[4:07] All right, good evening everybody. It is uh 5:31. This is the pre-aggenda meeting

[4:11] for the Time Spencer Board of Alderman for our upcoming regular meeting next

[4:17] Tuesday night. So, this is uh our June 5th pre-aggenda meeting. We're called to

[4:21] order. We have um um all but two of our members present this evening and then

[4:27] this lady is uh battled some back problems tonight. So her in our prayers

[4:34] um and not sure about so hopefully she's okay. We will go ahead and start with an

[4:39] invocation and the pledge of allegiance. So if you will, we'll start with an

[4:42] invocation. Father God, we thank you very much for nourishing rain that we've

[4:47] seen today. We thank you for all that is going on in our town, progress that's

[4:52] being made. We thank you for uh the folks that are here tonight. We look

[4:57] forward to hearing from them. We ask that you be with us as we consider uh

[5:02] things like our upcoming budget for the next fiscal year. We thank you for the

[5:06] staff that have put countless hours into working to prepare this. And we ask you

[5:11] give wisdom, guidance, and discernment to our board as we can this budget over

[5:17] the uh over the next week. And we ask you all those that work within our town,

[5:23] keep them safe in their daily daily work. And I hope them that they continue

[5:28] the work to the betterment of all of our citizens and businesses. Amen. Please

[5:33] rise for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

[5:39] United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one

[5:45] nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[5:54] Right. So, board, we have a couple things going on this evening. Um the

[5:59] first will be a public hearing for our proposed budget for fiscal year 2025 and

[6:05] 2026. Uh we then also have um one budget ordinance to consider this evening. And

[6:11] then finally, we will review the agenda and set that agenda um in preparation

[6:17] for next Tuesday's regular meeting. All right, Mr.

[6:22] anything you need to be aware of before we get ready to move into the initial

[6:27] budget discussion? Yes, sir. Okay. Very good. Uh we will go

[6:32] ahead and move into item three on our pre-agenda meeting um agenda for the

[6:38] public hearing for the upcoming uh 2025 2026 uh budget year. Mr. Granstein will

[6:44] open for you and some initial comments. Well, thank you very much mayor and

[6:49] members of the board. As you know, the recommended budget was provided a few

[6:54] weeks ago. The recommended budget this year

[6:59] totals just about $5 million. It represents overall a 13% decrease from

[7:05] the current year budget and in the general fund a 7% decrease. This was a

[7:11] particularly challenging budget where we are not uh able to do all the things

[7:17] that we want to do and we're working as hard as we can to make the best of it

[7:21] while looking forward to uh the growth that we know is on the horizon. And uh

[7:27] there were a variety of questions and discussion points that we had during uh

[7:32] the recommendation a few weeks back. We have some additional information that

[7:36] can be provided. I don't know if you want to go through any of that now or or

[7:41] kind of wait until we are on the other side

[7:44] of any public comments we may receive and then we can go through that. But

[7:49] pleasure of the board.

[7:53] Okay, I think that would be good. That way uh if there's any clarification or

[7:57] anything like that would be helpful. All right. All right. So, we

[8:03] will now officially open the public hearing for the proposed fiscal year

[8:06] budget. We have three individuals signed up to speak this evening. Is there

[8:11] anyone else before we begin that wishes to sign up to speak this evening that

[8:15] hasn't signed up? All right. We'll uh invite Miss Leslie Calbert forward. Uh

[8:21] as a reminder for folks, as you do come forward, please state your name and

[8:24] address for the record. You will have three minutes for public comment. We

[8:27] have a timer up on the screens um so that you'll be able to see that.

[8:32] And I'll get that up here in a moment. I timed it at home. I just had to talk

[8:38] fast. Perfect. All right. You No, let me get my last

[8:44] sentence, please.

[8:49] My name is Wesley Talbert. I live at 308 North Salsbury Avenue. I have been a

[8:54] resident here since 2017. And I want to talk about the

[8:58] budget and I know that it's a struggle and you work very hard on it. And I I

[9:03] just ask you to consider these things going forward. Keep them in your mind

[9:07] all year long. Um I've heard recently people say, "Oh, Spencer's going to be

[9:12] the next Canab. It's a lovely town. I didn't. that if I wanted to live in

[9:16] Canapapolis, I would have bought there. I chose Spencer because of its history,

[9:22] its character, and its community that embodies resilience and

[9:30] hope because they held on in tough times believing and trusting that better times

[9:35] would be coming. They held on their generation.

[9:40] It was that palpable faith in the future and their unique character that drew me

[9:45] to Spencer. I bought here in 2017 and since

[9:50] then the appraised value of my house has increased 67% and all I did was put

[9:54] paint on it and my tax in home insurance has

[9:58] doubled. Our incomes are not keeping pace with the assessments.

[10:04] Families that have held on here for generations are being priced out of a

[10:09] town that they fought to keep alive. It's not

[10:13] right. They are being replaced by landlords and new investors who care

[10:18] nothing about our past or our future only in the now. And I can speak to that

[10:23] question. We relied on you to grow Spencer wisely

[10:27] to protect and improve our current residents lives and property while

[10:32] judiciously adding to our infrastructure and bringing us new

[10:36] residents. You all tell us of the grant grant money for new expansions for

[10:42] Spencer and to drawing new residents, but where is the grant money or the

[10:46] bonds or etc the funding for the families that held on? We need to build

[10:52] on our strengths and our small town character and values and measure that

[10:56] against the new growth. Our locals are struggling to hang on. How much longer

[11:01] can you ask them to hang on without your support or at least giving them a bonus?

[11:08] I implore you take another look at the current budget and any future

[11:12] expenditures and avoid rate increases and invest in something anything that

[11:17] our longtime residents need i.e. roads, sidewalks, and possible some kind

[11:25] of funding for uh economically depressed incomes. I think I did

[11:33] it. The park is nice and I love the idea, but it's not was not on the not

[11:39] this park, but the park scand. It's not costing us anything, but

[11:44] we still had to raise funds. handing our historic commercial district

[11:49] homes over to we've got to bring in we need streets and sidewalks to sell those

[11:55] homes and that is part of our unique character. So I implore please consider

[12:01] Thank you M. All right, next we have uh Greg

[12:06] Bennett.

[12:17] Hi, my name is Greg Bennett. I live at 406 South Hudson Avenue and I've been

[12:22] here since 2014. I don't have a speech and I agree

[12:26] with just about everything the lady said before uh I got up here. Um, the thing

[12:33] that's stood out to me, I get the salary vote and every municipality in this

[12:41] county has kept their taxes the same whereas Spencer is the only one that's

[12:47] raising its tax and that concerns me. I'm retired. I'm on a fixed income and

[12:54] my taxes went up 62% from 2022 to 2023, which is a significant

[13:03] amount. Um, I plan on living here until I pass

[13:08] away. Uh, the value of my house has very little meaning to me other than, you

[13:13] know, what my heirs may get for it, and that's not going to benefit me in any

[13:18] way. But I'd like to see some control on the property taxes

[13:24] town. Um, I've compared property taxes to other municipalities in this county.

[13:31] Um, salt area is by far the highest, but we're second

[13:37] highest and there's municipalities that are much bigger or at least bigger than

[13:42] we are um whose tax rates are not as significant as

[13:47] ours. So, I'd like to see some curve put on um what our expenditures are in the

[13:53] future uh particularly in the in the upcoming budget for those of us that

[14:00] really can't afford much of a tax increase seeing as uh our economy looks

[14:05] like it's on the downturn to begin with. So that's all I have to say. Thank you.

[14:09] Thank you.

[14:13] All right. Next is Carla Gray.

[14:19] Hey there. My name is Carla Gray. I live at 211 North and I have lived in center

[14:24] for 22 and a half years. Um I don't really have anything prepared, but I do

[14:29] have concerns about the budget. I took extra time this afternoon and actually

[14:33] read the whole thing and I have a number of questions. Um I know that you can't

[14:38] answer back right now, but I would appreciate an answer to these um because

[14:43] they are important questions. I first want to start by echoing I like

[14:47] everybody else have had a increase in my property tax. Um, you know, we had

[14:54] Joanne and then Spencer and then the little vehicle tax cut and now another

[14:59] increase and we're really not seeing a lot of of benefits from those tax

[15:03] increases. Um, it the roads, sidewalks, I'm not even going to bemoone all of

[15:08] those things, but there are some concerns I have and I'd like again to

[15:14] hopefully get an answer to these. One of the other things that I really want to

[15:17] point out, I understand that this is a decrease in the budget, but I also want

[15:20] to point out to Everybody, I know that y'all are aware

[15:24] of this that a lot of that decrease is not a real decrease. It's ARPA funding

[15:30] decrease. And so there's a big difference in what the budget was

[15:35] precoid and before ARPA funding and then the funding that was was gotten for this

[15:42] town through ARPA and expended and where we're at now. So that's that's kind of a

[15:48] false narrative to say that we've had a really big decrease in the budget. ARPA

[15:52] funding was never intended to be permanent. So it's a false narrative.

[15:56] But my questions are really why um is there the move for code enforcement to

[16:02] go to the police department? You know, I think that a lot

[16:06] of us have had issues and had questions about code enforcement as it has been um

[16:12] lacking. Um, but why is it going to the police department? Obviously, we have a

[16:17] lot of police. So, why is that happening? Why is the resource officer

[16:23] positions no longer going to be dedicated? Um, there's over $200,000

[16:28] when you look at the combined uh different budget or there's over

[16:33] $200,000 in in contracted services. What are those contracted services for? Uh

[16:40] and then my last one really is just a general question which is more of a for

[16:45] me kind of an understanding of where the budget is aligning. Um it you've got

[16:50] administratively that the this new park position is going to be under the

[16:55] administrative organization yet the funding is out of out of uh public works

[17:00] and that's just a clarification that I have. Again I understand that this is

[17:04] difficult task and I appreciate that. Um, I would like to see the budget

[17:09] really reviewed as a baseline budget, not a budget that is now without proper

[17:16] funding. That's it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.

[17:20] All right, that's all we have signed up this evening. And so with that, is there

[17:25] a motion to close the public hearing? Move to close. All right. Motion to

[17:31] close public hearing. Is there second by Mr. Muhamad? All in

[17:36] favor? All right. All opposed. All right. Public hearing is now closed and

[17:41] we will then open it up for any discussion or questions uh from the

[17:45] board and manager.

