[0:16] Board norms debate commentary and discussion are healthy and open, listening and speaking are equally important and both should be done with respect and consideration.

[0:27] focuses on students and our schools, not politics, assume best intentions in all

[0:33] discussions.

[0:39] I get it. We don't approve the agenda, our decisions and the

[0:43] nations. We accept the President of the overall agenda, the way.

[0:51] This is a

[0:51] mustn't approve the agenda. We don't have a motion to approve the agenda anymore.

[0:56] Right, right, we don't. Why not? We should be. That's part of the new policy.

[1:01] because you've basically approved it when you develop the work plan, but you can't ask if there's any

[1:06] decisions of words.

[1:08] Yeah.

[1:08] Relations.

[1:09] It changes.

[1:10] Expectable.

[1:12] I do have a question before we get to the consent agenda.

[1:18] We're at the consent.

[1:18] Go ahead.

[1:19] Move to approve the agenda.

[1:22] So we don't have a motion anymore to approve the agenda.

[1:25] That's what we're just going to do that now.

[1:27] Okay.

[1:29] So who is writing these policies?

[1:32] That is my question.

[1:34] The policies that you see here are already established.

[1:39] By who?

[1:40] By the board.

[1:43] So there are no changes to these policies.

[1:45] Are you talking about the new policies that we're, so the policies that we're being asked to approve?

[1:51] Those are policies that are in existence that have already been.

[1:54] What section are we?

[1:56] Well, I'm talking under the consent agenda.

[1:58] For example, the ownership linkage.

[2:00] Okay, national development. So those are just referenced. So the policies that were written by the board over the last winter

[2:10] and spring those are the policy just with the agenda of references the actual policies. So 4.3.2 is the policy that that falls under.

[2:22] Okay. Just references what policy if that pertains to the consent and agenda is under policy 4.3.2.

[2:29] It's not like it's a new policy we're trying to adopt today.

[2:33] Okay, but I do have a question under the ownership linkage, too.

[2:36] I don't think that it's appropriate for us to tell people that only have five minutes to speak.

[2:41] I mean, if there's no one out here speaking, I think that someone who has a legitimate issue should be given more than five minutes to speak.

[2:49] Should we wait, can we get to that part? Let me, let me get through the consent agenda then.

[2:54] If I get a motion to approve the consent agenda, let's go ahead.

[2:59] I need a discussion on favor.

[3:03] Thank you.

[3:04] Now we are on to the ownership linkage.

[3:11] Okay, so.

[3:12] Here in.

[3:15] I think that's what we've always done.

[3:18] And I remember because when we were.

[3:23] I mean the negotiations last spring, not this past spring, but this spring before.

[3:26] I was in charge of holding people to the two minutes.

[3:28] Well, and let me just finish, and then, and so, it was difficult, but we've always had a two minute limit and I think we really held it that night because there were so many people who wanted to speak.

[3:43] I think generally we don't always hold people.

[3:45] Okay, well, I understand that when, for example, that night there were numerous people who wanted to speak, and that's fine, but I think in the ordinary course of business we should not tell people you only have five minutes to speak.

[4:01] Well, with the solution B where it says each person will be limited to two minutes simply each person may be limited to two minutes

[4:08] You know depends. Yeah, I think that's a better. I think that's a better use.

[4:12] Instead of instead of will just may.

[4:14] Yeah.

[4:19] It's on that.

[4:21] Let's see.

[4:22] Let's see.

[4:22] Let's

[4:28] see.

[4:29] Which I don't think there's any public comment.

[4:33] Is there?

[4:33] No.

[4:33] find up in Sophia and Peter are our public. So wonderful. Sophia is here to report

[4:41] out of magic. Okay. On to Board Professional Development, we have Jeannie here with

[4:49] us to help us move along with the policy governance planing.

[4:57] Awesome. Nice to be back with

[4:58] you guys. You just went through that first 20 minutes and five. Congratulations.

[5:03] So, I'm going to take everything you gave me, right now.

[5:07] So, my goal tonight, it's relatively short, you're not here with me for another four hours.

[5:14] This is about an hour or so.

[5:16] We're going to, because tonight, you're getting your first official monitoring report on the Succession Plan Policy,

[5:23] we're going to make it a mini lesson on how to read a monitoring report.

[5:27] You have heard this before just a brief refresher and then actually walk through even though that's on the agenda right after me

[5:34] We're just gonna build it into this. Is that all right?

[5:39] And then we had wanted to spend a little time on the board self evaluation process and

[5:46] I was asked today that may be speak a little bit on student representation on a policy governance board

[5:52] Which is a topic. I'm happy to speak on and but the fun is gonna be

[5:57] digging into some practice scenarios and applying it and some real life situations that

[6:03] you may deal with and how it works there.

[6:06] Sound okay?

[6:08] I'm in the right room?

[6:09] Okay, good.

[6:11] Let me see who else is having a board meeting tonight at the end of the day.

[6:14] Okay.

[6:15] So remember, Caroline Oliver, who wrote the book that I think I just saw handed to you,

[6:22] It says monitoring is where accountability begins, so in policy governance, you write the

[6:30] executive limitations and the N's policies and you monitor those policies to see if

[6:35] the superintendent is being compliant in order to know if what you said you want happening

[6:41] in the school district is happening.

[6:42] So, those explicitly written expectations are monitored on a regular basis.

[6:53] You, the board, decide how often you want to receive monitoring reports.

[7:02] It can be in the first year of doing this, but you might not want every single month,

[7:07] but I think you did plug into your annual work plan every single month.

[7:10] So you have scheduled in your work plan already, which is great in collaboration with Pam.

[7:16] How often you're going to get the reports and when each one will come in,

[7:21] they don't necessarily come in an order of numbering.

[7:24] It's really a matter of the cycle of the school year.

[7:26] We did leave one empty inventory just in case.

[7:30] There was a snow event during one of our board meetings, or one went long, or we need to follow up.

[7:41] You do, so then, once you get in your pattern, you do review and executive limitations annually.

[7:47] But don't forget you also have to monitor your own governance policy and board management delegation policies.

[7:53] Again, you don't have to do it annually, but do it at least every other year so that if you want to make some changes and how you're doing things

[7:59] You're kind of up to speed and you know how you're doing. Okay,

[8:04] so what's in a monitoring report?

[8:06] If you could pull out a coffee of monarchy, the monitoring report 2.5 looks it has the blue and it has the grid and says monitoring report.

[8:20] You can kind of follow along and just add a high level view, see if these pieces are in here.

[8:26] So you should have a name of the policy being monitored.

[8:30] This one is 2.5, emergency superintendent succession.

[8:36] You should have an indication of its new or it's changed interpretation.

[8:40] Since this is your first version of this, it's of course it's new.

[8:44] I mean, there's no need to, you know, to state that.

[8:47] Next year, when it comes back to you, if she makes changes, she should note that it's been changed slightly.

[8:55] She may not need to, and this policy may change, it's hard to say.

[8:59] You want to see if there's a section for the superintendents interpretation, there is.

[9:05] She actually did write the language of the policy itself, which is good.

[9:09] You want to see if there's a rationale for her interpretation, there is.

[9:13] Then you want to see if that interpretation is defined or clarified through observable conditions.

[9:24] So not only did she interpret it, but she's telling you if I were successful under my interpretation, this is what it looks like.

[9:31] So on the back page, the column that says observable conditions tells you what it would look like.

[9:38] On the right-hand column, she gives you evidence or data to support compliance or tell you

[9:46] there's non-compliance, whatever it is she needs to tell you with that interpretation.

[9:50] And then ultimately, she signs off on whether there is or is not compliance or if there

[9:56] is partial compliance.

[9:58] So that's the pieces.

[9:59] Now it used to be, and her view might be familiar with some that kind of went on a little bit

[10:05] longer but you had to go back and forth. So we're trying to set this up so you can read it as

[10:10] you go and not keep going back and forth. So we'll see if this works for you. Okay. Any questions

[10:16] on any of that? Okay. Am I speaking loud enough because my ears are doing weird stuff? Okay.

[10:22] Am I yelling? No. Okay. Very bad. Do we have these? Yes. Actually you do. Oh, dude. I didn't

[10:32] because then I saw your Texas head, but it's on in 1920.

[10:36] Yes, but it's here.

[10:37] Oh, no, I thought it was.

[10:38] Oh, that's just for me.

[10:42] I meant me.

[10:43] Oh, I thought we were going to have a question.

[10:47] When I meant to say, with Ken, can we have them?

[10:49] I did this to my packet to see if we didn't have them?

[10:51] Yes, so I've asked the wrong question.

[10:52] Yes, I was still making changes as recently as five o'clock.

[10:55] So I said, don't bother, I'll send it to you after.

[10:57] Right, and that's what normally happens.

[10:59] I was, yeah, I think I should have said, can we have this at some point?

[11:01] Yes, absolutely.

[11:03] I need to come back to work.

[11:06] All right.

[11:07] So any reasonable interpretation, just a refresher?

[11:11] This is the superintendents interpretation of your words.

[11:16] Reasonable interpretation is a zone, as you may recall, and how Pam interprets it might

[11:25] not be exactly the same the way that the next superintendents interprets it or the last superintendents

[11:30] interpret it, should be pretty close though. What you're asking is not, do I agree with her interpretation?

[11:37] What you're asking is, is that reasonable? Like, does that make sense, given the words in front of her, is that reasonable?

[11:46] If it's not what you wanted, but it's reasonable, then you stop as a board and say, maybe we need to look at the language of our policy, if that's how it was interpreted.

[11:57] it. But if it's not even close to what you wrote at all and way out and left field, then that's

[12:05] a conversation with the superintendent about, tell me how you came to that interpretation

[12:10] and let's talk this through and see if you can come to the same page. Generally that should

[12:15] only happen like the first time a superintendent goes through your policies, it shouldn't happen

[12:20] year after year, but it might just need to be, I mean because a new superintendent might say that's

[12:25] how I read your words and then you now have a fresh look at your own policy. But generally

[12:31] it should be pretty reasonable or if it's missing something then speak up and say so.

[12:37] So looking at, sticking right there, looking at this monitoring report, given your policy,

[12:45] Pam interprets sudden loss of superintendent services to mean an unexpected lengthy absence

[12:50] by the superintendent.

[12:53] She interpreted executives to mean Rutland City Public School administrators with the appropriate

[12:57] credentials.

[12:59] She interpreted reasonable proficiency to mean individuals who have an understanding and application

[13:04] of the laws and policies governing the schools who can step into assumed some responsibilities.

[13:11] And she identification to the board she interpreted is actually giving you the names of those

[13:17] that she designated.

[13:19] Yes, is now inappropriate. Yes, put time to ask a question about her specifically. So I just have a question about lengthy absence. That just feels really vague to me.

[13:31] I don't know how everybody else feels about it. Do we feel like we need to have a minimum? No, yeah.

[13:38] Because lengthy can be left up to anybody's interpretation.

[13:40] I have that reaction first, but then I remember the way to make it here.

[13:48] All this is the definition of sudden loss of superintendent and services.

[13:55] That's a good point too.

[13:56] I mean, if my services are suddenly not available.

[14:01] So is that sudden loss also, or a longer term loss is covered in your contract?

[14:07] Right? There is a amount of time.

[14:13] That's not specified.

[14:19] For some reason I thought there was,

[14:20] if you, anyway, okay.

[14:24] I thought that in the contract there was if there, if I don't remember

[14:28] the exact length of time, but a certain length of time at which point might be a year,

[14:33] I don't know. I don't remember the specifics, but I know that there's some verbiage in your

[14:40] on track around you not being able to get an option to have something terrible, which will never

[14:47] happen.

[14:47] But if it did, or hopefully never happens, but if it did, that things that we have to do

[14:53] contractually were obligated to do.

[14:57] I think it's if I'm no longer able to fulfill.

[15:00] The responsibilities of the superintendency. I think that can have a different meeting as well.

[15:07] I think that means you're derelected in your duties or you just decided you don't like it here and you're going to change everything.

[15:18] Keep in mind, this is a very, very interim policy. I mean, should, here's my example, should Pam win the lottery and decide to move to Bora Bora.

[15:28] And, you know, it's Friday afternoon and she's leaving on Saturday and she's not telling you.

[15:33] Suddenly, lots of superintendent services.

[15:35] This is just, you know, somebody stepping in until you, the board, take the actions

[15:39] that you need to take to replace her.

[15:42] Because she's not designating her replacement, only you can.

[15:46] And every servant stands could be different.

[15:48] And she needs to do this because she decided to do a one week vacation.

[15:53] She may just simply because she knows she's going to be out of the office.

[15:55] She may go to a conference and designate those people to step in while she's at the conference.

[16:00] Any length of time, she can do this anyway, but you want to be assured that if it is

[16:04] going to be substantial and could affect the district, that somebody is stepping in until

[16:11] you exercise your employer rights to do whatever.

[16:17] I think as a board, I guess if we felt it was being lengthy, we could have the discussion

[16:22] about it.

[16:22] doesn't stop us from talking about it.

[16:24] That's true.

[16:24] That's right.

[16:25] So are you comfortable?

[16:27] Oh, yeah.

[16:27] I just wanted to do other people's opinions too,

[16:30] and see how the people were feeling about it.

[16:31] It was a good point.

[16:32] For sure.

[16:36] OK.

[16:37] So the question that Charlene then asks

[16:40] is is this a reasonable interpretation of our policy?

[16:45] Letter now comes up, comes down.

[16:49] I think it's a, you want more discussion on it?

[16:53] I'm going to ask the question.

[16:54] You are.

[16:55] Okay, do we feel this is a reasonable interpretation of the 2.5?

[17:05] 2.5.

[17:07] 2.5 emergency superintendent succession.

[17:14] I guess it's not a motion of is asking.

[17:16] We're just asking.

[17:17] It's kind of a consensus thing.

[17:18] Okay, and with consensus, then you move on to the next.

[17:24] I'll do the next part.

[17:25] You just need that.

[17:26] Just a clarification, I think if I'm wrong, if somebody felt that it was a unreasonable interpretation then that might lead to a motion to actually add some policy that would address whatever was not properly defined.

[17:41] Right, and that kind of just played out here because you appropriately said, I'm not sure if lengthy is enough of a reasonable interpretation.

[17:50] If you had agreed and said, we can't accept lengthy, we really want it to be specific.

[17:55] You might look at your own language because it isn't specific right now, and you might

[17:59] say two weeks or more, or whatever you wanted to define it as, exactly, just like you just

[18:06] described.

[18:07] So the first protocol goes, so I can put this rewind back to the very beginning and start

[18:12] in the conversation.

[18:13] So this comes out monitoring comes up and what am I doing from the get go like it

[18:20] So it comes up we're at that section now. Yeah, and I'm presenting monitoring is is Pam

[18:27] going to discuss these things with not the way I am. No, that would take too much of your meeting time

[18:32] Yeah, so this report would have gone out to you in advance. They've already got it. The assumption is that when you come to the meeting

[18:39] You have read it and if you have questions you're ready to ask questions. Okay

[18:43] So it comes up on your agenda, which is right after me.

[18:47] And you say it's time for the monitor and report 2.5.

[18:50] So probably the first question is, has everyone read the report?

[18:54] And hopefully they have.

[18:56] And then?

[18:56] And then, are there any questions about reasonable interpretation?

[19:02] Does everyone accept this as a reasonable interpretation?

[19:05] And you kind of get nods.

[19:07] You can if it's contentious and you'd like to do a roll call vote.

[19:11] You always can't do that.

[19:12] but you don't really have to, here, you just want consensus.

