[0:47] >> I'll call this meeting to order.

[0:49] ms. Fasone, please call roll.

[0:50] >> council member coburn?

[0:51] >> yes.

[0:52] >> councilman register?

[0:54] >> yes, ma'am.

[0:55] >> vice mayor jarman?

[0:56] >> yes.

[0:57] >> council member casto?

[0:58] >> yes.

[0:59] >> mayor tettemer?

[1:00] >> first up is a presentation on

[1:03] the beach flag system by chief morgan.

[1:06] did we get the projector working?

[1:09] last minute I.t. Work, good job.

[1:11] >> mayor, council, I'm going to

[1:13] let director paul do the presentation

[1:16] today since this is his expertise and

[1:19] division.

[1:20] >> I appreciate the opportunity to

[1:21] engage with you on how to make our

[1:23] beaches safer, so with that, I'll

[1:25] turn it over to director paul.

[1:27] >> director paul?

[1:29] >> mayor, council, good the afternoon.

[1:32] so, my name's [inaudible] paul, city

[1:36] of panama beach fire rescue.

[1:37] I've been a lifeguard for over a

[1:41] decade, a fireman for a little longer,

[1:49] just rolling through the slide.

[1:56] there we go.

[2:01] so, my process of how I judge how

[2:05] hazardous the rip currents are every

[2:06] day is that every morning, I visit the

[2:08] shore line, I drive up and down the

[2:10] beach every morning from monday to

[2:14] monday every day.

[2:17] I visit various beaches, depending on

[2:20] the conditions, the wind and what the

[2:23] direction of the swell, how

[2:25] everything's coming in, our tide

[2:26] shift, I check out various spots.

[2:27] our flag system is a standardized

[2:41] system.

[2:42] it's created by the international

[2:44] lifesaving federation and then the

[2:45] united states lifesaving association

[2:47] which is the governing body for open

[2:51] water lifeguard adopted that system.

[2:53] and they include it into our training

[2:57] for our water open lifeguards.

[2:59] the first flag is a yellow flag, a

[3:02] medium hazard, this pertains to rip

[3:04] currents, we base our flags off of rip

[3:07] current, not so much wave action.

[3:09] single red flag means it's a high rip

[3:12] hazard, double red means the water's

[3:14] closed to the public.

[3:17] purple is marine pests such as jelly

[3:19] fish.

[3:20] all of this is directed all of the

[3:24] life safety federation's website for

[3:26] how they define the flags and their

[3:28] use, and also the pictures how they're

[3:31] depicted, the double red with a single

[3:34] red and a flag depicted beneath that.

[3:45] green flags is their statement on

[3:47] green flags.

[3:48] in some areas of the u.s., green flags

[3:51] are flown the indicate calm or mild

[3:54] conditions.

[3:55] international lifesaving federation

[3:56] considered this carefully and decided

[3:57] not to adopt the green flag.

[3:59] the primary reason is the fact that

[4:01] wills always a potential hazard

[4:04] present and that the view that it is

[4:08] best to notify people when conditions

[4:11] are unusually changing, rather than

[4:13] suggest they are ever completely safe.

[4:18] rip currents can form anywhere at any

[4:20] time and that has a lot to do with our

[4:23] sand, our sand is real fine and loose,

[4:29] as waste buildup and hit sand bar, it

[4:33] creates deep spots, and the picture on

[4:35] the left here, you see a green flag

[4:37] flying and you see pretty calm

[4:40] conditions.

[4:41] what most people would generally call

[4:43] a green flag day.

[4:44] on the picture to your right, you have

[4:48] pretty much mirrored the same

[4:50] conditions here, you have a shallow

[4:52] sand bar, a deep spot and then a

[4:55] shallow sand bar on the other side,

[4:56] you can see those with waves breaking

[4:59] across the sand bar.

[5:01] just to assess rip current wills

[5:03] always be present and there's always a

[5:06] hazard, this picture was taken

[5:07] immediately after our crews entered

[5:08] the water and rescued a ten year-old

[5:10] boy so, they made a rescue and a

[5:15] concerning note about this picture,

[5:17] even though our crews entered the

[5:18] water, made the rescue, people still

[5:19] walked right by us and got back into

[5:22] the rip current.

[5:23] so, this is our guideline on yellow

[5:28] flags, I mean, I'm sorry, on the flag

[5:30] system about how we work it every

[5:33] morning and it's guideline.

[5:36] we can move around with it the best we

[5:39] can and we always try to fly to the

[5:43] highest hazard in the beach.

[5:44] every morning I collaborate with my

[5:57] counterpart at the sheriff's office,

[5:58] they have a surf patrol that works the

[6:01] far end of the county on the east and

[6:04] west and I call him every morning and

[6:06] we talk about conditions, the weather,

[6:09] we talk about the tide, what the

[6:11] tide's doing.

[6:12] we talk about staffing in case we need

[6:15] like mutual aid resources requested,

[6:18] things like that.

[6:19] him and I work together on the best

[6:21] flag call for the entire island.

[6:29] our coverage, we staff lifeguards that

[6:31] fill city pier at private partnership

[6:34] from april 1 to september 31, we have

[6:38] roving patrols spanning 9.6 miles.

[6:42] in 2023, our lifeguards were able to

[6:47] complete 237 rescues, 2542 public

[6:51] assists, a public assists where the

[6:54] lifeguard proactively entered the

[6:56] water and prevented a rescue from

[6:59] happening, so prevented the emergency

[7:00] in the first place.

[7:02] the preventative actions, 172 thousand

[7:04] 51, that's where the lifeguard noticed

[7:06] somebody was setting up their beach,

[7:08] like their beach towel or their tent

[7:15] umbrella in front of a rip or walking

[7:16] towards a rip and he decided to

[7:17] proactively grab those people and

[7:18] moved them to a safer place to be.

[7:23] 37 medicals and 6073 calls for service.

[7:27] every morning I'm checking the weather

[7:30] forecast, checking the surf forecast.

[7:32] I always check the tide charts and I

[7:35] collaborate with noaa, the

[7:38] national weather service, and I

[7:39] utilize the noaa's five day rip

[7:48] current, noaa always putting out --

[7:50] they're gauging their data off of

[7:53] buoys and whether to kind of forecast

[7:56] the rip currents in your area, so I

[7:59] always take that into account.

