[0:11] Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's after six. So why don't we get started? And we have Ryan from the Public Safety Academy. That's going to lead us in the pledge.

[0:28] Please face the flag. Put your right hand over your heart. Ready? Begin. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[0:46] Thank you. Please be seated.

[0:56] We have, uh, three, uh, excused absences from the committee, I'm advised. And, um.

[1:08] Any questions about that? S1:

[1:17] You all want to talk about the agenda, huh? Okay. That's fine.

[1:21] Oh, and Chair Prince, there was a public comment that was submitted online. I had that printed out and placed next to your agendas for you.

[1:29] Oh, okay.

[1:31] We'll take a look at that.

[1:35] That's from Rocio Aguayo. Okay.

[1:42] Why don't we take comments from committee members? We'll start with James.

[1:48] Uh, no comments from me at this time.

[1:53] Well, good evening.

[1:57] Committee members. Public service announcement that San Bernardino Municipal Water Department will be holding their first meeting on October 3rd at 1331 Southeast Street. That's the new building, so the public is invited to attend. 9:30 a.m..

[2:25] All right. Good evening. Good evening to everyone here in attendance and everyone watching online.

[2:34] Good evening and welcome everybody to the charter meeting. I hope you all are engaged and we're ready to move forward with some items on the agenda. Thank you.

[2:44] Thank you, Leticia, and thank you for bringing Ryan. That was great. Uh, my name is Tim Prince, and, um, I don't have too much to say, but, um, I did want to remind people that the state is already mailing out the information pamphlets for the election, and the city is working with the county to do the same. And so we need everyone to pay attention and get ready to vote on November 3rd, fourth, fifth, third. James always knows.

[3:19] James the third. Right. Second. Tuesday or first? Thursday is.

[3:22] First. Tuesday is the third. So, um, your ballots will be mailed out sometime the first week of October. And, uh, it's time to start reading all those propositions. And don't forget about the city, uh, elections as well, because sometimes we get tired by the time we get through all those propositions and get to the end of the ballot. But those, uh, decisions are important. Okay. Mr.

[3:53] City Manager, do we have anything? S3:

[3:55] Madam City Attorney. Okay.

[3:58] Nothing on my end.

[4:00] We have a consent calendar that consists of draft minutes. Do we have any public comments on that? Probably not.

[4:16] Do we have any corrections or changes to the minutes? S1:

[4:39] Yes. So we have a couple holidays coming up. The holidays technically do not coincide with our meeting dates because our meeting dates are on a Wednesday and the holidays for staff are on a Thursday and Friday. However, since it is the Wednesday before Thanksgiving and then the Wednesday before Christmas Eve. I'm not sure what the committee members availability will be for those days, so I wanted to try and get ahead of that. Additionally, the city Manager's office would like for me to attend a conference on the fourth Wednesday of October. So if there was another date that we could maybe meet as a special meeting, that would be something that we can work through right now.

[5:21] So our normal.

[5:26] Do we want to.

[5:30] Change that between now and the end of the year?

[5:34] Well, it sounds like we will have to change October. Right? Um, if you're going to be at the conference.

[5:40] Yeah. So it's a conference that would be on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of that week. And then generally in terms of like conflicts for using this room. We couldn't hold meetings either the first or third Wednesday because those are council meetings. So staff is occupied with that meeting. And then on the second weeks of the month, Mondays and Tuesdays generally are being used. This room is being used for other committees and commissions. And then on the third week of the month, Mondays and Thursdays, in addition to the council meeting on Wednesday, those are also dates that would have a conflict for using this room.

[6:25] But I mean, can you clarify as to like, since you're going to be out on a regular schedule meeting in October, is there someone maybe from staff, other staff that could cover for you or should we reschedule for October?

[6:35] My other colleague in my office would also be attending the conference.

[6:39] Gotcha.

[6:40] So would the best day be the second one second. Wednesday, October the 14th.

[6:49] That was being utilized.

[6:51] That would work for me.

[6:54] Okay.

[6:55] Just for information, I will be out of town from the 9th to the 26th of October.

[7:06] Was the first one.

[7:10] The first Wednesday of the month, the council meetings. However, if you want to do a a Thursday, I don't know if another day of the week is permissible for your schedules, but Thursdays would work.

[7:26] Do you mind reminding us what the availability is for City Attorney Maldonado? Um, in in October.

[7:36] I give us one second.

[8:04] So City Attorney Maldonado, his availability was generally the second or the fourth Thursdays of the month.

[8:17] In October, October the 9th through the 20th.

[8:22] Whatever that Monday is, two weeks later, I'll be back in town on the 26th.

[8:29] How about Thursday, October 8th?

[8:42] Does that work for everybody?

[8:44] Uh oh.

[8:58] You're trying to.

[8:58] Get the majority here.

[8:59] So.

[9:01] We appreciate you.

[9:06] Did you say there's a problem with Tuesdays? How about Tuesday, the 20th?

[9:13] Still going to be out of town? Yes.

[9:23] Tuesday the 20th in October would be fine on my end.

[9:28] So as of right now, the two days available will be Wednesday the 14th or Tuesday the 20th.

[9:35] Thursday the 15th.

[9:38] I believe you said that.

[9:41] Oh, there's the eighth.

[9:49] I think if we meet earlier in the month, it'll help us, uh, space out our meeting. Sorry. I think if we meet, um, earlier in October, it'll help us space out, um, the next three meetings in November and December. Um, so that's all I'd say. Um, I'm, I'm flexible though on the dates stated.

[10:14] I'll be driving down to San Diego on the eighth and flying out early on the ninth.

[10:23] I'm trying. Ricky.

[10:23] I'm trying.

[10:43] To conclude our absent members.

[10:45] I can follow up with an email that will just be see everyone as a like an email poll for availability, and then I can confirm for the rest of the committee.

[10:54] For the.

[10:55] Next.

[10:58] Okay.

[11:01] For November and December. Could we just move it up a week, stay with our Wednesday and do November 18th Council meeting? Oh that's right. Never mind.

[11:16] Sometimes the council usually goes dark in the holiday season.

[11:22] Can you clarify on that? S3:

[11:36] Okay. Sounds like that's better handled on the email.

[11:42] And so we'll go on to um item three. City charter public outreach plan.

[12:05] So I drafted together a PowerPoint presentation for the committee to review and make any additional changes or modifications. If you want I can go through each slide. I do have the LCD projector working so I can show it on the screen. And that way people at home who watch it on YouTube can also see what each slide would look like. And then if you want to do public comments after that, or I don't, if you want to take public comments ahead of time, um, I can go either way.

[12:31] Yeah. I think we, um, I think we said that it might be good to have the staff presentation before the public comment. So we get meaningful input from the public. Um, am I to understand that, uh, that these slides are kind of in addition to what we've already been working on, um, towards the beginning.

[12:53] So I took everything that the committee put down for the information they would like. And then in the process of doing the PowerPoint, I did add some more information so that it would actually fill up the slide and hopefully provide a, a better informational overview of maybe the differences between the powers of the mayor and the council and some of the other slides. And so if there's anything else you would like to change or add, I can certainly facilitate this, but this is currently like, I guess you'd say the, the first draft of what the final product would look like.

[13:26] So you included what we discussed before.

[13:28] Yes.

[13:29] Okay.

[13:33] Why don't we go ahead and do that?

[13:36] So the very first slide was the slide. I kind of combined two slides onto one here. And this is what would be, you know, who is the charter review committee. And then what your role in your purview is. So on the left hand side of the slide, I have basically a little paragraph describing who the charter review committee is, how you're appointed, that you are a representative of every single ward. I believe that was something that was also mentioned how I think a committee member, Briggs, you wanted to make sure that the public knew that you actually fully represented all of the wards. You each came from the same ward that you are, you know, being appointed for for your role. I use what the resolution states, which is that, you know, you are here to do complete a periodic review of the charter to identify potential amendments that enhance clarity, efficiency, and the principles of the council manager form of government. That is straight from your establishing resolution. A couple meetings ago when you discussed what you hope to accomplish. The three main things that were mentioned was you want a more efficient government, a more effective government, and a more accountable government. So that I put those as your three statements there for what you hope to accomplish. I added information for the public's sake on who all the committee members are for each ward, and I also thought it would be important to actually list when you actually meet. That way, you can, you know, remind the the public of our meetings.

[15:03] Would you prefer comments at the end or slide by slide?

[15:06] It doesn't. We can go slide by slide. That might be easier.

[15:10] Might be just two thoughts that come to mind for me is maybe if we can include, um, the email for how folks can engage with us on that slide. Uh, and then can maybe clarification regarding who we are. Can you clarify because it says that, um, it states that each charter committee member has to come from the ward that they were appointed from. But I know that there's some. uh, more liberal, um, uh, interpretations for other commissions regarding the appointment process for commissions.

[15:42] Can you clarify that for us? S3:

[16:12] If that's the case, I would definitely like to make sure that that's highlighted in there because I think it you know, it goes to the cohesiveness of the committee and the representation of the committee.

