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[6:26] good evening everyone and welcome to the Sako city council meeting for Monday

[6:29] July 8th 2024 at 6:30 p.m. let the record reflect that we have

[6:35] all members of council present this evening including City administrator

[6:39] John bko would you please join me for the Pledge of

[6:44] Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and

[6:49] to the repu for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy

[6:55] and justice for all

[7:01] thank you and now that takes us to item number four and that is general and

[7:04] there is nothing this evening item number five committee correspondence to

[7:09] council any Council men members have correspondence excuse me councelor hwit

[7:14] um I'd L true uh Senator Collins mayor mcf and

[7:21] members of council had a groundbreaking for the

[7:25] Wastewater that Mike's on there you go

[7:31] okay Senator there we go Senator Collins mayor mcf members of council had a

[7:36] groundbreaking for the waste water resource recovery facility this week and

[7:41] also the libraries having a book sale August 16th to

[7:45] 31st thank you anyone

[7:49] else okay not seeing anyone that takes us to item number six and that is public

[7:56] comment and we do have four members signed up first up we do have Mabel Reed

[8:01] Wallace please step

[8:04] up do you want to speak to council I thought I was just signing in oh no no

[8:09] no that's fine Yep this is for public common if you wanted to speak to councel

[8:14] Okay I was invited here I was told I have to come so will you call me when

[8:20] you're ready nope you don't have to speak or

[8:23] anything yep when when your item comes up it will be announced and the council

[8:27] will vote oh yep thank you okay so next on the list we do have John

[8:32] Molina please step up to the podium state your name and address for the

[8:35] record and you will have three minutes to address

[8:38] Council John Molina 23 Camp Ellis Avenue Sako uh I'm here to speak in favor of

[8:46] the camp Ellis trolley uh we have been there going on 30 years and

[8:53] uh big time in favor of the trolley I mean I was on the beach on Friday I I

[8:59] stop counting at 250 people at the beach and to have the trolley there it's

[9:05] certainly I mean there are a lot of rentals there it's good business locally

[9:09] but one thing that I really want to hone in as well is Camp Ellis has been going

[9:14] through a transformation in the last few years I mean besides everything with the

[9:18] jetty uh we have new owners of the store new owners of hwis and Camp Ellis to me

[9:25] is the diamond and the rough in Sako um um what I really

[9:32] think this this trolley should do we should really try to promote and try to

[9:37] bring people in Camp Ellis Camp Ellis used to be a destination a 100 years ago

[9:42] with a dummy train and the way it is now going and growing again it's a

[9:47] destination I mean there are a lot of people that yes like to go from Camp

[9:51] Ellis or Sako over to Old Orchard but seven nights a week not everyone wants

[9:56] to be that loud we should try to get a lot of people people from the Old

[10:00] Orchard to come over to us and by rebranding hwis and having music out

[10:06] there and corn holes I mean we have the harbor Fest coming again for the second

[10:11] year which was very successful we had a cornhole tournament last fall even

[10:16] though this would be out of the trolley schedule we had over 600 kids at the

[10:21] Halloween trunk Retreat Camp Ellis is growing let's just take advantage of it

[10:26] and I hope you members will support this and uh I just think there's a lot of

[10:31] great things coming for that section of our town thank you thank you

[10:35] John next up we have David

[10:43] plaven thank you mayor mcil council City administrative venko I'm David plaven I

[10:48] live at 36 low Beach Road in Sako I'm also up here to offer support for the

[10:54] trolley Amendment tonight I think that um there's a lot of history involved

[10:59] this and it would be a a great thing to see something like this return to Camp

[11:03] Ellis and I was going to read a paragraph from a letter that

[11:08] um Allison Corto sent she's the manager of tamarak rentals which has several

[11:14] rental properties along the shore and in Camp Ellis and

[11:19] um she says that trolley has always been a cherished part of Camp Ellis providing

[11:23] convenient and enjoyable transportation of both residents and tourists and not

[11:27] only offers an easy way to expl for the local attractions shops and beaches but

[11:32] also contribut significantly to the overall experience of staying in our

[11:35] beautiful Seaside Town many of our guests fly remember their trolley rids

[11:39] and often cite them as one of the highlights of their stay what I'd like

[11:43] to say though is that um what I'd like to see happen here is that we get this

[11:48] approved and then in the time between now and next next year's budget season

[11:54] that we get to work with the economic development department of Sako and see

[11:58] if we can really put together a marketing and promotional plan for the

[12:01] trolley and that would include um campellis businesses maybe some citizens

[12:07] Old Orchard Beach and um and director Chad Hyde of the transit authority I

[12:13] think to come back here and stand up and just ask for another round of funding

[12:18] without having at least some idea or some some way to promote it and really

[12:22] make it work um would not be would not be the right thing to do so I'm asking

[12:28] that we can do that as a part of this I think that would be an important thing

[12:32] to do and lastly I wanted to thank the city

[12:35] administrator um for for getting this back out in front of everybody I think a

[12:40] lot of us thought it was dead in the water after um the route was was um

[12:45] terminated a couple years ago um councelor hatch was also on the transit

[12:50] board and of course councilor Burman for supporting it I think it's important

[12:54] that we get this done it's not a huge ask and I think but it's also important

[12:59] that those of us on the camp Bellis side of it um do more than just take the

[13:04] money and watch people ride a trolley we need to to really make it work the right

[13:08] way so um and I also want to thank Chad for um he came down to Camp Ellis last

[13:15] week surveyed the the streets and the route so hopefully we can we can do this

[13:20] so thank you thank you

[13:26] David okay next up we have Casey Delaney

[13:37] hello my name is Casey Delaney I'm from 11 sunet AV in Sako um my husband Bob

[13:43] and I run and manage Sako Bay rentals which we took over from my mom who ran

[13:47] it for 35 years prior um we have 50 plus properties from Camp Ellis all the way

[13:54] up to Old Orchard Beach about 50% are in each location and we have a tremendous

[14:00] amount of repeat renters that come back year after year and bring a lot of

[14:03] Revenue to the city of Sako um a lot of those renters when the trolley stopped

[14:09] running expressed their disappointment um you know some of them come from Old

[14:14] Orchard to Camp Ellis and a lot go the other way but um they they do miss it

[14:20] and they have expressed that concern so as um as the owner of Sako Bay rentals

[14:25] we'd be willing to provide a hyperlink on our website to

[14:29] you know to your your site um for the trolley and we'd also we have a property

[14:34] book in each property we could put the trolley schedule in with a qcr code that

[14:38] they could scan and and buy tickets um and we'd be happy to promote it in any

[14:43] way that we can up to an including um signage on the trolley itself so we're

[14:50] very hopeful that you will support this thank you thank

[14:56] you okay if there is any other member of the public wishing to speak please step

[14:59] up to the

[15:06] podium okay not seeing anyone wishing to be recognized we move on to item seven

[15:12] and that is the approval of the minutes for May 6 2024 June 3rd 2024 and June

[15:18] 17th 2024 is there a motion to approve the minutes so moved motion made by

[15:24] councelor hatch is there a second

[15:30] second second by councelor Johnston any discussion on the

[15:35] minutes okay uh Council Burman as I was absent from June 17th I'd like to

[15:40] abstain from voting on those minutes while still voting on The

[15:44] Others is that

[15:50] possible um we can do if you wish to abstain we can do the

[15:55] two sep we can do two separate

[15:59] so councelor hatch are you okay with a motion to approve May 6 and June 3rd I

[16:05] am Council Johnson okay with your second second okay roll call vote for May 6 and

[16:10] June 3rd councel arer I councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes councelor Burman

[16:16] yes councelor hatch yes councelor hwit yes and councelor Johnston yes motion

[16:22] passes 7

[16:26] Z okay uh councilor hatch is still okay with June 17th I am okay motion by

[16:31] counselor hatch councelor Johnston second okay roll call vote for June 17th

[16:37] 2024 councelor arer hi councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes councelor Burman

[16:43] abstain councelor hatch yes councelor hwit

[16:47] abstain and councelor Johnston yes motion passes 5- Z with two

[16:54] extensions

[16:59] okay that now takes us to item eight and that is consent items there is one item

[17:02] on the agenda this evening and that is clarification of the election results

[17:06] June 11th 2024 for the state primary the budget validation referendum and the

[17:12] special referendum election is there a motion to

[17:15] approve so so moved motion by councelor Burman is there a second second second

[17:21] by councelor

[17:25] Johnson roll call vote councelor rer I councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes

[17:32] councelor Burman yes councelor hatch yes councelor hwit yes and councelor

[17:37] Johnston yes motion passes

[17:42] 70 okay that now takes us to item nine and that is the action items this

[17:45] evening item number a we do have a public hearing on chapter 176 sewers

[17:51] ordinance revision to the appendix a of the residential uses for the wrrd flow

[17:57] schedule for the impact fees and that is councelor gun thank you Madame mayor

[18:02] during discussion of sako's LD 2003 ordinance amendments the city council

[18:06] increase the maximum allowable size of accessory dwelling units to 1,000 square

[18:11] ft purpose of this chapter 176 appendix revision is to align with the ld2 2003

[18:17] ordinance revisions previously adopted in September

[18:21] 2023 I move to open the public hearing motion has been made to open the public

[18:25] hearing by councelor gun is there a second

[18:29] second second by councelor hatch roll call vote councelor Archer hi

[18:35] councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes councelor Burman yes councelor hatch yes

[18:40] councelor huitt yes and councelor Johnston yes motion passes 7 Z Public

[18:45] hearing is now open if there is any member of the public wishing to speak on

[18:49] this item please step forward state your name and address for the record and you

[18:52] will have three minutes for your comments

[19:00] okay not seeing anyone asking for recognition councelor gun thank

[19:04] you I move to close the public hearing and schedule the second and final

[19:09] reading for July 22nd 2024 motion has been made by councelor gun is there a

[19:14] second second second by councelor hatch roll call vote councelor Archer I

[19:20] councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes councel Burman yes councelor hatch yes

[19:25] councelor hwit yes and councel Johnston yes motion toose close the public

[19:29] hearing passes

[19:34] 70 okay Item B this evening is one reading for the funding request for the

[19:39] camp Ellis trolley and that is councelor Archer Madame May

[19:44] uh uing my utilizing my right to speak against this motion I will not be making

[19:50] this motion okay is there a councelor wishing to accept councelor

[19:54] Burman yeah thank you Madame mayor at the June 17th city council meeting Chad

[19:58] Hyde the executive director of BS o Transit presented a proposal to operate

[20:02] a summer seasonal trolley service connecting Camp Ellis and Old Orchard

[20:06] Beach the estimated cost of the trolley per week is

[20:10] $3,200 the service would operate from Thursday through Sunday 4 P p.m. to 11:

[20:14] p.m. be an order that the trolley service be established as a pilot

[20:17] programming commencing Thursday August 1st 2024 through Sunday September 1st

[20:22] 2024 and that Council approved budget amendment number six funds to BS oob for

[20:29] trolley to Camp Ellis I move to approve the order motion has been made by

[20:33] councelor Burman is there a second second second by counselor

[20:46] gun any discussion on the item councilor Burman yeah I apologize for being absent

[20:52] in June 17th when this was discussed as uh part of new business uh I'm pretty

[20:57] passionate about this project I'd like to remind Council and the public that

[21:02] Sako is a is a Coastal Community right the the the ocean and the river are part

[21:07] of what makes us unique it's part of our culture it's part of our history and I

[21:12] believe it's really part of our future this trolley doesn't stand alone it's

[21:17] really part of I think a larger Vision that me and and many others share the

[21:22] Army Corp of Engineers of course is part of that project the beach management

[21:25] plan is part of that project the coastal resiliency coordinator is part of that

[21:29] project right our focus on economic revitalization of the area which as we

[21:33] heard in the public comments is already paying dividends is part of that plan

[21:38] right the idea of this trolley is is to encourage tourism and to make really

[21:42] what is our unique and beautiful Shoreline accessible to more people not

[21:47] only that right but it's an environmentally friendly way of moving

[21:51] people in both directions we bring people from Old Orchard Beach to Camp

[21:55] Ellis visit our you know visit our coastline spend money in our businesses

[22:00] it's also a way of moving people from Camp Alis and Sako to Old Orchard Beach

[22:05] making it more convenient for residents in an environmentally friendly and

[22:09] sustainable manner uh but really this is just one more peg in our overall vision

[22:16] for what we can be doing down in our shore right really bringing that

[22:20] beautiful natural resource to more people making what really I think makes

[22:24] AO unique uh accessible and supporting really our our vision for what camp Alis

[22:29] can be and really what our whole Coastline can be so I hope it'll have

[22:33] support thank you anyone

[22:38] else councilor Johnston thank

[22:42] you

[22:46] um I guess I would say that I would equally agree with councelor Burman as

[22:53] far as uh overall support for this concept

[22:59] um and and equally would con see myself you know being passionate about it um

[23:05] but at the same time I'm equally passionate about Transit being in the

[23:11] downtown area and we have yet to achieve the desired goals of our own Transit uh

[23:19] committee and and organization um so as I said whatever it

[23:24] was several weeks ago um I I I remain conf icted where we're going to do this

[23:30] for one month instead of you know again going through a thorough process as I

[23:37] often say nine times out of 10 it's about process for me and and I'm I'm

[23:42] happy to hear that members of the public are willing to participate um in in

[23:46] potentially funding this going forward uh but I I really have a a challenge

[23:51] thinking that for one month this really makes all that much sense um this was a

[23:57] a conversation back in May that we had ful E from the council I may have

[24:01] supported it um equally last meeting I I had asked uh from my counterpart in W

[24:08] five if the transit committee had any uh opinion of this um I I'm happy to to

[24:17] hear if there is um but again at the end of the day I I'm challenge the idea that

[24:23] we're forcing this on to the uh executive director of trans it um really

[24:31] at the 11th hour with only one month left in the summer I'm certainly happy

[24:37] to support it next year um if we can kind of figure out a funding mechanism

[24:43] that makes sense and and has Buy in thank

[24:48] you councilor hatch uh thank you may mcfield I'll

[24:52] address uh councelor Johnson's uh question of me and and um we had a um I

[24:57] sit on the bis board bisu board of directors as the city council liazon

[25:03] from Sako it's a tri Community uh uh organization um um

[25:10] managed by bitterford Sako in Old Orchard Beach uh it's a onethird oneir

[25:16] oneir partnership so uh it's kind of a unique organization to uh use as a

