[0:02] but I want to thank everybody

[0:04] for being here this morning. I see a

[0:05] lot of brass and a lot of

[0:07] dear friends and stuff and

[0:08] uh uh this

[0:09] is I'm excited

[0:11] about this because it's

[0:13] passion, I mean,

[0:14] safety, especially in rural

[0:15] Oklahoma

[0:16] and it's,

[0:18] uh, it's

[0:19] just something we just

[0:21] need

[0:23] interim studies are great because

[0:24] we bring this stuff to

[0:26] a lot that a lot of people don't

[0:27] understand.

[0:29] Anyhow, I wanna thank

[0:31] Representative Rey

[0:32] for leaving Nashville to

[0:33] make you here on time today. So,

[0:35] uh, but, uh,

[0:36] anyhow, he

[0:38] is, he's a dear

[0:39] friend, dear brother, just like

[0:41] most people. But, um,

[0:42] thank y'all. And like I said,

[0:43] uh, Uh,

[0:45] I'm gonna turn it over to him

[0:47] and if there's got any

[0:48] questions, direct them to him

[0:50] and if I see somebody that

[0:51] does it or whatever,

[0:53] but, um,

[0:54] uh and

[0:55] a few other state reps,

[0:56] so it'd be the state reps

[0:58] asking questions. So

[1:00] all righty, but I'm gonna turn

[1:01] it over to you.

[1:03] Representative, thank

[1:04] you. >> Thank

[1:05] you Chairman Dempsey

[1:07] and again

[1:09] I know this is

[1:10] an interesting challenge

[1:11] statewide. Those of

[1:13] us that represent rural

[1:14] areas have been

[1:16] dealing with this for

[1:17] quite some time.

[1:19] Uh, I have had

[1:20] some conversation obviously

[1:22] with folks in the five counties

[1:23] that I represent and

[1:24] I

[1:26] think I got a pretty good handle

[1:27] on the challenges that we have

[1:29] out there, but I thought it was

[1:30] important to have the

[1:32] conversation statewide.

[1:33] And look at

[1:35] the funding mechanisms that

[1:36] we have, the

[1:38] challenges that we're facing

[1:39] obviously

[1:40] with

[1:42] To say escalated costs is

[1:44] an understatement,

[1:45] obviously,

[1:46] and many

[1:47] municipalities and

[1:49] local county governments

[1:50] and things like that

[1:52] are having a hard time

[1:54] meeting the challenge.

[1:56] It has created a market

[1:58] opportunity for

[1:59] a private

[2:01] enterprise to get involved, and

[2:02] I know that that

[2:04] is

[2:05] very

[2:06] Uh, very

[2:08] popular in a lot of

[2:09] parts of the state. So,

[2:11] uh, with that, I'm

[2:12] just, before I get to

[2:13] introducing the speakers

[2:15] today, uh,

[2:16] I do want

[2:17] to

[2:20] Bring my my

[2:21] perspective just real

[2:22] quickly,

[2:23] uh,

[2:26] The members around the table

[2:28] are

[2:28] all

[2:31] Mature

[2:32] and I'm being polite there,

[2:34] but I, I, I

[2:34] certainly

[2:36] remember growing

[2:38] up in my

[2:39] hometown when the

[2:40] ambulance was parked at the

[2:42] funeral home and

[2:43] either the ambulance or the hearse

[2:45] went out and

[2:46] that's the way that that

[2:48] was managed for a long

[2:50] time. Uh,

[2:51] in in the 70s, whenever the

[2:53] 522

[2:54] districts

[2:55] started forming

[2:57] and funding,

[2:58] uh, cities

[3:00] in a lot of cases took that

[3:01] over and,

[3:02] and, you know, actually manned

[3:04] it with utilities,

[3:05] public works

[3:07] employees that got

[3:08] their got their

[3:10] health and emergency training

[3:11] and things to do that.

[3:13] We added

[3:15] Onca time, which was an

[3:17] extra income for some of

[3:18] those folks around whenever we

[3:20] paid people to be on

[3:21] time for basic

[3:22] service and just in

[3:24] time we have we

[3:25] have transformed and

[3:27] enhanced and

[3:28] added to additional

[3:30] service to where, you know

[3:32] not only do we pay people

[3:33] to be ready for a call,

[3:35] uh, we we pay them

[3:37] 24/7

[3:39] for you know, even

[3:40] enhanced service and

[3:42] I know

[3:42] that.

[3:45] A lot of counties

[3:46] have countywide services.

[3:48] I have that

[3:49] in my area. I

[3:51] have A

[3:52] single provider

[3:54] for the county and right

[3:55] next door, I have a

[3:57] county with

[3:58] 4 districts

[4:00] and uh some of

[4:02] them are doing better than others,

[4:03] but everybody sees the

[4:05] the trend.

[4:06] that is concerning them

[4:08] for the future. So with

[4:09] that, I would like

[4:11] to get into the

[4:12] speakers and I, I greatly

[4:14] appreciate my friend Bobby

[4:15] Stem here who

[4:17] represents the Oklahoma

[4:19] nonprofit EMS

[4:20] services that are here and and

[4:22] encouraged me

[4:23] to to have this

[4:25] study and has helped

[4:26] me get a handle on

[4:28] the challenges that he

[4:30] sees and his folks

[4:31] see that so when we get

[4:33] into

[4:34] The speakers

[4:35] here, uh,

[4:36] first, since I

[4:37] didn't

[4:41] Have it handy. Let me pull it

[4:43] up real quickly

[4:44] here.

[4:46] Our very, our very first

[4:48] speaker

[4:49] today, Marie Schel

[4:50] is with the

[4:52] Oklahoma Tax Commission, the

[4:53] director of tax

[4:55] policy research,

[4:56] uh, hopefully will, will

[4:58] let us, help

[4:59] us understand

[5:01] how these districts

[5:03] are funded

[5:04] and, uh,

[5:05] the way things have worked

[5:07] historically in this

[5:08] state. So

[5:09] we will hear

[5:11] from her and

[5:13] and uh

[5:14] establish the the financial

[5:16] challenges here before we get

[5:17] into the operations talk.

[5:19] So Marie,

[5:21] if you would speak from the

[5:22] podium or wherever you're comfortable

[5:24] seated is fine what you

[5:25] bet, whatever you're comfortable

[5:27] with. I greatly appreciate

[5:28] your time for being

[5:30] here today and we'll turn it over

[5:31] to you.

[5:33] >> Well, thank you very much. I appreciate

[5:35] it and thank you to the chairman and

[5:36] members of the committee for allowing me

[5:38] to be here today.

[5:39] Um, I'm gonna give kind of

[5:41] an overview of the,

[5:42] well, this is really loud,

[5:44] the history of where

[5:45] 522 funding came

[5:46] from. Um, and

[5:48] so if you have any questions along the way,

[5:49] please let me know, stop me

[5:51] throughout or afterwards, whatever

[5:53] that works for me.

[5:55] see if I can figure this out.

[5:57] OK, so going back

[5:58] to the background and history

[6:00] of where 522

[6:01] funding came from, it

[6:02] all started in 1976

[6:04] with state question 522,

[6:06] which is where the term 522

[6:08] funding came from,

[6:09] and that was passed by

[6:11] voters and it allowed the rural

[6:12] and local communities to

[6:14] establish these EMS

[6:15] districts. And

[6:17] so the passage of

[6:18] state question 522

[6:20] put in Article 10

[6:21] section 9C

[6:23] which gives the

[6:24] outline of how all of this

[6:26] works. And so it's

[6:27] very detailed on the,

[6:29] how the districts are formed,

[6:31] how many levy or how

[6:32] many mills they can levy

[6:35] for the operations,

[6:36] additional levies for a sinking

[6:38] fund. Um,

[6:39] it specifies that the levy

[6:41] will apply to all taxable

[6:42] property within the district,

[6:44] whether it's real or

[6:45] personal. And then

[6:46] it'll be in addition to any

[6:48] other property tax

[6:49] levies.

[6:50] And then there's also an Oklahoma

[6:52] statute that

[6:53] pertains to this, and that's in

[6:55] Title 19,

[6:57] section

[6:57] 1710.1.

[6:59] It's very

[7:01] it um specifies

[7:02] that the use of those

[7:04] funds is for the

[7:05] administration of the EMS districts.

[7:07] And it also states that

[7:09] the district can operate its own

[7:11] service or it can

[7:12] contract that out. So

[7:14] those are gonna be your

[7:15] statutory and constitutional

[7:17] provisions that you'll look to if

[7:18] you want more information about

[7:19] this.

[7:23] So a little more of the

[7:24] process. So to establish

[7:26] an EMS district

[7:27] at the beginning, the

[7:29] voters have to vote that in

[7:31] and approve whatever levy

[7:32] it is. And so the constitution

[7:34] provides that the districts

[7:35] can be

[7:37] county

[7:38] boundaries, they can be

[7:40] part of a county, they can be all

[7:41] of the county, they

[7:43] can span multiple

[7:44] counties. It just depends on however

[7:45] it's set up. And so that'll

[7:47] be put forth to the voters

[7:48] at the beginning. And then

[7:50] that same vote will

[7:51] approve whatever levy that

[7:53] they want to do. and the constitution

[7:55] says for the

[7:56] operations it could be up to

[7:57] 3 for

[7:58] that. And then there's

[7:59] another vote

[8:01] that they could have to do an

[8:02] additional mill.