[19:15] Okay, I'm here, I think I'm going to go where herbs go in.

[19:19] So let's see, we kind of have a consensus

[19:21] that this is not reasonable, which is not what I'm sure.

[19:24] I don't know, you know, that it's not on the agenda

[19:29] to discuss this policy tonight.

[19:30] So we would then make a motion to add it to another agenda,

[19:35] or like, how do we then get-

[19:36] I think in the moment you want at least enough of a discussion,

[19:40] And like, so let's say somebody says, I really don't think this, I'm going to take the

[19:45] lengthy.

[19:45] Just as an example, because it was real, I just don't think lengthy is enough.

[19:49] I think that we really need more.

[19:52] I think you can take just a few minutes.

[19:54] Do other people agree?

[19:55] You're just it.

[19:55] Do other people agree?

[19:57] Let's say that a few other people agree with you.

[20:00] What do we think is an appropriate term?

[20:03] Okay, what then you would ask, I'm being Charlie now, you would ask, would you like this

[20:09] come back with two weeks written into the policy. Would you like us to revisit the policy

[20:13] and write that time frame right into the policy? And then maybe somebody could make a motion

[20:18] to do that, or as I move to write somewhere in the policy, I can't do it right now.

[20:28] Southern Loss of Superintendent Services for two weeks or more. Yeah. I moved that we changed the

[20:34] policy to that. Let's bring it back next month for first reading, second reading. That

[20:38] It doesn't change her report.

[20:42] She writes the report on the language that you have.

[20:46] And actually, the question about lengthy was not about, is that a reasonable interpretation

[20:51] as it turns out it was more about, should we have clarified what it is, an unreasonable interpretation

[20:58] might be if Pam said, I don't know what's in this one. It's so straightforward. If Pam

[21:05] said, I interpret the sudden loss of superintendent services to mean that I was in a car accident.

[21:16] And that's so specific. It's like, well, what if you win the lottery? I mean, it's just too specific.

[21:23] it's not, do you see what I mean? That's not reasonable enough, because maybe your husband's

[21:29] in a car accident, and that's why you're out. And you're fine. I mean, but that's not what you said.

[21:34] I think you made an important point that if we, if a number of us felt that something needed for

[21:40] their definition, we wouldn't even be doing a first reading of a new policy at that meeting,

[21:45] we'd be sending it for the next agenda. That's correct. That's correct. So you would agree,

[21:52] And we're going to change the language and bring it back for first reading.

[21:55] And the point I want to make now is what she wrote though was on the existing policy.

[22:00] So you can't find this policy out of compliance if her definition is reasonable just because

[22:07] you're about to change the language.

[22:10] She had to work with what she had.

[22:12] And the next time she does this report, she would change it to your new language and adjust it.

[22:18] That's why we're walking through this so that you can ask all these questions.

[22:20] it correctly. We just reasonably. Reasonably. Reasonably. Reasonably. But we as a board might have been.

[22:30] When it's something else too vague or something, but it made us think, like, oh, maybe we need to make sense.

[22:35] Yeah. What if I were agreeing with them and said, yeah, you're right. I should be more specific about that.

[22:39] They still should change the language because the next you won't know that.

[22:43] Okay. All right. You know, someday, when you do win that lottery, the next Pam Reed won't know that.

[22:47] Now, I'm confused because you're saying we can't, if we wanted to make a change to make it more specific.

[22:55] Yes. We can't do that at the next meeting.

[22:58] Yes, you can't do it. Oh, I thought you were saying I couldn't we couldn't do it until she submitted this policy again. No, I'm sorry

[23:04] So let me I said the opposite so if you want to make a change

[23:08] And the more degrees that you want to make a change and you would be more specific

[23:12] Then somebody would make a motion to bring the policy back for first reading with the

[23:18] Language you agreed upon at the next meet at the next meeting and you go through that process. Okay, what I said that might have confused you is

[23:24] That doesn't change the report you got tonight

[23:28] Okay, because that language didn't exist when she wrote the report for tonight.

[23:33] It would change the next time she gives this report when the policy language has changed.

[23:40] So, in other words, like, so we had to make sure that she wouldn't have to give it until you're next.

[23:45] Unless it's unlikely you'd have her give it until next year.

[23:49] But then we wouldn't be changing it.

[23:51] You're changing the policy. You're not changing her report.

[23:53] But you could tell me you wanted me to change you could tell me that you wanted an updated monitoring report right now

[23:59] And as soon as you passed I guess we have to do that if we want it

[24:03] As soon as you would still be updated and if she would still have to follow the new policy

[24:07] So I'm trying to correct it. Yeah, so you didn't see the report would not really matter because the policy would still be very confusing though to not be able to correct it

[24:17] Well, she doesn't need to correct it because

[24:19] because, well, I shouldn't say correct it, but that we can't.

[24:25] So technically, she wouldn't be responsible to next year to do it.

[24:29] She wouldn't be responsible to report until next year, but the second you pass that new policy,

[24:34] she is bound by it.

[24:36] And then she has a year to live by it and she reports to you that I was only out for one week

[24:41] and six days, so I didn't do it.

[24:43] But as I think somebody said, if we changed the policy, we made it more definite, we could at that point ask Pam to redo the report.

[24:54] You could.

[24:55] And this one, it's not that big a deal.

[24:56] Another policy might be.

[24:59] So to clarify, again, so will me this policy comes,

[25:03] our monetary report comes up and we ask about any additions,

[25:08] thoughts on the reasonableness of Pam's interpretation.

[25:11] Yeah, I wouldn't ask at that way, I would actually, did you put it on your agenda?

[25:17] No, I think he said, is this a reasonable interpretation?

[25:19] Yeah, I would, I don't actually recommend putting the two questions right on your agenda.

[25:23] It helps the guide for the board prepare.

[25:25] No, you would simply ask, do you agree this is a reasonable interpretation of this policy?

[25:32] And that might lead to a short discussion, but you're correct.

[25:36] You don't move into the full first reading and you don't do that.

[25:41] It might be that your discussion says, we need to look at this policy language and what comes out of that is you designate

[25:48] two board members to bring back a revised version based on your discussion.

[25:54] But you don't have to do the work right then at that moment.

[25:57] But then we see a consensus.

[26:00] We're not saying we need some majority of the people to size.

[26:04] No, we're fine with this.

[26:07] That's good enough.

[26:13] In terms of monitoring reports, we can ask for a given monitoring report at any time during

[26:21] the year.

[26:21] Yes, you can.

[26:24] You have a work plan that has already laid out when you're going to receive monitoring reports

[26:31] on your executive limitations and ends.

[26:34] But should something come up during the year?

[26:37] or if you change a policy and want to give her a couple of months to apply it and then do another one,

[26:43] you can request the board determines when and how a monitoring report is done.

[26:51] You can change your work plan, in other words.

[26:54] This may be getting into what you want to say about student representatives, but I think student representatives

[27:00] should also be encouraged to take part in that kind of a discussion.

[27:03] I know in Tecanic and Green occasional, it was a student representatives that, wait a minute,

[27:08] you guys aren't following your own policy.

[27:11] That would be lovely.

[27:13] Don't feel that way.

[27:16] Yeah, you're right.

[27:18] And we're going to talk about student representatives and you have some decisions to make

[27:21] there.

[27:23] Okay.

[27:24] So where we are now in the process is generally, you've come to consensus, which is kind

[27:30] an informal majority or you can make it a formal vote if you feel you need to.

[27:35] That her interpretation is reasonable.

[27:38] Good job.

[27:41] You don't really vote on the rationale but you read it with the interpretation.

[27:44] I mean, she let you know where it came from.

[27:46] Oh, good.

[27:47] Well, no, I was just going to say I think for clarification and should there be a question that

[27:52] comes up later about this.

[27:54] I think we should take a vote on it and.

[27:57] Sure.

[27:58] Let that stand.

[27:59] I mean it might be a good idea. So you can get cleaner. Yeah, and then yeah, I agree. I think it's a good idea. You don't have to, but I think it's a good idea.

[28:11] So you do have a motion.

[28:12] Is there a motion that this is a reasonable interpretation?

[28:15] Is fine.

[28:16] That can.

[28:19] Any discussion?

[28:21] Just a caution that that doesn't necessarily mean it's the only interpretation if we have a new superintendent in five years.

[28:28] that doesn't limit that superintendent from saying, here's a different reason of one

[28:32] interpretation, that's right, so what are we agreeing on then by having this motion

[28:40] that as a four day you're except as up today in this report in this policy is for the

[28:45] superintendent's report this for it accepts this as a reasonable interpretation of your

[28:52] policy might it be simpler and a little less misleading if we simply said we accept

[28:57] reporter. You're going to get there. Don't get it. Right now we're just doing one question. Thank you, you're right.

[29:05] Okay, did you put the motion on a table?

[29:09] We haven't voted. All in favour.

[29:11] Hi. Excellent. Now I can say nice job.

[29:14] Okay.

[29:16] So then the second question, which again helps if it's right on the agenda or in the superintendent's report.

[29:22] For the second question is, on the back side, do you feel that data or evidence that is provided

[29:32] that lines up with your observable conditions, do you feel that that is appropriate adequate?

[29:40] Do you accept that data and evidence?

[29:46] So Gene, if they were doing a motion, if they were doing a motion this section too, then it would be a motion to accept

[29:53] The observable condition and data, yes, as presented.

[29:58] So we need a clarification.

[30:00] Motion. Yes? No.

[30:11] That's why I suggest that the only motion really should be a motion to accept the report. I think we're getting into unnecessary detail here, because let's say I disagree with some of the evidence. Then if there's a motion, except the report, I'm going to vote against the motion. I'm going to explain why.

[30:31] typically at least in my experience the reports are almost always accepted you don't have to

[30:39] have stage by stage to say okay do we accept the interpretation we accept the rational

[30:44] do we accept the evidence and the policy so we already did the policy are you suggesting

[30:50] that only one question is asked do we accept this court so the reason I do the step by step

[30:57] And like I said earlier, you don't have to vote.

[31:00] I mean, you can, you don't have to vote on this step by step.

[31:04] But in my experience, A, it reminds you of what it is

[31:09] that you're supposed to be evaluating this on.

[31:13] That direct question of, is this interpretation reasonable?

[31:16] Is this evidence adequate?

[31:19] And otherwise, if you just go straight to the final question,

[31:23] do you accept the report as written?

[31:26] your discussion might generate why somebody says no, but that's when you might get

[31:31] into the, I don't like the interpretation, it's not what I would have done kind of thing.

[31:36] So it's kind of almost like a reminder process.

[31:41] Is the interpretation reasonable?

[31:43] Is the evidence adequate?

[31:45] And then the big, the question that really does need to vote as opposed to those two little ones is

[31:50] do we accept the report?

[31:55] So, sorry about this trying really hard.

[31:57] No, no, no, no, I'm also a teacher, so I was trying not to be that like.

[32:02] I know you see me.

[32:03] She's done a really nice job, though. She just stuck to her hand.

[32:09] So, the idea that we have discussion and consensus or discussion on those two questions,

[32:15] I think, is something we all maybe can agree on.

[32:19] I think the question is, do we need three motions?

[32:24] So we make right her.

[32:26] So I think I'm with you and maybe that just the three motions might seem cumbersome,

[32:30] but it's like, hey, yes, we all seem like, oh, brought up a good point, and we talked

[32:35] it through, and great.

[32:36] We can move on without a motion, and then we go to reasonable evidence, so maybe two questions

[32:43] in one motion is what you might normally do?

[32:47] Can we, can I ask like that? Do we agree with the interpretation? Yes, as a

[32:54] just a conversation. And then I'm just going to rephrase that again. I keep saying

[32:58] wrong. I know that I think it's important. Do we agree this is a reasonable

[33:02] interpretation? There's a different meaning to, do we agree with the interpretation?

[33:07] We might not agree with it. But is it reasonable? Okay. Do we agree that this is a

[33:12] reasonable interpretation, yep, we can have discussion, and then maybe after that move to

[33:18] accept a report. So two questions first. Do we agree? And put them right on the agenda.

[33:24] Do we agree this is a reasonable interpretation? And do we agree that there is adequate evidence

[33:30] to show compliance? Okay. And then the final question which is the official one, do we accept

[33:40] this report and that's the motion.

[33:43] Well, there's nothing wrong of making the motion first as long as we do after that, which

[33:47] Harley is talking about, right?

[33:48] Right.

[33:50] We have our discussion.

[33:51] Yeah.

[33:52] But those are the discussion points.

[33:55] And so before you accept the report, you really want to make sure that people are comfortable

[33:58] with the reasonableness of the interpretation and the adequacy of the evidence.

[34:09] Whether you do it after a motion to accept or you do it before a motion to accept doesn't matter.

[34:19] Okay, good right now.

[34:22] Alright, so let's talk about non-compliance, because it can't happen.

[34:27] There are reasons why a superintendent might be out of compliance.

[34:31] If it's not egregious, meaning she's not filtering all your funds or reporting to you that you, you know, she was moving things around

[34:44] It's probably, possibly, there's an unforeseeable catastrophe that occurred such as federal

[34:52] agency of education just notified you you don't get your title and funds and you're

[34:56] now out of compliance with your budgeting.

[34:59] She has to spend money, you don't have to keep the district going.

[35:03] That's a non-compliance with your policy, but not really her fault, but she still is

[35:08] required because you have a policy telling her to let you know that she's not in compliance.

[35:14] COVID was another time. I know it's behind us now, but there are a few policies we couldn't

[35:18] be in compliance with when we didn't have students in school. So, this perhaps could be in

[35:25] your, is there a certain span of time in which if she understands that she's out of compliance

[35:31] that has to report to us? Let me talk about the compliance reasons and then I'll tell you what

[35:35] and snacks. You guys are really smart. You're so smart.

[35:41] So another reason might be that the

[35:43] policy is new and is going to require significant time to come into compliance. I could

[35:50] guarantee you that Pam is not in compliance with your ends policy tonight. She hasn't even seen

[35:55] kids since he wrote it. You know, that's going to take some time because now you have a North

[36:02] that she's going to be working towards, that's going to take some time to come into compliance

[36:06] on because she is building the system for it. So it could be that you have a new policy that's

[36:12] going to take some time. Sorry Pam, maybe you were in compliance, I don't know. It could

[36:18] be that, and I told you in the training this happened to me, Superintendent is new, and

[36:24] in filling out a monitoring report found out that there weren't systems in place that now

[36:30] need to be put in place. So I discovered that in my district we didn't have a solid system

[36:36] to secure student records.

[36:40] So I reported it in my monitoring report that that particular

[36:43] section of that particular policy was out of compliance and I'll get to what happens

[36:47] next in a minute. Or the superintendent has found compliance with this policy, my create

[36:56] non-compliance with another policy because you have policies and conflict.

[37:01] Back to that loss of federal funds are back to that time of loss of federal funds.

[37:07] When the agency or the Secretary of Vermont education, when it's superintendents to sign

[37:12] a policies saying that you don't have any diversity, or sign a statement saying you don't

[37:16] have any diversity policies, if she were to sign that, she would be out of compliance

[37:21] with your equity policies.

[37:22] If she didn't sign that, then she's out of compliance with the policy where you're telling

[37:27] her that she has to follow all state rules and regulations.

[37:30] So, that would be a reason to be out of compliance, but she reports it to you.

[37:37] It's possible as well that the superintendent doesn't know how to come into compliance or is just simply incompetent.

[37:46] That's the more agreed to stuff or you're going to see it happening over and over and over.