[25:23] mechanism to support uh um local Transit uh so I did did bring um Council

[25:30] Johnson's concern before the board um then that board meeting we had

[25:35] representation from all three communities the other two communities U

[25:40] really saw no objection uh to the trolley um as long

[25:47] as the uh funding mechanism was

[25:52] 100% uh s Municipal uh it's important for the

[25:57] public to understand that The Trolley system that exists today is funded is

[26:03] not funded by uh Community or Municipal contributions it's funded by all of the

[26:10] uh stakeholders who find Value in having

[26:14] that Trolley system transporting individuals uh to and fro uh it gets

[26:21] strong support from uh the seasonal campgrounds down in Old Orchard

[26:26] Beach um we see aout a route a trolley route going from

[26:30] un to downtown bford that's funded by un um so what we're talking about tonight

[26:37] in terms of funding is very uh unique and

[26:41] unusual um the other issue that I think I need to make public is that uh as the

[26:49] tri Community we try to fund Core Transit needs in equal shares so every

[26:56] time that Chad hiy comes before the soo Council for a contribution he's going

[27:02] before the Old Orchard Beach Town Council and the bitterford city council

[27:07] for the exact same amount of money it's an equal pay all three across the

[27:12] board now what what troubles me a little bit

[27:16] here is I'm trying to be a good Steward of of our tax dollars and I'm trying to

[27:22] be sensitive to the comments that we just made about Core Transit needs

[27:28] and if we were able to give that

[27:33] $116,000 to BP transit for Core Transit needs we would first of all have to gain

[27:42] agreement from bitterford and Old Orchard Beach to Pony up the same amount

[27:48] and I'm not sure how that conversation would go and then Chad could take that

[27:54] money and leverage it significantly by having uh local funding match for

[28:02] federal and state funds uh he can leverage some of the money uh 50% so if

[28:08] we if we gave 16 he could get 32 in total another 16 from these

[28:16] funding mechanism the 50% goes to a certain program for certain needs there

[28:20] are other programs that have different needs that he can leverage uh 80% and he

[28:26] could take our you know our 16,000 and and and and go and grab 80 in

[28:32] total so I'm really this whole discussion we're sort

[28:38] of so much outside of the box here uh and and I guess um I I'll let the

[28:45] discussion on the floor continue but if if we were going to do

[28:51] this uh I I'm going to be adamant because I still have another year on my

[28:57] term I'm going to be sitting here during the next budget cycle and if we decide

[29:02] to move forward with this on the promise that we will see a much broader economic

[29:10] plan having to do with the development of Camp Ellis that includes the trolley

[29:16] with a funding source that's consistent with the other

[29:20] communities uh that's where I would want this to end up and if it doesn't end up

[29:25] there uh I'm I'm going to feel bad that I uh I I didn't Steward our taxpayers

[29:32] monies appropriately if if that's the decision that we make as as a board so I

[29:38] I think it's important um that people understand how our transit

[29:44] system is functions and is managed and it's I will tell you uh as chair of the

[29:51] finance committee BP Transit uh that that you know quasi agency is uh uh is

[30:01] is is really struggling because the funding that was flying all over the

[30:08] place as a result of the pandemic has disappeared there's no more Opa money

[30:13] there's no more free flowing money and so we have a

[30:19] Transit Agency that frankly if we look at it historically it's

[30:25] probably um not been funded appropriately over the years and we're

[30:29] just trying to catch up and we're now losing access to to some of this

[30:35] previously available free money so it's it's a very difficult decision at least

[30:41] for me uh and maybe it's because I I do understand the inner workings of of VP

[30:47] Transit thank you councelor Burman then councel

[30:52] Johnston yeah I guess I'd like to respond and maybe Echo some of your

[30:56] comments I had a really posit meeting uh with with Chad Hyde the director of B

[31:01] Transit I guess about a week ago on Friday the 28th we spent about an hour

[31:05] together and then rode the trolley around or rode the bus around and saw

[31:10] some of the routes and talked about some of the challenges facing Transit and

[31:14] I've spoken from this Podium before about some of my concerns about an Ever

[31:18] Rising budget and and the the service challenges that I saw and I think there

[31:23] are some really exciting uh changes that are going to come over the next two

[31:27] years some additional Community involvement some some route

[31:30] changes uh well some of that will necessitate a higher budget that will

[31:34] indeed help us leverage uh some additional funding I'd like to emphasize

[31:39] that I think those core service challenges may be different than what

[31:42] we're asking for here the the the trolley service really has been funded

[31:47] independently of of that Core Transit needs and what I think the the goal here

[31:52] is at least my vision for this trolley program is not that it stays uh in the

[31:57] municipal budget over the long term right what what we really have here is

[32:01] is a pilot program we had a a crisis with B so and drivers and ridership some

[32:08] Cuts had to be made uh this line was cut my understanding is the labor situation

[32:14] has shifted there are now drivers available and some of the the rationale

[32:18] for for cutting the line now no longer exists director Hyde is is pretty

[32:23] confident he can find a driver if the funding is there so so then the question

[32:28] really becomes one about ridership we've heard from the public that there's is

[32:32] need and demand for ridership uh and that becomes an

[32:36] empirical question so my vision here is really as is a pilot program we we we

[32:42] pay for the trolley out of the municipal coffers because we can uh to support

[32:47] local businesses to support Camp Ellis for environmental purposes to support

[32:51] public transit the ridership is there the businesses s Bay rentals hwis the

[32:57] General Store others will see the benefits we find

[33:01] independent funding sources maybe the city can help coordinate some of that as

[33:04] can the local you know organizations and we come back next year with a plan for

[33:09] full seasonal service that involves a lot of independent funding if the

[33:14] ridership isn't there and the economic benefits don't materialize well then

[33:19] it's a very different conversation next year about what the needs are and how

[33:22] it's done but until we put the trolley service into place we can't answer that

[33:28] question right we don't we don't know if it'll work or not personally I'm very

[33:32] optimistic I think the demand is there I think the need is there I think it'll

[33:36] prove itself but this is this is four weeks of funding in order to really

[33:40] answer that question thank you councelor Johnston

[33:44] thank you um yeah I I mean I certainly understand the concept of of a pilot

[33:50] program um and like I said if if we were in a different time I could see myself

[33:57] supporting this however and I think and I'm not putting words into councelor

[34:02] hatch's uh mouth but what I kind of gleam from what you were

[34:07] saying correct me if I'm wrong but essentially here rolling out a

[34:13] four-week pilot program without a long-term funding

[34:19] source you personally and and I would subscribe to the same have concerns with

[34:25] given that going to the Future there's an expectation that this will be

[34:30] continued to be funded and that's the problem I have with it is that yes you

[34:36] kind of chicken in the egg type scenario but it seems forced if the transit

[34:43] organization felt or or saw the need my expectation is that they would have come

[34:49] out in support of this long ago um but I also understand uh psychology here and

[34:58] as people from away are down at Camp Ellis there's going to be a trolley for

[35:03] a month they're going to use it hopefully I think we all hope that um

[35:07] and then if in fact it's not there next year because there's a lack of funding

[35:11] people are going to be back here in these Chambers yelling and screaming and

[35:14] asking it to come back out of the the public coffers for it and again I've

[35:19] seen it before we had a trolley it doesn't exist for whatever reason I'm

[35:23] not uh privy exactly to why it didn't continue but

[35:28] I I do kind of view that as that was a pilot program and it ended so um

[35:34] certainly if if we can get public buyin from the community down there because

[35:39] this is as councilor hatch was saying above and beyond what the actual mission

[35:44] is of our Transit organization this is a luxury and it does not serve the masses

[35:51] public transit it's going to serve a small sector of the community for their

[35:57] own purposes um now maybe there's merits to that in

[36:00] the future but presently as I said I feel like we're kind of cramming this

[36:06] in when uh it hasn't been full fully thought out but that's my personal

[36:11] opinion thank you councel huitt um I support councelor

[36:17] Burman because I do believe it's business friendly and if we do make

[36:22] actions to support our businesses that new businesses will grow our tax base I

[36:26] think it's also enironmental environmentally friendly had the

[36:30] opportunity to take the trolley during Harbor Fest so maybe in the future if it

[36:35] is a successful pilot program we could find a way to link it to the downtown

[36:39] and bring some of that tourism to downtown Main Street in the future not

[36:44] saying for tonight but just maybe getting some of the other businesses to

[36:48] tie in as a

[36:51] consideration thank you anyone else Council arer without going into detail

[36:57] was going to bring up just reing forth what I my concerns was when Chad

[37:02] presented the director um again I see the economic impact actually not

[37:07] benefiting but being detrimental to Sako what it's going to do is take everybody

[37:11] who is renting in cap uh Camp uh Ellis and bring them to Old Orchard it's going

[37:16] to take the money that's already there and shift it away and I don't see The

[37:19] Return of people in Old Orchard coming to Sako when you rent a hotel in a beach

[37:24] friendly Community such as old or Beach you're doing it for the amenities that

[37:28] it presents so for me it's more about the economics I see it more benefiting

[37:33] Old Orchard um and they're not a partner in this and I just cannot commit our

[37:37] Tech City funds um to this just because what I've looked at is I'm seeing more

[37:43] of a benefit to Old Orchard and actually being

[37:46] detrimental um because it will be pulling away the uh tourism from Camp

[37:51] Ellis and bringing it to Old Orchard thank you anyone

[37:56] else counc Berman uh just to just to point out that I think the owners of

[38:01] hwit the General Store and we've heard from Soco Bay rentals tonight uh are

[38:04] some of the strongest advocates for this trolley and and and strongly believe

[38:08] it'll help their businesses uh so there's some disagreement on that

[38:11] analysis I

[38:15] think counc ler and are these businesses contributing to this pilot project at

[38:20] all if they're so vested in this in this Vision has there been any uh investment

[38:26] into this that would likely rate a return for them as well I see it a

[38:32] different way which is fine we all are allowed to look data as we see but based

[38:36] on everything I see the money will be going out of Sako and not coming in and

[38:40] then we're also paying 16,000 to lose additional

[38:44] income thank you anyone else councilor gun thank you I just of

[38:52] the am of the opinion that uh a one-month pilot program is not a big

[38:56] Financial lift since we're going to be taking care of it

[38:59] ourselves and again you know to you know we can't really know the actual demand

[39:05] until we put it out there obviously again it's going to be late in the

[39:08] season um it's going to be rely a lot on Word of Mouth and hopefully get the

[39:12] advertisement out so it's not exactly the fairest of um sort of uh you know

[39:19] lab sort of uh experiments to see if it actually works though but let's just say

[39:23] it doesn't work then it kind of justifies everybody's opinion that maybe

[39:26] we should you know that it was a luxury we probably shouldn't go that way but if

[39:30] it's an overwhelming success then it's gives us the ability

[39:35] to um again look at funding mechanisms and see the feasibility for a summer

[39:40] route could be a limited summer route though doesn't have just because it's

[39:43] popular in August doesn't mean necessarily popular in June or September

[39:47] for that matter so um just to put it out there as a pilot just to see if there

[39:52] really is legitimate interest and not just you know a couple of business

[39:57] interests or a couple of uh tourist interests that um are driving it I think

[40:03] would be beneficial um especially as we are now at a point where it is many

[40:07] years past where it was canceled so therefore um the parameters have changed

[40:12] the situation is changed and if you want to have that buy it buy in you're going

[40:17] to get it by actually you know putting something out there to see if it works

[40:21] or not as opposed to just sort of you know just basing it off uh past

[40:26] situations though when when past situations of you know we all agree and

[40:30] the Public's agree is altered though Camp Ellis isn't the same as it was 10

[40:33] years ago one way or the other so I don't think this is a big lift one way

[40:37] or the other thank you thank you councelor

[40:41] hatch thank you may mcfi I just like to see if we can gain some clarification on

[40:46] a point councelor AR just made which I think is important this 16,000 I guess

[40:51] I'll address it to City administrative boeno the 16,000 is 100% of the funding

[40:56] so we have no indication from the stakeholders in Camp

[41:01] Ellis as to any financial support they would be throwing at this pilot program

[41:07] is that correct at this time uh I have not reached out or has anybody reached

[41:12] out but I did hear from one of the speakers that they would be interested

[41:16] in maybe putting some advertisement on the trolley which then helps uh be up

[41:22] that's all I heard tonight but certainly uh we I can reach out and talk to people

[41:27] about that uh it's uh again it's a pilot program um I was really did not

[41:35] know if the city council was going to move in a positive way on this so uh I

[41:42] thought that if it was going to be something the city would continue with

[41:46] we would then go out and formally ask for a participation thank

[41:53] you councilor Burman and that's my understanding too is something some of

[41:57] the campellis businesses had reached out to bsob uh they couldn't come up with

[42:02] with the necessary amount of money but did have money on the table uh and then

[42:06] this proposal came forward through a separate channel uh and so there hasn't

[42:10] been an effort to put those two pieces together in such a way to bring that

[42:14] money together U but I I I think that there was money on the table from the

[42:18] local businesses offering to do it and and I'm sure part of any long-term plan

[42:23] what will incorporate local businesses and advertising uh on the trolley I

[42:28] think the idea that for this four-week pilot program or this sorry five-week

[42:32] pilot program uh the city put together this funding

[42:36] separately that is correct anyone

[42:44] else okay roll call vote councelor arer no councelor Parks no councelor gun yes

[42:52] yes councelor Burman yes councelor hatch no

[42:57] councelor huitt yes councelor Johnston

[43:03] no motion fails

[43:10] 43 okay that now takes us to item C and that's a public hearing for the renewal

[43:15] application for a special entertainment permit for GOI Ty barbecue and that is

[43:20] councelor gun thank you Madame mayor Mabel Reese Reed Reese Reed Wallace

[43:27] doing business as go Ty BBC LLC has applied for renewal of the

[43:32] establishment's special entertainment permit the applicant has paid all

[43:36] applicable permit fees and the clerk has properly advertised the public Hearing

[43:40] in accordance with the Sako city code Chapter 93 entertainment subsection

[43:45] 932 I move to open the public hearing motion has been made to open the public

[43:49] hearing by councelor gun is there a second second second by counselor

[43:55] hatch roll call vote councel arer hi councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes

[44:01] councel Birman yes councelor hatch yes councelor huitt yes and councelor

[44:06] Johnston yes motion to open the public hearing passes

[44:09] 70 anyone wishing to speak to the council please step forward state your

[44:13] name and address for the

[44:20] record you can if you wish [Laughter]