[17:54] Well, okay. So, um I just want to provide a little

[17:58] context um because I know there has been a ton of work that's gone in. I think

[18:03] our citizens acknowledge that. I think we also recognize that the tax burden

[18:08] ultimately falls to our citizens and um we do hear you and we recognize that

[18:14] when these tax increases are proposed, they impact all of us. Um those of us

[18:20] sitting up here, we live in town too and they impact us similarly. Um I think the

[18:26] other thing too that we need to recognize is that they do impact

[18:29] different people in our community more so than some more so than others. Um and

[18:33] we are very cognizant of that. Um I also want to reiterate that our staff is

[18:38] cognizant of that too. So it's not like that is not considered in the budgeting

[18:43] process or um we do recognize that we have to live within our means. Um, one

[18:49] of the things I heard um, from one of the speakers that, you know, I want to

[18:54] reiterate, we do recognize that we want to maintain the charm of the small town

[18:59] character that the town of Spencer has, but we also recognize that as a

[19:05] municipality, if you're not growing, you're dying. Um, and so there has to be

[19:09] some balanced growth to that. And that has been our goal and our strategy to

[19:13] make sure that we have that balanced growth to where we are bringing new

[19:16] folks into our community. Uh that we are promoting new businesses, new

[19:21] industries, things like that, but that we're doing so with minimal impact to

[19:25] the character of our town and ultimately minimal impact to the citizens that have

[19:31] have lived here, whether it be for four years or whether it be for 22 years or

[19:35] more. Um the challenge that we face is we're in a very interesting spot right

[19:42] now. Um those of you who know alluded to the situation with the economy, but

[19:47] we've been very fortunate in the past several years with a good economy that

[19:50] we've attracted a lot of attention from folks like developers and things like

[19:54] that. And we have lots of projects like that on the edges of our town that have

[19:59] recently annexed and come into our town. Um, and a lot of those are larger

[20:05] industries and things like that, but cost to serve is actually going to be

[20:08] lower than residential development. That's a good thing. Um, some may say

[20:13] it's not, but for the longevity of our town, it is a good thing. And for a tax

[20:17] rate, it's a good thing. And so for our individual citizens, when it comes to

[20:21] your tax bill, that's a good thing. That good thing has not happened yet. And I

[20:26] think we all realize that, but we see signs of it. We see the truck stop

[20:30] filling in. you see um we get updates from Mr. Blunt of the industrial and

[20:36] various development projects that are happening. We have development on

[20:39] Hawkins down road. All of that stuff we are going to eventually see the reap the

[20:44] rewards of an example is China Earth. You may

[20:49] have seen in the paper they're with the Macy's facility that they have. Um I

[20:53] think it's something like I don't know

[20:58] $275,000 in additional revenue. Couple million. Couple million 71%. 71%

[21:04] increase. So you think about the town of Spencer. If our tax revenue was to

[21:08] increase 71% what that's going to do for you as individuals and us as

[21:12] individuals, it means our property tax rate would go down because we now have

[21:17] more revenue coming in. The expenses maintain or stay the same roughly. And

[21:23] so what that then means is ultimately to balance the budget tax rate goes down.

[21:30] There are a lot of municipalities and I think Spencer used to do this where we

[21:34] kept the tax rate flat year after year after year. And what we did was we

[21:38] relied and a lot of years we relied on either fund balance or a lot of times we

[21:45] were actually charging residents and then we put money back in the fund

[21:48] balance and building up the fund balance. The reality is when you do

[21:52] that, we're not actually giving back to the community, right? We're charging you

[21:55] for something in one year that you're not getting that particular year or even

[21:59] maybe the next. So, what we've done is made a strategy to where we're actually

[22:04] trying to keep fund balance at a reasonable level, but not continuing to

[22:08] build it up and build it up and build it up so that we don't have to so we don't

[22:14] have taxes higher than they need to. the reality just like what was mentioned um

[22:20] insurance right your property insurance has doubled it's done that for all of us

[22:25] it's the same thing with the town our property insurance increases and there's

[22:28] a good bit of property we've had to add additional staff one of the things that

[22:33] we heard a year ago was um a little over a year ago there was concern over uh

[22:39] gunshots and things like that there was concern over um drug activity and stuff

[22:44] like that and we responded We responded by adding additional officers. And

[22:49] you'll look our our firefighters and our police officers, they're here tonight.

[22:53] They showed up in force and I think they showed up in force because one of the

[22:57] hard things and the hard realities of this budget is that we cut out a

[23:02] potential um at least the proposed budget cuts out a

[23:07] um to their salaries that would bring them up above what the market averages

[23:12] based on our salary stud. That's a tough pill to swallow. Well, we have a staff

[23:16] as good as as our staff that we have here today. And so, you know, some of

[23:21] them are sitting here on the other fence saying, "Well, we wish you to raise the

[23:24] taxes to be able to do those merit increases." The reality is is it has to

[23:27] be a compromise. It has to be a compromise between our community, our

[23:31] staff, and us as a board. Um, and so what's been presented, you know, it's

[23:37] not ideal for anybody at this point in time, but it's compromise that we've

[23:42] gotten to. we hear you and we'll go back and consider and when it comes to

[23:46] Tuesday, you know, what we vote on or what we ultimately end up doing. Um,

[23:50] it's going to consider all of that and it's going to consider each side of it.

[23:54] What I want to point out though is Spencer doesn't we as a town, we

[24:01] define your tax rate. We don't define your tax value. That's rowing county and

[24:07] ultimately it's based off of market conditions. And so market conditions two

[24:11] years ago set what they appraised your our

[24:15] properties at and it was high, right? We saw it go up. Now, I've heard from some

[24:21] some folks are seeing their appraisals and things now being less than what they

[24:26] were two years ago. That may be the case. Um, if the

[24:31] economy turns down, for sure it will probably be the case. But the reality is

[24:35] we have to base our rate off of what the appraised value is. So, what we do is we

[24:41] look at what expenses need to be each year and then we have to make sure that

[24:45] we have revenue to match that for a balance budget. If we don't, it means we

[24:50] have to do one of two things for both. That's cut expenses and raise uh revenue

[24:56] and that comes by raising taxes. We are projecting less of a sales

[25:01] tax increase because of that economic downturn based on guidance we've gotten

[25:05] from the state of North Carolina and municipalities. We projected less growth

[25:09] in sales tax than we've typically seen. And so that means in order to keep up

[25:14] with rising gas and rising insurance and you all of those things that are

[25:19] increasing for all of us at home, they're increasing for the town as well.

[25:22] We have to find a way to offset that. So that comes in cutting cost on one side,

[25:27] but unfortunately this year comes in raising taxes slowly. So that's where I

[25:31] get back to all this development, right? So, if we're to increase our tax revenue

[25:36] by 71% like Tonic Grove did, we we're not having this discussion. The

[25:40] discussion we're having is we're reducing your tax rate by

[25:44] X%. Unfortunately, it's not this coming year and it may not be next year. But

[25:50] within the next two years, that's when you're really going to see these

[25:53] projects coming online and that additional tax revenue. That's when we

[25:57] get to start talking about reducing tax rates. And so, you know, I sat up here

[26:02] at the beginning when we first started this process and I said, "There's no way

[26:06] we can go up on our tax." And so, that's what we worked from. That's what

[26:11] guidance we gave staff to work from was find a way to make this happen without

[26:16] increasing. And y'all worked. I know there were some midnight nights and some

[26:20] really late nights working to get this information together and staff providing

[26:24] the information, but ultimately what came out of it was the best

[26:28] recommendation that y'all follow for us now to consider based on input that we

[26:32] heard from the community, the feedback we've got from staff. Um, but you know,

[26:38] that's the recommendation. So, that's what we're going to have to consider.

[26:41] So, you know, this is not something that we just take lightly. It's not something

[26:45] that we want to just for a money grab. Unfortunately, this is actually a tough

[26:51] year when it comes to the budget. Part of that is, as Mrs. Gray said, you know,

[26:55] our ARPA funding is now gone away. Um, the ARPA funding was a great thing.

[27:02] Uh, it allowed us to do a lot of projects that we wouldn't have otherwise

[27:06] gotten to do. Um, it allowed us to basically supplant funds, um, use funds

[27:12] that we would have used for staffing for the purpose of some of these projects.

[27:16] Um, we've gotten to do some really stuff. Now, we're having to take a step

[27:20] back and say, "All right, we've been able to be really aggressive with these

[27:24] projects. We do need to slow that down a little bit and um and take stock of it."

[27:30] But what I want to for folks to come away from tonight

[27:33] is yeah, what's being recommended doesn't feel good. Doesn't feel good to

[27:38] any of us. And I know it didn't feel good for staff. Didn't feel good for

[27:41] staff have to propose a tax increase. It also didn't feel good for staff to have

[27:45] to cut some of the things that we proposed to cut. My commitment, as long

[27:50] as I am sitting in this chair, and I think those around me would agree, our

[27:55] commitment is to make sure that we're providing you with the services that you

[27:58] need to be a thriving and successful community, that we're making sure that

[28:03] we're carrying forth the priorities of the community, and that we're doing that

[28:07] as good stewards of the tax dollars that we are putting in. Um, so all that to

[28:14] say is if we want to cut beyond the two cent increase, if we want to not raise

[28:22] taxes, there would have to be cuts that would happen. And my my question, I

[28:27] guess, to the the citizens is what do you want us to cut? Because what I heard

[28:31] tonight was not not not cutting stuff. What I heard was more money's needed for

[28:36] roads. More money is needed for a variety of different things. Well, the

[28:40] reality is beyond taxes increasing, there's not

[28:45] beyond things like bonds. Um, and I heard that, you know, those are options,

[28:51] but ultimately that's going to cost our citizens more. And so, that's something

[28:55] we have to really work. I've talked enough,

[29:00] but yeah, go ahead. I'd like I've got some comments I'd like to make. I've

[29:03] spent a lot of hours looking at the budget that was prepared by our

[29:06] management and staff to make the best use of the funds that will be available

[29:10] for the operation of this town during the next 12 months. I don't remember if

[29:14] I raised my hand when asked if it was a consensus of the board not to increase

[29:18] our tax rate a few meetings ago, but I realized that when the federal monies

[29:22] ran out, we'd be faced with hard decisions.

[29:26] This town's been able to do a lot of great things in the last years and we've

[29:29] made progress so towards some lofty goals. Much of what has been

[29:33] accomplished has happened because there are people in our area who believed in

[29:37] the town of Spencer and who've been generous in putting their money in

[29:41] projects that were identified. We have used OPM other people's money for some

[29:47] of what you have seen and a lot of what you see. I'm sure I'll leave out

[29:52] someone, but we've received grants and gifts from the North Carolina Parks and

[29:56] Recreation Trust Fund, from the Carolina Thread Trail, from Fred and Alice

[30:01] Stanach Foundation, from the Canon Foundation, Friends of Rowan, the Rowan

[30:06] County Arts Council, the Margaret C. Woodson Foundation, the North Carolina

[30:11] Railroad, the Robertson Foundation, a federal community block grant, grant

[30:17] funding from the EPA Brownfields program with Central Council, land and property

[30:22] from Three Rivers Land Trust, and the Yadkin Historical Museum Foundation.

