[0:07] Call in the regular city council meeting of August 25, 2026 to order. If you have not already done so, please silence

[0:15] your cell phones at this time. And I am to announce that we are welcoming those that are in person

[0:22] in the chamber and those participating remotely. We'll begin tonight with an invocation led by

[0:29] us your Rob Crankton of Orangeville Bible Church.

[0:33] We followed by the pledge of allegiance led by Councilmember Gillen-Haver,

[0:37] please stand.

[0:41] It's proud to have a father and come before you tonight to acknowledge your authority

[0:45] and to thank you for the opportunity to bring our prayers before you.

[0:49] We're thankful for this great city and all its stands for.

[0:52] We thank you for our elected officials and seeing employees at serve this city.

[0:57] We thank you for the many groups that work to make this a great place to live.

[1:00] And so on behalf of a grateful community, we ask for your blessings on your public servants.

[1:05] We thank you for rising up later leaders committed to a greater good.

[1:10] And we be reminded that we are to pray and support our representatives.

[1:15] And as to the past, we thank you for the foresight, the wisdom of our pioneer leaders who laid the foundation for this community.

[1:21] And envisioned this success we now live.

[1:24] We thank you for the men and women who have told not only for the progress of our prosperity but also the quality of our character.

[1:30] And so for this day we pray for wisdom to mediate between commissioner and petitioner, the challenge as they face her enormous, their work is important and their agenda is full.

[1:40] Grant them insight as they steward our precious resources.

[1:43] Give them understanding and wise judgment as they must make difficult choices among competing priorities.

[1:49] Surely years how to preserve the best of the past.

[1:51] You have built a future for the generation to come.

[1:54] The same way they stand with all and respect on the shoulders, so those who receive them may all who follow in their footsteps in the same way honor them

[2:02] We have no doubt that you have elevated these men and women to leadership for such a time as is we praise the name of Christ

[2:31] Thank you, Pastor

[2:35] Not a clerk please call the role

[2:37] Mayor, Protem, Beledo

[2:42] Council Member Varios, I'm here.

[2:45] Council Member Dimitri.

[2:48] Council Member Tavalaris.

[2:50] Council Member Bootiers.

[2:53] Council Member Gillen Hammer.

[2:55] Here.

[2:55] Mayor Slater.

[2:56] Here.

[2:56] I promise, President.

[2:58] Tonight we have a presentation that has become a traditional thing we do in the month of September.

[3:06] a Proclamation recognizes September 20, 26, as hunger action month.

[3:12] Tonight we have Mike Lyurocos with CEO of a Bound Food Care and Jenny Collette, Manager

[3:20] of Public Affairs at Orange County, United Way to accept the Proclamation and Council Member

[3:25] Gutierrez will read it.

[3:28] Thank you.

[3:29] So this is a Proclamation honoring 20, 26, hunger action month, whereas hunger and poverty

[3:35] are issues of vital concern in California, or 20% of California households and 27% of households

[3:42] with children experienced food in security and do not know where their next meal will

[3:46] come from.

[3:47] And whereas, everyone needs nutritious food to thrive and people are working hard to provide

[3:51] for themselves and their families, yet over 387,000 individuals, including over 112,000

[3:59] children, that is one in six children, here in Orange County are food insecure.

[4:03] And whereas the City of Orange is committed to taking steps to come back hunger in every part of our community and to provide additional resources that those in our community need.

[4:13] And whereas the City of Orange is committed to working with the Orange County Hunger Alliance and educating people about the role and importance of food banks and food care in addressing hunger and raising awareness of the need to devote more resources and attention to hunger issues.

[4:28] And whereas, in 2025, Orange County Food Bank and Second Harvest Food Bank, collectively

[4:34] record an average of 108,473 individual food distribution visits per month from our community

[4:41] members facing food insecurity and distributed 72,837,548 pounds of food through their partner

[4:50] networks of food pantries at senior citizens, a senior center, sorry, schools, colleges,

[4:56] universities, houses of worship, soup kitchen.

[5:00] Shelters and other community organizations. And whereas, a bound food care helps to facilitate the recovery

[5:06] of more than £25 million of excess edible food in Orange County each year. Reducing food waste and diverting

[5:13] the food to those who need it. And whereas, the month of September has been designated as hunger

[5:18] action month in order to bring attention to food insecurity in our communities and to enlist the public in

[5:24] movement to end hunger by taking action, including volunteering, donating, and advocating to ensure

[5:30] every community and everybody in it has a food they need to thrive.

[5:35] And whereas food banks and other organizations across the country, including the members

[5:39] of Orange County Hunger Alliance, will host events throughout the month of September to bring

[5:44] awareness and help end food insecurity in our local community.

[5:48] Now that our four are Dan Slater, Mayor of the City of Orange, do here by recognizing September

[5:52] for 2026 as hunger action month in the city of orange

[5:55] and called as observance to the attention of our residents

[5:59] dated this 25th day of August 2026

[6:03] and are they here to receive the population?

[6:05] I see Mike and Jenny, if you'd like to come forward.

[6:09] You want to all come down?

[6:10] I don't want you just to take it.

[6:12] You are welcome to like, great

[6:21] job.

[6:22] It's a long, long time ago.

[6:24] I could have asked for all of this.

[6:25] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[6:35] Thank you, Mike

[6:47] and Jenny, for all you do.

[6:53] All right. It is time for public comments.

[6:58] Ask the City Clerk how many public comments are in so far. We have 20 public speakers so far.

[7:03] you say 20. 20. Okay. That will make this decision a little easier. If this time members

[7:09] of the public may address the council on matters not listed on the agenda within the

[7:14] subject matter jurisdiction of the city council provide that no action may be taken on

[7:19] off agenda items unless authorized by law. Public comments this evening due to the amount are

[7:25] to three minutes, I'm sorry, two minutes per speaker, unless a different time limit is announced.

[7:34] It will be two minutes.

[7:36] If any members of the public who are participating through Zoom wish to address the council on non-agenda items,

[7:41] please raise your hand. If you are calling in, please press star 9 to raise your hand.

[7:47] We'll hear in-person speakers first and then move on to remote speakers.

[7:51] If you are participating remotely, the City Clerk will announce when your three minutes are up and then you will be muted.

[8:00] So, the in-person speakers, the first one up is Kurt Peterson, followed by P. Law and Gutierrez Lucero.

[8:08] And if the next speaker could make their way toward the front be ready to go, that would be great. Mr. Peterson.

[8:15] Good evening, I'm speaking on behalf of Wendy Raglan, my longtime friend who couldn't make it tonight.

[8:21] She states last week, I received a formal letter from the city clerk's office directing me to remove a stylized city of orange graphic from the city of orange political forum.

[8:33] And to stop using the city's name in the form title, frankly, I found that extraordinary.

[8:37] City of Orange political forum exists for political discussion, civic engagement, and public oversight of local, state and federal government.

[8:47] The title simply identifies the subject of the discussion.

[8:50] We discussed City of Orange politics, so the forums call the City of Orange political forum.

[8:56] City clerk-based or demand on Orangeman to spoke code 1.12, while I understand the city's interest in protecting its officials, ceiling logos.

[9:05] I do not believe that the interest extends to dictating how residents identify or discuss the government in private political forum.

[9:14] I complied with a request because I had no interest in turning a Facebook graphic into the speech with City Hall.

[9:20] My compliance should not be mistaken for agreement.

[9:23] It concerns me, it's a president, a municipal ordinance, intended to protect official city

[9:29] identifiers should not be used in a manner that we choose into a private forum dedicated

[9:35] to political discussion and civic participation.

[9:38] Residents should not receive government demand letters for engaging in a discussion about

[9:43] their local government.

[9:44] I'm asking for the council to review the chapter 1.12 to review how the chapter 1.12 is being

[9:52] interpreted and applied to the formal, and to formally retract the city's letter.

[9:59] Political speech.

[10:00] We've civic engagement and public oversight are not problems to be managed. The essential parts of local government. Thank you.

[10:08] Thank you.

[10:08] Thank you, Kurd following Pilar is Kevin New.

[10:15] Good evening. This is a public comment on the 24-11 North glass electricity warehouse. I'm up here to oppose to it.

[10:24] Good evening, Mayor and members of the city council. My name is Villargot Yoranzu Salon. I'm here as a resident to ask you to stop the proposed warehouse project at 24-11 North Warehouse.

[10:33] house street. I understand that the city has an interest in economic development, new businesses,

[10:39] jobs, and additional revenue. I also understand that the developer may believe this project

[10:43] makes economic sense. But tonight I ask you to consider a different question. That this project

[10:49] makes sense for the people who have to live next to it. The proposal is for nearly 299,000. It's

[10:56] for food in the U.S. where house with 36-loading dockets, operating in an area where homes are

[11:01] approximately 54 feet from the project boundary. This is not an abstract development somewhere

[11:07] far away from an neighborhood. This is a massive industrial operation being placed immediately

[11:11] next to people's homes. And the consequences will not be temporary. If this warehouse is approved

[11:18] and built, resin will leave with its impacts for decades. We are talking about increased

[11:24] traffic, diesel emissions noise, nighttime activity

[11:27] relating and accumulating effects of industrial

[11:30] operations, immediately I guess, into the homes.

[11:33] The health issue alone should make all of us stop and think.

[11:37] People cannot choose not to breathe the air outside their homes.

[11:41] They cannot choose their ears to track, to track noise every night.

[11:45] They cannot simply move their homes farther away from an industrial

[11:49] facility once it has been built.

[11:51] And children's cannot make that choice either.

[11:54] The city has identified a quality noise, transportation, and accumulated effect as issues

[11:59] requiring environmental review for this project.

[12:03] So, of course, a QMD also has made a formal comment on the city's environmental document.

[12:09] I respectfully ask you to look beyond the financial benefit of this project and consider

[12:13] responsibility you will carry if it is approved.

[12:16] Please choose the health safety and long-term well-being of orange-freecy and please deny this

[12:20] Thank you, Pilar. After Kevin is Rachel Rallnicky.

[12:27] Good evening. I live in the neighborhood next to the 2-4-11 North

[12:31] Glacell project coming up. Here's what's changed this week. A 298,98,980 square foot industrial

[12:38] building, building, running 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, the nearest bedroom, 54 feet from

[12:44] the property line. Fletcher Academy is a quarter mile away inside the

[12:52] distance California law

[12:53] for schools. The children who walk there live in those bedrooms. 24 hours a day means backup

[12:58] alarms at 2 in the morning, 54 feet from a child's window. The city owns city's own environmental

[13:04] document puts the cancer risk at nearest home at 10.7 and a million before mitigation. The threshold

[13:11] is 10. Significant, one measure, cleaner construction equipment brings it to 9.48.

[13:21] That's how

[13:23] The same document shows a second version with 36.

[13:26] The numbers I just gave you are the five dock version.

[13:30] Rexford has confirmed in writing that they're building the 36 dock version, not the

[13:34] five.

[13:35] Our regional air district called that marginally high sensitive to its assumptions, starting

[13:40] with a fire pump, modeled at 50 hours a year that can run four times that.

[13:44] The city told the city to rerun it, they have, those documents exist tonight.

[13:49] If the September 10th hearing holds the public first season, September 3rd, 7 days or

[13:54] a Labor Day weekend, ask yourself tonight why we can't see them now, yesterday and

[14:00] riding the city refused to reopen the common period, nothing changed and says about the

[14:04] documents that no one has read.

[14:06] If the commission approves the September 10th, it's finished, never reaches you guys, a less

[14:11] a resident pays to appeal it.

[14:13] So I'm telling you tonight, well it's free.

[14:14] My neighbors have stood here before, we'll be back September 8th and we'll have to pay

[14:19] for the privilege of standing here again.

[14:21] Thank you guys for your time.

[14:22] Thank you Kevin, following Rachel,

[14:24] is Andrew Gregoyan?

[14:28] Good evening, Mayor.

[14:30] City Council, my name is Rachel Niki.

[14:32] I want to speak with you with urgency tonight

[14:34] about Rexford Industrial Realty's proposed trucking warehouse

[14:38] at 211, Gillesale, and explain why my neighbors

[14:42] and I are strongly opposed to this project.

[14:44] I'm a district three homeowner in North Orange,

[14:46] And I live just 80 feet from the proposed development site.

[14:49] This is not an abstract issue for my family.

[14:52] My husband and I have a one year old daughter.

[14:54] We chose this neighborhood because we plan to raise our family here.

[14:57] But this project is forcing us to seriously question what the future is.

[15:00] Our neighborhood will look like Rex were just proposing to demolish the existing office warehouse park at Glacell and Pletcher and replace it with a nearly 300,000 square foot warehouse with 36 truck bays operating 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 300, 65 days a year. This will be built directly next to homes in a quarter mile from Pletcher Elementary. The impact of that level of truck activity would be enormous.

[15:23] More heavy truck, I mean, more emissions, more noise, more traffic, more wear on our city streets, more danger for the people who already live.

[15:30] there. My neighbors and I would be breathing the same pollution from those trucks every day and

[15:34] so with the approximately 500 children attending Pletra Elementary. Parents navigating

[15:38] the streets around the school should not also have to contend with a large constant stream

[15:43] of trucks traveling through the same corridor. Pletra may be one day my daughter's school

[15:48] and we don't want to face this. And this does not stop when the school day ends. Rexford

[15:53] is proposing an operation throughout the night on weekends and every day of the year residents

[15:57] living beside this property would be expected to endure truck activity noise and sleep disruptions

[16:02] 24 hours a day. This is not the orange way, and I want to be very clear. We are not asking

[16:07] for better conditions, reduced hours, or small concessions that attempt to make an inappropriate

[16:11] project less harmful. The fundamental problem is the location and use itself. Orange should not

[16:18] make our neighborhood the president for placing intensive trucking operations at the site established

[16:22] homes in near and elementary school. Thank you very consideration.

[16:26] Thank you, Rachel. Following Andrew's Darcy D'Castro.

[16:32] Hello, my name is Andrew Goyne. I'm a fourth generation Orange County resident and I'm here

[16:37] today to talk about the Flock Cameras and Orange. This has been a massive topic going around

[16:43] the US currently and the issue with them is that there is no oversight into these cameras

[16:50] being placed and how they are used.

[16:52] They are collecting masses amounts of data of where people are going, logging it, and allowing

[16:57] for people on other states and other jurisdictions to see where people are going.

[17:02] There is a story of a man in Florida stalking his ex-wife, 717 times.

[17:08] That is a police officer, a sworn police officer that was stalking his wife with these cameras.

[17:13] There is another issue where flock themselves have been known to look at pools and children's

[17:19] gymnastic rooms while trying to show off the capabilities of flock cameras.

[17:24] These are dangerous for our community, for a multitude of reasons.

[17:27] I know that I'm uncomfortable knowing that they are here because they have been upgraded multiple

[17:33] times to be able to ping Bluetooth off your phone and get a data scrape of what's on your

[17:38] phone and your information.

[17:41] These cameras aren't to be used by anyone, not just who has access to them and police can use them.

[17:49] But anyone in the police can use them and they don't need a warrant.

[17:53] I feel like that is just completely unamerican.

[17:57] And it goes back to George Orwell, warned about in his book in 1984.

[18:01] for it is master valence and in this country, we, I believe, have a right to not be stopped

[18:08] from place to place.

[18:09] If someone is following you from your home to your job and then back, you would call the police.

[18:14] Why is a camera that is logging that same data and saying it to a massive corporation in

[18:18] any difference?

[18:19] Just because it is a corporation that is working with the government, there is no oversight

[18:24] and these cameras are dangerous for our community.

[18:26] Thank you.

[18:27] Thank you, Andrew, following Darcy as Sharon Edland.

[18:35] Good evening, Mayor, council members.

[18:38] My name is Darcy D'Castro, I've lived in

[18:40] Parkman Street since 1990.

[18:43] 36 years in the same house.

[18:46] I know this isn't your item tonight.

[18:48] You aren't voting on anything.

[18:51] It goes to your planning commission of September 10th.

[18:54] I came anyway, because by the time it reaches you,

[18:57] if it reaches you, it will be too late to say quietly.

[19:01] Three offices in a parking lot. That's what's there now. What's proposed is a building

[19:06] about the size of five football fields open around the clock with the nearest bedroom 54 feet

[19:13] from the fence. Three things and I'll be brief. The trees. There are 282 on that property. The plant

[19:22] takes 232 of them. The city's own study says birds may nest in those trees. The protection

[19:30] it offers is a biologist walking the site before the sauce start, deciding on the spot how much

[19:36] room to leave, no distance, no number, nothing anyone could enforce, the nights.

[19:45] ours is a quiet neighborhood, it is quiet at night and has been for 46 years, others will

[19:52] give you the air quality numbers tonight, I won't repeat them, I'll tell you what the

[19:57] study assume instead. Three loaded.

[20:00] The meeting doves in use at one time, a version of that same building in that same document has 36.

[20:09] And the children, this will change the neighborhood that children here are growing up in. Thank you for your time.

[20:16] Thank you, Darcy. Following Sharon Edlin is Allison Telford.

[20:23] Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. I represent St. Mary Magdalene Church located at the corner of

[20:30] and English so. We are asking to be placed on the next agenda to consider allowing the church

[20:37] to participate in a parking permit program with the other residents along almond street.

[20:45] We are asking that you give us the same consideration that you have with those residents.

[20:51] We are not a retail store or a restaurant. We are a house of God. Since 1982 we have lived across

[20:58] from the Plaza. At that time, the city desired to have someone take over a rundown old building

[21:05] that was co-located with the historical building. When the church purchased the building,

[21:12] there was a mutual understanding that the city would assist the church as parking with parking

[21:18] as needed because of the small lot size. In 1982, the city had very few restaurants was not open

[21:26] on Sundays, so I am speculating that there was no need for a written agreement.

[21:31] Today, things are much different.

[21:34] We are suffering from a loss of available parking near us, and that is why I'm here.

[21:40] We are not asking for free parking.

[21:43] We are not asking for you to consider us as an exception.

[21:48] We have been an exception since 1982.

[21:52] There is no city employee that is identified to identify that I know of to speak on or to talk to about exceptions.

[22:02] We are now asking for your thought, well, consideration in this matter by placing us on the next month's agenda.

[22:09] Thank you so much for hearing us.

[22:11] Thank you, Chair.

[22:13] Following Allison, Telford is Chloe Flatterty.

[22:20] Good evening, Mayor, and members of the City Council and thank you for your opportunity to speak today.

[22:25] My name is Allison Telford, and I want it to be an additional voice to encourage the preservation of the role of

[22:31] skating community and history in order to by preserving holiday skates on her.

[22:36] As I reflect on my skating journey that started at Holiday Skates Center in the 90s,

[22:42] I think about the community and history of holiday skates center that I believe extends to hundreds of thousands

[22:46] if not millions of other skaters impacted by holiday skates center throughout the last 53 years.

[22:53] Roller skin offers a community that allows people to strengthen bonds while also making new connections,

[22:59] helping to protect from loneliness.

[23:01] The US Surgeon General's 2023 advisory about loneliness and isolation quantified the danger of loneliness,

[23:08] stinging up people who are socially disconnected face up to 29% higher risk of being matured death.

[23:13] A significant report from 2020 has estimated that loneliness could cause the U.S. economy over

[23:19] $406 billion a year.

[23:22] Holiday Skates Center helps prevent loneliness.

[23:25] Skaters help each other up, retake each other new skills, even if they don't know each other.

[23:30] Everyone is looking out for one another, and Skaters who are one strangers become acquaintances, friends,

[23:35] or even family.

[23:37] And I feel like there is multiple people in my family here tonight.

[23:41] Skating in the Holy Skate Center gives people a chance to be part of something bigger.

[23:45] I am grateful to have heard so many stories from the community that come to these city council meetings and at the ring.

[23:51] That showcase the rich history and legacy of Holidays Skates are in proof that it's not just a building, but a piece of orange history.

[23:58] The stories range from those who worked at the ring to those who competed to those who attended or hosted a birthday party at school events, non-profit events, filming funders or day camps, even those who met their spouse there.

[24:09] It's also a multi-generational community where grant parents can state with their grandkids and it's multi-generational.

[24:17] It's a beautiful place and I hope when you have the opportunity to make a decision,

[24:20] that you help balance the protection of this community and historical asset with the landowners.

[24:25] This is Ires, thank you.

[24:26] Thank you.

[24:27] Awesome.

[24:30] Thank you.

[24:31] Thank you.

[24:39] Thank you.

[24:40] University about flop cameras, I will begin now.

[24:44] Flog is a dystopian violation of our rights,

[24:47] and when I mean by that, is that it inverts

[24:49] the very nature of how police are supposed to function.

[24:52] Introducial investigations are crime is supposed to happen first,

[24:55] and then detectives are supposed to identify

[24:57] a list of plausible suspects.

[24:58] Thanks.

[24:59] And then...

[25:00] When the suspects are placed under investigation, but under flock, we are all everybody in this room every day at every time when we get into our cars, under investigation at all times for all crimes.

[25:12] What a crime actually does occur, the police have a list of pre-investigated suspects, that's you, that's me, that's everybody in this room who gets in a car, that is everybody in the city.

[25:22] Today, our constitutional rights, especially our fourth amendment rights, are flagrantly violated every single day, as a matter of regular government policy.

[25:31] The primary argument for investing in Falk is that it lets us investigate crimes.

[25:35] Falk lets us prevent crimes, but it's my position that this is actually a misnomer.

[25:40] Despite what others have said here, Falk does not investigate crimes at all.

[25:43] It is not a tool for investigating crimes, and that misnomer has apparently confused several people.

[25:47] Flock is, at its very foundation, a tool for investigating pre-crumbs, not crimes, but pre-crumbs.

[25:55] We can have Flock and Preserver Civil Liberties. This is a misnomer.

[26:00] We can make this technology work for us. This is a misnomer. We just need to install more safeguards.

[26:06] The very nature of this technology is that it cannot be reformed or regulated or managed. It is investigating pre-crumbs.

[26:13] This is not about efficiency, this is not about technological process.

[26:17] This is about taking shortcuts that will be detrimental to our most vulnerable populations in orange,

[26:22] not the least of which young women and our migrant communities.

[26:25] Please reconsider the flood cameras in orange to California.

[26:28] Thank you.

[26:29] Thank you, Chloe.

[26:31] Following Betsy is Rickles.

[26:34] My name is Betsy Neckon and I live a literal stone's throw from the proposed warehouse at

[26:41] I stand in solidarity tonight with many families in the neighborhood to speak against the project as proposed.

[26:48] According to the warehouse city database, maintained by the Redford Institute in Pitzer College,

[26:54] there are nine operational warehouses in the city of Orange.

[26:58] None of them are adjacent to residential neighborhoods,

[27:02] and only two of the warehouses are bigger than the proposed project, and they're quite old.

[27:06] existing warehouses have easy access to the 57 highway without passing by family homes.

[27:15] This new proposal puts a completely unfair burden on hundreds of families living in New York, New York, New York, New York, New York, New York,

[27:24] New York, New York, New York, New York.

[27:36] significantly affect our lives and health.