[44:24] yes I'm sorry I I've have never done this before uh good evening

[44:29] everyone I have had this license for the past two years but I've never really

[44:36] used it um due to some challenges that I faced the death

[44:41] of my husband and the death of my death of my dad so I wasn't really in a

[44:45] festive mood uh but the only reason why I'm seeking this license is to be able

[44:52] to just have a small band my brother is a musician just to play outside uh the

[45:00] restaurant for a couple of hours I'm not looking to create a party scene so

[45:05] please don't worry about that I'm not a party scener I just want to make sure

[45:10] that if I have the small group go out there and play that everyone is covered

[45:14] and that I'm fine great thank you Mel thank

[45:20] you anyone El tring to speak okay not seeing anyone seeking

[45:26] recognition roll call vote Council arer hi we don't we have to have oh I'm sorry

[45:32] is there a motion to close the public hearing thank you can I thank you I move

[45:36] to close the public hearing and be ordered be at ordered that the city

[45:39] council Grant the renewal application submitted by Mabel Reed Wallace doing

[45:42] businesses Ty barbeq LLC for a special entertainment permit I move to

[45:47] approve the order motion has been made by councelor gun is there a second

[45:51] second second by Council Johnston

[45:57] roll call vote councelor Archer hi councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes

[46:02] councelor Burman yes councelor hatch yes councelor huitt yes and councelor

[46:06] Johnston yes motion passes

[46:12] 70 okay that now takes us to item D and that is another public hearing for the

[46:16] renewal application for a special entertainment permit and request for

[46:20] extension of licensed privileges for an on- premise establishment Funtown

[46:24] Splashtown USA and Sodexo live and that is councelor gun thank you madam mayor

[46:31] htown plash toown USA has applied for renewal of the establishment special

[46:35] entertainment permit to hold 21 plus only after hours events on July 13th

[46:40] 2024 August 3rd 2024 and August 24th 2024 volume Services Incorporated doing

[46:48] business as sedo live 774 Portland Road currently has a liquor license that

[46:53] covers a couple other areas of the amusement park so Dr live is requesting

[46:57] an extension of license privileges for an on premises establishment to cover

[47:02] the requested permitted um area for these special

[47:06] events the special entertainment permit will be concurrent with the liquor

[47:09] license for sedco live which expires on August 30th

[47:13] 2024 the applicant has paid all applicable appit fees and the clerk has

[47:17] properly advertised the public Hearing in accordance with the Sako city code

[47:21] Chapter 93 entertainment subsection 932 nmsa title 28a Liquors subsection 653

[47:30] paragraph 1 I move to open the public hearing motion has been made by

[47:35] councelor gun is there a second second second by councelor

[47:40] Burman roll call vote councelor Archer hi councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes

[47:46] councelor Burman yes councelor hatch yes councelor hwit yes councelor Johnston

[47:50] yes motion to open the public hearing passes

[47:53] 70 if there is any member of the public wishing to speak on this item please

[47:57] step forward and state your name and address for the

[48:06] record good evening counselors since I'm here I figured I'd step up and say hi uh

[48:11] Cory Cormier I'm actually 106 Ross Road l Beach um Funtown third

[48:16] generation um so just a quick chat on the adult nights uh we've had great

[48:20] success with them um we constantly check in with um the police department and see

[48:26] how things go and we have had no complaints about over serving or um

[48:31] people getting a little out of control we were actually pleasantly surprised

[48:34] with how behaved people were um running them last year so we'd like to continue

[48:38] that um it's a it's a good time um adults seem to really enjoy coming in

[48:43] and um they stay fairly well behaved so um moving forward we probably will do

[48:48] this every year seems to work out pretty well so thank you for your time thank

[48:52] you anyone else wishing to speak

[48:59] okay not seeing anyone recognized councelor gun thank you I move to close

[49:04] the public hearing and be at order that the city council Grant the renewal

[49:07] application submitted by the Funtown Splashtown USA for a special

[49:11] entertainment permit and volume Services Incorporated doing business as sedo live

[49:16] for an extension of license privileges for an on premises establishment said

[49:21] special entertainment permit will run concurrent with the liquor license for

[49:24] volume Services Incorporated doing business says sedo live I move to

[49:28] approve the order motion has been made by councelor gun is there a second

[49:32] second second by councelor Johnston roll call vote Council Roger

[49:38] all M just have a have com ahead Council Johnston yeah just for the benefit of of

[49:46] the newer members of council because I don't think it's necessarily clear what

[49:51] exactly is occurring at these events um the extension of the permit has allowed

[49:58] Funtown to allow adults to consume alcohol throughout the park not just in

[50:04] the beard tents for example um and as it's been indicated it seems like though

[50:10] I haven't personally gone but it sounds like it's been a hit and I haven't heard

[50:14] any problems with it but I just wanted to be clear exactly what we were doing

[50:18] thank you thank you they're modeling it after the

[50:23] Storyland um adult notes that they do down there it's a model after that I

[50:27] have attended and it is a fun time and everybody was well behaved so it's kind

[50:31] of like Las Vegas now you just walk around and drink and have fun get on a

[50:35] ride bring back a little Nostalgia from when you were a

[50:39] kid anyone else okay councelor Archer hi councelor

[50:46] Parks yes councelor gun yes councelor Burman yes councelor hatch yes councelor

[50:51] hwit yes and councelor Johnston yes motion passes 70

[50:59] okay that now takes us to item e and that is an appeal case with the coastal

[51:03] Waters commission versus Michael chassis um we do have attorney Murphy with us

[51:10] and councelor Archer would you like to give the commentary uh yes madame mayor

[51:14] on June 11th 2024 Michael chassis filed an appeal to the city council regarding

[51:18] the decision of coastal wers commissions that upheld the

[51:21] rec revocation of his peer permits made earlier by Harbor Master Dan Chad

[51:28] born that is

[51:33] it attorney Murphy I believe you were going to explain the quick process

[51:41] yeah good evening nice to be for you tonight um it's important to remind all

[51:48] of you that uh this is one of those rare occasions you will be acting in what's

[51:52] called a semi or quasi judicial capacity you're not just passing an ordinance or

[51:59] uh enacting a new city policy you're making a decision essentially like a

[52:03] judge so you have to be open-minded you have to hear what uh the various parties

[52:07] have to say and at the end you're going to have to make a decision just like a

[52:10] court would make a decision traditionally appeals can be

[52:14] handled in two ways and uh tonight we're going to follow one of them some appeals

[52:19] are handled in a process called denovo review and do quickly that means that

[52:25] you would be acting essentially is the new fact finders you would take evidence

[52:29] from the witnesses you would look at documents it would be a whole new

[52:32] hearing and then you would render a decision this is not a denova review

[52:37] tonight you're going to be conducting this as a pure appeal which means you're

[52:43] going to look at the record the so-called record that was what the

[52:47] decision of the body Below in this case the coastal Waters

[52:51] commission and you're going to review that record you're going to ask uh the

[52:56] appeal party Mr chassie you have an opportunity to ask him questions about

[53:00] the record about what the findings of the coastal Waters commission were and

[53:04] you'll have the same opportunity to ask the coastal Waters commission share this

[53:08] the very same questions even different ones at the end of that undertaking you

[53:13] will render your decision there are essentially going to

[53:17] be two questions you're going to need to look at tonight the first question is

[53:21] did the coastal Waters commission have substantial evidence upon which debates

[53:27] its decision that Mr chassis's peer permit should be

[53:32] revoked so the test is was there substantial evidence in the record to

[53:36] support a decision that Mr chassis violated section 11 18-20 and section

[53:41] 118-24 about storing personal property uh on city property the second question

[53:49] that you'll you decide is also whether the coastal Water Commission otherwise

[53:53] made some error did it misunderstand or misapply or misinterpret the city code

[53:59] so was there evidence to support their decision and did they correctly

[54:02] interpret the city code as it's written those are what you'll decide at

[54:07] the end the process is relatively straightforward because this is an

[54:12] appeal you're not going to be taking evidence from new Witnesses you're not

[54:15] going to be taking new documents Mr chassis is the appealing party starts

[54:21] first he you are to afford him a reasonable period of time and you can

[54:25] determine how much that is um uh before you start you can advise him and then

[54:32] after he completes his argument makes his explanation as to why he thinks he

[54:36] didn't violate the city Charter uh excuse me the city code uh you then will

[54:40] have opportunity to ask him questions and ask questions uh as you

[54:45] see fit and what you think will help you to reach your

[54:49] decision when that process is concluded uh you would invite up uh Mr Catz the

[54:55] chairman of the Coastal Waters commission he would explain to you his

[54:59] reasons why the commission found that Mr chassis did violate the city ordinance

[55:06] and again you will have the opportunity to question

[55:09] him um if you like you can afford Mr chassis

[55:15] as the appealing party a limited period of time to rebut the arguments of Mr

[55:22] Catz when he's finished uh a reminder that you're not going to be taking new

[55:25] evidence not new documents when that process is

[55:30] then complete you've heard from the two parties you will deliberate in

[55:34] public and essentially your decision is either to

[55:39] affirm which means approve or vacate the decision of the coastal Waters

[55:44] commission you would vote by motion and that's all done in public and then just

[55:49] as a reminder once you decide uh either party would have an option to appeal

[55:54] your decision to the main Superior Court up an Alfred doesn't mean they will but

[55:59] each side has that opportunity someone will be disappointed tonight in other

[56:02] words that's the nature of being a judge uh that's the burden you're handed

[56:06] tonight um as you undertake the process I'm here to answer questions if I can uh

[56:12] I'm happy to uh but my sense is you're well aware of how this uh process goes

[56:18] we've done uh appeals like this before um so any questions at this stage before

[56:23] we get started Council

[56:27] yeah before we start I'd like to acknowledge that as the liaison of the

[56:30] coastal Waters commission I was present uh during the initial uh appeal at the

[56:35] coastal Waters commission uh I I didn't take part in liberations nor did I vote

[56:40] I think I asked a clarifying question at one point uh is there any reason to

[56:44] recuse myself from from uh have you formed any opinions or view as to the

[56:49] matter have I simply sat and listened Mr chassis any objection to councelor

[56:55] Burman participating

[57:00] okay Council have any

[57:04] objection Mr Catz thank

[57:08] you um during the final vote is this a similar to a motion will will a motion

[57:15] be made and then a first and second a a motion to either firm or vacate would be

[57:19] made it would need a second and then a majority of you would need to support

[57:22] that motion for it to pass thank you yep

[57:29] anyone else have questions councilor Johnson thank you um just a clarifying

[57:33] question um in your letter uh attorney Murphy you indicate that the uh let me

[57:41] get this right the the moing permit was not a part of this appeal but in the

[57:47] packet several times it's indicated that U Mr chassis's moing permit was revoked

[57:55] it so the timing of this played out such that the night as I understand it the

[57:59] night of the hearing of the coastal Waters commission Mr chassis's permit

[58:03] was still live it hadn't been revoked yet it has subsequently been revoked as

[58:09] I understand it but that's not before you tonight okay I think it was

[58:13] discussed because it may have been anticipated that he might lose it uh is

[58:17] that's a separate action that would be a separate matter the moing permit has

[58:21] nothing to do with this absolutely because the coastal Waters commission

[58:24] hasn't acted on that yet there Mr chassis would have to appeal it and then

[58:28] it would go to Coastal Waters and then it would go to you so you're limited to

[58:33] the boat on city land and personal property on city

[58:41] land does that answer your question councelor Johnson it does um and I guess

[58:47] a follow-up question it might not be for attorney Murphy um but as we start this

[58:52] could the appropriate individual explain exactly what the uh peer use permit

[59:00] entails for the permitted person um I mean I think it's rather straightforward

[59:07] but to be honest I I never had a per permit use or pure use permit down there

[59:13] so I'm just trying to wrap my head around what it allows I'd recommend you

[59:17] ask both Mr chassis his understanding of it and Mr cat's his understanding of it

[59:22] and then you'll have a a clear thank you and if we do have Harbor Master

[59:27] chadborne here as well who understands the ordinance and the permit Council

[59:32] again that that mayor were not allowed to it's part of the process you wouldn't

[59:36] bring in Witnesses oh okay it's an appeal so you would hear separate thank

[59:40] you for clarifying that yes uh Mr Murphy it wasn't I reading through the packet

[59:44] and reading through you know just the uh the back and forth I was never clear to

[59:48] me what exactly is the nature of Mr chassis's business down there so

[59:52] therefore if if it's not new evidence it's not you can ask that question

[59:56] because obviously just for the simple context of trying to understand you know

[1:00:00] a how a went to be though so you know to the extent you need some basic

[1:00:04] information that's fair game for you to ask because you you you're having to

[1:00:08] make an informed decision we don't want you operating in the dark good

[1:00:11] absolutely thank you okay anyone else and is everyone set with a five

[1:00:17] minute speaking time for both Mr chassis and Mr

[1:00:22] Catz that sound fair okay so we will go with five minutes thank

[1:00:29] you

[1:00:36] okay good evening Mr chassis thank you for coming good evening council members

[1:00:41] my name is Michael chassis I'm the owner of w or Beach waterports LLC for the

[1:00:46] past five months it's been very difficult with everything that conspired

[1:00:51] was a property I leased for 13 years in Camp Ellis a lot of Camp Ellis stock

[1:00:56] tonight um the property also was my residence where I lived my business was

[1:01:02] there we sold Bait and Tackle and did various SP sports Paris sailing jet ski

[1:01:07] rentals bdle boards and kayak rentals this business is how I've made most of

[1:01:12] my income for my family for the last 13 years my make my whole income basically

[1:01:17] in three months and I have a supplemental job in the

[1:01:21] offseason um when the property got sold there's a lot of things that conspired

[1:01:26] that created this very difficult unexp unexpected

[1:01:31] Circumstance the the Harbor Master revoked my seven peer permits which is a

[1:01:37] lot of money for the city basically shutting down my entire business and

[1:01:42] that I never received any type any written warnings nothing legal about

[1:01:47] having my peer permits for vote in in all of the 12 years yeah we've you know

[1:01:56] there's been a lot of formal complaints about his conduct not just from me by

[1:02:02] other people even just in the last couple of weeks but he's always bent the

[1:02:08] rules for me over the years it's been a long time we've known each other loss

[1:02:12] have happened um he just you always just let it go let it go let it go so you

