[5:33] good morning everyone.

[5:35] welcomecome to the senate

[5:37] Committee on Economic

[5:38] Development Workforce and

[5:38] tourism

[5:40] thank you all for coming today

[5:42] we're gonna start our morning

[5:46] off with Senator kirt you've

[5:48] got a study interim study on

[5:50] land banking and so just a few

[5:52] housekeeping things as we get

[5:53] moving here today this is going

[5:55] to be really informal you

[5:56] don't have to work through the

[5:57] chair we'll just have a

[5:59] conversation Senator Kirt

[6:00] I'll let you take the lead and

[6:02] we'll be cognizant of time

[6:04] because we are back to back to

[6:06] back to back today but with that

[6:08] thank you all for coming.

[6:08] welcomelcome to the senate and

[6:09] senator

[6:10] k ir t the floor is yours

[6:12] thank you very much madam

[6:14] chairir and thank you for

[6:15] putting together this lineup

[6:16] of interesting housing topics

[6:18] today I think you know we've

[6:20] come a long way and in

[6:21] understanding housing as a key

[6:22] part of our economic development

[6:24] across the state and I

[6:25] appreciate the opportunity to

[6:27] talk about it with that

[6:29] framework in mind I know that

[6:31] this topic is something that I

[6:32] filed legislation on before and

[6:34] we really felt like we needed to

[6:37] go back to to looking at the

[6:38] issue and what the structure of

[6:40] a land bank could do for our

[6:41] communities it's it's really

[6:43] an opportunity to create more

[6:44] productive uses out of

[6:46] properties and I just briefly

[6:48] want to say that this my

[6:49] interest in this topic came

[6:51] about when I got repeated phone

[6:53] calls from a senior in my

[6:55] district an elderly woman who

[6:56] was dealing with a next door

[6:58] neighbor home that had been

[6:59] boarded up for more than a

[7:02] decade and was having repeated

[7:04] problems with squatters she

[7:05] would call the police the police

[7:07] would come they could not find

[7:08] the owner to confirm whether

[7:10] these people were allowed to be

[7:11] on the property or not

[7:12] and this happened again and

[7:15] again this is a huge expense to

[7:16] our communities for police

[7:19] and fire response it's a drain

[7:20] on our neighborhoods in terms of

[7:22] safety and it can be a real

[7:26] challenge for property values

[7:27] you know vacant and abandoned

[7:28] properties can cause huge

[7:30] challenges around property

[7:31] values as not to mention

[7:34] property taxes so we're looking

[7:35] specifically at properties that

[7:36] cause big public health and

[7:38] safety risks and that challenge

[7:39] of the drain of tax dollars as

[7:40] well as the challenge that those

[7:41] properties

[7:43] around it I you know

[7:44] repeatedly talked to

[7:45] constituents who had a boarded

[7:46] up apartment complex across the

[7:48] street the man had resorted to

[7:51] mowing it himself because he was

[7:54] so tired of the vermits and

[7:56] other problems he was facing and

[7:57] it was costing the city to come

[7:59] out and do that regularly what

[8:02] can we do and one of those tools

[8:04] that we do not have as an option

[8:05] in our state right now is land

[8:08] banks which can be a short term

[8:09] solution for good outcomes for

[8:10] the community and getting

[8:11] properties back into

[8:14] private use. So I am thrilled

[8:15] to have experts at the

[8:17] readyad today to look at those

[8:18] structures and help us

[8:20] understand what's possible most

[8:21] of all I'd like to thank the

[8:22] neighborighbourhood

[8:24] housingervices of oklahoma

[8:25] that's Katrina Washington

[8:26] director gonna speak and also

[8:29] Gary Jones for organizing I

[8:30] would like to hand off to

[8:30] Katrina now please.

[8:33] thank you

[8:37] so good morning thank you for

[8:39] the opportunity to be here today

[8:41] my name's Katrina Washington I

[8:42] serve as the executive director

[8:43] of neighborighboorhood housing

[8:44] Services Oklahoma I've worked in

[8:46] affordable housing community

[8:47] development development and

[8:48] residential and commercial real

[8:50] estate for more than 30 years I

[8:52] want to use this time today to

[8:53] talk about something we

[8:54] encounter from a developer's

[8:56] perspective the practical

[8:58] barriers between identifying a

[9:00] property and actually turning

[9:02] that property into affordable

[9:04] housing we often talk about the

[9:05] need for more housing and that

[9:06] need

[9:08] is very real but increasing

[9:10] housing production is not simply

[9:12] a matter of finding money and

[9:13] finding a developer we also have

[9:14] to address the condition

[9:16] ownership title costs and

[9:18] availability of land itself.

[9:19] Next slide please

[9:22] Oklahoma needs more housing

[9:25] how to advance

[9:28] that working families seniors

[9:31] and lower income households can

[9:31] afford

[9:34] as the slide demonstrates we are

[9:35] facing a significant rental

[9:36] housing shortage in many

[9:40] Oklahoma renters are already

[9:41] spending more than 30% of their

[9:43] income on housing but what I

[9:44] particularly want to emphasize

[9:46] today is what happens before

[9:50] construction ever begins at Nhs

[9:52] we have an interested developer

[9:53] we can have a potential funding

[9:54] source we can have a

[9:55] neighborhood where housing is

[9:56] needed

[9:58] and still that project can

[10:01] stall. Why? because the pastels

[10:02] can be scattered ownership may

[10:05] be unclear they can have lanes

[10:07] delinquent taxes title problems

[10:10] demolition needs infrastructure

[10:11] issues or years of deferred

[10:13] maintenance every one of those

[10:16] issues adds time and cost so the

[10:17] question I want to ask the

[10:18] committee or everyone here to

[10:20] consider is how do we move

[10:22] difficult property into a

[10:24] productive use faster while

[10:25] maintaining transparency and

[10:26] ensuring

[10:29] that a clear there's clear

[10:29] public benefit

[10:35] you have to go to the next slide

[10:37] there we go

[10:40] So one of the first lessons we

[10:42] learned is affordable housing

[10:43] developers is that available

[10:45] land is not necessarily usable

[10:47] land. You may have ive vacant

[10:49] lots in a neighborhood but they

[10:50] may be scat scattered across

[10:52] several blocks you may need

[10:55] three adjoining parcels to make

[10:56] that development work but those

[10:58] parcels may have three different

[11:01] owners and three different sets

[11:03] of problems even after

[11:04] acquisition we may discover that

[11:06] a site requires demolition

[11:07] utility work grading

[11:07] environmental work

[11:10] or other infrastructure

[11:12] improvements now that means that

[11:15] a parcel looks inexpensive on

[11:18] paper and it can bu become very

[11:20] expensive by the time we

[11:21] actually start construction on

[11:24] those now for us as nonprofit

[11:26] affordable housing developers

[11:28] those additional costs are

[11:30] particularly important because

[11:32] every additional dollar that we

[11:34] spend getting that land ready is

[11:36] a dollar that cannot be spent

[11:37] producing or preserving housing

[11:43] that becomes even more

[11:43] challenging when we're dealing

[11:44] with distressed property.

[11:48] we sometimes hear that a vacant

[11:49] property or tax delinquent

[11:50] parcel should be easy to

[11:52] redevelop because the

[11:55] acquisition price is low now

[11:56] unfortunately that purchase

[11:59] price often is a very small part

[12:01] of our problem now there there

[12:03] can be delinquent taxes liens

[12:06] codevelopment issues multiple

[12:08] claims demolition costs clean up

[12:10] expenses security and

[12:11] maintenance costs fragmented

[12:11] ownership

[12:14] and then there's the cost of

[12:15] time

[12:18] now those issues are while those

[12:19] issues are being resolved

[12:20] somebody has to maintain that

[12:21] property

[12:24] the grass still grows buildings

[12:28] deteriorate illegal dumping can

[12:29] occur in in the neighborhoods

[12:30] can you know just decline

[12:34] now as developers we have the

[12:36] financing and construction costs

[12:37] and those continue to increase

[12:40] there's also important policy

[12:41] questions about disposition

[12:46] now if distress pro public

[12:48] property is disposed of solely

[12:50] based upon who offers the

[12:52] highest price we may

[12:53] unintentionally eliminate

[12:55] opportunities to use that

[12:56] property for affordable housing

[12:59] or another long term community

[12:59] benefit

[13:04] sometimes the greatest return to

[13:05] the community is not necessarily

[13:07] the highest price paid for that

[13:07] land

[13:14] title is another barrier and

[13:17] it's often one thats that

[13:17] doesn't receive enough attention

[13:20] now before lender investor

[13:22] government agency or nonprofit

[13:24] is going to put hundreds of tho

[13:25] or thousands and potentially

[13:27] millions into a development we

[13:29] have to have that confidence

[13:30] that we have clear and

[13:32] marketable title that becomes

[13:33] difficult when ownership is

[13:36] uncertain, taxes or liens may be

[13:38] outstanding on that property or

[13:39] property has passed through

[13:39] several generations without

[13:40] probate

[13:42] now there's something called

[13:43] heir's property and it's

[13:44] particularly important issue in

[13:47] many communities when several

[13:48] family members have ownership

[13:50] interests identifying everyone

[13:51] and obtaining the legal

[13:52] authority necessary to transfer

[13:56] that property can take some

[13:57] considerable time. During that

[13:58] period the project can't move

[13:59] forward

[14:01] financing commitments can be

[14:03] jeopardized construction costs

[14:06] can rise professional fees

[14:08] continue and in some cases an

[14:10] otherwise viable project simply

[14:11] becomes financially infeasible

[14:16] a more coordinated system for

[14:17] resolving these issues could

[14:18] make a meaning meaningful

[14:19] difference

[14:25] and that brings us to cost.

[14:26] Affordable housing development

[14:28] already operates with very

[14:32] little room for error. We have

[14:33] land costs construction costs

[14:34] financing costs insurance

[14:36] infrastructure compliance

[14:37] requirements and professional

[14:37] services

[14:41] when it takes an additional year

[14:42] or several years sometimes to

[14:44] obtain control of a property or

[14:46] resolve these title issues and

[14:47] liens that we're discussing

[14:50] we have construction price

[14:52] changes interest expenses

[14:54] increases insurance cost changes

[14:55] funding commitments can

[14:55] sometimes expire

[14:58] ultimately someone has to absorb

[14:59] that difference

[15:02] for affordable housing projects

[15:04] that usually means one of three

[15:05] things

[15:08] we need more subsidy the

[15:08] homeowner or the renter must

[15:11] absorb those higher costs or we

[15:11] produce fewer homes

[15:15] that's why reducing unnecessary

[15:16] delay is not simply an

[15:18] administrative issue it's an

[15:19] affordable housing issue

[15:24] this is where I believe the

[15:26] discussion about land banks

[15:28] becomes particularly valuable a

[15:30] land bank does not replace

[15:31] developers

[15:34] and it should not replace local

[15:35] decision making

[15:38] instead properly structured land

[15:40] bank legislation can give

[15:42] communities another tool for

[15:42] dealing with properties that the

[15:44] traditional real estate market

[15:46] has not been able to resolve

[15:47] effectively

[15:49] think about the process shown on

[15:49] this slide.

[15:50] first

[15:54] identify eligible vacant a

[15:56] abandoned tax delinquent

[15:58] foreclosure surplus property

[15:59] secondcond

[16:00] provide a mechanism to acquire

[16:02] and responsibly hold that

[16:03] property

[16:07] third and this is extremely

[16:08] important resolve the problems

[16:10] that prevent development title

[16:12] tax liens demolition maintenance

[16:16] and sight readiness oth where

[16:18] appropriate assemble parcels so

[16:20] that we are creating sites that

[16:22] can actually support that

[16:24] development and finally transfer

[16:26] those properties to qualified

[16:28] partners using transparent

[16:30] criteria that consider that

[16:32] public benefit and that last

[16:33] point you know really matters

[16:36] for affordable housing we should

[16:38] be able to consider whether the

[16:42] developer has that experience

[16:44] and financing to perform

[16:44] whether the property will serve

[16:46] an identified community need and

[16:48] whether affordable affordability

[16:52] will be protected over time the

[16:54] goal should not simply to be

[16:56] transfer the property the goal

[16:57] should be to move problem

[16:58] property into productive use

[17:02] so I would encourage the

[17:04] legislature to view land bank

[17:06] enabling legis legislation as

[17:08] another tool and Oklahoma's

[17:10] housing and community

[17:12] development toolbox. it does not

[17:14] have to be one size fit all

[17:16] mandate it can provide willing

[17:18] communities with the authority

[17:20] and framework to create

[17:22] transparent and accountable

[17:24] system appropriate for the local

[17:28] needs as you evaluate potential

[17:29] legislation I would encourage

[17:30] you to focus on several

[17:31] principles

[17:34] clear statutory authority

[17:36] transparency and public

[17:38] accountability and effective

[17:40] process for addressing tidal and

[17:42] lean issues the ability to

[17:43] strategically assemble and hold

[17:43] property

[17:46] meaningful opportunities for

[17:48] nonprofit and affordable housing

[17:50] partners and safeguards and

[17:52] insure property transferred for

[17:54] public purpose and actually

[17:56] delivers that public benefit.

[18:00] Oklahoma already has capable

[18:02] nonprofit developers local

[18:04] governments housing

[18:06] organizations lenders and

[18:07] community partners that are

[18:08] ready to produce and preserve

[18:09] this housing

[18:11] what we sometimes lack

[18:13] is an efficient bridge

[18:16] between distressed property and

[18:17] development readyad property.

[18:20] if we can shorten that distance

[18:22] we can reduce unnecessary costs

[18:26] return vacant and abandoned

[18:26] property to productive use

[18:30] strengthen neighborhoods and

[18:31] create more opportunities for

[18:32] Oklahoma families to have a safe

[18:35] stable affordable place to call

[18:35] home.

[18:38] so thank you for allowing me to

[18:39] participate in this discussion

[18:42] and I appreciate the committee's

[18:43] willingness to examine solutions

[18:44] to this issue

[18:46] thank you

[18:50] thank you so muchrector

[18:50] Washington very much appreciate

[18:54] that overview I'm pleased to

[18:56] say we've got a national voice

[18:58] here we are gonna hear from

[19:00] Doug Ryan who's the vice

[19:02] president of housing policy

[19:04] forroedlutionstwork and they

[19:04] have some amazing resources if

[19:08] you want to read up on some of

[19:10] these issues we're talking

[19:10] about and we're so appreciate

[19:12] him coming and being willing to

[19:14] share with us to give give more

[19:16] context doug you ready to chime

[19:17] in there?

[19:20] I am thank you so much can you

[19:21] can you see my screen?

[19:21] Yeah.

[19:26] perfect I appreciate that

[19:27] thank you madam chairir and

[19:28] thank you Senator kirk for

[19:30] working on SD1478 and really

[19:32] appreciate the opportunity to

[19:34] speak before the committee and I

[19:35] look forward to working with the

[19:36] committee and and the staff as

[19:38] much as possible and how we can

[19:40] be helpful. my name is Doug

[19:42] Ryan. I'm the vice president of

[19:42] housing policy atrounded

[19:44] Solutions Network. we are a

[19:46] national nonprofit. I am based

[19:48] in Washingtondc but we have

[19:48] partners across the country.

[19:50] Katrina Washington is a member

[19:52] of our board we work in Tulsa

[19:53] with

[19:54] a nonprofit there we just got

[19:56] off the ground there we're very

[19:58] excited to work with in in that

[20:00] city and we look forward to more

[20:00] work in the state of Oklahoma.

[20:02] So I'm gonna talk a little bit

[20:04] about an overview of land banks

[20:06] across the country, what's

[20:08] happening elsewhere and how the

[20:10] legislation that's in front

[20:13] of us works well within those

[20:16] models. just an overview and

[20:17] kind of building off what

[20:19] Katrina said what land banks are

[20:20] the pertin they're typically

[20:22] public entities created through

[20:23] state legislation

[20:26] as proposed of the SB1478 and

[20:28] they helped convert problem

[20:30] properties. They do a number of

[20:30] things they they encourage

[20:32] reasonal regional collaboration

[20:36] including agreements among local

[20:37] governments that could help

[20:38] advance land banks they insure

[20:40] acquisition through tax

[20:42] foreclosure processes that

[20:44] little to no cost of the public

[20:46] to the taxpayer as Katrina

[20:48] emphasized it's really important

[20:50] that the title issues resolving

[20:52] those things they hold property

[20:53] tax exempt that helps

[20:54] them move these properties

[20:58] forward into a usable and

[21:00] productive uses and of course

[21:02] they deal with maintenance sales

[21:04] and conveyance those things are

[21:06] really important. There are 20

[21:06] states plus Puerto Rico that

[21:08] have passed land bank

[21:10] legislation and this has been

[21:12] going on for the last about two

[21:16] decades roughly and in2026

[21:17] the states of Louisiana and

[21:18] Washington passed land banks

[21:20] other states that have land bank

[21:22] legislation include uhlouisiana

[21:23] as they

[21:24] just said indiana, Kansas,

[21:26] Kentucky they are really across

[21:28] the country and they cross the

[21:30] ideological and party spectrum

[21:31] cause I think there's a

[21:32] recognition that this is a good

[21:34] tool to have to help address

[21:36] housing and economic development

[21:37] opportunities.

[21:42] The overview of land banks is on

[21:42] the screen. so basically there

[21:44] are a couple of key goals and

[21:46] then there are strategies to

[21:48] move forward once land banks are

[21:50] in place so their one goal of

[21:52] course as Katrina mentioned is

[21:54] eliminating blake that is

[21:56] critical and land banks can help

[21:57] do that through a facilitating

[22:00] demolitions the stabilization of

[22:02] the property and rehabilitation

[22:02] of the structures and the land

[22:06] itself. in some cases a land

[22:07] bank and its

[22:10] advisors may encourage the short

[22:12] term revenue meaning that they

[22:14] might sell properties that they

[22:15] acquired to the highest bidder

[22:18] and the legislation S1478 would

[22:20] would permit that use which I

[22:22] think is important to to have in

[22:24] your back pocket. It also can

[22:26] maximize long term revenue to

[22:28] convey properties which is

[22:28] sustainable development. Now

[22:30] that does often mean housing but

[22:33] it could also mean other uses as

[22:34] well economic strategies, health

[22:36] facilities recreation and things

[22:37] like that it's always

[22:38] important to have different

[22:40] options cause different land is

[22:42] suitable for different purposes

[22:42] but it's also really important

[22:45] to engage community members and

[22:46] local governance of course to to

[22:48] see what the priorities are

[22:52] often land banks are started

[22:52] because there's a need for

[22:54] affordable housing and

[22:56] affordable commercial

[22:56] development and that is

[22:58] criticalland banks are often

[23:00] acquiring properties that are in

[23:02] communities that have a real

[23:04] clear economic needs including

[23:06] housing and making sure that

[23:08] those properties can be

[23:10] delivered to effective

[23:12] developers nonprofit partners

[23:14] and others at a low price to

[23:15] make sure that those deals

[23:16] cancelled out is critical.

[23:18] That's one of the biggest costs

[23:19] that we're hearing across the

[23:19] country

[23:20] and through in Oklahoma is land

[23:24] and how having an effective

[23:26] process to convey these

[23:28] properties is really critical to

[23:30] making these properties into

[23:31] product abuses

[23:34] Finally neighborhood

[23:36] stabilization is a critical goal

[23:37] and that includes again

[23:38] similarly as the first item

[23:42] shows demolition rehabilitation

[23:42] and lock transfers

[23:48] Components of SP1478 from

[23:50] Senator kirt cover a couple of

[23:52] the key components I think that

[23:53] are in

[23:54] successful land banks across the

[23:58] country. It codifies land bank

[23:59] jurisdictions which would create

[24:00] land banks and I think what's

[24:02] really important to recognize is

[24:04] that this the bill also allows

[24:06] the approval of land banks. so

[24:06] that suggests that existing

[24:08] organizations can become land

[24:10] banks which is a which is a

[24:12] useful model and we're seeing

[24:13] that in other states. The bill

[24:14] would also provide authority to

[24:16] acquire tax foreclosed

[24:16] properties that that's of course

[24:18] critical and fundamental

[24:20] codifies the tax treatment of

[24:22] assets it's important that

[24:23] properties are

[24:26] treated as tax exempt so they

[24:28] can become productive uses it

[24:30] authorizes the land bank to

[24:32] issue tax exempt bonds again to

[24:34] lower the costs of operation and

[24:36] lower the costs of converting

[24:38] into productive uses and it

[24:40] identifies as permanent fundings

[24:42] and income sources but what

[24:44] that builds off I think the the

[24:46] bipartisan21st century road to

[24:48] housing bill that Congress

[24:50] enacted earlier this summer

[24:52] helps would help actually some

[24:54] organ organizations build

[24:56] housing and land banks can be a

[24:58] key component of that the the

[25:00] vision that that bill has

[25:04] has and that localities and

[25:04] states are going to implement

[25:06] including Oklahoma and the

[25:08] jurisdictions across the state.

[25:10] I think having a land bank

[25:12] authority will be a critical

[25:13] resource in order to make

[25:14] the21st century road to housing

[25:16] bill effective

[25:20] Land banks and homeownership

[25:22] that's our expertise. So our

[25:22] grounded solutions network we

[25:24] advocate for housing with

[25:26] lasting affordability that

[25:26] typically includes land trusts,

[25:28] community land trusts and other

[25:30] models that ensure that the home

[25:32] is not only affordable for that

[25:34] first generation of home buyers

[25:35] but multiple generations moving

[25:38] forward and part of the the idea

[25:39] is that when there is a public

[25:39] subsidy

[25:42] through a funding program like

[25:44] homeme or CBG or a local

[25:46] resource or public land

[25:48] including land disposal through

[25:50] a land bank it is critical that

[25:52] the community is able to

[25:54] maintain that asset and benefit

[25:55] from that asset over the long

[25:56] haul and that's why we think

[25:59] land banks and land trusts can

[26:00] work well together. So land

[26:02] banks really are critical

[26:04] housing partners so for example

[26:06] in a recent survey from last

[26:06] year by the Center for Community

[26:08] Progress a partner of ours

[26:09] that's that's also based in

[26:09] Washingtondc

[26:12] they surveyed land banks and

[26:14] they found that70% of them are

[26:16] either currently engaging or

[26:17] plan to engage in housing

[26:18] development.housing development

[26:20] is a critical goal of land

[26:22] banks. it's not the only one but

[26:24] it's often at the forefront of

[26:26] the of the community members and

[26:27] the and the partners and the

[26:28] local government that create

[26:29] these land banks

[26:31] Land banks also are a pipeline

[26:32] for challenge inventory. I mean

[26:34] one of the biggest challenges in

[26:36] many communities where land

[26:38] banks are getting started is the

[26:40] fact that there's this value

[26:42] gap. basicallysically the cost

[26:44] of acquiring and rehabilitating

[26:46] the property exceeds what the

[26:48] the the ultimate enterprise

[26:50] could be. So having the

[26:52] disposition process through

[26:54] through a land bank can can

[26:54] reduce the cost and actually

[26:56] make those deals pencil out and

[26:58] that's critically important.

[26:59] There's also imple

[27:00] ment ation of comprehensive

[27:02] strategies including as I

[27:04] mentioned before, not just

[27:06] housing but recreation and more

[27:07] there's some really good

[27:08] examples across the country of

[27:12] in uses for commercial public

[27:14] health resources and other

[27:16] outcomes so again the community

[27:18] has to be deeply involved

[27:18] because there's gonna be lots of

[27:20] different priorities within that

[27:22] community but also different

[27:23] types of properties will have

[27:24] better uses than they would in

[27:26] others they might be in an area

[27:28] that needs a certain type of

[27:29] resolution

[27:30] and it might not be suitable for

[27:32] say housing or recreation and

[27:34] that means meeting the

[27:36] prioritized needs of the

[27:38] communities which we identify as

[27:39] we work through the land bank

[27:41] creation process

[27:44] Furthermore there's like a

[27:46] couple of great examples across

[27:48] the country. So in Houston

[27:50] Houston Texas, the Houston

[27:52] Landrust which we worked on and

[27:54] helped get off the ground has

[27:56] been working on a to design

[28:00] how they move forward through a

[28:01] collaborative process with

[28:02] partners across the country.

[28:02] that's a good example in a very

[28:06] large city. one of the more

[28:06] interesting examples that we

[28:08] like to think of talk about

[28:10] is what's happening in the

[28:11] Richmond Virginia area so the

[28:12] maggie Walkerunity Landrust

[28:14] is is about

[28:18] roughly 10 years old they're in

[28:19] not just the city of Richmond

[28:20] but two adjacent counties and

[28:22] there are a hybrid Virginia law

[28:24] which I think is a good model

[28:26] allows the land bank

[28:28] jurisdiction to use the term

[28:32] that's in SB1478 to approve

[28:32] existing nonprofits as a land

[28:36] bank. So Maggie Walker in

[28:38] Richmondvirginia is the land

[28:40] bank for the city of Richmond

[28:42] plus henrico and Chesterfield

[28:44] counties and that allows the

[28:45] process to be a little bit more

[28:45] effici

[28:48] ent and today in the city of

[28:50] Richmond about 37 properties

[28:54] have been come under control

[28:56] of the land bank 30 through the

[28:58] tax foreclosure lien process

[29:00] which is critical6 through

[29:02] donations by the municipality by

[29:04] the city of Richmond that were

[29:06] seen as surplus land for the

[29:08] city and then one which is an

[29:10] interesting example was a a

[29:10] donation of a branch by the Bank

[29:12] of America and that is currently

[29:14] undergoing considerations

[29:18] for for how it can become a more

[29:19] productive use. so there's lots

[29:20] of different ways that

[29:22] properties come to the land bank

[29:24] and that's what's I think

[29:26] critical is that the land bank

[29:28] processes to be open and and and

[29:30] it's acquisition process. Good

[29:32] examples also exist in Minnesota

[29:34] and then one thing that's

[29:36] notable is that in Ohio there

[29:38] are 88 counties,71 of those

[29:40] counties have a land bank and

[29:42] the law has been on the books

[29:44] for about 20 years but in2015

[29:45] the Ohio legislature

[29:47] updated it and that was able to

[29:50] expand the ability of counties

[29:52] to create land banks and that

[29:54] included many rural counties

[29:54] throughout the state and many of

[29:56] the larger cities as well. So

[29:58] there's lots of good examples

[30:00] it's a very diverse group of

[30:02] land banks but also

[30:04] communities and also a processes

[30:05] to get there

[30:10] in this final one example is

[30:12] happening in atlanta. they

[30:12] have recently updated their

[30:14] policy in2024. there's a

[30:16] relationship between the Atlanta

[30:18] metroland Bank and the Atlanta

[30:19] Landrust. the Atlanta Landrust

[30:20] again is another partner member

[30:22] of our organization that

[30:24] works on affordable

[30:26] homeownership and housing in

[30:28] that region. there's a pilot

[30:30] program this link would actually

[30:31] work if you wanted to explore a

[30:32] little bit more about what's

[30:34] going on in atlanta. they have a

[30:36] robust methodology to ensure

[30:37] that there's long term

[30:37] affordability for multi

[30:40] ple generations they prior

[30:42] prioritize the disposition of

[30:44] certain types of properties and

[30:46] they ensure that the conveyance

[30:49] or the discounted sale makes

[30:50] those deals work so they have a

[30:52] a ceiling on the price is a

[30:54] share of the fair market value

[30:56] that these properties can be

[30:56] disposed of to nonprofits but

[30:58] that again allows the properties

[31:00] to pencil out for the projects

[31:04] to pencil out and growing and

[31:06] growingly expensive market in

[31:07] Atlanta.

[31:11] so with that I'm done again I

[31:12] appreciate the time to speak

[31:14] before you and the committee and

[31:16] thank you again madam chair and

[31:17] thank you again Senator Kkirk

[31:18] granted solutions is here to be

[31:20] helpful in any way that we

[31:22] possibly can. we are working in

[31:23] Oklahoma we are committed to

[31:24] working with new partners across

[31:26] the state and we look forward to

[31:28] working with the committee, your

[31:30] staff and anybody else that's

[31:30] interested in talking talking

[31:32] with us about affordable housing

[31:34] and housing with lasting

[31:35] affordability. thank you again.