[16:23] It's surprising, too, because you'd think the Planning Commission and other commissions would be. Mr. Johnson didn't.

[16:35] It used to be more restrictive in that regard? S5:

[16:38] But other commissions.

[16:40] But most all the other ones, practically all of them. You have to be from the board. I think the planning was like the only one at that point in time.

[16:48] I wonder what the prior charter committee's reasoning was and eliminating that requirement. Interesting.

[16:55] Wasn't there?

[16:58] It wasn't necessarily the charter committee that that changed it. It was the policy of the the mayor and council. And I think it was largely due to the a lot of the commissions weren't meeting quorum. So they were trying to do whatever they could to make sure that there was action being done.

[17:16] That is correct. The charter only lists three committees as being established in the charter. You have the library board. I believe it's the personnel Commission and then as well as the library board. Yeah. Water board. Library board. Personnel commission.

[17:40] Were there any other comments on this first slide?

[17:43] No. I agree with Mr. Alberts comments though.

[17:46] Okay.

[17:54] The second side establishes just some background information, some background history about what a charter city is and part of that city charter basics or city charter 101 information that you provide to the residents. So it basically just plainly explains what a city charter is. It's the city's constitution. It's the highest law of the city that is adopted directly by its residents. And then it provides a comparison between what a charter city is and a general law city.

[18:22] And if you would like to keep this slide, we can keep it if you want to make any changes or if you want to remove it, we can certainly do that as well.

[18:32] I think it's good background.

[18:35] Also, since we have what about I think 480 something cities in there. It'd be nice to have how many charter and how many are general law.

[18:47] I can do that.

[18:59] And then um, maybe, um, I don't know if maybe it would go with another slide, but it would be nice to show that diagram of the, um, you know how the city is set up, right. It's the public, the, you know, mayor and council and the city manager like the Venn diagram, the org chart. Um, I think it might just be a helpful reminder as to like how, how everything kind of works currently and how the charter is involved in that.

[19:28] I can do that for our city. Yes.

[19:38] The next slide provides a comparison for just, again, basic educational information about the difference between a city charter and a municipal code. I understand that's something that a lot of people may confuse. And so I included a slide here just to kind of provide what to highlight what those differences are. You know, a city charter is going to be more structure. And then the municipal code is more of the day to day laws and regulations.

[20:07] That's helpful for people to understand. I think that you don't put everything in the charter, that we have another codified system, although it's a kind of a mishmash. Sometimes our. Our.

[20:24] Current council was going through the ordinances and trying to update them. I don't know where we stand in that process to make sure they're coordinated with the new charter.

[20:37] I think that's been completed, hasn't it? S3:

[20:58] And did the committee have any recommended changes or requested changes or revisions to this slide?

[21:06] I don't think so. I don't think so.

[21:13] Okay. The next slide provides an overview of the form and structure of the government comparing a council manager form of government versus a strong mayor form of government. It states that the. That San Bernardino uses the Council manager form of government instead of the strong mayor form of government, and then provides a four key highlights between the two. So in one, the Council is the policy setting legislative body, and then in the other, the mayor is the one who is essentially running the government, you know, all the day to day administrative work.

[22:11] And then I believe previously there was a a debate with the committee on where exactly they would want some of these slides. So if you want to reorder the slides, that's something I can also easily do as well.

[22:27] I really like this.

[22:29] Thank you.

[22:29] Very helpful.

[22:32] And is the third. Third point on the Council manager. Is that consistent with our current structure in the city of San Bernardino?

[22:47] So for the city of San Bernardino, the mayor is purely ceremonial. However, the mayor, because the mayor and the city does have tie breaking vote power, veto power. There is still some form of legislative power. So you saw that a couple council meetings previously where the mayor was able to cast tie breaking votes over matters of, I believe, a lease agreement renewal. So there are certain legislative powers that the mayor is able to exercise in the city of San Bernardino. If there's like a tie.

[23:21] I would just like to see more, more better wording on that point in line with what our current charter has regarding the mayor's power on those two issues.

[23:32] And then the question then would be, do you want this slide to be specific to the city of San Bernardino that provides that comparison between our council manager form of government versus a strong mayor form of government, or just a more general comparison that would be applicable to council manager governments in general. So right now it's kind of worded. So it's more broadly applicable to, you know, like, let's say city of Yucaipa, city of Redlands, so on and so forth, where depending on the city. And that's why it says, depending on the city, you know, the mayor could be just an elected member of the council who is appointed by council to serve as mayor, like you would see in the city of Yucaipa or the city of Ontario, I believe, versus an at large elected mayor such as here or Fontana or Riverside, and depending on their on their charters or if they're a general law city, that mayor may have legislative power, may have some legislative power, but purely ceremonial or no legislative power.

[24:31] So I'm certainly open to like certainly feedback, but I would like to see like at least one slide dedicated to how our charter is currently currently operates related to these key points related to a council manager form of government. Um, and then maybe a separate slide that kind of goes into a more broad perspective of additional things to think about.

[24:54] So all the subsequent slides would be essentially how our structure is. So if you want to know, like how the mayor performs or how the mayor, the role the mayor is structured in our city, well, you will have a slide specifically about how our charter establishes the powers of the mayor versus the council.

[25:14] Two pages Hence. Okay.

[25:16] So we can maybe put a note on this one to go back if we don't.

[25:24] Is that clarification in the future slide? S4:

[25:28] If you look two pages ahead.

[25:29] It's a couple pages next Council and mayor who does what.

[25:32] Oh, okay.

[25:33] Gotcha.

[25:33] So why don't we hold that for now and proceed to the timeline?

[25:38] Okay. For the timeline at the previous meeting, there was a discussion about providing a slide about the history of San Bernardino. There was a discussion about whether it should just be focused on the charter versus other aspects of the city.

[25:55] Trying to capsulate the entire history of the city, whether it's beach culture, its population, its events, significant or minor, that would be a lot to try to include into a PowerPoint. And because this is a charter review committee PowerPoint, I kept it specific to the charter, just highlighting key points on when the charter was first adopted. When it was reaffirmed by the voters. And then when it started to change how it essentially was written. You know why that happened and when that happened.

[26:31] Don't interrupt you if you're not.

[26:32] I don't I don't have anything else on that one.

[26:34] Um, did somebody have something?

[26:36] No. I said the only thing that I had a question about was the August 1st, 2022 under 2012.

[26:41] 2012.

[26:44] Good. Good catch.

[26:48] Thank you.

[26:50] Under 2004. Um, if I'm reading this, uh, not knowing what I know, um, I would think that that might mean that either the same charter was adopted in 2004, or that a new charter was adopted in its place. Um, I think we should clarify that. Um. There were amendments made in connection with that restatement adoption. Not that we need to get too much into the weeds, but I remember there were some adjustments to the governing structure that were made. So maybe just a sentence that.

[27:33] I can add some details underneath it.

[27:35] Yeah, it gives a broad because I do think that.

[27:41] Increase the ambiguity in the hybrid nature of our charter. It really didn't help. It hurt. And then of course, the next entry is the bankruptcy.

[27:56] I also think it might be worthwhile since we did add the the timeline for the 2015 part about when the charter committee was formed, and given that in our resolution that there is a mandate that we have that our committee meets should meet periodically. It's important to add the timeline as to when the Charter Committee was reactivated in this. In this structure as well after. After 2016, at least.

[28:33] And so for that data after 2016, would you want that to be specific to this committee's reactivation, the prior committee's reactivation.

[28:41] The whole. Yeah, the whole history, the postmodern history of 2016. Yeah. Because I think it's important just to give future mayor and council leaderships like an idea as to what how to what's the precedent for a periodic review of the of the committee?

[28:59] Yeah, I think it would be helpful to know that this committee was, um, sidelined by the city manager before any adjustments or the recommendations were made. It was just done without warning, and the committee never even met to discuss that or give feedback to that. It was just the lights were out. And then maybe, uh, tell us how long that was, because I'm remembering it was close to two years.

[29:29] So we're playing catch up.

[29:32] I will say that in terms of the layout of the slide, in order for it to be readable for the public, I really only have room to add one more point on the timeline, because otherwise it will be very difficult to cram all that information in because I have three on top. I can make it. There's three on, you know, three points of information that are explained on the bottom.

[29:58] I don't think you necessarily have to put that on the timeline, maybe just a sentence or two at the bottom.

[30:02] Okay.

[30:03] You think?

[30:05] Yeah, that'd be fine.

[30:13] What's that.

[30:13] Do? Asterisk.

[30:19] Right. Footnote.

[30:23] Okay. Council and mayor.

[30:30] Who does what? S3:

[31:01] I think the oh, I'm sorry. Never mind. Never mind.

[31:06] And just note, I did try to put as much information here without making it too small of text. It's already fairly small, as I'm pretty sure people in the audience are already realizing when they're trying to read the text on the LCD screen. So I would just caution if you if you want to add something, you might also have to remove something. Otherwise it will be difficult to read.