[1:02:19] kind of just get used to that kind of mentality where Danel let it slide Dan

[1:02:24] let it slide well then and he just bends in the rules as he pleases and now he's

[1:02:30] playing this hard ball on me and over a parking

[1:02:34] violation in the middle of winter with all these huge storms the road was out

[1:02:39] so I couldn't move stuff at a lot of time um I got the stuff out that was in

[1:02:45] the main parking lot and I actually cleaned the parking

[1:02:49] lot up really well after that with the machine and um the the stuff that was

[1:02:55] left in this spot in question was my driveway for 13 years and the pictures

[1:03:02] that are shown I have the overhead pictures if I could show you guys but

[1:03:07] and it shows you the exact area it's little right next to the house it was my

[1:03:11] driveway for 13 years um just I think revoking all my

[1:03:19] pair permits is shutting my entire business down which brings thousands of

[1:03:23] people to town I make camp a destination speaking about the trolley thing I was

[1:03:29] part of getting it a few years back I had a giant ad on that bus and I brought

[1:03:34] people from Old Orchard to Camp palis with it and it wasn't as busy as I had

[1:03:40] hoped but it we tried that and the um the trunker freet party that was old or

[1:03:47] Beach waterports we we did that party um my girlfriend and I we threw that party

[1:03:53] and two years and it got really successful

[1:03:57] um I would ra they were talking about maybe giving me a summons about the

[1:04:02] stuff left on the proper this was stuff that was left there in the middle of

[1:04:05] winter where there's no one down there in the entire Camp houseace as you all

[1:04:09] know was trashed um I mean if it just the rules were

[1:04:15] always just let to slide and slide and slide and they just shouldn't have been

[1:04:20] and it we wouldn't be in this situation um I know just a so many different

[1:04:26] points the the property lines where my boat and stuff was was always an

[1:04:30] argument with the city and the owner the previous owner they told me before that

[1:04:35] that's our property this is our property line and I mean it was all

[1:04:41] just you know I just I just thought that over the last 13 years you know just as

[1:04:47] long as you get it done get it get it fixed and everything will be good but

[1:04:52] this year just all of a sudden slapped with Pier permits revoked all at once

[1:04:58] and I thought that my moing was part of that so that's why I didn't do anything

[1:05:04] about the moing and we actually did speak about the moing at the last um at

[1:05:09] my first uh meeting with these guys and literally all the stuff in my

[1:05:15] where it was parked the city usually grant me a spot where I could put stuff

[1:05:20] and gave me it right away into the parking lot of my business and that's

[1:05:24] where everything was during this whole ordeal I just and I just think that

[1:05:30] revoking all my permits is shutting down my business which I actually invested

[1:05:34] $660,000 into last year with all new machines made everything look better

[1:05:39] again and that's it's a harsh punishment for for a parking

[1:05:44] violation it really is

[1:05:49] um I wish I could can I show them the overhead photos I of the no Mr chess the

[1:05:56] 5 minutes is up and we do have um photos in our packet I know but I wanted to

[1:06:00] show you the overhead that actually shows you where wasn't next to the house

[1:06:05] because that camera angle is just it makes it

[1:06:08] look a lot different the overhead does tells no Li attorney Murphy is that

[1:06:14] considered new evidence okay no unfortunately not I

[1:06:17] apologize okay okay thank you um next

[1:06:24] up oh yes please oh I'm sorry yes any questions from Mr

[1:06:29] chassis at this

[1:06:43] time this is difficult sorry for me this is difficult

[1:06:48] because as I understand what I've been tasked to do um is probably different

[1:06:54] than what I want to do as far

[1:06:57] as interpret things the way I'm seeing it or ask questions because apparently

[1:07:03] you can't have what is deemed uh new evidence but I I will

[1:07:08] ask the area because from the images that we have I it's not clear to me

[1:07:14] exactly where this equipment was located was it in the actual confines of what is

[1:07:22] a parking lot or was it on on there there was part of part of it was part of

[1:07:28] it was part before the last day and but the boat and the things that were left

[1:07:33] over after because the roads were I couldn't tow it up there's a huge boat

[1:07:37] and um that was in the the driveway that the Harbor Master said that's the city's

[1:07:43] property they're taking it back but you can park there for now and I went

[1:07:47] overtime with the park in there but I have been parking there in that exact

[1:07:51] spot for 13 years

[1:07:56] and that's again I'm just looking at a an aerial image

[1:08:01] that's what used to be a paper Street or a street at

[1:08:06] least what I'm looking at from uh the city's

[1:08:13] Maps which would be the city's property but I don't know if that's part of the

[1:08:18] parking

[1:08:22] lot yes please um this wouldn't be considered new evidence if I asked it's

[1:08:27] just a different perspective we look at Google Maps together and ask us to him

[1:08:31] to point out the location on evidence already presented to us for 11a that

[1:08:37] would not be new evidence it's just looking for clarification using commonly

[1:08:40] accepted mapping

[1:08:46] here uh I believe Alex and Communications can is it possible to

[1:08:52] bring up Google Maps on the screen

[1:09:03] got it Tim Tim yeah can you so you're looking at the record of

[1:09:10] documents you have before you which is what came to you in the packet those are

[1:09:14] what was be those were the documents before the coastal Waters commission

[1:09:18] from them could they reach a reasonable decision that Mr chassis was within or

[1:09:23] outside the city uh property so you're reviewing did they have evidence to

[1:09:29] conclude properly or or did they air uh but you can't conduct your own

[1:09:36] fact findings nope but looking at a map saying is this the area you're talking

[1:09:40] about is a clarifying question you can ask Mr chassis any kind of clarifying

[1:09:45] question you want going out beyond the record is not

[1:09:52] allowed so if we're not clear of the actual ual property in question MH we

[1:09:59] cannot get that clarified is that you you can ask Mr Kat

[1:10:04] and you can M Mr chassis based on the exhibits you have in the

[1:10:08] record show us explain to us where you understand city property be and and

[1:10:16] where do you understand is not city property you can ask that question but

[1:10:20] the record of documents is what you have you're within that Universe of documents

[1:10:24] otherwise you're cond conducting a denovo hearing you're going to allow all

[1:10:27] kinds of records and evidence which is was not how the appeal should be handled

[1:10:33] so we're taking the word of the documents for clarification that this is

[1:10:36] the city property uh Council huitt and then

[1:10:41] Council Burman can I just ask a question you mentioned that it was property you

[1:10:45] would own for several years at the time of the violation did you own the

[1:10:49] property I may I ask the address excuse me you said that it was property at

[1:10:54] least you leased it okay was it under your lease at the time of the violation

[1:10:59] I was still um I was still a resident there yes okay and can I ask the address

[1:11:04] of the property when it got sold is when all my stuff got moved off the par off

[1:11:09] the parking lot into the into the city parking lot they required me to move my

[1:11:14] equipment so they could close on the property the new buyers and they had

[1:11:19] made a deal with me to make a lease for my for my um my bait shop in the Beach

[1:11:25] area that I rented my my business from where I rented out myself

[1:11:31] and they gave me a huge huge runaround and I spoke about this at the at the

[1:11:37] harbor commission so it's not new and um I was the harbor Messa thought he was

[1:11:42] lied to by me and he wasn't he was lied to by the new homeowner

[1:11:47] and the new homeowner that had me do change my addresses change the insurance

[1:11:53] reinsure the property I jumped through all the Hoops for my lease because I

[1:11:57] wanted to get the equipment back onto the parking lot to get it out of the

[1:12:02] city's area um he backed out on me and everything kind of fell apart from there

[1:12:09] and it's it's been it's been a nightmare because we've been there for a really

[1:12:14] long time and is a very confusing situation okay thank you I really wish I

[1:12:22] could show you the overheads because shows you where where where the lines

[1:12:27] are and everything I can't show you

[1:12:31] that y Council bman uh just to clarify some of the discussion I think that the

[1:12:37] problem that we're tasked with is determining whether the coastal Waters

[1:12:41] commission had sufficient evidence that the boats and trash were on city

[1:12:46] property that that's I think that's the question that we're asking using the

[1:12:50] evidence that we have in front of us and if we determine that they had sufficient

[1:12:54] evidence then we may have confirm their decision and if we find they didn't have

[1:12:57] sufficient evidence then we might decide that we want to revoke their finding but

[1:13:01] but I think that's the exact question which is why introducing additional

[1:13:04] evidence is difficult because we have to determine whether they had sufficient

[1:13:08] evidence based on their record and I think that that's the question we're

[1:13:12] discussing is is is exactly uh the issue at hand uh but then to Mr chassis could

[1:13:18] you just clarify the timeline a little bit because I've gotten a little bit

[1:13:22] confused in the narrative so you had leased the property uh from which you

[1:13:27] ran your business and resided it sounded like yes and as part of that some of

[1:13:31] your equipment was stored at that property always right in in in what in

[1:13:36] what you're calling your driveway at at some point that property was sold and

[1:13:42] now you no longer had access to that property you had some equipment that had

[1:13:46] to be moved from that property onto now what's the Peer parking lot is that

[1:13:52] correct some of it was on the actual parking parking lot and some of it was

[1:13:56] in the driveway at question right and so and so and so you're pointing out I got

[1:14:00] most of the stuff out of the main parking lot and cleaned it all up way

[1:14:04] before April 10th but there was some some some stuff was in the parking lot

[1:14:08] some stuff was in a driveway driveway SL city park and your and your assertion is

[1:14:14] that there's some confusion about whether that is affiliated with the

[1:14:18] property whether that's city property it's always been a thing with the with

[1:14:22] that property line but at but at a different point you said you had to

[1:14:25] remove all of your materials from the property in order for the closing to go

[1:14:30] through yes so at that point was there still your equipment in the driveway or

[1:14:37] was it all off the driveway at that point I moved the boat it was nothing

[1:14:40] was in the driveway when they told me like Dan told me to park in the parking

[1:14:44] lot I put the boat in the thing right on the side where it's the parking lot with

[1:14:50] the paper Road they call it and then did it go back into the driveway or did it

[1:14:54] stay in the new stay in there stayed right there was like half in the

[1:14:57] driveway and a bit of it was on the line but the the the strike for the parking

[1:15:02] lot it was way outside the boat but but the bank and the property owners were

[1:15:05] satisfied that your equipment was off the property at that point is that

[1:15:08] correct they never even needed to me to do that it was just uh something to get

[1:15:13] me off the property I believe okay cuz no one ever came down there for but but

[1:15:18] but that was the final location of your of your materials yes sir okay yeah

[1:15:22] thank you

[1:15:26] Council Johnston thank you again I have all sorts of thoughts and comments um

[1:15:32] but I will try to stick to the record um just take me back since again I I

[1:15:39] read through the packet it's not necessarily clear exactly how this

[1:15:43] transpired starting in January correct January sounds like the property that

[1:15:49] you lived at also operated a business out of Fairly familiar with it um

[1:15:55] was being sold so basically you were being forced out um at that point it

[1:16:01] would appear that uh you had some

[1:16:05] communication with the Harbor Master and asked if you could locate your equipment

[1:16:11] into the city's parking lot there was nothing

[1:16:16] official he said I could but that's how it got there he didn't just overnight

[1:16:21] say I'm going to put my stuff into the city's I asked asked I asked for okay so

[1:16:25] you had some level of uh permission he told me to park it there and it sat

[1:16:32] there until it was no longer allowed all these storms and then the action was get

[1:16:39] this off the city's property so it was a period of several months that the

[1:16:43] city in essence had no problem with you being in violation of

[1:16:49] these ordinance is is that your opinion he I want he wanted me to get it

[1:16:54] off there and I got up as but during that period from January I don't march

[1:17:01] to March there was no get this off the city's property until we had those

[1:17:06] storms and whatnot I there was a lot going on with storms and we did talk a

[1:17:10] couple times about getting stuff and I had got down there and when they were

[1:17:14] cleaning out property there there was so much of other people's junk everywhere

[1:17:18] from the storm we were just picking up we cleaned

[1:17:22] the entire Beach and it was all right there

[1:17:25] and I did I should have got into the dumpster that the city provided for a

[1:17:31] while I should have worked harder on doing it um I just think losing my

[1:17:37] entire business over something like this is where I'm why is why I'm here yeah um

[1:17:45] now you stated this was over a a parking

[1:17:50] violation the city or Coastal Waters sites several sections of the code um I

[1:17:56] I guess my question for you is how do you view this as a parking violation ver

[1:18:01] a violation of the ordinances violation what the ordinances

[1:18:06] that they've again the ORD the ordinance say a storage of vehicles but I mean I

[1:18:13] didn't forcefully store it there I was told to park there and it ended up I

[1:18:17] couldn't get it off in time and I was promised a lease on that

[1:18:22] on the back on the back of that property where I could put my stuff back on and

[1:18:26] some really shady business deals happen with that and all of a sudden I'm out of

[1:18:31] there and I just get my my peer permit being

[1:18:35] revoked over storage issue is so so just again

[1:18:42] the comment of parking violation that was a a generalization because

[1:18:46] essentially you parked your stuff there um but but you you you would agree that

[1:18:51] you're in violation of of what the actual ordinance is not hasn't been

[1:18:58] enforced if I could point on that map that you pulled up where it was I'll

[1:19:02] show you where the stuff

[1:19:08] was are you all at Council Johnson yeah I am for

[1:19:19] now it yeah I'm it okay councelor gun then councel rer

[1:19:25] thank you Madame mayor uh Mr chassis I was reading through the um for lack of

[1:19:29] better term the sort of the narrative sort of the back and forth on the text

[1:19:32] messages that was included because that's that's all we can go with is what

[1:19:36] with the coastal Waters commission uh found and in following the narrative um

[1:19:43] it was clear to me that the Harbor Master wanted you to have your uh items

[1:19:48] office the property at a certain point what's not

[1:19:53] clear to me again and attorney Murphy will stop me if this is introducing new

[1:19:57] evidence though what's not clear to me is exactly under the circumstances since

[1:20:01] from my interpretation it was clear what the Harbor Master wanted you to do um

[1:20:07] including a timetable moving timetable as it was why you did not under the

[1:20:14] circumstances move the move the items given that there was certainly an

[1:20:19] urgency to it it wasn't sort of a move it whenever you want to Mike you're

[1:20:23] going to be all fine as opposed to it was more you need to do this now I am

[1:20:28] really I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and find you know that's because

[1:20:32] over all these years it's been very lenient and you just you know I was

