[0:05] Question order here for Tuesday, May 28, at 6 p.m., our roll call looks like we're missing councilmember Schultz this evening. Number three approval left tonight's agenda. Look for a motion.

[0:19] So moved.

[0:20] We got a motion by councilmember Vickerman to approve tonight's work session agenda zero second.

[0:25] Second.

[0:26] Any further discussion?

[0:29] All those opposed?

[0:33] Portia pass is 3 to 0.

[0:35] four discussion items for a discuss city facilities update.

[0:42] Just some background the last work session that we talked about but this topic we had a

[0:48] running total of about seven and a half million for a tool level building.

[0:52] There's some direction from councils.

[0:54] as far as to get better numbers.

[0:56] See where we're at?

[0:57] I think I emailed council, at least some of that information

[1:01] from Ortel Architects.

[1:03] They're here tonight also.

[1:05] Basically, Todd and I sat down and said, OK,

[1:07] there's two versions to this building.

[1:09] There's a two level and a one level building.

[1:11] There's some price points as far as where that building is at.

[1:15] And I guess what I'm asking for is just some clear direction

[1:18] in which way you'd like us to go.

[1:20] also keeping in mind that we are kind of at the end of our contract with

[1:25] Oratel as far as the needs assessment and so we need to start walking down a

[1:32] different path which Dan's here to kind of talk to us about. Also I'll put

[1:38] him up here on the board the different versions and kind of how what those costs

[1:41] are and so I'd ask for some direction as far as cost what you're willing.

[1:49] There's

[1:50] to as far as bonding and some of the rates and some of those things.

[1:54] And so we're really going to have to spend some money down the road here soon.

[2:03] Also, just for public info, I guess, is the money we asked for from the government,

[2:10] or for the bonding bill didn't go through since we didn't have a bonding bill.

[2:14] And so I wanted to ask for some direction as far as those contracts.

[2:17] if we move forward with these plans and Dan will kind of go into that will cost some money that we really were hoping it would come out of that bonding bill.

[2:30] So since that didn't pass, I guess we'll have to, I wanted to have a discussion about where we want to go from here.

[2:37] Okay, so I'll start with Dan and I'm going to just put up one of the, which one do you have up the two level or one level?

[2:59] So last time I was here, we talked about a little option and it was like seven and a half

[3:06] billion and it was an hour earlier where it was three and a half billion.

[3:12] Curious as to where that discrepancy came from. So we talked to our estimator and he dealt into it and he was

[3:22] overestimating this option,

[3:24] kind of using some rough square footage numbers

[3:26] that were not directly reflective

[3:28] of the large garage space,

[3:30] which is a cheaper space to construct.

[3:33] And then the previous option,

[3:35] kind of under-evaluing some things.

[3:38] So this one, he went through

[3:39] and he went much deeper,

[3:41] broke it all down by construction,

[3:44] division specification.

[3:47] And you can see here that if we're looking at this two,

[3:49] this two-plan option, that total project with the permit, GC fees and bonds, design fee and a

[3:58] decent contingency is right around a $6 million project.

[4:04] Then Sean and I talked, he can go to the

[4:09] next page, reduce some square footages, pull some things out to try to chase a one-story option.

[4:20] We go on one floor,

[4:26] provide some public parking, provide a fenced-in area for staff parking,

[4:33] put less squads in the garage, shrink down the Sally Port, shrink down some offices,

[4:43] and then some spaces just disappear altogether.

[4:47] And that all in, we're looking at about 3.5 million,

[4:53] which I think it's as closer to a project

[4:57] that can go forward.

[5:00] Mr. Mayor. Could you tell me a little bit about what how does this square footage for the one level design compare to what we currently have.

[5:13] Currently you have.

[5:19] I want to say it's the neighborhood of 3,000 square feet. Yeah, it's about 3,200 square feet. And that's with those couple with those few garage bays. The footprint of the existing

[5:41] So again, when both the tenant can see and you looked at these, do you feel like this was giving the number of spaces that you needed?

[5:52] I know there's a lot of double uses in some of the different areas throughout this building.

[6:00] How did that seem to the two of you in terms of space?

[6:06] Okay well the first the first couple things that we're struggling with was just how

[6:11] that building is situated on that lot it's really hard to fit a garage and

[6:15] then it's hard I worry a little bit about coming out onto an alley with

[6:19] squad cars in and out and so that was our only direction coming in and out of

[6:24] that facility is through you know that area onto the alley and the only other

[6:31] other way is to flip it, but then you're getting some issues with size and having parking

[6:37] spaces.

[6:38] Also, when you look at the current building there and the drying, and you look by the

[6:44] locker rooms, like those walls can't be taken out.

[6:47] So we can't create bigger spaces with them, we can't, you know, it's just kind of the way

[6:51] that building is set up, because I asked if we can-

[6:55] that dark, that dark, that darker thicker wall separating the like the office space from

[7:00] those two lockers. That's probably a load bearing wall, structural wall and some capacity.

