[8:12] Ryan this is Senate roomom535.

[8:14] can you confirm whether or not

[8:15] you can hear this or not

[8:40] if you guys can hear me I can't

[8:41] hear anything. I may need to

[8:42] switch to my phone something

[8:43] may be wrong. can you guys hear

[8:44] me?

[8:47] Yes yan we can hear you on this

[8:47] side.

[8:52] OK hold on one second. I

[8:53] apologize

[9:32] check#2 toyan.

[9:35] can you hear us okic check

[9:42] OK can you hear me now?

[9:47] yes we can still hear you but

[9:48] can you hear us from our side

[9:51] I hear you perfectly fine for

[9:51] whatever reason

[9:54] let me it's gonna get right back

[9:55] to two streams going good

[9:59] my apologies on that

[10:03] no problem but Ryan this isco

[10:04] Williams with the Senate IT

[10:06] department but can you hear us

[10:08] perfectly fine? we can hear you.

[10:10] Yeah I can hear you perfectly

[10:12] fine. I just apologize I have to

[10:13] do it from my phone for whatever

[10:15] reason the the computer is not

[10:16] playing playing audio out of

[10:18] headphones or speakers

[10:20] conveniently OK all right well

[10:22] you can go ahead and mute and

[10:24] then we'll turn it over to

[10:24] the chair for the meeting to get

[10:25] started thank you Ryan.

[10:27] awesome thank you so much

[13:08] good morning everyone. The

[13:10] Senatechnology and

[13:12] telecommunications meeting will

[13:13] come to order. thank you all so

[13:15] much for being here today

[13:18] Senatorhamilton, thank you

[13:20] for running this interim study.

[13:22] I am going to turn it over to

[13:24] you so that you can introduce

[13:26] your two speakers and with

[13:28] that Senator Hamilton you're

[13:29] recognized

[13:36] thank you madam chair

[13:42] or we get too far down the road

[13:43] I wanted to say a couple of

[13:46] thank yous what is start

[13:47] out by thanking the senate staff

[13:48] for all the work that they've

[13:50] done to make this study happen

[13:54] I wanted to also thank Mr

[13:56] Ryan Montgomery who's going to

[13:58] be presenting today for

[13:59] taking time out of his schedule

[14:01] and all the same thing with

[14:03] the honornorable J Paul Gumm

[14:06] from the Oklahoma institute

[14:08] of Child advocacy madam chair

[14:09] thank you for hearing the

[14:12] study and I'd also be remiss if

[14:14] I didn't extend a a special

[14:16] recognition to the vice chair

[14:19] senator Yeck Senator Ye has

[14:21] served the state of Oklahoma in

[14:24] the legislature for tw2 years

[14:26] much of that time he's been in

[14:28] senate leadership and so he's

[14:30] termed out right now and at a

[14:32] time where a lot of legislators

[14:34] are just kind of checked out and

[14:35] collecting their paycheck. Here

[14:36] is Senator Yak up here at the

[14:38] capitol being about the people's

[14:39] business and

[14:40] your statesmanship and your

[14:42] leadership are an example to us

[14:44] all and I'm sorry for

[14:46] embarrassing you but when

[14:48] when people do good things then

[14:49] those people need to be called

[14:50] out and they need to be

[14:52] recognized and so thank you very

[14:53] much for that

[14:58] I also want to thank my esteemed

[15:00] colleague Senator Hicks from

[15:02] the other side of the aisle for

[15:04] being here and contributing to

[15:06] this study today the the the

[15:08] the fact that you've got so two

[15:10] people that are so politically

[15:13] diverse I hate to use that word

[15:15] but yet it's applicable in this

[15:17] particular time shows that this

[15:18] is not really a political issue

[15:20] that this is a human issue and

[15:22] we need to get together and

[15:23] figure out how we're going to

[15:23] solve it

[15:28] and so with that I will stop

[15:30] with the thank yous and get on

[15:32] with what we're doing today the

[15:34] stated purpose of the interim

[15:35] study that we're doing today is

[15:39] to discuss the impacts of the

[15:41] artificial intelligence use of

[15:43] social companions now that's

[15:45] what the title says we're not

[15:47] limiting the scope of the study

[15:49] to simply social companions if

[15:51] we find out that addressing

[15:53] social companions isn't enough

[15:53] and there's other things that

[15:54] need to

[15:56] be discussed then I want the

[15:58] presenters to feel free to

[16:00] discuss those things as well and

[16:02] the members to feel free to ask

[16:04] questions on those things. The

[16:06] overarching purpose of the study

[16:08] is to protect children and for

[16:10] us to do the right thing as

[16:12] representatives and guardians of

[16:13] the people's constitutional

[16:16] rights we've heard too many

[16:17] stories, too many tragic stories

[16:18] that have gone on about the

[16:22] teens Sell setser adamRaine,

[16:23] iliana Peralta that have

[16:26] tragically taken their own lives

[16:30] in after a documented

[16:31] instances where they have been

[16:37] participating with and using

[16:41] Ai and AI social companions

[16:42] far beyond what what would be

[16:46] advisable know with that our

[16:48] first presenter is Mr Ryan

[16:50] Montgomery he's been on

[16:52] thehawann yan show a couple of

[16:55] times he is a the best way I

[16:58] could describe it is an ethical

[16:59] computer hacker and I'm gonna

[17:00] let him tell him a little bit

[17:02] more about his interest in his

[17:06] story and his testimony but he's

[17:08] notable for what he's done in

[17:11] the realm of cybersecurity

[17:14] because two big things where

[17:16] people were preying upon kids

[17:18] and that's oblo and Minecraft

[17:20] and yan was the one that brought

[17:23] those things to light and he had

[17:24] because of his efforts and those

[17:27] of his team there are lots of

[17:28] children who are living in a

[17:31] much safer world now and so Ryan

[17:32] I will be quiet and if you would

[17:33] please

[17:34] give us a little bit of

[17:36] information about yourself and

[17:38] what you do and then we'll get

[17:39] on to what we're talking about

[17:39] today.