[1:20:39] waiting for that lease to go through I did all the paperwork I did everything

[1:20:43] and they backed out on the last day and I got the stuff out of the the the

[1:20:49] serious area where it was in the way of it wasn't in the way of anything it was

[1:20:54] in front of it was in an old EAS that I had that they took away from me a couple

[1:20:58] years ago um and the stuff in the driveways just where I would had parked

[1:21:01] for years and years I figured Dan has always been just lenient he just you

[1:21:07] know he let you do let you go he just let gives you a break you I just thought

[1:21:12] I was going to get a break and I didn't get a break but so you if if I may you

[1:21:16] didn't have any thought that perhaps under the circumstances if a Situation's

[1:21:20] not going right as you indicated with this lease or if the you know Harbor

[1:21:26] Master was adant that you need to have your stuff out you didn't think perhaps

[1:21:30] given the uncertainness of the situation I probably should have you know rented a

[1:21:34] storage sack somewhere up up nor Saka for a month or something just to cover

[1:21:38] your basis you you you're you're indicating that under the circumstances

[1:21:43] based on your pess past relationship with the city that you did not think

[1:21:47] that was a necessary action to take I was sure of the fact because I took

[1:21:53] these people's word that they were giving me my lease back and I was going

[1:21:56] to be a be able to put it right back onto where I always stored it for the

[1:22:00] last 12 13 years okay so both I waited and waited and then they literally

[1:22:05] backed out and I can't show you any of this evidence that's that's not it's

[1:22:08] that's not relevant though my my to my question my question was so to clarify

[1:22:14] both the the situation you had with the lease with the people with the lease and

[1:22:18] relationship with do with Mr chadborne uh gave you

[1:22:22] enough impetus to believe that nothing would happen if AB absolutely and that's

[1:22:29] how I've just been I've learned it to be down in campal is very lenient and

[1:22:34] forgiving and I just is how how it's always been okay I just I want to see

[1:22:40] what your point of view on that was thank you thank you yes sir Council

[1:22:43] Archer yes thank you mayor um as we've discussed is we can only consider what

[1:22:47] we see here um so I'd like your opinion on what I'm looking at um and you may

[1:22:52] come to me uh to LA on 310 we have a picture of a can you point to me where a

[1:22:58] city marker oh you come come to me um I don't know if we have this as

[1:23:04] electronic versions um can you point to me a city marker a city Granite please

[1:23:09] uh indicating where city property lies in this picture that this is all

[1:23:14] that we can consider can you show me there's not one okay uh 310 photo B is

[1:23:21] that your stuff uh can you show a marker of where

[1:23:25] the city property is compared to the property that you had access to at the

[1:23:31] time 411a not done yet sorry can you show me a property

[1:23:37] marker indicating where the property line is and where the city of sako's

[1:23:40] line begins all right this one piece of evidence I'll call it undocumented there

[1:23:45] is no 411 number um can you show me a property line marker anything stone that

[1:23:52] would indicate where the property barrier is and the last one

[1:23:55] 41c and is that your stuff and can you show me a property

[1:24:00] marker or any such of the sort indicating where the city property lies

[1:24:04] and where your own is thank

[1:24:11] you that's all I have thank you councelor Johnston yeah then councelor

[1:24:17] hatch uh again seven permits you said were

[1:24:22] revoked and and previously you say you know it's kind of lenient

[1:24:27] down there had you ever been threatened with revoution of those permits no just

[1:24:33] he just always like hey you get it done you know oh hey as long as no one

[1:24:39] doesn't say anything you'll be all right get them just make your money this month

[1:24:43] pay it next month that's how it was it was lenient and if it was always done by

[1:24:47] the rules I would have been into that mode you know if it was always strict

[1:24:52] and by the book none of this would have ever

[1:24:56] happened thank you Council hatch thank you mayor mcf I just want to get my head

[1:25:03] around the um the lease agreement here so you said

[1:25:07] you you lived in this property for 13 years I and you had a you had a a a

[1:25:14] lease to live there and use it uh for business so this a written lease I had a

[1:25:20] lease for the previous owners correct okay and and when did that lease expire

[1:25:26] my lease expired last year I was on a month to month from at that point month

[1:25:29] to month okay and that explains that so so the new owners had

[1:25:35] no responsibility to honor any previous lease agreements because you were no we

[1:25:41] had we had made an agreement together because we had actually had a deal to

[1:25:44] buy the property together okay but you didn't have a you didn't have a written

[1:25:49] lease you didn't have no it was being processed by the lawyers okay all right

[1:25:54] which is why I was waiting so long I was like come on give me this so I can get

[1:25:57] this stuff out of the lot okay so so so you were

[1:26:03] anticipating having access and rights to that space But that never materialized

[1:26:09] absolutely all right and um and then the party that bought the that bought the

[1:26:15] property um were you aware of any surveying activity that usually

[1:26:21] accompanies a a property trans action um no no

[1:26:28] okay all right and then there's evidence in the record that you uh had

[1:26:34] historically had some challenges paying uh fees on time um you know every time I

[1:26:41] was late on a bill I I came and I paid the late payment and they just let they

[1:26:45] always let it slide every time it was late they just let it slide this it

[1:26:50] was someone else not doing their job okay all right thank

[1:27:00] you anyone else councilor rer yes thank you I just

[1:27:06] want to pick it back off councelor hatch's statement about when you said

[1:27:09] you were in no lease when you have a lease and the lease expires it

[1:27:12] automatically goes into month to month unless you have vacated the property so

[1:27:16] I'm just looking for clarification did you vacate the property I hadn't vacated

[1:27:20] the property because you were still in a month-to Monon lease which required

[1:27:22] 30day notice which required mailing to you do you have did you receive any

[1:27:26] mailings no never uh did you when a uh notice to quit occurs and there's

[1:27:34] property left over uh the new landlord or the land owner has to give you a

[1:27:40] notice saying that you have so many days to remove the property did not the city

[1:27:44] did the owner of the property do that no they did not okay thank you Council

[1:27:49] liberman sorry I just want to follow up on that because that's I'm confused now

[1:27:53] I I thought the new owner had asked you to remove your your materials from their

[1:27:57] property the new owners asked me to to remove the old the new owners asked me

[1:28:04] to remve it so I could close on the property before they closed on the

[1:28:08] property because they agreed that they were going to give me a

[1:28:12] lease to keep my business running as he said business as usual don't worry I

[1:28:17] just need your stuff off the lot so I can close and then you can put back and

[1:28:21] and when did that closing occur it was sometimes

[1:28:27] in mid to late March right so so it kept dragging on

[1:28:33] and dragging on and dragging on so so so so so the new owners took possession of

[1:28:37] the property sometime in March right and now we're in April with

[1:28:42] some of these texts is that correct March or early April my stuff

[1:28:48] was out of there and I was in I before they took ownership of the house

[1:28:55] right but so so so you knew your material was not on their property at

[1:28:59] the time and and it was on city property

[1:29:03] there's no it was there's no debate about that the old my old driver would

[1:29:08] became the city's property again according to the Harbor Master they were

[1:29:11] taking it back okay that's what he told me thank

[1:29:17] you I parked there for 13 years okay anyone else

[1:29:25] no further questions for Mr chassis at this time okay thank you Mr chassis

[1:29:30] thank you appreciate your

[1:29:37] time okay next up we will bring uh Mr Katz who is the chair of the coastal

[1:29:43] Waters

[1:29:46] commission thank you mayor counselors and administrator

[1:29:52] bohenko um um during the question and answer period

[1:29:59] uh if you have them after I uh read my remarks I'm going to call on the Harbor

[1:30:07] Master because uh the Harbor Master has the intimate

[1:30:11] knowledge of the trials and tribulations that have gone on there for the last 13

[1:30:17] years with this particular tenant on the pier I'll read to you from the letter

[1:30:24] that I sent him following the uh Coastal Waters

[1:30:30] commission uh hearing of his appeal understand that chapter 439 the primary

[1:30:37] function of the coastal Waters commission is to hear appeals of actions

[1:30:43] taken by the Harbor Master the Harbor Master is an

[1:30:48] individual member of the team of Sako he is not a member of the coastal water

[1:30:54] commission and does not vote on that commission the Harbor Master role is

[1:30:58] defined by total 38 of Maine law Maine deals with

[1:31:06] 3400 miles of Coastline divided up among 144

[1:31:15] communities and it is a solemn and difficult task to manage all those

[1:31:21] resources and it's done with and through title

[1:31:24] 38 with the authority of city council who chooses the individual to be that

[1:31:30] Harbor Master under Direction and guidance by

[1:31:35] the Maine Harbor Masters Association

[1:31:39] and comes before uh the coastal Waters commission uh if a situation

[1:31:47] develops as this did our role at that point is to advise

[1:31:53] city council because we have knowledge of that area all seven of the members of

[1:32:00] this commission live in Ward 4 many of them live very close to Camp

[1:32:07] Ellis they know what goes on in the pier two of our members are commercial

[1:32:12] fishermen who are on that Pier every day directions that are given to the

[1:32:17] Harbor Master by the Harbor Master to one individual have to carry over to

[1:32:23] everybody else and they have to

[1:32:26] see that those rules and regulations are being forced on everybody else because

[1:32:32] everybody down there is fighting for space fighting for

[1:32:36] opportunities to earn a living and the Harbor Master fully understands that and

[1:32:41] that's why to be fair he has to meet out the restrictions and the corrections as

[1:32:50] necessary so we had our meeting on May 14th

[1:32:54] to uh handle this appeal and at the appeal the first speaker was the Harbor

[1:33:02] Master who read the document that you have in your packet

[1:33:07] hm1 Harbor Master one and when he was done with that the

[1:33:13] members of the commission asked questions and received

[1:33:19] answers and then it was Mr chassis's turn to speak

[1:33:24] and when he was done we had an opportunity to ask him questions and the

[1:33:30] Harbor Master could ask Mr chassis and Mr chassis could ask the Harbor

[1:33:35] Master we then came to the time when we had to make a decision how to proceed

[1:33:41] with the vote we decided that we would make a

[1:33:45] motion to deny the appeal of Mr chassis and

[1:33:52] there was discussion on the motion now on the commission we have the two

[1:33:56] fishermen we have uh several businessmen we have a couple of

[1:34:02] recreational boers and they all asked questions one

[1:34:07] of the big ones was what's going to happen now on the pier because he

[1:34:13] doesn't have a place to keep his stuff you know maybe maybe he needs to

[1:34:18] find a harbor where there is a place where he can keep his stuff because the

[1:34:22] contention between the Harbor Master and this particular tenant is going to go on

[1:34:28] forever because the tenant just didn't seem to

[1:34:32] realize what was the backing of the Harbor Master who is this guy this guy

[1:34:38] is certified by you the city council this guy is following rules and

[1:34:44] regulations set down by the state of Maine in title 38 trying to keep a 3400

[1:34:51] mile Coastline under control without trash and lobster pots and all kinds of

[1:34:56] things all over the place that don't belong there so we sent him a

[1:35:02] letter on May 18th thank you Mr cats your five minutes is you like to just

[1:35:07] close it up okay thank you very much so we just uh we took the vote and we

[1:35:13] decided that that would be our recommendation to you would be to

[1:35:17] support our finding that his peer permit should be revoked thank you thank you if

[1:35:24] you'd like to stay up at the podium I will yes but I may have to call the

[1:35:27] Harbor Master if if okay per the attorney unfortunately we can't do that

[1:35:32] um that is bringing in a secondary or a new um witness I guess would be the ter

[1:35:38] I'm sorry I didn't understand that yeah okay anyone have questions for Mr Catz

[1:35:44] councilor Johnston thank you I go back to the first question I had at the

[1:35:48] beginning of this which is uh what does the peer use permit allow for and well I

[1:35:57] guess it's not your main I'm still curious about the moing permit and can

[1:36:01] you have one without the other or do you need both yes you can have a moing

[1:36:07] without a peer permit um mostly they go together because the fishermen need to

[1:36:14] be able to offload various items uh lobster traps uh fishing gear uh stuff

[1:36:22] to keep their boats running and the way they do that is by using the

[1:36:26] pier so um if you have a boat on a moing uh you need a way to get to the

[1:36:33] the boat because you you just can't walk out onto your boat there's it's not a uh

[1:36:38] it's not a marina it it's a fixed structure and

[1:36:43] there's rapidly Flowing Tide and you have to be able to get out to

[1:36:47] your your boat and then bring it back to the pier in order to service it and to

[1:36:53] keep your boat tied up at the pier for whatever amount of time it takes you to

[1:36:57] offload your catch or load your traps you need to have a peer permit to occupy

[1:37:03] that space on the pier for that amount of time and that's what it's for so

[1:37:08] would I need a peer use permit to just put in my canoe or boat at the public

[1:37:13] boat launch when you get a peer use permit you

[1:37:17] get [Music]

[1:37:20] um you get the ability to use the Pier for a short period of

[1:37:26] time uh at the pier the upper real Pier area but not the parking lot I guess yes

[1:37:34] okay now as far as the parking lot's concerned if you get a peer use permit

[1:37:38] you get two parking permits with that that let you park your

[1:37:44] car on the pier without having to pay two for each peer permit that you

[1:37:51] get Okay so if if Mr chassis had seven permits would

[1:37:58] he have had 14 parking spaces I don't I don't know specifically

[1:38:04] how many parking permits he was given but I know that there would be some I I

[1:38:10] don't know exactly how many that originally started out as two Pier

[1:38:14] permits and then it grew over time and I don't know whether they increase the

[1:38:18] number of permits for him or not I don't have the knowledge of that and in the

[1:38:23] pass again it's just based off what I've I've seen through the years kind of

[1:38:28] operated his business from the pier area is that a fair statement he told us in

[1:38:35] the beginning he worked out of his car uh he has a large car like an Explorer

[1:38:41] or something and he was able to use that as a mobile office to but if I wanted to

[1:38:48] I think he did Jet Skis similar things if I wanted to rent the jet skis

[1:38:54] I would go to the area you know the Bait Shack and and rent from there because

[1:39:00] from my perspective it always looked like he was kind of operating a business

[1:39:03] off the side of the pier um but he had those permits that kind of allowed him

[1:39:08] yeah which he probably used for his personal

[1:39:10] vehicle but that has nothing to do with the the public boat launch no okay um

[1:39:17] and then the other question I had was so the the revocation is that permanently