[37:51] It's like, okay, you told us you weren't, we're giving you a chance to come into compliance and they've done nothing in that three months or whatever timeline.

[37:57] or if possible a superintendent might be deliberately ignoring your policies.

[38:04] Those last two you really pick up on the next step, what if there's no compliance, what if she's out of compliance with the policy.

[38:11] If she's out of compliance with one section of the policy, this is a short one,

[38:16] but you might remember like some of them have eight or nine subsections.

[38:20] So if it's just one, she would write next to that observable condition piece out of compliance,

[38:26] and she would report partial compliance at the end of her report and then she would tell

[38:33] you why she's out of compliance and how long you can expect for her to come back into compliance.

[38:41] It's going to take me three years.

[38:43] It's going to take me three months to set up a system to have all of our student records secure

[38:49] because Christmas is happening and I lose a month that way so I need three months.

[38:54] You'll agree three months seems reasonable. You put it on your annual calendar that she's bringing back a compliance report

[39:03] At the end of that three months to demonstrate she is in compliance. Is that answer your question?

[39:11] Well, I think my question was like how soon does she so what it would she have to report it to us at the next board meeting?

[39:17] She has to report she's going to tell you if she's out of compliance with any section she's at that time going to tell you

[39:25] I need this much time to get into compliance.

[39:29] If in your discussion with her, you feel that amount of time is reasonable.

[39:33] So you put it on that board agenda.

[39:36] Okay, I guess that's not what I was at.

[39:38] I was not asking like when it came to time to report.

[39:41] I'm talking about like if she just finds out she's out of compliance with something completely separate.

[39:45] Does she have to report it prior to when we are supposed to get our report on it?

[39:52] Excellent question.

[39:52] And if so, how soon after she realizes she's out of compliance, does she need to report to us?

[39:58] And how most likely your next board meeting, if she becomes aware that the district is out of compliance on a policy,

[40:06] she does not wait for where it falls into the monitoring schedule.

[40:10] She just reports out to you that we're out of compliance.

[40:13] And we're this is what we're doing to your current.

[40:17] So who's monitoring all of this?

[40:20] Well, Pam writes it near monitoring it.

[40:24] I'm sorry.

[40:25] Who writes it?

[40:27] And do you the board of monitoring it?

[40:29] Okay.

[40:30] But who on the board?

[40:32] I mean, I understand any board member can bring it up and say, hey, we were supposed to have this

[40:37] and we don't.

[40:38] But is there a specific person, the clerk, or the chair that is actually monitoring and

[40:45] noting that on this date we're supposed to have this?

[40:49] Yes.

[40:49] You send the work plan over and over.

[40:53] You pack it.

[40:54] There's another part of the answer to your question.

[40:57] I think Karen is if you look at policy 3.4.2 that describes the three different ways that we could choose to monitor what's going on.

[41:10] Yeah, we didn't make a copy of all the cards.

[41:11] Karen doesn't have a copy of that.

[41:13] Page 9 of the policies.

[41:17] But the practical way it plays out Karen is you do have an annual work plan, it's in your

[41:24] packet. And it tells you what you're going to cover in each meeting and there's a column

[41:29] for monitoring. So let's say she has to bring it back next month. Next month you have 2.1

[41:37] on here, not this one, not 2.5. But Charlene or the clerk would write in at 2.5 as well.

[41:45] So what you would modify. So this is where you're tracking your changes to your agenda. Okay,

[41:52] so there's a practical way to make that happen

[41:57] Any other questions or non-compliance

[42:04] So

[42:07] Forget did you ask the question is the evidence adequate okay? So to show you back to the first question that I see we get right. Okay

[42:15] This is what I've got

[42:17] Do you agree this is a reasonable interpretation?

[42:19] Good. Nice job, Charlie. Yeah, got that. Okay, next one is do we agree? The evidence is adequate for compliance.

[42:29] Okay, and then the third one I think is, is there a motion solution? Do we have a motion to accept the report?

[42:35] So move. Second. Oh, we were doing it.

[42:39] We were redoing it.

[42:42] All in favor?

[42:43] All in favor?

[42:44] Aye.

[42:45] The port is accepted and you just did your next agenda item before I'm even done really

[42:50] Yeah, just freedom some time for you. It made sense to me that rather than just prepare you for the monitoring report

[42:58] Actually walk through it. It's a great question. It's great discussion

[43:03] And I agree I accept the report to

[43:08] Okay, so again

[43:10] If it comes up for discussion, and there is not agreement, a hundred percent, we're looking for a majority of people, yes.

[43:20] So it's possible we'd have to have whatever.

[43:24] Yes, or not.

[43:26] Whatever you call anything.

[43:28] Yes, it's important because I have worked with boards who maybe went around and said,

[43:34] yes, they agree the interpretation is reasonable.

[43:36] So, yes, they agree the evidence is adequate to show compliance.

[43:41] No, they don't accept the report.

[43:45] You know, it's fine.

[43:48] I mean, those are the two things that you rate at the report on.

[43:52] And at the same time, you're evaluating your own language in the report.

[43:57] Is this really what I wanted it to say?

[44:00] But I think it's good in that we have good conversation because we are going to have this ahead of time.

[44:05] So, Paul, no, that we're going to talk about this before the meeting.

[44:09] And by putting the questions right on the agenda,

[44:11] that's a reminder in your face again. How am I evaluating this report?

[44:16] Sorry, I think that this brings us to a little bit broader question.

[44:21] Not question, but statement, I think that's important for us.

[44:24] Although, understand if you move into policy governance, that's not just the monetary report,

[44:28] but there's going to be a number of things in the packet going forward that we really do have to

[44:34] to had a time. I'm terrible at it, and I'm shardly and I spoke earlier, and I was like,

[44:39] I made sure I went in and did my job and read stuff because I don't always, I'll admit,

[44:44] right, I don't. And that's going to be really, really, really hard to be laughing and glad.

[44:50] So, you know, it'll be important for us to make sure we do our homework so that we,

[44:56] and we get more used to that going forward. Yeah, I also think

[45:00] As far as policy governance is concerned, for us to be efficient here at our meetings, we are sticking to the agenda.

[45:09] So, if the topic is not on the agenda, it's not for discussion, it's going to, you know, also we have for your help.

[45:15] We have got these questions to ask yourselves to make sure that we stay in.

[45:21] So if you're asking yourself these questions and you're finding out that the question you're going to ask is

[45:28] retained to operations, then we know that that's not a question that we're going to entertain.

[45:35] And if I can support that for a second, the reason you want to do that, it's not about getting out early.

[45:40] That's not what it's about.

[45:41] It's about that the board is doing the work at the level of governance such as the big picture stuff.

[45:48] Do you hear about Act 173? By the way, okay, there's big picture stuff that you have to talk about.

[45:54] So you don't want to get bogged down in what you hired somebody to do, but sometimes you're asked to approve things because the state wants you to.

[46:02] So that's why that's the point about efficiency so that you can really talk about how your students are doing and what's affecting the district regionally or statewide or anything.

[46:12] Sorry, Karen.

[46:14] Well, I mean, I've said before that I totally disagree with this policy governance.

[46:18] I feel like the Board is being restricted, being limited.

[46:23] If I have an issue that comes up, I can't, I bring it up under old business or new business,

[46:28] depending on, I mean, those are things that are on the agenda that we're supposed to be

[46:32] able to bring up things.

[46:34] You don't have those items on this agenda anymore yet.

[46:37] New business is not something, old business and new business are not topics that are on

[46:42] And you can, you can bring things up by submitting them to your chair before hand.

[46:48] Well, I don't know if something is going to come up until I get my packet.

[46:54] I see.

[46:54] So raise questions.

[46:56] Email either Charlie or Pam about what's in your packet.

[47:00] If it is something that's totally new, like some community issue, the board is not.

[47:06] If you bring it up in the meeting, the board is not prepared to discuss it.

[47:09] the community is not prepared to have you discuss it, but you could say at the end of

[47:15] this meeting, I'd like us to talk about XYZ next meeting, and then according to your

[47:20] policy, Charlene, the superintendent and the clerk have to run it through the questions.

[47:26] I think it's a change at first.

[47:29] Well, as I said, I totally disagree with this, and I feel like the board is being really

[47:34] out of any direction that we had previously that we were doing the policies ourselves, having

[47:43] committees being, for example, now, which I was going up, which is not on the agenda, is

[47:49] the fact that we previously were assigned as a liaison with the different schools. Nothing

[47:56] has come out about that. I don't know if we don't do that anymore, or where we are with that.

[48:01] Can you email one out a while ago, giving out the liaisons to the schools, um, I can have

[48:08] Caleb recent that out.

[48:13] Okay. Okay. The new policies. Is it appropriate to post them on our website? Absolutely.

[48:19] So I don't think they're on there now. Yeah. The, um, the numbering go ahead. I just sent an email to get the

[48:31] of the re-numbering up the other policies, we waited until all the re-numbering is completed

[48:37] before we post goes, but the policy governance wants should be there, so we will get on

[48:42] that ASAP.

[48:44] Okay.

[48:44] Very good.

[48:45] It's a really good question, too, Kathy, because the second part of that question is should

[48:49] the monitoring reports be posted then, and they are public.

[48:54] Okay.

[48:54] So I also recommend that you have a section for your monitoring reports.

[48:57] What about our work plan? Is that on the website doing no reason why not?

[49:02] Yeah, I think it should be. I think it would be helpful for me.

[49:06] Yeah, because you might have a change in your things or added or then you could look at it any time.

[49:12] Or you might have a topic that is already on the agenda and you just need to know when is it on?

[49:19] I mean, that's your work plan.

[49:20] Yeah, that's guiding the work you're doing.

[49:24] As you are doing these policies,

[49:26] Each time you review a monitoring report, it's like a mini evaluation of the superintendant.

[49:34] They add up throughout the year.

[49:36] These are the expectations you laid out in writing for your superintendant,

[49:40] so therefore this is what you're evaluating her on.

[49:43] As opposed to after the years over, you tell her if she did a good job or not,

[49:47] but you didn't tell her how to do a good job.

[49:50] Under this model, you're telling her, front, what do you expect?

[49:53] And then you have her provide evidence and you accept it or not accept it or whatever you're going to do.

[49:59] I recommend creating a chart like what's up on the screen there that has the monitoring report,

[50:06] has the date whether or not it's in compliance and any notes about it.

[50:09] Like the third one down you can see that there's a partial compliance.

[50:13] And on the right-hand note it talks about non-compliance and then when it came into compliance or when it's scheduled to come back

[50:19] are back to Karen's question of who's monitoring it's another place where

[50:24] when's it scheduled to come back. So it's kind of just taking her

[50:27] to the monitor but which is why the work that

[50:30] and in second you do is so important. Yes.

[50:32] Got all that down for the whole entire year. Yes. And so we're extracting that monitoring

[50:36] piece out and you're saying putting it on a separate kind of

[50:39] in watching that. Then you have a one-page

[50:42] running document and it also helps you know if you did it by year for example you'd know

[50:48] how long ago you might have monitored before

[50:50] if you get lacks about monitoring.

[50:53] So I started to, I set this up as a structure.

[50:57] Where does it live?

[50:58] It can live on the web, too.

[51:00] If you had a monitoring report section,

[51:03] then it could be right there, or on your board website,

[51:07] you might post your annual work plan

[51:10] and underneath it, your annual performance review,

[51:13] or call it whatever you'd like monitoring,

[51:15] Superintendent monitoring reports, some boards, I'm going to include Bianca in this conversation.

[51:22] Some boards put the monitoring report directly under the policy.

[51:26] So you have a policy and then a simple latest monitoring report or even two or three, you know,

[51:33] other boards have a separate link to the monitoring reports.

[51:36] You can do it either way you want. That's a matter of preference.

[51:40] But all of this should be public because your community should know what you're expecting of your superintendent and see how she's doing too and it's not

[51:50] It doesn't need to be the confidential

[51:53] We've done this survey in 50% of the people so they like that she wears green on Tuesday

[51:59] But 25% don't like that she wears green on Tuesdays. I mean, it's not that kind of a

[52:04] Sorry to be a little sarcastic there, but

[52:07] I think it's probably better on the web to have the policies in one place and the monitoring

[52:15] ports and other way. Maybe preceded by the policy, but it was written in the report

[52:20] so that I could tell.

[52:21] Somebody who's not familiar with the whole thing could misread the monitoring reports

[52:26] to somehow being policy.

[52:31] Okay, and then at the end of the year, this is what you're going to use to finalize your evaluation. Can I talk about that just for a second?

[52:45] Because the new district quality standards would accept just this as an evaluation, but if you want to go up a little level two, excellent.

[52:54] As a board, then they recommend that you actually identify three mutually agreeable goals.

[53:02] I don't know if the number three is in there.

[53:04] They recommend that you identify mutually agreeable goals with the superintendent,

[53:08] and so you'd also have to build that.

[53:10] We didn't do that.

[53:11] So you're going to practice this.

[53:13] So this plus those goals will constitute your evaluation.

[53:18] And did we decide on if there is an update or a shift on the work plan, who was monitoring the work plan or updating it?

[53:27] So I went through working with Jean and Summer and added any of the substance to the change any of the substance to what I added the policies.

[53:37] Next to it, to everything is referencing and I sent it to Jen and Stephanie.

[53:43] And then I was going to put it on the agenda for our next meeting for you to we approve it.

[53:50] Okay, what I'm wondering though, is that a board maintained work plan or a school?

[53:55] It's kind of your board administrative support maintained work plan.

[54:00] So how do things, I mean, how do things get on your agenda is already now that you want to bring up next month?

[54:07] You know, it's a combination of your board secretary and probably you're in an assistance.

[54:14] Reading those notes and catching it, Pam writing down a note, this needs to go on in

[54:19] September.

[54:20] You writing down a note, anyway, most often it comes back to the board admin assistant who

[54:27] prepares who does the physical preparation of the packet.

[54:33] You know, if you carry this with you, the work plan to every meeting and you just made

[54:36] know we're going to add that policy here, then Pam carries it back to the

[54:43] assistant who prepares the packet and that's kind of how you do it.

[54:47] I'm sure we need to delegate somebody in this group.

[54:50] Really, and then when you're building the agenda, go ahead, Pam.

[54:55] When the board makes a little change to the work plan and says, okay, I want to do it.

[54:59] Does the board have to then re-vote on the work plan?

[55:03] I don't think it's a revode if it's by consensus, so I mean if everyone says yes that's coming back.

[55:10] I don't think you have to take action on that.

[55:13] Okay, great.

[55:14] And ultimately the chair, you authorize the chair to ultimately make the decisions around the agenda anyway.

[55:24] I think maybe we discussed this back.

[55:26] We were adopted adopting the policies.

[55:28] if you look under policy 4.3.1, it says the annual work plan will be presented at the

[55:38] medium of the board prior to the start of the new school year. I think we weren't quite sure

[55:42] whether that was the right time but we weren't we didn't we couldn't think of a better time.

[55:47] So we'd like to know you. Yeah, and the future would probably be your your August meeting.

[55:52] And so you do have in your pocket.

[55:54] I did put it in your pocket.

[55:59] So was that a question?

[56:01] Yeah.

[56:01] We'll just comment.

[56:05] Well, we have time to talk about self evaluation.

[56:09] Yeah.

[56:10] I'm so excited about that.

[56:11] I'm so excited about that.

[56:13] So let's go into self evaluation.

[56:17] Also in your pocket,

[56:18] you have a one page document that says

[56:23] EG boards self evaluation.

[56:25] It says PG board because it's one that policy governance boards use.