[7:07] We can, we can punch holes in it, but we can't just load out.

[7:11] And our other struggle was, we really wanted to have an emergency operation and currently

[7:19] the way one level is built. It's almost the same size as what we have now.

[7:24] And so we're really taking a training room and squishing it down.

[7:28] I mean there's a couple feet different, but it's not a huge amount with the other two story.

[7:34] And that's something I've, you know, we've been going back and forth.

[7:37] How do we, because there was some comment made about well, can we build it?

[7:42] So it can be built two stories someday with a one level version right now.

[7:48] The problem you run into if you look on that second version or the two story version you have.

[7:53] of an elevator area and stairwells,

[7:57] well those take up spaces and right now

[7:59] with this current one level version,

[8:01] we wouldn't be able to go up at any point.

[8:04] There's no space to put anything

[8:06] because everything's packed in there.

[8:08] Now, you know, something I've learned

[8:10] over these last few weeks is this is a bird's eye view.

[8:14] So we're getting down in a minutiae of like room sizes

[8:17] and things like that.

[8:18] I don't know if this would be the end result

[8:21] of what we're looking at as far as a one level building it could we could move

[8:26] things around or at least try and but we're kind of at that the needs

[8:31] assessment and this is does it fit our needs I don't know yet just the way it

[8:37] looks no doesn't mean things can't be moved and grooved with but it's hard when

[8:44] you have an already a building that's on a piece of property can't move that

[8:47] building to make it fit better and use the space more wisely since we're going to keep that

[8:53] building and not demolish it. So we're kind of stuck with the size of the lot. We're stuck with

[8:58] the building we have and then trying to outfit it. Considered the plan is sort of proving concept.

[9:07] Kind of this is the sort of space that we're targeting. These are the spaces that we're targeting.

[9:11] this is how it can fit on site.

[9:15] And that's where I'm looking for direction.

[9:17] Do we want to go to levels?

[9:19] You know, there's always things we can do

[9:21] and we get to the minutiae.

[9:23] Say, wait, I'm building this room or that room

[9:25] or maybe we don't outfit this or that.

[9:28] But do we want to be on a one level space or a two level space?

[9:32] Which do you prefer?

[9:34] And then I think some important things are emergency operation

[9:38] do we, you know, do we go without one for a while, or do we re outfit something here at City Hall?

[9:44] You know, there's different looks at that.

[9:47] To me, I think it should be at the police department, but that's just my opinion.

[9:51] That's not my, you know, I'm not making these decisions, but I really need directions in pricing.

[9:57] And one level or two level is kind of where we're at.

[10:10] We're not going to go with this chair and cut price there. That fixture, or we're not there yet. This is kind of an overall look at what we're looking at as far as a police building.

[10:22] What kind of big, big items, which is just building square footage, really?

[10:27] Are there any just huge sticking points with, you know, like, 88 compliance when the sidewalk is just the buildings right up on the sidewalk, and you can barely get by and, you know, like you were saying, it's not, maybe not a great idea to have squads exiting through an alley, like are any of these so such major roadblocks that we, it's no longer viable at all.

[10:53] depending on what I think if you did a two level building and we figured out

[10:59] some parking issues and maybe flip the building around a little bit yeah we

[11:02] could probably make it work. One level you're gonna be the only way we can get

[11:06] the garage to fit correctly would probably be the way it is right now I don't see a

[11:10] way to come out on the first avenue which is probably where we should be

[11:14] coming from to make that work as well especially on a one level when we don't have

[11:19] the space to put it on that lot. But, again, that's my opinion. Dan, am I?

[11:26] No, I think that, you know, the thing that we've been really working through this whole process

[11:35] is just getting squad cars in and out in a way that makes sense. Like, we had worked on plans where

[11:43] there's a whole new building on this site and the police stayed here and then we had fire trucks pulling

[11:49] out and squads pulling in and out but then also the public coming in and trying to get all

[11:54] that fit and that was a nightmare. And now we're on this site here which has that alley, which

[12:02] is tricky because it's, you know, they're going to be people twodling down that alley going to their

[12:09] businesses when a squad comes whipping in or whipping out and we can do some things to get them emptying

[12:16] out on either street, that street to the south, they'd be pulling out right next to the

[12:23] alley. I think that's basically the street. It would be basically them being on the alley,

[12:28] you know. So ideally, they'd be going out to the east there,

[12:36] which you have in that

[12:37] two-story option thing that gets tricky with finding public and staff parking. So they would

[12:45] be off the alley, but then the front door of the facility is kind of the back door

[12:50] of the facility and that these are all things that can be worked out as we get into more

[12:55] detail, but it's a it's a small site and you know we were really looking for kind of

[13:03] an open concept and that might not work if we're going to be having staff or customers

[13:08] coming off the alley because you can see if they're coming off the alley we've got those

[13:13] two walls we can't take out where the men's and women's locker room is.

[13:17] We could switch our front door to there, but the problem is we're not going to be able to see each other.

