[0:00] And we are going to start with the pledge. And I am going to congratulate

[0:04] and introduce our new fire chief Chris Corbin to lead us in the pledge tonight.

[0:14] » To the flag of the United States of America

[0:18] for it stands for it stands nation

[0:24] liberty and justice for all.

[0:30] instructions on exiting the building in case of emergency and review of

[0:34] technology options. Jesse Baker, city manager.

[0:38] » Thank you. So, for those who are here with us today in the room, thank you for

[0:41] joining us. If there is an emergency in this room during the meeting, you can go

[0:45] out the rear of the auditorium on the left or right side and then turn left or

[0:49] right to get outside. Uh for those joining us remotely, thank you for

[0:53] joining us as well. If you'd like to speak during any item on the council

[0:57] agenda, please use the raise hand function in the webinar and I will have

[1:00] the chair call on you. Um otherwise, we are not monitoring the chat for content.

[1:07] » Thank you, Jesse. Agenda review. Are there any additions, deletions, or

[1:11] changes in order of agenda items? >> Tim?

[1:17] » No, no, nothing for me. Thank you. >> Um hearing none, we'll move on to item

[1:22] four. This is comments and questions from the public for items not related to

[1:27] the agenda. Please come up to the podium. Make sure

[1:31] the green light is on and announce your name.

[1:37] » Make sure the Make sure the lights on. Please.

[1:50] » How about now? >> There you go. Okay, there we go. Okay.

[1:53] Um, my name is Mitchell Cypes. I'm here um

[1:57] actually in two different capacities. one as president of the Dorset Farms

[2:02] Home Association board and I'm also here as candidate for Chin and a uh for state

[2:08] representative and I'll just before I get into this I'll just simply say as a

[2:14] recently retired municipal employee who staffed a DRB for quite a long time I I

[2:20] feel for you in uh what you're going through right now. So, um I know this is

[2:26] um I want to see if the city council could help the Dorset Farms community

[2:30] with a bit of a problem that we have. Um uh we're not get we're only getting a

[2:35] little bit of our mail and uh the post office um they are basically blaming

[2:41] staff shortages and such and for some particular reason they believe that a

[2:46] 221 unit subdivision um in a very concentrated development is

[2:52] somehow a rural route and they're basically telling us that they don't

[2:56] have to deliver our mail um that we have to go to Pine Street to actually get our

[3:02] And um and uh and the worst part probably is

[3:08] that they didn't even announce it to us. They just basically just stopped

[3:11] delivering most of our mail and uh this becomes uh in part a city problem

[3:18] because uh many of us did not get our absentee ballots. Now I I have full

[3:24] confidence that uh the city clerk mailed them all and so forth. This is clearly a

[3:30] thing for um you know clear clearly a thing on the post office that we're

[3:35] actually not getting our mail and um you know we're informing our neighbors and

[3:40] trying to get the the word out uh internally but um I want to know if the

[3:45] uh city could possibly help us maybe say something to the post office especially

[3:51] I mean I don't want to be as the candidate in a situation we're going to

[3:54] request that the absentee ballots be delayed until this uh matter gets

[3:59] resolved. But if the city can do something about that, uh the community

[4:04] very appreciative.

[4:08] » Thank you.

[4:11] » Any other comments?

[4:17] » Good evening. >> My name is uh Carl Hardman and I'm here

[4:21] today to um present an app that I created um called First Step Vermont. Um

[4:27] I built this. What's the name of it? >> First Step Vermont.

[4:29] » First Step. >> Mhm. Um, so I built this app because I

[4:34] noticed that there are a lot of resources out there in uh Vermont for

[4:39] people in need. Um, and but it they're hard to find. So, what this app actually

[4:46] does is um you just go straight to the app. You take the and it'll help you

[4:52] with that first step to get um started to where you need to go and uh finding

[4:57] help. Um what I'm here looking for actually is um to work directly with um

[5:05] um any of anyone in like this higher community leadership. Um, I did talk to

[5:11] uh Chief Brulet and uh Miss Baker there

[5:16] about the app before and he said that he would uh start working with me also. And

[5:21] I have um a bunch of packets to hand out or can answer any questions

[5:29] after the meeting.

[5:42] I sounds really interesting. I Let's Let's have a conversation.

[5:46] » Yeah. And I think connecting with Chief Pro was the way to start for sure.

[5:50] » Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you.

[5:51] » Thank you.

[5:57] Anyone else in the audience or online? >> Loretta has her hand up. Lora Marott,

[6:03] please. I was just wondering how I was going to

[6:08] be unmuted, but I just got a message saying I could click that and unmute

[6:12] myself. So, yes, my name's Loretta Marriott. I live um on Mills Avenue in

[6:18] South Burlington. And um I was um I'm calling your attention to the fact that

[6:26] in my opinion, Red Rocks Park needs some attention. You might wonder why I'm um

[6:31] speaking to you now. And that is that um I haven't been able to be um you know

[6:37] hiking around Red Rocks Park, which is my usual um for quite a few months now.

[6:43] And um now I have been able to. So, um here is what my um concern is and that

[6:52] um would be number one um there's serious erosion in the park and number

[6:58] two there's damage to the more than 100 year old rock walls supporting the

[7:04] trails. Um, I sent some uh photographs today to um Andrea who forwarded them to

[7:14] um Jesse and Nicholas. Um I have lots more photographs and I was thinking that

[7:21] it might be great if I could meet with um perhaps Nicholas. He called back

[7:26] while I wasn't here. So we'll talk more. Um, but I have some suggestions for

[7:31] that. Um, what to do about this situation. Um, one, two, three, four,

[7:38] five. And I don't know if you want to hear them or if you want me to just um,

[7:43] call it uh, good for now. >> I think it makes sense, Loretta, for you

[7:48] to leaz with Nicholas or staff from the Department of Public Works and um, they

[7:55] can vet things that make sense and then bring it back to us.

[8:00] Okay, I will. The reason why I'm, you know, um, bringing it to you and, uh,

[8:05] thought I would speak to Nicholas is because it's kind of a, um, a multi-EP

[8:10] department thing. You know, there's public works and, there's parks and

[8:14] wreck and, you know, um, whatnot. Uh, I don't think that it's just one, um, part

[8:21] of the, um, city structure that's going to be able to take care of, you know, a

[8:27] lot of these things. So I will meet with Nicholas and thank you very much.

[8:32] » Thank you so much. Anyone else in the audience or online?

[8:40] » Okay. So we'll move on to item five, councilor's announcements and reports on

[8:47] committee assignments and city managers report. And Elizabeth, would you like to

[8:51] go? >> Sure. I was uh on vacation since our

[8:55] last meeting, but um I don't recall if I had reported out on the um meeting of

[9:01] the uh housing committee. So I wanted if I'm repetitive, I'll ask for your

[9:07] forgiveness, but I think it's worth highlighting. Uh the housing committee

[9:10] met with Jasmine Hurley who's the housing initiative director from Wooki

[9:14] um and had an opportunity the the primary discussion on the last meeting's

[9:20] agenda was on the housing trust and the committee meets again tomorrow but there

[9:26] was a lot of good information exchanged on how Wooki has structured their

[9:31] housing trust and the programs that they fund with that um as a fair amount of

[9:35] benchmarking work that the committee is doing in terms of coming forward with

[9:39] recommendations um to council on how to move forward with our own housing trust.

[9:44] Um and that is it with um the one comment that I will be at the um SBBA

[9:52] meeting at the airport tomorrow. Um I'm just trying to think if I have anything

[9:57] else here. Um, I did have an opportunity to sit in with Lori on a preview of the

[10:02] Civic Soul um, presentation that uh, we'll all see and that's getting revised

[10:08] and updated on the master plan for um, open space and uh, parks. Um, and um, I

[10:16] think everybody's going to be excited about that. I think that is it for now.

[10:20] Thank you. >> Thank you, Elizabeth.

[10:22] Tim, if you're still there hopefully. Um, anything to report?

[10:28] » I am here. Can you hear me? >> Yes.

[10:30] » So, uh, it was a pretty light two weeks. I felt like a a bit of a vacation from

[10:35] city council, but in that time, um, I did have a conversation with counselors

[10:40] and Steve and Loretta Marriott were there and they were asking about some

[10:44] erosion in Red Rocks Park. So, it looks like she beat me to the punch tonight by

[10:49] coming in. Thank you very much, Fetta, if you're still online. Um, we have

[10:54] concerns about that. Uh, also I attended the SB3C reception uh at the home suit

[11:02] and uh could not stay for the whole time because I had to meet some uh my family

[11:06] for dinner because my son went back to Taiwan for a second year of grad school

[11:10] at the end of August. And uh the public arts committee is meeting uh in a couple

[11:16] days midday to do an evaluation about the latest suggestion by the curator for

[11:21] a a one uh person artist show. Um I won't be able to attend that. And that's

[11:27] all I have. Thank you. >> Uh thank you Tim. Um before I go I just

[11:32] want uh folks in person to know that I brought a basket of fruit fresh picked

[11:37] from some apple trees and I think there's some peaches still left. So,

[11:40] anyone's welcome to grab if you would like. Okay. Um, so, uh, I also attended

[11:47] the SBC3 event. Really excited about, um, Lunix coming to the corner here on

[11:52] Market Street. I attended the the Reckon Park in it, which was really something.

[11:56] the number of people there that volunteer um for our wreck and parks

[12:00] department is is um uh it's it's really testament to the community and the

[12:07] amazing number of events that our department is able to hold every year uh

[12:13] just blew me away. It was several hundred or something. I mean so multiple

[12:17] events a day I just you know just really something and um we have a great

[12:21] department. I was at um the uh sendoff retirement um for our former um chief

[12:30] and and and deputy city manager Steve Lock who is um moving on to bigger and

[12:36] better as the president of the international firefighters association

[12:40] who knew from South Burlington. Um, there was also an incredibly well done,

[12:45] moving, just really, really moving testament to Steve. The number of folks

[12:50] who spoke so highly of him um obviously not surprised um was was really was

[12:56] really something. I was deeply moved um by that event. And today there was a

[13:01] section committee meeting and an economic development committee meeting.