[30:27] Spencer Presbyterian Church has made space for our community garden. And the

[30:32] list goes on and on and on to acknowledge the many individuals and

[30:35] families who have stepped up to help us grow. We've used that opium of other

[30:41] people's money to build a lovely park with features that our citizens said

[30:45] they wanted. We've won grants by adding things to our projects that make Spencer

[30:50] a desirable place to live. We're more working to bring more amenities to the

[30:55] community to encourage growth. We've talked about summer programs for youth

[30:59] here and events in our new park space. It's been suggested that we delay adding

[31:04] an employee to do an active living program to the town. Our manager and

[31:09] staff were sent back to the drawing board to try and find more cost savings

[31:13] to keep our tax rate lower than the projected two cent increase when the

[31:17] numbers for the budget came up short. I pulled out my 2024 ruining county

[31:22] property tax notice and I saw the evaluation on my property is

[31:28] $227,531 and my tax bill for Spencer was

[31:34] $1,37656 based on 60.5 per 100. When I take that same evaluation and calculate

[31:41] the new amount with a tax rate of 62.5 cents per 100, my tax bill becomes

[31:49] $1,422.7. That's a difference of $45.51 more. And if I divide that by 12

[31:56] months, that's $3.79 a month added taxes. You may not

[32:02] remember this, but a few years ago, we the board lowered our tax rate. And I

[32:07] was chastised by a longtime resident who said, "You never lower the tax

[32:13] rate." I feel that we need to continue the progress we started when I was

[32:17] elected to serve the citizens of Spencer in 2019. I feel that we need to support

[32:22] the employees that work for us and pay them what they deserve. And we need to

[32:27] continue to provide the best service we can for our citizens. Yes, roads,

[32:31] sidewalks, potholes, those are problems. We know that. Additionally, we should

[32:36] honor those people who believe in the future of Spencer and have made our

[32:39] growth possible. I know that soon we will have additional investments in our

[32:43] community, which will increase our revenues and bring in additional taxes

[32:47] and grow our tax base. But until then, I support a modest tax increase.

[32:54] Thank you, M. Sledge. Thank you. board at this time. Are there other

[32:58] is there other input, other questions, other comments? Yeah, I I'll Mr. May, if

[33:04] I may, just offer a couple of comments. Um, first of all, it's nice to have you

[33:09] all here tonight. That's good. Um, I do think um, number one, I I don't

[33:16] think our priorities are I think there's a risk that we could leave here tonight,

[33:21] next week, and think that somehow there's a division. There's not. I I

[33:25] everything that you've said I absolutely agree with. Two years from now, this

[33:28] will not be a problem. Three years from now, perhaps 12 months from now, this

[33:32] will not be a problem. Um Miss Gray is absolutely correct that that ARPA funds

[33:36] are partly responsible for why we're having this conversation. I mean, I

[33:39] think we all agree. I think the question is how do we address the next problem?

[33:43] How do we address this particular situation, right?

[33:47] Um but also, I do think we have to keep things in silos. Um Leslie, I absolutely

[33:52] agree. Our roads are are not good. I I I've talked about Fifth Street I don't

[33:56] know how many times, right? We But as I I as we talked about with the community

[34:01] walk up a few months ago, those are sens of 60 years of neglect. It would take

[34:06] millions and t tens of millions of dollars to fix that. It's not going to

[34:10] happen ne next month, next year, and a decade from now. We'll probably still be

[34:14] having this conversation. It's just that bad. And that's that's not your fault.

[34:18] It's not our fault. We have to fix what 60 years didn't fix. And that that's

[34:22] that's the unfortunate truth, right? No, sure. I'm just saying I mean I I mean

[34:27] you're absolutely right. We just that's something we'll have to do really small

[34:30] bites, right? Um and I also think, you know, when I moved here and I I went to

[34:36] school in Spencer, I didn't live here until 2010. When I moved here, my house

[34:40] was 40% less valuable than the same house might have been sitting in rock or

[34:44] granite or faith because no one wanted to live here. This was a depressed

[34:48] community that had been frozen in time since the shops packed up and left.

[34:52] Right? That's all changed and that's all great. And I I've said it up here

[34:56] before. I don't think I ever saw that happening 12 15 years ago. It's

[35:00] wonderful that it's happened. And we all deserve it. And the folks who've been

[35:03] here for 20 or 30 or 40 or 60 or 80 years, you really really deserve it

[35:07] because you stuck it out and you made it work, right? So, we have to we have to

[35:11] remember that the momentary issue is not a reflection of where we've been or

[35:17] where we're going. Now, with that said, I'm not going to support a 2% increase

[35:20] or two not 2% a 2% increase just because I told you last year that I was going to

[35:24] 60, but I wasn't going any higher. I'm not. Now, what that means

[35:29] unfortunately is, as you said, the only way to reduce expenses is to cut

[35:35] services. I mean, there's there's no other math to make this work unless

[35:39] we're gonna sell t-shirts or something, which I'm open to that. That's cool. I

[35:42] like t-shirts, but um or sell some, you know, world's finest chocolate or

[35:46] something like that. I, you know, or sell fruit like the B like that's right.

[35:51] Yeah. Sell fruit. So, you know, that's that's the reality here. The the also

[35:57] the really unfortunate reality is that staff with Mr. trans and this board

[36:01] before I was up here and our chiefs and our employees have worked really really

[36:05] hard to turn organizations that were not in great shape five or six years ago

[36:11] into first class organizations that keep you safe. And we've got to ask them to

[36:17] kind of take it on faith that we can give them something that they maybe

[36:20] thought they were going to get maybe in 12 months or 24 months from now. So

[36:24] we've got to find a way to balance all of that now. So hopefully they all say

[36:31] hang out with us for a little while longer while we figure this out. Um

[36:35] those lead to tough conversations. Um and I you know I'm glad you guys are

[36:39] here too and we see you. We value you and having four kids in my family here.

[36:45] I know you guys are going to keep us safe. I appreciate what you do. So um

[36:50] we've got to find a way to balance all of that. Um you know I I've we talked

[36:56] out some ideas in the last meeting. I hope maybe those have stuck. Um I did

[37:00] raise the issue of of of that position maybe not doing it with parks. Not

[37:04] because we don't need it or I know we've talked about that a few years but it's a

[37:08] situation where it's a it's a position that's a hypothetical. I know maybe

[37:14] we're interviewing people. I don't know who those are. I don't know where

[37:16] they're from. I have no idea. Honestly, I'm glad I don't know. But we've got to

[37:20] make sure to the extent we can we don't raise the rate and at the same time keep

[37:24] those folks back they're happy because I want them to keep keep us safe. Um and

[37:29] you know I know that's a tough pill to swallow. It's a little bit of a setback

[37:33] but um I I don't you know I don't think there's a division among us up here.

[37:36] It's just about how do we get through this bump in the road and then we'll be

[37:40] off and running. And to that end, I think you know what we are working on is

[37:45] set up priorities that we developed several years ago as a board. We've all

[37:50] done a lot of stuff making sure we're moving those priorities forward and

[37:54] those priorities were what we heard from our community. You recall back in early

[38:00] 2020, I guess. Um we had the session at North Carolina

[38:05] High School. we had the community show up and the things we're doing now are

[38:09] the things that our community told us they want. Um and so we're working to

[38:14] mess our priorities. Um I know you brought up we would not move forward

[38:20] with that parks and recreation position. Um, I'm of the opinion that well, yeah,

[38:26] we could do that, but also I'm of the opinion, but we've got to be really

[38:31] careful about stepping back from all the progress that has been made over the

[38:36] last several years because, you know, I I think I shared with y'all at one of

[38:40] our strategic planning retreats that we did a an addage that uh that not to look

[38:46] back, but that we're not going back. Uh, we're moving forward. And so we have to

[38:51] be what I don't want to do is backtrack to take steps back from where we now all

[38:58] that say is we need to be very cognizant about if we are at new position but keep

[39:04] in mind some of our other departments we've frozen some positions so it's a

[39:10] balancing act that between all of that what I'm concerned about on the

[39:13] recreation side is we've got all these new facilities you heard from our

[39:17] residents too what program for that and my concern is you're going to have

[39:23] facilities sit for a year and their program is happening and things like

[39:26] that and then we're going to be right back at the situation where our

[39:30] residents are asking why aren't you doing anything with these

[39:34] things so I do think that position is important my opinion is we need to move

[39:38] forward with it because we planned it was part of the priorities been part of

[39:43] priorities for the last several years you planned it in this this year's

[39:48] budget timing wise we're at the point that it's

[39:51] likely going to happen at the beginning of a that's an important thing it's an

[39:57] easy cut it's easy to look at it and say that's a nice chunk let's cut it but I

[40:03] think the detriment some of the progress that's been made I think will be not

[40:10] I hear you this is yeah this is one of the

[40:14] toughest things I said y'all y'all voted me in and gave me two more years. So,

[40:19] I've got two more years of budget stuff to struggle with. And this is not easy.

[40:24] I'm telling you. I mean, we have staff members who've been here till 3 in the

[40:27] morning trying to work through it, trying to come up with answers. And I

[40:30] can't tell you how many hours I've spent with it. I'm, you know, I can't even

[40:35] keep up with it. But anyway, um it's tough. And I know that I, you know, I

[40:41] live on fixed income. I'm retired. I have social security and um I don't have

[40:47] any other income u from a a partner. So I mean I I see your point.

[40:53] Um there's just no easy access. Yeah. You know and I I wanted to mention I

[40:59] know one of there was a comment made about how our rate tax rate compares to

[41:05] somewhere like Salsbury or something like that or other larger communities

[41:08] that have a much lower tax rate. There's a reason for that and I

[41:14] But it's not an apples to apples comparison. And the reason why is in

[41:17] much larger communities because they have so many more people and so many

[41:21] more businesses and industries their tax revenue is much much higher for the

[41:26] services that they provide. And so, you know, we're we're a much smaller

[41:32] community with limited industry, limited business. And so what we need to keep

[41:39] our community safe and keep our community running and functioning, uh

[41:43] the the cost, the unit cost is higher than it would be in a much larger city.

[41:48] That's and that's just that's across the board. All small towns are going to have

[41:52] that that challenge. Um there's a reason some of the other municipalities haven't

[41:57] raised rates. Um Salsbury struggled. Salsbury had to make some major cuts. Uh

[42:04] county had to make some I believe some major cuts and they pushed off some

[42:09] projects that we uh East Spencer our neighbors across across the way they did

[42:14] a a huge increase last year so that they didn't have to this year I don't even

[42:21] remember it was 20 cent increase roughly that's huge but

[42:28] they did that for some of the same reasons we did so that they can have a

[42:32] full-time fire staff just we do. Um, and so we, you know, we we've tried to to

[42:38] balance that out, not do as big a one last year. But all that to say, trying

[42:43] to compare us to other communities, it's a little tough. It's a little jaded.

[42:47] It's a little cloudy with how that works. I think, and I've mentioned this

[42:51] before, what we need to look at is what is the return on investment that we're

[42:55] providing to our taxpayers. And I know they want to see better roads. They want

[43:00] to see better sidewalks and those sorts of things. What I also want folks to

[43:04] understand is that money, it could come from your tax dollars. Um, and I guess

[43:11] in a way it does at the state level, but the reality is the money for roads and

[43:16] sidewalk repairs that comes from the state. And the state gives us the same

[43:20] amount of money that they gave us over a decade ago. And so what do you think's

[43:24] happened? Material costs have gone up. Labor costs have gone up. So we are able

[43:29] to do much less when it comes to road repairs, road repaving, sidewalks, that

[43:34] sort of thing than we were able to do a decade ago. And so if you want to see

[43:39] that, I'll I'll I'll walk alongside you, Raleigh. I'll write letters as well, but

[43:44] we need to advocate for more funding through our power bill. That's where the

[43:48] money for the road is happen. Um, but in the absence of that, what we as a town

[43:54] are doing is we said, "All right, we're gonna we have to package these

[43:58] resurfacing." So, you'll see resurfacing every two years roughly as opposed to

[44:03] every year like we used to be able to do. Um, because we want to do as much

[44:07] paving as we can at one time because you get a better price from our contractors.