[27:39] Among other threats, the city's draft,

[27:42] mitigated, negative report showed an estimated cancer risk

[27:45] that exceeds regional standards,

[27:48] but cynically offered a mere tweak to the project

[27:51] that nudges the estimate to impact just below the threshold.

[27:55] That's not acceptable.

[27:57] And it leaves us questioning the city's commitment

[27:59] to protect us.

[28:01] We're asking that you insist on a full environmental impact report

[28:05] that uses realistic, current, and transparent assumptions to model the impact of the proposed project.

[28:13] There's far too much on the line for the families in my neighborhood to an accept and overly rosy and superficial analysis.

[28:21] Thank you. Thank you for your time.

[28:23] Thank you, Betsy. Following Rick Olson is Faith Shimono,

[28:28] Greetings Mayor Council City staff and citizens. My name is Rick Olson and I bring news

[28:34] you're 250 minute man this year from the Sun to the American Revolution. My most important

[28:40] report is that in July 4th the Continental Congress indeed approved the Declaration of Independence

[28:44] for the support of this declaration with firm reliance on the protection of divine providence

[28:49] we mutually pledge each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor. Each of these 56 delegates

[28:56] from the 13 colleagues signed no in the consequences if our cause failed indeed many of them

[29:01] paid the price.

[29:03] And July 8, the best ring throughout Philadelphia calling the citizens to the Pennsylvania

[29:07] State Building for a public reading of the Declaration, the State House Bill became famous,

[29:13] the most famous bell to ring that day, 26 earlier it was cast with a version of the book

[29:17] of the Bitticus that came true, that day proclaimed liberty throughout all the lands to

[29:21] all the inhabitants.

[29:22] The next day General Washington read the declaration to the assembled military in New York soon after the crowds gathered around the statue of King George III melted it down in turns

[29:32] It's led in 2000s and bullets to fight ironically his very own army

[29:36] George Washington reminded us it is one thing to proclaim independence. It is quite another to earn it

[29:42] We have begun the long fight to win the freedoms we have dreamed of and after in all the decades and centuries of our future

[29:48] the citizens will need to earn it. Not only defending our freedom from outside armies,

[29:52] but from internal conflicts as well. Thomas Jefferson said,

[29:56] understood this, and warned Americans will soon learn to make...

[30:00] Interested uses of every bright and power which they possess or assume. The public money, the public liberty, will soon be discovered of sources of wealth and dominion to those who hold them. Congress should afford to a time, and that is not a distance for distant one.

[30:14] When corruption in this, as in the country, which we drive our freedom from, will be seized at the heads of governments and be spread among them through the body of the people, when they will purchase the voices of the people and then make them pay the price.

[30:26] human nature is the same on every side of the Atlantic, and we'll be alike influenced by the

[30:31] same causes. The time is guarded, Benjamin Franklin, closed and said, we have a republic

[30:37] if we can keep it. Thank you, Reg. Nice uniform.

[30:42] Following, Faith is Sarah Chen call.

[30:49] Hello, I'm

[30:49] here to oppose the rezoning of holiday skate center. There's about 20 of us here, and we've

[30:55] been skating there a very long time. I personally have lived in this city for about 23 years

[31:00] and holiday has definitely been a part of all those 23 years. I was really planning on making

[31:07] it the rest of my life, but it's kind of up into you guys. So I really hope you do not

[31:11] resume in holiday skate center. I really like to keep skating there, follow my friends, and my family

[31:17] now. And Allison Telford has pretty much said it all. I echo everything that she says. So thank you so much.

[31:26] Following Sarah, is Eric now?

[31:34] Good evening.

[31:35] Thank you for letting me speak about holiday-says summer.

[31:39] Well, they're skating first gain popularity in the U.S. during the Great Depression.

[31:46] For 50 years holiday-says summer has become more than a building its community.

[31:52] My argument is simple.

[31:54] Where in Orange County can a family of four spend an entire afternoon together for less than a hundred dollars?

[32:04] Holiday Skates Center is one of the last answers to that question.

[32:11] When families walk through that door, something remarkable happens.

[32:15] It doesn't matter what neighborhood you're from.

[32:18] How old you are, what language you speak, what you believe, it's or how much money you have,

[32:25] people come together, they laugh, they escape, they belong. That kind of place cannot be

[32:34] recreated on a zoning map.

[32:38] We all want affordable housing in Orange County, but affordable

[32:44] housing without affordable living is an incomplete promise.

[32:50] Will families move here if they can only put or roof over their house?

[32:58] You cannot build a thriving community with just walls.

[33:03] I ask you to protect holiday-skates under zoning,

[33:07] our community, and a piece of the American culture.

[33:12] Thank you.

[33:12] Thank you, Zara.

[33:15] Following Eric, there's Jane Hall today's assessment.

[33:25] My name is Eric, and I'm former DJ over at the Hall of the Skate.

[33:29] Before I get started, I'd like to see a group of skaters who came here to take a stand-up.

[33:34] My dad's stand-up.

[33:36] There's some of the faces that you'll see if you ever go down the skate at Hall of the League,

[33:40] which is no longer an existence in the city as fate says,

[33:43] to keep from rezoning that particular area.

[33:46] I've been in the sport for over 50 years.

[33:49] I remember back in Orange County in the 80s and 90s

[33:52] when we had 10 rings here.

[33:54] Now we're going to be down to one, found a valley.

[33:56] That's it.

[33:57] Holiday has been my home for the last 17 years.

[34:00] I watch people like Natalie over there.

[34:02] Now we stand up.

[34:04] Now there's seven-year-old young lady who's blossomed

[34:06] to a beautiful, beautiful butterfly.

[34:09] And she's always my favorite.

[34:10] And some of those things that I really enjoy when I go into

[34:17] to skate or to DJ, the smiles, the laughter, people you've never met before

[34:22] becoming friends, I always consider it's like a sanctuary.

[34:26] It's a place where people can go and no matter what your color is,

[34:29] which your disposition is, your politics makes no difference.

[34:32] You walk in the door, you throw in a purse case,

[34:34] and you're having a good time, no matter what.

[34:35] I'm going to ensure that's going to happen.

[34:38] And I know there is still one link I'd love to go to, but I hope you guys will vote

[34:44] to not rezone that particular and keep all that going.

[34:49] And I'd love to be able to do it for you guys to, if you come back and skate.

[34:52] I'd really enjoy that.

[34:53] As they know, I really enjoy it a lot, and that's really much it.

[34:59] Thank you so much.

[35:00] Good time. Thank you. Thank you, Eric.

[35:05] Following Jane is Tammy Deepo. You should have pulled a microphone.

[35:12] Hi, my name is Jane Hall of Disassumment and I'm here to talk about Hall of Discairink. Hall of Discairink has been a home and when I was a little my sister, city, she kept going there and I really, really wanted to go, but I couldn't roller skate.

[35:30] So when I grew up and C.D. was going to go to a holler escape ring, my mom asked,

[35:39] do you want to go? And I was like, yeah, and then I was so excited. And then I got to go on.

[35:45] And then I had the best time ever. And then I kept continuing going on there and I got

[35:51] funnier and funnier. And now I'm doing lessons with Natalie. And it's really fun. She's teaching

[35:58] really cool tricks and music great teacher and also just save holiday

[36:07] skater and don't raise on it please. Thank you.

[36:14] Following Tammy is Natalie Chen.

[36:24] Hi my name is Tammy and I'm speaking for

[36:25] the second time. I hope you all are doing well today. I would like to speak

[36:30] about what holiday skater means. Holiday skater means to me and my kids and all of

[36:34] here today. How it is a place where we find happiness. The music place is just you and your

[36:41] skates, you're in a different world of just leaving all your hairs behind, you're on this

[36:47] swing and it just it helps you in every single way. We all face struggles, you know, there's

[36:53] teenagers out there, then you need a place to go to, they're on the streets, they I pick up teenagers

[36:58] every week when I go. And we have such a blast there and echoing what Eric said. Thank you, Eric.

[37:06] He makes it fun for everybody. Every single Tuesday we go there and it's just a place where we find

[37:11] so much happiness. We could be at work, you know, struggling with something, we go to the ring,

[37:17] we leave it there. Our cellphones going to lockers, it's just us, our friends, having such a great time.

[37:25] I'm a librarian for an MC school district and student walked in last week and said,

[37:32] Hi, Mr. Poto. I saw his skin at the ring with all your friends who were having such a great time.

[37:37] Everybody was having such a great time and he didn't know the ring was going to close and I had to tell him and he was actually in tears.

[37:43] So he just started skating there and he would like to continue skating there. He said,

[37:47] My son's, when he was seven, he's springed his hand and had to take him to the doctor.

[37:52] He said, I'm never going to go on just how it is, Gates and again, up to this day.

[37:56] He's going to be 18 next month and he just wants to skate like never before and enjoy like

[38:02] all we do skating every week.

[38:04] Please keep this week open and consider the rezoning.

[38:08] It means a lot to us and all of our family here.

[38:12] Thank you.

[38:13] Thank you, Terry.

[38:15] Following Natalie is Maggie Sussleman.

[38:27] Hello, Mayor and council members.

[38:30] I'm here to talk about the rezoning of holiday skate center.

[38:33] Currently, the land owners are asking to raise on the property to make town homes.

[38:39] We have a fifth over 50 year old roller skating rink sitting on that property.

[38:47] I'm here to talk about not rezoning it because of the amazing life that has provided me and I know it provides all these kids like Jane and Maggie.

[39:00] I started there when I was six years old and I stepped onto that floor and absolutely hated it.

[39:06] I want to get off as fast as possible.

[39:08] And I talked to the Shaperone,

[39:10] and he said, I need to skate around the whole rink

[39:11] in order to get off.

[39:13] And by the time I got around the rink,

[39:15] I fell in love with it.

[39:17] And I went home and told my mom about it,

[39:19] and I'm so excited.

[39:20] Usually, I don't remember these field trips,

[39:22] the names of the places.

[39:23] I made sure to memorize the name,

[39:25] Hall of these Skates Center, in green into my brain.

[39:28] So I could go there, and she brought me the very next day,

[39:31] and I've been going there for lessons every week since.

[39:35] And now this has led to an 18-year-long artistic roller skating career and has allowed me to represent Team Jose several times.

[39:44] And that is quite insane to see a little kid who was afraid of putting Skates on has now got to represent her country.

[39:51] This opportunity, because I went on this field trip, and has allowed me to work with Chanel, HBO Max, dying in the Ross, now.

[40:00] Our judges in usher. All because of this one-field trip I took. Now, roll assgating can might seem just like a little hobby, but this is a place where people feel at home. I was bullied in school, like I told you guys last evening, and I thought how I'm going to find my friends of all ages.

[40:20] Like Eric, I got to meet him and he was DJing there and he was doing the throwbacks night

[40:25] and I did not know any throwback music when I was eight years old.

[40:28] I thought, why I'm saying it was it.

[40:31] So, that I'll tell you more about that next time.

[40:34] Thank you Natalie.

[40:37] After Maggie, where's Gloria?

[40:39] I don't know.

[40:41] I'm here to talk about how to discate.

[40:44] How to discate is my second home.

[40:46] I've been skating there for a very long time and I've been learning new tricks, new stuff, and a lot, and I just got a lesson today, and if I have all those tricks, I don't know where to like, do then, and because every day I think about holiday skate clothing, and then, like, what am I going to do with holiday skate closes?

[41:14] I'm going to have to find any subject and then nothing and then the thing that I will find

[41:23] I won't really find because I'll keep thinking about how to escape.

[41:28] That's the one thing I want to do and I want to keep going so just don't

[41:34] We found how to disobey it's really, really a home to.

[41:44] Thank you, Maggie.

[41:47] Falling Gloria is Kevin Reyes.

[41:54] Hello, good evening. My name is Gloria Rinalo.

[41:58] And I'm here to oppose the giant warehouse that's in consideration

[42:03] on the corner of the flat triangle cell.

[42:06] I live across the street just on the two houses from the project.

[42:14] My husband and I have lived there for 32 years.

[42:18] We raised our children there.

[42:20] We went to Fletcher Elementary and Pooh Park Schools.

[42:24] And we've been proud orange resonance for ever we love orange.

[42:29] So when this project arose, we thought,

[42:33] Okay, I'll give them a chance, let's see, you know, we're always pro, you know, improvement.

[42:40] And it sounded okay until we started, like asking questions and those questions were just vaguely answered.

[42:49] And then as we probed it a little bit more, then we discovered, hey, this is not what they're talking about.

[42:56] this like six-page project and only certain hours and y'all got out and I thought,

[43:05] I feel deceived and I feel like, no, I don't want the pollution. I don't want the noise.

[43:12] It's just too much for families and our children and the future. It's like we haven't in that area,

[43:21] there's a lot of it is zone commercial and because of that we're going to add more I'm just going

[43:28] what's going on with us here and let's look after our families, let's look after each other and

[43:36] that's what I feel is important. Yes you know improvement is great but we need to look for each other

[43:43] and I find this just just kind of disappointing that someone would let that happen to us.

[43:53] That's my piece.

[43:56] Thank you.

[43:59] Following Kevin, we have a remote speaker.

[44:16] Dear City Council, Mayor Slater, owners of the land, everyone watching and anyone within

[44:20] ear to ear.

[44:22] I campaign support for proving a Heritage Commission, a proposal for an environmental commission

[44:26] to create a report for warehouses in Glacell to oppose the rezoning of the land on which

[44:32] holiday stands and to request that a red line version of all city meeting agendas be provided

[44:36] to the public from this point forth. A Heritage Commission will help the City Government become a certified local

[44:41] government, which will help the gain access to funding provided by the California State Park

[44:45] Supplement. We'll provide a report to the City Council, much like the Planning Commission. The

[44:49] scope of the Heritage Commission will be preserving cultural significance, which is beyond the scope of

[44:53] the Planning Commission. And if it were co-opted by Confederate white supremacist racist fascist

[44:59] call.

[45:00] Public commentializing agents, and courses that are caused already built into overthrow and much like the declaration of independence.

[45:06] The declaration of independence states, we hold these truths to be self-evident, the all men are created equal, that they are indulicated by their Creator, certain unealable rights, that among them are life-flipty and a pursuit of happiness.

[45:17] Don't cut off the pursuit of happiness from orange.

[45:19] A impossibility of this pursuit is becoming the very place of Olympic artistic roller ski.

[45:24] What is required is a wooden ring like holiday. Don't tear it down instead get funding to refurbish it

[45:31] If not holiday, build a new wooden floor because everyone else is not the same

[45:36] Mayor Slater as a skateboarder, you know that there's nothing more frustrating than having someone snicker lying

[45:42] You already have a wooden floor. Why demolish it if we do if we do it is an action we cannot take back

[45:49] For what good is salt? If it loses its saltiness, it will be thrown out and trampled

[45:54] underfoot as useless. Preserve the wooden floor for holiday, preserve holiday,

[45:59] approve of a Heritage Commission, become a CLG, consider an environmental commission,

[46:04] provide his real-time versions of all council meetings, oppose the rezoning, and advocate for

[46:10] what is left of the American dream. This one is for Daldy Karten, rest in peace Daldy Karten,

[46:15] this one's for you. Thank you guys and may the best men win.

[46:20] We

[46:24] have a remote speaker and congratulations. You are a very first remote speaker since COVID. Who is that?

[46:35] It's color. Color with ending six to six for. Okay. You're on. You have two minutes.

[48:04] Thank you all right that into public comments next is the consent calendar. I'll start with my colleagues to say anyone have any items they'd like to pull for

[48:14] discussion or questions.

[48:19] Cosmere Barrios.

[48:21] Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

[48:22] I wanted to pull 3.3, 3.5, and 3.8.

[48:29] I think that was it.

[48:30] Yes, those were the only ones fixed.

[48:34] Any other of my colleagues?

[48:39] Do you have any ones that we need to pull from the public?

[48:42] Yes, Mayor.

[48:43] We received speaker cards for item 3.3 and 3.10.

[48:52] We have a motion to approve the balance from Cosmere

[48:55] to meet Drew, is there a second?

[48:59] Second, by Council Member Gillen Hammer, any discussion

[49:04] on the remaining items?

[49:06] Seeing none of call for the vote.

[49:15] Approved unanimously, okay, I have 3.3,

[49:22] agreement and appropriation of 87,182 dollars in grant funding.

[49:27] received for a fiscal year 2025 operation stone garden grant program council member Baris.

[49:35] I have to make a disclosure real quick.

[49:38] I have to just disclose for the public record that the administrator of this grant is my employer.

[49:44] It's the grant division.

[49:45] I am in a different division, which ever received no income.

[49:48] I received no benefit.

[49:50] Financial interest within the award or the distribution of funds.

[49:54] Thank you.

[49:55] Council member, council member Barios.

[49:59] Yes, first I want to...

[50:00] I think the city manager and the chief for providing additional information, but my self-incouncil member

[50:05] Gutierrez, but I have a number of additional questions that I'm going to try to get through

[50:09] without coughing, so I'm going to ask for the chief to head on it.

[50:18] And while you're making

[50:19] a way, obviously, it's no secret about how I feel about some of the departments with which we're

[50:25] working with and the takes of those federal operations. So I went through this very, very carefully,

[50:31] And there were still a lot of things that weren't obviously transparent.

[50:37] For example, while it was clear that how OPD would use the grant in terms of administrative oversight over time pay and body armor,

[50:49] it was not clear to me at all what operations you would actually be doing or would be done under the auspices of this grant.

[51:00] Good evening, Mayor members of City Council, we do have a staff report with Lieutenant Mancini that I think would be helpful, because it will cover a majority of the

[51:11] Operational questions like what will this look like?

[51:14] Who's in charge all of those type of questions?

[51:17] Before we did that, I just want to lay out just so you understand the police departments position on this.

[51:24] The item you have before you is a consideration of entering into the agreement with the US Department of Homeland Security

[51:29] through the California Governor's Office of Emergency Services, also known as OES for Operation Stone Garden.

[51:36] Our interest in this grant is to fulfill the specific direction of this council to each department to find new ways to fund their priorities given the state of the city's budget.

[51:45] There was a statement from the council to look in the couch for cushions for money.

[51:50] We are constantly looking at grants to ensure we are able to meet all of our priorities.

[51:54] In addition to this grant, two additional grants through ABC and OTS were on the agenda.

[52:00] Our top priority is service to our community in providing public safety.

[52:04] We do that in several ways, including the disruption of drug suppliers and traffickers.

[52:09] We believe that Operation Stone Garden provides the funding for us to manage this priority.

[52:13] Because I'm certain this will come up, I'll say the following and I've said it before,

[52:17] but I'll keep repeating it like a broken record.

[52:19] The Orange Police Department does not enforce immigration.

[52:22] We follow state law and department policy which prohibits it.

[52:26] We can't break the law to enforce the law.

[52:28] We would not enter into an agreement that would put a single position where we would

[52:32] knowingly break the law just to receive funding.

[52:35] Language specifically mentioned in this grant

[52:38] to enforce local and state laws subject to the California values act,

[52:42] also known as SB 54, and prohibits specifically stating

[52:46] shall not enforce or aid in the enforcement of immigration laws

[52:50] correlates to the involvement of the California governor's office of emergency services,

[52:55] which allows for our participation in allocation of funds.

[52:58] With that, I'd like to have Lieutenant John Mancini provide the overview of the operational

[53:03] side so that you can have a better understanding of how the funds will be used and then

[53:08] we can answer additional questions.

[53:14] Good evening Mayor and members of the City Council.

[53:16] So, Operation Stone Garden is a public safety grant whose primary purpose is to provide funding

[53:22] over time, equipment, and training to address transnational criminal organizations, drug

[53:28] trafficking, human trafficking, and weapons smuggling.

[53:32] These funds will enhance our ability to combat organized crime and improve public safety

[53:36] without placing an additional burden on the city and taxpayers.

[53:40] It's no secret that fentanyl has prevalent in our community, and in our parks just last week

[53:45] we responded to El Camino Park and provided in our can for a male who was overdosing.

[53:51] In total, officers have responded to nearly 40 of these similar incidents this year in 2026.

[53:58] Even if seen the news last week, we're three members of the Mexican Mafia were sentenced to

[54:01] life without parole for a murder they committed in Orange. This case of all three members of

[54:05] Organized Crime, who were murdered a drug trafficker, in Old Town, for failing to pay taxes to the

[54:15] S.I.U. served a search warrant in the 900 block of East Loveta and arrested a drug dealer and convicted felon.

[54:21] The incident resulted in the seizure of fentanyl and over 40 guns.

[54:26] We are located in the center of a major California county and we have five freeways that run through the city limits.

[54:32] I spent three years of my career working undercover with the DEA.

[54:35] There's no question that drug and human trafficking organizations operate within our city limits.

[54:41] The Orange Police Department has a team of detectives known as the Special Investigations Unit

[54:45] or SIU, and their duties include the type of work for which this grant is intended.

[54:50] Drug introduction, intelligence gathering, surveillance, and the disruption and dismaling

[54:55] of criminal organizations.

[54:57] This grant will help us fund and manage those priorities.

[55:01] The SIU Sergeant is the individual who supervises the day-to-day operations of this unit and will oversee the grant.

[55:08] His detectives established enforcement surveillance and strategies, sorry, enforcement and surveillance strategies.

[55:14] All of their cases have a nexus to the city of Orange, but oftentimes, as cases grow, they expand beyond our city limits.

[55:21] Over the last year and a half, SIU has conducted numerous operations and seized millions of dollars worth the fentanyl methamphetamine and other legal drugs.

[55:30] It is because of this that the Orange Police Department was recognized by the Riverside County Sheriff's Department as a worthy subrecipient of the grants.

[55:39] Under this grant, the Orange Police Department would not take any direction from an outside agency.

[55:44] Simply put, there's no collaboration with Border Patrol, the Riverside County Sheriff's Department, or any other agency regarding how we work our cases.

[55:53] These funds do not obligate us to work side-by-side with the United States Border Patrol or other federal agencies.

[56:00] These funds do not require our officers to check immigration status, communicate immigration information to other agencies, or perform any other action that would violate the California values Act.

[56:10] Our standard practices do not change.

[56:14] The Riverside County Sheriff's Department is the grant recipient for this region.

[56:18] They award funds to sub recipient agencies who have demonstrated commitment and competency with these types of investigations.

[56:25] That is the extent of their role in this process.

[56:28] Riverside County Sheriff's Department does not determine or approve our operations.

[56:33] They have no say in our involvement or how we conduct our activities.

[56:37] The same could be said for any other agency.

[56:39] Further legitimizing its compliance with the California Values Act, this program has been

[56:43] vetted by the California Governor's Office of Emergency Services.

[56:48] If there's further concern about the involvement of the Department of Homeland Security,

[56:52] the language in this grant is clear that these funds cannot be used for immigration enforcement.

[56:57] On page 3 of the agreement under Section 4.2, its state's parties will not enforce local

[57:03] and state laws within their designated jurisdiction subject to the California Values Act.

[57:07] We shall not enforce or aid in the enforcement of immigration laws on behalf of U.S. customs and border protection and U.S. border patrol.