[8:04] Up to 3. So you

[8:05] could actually have a total of 6

[8:07] mills for EMS

[8:08] funding. Typically, it

[8:10] starts with 3.

[8:11] Voters would have to approve an

[8:12] additional 3 if

[8:14] they so chose, and that

[8:15] would be for the sinking fund

[8:17] to get vehicles, equipment,

[8:18] facilities, that sort of

[8:19] thing.

[8:21] And so if voters were to

[8:22] approve that,

[8:24] then an EMS

[8:25] district board is set

[8:27] up by whatever

[8:28] local jurisdiction, say it's

[8:30] your county

[8:31] commissioners or your city

[8:33] council would set up an EMS

[8:34] district board to

[8:36] govern that EMS

[8:37] district. And so

[8:39] they would, once the voters approve

[8:40] a certain levy amount,

[8:42] that EMS district

[8:43] board then formally

[8:45] sets that levy and

[8:46] sends it over to the county clerk.

[8:48] They will then certify

[8:49] it. That then goes

[8:51] to the county assessor

[8:52] who applies it to your property

[8:54] evaluation.

[8:55] Which then goes to the county treasurer

[8:57] who sends out your annual

[8:59] property tax bills and they're

[9:00] the ones that actually collect that

[9:02] funding and send it

[9:03] to the EMS district for

[9:05] distribution and however they use it.

[9:06] So that's how the process kind of works to

[9:08] actually fund these EMS

[9:10] districts.

[9:12] Yes, >> if you if you don't

[9:14] mind just

[9:15] because

[9:16] recently

[9:17] uh Hennessy

[9:19] has requested

[9:21] and voted to set up their

[9:22] own district

[9:24] and it is

[9:25] by school district

[9:27] and I know that many of them

[9:28] are by school district

[9:30] uh.

[9:32] When your school district gets into

[9:34] multiple counties,

[9:36] uh,

[9:38] In, in this particular case,

[9:40] I guess my question is there, there's

[9:41] there's only a, a

[9:43] very, very small

[9:45] number of folks that

[9:46] are in an outlying county

[9:48] that were omitted from

[9:50] the original question and

[9:51] so they're going to have to

[9:52] have

[9:53] a,

[9:55] additional vote, I

[9:56] believe, for that particular,

[9:58] uh, section

[10:00] of the neighboring county

[10:01] in the school

[10:02] district.

[10:04] If that doesn't pass

[10:06] by those handful of voters

[10:07] there,

[10:08] then they can

[10:10] continue to

[10:11] form the district

[10:12] without that portion of

[10:14] the county. Is that >> correct?

[10:16] Yes, I believe

[10:17] so. >> All right, thank

[10:18] >> you.

[10:21] On it is when

[10:23] they do these votes for the

[10:24] county, is it

[10:26] just for EMS or is it

[10:27] like for all like

[10:29] volunteer fire departments and

[10:30] everything involved in this?

[10:32] >> Well, when they do this vote

[10:33] specifically, it's for the EMS

[10:35] district levy

[10:36] and to form that district. I think

[10:38] if there was an additional like

[10:39] fire tax or

[10:41] anything like that, it'd be an additional

[10:42] vote. or I guess if they

[10:43] combined it, I don't know how that

[10:45] works exactly.

[10:47] >> Can, can I assume.

[10:48] Today in talking about

[10:50] this EMS

[10:51] district for our

[10:53] purpose here this morning

[10:54] we're just talking about ambulance

[10:56] service, >> correct? Yes,

[10:57] that's what I'm talking about it's just

[10:58] EMS.

[11:01] >> We've got a couple of a couple of

[11:02] questions for you,

[11:03] um.

[11:05] When, when you're talking about this,

[11:07] this vote and this levy,

[11:08] you're, you're going back to

[11:10] the landowners, right?

[11:11] as the ones that are

[11:13] going to pay the bill, is

[11:14] that correct? now is that in

[11:16] the constitution or

[11:18] is that something that instead of

[11:19] doing a ad valorum

[11:21] we could do a sales

[11:22] tax? >> There is

[11:23] a statute about sales tax, and

[11:25] I have a slide at the very end

[11:26] about that, uh, but this

[11:28] one is talking about property

[11:29] tax. This 522

[11:31] funding is a property tax

[11:32] and the voters

[11:34] or the property owners that

[11:35] live within whatever district

[11:37] boundaries they're doing are

[11:38] are the ones that would vote for it.

[11:40] >> But you, it is,

[11:42] it is in the Constitution

[11:43] that we can do a sales

[11:45] tax basically,

[11:46] basically for the same thing. is that

[11:47] >> correct? There's a statute that says

[11:49] we can do the >> statute says,

[11:50] OK, you mentioned

[11:52] something. I don't know if it's going to be you

[11:53] or somebody else, but

[11:55] when, uh,

[11:56] Rep Debrinski was talking about,

[11:58] you know, the, the county

[12:00] voting and certain people

[12:01] not, not in that

[12:02] vote. Um,

[12:04] as far as the ambulance service, and

[12:06] this may not be something for

[12:07] you, but an ambulance

[12:09] service can't turn

[12:10] down a call for

[12:11] service, is that correct? or do

[12:13] you even, >> I don't

[12:14] know,

[12:16] >> I'll get that question out to somebody else.

[12:17] Thank

[12:18] you.

[12:21] >> Alright.

[12:24] So the next slide I have kind

[12:25] of discusses more about the

[12:27] levy itself,

[12:29] and so, and this may be very

[12:30] basic, but

[12:31] I actually did not know what a

[12:33] mill is

[12:34] specifically, and so I

[12:35] put up here the mill is

[12:37] $1 of tax for every

[12:38] $1000 of a

[12:40] property's assessed value.

[12:42] so that's actually the definition

[12:43] and In the

[12:45] Constitution, it sets out that

[12:46] there's a max of 3

[12:47] mills for the operation. So

[12:49] 3 mils would then be

[12:50] 0.003

[12:52] for your calculation or

[12:53] 0.3%.

[12:55] So, just some background on

[12:56] that. And like I

[12:57] said before, there is a

[12:59] max that can be

[13:00] levied. And for the

[13:01] just operations, the initial

[13:03] vote, it can be up to 3

[13:04] and then they can do an additional

[13:06] up to 3. It doesn't have to

[13:07] be 3,

[13:09] for a sinking fund

[13:11] for a total of 6, it could be. I don't

[13:12] think any of them currently

[13:14] have a total of 6, but I

[13:15] have a slide kind of showing

[13:17] the different,

[13:18] different ones they

[13:19] have.

[13:21] And so what does this mean for property

[13:23] owners? I want to give an example of

[13:25] how this would actually

[13:26] affect your

[13:27] property tax or how

[13:29] it would be calculated based on your

[13:30] properties. So if you had a

[13:32] fair market value of

[13:33] $100,000 for your house,

[13:35] and this example shows with a

[13:36] exemption and without,

[13:38] just to give an example,

[13:39] um, and so each county has

[13:41] a different assessment

[13:43] ratio. It's between 10

[13:44] and 15% depending on

[13:46] your county. In my

[13:47] example, I picked 11%,

[13:49] and so your

[13:50] assessment ratio is going to be

[13:52] applied to your fair market value

[13:53] of your home.

[13:55] And that will give you in

[13:56] this example,

[13:57] $11,000. And then

[13:59] you would subtract the most

[14:00] we any exemptions you

[14:02] had. So the most common is your

[14:04] exemption. And so if you

[14:05] had that, you would subtract

[14:07] $1000 from your assessed

[14:08] value, giving you

[14:09] $10,000

[14:11] in this example.

[14:12] And so your EMS

[14:14] district tax is going to be

[14:15] applied to whatever your

[14:16] net taxable assessed

[14:18] value is. And so then you

[14:19] would apply that 0.003

[14:21] calculation.

[14:23] And for a $100,000 fair

[14:25] market value house, you would have a

[14:26] $33 tax if

[14:28] you did not have the

[14:29] exemption or $30

[14:31] if you did. So, it

[14:32] just gives you an example of how much that

[14:34] actually comes out to

[14:35] be. There is a

[14:36] caveat to

[14:38] DAV exemptions. Somebody

[14:39] asked me this in

[14:41] the past.

[14:42] Situation and so I want

[14:44] to just point it out.

[14:45] sometimes you have 100% disabled

[14:47] veterans in your counties,

[14:49] they don't pay any property tax,

[14:50] they're fully exempt.

[14:51] However, they would still

[14:53] need to pay the EMS

[14:54] district tax or if there's any

[14:56] other special district tax, they're still

[14:58] responsible for that,

[14:59] just for your

[15:00] information.

[15:03] OK, so now getting into some

[15:04] data. This is

[15:06] a map of Oklahoma.

[15:08] let's make sure I brought my

[15:08] counties.

[15:10] it is. I'm pretty sure

[15:11] I did actually print out the counties so in

[15:13] case somebody asked me what they are, I

[15:14] can figure it out.