[31:38] I would think we need to add something under the mayor that indicates that there's no minimum staffing.

[31:51] Requirement set in the charter.

[31:58] And the. I guess you probably don't have room to add that the. The current council reduced the staff to one full time person.

[32:08] I don't know if that would. I don't know if that would go good on this side. This slide is just saying who does what.

[32:15] Yeah, I think probably just the fact that there's no minimum because we can take it from there.

[32:23] So the charter is silent on staffing.

[32:30] So I could put maybe a footnote on the bottom that the charter does not.

[32:36] Specify staffing for either the council office or the mayor office or something to that effect, or the charter is silent on the staffing for the mayor and council.

[32:47] I kind of feel that might be a moot point with the incoming people coming in, that they're probably going to give the mayor some staffing, you know, because the people who denied it are going to be gone. that's just my personal opinion.

[33:05] I hear you, but could happen again in the future. The charter is probably not planned to be a 100 year document, but our old one certainly was.

[33:16] But I think.

[33:17] The courts stepped in when the council tried to cut the city attorney's staff and said that you have to have a minimum staff so the city attorney can function. But that I think the point here is that there is no minimum in any law for the mayor. And so if the council decides to cut it to zero, they probably can.

[33:42] I'm wondering if maybe it would be more appropriate if that was under um, the is it the city manager that oversees the budget operations? Because that would be a budgetary item. And I'm wondering if maybe, you know, we can add an educational aspect of, um, you know, that point being there, right? About who, you know, where, how does the budget and staffing of mayor and council go together?

[34:16] I could put it under the budget. However, again, the budget is only proposed by the city manager. It is set by the council. One side I that we did not include in here would be an overview of the departments. And then as part of that slide, you can have the Department or the offices of the Council and the office of the mayor and have a a point about staffing there.

[34:45] But there is no slide in here about departments and staffing.

[34:50] Well, on the next slide, regarding the city manager, you do have a point that says prepares and submits the annual budget and capital improvement program. Maybe, again, we can just add a footnote. Um, that, that under this budget, uh, staffing for mayor and council would be fall under this, um, process.

[35:13] Um, the financial management.

[35:14] Side, um.

[35:16] The city manager is where I was looking at regarding the preparation and submission of the annual budget and capital improvement program.

[35:28] But maybe you, uh, maybe staff can educate us on how financial management and the city manager's budget proposed budget work together.

[35:39] So most cities try to have a balanced budget. Um, there are times when a city will spend more than it will receive in revenues. If there were special projects or investments that the city is trying to make in infrastructure. And there are other times where the city is trying to have basically a savings to add to a discretionary fund for future spending for the Mayor and City Council to decide. So it it really depends upon the City manager. It depends also on the appetite of the Council and what their directives are. So it's a balance. And sometimes that balance does not necessarily result in a balanced budget, but generally that is the goal. So if the city so the city manager, nine times out of ten is going to try to propose a balanced budget. However, council may direct the city manager to look into finding a way to provide additional staffing for either a certain department or for the mayor or for the council office. And then when that happens, the city manager will probably have to come back with a new revised budget. This goes through the whole budget workshop process, and they come back with, well, here's how we were able to accommodate it, that request, and then here's how we're able to fund it.

[36:57] So another three pages ahead. We have a financial management slide.

[37:07] That should be.

[37:08] Getting back to the staffing portion of it.

[37:13] Even with the reduction of the mayor's staff, council staff was also reduced as well. You know, unfortunately, you know, Jorge's position was eliminated. You know, so they never filled that. So there's like only two people I think, who's working the whole council now. So.

[37:38] Staffing that's something that if it's going to be something where it has to be under the city manager since that's budgetary. Because if the council decides to put staffing, the city manager is going to figure out how to fund it. Right. You know, so it's that's the decision.

[38:03] One one final comment from me on the council versus mayor slide. Uh, I would like to see, um, on point two that the water board be listed under the mayor's, um, slide. Um, just because she, the mayor does have sole authority on, on the water board and I think it should be at least specified if it is in a charter.

[38:29] I think water board in library, if you're going to mention boards, just mention that the three boards are in the charter.

[38:36] Uh, correct. But I'm just maybe wondering because the water board is solely appointed by the mayor.

[38:46] Um, is the is the library board different? S8:

[38:57] The appointment.

[39:04] The mayor does not have the sole authority to appoint members of the water board. It's of the mayor and entire council by a vote of the mayor and the entire council. Same thing for the library board and the Personnel Commission.

[39:21] The old charter that had the mayor appointing everybody.

[39:29] Okay. Does that give a. I'm not sure. We really had consensus on everything, but can you use your discretion to sift through those comments and do the best you can?

[39:39] I'll probably have.

[39:39] To.

[39:40] Watch the YouTube video back to get a better idea.

[39:46] But my understanding is that there needs to. There's a desire to have something in here, either in this slide or maybe another slide regarding the staffing requirements and how that's not specified for the mayor in the charter.

[39:59] And the.

[40:00] Council.

[40:00] And the council.

[40:07] So I don't know if you want to go to the next slide, the city manager running daily operations, or if you want to go one beyond that. But this slide is just basically what the charter provides for the powers and the duties of the city manager.

[40:25] Any questions about that?

[40:35] Can you maybe clarify the differences between Chief Executive officer and maybe a chief administrative officer, and just maybe how they compare and contrast?

[40:47] I think it's just a semantic difference for the most part. However, one thing I have noticed in just my brief review of other cities, whether it be strong mayor or council manager, council manager form of government, they are generally considered the Chief Executive Officer, the CEO and then in a strong marriage, the Chief administrator, because under the city of San Bernardino's prior charter, it was not the city manager, it was the city administrator. And some of the other strong mayor form of governments are similar in that type of terminology.

[41:21] On the second to the last point, under key responsibilities,

[41:28] I think that's a very important point. Um which is also discussed in the model city charter, um material.

[41:39] Um, and I think you're trying to express that there, but I would just amplify it a little bit when you say makes recommendations. Um, it's the city manager's role in a council manager government to, uh, not just take directions from the council, but to give recommendations and advise them based on his or her knowledge and experience. So, um, maybe instead of just recommendations, say policy and, um, another couple of adjectives that describe the whole gamut of what the city manager does. And I hope that would make it clear that this is not just the day to day administration, but also working with the council at the council meetings and in giving a staff report and recommendations on almost everything the council does.

[42:35] I could probably add some subbullets that provide some expanded points. Um, one thing to keep in mind, though is when giving a PowerPoint presentation, you don't have to just read word for word from the PowerPoint itself. Um, most of the time this is just like a highlight of a talking point that you're going to expand on during a presentation.

[42:59] Just bullet.

[42:59] Points.

[43:00] Yeah.

[43:04] Are you okay with that though. Adding a couple adjectives there.

[43:07] Yes, I can do that.

[43:08] Great. Anything else on that? City attorney.

[43:19] So most of this is essentially straight out of the city charter. I did add a bullet that just kind of explains what that what those duties would entail. So what does it mean to be the chief legal advisor to the city? So that second bullet point that you see, you know, assist staff and drafting contracts, agreements, resolutions and ordinances, that's not explicitly stated in the charter, but that's what the job entails. So I just added that as a point, just to provide some the public some context about what what their job actually entails. It's certainly not exhaustive in terms of everything they do, but it gives a good snapshot.

[43:59] On the third bullet point, I know you took that right from the charter, so it's technically very accurate. However, it creates an impression that the city attorney is the one going to court for every time the city is in court. And that certainly is maybe not the opposite of what's true, but certainly not descriptive. Um, maybe we could clarify that. Um.

[44:26] Or maybe just take out the word all.

[44:31] I can do that. Or I can also add like, maybe like a subbullet, like, you know, note and then put an explanation that, you know, the city sometimes uses outside counsel to represent itself in lawsuits in other forms of litigation.

[44:45] Anything else on that?

[44:46] I was going to say I really like the language on the independence of the city attorney position in the blue box.

[45:06] Okay. And how is the how is the city attorney, um, selected? Is it, uh, city manager recommended.

[45:18] It's by the mayor and city council. Um, so I believe and this is before my time at the city, they did an RFP process for a city attorney, or at least I know that was one of the recommendations at some point in the last few years is to open up an RFP to select a new city attorney. So it's ultimately up to the council to decide the process they want to use to find the city attorney, because the city attorney is appointed by the mayor and city Council. So if the mayor and City Council desire to do a competitive recruitment process through an RFP, that would be one way. If they all have, you know, a desire to hire, you know, maybe a former city attorney or someone who might be related to a former city attorney who's also an attorney or whatever the process is, it's up to them. Or if they want to do like a headhunter, a professional recruitment firm, to try and find a city attorney if they don't want to do like an entire city attorney firm, but rather an individual, that would be another way. But it's ultimately up to the mayor and city council.

[46:21] And the city manager would provide input and recommendations on that when the when the item comes up on the agenda.