[8:01] I take the tide charts into account,

[8:05] the winds,, but still every morning

[8:06] you have to go down to the shore line

[8:08] and put eyes to it.

[8:10] our lifeguards every morning get to

[8:12] the city pier, sometimes we go to the

[8:14] other parts of the water to get into

[8:17] the water and have a physical test in

[8:19] the rip currents, we try to see how

[8:23] strong they're pulling at that time of

[8:24] day and we try to gauge where we'll be

[8:26] closer to the end of the day.

[8:31] this is a multiagency collaborative

[8:33] effort here, we all work together,

[8:37] panama city beach fire rescue beach

[8:40] safety, bay county sheriff's office,

[8:42] bay county emergency services from

[8:45] orange beach, gulf shores alabama all

[8:48] the way to us is the emerald coast, we

[8:52] talk together about if there's a major

[8:54] storm or something in the gulf moving

[8:56] in, we try to collaborate our efforts

[8:58] together, work together.

[9:01] noaa, national weather service and bay

[9:03] county emergency services.

[9:04] how we notify the community is the

[9:07] major thing is alert bay.

[9:09] we post our flag conditions which will

[9:12] retain more to what our rip currents

[9:14] are doing on the day at our website,

[9:18] social media and local news media.

[9:21] alert bay has really proven to be the

[9:24] greatest asset tool for communication

[9:26] to the community but it requires

[9:28] people to subscribe to the text abert.

[9:32] if you subscribe to the test alert,

[9:36] text pcb flags to 888777, every

[9:39] morning you'll get a text alert to our

[9:42] flag system and what it's doing for the

[9:44] day.

[9:45] a little bit about rip currents is

[9:47] that how they work here, you've got

[9:52] two shallow sand bases and you'll have

[9:55] a deep spot, as waves spill over on to

[9:59] the sand bank, it moves the sand away

[10:02] creating that.

[10:04] as waves wash into store, the water

[10:06] washing up to the shore line and

[10:08] recedes back into the sea, it's going

[10:10] the focus on that deep spot.

[10:13] you have to watch your tide shift,

[10:16] anything over a foot drives concern

[10:18] for me, as your tide shifts down

[10:20] throughout the day, if you're at high

[10:23] tide and gauge your currents in the

[10:25] morning, you have this less space

[10:28] across the shallow sand bar but still

[10:31] have the same amount of volume coming

[10:33] in, so your rip currents are going to

[10:35] get stronger throughout the day and

[10:37] like I said, rip currents can form

[10:40] anywhere at any time.

[10:43] so, that's all I have for that.

[10:45] do you have questions for me?

[10:46] >> director paul, how often does a

[10:49] flag change during the day?

[10:51] >> right, so we always try to flag to

[10:53] the highest hazard in the area, so say

[10:56] like more over to the beach, it may be

[10:59] yellow flag conditions but over here

[11:01] we may have developed rip currents, we

[11:02] try to flag to that, you may have a

[11:05] single red so we'll flag uniformity

[11:09] and consistency, we'll flag the same

[11:11] flag across the 18 miles of beach for

[11:14] the whole island.

[11:15] when we fly a flag and for me, if we

[11:20] start getting a few water rescue calls

[11:23] and they're consistent and pretty

[11:25] close together, that's telling me that

[11:27] the rip currents are now a little more

[11:31] developed and the conditions that are

[11:34] present are beyond the capabilities of

[11:37] the individuals on the shore and the

[11:38] people in the water, so in order to

[11:42] prevent a drowning, prevent an

[11:46] incident and prevent anything bad from

[11:48] happening for our first responders,

[11:51] we'll put up double reds.

[11:52] >> okay.

[11:53] so, you know how frequent because I

[11:56] noticed that's been happening a decent

[11:58] amount recently.

[11:59] >> I don't have a number for you how

[12:01] frequent it is.

[12:02] >> it was a surprise question.

[12:04] >> you always have -- I'm always

[12:06] looking out for that in case we do

[12:08] need to upgrade.

[12:10] >> one other question, do you think we

[12:13] should change our warning signage if

[12:15] we're never going to fly a

[12:17] green flag?

[12:18] >> I think our information needs to be

[12:21] consistent.

[12:22] the information that the's along the

[12:24] boardwalks and anything that's posted

[12:26] is very important to me.

[12:27] I think it all should be consistent

[12:29] even how we fly the flags.

[12:32] when you fly a double red flag, you

[12:34] should have a sign red with something

[12:37] beneath it, we shouldn't mix the two,

[12:39] it needs to stay consistent.

[12:41] >> questions from council?

[12:42] >> yeah, I want to clarify one thing

[12:44] with the alert bay warnings, isn't

[12:47] there a geofence when you go to double

[12:49] red that you're not required to be

[12:51] signed up for alert bay to get that

[12:53] alert?

[12:54] >> I believe they do have a geofence

[12:57] capability but I'm not in charge of

[12:58] that.

[12:59] >> are we utilizing that?

[13:00] I believe we are.

[13:01] I have seen a lot of my guests and I

[13:04] would assume at the hotel that are

[13:07] getting that alert around the pool

[13:10] deck, they're inside of that geofenced

[13:13] area, does anybody have an answer for

[13:14] that?

[13:15] >> tdc sends that out for the

[13:18] geofencing, if you're in that area,

[13:19] you will get that alert.

[13:20] >> whether you're flying a flag in the

[13:24] morning, you're taking into account

[13:25] the coastal sea breeze pick-up in the

[13:27] afternoon that we always are

[13:29] accustomed to?

[13:30] >> I always try to, I try to make the

[13:32] educated flag call for the information

[13:34] that's presented to me at the time

[13:39] which is a weather forecast, I take

[13:40] that with a grain of salt and then

[13:41] what I see in front of me in the

[13:42] moment.

[13:43] >> it's time consuming for you guys to

[13:46] change how many flags do we have

[13:48] inside the city limit, flag poles?

[13:50] >> the city of panama city beach

[13:52] has 28, we change 26.

[13:55] there's a few at the county pier that

[13:58] the county guards take care of, so we

[14:01] take care of 26 flag poles.

[14:03] >> how long do you say it would take

[14:05] your team to change those and upgrade

[14:08] those?