[1:39:22] or is that just for this season that is this revocation that we approved is

[1:39:30] permanent permanent okay

[1:39:35] yeah yes councelor huitt first question is there a

[1:39:41] precedent of re revoking permits for this breaking of this ordinance

[1:39:47] previously that is one of the big reasons why every couple of years you

[1:39:51] get this ordinance here to make revisions to because we find some other

[1:39:57] reason that some ingenious person has come up with to skate around the

[1:40:04] regulations um so you're saying there's no previous precedent of this

[1:40:08] occurring well since I've been the chairman we've come to the council uh

[1:40:13] twice before and both times uh the revocation was reversed by the council

[1:40:21] okay my next question is there a clear record of the steps if

[1:40:26] someone does break the ordinance what the consequences will be or what they

[1:40:30] need to do to fix it in chapter 118 the consequence is revocation of the

[1:40:37] peer permit okay yeah thank you it's clearly in that regulation Council bman

[1:40:43] yeah thank you I want I want to clarify some of the questions about the the peer

[1:40:46] use permits yes right and separate that from from I think questions about the

[1:40:50] boat launch and also what the peer use permits are for so the seven peer use

[1:40:54] permits in this case were likely used for the for the jet skis that were

[1:40:59] attached to the pier right that's correct and and so a passenger would

[1:41:02] rent the jet ski they would then use the pier to board the jet ski and that's

[1:41:06] what the peer use permits allowed and with a revocation of the peer use

[1:41:10] permits those jet skis could no longer be attached to the pier and thus

[1:41:13] probably not be at Camp Ellis is that your understanding well actually I think

[1:41:18] more of the way it works is the person is wearing a bathing suit and this uh

[1:41:22] little uh float was next to the pier and the jet skis were tied up there so

[1:41:29] you're wearing a bathing suit you're not wearing any shoes so they just walked on

[1:41:33] the beach and got onto the jet ski and took off but but the jet so they didn't

[1:41:36] go down the pier and out out the gang but the but the jetskis could no longer

[1:41:40] be there without peer use permits is that that's correct yeah that's correct

[1:41:44] that's the consequence of the revocation that's correct uh one could still access

[1:41:49] a moing through the public boat launch if they wanted to launch a dinghy or

[1:41:53] something some other absolutely uh but but they could no longer be attached to

[1:41:56] the peer no and that's the separation between the moing permits and and the

[1:42:00] peer use permit is that correct that's correct yeah thank

[1:42:05] you councelor gum then councelor Johnston uh chairman Katz I'm uh reading

[1:42:12] over your um letter here to Mr chassis yes and obviously we have the two

[1:42:19] violations and the print information of what the immediate cause of this entire

[1:42:24] situation was um I'm reading the line and I'm going to quote you here he's

[1:42:30] violated the storage clause on a number of occasions including storing his

[1:42:33] friend's boat in the parking lot for an entire winter that seems to

[1:42:37] inform as a as a um similar a similar um subject on the second violation inform

[1:42:45] the commission's decision um at the same time it's not really pertinent to the

[1:42:50] actual cause itself uh cause of the actual reification itself because that

[1:42:56] so my question is and this is may be kind of a loaded question but bear with

[1:43:00] me because it's a logical one especially given uh Mr chassis's testimony a few

[1:43:05] minutes ago um if this uh gentleman was inv violation so blatantly by leaving a

[1:43:12] his a friend's boat in the parking lot for an entire winter uh why was not any

[1:43:17] action taken in previous years um up until this point and at this

[1:43:22] point even in this section it this you know doesn't speak to any of those it

[1:43:26] just informs his sort of behavior if you could put a little color on that please

[1:43:30] well of course again as I said the Harbor Master would be better at that

[1:43:34] but I'll take a shot at it that boat just appeared there it hadn't been there

[1:43:39] every year we came down to to the pier and there's this huge boat sitting on

[1:43:46] the side of the parking lot and we talked to the chief of police

[1:43:51] what can you do with it well we don't tow boats well how you going to get this

[1:43:56] boat out of the parking lot who whose boat is it nobody came to the Harbor

[1:44:01] Master and said can I have permission to leave my boat there or I'm only going to

[1:44:05] leave it there for a week I promise there was no communication the

[1:44:10] Harbor Master has been has been giving and giving and giving trying to keep Mr

[1:44:17] chassis in business down there and all that happens is he's been taken

[1:44:21] advantage of time and time and time again there's no there's no real

[1:44:26] communication there's no real reinforcement or recognition that the

[1:44:30] Harbor Master has the authority for this this is his job and the people who were

[1:44:36] down there the fishermen uh the recreational boter

[1:44:41] expect that they will get the same treatment that Mr chassis got they can

[1:44:46] leave stuff laying around they can put a boat there if they decide they want to

[1:44:50] do it and that's not that's not how this thing

[1:44:55] works and uh that's the real issue there and so that what we're saying here is

[1:45:00] that yes the two major items that he was um uh dealing with in his appeal and the

[1:45:08] the basis on his revocation but there's all this other stuff that the Harbor

[1:45:15] Master is documenting in the document that he gave you uh

[1:45:19] hm1 uh which by the way he had reproduced at his own personal

[1:45:24] expense uh and handed out copies of these things uh because he takes this

[1:45:29] very seriously and he's documented it very carefully and that's what we based

[1:45:34] our decision on that this was just going to go on and on and on forever if we

[1:45:39] give Mr chassis a second chance we give him a second chance okay what's going to

[1:45:45] happen next week what's going to happen next year when a boat turns up in your

[1:45:48] parking lot so that's where we left it the way

[1:45:52] we did as a

[1:45:58] commission Council arer yes thank you Madame mayor I'm looking at a letter

[1:46:03] written by the Harbor Master um there's no evidence or anything on here uh

[1:46:08] written on May 14th I want to bring you down to what the one two three

[1:46:14] four call it the third paragraph on the second page where uh it states and I'm

[1:46:20] reading as as written I had a discussion with Town ad ad ministrator on April 9th

[1:46:24] the conclusion of the discussion would give Mr chassis an additional 5 days at

[1:46:27] which point all remaining items would be removed however necessary or towed at

[1:46:31] his expense the new deadline would be Sunday April 14th at noon a little less

[1:46:35] than a month from the original deadline the last item left at the lot at 4:15 on

[1:46:40] Sunday April 14th so I will give you that he missed the original deadline yes

[1:46:45] but this so we knew that all the materials had left the the grounds and

[1:46:51] then on May 14th we now charge him there's no Second Chance on that one

[1:46:56] second chance would have been or offering if it was May 14th and the

[1:47:01] materials were still there if it was April 7 on that Sunday at 12:01 then

[1:47:07] that's a punitive that's where you go for that route however he had remedied

[1:47:12] the situation so there is no second chance because it was already done yes

[1:47:15] it was delayed I will argue that it was 4 hours after the fact one could argue

[1:47:20] he was probably there that morning also working on the project as well and you

[1:47:23] just didn't have enough time that day this is where I'm starting to see a

[1:47:27] again the the case notes the documents of of noting is

[1:47:32] is most of it's done through text we make a phone call we didn't write a note

[1:47:36] so it's hard to as our attorney had suggest I can only look at this but what

[1:47:41] I'm seeing is someone who actually did eventually I'll give you that but by

[1:47:46] default the city administrator's own words if this is to be accurate was we

[1:47:50] will give the gentleman an extra 5 days he was late by 4 hours to me that is the

[1:47:55] attempt of trying to do right again he may have a history I cannot include that

[1:48:00] history in this comment the reason why he lost his permit was because of a

[1:48:05] violation of the storage but when I look at this yes 4 hours on a Sunday at noon

[1:48:13] I don't know if noon is an ordinance thing if it was just a number

[1:48:16] arbitrarily decided a Time arbitrarily decided but we decided to punish after

[1:48:20] the fact when it already been amended that I have a problem with that's

[1:48:25] totally wrong I don't believe people all the attorney has specify that let me let

[1:48:31] me just say this you have a pile of stuff here yes you got one thing that

[1:48:38] you may get me to agree with however in chapter 118 okay there is no such thing

[1:48:44] as a second chance no you can read that whole 25 page document the city

[1:48:49] administrator gave permission and we have to honor that that is the city

[1:48:53] itself saying you have five more additional days okay and he did it the

[1:48:59] fifth fourth hour after I do recognize that I I I understand counselor so that

[1:49:07] that is that has got the least amount of schmalz in it okay but is that one thing

[1:49:14] was that the precipice event read read the letter that I sent to him on uh May

[1:49:19] 18th way after the fact yes way after the the fact but it

[1:49:24] itemizes all of the headaches that this man has had to deal with in his job

[1:49:30] every single day so were we punitive to his history or were we punitive to the

[1:49:34] action this is about the action I get the history and to be honest I see a

[1:49:39] pattern I do I'm not going to win that argument with you thank you

[1:49:45] though Council Johnston thank you and councel bman yeah pigy P picky backing

[1:49:50] on councel Archer's point and and I think uh councelor gun also asked a

[1:49:57] similar question um you know in in the packet I don't have the exact page but

[1:50:03] we have an additional issues and violations that I think it's near the

[1:50:07] last page that are that are noted um I guess my question

[1:50:14] is were these ever officially cited as violations or were they again just hey

[1:50:21] you need to fix this you've done this you've done that but no official

[1:50:25] notification that uh Mr chassis was in a violation of any portion of the

[1:50:30] ordinance aside from the latest uh violations no they're just so so it's

[1:50:40] they're in the harbor Master's log book so to speak all right I I just they're

[1:50:44] on the pile I would I would add that it's probably not Germain to this topic

[1:50:50] then because they lack official

[1:50:55] notification and I would just add we've got one person

[1:51:00] here we don't have all of our peer users behaving like this if they did you

[1:51:05] wouldn't be able to use the pier couldn't tie up a boat you couldn't

[1:51:10] land a tuna fish you couldn't Harvest your lobsters because there'd be junk

[1:51:13] all over the

[1:51:20] pier Council Johnson I guess yeah I'm good Council

[1:51:27] bman yeah thank you chairman Kat could you clarify two things for us one uh the

[1:51:36] the April 14th deadline at noon was the one that that councilor Archer was just

[1:51:41] referring to yes but it looks like there were there were earlier an earlier

[1:51:45] deadline of of March 17th is that correct yes there

[1:51:50] was uh and in addition uh if we looked at uh section 118 About

[1:51:57] Storage uh how long does that ordinance allow for storage of personal effects at

[1:52:03] the

[1:52:06] pier it doesn't it doesn't allow for personal

[1:52:10] storage at the pier maybe you have an exceptional circumstance maybe you had a

[1:52:16] death in the family you're having a funeral service on Sunday and you can't

[1:52:20] clear the lobster traps so you have to store them on the piers so you call the

[1:52:25] Harbor Master on his phone and say you know Harbor Master chadborne we have to

[1:52:31] leave the lobster traps on the pier we don't just dump the stuff there and walk

[1:52:36] away that's when the lack the the no storage Clause kicks

[1:52:42] in thank

[1:52:46] you anyone else

[1:52:53] okay not seeing anyone thank you thank you do any counselors have any followup

[1:52:58] or um additional questions for Mr chassis one

[1:53:05] option okay not seeing

[1:53:10] any okay any uh deliberation or discussion between

[1:53:20] yourselves okay not seeing any is there a

[1:53:24] motion um yeah I don't have the document uh make a motion to vacate the ruling

[1:53:29] made on sorry I don't have it in front of me May 14th 2024 decision of the

[1:53:35] coastal Waters commission okay there has been motion

[1:53:38] made by councelor Archer to vacate the ruling by the coastal Waters commission

[1:53:43] is there a second second second by councelor

[1:53:47] Johnston any additional discussion or comments

[1:53:52] councelor Archer then councelor gun yes thank you mayor uh the reason why I made

[1:53:56] the motion to vacate is again I do believe that there is a history showing

[1:53:59] and uh there's a history showing of violations however those violations were

[1:54:04] not officially notified to the appet um when we look at this it was clear that

[1:54:11] we can't I just wanted to look at a map I couldn't even use a map as external

[1:54:14] evidence so I had to base it off all of this you notice the Mr chy could not

[1:54:19] identify where the city line is that's one argument that I have but the most

[1:54:22] important argument is that we're only looking at violation of section 11820

[1:54:27] storage um and it doesn't matter exceptions were given so even if we said

[1:54:32] that yes there was a storage issue on our city administrator gave until

[1:54:38] rightfully win his authority too I want that to be known um he gave a 5-day

[1:54:43] notice and the uh appellant was able to get it done within a few hours after

[1:54:48] that how punitive are we going to be to our local business and when we're

[1:54:52] talking about 4 hours when we had already given extensions for weeks at a

[1:54:56] time so for me it's less about the everything else it's about what I've

[1:55:01] seen in this packet um is that to me within 4 hours means he was

[1:55:08] on site he had not left the property around noon I can't prove it because we

[1:55:11] don't have pictures um but um I'm saying that he did the work in in by the end of

[1:55:17] that day on end of that working day that itself vacates the violation

[1:55:22] of the peer use violation with its permits because if we don't see item one

[1:55:28] as a violation you cannot use two as a violation of a violation that did not

[1:55:32] occur that is my reason for vacating is that to be honest due process

[1:55:39] notification we didn't and again I'll take it's part of the city we just

[1:55:43] needed to get better with our our documentation great Council gun if you

[1:55:47] don't mind I'm going to let City administrator Roan go speak so you're

[1:55:51] telling me that you're re you're relying your whole

[1:55:55] decision on my allowing somebody five extra days to allow somebody the

[1:56:02] opportunity the good graces to be able to move their equipment is that what

[1:56:07] you're basing it on they vac they did it with what you asked them to do that's

[1:56:11] called permission you have based on you're you're basing that vac vacating

[1:56:16] the decision on just a small piece of this entire document

[1:56:22] one vacating one vacates two by default that's all I have to say and

[1:56:29] when I make my decisions especially when I do my business it's not personal nor

[1:56:33] here I am saying that I was just told I cannot consider additional evidence this

[1:56:38] is all I'm allowed have more evidence that I don't know exactly exactly I I

[1:56:44] I'm just listening to what I've been told for this but you but you basing

[1:56:48] your decision or your your abil you're you're basing the V vacating this

[1:56:53] decisioning on Bas you're basing it based on my giving five days grace yes

[1:57:00] you gave permission and he met the demand of the city so so you're saying