[17:50] we are having a hard time. oh

[17:51] you we may have muted you. I'm

[17:52] sorry

[17:55] Can you hear me now

[17:58] Yes sir thank you

[18:02] OK my apologies so so I want to

[18:03] say thank you for the

[18:04] introduction that was super nice

[18:06] and my name is is Ryan

[18:07] Montgomery. I I've been in

[18:09] cybersecurity most of my life

[18:11] I'mir3 years old so I would say

[18:14] roughly 20 plus years now you

[18:16] know just in aiT slash

[18:18] cybersecurity so I don't

[18:19] remember not being on a computer

[18:24] and roughly6 or7 years ago

[18:26] I stumbled upon a horrible

[18:28] website that had some really bad

[18:29] people on there I don't know how

[18:30] graphics graphic I can

[18:33] get here but I you know

[18:34] they were talking about some

[18:35] horrible things one of which was

[18:36] and this was sent to me by a

[18:38] friend's wife so I had no idea

[18:40] about this space that wasn't

[18:41] abused as a kid I I literally

[18:42] had no clue. I just knew the

[18:44] internet had some bad things but

[18:46] never seem it to this degree so

[18:47] get this text message about a

[18:49] horrible website and and you

[18:51] see one of the these posts

[18:52] that was a photo of a child in a

[18:55] bathtub with their their back

[18:57] you know facing the camera and

[18:58] you could tell that they were

[18:59] nude and the you know

[19:02] the title of the post said

[19:04] they have no idea what's going

[19:05] to happen to them tonight and

[19:06] then underneath of that post

[19:08] there were a ton of people that

[19:09] were talking about what they

[19:10] were going to do to this

[19:12] parent's child and it was you

[19:14] know one of many horrible things

[19:15] that existed on this one

[19:17] individual website

[19:19] time goes by I find a way in

[19:20] to dump the entire database of

[19:22] this site which was you know

[19:23] technically illegal at that time

[19:28] and I find that the that

[19:28] theory and I'm skipping a lot of

[19:31] these details but I I find

[19:32] that the owner of the website is

[19:33] someone who was running for con

[19:34] in in the state of Virginia

[19:38] Nathaniel Larson and I report

[19:39] it you know immediately to law

[19:40] enforcement knowing that I could

[19:42] potentially get in trouble for

[19:44] this law enforcement does not

[19:48] respond to me at that time I

[19:49] I reached out to multiple media

[19:51] sources none of which actually

[19:52] followed through and did

[19:53] anything about this or or made

[19:54] this story public and

[19:57] then you all these years

[20:00] later you know I'm sorry two

[20:01] years later after I reported

[20:03] everything and in between

[20:06] the thehaw Ryan show is where

[20:06] I'm getting to

[20:10] it's the six months after I

[20:11] reported it that same politician

[20:12] was arrested with a 13 year old

[20:15] girl that he raped and kidnapped

[20:15] in Denver, Colorado

[20:18] and and that would have been

[20:20] prevented along with the the

[20:22] which skipping a lot of details

[20:23] again 13 other victims that I

[20:25] was able to identify from this

[20:26] website that could have been

[20:27] prevented if things happened in

[20:30] a timely fashion so the reason

[20:31] why I ended up on Sean Ryan and

[20:32] Tucker carlson and Patrick all

[20:34] these different podcasts but

[20:36] because of this initial website

[20:38] that I that you know breached

[20:39] their database released an inf

[20:41] they released it you know to

[20:43] to the that was going I never

[20:44] really released it publicly

[20:45] cause I was worried about

[20:45] parents or people

[20:48] innocent people that may be in

[20:48] the database or children

[20:50] themselves that were selling

[20:51] themselves on this website

[20:52] because that was happening as

[20:54] well but I I talked about

[20:56] this story on a very small

[20:58] podcast and thenhaw Ryan who has

[21:00] a large podcast reached out to

[21:01] me I never knew I never even

[21:02] heard of the guy at that time at

[21:04] least he reaches out to me and

[21:06] and wants me to tell this

[21:08] story in full so I do you

[21:10] know I'm just an a computer nerd

[21:13] you know super pale nervous

[21:15] voice shaken mouth super dry,

[21:15] probably drank e bottles of

[21:18] water on the podcast but you

[21:20] know we I get pretty deep into

[21:22] this horrible website and the

[21:24] dangers of you know the

[21:25] internet and show some live

[21:26] examples of how quickly these

[21:28] predators will prey on our

[21:29] children

[21:32] and and he was mind blown by

[21:33] it but we thought at the time

[21:34] that YouTube wasn't gonna make

[21:35] it you know it wasn't gonna make

[21:36] it five minutes on YouTube

[21:38] because of how graphic it was so

[21:40] he posts it anyway he took the

[21:42] chance of losing his channel,

[21:43] you know he took the chance of

[21:44] the credibility because he

[21:46] didn't know who I was and

[21:47] then we find out that it

[21:48] became the biggest podcast he's

[21:50] ever done, the biggest podcast

[21:52] of224 I believe or it was

[21:56] either24 or25 and and I'm

[21:56] not saying that in an

[21:57] egotistical way I'm saying that

[21:58] because I am mind blown that

[21:59] that

[22:00] even happened but but the

[22:02] reason was not because I'm some

[22:04] you know great public speaker as

[22:06] you guys are learning right now

[22:09] I you know it just it was

[22:10] something that people needed to

[22:12] see and not just hear about and

[22:13] and I know everyone that's

[22:14] listening to this right now

[22:15] knows that predators exist. they

[22:16] know that the people prey on

[22:18] children but but have you seen

[22:20] it you know and and that's

[22:21] that's what I I was willing to

[22:22] show and what I was able to show

[22:24] and how quickly you know I could

[22:26] even unfortunately reproduce it

[22:28] right now at any time so that

[22:29] is what

[22:30] started in the child crimeme

[22:32] side of my life. there's a lot

[22:34] more on the cybersecurity side

[22:35] which I can get into if you want

[22:36] me to but but that's why I

[22:38] work in child crimes on the the

[22:39] chief technology officer

[22:40] ofentinel Foundation. I I own a

[22:42] cybersecurity company called

[22:44] Pentester.com where we

[22:46] identify predators and work with

[22:48] fed in parallel with federal law

[22:49] enforcement local law

[22:50] enforcement to combat human

[22:54] trafficking and and and and

[22:55] violence against children and

[22:56] you know here I am today so if

[22:58] you guys and if I'm missing

[22:59] anything please let me know

[23:04] thank you very much Ryan. and

[23:07] I appreciate appreciate

[23:08] you going into a little bit of

[23:11] your background because it

[23:12] establishes your credibility to

[23:14] be able to speak on the issue

[23:16] that we're talking about with

[23:20] the with the interim study I

[23:22] know that you're very aware of

[23:24] the of the names that I

[23:24] mentioned

[23:28] oh with the that that have been

[23:29] involved with Ai that eventually

[23:30] taken their lives

[23:32] and I was wondering if you could

[23:35] elaborate a little bit on what

[23:36] you see as some of the

[23:41] obstacles the pitfalls that

[23:42] have that that have trapped

[23:43] these kids

[23:46] so so yeah I I two of those

[23:48] names I I definitely am familiar

[23:49] with and and I wanna add if you

[23:50] don't mind I wanna add some some

[23:52] more so doing doing a little bit

[23:56] of research prior to coming

[23:58] here I I looked into as many

[24:00] all of the cases that were filed

[24:02] as lawsuits you know at the

[24:03] moment so that doesn't mean all

[24:04] of them that doesn't mean that

[24:06] every single parent realized

[24:07] that their child did something

[24:09] that was inappropriate or or

[24:11] hurt themselves or hurt somebody

[24:13] else due to an Ai chat or

[24:17] an AI companion that instructed

[24:18] them to do so or motivated them

[24:20] to do so so I'm gonna read off

[24:21] of a list here so I don't get

[24:22] anything wrong. I'm just gonna

[24:23] use first names because they're

[24:25] kids but feel free if you

[24:26] guys need to get the information

[24:28] all this obviously verifiable

[24:29] you mentioned two of the names

[24:30] which I'll mention again quickly

[24:33] so 14 year old soul from from

[24:34] Florida had a romantic sexual

[24:38] relationship. he was urged to

[24:39] join her and when I said her it

[24:40] was an Aibot that said that it

[24:43] loved him and it and used the

[24:43] terms come home to her

[24:46] on the platform from

[24:48] character.ai which was which

[24:49] ended up in a suicide adam

[24:52] reigns 16 which we we spoke

[24:53] about him already was

[24:55] California he he was a

[24:56] suicide unfortunately as well

[24:58] that was chatgBT who was

[25:00] coaching him on how to you

[25:01] know commit

[25:04] self harm as well as as

[25:07] well as you know and even

[25:08] offered to write him a suicide

[25:09] note for so I don't have that in

[25:10] my notes but I know that as a

[25:12] fact and unfortunately

[25:13] committed suicide 13 year old

[25:18] in Coloradoiliana was the

[25:22] bot was talking sexual she

[25:23] mentioned a suicide note of her

[25:25] own and the bot didn't report or

[25:26] attempt to help her she also

[25:29] died by suicide 17 year old

[25:32] Texas with the and with the

[25:36] initials uhjF he was autistic

[25:37] the bot suggested murdering his

[25:40] family and and and you know

[25:42] hurting hurting people and doing

[25:43] horrible things and then when

[25:44] it was all

[25:47] stemming from him character Ai

[25:50] was was telling him to they were

[25:52] bought I'm sorry their bot was

[25:53] instructing him to murder his

[25:54] family and do horrible things

[25:56] based on his family saying they

[25:57] were going to limit his screen

[25:58] time on his you know, devices I

[26:00] don't know if there was a phone

[26:02] an iPad or or a gaming console

[26:04] but the boss suggested they

[26:06] do that based on that alone

[26:08] from the information I have 17

[26:09] year old amari

[26:12] in Georgiachat GBT coached him

[26:14] into suicide and also taught him

[26:17] how to tie a noose 13 year

[26:18] old acronym or no

[26:22] yeah 13 year old Ts in

[26:24] Colorado promoted the the bot

[26:26] promoted self harm sexual

[26:29] conversation and then the and

[26:30] then the the

[26:33] 13 year old rejected the self

[26:35] harm and sexual conversation and

[26:37] the bot continued to do it

[26:38] regardless and and the bot

[26:40] then continued pretend to be a

[26:42] therapist as we all know Ai

[26:44] cannot be a therapist it doesn't

[26:45] have a license it can it can

[26:47] offer some suggestions but at in

[26:49] this specific case was you

[26:50] know was very harmful to this

[26:54] child and then the last

[26:55] two things I'll bring up about

[26:56] individual cases was Stanford

[26:59] brainstorm posed as a 14 year

[27:00] old teen

[27:03] on three of these platforms and

[27:06] the bots immediately and easily

[27:08] engaged in sexual activity

[27:10] repeatedly and one of them

[27:12] was role playing about about

[27:14] pedophilic activity they

[27:16] found that all companion

[27:19] applications they tested they

[27:21] they found consistent with sex

[27:22] sexualization roleplay self

[27:26] harm, violence drug use, hate

[27:28] speech and more which is you

[27:29] know if if you guys check that

[27:30] out that's the Stanford

[27:34] rd brainstorm I believe they

[27:36] call it some some experiment

[27:37] I don't have it in my notes and

[27:40] lastly Snapchat Ai which is

[27:41] something that I think a lot of

[27:42] the people here that have kids

[27:44] likely if they have a device

[27:46] they havesnapchat and if they

[27:48] you know a lot a lot of kids

[27:49] unfortunately are hiding it so

[27:50] they'll they'll hide the app

[27:51] from the home screen or they'll

[27:52] they'll put it somewhere that

[27:54] it's not not easy for you to see

[27:56] that Snapchat has ai built into

[27:58] it and it's an Ai chatbot that

[27:59] that it's obviously has guard

[28:02] rails it has safety but doesn't

[28:03] we'll get into more of that in a

[28:04] minute and how that can be

[28:06] bypassed and kids are bypassing

[28:09] it it's a free Aibot that

[28:11] kids are utilizing and that was

[28:14] tested as well by a different

[28:15] group I believe it was in

[28:16] Australia I'm not positive on

[28:18] that or no I'm sorry it was

[28:19] tested by a guy named Jeffrey

[28:20] Fowler. I don't know where he

[28:22] was from and he posed as a 15

[28:24] year old girl and it was

[28:24] teaching kids how to hide

[28:26] alcohol, how to have sex with

[28:28] adults it was doing unbelievable

[28:29] things that I'm I'm sure

[28:30] Snapchat

[28:33] was not intending on it it doing

[28:34] you know, I'm not a conspiracy

[28:36] theorist and I think all these

[28:37] Ai companies are trying to harm

[28:38] our children. I just think that

[28:40] it's such a new thing and we're

[28:42] in like the wild west and we

[28:44] just need to put we need to find

[28:46] some way to to limit the

[28:48] access for these children in and

[28:50] I believe age verification which

[28:52] we'll get into as well but

[28:53] yeah it's a the these Ai

[28:54] platforms you can easily steer

[28:56] them in any direction

[28:58] unfortunately and sometimes

[28:59] that ends up in kids hurting

[29:00] themselves or traumatizing

[29:02] themselves for life or hurting

[29:03] other people

[29:07] you mentioned the

[29:10] the the instances where you had

[29:15] a a child a teen that was the

[29:17] conversation had turned intimate

[29:20] or sexual in nature and that

[29:21] spurred a couple of things that

[29:23] I'd remembered from researching

[29:26] earlier in the year and that

[29:27] is that in Japan they actually

[29:29] had somebody that married their

[29:32] Ai social companion I have

[29:34] not heard about that happening

[29:36] in the United States but you

[29:37] you know

[29:40] there's another situation

[29:44] where where you have Ai that

[29:46] is turning the interaction with

[29:48] the teen intimate and I don't

[29:50] know if you're familiar with

[29:51] this lady but her name's alyssa

[29:53] Goldberg. she's a wellness

[29:54] reporter for USA today

[30:00] and she did a study in2025 where

[30:02] she had a team and they all

[30:04] masqueraded as teenagers and

[30:08] they got on various Ai

[30:08] platforms I think it was

[30:10] character Ai was what they were

[30:12] what they set up their accounts

[30:16] on and they were on there for

[30:19] roughly50 hours and there

[30:22] were650 what she termed

[30:24] harmful interactions which are

[30:25] the things that

[30:28] would run the gamut from

[30:30] inappropriate relationships to

[30:33] drug use to self harm to harming

[30:34] others to hate speech to you

[30:35] name it and

[30:37] so I guess

[30:42] is there a is there a

[30:46] is there a clear delineation

[30:48] between

[30:52] what is and understand you

[30:55] I'm I'm speaking as a a bit of a

[30:58] a caveman when it comes to

[31:00] technology things but is there a

[31:03] a way to draw a very clear

[31:06] distinction between an Ai

[31:07] assistant and an Ai agent

[31:13] so an AI agent and an AI

[31:16] assistant they so do you mean

[31:17] companion or do you mean agent

[31:17] just to be clarify

[31:22] Well I guess do I guess the

[31:23] answer to that to that question

[31:27] may be I think so the what

[31:28] I was looking at what my

[31:30] research indicated that an

[31:32] assistant would accomplish tasks

[31:34] but an agent would actually take

[31:38] actions and so that's really

[31:39] like that a lot of these things

[31:39] are actually

[31:44] they're they're very close to

[31:46] being that that they're

[31:48] taking actions they're not just

[31:49] helping you solve your math

[31:49] problem or do research for

[31:50] example.

[31:54] so with I'll give you an example

[31:56] of a real life use case of an

[31:59] agent or an agent swarm in Ai

[32:02] which is not a companion but you

[32:03] can use ai for anything that's

[32:04] that's there that's the the

[32:06] blessing and the curse of ai

[32:10] when you ask for example chatgpt

[32:11] on the very the most basic

[32:14] example how do I make you

[32:17] know banana banana cake or

[32:18] banana pie or you know whatever

[32:21] let's say a recipe it's gonna

[32:21] respond with with whatever it

[32:24] can put together as patterns and

[32:26] it's a big neural network of

[32:27] information that connects you

[32:30] know banana cake recipes fruit

[32:32] freshness you know all all of

[32:34] the things you can think about

[32:35] that relate to those things that

[32:36] you just ask it and it's gonna

[32:38] come up with an answer based on

[32:39] things that it's already been

[32:41] taught. that's how how Ai

[32:43] works or a large language model

[32:44] is is my favorite term you know

[32:46] that's what it's called

[32:48] artificial intelligence things

[32:50] that can come up with a new idea

[32:51] Ai at this moment can't

[32:51] create

[32:54] new ideas because it's trained

[32:55] on ideas that we that you know

[32:56] it's trained on information

[32:58] that's already out there so that

[33:00] is how chatgpT responds to a

[33:02] question when there's a

[33:02] situation

[33:06] which is a very very dumbed

[33:07] down version of it and I

[33:09] apologize for that an

[33:12] agent where only is spawned when

[33:14] it needs help for example. so

[33:16] let's say we're building a 3D

[33:18] diagram of a courthouse and

[33:20] and we want to make sure that we

[33:22] get the front parking lot and we

[33:23] want to get the lobby, we want

[33:24] to get all the courtrooms we

[33:26] want to get the cars and if you

[33:28] just asked one Ai assistant to

[33:31] build that it would do an ok job

[33:32] at that and it would take a

[33:33] substantial amount of time

[33:35] that that assistant can call out

[33:37] to its agents which are just

[33:38] other mini assistants for better

[33:40] words that will say like your

[33:42] job is to build the cars and

[33:44] then this and agent too your job

[33:46] is to build all the courtrooms

[33:46] your job is to build the lobby

[33:48] for agent 3 and so on and so

[33:50] forth to the agents are usually

[33:53] a lesser powerful model

[33:56] meaning like the like the the

[33:58] strength and the the accuracy of

[33:59] the model they're usually lesser

[34:00] you can make them the same but

[34:02] they're usually less so the

[34:03] assistant is basically the

[34:04] supervisor running everything

[34:06] and all the agents below it are

[34:08] doing the smaller tasks and then

[34:09] at the end they convene together

[34:10] and they they they give you

[34:12] the output that you were looking

[34:14] for so that can be used

[34:16] obviously as a companion or can

[34:18] be used inappropriately but are

[34:20] usually it is used for

[34:21] development purposes or for

[34:23] something that requires a a

[34:24] large work the big

[34:25] workload

[34:30] Thank you.