[14:10] >> about 45 minutes.

[14:11] >> okay.

[14:13] 45 minutes is a long time when rip

[14:16] currents develop, alright, fantastic,

[14:18] thank you, I appreciate everything you

[14:19] do, thank you.

[14:20] >> thank you.

[14:36] >> is there a possible rip current in

[14:38] this area, I wouldn't want to say

[14:41] affirmative?

[14:42] >> the flag system the great secondary

[14:44] tool utilized by the lifeguard and

[14:47] lifeguards use local swim flags to

[14:49] mark rip currents, it's like a no

[14:55] swimmer flag, we'll go to one side of

[14:56] the rip, post it, go to the other side

[14:57] and post it.

[14:58] as we're doing our preventative

[15:00] actions, we'll point to that area and

[15:01] say no swimming between those two

[15:03] flags. Sh

[15:06] >> we're doing that now?

[15:07] >> at guarded beaches.

[15:08] if you start carrying out these flags,

[15:09] they could be costly, as you stake

[15:10] them and put them down, they end up

[15:13] being stolen, they turn into great

[15:16] souvenirs, and each flag is about 100

[15:22] bucks, each flag.

[15:23] >> thank you.

[15:25] >> do you see rips form more prevalent

[15:32] during a certain time of the year?

[15:33] it's constant?

[15:37] >> yeah, rip currents can form

[15:43] anywhere at any time and it's all

[15:47] dependent on the conditions that are

[15:48] leading up to that day and in our area

[15:53] along the emerald coast, our rip

[15:55] currents can linger.

[15:58] that we'll fly a few days of double

[16:00] red flags, the first day will be

[16:02] pretty rough, as the conditions are ce

[16:04] receding and calming down, we'll keep

[16:07] our double reds up and then even

[16:10] slowly downgraded to a single rip and

[16:13] then from there because our rip

[16:16] currents will linger and the hazard

[16:18] that -- the issue that's really

[16:20] prevalent is that when people visit

[16:23] our shore line, they'll see the surf,

[16:25] it looks really calm, it looses very

[16:28] inviting, it's clear blue skies and

[16:30] looks really nice but the rip currents

[16:32] are still wringing.

[16:33] you really only need about three to

[16:35] five mile an hour winds coming out of

[16:38] the south, southwest, southeast to

[16:40] really power a rip current.

[16:42] our rip currents are formed by wave

[16:44] action that obverses sand away out of

[16:47] the shallow sand bars and make deep

[16:48] spots but as the wind pushes the

[16:51] waves, as the winds creates these

[16:52] waves and pushes the water up to

[16:55] the shore line, it recedes back out so

[16:58] your rip currents will always be

[17:01] working, they do work off of a time

[17:04] interval, so your rip currents are

[17:05] always going to be working until the

[17:07] wind dies or shifts.

[17:09] >> makes sense.

[17:10] >> you see less rip currents with a

[17:14] north wind than you would a wind up

[17:16] coming out of the south pushing water

[17:18] up on to the beach?

[17:19] >> so, the north wind will shift from

[17:23] the north and lay the surf down and it

[17:25] will look flat on that green flag day,

[17:28] you would probably have a north wind

[17:32] that makes the water look that flat

[17:34] but this's still a little bit of a --

[17:37] you can't notice it, there's still

[17:39] a swell, there's water still moving,

[17:42] there's still currents moving, so even

[17:45] then on a north wind day, your rip

[17:47] currents will still work and on those

[17:49] days, the calmer days are the ones we

[17:54] typically get most of our rescues.

[17:58] >> the north wind is lying down the

[18:01] first 500 yards of the beach that we

[18:03] can see, and most of our north winds

[18:05] are seasonally doing the wintertime.

[18:08] >> we'll get north winds even in the

[18:11] summer in the morning and as the

[18:13] temperature over the land and over the

[18:16] sea changes, it will shift back on to

[18:18] land, you will have a sea breeze.

[18:19] >> okay.

[18:23] >> darryl, just so the public will

[18:25] know and I think most of you do know

[18:28] this, but we have three public places

[18:32] on the beach where lifeguards are

[18:34] provided the city pier, the county

[18:39] pier and rick seltzer park and there's

[18:43] other privateer resorts here, holiday

[18:47] inn and boardwalks participating in

[18:53] our public/private partnership.

[18:55] is that correct?

[18:56] is that the only -- I don't think

[18:59] state park provides lifeguards either,

[19:01] do they?

[19:02] >> the city of panama beach staffs

[19:05] lifeguards at the pier, we have a

[19:10] private partnership with broad walk

[19:12] that goes from april to september.

[19:14] the county does staff lifeguards at

[19:17] the county pier and at the rick

[19:21] seltzer park.

[19:22] >> so, you use your rovers to cover

[19:24] the areas in between those on four

[19:27] wheelers and how many guards do you

[19:30] currently have?

[19:31] >> right, so on patrol, I don't

[19:34] consider any of those roving patrol on

[19:38] a guarded beach, you can't --

[19:40] >> it takes too long to get to them.

[19:43] >> we have nine full time lifeguards,

[19:46] that includes myself and six seasonal.

[19:48] >> in your opinion, do you have enough

[19:51] lifeguards to do your job effectively?

[19:59] >> no, he doesn't.

[20:02] >> what was that?

[20:03] >> no, you don't.

[20:06] >> I'm not trying to put you on the

[20:08] spot.

[20:09] have you guys done a plan, I was

[20:12] talking to ben with the tdc and he

[20:15] suggested the city and the county do a

[20:18] plan to let him know and the tdc is

[20:24] contributing some more money, a couple

[20:26] of these guys up here sit on that

[20:29] board and they are going to give us

[20:31] some more money for lifeguards but he

[20:34] did mention a plan, so he would know

[20:36] what you guys being the professionals

[20:39] are recommending, that he would be

[20:40] able to provide all of them one year

[20:42] but maybe that's a goal that we could

[20:47] reach.

[20:48] has there been a plan done that you're

[20:49] aware of recently, I know back in the

[20:50] day, they did one and they didn't go

[20:54] through with it, it was too expensive

[20:57] to provide.