[46:32] So my understanding, and I believe most of the stuff is discussed in closed session and I'm not in closed session, so I'm not actually privy to all those details. I don't know to what extent that the city manager would be be asked for their professional input, because, uh, the city attorney is independent of the city manager.

[46:56] Just out of curiosity, um, regarding staffing of the city attorney's office, is that choice as of currently, as I understand it, that's choice is outsourced to Beebe and Kay for their law firm.

[47:15] Can the city also, um, staff positions in-house as well? S3:

[47:32] Yes. But now that, um, City Attorney Maldonado is now the official city attorney.

[47:40] Is he now an in-house employee or is he still a contracted employee? S3:

[47:50] Got it. Thank you.

[47:51] He's a partner at BB and K.

[47:53] Yes.

[47:54] Yeah.

[47:56] Okay. Anything else on that?

[48:06] Next slide is about the city clerk. I did add a bullet point to say to state that the city clerk's office manages the Public Records Act requests, because I believe that was one of the discussion points from the previous meeting, was to add that, as you know, an explanation of what the job entails, even though it might not be explicitly stated in the charter, all PRA requests initially go through the city clerk's office, and then they are basically distributed to the rest of the city departments Based off what the request is. So if you have a PRA request for a a building permit, the city clerk forwards that request to building and safety or public works if it's a city project.

[48:53] I think it's interesting to note that the city attorney and the city clerk used to be elected under the old charter, but I don't know if we mentioned that elsewhere.

[49:04] That's not mentioned because it's not a part of this, um, current charter. If that's something you want to just highlight when you talk to neighborhood associations or any town hall using this PowerPoint as kind of like just a little, you know, fun fact about how the city used to operate. There's certainly nothing stopping you from doing that.

[49:25] Just for clarification, it says on the first point about giving notice to council meetings, um, under the city manager's role, then do you have do you have responsibilities for giving notice for commission meetings? Um, or is it is it silent on the city clerk on that regarding to commissions and notice.

[49:50] So we use so like, for example, for this, uh, meeting, I'm the one who publishes the agenda for this meeting. So, but I use the agenda management system that the city clerk's office procured to handle all the meetings. So it does go through their software system. And I believe they still have to post something at one of their boards, one of their like essentially the message boards or noticing boards. But for like the boards commission and committee meetings, each department that oversees that meeting, they are the ones who are responsible for posting that agenda. So the Planning Commission, that agenda is being posted by the Planning Division for the measure S, that's the finance department for Parks and Rec, parks and Rec charter review. City manager's office.

[50:40] When we were in Old City Hall, just before you came into the building, they posted all the agendas right there.

[50:51] Is there still somewhere where they post them publicly like that? S3:

[51:04] That.

[51:07] They used to keep posting them at Old City Hall, but I don't know if they do anymore.

[51:12] I'm not sure. I'd have to check. I'd have to walk around and see.

[51:16] And then I think it's also at the library on Sixth Street.

[51:21] And I believe the ones at the library are being posted because the meetings are being held there.

[51:26] So it's just the council.

[51:28] So I believe so, but I'm not 100% sure.

[51:37] Financial management.

[51:41] So this slide is just basically a straightforward slide that tries to just graphically show the steps of the city's budget process essentially. So you have as part of the city charter, it outlines, you know, 60 days before the city manager prepares the budget. Then they will submit it to the council for council's review, which is where you have those budget workshops and the budget adoption public hearing. And then throughout the year, it's the city manager's job to implement the budget. And then finally, you have the audit requirements. And the audit requirements is actually part of state law as well. So every city has to go through a audit. And that's also outlined in the city charter.

[52:29] Okay.

[52:29] I do think it would be worthwhile just to add where the community can engage in this process. Um, certainly open to which, um, you know, which aspect of this part, but I think would be worthwhile to add that component to this.

[52:47] Yeah, I can add that to it would probably go for point two because that is where you have that public hearing process for the budget adoption. That's where it goes before council. It has to be a public hearing, and that's where the community can provide their input.

[53:02] Yeah. But what I was maybe going towards is like, sometimes the city holds community engagement hearings to get, um, you know, their priorities regarding that, that are, that are, um, separated from city council, um, public hearings.

[53:28] So that's something that would just basically happen throughout the year.

[53:36] Yeah, that's public feedback sessions and stuff like that.

[53:41] But typically.

[53:43] You can't put it in.

[53:44] Here.

[53:45] That's just something that, you know, it's not a regular thing.

[53:49] Yeah. So the charter. So this is basically what the charter specifies or stipulates is how I left it in terms of where the budgeting priorities come from for like community projects, like let's say you want to continue a partnership with Lutheran Social Services for their navigation center or for a Love Your Block grant or things like that. That just happens naturally throughout the year. But in terms of what the charter requires, it's that 60 days before the city manager starts to prepare the budget, then you have the adoption, the public hearing and adoption at the council, and then you implement it and then you have an audit on it.

[54:32] Okay. Elections.

[54:41] So for this slide, I kept it just to remind the people about, you know, you have one mayor that's elected at large. You have seven council members elected by ward. What are the requirements to be elected? And when the elections are held, and I do want to make note because I believe this is what the committee wanted, was that the primary and general elections are held in consolidation with the state primary election and state general election every two years. And I also noted that the terms are staggered between the wards as established by ordinance. So the charter specifically states that look at the municipal code to see which wards are being elected on which cycle. And I also note, because it's also in the charter that the ward boundaries will eventually be redrawn based off the census. Every so many years, every ten years.

[55:41] Maybe we should put in here since it pertains to elections, the state law requirement that changes to the charter be at one of these elections as well. The primary and general.

[55:56] I can probably fit a note in somewhere. I'll see if I can fit a note in.

[56:02] Not that we have any control over that, but I think it's useful for people to know that.

[56:15] Um, I'm not saying it relates to this presentation, but I think it would be really interesting at a future one of our meeting, our committee member meetings, to do some kind of like voter analysis related to voter turnout differences by Ward in relation to what election year they're on. Like, you know, midterm, midterm elections, you see lower turnout versus presidential election years. I think it would just be interesting to kind of compare the lower turnout wards that we're seeing and maybe looking at how we can, you know, improve upon that.

[56:57] If that's something the committee would like me to look into, I would run it by the city manager to see if he would like me to add that to my list of priorities.

[57:05] Do you see that as a charter issue?

[57:09] In my opinion, I think there's a couple whether or not a charter issue, because, you know, the charter says that the, uh, the terms are staggered based upon ordinance. So if there was a desire to change on which seats would be staggered, I believe that would go towards the municipal code, not the charter. And I think an analysis like that, you would also have to try to control for other variables that might also impact turnout based off ward. So different socioeconomic status groups will have a different voter turnout. And so if you're trying to, if you're trying to analyze the impact that which cycle they're on, and if you look only at that, that may not provide a very reliable analysis. Because what if you have one ward with a lower socio economic group, different demographic, different, you know, language, that's the primary language versus a more wealthy ward that just so happens to be on a different cycle. And so if you can't control for those variables, you might get an analysis that seems to really tilt in one direction, but that's because there's all these other variables that are impacting that turnout. And I don't know how you're going to be able to fully control for that. So that would make the analysis a little bit more tricky and a little bit harder to make it come across as a, a reliable analysis.

[58:36] Ideally, you would want to get like for like Ward. So you'd have to try to find two wards that have similar demographics, similar poverty rates or per capita income rates, similar demographics. And see if they're on two different election cycles, then that would be probably a better analysis point of comparison. But that would require also more work.

[59:02] Yeah, I just I just want to say that I would, I would definitely support looking at our, our wards that are that we're seeing lower turnout and seeing how we can shift those to the higher turnout cycles and look at where we're already seeing higher turnout and shift those to the midterms, midterm cycles.

[59:22] But in terms for like a potential charter amendment, how would that go?

[59:26] Well, that's what I'm going to that's what I'm asking you.

[59:31] Do you see that as a charter issue or a municipal ordinance issue? S3:

[59:43] Thank you.

[59:49] Okay.

[59:58] Anything else? S3:

[1:00:24] Just want to say thank you for that. That's very well put together.

[1:00:26] Very nice.

[1:00:31] And then we would add to this, um, kind of introductory presentation, a, uh, a few slides on what we're studying and solicit feedback for those points.

[1:00:48] You certainly can. Um, once this committee, I guess, comes to a consensus on what those additional potential amendments are going to be that they would want to put on here. We can certainly work in that direction.

[1:01:04] Well, I think we've done that. We've we've identified points that we're studying, but we don't have to finalize those now.

[1:01:12] It was a.

[1:01:13] Great.

[1:01:14] Great effort. Thank you.

[1:01:19] Okay. Anything else on that?

[1:01:24] Just curious curiosity. Do you think we should vote to adopt this presentation formally or.

[1:01:30] Well, there's a couple things I need to add and revise based off the feedback from the committee. And then I would bring a a final draft for your review and approval. And then from there, if you want to adopt it at that time or if you want to make any additional changes.

[1:01:45] Thank you.