[56:31] District quality standards, by the way, now also requires the boards monitor themselves.

[56:37] And this is filling this out will be your evidence that you have done it.

[56:43] So, courts that don't have a formal process like this will find it more difficult to do.

[56:48] But you're ahead of the game.

[56:51] So I created this document and these are my recommended questions on where you begin, but they might not work for you.

[57:00] Or over time as you evolve and get better at this, they might not work for you.

[57:05] But as you're just starting off, these are the questions I recommend it.

[57:08] We're all board members prepared and participating.

[57:12] Did the board follow the board agenda and remain in the role of governance instead of operations?

[57:18] did the board refer to any policies tonight. Herp has at least twice. Did the board

[57:23] focus its work toward the future of the district and achieving its sins? Did the board

[57:29] identify any opportunities to link to its owners? And did any future training topics

[57:34] come up as a need or desire of the board? Now, if the answer to four or five or six is

[57:41] No, that's not wrong.

[57:44] I mean, maybe your meeting agenda wasn't conducive.

[57:49] You just met to approve a bid, and it was a special meeting,

[57:53] and that was the only agenda item.

[57:54] You're maybe didn't need to do these.

[57:57] And that's OK.

[57:58] But it makes you think about, particularly the first three,

[58:02] did we follow the agenda?

[58:04] Did we remain in the role of governance?

[58:07] And kind of did we actually use our policies

[58:10] if we got stuck and weren't sure what to do.

[58:14] You can, and the way you would do this is I would either, I would, Charlene could designate

[58:25] somebody to kind of pay attention during the meeting to this, can be the same person all

[58:30] the time, or you could rotate the responsibility.

[58:34] And then at the end of the meeting, that person kind of walks through the questions, everyone

[58:39] gives input, but that person was really paying attention.

[58:43] Did we officially put her in that role?

[58:44] I think we did.

[58:46] I think we did.

[58:48] I think we did.

[58:48] You were seconded.

[58:50] Karen.

[58:51] I just have a question on number one.

[58:54] Yeah.

[58:54] It feels to me that that is a board member for taking another board member.

[59:00] And I don't think it's appropriate.

[59:02] I mean, we're all elected.

[59:03] Some people don't necessarily vocalize everything.

[59:06] It doesn't mean they're not paying attention, they're not participating in their own way, but not everybody likes to speak publicly.

[59:15] So I just find that offensive and could see where that could lead to more animosity between board members because I'm monitoring what Kathy is doing.

[59:26] Oh, I don't think Kathy was prepared tonight.

[59:29] I mean, that to me is just not appropriate.

[59:31] Any thoughts?

[59:32] What about engaged instead of participating?

[59:35] I think Karen's got a point.

[59:37] Yeah.

[59:39] I like engaged better, I mean.

[59:40] Versus.

[59:41] This is your document.

[59:43] So, yeah.

[59:43] We're board members prepared and engaged in the meeting.

[59:47] We're just engaged.

[59:48] And once in a while life happens, you might come not prepared.

[59:53] But you're still engaged, you know, but if you have a board member who never comes prepared,

[59:58] that becomes obvious.

[59:59] Right.

[59:59] Thank you.

[1:00:00] I think what this is also trying to achieve is we have this information in the packet and if you come to the board trying and we have lengthy discussions about stuff that you've already been kind of provided, we're trying to avoid that.

[1:00:13] That's I think the crux of what that is trying to do.

[1:00:16] But what is it that bothers people about discussion at the board meeting? I mean, we only made once a month. We don't have any committee meetings.

[1:00:25] What is the problem with having discussions?

[1:00:28] I mean, I might, I read through the packet,

[1:00:31] but I might not understand clearly what other people think

[1:00:35] I'd like to maybe hear what other people feel about a policy

[1:00:39] or what they're understanding is or actions that we hear about.

[1:00:46] I just, to answer that, I'm thinking, and her, go ahead.

[1:00:50] Do you want to go first?

[1:00:51] I'm thinking that because in the future, the agendas are going to be packed with things

[1:00:57] that we need to talk about, at the meeting, that we're hoping that some of the things

[1:01:01] that we don't need to discuss are going to be in the pack that you've read at home.

[1:01:05] So then when you come here, we're prepared to talk about the stuff that's on the agendas

[1:01:08] to get that business done, because if we are talking about things that are just in the packet,

[1:01:15] you know what I'm saying, it would take away from the time that we have to talk about the items

[1:01:19] are actually on the agenda that should be more if there's going to be that much on the agenda

[1:01:23] than maybe we should go to two meetings a month. I mean, I don't know of an agenda where

[1:01:30] we've had where there was too much on there to discuss anything.

[1:01:36] What things, yeah, the type of things that are on the agenda are going to be different than

[1:01:39] what they were in the past. So we are going to bring up topics like what's in legislature

[1:01:45] and discussions about that could take up some time to discuss those things because we want

[1:01:49] And here, what you're thinking about those things, if we have things that are simply in the

[1:01:56] packet that you can read, that kind of takes away that time.

[1:01:59] So we have more time to talk about legislative things, possibly that are coming up.

[1:02:04] Herb?

[1:02:04] I don't know whether this is what Karen's talking about.

[1:02:06] But let's say the packet describes renovating the immediate school kitchen and says there's

[1:02:12] going to be four sinks.

[1:02:15] I would hate to have a spend much time discussing it, whether four is the right number

[1:02:18] of sinks when another item on the agenda is what are the pros and cons of merging with

[1:02:24] neighboring districts?

[1:02:26] Well, I think you have a good point there, but in committee meetings, we would have had the

[1:02:32] opportunity in a building meeting to discuss whether four sinks are necessary and, you know,

[1:02:37] where is the money coming from all of those things?

[1:02:40] I mean, you can just move on.

[1:02:45] I was going to say I think one of the big differences is that I look at the superintendent report and that

[1:02:52] What I did today was read it

[1:02:56] Like a good kid and then

[1:03:00] And it didn't have any questions, but maybe you'd done would have a question about or you know, are you a care and are

[1:03:06] Brandy has a question about the superintendent's report. It's not Pam giving us the report here orally

[1:03:11] It's that we've read it and we're like, oh

[1:03:13] No, I don't remember what I read. We can't give a good example, but I might have a question about something. You know, I mean, so like I think that's the difference, right?

[1:03:20] Is that we're just we can still talk about that. So the members like the public aren't going to be hearing pams report. No. Well, it's in the minutes. So they can they can read it.

[1:03:32] Right, but they're not going to hear about it at the board meeting.

[1:03:35] Right, because this board is for our

[1:03:37] for us to get our work done.

[1:03:39] This board meeting is for us as board members.

[1:03:43] Would, wouldn't, when Pam's report also be publicly available ahead of the meeting?

[1:03:47] Well, it's in the packet, too, right?

[1:03:49] Was that in the board packet?

[1:03:51] Cassie.

[1:03:52] I think a good example would be, say, there's information about legislation that's either gone through

[1:03:58] or is coming up and then we come in and discuss it, so everyone knows what it is.

[1:04:01] And who is going to be reporting on that?

[1:04:03] Well, it would be in the packet if it's for discussion, it would be in the packet.

[1:04:07] So we'd be familiar with where that legislation was when we come into the meeting.

[1:04:12] But who's doing time is preparing her monitoring the legislation?

[1:04:16] Pam, usually it's me.

[1:04:19] It might be that there's something in her superintendents report.

[1:04:22] Legislation is a good example that she does want to verbally speak to at that part of the agenda.

[1:04:27] But she's not going to read the whole report there.

[1:04:29] You know, the date of school's opening or the date of open houses, it's written.

[1:04:33] She doesn't need to.

[1:04:34] So it's really about discussion is limited towards governance-based, future-focused needs of the board, and not what's already passed.

[1:04:45] But I think this isn't a foreseen, so we're not going to spend time on foreseen.

[1:04:49] That's really operations.

[1:04:51] But I think that the board can't forget the fact that we're elected by the public and the public does have a right to know what's going on.

[1:04:59] should be able to listen to the school board and know from there what's going on.

[1:05:07] I mean, lots of times Pam will tell us we don't know necessarily know there's an open

[1:05:12] house here or there's this going on and we want some of us want to be actively involved

[1:05:18] with the schools and go to these things but if we don't know about them and have the time

[1:05:23] in the public I mean they can't rely on the kids bringing home information but you will

[1:05:28] about it because you'll put it in a report.

[1:05:30] So if you read what about the public.

[1:05:32] Same thing.

[1:05:33] Yeah, they can read the report, but usually it's the schools

[1:05:36] that lay that out in the public.

[1:05:38] But if there is something that goes beyond parents

[1:05:41] that you really want people to attend,

[1:05:42] that might be something that rises to Pam saying it.

[1:05:46] I mean, that's just something you're going to work out over time.

[1:05:50] What's high-level information that you really want public?

[1:05:53] Have you appointed your representative to act 173

[1:05:56] to the merger committee?

[1:05:57] OK.

[1:05:57] So, when you do that, for example, you're going to really want to spend some time discussing the boundaries that that person has to live in.

[1:06:09] What are the values that Rutland City Public Schools wants that representative to bring to that committee?

[1:06:14] What are your bright lines that that representative cannot cross for you?

[1:06:19] Equitable access, for example, rigorous academics.

[1:06:22] whatever it is, I can give you a sample charge language if you want to play with it, but you

[1:06:28] might want to spend, that's going to be discussion. And your community should be hearing that

[1:06:33] discussion. What do you feel is really important as you enter these merger discussions that

[1:06:39] you're newly appointed representative is representing you on. And how often you're going to hear

[1:06:46] from that person and those conversations you need to be having versus spending time on things

[1:06:56] that are kind of a done deal and not really the boards to do.

[1:07:01] Does that make sense to you guys?

[1:07:07] Thank you so much.

[1:07:08] Thank you so much.

[1:07:11] Or what I just do.

[1:07:13] Okay, you were volunteer.

[1:07:13] Thank you so much.

[1:07:16] For helping us with this monitoring.

[1:07:19] I self evaluation.

[1:07:23] So again, the questions here are also to help us.

[1:07:27] Stay, you know.

[1:07:30] In our lane with policy governance. And those questions there will help you answer number 2. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I think number 2 is the one where we struggle. Sure with. So I think making sure that we kind of follow that.

[1:07:46] And I know that I know that Karen wasn't present for much of the writing of the policies, but give it a little bit of time. See if it becomes effective for you, right?

[1:07:55] It isn't making sense at the moment, but I think it will over time.

[1:07:58] I mean, under evidence noted, did you have in mind something more than just a yes or a no there?

[1:08:06] Yeah, probably like identify ways the board remained at the governance level or identify times they moved into operations.

[1:08:14] Just some general short notes, this is a document that can be larger or smaller, you know, doesn't have to be this one page grid.

[1:08:22] Yeah, I'm trying to reduce my workload.

[1:08:24] Yeah.

[1:08:26] There are no bullets, it's really just a discussion with the meeting.

[1:08:31] You can't be to just yes or no, I know that it's not like you're green, even getting

[1:08:36] the entire board just to fill this out with something considered effort and the more people

[1:08:41] have to write the more likely they are not to fill it up.

[1:08:44] No, I recommend that you don't have everyone fill it out.

[1:08:47] Just take five minutes at the end of the meeting, Herb, you walk through these questions,

[1:08:51] quick discussion.

[1:08:52] And does anyone concerned about board members being prepared and engaged?

[1:08:57] Is that an issue we had tonight?

[1:08:58] No.

[1:08:59] Okay, move on.

[1:09:00] Did the board follow the board agenda and remain in the role of governance rather than

[1:09:04] Operations?

[1:09:04] And that you'll have more discussion.

[1:09:06] I think that Hark's back to something hearing was talking about.

[1:09:10] We do it.

[1:09:11] We prepared to criticize our own performances of board, but I'm skeptical that we're going to have

[1:09:20] Open discussion of, for example, the very first question, I think this ought to be filled out privately.

[1:09:30] Or drop the question.

[1:09:33] Well, it's an important question, but I think we're going to get more honest.

[1:09:36] The answer is that people can them into one person anonymously, probably.

[1:09:43] It's fine, and I can make a consensus of what I'm hearing and say.

[1:09:47] It seems the board as a whole feels that you're not coming to

[1:09:52] the meetings prepared. Can we please prepared next meeting I'm not going right. It's not really intended to say

[1:10:00] Kathy clearly didn't read the

[1:10:05] Open house was so I know she did

[1:10:09] It's not intended to be it's a it's a it's a off-to-score that one somewhere in your sense. You know is Kathy I mean

[1:10:16] Charlotte, the only one speaking at the meeting, that's a problem. She thinks so too. That's why she signed this to her.

[1:10:23] You know, or people kind of engaged in the discussion like you are tonight. I mean tonight you get the thumbs up.

[1:10:29] People are engaged in this discussion.

[1:10:33] And just a reminder, your superintendent has a policy that you gave her that she must tell you, and this is where the student reps can too.

[1:10:41] She must tell you, um, if she notices that you have broken your own policy.

[1:10:47] And that's, you put on your policy 2.8.

[1:10:50] That we created a teller that she can tell us that we're not doing a great job.

[1:10:55] So I mean, as you're going through it, you might want to say, do you have any suggestions?

[1:11:00] Love that.

[1:11:00] Or do you have any observations for us?

[1:11:02] You're superintendent.

[1:11:04] And you are empowered to tell us.

[1:11:07] It we're not doing a good job.

[1:11:09] Holy of power and courage.

[1:11:11] Encourage and empowered, but you might want to read the policies first, so you know what I'm going to go.

[1:11:16] Mirror back and then Peter, so I know this is asking a lot, not not of us here.

[1:11:25] I think in people in general, like to self reflect.

[1:11:29] And maybe we, I know when I've gone out of bounds, generally, maybe not in the exact moment.

[1:11:39] You know, so I think it's a good exercise to like self-reflect and particularly on one and two, right?

[1:11:47] Obviously the rest of those are kind of what we did as a group a little more benign.

[1:11:53] But I think one and two are a little bit more self-reflected.

[1:11:57] And I'll use Christina as an example. You don't say a whole lot, but you are always engaged.

[1:12:02] So I think your point, you know, Karen is well taken, right?

[1:12:05] like, you know, when you do say something, we know it's, there's something big coming.

[1:12:12] It's just getting, and maybe it's like a card with just a smaller questions, you know,

[1:12:19] maybe you can start out simple with yes and nose, and people can just do that at your desk,

[1:12:24] you know, yes or no, and then give them to me, and I can make a consensus that if the meeting

[1:12:31] like horrible, I guess everybody's going to say nobody was prepared, and I can say, okay,

[1:12:35] next time, maybe we should try and, I don't know what I would say. But I guess we have to do this

[1:12:41] self-inannuation. So let's make a go of it as best we can. And you would just say, okay, let's,

[1:12:47] let's make a focus on being engaged. And it's really the big discussions that you're concerned

[1:12:52] about, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You want to hear more than the same two or three voices.

[1:12:58] Yes.

[1:12:59] Yeah.

[1:13:00] Yeah.

[1:13:00] You can't hear anything else.

[1:13:02] Just a comment.

[1:13:04] I know I'm not on the board, so I'm not.

[1:13:07] No more place.

[1:13:09] Since similar self-evaluations done in some of the other committees in the city, sometimes

[1:13:14] I do think it's rotated.

[1:13:16] So, you know, when meeting it's hurt, maybe next meeting it's it's Karen, and then we

[1:13:20] get a different perspective on it, and not all the responsibility of the finger pointing

[1:13:25] I don't know what kind of one board member, and it's just giving other people opportunity to weigh in, no.