[20:59] it was tourists mostly that were

[21:01] drowning and the council at the time

[21:02] didn't feel like it was fair to tax

[21:06] with an ad valorem tax the local

[21:09] people that are not drowning, it's --

[21:12] from the data that I saw that you guys

[21:17] collected, it's 90% tourists that are

[21:19] drowning, it's not local people.

[21:21] >> sure, with our transient

[21:23] population, the real burden upon the

[21:25] lifeguard is we're preventative in

[21:27] nature, we're proactive.

[21:30] we don't -- we try to prevent

[21:32] the rescue or the emergency from

[21:33] happening in the first place so we're

[21:35] trying to talk to as many people as we

[21:39] can, 2023, we talked to 1.1 million,

[21:44] with a staff -- at that time, it was 8

[21:47] including me, we talked to a lot of

[21:50] people.

[21:51] there are various plans that could work

[21:52] for the city, different methods,

[21:56] different tactics, we don't have to

[21:58] reinvent the wheel I believe but,

[22:03] yeah, and the presence of a trained

[22:07] lifeguard, you have a one in 18

[22:09] million chance of drowning in front of

[22:12] a properly trained united states

[22:15] lifesaving association accredited

[22:16] lifeguard.

[22:17] >> how many feet apart do they

[22:21] recommend the lifeguards?

[22:23] >> the industry standard is every 8th

[22:25] of a mile, but even with that industry

[22:29] standard, that's not set by osha,

[22:31] that's not sent my nfpa, that's what

[22:35] all the other united states life

[22:39] association accredited agencies, we

[22:40] all collaborate together across the

[22:42] country and we talk about our staffing

[22:43] and that is just the number that we

[22:46] found works.

[22:48] a lifeguard every 8th of a mile.

[22:50] for our shore line, we can implore

[22:52] different tactics and we can implore

[22:57] maybe a wider spacing that could work

[22:59] for us.

[23:00] even the agencies that try to meet

[23:02] that standard can't maintain that

[23:04] standard of a lifeguard every 8th of a

[23:06] mile.

[23:08] >> maybe you may know, do we have a

[23:13] plan, an updated plan that we could

[23:15] get to dan or you could direct staff

[23:18] to try to take the old one and dust it

[23:22] off and we have a lot more people here

[23:25] now.

[23:26] maybe we need more, but he did ask for

[23:27] a plan today when I was talking to

[23:29] him, so maybe we can try to get him

[23:33] one.

[23:34] I'm asking why too many questions.

[23:35] >> I think that's worth discussing in

[23:38] a little bit.

[23:41] director paul, can you talk about the

[23:42] importance of a lifeguard beach versus

[23:45] the roving patrols you're doing now

[23:46] and what the difference is, the way

[23:52] the lifeguards act at a lifeguard

[23:55] beach versus roving patrols?

[23:56] >> sure, like I said before, the very

[23:59] nature of a lifeguard is to be

[24:02] proactive and preventative, to first

[24:03] make contact with individuals

[24:05] visioning the beach, being that person

[24:09] on the sand with the community

[24:11] outreach that's going to warn you of a

[24:13] rip current, educate you on what a rip

[24:15] current is.

[24:17] tell you where the safe place to swim

[24:19] is.

[24:20] as far as roving patrol, our

[24:25] lifeguards, when staffing permits,

[24:26] we have one roving patrol for

[24:28] the entire city proper.

[24:32] that puts a lot of work on that one

[24:35] lifeguard to make a lot of public

[24:37] contacts and a lot of preventative

[24:39] actions and like I said, rip currents

[24:41] could form anywhere at any time and if

[24:45] you google image our shore line a lot,

[24:47] you'll see rips, rips, rips, so that

[24:49] makes up for a tough day.

[24:53] I'm sorry, what was the rest of your

[24:56] question.

[24:57] what's the difference.

[24:58] >> yeah.

[24:59] >> long story short, I can talk to you

[25:01] all day about that.

[25:02] the lifeguards --

[25:03] >> we have about ten minutes.

[25:05] >> the lifeguard's going to be there

[25:06] to be proactive, not like a reactive

[25:09] service, we're very proactive.

[25:13] you shouldn't see rescues at a

[25:15] lifeguard beach, you should only see

[25:19] public assistance.

[25:21] >> lifeguards at beaches is a

[25:23] different animal than the roving

[25:25] patrols we have now, the roving

[25:27] patrols seem like a bandage, I

[25:30] don't want to put words in your mouth,

[25:32] we're doing what we can with them.

[25:34] I've seen a patrol go by, tell someone

[25:38] to get out of the water, do some

[25:40] education, as soon as they leave,

[25:41] they're back in.

[25:42] >> yes.

[25:45] that's currently our struggle.

[25:46] >> yeah.

[25:47] >> every day.

[25:48] >> are there any hot spots or any

[25:51] places on the beach that have a decent

[25:54] amount more population than others

[25:56] that would maybe make good options for

[26:00] additional lifeguard beaches?

[26:01] >> yes.

[26:03] I've printed out a heat map off of our

[26:06] analytics software through watchtower,

[26:08] it's a great software, it's tailored

[26:11] made specifically for lifeguards and

[26:13] it uploads all your stats to the usla

[26:15] it's great and it prints you out a

[26:18] heat map on everything you do, but I

[26:21] printed that out, it was pretty much

[26:22] the whole shore line was red.

[26:27] we're everywhere, yeah.

[26:28] >> okay.

[26:29] and then one more before I toss it off.

[26:34] if I am correct in understanding our

[26:36] flag system is almost entirely based

[26:39] on rip currents, was that a correct

[26:41] understanding of the statement?

[26:42] >> yes.

[26:43] >> so, should we maybe change --

[26:44] because it talks about high surf or

[26:46] strong currents and if we're based

[26:49] centrally on rip currents, I

[26:50] understand this is standard signage

[26:52] that we're pulling but we don't have a

[26:55] green flag, and it's based on rip

[26:57] currents, maybe focusing the signage

[26:59] on rip currents rather than this

[27:02] generic language may make sense.

[27:03] >> right, so the definitions were

[27:06] based off of the international

[27:09] lifesaving federations definition,

[27:10] they set the definition, and the usla

[27:13] makes it available for lifeguard

[27:16] training for our lifeguards.