[1:01:46] Right. And then we need to talk some more about logistics. So maybe at the next meeting, we could do a little update on where we are with that. Although probably the holidays is not the optimal time to roll out.

[1:02:02] What I can do is I can get a calendar of all the neighborhood association meetings and distribute that to the committee.

[1:02:09] Yeah, that would be a good start. We can start thinking about it for next year.

[1:02:14] Well, you had a question. Um. Excuse me. At our last meeting, I thought I had asked regarding the general plan.

[1:02:24] Is that something we can add to this? S3:

[1:03:22] Thank you.

[1:03:31] We did have a public comment on item three from Jim Smith.

[1:03:47] Yes. I wanted to compliment the staff on an excellent presentation tonight. You are really doing your homework and I'm so glad that this is on channel three. I watched these meetings religiously and I'm glad they're being taped. And a lot of the public, They're not here tonight, but they are seeing it on channel three. And I want to compliment you for getting that on television. It's extremely important. I'm a member of the arts and I'm a commissioner of the Arts and Historical Preservation Commission. On the mayor's appointee. Just two appointees or religiously come to these meetings that compliment your support for our chairman. And I think the committee worked very well. I think what's so important is the public is more aware of what we're doing, and that's a wonderful way to do it on television. And I think hopefully you will be able to publicize the dates of your new meetings to have more people come out and support you. It's it's difficult to do that. I realize people say, well, that's 2028 or whatever, you know, but but it's it's no, we need to, we need to let the public know and build momentum to make this change in our city. And I want to thank you very much for the work you're doing and for the committee and your discussion today, all four of you that were here religiously. I appreciate that very much. Thank you.

[1:05:34] Thank you, Mr. Smith.

[1:05:37] And, uh, there's nothing further.

[1:05:53] Should we move on to item four? S3:

[1:06:57] As part of the staff report, the City Attorney's Office has included an additional memo providing additional analysis and findings regarding three of those charter amendments, and those have been included in the agenda packet that's published online. It's also available for the public here at the in the boardroom, if they would like to read it.

[1:07:25] I would just note that my formulation of the agenda item was not as it stated in item four. It was not to request authorization, but rather to continue to discuss these items. Um, I do agree with, uh, one paragraph of the city attorney's memo, uh, September 18th memo on the first page where he says in strong mayor form of government, the city council serves as the city's primary legislative body, and the mayor serves as the chief executive, endowed with the authority to hire and fire employees and to oversee day to day municipal operations and carry out the city Council's legislative agenda. That is the heart as. As Mr. Maldonado notes, of the strong mayor form of government in a council manager form of government, the City Council and the mayor together serve as the city's primary legislative body and appoint a professional city manager with the qualifications and expertise to hire and fire employees, oversee day to day municipal operations and carry out the legislative bodies legislative agenda. There is no proposed change to that sentence whatsoever, and I specifically and emphatically requested the city attorney months ago to provide statutory or case law authority that somehow says that what we have contemplated in our proposed changes are defined as strong mayor form of government changes. And in looking over the now three different opinions of the City Attorney's office, there is no case law and there is no statute, which in any way states that somehow this paragraph that I just read is incorrect, or that our changes fall in the strong mayor side of the equation. I think if you look at it like a organizational chart, the.

[1:09:48] The city Council is at the top, and then you have the city manager, and then you have the staff and there's lines connecting. The city council and mayor are at the top, and that's still going to be at the top. That's the strong council manager form of government. The council and the mayor direct the city manager. The city manager directs the staff. Of course, under our old charter and under strong mayor form of government, the mayor directs the staff, hires fires involved in daily operations and administration. So I don't think we need to make any decision on this tonight, but I, I don't think that it would be appropriate, especially at this time, to go to the City Council with some kind of request for authorization when we've given them no background. We haven't caught them up on what we've been studying. Um, and three of the council members are.

[1:10:50] On the ballot and two of them we know the seats are going to change. So now is not the time and a cold request like that, that misstates that we're somehow overstepping their bounds. I don't support that at all. So I think we should just continue this item on the agenda, not as a request for council authorization, but the same as we're doing in item five that we're discussing and reviewing. And, um, we can cross that bridge later if we want to ask the, the new council for clarification, but I don't think we're asking for anything new or different than our current authority, because we're talking about how to be more effective as a council manager form of government.

[1:11:41] Is it possible, given, you know, the politics of the current day, that maybe we can consider these after the election? Um, given that a lot a, b, c on for and A and B in particular on five, um are really going to meet resistance with majority of our current council. And what I am really worried about is if we move forward on give them a recommendation in support of those, um, not only is it going to fall on deaf ears, but it could shut our committee down, which I think would be tragic. So my, my suggestion would just be that we delay any kind of talks about this until after the election in the new year.

[1:12:33] Chair.

[1:12:33] Yes.

[1:12:34] Uh, I'm in agreement with what you stated. We need to talk about it. We don't have to do no action, but we need to talk about it. Uh, whether it's a possibility and discuss it, you know, in detail whether, you know, it's something that the public might be willing to look at and vote on. We need to just I don't think we need to sit on it for a couple of months. You know, we need to, you know, hash it out right here, whether it's something that's palatable to the public.

[1:13:18] Yeah, I agree with that. I don't I don't think we need to take it off our agenda. We just need to rephrase it. So we're not requesting authorization. We're just discussing and reviewing potential charter amendments.

[1:13:37] So can I have a motion to table item four and include those items in next month's agenda as discussion items.

[1:13:50] So if I just may add.

[1:13:54] The way this was Agendized was at the direction of the city manager, so I brought what the request was to how to agendize it, and the direction was to agendize it in this way. So if it's going to be the same request again, I will go back to the City manager, repeat what the request is that the committee wants this to be agendized as a discussion item, not a request for council authorization. But if I am directed again to put it back onto the agenda in a similar fashion, I get my direction from the city manager.

[1:14:25] Understood. We don't want to put you in the middle, but I think the city manager will take direction from the committee. Um, we certainly appreciate his recommendations and the city attorney's recommendations, but, um, we we have control of our agenda.

[1:14:43] I would recommend to do A motion doesn't have to be the staff recommendation, but to motion specifically what what it is that you want staff to bring back, then take a formal vote. I'll have that in the recorded minutes for the city manager and to get further direction from him on how to agendize it. But it will be a formal motion, a formal vote and a formal action from this committee.

[1:15:11] Or if possible, because I know he made he made multiple citations and multiple references in the letter. I mean, if you could just include a couple other ones. I know Mr. Prince was looking for some case law, but if you could include a couple extra references to.

[1:15:27] Make his point.

[1:15:30] Um, I'll add that I worked with Albert on this quite intensively. And in terms of case law, there's one case that's cited at the very end. And that's really the only case law that discusses what we're talking about Council manager versus versus strong mayor form of government in terms of actual case law. There just isn't case law out there that is about this specific topic. So that's why it's not included. That's why there's other secondary sources and other sources included. So that there was something of sources provided some sort of statute, some sort of something.

[1:16:08] I appreciate that.

[1:16:17] Also, I wanted to bring to everyone's attention the Model City Charter. Um is a nationwide publication. It's in its ninth edition, and it was discussed extensively by the drafters of the current charter. Um, it's a, it's a very well known document that's used by League of California cities and throughout the nation. And, uh, it has an introduction by a gentleman, a scholar named Sabara, who also wrote a whole book on a related topic. And I wanted to read from from that at page seven. The council manager mayor is not quote is not a, quote, weak mayor, nor is the mayor an insignificant figurehead. As the authors of the introduction to the Eighth Model City Charter explained, the mayor and the Council manager form is the chief legislator. Boy, that sounds familiar. That's right out of our proposal.

[1:17:27] The leader of the policy making team, the mayor, can be a, quote, strong mayor who not having to overcome the offsetting power of the Council or not being bogged down with the details of managing. The city staff can focus on facilitative leadership. The mayor is effective by helping the council and staff perform better. And that just I mean, that seems to me, is exactly what we're trying to do with our proposed changes. We are strengthening, improving, making more efficient the council manager form of government by changing, making some modest changes to the way the council operates. We're not doing anything with the day to day management of the city manager.

[1:18:22] So, um, you know, the city, the city attorney is, um, is the city's legal advisor, but the city attorney is not a judge. The city attorney does not make rulings or decisions. The city attorney gives advice. And I think we need to take that advice very seriously. Consider it, respect it. But that doesn't mean that it controls our decisions. It means that we consider it. Um, but this is not really a legal question. This is a policy question. And there's no legal authority on point as has been.

[1:19:01] Alluded to. So it's really our determination. We're not trying to go to a different form of government. We're not trying to go to a strong mayor. We are living in the full spirit of the city manager, council, model, city charter, form of government.

[1:19:37] So what what was the recommended language? Um, that would, uh, keep these items on the agenda for consideration without making any decisions as to making a request or.

[1:19:54] So what I would recommend is to have a motion to bring back these three items as discussion items and not as items to request council authorization for. I can, if the committee approves that action, I will bring that to the city manager and get further direction from him on how that will be on the agenda.