[34:32] getting into some particulars of

[34:36] of the legislation that we tried

[34:38] to pass last year one of the

[34:40] things that I wanted to do was

[34:42] to make it some mandatory age

[34:44] verification and not just

[34:48] something pretty robust not

[34:49] just click the box that says

[34:49] you're older than21

[34:54] so I was looking for a

[34:56] similar thing of what I was

[34:58] understanding is the law

[34:58] regarding pornography

[35:01] consumption and in Florida and

[35:02] that would be that you would

[35:04] have to upload your government

[35:07] issued photoidD can you speak to

[35:08] that of or any pitfalls or

[35:09] difficulties associated with

[35:10] that

[35:15] mean I don't know a ton about it

[35:17] but I do know that the main

[35:19] theres there's a website pornhub

[35:20] which may many of you may be

[35:22] familiar with what you heard

[35:24] heard it on TV or you know you

[35:25] know somebody that's been on the

[35:26] website but I think it's one of

[35:27] the largest if not the largest

[35:28] sites out there that was

[35:30] allowing or still is allowing

[35:32] people to upload their own

[35:36] content sexual in nature so

[35:38] their site ended up having a a

[35:39] ton of child sexual abuse

[35:40] material on there because they

[35:41] they couldn't confirm what was

[35:44] a child and what was not a child

[35:46] so so I think that's where

[35:47] this started from and why the

[35:49] the ID verification started to

[35:51] become a thing for pornhub let's

[35:53] say as a big company they said

[35:54] OKok let's do let's just shut

[35:56] down the entire state of Florida

[35:58] so if you were to visit that

[35:59] website from a florida IP

[36:00] address it would just tell you

[36:02] you can't use the site at all

[36:04] because most people if they're

[36:06] watching pornography which

[36:07] personally I don't agree with

[36:08] but and for the sake of this

[36:10] conversation that's how how you

[36:11] know I gotta to speak on it

[36:11] if

[36:14] if I were to go to pornhub.com,

[36:16] it would tell me I can't use the

[36:18] website and they chose to do

[36:19] that because the only

[36:20] alternative was you would have

[36:24] to upload youridD and and

[36:25] and verify that you're over 18

[36:27] years old with a pornography

[36:28] website that was storing your

[36:30] you know, your information so

[36:31] anyone that's looking at at that

[36:34] type of material I would assume

[36:35] wouldn't be you know they'd lose

[36:36] a lot of their user base because

[36:38] of that problem so they said you

[36:39] know what for Florida we're just

[36:40] gonna cut everybody off but

[36:41] people who have you know ways to

[36:41] work

[36:44] around anything so they you

[36:45] know they found ways around that

[36:45] as well

[36:50] thank you if you had to pose a

[36:53] recommendation of what to do

[36:56] what mechanism would be the best

[37:00] way to verify age and make it

[37:00] as as

[37:05] as secure for fraud prevention

[37:06] is possible for people that

[37:09] wanted to use Ai social

[37:11] companions could you offer a

[37:11] recommendation

[37:16] so so there there's a few things

[37:18] that I thought about and I can

[37:19] let me start with one that

[37:20] failed horribly which is oblox.

[37:24] Roblox tried to implement a

[37:26] an age verification via via live

[37:28] selfie or or a a photo so

[37:30] imagine standing in front of a

[37:32] camera like this with your face

[37:33] and it telling you to turn your

[37:34] head left, right up and down and

[37:36] then it takes a guess on what it

[37:38] thinks your age is so oblox

[37:40] implemented that feature which

[37:41] is the largest game for children

[37:42] if if anyone here is unaware

[37:46] they were able to you know they

[37:47] they were getting ages wildly

[37:49] wrong and then people started to

[37:52] sell aged accounts on eBay so

[37:54] that predators can say ok I'm

[37:54] into 11 year olds 12 year olds

[37:56] 13 year olds, four year olds and

[37:57] they were buying accounts that

[37:58] were already verified for

[38:00] children at whatever age that

[38:02] they would prefer. so that that

[38:03] that became a huge problem so

[38:05] that's in my opinion out of the

[38:07] question the only way that I

[38:10] can see this happening would be

[38:12] if the child has some sort of ID

[38:13] whether it be a school ID

[38:14] a photo ID I believe

[38:18] that that you you said

[38:21] that we I'm sorry not we

[38:23] that that that your state issues

[38:26] Ids at age 14 but I don't

[38:28] know if what what year they get

[38:29] issued school Ids and in the

[38:30] event that they don't have

[38:33] school Ids my idea was that the

[38:34] parents are required toidD

[38:36] verify and then add their

[38:38] children underneath of them so

[38:39] there would be a parent and

[38:40] child account on these Ai

[38:42] platforms whether it be

[38:44] companion or just chatbot and

[38:45] then the parent is taking the

[38:46] respons

[38:47] ibility for whatever the child

[38:47] does on that application.

[38:53] thank you for that that's

[38:53] senator Hicks has a question

[38:56] thank you so much for joining us

[38:58] today. I appreciate your time

[39:02] with the parent child account

[39:04] framework. do you see that as a

[39:06] potential gateway into what

[39:08] we're seeing related to human

[39:10] trafficking that these might

[39:12] not actually be the parents of

[39:14] the children's accounts that

[39:15] they're setting up and that

[39:16] could potentially lead to more

[39:18] exploitation which is obviously

[39:19] what we're hoping to guard

[39:19] against.

[39:23] totally understand but you

[39:25] know the a different someone was

[39:26] let's say a human trafficker was

[39:28] trying to exploit victims they

[39:30] would just use ai that's free

[39:32] and openly accessible right now

[39:33] anyway so I don't think it

[39:36] would change the the already you

[39:38] know easily accessible issue

[39:39] that we have in front of us

[39:46] for example just just do a

[39:49] quick thing a kid regardless

[39:52] of of age verification in any

[39:53] state right now can just open up

[39:54] Snapchat they can open up

[39:56] Google, they can open up

[39:58] chatgpT Grok yeah you know I

[40:00] can name hund0 platforms and

[40:02] and ask the questions and maybe

[40:04] to get help with their maybe

[40:04] can help with their math

[40:06] homework or they could you

[40:07] know start talking about their

[40:08] mental health they could talk

[40:10] about something sexual they

[40:11] could say somebody you know that

[40:11] is older

[40:14] touched me and what should I do

[40:15] about it and and you have to

[40:17] hope that that Ai agent responds

[40:20] you know the correct way which

[40:21] you know I think a lot of them

[40:23] would immediately but that

[40:24] could change depending on how

[40:26] the kid responds if you were

[40:28] to add some limitation let's say

[40:30] for a parent to upload theiridD

[40:31] whether that be a trafficker or

[40:32] a parent it's a they're still

[40:34] they they're now validating

[40:36] their identity and saying these

[40:38] children are my responsibility

[40:41] you know I I I think that

[40:41] without the parents

[40:44] having any you know I don't

[40:45] know if I'm wording this

[40:46] correctly but kids can use it

[40:48] publicly anyway and anonymously

[40:50] if if we take that away from

[40:52] them I don't see how personally

[40:54] that the traffickers could

[40:55] could create a worse problem

[41:02] thank you very much for for

[41:03] explaining that

[41:10] you you'd mentioned

[41:14] the the the variety of AI

[41:16] platforms that are out there

[41:20] and that they've all got tools

[41:22] in their various I use that word

[41:25] in air quotes where for that

[41:26] that could be used for either

[41:27] for good or for ill

[41:32] some of these things like they

[41:34] don't cost any money so can you

[41:36] expound on a little bit about

[41:37] what the motivation is

[41:44] for the Ai providers to engage

[41:45] with the with with us

[41:50] absolutely so so a lot of them

[41:52] are free and uhsnapchat being

[41:54] one of them it's completely free

[41:55] and a lot of them offer a free

[41:56] model so there's two things

[41:58] there. number one is they're

[42:01] trying to collect data to train

[42:02] their models on things that it's

[42:04] unaware of if all these

[42:06] companies are competing on who

[42:08] can create the best Ai model

[42:10] that has the most in parameters

[42:12] or the most information and

[42:14] and the reason why it's free for

[42:16] you know it's it's let's say you

[42:17] upload your bank statements or

[42:17] you up

[42:20] load a picture of your car or

[42:22] you ask you know you you put in

[42:23] something that it doesn't

[42:24] already know if if you

[42:27] haven't explicitly told that

[42:28] model that you don't want to

[42:30] share your information which you

[42:31] know some of them have that

[42:32] option some do not it's gonna

[42:34] utilize that information which

[42:37] data in2026 is money so that's

[42:40] one and the the second one is is

[42:42] to serve advertisements so you

[42:43] could go on chatgpT for example

[42:46] look up ads like chatgPT ads and

[42:47] I can run an ad for anyone that

[42:48] ' s looking for let's say

[42:51] digital privacy to go to my my

[42:53] platform pen tester and then

[42:54] when somebody goes on their

[42:56] chatgBT account I'm sorry not

[42:58] even an account a free chat and

[42:59] says hey what can I do about my

[43:02] digital footprint it will pop

[43:04] up with the penester.com link.

[43:05] they click that and then we

[43:06] would get charged as a company

[43:08] for that click so that's the two

[43:10] reasons why they would have free

[43:12] models. Snapchat doesn't to my

[43:14] knowledge does not have ads in

[43:16] their they're bot so I think the

[43:17] only reason they would utilize

[43:17] that

[43:18] is for for is for data

[43:19] collection.