[15:16] Um, so in this map

[15:17] it shows

[15:20] The EMS districts

[15:21] that cover that county.

[15:23] So like I said before, not

[15:24] all EMS districts

[15:26] are the extent of the county

[15:27] boundary lines,

[15:29] but this map

[15:30] shows,

[15:32] If a county has one

[15:33] EMS district, it's going to be

[15:34] in that lightest orange.

[15:36] The white is none. So there are a

[15:38] few counties that don't have an actual

[15:39] EMS district. doesn't

[15:40] mean they don't have EMS. Their

[15:42] county may fund it differently.

[15:44] This just means these counties

[15:45] actually have an EMS district

[15:47] that's been voted by the

[15:48] people. And as your

[15:50] orange gets darker.

[15:51] It means that county

[15:53] has more EMS districts

[15:54] that cover it. It doesn't

[15:56] mean those districts overlap.

[15:57] It just means that that county has

[15:59] more than one that operates

[16:00] within that county, if that makes

[16:02] >> sense. for

[16:03] transparency purposes

[16:05] here, Representative

[16:06] Debrinski represents

[16:08] Blaine and Dewey

[16:09] counties up there

[16:11] along with that's

[16:12] the black or close to

[16:14] black, uh,

[16:15] along with Kingfisher, Woodward,

[16:17] and Garfield, so.

[16:18] I, I have a little diversity

[16:20] out there among my

[16:22] folks. >> There's quite a few in

[16:23] there. >> That's, that's

[16:25] my question. How come

[16:26] your district is so dark

[16:28] because there's >> so many

[16:29] districts, >> so

[16:30] many what

[16:31] districts

[16:33] population.

[16:39] >> I've, I've got more

[16:40] of the

[16:42] sparsely populated

[16:43] counties, but I do

[16:45] have quite the number

[16:46] of E ems districts

[16:48] out there, >> even

[16:49] comparing to Oklahoma's counties.

[16:51] So I mean

[16:53] up in Tulsa. I, I

[16:54] just,

[16:56] >> so Oklahoma,

[16:57] Oklahoma

[16:58] County.

[17:00] Has

[17:01] one

[17:03] district countywide have does not have an EMS district

[17:05] at all. correct?

[17:06] >> I don't know if this has a laser at the

[17:08] end.

[17:09] >> The, the key up

[17:10] there, uh, your, your

[17:12] scale 11 through

[17:13] 5 there, it's

[17:15] a little hard to see,

[17:16] but obviously the >> lighter,

[17:18] I'm getting it, I mean

[17:20] >> the ones in white do not have any

[17:21] EMS districts and so your square

[17:23] right in the middle is Oklahoma

[17:25] County. That has nothing >> to do

[17:26] with with populations.

[17:28] That's just the number of

[17:29] districts per >> county. I

[17:31] mean, it's crazy for Pittsburgh

[17:32] County. I mean,

[17:34] especially with Highway 69 >> going

[17:35] through.

[17:39] And just a couple of numbers for

[17:40] your reference. there's 67

[17:42] total EMS districts.

[17:43] I don't have a map that shows

[17:45] what they cover.

[17:46] Um, we don't collect that at tax

[17:47] commission, so I wasn't able to provide

[17:49] that. Um, there are

[17:50] 38

[17:51] county-based E ems

[17:53] so when I look at them, they say

[17:54] likellis.

[17:55] Tulsa

[17:57] County EMS and then there's

[17:58] 20 city-based E

[18:00] ems districts, meaning the name

[18:01] indicated a city. I don't know

[18:03] if that's the boundary or not, but that's

[18:04] just, it was a city-based

[18:06] EMS district and

[18:08] then 11 of the districts

[18:09] as a whole cover more than

[18:11] one county.

[18:13] So

[18:16] >> Can you yes Can

[18:18] you define

[18:20] the district? I mean,

[18:21] you've got Adair County as

[18:22] having no

[18:23] district, but the

[18:25] commissioners have set up we

[18:27] do have an ambulance service in

[18:28] Adair County that

[18:29] we've had for the last

[18:31] 4 or 5 years.

[18:33] >> It may be funded by your

[18:34] county, not an EMS

[18:36] district specifically.

[18:38] >> Yes, OK, OK, yes, it is

[18:39] funded by the county and Cherokee Nation.

[18:41] >> Thank you and that could be why. same with Oklahoma

[18:42] County. they have EMS

[18:44] and ambulance services.

[18:45] It's just not funded through

[18:47] this mechanism.

[18:49] >> And with, with your designations,

[18:51] they're saying there are 38

[18:53] county

[18:54] districts.

[18:55] By by title >> by

[18:57] title >> you will

[18:58] you will see, you will see Blaine,

[19:00] you will see Blaine County

[19:01] EMS and then there's

[19:03] Okeen

[19:04] Canton and

[19:05] Gary

[19:06] so.

[19:09] If, if, if a,

[19:10] if the title says it's a county,

[19:12] you would assume

[19:13] that it's covering the county, but that's

[19:15] not always the >> case. I would assume

[19:17] so, but I don't have like the,

[19:18] the boundary map or

[19:20] anything for that. I'm just showing by

[19:21] county which ones

[19:23] have that certain number of EMS

[19:24] districts.

[19:28] Here are some numbers of

[19:30] total collections over the

[19:31] entire state and this

[19:32] is estimated information. I

[19:34] will caveat with that. So whenever

[19:36] Oklahoma Tax Commission

[19:37] collects the

[19:39] information from the counties, it is

[19:40] prior to the actual

[19:42] tax collections I learned

[19:44] this, um, and so

[19:45] these are just estimated what

[19:46] they think. they will collect,

[19:48] it is not actual

[19:49] collections. To get that we would have to

[19:51] talk to each different county to figure that

[19:52] out. So just want to caveat

[19:54] that it could vary

[19:56] a little bit if you went to

[19:57] each county and found out their

[19:59] information, but these are general

[20:01] estimated tax collections over

[20:02] the past 5 years.

[20:04] Um, just want to show it's been

[20:05] increasing.

[20:08] So in case you're interested, went

[20:09] from about 27.3

[20:11] million in 2020

[20:13] for the entire state up to

[20:14] about

[20:14] 37.2.

[20:17] And that is over the past 5

[20:19] years.

[20:20] Whereas this map, so

[20:22] this is a map

[20:23] to show

[20:25] the actual levee,

[20:27] so what mills is

[20:28] located in each

[20:29] county. Um,

[20:31] like I said, each district may

[20:32] cover more than one, but this

[20:34] is the average mills

[20:36] levied in each county

[20:37] over the past two years. this

[20:39] is 25 and

[20:40] 26.

[20:42] And so you can see the

[20:43] ones in white, again, don't

[20:45] have an E ems district.

[20:46] And then as your greens get

[20:48] darker, the mill

[20:49] levy gets higher. And

[20:51] so the ones that are in the lightest

[20:52] green have under 3

[20:54] mills. So they probably only

[20:55] have that operating

[20:56] fund,

[20:57] um,

[20:59] The first vote you can have where

[21:01] it's up to 3. So

[21:02] for whatever reason, they didn't put it

[21:04] all the way to 3. And

[21:05] then there's in the next, it's

[21:07] 3 to 3.1,

[21:09] and then the next darkest green is

[21:10] 3.26

[21:12] to 3.35,

[21:14] and then the very darkest green

[21:15] is over 3.5

[21:16] mils.

[21:18] So it gives you an idea of where

[21:20] the levies are the highest,

[21:21] which is interesting when you compare

[21:23] it to our my next

[21:24] map

[21:26] is the actual collections per

[21:27] county and you can

[21:29] see the darkest colors of

[21:30] each do not

[21:31] coincide.

[21:33] So your highest levies

[21:34] don't actually collect the

[21:35] most

[21:36] tax, and that could

[21:38] be for a variety of reasons.

[21:40] One of them might be your valuations

[21:41] are higher in certain counties.

[21:43] I'm just looking at southeast Oklahoma,

[21:45] you've got all the broken

[21:46] bow cabins, higher

[21:48] valuation, so their

[21:49] tax is going to be a little bit higher that

[21:51] could contribute.

[21:52] So, this map

[21:54] shows over the past 5

[21:55] years, the average

[21:57] collections by county.

[21:59] Again, it's not by EMS

[22:00] district, this is by

[22:01] county.

[22:04] And there's 2 counties

[22:06] that have asterisks.

[22:07] Let me see, Grant

[22:08] County

[22:10] and

[22:12] You think I know this, Lincoln

[22:13] County, and that's only for

[22:15] 2025 because they

[22:16] were most recently put in in

[22:17] 2025.

[22:19] So those two is just

[22:21] based on 2025

[22:22] data.

[22:25] >> Got a question here

[22:27] This is a lot of good

[22:28] information. Can you email

[22:30] that to us?

[22:32] if you would, I'd really appreciate it because I'd

[22:33] like to get it back to to our

[22:35] county. thank

[22:36] you.

