part.

[50:19] Okay.

[50:20] General agenda part?

[50:21] Go ahead.

[50:22] Yeah, I'm sure.

[50:23] Yeah.

[50:24] When it's time, I just...

[50:25] Okay.

[50:26] Yeah, so that will be coming after consent.

[50:29] No, no, that's okay.

[50:30] On item number three discussion.

[50:31] no problem. Okay, um, can I get a motion to approve all the items except H and I?

[50:40] I'll move to approve the other items. Great.

[50:43] Second. Okay. All those in favor?

[50:47] I opposed. Great.

[50:50] So I can bring up, and I want to hear from you, Miss Whitman, the issue that I had on I,

[50:55] If you look at the document on pages, well, two of two, it's the page 1, I, two, there's just one piece that I think got brought and not corrected from our last conversation is the paragraph after the italics.

[51:16] where it says this recommended modification would allow the city council the option to appoint a five member PRC and the ability to constitute a near term

[51:24] quorum of the regular meeting of the PRC. In this discretion the proposed ordinance would also allow the city council to appoint a three member commission.

[51:33] That was brought up by Mr. Ackens last time the option to appoint additional members to reinstate a seven member. I believe that the intent of the language was meant to say something on the order of you have a three member quorum with a five

[51:46] member, but it was never our intention to appoint a three member commission.

[51:50] So that should be corrected in that piece.

[51:53] Yeah.

[51:54] Question that we had and what I understood was that the option that this this particular portion

[52:06] was pulled from the arts commission and that the three person option is embedded in with

[52:13] intent to use it, but it is in the Arts Commission as well because we did bring that up in the

[52:19] last meeting. Did I understand that correctly? Yeah, that's correct. The language is used here

[52:23] as seven members or such less than a number as maybe appointed by the council is exactly the

[52:28] same as in the Arts Commission. The ability to go smaller is inherent, but we never expected to be

[52:33] utilized. Right. So I guess, so Mayor, do you have a problem with having the ability if a council

[52:42] was so inclined to do so. No, I guess I didn't want anybody to misunderstand. We are not

[52:48] intending to have it go smaller than five. But I guess if we want the ability to do that,

[52:53] I just can't imagine that we would want to. No, I can't either. But it just then it becomes a

[52:57] question of do we want to change the ordinance and therefore change the ordinance for the arts

[53:02] commission as well. Or do we want to just say that the option is there if the council were ever

[53:10] to want to bring that forward, but we don't intend that the council would, unless there was

[53:17] some very good reason. So I just wanted to clarify that we did discuss this at the last meeting,

[53:22] and that was my understanding. There are no. There is value in having the language match for

[53:27] the commissions. I agree with that. But of course, it's up to the council.

[53:33] And why I don't mind

[53:35] keeping it the way it is, as long as we understand the intent. But the second part that I just

[53:38] to bring up on on I is that the if I've understood correctly from that commission and the

[53:47] people who have spoken with the commission is that since they have essentially three new

[53:52] people starting on assuming that that that Bradley's going to be ratified then what they would

[53:59] like to do is move forward with their first meeting, get up to speed, we can continue with our

[54:04] reviewing and have those people in the queue to working with them, but that they would begin now.

[54:10] Just to clarify that piece.

[54:14] Yes, since I was the last, really, council person to speak the chair and have the interview

[54:22] process. Yeah, that's correct. They feel that onboarding three people is a plenty enough task

[54:29] and at the time that either the council or the commission feels like they should move to

[54:35] seven, that becomes an option for either the council to ask the Parks Commission, Parks

[54:42] and Rix Commission to do so, or the Parks and Rix Commission to enter into a discussion about

[54:47] if now is the proper time. I will note that the Arts Commission has been at five for at least a year

[54:54] and no one has knocked on their door and said you should be seven or

[55:00] We've gotten into a discussion with them. So yeah, that would be the only point there is that it remains open to the council to make that decision at any time. It remains open to the council liaison to discuss that with the Parks and Recs Commission at that will. So yeah, I see, I guess I don't see the problem.

[55:23] I'm with you. Mr. women. Yeah. So I also have the concern about the

[55:31] remember Commission. Language. But it's in the staff report and it doesn't

[55:36] appear to be in the ordinance of that. That's what I'm missing. Yeah, it's just

[55:43] in the staff report. Not the ordinance. Okay. And I don't really understand what

[55:47] the reference to the three member commission is, but I think to certainly agree, the mayor's

[55:58] comments, assuming that's the direction we go, address my concerns. I did not want to stop

[56:07] the selection process. I'm also fine with us constituting a five-person Parks and

[56:16] Rec Commission. But I'd like to see us move forward with Canada at six and seven,

[56:25] and then depending on the timing in terms of the first meeting of the Parks and

[56:30] mission,

[56:33] either there's nominations or there's not, but it's a topic for public comment

[56:40] whether we have a five to seven person commission as well.

[56:44] And I just want to, my only concerning holding those items was to make sure that we were continuing with the process.

[56:52] That's my intent.

[56:54] I think I need some clarification on this.

[56:58] So we are moving forward with appointing six and seven, even though one of the nominating,

[57:09] even though the chair of the commission, who is a nominating committee, wouldn't.

[57:15] The conversation that I had had briefly was simply this.

[57:18] Starting with, I'm wording these five people.

[57:21] start dating the first one I believe is June 7th or something like that that there's a night

[57:25] which the initial meeting would simply first be the protocol of the handbook that Mr. Harvey

[57:29] would probably deliver. Then my intention as in my conversation with the chair was as we can

[57:36] do it, we interview more people so that the other council people can also have their voice.

[57:41] Great. And that's going to be up to that unanimous consent going forward. So my thought was,

[57:47] You have those other people. If there is unanimous approval, which the chair would approve

[57:52] have to be part of the unanimity. But there's no urgency there, but that we keep the public.

[57:57] Okay, great. Simply that. Thank you.

[57:59] Oh, that's fair. Yes. I'm just wondering if it's going to, if the, if the commission decides to keep it at five,

[58:09] then are those efforts in vain? Yeah. And then do we give someone who we might

[58:17] be want to choose when we give them a false hope or when they feel like their time has been wasted.

[58:25] That's all.

[58:27] And I would tend to agree that it would make more sense to have an agreement to move forward to seven.

[58:35] Then it would be to keep interviewing with an unknown date for seven.

[58:42] I know that the chair is also wanting to bring this matter before the commission, once it

[58:50] is, it has its first meeting, and also the public to discuss these kinds of things.

[58:57] So, I mean, I'm not adverse to continuing with interviewing, but I do think that without a

[59:05] kind of firm idea of when five might go to seven, it might be a wasted effort and it might

[59:10] false hope or you know not false hope but you know what I mean.

[59:14] Then might I propose that that first meeting take place in June and then that might be the next step?

[59:21] Yeah, I think that's good.

[59:23] And see how quickly you know the onboarding happens and how they gel and you know when they feel ready to bring two more people on.

[59:33] I think that seems reasonable.

[59:34] So, you know, my concern is that the process has been absurdly long.

[59:43] I know that I appointed a commissioner and the whole process took about six weeks.

[59:51] But for some reason, we're, you know, seven months down the road and we haven't had been able to get five,

[59:57] although we have lots of lots of applicants.

[1:00:00] And I think there's two very strong applicants who have not been interviewed yet. And I think that interviewing them and we can give them full disclosure that they may never be appointed, just like anybody who interviews may never be appointed.

[1:00:23] Why can't we speak for myself to say that I think the process at least since December has been going as fast as it could go.

[1:00:32] Maybe, you know, not as fast as we would like. But here we are. Right. And we have a commission that is now able to me. So my suggestion was just.

[1:00:44] speed of the process and the event that there is a decision to have 7 instead of 5.

[1:00:51] We just go ahead and enter the candidates for exceed 6 and 7 with the understanding that it may remain a 5.

[1:01:03] If that makes them feel like they don't want to participate, I just don't think that that's going to be the case.

[1:01:10] I'd like to see it move forward as quickly as you mean just more interviews moving forward.

[1:01:14] It's more interviews.

[1:01:15] Because the moving forward, the commission's going to meet.

[1:01:17] It's going to be good.

[1:01:18] No.

[1:01:20] That's my intent.

[1:01:22] Commission made seven people they can make decisions.

[1:01:26] And I think there has to be a debate.

[1:01:29] Public comment.

[1:01:31] There.

[1:01:31] Trinity to comment on the idea of going to seven versus staying at five.

[1:01:35] That's why I would ask you might consider if that first meeting in

[1:01:39] can be part of the form of that. That seems reasonable to me because then we're involved in the committee and the

[1:01:45] That seem okay to you. Yeah, that's why I think also it would be who has to bring the chair into this discussion as well

[1:01:54] That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, it's not the who for now are this morning

[1:01:58] and

[1:02:00] She's fine with the

[1:02:02] General concept we've been talking about okay. Okay, so I have a I have a question about so

[1:02:09] So I'm Councilmember Whitman and I are the next ones to a point.

[1:02:16] And I've already interviewed a couple of them before all of the changes happen to her.

[1:02:24] And I would like to talk to more of the applicants.

[1:02:30] So is there a way that we, because I understand that there are limitations in terms of

[1:02:35] all have to have these interviews together, is there a way to, I guess this is something that

[1:02:46] we could talk about, and with the Brown Act, it makes it difficult for us to have to interview

[1:02:54] multiple people.

[1:02:55] We can't hear what you're saying, but somebody being on Zoom is fun, we've had that, so I don't

[1:03:01] know if that makes it any easier, but so far it has been too difficult to get the appointments

[1:03:06] we've got, you know, a little finagling that is a very help facilitate that and she's done a very

[1:03:11] excellent job with that, so I see it's harder because of what was voted in last year the

[1:03:17] unanimous piece and together, but that was a reason. Yeah, because it's, okay, this is, I,

[1:03:26] like I would want to know who, who, who, who else you're interviewing, and so that there's no overlap,

[1:03:32] and this is, we could, I can work this out right, but I don't need to, I don't need to, yeah.

[1:03:38] And don't want to be on this for the city attorney.

[1:03:42] So, to avoid duplication of interviews, more duplication for the interview.

[1:03:49] Yes.

[1:03:49] Is it okay without violating the Brown Act where both Rachel and I, and the mayor?

[1:03:57] Yeah, and the mayor and the mayor.

[1:04:00] No, okay, I see Ben, I see our senior managers.

[1:04:03] You.

[1:04:03] Facial expression.

[1:04:04] The universe of the people who are interviewed.

[1:04:08] Yes, if it's a notice meeting.

[1:04:10] Three, three council members makes that a notice meeting.

[1:04:13] So you absolutely could interview the candidates altogether, but that's a notice meeting

[1:04:17] public agenda public comment, the whole debate, just the solution to avoid that.

[1:04:23] If I had a different election piece, a different way to do it.

[1:04:26] Well, so that's a larger conversation, obviously, is there's other ways to

[1:04:30] commissioners but working within what we've already adopted. The approach that one could use is

[1:04:37] the candidate is scheduled for two hour block the mayor and the chair stay all the time

[1:04:42] and the two council members rotate in and nobody conveys what was discussed in the morning

[1:04:47] in the first hour of the second hour. That's the solution. I realize it means the candidate needs to

[1:04:51] sit through two hours. That's the price of being involved in the community. Well, I was just

[1:04:56] All I wanted to offer was as we took on this task, I saw it.

[1:05:00] Now how daunting it could be. And we look at what are some of the ways to get this to be manageable enough. And so the solution that we kind of all brainstormed on a little bit was the, the, the, the, the, also person who has the appointment to ask us start off, you know, with Ms. Mayan that they would select a few, then it would be the chair myself and the council person would do those few. And if one was unanimously appointed, go to the next. So that's we, we thought that's as one potential way of at least getting it embodied, which we will leave on now.

[1:05:30] And then, and then moving forward to make it, but what we thought about is, if everybody got it, if all of you had a chance to interview every single person, that's not right.

[1:05:40] Which is not what you were.

[1:05:41] Is there any, I mean, is there any prohibition against, for instance, Council Member Lang calling applicants and speaking with them directly before an interview?

[1:05:56] Well, yeah, that's fine. Yeah. There's no requirement. Yeah, you don't bring them up for the nominating.

[1:06:02] Right. Okay. Now you can do your your prelim or your. Yeah. Okay.

[1:06:06] Information gathering is absolutely fine. Right. Thanks. I think what I'm what I'm trying to avoid is

[1:06:12] having myself or an applicant spend time when there's a chance that they're not going to be

[1:06:22] pointed. I don't want to inconvenience anyone else, or you know, any more than than then is necessary.

[1:06:32] Just for clarity. There's always a chance they won't be a friend to.

[1:06:35] Right. That's correct. If they certainly won't be appointed.

[1:06:39] I agree with that.

[1:06:41] And knowing that I know I've talked to two members of the commission and they do want to have five.

[1:06:50] So let's let that be.

[1:06:52] Yes, yes, yes.

[1:06:53] Okay.

[1:06:53] Great.

[1:06:54] Okay.

[1:06:55] Yes, I'm good with that.

[1:06:56] Can I just jump in, sorry, last thing.

[1:06:58] Just know that the June meeting is going to be very heavy with training.

[1:07:03] It's going to be the Brown Act training, the boards and commission handbook training.

[1:07:08] They're going to need to appoint officers.

[1:07:10] So you can certainly load up their meeting, but you might be talking about a two or three hour deal.

[1:07:15] So just just know that.

[1:07:18] All right.

[1:07:20] So it sounds like, unless there's an objection to the appointment, are we okay with H&I?

[1:07:28] Yeah, as long as what we just discussed, those options remain available under what we're adopted.

[1:07:36] I think those options are available and that we would look at green. Yes, those options are

[1:07:41] are consistent with what's up for adoption, as they consummated in the future. And then I'm

[1:07:47] Okay, all right, and we're good with H and I. I moved. I moved H and I. Was there any public comment? Oh, yes, there's. Well, I have a question. Mr. Summers. If there's public comments on consent items that were approved. Are we to hear those? Yeah, we certainly take the public comment. I do that we would have. I didn't realize there were cards and items that were already approved. I do that we took the comment before. Okay, but the minimum will take it now. Okay, then let me start with. It's consent item G for Mr. Mili.

[1:08:22] The, the charging station.

[1:08:23] correct?

[1:08:26] Okay,

[1:08:30] I'm glad you got to this because I was sad. So it's good to make more

[1:08:37] charging stations available. I support the larger version with two ports each,

[1:08:45] giving more opportunities and thus cost for port. But I have two suggestions.

[1:08:53] The

[1:08:53] charge for public use.

[1:08:55] The administrative right-up says a nominal charge.

[1:08:59] To make my point, an nominal definition is a very small, far below the real cost.

[1:09:06] I cannot support our city subsidizing EV charging services for the general public.

[1:09:13] The charge should be the cost of the product, plus an amortization of the equipment installation

[1:09:18] and service. And because of this proposal, I asked to have the public charges placed on all

[1:09:25] other city-owned EV stations in town knowing what we charge and are resubsidizing those services

[1:09:34] also. The second, the location seems to be problematic. South East portion of

[1:09:42] I sent you a Google map marked the site with red and put the green site where I thought it should be.

[1:09:51] That site seems to be difficult.

[1:09:54] It's a long distance away from the building for staff.

[1:09:58] Come and go.

[1:10:00] It's a tight area, apparently there's no night lighting. It wouldn't seem to be very safe. However, I just got information tonight that there is a noise generated by those charging they're got eB card. And it can be annoying. So if you put someplace else, but there are houses that back up to that side.

[1:10:25] I suggest the different, and more open location, which is a long park road, the parking

[1:10:31] on in front of where the ball parks are, and that might be easier for everybody.

[1:10:39] The last thing I want to say is please consider an effort to encourage apartment building owners,

[1:10:50] to install charging stations at their buildings, which will make it a lot easier for people

[1:10:56] Red.

[1:10:58] The charge is there.

[1:10:59] E.B.

[1:11:00] E.B.

[1:11:01] Here it goes.

[1:11:02] When they buy him.

[1:11:03] Thank you.

[1:11:04] Thank you, Mr. Miley.

[1:11:05] And Larry Steingold on A and G.

[1:11:15] A is actually it was B.

[1:11:18] Okay.

[1:11:18] Oh, B. Sorry.

[1:11:19] City Awards.

[1:11:21] Legal fees.

[1:11:23] $20,000 for miscellaneous litigation.

[1:11:28] I didn't know litigation could be miscellaneous.

[1:11:31] So, it would be nice to see a breakdown of what the miscellaneous litigation is because for $20,000, it's not little.

[1:11:41] You have $10,000 for employment and labor.

[1:11:48] Now, I assume all the contracts and all that stuff for all pre-written and everything else.

[1:11:52] So, is there a problem with labor and employment that we need to spend $10,000 for the month?

[1:11:59] Then there's $8,000 for special projects.

[1:12:03] Have those special projects been authorized by City Council.

[1:12:07] I don't know.

[1:12:08] Do you know that?

[1:12:10] What are they?

[1:12:11] Could they be enumerated since we are paying for them?

[1:12:15] So it would be nice because at this point we're spending a lot of money on legal bills,

[1:12:19] which seems to me a lot of them are self-inflicted,

[1:12:22] which I, unfortunately, is very bad.

[1:12:25] G. I agree with Bill Meilly regarding everything he mentioned. The four charging ports, the charging, the public retail prices.

[1:12:40] We shouldn't be giving discounts to citizens for charging their electric cars and regarding the noise.

[1:12:48] If there is a noise, please investigate it now because we don't want to end up with a pickleball problem.

[1:12:57] After the fact, because now what do you do?

[1:13:00] You will now build a sound wall around the charging stations.

[1:13:04] Do we landscape the charging stations?

[1:13:07] Do we have a legal fight?

[1:13:10] Does it go on the ballot?

[1:13:12] So please go listen to the charging stations before you install them.

[1:13:18] and that's it's a good thing so if you can get them for that price great

[1:13:22] and still all them charge retail and take it. Thank you. Thank you Mr. and Gold.

[1:13:29] Mr. Mr. Starkweather is it on G that you want to admit? Okay. Yep.

[1:13:37] I just want to

[1:13:38] reinforce the idea that if we're doing charging stations pay for by the city

[1:13:44] that we should be charging people to full cost.

[1:13:49] If we were in a situation where car companies were making cars

[1:13:53] or middle-class people, working-class people, that are electric,

[1:13:57] I'd say, well, maybe it's not a bad idea to encourage people

[1:14:00] to get electric cars, but we're not.

[1:14:03] And actually, the car companies are cutting back on that.

[1:14:05] The emphasis on electric cars has been the high end user

[1:14:10] And we haven't focused like China on average people.

[1:14:16] So I don't think the city should be subsidizing one group of wealthier people in the city

[1:14:21] for their cars, because the rest of us have to get gas or something hybrid.

[1:14:26] Thank you.

[1:14:27] Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[1:14:28] Do we have some notion of what nominal means here?

[1:14:32] Seems to me that's kind of vague.

[1:14:35] I'm sorry.

[1:14:36] Well, in G, it says that we'll charge a nominal fee.

[1:14:41] The city council, prior to this council,

[1:14:44] made a policy decision to subsidize the charge

[1:14:47] for the charge in stations.

[1:14:50] And so, James Han is here.

[1:14:52] I could ask him to remind me, he's in back,

[1:14:55] he can come out.

[1:14:55] You'd like to.

[1:14:56] There we go.

[1:14:57] Let us, James, to please Mr. Han, to please it.

[1:15:00] Remind me as to what we charge versus what it costs, but this is based on a prior council decision.

[1:15:05] Thank you. So we charge $1 per hour. It doesn't matter how much electricity you're pulling.

[1:15:15] When you start charging, it pulls a lot more electricity as you're there longer, it pulls less.

[1:15:21] We did average it out, figured out how much our total cost, including network connection fees, the cost of the equipment, and found out that it on average would be about three dollars an hour.

[1:15:35] We wanted full cost recovery when we did the analysis two and a half, three years ago.

[1:15:43] And as far as the noise, there is no noise. She can go stand next to them. It's the same units that are out here.

[1:15:49] So, there's noise, but it's not crazy, isn't it?

[1:15:54] I'm remembering that the city hall that we had, the resident, the neighbors were, had

[1:16:04] complaint come to council and complained about the lights, that the car lights going right into

[1:16:10] their windows, have we explored those options or have we contacted the neighbors who would be

[1:16:15] did buy the charging stations to let them know?

[1:16:20] So, in this case, they were upset because the originally proposed site was less than 10 feet from their windows.

[1:16:34] Over at Surzody were across the street.

[1:16:37] And it's in the existing parking lot that's been, I've lived here for 50 years and it's always been there.

[1:16:43] Yeah, and all of the parking at Sarzoti, all of the faces into the field.

[1:16:51] No. No. It would be facing out.

[1:16:54] It's actually facing the street.

[1:16:55] Okay.

[1:16:56] It is the diagonal.

[1:16:58] Right.

[1:17:00] It is clear across the street and the houses are up higher.

[1:17:03] Right. Okay.

[1:17:04] I don't think that lights would be in that shoe.

[1:17:07] Is there a way to to orient the charging stations so that

[1:17:14] So that someone would have to pull in forward to use them instead of backing into that.

[1:17:20] Actually backing in is probably preferable if you're worried about lights.

[1:17:24] Because the view would be facing the field.

[1:17:28] Got it.

[1:17:28] Okay. Great. Thank you.

[1:17:31] Thank you.

[1:17:31] Thank you, Mr. Hon.

[1:17:32] All right. Thanks.