[13:06] the at the economic development committee, we learned um and I think

[13:09] this number is right that our city center had 11.7 million visitors last

[13:15] year. Burlington only had 7 million visitors

[13:19] and I guess it's the mall. So, um much more than than I knew than I would have

[13:27] guessed. So, I guess we're doing we're doing pretty good. A lot of people come

[13:31] to South Burlington. Um pretty nice. Uh, and we we discussed some of what we're

[13:37] going to discuss tonight. There was some good feedback on our proposed changes to

[13:41] the quality of life ordinance. So, that was good. Sex is continuing to do their

[13:45] work. They worked on their work work plan, a schedule for watering, discussed

[13:49] a little bit that they've got these these big tanks out there now that are

[13:53] not the most attractive, but we need them to support the um plantings that

[13:57] we're going to be doing in Eldidge. And hopefully there'll be a plan over time

[14:01] to get um maybe better watering system into that cemetery. We talked a little

[14:06] bit about the Shelbert Road Cemetery, the need for a fence and and other

[14:10] things. Um so that's all I have. Jesse, >> great. Thanks. Um I have quite a few

[14:17] things and Nicholas, if I don't say something you want to hit on, feel free

[14:21] to add. Um so we are just for community's awareness we are officially

[14:25] rescheduling our September 21st council meeting to September 22nd. That will be

[14:30] warned widely. Um before that is our green community festival on the 19th

[14:35] from 11 to 3 here at city um city hall and the library and on market street. We

[14:41] are still looking for volunteers. So folks are interested in volunteering um

[14:45] please get in touch with anybody from the energy committee or Betina Migz. Um,

[14:49] we are also looking for volunteers for the flyby 5K on October 3rd. That's the

[14:55] 5K at the airport that runs from 7:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. So, if folks are

[14:59] interested, um, registration is closed, but you could still come and volunteer

[15:02] and be a part of the community event. Um, and you can email our recreation

[15:07] staff, any of them, if you are interested.

[15:10] Um, the Secretary of State will be sending all registered Vermont voters

[15:14] the general election ballots u beginning on September 21st. So, starting

[15:19] September around September 25th here at city hall, we will become a voting

[15:23] center. Um, so you will see the the uh voting booths go up and will become um

[15:29] area not for campaigning. Um, I want to share with the community

[15:34] and the council, you can also see this on the DRB agenda that uh the DRB this

[15:39] week held a sketch plan application for the former Pillsbury Manor um property

[15:44] on Willist Road. Um that's including subdividing that property into two

[15:48] parcels with the intent of changing one of the buildings from uh formerly

[15:54] congregate care use to apartment use. Um so it's the first uh new adaptive reuse

[16:00] that we will see in the city following the council approving the LDRs a few

[16:03] months ago or last month. Um as the council knows, we have our

[16:08] tier 1A act 250 application in. We have our land use review board site visit

[16:13] this week and then they will have 30 days to uh provide feedback on our

[16:17] application. So we will hear later in the fall. Um Erica, jump in here if I

[16:24] say anything incorrectly. At your first meeting in February, the council

[16:27] approved that traffic signal priority project. So, um allowing buses within a

[16:34] very narrow parameter to preempt the lights to maintain the public transit um

[16:39] schedule of folks being able to use public transit and get to where they're

[16:42] going. It's been very successful. Um since June, red light delays on the bus

[16:48] system is down over 60%. So, it is working and we haven't I have not heard

[16:52] any uh complaints about that preeemption or changing traffic patterns.

[16:57] Um work on Garden Street connecting over to Midas continues. Uh the water line

[17:02] has been installed and they are now working on the storm water and drain

[17:05] drainage work. Um they're still on track to open the road at the end of November

[17:10] this year, which is great. Um thank you to Erica and her team for continuing

[17:14] that work. Um, as the council knows and hopefully the committee knows, we have

[17:19] um an economic mobility program that's shared between uh Shelurn, South

[17:24] Burlington, Essex Junction, and Wooki with an economic mobility specialist

[17:28] employed by CCRPC with the four entities, four municipalities. We had

[17:33] our first event at the library at the end of August with presentations from

[17:36] the Vermont Business Development Center, SCORE, and the Vermont Small Business

[17:40] Law Center. um was pretty well attended with about 15 entrepreneurs from South

[17:46] Burlington in the region looking to um build their businesses and grow uh their

[17:51] entrepreneurialship here in the city. So, we're happy to see that kicking off.

[17:56] Um and then finally, just wanted to give a big shout out to our recreation team.

[18:00] Thank you, Andrew, also for recognizing them. Uh last weekend over a 24-h hour

[18:05] period, our team managed the farmers market, the new parkfest um event, and

[18:10] the international food festival. So, between our very small team, they

[18:13] coordinated seven different locations with 12 musical asks acts and over 40

[18:18] vendors within a 24-h hour period on Friday and Saturday. So, good job to

[18:22] them. Um beautiful weekend for it. That's what I've got. Thanks. Sorry,

[18:28] Nicholas. doing it.

[18:37] » Okay. So, we're going to move on to item six. Uh Tim, are you still on the line?

[18:42] » I am. >> Okay, great. So, our consent agenda. So,

[18:45] item 6A, consider and sign dispersements. Item 6B, adopt 2026

[18:52] Vermont Town, Road and Bridge Standards. Item 6 C, award the construction

[18:58] contract for the DPW site improvements project to SD Island and authorize the

[19:02] inter interim director of public works to execute and manage the contract. Item

[19:07] 6D, approve the truck financing. Can I have a motion to approve the consent

[19:13] agenda? >> So moved.

[19:15] » Do I have a second? >> Second.

[19:17] » I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say I.

[19:21] » I. >> Tim.

[19:23] » I. >> I. That's unanimous.

[19:26] » Thank you. So, we'll move on to item seven.

[19:31] » So, I'm sorry to do this to you, but both of these public hearings are seven.

[19:35] Okay. >> So, you need to vamp for eight minutes.

[19:38] » So, we are going to pause for a few minutes um because we've worn the

[19:43] hearing for seven and we're a little bit >> ahead efficient with fewer counselors on

[19:48] the at the table. in theory go to 16 and 17 if you would like.

[19:58] » Okay, let's do 16. So, we're going to jump to item 16, which is designate a

[20:04] voting delegate for the Vermont League of Cities and Towns annual meeting

[20:08] scheduled for town fair on October 6, 2026. Jesse Baker, city manager.

[20:15] Um so the Vermont League of Cities and Towns host town fair each year um on

[20:20] here in South Burlington because we have the largest conference facility in the

[20:23] state. Um the annual meeting this year is held the day before on October 6th.

[20:29] Um I am the past president of that board so I am required to attend and will be

[20:32] there. So I'm happy to vote on behalf of the council but you certainly can

[20:35] appoint somebody else. Um the reason why this is particularly

[20:40] um important this year, it's important on all years, but at the beginning of

[20:44] each bienium, the league sets a policy agenda and that will be reviewed at the

[20:48] annual meeting and approved at the October 6 meeting.

[20:54] » Um very good. Do I have a motion? I'll move to nominate Jesse Baker as the

[21:01] um voting delegate to the Vermont League of

[21:05] Lang Vermont League of City and Towns annual meeting.

[21:08] » Thank you. >> And I will second that motion.

[21:10] » Thank you, Tim. I have a motion and a second. All uh in favor say I.

[21:15] » I. >> I.

[21:17] » I. And sorry for any background noise. >> No, it's all good. So that is unanimous.

[21:22] Congratulations, Jesse. >> Thank you.

[21:25] Congratulations. >> And we'll move to item 17 to convene as

[21:31] liquor control commission to consider the following applications

[21:35] for approval as presented in the agenda. Do I have a motion to convene as liquor

[21:43] control commissioner? >> So moved.

[21:45] » Do I have a second? >> I'll second that.

[21:48] » I have a motion and a second. All in favor say I.

[21:51] » I. >> I.

[21:52] » I. I >> we are now liquor control commission. Um

[21:56] can I have a motion to approve? >> So moved.

[22:01] » I'll second that. >> I have a motion a second. All in favor

[22:04] say I. >> I.

[22:06] » I. And it's. >> Can I have a motion to come out of look

[22:11] at control commissioner? >> So moved.

[22:13] » So moved. >> Second that.

[22:16] » I have a motion in a second. All in favor say I.

[22:19] » I. >> I. I. It's unanimous. We are now out of

[22:24] liquor control commission and we still have five more minutes.

[22:28] » Goodness. >> You should have listened.

[22:29] » I should have listed them all. Read them all.

[22:35] So, we'll we'll pause here. Um, we'll pause here for a few minutes and we will

[22:40] come back.

[22:44] » Are you gonna keep the lines open? >> Yeah. Well, you don't have to. I mean,

[22:49] you can jump out if you wanted to. Uh the problem was that it's like uh a

[22:56] 10digit code to type that. >> So hang on hang on there.

[22:59] » It took me 12 tries

[23:03] because I did I didn't copy paste. I just had a screenshot of it. So you know

[23:07] anyway I'll figure it out. So I'll I'll just uh I'll hang on.

[23:11] » What's your what's your ETA by the way? Well, right now we are passing in front

[23:18] of the innovation center, the LGE plant. >> Ah,

[23:22] » in Hoola. >> Yeah.

[23:24] » So, we are headed back to the slip. >> Okay.

[23:27] » As we speak, the sail is down. The wind died about

[23:30] » an hour ago, but we had a good five, six knot wind on the way out to the west and

[23:35] it was really pleasant. >> Sounds good.

[23:37] » Still really pleasant. >> Sounds good. Thanks.

[23:40] » And now the sun has come out and so there's there's going to be a sunset.

[23:43] So, it's uh but pretty nice. You don't often get to see the the

[23:49] coastline this, you know, from this perspective if you're on the bike path

[23:52] all the time. But this is what the New Yorkers see

[23:55] when they look over here. They go, "Oh, that's Vermont." And we're looking the

[23:58] other way going, "Oh, that's New York." You know,

[24:34] It's a really good time to grab a piece of fruit.

[26:08] What's

[26:20] up?

[27:03] Okay, we are back.

[27:07] Timmy Solen, >> I am here.

