[2:22] Good afternoon, everyone. I'm going to call the meeting to order of the Planning Commission of the City of Pelless Verities of the States for August 18, 2020. Before we begin, will you please join me in rise in saying the pledge of allegiance?

[2:38] Again, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. Thank you for

[2:55] that.

[2:59] Mrs. Brady May I have the roll call please.

[3:08] Commissioner Kashi, Commissioner Rossick, Commissioner Cozen,

[3:17] Vice Chairman Nendek, Chairman

[3:20] Campeasey, Chairman Campeasey, you have a forum.

[3:24] Thank you for that.

[3:25] Next we will move on to the approval of today's agenda.

[3:29] May I hear any comments on that or a motion to approve today's agenda?

[3:36] All right, we have a motion from Commissioner Rossick and a second from Vice Chair Nendick

[3:43] on favor.

[3:44] All right, motion carries and the approval of the agenda has been heard.

[3:51] So next we will open up communications from the public.

[3:54] This is the portion of the agenda where if you were here today to speak on an item that

[3:58] is not on today's agenda, this would be your time to come up to the podium.

[4:02] You'll have three minutes to speak on any topic that's not being heard today.

[4:06] I have a couple of cards here.

[4:07] I assume everyone's talking about the Lenovo Bluff top project.

[4:11] Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak on a topic that's not on today's

[4:16] agenda?

[4:19] Lenovo.

[4:20] Okay.

[4:21] All right.

[4:21] Last call.

[4:22] Hearing none, we will close the communications from the public and move the consent agenda.

[4:28] There's no items on the consent agenda today, so we will skip that and move on to the

[4:33] public hearing.

[4:34] Today's public hearing is a Coastal Development Permit application for La Nautabe Blufftop,

[4:40] number CDP-005-26 for some Blufftop improvements along Faceldo Mar near the intersection

[4:48] of Faceldo Mar and Avonita, Merola.

[4:52] May we have the staff report please, but before we do that, we would like to do an X-partake.

[5:00] Communications will start with Commissioner Kashi and disclose any ex-partei communications that are not part of the record.

[5:06] No ex-partei communication.

[5:09] I made site visits to 409-416-417-Evanita, Merilla, and 2406, and 2500-Baseo, Delmar.

[5:20] I visited the project area, did not speak to anyone there, but I had a separate conversation with a neighbor, Simon Schober, who also submitted a letter, and I believe is here tonight.

[5:31] This week, I drove by the site, but did not communicate with anybody.

[5:37] I walked with several times the room start

[5:48] test out your microphone.

[5:49] Did you hear that?

[5:50] There we go.

[5:51] All right, do you want to say it again for the microphone?

[5:53] Sure.

[5:55] I walked the cliff several times back and forth through the whole project.

[6:00] But didn't talk to anybody, thanks.

[6:02] Director Brady, may we have the staff report, please?

[6:07] The staff report will be given by the Public Works Director.

[6:14] Chair, commissioners, members of the public.

[6:17] So the staff report is going to be in this presentation as brief overview of basically

[6:21] how we got here.

[6:24] During the presentation, Kerry Brawley is going to jump into a lot of that because he's

[6:28] got a lot of more background than we do that he can fill in these spaces.

[6:32] It's a very broad overview of the project.

[6:39] Again, background history of the settlement, our obligations on that settlement and then the project scope.

[6:48] During basically our obligations or the timeline actually started in 2016 when this was file.

[6:55] And then the settlement agreement was reaching 24.

[6:58] And then in 2006, that's our deadline to comply with some of our obligations and I don't know if you want to go.

[7:05] Yeah, let me, yeah.

[7:07] Good evening.

[7:08] Planning for listeners and members and community members.

[7:11] I apologize.

[7:13] I just got back from vacation and I wasn't planning on attending today.

[7:16] But I wasn't in a tuck it's when we're going to tuck it type outfit,

[7:19] like the golf shirt with a coat.

[7:21] So I kind of, yeah, that's a fun place to visit.

[7:23] Never been there.

[7:25] Yeah, I thought it'd be important for the community and any planning commissions that aren't

[7:29] aware to kind of give a little bit of background.

[7:31] So as our public or director mentioned, the lawsuit was filed in 2016.

[7:36] The genesis of the lawsuit was that the city and I'm reading several individuals, collectively

[7:44] known as the Bay Boys, were preventing access to the Lunata Bay area.

[7:49] And the whole coastal commission their main goal is to protect access to coastal areas.

[7:59] The city was brought into this lawsuit and initially there's a couple important parts that I want everyone to understand.

[8:07] Initially our insurance authority, the California Joint Powers Insurance Authority, were covering the cost of the lawsuit for the city.

[8:14] It was initially fired and filed in federal court and I believe it was thrown out of federal court.

[8:21] It was refiled in state court and it was either thrown out or the city prevailed.

[8:28] And essentially what the city was trying to defend itself in was we don't have a obligation to curtail harassment.

[8:41] Now, of course, we want to curtail harassment, but there's a difference if it's an obligation and what was really important is that we were not impeding access to the coastline through this.

[8:53] We prevail, the plaintiffs appealed it and it went to the state of Pellac Court and

[9:03] a really, really, I'll say, bad decision by the Appellac Court said that cities can be

[9:10] held liable for impeding access to the coastline in the former harassment or bullying.

[9:16] That opened up a lot of eyes on all coastal cities throughout California, but more importantly,

[9:21] It was focused on us, so it went back to State Court at which point the JPA dropped coverage,

[9:30] not our coverage, but they were not no longer covering us in this case.

[9:34] So the city was paying its bill to defend itself on this.

[9:41] Our first attorney walked away from the case, about nine months in.

[9:46] Our Leo firm, BBK, monoconship representing them, stepped up and found a litigator and we went to court.

[9:56] Initially, the plaintiffs asked for upwards of-

[10:00] 15 to 20 million dollars to settle this case. The city council made an offer that was not near that to settle

[10:08] it and make it go away. And when I say make it go away, what I mean by is it's really the expense

[10:14] associated with defending the city. We were facing fines of tens to possibly $100 million. Should we have

[10:22] We found liable because the pellet courts said we could be a violating coastal access.

[10:29] The trial started and about the halfway point through the trial, the judge required us to

[10:38] go into settlement conferences.

[10:41] As part of that, settlement conference, the plaintiffs were asking for a whole host of

[10:46] things.

[10:46] Some of which we're going to talk about here in a million, you'll hear me jump in on what they

[10:50] for and what we settled on. They're also asking for money. Let me talk about the money for a second.

[10:56] They wanted the city to pay this legal fees. Most of this work is being done pro bono

[11:01] by two attorneys and Monica, maybe you can help me. There's something that attorneys can do

[11:06] and bring a lawsuit forward on behalf of the Coastal Commission. Are you familiar with that?

[11:18] Yeah, from what I understand, it wasn't a contracted. They're able to, there's almost like,

[11:23] I don't know, I'm one of these word angels, but they're able to bring forward what the

[11:29] co-commissive mission and bring the lawsuit forward.

[11:32] These returns were doing this pro bono, so we obviously weren't doing this pro bono defending

[11:40] ourselves.

[11:42] They initially asked for, again, I said 15, I think if I remember correctly, about $10 million

[11:49] in attorney's fees. We said we couldn't live with that. They came back and they said,

[11:54] all right, they wanted a ceiling of five and a floor of two. And I distinctly remember

[12:02] being in the meetings and saying, well, if you want your ceiling of five, then you're going

[12:08] to take a floor of zero and they wouldn't go for that. So we settled on a ceiling of four

[12:14] and a floor of one million dollars to be decided by the judge after the case. We'll come back

[12:19] to that in a minute. Then they wanted a series of actions by the city. Some of which were easy

[12:26] to implement. Every year the staff has to go through a training on the coastal commission and all

[12:33] the good that they do for the state of California. Anytime that there's any sort of incident

[12:41] that it would take some police report.

[12:43] I had to be given a copy of the police report in that area,

[12:46] and I had to forward it to the Coastal Commission to review.

[12:51] I'm trying to remember what are the other things to do.

[12:53] Some of you remember we did a helicopter operation.

[12:56] Some of the local surfers had taken a bamboo area.

[12:59] I think it's called a Rinda grass,

[13:00] and they kind of carved it out,

[13:02] and they built up with the rocks, and they backfilled it,

[13:04] and they made it a deck, and they hung out there.

[13:07] We had to take that out, and the only way we could take it out

[13:09] was via helicopter.

[13:10] So I had to do that. We have to go down there once or once every other month and walk the coastline and see if they are

[13:19] Storing kayaks or building an encampment. I've been down there myself twice. I've done it twice and

[13:27] The locals are not only the building encampments. They're building barbecues. They have coolers down there and the air is cool enough. They don't keep ice in it

[13:36] They have food that they go and they cooked down there.

[13:38] They had cemented in an umbrella and it's all in an area which can't see from the

[13:43] bluff top.

[13:44] But yet the city is required to go down there.

[13:46] Not only report on it, we also have to clean it up.

[13:50] So all of these are things that we required to do and this project.

[13:54] But one other piece on this, there is a stairway that's on private property in the

[14:00] Rocky Point neighborhood that goes down to the area and we have an agreement with the

[14:06] owner to the state was built in the 60s. We would agree with the home owner of our police

[14:10] and fire and city staff can use it if we have to have official business. So really the

[14:16] most time we use it we have to go down there for a rescue. We can get down there a little bit quicker

[14:20] and safer than going down the trail or by boat or by helicopter.

[14:27] We have to get the coastal

[14:28] commission to approve that or we have to take it out. So we are in a huge fight with them right

[14:33] as we speak on that. All of these had timelines on them and we've completed. We've

[14:38] hit every timeline but and I will share with the planning commission that the

[14:47] plaintiffs check in all the time. About once a month they check in and they

[14:51] asked for I think the last document I got had my favorite thing public

[14:56] regulatory quests, probably going to take an estimate.

[15:00] Under an hour is a staff time to produce this public records request.

[15:04] Last piece I want to share is that if you remember we said we would agree to a $1 million

[15:08] versus a $4 million settlement.

[15:11] So we went and they had another trial for the settlement, I attended that trial.

[15:17] And at the end the judge decided that we would pay $1.5 million in legal fees.

[15:24] This was agreed upon by the plaintiffs.

[15:27] about two weeks later, we get an email threatening to file another lawsuit to reopen this

[15:32] unless we give them $4 million. Meanwhile, every time these things come in, the City Council

[15:37] has to meet in close session, and we were, if you look back in the timeline, they were meeting

[15:42] weekly on all of these different parts. We just couldn't believe it. We were shocked. We had

[15:47] settled, we had all signed in good faith, and then they come back with this. We ended up saying,

[15:53] We'll give you another $250,000 and they took it.

[15:57] So we ended up settling for $1.75 million.

[16:00] All of this in this long history is that I found and talking with residents is a lot

[16:06] of this history.

[16:06] Some of it was behind closed doors or in closed session.

[16:10] Or hasn't really been relayed well.

[16:13] Or is known.

[16:14] I think it's really important that the community understands what we're dealing with this.

[16:18] This is not a project that the city just decided one day,

[16:21] Okay, let's go build stuff on the bluff top.

[16:24] We fought this every step of the way.

[16:26] It started in 2016, I was just out of the bluff top with some of the residents.

[16:31] I think some of them are here and a couple of council members out there and they said we've

[16:34] been dealing with this for eight years.

[16:35] I've had the pleasure of dealing it with it for two and a half years and this is the best

[16:41] that we had described.

[16:41] This is a big dark cloud over the city and took up a lot of staff and energy and public perception

[16:49] of the city.

[16:51] So, I wanted to give you all that context, I think it's really, really important to kind of understand everything that happened and got us to this point.

[17:00] So, first I look like you look at your government.

[17:02] Yeah, I would just be a good time to probe deeper on some of the aspects of the settlement, or will you be covering some of that.

[17:08] How we got to maybe the things that are required on the right side.

[17:11] Yeah, much more.

[17:11] Most of the shots I'm going to let Oscar go through it, and I promise to jump in to give clear.

[17:16] Okay.

[17:16] So this is a compared to what the initial ask was in the settlement or during the negotiations.

[17:23] This is very small, but then carry can jump in.

[17:30] So this is a very major component of this scope work.

[17:33] I mean, it looks like a lot, but really we're trying to keep minimum impact to the cliff, to the bluff.

[17:41] Again, it's the native vegetation, the signs, the seeding, and then of course the drinking

[17:49] fountain.

[17:52] Again, the native vegetation is two major areas that we're doing this and basically to establish

[18:00] those, the Caribbean irrigation system for the first year, possibly two years until we

[18:06] the vegetation that is kept. On the settlement agreement, we have to maintain these for 10 years.

[18:13] After 10 years, it's kind of silent. So we're... the signs. We already installed on the big sign on the

[18:23] beach because that one had a 90 days. 90 days timeline. So that one is already on the beach and it's been

[18:30] here since last year and the other ones are part of this project.

[18:40] The interpretive sign, again, this one is rather pretty close to the trail that is depicted

[18:48] on that interpretive sign and this is the kind of rendering of the size.

[19:00] the city in the trail markers.

[19:04] So whenever there is like a turn or a fork,

[19:08] we have trail markers, basically boulders,

[19:12] you know, that you see throughout the city

[19:14] and throughout just keeping in line with

[19:18] what the city looks like right now.

[19:20] And the benches are basically just a rock.

[19:24] Let's take a moment here,

[19:25] I think this would be good opportunity

[19:27] to kind of share sort of where we started

[19:29] than where we settled.

[19:31] Initially, if I'm sure everyone in this room

[19:35] has been on the Lunata Bay Bluff top,

[19:38] there are existing dirt trails on there.

[19:41] You can kind of see them a little bit in there.

[19:44] They're not going to be dark.

[19:46] They're just, they're just, they're to make it stand out.

[19:48] So it's what you see on the image.

[19:52] Initially, the plaintiffs wanted those to be cement.

[19:56] Then they came back with decomposed granite

[19:59] or D.J.

[20:00] You know, DG is a maintenance nightmare if anyone's ever worked in this field. It's a lot of work to maintain it and takes a lot of water. Then they want to crush these shells and we end up saying it's dirt and it's going to stay dirt and they accepted that.

[20:16] So the trail is not going to be improved. It's going to stay exactly as it is. One of the things that we got them to agree to leave it dirt is in the upper right hand corner. Those are the native rock show markers.

[20:28] And the way I've been describing it to everybody is, if you're hiker, you'll see often

[20:35] times out on a trail, what's called a duck, or a Karen, C-A-I-R-N, and they're just basically

[20:41] rocks at our trail points.

[20:43] Sometimes they're stacked up, and it's to let you know what the trail is going.

[20:48] So we agreed to put out, I counted it, I think it's 12 to 15 rocks, and we partially buried

[20:55] like that strategic location, so people know where the trail is.

[20:59] So that was in, we gave that in term,

[21:03] instead of, you know, cross seashells, trail.

[21:08] The rock sea bench has started as 12 traditional park benches

[21:11] with a back, throughout that entire thing.

[21:16] We settled on for what we have in lots of places in the city.