[57:16] This agreement does not provide federal authority to parties to enforce immigration laws.

[57:22] Accepting this grant does not change the Orange Police Department's mission or commitment to serving every member of the community fairly and professionally.

[57:29] Our officers will continue to prioritize public safety, violent crime reduction, narcotics enforcement,

[57:35] and the protection of victims regardless of immigration status.

[57:39] This grant allows our city to leverage federal resources to enhance public safety while maintaining

[57:44] local control over our policing priorities and continue to build trust for the community

[57:48] we serve.

[57:50] This grant is investment in public safety, it's not a change in local immigration policy,

[57:55] and I'm happy to answer any questions that you have.

[58:01] I didn't notice before Mr. Mayor that there are two public speakers and I think they should

[58:05] probably go first.

[58:06] Okay, first speaker is Reggie Monica's followed by Mary Oberslake.

[58:19] I support this grant.

[58:21] I think it's a good idea to take this money.

[58:24] We need to do everything we can to get the illegal drug trade out of our community

[58:30] and one of the things that people can do on their own is to discourage the use of illegal drugs

[58:37] because if there was, nobody was buying that note and all these other things they're selling

[58:43] now, we don't have to do this, okay. This is very corrosive and destructive and dangerous

[58:49] in our community because the traffickers not only do they sell products that kill people,

[58:56] if you get no way, they think that you're expendable, they'll kill you. So I support this grant

[59:02] and I think it's necessary for our city to do this and their safeguards in place has nothing to do

[59:07] immigration enforcement. It's like we deal with OCTA, OCTA a lot. They give a lot of grants.

[59:14] It's like if you get a grant from them for a particular kind of environmental mitigation,

[59:20] we're supposed to do planting in a certain area. And then you, for some reason, decide to try to

[59:26] use it to fix heart-part pool, it's not going to work. They're going to come after you for that. So

[59:32] This is a good money. We need to take it. Thank you.

[59:35] Thank you, Reggie, I'm Mary.

[59:42] Mr. Mayor.

[59:43] Mayor Parchems to be Council members.

[59:46] I have written statements tonight.

[59:49] I apologize for my speech and pediment.

[59:52] I stand before you tonight as a representative of Indivisible Orange.

[59:58] We have grave concerns.

[1:00:03] In light of what we are learning about data breaches with ALPRS's and companies like Flock, nationally, and even here in our county, there is legitimate cause for concern about the impact of participating in a program like this.

[1:00:22] In a 2025 memo to the Trump administration,

[1:00:27] the electronic frontier of foundation criticized Stone Garden,

[1:00:32] arguing that technology companies

[1:00:34] steer police into a plane for the program

[1:00:37] to sell them needless surveillance technology.

[1:00:42] We don't need to spend our money needlessly.

[1:00:46] Are there any guarantees or guardrails in place

[1:00:49] to ensure that we may be compliance with SB 34 and no you've spoken at length about protections

[1:01:00] for our immigrant neighbors, but what about the rest of us under SB 34? Are we protected

[1:01:09] from future law lawsuits over potential civil rights violations? How is the data we collect

[1:01:18] here being sent outside of our community, we the people of Orange need to know, there are

[1:01:28] ramifications for where the state of Goes and how it's used and the impact it can have

[1:01:35] on us in the future.

[1:01:37] Thank you, Mary.

[1:01:38] There is a motion to prove this item on the floor by Mayor Pro Tempillado, a second by Council

[1:01:44] I don't remember, Bill, and ever, about $2,000, or borrowers.

[1:01:50] And thank you for everything that you just said.

[1:01:52] It did answer a lot of my questions, but I did read the staff report.

[1:01:58] And I did read the Neagream at two, and then both items, it talks about that, some of what

[1:02:05] you said, but it contradicts what you said, because it says we're going to share intelligence

[1:02:08] amongst organizations, not only those in the grant, but also state, federal and local, multi-agency, I think it's as multi-gerestictional, multiple times in both the agreement and the staff report.

[1:02:22] So, I was just a little confused about that and who is the actual lead agency if there is one, or are you saying that the really isn't a lead agency other than the Riverside Sheriff's Department as the fiscal agent and everyone is running their own operations.

[1:02:38] That's where I got really tripped up.

[1:02:41] That's correct.

[1:02:41] The second way you put it.

[1:02:43] So, Riversides, the other recipient of the grant.

[1:02:47] And that is the extent of their involvement in the investigative side of this.

[1:02:50] They provide money to us.

[1:02:52] We conduct our own investigations and all we provide to the grant recipient is statistical data.

[1:02:57] We made this many arrests.

[1:02:59] We seized this many drugs.

[1:03:00] We seized this many guns.

[1:03:01] We arrested two felonies and we don't provide immigration stat.

[1:03:06] We don't provide anything different than what we do on every other arrest that we make every single day.

[1:03:12] It's just a statistical data, there's no immigration information.

[1:03:15] We don't even ask that, so we don't have that to give them.

[1:03:18] It's okay, it's just me, you don't have to be nervous.

[1:03:20] I do want a lot of people like me who are like, what is this?

[1:03:24] And so the clarification is really, really important for the community who's looking at this

[1:03:29] and jumping to conclusions, so it's really helpful to understand exactly what this is getting to.

[1:03:36] And when it says multi-jure sectional and multiple agencies and local state and fed, what does that mean?

[1:03:42] So it could be, it could mean simply as our normal FBI reporting.

[1:03:47] Yes.

[1:03:48] Okay.

[1:03:49] The information sharing with other agencies, it's no different than what we already do.

[1:03:53] If we have an investigation that carries into another city, like Costa Mesa, who's always a,

[1:03:57] also a grant recipient on this, we would call them to notify them that we're in the area,

[1:04:03] or that, it's not a network where we're having crossover on cases or we're doing multi-agency

[1:04:10] investigations unless something led us to something like that, we're not bringing in other

[1:04:17] agencies into our investigations.

[1:04:19] Well, and that also explained the waterways, which I didn't quite understand because we don't

[1:04:23] have those necessarily.

[1:04:26] But the city manager also let me know that this is a program that have

[1:04:30] in place in 2005 that you could have gone after funds for.

[1:04:35] So I think you answered that question

[1:04:37] at the reason you went after now

[1:04:38] is because of the just kind of turning over

[1:04:42] every sort of speak stone to find other funding opportunities.

[1:04:47] That and we have an exceptional unit

[1:04:49] who has done a lot of good work recently

[1:04:52] in the last couple of years

[1:04:53] and we're recognized for that

[1:04:54] and basically recruited us into this program

[1:04:56] or said hey, if you guys want to apply for this,

[1:04:59] you guys are a little...

[1:05:01] Okay. And then, again, the question about the operations. When it talks about multi-jure-stictional operations, it's not necessarily talking about that someone above OPD is going to be dictating to our officers and our units about what they want to do. It might be something that we do a joint operation on.

[1:05:24] We do joint operations, but for the purpose of this grant, we're not taking direction from anybody.

[1:05:33] Or we're not doing the purpose of this grant as not to do these multi-juristic,

[1:05:38] investigations.

[1:05:39] It's basically to fund the work that we're already doing.

[1:05:42] It's not a new project or a different task that we're taking on.

[1:05:45] It's our everyday activities.

[1:05:47] And I would just point out that while I thank you for going through all my questions, the staff report could have been a little bit more clear on that.

[1:05:56] And just it just wasn't clear enough to make give a great sense of comfort.

[1:06:00] So sorry to put you through the ringer.

[1:06:03] That's very good to hear us.

[1:06:06] Chief and I'm sorry I didn't catch your name.

[1:06:09] John.

[1:06:11] Thank you so much for clarifying all the operational things.

[1:06:13] As Councillor Barda said, when I saw this item, my bunch of bells and whistles when I was very concerned and I also reached out to our city manager and I also reached out to our county supervisor as he represents are my district and a good portion of orange and as I was reading the report as well so that it came before our board supervisor so I thought that was an opportunity to speak to him about it.

[1:06:42] So you answered a lot of the operational questions.

[1:06:44] I appreciate that.

[1:06:46] He also said he had a lot of concerns when it came forth to them as well.

[1:06:51] And once it was explained very much as you just did, that the reason for it, the money

[1:06:58] was just, as you said, the enforcement of direct drug trafficking and smuggling human trafficking

[1:07:06] as well. He felt more comfortable to vote on that issue and just talked to me through it and

[1:07:13] so I appreciate hearing from you as well and how we were to use it because I believe that's

[1:07:18] what our public needs to hear the most. As I had concerns, they have concerns and just in regards

[1:07:25] to all our data, when you say we don't share it, it's just like your regular the way you do all

[1:07:32] information is that like I explained to me a little more is that digital goes into your digital

[1:07:38] database and they cannot access your digital data how does that work so can you explain that a little

[1:07:45] more to me. As far as information sharing for the grant activities every time that we have a grant

[1:07:53] whether it's this or like our traffic grant or the OTS highway you have to provide statistical data

[1:08:01] to the grant recipient.

[1:08:03] If I'm answering your question correctly, I'll answer.

[1:08:04] But I just wanted to like, what exactly?

[1:08:06] And is it, I must, I'm assuming obviously it's digital.

[1:08:08] Are you giving names, addresses, where they lived,

[1:08:13] is it just, it was this many, and that not necessarily

[1:08:16] tying it to an individual?

[1:08:18] Correct.

[1:08:19] It's male, adult, or female, adult,

[1:08:25] arrested

[1:08:25] for this felony, and where that felony and booked at Orange County

[1:08:29] jail.

[1:08:30] OK.

[1:08:31] All right.

[1:08:32] Thank you very much.

[1:08:32] I appreciate it again. Thank you so much for clarifying this for us, because this was a very

[1:08:38] alarming to me when I read this. So thank you.

[1:08:42] That's a very Dimitri.

[1:08:44] Thank you, Mayor Chief LT. Obviously, I'll be little differences of opinions. I thought your staff

[1:08:50] report was pretty clear. It made it abundantly easy to read. I understood it. I just think

[1:08:57] the big holdup or hang up here is just the title of where the money is coming from because

[1:09:02] on 3.6, we had no problem taking a bunch of federal money for selective traffic enforcement.

[1:09:09] It was up to federal funds of up to $306,000 as opposed to the 87,000.

[1:09:17] I think Council Member Varios pointed out this has been a program around since what?

[1:09:23] 2003, 4,5 area.

[1:09:25] So it's been through multiple administrations, multiple political backgrounds and ideals.

[1:09:30] And I was really primarily founded for originally with San Diego and Imperial counties with the sole intent to purpose of keeping poison off the streets that's killing children.

[1:09:44] So, I'm going to support this 100 percent. I have no problem with it and I'm glad you guys did exactly what we as a collective body had asked multiple times was find money to fund our programs to keep officers on the street to enforce the law. Thank you.

[1:10:00] Council member Barrios. I had one more question of clarification because as I was reading through the agreement, there is a specific call to FEMA and I did not understand that.

[1:10:12] FEMA is the federal authority that provides the money to the Department of Homeland Security who then provides it to the Riverside County Sheriff's Department.

[1:10:21] Okay, all right, thank you very much.

[1:10:24] And Paltzmera Tellers.

[1:10:27] Thank you.

[1:10:30] When we got an ask for money grants, specifically for public safety, are we in the

[1:10:36] have a questioning the methods in which they were given or who gives it?

[1:10:39] I think just because it comes from a political party here is against the White House

[1:10:47] political party and so the city of Orange can't take money.

[1:10:50] I just find this a little ridiculous.

[1:10:51] You are here to fight crime where you're here to protect and serve.

[1:10:54] This is pretty simple.

[1:10:57] To question our police officers asking their motives,

[1:11:02] when I think we all know what their motives are.

[1:11:04] So fight crime and for you to come up here and

[1:11:06] spot your political beliefs and then tell us we can't accept money

[1:11:11] because of who the president is.

[1:11:13] It's pretty pompous.

[1:11:16] If they're giving us money, take it.

[1:11:18] Let's fight crime, that's what we do.

[1:11:20] And we take an oath to protect and serve.

[1:11:24] I think dividing criminals by whether they're legal or not legal.

[1:11:30] It's going down a rabbit hole.

[1:11:31] I don't think you want to go down.

[1:11:33] We are here to protect our police officers,

[1:11:35] and they are here to protect us.

[1:11:36] Thank you.

[1:11:38] Any other comments?

[1:11:40] Any questions?

[1:11:43] I will call for the vote.

[1:11:50] I'm sorry.

[1:11:50] clarify that my is on a political issue, I want to clarify when I read CBP and we know exactly

[1:11:58] what happened with individuals in Minnesota and that was CBP, that was my alarm and reading

[1:12:06] this.

[1:12:06] I'm not questioning our OPD, I have 100% faith in our orange PD and so all I want is clarification

[1:12:13] on this because that is alarming to me and it's insulting to me as well and that is what

[1:12:18] clarification was and there was no way that I would ever not want to give them their tools,

[1:12:23] but I want it explanations and understand it better.

[1:12:28] That's where I just need to clarify it out.

[1:12:31] No.

[1:12:32] Excuse me.

[1:12:33] Are you finished?

[1:12:34] Tell us where I get to.

[1:12:35] I just want to clarify my position and I don't know if you're speaking to me or others, but

[1:12:40] I want to clarify why it was alarming to me and that to me is not political.

[1:12:45] It's clearly what occurred.

[1:12:47] And so, I need to carry out the government, please, wait, please.

[1:12:51] But I just want to clarify for myself and the reason we brought it forward.

[1:12:55] Again, I would never question you on that.

[1:12:57] I just want clarification.

[1:12:59] So, and I always want to be able to give you your tools.

[1:13:03] So, thank you.

[1:13:05] All right.

[1:13:06] I don't want to get into a political debate, but child's minute total is your...

[1:13:10] But you did question them.

[1:13:12] And you're questioning their motives because they took money from the federal government,

[1:13:15] which by the way, Governor Newsom's office approved us.

[1:13:20] So there's nothing political here, but when the lady comes up and says,

[1:13:24] I'm here for whatever their political operation is called

[1:13:27] indivisible.

[1:13:29] And she's saying, we are against this because of this.

[1:13:32] And then you're coming out and asking, well, do you do this and do

[1:13:35] that?

[1:13:36] Then we're questioning the motives in which our own police officers

[1:13:40] are, we're doubting their motives on the street.

[1:13:43] That's not correct.

[1:13:44] We are here to protect and serve our community, not based on who is citizen and who is not a citizen.

[1:13:50] They've explained that at Nalvin as the Chief of Said to us,

[1:13:53] but we keep bringing up these problems because one person and one group of people

[1:13:59] can find a conspiracy and everything.

[1:14:01] We need to protect our cops and support them.

[1:14:05] And I don't care who they voted for or what the money is coming from.

[1:14:08] We need money.

[1:14:09] We told them to go out and get it and they got it.

[1:14:11] The question in the method in which they got it and where they got it from is this.

[1:14:16] Protect our police.

[1:14:17] That's the call for the vote.

[1:14:20] Mayor Pro Tim Dullito has made a motion.

[1:14:22] Councilmember Gillen Amherst, seconded it to approve this item.

[1:14:32] Motion is approved unanimously.

[1:14:34] I have 3.5 is agreements with the California Department of Health Care Services.

[1:14:41] and Cal Optima for a one-time inter-governmental transfer of fiscal year, 2627, Calts

[1:14:49] Mayor Bartos.

[1:14:54] I am 3.5.

[1:15:00] I just want to get there. I just have, I'm not sure who would take this, but I just wanted some clarification

[1:15:10] because there are three different organizations listed in here. There's Siemens, there's the, I'm sorry,

[1:15:17] I didn't remember my laptop, so I don't have everything with me. So there's GenTech, there's Siemens,

[1:15:26] And then I think there's a third one, I'm almost sure there's a third one.

[1:15:30] So 3.5 is Caloptima, which are the agreements with the Department of Health Care Services.

[1:15:39] Yep.

[1:15:40] Stuff he had called.

[1:15:43] The reason I wanted to ask about this one is because of the way, not only do we get reimburse

[1:15:48] for funds on this, but the reimbursement was actually better in terms of what we could get back

[1:15:54] once we went out and we went after this funds.

[1:15:57] So with that in future, be an argument towards expanding the AO program,

[1:16:04] to increase our ability to go get more of those calls for future reimbursements.

[1:16:09] Am I making, I hope I'm making sense.

[1:16:12] I believe you are, if I'm answering this correctly, answer that as yes.

[1:16:17] Because it's based off of simply put, these are our monies that are reimbursed,

[1:16:23] federal money that's reimbursed that we obtained to offset unrecovered medical ambulance service

[1:16:35] cost. So simply put I could give you an overview of actually what exactly this program is

[1:16:41] and it might explain it a little bit better. I think the staff report did that well. I was just

[1:16:46] trying to get out that there seemed to be a significant return on investment. There is the reason being

[1:16:52] is because half of the monies that are supposed to be reimbursed are done by the state

[1:16:57] and the other half is federal, but in order to access the federal funds, that we yet

[1:17:02] we have to front the money and then it comes back, because that makes sense.

[1:17:06] Yes.

[1:17:06] The state doesn't front the money for us, so we have to do it ourselves.

[1:17:09] Okay, that was all I wanted to clarify.

[1:17:11] Thank you very much.

[1:17:13] There's a motion from Calcimary Dimitra, a segment from Calcimary Good Terrace to approve

[1:17:17] this item. Thank you chief for accessing federal funding for orange. Thank you. Any other further

[1:17:26] discussion on this item? Questions I'll call for the vote.

[1:17:38] If that's approved unanimously,

[1:17:42] next is item 3.8, which is First Amendment to agreement with Siemens Industry Incorporated

[1:17:50] for a maintenance of surveillance cameras, hardware, infrastructure, and licensing, supporting the

[1:17:56] cities, existing genotech, security, platform, Councilmember, barrios.

[1:18:04] So I think you already heard the prairie to that.

[1:18:06] So it was just confusing where we were going with this.

[1:18:09] There were three different companies involved, but it sounds like you're in the middle of the

[1:18:12] chairman.

[1:18:14] Correct.

[1:18:15] We are in the middle of developing an RFP, but our existing contract with Siemens will expire

[1:18:20] in September and we don't anticipate we will be prepared with the results from the RFP and contract negotiation.

[1:18:27] So it's essentially a bridge contract to get us through the RFP process with Siemens.

[1:18:32] Okay.

[1:18:32] We probably will be over-complicated the staff report with the background.

[1:18:35] Yeah, there was a lot.

[1:18:37] So, and then just within terms of the infrastructure and what we're managing with the Gentech Security Program platform.

[1:18:44] Yeah, so it's all of the city's closer to TV cameras, so in parks and on this campus and the library and the police department

[1:18:52] It's all controlled internally here. It doesn't ever leave the property as well as all the access control doors and readers

[1:18:59] So it's all of that.

[1:19:01] Right, okay, so that was what I was trying to get out to thank you very much

[1:19:08] Okay, we have a motion from Councilmember Gill and Hammer, a second from Councilmember Gutierrez to approve this item, any further discussion?

[1:19:16] Please vote.

[1:19:24] That is approved unanimously.

[1:19:27] There's one more item 310, which is, it's that.

[1:19:40] 310 is an award of contract to ultimate maintenance services, a corporate for custodial services for city facilities.

[1:19:47] We had a public speaker, is that Mr. Peterson, Mr. Peterson, you're up. You do have three minutes.

[1:19:57] Good evening, again. This will be quick.

[1:20:00] I'm a big fan of the added services that this program would bring for the part-time quarter

[1:20:08] at the garage and the frequency increase at the public library. I'm even a bigger fan of fiscal responsibility.

[1:20:19] What I'm not a fan of is the over $224,000, this is going to cost with 204,000 coming from the general fund,

[1:20:27] another 19 plus coming from the water fund.

[1:20:32] I'm even less of a fan of the same while the general fund appropriation increases the expenditure

[1:20:39] budget for custodial services.

[1:20:42] The city is currently experiencing salary and benefits savings associated with vacant positions

[1:20:47] that are projected to offset.

[1:20:50] Okay, you guys have been doing all the heavy lifting, I say this all the time, saving money.

[1:20:57] And now we're going to take money that you guys worked, your bucks off to save and we're

[1:21:01] going to spend it.

[1:21:03] I'll bet in 30 minutes, any one of us could sit with that budget and shave off a little bit

[1:21:09] here, a little bit there, frequencies of services and shave off with this added service

[1:21:14] and cost of doing business increase is going to take.

[1:21:18] As a city, we need to be demanding that every department land their numbers, playing

[1:21:26] in simple.

[1:21:28] We don't save just so we can spend it, someone else's money somewhere else.

[1:21:33] Either we're in this to save money and get through it or all we're doing is shuffling the

[1:21:39] cards and spending money over and over and over again.

[1:21:43] Thank you.

[1:21:44] Thank you, Mr. Petersen.

[1:21:47] We'll bring it back to the Council, Council Mayor Bars.

[1:21:51] This was the one that I had missed, and I was glad to see that there was additional services

[1:21:56] put in for the parking structure, because that has been a source of major concern for residents

[1:22:03] and different businesses who are now directing people to park over there.

[1:22:07] It called out specifically the parking revenue that we're already getting from what's

[1:22:12] happening in Old Town is not for all of those expenses of that part of the adding on that

[1:22:18] particular,

[1:22:21] because that is that the parking garage has been such a huge problem.

[1:22:26] So, Mayor members of the council, the parking revenue portion will be specifically to pay

[1:22:30] for the parking structure portion of the contract.

[1:22:34] So that's not coming out.

[1:22:35] It just was included that it was all coming out of there.

[1:22:38] Okay.

[1:22:40] That was my specific question.

[1:22:43] How's it been, we're going to go in there.

[1:22:48] Chris, let's go with questions.

[1:22:50] I saw each section in the standards that we're going to hold them to, who on our team confirms

[1:22:57] that they're executing those standards, I guess, first question.

[1:23:00] So I'm going to turn it over to our field services manager, Matt Lorenzant, who is that person

[1:23:05] who will be checking that and so on.

[1:23:08] In addition to myself, we have a lead custodian that oversees the work that's performed

[1:23:13] by the contractor. They have a daily checklist that they review and in addition to that,

[1:23:19] we have a monthly meeting with our vendor and we address certain discrepancies that we see.

[1:23:25] I see in each section there's our allocation for day-porters for various roles. What's the total

[1:23:32] hours that we're going to be paying for? Do you have that? And then how does that can pay to our existing

[1:23:37] as a competitor existing service contract in terms of dollars per hour? The day-porters you

[1:23:41] refering to the day board at the parking structure or total contract. Okay so there's two that are proposed

[1:23:47] the ones at PD currently working eight hours a day Monday through Friday and then the one at the

[1:23:52] parking structure is part time for hours a day five to seven days a week. If we're to back up and look at

[1:24:00] the total hours we're paying for in this custodial contract I'm not sure if you have that information

[1:24:05] but what is the total hours of service we're getting across the city? What is the dollars per hour

[1:24:11] paying, and how does that compare to the existing country?