[27:10] » Wonderful. So, we're going to move on to item seven, which is to hold a second

[27:16] reading and public hearing on updates to the South Burlington City Ordinance,

[27:21] chapter 14, environment, chapter 20, miscellaneous offenses, chapter 32,

[27:25] street, sidewalks, and other public spaces, and chapter 36, traffic, and

[27:30] vehicles, and to resin city policy 2022-05

[27:35] and 2025-03. These changes address behaviors related

[27:41] to unmet social needs that impact both an individual's quality of life and the

[27:47] quality of life of the greater community. With Bill Bur, Bill Bald, our

[27:52] police chief, and Collet McNeel, our city attorney, presenting. Thank you.

[27:57] » Thank you. Good evening. Uh you he pretty much said everything I was going

[28:02] to say. Uh these are indeed uh ordinances that I'm proposing to help um

[28:07] address unmet social needs and and essentially provide our offices with a

[28:11] tool um to help uh connect individuals who may otherwise be service resistant

[28:16] to services. Um understanding that not everybody will accept that or or may not

[28:22] accept that on the first try. We anticipate u or I anticipate using a

[28:27] progressive enforcement model. Um, and every one of these ordinances has the

[28:31] ability to be diverted to services and that will be our intent as I I presented

[28:36] over the last several meetings. Now,

[28:40] » so unless the council has questions, I would propose that you open the public

[28:44] hearing. And would you like me to read that motion?

[28:47] » I think just before just one other comment on that. I think we talked about

[28:50] it last time, but just to reinforce it. Um in our in our in the chief's

[28:54] presentation last time, he showed a really good image of a police of a of a

[28:58] car having an accident driving over the median. Um where um one of the purposes

[29:03] of our ordinances, especially in chapter 36, is to address public safety and the

[29:08] safety of people um standing on medians and the the traveling public and that is

[29:12] a strong motivator for for what we are doing uh with regard to that those

[29:17] amendments. >> Thank you. I I had one quick question. I

[29:22] got a call from a community member today about the um and I I don't know if you

[29:27] can answer this or if it's specific to the proposed um ordinance change, but it

[29:31] was disposal of drug paraphernelia and there was some specificity there about

[29:36] sharps containers. Um and their question was they often do some

[29:45] » Sorry, you probably should open the public hearing first. I'm sorry.

[29:50] So, the motion would be to um to uh read the ordinances by title and open a

[29:56] public hearing on amendments to the South Burlington Code ordinances chapter

[29:59] 14, chapter 20, chapter 32, and chapter 36 for the purpose of addressing public

[30:04] safety and quality of life issues. >> Do I have a motion?

[30:09] » I'll move that we open the public hearing.

[30:11] » Do I have a second? >> And I'll second that.

[30:13] » I have a motion and a second. All in favor say I.

[30:16] » I. Um, we are now in public session. >> I I

[30:21] » Thank you, Tim. So, um, should we maybe before we do the public

[30:27] hearing, Chief, if you want to just maybe just say a few words just

[30:30] summarize two minutes the the major changes to the to ordinance?

[30:35] » Sure. >> Sure. uh chapter 14 environment. The the

[30:40] changes uh would be to uh include the safe disposal of drug paraphernalia by

[30:45] adding uh that no person shall discard, possess, keep or store drug path in a

[30:49] manner that the person knows or reasonably should know would

[30:52] intentionally or otherwise endanger harm or potentially place an harm the welfare

[30:55] of a child by the inter in intentional or accidental contact with the same. It

[31:01] will also prohibit or there'll be language that includes no person shall

[31:05] discard drug paraphernalia except into sharps, containers, or other receptacles

[31:09] specifically designated for purpose of discarding drug paraphernalia on school

[31:13] property, daycare property, city parks, playgrounds, or other properties where

[31:16] the person knows or reasonably shouldn't know the ch the children congregate.

[31:20] This was to uh address issues or potential safety concerns of uh drug

[31:26] paraphernalia being or children being exposed uh to drug paraphernalia.

[31:32] Um the changes also include a prohibition of littering in the city.

[31:39] Uh, chapter 20, uh, miscellaneous offenses. Uh, no person shall no hunger

[31:44] intentionally in a public place openly consume an alcoholic beverage or have in

[31:47] their possession an alcoholic or intoxicating beverage container. Chapter

[31:52] 32, streets, sidewalks, and other public places uh will include shelter intents

[31:58] to the definition of structure. Structure means any assembly of goods

[32:02] and materials including for temporary or permanent use, shelter or occupancy

[32:05] including but not limited to tents, bicycle racks, tables, chairs, act

[32:10] access ramps, rails, petitions or vending machines.

[32:16] Chapter 36, traffic in vehicles. Uh, unless, it includes language that now

[32:22] says, "Unless required by a traffic control device applicable to

[32:24] pedestrians, no person shall stop or stand upon any portion of the roadway to

[32:29] include any traffic island or design or area designed to divide vehicular

[32:33] traffic. Um both this chapter 36 as well as um chapter 20 both allow the city

[32:43] manager or uh to allow for a permit to to either uh

[32:51] vi to to uh to be in the roadway or to possess u alcoholic beverages in public

[32:59] or consume alcoholic beverages in public.

[33:02] All of them contain language uh that will allow for uh we've added language

[33:09] in addition to language that currently exist in our ordinances that allow for

[33:14] municipal the issuing municipal offic to to uh divert the the offense to a

[33:20] restore of justice program. We we also added uh or an appropriate diversion

[33:25] program as determined by the city manager or the city man design that is

[33:28] designed to assist the individual meeting unmet social needs. Uh so again

[33:33] they're all clearly designed to uh work with work to divert people to uh a

[33:40] program or which you'll be hearing more later in the night. uh I contract an

[33:47] employee embedded with this the police department to connect people to

[33:50] appropriate social services.

[33:57] » Thank you, Chief. So, um members of the public are welcome to provide uh

[34:02] comments and feedback at this time. Anyone in the audience?

[34:09] Anyone online?

[34:16] Okay, seeing none, um we'll close the public hearing and then we can discuss.

[34:21] So motion to Oh yeah. >> Yep. So the motion would be to close the

[34:25] public hearing on the amendments to South Burlington Code of Ordinances

[34:28] Chapter 14 2032 and 36. >> So moved.

[34:32] » Do I have a second? >> I'll second that.

[34:34] » I have a motion and a second. All in favor say I. I.

[34:37] » We are now out of public hearing. I >> thank you Tim.

[34:44] » So now I go on to your next agenda item and discussion.

[34:49] » Sorry for that. >> That's all right.

[34:50] » Yeah. Okay. Item 10 is possibly approve item ah I jumped. Sorry. Item eight

[34:57] possibly approve updates to South Burg City Ordinance. Chapter 14 environment.

[35:01] Chapter 20 miscellaneous offenses. Chapter 32 street sidewalks and other

[35:06] public spaces. And chapter 36 traffic and vehicles. and resend policy city

[35:10] policy 2022-05

[35:14] and 2025-03

[35:19] » Elizabeth >> so now I will ask those questions for

[35:22] clarification um one was on disposal of drug

[35:26] paraphernalia and I know there are Vermont Department of Public Health um

[35:30] guidelines for disposal if a private citizen comes across and this individual

[35:34] seems to volunteer for cleanup of church grounds and things like that and

[35:39] indicated um how they are disposing of it. And I I think when I just glanced

[35:47] over it as you were talking about it, Chief um this is this is not intended to

[35:53] limit safe disposal to sharps containers. It's any appropriate

[35:57] container. Is that fair comment? >> That that's correct. any appropriate

[36:01] containment that is designed to to for drug personnel to be uh discarded in.

[36:07] Not well, we're the intent of this is not to simply place it on top of, you

[36:11] know, a pile of trash in an open trash recepticle where somebody could still

[36:15] access it or somebody unintentionally pushing trash down may may get stuck

[36:20] with a needle. >> Yeah. And it it sounded like this person

[36:23] was using safe disposal techniques, but not specifically sharps containers. Um

[36:29] but close, right? There's a whole host of ways they can be done. It can be done

[36:32] safely. It doesn't necessarily include a sharps container.

[36:36] » Okay. Um the other question was around and I think I knew the answer to this,

[36:40] but just for clarification for um the public uh regarding the um public safety

[36:48] issues associated with uh traffic uh and median. Um, this individual asked about

[36:55] adding no soliciting, but I think you covered that at a prior meeting, which I

[36:59] was not in attendance, but I listened to,

[37:01] » right? You know, I asking somebody for money is constitutionally protected.

[37:05] It's it's your your first amendment right

[37:08] » and that's what I indicated to this community.

[37:09] » The concern is where you're doing it, how you're doing it in a location that's

[37:12] safe. And as the city um attorney uh stated, we did I did show a photo from a

[37:19] crash that happened in July, an intersection related crash on Williston

[37:23] that forced a vehicle up onto the median uh at Dorset where an individual often

[37:28] uh sits. Fortunately, the individual wasn't there at the time, but so there

[37:32] is a in and majority of our serious bodily injury crashes are accident

[37:37] related or more significant crashes or intersection related. Um, so this is a a

[37:43] very big safety concern that we that I have. Um, but additional to that, if

[37:49] there is somebody that is standing on the median, uh, they're likely doing so

[37:53] because of an unmet social need if we could connect them to services, we

[37:56] address this the immediate safety concern and also hopefully improve that

[38:00] individual's quality of life. And another consideration is just that

[38:05] we did an you know a quick analysis but most of our medians if not all of our

[38:10] medians are very narrow. Uh we're not a municipality with huge wide medians

[38:14] where um you could stand safely. All our medians

[38:19] are mostly narrow and very dangerous to be standing in in the road.

[38:23] » Right. Thank you. And the last one only because I didn't know this uh or the

[38:28] answer to this is um are bus stops in the city um considered non-smoking areas

[38:35] and I don't know who knows that question or answer that question. I did not know

[38:40] it. >> I don't know that.

[38:43] » All right. I'll find out and get back to the individual.

[38:47] Thank you. Uh Tim, you have any questions or or

[38:52] comments or >> No, no questions. Ready for the vote.

[38:56] » So, I'll just I just want to note because we did have at least one

[38:58] constituent ask uh about this. So, the policy that we are rescending has um

[39:06] pretty nuanced and elaborate procedures around what a public safety professional

[39:11] should do when um they encounter a campsite, a tent site, you know, on on a

[39:17] public space. um we are revoking that policy and replacing with the ordinance.