[31:38] thank you so much Mr Ryan. If if

[31:40] you're able to stay till the end

[31:43] just in case there's questions

[31:44] I'd appreciate it Absolutely

[31:46] Great thank you thank you for

[31:48] that presentation for giving us

[31:49] some some great national models

[31:50] to look at. I appreciate it so

[31:52] much. next up I'm pleased to

[31:54] introduce Angieerker she's an

[31:56] Oklahoma attorney and realtor

[31:58] and she has a real passion for

[32:00] land banks and really put it on

[32:02] my radar so I'm pleased to

[32:02] hear what she wants to

[32:03] highlight.

[32:06] well thank you for taking my

[32:08] call a couple of years ago and

[32:09] listening to me. I really

[32:10] appreciate it. Thank you Doug. I

[32:12] really appreciate what you said

[32:13] and Katrina too you guys have

[32:14] really explained very well

[32:16] how land banks work and what

[32:17] they do and how they will

[32:18] benefit Oklahomans. I'm gonna

[32:20] talk a little bit about the

[32:24] the land bank legislation itself

[32:26] and I also want to thank my

[32:26] students who are probably

[32:28] watching because I bribed them

[32:29] with extra credit if they will

[32:30] watch this so thank you guys

[32:34] ok so oh I guess I need to do

[32:35] this here we go

[32:35] no

[32:39] Which one

[32:44] it's not working

[32:47] there we go.

[32:49] OK ok so who does this bill

[32:50] matter to first of all it's

[32:52] going to matter to Oklahomans

[32:53] who need affordable housing and

[32:54] we know that we have a lot of

[32:56] people who are in the low income

[32:58] and moderate income and even

[32:59] what you would consider a median

[33:02] income who cannot afford homes

[33:03] whether it's renting or

[33:04] purchasing it matters to i

[33:06] municipalities for dealing with

[33:07] that lack of affordable housing

[33:08] it's been in the news we have a

[33:10] lack of affordable housing in

[33:12] this state and this land bank

[33:13] legislation is a wonderful

[33:14] vehicle a wonderful tool to help

[33:15] municipalities

[33:19] address that need nonprofits

[33:22] like Katrina's and doug's and

[33:23] anyone else here who's

[33:24] representing a nonprofit who has

[33:26] a passion for affordable housing

[33:29] it's going to help you also be a

[33:30] party to the land bank and help

[33:31] create more affordable housing

[33:34] and developers construction

[33:36] companies, crews people who care

[33:38] about building and creating

[33:39] affordable housing in their

[33:40] communities they can turn these

[33:42] problem properties into

[33:43] affordable housing

[33:45] so today we're gonna talk about

[33:48] oh that really worked what

[33:50] SB147 does and doesn't do what

[33:52] it says what it doesn't says I'm

[33:54] gonna respond to a couple of

[33:55] concerns from opposing

[33:56] stakeholders and hopefully I

[33:58] will allay your fears and I'm

[34:00] gonna recommend a few targeted

[34:01] changes that might help us still

[34:02] succeed in the2027 session

[34:06] so our housing paradox here in

[34:08] Oklahoma we have about220,000

[34:10] plus vacant housing units and

[34:12] that's across the state. I'm

[34:13] talking about the entire state

[34:14] you can find that information in

[34:17] the housing finance agencies's

[34:19] yearly housing needs assessment

[34:20] we have about 80,000 plus rental

[34:22] homes that we need and this is

[34:24] for the lowest tier income

[34:26] Oklahomans and you can go to the

[34:28] Oklahoma watchchmarch2026

[34:30] study and read that there we

[34:32] have roughly 12,000 vacant or

[34:33] abandoned buildings just in

[34:36] the OKC metro area so for this

[34:38] statistic you can go to the

[34:39] city of Oklahoma City's

[34:40] estimation of what's out there

[34:43] vacant tax delinquent

[34:45] property is a resource a vital

[34:46] resource that we have that is

[34:48] just sitting idle it's it's

[34:50] costing us money it is not doing

[34:52] anything for the neighborhoods

[34:53] where it is it is causing

[34:57] concern and and crime and it

[34:58] security and all of the things

[35:00] that that a a property can

[35:01] negatively affect it is causing

[35:02] that to happen and the land

[35:03] banks this legisl

[35:06] ation is going to be that legal

[35:07] tool that lets whatever

[35:08] community it's in turn that

[35:10] problem property into a

[35:12] profitable and productive

[35:14] resource and become affordable

[35:15] housing or as doug mentioned

[35:16] affordable

[35:18] commercial property as well

[35:20] someone wanting to start maybe a

[35:21] small business

[35:25] what does usB1478 actually do it

[35:28] creates a quasigovernmental and

[35:29] I'll tell you why I call it that

[35:30] in just a second but it's it's a

[35:33] it's a public private

[35:34] agreement organization that

[35:36] gives whatever municipality

[35:39] chooses to create one the power

[35:39] to

[35:42] to take vacant abandoned

[35:44] dilapidated property with with

[35:46] cloud and title with issues it

[35:47] allows them to one

[35:52] wash what is owed on taxes they

[35:54] wipe the tax delinquency clear

[35:56] and then the most important

[35:57] thing like Katrina was talking

[35:58] about one of those holding

[36:00] issues and the time constraint

[36:03] issues is they allow the land

[36:06] bank to clear the title that is

[36:07] a lot of times the one thing

[36:09] keeping a piece of property in

[36:11] its state of disrepair in its

[36:12] state of just becoming a drain

[36:15] on society we can clear that

[36:16] title and get it back into

[36:17] productive and profitable use.

[36:20] the land bank will identify

[36:22] these properties they are vacant

[36:24] they are abandoned they are tax

[36:24] delinquent and they are within

[36:26] whatever jurisdiction that land

[36:27] that land bank

[36:28] covers

[36:32] they will then acquire those

[36:32] they can acquire them through

[36:34] tax foreclosure through

[36:35] donations through purchase

[36:37] through municipal transfer. they

[36:39] will then hold and prepare that

[36:42] land for productive use and

[36:44] that's when they clear the title

[36:45] that's when they ready it they

[36:46] cut the grass they ensure

[36:48] security they put it into a

[36:50] state of basically think of it

[36:51] like it's now for sale and

[36:52] you're showing the property kind

[36:54] of they stage it right that kind

[36:55] of idea they're getting it ready

[36:55] to go out to the public

[36:59] they then return it to pub

[37:01] productive public use it's

[37:02] conveyed as public space it

[37:05] can be conveyed as public or

[37:06] affordable housing directly from

[37:10] the land bank and it can

[37:12] follow whatever local priorities

[37:13] are set within that land bank so

[37:14] what's good for Oklahoma City's

[37:16] landba may not be good for ryan

[37:18] County's land bank and vice

[37:20] versa so each land bank is able

[37:21] to set their community goals

[37:25] accountability is built into

[37:27] this legislation there is no

[37:28] power of eminent domain so

[37:30] people do not need to worry

[37:30] about the government coming and

[37:32] just taking their property there

[37:34] is no takings clause in this

[37:37] legislation it expressly denies

[37:40] eminent domain full stop the

[37:41] open meeting and open records

[37:42] acts do apply to this so any

[37:44] board meetings that happen and

[37:45] any meetings that occur with

[37:48] whomever the land bank wants to

[37:49] meet with are subject to that

[37:52] board members for the land bank

[37:54] they serve without compensation

[37:57] it is no salary no per diem

[37:58] beyond reasonable expenses and

[38:01] it is a volunteer opportunity

[38:02] to give back to your

[38:04] municipality theres a

[38:06] conflict of interest clause

[38:07] built in no board member or

[38:08] employee of the land bank can

[38:10] hold an interest in any land

[38:11] meaning real or vacant land

[38:16] or contracts no contracts are

[38:17] allowed to be held by board

[38:17] members or employees

[38:20] bonds I know doug mentioned

[38:22] bonds a minute ago and I just

[38:24] want to ensure that they are not

[38:26] backed by taxpayers whatever

[38:27] bonds are issued by the land

[38:28] bank are not the debt of any

[38:30] city municipality, county state

[38:31] they are the debt of the land

[38:31] bank itself.

[38:36] so a minute ago I mentioned no

[38:38] eminent domain that is a fear

[38:39] that I think a lot of people

[38:40] have with land bank legislation

[38:43] I just want to be very clear

[38:46] that no imminent domain exists

[38:47] anywhere in this bill it is not

[38:48] allowed it's not there so I hope

[38:50] I have allayed that fear. Every

[38:52] land bank is also an opt in

[38:54] municipalities do not have to

[38:56] adopt land bank legislation

[38:57] within their jurisdiction but

[38:58] they can choose to do so and

[39:00] Doug mentioned a wonderful

[39:02] array of opportunities you have

[39:03] to create the land banks

[39:03] current nonprofits

[39:06] creating a new one there are

[39:08] several options the goal of the

[39:10] land bank is not to hold and

[39:13] hoard property it is to exit

[39:14] that property to take it from

[39:16] that vacant abandoned

[39:18] dilapidated state that it is in

[39:20] to put it into this productive

[39:23] holding pattern and get it out

[39:24] the door get it donated to a

[39:26] nonprofit get it sold to a

[39:28] nonprofit, get it back out

[39:29] there, get it sold to an

[39:31] individual get it back out

[39:32] there into productive use

[39:33] generating positive taxes right

[39:36] positives property taxes

[39:40] Another fear is that this is

[39:42] going to cost taxpayers I've

[39:44] already mentioned that any bonds

[39:45] associated with landbank are

[39:46] not the responsibility of the

[39:48] taxpayers there is no

[39:51] mandatory tax appropriation we

[39:52] are funded we the land banks are

[39:54] funded by grants loans and self-

[39:56] generated income.land banks are

[39:59] allowed to hold some property

[40:00] to generate income they can

[40:02] charge rents they can charge

[40:04] they can sell it and and the

[40:04] income they get from those those

[40:07] fees help generate more land for

[40:07] more nonprofits more

[40:09] people.

[40:11] again I've mentioned board

[40:12] members serve without

[40:13] compensation there are no

[40:16] salaries the debt stays with the

[40:17] land bank it does not go to the

[40:19] public I've mentioned already

[40:20] that bonds are the land bank's

[40:22] own limited obligation and must

[40:24] say so in that wording on the

[40:25] face of the bont

[40:28] municipalities and states are

[40:30] not liable. The tax capture is a

[40:32] net gain rather than a loss

[40:33] right now these properties are

[40:34] sitting there the taxes are not

[40:36] being paid the bills are adding

[40:38] up we we have to cut the grass

[40:40] we have to ensure security that

[40:42] costs money so it's a drain on

[40:44] the municipality oncece a landba

[40:46] takes that property and puts it

[40:47] back out into productive use

[40:50] there's a 5 year50% tax revenue

[40:52] share plan so for five years the

[40:54] land bank gets the half of the

[40:55] tax revenue and the municipality

[40:56] gets the other half at the end

[40:58] of that five years it all goes

[41:00] to the municipality that helps

[41:01] fund the land bank's

[41:01] work

[41:08] Another fear is loss of local

[41:08] control

[41:12] the state is not mandating

[41:13] through this legislation that

[41:14] any municipality has to create a

[41:16] land bank it is not saying that

[41:18] at all jurisdictions and

[41:20] municipalities have that choice

[41:22] themselves your board for

[41:23] your land bank and your

[41:26] jurisdiction is filled with your

[41:28] members of your community it is

[41:30] filled with it it is run

[41:32] through your local bylaws that

[41:34] you create it sets local

[41:35] priorities again something

[41:38] that's good for Oklahoma City

[41:39] might not be good forhaie. Sha

[41:41] ie gets to set their own their

[41:42] own agenda for their their land

[41:44] bbake. Oklahoma City sets theirs

[41:46] so that it matches the needs of

[41:47] the people living in those

[41:48] jurisdictions if you so

[41:50] choose to dissolve a land ba at

[41:52] any time that is also on the

[41:53] local level you do not have to

[41:55] get permission from the state or

[41:56] anyone else to disband or

[41:57] dissolve your land bank.

[42:02] OK what can we do to maybe

[42:04] strengthen the legislation going

[42:07] into the2027 s session

[42:10] section 9E has a youth hierarchy

[42:11] and I think that something that

[42:12] we could possibly do here is

[42:14] instead of using the word may we

[42:16] could use the word must which

[42:17] has a little more teeth to it

[42:17] making

[42:22] affordable housing set asides

[42:24] a must for land banks and you do

[42:26] that by you can create

[42:28] covenants that target low income

[42:30] housing you can also put deed

[42:32] restrictions on the properties

[42:33] doug mentioned something like

[42:35] this a minute ago keeping that

[42:36] affordable housing in the

[42:38] affordable housing stream no

[42:39] matter who buys or sells it or

[42:41] rents it so if I purchased a

[42:43] home for $100,000 I am allowed

[42:46] growth it is a slower and lower

[42:47] percentage of growth and maybe

[42:48] the houses around me but I am

[42:49] allowed growth

[42:52] and then if I choose to sell I

[42:53] am bound by a deed restriction

[42:54] to sell with that limited

[42:56] growth. I still get to make a

[42:57] profit. I'm still a private

[42:58] citizen who has now equity in my

[43:00] home and it is growing just like

[43:02] the equity around me it's just

[43:04] at a more affordable level so

[43:05] that the next person who

[43:06] purchases my home can also

[43:07] afford it

[43:10] we can require a community

[43:12] engagement plan the theenter for

[43:14] Community Progress if you do not

[43:16] understand land banks or want to

[43:17] know more at all please go to

[43:19] their website they have the most

[43:21] amazing information it is

[43:22] anything you want to know about

[43:24] a land bank current future

[43:25] whatever you want to know

[43:27] they've got the information

[43:30] resident trust public trust

[43:32] private trust is is really

[43:32] something that we need to

[43:35] continue to focus on and

[43:36] there's no requirement in the

[43:37] legislation today so possibly

[43:37] putting

[43:39] something in there where we we

[43:41] have some community engagement

[43:43] within the bill might give

[43:43] might allay some fears of the

[43:44] public

[43:48] broader regional formation

[43:49] I've said over and over that

[43:50] this is the choice of the

[43:52] municipality or jurisdiction

[43:54] creating it but we could also

[43:54] maybe put something in the bill

[43:56] that allows those jurisdictions

[43:57] to band together because we have

[43:59] some smaller jurisdictions who

[44:01] may not be able to take on

[44:03] this this in their their single

[44:04] jurisdiction so they could band

[44:06] together with some smaller

[44:06] communities around them and

[44:08] create a larger land bank

[44:10] that serves the people in those

[44:12] concurrent jurisdictions that

[44:12] form that land bank.

[44:16] we can also add additional

[44:18] annual public reporting maybe we

[44:19] require a yearly report on the

[44:20] properties acquired the

[44:22] properties disposed of and the

[44:24] outcomes achieved by all of

[44:25] those properties this

[44:27] directly answers cost and it

[44:28] also gives a lot of transparency

[44:29] from the land bank to the people

[44:30] it serves

[44:35] OK so I of course am in favor of

[44:37] the land bacon I just wanted to

[44:38] let you all know how the

[44:40] current legislation sits what we

[44:41] could possibly do to make it

[44:43] even better and any address any

[44:44] fears that anyone has about it

[44:47] currently I've got my contact

[44:48] information

[44:51] I think on the next slide no we

[44:53] do not. OK I will get my contact

[44:54] information for you if you have

[44:55] any questions I'm happy to speak

[44:55] to you

[44:58] at length about this but thank

[44:59] you madam chairir, thank you

[45:00] Julia again for taking the time

[45:02] to listen to me and put this

[45:03] together. I really appreciate it

[45:04] thank you Katrina for your input

[45:05] and doug as well.

[45:08] thank you so much I appreciate

[45:10] you I do want to move to our

[45:12] last speaker before we do any

[45:14] closing or questions I'm very

[45:17] appreciative of doctor Reading

[45:19] from the absenteehawneehousing

[45:22] Authority we we have many

[45:24] different we had a big long list

[45:26] of of great speakers that we

[45:28] could recruit but we knew that

[45:29] we wanted to hear from someone

[45:31] outside the OKC intulsa metro

[45:32] because it's just a different

[45:34] scenario and we know that

[45:35] they've been doing strong work

[45:35] for a long time sos thank you

[45:36] very much

[45:37] for being here today

[45:47] day to day on the chiropractor

[45:48] for the adenteehawnee tribal

[45:50] healthystem and I sit on the

[45:51] board at the absentee Shawnee

[45:52] housing Authority.

[45:54] that really means two things

[45:57] I have a passion for affordable

[46:00] housing and I usually spend my

[46:02] week with people who don't have

[46:03] a chance to sit at the table

[46:06] like I am today. right now

[46:08] across rural Oklahoma we got

[46:10] wonderful people a young medical

[46:12] assistant at a rural hospital,

[46:14] middle aged elementary school

[46:15] teacher or a newly hired

[46:17] sheriff's deputy who show up,

[46:18] work their tails off for their

[46:19] community day in and day out

[46:22] but when their shift ends a lot

[46:24] of them have to drive45 minutes

[46:26] to an hour just to find a safe

[46:27] affordable place to sleep.

[46:30] we like to call this the missing

[46:33] middle housing problem but out

[46:34] in our rural communities it's

[46:35] pretty simple

[46:37] our workers want to live where

[46:38] they serve but the

[46:40] infrastructure and labor costs

[46:41] leave our local builders unable

[46:42] to meet that demand.

[46:43] so what are we supposed to do

[46:43] about it

[46:54] as some of the previous speakers

[46:55] have shown

[46:59] it's a familiar sight in small

[47:00] towns everywhere and overgrown

[47:02] vacant lot stood an awkward leap

[47:03] between two well-maintained

[47:03] homes

[47:05] a patient of mine owned

[47:08] one of those now vacant lots

[47:12] he and his siblings inherited

[47:14] their child at home about 20

[47:15] years ago in lawwton.

[47:16] but could never agree on what to

[47:17] do with it.

[47:20] so it sat vacant for years

[47:23] and eventually the city

[47:23] condemned it

[47:26] with code leans piling up far

[47:29] beyond the now empty lot's value

[47:29] the family just walked away

[47:32] now it's just dead weight and

[47:33] county rolls

[47:34] and somebody's got to mow it

[47:39] and there's more baby boomers

[47:40] pass away and properties stall

[47:42] and probate this won't be an

[47:43] isolated incident

[47:46] Most of us understand when a

[47:48] business opportunity has

[47:50] uncertain costs and legal

[47:52] unknowns private capital walks

[47:53] away every single time

[47:56] our local builders won't touch

[47:58] these vacant lots because

[47:59] clearing the title costs more

[48:00] than the dirt itself is worth.

[48:07] so one solution

[48:08] is a land bank

[48:12] as described in previous

[48:14] presentations. However, a small

[48:16] town of 1500 can't afford to

[48:18] hire another attorney for two or

[48:19] three overgrown lots a year

[48:23] if we force rural towns to build

[48:25] urbanstyle land banks from

[48:26] scratch they'll fall flat on

[48:27] their face

[48:36] so this bill has a way around

[48:38] that which I do appreciate.

[48:40] Rural municipalities take pride

[48:41] in running their own affairs

[48:43] that's why this is a 100%

[48:45] voluntary and towns and counties

[48:46] can join hands across judicial

[48:48] districts using standard

[48:51] interlocal cooperation templates

[48:54] that is a long word for that.

[48:56] to share legal costs and clean

[48:57] up titles in bulk.

[49:00] this bill isn't the government

[49:02] playing developer it's the

[49:04] government getting out of the

[49:06] way by clearing legal obstacles

[49:07] so builders can actually build

[49:10] and because legal fees are

[49:12] recovered directly from the land

[49:14] bank's property sales it turns

[49:16] these vacant lots from zero

[49:18] revenue liabilities and to s

[49:20] into a self sustaining cycle

[49:22] without state constant

[49:22] appropriations.

[49:33] what should happen to this land

[49:35] once the land bank clears up the

[49:37] title. We can't let out of state

[49:38] private developers swoop in

[49:40] put up cheap speculative short

[49:41] term rentals

[49:43] and drain money out of our rural

[49:44] communities.

[49:47] Once the land bank clears off

[49:50] those old lanes the clean title

[49:51] can go directly to community

[49:53] partners like our local housing

[49:54] authorities rural school

[49:56] districts nonprofit builders and

[49:57] local contractors who live down

[49:57] the street.

[50:02] Downtown lots and small towns

[50:03] are a great fit for

[50:03] organizations like mine.

[50:06] since the roads and utilities

[50:08] are already there we can turn a

[50:09] clean title into a finished home

[50:09] in just six months.

[50:12] h r land banks we can unlock

[50:14] these neglected properties and

[50:16] help revitalize communities one

[50:17] home at a time

[50:19] we just wrapped up building

[50:22] a home on Main street in

[50:24] Tecumseh on a lot similar to

[50:25] something that we could acquire

[50:25] from a land bank.

[50:29] this loan is actually big enough

[50:31] we'll be adding a second home

[50:33] there in the future but for now

[50:34] at least one family has a safe

[50:35] affordable home.

[50:39] during this whole process the

[50:40] local community retains total

[50:42] flexibility if a private builder

[50:44] wants to pay a lot for a lot at

[50:46] market value great that just

[50:47] means the land bank has more

[50:48] money

[50:49] to do their due

[50:53] if the town needs workforce

[50:54] housing for local firefighters

[50:56] they have the option to add deep

[50:58] covenants so the house stays

[51:00] affordable for the folks who

[51:01] actually keep their town

[51:01] running.

[51:08] so let's just say this land bank

[51:12] legislation passes everything

[51:14] works according to plan and now

[51:16] the developer has a clean title

[51:17] and a plot of land ready to be

[51:18] developed. where are they going

[51:19] to get the financing?

[51:22] Oklahoma already has some great

[51:24] tools to help those rural

[51:26] developers build new homes like

[51:29] the OfA administrated0% home

[51:31] stability loans and the Oklahoma

[51:32] Housing Trustund which legally

[51:35] sets aside65 to75% of its

[51:36] dollars for non urban

[51:37] communities.

[51:41] my organization was the first

[51:42] housing authority in the state

[51:44] to use the0% home stability

[51:45] loans

[51:48] the project should be completed

[51:49] in November

[51:52] it will add 8 new affordable

[51:54] housing units to las area near

[51:55] Lake Thunderbird.

[51:57] right now many of our local

[52:01] and rural towns miss out on

[52:03] these state programs simply

[52:04] because they can't assemble

[52:06] clean buildable dirt fast enough

[52:11] Lambbank's hand local builders a

[52:13] clean padready footprint so they

[52:14] can pour concrete on day one.

[52:18] Land banks are statutory

[52:20] passthrough entities they clear

[52:21] the title, pass the dirt to a

[52:22] builder and get it back onto the

[52:24] county tax rolls to fund our

[52:25] local schools in county first

[52:25] responders

[52:28] a land bank gives our rural

[52:30] communities the legal tools to

[52:31] build their own future

[52:32] thank you so much for your time

[52:38] thank you so much Dr I really

[52:40] appreciate those examples and

[52:41] that it's great to hear about

[52:42] the housing stability fund being

[52:44] put to work really pleased

[52:46] and hope that thought's

[52:46] generating lots of opportunities

[52:49] all across the state madam

[52:50] chairir if you have any

[52:52] questions I have one or two but

[52:53] defer to you if you have

[52:56] anything you wanted to ask. I do

[52:58] whoever wants to answer this,

[53:00] I'm particularly interested in

[53:02] the actual mechanics of how this

[53:04] is going to work so what are the

[53:05] timelines of

[53:08] walk me through the process of

[53:10] how long it takes for a property

[53:12] to become potentially delinquent

[53:14] and at that point and how does

[53:16] it actually get put into the

[53:18] land bank if this were to be a

[53:20] tool that the state had I I'd

[53:22] like to understand like what

[53:23] that process actually looks

[53:23] like.

[53:25] Angie is that you

[53:26] so

[53:32] the process in Oklahoma is about

[53:34] a three year process to become

[53:35] tax delinquent to go to a tax

[53:36] foreclosure sale that's how it

[53:38] currently works please somebody

[53:40] correct me if I'm off on that

[53:40] but it's about a three year

[53:42] process before you end up in tax

[53:43] foreclosure

[53:46] the land bank would be set up

[53:47] within the jurisdiction that it

[53:50] encompasses and that

[53:52] jurisdiction would create the

[53:53] process that you're asking about

[53:55] so the legislation does not

[53:58] speak to that process that is

[53:59] set up by the land bank once it

[54:00] is established through their

[54:03] local bylaws and that would fit

[54:04] excuse me that would fit

[54:06] whatever the local municipality

[54:10] jurisdictions community needs

[54:12] are so whatever the the

[54:13] community wants and needs that's

[54:14] how it will be set up but it

[54:15] could be donated from the

[54:18] the city let's just say Oklahoma

[54:20] cityity the count Oklahohoma

[54:22] County Taxmission has a list

[54:24] right? They could auction it off

[54:26] and we could be the bidder the

[54:27] land bank could be the bidder

[54:28] they could donate it properly

[54:30] they just can't get rid of they

[54:31] can donate it the land bank

[54:32] if it has funds can purchase

[54:34] them at auction. there are just

[54:35] a a bunch of different ways that

[54:36] that can happen but the the

[54:40] the function that you're asking

[54:41] about is going to be set up once

[54:42] bylaws are created by that

[54:44] specific land bank so it stays

[54:45] local

[54:50] yeah well to that point so I

[54:52] mean none of this would speed up

[54:53] that foreclosure process or the

[54:54] tax delinquency process but on

[54:58] the other end if there was a

[54:59] procedure in place once a

[55:01] property became tax delinquent

[55:02] whatever waiting periods have

[55:05] already been legally followed

[55:07] would I mean what kind of

[55:08] timeline would it take if a land

[55:10] bank were able to take that

[55:12] transfer quickly? could it be a

[55:13] six month process shorter what

[55:15] what are your thoughts or maybe

[55:16] that's a question for maybe

[55:17] that's a question for doug

[55:18] Ryan to talk about

[55:20] I don't know Katrina do you want

[55:23] to take that it would also

[55:25] depend on what lean so it would

[55:26] be it would have to go through

[55:28] the process of clearing the

[55:30] liens so this is just an

[55:32] estimate more of a

[55:34] guesstimate probably 3 to6

[55:36] months so we would have to

[55:37] determine what liens are on

[55:38] there what would have to be

[55:40] cleared if it's just a matter

[55:43] of clearing some tax liens I

[55:46] know one example of hearing

[55:47] about some medical liens that

[55:48] might take a little bit longer

[55:49] to clear

[55:52] but if it's just coming in from

[55:53] tax foreclosure then that would

[55:55] be a matter of clearing the

[55:56] clearing the title taking it

[55:58] through that process for

[56:01] Oklahoma knowing about the

[56:03] typical foreclosure process I

[56:04] would say an estimate of 3 to6

[56:09] months would you comment on I'm

[56:12] assuming that this could be

[56:13] there could be a stipulation

[56:14] that these properties would only

[56:17] go into commercial use or or

[56:18] private ownership so you know

[56:19] since

[56:20] nonprofits don't pay property

[56:22] tax I just want to spell out

[56:23] that like a county could create

[56:24] a land bank and then they could

[56:26] require that that property only

[56:27] be transferred to future

[56:29] taxpaying ownership right

[56:33] yes so the once the property is

[56:34] transferred from the land bank

[56:36] to whichever entity or private

[56:39] citizen or construction

[56:40] developer that that that five

[56:42] year sharing tax revenue

[56:44] sharing plan goes into place and

[56:45] then after that it goes straight

[56:45] to the county

[56:50] tax commissioner you can also

[56:51] s stipulate within the deeds

[56:53] that it stay within a taxc

[56:53] creating use

[56:56] deed restrictions are definitely

[56:58] allowed and again that's going

[56:58] to serve whatever jurisdiction

[56:59] or municipality that it's in

[57:02] and then I just have one

[57:03] question for Doug. Doug, would

[57:05] you speak specifically to

[57:08] examples you've seen in rural

[57:10] areas where you think this is an

[57:11] effective process

[57:15] Yeah, sure absolutely I do think

[57:16] there's a couple examples and I

[57:19] noted that Ohio has expanded

[57:21] their land bank authority so

[57:22] many rural counties in in that

[57:24] state do have land banks and I

[57:26] think they're just starting to

[57:27] get off the ground in some cases

[57:28] and I'd be happy to provide more

[57:30] examples but I do think some

[57:31] other examples include Kentucky

[57:32] where land banks have been

[57:35] fairly effective it seems to me

[57:36] from my my reading what's

[57:39] going on in Kentucky and a

[57:40] couple of other places too. I

[57:42] mentioned Indiana and Kansas. I

[57:43] do think there's

[57:45] a there is some recognition that

[57:46] a lot of this did begin in urban

[57:48] areas but it has moved to be

[57:50] more to be an effective tool in

[57:52] rural areas but I think what's

[57:53] critical to understand and again

[57:54] I'm happy to build out more

[57:56] examples as a follow up is

[57:57] that

[58:00] because these are really locally

[58:01] controlled you can respond to

[58:04] land bank process can respond to

[58:05] their local conditions on the

[58:08] ground and put in priorities

[58:09] for commercial use for for

[58:11] taxable use or for housing and I

[58:12] think that's critically

[58:13] important as some of my

[58:14] colleagues had identified but

[58:16] there are definitely some good

[58:17] examples out there and I'd be

[58:18] happy to get some more specifics

[58:21] Great I appreciate that I means

[58:22] and also some of the biggest

[58:27] housing work being done in our

[58:28] states by tribal governments and

[58:29] I think that's really important

[58:30] to look at those relationships

[58:33] too OKok any last questions

[58:40] I think we will wrap up you all

[58:41] have been incredibly efficient

[58:42] thank you for making this work.