[1:13:33] Just a suggestion.

[1:13:34] And can I ask the question, are you saying that, because there's two, I guess, methods of doing it.

[1:13:40] Either we all have our questions at our desks and we kind of fill out the card and put it here and I can kind of just review them quickly for self evaluation as a group.

[1:13:48] Or are you saying, one person to make the observation for the group and reports it?

[1:13:52] is it? I'm, then you rotate people who do that. Right. That's my question, I guess.

[1:13:58] So the way Debbie does it. And she was going to drop in tonight, but I don't know if she'll make it.

[1:14:05] She, at the start of her meeting, she did, she's no longer chair, but when she was chair at the start of her meeting,

[1:14:10] she would pick a board member to be the observer for the night. Okay. And that person

[1:14:17] And then does do their own report out.

[1:14:22] However, you also could have the no card at each place with people take their own and they

[1:14:28] can add to that observation, and they're just keeping track along the way, not collating,

[1:14:33] not collecting, but yeah, but I did notice that we drifted off into another different topic

[1:14:40] tonight.

[1:14:42] So, and maybe that person didn't notice and didn't comment.

[1:14:44] Because we are going to discuss it as a group every meeting so I don't know how you guys feel would you

[1:14:50] Preferred have your own card and answer a couple three questions or four questions and we talk about it as a group

[1:14:57] Or would you prefer to have a rotating person?

[1:15:00] Kind of make an observation, and they just kind of bring it up and we discuss it as a group still. Either way, we're still going to discuss it as a group. I'm not sure.

[1:15:08] I prefer individual cards. I think I've already explained why.

[1:15:17] Gotcha. Something anonymous, where it was like just a quick checklist, that way, you couldn't even tell handwriting or whatever and case.

[1:15:24] I would do that, yeah.

[1:15:25] anonymous is fine yeah. Try it one way see if it works if it starts taking too long

[1:15:33] try it another way see if that works I mean it doesn't have to be these exact

[1:15:37] questions too you might like I said you might change them over time it's really

[1:15:40] just a self-reflection on how effective you're being. I don't know if it's something

[1:15:44] that people even want to do by the type of thing where like it doesn't have to be

[1:15:48] Google Docs because their program or like the questions are always there and I mean

[1:15:51] I'm guessing we all have smart phones or like that we could just quickly and then no one

[1:15:57] even has to worry about writing or handwriting and you can read it because it's

[1:16:02] and but it would just be all there like it doesn't say who's connected to it you know like when

[1:16:06] like parents have to fill out things and the person gets all the information like she

[1:16:10] people can just yeah and then it would just be the band would be right no one has to like

[1:16:14] collect it just take her phones it can be on the same Google doc and you just add each meeting on top of

[1:16:18] is meeting just a little technical difficulty not though because we with our board

[1:16:24] emails we can't access Google Docs we can't have a shared is that something like

[1:16:29] Patricia code you can't because I think we can we I mean can we just

[1:16:38] like Google or I don't think you can but that I don't think there's gotta be a way

[1:16:45] around it.

[1:16:46] Who's going to be another?

[1:16:47] Are you thinking about, you would collect the information and then share it at the beginning

[1:16:51] of the next meeting or you're just going to do it a quick thing and I was trying to think

[1:16:55] about logistics of that too, like how am I going to collect it, kind of read 11 cards and

[1:17:01] then kind of regurgitate it out and say, right, okay, it seems that we're going to consensus

[1:17:06] that we've all participated in prepared.

[1:17:08] It seems that we all felt that we all stayed in our policy governance, that's I'm thinking about that as we speak.

[1:17:21] I like the idea of cards and just maybe put the questions on the desk so everybody knows and you just fill out your card.

[1:17:29] I think it's going to be faster than anything else.

[1:17:34] What do I do with these? Are they just for us? Are they public?

[1:17:37] They really are just for you and and they will culminate and you're response in your district quality standards report annually

[1:17:45] They will what in our culminate. Oh, I thought I didn't think you said that word and like I don't know that word, but culminate

[1:17:54] culminate in our

[1:17:57] District quality standards. Those are the things that we met with last year and we've been through

[1:18:03] When does that do

[1:18:10] When you did this before and people filled it out, was it collected and read out that night?

[1:18:16] It wasn't.

[1:18:17] I think Charlene's idea is the best way to do it.

[1:18:22] The only problem we found at the iconic and green is that by the end of the meeting nobody wanted to stick around and analyze this.

[1:18:31] And what we went to doing was the chair collected them, and then within a couple of days

[1:18:40] sent out, if there were any problems, usually there weren't.

[1:18:43] I mean, usually there was a bunch of yeses, unless it was a special meeting, and it just

[1:18:48] says, you point out, a special meeting doesn't necessarily have discussions or opportunities

[1:18:53] to link to the owners, and if we had the patients to stick around after the meeting, I think

[1:18:59] make more sense. I feel like the spirit of maybe what was happening that night would be

[1:19:08] better discussed if we could talk about it then. You're right. And I think you're right.

[1:19:13] And the same people who are all involved would still be there to be part of the discussion

[1:19:17] where's if it's the next meeting then there might be a different group of people there and you

[1:19:23] kind of forget or not forget but the feelings the emotions are still not there and if it's something

[1:19:27] He's strongly about it.

[1:19:29] I'd like to discuss it at the time.

[1:19:31] Debbie, we're on board self evaluation

[1:19:33] and just the logistics of how it's actually done.

[1:19:37] And if I don't know if you could speak to how,

[1:19:41] I know how you have done it, but I don't know what you're doing now.

[1:19:43] And like the question we have right now

[1:19:45] is there seems to be a consensus

[1:19:47] that people would like to fill out the questions

[1:19:50] and turn it into Charlene and Charlene

[1:19:52] could quickly summarize and report out

[1:19:57] but we seem to have an issue with staying on the agenda,

[1:19:59] but otherwise we're fine tonight.

[1:20:01] I mean, that's, you know, you have some full of sentence.

[1:20:05] Do you have any experience in the experiential?

[1:20:08] So are we talking about doing a meeting, self-evilation?

[1:20:11] So we're doing one in every meeting, right?

[1:20:13] Yeah, and having that be on the agenda,

[1:20:15] which is great.

[1:20:16] It's what it's the end.

[1:20:19] I think the way we're doing it now works really well,

[1:20:22] but it doesn't mean you have to do it this way,

[1:20:24] but the way we do it is, we just define,

[1:20:26] Have you told them how we do it or not?

[1:20:29] I think I did.

[1:20:29] I don't want to repeat what I said.

[1:20:31] But I'm not sure if you read it out that night.

[1:20:33] Does the monitor that you assign it to?

[1:20:36] Do they?

[1:20:36] Are they the only ones?

[1:20:38] Hey, so that's there.

[1:20:39] We have like the official meeting of evaluator.

[1:20:42] We'll take notes throughout the meeting.

[1:20:44] And on each of those questions.

[1:20:46] And then when we get to that agenda item,

[1:20:48] he'll read what he wrote.

[1:20:50] That will add things if you think of it.

[1:20:52] If we think of them,

[1:20:54] And then he submits it to the executive.

[1:20:58] I think some of the conversation we had was having a board member, maybe, evaluating

[1:21:07] another board member's performance or having hard feelings.

[1:21:11] So we're trying to avoid that kind of scenario.

[1:21:14] I don't know if it ever came up.

[1:21:16] If it wasn't usually get personal, the questions are framed, did the board do this, did the board do that?

[1:21:23] Oh, we say we're all board members so how about changing that part too did the board the board was the board is engaged in preparing

[1:21:35] Can

[1:21:39] you share it can you later share your form with us?

[1:21:43] Yeah, thank you her form is a similar just saying her form is a similar conform but different questions

[1:21:49] As they're starting out, I had different questions than what you're using right now. So yeah, she can share it

[1:21:55] you might want to adapt it, but yeah. Interestingly, you do it on a on a Google

[1:22:01] drive, right? Yeah. And it's not, it's not a decision that you're making. I don't

[1:22:08] want to step on your tech directors' toes at all, but it's something to think about.

[1:22:11] It's not, you're not taking action out of the public eye. So the experience I've

[1:22:19] What is it?

[1:22:20] If I'm sent something from school and I can access it and that is a decision by our

[1:22:27] tech person that no one...

[1:22:30] Who's outside anyone who's not an employee of the district can access the Google Drive. So we have, like, so there's the RCPS.org, we're a

[1:22:40] Rutland City Public School. So we have our own domain. I see. So we don't have a can. You're domain. Have it

[1:22:45] own Google Drive? You don't want to go down the path of, do we? Do we want to do that? Yeah, you don't want

[1:22:51] to go down the path of having any discussion online that the public is not access, does not have access to. This

[1:22:57] is just filling out a form and it's being reported publicly after. I don't know. I'm not

[1:23:01] Patricia. I don't want to step on. You hired her for a reason.

[1:23:06] Well, and also maybe we want to get a legal opinion. Yeah. Maybe we just want to use cards.

[1:23:11] I'm not even. That's what I think. I mean, that seems to be easier.

[1:23:17] I'm just trying to be tired. I was just trying to be tidy. That's all.

[1:23:20] Because if you were right there, no would have to worry. It was just to make it easier.

[1:23:23] And it's just for us anyway, right?

[1:23:25] It's just so that we can continue to improve and make it.

[1:23:28] Yeah, it was just to make me, and didn't

[1:23:30] have to worry about people reading people's writing.

[1:23:32] I'm not offended on.

[1:23:33] We would just have to use our own personal emails,

[1:23:36] or our own personal emails in order to get a shared Google

[1:23:40] document going.

[1:23:41] And I try to keep all my stuff.

[1:23:43] Yeah, I do recommend that you keep it all.

[1:23:45] So that's not a good choice.

[1:23:47] Time check.

[1:23:48] I did cut into your next agenda item.

[1:23:50] So I'm claiming that I have until 7.45.

[1:23:52] Okay, based on your original, because your monitoring policy is already taking care of.

[1:23:58] But that means we have about 20 minutes max left.

[1:24:02] And what I'd still like to get done is talk about student reps on the board.

[1:24:06] Yeah.

[1:24:06] And then maybe give you an example of doing a scenario or two.

[1:24:11] Yeah.

[1:24:11] Is that okay?

[1:24:12] Do you feel solid enough for a place to start on your board-self evaluation?

[1:24:17] Yes.

[1:24:18] And modify it as you go.

[1:24:21] Excellent.

[1:24:21] everyone was engaged by the way I just went and put that up. Okay so I was asked a question

[1:24:29] about student reps on the board and many school boards and Vermont have and are encouraged

[1:24:34] to have student reps on the board but what is the role of the student rep and the question I

[1:24:38] was asked is what is the role of a student rep on a policy governance court in particular.

[1:24:42] Debbie and I do a monthly drop in meeting for policy governance boards virtually and this was

[1:24:50] topic that came up last year.

[1:24:52] So it's on several PG boards, mines.

[1:24:56] So the statute does allow, for months

[1:24:58] statute does allow for student reps.

[1:25:02] They are not elected by owners, generally they

[1:25:04] are appointed by you, the school board.

[1:25:05] They don't go on the ballot.

[1:25:07] They don't go through a public election.

[1:25:11] They are encouraged to participate in discussion.

[1:25:16] Voting, however, is an advisory vote.

[1:25:18] And you decide if you went them to vote or not.

[1:25:21] So, because they're not elected by voters,

[1:25:26] their vote doesn't count the same way yours would,

[1:25:30] because you're elected.

[1:25:31] Karen?

[1:25:32] I would just say I would welcome any student input

[1:25:36] from either of you, you have anything.

[1:25:38] But I do feel strongly that voting should not happen

[1:25:43] since they are not elected.

[1:25:45] Okay. Thank you.

[1:25:46] So, it can, and that's up to your board, and I'm going to talk about policy.

[1:25:50] So, what to do is I recommend that you actually add a policy to your policy governance

[1:25:56] policies that clearly define.

[1:25:58] Just like you define the role of the superintendent, you define the role of the board,

[1:26:01] you define the role of the chair, define the role of the student rep.

[1:26:05] So, I'm going to show you a couple of sample policies, this one's very tiny print, because

[1:26:12] it's long.

[1:26:12] But just what a couple of other school districts has done, have done.

[1:26:18] In both cases, I'm using Wenuski and Mount Mansfield.

[1:26:21] They added to their governance policies the four-pointed ones.

[1:26:26] So, Wenuski put it, created a added a bullet under 4.1 called Student Representative on the board.

[1:26:35] They start with saying that they will include direct representation from students by incorporating two students in the regularly scheduled board meetings.

[1:26:42] within the what from at law allows and then they define student

[1:26:47] representatives are selected on a yearly basis through a process approved by the

[1:26:52] superintendent. Student reps shall agree to serve for two years. One

[1:26:56] rep is in our 11th grade or below and the other rep is so what at least one

[1:27:01] rep is in 11th grade of below and the reason they put that there is that there's

[1:27:04] some continuity, some turnover. Student reps shall be trained. Student reps

[1:27:10] have the opportunity in their case they chose and what Karen saying is she's not comfortable with it.

[1:27:15] You don't have to be. But they said that student reps can cast an eyesary votes.

[1:27:20] Student reps, they pay their students. I'm sorry to tell you guys this.

[1:27:25] They add only what stipend they pay but anyway they pay their student reps a stipend. That's the only

[1:27:29] district I know of it does that. They don't even pay us. I know right.

[1:27:33] Exactly. I know how you do. Student reps shall be awarded academic credit in their case.

[1:27:39] Students will be provided a mentor from a month or a board member so they know what's going on and the board establishes internal practices

[1:27:48] So that's how they chose to write theirs a shorter one

[1:27:54] Is Mount Mansfield. They just say that

[1:27:58] This is a whole separate bullet. They created a whole separate

[1:28:01] Policy for this student representation provides

[1:28:04] provide district wide perspective to the larger board.

[1:28:07] They attend and participate in all board meetings.

[1:28:10] They can cast advisory votes again.

[1:28:12] You could choose, oh, I'm just kidding.

[1:28:14] I'm not saying you have to.

[1:28:15] They represent student perspective to the board,

[1:28:19] not just personal reactions.

[1:28:20] And again, they ask for commitment of two years.

[1:28:23] So if you just think through,

[1:28:24] what would you like your student reps to do?

[1:28:27] And just write it up and add it to your governance policies.

[1:28:32] I just like to ask the students how they feel about it.

[1:28:39] I think that we should be able to give input, but I'm fine not going and not having my

[1:28:44] boat count because we weren't elected by the public instead of we were elected by the student

[1:28:49] body, which is a very different demographic, who you get elected.

[1:28:54] Thank you.

[1:29:00] You know, I know that usually you give out your reports and maybe we're not doing that anymore either, but I would encourage you to speak up if you have something you feel strongly about or, you know, a problem or whatever that you feel should be brought to the board's attention.

[1:29:23] I think we need to do a better job of making sure that we ask for your voice as a whole.

[1:29:29] I think we've said that, I think, year after year after year, we've said that.

[1:29:33] And yet we, I don't know, I don't think because you're so respectful and just said that there's so nice and quiet.

[1:29:40] And that we don't often think of it.

[1:29:42] And I think it's important that we work harder to make sure we hear your voice.

[1:29:46] I know in other governing bodies that I've been involved in, with the, for example,

[1:29:54] the National Collegiate Athletic Association, the NCAA, they've looked to their student

[1:29:58] the advisory council.