[39:21] The ordinance prohibits that but gives the chief discretion

[39:27] um to address those situations in a

[39:32] compassionate humane way by connecting individuals with services. Um so

[39:40] you know there's maybe less hair than meets the eye. the discretion is moving

[39:44] to the public safety professionals to address those situations with compassion

[39:49] with the additional resources that the chief has identified and I just just

[39:52] want to make that clear for the community. So,

[39:57] um with that, we ready for a vote? Okay. Do I have a motion? I'll make a motion

[40:04] to approve um the ordinance chapter 14, chapter 20, chapter 32 and chapter 36

[40:12] and resend city council policies 2022-05 2025-3.

[40:19] » Thank you, Elizabeth. Do I have a second?

[40:22] » I'll second that again. >> Thank you, Tim. All those in favor say

[40:25] I. >> I.

[40:26] » I. >> I. And it is approved unanimously.

[40:30] » Thank you. Okay. So, we will move on to item nine.

[40:35] We just hold a second hearing and public hearing on updates to South Burlington C

[40:41] ordinance chapter 22 parks and recreation and chapter 36 traffic and

[40:46] vehicles. These changes address electric mobility devices recommend as

[40:52] recommended by our bicycle and pedestrian committee. inviting Bill Bar,

[40:56] Bill B, police chief Erica Towel, interim director of public works, and

[41:01] our city attorney, Colin McNeel.

[41:06] » Good evening, >> are we still open, Jesse? Are we still

[41:10] in? >> No, you need to open another one. Um, do

[41:14] he can do an intro and then you can open or you can just go straight to opening

[41:16] if you'd like. >> Do a quick intro here.

[41:20] » Sure. Sure. At the request of the uh bike ped committee and our own um

[41:26] complaints that the police departments received uh we have brought forward uh

[41:31] updates to uh two ordinance two city ordinances chapter 22 and chapter 36

[41:37] essentially moved uh did some housekeeping and moved what was in

[41:42] chapter 22 into chapter 36 identified um the difference between e-tos and ebikes

[41:49] uh and prohibited uh what is now prohibited on the wreck bike path which

[41:54] is essentially emot uh again as defined in the in the ordinance.

[42:00] » Thank you chief. So motion to open public hearing.

[42:05] » So the motion do you have a do you want me to? You can go ahead and I'll

[42:09] » So the motion would be to read the ordinances by title and open a public

[42:12] hearing on amendments to the South Burlington Code of Ordinances Chapter 22

[42:16] and chapter 36 for the purposes of addressing e-mobility devices.

[42:21] » So moved. >> I have a second.

[42:24] » I'll second that. >> Thank you. I have a motion to second.

[42:28] All in favor open the public hearing say I.

[42:30] » I. >> I.

[42:32] » Public hearing is now open. Anyone in the audience or online like to address

[42:39] these ordinance changes?

[42:44] » Please uh come up to the mic and uh state your name and make sure the green

[42:48] light is on.

[42:56] » So it's not it's not on yet.

[43:02] My name is Isaac Theodore Rayson. I'm a resident of South Burlington. I had a

[43:07] comment on chapter 32, although I believe it's already passed.

[43:11] » No, please. This is the opportunity to to make

[43:14] » um I would like to suggest making an amendment to the wording

[43:20] on

[43:24] section 32 and 30 uh 32 and 23. I'm actually So yeah, I'm sorry. 32 was the

[43:33] last agenda item. So we we've already we've already passed that.

[43:37] » Okay. And no comment is made. >> Okay. Sorry. Yeah.

[43:48] » Any other comments from the public?

[43:53] » Okay. Can I have a motion to close the public hearing?

[43:57] » So moved. A second. >> I'll second that.

[44:00] » I have a motion and a second. All in favor say I.

[44:02] » I. >> We are now out of public hearing. And

[44:06] » I. >> Thank you, Tim. And we will move on to

[44:08] item 10. Possibly approve updates to South Burlington City Ordinance Chapter

[44:13] 22, Parks and Recreation, and Chapter 36, Traffic and Vehicles. Phil Ball,

[44:18] Erica Tao, and Colin McNeil. >> Don't read it. I can just say um one of

[44:26] like the what we basically did was we took the ordinances that was in chapter

[44:30] 22, deleted that, moved it over to to chapter 36 um and in so doing

[44:36] incorporated that ordinance into this and then adopted recommendations that

[44:41] the bike ped committee had recommended.

[44:47] » Okay. Thank you, Elizabeth. >> Um no, just a quick comment. I know I

[44:52] was uh listening to something on the radio today about the evolution of

[44:59] emotos and ebikes and I uh I think this is the move in the right direction but I

[45:05] also feel like it's going to be an evolving conversation based on some of

[45:10] the um products that are coming onto the market and being marketed to our youth.

[45:16] Um because the um I know there's a a wattage I think of 750. Um, and

[45:24] there's apparently devices out there that are not pedal assists that look a

[45:29] lot like ebikes and are going over a thousand and up to 3,000 that are really

[45:36] motorcycles. Um, so I suspect with technology and access, um, this is maybe

[45:42] an ongoing conversation, but in terms of uh, public safety and our pedestrian

[45:48] bike access path, um, I think this is one we have to keep an eye on.

[45:55] » Thank you, Tim. Any comments or questions?

[46:04] Tim, you still there?

[46:15] Are you looking for me? >> Yes.

[46:18] » What What state are you in right now? What are you looking for?

[46:21] » Um comments or we're considering um approving the uh bike ped um changes.

[46:28] » Right. Right. Right. Are you asking me do I have any comments? No, I I I

[46:32] support this. >> Okay. Thank you. Um I just I just wanted

[46:35] to um just clarification really for the public. I I support this too. The

[46:41] state law already provided for a lot of this, right? State law already um says

[46:45] that if there's a electric mobility device or ebike with more than 1000

[46:50] watts, it has to be registered, right? And it's um it's a motorcycle, you need

[46:54] a license. and state law already provides I think for um distinctions

[47:00] between 750 watt vehicles as ebikes and above

[47:04] that is not. So just what what um changes did we make to state law that

[47:13] would not be in effect but for these changes like what what are we adding?

[47:18] So we we are prohibiting regardless of you're absolutely correct. If somebody

[47:23] is operating an EOT, anything over 750 watts on the roadway, they have to be a

[47:30] licensed operator. The vehicle has to be uh it's treated as a motor vehicle. It

[47:35] has to be registered. It has to be insured, inspected, all those things.

[47:38] What we're saying is even if you do even if you have the vehicle inspected and

[47:42] insured and you are a licensed operator, you still cannot operate it on the the

[47:47] wreck bike path. >> Okay. So, state law provided for that

[47:50] that latter point. Right. >> Correct. Yeah. We're allowed to regulate

[47:54] what's on our recreation paths and our sidewalks and state law doesn't cover

[47:57] that. Just gives us the authority to do so. And so with these amendments, we're

[48:01] we're regulating what uses can be um made to our our wreck paths and

[48:07] sidewalks. Very good. Okay. Thank you for that clarification. Um, are we ready

[48:11] for the vote? Have a motion. >> So, I'll make a motion to

[48:16] » Oh, Tim, >> yeah, I'm ready.

[48:21] » Can you hear me? >> Yes.

[48:22] » Yeah. >> Okay. You're making a motion?

[48:25] » Yeah. Elizabeth was going to make a motion.

[48:27] » Yes. I'll make the motion to um approve city ordinance chapter 22 and chapter

[48:34] 36. >> Do I have a second? I'll second that

[48:38] motion. >> Thank you. I have a motion and a second.

[48:40] All those in favor say I. >> I.

[48:42] » I. >> I.

[48:43] » I. Thank you. Motion is approved unanimously.

[48:47] » Thank you. >> Thank you.

[48:48] » Thank you. >> And we shall move on to item 11.

[48:55] approved contract with Howard Centu to support a service coordinator to connect

[48:59] individuals with unmet social needs to appropriate social services as part of

[49:04] the city's overall response to assisting individuals

[49:08] experiencing unmet social need. Bill Brolie,

[49:12] » good evening again. Uh yes, this is the we've been talking and and pleased to to

[49:19] bring forward to tonight what we believe is a a

[49:25] an agreement that that meets the needs uh of of the city and the police

[49:29] department in connecting people to services. This would uh provide through

[49:34] a contract with Howard Center uh an embedded 30-hour a week um service

[49:38] coordinator or social worker. Um I sent out an email earlier answering a few of

[49:43] Council Fitzgerald's questions. Um I believe uh you as this is and we are

[49:49] treating it as a pilot program, there will be adjustments uh certainly made.

[49:54] uh what data is specifically collected, the things that are highlighted in the

[49:57] contract are specifically related to payment and and the contract. Uh but we

[50:02] will continue to work to develop the pilot program o o o o o o o o o o o o o

[50:06] o o o o o o o o over the next quite frankly few years uh as we as we

[50:10] determine uh what what our data is is showing us what how we're being

[50:15] successful uh where the program is being effective where it isn't being

[50:19] effective. Uh I'm also certain that this program will highlight uh gaps in

[50:24] service uh needs that we can uh then advocate uh to have filled.

[50:33] » Thank you chief. Um just the the service coordinator chief is will be on the

[50:37] ground. >> Yes, they will be embedded with us at

[50:40] the police department. uh we will have a a a a supervisory officer assigned as

[50:46] the coordinator for the police department to coordinate things like

[50:49] when somebody's uh issued a a city ordinance violation that can be diverted

[50:53] u to to ensure that uh really the logistical part of that is being carried

[50:58] through so we know when to uh when to divert the ticket or not. uh we will

[51:03] also be working to you know identify uh or high frequency uh uses particularly

[51:09] for noncriminal issues that are related to an unmet social need that will go

[51:14] through that that supervisory officer uh they will work clo very closely with the

[51:19] the service coordinator but yes they will be on the ground uh unlike our

[51:23] outreach workers I they will be out in the community and will work with

[51:26] community members uh certainly but their goal is not to respond with officers or

[51:32] respond in lie of officers like our outreach workers do. Our outreach

[51:35] workers through Harvard are really designed to deal with people in acute

[51:38] crisis, help that person navigate out of crisis. Uh this position is really

[51:43] designed to uh help people that are truly experiencing an unmet social need

[51:48] who are not in crisis uh from and get them connected to services to either

[51:53] limit or um limit any future crisis or limit really any future police

[51:59] involvement or or public safety involvement.