[1:24:14] So I'm going to jump in on this one.

[1:24:17] So this is a service contract.

[1:24:18] And the way that the contractor proposes is a lump sum cost

[1:24:22] with the exception of the day-porters and with the exception of what

[1:24:26] I'll call the two allocard items that we have.

[1:24:29] So the day-porters provides an ancillary or additional layer

[1:24:33] of coverage to the staff that then comes in and performs.

[1:24:37] I'll call it the regular routine practices.

[1:24:39] It's not necessarily, it's based on completeness or task, but it's not based on an hourly

[1:24:46] De-markation of those tasks to the contractor. It's like a piece of work contract. Right. It is not that type of contract

[1:24:54] Got it. How does that compare to our previous contract? So it's a 17%

[1:25:00] The last time we bid it out in 2021. Okay. And then what is the percentage increase in workload or task to this contract from the previous one?

[1:25:12] So it is exactly the same scope of work as we have now, which is actually a reduced scope of work that we undertook as part of the budget reductions over the last few years. The only additional scope is the parking structure and the additional vacuuming of the library.

[1:25:27] Okay, my last question is, the previous contract we had, when did that start, how many

[1:25:33] years did it go for and did it have an escalation clause in it?

[1:25:38] Yeah, it started in 2021 and it was good for the first three years with no increase and in

[1:25:43] the subsequent years to that, the following two years, had a cap of 2% CPI and this one follows

[1:25:50] a very similar model to that.

[1:25:53] Got it.

[1:25:54] Thank you.

[1:25:57] How's it going to make you sure real quick question? A couple quick questions actually. So other than

[1:26:03] anecdotal information, is there hard data on actual need for the parking structure for cleaning? Is there

[1:26:11] reports or anything that shows that this is that it's a justifiable expenditure at this point?

[1:26:17] Yes, as part of our agreement with MetroLink, we're required to provide daily inspections and that's

[1:26:27] and even to share with you at the moment in terms of that the hard data that you're looking for.

[1:26:31] Okay, but it is documented, ladies, ladies, trash here or there's this there or just trash,

[1:26:39] public urination, a lot of the issues in the stairwells that was something that

[1:26:45] and passed the day ported. Sure. Sure. And since you hit on it, which was my next question,

[1:26:51] this was a joint venture parking structure with OCT and MetroLink.

[1:26:54] So anything in the contract anywhere that says we can

[1:26:58] recoup any of that costs on cleaning or maintenance?

[1:27:02] No.

[1:27:03] They provided funding to build it.

[1:27:05] And part of the agreement is, is that we operate it and maintain it.

[1:27:10] All right.

[1:27:11] Final question is, what's the lifespan on the parking structure?

[1:27:15] It's 50 years.

[1:27:16] OK.

[1:27:17] And what were in 10 years into it?

[1:27:18] at 2019 is when we took the keys to it, essentially.

[1:27:22] All right, thank you, but that's it.

[1:27:26] So I should comment, the only thing that I saw,

[1:27:29] we were increasing in this contract versus last year was,

[1:27:33] number one, adding the parking structure,

[1:27:35] which I'm very happy about,

[1:27:37] retirees to stairwells, they're not where they should be.

[1:27:42] And with all the extra parking now going over there,

[1:27:45] I think that it's important to keep it clean

[1:27:47] and a class being paid strictly from parking revenue downtown that makes sense.

[1:27:53] Also, very happy that we're going from monthly vacuuming of the main library to weekly,

[1:28:00] which still doesn't seem adequate, but it's the right thing to do,

[1:28:05] versus monthly, clearly, that's a heavily-used library.

[1:28:09] You know, all of us have had to, you know, step up in these tough budget times.

[1:28:14] Every time I walk to my office in City Hall with people behind me, I notice the big dead

[1:28:19] Cockroach on the floor leading into my office and every time I walk by, I think, why haven't I picked that up yet?

[1:28:27] Tonight before I go home, I'm going to be sure to do that. So

[1:28:31] Is there any further questions or discussion on this item?

[1:28:37] Out of customer bonus.

[1:28:38] Any question for the city manager for, we just heard it mentioned that this is 17% increase

[1:28:45] since the last time we went out for this. Obviously we're adding services, so that's one part

[1:28:50] of it. But for the last at least year, maybe almost year and a half, there are signs all over

[1:28:57] city hall and everywhere else that employees were asked to maintain the areas and the environment

[1:29:04] that we don't share necessarily with the public in order to keep our costs down and to

[1:29:08] be mindful of costs. Is that going to change? Is this becoming like a new full service

[1:29:13] contract and we're changing that particular element?

[1:29:18] Nothing changes on City Hall's campus. Employees and part of picking up cockroaches. I've

[1:29:24] spiders in my office and termites last week that we are responsible for clean but no nothing

[1:29:30] So it's just a 17% increase. It's just the cost of doing business generally. Thank you.

[1:29:39] All right, this motion from Calcimer to major to prove this. I have seconded it. Is there any further discussion?

[1:29:47] All right, please vote.

[1:29:55] Prove unanimously. That is the consent calendar.

[1:30:00] This, uh, that I assume there were no remote speakers? No mayor. We had to not have any remote speakers. Thank you.

[1:30:09] For reports of Mayor Slater, I have nothing to see me.

[1:30:12] For some council members. Any council members?

[1:30:15] Yep, council very good to hear us.

[1:30:20] Thank you, Mayor.

[1:30:23] This past weekend, myself and council member Barrios, with the fire chief and four of our,

[1:30:34] firefighters were able to visit our sister city, our fire sister city, in the city of Gerett

[1:30:42] Darrell, and which I found out that Councilmember Dmitry and Billidoo are ahead of the foundation

[1:30:51] for the sister city that I would love for you to speak more on that too.

[1:30:54] So, we were invited out by our fighter fighters, and I am so happy that I was able to attend,

[1:31:03] and as I am a certain customer of ours is, what is, and what is as well.

[1:31:09] We were able to be there on Saturday when it was national day of firefighter day,

[1:31:13] throughout the whole country, and that's when they hold a ceremony to acknowledge all of the

[1:31:19] firefighters but also to introduce their new graduates and so that was just fantastic

[1:31:25] ceremony to participate as well as firefighter get at that open battles have been

[1:31:30] in existence for 77 years and they had a generation one firefighter sitting in the stadium

[1:31:37] was 96 years old so it was fantastic be there.

[1:31:40] In that presentation they created this video that I wanted to share with you all because

[1:31:48] I cannot tell you how grateful they are

[1:31:52] that the City of Orange is their sister city.

[1:31:55] It was just impressive to see how harsh trash

[1:31:59] they have turned into a treasure.

[1:32:02] They have taken our trucks that suppose things

[1:32:05] maybe weren't working and they've stripped out

[1:32:07] what needs to be digital and they've created great trucks

[1:32:12] that now continue running.

[1:32:13] They use the turnout clothes.

[1:32:15] You can see some of our firefighters and names

[1:32:17] on their turnout close to, they currently use to fight fires with, and they use our

[1:32:24] artillery and use ours, and things of that nature. So they're so appreciative and they

[1:32:27] want to continue obviously fostering that nation. But I wanted to share this short video

[1:32:32] that they showed at the ceremony because I think you're going to find it quite touching as

[1:33:08] well as

[1:33:13] of the state in 1949, both male status first group officially began their service, with the

[1:33:21] support of the committee at the government by a kind of corner of the General Capitol

[1:33:25] as I was became home to the Central Florida station, a symbol of safety and government

[1:33:31] of the college of the first college. In 1972, we cross borders, our sensitive department

[1:33:37] partnership with an orange partner who was formally set and international allies that

[1:33:43] has now endured for more than half a century.

[1:33:47] A sustained group, so that they need to be good.

[1:33:52] That is how the six fighter station in Africa, Canada, France, came to me.

[1:34:07] We created our training history.

[1:34:10] We've been in five fighters for a decade now, and across Mexico, according to the international

[1:34:14] But fire can kind of hope out of death and death, and that's the legacy of those who refuse to set back.

[1:34:25] What began with a group of great citizens based in danger, with more courage than resources has become an unstoppable force.

[1:34:34] Today, the institution to learn from the actions is recognized nationally and internationally,

[1:34:40] a living settlement on how to people, how will that, and how excellence is achieved.

[1:34:47] We will serve as one through all things.

[1:34:50] More and more creative, seven, seven years of living experience.

[1:35:10] So, I was very touched and, you know, they are so appreciative of our firefighters going out there,

[1:35:17] yearly to train them, and they are so proud of that they are using techniques that we hear

[1:35:23] the city of Orange have taught them, and they are really feeling that they are coming elevating their level of service

[1:35:29] because of the training and the sisterhood that they have with our city. So I was very appreciative and touched

[1:35:34] have been there and so grateful to those who started that back in 1973.

[1:35:43] Thank you, Councillor Mayer, for that wonderful presentation.

[1:35:47] I got to go to Katharau as a council member representative in the 90s, I think at that

[1:35:53] time there was only one fire station and anyway, yes, a beautiful city and they truly

[1:36:00] I do appreciate the city of orange and and I'm going down fire equipment that we've given them that they've taken very good care of and happy that they're able to use it.

[1:36:13] So thank you for that presentation.

[1:36:19] Any other council members?

[1:36:24] Yes.

[1:36:25] I'll touch upon something just because Councilwoman Gutier is made a point of the orange sister city organization.

[1:36:32] It is a formal organization. It's actually a California corporation. It doesn't rely upon any city funding.

[1:36:39] And we actually have several sister cities.

[1:36:42] We have Orange, New South Wales, Australia.

[1:36:46] And I've been able to visit that a couple of times actually.

[1:36:50] And we received several guests from there, myself and Mr. Dmitru here at the city.

[1:36:55] We have Orange, France.

[1:36:58] We have Kia-thro, of course.

[1:37:01] We have a Timoroon, New Zealand, but I haven't had contact with them formally yet, and the most

[1:37:09] interesting one is Novo Casino Moscow, which is a district of Moscow, and I guess we're

[1:37:16] a variety of reasons.

[1:37:17] We haven't had any contact with them recently, but the purpose of the sister city organization

[1:37:25] initially when it was formed, it was a lot of a student exchanges, families would host

[1:37:32] high school students and their homes from all these different countries.

[1:37:36] That's a little tougher nowadays.

[1:37:40] So we're now focusing the efforts more on more economic development and also providing

[1:37:48] funding to our fire department to help them with these training programs that they do

[1:37:54] with that key or throw.

[1:37:56] And that's all.

[1:37:57] Thank you, Mayor of Pro Tem.

[1:38:00] I'm going to go outside to meet you.

[1:38:01] Got such a lot of real quick, too.

[1:38:04] So I'm glad you went.

[1:38:05] It's a wonderful place.

[1:38:06] I've been down there twice now.

[1:38:10] I'll have you.

[1:38:13] Oh, yeah.

[1:38:15] So what's really interesting is earlier,

[1:38:17] we had that discussion on the flock cameras.

[1:38:20] And one of the really phenomenal things

[1:38:23] have established there is they have this fusion center for lack of a better phrase if you

[1:38:28] got to take a tour of it where they're the safest state in the country of Mexico because

[1:38:35] of their integrated policing in the way they use technology, use those different tools in order

[1:38:44] to solve crimes quickly as well as a number of other things. But what I was most impressed with

[1:38:50] Every time I've been down there is really the resourcefulness

[1:38:54] of the members of the fire department,

[1:38:59] especially a mechanic.

[1:39:01] I was really just taken back.

[1:39:03] There was one guy basically working in a yard,

[1:39:06] fixing everything.

[1:39:08] And it was really impressive to see

[1:39:11] for those of us that were 80s kids, you'll understand this.

[1:39:16] How he would just m'giver everything.

[1:39:18] You know, you give him a paper clip, a banana peel and some screwdriver, and he had a fire engine running.

[1:39:25] And while I was there, I was fortunate.

[1:39:30] We were all gathered for one of the nights for dinner.

[1:39:34] And they actually had a swift water rescue incident that was occurring.

[1:39:37] It was alive on their television.

[1:39:39] And all of us were looking at the same thing, watching one of our old trucks there.

[1:39:44] and then the aerial beam in a negative position, which was like, what are they doing?

[1:39:51] But it was successful and took a great deal of pride of recognizing almost everyone of the

[1:39:57] firefighters that were out there scooping people out of this little...

[1:40:00] River, knowing that our guys were the ones that had just trained them on exactly that duty earlier

[1:40:07] that day. So it was really some special to see. And then to see the pride on our fire department

[1:40:13] members that they had a hand in through their experience, through their teaching of saving lives

[1:40:19] in another country. And I think that's one of the most important things. I've also oddly enough

[1:40:23] been to Iran's France by accident, got on the wrong train and landed there and then realized

[1:40:30] this is a sister city and they actually a really cool item is they actually have still

[1:40:36] have a Roman Colosseum that's intact there.

[1:40:39] That was built in those days and it is phenomenal place to go tour and for a vacation.

[1:40:47] So thank you.

[1:40:51] Yes, I was forgetting and I, how can I forget?

[1:40:55] I would like to invite the community to our ground, breaking ceremony this Thursday at Grahal

[1:40:59] the Park for our, our so-needed skate parks. So, I hope you can all be there. It's at 530 pm.

[1:41:07] If I'm not mistaken. Yes, it's Thursday. I thought it was 530.

[1:41:15] I'm going to check that because maybe I'm saying that one time.

[1:41:18] But it is Thursday, is it for today?

[1:41:21] Okay, well degrees, I'm better show up at the right time.

[1:41:23] For 30, sorry.

[1:41:26] So I just want to invite the community.

[1:41:27] I think it's well overdue, so I am excited.

[1:41:33] I hope to see the contenders out there and the skating community

[1:41:36] and my council member colleagues as well.

[1:41:39] So I just want to make sure I invite everybody.

[1:41:42] Just clarification for a clock.

[1:41:45] Now it's a four clock.

[1:41:47] Four clock.

[1:41:48] Oh, gosh.

[1:41:49] I don't know how to have this.

[1:41:50] I have to rush.

[1:41:51] All right.

[1:41:51] Thank you.

[1:41:54] All right.

[1:41:55] Anyone else?

[1:41:57] City Clerk, it could ask me to make a couple of quick announcements.

[1:42:01] We have some board's permissions and committees with vacancies currently on them.

[1:42:06] We have one on the audit advisory committee.

[1:42:08] committee, we have one vacancy on the CDBG committee, is that going to be the case still, okay?

[1:42:17] Two vacancies on the design review committee, two vacancies on the investment advisory committee,

[1:42:22] which has been the toughest to fill, but I hear that we have some applications coming in,

[1:42:28] and one vacancy on the part plane and community events commission.

[1:42:33] Any other council reports?

[1:42:37] All right.

[1:42:37] Moving on.

[1:42:39] Any A.B. 1, 2, 3, 4 reports from council members.

[1:42:45] Seeing none.

[1:42:46] Sports from boards, committees, and commissions.

[1:42:50] A point much of the community development block grant program committee.

[1:42:53] If any members of the public group participate through Zoom, wish to address the council, please raise your hand.

[1:42:59] If you're calling any of these press star nine to raise your hand,

[1:43:02] we will hear in person speakers first, move on to most speakers if you're a

[1:43:06] participant in the public and city clerk. We'll announce when your three

[1:43:09] minutes are up and then you will be muted.

[1:43:14] So basically the this evening, James

[1:43:18] Kushan, who's council member, Rios is represented on the Arts Commission,

[1:43:22] is asked to move over to the CDBG committee. And as also as her representative,

[1:43:30] of James Kushanai, apparently you would like to say a few words?

[1:43:48] Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor,

[1:43:51] Protem members of Council, cities first responders

[1:43:54] and my fellow citizens would like to thank you

[1:43:57] for the time to speak tonight.

[1:44:00] When it came time to make my next move in my personal life,

[1:44:05] my professional life, and we made a decision

[1:44:08] to start the new foundation to serve the city in a new way.

[1:44:13] It became apparent that there were going to be a lot of conflicts

[1:44:15] of interest with my service to the city on the Parks Commission.

[1:44:19] And when I spoke with Council Member Barrio,

[1:44:21] she made the recommendation to join the Community Development

[1:44:26] Block Grant Committee.

[1:44:29] And when I looked into it, I thought that it was a perfect match

[1:44:34] me have been grown up in a economically depressed household. I understand the idea of what it's

[1:44:43] like to deal with the challenges of economics and dealing with low-income situations.

[1:44:54] So I look forward to using my real life experience should the council decide to confirm me.

[1:45:00] To continue to serve the residents of Orange and that capacity as well as with my new professional endeavor. So I will leave it to the discretion of council. And I thank you for the time in. I thank you for the privilege to serve on the part planning committee. Thank you.

[1:45:15] Thank you, James.

[1:45:17] Motion from Council Member Bios, second from Council Member Gill and Hammer, any other discussion?

[1:45:24] Please vote.

[1:45:33] Provenously.

[1:45:35] Thank you for your service on a parse commission, Mr. Cushion.

[1:45:38] Welcome to the CDBG committee.

[1:45:45] Okay.

[1:45:45] Report from City Manager.

[1:45:48] Nothing to report.

[1:45:49] I'm glad it's not my birthday.

[1:45:54] Way to time till then.

[1:45:56] All right, moving on, administrative reports, 9.1, we're going to be related to the restoration

[1:46:02] and future reconvenced to the city of approximately 67.7 acre former, Sully Miller property

[1:46:09] is 6145, East San Diego Canyon Road, Repermanent Public Open Space.

[1:46:16] Can we any members of the public or participate through Zoom, wish to address the Council,

[1:46:20] please raise your hand if you were calling in, please press star 9 through Raise your hand.

[1:46:25] We'll hear in-person speakers first and then move on, speakers,

[1:46:33] if you are participating remotely

[1:46:34] the City Clerk will announce when your three minutes are up and then you will be muted.

[1:46:43] I just see the manager is there.

[1:46:46] I have a staff report if you'd like one.

[1:46:48] If not, I think we should have one.

[1:46:50] Thank you very much for the very thorough staff report already, but please, please.

[1:46:56] to you.

[1:46:58] No, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

[1:47:00] Members of the Council.

[1:47:01] Tonight represents an important step in what has been a very long story of the

[1:47:06] Sully Miller property.

[1:47:07] For decades, this property has been subject to development proposals, commutative

[1:47:11] rate, referenda, and litigation.

[1:47:14] Tonight, we have an opportunity to begin writing a very different ending, one centered

[1:47:18] on restoration, preservation, and ultimately public permanent open space.

[1:47:24] I want to briefly walk through what the agreement's accomplish, how the process would work and importantly what they do not approve tonight.

[1:47:33] Jack, next slide, please.

[1:47:35] So there are two agreements before the city council.

[1:47:37] The first establishes the pathway under which approximately 67 acres could ultimately be conveyed to the city.

[1:47:45] The second establishes environmental responsibilities and demunification, insurance, and other protections associated with the future conveyance.

[1:47:55] The most important part is that the city is not taking ownership of the property tonight.

[1:48:01] The city council is also not improving an indefo, a grading plan, a reclamation plan, an operating plan, or future regulatory permit.

[1:48:10] Tonight, nearly establishes the contractual pathway that allows the process to move forward

[1:48:16] while preserving the regulatory and environmental view processes that remain ahead.

[1:48:24] So this slide puts tonight in context.

[1:48:27] Mining in aggregate operations have occurred from much of the last century, since then the

[1:48:32] property has been subject to several significant residential development proposals.

[1:48:37] fieldstone proposed 189 homes.

[1:48:40] Rio Santiago proposed 395 units.

[1:48:44] The trails project proposed 128 units.

[1:48:48] Each generated substantial community discussion,

[1:48:51] and in some cases referenda and litigation.

[1:48:54] In 2025, the city negotiated a framework

[1:48:57] that created a fundamentally different possibility.

[1:49:01] Instead of continuing the decades long debate

[1:49:03] over development of this property,

[1:49:05] We now have an opportunity to move forward with the restoration, preservation, and ultimately public ownership.

[1:49:15] And Sully Miller doesn't stand alone.

[1:49:17] We have approximately 14 acres associated with the Chandler Hurwitz property.

[1:49:23] Approximately 30 acres that we acquired through Milan in a dedicated earlier this year,

[1:49:30] and then after this potentially another 67 acres through this transaction.

[1:49:34] taken together that represents approximately 112 acres of public open space preservation along the Santiago Creek corridor.

[1:49:44] That is significant.

[1:49:46] It represents an opportunity to preserve a substantial amount of land and build upon the open space vision that the community has pursued for decades.

[1:49:58] So there's a clear path forward.

[1:50:00] We get there. First, landify would seek to acquire the property from Milan. The appropriate regulatory

[1:50:07] agencies would continue their work and establish the requirements that apply to the site.

[1:50:12] Landify would then undertake the indefo grading and site preparation. Only after the contractual

[1:50:18] closing conditions have been satisfied with the property be conveyed to the city. This is expected

[1:50:25] to be a multi-year process.

[1:50:27] Tonight doesn't complete the process.

[1:50:29] It just creates the pathway that allows us to begin.

[1:50:34] The regulatory process is important,

[1:50:36] and it continues independently

[1:50:38] from the agreements before Council tonight.

[1:50:41] I want to briefly note that since the preparation

[1:50:43] of the staff report, we have received correspondence

[1:50:46] from the LEA and the Water Board.

[1:50:48] That correspondence was received after the report was

[1:50:52] finalized and after the report had gone out to print.

[1:50:57] The correspondence provides additional information regarding the regulatory work that remains

[1:51:02] and will help inform the requirements of the site.

[1:51:05] Importantly, it does not change the nature of the action before city council tonight.

[1:51:11] Again, the council is not approving the indefo, the grading plan, a reclamation plan for future permits.

[1:51:17] those processes remain ahead and will continue through the appropriate agencies.

[1:51:23] All of the applicable regulatory permitting environmental review requirements do remain in place.

[1:51:31] Because this is a complex multi-year process, city staff has spent considerable time making sure the transaction is structured to protect the city.

[1:51:41] The simplest way to think about it is landfiles the property while the work is being performed.

[1:51:46] Before the city takes ownership, I'll applicable environmental and geotechnical requirements must be addressed.

[1:51:54] The required approvals must be obtained, grading completed and certified, and the contractual closing conditions must be satisfied.

[1:52:02] The agreements also provide for pollution, legal liability, insurance, and a phased reclamation security.

[1:52:09] The work comes first and city ownership comes later.

[1:52:14] I don't want to repeat all the protections, but I do want to emphasize a few.

[1:52:18] The independent, again, the independent regulatory processes remain in place.

[1:52:23] The city does not take ownership until the closing conditions are satisfied, and each

[1:52:28] grading phase is backed by the reclamation security.

[1:52:32] So if the transaction is successfully completed, the property would then be conveyed to

[1:52:37] the city for permanent public open space purposes.

[1:52:40] taking together these provisions are intended to protect the city while providing a pathway to the permanent preservation.

[1:52:51] While the regulatory and restoration work proceeds, we have time to thoroughly consider the future of the property.