[13:22] You know, that was just something I was looking for because Felicia and all of staff,

[13:27] the way it's set up can kind of see each other.

[13:28] We're all working in the same space.

[13:30] We're all kind of together and that was important to me, but again,

[13:35] that would be something would change if we had to come put the front door on the back side

[13:40] or the other side of the building

[13:42] because those walls can't be removed.

[13:49] Just to be obvious, what is this big building

[13:52] that and where do you get in here?

[13:54] Yeah, I mean, and we had parking in the backside.

[13:56] So in one of our drawings, we had parking here

[14:00] when the front door all the way over here.

[14:02] Yeah, so then it's like, well, where do they get a lock

[14:04] all the way up?

[14:05] You know, if they're gonna actually park

[14:06] and a parking lot.

[14:07] Not saying there's not street parking

[14:09] or on street parking, but there it is.

[14:14] And so we were, we had taken one of the versions

[14:16] was to like this one where the parking's more towards the front on this one level.

[14:21] But then you take away that big portion of the lot.

[14:26] That's the most open and so there's just, there's nothing overwhelming in my mind that we can't figure out.

[14:36] I don't want to dive into particulars, I'd just, I'd like some general guidance.

[14:42] and then we'll come back with more later and guidance on what your next steps are

[14:47] or whether we move forward and then kind of if you want to put a price tag on it

[14:53] or if you want to that would be great for me.

[15:00] Mr. Mayor. Always a struggle. Come

[15:05] to these meetings and I'm either absent or I'm pre-quiet. I have not heard one positive thing in the public about splitting off our police department. There's a huge, I've had a lot of people come to me, face, face, email, phone calls, and

[15:32] we go back to our original challenges.

[15:37] We're making decisions for all of us, you know, it's not just for what we think is right and what.

[15:51] I'm having a hard time with this because if we're going to spend three, five, seven, whatever we're going to spend,

[16:01] and we need to make it right and not

[16:08] back down in what we need and what is practical.

[16:18] I wouldn't even think of putting squad cars out on an alley and

[16:25] if

[16:30] we put them out

[16:30] on first there too, that's an uncontrolled intersection, we can change that at first

[16:36] and third but people travel kind of fast through there. There's a lot of

[16:43] things still to think of when we look at the money side of this one of our

[16:51] options in packet was to look at the city tax but there as we all know and we've

[17:01] spoke before, there's more. Torium, that's very futuristically looking.

[17:10] Best possible

[17:12] hope would be to get in on some bonding for next year. And there again, it's hurry up

[17:24] and wait.

[17:27] Myself, I'm not inclined to,

[17:34] at this time,

[17:36] go a whole lot further with something

[17:40] that we're feeling like this might not work.

[17:46] This won't be so great.

[17:48] We might not be able to do the build out on this.

[17:52] I'm just really conflicted.

[17:54] I also

[17:58] had some issues, I was one that brought this forward, but first time we looked at this,

[18:05] it was $3,000,000 and then we looked at it differently the next time and it was excessively

[18:16] more and then it was, I understand that there was a difference in your estimator or what

[18:25] But I'm sorry, but when you're selling $1 million deals, there's no room for an estimator to be off on it, in my opinion.

[18:37] Seeing up here, I can't accept that.

[18:42] So, Mr. Mayor, those are my comments.

[18:53] I agree with some of your points there.

[18:55] I think, you know, if we're going to do this, we want to do it right, and we want it to be something that

[19:01] the community can be proud of and get behind and we don't want to make so many

[19:07] concessions in how it doesn't really work and also put a huge price tag on it.

[19:13] You know wherever those funds end up coming from we still need to spend them

[19:17] really wisely and make it something that can can last a long time and I'm just

[19:23] not sure that we're we're seeing really good viable options that that can

[19:29] meet that criteria.

[19:33] But I guess I don't even know if one story or two story is

[19:37] is a decision we can come to because I don't see that either of them necessarily

[19:44] works the way we would really need it to.

[19:57] What are your thoughts, Mr. Mayor?

[20:00] No, I just struggle with the layout, struggle with the site.

[20:06] Yeah,

[20:19] they need a room. I know how do we solve that and I don't have an answer for that right now.

[20:32] Well, the other pieces, we needed to see this in order to think about this. And just looking at a chunk of land, you can say, oh, well, there, we could do it there. But this really breaks down for me in a way that I feel like we would put a lot into it.

[20:52] and it still wouldn't really do what we needed to do because there's an existing building and

[20:58] walls you can't move and it doesn't really, it doesn't meet all of the wish list or even all

[21:06] the things that we can work within and still getting ultimately what you need. And safe coming

[21:13] and going is probably the number one thing and also a welcoming entry to anybody who needs to come

[21:22] in and and those are the things that I just don't I don't know that they're

[21:26] achievable on that site with how it is now just being able to walk up to the

[21:33] front door is currently difficult and doesn't we can't change it.

[21:59] Is the on the

[22:02] two-level does the garage area also become a two-level like it's a one story

[22:10] It's a one-floor garage and then over that garage.