[21:22] And if you haven't been out there or you have,

[21:24] Recently, they're already out there.

[21:27] When I mean by out there, we've already found them and moved them to the location.

[21:32] Similar to what we see over a bluff cone and they overlooked there.

[21:35] They're just rocked, PV stone rocks.

[21:39] Went from 12 to four of those, as what they agreed to on that.

[21:48] And the trail markers, there's, I think, 32 or 34.

[21:52] I miss cattle.

[21:53] Yeah, but I mean, the locations are probably, you probably write the locations, but it's

[21:57] probably a set of three or four on each location, yeah, something like that.

[22:04] And then, did everybody find a different subject?

[22:08] This is a rendering of what the size of the Drinking fountain looks like with compared to

[22:14] the design that is out there already, and this is not the exact location, but the, you

[22:19] know, is on that intersection, basically.

[22:21] So, let's talk about the drinking fund.

[22:24] Why is there a drinking fund out there?

[22:25] Why is there a dog bowl drinking fund?

[22:29] The goal of the plaintiffs, in this case,

[22:32] was to make, not a big,

[22:34] left-up area more inviting and welcoming to visitors.

[22:39] So, that's where they started

[22:40] on every single thing they did.

[22:44] Initially, and this had been around for at least five years,

[22:50] And it was always a no, and they wanted to sort of, I don't know how to describe it, like a commercial telescope spy glass.

[23:00] I think they have them at the RPV Whale Interpretive Center.

[23:03] I like to say, though, the ones you see over in San Francisco on the Warf.

[23:07] They wanted two of those out on the edge of the Bluffs Tops, so people could look out.

[23:12] Council had said no to that for years and years and years.

[23:15] And in the negotiations, they were not moving off of that, both sites, the plaintiffs or the council were not moving off of that.

[23:24] So, we negotiated, and we came up with a water fountain and a dog bowl, and we came up to the interpretive sign that Oscar had shown earlier in the thing.

[23:34] So, I think that there need to be some context as to why isn't this going there.

[23:40] I'll top to it, during all of this, I spent a lot of time out there just trying to get

[23:45] a feel for the place and see what would work and what wouldn't work.

[23:49] And one of the thing they noticed, I saw a lot of residents walking their dogs all throughout

[23:52] the bluff top.

[23:53] I talked to a lot of residents, I asked them about it, and people liked the idea, I know not

[24:00] everyone loves the idea, but people did like the idea of being able to get some water on

[24:05] that.

[24:05] I will also say that I met with several residents today regarding the location.

[24:10] You know, if you look on this map here down in the lower right-hand corner under that square,

[24:18] that was really the focal point of what the plaintiff were focusing on.

[24:21] They wanted that to be the main area.

[24:26] And the consent to create a settlement specifically says that the drinking fountain needs to be near

[24:32] Marola and and Paseo Del Mar.

[24:38] Even though they are constantly inquiring with me and threatening to sue and take us back to court,

[24:45] I've committed to reopening this conversation about moving the dog watering the water bowl and the drinking fountain to a different location,

[24:57] to be named later because I don't want those neighbors to show up.

[25:01] But thanks, thanks for the courtesy.

[25:06] We'll look into it. But remember, we do have a timeline on this.

[25:10] And so it's to me it's very important to get this approved as is with the commitment that we will reopen.

[25:16] And hopefully they'll be open to it. The same is going to be said for the interpretive sign, the location, although that they insistent on everything sort of focusing on that lower right hand corner area.

[25:28] We think we've found a better location.

[25:29] The good news on that interpretive sign is our own staff

[25:32] is going to be installing that.

[25:34] So if we install it in one location and then the plane of sale,

[25:37] you can move it.

[25:40] We can do it ourselves.

[25:41] The drinking funds a little bit more complicated.

[25:43] So I can't make any commitments on that right now.

[25:45] But I commit to try.

[25:49] I think that they're looking for any reason to reopen this.

[25:52] So OK.

[25:56] This last slide is something that, of course,

[25:58] considering the views of this corridor was considered during the design process and kind

[26:04] of that shows the vegetation. That's why it's going to be all native kind of vegetation

[26:10] and you can see the minimum vegetation height. Right there compared to where the road is

[26:18] And, you know, the residencies.

[26:23] To that real quick, in the settlement, it says that the vegetation cannot block residents of use.

[26:31] We are required, as Oscar said, to maintain this for 10 years, that's going to be an add on to our landscape contract.

[26:39] But we can definitely, although what this, what do we call this cross section?

[26:45] shows, you know, we anticipate not letting it grow higher than four or five feet and

[26:50] maintaining it regularly.

[26:52] I will just add that it says the content to increase as President

[27:02] interviews shall not be permanently blocked. So temporary blockage is permitted.

[27:08] But just there's that.

[27:09] I will add that we're not going to do temporary.

[27:16] I think that's the end of this slide.

[27:19] Yes, that's the last slide.

[27:21] One thing I do want to, even even on maintenance

[27:25] Contractor landscape, he doesn't love the idea of adding more rocks over there,

[27:29] because it makes it really easy for us to maintain the plough

[27:33] with no obstructions when we go through there.

[27:36] So that's another thing, but it's something we agree to.

[27:41] I've been out for questions, one other thing, and I remember, oh, so Cheryl, maybe be ready

[27:49] to bail me out here.

[27:51] Tonight's item is a coastal development permit.

[27:54] We were operating that this project would be exempt from having to do this.

[28:00] We did have a conversation with the planners at the Coastal Commission, and I don't know.

[28:07] Maybe they are snowing me, but they seemed empathetic, but they said we have to go through this step.

[28:13] You know, this first came to council of the conceptual design in March 2025 and has been back to council three or four times.

[28:23] I did have a meeting with the Lunar Bay HOA, a public meeting out of that coffee place, and brought a board that I have that's a bigger version of the conceptual approval.

[28:32] I've met with lots of residents about this.

[28:36] There's no doubt that, you know, I'll admit to two things.

[28:41] I will say that we could have done a much better job

[28:42] communicating all the intricacies of this project.

[28:46] I think you understand how complicated this project is

[28:49] after sort of I jumped in.

[28:52] So I will equally admit that we could have always done a better job

[28:55] and I will also say in my 25 years,

[28:59] rarely has a community economy and said,

[29:01] Wow, what a great job communicating this project, you know.

[29:04] I tell this story, I always share it.

[29:06] I love my stories.

[29:08] Way back when I was in charge of communication

[29:10] for City of Wesley Fiddler.

[29:11] We were doing a major project.

[29:13] And I was in charge of any time

[29:15] they made road close down for this project.

[29:17] I had to get a notification out.

[29:18] This is pre-social media.

[29:20] We've sent out emails to residents.

[29:22] Just remember one time, the road was closing.

[29:25] I went, I sent out the message,

[29:28] and I got my card to go to lunch,

[29:29] and I immediately turned into the road closure,

[29:31] because I forgot in the five seconds

[29:33] from walking to my car.

[29:34] And it taught me something.

[29:35] It says, no matter how much you know,

[29:37] and I knew everything, you still cannot over-communicate.

[29:40] So we could have done better.

[29:42] I don't know if we could have done perfect,

[29:44] but we definitely could have done better on this.

[29:47] Tonight, is the last step we need in order to start the project.

[29:54] The Coastal Commission has indicated that the project,

[29:56] as it stands, they won't be appealing it.

[29:58] I'm going to accept it.

[30:01] You know, we can work on whatever changes I spoke to some of them, but we want the risk of we have a lot of different threats on both sides of this and we're essentially ready to go.

[30:16] That's all we got.

[30:18] Okay. Thank you for that, Mr. Antillian, you're done as well.

[30:22] Okay, is anyone have any questions or want to jump in questions for staff or Mr. Coleman?

[30:33] question on the maintenance of the vegetation that you're putting in. You said that the city

[30:41] has to maintain it for 10 years at a certain level and then after 10 years is up to the

[30:46] residents to do that and I asked that because there's one I think it's called the Lemonade

[30:54] Barry Rush, that when I was on Parklands, the residents wanted, they were responsible for

[31:02] trimming that, keeping it down.

[31:04] They had to pay for it.

[31:05] They had to come to Parklands and get permits and do the whole thing.

[31:08] Is that the case now, or is the city's going to maintain it for 10 years and then it's up

[31:12] to the residents?

[31:13] No, no, no.

[31:14] I think that.

[31:15] So a couple things there.

[31:17] I'll let Oscar talk if he wants about maintenance.

[31:21] The tenure maintenance on it, I think, was put in there by the plaintiffs, so we don't

[31:26] just build it and abandon it.

[31:27] To look, we satisfied the consent to create and we walked away.

[31:30] We need this, we have to keep this thing in good condition for 10 years.

[31:36] I don't see any reason why after investing in this 10 years or now, we would walk away from

[31:40] it.

[31:42] There's no residence to take over.

[31:43] This is city property.

[31:45] I understand, but it does, if it gets up to 10 feet, like it had in this part,

[31:49] I mean, the local military question year or so ago, it was up.

[31:52] It was impeding on their view.

[31:54] It was impeding.

[31:55] It was peding.

[31:55] The city doesn't have the money to go out and maintain that.

[31:58] We know that.

[31:59] So the resident had to do it.

[32:01] They had to submit the pirates and then hire a benet or whoever to go out and do it.

[32:05] Is that what's going to happen?

[32:06] No, 10 years.

[32:07] No.

[32:08] I look.

[32:09] No.

[32:11] We envision this as being a community of menatee and something that the city will

[32:16] maintain forever. I mean, I can't tell you what's going to happen in 10 years, but I can

[32:23] tell you that this will become part of our regular landscaping as long as we're able

[32:30] to pay our bills, we will maintain it. I don't think that anybody on staff or the city council

[32:40] ever wants to. We're trying to make this as little and less impactful as possible.

[32:51] So, like I said, I can't tell it's going to have in 10 years, but I don't see any reason why we had abandoned it and letting go.

[32:57] We fully intend. Now, if there's a plant type that has problems, we can talk about that.

[33:03] And I think those are things that can be moved around. I don't think plant types were necessarily part of it.

[33:08] The settlement agreement, but I'll let Oscar talk a little bit.

[33:12] I don't know if you were able to get up to speed on some of that stuff.

[33:15] Well, I mean, specifically to the lemonberry, that's a nety plan that is very good

[33:21] to hold up cleafs like this.

[33:24] It does well on the coastal environment.

[33:26] So that's why it was chosen.

[33:28] But if it does, like Kerry said, I think we will maintain it.

[33:32] We will maintain it to a certain height, whatever the height we decide to do.

[33:37] like we do in front of the of City Hall right here, okay?

[33:41] But I was getting to that is that after ten years,

[33:45] the plans died, you know,

[33:48] as you know, we're not going to invest more money into

[33:52] restublishing the irrigation system and all of that.

[33:55] That's what I was trying to get at.

[33:58] But maintaining it once is established,

[33:59] I think we will continue to until, you know.

[34:03] Okay.

[34:03] I'm just a couple more questions.

[34:07] This area is you're inviting people to come, to learn a band, see it, and this has already

[34:13] been noted.

[34:14] It's busy.

[34:15] I'm there all the time walking my dog.

[34:17] And there's people.

[34:18] I mean, I noticed you guys have those benches that you've moved there yesterday.

[34:21] There was nothing against them.

[34:23] There was like 16agers sitting on these benches already.

[34:26] They haven't even been placed smoking and putting out their butts and things.

[34:30] I was smoking, there's smoking is illegal in the city of

[34:34] Palters of the States.

[34:35] Well, at least call the police, they will come out and tick at them.

[34:38] I'm sure you've seen the butts in that.

[34:40] Yeah, but if you see it, anybody sees it, call us.

[34:43] I've been with our police department with a shock that they want to.

[34:46] Oh, I mean, you'd be shocked if you could take a seat out there.

[34:48] I saw a couple one day with a Habachi grilling full on lobster.

[34:53] I did.

[34:54] I'm that type of Karen, but I did do that, and they said they would come out.

[34:58] But I guess my question.

[35:00] And is a city going to provide more trash areas. This trash is always overflowing. Is there going to be more police patrols to come by and see?

[35:12] I mean, we've all seen the gender reveals there with the plastic that goes everywhere and we've seen the engagement things.

[35:18] You're inviting more people to come to these cliffs and I know you have to do that. I'm just asking the city is what kind of commitment to the residents are you making.

[35:26] And my recommendation initially is not to install more infrastructure that will make it more public.

[35:33] Like, putting out more trash cans out there, that makes it more like, you know, like a trip park.

[35:39] Right now is, if you're in by coming to this city, the expectations is that you leave the place as you find it, or better, right?

[35:47] And so that's, we start, I think, that way, because that's what you said, the expectations for the visitors, you know?

[35:54] There are some visitors that behave really well, and there's others that don't, but if we put a lot of infrastructure out there, not only we need to maintain it, but we invite people to actually utilize and that's the expectations that they will have.

[36:09] Let me address the gender reveals and the engagement engagements and whatnot, so we are completely aware of those and let me try to explain some of the challenges that we have with that.

[36:25] The first is this is public land, so somebody's out there and they are doing a gender reveal and they're not bringing in structures or hiring a third party to operate it.

[36:38] They have every right to be out there, and there are plenty of agencies and laws that won't allow us to tell people know they cannot be there.

[36:46] If they're putting structures down, that is a encroachment permit violation.

[36:52] So we have, and we can, but we don't often open up a code enforcement case on that and start chasing them down.

[37:02] They're usually one and done, they're usually operated by a third party company.

[37:09] When we go out and address these, we're said, oh, we're not a third party company, I'm

[37:14] there cousin.

[37:16] It happens all the time.

[37:20] One of the things that we have a very limited staff and we try really hard to take care of what

[37:25] we can't take care of but not create more problems for everybody.

[37:30] Where this really kind of reached a tipping point was the roster gazebo over by the beach

[37:37] club.

[37:38] So we started Cheryl and George and a bunch of people cash came up with a really great idea

[37:43] and we did a pilot program where we started permitting that initially we took a lot of heat

[37:49] from residents that didn't like the fact that we were permitting this and allowing people

[37:53] to be out there.

[37:55] But it's a public space.

[37:56] So, as part of that permit, we put restrictions on it, we put, you can't have, you can't have

[38:03] link candles.

[38:04] If you're going to put a structure down, you have to get a certain type of permit.

[38:07] If you're using a third party, you need to have a business license.

[38:11] That has been very successful.

[38:14] People said, well, it's a revenue opportunity.

[38:16] Sure it is.

[38:17] But to us, it's more about kind of the Oscars point.

[38:20] Leave this area how you found it and treat our public space with respect.

[38:25] And it's worked for the most part.

[38:28] We don't have code enforcement on the weekends,

[38:30] and all of these happen on the weekends.

[38:33] So our police department goes out.

[38:35] But they will say, and I was very frustrated

[38:36] when I got this answer from the police department,

[38:40] we're not going to go break up in engagement or a wedding.

[38:43] And if you wonder why, I can send you a video

[38:46] or just Google police department breaks up wedding,

[38:49] you can see what a terrible look that is for the community

[38:52] and that police department and sort of the violence that that could lead to.