[1:52:58] I don't think city staff should do this alone.

[1:53:00] We need to engage the surrounding neighborhoods, orange park acres, trail and equestrian users, environmental organizations.

[1:53:08] There are a number of possibilities to evaluate over time, including trails, equestrian uses

[1:53:14] habitat restoration, environmental education, passive recreation, scenic resources, etc.

[1:53:22] We will have the time to pursue the grants, the technical assistance, the partnerships,

[1:53:27] and the philanthropic resources.

[1:53:30] So the goal isn't simply to acquire the 67 acres.

[1:53:33] it's to thoughtfully plan for and responsibly,

[1:53:37] responsibly, steward this land for future generations.

[1:53:42] I'll close with where I started.

[1:53:43] Again, the Soling Miller property has been debated

[1:53:45] in this community for decades.

[1:53:47] There have been development proposals,

[1:53:49] referenda, litigation, considerable uncertainty

[1:53:53] about what would ultimately happen here.

[1:53:56] Tonight does not complete that process.

[1:53:58] There is significant work ahead,

[1:54:00] but tonight gives us an opportunity to move forward

[1:54:03] in a fundamentally different direction.

[1:54:05] Restoration, preservation, and public ownership.

[1:54:09] And if successful, combined with the other efforts,

[1:54:13] this would represent approximately 112 acres

[1:54:16] of new public open space along Santiago Creek.

[1:54:19] That's an important step in a vision

[1:54:22] that has been decades in the making.

[1:54:24] With that, staff recommends approval

[1:54:26] of the agreements and more available for any questions

[1:54:28] at UF.

[1:54:29] Thank you, City Manager. Any questions? We have to do us in public speakers.

[1:54:40] Any questions

[1:54:40] of before we go to public speakers?

[1:54:45] All right. We'll begin with Reggie Mendecas, followed

[1:54:49] by Laurel Maldonado.

[1:54:50] I

[1:54:59] support this, which is...

[1:55:00] It's been about 23 years in the making. It's a good use of a long-term problem property and gets it

[1:55:10] to a point where everybody can enjoy it. So this is the beginning of a pathway to making this

[1:55:18] into a really wonderful restoration of a natural habitat. So strongly support this. Thank you.

[1:55:26] I think you're Reggie, there is a motion on the floor by Councilmember Gillen Hammer, whose district

[1:55:33] this is in, I have seconded it.

[1:55:35] Next speaker is Laurel Maldonado followed by Drew Whiteford.

[1:55:46] Good evening, Mayor and Council members.

[1:55:50] The one thing that I should be talking about is Sequel, but someone else will talk about that.

[1:55:54] So I'll set that aside.

[1:55:57] And let's talk about why signing this agreement tonight might be a little premature that

[1:56:01] its own terms, financially, legally, and procedurally.

[1:56:06] Start with sequencing.

[1:56:07] The stipulated notice in order is still open.

[1:56:10] Just six days ago, the regional waterboard

[1:56:12] found arsenic contamination in four stockpiles

[1:56:15] that must be removed and gave Milan

[1:56:17] until October to submit a work plan.

[1:56:20] The local and forced legency reviewed

[1:56:22] land-of-ise-owned draft operating plan

[1:56:24] and called it, in its words, not complete or correct.

[1:56:28] There's an unresolved cease-intices proceeding

[1:56:30] on this property right now, stemming from stockpiles being moved without authorization earlier

[1:56:35] this year. None of that is completely resolved. We are being asked to sign to binding

[1:56:40] transfer agreement before regulatory foundation, it depends on even exists. Next, look

[1:56:46] at financial exposure. The pollution liability policy Milan is required to obtain caps at $3

[1:56:52] million per claim and in the aggregate. Given what we know now, our Senate across the stock

[1:56:58] in the subgrade down 51 feet, and abandoned well, we haven't even located, it's 3 million

[1:57:04] actually enough to cover a serious cleanup event. Nobody in this room can answer that tonight,

[1:57:09] and that should concern us, because the payment allocates shortfall based on who caused it,

[1:57:15] which is exactly the kind of dispute that ends up in litigation, not resolved by policy.

[1:57:20] Then there's the deadline pressure. Your own staff report stays landify, has told the city,

[1:57:25] It's participation, it's participation is time sensitive and it's only committed to pursuing

[1:57:30] this through the end of the year. That's not a reason to sign faster. That's a reason to slow down.

[1:57:35] When one party to a multi-year multi-million dollar transaction is the one setting the clock,

[1:57:41] the other party, you, the city should not be negotiating against the clock.

[1:57:45] And consider what happens if this doesn't work. If the project becomes commercially

[1:57:49] feasible landify can walk. The city can get no property and taxpayers have spent years of

[1:57:55] staff and legal time on an agreement that produced nothing. The staff report says the city

[1:57:59] is in obligated to accept an incomplete site but it doesn't tell us what happens to the public

[1:58:04] trust in the momentum we've built in the community if this falls apart midstream. Finally,

[1:58:09] this property is a 20-year history of rushed decisions that didn't hold up. Approvals that were

[1:58:19] one wind. The history that should teach us one lesson. Get the sequencing, right? Resolve

[1:58:24] the SNL, confirm the insurance, is adequate, and then bring it back. I'm not asking

[1:58:30] you to abandon this. I'm not saying that I don't support it. I'm asking you to wait until

[1:58:35] the ground under it is actually solid. Thank you.

[1:58:39] Thank you.

[1:58:39] Thank you, Laurel, following Drew is Sherry Pintah.

[1:58:44] Mayor and City Council members, I'm asking you to look more closely at the staff's findings

[1:58:51] that Secret does not apply to tonight's agreement.

[1:58:57] The city's position is that this is just a contract, a framework for future transfer and

[1:59:05] that the real environment decisions come later, but an agreement that commits to the city

[1:59:11] to a definite course of action is exactly what SQL is designed to catch, and this one does.

[1:59:21] Our own staff report says if landify performs and the closing conditions are met, the

[1:59:29] city will be contractually obligated to accept the property.

[1:59:34] No second vote.

[1:59:39] This real commitment is made tonight and that the commitment to the specific physical outcome

[1:59:48] and IDFO, nearly a million cubic yards of new fill, stockpiles graded to 50 feet.

[1:59:56] This site is currently zoned sound and gravel.

[2:00:00] Not open space. The county's own LEA has told the applicant, in writing, the operation plan must explain

[2:00:10] how the site gets re-zoned. A re-zoned doesn't happen by accident, and it fits in tonight's

[2:00:20] environmental review at all.

[2:00:24] That expectation staff is reliant on requires certainly.

[2:00:29] Certainly that there is no possible possibility of subspecific effort in

[2:00:38] the prefix.

[2:00:39] Sorry, I don't think that's a certainty exists.

[2:00:43] The original waterboard found arsenic contamination in the stockpiles and the

[2:00:50] to be removed from the property of the state, now, on Omaha, founded that recreational adult

[2:00:57] children and outdoor workers all exceed acceptable health risk thresholds.

[2:01:03] There's an abandoned well, unlocated, and our staff report says testing is still underway

[2:01:10] and the scope of the work required hasn't been finalized.

[2:01:14] I support turning the property into open space.

[2:01:19] That's not what's in dispute.

[2:01:21] What I am asking is that we get there through review, not around it.

[2:01:30] So before making a no-sequa finding tonight,

[2:01:34] I asked the city attorney to answer one question on the record.

[2:01:39] What is the legal basis for concluding that the rezone, the grading and the fill placement,

[2:01:48] agreement, is built around our reasonable foreseeable consequences and approve it tonight?

[2:01:57] Thank you, Mr. White.

[2:01:59] Please be good.

[2:02:01] Other.

[2:02:06] Sherry, after that, does Theresa Sears?

[2:02:12] My name is Sherry Hart-Pantaya.

[2:02:14] I'm a multi-generational resident of Orange Park acres.

[2:02:17] And the current president of the Orange Park Association.

[2:02:21] Thank you, Mayor Slater, and Councilful for this opportunity to speak on behalf of the Orange Park Association

[2:02:27] to formally express our support, the Gender Item 9.1, regarding the agreements related to the restoration and future conveyance of the property to the city for permanent public open space.

[2:02:40] We understand that all the entities involved are working closely together with the LEA in developing a plan to best serve our community.

[2:02:47] The OPA plan promotes the Santiago Green Belt Plan,

[2:02:53] phasing out of the gravel pit operations along Santiago Creek

[2:02:56] and its restoration and the preservation of Santiago Creek.

[2:03:01] The agreements before the city council are in alignment with the OPA plan.

[2:03:07] This effort by the minute entities involved is a remarkable opportunity

[2:03:10] to fulfill many things, advancing the city of Orange General Plan

[2:03:16] long-term open space vision, serving future generations, creating a lasting public benefit,

[2:03:24] and adding significant value to the world character of the surrounding area.

[2:03:30] Repreciate the hard work and painstaking effort by all parties involved to establish a path

[2:03:36] to transform the cellular property into permanent open space under city ownership.

[2:03:41] The Orange Park Association supports the recommended action and urges the City Council to approve them.

[2:03:49] Thank you again.

[2:03:50] Thank you, Sherry, and then Theresa Sears.

[2:04:01] Good evening, Council.

[2:04:03] Mayor, I appreciate the opportunity.

[2:04:06] I have lived in Orange for half my life.

[2:04:09] I won't tell you what that number is, but more than half my life.

[2:04:16] I am a resident of Orange.

[2:04:18] So I want that to be known.

[2:04:20] I live in Orange and I've always lived.

[2:04:22] My property has always been in the city.

[2:04:27] So it's not often that the stars align in favor of the public good,

[2:04:34] especially when you have competing interests involved.

[2:04:38] At the same time, it's not uncommon when trying to work

[2:04:41] through complicated deals like this to have obstacles to overcome.

[2:04:46] Any important conservation effort, and I know them, saving a farm rent, banning rent,

[2:04:55] Coyote Hills, the herwitz site, stopping the sprawl out into the door.

[2:05:01] The 20,000 acres that we now know as the Irvine Ranch open space.

[2:05:08] All of those have had challenges, twists, and turns. Lots of stories can go with that.

[2:05:15] As Reggie would know, stopping the sale of the Orange County Fairgrounds. That is another example.

[2:05:21] So, there is no playbook, there is no class, there is no YouTube video that explains how to achieve success.

[2:05:30] Okay, this kind of work is very messy, it's not often understood by the public.

[2:05:34] It's compound complex and at times, I can tell you, it requires the willingness, the collaboration, and smart people working together for the common good.

[2:05:45] I point to sound to simply say that I am pleased with the effort of the city, landify, and

[2:05:52] malign, and the effort they have put forth to preserve Sully Miller as in V. And visioned

[2:05:58] in the San Diego Creek Greenville plan, the OPA plan, and the East Norens plan. That is not

[2:06:04] a simple task based on the history of Sully Miller, some of it, a very tortured history.

[2:06:10] I can attest about that being said, one step at a time and I believe we will achieve our mutual goals.

[2:06:20] I'm encouraged that the entities are working together with the regulatory agencies to find solutions

[2:06:25] and more confident that we will succeed.

[2:06:29] My suggestion is to hold tight, keep going, support our city manager and his leadership.

[2:06:34] He has done an excellent job, have faith, be creative, stay positive, and focus in more

[2:06:40] importantly, importantly, I urge you to support the five recommendations that staff is

[2:06:46] carefully crafted for your approval.

[2:06:49] I've been on this road many times, it can be bumpy, but tenacity has netted out thousands

[2:06:55] of acres of public open space for generations to support, to enjoy.

[2:07:01] So I ask tonight for your aye vote.

[2:07:03] Thank you.

[2:07:04] Thank you, Theresa. That ends the public speakers. Are there any remote speakers?

[2:07:12] No mayor. We do not have any remote speakers.

[2:07:15] Thank you. Council member Dimitra.

[2:07:17] Great. Thank you, Mayor. Just real quickly.

[2:07:20] I've got to say it because I wouldn't be me without it.

[2:07:23] But 60.67.7 potential new acres of open space park space into the inventory.

[2:07:34] relatively quickly with the work that needs to go down, and I'm still looking forward to

[2:07:40] another 1.8 acres in West Orange, the lay open we can get that across before I turn

[2:07:45] out or disappear. I do want to say that overall I agree 100% ready for this treason with

[2:07:53] this year's. This has been a battle, multi decades in order to create the visions that

[2:08:07] we're forcing by many before us, many in the community that have come and gone. And in

[2:08:14] the end, I'm hoping now that as we progress and we have staff and landify Milan, the government

[2:08:22] agencies that are going to be involved watching this as it progresses and develops into either

[2:08:29] the open space, the park space, whatever ends up happening towards the benefit of the community,

[2:08:35] we'll finally heal the Hatfields and McCoys that are out there. We can come back to

[2:08:40] gather as a community in that area specifically and start to heal and actually start to become

[2:08:46] family again. My last statement, and I'm going to support this, but my last statement is really

[2:08:53] to congratulate Mayor Slater. He set out with a goal. I remember him talking about it and

[2:09:01] thinking, good luck. But if, if and when this 67.7 acres comes to fruition, it's 112 acres

[2:09:09] in total. It's been now dedicated to open space protected around the Santiago Creek and that's

[2:09:17] no mild accomplishing of it. That was a promise you made to the people of Orange and I remember

[2:09:24] that might take notice. So thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Council member. Council member Barrios?

[2:09:31] I just wondered if the same manager or Jack, if you could answer specifically the public speaker

[2:09:37] that brought up the finding of arsenic in recent days? Can you, can you, can you, can one of

[2:09:42] maybe be in the bottom city attorney? No, I'm, I'm happy to address that the finding of

[2:09:48] our arsenic came from the waterboard letter, right? So the waterboard that the county

[2:09:54] I'll carry agency X as the lead environmental agency.

[2:09:59] There were...

[2:10:00] Over, I believe, 1,300 soil samples taken on site through all the stockpiles, and I believe it was approximately

[2:10:07] 18 of them that had findings of arsenic. What I can say is what does remain unsolved is this regulatory

[2:10:17] work, and the agreements were specifically structured for it. That said, it is something that we're

[2:10:27] coming on at now. I'm not a geotech, but again, the letters received, I believe, last Friday,

[2:10:33] I had a head of my office last Friday, and we're working through it right now. Again, it

[2:10:38] doesn't change my opinion of the agreements. It doesn't change my recommendation tonight.

[2:10:43] It is still very much to approve this, and let us work through it over the coming weeks

[2:10:48] and months. Okay, and I guess that leads to my second question, which is one of the things

[2:10:55] It's just kind of bugging me in the back of my head

[2:10:58] is about sequa.

[2:11:00] Sequo is designed for projects like this.

[2:11:03] Is it overused?

[2:11:04] Yes, does it a big pain?

[2:11:06] Yes.

[2:11:07] Do we need to improve it?

[2:11:10] But the finding that this project of all projects

[2:11:13] would be sequa exempt, just kind of baffles me,

[2:11:16] is it because there's so much other testing going on

[2:11:18] and it's part of the agreements?

[2:11:20] I just want to understand and sort of it

[2:11:22] just being out of hand.

[2:11:23] Nope, we don't need to do that.

[2:11:24] because this is secret perfect as far as a project.

[2:11:29] I can clarify.

[2:11:30] Please do.

[2:11:31] The secret determination before the council tonight is limited to the approval of the agreements.

[2:11:37] The agreements establish a conditional framework for a future property transfer.

[2:11:41] They do not approve or authorize the IDF operations grading or actual physical work.

[2:11:49] The regulatory agencies continue to monitor the site and retain their authority and the city's

[2:11:54] regulatory authority is expressly preserved.

[2:11:56] So at this time, tonight before you counsel,

[2:11:59] the city is not making a determination tonight.

[2:12:02] We've already the idea forward,

[2:12:03] the grading for the actual project itself.

[2:12:06] So, Secret could apply at a future point,

[2:12:08] say when the land is transferred.

[2:12:12] Yeah, it could apply, right?

[2:12:12] As we work through the regulatory process,

[2:12:15] future actions will certainly be evaluated

[2:12:17] for SQL effect applicable.

[2:12:25] Council member, good to us.

[2:12:27] I would like to ask a question of landify if they're available.

[2:12:33] So, rubber jot them?

[2:12:35] I see them sitting in audience.

[2:12:38] Yeah, please step forward.

[2:12:43] Thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

[2:12:45] I hope you didn't have to fly a long hours to get here,

[2:12:48] or you've been around locally, hopefully.

[2:12:50] I just want to, well, for small, as you stand there,

[2:12:54] I want to just say, you know, it's Jared and the year that you've been here, you've had

[2:13:02] to learn, selling Miller like this.

[2:13:04] And so I appreciate all the hard work that you've had to, you're meeting with landify,

[2:13:09] meeting with mom, meeting with our residents, and you speak to all of them out in OPA, and

[2:13:15] I appreciate that.

[2:13:16] And you've had to learn fast and furious.

[2:13:18] And you're trying to get a resolution for us.

[2:13:20] And so understanding the disagreement is with the modifying ourselves at the city, right?

[2:13:26] We put all that Milan would hand this over to you all.

[2:13:30] I want to hear your commitment.

[2:13:32] I guess I'm concerned with the regulatory aspects of the new letters that just came in that

[2:13:38] I have yet to see with this arsenic and of this and that I'm concerned with your commitment

[2:13:44] to making certain that you meet all those regulatorys and that you will stick it, you know,

[2:13:50] day with it until you've cleared all those hurdles so that in fact we can take it over after

[2:13:57] all that and seek what is then taken care of. So I just wanted to hear that that is your

[2:14:02] commitment with this pathway forward with Milan basically handing it over to you for you to be able

[2:14:10] to then take on the reins and go through all the regulatory processes and that in a sense you won't

[2:14:16] say, this is just too much. I'm done. We're not going to continue. I just want to hear

[2:14:20] that come in from you, because I read it, but I'd like to hear it from you, voice out

[2:14:25] to the public. Steve Brown with WandaFive. There is quite a few regulatory hurdles that we

[2:14:33] have to go through that will set standards that we have to adhere to, and that we monitor.

[2:14:39] We have projects elsewhere in the state that we're meeting similar standards. So we are in

[2:14:45] environmental company at our core, and we are a community-centered company at our core.

[2:14:53] I'd like to say trust us, but I can also tell you we're a business.

[2:14:58] So if there are any cynics among you who are working.

[2:15:00] We're not going to deliver what I can tell you is our next project depends on our last project.

[2:15:06] We are committed in our corporate values for delivering.

[2:15:10] But it's also true that we are going to be monitored from a regulatory standpoint.

[2:15:17] The city will have opportunity to monitor what is happening.

[2:15:21] You all have the ability to, you know, the ability, you will review and have the right to approve the grading plan.

[2:15:27] But more than that we have to be good corporate citizens, or we won't stay in this much.

[2:15:36] All right, and that is what I wanted to hear.

[2:15:37] Thank you so much.

[2:15:39] I just wanted you all to get an opportunity to speak so that the public can hear what your commitment is to our city and to that project site.

[2:15:47] So thank you, gentlemen.

[2:15:48] Thank you.

[2:15:49] Any other questions of landify?

[2:15:53] All right.

[2:15:54] Thank you.

[2:15:54] Thank

[2:15:58] you, Mr.

[2:16:04] I just, the city manager said this has been a very, very long road.

[2:16:09] It's not over, but the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and tonight is an important step to continue and start that journey.

[2:16:22] So I think we're going to get there, but we all have to continue to work together, and I have with the community of course, and I think we can make this happen for orange.

[2:16:33] I will call for the vote, the vote is to approve the five recommended actions.

[2:16:59] Provenamously, congratulations.

[2:17:05] I'm going to call for a quick 10 minute break if that's all right with everybody.

[2:17:12] 10 minutes please.

[2:30:27] In session, item 9.2, county of orange, unincorporated island, annexation, study and policy direction. This was continued from August 11. I will ask for staff report.

[2:30:40] Thank you, Mayor and Council members. Tonight for your consideration is just an overview and discussion.

[2:30:45] And potentially looking to annex our existing county islands, ultimately at the end of the

[2:30:50] side of them, what staff is looking for is policy direction on how to proceed, including

[2:30:55] engaging with the current county island residents and property owners, as well as the county

[2:30:59] of Orange and O.C. left-go.

[2:31:02] It will be a partnership with all three if we move forward.

[2:31:06] So before I jump into the process, I wanted to just explain why this is being presented

[2:31:10] to the council tonight.

[2:31:12] And so back in February, we had our strategic planning session and the council recall as we did that dot exercise where, for staff, it helped us identify those immediate policy priorities of the council, the, the looking at our potential of Ranax and county islands, that received really the highest number of dots.

[2:31:32] So six out of seven council members said we wanted to look at this. And so with the revised strategic plan being adopted and the budget now being adopted, we are bringing this to the council.

[2:31:41] to receive that direction and to see if we wanted to look at annexing all or some of the existing

[2:31:47] county islands. And I wanted to provide just kind of a brief background. So in the early 2000s,

[2:31:54] we had the city at that time took a bigger approach in annexing many of the county islands. Initially

[2:32:01] and I was doing the research of initially looking at 13 county islands, ultimately 11 of the 13

[2:32:07] were annexed. The ones that were removed at that time were Lincoln and Glacell as well as the

[2:32:13] San Diego Creek or the bond pits. So those ones were a part of the initial analysis they were

[2:32:19] removed and then the 11 islands that were evaluated were ultimately annexed. I will say that you take

[2:32:26] out the San Diego Creek, you take out Lincoln and Glacell, the remaining islands that are there

[2:32:31] were not a part of the initial analysis and you can see that with this map that was included with

[2:32:36] staff report back in the early 2000s. So if you look at North El Medina right here and

[2:32:41] you have El Medina here, none of them were really evaluated and here's all of heights. So

[2:32:46] these were islands that were existing but at the time for whatever reason those were not

[2:32:51] evaluated as that initial exploration of whether or not the city was going to annex them

[2:32:56] and so that's what we had the six remaining today. And then I wanted to provide where these are at

[2:33:02] in relation to our current district map. Most of them, three of them would go into district six

[2:33:10] with one into not having any existing county islands.

[2:33:17] So there's really two approaches to

[2:33:18] starting this process and it all hinges on the size of the county islands. It's 150 acres or less.

[2:33:26] It can be kind of classified in that streamlined approach. There's no protest proceeding with that.

[2:33:30] It's more of an administrative action.

[2:33:32] We would work with the county, and I'll see

[2:33:33] left go to make that happen.

[2:33:35] We would also engage the residents that are living

[2:33:38] in those particular county islands.

[2:33:39] Most of the ones that we're looking at tonight

[2:33:41] fall within that category, the two that are outside of that

[2:33:44] in our 150 acres or more are OPA,

[2:33:47] as well as the San Diego Creek area.

[2:33:50] If you look at the different steps you have there,

[2:33:52] by and large, once you get to step five,

[2:33:54] they are pretty similar to one another.

[2:33:57] There are some differences, but there are similar approaches.

