[0:08] We are ready.

[0:10] Okay, I'd like to call to this

[0:13] meeting of the Rochester Select Board, Monday, October 5th, 2026.

[0:18] This meeting may be video and audio recorded. Please stand for the pledge.

[0:28] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the

[0:34] Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with

[0:39] liberty and justice for all.

[0:43] Thank you.

[0:54] Executive session. Executive session pursuant to Open Meeting Law Chapter 30A,

[1:00] Section 21 3 to discuss strategy with respect to litigation

[1:07] if an open meeting may have detrimental effect on the bargaining position of the

[1:12] public body and GSO appeals. To approve the executive

[1:18] session minutes of March 16th and April 6th, 2026.

[1:24] The board will not be returning to open session after the executive session.

[1:35] Is there a motion for the

[1:38] minutes?

[1:38] I make a motion to approve the minutes of September 21st.

[1:42] Second.

[1:44] Thank you. All in favor?

[1:46] Aye.

[2:00] Finance Committee appointment of Michael Amato, discussion and possible vote.

[2:08] Mr. Chair, per the

[2:11] bylaws

[2:13] regarding how the Finance Committee is formed, that vote is to be done through a

[2:19] committee of the chair of the Finance Committee, the moderator, and yourself.

[2:25] And representatives are here right now, Ms. Ricotta.

[2:30] Sorry, Ricco,

[2:33] and the town moderator.

[2:35] All right. So I will call to order the appointment party for the Finance Committee

[2:40] consisting of the town moderator as the chairperson, the Finance Committee

[2:45] chairman, and the chairperson of the select board.

[2:49] Since the vacancy has been created by the chairman of the Finance Committee, we

[2:54] defer it back to the vice chair, which is Mr. Ricco.

[2:59] Is Mr. Amato here?

[3:01] He is

[3:02] unable to be here, but he sent in

[3:07] a letter showing interest and NOA concern, basically.

[3:13] Okay. So historically, the applicant has been present to go ahead and answer any

[3:18] questions just like I was when I was appointed back in 2013.

[3:22] I did not receive a letter. I don't know if Mr. Ricco Jr. did not.

[3:27] So

[3:28] I don't know what the deal is, but I'd like to follow history in terms of allowing

[3:33] the applicant to be here, allow the public to ask the applicant any pertinent

[3:37] questions regarding the appointment, because it's obviously one of the more

[3:40] important committees that we do have in town.

[3:49] You can-- Well, certainly,

[3:52] as this committee, you can make your decision, and that's fine.

[3:55] I will be happy just to read quickly the letter to the record, and then you can

[3:59] most certainly choose your path. "Good afternoon, please accept this letter as my

[4:04] formal intent to apply for the open position on the Finance Committee.

[4:07] I bring many qualities required to succeed this position.

[4:09] I have been a resident of the town for 30 years and am invested in its future.

[4:13] As a business owner, I feel I'm highly qualified for this position.

[4:16] I have a vast knowledge of maintaining financial records, balancing budgets, as

[4:19] well as overseeing day-to-day operations. Thank you for the consideration. Dr.

[4:23] Michael Amato."

[4:26] Mr. Ricco?

[4:29] I agree with the moderator. He should be here to answer questions, again, because

[4:34] the decisions we make or the recommendations we make affect everybody in town.

[4:38] Everybody in town should have an opportunity to question whoever's on this

[4:41] committee.

[4:44] Chairperson of the select board.

[4:52] I don't see a problem with it.

[4:55] He's the only one that's interested in the position.

[4:57] Can't hear you.

[4:59] I don't see a problem with it because he's the only one that's interested in the

[5:02] position, and I think we should fill the position.

[5:06] If there were other people interested in that position,

[5:12] then I would say hold off. But

[5:15] as far as

[5:17] myself and the chairman is concerned, I think we should vote.

[5:24] Okay. Is there a motion?

[5:28] Nope, he has to go through you. As for you, Mr. Chairman?

[5:32] I make a motion to appoint Michael Amato to the Finance

[5:37] Committee for a term expiring-

[5:47] April 30th.

[5:49] April-

[5:50] With the next round of appointments on March 30th.

[5:53] April 30th, 2027.

[5:57] Is there a second?

[5:58] I'll second.

[5:59] Motion has been made and been seconded. Discussion?

[6:04] Same discussion.

[6:07] I don't think the person should be present to answer questions that the public

[6:10] might have.

[6:13] So

[6:15] I guess I'm concerned of the fact that myself and the Finance Committee vice

[6:20] chairman

[6:23] have concerns about that, and we take a vote and he is not voting in it.

[6:28] Obviously, it's the one applicant.

[6:30] So

[6:33] I make a motion we postpone the vote until the next meeting of the select board

[6:37] where we can actually meet the candidate.

[6:41] Either that or-

[6:42] There's been a motion that's been made.

[6:44] So you have to second.

[6:46] But Dewey seconded. So either the chairperson can rescind the vote,

[6:51] rescind his motion, or

[6:54] you can rescind your second.

[6:58] So can we postpone until he's available?

[7:01] I see-

[7:02] And then have a later meeting?

[7:07] So just for everybody's knowledge, the gentleman that's applied or put in a letter

[7:11] of interest is Dr. Michael Amato. A lot of you may or may not know him.

[7:16] He's also a call firefighter in the town of Rochester.

[7:19] He has a chiropractic firm in the town of Wareham, West Wareham area.

[7:24] So the reason he couldn't be here at 6:00 p.m.

[7:26] is because he's finishing up his day, as it were.

[7:30] He is a gentleman that has spent several years donating his time with the fire

[7:34] department. He rides the ambulance that comes to your houses in a time of need and

[7:38] emergencies.

[7:41] So we're going to try to reach out to him, see if we can get him here.

[7:44] As far as a character reference, I think anybody that knows Dr.

[7:48] Amato, he looks out for the best interest of the community.

[7:52] He certainly will do that in the role on the Finance Committee.

[7:56] This isn't a term for three years or so.

[7:58] This is just filling a void from the absence of someone being there.

[8:03] But with the recommendations of the current committee, we'll try to reach out to

[8:07] him, so if anybody has any questions, they can get those answered.

[8:12] All right, so I'm going to recess this

[8:28] committee until 6:30. Is there a motion to recess until 6:30?

[8:34] Yes.

[8:35] Motion by the chairperson. Is there a second?

[8:37] Second.

[8:38] All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye.

[8:41] All right, we're in recess until 6:30.

[8:45] Our next call to order, the appointment committee to the Oak Colony School

[8:50] Committee appointment, which would consist of the following, as the town moderator

[8:54] as chairperson, the Rochester School Committee, which is present, the school clerk

[8:58] present, the last the chair- Chairperson call every meeting to order, but then the

[9:04] select was already in session. So the chairperson will call this meeting to order.

[9:09] I'd like to call this brief meeting of the Rochester Memorial School Committee to

[9:13] order at 6:13 PM.

[9:17] All right. So our consideration for tonight is the appointment of Sharon Cruz,

[9:24] discussion of possible vote.

[9:27] Is there any discussion from the reps to--

[9:34] Any discussion from the Rochester selects?

[9:40] Is there any member of the public?

[9:45] Sir, would you please rise and state your name and address for the record?

[9:48] Hi, my name is Doug Sims, 8 Mayflower Lane, Rochester.

[9:52] I'm a teacher at Old Colony. I just want it to be known that

[9:58] we're reappointing a select board, I mean, a

[10:02] school committee member that has decided that the best tact for the negotiations is

[10:08] to no longer negotiate with us for a fair contract.

[10:11] So, we do have concerns.

[10:16] We have gone to the bargaining table.

[10:19] We've asked

[10:21] to continue negotiations, but they've taken the tact to no longer negotiate with

[10:26] the 70 teachers at Old Colony. Which you can see could

[10:32] create a lot of

[10:37] animosity

[10:39] within the building.

[10:41] I think that it should be paused. It should be looked at.

[10:44] There should be a period of time where other applicants can apply instead of just

[10:50] an automatic reappointment to the school committee.

[10:54] As far as I know, this was not a posted position.

[10:56] I don't know if it's been posted in the past.

[10:58] I have not seen any post for it requesting somebody else to fill that position.

[11:03] So I just ask that you pause, do a little research,

[11:07] see if there's another candidate that might be willing to negotiate with the

[11:10] teachers and other staff at the building to get a fair contract in place for our

[11:15] members that we deserve. And that's it. Thank you.

[11:22] Other

[11:25] members of the public.

[11:26] My name's Lance Berlet, 305 Raleigh Old Road here in Rochester, and I agree with

[11:30] Mr. Sims.

[11:32] If we have someone on school board that's not really doing what we would consider

[11:38] their job,

[11:40] and also I didn't see that post. I maybe I missed it.

[11:45] But maybe to delay this and see if there's any other applicants that may be a

[11:49] better fit, I suggest that be the way to go. Thank you.

[11:57] Any other member of the public have comment?

[12:04] Is there a motion on the appointment of Sharon Cruz to the Old Colony School

[12:10] Committee?

[12:11] I make a motion that we appoint Sharon Cruz to Old Colony School Committee.

[12:15] Is there a second from the school committee?

[12:20] I second the motion.

[12:22] Motion made to be seconded. All those in favor signify by saying aye on the

[12:27] appointment from the Rochester School Committee.

[12:29] Aye.

[12:34] Aye.

[12:34] Katy, are you yes?

[12:36] Aye.

[12:37] Passes five zero for Rochester School Committee. For the Rochester Select Board.

[12:42] Make a motion we appoint.

[12:46] Sharon Cruz.

[12:48] Second.

[12:49] Motion's been made to be seconded. Discussion. Hearing none, we prepare to vote.

[12:53] All those in favor signify by saying aye.

[12:56] Aye.

[12:57] Those opposed. Passes unanimously.

[13:00] Appointment authority has appointed Sharon Cruz back to the Old Colony School

[13:05] Committee. Seeing no other business before this appointing authority, is there a

[13:09] motion to adjourn the appointing authority this evening?

[13:13] Motion to adjourn.

[13:14] Seconded. All in favor?

[13:16] Aye.

[13:18] Katy.

[13:19] I would like to-

[13:21] Yep

[13:21] ... make a motion for, entertain a motion to adjourn this meeting of the Rochester

[13:24] Memorial School Committee.

[13:27] Second.

[13:28] Second.

[13:28] All in favor?

[13:29] Aye.

[13:30] Aye.

[13:33] We can wrap it at 6:30.

[13:42] All right.

[13:52] The Flock Cameras citizen discussion.

[13:58] Today we will be discussing Flock Cameras, which people are passionate about on

[14:04] both sides. We will begin by letting a spokesperson from a group of residents who

[14:09] sent in a letter read their statement.

[14:13] Board members may ask questions. We will take comments from the floor,

[14:19] but the chair will limit comments to two minutes and determine the number of

[14:23] residents to speak.

[14:26] Do we have somebody here that represents?

[14:28] Yes. Hi, I'm Alima Tiffany, 206 Richmond Road.

[14:37] There's a number of us that did a bunch of work on flock cameras

[14:43] and what they are. So we kind of divided what we were gonna say into three people.

[14:49] So I'd like for them to speak, and

[14:52] then I have Patty here and also Kenny that have two other issues.

[14:57] We identified five issues with flock cameras.

[15:01] I researched three, they researched the other two. So if it's okay with you, Mr.

[15:06] Chairman-

[15:07] Yes

[15:07] ... we'd like for them to address their pieces, too.

[15:11] Of course.

[15:11] Otherwise, I'll just give you the basics. Thank you.

[15:16] Thanks for being here.

[15:17] Absolutely.

[15:17] And thank you for holding the coffee with a cop.