[1:20:18] Would it help the City Manager if we put some kind of line in there that is going to be for discussion only? It's going to be for no, we're not going to take no action on it. It's going to be just for discussion between our for our committee.

[1:20:32] I couldn't speak for the city manager on that matter. Um, but if that's something that the committee believes might be helpful.

[1:20:39] At least we could discuss it.

[1:20:44] Yeah, I think that's the way we worded item five as well. Discussion and review.

[1:20:57] Can I have that motion.

[1:20:59] Request for council authorization.

[1:21:01] We're basically just dropping the first three words.

[1:21:03] Right?

[1:21:06] Yeah. As long as long as we're not going to take no action on it. Discussion is good because I know like the number five, it says discuss and take action if appropriate.

[1:21:15] Um oh that's a good point. Yeah.

[1:21:17] So as long as that word action is not in there, I think we'll be safe in the legal in the legal zone. Um, but to discuss it, I think it's fair.

[1:21:32] To say that if that's a motion.

[1:21:35] Do I have a second? S7:

[1:21:36] Any further discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Unanimous.

[1:21:49] Anything else on item four?

[1:21:55] Item five is the funding. We've already talked a little bit about that and the agenda access.

[1:22:06] Where the mayor places items directly on the agenda, which is current practice, but it would be enshrined in the charter if I understand that correctly.

[1:22:15] That is also my understanding.

[1:22:17] And term limits.

[1:22:23] We have anything new on those items.

[1:22:28] Those are not items that were brought by staff. So I believe those are items that were conceptualized by the committee.

[1:22:38] Didn't, didn't weren't we looking into something on the term limits on what other cities are doing?

[1:22:45] I'd have to review. That would be before I was involved in the charter review committee. Um, I don't recall if Corey Hodges, my predecessor for this committee, as the staff liaison, if he provided a staff report on that. But I can certainly check.

[1:23:02] Can I have a discussion on subsection A, the mayor's office staffing funding? Mhm. And I'm in favor. I do believe the mayor's office and city council office should have some kind of funding. But going through some of the City Council meetings, going back to the June 3rd City Council meeting, during the annual vacancy report, there's two bargaining units that spoke on how short staffed they were and how they have not been able to fill these positions. Dispatchers, I think, were at 24, 24%. Management was at almost 20%, and across the city about almost 13% of vacant spots. So again, although I do agree that the mayor's office should have some kind of funding, and the city counsel's office should have some kind of funding, some vacancies, some positions, I think we have to focus on providing for the people instead of the elected officials. We have vacant spots in our city. I mean, I would like to see our code enforcement fully staffed, because that's going to be able to help out the city and generate more, more funds. So before I think we start focusing on providing staff for our elected officials, I think we have to focus on on the vacant spots that we have within our city.

[1:24:17] I'd like to comment on that. Um, I worked in civil service and we did the application testing process. Dispatchers, I can tell you we would get 100 applications. 50 of them would qualify. We go to testing. Half of that shows up out of that half. And so now we're down to 25 out of the 25. By the time we do background checks, all of that kind of stuff. We have maybe four that make it. Those four go to the department. They have to do the chief center. You're familiar with the process. We lose applicants at every step of the way. And then when they get on board, if they make it all the way, they don't realize. And especially in dispatch, it's a very stressful, high turnover position. And that's the only one I'm referring to right now. It's hard to get a good dispatcher and have somebody stay as far as the other positions. You have the same thing. Um, not as drastic, but a lot of people don't make the backgrounds. Um, at the end they decide they don't want to do that. They got a better offer working somewhere else. So it's hard to, to fill these positions and. when you talk about the mayor and the council, currently we have two people working for seven elected officials. All of those seven people want something different. Rikki don't laugh. You were one.

[1:25:43] Um, you have seven people with different ideas of what their staff should be doing. And you have two staff people doing it. That's impossible. And the mayor's office. She covers the entire city. And she has one employee. I think that those need to be looked at so they can prioritize and distribute work evenly in both departments.

[1:26:07] Again, I'm not opposed to funding. Funding. Funding. I definitely think they're important positions. But if we're if our budget is a negative and we have all these vacant positions, I think we should focus on those before we start creating new positions and adding to our budget.

[1:26:26] At one time, the city council. Um, Rick, I think you guys had five people working in there.

[1:26:34] No. You had we had, uh, three.

[1:26:41] Sylvia.

[1:26:45] Joan.

[1:26:46] Yeah, it's always just been three.

[1:26:48] Was it just three?

[1:26:49] Just three at the max and then maybe an intern every now and then.

[1:26:53] Okay. And the mayor's office used to have at least 4 or 5 people in their office.

[1:26:59] And that's something we could possibly look into and look into, you know, working with San Bernardino Valley College or working with Cal State San Bernardino and creating interim positions, that's not going to cost the city any kind of funding.

[1:27:14] I think as a general matter, it's really bad policy to put specifics in the charter on on staffing that I think the concern here. is that we've seen in recent years where the council is at odds with the mayor and kind of, um, I don't want to say, uh, retaliatory or, uh, viciously, but it really is. It's for political reasons. Cuts the mayor's staff below what's necessary to function. And I think that's what's going on right now. And we're all hearing the voters frustrations in terms of, um, you know, we elect a mayor. How come she's not doing what what we want? And it's a I think a lot of the reason is because she doesn't have the staff support and there's just no willingness on the council's part to change that, even though, you know, the it seems like they get along most of the time now, or at least a little better, they get along a little better. Um, I don't think there's been any serious effort to look at what are the mayor's functions, what staff is necessary to perform those functions? How many calls does she get from the public? What kind of outreach can she do to help people feel heard in the city? It's just it's, it's not optimal. And so I think what we need to do is just have some language that assures a floor without being specific, but, um, kind of like what they tried to do to the city attorney at that time, even though I had concerns about the city attorney to, um, you really need a certain level of staff to function and, and they shouldn't go below that for political reasons.

[1:29:11] Did I say that? Okay.

[1:29:16] As a staff member, I am completely staying out of this.

[1:29:19] Right. Well, I'm sure you see that um in, in City Hall that um.

[1:29:29] When a, when a department goes below a certain threshold, it makes things difficult.

[1:29:36] Mr. chair, I do agree fully with your initial assessment though, that, um, I don't think any kind of explicit language about requirements of funding should be in the charter, because it certainly can be misused, um, by the mayor and the Council, um at any given time, although I completely agree that there are many departments that are underfunded and under-resourced. Um, I think that's primarily a matter of the budget at the end of the day, because what I'd certainly be worried about is going down the rabbit hole of the, of the old charter. When we started getting into that dialog and putting us down the road towards bankruptcy. Um, so, um, although again, I would like to see our, uh, mayor and council be fully staffed and maybe the city manager's office can. Can you can you educate me at least on. On what role the City Manager's office has in place for constituent services at all.

[1:30:36] So the city like in terms of like responding to complaints or inquiries from the public. So in that regard, the city uses its CRM system. And I believe that our current CRM system was implemented by a former city manager, Charles McNeely, as a way of addressing complaints or concerns from the community. And so that's routed through, I believe, it's the general government. So there is a separate it's the call center, and they route all those CRM. So that's the primary point of contact for constituent services. And then depending on, you know, some CRM do get elevated to the city manager's office and then staff within the city manager's office, whether it's myself or one of my colleagues, we will have to dig further into what the issue is and potential resolutions. Work with other departments to address those issues, whether it be, let's say, you know, a homeless encampment or a storm drain that has issues or, you know, a downed tree that's blocking infrastructure, we would then reach out to the departments to make sure that they're taking care of it. So that's generally the process.

[1:31:45] Can you just illuminate me, though, on the communication between the city manager's office and the council members and the and the mayor in terms of that feedback that we're getting through the CRMs in terms of how they can mitigate things through the council manager system.

[1:32:02] So right now, the city Manager's office provides weekly updates to the mayor and City Council regarding a wide variety of things, whether it's projects, upcoming agreements, or agenda items, whether it be complaints that certain council members have forwarded to the City manager for the city manager's attention, and what the status of those complaints are. So the city manager's office does go back and forth with the mayor and the City Council to address their concerns, their the concerns that they forward from their constituents that go to the city manager and the city manager delegates it to other individuals, either in our office or to the other departments.

[1:32:50] Through the chair. And when we make these decisions about doing funding in the charter, the challenge is we're not looking down the road five, ten years, 15 years in the impact that it might have in the future.

[1:33:14] One of the issues that in our old charter that we had, and it dealt with salaries with section 186, where salaries was mandated, and it was on auto pilot, and it impacted the budget in a negative way because it was public safety. Uh.

[1:33:39] They controlled most of the city's budget. And so the, the city manager, city administrator trying to deal about divvy out the rest of the monies and made it a challenge. So by putting something in here about a funding staff funding that will right now, it might seem like a good idea, but ten years down the road, it would be a challenge. Might seem like a challenge for the city to look at. Uh, So funding as far as that should be based on budgetary, uh, what's available in the budget at that time.