[1:17:34] Okay.

[1:17:35] Yeah.

[1:17:35] But yeah.

[1:17:37] I think we should bring back the issues of whether we should

[1:17:41] subsidized, as opposed to collect our costs, including maintenance, so that it's a break.

[1:17:46] It's a break even proposition.

[1:17:49] We'll still be slaughtering Mr. Musk at his charging station over there in terms of way, way

[1:18:00] undercutting the retail rate.

[1:18:03] But we shouldn't be a loser.

[1:18:05] Sounds good, Mr. Harvey, you have that.

[1:18:07] Thank you.

[1:18:09] Okay, so we've already actually approved all of those, so do I have a motion to approve H and I on the to approve

[1:18:16] All those in favor. I opposed

[1:18:21] Wonderful. Thank you. That was good. Okay

[1:18:26] We'll move on to the public hearing on item number two and that is

[1:18:31] Well permit application approval for the Ohio Valley in

[1:18:35] Mr. Harvey

[1:18:37] Thank you Mr. Mayor. Absolutely. I'm going to hand things over to Miss Palmer once she gets situated. Thank you Miss Palmer. Thank you.

[1:18:47] Good evening Mayor and council members.

[1:18:50] So the item before you tonight is a monitoring well permit from the Ohio Valley and the Ohio Valley and is the applicant.

[1:18:59] I want to just start out by saying this is a monitoring well and not a production well actually there's five.

[1:19:05] So, there are five wells about 30 feet deep and they are trying to gather some data to determine

[1:19:14] the feasibility and the for water savings for their irrigation.

[1:19:19] So, I've got in your packet tonight, you've got an application to the City of Ohio, you've

[1:19:26] got an application to the county of Ventura and in addition I have a letter of support from OBGMA.

[1:19:33] So they're in support of this as well.

[1:19:36] So when this came to council when a monitoring well application came to council some time ago a couple of months ago we had discussed the possibility it's a it's a multi jurisdictional application here between the county

[1:19:51] the city of Ohio and OBGMA. So our ordinance code our municipal code requires us to hold this public hearing into issues.

[1:20:00] The permit, although the county of Ventura Watershed will be issuing a permit as well. So here we are tonight, and I can answer any questions you may have.

[1:20:11] Any questions please?

[1:20:12] Yeah, I've got it. I've got a question actually for legal counsel.

[1:20:17] I think we had a well permit come up in the last three months or so.

[1:20:23] And I think at that time I asked or an item to come back to us to discuss whether OBGMA and the county should occupy this field or what, you know, advantages would it be for us to hang on to any part of it.

[1:20:43] I don't see us doing anything, but rely upon what OBGMA and the county,

[1:20:49] tell us, I mean, OBGMA is set up to make sure that we're sustainable

[1:20:55] around the water, so that is that eventually coming back.

[1:21:01] Yeah, so staff is in process on an ordinance amendment for the council's consideration that would

[1:21:06] remove the requirement for a separate on top city permit for wells.

[1:21:10] The permit requirement we have stems from another era when OBGMA was not yet fully set up before sigma have been adopted this sustainable groundwater management agency law that state law

[1:21:21] LBGMA has its own law sigma is a comprehensive law before OBGMA was fully run before sigma was in place and

[1:21:28] frankly when the time when the city council didn't have great trust in this partnership these at that time given what was happening then

[1:21:34] We had our own well permit program that now we're working well together

[1:21:38] We have confidence in great confidence in OBGMA as expressed by the council previously, and there's this additional robust regulatory regime

[1:21:46] So we are we are bringing that forward, but it is not yet done and we didn't want to pause this important monitoring process

[1:21:56] As opposed to a production process. I think we might consider pausing a production well to rely solely on OBGMA

[1:22:03] But for here, we we took a look at the two choices rational ordinance or

[1:22:06] or bring forward this monitoring while application.

[1:22:10] And hopefully we did not want the Ohio Valley

[1:22:13] and to get caught between this timing,

[1:22:15] between adopting and revising our code

[1:22:17] and giving them a permit for this.

[1:22:19] So yes, that is definitely in the works,

[1:22:21] and we have numerous conversations about it.

[1:22:24] And I'll just, particularly when here, OBGMA

[1:22:26] has recommended and writing,

[1:22:27] the approval of these monitoring wells.

[1:22:30] And I just, just for clarification

[1:22:33] And for public information,

[1:22:38] we are, would I be correct in saying that they are not, that the monitoring means that they're just going to be dipping into the well and gathering data and not actually drawing water from the wells.

[1:22:50] Yes. These wells are 30 feet deep, which is just for monitoring and gathering data. If it was a production well would be about 1,000 feet.

[1:22:58] Got it. Okay. Thank you.

[1:23:00] a thousand feet. So this is not that. And and this is what I also be correct in saying that this is

[1:23:05] that this that they are being very proactive about water conservation efforts and that this

[1:23:13] monitoring is a part of that overall comprehensive plan that they have. Yes. So.

[1:23:20] The suggestion. The applicant is here and so possibly if you would like, you know, to if this is part

[1:23:27] The question is fine, this is part of the discussion, but just point out that the applicant is here and probably could answer some of these questions if you like.

[1:23:35] I do have a, are you done? I'm sorry.

[1:23:38] So when I'm looking at the discussion, so the first paragraph, it says that starts the Ohio Valley in says,

[1:23:45] an application for five monitoring wells on private property.

[1:23:50] These are the wells will be used for evaluating the water efficiency of irrigation and water saving programs.

[1:23:54] That sounds great. When I go to the second paragraph, it says oh high-musical code section 7-3.204 requires a permit for construction modification replacement and repair of wells.

[1:24:07] In this case, the proposed wells structure will allow the applicant to use ground water for their landscaping and domestic use.

[1:24:17] And for clarity purposes, they would be coming back to us for a production well permit.

[1:24:23] Okay, so they would need to come back.

[1:24:24] They couldn't make sort of an informal, they would have to come back for a new permit.

[1:24:32] Go through the county.

[1:24:33] Go through OBGMA and come back to the city for a production well.

[1:24:37] Okay.

[1:24:38] So I'll go.

[1:24:38] Thanks for the clarification.

[1:24:40] Thank you.

[1:24:44] I have one public comment.

[1:24:46] Eric Ryder.

[1:24:56] Okay.

[1:25:03] Hi, I'm Eric Ryder. Hello. I came across this piece of news researching for material for some story

[1:25:12] work I'm working on. And it's a brand new study published May 8 by the Journal of

[1:25:27] the American Medical

[1:25:28] Association. The news week article where I found it a little easier to digest.

[1:25:35] It came out two days later on the 10th, last week.

[1:25:42] Parkinson's disease linked to living near golf courses.

[1:25:52] More than doubles the risk.

[1:25:56] I'll just submit it.

[1:25:59] Thank you.

[1:26:02] And Mr. Stockweather?

[1:26:03] Yes.

[1:26:08] Comment in a question.

[1:26:10] So we're talking about trying to be more efficient use water.

[1:26:15] That's always a big issue using groundwater, generally it's a bad thing in this state because we have way over used groundwater in most places.

[1:26:28] There was a great thing about cities in the United States that are sinking. Los Angeles is one of them sinking.

[1:26:35] Of course the San Joaquin Valley we know that some places sunk as much as five feet from using too much groundwater.

[1:26:42] My question is, why, since there's such a large user of water on something that is just

[1:26:51] pure making money, I haven't seen anything from people playing golf that travel here,

[1:26:58] not that there's anything wrong with it. I guess we do get tax money. Why aren't we working

[1:27:03] with them, the city, OBGMA, the county, and developing a recycling plant of their water.

[1:27:12] Why shouldn't you go to Las Vegas?

[1:27:15] They don't even get new water.

[1:27:16] They just, all those places recycle all their water.

[1:27:21] The technology is there.

[1:27:23] I don't think it should be completely on the burden on the Ohio Valley in the do it all,

[1:27:28] but we should be looking at new technologies.

[1:27:31] So we're, you know, and my understanding is most of their water comes from Lake Asetus, directly.

[1:27:39] We, the city, uses very little water from Lake Asetus, but in the past, anyway.

[1:27:44] Now, maybe you'll have alien correct me in all this, but I know at least one member of the old BGMA, who constantly brings this issue up to me.

[1:27:53] I guess he didn't bring it up on this one, but so I think that's something that not just an ordinary citizen like me,

[1:27:59] people who work on this feel it's something we should be addressing and should have been

[1:28:04] addressing for a long time. Thank you. Thank you. And just to point out we actually have two golf

[1:28:10] courses in our small little small little town here. So maybe our we could combine them too.

[1:28:19] Possibility. Mr. Montgomery anything online. Mayor we have no raised hands but we are in a

[1:28:24] So we'll look here, so we'll speak to our Zoom participants.

[1:28:28] Please raise your hand now for item two, last call, and we'll move on.

[1:28:35] Ms. Palmer, are you going to say something?

[1:28:37] Oh, okay.

[1:28:39] Any more questions?

[1:28:40] Come in.

[1:28:41] I've got to comment.

[1:28:44] I recall this issue, the usage of water on golf course is coming up in one of our

[1:28:52] like it's probably the last council, but you know, what I learned was that the in is actually kind of micro-managing their water usage on the golf course on a sprinkler by sprinkler basis.

[1:29:10] They're collecting data about how much water they're using so that they make sure that they're not overwatering any spot.

[1:29:20] So, you know, what we're approving, I think is just an enhancement of their ability to understand what their irrigation does.

[1:29:37] I have an understanding that you cannot actually pump water out of the zone where these monitoring

[1:29:47] wells are going.

[1:29:49] The OBGMA has passed restriction in the perched aquifer, I would assume that the significant

[1:29:57] part of what's being monitored, it's going to be the...

[1:30:01] Directorate for county office.

[1:30:02] So,

[1:30:04] the bigger issue, cover comes in front of us, is going down into the ground.

[1:30:12] Water basin, but that's not being proposed at this point in time, and so I don't see a reason for

[1:30:22] not a persona.

[1:30:23] I'm going to give it to you.

[1:30:24] And I'd like to also add that ObgMA is also looking forward to the data that is

[1:30:29] collected from these monitoring wells to use for their own benefit as well.

[1:30:33] More widespread benefits.

[1:30:35] Yeah, and I would say that any additional data that can be collected in any tools,

[1:30:42] that the in is willing to put in their toolbox and use to help not only themselves,

[1:30:50] but the others is a really good thing.

[1:30:52] So I'm in support of this.

[1:30:54] Absolutely.

[1:30:55] I'd like to move that we approve the application.

[1:30:57] It's okay. Anymore? Okay, Mr. Montgomery?

[1:31:03] Yes, Mayor. Well, call.

[1:31:05] Council member rule. Yes. Council member main.

[1:31:08] Mayor Gilman. Yes. Council member Whitman. Yes. Mayor Protem Lane.

[1:31:12] Yes. Motion pass. Thank you.

[1:31:18] Thank you, Ms. Palmer.

[1:31:22] We're on to item number three city goals and tactics.

[1:31:26] Okay. Yes, Mayor.

[1:31:28] This seems like you've talked about this a lot.

[1:31:31] You are correct.

[1:31:31] This is now the fourth time that we've come before you on this.

[1:31:35] And this might not be the last, but that's okay.

[1:31:37] This is an important matter.

[1:31:38] As we all know, you're setting policy, citywide.

[1:31:42] This has implications with everything that we do.

[1:31:47] There are nine goals that you have come up with.

[1:31:52] We're working on the tactics, which support the implementation of the goal.

[1:31:56] some housekeeping matters just so everybody is literally on the same page.

[1:32:02] The attachment to this agenda report that was in the packet,

[1:32:07] we noticed a couple of errors in there and we've made corrections to that.

[1:32:11] So what is on the diast and what is available in this room at the back of the room

[1:32:16] if you'd like a copy and what we have available to display online is a slightly revised version

[1:32:24] that provides input on tactics that you provided at your last meeting, that's in blue font,

[1:32:32] but also input received from the mayor. We're not trying to make the mayor, I mean the mayor

[1:32:38] is special, of course, but that's just because he got his input in on time. Not scolding anybody,

[1:32:46] but that's, that's what happened. I thought my, I was in my drafts folder.

[1:32:54] We understand how busy you all are, and we know that you're having this discussion tonight, so not a problem.

[1:32:59] I was in the white.

[1:33:01] And you're totally not a problem.

[1:33:02] It is not a problem.

[1:33:05] You've directed us last time to do individual votes so that we could try to speed this up.

[1:33:10] It was a good thought, but it just didn't really happen, but that's okay.

[1:33:13] Here we are tonight.

[1:33:15] I would ask for your direction as to how you'd like to proceed.

[1:33:19] we could jump right to the last two goals, which you haven't talked about so far. That's

[1:33:25] the financial stability goal, pardon me, and then the communication and relations, communications

[1:33:32] and relationships goal. We could do that. We could go back to goals you've already talked

[1:33:37] about, to talk about the tactics so far. It's really up to you how you'd like to proceed.

[1:33:44] So, as I was thinking about this, just to say once more more time, we could either go to the two areas.

[1:33:50] We have not gone to yet, or we can go to the two areas we have gone to and flesh them out as we did before.

[1:33:57] And I'm cool either way.

[1:33:59] The smallest, we had said last time on item number seven that we wanted to change climate resilience and to mitigate that direction.

[1:34:09] We can do that.

[1:34:10] Yeah, that's all about that. Thank you. No problem.

[1:34:16] I would be a proponent of taking the last two that we haven't done yet.

[1:34:20] That's good.

[1:34:23] So Mr. Mark looks like that's okay.

[1:34:26] I don't see anybody. Oh, I'm sorry. Councilor May.

[1:34:29] Yes, please.

[1:34:30] You know, when we met.

[1:34:33] It seemed like everything went smooth. We were all working together and everything.

[1:34:37] Then when it came out in the packet, like I was like,

[1:34:40] Oh, my gosh, who took it upon them to fill in the tactics that the council wasn't.

[1:34:45] And that was Mr. Harvey and your staff did that and so then to me it was like, okay, wait, let me go through this

[1:34:53] So it was pulling up the things that we discussed as a group that we like to compare with this. I met with Leslie. We spent hours

[1:35:00] Going over to find out that, like, say, with affordable housing, we have ones that were on our list that aren't here. And then order is all screwed. It's different than what we did with the work together. I personally think, you know, I'd like to work it all through. And I don't know how we do that if we call like a special meeting to dial it in. And then my other question was, you know, and I'm new. So correct me if I'm wrong. Like with goals and stuff.

[1:35:30] When does the budget come into play because we could have goals that we want that it's not in the budget so it's a waste of time

[1:35:37] Well, let's talk about that. So it's not a waste of time. So we will present to you a balanced budget.

[1:35:44] It'll be structurally balanced meaning your expenditures and your revenues will be matching.

[1:35:49] At any time the budget's a living document. So if you make a policy decision that we need to revise the budget, that is fine.

[1:35:56] that the chairs do not stop moving once we adopted.

[1:36:00] So what we would propose considering where we had it.

[1:36:03] And this is normal, it often takes a long time

[1:36:05] to get the goals and the tactics adopted.

[1:36:07] It's a big deal.

[1:36:10] We would propose once the chairs stop moving,

[1:36:12] meaning that you've agreed upon the goals

[1:36:13] and the corresponding tactics, we would monetize them

[1:36:17] as best we could, for instance, this tactic to do this

[1:36:21] is going to cost $100,000, and you don't have it program.

[1:36:24] So you can make policy decisions and a policy decision might be yeah, that's a one-time expenditure

[1:36:30] I'm comfortable pulling that from the unprogrammed reserves. That makes sense for the city or

[1:36:35] No, I'd like to remove something else and put this in its place that type of thing

[1:36:41] I just I want to say I had the same thought and I think I'm imagining even when we get to the voting

[1:36:48] I was trying to say yeah, you might want all the things on the list, but we can't afford all the things on the list

[1:36:53] right so when it becomes monetized I don't think that has to stop the budget when it becomes

[1:36:58] monetized though then we will say it's like then the rubber hits the road and then we're

[1:37:02] getting inside hey which which do we want to do now which do we want to postpone but I think

[1:37:07] it's obviously that has to be part of our conversation is what's again a cost and we can't do

[1:37:12] it we can't do it we can't do it 10 things for this amount or you know what I mean what do we

[1:37:16] want to do exactly I'm hearing you say something though which is you tell me from getting you right

[1:37:22] you're favoring almost like a workshop that we do the whole thing on a day. That's only that.

[1:37:29] That's just my thing where the focus, you know what I mean instead of, I don't know.

[1:37:33] I'm up for whatever, but that's what I thought it would be nice to go because of the changes

[1:37:37] in what we already agreed to. But, you know, I'll just say for instance the Affordable Housing

[1:37:43] The goal that we had number one is not there, number three, number six, number eight.

[1:37:52] So all of those, so it's like going, you know what I'm...

[1:37:54] The ones from our prior list that we kind of agreed we did about, but it's like, okay, here's where we're at.

[1:38:01] So let me see.

[1:38:02] I do want to piggyback on what you're saying because, well, it's true that Mr. Harvey, tell me if I'm getting you wrong.

[1:38:08] There were, in the effort to consolidate some of the things that were very close, some things were omitted not intentionally.

[1:38:16] That's right. Yes, right. This part of, in addition to filling in the blanks on those goals that you did not get to and we were only doing that.

[1:38:23] And you may recall this discussion last time not trying to tell you what your tactics are, but just to speed the process up if you will give you a starting point.

[1:38:31] But some of the tactics when we, when we were not in the public meeting, when we were able to sit and look at them thoughtfully,

[1:38:36] they were either similar or they were somewhere else in another goal area because

[1:38:42] you have and it's that sounds totally crazy but it's true you might have something

[1:38:46] that was in public safety it was also an infrastructure and we just made

[1:38:51] a staff recommendation it's not the policy decision oh this probably makes more sense

[1:38:56] in public safety than infrastructure but that does not have to be the way it is

[1:39:00] So just suggestions from staff, understand?

[1:39:03] So I'm thinking a little bit kind of raining it in.

[1:39:08] I'd like to get through the goals and tactics, get to the end.

[1:39:13] And I think the idea of having a special session where we focus on this and we get it,

[1:39:19] we have an opportunity to work together to get to as finalized a version as final ever

[1:39:26] is that we walk away from and, you know, we can set two and a half hours to do that, you know, we all do our homework. I slept, you know, I hate it. It was hot. I slept. What can I say? But I think that that's a very good suggestion that we workshop this. Let's get through the last two. I would like to just, at some point, throw out a change that I'm thinking about so that the council can also,

[1:39:56] consider it for a goal, but you know.

[1:40:00] Let's move first through the last two that we have, I think, because I've been hearing, you know, it takes a while for this to get to the public. And so the public is now feeding back, you know, suggestions, things that we did, you know, the first three goals are now coming, you know, they're now finding their form back to us. So yeah.

[1:40:21] Thank you. I appreciate that. You'll probably real quick get some more input on this because you may have received your Ohio outlook newsletter in your mailbox and there was an article on the goal

[1:40:30] So you're probably going to people talking you about that, too. Yeah, maybe this is the time for a public comment and then we'll get to seven and I mean eight and nine. That sounds reasonable

[1:40:39] Okay, so I'll start with Larry Steingold, Eric and Karina Wright.

[1:40:48] Wonderful great tactics strategy the whole bit

[1:40:53] suggestions

[1:40:55] Fireheartening, there is nothing here that says next agenda, next agenda, an action date.

[1:41:03] That says we will have embroscreens, we will have remove these things.

[1:41:07] Where is there an action date here that says by next, this has been going on since the Thompson Fire.

[1:41:14] Okay, now it's been increased because of the insurance in the past two years.

[1:41:18] There is nothing here. It's always an agenda item. It's press, evaluate, explore, promote,

[1:41:24] how about do, do something next agenda? Whether it's ember screens or remove fees for any

[1:41:32] fire hardening temporarily for one year, wave them or remove eucalyptus trees or Spanish

[1:41:40] palms but do something. Okay. Tactics for public safety.

[1:41:47] Please tell the chief Jenkins

[1:41:49] Steve to enforce all parking traffic regulations and bike rules effective immediately. I know

[1:41:58] he has a plan, but it would be nice to start immediately on whether it's ticketing or leaving notes

[1:42:05] on people's cars, not to park close to a stop sign, to start out with, please don't do this,

[1:42:11] please don't do that and then bring down a hammer. Financial stay a bit, financial stability.

[1:42:20] There is nothing here that specifically says, do we or do we not raise the TOT to pay for

[1:42:27] items that we're probably going to be committing to for eternity, such as the housing.

[1:42:37] Just put it there so it's some sort of just raise the TOT put it on the agenda and have a conversation about it.

[1:42:43] But do it now so if you have to be on the ballot, we can get it on the ballot.

[1:42:48] But let's not plan to have a conversation about it because this is all about money.

[1:42:52] Because if you had plenty of money, you could do all your priorities.

[1:42:55] And we should plan for the economy to tank in which case all these fixed expenses we're having, something's got a break.

[1:43:07] And protocols, that's coming.

[1:43:13] Oh, sorry, sorry, I'm on that.

[1:43:16] But please, action dates on this stuff.

[1:43:19] On fire hardening, it's all about fire hardening.

[1:43:21] Insurance has gone up.

[1:43:23] We need to get this done and we've had studies

[1:43:26] in if the fire counsel needs money.

[1:43:28] Just ask them how much they need to get this moving

[1:43:31] since we're flush with cash.

[1:43:33] Thank you.

[1:43:33] Thank you, Mr. Steingold.