[38:55] However, our police department will come out and they will inquire about a permit over the

[38:59] gazebo. If they'd have a permit, great. They don't ever permit. They'll just take down some

[39:03] information and we do follow up and it's worked out really well. I'm reluctant to open this

[39:09] up on the bluff tops, not just Lunar Bay, all the bluff top areas because I just think that

[39:16] now by permitting it, kind of to Oscar's point, we're encouraging more of it.

[39:21] So it was a fine line that we're walking on this.

[39:24] I understand, and I think we understand that, but I don't live too far from the

[39:29] bluffs.

[39:29] And so when you're down there all the time, it's just you can imagine more people

[39:33] coming, more cars coming, or parking, there are already going really fast around that

[39:38] turn.

[39:38] It just makes us nervous, and is there a plan for the police to patrol more and to be more

[39:44] on top of it?

[39:45] Well, I think the Lunar Bay Bluffs top is a huge area that the police are already aware of.

[39:51] Um, you know, we were out there doing one of our sweeps when time and, um, one of the

[39:58] babes showed up and started, they didn't know.

[40:00] We know that we were with the city. They didn't know that Luke was the chief because he was in plainclothes on purpose.

[40:05] And they started chirping at us and asking us to come talk to them and all this stuff.

[40:10] And the police came and talked to them. So the series very well known.

[40:13] But your point is, well, taken in that, you know, if things start to ramp up, that's how that's the beauty of having our own police department.

[40:21] So we can direct them where we want them to go. I know there's been talked that during COVID this week came a big area for people to come, especially with RVs.

[40:28] City Council took action and you can't park RVs out there and I know it's enforced.

[40:34] I was asked today if with those four stone rock benches can people sleep on them.

[40:42] And, you know, just for everyone to know, up until very recently,

[40:46] the city could not enforce camping ordinances.

[40:49] I was either the state or the federal level where you couldn't,

[40:52] you couldn't ban camping in open space areas.

[40:56] There was that was over rule by the Supreme Court and since that time, we've passed an ordinance that bands camping in the city.

[41:03] So if people are spending the night out there, our police department will, they have now the right and the ability to move them along and or you know violate them.

[41:14] But so yes, the answer is yes, they're fully aware of this and it's definitely an area of patrol.

[41:21] I know we have other questions.

[41:22] I do want to pause real quick and ask city staff in the city attorney about the point of order

[41:26] here because I know typically when we have an applicant they get five minutes before and

[41:30] after and then we do public comment in between so I didn't know we're deviating from that.

[41:34] Three minutes.

[41:36] All the people that's smithed cards, it would be three minutes.

[41:40] Oscar, do you have anything further to say?

[41:43] At this point, Kerry.

[41:46] So I think we have more questions up here.

[41:48] I'm not going to I don't want to rush that part of it.

[41:50] And then we'll open up the public comment period and then we'll be able to, the city will be able to address any comments that are brought up by the public before we closed the public hearing is that agreeable by the city attorney as well.

[42:01] Okay, we want to make sure everyone gets heard and all the questions get answered and we leave with with everyone mostly unhappy but happy.

[42:09] So, vice chair Nendick, did you want to go next?

[42:12] or Commissioner Kashi, do you have any questions?

[42:21] So,

[42:23] the report recommends a temporary irrigation system for six months, and the geotec report,

[42:35] the better,

[42:38] and the geotec report recommends not letting the surface water of the

[42:47] the cliff. What are we doing about it? During that six months. It's going to be manually

[42:57] operated, so somebody's going to be actually when we turn the water on, somebody's going

[43:01] to be there. And then there's another recommendation that there shouldn't be any of these

[43:09] improvements within the first 25 feet from the Bluff top line, did the engineer confirm this in the plans?

[43:20] Yes, we'll confirm that as well.

[43:25] Thank you.

[43:26] All right, Vice Chair Nendick.

[43:28] I have a few questions, sorry.

[43:32] First of all, you know, our data was kind of sparse.

[43:36] So when you read these things, you hear about the trail, the buff trail, the middle trail, the North Trail, the Goat Trail.

[43:44] Can you show us where these trails are? So we know what we're talking about.

[43:48] Because our plans don't really call out these things out.

[43:52] So in the beginning, I was thinking, the South Trail must be the end of it.

[43:55] And this agreement says that the left-top trail ends at via Anacapa and Paseo Lannada.

[44:03] So is the south end down there? Where are these trails so that everyone knows what we're talking about?

[44:10] So the trails are what is established actually right now and then that photo right there?

[44:15] That's probably the best depiction.

[44:18] The trails here basically that is on top of the established trails.

[44:25] We're not changing where the trails are right now.

[44:28] Were you all currently? That's all we're doing.

[44:30] We're saying these are the established trails. This is it.

[44:34] Yes, but what is the South Trail? What is the Goat Trail? What is the North Trail? What I mean?

[44:42] I can't create a map with specifics. I don't have it on this presentation. It's probably

[44:50] on the, I don't remember if we called in names on the design.

[44:55] Well, it's in the agreement that's correct.

[44:56] And you just show the approximate locations on I know this.

[45:02] So the south trail goes away from the bluff top. This is what it's hard to understand.

[45:08] Well, okay, when you say south trail, I think you're I didn't, I'm thinking about the trail down to the beach.

[45:15] Well, that's what I'm wondering, is that what they are?

[45:17] Yeah, the south trail is the trail down to the beach that's down in the square area.

[45:25] That's the area that is the main, well, the only sort of, I guess suggested access down to the beach.

[45:39] That's the box that we see on this picture up here.

[45:42] Yeah, down at the bottom.

[45:44] The goat trail, I don't know if it shows on here, but I know the approximate location.

[45:50] And I'll just probably been down and he's kind of a goat.

[45:55] It's where that safety sign is, that's the goat trail.

[45:58] That is of the two options to get down to the bottom.

[46:01] That is the least desirable way to get down.

[46:05] So that's where it says, on the agreement, in addition, landscaping is reference of

[46:12] I've shall be maintained to direct users away from the middle trail, the goat trail.

[46:17] it's it's the landscaping is to direct them down to where the square is down at the bottom

[46:22] showing that as a as an area okay that was the intent okay um I

[46:39] guess because when I read

[46:40] what the whole trail was all the way to uh for sale and not I was wondering where the benches were all

[46:48] right there on for sale down there rather than spreading them a little bit further

[46:55] is there a reason how you chose the locations of the rock benches?

[47:02] Did the same team did all of the placement we reviewed that and we agreed it was kind of similar to what we have in other locations.

[47:13] The way I get confused, it's per the conditions landscaping is to be planted to direct visitors away from the cliffs.

[47:19] So I'm wondering why we're putting the seat benches on the cliffs.

[47:22] A lot of places where you go typically seat benches around the east side of the path,

[47:28] because if the kids run into the bench to go sit, and it's right at the cliff, it's pretty scary.

[47:35] I mean, I know I'm older, but when you walk to the edge there, it's pretty tight.

[47:40] So that's kind of what I'm wondering is that, because when I see the picture from the agreement,

[47:45] And they have a lot of the benches on the north side of the path as well.

[47:52] Not, not that I know, we know it was just the same as completed in March, just before I

[47:59] got here.

[48:00] Well, I'm just looking at, in the agreement, I just printed out this picture, so that's

[48:06] what I was kind of looking at trying to understand.

[48:11] I, what I can tell you is, we're going to be in an effort to save money on the cost.

[48:17] We're going to be placing the benches.

[48:19] There's four of them out there right now.

[48:21] That's a temporary location.

[48:23] We'll be placing them.

[48:24] Obviously, we're not going to put them up against the cliff.

[48:29] So if it makes sense to move them back,

[48:31] we will, in fact, out there today,

[48:33] we already found a location that we liked better.

[48:36] Okay, just because when I read how they're mounting,

[48:40] then they have to dig holes.

[48:42] And so there's a base for it, which makes sense,

[48:44] so they don't move.

[48:45] but you don't want to do that near the cliff, but everything is right at cliff, everything

[48:49] I read in this agreement, say, you're trying to draw people away from the cliff edge

[48:52] to the path.

[48:54] So that's.

[48:54] Right.

[48:55] When we place the benches, if it doesn't make sense, we're not married to these locations.

[48:59] This is general ideas of where they'll go.

[49:02] There will be, there will be set back from the cliff at a good distance.

[49:06] Okay.

[49:07] The next question is about the water fountain.

[49:11] I understand we have to have a water fountain and a dog ball.

[49:16] I don't understand why we're doing a bottle filler because the bottle filler makes this

[49:22] thing much bigger and in the picture from the agreement it shows it's just a fountain and

[49:31] a dog filler but then it didn't say what kind of what brand this is but I found the same

[49:40] specs and the bottle filler makes it much taller. So I'm just wondering why we went to put

[49:46] a bottle filler in as well when the agreement doesn't require that.

[49:54] I don't have any answer that question.

[49:56] Okay, well I'm just saying, these are people who are worried about the visual impact.

[50:00] And when you get up to 55 inches, I think it's a fair question that I was trying to understand.

[50:06] Sure. The plans reference that there's a bluff edge setback. Do we know what the required setback is on the bluff edge?

[50:18] The plans? There's a bluff. No, I don't.

[50:21] And what about they also say there's a minimum distance from the cliff that any work can be done? Do we know that dimension?

[50:27] I'm just taking this off the plants.

[50:29] The recommendation on the geotech report is 25 feet.

[50:33] So is that saying that none of this will be within done within 25 feet of the cliff?

[50:39] Yes.

[50:49] Just to clarify, are you looking at this document right here?

[50:53] This was the sketch by the plaintiff's.

[50:55] And looking at that, it looks like there's two benches on the street side of the trail.

[50:59] And there's two benches on the shoreline side of the trail.

[51:04] Well, I see three and two, so I'm not just, I'm just trying to understand when everything

[51:09] I'm reading in this is we want to preserve the cliffs and the goal is, pull people away

[51:13] from the cliffs, why we're then putting the benches right next to the cliff, everything

[51:17] right next to the cliff.

[51:18] It's a great point and it's something that when we're out there placing them, we'll be able

[51:22] to place them in what makes them most sense.

[51:25] Okay.

[51:27] I guess I should ask the city of attorney, what's our role here in this?

[51:30] What is the purpose of the planning commission in this?

[51:37] So the settlement agreement states that the planning

[51:42] commission and the city council should be able to review

[51:47] this coastal development permit for the projects on its own

[51:50] merits and independently.

[51:52] However, there are many layers involved in this.

[51:56] And so that's something that one, the coastal commission,

[52:00] has requested and to that it's expected in the settlement agreement.

[52:06] So the commission here can, if necessary, and I think, you know, you're also considering

[52:14] the reopening of litigation, which is also reserved in the settlement agreement if the

[52:20] city with hold a approval of this project.

[52:28] Right.

[52:29] conditions correct. So that's so the way to make conditions and you know we strongly recommend

[52:36] to accept the project as is. However, keeping in mind the commission does maintain its independent

[52:44] authority.

[52:47] The conditions can be imposed only if necessary to meet one of the mandatory findings.

[52:52] The findings, and the calls that are listed for the Coastal Commission.

[52:56] Great.

[52:57] Thanks.

[52:59] Then once again, let's talk about the irrigation later.

[53:06] Vice-chardonnay, Nick.

[53:07] May I just ask one follow-up question on that since we're on the topic of what's it stake here?

[53:11] So what happens after this?

[53:13] Let's say it's approved today with conditions or not?

[53:16] Does it go to City Council then next at the next meeting?

[53:19] or is this the final reform before you resummit to the plaintiffs and the Coastal Commission?

[53:24] What happens at this point, once the appeal period's over, then it's forwarded to the Coastal

[53:31] Commission, then the Coastal Commission has to write to appeal to the project. But our understanding

[53:36] with there's been many discussions regarding the current project that they're very happy with

[53:45] project as long as no changes are made to the project.

[53:51] So, how do we deal with the fact that we're being told by Oscar that any improvements

[53:57] all this has to be 25 feet away from the cliff edge, but the plans don't show that

[54:04] that distance.

[54:07] We can confirm that when we're starting the construction.

[54:17] That's all my questions for staff.

[54:19] Thank you.

[54:22] No questions at this time.

[54:24] All right.

[54:24] I think we'll get to opening up the public hearing here.

[54:28] I just wanted to ask one follow-up question to the city attorney about.

[54:32] There is a hard deadline.

[54:34] I believe the work to be completed.

[54:35] Can you state what that is?

[54:37] That is September 16th.

[54:39] September 16th, 2026.

[54:43] And that is to install the signs, to install the landscaping,

[54:46] situate the benches and install the water station.

[54:49] Correct.

[54:49] Okay, and then what what is back to my other question about what what is at stake if if we missed that deadline you you mentioned possibly

[55:00] We'll re-lidigation a re-opening of litigation, which could potentially open up different

[55:06] settlement amount, right?

[55:09] Not a different settlement, settlement amount, it'll be its own separate action for a breach

[55:17] of a settlement agreement, and then on top of that, the Coastal Commission could also impose

[55:22] penalties, and on top of that, the plaintiff's attorneys could request recovery of their

[55:30] Thank you.

[55:31] All right.

[55:32] Any other questions before we open up the public hearing?

[55:35] All right.

[55:35] Hearing none.

[55:36] We have a number of cards.

[55:37] And when I call your name, please step up to the podium on your left there.

[55:40] And make sure you speak directly into the microphone and state your name.

[55:43] And then you will have three minutes.

[55:45] There's a clock up here.

[55:46] And a clock over our shoulder over here.

[55:49] We will start with Gary Houston.

[55:51] Followed by Lori Carlson.

[56:08] Thank you.

[56:08] My name is Gary Houston.

[56:09] I live at 409 Avenue, Amirola, two houses, back from the cliffs.

[56:14] I had the opportunity to meet with City Manager and staff today at 230.

[56:21] We discussed some issues we understood how you got here.

[56:25] I think listening to the discussion specifically by Ms Nendick, I think that the plans

[56:30] that have been studied and presented to us do not represent what is required relative

[56:38] to the setbacks.

[56:39] I'm very concerned that the attitude is going to be will-build it and come see what we've built.

[56:46] That does not sound like an action that you should take.

[56:50] Separately, changing gears, the area that they're trying to energize, if you will, it becomes almost like an attractive nuisance, it becomes a park.

[57:02] It becomes an area where by nature of the design, bringing people towards that one corner,

[57:10] the South Trail, if you will.

[57:13] The South Trail is directly adjacent a very fast moving car curve on the street.

[57:22] Miss Rossnick identified that.

[57:24] This is a dangerous area.

[57:25] Why are we bringing the attractive nuisance, the area that we're trying to attract people

[57:30] to write at the most dangerous area where there is only parking on one side of the street and

[57:36] not both. If we live to the letter of the intent of the decree, you're trying to energize

[57:47] the bluff code, the bluff. Doesn't necessarily need to be at that one corner. That one corner

[57:54] But is the area that is the south, which has the south trail, I think, Ms. Nendake was trying

[58:00] to identify the south trail. That south trail is the access down to the cliffs below the

[58:07] beach below. That south trail is used very heavily by fishermen. There were six cars, as I

[58:14] mentioned today, six cars yesterday, parked right at the end of Avenue in the Role, Marola

[58:19] and Peseldomar. Those six cars had one, two or three fishermen and they packed up their poles and they walked the cliff.