[27:17] they haven't adopted the green flag,

[27:22] so, the usla mirrors that statement,

[27:24] so we mirror the usla because we're

[27:27] accredited through them.

[27:30] as far as changing the verbiage, I

[27:36] really stress that the information

[27:40] that's present needs to be consistent

[27:42] across the board even how you fly the

[27:45] flags, e.g. Needs to be consistent.

[27:47] I've also noted -- I've spent a day

[27:50] watching people walk down the beach.

[27:53] I just face the access and I watch

[27:56] them walk and our sand is very unique

[27:58] in a way that it's just unique, it's

[28:01] not like any other sand anywhere else

[28:02] on a beach, so when people first come

[28:05] in contact with our beach, they're

[28:07] looking down at their feet because

[28:10] they're trying to keep their footing

[28:12] or they're amazed by our sand, but our

[28:15] signs are up like this but their eyes

[28:17] are looking down and our flags are

[28:19] really high.

[28:20] we need our flags high so you can see

[28:22] them because they're spaced out,

[28:25] right, but usually you'll see like the

[28:28] dad carrying all the stuff and he's

[28:30] got his eye on a spot on the shore

[28:32] line he's trying to get all these bags

[28:35] too and then everybody else is looking

[28:36] down at the sand so they tend to miss

[28:40] the signs, they tend to miss it and

[28:45] even you'll get to a point where it's

[28:47] sign pollution, you get too many signs

[28:50] and the most important sign, the rip

[28:53] current sign is sometimes really low to

[28:55] the sand and even dune grass is

[28:58] covering it, so the sign that you

[29:00] really need them to pay attention to

[29:03] is not prominent in the field of view.

[29:08] >> I have a couple more.

[29:09] >> yes, council member coburn and then

[29:19] councilman register.

[29:20] >> yes, based on your relationships

[29:23] with other people that are doing your

[29:25] job in other communities, are there

[29:27] any best practices we could adopt that

[29:30] would work for us that come to mind?

[29:50] >> [inaudible] to assess your shore

[29:51] line, assess your area and operate in

[29:54] the manner that's best for your area,

[29:56] so if you go to -- if you visit a

[29:58] beach, if you visit somewhere else in

[30:00] the country or even down south

[30:03] florida, conditions could be greatly

[30:04] different there, specific hazards

[30:06] could be greatly different there than

[30:09] what we face here so, there's probably

[30:11] a few things that you can pull from,

[30:13] like maybe some policies but we really

[30:15] need to stay specific and tailored for

[30:17] our area because we're still unique in

[30:19] a lot of ways here.

[30:21] >> thank you, I think we just need to

[30:22] think out of the box here a little bit

[30:25] and see if we can't come up with some

[30:27] strategies that we can employ that

[30:29] would help your folks do their job.

[30:30] >> sure.

[30:34] >> councilman register?

[30:35] >> in regards to changing the signage

[30:38] possibly, I know we still have

[30:40] undertow and wave height

[30:43] that doesn't have to do with a rip

[30:45] current, is that part of the signage,

[30:47] don't we have some undertow or we have

[30:57] wave heights that can knock people or

[30:59] no?

[31:01] >> so, undertow is just a name for --

[31:03] >> for a rip current.

[31:05] >> there's nothing out there that will

[31:09] grab you and [inaudible]

[31:31] >> sounds to me like the mayor has a

[31:33] great idea to uniform our signage to

[31:36] make it based around rip currents.

[31:38] >> I'm always for simple, concise

[31:41] uniform signage.

[31:42] >> one of the things I'm hearing you

[31:45] say is preventative actions, short of

[31:47] a fully funded lifeguard program,

[31:49] preventative actions would be the next

[31:51] best step to prevent drowning?

[32:01] do we need more preventative

[32:03] actions?

[32:04] >> sure.

[32:06] >> more education, more preventative

[32:09] action.

[32:10] >> yes, that's all great.

[32:11] >> smoke alarms, sprinkler systems and

[32:14] fire detector systems save more lives

[32:16] than firemen.

[32:19] security cameras lead to more

[32:21] successful prosecutions than attorneys

[32:22] and police officers.

[32:27] no flag sign, refrigerator magnet, tv

[32:30] commercial, stood on the shore line

[32:32] and made a public contact with

[32:35] somebody and said don't swim here,

[32:36] there's a rip current, and let me

[32:38] educate you and point it out to them,

[32:40] explain the science behind it.

[32:42] what our lifeguards, how our

[32:44] lifeguards speak and explain things to

[32:45] people is very important to me and

[32:48] we train on that, how are we going to

[32:50] explain what we're going to explain,

[32:52] how are we going to tell them where to

[32:54] go and where to move.

[32:55] >> that takes time, right, each

[32:57] interaction takes time.

[32:58] >> at a guarded beach when you have

[33:01] backup, when you have overwatch with a

[33:04] partner, lifeguards work best in a

[33:05] team, not really so much as single,

[33:07] like when ld have a roving patrol,

[33:10] we try to put a partner with

[33:12] that if the vehicle will accommodate a

[33:15] second person simply because we

[33:18] learned that lifeguards work best as a

[33:20] team.

[33:21] >> it does, yeah.

[33:24] >> last one.

[33:26] from your metrics, less rescues at our

[33:29] guarded beaches?

[33:30] >> yes, that is our standard, there

[33:33] shouldn't be rescues at a guarded

[33:35] beach.

[33:36] >> and you would attribute the fact

[33:37] that we have less need for rescues at

[33:40] guarded beaches due to the

[33:42] preventative actions that they're able

[33:44] to take there?

[33:45] >> yes.

[33:46] >> okay.

[33:47] >> you good?

[33:50] okay.

[33:51] director paul, thank you.

[33:52] >> thank you.

[33:53] >> okay.

[33:54] so, we are tight on time for this

[33:56] meeting, we have to start the next

[34:00] meeting at 5:00.

[34:01] we're going to have a discussion here

[34:03] I know there were some folks who had

[34:05] reached out ahead of time to do public

[34:08] comment, I'm going to allow a few

[34:10] public comments on this subject right

[34:12] now.

[34:13] the rest of the public comments can

[34:15] happen during public comment period in

[34:17] the next meeting, it will be pretty

[34:18] quick, we have a short presentation,

[34:21] but we just -- the way of running this

[34:24] meeting, we got to end this one on

[34:26] time so we start this next one for

[34:29] legal purposes.