[15:21] It answered a lot of questions that we did have on the letter, but our concerns

[15:27] go beyond the town. So,

[15:31] there are two sides of the argument for automatic license plate readers, which we

[15:35] call ALPRs. The cameras are used by police departments to solve crimes.

[15:40] That's a public safety argument.

[15:42] Sorry. Can you face this way so we can hear you or speak up a little bit?

[15:46] The sound is coming back through the TV back here. Can you shut the sound off?

[15:51] Yeah, that's not-

[15:52] Turn off the PowerPoint.

[15:54] Lower the volume, yeah.

[15:56] But there's another side to the coin, privacy and civil liberties, and that's what

[16:00] I'm here to talk about. Nobody is saying technology can't help solve police crimes.

[16:06] The question is whether every useful technology should automatically be accepted

[16:11] simply because it can be useful. The camera that captures a license plate isn't

[16:16] just sitting there and saying, "Hey, this person committed a crime." It's

[16:21] collecting information about vehicles moving through public spaces.

[16:25] When you build a network of cameras capable of tracking movements over time, the

[16:30] conversation becomes much bigger than catching a stolen car.

[16:35] It becomes a conversation about how much information the government should be able

[16:39] to collect about ordinary people who aren't suspected of doing anything wrong.

[16:46] It's not an anti-police argument. It's a civil liberties question.

[16:51] In our group, we identified five major areas.

[16:55] One of them, which I will address, is that ALPR is a surveillance system.

[17:02] There are at least 130,000 flock cameras that monitor roads in every

[17:07] state but Alaska. Flock told the press this summer that it operates

[17:12] 120,000 cameras nationwide. A cybersecurity researcher, i.e.

[17:18] a hacker, said that Flock's nationwide reach is even bigger.

[17:25] This hacker actually talked

[17:28] to the Senate under oath to the Senate Judiciary Committee on Crime and

[17:34] Counterterrorism.

[17:37] More than 5,000 law enforcement agencies now use Flock.

[17:41] There are at least 80 police departments in Massachusetts that use it.

[17:46] It is one of the most comprehensive vehicle tracking systems ever built in a

[17:50] democracy. A single camera captures not just the plate, it captures the make, the

[17:55] model, the color, distinguishing features, bumper stickers, all of that.

[18:00] The data is stored. The database is the system

[18:06] The sharing is the system. The network is the system.

[18:10] It is searchable, and it is shared.

[18:12] It operates with no federal oversight, no state oversight, and unless you tell me

[18:17] otherwise, no town oversight except by our police department.

[18:23] Police can use this information without obtaining a warrant or judicial approval to

[18:27] make arrests to present as evidence in court.

[18:30] By embedding these cameras six at a time in small communities like Rochester,

[18:36] the government, local, state, and federal, can track a vehicle from neighborhood to

[18:41] neighborhood, East Coast to West Coast, not just highway to highway.

[18:46] It's not just six cameras in Rochester anymore.

[18:49] It is six cameras that link to thousands more to track all of us as we go about our

[18:54] daily business.

[18:56] The chief said we really have no expectation of privacy in public.

[19:00] A camera on a public road is fair game, and that's a common defense of flock

[19:05] cameras. I agree. A single look is public.

[19:09] A plate reader network builds a timestamped searchable history of where my car has

[19:15] been, retrievable weeks later, and shareable to states with no deletion at

[19:20] all. A camera seeing you isn't the same thing as a network, a surveillance

[19:26] network, remembering where it saw you and when it saw you.

[19:31] Just last week, a district court federal judge in Oklahoma explained why the

[19:36] expectation of privacy becomes more complicated when thousands of cameras

[19:41] collecting everybody's movements, storing them, and connecting them together allow

[19:45] police to reconstruct where someone has traveled.

[19:48] Judge Sarah Hale ruled that an officer's use of ALPR systems to search a woman's

[19:53] historical movements was an unconstitutional warrantless search under the Fourth

[19:59] Amendment. Oh, by the way, the woman that they pulled over had 81 pounds of

[20:03] methamphetamine in her car, but that was all tossed out because the search was

[20:07] unconstitutional.

[20:10] So why did Congress approve a nationwide surveillance program in this form?

[20:15] Because that's what it actually is.

[20:17] It's been backdoored in the form of local and state agencies using government

[20:21] funds, usually federal grant money, to install them with the

[20:25] inherent ability to have data collected and stored in one place and

[20:31] networked together.

[20:33] So the second point I wanted to make was there is really no control over what

[20:38] happens to the data that is collected.

[20:41] Police departments that use Flock and seek to protect the rights of Massachusetts

[20:45] residents from out-of-state or federal scrutiny must turn off information sharing

[20:50] settings authorizing these entities from searching the data they collect.

[20:54] And Chief Lozada has told us that, yes, they do not share with out-of-state

[21:01] requesters. But even when departments opt to restrict this sharing,

[21:07] they may not actually be protecting people's privacies.

[21:11] Public records reviewed by the ACLU of Massachusetts, the template user agreement,

[21:16] which our police department has signed, gives Flock a non-exclusive...

[21:21] This is a quote from that

[21:25] template agreement, "A non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, royalty-free right and

[21:30] license to use and distribute

[21:35] aggregated data to improve and enhance the services for other development,

[21:40] diagnostic, corrective purposes, other Flock offerings, and crime prevention

[21:45] efforts, and to disclose the agency data to enable law enforcement monitoring

[21:50] against law enforcement hotlists, as well as provide footage search access to law

[21:55] enforcement for investigative purposes only."

[21:59] So what that means in practice is troubling.

[22:02] Even when our police department has chosen, in Flock's application data, to

[22:07] restrict access to its own officers, the template agreement gives Flock the right

[22:13] to disclose the local police department's data to both law enforcement nationwide

[22:18] and federal agencies for investigative purposes.

[22:22] And just on the 23rd of September, Ben Jordan, a hacker, testified in front of the

[22:27] Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Counterterrorism.

[22:30] The hearing centered on ALPRs and AI-powered cameras that local police like

[22:36] ours install on street corners in their towns.

[22:40] Jordan testified that the hardware is fundamentally compromised.

[22:44] He testified the cameras run on modified, outdated software lacking basic federal

[22:50] cybersecurity standards. He exposed how researchers can hack the most common Flock

[22:55] camera model in under a minute simply by pressing a button three times.

[23:01] He detailed finding unprotected administrative interfaces that allowed him to

[23:05] remotely view and modify a month's worth of streaming footage from across the

[23:10] country. Most alarmingly, Jordan noted that active law enforcement accounts from

[23:15] Flock databases were found for sale by a Russian vendor on the dark web.

[23:20] All of this was said under oath to a Senate judiciary committee.

[23:27] So I was going to talk about its abuse by users, but

[23:32] our police department really does have a good policy in place that prevents

[23:37] officers in the RPD from accessing the thing to look for an ex

[23:43] or

[23:45] someone dating their ex. So that's all well and good.

[23:49] But what happens when somebody from

[23:53] outside of Rochester wants to track someone in Rochester

[23:59] and stalk them? We know that just in New Bedford, there were two

[24:04] police officers, I believe, lost their jobs because they used the Flock system

[24:10] to track their significant others who were now exes.

[24:14] So in conclusion, I'm really not here to oppose safety.

[24:18] I'm here to oppose the gradual erosion of our constitutional liberties.

[24:23] Our freedoms are never taken at once.

[24:25] They are taken one step at a time, and each of those steps is presented as being

[24:30] justified, reasonable, or necessary.

[24:34] Freedom for safety,

[24:37] privacy for convenience, liberty for efficiency, until one day we turn around and

[24:43] we feel like what we have traded cannot be reclaimed.

[24:46] I don't doubt that all of us want a safer town.

[24:50] What I do doubt is that we did not fully consider what was at stake in pursuit of

[24:56] that goal. This is not just about six cameras in Rochester.

[25:00] This is about constitutional stewardship.

[25:03] All of us in this room on this side of the table are here for different reasons.

[25:09] We all feel differently about the schools.

[25:11] We feel differently about development, taxes, and these cameras.

[25:15] And we can disagree on all these issues.

[25:18] Before we are Democrats or Republicans, homeowners or cranberry farmers, we on this

[25:24] side of the table are We the People.

[25:26] Those are not just the first few words of the Constitution.

[25:30] Those are a reminder of who the government was created to serve.

[25:34] As We the People, we have a different obligation to the Constitution than you.

[25:40] We did not take a vote to support the Constitution. You did.

[25:44] The authority you exercise from that side of the table was entrusted to you from

[25:49] this side of the table by We the People. That's what stewardship means.

[25:56] You are not merely administrators of our town.

[25:58] You are stewards of our constitutional liberties.

[26:02] As such, you must remember constitutional limits were not written

[26:07] because we did not trust today's public servants.

[26:10] They were written because we cannot know tomorrow's.

[26:13] The Constitution was not written as a government rule book for the people.

[26:17] It was written as a restraint over its government.

[26:20] One day you will return to this side of the table, and when you do, the liberties

[26:25] you have preserved will protect your families as they protect mine.

[26:30] We the People is not just how the Constitution begins.

[26:34] It's a reminder of the responsibility we have to never surrender the freedoms that

[26:39] are entrusted to us and to preserve the liberties for those who come after us.

[26:44] Thank you for your time.

[26:59] Chief, how about you address the questions-

[27:04] Absolutely

[27:04] ... that they had?

[27:05] So there was a lot in that. I know. And I only did three minutes.

[27:10] So I'm going to try to

[27:13] explain the cameras the best I can, especially for the people that were not here

[27:18] for the coffee with the chief.

[27:20] So we deployed the cameras sometime in March.

[27:24] I want to say towards the end of March.

[27:25] We had a LPR policy and procedure in place before we ever deployed them.

[27:31] I'm sorry, what does LPR mean?

[27:33] Automated license plate reader, ALPR.

[27:37] These ALPRs are not speed cameras. They don't check your speed.

[27:43] All they do is take a picture of your license plate and your car. Right?

[27:47] Whatever your license plate is on, it's going to take a picture of that plate and

[27:51] the vehicle you're driving. If you have bumper stickers, yeah, it takes a picture

[27:54] of that. It does not run your information.

[27:58] So all Flock has is a picture of your plate and a picture of your car.

[28:02] We then have to go into CJIS, which is a computer system that is monitored by the

[28:07] FBI and NCIC, and we have to run that plate ourselves to get your

[28:13] information. So if I hop out in my police car right now and go through the parking

[28:17] lot, I can run everybody's plate for no reason at all and get your date of birth,

[28:21] where you live, your Social Security number. I can do that for any reason at all.

[28:26] If I want to use Flock or one of my officers, there's only a few officers that are

[28:30] allowed to run the program. If they want to use it, they have to have a law

[28:35] enforcement purpose to use it. They can't just use it for any reason.

[28:39] So there's a dropdown screen that you put in the reason why you're looking at the

[28:43] car, whether it's a stolen motor vehicle, wanted person, under narcotics

[28:47] investigation, terrorism. There's a whole bunch of different

[28:52] dropdowns that you could use, but you have to have a law enforcement reason to run

[28:56] it through Flock. So that's the difference between me hopping in my cruiser right

[29:00] now and just randomly running everybody's plate in the parking lot or driving down

[29:04] the street and running your plate. I don't have to have a reason to do that.

[29:07] With Flock, you do. So that differentiates what we have in our police cars and

[29:13] Flock.

[29:14] Flock, as I said before, is not being used to track normal, regular,

[29:20] everyday citizens who are not breaking the law.

[29:23] We have to have a reason to put your plate into Flock and run, which is either you

[29:28] committed a crime, we're looking into you for drug dealing, maybe there's a missing

[29:34] person, we're trying to find their car.

[29:36] We've already used it numerous times, and it's helped us save a life.

[29:40] We recovered somebody who was abducted, numerous drug cases, numerous thefts.