[44:11] What we talk about with public works is in those off years rather than not doing

[44:17] anything, we're going to invest some money into things like pothole repair,

[44:22] uh, cold sealing of cracks and things like that. It's abandoning, but at least

[44:29] it's something to keep the roads passible until we can

[44:32] get. So, it's not like we're just sitting back and we're not doing

[44:36] anything. We're trying to move the needle forward while still being able to

[44:40] make sure that

[44:43] so it's it's a task. I think that's the

[44:47] message. Uh Mr. Mayor, board and citizens, uh I

[44:53] just have a couple of things that I want to add to uh these discussions tonight.

[44:58] First of all, thanks to all of you for being here and a big special thank you

[45:02] to our fire and policemen for being here. I'm glad all of you showed up. I'm

[45:08] a p a retired public employee. I know what it's like when salaries get frozen

[45:15] and raises were taken back that you were expecting, especially when you're

[45:20] raising a family. I don't like it. When there's been a promise made and a

[45:25] commitment made, I think we need to do as much as we can to honor it and keep

[45:31] it. Um, especially for our employees. We probably have, and I'm going out on a

[45:37] limb here, but I think I'm probably right. We probably have the best staff

[45:42] in Rowan County. I'm not sure it's not the best staff in the whole state. We

[45:48] have turned Sensor around. And it's not been just us that's done it, and it's

[45:53] not just been our board that's done it. The groundwork was being laid before we

[45:57] got on here. It's been a cumulative process. But throughout all of this,

[46:02] I've lived here in Spencer my whole life. And I know taxes. I don't like

[46:09] paying high taxes either. None of us do. I don't think our taxes are high

[46:15] compared to what we get. I've talked to people from all over the state because I

[46:20] have a lot of uh former students and friends that live in places. They can't

[46:24] believe the services we provide. My sister lives in Asheville and she pays a

[46:30] whopping big amount of taxes. They still have to have their garbage carried off

[46:36] and paid for it. They have to pay to have all their yard debris carried off.

[46:41] She just cannot believe when she comes here and sees that our town picks up

[46:47] bulk items uh and does our garbage weekly and all

[46:53] of the brush and debris. that that's something that most communities don't

[46:57] get without any cost. Uh and I remember even in Spencer at one time we had to

[47:03] pay to get any bulk items u taken off and you had to come up here and pay them

[47:10] something then they come and look at it and then they going to call you and tell

[47:14] you how much more you have to pay. That was not fun. So, we've got a good system

[47:19] right here. And but the thing that really

[47:22] uh makes me proud, I'm on news sources all the times and um I'm all the time

[47:29] getting updates and news breakak and smart news and everything. And one time

[47:34] I saw an article that showed up. It said fastest growing and wisest investment in

[47:41] municipalities. Guess who was number one in the whole state? Us.

[47:47] And just think about your property and how it has grown in value. Now it's it's

[47:52] happened everywhere, but ours has really really increased. So you all are a

[47:59] little bit wealthier there if you are a property owner. So that's a good thing.

[48:04] But I remember when you couldn't sell a honeymoon. I remember when I would go to

[48:10] gatherings and there were people from other areas in this uh county and they

[48:16] talked down to us and would dare to talk about Spencer and Northland schools to

[48:21] me. Well, that was a mistake and usually I had to lose. Usually I got drugged out

[48:26] by coach secret before I said anymore. But you know, we don't have to defend

[48:32] Spencer anymore. And for those of you that have lived here a long time now, we

[48:39] have people pray for us and want to know how we did it. Now, I still know that

[48:44] we're responsible to our citizens, but we are also responsible to our employees

[48:49] and to our program and to this wonderful park system that we have.

[48:56] So, I still hadn't 100% made up my mind, but I know which way I'm leaning. And I

[49:02] think most of us probably know and uh you know, I look at this

[49:09] and it's not when you do like Pat did and average it out over a year, that's

[49:16] less than a a bag of candy you buy at a store. I mean, and it I think it added

[49:23] like $7 or something a month to a $250,000 house in taxes. That's less

[49:30] than a pack of cigarettes. I got to think about stuff like that as like I

[49:34] said, I'm I'm looking at it also from the public employee perspective because

[49:39] if you're working for the public, you don't get

[49:44] u rewarded often for doing a good job. you just get more work to do on the same

[49:50] salary. And basically, that's how it works. So, I'm looking at it from that,

[49:55] too. And I want to keep every employee we

[49:58] have. I don't want them being siphoned off by Davidson County, Meth

[50:07] County, Paul, or any other place. We've got we're competitive now. And I want to

[50:13] say because we got top-notch people. And I'm not saying we haven't always had

[50:18] topnotch people, but they've been stable. We're not losing as many as we

[50:24] used to do. When we first came on here, how many vacancies did we have in that

[50:29] police department? A lot. And basically a volunteer fire

[50:35] department. And you don't attract industry and

[50:40] um developers and everything by having a volunteer fire department. You got to be

[50:46] able to offer the protection. And I feel safe in these

[50:51] things. I don't ever worry about being attacked. And I'm old now and I'm an

[50:58] easy mark, but I don't ever worry about I'm not saying it won't happen, but I

[51:02] don't worry about it. I mean, our streets are clean. They may not be They

[51:07] might need to have some holes that need to be patched up, but we've got these

[51:11] good people walking around, and I've never felt

[51:15] intimidated. Um, you know, but we could have gone the other

[51:19] way. So, I I'm leaning towards supporting this and because I know

[51:25] what's coming in two years and I think we'll be able to stop it or even

[51:31] decrease it. remember who said you never decrease

[51:36] your taxes. Yeah, that's right.

[51:42] First of all, everybody up on this board is optimist. We got into this thing

[51:48] being optimistic about Spencer's future. Like Petty and the rest of talking about

[51:54] at one time we couldn't sell a house. I'd love to got out of Spencer at that

[51:58] time, but I couldn't because I couldn't get true value.

[52:02] But we've done and we say we, I thought about everybody in this group, they've

[52:06] done an outstanding group as far as uh if you look at our budget, I've

[52:13] studied it. Our biggest source is our employees, our police department, fire

[52:18] department, maintenance department, and our staff. And that's what makes

[52:23] it. If we didn't have good employees, everybody would be upset.

[52:30] But at the same time, I'm looking at it as an open mind like some of these

[52:34] people expressed. I've seen a lot of communities where the tax rate has grown

[52:40] so far and so much that they can't afford

[52:44] living and I'm concerned.

[52:49] There's not everybody, you know, Spencer is kind of a depressed town where, you

[52:53] know, at one time we could you could afford living here and getting by, but

[52:59] uh everything has improved and that's cost everything everybody cost things

[53:07] for everybody else. So, I am concerned about it. As the mayor says, we've taken

[53:13] gambles in the future and look at what we've got.

[53:19] It's amazing. If you told me eight years ago we'd have all this, I'd be a new

[53:25] fire truck, new garbage truck, new beautiful town hall that we're in right

[53:30] now. I wouldn't believe it. I think it's amazing. We do have to take

[53:35] G, but I'm questioning myself for the maybe we need to take a pause maybe this

[53:42] year and wait and see what's happen. But this time, I'm just expressing my

[53:48] opening that I might consider holding back on the expenses of this year. But

[53:54] at the same time, that's why I'm here. I'm listening to every folks

[53:59] here. But the main thing, like I said, what makes a town is our employee, and I

[54:05] appreciate what y'all do. Thank you. If I may say, Mr. mayor, board, staff, and

[54:12] most of all the residents of the town. Um, and being a resident here,

[54:18] Spencer for 20 some odd years, we are all affected by this. It's

[54:24] almost like it's a double-edged sword. We need to make sure that we keep these

[54:30] services that we have with the quality of staff that we have because

[54:37] ultimately our number one priority is the residents is the town. But in order

[54:42] for the town to continue to flourish and hearing what my constituents up here

[54:48] were saying, I I can look back in the past and of course I I probably wouldn't

[54:53] have thought that we would be where we're at today 101 15 years ago in

[54:58] reference to the town hall, the different amenities that have taken

[55:02] place here in town. And if I'm wrong, Mr. Mayor, some of the the roads and I

[55:06] hear the concerns of the residents. Some of the roads, the responsibility of that

[55:11] is not just on the town of Spencer, it's also on the Department of

[55:15] Transportation. And I know we have we have addressed some of those. There is

[55:20] still some work that needs to be done. And I mean, there always is going to

[55:24] have to be work to be done in order for the town to continue to flourish and not

[55:27] die. So, it's not an it's not an easy

[55:31] decision that has to be made because it affects us as well.

[55:41] Mr. Cring, any clarifying remarks or anything like that at this point?

[55:49] that what what I'm happy to share based on I guess some of the questions from

[55:54] last time and and this is published within the agenda packet. There were

[55:59] questions on a few different items. Uh and

[56:04] so I'll just roughly uh give a few highlights from that. But uh again there

[56:12] was the questions around uh our ability to implement the pay study. Um, first of

[56:19] all, uh, there there I have a chart published in there that kind of shows a

[56:25] few different things and it shows it by department and it and it shows it uh and

[56:30] and if you're on the packet, it's there's a public hearing notice

[56:36] published in the packet and then the next page after that uh is where this uh

[56:41] information is. Uh so currently we for the for the

[56:46] recommended budget there is a proposal of a flat uh increase for for all

[56:51] full-time staff of $1,200 next year which is um an amount that's uh

[56:59] roughly kind of mid-range on our DI program. And so for some that represents

[57:05] a little less than a typical year and some that represents a little more and

[57:10] some it represents about about what average but it's a flat rate for

[57:14] everybody no matter what your current salary is. And of course that is a a

[57:19] best benefit to uh as a percentage to those who

[57:24] are on the first few stages of our of our pay

[57:29] scale. um that the cost of that is about

[57:35] $49,000. And of course, every time I say a cost of a salary increase, you can add

[57:41] 30% to it for the other benefits as well. So that that is currently funded

[57:46] in the recommended budget for a total cost of about 63 to $64,000.

[57:53] That's compared to if we were able to implement the full market study that

[57:58] we've discussed several times. That would have a price tag of about $200,000

[58:02] in salary changes. Add the 30% that's up to

[58:06] 263. That that was pretty quickly not um going to be able to be 100%

[58:14] implementation. We evaluated a number of scenarios through through the budget

[58:19] process to figure out uh you know where we might be able to land and we were

[58:25] working towards a you know some sort of partial implementation whether that

[58:28] meant uh you know phasing it in in various ways throughout the fiscal year.