[34:30] so, for the folks who want to have

[34:32] public comment, could you raise your

[34:34] hand.

[34:36] okay.

[34:37] I know mr. Hill, go ahead.

[34:39] and I'm going to prioritize people

[34:40] who have not recently spoken to the

[34:43] city council on beach safety issues.

[34:46] if we have someone new here who's

[34:48] providing new information, they're

[34:49] going to be prioritized.

[34:52] >> thank you, I will take just a

[34:54] minute.

[34:55] I'm here on behalf of the rotary club

[34:59] in bay county, both in panama city,

[35:02] panama city beach and lynne haven.

[35:06] thank you for listening to me, mayor,

[35:07] you are right, we need to think

[35:09] outside of the box.

[35:10] we don't need to just think, we need

[35:12] to have action and thoughts and

[35:15] prayers for victims of drowning are

[35:17] not enough, we have to do more.

[35:20] the rotary clubs in bay county stand

[35:22] ready to partner with you guys with the

[35:29] professionals that are involved with

[35:30] these rescues, something called public

[35:31] rescue tubes, I've got a handout, I

[35:33] would love to give you guys and show

[35:35] you, these tubes are already in place

[35:38] and over 700 locations around u.s. And

[35:41] canada.

[35:42] there have been 400 known rescues by

[35:45] private citizens.

[35:46] they're similar to what a lifeguard

[35:48] does use.

[35:50] there are 16 tubes installed in nevar,

[35:55] and there's no loss of life where

[35:56] those tubes have been installed.

[35:59] [inaudible] has four tubes, pensacola

[36:02] has five tubes.

[36:03] these buoys if you will are placed

[36:06] along the cross overs, the rotary club

[36:09] here in bay county is ready to fund

[36:11] this program.

[36:13] there are foundations, there are

[36:16] businesses that would stand behind

[36:17] this to keep when someone's

[36:20] destructive or whatever to replace

[36:22] those tubes.

[36:23] one of the things that people are

[36:27] mindful of and fearful of is liability

[36:31] and risk and I can tell you that I've

[36:33] talked to a number of attorneys and

[36:35] they say that risk is very minimal but

[36:38] the second approach that I think this

[36:40] body and our county can get behind is

[36:42] is to change the good samaritan laws

[36:45] in the state of florida with a very

[36:47] minor change.

[36:48] the state of hawaii has install these

[36:52] tubes and they did a good samaritan

[36:54] law change.

[36:55] the packet that I'm going to provide

[36:57] you today has the florida language and

[36:59] it has the hawaiian language and it's

[37:02] very simple.

[37:03] it's very simple.

[37:05] it protects the private citizens that

[37:09] are partnered with you guys to provide

[37:11] lifeguards and it protects the

[37:13] property owners and the person trying

[37:16] to go out to rescue someone, we're

[37:19] not advocating people to go into

[37:21] dangerous waters but the truth is if

[37:24] you invite someone down here and they

[37:25] go into the water and they get in

[37:28] trouble, most likely you're going to

[37:29] go in and try to rescue them and we've

[37:32] seen it time and time again when

[37:34] people go to rescue someone and they

[37:35] themselves end up drowning so these

[37:37] tubes can provide a backup, an

[37:40] assistance until help can get there

[37:42] and so I'm asking and imploring you to

[37:46] check this out.

[37:47] the rotary clubs here in bay county

[37:50] stand ready to partner with you to

[37:52] make this happen.

[37:53] >> thank you, mr. Hill.

[37:56] we only have time for one more, so who

[38:02] else was -- mr. -- is it mr. White?

[38:07] >> mayor?

[38:08] >> yes.

[38:09] >> may we get a copy of the handout

[38:11] now.

[38:12] >> I think that's reasonable.

[38:14] >> in the meantime, mr. Davis, in

[38:18] terms of liability, could you clarify

[38:21] what city liability would be for these

[38:23] tubes?

[38:24] >> for providing the tubes?

[38:25] >> yes.

[38:26] >> I mean I think the liability is

[38:28] very minimal.

[38:29] as mr. Hill said, liability on the

[38:33] rescuer, that's a different analysis,

[38:35] for the city's liability, I think it

[38:37] would be fairly minimal.

[38:38] >> okay, alright.

[38:39] >> my name's allen white, I'm from

[38:42] panama city, born and raised here.

[38:45] thank you for your time.

[38:46] we've been working on a program for a

[38:48] little over a decade for the very

[38:51] reason we're here today.

[38:54] I can't get into a lot of detail on

[38:56] it because we just don't have enough

[38:57] time.

[38:58] one thing I would like to say is that

[39:01] we've researched rip current drowning

[39:03] around the world from england all up

[39:06] and down the east, west coast.

[39:09] we understand how the rip current

[39:13] works and professor rick stone did a

[39:17] study on rip currents and what the

[39:20] beaches had to add to one of the rip

[39:25] currents are natural sand bars, if

[39:26] you're born and raised here, you can

[39:28] walk 100 feet off shore, you would be

[39:31] in ankle deep water or if you go 100

[39:34] yards off shore and you would be in

[39:36] knee deep water.

[39:38] since dredging and [inaudible] it's

[39:43] changed everything, the tide breaks

[39:44] are hitting the shore line.

[39:46] there's not a natural protection like

[39:48] there used to be, but we have a system

[39:50] we've been developing that uses led

[39:52] lights, she was mentioning thinking

[39:57] out of the box.

[39:58] if you want to see the flag system

[40:00] working better, put it out into the

[40:02] water where you can see it, you have

[40:04] 40 thousand people on the beach and

[40:09] everybody 's looking at the water.

[40:13] we have an indicator with an led

[40:18] light, an emergency camera system, if

[40:20] you get in trouble and don't have a

[40:21] cell phone, the minute you touch that

[40:24] button on that walkway and every

[40:27] access points have these lights, when

[40:28] you're walking down the walkway, the

[40:32] subliminal message will already be

[40:35] red, yellow green, whatever, so now

[40:37] you're walking towards the beach and

[40:39] you're getting that led light telling

[40:41] you what signal it is.