[1:30:00] With significant weight, right? You know, with the student athlete leaders to help them to help advise governance policies and how they might run their organization.

[1:30:13] So I think, and it's, you know, I think, like you said, Karen, knowing what they say about this and then knowing what you say about other things is incredibly important. So that being said also, if you have other ideas.

[1:30:29] not to put you on the spot right now, but I think we can think and think about it, right?

[1:30:35] And bring things forward to a shared interview like?

[1:30:39] Thank you.

[1:30:39] We're having more open discussions about things like merger, consolidation, those types of topics.

[1:30:48] I think I can do a better job at giving you a heads up of these are the topics that we're going to be talking about,

[1:30:53] so that you can be thinking about your perspectives,

[1:30:57] so that you can offer those at meetings.

[1:31:01] I'm just curious either from Jean or from Karen.

[1:31:05] What are the problems with having student reps casting

[1:31:09] advisory on binding votes?

[1:31:13] Personal preference for a board.

[1:31:15] I don't have a forward one.

[1:31:18] Are we going to be continuing to do the reports going forward?

[1:31:22] Good question.

[1:31:24] If so, it would be considered incidental information, it would be listed under the superintendent's report in the packet.

[1:31:30] It would be weird.

[1:31:31] It also could be spoken.

[1:31:33] I mean, you can give them the floor for a couple minutes if you want.

[1:31:36] But that's where it would go under the incidental reports.

[1:31:40] I think we should include them.

[1:31:42] I mean, I like hearing about what's going on in the school.

[1:31:45] I think it's an important piece.

[1:31:47] But as a newbie, my impression was that the reports, the student reps, red, or actually

[1:31:51] written not by them, but by the principles anyway, why don't we have the principles reports

[1:31:56] in the packet if we're going to have these things at all?

[1:32:00] I was in the impression that we would just have their reports as part of the packet under your,

[1:32:06] maybe before or after, whatever, because you're not reading your report either.

[1:32:10] So that's good, it's going to be in the packet.

[1:32:12] We'll be in the packet, but then there's also items from my superintendent's report that I might highlight.

[1:32:18] I wonder if we want to, I don't know.

[1:32:22] I think we should highlight them and have them give the report.

[1:32:26] But we're highlighting it for whom?

[1:32:29] For the public, for us.

[1:32:32] But I feel like, and forgive me if I'm going to do and find this board is this meeting is for us as a board and not directly for the public.

[1:32:41] So the, yet the information is going to be provided to the public and to all of us, we are here to do our, our business, the board business.

[1:32:52] Peter.

[1:32:53] The question about advisory votes, because I don't understand it.

[1:32:58] So say they were allowed and pass on the advisory vote.

[1:33:03] Oh, towel is basically, your votes are going to override whatever.

[1:33:10] Right, they're meaningless, basically.

[1:33:11] They're not just the way for them to voice in the opinion, it's just the way for them to voice on behalf of the students and by half of the young people.

[1:33:20] You know, this is what we think the young people, if they could vote on it, and they won't carry, wouldn't say.

[1:33:27] I would think that that, even though they're not elected, but being represented for the student side, I have trouble seeing why that would not be a good thing.

[1:33:39] Just a point of clarity, both of them are elected by the student body, they are not elected

[1:33:44] by the taxpayers, but they are elected by the student body, so just to note that.

[1:33:50] It's their job as a student representative, so they are supposed to be representing those

[1:33:55] who elected them, even though it's, I don't think it would be a disparage on public health.

[1:34:00] Feels like valuable input to me.

[1:34:02] I mean, as long as it's advisory, I know some districts or some counties are looking to actually have their vote count.

[1:34:12] I totally disagree with that.

[1:34:13] At the moment, that's not that big advisory.

[1:34:16] Right.

[1:34:17] But, you know, I want them to make sure they feel comfortable doing it.

[1:34:22] I mean.

[1:34:23] So, so Fian Daniel, let me show you kind of what that might look like.

[1:34:28] Let's say the board is having a discussion about the use of cell phones in school.

[1:34:33] Your old discussion now.

[1:34:36] And whether or not there should be a policy and what it might say,

[1:34:39] you as students might have a different perspective on the impact of that policy

[1:34:45] than the adults sitting around the table.

[1:34:48] And so you might say, well, I'm not sure if that your policy is going to work because of XYZ.

[1:34:53] see. They'll appreciate hearing it. Might not change the policy. And it might. I had a student

[1:35:01] wrap for us to take an afternoon off because the transportation department was on strike

[1:35:09] and he felt we should support now. And the board agreed with them. So even if you don't

[1:35:17] have a vote, knowing the impact of policies they want to pass or knowing the impact,

[1:35:23] Just knowing how you hear it is helpful information for the board and it may take you some time to feel comfortable speaking out

[1:35:32] But eventually you'll kind of get it and go, hmm, that didn't sound right to me as a student.

[1:35:40] I don't know who was first. I was looking down.

[1:35:43] Okay.

[1:35:44] All right. So, my perspective or the way that I might encourage us to make this decision is to say,

[1:35:51] We're not eight, not that we're making a decision right now, but to guide us as we move forward with any ideas.

[1:35:56] You might have any ideas, we might have, as to say, why do we have them, right?

[1:36:01] So we have them in my mind, which is probably different from other people's mind for two reasons.

[1:36:06] One, to represent the student voice, obviously, right? That's why you're called a student representative.

[1:36:11] To represent the students of Rutland City Public Schools.

[1:36:16] I also see it as a way to encourage growth in leadership and, you know, an educational

[1:36:23] opportunity for them, right?

[1:36:25] So I think I don't know if we define that anywhere, you know, but I think that would be

[1:36:32] smart for us to do is to define why, because then that might help us place them in a role.

[1:36:37] You know, it's difficult to give people a role somewhere without knowing why they're there,

[1:36:44] Right, you know, I think we want to know why you're here and I, you know, so I think we might want to talk about that maybe not right now, but another time and keep this on going and I think the discussion is great and I don't want you to feel like we're going to be calling on you.

[1:36:58] I'm in every meeting, so take a stance on something. What's your stance? It's nothing like that. We just want to encourage you to voice, you know, any kind of concerns that you may have as a student.

[1:37:09] So don't feel like you're going to be pressured into, take a stance on all topics, because not everything is something that you'd have to kind of weigh in on, but there might be something that we would love to hear from you.

[1:37:23] Kathy?

[1:37:24] Just the ease of retaining advisory.

[1:37:30] Volts in the minutes for future reference, should we need it? Sharing perspective is really important in the meeting at hand, but everything is sort of shortened in the minutes, which is appropriate, but by having an advisory vote, we're able to really solidify the students' voice and whatever the topic is, that they're giving an advisory vote.

[1:37:54] I think about some of the topics we've had in the past too, and I also want to be careful to protect them as well from having to make some kind of decisions or take stances on things that are

[1:38:06] Controversial maybe for them too, so I also have a feeling of protecting them as well. They can abstain as well.

[1:38:13] I don't want to pull them into something that would be disagreeable.

[1:38:19] Yeah, you're right, but of course any board member can abstain from any vote

[1:38:23] But I would think there might be times when a student rep would I actually want her or his vote

[1:38:29] In the minutes to say just talk to the other student the same well, here's here's what I told the board

[1:38:35] Not all if you don't if you don't it's okay

[1:38:38] Yeah, exactly

[1:38:41] Yeah, I'm just trying to weigh out those things. Yeah, there's and there then I mean such a good point is

[1:38:47] is like, do we need, if a person is under 18, is it really ethical to put a name and meeting notes?

[1:38:58] Like, I don't know.

[1:38:58] Yeah, your whole board meeting is public.

[1:39:01] So, okay.

[1:39:03] I don't, I don't think that's a problem.

[1:39:05] I think it's more important that you're offering an opportunity for an advisory vote

[1:39:11] and a student may choose not to take that opportunity.

[1:39:14] They can abstain.

[1:39:15] They may want to go back and talk to people about what you're talking about and don't have

[1:39:20] an opinion that night, you know, so they may just say, passing on this one.

[1:39:25] Karen.

[1:39:25] I would change my objection to them having an advisory vote.

[1:39:28] I don't have a problem with the advisory vote.

[1:39:31] But, you know, as you said, I think that we need to be careful how what their vote

[1:39:38] could be interpreted as, you know, if they always sighted with the board and just

[1:39:44] agreed with everything, then some people could come back and say, well, you're

[1:39:48] really, you know, why are you on there? You're not representing us. But I think

[1:39:52] under the superintendents report, we need to give them an opportunity to talk. I mean,

[1:40:00] if they don't have the experience of speaking in public, they're never going to

[1:40:05] comfortable, you know, weighing in on a policy that is probably going to be

[1:40:12] confident, computational or.

[1:40:13] It's up to me to give the opportunity to say, is there something you would like to add

[1:40:18] and make a pause for a second and ask, would you like to add anything and give you the space to do

[1:40:23] that? If you feel like you needed to, and if you don't, you don't, that's fine. You can move on,

[1:40:28] but maybe I just keep, keep some space there and ask the question. That way, you know, if you're

[1:40:34] saying I don't have anything to say at this time. What about when you say like any discussion

[1:40:40] like is that open for them to if they could add just just to know that you are welcome to speak to.

[1:40:48] So you don't have to feel like what about our student reps now? I have the rest of you. How do you

[1:40:53] feel? So you're not like, I'm done. It's fine. It's over here. Right. You just got shame. We just

[1:40:58] should we look at you and like yes yeah and the point would be if something occurs to Danielle

[1:41:06] when the topic is brought up there's nothing wrong with her raising your hand at the very

[1:41:10] beginning saying here's what I think about this because like what I just don't know

[1:41:16] I might give you a little for me sitting here very quietly and all of a sudden now

[1:41:22] but they don't get a copy of the packet do they should when they get here they do I think yeah

[1:41:28] And then we'll get it ahead of time. Do you get it ahead of time? Do you get it ahead of time?

[1:41:31] The packet.

[1:41:32] Did you get it?

[1:41:33] Did you get it?

[1:41:33] Yeah, we got it in there.

[1:41:35] Okay.

[1:41:37] Okay.

[1:41:38] Okay.

[1:41:39] So it sounds like you're interested in having a policy on student reps.

[1:41:43] And I heard several of the points that were in there.

[1:41:45] It sounds like you're interested in advisory.

[1:41:47] You're just not getting paid.

[1:41:48] You're not paying.

[1:41:50] You're paying the same as you.

[1:41:52] Okay.

[1:41:52] I mean, you don't have to add.

[1:41:54] That's right.

[1:41:56] No.

[1:41:56] I'm not going to do stipends, that's actually not so I'm not sure why they have that link with you there.

[1:42:03] You actually can't, the auditors don't like stipend.

[1:42:08] You're going to have them, I would change it to say that you want them to participate and I'll regular meetings.

[1:42:14] You might have especially student reps do not participate in executive session because the reason for executive session is executive.

[1:42:24] So they don't meet that threshold.

[1:42:30] Are you comfortable with having them serve a two-year term?

[1:42:34] Is that what you do to the blue now?

[1:42:35] Okay. And do you have any guidelines around one

[1:42:39] as a senior, one is not, or do you just, we always have.

[1:42:43] I mean, I think it's just been practice.

[1:42:46] So I could draft something for you that you could look at,

[1:42:49] based on this discussion.

[1:42:50] if you'd like to just save you some time.

[1:42:53] Or you could word Smith something yourself,

[1:42:55] so sign somebody here to drop them and I gave you two examples.

[1:43:01] Herb?

[1:43:01] I mean, what's their name?

[1:43:03] We'll policy on student reps.

[1:43:06] You want to word Smith something for us?

[1:43:07] Sure.

[1:43:08] Let me greet you.

[1:43:09] Ah, that's true.

[1:43:10] I'm so glad you joined the board.

[1:43:13] I don't think we had any policy.

[1:43:17] Say that again, Bianca.

[1:43:18] I don't think you previously had a policy.

[1:43:21] And then it's helpful for you guys as you're running for your student rap office or your

[1:43:26] people who follow you do, they know what the job description is, what's expected of them.

[1:43:33] So maybe right, they will be encouraged to share opinions.

[1:43:38] That does mean they have to, just encouraged you.

[1:43:40] So it is 745 and the other thing that I was going to do tonight is take you through a

[1:43:46] this scenario or two.

[1:43:48] Don't want it to lay your meeting.

[1:43:50] Do you want me to pop in at a future meeting and do it?

[1:43:53] OK.

[1:43:54] Roll.

[1:43:55] All right.

[1:43:56] Good discussion tonight, though.

[1:43:57] You really tackle three things.

[1:43:59] All right, so scenarios are really helpful.

[1:44:05] They are a simple habit that prevent a lot of trouble.

[1:44:08] And right now, you are learning how to work

[1:44:10] under this policy governance structure.

[1:44:12] It's new to you.

[1:44:13] So the idea of using scenarios, maybe not every meeting, your agendas might get full, and they probably take 15 minutes if you, you know, it doesn't have to take a long time, but it does fill in 15, 20 minutes of a board meeting.

[1:44:30] Maybe it's every other meeting, maybe it's looking at your agendas and seeing where you can fit it in, but even if you got a few in throughout the year, it's helpful.

[1:44:38] And, this is in the PowerPoint, you're basically when a situation comes up, our scenario comes up,

[1:44:45] or if you're deep-refing something that happened in a board meeting, the steps to walk through it are to ask yourself,

[1:44:52] is there a policy that already addresses this?

[1:44:55] Can I go back to, and tell you again my beekeeping scenario from Barsto?

[1:45:00] When the teachers came, talked to the board and said, you know, there's bees in this classroom, what are you board going to do about it, right?

[1:45:08] So the first thing the board should have done, didn't fit, should have, is there anything that addresses this in policy?

[1:45:15] Well, nothing in policy addresses bees, but you're asking yourself your first question on your sheep there.

[1:45:20] Is this an operational issue? I mean, is it really, as a board, are you all going to have to stand up and go look in this classroom and take care of the bees?

[1:45:29] Or you can look at your superintendent and say, this is an operations issue.

[1:45:34] So that's the first thing you ask, where it actually is addressed in policy.

[1:45:40] For that example, is board management delegation, where you state that the superintendent is in charge of the operations of the district.

[1:45:48] So now you know that.

[1:45:49] So according to the policy then, is this something delegated to the superintendent?

[1:45:55] Does this scenario reflect behavior consistent with your governance process and board management

[1:46:01] delegations policies?

[1:46:03] So if you send it to the superintendent, are you following your own policies?

[1:46:08] And what action if any should the board now take?

[1:46:11] And that example you take no action.

[1:46:13] Or you could say, superintendent, could you please look into this and bring us a report

[1:46:18] at the next meeting on what you find?

[1:46:20] just so that you're informed and you're letting your community know that you're hearing the concern and you're informed,

[1:46:26] but you're not taking action, you're putting the action where it belongs.

[1:46:31] Okay, so let's try one in real life.

[1:46:36] So I actually have a flow chart for this one for you.

[1:46:40] During a meeting, a topic comes up that's not on the agenda.

[1:46:43] I heard that said earlier today, it happens and everyone, it happens all the time.

[1:46:47] So a topic is not on the agenda. What happens next? What is your board said in relevant policies? The only one holding policies right now is her, so he might have to tell us.

[1:46:57] But what has your board already said in its policies about topics and agenda?

[1:47:23] know pressure her we talked about that earlier they are not on the web

[1:47:27] and they will be I don't know but they'll be I made note that we need to have

[1:47:34] policies and hard copy here yeah if I could help you you might

[1:47:42] look at your agenda building policy under the 4.0.