[1:43:36] Eric, Carina Wright, and Bill Myley.

[1:43:41] It just said Eric.

[1:43:44] Okay, Carina Wright, and Bill Myley, and Molly Yings.

[1:43:57] Good evening.

[1:43:59] Thank you for this opportunity.

[1:44:03] I, like, Council Member Rule said,

[1:44:06] it is kind of hitting the public, and people are suddenly like,

[1:44:08] wait, what's going on?

[1:44:10] So I just want to take a moment to give you a couple of triggers.

[1:44:14] I feel strongly against increased sales tax for our community.

[1:44:20] I hope that doesn't go anywhere.

[1:44:22] And paid parking.

[1:44:24] That has been visited time and time again.

[1:44:27] And I'm sure we'll figure out other ways to generate revenue.

[1:44:31] And this town then make it more expensive for us to live here already.

[1:44:36] Given how many taxes we paid.

[1:44:38] Now,

[1:44:40] onto this amazing goal of arts, culture and recreation funding.

[1:44:44] So thank you for that. As you know, I am a arts commissioner. I'm not here in that capacity tonight, but I love seeing all of these initiatives and I really hope we can get some of them pass through. I've had the opportunity to this last couple of months.

[1:45:00] To see a lot of the programs that have come to fruition from the grants money, and it's just incredible and inspiring.

[1:45:08] And how these organizations lift our community is immeasurable. So I don't want to put a number on that, but I hope that you put a big one on that.

[1:45:17] And I would just say regarding all of these things, the, you know, expanding the walking tour, the round table, please can we get that joint session meeting scheduled because I'm sure you've been talking to Chair West.

[1:45:32] I mean, we have our fingers on the pulse here and we have so many ideas and we do have round table discussions and we do organize these types of things and we really need that website.

[1:45:43] And just again, somebody's like,

[1:45:45] why can't we have this central art calendar?

[1:45:50] So everybody knows, like, I'm doing my fundraiser,

[1:45:53] the first we can amay.

[1:45:54] Three other people were doing their fundraiser.

[1:45:56] Like, we can do better.

[1:45:58] So with the city's communication system,

[1:46:01] let's all collaborate and make that happen.

[1:46:03] So thank you so much.

[1:46:05] Thank you, Mr. Ray.

[1:46:07] Bill Miley, Molly Gankser, and Jeffrey Starkweather.

[1:46:16] comments on five of the nine, portable housing, one, consider using housing trust funds for

[1:46:27] aiding low-income homeowners of older, un-insulated houses, to insulate them, especially

[1:46:36] exterior walls. Consider allocating a portion of the TOT revenues for ongoing support

[1:46:45] of City Homeless Prevention and Rehab Services and Programs and on-site housing and case work.

[1:46:57] 2.

[1:46:57] Well far safety risk mitigation.

[1:47:00] Consider adding something new here.

[1:47:04] Barricade gel, barricade gel, which is a product you spray on the house and also the plants in the trees,

[1:47:12] Which will stop the fire from burning it up if you do it within one or two days of the wildfire item six

[1:47:22] The veresifying economy tourist management

[1:47:27] Develop an ongoing survey of tourists for needs

[1:47:32] wants

[1:47:33] demographics

[1:47:36] Expectations and suggestion do that with a chamber in the tourist vendors

[1:47:42] Use it to adjust and fine-tune, tourists, the economy goals and the tactics.

[1:47:50] Like, where do you come from? Have you been here before? Do you know I've been here ten times?

[1:47:56] The one thing on this is that charcoal at ice cream that I used to buy down the Londoner.

[1:48:04] Climate resiliency, considering creating a lower no-cost program for a house and building owners to have

[1:48:11] and energy audit, it didn't did in the last time, and I was disappointed.

[1:48:16] SEC does that. Consider implementing the Sierra Collective idea for biobacence, the

[1:48:24] collect water, and nine communication and relationships. Please consider crafting an annual report

[1:48:33] to the public on what the city government does for his citizens and residents. Add that to the

[1:48:41] proposed already listed financial and report.

[1:48:46] Please increase citizen, this will increase citizen understanding of what the government

[1:48:52] does, how it does it, and where the money goes.

[1:48:56] And the last thing, consider changing the way in which recordings or minutes of closed sessions

[1:49:06] are done.

[1:49:07] Next item, Mr. Miley.

[1:49:08] Oh, sorry.

[1:49:10] That's okay.

[1:49:11] Okay.

[1:49:11] I guess, oh, sorry.

[1:49:13] Were you trying to Mr. Miley?

[1:49:15] Would it be one of the goals here?

[1:49:17] I misunderstood that.

[1:49:19] A tactic under a community.

[1:49:20] I wish to be a goal for communication and relationships.

[1:49:25] My, my fault.

[1:49:26] Thank you.

[1:49:27] Audio recording.

[1:49:29] Okay.

[1:49:31] All right.

[1:49:32] Thank you.

[1:49:33] Molly Gangster, Jeffrey Starkweather, and John Boid.

[1:49:44] My name is Molly.

[1:49:45] and I'm here representing the Humane Society of Ventura County.

[1:49:51] Our shelter is just down the street on Bryant.

[1:49:56] I would like to propose that the city of Ohio consider...

[1:50:00] Entering into a professional services agreement with us and add animal initiatives to your list of city council goals and tactics.

[1:50:09] As the shelters development manager, I engage our community to raise awareness about the services our staff provides and to secure donations in grants to subsidize these services for the people and animals of Ohio.

[1:50:25] The Humane Society is a compassionate care shelter and nonprofit organization.

[1:50:31] We perform free and low-cost, spay and neuter services four days a week and free vaccines

[1:50:37] every single Saturday.

[1:50:39] Additionally, we have a team of Humane officers who investigate situations of animal abuse

[1:50:46] and neglect and enforce anti-cruity laws in our city.

[1:50:51] This partnership would be invaluable in providing more of these essential services.

[1:50:58] Our collaboration would not only elevate our capacity, but also strengthen our relationship

[1:51:03] with O.I.s carrying residents enabling us to make a tangible difference in our community.

[1:51:09] Thank you for your consideration and for everything that you guys do.

[1:51:13] Thank you.

[1:51:15] Jeffrey Starkweather, John Boetti, and Betsy Sticks.

[1:51:18] want to thank all the City Councilman for all the work you've done in this. And I would say

[1:51:25] we need to be a little bit flexible if we get too far in the weeds. I think could be a problem

[1:51:31] in terms of implementation. We were supposed to be reducing the number of goals. That was

[1:51:37] at least one of the mayor's objectives. So this is not doing that. But I think if you're going to

[1:51:44] to make these things happen. You need to involve the citizens. Not just the staff. You have promoted,

[1:51:51] you have already have this part of the land use plan, a climate committee. It's opposed. I don't think

[1:51:57] it's been appointed yet. And you have a tourism economic development committee. I think you need

[1:52:04] something like the mayor proposed, a housing commission. And I also think with fire, we have a lot

[1:52:10] expert people in our town. I don't think the staff can cover everything that's going on here.

[1:52:16] We can't just commission it to a fire safe council. Those people could be staffed for it,

[1:52:22] but I think we should have a commission that starts working on these things. The ask you all

[1:52:27] to figure all this out and implement it and the staff to make it all go. I think it's too much.

[1:52:32] In the housing area, I would just say that we need to be looking at community land trusts.

[1:52:40] When we're talking about the idea of working with market rate development,

[1:52:44] that should include nonprofit.

[1:52:46] Actually, should developments mixed income developments that include both.

[1:52:51] Obviously with more affordable housing.

[1:52:55] Inclusionary zoning is not of much use in all high,

[1:52:59] because unless you have large scale developments,

[1:53:01] That's when that applies when you have subdivisions. Otherwise, you know, we don't need a fire protection. I mentioned in the commission.

[1:53:10] Um, economic development. Um, someone just mentioned against charging people for parking.

[1:53:18] I would say one of the best things we could do about people claim that downtown traffic would be weekend, smart meters on our parking lots and them.

[1:53:29] Because those, they turn things over about 20% of our traffic

[1:53:33] is people looking for places to park.

[1:53:37] Finally, on the climate one,

[1:53:41] the word should not be mitigation.

[1:53:44] Because mitigation means reducing greenhouse gas.

[1:53:49] But if you're, I mean, adaptation means how do you adapt

[1:53:53] to those changes?

[1:53:54] We need both.

[1:53:55] So resilience is something that it covers both.

[1:53:58] mitigation and adaptation or subcategories of that. Obviously, some things can do all those things and the final thing, which

[1:54:09] Remind you that the best way to reduce greenhouse gas is in fail housing to reduce traffic in and out of Ohio for the 86% of our work.

[1:54:24] Thank you, Mr. Starkweather.

[1:54:26] John Boetti, Betsy Sticks and Brian Akins.

[1:54:32] Good evening, Council and staff.

[1:54:36] Just want to say, again, how much I appreciate your selfless support for the city.

[1:54:43] It does not go unnoticed, so thank you all.

[1:54:47] I just want to say that I disagree with Mr. Stark weather.

[1:54:50] The last thing I want to see is parking meters in Ohio.

[1:54:53] Let's distinguish ourselves from other communities that have done this.

[1:54:59] I just...

[1:55:00] As Ms. Wright said, we cost enough to live here. I don't think we need to pay for parking.

[1:55:09] But I'm here to just speak briefly on the climate action goal.

[1:55:17] And I think at this time to address the issue of climate action in the same aggressive and progressive way that the city council approached several issues in the last few years.

[1:55:28] Some that come to mind are the greenhouse gas reduction code ordinance, the rent stabilization and tenant protection ordinance,

[1:55:39] several animal rights initiatives, including an elephant protection ordinance, a ban on glue traps and an ethical breeding ordinance.

[1:55:52] So let's get going immediately on a comprehensive climate ordinance that serves as a model to other communities, not only in California, but throughout the country.

[1:56:04] Thank you.

[1:56:05] Thank you, sir.

[1:56:07] Betsy Sticks, Brian Ackens, and Dale Hansen.

[1:56:11] Thank you, Council Mayor and staff.

[1:56:14] My dog Harry could make it tonight, but he sends his regards to everyone.

[1:56:17] And thanks you too and I just want to salute the time and thought that you have put into this goal setting.

[1:56:23] It's a roadmap to our future and it's really important.

[1:56:27] So I'm just here to reiterate the requests that I made at the last meeting that you had three animal care and inclusion initiatives to your list of goals.

[1:56:35] Specifically a professional services agreement with the Humane Society that Molly spoke about so eloquently.

[1:56:41] are renters rights ordinance that allows renters to have animals in a quality of life for animals

[1:56:48] ordinance. Let's continue to be a beacon of compassion and lead by example by taking care of all beings

[1:56:55] and demonstrating what a culture of care looks like. And thank you to Councilmember Role for this

[1:57:01] suggestion about potentially I'm sure you're going to talk about later putting that into goal number three

[1:57:06] I think that's a great idea, enrichment.

[1:57:10] Also, you could have a whole separate category

[1:57:12] just about animals, just an idea, including wild animals

[1:57:16] because we interact with them every single day.

[1:57:20] And just a quick reminder, just while we're on the subject

[1:57:22] of the Humane Society, the birthday bash is on Saturday.

[1:57:25] June 14th, it's the only fundraiser of the year.

[1:57:28] So please come and just wag your tails right over to the event

[1:57:30] because it's going to be really fun.

[1:57:33] And then just in terms of the climate,

[1:57:34] But please make sure that the climate goals are about taking action.

[1:57:39] The planet is burning up, and we all need to do everything that we can to address climate change

[1:57:45] and our greenhouse gas emissions.

[1:57:47] It's time for action, not study.

[1:57:49] The research is in every action that we take from getting electric appliances to line, drawing

[1:57:56] our clothing, to getting rid of single-use plastics, to running a bike, to eating a plant-based

[1:58:01] diet, makes a difference.

[1:58:02] and every decision needs to be looked at through the climate lens.

[1:58:07] We need to hold ourselves and each other accountable.

[1:58:11] We're all in this together, sharing the same home,

[1:58:14] and it's time to put the pedal to the metal here for the collective good.

[1:58:18] This is a situation in which we do want speeding,

[1:58:22] and we won't get a ticket.

[1:58:24] We will, though, leave a planet for our children and their children's children

[1:58:28] that is habitable.

[1:58:30] We cannot wait any longer.

[1:58:31] people visit Ohio every day looking for a sustainable and

[1:58:36] seen way of living. So let's show them the way. Thank you very

[1:58:40] much. Thank you, Mr. Brian Eekins and Dale Hanson.

[1:58:49] Hello, everyone.

[1:58:51] Multiple apps had something to name. First of all, I do want to add my

[1:58:55] congratulations to all of the work that went in putting this together. It's a

[1:58:59] fabulous document. That's why I asked for the big copy from Weston to go with

[1:59:05] my smaller copy. Just a couple of things going through. Item 3C expand the walking tour

[1:59:11] of downtown. Oh, hi. They museum currently is doing that. We'd love to be involved in

[1:59:17] making that group. Same thing on item 3K. These are under arts culture. It says here

[1:59:24] applicants, influencing arts culture and recreation. Yeah, we do that too. So we appreciate

[1:59:33] those inclusions. Jumping over to item number nine.

[1:59:40] It's just to intimidate. As I said, I've been around

[1:59:44] council meetings for a number of years. I lived in a book view for 44 years. I've been going to

[1:59:51] council meetings in Ohio for 10 years and I can tell you that there's a big difference between

[1:59:58] and up to you, no hype.

[2:00:00] But I love them both and that's why I'm here regularly. I want to jump down. And the reason I mentioned that is item number 9K initiative,

[2:00:10] of Valley-wide advising council. Just to point out that the community of Ohio has the Ohio Valley

[2:00:19] Municipal Advisory Council that they meet in our community center, the Oakview Community

[2:00:24] Center, deals with everything outside the City of Ohio. Great place for people to come and

[2:00:30] see what's taking place elsewhere. The other thing is we have an Oakview Advisory Commission,

[2:00:37] which was put in place by Mount Lavera that just changed names last night to Oakview neighboring

[2:00:43] council neighborhood council. So we learned things in there that are attributable to other

[2:00:51] areas and one and have that here. We also have a certain program that's starting up on that.

[2:00:57] We all hate traffic and talking about traffic. I will tell you that and we discussed this last night

[2:01:05] Second, at the Oakview Park and Resource Center, we'll be meeting with CalTrans from 532, I think 730 that night, so CalTrans is coming into to talk to us and to get information and put information out there in a process of taking

[2:01:24] I believe in information from people.

[2:01:28] Again, Sert, Cal Trans Traffic.

[2:01:31] Those things are things that we,

[2:01:34] that the two organizations could get together so we're informed each other.

[2:01:39] Again, Cal Trans, June 2nd.

[2:01:41] You're going to want to be there.

[2:01:43] Thanks, bye.

[2:01:44] Thank you, Mr. Hakeens.

[2:01:45] Dale Hansen, please.

[2:01:50] Thank you.

[2:01:52] I'm Dale Hansen.

[2:01:53] I live in the city of Ohio.

[2:01:54] We used to have to say that all the time, but no one says it anymore.

[2:01:57] Anyway, just on that offside, I hope we never put parking meters in Ohio because that would

[2:02:04] definitely take away from the small town look that we're trying to preserve.

[2:02:09] But what I'm really here to talk about tonight are the animal initiatives, and I really

[2:02:13] hope that we do go forward with the services agreement with the Humane Society.

[2:02:17] We're so lucky to have them here in our city.

[2:02:20] I know they represent the county, but it's nice that they're here in Ohio.

[2:02:24] I also want to talk about the right for renders to have animals as a real estate agent.

[2:02:31] I help landlords find renters and I help renters find renting.

[2:02:37] I don't think it's right that we should insist that landlords accept animals, but whenever

[2:02:42] I'm in the process of an application, I will always ask the landlord to please consider animals.

[2:02:50] You can meet the animals.

[2:02:51] The same way you meet the people, you meet the animal first, and you see, you don't want to live with the animal, what's it like, and usually that works.

[2:03:02] So we want to encourage them to do it. The other thing is that I don't think that they should increase the rent because of an animal, but I do think that they should have the right to increase the deposit that they hold.

[2:03:16] Because if the animal doesn't do any damage, then the renter gets the money back, but if the animal does do damage, the landlord should have a right to collect for that damage.

[2:03:27] And that puts the landlord in the position where they really have to take care of their animal and do what they should do as a landlord.

[2:03:35] So I really think that having the quality of life include the animals that we live with, and also the wild animals.

[2:03:42] I think that's so important that what it says to us as a city and a community and I hope

[2:03:48] you will consider that in the goals.

[2:03:50] Thank you so much.

[2:03:51] Thank you, Ms. Hampton.

[2:03:52] Anything online, Mr. Montgomery?

[2:03:54] Yes, Mayor.

[2:03:55] We have one raised hand from Renee.

[2:03:57] Renee, you have the ability to unmute now.

[2:04:03] Good evening.

[2:04:04] I want to make sure my volume is up here,

[2:04:09] but evening, I sent an email earlier.

[2:04:12] I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak with the City Council about priorities.

[2:04:18] I appreciate Kim Meng's comment about how are we going to pay for all these great ideas.

[2:04:25] And I also appreciate the idea of having additional information in a workshop setting that the other council member Leslie Rule was mentioning.

[2:04:37] I think that the public is just now figuring out they're going to have to get engaged and I hope

[2:04:42] you find ways for them to do it.

[2:04:45] For example, one of the ways in terms of measure C funding that was approved for fire and

[2:04:52] climate mitigation, how can we make the most of that critical funding source?

[2:05:00] To protect our community and build in resiliency. Measure C, as we know, was approved in 22, 2022. It was expected to raise about 1.3 to 1.7 million per year, but it looks like it has doubled or even tripled. And I'm really curious how much there is that has been committed of measure C funds that can be used for community.

[2:05:30] to build a strategic transparent and equitable approach for our community to adapt and address

[2:05:40] climate and fire resiliency.

[2:05:44] So we know we are uniquely vulnerable to wildfires, surrounded by steep hills, drive

[2:05:49] vegetation, wind events, fire music mitigation priorities should focus on actions that save

[2:05:57] lives and homes.

[2:05:58] we all know this is a huge priority, but cost does matter, so we need to direct these programs

[2:06:05] where they will have the most impact, especially in neighborhoods with older housing stock and

[2:06:12] with residents who can't afford these upgrades on their own. So fire doesn't stop at property lines

[2:06:19] as we know, so we want to protect the whole valley, but we know we don't have resources to do that,

[2:06:26] So we have to work together with the experts in all of these areas.

[2:06:33] So again, I think these solutions must reach everyone, not just those who already have

[2:06:38] the means, let's ensure that renters and low income families and heat vulnerable neighborhoods

[2:06:46] benefit from such things as measure, see, funds, that's how we build resiliency and equity

[2:06:54] of the same time.

[2:06:55] So I do hope you can tell us how much is in measure C reserves, what projects are in the pipeline, and who will benefit going forward.

[2:07:05] Thank you very much.

[2:07:06] Thank you, Ms. Roth.

[2:07:08] Anything else?

[2:07:08] May or next, we have Stephen Colome, even you have the floor.

[2:07:14] Hi.

[2:07:15] I submitted written comments and I don't intend to repeat any of those.

[2:07:20] My focus is on on goal number seven, which I know you're not going to discuss explicitly,

[2:07:26] but I do want to add some thoughts. There's a wealth of information in our approved housing

[2:07:32] element and it's notable that nearly 50% of residential properties are rental and that our

[2:07:39] housing stock is older and built without regard to the importance of energy costs and efficiency.

[2:07:46] Therefore in our community there is considerable low-hanging fruit available to pursue

[2:07:52] cost-effective energy conservation measures. The city could develop programs to assist

[2:07:58] renters and landlords to reduce energy bills through cost-effective energy

[2:08:03] efficiency measures. The barrier is often the capital cost that these improvements

[2:08:08] and the city could investigate ways to facilitate and incentivize a conservation

[2:08:14] measures. Similarly, I believe the city is enrolled with so-cal rent, a public agency based

[2:08:22] in Los Angeles. Most of our city buildings are old and inefficient in the use of energy.

[2:08:29] So, Cal Renn has offered without cost to the city to evaluate energy efficiency measures

[2:08:36] in city, public buildings and facilities. Their consultants will conduct in-person audits

[2:08:43] and make energy efficient see recommendations, a professional audit would help provide the solid

[2:08:51] data that is needed to prioritize facility upgrades. So Cal Ren can also help with funding

[2:08:57] and financing options. Finally, the heavy lifting has already been completed on a technical plan to

[2:09:05] enhance building energy efficiency for major residential additions and renovations.

[2:09:10] A highly regarded energy and engineering firm is available to us without charge through a grant to insist with implementation of this program.

[2:09:22] Unfortunately, that assistance is only available to us through this calendar year.

[2:09:28] Time is wasting, and that ordinance should be adopted.

[2:09:32] Thank you very much.

[2:09:34] Thank you, Mr. Call me.

[2:09:35] No more, man.

[2:09:36] Great.

[2:09:37] Um, I want to vote for a five minute break. We've been at it for two and a half nearly two and a half hours unless you guys want to five minute break. Okay

[2:19:47] That's fine. Let's do it. I do it. Me too. Do you have a Saturday? Check. Check. Oh, thank you. And we're back. So what I heard was weird.

[2:20:00] We're going to plan some kind of workshop to go through this but what we're going to do today is come up with tactics for eight and nine.

[2:20:06] I hear that right? Great. Yes. Super.