[58:29] Why is that important? Basically a park is an area where you should come, take pictures and leaflets.

[58:37] But, these fishermen, if there is a drinking fountain with a bowl, are going to use that drinking fountain to clean their fish, it's just nature.

[58:48] Take a look at what happens in Manhattan, Manhattan, here.

[58:52] You have all the fishermen, and you have an area where there's a drinking fountain, and

[58:56] that drinking fountain is water source, that drinking fountain is a mess.

[59:02] It is going to attract trash, is going to attract vermin coyotes, I'm all for the drinking

[59:12] fountain, but the drinking fountain should not be placed adjacent to where the fishermen and

[59:17] rest of us walked down to the cliffs. Let's move it north. Let's move it. Let's move. If you have

[59:24] to have a doing in found, let's place it in a position where it's not going to be used in a negative

[59:28] way. Let's put it in a position where you're going to actually have got, or at a time. Let's put it in a position

[59:35] where the residents will use it to, as they're walking their dogs, or on a trail, but not adjacent to

[59:43] area, which is going to become the trash dumping zone, or Mr. Houston, I appreciate your

[59:49] time.

[59:49] That's it.

[59:52] Lori Carlson followed by Simon Schober.

[1:00:04] Thank you very much for all your hard work and litigating this and getting us to a manageable

[1:00:11] something, and really appreciate Janine's comments, Susie's. You had a lot of the things I was going to talk about.

[1:00:21] My, and I loved what Gary just said. I think those are all really spot on points.

[1:00:28] I'm looking a little bit more towards the future.

[1:00:31] We already have our designated as a destination, and as we get signs up, and we make this

[1:00:40] more advertising when we have you, we are going to get quite a few more people, and we do

[1:00:44] have quite a few more people here now, and as a resident of Avenue, Marola, we're seeing

[1:00:51] car stop and check out our houses, and we've had a few break-ins, and

[1:00:57] and we're already starting to impact since COVID people

[1:01:01] knowing about us.

[1:01:02] They also haul down our street.

[1:01:05] And we have a lot of kids on our street.

[1:01:07] So I would be, hopefully this can be talked

[1:01:12] with the City Council.

[1:01:13] I'd be glad to head up, getting some stop signs

[1:01:17] on Avenue and Merrill because we do anticipate more traffic.

[1:01:21] And some way to slow down the traffic,

[1:01:24] maybe the curve that we're talking about,

[1:01:26] that's so busy, they're signs.

[1:01:30] I know we can't do speed bumps because litigation

[1:01:34] we've been there and that hasn't worked.

[1:01:39] Let me just double check here.

[1:01:42] So it's that the fast cars, kids getting hit,

[1:01:47] had us slow down that traffic, also parking.

[1:01:50] I think why should our streets become parking lots, maybe we restrict non-resident parking

[1:02:00] or people who are using that to the one side of Paseo.org and maybe we have residents

[1:02:08] parking and we have, there should be some kind of control on that and I think I heard

[1:02:17] What you guys said about the business license is they do do that a lot and I loved to find a way to maybe get some of our money back from this location.

[1:02:31] But I think safety is paramount at this point and to make some decisions on that and have city council really look at what we need.

[1:02:42] And, you know, as I said, I'll, I'll had a stop sign up, I'll put the work in, if someone just tells me how to start getting stop signs, as opposed to just a complete straight, you know, run way, down from PV, drive west to Paso, Delmar, because that's, but we're all AIs going to send everybody right.

[1:03:07] So anyway, thank you very much for your time and your effort.

[1:03:09] Thank you.

[1:03:12] Simon Schober, followed by Anne Barclay.

[1:03:19] Good afternoon, commissioners.

[1:03:21] My name is Simon Schober.

[1:03:23] My wife and I live in at 416 Avenue, Marola, with our two children.

[1:03:28] We have lived there for 14 years, and we've seen quite significant changes to the blasts over the years.

[1:03:34] Lindsay is also lived in another bay essentially her entire life.

[1:03:38] We've submitted our formal written objection, and it's already in the record.

[1:03:45] We support the public access requirements of the settlement, but we do not support the current

[1:03:49] designs in three critical respects.

[1:03:52] First, the drinking fountain, the plans placed at the intersection at Avonita, Marola,

[1:03:57] right near our home.

[1:03:59] This will create a natural meeting spot, increase parking pressure, trash, and noise.

[1:04:04] The settlement only requires the fountain near that intersection.

[1:04:08] It does not lock in that exact location.

[1:04:12] In our letter, we actually propose moving it to the natural

[1:04:17] Trailhead Bluff near rocky point.

[1:04:20] And that's located in the Google Maps

[1:04:24] In our attachments to the letter.

[1:04:28] If we were actually going to put a fountain there, that's where

[1:04:31] I think logically it should be put, and that's without the settlement agreement.

[1:04:36] I understand that the city has had difficult negotiations,

[1:04:41] so as an alternative, I would

[1:04:43] ask that we at least move it further around south, closer to where the path splits.

[1:04:51] And yeah.

[1:04:52] My second point about irrigation, there should be no temporary irrigation across the

[1:04:58] of the black tops.

[1:05:00] The peninsula has a long history of water driven landslides and seepages. Portuguese banned a

[1:05:06] ballooning curve and other ongoing problems at Malagukov. The coastal commission has repeatedly

[1:05:11] found that irrigation contributes to bluff erosion under coastal act section 30253. We ask that the

[1:05:20] entire fixed irrigation system be deleted from the plans. If plants need to be watered during

[1:05:26] establishment. It should only be done by water truck with personal present. Plants that

[1:05:31] cannot survive here without irrigation should not be long on the bluff. Thirdly, the

[1:05:37] sediment requires that landscaping not permanently block existing residential views. The

[1:05:42] plans allow for plants to be four to ten feet tall. In my opinion, that should be have a hard

[1:05:50] maximum mature hard of less than 4 feet.

[1:05:58] And I know that in the last few years, the city's head

[1:06:02] budget constraints, and we're seeing the musted grow up to 8

[1:06:05] and 10 feet out on those blocks.

[1:06:08] Knowing this, I don't understand why we'd want to plant anything

[1:06:11] that could grow up to 10 feet.

[1:06:12] That doesn't make sense.

[1:06:15] So I would support just low profile natural vegetation.

[1:06:20] I'm not against the stone seeding, but I agree with the commissioner, Keshe, that the bench

[1:06:28] should be on the east side, not near the actual cliff edges.

[1:06:33] Mr. Shilver, unfortunately your time is up.

[1:06:34] Thank you.

[1:06:35] Thank you.

[1:06:38] Thank you.

[1:06:39] Thank you.

[1:06:52] Thank you.

[1:06:53] years. And again, appreciate the recitation and the comments from the commissioners have

[1:07:02] been very well taken, as you can tell by the applause from some of the folks in the

[1:07:08] audience here today. My primary concern is that so much is being impacted on the south side.

[1:07:17] And when I first saw that there was a settlement, it sounded as if there was going to be

[1:07:23] You know, these amenities, so to speak, spread out through the entire bluff top area from the north end, closer to rocky point.

[1:07:33] But now we see this plan and it really does seem as if everything's being impacted on the south side, particularly at Avanita, Marola.

[1:07:42] I'm very much concerned about the impact on the views of my neighbors.

[1:07:48] You know, we, my husband and I have lived on the Apatecho for 40 years, and we take walks almost every single day on the left tops, and to impact one street, particularly Abanita, Marola, to the extent that it is simply unfair.

[1:08:06] I think the suggestion about a water fountain for the settlement is a great one.

[1:08:14] Why go ahead and do a bottle filler that's going to be five feet tall?

[1:08:19] The other concern I have is that the plants that are being considered here seem to be very

[1:08:25] much like the ones that are up by Paseo Lannada and the Anacapa.

[1:08:30] And right now, that place looks like a very hazardous condition for fires, you know, the plants have grown at least about five to six feet tall, it appears, and it does look like a very hazardous condition.

[1:08:45] So I would really appeal to you to be able to have a vegetation that really is not to exceed even three feet would be, I think, manageable and very accepting.

[1:08:59] accepting to the neighbors, it wouldn't impact their views, and it would be much better safe to concern.

[1:09:07] The last thing I wanted to bring up is we can't see on any of these slides what the rules will be.

[1:09:14] I guess there's, it sounds like there's already a great deal that's in production since we have to get this completed by the middle of next month.

[1:09:24] I hope that on these rules that are going to be posted that it does state no smoking of any kind and we know there's a lot of different kinds of smoking going on there, including vaping.

[1:09:38] I came upon a cartridge just a couple of days ago that had been tossed to.

[1:09:47] So no smoking, no vaping, no alcohol.

[1:09:51] And those are my concerns.

[1:09:52] Thank you again.

[1:09:54] Great.

[1:09:54] Thank you so much.

[1:09:57] Jose Calazo.

[1:09:59] Follow.

[1:10:00] By Marlene Breene.

[1:10:03] I have moved there a lot, so I've lived in cross versus states for the last 40 years, and I reside

[1:10:10] at Barcelona, the property that abuts Barola.

[1:10:16] My concern really is that when you look at

[1:10:20] the situation that we're facing, the city is comprised of its employees and other officials.

[1:10:25] The settlement was because city employees did not behave properly, but it's just put as simple as that.

[1:10:35] I am concerned now because we may be entering a situation where the city will now be incurring liability,

[1:10:42] which will ultimately be paid by the citizens.

[1:10:45] Encouraging beach access routes, there are no beach access routes.

[1:10:49] There are dirt trails passed created by erosion and in traffic people who use them.

[1:10:54] I'm amazed it can make it down those paths carrying surfboards and

[1:10:59] scuba equipment and fishing gear.

[1:11:01] I can't make it down there.

[1:11:03] What's a liability if someone falls in dice or gets hurt?

[1:11:07] There should be no signs saying that there should be signs saying danger, unsafe trail use

[1:11:12] at your own risk.

[1:11:14] The same risk applies to encouraging people to come to the bluff.

[1:11:17] Signs pointing out that coming too close to the edge of the bluff is a risk and

[1:11:22] The ventures should be as far away from that bluff as possible, because we don't want to incur

[1:11:27] the liability of somebody following, because they've been encouraged to get closer to the

[1:11:33] bluff.

[1:11:34] And lawyers are very creative.

[1:11:35] So anything that we do to encourage someone to get hurt is something that a lawyer can use

[1:11:42] to say, hey, we're fault.

[1:11:45] The drinking fountain, Marola, is a very simple problem that we've created.

[1:11:51] The street between Merola and Chelsea Road is very strong, it's one block, and usually

[1:11:56] it has a lot of cars on the weekends.

[1:11:59] Same thing applies to every street that ends at a certain mark.

[1:12:03] So the drinking fund should be someplace that does not end facing a street that faces a

[1:12:08] certain mark.

[1:12:09] A lot of places along that bluff you can put it, because if you put it where there's

[1:12:14] a street ending at a certain mark, you're going to create traffic down those roads and those

[1:12:19] weekends packed with parked cars.

[1:12:24] Finally, this would be a good time to place bigger boulders,

[1:12:29] so the cars could not drive off with a bluff like what happened recently, you know,

[1:12:33] further south on the middle of the market. So if we have boulders who just spread the alarm

[1:12:38] on the bluff, so that no car could actually come on that road, either by accident or by people

[1:12:44] willing to commit suicide. And I've seen cars go on to the road, on to the road there,

[1:12:49] not realizing that it's illegal that I've seen the police come and get them off the block.

[1:12:54] So we should put boulders that will not allow a normal deal to get over the boulder or

[1:13:00] in between the boulders.

[1:13:02] Other than that, I think we should be careful to not beautify something that doesn't be beautifying.

[1:13:10] We should do the minimum required illegal agreement to do that.

[1:13:13] I don't think we're doing that.

[1:13:14] I think we're getting carried away by doing things more than we need to.

[1:13:18] Thank you, Mr. Closa, your time is up.

[1:13:24] Marlene Brain followed by Robert Barclay.

[1:13:29] Hello, Marlene Brain, 2013 Chelsea.

[1:13:31] I'm just one block in from the Bluffs.

[1:13:33] I wouldn't have a full set made, full size.

[1:13:37] I don't know if anybody on the planning commission

[1:13:39] has actually looked at a full size set of plans.

[1:13:43] But I did go through, I read lined a whole bunch of stuff

[1:13:46] on different topics.

[1:13:49] Basically what I'm hearing today is that

[1:13:51] This is what we've done, and you guys have to approve it because we have a deadline.

[1:13:56] And if that's the case, this is like a really poor way to proceed.

[1:14:00] I think every single category has something that needs to have an adjustment.

[1:14:06] Now, where those adjustments happen, you know, the experience has been, if it's on the paper, that's how it gets built, no matter what people say.

[1:14:15] So, I don't know if it's possible for you to create a set of plans that reflects what the people today are talking about, or if this is just fluff.

[1:14:29] I can talk to you about the varieties of plants that substitutions are possible.

[1:14:34] There are things that will work and are low and you won't have to maintain.

[1:14:39] I think irrigation is out.

[1:14:43] We have a lot of experience with beautiful, not a bay, and the first time around on the first

[1:14:50] session, we went with a professional who designed the irrigation system, we had it professionally

[1:14:55] installed and that irrigation system failed.

[1:14:58] On the second time.

[1:15:00] Around, we did a half-half, where the resident volunteers did a part of the installation and it was partially installed, professionally and it failed.

[1:15:11] And third time we installed quick couplers and volunteers come and water off of quick couplers.

[1:15:19] That system seemed to work pretty well.

[1:15:21] We ended up only irrigating twice over the summer, the rest of the year, no water.

[1:15:29] And currently, and currently, now that whole system is shut off.

[1:15:34] So, I would recommend no irrigation at all, hand watering, using quick couplers is completely

[1:15:41] effective for something of this scale. Changing out your plant material to something that's

[1:15:46] more appropriate needs to be done. I also question some of the slope mitigation that they're

[1:15:53] proposing. I think it's going to disturb the slope more than what's there. There are ways to plant

[1:15:59] the plants. In fact, I have an alternate detail that actually captures rainwater and doesn't

[1:16:05] depend on irrigation drips. And that's been proven to be very effective. I do a lot of

[1:16:12] slope installations in this area. And you know, the projects look great. So I'm a resource for you

[1:16:20] if you have questions or want to talk about how to do native plant installations. There's also

[1:16:27] PV land, conservancy, and essentially, none of us who are asked anything up front.

[1:16:33] In fact, I consistently, you know, check the website, I ask people where we are, what's

[1:16:40] happening.

[1:16:40] And all I get is this very vague conceptual plan.

[1:16:44] Now here you have a complete plan that's put a lot of effort and a lot of money into and

[1:16:49] it's not appropriate for the project.