[52:04] Thank you. So, let's see. Um,

[52:09] any public?

[52:18] » Yeah, I think um I think this is uh will go great with that first step. Vermont,

[52:24] it's on the green. >> Can you hear me?

[52:28] » Okay, just please state your name again. Um, my name is uh Carl Hardman. Yeah, I

[52:33] think this would go great with the First Step Vermont app that I was uh talking

[52:37] about earlier, especially since in those situations, you know, um going there,

[52:43] not knowing what's going on, and um being able to just open the app, say

[52:47] exactly what's going on in that situation, and be directed

[52:52] um to whatever resources is needed um would help everybody involved at that

[52:58] moment. Yeah, thank you.

[53:05] » Okay, so um can I make a couple of comments? Um one,

[53:12] thank you chief for responding to the questions I had. I did have um a number

[53:17] of question that um Chief Bro responded to around the credentiing of the um

[53:22] service coordinator which is largely in the social work area. the um uh

[53:28] outcomes, how outcomes would be monitored as as the pilot progresses

[53:31] forward. Um and I think uh there's been a lot of thought given to that. I'm very

[53:36] supportive of this investment. It does sound like we need to um distinguish in

[53:43] terms of the funding model those services focused with or utilizing the

[53:47] opioid settlement funds. Um and I understand that better now. Um I also

[53:53] wanted to understand sort of the difference between the service

[53:57] coordinator role and our current and this agreement and the regional access

[54:02] to Howard Center resources which was also explained that one is sort of

[54:06] crisis oriented and one is really an ongoing role in support of um really

[54:12] looking at improved outcomes for individuals who need these services. So

[54:16] I was appreciative of that. Um, the one area I did want to highlight and I

[54:22] wasn't sure if this was accurate, but I want to just reinforce it. There was a

[54:26] note in the background information that there is potential expense for superi

[54:32] supervision through Howard Center and mileage that could total annually about

[54:39] 77,000. Is that accurate? >> Yes. And and I've had conversations

[54:44] specifically about those as well. that is a essentially a worst case scenario.

[54:49] So, uh we will we will have uh input into that. Again, I don't foresee this

[54:54] individual going out into the community very very often. Um so, I don't think

[54:59] mileage will be um or if they do out in the community, we can we can coordinate

[55:03] that through through the police department. Um so, I don't know if I

[55:08] think to answer your question, yes, it is it is potentially accurate. That is a

[55:12] worst case scenario, but I absolutely plan on managing that very very closely.

[55:16] I I don't anticipate those costs being to that level. That

[55:20] » Yeah. And I mean, just for clarity, that's about the same amount that we're

[55:23] funding a position that's an 80% FTE, I believe.

[55:28] » Um, so as we look at sustainable funding going forward based on the success of

[55:32] this program, that will need to be factored in as well. Right.

[55:35] » But I appreciate the clarity on that. Thank you.

[55:37] » Yeah. And and I did um if you looked at uh at one of the first meetings back on

[55:43] June 1st, I did provide the council uh with a uh essentially what we our

[55:51] funding request to use funding and a memo that explained um there was there

[55:56] was money built in for transportation, there was money built in for training,

[55:59] there's money also. So I I'm confident that we can cover that u even in the

[56:05] worst case scenario. But again, I don't anticipate it being there and I will

[56:09] absolutely do everything I can to manage that so it doesn't uh get to that level.

[56:17] » Uh Tim, any comments, questions? >> No, no comments. I support this fully.

[56:24] » As do I. And I just want to note, I think this is an incredibly um creative

[56:30] and really good use of close to threequarters million dollars that the

[56:36] city's getting um because of the opioid settlement. And thank you, Chief, for

[56:43] um thinking this through and using those funds so so wisely for a really great

[56:50] program that um I'm hoping will be really successful. So yeah, thank you.

[56:57] So if there are no more comments or questions, do I have a motion to

[57:03] approve? >> I will move to approve the contract with

[57:06] Howard Center to support a service coordinator.

[57:09] » Do I have a second? >> I will second that motion.

[57:12] » Thank you, Tim. I have a motion and a second. All in favor say I.

[57:15] » I. >> I.

[57:16] » I. >> And it is unanimous and approved. Thank

[57:19] you all.

[57:22] » Thank you, Chief. Thank you, Colin.

[57:27] Okay, we are moving on to item 12. A little bit ahead of schedule. I hope our

[57:34] candidate or states are here. Do we have the schedule of candidates, Jesse?

[57:39] » So, we have two candidates. Um, D uh Theodore is that is here in the room.

[57:45] Um, and then the other candidate Dan was supposed to be here in the room and is

[57:51] not here. So, but we did tell them to come around 7. So,

[57:56] » so Theodore is that Theodore, please come

[58:01] down. >> And um just while Theodore is coming

[58:05] down, I will also note that we do have an executive session planned for the end

[58:08] of your council meeting to talk about the uh candidates to the development

[58:11] review board if you are so interested.

[58:15] » Um so, thank you for coming. Please, please tell us about yourself and why

[58:20] you'd like to be on the DRB. >> Uh, my name is Theodore Isaac Rayson.

[58:25] I'm an undergraduate student and resident of South Burlington. Um, I'm a

[58:30] researcher at the University of Vermont on housing and transportation policy

[58:36] um, in the cities of Burlington, South Burlington, uh, and in variety of cities

[58:42] in the state of Connecticut. Um, I am uniquely, um, qualified, I believe, uh,

[58:49] to help on a development review board due to my knowledge of zoning

[58:52] ordinances, um, and building restrictions, um, in a

[58:56] variety of states and and cities. Um I believe that a younger representation on

[59:03] development review board and in city government in general which is

[59:07] overwhelmingly um uh participated in by people who are

[59:12] of established residency um younger generations are often

[59:16] discounted. Um, and a younger candidate like myself, I believe, uh, would be

[59:22] helpful in in having a unique, uh, view and perhaps a change of pace on a on a

[59:28] review board of such, uh, what is usually associated as very mundane

[59:32] activity. So for my benefit, can you just

[59:37] elaborate just connect for me um the research that

[59:41] you do with the kind of questions and issues that the DRB wrestles with?

[59:48] » Sure.

[59:51] » Oh, it's a tough. Um, in terms of development review, when you're

[59:56] approving and or not approving or sending back proposals and um, it often

[1:00:01] requires um, going through relatively strict and rigorous processes that are

[1:00:07] laid out by somebody who is not yourself, as in you're following the

[1:00:10] laws set out by the government. Um, and you have to be relatively tight within

[1:00:16] those laws. There's some usually room for interpretation, which I think some

[1:00:20] people take to liberties. um as is theirs. Um and my research in particular

[1:00:26] is often about um the existing laws that are in place uh how they are used and

[1:00:32] understanding development at every stage. Um we're speaking

[1:00:36] uh mostly about building housing, right? Let's just say take that as an example

[1:00:40] and using commercial spaces. Um, in most of my research, I'm covering uh

[1:00:47] increases or decreases or policy changes that um work to either um hopefully

[1:00:54] improve the development in certain areas um instead of and make cities more uh

[1:01:00] compatible for uh what usually is transit oriented folks um people of a

[1:01:07] younger generation preparing our cities for the future. Um and often I scour

[1:01:11] through much of development papers of other cities and how things are built.

[1:01:16] Um I am able to um understand what things are within them, what things are

[1:01:21] not within them. And as mostly a byproduct of the research, I've kind of

[1:01:25] become uh very um aware of much of what development review boards deal with. Uh

[1:01:32] usually I'm on the other side of it, but I would be happy to uh to give some time

[1:01:36] to help out my local government. Do you feel um that you so DRB as you

[1:01:44] correctly articulated um kind of works within the constraints of the law and

[1:01:48] has to kind of fairly and objectively with with some discretion apply the law

[1:01:52] to the matter before the DRB. Do you feel that you can kind of do that

[1:01:58] objectively and fairly? >> Um when doing research we always have to

[1:02:03] be fair and objective. There is no partisan partisanship per se. um I am

[1:02:09] very much able to differentiate between law and policy and opinion um which is

[1:02:15] something that I have to do on a daily basis um and it's something I can

[1:02:19] continue to do on development review board without issue.

[1:02:23] » Thank you. Um so I am going to pause for a moment. I'm going to welcome our chair

[1:02:30] and I'm gonna hand over the chair. >> You're doing you're doing a great job.

[1:02:37] I'm trying to get my sea legs back. It's so choppy out there. Three inch waves.

[1:02:45] » Just nowhere. >> Good evening, Theodor. I was listening

[1:02:49] to your conversation just now. Sorry for my tardiness, but I was online the whole

[1:02:54] time with you guys. >> Yeah.

[1:02:56] » Catch your breath, Tim, and ask a question. Um, can you, as you probably

[1:03:01] reviewed some of our ordinances and so forth, you might have had some thoughts

[1:03:05] as to, gee, these are things I'm researching in my education that I'd

[1:03:09] like to see South Burlington consider. Can you give some thoughts or ideas of

[1:03:13] what has occurred to you as you looked at that?

[1:03:16] » U, so I actually just went over with the city attorney. It was something that I

[1:03:20] randomly caught looking over at one of your zoning ordinances or definitions, I

[1:03:25] guess, of um, of your housing types. um in Burlington. I had done a report,

[1:03:32] I would like to say in April, um studying the effects of um the 2024 uh

[1:03:38] zoning changes which made up to four units of housing uh by right on one plot

[1:03:43] of land. Um it added some kind of limits on um lot sizes and setbacks, things

[1:03:50] like this. Um but generally um by right multif well as in multif family housing

[1:03:57] middle housing in particular with multiple entrances usually town homes

[1:04:01] which are vertical partitions um or forms of like multif family so as

[1:04:07] in there are multiple entrances on multiple floors. Um those two types of

[1:04:12] housing have been known to one not um not affect neighborhood character in the

[1:04:18] same way an apartment building might. Um, and you can usually increase

[1:04:22] population density, lower housing costs for renters specifically, and provide um

[1:04:28] a more of a a transit oriented development that can be built there. Um,

[1:04:33] as you have more people living in the same area. Um, there's a multiple

[1:04:39] multitude of studies saying um that the water requirements and um usually waste

[1:04:45] disposal are usually about the same as a single family home. they don't quite

[1:04:49] reflect it if it was up policy that was up to me. Um by right multif family

[1:04:55] housing um on a single plot is very important. Middle housing it's called.