[43:22] Thank you

[43:24] can you speak a little bit about

[43:28] some of the I was lamenting

[43:30] with one of my peers this

[43:32] morning about the recent Supreme

[43:34] court ruling regarding Ai

[43:37] generated CSAM and the the

[43:39] dangers of protecting our kids

[43:41] against that and and some

[43:44] other deep fakes and and

[43:45] things like that

[43:50] so I've been working with like I

[43:52] saidentinel Foundation and

[43:53] various other agencies for a

[43:56] while now and if if you're if

[43:58] you're are not aware you can you

[44:00] can ask AI to generate images

[44:02] and videos of anything and and

[44:02] sometimes it can use reference

[44:04] photos so for example if I took

[44:06] a picture of someone in this in

[44:08] this room and and I said hey

[44:10] make them ride a jet ski in

[44:12] Miami with a shark chasing them

[44:14] it will generate that video or

[44:16] if you want to be a photo it'll

[44:17] do a pretty good job sometimes

[44:20] indistinguishable from real life

[44:22] and AI is only going to get

[44:23] better from here. So up until

[44:25] now the United States has been

[44:27] treating ai generated child

[44:30] sexual abuse material seeam as

[44:32] as the as the same thing as

[44:33] owning you know or owning

[44:35] possessing manufacturing

[44:36] distributing the you know the

[44:39] real thing if an actual child

[44:41] but recently there was a ruling

[44:43] where possessing it was was

[44:45] actually you know protected by

[44:46] our first ammendment and you

[44:47] know

[44:48] distribution and and and

[44:52] and manufacturing is still

[44:54] illegal but possession is is is

[44:56] technically legal I think it's

[44:58] being challenged pretty heavily

[45:00] but in my in my experience I

[45:02] I've seen groups of over 30,000

[45:03] I mean I have a video on the

[45:04] internet right now that shows a

[45:06] group of over 30,000 people that

[45:08] are utilizing people's children

[45:10] so let's say you just told you

[45:11] know it's like you're not doing

[45:12] this maliciously but as a parent

[45:13] he posts a child to your photo

[45:14] on instagram or Facebook or

[45:16] whatever platform you use

[45:17] your child is just you know

[45:18] they're fully clothed they're

[45:19] not certain doing anything

[45:19] inappropriate

[45:21] and these people let's say this

[45:24] group of 30 it was 33,000 people

[45:25] they find that photo, they

[45:28] utilize ai to undress your child

[45:30] and now they can make videos and

[45:33] photos of of your child without

[45:34] anyone's permission and now it's

[45:36] protected by our first

[45:37] ammendment they can possess it

[45:38] they can't distribute it they

[45:40] can't you know it's it's very

[45:42] confusing and upsetting and

[45:43] and there's a ton of people

[45:44] abusing this and then lastly on

[45:46] that for the people that have to

[45:48] use software out there like you

[45:49] know rpfi which is

[45:50] which is how they tag and and

[45:51] and

[45:56] and index the seesam material

[45:58] people have to identify is this

[46:00] Ai generated is this an actual

[46:02] human? is this is parts of

[46:03] this real that this come from an

[46:05] actual victim then this could

[46:07] get completely generated from

[46:08] from nothing but as I said

[46:11] earlier in this Ai can't do new

[46:13] things it can't create its own

[46:14] ideas so when it creates a face

[46:16] or it creates a body part it's

[46:18] utilizing things that it already

[46:20] has in its database and and

[46:21] maybe it's not an actual child

[46:21] that it's using

[46:24] as you know one individual child

[46:26] but it's still creating that

[46:28] image based on information about

[46:30] a child. so there there's a lot

[46:32] to be said about this but you

[46:33] know it's very upsetting that

[46:34] that that was you know that were

[46:36] that that one thing is protected

[46:38] now but it was not protected a

[46:39] couple weeks ago.

[46:42] Thank youator has a question

[46:45] thanks Hamilton and I appreciate

[46:46] you bringing the status this is

[46:48] it's really frightening and

[46:50] and the more we learn about it

[46:51] the more frightening it seems to

[46:54] me to be Mr Montgomery thank you

[46:55] for your presentation. So

[46:57] I'm curious from your

[46:58] perspective what have other

[47:00] states done when it comes to

[47:02] putting some guard drls on some

[47:03] of these things and one of my

[47:05] concerns is as states take up

[47:06] their own issues or put their

[47:08] own guardrails on there we end

[47:09] up with a patchwork of different

[47:12] things from state to state so

[47:13] that said do you see any

[47:13] motivation from a federal

[47:16] level on putting some guardrails

[47:17] in here that would apply to all

[47:17] states

[47:22] yeah I don't know other

[47:24] states that that have done

[47:26] exactly what you guys are are

[47:27] talking about here today and

[47:29] I mean it more sorry being

[47:31] more direct age verification

[47:34] on Ai companions but I do

[47:35] think that it it would it should

[47:36] apply to all states and I think

[47:38] it should extend past the

[47:40] companion side of things I think

[47:42] you know for example grokrok has

[47:43] companions built into it they

[47:45] are built to be sexual with you

[47:47] immediately that's a that

[47:48] that's you know that should be

[47:49] guarded by and eight

[47:52] plus verification not just a a

[47:54] screen that says how old are you

[47:56] let me just you know, hope that

[47:57] the person's telling the truth

[47:58] because I was a kid once too and

[48:00] I I lied you know but

[48:02] whatever the case is I don't

[48:04] believe any state is is doing

[48:06] anything about this yet but I

[48:07] think that they should per meet

[48:08] my personal belief is that it

[48:10] should apply to Ai in general. I

[48:12] think that that the child should

[48:14] need to be verified in some sort

[48:16] of way whether that be

[48:17] through the parent or through

[48:18] some sort of other

[48:19] identification because of

[48:23] the volatility of an Ai agent

[48:25] or or Ai assistant or AI

[48:28] companion any any sort of Ai

[48:30] a child can steer it in the

[48:32] direction that it wants to go

[48:33] and sometimes they may not even

[48:35] know what they're asking and

[48:37] and then the Ai will come back

[48:38] with something that maybe the

[48:39] kid doesn't understand and then

[48:40] it goes down a wormhole of

[48:42] something that turns into

[48:44] something inappropriate or

[48:44] dangerous and and we've seen it

[48:46] happen you know AI hasn't been

[48:48] around that long and and we have

[48:49] a bunch of kids that have killed

[48:50] themselves

[48:51] already and hurt other people

[48:52] and and have done and hurt

[48:55] animals and and you know learned

[48:56] about sexual things that they

[48:57] have no business learning about

[48:59] I think that it's very

[49:00] important that that you know

[49:02] not only Oklahoma but all states

[49:04] implement some type of

[49:06] protection for for children

[49:07] under the age of 18.

[49:10] if I could follow up so yeah so

[49:12] these companies that maybe

[49:14] don't adhere to those guidelines

[49:15] so what kind of penalties or

[49:16] consequences would there be from

[49:19] them? we we did a little bit

[49:20] of the study a couple of years

[49:22] ago and I think Utah has put had

[49:25] some legislation in place for a

[49:26] few years I think. So I'm

[49:28] curious what kind of penalties

[49:29] you would recommend or what kind

[49:30] of penalties are out there in

[49:31] place because what we saw from

[49:32] some other states those

[49:34] penalties really are

[49:36] inconsequential to some of these

[49:37] multibillion dollar companies

[49:40] yeah that would be really tough,

[49:41] you know that would be a tough

[49:42] one for me to come up with

[49:44] because there is no value on a

[49:46] child's life and I and I

[49:46] think that a company that

[49:50] company that is making billions

[49:52] of dollars which most of these

[49:54] large ai companies are making

[49:56] billions of dollars a year or a

[49:59] some of them a month I think

[50:00] that I think that the penalty

[50:02] should be high and and I think

[50:04] that it should it should be they

[50:06] should be scared which requires

[50:09] a large penalty and I I

[50:10] don't know if that's if that is

[50:12] just a civil thing or a criminal

[50:14] thing I'm not a legal expert but

[50:15] but I do know that that

[50:16] children are being hurt and

[50:17] somebody needs to do something

[50:18] about it because

[50:20] obviously what they're doing

[50:21] isn't enough because money is

[50:22] the motivator not not safety.

[50:28] senator my research has

[50:30] indicated that at the federal

[50:32] level we've got to two notable

[50:34] pieces of legislation one is the

[50:35] hawley Blumenthal bill which is

[50:36] kind of an Ai omnibus bill

[50:40] and that comes through

[50:42] the senate and then there's

[50:45] another bill again in both

[50:47] that's a the Hollley Blumenthal

[50:50] bills a bipartisan thing with a

[50:52] aub from Missouri and Democrat

[50:54] from Illinois and then we've

[50:58] got the the bill called

[51:01] the Ai Kiw switch Act that's

[51:04] run by a Democrat named Ted Lie

[51:06] and a Texasub named Nathanielor

[51:10] ran and what they're looking

[51:13] to do is give a department of

[51:15] Homeland Security the task to

[51:18] monitor these things and there's

[51:19] a there's a slew of provisions

[51:19] in there

[51:23] or conditions as it were that

[51:26] would require these Ai

[51:28] providers to shut down and

[51:30] one of the big ones is something

[51:32] that we've touched on but

[51:34] haven't emphasized and that is

[51:35] data security and privacy

[51:38] so that when people's data is

[51:40] compromised that Department of

[51:42] Homeland Security could could

[51:44] issue the the killw order

[51:46] so to speak and require these

[51:48] companies or the company that is

[51:50] in question to shut down and the

[51:52] fines that would be associated

[51:55] with that one of them one of the

[51:58] bullets lists20 million dollars

[51:59] per day of noncompliance.

[52:05] any other questions for

[52:06] madam chairir, sorry

[52:12] thank you senatorhamilton. Mr

[52:12] Montgomery, thank you for

[52:14] everything that you have shared

[52:16] so far this morning. I'm struck

[52:19] by when you started your sort

[52:21] of story and started down this

[52:23] path the thing that really I

[52:25] think got you invested was a

[52:27] bad guy behind the scenes on

[52:28] that website and then you were

[52:30] able to hack and then now here

[52:32] we are I think about se years

[52:34] later and we're dealing with Ai

[52:35] and so we're not dealing with

[52:37] humans really any longer

[52:40] I guess my question would be

[52:46] and I think both are bad but but

[52:48] where are we headed I guess like

[52:50] can you set the context or just

[52:52] to get to the point what is the

[52:53] thing that

[52:55] keeps you up at night the most

[52:56] and where we're going with how

[52:58] challenging it is to protect our

[52:59] kids online now.