[1:16:51] The project has exceeded the scope of work that is required by the lawsuit.

[1:16:58] It's creating a hazard.

[1:17:00] Please conclude your time is up.

[1:17:02] Okay.

[1:17:03] It's a hazard.

[1:17:04] And I think you need to think about what happens next.

[1:17:08] Thank you.

[1:17:08] Thank you so much.

[1:17:14] Robert Barclay followed by Kristina Hargate.

[1:17:17] My name is Robert Barclay.

[1:17:18] I live at 2409.

[1:17:20] of the Chaco.

[1:17:23] I really appreciate the comments by Commissioner Rossick and Commissioner

[1:17:28] Cassie. The point I was going to make is to the landscaping. I wanted to ask the public

[1:17:36] worst director. Did you say that the watering would be done by an employee of the city?

[1:17:42] I'm sorry. All questions would be directed to the commission.

[1:17:46] Okay, so what I heard, well, a couple of things I've heard, number one is the plan, which

[1:17:52] is approved, which you have to go by, or else we get into liability, the lawsuit.

[1:18:01] So this is kind of like a formality, nothing really is going to change in my opinion after

[1:18:06] hearing whatever it's so far.

[1:18:08] But also what I heard was, and my concern about the, I really don't like the improvements

[1:18:15] that were done along lymphatic hand in there, the improvements, in that there are dead.

[1:18:21] There are always been dead and they look like hell and I wouldn't want something like that

[1:18:26] on our bluff top and so I think we have to have some kind of watering if it's by hand,

[1:18:33] it's not going to go so deep as to cause a cliff failure.

[1:18:38] But you can't have what's dropped tolerant, that doesn't mean that it never gets a new water

[1:18:43] and we'll survive. You have to water plants. So anyway, that's all I got. Thank you.

[1:18:49] Thank you. Christina Hargate, followed by Rick Lindgren.

[1:19:01] The resolution says these improvements are designed to make the area more welcoming and accessible

[1:19:06] to the public by preserving the natural character of the site. But that is exactly where I see

[1:19:12] a contradiction. A drinking fountain potentially a bright blue structure placed predominantly

[1:19:19] within the street view may seem like a minor improvement when considered by itself.

[1:19:24] A sign may also seem minor, a bench may seem minor.

[1:19:28] Treyah markers, bulldozers, signs, educational signs, safety signs, landscaping.

[1:19:34] They may each be characterized individually as a small,

[1:19:38] but the planning commission should not evaluate these elements in isolation.

[1:19:42] The real issue is their cumulative effect.

[1:19:44] When all these structures, signs, amenities, or install together, the results may no longer look or feel like a natural blood tub.

[1:19:53] It begins to look designed, programmed, and developed.

[1:19:57] That is particularly important because this is not a park.

[1:20:00] This is a coastal open space area whose visual character comes from its simplicity and natural setting.

[1:20:09] The resolution itself states that the project will not be visually intrusive from public viewpoints,

[1:20:15] but if a brightly colored drinking fountain or other man made the infrastructure becomes visible from the street

[1:20:22] that finding deserves much closer scrutiny.

[1:20:27] Something can be small in physical size, but still have a significant visual impact.

[1:20:33] We as neighbors are also concerned about the message the city is unintentionally sent by formalizing and promoting trails that lead down from the bluff.

[1:20:44] Once the city installed the signage, materials, amenities, the members of the public,

[1:20:50] may reasonably interpret those roots or CD approved and safe for ordinarily recreational use.

[1:21:00] I want to acknowledge something important. I understand that the CD's hands might be tied

[1:21:05] to some extent because of the requirement of the settlement agreement. But the surrounding

[1:21:10] neighbors did nothing wrong. We should not be the ones expected to be the consequences,

[1:21:15] is traffic, crowd, noise, safety concerns,

[1:21:20] loss of the natural character of our neighborhood,

[1:21:23] and potentially reduced property values.

[1:21:26] The city may have an obligation under the settlement,

[1:21:30] but it also has an obligation to protect the residents

[1:21:33] who already live there, and those who will

[1:21:37] responsibilities should not be treated as mutually exclusive.

[1:21:43] Before approving this project, I asked the Commission to consider the entire project as people will

[1:21:49] actually experience it, not one fountain, not one sign, but all these improvements together.

[1:21:56] The question should be, after everything is installed, will this still feel like the natural

[1:22:01] do not obey bluff top we are trying to preserve and will the public understand the real risks

[1:22:07] of accessing the bluff below.

[1:22:10] Great. Thank you so much, Shia. Your time is up.

[1:22:16] Rick Lendron.

[1:22:26] Rick Lendron, 424, Avenue, and Morolla,

[1:22:29] not going to rehash what everyone here has said.

[1:22:32] There's pretty much consensus.

[1:22:34] Big thing is we all feel like we were not in the loop

[1:22:39] on anything that came up to this.

[1:22:41] There's reasons why that happened, but that is a problem.

[1:22:45] I don't know how we resolve it at this point.

[1:22:47] when we have a month to get this project done

[1:22:50] or we're open up for litigation or the city has no money.

[1:22:54] Just want to reiterate, drinking fountain

[1:22:57] if there's any way to move it, it should be moved.

[1:23:00] It's not appropriate for where you're planning to place it.

[1:23:05] The other thing is you are as far as we've talked about liability.

[1:23:09] Has anyone gone down that trail recently?

[1:23:13] You know, it's like it's not a safe trail and you're directing people to go down it.

[1:23:21] There needs to be a sign that says, okay, where do you go down it?

[1:23:24] You have to go down it.

[1:23:25] You're on risk.

[1:23:26] Danger don't fall.

[1:23:27] If you fall, you can't sue us.

[1:23:28] Whatever it is, you're creating a massive hazard.

[1:23:33] I understand the settlement, it was requiring that, but you're talking about money for the

[1:23:40] I don't know how the liability works when someone does fall off a cliff, who gets sued,

[1:23:45] especially when there's a sign going, hey, go to this trail.

[1:23:50] So it's, I don't know who needs to go down that trail, but you really do.

[1:23:55] It's not a safe trail.

[1:23:57] And I appreciate your time.

[1:23:59] I appreciate the City Manager, Deputy City Manager, Public Works Director,

[1:24:02] coming out and meeting with us earlier and explaining what's going on.

[1:24:07] That's it.

[1:24:07] Thanks for your time.

[1:24:08] Thank you so much.

[1:24:12] Those are all the speaker cards I have.

[1:24:15] Does anyone else wish to speak that has not submitted a card?

[1:24:18] We have a gentleman over there raising your hand.

[1:24:19] Thank you, sir.

[1:24:20] Come on up and please say your name.

[1:24:26] My name is Moe Zina Senth, and I live on Viana Kappa.

[1:24:30] I echo most of the sentiment that the Ms. Zina Senth share with you.

[1:24:34] But I think we're going about the wrong way.

[1:24:36] I think the many books out there you could read,

[1:24:38] but the idea of the coastline.

[1:24:41] And I think because you're looking at what the coast of commission

[1:24:44] is asking me to do, you ignore in several factors.

[1:24:48] I can repeat that the attorney is afraid of litigation.

[1:24:50] Don't be afraid of that.

[1:24:52] Don't be afraid of it.

[1:24:53] Go to the opening, consider commission and inform them

[1:24:57] of what the resident wants and what's the...

[1:25:01] Now the bench 25 feet, I walk the doors all the time there and it's less than 25 feet. That means you're going to put the bench closest to the cliff. And like last gentleman said, people are going to hear people are going to die. That's it. Thank you.

[1:25:21] Thank you so much.

[1:25:26] Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this topic before we close gentlemen's coming up? Thank you.

[1:25:32] It's okay. We could fill one out afterwards, please. Thank you.

[1:25:37] My name is Tim Good. I live at 549, Pacellonado.

[1:25:42] So just up to street, I moved to, well not a band, 1958.

[1:25:49] I had to move out after high school, but I've recently moved back about 10 years ago.

[1:25:57] I'm a really afraid of the water issue.

[1:25:59] And I know that you know it'll have a valve and everything,

[1:26:05] but if you look at Christmas tree

[1:26:07] cove, we'll make slide there.

[1:26:10] Love cove, we'll make slide there.

[1:26:13] Portuguese bend, all about water.

[1:26:17] So why are we introducing water to learn how to bathe?

[1:26:21] It doesn't make any sense to me.

[1:26:27] So I'm absolutely shocked by the idea that we'd be having this hearing one month before the project has to be finished, but I guess that's just how it came down.

[1:26:42] But I don't know how you could, I don't know how you could delay it, whether you'd call up the plaintiffs and say, hey, can you give us another 30 days?

[1:26:50] I don't know what you want, a few is residents to threaten litigation, but it just seems

[1:26:59] like this project needs a lot more thought.

[1:27:04] The idea that you're going to build something that's not according to the plans doesn't

[1:27:09] make any sense to me, not at all.

[1:27:12] Thank you.

[1:27:17] Thank you, Mr. Good.

[1:27:19] Anyone else?

[1:27:19] last call. Your chance to speak. Okay. Hearing none, we will close the public hearing and bring it back.

[1:27:27] I wouldn't be appropriate, Ms. Castillo, to allow city staff to address any of the issues,

[1:27:32] or would you like the commission to then conduct our deliberation? I think the commission would

[1:27:40] like to address or repeat some of the questions that were posed by the public to staff,

[1:27:44] we can do that. Okay. All right. So we will we will deliberate here and

[1:27:49] host questions to city staff based on what we heard.

[1:27:51] Thank you everyone for speaking out.

[1:27:54] Lots of good feedback here and clearly there's a lot of good ideas here that will take

[1:27:59] under advisement.

[1:28:00] But I'll just start with the first question.

[1:28:02] It's a legal question about liability of the city if someone were to take the trail down

[1:28:07] and get injured.

[1:28:08] What kind of liability does that open the city up to?

[1:28:12] So, this city has something called trail immunity.

[1:28:16] So, if there is a undeveloped trail, anything that trail, any harm, injuries that occur on that trail,

[1:28:26] due to the natural features of that trail does not impose liability on the city.

[1:28:33] Once it becomes even with a sign that's pointing, and I don't know if this, I don't think I saw this sign that points to guess.

[1:28:40] None of the signs actually say, do they actually, I don't know, Mr.

[1:28:43] Antillian, is there a sign that actually points to a trail and says the way down.

[1:28:47] I'm looking at the trails and it just says, welcome to the Leonardo Bay, danger, unstable

[1:28:51] bluff, keep on the trail and then welcome to the Leonardo Bay, and then another one.

[1:28:57] Are there any that actually point down to say, this is the way down to the, to the, there

[1:29:02] is?

[1:29:02] So the signs themselves do not matter, it's the nature of the trail itself.

[1:29:08] Okay. The signs do not matter. It's the nature of the trail.

[1:29:13] The signs don't change trail immunity is what you're saying.

[1:29:16] Yeah.

[1:29:16] Fail immunity happens.

[1:29:17] As long as the city doesn't do any improvements to the trail,

[1:29:20] it's trail immunity.

[1:29:22] Correct.

[1:29:23] Okay.

[1:29:23] Can we revise the signs without any legal?

[1:29:30] Can you be a question?

[1:29:31] Can we revise the signs that you have there?

[1:29:35] Those have been discussed at length

[1:29:38] with plaintiff's council, I'm not sure it depends on what changes you're requesting.

[1:29:47] I have a question.

[1:29:49] After these improvements,

[1:29:51] is the trail is still considered undeveloped?

[1:29:54] Yes.

[1:29:56] Okay.

[1:29:57] And then, Mr. Antilian,

[1:29:58] another question about what was brought up.

[1:30:00] Is the sign that has the rules on it? Can you go through what the rules are, have those been agreed to, and is that already a sign that's installed?

[1:30:10] That's correct. That sign is already installed and it's on the bottom, it's on the page actually. You can see it from the top.

[1:30:19] I can't read and I remember all the rules. Do you remember some of those?

[1:30:23] I don't, but just to clarify, I think we'll help that, that sign is one of the first things

[1:30:31] we had to install on us, on the beach. It's not at the bottom of the cliff. I don't think

[1:30:34] there's an intention to put rules on the top of the cliff. Remember, you know, also, go ahead.

[1:30:42] Before, also, I just want to bring to your attention, that sign did go before the Planning Commission.

[1:30:48] and I believe in 2025 for the approval of the sign

[1:30:52] and it had all the language in it too.

[1:30:55] So that sign is only when you get down to the bottom

[1:30:57] of the cliff.

[1:31:00] When all of this was going being negotiated

[1:31:04] and the settlement was being worked on,

[1:31:07] one of the things that was really in everybody's mind

[1:31:13] was the least amount of signs the better,

[1:31:18] The mouth that they want it to what they have now.

[1:31:21] There are signs that we have were required to put on

[1:31:24] Pelsford-Strive West that says beach access.

[1:31:26] Those were installed a year ago, one's at Yarmeth,

[1:31:30] and the other one is at, I can't remember the name of the street,

[1:31:32] at the top of my head, but so those have been there a year

[1:31:37] indicating those are the beach access.

[1:31:40] That was something, or coastal access, I think it says.

[1:31:42] That was a requirement, all of this.

[1:31:45] You know, I think the city council and staff felt that the least amount of signs the better.

[1:31:53] And I remember literally arguing with them about signs.

[1:31:57] So we did not intend to put a rule sign for my understanding on top of the bluff top.

[1:32:03] We built a second one of those signs because we didn't anticipate it being destroyed and removed by now.

[1:32:11] surprisingly, it's still there. I was out there today. I was surprised that it was still there,

[1:32:15] but we really don't want it. It's not our intention to put out more signs.

[1:32:21] Got it.

[1:32:24] Any other follow-up questions for staff based on what we heard?

[1:32:28] I guess my question, Commissioner Nendick, kind of brought it up, is what can we affect here?

[1:32:37] Can we make a, if we say, we vote to pass this, this resolution, can we put stipulations on it, or are we, what can we affect?

[1:32:52] Let me, let me, let me address that. You know, I think that the community and the public and the public and the commissioner and the tough position here.

[1:33:02] This is a been going on for a long time.

[1:33:08] Everyone's looking to get this behind us.

[1:33:10] Everyone's looking to lessen risk exposure to the city.

[1:33:15] One of the speakers talked about why are we being punished.

[1:33:19] I can tell you that nobody on the city side wanted to have to do all of this.

[1:33:25] But looking at the big picture and why I spent so much time at the beginning

[1:33:28] on the threat that we were looking at.

[1:33:30] the tens to $100 million that the city council was looking at.

[1:33:34] Those were real threats and I came in in this at the end.

[1:33:40] And it was interesting for me to come in with a different perspective.

[1:33:43] I didn't have the eight years of this that everyone else had dealt with.

[1:33:47] I only had what I was being put in front of me.

[1:33:50] But those were some we were looking at some very, very scary numbers.

[1:33:55] And if we had lost, the council and staff

[1:33:59] and when we tried to work this out, did everything we can to do the minimum required, and that's

[1:34:05] exactly what we did. You guys are in a tough position. Can you deny this? I'm sure you can.