[2:20:12] We'll start with eight.

[2:20:20] Okay, there he goes. So we got a spread across two.

[2:20:25] The one thing, well, it's funny, the thing about the paving that's kind of interesting while we learned was alternative materials are being used, which is kind of interesting.

[2:20:35] And then that's not the same thing as this J, but that's one of the other items, so that's a tight already in progress.

[2:20:42] And that was something that was mentioned earlier. Remember, this is not the final format that you will see once this becomes a work plan.

[2:20:50] It will have additional granularity, including a status column with, you know, what the overall is and then notes to explain what's going on.

[2:20:59] This is just to keep it simple for right now, and because obviously you haven't adopted these, we don't want to put a status if you don't decide to do that.

[2:21:07] Well, I want to go further and say that there's some items under communications and relationships where when you see this publicized and you say, here's our goals once they finally get agreed upon and we see status.

[2:21:18] way we're communicating to the city, what we're up to you. And I'm imagining this is on the website

[2:21:24] and all that so it could be really one right and this comes back quarterly remember so it's

[2:21:29] so you guys get an idea of and the community knows how we're doing or you know I've been

[2:21:33] candid about this I mean some tactics may stall out and there may be a reason and everybody needs to

[2:21:38] know that yeah and you may decide to add additional goal you may decide to remove a goal that's all

[2:21:43] within your authority, obviously, I guess I'm eager to hear if somebody has something for

[2:21:50] eight that's not here that we can add.

[2:21:54] So I thought a lot about this one and this is a really

[2:21:58] good comprehensive list of tactics, but there's one thing that I would be interested in looking at

[2:22:10] And that is, and I don't know exactly how to word this, but something about doing an audit to see where,

[2:22:24] so Steve Columay mentioned doing an audit of our efficiency of our utilities.

[2:22:38] And if we were to do an audit and find out that we would save money by go ahead.

[2:22:46] Yeah, go ahead.

[2:22:47] This has gotten lost in the shuffle a little bit.

[2:22:50] But next month we're bringing back a recommended contract award from a result of an RFQ for firms that are doing a comprehensive energy efficiency effort for the city.

[2:23:00] Great.

[2:23:01] So we're in the final stages of vetting who we think will be our recommendation going through the references, and that's coming back to you in June.

[2:23:09] Fantastic. Thank you.

[2:23:12] That includes both replacement of outdated equipment and the buildings in general for it.

[2:23:20] Designed design build. It also availing the city of any grants or rebates that might be available or interactions with partner agencies.

[2:23:29] Great.

[2:23:29] So there you go, Mr. Steingold, there's action items.

[2:23:34] Yes, yes, great.

[2:23:36] Then that takes care of that, because I think there are that would be a way that we could ensure financial

[2:23:43] stability for the future and save some money in the present.

[2:23:48] So on ADA, this is not a change, but I think it's important that that statement that's it.

[2:23:58] So I assume we're talking about existing fees, we're talking about developer fees, and

[2:24:04] the insure costs are being recovered.

[2:24:08] We need to make sure that this is not just, you know, the cities like administrative costs,

[2:24:13] but the costs on the community if a project is going to have extensive impacts on the city

[2:24:21] and our developer fees system should be recovering those so that we can mitigate those.

[2:24:33] So I would just add to the cost statement, cost on community are being covered.

[2:24:41] Sure, and just for clarification, what we normally do in the city world is we hire a third party that comes in and does a comprehensive deep dive.

[2:24:49] takes quite a while and then they come back and then you guys decide at a policy level.

[2:24:54] If you, you know, there will be some areas you do want to recover things like you're talking

[2:24:57] about.

[2:24:57] There will be some where you decide not to, like, recreation is...

[2:25:00] Taxi aliabash, your example, where maybe you subsidize it, because you want to encourage that.

[2:25:05] But they'll tell you exactly how much you're spending and what the impact is and then you make a decision.

[2:25:09] And as part of that process, the council can also develop a recommendation or a plan for additional development mitigation or impact mitigation measures.

[2:25:20] And then charged those back to the plan. So if you imagine, he's a classic example, to develop the Western edge,

[2:25:26] In a commercial center, we would need a new bridge.

[2:25:28] You divide the cost to the estimate of the cost of the bridge, divided by the square footage

[2:25:31] of that new western commercial center, and then that becomes a new development impact fee.

[2:25:36] So that process would be part of this study if the council moved forward.

[2:25:40] And then I'll note that there's a whole three or four shelves of case law.

[2:25:44] The requires that that math be done well and be done in a way that doesn't charge more

[2:25:47] than the cost of mediating the impacts.

[2:25:51] You can't just impose the fee on developers just because it has any tie-back to the impacts

[2:25:55] that are suffered by the city from a particular development with additional laws overlaying

[2:26:00] certain protective categories, like ADUs, for example, are very much protected and limited

[2:26:04] and what fees we can charge on them, so we have to take that into account as well.

[2:26:08] All that gets baked into the classic feast study.

[2:26:10] We did this last about 19, six, seven years ago, and so it's certainly a need of an update

[2:26:18] if that's the council choice.

[2:26:23] I got a question, I'm not quite sure I understand 8J.

[2:26:29] I can tell you, it was just an idea, so it was that I was talking with Ms. Palmer a

[2:26:35] little bit about this, just to explore the possibility that if you have your paving timeline

[2:26:41] that you know is going to, as we've seen on the map where we have 2026, 2027, et cetera,

[2:26:46] through the city. If you could save money by accelerating the timeline, you know you're going

[2:26:52] to get there, but if the contractor has the capacity, but you're going to spend less

[2:26:56] doing it now. I'm simply, I was simply asking, is that even a possibility to research it?

[2:27:02] She thought, it's possible that we can look at that, but we would have to see, because it's

[2:27:05] going to cost more next year and they're just, it's really a, it's a research.

[2:27:10] Yeah. And I guess mine is a tangent to that. Maybe it's the same. The idea that if we accelerate

[2:27:19] our paving program, are we ultimately going to save in the long run because we're going

[2:27:27] to reduce our maintenance costs by getting the paving done sooner. So that I would support what

[2:27:37] you said with that kind of gentle analysis well and she's she also pointed out as we

[2:27:45] have probably all fielded questions why isn't this street getting paid and not this

[2:27:49] street and we realize oh there's a logic there that's not obvious about what gets paid

[2:27:53] when but there's capacity on what the contract can do so I just ask I know lots of photographs

[2:28:02] Of course.

[2:28:03] It's about why the ability to pay.

[2:28:05] Well, I haven't.

[2:28:06] I haven't.

[2:28:07] I could show them.

[2:28:09] And why?

[2:28:10] And this Palmer's great explanation of that.

[2:28:13] And I could, I'll just explain also on I, what I wanted to do in this budget cycle was,

[2:28:20] you know, work with our chief, but also with the county and say, let's just look carefully

[2:28:25] at the services.

[2:28:25] Because it comes up and it's a gigantic budget item.

[2:28:28] So we should be looking at that.

[2:28:29] is it making sense then? I'm pleased what I'm seeing so far, very pleased to be

[2:28:36] scrutinizing that. I'm really glad you brought that one up. Thank you.

[2:28:45] Sure. Yeah,

[2:28:46] for the last few years. Yep.

[2:28:52] I do like Mr. Miley's idea that comprehensive financial

[2:28:54] report could also be an annual report, which would be fun. That would be good.

[2:29:03] That might,

[2:29:06] separate type thing that what Mr. Miley is proposing. This is more, I don't think he would

[2:29:09] find this one very, and he's aiming to read. It's much more of an accounting exercise.

[2:29:16] It's an important thing to do, and we, and most cities do this, and we have nods.

[2:29:24] But on Mr. Miley's suggestion, I would propose, if you want to do that, that'd be in

[2:29:29] something in number nine. Yeah, fair enough. Yep. Okay. So on number nine, before we go, can we just say, are we

[2:29:36] done? Yeah, we can finish with it. Yeah, anything else? Yeah, I have a couple of things on anything. Yeah,

[2:29:41] please go there. We're good. Go ahead. Okay. So I'm just wondering where we are with the budget

[2:29:48] committee. So, at this point, it looks to me like, you know, we're quickly coming upon the end of

[2:29:57] fiscal year, and that item was pulled from...

[2:30:00] Incent and has not shown itself that.

[2:30:02] Yeah, I believe it's coming back at the next meeting. I seem to recall from this Mr. Montgomery is not in his head.

[2:30:09] And to your point, council member, I think one of the things we've tasked the budget committee with doing is reviewing the investment policy, knowing that basically that's what they can do.

[2:30:19] Right. This point, you know, we're bringing the budget the very next meeting. So it's right.

[2:30:23] But going forward, you know, we'll have the committee in place and we can.

[2:30:27] Yeah, that's great. And so also on ATC, I have a question on the allocations of city

[2:30:35] cost to determine special revenues or being fully utilized. What special revenues are we talking

[2:30:41] about Tier T money, or we talking about measures C money, or we talking about measure. Enterprise funds

[2:30:48] and revenues like measure C, yes. Okay, so an enterprise funds meaning cemetery, what's

[2:30:56] or other enterprise.

[2:30:57] It's Raleigh.

[2:30:58] Okay.

[2:30:59] Okay.

[2:31:00] So, funds that come from a specific source for the main only be used for that one purpose.

[2:31:05] And funds that come.

[2:31:07] For measures, I see, but also for you being like grants that would come in or.

[2:31:11] Right.

[2:31:12] So, like, right, but this actually I think is really in Miss Billings.

[2:31:17] Compose this and she's not here tonight.

[2:31:18] She's on a vacation.

[2:31:20] But I think what really we were talking about was I was working with her.

[2:31:24] we want to do a better job with what money comes in with measure C, what is it used for?

[2:31:29] You know, what policy decisions are available to you guys, right, this amount of money,

[2:31:34] or the intended purposes that were specified by the voters. Right. And so we need to actually

[2:31:38] interpret, I mean, the language is somewhat clear, but we also need to discuss what we believe falls

[2:31:44] under that and what we believe falls outside of that. That's right. And then how we allocate that

[2:31:51] we do have a list of those things that we think are most the do fall within that. Okay that's great

[2:31:57] that's what I was thinking on special revenues but I wasn't sure. For AD I and I think council member

[2:32:05] Mang and I have talked about this. We want to know what properties the city owns. Sure

[2:32:11] and I have a different inventory of that. Well I can provide that to you all and to the community

[2:32:16] that are immediately we actually have a very nice power point that's available from community

[2:32:21] development that details every single property picture and a description so that's

[2:32:26] available right now we can send it out to you. I think that'd be great and I think it also

[2:32:30] would be really wonderful to make it available to the public you know like yeah that would

[2:32:36] be really cool um because I remember right that would work shop previously but there's

[2:32:40] no reason it shouldn't be front set on the website yeah yeah we can do that we're just even

[2:32:44] even some sort of notice.

[2:32:47] So for AE, the grant management policy,

[2:32:52] is that grants that we receive,

[2:32:55] or is that grants that we give, or is that both?

[2:32:58] No, that's grants we receive.

[2:32:59] And really, what we've found in this again

[2:33:02] is we're doing a better job in our financial area

[2:33:04] as we need to install some rigor

[2:33:06] in there, all the grants have reporting requirements

[2:33:08] and we need to make sure that there's a personal sign

[2:33:12] doing that, you know, rather than just assuming that the finance department is going to somehow.

[2:33:17] Right, and it also will help us decide, you know, if we want that grant and, you know,

[2:33:22] some of our own risks, right, some were like incredibly onerous to,

[2:33:25] do we have resources than to someone stepping up to be able to manage that because that makes perfect sense.

[2:33:30] Thank you. And then the other thing I kind of wanted to bring up, and this is more a budget idea,

[2:33:36] but there are towns that, you know, their entire budget is interactive.

[2:33:40] So you can click on something and item and it will take you to a different page that has all the breakdowns and all of the information you could possibly need and so that you're not you're nodding.

[2:33:52] So you're not scrolling through 90 days.

[2:33:54] This is a software tool like ClearGov or OpenGov and there's a bunch of them and we could definitely that could be a tactic on here and we could put that in here.

[2:34:00] The nice thing about it is it allows your communities slice and dice so they can do their own reporting.

[2:34:06] So ultimately it frees up your your financial team a little bit because, you know, Larry can go in and do his own

[2:34:13] Report, rather than asking for it. Yeah, it's very helpful. Yeah, right

[2:34:21] Well, that's the great thing about it because it's you know, it's all based upon information that is pulled from the database

[2:34:26] So the results are solid, you know, then if you do this, this is what you get. Okay, right in

[2:34:31] Yeah, there's opt if there's opt itself software. That's great

[2:34:34] So that would be an additional item that if you wanted to add that in here.

[2:34:39] That could certainly, you know, I'm just going to say something like Procure,

[2:34:43] Carole, I want to help you with this one.

[2:34:45] I know you're familiar with this type of software.

[2:34:47] Yeah, it'd be an interactive budget reporting booth.

[2:34:51] Let's say that again, a little more loud.

[2:34:52] It's an interactive budget reporting booth.

[2:34:54] Okay.

[2:34:54] Okay, thank you.

[2:34:57] That's it.

[2:35:01] And when you're at your next legal account for any cities conference, I'll be like five vendors that can, I'm sure they will. Perfect. Yeah. Are they giving coffee in? Yes, right. Ice cream out.

[2:35:14] Okay. Yeah. And 8G Conductive Facilities Reserve Study to term and set a slide amounts for future capital improvements. Okay, that's, you know, that's a good, that's good. I think I may, that makes sense to me. So that those are, we're my only additions and clarifications. Thank you.

[2:35:33] Right. So I think I've got one additional tactic. I've got some clarification on two others and that's what I'm seeing right now that I miss anything.

[2:35:43] No. I'm just going to, this is a little bit tangential, but when we were talking about, I think it's very important.

[2:35:49] impact fees are quantifiable in the fact that they're legislated and things like that.

[2:35:56] But for me, when I hear the costs to the city, to me, it's something less quantifiable

[2:36:03] that the council should be discussing.

[2:36:07] Like, it's like, what's the cost to the citizens who live

[2:36:11] here in actually walking through the world and their daily life?

[2:36:17] Now, that is not for financial stability, but when I hear that term, I keep remembering people

[2:36:23] saying, well, what's the benefit to the community, you know, not necessarily like what are

[2:36:30] the costs, but the benefits.

[2:36:32] So I'd like to also keep that in mind as a criteria every time we sort of make these decisions.

[2:36:39] So that's the gist of the fee study.

[2:36:41] If you decide on the policy level, what you want to subsidize and what you want to get

[2:36:46] full cost recovery for those very reasons you to specify.

[2:36:49] Okay, thank you.

[2:36:50] Absolutely.

[2:36:52] Okay, move on to nine.

[2:37:06] So I have a new gold or tack the key.

[2:37:10] Uh, it's not like sort of city managers, but we had a long discussion about the dressing

[2:37:20] neighborhood traffic issues and complaints, and a city manager suggested that we could

[2:37:29] think about having a traffic commission, whose purpose would be to hear from the community.

[2:37:41] Their complaints about traffic in general or specific traffic issues.

[2:37:47] or they're very good ideas and their ideas about how to mitigate them and and that that would

[2:37:53] then we develop a system for that to appropriate amount of that information to come on in the city.

[2:38:02] Let me just jump in here. I appreciate the Councilman ring this up very much. Most cities have

[2:38:06] what they call traffic safety commission and it's usually staffed on the staff level by the police

[2:38:11] chief and the public works director and it is that forum for people to bring in a traffic

[2:38:16] a complaint, concern, idea, and it's an appointed commission.

[2:38:20] So yes, most city managers would never ever

[2:38:22] suggest creating an additional commission.

[2:38:24] I am doing that.

[2:38:25] But I think what I've experienced lately, especially

[2:38:28] with the additional paving that we've done,

[2:38:30] is it's hit me clear as a bell, as I'm talking to neighbors

[2:38:33] and on drown, neighbors on Kuyama, it's like,

[2:38:36] wait, wait, wait, what's missing here?

[2:38:38] Oh, we don't have a forum for them to go to,

[2:38:41] or you all appoint a commissioner, and that's where it starts.

[2:38:45] And then the chief of police is there, the public works

[2:38:47] directors there, and they can provide their input.

[2:38:50] And then the commission recommends to you all, whether

[2:38:53] this is something that they want you to consider or not.

[2:38:56] But it kind of carves you out of it and allows for

[2:38:59] the separate forum, which is usually very healthy.

[2:39:03] How do you feel about that?

[2:39:08] So I'm for it, because what I found is not only

[2:39:12] it gives the public a forum to talk about, you know,

[2:39:16] there are issues but you get some really good ideas too from the neighborhood right so

[2:39:21] and then it can be vetted out and then sent to you and and I like the idea does kind of wall off

[2:39:27] the city council like I mean that's that's kind of nice to create that barrier or

[2:39:32] any ideas come out of the all all complaints should go to that commission as well so I'm for it

[2:39:39] And I think sort of, I was just going to say sort of an umbudsman sort of, uh, I want to say, you know, capacity, but it allows people to come in and, you know, speak to their issues and have someone listen to the specific, you know, like.

[2:40:00] Round, you know, second house, off a grant, we got this problem. So I think the embudsman effect is also very, very important.

[2:40:13] There's a theory and relationships that

[2:40:19] people sometimes feel like they don't want to hear the complaint.

[2:40:26] But it's really important to the relationship, the personality, the ability to express, so that, you know, and you're going to tell us personal.

[2:40:40] So I got some poetry tonight.

[2:40:44] Yeah, no, it was one of those communications was one of those units.

[2:40:49] You know, to the college I did, that I didn't need, but it was actually maybe I got more value out of that than others.

[2:40:57] No, that's good.

[2:40:59] Oh, go ahead.

[2:41:00] Please.

[2:41:00] Okay, so I'm moving on to a couple of different things here.

[2:41:05] First of all, I would...

[2:41:08] But I think that there's some communications in terms of signage that we need to look at.

[2:41:18] Number one, I think it would be helpful after we heard public comments tonight to look

[2:41:22] at some kind of interactive signs or some kind of signs for the trolley.

[2:41:25] The trolley stop and the bus stops.

[2:41:29] And the oxnard, there have been several interactive bus signs that have gone up an oxnard

[2:41:36] and they're really helpful for writers.

[2:41:40] So, interactive signage,

[2:41:42] and maybe even something here

[2:41:44] where we have, you know, when people come into town

[2:41:48] or there's an interactive sign

[2:41:50] that they can see like here are the attractions

[2:41:52] or here is something some history about the city,

[2:41:56] something like that, and then we ask type thing.

[2:42:00] A kiosk, yes.

[2:42:02] And then also, I would love for us to look

[2:42:05] at signage in the arcade, that would keep make it so that there aren't so many A for

[2:42:14] and so much boards that would really, really quick on that one. That is a current

[2:42:21] code enforcement effort. Those are actually prohibited. Okay, yes.

[2:42:25] We are actually right now addressing that. That was a meeting.

[2:42:28] Fantastic. And they are so ago so that those are not allowed. So you want to change that law that's fine,

[2:42:33] currently you can't have it. No, I, I think that's it. If we had like some kind of

[2:42:39] really nice, like consistent signage all through the city parking and I know we have signage now,

[2:42:46] but people aren't seeing it. And and so anyway. So to so that might be something like a way of

[2:42:52] way of finding, right, a way of finding audit or a way of finding an approach. Exactly.

[2:42:56] Design a way of finding a approach or something like that. Right. Right. And then the other

[2:43:02] thing that I had was relationships with animals,

[2:43:08] and I have a couple of things that I'll

[2:43:12] mention, and I know Council Member Rul has a couple of things that she wants to mention,

[2:43:17] too, but I think it would be good to enter into a professional service as agreement with

[2:43:22] the Humane Society,

[2:43:26] and then also to consider looking at an ordinance that supports

[2:43:31] renters rights to have animals in their homes. So thinking about relationships in that more

[2:43:36] holistic, that it's not just about our relationships with the public, but it's also

[2:43:42] what are we doing to foster a real sense of community in a sense of belonging and connection?

[2:43:48] So I, and so I wanted to add those two things as well. And then I also, one other thing,

[2:43:54] that is the community or the city arts calendar. The arts commission has talked about this quite a bit,

[2:44:00] So having one central hub that's connected to our website, where we can have people upload their events, that's all.

[2:44:18] Yeah, so certainly I think the relationships with animals and nature, even on a broader, you know, to go a little bit higher,

[2:44:31] up is really, really important. I'm not, I'm trying to figure out where it would best sit.

[2:44:39] I don't yet know, but I certainly think the discussion around entering into the professional

[2:44:45] service agreement with the Humane Society. There are certain things that, you know,

[2:44:51] I think are really important that they could add, if they had some support, one of them, of course,

[2:44:56] being the re-institution.

[2:45:00] Motion of night time drop-offs for strays. Okay, so I think that's really important, because otherwise you have to not pick it up or take it to Camerillo, take an animal to Camerillo to drop off. And, you know, the animals that you find in Ohio, they're from Ohio residents. So that's a huge benefit to the local residents.

[2:45:24] So, so there are other things, you know, within the professional services agreement that we could work with the

[2:45:32] humane society.

[2:45:33] So, I certainly support that, and then, you know, the ordinance that supports renters rights.

[2:45:41] That is what I support about that is not that landlords have to take animals, but that, you know,

[2:45:50] They have the right to charge security deposits that make them feel comfortable enough to take animals.

[2:45:57] And also, it really irks me when landlords charge $25 to $100 more if you have a pet, which they can do.