[22:39] >> And the last slide I have

[22:41] kind of going back to what you were

[22:42] talking about, um, with

[22:44] the sales tax. So there

[22:45] are 2 additional

[22:47] funding for

[22:48] 520 or 4

[22:50] EMS districts that I was

[22:51] able to find. Um, one

[22:53] is in Title 63,

[22:55] and it's a revolving fund

[22:57] that gets apportionment from

[22:58] tobacco tax.

[23:00] Um, so I looked at the

[23:01] numbers and it gets approximately

[23:02] $1.5 million

[23:04] annually, and I tried to

[23:05] do a little research into how that

[23:07] is disbursed and it looks

[23:08] like the commissioner

[23:10] of health takes

[23:11] applications for that and

[23:13] then divvies it out.

[23:14] However, I don't know how they do it, but that

[23:15] is an, um, another

[23:17] funding source.

[23:19] Yes.

[23:20] OK. Um,

[23:22] and then there's also a

[23:23] sales tax option

[23:24] in Title 68

[23:26] where a county can vote to levy

[23:27] a sales tax not to

[23:29] equal, not to exceed

[23:30] 1% on the gross

[23:31] proceeds, um, that would

[23:33] be used solely for funding

[23:34] EMS.

[23:36] So

[23:38] Those are two additional funding

[23:39] options I wanted to point

[23:40] out.

[23:42] And that is all I have for

[23:43] my presentation.

[23:46] If anyone has any questions,

[23:47] happy to take them, or I can stick

[23:49] around if anything comes

[23:50] up. >> Thank

[23:52] you very much for that

[23:53] presentation. And again, if you would

[23:55] email those to to my office,

[23:56] I will make sure everyone gets

[23:58] them, and I appreciate your

[23:59] working. Uh,

[24:01] with Carla to

[24:02] prepare for this morning, I

[24:04] would just, Mr. Chairman,

[24:05] mention to folks

[24:07] who may be watching

[24:08] this online, particularly

[24:09] our colleagues that,

[24:11] uh, Representatives Kelly

[24:13] and Harden and Dempsey,

[24:15] uh, and

[24:16] Jason, good morning,

[24:18] uh, are, are here if

[24:19] you guys want to

[24:21] text us any

[24:22] questions, uh, we'll be glad

[24:23] to ask them as we go

[24:25] along. So thank

[24:26] you.

[24:29] Shoul we continue, Mr.

[24:30] Chairman?

[24:32] Yes, uh,

[24:33] our next speakers

[24:35] I'm going to have,

[24:36] uh,

[24:38] introduced by

[24:39] Bobby Stem who

[24:41] has helped me prepare for

[24:42] this and, uh, lined

[24:44] up our next couple

[24:45] of speakers today.

[24:47] Again this morning, Bobby

[24:49] is representing the

[24:50] Oklahoma

[24:51] nonprofit EMS

[24:53] system. So Bobby, if you

[24:54] will, thank you for being

[24:55] >> here. Thank you, Mr.

[24:57] Chairman and and

[24:58] representative members of the committee.

[25:00] Uh, my name is Bobby Stem. I

[25:01] represent one Oklahoma's

[25:03] nonprofit EMS.

[25:05] Um, we're list

[25:06] wonderful presentation, by the

[25:07] way, ma'am. super

[25:09] educational, uh, but

[25:10] I do hope too

[25:12] that we, that the

[25:13] numbers aren't

[25:15] what we really leave here with

[25:16] today. It's about

[25:17] lives and quality of

[25:19] lives that I

[25:20] really want to focus

[25:21] on.

[25:23] Now this challenges the

[25:24] funding, but the

[25:25] real issue is how do we take care

[25:27] of our rural Oklahomans

[25:28] in their most critical time

[25:30] of need. This really

[25:31] hit home a few years ago when my

[25:33] mother, who had lived in Creek County in

[25:34] a rural area of Creek

[25:36] County, saved all her life

[25:37] as a school teacher and had 5

[25:38] acres that she really

[25:40] enjoyed taking care of.

[25:42] She got a goat later in life. That was kind of

[25:44] weird to me, but, um,

[25:45] she loved it out there and

[25:47] her neighbour passed from

[25:48] a heart attack and

[25:50] couldn't get, couldn't get somebody there

[25:51] in time. My mom

[25:53] struggled with that for some time and

[25:54] has since moved to Broken Arrow where

[25:56] she can be closer to

[25:57] facilities and I hate that for

[25:58] her. I hate that for that

[26:00] goat because they get along pretty well.

[26:01] Um, and then I

[26:03] started working on

[26:04] this issue and it really kind of hit

[26:06] home with me and as I've

[26:07] continued to learn more about it.

[26:09] So today I'm hoping that

[26:11] Brandy and Brian will talk to you

[26:12] kind of about their service

[26:14] and really what it is we can do

[26:15] as a whole for our

[26:17] emergency services around the state

[26:18] so that they can

[26:19] provide.

[26:21] rural citizens with

[26:23] the help they need at the

[26:24] very scariest time of their life.

[26:26] So thank you for having

[26:27] us. Thank you for allowing me

[26:29] that personal narratives,

[26:30] that personal narrative. And with that,

[26:32] I'd like to, if I could go ahead

[26:33] and introduce Brandy and

[26:35] Brian. if they would go ahead and you

[26:36] guys can come on up here, they'll talk.

[26:38] Brandy we'll talk about

[26:39] Ugalala. Brian will talk

[26:40] about Durant. I'll, I'll

[26:42] let them introduce themselves and tell you their

[26:44] story and thank you very much,

[26:45] Mr. Chairman and Representativebrinski

[26:47] members.

[26:56] >> Good morning. My name is Brandy

[26:58] Pond. I am the

[26:59] executive director for

[27:00] Uligalaa EMS.

[27:02] We're up in the Rock part of

[27:03] Rock we cover the

[27:05] Ulugalaa School District

[27:06] in Rogers County.

[27:08] Um thank you for having

[27:10] us. We appreciate

[27:11] you.

[27:12] Hearing what we have to say.

[27:14] Um, I really just wanted

[27:16] to share more

[27:17] just from the heart, kind of what

[27:19] we do daily.

[27:20] Um, you know, numbers

[27:22] are important, but really like

[27:23] Bobby said, it's definitely

[27:24] about, you know, making

[27:26] sure that the citizens of

[27:27] our community get an ambulance

[27:29] in the time of need when they pick

[27:31] up the phone to

[27:31] call.

[27:33] Um, as you heard,

[27:34] you know, ambulance districts are

[27:36] funded, but

[27:37] really wanted to talk about what those

[27:39] numbers look like, like on the

[27:40] ground level of a one rural

[27:42] ambulance service, which I'll talk

[27:43] specifically about

[27:44] Ulagatawala.

[27:46] Um, we are a

[27:47] 522 district. We do

[27:48] cover a school district, uh,

[27:50] in part of Rogers County.

[27:52] We cover around about

[27:53] 180 square

[27:54] miles.

[27:55] Um, and

[27:57] we run 2 24 hour trucks,

[27:58] so they run 24/7,

[28:00] 365 days a

[28:01] year. Um,

[28:03] we, in 2025,

[28:04] we averaged about 1800

[28:06] calls, um, which

[28:08] you can see and I'll, you can

[28:09] reference this sheet that

[28:11] we have that kind of just talks

[28:12] about, um, different

[28:14] numbers throughout from

[28:15] 2020 to 2025,

[28:17] kind of looking at five-year

[28:18] difference. So you can see

[28:20] our call volume in

[28:21] 2020 was 728

[28:23] calls and last

[28:25] year we were up to 1,879

[28:27] calls, which a lot of that

[28:28] is due to You

[28:30] know, in Rogers County, we're seeing a

[28:31] huge growth um

[28:33] in population because

[28:34] everyone's moving out of Tulsa, out

[28:36] of Owasso, and now

[28:37] up into Rogers

[28:38] County.

[28:40] Um,

[28:42] But, you know, like I said, when someone

[28:43] calls 911, they're not thinking

[28:45] about the millage rates

[28:46] or what it costs to

[28:47] reimburse from, you

[28:49] know, insurance. They

[28:50] simply want to know that an ambulance

[28:52] is going to come.

[28:53] So, you can kind of see as you

[28:55] look at this handout that the funding

[28:57] has not kept pace,

[28:58] um, even though it has

[29:00] increased, um, for

[29:01] us in 2020,

[29:03] our funding from the

[29:04] avalorum tax was

[29:05] $394,000

[29:08] and in 2025, it's

[29:09] 469.

[29:11] Um, that's a 19%

[29:13] increase over five

[29:14] years. Um,

[29:15] our operations to run

[29:17] the operation in 2020

[29:18] was $1.4 million.

[29:20] And in 2025,

[29:22] it was 2.2.

[29:23] This year, our

[29:24] need will be about 2.5

[29:26] million. Um,

[29:27] so that's about a 57%

[29:29] increase over the five

[29:30] years. And

[29:32] again, looking at the call volume in the

[29:33] last 5 years, it's increased over

[29:35] 158%.

[29:37] So the whole point is even though the

[29:38] revenue did rise,

[29:40] it's nowhere near the growth in

[29:41] the demand for

[29:42] the cost of operating

[29:44] the service.