[29:45] This past Friday, we had a stolen motor vehicle from Wareham.

[29:49] We put it in our Flock system as a hotlist. It came back through town.

[29:53] Our officers were able then to get behind the vehicle, which was stopped in Wareham

[29:57] without incident. So they got their car back, and two drug dealers were actually

[30:02] arrested inside the vehicle.

[30:06] So with the data, we have the cloud data. It's our data, right?

[30:11] We don't disseminate it. If somebody hacks our data, right, what they're getting is

[30:15] they're getting license plates and vehicles.

[30:18] They're not getting anybody's personal information.

[30:21] All they're getting is a picture of a plate and a vehicle.

[30:24] So if somebody hacked our system, things can be hacked.

[30:26] It happens all the time, right? So if somebody hacked our system, that's what

[30:30] they're getting. They're not getting your information.

[30:32] They're getting a license plate and a vehicle.

[30:37] Does that make sense to everybody?

[30:39] Does anybody have any questions on that while I'm standing up here?

[30:41] I do, but I'd like to address it in my statement.

[30:44] And it looks like you have a big statement, too.

[30:45] So can I just ask you maybe some questions, and you can go back and forth with me

[30:49] with your statement?

[30:50] Point of order. So it is past 6:30, as you perceive that, but I just would like to

[30:55] get this through if the chairperson would so allow before this is a big discussion.

[31:02] Dr. Milo's not available.

[31:03] No, he's not. Yeah, he's not. Just postpone that.

[31:07] I have to do it. It's just a point.

[31:11] Then we'll just postpone.

[31:13] All right. So there was a motion to appoint. Do we second it?

[31:17] Do you want to rescind your motion?

[31:19] I will make a motion to rescind the motion.

[31:23] Motion to appoint. Is it seconded?

[31:25] Second.

[31:26] All those in favor, signify by saying aye.

[31:28] Aye. Aye.

[31:29] So make a motion through the town administrator. Can you find out Mr.

[31:35] Milo's next availability?

[31:36] Yeah.

[31:36] If mind me, does not have anything pressing.

[31:39] It might be an off-cycle meeting.

[31:41] Yep.

[31:41] It may not be the next select board meeting.

[31:43] Maybe we'll set up a Zoom, do it in person, do it as a freestanding one.

[31:48] But that's completely fine.

[31:50] Just to be clear, it has nothing to do against the doctor.

[31:55] Okay.

[31:55] We just want to make sure that everybody who gets appointed has been appointed

[31:58] under the same rules and processes. That's all.

[32:03] Same role I went through.

[32:05] Yeah. Everybody who's been on the committee has gone through it.

[32:08] Thank you.

[32:09] So is there a motion to postpone?

[32:13] I will make a motion to postpone the reappointment-

[32:15] Appointment until the next advertised-

[32:18] Until the next advertised select meeting.

[32:22] And I'll second that.

[32:23] Second.

[32:24] All in favor, signify by saying aye.

[32:25] Aye. Aye.

[32:35] Thank you.

[32:36] So back to what we were doing, I think we should just respond to the

[32:43] speakers as they speak.

[32:44] Okay.

[32:44] So if we want to take it further, we'll just wait for the next round, and then

[32:47] we'll answer those questions. But I'm just going to follow up with the chief on

[32:53] some of the things you said as far as our stewardship to the town sitting on the

[32:57] side of the table. It's something that I take very serious.

[33:02] Part of the Flock cameras, I do have a little history in public safety and

[33:06] policing. A few things that you'd mentioned was hackers.

[33:11] And I don't put any faith in anybody that's purposefully trying to

[33:16] hack anything of ours for the purpose of our information.

[33:21] The town servers try to get hacked, the hospitals get hacked, banks get hacked,

[33:27] everyone gets hacked. And the amount of information that you're getting out of

[33:31] those type of things being hacked is far more important than a license plate and

[33:36] some bumper stickers.

[33:38] The other thing,

[33:41] everyone in this room probably has a smartphone and a smartwatch, and

[33:47] almost every house in town probably has a Ring camera on your door.

[33:51] There's actually one right on the corner of

[33:55] 105 and Mary's Pond Road. The people that live at the house actually post a picture

[33:59] of your vehicle driving through the stop signs because they're sick of people

[34:02] running the stop sign, so they use their Ring camera and post it on Facebook.

[34:05] And there it goes, like, "Jim Smith just drove through the..." With their Ring

[34:09] camera, they're posting you on the internet.

[34:12] But your cell phone, everywhere you go is tracked.

[34:14] Your speed's tracked, how fast you drove, where you went, how long you were there,

[34:18] just right here, smartphone, and it can be hacked.

[34:21] Does that mean they should have a Flock camera at that intersection?

[34:25] I'm sorry?

[34:27] To catch the people going through the stop sign.

[34:29] No, this is just a Ring camera. The purpose of what I'm saying to you is, you're

[34:33] not just being watched by six Flock cameras in town.

[34:36] Well, if it's an issue, though, that would be a place to put one.

[34:38] Well, Flock cameras, they're not there for speeding purposes.

[34:42] They're there for investigatory purposes.

[34:44] You wouldn't be able to use it for a stop sign violation.

[34:47] That's not the purpose of that tool. So you wouldn't be able to use that.

[34:52] So back to what I was saying, when Flock came to us or it was approached to

[34:58] us, you mentioned no expectation of privacy in the public.

[35:04] Everywhere we go, people have their phones and they're taking pictures, and you're

[35:07] being... I went to a concert, and everyone has a video of everybody at the concert.

[35:11] Everywhere you go in public, people are using their tools, and you're being picked

[35:16] up whether you know it or not.

[35:18] That's the technology, right? Look at AI we have now, all the AI capabilities.

[35:23] You can drive by, and AI's going to say, "Adam Murphy just drove by at 2:32 in the

[35:27] afternoon." AI's going to see that.

[35:29] And it's not specific to Flock, but it's just when we're in public and you drive

[35:34] through town, some of the Flock cameras that you're speaking of, they're actually

[35:36] on traffic lights. You don't even know they're there because they're up on top of a

[35:40] traffic light, and you drive through it, and you have no idea.

[35:43] In Rochester, some of the complaints we received were like, "There's these giant

[35:48] black poles with solars." One of them was in front of a traffic light, I think,

[35:52] impeding traffic light. So there were some issues that we tried to address.

[35:57] We had several meetings with the chief to discuss who has access to it.

[36:01] You mentioned you weren't going to bring up abuse of the Flock cameras.

[36:04] Well, I'm going to bring it up because we all see the news.

[36:07] We saw the New Bedford police. People don't have their jobs because they

[36:10] inappropriately went on the Flock camera, they found their significant other, and

[36:15] they tracked them. Well, I think the problem lies a lot further with that person

[36:19] other than the Flock camera because obviously they had something going on, and they

[36:22] probably abused their mobile data terminal.

[36:25] They have computers in their cars that they have access to

[36:29] Every single thing about every one of us.

[36:32] And the chief mentioned how the access flock does a drop-down.

[36:35] Well, police officers can go into your-- run your plate, find out who you are.

[36:39] They can run your BOP. They can see what you did, unless it's sealed.

[36:43] They know everything about you, how many speeding tickets, how many car accidents.

[36:48] The information is endless. So somebody that's abusing power, they shouldn't be a

[36:52] police officer to begin with, never mind just abusing power with flock, because

[36:56] they have so much information that they have the privy to.

[36:59] Those aren't the type of people we want policing Rochester anyway.

[37:03] And that's not the issues that we have here in Rochester.

[37:08] And that's why I wanted to make sure that we had a solid policy and procedure on

[37:12] it.

[37:13] Originally, we had the flock cameras at 31 days. Now it's seven-day retention.

[37:17] So it's only seven days that we keep the material, because we figured that's a big

[37:21] enough window for us to do an immediate investigation if we need to do something

[37:25] like that.

[37:27] And there's only a few people at the PD that are authorized to use the flock.

[37:32] And I audit that every month. I keep good track of it.

[37:37] We didn't have a problem with that.

[37:37] Yeah.

[37:38] That's why I really didn't address it.

[37:39] Yep.

[37:40] But if someone holding an iPhone or a sidewalk, like you're quoting a car and a

[37:45] plate number, but they can't type that into their phone and search for previous

[37:49] sightings of the vehicle scattered all across the nation. There's differences.

[37:53] There's a different location.

[37:54] Well, so E-ZPass does it too, when you think about it.

[37:57] So if you have an E-ZPass in your car, right, and you go through and say you didn't

[38:01] pay your E-ZPass bill or you just go through, all those cameras at every toll

[38:05] throughout the nation, they take a picture of your plate and-- Hold on one second,

[38:08] let me just finish. They take a picture of your plate, and they have your

[38:11] information because then they send you a bill. So they have that.

[38:15] Well, even further than that, Rhode Island, the state of Rhode Island, if you run a

[38:19] red light, you get the ticket in the mail.

[38:20] Yeah.

[38:20] How much do these cameras cost?

[38:23] So we have them on a grant right now.

[38:24] We have them on a grant.

[38:25] So they're free now.

[38:26] Right now they're free, yes. And we're not going to-

[38:29] So the flock group does it, they can get these cameras installed everywhere.

[38:32] And if we don't have the money anymore, if we don't get the grant to keep funding

[38:36] them, we won't keep them up because we don't have the funding in town right now for

[38:39] them.

[38:39] Who gave the grants out? Because they definitely won.

[38:41] They want the surveillance.

[38:43] So back to your cell phone.

[38:45] Just hold on. Just address it through the chair, okay?

[38:48] So we're just going to keep the conversation going.

[38:50] But if you want to speak, just address it through the chair, and he'll recognize

[38:53] you. But back to the cell phone. The reason why I mentioned-

[38:56] I meant-

[38:56] Hold on. The reason why I mentioned your cell phone is how many investigations does

[39:00] the police department use when they're looking for somebody, whether they're

[39:03] elderly, that are missing? They call up Verizon, and

[39:09] they track your information from your cell phone.

[39:13] Using the same process as we use them for flock, we use it for your cell phone.

[39:16] So we can ping your cell phones-

[39:18] Except you need a judge's warrant.

[39:19] No, I don't need a judge's warrant.

[39:21] You don't need a judge's warrant.

[39:21] To do that, I need an exigent circumstance or emergency situation that I explain to

[39:26] the phone company, and then they immediately start pinging your phone.

[39:29] And basically, a supervisor on the police department-

[39:31] Correct

[39:31] ... has the fax over a request to the phone company, which then in return, it gives

[39:36] you the information. They ping your phone, and they can track you with your cell

[39:39] phone.

[39:39] Right.

[39:39] Just the cell phone company.

[39:41] Yes.

[39:42] Just one second.

[39:43] But the cell phone company can't pull DNA. He can.

[39:47] If you committed a crime.

[39:48] Yeah, you can turn off some of the features on your cell phone, though.

[39:53] Mm-hmm.

[39:53] I'm not aware of that, but you can.

[39:54] There's still a way to find you, even if you turn it off.

[39:56] Even if your location is off, the police can still be able to track it.

[39:59] Even if you turn it off, they can find you.

[40:00] Yep. So that was to show you have something in the back that was-

[40:03] There was just a lot that happened. You can just keep going.

[40:06] Oh, okay.

[40:10] I want to know why the residents weren't involved in the decision to bring the

[40:13] flock into town, because I had no idea they were here.

[40:16] And then all of a sudden they're here, and then I'm hearing they're going to put

[40:20] one across the street from my house.

[40:22] And then what, so they're going to watch me 24 hours a day?

[40:26] Are you committing crimes?

[40:27] No, I'm not. But I live in a house, and I go back and forth. It records everybody.

[40:32] It doesn't just say-

[40:33] That's not funny.

[40:35] It's not just criminals. It records everybody.