[2:33:59] It's the parts when you get to steps 6 and 7 and that's because of the protests proceedings.

[2:34:05] So if we get the direction tonight, staff would have those preliminary discussions.

[2:34:09] We would look at the feasibility analysis, looking how much we would expect that

[2:34:12] cost would be for the city as well as negotiating revenue shares with the county.

[2:34:17] We would adopt a resolution, it's 150 acres or less, the council would adopt a resolution

[2:34:21] making findings that this isn't fact less than 150 acres.

[2:34:25] And that we meet certain criteria to be able to streamline the approach.

[2:34:28] It's on the 158 acres or more side that Council Resolution really just initiates the proceedings.

[2:34:34] The county border supervisors would then approve an annexation agreement.

[2:34:38] Now that's when staff would come back before that happens to talk about the different revenues

[2:34:43] shares that ultimately would be incorporated within that annexation agreement considered by the border supervisors.

[2:34:49] When we get to step five and I mentioned that's kind of where we depart.

[2:34:52] If it is 150 acres or less, O.C. Lafgo would hold a public carrying and ultimately would if they approve that which is more

[2:35:00] The Ministry of Action, that would approve the annexation, and that would go to the city.

[2:35:06] If it's 150 acres or more, that's when I go to O.C. Lafco, when they hold a public hearing in a

[2:35:11] approve it, it's commencing the protest proceedings, which is detailed in 6 and 7. O.C. Lafco

[2:35:17] would schedule a protest hearing for a period generally ranging from 21 to 60 days. Oh, no, the

[2:35:22] election could be required. If there is no majority of protest or election, or the

[2:35:26] election succeeds, the Nose Lafca will issue a certificate of completion, and the

[2:35:31] taxation would become effective.

[2:35:34] We have both of the 150 acres or more, so it's OPA as well as San Diego Creek.

[2:35:39] They fall into each of these.

[2:35:40] So OPA would have fallen to an inhabited territory.

[2:35:43] The San Diego Creek area would fall into the uninhabited territory.

[2:35:47] So if we were to move forward with that, and everything got to that point, we're at

[2:35:51] that's six and seven.

[2:35:52] For OPA, you would fall into, if less than 25%

[2:35:55] where to come out and protest against it,

[2:35:58] the annexation would be ordered.

[2:35:59] If you got 25% to 50% or protest

[2:36:02] submitted by 25% of the owners

[2:36:05] who also own at least a quarter of the assessor value

[2:36:09] of that territory, then an election would be administered.

[2:36:12] And that's OCLAP go working with the city

[2:36:14] and the county ROV.

[2:36:16] If you received 50% or more protests,

[2:36:18] then the proceedings are terminated

[2:36:20] and we're done at that point.

[2:36:22] That first part of the inhabited territory, that's the process for OPA if the council went

[2:36:25] that direction.

[2:36:27] The uninhabited territory is that small portion with the San Diego Creek, which is essentially

[2:36:32] the basins.

[2:36:35] By and large, that's owned by the Orange County Water District.

[2:36:38] I think we wouldn't really even necessarily get to this phase.

[2:36:41] I'm sure we can reach out to them and see if there's any interest in there.

[2:36:44] Since they own really the line share of that property, I think we can engage with them and

[2:36:48] see if there would be any interest within that area.

[2:36:51] But for consideration of 158 acres more,

[2:36:54] we have those two county islands, one would

[2:36:57] fall in each of them, and that's the approach we would take.

[2:37:01] So I have a slide for each one just to give an overview

[2:37:04] of the county islands we're considering.

[2:37:06] So the first one's El Medina, again, less than 150 acres,

[2:37:10] 101 acres, the estimated population.

[2:37:12] And this is for most of you, Laphco,

[2:37:13] so I'm sure these numbers will change as we get into this.

[2:37:16] But it's a 2700 housing units. We have 684 housing units. We will work with the county on this, but it is likely that if we were to move forward, we would have to absorb the rena units that are associated with each county island.

[2:37:31] And so right now, 328 are assigned to the El Medina island. And I just have a note there that this one is streamlined. This one could go to the streamlined approval.

[2:37:42] Northamadena is even smaller, 31 acres, estimated population is up by 20 with 126 housing units,

[2:37:48] no-ringing units are assigned to Northamadena and again this one would be a streamline approval.

[2:37:54] All of heights is right around the same range, 32 acres, estimated population is 500, 166,

[2:38:01] housing units, 431 reading units is assigned there with a streamline approval applying to that one as well.

[2:38:07] Lincoln in Gacell, it's mostly industrial, surprisingly, it has ringing in to sign to it.

[2:38:13] It's 6.04, but given it's size, that one would also be eligible for a streamlined approach.

[2:38:20] And then we get to our two final ones, which are above that 158th threshold.

[2:38:25] This is Orange Park Acres 294.

[2:38:28] Estimate populations, a little over a thousand, housing units that 386.

[2:38:32] And then there are nobody units assigned to that, and that's coming from the county of Orange.

[2:38:36] We worked with them last year when we first started looking at this and that's where we're getting those numbers.

[2:38:43] Lastly, you have the San Diego Creek.

[2:38:45] No one's living there and it's a streamlined approval.

[2:38:49] It would be no, and it's 170, 187 acres.

[2:38:55] So I just wanted to provide an overview of what each of these county items look like.

[2:39:00] Again, we have six of them that we are discussing tonight.

[2:39:02] When we look at how services are provided in the

[2:39:07] our unincorporated areas, I have the different

[2:39:10] agencies that are providing services. It is kind of a

[2:39:13] hodgepodge of different agencies that are involved.

[2:39:16] I will note that when it comes to our fire department or

[2:39:20] city fire department, many of the unincorporated county

[2:39:23] highlands for mutual aid agreements. However, they do not

[2:39:26] provide ambulance transports out of these areas.

[2:39:29] So, if Annex, this is a service that we would need to, we would need to evaluate and consideration of the existing ambulance contract that's currently operating out of there.

[2:39:40] If it were to come over to the city, you would have things like our library would come to the city of Orange's library animal control.

[2:39:47] We are already contracting with the county that would continue planning all that would become city services and of course, orange and bicycle district service, these areas as well.

[2:39:57] So ultimately, what world is this?

[2:40:00] Fast looking for tonight is, we're wanting to see from the council if there is a desire for staff to work with the property owners of residents in these areas to work with OCLafko as well as county of orange staff, particularly in the CEO's office to see if this is something that we can bring back to the council with the cost estimates of what it would take to service those areas if it came to the city as well as the revenue shares and the exchanges that would happen between the city and the county.

[2:40:28] There are existing property tax exchanges, but that's something that I think we can work with the county and see if we can make this work.

[2:40:35] They are interested in working with us to make this happen and so right now staff is looking for direction and based on direction will work with the relevant agencies.

[2:40:44] It's very

[2:40:49] well before we get to public comments, are there any questions or staff?

[2:40:58] Councillor Talar, did you want to go first?

[2:41:01] I'm going to go first.

[2:41:04] Everyone, fine with that.

[2:41:07] All right.

[2:41:09] Before we call for a speaker, if any members of the public or a participating

[2:41:14] to address the council, please raise your hand if you're calling in.

[2:41:19] Please press star 9 to raise your hand.

[2:41:22] You'll hear end person speakers first and then move on to remote speakers.

[2:41:26] You're participating remotely.

[2:41:28] The city clerk will announce when your three minutes are up and then you will be muted.

[2:41:34] First public speaker, in fact, might be the only one Mr. Peterson.

[2:41:41] No, I'm sorry, there aren't quite a few.

[2:41:45] All right, good evening, again, once again,

[2:41:48] I'm speaking on behalf of Wendy Reglin,

[2:41:50] who couldn't make a tonight, obviously, what she has.

[2:41:54] Good evening, Mayor on council.

[2:41:55] My name is Wendy Reglin, and I live in all of heights.

[2:41:59] One of the unincorporated county islands

[2:42:00] under discussion tonight.

[2:42:03] I oppose annexation.

[2:42:05] My neighbors and I, I chose to live in a county pocket

[2:42:07] for a reason.

[2:42:08] We value the semi-erroral character of our community the independence it provides in the fact that it means distinct from the city

[2:42:16] Before annexation proposed proposals moves forward. I encourage the council to consider a fundamental questioning to the effective residents

[2:42:26] Actually want it for many of us and all of heights dancers know we wish to preserve the character of our neighborhood and remain a county pocket

[2:42:34] Trust matters in discussions like this, the city is asking residents in unincorporated

[2:42:39] county islands to trust city government enough to become part of it.

[2:42:44] At the same time, the city recently sent a demand letter to a private political forum

[2:42:49] over a graphic and page title.

[2:42:53] Those actions send very different messages about the civic participation and community engagement.

[2:42:59] If the city wants residents to embrace annexation, it should first demonstrate that

[2:43:04] welcome public participation, dissenting viewpoints and community oversight.

[2:43:09] I urge the council to respect the wishes of the residents who live in these communities

[2:43:13] and not assume annexation as a preferred outcome.

[2:43:17] Thank you, regards.

[2:43:19] Thank you.

[2:43:20] There are several other speakers.

[2:43:21] First one is Reggie Mundicus, followed by Laura Cecina.

[2:43:35] This is something that sounds good, but there's a lot of details because each of these areas

[2:43:42] have their own codes and the way that the residents live and I'm not sure if everybody is

[2:43:52] going to want to adapt to or in city code when it comes to things like the number of animals

[2:43:57] you can have and some the other code issues and some the other issues with non-conforming structures.

[2:44:04] This would also cost money, because they have infrastructure needs to be upgraded.

[2:44:13] My suggestion is that if the sales tax measure passes, we bring this back, not in

[2:44:22] 2027, because that would be the first year of that money, but at the end of 2027 or the

[2:44:34] tax measure passes we would have some funds to actually put towards this. And in the meantime,

[2:44:43] you could have discussions with the residents of those areas to see if they want to join

[2:44:46] the city. Thank you.

[2:44:50] Thank you, Reggie. Following Lori, Susina is Laurel Maldonado.

[2:45:02] Good evening, Mayor and Council members. In January Council meeting, Councilman Demetree said residents should be surveyed before the city gets too far into this process.

[2:45:17] Councilman, and I'm going to pronounce your name wrong.

[2:45:20] For Dowe, also supported fighting out what residents wanted early.

[2:45:26] So I'm asking you to honor that.

[2:45:28] Council member Guteris, you originally brought the county island annexation forward.

[2:45:35] Before the city moves ahead with annexing El Medina and OPA, you should support a survey

[2:45:41] asking the effective residents whether they actually want to become part of the city.

[2:45:46] Residents need to know exactly what Annexate and Session could mean before they are asked to support it.

[2:45:53] For Orange Park Boulevard in Elmo, that includes differences between county and city regulation, regulations affecting horses, livestock, chickens,

[2:46:02] as well as affected horse trailers, recreational vehicles, and where they may be parked on private property or public streets.

[2:46:09] These aren't minor issues, and in a question community, they affect how people have used their properties for generations.

[2:46:17] Residents also deserve a clear explanation of the financial consequences.

[2:46:22] Anization does not simply allow the city to raise everyone's proposition.

[2:46:27] Proposition 13 property tax rate, but city residents can be subject to voter approved bonds, assessments or other property related charges that may appear on their property tax bill.

[2:46:39] Before this moves forward,

[2:46:41] residents should be given a written comparison

[2:46:43] showing the county rules versus city rules explaining

[2:46:47] any potential changes to their property tax bill.

[2:46:50] Orange Park acres at Elmodeena may be different communities

[2:46:53] with different annexation rules,

[2:46:57] but we have one very important thing in common.

[2:47:00] The people who live here deserve to be asked first,

[2:47:03] and they deserve to know exactly what they are being asked to join.

[2:47:06] Thank you.

[2:47:07] Thank you, Lori.

[2:47:09] Following Laurel is Drew White Feather.

[2:47:19] Hello again.

[2:47:22] I don't really have a prepared speech.

[2:47:24] I just wanted to kind of understand the process of this.

[2:47:29] It's my understanding that if one of these islands is considered to be annexed,

[2:47:34] all six have to be annexed together.

[2:47:36] If that's not true, that's great.

[2:47:39] Orange Park Gakers, my family has lived there since 1965.

[2:47:44] It has the whole entire area had been county.

[2:47:48] The only reason that it's not is in 1973,

[2:47:51] land started to be sold and be annexed into the city.

[2:47:56] And approvals for communities that were not a

[2:47:58] question in communities, not large animal keeping,

[2:48:01] were being approved at lightning speed.

[2:48:04] Luckily we had forefathers that were smart and residents

[2:48:07] that then put together a committee and they created our specific plan.

[2:48:12] It stopped future developments from destroying our rural character.

[2:48:18] But we have them in there and we had to deal with them.

[2:48:21] But we stopped that.

[2:48:24] And so the fear is annexing into the city is going to be the first step

[2:48:28] that we're going to lose our rural character.

[2:48:33] And we're going to lose our ability to keep our decline

[2:48:35] and our livestock in our kitchen and our chickens and it just doesn't seem like it makes sense

[2:48:42] right now.

[2:48:43] If I naturally, you guys are struggling as the city, get things together before you start

[2:48:49] taking, trying to take an annex us into the city because you're not going to have any money

[2:48:55] to support us the way that we need to be supported in our county.

[2:48:59] I ask you to just think about what you're doing, be sure that you asked the residents in

[2:49:04] to these counties that you're trying to annex in and listen to the residents as you're supposed

[2:49:09] to be listening to the residents not coming in and just taking if we don't want to be

[2:49:14] annexed into the city. I think we're all open to look at both sides but I hope you're transparent

[2:49:18] in providing all information, the pros and the cons and let the residents make a choice.

[2:49:24] The weather they want to be part of this annexation are not. Thank you.

[2:49:28] Thank you, Laurel.

[2:49:29] Paul and Drew is Sherry and Todd.

[2:49:35] I'm Aaron.

[2:49:36] Council members.

[2:49:37] I ask the Council to take OPA out of this analysis.

[2:49:42] One, you guys can't afford us.

[2:49:44] We have bridges.

[2:49:46] We have handy creek.

[2:49:48] You look at the city side.

[2:49:50] We pull the trees.

[2:49:52] You look at the county side.

[2:49:53] It's clear of trees.

[2:49:55] We don't want the same thing.

[2:49:57] happen to may that happen to may vary with their green.

[2:50:00] How many people have taken the bill when you guys come in and say, all these trees have to be cut down, because we can't afford to maintain them.

[2:50:07] OPA, we love our research. We don't want to lose our roosters. And in the city, you guys do not allow roosters. I can have more horses on my property, because I live in the county than the people in the city.

[2:50:20] There's a lot of underground in issues that would technically, I can have as many horses

[2:50:28] I want, actually, because our property was bought before the law.

[2:50:33] So I'm grandfathered in, would the city recognize that?

[2:50:37] Because the county does.

[2:50:39] So there's a lot of costs that the city would endure, that with the way the budget is,

[2:50:48] you guys could not even afford.

[2:50:49] I mean, I know we bring money in, we don't use a lot of fire, we don't use it until it's

[2:50:55] needed, we don't use a lot of police other than, you know, new port Academy.

[2:51:02] They spend more money on the police than we do than the residents of OPA.

[2:51:08] So I just ask you to take this out of the analysis, deal with it later when you guys get

[2:51:14] your budget's worked out, and thank you.

[2:51:19] Thank

[2:51:27] you again for the opportunity to speak.

[2:51:30] As I said earlier, I'm the current president of Orange Park Association.

[2:51:34] On behalf of the Association, I urge city to remove orange park acres from the current annexation proposal.

[2:51:41] annexation is a delicate issue to our rural community and must be approached differently than in other areas,

[2:51:46] because of the orange park acres and animal keeping practices, rural infrastructure and the longstanding community character.

[2:51:53] If the city wishes to discuss annexation in the future, we respectfully request that at first

[2:51:59] engaged directly with the community, listen to residents' concerns, and consider the

[2:52:04] ordinances and grandfathering protections needed to affected properties.

[2:52:09] At that time, we, at this time, we cannot support any annexation of Orange Park Eakers.

[2:52:14] Thank you.

[2:52:15] Thank you, Sherry.

[2:52:17] Are there any remote speakers?

[2:52:20] No, Mayor.

[2:52:21] Okay. Thank you. I'll bring it back to Council for discussion.

[2:52:27] I would encourage you to weigh in on your opinion on all the islands.

[2:52:33] Then I'd like to do just a show of hands Island by Island if you think it's something we should possibly consider now or not.

[2:52:47] So that's what I'm kind of thinking at this point.

[2:52:50] First of all, again, what's Council Member Tavalera's?

[2:52:52] Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

[2:52:54] A couple of questions.

[2:52:55] Thank you, Jack.

[2:52:57] I know a lot of people talk about, you know, the financial situation we're in.

[2:53:01] I know that this process is taken over by a organization called Laphco.

[2:53:09] And I want to ask a city manager,

[2:53:13] We're staff is asking for us to either approve or not approve or go forward with a study.

[2:53:17] So they would be the lead agency in that study?

[2:53:21] I don't know who would be lead agency.

[2:53:23] I'm looking at Jexie.

[2:53:24] We're looking for some direction right now.

[2:53:26] Right now, the Lafca Report, one of the attachments, has some preliminary analysis.

[2:53:32] We need to know what the actual true cost is.

[2:53:35] I'm not just going to simply take the county's $2.1 million,

[2:53:39] expenditure at pace value and say that's what our expenditure is going to be. So if there

[2:53:44] was motion prepared, I would prepare something along the lines to direct staff to complete

[2:53:51] the due diligence, right? What is the true financial impact? Run an infrastructure condition

[2:53:57] assessment. With that, we'll be able to wrap a dollar mountain of figure around it and negotiate

[2:54:04] with the county. Final take it for a million dollars or five million dollars or whatever

[2:54:08] that might be. So tonight isn't actually about initiating formal proceedings, it's, do you want

[2:54:16] to conduct new diligence if so on what islands? And then do we want to survey residents, right?

[2:54:24] I absolutely feel resident engagement is very much, you know, it needs to happen. I wouldn't

[2:54:36] do you want to be annexed? Yes or no, survey, right? I feel we would get a lot of no votes and then that

[2:54:43] puts Council on a predicament. You surveyed us and you still initiated proceedings, right? I would

[2:54:49] couch the survey more as what do you want to preserve? What characteristics? We can certainly design

[2:54:55] around community standards, right? Part of the due diligence will

[2:55:00] We would look at our community development code with the county's code. It would address things such as animal keeping, RV keeping, lot sizes, et cetera. It's substantial amount of work. That would likely take months to complete.

[2:55:15] If you send us down the path, no problem.

[2:55:19] Happy to do the work.

[2:55:21] But I would return likely within six months or so

[2:55:25] with a true due diligence sort of report some community survey along that lines.

[2:55:31] And then Council can make the decision whether or not to initiate formal proceeding.

[2:55:36] I appreciate that.

[2:55:37] From my memory years ago, I remember former supervisor more

[2:55:40] Lock made a big deal about this because of

[2:55:43] And his then district, he had a lot of islands, he wanted to melden to the cities that

[2:55:51] they were surrounding.

[2:55:52] And it was a very popular issue at the time for the county, I don't remember if it was

[2:55:56] for the cities involved, but it was for the county.

[2:56:00] So last go has a process, if they're not the lead agency, they actually have the process

[2:56:08] that goes through, whether it's surveying, asking questions,

[2:56:12] how this will work out in negotiations

[2:56:13] with the county if we decide to do so, so forth.

[2:56:17] Mr. Mayor, I understand what you're saying.

[2:56:19] I'd like just to talk about the third district,

[2:56:21] if that's okay.

[2:56:22] Jack, could you bring, there's a couple of them

[2:56:26] in the third district, one of which

[2:56:27] is the, are Jane Noble sits right now?

[2:56:30] I don't remember what.

[2:56:30] Correct.

[2:56:31] That's the Lincoln Gousel.

[2:56:33] OK.

[2:56:33] That I would ask my colleagues to agree with me that that parcel that we can call it that parcel is just a business

[2:56:44] Ardain Noble.

[2:56:45] There's no home there.

[2:56:46] I'm kind of confused why there's green numbers there.

[2:56:48] The county put green numbers there.

[2:56:50] That's what we received.

[2:56:52] Yeah, that they have green numbers tied to that particular island.

[2:56:55] But yet there's no home.

[2:56:56] I don't want to get on for the county deal with the green numbers.

[2:56:58] But anyway, the whole plot, as we all know since you all here are my neighbors, that is strictly

[2:57:06] Argy Noble.

[2:57:08] I know they have no desire to change anything because it's just a business.

[2:57:13] So I would ask that that not be included in anything going forward.

[2:57:19] And then the other part that's in District 3 is all of.

[2:57:24] So all of high it looks like it's it's in district four

[2:57:30] Might be a portion of the far wheel of sports. Yeah, that was what so it's like

[2:57:35] The mayor for time and I share that there's also I was telling the city manager earlier

[2:57:42] There are there are some streets near Amber's park

[2:57:46] That are county streets and that's homes were built about

[2:57:51] I'll see 20 years ago and I'm kind of surprised that Lanar when they were building them, they didn't do anything.

[2:57:57] Anyway, I only know because when I walk precincts up there, they're not districted in district 3.

[2:58:03] They're county residents.

[2:58:04] And they're melded into those neighborhoods of those new homes.

[2:58:09] And I'll go tomorrow and get the addresses and stuff.

[2:58:12] But I actually would do walk my precincts.

[2:58:14] So I know that there are some little streets in there that may be left.

[2:58:18] who doesn't know about, maybe it was an oversight.

[2:58:21] But that is District 3 and that's, and so for that,

[2:58:25] and I will wait to hear what my colleague, Mr. Billodon

[2:58:27] wants.

[2:58:27] I would say, let's study it.

[2:58:30] There's nothing wrong with studying it.

[2:58:31] It doesn't mean we're doing anything.

[2:58:32] I'd kind of like to know more about it.

[2:58:39] And my other thing is,

[2:58:44] the last question

[2:58:45] I think Mr. or city manager is, if we get to the point

[2:58:49] that slot A looks like something they want and we want.

[2:58:56] I take it, we negotiate or laugh could up on our behalf with the county, so we just don't take it as is with everything that's wrong with it.

[2:59:07] We would negotiate something in terms of water, pavement, sewers, all that good stuff because it probably hasn't been kept up to the standards of what the city does.

[2:59:18] Yeah.

[2:59:19] There's going to be a lot of negotiation that has to occur with county.

[2:59:22] Infrastructure and negotiation, property tax, revenue, split, et cetera.

[2:59:26] Some of the county islands, I believe, might have a structural, fire-fund fee associated

[2:59:31] with them that correlates to the Orange County Fire Authority.

[2:59:35] There's going to be months of negotiations back with the county.

[2:59:37] Yes.

[2:59:38] Also, with the sheriff and OCFA and all the things that.

[2:59:41] So, for example, if you guys look at that map, if you look at all of high, it's probably

[2:59:45] one of the small ones that we're looking at.