[1:05:02] » I got a couple questions. So you're a grad student.

[1:05:05] » I am an undergraduate. >> Under you're an undergrad student right

[1:05:07] now. Okay. You're So you're now a you senior junior?

[1:05:11] » Yes. >> Senior.

[1:05:13] » Junior. >> You're now a junior. Okay.

[1:05:15] » Second semester. Have you had any chance to attend a DRB meeting? Did I did they

[1:05:20] get asked that question? No. >> No, sir. I was asked by

[1:05:23] » Haven't had a chance yet. Yeah. Do do you know how our review board works at

[1:05:26] all? What process they go through and you know, so like a developer, a real

[1:05:30] estate person or you know, somebody has a plan for a project, right? They bring

[1:05:34] it to the city, they go through planning and zoning. When they finally go to the

[1:05:37] DRB, the first plan is a sketch plan. It has no legal standing. They just get

[1:05:41] feedback from DRB. they go back, rework it, bring it back again, and then it

[1:05:45] goes through um preliminary and then usually final. So, so planning and

[1:05:51] zoning's job is to take all of the details of that application, then run it

[1:05:56] through the LDRs to find out where there are conflicts, you know, or possible,

[1:06:00] you know, needs for evaluation. And then then it that gets that data gets dumped

[1:06:04] on the DRB and then the applicant comes in for a hearing and they they go

[1:06:08] through it line by line every single thing you know this fits this fits this

[1:06:12] doesn't fit right and then they look for feedback from the applicant blah blah

[1:06:15] blah and they try to work out those and then in in a best case right the DRB

[1:06:19] final approves it right and and then eventually the permits in the worst case

[1:06:24] they it gets rejected right and they have to go back and rework on so so

[1:06:28] people in the DRB don't they're not like on the planning commission they don't

[1:06:31] make any rules right? They are quasi judicial, right? So, they're the ones

[1:06:34] that are taking input from planning and zoning and then helping that whole

[1:06:38] process to to tell a developer what what they need to do, right? What standards

[1:06:42] they have to apply to. So, and so my my question is do you go home in the

[1:06:47] summer? >> Um, I was home this summer. I will

[1:06:52] likely not be for the continuing of my education. I will be here in South

[1:06:56] Burlington. Um, and when you had mentioned the back and forth process,

[1:07:01] um, It's usually a lengthy process, but at the end of the day, um is my belief

[1:07:06] that we're here to get things built and and provide them in a in a way that

[1:07:12] is of the least uh kind of inhibit to the people who are trying to develop

[1:07:18] them while they follow the law. But making sure that we're providing helpful

[1:07:22] feedback um instead of just telling people to go back to the drawing board,

[1:07:26] right? um making sure that we can provide that helpful feedback um in how

[1:07:30] to correct certain things. I believe that that's something that I'm I'm able

[1:07:33] to >> So, the question I'm asking is will you

[1:07:35] be able to attend most of the meetings if they're twice a month on on Tuesday

[1:07:38] nights at at 7 o'clock? >> Yes. And I was aware uh that we can also

[1:07:43] use online segments to be able to do that.

[1:07:46] » Yeah. Yep. And and is your summer is that is that in Vermont or is that

[1:07:52] somewhere else? >> I'm originally a resident of the state

[1:07:54] of Connecticut, sir. >> From where? the state of Connecticut,

[1:07:57] sir. >> Connecticut. Okay. Yeah. All right. Um I

[1:08:01] guess no other questions. Yeah. >> But but thank you for applying. I

[1:08:05] appreciate it. >> Thank you. I was approached by um I

[1:08:08] believe Mrs. Beth Ziggman. >> Yeah. Counselor.

[1:08:12] » Thank you. >> Um thank you.

[1:08:15] » Thanks.

[1:08:20] Um, you do have one other candidate, but um, I do not see them in the room or

[1:08:28] online at the moment.

[1:08:34] » And who was that candidate supposed to be?

[1:08:37] » Uh, Dan Conland.

[1:08:43] So, I would keep >> Are we early or

[1:08:46] » We're very early, but we told them to be here early. Yep.

[1:08:49] » Okay. Okay. >> If for some reason they come back on

[1:08:54] before we end the meeting, is that okay if we let them? Okay. Great.

[1:09:00] All right. So, that's the only person we can interview right now. Okay. So, that

[1:09:04] was item 12. Um, and you didn't do 13 yet, right?

[1:09:10] » Correct. Okay. So, let's move on to item 13. An update on rece and received a

[1:09:13] pres presentation from the city staff about plans to locate a low barrier

[1:09:18] shelter in South Burlington. >> Um so, um we wor this agenda item in

[1:09:24] partnership with the Central Vermont Office of Economic Opportunity. Last

[1:09:28] Wednesday, last Wednesday evening, um we received a communication from their

[1:09:32] executive director requesting that we withdraw their presentation from

[1:09:35] tonight's meeting. Um, I made the choice with staff to keep it on the agenda

[1:09:40] tonight as the council had not uh received the council northern committee

[1:09:43] had received um this proposal yet and we thought it was worthwhile to continue to

[1:09:49] present kind of what we had heard, what we had experienced um and how quite

[1:09:54] frankly we hope we can move forward in partnership. Um so while no the council

[1:10:00] has no action to take tonight or with this project overall um we do did

[1:10:07] encourage um the CBOE to engage in in deep community engagement which was the

[1:10:13] purpose of this initial agenda item and we hope coming out of this conversation

[1:10:17] tonight that you will support staff to continue working in partnership with CBO

[1:10:23] CHT our municipal partners the state um to best serve all of our neighbors in

[1:10:29] South Burlington. So, a little history about the staff

[1:10:32] conversation related to uh a low barrier or or any shelter in South Burlington.

[1:10:39] So, in May, uh staff met with CVOE and uh Champlne Housing Trust, CHT to

[1:10:46] discuss generally the concept of a shelter in Jenning County. At that

[1:10:50] point, there were many locations being discussed. Um and we talked about more

[1:10:55] the concept generally than specific locations. Um as a followup uh we met

[1:11:00] with at CBOE's request met with them on August 24th a couple weeks ago where

[1:11:04] they laid out these specific plans for 1717 Williston Road. At that meeting uh

[1:11:10] myself, the two public safety chiefs, the deputy city manager were there and

[1:11:15] reviewed with them some of the concerns that we laid out in the impact memo

[1:11:19] that's included in your presentation tonight.

[1:11:22] Um we also recommended that they engage in deep um community engagement around

[1:11:27] locating um such a shelter in our community and tonight's conversation was

[1:11:31] to be the start of that community engagement.

[1:11:34] Um so as we as we state in our impact memo um the housing crisis in Vermont

[1:11:40] continues to leave our most vulnerable neighbors behind. Um, however, we're not

[1:11:45] convinced that this 100 bed shelter as currently proposed um enhances the

[1:11:50] service or options for our most vulnerable neighbors. Um, however, we

[1:11:54] would certainly we as staff would certainly appreciate your support to

[1:11:58] continue to discuss other options with CHT, CBO, our regional municipal

[1:12:04] partners, our service provider partners, and the state of Vermont. Um so that is

[1:12:09] what we are and we are happy to answer any questions um you may have of our

[1:12:13] conversations with CBOE um

[1:12:17] uh but we would love your support to continue working in partnership with

[1:12:21] them. Jesse, personally, I think um you and

[1:12:27] your staff have done a really good job communicating on this. Um and I kind of

[1:12:33] share your perspective as evidenced by the the questions that you articulated

[1:12:38] um as to the size of facility and the location of facility. And I hope that we

[1:12:42] can continue um working with CVO to um ensure that we have facilities that are

[1:12:51] both right sized and also in the in the right place. And so I I look forward to

[1:12:56] that conversation.

[1:13:01] Elizabeth, >> I I think speaking for myself, I know I

[1:13:03] had prepared for the presentation, the conversation tonight, so I was surprised

[1:13:09] to read in the media that um uh the proposal was being pulled. Um I think

[1:13:16] staff has asked excellent questions. I know there's probably other questions I

[1:13:21] know council may have and the community may have. And um I'd welcome the

[1:13:27] opportunity to um continue to support staff in having conversations. I share

[1:13:32] Andrew's um thoughts around uh you know location right sizing and I think as we

[1:13:41] discussed earlier this evening really what a clear understanding of the

[1:13:46] mission whether it's sort of crisis focused um or as we just finished a

[1:13:51] previous discussion or connecting individuals to services that really um

[1:13:57] lift individuals out of different situations whether domestic violence or

[1:14:03] uh drug and alcohol addiction, homelessness and so forth. Um so Jesse,

[1:14:08] I do support any ongoing conversations. Um and I I would hope in that process uh

[1:14:16] particularly based on CBOS and CHT's experiences that they are bringing the

[1:14:23] um responses to what would seem to be really normal concerns that do affect um

[1:14:31] staffing and budgetary considerations at a local level. And I feel like this is

[1:14:36] something we all need to know. >> Thank you, Elizabeth. I agree. 100%. Um,

[1:14:42] this is an interesting proposal and I think staff has done their due diligence

[1:14:47] as far as they can to ask a lot of questions because there are implications

[1:14:52] for for our city uh if this were to move forward and those questions need good

[1:14:58] answers. Um, and I just want to remind everybody that South Burlington has

[1:15:02] committed itself in the past to supporting uh a lot of affordable

[1:15:07] housing. Uh to to name just a few, the two Summit buildings on Kennedy Drive,

[1:15:12] the Odell Apartments on Ferrell Street, the Garden Street Apartments right here

[1:15:16] on Market Street, the Brayburn Converted Motel on Willist Road, um also the Hoham

[1:15:22] Motel next to Panera on Shurn Road, as well as uh the Dorset Commons on Dorset

[1:15:27] Street. So this city definitely supports uh the construction or redevelopment of

[1:15:33] properties into affordable housing which should be part of that path where we

[1:15:38] have such a problem with homelessness that eventually people get residents or

[1:15:42] or get apartments or something in some kind of living situation that they need.

[1:15:47] So, um, I'd like to see this conversation continue, um, as long as we

[1:15:53] understand what those implications are for our services and for the for the

[1:15:58] people use the shelter itself because they're pretty far from what their

[1:16:02] services are today. So, thank you. >> Take comments.