[40:37] If I-

[40:38] I'm a law-abiding citizen.

[40:40] If I could just speak on that. So I've been doing this job for 25 years.

[40:44] So every time we get a tool, we don't necessarily ask the public if it's all right

[40:49] for law enforcement to get this tool that's going to assist us.

[40:53] That's just not something that we do.

[40:54] Well, can I ask a question? Were you approached by flock or did the city approach

[40:58] you?

[40:58] I was not.

[40:58] Or did you reach out to them?

[40:59] I was not. I've used this flock system in previous PDs I've worked for, and it's

[41:03] helped-

[41:03] So you reached out to them to get a grant to get the flock cameras inside?

[41:06] We applied for a grant to get the flock cameras.

[41:08] Did this go before the select committee?

[41:10] Did not.

[41:11] Why wasn't that happening?

[41:12] Because like I just said, every time we get a tool, we don't go in front of the

[41:16] select committee.

[41:17] But this affects everyone in the town. It's not just the criminals.

[41:20] It's everybody in the town. And we pay tax dollars to pay your salary.

[41:25] We do, yeah.

[41:26] If I'm not mistaken, the flock cameras are on public property.

[41:30] And we also pay taxes for you to maintain those pieces of property, such as the

[41:34] library, right? So don't you think that the people of the town should have had a

[41:40] vote on this to see whether or not we-- to get-- And this should have been

[41:44] addressed in a town meeting where someone could have presented a pro side of it.

[41:48] You know, Russ, you could present your side.

[41:50] Yeah.

[41:50] Someone else could present the other side and let the townspeople present at the

[41:55] meeting, who are taxpayers, make this decision as to whether or not we want these

[41:59] in our town.

[42:00] And I'll be honest, I could have done that. Absolutely.

[42:03] Because I did what I-

[42:05] It's the service of the community

[42:05] ... because I did what I thought was best after doing this job for 25 years and

[42:09] using it numerous different times to help solve crimes and save people's lives.

[42:13] So that's why I chose to do that.

[42:15] Mike, can I address that?

[42:15] Yeah.

[42:16] We

[42:18] apply for many grants, many grants.

[42:21] Sure.

[42:22] And most of them,

[42:25] if I'm not incorrect, we don't go to town meeting.

[42:30] We apply for the grant. If we receive the grant, we're in the process of

[42:36] applying for a new fire truck.

[42:40] But so the townspeople pay for the fire truck.

[42:42] No, because the grant is not the town's money.

[42:47] It either comes from the federal, state.

[42:51] It's not coming out of the town's coffers.

[42:54] But is it sometimes in conjunction with taxpayers' dollars?

[42:57] Because I know I've paid in the past for police vehicles, fire vehicles.

[43:02] Hold on one second. So to your point, anything that we spend taxpayer money on has

[43:06] to go to town meeting. Anything.

[43:09] Flock cameras, we haven't spent any taxpayer money.

[43:12] But this was taken by the-

[43:13] Hold on. Hold on a second.

[43:16] Hold on. I'll let you rip up what I'm going to say, but I want to mirror something

[43:20] that the police chief said. I want everybody to just think about this.

[43:24] If we have to go to the town meeting for every tool that's going to either benefit

[43:30] or not benefit the town, we wouldn't have tasers, we wouldn't have new AEDs,

[43:36] we wouldn't have the vests that put on the police officers.

[43:40] We wouldn't have the LUCAS device in the ambulance that does automatic CPR on you

[43:44] because we got a grant for it. We bought it through a grant.

[43:47] We didn't get it, but it's saving you life on a CPR.

[43:52] So those specific things like flock, it's a tool that the police department brings

[43:56] to the town, just like their mobile data terminals that are in their police cars.

[44:01] Every one of them has a computer in it that's $10,000 a computer.

[44:04] We get them under a grant. We don't go to the town and say, "Can we put new

[44:08] computers that are going to run your information?

[44:09] We're going to have all of your information in it.

[44:13] Is it okay to do that?" Well, it's the uniform that the police need, the tools they

[44:17] need to do policing. It's the standard of today's policing practice.

[44:21] So when we send all of our officers out for training, they're trained, they're

[44:25] certified. In order for them to even use those tablets, they have to pass tests

[44:29] through the FBI. Those all are things we can't go to town meeting and say-

[44:33] And some of those are privacy issues as well.

[44:35] Wait, wait.

[44:37] That's exactly what I was just going to say.

[44:38] Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[44:40] None of that stuff invades my privacy.

[44:42] Wait.

[44:44] This is what I will say, and I'm just one individual.

[44:47] I believe in that these flock cameras were installed, that the public conversation

[44:53] that was being had, that you're bringing up today, was not into the forefront.

[44:58] And so while when you and your group asked to

[45:04] speak today, this committee and this select board could have said, "We'll take your

[45:08] letter. We'll put it into public correspondence, and we'll move on." That would've

[45:12] been the wrong thing to do, but it could have been done, and that's not what

[45:17] happened. We're having a conversation today-

[45:19] Thank you

[45:20] ... based upon

[45:22] your claims. And we're having that conversation.

[45:26] So most certainly, we are

[45:29] happy to have this public conversation.

[45:31] I think as an individual,

[45:34] I was not aware of the extent, and hindsight is 20/20.

[45:40] With that being said, in terms of town meeting, town meeting is the legislative

[45:44] entity, the residents of the town, which sole purpose is to-

[45:51] Find funding sources and to make zoning changes.

[45:54] This is a policy decision that needs to, most certainly, this is not a town

[45:58] authority. Now, for this board to make a new policy, obviously, they need

[46:04] to understand what their constituents want. But town meeting is for funding.

[46:09] Town meeting has no authority

[46:14] about contract,

[46:16] it only is funding sources. Now, and that's the conversation I had with town

[46:21] council. That does not mean that the residents do not have a voice.

[46:26] This is the voice that you have, most certainly.

[46:28] But if there are other towns that are doing Flock-based

[46:35] citizen petitions, for example. My understanding, and I'm not an attorney, is that

[46:39] in the town of Fairhaven, that will be on the next agenda.

[46:42] They could defund Flock, but there's no

[46:47] operational budget going towards that.

[46:49] So what that is is just-

[46:52] Flock.

[46:52] What that is is just people having a non-binding vote of just in discussion.

[46:58] And so,

[47:00] I think what we're doing now, whether it should happen, whether or not is getting

[47:06] insight.

[47:07] And we appreciate your input as well.

[47:09] Sounds like it's falling on deaf ears.

[47:10] Yeah.

[47:13] I don't know. To be honest, we've only heard-

[47:16] It's a policy

[47:18] issue

[47:18] ... the people who presented, and we've only heard one individual, so I don't know

[47:21] how that is falling on deaf ears. We haven't even heard the full presentation yet.

[47:24] Yeah, I'd like to read my portion because I think it speaks to a lot of what we're

[47:29] trying to say, because there's a lot of things that people don't realize that Flock

[47:33] company has capabilities of doing and what they're actually doing with practice

[47:37] now, which really does affect our

[47:40] personal privacy and civility. So

[47:47] that's our biggest concern. So on that note, I'd like to speak about it.

[47:50] Good evening.

[47:52] Yes, I was getting to that. Everybody said good evening.

[47:55] My name is Patty Fenner, and I live at 20 Fenner Lane in Rochester.

[47:59] I'm going to speak about function creep. That's a new terminology.

[48:03] I don't know if anyone's ever heard of it.

[48:04] But this is what Flock is doing with all of our data, whether we know it or not.

[48:11] So data is information. Today, we are collecting exponentially more data than ever

[48:16] before, while simultaneously developing AI capable of finding patterns humans

[48:21] would never even notice or maybe even consider in our lifetimes.

[48:26] Our question about Flock cameras and other ALPRs should never just be,

[48:32] "What does this camera know about me?" It should be, "What happens when this camera

[48:36] becomes one more piece of everything else that knows something about me?" The Flock

[48:42] company's currently testing a somewhat dystopian capability.

[48:45] Cameras that can track driving patterns without capturing the license plate, a

[48:49] name, or any connection to a crime.

[48:52] The company calls it anonymized data collection. Why does this matter?

[48:57] If you track the same vehicle, make, model, color, route, time of day, you do not

[49:02] need a plate to identify the driver. You just need enough data points.

[49:07] Pattern recognition combined with the power of AI does the rest.

[49:12] For example, if a vehicle passes a Flock camera in our town, it is recorded, as the

[49:16] chief said earlier.

[49:18] That information is stored in a local domain on a server in the police station.

[49:23] Correct me if I'm wrong.

[49:24] You're correct.

[49:25] It is also uploaded to a Flock database.

[49:28] We have no control over what happens to the data collected by Flock cameras in

[49:32] town. Absolutely none. The company's boilerplate contract, which the police said

[49:38] was signed by the Rochester Police Department, correct?

[49:41] Correct.

[49:41] Has a clause letting Flock keep the data to sell for their own profit to other

[49:46] outside users. That data is worth money to them.

[49:51] It starts with public safety. This is how they tout Flock cameras.

[49:56] Then other uses are discovered and exploited.

[49:59] Across the country, cities are increasingly deploying these cameras to enforce

[50:03] minor civil infractions and traffic violations in a shift that has now been coined

[50:07] as function creep. For years, Flock explicitly promised its technology would not be

[50:13] used for traffic enforcement, but the company quietly scrubbed that guarantee from

[50:17] its public materials in recent times.

[50:20] Today, its network integrates speed camera data and feeds that allow for automated

[50:25] camera-only citations,

[50:28] I'm sorry, to be mailed directly to drivers without a physical police officer

[50:33] present. This is just the beginning of the way your personal data is being mined

[50:38] for usage. Additionally, while Flock's current official stance is that it is not

[50:42] used for auto insurance purposes, industry commentary and privacy reports note that

[50:47] ALPR data from private networks can and has been sold or made available to

[50:53] commercial consumers, including insurers.

[50:58] How would your data be used by an insurance company? It looks something like this.

[51:02] You file a claim for damage, say, to the rear quarter panel of your vehicle due to

[51:05] a recent accident. The insurance adjuster starts looking for previous images of

[51:10] your vehicle via Flock data. Subsequently, your claim is reduced, or possibly even

[51:15] denied, because a shadow from the Flock camera image made it look like there was

[51:19] previous damage to the quarter panel.

[51:21] So they get to make these decisions based on just looking at images from Flock

[51:26] cameras. They shouldn't even have access to this data.

[51:29] They should have to do proper investigations and find out what really happened.

[51:35] Moving forward, another powerful member of the business sector discovers another

[51:38] usage for the data, and yet another, and I've been reading about a lot of these,

[51:41] and it's very scary, to say the least.

[51:44] As AI becomes more powerful, one cannot imagine what it can do with all the data

[51:48] collected from millions of individuals across the country.

[51:51] But you can be sure there are businesses out there looking to capitalize on how to

[51:55] utilize and monetize it. Before you know it, you're living in an Orwellian world of

[52:00] the book "1984," where Big Brother is watching your every move every time your

[52:05] image is captured on Flock cameras.

[52:07] It may seem far-fetched at this point in time, but just a short time ago, we

[52:11] thought it was impossible to create information superhighway via computers.

[52:15] The bottom line is, a mass surveillance network built without proper oversight is a

[52:20] weapon waiting to take away our privacy, civil liberties, and ultimately our

[52:25] freedom. So we should be asking ourselves, is this what we really want for our

[52:29] democracy in the town of Rochester? Thank you.

[52:40] I think we have one more speaker, right?

[52:42] Yeah.

[52:43] Any?

[52:48] Help us,

[52:58] Lynn.

[53:04] Flock cannot be relied upon to be truthful.

[53:08] Contracts are made to be honored to partner

[53:12] with parties of service standards.