[22:13] Okay.

[22:14] We'll sit on top of that.

[22:16] Okay.

[22:17] So we filled out basically half the garage.

[22:19] Okay.

[22:20] Half the roof.

[22:21] Okay.

[22:28] And this is first half, right over here.

[22:33] Yeah.

[22:38] One of the reasons behind the design was to allow use of the fitness center on the second floor,

[22:47] along with the training room and you'll see without coming through the police

[22:52] departments that gives us rental space at least up with the training room and

[22:56] things like that so people can come and go without having to be fingerprinted

[23:00] and see BCA compliance because that's the other thing that runs hot within

[23:05] policing is that we have to have so much compliance and we can't have people

[23:10] walking through just to walk through like at more of a city hall you can walk

[23:15] around but with BCA you have to be fingerprinted and backgrounded to work in there so all of our contractors are that have keys, anybody that comes through so it did give us that other entry with the elevator and that, you know, that's why we went to one level because that's one of the biggest price tag items was that elevator space.

[23:39] The problem is, as you can tell, again, our entry is on the other side, the parking is

[23:46] on the other, you know, for public parking is on the other side.

[23:50] Now, we did try and looked at possibly, again, moving kind of where you see the Sally

[23:58] Port in the garage, kind of where you can see the dotted line where our second story would

[24:05] be that there would be public parking there, a gated area, again, kind of like that for staff

[24:12] parking, so we didn't have as much of a garage. And then the second story on top, a little

[24:17] bit kitty want this, but you know, because if you see that that design, you can see we have

[24:27] the entry reception area, interview rooms, everything's all one flow. So having that, flipping

[24:33] that to the other side would be very difficult to have that same flow if you have a volume.

[24:43] There's more work that we could do if we knew what would look right.

[24:54] These are, again, just concept plans, so they're just more big pictures.

[25:01] Things could be moved and Rubik's cubed and moved around obviously still, but that would be moving on to the next step. We could

[25:13] modify the contract to go into schematic design where we would really heavily work on the plans and work with Shane and his staff to really develop them and come up with some hard options, but that would be where we would go from here.

[25:33] And we could just do that next step, and then stop.

[25:46] Mr. Rant, I'm very hesitant to put much more money that we have not really budgeted for

[25:58] into plans that, so far in a year's time where we're still kind of struggling to get the basics.

[26:10] What

[26:14] I'm showing you is above and beyond what we've, is above and beyond our contract.

[26:21] I'm showing rooms here so that we can have more of a conversation and so you can,

[26:29] better understand the kind of space needs.

[26:33] So please don't get caught up on this room is here and that room is there.

[26:40] I see barriers each way in one of the biggest barriers I see is the funding.

[26:50] You know, we can't ask for aid and go with bonding.

[26:56] We have to see a legislature that lifts this moratorium on city tax to be able to put

[27:04] that on and

[27:10] I

[27:12] just I have a real hard time and I have a hard time when like I said earlier

[27:20] this is millions of dollars and to hear an estimator that doesn't fly real well with

[27:31] me. I'm not comfortable at this point moving forward when we don't have a secure funding

[27:44] plan and I don't feel these actually meet our needs.

[27:59] Mayor, the one thing I have found through my research and talking to different architects

[28:04] The facts and stuff is that we do to get state funding, we have to have an actual down to the nuts and bolts plan.

[28:12] That's just something I'll throw out there that we have to have that to get state funding.

[28:17] I've also been told, not again, I might be speaking out of turn is that next year there won't be a bonding bill that every two years.

[28:23] So it might not be until 2026, I don't know if they're going to redo it since they didn't get one.

[28:28] Every year there can be a bonding bill, it's just a matter this one didn't get passed.

[28:32] Okay, and so the same thing happened last year.

[28:35] Yep, and so they were, I know I've talked to different people like the city of Wyoming has been waiting.

[28:42] They've been on the bonding bill in the last two years, but they have their book.

[28:46] Is that what you call it?

[28:48] Yeah, there's a document, a state pre-design document that needs to be developed and submitted to get the money from the state.

[28:59] You can go and get on the bonding bill without the pre-designed document, but to get the money you need a pre-designed document.

[29:06] Which is a toll.

[29:10] And that's where, you know, we are kind of standing as what we do next.

[29:15] Because if we want to get state funding, we have to move forward in some aspect to put that together.

[29:22] or if we want to wait I'm asking so that's kind of what I learned today is that

[29:30] there's a book that you need or a plan and you have to have a pretty

[29:34] formidable plan put together knowing what the like a

[29:37] Council member Holstrom said was you know kind of having the specs and the

[29:41] amounts and what we're putting in there and we can't bond for it obviously and get

[29:45] paid back we can't do that but we have to have that plan so they know exactly

[29:50] what we're asking for. We can't go in there with just, you know, some information on a sheet.

[29:57] And so that's why I really would like to...