[1:57:03] to me because I was I was able to give this man an opportunity to get his

[1:57:08] property off the here without having it tolded that now you're going to vacate

[1:57:13] the decision yes because I'm giving the due

[1:57:18] diligence I'm giving the public the benefit of the doubt are you kidding

[1:57:22] then I gave him the benefit of the doubt I gave him 5 days yes he did and again I

[1:57:26] said that was well within your Authority I'm not here challenging your decision

[1:57:30] I'm just saying we can't hold people never mind okay this is getting into

[1:57:34] argument which motion is on the floor thank you counc g to do have it's

[1:57:39] inappropriate yeah I think yeah I think I will make a comment

[1:57:44] um I'm trying to get back to my my thoughts you have to give me a

[1:57:47] moment um the Crux of the sit situation is um

[1:57:54] is pretty uh it's pretty awkward and uh in the sense

[1:57:59] that my my interpretation is based on what's in front of us what's on in front

[1:58:07] of us is Mr chassis in my view was in violation that being said his own

[1:58:15] testimony was that he did not expect any consequences because if uh for lack of

[1:58:21] better ter ter a permissive attitude a sense of um there's only one person down

[1:58:26] there they're not going to be hardhead on everything so therefore I didn't

[1:58:31] expect anything bad to happen and I don't if it sounds AR's

[1:58:36] point though I think well we've made this point generally over the years um

[1:58:40] if there's a situation I mean we've seen this with code enforcement going back a

[1:58:45] long time though the where you have a lack of people and you can't enforce

[1:58:50] everything so it creates this atmosphere fear of things are just going to be let

[1:58:54] go and everything's going to be fine though but then when the law enforcement

[1:58:58] official or the the city staff in this case um is given cause to enforce the

[1:59:03] rules all of a sudden we're the ones being the hard ass and it makes us look

[1:59:09] bad but that but to the Chairman's point we do have the rules for a reason

[1:59:15] and while the gentleman's uh previous Behavior

[1:59:22] while it's included in this letter and it certainly informs the the

[1:59:25] commission's decision it is not directly germine to the actual

[1:59:31] um the actual two immediate violations that being said the two immediate

[1:59:36] violations do exist um so I'm in a bit of an odd situation here though because

[1:59:43] I mean as far as I'm concerned a you know the ordinance was clearly

[1:59:47] violated um with a history but at the same time if this gentleman

[1:59:53] and God knows how many people down there think that the laws can be FL FL flouted

[1:59:59] or let uh be eased off of because the har Master is not going to be first

[2:00:06] violation you know that's it then it puts me in an odd position though

[2:00:11] because I have to enforce a rule that's not being enforced due to circumstances

[2:00:16] I'm not saying it's bad faith I'm just saying it's the

[2:00:18] circumstances so um yeah this is why we don't see these every day though because

[2:00:24] this is an odd situation and it's it's not completely cut and dry in the

[2:00:29] situation I see uh issues on both sides um and I'm just going to let that sit

[2:00:34] there for a second while we debate this and see if it helpfully informs the rest

[2:00:38] of the debate thank you councelor Burman then councelor Johnston thank you we

[2:00:42] have two different issues occurring here the peer use permits were evoked on

[2:00:46] April 10th the triggering event for their revocation was that items were not

[2:00:51] removed by March 17th the city was then going to tow and

[2:00:56] remove the items themselves right by April

[2:01:04] 14th but the removal of the items is separate from the peer use

[2:01:08] revocation the peer use revocation occurred on April 10th that has nothing

[2:01:12] to do with the harbor Master's 5 days that's a separate issue about the

[2:01:16] retrieval of personal property we learned that chapter 118 has

[2:01:21] no no provision for storage as soon as there were personal

[2:01:25] items stored in city property we became in violation of chapter

[2:01:29] 118 the Harbor Master noticed on March 14th that he had until March 17th to

[2:01:35] remov that that did not occur that's what caused the peer use violation now

[2:01:41] we want to support Camp Ellis I spoke about Camp Ellis I'm passionate about

[2:01:45] Camp Ellis I want businesses to succeed in Camp Ellis I like this business I've

[2:01:50] been a customer of this business but we have chaos if the harbor Master's

[2:01:55] Authority isn't

[2:01:58] respected we need to follow our ordinances the main defense seemed to be

[2:02:03] that the ordinances weren't followed in the past and therefore they shouldn't be

[2:02:07] now that's not a defense right that our new full-time

[2:02:13] Harbor Master is bringing professionalism right working with our

[2:02:17] city administrator to tighten up regulations increase consistency and

[2:02:21] increase enforcement should be applauded the position's only been

[2:02:26] full-time for two years now this is the second

[2:02:29] season right but I really want us to separate these issues there's a

[2:02:35] retrieval of personal property there's revocation of the peer use permits this

[2:02:40] occurred on April 10th you have the dated

[2:02:43] letter right separate right from the communications

[2:02:49] on April 9th and 14th was out of the parking lot Mr chassis

[2:02:53] you had your chance to speak yep Mr chassis please you guys I understand but

[2:02:58] you this is not your time for speak this is for Council deliberation thank

[2:03:03] you Council Burman is that everything councel Johnston thank you

[2:03:09] um yeah I mean I I certainly a would you say an awkward situation yeah it is one

[2:03:16] of those again um I can appreciate the the efforts of

[2:03:23] both Coastal Waters and the Harbor Master to to enforce the ordinances I

[2:03:28] think it's you know something I've been advocating for a long time um and and I

[2:03:33] certainly hope that will continue to this level going forward the problem I

[2:03:38] have having based on this record read through this record I certainly don't

[2:03:44] condone the actions of Mr chasy I think he definitely abused the system um how

[2:03:52] however at the same time I am left questioning is the city itself complicit

[2:03:59] in the actions of the individual when you have an admitted documented in this

[2:04:07] packet a bending of the rules that have existed for 10 years you have created

[2:04:12] the scenario where that's what we were left with the individual said I can do

[2:04:18] whatever I want I think we've seen this or at least I've seen this previously uh

[2:04:23] with with a a prior hearing

[2:04:29] um the storage issue um is essentially I guess where I go

[2:04:37] back to is in January the individuals told I guess you're allowed to put your

[2:04:43] stuff on the property we go months with it sitting there the city not

[2:04:47] necessarily the Harbor Master but the city allowed other ordinances to be

[2:04:52] violated by not Towing it by not saying this is abandoned property get it out of

[2:04:57] here the ordinance is clear that there's no overnight parking okay one could

[2:05:01] argue is that a car I look at anything that's it's it's always been that way I

[2:05:05] remember as a CH as a teenager going down there and having you know PD harass

[2:05:11] me about being in the parking lot past the hours so why did we make an

[2:05:15] exception at the city level for any property to be there if if the

[2:05:20] ordinances uh you know are are in exist you have Mr Chasey that that seems to

[2:05:27] have um again run into a pun intended

[2:05:32] uncharted waters where previously was residing at this resident operating a

[2:05:39] business property sells he's basically out the door and again abusing the the

[2:05:46] the kind nature of of the Harbor Master said hey can I put my my stuff here well

[2:05:51] in a way and and I can speak from experience having managed properties um

[2:05:55] you you can't really be lenient because people will take advantage of you so by

[2:06:01] allowing that we actually furthered his hardship because in his mind he likely

[2:06:07] said to himself well there's relief I got a place to put this instead of

[2:06:11] acting on it immediately instead it's like well it's

[2:06:15] there the state doesn't care it's always been this way from the record as I think

[2:06:19] we all can well I'll speak for myself I can't tell you where this equipment was

[2:06:25] was it the city's property was it a deed right away I can't the record doesn't

[2:06:31] show me that it shows me images that are not clear to me um I I think it's maybe

[2:06:37] it's clear to other people but I didn't see it as matter of factly um City's

[2:06:43] property or what not um you know I think that when we sit here as we did this

[2:06:50] evening and we talk about wanting a trolley service or economic development

[2:06:55] of Camp Ellis I've sat here for a long time well I've been here my whole life

[2:07:00] so and I've heard it most my life about you know the Vitality of of Camp Ellis

[2:07:05] and all the reasons we should continue to invest millions of dollars into Camp

[2:07:09] pellis um and of course one of that is it's a small community it's a great

[2:07:13] asset the recreation uh component of it property values to name a few um what I

[2:07:21] see certainly in of recent is there's less

[2:07:25] and less of what used to attract people and and my personal opinion it's it's

[2:07:30] more become a playground of the rich out of Staters and not what that community

[2:07:35] that I was told was all about Community we heard it in the testimony that well

[2:07:40] it's always been a tight-knit community and we kind of always did I'm not

[2:07:43] condoning it I mean not to the opposite I'll tell you from a personal experience

[2:07:48] my first year on Council um

[2:07:52] maybe the first few weeks I dealt with an individual that was a constituent of

[2:07:56] of my award that had issues down there and and described Coastal Waters or or

[2:08:04] Camp Al I'll say not the commission as the wild west that's that's and I again

[2:08:11] I don't have any personal experience I you know outside of going to campal I've

[2:08:16] never been a peer user I've never well I think maybe I've taken the charted boat

[2:08:21] out there but that's it um but it it was very uh argumentive I'll say and and and

[2:08:28] fortunately you know it seems like we're working towards cleaning that up um and

[2:08:34] we've obviously made um you know some some advancements with the ordinance but

[2:08:39] at the end of the day here it seems that this individual was just kind of let

[2:08:45] along to continue to violate and then all of a sudden we we go zero to 100

[2:08:50] real quick and it's like you're gone I I I mean that you're you're taking the

[2:08:56] livelihood from the individual and in the end are we benefiting campellis or

[2:09:01] should we be attracting businesses instead of rejecting them I I mean

[2:09:06] that's I don't even know if that's really in my purview at this point but

[2:09:09] that's kind of you know my thought here is is how do we say in one turn oh let's

[2:09:15] promote campellis let's spend all these millions of dollars and then at the same

[2:09:19] time reject a long standing individual that's oper operated out of there uh for

[2:09:25] many years um and again I don't see a pattern that I guess for me

[2:09:35] establishes you know an excessive or Progressive steps it's just you're gone

[2:09:43] after allowing the property to go there in the first place did he violate it yes

[2:09:49] did he meet several Gates but I would argue that once it was

[2:09:54] on our property just like any other tency laws you're

[2:09:59] now part of that you you need to at that point remove it go through that legal

[2:10:07] process why didn't we take those legal other legal recourses we we had those

[2:10:12] opportunities instead we just after months go to revocation of a permit

[2:10:18] which is forever is what I understand correctly there's no opportunity for

[2:10:23] this individual to to make amends and say hey I screwed up I'll be a better

[2:10:27] person it's you're out of here and I guess I have an issue with that

[2:10:33] thank you thank you anyone else any final

[2:10:37] comments councelor hatch thank you mayor mcville I just want to weigh in and um

[2:10:43] and explain my vote when it's cast um I'm I'm going to um

[2:10:52] defer to council burman's logic and I think his logic is very

[2:10:57] sound um that uh there were deadlines that were given there were deadlines

[2:11:02] that weren't met um I don't see the city

[2:11:07] administrators willingness to uh extend that a little bit further

[2:11:13] as as a reason to uh to vacate so uh to me the uh the evidence

[2:11:22] is logical and supportive of the uh decision that the coastal Waters

[2:11:29] commission um made so I am going to be voting uh no uh against this motion to

[2:11:39] vacate thank you anyone else councilor Burman I agree with

[2:11:45] almost everything everyone has said I just also want to add one final issue uh

[2:11:50] we have a a City staff member and a commission uh that have great expertise

[2:11:55] in this area and have worked really hard and so I think another factor is uh I

[2:12:01] think it sends a message whether or not we support the work that they've done or

[2:12:05] not great thank you okay so the motion on the floor right now is to vacate the

[2:12:12] decision of the coastal Waters roll call vote councelor Archer I councelor Parks

[2:12:18] yes councelor gun no councelor Burman no councelor hatch

[2:12:25] no councelor hwit yes and councelor Johnston

[2:12:31] yes motion passes

[2:12:38] 43 okay that now takes us to item 10 and there is no new business this evening

[2:12:43] item 11 an administrative update from City

[2:12:49] administrator thank you your honor uh the first item that I want to just bring

[2:12:53] your attention to is the update for the compliance of assistant planner uh she's

[2:13:00] uh been hard at work in these past few weeks uh she's reviewed all the contract

[2:13:05] Zone agreements and created first draft of comprehensive database met and

[2:13:10] coordinated with various City staff and departments across the organization

[2:13:14] assigned monitoring files for review and organization uh created permit uh fact

[2:13:20] sheets for ongoing subdivision project currently under construction started

[2:13:24] monitoring conditions of approval across multiple projects under construction

[2:13:28] more than 200 plus conditions researched monitored and started tracking uh

[2:13:34] started to work on a foundational database for enhanced tracking and

[2:13:38] monitoring of the critical follow-up items for compliance reported on a few

[2:13:43] follow-up concerns and coordinated with different departments on ongoing items

[2:13:48] and she really has uh laid out a template that we're going to be able

[2:13:53] to follow to start more of enforcement on compliance and uh certainly uh we

[2:13:59] look forward to uh to uh moving forward as the council has asked us to on those

[2:14:05] compliance items um so uh the next one I'd like to just bring your attention to

[2:14:11] is a new video from Smart growth America I don't know if you've watched it or

[2:14:15] others but it's on our website you do have it here you can click on to it on

[2:14:21] the uh on my uh comments uh if you haven't seen it I think it came out very

[2:14:27] very good uh excellent and professional um the other thing is um we have an RFP

[2:14:34] going out on historic walking tour signs uh city of Sako is requesting proposals

[2:14:40] from interested vendors for historic walking tour signs uh response to this

[2:14:45] request for proposal should include the cost of design manufacturer and delivery

[2:14:50] of 22 signs uh if uh your team is qualified and experienced in providing

[2:14:56] the described Services city of Saka would appreciate receiving your

[2:14:59] submission as indicated in the RFP the deadline for responding to the RFP has

[2:15:04] been extended to 11: a.m. eastern standard time on July 12th

[2:15:11] 2024 and you can visit our website to get more information uh upcoming um

[2:15:17] items for the Monday July 22nd we're going to be going forward on bringing

[2:15:23] for uh the uh discussion relative to a beach management plan also a contract

[2:15:29] Workshop uh zoning Workshop which uh our new compliance manager will excuse me