[2:46:07] Perhaps that's not something that we would want to support as far as, you know,

[2:46:17] what we do for rent stabilization and things like that.

[2:46:22] Yeah.

[2:46:22] Because I was thinking about this too.

[2:46:25] When I thought about what the community society and was proposing,

[2:46:29] I thought about the professional services agreement,

[2:46:32] or should it be possibly under public safety,

[2:46:35] meaning we're engaging with them to help with the spanking and

[2:46:39] neudering and the drop.

[2:46:40] So I was thinking about it in that category.

[2:46:43] Yeah.

[2:46:44] And I was thinking about it in goal three

[2:46:46] as sort of, you know, culture and enrichment funding as a way to sort of change the name of that

[2:46:55] to allow an expansive interpretation of culture. But it's I think that would be something to be discussed

[2:47:03] in the workshop, you know, and let people sort of gel with it because I certainly believe it is public

[2:47:09] safety. It's also relationships for sure. No strong relationship, really.

[2:47:17] So just on that topic, I'm just trying to do some housekeeping here. I've heard some ideas for tactics.

[2:47:23] Do you, is it the council's expectation that perhaps we just capture all the tactics that come here?

[2:47:28] And then we workshop them later rather than voting on them tonight.

[2:47:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah, figure out where they might get.

[2:47:34] This is that sound. Okay.

[2:47:36] Yeah, I guess we're working on this to make sure that we can just be a list and then we can figure out

[2:47:43] I think we should all agree to do our homework and not sleep through it

[2:47:48] So a lot of work. Yeah, but but figure out where these might go in the ones that we do support and finally

[2:47:54] I think it's also

[2:47:55] You know, there's a

[2:47:57] quality of life sort of resolution that might come to pass for companion animals, and part

[2:48:06] of that might have to do with, you know, the humane society and our professional services agreement,

[2:48:12] if we were to say that, you know, a resolution articulates the needs of a companion animal,

[2:48:20] and that might be food, which they already provide, you can go to the humane society and they

[2:48:26] give you a bag of food or dry your choice. They will give you litter. So provide that more

[2:48:34] readily. It's mostly for the tent town, but potentially it could be for others who find themselves

[2:48:41] in sort of dire needlet people know that. And finally, I think, you know, not only food and water,

[2:48:49] but also, you know, a dog park where dogs can get off leash, right? Small dogs, you know,

[2:49:00] that you don't feel safe letting them off leash in certain places. But I do believe dogs need

[2:49:07] to be off leash, I think. So I did have, you know, dog park in the city, but I think that that might

[2:49:16] fall under a quality of life resolution for our companion pets as a culture and an enrichment that we

[2:49:24] value. And you mean society, you know, they have volunteers that walk dogs, potentially, you know,

[2:49:31] for the elderly, who I'm sure would love to give their animals all that they possibly could.

[2:49:37] I'm sorry, you might as that were going to do with your mind.

[2:49:40] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm all in your life.

[2:49:43] Relationship with animals.

[2:49:45] Definitely on.

[2:49:46] Okay.

[2:49:48] Is there anything else though that you wanted to bring up?

[2:49:51] Okay.

[2:49:59] Do you have...

[2:50:00] For communication and relationships,

[2:50:05] where we have sort of improved transparency, including close session minutes. Now, I know that we have an agenda item on that.

[2:50:15] But it occurs to me that in some of these, we might start considering sort of ad hoc committees that can really delve deeply and come back to either the council or, you know, reach out.

[2:50:29] with recommendations because it's difficult sometimes to delve deeply. So consider ad hoc committees

[2:50:41] as more more normally than than we have. And being very cognizant that you know

[2:50:49] as the city manager have said, you know, ad hoc committees two people go off and they come back

[2:50:54] and they got recommendations and you're like, well, where's mine? So, you know, we have to be just

[2:50:58] have for number four our next discussion item because that's well I am suggesting it for that

[2:51:03] okay but I'm also suggesting it more broadly that there are topics on communication where it would

[2:51:08] make sense to to consider that approach. Cool.

[2:51:17] Do you have anything? I've got a few comments.

[2:51:27] So, 9G, that's just an idea, I know, and one of my concerns is that we would,

[2:51:41] it's difficult

[2:51:42] for staff currently to get staff reports every two weeks, but it seems to me what happened

[2:51:49] on any of these items is, because I actually acquired the staff and they would say, this is

[2:51:54] you want, here's what it's going to cost, and then we'll say, oh, we want it over. We don't.

[2:51:58] You see what I mean? So, I was throwing it out there as an idea, but the meetings are actually

[2:52:02] going okay. I was trying to shorten the time. And we're not getting back. Yeah. So, this is a tangent

[2:52:11] to that. Yeah. Which would be on tonight's close session went very well. We've had others

[2:52:21] where we just couldn't get to all the topics.

[2:52:24] My suggestion would be that on nights where we have closed session,

[2:52:30] we start the city council meeting,

[2:52:35] and we do the closed session after.

[2:52:38] And then we have more flexibility to decide

[2:52:42] to address everything that's on the closed session.

[2:52:46] It's just a thought.

[2:52:52] So 9K and actually 9D,

[2:53:02] I think that,

[2:53:06] so we've got an issue with the Mac, operates and

[2:53:10] really doesn't, yeah, Ohio is not represented on the Mac, and we also hear people say

[2:53:18] from the unincorporated area, we expect you to address our concerns.

[2:53:26] One of the, as opposed to the valley-wide advising council, maybe we should be more formalized

[2:53:37] with both the school district and the Mac with the idea that we have a late liaison from

[2:53:45] the city council.

[2:53:46] And they have one with us and that we, you know, and that we do formal reporting back on those issues when they, when the effect city.

[2:54:05] I can just just an alternative to get the intention on K, for example, the simple

[2:54:12] mistake.

[2:54:13] Because I people who are on the market pull me a lot of those, or issues are centered around

[2:54:17] land use.

[2:54:19] I was, you know, we have a person that's situated that I do want to hear from both of you.

[2:54:27] See, it's just not in a binding way, but if, like, the way that you don't have a

[2:54:33] start at traffic times. That's great feedback. He said, oh, the concerts are fine. Just don't

[2:54:38] start them at five o'clock. That's great. That kind of notion. Hearing from upper Ohio,

[2:54:43] the way to exceed the springs. And on number two, I think we're already actually beginning this

[2:54:47] where we've already kind of, you guys have had in the past, but we have it now that we'll start talking

[2:54:53] about the pool, that's already kind of in the works that we have to go.

[2:54:58] Right?

[2:55:01] So, I mean, all these are, I mean, all the ones that you see in red are really just ideas to it.

[2:55:15] I'm definitely interested in hearing.

[2:55:19] What kind of costs?

[2:55:22] The mission is about to work.

[2:55:23] Yeah, and this is actually your idea.

[2:55:27] I heard it last year.

[2:55:28] You proposed small ideas for small stipend and I thought, oh, that would be a wonderful thing that you can get somebody who maybe works evenings to say, oh, I don't have to work this evening and serve on a commission.

[2:55:38] maybe you have a younger person now serving who couldn't be for it. And if it's modest,

[2:55:43] think it could open it up.

[2:55:49] Again, just an idea that we could look at the call.

[2:56:01] Do you have a call?

[2:56:01] No, no, no, no, no.

[2:56:05] I just had one more.

[2:56:07] No, you're still.

[2:56:09] I actually liked Bill and Miley's suggestion about the annual report.

[2:56:16] I mean, I know we're already doing the outlooks, but perhaps we could do one.

[2:56:20] That was a good idea.

[2:56:21] I like

[2:56:31] that's plenty.

[2:56:32] Yeah, that's plenty.

[2:56:33] I do think, I mean, we've gone back to the voters a couple of times,

[2:56:41] but researching

[2:56:42] again, the, you know, at Measure M, at the at large voting and seeing a friend choice voting

[2:56:48] has moved, if it's moved, the needle at all on, you know, district voting, I don't know.

[2:56:57] This would be, this is, to me, a great example of bringing up, okay, and going to our legal staff and

[2:57:06] saying spend not more than an hour or two asking, what would it cost if we wanted to enact this, what are we looking at,

[2:57:12] dollar-wise? Because we, it did get approved, but that doesn't mean we should do it and say,

[2:57:16] what is it going to cost and then they come back and say, here's what we found and that would be a great example to say,

[2:57:20] do we want to do it or not? In other words, pursue it and maybe the answer is going to be no it will cost too much or whatever.

[2:57:26] Well, it's also a legal question.

[2:57:29] Yeah. Fair enough. So it's probably, it might be a 10 hour legal assignment to come back to us.

[2:57:36] Does that's, do you want this?

[2:57:37] So many hours.

[2:57:38] Right. Well, I don't, so the hard it is.

[2:57:42] The, the hard of this one is there's, there's three issues.

[2:57:45] One is the cost, the county, which are just to do this.

[2:57:48] Yeah.

[2:57:48] We can get an estimate from the council county.

[2:57:51] Is that something we're willing to pay to?

[2:57:53] There are a whole bunch of legal problems with implementing it directly, which we disclosed on the staff report in the voter approval materials, and

[2:58:00] We could nothing's really changed on that. The law hasn't moved forward in a way that's useful to us since we last since the voters approved this

[2:58:08] But we could certainly give you a

[2:58:11] In an hour we could develop a cost estimate of what is it going to cost to litigate that if somebody sees us in this angle or somebody sees us in that angle and then the third issue is

[2:58:20] Does it get us out of the CVA put an hour thought of that?

[2:58:23] a pretty surprise estimate on county charges litigation cost litigation risk quick answer

[2:58:30] and then decide if you want the defense or on litigation for all of us asking for the

[2:58:33] quick answer yeah that's easy to do on quick component and then of course the complete

[2:58:40] detailed comprehensive litigation risk assessment building what we did before yeah there's

[2:58:44] a price drive for that is that a price type we want to pay we can include an estimate for that

[2:58:47] and then the biggest component of this puzzle is one legal challenges and two

[2:58:52] county will not do this cheaply and so that that cost assessment is likely to be quite

[2:58:58] substantial for our preliminary word we're hearing from them and so that's the

[2:59:03] other thing where you know it's a bunch of money components to decide whether

[2:59:08] that's something we want to do or not. So yeah here if the council directs us sure

[2:59:12] we put together that quick equipment and then that's the basis to decide is this a

[2:59:21] It's trying to respond to the will of the voters even if the answer is it's not proved into do it right now if that's the answer

[2:59:28] I but we were responsive to the vote

[2:59:31] Right,

[2:59:33] but right now we're kind of at least me I'm blind to say what's it really going to cost and what is it exposed us to?

[2:59:39] That's all speculation that my part till we hear the provision is

[2:59:44] Do it when it's safe?

[2:59:47] Possibly so no, I mean, I think if that's actually in the length doesn't say oh

[2:59:52] range to rank choice voting. It says when the council

[2:59:55] wins, it's feasible. Yeah. Yeah, we use feasible as catch all for

[3:00:00] Both financially feasible, legally feasible, and the council decides that it's feasible. Of course. And that's, I'm glad it's there, because we can decide if it's feasible.

[3:00:09] Yeah, the voters gave the council the option. And that's, I'm thankful.

[3:00:14] But I would like to respond to the will of the voters. Of course, as we all think.

[3:00:17] Yeah, and we should be checking in every now and again, maybe nothing, nothing, nothing changed, and we are where we are.

[3:00:23] Um, um, why would it be, uh, and this is sort of tangential, but I'm just curious, why would the

[3:00:30] county charges more than they would for any other, you know, it's the software issue. So the

[3:00:38] county does not currently have software that runs a ranked choice voting ballot. Okay, because

[3:00:43] all the ranked choice voting that happens in California is in Alameda County and in San Francisco,

[3:00:49] city in county. Right. There is and maybe one other.

[3:00:52] Senator Paula has has ranked choice and I think doesn't.

[3:00:56] That's needs to be the county hadn't told me that they have ranked choice voting.

[3:00:59] Okay. I'll double check that.

[3:01:01] And I believe the more does, too.

[3:01:05] For council elections?

[3:01:07] I mean, I've reached out.

[3:01:10] I know I followed Senator Paula's a couple of it.

[3:01:12] They have at large seats, but I don't believe that they have ranked choice voting.

[3:01:17] We would double take that, but what we were hearing from the county is that we are the first one to take care of it and thus they're going to charge us the full price of that software.

[3:01:25] And I could be I could be wrong.

[3:01:27] I could be mistaken, but that's that was my.

[3:01:31] We'll double take that.

[3:01:32] So, and can't say the question comes from a rule.

[3:01:34] The county is told us that if we have to buy special software to run only O high elections, you're paying the full price.

[3:01:39] Yeah, I didn't realize it was for the software offering choice voting.

[3:01:42] Yeah.

[3:01:42] It was for, you know, ballot stuff.

[3:01:45] And it was like, well, okay, a ballot paper is expensive, not that expensive, it's a software component.

[3:01:50] But we'll double check that if I hadn't heard the Santa Paula.

[3:01:52] My intention was it was only so far, Oakland San Francisco, and maybe one or two others.

[3:01:59] But yeah, we'll double check that for sure.

[3:02:02] And that's part of it is if we, if the council moves it forward, then yeah, we will ground truth the numbers the county is giving us to give the council a pretty good estimate of what it would cost.

[3:02:12] And I do like 9-H, but I'm thinking the bi-monthly town halls to hear from the community, perhaps, you know, there's ways to think about that as one council member will host or two council members will host and on an issue that they are particularly concerned with and it just becomes sort of formalized.

[3:02:32] So we're not throwing this, you know, throwing this out this town hall on this particular topic and no one really knew about it.

[3:02:38] but for the bigger topics coming up,

[3:02:41] we can have revolving council members take on hosting a town hall.

[3:02:46] I think that would be, that'd be really fun.

[3:02:51] So I'm thinking, you know, we can think about the ways

[3:02:54] that that might manifest itself.

[3:02:56] Love it.

[3:02:57] And no point of having a town hall,

[3:02:59] there's not a reason, right?

[3:03:00] Not just to be performative, so things that are pressing

[3:03:03] and that we want to share this information about.

[3:03:06] and I love the idea of multiple hosts.

[3:03:08] Yeah, people are, you know,

[3:03:09] come with your complaints.

[3:03:10] This one is, you know, we're going to listen to them all.

[3:03:14] Yeah, you know, I mean, we feel like we have enough for now.

[3:03:18] Yeah, I just have one more for the financial stability.

[3:03:21] Yes, OK.

[3:03:22] And that is one cost saving measure that we might consider

[3:03:26] is not having binders, but having digitizing our council materials.

[3:03:33] So we have asked Mr. Haunt to look at bringing forward a proposal and Mr. Montgomery's not

[3:03:42] because head on the iPads, if you will. However, dinosaurs like me will probably still

[3:03:50] ask for the binder, sorry. I can't do it.

[3:03:55] Okay. Sorry. From the clerksy here, we're going to have options for any opinion on that subject. So, yes, we put in a budget for a screen.

[3:04:06] That's for a nice like a dice. And then there is a feature of the grandkids software where you will have access to your to your packets.

[3:04:17] Right. If you don't want to binder, you can stop.

[3:04:18] It's just a gender management software, so you'll just be going into the agenda.

[3:04:23] What it's not going to allow you to do for brown egg purposes is you can't be surfing

[3:04:29] the internet because we don't want you to be talking about something that nobody else knows

[3:04:33] what you're talking about.

[3:04:38] Yeah.

[3:04:38] I think that an item to take would be scheduling a workshop day where we can work on this.

[3:04:47] Yes, so what is the council's, you want, you want us to pull you for a date in June, maybe?

[3:04:54] This might come raise that something you could take on to pull the council to find a date.

[3:04:58] Yes.

[3:04:58] I will reach out tomorrow.

[3:05:00] Okay, for pulling the council.

[3:05:03] And possibly a, what was today? Tuesday, Tuesday.

[3:05:08] Do you want to do a Saturday?

[3:05:09] We were considering a possible Saturday.

[3:05:11] That's fine.

[3:05:12] Just in the quick conversation.

[3:05:14] Yeah, my, my, my, my was a four hour Saturday.

[3:05:17] Sounds good.

[3:05:17] Okay.

[3:05:18] Expect the communication from the clerk's office tomorrow.

[3:05:26] Okay.

[3:05:27] We might just, I'm already guessing you might be June July, but we'll

[3:05:31] We'll find out what's available.

[3:05:32] Okay.

[3:05:34] Thank you.

[3:05:36] Okay.

[3:05:37] Great.

[3:05:37] Thank you.

[3:05:38] Yeah.

[3:05:38] Wow.

[3:05:39] Fun.

[3:05:40] Okay.

[3:05:41] Concept Review City Council Protocols.

[3:05:46] This is a concept review.

[3:05:47] Yeah.

[3:05:48] So it's item for concept review City Council Protocols.

[3:05:52] And this isn't that you turn to Anderson is coming in.

[3:05:55] I'm going to detail, but I'll start it actually coming over.

[3:05:58] So the gist of it is we had a draft.

[3:06:00] It was on the agenda.

[3:06:02] One or two meetings ago.

[3:06:04] Got a lot of comments from both the community and

[3:06:05] council that made it clear that we weren't ready to finalize anything that meeting.

[3:06:12] Hence it was continued. We got sort of comments coming from council members after that meeting

[3:06:18] that were wildly different directions and we can't make a decision not in public. So we put it here

[3:06:23] as policy choices, policy options. We asked the council for your policy direction on the policy

[3:06:29] choices inherent here. Very big picture options are take no changes and we continue to

[3:06:35] on the present protocols with the adjustment regarding any special meeting may only be

[3:06:40] called by the mayor or three council members. We revised the protocols as desired and there's

[3:06:46] a number of choices within that. Mindful of the hour and the prior commentary you certainly

[3:06:52] could set an ad hoc committee to look at this and have an ad hoc committee put a parent's

[3:06:56] recommendation and bring that back to council and we're open for its policy choice. We can no

[3:07:06] I was waiting for the vote, and then it was like, oh, no, it didn't happen.

[3:07:14] My apologies.

[3:07:16] We're available for questions.

[3:07:18] If you have any, I would say that there are four broad categories that we've included here.

[3:07:24] So clarifying the law, special meetings is Matt mentioned.

[3:07:27] We do recommend the one changed what the explicit language in the protocols of who can call

[3:07:32] special meeting right now. It just references the Brown Act. The second category is when closed

[3:07:39] sessions may be scheduled. So before or after council meetings right now it is flexible.

[3:07:47] Whenever the council is available, so there's an option to limit it to only council days unless

[3:07:53] the majority of the council directs otherwise. And then we've provided a menu of policies to enhance

[3:08:01] transparency of closed sessions and then finally, whether or not to record the audio of or

[3:08:07] have an audio recording of closed sessions, happy to answer any questions you may have.

[3:08:16] I appreciate the options. It was interesting to think about all of the possibilities and

[3:08:22] think about the goal generally. It seemed to me to be as transparent as we can be and to be as effective

[3:08:28] as we can be and trying to find the right balance between

[3:08:34] us.

[3:08:35] OK, so I do have a question.

[3:08:38] And it seems as if the requirement that a majority

[3:08:49] recounts some authority is needed to set a special session

[3:08:55] and a close session.

[3:08:57] Yeah, the call is special meeting.

[3:08:59] Okay, a call, but call special meeting,

[3:09:03] you can't so buy necessity, it could never be called unless it was the end result of the city of city council meeting where they're saying, okay, we need to set at the end of some calendar set because otherwise you've got to be talking

[3:09:30] amongst three council people in order to do that. Well, there is the chicken and egg problem

[3:09:37] with the way that the Brown Act is written, right? One of the options in the policy is to

[3:09:44] have a majority call for the meetings in open sessions, so there is transparency surrounding it.

[3:09:52] You could also treat it as a motion where you know the subject of what it is and you're willing to

[3:10:00] All right. So have a close session on threatened litigation regarding the subject. Do you support having the close session? Yes or no? That's the end of the information that you would receive about that subject.

[3:10:14] I have a question. A close session does not require.

[3:10:18] It's a special meeting.

[3:10:18] So a special meeting does can be an open special meeting.

[3:10:22] It doesn't have to be a closed special meeting.

[3:10:24] So what is required by law is three council members of majority of the legislative body,

[3:10:30] which in our cases, three council members, or the mayor to call a special,

[3:10:36] but not a closed session.

[3:10:38] So the closed sessions are all scheduled as special meetings because your regular meeting time

[3:10:44] is 6 p.m. on Tuesday.

[3:10:46] So, if you were to move your meeting time to earlier and include closed sessions, you would not need,

[3:10:53] you would not need to call a special meeting.

[3:10:57] We could, we could agendize it automatically as one meeting.

[3:11:01] Now they're agendized separately.

[3:11:03] Right.

[3:11:03] Because they're agendized separately and earlier than six o'clock, it is under the law, a special meeting.

[3:11:10] Right.

[3:11:10] Because it's not at the same time as our regular meeting.

[3:11:14] So it doesn't, it's not that the closed session requires that it's if the closed session is not during a regular meeting, then it is required because then it becomes a special session.

[3:11:27] Correct. Okay. The way things are set up right now is automatically special.

[3:11:32] Right. Exactly.

[3:11:32] But you could change the way that that's structured.

[3:11:35] Right.

[3:11:35] I would recommend changing your meeting time to allow for that time, just I mean, it's already late in the evening and just to put one for the point on that.

[3:11:46] If under the present system, present protocols, two council members and only two wish to call us close session, they could make that request as an agenda item on a regular meeting, which means six o'clock or later.