[29:46] Um, looking a little bit more

[29:47] about what it costs to run an ambulance

[29:49] service and, and this is just

[29:51] a very high level,

[29:52] just something that,

[29:54] you know, everybody can see and know

[29:55] what it is like looking in an ambulance,

[29:57] what it cost 5 years

[29:58] ago to today.

[30:00] Um, you know,

[30:01] $175,000

[30:03] and that's probably not even fully

[30:04] stocked. That's just a

[30:05] simple box,

[30:07] you know, with wheels

[30:09] that will drive

[30:10] to today, I mean, it's

[30:11] $325,000

[30:13] to put an ambulance on the road.

[30:15] Um, looking at

[30:16] pay for a paramedic

[30:18] average across the

[30:20] state and even for us

[30:21] in 2020, we were paying

[30:23] $17 an hour,

[30:24] but to keep up with

[30:26] getting staff, um,

[30:27] we have to pay about $26

[30:29] an hour to keep

[30:30] staff, um,

[30:32] qualified staff

[30:34] because we also compete with

[30:35] larger services that,

[30:37] that neighbour us. So

[30:38] to not lose them and be able to

[30:40] have trucks on the road,

[30:41] um, Because if we

[30:43] have to put a truck down, then we're one

[30:44] truck in the district for 180

[30:46] square miles. So

[30:47] 911 call goes

[30:48] out, um, we kind of

[30:50] showed on the back what this looks

[30:51] like. Just a simple

[30:53] graphic. if we're on

[30:54] one end of the district

[30:56] and we have to drive to the north

[30:57] end of our district, that could be 30

[30:59] minutes if we only have

[31:00] one truck because someone

[31:02] called out sick and I can't backfill

[31:04] it or, you

[31:05] know, I don't have enough

[31:06] staff to staff a truck that

[31:08] day. Um,

[31:09] or if we're coming back from,

[31:11] you know, there's situations

[31:12] where both trucks could be on 911

[31:14] calls. there's no one in the

[31:15] district, so they have to call

[31:17] mutual aid from Collinsville

[31:18] or or

[31:19] Claremore,

[31:20] again, increasing those wait

[31:22] times. So

[31:23] as cost increase,

[31:25] as population

[31:26] increases, we're

[31:27] not able to staff enough

[31:29] trucks. I, I can't afford to

[31:30] put up a third truck.

[31:32] In my district.

[31:33] Um, so

[31:35] again, just easy cost to see,

[31:36] but the harder cost to explain is

[31:37] really the cost of being ready

[31:39] and that's the thing that EMS is

[31:41] really missing is

[31:42] the cost of readiness.

[31:44] Um, you know, before the call

[31:46] comes in, ambulance is

[31:47] purchased, the crew is

[31:48] staffed,

[31:50] medications are stocked, equipment's working,

[31:51] there's training, there's current

[31:53] licenser

[31:54] and But we can't

[31:56] wait until someone calls

[31:57] 911 to hire a

[31:58] paramedic to buy an

[31:59] ambulance to stop the truck. Those

[32:01] all have to be done

[32:02] to wait for that call.

[32:04] So, and we don't know when that calls

[32:06] coming in or where it's coming from,

[32:07] but our citizens expect

[32:09] us to be ready when it

[32:10] does.

[32:11] Um.

[32:13] Readiness costs money every hour

[32:15] of every day whether the ambulance

[32:16] wheels turn or not.

[32:17] And there's a lot of examples

[32:19] probably we could reference during

[32:20] COVID and how that,

[32:22] you know, truly was

[32:23] the the case.

[32:25] Um, RS competes

[32:26] for qualified paramedics with larger

[32:28] services and healthcare

[32:29] employers. Pay has

[32:30] risen because the workforce

[32:32] has to be sustainable

[32:33] and even then experienced providers

[32:35] are difficult to recruit

[32:37] and retain. Even if we

[32:38] get them, a lot of times they'll leave the

[32:40] business for An

[32:41] extra $1 they'll go into

[32:43] healthcare, they leave the discipline

[32:44] altogether. Um,

[32:46] so that is something else we're battling

[32:47] as well is, is not just

[32:49] funding but recruitment and

[32:50] retention because at

[32:51] the end of the day, you know, the ambulance

[32:53] sitting in the station is not the

[32:54] EMS system, it's really the

[32:56] people inside of it.

[32:58] Um, talking a little bit,

[32:59] um, again about employees,

[33:01] you know, we asked them if

[33:03] you all know EMS people.

[33:04] I mean, they work

[33:06] nights, holidays, weekends,

[33:08] storms, disasters.

[33:09] I mean, and they see a lot of really

[33:10] tough things.

[33:12] Um, but

[33:13] at the end of the day, they have to

[33:15] be able to pay their bills too.

[33:17] And, you know, they

[33:18] can love EMS but they still have

[33:20] to pay their mortgage and support

[33:21] their family.

[33:23] Uh, another thing, just kind of

[33:25] talking a little about response time,

[33:26] which you can see again, I addressed

[33:28] briefly,

[33:29] um,

[33:31] this is

[33:32] where the numbers really reach the

[33:34] patient.

[33:35] Um, real distance

[33:36] can't be eliminated.

[33:38] Staffing in available units

[33:39] determine where the responding

[33:40] ambulance starts.

[33:42] So, like I said, when I can't staff

[33:44] a truck, it's not just an HR

[33:45] problem. It really means

[33:47] an ambulance has to come from

[33:48] somewhere because when that call goes

[33:50] out, a truck has to,

[33:51] I mean, the person expects that truck

[33:53] to show

[33:53] up.

[33:56] So staffing shortage becomes

[33:57] a response time problem

[33:59] and a response

[34:00] time problem becomes a patient

[34:02] problem. So

[34:03] really in closing, um

[34:05] three things I just want to leave with

[34:07] you is the funding

[34:08] really has not kept pace over

[34:10] time even from the 70s,

[34:11] you know, and even the last five

[34:13] years, I think it's easy to see

[34:14] that's the case.

[34:16] Um cost and demand have have

[34:17] risen dramatically and

[34:19] there's continuing widening

[34:20] gap through

[34:22] um that reaches the

[34:23] citizen for help.

[34:25] So when someone in rural Oklahoma

[34:26] calls 911, they should not have

[34:28] to understand how EMS is

[34:29] funded. They just

[34:31] expect someone to answer.

[34:32] So our responsibility

[34:34] is to be ready before that call

[34:35] comes and the question

[34:37] before us is how we sustainably

[34:39] fund that readiness in rural

[34:40] Oklahoma. Thank

[34:41] you.

[34:43] >> Yes.

[34:45] Thank you, Brandy. And

[34:47] you, in your

[34:48] presentation here, you, you have

[34:50] the numbers for 25, but

[34:51] you said this year,

[34:52] you expect that your

[34:54] costs will be around

[34:55] 2.5

[34:56] million.

[35:00] >> Yes, uh, our estimate of

[35:01] needs that we just received from the

[35:03] county, they said was

[35:04] 2.5 million. I

[35:05] don't have the number yet

[35:07] for what the avalorium is

[35:08] gonna come. I, they're

[35:10] telling me it's going to be around

[35:11] 5. or I'm

[35:12] sorry, I think it was like

[35:13] 510, but I'm

[35:15] actually waiting on the final

[35:16] number. >> So tell

[35:17] me

[35:18] how you

[35:19] have

[35:21] covered that gap either

[35:22] locally or countywide.

[35:24] How are you addressing the

[35:26] Approximate $2

[35:27] million shortfall

[35:28] there. >> So for

[35:30] our specific 522

[35:31] district when they were set

[35:33] up in 2020,

[35:35] um, the citizens

[35:36] voted it in. They did a 3

[35:38] we were capped at, you know, we're capped at

[35:39] 3 mills. We do get the 3

[35:41] mills. at that time

[35:42] they did not vote in,

[35:44] uh, the extra

[35:46] 3 millions for the

[35:47] capital expense.

[35:49] Uh, I believe it was 2017

[35:51] they went, they did go for a

[35:52] bond. Um, so

[35:54] we do have another one

[35:55] mil for the bond because they

[35:57] they specifically did that

[35:58] to buy new ambulances.

[36:00] Um, so really

[36:02] the way that gap is filled is

[36:03] through doing in facility

[36:04] transfers and billing

[36:06] revenue.

[36:09] >> OK, so even,

[36:11] even if you

[36:13] convince your

[36:15] voters.

[36:16] To go up to the full 6

[36:18] mil, it's

[36:19] not any way

[36:21] that you're self-sustaining there, is

[36:22] >> there? correct? And I think you

[36:24] would see that across the state. It's

[36:25] not just us. I mean, this is just

[36:27] our example. I mean, Brian can talk

[36:28] about how that works for them.

[36:30] He's a much larger service,

[36:32] but it's, it's still

[36:33] the same, right? The gap is

[36:35] still the same. So

[36:36] for us we don't have a

[36:38] hospital or a long term care

[36:39] facility in our district

[36:41] so we have to go outside of the

[36:43] district to run those

[36:44] calls and that

[36:45] takes us away from our

[36:46] citizens. So a

[36:48] 911911

[36:49] call comes out we may not be

[36:51] there. >> So,

[36:52] so you do not have

[36:54] a hos

[36:55] hospital within your

[36:56] district >> in the school district,

[36:58] >> correct. So if you're doing

[36:59] transfers, they're all

[37:01] out of district,

[37:02] >> correct.