[1:34:14] I'd say that if you do consider denying it, please keep in mind sort of the big picture of what we're

[1:34:23] dealing with, and the risks that we're taking on.

[1:34:26] I hear a lot of questions about litigation.

[1:34:30] And I hear a resident say that the city staff did some bad things.

[1:34:38] Maybe they did.

[1:34:40] But I can tell you, we are in multiple litigation right now that the city did nothing on.

[1:34:48] We are in litigation because we pull over an e-biker and he ran and then he crashed

[1:34:52] our officer and then he crashed his bike and he'd broke his arm and

[1:35:00] The parents sued the city for this. For millions of dollars. Now, we had to defend that, and we did, and that

[1:35:08] case was thrown out, luckily. But these are the real things that we deal with every single day. So

[1:35:15] that's why this has to go to the planning commission. You have every right to deny it. I'll get to some

[1:35:21] ideas on changes you can make. I just think it's really, really important that everybody understands

[1:35:27] all of what we're dealing with here.

[1:35:30] You know, what can we change?

[1:35:32] I've already committed to trying to move the water fountain.

[1:35:38] I looked it up again in the thing.

[1:35:41] And it says, it has to be near to Mr. Shobal's point.

[1:35:49] I have the name, it's have a need of Merola.

[1:35:52] And that's what it says.

[1:35:54] I don't interpret that. I don't, I don't know but we certainly can try to get it. I had

[1:36:00] some people to say, wanted it. Was that to the north and that's what people want it to the

[1:36:05] south today? Tell me that. By the way, it's not going to be blue. That's just, that's just

[1:36:10] a rendering. It's going to be brown. I've told people that today, I don't on the

[1:36:13] bluff top. It will be brown.

[1:36:17] Can you condition it to not have the water

[1:36:20] social station? Sure. Of course you can. Why is the water

[1:36:24] station? I think that's what we're all moving these days is to encourage

[1:36:28] people to show their own water bottles. But if you want to make it lower,

[1:36:32] we can definitely do that.

[1:36:35] In looking in here, it says the interpretive sign

[1:36:38] needs to be at the south trail. So it says it in it. I can certainly ask

[1:36:45] and I've already committed to asking that. It also says that it needs the

[1:36:48] the plantings need to direct people to the south as well.

[1:36:52] So that's why you're seeing some of the plantings is to catch the eye.

[1:36:55] The whole idea behind this is with the city was risking not making this place accessible to the public,

[1:37:02] and the idea behind these plaintiffs is to make it more accessible to the public.

[1:37:08] So that's why we got here, and that's why what you see on these plants.

[1:37:12] As we're releasing the irrigation, that's a cost consideration that we're

[1:37:18] We're going to make. I didn't say it earlier, but we've already talked internally about it.

[1:37:23] We can water by hand and to clarify the question, the irrigation was being put in, but

[1:37:30] when it was turned on, the requirement is that a human being has to be out there to make sure

[1:37:36] that there's no problems. No runoff, right? No runoff. But we will definitely look at the

[1:37:41] costs associated with not putting in the irrigation and handwatering it to the establishment period.

[1:37:47] That would ultimately be a city council decision because it's a budget consideration.

[1:37:51] They've approved it as is.

[1:37:53] If it's less money, great.

[1:37:55] If it's more money, then the council will have to decide that.

[1:37:58] So you can certainly ask for that.

[1:38:03] What else?

[1:38:04] I think that.

[1:38:04] We're talking about the locations on the bench.

[1:38:06] Sorry.

[1:38:07] Let me speak to that really quick.

[1:38:09] So we did the geotech report because she's a requirement by the coastal commission.

[1:38:14] And that's something that we did after the exam was complete.

[1:38:19] That's probably why some of the benches still show a little bit close, but it's a

[1:38:23] change that I can see making without any pushback from the cost of commission, because

[1:38:27] it's actually there requires to do the G.O.T.

[1:38:29] So we can put a condition that all the improvements, I.E. the benches, et cetera, have to be

[1:38:36] in compliance with the G.O.T.

[1:38:37] In compliance, which is states 25 feet.

[1:38:41] So that's the thing.

[1:38:41] we can put some conditions, I'm not saying, we don't have a choice about this to certain

[1:38:48] extent, but we do have to respect what our findings say about impeding views and things

[1:38:55] like this and what our community says. So I think there's a balance here, and I think

[1:39:01] that's what people are trying to say, what is the balance?

[1:39:03] And if I, you know, another thing that I might want to,

[1:39:10] I mean, if I can find my cursor, so another thing,

[1:39:18] and I wasn't here when the original design was considered,

[1:39:24] I think the plantings were probably a desire to keep them,

[1:39:32] so that they're only interfere with the view.

[1:39:35] And if you can see this cut of the cliff,

[1:39:38] and if you look at where the areas are,

[1:39:40] where the plantings are,

[1:39:42] are there kind of a low area that doesn't affect the view.

[1:39:47] And I can see that's probably a consideration

[1:39:50] that the design team came up with

[1:39:54] where they wanted to put those plantings.

[1:39:57] And if you look at the locations,

[1:39:59] especially on the South Trail.

[1:40:00] It's a little bit lower area, right by the trail. Again, it's close to the cliff, I think.

[1:40:09] Right, but there's not a big drop on the other planting area, by the, by the sewer.

[1:40:17] Is this term grain, sorry?

[1:40:21] Is that something we can make a stipulation on, revising the softscape or the planting?

[1:40:30] Revising the types of planting?

[1:40:32] Revising the height.

[1:40:33] Well, we can make one condition in height

[1:40:35] because of the height of the height.

[1:40:37] Because height is something that we can maintain it

[1:40:39] to a certain height.

[1:40:41] Yeah, absolutely.

[1:40:43] Yes.

[1:40:46] Right, but we can also stipulate plants

[1:40:50] that mature should not be higher than x, y, z.

[1:40:55] And that way you have the ability to change your plants

[1:40:58] What works for you,

[1:41:03] right?

[1:41:03] Yes. I mean, it's also, you know, one of the plans can get pretty high, somebody already mentioned that.

[1:41:11] Right, the lemon berry.

[1:41:13] But it's one of the best plans to actually control erosion.

[1:41:17] Yeah, but I think it's a mixture because I read some articles that said it actually in worst case can get 30.

[1:41:24] Very handy.

[1:41:25] And so I think that we have to be realistic about why we would even put in something that we know at a minimum that you're saying 10 feet.

[1:41:33] Well, I looked up the numbers on these when you look in the book.

[1:41:36] So I mean, I think this is a fair statement that the people are worried about how tall.

[1:41:41] Because maintenance is expensive.

[1:41:42] Let's just be honest.

[1:41:43] We all have to maintain things.

[1:41:45] So I don't know why we would put in things that we know that we're going to have to do continual maintenance on to maintain the heights.

[1:41:52] that if whether what's it's conditioned upon.

[1:41:59] Look at me.

[1:42:01] Yeah, so I don't know.

[1:42:03] Wait, I don't know.

[1:42:04] I mean, there's a number of plants on the list here.

[1:42:07] I think one of them is showing a maximum height of could

[1:42:10] grow to 10 feet at maturity.

[1:42:12] And so I think what we're saying and what Vice Chair Nendick

[1:42:15] is saying is why you even consider a plant

[1:42:17] that would have the potential to grow that high

[1:42:19] while the other six or seven on this list

[1:42:22] show a max height of 4 feet at maturity.

[1:42:25] I think it's to go with the, I'm assuming Carl had a hand in picking out a lot of these

[1:42:30] and it's to match the rest of the cliffs because they, that's.

[1:42:35] And lemon berries come on on the cliffs, especially in some of the areas that are being

[1:42:39] very stable.

[1:42:40] You can see them right next to P.V. Drive, that's probably why it was selected.

[1:42:44] Like I said, I wasn't here, but I can see the thought process on the design team.

[1:42:50] Again, it's something that stabilizes the cliff really well.

[1:42:53] But we can maintain it to three feet, for example, so that's I think we can put that in.

[1:43:00] Yeah, I mean, I think the answer here is just providing a condition of the max height that they

[1:43:05] have to maintain it out the city has to maintain it as opposed to us nitpicking on which

[1:43:09] for idols to put in.

[1:43:10] Right, but here's my point is that I think we need to have a discussion, I mean, we could put a

[1:43:14] condition that says using, you know, plant books, encyclopedia references, no plants should be

[1:43:25] mature height higher than X, then they can do whatever they want to do, but we're

[1:43:30] trying, we're limiting because the idea that you put in something that you know can

[1:43:34] grow to tall, and you have to continually trim it, and we're always out of money,

[1:43:38] it's not realistic. So you're leaving the idea that the design team can control

[1:43:44] whatever they want, but you're just saying, you know, I mean, I went online, I got my

[1:43:50] books out at home, and then, you know, we need to be realistic about what we're

[1:43:54] putting in here, and what we're adding more work for the city.

[1:44:00] Agreed.

[1:44:01] Oscar, you keep mentioning that the, was it lemon berry?

[1:44:05] Yeah, lemon berry.

[1:44:06] It was good for the cliff stabilization.

[1:44:08] I know you're not a plant expert.

[1:44:09] Can we live with not having lemon berry out there

[1:44:12] since it does grow past 10 feet?

[1:44:16] And, or do you know of another plant that grows to four feet

[1:44:19] that also is good with cliff stabilization?

[1:44:22] And it's native.

[1:44:23] Wouldn't that go to Carl?

[1:44:24] I mean, isn't that a recommendation easy for him?

[1:44:27] I mean, as we use our landscape consultant actually

[1:44:30] crawled, deals with more trees, but it does.

[1:44:37] So it's the areas that I think we have limb and bury,

[1:44:40] and they don't go more than three feet.

[1:44:43] It's right where in PV drive West, right before you hit the double.

[1:44:51] Here we have them now.

[1:44:53] We have them now.

[1:44:53] I mean, but in an effort to, to,

[1:45:01] You know, work with people's concerns, can we, can we, is the eye on the moving lemon barrier from this project, or you think it's better to condition it at the knockout or certain height?

[1:45:13] I think it's better to condition it in the knockout to certain height. Lemumbury does grow to certain heights, where it's kind of left alone and on my team.

[1:45:24] And also, if we substitute the plant, I don't know if we need to send it back to the plant

[1:45:28] if we want to change this.

[1:45:32] I don't, I don't want to argue with you, but the plant is going to don't get depict plants.

[1:45:38] That was my question.

[1:45:38] Did they specify the plants?

[1:45:40] They did not.

[1:45:41] The settlement agreement says that the cities shall use for their landscaping drought, tolerant

[1:45:48] native plants. Design to remove invasive species such as mustard and fennel and include

[1:45:54] native southern California plant species. The landscape and shall be professionally designed

[1:45:59] and have a natural appearance, but also direct visitors to the south trail to ensure that the

[1:46:03] shoreline access to the south trail is identified. And it shall be planted in a way that direct

[1:46:09] visitors away from cliffs and false trails to the shoreline and direct visitors to the below

[1:46:17] self-trail. And then finally, the landscaping shall be designed and maintained to not permanently

[1:46:23] block any current residential views.

[1:46:27] So what I'm hearing is that if we want to limit the height,

[1:46:33] that is allowed under the settlement agreement, I don't know, species is not required as long

[1:46:42] is it's dropped tolerant?

[1:46:46] So what I'm hearing from you is we can say we don't want any species put in that can grow

[1:46:51] taller than x, y, or z.

[1:46:54] I would encourage the condition to be more so that the city landscape consultant makes a

[1:47:02] determination on the type of type of landscaping, a type of plant that doesn't seem to

[1:47:10] Right.

[1:47:11] So what she said?

[1:47:12] So it just makes it simple and straightforward.

[1:47:15] We're trying to protect things.

[1:47:16] Yes.

[1:47:18] And that height seems to be...

[1:47:19] Oh, we can talk about that.

[1:47:20] We'll talk about that, but...

[1:47:22] Well, it's difficult because you're talking about...

[1:47:24] When you look at the grading, it's...

[1:47:26] You know, when you look at the map, it's planted below.

[1:47:30] So it has to grow up.

[1:47:31] So it's...

[1:47:32] Yeah.

[1:47:32] Right.

[1:47:32] But also, in that one area that's really near the street.

[1:47:36] Yeah.

[1:47:36] So, and you can't say here, here, here, we need to just say a blanket condition, like for whatever works for it.

[1:47:43] Yeah, whatever works for that area, I think we just go forward.

[1:47:50] For me, I read this, the geology, and it says we can't have things 25 feet.

[1:47:57] So I think we need to have a condition that says that respect the geologists report for the setbacks, something.

[1:48:08] I'd be from the bluff said.

[1:48:09] But usually it's just unfortunate.

[1:48:12] Usually when a coastal development permit goes before the planning commission, there are recommendations from the city geologists.

[1:48:20] You usually see the plan incorporating the conditions of approval.

[1:48:24] It's unfortunate we didn't get the final approval from the City Geologists.

[1:48:30] We got his recommendations and there was in the time to revise the plan.

[1:48:35] So if we can do a condition that we need to respect the City Geologists, that's a need to

[1:48:39] comply with the recommendations.

[1:48:42] Correct.

[1:48:43] Because I think that, because one of my things was that the seats in my opinion are too

[1:48:48] close because it goes running.

[1:48:50] So that takes care of that.

[1:48:53] Correct.

[1:48:53] the 25 feet?

[1:48:55] The geotech report dictates where we can actually place them.

[1:48:58] So we have to follow that.

[1:49:01] And like I say, it was the geotech report

[1:49:04] came after the design of...

[1:49:05] No, I understand that, but I'm saying what we typically do

[1:49:09] is we put conditions.

[1:49:11] We don't just say, we trust whatever is going to happen

[1:49:15] and because it's not what we do, right?

[1:49:18] We say, if we feel something's important like the report,

[1:49:21] But we make a condition that the applicant has to apply.

[1:49:27] I think what you're both saying is just on the plans that will say a note, comply with

[1:49:31] City Geologist recommendation.

[1:49:34] Well, I think we need to make a condition that says we have to have that on the plans.

[1:49:38] Because otherwise, like to, but that's what we're asking for.

[1:49:42] Yes, that's what we put on there.

[1:49:45] We're all saying the same thing.

[1:49:52] Did you have a couple more things you wanted to go over?

[1:49:55] or I want to go to your home, what about irrigation?

[1:49:58] Irrigation.

[1:49:58] Let's talk about that.

[1:50:00] Yeah, it seems like, obviously there's a lot of concern about installing an irrigation system, and I know cost was brought up by City Manager callman about hand watering, but I think that's likely where we need to lean towards because of the concerns and seems like irrigation systems that have been installed stop working after a short period of time.

[1:50:22] And to be clear, it was just they needed irrigation to get the planting started, right?

[1:50:30] Yes.

[1:50:31] There's nothing in that there's nothing in the settlement agreement about irrigation.

[1:50:36] It's already going to get the planting established.

[1:50:40] Okay.

[1:50:41] So, I would support, you know, the stipulations being no irrigation.

[1:50:45] Just hand water.

[1:50:46] Okay.

[1:50:47] So we've tackled the setback.