[1:16:07] » Any comments from the public? Oh, anybody on the line?

[1:16:14] I don't see any. All right. All right. Well, so we'll look forward to hearing

[1:16:18] about this in the future for their future meetings and Okay, great. Thank

[1:16:22] you, Jesse. Um, uh, let's go to item 14, which is

[1:16:26] discuss and possibly approve the FY28 budget schedule with Martha Machar, our

[1:16:32] finance director. Come on down.

[1:16:42] » Good evening, Martha.

[1:16:48] Is it that time already again? Didn't we just do this like six, five months ago?

[1:16:54] » Vote on a schedule. >> This is the time of year where Martha is

[1:16:57] hardcore living in three fiscal years. So, she's wrapping up.

[1:17:01] » She's wrapping up FY26, administering 27, and planning for 28 all at the same

[1:17:06] time. >> Well, that's good because planning is

[1:17:08] what we should be doing at this point, right?

[1:17:10] » Great time of the year. So before you was just the beginning of FY28 budget

[1:17:16] process. So it is the outline of the staff uh process of how to put the

[1:17:23] budget together and when the information of the budget will be presented to you.

[1:17:28] A lot of information is about the same as we have done in the past and we have

[1:17:33] I think the last two budget cycle where we've prepared the working session with

[1:17:39] the council for the budget. This year we're doing it on a Wednesday, December

[1:17:43] 16. So hopefully that day work for you all. And um so on the budget schedule, I

[1:17:50] think the next time we come to talk to you about the budget process, goal

[1:17:54] setting on this schedule, it currently is September 21st. So we'll change that

[1:18:00] to September 22nd uh as said earlier by the city manager.

[1:18:06] And I think those are the two highlight that I wanted to highlight for you. Oh,

[1:18:12] and we are also keeping uh the listening session for the community. We will do

[1:18:17] the online survey and have an actual listening session where anyone who want

[1:18:23] to come in or either filled out the online not filled out the online would

[1:18:28] have the opportunity to come talk to you.

[1:18:33] One other thing if I can just highlight um we are proposing um in the past

[1:18:37] couple of years we've done a day budget meeting with the leadership team and the

[1:18:41] council um and we are proposing December 16th for that. It's a Wednesday for that

[1:18:46] meeting. We planned it around um one of your schedules. So we're hoping that

[1:18:50] that works for the rest of you if you are available.

[1:18:54] » Starting at 9. What time? Okay. Will there be lunch? Oh,

[1:18:59] » and I I don't know if you mentioned this, Mark, but the um close out and the

[1:19:04] FY28 goal setting is moving to the 22nd. Correct.

[1:19:08] » That's correct. >> And did I see in the schedule that is is

[1:19:11] this the first year that everybody will be using the same software to submit

[1:19:15] their budget proposals or is is that they used it last year, right?

[1:19:19] » Uh no, it was not used last year. In the past, we've used a spreadsheet and this

[1:19:23] year is the first year we're using our new finance software. Okay. And is there

[1:19:28] training involved or needed for that beforehand or they have they already

[1:19:31] been trained? >> There have been some training and there

[1:19:34] is going to be a lot of training as this is the new time first time everybody's

[1:19:39] using the system >> and and do we think that this will

[1:19:42] improve uh the speed with which people I mean is it an efficiency improvement to

[1:19:47] use this new software for this purpose? >> It is a big efficiency problem for the

[1:19:51] departments and for the finance team. So it's not like a bunch of separate Excel

[1:19:56] spreadsheets that have to be recombined and

[1:19:59] » Yeah. So to give Martha a huge amount of credit, our budgets have been accurate

[1:20:03] for the last five years I've been here based on probably

[1:20:07] I don't know 17 to 27 individual Excel spreadsheets that are merged together.

[1:20:12] So it is it's not only more time time um efficient, it's also limiting liability

[1:20:18] of human error of formula glitches, things like that. It will be it's a huge

[1:20:24] improvement, >> right?

[1:20:27] Any comments from council? Anybody online? Anybody in the house?

[1:20:32] » You need a motion for this to >> approve the schedule? Do

[1:20:35] » I have a motion? >> I move to approve the fiscal year 28

[1:20:40] budget schedule as presented. >> I'll second that.

[1:20:44] » We have a motion in a second. Any other discussion? All those in favor say I. I.

[1:20:48] » I. It is unanimous. >> Thank you.

[1:20:51] » Thank you, Martha.

[1:20:55] And you've already done 15, right? >> We have not.

[1:20:58] » No, you did. You did 16. Okay. All right. Good. So, now we're on to 15,

[1:21:02] which is discuss and possibly approve a process to develop a 2027 legislative

[1:21:08] agenda with Jesse Baker, city manager. Nicholas Stley Castro, deputy city

[1:21:12] manager. >> Um, yes. So, I'm going to give a high

[1:21:14] level overview. Nicholas has been through a process like this before. Um,

[1:21:18] so he is his fingerprints are all over this as well. So I'll um give him some

[1:21:22] air time. Um but uh so both in our city plan, we have a goal of being um a

[1:21:28] collaborative and engaged leader community and working at this regional

[1:21:32] and statewide level. Additionally, in your FY27 policies and strategies, we

[1:21:36] talked specifically about taking a more active role in developing an advocacy

[1:21:40] agenda. So as we approach the beginning of the bianium um we are recommending a

[1:21:46] um uh process to develop that legislative agenda in partnership

[1:21:51] between the leadership team and the council and our state delegation um to

[1:21:55] better ensure that our interests are aligned and well represented that we are

[1:21:59] making strategic um decisions to influence um items that might be moving

[1:22:04] through the legislature and providing a consistent framework. Um, we've laid out

[1:22:10] a process schedule here for you to consider it consider that would result

[1:22:15] in the council approving um a legislative agenda in November that gets

[1:22:20] it into our delegation's hands before um the beginning of December, which is

[1:22:25] really when things are due for bill writing. Nicholas, do you want to add

[1:22:30] anything from your experience in this?

[1:22:33] » Um, thank thanks Jesse. I would add that um noted in the memo but really

[1:22:38] important um the speaking with one voice in this is really critical at the

[1:22:43] capital. So um highlighted here that the value of of um coming to agreement on

[1:22:48] what these priorities are so that we can go and we can be more successful and

[1:22:52] effective if if we are speaking with one voice. The other thing I would mention

[1:22:56] um as you think about the ideas is more specific is better. Um I think coming to

[1:23:01] legislators with the the thematic u priorities is nice but giving them a

[1:23:07] specific solution um is more likely to be successful and better for us uh in

[1:23:12] the long run. So I think as you think about the things that you'd like to be

[1:23:16] uh considered in this agenda, the more specific the more effective

[1:23:22] » and the hope would be to develop the agenda and then um identify key folks

[1:23:27] who would be kind of the leads on the strategic request throughout the term.

[1:23:31] So we could use our advocacy partners to help build track but also know who to

[1:23:38] tap in because those requests usually come very quickly. um and be ready and

[1:23:42] nimble for those responses.

[1:23:46] » And we we've discussed before, I think, how um you having a real deputy city

[1:23:52] manager full-time now kind of frees you up a little bit to pursue some of those

[1:23:56] those state uh initiatives, right? Where we would like to have more u influence,

[1:24:04] right, in peer. So that's a good thing. >> It's a good thing. I I Steve was a real

[1:24:10] deputy. >> He was he was h I mean he was also the

[1:24:13] fire chief. I mean it's it's tough to do you know

[1:24:15] » we have a full-time Nicholas who is great and brings a lot of very specific

[1:24:20] city manager expertise to the table. So we have a we have more capacity to be

[1:24:23] able to do this. We also have a very strong across the board leadership team

[1:24:27] who are often in the legislature testifying. So to be more transparent

[1:24:32] with all of you about what they're working on and give them more guidance

[1:24:35] of you know how we can leverage the unique voice that the five of you do

[1:24:39] have at the legisle. I think we we really have a moment of opportunity to

[1:24:42] be a lot more strategic. >> There you go.

[1:24:46] » Um I noted on here sort of now to midocctober is solicit advocacy ideas

[1:24:51] from both leadership team and individual city councils. Do you how do you want to

[1:24:56] do that? Is it the way we do priorities and policies or one-on-one meetings,

[1:25:02] something like that? >> Um, I think we're flexible about how you

[1:25:06] would like to share that information. >> I think Nicholas, to your point, I think

[1:25:12] the specificity is I I'll speak for myself. I will would like some support

[1:25:19] on the specificity side of it.

[1:25:24] » Any comments, Andrew? I love this.

[1:25:27] » There you go. There you go. >> Highly anticipated.

[1:25:30] » No action needed. Just advice. >> Well, so if if you are on board with

[1:25:34] this approach, what I would recommend is you um generally kind of motion to

[1:25:38] support this approach. I also um it is our interest to have an initial meeting

[1:25:44] with the delegation um early in this process so we can make sure we're giving

[1:25:48] them something that will be useful down the road. And I think it would be worth

[1:25:52] having two counselors participate in that delegation meeting. Um, councelor

[1:25:56] Sigman did email us today or sometime in the last few days um, indicating that

[1:26:01] she would like to be one of those two counselors, but it is up to you.

[1:26:04] However, I think if with your approval, we will start trying to schedule that

[1:26:09] meeting >> um,

[1:26:11] » after November 3rd. >> No, no, no. This would be a meeting like

[1:26:14] in early in September, early October. So, we can we can craft something that's

[1:26:19] that they're going to be >> not not with the legislators though.

[1:26:22] Yeah, >> that would be after.

[1:26:23] » Well, both. That would be Yeah. >> I'd love to do it.

[1:26:29] » I'd like to do it, too, but you know. >> So, how many people who you you who who

[1:26:33] else >> you you did you expressed interest,

[1:26:36] right? >> Well, I I think there's going to be a

[1:26:39] lot of interest because there's been interest on the full council and I note

[1:26:42] that House Representative Maner is online, too. So,

[1:26:46] » look at that. >> Yeah. Thank you for listening, Brian. Um

[1:26:51] I I think if we're talking about a preliminary meeting with House or with

[1:26:55] our representatives and are Oh, sorry. Um I think if you're talking about a

[1:26:59] preliminary meeting with um representatives and then bringing it

[1:27:03] back or having opportunities for full counsel to provide guidance, that's that

[1:27:09] would be appropriate. >> Sounds good.