[37:05] But basically, I mean, we

[37:06] could not sustain

[37:08] the service on

[37:09] the 3 mills

[37:10] and 911 calls

[37:12] alone.

[37:16] Question.

[37:18] >> I feel for you because we're in the

[37:19] same boat.

[37:21] our hospital is shut down, but

[37:23] we do have the emergency room

[37:24] open and

[37:26] we we have 3 ambulances.

[37:28] one we try to put the north end of the

[37:29] county, one south end of the

[37:31] county, but there's

[37:32] times with the transfers

[37:34] we have no ambulances.

[37:35] What are you, you calling

[37:37] somebody? You obviously you're

[37:38] calling somebody from somewhere else, is

[37:40] that

[37:40] correct?

[37:43] >> Yes, thank you for the question.

[37:44] Um, basically

[37:46] the hospitals call out because

[37:47] what they want is

[37:49] the quickest ambulance to get there and move

[37:50] the patient out. So they're going

[37:52] to call around to any service they

[37:53] can get to come pick up the

[37:55] patient.

[37:56] So we just juggle that. I mean,

[37:58] we really try to leave a truck in our

[37:59] district as much as we can so

[38:01] that they're not left

[38:01] uncovered.

[38:03] Um, so we constantly

[38:04] are juggling

[38:06] that process of just

[38:08] do we have a truck in? when's the next

[38:09] one going to be back.

[38:11] Um, so it's a

[38:12] daily 24

[38:13] hour

[38:15] process to try to make sure the district's

[38:16] covered, but yet we're still

[38:18] doing enough to bring in some

[38:19] funding to build

[38:20] this gap.

[38:22] >> How often is it that your

[38:24] district is caught without an

[38:25] ambulance?

[38:27] >> I

[38:27] mean,

[38:30] Gosh.

[38:31] I mean, I would say that's starting

[38:33] to increase. Um,

[38:35] but like if we have a we only

[38:36] have one truck a day because we

[38:38] can't staff it we don't do

[38:39] transfers, right? because we

[38:41] don't want to take that truck out of

[38:42] district.

[38:43] um

[38:44] So >> We

[38:46] run 5 trucks a day,

[38:47] 24 hours a day, and we run

[38:49] out of trucks every >> day.

[38:50] OK, well that's what I was

[38:52] coming out with ours. There,

[38:53] there's not a day goes by that at

[38:54] some point in time

[38:56] we don't have an ambulance. Yeah,

[38:58] >> I would say there's probably

[38:59] a few times through the day, >> and one

[39:01] of our issues is not

[39:02] necessarily transfers, like just

[39:04] 911 calls and

[39:05] then. we're

[39:06] surrounded by

[39:08] counties that are a lot smaller

[39:09] than us. I'm in Bryan

[39:11] County and

[39:12] so we find ourselves in other

[39:13] counties because we have 5

[39:15] trucks and they have 1

[39:16] truck. So we

[39:17] find ourselves in those counties

[39:19] quite often.

[39:21] Because of this shortfall,

[39:22] because they're doing the same things,

[39:24] >> do you, do you get

[39:26] any funding from those

[39:27] other areas when

[39:29] you're going into, to,

[39:30] uh, pick up the just

[39:32] >> whatever we might get out of

[39:33] billing.

[39:34] Uh thank

[39:35] you.

[39:38] >> Alright,

[39:40] randy got your

[39:42] Mr. Norton.

[39:44] Brian. >> OK.

[39:45] Um, my name is Brian Norton.

[39:47] I am the chief of EMS

[39:48] for Bryan County,

[39:50] Oklahoma. Um, to

[39:51] kind of give you a

[39:53] background of me,

[39:54] um,

[39:56] I'm also the fire

[39:57] chief for the town of Calera.

[39:59] Um, so I kind of understand the

[40:00] fireside and the fundings and

[40:02] things. And then

[40:03] I was also the mayor of Calera for

[40:05] a short term and I've served 16

[40:07] years on the city council for

[40:08] Calera. So I

[40:10] kinda understand where the

[40:11] city and I've been at Bryan County Ms

[40:13] 29 years. So

[40:14] county, city funding,

[40:16] I understand where a lot of this is

[40:17] coming out of.

[40:19] And I'm,

[40:20] I can reiterate a lot of the stuff that

[40:22] Brandy said, but I'll kind

[40:23] of, I'll get a little bit

[40:25] more into the weeds

[40:26] and dirt with

[40:27] this. Um,

[40:29] Bryan County,

[40:30] we cover 990 square

[40:32] miles. We cover

[40:34] it with 5

[40:34] ambulances.

[40:36] Same ratio, we run over 8000

[40:38] calls a year.

[40:40] Um, that's what we're on

[40:41] average. we're, we're on average

[40:43] right now to hit

[40:44] about, um,

[40:46] for 2026 we're around

[40:47] 8100 calls is what

[40:49] our average is hitting

[40:50] us.

[40:52] In that same time

[40:54] frame.

[40:55] There's 17 fire

[40:57] departments. One paid 16

[40:58] volunteer fire departments in

[41:00] in Bryan County.

[41:01] There's over 140

[41:03] fire trucks to cover 900

[41:05] square miles

[41:06] in Bryan County.

[41:08] For less than 1500

[41:10] runs a year that are fire

[41:11] calls.

[41:13] Fully supported by

[41:14] taxpayer money, either city

[41:15] or county, 100%

[41:17] sales tax

[41:18] generated.

[41:20] I mean, we

[41:21] have

[41:23] I mean, I'll take Calera.

[41:24] I've got a $1.2

[41:26] million dollar fire truck

[41:28] for the town of Calera for 200

[41:29] calls a

[41:29] year.

[41:32] Um, EMS,

[41:34] I'm about to spend

[41:34] $325,000

[41:36] this month on a new

[41:37] ambulance. I'll

[41:39] spend another $300,000

[41:40] to stock that truck,

[41:42] and I've got to make it figure

[41:44] out how to come out of my budget

[41:45] of roughly about

[41:47] $3.8 million that

[41:48] I'll have,

[41:50] um.

[41:51] through taxes and, and,

[41:53] and billing to come up

[41:54] with plus

[41:56] Staff my trucks, plus

[41:58] keep them all running, plus keep the

[41:59] maintenance going

[42:01] and, and so on. So

[42:02] there, there's a, there's a big

[42:03] disparity

[42:04] between

[42:06] E ems and how we

[42:08] are funded. We,

[42:09] we

[42:10] Everybody wants an ambulance, but

[42:11] nobody wants to pay for it. That's kind of the

[42:13] way we feel about it.

[42:15] Um, if you

[42:16] use a kind of a

[42:17] nationwide rule of thumb

[42:19] with 8000 calls, you should

[42:21] have 1 truck per 1000.

[42:22] So we should be running 8 trucks in

[42:24] Bryan County.

[42:25] Um, on average,

[42:27] and we run 5.

[42:29] So that's where we get

[42:30] every day we run out of trucks,

[42:32] where every day we,

[42:34] we stack them, um,

[42:35] just kind of like what Bobby was talking

[42:37] about, um,

[42:39] We push off a lot of

[42:41] discharges from our hospital

[42:42] for a while to run

[42:44] 911 calls and

[42:45] then when we free a truck

[42:46] up, we go back and forth.

[42:48] And then there's times

[42:50] where the patients might

[42:51] have to wait. people have to wait

[42:53] for ambulances and that's

[42:54] not indicative. that's

[42:55] not just Bryan County.

[42:57] that's, I'm

[42:58] gonna say it's probably going to be in 77

[43:00] counties in Oklahoma.

[43:02] At some point or another, you're going to

[43:03] have to wait for an

[43:04] ambulance.

[43:06] So

[43:12] Our,

[43:14] our ad valorum, I was gonna kind of

[43:15] touch a little bit on the ad

[43:16] valorum too. And I wanted to

[43:18] put some clarity a little

[43:19] bit. When,

[43:21] um, they presented about

[43:22] 6 mills,

[43:24] we only get 3 mils

[43:26] of property

[43:27] tax. We can do a 3

[43:29] mil bond. The sinking

[43:30] fund is a bond

[43:31] issue and it

[43:33] is, so it's not

[43:34] a permanent tax.

[43:36] you bond it for a certain

[43:37] capital. And it

[43:39] goes away. Like I

[43:40] currently do have a bond

[43:42] issue, um,

[43:44] that, that built a

[43:45] new station in

[43:46] to house us because we were, we

[43:48] actually had all of our trucks outside

[43:49] and we had to build a

[43:51] new station to house our

[43:52] trucks.

[43:53] Um, and then that 3

[43:55] mills, the first year it was like

[43:56] 2.1 mils and it's just

[43:57] gradually gone down and it'll actually

[43:59] go away in 10 years.

[44:01] In order to get it again, I'll have to

[44:02] go back out to the vote of the

[44:03] people to, to

[44:05] get that, um,

[44:07] to, to get

[44:08] that. Extra

[44:09] 3 meals

[44:10] possibly.