[2:59:47] Or, El Medina, my colleague Gutierrez, Councilwoman Gutierrez,

[2:59:51] Polizac.

[2:59:52] There's a crime there.

[2:59:53] There's something happens there.

[2:59:54] It's not OPD that goes there.

[2:59:57] A sheriff has to make a special, special trip there.

[3:00:00] So that cost them money. So you can understand from their standpoint that it's not cost effective for them.

[3:00:06] So, and I do want to, I remember councilman to meet you at our, at our meetings that he'd love to see orange and made hole, and it's time to have these discussions, and I think that's something good.

[3:00:16] Does it mean we're going to do it? Just means that we can talk about it. Again, I don't feel, I want to overstep my colleagues who represent districts, Mr. Mayor, and talk about their properties.

[3:00:27] I think that would be not fair for me, but in terms of District 3, that would be my wish for the

[3:00:35] LinkedIn Glacell to stay as is because it's just a company at the gravel site and then for all

[3:00:41] of heights, at least for my part of it. I mean, I'm okay with studying it. I don't think there's

[3:00:46] anything wrong with studying it. It's kind of an interesting issue to deal with, I think.

[3:00:50] Just for clarification to follow up, I'm assuming if anything happened to Argy

[3:00:57] Noel property and they wanted to develop it with that point definitely be incorporated

[3:01:01] in the city.

[3:01:03] No questions asked, right?

[3:01:05] Not right now.

[3:01:06] Mike, no, not right now.

[3:01:08] It's county incorporated island.

[3:01:10] But it is developed, wouldn't it not necessarily?

[3:01:13] No.

[3:01:15] And they're owners who are very well-known, but they have a desire.

[3:01:20] We've spoken to them, Mr. Billodon, Mr. Major and I at one point,

[3:01:23] Dr. Demo, they definitely don't want to be part of it.

[3:01:26] And I see why, as the property itself is just the company.

[3:01:30] And if you know the history of the company, it goes back 150 years,

[3:01:35] and I understand the history without it.

[3:01:36] But all of Hype is a neighborhood.

[3:01:39] I'd like to see what, again, I'd just like to see what the study would say.

[3:01:43] I think it's kind of an interesting study.

[3:01:46] Thank you.

[3:01:47] Mayor Pro Tembillero.

[3:01:49] Thank you.

[3:01:50] Jack, what are the fees associated with kicking off a study with Lafco?

[3:01:57] I'm going to share some of these.

[3:01:59] So for over 150 acres, I'll have to get with them on that.

[3:02:02] I know that they wave the fee for anything that's less 150 acres.

[3:02:05] So trying to incentivize agencies to try to start this process.

[3:02:10] When it comes to any sort of revenue share at the county has given this kind of a layout of what that could look like

[3:02:16] But I believe a lot that would be negotiable

[3:02:20] There is an existing 1980 master property tax agreement, so we would get 50% of the property taxes they're receiving

[3:02:27] County would receive that 49.

[3:02:30] point percent. There's a county fire fund. We've got a hundred percent of that. Orange County Public Library Fund.

[3:02:38] A hundred percent of that. And then we would work on the deferred maintenance of there.

[3:02:42] There's a formula that they would work that out. And it's essentially a one-time payment

[3:02:46] of three years of maintenance since based on the five-year historical average.

[3:02:50] So there's revenues that we would work with the county and determine what would you come into the city.

[3:02:56] Okay, the reason why I ask is because before I get to that, I want to echo what Councilman

[3:03:06] Tavallar said about the, the urgent home property that the family has repeatedly indicated

[3:03:12] that they're not interested in annexation and they'd be the sole voters, so it's sort of a,

[3:03:20] it'd be a waste of time to have a laugh go go after them, that they're under intense regulatory

[3:03:26] is scrutiny because of the nature of their business, and I just don't think they want

[3:03:30] to get the city involved in that and they're quite comfortable being unincorporated.

[3:03:36] So I wouldn't support examining that at this time, and it's my understanding they don't

[3:03:41] generate any sales tax with the sale of asphalt, so it wouldn't be some financial

[3:03:47] windfall for the city far from it.

[3:03:53] In terms of OPA, that one obviously is a more than

[3:03:58] 150 acres and that would require some large fees from Lafco, I would think. It's pretty

[3:04:05] apparent to me that you'd have an uphill battle trying to get OPA to annex into the city.

[3:04:12] I think people like the, you know, the rural atmosphere that goes along with being unincorporated

[3:04:17] And so I don't know that that's even something we should even pursue.

[3:04:23] I think a person I just think is a waste of time, it's a distraction.

[3:04:29] The El Medina Islands generate an astoundingly low amount of revenue from a property tax perspective.

[3:04:38] Based on the attachments of the staff report, it looks like this for the El Medina North

[3:04:45] island back in 2020 when that was examined. It would generate about 1,500 bucks a year.

[3:04:55] It would be the city's take of the property tax revenue and for the...

[3:05:00] The larger Elmideed Island, we've got $9700. I can't imagine that would cover our costs for code enforcement and other activities that would need to occur there.

[3:05:13] So, yeah, it would be tough, and I, so OCLAPCO gave us this information. I know the county had additional information of what they were proposing when it comes to revenue share.

[3:05:22] So if the council directed us, we could probably get more precise numbers of what that property

[3:05:27] tax revenue would be to the city and what we can expect.

[3:05:30] Because I do have something from the county for March 25.

[3:05:33] It's a bit different than when O.C. Lafgo was reporting.

[3:05:37] But even with the county's numbers that are a bit higher, it's tough,

[3:05:41] even based on just the rough estimate that the county's spending the service to counties.

[3:05:47] It ultimately leads to a net cost to the city if you're assuming those revenues.

[3:05:52] Yeah, and that's what concerns me is that I think it's a great idea, but I don't know

[3:05:57] that's not the city can afford right now to take those on.

[3:06:01] Now in terms of all of heights,

[3:06:07] I'm interested in examining that.

[3:06:09] It's in my district.

[3:06:10] I, the infrastructure is, is all in place.

[3:06:15] There are some areas that have no sidewalk, but it's just, but it has a rolled curve,

[3:06:19] but that's just sort of the nature of the development.

[3:06:24] So I don't think there's any infrastructure that's

[3:06:27] deficient in that island.

[3:06:29] So to me, that's worth taking a look at.

[3:06:32] I could see from the materials you provided us.

[3:06:36] At one point, there was a tremendous amount of sales tax.

[3:06:39] It was generated there, but maybe that's changed.

[3:06:42] I don't know.

[3:06:44] It looks like there's a builder supply in that particular island.

[3:06:48] So it's generating quite a bit of sales tax revenue and I asked the county if that's Bradley Burns or if that's the full 7.75 this is that is the Bradley Burns.

[3:06:57] Okay and that would then go to the city so that that actually would more than pay for itself based on the sales tax production out there.

[3:07:08] And in terms of Santiago Creek I think there's only three property owners most of it is the Orange County Water District.

[3:07:17] So I'm familiar with and then there's a school and then there's a place that sells like

[3:07:24] firewood.

[3:07:24] I think there are tree arborist place or something so that they would all get to vote.

[3:07:32] I will say from just speaking with my Orange County district hat on.

[3:07:36] We had a lot of properties along the sand and river that about 20 years ago the city of

[3:07:44] and I'm annexed, they went to Lafco and annexed, and then they went forward and developed

[3:07:48] public spaces along the river, and it's actually quite beautiful, and it relieved the water

[3:07:54] district of a lot of maintenance burden. And now the city provides policing and things, and

[3:08:02] I'm very grateful for that, because had we not joined the State of Manor, I knew it had been

[3:08:08] camp run a muck out there with our unsheltered population. So it's actually

[3:08:13] board that's a big partnership.

[3:08:17] We don't have those issues at San Diego Creek that I'm aware of.

[3:08:20] We have an occasional fisherman that makes his way into those pits, but we have a way of

[3:08:27] chewing them off.

[3:08:29] But I wouldn't be opposed to the city looking into annexing that creek.

[3:08:36] I recently hosted a group out there that included the mayor, and I see Teresa Sears here

[3:08:42] And I had a biologist from the water as you come out and conduct a tour.

[3:08:47] And it's quite beautiful.

[3:08:48] There's areas of sort of behind the scenes, the public isn't aware of that it's really

[3:08:54] stunning, and it would be great to develop more public access to that property as a result.

[3:09:02] So I wouldn't be opposed with going forward with that because there's no cost to the city

[3:09:07] on that.

[3:09:08] So, um, and I think I covered all of the areas and so I'm just going to stop there. Thank you.

[3:09:15] Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem, Councilmember Gill and Amber.

[3:09:22] Thank you.

[3:09:23] Check out the handful of questions. I'll try and wrap it fire them.

[3:09:28] First of all, I think it makes sense to look into this.

[3:09:31] There's pocketed nature to our city, so it definitely is the right discussion topic.

[3:09:41] I guess my first question is can we annex a portion of these islands?

[3:09:47] Like what I mean is like maybe like a third of one of them.

[3:09:51] I think that we can always check with O.C. Lavko.

[3:09:54] I'm going to, I think they would likely want us to annex all of them.

[3:10:04] Okay, but we don't know if for sure that would be- We can ask them, yeah. I just know anyone kind of what the intent is and they're trying to have cities such as dorms, cities elsewhere to annex everything. So I think that would probably be there. They're taking on it. Okay. The reason why that question is asked because I think the sales tax generating portion of all of heights should be annexed if possible.

[3:10:27] I agree with Lincoln and Gillesale, leave that alone, I agree with OPA.

[3:10:35] I think it's a large enough community with a key identity that's organized, and they

[3:10:40] should be engaged in the discussion at the beginning before we move down any path.

[3:10:45] I frankly think that same logic can apply to residents of some of the other islands that

[3:10:50] they should also be engaged in this, although we can and next them.

[3:10:55] I do, I guess I would say that, you know, we should understand what their opinion is in this process.

[3:11:03] I think as we go about doing this and we should pursue some of the other ones,

[3:11:07] we should understand the value proposition that we bring.

[3:11:10] So the question I would ask is why are we annexing these islands?

[3:11:13] And I would think through it a couple of ways.

[3:11:15] One, there's a benefit to residents that live in those islands and we have to be able to communicate that.

[3:11:20] Two, there's a benefit to the residents that live around those islands.

[3:11:24] related to continuity, we should communicate that, and then we should know the financial impact

[3:11:30] of the decision, right? And that should be, you know, both the transition costs, and then with the

[3:11:37] long-term costs are. It's, I find it really hard to believe Jack, some of the property tax values that

[3:11:43] I see in here, they don't make a lot of sense to me, so if we can just confirm some of the low values,

[3:11:50] Does that make sense?

[3:11:51] Yeah, no absolutely.

[3:11:52] And depending on what the council directs, we'll come back with all of those numbers that have

[3:11:56] been confirmed and agreed to by the county so we can bring that proposal to the council.

[3:12:01] Got it.

[3:12:02] Thank you.

[3:12:04] The question of the finances, when you say negotiate revenue shares, are you saying that

[3:12:10] they're going to retain 50% of the property tax once we annex these, these islands?

[3:12:16] Yeah, the way, so, and I think there is,

[3:12:18] just on wiggle room there but there is an existing property tax share agreement from

[3:12:23] 1980 and essentially says that and they have a list here they'll give what the property

[3:12:27] taxes are for that particular island and they'll tell the city that is you get 50% of that

[3:12:34] and a percent it would be 50% point eight one percent 50.01% the balance of it would

[3:12:40] then go to the county still so that's how they've set this up it's an existing agreement

[3:12:47] That's been a place for quite some time.

[3:12:49] I do think we can work with the county.

[3:12:52] And if we should, the city's going to say,

[3:12:54] and we have interest in doing this,

[3:12:56] we want to be able to see what we can do with this property

[3:12:57] to do here.

[3:12:58] We have other pieces of land that we

[3:13:00] annexed from the county that are currently under that agreement.

[3:13:02] We're paying the bill.

[3:13:03] The ones that were done in early 2000s,

[3:13:06] they fell under that same agreement,

[3:13:07] just according to the staff.

[3:13:08] The other agreement, time bound, where at some point,

[3:13:11] we absorb the full property tax of those lands.

[3:13:13] Oh, believe so.

[3:13:14] I think it can be a value of a creating

[3:13:16] for the annex lands 20 years ago that we now

[3:13:20] the share of the property tax value that we'd very see

[3:13:23] you know why like what value are they creating for land that's already incorporated into

[3:13:27] orange where we provide all the services that to that land for them to continue to take the property

[3:13:32] tax. I'd have to find that so because we're providing the services and they're still continuing to

[3:13:36] take the property. We understand all parts of orange that have been annexed

[3:13:40] and where we still pay the county 50% of the property tax. Yeah we can

[3:13:44] I think as a part of this, we should understand if this is a time-bound negotiation, where's the value that the county provides by absorbing half of the property tax as an agreement for any moving forward of these islands, too.

[3:14:05] I think we need to understand the expenses per island as well.

[3:14:09] So although I think we should engage the residents and get an understanding and a survey it would be good to know what expenses we would take on.

[3:14:21] I think we know the revenue the expenses are within our control. We decide what we want to spend on.

[3:14:29] So I think tree trimming was brought up. How does that impact the tree trimming contracts?

[3:14:33] contracts, which I think that when it will go up as a result of more trees.

[3:14:38] But things like policing and fire, we may or may not spend more money in that area.

[3:14:43] If we absorb small islands and just make it a part of the existing service area, right?

[3:14:51] So I do think that we have some things that we can control on the expense side.

[3:14:56] And there's some things that are just going to be borne with picking them up.

[3:14:59] So we move forward enough.

[3:15:00] All these, we should really have a clear understanding as to what those are as we go through these.

[3:15:09] And then rena units, just so I'm clear, like if we were to absorb these kind of islands and they come

[3:15:15] at 400 or 600 or whatever, at that point we can distribute it across the city. Or are they run with the land?

[3:15:25] I think they would have to be assigned to that particular county island.

[3:15:28] That's my understanding and the total is 1,383 that would come to the city.

[3:15:34] If we were to annex all the county islands, but I can confirm if that could be spread out

[3:15:40] or if it had to be tied to that particular county island.

[3:15:43] Is this the part of an existing or an approved housing element with the county?

[3:15:48] Yes, that's what they had remaining at the time that they gave us these numbers.

[3:15:53] So this could change as we go and work with them.

[3:15:56] They could have met some of these obligations and those numbers are no longer that high,

[3:16:00] but we would find that out. But what they've told us and what was kind of new to us when we first

[3:16:05] talked to them is that that would become a part of our obligation.

[3:16:10] Can they just build those 400 units if they wanted to without the cities involvement?

[3:16:15] We consider to talk to them about that. Yes.

[3:16:17] Well, I guess my question is, is if they already have them approved, do we have any control over their

[3:16:22] ability to build 400 homes in one of these islands if it's county owned and we can't

[3:16:29] can we even influence their desire if we don't annex them and they already have 468 homes

[3:16:36] assigned to the island can they go ahead under their own rules and regulations code etc by

[3:16:43] past the city and just built I believe I can answer that track yes that would be correct

[3:16:49] because it would be outside of the jurisdiction of the city of orange if it is not an

[3:16:53] extent.

[3:16:54] The billings, the units can be built.

[3:16:57] Rina, number specifically, do not state that it has to be built, it's immediately, it's

[3:17:04] simply plans ahead for those specific units in that section.

[3:17:08] Yeah, I understand.

[3:17:09] I think that's probably something we should consider, like when we look at each one

[3:17:13] of these.

[3:17:15] So I just to summarize, I'm against OP A. I think we need to engage OP A and we need to understand the value proposition and they need to come to us and say we want to be a part of the city.

[3:17:26] I think Lincoln goes all against the Santiago Creek, I guess. I'm for that, just need to understand the cost or why we bring it into the city.

[3:17:37] The other two islands I'm for bringing in the sales tax generating part of all of heights but for the El Medina Islands

[3:17:45] I would again

[3:17:47] Riff refer back to I think they have their own identity. We need to understand

[3:17:52] What they want and I think that's an important part of the process

[3:17:56] Thank you council member council Mayor Demitru

[3:17:59] Great actually going back to some you just asked about the county just being able to build they do go around us

[3:18:06] for building. As a matter of fact, there's a project right now on Mark's way that was approved

[3:18:12] by the County Planning Commission to build affordable units that really, because of the way

[3:18:17] the law changed, it's just ministerial on our side and so they're putting up units without

[3:18:22] parkinging and all kinds of other issues that we never really even got to see. So I have some

[3:18:29] problems at whole. First, there needs to be a very clear descriptor when we reach out to

[3:18:37] poll at some point, which that needs to occur first. I think you need to find out if there's

[3:18:41] even interest, but it's not residents. It's actually property owners. Tenancy of our residents

[3:18:48] does not give you the right to decide on annexation. Well, it's nice. That's not who actually

[3:18:55] would end up being the deciding factor. It's actually the property owners, the somebody that's

[3:19:01] living there today may move tomorrow, having answered in the affirmative order for the negative,

[3:19:06] and that wouldn't be very, either way. The next portion is, I have big objections to, you know,

[3:19:13] we can't meet our arena numbers now, and then absorbing a bunch as a real problem. So I think that's

[3:19:19] That's a big issue that has to be worked out, and perhaps somehow kill it with the county

[3:19:27] and tell them to put their numbers somewhere else.

[3:19:30] I doubt that can happen.

[3:19:33] I think, fiscally, it's right now, it's just irresponsible time to do this.

[3:19:40] There are a lot of costs that we can just start at the beginning part with the staff working

[3:19:48] to move this forward. But again, without reaching out to the property owners to really see

[3:19:53] where we're at, if they're even interested, then we start looking at the stressors if there

[3:19:58] There is a...

[3:20:00] If there is an actual annexation, the stressors that we have, we don't have enough police now on

[3:20:05] our street, we don't have, you know, that those actions all pile up and then we're starting

[3:20:10] to add responsible areas, responsible responses, crime prevention, our code enforcement,

[3:20:18] our policing, and actually we would have to look at what we're having success with our

[3:20:24] We'll have to look at expanding that to service new islands.

[3:20:29] Again, I think it's already been said enough, but the all of heights,

[3:20:36] El Medina, Orch Park acres have identities,

[3:20:39] that I don't think should be lost.

[3:20:43] And I think when you move in with the city,

[3:20:45] and we start sharing a bed, those identities are immediately lost.

[3:20:49] Especially in OPA, you lose that rural feeling.

[3:20:51] It's going to be gone immediately.

[3:20:53] So I think that's a, that is a danger that I don't want to see happen and towards, again, going back towards infrastructure costs.

[3:21:05] That's significant.

[3:21:06] And let's just remember how the county has already gotten their way with us and we've been disadvantaged.

[3:21:14] when the Fairhaven Islands, Coli Drive, Canal and Hymerias were all adopted or brought into

[3:21:19] the city through annexation.

[3:21:21] We were promised money for infrastructure improvement, which included sewer connections.

[3:21:28] And those still haven't happened in some areas.

[3:21:31] And that money has been long spent.

[3:21:34] So the truth is the county will not meet the total cost.

[3:21:39] It just isn't going to happen.

[3:21:40] And it's no fault of their own.

[3:21:42] They're going to say, hey, this is what the cost is and we're going to come back and the project will be 10 times the amount whenever it ends up happening.

[3:21:50] So that's a danger as well.

[3:21:52] I remember when we had this at our strategic meeting, I was the one that didn't put the little sticker on the thing.

[3:21:59] I think the only one worth pursuing, if we were to pursue anything.

[3:22:05] So I'm a no across the board with the exception of the Santiago bond to pits.

[3:22:10] I don't see really anything that's effective there, and it has great fishing.

[3:22:17] I've been chased out of there, so.

[3:22:21] Thank you.

[3:22:22] Council member Barrios?

[3:22:24] Yes, thank you.

[3:22:26] I've heard everybody talking specifically about like absolutely no to Lincoln and go sell.

[3:22:31] And I just wanted to, you know, bring up one point about that.

[3:22:35] So the family, the archaenable owners, they own all of this land that is county land from

[3:22:43] top to bottom.

[3:22:46] I have to pull, I think it's the majority land or there may be small parcels in there owned

[3:22:52] by a separate entity but I have to confirm that.

[3:22:54] The reason I bring this up is just to not to get stuck in the here and now and to think

[3:23:00] a little bigger because this is above what is going to become the largest land development

[3:23:06] in North Orange County, O.C. Vibe.

[3:23:09] So are we being at all shortsighted by saying,

[3:23:12] well, the family doesn't want it,

[3:23:13] so we're not gonna talk about it.

[3:23:14] You know, when we could talk about it,

[3:23:17] in a sense of, this could have a lot of strategic value,

[3:23:21] going forward being above O.C. Vibe,

[3:23:23] at least the river part that's like crossing over the river

[3:23:26] and above all of the oranohan coves and all of that.

[3:23:30] So I just, since the way you,

[3:23:32] I'm going to borrow your word, Laurel, mentioned sequencing, since the sequencing that you've

[3:23:38] suggested, Jack, is that we would have these conversations in formal, not-lafco-involved

[3:23:45] so that we could understand a little bit better what it is that we're actually talking about

[3:23:50] with annexation, and it's not to say that we wouldn't do a poll or survey residents, but that

[3:23:56] come later once we are we ourselves are educated and we did educate them to about what what it is we

[3:24:04] have to do and what is our ability to do because we don't know we have no idea. I would my recommendation

[3:24:11] would be that we've not moved forward on that until say January or February of next year when

[3:24:17] you know about the sales tax and whether you have because while I think this sequencing with this

[3:24:22] The seminary, Mr. City Manager, is not a lot of costs.

[3:24:26] It would be a lot of staff time for Jack and for Natalie to really look in and dive in

[3:24:34] in a land use and what are the ordinances that are different from one to another.

[3:24:40] Mr. White, whether you and I've talked about this, it's been a long time, but we've talked

[3:24:43] about this at great length, and I could see why everybody would be against it right off

[3:24:48] bad, but I do think for whether it's for this council or future council's understanding what it means,

[3:24:55] and having that so that if anybody else in the future says, why don't we just do this?

[3:25:00] Finally, we have a report, and it's all here of exactly what that would take, because we don't have that.

[3:25:05] And the other reason I look at the Lincoln and Glacell one is because none of us were around at the time,

[3:25:13] a main place small was a county island, and Orange had the chance to annex it.

[3:25:18] And we just said, oh no, that'd be too much. So, and we lost that opportunity.

[3:25:23] So, we should always be thinking in much bigger, in a much bigger sense, have the information

[3:25:30] rather than not have it, and work with these separate neighborhoods to really understand

[3:25:36] them and understand what it would take.

[3:25:39] So, I do like the idea of a preliminary, more informal discussion, but for the time it

[3:25:44] will take and for what it will take away for what you would need to do for it.

[3:25:47] I would just ask that you wait and see if you have the resources to do even that, and

[3:25:54] but definitely not go to Lafgo or any of that until you have that preliminary understanding.

[3:26:02] I have a very low timbilito.