[30:00] I'd like to, at some point, soon is to figure out if we want to get on next year's bonding bill that we would have to do that fairly soon, because there's a lot of work ahead of us to get that together to submit to the state even to make sure that that's ready.

[30:16] And I know there's a lot of cities that have been waiting and putting in for it. So,

[30:23] and again, I mean, we, you know, I'm sorry, damn, but it doesn't mean we have to do this with or tell either. So, I mean, if there's questions on that, there's that question too.

[30:32] You know, they're sorry, but they're one of many, you know, we've had a great working relationship, but you know, those are things that I can, we can move down the road too.

[30:46] Mayor.

[30:47] How many, how many steps would you say we are away from being up to having a really,

[30:57] really pretty solid plan going? So we decide one floor or two floors.

[31:04] We need a budget to aim for, what, you know, what are you comfortable asking for?

[31:14] Because the state wants, the state doesn't, the state doesn't want to fund the whole thing,

[31:19] they want to fund a percentage.

[31:21] And they want you to back that other percentage, you know, they want the city to have skin in

[31:28] the game.

[31:28] So, you know, if you do 50% and the state does 50% where, how much, what's your dollar

[31:37] amount on that 50% so then we can target that as we work through plans, then we meet

[31:47] with Shane and Todd and we try to really dial this in so that we're, you know,

[31:56] so that

[31:57] we try to mail it. That's going to take a few rounds, a few options to get through, but

[32:04] we get that plan ironed out, we have that budget, we know how much we're going to ask from

[32:13] the state, and then I'll work with Shane to develop the pre-design document, which is a

[32:21] fair amount of work. I think we usually, it's a fair amount of work. And that,

[32:32] so those

[32:33] are the three things that we have to iron out. And if you have, what's to get all of

[32:40] those three, that's a very compelling presentation to the state. We'll say that if you do decide

[32:46] If I had to go to Chase State Funding, we have to meet the Sustainability Requirements B3 which is a mandate for all state funder projects.

[32:59] It's a set of sustainability guidelines that are quite stringent and they have this whole online tracking tool, it's hundreds of items which will add cost to the project.

[33:16] And some things will be able to accommodate and some things we just won't be able to do like one of the things.

[33:21] Give an example of what.

[33:23] Yeah, like one of the things that you require is a pond for wildlife that will always have water in it.

[33:33] Obviously on this site, that's not feasible, like there's literally no space.

[33:39] That requires us to meet energy consumptions called SB 2030,

[33:45] which is like an 80% reduction in energy usage from like the 2012 standard.

[33:55] Things get very technical very quickly, but so if I say it's stringent.

[34:02] We'd be putting solar panels on the roof.

[34:06] We'd be going air source heat pumps to try to not use natural gas as much as we can.

[34:12] use renewables as much as we can, and on and on and on and on.

[34:19] Since they're also prevailing wage then, too.

[34:25] I don't know, I don't know on that one I can't speak to.

[34:32] I believe that if there's state federal or county funding, it's prevailing wage on a project.

[34:46] I guess I'm just a little bit worried that our upfront investment could end up kind of being for not and I don't want to go too much further if that's the direction we feel like we're going

[35:00] You know, we needed to see this. We needed to get an idea.

[35:06] But I'm just not sure that that site can never live up to what we need for this.

[35:27] So we're going to do it right. We're not going to not put what we need into it. They're a different site in the city that you would like us to investigate.

[35:39] I don't have another sign.

[35:47] Somewhat landlocked.

[35:52] Is there a different usage for this building that you would like us to investigate at one

[35:58] time we had looked at, like pushing the community center and library over here to free up space

[36:06] in this facility, does that that would not free up enough space here to you know make that

[36:15] exchange equal?

[36:16] Right.

[36:21] The other thing is, if we would do something like that, as we've talked before, parking

[36:31] becomes an issue with Community Center.

[36:46] Are we significantly different financially if we demoed that building and started over

[36:57] on the site?

[37:05] building is built quite solidly and it's got a good bones to work from. It's concrete

[37:13] block walls and big joys that span the whole thing. It's nice open clear space to work

[37:20] with. We are assuming that we have to put a new roof on.

[37:29] I'm assuming that the building

[37:32] installation, it's EFIS, that that installation isn't sufficient, that does not meet current

[37:43] building code so that we would have to do some work with you know the the

[37:52] building needs some love but it's still you

[37:59] know where that line is between

[38:01] how much do you put into fixing the building and how much is that saved versus

[38:06] tearing it down is fuzzy line. One

[38:36] level concept is we're just trying to make it

[38:38] work, and it's not fulfilling our needs. Two levels is kind of there, but it's

[38:46] so a long way for where it needs to be.

[38:58] I think the two level would work, but we would be

[39:01] then we're putting ourselves in the higher price range.

[39:11] I'd feel much better if we had a city tax

[39:19] availability even, moratorium gets lifted that we can apply and do through the

[39:26] legislature with that. I feel better having a source to go much further because

[39:33] we could have the top of the line plans ready to go for the stay and be in the

[39:40] place we are today for preliminary design, and I'm

[39:55] sounding like a broken record so I think I'll

[39:58] Quick.