[58:44] I think it's awesome to be able

[58:46] to connect this tool as an

[58:48] option in this day of looking at

[58:50] those ways that we can improve

[58:52] housing supply I think you

[58:54] know one of the great things

[58:55] about this option is they can

[58:57] help us you know build that

[58:59] starter home ownership option

[59:02] and affordable homes along with

[59:03] having the priority of thriving

[59:04] communities and looking at that

[59:05] deep challenge that our

[59:06] communities face with vacant

[59:08] and abandoned properties

[59:10] underutilized properties and how

[59:12] we can get them active and

[59:14] serving good purposes again so

[59:16] I'm thrilled to to put this

[59:17] forward as a possible tool and

[59:18] appreciate having the time to

[59:20] focus on this and you know

[59:22] helping more Oklahomans have

[59:24] options for the American dream

[59:25] so thank you very much madam

[59:25] chairir.

[59:28] thank you senatorkirk thank you

[59:30] all for joining us today we're

[59:31] going to take a quick break and

[59:32] we will be back with

[59:32] Senatorallaer.

[59:34] thank you so much

[1:07:50] OK thank you everyone we are

[1:07:51] ahead of schedule

[1:07:52] it's how I like to run things if

[1:07:54] you've been in this committee

[1:07:57] ever before Senatoralahar are

[1:07:59] all of your presenters here your

[1:08:01] speakers everybody ready?

[1:08:02] Yes madamir

[1:08:04] little housekeeping just like

[1:08:06] last time very casual, I'll let

[1:08:08] you run your meeting you

[1:08:09] don't have to work through the

[1:08:11] chair opening up for questions

[1:08:12] and with that Senatoralahar

[1:08:13] floor' yours

[1:08:15] thank you madam chairman first

[1:08:18] time to welcome everybody to the

[1:08:19] interim study on increasing

[1:08:20] workforce housing production

[1:08:22] through public private

[1:08:24] partnerships I think this is

[1:08:25] extremely valuable

[1:08:26] information will be presented

[1:08:28] today and I'm looking forward to

[1:08:30] the presentations and with that

[1:08:31] I'd like to get started madam

[1:08:32] chairirman I'd like to ask

[1:08:37] Tyler Perre to of

[1:08:38] housing forward to starts

[1:08:40] presentations thank you so

[1:08:41] muchsenator thank you madam

[1:08:42] chairir my name is Tyler Perret

[1:08:43] I'm the executive director of

[1:08:45] Housing forward housing

[1:08:47] forward is a two year old

[1:08:48] nonprofit here in the state of

[1:08:50] Oklahoma focused on research

[1:08:52] housing and housing production

[1:08:55] I think as evidenced by the

[1:08:56] number of interim studies today

[1:08:57] on kind of a breadth of issues

[1:08:58] facing housing and housing

[1:09:01] production we can see that

[1:09:02] there is no silver bullet to

[1:09:04] solving issues around

[1:09:06] affordability starter home

[1:09:08] issues and so I think what

[1:09:10] you'll see in in the breadth of

[1:09:11] speakers today but certainly in

[1:09:12] the presentation as well is that

[1:09:13] there's a lot of

[1:09:15] opportunity for us to improve

[1:09:17] the environment to increase

[1:09:18] workforce housing production and

[1:09:20] to increase our ability to meet

[1:09:21] the needs of Oklahomans across

[1:09:24] the state so I'll talk just

[1:09:24] briefly here about what we're

[1:09:26] going to try to cover in a quick

[1:09:28] hour I'll zoom through some

[1:09:30] of the the data around kind of

[1:09:32] where we are in the state of

[1:09:34] Oklahoma around housing and

[1:09:35] housing production

[1:09:36] representative from the Oklahoma

[1:09:38] orklahoma uniformBuilding

[1:09:40] codecommission David atdcock

[1:09:42] we'll speak briefly on some

[1:09:42] building code reform and kind of

[1:09:43] what the OUBcc

[1:09:45] does and some progress that's

[1:09:48] happening in that space and then

[1:09:50] we'll talk more substantially

[1:09:52] about the21st century road to

[1:09:54] housing actct which was federal

[1:09:55] legislation that passed in July

[1:09:57] of last year and kind of how

[1:09:59] Oklahoma stands to benefit from

[1:10:00] some elements of that

[1:10:02] legislation and how we need to

[1:10:03] prepare the state to take

[1:10:04] advantage of a lot of those

[1:10:06] particular opportunities and

[1:10:08] then if we have time I'll opine

[1:10:10] generously about some new

[1:10:12] research around housing on

[1:10:13] faith based

[1:10:15] property and kind of

[1:10:16] unlocking opportunities for that

[1:10:18] so just briefly I mentioned

[1:10:20] Housing forward is a relatively

[1:10:21] new organization in the state we

[1:10:22] believe in an Oklahoma where

[1:10:24] everyone has the freedom freedom

[1:10:25] to live in a home that fits

[1:10:26] their needs their life and their

[1:10:27] future and and really what that

[1:10:28] means is we all need different

[1:10:30] housing typologies across our

[1:10:32] life cycle many of us have lived

[1:10:34] in an apartment many of us have

[1:10:36] lived in a rental house many of

[1:10:38] us own our own homes but we

[1:10:39] don't all do all of those things

[1:10:40] at the same time and we need

[1:10:42] different housing typologies

[1:10:43] across our life cycle and so

[1:10:45] really the work that we do

[1:10:46] focuses on making sure that that

[1:10:48] stock exists so that we can have

[1:10:50] a thro a thriving housing

[1:10:51] ecosystem

[1:10:54] and then obviously we we

[1:10:55] exist to deliver some

[1:10:56] practical solutions and present

[1:10:58] research to to inform policy

[1:11:00] decisions that that bring about

[1:11:01] that reality

[1:11:04] so real quick I'll jump into

[1:11:06] just the state of housing in

[1:11:08] Oklahoma what we've seen over

[1:11:09] the past few years is that the

[1:11:10] rate of home home ownership in

[1:11:14] Oklahoma is declining we used to

[1:11:16] be relatively moderate in our

[1:11:18] positioning state by state in

[1:11:19] the rates of homeownership and

[1:11:20] we're seeing that we dropped

[1:11:22] to41st in just last year

[1:11:23] according to the US Census

[1:11:26] Bureau there's a lot of reasons

[1:11:28] for that but one of them is that

[1:11:30] home prices are continuing to

[1:11:31] increase while incomes

[1:11:34] are increasing at a relatively

[1:11:37] modest rate so there's a lot

[1:11:38] of opportunities that we have at

[1:11:40] the table to start to slow that

[1:11:42] spread between income and home

[1:11:46] price or rental price and again

[1:11:47] many of those have been talked

[1:11:48] about today and other interim

[1:11:48] studies but we're going to talk

[1:11:50] about a few as we move

[1:11:51] through the presentation today

[1:11:54] one of the things that I will

[1:11:56] note is we are seeing some

[1:11:58] pretty significant demographic

[1:12:00] changes across the state

[1:12:02] where we used to see household

[1:12:06] sizes average above 3 people we

[1:12:07] are now seeing household sizes

[1:12:08] average at two people and the

[1:12:10] most common household size

[1:12:11] across the state of Oklahoma is

[1:12:13] two people typically living in

[1:12:15] the same bedroom but our

[1:12:18] house size itself is only

[1:12:20] increasing and now the average

[1:12:21] size of that is roughly2

[1:12:25] 400 square feet. so there

[1:12:26] again as many reasons for that

[1:12:28] that we can talk through today

[1:12:29] but one of them is that we've

[1:12:31] we've really honed in on one

[1:12:32] particular housing typology in

[1:12:34] the state of Oklahoma which is

[1:12:36] the detached single family home

[1:12:37] in Greenfield development and

[1:12:39] so really what we are interested

[1:12:40] in doing across the state is

[1:12:42] diversifying the number of

[1:12:44] housing typologies that we have

[1:12:46] so that we can continue to match

[1:12:47] the demographic trends we're

[1:12:47] seeing from the population

[1:12:50] and with that I'm gonna turn

[1:12:52] it over to David adcock the

[1:12:54] CEO of OUBcC to talk more

[1:12:56] specifically about building code

[1:12:58] and how reform happens in the

[1:12:59] state of Oklahoma.

[1:13:00] thank you

[1:13:04] you as you said umm David adcock

[1:13:06] I'm the CEO of Oklahoma

[1:13:08] uniformedtting Code Commission.

[1:13:11] we were established in2009

[1:13:12] and we were established to

[1:13:17] create a statewide building

[1:13:18] code. just keep working

[1:13:22] it's the off it's the offseason

[1:13:23] in the capitals so we're just

[1:13:24] going to have to keep pushing

[1:13:26] good that construction happens

[1:13:28] exactly as David starts and it's

[1:13:30] kind of amazing very very yes

[1:13:33] appropriate there so yes we were

[1:13:35] we were established in2009 to

[1:13:38] create a minimum building code

[1:13:40] for residential and commercial

[1:13:42] construction to be used for

[1:13:46] all entities in the state umri

[1:13:48] to that there was no review

[1:13:49] process

[1:13:51] of any code. there was national

[1:13:53] code or national model codes

[1:13:54] available that were being

[1:13:56] adopted by the state but they

[1:13:58] were being adopted as published

[1:14:00] the industry as a whole came

[1:14:03] together and looked at what

[1:14:04] could be done and asked the

[1:14:06] legislature to create a process

[1:14:08] that these codes would be

[1:14:10] reviewed prior to their adoption

[1:14:12] to see what was best for

[1:14:14] Oklahoma and create again a

[1:14:15] minimum standard for the state

[1:14:18] of Oklahoma and construction

[1:14:19] the the model codes are

[1:14:21] are published every three years

[1:14:22] with multiple changes in those

[1:14:24] three year periods so there

[1:14:26] was a need to look at those

[1:14:28] changes and not just

[1:14:29] automatically adopt what came

[1:14:30] came through on those

[1:14:34] so the process that was

[1:14:36] developed by the commission was

[1:14:40] there are several codes first

[1:14:40] of all there are several codes

[1:14:44] that the that we look at

[1:14:45] including the fire code and

[1:14:46] plumbing code and mechanical

[1:14:48] code electrical code building

[1:14:49] code and then the residential

[1:14:52] code these are all

[1:14:55] individually reviewed by a

[1:14:56] committee that committee is made

[1:14:58] up of volunteers that the

[1:15:00] committee selects from that

[1:15:01] volunteer

[1:15:03] list and it's based on their

[1:15:04] background and their expertise

[1:15:06] in that code related to what we

[1:15:08] will be reviewing for that

[1:15:09] technical committee so

[1:15:13] the commission then solicits

[1:15:15] changes and change proposals to

[1:15:18] those national codes so the

[1:15:19] public and the industry as a

[1:15:22] whole also can then submit those

[1:15:24] code change proposals that

[1:15:25] the technical committee then

[1:15:28] will review and take action on

[1:15:29] either deny or approve or even

[1:15:32] modify those amendments from

[1:15:33] that

[1:15:36] the committee develops a

[1:15:38] presentation for the commission

[1:15:39] it's

[1:15:42] presented then to the commission

[1:15:44] and the commission moves on into

[1:15:46] the rule making process and

[1:15:48] going to the legislature for

[1:15:49] approval for the code.

[1:15:54] so again OUBcC and and what we

[1:15:58] do we we were created one the

[1:16:00] priority was to create this

[1:16:02] minimum state standard for

[1:16:04] construction and then also

[1:16:05] provide training

[1:16:08] throughout the industry in these

[1:16:11] codes that are adopted to

[1:16:14] increase consistency in the

[1:16:17] compliance and regulation of

[1:16:19] those codes one of the things

[1:16:22] that that plague builders and

[1:16:24] the industry as a whole is

[1:16:26] different interpretations of

[1:16:28] those codes you would think

[1:16:30] it would be black and white but

[1:16:32] sometimes it's not you can

[1:16:33] interpret these codes in

[1:16:36] different ways OUBcC has also

[1:16:37] created a

[1:16:38] a formal interpretation

[1:16:40] process for the amendments that

[1:16:43] they do so that again

[1:16:45] reducing the number of ways it

[1:16:46] can be interpreted and

[1:16:48] increasing consistencies these

[1:16:50] consistencies are what sometimes

[1:16:52] will hold up construction

[1:16:54] jobs even in the planning stages

[1:16:56] so again through that

[1:16:58] training process is one way

[1:17:00] we try to reduce that

[1:17:04] but one of the things our our

[1:17:06] process does is try to be

[1:17:08] inclusive and try to get

[1:17:10] everybody involved since I've

[1:17:12] been there in23 we have

[1:17:14] increased that but that

[1:17:16] really is the the point behind

[1:17:19] what we do is there's an

[1:17:21] opportunity for everybody to be

[1:17:22] involved in what the state

[1:17:25] construction code is and in

[1:17:27] doing through going through our

[1:17:30] process I think it's it's a

[1:17:31] good process we just need to get

[1:17:31] more people

[1:17:32] involved in doing that

[1:17:38] it's a good example tyler's

[1:17:39] group housing forward came to us

[1:17:40] while we were reviewing the

[1:17:42] international residential code

[1:17:44] and made some proposals that we

[1:17:48] had to deny simply because they

[1:17:50] would cause conflict with the

[1:17:52] other codes that we had adopted

[1:17:54] so we actually created a

[1:17:58] committee I think his his

[1:17:59] group prem presented with

[1:18:01] amendment after amending their

[1:18:02] initial propo

[1:18:06] s al s in July we had a

[1:18:08] committee a special committee

[1:18:08] together by august

[1:18:14] and we're already meeting and

[1:18:15] we've finished that actual

[1:18:17] committee and there are

[1:18:18] proposals that came out of that

[1:18:21] committee that will affect now

[1:18:24] the24 codes that that go into

[1:18:25] win into effect September 14th

[1:18:30] so yeah ok go ahead

[1:18:35] yeah so as as David mentioned

[1:18:40] building code change should not

[1:18:42] happen quickly and it doesn't

[1:18:44] and that's a good thing we we

[1:18:45] want there to be consistency in

[1:18:47] code and so I think what what

[1:18:49] we have now in in working its

[1:18:52] way through the process at OUBcc

[1:18:53] is representative of a lot of

[1:18:54] feedback a lot of conversation,

[1:18:57] a lot of presentation by experts

[1:18:58] some experts across the country

[1:19:02] and what we see now is is a

[1:19:04] pretty modest and moderate

[1:19:06] path forward in some of these

[1:19:07] building code reforms

[1:19:10] that I think based on my

[1:19:12] opinion creates a potential new

[1:19:14] best practice for a lot of

[1:19:15] states in the country and and

[1:19:18] just to to contrast a little bit

[1:19:19] about what we've seen in some

[1:19:20] other states we've seen a lot of

[1:19:22] whiplash around building code

[1:19:24] reform over the past few years

[1:19:25] where the legislature has taken

[1:19:27] a whole slate of building code

[1:19:29] reforms passed it straight

[1:19:30] through and then left code

[1:19:32] officials fire marshals and

[1:19:34] other people with the loose ends

[1:19:36] to try to tie up what that

[1:19:37] actual statute means

[1:19:39] and we don't have to look too

[1:19:40] far south to our neighbor in

[1:19:42] Texas and Dallas to kind of see

[1:19:44] what impact that has on housing

[1:19:45] production and so what I think

[1:19:47] we have in Oklahoma is a really

[1:19:48] good model for making sure that

[1:19:50] people are at the table making

[1:19:52] sure that we are taking modest

[1:19:53] steps forward that unlock

[1:19:55] housing typologies while also

[1:19:56] keeping people safe and making

[1:19:57] sure that everybody's on the

[1:19:58] same page on how to actually

[1:20:00] implement those reforms. so

[1:20:02] I'll talk about a couple of them

[1:20:03] that came up in theffordable

[1:20:04] housing and consolidated

[1:20:05] dwelling technical codeviewittee

[1:20:06] the

[1:20:11] d c T c c da named it not me

[1:20:14] but but one of them was

[1:20:16] single stair reform there was

[1:20:18] a bill at the legislature last

[1:20:20] year carried by Senator

[1:20:20] Schreiber or I'm

[1:20:22] sorrypresentative Schreiber

[1:20:24] that kind of led us down this

[1:20:26] track and and we were able to

[1:20:28] take that and work it through

[1:20:30] this process in a way that we're

[1:20:31] we were able to come out with a

[1:20:34] pretty well adjusted version

[1:20:35] that models after2024 code

[1:20:38] o plexes under residential

[1:20:40] code which I'll talk about more

[1:20:42] here in a second and then

[1:20:45] thinking about the the

[1:20:46] opportunities of 13D fire

[1:20:48] suppression systems in medium

[1:20:50] sized buildings so in single

[1:20:52] stier form I won't spend too

[1:20:53] long here because it's an

[1:20:56] incredibly technical document

[1:20:57] but it it really is modeled

[1:20:57] after a

[1:21:00] reform proposed at the national

[1:21:03] level E2424 if anybody wants

[1:21:07] to look it up that takes

[1:21:09] an opportunity of a building

[1:21:10] type that we used to build a lot

[1:21:12] of in the state of Oklahoma and

[1:21:13] across the country and kind of

[1:21:16] relegalizes that into in field

[1:21:19] development and then secondly

[1:21:21] another code proposal change

[1:21:22] which was the number4 code

[1:21:26] proposal change allowed for 23

[1:21:27] and4am 3 and four unit dwellings

[1:21:27] to

[1:21:30] be built under residential code.

[1:21:32] So there's two primary building

[1:21:33] codes in the state of Oklahoma

[1:21:34] and David can tell you more

[1:21:36] about them than I can but

[1:21:38] commercial code adds a

[1:21:40] significant number of

[1:21:42] inspection requirements there's

[1:21:44] additional requirements related

[1:21:45] to construction and fire

[1:21:48] suppression and I mean it

[1:21:50] governs everything from now you

[1:21:51] know5 unit buildings up to

[1:21:52] airports and large commercial

[1:21:54] buildings and so really what

[1:21:56] this code is designed to do is

[1:21:57] to say you know these small 3

[1:21:57] and4 plex buildings

[1:22:00] that you see kind of built into

[1:22:02] neighborhoods especially in

[1:22:04] urban areas we believe that we

[1:22:05] can treat those in a similar way

[1:22:06] that we treat a single family

[1:22:08] dwelling with a lot of the same

[1:22:10] building characteristics so

[1:22:12] that's that's kind of what this

[1:22:13] particular code change proposal

[1:22:13] gets to

[1:22:16] the other thing that I will

[1:22:17] mention is that we're going to

[1:22:18] talk about the road to housing

[1:22:19] actct here in a second. but

[1:22:20] there are elements of the road

[1:22:22] to housing actct that also push

[1:22:24] states and governing bodies

[1:22:26] towards some of these very same

[1:22:28] building code change proposals

[1:22:30] so where this putsokklahoma

[1:22:31] right now is that the fortunate

[1:22:34] edge of being ahead of some

[1:22:35] federal policy which we don't

[1:22:36] always get to claim but that's

[1:22:39] exciting so we we get to

[1:22:41] kind of lead some of the the

[1:22:42] work nationally on on this

[1:22:43] particular

[1:22:44] issue area

[1:22:46] and I'll I'll let David

[1:22:48] confirm this particular timeline

[1:22:51] but it's helpful for me to

[1:22:52] understand like yes building

[1:22:54] code change is possible and and

[1:22:56] even preferred through the

[1:22:58] existing systems but it is not a

[1:23:00] slow process and it is

[1:23:04] methodical by by nature so we as

[1:23:05] David mentioned recommended the

[1:23:07] technical committee in May that

[1:23:10] committee was convened in august

[1:23:12] we spent the entire process of

[1:23:13] that I'm sorry it was

[1:23:18] august of25 and then the

[1:23:20] technical committee finalized

[1:23:22] their recommendations in May of

[1:23:23] this year recommended to the

[1:23:24] full commission in August of

[1:23:26] this year they are now in a rule

[1:23:28] drafting process the commission

[1:23:30] will approve those final rules

[1:23:31] before sending them to the

[1:23:32] legislature for review in the

[1:23:34] next session and then those

[1:23:36] building codes go into effect

[1:23:38] likely in fall of2027 if

[1:23:38] everything moves forward on

[1:23:40] schedule. so just so

[1:23:42] everybody is aware of kind of

[1:23:43] the timeline associated with

[1:23:43] that

[1:23:45] David anything else to add on on

[1:23:45] building code?

[1:23:50] no other than on that timeline

[1:23:53] the commission may wish to

[1:23:54] put them in with emergency so

[1:23:56] they would actually affect the24

[1:23:58] adoption as well and then the

[1:24:00] twentyevens as you mentioned

[1:24:02] the27 codes on the national

[1:24:04] codes when they come out the

[1:24:07] changes we did make do model

[1:24:09] those and so they'll just become

[1:24:09] part of that adoption as well.

[1:24:14] that goes live when what did you

[1:24:15] say

[1:24:16] 227 when that's adopted

[1:24:20] sorry the updated

[1:24:22] you repeat what you just said

[1:24:24] sorry you gave a date

[1:24:28] and it the27 codes are coming

[1:24:29] out now so we're gonna start

[1:24:32] reviewing those and what we just

[1:24:33] adopted through the committee

[1:24:34] that Tyler was just talking

[1:24:38] about those are completed and go

[1:24:40] into the rules making process

[1:24:41] but we will probably put them in

[1:24:44] as emergencies because we

[1:24:46] want them to go ahead and be in

[1:24:48] effect being that the

[1:24:50] twenty7h's going to change those

[1:24:51] anyway as well

[1:24:57] fantastic changing directions

[1:25:00] here a little bit is moving

[1:25:01] to the21st century road to

[1:25:02] housing actct so this was a bill

[1:25:05] that was passed a bipartisan

[1:25:08] bill passed by Congress and

[1:25:10] enacted into law in July of this

[1:25:11] year

[1:25:14] it has59 provisions in the act

[1:25:16] and fortunately for everyone in

[1:25:17] this room I will not go through

[1:25:19] all59 provisions of the w1st

[1:25:20] century roadad to Housing Act

[1:25:22] today but I would like to

[1:25:24] highlight just a couple of

[1:25:25] things generally speaking that

[1:25:27] that the state of Oklahoma can

[1:25:28] do to get ready to respond to

[1:25:30] some of the opportunities

[1:25:31] created by the road to Housing

[1:25:33] Act I'd also like to draw

[1:25:34] attention to the QR code on our

[1:25:36] presentation on the Housing

[1:25:38] forward website there is a road

[1:25:40] to housing explorer that we have

[1:25:41] that's available for people

[1:25:41] where you can

[1:25:44] search the act by specific

[1:25:46] affinity like veterans housing

[1:25:50] or rural housing or if you're a

[1:25:51] particular policymaker or

[1:25:52] decision maker for a particular

[1:25:54] group like a legislator or a

[1:25:56] tribal leader you can also sort

[1:25:58] by action needed in some of

[1:25:59] those various decision making

[1:25:59] bodies

[1:26:04] so just to start off I I think

[1:26:06] one of the things that might be

[1:26:08] a gap here in Oklahoma that I

[1:26:09] think would help us respond to

[1:26:11] this federal legislation is some

[1:26:13] type of statewide housing plan

[1:26:14] or a standing housing task force

[1:26:16] that doesn't yet exist many of

[1:26:18] the states that I believe will

[1:26:20] be able to respond most

[1:26:21] effectively to some of the pilot

[1:26:22] programs created by the roadad

[1:26:24] to Housing Act have already

[1:26:26] created statewide housing plans

[1:26:27] and those are already in place

[1:26:28] and then they have some type of

[1:26:29] convened body

[1:26:33] that can then create strategy on

[1:26:34] behalf of the state to pursue

[1:26:36] some of these pilot programs and

[1:26:37] kind of get all the programs

[1:26:39] lined up in a way that they can

[1:26:41] take advantage of this new these

[1:26:44] new program opportunities so

[1:26:45] really that that could be an ask

[1:26:46] of the legislature it could be

[1:26:48] an ask of incoming governor's

[1:26:51] office but some type of

[1:26:53] coordinated effort to respond to

[1:26:55] the new programs created in this

[1:26:57] piece of legislation could be

[1:26:58] really helpful for the state of

[1:26:59] Oklahoma particularly many of

[1:26:59] the

[1:27:02] areas where there's rural

[1:27:03] communities that might not be

[1:27:04] able to take advantage of some

[1:27:05] of the acts because of their

[1:27:06] lack of existing or or permanent

[1:27:07] staff

[1:27:11] one of the particular areas

[1:27:12] one of the grant programs that

[1:27:14] this particular act stands up is

[1:27:17] for preapproved housing plans

[1:27:18] so I'll just mention briefly

[1:27:19] that there are plenty of

[1:27:20] municipalities in the state of

[1:27:22] Oklahoma that already have

[1:27:23] rolled out preapproved housing

[1:27:24] plans the most recent one is

[1:27:26] the city of Tulsa in the Tetown

[1:27:28] home catalog but preceding that

[1:27:30] were the city of Guthrie

[1:27:32] Danassik's in the room so need

[1:27:33] to give him a shout out on

[1:27:34] creating his own preapproved

[1:27:36] housing plan for the city of

[1:27:37] Guthrie city of Claremore

[1:27:40] also rolled out a preapproved

[1:27:40] housing plan there may be others

[1:27:42] that I don't know of but I feel

[1:27:44] like this is seeing gradual

[1:27:45] adoption across the state

[1:27:48] the federal grants associated

[1:27:50] with the road to housing actct

[1:27:54] provide opportunities to create

[1:27:56] plans set libraries so that

[1:27:57] smaller municipalities can take

[1:27:58] advantage of that

[1:28:01] and so just to back up briefly a

[1:28:03] preapproved housing plan can

[1:28:04] often save on housing

[1:28:06] construction to the tune of5

[1:28:08] to10,000 dollars because you're

[1:28:09] not going out and having an

[1:28:10] architect design a plan set for

[1:28:12] you you can take that off the

[1:28:13] shelf with the municipality

[1:28:14] there's a lot more

[1:28:16] predictability when it comes to

[1:28:18] to housing delivery because

[1:28:18] that's a plan set that's already

[1:28:20] been vetted by the local

[1:28:21] municipality they know that it

[1:28:22] fits within their zoning and

[1:28:24] building code and so it it

[1:28:26] delivers housing units of of

[1:28:27] different housing typologies

[1:28:28] much faster to our

[1:28:29] communities.