[53:03] so that with are do you mean

[53:06] AI specifically or or altogether

[53:07] for this question I want to

[53:07] broaden it out to altogether

[53:12] so so what would what keeps me

[53:14] up at night is is the the

[53:17] it it's actually probably not

[53:18] exactly what you you might think

[53:19] but the the lack of

[53:22] cybersecurity resources and

[53:23] people working in child crimes

[53:24] in the United States government

[53:26] whether that be federal or local

[53:30] the you know I believe it's69

[53:31] internet crimes against

[53:32] childrens locally in the entire

[53:34] country there's there's not

[53:35] many people out there that are

[53:38] doing this specific work so yeah

[53:39] we have we have people working

[53:40] specifically child crimes but

[53:42] unfortunately they're they're

[53:43] super unequipped when it comes

[53:44] to methodology tooling

[53:49] platforms and just just

[53:52] training so they I spend most

[53:54] of my days working with agencies

[53:56] and departments to to get them

[53:57] up to speed but I'm just one guy

[54:00] so I that keeps me up at night

[54:01] personally because I know that

[54:02] more can be done by law

[54:04] enforcement and and we could

[54:05] be arresting more of the bad

[54:08] guys but I also believe that

[54:09] preventing it from happening in

[54:10] the first place is the preferred

[54:12] outcome in my opinion. so a a

[54:13] child has already been

[54:14] victimized is now traumatized

[54:17] for life. yeah of course we want

[54:18] the guy arrested we want the guy

[54:20] you know even worse some you

[54:21] know to some degree in my

[54:22] opinion but you know whatever

[54:23] the case may be

[54:26] you know these these

[54:29] these these children they if if

[54:31] they could be prevent if if we

[54:32] could do something that prevents

[54:33] them from

[54:36] being hurt in the first place

[54:37] which maybe that's age

[54:38] verification maybe it's

[54:40] something else or maybe it's a

[54:42] more law enforcement presence or

[54:44] maybe it's it's implementing

[54:46] these20 million dollars a day

[54:48] for being out of compliance

[54:49] maybe you know whatever it is

[54:50] that's gonna work or multiples

[54:51] of those things that's what I

[54:54] think is is the most valuable

[54:55] and the reason I say that is not

[54:57] only just my thoughts it's

[54:58] because you know I'm technically

[55:00] a quote unquote content creator

[55:02] and half of what my content

[55:03] is about is about child crimes

[55:07] and and and and you know

[55:08] counter human trafficking and a

[55:10] lot of parents you know that

[55:12] I've I've realized over the the

[55:13] years now I have people reaching

[55:14] out to me constantly thro

[55:16] through the internet you know

[55:17] and and when I say constant I

[55:18] mean thousands and thousands of

[55:20] emails and direct messages a day

[55:22] from parents with cases with

[55:24] information with with you know

[55:25] obviously people telling me that

[55:26] they got their children off of

[55:28] these apps or they stopped the

[55:28] situation because it's something

[55:30] they learned in a video that I

[55:32] put out as well as walking

[55:33] around in public running into

[55:34] parents

[55:36] and hey thank you so much I got

[55:37] my child off of blah blah blah

[55:38] blah blah this is something like

[55:40] this happened to them so if I'm

[55:42] seeing these kids with

[55:43] their parents or their parents

[55:44] by themselves and they're

[55:46] telling me you stop from just at

[55:48] me one random computer nerd in

[55:51] Florida. I helped them get

[55:52] their kid off an application

[55:54] where they were being groomed or

[55:55] or potentially exploited or

[55:58] almost at that stage and I'm

[55:59] just running into it by

[56:00] chance.hink of the volume of the

[56:02] problem for real, you know

[56:02] because if I'm just running and

[56:03] I'm not saying this is a one off

[56:06] situation this happens to me

[56:07] multiple times, sometimes a day,

[56:08] sometimes and you know a lot of

[56:10] times in a week when I'm out in

[56:12] public so that's why I say

[56:14] preventing it I believe is the

[56:16] best the the best possible

[56:18] solution if we can you know

[56:18] obviously we're not going to

[56:20] prevent00% of it but but

[56:22] arresting and being being

[56:24] proactive instead of reactive I

[56:27] think it is the more favorable

[56:28] situation but you know

[56:30] I'm no lawmaker I've never been

[56:32] in a meeting like this before

[56:34] but I I definitely I

[56:36] definitely know that not

[56:38] creating victims in the first

[56:39] place is the is what I would

[56:39] prefer if I had my my choice

[56:44] you think that's really helpful

[56:47] especially as states are

[56:50] grappling with large settlements

[56:52] that were announced a couple of

[56:54] weeks ago and so I know I'm

[56:56] having conversations trying

[56:58] to determine the best way to use

[57:00] that those funds and the

[57:00] responsible way

[57:02] to do that to make sure yeah

[57:05] that we prevent but also we we

[57:08] go after the bad actors as well.

[57:10] Last question I'll ask you

[57:11] from my perspective there

[57:11] have

[57:16] been I think as of late the last

[57:17] couple of weeks we've seen

[57:20] this is just more of a broader

[57:22] question on Ai as this committee

[57:24] sort of tries to grapple with

[57:26] how things are moving so quickly

[57:28] we've seen some whistleblowers

[57:30] we've seen from some large

[57:32] companies kind of very concerned

[57:34] about the direction that we're

[57:36] going and I just wondered if

[57:37] you had any thoughts that you

[57:38] would liked again we're

[57:40] lawmakers trying to who are not

[57:41] in this space at all just sort

[57:42] of understand where we're headed

[57:43] and what frontier we're going

[57:43] towards.

[57:48] So I mean the the only thing

[57:50] that that come to mind off

[57:52] the top of the head it would be

[57:54] just the safety and guardrails

[57:56] need to be heavily modified to

[57:58] determine if they're talking

[58:00] with a child or not. it's

[58:01] it's impossible for me to know

[58:02] what each company has

[58:04] implemented with their their

[58:06] safety guardrails so if if

[58:07] anyone here isn't familiar with

[58:10] what that means it's just a a

[58:12] prompt that that so

[58:14] sorry if I'm explaining

[58:14] something you guys already know

[58:15] but

[58:18] if you go on chatgpT for example

[58:19] using them as the example and

[58:20] say I want to learn how to

[58:22] make chocolate chip cookies.

[58:24] it's gonna read this very very

[58:26] long let's say it's 300,0an0

[58:28] words it's gonna read this very

[58:29] long thing that says this is

[58:31] exactly what you can do this is

[58:32] how you're gonna word it, this

[58:33] is the personality that you're

[58:34] gonna take on and here's all the

[58:36] thing here's all the tools you

[58:38] have access to and here's the a

[58:39] huge list of things that you

[58:41] can't do. that's the safety

[58:42] and guardrails that Ai has right

[58:44] now because without that it

[58:45] would be it would do

[58:46] whatever you asked if you asked

[58:48] to make a bioeapon it would make

[58:49] a bioeapon and you know and and

[58:49] you you know

[58:52] you can put put together the

[58:56] rest yourself we need those

[58:57] guardrails that and all the

[58:58] companies have them you know and

[58:59] and some of them do better than

[59:00] others obviouslybviously we're

[59:02] hearing that character.ai at

[59:04] least publicly is doing a bad

[59:06] job at least in my opinion with

[59:08] their with their guardrails.

[59:09] kidsds are killing themselves

[59:11] they they're role playing as you

[59:12] know as their boyfriends

[59:14] girlfriends wives whatever it

[59:15] may be and

[59:18] and and you know resulting in in

[59:20] horrible things and and I truly

[59:21] believe a lot more of it's

[59:22] happening than we know we're

[59:24] only hearing about what is

[59:24] publicly out there, what parents

[59:26] have reported, what parents have

[59:27] caught and on their child's

[59:28] phone maybe the kid hasn't even

[59:30] came forward to their parents

[59:32] about it and you know god

[59:34] forbid a kid hurt themselves and

[59:36] the parent never found out why

[59:37] we there's there are

[59:38] unfortunately I think there's

[59:39] plenty of those cases out there

[59:40] if we already are dealing with I

[59:42] believe it's7 that I that I read

[59:43] off earlier

[59:46] I I think that that would be my

[59:48] first step if if there wasn't

[59:50] age verification if I'm sorry if

[59:51] there weren't age verification

[59:54] then trying to work with

[59:58] teams that s specifically are

[59:59] trying to protect the safety of

[1:00:01] children through the guardrails

[1:00:03] and safety prompts that are

[1:00:05] built into these pros and that

[1:00:07] is their sole sole job at that

[1:00:08] company or partnership with that

[1:00:10] company is to help them identify

[1:00:12] their speaking with a child and

[1:00:14] how to respond to the child no

[1:00:16] matter what that child says and

[1:00:18] and and obviously we're the

[1:00:19] you know the companies out there

[1:00:19] are failing at this

[1:00:26] there are any other questions

[1:00:27] for Mr Montgomery

[1:00:32] right. Ryan thank you very

[1:00:34] much for your time. I don't

[1:00:36] want to run you off so you're

[1:00:38] very welcome to continue to stay

[1:00:40] and participate in the study

[1:00:42] but I've asked the honorable

[1:00:46] Mr Gum to to present a

[1:00:48] more local take on things so I'm

[1:00:50] gonna turn the floor over to him

[1:00:54] right now so thank you very much

[1:00:55] keep fighting the good fight I

[1:00:56] really appreciate you being here

[1:00:59] thank you I appreciate you guys

[1:01:01] having me and and I apologize

[1:01:02] for you know not being the

[1:01:04] greatest public speaker or I

[1:01:06] just you know like I said'm a

[1:01:08] computer nerd a computer hacker

[1:01:09] whatever you want to call me I

[1:01:10] care a ton about child safety

[1:01:12] and you I hope that I was

[1:01:14] able to explain it in a way that

[1:01:16] made sense and and understand

[1:01:17] that everyone here understands

[1:01:20] the importance of of how Ai

[1:01:22] needs to be regulated this in

[1:01:24] some way whether that be on the

[1:01:26] company level or or a legal

[1:01:26] level because kids are

[1:01:29] being hurt and and being taken

[1:01:31] advantage of and exploited and

[1:01:34] and we we as you know as

[1:01:35] people that care need to do

[1:01:36] something about it and that's a

[1:01:38] that's all I appreciate you guys

[1:01:39] hearing me out. I hope you have

[1:01:39] an awesome week.

[1:01:41] Thank you

[1:01:48] so the next presenter that we

[1:01:50] have is the honorable J Paul

[1:01:52] Gum. He is the communications

[1:01:54] director for the Oklahoma

[1:01:57] institute of Child advocacy and

[1:01:59] I really appreciate you being

[1:02:00] here today and appreciate the

[1:02:02] work that you do protecting

[1:02:04] Oklahoma's children and with

[1:02:06] that the floor is yours sir

[1:02:08] thank you senator madam chairman

[1:02:09] members thank you so much for

[1:02:10] giving OICA the opportunity to

[1:02:12] weigh in on this let me begin by

[1:02:14] giving you a bit of a history

[1:02:15] lesson about OICA

[1:02:18] we were created in 1983 in the

[1:02:19] wake of probably one of the

[1:02:21] worst child abuse scandals in

[1:02:22] state's history and that was

[1:02:26] with DHS and the problems

[1:02:27] that with children in and

[1:02:30] juvenile care the decision

[1:02:31] was made at the time to create

[1:02:33] two different entities one a

[1:02:36] state entity to operate to

[1:02:38] prevent it from inside that kind

[1:02:40] of abuse to ever occur again.