[44:12] Um,

[44:13] the sales

[44:15] tax on the,

[44:16] the, the

[44:18] Title 68 sales tax,

[44:19] that was just

[44:21] passed two

[44:22] years ago, um, through

[44:24] the house and the Senate

[44:25] here. Um,

[44:27] so far there's only one

[44:28] ambulance service in the state that

[44:30] has that. that's Muskogee

[44:31] County. Um, and

[44:33] I think they're only at like

[44:34] $0.3

[44:35] of that one cent meal. They

[44:37] are 1cent of

[44:38] that.

[44:43] So, so funding

[44:44] just hasn't, you know,

[44:45] when

[44:47] Currently, the current atmosphere in

[44:49] the, in the political geoscape

[44:50] of stuff right

[44:52] now is to cut taxes.

[44:54] And

[44:55] Then here comes EMS turns

[44:57] around and says, hey, can you raise your

[44:58] taxes?

[44:59] And everywhere we're

[45:01] going for that, it's, it's getting

[45:02] voted no,

[45:04] because we're getting a huge

[45:06] outcry

[45:07] from

[45:08] People that just want to cut taxes. They don't

[45:10] want taxes, they don't want taxes.

[45:12] Um, in Bryan County, we try

[45:13] to run it and

[45:14] because some, uh,

[45:16] uh, mismanagement

[45:18] of a local city,

[45:20] It got voted no. All those

[45:21] people came out and voted us no,

[45:23] and then they turn around and they,

[45:25] our call volume increases,

[45:27] you know, and so, and, and

[45:28] then we get Facebook

[45:30] posts and everything else about, hey,

[45:31] I waited 1520 minutes for

[45:33] an ambulance.

[45:34] So, you know, it's,

[45:36] it's, it's a catch-22 that

[45:37] we're in, in the in the political

[45:39] environment that we're in right now. Everybody

[45:40] wants to cut the taxes, but the only way

[45:42] to save EMS right now is

[45:43] to, Raise

[45:45] taxes and

[45:46] nobody wants to do

[45:47] it.

[45:50] >> Uh, thank you. I mean,

[45:52] and what y'all

[45:53] don't know Bobby, or I mean

[45:55] not Bobby but Bobby

[45:56] too, but Brian and I, we've been

[45:58] working together ever

[45:59] since 2013

[46:01] and, uh,

[46:02] become really good friends

[46:04] and

[46:05] uh see he's

[46:06] up here a lot,

[46:08] but

[46:09] we've had these conversations

[46:10] time and time again

[46:12] and some of the things

[46:13] like I said. You talk

[46:15] about the time to one

[46:17] of the biggest reasons

[46:18] that we're

[46:19] having such

[46:21] many calls in our

[46:23] part of the world is tourism

[46:24] because we have so many

[46:26] people in 3 industry in the

[46:27] state, and

[46:30] Choctaw County is a prime

[46:31] example. Uh,

[46:33] we had an idiot one time

[46:34] steal an ambulance

[46:36] while he was on call.

[46:38] I mean, just different battles and

[46:39] that person

[46:41] died because the

[46:42] ambulance.

[46:44] He drove the ambulance down the road and

[46:45] just for joy ride light

[46:47] flash and everything else. I mean, you

[46:48] just just in

[46:50] our in

[46:52] It just goes on and on

[46:53] and We,

[46:55] uh,

[46:56] the hospital, I

[46:58] mean you brought up your hospital.

[46:59] I mean we're losing our

[47:00] rural hospitals.

[47:01] So,

[47:03] uh, in my district in

[47:04] the north part of it on

[47:06] highway 259 is closer

[47:07] to go to Arkansas.

[47:09] And I mean

[47:11] and a lot of times

[47:12] we if it's that

[47:14] bad we have to

[47:15] get a helicopter

[47:17] come in. I mean,

[47:18] because we're up, I mean you

[47:20] get in the middle of nowhere

[47:21] and literally you're lucky if you

[47:23] even get call

[47:24] 911

[47:26] so it's, uh,

[47:28] all these challenges that

[47:29] y'all have. I mean, I

[47:30] wanna thank y'all for always

[47:32] up here beating the bushes

[47:34] because that's how we get things

[47:35] done

[47:36] and

[47:39] said

[47:41] we're trying to keep our

[47:42] rural hospitals and

[47:44] where we can get them where we

[47:45] short term. I mean,

[47:47] um,

[47:49] Bryan County we're we're

[47:50] privileged because they have a pretty good

[47:51] one. and you got Marshall County and

[47:53] Choctaw County and

[47:55] Uh, To County, I mean, like

[47:57] I said, around there, but

[47:58] still our rural hospitals

[48:00] are disappearing where we're

[48:01] having to travel further

[48:03] and stuff. Well, >> one

[48:04] of your things too

[48:06] with your rural hospitals,

[48:07] the EMS were connected,

[48:09] you know, because there's a lot of

[48:11] people that they know if they go

[48:12] to, like, I'm, I'm

[48:13] originally from Atoka County

[48:15] and a lot of people

[48:17] from Atoka County will

[48:18] not go to atoka

[48:20] County's little hospital, which

[48:21] causes a financial problem for

[48:23] them. They will drive to

[48:24] McAllister or

[48:25] Durant

[48:27] because they know if they go to a

[48:29] tocas hospital, they're, they're

[48:30] not going to get a lot of care because it

[48:31] is rural, and then they may

[48:33] lay there for a long time waiting

[48:35] on an ambulance

[48:36] or

[48:37] If that, if atoka

[48:38] County EMS is transferring

[48:40] someone, it may be

[48:41] 6, you know, typically they go

[48:43] to Oklahoma City, so it's a 6

[48:44] to 8 hour turnaround

[48:46] to get that ambulance back.

[48:48] So a lot of people just bypass

[48:49] your rural hospital. So if you

[48:51] can strengthen

[48:52] your ambulance services,

[48:54] you'll strengthen your rural hospitals

[48:56] where we're, we work together

[48:57] all the time.

[48:59] >> Exactly. I mean,

[49:00] I mean, I can use my curtain

[49:02] cane for it. If

[49:03] we have an emergency in the north

[49:05] part of the county, it depends on

[49:06] timing. it's

[49:08] on Friday evening

[49:09] or during the weekend, God help us

[49:11] because the only way to

[49:13] the north part of our county is going through

[49:14] Hotown. And

[49:16] it's backed up

[49:17] in discussion and,

[49:19] uh, I

[49:20] mean, I had

[49:21] the privilege of working for

[49:23] US congressman, so I drove

[49:24] a lot of these roads in

[49:26] southeast Oklahoma for for over

[49:27] 8 counties and,

[49:29] and I've seen it

[49:30] firsthand and stuff

[49:32] and just

[49:32] this.

[49:35] I mean, just like you

[49:36] talked about all the volunteer

[49:38] fire departments

[49:40] and

[49:42] We got and sad to say

[49:44] some of them abuse

[49:45] our system

[49:47] they honestly do

[49:48] but and that's abused

[49:50] money could be going to our

[49:51] EMS and

[49:53] we just have to look at it certain different

[49:55] ways and

[49:57] uh

[49:59] population you talk, I mean

[50:00] we talk. Uh,

[50:02] about your population, like I

[50:03] said, on the weekends it

[50:05] grows because

[50:07] of the tourism

[50:08] and everything.

[50:10] Um, >> I get

[50:11] about Thursday

[50:12] through Sunday, I get almost

[50:13] 10,000 people

[50:15] just

[50:17] At a casino

[50:19] or spread out through a county at a

[50:20] casino,

[50:22] >> I mean once

[50:23] Yeah, and they're fill up.

[50:25] I mean, and

[50:26] they, they that

[50:28] one casino is I

[50:29] think 85%

[50:30] oxy.

[50:32] 365. >> So

[50:33] 30% of my call

[50:34] volume.

[50:37] And they pay no property

[50:38] tax.

[50:39] >> No.

[50:41] >> Yes sir. Well, you might have

[50:42] answered my question there,

[50:44] but I was, I was asking

[50:45] obviously in,

[50:47] in that situation,

[50:49] uh,

[50:50] our, our tribal

[50:51] partners.

[50:53] Engaged in

[50:54] this issue,

[50:55] uh, helping

[50:57] financially or

[50:58] providing any, any sort

[51:00] of services as

[51:01] well?

[51:03] >> My

[51:04] personal experiences

[51:06] with my

[51:07] tribal is

[51:09] if it's trusted land, they

[51:11] will not pay property tax

[51:13] towards EMS. They don't,

[51:14] they feel that that's their

[51:16] sovereign land and they're not going to pay

[51:17] it. Um,

[51:18] I've had discussions all

[51:20] the way up to the tribal

[51:22] councils, to the,

[51:23] um, council members, to the

[51:24] chief,

[51:26] and they

[51:27] just, Don't

[51:28] do it.

[51:30] >> We've got a question here.

[51:33] >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[51:34] again, thank you both very much

[51:36] for being here today. a lot of

[51:37] great information.

[51:39] Um, wanna circle back to

[51:40] something. I believe you both

[51:42] mentioned transfers and

[51:43] emergency calls.