[53:15] Time after time, Flock has not honored these contracts. I'll cite some examples.

[53:20] And most of you probably already know.

[53:23] The Boston Police Department had a contract with

[53:29] Flock, and one of the main tenants was moved out of share.

[53:35] They put the system in. There were about 25 cameras.

[53:40] When they initially set it up, everything seemed all right with the police.

[53:45] They worked on their part and said everything was okay.

[53:48] Within a few days, they found out that all across the country, other law

[53:53] enforcement agencies were getting hold of their data.

[53:59] This was a pilot program.

[54:02] Sure.

[54:02] And they canceled the program. The Boston

[54:07] Police did. So

[54:11] that was a main component,

[54:14] and somebody, evidently, the city said that

[54:19] Flock deactivated that setting, allowing unauthorized access to the data.

[54:25] Last month, Flock Safety offered to sell five years of speed and

[54:31] traffic data to the city of Sheboygan, Wisconsin.

[54:35] That means that Flock cameras were tracking driving speeds and movement patterns,

[54:40] something the city was not fully aware of. The city canceled said contract.

[54:47] In Oshkosh, Wisconsin, the city council met with a Flock rep- Chief informed

[54:53] information security officer. They asked him if the system

[54:58] created a pattern or a heat map of individuals' movement through tracking of their

[55:03] vehicles. He told them no.

[55:07] The city granted the contract, and then within a few days found out that that

[55:12] wasn't true, that they did track them that way.

[55:17] Down in Florida, St. Lucie County,

[55:23] they were dismantling the FLOK camera system and then found that there were 14 FLOK

[55:27] cameras that they were unaware of,

[55:31] not registered. They found out they owned three of them, but the other 11 they

[55:36] still don't know. And this raises huge concerns of who had access to this kind of

[55:42] data. It's very sensitive data.

[55:47] And I know somebody said that cabins, we didn't particularly care for them.

[55:53] But FLOK consistent cameras do not perform facial recognition.

[55:59] Hackers were able to retrieve an unencrypted encryption key stored

[56:05] directly on the hardware. This critical flaw allowed investigations from Wired and

[56:11] 404 Media to analyze thousands of videos and logs showing that a single camera

[56:16] recorded a staggering 1.6 images of 50,000

[56:22] vehicles over 21 days. That's a staggering amount.

[56:26] And all aside,

[56:30] where is this stuff stored? It's stored in the cloud.

[56:33] Well, and the cloud

[56:36] is... Let me see if I can get this here.

[56:43] Where the cloud lives. When you store files or run apps in the cloud, those files

[56:48] and apps live on a physical hard drive inside massive data centers.

[56:54] Just look, we don't need to know about BlueJ.

[56:57] And this sounds like FLOK is contributing a huge amount of this type of

[57:02] data. Beyond merely tracking cars, the analysis of the leaked files

[57:07] revealed that the camera's computer vision software is explicitly configured to

[57:13] identify people, bicycles, and minor details like bumper stickers and graphics.

[57:19] This challenges the conventional narrative that these cameras are simple,

[57:24] non-intrusive traffic monitors.

[57:27] Instead, the breach provides concrete evidence of an incredibly granular

[57:33] surveillance system that processes massive amounts of daily

[57:39] public movement, raising serious concerns over the lack of security shielding these

[57:45] devices and computers across communities across the country like Rochester.

[57:51] One last thing, and then I'll be done.

[57:54] I want to quote the East Ridge Water Chief of Police, Michael J. Manson.

[57:58] "Cameras can be a valuable public safety tool.

[58:03] However, any technology, we must have the confidence

[58:10] of the community. Residents have raised legitimate questions about privacy, access

[58:15] to data, oversight, and safe passages to prevent misuse.

[58:21] Being a successful police department is not simply about having the most tools or

[58:26] the newest technology. It is about maintaining the trust and confidence of the

[58:31] people we serve."

[58:36] And to piggyback on that, there are 29 Massachusetts cities and towns that have

[58:40] either canceled or not renewed their contracts with FLOK Security.

[58:45] They didn't like because of that text.

[58:47] I actually have copies for all of you.

[58:50] From what I said, no, what they said is they did their own research.

[58:55] Thank you so much.

[58:56] So that's a bumper sticker that I created, and I'm really proud of, and it

[59:02] promotes the First Amendment, which is part of the right to petition, which is

[59:06] included in-

[59:09] We're really excited everybody came in, too.

[59:12] We don't really get to make decisions on Select Board.

[59:14] I want to see this one.

[59:15] So it's kind of nice to have dialogue with the community.

[59:18] Although sometimes it might seem back and forth and-

[59:22] But that's democracy.

[59:23] But-

[59:24] Yes. Great

[59:24] ... the best part about it is we get a feel of the community when you guys do show

[59:28] up and participate in our meetings.

[59:31] Because a lot of times people ask, "How did this decision get made?" Well, I

[59:35] encourage all of you to go on the Select Board agenda and watch all of our

[59:39] meetings. I think Mr. Varlet's probably the only one that is there every single

[59:44] meeting.

[59:45] Yeah.

[59:45] That's it.

[59:46] Thanks.

[59:47] So when we have discussions about FLOK cameras or issues with the town, it's

[59:53] the three of us. Right?

[59:56] And then when there's an issue, when someone thinks their expectation of privacy is

[59:59] breached, then the cameras come down and here we are on this side of the table,

[1:00:03] right? So I can assure you that the three of us, the town administrator, everybody

[1:00:08] working for the town, we have the best interest for everybody at our hearts when we

[1:00:12] make decisions. It's a lot easier to make decisions when we get that back-and-forth

[1:00:17] dialogue other than not having any input, and then the three of us toss it around,

[1:00:22] and we use it. So it did not fall on deaf ears.

[1:00:26] Tonight's discussion did not fall on deaf ears.

[1:00:28] I'm sure it's not going to stop and die here.

[1:00:32] We have our homework to do as far as even the contract goes.

[1:00:36] Town council's actually been working on that contract that you had mentioned, how

[1:00:40] it gets signed, who signs it, what does it actually say, is it voidable?

[1:00:44] Can we change it?

[1:00:46] And is this tool something that we're going to continue or not continue?

[1:00:51] And this discussion was being had long before tonight's meeting, whether or not

[1:00:54] those FLOK cameras were going to stay as a functioning piece of the community of

[1:00:59] Rochester.

[1:01:01] Something that I struggle with personally is we take the 601 out of Rochester, and

[1:01:06] we've had some really good saves come out of that tool, right?

[1:01:12] We have.

[1:01:13] They've worked.

[1:01:15] But then again, I

[1:01:17] use risk versus reward. Is having those cameras worth those saves

[1:01:23] versus the way you feel about your privacy and your data stored and all those

[1:01:28] things? So that's a balance. We have to balance the tools that we're using to make

[1:01:34] everybody feel like

[1:01:37] they're not being violated and such.

[1:01:42] Other ideas have been used in the past.

[1:01:43] Correct. Yeah. And I mentioned the hackers, right? We're always dealing with that.

[1:01:48] I mean, always. When we serve as in passwords, I mean, it's town emails we hit,

[1:01:52] too.

[1:01:53] It's not just like someone just hacking the town phone and getting information.

[1:01:56] This information goes to databases that send to AI centers-

[1:02:00] Yeah. Yeah

[1:02:01] ... and then that is being sold-

[1:02:04] Sure

[1:02:04] ... to FLOK camera companies who give the highest bidders for whatever information

[1:02:08] they're looking for, and it's monetized. That's the problem.

[1:02:12] Sure. And again, I have no idea.

[1:02:14] The security breach part is one thing.

[1:02:16] We as a Select Board have no idea when we're coming up with these tools-

[1:02:19] No, but I am serious

[1:02:20] ... that someone's selling the pictures of your cars to the insurance companies for

[1:02:26] car accidents. They're using that.

[1:02:29] I think that is the biggest stretch-

[1:02:31] They're tracking your purchases, too

[1:02:32] ... I've ever heard of an insurance... Just my personal opinion is I don't think...

[1:02:36] I think that's ridiculous that insurance companies can use that data to say you

[1:02:39] didn't crash your car.

[1:02:41] They can use it for whole different reasons.

[1:02:41] But that's another conversation. I guess it's really unbelievable. But yeah.

[1:02:48] Hi, Lorraine Thompson, 192 Petula Road. I'm a lifelong resident of Rochester.

[1:02:54] I'm going to throw out a statement for everyone to think about.

[1:02:58] It's not that I'm for FLOK or not for FLOK.

[1:03:02] If FLOK is not in Rochester, will you only drive in Rochester?

[1:03:06] Because everyone around us is getting some sort of FLOK.

[1:03:12] But they're also getting rid of them.

[1:03:14] Yes.

[1:03:15] Town's getting rid of the FLOK.

[1:03:16] Massachusetts alone is about a dozen.

[1:03:19] Because some of them have been here before and after.

[1:03:21] Hold on. We just have to keep the meeting in order and go through the chair, so any

[1:03:27] discussion has to go through the chair.

[1:03:30] But to everyone's point,

[1:03:33] everyone has a

[1:03:35] one way or another, like, "I support FLOK," or, "I don't support FLOK.

[1:03:39] These are the reasons why. These aren't the reasons why." But again, at the end of

[1:03:42] the day, it has to be in the best interest of the entire community, not just-

[1:03:47] Excuse me. Right now. No. Just-

[1:03:51] I'm not a resident of Rochester. I've been marrying into associates.

[1:03:56] I come through Rochester three times a week because

[1:04:01] And what my concern-

[1:04:02] Keep it to the trust

[1:04:03] ... what my, I'll do it short so I don't delay it.

[1:04:06] What my concern is, is I go directly 105 to Walnut Lane, which means I

[1:04:12] go through one of the Flock cameras, going to my daughter's house, going home, or

[1:04:19] sometimes also going to Rochester High School to pick up the kids, bring them home.

[1:04:24] My point is, I'm a law-abiding citizen. I have never been arrested.

[1:04:29] I've never received a speeding ticket. I have a clean record.

[1:04:34] And I think it is that way. However, this type of surveillance honestly

[1:04:40] frightens the hell out of me because my information now is being recorded six to

[1:04:45] eight times, three times a week,

[1:04:49] 24 times a week. My car is being recorded as going through that stop.

[1:04:56] I don't want my insurance company to eventually know that. I don't want...

[1:05:00] It's nobody's business. That's my private information.

[1:05:04] And I understand what you're saying

[1:05:06] about that it assists

[1:05:12] drug prevention, crime. In those instances, I'm really torn because I can see that

[1:05:18] there is a benefit in some cases, but it doesn't appear to me that where the data

[1:05:24] is stored, the fact that it could be sold and is being sold, that frightens the

[1:05:30] hell out of me.

[1:05:31] Well, interestingly enough, what I hear you saying, correct me if I'm wrong, is

[1:05:35] because it's a private entity that's storing the data and it's not a federal

[1:05:40] agency's camera system that's only accessed by federal law enforcement and local

[1:05:44] law enforcement, is what's the challenge here.

[1:05:47] That's what it seems like the census is.

[1:05:50] But if you can purchase information from the database, then

[1:05:55] couldn't-

[1:05:56] Well, again, I have no idea if that's accurate. I have no idea.

[1:05:59] And I'm wondering if it is.

[1:06:01] I have no idea how you would even...

[1:06:05] I'm sorry.

[1:06:05] If it wasn't a third-party entity-

[1:06:07] Right

[1:06:08] ... looking at everybody in this room all the time-

[1:06:11] Exactly

[1:06:11] ... and you folks-

[1:06:12] Exactly

[1:06:12] ... people wouldn't be so uncomfortable with it maybe.