[3:11:59] But I will note that if two and only two wished that close session to occur, say on, you know,

[3:12:05] threat of litigation, we look for it. And the three opposed, they simply do not approve that agenda,

[3:12:12] to approve of the agenda and the close session disappears. So in the end, there's always must be three

[3:12:16] votes for every close session because the three must approve the agenda.

[3:12:20] Right. And that cuts off some of the, I mean, it puts more transparency. Yeah, it puts more transparency to it because that is actually done in open session correct.

[3:12:36] Yes. So, so it would need because.

[3:12:39] Okay. So, yeah, I understand that.

[3:12:42] And part of the this is we flipped back and forth over the years with having close sessions before or after the meeting.

[3:12:47] It never mattered unless we were fighting about it.

[3:12:51] But the before the meeting is as noted as a special meeting.

[3:12:54] Right after the meeting is just a continuation of the regular meeting.

[3:12:57] Right, we could as was discussed earlier redefine regular meeting because we control what is a regular meeting.

[3:13:02] We, the council defined that as regular meeting is a five of close session or six of no close session.

[3:13:08] And then close sessions on that day would be a regular close session. Right, and then the counselor couldn't allow to or require three as decided

[3:13:15] Okay, and then always the mayor can call a special meeting. Right got it. I think the main concern I thought we were trying to address with this was

[3:13:23] Calling a special meeting close or not by two council members on a non-toothed day. Right. That's what we're trying to adopt this part of the rest well. Yeah, but

[3:13:34] It dealt deeper because of the need to have a close session be a special meeting if you didn't have it already in regular time.

[3:13:42] So that's what I mean about, you know, the more you dig, it's a little bit deeper.

[3:13:48] And, you know, we can we can talk more about this, but I also think it's very important that who's calling the special meeting.

[3:13:55] like we have never known for the time that I've started till recently, we've never known

[3:14:01] who called a special meeting or who called a close session. That's never been notified

[3:14:07] not for the council or for the public, right? It's always been this mystery. So I think,

[3:14:15] you know, it's Tuesdays on the regular Tuesdays. You mean, yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, you know,

[3:14:19] you're right. The agenda does not say who is who is the member or members that have all

[3:14:24] that could be something that you had it as a transparency measure.

[3:14:28] I think it's very important.

[3:14:31] You know, I think people need to take ownership of the meetings that they're calling

[3:14:34] and why they should be able to speak to why they feel it's necessary to do that.

[3:14:43] And I think I asked it when meeting called this because I never know.

[3:14:47] I never know who called it.

[3:14:48] There's a kind of a defacto thing which is I look at Mr. Montgomery's working agenda and there have been times in meetings where I'll say, oh, this seems premature or let's move it back and then that changes there.

[3:15:00] So I'm taking that preliminary work that then manifest into the agenda as their soliciting feedback

[3:15:07] for me before it goes there, not Friday night or prior to it.

[3:15:13] That's as the chair of the commission, right?

[3:15:16] I should, I mean, the council, right, and the presiding officer.

[3:15:19] Yeah, that's correct.

[3:15:20] Right.

[3:15:21] But it doesn't have my name on it.

[3:15:23] Right, it doesn't have your name on it.

[3:15:24] We don't know that you've made that adjustments.

[3:15:27] It's a mystery.

[3:15:28] Well, and I hope, you know, my interest is actually not to do that. I'm basically going off the work in a general almost

[3:15:36] For beta, exactly in that way is not bringing up your things, because I do want support.

[3:15:41] Right. No, and I totally understand that. And to me, working agenda is it's a living documents or things come in they go, but I never know why they come where they go.

[3:15:50] So the other thing too is if you change the structure of what is a regular meeting

[3:15:55] you it would there wouldn't be the need for that right items would just come and go

[3:16:02] onto the agenda for closed session or regular session the only time that we would have the issue

[3:16:08] of who is calling the meeting is if it would be off schedule from from any from what is it the

[3:16:15] second and fourth Tuesday right so but but even so I still want to know who's calling a special

[3:16:21] who's calling a closed session.

[3:16:24] So my understanding, you know, functionally is

[3:16:30] of the city attorney as the only one who's saying

[3:16:32] whether there was a closed session.

[3:16:35] And that's dependent on the contact, the content

[3:16:38] of what's going to be discussed.

[3:16:40] If you're going to, there's a very general proposition.

[3:16:44] You're going to receive information about, you know,

[3:16:47] legal opinions that relate to the,

[3:16:51] types of legal opinions that are in the Brown Act as a

[3:16:55] possession. The city attorney makes that decision

[3:17:00] and a personnel issue as well, but it's a city attorney is deciding this is a closed session item or not.

[3:17:07] So we're able to be able to be able to. It's a recommendation. I don't have the power to do it all

[3:17:11] by myself of course. Well, I hear what you're saying, the council member of the city attorney is the one

[3:17:17] who's vetting whether or not it can be in closed session and the agenda description of

[3:17:23] whatever the proposed item is. So my thought is that our protocol should be that the mayor

[3:17:32] himself can put a matter on the agenda and that two council people can put something on the agenda.

[3:17:42] But whether it goes to close session, I mean I'm fine with a protocol that says a city council member

[3:17:48] cannot dictate whether something's going to close session or not.

[3:17:53] That should be a decision made by our attorney and what we talk about in that session

[3:18:01] and whether it goes beyond should be something that the attorney manages and

[3:18:07] you know, officiates that we don't go beyond what the notice.

[3:18:12] But he's saying himself, he can't decide, say he can recommend.

[3:18:16] I do think that you're making an ex.

[3:18:18] I do think you're making an ex-lampoint though.

[3:18:20] So this idea of shifting to a model

[3:18:23] where co-session is a regular meeting,

[3:18:25] we could shift to a model if that's now not a special meeting.

[3:18:29] Two council members could request items be added

[3:18:33] to a co-session agenda if we shifted to a model

[3:18:36] where a co-session is a regular meeting

[3:18:38] that we cancel or not.

[3:18:39] And I mean, you can always, you know, the two council members make, you know, make the request the city attorney weighs in on whether or not that request fits under the exemptions and then the city attorney I believe should have to come back to the council and defend that decision as to whether or not it is.

[3:19:04] So the city council can actually, without going into close, I mean, it's tricky to go into close

[3:19:11] session, but the city council, I think, should have an opportunity at every close session

[3:19:20] to evaluate whether or not this meets the threshold for what we want to do as transparency,

[3:19:30] not for, you know, I just want the final, the final, the final, that's inherent in the

[3:19:40] council of approval of the agenda. But it isn't, it isn't because we have to actually

[3:19:47] discuss it. Like when we see that, we don't know one way or the other how this decision was made,

[3:19:55] whether or not indeed, I mean, you know, we need more...

[3:20:00] Or information than just to say, well, we approved it, so yeah, we knew what we were doing. Because honestly, there have been instances where we have approved closed sessions and we did not know what we were doing.

[3:20:13] We didn't know what we were doing.

[3:20:15] You're saying, if I hear you right, we can't decide whether this is closed session where the until we go into the closed session. Here's some of the details of that.

[3:20:24] creative of a challenge. Is that what you're thinking? Yeah, and I would like it to be an overt

[3:20:31] discussion on on on each time we vote whether or not this is close session. Um, worthy.

[3:20:39] So that's tricky. So it is very tricky. Um, and I'm actively thinking on how to get to a space

[3:20:47] where we can accomplish what you're talking about. I think it goes back to the chicken and the egg

[3:20:53] problem with close session of there are things and threats and personal issues right that we would

[3:21:02] would not want to have in an open session. I think I wonder if there's space to have a process

[3:21:09] where there's a preliminary, I mean it would make close session a lot longer right a preliminary

[3:21:14] discussion before the agenda is approved. Well, what I'm not actually even talking about having to

[3:21:20] have an open session where this discussion happens.

[3:21:24] What I'm trying to do is put up a barrier

[3:21:28] that we need to agree to jump over.

[3:21:32] And that can be in closed session.

[3:21:33] Well, I think you could have a briefing.

[3:21:35] Let me see if I have a question.

[3:21:36] So I have a question.

[3:21:38] So we all meet with the City Manager sometimes

[3:21:43] the City Attorney before meetings to go over the topics

[3:21:49] that we're talking about. I mean, wouldn't this fit into that? Like, couldn't you talk to

[3:21:57] our city, or couldn't any one of us talk to our city manager or city attorney and say,

[3:22:01] what is this really about? And without giving any kind of policy directives, we could get the

[3:22:06] information in the facts. And then come that cup, make that, make that announcement when we talk

[3:22:13] about approving the agenda. And then you could choose to approve the agenda. We could also get

[3:22:18] have it of any time there's a closed session. I'm happy or Matt's happy to brief all of you on what

[3:22:25] we're going into closed session and give you that transparency and information ahead of time.

[3:22:31] You know, usually we don't have, sometimes there's emergency ones that get thrown on the last minute,

[3:22:36] but there's usually enough space and time. It's not a problem to call each of you and talk you through

[3:22:41] what's happening and to make you feel comfortable of why we're going into...

[3:22:46] Isn't that a very bad idea?

[3:22:48] No. No, it isn't. Hold on. Hold on.

[3:22:51] Mr. Stark with it.

[3:22:52] If it is an informational session where you are receiving information in a briefing, and there is not an exchange of information to come to a consensus about what the issue is.

[3:23:04] That is acceptable under the Brown Act.

[3:23:06] If I turn to each of you and is like, we're going into closed session today.

[3:23:11] What you're about going to be?

[3:23:12] And really would appreciate your support.

[3:23:16] And I go to each of you, and I do that.

[3:23:18] Or I leverage the votes that I know

[3:23:21] were coming from each of you.

[3:23:22] That is a brown act violation.

[3:23:24] The exchange of information in and of itself

[3:23:27] is completely acceptable.

[3:23:28] It's something the city manager does all the time.

[3:23:31] We do it with you less frequent basis, fortunately,

[3:23:35] than I write.

[3:23:36] But it is something that we are absolutely able to do.

[3:23:39] So then I could add one more point that is two points actually that's under the Roberts

[3:23:45] First of the Palmdale case it's an oral memo we can send a confidential memo to the council five copies of the same memo

[3:23:51] We can do the same thing or lead five copies of the same memo the second piece on this point is if there's a close session where the council is split on whether the

[3:24:00] The matter is a lawful close session or if the council or some portions of the council and myself or city attorney or anybody

[3:24:07] If we're not all in agreement

[3:24:10] Then we can but there is a majority that approves the agenda based on the information provided on the agenda and the discussion that happens is the colloquial open session

[3:24:17] But let's say for example

[3:24:19] We approve the

[3:24:22] The close session to see the cry and

[3:24:24] And

[3:24:24] Then we get into close session, right?

[3:24:26] So a majority probably divided vote, three, two, four, one.

[3:24:29] But still three majority, right, majority controls.

[3:24:31] We walk into close session.

[3:24:33] We could then on those votes have a discussion.

[3:24:35] Here's why in with more information than in public,

[3:24:38] here's why we think this is a lawful close session.

[3:24:40] And then the council could re-vote at that moment

[3:24:42] if it's something flips.

[3:24:44] I disagree, this is not a lawful close session.

[3:24:46] Then great, three votes.

[3:24:48] That way, then we're out.

[3:24:48] We leave and we're done.

[3:24:49] And explain what happened to the public.

[3:24:51] And all in note, if there is still a council member

[3:24:53] who disagrees with the majority decision at that point,

[3:24:55] There are other remedies on the Brown Act, but they may choose at that point.

[3:24:58] So that's the, we could institute.

[3:25:00] That on the closed sessions, and we know which ones it typically will be, where there's that conversation. That could be done as well under existing law, when we get into the room, because as noted, it's tough to.

[3:25:11] The whole point of closed sessions that were allowed to keep certain information within the council, only to protect the city's position to put everything on the table in order to decide whether or not to protect the city's position defeats the point.

[3:25:24] But that's the way that would seem to meet this need, especially on the ones where this were fighting among ourselves.

[3:25:30] Got it. So on that point, since council member role seems open to the idea that we would have a pre-lim to the closed session that is is this.

[3:25:45] I mean, the legal quality, you know, do we support that it meets the quality?

[3:25:50] I assume we're going to have the opinion from the city attorney that it does, but because

[3:25:57] I'm concerned that the more detail that happens in that preliminary conversation with each

[3:26:04] of us creates it out, it's own risk.

[3:26:08] So I would like to see as, I like the idea of a briefing, but I think we should be very cautious

[3:26:16] about how much goes into that and it would be. Once you start talking about why you're

[3:26:23] going into close session, how are you parsing out that you're not? I think it's fine to

[3:26:30] be deliberative. I mean, I, no, I think we need to be deliberative as a council and that

[3:26:35] can happen in close session, but it's not only can we legally do this, but is this

[3:26:41] necessary. Like, it's not just can we legally do this, but do we believe that the going into

[3:26:50] close session balances out the lack of transparency that will inevitably occur because

[3:26:56] of that? And it may be that we don't think so. And you know, we can take the advice from

[3:27:01] the attorney, but we can also deliberate among ourselves as to whether or not this warrants

[3:27:07] level of lack of transparency. It may be that it does. It may be that it doesn't. I don't have a problem deliberating about it.

[3:27:18] But I would like it to be on the agenda. Yeah, I would like it to be a normal thing that we do.

[3:27:24] And it can be just simply yeah, this is litigation we're all in. Or it could be this is, you know, this is litigation, but it doesn't need to be in close session.

[3:27:35] You know, and that's just one aspect of more transparency we've talked about the ability to, you know, the ability to report out more than than is legally required because there's no reason not to.

[3:27:51] It's not going to do anything for us.

[3:27:52] Let me just if I can.

[3:27:53] I think having a part of every close session in the beginning as a check in to say, you know,

[3:27:59] doesn't meet the barrier. And secondly, do we think it's prudent? I think that's a completely great thing to be asked at the beginning of each.

[3:28:07] Yeah. I think it's, yeah. Yeah. I hate to do this. We should maybe do public comment because we are a

[3:28:14] trashed public comment. This is so good. But we're, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I'm so sorry.

[3:28:21] No, that's good. Let's do. Larry Stangold, Bill Miley, and Jeffrey Starkweather.

[3:28:31] Good evening. Thank you for the

[3:28:34] would hope that you do audio recording of the closed session, so that everyone can stay within

[3:28:45] the agenda and not be concerned about them going outside the agenda, even I who tend sometimes

[3:28:54] to use a shotgun instead of a stock shooting rifle would stay within the lines if I'm told that

[3:29:02] you can talk about is the agenda? If you can't stay within the agenda, then you have no business

[3:29:09] doing what you're doing. I mean, you represent us, you represent each other, you represent

[3:29:14] the city, the staff too. If a staff can't stay within the agenda, I'm sorry, then you shouldn't

[3:29:22] be talking. If you have an opinion that shouldn't be said, you're supposed to stay on the agenda.

[3:29:28] Audio record

[3:29:30] There's divisiveness and the cost and the expense that not doing this has cost us

[3:29:36] I can't imagine how much money it's cost probably a million dollars. Maybe more. I don't know

[3:29:41] But everybody is concerned that things shouldn't be said don't be said people call people names

[3:29:47] Whatever it is it doesn't matter. That's not on the agenda stay within the agenda. Just make it easy

[3:29:53] the Sunshine Act in San Francisco.

[3:29:58] They do it.

[3:30:00] And that's supposed to be crazy town in San Francisco. Okay, but they record. Why is it so difficult? They do it. So why can't we do it? Do it as a test? Do it for a year? Have it, have it sunset? Have it reduxed? It's a protocol. Unless you make an ordinance, it's all it is. It can be changed every, every year, every other year, every month, whatever. Protocols change. So please record.

[3:30:29] Thank you, Mr. Tengold. Bill Myley.

[3:30:38] I have checked the Larry's command about San Francisco.

[3:30:42] I was born in San Francisco.

[3:30:48] Okay, the only comment I want to make about protocols

[3:30:51] is the one that has to do with closed sessions

[3:30:54] as they recorded, reported and stored.

[3:30:59] And important in setting a theme for values and mission statements

[3:31:04] is reviewing the closed paragraph, closing paragraph

[3:31:08] of a task of an A, the Iowa City Council Protocol of 518, 2021, which was in the report,

[3:31:19] page 30 of 32.

[3:31:22] And my focus are two phrases, quote, best served the public and quote, and effectively

[3:31:32] serve the people of Ohio. And this is the quote in closing as stated at the beginning

[3:31:39] of this document. These protocols establish policies and provisions to help the Council

[3:31:45] conduct its business and best serve the public. This is a living document. Should the needs

[3:31:51] of the Council change, it should not hesitate to update the protocols. So the right tools are always

[3:31:57] at hand for the council to guide the city and effectively serve the people of the Ohio.

[3:32:06] So I choose to choose to judge the two forms for closed sessions recording as less

[3:32:12] than adequate.

[3:32:13] The past public issues have been which have been exposed from closed sessions in my opinion

[3:32:19] of shown down and they violated the Brown Act on a make sure I get it here.

[3:32:26] Okay. And so, what was the evidence?

[3:32:31] quote, he said, she said, I said, you said nothing solid from all the stakeholders involved.

[3:32:39] Nothing more than remembered words, phrases, statements, and opinions less than acceptable

[3:32:46] in my world. Whoa, says the administrative memo as I interpreted. The council members

[3:32:53] they want the freedom to say whatever they feel, and know that they will never be officially

[3:32:58] quoted.

[3:33:00] In my opinion, this is not what I want elected officials to behave like.

[3:33:05] In personal business, they want to do what you want.

[3:33:08] In debt, public business, including concessions, you, what you say, opine, state, should

[3:33:13] be said like you are yelling at the public, while standing at the corner, a signal and

[3:33:19] I have you. This is what I said when I'm in the politician. You're going to be accountable for your behavior.

[3:33:26] Please start auto-recording your possessions. No more say thanks short statements.

[3:33:33] Practice accountability. Thank you.

[3:33:37] Thank you, Mr. Miley. Jeffrey, start weather.

[3:33:43] I definitely agree that we need to record our close sessions.

[3:33:48] For a number of reasons, it does tend to put a certain amount of pressure on the city council members to stay on topic and the city attorney.

[3:33:59] And also those records should be available when the litigation is no longer relevant.

[3:34:07] The case is over, you've sued them, or you dropped the lawsuit, it should become public records, I think.

[3:34:13] And also the DA should be able to get access to them if the city council member or public files a complaint about a violation of the Brown Act.

[3:34:23] They should be able to get access to those to review it.

[3:34:25] And also, if you think about a Brown Act lawsuit, we almost came close to having one.

[3:34:33] When you don't have any record, you're meeting.

[3:34:35] Just think how much that would cost.

[3:34:38] Every single one of you would have to be the post.

[3:34:40] I used to be a lawyer. I did civil litigation. You're talking about $20,000 or something.

[3:34:46] So it would save everybody cost to have that record.

[3:34:53] I think that to the extent that you could have it in one meeting, I think that would be better.

[3:35:00] And I think that should be at the end of the meeting, because number one, it would be in Senate for everybody to talk, you know, not extend these meetings out.

[3:35:09] And third, you know, the citizens shouldn't have to be the ones that stay up late, because you guys started early or start late, that should be you.

[3:35:20] So it's going to have these closed session. Maybe in addition to setting the have up.

[3:35:24] I agree very strongly that it's not the attorney who decides where you have a closed session on litigation.

[3:35:32] He advises you and you can make a decision because there's not a single litigation that you couldn't if you wanted to hold in the open.

[3:35:44] It's up to you. It's whether you're risking the city's stake.

[3:35:48] And I have a real problem when you go into close session to get advice about public policy.

[3:35:55] You're about ready to act.

[3:35:57] You might be friends too about that.

[3:35:59] That should be done in the public because we the public are the ones who are asking you to pass the policy.

[3:36:07] We're the ones that will have to pay for that litigation.

[3:36:11] I would also add that you didn't cover one big area, which has been one of the biggest issues.

[3:36:17] is adding things onto the agenda.

[3:36:22] I think you should have to have a majority vote.

[3:36:25] I think the best way to do it would be at the end of each meeting.

[3:36:28] Have a discussion.

[3:36:30] Does any member want to add things to the agenda?

[3:36:33] And then you could vote as a group where you're going to do that.

[3:36:37] And I think as far as I'm of our way to be done,

[3:36:41] close meetings and special meetings,

[3:36:43] I think you should have to be a majority.

[3:36:47] Thank you, Mr. Fengel.

[3:36:49] Mr. Montgomery, anything online?

[3:36:51] Yes, Mayor.

[3:36:53] We have two raised hands.

[3:36:54] Oh, did I say Mr. Stangol?

[3:36:55] I'm in Mr. Stark weather.

[3:36:57] Sorry about that.

[3:36:59] Oh, great.

[3:37:00] Thanks.

[3:37:03] Yes, Mayor.

[3:37:03] We have two raised hands.

[3:37:04] First, we'll have our elected city clerk Steve Quilissie,

[3:37:07] followed by John Drucker.

[3:37:08] Thank you.

[3:37:09] Mr. City Clerk, you have the floor.

[3:37:13] Thank you.

[3:37:16] I want to agree on just one,

[3:37:19] narrow point of this discussion. And that is about scheduling a closed session during an open

[3:37:29] meeting. I'm a member of the Board of the Ohio Valley Sanitary District. And we always have our

[3:37:38] closed sessions as a separate agenda item in an open meeting. We close obviously during the closed

[3:37:49] But it's always there, it's always available to the public, 72 hours ahead of the meeting.