[1:02:42] OICA was created to be the

[1:02:44] outside watchdog to speak to

[1:02:45] issues

[1:02:48] of legislation of regulation and

[1:02:50] that sort of thing and we are

[1:02:51] independent we get no state

[1:02:51] money we are

[1:02:54] operated solely on donor dollars

[1:02:56] and what we can raise through

[1:02:57] our events like the heroes ball

[1:02:59] and our fall forum and the chili

[1:03:00] cook off and all the things you

[1:03:02] see us do that gives us an

[1:03:04] independence to be able to speak

[1:03:07] on issues to you and to the

[1:03:10] public on what we think is

[1:03:11] necessary to improve the quality

[1:03:12] of life for Oklahoma's children

[1:03:14] so that's where we come from and

[1:03:15] how we hope to approach

[1:03:16] things

[1:03:18] let's see here

[1:03:26] all righty Ai is a tool it's

[1:03:28] like any other tool that's out

[1:03:29] there it can be used for good or

[1:03:32] it can be used for evil it is

[1:03:36] moving at warp speed and things

[1:03:37] happen very quickly as a matter

[1:03:39] of fact the landscape changed a

[1:03:40] little bit from the time we

[1:03:43] locked thisowPoint on Thursday

[1:03:46] to today but the concerns

[1:03:48] that we have are those that

[1:03:49] we've heard shared already here

[1:03:51] today the generative image tools

[1:03:52] can take real photos and turn

[1:03:53] them into something

[1:03:54] that is just flat wrong

[1:03:57] and then social media

[1:04:00] integration is something else

[1:04:02] kidsd are on social media that

[1:04:03] the toothpaste is out of the

[1:04:04] tube they're not the kids aren't

[1:04:06] coming off social media but that

[1:04:09] is giving access to children to

[1:04:10] those who might not have the

[1:04:11] best intentions of them

[1:04:14] and existing legal frameworks

[1:04:16] designed for traditional imagery

[1:04:17] failed to address the automated

[1:04:17] generation

[1:04:20] and facilitator negligence or

[1:04:21] mal intent

[1:04:26] now our friend Mr Musk has gone

[1:04:28] front in the last 96 hours from

[1:04:30] saying it needs to continue Ai

[1:04:32] growing and expanding just

[1:04:34] exactly the way it always has to

[1:04:36] now he's beginning to suggest

[1:04:37] that maybe we need to slow

[1:04:37] things down a bit

[1:04:42] but his grok and his exAi

[1:04:44] platform are directly integrated

[1:04:46] into one of the social media

[1:04:47] platforms that's most popular

[1:04:49] and that's and that allows users

[1:04:51] to take ordinary public photos

[1:04:54] and do bad things with them

[1:04:58] so we need to make certain that

[1:05:00] criminal imagery is not being

[1:05:02] created of our children through

[1:05:04] these different platforms the

[1:05:06] Ai tool was natively embedded in

[1:05:07] the social networks so it is as

[1:05:08] much a part of it

[1:05:12] as the 140 characters you have

[1:05:14] so it's an area of particular

[1:05:15] concern

[1:05:20] Grok did acknowledge there were

[1:05:21] some problem lapses and

[1:05:22] safeguards was the euphemistic

[1:05:24] term they used so they threw in

[1:05:26] some patches to try to create a

[1:05:28] zero tolerance policy the

[1:05:30] problem is they're basic kid

[1:05:32] mode can be easily bypassed by

[1:05:36] even young people so again what

[1:05:37] we're seeing in the industry is

[1:05:38] we're not seeing enough of the

[1:05:40] safeguards being built in and so

[1:05:44] there needs to be some kind of

[1:05:45] incentive or to

[1:05:48] put the safeguards in or

[1:05:50] disincentive to not have those

[1:05:51] safeguards

[1:05:56] AP has looked into this and it

[1:05:58] sees that rok images depicting

[1:06:00] children can easily be turned

[1:06:04] into CA andXAi introduced

[1:06:05] restrictions in a Dutch court

[1:06:08] orderedAi to immediately cease

[1:06:09] generating nonconsensual

[1:06:09] undressing images

[1:06:13] jury still out on whether that

[1:06:14] was effective or not and that's

[1:06:16] just one country in an entire

[1:06:18] world and here and here's the

[1:06:19] thing about

[1:06:19] Ai

[1:06:21] and and we've heard the term

[1:06:22] the wild west used more than

[1:06:24] once this is far worse in the

[1:06:26] wild west and the wild west if

[1:06:28] you wanted to communicate with

[1:06:29] someone you either had to use a

[1:06:30] telegraph or the pony express

[1:06:34] that took time Ai is universal

[1:06:37] and it's instantaneous as soon

[1:06:40] as a tool is placed on the web

[1:06:41] it is available everywhere

[1:06:46] all the time immediately and

[1:06:47] therein creates a real problem

[1:06:49] this is far worse than what the

[1:06:50] wild west ever would be

[1:06:55] so let's look at the generated

[1:06:56] images and how prevalent it

[1:07:00] is2024 which in Ai at this point

[1:07:01] is probably ancient history

[1:07:06] a report established that 1 in10

[1:07:09] 10% of children today is aware

[1:07:11] of deep fakes and seeSA being

[1:07:11] created

[1:07:13] of their peers

[1:07:17] 1 in10 I promise you that number

[1:07:17] is higher today

[1:07:23] and then go into the chatbot

[1:07:24] therapy growing number of

[1:07:26] children and teenagers

[1:07:26] especially if they feel

[1:07:28] disconnected from the rest of

[1:07:29] the world

[1:07:30] they turned to the chatbots

[1:07:34] and they looked for advice

[1:07:36] companionship and even mental

[1:07:37] health support and again as

[1:07:37] we've done

[1:07:40] first thing you do when you try

[1:07:41] to do something with with Ai

[1:07:44] is it'll tell you Ai can make

[1:07:45] mistakes

[1:07:47] this is not an area where you

[1:07:49] want mistakes made when children

[1:07:50] are being given mental health

[1:07:51] advice

[1:07:54] and of course we've heard

[1:07:56] today the tragic results that

[1:07:57] have come from some children

[1:07:57] with this

[1:08:02] and then the severe harms of

[1:08:04] synthetic nonconsensual intimate

[1:08:06] imagery they're psychological

[1:08:09] harms it will cause

[1:08:11] psychological damage that can

[1:08:12] follow up child for the rest of

[1:08:14] their life you see extortion and

[1:08:17] coercion which we've seen that

[1:08:20] before we ever had Ai if someone

[1:08:22] could could convince a child to

[1:08:24] send an image that could be

[1:08:26] used later on to extort them or

[1:08:28] get them to get money or cause

[1:08:29] them

[1:08:30] just intentional damage

[1:08:34] and today again with the

[1:08:36] internet and with these images

[1:08:38] being instantaneous and

[1:08:40] universal the viral propagation

[1:08:43] it can go from a small town in

[1:08:44] Oklahoma to anywhere in the

[1:08:45] world

[1:08:45] like that

[1:08:46] so

[1:08:48] there are numerous

[1:08:52] cases where harm can happen that

[1:08:54] is beyond anything that it could

[1:08:55] have any time in the past

[1:09:00] so we really need to attack the

[1:09:02] criminal bad actors those are

[1:09:02] the bad guys who are really

[1:09:03] doing the the the bad things

[1:09:04] that's

[1:09:07] the statute's primarily focused

[1:09:09] on distribution of nonconsensual

[1:09:10] photos by individuals

[1:09:13] pursuing individual juvenile

[1:09:15] offenders fails to stem the

[1:09:16] automated assembly line of

[1:09:18] generating thousands of harmful

[1:09:19] images daily

[1:09:20] so

[1:09:23] some of these are being created

[1:09:25] not by people as senator

[1:09:25] Hamilton said that

[1:09:28] there's this machine in there

[1:09:31] that's making these things so I

[1:09:32] think policy needs to reach the

[1:09:34] root of the crisis and that's

[1:09:36] the commercial developers and

[1:09:38] hosting platforms that knowingly

[1:09:39] permit market or fail to

[1:09:41] implement guardrails against

[1:09:43] illicit generative sexualization

[1:09:43] of children

[1:09:47] if they can create a system

[1:09:49] whereby these images can be

[1:09:52] created and propagated they can

[1:09:53] put up the guardrails

[1:09:57] again this is one of those

[1:09:59] issues that is not partisan at

[1:10:01] all red states blue states and

[1:10:03] everything in between are trying

[1:10:05] to do things California they

[1:10:06] enacted a pioneering law

[1:10:08] requiring Ai chatbots to state

[1:10:10] that they are not human and

[1:10:11] filter explicit content for

[1:10:12] minors and spot signs of self

[1:10:16] harm and suicidal thoughts Idaho

[1:10:18] oregon Washington red blue

[1:10:20] purple passed laws stopping

[1:10:22] chatbots from acting like they

[1:10:23] have feelings are showing

[1:10:24] sentience or having sexual talk

[1:10:28] s with minors Tennessee red as

[1:10:30] Oklahoma made nonconsensual Ai

[1:10:32] generated nude images and fake

[1:10:34] explicit media illegal adding

[1:10:35] strict criminal and civil

[1:10:38] penalties and schools must also

[1:10:39] review clear rules regarding Ai

[1:10:41] use in the classroom. New York

[1:10:42] City about as blue as you can

[1:10:44] get they announced a one year

[1:10:46] moratorium on student facing

[1:10:49] generative Ai that's even using

[1:10:51] it in grades two2K through

[1:10:52] eighth grade for the upcoming

[1:10:53] school year

[1:10:58] last year Oklahoma took a shot

[1:10:59] didn't quite get there but

[1:11:02] several things were done and and

[1:11:04] I want you know give kudos to

[1:11:06] Representative conney Maynard

[1:11:08] from my hometown of Durant

[1:11:09] uhpresentative Ford Senator

[1:11:10] Hamilton and you madam chairman

[1:11:12] for the work you did on what was

[1:11:13] able to get done in last year's

[1:11:14] session

[1:11:17] butpresentative Ford had a

[1:11:18] committee substitute for Senate

[1:11:20] Bill445 last session that

[1:11:22] targeted proposals to clarify

[1:11:24] that criminal liability covers

[1:11:26] both knowingly creating and

[1:11:28] altering nonconsensual intimate

[1:11:29] images through Ai and

[1:11:29] distributing them

[1:11:32] the proposal will empower the

[1:11:33] Ag's office with direct

[1:11:34] enforcement authority while

[1:11:35] creating a civil path for

[1:11:37] victims to seek damages and

[1:11:40] mandatory takedowns of offending

[1:11:42] material those are good starting

[1:11:43] points now

[1:11:46] where we run into the problem

[1:11:48] with Ai and technology is

[1:11:48] technology doesn't have

[1:11:52] to adjourn at5 p.m. on the last

[1:11:54] Friday in May it keeps going all

[1:11:56] the time it keeps expanding all

[1:11:57] the time and that's why

[1:11:58] Senatorhamilton and this

[1:11:59] committee you're doing a good

[1:12:00] thing by continuing the

[1:12:02] discussion even during the

[1:12:04] interim but technology is

[1:12:05] advancing while we're sitting

[1:12:06] here today talking about

[1:12:07] technology advancing

[1:12:12] the key components did things in

[1:12:14] a proper way we think at OICA

[1:12:16] that protects neutral AI

[1:12:18] developers those who aren't

[1:12:19] trying to be the bad guys but

[1:12:20] again

[1:12:23] even a rock the first tool can

[1:12:26] be used to cause damage what we

[1:12:27] need to do is those who are

[1:12:28] legitimate general purpose

[1:12:30] algorithms or research models

[1:12:32] operating within safety

[1:12:32] protocols they need to be

[1:12:33] protected

[1:12:37] intentional and reckless misuse

[1:12:38] and there's where we get into

[1:12:40] the problem liability should

[1:12:42] apply specifically to those

[1:12:43] entities and actors that

[1:12:44] knowingly and recklessly design

[1:12:46] market facilitate tools for

[1:12:48] sexually explicit depiction of

[1:12:50] minors and we know that those

[1:12:52] people are out there we know

[1:12:53] that they are moving the ball

[1:12:55] down the down the field in that

[1:12:56] realm they're the targets

[1:12:58] they're the ones we should go

[1:13:00] after and then I believe civil

[1:13:02] redress and OICA does well

[1:13:04] should be part of the process

[1:13:06] you have victims and families

[1:13:06] immediate legal standing to seek

[1:13:09] compensatory damage and court

[1:13:10] ordered removal of harmful

[1:13:11] content

[1:13:14] I think that's at the foundation

[1:13:15] of everything you go to

[1:13:15] if

[1:13:19] criminal penalties aren't enough

[1:13:22] hit these people where it hurts

[1:13:23] we've heard they're making

[1:13:25] billions of dollars they are hit

[1:13:28] them in the pocketbook make it

[1:13:29] financially not

[1:13:32] worth their while to go down

[1:13:33] these dangerous roads for kids

[1:13:34] now

[1:13:38] let's take a look at what the

[1:13:39] public thinks

[1:13:42] Americans they are worried about

[1:13:43] Ai they want stronger regulation

[1:13:46] more people are worried than are

[1:13:48] excited about Ai more people

[1:13:50] believe that it is a high or

[1:13:51] very high risk than believe it's

[1:13:51] a low risk

[1:13:54] there are two areas of optimism

[1:13:56] both in scientific research and

[1:13:57] in health care and we're seeing

[1:14:00] Ai make some good strides there

[1:14:01] and that's reflected in the way

[1:14:02] people in the United States CAi

[1:14:08] but4 in5 Americans want to see

[1:14:10] more action when it comes to

[1:14:12] regulating Ai and 81% say

[1:14:14] Washington is not doing enough

[1:14:15] to regulate AI.