[58:34] As an example, this chart shows an incremental phase in that moves uh the

[58:39] increase along uh at four increments through the

[58:43] fiscal year about every six or seven pay cycles so that by March we've gotten

[58:47] folks up to where we want them to be. That comes in at about 60% of the cost

[58:53] of the full study. Uh at about 124,000 125,000 again add the 30% that's

[59:00] up to 161. And again, ultimately it it was not an option that

[59:06] we were able to recommend without further changes to our

[59:11] revenues. And so where again where we landed um was uh about for including the

[59:18] benefits um 60 about

[59:22] $64,000. And so the next column just shows as a comparison. It says

[59:29] additional needed to fund incremental. It shows the additional cost if we were

[59:35] to uh try to go from that flat one, 1200

[59:41] plan to the incremental plan. So that for example is a

[59:47] $75,000 additional and again add the 30% it comes into about

[59:52] 98,000. What I've done though is uh it's shown as a whole but it's also shown uh

[59:59] by department. You can see all of these scenarios by department. Um it's it's in

[1:00:05] there and published and and again it shows because the 30% was being totaled

[1:00:15] along the bottom of that chart. It's also totaled on there on the side. So uh

[1:00:20] you can understand either individually or as a whole what that would look like.

[1:00:26] So, that's just one additional piece of information and context uh in case

[1:00:30] that's helpful. Uh the active living coordinator position that was funded in

[1:00:38] the current year budget uh but has not yet been filled uh but we are in the

[1:00:44] process of doing so. Um but again that there are not been anybody hired or any

[1:00:51] offers made. Um although we're close to that point.

[1:00:57] Um that the cost of that position in next year's budget is uh when you

[1:01:02] include all the benefits for that position is about 63 and a half

[1:01:07] thousand. Um, another piece of information that's published in in here

[1:01:13] based on the conversation from last time was a conversation around board member

[1:01:18] stipens. Uh, so that that information is published in there. That's a total cost

[1:01:22] for the current uh for the coming fiscal year of about just under $25,000 for the

[1:01:28] whole year for all of all of the elected officials.

[1:01:35] Um, and so that's that's there for just

[1:01:40] forformational purposes. Of course, it's elsewhere in the budget document, but

[1:01:43] this was just to try to consolidate. Um, we also had a little conversation

[1:01:50] about our bulky waste program and and kind of concern over whether it was an

[1:01:54] issue of something that was driving up our costs or people taking advantage of

[1:01:59] it. And um the the analysis came out that it's actually uh had has a cost

[1:02:08] from a tipping fee perspective. We were able to isolate that the trucks on

[1:02:12] Thursdays that would be using that. And the the the year's tipping fees for that

[1:02:19] program is about uh $1,758 or about $146 a.

[1:02:27] And we also programmed in the the the staff time

[1:02:33] involved. Of course, that's not an extra cost. It's just a representative figure

[1:02:38] of the allocation of their their time. But uh we have a crew of two that

[1:02:43] typically spends two to three hours once a week on Thursdays collecting targeted

[1:02:48] items. They don't go up and down every street looking for it because those

[1:02:51] items have already been identified through the garbage collection process.

[1:02:55] Uh but we we estimate the the staff time cost of that program to to be just under

[1:03:02] $4,000. Uh we did not identify fuel expense as a significant cost. Although

[1:03:09] you know you are making a trip to the landfill and back. Um but we we

[1:03:15] determined that that wasn't a cost that really needed to factor into this uh

[1:03:20] analysis. But uh but when you add that together, you're you're just under

[1:03:25] $6,000 uh for the year for the what we do with bulky waste. Uh we we believe

[1:03:31] that the cost is that cost is less than the of course the value of the benefit

[1:03:36] provided by keeping the community uh appearance clean and providing the

[1:03:41] higher level of service. So folks aren't having to figure out other ways to

[1:03:46] dispose of these items. Um there was uh questions about our

[1:03:52] Rusty Home Senior Center partnership and the the senior programs that

[1:03:57] have happened over many years but in recent years done in partnership with

[1:04:02] Rusty Home Senior Center. Uh we currently work with them to provide a

[1:04:07] minimum of two catered lunch events per year including entertainment. Um and as

[1:04:13] available uh they also are uh working to provide other activities whether they be

[1:04:19] fitness classes for seniors or educational or other social or other

[1:04:23] types of programs. In May we had our most recent

[1:04:28] event. There's usually one in May, one December. There were 100 seniors signed

[1:04:32] up for that event. Uh and so that's what they prepared for. Uh there they had

[1:04:38] about 75 or 80 people actually attend. So unfortunately there were some folks

[1:04:44] that didn't come. Uh don't really have a an answer as to why or but it's

[1:04:51] unfortunate but you know for what they prepared for it was about $20 a person

[1:04:55] for a full meal with drinks and dessert entertainment and door prizes for those

[1:05:00] in attendance. Um staff believes that this is a good value for what's provided

[1:05:05] for those seniors for those interactions a couple times a year for all they get.

[1:05:09] The Rusty Holmes team has a they've done a great job of bringing their team out

[1:05:14] to make it uh smooth and enjoyable. This is something again our history of

[1:05:19] volunteers making things happen in Spencer. For many years this program

[1:05:23] happened with volunteers putting it together. Um that's become more

[1:05:27] challenging in recent years and this was a great opportunity to partner with with

[1:05:31] our local senior services nonprofit to make that happen.

[1:05:36] And then uh the other information that I provided is related to our uh our grant

[1:05:42] programs that go through our community appearance commission and and historic

[1:05:46] preservation commission related to the Salsbury Avenue corridor improvements

[1:05:51] and our residential historic preservation program.

[1:05:56] Uh you can see over the last several years how uh those programs have

[1:06:03] increased in the amount of funding that has gone towards those. Historically

[1:06:08] each of the they were originally known as residential and commercial facade

[1:06:12] grant programs. They had pots of $2,000 each and maximum matching grant awards

[1:06:18] of $500. And in the fiscal year 22, that

[1:06:22] increased dramatically uh by an increase in the town

[1:06:26] contributions towards those programs. We we started contributing $10,000 for each

[1:06:32] rather than $2,000 and and increase the match uh the maximum matched to to 2,000

[1:06:38] instead of 500. And we also in that first year had

[1:06:42] an infusion of additional grant funding from Duke Energy of 25,000.

[1:06:48] So we went from one year having $4,000 to dole out $45,000 the next year. But

[1:06:55] then it kind of flattened after that. The last few years it had been $20,000

[1:07:00] each year. Then in the current fiscal year uh during the budget approval

[1:07:05] process last year that went from 20 to 16,000 taking it from 10 to 8 into the

[1:07:11] grant programs. Now, typically we have at times struggled to to get uh

[1:07:18] enough applicants to uh be awarded all of those grant funds. You can you can

[1:07:23] see the next column in there in any given year. We you know are roughly

[1:07:29] awarding about half of the grant funds that are available. And then, you know,

[1:07:35] we're roughly uh having those grant those awarded grants uh go to completion

[1:07:42] on when somebody actually does the work and turns in their receipts for

[1:07:45] reimbursement. It's been about you know 60 to 70% of those

[1:07:52] awarded grants have especially over the last few years

[1:07:57] have gotten to the completion. Uh so that's that's just some information. Uh

[1:08:02] there was a there was a question about that. You can kind of see how that

[1:08:05] program's worked over the last few years. In the current in the recommended

[1:08:09] budget, uh the recommendation is to uh for for next year at least to return

[1:08:14] that to the more modestsized uh pot of 2,000 for each of those programs with

[1:08:22] max award of $500. And you can see

[1:08:28] that again historically Well, a year in fiscal year 21, we

[1:08:34] awarded half of the awarded 4,000. Uh 2,000 was awarded and 2,000 was expended

[1:08:41] to reimbursement.

[1:08:45] Question question. Yeah. And I I think we we talked briefly about this last

[1:08:48] time. M asked about the contract services because that I mean that is a

[1:08:52] pretty significant amount. It's about 8% of the budget. We But just for for those

[1:08:57] playing along here at home, what what is that? Sure. So, it's a it's a variety of

[1:09:03] things depending on where uh within our administrative budget. That's how our

[1:09:08] our planning services our planning services that we

[1:09:14] provide are done via contract services. So, that's that's one example within the

[1:09:19] administrative budget. Um we also uh have uh elements like uh in our

[1:09:30] in our public safety departments uh and even even in our administrative

[1:09:35] sometimes it it is referring to some of the software that we're using

[1:09:41] uh some of those platforms. Uh in public works, it's uh

[1:09:47] mulch grinding. In the library, uh it uh we have some in contract services for

[1:09:54] some of the events when uh contracting out of folks to help provide those

[1:10:00] activities. Uh in the proposed recommend uh recreation budget, uh same thing,

[1:10:07] some some level of contracted services for programming activities. Um but in

[1:10:14] um in general those are those are some of the things that are covered in that

[1:10:20] those services

[1:10:24] uh to some I mean not greatly but to some extent they do

[1:10:30] I guess are these figures that

[1:10:37] yes I mean what you see uh in the recommended budget is Uh really there

[1:10:42] there's actually some things that that we have reduced uh we have reduced our

[1:10:47] planning services hours in some cases to try to create some savings. Engineering

[1:10:53] services was cut that as well. Yeah.

[1:11:01] Peter, can you uh address for u our citizens why code enforcement has been

[1:11:07] moved to the police department or there seems to be some confusion? Sure. So,

[1:11:12] for several years, code enforcement has been a function provided through our

[1:11:16] police department. The recommended budget includes uh an adjustment to uh

[1:11:23] move our code officer to a sworn law enforcement position. Uh our code off

[1:11:28] our current code officer happens to to be a sworn law enforcement officer and

[1:11:32] works with has a reserve status with our police department.

[1:11:38] And the the idea is to provide some flexibility. So, and it's also an

[1:11:44] ability to get a few more hours a week of services. The code officers um on a

[1:11:51] 40hour a week schedule. Our sworn law enforcement officers are 42 hours or a

[1:11:57] week or 84 hours every two weeks. That's about 100 extra hours of services a year

[1:12:02] that could be provided. Uh but the the key thing is uh is the flexibility that

[1:12:09] would be possible through that position of being able to respond if needed while

[1:12:16] while on duty as a code officer and some of those other capacities.

[1:12:23] Can I say one other thing? Yeah. For information for our public and

[1:12:26] everything else. The proposal is two cents and we all know this on the board

[1:12:32] but just information for every penny if we're deducting

[1:12:39] 38,354 out of the so with that 2% we are cutting little over

[1:12:47] 74,000. That's what we're trying to cut if we wanted to get the budget back to

[1:12:52] the previous year. So that's just information good information for you to

[1:12:56] know. Can you talk through I mean you got the

[1:13:00] summary talk through the kind of cumulative example cuts that

[1:13:07] were made. There's a question of, you know, have you cut? The answer is yes,

[1:13:13] we have cut out of the proposed budget. And so can you kind of walk through what

[1:13:17] some of those proposed cuts are? Understand that. Sure. So, and again

[1:13:22] kind of going going through um through by the budget unit or the

[1:13:27] department for the recommended budget, the the current recommended amount for

[1:13:32] governing body um is about $25,000. Um that that budget

[1:13:43] um includes uh again historically quite a few of our u the grant programs we've

[1:13:51] talked about but they also include things that we we've got to have like

[1:13:55] accounting services for our audit legal services uh dues and subscriptions to

[1:14:01] entities like uh the lead municipalities and central line of council of

[1:14:05] governments and the chamber and that sort of thing. And they also include the

[1:14:09] fees that we pay to the Rowan County tax collector.