[1:27:16] » So, let us do it and bring back what we're hearing. Is that what you're

[1:27:21] » I think it's okay to have representation. Um

[1:27:24] » yeah, it I just don't think it can completely guide an agenda because there

[1:27:30] may be other things that Tim's interested in that Lori's interested in

[1:27:33] myself that somehow need all of us need to have that input.

[1:27:37] » Otherwise, we'll have to do another half day of legislative priorities and and

[1:27:41] » we're going to be specific, strategic, and brief.

[1:27:44] » Oh, there you go. Brief. Okay. Yeah. More red dots.

[1:27:48] green dots. So, well, you need a motion then.

[1:27:53] » I would. Yes. >> You want to create a motion?

[1:27:58] » Yeah. I will make a motion to approve the legislative adequacity process as

[1:28:02] proposed. >> Do you maybe want to ask if others have

[1:28:07] comments? >> Anybody in the room have a comment? Oh,

[1:28:11] here comes somebody down. We have a commenter.

[1:28:15] This is my my my co-sailor today. >> Um I I would just remind you that there

[1:28:23] is an election on November 3rd and your three senators all have um competition

[1:28:32] and um at least one of the five sitting house members do. So to figure out how

[1:28:40] to have meetings without perhaps

[1:28:46] um putting the impression forward that the council

[1:28:51] only supports certain people. Caution. Caution.

[1:28:57] » That's why I kept saying November 3rd.

[1:29:03] So I think that you know that that is a a

[1:29:07] um in our statewide legislative process that that happens every two

[1:29:12] years at the beginning of a bianium. So agreed and um we could also frame it

[1:29:18] from the context of this you know these are elected officials who have history

[1:29:21] in our community whether they are future Nicholas. Yeah, and I would just uh to

[1:29:26] that point, we we were cognizant of it. The the September timeline task talks

[1:29:32] about meeting with the current delegation. So, we we acknowledge that

[1:29:36] there's an election that that could change that, but I think talking with

[1:29:39] the current delegation also is informative because they have they have

[1:29:42] a history in the building and u and and familiarity with the issues. Um but we

[1:29:46] we acknowledge that that the meeting with the current delegation could become

[1:29:49] a different meeting after November 3rd. Good.

[1:29:55] So, we had a motion, but do we have a second?

[1:29:57] » Second. >> Okay. So, any other discussion? All

[1:30:01] those in favor say I. >> I.

[1:30:02] » I. It is unanimous. Thank you very much. >> So, would you like to tell me who to

[1:30:08] include in that initial scheduling or would you like me to try and find times

[1:30:12] that meet for as many people as possible and by by that process identify the two

[1:30:17] that will come forward? >> Yeah. Thank

[1:30:21] good. Jesse to schedule

[1:30:24] » survey monkey. >> All right. So that was uh item 15. Now

[1:30:31] we are at item 18 correct which is review the significant agenda topics for

[1:30:37] the council September 21st 2026 council meeting.

[1:30:44] Um so scrolling down. Uh so 22nd meeting will include the East Harris residents

[1:30:54] um presenting their concerns to you. Um you'll also receive the FY26 year end

[1:31:00] projections as we close out that fiscal year and kick off the FY28 budget

[1:31:05] process. Um in that you will receive the projections from us and establish goals

[1:31:10] for your FY28 budget. Um the FY27 policies and strategies report is since

[1:31:16] this was published moving to the uh next meeting October 5th. So that will not be

[1:31:20] on your September 2nd 22nd meeting. >> And let me just correct myself on item

[1:31:25] 18 that council meeting would be September 22nd.

[1:31:28] » Yes. >> Okay. So just that we're all

[1:31:30] » Jesse for item one. I guess what I was hoping um in addition because we have

[1:31:34] heard from them is that um our staff would describe to the

[1:31:41] residents the the process and then help the residents understand how the

[1:31:47] concerns that they're raising are evaluated through that process

[1:31:52] and then maybe you also address you know if there are potential

[1:31:58] updates to the process you know I mean the process may not be Maybe maybe

[1:32:02] right. Um and then I also would hope that then we the council would explain

[1:32:06] to the residents kind of our role right in really setting the the policy but not

[1:32:14] hands-on with with implementation for every street in the city.

[1:32:19] » Yes, I think that was our intention to provide kind of our you know staff have

[1:32:24] spent a fair amount of time on East Terrace to date um both public safety

[1:32:27] and public works. Um, so talk about what we've done to date and where we might go

[1:32:30] in the future. >> Thanks.

[1:32:35] Anything else on that though? >> Nope.

[1:32:36] » Okay, moving on to item 19, which is other business. Is there any other

[1:32:42] business tonight? Um, I do have two items that um I I don't know if they've

[1:32:48] actually come up in previous meetings, but I would like council to consider

[1:32:52] adding to future agendas and would uh obviously like the full council

[1:32:57] available. Um but one I had sent a note out um as I was not able to attend the

[1:33:02] last meeting about um kind of a discussion of process improvement

[1:33:08] opportunities for kind of high value high visibility projects like Bartlett

[1:33:13] Bay potentially the bike pred bed the bike ped bridge and the tip district um

[1:33:20] and having a discussion about um really looking at um

[1:33:28] an like an afteraction report. It it may have elements to it that are different,

[1:33:32] but some of it's afteraction, some of it is understanding cost and scope

[1:33:37] reconciliation. Um and some of it might segregate um

[1:33:43] unforeseeable from unanticipated um expenses associated with projects.

[1:33:48] that it it and this is really separate of the budget but kind of it might

[1:33:54] impact policy discussion on capital project funding, cost control and

[1:33:58] transparency. So that's a general topic. I think there may be other counselors

[1:34:03] interested in discussing or having the opportunity to discuss and those are

[1:34:08] three high visibility projects that um might fit the bill for monitoring those

[1:34:14] in some way. Um, and then the other area is really around I don't I wouldn't call

[1:34:20] it necessarily standardized communication, but I I have run into

[1:34:24] situations over the past particularly maybe over the past six months that um

[1:34:30] there does not seem to be a either a standard or an expected way to respond

[1:34:36] to largely to residents that send notes to the full council and how they get

[1:34:42] responded to. um even if it's simply a we are in receipt of your message and

[1:34:47] have forwarded it to a st staff member something but it might include um media

[1:34:53] requests as well but just something around communication expectations

[1:34:58] um because I do feel like there are gaps that some people get responses and some

[1:35:03] don't and some might get them in a timely manner and some might not and I

[1:35:09] don't think we even know necessarily who's responded from council to

[1:35:14] individuals because it would violate meeting law if we start to have a

[1:35:18] conversation online. Um, but those would be two topics that might be helpful at

[1:35:23] some point to have on a future agenda. >> Thanks, Elizabeth.

[1:35:29] Um, >> do I do I need to I I don't know with a

[1:35:32] small group, do I need to make that motion or c could we bring those forward

[1:35:36] and have a discussion where we are full a full counsel?

[1:35:39] » So, you got two suggestions. One is on >> kind of communication expectations

[1:35:43] » monitoring for large highv value projects or process.

[1:35:46] » It's afteraction and monitoring of high value high visibility projects capital

[1:35:51] projects. >> So like a city reporting you know agenda

[1:35:55] item on high value projects to >> I think it's I'm really proposing

[1:36:00] » have that discussion to talk about what what you want to have. Okay. Yeah. Um

[1:36:06] and then the other one was expectations on on how the council

[1:36:10] replies to full council email, you know, get from residents or from whomever.

[1:36:15] Right. >> Yes.

[1:36:16] » Yeah. That's sometimes that's hit or miss, right? Some one of us reply, but

[1:36:20] we won't reply all and you don't know if the other person's replied at all and

[1:36:23] sometimes Jesse just jumps right in and then fixes the whole thing. Right.

[1:36:28] » True. That is true. >> So, but yeah. So, yeah. The second one I

[1:36:33] I mean I guess I support both. It would be I don't know how we should have a

[1:36:37] discussion about what do you want to report on

[1:36:39] » and then how how do we you know >> and that's where I think the we benefit

[1:36:43] from the full council >> full council.

[1:36:47] » Anything Andrew I don't have any other business. Um item

[1:36:53] 20 is consider entering an executive session pursuant to 1BSA 313 A3 for the

[1:36:58] purposes of discussing appointments of the development review board. We only

[1:37:00] heard from one candidate. We haven't heard from the other candidate. Should

[1:37:03] we wait to try and reschedule that before we were to go into executive

[1:37:06] session? >> Okay.

[1:37:08] » I I really want to hear from the other candidate. Is that okay?

[1:37:13] » Well, unusual. They didn't show up. Who knows? We should find out why. Maybe

[1:37:18] there's a reason why. Maybe they were stuck on a boat in the middle of the

[1:37:20] lake and they their phone ran out. >> Okay,

[1:37:24] that's all I know for now. So, but other do um and we when are are applications

[1:37:31] closed at this point? Are they still they're fully closed? Yeah.

[1:37:35] I I asked several people I know especially through colleagues at work

[1:37:38] that live in South B. I just like grabbed them. I said, "Please, please

[1:37:42] find me a DRBs person." And they're like, "I don't want to do it." You know,

[1:37:46] like I described to them in length how great it is. And they still said they

[1:37:50] didn't want to do it. I don't know why. So,

[1:37:55] » so do you want to do executive session on the 22nd?

[1:37:59] » Yeah. As long as we have at least another

[1:38:02] candidate or one way or the other. I >> I think I'd say if the candidate has a

[1:38:06] really good excuse, but if the person just didn't show up, right,

[1:38:09] » I don't think we should consider him or her.

[1:38:12] » Yeah, >> that's because I mean that would be

[1:38:15] Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:38:16] » Would you be able to find out? Okay. >> Great.

[1:38:20] Yeah. >> Okay.

[1:38:22] Um item 21 which is adjourn. >> Motion to adjurnn.

[1:38:27] » Second. >> All those in favor say I.

[1:38:29] » I. >> All right. We are journ. Thank you very

[1:38:31] much. Thanks everybody online for attending. We'll see you on the 22nd,

[1:38:35] not the 21st. It's a day later. Thanks.

[1:38:57] Hey, hey, hey.

South Burlington City Council - 9/8/2026

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