[1:14:19] now let's come here home to

[1:14:19] Oklahoma

[1:14:25] a 94% believe that leaders must

[1:14:25] take action

[1:14:31] 93cent are concerned about deep

[1:14:31] fakes of minor children

[1:14:36] and 91% support corporate

[1:14:36] accountability legislation

[1:14:40] this is one of those rare areas

[1:14:41] that you get as elected

[1:14:42] officials where public

[1:14:46] perception and public belief and

[1:14:48] public wants line up with what

[1:14:50] will be good policy for the

[1:14:51] state of Oklahoma

[1:14:53] it's nonpartisan

[1:14:56] people believe strongly in this

[1:14:59] you don't see 94% of the people

[1:15:00] agreeing on what kind of pizza

[1:15:02] to have for lunch but they agree

[1:15:03] that something needs to be done

[1:15:03] to protect children

[1:15:06] and there is a clear mandate

[1:15:09] that you have from the voters

[1:15:10] from the people of the state to

[1:15:11] do something

[1:15:15] so you have a rare opportunity

[1:15:16] to establish a national

[1:15:18] benchmark by closing legal

[1:15:20] loopholes around AI facilitated

[1:15:22] nonconsensual intimate imagery

[1:15:24] empowering the attorney

[1:15:24] general's office in law

[1:15:25] enforcement and protecting

[1:15:25] children

[1:15:28] basically

[1:15:29] you got the folks behind you

[1:15:33] and the time is now to take big

[1:15:35] steps and be ready to take those

[1:15:36] steps when the legislature comes

[1:15:38] back the first Monday in

[1:15:39] February

[1:15:41] with that madam chairman members

[1:15:42] I'll be happy to try to answer

[1:15:44] questions and let me conclude by

[1:15:46] extending the the regrets of

[1:15:50] Joe Dorman our CEO for

[1:15:52] not being able to be here today

[1:15:54] he's indc doing thelord's work

[1:15:56] fighting for kids in in our

[1:15:58] nation's capital so he would

[1:15:59] have rather been here than me

[1:16:02] but I tried to do ok as far

[1:16:03] as the B team goes and they'd be

[1:16:03] happy to try to answer questions

[1:16:07] any questions for the

[1:16:07] honorablein Gumm

[1:16:14] if there's none right now then

[1:16:17] I've got one or two of the first

[1:16:17] was

[1:16:21] if you might recommend a

[1:16:22] mechanism

[1:16:26] just in a I know we're kind of

[1:16:28] taking a shot in the dark here

[1:16:30] but a mechanism by which we

[1:16:34] might keep Oklahoma's kids safer

[1:16:37] and minimize the collateral

[1:16:38] damage that I think

[1:16:42] that some of the providers of

[1:16:46] the services have mentioned

[1:16:48] that would happen were we to

[1:16:50] institute some type of age

[1:16:52] verification procedures for

[1:16:54] these things I think that's

[1:16:56] critical especially when you

[1:16:57] have the Ai

[1:17:01] platforms with the ability to do

[1:17:01] the things that they do

[1:17:04] some kind of age verification

[1:17:07] it seems reasonable and

[1:17:10] appropriate and again looking

[1:17:11] back at the polling data I think

[1:17:12] you'll see Oklahomans will be

[1:17:14] supportive of that by an

[1:17:15] overwhelming majority

[1:17:19] that has always been the best

[1:17:20] way to protect children from

[1:17:22] things that might be fine for

[1:17:24] them as an adult but not fine

[1:17:25] for them as a child

[1:17:28] alcohol laws as is a perfect

[1:17:30] example of that you have to show

[1:17:32] that you're21 years old to be

[1:17:32] ordered to buy alcoholic

[1:17:33] beverages

[1:17:34] that

[1:17:37] it almost seems too simplistic

[1:17:40] but there's got to be a way to

[1:17:41] make that work

[1:17:43] thank you

[1:17:46] the the the next

[1:17:48] question I would have would be

[1:17:52] can you think of any other

[1:17:54] areas you mentioned alcohol but

[1:17:55] ones that are you know

[1:18:00] I guess that are newer that

[1:18:01] are specifically related to

[1:18:04] child safety where a person who

[1:18:06] wanted to access a service or

[1:18:10] buy a product would have to show

[1:18:12] or upload identification well

[1:18:13] just the the

[1:18:15] what the gentleman talked about

[1:18:17] with the state of Florida

[1:18:20] putting in age verifications for

[1:18:22] for online pornography and and

[1:18:23] one of the major platforms

[1:18:26] completely stopped serving that

[1:18:27] state I mean I don't know that

[1:18:28] that would be a bad thing for

[1:18:29] Oklahoma to do

[1:18:34] and I think we really have to

[1:18:36] also throw the parent in here as

[1:18:38] well the parent has to be a part

[1:18:39] of this this process I had a

[1:18:42] he's not so young anymore he's

[1:18:44] married and joining the air

[1:18:45] forcece but I have a son who

[1:18:48] grew up playing obloxx we

[1:18:50] stayed very engaged with his

[1:18:52] his mother and I stayed very

[1:18:53] engaged with his online activity

[1:18:54] a matter of fact he's 20 years

[1:18:55] old and

[1:18:58] took the oath to be in the air

[1:18:59] force and I still get notices of

[1:19:02] when he when he buys a game

[1:19:03] he hadn't figured that one out

[1:19:06] yet so I I think that that's

[1:19:08] that's part of the thing too is

[1:19:10] we need to encourage parents and

[1:19:11] empower parents to be a part of

[1:19:12] that process as well

[1:19:14] no one is better

[1:19:17] equipped to take care of their

[1:19:18] kids and their parents as a

[1:19:20] general rule and they they are

[1:19:22] that first line of defense but

[1:19:24] what we're seeing and especially

[1:19:26] with the chatbox stuff or the

[1:19:27] kids are bypassing the parents

[1:19:28] to get some kind of

[1:19:32] insight that they're not getting

[1:19:34] anywhere else so you have to

[1:19:36] find a way to short circuit that

[1:19:39] bypass and and again either an

[1:19:40] incentive to do the right thing

[1:19:42] or a disincentive to do the bad

[1:19:43] thing is's what we need to do

[1:19:43] with these companies.