[3:37:57] They know there's a closed session coming, and the description that is in the agenda

[3:38:03] complies with the Brown Act.

[3:38:08] We typically, wherever the agenda happened, the agenda item happened to fall,

[3:38:13] we typically move it to the end

[3:38:15] So that all of the public's business is covered before we go into closed session.

[3:38:23] And of course, then we report out any reportable action just as required by the Brown Act.

[3:38:30] But it works very well for us.

[3:38:33] To do with that way, the public gets more notice about closed sessions.

[3:38:40] And they get all the same notice that they would get if you call it a special meeting for a closed session.

[3:38:49] So I hope you will go that way and put your closed sessions in your open meeting agendas and put them at the end.

[3:38:59] Several others have suggested that I agree and I can tell you that it works very well that way.

[3:39:07] Thank you for your time.

[3:39:08] Thank you, Mr. Coolsey. Next we have John Drucker followed by Renee. John, you have the floor.

[3:39:18] Mr. Drucker, you have the ability to unmute.

[3:39:25] Mr. Drucker, I'll give you one more opportunity. I'm giving you the option to unmute one more time.

[3:39:30] Yeah, there we go. Okay.

[3:39:33] Can you hear me now? Yes. Thank you.

[3:39:36] Okay. Good evening, everyone.

[3:39:39] I think what, first of all, I guess I'm not sure all of you are aware of it, but I sent in quite an extensive commentary on these protocols, which I hope you read if not already after this meeting.

[3:39:55] But generally, I think what we have here is...

[3:40:00] You know, a city attorney who reads the Brown Act in the broadest sense of allowing and almost mandating

[3:40:11] the least information you put forth to the public. And you know, that's okay by him. And then, of course, you have this council attitude that it's solely the city attorney's decision, whether to have a closed session, which is absolutely wrong.

[3:40:30] So in that regard, I would just steer the council to Justice Louis Brandeis, read the statute, read the statute, read the statute.

[3:40:40] If it's one page of text, you can all read it quite competently.

[3:40:44] Five four government code, five four nine five six point nine D, and sections two is a point, you know, you can have a closed session.

[3:40:57] at, quote, a point has been reached where, in the opinion of the legislative body of the

[3:41:02] local agency, on the advice of its local council, based on existing facts and circumstances,

[3:41:09] there is a significant exposure to litigation. Now, the main point here, I would stress, is that

[3:41:17] you are constantly at you and the entire general public is kept in the dark regarding the existing

[3:41:25] facts and circumstances that are supposedly posing the risk of litigation. This needs

[3:41:35] to be addressed and it needs to be more fully informed because ultimately it is your

[3:41:44] decision, the council's decision whether to have a close session or not, and the bottom line

[3:41:52] As someone pointed out earlier, whether in open session, concerning those closed session matters would prejudiced the position of the city in the litigation.

[3:42:06] So I would hope that the city council with regard to the whole range of issues really airs on the side of openness rather than closeness, which has been its policy for the past number of years.

[3:42:20] Thank you. Thank you. Next we have Renee. Renee, you have the ability to unmute.

[3:42:28] Hello.

[3:42:35] I was strongly moved by Judge Coats in his decision when he talks about the Brown Act.

[3:42:46] And it states in the Judge Coats decision, the Brown Act exists so that citizens can monitor

[3:42:56] and when appropriate, hold their elected officials accountable for the decisions they make

[3:43:05] on the public's behalf end of quote, that only works when deliberations and decisions are made

[3:43:15] in the open. I urge the council to revise its protocols to prioritize transparency and

[3:43:26] openness and accountability for your decisions to rebuild the public trust.

[3:43:34] Under the Brown Act, we know close sessions must be the exception, not the norm.

[3:43:41] We have three topics for close session today.

[3:43:46] The courts have emphasized that pending litigation must be strictly construed as John

[3:43:54] trucker was saying here. Strictly construed, it applies only when public discussion would truly jeopardize

[3:44:02] the city's legal position. Not simply because it's sensitive, or it's political, or it's inconvenient.

[3:44:11] For example, in matters like indemnification of council members. Unless it is tied to specific

[3:44:18] Active litigation. It should be addressed in open session. These are policy decisions, not legal strategy.

[3:44:29] The Brown Act demands more than just open voting. It requires open deliberation.

[3:44:36] The public deserves to hear the reasoning. The options and the debate that shapes the decisions you are making.

[3:44:43] So, if you want to restore credibility, it must follow, not only the letter but the spirit of the Brown Act.

[3:44:52] So, when in doubt I hope you open the doors, you must be doing this in open session.

[3:44:59] The...

[3:45:00] The other thing is, I think you need to have a separate agenda item for closed sessions. So when the public has to go back and look for closed sessions, they have to look, not at every meeting of every council session, but be able to find closed session agenda items on specific dates in your granica software and I don't know how that's going to be done.

[3:45:25] But I think you have to have a separate closed session agenda separate from your regular meeting.

[3:45:30] I don't care if it's before or after, but it has to be a separately closed agenda meeting.

[3:45:36] The other thing is, I do think you have to record minutes just don't do it.

[3:45:41] Thank you very much.

[3:45:41] Thank you.

[3:45:43] That's all.

[3:45:44] Thank you.

[3:45:47] More discussion, I have to say, so it's 10 to 10 feels like a very big subject.

[3:45:54] And you're the ad hoc committee is interesting what I would not want to do is say let's have an ad hoc committee work on this in detail come back and we still fight about it.

[3:46:05] I know I

[3:46:14] know is a very deep issue and I think that I actually believe sort of deliberation

[3:46:27] which is the hallmark of a city council is very important but I also understand that we've

[3:46:34] got many things on the agenda so I'm not married to an ad hoc committee I'm just saying

[3:46:39] that, you know, could come back with recommendations that could then be, you know, discussed

[3:46:46] or not. It is a very, for me, it is a very, very deep subject. And there's many things we haven't

[3:46:54] talked about that I need clarification on one of them, of course, being, what is a reportable

[3:47:00] action? And how do we view that? Like we, you know, we make decisions. If we don't take a vote,

[3:47:08] were not required, you know, it's like, does anyone, did anyone when they started know that if you

[3:47:13] don't actually take a vote, you don't have to report it out? No, I didn't know that. So hence

[3:47:19] I never called for a vote. It was just everybody nods their head and so guess what, you

[3:47:23] don't have to report anything out. But if you were to take a vote on exactly the same subject,

[3:47:27] you would have to report out what the vote was. But who knew? So there's just so many things

[3:47:33] that I've learned over the last two and a half years of delving into this that I think are really

[3:47:40] important that you don't know what you don't know until you actually have to live it.

[3:47:45] I'm just saying. Yeah, so that's why the ad hoc committee, but I am open to any model

[3:47:50] that would allow that deep dive and a report and a deliberative process. Okay, so Mayor, what are

[3:47:58] proposing because I kind of heard an implication. Well, sounded like that we've got

[3:48:08] multiple hours of discussion and we're already at 10 o'clock. So not tonight. Yeah, so I'm open to any suggestions. Not tonight

[3:48:19] Yeah, so I'm open to suggestions about me too. See

[3:48:24] So I'm thinking it's two council people it's our

[3:48:28] attorney, our city manager. I don't know who else. Maybe it's someone somebody else who's experienced in this also. Somebody from the public. I don't know. I'm open to ideas too.

[3:48:38] For the sake of time would it be better if we did like another meeting like we're going to do with like a workshop work shop or all together, because even if we had an ad on going to bring it back.

[3:48:50] We're going to be that was what I was concerned about so maybe so so a workshop on this subject only by itself with all of us present.

[3:48:58] So, when you say workshop, are you talking about, I think, in my brain, I think, study session,

[3:49:06] where we kind of buck the normal formality of the meeting and it's more informational

[3:49:12] and we're having this open discussion, still public comment.

[3:49:16] But there's more of a free flow of ideas, is that, when you say workshop, is that what you mean,

[3:49:22] or you mean, like, when we do the Brown Act, you want me to come present and do better

[3:49:26] use again. I'm not the former not the latter, but it's it's that there's a lot of

[3:49:31] given take but then it's the only item and it can go along so it could be

[3:49:36] something like three or four hours but it's only on the one subject and it could

[3:49:40] be an action at the end it could be a bow or not but it's it's dedicated and it's

[3:49:46] more conversational so we can I mean I would keep some of the rails on like

[3:49:50] our timer and things like that. I just want to understand what your needs are so

[3:49:55] can be responsive to them.

[3:49:57] Well, I, and here's another idea, when, as I,

[3:50:00] I reach out to other people or other people's experience. Other experiences of city councils that do things like recording or notes or whatever. It'd be great to have that kind of feedback to you because we have from individual people that have worked in other cities like that.

[3:50:16] Hearing some of that feedback would be great. Here's what's great about it. Here's the danger of that.

[3:50:21] And you've laid out some in the protocols here, which is really, which is great.

[3:50:24] And I think, you know, potentially having the input of a first amendment attorney or someone who doesn't take the view that, you know, any information that you put out there is a potential liability, which is a position, but there's also another position.

[3:50:44] And so what do other cities do not only about recording, but what have they found ways to be as transparent and where have they found the guidelines to be?

[3:51:00] Um, well, I, I really like years to just, I think it's a good one.

[3:51:05] Especially if we can all, because we're going to have to live with it.

[3:51:09] So if we can really work on it together and come to some consensus about what we want to live with,

[3:51:14] I think this thing would do that.

[3:51:18] As I also think that we all need to be educated, like we need to know what these things are,

[3:51:24] so that we can make it is ultimately the council's decision.

[3:51:28] And if we don't know what a reportable action is, how can we make a decision on whether or not

[3:51:35] this is a reportable action, I mean, don't know.

[3:51:39] I would say if this is the direction that you want to go, and it's an endeavor that you

[3:51:42] want our office to undertake, we would need to understand the extent of the effort that you

[3:51:48] are thinking from a time perspective, because we are trying to be fiscally conservative

[3:51:55] And what we're talking about is moving in the other direction of that, if I may be free.

[3:52:01] And if I could add to that, please, there's two ways to run a watch so like this.

[3:52:05] We could bring in every expert we can think of.

[3:52:07] I'm thinking already of a gentleman who spoke at the last league conference that was at from the first

[3:52:11] amendment coalition who was a great speaker in the familiar with this.

[3:52:13] He litigates Brown Act cases against cities.

[3:52:16] In fact, him, I'm sure he'd come speak.

[3:52:17] We invite somebody from the FPC.

[3:52:20] We even have our resources.

[3:52:21] We have the council.

[3:52:21] we bring in some members of the public.

[3:52:23] We invite the four or five cities that have really robust

[3:52:26] on China-ordance is like San Francisco,

[3:52:28] which I'll note was written by the voters there.

[3:52:32] That sounds like a big thing.

[3:52:33] And so that's a really big thing.

[3:52:35] That's a choice.

[3:52:36] We can also do something that's,

[3:52:39] because in the end I'll note, in the end it's a policy choice.

[3:52:42] The five of you will have to make,

[3:52:44] or accurately, three of you will have to make,

[3:52:47] and maybe four ideally five.

[3:52:49] In the end, it's your choice.

[3:52:51] You could advocate your power to others, but they won't solve the choice you have to make, so my suggestion will be we could do a workshop that in starts with the medication starts with sort of those of us who live the brown act pretty closely use all of these little watch works, a portable action, you know,

[3:53:09] It's significant exposure litigation.

[3:53:10] These little watchwords.

[3:53:11] Break that out, explain what those mean.

[3:53:14] And then walk through the policy choices,

[3:53:16] and have a workshop, certainly bring the community.

[3:53:18] And I think the workshop format's great.

[3:53:19] We've done that on a number of other things

[3:53:22] where it's much more of a participatory discussion,

[3:53:24] bringing the community and the council together.

[3:53:26] But I would caution that bringing

[3:53:28] in all of these other outlets that experts,

[3:53:30] you're creating a conference.

[3:53:31] And I'm not sure that's within your budget

[3:53:32] as you've expressed to us before.

[3:53:34] I'm happy with what you're proposing.

[3:53:36] And even if it's here, I would happily take.

[3:53:38] I mean, if we had four or three or four hours on what was proposed to.

[3:53:42] Okay.

[3:53:43] I think it's just understanding what your, but I mean, so I just want to make a comment.

[3:53:50] Because there's, there's been a lot of comments about what happened in our close session,

[3:53:57] which nobody should know.

[3:54:02] There's, which question, well, there's the suggestion, there's the suggestion that

[3:54:08] our city attorney acts deliberately to give less information and I, in his defense, I'm

[3:54:19] going to say that he's the one person in this room who's a government attorney and

[3:54:26] government meeting law. And he understands that the attorney client

[3:54:36] privilege, the advice that passes between the attorney and the

[3:54:42] council, that privilege is very important.

[3:54:48] And it has to be

[3:54:49] handled properly by a three person vote. We can disclose anything

[3:54:54] that's in that meeting, but other than that three-person boat, it should...

[3:55:01] If I can stop you just saying because I don't want to I don't want to have a serious conversation about what happens in the past as much as what we need to do going forward because there is a public trust issue.

[3:55:12] I do want to resolve that if we can, I think we can.

[3:55:16] And I think we can get there.

[3:55:18] I agree. And so there's just been brought up another subject.

[3:55:22] What is privileged and confidential if you're brown act if you have not properly if it's an illegal brown

[3:55:29] If it's an illegal close session, what is privileged and confidential that's a very important question

[3:55:33] Well, and so that would I just

[3:55:36] Hold on my instead of digging into the details right we already need to have a workshop

[3:55:41] There's many questions. Okay, but one of my concerns with having a workshop is exactly this. Yeah, is that it's just that we end up

[3:55:50] hitting stalemates and not moving past the past and I think that we have some incredible

[3:56:02] goals and priorities and tactics that we talked about for the last we've talked about

[3:56:08] over four meetings and I think it's important that we update our policy and that we come

[3:56:14] that we come up with some very specific language around special meetings and close sessions.

[3:56:24] But I think what's happening is we're completing two different things.

[3:56:28] We're completing having some specific language about how to call a meeting and having meeting protocols.

[3:56:34] And we're talking about a much bigger picture, which is what is our philosophy in our values around transparency.

[3:56:40] and that's a workshop. This is not a workshop.

[3:56:45] This is another agenda item that maybe we start the night with.

[3:56:49] I agree.

[3:56:49] Have some public comments.

[3:56:52] We have a basis of information here that we can move from.

[3:56:58] And I think we could make a decision on the specific language without having a workshop.

[3:57:06] And then if we wanted to, after the goals and priorities, I mean, could even add this as a tactic,

[3:57:12] looking at our values around transparency, big picture philosophy, like, that could be something

[3:57:20] that we would do later, that's just my thought.

[3:57:25] I generally agree with what you said, and I noticed that I thought when we call the meetings

[3:57:31] would be an easy decision, but then we see how it morphed and overlap into a philosophy of

[3:57:36] closer. So there is some overlap, but I agree with that. I would have made the same comment

[3:57:47] that the first part. It's possible that what we have in front of us for these options could be

[3:57:53] diced up into the ones that are much more administrative and mechanical, and the ones that are much

[3:57:59] or broad policy, maybe even handled in different sessions.

[3:58:06] Yeah, maybe so.

[3:58:07] So are we deciding that we're not going to have a workshop,

[3:58:10] or are we still, and yet go?

[3:58:12] Can I make, I'm going to make one of their proposition.

[3:58:15] And that is that in our close session tonight

[3:58:19] that we reported out on, we talked about,

[3:58:23] and this is not against either one of you.

[3:58:25] But we talked about going back to the drawing board,

[3:58:29] not to the drawing board. I want to be, I'm sorry, we talked about opening up a process

[3:58:36] where we are looking for other, that we are accepting bids for other attorneys. We're not

[3:58:41] looking for other trained, because we, anyway. So, so, so, so, so thank you so much.

[3:58:58] So,

[3:58:59] what do we want in terms of our attorneys in terms of our city attorney? And so I propose that we

[3:59:07] talk about that we have a workshop after that process, because I would imagine that in our

[3:59:14] conversations surrounding that process that we're going to get really clear about what we

[3:59:23] be as a working council, what we want in terms of transparency and our legal representatives.

[3:59:35] So I'm going to propose that we move that we table the workshop in the philosophy discussion

[3:59:43] and then until after that process and that we look at changing some language in an administrative

[3:59:51] of way whatever we can that that uh yep exactly thank you. I'm sorry it's it's really late in my

[4:00:01] Can I, we have for two and a half years been pushing off this workshop? We have from day one said we would have a workshop on transparency, that we would have a workshop on understanding and we are once again saying that there's other things that we need to do and and we're proposing that we pushed this off, you know, months, months down the road.

[4:00:29] I cannot agree with that, it is time for us to have this discussion, and I realize that

[4:00:40] you know, I believe that we can become clear without having to go through the process

[4:00:48] of, you know, interviewing lawyers, which, you know, that checklist didn't even actually

[4:00:55] include transparency or brown act or any of that. There was no specificity in that checklist.

[4:01:05] I will also say that, you know, so I guess, what I'm getting, I was hoping that we actually

[4:01:16] had an agreement to have a workshop to delve into these transparency issues without once again

[4:01:24] pushing it off as we have been talking about this for two and a half years.

[4:01:29] We're still talking.

[4:01:30] I know we're still talking.

[4:01:32] I just kind of the point.

[4:01:33] I just wanted to remind everyone that we have tried to have these

[4:01:38] conversations.

[4:01:39] We had a whole crowd of things.

[4:01:42] And they did not end well.

[4:01:45] They created more contention.

[4:01:49] And so we have addressed this over and over again.

[4:01:53] And I'm not, when I'm talking about delaying the workshop, it's because depending on what happens with that process, there could be some things that come into the light for us in terms of how we want to move forward.

[4:02:12] For example, as we interview people or, you know, as we think about what are our legal team, how they serve us, we could have new insights about how better we could do these things.

[4:02:30] So that's all I'm saying that it might jog our imagination in addressing these things that in a way that is future oriented that isn't so focused on the past and what happened in the past.

[4:02:46] Well, I do think we have to to craft something that goes forward that we can live with.

[4:02:52] It's it's it's a difficult but it's hard to get past the past.

[4:02:55] We haven't been able to do that very well, I've noticed, but I, I've favorite having the workshop, but I'm just going to say even if the workshop was a month out, which is reasonable, that's about not far from the time frame of us go, and you're saying it's going to go out next week, the RFQ so that could be beginning possibly, but I would say though, if not tonight because it's late, we do have to agree on who gets to call meeting, that is still open for us right now.

[4:03:23] Yeah, I think there are, so I would just very briefly,

[4:03:27] I would flip that and say, perhaps with a workshop,

[4:03:31] we become clearer on what we're looking for in an attorney

[4:03:34] as opposed to saying, you know, in talking to an attorney,

[4:03:37] we become clearer on what we want, I mean, I flip that, actually.

[4:03:43] And I would be willing to push it out, I guess a month.

[4:03:48] But, and it's more than just, you know,

[4:03:51] I don't want to argue, but when I hear something that's blatantly false, I don't know

[4:03:57] what to do with that.

[4:03:58] So maybe I will just write it down and park it, and then we can have a period where, excuse

[4:04:04] me, I have deep questions about this particular, you know, I mean, maybe that's what I do.

[4:04:11] But, you know, would you be open to talking offline about your questions and see if we

[4:04:20] us. Yeah, but I also want the rest of the council, because I think it's really important, but what

[4:04:25] I think it would be helpful to understand, at least for me to understand what your perspective

[4:04:31] is, and where your concerns are coming from, so that we can have this conversation in public

[4:04:37] and have it be productive. Yeah, I would be happy to get answers to my questions, you know,

[4:04:43] understanding that all attorneys interpret. You know, I mean, they interpret. That's the nature of it.

[4:04:49] That's why you go to a judge in a turning A says and a turning B says not B and the judge says

[4:04:57] P you're not P you know, so

[4:05:00] It's all and always interpretive, but I would be thrilled to get answers to these questions that

[4:05:09] run in my head, like that I have mentioned, reportable, you know, those things. I would love

[4:05:14] to have a discussion about that. Okay. And then I would have more clarity, and I would be able

[4:05:19] to understand what others were saying and fit it into what I understand. You know, I think we can

[4:05:26] So going space for the workshop, but it sounds like there's a conversation that we can have as a preliminary starting point.

[4:05:36] Or you can have with anyone here.

[4:05:38] What I like to propose just to give in the hour is to not discuss who gets to decide when meetings are called.

[4:05:46] We have a good proposal, but I would and hopefully it wouldn't be a long conversation.

[4:05:50] for next time so that we can finish that unless you really feel up for that right now, but it feels pretty late on that

[4:05:57] No, I feel deflated.

[4:05:59] Yeah, okay, let's, let's, let's-

[4:06:03] I do.

[4:06:04] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[4:06:06] So, I'm just,

[4:06:10] quickly, quickly, the legislature has spent a ton of time.

[4:06:15] It's a ton of F, and they set out rules, and they did that, based upon their understanding,

[4:06:26] they needed to balance transparency.

[4:06:29] And it turned a client privilege, at least as far as the things that we're talking about.

[4:06:34] I agree with everything that Council Member Lang said.

[4:06:41] I do think that there's an opening to potentially deal with that administrative nugget and I think we'd have to remove the big philosophy picture and say so how do we resolve when we have a clear method of moving forward to have the session and I think we can do that.

[4:07:04] I like the idea of doing that at the next meet.