[1:50:48] We've tackled irrigation.

[1:50:50] And I think we need to tackle the drinking station and then I want to talk about the benches.

[1:50:56] You had brought up, I believe, that they're spaced really close together in a certain area.

[1:51:02] And I just wonder if we can space them out.

[1:51:04] And maybe only do one bench in an area as opposed to two or three.

[1:51:08] So that congregation of people is not as natural.

[1:51:13] Right.

[1:51:14] Oh.

[1:51:15] Wait, can you bring that plan back up?

[1:51:17] I don't think they are.

[1:51:18] They're not.

[1:51:19] Yeah, they're not.

[1:51:20] Maybe I'm going off of what I saw you now.

[1:51:22] Right now.

[1:51:23] That's just all that.

[1:51:23] I mean, we're not going to stick.

[1:51:25] We're off off.

[1:51:25] Yeah, they've got sour.

[1:51:27] I think the question was more, for me, the one that is at the South Trail is in a scary location

[1:51:33] to me.

[1:51:35] You know, when I went out and measured not only is it's on the sloping land, right?

[1:51:40] But, and you have to dig down into it.

[1:51:42] It's just too close.

[1:51:43] But if the geologist says, you can't have them within 25 feet, then basically that's

[1:51:51] really.

[1:51:52] The geologist says this, so then what about the interpretive sign that's right on the edge

[1:51:57] of their tube?

[1:51:58] Can that, that's an improvement, so that has to be 25 feet away?

[1:52:03] I will do the same thing with that.

[1:52:05] I feel comfortable enough to say, because it's a cost of commission requirement anyway.

[1:52:10] If they don't want us to affect the glyphs in a way that is good or destabilizing, so we'll

[1:52:17] do that as well.

[1:52:18] We're going to look to move that to a different location.

[1:52:20] That's going to require the plane F2 degree, but we can move it away from the bluff top,

[1:52:25] no problem.

[1:52:26] That's signs being installed by our own staff.

[1:52:29] So there's no problem stipulating that that needs to be 25 feet away.

[1:52:33] I was out there today and for the bench in that location, there's a much better location

[1:52:37] that shows on the conceptual plan that we'll have no problem placing the bench.

[1:52:43] Okay, so to my question, I'm looking at the plans that sheet number two of nine, where it says

[1:52:48] Roxy, is that just mean one, Roxy, in each spot, there's no quantity there, so I assume

[1:52:55] Roxy with an arrow means just one.

[1:52:57] It's one.

[1:52:58] There's four of those.

[1:52:59] Yes, four in total.

[1:53:06] So the ice spread out.

[1:53:07] My big worry was the one that was on right over there, so there's the four benches

[1:53:11] in the location, the approximate location. Again, we'll move them to beat 25 feet from to

[1:53:17] comply with the geographic report. At least 25 feet, I think, is the language.

[1:53:21] So we've got the irrigation, the benches. The line, the water cooler. Now we've, yeah, yeah.

[1:53:29] So drinking fountain. To me, the water cooler, here's one thing that's hard for me to understand.

[1:53:35] I see the trail that's going to be at the bluff top. I see it splits in two locations, okay?

[1:53:40] But then I keep hearing you say that you're not touching the trails that are out there.

[1:53:45] When I'm out there, there's trails going every different direction.

[1:53:48] So I'm trying to understand what we're...

[1:53:52] Is that not true?

[1:53:53] Well, I mean, I think there's more trails than what we actually call it, the official trail.

[1:53:57] So we only have one long line, right?

[1:54:01] It is, we go to demarcate that prevailing trail.

[1:54:07] We're not going to create any more.

[1:54:09] Right, but I mean because there's several you right there's more than that line in there. So it's nothing being dirt done except for some markers

[1:54:17] I guess right correct everything because

[1:54:22] Two things one I think the markers where it breaks on that first one coming from the north

[1:54:28] That path is scary close to the edge that maybe if you move the markers further down and try to get the break further south because

[1:54:36] I wish.

[1:54:38] I mean, so that's one thing, but the water fountain,

[1:54:43] we were talking about the water fountain.

[1:54:45] So I think that personally, I think that adding the top makes it more, it's not natural

[1:54:55] at all.

[1:54:56] The plans that their thing had just a lower one without

[1:55:00] The water bottle filler. To me, I got the dimensions. I think we did to just cap the height of it, right?

[1:55:08] Well, I think that if you don't put the water bottle, seeing on it.

[1:55:13] How much is 54 inches, I think, the water fountain?

[1:55:16] With the top water bottle.

[1:55:18] Okay. So without that.

[1:55:19] I don't think it's a requirement on the water feeling.

[1:55:24] It's approximately 55 inches in height spanning 49 inches in width.

[1:55:29] So, I'm just, that becomes really big.

[1:55:33] So, if you take that off of there, for me, and number one, number two, I think, I don't

[1:55:40] know what everyone thinks, but the second split in the path, I think that is a more natural

[1:55:48] location to put it at so that people, when the path's merged and you put it next to those

[1:55:53] rocks that kind of break up, visual that's in your face of it, that it might make more

[1:55:59] since there, because everything right at the end of Avenue,

[1:56:04] Merola is not a natural look.

[1:56:07] So you're saying it's over here at this bottom?

[1:56:10] Yeah, we should.

[1:56:11] Do you have a picture that's a little bit?

[1:56:13] Are you talking more north?

[1:56:15] Yeah, north.

[1:56:16] No, I'm talking south.

[1:56:17] Oh, south.

[1:56:18] So, I think it's outside the project area, though.

[1:56:21] No, it's not when you, here's the project area.

[1:56:24] Here's this thing.

[1:56:28] You can see here.

[1:56:30] This is the project area, right?

[1:56:32] It's right here.

[1:56:37] Well, I think you should pull up Google Maps on your computer and then we can see it as a group.

[1:56:42] Yes.

[1:56:42] Or if you have a sheet, two of these plans.

[1:56:47] So you see it's in this project area.

[1:56:50] This right here.

[1:56:51] Right here.

[1:56:52] So I think that's.

[1:56:55] If it's over here.

[1:56:58] Because one house.

[1:57:00] I believe near.

[1:57:01] One house is near.

[1:57:03] If it's on one house the way is near a street. I mean, we don't have a definition of near

[1:57:10] though

[1:57:10] Right, do I just trying to figure that out just now so I mean we got nowhere

[1:57:14] So let's know where near the answer one house the way from a street is near when you're driving you go

[1:57:20] I'm near

[1:57:22] So I'm just thinking if it's weird the two split that's where people otherwise if it's over on one side here

[1:57:28] Everyone's gonna make their own paths over to it constantly

[1:57:31] So you're talking on this, right here, or can you blow it up a little?

[1:57:41] I think you're talking in front of 2,500% LMR.

[1:57:45] Okay, see?

[1:57:46] Good, but the circle is black and white circle.

[1:57:51] So this is the end of the trail or of the project limits, right?

[1:57:57] Not over there.

[1:57:59] Go to your left, your left, your left there, where it splits.

[1:58:02] All right here.

[1:58:03] Can you zoom in?

[1:58:10] So this area right here.

[1:58:12] Right, because if you're going to put some boulders there that you show, you call them your trail markers or whatever, and you have

[1:58:19] This there with the boulders people aren't going to just see this stainless steel

[1:58:24] thing, right?

[1:58:26] So it kind of breaks it up some. It's still near, but it's better access for both trails. Otherwise, it's just for the trail up above not the trail

[1:58:35] Where you're showing everyone to go. Yes, and I think that's still close to

[1:58:42] where we were thinking, connecting the water.

[1:58:45] Yes.

[1:58:45] Right.

[1:58:45] And you can move the water.

[1:58:47] Because your pipe goes all along that street.

[1:58:51] So you can connect down further.

[1:58:53] And then the other thing I think we should condition.

[1:58:56] If we're not going to put the irrigation system in,

[1:58:59] we don't need to put all the pipes in and do all the digging

[1:59:02] to put the wheeling, right?

[1:59:05] Because you can see, on one of the pages, all the different pipes and things,

[1:59:09] I think we only need a pipe going over and out for the watering, the what do you call it, the drinking fountain.

[1:59:19] The only thing is that location maybe within the 25 feet setback.

[1:59:25] Right, that's yet.

[1:59:26] Might not be.

[1:59:27] See, that's the problem with all because I don't know where the 25, let's see.

[1:59:34] Cynthia, let me see if I can pull that image.

[1:59:38] I'm going to pull Google Maps.

[1:59:41] Do you?

[1:59:41] I'll pull Google Maps.

[1:59:55] I won't be pulling that up.

[1:59:57] Was there anything any other items?

[2:00:04] They already have a warning sign.

[2:00:10] I think just to be clear, we need to put a condition that all the rock seats are to be from PV stone, like at states and these things, because that's what neighbors asked about, and then it's just there.

[2:00:20] They're sitting out there in a big pile.

[2:00:22] Yeah, I know they're sitting out there, but it's just a straightforward thing to keep it clean.

[2:00:27] And neighbors asked for that, and I think it's a reasonable thing.

[2:00:37] You zoom in on, so cool, Matt.

[2:00:42] You're going to go a little bit further south right there, go, keep going, keep going.

[2:00:47] So right where the trail, that's hard to see where the trail is, but I'm sure by sure

[2:00:52] Nendick, he's got the map up if you zoom in.

[2:00:54] Maybe where that car is driving.

[2:00:56] It's a little bit to the right of where the car looks like.

[2:01:00] We're here?

[2:01:00] No, not that.

[2:01:01] No, a little bit.

[2:01:02] You're basically at the end of where you're going to do any vegetation.

[2:01:08] Go the other car.

[2:01:11] No, they're not that far.

[2:01:13] Between the south of that car.

[2:01:15] Between the two cars, basically.

[2:01:18] That would be 25 feet, at least from the edge.

[2:01:21] Well, I think you wanted about that location, but then you have to figure out what 25 feet is from the edge, right?

[2:01:27] But there's also a...

[2:01:28] Choose it in the report and the geotechnical report and choose the 25 feet if you pull it up.

[2:01:33] Yeah, if you can pull that image that you showed me from the geotechnic report,

[2:01:38] which page was that?

[2:01:39] It's page figure 5.

[2:01:43] Page 5, yeah.

[2:01:45] It says horizontal setback from the bluff should be 25 feet.

[2:01:50] Proposed improvements should not be located within 25 feet of top line.

[2:02:13] It's big five.

[2:02:14] Ah, big.

[2:02:16] It's big five.

[2:02:17] It's big.

[2:02:17] It's a potato chip or it can show you.

[2:02:21] There.

[2:02:22] It's aged 18.

[2:02:27] Interesting though.

[2:02:28] How the green line cuts.

[2:02:30] I look like it's, it may not be that accurate.

[2:02:34] It's just an idea.

[2:02:35] Don't grammatic, maybe.

[2:02:46] So the green line is a 25 feet.

[2:02:50] What do I think?

[2:02:50] back. Correct. Right, but I think as Commissioner Cashley said, is the green line doesn't look so

[2:02:56] accurate in the area we're talking about. You can see how it just does the right angle turn.

[2:03:01] But they're showing the red, I think the red line is the. That's the project boundary.

[2:03:06] That's the project boundary. But the geotech defines the the edge of the cliff with as the

[2:03:15] probably the black line.

[2:03:18] There's two black lines.

[2:03:20] They almost look like the 100 foot contour line.

[2:03:25] But he's defining as he 25 foot.

[2:03:28] As he, H of the cliff.

[2:03:32] Oh, wow.

[2:03:39] And then it's got a very, you know, depending on how steep it is.

[2:03:44] Because in that area, it's really steep.

[2:03:46] But that was out there.

[2:03:47] So that's some areas. It is, yes, that's straight.

[2:03:50] That's not going to hit.

[2:03:52] Do any of these lines represent the bluff line?

[2:03:55] Uh, a bluff top line?

[2:03:59] Um, sorry.

[2:04:00] What was, any, any of these lines show the bluff top line?

[2:04:05] It might be the bottom line.

[2:04:07] Um,

[2:04:10] I don't think the red line is the...

[2:04:11] I think the closely will be that contour line about the 100,

[2:04:15] which is, I think, 10 foot increments.

[2:04:18] So that's the 110.

[2:04:18] And I think that's the closer, again, it's not exactly flat, right, but it's pretty close.

[2:04:29] So the second line with question marks on it, is the bloft up line.

[2:04:35] The end of this line, I agree with you, but I was saying,

[2:04:42] the green is the second line.

[2:04:45] The green is said, but as defined by the geotech,

[2:04:54] it looks like it's paralleling.

[2:04:57] where the shrubbery.

[2:05:00] And so right to the right of the blue lines. So we're talking where the green line meets the purple line.

[2:05:14] Yes.

[2:05:16] Could you zoom in to that area?

[2:05:22] So basically, you're asking to move the water fountain down to the edge of the area that's marked as the end of the...

[2:05:33] And it's nice too, because the two residences are not facing directly at the dream fountain.

[2:05:41] missing different directions. On page two on sheet two there's a circle with half black on the left and then a line goes down and another circle and it says match line C sheet five and eight.

[2:05:56] I think where that line intersects the path.

[2:06:00] Near the bottom.

[2:06:02] That's about where we're talking, right?

[2:06:05] Yes.

[2:06:07] Yeah, but if you go to age five, you can actually see the zoomed in.

[2:06:14] Right.

[2:06:15] It's a little bit further to the left from that passage.

[2:06:19] But the problem with five is it cuts it off.

[2:06:22] So that's why if you go to sheet two,

[2:06:28] where the heavier line is there.

[2:06:33] Let me show.

[2:06:36] See here, Christian.

[2:06:37] One more right here.

[2:06:42] didn't you have a stand-alone water fountain there before you had it

[2:06:47] well but that would be where the rocks are too right at least you had it next to the

[2:06:51] the sign there that i can't remember what that sign says shoreline preserve yeah

[2:06:56] reserve so that was right next to that now it's going to be a stand-alone

[2:07:01] right but the idea i think is if you have the boulders

[2:07:04] and then you don't have the bottle filler

[2:07:07] that it will break up the mass of it

[2:07:09] And it won't look so high because the neighbors were very unhappy that next to that sign,

[2:07:14] then you have this other thing that's 49 inches wide and 55 inches tall.

[2:07:20] As long as it's, you know, in from the road a little bit because at least over by the

[2:07:24] Avenue and Merrill it was, you know, if you're walking a dog or whatever, there's an idea

[2:07:30] of safety there because there's concrete.

[2:07:32] Now if you move it over where the boulders are, where it's just boulders, it has to be behind

[2:07:36] the boulders so you're not out on the street.

[2:07:38] Right, so see in the right there where you thought it,

[2:07:42] yeah, right in that area there.

[2:07:44] That's, yes.

[2:07:47] Where that joins.

[2:07:48] And that way, it's safe because you're not on top of everything,

[2:07:53] but you're also breaking up the mass.

[2:07:56] And that way, both paths have access to it rather than people

[2:07:59] making a new path right up the middle.

[2:08:06] So we just need to describe that as a condition.