[1:28:32] and then the the last thing that

[1:28:33] I'll mention before I turn it

[1:28:35] over to some of our other

[1:28:36] presenters

[1:28:37] are

[1:28:40] there is a new federal

[1:28:42] regulation associated with the

[1:28:43] road to housing actct that

[1:28:46] requires block grant recipients

[1:28:48] in the state to create and

[1:28:49] publish searchable inventories

[1:28:50] of undeveloped land that they

[1:28:54] own which is great it is great

[1:28:56] to know what is available to be

[1:28:58] developed on especially if it's

[1:28:59] applicable for housing and

[1:29:00] housing development. there's an

[1:29:02] opportunity here that instead of

[1:29:04] all of these different block

[1:29:05] grant recipients creating their

[1:29:07] own databases and having those

[1:29:08] kind of be disparate across

[1:29:12] the state for a single statewide

[1:29:14] inventory to happen so that

[1:29:15] that's searchable at the state

[1:29:17] level which I think is a much

[1:29:19] more usable inventory it kind of

[1:29:21] turns this federal regulation

[1:29:22] into something that's actually a

[1:29:24] tool that could be utilized at

[1:29:26] the state level with just a

[1:29:28] little bit of coordination so

[1:29:29] that's another another kind of

[1:29:30] unique element of this

[1:29:32] particular act that I think

[1:29:33] Oklahoma could take advantage of

[1:29:33] pretty pretty quickly

[1:29:36] so with that I'm gonna turn

[1:29:38] it over to Darrell beavers

[1:29:39] with the Oklahoma Housing

[1:29:39] finance Agency.

[1:29:42] good morning I'm the housing

[1:29:49] ' m the housing development

[1:29:54] director at OHFA and I want

[1:29:56] to mention what Tyler was

[1:29:56] talking about about the

[1:29:58] statewide housing plan you know

[1:30:00] we have a statewide housing

[1:30:03] needs assessment that resides

[1:30:05] on our website we did this

[1:30:07] with the help from the OU

[1:30:10] College of architecture and it's

[1:30:12] being it's being updated

[1:30:14] right now but it's the first

[1:30:16] step in trying to identify

[1:30:20] how much housing is needed the

[1:30:22] types and where the second

[1:30:24] step is what Tyler was referring

[1:30:26] to is we need to have a plan

[1:30:27] then on how are we going how are

[1:30:29] we going to solve these problems

[1:30:32] so the twenty1st century

[1:30:33] road tohousing actct and road

[1:30:34] actually stands for something it

[1:30:36] stands for renewing opportunity

[1:30:38] in the American dream it

[1:30:41] makes dozens of worthwhile

[1:30:42] reforms to federal programs and

[1:30:44] establishes a number of new

[1:30:46] policies that will help lower

[1:30:47] housing costs and increase

[1:30:47] housing production

[1:30:52] and opportunities the

[1:30:52] Oklahoma housing finance

[1:30:56] AgencyOFfa interacts with

[1:30:56] most of the programs and

[1:30:58] policies that are they're

[1:31:00] initiated by this bill and so we

[1:31:02] look forward to working with

[1:31:04] federal agencies on the critical

[1:31:06] next steps to turn a major

[1:31:08] policy accomplishment in

[1:31:10] Washington Dc into tangible

[1:31:11] results in Oklahoma.

[1:31:14] the act reforms and streamlines

[1:31:16] numerous US Department of

[1:31:17] Housing and Urban Development

[1:31:20] and US Department of agriculture

[1:31:22] affordable housing programs

[1:31:24] and policies it also allows

[1:31:26] banks to increase equity

[1:31:27] investments in tax credit

[1:31:28] developments and other public

[1:31:31] priorities it authorizes new

[1:31:32] pilot programs and expands and

[1:31:33] updates others

[1:31:36] provides incentives for state

[1:31:37] and local zoning and land use

[1:31:37] reforms

[1:31:42] authorizes a HUDcdBgbased

[1:31:43] disaster recovery program for

[1:31:43] three years

[1:31:46] and directs federal agencies to

[1:31:48] undertake new research and

[1:31:50] establish best practices in an

[1:31:52] effort to expand the supply and

[1:31:53] affordability of affordable

[1:31:54] housing

[1:31:56] so

[1:31:58] going to the slides now

[1:32:02] what OHFA supports before

[1:32:02] discussing the roadad actct I

[1:32:04] think it it's important to

[1:32:06] understand OFfa's role in

[1:32:09] housing production we support

[1:32:10] housing through a number of

[1:32:12] financing tools including the

[1:32:14] home investment partnership

[1:32:16] program the national Housing

[1:32:17] Trust Fund the low income

[1:32:19] housing tax credit bond

[1:32:21] financing and several state

[1:32:22] funded initiatives the

[1:32:24] provisions we'll discuss today

[1:32:25] are the portions of the act

[1:32:26] that appear most relevant to

[1:32:28] those programs that we already

[1:32:30] administer collectively they

[1:32:32] provide new tools to expand

[1:32:34] housing production preserve

[1:32:36] existing housing support home

[1:32:38] ownership and improve the

[1:32:38] administration of federal

[1:32:39] housing programs

[1:32:41] so

[1:32:42] why

[1:32:48] reduction matters why housing

[1:32:50] production matters Oklahoma's

[1:32:51] housing challenges ultimately a

[1:32:51] housing supply challenge

[1:32:54] communities across the state

[1:32:56] need additional rental housing

[1:32:59] workforce housing homeownership

[1:33:01] opportunities senior housing and

[1:33:03] housing in rural areas the

[1:33:04] roadad actct seeks to address

[1:33:06] some of those challenges by

[1:33:06] reducing barriers to development

[1:33:10] providing more flexibility

[1:33:12] within existing programs and

[1:33:14] authorizing several new funding

[1:33:15] opportunities many of these

[1:33:17] reforms focus on helping

[1:33:18] existing housing programs work

[1:33:19] more effectively

[1:33:28] section501 has to do with

[1:33:28] homeme reauthorization and

[1:33:29] reform

[1:33:32] the homeme reauthorization

[1:33:34] and reform Act represents the

[1:33:36] most significant update to the

[1:33:37] home program in more than three

[1:33:37] decades

[1:33:40] the reforms are intended to make

[1:33:42] the program more flexible reduce

[1:33:44] administrative burdens expand

[1:33:46] home ownership opportunities and

[1:33:47] support additional housing

[1:33:48] production

[1:33:51] for Oklahoma some of the most

[1:33:52] significant changes include

[1:33:53] expanding homeownership

[1:33:56] eligibility from 80% to100% of

[1:33:59] area median income and

[1:34:01] increasing allowable home value

[1:34:04] limits from 95% to110% of

[1:34:05] average area purchase price

[1:34:10] the act also s allow state

[1:34:12] administrators like OFfa to

[1:34:14] utilize national inspection

[1:34:16] standards and creates additional

[1:34:18] infrastructure flexibility for

[1:34:20] certain developments

[1:34:22] collectively these changes may

[1:34:24] improve program efficiency

[1:34:26] increase partition participation

[1:34:28] by developers and nonprofit

[1:34:30] partners and create new

[1:34:32] opportunities to address housing

[1:34:34] needs across both rural and

[1:34:35] urban Oklahoma

[1:34:42] the housing counseling reform

[1:34:44] portion of the act is that

[1:34:46] section 10 1 the counseling

[1:34:48] reforms are intended to improve

[1:34:50] both equal and accountability of

[1:34:51] HUD certified housing

[1:34:54] counseling services the act

[1:34:56] provides HUD with additional

[1:34:57] oversight authority while also

[1:35:00] expanding foreclosure mitigation

[1:35:02] counseling opportunities for

[1:35:04] certain FHA USDA and VA

[1:35:06] borrowers for Oklahoma the

[1:35:08] primary opportunity will be

[1:35:09] improving counseling quality

[1:35:12] while continuing to maintain

[1:35:12] services

[1:35:16] access to services this is

[1:35:16] particularly important in rural

[1:35:18] areas where counseling capacity

[1:35:19] remains limited

[1:35:22] as these reforms are implemented

[1:35:24] there may be opportunities to

[1:35:25] strengthen partnerships and

[1:35:26] expand counselor capacity

[1:35:27] statewide

[1:35:33] emerging housing opportunities

[1:35:36] the act also authorizes several

[1:35:38] pilot programs that may create

[1:35:39] future opportunities for

[1:35:40] Oklahoma

[1:35:42] while these programs are

[1:35:45] authorized in statute most still

[1:35:46] require congressional

[1:35:48] appropriations before funding

[1:35:50] becomes available the three that

[1:35:52] appear most relevant from OHFA's

[1:35:56] perspective are the reid program

[1:35:57] the whole homeme repair pilot

[1:36:00] and the affordable housing

[1:36:02] planning and implementation

[1:36:03] grant program and I'll touch

[1:36:04] briefly briefly on those

[1:36:11] the reid program is a

[1:36:14] section210 reid stands for

[1:36:16] revitalizing emmpty structures

[1:36:17] into desirable environments

[1:36:20] the reid program creates a

[1:36:22] competitive funding opportunity

[1:36:23] within home to support the

[1:36:24] conversion of vacant and

[1:36:26] underutilized buildings into

[1:36:28] housing manyy Oklahoma

[1:36:28] communities have buildings that

[1:36:30] contribute to blight and sit

[1:36:32] unused despite having

[1:36:35] redevelopment potential examples

[1:36:37] could include they can schools

[1:36:39] former hospitals office

[1:36:40] buildings commercial properties

[1:36:43] or government facilities this

[1:36:44] program seeks to address housing

[1:36:46] shortages and community

[1:36:47] revitalization at the same time.

[1:36:50] it's important to note that

[1:36:52] rezid does not currently provide

[1:36:53] new funding to Oklahoma

[1:36:55] but instead establishes a

[1:36:56] competitive funding opportunity

[1:36:58] that is still subject to future

[1:37:00] appropriations andU

[1:37:01] implementation

[1:37:06] the whole home repair pilot

[1:37:10] that is at section202

[1:37:11] while much of the housing

[1:37:12] conversation focuses on new

[1:37:13] construction

[1:37:15] preserving existing housing is

[1:37:18] equally important. Many Oklahoma

[1:37:19] communities particularly rural

[1:37:20] communities face challenges

[1:37:22] associated with aging housing

[1:37:23] stock

[1:37:25] the whole home repair pilot

[1:37:26] would create a competitive

[1:37:28] funding opportunity for

[1:37:30] rehabilitation activities such

[1:37:32] as accessibility improvements

[1:37:34] weatherization health and safety

[1:37:36] repairs and major building

[1:37:37] system repairs

[1:37:41] by preserving existing homes

[1:37:42] communities may be able to

[1:37:44] maintain the housing

[1:37:46] affordability and stability at a

[1:37:47] lower cost than developing new

[1:37:47] housing

[1:37:50] if funded this could become

[1:37:51] another useful tool for

[1:37:54] preserving naturally occurring

[1:37:55] affordable housing across the

[1:37:55] state

[1:37:59] f fo rd able housing planning

[1:38:01] and implementation grants can be

[1:38:02] found in section207

[1:38:06] manyy communities know they need

[1:38:08] more housing but lack the

[1:38:10] planning resources necessary to

[1:38:12] identify needs prioritize

[1:38:14] projects and prepare for future

[1:38:15] development opportunities

[1:38:18] this program focuses on planning

[1:38:19] and development readiness rather

[1:38:20] than housing construction

[1:38:23] funds could be used for housing

[1:38:26] needs assessments the one that

[1:38:27] we have that I just mentioned

[1:38:30] market studies workforce housing

[1:38:32] planning and regional housing

[1:38:34] strategies for many Oklahoma

[1:38:36] communities particularly smaller

[1:38:38] communities planning capacity is

[1:38:39] often the first barrier to

[1:38:39] housing development

[1:38:42] while this program would not

[1:38:44] directly build housing it could

[1:38:46] help communities better position

[1:38:48] themselves for future housing

[1:38:49] investments and development

[1:38:49] opportunities.

[1:38:54] increasing housing in

[1:38:56] opportunity zones the road act

[1:38:58] allows HUd to provide additional

[1:39:00] scoring preference for certain

[1:39:01] competitive housing grants

[1:39:03] located in or servingun zones

[1:39:06] Oklahoma currently has

[1:39:10] approximately 117 opportunity

[1:39:12] zones located across both urban

[1:39:14] and rural communities many of

[1:39:16] these areas overlap with

[1:39:18] communities experiencing housing

[1:39:20] shortages shortages development

[1:39:22] needs and infrastructure

[1:39:24] challenges it's important to

[1:39:25] note that opportun zones do not

[1:39:28] create a new funding source but

[1:39:30] they may improve Oklahoma's

[1:39:31] competitiveness for future

[1:39:31] federal housing grants

[1:39:35] as these opportunities develop

[1:39:36] OhFA may be able to

[1:39:39] strategically align housing

[1:39:40] investments and development

[1:39:42] activity withinportunity zone

[1:39:44] communities to maximize access

[1:39:45] to future federal resources

[1:39:50] and now we get to the

[1:39:54] implementation hurdles while

[1:39:55] the roadde act creates several

[1:39:56] promising opportunities many of

[1:39:58] its provisions are not yet

[1:40:00] operational a number of the

[1:40:02] reforms require HUD rulemaking

[1:40:04] and implementation guidance

[1:40:06] before states can begin

[1:40:07] utilizing new program

[1:40:07] flexibilities

[1:40:10] in addition several of the pilot

[1:40:12] programs discussed today are

[1:40:14] authorized but not currently

[1:40:16] funded and require future

[1:40:18] congressional appropriations

[1:40:18] before grants can be awarded

[1:40:23] for O OhA our focus will be on

[1:40:24] monitoring federal

[1:40:26] implementation evaluating

[1:40:28] opportunities for Oklahoma and

[1:40:30] preparing to take advantage of

[1:40:31] these new tools as they become

[1:40:31] available

[1:40:34] ultimately many of the benefits

[1:40:36] of the act will depend on future

[1:40:38] HUD action and congressional

[1:40:39] funding decisions

[1:40:43] and that's the end of my

[1:40:43] presentation

[1:40:48] he

[1:40:53] thank you very much for inviting

[1:40:57] me to present regarding the

[1:40:58] roadad actct. My name's Deana

[1:41:00] Fields and I'm the executive

[1:41:02] director of the manufactured

[1:41:04] housing association of Oklahoma

[1:41:08] since 1994 so I have seen a

[1:41:10] tremendous change with this

[1:41:12] industry since 94 I mean it's

[1:41:15] amazing manufactured housing is

[1:41:16] the only type of housing

[1:41:18] constructed to a federal

[1:41:19] residential building

[1:41:22] code which is regulated by HUD.

[1:41:24] so unfortunately we're not under

[1:41:25] the uniform building code

[1:41:30] according to a 2020 head report

[1:41:32] factorybuild housing has

[1:41:34] undergone many physical changes

[1:41:36] that have made it more similar

[1:41:37] to and in many ways

[1:41:39] indistinguishable from

[1:41:40] conventional site build

[1:41:43] housinguality improvements in

[1:41:44] construction and installation

[1:41:46] practices have increased the

[1:41:48] durability so that the life

[1:41:50] expectancy of the manufactured

[1:41:52] home or a factory built housing

[1:41:54] is comparable to sitebuilt or on

[1:41:55] site housing

[1:42:00] so how does the21st century

[1:42:02] roadad Act housing actct affects

[1:42:03] the manufactured housing

[1:42:03] industry.

[1:42:08] Basically

[1:42:12] it's expanding what can be built

[1:42:13] under the HUD code.

[1:42:17] this is the first time since the

[1:42:20] enacted of HU which is now

[1:42:22] they're celebrating their 50th

[1:42:24] year anniversary is to allow the

[1:42:26] manufactured home to be built

[1:42:28] with or without a permanent

[1:42:29] chassis

[1:42:33] that's tremendous to us the

[1:42:36] reason we're doing that is to

[1:42:38] allow the innovation of our

[1:42:39] architectural to our our

[1:42:40] factories to allow twos story

[1:42:44] modules on infill lots so it'll

[1:42:46] be architecturally compatible

[1:42:46] with the existing housing

[1:42:51] zoning and land use progress

[1:42:53] offers tools to address local

[1:42:55] barriers that restrict the

[1:42:57] placement of manufactured homes

[1:43:01] that's a big obstacle for us and

[1:43:02] we'll get through it later.

[1:43:05] preserving regulatory efficiency

[1:43:08] clarifies HU's authority over a

[1:43:09] manufactured home construction

[1:43:12] safety and energy standards

[1:43:14] keeping the process efficient

[1:43:16] and avoiding conflicted

[1:43:17] standards

[1:43:21] expanding or expanding financing

[1:43:23] opportunities which advances

[1:43:26] improvements to FHAitle one for

[1:43:28] homeme only financing somebody

[1:43:29] owns their land they do not want

[1:43:31] to do you know land in lieu they

[1:43:33] just want to you know the home

[1:43:34] by itself this would help

[1:43:39] U D is also mandating that all

[1:43:42] states define the definitions of

[1:43:44] a manufactured home with the

[1:43:45] federal definition

[1:43:50] Oklahoma is a step ahead of this

[1:43:51] curve since we changed our

[1:43:53] definition definitions over 10

[1:43:56] years ago under

[1:43:58] Title47section581 the used motor

[1:44:00] vehicles dismant or manufactured

[1:44:01] housing commission this

[1:44:02] commission licenses our

[1:44:04] manufacturers our retailers, our

[1:44:06] salespeople, our installers to

[1:44:10] prohibit the conflict or this is

[1:44:11] their fault this is their fault

[1:44:13] you know and we have a dispute

[1:44:15] resolution program within this

[1:44:15] commission that comp

[1:44:18] li es with HUDlus we have our

[1:44:20] installation program that is a

[1:44:22] certified through HUD in this

[1:44:23] commission

[1:44:26] manufacturing and this is the

[1:44:29] definition that we put in our

[1:44:34] title47 Baically it mirrors

[1:44:36] the site and the rules

[1:44:38] promulgated thereof of of the

[1:44:40] federal construction

[1:44:40] safetyanders actct

[1:44:44] basically that's what it says

[1:44:47] any home built after 1974 is

[1:44:47] considered a manufactured home

[1:44:52] a mobile home which we also put

[1:44:54] in state definition and it's

[1:44:56] also in the federal mobile home

[1:44:58] means a residential dwelling

[1:45:00] fabricated in or off site

[1:45:02] manufacturing facility designed

[1:45:04] to be a permanent residence

[1:45:06] which is still transportable

[1:45:08] that was built prior to enacting

[1:45:09] of the national manufactured

[1:45:12] housing Construction Act those

[1:45:13] are your typical what you think

[1:45:13] of your mobile homes and your

[1:45:14] trailers

[1:45:18] However, we do have titles in

[1:45:21] state law that have outdated

[1:45:21] definitions

[1:45:25] what I'm here today is to

[1:45:25] encourage

[1:45:30] a movement that we need to

[1:45:32] simply by just adding defining a

[1:45:34] manufactured homeb like we did

[1:45:38] in Title47, Title21, Title27 a

[1:45:42] anditle68 which is your tax

[1:45:43] commission

[1:45:48] what we need

[1:45:51] we extremely need and we're

[1:45:52] going to be looking forward to

[1:45:56] this is a definition entitle

[1:46:00] 11 cities and townwns

[1:46:02] several years ago the cities and

[1:46:06] towns enacted a law that on the

[1:46:08] aesthetics of a sitebu home

[1:46:10] cities and towns do not have

[1:46:12] that authority to do that. They

[1:46:14] also included manufactured homes

[1:46:15] however there is no

[1:46:20] definitions initle 11 of what we

[1:46:22] are so you have a lot of cities

[1:46:23] and towns that are totally

[1:46:25] confused about manufactured

[1:46:26] homes thinking that anything's

[1:46:28] built in a factory offsite is a

[1:46:30] manufactured home that is not

[1:46:32] the case. We also have modulars

[1:46:35] that are built to the uniform

[1:46:36] building code. a lot of my

[1:46:37] factories that build and

[1:46:39] manufactured home also built of

[1:46:42] modulars and they have to and

[1:46:44] they will have to comply with

[1:46:45] the new code which is what2024

[1:46:48] right the engineers' are

[1:46:48] already looking at it and said

[1:46:50] he we already do that so and in

[1:46:52] essence a lot of our homes are

[1:46:53] even built

[1:47:00] either near or higher to what

[1:47:01] our state building code is

[1:47:02] so

[1:47:06] anyway that's what the change

[1:47:09] the landscape of affordable

[1:47:10] and attainable housing in

[1:47:13] Oklahoma a lot of people don't

[1:47:16] realize that manufactured homes

[1:47:17] can be constructed more quickly

[1:47:20] than sidebuild homes at just 35

[1:47:24] to75% of the cost that's why you

[1:47:26] see a lot of people buying our

[1:47:30] industry. our factories buy

[1:47:31] bundles

[1:47:35] of of products they the only

[1:47:38] thing they ran out of during the

[1:47:40] COVID era was the refrigerators

[1:47:42] and refrigerators did I say that

[1:47:45] refrigerators and microwaves

[1:47:45] and stoves

[1:47:49] they had to go to lowewe's

[1:47:50] naturally instead of the big

[1:47:53] warehouses but we overcame that

[1:47:56] our we have actually40 factories

[1:47:58] that ship homes into Oklahoma

[1:48:00] from all over the country.

[1:48:02] they have to meet the federal

[1:48:05] building codes for our area like

[1:48:07] in Oklahoma we are a thermal

[1:48:10] zone2 for energy standard where

[1:48:14] Texas is a zone one. we have of

[1:48:16] course the wind standards the

[1:48:17] roost standards and

[1:48:19] it's pretty tough if anybody

[1:48:21] ever wants to get into the dive

[1:48:23] of what our coves codes are I'd

[1:48:25] be more than happy to share. We

[1:48:26] also have two plants in

[1:48:28] Oklahoma. We have a plant in

[1:48:29] medill

[1:48:33] new vision and we have a plant

[1:48:35] and Duran Duncan which is was

[1:48:36] a solitaire but now it's owned

[1:48:37] byavco.

[1:48:42] I have three major big factories

[1:48:44] that were very instrumental in

[1:48:46] this homeme act regarding the

[1:48:48] manufactured housing provisions

[1:48:50] that's your avcos your champions

[1:48:52] and your laytons. they're also

[1:48:54] right now showing homes or

[1:48:56] showcased at our houses on the

[1:49:00] Washington mall for the birthday

[1:49:03] of or the anniversary of HUD So

[1:49:06] Secretary Turner's totally

[1:49:07] excited and about our industry

[1:49:08] because

[1:49:10] he's seen and he's walked

[1:49:12] through our homes and he's seen

[1:49:16] how we can provide affordable

[1:49:20] attainable housing for everybody

[1:49:22] and especially for Oklahoma. So

[1:49:24] thank you so much and it's

[1:49:25] back to you

[1:49:30] thank you deanna

[1:49:34] a little bit of a a shift here

[1:49:35] away from the road to housing

[1:49:38] actct and and into some emerging

[1:49:39] research that that housing

[1:49:41] forward was working with urban

[1:49:43] institute on specifically

[1:49:44] around opportunities for faith

[1:49:46] based housing and development in

[1:49:47] Oklahoma

[1:49:48] on the other side of of the

[1:49:50] building this morning they were

[1:49:54] talking about opportunities to

[1:49:56] inject starter homes back

[1:49:57] into our communities and and the

[1:49:58] importance of that and the

[1:50:00] importance of creating stair

[1:50:01] steps

[1:50:03] into homeownership across the

[1:50:06] state of Oklahoma and so as

[1:50:07] you've as you as you've seen in

[1:50:09] the conversation today it is not

[1:50:11] one particular policy issue that

[1:50:12] moves us forward on housing

[1:50:15] policy it is a plethora of

[1:50:16] policy issues that many people

[1:50:17] are passionate about and we have

[1:50:19] to move them all forward kind of

[1:50:20] at the same time which is a

[1:50:22] little bit of conducting a

[1:50:23] symphony but it's

[1:50:26] occasionally in tune and I

[1:50:27] feel like we're hitting this

[1:50:28] moment in Oklahoma where there's

[1:50:30] a lot of these housing policy

[1:50:30] issues that are ripe and moving

[1:50:33] forward at the same time which

[1:50:34] creates an opportunity for great

[1:50:36] progress one of the areas that

[1:50:38] we have to look at when we think

[1:50:39] about housing and housing

[1:50:40] affordability is the land

[1:50:41] available for housing

[1:50:41] development.

[1:50:44] many of our urban areas are

[1:50:46] getting built out we're

[1:50:48] having to look at where our

[1:50:50] infill lots that are available

[1:50:50] and ready for housing

[1:50:52] development many of the

[1:50:54] spaces that you see driving

[1:50:55] around town that are vacant may

[1:50:56] not be ripe for housing

[1:50:56] development because they could

[1:50:58] be in a floodplain or they could

[1:50:59] not be served by utilities

[1:51:02] there's a lot of issues but one

[1:51:03] of the things that we look at

[1:51:04] when we drive around cities and

[1:51:06] towns in Oklahoma is that we

[1:51:08] have a lot of faith communities

[1:51:09] and those faith communities

[1:51:10] are often thriving they're often

[1:51:14] really vibrant but they often

[1:51:16] are also situated on property

[1:51:18] that's much larger than the

[1:51:20] building itself often many acres

[1:51:22] and and especially when you get

[1:51:24] out into rural communities so we

[1:51:25] partnered with theurrban

[1:51:26] institute to look at some

[1:51:28] legislation that had happened in

[1:51:29] other states across the

[1:51:30] countryvirginia state of

[1:51:34] Washington state of Florida

[1:51:36] have have passed legislation to

[1:51:38] kind of incentivize and create

[1:51:40] pathways for development of this

[1:51:41] underused and unlocked land

[1:51:41] associ

[1:51:44] ated with faith communities

[1:51:45] and we just had the very simple

[1:51:47] research question of what is the

[1:51:48] capacity for that in the state

[1:51:50] of Oklahoma is the juice worth

[1:51:52] the squeeze is there is there

[1:51:54] meaningful vacant land here that

[1:51:56] then we could deploy for the

[1:51:58] purpose of both breathing life

[1:52:00] into faith communities that

[1:52:02] then now have a new stream of

[1:52:04] revenue or potentially can find

[1:52:07] new way to serve or to bring

[1:52:08] into use under underdeveloped or

[1:52:10] under utilized land and start to

[1:52:11] chip away at some of the issues

[1:52:12] related

[1:52:13] to housing and housing need

[1:52:16] so here's just a couple

[1:52:16] pictures of of different

[1:52:19] examples of faith communities in

[1:52:21] states across the country that

[1:52:23] have kind of transitioned into

[1:52:24] some type of housing and housing

[1:52:25] development

[1:52:29] really what we saw from other

[1:52:30] housing policies or other

[1:52:32] policies across the country that

[1:52:33] we think are particularly

[1:52:34] applicable here

[1:52:37] are this this deep

[1:52:39] collaboration between the state

[1:52:42] and municipalities zoning is

[1:52:43] inherently a municipal decision

[1:52:46] but there are oftentimes

[1:52:48] opportunities for the state to

[1:52:50] encourage municipalities to find

[1:52:52] ways to unlock housing for the

[1:52:53] benefit of both the

[1:52:54] municipalities themselves and

[1:52:55] the state and their economic

[1:52:56] strategy.