[40:02] Yeah, I think I'm at the point, too, or I don't, I don't see a way to move forward right now because even if even if we put in the investment to get this really dialed in, like you said, there's still, we still don't have the money to put in our half and we don't have any information on when we can submit this to the state to get on a bonding bill that never passes.

[40:35] Hopefully it passes someday, but like, you know, so far hasn't been good.

[40:41] And long enough that some cities have many, many projects on that bonding bill.

[40:52] Question 2 and then I mean what does the police do, none of this goes, what are the, what are the options?

[41:00] You're looking at it, we're going to stay where we are.

[41:05] We've got no other options unless we decide to put up some temporary shelters somewhere, but that.

[41:11] Well, I was a question. I was wondering if there are, you know, there's plenty of companies

[41:18] that supply satellite temporary basis that that really doesn't fit well with the security

[41:28] we need in the things that we need. We can't really be in a temporary place. Plus, as we found

[41:34] out in 2020, that doesn't work well. Having temporary space if something were to happen, we're

[41:40] just, you know, I call away as far as the department. So does

[41:48] ASEO own this building?

[42:02] We're such a unique fit for a city because of our

[42:07] responsibilities and because of our security that we have to

[42:10] have so different than anybody else. That's why when we talked

[42:15] about demoing here and trying to put us somewhere, there's

[42:19] almost nowhere to go. It's so hard to find a secure place at

[42:23] we can use.

[42:30] So we would just be stacking people on top of people for a while.

[42:47] Yeah, I guess there's maybe only one other property nearby here that I could

[42:52] think of that we could consider looking into retrofitting and and we're

[42:59] still looking at a building that's too expensive for us to do that in.

[43:07] Yeah,

[43:11] okay.

[43:11] this one.

[43:16] I think the price tag is pretty high. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

[43:27] the gun club. That's what I was, yeah.

[43:32] And just in terms of access and being part of a campus and and all of that, you know.

[43:40] But I think the price tag is almost what we're looking at. It's what we're looking at. Yeah, right,

[43:44] for the one-level building. I think just to purchase, that's not even outfitting it. Yeah.

[43:52] Now you've got lead and all that in there too, especially with all the shooting that has

[43:58] gone on.

[43:58] So there's some serious cleanup stuff we'd have to do too.

[44:09] I don't mean to push, but I'd like to have some direction if you guys, whatever it is,

[44:14] come back later.

[44:16] That's kind of what I'm hearing.

[44:16] I don't know if that's true or not.

[44:21] I think I'm at an impasse as far as giving direction and move forward on one or two is

[44:31] kind of a move point for me I guess at this point because I don't I don't see it

[44:34] working. You worried about price or just for... I'm worried about the space

[44:40] itself, the accessibility, the actually having the layout that we need.

[44:54] We get

[44:55] creative to go after the price point we need.

[45:01] Everything else needs to be good. I mean, not settling. Like you said, we need to get a revenue source going so that we can start to make some of those estimations. And we don't, we can't start that revenue source yet. So. Because we have an idea of what bonding for it and where we can go.

[45:27] But then that, that locks us in.

[45:31] And as a tax issue, and I'm not going there.

[46:03] I feel like we're shoe horning this in here.

[46:24] Well, can we just put a pause on it for now?

[46:27] Can we not give an answer?

[46:29] And just say it's not working for us right now.

[46:33] We've got to get some funding sources in place.

[46:36] I think that all leads to then this isn't working and we cancel the purchase agreement we just cancel all at this point

[46:44] That's what that's what ends up

[46:46] Is

[46:49] that what you're all saying not to purchase that property even for future development or

[46:58] Was that I don't I wasn't here so right this table we talked about it

[47:03] I

[47:06] don't know that for for me without having something else on the table. I would be more likely to

[47:12] to recent on the purchase as opposed to trying to come up with a different idea that we also don't have plans set up for yet.

[47:23] And it was always kind of the issue that we toiled over as what could we use this for?

[47:29] What could be future development?

[47:30] It could be some sort of income space but we're just not, we're not landing on something that makes a lot of sense.

[47:38] It's in the

[47:48] purchase, would you like me to take another stab at

[47:54] making it fit, making

[47:57] it work?

[47:59] Well, you can without picking up the building and rearranging it on the lot.

[48:11] We're

[48:17] not getting, you know, what we hope and as it can serve our needs long term, that's

[48:25] the struggle.

[48:27] Are we just kind of making it, making it kind of work?

[49:05] table it make it a full full council discussion.

[49:12] Yeah we can do that.

[49:16] There's not the step forward is from here.