[3:26:07] Oh, I'm up.

[3:26:08] Just briefly,

[3:26:12] to respond to Council and Barrios, that area you see at Lincoln in Glacell, that's

[3:26:17] just north.

[3:26:18] That's owned by the Orange County Water District.

[3:26:20] In fee, the water district owns the sand and river right away in fee from Imperial Highway all the way down to the railroad

[3:26:29] Tressel that's just south of Ball Road.

[3:26:33] So just to clear that up.

[3:26:36] Secondly, to answer council member, Gill and Hammer.

[3:26:39] I know that 50-50 tax split might sound astounding, but you got to remember that the county of Orange provides many regional services to the public, including

[3:26:49] The assessor, the property tax assessor, the audit controller, the clerk recorder, the district attorney's office,

[3:26:56] the public defender's office, the treasure tax collector, child support services, the health care agency,

[3:27:03] O.C. Community Resources, which has the regional parks under them, the Solcer Service Agency,

[3:27:12] and the Registrar voters, and that's what their 50% of the tax income is used for.

[3:27:16] to operate all of those entities that serve the entire public at Orange County, and that's

[3:27:22] all I have to say about that.

[3:27:24] Thank you, Mayor Pro Temp, back to you, Councilmember Gillen, ever.

[3:27:30] Do other orange residents benefit from those services?

[3:27:35] If you're a bit prosecuted, then you benefit, because you get a public defense if you can't

[3:27:39] afford it.

[3:27:40] Yeah, I mean, all of those are regional entities that serve everyone at Orange County.

[3:27:44] do a job in airport. I should mention totally get that do other orange city residents pay 50% of the property

[3:27:52] tax yeah there's a property tax plan and everybody's it's the same it's the same it's your

[3:27:58] big witness that this was a scheme that was set up in the eighties that sort of memorialized hey this

[3:28:04] is how it's going to be going forward okay so there's no difference there's no difference okay that's

[3:28:09] As Mr. Morgan stated, you could go in and potentially negotiate a special deal because sometimes there's a fire sale going on and the county wants to get out of the island business.

[3:28:22] And I've seen that over the years at the county I'm working in the various departments and anything's negotiable.

[3:28:29] But that is the reason because the county operates a lot of a lot of agencies that are for the benefit of the whole public.

[3:28:36] Okay, so that makes sense to me that's the same property tax split that anyone else pays in the wish

[3:28:41] Then that makes sense to me. That's that was my question. Yep

[3:28:45] My my actual question was the Santiago. We have one other county Island. We have the Santiago Canyon

[3:28:52] dump site or former dump site and operating from 68 to mid-90s stopped

[3:29:00] You know, stop taking trash in at that point, and then it's been in, like, a venting program

[3:29:06] for a long time.

[3:29:10] What about that?

[3:29:11] I can ask sociolafko.

[3:29:12] I know we've talked to them about trying to improve that site, potentially for park uses, and

[3:29:18] they've taken it all the way up to their director, and there just has not been an interest there.

[3:29:23] They have concerns from a health perspective, but we can certainly ask them.

[3:29:27] It seems that's available.

[3:29:29] Right now, from based on what OSU lab goes showing us,

[3:29:32] it's just not listed as a county island in Orange,

[3:29:35] but we can always talk to them about that.

[3:29:37] No, it's county owned, but it's already within the city's

[3:29:41] jurisdiction.

[3:29:43] Got it.

[3:29:44] OK, that makes sense.

[3:29:45] Can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can,

[3:29:48] can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can, can.

[3:29:50] So although not specific to this discussion, I think we should do

[3:29:54] something or continue to work with them to figure out

[3:29:57] for that land, at this point the venting for most.

[3:30:00] So those landfills has already been done. So I would assume this one's got to be close, right? So just keep working with them.

[3:30:09] All right.

[3:30:13] Well, actually, Councillor Guterres, you were up earlier, did you want to go ahead of me? All right.

[3:30:19] So, sorry with the question on the bond pits. You may be two or three owners there, but when it comes to actually voting,

[3:30:30] It's only people that live have residency in any island that actually just makes credit

[3:30:38] But it or if it's if it's not inhabited then it's going to be who essentially has the lion's share of

[3:30:44] Who owns the most of the sets value of the property?

[3:30:48] I think in that case it would likely be the Orange County Water District. All right, good. Thank you

[3:30:54] Anyway, I'm glad to see this

[3:30:56] Come up for discussion

[3:30:58] And you know, when I look at the county islands and orange, it looks like a really bad Swiss

[3:31:06] cheese.

[3:31:08] In fact, a really, really bad Swiss cheese and the county islands quite frankly the way I

[3:31:16] see it are the poster children for the most government and efficiency that exists in the

[3:31:24] county where you have the olive heights, I mean there's no county islands anywhere near there

[3:31:32] so the county has to come in all the way in just to provide police and fire services

[3:31:38] and I'm sure it's probably covered by our fire just because we're there but you know police

[3:31:45] services and they share a fast to come in it's it's really really ridiculous in my opinion

[3:31:51] and extreme government efficiency as worse.

[3:31:57] So that being said, here's kind of how I see the islands.

[3:32:02] I'm going to start with orange park acres.

[3:32:06] I think we should exclude that for now.

[3:32:09] I think the first process that needs to take place there is we need to reach out

[3:32:14] to these residents and have a discussion.

[3:32:16] They need to know that we don't care that to change their situation with regard to their animals.

[3:32:25] It's been that way for a hundred years. Why not stay that way? I don't care.

[3:32:32] They need to know that we don't want to change their lifestyle. We want to preserve it.

[3:32:37] In fact, maybe we can help them enhance it somehow.

[3:32:41] Again, all for discussion,

[3:32:45] we need to talk about the maintenance of the

[3:32:48] Creege and the Creege.

[3:32:50] We need to talk about sewer connections.

[3:32:54] We need to talk about trash service, maybe we can provide them with more

[3:32:58] affordable trash service because I understand that's a problem.

[3:33:03] So I would suggest we put that one aside and start with a discussion with the

[3:33:10] leaders in orange park acres and ultimately we may decide that's just it's just not in the

[3:33:17] cards and that's fine you know they should live in peace and in harmony going up to the

[3:33:26] Lincoln and go sell I don't see that the need right now to pursue that I think it's it's fine

[3:33:37] It's Councilmember Barrio said, you know, we don't want to miss an opportunity in the future, certainly, but for the present time, I don't, I tend to agree with what I'm hearing from my colleagues to let that one go.

[3:33:52] The, um, all of heights, again, I mean, is this the 1800s? I mean, good grief. I mean, here's an island still sitting up there.

[3:34:02] Sure, let them keep it the way they want.

[3:34:06] I don't care.

[3:34:08] But again, to have county services have to come all the way

[3:34:11] in to service that island is inefficient.

[3:34:16] The bond pits, I think that's the clearest,

[3:34:22] that's a no-brainer in my book.

[3:34:25] That is a beautiful, beautiful open space

[3:34:28] is described by the Mayor of Pro Tem.

[3:34:30] That would be a crown jewel to have in the city of Orange,

[3:34:34] especially along our Sandial Creek corridor.

[3:34:38] The water district maintains it.

[3:34:41] The water district sounds like we'd probably appreciate

[3:34:43] the city taking some responsibility for policing there.

[3:34:48] There's not a lot there, and it's a lot of wildlife and birds.

[3:34:53] It's quite beautiful.

[3:34:55] And then we get down to the, uh, to Eladina Islands.

[3:35:00] That, really, to me, is the reason why we need to do this. And I'm anxious to hear your announcement. Good to hear us as to say about that.

[3:35:11] But to me, those islands have been a problem, quite frankly, for the city. They're still an active gang there, or more than one.

[3:35:26] There's code enforcement problems, the galore, graffiti, all the time, and it spreads out from that area and impacts the immediate orange neighborhoods.

[3:35:40] Again, maybe there's something that may be make El Medina special.

[3:35:47] Maybe let them have more of a design standards that are more suitable for El Medina's history.

[3:35:55] may be recognized as culture, but it seems to me that if we looked at Almadina islands at the same time, which might be a negative as far as revenue, and we looked at all of heights at the same time, it might be a gain as far as revenue.

[3:36:17] I think we need to all put it all in the mix, and so I have a motion that I worked on with the city manager that I'll just write it up to flag pull and we can massage it or think about it.

[3:36:34] But just for discussion sake, I'm going to move that the city council direct the city manager to pursue annexation of the Almadina, North Almadina, all of Hives.

[3:36:47] and San Diego Creek Bonpett County Islands into the city of Orange and to undertake the due

[3:36:54] diligence, negotiations, technical studies, and coordination with Orange County Lafco,

[3:37:02] the county of Orange, affected service providers, and other agency necessary to advance the

[3:37:10] annexations. I'd further move that staff shall fully evaluate and address the

[3:37:17] fiscal, infrastructure, service delivery,

[3:37:21] property tax, land use, environmental, legal,

[3:37:26] and transition issues associated with the annexations

[3:37:29] and seek terms that protect the city's financial

[3:37:33] and operational interests.

[3:37:36] Stascial advances work over the next six months.

[3:37:39] They return to the city council.

[3:37:41] By the way, we want to, by then,

[3:37:43] seeing if we are going to have the sales tax

[3:37:45] have passed or not.

[3:37:46] Statial advances work over the next six months, and we turn to the City Council, no later than

[3:37:52] February of 27 with an update recommended terms, and any actions or approvals necessary

[3:38:01] to continue and complete the annexation process.

[3:38:07] And a second, that mayor.

[3:38:08] Okay, we'll now move it.

[3:38:12] And further discussion, I would appreciate from the council.

[3:38:18] This is important steps.

[3:38:20] But first, council member, good tears.

[3:38:24] Thank you, Mayor.

[3:38:26] So thank you, I listened to all my colleagues.

[3:38:28] I wanted to listen to everybody had to say, and as you all know,

[3:38:32] that this is something that is near and dear to my heart,

[3:38:35] since when we first started on here in 2021.

[3:38:38] want. And so I appreciate that we're looking at all our islands in the

[3:38:45] well, our city. And as I feel about the islands in my immediate

[3:38:51] neighborhood, as the way Councilor Tauvelar is feels about her, that

[3:38:55] neighborhood. And your neighborhood as well. And you're right, I'm

[3:39:02] the in a has it's own identity, but it's been split into two. But we're

[3:39:06] We keep the same identity, we're half as in the city, half as in corporate, but we all speak the same language.

[3:39:13] We're the same both sides and you've cut us in half.

[3:39:17] And why I was done doesn't make sense, so we need to be whole.

[3:39:21] That's the number one thing.

[3:39:23] And I have no problem doing a survey, but I know a lot of my residents that live in unincorporated.

[3:39:29] A lot of them are my faculty, a lot of them are friends and people that I've known for ages.

[3:39:35] And they feel like they're part of the city of Orange.

[3:39:38] They're going to realize that they're unincorporated.

[3:39:40] And when they are, they question why they're not.

[3:39:43] And that fluidity of services, of continuity is much needed.

[3:39:48] Because you can't be driving up Hughes and hit Spring Street and you're in the county,

[3:39:53] and then you hit Chapman and you're in the city.

[3:39:56] And all kinds of different things occur in that continuity needs.

[3:40:00] We need to have them because things happen at La Careta and those residents that live on Pearl Street want to complain and don't get any help, neither from the county, and either from the city because there's this, we don't know where it belongs to.

[3:40:13] So, those things need to be clarified and if you're going down rails, you're, again, half of rails is in the county and half is in the city.

[3:40:23] And so you've got residents that, when you get to the county part, they're using such

[3:40:29] such trash and on the other side of the city, where is that continuity?

[3:40:32] It needs to be unified.

[3:40:35] And so to say that El Medina is giving you low property tax and all of the heights is giving

[3:40:42] you fantastic sales tax.

[3:40:43] That's true.

[3:40:44] But all of the heights, property tax is low than El Medina's property tax.

[3:40:50] And Almedina is going to give you some sales tax.

[3:40:52] Not going to be even done.

[3:40:54] We do have a little bit of commercial in the county pocket there.

[3:40:56] We've got boil local, we've got Chase,

[3:40:59] I mean Chase probably doesn't give us anything,

[3:41:01] but we'll boil local, bring some quite a bit.

[3:41:04] And we had the feed store and now they're doing something else there.

[3:41:08] And we're getting some sales tax.

[3:41:09] And you're getting nothing.

[3:41:13] And if we add it, you'll also, I don't know, I guess services don't count.

[3:41:16] because the more cherry also services is county.

[3:41:21] How, you know, I'm sorry, the church is,

[3:41:24] but yet the more cherry is city.

[3:41:26] Doesn't make sense.

[3:41:27] We took up when we annexed El Medina,

[3:41:30] and I'm not talking North El Medina,

[3:41:31] because North El Medina is not El Medina proper.

[3:41:34] So when you're talking about El Medina,

[3:41:37] and we annexed it, we made sure to take up

[3:41:39] all the good commercial.

[3:41:41] I mean, we even took the more cherry,

[3:41:43] but didn't take the church, doesn't make sense.

[3:41:45] So again, you're right, we all have our own identity, but

[3:41:49] Palmedina has been intact the entire time, but you've cut us in half.

[3:41:53] And we need to be meeting whole.

[3:41:55] And I would love to bring in North Elmina because that's also very strange when we talk about continuity

[3:42:00] of lines and services.

[3:42:03] And it doesn't make sense.

[3:42:05] Those people that live in North Elmina have issues with things happening on

[3:42:10] street and they can't get any help because county doesn't not out their regularity

[3:42:17] with their with their my thinking right now not public works but coming out to

[3:42:23] regulate what's going on with these big trucks that are parking what is going on

[3:42:26] with the sales of the of the vendors on the corner and a person that's coming

[3:42:31] from orange park acres is going to complain to the city hey why is there a vendor

[3:42:34] there why are these big trucks they're not knowing that doesn't belong to the city

[3:42:38] orange. So those are all things that would help us all with our services. And again, I appreciate

[3:42:44] Council Member Tomolar saying that she wants to study her area. And we should all want to study

[3:42:50] all these areas. And to say you're not willing to study El Medina, but you're willing to study

[3:42:55] all of heights as a little bit of an insult to me, Mayor Pro Tem. So I would appreciate a study to

[3:43:02] all of them, right? Obviously, OPA doesn't want to be in it. So that's fine. I'm completely fine

[3:43:07] without, but I would appreciate to be fair and study all of the islands that we've talked

[3:43:14] about.

[3:43:15] I mean, I think, wow, it was a bon pits I wouldn't even thought about bringing that

[3:43:19] into the city.

[3:43:20] I mean, but wow, if we could have that additional open space and water fantastic, but we

[3:43:27] need to help people, that's what we're here about service.

[3:43:30] And if I want to keep the art my identity where I live, then I need to bring in that other

[3:43:35] into the city because it's much needed and overdue and I want to know when we

[3:43:41] annexed back in 2002 you were on council. You were and when we brought in the

[3:43:48] 11 county islands who was on council mayor.

[3:43:53] I came in in December of 2002 who you were, Dennis wasn't here.

[3:43:59] Okay.

[3:44:00] Tells of our borrowers was here.

[3:44:02] No, not true.

[3:44:03] And 2002.

[3:44:05] Oh, I'm sorry.

[3:44:06] Oh, two.

[3:44:06] Joe, I know.

[3:44:07] It was Joe in, yeah, Mark.

[3:44:09] I went off like.

[3:44:11] Yeah, no.

[3:44:12] Yeah, but I mean, you might have been in the discussions

[3:44:14] of whatever.

[3:44:15] And when those 11 county islands were brought in,

[3:44:19] I'm certain that all the same thing was discussed, right?

[3:44:23] That people cost money.

[3:44:25] It's going to be a net negative, but yet you did it.

[3:44:29] Why now? Why is it so difficult to bring in these last few remaining islands, right?

[3:44:35] All of heights people, the El Medina, North El Medina, I understand, OPA is a rare gem,

[3:44:44] but they again need to be involved in the conversation and I have been asked by a lot of people in the

[3:44:51] El Medina area when are we going to be annexed? Why aren't we in the city?

[3:44:56] That doesn't make sense. How would I get help? They call me asking for help and I have to

[3:45:01] So, I agree. Let's do a study. Anna, I also agree if there's a survey. Why not? So, I didn't even know

[3:45:10] that Santiago Creek was an island. So, I'm completely fine. Do we need a study and all of them?

[3:45:16] But to pick at a fact that Melody does not have any property tax. That's a little bit of an insult.

[3:45:24] And I would appreciate that we do include it.

[3:45:28] Well, we'll find out, and as the passionate speech I was looking for, Council Member Gillin

[3:45:35] Hour.

[3:45:36] Yes, Mayor, this is my last question, is the survey piece, it wasn't in your motion.

[3:45:43] Would you be okay adding just part of this to be an actual survey of these areas?

[3:45:49] OPAs organized, they're here, they've made their, you know, their desires known, they're

[3:45:55] removed from this motion.

[3:45:56] like residents and some of these other areas may not have the organization, they may feel a certain way.

[3:46:02] They may not have been able to get here today.

[3:46:04] The size of OPA also dictates a completely different approach.

[3:46:09] But I hope you age not in the motion.

[3:46:11] I don't, I don't think it's because they're organized in here in communicating.

[3:46:14] But to give other residents an opportunity, can we include just a survey?

[3:46:19] Kathy.

[3:46:20] I'm sorry to interrupt you.

[3:46:22] Why don't we turn that around into community engagement?

[3:46:23] it because what the city manager said, I think it's the business I'm going to tell you

[3:46:28] ask a question sometimes and the survey can ask a question like, do you like rain?

[3:46:34] And I think that, if we go in face to face and have, that's a very different discussion.

[3:46:38] So I would say community engagement.

[3:46:40] I think that's where you're going to get some of the interesting things that Councilwoman

[3:46:44] because here I talked about with her area.

[3:46:49] I would just counter that with that.

[3:46:51] As the maker of the motion, I would say we need to do community outreach, but at a formal survey I don't think would be by the right approach, but I'm happy to hear what my colleagues have to say about it.

[3:47:07] Councillor Mayer to meet you again mayor I'm going to advocate for that survey I think it's

[3:47:14] important just this item alone tonight the public all the different county islands at six

[3:47:21] days got published Thursday afternoon and then they have today that's that's just not the right

[3:47:27] way to do business it's almost like you know a hostile takeover really and I appreciate actually

[3:47:34] I appreciate Council Member Gutierrez's speech.

[3:47:38] I think it's exactly what you said.

[3:47:40] It's the passion we all look for,

[3:47:44] but we do need to still survey the property owners

[3:47:47] to ensure that before we start chasing anything,

[3:47:51] that we're not gonna just spend staff time,

[3:47:55] spend fiscal resources that are critical right now.

[3:47:58] We don't have extra money to just spend,

[3:48:03] that we don't waste those funds and if it ends up being a non-starter.

[3:48:10] So I think the actual surveys and important aspect.

[3:48:14] I also remember tellers.

[3:48:22] To find out what's there and then we can decide, do some engagement and then we can know what questions

[3:48:27] to ask in the survey instead of do like it to rain or do like it to sunshine.

[3:48:33] I don't want to prejudice the residents and stuff that we don't even know yet.

[3:48:37] or maybe we don't know what LASCO has in their best practices.

[3:48:42] Again, I think if you survey people right now,

[3:48:44] it's going to be an overwhelming no because they're not going

[3:48:46] to know what entails, like the Councilman said about her area.

[3:48:52] I'm not against it in the future.

[3:48:54] I just think this is the first step in it.

[3:48:56] And I don't think it belongs in this motion.

[3:48:59] Thank you.

[3:49:00] Councillor Barrios.

[3:49:02] I'm going to agree with my colleague, Council Member Tappler,

[3:49:04] because of someone who does nothing but community outreach has a profession.

[3:49:09] We never start with the survey, unless you are trying to define, you know, kind of how

[3:49:14] the question should be asked, and I don't think that's what we're trying to get here.

[3:49:18] In fact, I think we're reverse engineering by going out to people and saying, not trying to

[3:49:23] scare them, which I have a hard time with this motion Mr. Mayor, because right off the

[3:49:32] Well, no, we're not.

[3:49:35] We actually aren't, what we are is pursuing a conversation.

[3:49:39] And I think if we made a less formal directive and said, let's keep all of these places

[3:49:45] in, because I want, you know, Jack, I don't need to say your first name, I should be more

[3:49:50] professional.

[3:49:51] But I want you to go talk to Ms. Penetta and say, what do I need to know if we're ever talking

[3:49:57] about OPA or Mr. White Feather.

[3:50:00] I say, what don't I know about these areas? But also go out and talk to the Arginoble family and say, what

[3:50:07] really is the sticking point? Is there some other place that we could be at? So that we have

[3:50:12] that broader world view before and then come back and say, okay, these ones really

[3:50:16] are non-stargers. We're just, you know, and talk with these folks too, who know our area, like,

[3:50:23] you know, Councilmember Gutierrez, who could probably walk you to all the people you need to

[3:50:27] to in our neighborhood. So I think we need like a baby step first. I completely agree that there should be a survey,

[3:50:36] but as the first step, you're just going to get shut down and then it's going to be for non. And then again,

[3:50:42] I go back to probably we do this in February when you do know you have the time and resources for it, but that's my point.

[3:50:49] Thank you.

[3:50:52] I'm going to try this motion without a survey initially and see how that goes.

[3:51:02] And if it doesn't make it, then certainly we could consider other motions or perhaps continuing

[3:51:07] it even until next February, but I think we've put this off along enough.

[3:51:13] So with that, I'm sorry.

[3:51:21] So I'd use this.

[3:51:23] Well, I'd use the engagement piece, but just not a formal survey.

[3:51:27] And the second of their motion is final.

[3:51:29] Thank you.

[3:51:32] I'm going to call for the vote.

[3:51:50] Motion passes five to two with council members, barrios, and to meet you voting no.

[3:51:56] All right.

[3:51:57] We have one more item,

[3:52:01] and it should be brief.

[3:52:03] I am 9.3.

[3:52:04] Results of the Independent Accountants report on the agreed upon procedures for payroll.

[3:52:10] I will ask our colleagues if you would like a staff report on this.

[3:52:17] I'm not seeing anyone jumping up and down.

[3:52:21] Is there any speakers?

[3:52:23] I'm not seeing any remote speakers?

[3:52:27] No, Mayor.

[3:52:28] Have a motion from Council Member Gutierrez.

[3:52:31] We have a second from Council Member Barrios.

[3:52:34] Any further discussion?

[3:52:44] Mr. Mayor,

[3:52:47] if I might, I just wanted to thank staff at this was a really, I really enjoyed reading this report and I know it sounds dumb, but I just wanted to thank you for all the hard work on this.

[3:52:57] Good, good comments, thank you.

[3:53:06] Motion is approved unanimously.

[3:53:08] The next regular city council meeting will be held on Tuesday, September 8, 2020, 6, 6, 6pm and the council chamber closed session began at 5pm if necessary.

Orange City Council

Agenda

Transcript