[2:08:08] Putting it like right in that where the,

[2:08:10] Where the cursor is in the middle and right where the two paths go this way. Okay, yeah, and they have some what do you guys calm trail

[2:08:19] Markers right there. Yes, I wanted to show this because this one kind of shows the predominant

[2:08:25] Establish trail, right? This is from just Google or helps

[2:08:30] Okay, do we have an accurate description of that space as part of this condition? That's the tough part

[2:08:38] I put relocate the water fountain structure, keeping it nearby Paseo-Domar and Avenue and Marola

[2:08:45] where the two trails meet at the southern point as shown at edge line of planting area

[2:08:50] to on full map next to the native trail markers.

[2:08:55] Inside the two trails.

[2:08:57] That's important.

[2:08:58] In the triangle area.

[2:08:59] Yeah.

[2:09:00] Does that make sense?

[2:09:01] As long as it was sent into the microphone,

[2:09:03] Cheryl could transcribe that.

[2:09:07] I hate to move a sheet against myself,

[2:09:10] but I'm going to ask a question.

[2:09:13] I appreciate the effort made,

[2:09:15] and I think that this is near the street.

[2:09:19] My intention is to work and try to get the plane

[2:09:21] off to agree to do it, not so near the street,

[2:09:24] in more than middle of the bluff top.

[2:09:27] I don't really want to go through the exercise

[2:09:28] of trying to find that, but if I'm successful there, with the planning commission we come to

[2:09:33] with that, something that's stuck from the street on there somewhere else, it would be more

[2:09:40] not there. Yeah, more in the middle over there that's in an area that has, it's kind of set back

[2:09:46] from the street and it's not something that people are seeing up against the street, it's more

[2:09:50] than the middle of the bluff type area we can mask it with rocks. I'd like to take a shot at that

[2:09:55] less than panic commission is insistent on going for the location that they just went for.

[2:10:00] That would be the standard location, and my suggestion is to allow me to, because that, in based on my meetings with residents out there today, they had concerns about everything on this side, so we moved it more to the middle of the bluff topic.

[2:10:13] As always, with the cursor, where are you?

[2:10:15] Yeah, exactly.

[2:10:16] Near the storm drain, is that what you're saying?

[2:10:18] Well, it would be probably,

[2:10:28] I don't know, control, yep, stop right there, go to your left.

[2:10:31] Yeah, right around in that area, if possible, if they will go for it, that seems to mitigate a lot of the concerns that we've heard from a lot of different people.

[2:10:43] But I appreciate you finding an location that's near our street that's low in the settlement.

[2:10:50] Oh, we could condition what I said, or if you can figure out how to say those words.

[2:10:57] I would approve that.

[2:10:59] What's Oscar? What's the street or it is south of the storm drain all it south of the storm drain?

[2:11:05] Is that Bindini north of the storm drain north of the sort of the south at Bindini?

[2:11:11] Yeah, I think we know that's right. So that would that would leave it a lot of the other

[2:11:16] Certains that we weren't as a preview because we we're not allowed to hear from the people anymore, but I'll share that that's my hurt

[2:11:21] So if you can addition of both ways

[2:11:24] that we're moving it even more north. If we can't, if we can't, if we can't, if the coastal, if the

[2:11:31] plant is in the coastal, if that's something coastal, have a strong opinion about. I don't think

[2:11:39] you're suggesting that the residents prefer that, that could be our option. This is a, this is a,

[2:11:46] I'm just going to do what I'm going to do.

[2:11:48] Michael's.

[2:11:49] Yeah.

[2:11:49] And or gives you either.

[2:11:50] Yeah.

[2:11:51] Yeah.

[2:11:53] So some residents of the storm drain.

[2:11:59] Outlet.

[2:12:00] Outfall.

[2:12:01] Water outfall.

[2:12:05] OK.

[2:12:05] I think we have everything.

[2:12:07] Did we any last call for topics that were brought up?

[2:12:09] That we haven't.

[2:12:10] Just to clarify, are we no longer locating the water station near?

[2:12:17] What is it, Passail Del Mar?

[2:12:20] Avenue, a mural.

[2:12:21] Okay, so our first option is near there.

[2:12:24] It's a new near.

[2:12:26] Yeah, but it is near.

[2:12:27] It's within one house of it.

[2:12:29] Okay.

[2:12:30] So that's near.

[2:12:31] Or it can be this other location.

[2:12:34] If he gets the permission from the.

[2:12:37] It's from your.

[2:12:38] Yeah.

[2:12:38] The plaintiffs, right?

[2:12:40] So the condition you're adding is a alternative locations.

[2:12:44] Two options.

[2:12:46] one's near and one's a little more less near.

[2:12:48] If the plaintiffs say no, then that's not happening.

[2:12:53] Right.

[2:12:54] Okay, I think we can roll through this.

[2:12:56] I always like to look over at Vice Chair Nendick.

[2:12:59] She takes the best notes here.

[2:13:01] Would you like to take a stab at a motion with the conditions that we've discussed?

[2:13:09] Or should we, Commissioner Kashi, are you in a good spot?

[2:13:12] Do you have any other comments to add?

[2:13:16] Okay, but there's one other thing to ask people to question I guess we did kind of talk about it with the city attorney

[2:13:25] So the neighbors are saying asking can we put a

[2:13:30] Use it your own risk sign

[2:13:32] For this at the South Trail is that something reasonable to do or not

[2:13:38] But that's why I'm asking that city attorney

[2:13:41] Yeah. No, we just want to leave the signs as they are. Okay. Perfect.

[2:13:45] Classable. Okay. So do you have anything?

[2:13:53] So why don't I read through the conditions before we're saying we're making our vote.

[2:13:58] You can tell me if I have something wrong.

[2:14:00] Okay. Does that make sense?

[2:14:01] But I think you need to start it with the motion language, right?

[2:14:04] No, but I'm saying let's not do that. This is a practice.

[2:14:07] You're going to have to repeat it. Okay.

[2:14:09] We could, we could, you know how many times we switch things?

[2:14:13] I think you can just go for it.

[2:14:15] Just make the motion and then read the conditions.

[2:14:18] We will revise as we go.

[2:14:20] Oh, wait, I need to change, right?

[2:14:22] Because I had to relocate the rock benches,

[2:14:24] but if, I don't, we don't have to put that if we say,

[2:14:33] okay, look.

[2:14:34] I can make it suggest.

[2:14:36] Here's what I heard.

[2:14:36] Let's see if I got it right.

[2:14:39] Apply with the geotechnical report specifically on the 25-foot setback.

[2:14:46] No plans to grow over four feet.

[2:14:52] I'm going to come back to this one.

[2:14:54] Remove the water ball or a fill station feature or the top of the thing.

[2:15:00] We can condition it at brown, if you'd like,

[2:15:04] and all rocks need to be pv stone, and the final one is the

[2:15:15] relocation of the water fountain to the north of the storm drain, and if not to the,

[2:15:28] I don't know how you guys

[2:15:29] fall back. And so my only, I, I, I, I, I hear that. And I have the condition.

[2:15:38] That's the one I skipped. I have the condition. But I'm just going to, like I said,

[2:15:43] hate, hate negotiating against myself. I'm, I'm a little bit concerned about this

[2:15:49] and, and you can condition it. Staff needs to inquire on cost associated with hand watering

[2:15:56] and water and trucks and all those types of things, we fully intend to do that, should it be

[2:16:01] something that costs the city more money than that will be something that the city council will

[2:16:06] have to deal with. You can condition it. We can condition it and they can change the condition

[2:16:10] when it goes before them. Yeah, but it can't go before them until September, right?

[2:16:16] And it is, and what is a dice you want? But we're not coming back to the council's

[2:16:20] September 8, we'll do our best to get those costs. I hear everyone's concerns about this,

[2:16:26] but I just needed to say, you can get this in it,

[2:16:29] but I just don't know where it's gonna end up.

[2:16:30] I don't see any other areas being of concern.

[2:16:33] Just don't know if this irrigation thing

[2:16:34] is kind of thrown us for a little bit.

[2:16:35] In your list, there is also the note saying,

[2:16:39] comply with City Geologist Recommendation.

[2:16:41] Yes or what?

[2:16:41] I was afraid to say, all right.

[2:16:43] So, does that help summarize?

[2:16:47] And to make it easier, yes to make it clear,

[2:16:50] that's option one and two, if that's not what we're thinking, right?

[2:16:54] Yeah, and so we can include this in our minutes.

[2:17:13] I'd like to move to adopt resolution number PCR-2026-021 to approve the project with the additional conditions.

[2:17:27] When plans must call out the 25 foot set back and all improvements must respect the geologists report recommendation

[2:17:34] to

[2:17:38] all rock seat benches must be made from locally-sourced PV stone selected by the city

[2:17:44] from existing city on rock.

[2:17:47] That's what plans I have.

[2:17:52] Three,

[2:17:55] no plant species shall be planted that.

[2:17:58] Per garden guides, execlipides are other plant reference sources exceed a mature height

[2:18:03] of

[2:18:06] four feet.

[2:18:11] The city must, for the city must maintain all proposed vegetation below a maximum height of four feet and adhere to an enforcement protocol available to the public.

[2:18:26] Can you clarify that last, what's the enforcement protocol?

[2:18:30] Well, there already is a enforcement protocol.

[2:18:32] I think there's an enforcement protocol that the parklands, the parklands and Carl follow for enforcing no.

[2:18:43] I think so.

[2:18:44] Okay.

[2:18:45] City has the website that you can submit an issue, right, that you say, hey, right.

[2:18:50] I mean, we have an enforcement protocol for, you know, site distance and that kind

[2:18:55] of stuff.

[2:18:56] Not for views.

[2:18:57] Cheryl, how would you recommend they say?

[2:18:59] But you already said they have to maintain this for ten years.

[2:19:01] Probably the last part of the sentence.

[2:19:03] And I think we're fine.

[2:19:04] It's already part of the agreement that they have to maintain all the information.

[2:19:06] It's important for ten years.

[2:19:08] I would drop the end.

[2:19:10] And it's going to be the applicant's going to be required to maintain it and can comply with the condition of the applicant in this city.

[2:19:17] Okay. So it's applicant must maintain, I'll propose vegetation below maximum height of four feet.

[2:19:26] All right.

[2:19:27] Okay.

[2:19:30] Relocate the water fountain structure.

[2:19:33] Keeping it nearby.

[2:19:34] I say O'Dell Maran, Avenue de Marola, where the two trails meet at the southern point as

[2:19:39] shown at the edge line of planting area, too, on the full map sheet next to the native

[2:19:45] trail markers.

[2:19:49] Or

[2:19:52] north.

[2:19:54] Does it need to say make best efforts, too?

[2:19:59] Do those things?

[2:20:00] I don't think you can guarantee that right now, right? So, can it say make best efforts to relocate?

[2:20:06] I think that would be a much better condition because we cannot guarantee what plaintiff's council or the

[2:20:11] co-commission or any of the stakeholders involved can commit to or agree to.

[2:20:16] Just start it with make best effort, too.

[2:20:20] I would have it, I have to.

[2:20:26] Well, your opinion, but if you can't do it, and we hold up the whole, we go back to litigation

[2:20:35] or go back on the settlement, correct, if they won't agree to it.

[2:20:38] There is a risk that the will be rejected and considered violation of the settlement agreement.

[2:20:47] But we're keeping it near, that's a whole point of keeping it nearby, or the other option

[2:20:54] I believe the plaintiff's council, coastal commission, all looked at the locations and

[2:21:02] everybody agreed to the plans as proposed to the commission.

[2:21:07] So if we change that too much, then we run into a big issue.

[2:21:14] If you're reading the entire thing, I would change instead of respecting the geologist's

[2:21:22] recommendation.

[2:21:23] I would say compartment.

[2:21:26] This is why I said let's read and read it.

[2:21:28] I have to do the whole thing.

[2:21:30] Am I doing the whole thing over again?

[2:21:33] Read the conditions into that record place.

[2:21:40] From the beginning.

[2:21:44] Let's start with condition number one.

[2:21:50] Number one, Plans must call out the 25-foot set back, and all improvements must

[2:21:59] comply.

[2:22:00] Come by with the Geologists Report recommendation to all rock seat benches must be made from locally,

[2:22:09] source PV stones selected by the city from existing city on rock.

[2:22:15] Three, no plant species shall be planted that per garden books,

[2:22:20] Encyclopedias or other plant reference sources exceed a mature height of four feet maximum

[2:22:28] For the applicant must maintain all proposed vegetation below maximum height of four feet

[2:22:43] Five

[2:22:43] You were on a roll to keep going

[2:22:47] But I just said that you'll make best efforts make best efforts

[2:22:53] I know it's not ideal but it I think in good

[2:22:57] faith, they really want to move to the water fountain, structure, keeping it nearby to say

[2:23:07] Odomar and Avonita, Marola, where the two trails meet at the southern point as shown

[2:23:12] an edge line of planting area to on full map next to the native trail markers,

[2:23:22] the south

[2:23:22] east edge also shown on sheet 8. Helping maintain a more natural looking field of the

[2:23:33] near V of Andy.

[2:23:36] Near.

[2:23:38] V is.

[2:23:39] We're all.

[2:23:40] Yes.

[2:23:43] Okay.

[2:23:43] Maybe not.

[2:23:44] Forget the.

[2:23:46] Yeah.

[2:23:49] Six.

[2:23:50] The drinking station shall consist of a drinking fountain for people and dogs as required by

[2:23:56] agreement.

[2:23:56] Exhibit one.

[2:23:57] No bottle refilling station shall be included.

[2:24:01] Which would further impact views of the scenic coastline.

[2:24:04] And detracts from the natural looking field of the bluff top area.

[2:24:30] Seven.

[2:24:31] Remove the watering system is shown on sheet five, including the main line and

[2:24:35] laterals.

[2:24:36] Circuit control valve, bubbler nozzles, on-grade lateral pipes, and anchorings, et cetera.

[2:24:43] Eight.

[2:24:44] Require a watering service to water plants with watering trucks throughout the plant

[2:24:49] establishment period.

[2:24:52] Nine.

[2:24:52] can we go back on it and investigate the costs first? Yeah, but that was that's after

[2:25:00] That's after today for the Council to decide.

[2:25:06] But I think it's implanted because I have to maintain the vegetation for 10 years, so I think...

[2:25:10] Right, and if they do it, and the city council chains that remove that condition.

[2:25:18] Nine relocate the waterline connection from the existing six-foot water main to line up with a new location of the water fountain if approved.

[2:25:33] Okay, so I'm good, do we have a second?

[2:25:37] Second?

[2:25:37] All right, second from Commissioner Cowson, all in favor.

[2:25:40] Hi.

[2:25:41] Opposed?

[2:25:42] Motion carries 5-0.

[2:25:45] Thank you all, everyone, for staying late, and for all your input.

[2:25:48] Do we have any other announcements before we close the meetings?

[2:25:54] Thank you, City staff.

[2:25:55] Instead of turning, appreciate all your help.

[2:25:57] I'm letting it go.

[2:25:58] I'm meeting adjourned at 6, 24 p.m.

Planning Commission Special Meeting

Agenda

Transcript