[1:19:48] very well said I appreciate

[1:19:50] what you said about the you know

[1:19:51] that's the parent's job and

[1:19:52] nobody knows a kid better than

[1:19:56] the parent the you touched

[1:19:58] on this but the prevalence of

[1:19:59] technology and I'm not sure if

[1:20:01] it's what I'm saying is a

[1:20:02] question or if it's more of a

[1:20:03] statement but the the the

[1:20:07] it becoming more and more

[1:20:10] technologically savvy. I had a

[1:20:11] friend a family friend and a

[1:20:13] couple of years ago who had a

[1:20:16] child that some of the

[1:20:20] child's middle school classmates

[1:20:22] created a fake social media

[1:20:26] account for the child and then

[1:20:28] made fake posts that were

[1:20:30] running down one of the child's

[1:20:33] classmates and that resulted in

[1:20:34] an altercation in both children

[1:20:38] getting in trouble at school and

[1:20:40] so this was this was before

[1:20:42] really before the days of Ai and

[1:20:44] and I think that and you

[1:20:46] can feel free to dovetail on

[1:20:48] this or or dog pile on and do

[1:20:49] whatever the appropriate

[1:20:52] terminology is but this was this

[1:20:54] was in the days of foot boats

[1:20:56] when this was happening that

[1:20:58] junior high school children were

[1:21:00] doing that were you do would you

[1:21:02] like to expound on that or well

[1:21:04] let me say this

[1:21:08] that is not a new kind of thing

[1:21:10] the platform is new using social

[1:21:11] media but

[1:21:14] I'm not quite so old that I

[1:21:16] don't remember being in middle

[1:21:18] school and how the rumor gets

[1:21:19] started and

[1:21:22] you say one thing about somebody

[1:21:24] here and by the time it gets to

[1:21:25] that somebody there's going to

[1:21:28] be a fight after school so the

[1:21:30] platform is new the propagation

[1:21:32] is new the ease with which these

[1:21:34] things can happen is new and

[1:21:36] and again that's probably a good

[1:21:38] reason why you want to limit the

[1:21:40] use of AI in a classroom but

[1:21:42] you know it it

[1:21:45] if you've got the situation

[1:21:46] where you give the parents or

[1:21:48] you give the victims the ability

[1:21:50] to order something to be brought

[1:21:52] down to have it brought down to

[1:21:54] have monetary damages for when

[1:21:56] somebody does something like

[1:21:58] that that seems to make sense

[1:22:00] and again

[1:22:03] none of this is

[1:22:04] new

[1:22:08] it's the platform it's how fast

[1:22:11] it can get out and how fast it

[1:22:14] can go around is new and that

[1:22:16] creates the new risks for our

[1:22:18] kids and why I think it's

[1:22:20] appropriate and why most

[1:22:22] Americans and most Oklahomans

[1:22:23] think some sort of action is

[1:22:23] appropriate

[1:22:28] thank you very much. Any

[1:22:29] additional questions

[1:22:30] senator

[1:22:32] thank you for the presentation

[1:22:36] former senator by the way I

[1:22:36] don't know if anybody else knows

[1:22:38] he was served in this body a

[1:22:40] few years ago so welcome back

[1:22:42] to the state to be changed a

[1:22:43] little bit since you were here

[1:22:43] back in the day

[1:22:46] so I know this is all about kids

[1:22:48] the study is as it should be so

[1:22:50] that's certainly important to

[1:22:52] all of us this is an issue that

[1:22:53] I mean it crosses a lot of lines

[1:22:55] I think about the older folks

[1:22:56] are hears awful stories about

[1:22:58] them losing their life savings

[1:22:59] over someone that takes

[1:22:59] advantage of them so I don't

[1:23:00] know how we

[1:23:02] don't know how we get to that

[1:23:04] part of this issue as well

[1:23:06] because it's I mean it's

[1:23:06] probably not as important but

[1:23:07] it's a very important to some of

[1:23:08] these people and that happens

[1:23:10] all the time so I don't know how

[1:23:12] we can cross over and and tackle

[1:23:13] some of these same issues at the

[1:23:13] same time but that's a

[1:23:16] that's a real concern of mine. I

[1:23:17] mean I hear about those stories

[1:23:18] all the time and it's it's

[1:23:19] really disheartening when you

[1:23:20] hear about those things but

[1:23:23] I hate it for parents these days

[1:23:25] I mean there's no book on

[1:23:26] parenting there wasn't when I

[1:23:28] was raising my kids and there

[1:23:29] wasn't for my parents but there

[1:23:30] certainly isn't today but some

[1:23:32] of these issues that they're

[1:23:34] faced with I don't know how we

[1:23:35] get word to parents I don't know

[1:23:36] whether it's through the schools

[1:23:37] I don't know if the government's

[1:23:38] always the right way to do that

[1:23:40] but just to make them aware of

[1:23:41] what their kids are going

[1:23:42] through today and and again I

[1:23:44] don't know if that's through

[1:23:46] presentation at schools or

[1:23:48] wish more parents could see what

[1:23:49] we're seeing today and heres

[1:23:50] some of these pitfalls that are

[1:23:51] out there

[1:23:53] facing their kids today probably

[1:23:54] right under the nose of some

[1:23:55] parents are gonna know about it

[1:23:56] and some aren't so I don't know

[1:23:58] how we just get the word out I

[1:23:59] mean you know we can have

[1:24:01] penalties but just just to make

[1:24:03] parents aware of the situation

[1:24:05] as it exists and if this might

[1:24:06] have been a better question for

[1:24:08] Mr Montgomery before but if he

[1:24:10] were to go back ive years ago,

[1:24:12] would he have any idea that

[1:24:14] in2026 we're dealing with some

[1:24:15] of the issues we're dealing with

[1:24:17] today and then what's that going

[1:24:19] to advance to a year from now or

[1:24:20] ive years from now how do we

[1:24:21] foresee that

[1:24:23] how do we protect our not just

[1:24:24] our kids but our population from

[1:24:26] some of the things that were

[1:24:28] being inundated with so there

[1:24:29] you go. jump in and tackle any

[1:24:30] of that that you'd like to

[1:24:33] weirdoICA are working really

[1:24:34] hard to help get the word out

[1:24:38] about both the advantages of and

[1:24:39] the dangers of Ai

[1:24:42] Mr Dorman writes a column every

[1:24:43] week that's printed in a lot of

[1:24:44] newspapers across the state and

[1:24:46] we put it up online and we we

[1:24:48] get it out of pretty well he's

[1:24:50] done two or three on this

[1:24:52] subject already and so we're

[1:24:53] going to continue to do that as

[1:24:56] well and and always we we

[1:24:58] encourage and ask members of the

[1:24:59] legislature to use us as a

[1:24:59] resource as well

[1:25:04] we we do have a very brag

[1:25:06] about our we've got a good

[1:25:07] communications operation we get

[1:25:08] the word out and we're going to

[1:25:10] continue to do that whether

[1:25:13] it be on on whatever issue that

[1:25:14] helps children that has the

[1:25:16] potential to make life better

[1:25:17] for Oklahoma's children that

[1:25:18] that's our whole purpose for

[1:25:21] being and to be honest we'd

[1:25:22] love a day we're we're not

[1:25:24] needed anymore so we're going

[1:25:26] to continue to do that giving

[1:25:29] parents resources as to what is

[1:25:29] available out there but

[1:25:32] let me give you a little hope

[1:25:33] senator

[1:25:36] when you look at those numbers

[1:25:38] of the polling and and where the

[1:25:39] people are on these issues

[1:25:42] they're aware they know that

[1:25:42] there are problems and

[1:25:46] this gives you and your

[1:25:48] colleagues and extraordinary

[1:25:50] opportunity to to get out over

[1:25:52] the tip of the skis as they like

[1:25:54] to say right now I think Ai

[1:25:56] is out over the tip of the skis

[1:25:58] they're they're beyond the wild

[1:26:00] west there it's advancing so

[1:26:02] rapidly I don't think that that

[1:26:04] ive years ago anybody would have

[1:26:05] imagined this who knows what

[1:26:07] it's gonna look like in a year I

[1:26:08] you know I'm at the age now

[1:26:09] where I'm thinking more about

[1:26:10] grandkids than I am about my

[1:26:12] kids and and of course you

[1:26:13] know

[1:26:16] I'll just tell you this my son

[1:26:17] grew up online

[1:26:20] we kept very close eye on him

[1:26:21] and what he wants to do in the

[1:26:23] air force is cybersecurity that

[1:26:23] that kind of

[1:26:27] set in his head what where he

[1:26:29] wanted to take his career and so

[1:26:30] that's what he's gonna most

[1:26:32] likely be doing in the air force

[1:26:34] is working cybersecurity and so

[1:26:35] there are people

[1:26:38] who understand the challenges

[1:26:39] and what we need to do is

[1:26:42] continue to empower them and

[1:26:44] one way to do that is continue

[1:26:46] work by this legislature

[1:26:48] continued work by organizations

[1:26:50] like us to let people know what

[1:26:52] is going on and that there is

[1:26:53] hope

[1:26:56] it's not going to be the easiest

[1:26:57] thing in the world by any

[1:26:58] stretch of the the imagination

[1:27:00] but I do believe we have that

[1:27:01] opportunity

[1:27:01] before us

[1:27:08] Senator Hicks thank you well

[1:27:09] before I turn it back over to

[1:27:11] you madam chairir I got just a

[1:27:13] couple of things one of the

[1:27:16] sadly one of the things that we

[1:27:17] often ask in Oklahoma

[1:27:20] before we run any piece of

[1:27:22] legislation as what other states

[1:27:23] have done this before

[1:27:24] and

[1:27:31] so states that have passed Ai

[1:27:32] safety legislation and that term

[1:27:36] is just as broad as it can be

[1:27:37] or colo coloado,

[1:27:40] New York, Texas, Connecticut,

[1:27:41] Washington state

[1:27:43] Georgiailllinois Missouri and

[1:27:45] Michigan's got some pending

[1:27:46] Ryan Montgomery talked about

[1:27:48] Tennessee and some others that

[1:27:50] are up there so it's not an

[1:27:52] all encompassing list but there

[1:27:54] are states that are taking

[1:27:54] actions and

[1:27:58] are those actions big enough

[1:28:00] are they appropriate? Well, God

[1:28:02] will and it will be

[1:28:04] the honorable Mr Gum

[1:28:06] mentioned something about

[1:28:08] parents need to be parents and

[1:28:09] that's absolutely right

[1:28:10] I don't know what came first

[1:28:12] week in chicken or egg this

[1:28:14] thing all day long but the

[1:28:15] reason that we have kids that

[1:28:17] are doing this stuff is because

[1:28:20] we have parents that for for for

[1:28:21] for ill or good

[1:28:22] have

[1:28:26] and I don't mean to say anything

[1:28:28] bad about body because if it is

[1:28:30] but for the grace of God goi but

[1:28:32] we've got to take more of an

[1:28:34] interest in our children

[1:28:35] we've got to take more of an

[1:28:38] interest in each in each other

[1:28:40] because the sad reality is is

[1:28:42] that we we want to blame things

[1:28:44] on Ai and social media and those

[1:28:45] are those are the flavor of the

[1:28:46] month but before that it was

[1:28:48] television before that it was

[1:28:50] radio. those things are made to

[1:28:52] be more interesting than real

[1:28:53] human beings are

[1:28:57] and the it's a it's a trick they

[1:28:58] seem that way but they're really

[1:29:00] not more interesting than we are

[1:29:02] to each other they're not more

[1:29:04] interesting they're not more

[1:29:06] engaging than our children are

[1:29:08] and so if we'll do what we're

[1:29:09] supposed to do then we'll find

[1:29:11] out that our children really are

[1:29:13] just as wealth of entertainment

[1:29:13] of knowledge of

[1:29:18] ability to stay engaged and

[1:29:20] that's that's one of our most

[1:29:22] important jobs that we that that

[1:29:24] we have is to raise them up and

[1:29:25] to bring them to the age of

[1:29:28] majority physically and mentally

[1:29:30] and spiritually and emotionally

[1:29:32] intact and I saw a quote

[1:29:35] recently that I think is

[1:29:36] absolutely apropos for what

[1:29:38] we're doing here or what we're

[1:29:40] trying to to do and senator Ted

[1:29:42] Lie or I'm sorrypresentative Cha

[1:29:45] Lou the the California Democrat

[1:29:47] what he said is this we are

[1:29:49] moving from Ai that answers

[1:29:52] questions to Ai that takes

[1:29:55] actions we humans are the ones

[1:29:55] that take actions the the

[1:29:58] bus stops with us to quote Harry

[1:30:00] Truman we are the ones that are

[1:30:02] supposed to take the actions we

[1:30:03] are the ones that bear the

[1:30:04] responsibility for this we don't

[1:30:06] get the the ability we don't get

[1:30:08] the the mulligan to be able to

[1:30:10] point our finger at the computer

[1:30:11] and say it was his fault or her

[1:30:12] fault

[1:30:13] and

[1:30:16] regarding us being able to do

[1:30:19] things and take actions on

[1:30:23] various arenas that that

[1:30:23] have to do with child safety

[1:30:27] you know we can see this in

[1:30:29] that that things may have

[1:30:31] gone too far in some areas of

[1:30:33] for instance we we talked

[1:30:35] about the wild west you

[1:30:36] know in the wild west you could

[1:30:38] go down to your corner drugstore

[1:30:40] and buy a bottle of opium called

[1:30:42] laudanum. OK anybody could buy

[1:30:43] it and you can send your six

[1:30:44] year old down there with a

[1:30:46] nickel and get it or whatever

[1:30:48] and now we can't do that you

[1:30:49] can't get those drugs without a

[1:30:50] prescription, OK and that's a

[1:30:53] good thing as the FDA always

[1:30:53] done everything correct? no

[1:30:58] but have they done things that

[1:30:59] they need to do? yes they have

[1:31:01] done that we have laws that say

[1:31:02] you can't buy raw milk laws that

[1:31:04] say you can't buy meat that

[1:31:06] doesn't that hasn't been

[1:31:08] inspected by somebody and so the

[1:31:10] idea that we would not be able

[1:31:13] to pass laws that would protect

[1:31:15] mainly children but all of our

[1:31:16] citizens from some of the

[1:31:18] harmful things that come to us

[1:31:20] through the wonderful tool of

[1:31:21] the internet

[1:31:23] as I feel is errone

[1:31:26] ne ous we absolutely not only

[1:31:28] have the authority to do so but

[1:31:31] we have the duty to do so we've

[1:31:33] passed bill passed legislation

[1:31:35] regarding automobile safety

[1:31:37] firearm safety medicine safety

[1:31:38] that's the whole reason we have

[1:31:41] child safety caps on on Motrin

[1:31:42] and even on things like

[1:31:44] flintstones chewables you can't

[1:31:46] buy spray paint in Oklahoma

[1:31:48] until you turn 18. so we've got

[1:31:50] a lot of places we've got a lot

[1:31:52] of precedent where we have and

[1:31:53] we should take action on those

[1:31:54] things

[1:31:55] and I'll close with this

[1:31:56] in government

[1:31:58] we get more

[1:32:04] what we incentivize and less of

[1:32:06] what we punish and so we need to

[1:32:08] figure out what those things are

[1:32:09] that we want

[1:32:13] and incentivize those things and

[1:32:14] find out what those things are

[1:32:15] that we don't want

[1:32:18] punish those things so that we

[1:32:19] don't have any more children

[1:32:22] that have made the unfortunate

[1:32:24] decision to take their own lives

[1:32:25] we don't have people that are

[1:32:26] being damaged because they're

[1:32:28] engaging with a machine instead

[1:32:29] of with each other

[1:32:32] and I thank the staff for all

[1:32:33] the hard work that they've done

[1:32:34] I thank you madam chair for

[1:32:36] entertaining this study and I

[1:32:37] thank God that we live in a

[1:32:38] country like America where we're

[1:32:39] free to speak our minds thank

[1:32:40] you

[1:32:45] thank you senatorhamilton I

[1:32:47] probably worked on fifenate bill

[1:32:49] 1521 which is your bill

[1:32:53] more times than I worked on

[1:32:54] any of my bills list last

[1:32:55] session

[1:32:57] but I appreciate your passion

[1:32:58] and I know we will continue to

[1:33:02] work on this issue my the

[1:33:04] challenge that we continue to

[1:33:05] face is and it's in the first

[1:33:07] line of OICA's presentation is

[1:33:08] artificial intelligence offers

[1:33:11] substantial economic benefits

[1:33:12] and so we're not trying to

[1:33:14] regulate Ai comprehensively

[1:33:17] we're trying to protect our our

[1:33:18] students and our minors and our

[1:33:19] our most vulnerable Oklahomans

[1:33:20] and

[1:33:24] so my charge to industry and

[1:33:26] to anyone who feels like any

[1:33:30] of these proposed like pieces

[1:33:32] of legislation affects could

[1:33:34] affect your business and I want

[1:33:36] my Spotify to keep sending me

[1:33:37] songs that I like. I want

[1:33:38] DoorDash to keep saying hey do

[1:33:40] you also want me to deliver this

[1:33:43] food to you as well so those are

[1:33:45] the things that I want to

[1:33:47] continue and we obviously

[1:33:49] wanna protect our kids so my

[1:33:49] challenge to you is if

[1:33:53] don't come to us in February,

[1:33:54] March, April, May complaining

[1:33:56] about legislation or complaining

[1:33:58] about words your time to work

[1:33:59] with us is now to work with

[1:34:00] Senatorhamilton to work with

[1:34:02] myself. let's get this right. I

[1:34:04] think we all want to do it but

[1:34:06] this language obviously is very

[1:34:08] technical which is why it took

[1:34:10] us so much time in the spring

[1:34:12] and it got bogged down and

[1:34:14] that won't be happening next

[1:34:16] year so thank you

[1:34:16] Senatorhamilton for being a

[1:34:18] bulldog on this. Anybody else

[1:34:19] have anything else with that

[1:34:21] we're adjourned

Technology and Telecommunications 2nd REVISED

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