[4:07:07] So that part we'll do at the next meeting and I will say I do believe there is a public

[4:07:13] competition we need to return. I really believe so and that means this philosophy at least

[4:07:19] it part and what gets called it so that's for another time. And I agree I want to say that in my

[4:07:27] proposal to push that back it was not it was not because I don't think that's important. I agree with

[4:07:34] that we do need this and I'm also just aware of the fact that they're that they're that it's almost like not time yet.

[4:07:45] Okay, well, hold on.

[4:07:49] Not okay just yet.

[4:07:50] So we think that you're asking for this item to come back.

[4:07:54] We think that you're asking at your next meeting.

[4:07:58] Only only but you have a huge agenda at your next meeting.

[4:08:01] And then we also think that you're just asking for, I guess, a deliberation of over one A, one B, and two A.

[4:08:10] So who can, yeah, who can really you're asking, is I think who can call the meeting that who can call a special meeting?

[4:08:16] And potentially you and I think you were on to something with the policy of when the closed session meeting was we were having that discussion and then maybe the initial preliminary vote within the closed session.

[4:08:30] before. Right. The process of a check-in and agreement that things can move forward once you adjourn

[4:08:37] to close this. I thought that's where we got we we can write that up. Yeah. Okay. And then I'll make a motion should make a motion.

[4:08:43] Yeah. Make a motion. Yeah. Okay. All right. If you write up what you just said. Yep. Yeah. Then, I think that's. Let's

[4:08:50] We can then enlarge our philosophy discussion because we had one. Yes, yes, so we'll save policy number three and four for

[4:08:59] Work shop. Okay, I got you. So we'll go to draft back. I just don't know if that's going to become at the next meeting as I worry about

[4:09:07] When it's the work shop is basically. So yeah, so here then then what I would say is as long as we agree as a body

[4:09:16] Let's continue to have regular meetings unless there's an emergency

[4:09:20] a true emergency like a fire, then there's not urgency at the moment. Right? We have our meetings

[4:09:27] on the Tuesday. We don't have any other ones unless necessary. Unless we have a emergency that

[4:09:35] a majority of the city council agrees with the fire emergency. If it's three or more, I'm okay with that.

[4:09:41] So if three of you and you're all in agreement that if that happens, Ben can come to you and say,

[4:09:48] Are you okay with having a meeting on the quah?

[4:09:53] Yes or no?

[4:09:54] The majority of the council, that's what I believe the advice that we received was that too.

[4:10:00] A few words and not sufficient but three words correct to hold a special right state law guarantees the right of the mayor or three to call a special meeting. That's fine.

[4:10:08] And inherently in that is the contradiction between how can three call a special meeting but three can't meet and the answer is the three send to request to the manager.

[4:10:15] It says I want to meet on subject.

[4:10:17] Okay.

[4:10:18] Well the mayor and as a practical matter if there is a legitimate emergency it will be run through the mayor and you'll enter.

[4:10:23] But I can't imagine a situation in which there's an emergency, which the mayor disagrees in emergency, but three would agrees in emergency. That doesn't strike me slightly.

[4:10:30] Nope, and also if three wanted something, then I want them to have it.

[4:10:35] So with that, then it collapses back down and the mayor calls the special meeting.

[4:10:38] Okay. So, and are we just for clarification purposes? Are we incorporating closed sessions into the regular meeting so that two council members can add an item to the agenda?

[4:10:50] And that is not a today conversation that is okay. I just want to make sure that I'm clear.

[4:10:56] I think we haven't decided that one. I think that there is a lot of merit to having that discussion.

[4:11:01] Okay.

[4:11:04] But we are.

[4:11:05] Can we meet a little progress?

[4:11:06] We are to adding the pre discussion to close sessions also.

[4:11:12] I take subject.

[4:11:19] We're not.

[4:11:21] Okay.

[4:11:22] How are we getting enough?

[4:11:23] Mr. Harvey.

[4:11:23] I think so. So then are you? Yeah. So then I think anticipating that this is probably not coming back at the next meeting.

[4:11:31] Fine. So we can shoot for the meeting after.

[4:11:36] You can take a vote to give us that direction.

[4:11:38] And then we will figure out scheduling because you, you are going to have a very busy summer with.

[4:11:43] You have two workshops in a hearing.

[4:11:46] Yep. On top of your regular scheduling program.

[4:11:51] Okay.

[4:11:51] Here we go.

[4:11:56] Okay.

[4:11:57] Okay.

[4:11:59] So is a vote needed to, I mean, you guys are bringing something back to us, not next

[4:12:04] me, but the one after so that's the direction and you need a majority vote to take

[4:12:08] that direction.

[4:12:08] If I could get one.

[4:12:10] For good measure.

[4:12:13] I made the motion.

[4:12:13] And I second.

[4:12:15] Mr. Montgomery.

[4:12:16] Roll call.

[4:12:17] Councilmember Whitman.

[4:12:18] Yes.

[4:12:20] May your pro 10 lane.

[4:12:21] Yes.

[4:12:21] Council member May. Yes. Council member rule. Yes. Mayor Gil. Yes. Motion. Okay. Thank you all for your time. Oh wow. Thank you for your patience. Yes. Appreciate it.

[4:12:33] I know you guys. That's true for now. I know we we have a policy nothing after 10. I'm making the assumption that this one is quick.

[4:12:43] Super quick. I think if you guys will indulge in.

[4:12:46] Okay, let's do it. Nice, something to do. We out there here for I know you guys waited

[4:12:51] How many cards do you have on this one? How many what cards? Oh, I have two cards. Oh

[4:12:59] Wait, I'm never heard of these people. I know. Just kidding. I'm Japanese.

[4:13:06] Okay

[4:13:08] So

[4:13:11] Let's do it. So open art is a night market research results

[4:13:15] Thank you. Thank you

[4:13:18] My name is Moora Mackelusso and I am your principal planner and the Community Development Department.

[4:13:25] And we were here on September 24th and planning staff presented at that time to the City Council,

[4:13:32] the background regarding not-for-profit markets and that also included business owner and community concerns associated with these markets.

[4:13:41] And we also presented alternative avenues for you to choose from.

[4:13:47] One was holding a four-profit markets indoors, which is permitted within our

[4:13:52] Sony municipal code.

[4:13:55] Conditional use permits for allowing specific four-profit markets in commercial

[4:14:01] Lesone sites.

[4:14:03] And three opportunities for participation in the existing local events

[4:14:07] organized by the Chamber of Commerce that are already in place.

[4:14:11] The City Council ultimately directed staff to continue upholding the municipal code,

[4:14:16] regarding outdoor events, and also directed staff to research outdoor markets in other cities,

[4:14:24] evening markets.

[4:14:25] So the director and I attended a planning conference session featuring night markets,

[4:14:30] and I've also had the opportunity to interview a couple of event organizers in a couple of different cities,

[4:14:36] And as a department, we've concluded that the City of Ohio offers ample opportunities for local artisans through our Chamber of Commerce.

[4:14:45] Staff has continued to discuss the subject of outdoor not-for-profit markets with the Chamber, and the Chamber supports nine annual not-for-profit outdoor events offering opportunity.

[4:15:00] In the last few days for low-cost booth rentals for individuals to sell their wares, events are allowable through a temporary use permit, subject to the community development department approval.

[4:15:13] And in most recent conversations with the chamber, it was suggested by the chamber, actually, after discussion, that they might want to consider holding two of their events, the one in July and the one in August in the evening, because it's hot at that time.

[4:15:27] And then also just kind of to break it up and do this evening market idea.

[4:15:33] Their markets are included in your packet.

[4:15:36] There's an April 1, which is the Pixie Tangerine Celebration.

[4:15:40] June is the Ohio Lavender Celebration.

[4:15:43] July is Local Musicians.

[4:15:46] August, Puppy Love, through the Humane Society.

[4:15:51] September is an Autumn Festival.

[4:15:53] October is Ohio.

[4:15:54] day. No member is the olive oil celebration. No member downtown lighting ceremony. December is

[4:16:03] Ohio winter holiday celebration. Um, so I hope I'm not talking too fast. No, it's good. But,

[4:16:10] but I'd actually like to conclude now, so it's not just fast, but it's also short. I'd like

[4:16:15] to conclude that city staff and the chamber find the number of events that I've just mentioned

[4:16:22] are currently and that are organized by the Chamber are adequately, they adequately provide

[4:16:29] local artisans opportunities for marketing their wares within the City of Ohio.

[4:16:35] And while the prospect of moving a couple of the daytime events to the evening would be

[4:16:41] a good experiment for the Chamber, as well as the community if the Chamber chooses to move

[4:16:47] forward with that. So, the council this evening has the option of taking no action or providing

[4:16:54] staff with direction to do more research, however staff is recommending that the council

[4:17:00] direct staff to continue upholding the municipal code as it is while continuing to work with the

[4:17:06] chamber. Any questions for staff? Okay. Mr. Stangold and Mr. Miley.

[4:17:17] Good evening. Personally,

[4:17:21] I'm against night time markets only because it becomes a slippery slope once you allow one

[4:17:32] Even if it's an experiment, it'll be tough to put the jeanie back in the bottle and now it's eight o'clock nine o'clock ten o'clock at night

[4:17:40] The city of Ohio even on weekends tens of essentially shut down at eight o'clock and

[4:17:47] time markets will increase traffic during the evening. It will increase noise. There will be

[4:17:53] lights and it's just one more thing that's changing Ohio. I moved here because it's Ohio. I'm defending

[4:18:04] Ohio. I'm an imbiom as bad as anybody. Some of the people have been here forever. Okay. Or good. It's

[4:18:11] more action, more action, more action, and this more traffic at night, more people at night,

[4:18:18] more things are going on, then they'll be, you know, I understand its economics, I understand

[4:18:24] the businesses would hopefully generate more money. The clubs would be stay open, they'd

[4:18:28] be open until 930. But it's just more business, more activity that I don't think the residents,

[4:18:39] Even though they may be artists and the long haul would end up accepting because it's not just

[4:18:45] It's now it's two then it becomes five then it becomes ten then it's become somebody who's not a member of the chamber

[4:18:51] Now it's a non-profit wants to have a nighttime one. How are you going to say oh the chamber?

[4:18:57] We can have one at night, but the non-profit can't now all of this you know you're getting you're opening up more

[4:19:05] more genius, more activity, more action. And I understand, you know, that a lot of people

[4:19:14] from inside the city want to have their stores, they want to have their shops. But I just

[4:19:19] think that nine is enough, or nine during the day is enough, but not at night. I mean,

[4:19:26] that's me. I mean, and I'll stay up till one o'clock in the morning. I don't care, but

[4:19:30] I just don't, I just think that there's just way too many things for me on it night that people will at the end of the day, not like.

[4:19:38] So thank you. Mr. Miley.

[4:19:49] At the end of this administrative report, this statement is the focus of my comment.

[4:20:00] City staff and the R. Chamber of Commerce find a number of events currently organized by the Chamber,

[4:20:07] in the held in the city, adequately provide local artisans opportunities for marketing their works.

[4:20:16] While the proposed, by the prospect of moving a couple of the daytime events, tonight hours may be a good and firm ad.

[4:20:25] For the Chamber as well as for the community. Okay, that's right.

[4:20:28] focus on. Over the years my wife and I

[4:20:36] have gotten to know and they after she passed I have several artists in town in the valley that we value a lot and thus we have become more tuned to the role that artists contributed to the aura

[4:20:58] of our OI Valley, and it's historical remembrances,

[4:21:07] what I did not find in this report was

[4:21:11] a deliberate statement from the OI studio artist, the OI studio artist, that their artists

[4:21:20] do not need any additional community nonprofit markets for showing their product, like

[4:21:27] a night.

[4:21:28] If that report, or study, or commentary from the OIS studio artists, can be produced,

[4:21:40] then let further market events graduate, gradually evolve, don't consider night market.

[4:21:48] Otherwise, if you don't have a statement from them, ask them.

[4:21:53] Thank you.

[4:21:55] Thank you, Mr. Miley.

[4:21:55] Anything online, Mr. Montgomery?

[4:21:59] Stand by, Mayor.

[4:22:00] I was originally in our meeting.

[4:22:03] No, no, raise hands.

[4:22:05] Yes.

[4:22:07] Well, I'll put a motion on the table.

[4:22:08] Yeah, I'll hear it.

[4:22:10] I will make a motion to direct the city manager to continue to uphold the Ohio Municipal Code,

[4:22:18] while working with the chamber toward a potential not for profit.

[4:22:21] Second.

[4:22:23] I would like to discuss.

[4:22:28] So when we had the meeting of all of the artisans, the local artisans,

[4:22:37] they did not feel that these festivals were appropriate for their wares.

[4:22:44] And they were pretty clear on that.

[4:22:46] They did not feel that it was suited for their wares,

[4:22:51] Which brings me to the point of, we look at the, I look at these artisans and I look at, for instance, at the Thursday community market, these are ways to incubate businesses.

[4:23:05] These are, these are people that are attempting to find a way to have a, to make a living in Ohio, and it's not possible for them for brick and mortar.

[4:23:19] This is an alternative way it cuts down, you know, overhead, therefore they need to make less and they can still survive.

[4:23:31] I mean, the brick and the mortar, I know that we talked about, you know, we had a lot of input from the brick and mortar stores about how it took away from their business and that they only get their business.

[4:23:43] you know, on Saturday and I thought the discussion had moved towards allowing local artisans to

[4:23:51] actually have these nonprofit markets. And somehow we ended up not going there, we ended up sort

[4:24:00] of taking with the night markets. So a couple, and now we're down to, you know, sort of combining

[4:24:09] the chamber, which I don't think has, you know, has maybe a few artisans, but it's a completely different

[4:24:19] business, business model, the people who are members of the chamber, than the artisans.

[4:24:24] And I'm not even really talking about the studio artists who basically have their studios.

[4:24:29] You know, when they have, they have their studio Saturdays and things.

[4:24:32] I'm talking about people that are creating individual objects for sale, whether it's clothing

[4:24:40] or whatever it happens to be.

[4:24:44] We're pulling the rug out from underneath them and we're saying that you can throw in

[4:24:51] with the chamber and they were very clear that their audience does not come to the lavender

[4:24:57] festival, that they're...

[4:25:00] Customers don't come from the Lavender Festival. We're just, for me, we're closing down a whole group of

[4:25:08] O. High Artisans as a way for them to provide for themselves and stay in O. High.

[4:25:17] Yeah, just to respond. This conversation I thought happened before. And my recollection is that, as you say,

[4:25:25] the Thursday Farmers Market is a place where artisans are selling things, so it's not just what's listed here,

[4:25:29] But it isn't, my impression is we're not pulling away the rug,

[4:25:33] we're just keeping the existing policy.

[4:25:36] So there's not a change, we're just persisting in what is.

[4:25:39] And I thought there were a lot of businesses in town saying,

[4:25:43] the difficulty of having markets where you had non-locals here,

[4:25:47] that were selling things that the stores were selling also,

[4:25:50] became a huge issue.

[4:25:52] So to have that all again, sounds like you possibly want to revisit

[4:25:56] the entire conversation again.

[4:25:57] but I thought what's being requested is,

[4:26:00] or proposed, is to continue from the learning

[4:26:03] that happened, from that conversation.

[4:26:05] That's how it appears to me, but.

[4:26:07] Right.

[4:26:08] So, let's go to, let's go to, is like.

[4:26:10] Also, our current code allows for non-profit,

[4:26:15] for non-profit.

[4:26:16] It's been, like, a groups.

[4:26:19] It's just for profit ones.

[4:26:22] So, if a non-profit group wanted to have a market,

[4:26:28] then at the women's club, for example, or go ahead.

[4:26:31] They want one in the club.

[4:26:33] Yeah, exactly.

[4:26:34] Inside they can do it.

[4:26:35] So would you like me to respond to this?

[4:26:38] Yes, absolutely.

[4:26:39] So inside it can be a for profit or a not for profit.

[4:26:44] Outside they would require a temporary use from it.

[4:26:48] And it would be for non-profit.

[4:26:49] Right.

[4:26:50] So, in addition to these, a non-profit entity could have an out-door market for local artists.

[4:26:59] So, with the temporary...

[4:27:00] Yes.

[4:27:01] With the temporary...

[4:27:02] It's temporary.

[4:27:04] So, that's what the code provides currently.

[4:27:06] So, again, the farmer's market is a great example where there are artists in there,

[4:27:10] practically every week that there was even a theme that they're having more theme.

[4:27:14] So, it doesn't seem to me there are those opportunities.

[4:27:16] As I recall though, there was the willingness to give these conditional use permits because

[4:27:27] of the complaints of traffic and am I not remembering that correctly that the idea would

[4:27:33] be that we would be less willing to do that.

[4:27:36] So we have not received an application from a non-profit for an outdoor market.

[4:27:45] We've only received requests for for-profit markets, and those are, so that's how we ended up here.

[4:27:54] To be fair, just to even take a step further, I put myself out there as the director

[4:28:02] making the determination through these TEPs.

[4:28:05] There is a wrinkle in the code that allows for that,

[4:28:08] as long as it doesn't have an impact in the community.

[4:28:12] And what we found when we did a six month study

[4:28:15] with one of them, and actually two of them,

[4:28:17] if I recall correctly, is that there was a resounding concern

[4:28:22] that was coming for the business owners

[4:28:24] and the property owners.

[4:28:25] So it became kind of a workshop of sorts

[4:28:29] that we had here, I don't know, a year ago, maybe, and then that led to us having discussion here,

[4:28:37] and then saying, hey, let's think about, what about night markets? There's this workshop

[4:28:43] that we're going to university, let's see what comes out of that, as well as reaching out to a

[4:28:47] couple of other cities to see what sort of things come from that. What we're finding is that

[4:28:54] markets may not necessarily be the pivot, but if there's an interest in expanding it or at least

[4:29:01] trying it out and kicking the tires, the chamber is interested in potentially doing that.

[4:29:07] You're hearing from the community if you open up that maybe you open up Pandora's box.

[4:29:11] I'm not sure that I'm in that same category, because I think you can just as easily as I had

[4:29:16] done with the six-month trial close that box once you kind of assess the situation.

[4:29:23] Also the chambers in transition right now and and there's a new person directing in a consulting role

[4:29:29] So we'll see how that emerges, but we'll be working with them as part to to your to your point in terms of there were I mean

[4:29:37] We've

[4:29:38] Mar and I have met with the individuals and the groups that are interested from the for-profit standpoint

[4:29:44] We've told them their avenue is to figure out the the nonprofits status that has a different wrinkle to it

[4:29:50] And it also gives back to the community. That's really kind of what we're looking at and from that's right. The code is looking for as well.

[4:29:57] I see that. Right. So and and not

[4:30:00] On-profit status, versus a profit, you would actually have to get a nonprofit status, but a for-profit is anyone who is not a non-profit.

[4:30:08] Exactly, right. Always have a non-profit that's running the show.

[4:30:12] I was just going to say that, yeah, you could actually have any organizers create a co-op or a non-profit.

[4:30:22] The sponsor needs to be a non-profit.

[4:30:24] Right.

[4:30:24] Like community farmers mark?

[4:30:27] Okay, well, all right ready. We have a motion in a second

[4:30:32] Yes, we do mayor roll call council member, man

[4:30:38] Yes, mayor pretend like yes

[4:30:42] Council member rule no

[4:30:46] Mayor Gilman. Yes, council member with me. Yes, motion pass. Okay

[4:30:55] any reports? I have one. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, the ad hoc float committee has been meeting.

[4:31:04] Oh, yeah. And we are, we are going to, we are, and after I had to get rained in quite a bit,

[4:31:16] because I had like wild ideas. Um, we are hoping to, and I'd like to add this as an agenda item.

[4:31:22] we were hoping to present our renderings

[4:31:26] and creative brief at the next meeting.

[4:31:31] Thank you, Juno.

[4:31:31] Time to work on things.

[4:31:33] Exactly.

[4:31:35] Yeah.

[4:31:36] Statue of Liberty.

[4:31:37] I'm not going to be in town.

[4:31:41] Yeah.

[4:31:45] I have two short things.

[4:31:46] One is a week from today in this room at 6 o'clock.

[4:31:49] They'll be a student council, city of Ohio, student council meeting, you're all about our

[4:31:54] come, if you wish, and it'll be Christy Rivera, Parks and Rec, interim director, making a

[4:31:59] presentation to students and getting their ideas, you're interested, and then the other

[4:32:04] thing which you saw in the report is we did meet with the commander of Vanderberg and his team

[4:32:09] and next steps will be really interesting, but trying to work with the base on sonic booms and

[4:32:16] working on science of that and trying to understand the impacts in different

[4:32:20] terrains and hopefully we can make it easier for our visit.

[4:32:26] Yes, sure. I've found out

[4:32:37] that it's a service that I want to do we get.

[4:32:42] You know, can we get our money back and we renegotiate?

[4:32:47] Because I think when we agreed to that service,

[4:32:50] They knew something was in the works. It did not to say that we don't have money where poor all of that stuff

[4:32:57] Doesn't sit well. So I don't

[4:33:01] Even if you wanted to not assign motive you could simply say they have more resources than they did in before the

[4:33:07] So we can at least say okay, she are the well

[4:33:12] Well, they did very great

[4:33:15] That's what I mean. Yeah, so so we can change things that we can certainly request that

[4:33:22] I agree, but I will say that the entirety of those funds were granted for two facilities,

[4:33:30] to build two facilities, so it's not like they have this extra money, but they put in for

[4:33:35] grants for two facilities. And you know, that's important. Just saying.

[4:33:42] Anything else? Mr. Harvey, nothing? No report. Okay, meeting adjourned.

Ojai City Council Regular Meeting

Agenda

Transcript