[1:34:24] I understand budgeting issues, but could we, could, could we come up with some kind of stipulation, like per every 100 citizens, they have an additional staff member in the office or something to that effect.

[1:34:41] I think where if we get into the weeds on that, what happens if best practices do change? Like and they say, okay, once upon a time it was one for every 100. Now someone looked at it five years down the road and said, no, we got to. It should be one out of every 50. The issue with that is once it's in the charter, then you have to. Yeah.

[1:35:03] What I had in mind was not a specific formula, but something that uses the word Reasonable that can be interpreted based on the other circumstances facing the City Council and the city manager at the time. Um, so that um it would, it would make it more difficult for a council to be punitive, um, in trying to tie the hands of the mayor, but still allow the council flexibility to say we have this specific need, like the, like the example that Mr. Johnson gave with um former charter amendment 186. The problem with that, it was, it was so specific, it said, here's the list of cities and we have to pay the average in the state and whether you like it or not. And that that was really a big factor in the bankruptcy. This would allow the council to say, well, reasonable when we're fat and happy is different from reasonable when we're, um, cutting all departments 15% and um, when our revenues are shrinking. So it would allow that flexibility, I think. But it would make it more difficult to say, well, I'm mad at the mayor. Um, we have five votes on the council. So nuts to you, mayor. We're going to take all your staff away and tie your hands. Because that makes it hard for the citizens to get Ahold of their representative. Communicate with the representative. It makes it hard for the mayor to be effective in all the different, um, regional and other functions of the mayor's office.

[1:36:46] I think the challenge with that argument is the council can say it's reasonable for us to have one staff person per each one of us. You know, so it's just that reasonable. Depends on who's making that argument.

[1:37:02] Yeah. I don't think there's a perfect solution here. I think but I kind of agree with you that the flexibility is the more important consideration that you don't want to say you have you have a minimum of four staff people, because what happens if we are on the verge of bankruptcy again? So I think all we can do is express our intent and, and try to word it the best we can so that whatever happens in the future, it expresses our values as a city that we we value our mayor. We, we don't want a underfunded mayor's office for political reasons. We want the mayor to be able to function.

[1:37:48] If if we're going to if we're going to go through with, you know, just using generic language. Um, and we want to discuss this further. I would like to see us expand this from exclusively the mayor's position to the mayor, council, city departments and using that framework as just generic language. Um, but I, I don't want to necessarily just keep discussing just solely the mayor's office. Um, I think it should be included in terms of a larger package of, uh, issues.

[1:38:25] But I think that defeats the purpose because, um, we're addressing the specific problem that the mayor has either 0 or 1 vote. And, um, the council, uh, it's not the same for the council. The council votes in a majority and the mayor can't do much about that. So the, for the council's staff, it's decided by the council that we don't need to protect the council in the charter when it's the Council making the decision that the idea here is that the mayor's only one vote. We're. Our charter, um, doesn't even allow the mayor to vote on most issues.

[1:39:10] So how how do we assure that that mayor's office is funded? S4:

[1:39:50] I have a question in other departments, org charts, you have a director, assistant director, administrative services manager, administrative services, you have different classifications underneath it.

[1:40:08] So those positions are identified in the organizational chart, are they not? S3:

[1:40:38] So you already have positions clearly identified in each department as to how many positions are managers, mid managers, their duties, their tasks and things like that. Correct.

[1:40:49] Yes. And as part of the budget process, you'll have basically called the position control document that will show all the FTEs, all the full time equivalents, all the. Basically, how many analysts are in community development housing? How many managers are in community development and housing, how many deputy directors and who, who is the director, and so on.

[1:41:11] So in those departments, if they're short staffed, those positions are still identified in the org chart, whether they're filled or not filled.

[1:41:19] Is that correct? S3:

[1:42:10] So for the mayor's office we have the mayor and one. Correct.

[1:42:14] Correct.

[1:42:15] So there's no other positions that are budgeted currently for the mayor's office. No. And same as the council, you have the seven council members and two staff members.

[1:42:26] Correct.

[1:42:27] So we would have to create positions for that and budget for that.

[1:42:32] Correct. So if you were to establish and I don't believe this is what you're attempting to do, like a minimum number of positions. But let's say that as a hypothetical, if you were to try to establish a minimum number of positions for the mayor's office or a minimum number of positions for the council office, that would require the city to budget funds for that, which means that is locking away as kind of like a set budget that the city manager cannot utilize for anything else.

[1:43:08] It's tied up money.

[1:43:09] It'd be tied up money. Correct.

[1:43:11] Okay.

[1:43:19] Okay. Anything else on that tonight? Um, all right. We have, uh, new items. Does anybody wish to. Oh, did we have any public comments on, uh, on item five? Yes we did. Jim Smith, would you like to speak on item five? Mr. Smith, you said your piece.

[1:43:42] Tim, did you want to talk on B and C at all? Because we largely focus just on a on five.

[1:43:50] Uh, staff didn't have anything. Do you have something.

[1:43:52] Well, I'll go into b um On the letter sent out by BK. So the mayor already has the power to play something on the agenda. So this will be something, a recommendation of maybe just adding that verbiage into our charter.

[1:44:08] Right.

[1:44:11] So it's not a whole lot for us to discuss on be I think besides, if we just want to add some kind of verbiage.

[1:44:19] Um.

[1:44:24] Can we, uh, ask. I think we already have maybe asked the city manager's office to, um, refresh us on the

[1:44:34] term limits analysis that I think we already talked some about in terms of what other cities do and maybe at your discretion, if you wanted to add to that. So we can have a continued discussion at our next meeting on, um, what, what some of our comparable cities do and what our options are.

[1:44:55] I just did a real quick search last night and without term limit, no term limit. Cities near us, Rancho Cucamonga, Ontario, Fontana, Redlands, Highland all do not have term limits.

[1:45:11] Two year, four year terms.

[1:45:13] I do not have no.

[1:45:14] I know, but their their positions ran for four years.

[1:45:17] Yes. Okay.

[1:45:19] Um, on uh, see, um, I definitely want to just reiterate that not having term limits actually helps in a council manager form of government because you want to have policy makers and decision makers that are there in a, in a long term versus, uh, to help oversee, um, the management of, of the city. The longer you have people there, the more insight they have in terms of what's worked and what's what's, what's not worked. Um, And again, at the end of the day, the people have the authority to remove them through through the election process. Um, something that caught my eye, um, that I think maybe should be explored. Uh, if we want to give more relevance to the mayor's office is looking at potentially the length of terms for the mayor's office, maybe looking at the mayor's office being six years versus four years in a sense, to where if if the mayor's office is six years and the council is four years, that way you, um, encourage any member of the council to be able to run for that for the mayor's position without losing their current council seat? Um, just something to think about is something that I've heard from council members that are kind of discouraged when their, their terms are up alongside the mayor. They're not necessarily motivated to run for the mayor's position because they want to keep their current seat. So just thinking about that, I, I think that the six year length is, um, worthwhile because there's a lot of things that are done under the leadership that where you, they vote on it, but then the progress doesn't come into fruition until sometimes after they're, um, not in that position anymore. So just, just something to think about. And I just wanted to express that idea as something that I'd be interested in supporting.

[1:47:24] Um.

[1:47:25] Um.

[1:47:26] Go ahead.

[1:47:27] FYI, Irvine and Santa Ana have, uh, two year terms for the mayor.

[1:47:38] Uh, just that's just FYI, I have yet I have never seen I have yet to see something with six years term in my research, but I have seen two of those two cities with two year terms.

[1:47:53] I just want to reiterate, because it was Mexican independence, the celebration recently, and I just want to highlight that the president of Mexico, Claudia Sheinbaum, she has a six year, six year term. So I think I just want to give a shout out there.

[1:48:09] And I and I think, like I said, I think we all will agree that there's pros and cons to term limits. Um, again, the reason I actually put these, these cities that were local cities that do not have term limits is because these are cities that are locally that have seen a lot of success over the last ten, 15, 20 years. You look at the city of Rancho Fontana, Redlands, Highland, and how much they've been able to grow and without term limits and the, you know, elected officials who have not done a good job, they've been elected out. I mean, the people have spoken and they've been they've been taken out.

[1:48:45] What about what about, um, what's his name?

[1:48:51] The one on the French shore. He's been there for ages.

[1:48:57] You want to give us your name?

[1:48:58] Roxanne. Okay. I'm in the sixth Ward.

[1:49:08] He's been there, what, 18 years? S7:

[1:49:16] What about Fontana, John Roberts?

[1:49:21] Yeah, he's doing a very good job.

[1:49:26] I know there's good and bad.

[1:49:28] Good and bad.

[1:49:29] If you like warehousing.

[1:49:31] Like you guys are saying, like two years as I think as both mayors. Two years is no.

[1:49:36] It's not enough. I think term limits, if we were to have something like that, um, we could be losing a lot of historical knowledge, you know, and that's very important to show where we've been and kind of help guide to where we're going. And without that historical knowledge, a lot of it is lost.