[1:14:14] $35,000 of that budget is is is that. So, and of course, every municipality in

[1:14:20] the county contracts with the county for that service rather than hiring their

[1:14:24] own person to be a tax collector. Uh that fee has increased over the last

[1:14:30] several years. We've been on a five-year plan of getting the fee to be

[1:14:37] 1.5% of our revenue, tax revenue that's collected. They we pay that back to them

[1:14:44] in this fee. Uh it's gone up.15% each year for the last several

[1:14:50] years. So that amount that amount has has gone up over the last several years.

[1:14:55] Mr. F, can I make a comment on that too? And I know that looks like a big number

[1:15:00] and relative to our budget, it maybe is, but for 35,000 less than a full-time

[1:15:05] equivalent position, we're getting a whole department. I I know none of us

[1:15:08] like a tax man, so to say, but they do a phenomenal job. And that's a that's a

[1:15:12] deal for the services they provide. So, I mean that that's I know it's a big

[1:15:18] number, but I promise you if we try to do that ourselves, it would be our

[1:15:21] entire budget. So I recently as part of the mayor's association that I'm a part

[1:15:25] of, I recently was on an email chain where different one mayor in the eastern

[1:15:30] part of the state was trying to find out they were considering taking their house

[1:15:35] and so we started getting all these numbers back and forth from folks and uh

[1:15:39] the 1.5% is a very reasonable rate. I saw rates upwards of a lot of them were

[1:15:45] two two and a half%. I saw a couple that were in the 5% which I thought was

[1:15:50] highly but uh Yeah, it's so again about $200 to $5,000. We to get

[1:16:00] to the recommended budget identified about $14,000 in cuts. Uh that included

[1:16:06] uh putting a pause on the mural program. We have for several years had public art

[1:16:12] happening uh here primarily through uh grants, but we have also budgeted some

[1:16:17] town funding to help with matches uh and kind of get it started each year. But

[1:16:22] we've typically brought in grant funding that exceeds uh the amount needed to

[1:16:28] actually do the work. But we've typically funded as kind of our own

[1:16:33] start each year about $5,000 uh $12,000 between both of the

[1:16:37] grant programs. We've been talking about a reduction in the events uh line uh

[1:16:43] specifically about a $4,000 reduction in what we're contributing towards

[1:16:49] Winterfest. Uh and part of that is due to we're providing more now in terms of

[1:16:55] inind services with the with the park. We're going to be providing uh

[1:17:00] facilities that will hopefully reduce some of the costs on the organizers of

[1:17:06] of putting that event on and a reduction in our available contingency of of

[1:17:12] $10,000. That amount really was I considered it modest to begin with at

[1:17:17] about the last few years we've we've had uh 15 or 20,000. right now what's

[1:17:25] recommended for next year at 5,000 in contingency. So that's the what if in

[1:17:30] the budget. That's the what when something pops up uh it's our ability to

[1:17:35] say okay here's an opportunity and we've got this set aside that we can make use

[1:17:40] of. So the contingency for next year is being recommended at $5,000 just in a

[1:17:45] effort to keep things as minimal as possible. And um uh moving on to uh our

[1:17:53] administrative uh department, uh we've identified

[1:17:58] $32,000 in in cuts to get to the recommended amount

[1:18:03] uh ranging on reducing reducing training and travel uh

[1:18:09] budgets, reducing uh funding to we typically like to budget an amount uh

[1:18:15] for HVAC maintenance for this this building has six units that if one of

[1:18:21] them goes out and we've already had to replace one of them, uh because these

[1:18:24] these were existing units that were upfitted, uh put back into service as

[1:18:30] part of the project, uh one of those goes out, it's about $20,000 to replace

[1:18:35] it. And so rather than having to scramble, we were fortunate the last few

[1:18:40] years that we kind of budgeted that amount just in case it was if needed, it

[1:18:45] was there. Uh but in the you know that's an example looking forward to this

[1:18:49] budget. You know what uh we're going to we're not going to budget that much.

[1:18:53] We're going to maybe uh we reduce that amount by about

[1:18:57] $10,000. Um and if something's needed, we'll we'll have to figure it out when

[1:19:02] the time comes. Um, we also uh and it's not reflected uh

[1:19:09] as a cut because of the way our budget software works, but uh we were hoping to

[1:19:13] fund a part-time uh position to continue that public art program that I talked

[1:19:19] about. Uh we're not able to recommend that at this time. That's worth about

[1:19:23] 115,000. um our police department uh about

[1:19:29] $24,000 in uh in cuts for again things like travel and training and uh but also

[1:19:36] u reducing the amount we have on uh uh some of our contract services like

[1:19:47] uh including the uh having some funding available if we need to do a code

[1:19:52] enforcement abatement reducing that amount uh reding amount of tasers that

[1:19:58] uh we were planning to replace and but the most significant

[1:20:04] area for police was a frozen position uh with benefits that's worth almost

[1:20:11] $60,000. Uh two replacement vehicles uh that's about $105,000 that we're just

[1:20:17] going to have to hold off right now. in the fire department. There was about

[1:20:24] $65,000 reduction in in some uniform items and some uh PPE bunker gear

[1:20:32] replacements. Um there were some building maintenance needs at the fire

[1:20:36] station we would have liked to have been able to do. We're going to have to hold

[1:20:40] off on those. We reduced that amount. Um and then some maintenance on our reserve

[1:20:45] backup engine. Um there was an amount produced there,

[1:20:50] but again the total was about $65,000. And then

[1:20:57] um in in our um in our public works department, there was a mower uh

[1:21:03] replacement that we're going to hold off on for a year that's worth about

[1:21:08] 14,000. Um, and then we there was a budget request related to some

[1:21:14] maintenance on on our uh garbage truck, our older garbage truck, uh, that we we

[1:21:20] had cut that one out, but we were able to fund it um, in with savings in the

[1:21:26] current year budget. And there are a few other items that uh, aren't necessarily

[1:21:31] on this list. We've actually worked through some of them in the last few

[1:21:34] meetings where we've identified some opportunities in the current year to

[1:21:37] take care of a few things and we were able to um the departments had several

[1:21:43] items that they didn't even request and so they're not showing up as a as a cut.

[1:21:49] But those are some of the examples. What was the I know the number so they

[1:21:55] know the number. I know that from March when we started planning this to the

[1:21:58] number you told us last month that we had we had to work down from what's the

[1:22:02] difference? Well, it it we were looking at about a million dollar gap that we

[1:22:06] started with in just and that was just raw. Those are raw numbers. It was kind

[1:22:11] of the pre-ere request um kind of stage that before everything

[1:22:17] was finalized of you know just going on available revenues keeping everything

[1:22:21] the same and looking at you know all the possibilities of requests.

[1:22:27] Um the other thing I think need to point out right brought this up right is the

[1:22:32] ARPA funding we don't have that so you know as far as these cuts you're going

[1:22:38] to see cutting some things but there were conditions I guess over the past

[1:22:42] couple years with with that staff who've done things like that. I think the thing

[1:22:47] that we need to keep in mind what are increases that are proposed in the

[1:22:52] budget maybe offsetting some of this the increase uh proposed two cent

[1:23:00] increase. One of the big things and I think I had kind of forgotten about this

[1:23:04] and make sure our board and our citizens remember this. Uh there is still uh

[1:23:09] additional basically this coming year additional

[1:23:13] fire staff for the entire year because I believe if I'm correct we budgeted

[1:23:18] basically for three positions for a whole year and three positions for a

[1:23:22] half year. Is that right? Uh that was the that that transition happened in the

[1:23:27] current Yeah. So we had we had fully funded position in the current year

[1:23:32] we're in for fire. Uh the one of the big changes though with fire budget is the

[1:23:37] new debt service for the new the new fire truck um is is certainly

[1:23:43] um you know that that was one item there. Um

[1:23:50] yeah. So Mr. Mayor, if I may just make a a comment of the board and Mr. Franis

[1:23:56] and staff, as I said last week, I think we all said this last time we were here.

[1:24:00] We appreciate what you've done. you guys have have moved the mountain in six

[1:24:03] weeks. Um that was a big difference six weeks ago. You guys have have got us

[1:24:07] down to we do some fine tweaking. So So well done.

[1:24:11] Um you know regardless of how you slice it, we're asking someone on faith to

[1:24:18] take a to take a haircut, right? To tighten the budgets. I you know I I said

[1:24:23] it last time we were here. Mr. Mayor, I know you were you were not here, but

[1:24:25] just for the for your benefit. I I mean I don't want to put pressure on anyone

[1:24:29] up here, but I know how I feel. We need to tighten, you know, and our stipens

[1:24:33] not you heard m Mr. Frenzy say it. The whole siphon for all of us total is

[1:24:37] 25,000 for the year. That that's it. Um but as a good faith, I think we we've

[1:24:43] got a titan what we get. If we're asking everyone else to titan, we've got to

[1:24:46] tighten. Um and I I mean I'm you know, we can take that as low as y'all want to

[1:24:50] go. So I don't want to put any pressure on anyone, but I mean if that's a to me

[1:24:54] that's leadership in good faith and and we can't sit up here in good faith and

[1:24:57] ask these folks don't on to do regardless of how we all vote. I mean

[1:25:03] someone's taking a haircut, right? And they're are are not getting maybe what

[1:25:07] they'd hope they're going to get. We we've got to do the same. So I've

[1:25:10] already donated mine. No. And you have. Yeah. And you have the next three years.

[1:25:15] and you have and I you know that was that was the documentation from from

[1:25:19] Miss Py today and we didn't know that so we appreciate that. Um, so you know, you

[1:25:24] know, in my thought is is that at least a third and that that's 78,000 bucks I

[1:25:30] think by my math over a year and I mean and we can go no lower if you want to,

[1:25:35] but I don't want to put anyone on. I agree with what you're saying because um

[1:25:42] well number one I I didn't even know there was a sip when I ran. So that was

[1:25:47] a pleasant surprise and uh you're getting a good bargain for your money.

[1:25:52] But I agree if everybody else is taking a hit I want to take one

[1:25:57] too and we can talk about how much it uh how much work on that.

[1:26:06] Yeah. I have one one other question uh because Miss Gray asked about u the

[1:26:12] resource officer the grease um those they won't be dedicated resource

[1:26:18] officers now is that so we're really there's not a change in function uh

[1:26:24] right now our our compensation and classification plan shows uh rather it

[1:26:31] shows a separate classification for school resource officers. What we're

[1:26:34] recommending doing is not keeping that as a separate

[1:26:39] classification. It's just an assignment. Same thing for detective. It's not a

[1:26:43] separate classification. It's an assignment. So then our rank structure

[1:26:47] of police officer, corporal, sergeant, etc. functions as the classification.

[1:26:53] And whether you're assigned a patrol or investigations or school resource

[1:26:57] officer, that that's what that's about. So it's not uh we still are we still

[1:27:02] have three school resource officers funded in the budget. Those are grant

[1:27:06] funded. Two of them are are funded at 100% including salary benefits, fuel,

[1:27:12] training, etc. Uh and uh one of them is at about 85 or 86%. Uh and just just so

[1:27:20] folks understand that represents the the funding that we get from Brilliance

[1:27:25] Albury schools and actually they get other grant funding that they pass on to

[1:27:29] us and others. Uh that revenue for the school resource officers uh is

[1:27:35] programmed in at $252,000. I was that was my next question is

[1:27:41] because if we made any changes to their their uh duty would lose some of the

[1:27:46] revenue from the school. We we certainly value what our school resource officers

[1:27:51] do and and our ability to be in the schools and we've got we've got them

[1:27:56] here today and u but no so there's no change to the function. It's

[1:28:02] simply adjusting it the comp and class structure to follow the rank structure.