[1:52:58] so I'm not going to talk

[1:52:59] through all of these I want to

[1:53:02] be cognizant of our time but

[1:53:04] what we found was there were a

[1:53:06] lot of faithowned properties

[1:53:08] with a lot of vacant land in the

[1:53:10] state of Oklahoma and just

[1:53:11] looking at Tulsa and Oklahoma

[1:53:14] County we saw that many of

[1:53:15] those properties were completely

[1:53:16] vacant or had no structure at

[1:53:19] all on them so oftentimes

[1:53:20] that's land that was given to

[1:53:22] the church or a faith entity

[1:53:24] when a parishioner dies but

[1:53:25] oftentimes these properties are

[1:53:26] kind of left in

[1:53:29] a limbo and and oftentimes

[1:53:30] congregations don't really know

[1:53:31] what to do with them

[1:53:35] so we urban institute did a

[1:53:36] lot more math here than I'm

[1:53:38] comfortable with but they

[1:53:40] they found they found that just

[1:53:44] vacant land alone within a

[1:53:46] city of a population of50,000 or

[1:53:48] more there was six square

[1:53:50] miles of available land owned by

[1:53:52] faith entities in the state of

[1:53:54] Oklahoma and then you look

[1:53:56] further to the right on that

[1:53:58] graph and you can see kind of

[1:54:00] the breakdown of what zoning

[1:54:01] those those parcels are in

[1:54:04] either single family multifamily

[1:54:06] or just commercial industrial

[1:54:09] zoning in and of itself so

[1:54:12] really what we see with that is

[1:54:13] thinking about how to augment

[1:54:14] some of those zoning

[1:54:16] classifications based on

[1:54:17] ownership could create

[1:54:18] opportunities to really put a

[1:54:20] lot of homes on the board when

[1:54:21] we think about solving some of

[1:54:22] the affordability crisis and and

[1:54:26] some of the housing need across

[1:54:28] the state of Oklahoma and we saw

[1:54:29] that these faith owned parcels

[1:54:30] were were literally across the

[1:54:31] entire state

[1:54:34] so these are obviously

[1:54:35] preliminary results on this

[1:54:36] research we expect the full

[1:54:38] report to be delivered sometime

[1:54:40] later this year but we thought

[1:54:42] that it was relevant enough and

[1:54:44] and pertinent enough enough to

[1:54:45] this conversation to kind of

[1:54:46] bring it up here as well that

[1:54:47] you know there are a lot of

[1:54:48] levers we can pull at the both

[1:54:50] the i municipal and the state

[1:54:52] level to start to chip away at

[1:54:53] opportunity related to housing

[1:54:56] and housing production so with

[1:54:58] that quick preview I'll turn

[1:54:59] it back over toenenatoral here

[1:55:04] thank you so much for the

[1:55:05] presentation is there any

[1:55:06] there's any

[1:55:08] other committee members here

[1:55:13] just a but I want to thank the

[1:55:15] presenters today very

[1:55:16] valuable information

[1:55:18] sincerely appreciate all that

[1:55:20] you've brought to the

[1:55:22] committee and the chair and I

[1:55:23] wanna thank again the chair for

[1:55:26] hearing this interim study

[1:55:28] and say thanks for

[1:55:29] everybody for coming I

[1:55:29] appreciate it.

[1:55:34] with that we will take a break

[1:55:36] I actually do have some

[1:55:37] questions for you but they are

[1:55:39] going to be much longer than our

[1:55:41] time allows today we'll take a

[1:55:43] break. I will see if I can track

[1:55:44] down Senator Fricks see if we

[1:55:47] can get going a little early

[1:55:48] but for now take a few minutes

[1:55:49] go stretch your legs and we'll

[1:55:50] see you shortly.

[2:22:13] come on you

[2:23:32] Good afternoon everyone. we are

[2:23:36] back with Senator Fricks good to

[2:23:37] see you.

[2:23:40] thanks for coming over today and

[2:23:42] like I've mentioned before a

[2:23:43] few housekeeping things it's

[2:23:44] going to be super casual senator

[2:23:46] Frick I'm gonna let you kind

[2:23:48] of run the show you don't

[2:23:49] have to work through the chair

[2:23:50] and we'll just have a

[2:23:52] conversation and talk about our

[2:23:54] taxation issuesenter for

[2:23:56] explorers thank you so much

[2:23:57] thank you madam chair for

[2:23:58] hearing the study and for

[2:23:59] allowing us to have this today

[2:24:00] and want to thank everyone for

[2:24:02] taking time to to join the study

[2:24:04] all of our speakers and and

[2:24:05] others that helped us put this

[2:24:06] together. I prepared a few

[2:24:07] opening remarks and

[2:24:08] then after that would like to

[2:24:10] just really like work through

[2:24:11] the list of our incredible

[2:24:13] lineup of speakers but today

[2:24:14] we're taking a closer look at

[2:24:16] how affordable housing

[2:24:17] properties are valued for ad

[2:24:19] valorem tax purposes in Oklahoma

[2:24:20] and I requested this study

[2:24:22] because a technical question

[2:24:24] about property valuation has

[2:24:26] real consequences for

[2:24:27] communities local governments

[2:24:28] housing providers and definitely

[2:24:30] Oklahoma families. want to first

[2:24:32] start with what the study is not

[2:24:34] about. it's not about removing

[2:24:35] affordable housing developments

[2:24:36] from the tax rules unless they

[2:24:37] qualify

[2:24:38] for separate exemption these

[2:24:40] properties pay advilom taxes.

[2:24:42] The question that we're trying

[2:24:44] to look at today is how to

[2:24:45] determine a fair taxable value

[2:24:46] when a property's rent and

[2:24:48] income are legally restricted

[2:24:50] the low income housing tax

[2:24:52] credit which is also known as

[2:24:55] LIHTc is really just a financing

[2:24:57] tool a developer uses an

[2:24:59] allocation of credits to attract

[2:25:00] private investment for the

[2:25:02] construction or rehabilitation

[2:25:04] of affordable housing in return

[2:25:06] the property must serve income

[2:25:07] eligible residents and operate

[2:25:08] under federally

[2:25:10] restricted rents the investor

[2:25:12] receives the tax benefit and the

[2:25:13] property receives capital that

[2:25:14] makes construction possible.

[2:25:16] Once operating the property

[2:25:18] cannot charge the same rents as

[2:25:19] an unrestricted market rate

[2:25:20] development and those

[2:25:22] restrictions affect its income

[2:25:23] and economic value

[2:25:26] Oklahoma courts have addressed

[2:25:28] this in the2011 case and

[2:25:29] Stillwater Housing associates

[2:25:31] vsusRose the Oklahoma Court of

[2:25:32] Civil Appeals held that low

[2:25:34] income housing tax credits are

[2:25:36] not income to the property the

[2:25:38] court also held that the credits

[2:25:40] belonged to the investor do not

[2:25:41] run with the land and our

[2:25:44] intangible property personal

[2:25:45] property exempt from advaloum

[2:25:46] taxation under the Oklahoma

[2:25:48] constitution. The concern is

[2:25:50] that this framework is not

[2:25:51] applied uniformly across the

[2:25:52] state. Many county assessors

[2:25:53] value these properties based on

[2:25:54] their

[2:25:56] restricted rents and actual

[2:25:58] operating income others may use

[2:26:00] the market rate assumptions or

[2:26:02] include the value of the tax

[2:26:03] credits and similar properties

[2:26:04] can therefore receive

[2:26:06] substantially different

[2:26:07] valuations depending on where

[2:26:08] they are located within our

[2:26:09] state

[2:26:12] earlier this year I was a senate

[2:26:14] author for House Bill4305. The

[2:26:16] bill proposed a restricted rent

[2:26:18] income approach using financial

[2:26:20] information from the property

[2:26:21] and capitalization rates derived

[2:26:23] from the comparable rent

[2:26:25] restricted properties it also

[2:26:26] provided that housing tax

[2:26:28] credits would not be counted as

[2:26:30] income attributable to the real

[2:26:32] estate. That proposal gives us a

[2:26:34] starting point but today's study

[2:26:35] should not be limited to just

[2:26:37] that bill. my goal today is to

[2:26:38] hear and to understand how these

[2:26:39] properties

[2:26:41] operate, how they are currently

[2:26:43] valued and whether Oklahoma law

[2:26:44] provides enough clarity for both

[2:26:45] taxpayers and assessors

[2:26:48] we also need to understand the

[2:26:50] broader economic context an

[2:26:52] economic impact study prepared

[2:26:53] by our Oklahoma department of

[2:26:54] Commerce examined developments

[2:26:55] supported by Oklahoma

[2:26:56] Stateffordable housing tax

[2:27:00] credits from2015 through2024. it

[2:27:02] does not address the specific

[2:27:04] valuation question before us but

[2:27:06] it's findings do show what is at

[2:27:09] stake approximately $39.3

[2:27:10] million in state housing tax

[2:27:13] credits supported71 developments

[2:27:15] at75 locations in40 communities

[2:27:15] and 33

[2:27:18] counties. Those projects

[2:27:22] produce5,762 housing units and

[2:27:24] more than752 million in direct

[2:27:26] construction activity the

[2:27:28] department of commerce estimated

[2:27:29] that nearly2 billion dollars in

[2:27:32] total economic activity from2017

[2:27:34] through2025 and that investment

[2:27:36] reaches well beyond our largest

[2:27:39] metropolitan areas.56 of the75

[2:27:40] developments were located

[2:27:42] outside of Oklahoma, Tulsa and

[2:27:44] Cleveland counties. These

[2:27:45] properties can replace aging

[2:27:45] housing stock meet meet

[2:27:48] workforce needs and help

[2:27:49] communities attract and retain

[2:27:51] employees they also contribute

[2:27:53] to our local tax base assuming

[2:27:54] property values remain level the

[2:27:56] commerce report estimated

[2:27:58] potential annual property tax

[2:28:00] generation of approximately 8.75

[2:28:02] million from the properties it

[2:28:03] studied

[2:28:06] but fairness must run both ways

[2:28:08] schools counties and other local

[2:28:10] services depend on a stable

[2:28:12] property tax base assessors need

[2:28:13] reliable information and

[2:28:15] workable standards property

[2:28:17] owners need predictability and

[2:28:18] consistency with the application

[2:28:21] of the law. A fair system should

[2:28:22] recognize both the taxable real

[2:28:24] estate and legal restrictions

[2:28:26] that shape its income and value

[2:28:27] as we hear from today's

[2:28:28] presenters I hope we will focus

[2:28:30] on four big questions. First,

[2:28:32] what valuation methods are being

[2:28:33] used across Oklaho

[2:28:35] ma and how much do they vary?

[2:28:38] Second, how should restricted

[2:28:39] rents operating expenses

[2:28:41] occupancy during lease up and

[2:28:42] appropriate capitalization rates

[2:28:44] be reflected.hird, what

[2:28:46] information should owners

[2:28:48] provide so assessors can make

[2:28:50] accurate and timely valuations

[2:28:52] and lastly finally can we

[2:28:53] establish a uniform approach

[2:28:55] that reflects the2011 court

[2:28:56] decision protects local

[2:28:58] revenues, reduces disputes and

[2:29:00] gives communities and housing

[2:29:02] providers greater certainty.

[2:29:02] Again we want to thank everyone

[2:29:03] for for being

[2:29:06] here and excited to hear from

[2:29:07] everybody today really

[2:29:08] appreciate everyone for agreeing

[2:29:10] to take some time and speak.

[2:29:11] we're gonna start with

[2:29:13] Katrina Washington who's here if

[2:29:14] she would come forward for us.

[2:29:16] she's the executive director of

[2:29:18] NHS Oakla

[2:29:20] and so with that madam chair we

[2:29:21] turn it over to Miss Washington.

[2:29:30] kind of done them back to back

[2:29:32] because you had to stay for a

[2:29:33] whole study that well it's

[2:29:34] housing you're probably

[2:29:35] interested in you'll go ahead

[2:29:36] and introduce yourself and then

[2:29:38] the flourishers yes I'm Katrina

[2:29:40] Washington and executive

[2:29:41] director for neighborighbourhood

[2:29:44] housingervices Oklahoma so

[2:29:45] thank you

[2:29:48] so yes we have been

[2:29:52] experiencing some

[2:29:54] difficulty with some

[2:29:56] valuations we are often

[2:29:58] nonprofit partner with a lot

[2:30:00] of developers here in

[2:30:02] Oklahoma

[2:30:06] how that would affect a lot of

[2:30:09] the low income people so

[2:30:10] that is what I would like to was

[2:30:12] to start with so I'm sorry it

[2:30:14] wouldn't planning on being part

[2:30:15] of this

[2:30:17] this study so

[2:30:19] when we

[2:30:24] go forward and we are

[2:30:26] introduced into a development or

[2:30:30] a line tech project the

[2:30:32] developer will introduce us

[2:30:33] they'll come to us and say

[2:30:35] neighborigh housing services we

[2:30:38] have a project let's say

[2:30:42] there's a200 unit project

[2:30:44] they would like to make that

[2:30:47] project affordable so they will

[2:30:50] ask us to be the nonprofit

[2:30:50] partner to

[2:30:53] provide for

[2:30:58] let me start over provide for

[2:31:00] low income that would be below

[2:31:03] 80% or sometimes 30 to60% AMI

[2:31:08] individuals the importance of

[2:31:12] that would be to provide for

[2:31:13] additional

[2:31:16] units we currently have about

[2:31:19] 3500 units across the state

[2:31:24] of Oklahoma so without the tax

[2:31:27] exemptions that would be lost

[2:31:30] currently so it's important

[2:31:32] to keep that tax exemption in

[2:31:33] place.

[2:31:35] that's will start there

[2:31:39] the

[2:31:43] we are often the nonprofit

[2:31:46] partner and and it's it's very

[2:31:49] simple partnership when the

[2:31:50] developer goes to let's say

[2:31:52] Oakland housing finance Agency

[2:31:54] that was just speaking they will

[2:31:55] ask for what's called tax

[2:31:57] credits. We come in as a

[2:31:58] nonprofit partner that would

[2:32:02] provide for a tax exemption on

[2:32:04] the project that the developer

[2:32:07] is asking for let's say 10

[2:32:10] million or20 million on a200

[2:32:11] unit apartment

[2:32:14] complex we come in just to

[2:32:16] provide that tax exemption on

[2:32:18] the project

[2:32:22] we provide also compliance so we

[2:32:24] go in and make sure that that

[2:32:28] developer actually does make

[2:32:30] a number of those units

[2:32:32] affordable to low income

[2:32:34] individuals so as

[2:32:40] the housing nonwe let me say

[2:32:41] what neighborigh housingervices

[2:32:44] does we provide for our housing

[2:32:46] counseling we come in and we

[2:32:49] make sure that the individuals

[2:32:50] are receiving supportive

[2:32:53] services so we provide for

[2:32:56] housing counseling services we

[2:32:58] have individuals come in and

[2:33:00] learn about how to get back

[2:33:02] on their feet budget credit

[2:33:04] housing counseling down payment

[2:33:05] assistance and we provide those

[2:33:08] services for the developer so

[2:33:11] when they partner with us as a

[2:33:12] nonprofit they received that tax

[2:33:16] exemption so they were provide

[2:33:18] their application for the tax

[2:33:20] credits they can say we have a

[2:33:21] nonprofit partner that's going

[2:33:23] to provide supporter services on

[2:33:23] their application

[2:33:28] they often will offer us a small

[2:33:30] percentage of ownership but then

[2:33:32] for the for their project

[2:33:36] and we are a partner with that

[2:33:38] project for a number of years

[2:33:42] for 1f to20 years so we are a

[2:33:44] partner long term to make sure

[2:33:47] these developments stay low

[2:33:49] income we are there for

[2:33:50] supportive services for the

[2:33:52] individuals in these

[2:33:54] apartment complexes whether

[2:33:57] they're 30%60% income

[2:34:00] income driven

[2:34:04] and then yeah so we're therefore

[2:34:05] that compliance piece

[2:34:08] thank you so much for for

[2:34:10] sharing that and sorry to put

[2:34:10] you on the spot there we had

[2:34:12] another speaker that I wasn't

[2:34:13] able to make it so I thought

[2:34:14] your perspective there is

[2:34:16] incredibly important so thank

[2:34:17] you very much for for sharing

[2:34:18] that we want to move

[2:34:20] tolanceinndell he's president of

[2:34:22] Lw Development and appreciate

[2:34:23] him being here and madam chairir

[2:34:24] I'd like to turn over to Mr

[2:34:24] Wendell

[2:34:31] there it is let's try that

[2:34:32] again. Good afternoon. thanks

[2:34:32] for having me today.

[2:34:36] I I think probably the

[2:34:37] quickest thing that I can do is

[2:34:38] is make sure we kind of level

[2:34:40] the playing field there's a lot

[2:34:41] of acronyms that we get thrown

[2:34:42] around in here and so I can I

[2:34:43] can kind of help with some of

[2:34:44] that because I've been doing

[2:34:46] this for a long time and I

[2:34:48] keeps it simple for me we're

[2:34:49] here mainly today to talk about

[2:34:50] the light tech low income

[2:34:52] housing tax credit right and and

[2:34:55] how it how it builds housing

[2:34:56] in Oklahoma and then how do we

[2:34:58] assess that when we need to tax

[2:34:59] it or we need to tax that

[2:35:02] property tax and so first we can

[2:35:03] talk the we call it light tech

[2:35:03] lowcome housing tax credit

[2:35:06] we also call it section42.

[2:35:07] you'll have some people referred

[2:35:10] to it as 9% or4% credits but

[2:35:12] basically it's a tax credit that

[2:35:14] developers receive in order to

[2:35:16] build houses and generally

[2:35:17] those lie techs are in in the

[2:35:18] state of Oklahoma those lites

[2:35:20] are awarded by OA the Ocom

[2:35:21] Housing Finance Agency Darrell

[2:35:22] beavers was here a few minutes

[2:35:24] ago he kind of runs that show in

[2:35:26] awarding lightex so we we call

[2:35:27] themOFfa

[2:35:30] they provide light text and

[2:35:32] then so a developer like myself

[2:35:33] will go to OA it's a very

[2:35:34] competitive process and we'll

[2:35:35] ask for an award of credits

[2:35:37] and40 of us might ask and only

[2:35:38] 10 of us are going to get

[2:35:39] awarded because there just

[2:35:40] aren't enough to go around right

[2:35:41] but if we're lucky and we get

[2:35:44] ours then our next step once

[2:35:45] we've been awarded hey we want

[2:35:47] to build40 houses in Ardmore is

[2:35:48] we'll get that award but we

[2:35:49] still have to go get a

[2:35:50] construction loan so our next

[2:35:52] step would be to go get a

[2:35:53] construction loan we'll get a

[2:35:54] construction loan we'll build

[2:35:56] our houses or apartments and

[2:35:57] then after that

[2:35:59] we'll take those credits that

[2:36:00] were awarded to us they don't

[2:36:02] really exist until we've got the

[2:36:03] houses built but we'll take

[2:36:05] those credits and let's say we

[2:36:06] had a $10 million construction

[2:36:08] loan and we've got a set of

[2:36:10] credits from Ola and we can sell

[2:36:12] those for5 million dollars to an

[2:36:13] investor that will come into our

[2:36:14] deal so now our construction

[2:36:16] loan went from $10 million down

[2:36:18] to5 million dollars we're still

[2:36:20] going to have a5 million dollars

[2:36:21] perm loan so we still have a

[2:36:22] loan that we have to have but

[2:36:24] it's half maybe or sometimes

[2:36:25] less of what it should have been

[2:36:28] but in exchange for that we've

[2:36:30] promised to the state and

[2:36:32] federal government that we're

[2:36:33] going to rent those units for a

[2:36:34] lower rate right so where the

[2:36:36] rent might have been $1500 a

[2:36:38] month for that apartment it's

[2:36:39] only going to be $1000 a month

[2:36:40] right and the way that they kind

[2:36:42] of hold us to that is they have

[2:36:44] us sign what's called a urra a

[2:36:46] limited use restrictive

[2:36:47] agreement so we have to sign

[2:36:48] this law and we have to file it

[2:36:50] with the county right and it

[2:36:52] restricts that property

[2:36:53] generally for either the next 30

[2:36:55] or40 years so for irty or40

[2:36:55] years we've got

[2:36:58] to follow all these rules

[2:36:59] there's a lot of compliance that

[2:37:01] we have to do in in order to

[2:37:03] have received those tax credits

[2:37:06] so that is kind of where aid

[2:37:08] comes into now an assessor has

[2:37:10] got to figure out what the heck

[2:37:12] is this thing worth right

[2:37:14] because it's not worth the same

[2:37:15] thing as an open market

[2:37:16] apartment complex or a single

[2:37:18] family home it's got this weird

[2:37:19] restriction called allur on it

[2:37:22] so most of us have been in the

[2:37:23] industry and and and kind of

[2:37:24] common knowledge there are about

[2:37:25] three different ways to figure

[2:37:26] out what something's worth when

[2:37:28] we're talking about appraising

[2:37:29] right and the the first one

[2:37:30] would be the comparables

[2:37:31] comparables is great when you're

[2:37:32] trying to sell a single family

[2:37:34] house up ineddmond right and

[2:37:35] there was fi0 single family

[2:37:36] houses in the neighborhood that

[2:37:37] have sold in the past three

[2:37:38] years and and the praser can

[2:37:40] look at that and go hey this is

[2:37:42] what those houses are going for

[2:37:44] right? hard to do with the light

[2:37:46] tech apartment complex because a

[2:37:47] they're very very difficult to

[2:37:48] sell and b there aren't that

[2:37:49] many of them and so it's really

[2:37:49] hard to come up with comp

[2:37:52] s when you're trying to do light

[2:37:54] tech and so generally that's not

[2:37:56] a great way to do it we've seen

[2:37:57] some assessors try but it's just

[2:37:58] it's really difficult. The cops

[2:38:00] don't work the cops aren't in

[2:38:01] that town they're never the same

[2:38:02] size you know one's irty years

[2:38:04] older than the other one so the

[2:38:06] comparable method is kind of a

[2:38:07] kind of a problem you know the

[2:38:08] next one would be the

[2:38:10] construction cost method. Hey

[2:38:11] you just built it. Shouln't it

[2:38:12] be worth what it costs you to

[2:38:14] build and I will tell you in

[2:38:16] open market that makes a lot of

[2:38:17] sense matter of fact there was

[2:38:18] recently some legislation run to

[2:38:19] try to say absolutely in

[2:38:22] an open market apartment complex

[2:38:24] what we should what we should

[2:38:26] assess that for for at least the

[2:38:27] first couple of years while it's

[2:38:28] going to lease up is what it

[2:38:30] costs to build it that's fair we

[2:38:31] shouldn't be trying to

[2:38:32] anticipate what it's going to be

[2:38:33] worth in three years because the

[2:38:34] rents go up that doesn't make

[2:38:35] any sense.

[2:38:38] but when it comes to lie tech

[2:38:39] that that doesn't quite work

[2:38:40] because keep in mind it might

[2:38:42] have cost us $10 million to

[2:38:43] build it but we're only getting

[2:38:44] the rents of5 million dollars

[2:38:46] because of that big credit that

[2:38:48] we received so construction

[2:38:49] costs while it might work really

[2:38:50] well for open market

[2:38:54] man open market multifamily

[2:38:55] housing really tough to make

[2:38:56] work with light tech and so that

[2:38:57] leaves us with the income

[2:38:58] approach which makes a lot of

[2:39:00] sense right ok so the income

[2:39:02] approach how much rents are you

[2:39:03] gonna get? what are your

[2:39:04] expenses gonna be right and

[2:39:05] based on that it really

[2:39:06] turns that

[2:39:09] that apartment complex that we

[2:39:10] have important families living

[2:39:12] in into something that we can

[2:39:14] assess based on what is it worth

[2:39:16] based on its income right and so

[2:39:18] that really is kind of what we

[2:39:20] see is the best way to do it

[2:39:22] and when the appraiser does it

[2:39:24] right they need to assume the

[2:39:26] fact that we have this laura

[2:39:27] that says well it should be

[2:39:28] raining for $1500 a month but

[2:39:29] it's only renting for $1000 a

[2:39:31] month so it it can't be worth

[2:39:32] the same right and they have to

[2:39:34] account for a lot of the other

[2:39:36] restrictions right we have to

[2:39:37] look at it's not very easy to

[2:39:37] sell

[2:39:39] I'm not generally allowed to

[2:39:40] sell it without asking for

[2:39:42] permission from the investor and

[2:39:43] the lender

[2:39:45] and Ofa right so that's not

[2:39:46] normal where you know I can just

[2:39:48] sell my house when I want you

[2:39:48] know I've got like 3 different

[2:39:50] permissions so selling needs is

[2:39:52] really really difficult and so

[2:39:53] all these things need to be

[2:39:54] accounted for when we look at

[2:39:55] the income approach

[2:39:59] and so I wanna go why does it ok

[2:40:00] great but why does this matter

[2:40:01] and why does this need to be at

[2:40:03] the legislative level because we

[2:40:04] have other people that are

[2:40:06] involved in the game and I'm

[2:40:10] very scared of a developer to go

[2:40:12] to some counties where I'm not

[2:40:13] sure that that appraiser gets

[2:40:14] it. I will be very honest there

[2:40:16] are a lot of great appraisers in

[2:40:17] the state of Oklahoma and most

[2:40:18] of them I work with get it right

[2:40:20] and I come to them and it's a

[2:40:21] very easy conversation and they

[2:40:23] got it but every now and then

[2:40:24] right you run into one and I

[2:40:26] will tell you I have a couple of

[2:40:27] different counties that

[2:40:29] I'm just not interested in

[2:40:29] developing in because

[2:40:31] that and a couple of other

[2:40:32] things in that area just kind of

[2:40:34] scare me away right and so we

[2:40:36] want to help even that playing

[2:40:38] field out across the state and

[2:40:39] kind of get some get some

[2:40:40] guidelines out there that hey

[2:40:42] this is kind of how we have to

[2:40:44] do it so that's that's kind of

[2:40:45] why it matters that's that's why

[2:40:46] tech in a nutshell

[2:40:50] the last one I have it on my

[2:40:51] piece of paper so I'm gonna

[2:40:51] bring it up

[2:40:53] it does get very complicated

[2:40:54] right this evaluation is very

[2:40:56] complicated and I think as we

[2:40:58] look at legislation or how can

[2:40:59] we fix it one of the last things

[2:41:01] I would look at is is light tech

[2:41:02] is a little bit different than

[2:41:04] open market and so sometimes

[2:41:06] when we try to do the income

[2:41:08] approach we say hey your rent is

[2:41:10] you know $1000 a month and here

[2:41:11] are your expenses but it's hard

[2:41:12] to determine expenses so

[2:41:14] sometimes we throw out an

[2:41:15] expense multiplier while your

[2:41:17] expenses are 35% of your income

[2:41:19] that's a fairly common expense

[2:41:20] multiplier number but one of the

[2:41:21] problems we run into

[2:41:22] in litech is that's the same

[2:41:24] number that you would use in

[2:41:25] open market so I gonna do a

[2:41:26] little quick math for you. Hey

[2:41:28] that's a beautiful apartment

[2:41:29] complex and it should rent an

[2:41:31] open market for $1500 a month so

[2:41:32] we're gonna apply an expense

[2:41:34] multiplier on there of 35% which

[2:41:36] means your expenses are525

[2:41:38] dollars you know a month

[2:41:39] right it's what your expenses

[2:41:40] should be

[2:41:42] the exact same apartment complex

[2:41:45] identical except it's li tech so

[2:41:46] now the rent is $1000 a month

[2:41:47] we're going to throw a 35%

[2:41:47] multiplier on there

[2:41:50] your expenses are only $350 a

[2:41:52] month one is a guy who manages

[2:41:54] about2,000 units of light tech

[2:41:56] in the state of Oklahoma. I got

[2:41:57] to tell you that sometimes our

[2:41:58] tenants are a little bit more

[2:42:01] difficult to work with or we

[2:42:03] have more problems and so to

[2:42:04] bring my extensive multiple to

[2:42:06] bring my actual expenses down

[2:42:07] because we're trying to assess

[2:42:08] it the same way as we would

[2:42:09] multifamily

[2:42:10] is a problem

[2:42:13] there are a lot of little

[2:42:14] details like that that have to

[2:42:15] get worked out but we've got

[2:42:16] some great people much smarter

[2:42:18] than I am on the process and I

[2:42:19] think kind of if we could work

[2:42:20] together with them we could find

[2:42:22] something that helps developers

[2:42:23] find consistency in the state

[2:42:24] thank you

[2:42:26] thank you so much that was very

[2:42:28] helpful presentation appreciate

[2:42:30] you being here today and for for

[2:42:31] your investment in in Oklahoma

[2:42:33] in this space.ex madam chair if

[2:42:34] it's ok we'll move to Gary

[2:42:36] Schnyder who's the director of

[2:42:37] the Oklahoma State University

[2:42:38] Center for Local Government and

[2:42:40] Technology you'll give me just

[2:42:42] one second. thank you for your

[2:42:44] help on my bill I learned a lot

[2:42:46] and I really do appreciate the

[2:42:48] time that you took to make sure

[2:42:50] that we got that right. Also if

[2:42:51] you don't mind hitting your

[2:42:52] button to turn your mic off

[2:42:53] unless you want to stay on

[2:42:53] camera you totally can. right

[2:42:54] thank you

[2:42:56] sorry about that but thank you

[2:42:57] for your help I appreciate it.