[49:24] We can definitely do that would be we

[49:26] can have it is that your direction table it and then throw it. Yeah have a

[49:32] full council discussion. I would agree to that. Well thank

[49:45] you. Thank you. I'll be in

[49:47] contact. All right four B discuss interim city administrative position and

[49:56] of

[49:56] a donor at everybody. I don't know if I want to have this this

[50:03] So I guess my future plans, I, you know, this, I was put in the interim spot and kind of looking for some guidance from you as far as where to go from here. What your thoughts are for me. This is more of a personal thing, I guess, but I'd like to have a public discussion about it.

[50:28] So I know I'm interim. Do that way for a period of time. Do you have thoughts on the future?

[50:38] I mean,

[50:42] depending on how deep you feel like going here, I know that there were also some,

[50:49] you know, possible deterrence for you in terms of being a full-time administrator versus staying

[50:58] being a cop.

[50:59] So, you know, that in my mind has always been, it's remained part of the question, is, you

[51:07] is that even right for you or if it's if it's something you want to really go

[51:16] after we can we can make a job posting and and and find a candidate and do an

[51:24] interview process but I'm at least for me what I was wondering was is this is

[51:31] Is this for you? Does it mess up other future planning in your life?

[51:37] The only way I would stay is if it did both.

[51:41] So that would be just future planning would be both positions.

[51:50] And that could be for a period of time and a re-evaluation, which I've heard some discussion

[51:54] on, or that can be, we can have that discussion in the future, near future. I guess I'm just

[52:01] kind of looking for some guidance on that.

[52:05] H.R. Committee had any meetings to?

[52:10] My understanding was it was going to go to risk management for contract kind of and

[52:18] I don't know if risk management has met or not.

[52:27] We have, you know, and chief laid out some requests, you know, I think did you circulate

[52:37] that?

[52:41] Follow-up summary of, you know, some of our discussions at that meeting, you know,

[52:50] obviously

[52:51] with everything we have going on, do we just stabilize for a little bit?

[52:59] get through some of these projects, obviously, this was one of them, but this is not the same

[53:06] like it's going to be going, but.

[53:14] Mr. Mayor, this too is something, and I apologize.

[53:24] Last week took a lot of hours in my place with my committees and what I serve on took a lot

[53:35] of my hours last week in getting through this package packet and studying it and really

[53:42] studying it. I left the work session to last and unfortunately I guess I expected something

[53:53] a little bit more focus that had come through budget and finance to be able to, or risk management

[54:06] excuse me.

[54:10] And I'd still like to see that. I'd like risk management and I'd like it to come

[54:19] with the full council to, and

[54:26] I think that risk management would be able to work out a lot of the questions that both sides might have.

[54:36] But of what was in that email, what was the feeling on that, was that the direction that people are comfortable with?

[54:49] You know, I think that's where this was on, this is kind of the direction, this is the discussions or people comfortable with that,

[54:57] or hell no, we don't want that at all.

[55:00] I mean, that's kind of more of why that was brought here to a work session rather than a formal package presented at a council meeting where an action needs to be done. So, we're now this has had the discussion. These are kind of some of the directions outlines, you know, some of their questies looking forward to that protects you on the police side still with the pension and everything.

[55:24] and there's this pyramid stuff there to be able to handle this.

[55:29] Can we have a date on that email so I can look through it?

[55:33] It's not the one I thought it was, so it's not the one I thought it was, so I don't know if I've...

[55:39] Give me one second.

[55:40] I'm in May early this.

[55:46] Like, delicious.

[55:51] Email up because it dains every time I get an email.

[56:27] We only got a couple of emails, it would be so much easier.

[56:32] We're just stuff about the website here.

[56:35] Well, I guess if we're talking about is it a dual role, I guess I don't I don't really

[56:42] think that a dual role is sustainable for a long term.

[56:50] You know, if there are some if we have some set goals that we want to get through right

[56:55] now, I would I would be okay with continuing that and then I think we should have fair compensation

[57:01] for that but I don't know that it's I don't know that that's permanent in my opinion you know

[57:13] I think part of it too was do we just get through to the end of the year under this kind of

[57:21] arrangement with kind of this laid out then be able to then start a search and do all that or

[57:30] or do you just say start to search down?

[57:33] So that was kind of seeing where people are at.

[57:39] It's something like this feasible,

[57:42] or do we say no, and then the direction is,

[57:45] no, do a full search, you know, do that.

[57:48] You can continue to inter-room because, you know,

[57:51] in the past, you'd bring in, you know,

[57:53] an inter-room administrator to kind of get you through

[57:55] that period and then you interview and do all that.

[57:58] So that's kind of a little bit of why this is at a work session, or does everyone feel?

[58:08] Well, Shane, I don't want you burning your candle at both ends for ten more years.

[58:17] I see this as kind of a, it's pretty hard to have two huge jobs and manage them both and give both everything they need.

[58:27] Obviously, I know you have a lot of support in the police department, but you still have

[58:32] a job there that you have to do and the city staff need someone there who's giving

[58:41] them they're all too, so I think that we should,

[58:49] like I said, make sure that you're being

[58:52] compensated for the time that you're doing two jobs and but but to have an

[58:58] ultimate goal of putting those back to one and one I think is a is a better idea

[59:07] and if if whatever you know line you decide to go down for yourself whatever

[59:14] choice you might make I would still like to see that be posted and you know we

[59:20] and we can look for candidates and angle that direction.