[1:28:08] Thank you.

[1:28:13] Any other questions?

[1:28:17] Obviously, we'll have our work cut out for us uh on Tuesday. We appreciate all

[1:28:22] the input. Thank you citizens who came out, staff in here. Thank you for all

[1:28:26] the time that's gone into budgeting this uh this cycle. And and I what I I guess

[1:28:33] what I'll say or ask and it sounds like maybe we don't we are not quite there.

[1:28:37] We can either come back Tuesday with an adjusted budget

[1:28:44] ordinance. Uh we of course there's already a recommended budget ordinance.

[1:28:50] Uh if so the question is do you feel like you want to consider an ordinance

[1:28:55] on Tuesday? um whether it's as recommended or with

[1:29:00] requested changes that we can bring back or is Tuesday going to be more of

[1:29:06] another workshop opportunity and then we would need to have another meeting you

[1:29:10] know to consider voting on a budget ordinance and that's kind of where we

[1:29:14] are in the process

[1:29:20] I think we need to think about some of these things and you guys um do another,

[1:29:27] you know, run down of where we're headed and then I don't know if we'll be ready

[1:29:33] to vote on Tuesday. Is it possible by Tuesday if you have

[1:29:40] the current proposal as you have and then a potential secondary ordinance

[1:29:46] that could also be considered that show what it would look like at a 0%

[1:29:56] Well, it could, but we we would need some direction on, you know,

[1:30:02] how to achieve that. That's right. That's right. Which I

[1:30:06] think we say 70,000 that we talking $76,78. Yeah, if we cut the recreation

[1:30:15] person, which is

[1:30:19] $63,547, that would mean we may still need to reduce the budget $13,161.

[1:30:28] I'm not in favor of cutting that position. I think we have to have it.

[1:30:32] We've invested too much money into the parks and the things that we have here.

[1:30:37] One of the things that you said, Mr. Miller, is that you'd like to see more

[1:30:40] people use our parks in the If we had somebody who was working with

[1:30:45] those, we might have an opportunity to have more.

[1:30:49] We've also heard, you know, the need for youth

[1:30:53] program and that was an extent of the position as well to help with that. I I

[1:30:59] hear you. I'm concerned that if you don't

[1:31:03] So, if we don't cut the position, is there any way that we can revisit the

[1:31:07] salary amount for that

[1:31:10] position? I mean I think you're splitting that

[1:31:15] right question is how what can you cut to make a meaningful enough but that's

[1:31:21] not going to

[1:31:23] be do I know that puts you all in a tight spot in terms of the folks who are

[1:31:30] waiting whatever that means I don't I don't we we know nothing about right I

[1:31:36] we don't so I think I mean you should give an update where you are like I

[1:31:40] think you're you're to the point you're ready to send an offer, but you pause.

[1:31:44] So, I'm happy that I could share in a way, but uh yes, so we we've gotten the

[1:31:50] process through multiple rounds of interviews to we were at the stage of of

[1:31:56] being prepared to make an offer. um we have uh let the folks involved in the

[1:32:02] process know what's happening with this uh and the budget discussions and that

[1:32:07] we need more time uh potentially through next Tuesday's

[1:32:12] meeting to kind of have a determination of whether we're

[1:32:17] going to be able to move forward. So that's kind of where they are where we

[1:32:20] are with that process. But you feel really good about the candidates.

[1:32:25] We we had an outstanding candidate pool. Um and we've enjoyed interacting with

[1:32:30] candidates and I think Spencer would be served well by any number of the folks

[1:32:36] who are interested in working in our organization in this capacity.

[1:32:41] Mr. Mayor, if I may just make a comment on that and I this is I guess from my

[1:32:46] perspective a splitting of the baby as it were. I I think as a matter and I you

[1:32:52] probably know where I'm going to come down on this as a matter of good

[1:32:56] faith. I think we owe them an answer as quick as possible. All right. I mean

[1:33:01] because they're they no doubt have jobs or other opportunities, right? I mean I

[1:33:05] think we need to we need to resolve it because that's the that's the elephant

[1:33:08] in the room with regard to making this budget or not in my view. I mean two

[1:33:12] cent leave it whatever it is that's where it's at. my perspective on that,

[1:33:17] knowing nothing about the candidates, wanting those programs, knowing and and

[1:33:21] when we did the community walk back in November, we got several pointed

[1:33:24] questions. You have these wonderful facilities. Why is no one using them?

[1:33:27] Right? And and and those are absolutely valid.

[1:33:31] But from my perspective today, for the next 12 months or or you

[1:33:36] know, the next six months or whatever whatever we're looking at what the

[1:33:39] budget's going to be for the next foreseeable

[1:33:42] future, we're asking these folks out here to either a open up their wallets

[1:33:48] and pay more taxes and or we're asking the folks in uniform out here to get a

[1:33:53] little bit less than they they thought they're going to get. But we're adding

[1:33:56] this position and we I know we didn't have the other the the mural position.

[1:34:01] She's been with us for a long time, right? And and we're not going to be

[1:34:03] able to do that right now, at least as as it was. I I just think it's it's a

[1:34:08] matter of who we have and who we know versus a hypothetical, and I'm just

[1:34:13] running the cost benefit for me. The benefit that that position may bring or

[1:34:18] probably will bring may well and I'd say probably will be offset by the detriment

[1:34:23] of some of these nice folks. may get offers elsewhere and they may go

[1:34:26] elsewhere and all the work that we've done and all the work that Mr. Francis

[1:34:29] has done and all the work that our chiefs have done to get these

[1:34:32] organizations where they need to be may begin to be undone and and I I'm I'm

[1:34:38] really worried about I really am I'm really worried about that. Um, and my

[1:34:43] thought is as much as I want that position, and I absolutely agree with

[1:34:46] you. I I think there's there's always a risk. Anytime you back up from doing

[1:34:49] something, there's a risk that just doesn't get done, right? We see that all

[1:34:51] the time. But from my perspective is that I'm really worried about the

[1:34:56] negative impact will offset, surpass, or exceed the the benefit, and then it

[1:35:03] becomes a detriment, right? And so I I just in my heart of hearts I believe

[1:35:08] really honestly not even related to whether we raise the tax rate or not.

[1:35:13] We're still asking these folks to to forestall that income benefit that they

[1:35:18] deserve. And if we're going to do that, I think we have to follow it up with

[1:35:21] with not moving forward with something else that we really want to do. It's

[1:35:24] that's a big chunk of of what we're asking the community to to invest in. So

[1:35:29] I just in my heart of heart I believe we just can't move forward that right now.

[1:35:33] and and maybe, you know, I know we we had a similar conversation last year

[1:35:36] this time. We said, "Well, we'll do it in January with with getting everything

[1:35:40] done and getting it posted. We're now back around a full year." And I I

[1:35:44] understand we may that may happen again. I I get that. Maybe not. Hopefully not.

[1:35:48] But but as it sits right now, I I just I I really believe we just we just can't

[1:35:54] take that risk that doing a good thing actually creates a a back and bad thing,

[1:36:00] right? Um, and and I do believe those folks

[1:36:04] need that answer. They deserve that whether we can do this or not. Um, and

[1:36:09] obviously I'm I'm one and if if you all feel differently, let's talk it out and

[1:36:14] and we'll accept it. But I'm just I mean and we will, right? I mean, you know,

[1:36:20] because ultimately we do need that position, but but these folks also need

[1:36:24] what they deserve and we're not going to be able to give it to them fully. And I

[1:36:29] think that that has to some some balance, right? That's just my fault. I

[1:36:35] hear you and I think you're exactly right. Except for the fact we're in a

[1:36:41] position where like it's all about compromise. It's all about figuring out

[1:36:46] here's my concern, right? As we said for several years, we need to do this. We've

[1:36:52] added facilities using OPM other people's money, not our

[1:36:56] tax taxpayers money. um they've gotten a whole lot of free infrastructure through

[1:37:03] other people's money. But now there is a time we've got to as a community and a

[1:37:08] taxpayer step up and actually fund what's going to help

[1:37:12] activate those spaces because to me people want to see a return on their

[1:37:18] investment, right? That's one of the clearest ways they're going to see

[1:37:22] return on their investment where they can come and participate in a concert, a

[1:37:26] free concert at the at the park when they can walk and stand back forest and

[1:37:31] have somebody that has done program when they can take their kids to activities

[1:37:36] and things like that. And those are things right now that by and large

[1:37:40] there's not a lot of that happen. Um and so to

[1:37:45] me I think they get more bang for their buck with that type of position than

[1:37:52] maybe in some other area. It's more visible. Maybe they're not more but it's

[1:37:55] more visible. It's more tangible. that they can can experience and touch and

[1:38:02] realize they're getting something for. Um, but I hear you right because

[1:38:08] I'm totally with you on making sure we're taking care of all of our staff.

[1:38:12] Um, and we've frozen some positions in some places.

[1:38:19] Um, I've got a big problem though continuing to kick the hand down early.

[1:38:24] That's uh that's where we lose momentum. That's where we backslide and that

[1:38:29] backsliding is your only concern. Well, you got that top-notch recreation

[1:38:34] committee ready to go, right? And I mean, we've got a super committee. A

[1:38:41] number of our grants have been based on the fact that, you know, we have we we

[1:38:45] will have advisory people, we will have program. to you know the points that

[1:38:51] we've gotten through some of those grants and then contingent on some of

[1:38:55] the projects that we plan to offer. Okay. I think everybody here agrees and

[1:39:01] might think that I'm against this recreation purp. No, I mean we've heard

[1:39:05] like heard I think everybody is. All right. So the next question is okay how

[1:39:12] we going to make up for 76,000? That's the question. It's not.

[1:39:18] Well, all right. So, I think the bigger question is we know how we're going to

[1:39:22] make up 76,000. Well, I mean, yes and no. Okay.

[1:39:26] Right. I think the bigger question here, and this is something that ultimately

[1:39:30] the board is going to have to vote on. I don't have a vote on it, so it's going

[1:39:34] to be up to y'all to decide is is you'll be the tiebreaker. Are you

[1:39:41] gonna vote on a twocent increase? you going to vote yes for that or are you

[1:39:46] going to say no, we want it to remain a flat tax rate? I mean and I think that's

[1:39:51] what it's going to come down to, right? So I think that's what you have to to

[1:39:55] know kind of and I think we know where generally folks stand on stuff. And so

[1:40:00] the question that Peter wants to know is are you prepared as a board to go into

[1:40:04] Tuesday to have that vote? You don't have to be unanimous on right don't.

[1:40:11] It's okay. I know we want to all be unanimous on it, but we've sat up here

[1:40:15] and we've talked through this and it's we we're doing the work that needs to be

[1:40:19] done, the discussion that needs to be done, but ultimately it's going to have

[1:40:22] to come down for a vote at some point. I can't agree with that, but it's just

[1:40:26] like Peter said, he's already put this person off one

[1:40:29] week. Definitely think we got to give this person an answer this coming week.