[1:49:58] I don't know if we we really gave any guidance at the time, but I think we were talking in June about three terms, limits of three terms. Um, some of the issues were, uh, apathy and campaign money and, uh, the incumbent's advantage. Um, I think like, like Mr. Garcia said this, we probably all have pluses and minuses, but I think we have to acknowledge that term limits tend to be wildly popular with the public. And, um, they do serve a purpose in that, you know, maybe there's certain people that are high propensity voters that know a certain council member. And because of that relationship, they'll vote for them forever. Whereas we have to look at the overall good of the city. And, um, uh, whether it's good to have the same people like Fred Charette in that position for that duration of time with the incumbents advantage every election.

[1:51:01] Yes. But in the city of San Bernardino, as over the last ten years, there is no incumbency advantage. I mean, yes, we're citing the one instance, but there's been a revolving door amongst our elected officials and city staff, um, that, you know, do a disservice to all of us. So I definitely recognize that it's a popular issue. Um, but when you look into the science of it and you look at a deeper, um, it's done, um, oftentimes more harm than good. And I think we can encourage more competition in our political space, which would uplift quality, um, by, by doing the right thing and, and, uh, not instituting term Tournament limits.

[1:51:43] I have a question for the city attorney, but may not be fair to put you on the spot. Not that I would expect you to know off the top of your head, but just in case you do. Um, Mr. Garcia mentioned some some examples of local cities. Uh, is a general law city able to, um, uh, put term limits on, uh, same as charter cities.

[1:52:09] I do not know about.

[1:52:12] I do not know off the top of my head, but I can look into it and give it to, um, to Willem to add for the next agenda.

[1:52:21] Right.

[1:52:22] And then I think we also need to look at cities with our challenges in terms of our size and our demographics. Um, because a city like Rancho doesn't really compare so closely to San Bernardino. Um, I don't know if if we can do that and put that burden on staff without being too much of a burden. Um, if we could compare like we've done with some other measures. Uh, some of the larger older cities, whether they have term limits.

[1:52:55] What I can do is get a list. What I'll do is get a list of charter review cities of a similar size to San Bernardino. I don't know plus or -25,000 plus or -50,000 people. And look at maybe similar demographics in terms of poverty rate or per capita income or household income, and then look through their charters.

[1:53:17] That would be great. Maybe cities over 100,000. I would say.

[1:53:21] If I look at all cities, over 100,000 in the state of California, that would be, um, a much more expansive task. Uh, I would have to, I wouldn't be able to promise that at the next meeting.

[1:53:33] Sure. Mr..

[1:53:35] Yeah. You know, I sent a Paper to Mr. Lambie of something I prepared of charter cities and some generals general cities locally. I just sent it to you right now, but looked at those with term limits and those type of things like that.

[1:54:04] And I really based it on cities below 500,000 S5:

[1:54:17] Yeah, maybe we could have that available as part of our packet next time. So the members of the public will have that.

[1:54:25] I can provide that, yes.

[1:54:27] Okay.

[1:54:30] Anything else? Okay. Can we move on to item six? Future agenda items.

[1:54:42] Is there anything new we want to put on the agenda? S1:

[1:54:44] I would like to look at, uh, lame duck.

[1:54:51] Time frame. Uh, we've had some lame duck, uh, members of.

[1:55:03] Council right now, and they're sitting over there 5 or 6 months. And also, uh, right here because we have people here that are.

[1:55:17] Representative of the lame duck. And I'm not saying for whatever reason, but they're not here tonight, you know, and that one, two and four, you know, so one, two. But, you know, I don't know whether that's here or and there. But at least for the council, that's a long period of time for them to be sitting up there making decisions that and then that are impacting the city and a lot of the decisions they're making, in my opinion, while they're in lame duck status, is based on personal issues and not based on the greater good for the city. And that's just as a resident looking at these meetings. So I, you know, I don't know how we can look at something where we can shorten that time frame. I know at one time we had three months from once they were ran into the runoff, uh, that we had an election after that, but I don't know how we could do that nowadays since we're basing it on the primary and general time frame. But I just like the possibility to look at that.

[1:56:40] Yeah, I, I guess we shouldn't get too much into discussion on that. I'm trying to bite my tongue because that was a great point.

[1:56:48] But I was just going to remind the committee, um, this is not to discuss the merits. It's just to propose the idea. And if there is no objections or if you want to do a motion, I can add that as a discussion.

[1:56:59] Commentary on.

[1:57:00] It. You whet our appetite.

[1:57:03] Hard to avoid the comments.

[1:57:04] You wet our appetite, Mr. Johnson.

[1:57:07] I think it's appropriate to explain the context of what the item is, but maybe not go any further than that.

[1:57:12] Okay, I will withhold my.

[1:57:16] Remarks and I hear no objections to that. So we'll put that on the agenda for next time.

[1:57:23] Anything else? S4:

[1:58:46] We don't want to discuss it, but, um, I'm not hearing anybody else voicing that interest of putting it on the agenda.

[1:58:56] I think it's.

[1:58:57] Worth.

[1:58:57] Putting on the agenda discussing.

[1:59:01] You know, I, as someone who has served on that committee, uh, in San Bernardino, uh, I thought the process that we utilized was, uh, went very well because we based it on natural borders as much as possible. Uh, and the numbers equal out very, uh, very well. And we didn't from the the wards where they were prior to being changed. There was not that much movement as far as.

[1:59:41] Area,

[1:59:44] but you know, we still can look at it. But just the process when we did it in 2020, I thought the process went process went very well.

[1:59:57] Yeah. I shared Mr. Albert's interest in the topic in general, and certainly the county's measure, and certainly Senator Reyes's interest in it, but I'm just not hearing that out there in the city at all, that people are unhappy with the configuration of the wards. And I, I think that was one of the biggest issues in the in the prior round of charter changes, um, about what to do with the wards. And I just think that's been kind of debated to death and it's not a problem. So I, I wouldn't personally support spending our time trying to fix something that I don't think is broken. I think we got a lot of more serious issues to worry about.

[2:00:38] Well, I'd rather hopefully talk about this at a future agenda item if it's if it's published. Um, but I was also on that redistricting committee in 2020. And one of the inherent flaws of that process was that the mayor and the mayor and council members, specifically the council members, had pre-decided that they wanted to stay in their same wards without competition from the other. So I introduced a partizan gerrymandering aspect of it, when the primary focus should have been on establishing communities of interest together. So, um, there are flaws with a hyper partizanship in the redistricting process. And given that it's coming up in 2030. I just think it's appropriate that we at least have an educated discussion about it.

[2:01:29] We went through a number of of potential issues for charter change, and I think there were some that we were interested in, but we just decided we can't do everything on the first round. And so I kind of put this into that bucket that it's interesting. It should be something we keep in mind for the future. But, uh, in terms of getting ready for a ballot proposition at our first opportunity, I don't see that as something we should consider putting in the first round.

[2:01:57] At this point, we shouldn't have any kind of discussion. It's just that. Do you want to put it for next, next month's agenda? And I think that's where we should end it right there.

[2:02:05] Well, it's just that if we put it on the agenda, then we're spending our time and the staff's preparing. And I so I agree we shouldn't get into the weeds, but, um, I think this is fair discussion on whether we should put it on the agenda.

[2:02:19] And I'm totally flexible doesn't necessarily need to be the next agenda. I'm happy for it to be in the new year. Maybe when we know more as to following this bill that's taking place and whether the governor signs it, whether there's, you know, litigation that's presented from the county and just things to think about. Um, but again, I think it would be best if, um, you know, we had the, had the conversation as a city first. And I think it's totally within our purview to, to discuss it. And like I said, it's coming right around the corner. So.

[2:02:51] Okay. I appreciate that. Mr.. Albert. We'll keep that on the middle burner or the back burner somewhere. Um. Anything else? I have a motion to adjourn.

[2:03:02] Make a motion that we adjourn.

[2:03:04] Second.

[2:03:07] All in favor, say aye. Somebody couldn't wait to vote, I guess.

[2:03:12] Before we do that, number seven says that the next meeting is going to be held on the 28th. So can we.

[2:03:19] That's what we one. They're going to send this stuff out.

[2:03:21] We're going to do that by email.

[2:03:23] Yeah. So I will be sending an email to get a polling of availability. But as just part of the agenda process that that would be the next regular meeting. And so that would be essentially canceled. So I'll have to post a notice of cancellation for the regular meeting. And then there would be an agenda for the special meeting.

[2:03:41] Mhm. Thank you.

[2:03:44] And just a note that the courts are closed on Friday. It's Native American. Uh, is it Native American Heritage Day or Native American Day? Um, but I think most businesses are open and, and schools are in session. So enjoy. If you have a holiday, enjoy it. And if not, we'll see you next time. Thank you for coming and thank you. Ladies and gentlemen.

Charter Review Committee Meeting of 9/23/26

Transcript