[1:47:49] Especially 4.3.

[1:47:51] And what does it say about agendas?

[1:47:55] Talks about the work plan.

[1:47:58] Talks about getting an item on the agenda.

[1:48:03] That's it, getting an item on an agenda.

[1:48:06] So topic comes up during the meeting that's not on the agenda.

[1:48:10] How does an item get on the agenda? You do have a policy that speaks to that.

[1:48:14] Yep, we do. May request an amendment, may recommend a request item for board discussion

[1:48:19] by submitting the item to the chair, no later than ten days before the agenda is to be warned.

[1:48:25] The chair, I think we had a question about this. In consultation with the clerk in the

[1:48:30] superintendent, we'll screen potential agenda items to ensure that they relate to the board's

[1:48:35] job description, and here's three screening questions, kind of like what's on our record here.

[1:48:44] Does this issue belong to the board of the superintendent, what category of policy does

[1:48:49] the issue relate to, and what is the board already said in this category and how is the

[1:48:53] issue related?

[1:48:55] I think 4.4, the board chairs roll also fits in here because it's up to the board to ensure

[1:49:02] the, I'm sorry, the chair to make sure the board behaves the way the board said it was going to.

[1:49:07] There's another policy that, yeah, so you've authorized the board to do that.

[1:49:12] Now, this is not a question that's up there.

[1:49:14] Why is it important that topics that just come up during a meeting are not discussed during the same meeting?

[1:49:22] First of all, give it a talk about it.

[1:49:23] You're not prepared to talk about it, right?

[1:49:26] What else?

[1:49:28] Your community might not like that topic, and they have noticed,

[1:49:31] so they can show up. You're supposed to give public notice of what you're discussing so that if the

[1:49:37] community wishes to weigh in they can do so. Less important, but you might also have a board member

[1:49:45] who has a commitment when someplace else that they'd like to fulfill, but if they knew this was

[1:49:51] going to ban the agenda, they'd ditch the other commitment and come. So your board also wins appropriate

[1:49:56] notice, right? And, you know, you may not have the information that you need, your superintendent

[1:50:03] hasn't had time to prepare for the background information, so there's another policy

[1:50:07] herb that might be affected. The superintendent must provide you with unbiased information

[1:50:11] when you're making decisions. You can bring up a topic to, I'd like to discuss this issue

[1:50:21] in the board meeting as opposed to tell the chair after, and the chair says, I'll take that

[1:50:25] consideration and you move on. And then if it's an appropriate topic, according to your screening

[1:50:30] questions, then you'll put it on the next agenda and that's fine. So it can come up but you

[1:50:37] don't get bogged down in it, you don't get stuck in it. We won't have long discussions about it.

[1:50:42] Right. So I just need your help to understand that that's what I will be trying to do is

[1:50:46] rather than information in advance.

[1:50:50] We'll move on.

[1:50:51] Yeah, yeah.

[1:50:52] OK.

[1:50:54] So the other questions, according to the Board's policies

[1:50:57] does the situation refer to something delegated

[1:51:00] to the superintendent, the answer is no.

[1:51:03] Is it behavior consistent with the Board's governance

[1:51:06] process in a large management delegation?

[1:51:08] No, it's your policy, say, don't do that.

[1:51:12] And what action, if any, should the Board now take the chair

[1:51:15] then absorbs the the topic request and considers it according to policy.

[1:51:21] I did create, I think you already have it, but I did create a situation when you have been

[1:51:26] during self evaluation, you didn't do this properly. This would come up during our self evaluation.

[1:51:32] And that could be your scenario for that night. That we did not do that properly. Yeah.

[1:51:38] So this is a filter that other I've given to other boards to use. Actually your questions

[1:51:42] already cover this, it's kind of stolen a little bit from your questions, but I put it in the slides in case you wanted something pretty.

[1:51:52] So here's another one. The board is reviewing a monitoring report from the superintendent.

[1:51:56] A board member notes that the interpretation is not how they would have interpreted it.

[1:52:02] How should the board respond?

[1:52:06] What policies are affected?

[1:52:14] You go straight to the monitoring policy.

[1:52:17] Yes.

[1:52:18] Yes.

[1:52:20] That's exactly right.

[1:52:24] And so doesn't refer to anything that's been delegated to the superintendent.

[1:52:30] Yes, the superintendent is delegated to have a reasonable interpretation. I don't actually understand this question well either. Does this scenario reflect behavior consistent with Board's governance process? So, never mind. I just don't worry about that question. But what action, if any, should the Board take now? Charlie, you're on the spot.

[1:52:49] we're going to have a discussion and if we don't have a consensus and we could make a motion

[1:52:57] to either change the verbiage of the policy or put it on to next agenda for first reading

[1:53:05] or herb. Even before that, maybe the chair can say to the member, all right, I understand that

[1:53:11] this isn't how you would have interpreted it, but do you think it's unreasonable? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

[1:53:16] on redirected to that.

[1:53:17] Can you say something again?

[1:53:19] Redirected to the unreasonable.

[1:53:20] Can you put that on my?

[1:53:22] Yeah.

[1:53:23] But it could be reasonable and still you still want to change that.

[1:53:26] Oh yeah.

[1:53:29] Yeah.

[1:53:30] But you do want to clarify, like, let's say that it's not the interpretation.

[1:53:34] You wanted Kathy.

[1:53:35] Does the board agree with you?

[1:53:37] And that's when you would change the policy.

[1:53:39] Yeah.

[1:53:40] Yeah.

[1:53:41] So like the lengthy would be a good example of that if multiple people had decided

[1:53:45] Yeah, exactly, that's why that was a great example to bring up tonight, yeah.

[1:53:50] Okay, let me give you another scenario.

[1:53:53] Just kind of run through a few of these.

[1:53:55] Oh, I keep going to my computer, but it's not there.

[1:53:59] I also gave you some answers in your report.

[1:54:03] Um, scenario.

[1:54:04] Board member asks the superintendent in a meeting about a specific operational decision,

[1:54:08] such as why they hired so-and-so.

[1:54:11] This is so good.

[1:54:13] these are real they're not specific to you guys these are real situations and half of its

[1:54:18] school boards all over the place but what do you do about it is there are there

[1:54:22] are there any policies that speak to hiring decisions and are specific operational

[1:54:28] decisions you do your board management delegation says operational decisions are

[1:54:33] up to the superintendent

[1:54:36] i'm feeling that certain policies stand out come out all the

[1:54:42] That's on very fast they do and so having the policies with you is kind of helpful and you'll start to highlight just those policies

[1:54:49] Yeah, and they're almost always in board management delegation or governance process

[1:54:54] And I think as we all get used to it

[1:54:57] Yeah, what we won't be doing that. Yeah, you know, it'd be less and less

[1:55:01] Yeah, I'm going to kind of give you another one stop looking at the corner

[1:55:07] Um, board members says that while they were at the grocery store, a parent told them of a fight that occurred at the high school, the board members upset they didn't know of this already.

[1:55:16] What should the board do?

[1:55:19] So, are there any policies around this? This one's a little bit more interesting, a little bit more interesting.

[1:55:29] Her.

[1:55:30] Yeah.

[1:55:32] I'm just kidding.

[1:55:34] You've delegated it.

[1:55:36] We've delegated it.

[1:55:38] Yes. You have delegated it.

[1:55:40] However, look at your executive limitations, that's what E.L.s are.

[1:55:44] Is there anything in executive limitations that might address this?

[1:55:48] There's some policy about how to do the report to a certain incident,

[1:55:52] of the incidental information, things that happen.

[1:55:55] So that might generate a board discussion of what constitutes the type of information that you want the superintendent to report out.

[1:56:04] So for example, as Superintendent, I kind of talked with my boards and I said, if it's something

[1:56:11] that I know is going public, like we had three fire trucks with their lights on in front

[1:56:15] of the school, and you know that's zooming all over the community, give a heads up to the

[1:56:21] board, so that when you're walking in the grocery store, your response can be, yes, I do

[1:56:26] know about that.

[1:56:27] We're waiting for a report on more information.

[1:56:29] You don't have to say, this is what happened, and you know, it was a fight between X,

[1:56:33] and that's not it, but just yes, I have been informed about it, and in your head you're

[1:56:41] saying, and I'm staying in my role as the board, I'm not the one going in taking care of

[1:56:46] this fight, I'm not the one who has to deal with it, but we experience that I think when

[1:56:53] you and I were working with your admin team, something came up and you immediately said, I think

[1:56:58] I need to know about that.

[1:56:59] So you had the same conversation with principles, what is it principles need to be notified

[1:57:02] the superintendent about. What is it? The superintendent needs to notify the board about

[1:57:07] at an incidental information level. I told you I think in my training that we had a school

[1:57:12] bus. Basically go into a covered bridge after a basketball game and the bus didn't fit.

[1:57:21] And did some damage to the covered bridge. Bus driver didn't know it at the time.

[1:57:27] the next morning he saw news report about it and said I was me so he came and reported it

[1:57:35] to supervisor supervisor told me I called the town but meanwhile I just let the board

[1:57:41] know please be aware that this incident occurred last night on the sports trip and we

[1:57:46] are taking care of it you know I think she does too based on what I've seen let me

[1:57:55] story a little bit of a curveball based on something I've never experienced in 20 years roughly

[1:58:00] on school boards but take your scenario here and let's say that the board member was also

[1:58:07] told that this flight was between kids who had been fighting before and that the principal had

[1:58:14] done nothing about it and that had been reported the superintendent months ago nothing happened

[1:58:19] that you're going to do about it hurt.

[1:58:21] OK, so one response would be, well, this is the time

[1:58:26] of which the Board figures out what policy was involved

[1:58:29] and asked the superintendent within a few days,

[1:58:33] we want a monitoring of the board here, right?

[1:58:37] So basically, in this particular situation,

[1:58:40] what's going through your head is the board members.

[1:58:42] Do we have a safety issue in our schools?

[1:58:44] And so you might ask for some data on safety issues or some discussion of protocols or things like that.

[1:58:54] But you don't need to know the specifics of who is fighting and what exactly the school did.

[1:59:00] In fact, you shouldn't know because if it's appealed to you then you want to be unbiased.

[1:59:06] Yeah, but before we get to the point where I'm doing a complete monitoring report because somebody said something at a grocery store to a single board member

[1:59:16] I would hope that we would have the discussion some discussion first before yes, I'm giving a monitor for

[1:59:22] Yeah, a single board member can't ask for a monitor in a port anyway

[1:59:27] I was just going to say well we can't bring up something new that's not on the agenda

[1:59:34] but if we

[1:59:37] wondering if, for example, we've had previously, we've had a lot of issues with the middle school.

[1:59:46] And we were getting, you know, people were talking to us all the time about what was going on and felt nothing was being done about it.

[1:59:53] But so as a board member, I can't ask.

[1:59:58] I hear this, but now I can't ask.

[2:00:00] We have a meeting tomorrow night, but I can't ask at that meeting because I don't recommend it because you just put your superintendent on public notice of having to manage that question without disclosing student information. Give her a call.

[2:00:15] Shooter and even, no, no, no, I would, I mean, if I hear something, I give this a

[2:00:19] weekend in the call.

[2:00:20] Yeah.

[2:00:20] Same.

[2:00:20] I heard this.

[2:00:22] Yeah.

[2:00:23] But my point is that he can't go on the agenda until the next meeting, because I can't

[2:00:31] bring something new to the board.

[2:00:33] Right.

[2:00:33] But it may not have to ever go on the agenda.

[2:00:36] You let the superintendent know that you heard about this in the grocery store.

[2:00:40] What that particular fight doesn't belong on any agenda.

[2:00:43] But in general, if there are middle school issues in general, then it might be something that

[2:00:51] Kansas, we have some

[2:00:54] Some issues happening in the middle school and we're bringing in some behavior specialists to work with some students to

[2:00:59] First of whatever you want to say

[2:01:01] Okay, so this is not a topic that normally would be a board discussion in this situation. We would just call him and say

[2:01:08] Yeah, I'm concerned

[2:01:09] here's a number of incidents that have occurred.

[2:01:12] Yeah, that's all.

[2:01:13] So we would never really get a report out on it or anything.

[2:01:18] Not around this particular incident?

[2:01:20] No, I'm not saying just one incident.

[2:01:21] Okay, but you do have a policy that talks about safe environments and

[2:01:27] emergency procedures and eventually that it might come out in that

[2:01:32] or it also might just come out in a superintendents

[2:01:35] interim incidental information report depending on level of severity. In other words, a fight that

[2:01:41] happens at the hospital does not, the hospital really does not rise to your level. You can tell us that a fight

[2:01:47] that occurs at A fight that occurs at the high school is not really a board level issue.

[2:01:52] Continual fighting at the high school that requires some significant changes in safety structure

[2:01:59] is something the superintendent would bring for board information.

[2:02:03] It would be just like what you did before, years ago, and said we'd like a report on safety.

[2:02:09] Yeah, yeah, you could do that.

[2:02:13] During a public comment, a community member speaks about a particular staff person, maybe a coach or a principal or a teacher,

[2:02:20] and they went the board to take action.

[2:02:22] How should the board respond?

[2:02:23] Can't.

[2:02:24] But what do you say to that person who's, I'm going to make Peter that person?

[2:02:28] What do you say to Peter right now?

[2:02:30] Knock it off, Peter.

[2:02:33] No, we have to say that there is a chain of command and we have to follow that chain, so

[2:02:39] has he contacted the principal, has he contacted the superintendent?

[2:02:44] Great.

[2:02:45] And even if they contacted the superintendent, but they don't like the superintendent's response,

[2:02:52] the board looks at whether or not policies were being followed, doesn't take on the investigative

[2:02:58] role of what's happening.

[2:03:00] So, but, yes, letting the community know that there is a chain of command and this is more effectively addressed through the chain of command, so if you haven't, if you talk to the principal and don't like it, then talk to the superintendent.

[2:03:13] Good. Very good, good.

[2:03:15] Did I actually had a phone call like that? Somebody was unhappy with the teacher and then the principal supposedly, they talked to the principal.

[2:03:23] I said, have you talked to the superintendent about the problem?

[2:03:27] No, how do I reach, yeah, exactly.

[2:03:29] And so I told him, and he was happy as can be.

[2:03:33] Yeah.

[2:03:33] And then never went, I mean, it never went anywhere.

[2:03:37] But I think as long as they're getting some of the answer.

[2:03:40] Yeah, they want to be heard.

[2:03:41] Exactly.

[2:03:42] I feel that they're trying all the same, really.

[2:03:46] Um, I don't think there's too many more.

[2:03:48] The board is aware the superintendent is about to reduce the number of kindergarten teachers

[2:03:52] due to enrollment fluctuations.

[2:03:54] They also know that parents of kindergarten students

[2:03:56] will be angry with this decision.

[2:03:58] Maybe a board member is a parent of a kindergarten student

[2:04:01] who's going to be angry at this situation.

[2:04:04] What's the board's role in this decision?

[2:04:06] It's been delegated.

[2:04:08] That's right.

[2:04:09] This is a delegated.

[2:04:10] This is operations role.

[2:04:14] I'm going to take care.

[2:04:14] I think you're going to like this better than exactly.

[2:04:18] I don't think so.

[2:04:20] I don't think so.

[2:04:25] Three new board members are elected to the board.

[2:04:29] They do not know what policy governance is.

[2:04:32] They are not aware of the policies.

[2:04:33] What should the board do?

[2:04:36] Send them to a training.

[2:04:37] Send them to a training.

[2:04:40] Give them the policies.