[1:40:35] Agree. If we don't, we don't look very good.

[1:40:40] And Peter, it's a reflection on Peter, unfortunately, because Peter's one of

[1:40:45] these people. So, I think we owe Peter uh an answer Tuesday night. I

[1:40:51] agree. Yeah, I do too. Thinking about it, I think we'll be ready.

[1:41:02] So, the question is, would you be prepared to vote on an ordinance before

[1:41:05] you Tuesday night? Either yes or no.

[1:41:11] So what you read that might change? It's pretty long.

[1:41:23] So I I think I would be if if it's an eitheror because if you if you reduce

[1:41:30] the the position that we've been talking about, if you don't

[1:41:35] hurt, she can't hurt. Um, if you reduce the the a the CAC and HBC 30,000 each,

[1:41:44] if you cut the Rusty homes in half, and if you

[1:41:50] if we're addressing us, which I think is 6 or 7,000, that's $78,000. And my

[1:41:54] math's rough, but I guess that's pretty close. And I think you said 383* 2 is 68

[1:42:00] is 76.

[1:42:07] So the way this would go I think is if you're voting on the ordinance before

[1:42:11] you if you vote yes then it's the majority votes no then what

[1:42:18] comes out is you have to provide some additional guidance to staff as to what

[1:42:22] you want them to do to get a budget and I think what you talk through

[1:42:29] might be what repeat that again so all right Well, yeah. If you cut the the

[1:42:35] the coordinator position where that's what 635 or 636 635.

[1:42:41] Okay. If you cut the 23,000s from the CAC, the CAC and the HBC, that's 6,000.

[1:42:47] If you cut Roughly Homes in half, that's 2,000. That's reflective of the data

[1:42:52] Peter had about the meals in the call. And if you we're addressing that that

[1:42:57] roughly third or whatever that we talked about earlier up here that's seven or

[1:43:02] thereabouts again again again rough math that's

[1:43:06] 7800 more

[1:43:10] now just keep in mind I I know every one of those things that you said has a

[1:43:15] direct and tangible benefit back to the No right we all we

[1:43:23] all Again, I think one of the few things we discussed, how does it relate to the

[1:43:29] majority of

[1:43:33] people segments of people and that's I think that's where

[1:43:39] we're trying to please as many people as possible. Well, everybody can take part

[1:43:44] for most folks in the recreational programs. Ry homes, we talked about

[1:43:50] senior population that we have. We have a large senior population who can take

[1:43:54] advantage of that and experience that. We have a large historic preservation

[1:43:59] district, the largest continuous district in the state, folks that could

[1:44:03] potentially take advantage of that. So these are programs that by and large

[1:44:07] most of our communities can access. I mean, you know, it's you look at you can

[1:44:12] see it both ways, right? So, so, so here is what my what I would

[1:44:17] propose to you is board to you got the staff recommendation. They put a whole

[1:44:23] lot of time and energy into providing a recommended budget to I would recommend

[1:44:28] that you consider that and vote on that on Tuesday. Be prepared to vote on that.

[1:44:33] Pending the result of that, it either passes with the two cent increase and

[1:44:39] the fee increases that have been proposed and the budget that's proposed

[1:44:43] or if it's voted down, then you go back and provide guidance to staff. And it's

[1:44:50] likely that we will have to have a follow-up meeting should it not pass to

[1:44:54] then time to present the new budget. But at that time then if if it were not to

[1:45:01] pass on Tuesday, you would know what you need to tell candidates for that new

[1:45:07] position. I mean I think that's the reasonable thing to do.

[1:45:12] Thank you.

[1:45:17] It's a lot. Thank y'all very much. Board will vote on it on Tuesday.

[1:45:24] The next thing we're going to move on unless anybody has anything else budget

[1:45:28] related. All right, we're going to move to an item on this year's budget. Um,

[1:45:34] and so Peter, I'll turn this over to you. Um, it's for consideration of a

[1:45:40] budget amendment related to replacement of a

[1:45:45] vehicle that was total. Yes. And uh, and Chief File is here, of

[1:45:51] course. Uh we talked about this a little bit a few weeks ago. We were working on

[1:45:55] finalizing the budget amendment for it and it's ready for you tonight. But we

[1:45:59] had a a vehicle that was identified that was involved in an accident earlier in

[1:46:03] the year and combined with uh insurance proceeds and some available funding

[1:46:10] within the existing police budget. uh we are able to if this budget amendment

[1:46:17] were approved tonight then Gile could move forward with replacing that vehicle

[1:46:22] with a available uh 2025 Ford Explorer for a cost of

[1:46:29] about 41,000 uh and then after the tax title and

[1:46:34] upfit the full cost is about $51,649.

[1:46:39] And so, as a reminder, we can let our public know that this was the result. It

[1:46:44] was bad guys fault that this wreck happened. Yes. Um and so, um it's

[1:46:50] unfortunate that it happened, but uh our police officers were doing what

[1:46:55] they do, protecting people.

[1:47:01] Unfortunately, it's just the part that

[1:47:07] sustain. So, you have budget ordinance

[1:47:13] 24-2. Are there any questions on

[1:47:18] this? And if not, is there a motion to adopt this?

[1:47:25] Motion by Is there a second? Second. Second by Mr. Miller. Any further

[1:47:30] discussion? Hearing none. All in favor? All opposed? Unless unanimous.

[1:47:37] Thank you all. We will now move to review of our June 10th agenda for

[1:47:42] Tuesday night. Um we'll uh do the call of order. Mayor

[1:47:47] Proin will be presiding on Tuesday night. Do we have a volunteer for the

[1:47:54] invocation? Oh my. All right, Mr. Mohammed. Thank you very much.

[1:47:59] Mayor Kim will do the pledge of allegiance. Then we'll have additions

[1:48:02] and deletions and adoption of the agenda. I see we have two additional

[1:48:06] items I believe Peter that you want added to the agenda related to uh mural

[1:48:12] work. Is that correct? Yes. And Anna, could you share the update on this one?

[1:48:18] Um I don't have a lot of information on it. Um it was last minute um addition

[1:48:26] that Scott was hoping to add. If not this month, then it could be pushed off

[1:48:32] next month. Um but she just asked that we put it before you all um and she

[1:48:37] would be on um on Zoom on Tuesday.

[1:48:45] But the the idea is that we have two concept art

[1:48:49] approvals for murals that do have existing grant funding available for

[1:48:54] them. All right, board. You want to receive an

[1:48:58] update on these items on Tuesday? Okay. All right. uh board. I would

[1:49:05] suggest that we add

[1:49:10] that as item I'd suggest we add that as item

[1:49:17] nine right after item eight which is where we're adopting a budget ordinance

[1:49:22] for a Woodson Foundation uh grant specific specific reporting approach.

[1:49:29] Does that work? Yeah. So these would be items 9 and

[1:49:39] Okay. All right. We uh do have a few a number of recognitions for end of year

[1:49:45] uh student awards from the town for both North Carolina Middle School. Um and

[1:49:51] then also for student quarter for the high school and the elementary school.

[1:49:56] Mayor Pim will be acknowledging those students. We have other any other

[1:50:01] recognitions that will be at Tuesday

[1:50:09] meeting. Okay. Hearing none, we'll have public comment and then we'll have our

[1:50:14] consent agenda. Um right now the only things on the consent agenda are

[1:50:18] approval of our minutes from May 8th um in pre-aggenda on May 13th meeting and

[1:50:23] our May 22nd uh budget uh workshop. So, as we go through tonight, if there's

[1:50:30] anything else you want to add to the consent agenda, please let me know. Um,

[1:50:35] and then so then item eight will be uh budget ordinance for the Margaret C.

[1:50:40] Woodson Foundation grant. Um, I suggest leaving that as a regular agenda item.

[1:50:45] Since Sky will be with us, she can give an update on that. Okay. Next would be

[1:50:49] to consider adopting the parks and recreation advisory board bylaws. I

[1:50:53] assume that Mr. Mars will be there to provide an update on that on Tuesday.

[1:50:58] Okay. And then we will consider adopting ordinance 25-10 which is the upcoming

[1:51:04] fiscal year budget that we talked about. All right. Um and then of course

[1:51:10] what we mentioned with the mural mural concept

[1:51:14] considerations and then beyond that we have our departmental reports. So it's a

[1:51:19] relatively light Tuesday light light and lean significant

[1:51:27] indecisions. Do I understand correctly that you're not going to leave here?

[1:51:31] Yeah, you do. Okay. Did you plan that? No, I did not.

[1:51:37] No, I did not. So in your tie breaker work has called me away. In your

[1:51:42] absence, who's the tie breaker? In my absence, there's not a tiebreaker.

[1:51:48] Mayor pro everybody gets to vote and so in the event that there is a tie you

[1:51:53] will have to reconvene and vote again unless someone decides to well actually

[1:51:59] I was going to say abstain from being service but that's not we have to

[1:52:10] unless you don't show up not encouraging show up

[1:52:18] All right. Um, departmental reports, town manager report, and then requesting

[1:52:23] comments from the board.

[1:52:26] Um, anything else?

[1:52:30] Okay. Um, so with that, is there a need this evening to go into executive

[1:52:35] session for any reason? I did have a comment to make about an

[1:52:42] event that will be happening before before Tuesday. Tuesday. Okay. Yeah. All

[1:52:46] right. Um and I hope you all got the message

[1:52:51] early this afternoon. Uh but the Department of Transportation has invited

[1:52:55] public officials throughout the town to uh participate or to attend a ceremony

[1:53:00] dedicating the Super Elizabeth do highway. Um and that's tomorrow June 6

[1:53:08] that u so if you got the information there is

[1:53:12] an RSVP on it. Um I have that RSVP to be there anybody else who is able to come

[1:53:21] is certainly welcome

[1:53:25] and I know that the Salsbury delegation had they had a group that was in Raleigh

[1:53:32] earlier yesterday. at the chamber. I think I got to meet

[1:53:38] with that's exciting and welldeserved honor to her. Another announcement

[1:53:46] that's going to happen before our meeting uh this

[1:53:49] Monday 5 to 8 community table community 10 table down here at

[1:53:55] Fleming from what I understand this year this time it's going to be a fish fry.

[1:54:01] So, it should be great. And uh the price is whatever you can pay. Now, the

[1:54:06] standard price is $15 and it's collected. That's per person, but anyone

[1:54:11] is invited whether you can pay that, more, or nothing. And there's no stigma.

[1:54:17] No one knows who's paid or anything, but it's a wonderful uh thing that's

[1:54:22] bringing the community together. So, please try to come and Pinocchio helps

[1:54:27] with it, too. They have put together this. I think this is number three or

[1:54:32] four. They It's always the second Monday of each

[1:54:36] month. So try to come. All right. We reach the end of tonight's

[1:54:43] agenda. Is there a motion to adjourn? So move. Motion by Mr. Mohammed. Is there a

[1:54:47] second? Second. Second by Mr. Miller. All in

[1:54:52] favor? Right. All opposed. All oppose. We stand. Thank you

[1:54:58] all very much.

Town of Spencer June 5, 2025 - Board of Alderman Pre-Agenda Meeting

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