[40:43] and if you get in trouble, most people

[40:46] call, we have 911, I don't know

[40:48] where we're at, we don't know where

[40:51] we're at, we're in the middle of 40

[40:53] thousand people, we don't know where

[40:54] we're at.

[40:56] the minute they touch that light and

[40:58] open that light emergency box, it's

[40:59] like a fire alarm, they pick it up

[41:05] instantly, the signal goes to the

[41:06] gentlemen on the beach, on their

[41:08] ipads, their smart phones, the system

[41:11] changes the lighting system and this

[41:13] system has a verbal command.

[41:15] in other words, they can communicate

[41:16] with the people on the beach through

[41:19] this system on their ipad or their

[41:21] smart phone.

[41:22] they can change the system part of the

[41:25] beach, on the beach and the

[41:27] information coming from noaa from the

[41:32] shipping land buoys is instant, it's

[41:34] combining into their monitors, so

[41:36] there's several things.

[41:37] we can talk about this forever and we

[41:40] changed the law, [inaudible] wrote the

[41:43] amendment.

[41:44] >> we've changed the law and it's

[41:46] changed and now we can use the system

[41:48] in the state of florida.

[41:49] >> thank you, I appreciate you.

[41:52] okay.

[41:53] , we only have about 10, 15 minutes

[41:57] left of this meet, I'm going to cut

[42:00] public comment there.

[42:01] we're going to have to move

[42:03] public comment for this to the

[42:05] non-agenda comments for the next

[42:06] meeting which will be starting here in

[42:08] just about 20 minutes.

[42:09] I wanted to give the council time to

[42:11] discuss our options.

[42:15] for one, I am really interested in

[42:19] seeing what we can do to add lifeguard

[42:25] beaches.

[42:26] I think -- I've heard the great work

[42:29] the tdc's recently done in terms of

[42:31] finding an extra couple of hundred

[42:35] thousand.

[42:36] >> 360.

[42:37] >> an extra 360.

[42:38] >> that would go to us.

[42:39] >> that would go to panama city beach

[42:44] for this purpose.

[42:45] I think it would be worth looking into

[42:47] -- we only have one taker for our

[42:51] public/private partnership and that's

[42:52] because we asked them to fund 100%

[42:55] including capital.

[42:56] maybe we could consider looking at

[43:02] subsidizing that public/privateer

[43:06] partnership or taking some of the

[43:08] public beach accesses and providing a

[43:10] lifeguard beach there, it won't do the

[43:13] entire island.

[43:14] that would be a nice way to expand

[43:15] that money but I'll let the rest of

[43:18] the council go through comments and we

[43:21] can see if we can fit two rounds in.

[43:23] >> absolute will you.

[43:24] >> do you want to start?

[43:27] >> sure, I like both of your ideas.

[43:29] I think if we covered the capital cost

[43:33] for setting up a lifeguard at a

[43:37] resort, that would save them some

[43:39] money but then they would still be

[43:41] paying the salary for the personnel

[43:43] that would be stationed there and I do

[43:46] -- perhaps we look at the beach access

[43:50] and we pick some out and we make those

[43:53] lifeguard beaches but still have

[43:58] rovers.

[43:59] I wouldn't want to take away from

[44:00] having those rovers because I think

[44:01] those are very important.

[44:02] but I think those are two really good

[44:05] ideas.

[44:06] >> okay.

[44:07] thank you, council member.

[44:08] councilman register?

[44:09] >> I agree with

[44:10] you, I think those are both great

[44:11] ideas but what I'm hearing and this is

[44:14] manager that's kept me up at night

[44:16] when people are drowning.

[44:18] I worked on this beach since I was 14

[44:21] working on the sand behind calipso,

[44:31] no one drowned on that beach and the

[44:34] reason is because I cared enough to

[44:42] tell peel and take preventative

[44:44] action, so I've been meeting with

[44:48] beach service representatives,

[44:51] [inaudible], james vaught, james jones,

[44:53] some other endorsee up and down the

[44:54] beach, I think we have 75-100 vendors

[44:57] and I have met with dan roe at the tdc

[45:01] several times regarding maybe a beach

[45:04] ambassador program where we can

[45:05] utilize boots on the ground.

[45:06] they are not lifeguard certified, I

[45:09] don't expect them to be, but if

[45:33] [inaudible].

[45:53] ( site buffering ).

[46:20] >> this is right there all the

[46:21] time, I would like to see us take some

[46:23] time to implement a beach ambassador

[46:26] program where the tdc pays those

[46:28] individuals to help us market our

[46:30] beaches.

[46:31] it ups the level of service for

[46:33] residents, tourists, everybody that

[46:34] visits our beaches.

[46:35] it gives them an opportunity to feel

[46:43] safe and understand.

[46:44] some people, I hear people all the

[46:46] time, I walk the floors in my building

[46:48] all the time and look out, still

[46:50] double red flag so we do see it and

[46:53] that system does work but it's a lot

[46:55] more effective when you're

[46:56] communicating it and if I can get 100

[46:58] more people in the bay county telling

[47:02] people and helping you guys and I

[47:03] think you had a number on your slide,

[47:07] you had 172 thousand 51 preventative

[47:11] actions.

[47:12] that's a lot of actions and how many

[47:13] people do you have on your staff?

[47:18] nine?

[47:19] how many including you?

[47:20] nine people.

[47:21] if I can give you 100 more in the

[47:24] county, I can get a lot more

[47:27] preventative actions.

[47:28] they're not lifeguards, again, they're

[47:30] not lifeguards, I worked on the beach,

[47:33] we had to be lifeguard certified back

[47:35] in the day.

[47:36] I want to collect all these guys

[47:39] together, and they're willing to do it, it's

[47:42] something I'm passionate about and

[47:43] something I like to see done and we

[47:45] don't have to use the dollars for that.

[47:47] marketing dollars, it is, if that's

[47:49] something you guys are interested in,

[47:51] I rhinitis good idea and I would love

[47:53] to remove restrictions on double red

[47:54] flags where they can go across

[47:56] property lines sh we have atv's and

[48:00] jet skis we can use, let these guys

[48:03] cross property eyes if they can make a

[48:07] preventative action and save a life.

[48:08] >> thank you.

[48:09] >> thank you.