[1:06:15] If it was just the town running the camera, traffic enforcement at the intersection

[1:06:20] from the accidents all the time, maybe instead of Flock, maybe you could use a

[1:06:25] camera at that intersection because I, myself almost got hit by a semi because the

[1:06:30] guy didn't bother to stop at Walnut Lane and Mary's Farm.

[1:06:35] I didn't know that the crime level in Rochester was such that we needed to keep

[1:06:40] track of who was coming through town all the time.

[1:06:43] Yeah.

[1:06:44] It seems to be a little bit overkill.

[1:06:46] There's a lot of crime that comes in and out of Rochester-

[1:06:48] In and out?

[1:06:48] ... that people that don't know about.

[1:06:50] Right. Well-

[1:06:51] I didn't know that

[1:06:51] ... yeah, a lot

[1:06:51] ... it seems that the way you speak about it, that cameras are abundant enough-

[1:06:57] Yeah

[1:06:57] ... that it wouldn't make sense to add more cameras.

[1:07:00] So the cameras that we've used, right?

[1:07:03] I know what they do.

[1:07:03] They've shaved off hours, days of investigations-

[1:07:07] I know

[1:07:07] ... and they helped save one person's life that we know about that was hours away

[1:07:11] from dying.

[1:07:12] Wow.

[1:07:14] Period. And if we didn't have these cameras, he would've died in the woods, 100%.

[1:07:21] In a car accident?

[1:07:22] Nope.

[1:07:24] So how does the Flock-

[1:07:24] Mental health. It was a mental health issue

[1:07:26] ... but how does the Flock camera-

[1:07:27] It was a mental health issue

[1:07:28] ... because all it can be, it can only track through the Flock camera's

[1:07:32] web.

[1:07:35] And just to add, and I know if you have it in your car and you have a cell phone in

[1:07:39] your pocket, that data is getting sold everywhere all the time.

[1:07:43] If you don't think Big Brother can locate you, Big Brother's locating you all the

[1:07:47] time.

[1:07:48] That's the point. That's why we want to know.

[1:07:49] Three times.

[1:07:50] Wait.

[1:07:51] Excuse me, sir. You didn't identify yourself.

[1:07:55] Oh, I'm John Murdoch. I live in town.

[1:07:58] Mm-hmm. Your address?

[1:08:00] New Bedford Road.

[1:08:04] Could we have a look at the recording?

[1:08:07] I think it's old.

[1:08:07] No, I just... I wanted to thank you all for listening to us.

[1:08:11] I wanted to thank you all for, especially for being selectmen people, because I

[1:08:15] know you put a lot of time into running our town to keep us safe.

[1:08:22] So, I guess I thank you with your pay.

[1:08:27] I know.

[1:08:27] But I really appreciate how much you do on your own time for the town.

[1:08:33] Yeah.

[1:08:34] I hope that, yes,

[1:08:36] the police chief has a point. This is a tool, they can use it.

[1:08:40] But I think that this tool is a bridge too far as far as our

[1:08:45] privacy and civil liberties are concerned, and I hope that you weigh

[1:08:52] both sides. So thank you.

[1:08:53] Well, absolutely. That's what we're going to do. Mr. Sprolet.

[1:08:57] Thank you. My name's Don Sprolet, 305 Bradley Hill Road. Mr.

[1:09:02] Chairman, I'm addressing you and the board. The three of you are elected.

[1:09:08] Part of your job is to make appointments throughout town, which includes

[1:09:14] the police department. So you appoint someone like Chief Assad to run the police

[1:09:19] department. They have a certain amount of tools in their toolbox to keep us safe.

[1:09:25] If eventually you choose to remove the one tool called Flock,

[1:09:32] you're doing a disservice to the chief and also

[1:09:37] all the law-abiding citizens here in town.

[1:09:40] Now, the lady said she never got a speeding ticket.

[1:09:44] I have gotten more than my share- ... but I'm not afraid of the Flock cameras.

[1:09:49] Yes.

[1:09:49] But if eventually the Flock cameras go away,

[1:09:54] I just want you to consider the day that something happens in town.

[1:10:00] Probably the worst call the chief could get is,

[1:10:04] we have a abducted child in town. That has to be the worst thing that could

[1:10:10] possibly happen, and don't think it doesn't happen in Rochester because it has and

[1:10:14] it could.

[1:10:16] Something like that, and I'm sure the chief will agree, that minutes and hours make

[1:10:21] the biggest difference. And by having that tool in his toolbox, they can quickly...

[1:10:28] If they're looking for me, they know my plate number.

[1:10:31] They know I left town and head in the direction of

[1:10:37] Marion or Mattapoisett. So once again, I'm hoping that eventually when you make a

[1:10:42] decision, the decision is to keep the tool in the toolbox for the guy you count

[1:10:48] on it. Thank you.

[1:10:49] I hope they said something like that when they said it was a toolbox.

[1:10:52] Wait a minute. Is there anybody else that hasn't spoken?

[1:10:57] I just had a question if you don't mind. I have a question. Yes.

[1:11:00] When is the grant...

[1:11:03] Sara Granetti, 57 Taylor Road. When does the grant money expire

[1:11:09] so that we can then

[1:11:12] bring this together in a town meeting setting and agree that the town wants this as

[1:11:17] opposed to just the chief of police wants it?

[1:11:22] I think-

[1:11:23] I think we have maybe another year.

[1:11:25] I'd have to look at the-

[1:11:26] Okay.

[1:11:27] Regardless of funding, okay?

[1:11:29] Mm-hmm.

[1:11:29] If the community itself, the majority of the community comes to the select board

[1:11:33] and says this is a problem, you don't need a town meeting.

[1:11:36] Mm.

[1:11:36] Well, we did.

[1:11:37] Right? Let's make that clear. What you needed to do was come here tonight.

[1:11:42] Yeah.

[1:11:42] We're gathering all this information. We're going to circle back and talk about it.

[1:11:46] We're going to meet with the police chief.

[1:11:47] We're going to actually do some investigation of the Flock ourself internally, go

[1:11:51] down to the town administrator to do a research with town council to verify all the

[1:11:56] statements that you said are accurate and fair.

[1:11:59] Just because you come to a meeting with a packet full of research that we did at

[1:12:02] home, I mean, I've Googled my health and that's not a great tool.

[1:12:06] So we're going to have the professionals and town council go over all of your

[1:12:11] concerns, all the information that you're going to leave us tonight.

[1:12:15] We're going to address it. We're going to meet with the chief, and then we'll come

[1:12:18] back as a select board and make a decision on what's going to be best, whether the

[1:12:23] information is fair and accurate, and if it's what is going to be the tempo of the

[1:12:27] town. We'll have another select board meeting.

[1:12:30] We'll open it up to the public for public comment.

[1:12:33] We'll duly advertise it so that we can get everyone that wants to come, hopefully

[1:12:37] more than that's here now, and then we'll make the best decision.

[1:12:41] Is it possible to have a petition that's signed by several people living in town?

[1:12:45] That's already-

[1:12:46] Some people don't know

[1:12:48] That already happened. That's why we're here today.

[1:12:49] We received a group of citizens, I don't know off the top of my head, 25, 30-

[1:12:55] There's about 20 people that signed the letter asking questions-

[1:12:58] And so-

[1:12:58] ... most of which were answered

[1:13:00] ... and so by that reason alone is why we're here.

[1:13:03] The only thing-

[1:13:04] But if you get, let's say 500 signatures from the town, is that substantial enough

[1:13:09] to sway your decision?

[1:13:10] You certainly can definitely go out and gather signatures and send information.

[1:13:15] That's what we're here to do. If we hear from the public that it's not in the best

[1:13:18] interest of what you people want, then that's how we make our decisions.

[1:13:22] We work for you. You vote for us. We listen to you.

[1:13:25] We vote the way the town wants us to vote. It's not how Adam Murphy wants it.

[1:13:30] I have my personal opinion on Flock, but if the majority of the community doesn't

[1:13:34] want Flock, then we don't have Flock.

[1:13:36] If we want to see the majority of the community, we should have seen such a bigger

[1:13:41] meeting.

[1:13:41] That would be a public meeting, right?

[1:13:44] You come to a public meeting, we have a meeting, and the three of us will determine

[1:13:50] the way the tempo of the community is speaking.

[1:13:53] It's just like-

[1:13:54] No, in terms of signatures. How many signatures would be the majority of the town

[1:13:57] then?

[1:13:58] Myself personally, you're asking?

[1:14:00] I mean, sure.

[1:14:01] There's no bylaw. There's no-

[1:14:02] There's no analysis

[1:14:03] ... there's no number that says, but if 500 people sign a petition saying that

[1:14:08] Flock is a problem, that's a lot of...

[1:14:12] 900 people vote in an election in this town.

[1:14:14] If you get 500 signatures-

[1:14:16] Yeah.

[1:14:17] The young lady in the back.

[1:14:22] That'll be good to do.

[1:14:23] Hi, Jennifer Threedenody, 57 Miller Road, Rochester.

[1:14:27] I did also extensive research on this since before I saw the first Flock camera pop

[1:14:32] up in March, which I did contact Chief Assad about.

[1:14:36] And I definitely just want to say, in terms of AI, I think we're all extremely

[1:14:41] naive to think that a constantly growing technology like AI

[1:14:46] being used like this doesn't put people at risk.

[1:14:49] I think everyone really needs to do their own research on the limits or, most

[1:14:52] importantly, lack thereof, of artificial intelligence itself.

[1:14:57] I also want to emphasize the fact that nobody here is questioning the Rochester

[1:15:00] Police Department. We are questioning the intentions of a billionaire and his

[1:15:05] billionaire company wanting to install a mass surveillance system because

[1:15:11] ask yourselves, why would a billionaire company where normally people put all of

[1:15:16] their money into it, right? And they live off their-- That's what they thrive off

[1:15:21] of is this constant consumerism. Why would a company

[1:15:27] put all of their money into putting these cameras up

[1:15:33] everywhere in the United States? That includes the Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico.

[1:15:40] I saw one when I was in the Virgin Islands. It's really sad.

[1:15:43] Multiple.

[1:15:44] Multiple, actually, yeah.

[1:15:47] And then lastly, I just want to say directly to you, Chief Assad, I really hope you

[1:15:53] can listen to the information that was said tonight because it was really, really

[1:15:57] unfortunate

[1:16:00] for me to hear you specifically say that no amount of information would change your

[1:16:05] mind or research. And that is all hopefully on a recorded call.

[1:16:08] That is not just a witness statement.

[1:16:13] That was very unfortunate to hear that no amount of knowledge or research presented

[1:16:18] would change your minds. And that also, you said that any misuses by the camera

[1:16:23] were not your responsibility, and that was also really upsetting to hear.

[1:16:28] Again, all on a recorded call as well.

[1:16:31] And again, it's about the cameras. It's about the mass surveillance.

[1:16:35] It's about the data.

[1:16:36] It's about the-- Yes.

[1:16:37] The database that is undeletable-

[1:16:39] Yeah

[1:16:39] ... that is now in Flock's hands.

[1:16:41] It is also undeletable. I also encourage everyone to also...

[1:16:44] I had it right here, but then that was one of the first things that one of these

[1:16:48] very well-researched women read about the

[1:16:54] Flock safety contract themselves here, where they just put it in the fine print

[1:16:59] saying that they never have to delete your data.

[1:17:02] They call it aggregated data because they say that it has no identifying traits,

[1:17:07] but that does not mean that they don't know who you are, and that anyone who

[1:17:11] accesses the data does not know who you are.

[1:17:15] As a young person, I've grown up with the

[1:17:19] growing technology of AI. By my senior year at high school, we had to run our

[1:17:24] papers through an AI system to make sure that people weren't using AI on their

[1:17:29] papers. And it's come a lot farther since then.