[2:43:00] madam chairman members senator

[2:43:01] Fras thanks for the

[2:43:02] invite.ppreciate that

[2:43:05] folks my name is Gary

[2:43:06] Schnyder is a slide says

[2:43:09] and I am the director for the

[2:43:10] Center for Local Government

[2:43:11] Technology

[2:43:13] I was a former county

[2:43:13] assessor

[2:43:17] I worked in the county for a

[2:43:18] period of eight years and of

[2:43:20] those eight years I served as a

[2:43:22] county cessor before I had the

[2:43:23] opportunity to go over to OSU

[2:43:25] and work in the training program

[2:43:25] for county assessors and

[2:43:26] deputies

[2:43:30] my assistant director carried on

[2:43:32] Skidmore she's not be able to be

[2:43:34] with us today. she would like to

[2:43:36] but she had a previous

[2:43:36] engagement and

[2:43:40] both of us have some letters

[2:43:41] behind our name and I want you

[2:43:42] to just remember those because

[2:43:43] I'm going to cover that at the

[2:43:43] end of this presentation.

[2:43:47] the center

[2:43:49] our vision for the center

[2:43:51] is for

[2:43:55] we aim to be recognized

[2:43:56] authority in providing extension

[2:43:58] programs and services to our

[2:44:00] customers which positively

[2:44:00] impact their outputs

[2:44:02] we our mission

[2:44:06] is to provide quality extension

[2:44:08] programs and services including

[2:44:10] certification and accreditation

[2:44:12] that promote professionalism and

[2:44:14] efficiency for state and local

[2:44:16] entities plus other public and

[2:44:17] private clients

[2:44:22] Oklahoma State University is a

[2:44:23] land grant university

[2:44:28] actcting under two acts federal

[2:44:30] acts 1862 Moral Act in the 1887

[2:44:31] Hatch Act

[2:44:34] c l G T Center for Local

[2:44:35] Government we we've got a lot of

[2:44:39] acronyms too and umclGt is short

[2:44:39] for the center

[2:44:43] we are a unit of the OSU

[2:44:44] College of Engineering

[2:44:45] architecture and Technology

[2:44:48] and when I went to work first

[2:44:50] went over to OSU to work I

[2:44:52] couldn't understand why that

[2:44:53] unit was part of the engineering

[2:44:54] college and I'll I'll explain

[2:44:55] that here in a little bit

[2:44:58] to meet our mission we function

[2:44:59] under a three legged stool

[2:45:00] concept

[2:45:02] teaching research and extension

[2:45:08] the the teaching part which

[2:45:08] is the moral act

[2:45:10] states that

[2:45:14] educating students on campus

[2:45:15] through degree programs

[2:45:16] professional training and

[2:45:18] practical knowledge in fields

[2:45:19] like agriculture, engineering

[2:45:19] and the arts

[2:45:23] The Hatch Act deals with

[2:45:28] the research part discovering

[2:45:30] new science creating innovations

[2:45:32] and solving real world problems

[2:45:33] through advanced laboratory and

[2:45:33] field studies

[2:45:36] and that leaves the third part

[2:45:37] of the stool extension

[2:45:40] taking the research back

[2:45:40] discoveries made at the

[2:45:42] university ensuring them

[2:45:44] directly with citizens farmers

[2:45:46] businesses and the youth of the

[2:45:47] state of Oklahoma

[2:45:51] OSU meets that responsibility of

[2:45:53] being a land grant university

[2:45:56] inclGt meets that as part of an

[2:45:57] extension unit out of the

[2:45:57] college

[2:46:00] so current our current status

[2:46:02] status of theclGT programs we

[2:46:04] have three areas that we focus

[2:46:05] on

[2:46:08] one is the assessor training and

[2:46:09] accreditation program and

[2:46:09] there's that acronym

[2:46:13] that consists of seven courses

[2:46:15] 124ur hours in the classroom

[2:46:19] and required successful testing

[2:46:21] after each course and then

[2:46:22] completion of accreditation

[2:46:24] requires 30 hours of continuing

[2:46:25] education units over a three

[2:46:26] year period

[2:46:28] the second area that we

[2:46:30] concentrate on training is the

[2:46:31] boardard of equalization members

[2:46:34] which are the three board three

[2:46:36] members that hear the

[2:46:38] protests of property evaluations

[2:46:40] they have a six hour initial

[2:46:42] training requirement and then

[2:46:44] they have a three hour

[2:46:44] continuing education requirement

[2:46:45] each year

[2:46:48] both of these programs were

[2:46:48] established in 1988 legislation

[2:46:52] the boardard of the equalization

[2:46:54] training excuse me has kind of

[2:46:55] changed over the over the course

[2:46:58] of that time frame but that is

[2:46:59] the current status of that of

[2:47:01] that prop of that training that

[2:47:01] we do for that board members

[2:47:04] the equalization boardard

[2:47:06] members are also they also serve

[2:47:08] on is known as the excise

[2:47:10] boardard and that training has

[2:47:12] the same requirements only the

[2:47:14] cooperative extension service

[2:47:14] over in the agg collegelege

[2:47:16] provides that training for the

[2:47:18] excise board members so three

[2:47:19] members

[2:47:21] two different functions two

[2:47:22] different boards boardard of

[2:47:24] equalization deals with values

[2:47:26] the excise boardard deals with

[2:47:27] finances of the county

[2:47:30] the third area that we provide

[2:47:32] training and support on is

[2:47:33] called the computers assisted

[2:47:34] mass appraisal or the CAA

[2:47:35] program

[2:47:38] 2018 legislated legislation

[2:47:40] mandated forclGT to offer a new

[2:47:42] GIS appraisal software package.

[2:47:46] appraisal software we support

[2:47:48] the software the appraisal

[2:47:51] methodology we also include IT

[2:47:53] services and support to counties

[2:47:53] that don't have an IT department

[2:47:57] we currently have68 counties

[2:47:58] utilizing our sponsored software

[2:47:59] package

[2:48:02] we offer support training and

[2:48:04] assistance to all77 counties

[2:48:05] upon request.

[2:48:10] are beginning we started in 1972

[2:48:13] the birth ofclGt was by Do Jim

[2:48:14] Chamblin. he was out of the

[2:48:15] engineering college

[2:48:18] and he wanted to mimic what was

[2:48:19] going on over in the extension

[2:48:20] over in the extension program in

[2:48:22] the ag collegelege so he

[2:48:23] developed a partnership with the

[2:48:24] cooperative extensionervice to

[2:48:26] provide training to local units

[2:48:27] of government

[2:48:30] they they concentrated on county

[2:48:32] clerks county treasurers and

[2:48:34] county commissioners in 1982 the

[2:48:37] legisl legislator reached out to

[2:48:38] the doctor Shamlin and asked if

[2:48:42] he would help implement and

[2:48:43] produce county purchasing

[2:48:43] handbook

[2:48:46] to honor the county purchasing

[2:48:47] actct that was established

[2:48:49] as a result of some

[2:48:53] unfavorable business practices

[2:48:53] of county commissioners

[2:48:56] that county purchasing actct

[2:48:58] is still in place it is

[2:49:00] administered now the training on

[2:49:01] that is administered by the

[2:49:03] Ag extensionroup over in the

[2:49:03] collegelege of that

[2:49:07] 1988 legislation House Bill1750

[2:49:11] introduced accreditation

[2:49:12] program introduce training for

[2:49:13] county ancestors and deputies

[2:49:16] ri or to that mandatory training

[2:49:20] you learned from the person

[2:49:22] you were going to replace in the

[2:49:23] assessor's office whether it

[2:49:24] was right, wrong or indifferent

[2:49:27] and the assessors association

[2:49:29] really courted the legislature

[2:49:31] to enact some type of mandatory

[2:49:32] training for county assessors

[2:49:35] the first accreditation class

[2:49:36] was delivered in September of

[2:49:38] 1989 and we've been doing that

[2:49:39] ever since

[2:49:42] also in that bill

[2:49:44] computerization of assessor of

[2:49:46] assessing officers who was

[2:49:47] enacted

[2:49:51] prior to that the assessment

[2:49:52] role and the tax roll both those

[2:49:53] documents were handwritten

[2:49:57] each year and so I was never

[2:49:58] able to work in the assessor's

[2:49:59] office because I didn't have

[2:50:00] good handwriting at that time

[2:50:03] but the computerization was

[2:50:04] really important both of those

[2:50:06] documents were produced with a

[2:50:09] with a pc a personal computer at

[2:50:11] that time during the 91990s is

[2:50:12] when that actually came to play

[2:50:16] computerization of mapping prior

[2:50:17] to that you know everybody was

[2:50:17] mapping on a piece of paper

[2:50:21] but a digital computerization

[2:50:23] software was introduced again

[2:50:24] you could map on a personal

[2:50:25] computer and on a Pc

[2:50:28] the introduction of the

[2:50:30] computersisted mass appraisal

[2:50:31] project was also at this time

[2:50:34] and the acronym canna that

[2:50:35] definition it has two

[2:50:38] definitions to it one it's a

[2:50:40] methodology of appraising a lot

[2:50:41] of properties in a very short

[2:50:42] period of time in Oklahoma we

[2:50:44] have the annual valuations so

[2:50:47] every January the assessor has

[2:50:48] to place a new place a value or

[2:50:50] at least adjust the value both

[2:50:52] on real property and tangible

[2:50:54] personal property that's subject

[2:50:55] to add alarm taxation

[2:50:58] A A also means it's a software

[2:51:00] package to help you do that it's

[2:51:01] strictly a tool to help you

[2:51:04] effectively generate a number

[2:51:06] that hopefully reflects fair

[2:51:06] market value according to the

[2:51:07] constitution

[2:51:12] and again this this this

[2:51:14] bill during this time there was

[2:51:16] a complete rewrite of Title68,

[2:51:17] the revenue and tax title

[2:51:20] title Article28 replaced

[2:51:22] Article24 at the time and it

[2:51:23] deals mainly with avaloum issues

[2:51:32] In2006clGt and the

[2:51:32] Oklahomaarative extension

[2:51:33] Service partnership dissolved

[2:51:35] and the

[2:51:40] theclGT retained the training

[2:51:41] for the assessors and the

[2:51:41] boardard of the equalization

[2:51:42] members

[2:51:46] the other mandatory training is

[2:51:47] still conducted by the

[2:51:48] cooperative extensioner for all

[2:51:50] the other elected offices

[2:51:53] assessors and sheriffs may

[2:51:54] attend the training offered by

[2:51:56] the corpo of the extensionervice

[2:51:58] how it's not a shall because we

[2:52:00] the both of those entities have

[2:52:00] obligated mandatory training

[2:52:05] in2008 the state auditor and

[2:52:08] inspector at the time during

[2:52:11] that 1988 iv reconstruction

[2:52:14] of the legislation state auditor

[2:52:16] was providing IT services to

[2:52:17] counties that didn't have an IT

[2:52:17] department

[2:52:20] and the auditor at the time

[2:52:21] wanted to be relieved of those

[2:52:22] duties and ask if we would take

[2:52:25] that on and so the computer

[2:52:26] county computer unit was moved

[2:52:27] toclGT.

[2:52:30] we still provide that service on

[2:52:31] we did it through a contractor

[2:52:31] now.

[2:52:34] in2018 the came bill House

[2:52:35] Bill3372 was approved

[2:52:38] by by governor Fallon

[2:52:41] and it ordered us to implement

[2:52:44] an OSUclGt camera system we went

[2:52:46] out and looked for a new chemist

[2:52:48] system GISba cheva system the

[2:52:49] one that was installed in the

[2:52:51] early 90s was administered by

[2:52:52] the Oklahoma Tax Commission ad

[2:52:53] alarm division

[2:52:55] and it was time to get a new

[2:52:56] one. It was26 years old at the

[2:52:58] time and so we went through the

[2:53:00] purchasing process at OSU and we

[2:53:01] secured a new chemist system

[2:53:06] so end of the programs now what

[2:53:07] do we do in the in the AapP

[2:53:09] program we provide the statutory

[2:53:10] statutory required initial and

[2:53:12] advanced accreditation provide

[2:53:14] technical assistance to county

[2:53:16] assessor's deputies and initial

[2:53:17] and continuing education to

[2:53:17] equalization board members

[2:53:21] the essential training program

[2:53:24] is comprised of seven units

[2:53:28] there's forts full4 full time

[2:53:29] instructors that work in the

[2:53:29] program

[2:53:32] the units the topics are

[2:53:33] defined in the statute what are

[2:53:34] we to teach

[2:53:36] unit one and two when you

[2:53:38] successfully complete those and

[2:53:40] when say successfully each

[2:53:41] course has a mandatory

[2:53:42] testing at the end of the course

[2:53:44] each of the seven courses has a

[2:53:46] fi0 question test and you have

[2:53:48] to make a70% in order to

[2:53:49] consider pass

[2:53:52] so unit one is an introduction

[2:53:54] to the assessor's office

[2:53:55] how do you how do you interact

[2:53:56] with the other offices in the

[2:53:58] courthouse what are your duties

[2:53:59] what are your responsibilities

[2:54:02] unit two is where we start

[2:54:03] introducing the approaches to

[2:54:06] value that was covered recently

[2:54:08] in in real property appraisal we

[2:54:09] introduced the cost approach was

[2:54:09] the cost to build it

[2:54:12] and the sales comparison

[2:54:12] approach the market approach

[2:54:14] properties that have sold we use

[2:54:15] that information to appraise

[2:54:16] properties that have not sold

[2:54:18] Once you successfully complete

[2:54:20] that then the tax commission

[2:54:22] will initiate will offer you

[2:54:23] an initial accreditation

[2:54:23] certificate

[2:54:26] then we go into the other

[2:54:29] courses unit 3 we talk about

[2:54:30] mass appraisal that's how do you

[2:54:31] appraise all those properties in

[2:54:32] that very short period of time

[2:54:35] unit four is the third approach

[2:54:35] to value the income approach.

[2:54:38] Unitive how do you value your

[2:54:41] personal property unit6 cadatral

[2:54:42] mapping that's just a fancy word

[2:54:44] for producing a tax map and then

[2:54:46] unit se is unique to Oklahohoma.

[2:54:47] how do you value your

[2:54:49] agricultural land so unit one

[2:54:51] and unit7 are unique to Oklahoma

[2:54:54] but the other five2 through6 are

[2:54:56] standard appraisal courses that

[2:54:58] are patterned after our

[2:54:59] professional organization that

[2:55:00] I'll discuss here at the end

[2:55:04] oncece you receive that

[2:55:04] advanced accreditation and you

[2:55:06] have a continuing education

[2:55:08] requirement beginning the

[2:55:08] January once you complete the

[2:55:09] courses

[2:55:12] eachach course or the all the

[2:55:13] courses are anywhere from one

[2:55:16] day to one day of the test and

[2:55:17] then from three full days of

[2:55:18] instruction to the following

[2:55:19] fourth day with an exam

[2:55:23] that consists of 124 hours

[2:55:24] sitting in the classroom that

[2:55:26] doesn't count nights weekends

[2:55:27] and other other times that you

[2:55:28] might need to prepare for that

[2:55:29] exam.

[2:55:32] The interesting part about

[2:55:36] this we have a wide range of

[2:55:38] folks that attend these courses

[2:55:39] currently we're we're teaching

[2:55:42] here in the Oklahoma City

[2:55:43] metropolitan area

[2:55:44] we're gonna be doing unit 3 next

[2:55:45] week

[2:55:50] in unit two we had students call

[2:55:52] them students I got stop that

[2:55:54] it's called learners now to be

[2:55:56] politically correct we had

[2:55:57] learners that just graduated

[2:55:58] from high school in May

[2:56:01] and we have season or senior

[2:56:02] folks that haven't been in the

[2:56:04] classroom for years haven't

[2:56:06] taken a test in a while and so

[2:56:08] our responsibility is to see

[2:56:10] that everybody's successful but

[2:56:12] we can only do so much as

[2:56:14] instructors and so we take a lot

[2:56:16] of time and effort to make sure

[2:56:18] that they are successful. not

[2:56:20] everybody is not everybody is

[2:56:21] successful and so that's

[2:56:23] unfortunate but you know we

[2:56:24] do our best to see that

[2:56:25] everybody has an opportunity to

[2:56:26] be successful

[2:56:30] in addition the county

[2:56:30] boardard of equalization

[2:56:32] training these are the folks

[2:56:33] that hear the protests on the

[2:56:33] evaluation process

[2:56:37] the statute authorizesclGt to

[2:56:38] develop and conduct the

[2:56:40] mandatory training for the board

[2:56:42] members within 12 months of

[2:56:44] their appointment to the board

[2:56:46] that's a sixhour training event

[2:56:48] and then upon completion of that

[2:56:50] they have a three hourur annual

[2:56:52] continuation credit. We offer

[2:56:54] the opportunity for those board

[2:56:56] members to attend some of those

[2:56:57] seven accreditation units if

[2:56:58] they want to to get those three

[2:57:00] hours but they can also attend

[2:57:02] the the boardard of equalization

[2:57:03] training that we're offering

[2:57:03] also

[2:57:08] Here's what we cover in that we

[2:57:10] talk about the duties of the

[2:57:11] board we talk about the open

[2:57:13] meetings open records actct we

[2:57:14] talk about the appraisal process

[2:57:17] the assessment process we spent

[2:57:18] a lot of time on the appeals

[2:57:19] process and we talk about some

[2:57:21] practical practical examples

[2:57:24] such as caps and freezes and

[2:57:25] senior freezes and and senior

[2:57:26] veterans

[2:57:28] exemptions and so on how does

[2:57:30] that affect the appraisal

[2:57:32] process that's been a very

[2:57:34] rewarding process we spent about

[2:57:36] an hour talking about that

[2:57:37] practical examples that those

[2:57:38] board members are going to

[2:57:39] encounter

[2:57:42] d d ition al training courses

[2:57:43] that we've done over the years

[2:57:44] the most popular right now is

[2:57:46] data collection and data entry

[2:57:47] both for residential and

[2:57:48] commercial properties we're

[2:57:50] bringing our learners into our

[2:57:52] classroom in Stillwater we take

[2:57:54] them out into the field we teach

[2:57:55] them what information you are to

[2:57:56] collect and then we wind up back

[2:57:58] in the computer lab on entering

[2:58:00] that information into the cheva

[2:58:01] system to see how the numbers

[2:58:01] are different

[2:58:04] we've we've offered excel in the

[2:58:06] past we've taken we've done some

[2:58:07] advanced income training that's

[2:58:08] a step up from our unit for

[2:58:09] income approach

[2:58:12] we we've done deeds and sales

[2:58:14] analysis in fact last week

[2:58:15] we've gone to some four hour

[2:58:16] workshops around the state where

[2:58:18] in the morning last week we

[2:58:20] talked about deeds and then in

[2:58:21] the afternoon we talked about

[2:58:22] how do you analyze that

[2:58:23] information to determine what's

[2:58:24] going on in the marketplace

[2:58:26] manufactured homes is always a

[2:58:29] popular topic to talk about you

[2:58:30] know get ready to move and you

[2:58:32] got to have a form and you know

[2:58:33] sometimes that farm's not in

[2:58:35] place and it's just kind of a

[2:58:36] convoluted process but we've

[2:58:38] been successful at at teaching

[2:58:39] how to do that

[2:58:41] manyy storage evaluation we've

[2:58:42] done some basic math in the in

[2:58:44] the past apartments convenience

[2:58:46] stores of course we're always

[2:58:46] talking about the cheva system

[2:58:48] and how do you how do you

[2:58:49] analyze that information in that

[2:58:51] system visual inspection plan

[2:58:52] and a budget for that and then

[2:58:54] map analyzer is the mapping

[2:58:56] component of the chemist system

[2:58:57] how do you how do you do that

[2:58:57] how do you how do you use that

[2:58:58] that

[2:59:00] that software package within

[2:59:02] that chemist system so those are

[2:59:04] some things that we you know

[2:59:07] covered in recent past

[2:59:10] we're always looking for other

[2:59:12] oper other opportunities each

[2:59:14] year at the annual Oklahohoma

[2:59:14] Tax Commission conference

[2:59:16] evaluation conference usually in

[2:59:17] august

[2:59:20] we're usually teaching about40

[2:59:22] to45% of those little

[2:59:23] workshopslash this past august

[2:59:24] we did commercial data

[2:59:25] collection and entry

[2:59:28] we talked about deed viewer

[2:59:30] module that's a module that

[2:59:32] allows the assessor to pull

[2:59:33] deeds from the county clerk's

[2:59:34] office without actually having

[2:59:36] to go and get a paper copy of

[2:59:37] that we can do it electronically

[2:59:39] we talked about generational

[2:59:40] perspectives how did the baby

[2:59:42] boomers deal with the latest how

[2:59:44] do they deal with those students

[2:59:45] that just graduated from high

[2:59:46] school that's employed in the

[2:59:48] assessor's office there's a you

[2:59:50] know a big hurdle for everybody

[2:59:51] to get along. We talked about

[2:59:52] the rankenberg Supreme Court

[2:59:54] case which talks about when you

[2:59:56] actually can put improvements on

[2:59:57] the on the assessment roll

[3:00:00] iveyear manufacturing exemptions

[3:00:01] data entry and maintenance how

[3:00:02] do we do that within the cheva

[3:00:04] system always talk about

[3:00:06] exemptions it's a really there's

[3:00:07] a lot of exemptions we cover

[3:00:07] those

[3:00:09] and then the assessor timeline

[3:00:11] the assessor's office operates

[3:00:12] on a very strict timeline when

[3:00:14] do you have to do what we cover

[3:00:15] that in that timeline

[3:00:15] presentation

[3:00:18] and again as I said we're we're

[3:00:20] constantly looking for topics to

[3:00:22] cover for training topics we're

[3:00:25] constantly asking ours our our

[3:00:26] constituents you know what do

[3:00:28] you need from us and we'll

[3:00:30] develop based upon a needs

[3:00:31] basis we'll develop topics if we

[3:00:32] know that there's a need and

[3:00:34] there's a request for a need

[3:00:36] again I've talked about the

[3:00:37] fourho workshops that we're

[3:00:39] doing just last week we did that

[3:00:42] we we did four hours in Tulsa

[3:00:43] we went to Mccalister the next

[3:00:44] day after that then we wound up

[3:00:45] in Woodward and then we

[3:00:47] followed up with

[3:00:53] Clinton I believelin or we I

[3:00:54] think it was Wetherford where we

[3:00:56] did that so that workshop we

[3:00:57] talked about deeds how do you

[3:00:58] analyze a deed how do you work

[3:01:00] deed within the camera system

[3:01:01] then in the afternoon we talked

[3:01:03] about ok let's analyze that

[3:01:04] information what does that sales

[3:01:05] information telling us about

[3:01:05] what's going on in the market

[3:01:09] and this reduces travel for our

[3:01:10] customers and we start at 10

[3:01:14] and we'll adjourn by 3 3:304

[3:01:16] o'clock depending on how in the

[3:01:18] weeds we want to get in the

[3:01:20] afternoon on that so been very

[3:01:21] successful at that topics that

[3:01:22] we've covered during these

[3:01:24] fourho workshops or again the

[3:01:26] mobile homeme manufacturing 936

[3:01:28] form and data entry on that

[3:01:30] Board of equalization dos and

[3:01:31] don'ts this is for the assessor

[3:01:32] how do you get ready to go to a

[3:01:34] protest to defend the value that

[3:01:36] you placed on that property

[3:01:37] we've talked about the visual

[3:01:38] inspection plan it's a four year

[3:01:40] plan how do you how do you get

[3:01:41] all that done within that for

[3:01:41] you you have to

[3:01:44] inspect all properties with

[3:01:45] Union County at least once every

[3:01:47] four years talked about deeds

[3:01:48] and sales analysis and again

[3:01:50] we're always looking for topics

[3:01:51] to cover in those little

[3:01:51] workshops

[3:01:54] the third component is the

[3:01:56] computer system massoposal

[3:01:58] project and we provide statutory

[3:02:00] training technical assistance

[3:02:01] software appraisal assistance to

[3:02:02] county assessors and deputies.

[3:02:02] we

[3:02:08] we currently have68 of the77

[3:02:10] counties on our our cheva system

[3:02:11] that we support

[3:02:14] we currently have 1f staff that

[3:02:16] support the software support

[3:02:18] training on the software

[3:02:20] appraisal training hands on site

[3:02:22] hands on training mapping

[3:02:24] training data entry and reports

[3:02:26] all kinds of reports are

[3:02:28] requested from the from the

[3:02:29] system and we trained on how to

[3:02:29] generate those

[3:02:32] this is just a map to showing

[3:02:34] you where these chemist staff

[3:02:36] are located they are employees

[3:02:38] of OSU but they're located at

[3:02:38] their home they work out of

[3:02:40] their home so that they don't

[3:02:41] have a lot of travel. they can

[3:02:42] work within their geographical

[3:02:46] area and much more efficient to

[3:02:47] do that instead of everybody

[3:02:47] being out of stillwater

[3:02:51] Recent legislation I'm sure

[3:02:52] everybody in this room's aware

[3:02:54] you know legislation is passed

[3:02:55] as session talked about

[3:02:58] how we're going to value some

[3:02:59] properties residential rental

[3:03:00] housing properties I just put

[3:03:02] that statute up there it refers

[3:03:05] back to2802 which defines what

[3:03:07] that is and it defines what

[3:03:10] residential rental housing means

[3:03:12] basically some multifamily

[3:03:14] housing and you know it looks

[3:03:15] like the statute says we're

[3:03:16] going to use the cost approach

[3:03:18] on that so I don't see a I don't

[3:03:21] see a huge impact for assessors

[3:03:24] to to understand how to do that

[3:03:25] we'll probably be involved in in

[3:03:25] some training

[3:03:26] to get that accomplished

[3:03:30] so now our professional

[3:03:32] organization every profession

[3:03:33] usually has an organization

[3:03:33] behind it

[3:03:35] and ours is the International

[3:03:36] association of assessing

[3:03:38] officeficers and that'siAAO for

[3:03:39] short

[3:03:41] I I bring that up because when I

[3:03:43] ask you to remember the letters

[3:03:44] behind our names on the first

[3:03:46] slide. this is a professional

[3:03:48] organization that was founded in

[3:03:50] 1934 to provide training

[3:03:51] professional designations and

[3:03:52] consulting to taxing

[3:03:55] jurisdictions across the world

[3:03:56] have about 8000 members

[3:03:59] worldwide in North America is

[3:04:01] the largest member of the

[3:04:02] organization but there's 35

[3:04:03] foreign countries also that has

[3:04:03] members

[3:04:06] our Oklahoma chapter of this

[3:04:07] organization was established in

[3:04:10] 1985 and currently there's

[3:04:11] about25 Oklahoma members that

[3:04:13] hold professional designations

[3:04:14] and there are the letters there

[3:04:16] I have a RAS which is a

[3:04:17] residential evaluation

[3:04:20] specialist carried on skidmore

[3:04:21] the first my assistant director

[3:04:22] she has an assessment

[3:04:24] administration specialist

[3:04:26] designation and there's are are

[3:04:28] other designations so I just

[3:04:30] brought that up to because in

[3:04:31] 1988 during that legislation

[3:04:31] reform

[3:04:35] the legis the legislators

[3:04:36] actually consulted with IWO to

[3:04:38] talk about you know what do we

[3:04:39] need what do we need to do for

[3:04:40] ratio studies and what do we

[3:04:43] need to do for education and so

[3:04:44] at that time the legislature

[3:04:46] adopted what we call inhouse

[3:04:48] training instead of going out

[3:04:50] traveling across the United

[3:04:52] States to get training from the

[3:04:53] International association they

[3:04:55] decided to haveclGt do the

[3:04:56] training and so we call it

[3:04:58] inhouse in Oklahoma training for

[3:05:00] accreditation purposesgain I I

[3:05:01] stated that you know5 of our

[3:05:04] courses are patterned after

[3:05:05] these courses administered by

[3:05:06] the association

[3:05:09] the association their courses

[3:05:10] are a little more in depth or a

[3:05:12] day longer there's of courses

[3:05:13] are a little bit more difficult

[3:05:14] their tests a little bit harder

[3:05:18] but to get a designation you

[3:05:20] have to take about6 or7 of their

[3:05:21] courses and pass a couple of

[3:05:23] masters exams in the in the in

[3:05:25] the end to go to get designated

[3:05:26] for one of the choices that s

[3:05:27] that an individual can choose so

[3:05:31] that's what I've got an

[3:05:31] entertain questions if there are

[3:05:32] any

[3:05:35] thank you for that presentation

[3:05:36] we appreciate the important work

[3:05:38] you'll do there and I think

[3:05:40] that's helpful to understand

[3:05:42] where our assessors and our

[3:05:42] other county officials get

[3:05:44] training from so thank you for

[3:05:46] that. proving down the agenda

[3:05:47] madam chairir if it's alright,

[3:05:48] we'd like to recognize Ron Dene,

[3:05:50] the Muscogee County assessor

[3:05:52] from my home county and he's

[3:05:54] gonna share his approach to

[3:05:55] assessing affordable housing

[3:05:55] units.