[59:27] That's...

[59:28] So you'd like to see that sooner rather than later?

[59:31] I mean, I think the process could potentially take a while,

[59:34] so if our goal would be to have somebody in place

[59:39] by the end of the year, I think that would be a process

[59:41] we could start,

[59:46] because doesn't this have to go through

[59:47] like LMC and...

[59:51] I mean, there's a lot of things to figure out.

[59:53] I think there's a lot of things to figure out just for the pulsing itself.

[59:56] There's a lot of steps that you could take, you could hire a recruiter, you could do all of that.

[1:00:00] to, you know, those are things we can discuss to later. But, you know, as far as the dual role

[1:00:06] as long as there were some things I sent out, and I obviously can't find it right now either,

[1:00:11] but it's there. There's support that I had built in if I'm going to do the dual roles that

[1:00:18] would make it work.

[1:00:22] I have a lieutenant in one area, so, and he's been doing really well. So,

[1:00:28] We're working together and figuring out our roles and just be on the city side

[1:00:33] This my comment

[1:00:35] and on on the city side then as well

[1:00:39] Some of that role would still need to be filled some of that extra support role there

[1:00:44] We would still be looking at another person possibly not another person, but reordination. Okay

[1:00:57] I

[1:00:59] Would like

[1:01:00] to see this interim be

[1:01:10] able to be with us till that last meeting in December if we're going

[1:01:16] to work with somebody through the budget process through the possible cannabis

[1:01:32] start-up.

[1:01:34] These are things that Shane brings to the table that are strong.

[1:01:45] And I would feel it would be really too

[1:01:54] much change to put somebody, but it doesn't mean that I'm opposed to start a process in looking.

[1:02:01] But I'd like to see Shane in this role through this budget cycle.

[1:02:09] I would hate to see somebody else come in mid-budget cycle.

[1:02:18] Starting the process, having an ever January 1 higher date, is that what you're saying?

[1:02:25] If that was agreeable to all parties and full council and I just think it's important

[1:02:35] It's important to have the continuity, especially for the budget, and staff

[1:02:48] at, I don't know how many more changes we want to make in this calendar year.

[1:02:54] We can start looking and whenever everybody is comfortable to set that date, I think is fine.

[1:03:03] but we're

[1:03:06] already at June just around the corner and that's not fair to have

[1:03:15] somebody start something that big and not

[1:03:23] see it through and

[1:03:27] Shane you've

[1:03:30] been an exceptional supportive piece in the cannabis steps that the committee has been

[1:03:44] trying to circle in and hone in on and that's

[1:03:55] a revenue stream that as we've thought and

[1:04:00] plan and voted to go ahead with, that's another piece that would be really hard to bring

[1:04:07] somebody else in at this point on that.

[1:04:20] These are very difficult subjects, especially when there's only three of us here.

[1:04:29] I don't like to be the windbag that I sometimes am up here, but I'm

[1:04:40] comfortable compensating

[1:04:42] with what I've seen and what risk management has worked through and I'm

[1:04:51] comfortable for this year if council wants to set a date to start

[1:04:59] advertising.

[1:05:05] That I also want to make sure that you're comfortable.

[1:05:12] You feel that a dual role would be okay through this year. I do.

[1:05:21] I don't want to make that decision for you.

[1:05:30] We change our tough spots. There's things to work through. There's things that, when change happens,

[1:05:43] happens, you can either try and stay where you are and avoid it, or you can adapt and

[1:05:53] do the best you can.

[1:05:56] And when there's too much change, it becomes unmanageable in my opinion.

[1:06:07] So let me ask you this, would it make sense then to come back to the council meeting with

[1:06:13] recommendation of these are or do to the end of the year you know whether it's

[1:06:20] third fourth quarter post it begin advertising it have that interview process

[1:06:25] kind of third fourth quarter for shooting for January 1st is that kind of

[1:06:30] what people would like to see I think that's a I think that's a good idea I think

[1:06:42] set up a meeting with the rescue and we'll hammer out these details and put

[1:06:46] something together to bring forward on council meeting and then also I mean

[1:06:53] we'll look at the stuff that groups we've used in the past and understand the cost of

[1:07:00] you know the recruiter to get somebody

[1:07:05] okay all right everybody go for that

[1:07:09] Yes, Mr. Mayor.

[1:07:11] Yep. Motion for adjournment.

[1:07:13] I'm going to motion my councilmember

[1:07:15] Hallstrom for adjournment is there a second?

[1:07:17] Second.

[1:07:18] Councilman Rickerman, non-dividable, all those in favor?

[1:07:21] Aye. Aye. All those opposed?

[1:07:23] Motion passes to 3-0 or adjournment 7-0-7.

[1:07:30] I'm excited to turn off my screen.

City Council Work Session

Transcript