[1:17:33] It's something that AI developers themselves are saying, "Limit us." But that's not

[1:17:38] happening. That's what we're trying to do right here and in other towns all over

[1:17:43] the United States that are getting rid of this. We have to be the stops.

[1:17:49] And lastly, I just want to say that

[1:17:52] the fact that we are tracked in so many other ways is not a reason

[1:17:59] to put that in place in any other way.

[1:18:01] That is the rhetoric of every failure in history ever.

[1:18:07] So-

[1:18:09] Yeah

[1:18:09] ... I would really encourage you to take that out of your repertoire for future

[1:18:14] conversations about this, because this will be an ongoing conversation. Thank you.

[1:18:17] Thank you.

[1:18:25] I think some of our conversation was taken out of context, what you just said right

[1:18:28] there, but that's fine.

[1:18:29] Well, I-

[1:18:31] Hold on, hold on. It's my turn.

[1:18:34] I want to tell everybody in this room that even if you decide that you don't want

[1:18:38] these cameras in your town and they are taken down, I will still make sure that we

[1:18:42] provide the best policing service that any town can get because Rochester deserves

[1:18:48] it. So no matter what happens with the cameras-

[1:18:51] We're not questioning you.

[1:18:54] Yeah.

[1:18:54] And I'm just telling you-

[1:18:56] I hear you

[1:18:56] ... no matter what happens with the cameras, we are still going to provide the best

[1:18:59] police service around. Period.

[1:19:03] And you were doing that before Flock.

[1:19:06] And you both are the same.

[1:19:07] Before Flock, you were doing that.

[1:19:08] We were always doing that.

[1:19:09] Yes.

[1:19:09] That's right. Yeah.

[1:19:11] Is there anybody else that hasn't spoken that has anything to say? Mr.

[1:19:16] Peters, just one thing. I think that much to Andrea's chagrin, I'm very middle of

[1:19:22] the road type of person, and I try to make as many people happy as possible.

[1:19:26] And one thing I'm taking as a consensus out of the conversation is

[1:19:33] that there probably is a conversation that everyone as residents should have with

[1:19:36] their legislative delegates, with their state rep and their state senator for some

[1:19:41] additional regulation, whether you feel that it shouldn't exist, or whether you

[1:19:45] feel that there are guardrails that need to be set to make this tool a

[1:19:51] worthwhile entity in the toolbox.

[1:19:54] So everyone has individual opinions on that, then that's fine.

[1:19:58] But I would most certainly suggest that you reach out to the state representatives.

[1:20:02] I know that there are conversations being happening on Beacon Hill about putting

[1:20:06] additional regulations for the use of said cameras.

[1:20:13] Or anywhere they want to.

[1:20:14] Sure, anywhere.

[1:20:14] And in terms of AI as a whole.

[1:20:15] Well, fine. But just in terms of Flock cameras, the use of a warrant, this or that,

[1:20:19] whether that is beneficial or not, I know that those conversations are actively

[1:20:23] happening on Beacon Hill.

[1:20:26] So I'd like to take that together. We can have our cake and eat it too over time.

[1:20:29] And so I think that's the mechanism to get that done.

[1:20:34] A much more macro view than a micro one.

[1:20:38] That's all I got for you.

[1:20:39] So there actually is a bill in the Massachusetts legislature.

[1:20:43] Yes.

[1:20:43] It's H375 that they're working on.

[1:20:48] It says that there should just be 14 days.

[1:20:50] ALPRs should only store stuff for 14 days.

[1:20:54] It is limited for law enforcement and investigation purposes only, and it bars the

[1:21:00] law enforcement from accessing another agency's data without a search warrant.

[1:21:05] So that's what's up in Boston right now.

[1:21:10] But they take them forever to pass that.

[1:21:13] Yep.

[1:21:13] And there is something, I think, also in Washington where they're working on

[1:21:18] something to get anything passed there.

[1:21:21] Like we used to say in New York, they're going to have to congress with

[1:21:25] it.

[1:21:26] Thank you.

[1:21:27] Interestingly enough, just thinking about all the tools that we have as police

[1:21:31] officers in the town, the majority of them, i.e., their whole data terminals,

[1:21:37] all their information that's stored, their RMV, it's all regulated by government.

[1:21:44] So something that's interesting about the Flock cameras that after all the

[1:21:47] conversations we have and the back-and-forth dialogue is these cameras are

[1:21:53] being used as part of the police department that's not regulated by the government.

[1:21:57] It's regulated by a private entity, which in fact has the ability or doesn't have

[1:22:02] the ability-

[1:22:04] To disseminate that information.

[1:22:06] Whereas all of your other information that the police department has and uses in

[1:22:10] the capacity of their job is regulated by the government.

[1:22:15] And that being said, hold on. That being said, I think this board should take a

[1:22:20] vote tonight whether we either postpone the use of Flock cameras until we get to

[1:22:24] the bottom of this, versus just letting them run until we find information that we

[1:22:29] don't have.

[1:22:32] I'm willing to make a motion to terminate the use of the Flock cameras until town

[1:22:37] council has reviewed the contract with Flock, and we can determine whether this

[1:22:42] information is being disseminated or it's not.

[1:22:45] Because I don't agree that cameras on the streets, that information is

[1:22:51] sold to anybody. If it's law enforcement use, I'm all about it.

[1:22:56] If only the cops can have it, I'm good to go. Green light, have at it.

[1:23:00] But if in fact that information is being

[1:23:04] sold or whatever, and I don't know, because I didn't do the research, it hasn't

[1:23:08] been proven to me that it's been done, but I don't think we should be using it

[1:23:11] until we have all that information. Good, bad, or indifferent.

[1:23:14] I know it saved a life. I know it's a great tool.

[1:23:19] But again, if it's

[1:23:21] doing things it shouldn't do, we should take a look at that.

[1:23:25] And that being said, I don't know the rest of how you guys feel, but

[1:23:31] I didn't take a vote to put them up. But if it takes this board to postpone the use

[1:23:35] of them until we determine that it's the appropriate mechanism for law enforcement,

[1:23:43] or just a thought.

[1:23:45] I'd like to take a motion to

[1:23:52] block the use for 30 days and let us do our due diligence

[1:23:57] and see where we are.

[1:24:02] I just think we need to get some information

[1:24:06] so that we can put a lot of these questions at ease that the public has.

[1:24:12] Does the town lawyer have the contract?

[1:24:14] She actually has it, yeah. But again, this is just-

[1:24:19] Also, if Flock's changing it, we'll see.

[1:24:21] But this is just-- Again, just hear me say that this is just a temporary

[1:24:26] pause to what we're doing so that we can gather the information.

[1:24:29] Because, one, that's going to distill into the public that, one, we're hearing you,

[1:24:35] we're taking your information, we're processing it, and we're going to take a short

[1:24:40] pause to get you back the information that we find.

[1:24:43] And in that time, I think we should just put a pause on the Flock until a

[1:24:48] set time, 30 days, or if the county needs more, then we come back and we push

[1:24:54] it a little longer. But

[1:24:56] just a thought. I just think that there's been enough evidence here tonight and

[1:25:00] enough people showed up to support, at least

[1:25:06] get some information and make sure that what's being said is accurate, not

[1:25:11] accurate. Is our information safe? Is it not safe?

[1:25:14] And is the tool worth having it on the streets?

[1:25:18] Can I ask you how the

[1:25:23] town council's work has gone on this?

[1:25:27] Council has done an initial review, and

[1:25:31] council feels that council and I would be able to go back to Flock and

[1:25:37] perhaps get additional safeguards.

[1:25:41] Just to be clear, that has not happened yet, so I don't want to say I can guarantee

[1:25:44] A, B, C. But council feels as though

[1:25:48] we can go back to the drawing board and try to get additional-

[1:25:51] What safeguard?

[1:25:52] Excuse me?

[1:25:53] What safeguard?

[1:25:55] To be honest with you,

[1:25:58] council has-

[1:25:58] We'll report that back

[1:25:59] ... reviewed that and has just shared with me that there are things in the contract

[1:26:05] that beyond the standard contract that Flock offers, that we can have a

[1:26:08] conversation with about Flock to create a stronger legal document.

[1:26:12] What that is, is something we've have a conversation initially with, the

[1:26:15] negotiations with Flock cameras, and it would be presented publicly for the select

[1:26:19] board to sign.

[1:26:20] But I mean, it would have to require that the Flock cameras do not upload to their

[1:26:24] cloud.

[1:26:24] Which is impossible.

[1:26:25] Which will not happen.

[1:26:27] Correct.

[1:26:27] Right? So technically-

[1:26:29] We'll do our due diligence, and we'll report back in a public capacity.

[1:26:33] If you're asking them not to collect our data, they're not going to not do it

[1:26:37] because they want the money.

[1:26:39] Then that's how they get there. We'll be loading.

[1:26:41] But I will publicly share, if I'm being tasked with working with council to create

[1:26:47] a stronger document, that document will be presented in a public forum at a select

[1:26:51] board meeting. The document is publicly available, and will be discussed to

[1:26:56] determine whether it's meritorious to sign or not.

[1:26:59] Maybe it would be a good idea to have the pause.

[1:27:03] Yes, I think everybody said. Yep.

[1:27:05] Mr. Chair, I make a motion that would pause the Flock-

[1:27:07] They're trying

[1:27:08] ... for the term of 30 days, unless an extension is needed.

[1:27:16] I'm sorry, we didn't hear a vote.

[1:27:18] I made a motion to postpone Flock for 30 days unless further time is needed.

[1:27:22] It hasn't been seconded. They're trying to.

[1:27:24] We're working on that.

[1:27:25] It hasn't been seconded.

[1:27:27] Who's going to second it?

[1:27:30] Be brave. Be brave.

[1:27:38] Any further discussion?

[1:27:42] Can we second the motion?

[1:27:48] All in favor?

[1:27:49] Aye.

[1:27:51] Thank you.

[1:27:53] So we voted to postpone it for 30 days. Is this where we are?

[1:27:56] Thank you.

[1:27:57] Yep.

[1:28:01] Thank you very much for coming.

[1:28:08] We will have another meeting on this at the end of the 30 days.

[1:28:15] And if we need more time, we'll let everyone know, and we won't bring them on until

[1:28:19] we make a formal decision.

[1:28:20] Again, this isn't like the cameras are coming down, you're going to drive by them,

[1:28:22] and they're going to be down, gone. That's not what we did here.

[1:28:25] This is back gathering time. I'm sorry?

[1:28:28] How do we know that they're actually not working?

[1:28:30] We just told you we're suspending it.

[1:28:32] All right.

[1:28:32] And that's what we're doing.

[1:28:35] So obviously it doesn't happen like that. I'm going to have to go in.

[1:28:38] But it doesn't matter. Just because he said it, it doesn't mean they shut down

[1:28:42] outside right now. He's not all powerful, so obviously I'm going

[1:28:47] to have to call them tomorrow and start the process of shutting down the cameras.

[1:28:51] Okay. I don't think anybody's working right now that I can call, so.

[1:28:54] No, I see that. I'm just saying, that's why I was saying it

[1:28:58] But please, know that this isn't just the select board voted to take them down.

[1:29:03] Right.

[1:29:03] We are just voting to pause the cameras until we can gather our information.

[1:29:09] One, the contract that we need to make sure the contract is valid and up to date,

[1:29:15] and appropriate, and then we'll get back to you.

[1:29:18] Thank you.

[1:29:19] All right.

[1:29:20] Thank you.

[1:29:21] I'm sorry if I'm late, but I have one question.

[1:29:23] It's a rather different course around to a road, in respect to the shutdown.

[1:29:27] And

[1:29:29] I know, I'm pleased that you are putting the effort in.

[1:29:32] You are in to use them as well as you can.

[1:29:37] Pausing them, as I understand it, with Flock, so they're connected,

[1:29:42] they're still reading the data, and that's my reservation. I agree.