[3:06:00] thank you so much senator for

[3:06:02] hosting this this interim

[3:06:04] study I appreciate it very much

[3:06:06] thank you Senator Fricks for for

[3:06:07] asking me to present

[3:06:10] I I want to kind of give a

[3:06:12] little bit of of groundwork of

[3:06:14] of why Muskogee County is here

[3:06:16] and why Senator Pricks asked me

[3:06:18] to to speak on this topic

[3:06:20] topic we have got several of

[3:06:24] section42IHTc developments

[3:06:26] within our community that have

[3:06:27] been quite successful through

[3:06:30] the years of helping folks to

[3:06:34] both have affordable homes to

[3:06:36] live in or apartments but as

[3:06:37] well as a path to home ownership

[3:06:42] and so we're we're proud of

[3:06:43] of what has been done there and

[3:06:45] I look forward to a possibility

[3:06:47] of some additional

[3:06:48] developments in our community.

[3:06:52] Muskogee County has 155 single

[3:06:54] family homes that were built

[3:06:57] using the section42lIhTc program

[3:07:00] we also have 300 apartment or

[3:07:03] duplex units that gives us a

[3:07:05] total residential units that

[3:07:06] fall under this program in

[3:07:07] Muskogee County

[3:07:14] of455 individual residential

[3:07:14] units

[3:07:19] the next slide this is just a a

[3:07:21] single family home that is is

[3:07:24] one that is built under this

[3:07:26] program and it's they're

[3:07:30] they're around between 1100

[3:07:32] and1200 square foot two car

[3:07:35] garage and most of these were

[3:07:37] built in the original town site

[3:07:40] of Muskogee on infill lots

[3:07:42] vacant lots that had had been

[3:07:43] setting for a while the city

[3:07:44] the county and individuals

[3:07:45] worked

[3:07:48] with the developers to provide

[3:07:50] those lots and sell those

[3:07:54] this next one is actually in a

[3:07:57] development of53 homes where

[3:08:00] vacant land was purchased

[3:08:02] that had not been developed for

[3:08:04] years it was on the fringe of of

[3:08:07] older and and older neighborhood

[3:08:10] and the city worked with this

[3:08:12] builder to put in the the

[3:08:14] infrastructure and sidewalk

[3:08:14] streets and so on and so forth

[3:08:18] and then then it was was

[3:08:20] built and it's it's been a a a

[3:08:24] good representation this is a

[3:08:27] fi5 and older low income

[3:08:30] apartments that also falls under

[3:08:32] the same same program that

[3:08:35] was was built there in in

[3:08:38] town and my understanding is

[3:08:40] it has a waiting list constantly

[3:08:43] for folks because they're we

[3:08:44] have an aging population in

[3:08:45] Oklahoma

[3:08:49] and and folks that that

[3:08:51] their income is also

[3:08:54] restricted so this this

[3:08:55] development has been great for

[3:08:57] them this is an apartment

[3:09:00] complex that is not age

[3:09:02] restricted that that also

[3:09:04] falls under the the program

[3:09:10] this is a duplex we have got5

[3:09:14] different duplex developments

[3:09:16] within the county that that

[3:09:18] worked quite well and and

[3:09:20] have have fell under this

[3:09:24] this program the total valuation

[3:09:25] of these properties and I think

[3:09:27] this is is is very important to

[3:09:29] to look at these numbers the

[3:09:31] value total valuation of these

[3:09:34] properties for2026 it's 16,495,

[3:09:44] 37 $3 or $36,254 per unit the

[3:09:48] estimated taxes for2026 are

[3:09:55] $189,847 or417 dollars per unit.

[3:09:58] Those taxes pay for the services

[3:09:59] provided by the recipients of

[3:10:02] adviloum taxes and in our county

[3:10:04] those funds are broken down and

[3:10:05] distributed as displayed

[3:10:09] ub er schools

[3:10:17] receives $132,931 which is70.02%

[3:10:20] of all ad valoum dollars. the

[3:10:23] county receives 9.82%, which is

[3:10:28] $18,643 the botech the same

[3:10:34] 9.82%18,643eastern Oklahoma

[3:10:35] library district 3.

[3:10:45] 92 % or7,442

[3:10:47] EMServis2.9cent5600 dollars

[3:10:51] county health department2.45%

[3:10:54] uh4651 dollars and theusskogee

[3:10:56] cityity has a small sinking fund

[3:11:00] for tort claims and judgments of

[3:11:04] 1.02% or $1937 so as you can see

[3:11:05] every one of

[3:11:11] those $189,847 that are

[3:11:12] represented in taxes for

[3:11:16] those455 units are going for

[3:11:18] services that are used by the

[3:11:21] residents of that of those

[3:11:23] properties most of of these

[3:11:25] homes because of the nature of

[3:11:28] the program represent a child

[3:11:32] or two or 3 so you've got a lot

[3:11:33] of kids getting on buses at at

[3:11:34] all of these facilities every

[3:11:35] single morning they're going to

[3:11:38] the library they're using the

[3:11:40] health department and and

[3:11:42] hopefully the bow tech is is

[3:11:44] is able to offer a lot of

[3:11:46] education as well as our our

[3:11:47] schools

[3:11:52] working with a local developer

[3:11:54] in2006 that was building single

[3:11:57] family homes the the very first

[3:11:58] picture of the single family

[3:12:00] home that was a a developer that

[3:12:05] developed 142 of them and

[3:12:08] under this program we worked

[3:12:10] together to develop a method of

[3:12:12] valuation that we've used for

[3:12:14] the last 20 years in developing

[3:12:18] all of the LITcH programs

[3:12:18] within our county we use the the

[3:12:19] very

[3:12:23] same method in valuing all of

[3:12:24] them we developed the

[3:12:28] capitalization rate usingU rents

[3:12:30] and accounted for as as you

[3:12:32] presented earlier and I'm so

[3:12:34] glad you touched on that that

[3:12:36] these these developments

[3:12:39] normally have increased expenses

[3:12:42] those are are common for such

[3:12:44] developments so so we accounted

[3:12:47] for the increased expenses on

[3:12:48] those section42 tax credits

[3:12:53] were not used as income or

[3:12:56] considered in the cap the

[3:12:56] development of the

[3:12:58] capitalization rate but in the

[3:13:00] development of that cap rate we

[3:13:03] also did not include a recapture

[3:13:04] of the investment

[3:13:08] on that so it was a a cap rate

[3:13:10] that you would develop based on

[3:13:12] income but it was modified

[3:13:15] because there had been some

[3:13:18] recapture of that so where you

[3:13:20] normally would say for a fif

[3:13:23] to20 year period you're going

[3:13:24] to have a certain percentage

[3:13:26] every year that you've got to

[3:13:27] recapture

[3:13:30] we took that step out what that

[3:13:31] resulted in in removing that one

[3:13:34] step is a traditional cap rate

[3:13:35] on these properties would have

[3:13:38] been a 10.32 cap rate. The

[3:13:40] higher the cap rate the lower

[3:13:42] the value the lower the cap rate

[3:13:44] the higher the value with a

[3:13:46] modified cap rate just with that

[3:13:48] one step of recapture taken out

[3:13:52] it gave us a cap rate of 8.82%.

[3:13:55] Now what did that what did that

[3:13:56] result in in values the

[3:13:59] resulting valuation was the

[3:14:01] construction cost of these units

[3:14:04] in206 when they were built new

[3:14:09] was60,774 dollars and as as you

[3:14:10] eloquently put that that

[3:14:13] construction cost is not is not

[3:14:14] appropriate in this type of

[3:14:16] development to reflect the

[3:14:18] market value because of the

[3:14:20] different expenses that go along

[3:14:22] with it because of the of the

[3:14:24] rent rates a traditional cap

[3:14:26] valuation using that that

[3:14:31] 10.32 cap would have resulted in

[3:14:37] a $39,62 valuation or64.3% of

[3:14:40] the construction cost with the

[3:14:42] modified cap rate of 8.82 it

[3:14:48] gave us a value of45,709 or75.2%

[3:14:49] of the construction cost

[3:14:53] this developer built similar

[3:14:56] homes in multiple counties over

[3:14:57] several years and I believe

[3:14:58] you're very familiar with with

[3:15:01] this developer and during that

[3:15:04] time he he always encouraged the

[3:15:06] ancestors in those counties

[3:15:08] please call Muskogee County and

[3:15:09] visit with him we have a

[3:15:11] development there and we worked

[3:15:16] with them on a a fair

[3:15:18] approach to valuation and we're

[3:15:19] comfortable with it and we would

[3:15:19] like that applied on our

[3:15:23] properties in your county as as

[3:15:24] well and several of those

[3:15:27] candidates did did adopt that

[3:15:30] valuation method and it was very

[3:15:32] successful. It was a successful

[3:15:34] program for our community but it

[3:15:36] was also a successful program

[3:15:39] for the developer as well in2023

[3:15:42] he started selling off those

[3:15:45] homes and the median sale price

[3:15:47] for those homes was78,000

[3:15:49] dollars and at that time our

[3:15:49] meeting in a praised

[3:15:53] value on these properties

[3:15:57] were59,912 dollars so with with

[3:15:59] the sale price median sale price

[3:16:02] of78,000 and we had a value of59

[3:16:05] 912 it proved that over the

[3:16:10] course from2006 to2023 this

[3:16:12] developer was able to maintain

[3:16:15] take care of a lot of

[3:16:16] maintenance and a lot of upkeep

[3:16:18] in his properties when he sold

[3:16:19] them were in near as good a

[3:16:19] shape as

[3:16:22] they were when he built them

[3:16:24] in2006 because of the way that

[3:16:25] they were managed and he was

[3:16:27] able to do that using the

[3:16:30] modified valuation that we had

[3:16:33] and at the same time his folks

[3:16:35] that were residents in those

[3:16:37] properties were being serviced

[3:16:39] by the tax dollars that were

[3:16:40] were being provided on those

[3:16:42] properties it was not a burden

[3:16:44] for the developer and then at

[3:16:46] the time the sale happened he

[3:16:49] realized a profit on those

[3:16:49] properties and

[3:16:53] at the same time we were at a

[3:16:56] reasonable defence in

[3:17:02] valuation on that so as

[3:17:04] as the other presentative said I

[3:17:06] I would be willing to take any

[3:17:08] questions now from anyone or at

[3:17:10] the end of the presentation and

[3:17:11] I appreciate your time

[3:17:13] thank you so much for your

[3:17:14] presentation and I think that's

[3:17:16] very helpful and appreciate you

[3:17:17] making the trip over here today

[3:17:20] and and to to present finally

[3:17:22] our our final presenter today

[3:17:24] isissa Button she's with

[3:17:26] Dominium, she's the director of

[3:17:28] their government relations and

[3:17:29] with that madam chairir I'd like

[3:17:30] to turn it over to Marissa thank

[3:17:32] you so much and thank you madam

[3:17:34] chair thank you Senator Fricks I

[3:17:35] just want to acknowledge you did

[3:17:37] such a great job succinctly

[3:17:38] explaining the light tech

[3:17:39] program and probably better than

[3:17:40] any of us that are in the weeds

[3:17:41] could do that so so

[3:17:44] props for that so so thank

[3:17:45] you all really a pleasure to be

[3:17:47] here my approach is going to be

[3:17:48] just a touch different say I'm

[3:17:50] going to humanize the things

[3:17:51] that we're talking about with

[3:17:54] regard to these policies as we

[3:17:56] look at affordable housing

[3:17:57] developments I think there's

[3:17:58] definitely a through line in

[3:18:00] this session from the last

[3:18:02] interim study the whole reason

[3:18:03] we're talking about this is

[3:18:04] there's a deficit in housing

[3:18:06] supply throughout the state and

[3:18:09] there is certainly a big toolbox

[3:18:10] that has a lot of tools for a

[3:18:11] multifamily rental to home

[3:18:14] ownership programs that these

[3:18:16] policies are designed to to

[3:18:18] facilitate because there is a

[3:18:20] deficit in supply. So a little

[3:18:23] bit about dominion we have a

[3:18:25] significant presence in Oklahoma

[3:18:26] we're in the process of

[3:18:27] developing over the next few

[3:18:27] years

[3:18:31] about 1000 units of multifamily

[3:18:32] affordable workforce housing

[3:18:34] through the light tech program

[3:18:35] which you've heard a ton about

[3:18:36] today so I'm not going to go

[3:18:38] into the weeds about yi tech

[3:18:39] functionally in this

[3:18:42] presentation but but with that

[3:18:44] these are developments of

[3:18:46] significant size and a

[3:18:46] significant number of units in

[3:18:50] scope and we've worked with

[3:18:51] the Oklahoma housing finance

[3:18:53] Agency to really pull out their

[3:18:55] bond program and get a real

[3:18:56] scale of development to meet

[3:18:57] that housing needs so I wanted

[3:18:58] you

[3:19:00] to know that's the framework in

[3:19:02] which I'm I'm talking about

[3:19:03] today so even though my slides

[3:19:04] talk about light tech I will

[3:19:06] jump through it pretty quickly

[3:19:07] because I know we're coming to

[3:19:09] time as well but I think

[3:19:10] something that's important to

[3:19:12] understand when we talk about

[3:19:14] policy related to affordable

[3:19:16] housing and particularly tax

[3:19:18] policy as we get in the weeds is

[3:19:21] y tech in many ways is different

[3:19:22] than what some think about

[3:19:23] affordable housing so you're

[3:19:24] going to hear me myth bust in

[3:19:26] the next few minutes as well.

[3:19:27] obviously as it has been

[3:19:28] describe

[3:19:30] d light tech is a financing tool

[3:19:33] and it is an incentive to build,

[3:19:36] develop and invest in areas so

[3:19:37] in this state the reason the

[3:19:39] program is really important

[3:19:41] and effective is it is because

[3:19:43] it incentivizes that investment

[3:19:45] and it's not investment from the

[3:19:46] developer that comes in but it's

[3:19:48] the investment in the financing

[3:19:50] partners as well it's the

[3:19:51] investment in the increased

[3:19:53] value through commercial

[3:19:56] benefits to those areas as well

[3:19:57] so it really is a remarkable

[3:19:57] program and it's

[3:20:00] been around for40 years so

[3:20:04] that's really a hallmark of the

[3:20:05] program as well it is not a

[3:20:08] rental subsidy and so I just

[3:20:09] want to you know whenever we

[3:20:10] have the mic I like to do some

[3:20:12] myth busting about that lie tech

[3:20:14] is not a rental subsidy it's

[3:20:15] something much different. These

[3:20:17] are modern quality apartments

[3:20:18] designed to serve the workforce

[3:20:22] in an area and the beautiful

[3:20:24] part about the program aslance

[3:20:27] mentioned is once you get those

[3:20:27] credits and it becomes that

[3:20:28] financing

[3:20:30] tool and you get that investment

[3:20:32] there is long term monitoring

[3:20:34] for the commitments that are

[3:20:35] made in that program so

[3:20:40] OFA is a excellent partner and

[3:20:42] they are mandated to make sure

[3:20:44] that these developments serve

[3:20:45] the incomes that they are

[3:20:46] limited to and charge the rents

[3:20:48] that are limited which

[3:20:50] ultimately is a charitable

[3:20:52] purpose of the program itself

[3:20:54] it's meeting the gap it's

[3:20:55] serving those needs in the

[3:20:56] community and the state housing

[3:20:58] finance agency is the one that's

[3:21:00] making sure that laura that

[3:21:02] lance mentioned that has all

[3:21:03] those requirements is is

[3:21:05] actually being set forth but

[3:21:05] the beautiful part about the

[3:21:06] public

[3:21:08] private partnership is not only

[3:21:10] do you get it from OA but you

[3:21:11] get it from your private

[3:21:12] investment as well you know

[3:21:14] there's banks that have invested

[3:21:15] there's private financing

[3:21:16] partners that have put debt on

[3:21:18] this that you're responsible for

[3:21:20] paying back through part of the

[3:21:21] life of the development in the

[3:21:22] permanent phase and they are

[3:21:24] also tracking and making sure

[3:21:25] these things are happening. so

[3:21:27] it is a legit very legitimate

[3:21:28] program that provides a big

[3:21:30] incentive to the community. I'm

[3:21:32] gonna go through some

[3:21:36] quick example slides these

[3:21:37] developments are specs of

[3:21:38] certain things that dominion's

[3:21:40] done over time but what you see

[3:21:42] is these communities provide

[3:21:44] amenities that are beneficial to

[3:21:46] the community to add value

[3:21:48] overall to the residents and

[3:21:50] have overall sort of maintenance

[3:21:52] as well with on site management

[3:21:55] and the in unit amenities

[3:21:58] have high standards as well and

[3:22:00] part of what we're doing here is

[3:22:01] making sure that when you drive

[3:22:02] by any development, well yes it

[3:22:04] may be different because it is

[3:22:06] income restricted and rent

[3:22:07] restricted. Anybody that's

[3:22:10] driving by has no idea that that

[3:22:12] is housing that is subsidized

[3:22:13] anyway they're proud to have it

[3:22:14] a part of their community it is

[3:22:16] serving a need and a deficit of

[3:22:18] units and housing supply in the

[3:22:20] community and it's really

[3:22:20] important that it presents that

[3:22:23] way as well and some may say but

[3:22:24] my gosh these things they seem

[3:22:26] so fancy will ultimately we are

[3:22:28] doing a quality product that is

[3:22:30] going to be under an

[3:22:32] affordability restriction for 30

[3:22:33] fi0 sometimes

[3:22:35] into the perpetuity depending on

[3:22:36] the program that it's financed

[3:22:38] with so if we do quality on the

[3:22:40] front end it extends through the

[3:22:42] life of the development you're

[3:22:44] not coming back and having to do

[3:22:45] a significant amount of

[3:22:46] refinancing or becoming a blight

[3:22:48] to the community overall that

[3:22:49] would perpetuate stereotypes

[3:22:51] about affordable housing so we

[3:22:52] think this is really important

[3:22:54] and again family development

[3:22:55] you've got a playground here

[3:22:56] you've got an outdoor grilling

[3:22:58] area things that anybody would

[3:23:01] like to have you know where

[3:23:02] they live you know I said

[3:23:03] that

[3:23:05] I would make this about the who

[3:23:06] a little bit more and try to

[3:23:08] humanize it and part of this is

[3:23:10] understanding who lives in live

[3:23:11] tech developments and what

[3:23:12] charitable benefit and need does

[3:23:15] it serve? So you heard in the

[3:23:18] last session Mr beaver from offA

[3:23:20] talked about the sort of need

[3:23:21] study that was done throughout

[3:23:22] the state at a statewide level

[3:23:24] and this is just some

[3:23:24] information that complements

[3:23:26] that from the national

[3:23:28] lowwcomehousing coalition we

[3:23:30] have a significant amount of

[3:23:32] renters in Oklahoma that are

[3:23:33] paying more than half

[3:23:36] of their income on their housing

[3:23:37] costs.grams like Lytech are

[3:23:39] designed to serve those cost

[3:23:40] burdened individuals and get

[3:23:44] them below 30% of their income

[3:23:46] being attributed to their

[3:23:47] housing

[3:23:49] to their housing costs because

[3:23:50] you know when it goes the cost

[3:23:53] burden increases that individual

[3:23:55] does not have the resources to

[3:23:56] address things like healthcare

[3:23:58] transportation where they're

[3:23:59] getting their groceries, what's

[3:24:01] happening with that and part of

[3:24:02] the issue with the deficit is

[3:24:04] you've got developers and

[3:24:06] landlords in the state that

[3:24:07] cannot build or operate rental

[3:24:09] homes at prices that are

[3:24:11] affordable to households because

[3:24:12] what the household can pay in

[3:24:14] rent can't cover the cost to

[3:24:15] build and operate the project so

[3:24:16] this is just really a through

[3:24:18] line of whatlance is mentioning

[3:24:19] as well and why when you talk

[3:24:21] about valuation and and and

[3:24:21] things of that nature

[3:24:24] when you have a light tech deal

[3:24:25] when the market changes you

[3:24:26] can't just increase rents right?

[3:24:28] And so that's a really

[3:24:30] significant thing when we

[3:24:31] understand the impacts of

[3:24:32] operating expenses on a

[3:24:35] development and what is

[3:24:36] available for operating income

[3:24:38] on a development as well so this

[3:24:41] is just a little snapshot

[3:24:42] Oklahoma City so right this is

[3:24:44] not statewide for Oklahoma the

[3:24:46] little snapshot theli tech

[3:24:47] program those income limits and

[3:24:49] rent limits are dictated by how

[3:24:50] they come out every year they

[3:24:51] are updated by

[3:24:56] metropolitan areas and and so

[3:24:57] there's a whole methodology

[3:24:58] behind it. I didn't make this up

[3:25:00] that all all of that is to say

[3:25:01] but it's a recognition of what

[3:25:02] you can see here in live tech

[3:25:04] developments you're mostly

[3:25:04] serving folks that are at or

[3:25:07] below60% area median income and

[3:25:09] when HUD comes out with those

[3:25:12] income limits that goes by

[3:25:14] persons in the household and I

[3:25:16] have the 140% threshold here

[3:25:17] because the beauty of this

[3:25:19] program also from a myth busting

[3:25:21] perspective is that it does not

[3:25:21] incentivize people

[3:25:24] not to get promotions or not to

[3:25:26] get better jobs or not to

[3:25:28] increase income. The program

[3:25:29] recognizes

[3:25:30] as long as you're initially

[3:25:32] qualified if your income

[3:25:34] increases and gets up to that

[3:25:36] 140% threshold you are allowed

[3:25:38] to stay in the development and

[3:25:40] the beauty of that is you start

[3:25:42] saving you you go through that

[3:25:44] sort of spectrum of now I can

[3:25:46] move into one of the single

[3:25:48] family homes that are being

[3:25:49] produced either through this

[3:25:51] you know program or you know

[3:25:52] being able to access down

[3:25:54] payment assistance for a single

[3:25:56] family home so so we know it's a

[3:25:58] long sort of road to housing so

[3:25:59] to speak as that has been

[3:25:59] brought up today

[3:26:00] but this is a really important

[3:26:02] aspect of the program to mythbus

[3:26:04] that and so when we talk about

[3:26:05] rent limits the other thing that

[3:26:07] this demonstrates is really

[3:26:10] that there are we have a just

[3:26:12] the difference between 80% AMI

[3:26:15] and60% AMI again you have the

[3:26:16] income limits of what someone

[3:26:17] makes but then what can the

[3:26:18] renter be charged and what is

[3:26:20] that you know upward limit for

[3:26:22] households and it increases with

[3:26:23] the number of persons but

[3:26:26] it's60% AMI those are the posted

[3:26:27] rent limits in Oklahoma City

[3:26:28] what this tells you is these are

[3:26:29] members of your work

[3:26:32] f or ce People are working here

[3:26:34] to pay rent to the owner

[3:26:35] operators of the developments as

[3:26:38] well and so you know there's a

[3:26:40] lot of like we've talked

[3:26:42] about before sort of negativity

[3:26:44] and thoughts about affordable

[3:26:46] housing and that the people that

[3:26:47] live there aren't contributing

[3:26:48] to either the workforce or the

[3:26:50] economy or antiquated ideas

[3:26:52] about folks that live there are

[3:26:53] criminals or or things like that

[3:26:54] or it brings an unsavory aspect

[3:26:56] to a community and that's just

[3:26:58] simply not the case from an

[3:26:59] individual perspective you

[3:27:00] have people contributing to the

[3:27:04] economy from a perspective of

[3:27:05] the quality of the

[3:27:06] developments that come in and

[3:27:08] the data that reflects the

[3:27:09] values of the property

[3:27:10] surrounding those developments

[3:27:12] in light tech increase as well

[3:27:14] it's really important so the

[3:27:16] other piece of that is through

[3:27:18] OA that long term

[3:27:20] affordability period is being

[3:27:22] monitored residents are having

[3:27:23] background checks done like all

[3:27:26] of this is a really well oiled

[3:27:27] machine in place from that

[3:27:28] regulatory perspective and so

[3:27:29] these are

[3:27:30] not real residents these are

[3:27:32] stock photos as you can probably

[3:27:34] tell. but this sort of gives you

[3:27:36] a snapshot right? John Sarah and

[3:27:38] three kids you have someone

[3:27:39] these these salaries are pulled

[3:27:41] from indeed in this area.

[3:27:43] pharmacy tech toddler teacher

[3:27:46] combined annual income of63,000

[3:27:48] we have a fiveperson income

[3:27:50] limit through that methodology I

[3:27:51] told you about of just

[3:27:53] over63,000 they fall within the

[3:27:54] income limit they've got a four

[3:27:56] bedroom rent and this allows

[3:27:58] them to also as I mentioned

[3:27:59] before not

[3:28:01] be stuck at that level continue

[3:28:02] to improve in their careers and

[3:28:04] their own economic development

[3:28:06] as a family another example

[3:28:08] Daniella and daughter again

[3:28:09] stock phototo made up but pulled

[3:28:11] data from Deercreekschools.org

[3:28:14] it shows that the same kind of

[3:28:16] thing. So I'm gonna jump

[3:28:17] through we know there's an

[3:28:18] economic impact the thing that I

[3:28:20] will bring this into a closing

[3:28:21] in is that

[3:28:24] when we talk about uncertainty

[3:28:26] in the ad valorem tax for

[3:28:28] affordable housing and any

[3:28:30] valuation. what it does is it

[3:28:31] puts a chilling effect on that

[3:28:34] investment from folks who want

[3:28:36] to come in and provide that

[3:28:37] economic impact to Oklahoma so

[3:28:39] whether it's valuation or

[3:28:41] whether it is the tax exemption

[3:28:43] itself being approved at

[3:28:46] those assessor's offices we

[3:28:48] need predictable policy in order

[3:28:50] to have predictable investment

[3:28:51] thank you so much

[3:28:53] and happy to take any

[3:28:53] questions later.ppreciate it.

[3:28:57] thank you for that presentation

[3:28:59] that was very helpful and again

[3:29:00] want to thank all of our

[3:29:02] presenters today for for sharing

[3:29:04] and with that madam chair we

[3:29:05] turn over to you if you'd like

[3:29:06] to take any questions or

[3:29:08] conclude from there.

[3:29:10] no thank you think we're we're

[3:29:11] going to take a quick

[3:29:12] breaksenator Peterson is here

[3:29:14] thank you all for coming today

[3:29:16] lots of information this is

[3:29:17] complicated and it's definitely

[3:29:18] something that we need to be

[3:29:20] having conversations about

[3:29:21] because we for sure want

[3:29:22] workforce housing and we don't

[3:29:24] want to accidentally mess things

[3:29:25] up so thank youure

[3:29:26] we'll be back here

[3:29:28] for Senator Peterson at 130.

[3:38:30] OK everyone we are now going to

[3:38:32] turn the floor over to senator

[3:38:34] Peterson thanks for coming

[3:38:36] today. Always good to see you

[3:38:38] and we are praying for rain for

[3:38:40] everyone and you are on the list

[3:38:43] too. right with that most of

[3:38:44] y'all have been in here all day

[3:38:45] just some quick housekeeping

[3:38:46] this is informal you don't have

[3:38:48] to work through the chair.