[2:04:41] I think we had even decided that we were going to, in March,

[2:04:45] have right after the election.

[2:04:47] When we typically have meetings to square in,

[2:04:50] We were going to have that as a board professional development time, where we then do board training with the whole board,

[2:04:57] the professor training to refresh.

[2:04:59] And last year, didn't you also have a meeting? I think it was before people had to submit

[2:05:05] nomad any petitions. Yes, sure. I think if you board a policy governs there too.

[2:05:10] When we did an information night for a perspective board members. Nice. Yeah, we put that in our work plan as well.

[2:05:16] Yeah.

[2:05:18] And done with scenarios for tonight.

[2:05:20] Are we doing a motion on, oh, yes, he's policies.

[2:05:23] It was on the next following we got to.

[2:05:26] We got to.

[2:05:27] We got to.

[2:05:28] So you gave me 15 minutes early and let me run 15 minutes late.

[2:05:31] I thank you for that and I'll grab you for that.

[2:05:35] And I'll turn the agenda back over to you,

[2:05:37] because we have gone through everything here.

[2:05:39] And I hope you found this helpful.

[2:05:42] Thank you.

[2:05:42] Just a question.

[2:05:43] I think relates to what Jesus been doing.

[2:05:45] Do we have somewhere in our work plan evaluating our as a board or a compliance with your own policies?

[2:05:58] Yes.

[2:05:58] The three point.

[2:06:00] You have a column for each.

[2:06:02] Well, but I'm not sure when it says policy governance assessment whether we're talking about saying

[2:06:08] ourselves. Are we following for example 4.1 or are we just talking about this

[2:06:15] form that we talked about? So I don't see anything here that says in February for example

[2:06:21] we're going to decide whether the board has followed some of its own policies.

[2:06:26] Well we do have an annual report if you see an annual report that was posted I think would

[2:06:31] that not encompass what year. It would but it seems like that's a lot of work to do it all

[2:06:35] one right so throughout the year

[2:06:38] starting in

[2:06:40] uh...

[2:06:41] uh... it says that you are actually going to look at assignment of board members

[2:06:46] to add hot committee for staff relations that's not really a policy

[2:06:49] that's sorry that's government process that's not it

[2:06:52] board self evaluation

[2:06:56] nope actually i don't see it on here

[2:06:59] did i bored to the uh... so yes there should be a column just like there is for three

[2:07:04] for monitoring, where the board does their own monitoring.

[2:07:09] So just like you've assigned policies under 3.4,

[2:07:13] there should be a column where this month you're going to do this policy,

[2:07:15] this month you're going to do this policy of your own policies,

[2:07:18] which would encompass maybe assigning the easiest way to do it,

[2:07:25] maybe is to assign, is to list the board governance policies

[2:07:28] and have

[2:07:30] People assigned two people to a policy and have those people kind of review the policy, bring it in and give a report on, I think we're doing well. Maybe it's not here because we haven't lived it at all yet, but you should build it into your work plan by next year.

[2:07:44] Would that be similar to, like, in luck to, like, the superintendent? Yes. Just like the executive limitations for superintendent.

[2:07:53] What we do is at our board is we, at our annual retreat, we put them on a work plan and we assign individual board members to monitor specific board policy.

[2:08:05] So we know, you know, and we all have busy months of the year when we know we're not going to be able to prepare a report, right? So we avoid those.

[2:08:12] We have it all mapped out and then we know when we're supposed to do a policy monitoring report.

[2:08:19] I'm going to mark policies.

[2:08:21] We'll take a crack at it and then it goes into the board package.

[2:08:24] So it has to be done timely so that everybody gets to see it before the board meeting.

[2:08:29] And then the board has a chance to ask questions of the person that did the monitoring report.

[2:08:34] Similar to that evaluation, I think it's also an opportunity for the board to say,

[2:08:40] But we also did this, you know, here's another piece of evidence or, you know,

[2:08:44] there's where we really should be improving. So we do have a brief discussion about that policy.

[2:08:49] And I think we even added a column at the end for suggestions for improvement or ways we can improve.

[2:08:57] And that's been extremely helpful because then...

[2:09:00] Did you put that on your work plan, you mean? Or was that on your...

[2:09:04] That was cool. I was the monitoring template.

[2:09:06] Yes, but on your work plan do you state when you're doing each of those policies?

[2:09:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah, so in theory, Jen would, I'm not saying you are, but Jen would add all the policies to the work plan and we could essentially assign people to them and ahead of time

[2:09:23] So they were aware of what policies they were going to monitor and they are saying that the monitoring report is it similar to the one that Pam does does not need to be a lengthy written monitoring report.

[2:09:32] you can just table just to table like a table like yourself you've all

[2:09:36] and it's just kind of jotting notes you do not need to do that

[2:09:40] that full written on it to really helpful to assign

[2:09:44] an easy policy to a new board member and give them that practice like

[2:09:48] there's some couple really low hanging for ones and you could even also offer

[2:09:54] veteran board members to help the new board member do their first policy monitoring report that's what we often do

[2:10:00] And then that's been very helpful, too.

[2:10:04] In Teconic and Green, we did it in a considerably different way.

[2:10:10] We had a schedule like what we now have for executive

[2:10:15] limitation monitoring, so that I think this is what you're

[2:10:19] saying that happens in bar store every month, you

[2:10:21] bar up a different policy under $3.04.0, but from there,

[2:10:26] we handled it differently.

[2:10:27] the board was pulled by email about are we complying entirely, substantially, only partially

[2:10:37] or not at all, and then the next meeting the board discussed the results, and that did

[2:10:43] not require any board members to try to summarize what they thought we'd been up to.

[2:10:50] It was all a matter of what the board said we actually had been doing.

[2:10:52] Yeah, it's another way you could do it, but I don't think you have to worry about that quite yet because you this is your first meeting of implementing your own policies

[2:11:01] So I think you want to give yourselves a little minute time and then build it in for sure in the next year's work plan

[2:11:08] I might be something later this spring you want to pick up

[2:11:14] So if I take away from this to is we had a lot of good scenarios

[2:11:17] Talk through one to things if there's something that you you need to talk about it comes up in the agenda

[2:11:23] that you're going to submit it so that when we do our agenda building, we will consider

[2:11:29] these questions regarding the topic and the agenda from there.

[2:11:34] It's important to stick to the agenda because we want to make sure that we're all prepared

[2:11:38] for the conversation, the public is prepared for the conversation, so we're trying to

[2:11:46] mindful of that.

[2:11:46] So we're sticking to the

[2:11:50] survey that understands that.

[2:11:54] And a service that's available to you with your contract with the SBA is I can also just sit in on meetings virtually to answer questions as they come up.

[2:12:04] Not necessarily present like this and take your time.

[2:12:06] But be a resource to you if that's something that you'd like.

[2:12:10] So we're all going to run into.

[2:12:11] Is your learning this?

[2:12:13] Yeah.

[2:12:14] Great.

[2:12:14] Thank you, everyone.

[2:12:15] Thank you.

[2:12:16] Thank you.

[2:12:17] Bethany, I have no idea how to get this off the screen so I'm giving it back to you.

[2:12:24] Next topic is the governance process referring to policy point 0.

[2:12:29] We have two policies, two motions.

[2:12:32] You're back.

[2:12:33] I like to make a motion to move policies C11.

[2:12:38] Student freedom of expression in schools sponsored media.

[2:12:40] Yeah, and that, excuse me, see 13, students experience your homelessness and D6 class size to second reading.

[2:12:48] So moved.

[2:12:51] Any discussion?

[2:12:54] Hearing none.

[2:12:55] All in favor?

[2:12:56] Hi.

[2:12:56] Any opposed?

[2:12:58] Motion carries?

[2:13:00] We also, oh, sorry.

[2:13:02] Yep.

[2:13:03] Go ahead.

[2:13:03] No, I like to make a move.

[2:13:04] I like to make a move.

[2:13:07] You do not want to see me make a move.

[2:13:11] No, what was happening?

[2:13:12] I'd like to make a motion to authorize an article

[2:13:15] for the City Elections on November 3, 2020.

[2:13:18] Six ballot, that if approved,

[2:13:19] allow us for the establishment of a capital reserve fund,

[2:13:22] that would be under the control and direction of the school board

[2:13:25] for the purposes of making capital improvements

[2:13:28] at Rutland City Public Square.

[2:13:30] Second.

[2:13:33] So, for the human beings, the first time.

[2:13:34] No, you made motion, I said.

[2:13:36] I made it into the second, yeah.

[2:13:38] and you discussion yes okay so i'm looking at that policy or i i think it's a great idea we

[2:13:46] definitely need it but it's not asking for a specific like the fire department is two or three

[2:13:52] cents added to the budget what are we asking so i'll ask you this point is that we put it on the

[2:13:59] ballot to be able to establish the capital reserve fund and then what at once approved will come back

[2:14:04] with a recommendation for how much you put into that account. I'm just a little bit concerned

[2:14:12] that maybe we should do it all at one time. No. Now we would need to establish it. We need

[2:14:18] to get voter approval just to establish the fund before we can talk about what we're going to

[2:14:21] put in it because I don't once we get the voter approval to establish the fund we decide as a board

[2:14:28] what goes into the fund. That doesn't go to a voter anything to the public. So wait a minute.

[2:14:33] So this is going to be just part of our regular budget.

[2:14:38] It will be money that we have that we've then set aside and for capital improvement fund.

[2:14:46] So is there a lot of you adding anything to the tax base?

[2:14:49] Okay.

[2:14:50] So I think we need to explain that to make sure we explain that clearly to the voters.

[2:14:58] I read that and I think you're asking.

[2:15:00] For more money. No, you're not telling me how much you're asking. No, we just want to, you know, I mean, you belong to the checking account.

[2:15:07] We just want to be able to set aside money for capital improvements. And it goes into a different, it protects the funds from being used in a different way.

[2:15:15] You all decide the board decides how much to put in, and then it decides when to take it out and for what?

[2:15:22] Okay. So that would be maybe surplus in the budget that you did.

[2:15:26] Correct. Okay. So that's all you're.

[2:15:28] I think it's a great idea too, I'm wondering, number three here says protect funds from uncertainties related to possible school consolidations under Act 170.

[2:15:42] How sure are we that that would actually be a protection?

[2:15:48] I think it, are we sure about anything with protection in merger and consolidation right now?

[2:15:53] No, but I think it's better than not having any of that.

[2:15:58] This gives us a better chance, right?

[2:16:01] Especially because the language that we are proposing also has in it,

[2:16:06] that this to be used for run and state public schools.

[2:16:08] It's nice.

[2:16:10] Is it the attorney reviewed that or no?

[2:16:13] We've used ballot language that's been used by other school districts and towns.

[2:16:20] So the motion, I guess, is done for all of you.

[2:16:24] Hi.

[2:16:26] Can you pose?

[2:16:26] Any discussion?

[2:16:28] I can.

[2:16:28] I can already have the discussion.

[2:16:31] Any opposed?

[2:16:33] Motion carries.

[2:16:34] Thank you.

[2:16:36] The superintendent report was in your pocket.

[2:16:40] There's already questions.

[2:16:42] I highlighted just a couple of little things.

[2:16:44] I didn't see it in the morning.

[2:16:46] You have it.

[2:16:48] We're not in your kind of care.

[2:16:50] It's a good school.

[2:16:50] It was a good school.

[2:16:51] It was a good school.

[2:16:52] Oh, okay.

[2:16:54] It's one year all and invited to our convocation on Tuesday.

[2:16:58] August 25th, the entire district will gather together at 8 o'clock at the high school.

[2:17:04] If you're going to come, please let us know so that way we can just plan.

[2:17:09] Brunch will be offered.

[2:17:10] We'll have a keynote speaker.

[2:17:11] We'll recognize staff.

[2:17:12] It will be a celebration.

[2:17:14] And then we'll have brunch together before people head back to their buildings.

[2:17:18] Number of community partnerships have happened over the summer months.

[2:17:22] One we're partnering with the Rotten Recreation Department, using grant funds to offer free

[2:17:27] family events on Fridays at Whitespool, kids do crafts and swimming in games, all free of

[2:17:35] charge for family.

[2:17:37] We also have partnered with the Flint Theatre to offer what's called Playing Fields.

[2:17:42] It's a project that's a back-to-school celebration, all students, and their families, community, are invited.

[2:17:50] It's going to be at the intermediate and middle school field, and it is at 6 o'clock.

[2:17:56] So everyone is welcome to attend.

[2:17:59] Yeah, thank you.

[2:18:00] I don't have it.

[2:18:01] I don't have it.

[2:18:03] Let me just make sure there's nothing else I wanted to highlight.

[2:18:06] Okay.

[2:18:07] There we go.

[2:18:09] Thank you.

[2:18:11] We do not have an anticipated executive session, this is my understanding.

[2:18:17] The next meeting will be September 8, 6 o'clock.

[2:18:21] I would like to welcome Herb to walk us through their self evaluation today.

[2:18:32] Well, that's actually what I brought up the presentation, which is that we do need to establish

[2:18:41] a schedule. I think she's right that we don't have to do it right away. But the work plan

[2:18:47] ought to say that November 10th, 2027, for example, we're going to be evaluating our own

[2:18:56] following up policy 4.1. So on, sounds like we haven't figured out whether we want to do it the way

[2:19:04] are still does it or the way to kind of ingrained it or maybe a third way. But we need to do it because

[2:19:13] otherwise policy governance doesn't work. I said, well that's what you had in mind though.

[2:19:21] I was going to go over the questions to self evaluate us as a group.

[2:19:25] Oh, yes, that one. Oh, the formula already had.

[2:19:29] Yes.

[2:19:30] Okay, yeah,

[2:19:36] well, um, taking him in order with um, and let's just take maybe the first three

[2:19:40] Karen's suggestion here where it was the board engaged in the meeting

[2:19:46] Impression is yes, it was

[2:19:48] Thank you. That's great. Great. It would be follow the agenda

[2:19:53] Yes, we did

[2:19:56] Regrettably sometimes but we did

[2:20:00] Did we refer any policies for items on tonight's agenda?

[2:20:05] I'm not quite sure what that wording means.

[2:20:08] You did.

[2:20:08] You were actually mad at it.

[2:20:10] Yeah.

[2:20:12] We're all going to be so-and-so.

[2:20:14] Thank you for that.

[2:20:15] Oh, refer to any policies.

[2:20:17] I left out the two.

[2:20:19] Did the boy focus his work toward the future of the district and achieving its ends?

[2:20:24] Certainly toward the future of the district.

[2:20:26] The chiefing the ends is a little hard to establish because we haven't flushed out our ends policy yet.

[2:20:33] That's one big task we still have in front of us, and we have an ends policy, but it's just a skeleton.

[2:20:41] I did the Board identify the opportunities to link to its owners. Yes, and Pam just brought up some of them right now, right then.

[2:20:49] And did any future training topics come up?

[2:20:52] Well, we did discuss that the new board members need to be trained in policy governance.

[2:20:57] I can't think of any other training topics.

[2:21:01] I think that was it.

[2:21:02] So we got to be talking about getting a little bit of training too.

[2:21:06] Yeah, that was in one of the two different student.

[2:21:10] Maybe we could look into that.

[2:21:11] Descriptions.

[2:21:12] Yeah.

[2:21:13] Interesting.

[2:21:15] A plus for everybody, great work, and let's see can I get a motion to adjourn?

[2:21:22] So moved.

[2:21:23] Second.

[2:21:23] I can really have to say all favor.

[2:21:26] Everybody says yes.

Rutland City School Board

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