[1:29:47] I believe it is a fundamental violation of privacy that is collected, stored

[1:29:53] forever, and sold. That's my objection to it, and it is

[1:29:58] unfortunate

[1:30:01] that that also, or fortunate, I guess, it has two benefits to you and saves lives.

[1:30:07] I think the risk is much greater, and I don't think any of us in this room

[1:30:12] understands those potential risks yet.

[1:30:17] So I would just ask to confirm that the pause in fact means they're not reading the

[1:30:21] data.

[1:30:23] Like I said, as soon as I get back to work tomorrow-

[1:30:26] That's all I wanted

[1:30:27] ... I will email Al

[1:30:28] ... because as I understand it, if they're connected, they're reading.

[1:30:32] And you may not have access to it. They can shut it off to you.

[1:30:36] Yeah.

[1:30:36] But Flock is the one that's in control.

[1:30:38] So I will contact them tomorrow, and I will relay that to the select board, letting

[1:30:42] them know that I'll have to try to get something in writing from them.

[1:30:45] Obviously, I see this different than everybody, because I've had to have dead

[1:30:49] people in my arms, and I've had

[1:30:52] to go to people's houses and say, "Hey, listen,

[1:30:56] your son is dead from this." Or, I've been with somebody as they died in my arms,

[1:31:00] too. And if these cameras can help save lives, that's why I had them up there, so.

[1:31:05] And there are-

[1:31:06] If it's our own cameras, couldn't the police have their own cameras?

[1:31:10] Yeah.

[1:31:11] You have your cameras in town-

[1:31:13] Yeah

[1:31:13] ... to do the surveillance you need.

[1:31:15] We'd have to make up our own kind of camera system, data system.

[1:31:20] No, any teenager could do it.

[1:31:23] All right. Well, I guess I'm sorry. I guess I'm not that good.

[1:31:26] I guarantee you-

[1:31:27] Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

[1:31:29] I guarantee you, extremely could do it for free

[1:31:32] We pause it for 30 days- We pause it for 30 days ... please. Yep.

[1:31:36] We're done with the discussion. We will get back to you in 30 days.

[1:31:42] But when is the next meeting?

[1:31:44] It most likely won't be the next meeting.

[1:31:46] The meetings are the first and the third Mondays of the month.

[1:31:50] Okay.

[1:31:50] So it won't be the next one. It could be the one after that.

[1:31:53] And if we are not ready, then it will be postponed.

[1:31:55] Okay.

[1:31:57] Will that be in the notices for the Wanderer or-

[1:32:00] I will post an agenda, and we will post it on the-

[1:32:06] Town website

[1:32:06] ... town website. We won't post for this in the Wanderer.

[1:32:09] I'll post something on Facebook.

[1:32:12] I'm not on Facebook.

[1:32:13] We don't

[1:32:15] do

[1:32:19] Facebook.

[1:32:20] Keanu doesn't like Facebook. All right. That's another thing.

[1:32:23] Okay. Thank you. Moving on.

[1:32:26] Thank you.

[1:32:28] Under correspondence, we have a resignation letter for the events committee,

[1:32:35] member Renee Duffy.

[1:32:37] I move to accept the resignation of Renee Duffy from the events committee and thank

[1:32:42] her for her service to the town. Second.

[1:32:47] All in favor?

[1:32:48] Aye.

[1:32:49] Aye.

[1:32:49] And we should send her a-

[1:32:52] Thank you. Thank you.

[1:32:53] Thank you for her letter.

[1:32:54] You're welcome.

[1:32:56] Town administrator's report. Okay.

[1:33:00] I hope it's apparent, especially on nights like this, that I really like my job.

[1:33:04] The toughest part, or my least favorite part, the only part, is procurement.

[1:33:10] I find the state can be incredibly convoluted with how it sets up its procurement

[1:33:16] law, and I finally achieved my MCPPO, which is a certification for public

[1:33:20] procurement. So that is behind me, and I'm happy to have that out of the

[1:33:26] way, because that is some convoluted stuff there.

[1:33:30] So

[1:33:32] I'm very pleased with myself. I'm patting myself on the back all the time because I

[1:33:35] still want to-

[1:33:41] As we are getting ready to start the budget process, which will begin in early

[1:33:46] December, my other favorite part of the year,

[1:33:51] we have some additional financial information.

[1:33:53] So Plymouth County has the town's pension fund.

[1:34:00] And so the actuary study every two years, it just came out, and it saw the

[1:34:05] town's year-over-year increase to be $134,000.

[1:34:10] ORR, the district's annual pension increase, was $191,000.

[1:34:16] So the county has added an additional year to its

[1:34:22] goal to be fully funded in 2032. The law requires it to be funded in 2040,

[1:34:28] but the county will be funded in 2032.

[1:34:33] So if the town roughly will have $900,000 in new revenue for

[1:34:38] FY28, for FY27, we're now $134,000

[1:34:44] towards

[1:34:46] hitting the threshold of what we have.

[1:34:49] So we still will be waiting on

[1:34:52] minimum contribution that the state requires to support our four school

[1:34:56] partnerships that we have.

[1:34:59] But this is a very difficult number to swallow, most

[1:35:04] certainly. So I believe this is predicting, and to no surprise, and if you follow

[1:35:09] the FY27 budget process, but this is predicting another very tight budget year.

[1:35:16] So I guess I wanted to let that be known.

[1:35:20] A couple of updates. The town has always had a great relationship

[1:35:26] with our community specialist through Eversource,

[1:35:29] and we now have a new person. Her name is Katrina Ferrera, and I

[1:35:35] met with her, and she seems incredibly engaging.

[1:35:38] And I think if you've lived in town long enough, you've seen that many times we're

[1:35:43] in a big storm, it can take a long time to get back up and running.

[1:35:46] And I think over time, that relationship has greatly improved with our previous

[1:35:53] representative with Eversource.

[1:35:54] Jeff is very pleased with the communication that we built with Eversource.

[1:35:59] And so I know that this success will continue now with Katrina.

[1:36:05] I attended the Town Foundation's fifth annual block party, and I just want to say

[1:36:09] thank you again to the friends group for pivoting and

[1:36:14] coming indoors after Nor'easter and continuing to raise money for

[1:36:20] our building expansion. And so I appreciate their efforts.

[1:36:25] I met with a boy representative just to learn more about the town's 457 plans that

[1:36:30] we offer, so we can give better service to residents.

[1:36:33] We met with Tom DiPaolo, our representative from Maya.

[1:36:36] They do all of our property and casualty insurance and our workers' compensation.

[1:36:42] And this is the one line item that we're seeing to be relatively

[1:36:47] stable as different things are getting more expensive, health insurance, et cetera.

[1:36:54] We've made some great gains in making savings here, changing plans, and I

[1:36:59] appreciate

[1:37:02] the work that Maya has done, knowing that like every town, towns are feeling the

[1:37:07] pinch. And so steady the course there.

[1:37:11] We won't be making any changes to

[1:37:14] the town's coverages and levels that we have.

[1:37:17] I met with Michelle Kirby, a member of the Conservation Commission, to talk about

[1:37:21] the financial structure around the Conservation Commission and the 53G accounts,

[1:37:26] the money that we take in if someone needs to do work at their home or

[1:37:32] on a site. And that money is normally used for peer reviews, engineering, and

[1:37:37] consulting. So we just want to have a conversation about that.

[1:37:43] I scheduled an appraiser to look at the YMCA site off of Snow's Pond Road.

[1:37:49] So that has not happened yet, but we are moving forward accordingly.

[1:37:53] I met with a representative from the New England Rodeo who has requested that we go

[1:37:58] into negotiations about extending

[1:38:03] their license agreement for additional years.

[1:38:06] So I'll have that conversation with them, and I'll present that for this board to

[1:38:10] consider and to sign.

[1:38:13] Marsha Kessler, the town's grant writer, and myself met with an engineering firm

[1:38:17] called Pare, P-A-R-E, and we had conversations about

[1:38:23] trying to obtain grants to do studies.

[1:38:27] And this is one of my biggest concerns and goals that I hope to achieve as your

[1:38:32] town administrator, looking at water resources that we have in town and studying

[1:38:36] the aquifer to see how stressed private wells are.

[1:38:41] Twenty-five years from now, generations from now, will we have enough water to

[1:38:46] support private wells when we have cities to the north of us in Bray Quick

[1:38:52] is pulling out 160% of the safe yields, and you have the three towns below us

[1:38:58] selling water from

[1:39:01] flowing out of Stipp and out of the Mattapoisett River Valley.

[1:39:04] And so my goal is once we have an engineering study that says, "Wells

[1:39:10] are fine. You can have another 20,000 people move in," or, "Wells are stressed.

[1:39:14] We have a problem here," then we can go to the DEP with that information, and we

[1:39:18] can talk about trying to secure additional water rights for the town.

[1:39:23] So we're working on that now.

[1:39:28] I met with

[1:39:31] Ms. Lopes, I believe she's president of the ORR Education Foundation, and gave them

[1:39:35] some additional grant opportunities.

[1:39:39] And then I had an update from Superintendent Polanski of Old Colony, just getting

[1:39:45] an update on

[1:39:47] their budget process early on.

[1:39:52] And then finally, I am taking some courses at Suffolk University.

[1:39:56] Busy.

[1:39:58] Very busy. Regional government and federalism,

[1:40:02] and that give and take between what can be done at the federal level versus the

[1:40:07] state versus local, up, down, what have you. And then e-government.

[1:40:12] So it's been a busy month.

[1:40:19] Thank you. Thanks for staying here.

[1:40:21] Just a joy to be here.

[1:40:24] You'll be all right.

[1:40:25] My contract's up in June.

[1:40:29] That's what I'm going to talk about at the town meeting, all right?

[1:40:31] Yeah.

[1:40:32] Out of the budget town meeting came up, certainly.

[1:40:35] Very good. That's all I have.

[1:40:37] Thank you, sir.

[1:40:38] Thank you.

[1:40:40] Okay, action items. Lions Club request to use town hall parking lot on October

[1:40:45] 17th for recycling event. So moved. Second.

[1:40:51] Lorraine, do you have anything to add?

[1:40:55] You got it. You got it.

[1:40:57] Everyone should bring their junk.

[1:41:02] Basically, if it has an electric cord, it should be recycled through this

[1:41:08] event, not in the trash.

[1:41:11] Broken radio.

[1:41:12] Actually, no, that's not

[1:41:18] the

[1:41:20] case.

[1:41:20] Lorraine, you all set?

[1:41:22] Yes, sir.

[1:41:23] Speaking of parking lots, the highway department has started.

[1:41:26] They've got engineering

[1:41:28] plans, and they're working on our parking lot behind town hall, that bump-out that

[1:41:33] we did.

[1:41:33] Oh, good.

[1:41:34] Thank you, Mr. Eldridge.

[1:41:35] Yes.

[1:41:38] Do you have anything? No. That's all.

[1:41:42] Can I just add one thing?

[1:41:45] Email and pause and process started. It'll take in effect tomorrow morning.

[1:41:50] Wow. Thank you.

[1:41:51] Yep.

[1:41:52] He goes and adds that, and we

[1:41:53] can't say anything.

[1:41:59] Just has to do that, huh?

[1:42:03] The police, huh?

[1:42:05] No, I mean,

[1:42:07] I do my job.

[1:42:08] I'm just doing my job. I'm trying to keep people safe in Rochester. That's it.

[1:42:15] Is there any other public comment about anything else?

[1:42:20] Hearing none,

[1:42:22] make a motion to go into executive session for so reason as stated by the chair.

[1:42:26] Second. And we'll be returning into open session following.

[1:42:32] All in favor? Aye. Aye.

[1:42:34] Thank you guys again for coming.

[1:42:35] Thank you.

10/05/26 - Rochester Select Board

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