[3:38:50] Senator Peterson I'll let you

[3:38:51] run the meeting and turn it over

[3:38:52] to you and we'll just have a

[3:38:53] great conversation. I do have a

[3:38:54] hard stop

[3:38:57] at2:30 so I'm gonna keep us on

[3:38:58] on track but now the floorage

[3:38:59] yours

[3:39:02] thank you madam chairir and

[3:39:04] thank you for allowing this

[3:39:06] interim study to be held today

[3:39:07] and thank you for everybody

[3:39:08] that's in attendance that are

[3:39:09] interested in this topic

[3:39:12] this is actually a requested by

[3:39:14] the department of commerce and

[3:39:15] currently there are two bills

[3:39:16] with conflicting language

[3:39:20] regarding foreign adversaries

[3:39:22] and national security and how

[3:39:23] those two

[3:39:26] are kind of different and

[3:39:26] spelled out in two different

[3:39:27] bills and we're here to address

[3:39:28] that

[3:39:30] commerce engages daily with

[3:39:33] counties utilities title

[3:39:35] companies and economic

[3:39:36] development organizations that

[3:39:39] want to follow the law and keep

[3:39:41] projects moving right now two

[3:39:42] statutes use different

[3:39:44] frameworks in place the

[3:39:46] department of of commerce at the

[3:39:48] center of intake without giving

[3:39:49] them authority to make

[3:39:49] determinations

[3:39:52] they're proposing a fix to be

[3:39:54] considered today at this time

[3:39:56] I'll turn the study over to

[3:40:00] Jennifer Gover, little son the

[3:40:01] state federal legislative

[3:40:03] liaison with the Oklahoma

[3:40:03] Department of Commerce.

[3:40:06] thank you and thank you madam

[3:40:08] chair for listening to our

[3:40:10] our interim study this afternoon

[3:40:12] we have been working on this for

[3:40:13] a while this is something

[3:40:16] that we're requesting an

[3:40:18] amendment to some legislation I

[3:40:19] wanted to introduce Mark

[3:40:20] Wells who's our director of

[3:40:22] global trade and and investments

[3:40:24] and he and his team has come

[3:40:26] across something that's very

[3:40:27] interesting and we're looking

[3:40:28] forward to working on this with

[3:40:29] the senate so at this time I'll

[3:40:29] pass it over to Marc.

[3:40:33] thank you very much madam

[3:40:34] chairir thank you Senator

[3:40:35] Peterson thank you very much for

[3:40:38] your support on this project

[3:40:41] very simply we are bringing

[3:40:43] this bill before you today or

[3:40:46] this SB893 that had been

[3:40:48] passed and just suggest

[3:40:50] making a couple of observations

[3:40:52] and suggestions and I have a

[3:40:54] presentation to try to put it

[3:40:56] into some context and I'll just

[3:40:59] say that my comments are

[3:41:00] mainly about

[3:41:04] section four which pertains to

[3:41:06] national security I do have a

[3:41:08] background in national security.

[3:41:10] I'm joined by Rob Wilcox from

[3:41:12] the department of Commerce also

[3:41:14] a veteran and a deep background

[3:41:15] in that those issues

[3:41:19] so if I could just say talk for

[3:41:20] just a moment about the

[3:41:22] importance of foreign direct

[3:41:26] investment in Oklahoma it is

[3:41:27] already a very important part of

[3:41:30] our economic base majority

[3:41:32] owned US affiliates of foreign

[3:41:34] multinational enterprises employ

[3:41:39] about60,000 Oklahomans as of2024

[3:41:44] and that includes about25,700

[3:41:46] jobs in manufacturing OK and

[3:41:48] over the last five years the

[3:41:50] foreign direct investment has

[3:41:51] the commitments on foreign

[3:41:53] direct investment has exceeded6

[3:41:55] billion dollars so roughly

[3:41:59] about5400 jobs are related to

[3:42:00] foreign direct investment at an

[3:42:05] average wage of65,500. Now

[3:42:07] Oklahoma when you compare it to

[3:42:08] other states that are are

[3:42:09] competitors

[3:42:12] they actually have a lower stock

[3:42:15] in FDI or foreign direct

[3:42:18] investment and what we have

[3:42:19] attracted is unusually

[3:42:22] concentrated in manufacturing

[3:42:25] and so roughly43% of foreign

[3:42:27] affiliate employment in Oklahoma

[3:42:29] is in manufacturing and that's

[3:42:32] compared with about 35%34%

[3:42:34] nationally and that matters

[3:42:36] because these are the areas

[3:42:38] where we are focused most in

[3:42:39] commerce our strategy to attract

[3:42:43] advanced manufacturing

[3:42:46] aerospace, energy equipment

[3:42:47] critical mineral processing and

[3:42:49] other capital intensive sector

[3:42:51] so this is exactly where we want

[3:42:52] to grow and foreign direct

[3:42:54] investment plays an important

[3:42:57] part. These companies don't only

[3:42:59] employ Oklahomans but they also

[3:43:01] create economic opportunities

[3:43:03] for Oklahoma suppliers working

[3:43:05] in the same industry they bring

[3:43:08] capital technology and knowhow

[3:43:09] that can raise productivity and

[3:43:09] increase the value of

[3:43:12] Oklahoma's economy and so the

[3:43:14] policy challenges really not

[3:43:16] about whether or not foreign

[3:43:18] investment is good or not what

[3:43:19] we want to say is Oklahoma

[3:43:22] welcomes foreign investment but

[3:43:23] we want investment that narrows

[3:43:24] the risks that might be

[3:43:26] associated with ownership by

[3:43:28] foreign adversaries and that is

[3:43:30] really the topic that we wanted

[3:43:32] to talk about what happens when

[3:43:34] a country that is considered a

[3:43:38] foreign adversary tries to

[3:43:39] invest in the United States.

[3:43:39] there is a federal government

[3:43:44] system that is long established

[3:43:46] since 1975 theittee on Foreign

[3:43:48] Investment in the United States

[3:43:50] it's known asyus it's run by the

[3:43:52] department of Treasury and it is

[3:43:55] a committee with members of the

[3:43:56] intelligence community, the

[3:44:00] military as well as commerce and

[3:44:02] other law enforcement agencies

[3:44:04] and what they do is review

[3:44:05] transactions

[3:44:09] they can they review any kind

[3:44:12] of foreign transaction that

[3:44:15] would give control of

[3:44:17] certain technologies or

[3:44:21] properties to US foreign uh'm

[3:44:23] sorry to foreign businesses be

[3:44:25] it a foreign adversary or just

[3:44:28] any old country that is

[3:44:29] outside of the United States so

[3:44:32] it can improve a transaction it

[3:44:34] can require mitigation can it

[3:44:35] can say we don't like the way

[3:44:36] that this deal is structured and

[3:44:38] they could they could request it

[3:44:40] being changed they could ask

[3:44:42] for a divestiture and in some

[3:44:44] very rare cases the president

[3:44:46] himself can order that an

[3:44:48] investment be unwound and it

[3:44:50] has happened a couple of times

[3:44:54] and so what I am just trying

[3:44:57] to impart is that this is it

[3:44:59] already exists it is a a riskbas

[3:45:02] look at transactions. I'm not

[3:45:04] actually talking about

[3:45:05] physical area just yet which our

[3:45:06] law

[3:45:07] gets into so

[3:45:11] so what we're not trying to

[3:45:13] do is recreate this process this

[3:45:14] already exists it serves the

[3:45:18] entire country and as

[3:45:21] opposed to and the federal

[3:45:23] government has the you know the

[3:45:25] authority over our national

[3:45:25] security

[3:45:27] the state has the authority

[3:45:29] over property ownership and here

[3:45:30] is where maybe some of the

[3:45:32] tension lies so

[3:45:35] I have presented you all with

[3:45:37] a paper that shows this I don't

[3:45:38] have a slide on it for the

[3:45:41] audience but the what we did was

[3:45:44] we took SB893 and we took

[3:45:46] thecifius currentyus regulations

[3:45:48] and we mapped it out. So for

[3:45:51] uhyus the k there are there is a

[3:45:53] geographic jurisdiction and

[3:45:54] there's a transactional

[3:45:58] jurisdiction and the the current

[3:46:00] list of sensitive sites as

[3:46:02] defined by the federal

[3:46:03] government will give

[3:46:06] you 100 mile radius around

[3:46:09] Tinker Alti and Vance Air Force

[3:46:11] bases and a one mile radius

[3:46:12] around Fort Sill and the

[3:46:15] Mccalister army ammunition

[3:46:16] plant. there may be others there

[3:46:18] that you consider sensitive this

[3:46:20] is the current list that

[3:46:22] thetreasury department is

[3:46:23] working from it is informed by

[3:46:26] the department of war. Now what

[3:46:28] that means is within that

[3:46:32] within those zonesyeus has a

[3:46:33] geographic

[3:46:36] jurisdiction over a

[3:46:37] transaction so if some company

[3:46:39] wants to come in and be in that

[3:46:42] zone if it's if it is any

[3:46:44] kind of foreign countryytheus

[3:46:46] has jurisdiction in certain

[3:46:48] cases those are going to be

[3:46:50] mandatory I should have

[3:46:52] pointed out at the top I'm not a

[3:46:54] lawyer so lawyers make a

[3:46:56] lot of money working through

[3:46:58] thesecius cases and I have

[3:47:00] talked to several of them as

[3:47:02] I've worked through this

[3:47:02] process but as my

[3:47:04] understanding of it is

[3:47:07] the the other thing that they

[3:47:10] have jurisdiction is any

[3:47:12] transaction over certain

[3:47:16] types of of technology

[3:47:18] critical infrastructure and

[3:47:20] in sensitive personal data. So

[3:47:22] even aside from the zones that

[3:47:25] are marked by the yeus map

[3:47:26] there could be other

[3:47:27] transactions that would be

[3:47:28] reviewable by yeus

[3:47:33] so SB893 operates differently.

[3:47:36] it prohibits a foreign principle

[3:47:38] from from a foreign adversary

[3:47:40] country from directly or

[3:47:42] indirectly purchasing holding

[3:47:44] renting or otherwise controlling

[3:47:48] real property within 10 miles of

[3:47:50] a military base or installation

[3:47:53] a military operating area or

[3:47:55] other critical infrastructure

[3:47:56] so we know where the bases are

[3:47:58] those are a lot more than what

[3:47:59] just what we have in

[3:48:02] theius map and the critical

[3:48:04] infrastructure definition in

[3:48:08] SB893 is very broad so I mean if

[3:48:10] you look we decided we couldn't

[3:48:12] even run all of it on the the

[3:48:14] GIs technology we had but we put

[3:48:16] as much of it in as we could and

[3:48:18] it pretty much blacks out the

[3:48:22] entire state as far as a

[3:48:23] prohibition on foreign

[3:48:24] adversaries owning or

[3:48:25] controlling directly or

[3:48:28] indirectly any real property. So

[3:48:29] and I didn't even get to what a

[3:48:30] military

[3:48:32] operation area is or anything

[3:48:33] like that so it is let's just

[3:48:36] say that the law effectively

[3:48:37] prohibits any of this action

[3:48:40] within the confines of the state

[3:48:42] so not trying to argue one

[3:48:43] way or the other here just

[3:48:45] pointing out that that is the

[3:48:48] effective impact of the

[3:48:50] legislation so restrictions

[3:48:52] on land ownership in Oklahoma

[3:48:54] are not new. we all know that

[3:48:56] it's the constitution has long

[3:48:58] limited land ownership by non-S

[3:48:59] citizens

[3:49:02] it's subject to a bona fide

[3:49:04] residency exception initle60

[3:49:05] implements that constitutional

[3:49:05] rule

[3:49:08] there's also section three of

[3:49:10] this bill which I'm not here to

[3:49:11] address today but it also

[3:49:12] restricted corporate farming and

[3:49:17] ranching since 1978 so they

[3:49:19] these laws do have apply to a

[3:49:21] foreign corporation and it

[3:49:22] can include a a corporation

[3:49:25] organized outside of Oklahoma so

[3:49:27] the definition there would

[3:49:30] also include a oh let's just

[3:49:31] say a company from Texas would

[3:49:32] be considered foreign to an

[3:49:34] Oklahoman under that law. So

[3:49:35] these restrictions have never

[3:49:35] really amounted to a

[3:49:38] general prohibition on

[3:49:40] commercial activity in Oklahoma

[3:49:43] by companies from foreign

[3:49:45] countries the state corporate

[3:49:47] law permits out of state and

[3:49:49] foreign companies to to

[3:49:50] qualify to do business here in

[3:49:52] corporations generally may own

[3:49:55] real estate necessary to conduct

[3:49:56] lawful businessssentially it's

[3:49:59] just if they engage in

[3:50:01] interstate commerce they are

[3:50:02] able foreign companies are able

[3:50:05] to operate and own land in

[3:50:05] uhokklahoma so there

[3:50:08] had been a shift recently in the

[3:50:10] United States toward this

[3:50:12] national security question of

[3:50:14] should we be protecting areas

[3:50:17] close to sensitive sites as I

[3:50:18] mentioned Oklahoma has these

[3:50:21] military bases but we are also a

[3:50:25] hub for energy and

[3:50:28] pipelines all of those of course

[3:50:30] are extremely important to us

[3:50:31] and we want to make sure we're

[3:50:32] doing our part to protect

[3:50:35] against vulnerabilities so SB893

[3:50:35] which takes

[3:50:39] effect on this coming July 1st

[3:50:42] it moved further to create

[3:50:43] restrictions tied to

[3:50:44] agricultural land that's section

[3:50:48] 3 and then section four this

[3:50:49] military geography and critical

[3:50:51] infrastructure that I

[3:50:52] mentioned earlier

[3:50:55] let me just say a word about

[3:50:57] some of the other states that

[3:50:59] have passed laws similar to

[3:51:01] this. I'll focus on Florida,

[3:51:03] Texas and Arkansas. I'll say

[3:51:04] there's I think Nebraska is the

[3:51:06] only other one that's really

[3:51:07] gotten the law through so

[3:51:09] Oklahoma is really a a pioneer

[3:51:10] in this area. I think across

[3:51:12] the country about40 states have

[3:51:14] seen legislation proposed in

[3:51:16] this area but these are the ones

[3:51:18] that have been successful so

[3:51:20] Florida adopted their framework

[3:51:22] in2023. they restrict certain

[3:51:23] foreign

[3:51:26] principles from acquiring

[3:51:27] agricultural land and from

[3:51:28] acquiring real property within

[3:51:30] 10 miles of military

[3:51:32] installations and specified

[3:51:33] critical infrastructure

[3:51:35] facilities. Their definition

[3:51:36] and I had an interview with them

[3:51:38] their definition is is pretty

[3:51:40] confined and not nearly as

[3:51:44] expansive as what we have in

[3:51:45] their case they created their

[3:51:48] own law their own list of

[3:51:49] foreign adversaries is

[3:51:51] determined by the governor and

[3:51:52] Florida commerce established an

[3:51:53] office called Se

[3:51:56] cu re Florida which with a

[3:51:58] staff of six monitors foreign

[3:52:02] ownership in Florida so there

[3:52:04] was a legal challenge to this

[3:52:08] law again not a lawyer but

[3:52:10] it does run afoul of there's

[3:52:12] allegations that it violates the

[3:52:14] equal protection clause of the

[3:52:18] US Constitution of the

[3:52:20] singling out of nationalities

[3:52:21] and so

[3:52:24] states have relied on other

[3:52:26] people making the lists other so

[3:52:28] Florida went ahead and made

[3:52:29] their own list

[3:52:32] this has not been tested

[3:52:34] fully in federal courts there

[3:52:37] have been challenges but so

[3:52:38] far most have been dismissed.

[3:52:40] I'll talk about one other but

[3:52:41] but others have been dismissed

[3:52:42] for lack of standing

[3:52:47] ex enacted SB17 in2025 which

[3:52:48] restricted real property

[3:52:51] acquisitions by governments

[3:52:53] companies organizations and

[3:52:55] individuals connected to

[3:52:56] designated countries in this

[3:52:59] case they use the the

[3:53:00] director of national

[3:53:01] intelligence annual threatat

[3:53:03] assessments report that comes

[3:53:05] from the federal intelligence

[3:53:08] community and it also allows

[3:53:10] the governor to assign other

[3:53:12] countries and again they had

[3:53:13] another challenge to that law

[3:53:16] and that has been struck down

[3:53:18] for the the challenge was struck

[3:53:20] down for a lack of standing so

[3:53:22] some of these questions have not

[3:53:23] really been tested. I want to

[3:53:24] just mention Arkansas because

[3:53:26] it's a a very interesting

[3:53:28] lesson here in Arkansas so they

[3:53:32] used a a foreign adversary

[3:53:35] list derived from the

[3:53:36] international traffic and arms

[3:53:40] regulations or the ITAR and

[3:53:42] that drew a legal challenge and

[3:53:43] the judge sustained it

[3:53:45] because the purpose of the ITarR

[3:53:48] law is related to selling

[3:53:50] arms abroad which countries can

[3:53:53] and can and you you can and

[3:53:53] cannot sell arms to

[3:53:56] so when they when the judge

[3:53:57] looked at it they said this

[3:53:58] really has nothing to do with

[3:54:01] state property ownership and

[3:54:03] they struck it down. So I think

[3:54:04] the lesson that Oklahoma takes

[3:54:06] here is that the

[3:54:09] the purpose of the law that

[3:54:10] we're using we don't want to

[3:54:12] name our own I think based on

[3:54:14] some of the arguments I've

[3:54:16] already said and so we do want

[3:54:18] to defer the question of

[3:54:18] national security foreign

[3:54:20] adversaries to the federal

[3:54:24] government so what we what we

[3:54:26] want to look at here is the

[3:54:29] current language in SB893 which

[3:54:32] the governor signed last May

[3:54:34] so here's what a foreign

[3:54:35] adversary is in that law it's

[3:54:40] countries designated by the

[3:54:42] secret of state as hostile or as

[3:54:44] countries of particular concern

[3:54:46] and the problem is that the

[3:54:48] country of particular concern is

[3:54:50] principally a religious freedom

[3:54:53] designation so this is

[3:54:54] countries that the secretary of

[3:54:56] state identifies as practicing

[3:54:58] religious intolerance it was

[3:55:01] not created as some sort of

[3:55:02] national security investment

[3:55:03] classification

[3:55:07] and it matters the list

[3:55:09] that it can include countries

[3:55:10] for you know strictly

[3:55:12] religious freedom questions

[3:55:14] I'll just say currently Saudi

[3:55:16] Arabia and Nigeria are on that

[3:55:18] list and so if the law were

[3:55:20] enacted it would it would

[3:55:21] implicate any kind of investment

[3:55:24] from from those countries but

[3:55:26] also that the religious freedom

[3:55:28] is informed by a committee that

[3:55:31] meets regularly and they have

[3:55:32] put on their list of

[3:55:33] recommendations which the secret

[3:55:33] of state

[3:55:36] may or may not take that we

[3:55:38] should also add India andvietnam

[3:55:40] to that list and that gets us

[3:55:42] pretty far beyond the sort of

[3:55:44] bad guy country foreign

[3:55:47] adversary countries that we

[3:55:49] typically think of when we

[3:55:50] invoke national security

[3:55:51] concerns

[3:55:53] so

[3:55:56] there is a better fit in federal

[3:55:58] law and existing federal law the

[3:56:00] department of Commerce maintains

[3:56:01] a foreign adversary designation.

[3:56:04] I'll read the site it's 1f

[3:56:10] CFr791.4 and that that list

[3:56:14] will include the

[3:56:16] people's Republic of China, Cuba

[3:56:22] Iran, North Korea, Russia and

[3:56:24] Venezuela but under the Maduro

[3:56:28] regime so that list is I

[3:56:30] think much more much tighter

[3:56:32] and much closer to the concerns

[3:56:34] that we have expressed with

[3:56:36] regard to vulnerabilities of

[3:56:39] being close to a sensitive sites

[3:56:40] so

[3:56:44] the suggestion or the

[3:56:45] recommendation of the department

[3:56:47] of commerce is that we just

[3:56:50] switch out those designations

[3:56:52] take out the CPC language and

[3:56:54] find one that better matches and

[3:56:55] that one is the foreign

[3:56:56] adversary. I'll just say that

[3:56:58] the department of commerce, the

[3:57:00] secret of commerce makes these

[3:57:02] designation and it's typically

[3:57:06] under a protection of of data

[3:57:09] and personal information but

[3:57:10] it is

[3:57:12] much closer I think

[3:57:14] especially since those are

[3:57:15] considered critical

[3:57:16] infrastructure by the federal

[3:57:18] government so that's our

[3:57:21] principal recommendation

[3:57:23] today. I I wanna throw in one

[3:57:24] other item just sort of based on

[3:57:27] our experience in commerce

[3:57:30] we do get questions regularly

[3:57:33] from our partner economic

[3:57:35] development offices or EDOs

[3:57:36] as well as from Oklahoma

[3:57:38] citizens with regard to

[3:57:39] companies that are looking to

[3:57:40] invest in

[3:57:43] Oklahoma and so

[3:57:47] what we've realized is that

[3:57:49] we we would have to let even if

[3:57:50] you had a foreign adversary

[3:57:52] investment you would have to let

[3:57:54] that proceed until we hit a

[3:57:55] certain point where the law

[3:57:58] would get triggered and we've

[3:58:00] had instances where a

[3:58:02] purchaser knew that they were

[3:58:03] dealing with a foreign adversary

[3:58:04] and yet they proceeded anyway

[3:58:06] and they said well show us what

[3:58:08] state incentives that we should

[3:58:09] get and so we realize there

[3:58:11] really isn't a prohibition or an

[3:58:12] ineligibility for state

[3:58:13] incentives in the law so it is

[3:58:17] something that we raise the

[3:58:18] that you all may want to

[3:58:20] examine of do you want to create

[3:58:24] an ineligibility in that law

[3:58:26] so I think the way the way we've

[3:58:28] described it is that an

[3:58:31] applicant for economic

[3:58:34] development incentives should be

[3:58:36] required to disclose relevant

[3:58:38] beneficial ownership and attest

[3:58:40] to compliance with this law

[3:58:44] and this would be an

[3:58:46] eligibility decision not any

[3:58:47] legal determination which you

[3:58:48] know the law there's another

[3:58:50] section with regard to the

[3:58:52] attorney general's role in

[3:58:54] and the attorney general can

[3:58:56] make whatever judicial

[3:58:57] actions they want to take but

[3:58:58] this would just be an

[3:59:02] administrative fix for to

[3:59:04] sync up SB893 with our

[3:59:08] economic incentives I think

[3:59:10] what we want to do here is just

[3:59:11] protect our

[3:59:14] communities from getting too far

[3:59:16] down making down the road on

[3:59:18] a project making some investment

[3:59:21] spending capital at for a

[3:59:23] project that couldn't come to

[3:59:26] fruition anyway due to this

[3:59:28] prohibition and if you have an

[3:59:32] applicant that you know

[3:59:34] does not disclose this or hides

[3:59:36] this material fact they're

[3:59:37] they're and they have received a

[3:59:39] benefit obviously there ought to

[3:59:40] be some repercussion of a

[3:59:41] suspension

[3:59:44] or clawback of the provisions.

[3:59:47] So just to say what what we

[3:59:49] we don't want to do is set up

[3:59:51] a like commerce department

[3:59:54] national security check or

[3:59:55] anything like that we

[4:00:00] we think that umytheus is the

[4:00:02] one that has access to

[4:00:04] intelligence and diplomatic

[4:00:05] reporting and military knowledge

[4:00:08] not stuff that the that a state

[4:00:09] government typically works in we

[4:00:11] we deal with the questions of

[4:00:14] property ownership but we do

[4:00:17] need enough capability to

[4:00:18] understand beneficial

[4:00:21] ownership reco any kind of

[4:00:24] foreign adversary link and so

[4:00:25] this is a practical function of

[4:00:25] economic development that

[4:00:28] I think is developing and so

[4:00:30] it's interesting that we're in

[4:00:32] this moment of with this

[4:00:35] piece of legislation so

[4:00:39] we want communities,

[4:00:40] companies, citizens to be able

[4:00:42] to call us and for us to be able

[4:00:44] to give them advice on this and

[4:00:48] we have done that and we stand

[4:00:51] ready to do that if they are

[4:00:52] think that they are dealing with

[4:00:54] a foreign adversary so

[4:00:59] I'll just say section 3 again

[4:01:00] the agricultural section does

[4:01:01] have a carve out

[4:01:06] for if you have had a yus

[4:01:08] agreement section4 doesn't have

[4:01:11] a carve out so you know the

[4:01:12] conceivably there could be a

[4:01:14] company that isn't agricultural

[4:01:18] that employees there there

[4:01:20] is PRC investment in

[4:01:24] Oklahoma. I would guess

[4:01:26] just based on scans of of

[4:01:28] businesses that that's not more

[4:01:30] than about500 and it's not to

[4:01:31] say that those jobs would

[4:01:31] immediately be

[4:01:34] lost but it might involve a

[4:01:36] company needed to make a a

[4:01:39] divestment decision but if

[4:01:40] one of those companies had

[4:01:44] aifius agreement or had been

[4:01:46] reviewed by yeus and approved

[4:01:48] there currently is no they would

[4:01:51] still be in violation of SB893

[4:01:54] so something to consider but it

[4:01:55] is not the

[4:01:57] it's not a formal

[4:02:00] recommendation on our part so we

[4:02:01] appreciate that you've done the

[4:02:02] major policy work here by

[4:02:04] deciding about foreign adversary

[4:02:07] ownership we just wanted to

[4:02:10] offer up this act of of

[4:02:12] making a a little bit more

[4:02:13] precise a little bit closer to

[4:02:15] the purposes and so

[4:02:18] we think that this these changes

[4:02:20] would preserve Oklahoma's

[4:02:22] ability to recruit legitimate

[4:02:24] foreign investment while giving

[4:02:26] the state a clearer and more

[4:02:27] defensible framework for dealing

[4:02:30] with investment tied to

[4:02:32] designated foreign adversaries.

[4:02:33] thank you very much for your

[4:02:33] attention. I'll turn it back

[4:02:35] hm

[4:02:38] and we'll add it back to send

[4:02:40] it back to Jennifer thank you

[4:02:41] and I wanted to share that

[4:02:42] we've been speaking with Mark

[4:02:44] and his team has been speaking

[4:02:45] with the attorney general as

[4:02:46] well as with Brady so that

[4:02:48] we've been in contact with this

[4:02:50] and they're aware of it they are

[4:02:52] in support of this interim

[4:02:54] study and so just to make it

[4:02:56] really clear and easy we're

[4:02:59] asking for the current language

[4:03:02] to be amended on page 10 it has

[4:03:04] that actual yep the offer of

[4:03:05] what that is and so if

[4:03:08] there's any more questions

[4:03:10] we'll hand it over to Senator

[4:03:11] Peterson so thank you

[4:03:16] will there be questions

[4:03:21] I don't have any questions

[4:03:24] right now I know that I will

[4:03:25] obviously looking through this

[4:03:26] thank you for bringing this

[4:03:29] Senator Peterson I think this is

[4:03:30] a really important conversation

[4:03:31] that we do need to have

[4:03:36] so thank you if there's

[4:03:37] anything else you can land the

[4:03:38] plane or

[4:03:40] offer closing comments. would

[4:03:41] you mind turning your yep

[4:03:44] perfect all right thank you the

[4:03:46] two bills that were considered

[4:03:49] was Senate Bill223 and and

[4:03:52] senate bill 893 they were

[4:03:54] enacted in at different times

[4:03:58] and so the the last bill 893 was

[4:03:59] the one that seemed like really

[4:04:00] was pretty encompassing so this

[4:04:02] brought some special attention

[4:04:04] to to what we really need to do

[4:04:06] here so with that being said

[4:04:08] if there are no questions

[4:04:09] that's the presentation that we

[4:04:09] had planned for the day thank

[4:04:10] you.

[4:04:14] thank you everyone we have I

[4:04:16] think another meeting here in a

[4:04:17] couple of weeks we'll be getting

[4:04:20] that agenda item out probably

[4:04:22] this week or next week but

[4:04:24] thank you for coming and you

[4:04:26] have something else to again

[4:04:28] thank you for the commerce team

[4:04:30] for putting this all together

[4:04:32] it's was

[4:04:32] they can say

[4:04:34] considered it pretty

[4:04:38] in a in a small list here of ask

[4:04:40] I think into one main ask and I

[4:04:42] think it's pretty simple as so

[4:04:43] anyway thank you for your work

[4:04:46] yeah you guys did a great job of

[4:04:47] course I always enjoy working

[4:04:48] with you and seeing you also

[4:04:50] with that we are adjourned

[4:04:51] for today. thank you everybody

Economic Development, Workforce and Tourism 2ND REVISED

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