[2:15:34] our compliance assistant planner will be at and go into more detail on the things

[2:15:39] that she has found and then we will also have a tiff 101 workshop for the

[2:15:45] councilors the new counselors so that they can better understand why uh the uh

[2:15:50] the purposes of our 10 Tiff districts that we have so uh those are some of the

[2:15:55] items that I have uh and be more than happy to answer any questions uh city

[2:16:00] council may have thank you very much any questions or comments for the city

[2:16:06] administrator okay not seeing any uh that moves us now to item 12 and that is

[2:16:11] Council discussion and comment any discussion or

[2:16:16] comments councelor gun then Johnston thank you Madame mayor just two points I

[2:16:22] wanted to make first um um this is actually be related to the city

[2:16:26] administrator's report though I do want to thank uh the members of the historic

[2:16:29] preservation commission for the last year and a half they have been

[2:16:33] researching uh points of historic interest to be included on the city's

[2:16:38] walking tour and it's not just the uh the ones we may have learned about uh

[2:16:43] back in grade school with Dorcas Nutter and folks like that though this is kind

[2:16:46] of a deep dive into a lot of the history that's been kind of missing from the

[2:16:51] general narrative I know the city historian pet Peter scess has also

[2:16:55] contributed to this as well as well as the folks down at the library so to see

[2:16:59] this getting towards um the sort of like the Finish Line um is tremendous and I

[2:17:06] definitely want to make a point of thanking assistant uh planner Shannon

[2:17:09] Chisum though who uh went out um got the grants really got uh HPC and everybody

[2:17:17] uh focused on this kind of drove the bus and this is her baby as it is everybody

[2:17:22] else's though I want to give credit where credit is due though she's

[2:17:24] Testament to the city and I enjoy working with her as HPC liaison um on

[2:17:30] another topic um odd that it is here we are a couple days um removed from uh

[2:17:36] thank you from the 4th of July and it seems that uh many folks in

[2:17:43] the city of Saka seem to have forgotten that we have an ordinance that does not

[2:17:47] allow for the use of fireworks in the city of Sako and we had some exceptions

[2:17:51] a couple years ago and I believe the count and the council revoke those

[2:17:54] exceptions for New Year and Fourth of July um for various reasons and I

[2:17:59] haven't gone back and checked the debate though but at the end of the day um if

[2:18:04] you own a dog uh Fourth of July is not a very pleasant day for our pups

[2:18:10] and it is again it's you are not naring on your neighbors if they are deciding

[2:18:15] to set off fireworks all throughout the night um I don't own a dog so I don't

[2:18:20] particularly mind that my neighborhood sounds like the Battle of Gettysburg for

[2:18:23] three days but if you have a dog they're going through hell right now and I would

[2:18:28] simply say to any Resident in the city that if any of your neighbors are just

[2:18:33] you know whistling and not giving a damn that there is an ordinance you are well

[2:18:38] within your right and you certainly pay your taxes to call the police and have

[2:18:43] someone come over because um as we recently saw this evening you know laws

[2:18:48] and ordinances exist for a reason and I think we all can agree that uh you know

[2:18:54] taking care of our dogs and taking care of anybody who's you know disturbed by

[2:18:57] fireworks randomly going off on Tuesday night in the middle of the night it's a

[2:19:01] good use of the police's time so I would encourage anyone in the city that if you

[2:19:05] have an issue with that uh don't keep it to yourself don't kudin about it though

[2:19:11] actually you know call somebody who's paid to take care of this though be

[2:19:14] until in and out if the city wants to have a discussion about PR use of

[2:19:19] fireworks under certain circumstances we can have that discussion but until that

[2:19:22] time comes law is the law and I encourage all residents to take

[2:19:26] advantage of that thank you councelor

[2:19:30] Johnson well I would I would second that uh from councelor gun for starters

[2:19:37] uh obviously you know as as Fourth of July January rolls around people just I

[2:19:44] guess think it's acceptable but I've always had a a challenge with that

[2:19:50] activity taking place particularly in the downtown because you've got units or

[2:19:54] or buildings that are so close to each other and I've literally watched people

[2:19:59] do fireworks in parking lots right over houses my my own included um so I would

[2:20:04] just uh you know again second that that there is an ordinance and they're not

[2:20:09] allowed um regardless of whether you're from

[2:20:14] here or not um sorry I've been asked to sign this and I'm not capable of doing

[2:20:20] two things at once uh back to my my point here um month ago

[2:20:28] and I and I was like making people uncomfortable so I'll bring up a topic

[2:20:31] that's generally makes people uncomfortable um you know a month ago

[2:20:35] over a month ago I guess it was now uh I had discussed the what would be taking

[2:20:42] place in our sister city when it came to the end of encampments uh today's July

[2:20:48] 8th today is their deadline uh I have certainly seen myself this morning the

[2:20:56] ramifications of the action um that has occurred as far as disbanding those

[2:21:04] encampments uh obviously since the last time we met the Supreme Court has also

[2:21:10] ruled on that case that has decided in favor of municipalities and in states

[2:21:15] that um there is their right to to disallow Campa

[2:21:21] in public space um just as a reminder I would say that and this is based on

[2:21:27] benford's memo that 30% of their unhoused population is very likely

[2:21:34] headed across the river to the city of Sako um now did they name city of Sako

[2:21:39] no but we all know where they were alluding to um so I guess you know I've

[2:21:46] raised concerns previously the council um those

[2:21:51] concerns stand I will tell you I have seen an increase and any of you are more

[2:21:57] than welcome to go ask the police department but I certainly have seen an

[2:22:00] increase of crime in the downtown to include a beating and carjacking on

[2:22:05] Saturday night uh right by my house um and I'm not saying that everybody that's

[2:22:11] unhoused is a criminal so let's not constr my words I'm just saying that as

[2:22:16] that memo indicates 30% that are coming from bord are the 30% that are not

[2:22:22] willing to take housing that are not willing to be drug-free

[2:22:27] and have criminal history so again to council i' I've said my piece on it I

[2:22:34] would say to council what are we going to do because we do have an obligation

[2:22:40] to protect our residents to ensure not just the residents but again as as bord

[2:22:45] has indicated we do have some level of

[2:22:48] obligation to ensure that the young housed have housing right like and and I

[2:22:54] think that's bords uh efforts that they they've moved forward with to get people

[2:22:59] in into housing obviously that is a huge issue one

[2:23:05] which not one of us will solve um but I so I I guess what I'm saying to you all

[2:23:12] is that you know I'm prepared the next meeting to come with an emergency

[2:23:16] ordinance to at least adopt the same ordinance or similar ordinance that bit

[2:23:20] has when it comes to our Parks or public lands I mean we've spent hundreds of

[2:23:25] thousands if not more uh recently on the revitalization of our Parks Sak Main

[2:23:33] Street just recently got a uh a grant from T-Mobile to revitalize the

[2:23:39] Riverfront Park um as we all know the at least three of our downtown parks are

[2:23:48] adjacent to our schools um I I I know and again I can speak from

[2:23:55] personal experience in the past with a prior principal at Fairfield where they

[2:24:00] had situations where people were in again a public park it's a public space

[2:24:05] it's well known but it creates challenges for for for staff uh for

[2:24:10] teachers for children for for all of it so I guess again I'm just encouraging

[2:24:17] and like I said I will bring forth an emergency or ordinance but I think long

[2:24:22] term we need to be thinking about again following suit with city of bford and

[2:24:29] obviously as I've said before it is a regional approach but I'm sitting here a

[2:24:33] month later I've said these comments publicly I say it to everybody out there

[2:24:36] and I've yet to hear from any of my counterparts in the city of bford that

[2:24:41] want to take this Challenge on I'm here my numbers on the the internet I'm I'm

[2:24:46] more than willing to have those conversations I'm not afraid of it

[2:24:51] um so instead of pointing fingers because I still see the finger pointing

[2:24:55] that is existing it's on the internet you can see it um oh bitter is doing

[2:24:59] more than Sako whatever reality is it's all of our

[2:25:03] problem and we all need to do something about it um and so I'm just advocating

[2:25:08] for that thank you so yep City administrator has a reply fact to that

[2:25:12] sure um I think all of your points are very valid um the mayor and I took the

[2:25:18] opportunity about a week ago ago maybe 10 days ago to meet with the mayor of

[2:25:24] bford and the city manager and we talked about these issues and it is an issue

[2:25:30] that both communities are going to have to deal with uh this was before The

[2:25:34] Supreme Court decision came out but even with the Supreme Court decision I think

[2:25:38] we we have an obligation to try to work closely with our uh City next door to uh

[2:25:46] try to deal with this issue in in both a humane way and a consistent way so uh I

[2:25:52] I welcome if there's other ordinances that the city council wants to bring

[2:25:56] forward that's fine but I think it's important to recognize that bord put

[2:26:01] together a program if you read the memorandum of the city manager where I

[2:26:06] believe uh about $800,000 came from Community Development

[2:26:10] block grant money to help uh fund the uh the uh the shelter which is great um so

[2:26:19] I just have to remind people that uh there isn't that kind of funding here in

[2:26:25] in in Sako at this point but we certainly can work to try to have those

[2:26:30] options available to anybody that is unhoused in in in in in Sako but I will

[2:26:37] be reviewing tomorrow I have reviewed with the police chief I mean we've sent

[2:26:41] our social worker over to bitterford on a couple occasions to do their uh uh

[2:26:47] their homeless huddle uh we are that's how we try trying to get uh some kind of

[2:26:53] uh integration in there so that we're not just as you said pointing fingers I

[2:26:58] think what we're trying to do and and the mayor is encouraging of that is that

[2:27:02] uh we we at the request of the mayor of uh bfer did send uh Rachel over there um

[2:27:10] and uh she also was over there today uh when they were starting to visit the

[2:27:16] camps and starting to move people out so we haven't not

[2:27:20] done anything we have been trying to slowly uh address the issue and try to

[2:27:25] uh check out how we might um enforce some of the uh the laws we already have

[2:27:32] on the books uh I've talked to uh the recreation director Parks and Recreation

[2:27:38] director the city uh excuse me the the chief of police uh we are going to be

[2:27:42] watching our parks there is ordinance already that you can't camp in the Parks

[2:27:46] at night you can't be in the Parks at night uh you

[2:27:51] yeah doesn't prevent it okay I didn't I'm sorry I didn't somebody say

[2:27:56] something he was no I was I was confirming I know they all they all

[2:28:00] close close at dust but it's rather difficult to enforce um I I see a

[2:28:06] weakness and that's why bford moved forward with what they did when it came

[2:28:11] to disallowing any encampments um and again it's just going to have the

[2:28:17] residual effect they're just moving across the river they're going to take

[2:28:21] up residency here in in our parks and um we're going to have a problem that bord

[2:28:29] had which is they allowed it to occur for a better part of two years and then

[2:28:34] decided that they had to act on it and I would like to be proactive and not

[2:28:38] reactionary is all I'm saying no absolutely I agree with you 100% maybe

[2:28:42] uh we can work together you can we can you can contact me tomorrow or whatever

[2:28:47] I can contact you and we can look at their ordinance and uh maybe place that

[2:28:52] on the the next agenda yep and I think waiting now that

[2:28:56] we have the official Supreme Court ruling is a big piece of that knowing

[2:29:01] municipalities now have an idea of which direction they can go what they can and

[2:29:04] can't do specifically so I think but um yes it has been a topic of

[2:29:09] discussion and will continue to be okay anyone

[2:29:16] else okay now that takes us to Executive session is there oh I'm sorry excuse me

[2:29:22] I'm over here excuse me um yeah all due respect Dan Dan yeah please sit down I'm

[2:29:29] I'm done please sit down please sit down actually um I I respect what you people

[2:29:35] do I respect you the mayor uh you have my resignation I've been doing this for

[2:29:41] 19 years and this this was strike three each time I come in front of this

[2:29:47] Council we get picked apart I kept this thing short and sweet because it cost

[2:29:52] 250 bucks to make that printing you just left you just left the biggest piece of

[2:29:57] gabage back in Camp Bells we've had in a long time so you have my resignation

[2:30:03] I'll return everything that belongs to the town in my time and uh good luck and

[2:30:09] I feel pretty

[2:30:15] good okay is there a motion to exent our executive session

[2:30:20] Council hatch thank you mayor mccf be it ordered that the city council enter into

[2:30:25] executive session pursuant to Mr essay title one chapter 13 sub chapter 1

[2:30:31] section 4056 D collective bargaining agreements Municipal D contract

[2:30:39] negotiations school and C acquisition of property School motion has been made by

[2:30:46] councelor hatch is there a second second second by councel

[2:30:53] Burman roll call vote councelor Archer I councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes

[2:30:59] councelor Burman yes councelor hatch yes uh councelor

[2:31:05] Whit and councelor Johnston yes motion to enter executive session passes 70 at

[2:31:13] 854 uh executive session will be downstairs in the conference

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[3:57:57] you good evening and welcome back is there a motion to exit executive

[3:58:03] session so moved motion made by councelor hatch is

[3:58:07] there a second second second by counselor

[3:58:12] huitt roll call vote councelor Archer hi councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes

[3:58:19] councelor Burman yes councelor hatch yes councelor hu yes and Council Johnson yes

[3:58:24] motion to exit executive session passes 70 at

[3:58:28] 10:21 is there a report or motion from executive session Madame mayor councelor

[3:58:33] gun I have a motion the city council hereby

[3:58:37] authorizes the city administrator to execute an agreement with the water

[3:58:41] resource recovery division team local 340 motion has been made by councelor

[3:58:48] gun is there a second second second by counselor

[3:58:52] hatch any additional discussion roll call vote councelor

[3:58:56] Archer hi councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes councelor Burman yes councelor

[3:59:01] hatch yes councelor hwit yes and councelor Johnston yes motion passes

[3:59:07] 70 okay that takes us to item 15 and that is adjournment is there a motion to

[3:59:11] adjourn so moved motion made by councelor hatch is there a second second

[3:59:16] second by councelor Burman roll call vote councelor Archer

[3:59:20] all right councelor Parks yes councelor gun yes councelor Burman yes councelor

[3:59:25] hatch yes councelor huitt yes and councel Johnston yes motion to adjourn

[3:59:30] at 10:22 passes 70 thank you everyone and

[3:59:34] have a great

[3:59:43] evening

[4:00:12] e e

Saco City Council Meeting - July 8, 2024

Agenda

Transcript