[48:14] >> I support that 110% and using new

[48:18] marketing money, it would be a lot

[48:20] more money than what we're getting and

[48:23] getting a lot more bodies and I love

[48:26] the rotary's idea of putting those

[48:29] rescue tubes down there.

[48:31] I also was a lifeguard, I started my

[48:34] career as a city lifeguard back in the

[48:41] 70's and that's a tough job you guys

[48:44] are doing, very tough.

[48:46] and the ones that we were able to save

[48:49] I remember were the ones that had what

[48:53] we call back then a three dollar

[48:57] inflatable float and by the time we

[49:01] got down there, it would take five to

[49:04] ten minutes to get there.

[49:06] if they didn't have some type of

[49:09] flotation device for them, that was a

[49:11] recovery effort at that time, it

[49:13] wasn't saving anybody, but I remember

[49:16] one particular day, I didn't count

[49:18] them when we got down there, I was in

[49:20] awe on how people were out there

[49:23] afterwards.

[49:24] it was over with, I think they said

[49:25] there was 17 people and one family

[49:29] were out there and had gotten trapped

[49:33] out there, two at a time, five at a

[49:35] time, it started with two kids and they

[49:38] all went in and there was a real bad

[49:42] rip behind the gulf crest, and so they

[49:45] had five or six of those different

[49:49] colored air mattresses and this was

[49:51] back in the late 70's, and so we took

[49:55] a rope to them, we had 300 feet of

[49:58] rope and we got two or three times we

[50:00] got out there to them and ended up

[50:04] getting them all in.

[50:05] two or three went to the hospital, you

[50:07] know, but they survived and we rescued

[50:12] them but what slavered those people

[50:13] was they had a flotation device and

[50:16] the people that had the state of mine

[50:20] to get another float before they went

[50:22] in the water because if you ever go in

[50:24] the water after somebody, don't go

[50:26] without some type of flotation device.

[50:29] what I want to propose and I talked to

[50:35] cole about it and it's out of the box

[50:37] like mary was saying, I propose that

[50:40] on a single red flag day, that we

[50:44] require the swimmers, the people going

[50:46] in the gulf to have some type of

[50:51] flotation device.

[50:52] I've been watching that, like darryl

[50:54] said, I watch them go down there, they

[50:57] have it with them, they have boogie

[51:02] boards, floats, noodles, any of those

[51:04] things will keep people alive long

[51:07] enough if they caught in one until

[51:10] somebody can get there and not do a

[51:13] recovery, it can be a happy ending if

[51:17] they have some type of flotation

[51:18] device and that's thinking way outside

[51:20] of the box because I know if kohl's

[51:23] been able to find any other city that

[51:24] does that.

[51:25] over the years, people have asked me,

[51:27] just make them wear life jackets,

[51:30] nobody will die.

[51:31] and I said, well, it's not that easy.

[51:33] people don't want to come to the beach

[51:35] and wear a life jacket but that's the

[51:37] truth.

[51:38] if they would, then nobody would drown.

[51:42] but anyhow, I do think that that's

[51:45] worth trying and it may not work but

[51:47] we got to do something.

[51:48] everybody says you have to do

[51:50] something, we're trying to get more

[51:53] lifeguards and tdc is stepping up with

[51:55] more money which is great and this

[51:58] ambassador program and the rotary, the

[52:00] public, we need to do something and I

[52:04] don't know if this is directed to

[52:06] counsel at this point to have some

[52:08] dialogue about it, I don't know if we

[52:09] could do that but that would be my

[52:15] suggestion, we're kind of at a point

[52:16] where we need toe do something.

[52:17] >> councilman, I was going to let

[52:18] everyone talk and then kind of get

[52:19] direction if that works.

[52:20] >> perfect.

[52:21] >> vice mayor, do you think you can do

[52:23] it in two minutes.

[52:24] >> I'll be really quick.

[52:26] I think we've come up with some good

[52:29] ideas.

[52:30] we definitely get with the tdc as well

[52:33] on the tubes, I've been looking at

[52:36] some ai software that can complement

[52:46] lifeguards.

[52:47] I like the ambassador program, it can

[52:49] free up some of the lifeguards to do

[52:54] more rescue and not have to be the

[52:57] preventative nature if we've got 100

[52:58] extra people out there doing it, so

[53:00] that's it.

[53:01] >> okay.

[53:02] I heard about five ideas, let me

[53:05] summarize them.

[53:07] one is investigating a subsidized

[53:10] program including maybe potentially

[53:13] subsidizing capital costs.

[53:14] I personally would also like to see

[53:18] subsidizing the actual lifeguards for

[53:21] creating lifeguards on peps, enhancing

[53:24] our public/private partnership.

[53:25] the beach ambassador program,

[53:27] investigating if there's any order --

[53:32] ordinances or anything that we need to

[53:33] do this.

[53:34] the funding would come from tdc there.

[53:37] if there's anything we need to do from

[53:39] a city ordinance side there.

[53:41] rescue tubes, I think it would be

[53:43] great to work with rotary and I think

[53:46] a few people here were interested in

[53:48] rescue tubes, what are the options in

[53:51] terms of mounting, can we have a

[53:53] partnerships there, that's the third

[53:56] one.

[53:57] councilman casto's idea on

[54:03] requiring flotation devices on single

[54:05] reds and the information we got, we had

[54:07] 14 cases of drowning on single reds,

[54:10] more than double reds at this point,

[54:11] so I think that makes sense to

[54:13] investigate that and then finally vice

[54:18] mayor jarman's ai software.

[54:20] >> I'm waiting for phone calls back.

[54:22] >> so, does it make sense to get

[54:24] options on those five?

[54:25] >> and could we also get more

[54:28] information from mr. White over here.

[54:30] >> mr. White, yes.

[54:32] >> so, those five plus, drew, if you

[54:37] could reach out to mr. White and have

[54:39] him talk to chief morgan, alright.

[54:41] did we make it?

[54:42] I think we made it, okay.

[54:45] the public comment for -- I know a lot

[54:47] of you wanted to do public comment on

[54:49] this beach safety, just do it at the

[54:51] next meeting which is going to start

[54:52] here in about five minutes, okay.

[54:53] that's it.

[54:57] this meeting is adjourned.

[55:00] ( meeting adjourned ).

City Council

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