[51:45] um

[51:47] Does one call

[51:49] cost more

[51:50] than another and how do you

[51:52] determine which call

[51:53] to take?

[51:55] >> So there is a statute

[51:57] that says that if it's in

[51:58] my, this will kind of answer

[52:00] his question over here.

[52:02] If it's

[52:03] in my service

[52:04] district, I have a duty

[52:06] to act for

[52:08] emergency services.

[52:10] Um, if it's a

[52:11] transfer, I

[52:12] can take it,

[52:14] you know, here and there. If it's not an

[52:15] emergency transfer,

[52:17] um, I can arrange another

[52:18] company to come take the transfer and

[52:20] things of that nature.

[52:21] But

[52:22] um,

[52:25] Non-emergency transfers will pay

[52:27] you more. typically you do

[52:28] less.

[52:29] A 911

[52:31] call, you

[52:32] typically do more

[52:34] and get paid

[52:35] almost nothing. about Medicare

[52:37] reimburses that

[52:38] are

[52:40] Probably around 30 to

[52:42] 40% depending on where

[52:43] you're at, super rural

[52:45] rural or, you

[52:46] know. So

[52:48] we're We're

[52:49] like one of the only

[52:51] industries that we build

[52:52] something and

[52:54] then Medicare and the insurance

[52:55] companies, come back and turn around

[52:56] and say it's only worth

[52:58] this.

[52:59] So we may bill $1000

[53:01] but they may only pay us $350

[53:03] and then we have to write it

[53:04] off.

[53:06] Um, former

[53:07] Speaker, uh,

[53:08] McCall, when

[53:09] I was talking

[53:11] with him about this at one point,

[53:13] I kind of gave him our business

[53:14] plan and I asked him, I said, you're a

[53:15] banker, would you loan me money?

[53:17] He said, absolutely

[53:18] not.

[53:21] >> So

[53:25] One other thing I was gonna

[53:27] on my notes, uh, the bond

[53:29] elections. What people don't

[53:30] understand is,

[53:32] especially on y'all

[53:33] in schools and everything

[53:35] else, uh,

[53:37] try to keep the bond

[53:38] going. I mean, when it, when

[53:40] the sunset ends, you need

[53:41] to renew

[53:43] it and,

[53:44] uh,

[53:45] that's a big plus

[53:47] in

[53:48] getting.

[53:50] Rural people to understand

[53:51] that because honestly their

[53:53] taxes are not gonna go up because they're

[53:54] already paying it, but just keeping

[53:56] it going and just

[53:58] and uh that's

[53:59] a challenge we

[54:00] have in rural

[54:02] Oklahoma. I know in my

[54:03] part of the world he's got

[54:05] a school

[54:06] that it needs a

[54:07] bond and they

[54:09] will not they they're

[54:11] overflowing, but

[54:12] they they will not

[54:14] approve a bond to help

[54:16] their school. So

[54:17] and then that silo

[54:19] school so this this

[54:20] it's just one of the

[54:22] best baseball programs in the

[54:23] state, but still I went

[54:25] from I know remember when they

[54:27] were a now I think they're

[54:28] 3A. that's

[54:29] how fast they've grown in the last

[54:31] 10 years but

[54:32] still

[54:33] they can't build nothing because they can't pass

[54:35] a bond. so that's the

[54:36] challenges rule and

[54:38] these E emss

[54:39] have and I'm just using that

[54:40] for an example from

[54:42] my experience

[54:43] around.

[54:45] Mr. Norton's area like I

[54:47] said, him and I have

[54:49] worked a lot

[54:50] over the years, so it's

[54:52] on different matters, but

[54:53] still, he, uh,

[54:54] he,

[54:55] I've

[54:57] He, before

[54:58] they took

[55:00] done road construction, I

[55:01] mean, they were,

[55:03] it was even worse than

[55:04] just the

[55:05] casino.

[55:09] >> Mr. Chairman, as we

[55:11] move into

[55:12] the

[55:13] Closing remarks

[55:14] and questions

[55:16] I hope I hope

[55:18] continue because we haven't answered

[55:19] much so far but

[55:21] uh if I may ask

[55:22] Marie if you would get

[55:24] back to the table and Bobby

[55:25] if you would join us as

[55:27] well all if we

[55:28] have all of our

[55:30] presenters and folks that

[55:31] uh

[55:32] worked worked

[55:33] on this

[55:34] project.

[55:36] I have a question

[55:37] for you

[55:39] providers there.

[55:41] Given

[55:42] the

[55:47] Rate of

[55:48] return, obviously,

[55:50] uh, mentioning

[55:52] transfers and you

[55:53] don't have a hospital in your

[55:54] area.

[55:55] Uh,

[55:57] does, does having a

[55:58] healthcare facility in

[55:59] your area

[56:02] Financially help

[56:03] or hurt

[56:05] your operation.

[56:07] >> It keeps us running.

[56:08] >> It does keep you running with

[56:10] with transfers.

[56:11] Does the second

[56:13] follow up to that then I

[56:14] guess, has the,

[56:16] the growth

[56:17] of

[56:18] Airmed.

[56:21] Lighten your load

[56:23] any?

[56:25] Or does it is that

[56:26] competition?

[56:27] No,

[56:29] >> no.

[56:31] If it's critical,

[56:33] the, if it's a critical

[56:34] patient, air

[56:36] services are great to get

[56:37] them out of

[56:39] They're really great about getting them out of our

[56:41] system. Um, like,

[56:42] um, I'll just say for Durant, if I

[56:44] have a priority 1 or priority

[56:45] 2, patient,

[56:46] those are the two most extreme

[56:48] patients. The air

[56:49] services are very

[56:51] key component of

[56:53] the overall EMS

[56:54] system because they get them down

[56:55] to typically in

[56:57] our area we get them into the Dallas-Fort

[56:59] Worth area, um,

[57:00] because within

[57:02] an hour and a half of Durant,

[57:03] there's 7,

[57:05] level 1 trauma centres in the

[57:06] Dallas-Fort Worth area. There's only

[57:08] 2 in the state of Oklahoma.

[57:10] Um, so.

[57:12] Getting those people out of the

[57:13] system and getting

[57:14] them

[57:16] Into a level one facility is

[57:18] very critical for

[57:19] us and it also

[57:21] helps us because.

[57:23] Typically in the

[57:24] state, anywhere in the state of

[57:26] Oklahoma, a hospital

[57:27] will transfer to Oklahoma

[57:29] City or Tulsa.

[57:30] And so

[57:32] that costs me a lot

[57:33] more time and

[57:34] money as far

[57:36] as It, it's

[57:37] more or less, it costs me a lot of

[57:39] time because I have to send a crew out

[57:40] for 8 hours and

[57:42] that's 8 hours

[57:43] that my other

[57:44] crews have to make up the slack

[57:46] on running all the extra 911

[57:48] calls because the 911 calls don't

[57:49] stop while they're on a transfer.

[57:51] So it, it winds up

[57:53] costing me time,

[57:54] fatigue,

[57:55] crews, health, and

[57:57] so on. >> Let

[57:58] me ask then, I'm, I'm

[58:00] assuming the volume.

[58:01] Uh, of your calls,

[58:03] uh, remote rural

[58:04] areas, auto accidents

[58:07] more than anything.

[58:08] Probably if, if

[58:09] you're called on

[58:11] an auto accident in a rural

[58:12] area and the

[58:14] opportunity comes in where

[58:16] Med will pick them

[58:17] up and transport them,

[58:19] since you don't transport a patient,

[58:21] but you provide on-site

[58:22] care there, do you still

[58:24] get paid? >> So we're

[58:25] allowed on that situation,

[58:27] we, we do bill the base

[58:28] rate. We don't bill any,

[58:30] typically in EMS you bill base

[58:32] rate and, um,

[58:33] uh, mileage.

[58:35] But when we do that and we

[58:36] transfer them to the helicopter, we

[58:38] just bill the base rate

[58:40] of our

[58:40] call.

[58:43] and that kind of leads

[58:44] into, I'm sorry if

[58:46] I hijack your question

[58:47] here. Um,

[58:49] there is a

[58:50] push right now for EMS

[58:52] to do treatment in

[58:52] place.

[58:54] Um, because we

[58:56] do get a lot of that, come check

[58:57] me out, come see

[58:59] this, come see that because

[59:00] we really become

[59:01] the

[59:03] healthcare system to a lot of

[59:04] people, um,

[59:06] But there's no avenues right

[59:08] now to fund that.

[59:09] There, there is a,

[59:11] the big beautiful bill gave a

[59:12] little bit of grant money

[59:14] to pay

[59:16] for some trucks and some training

[59:17] and, and, and,

[59:19] one time. When that runs

[59:21] out, there's no avenue,

[59:23] um.

[59:25] Medicaid's not there to

[59:27] pay the, the, you

[59:28] know, state of

[59:29] Texas.

[59:31] Uh, passed a law to

[59:33] make their insurance, private

[59:34] insurance and Medicaid pay

[59:35] for treatment in place.

[59:37] Oklahoma doesn't have that

[59:38] law.

[59:40] So

[59:41] And, and it's

[59:42] becoming expected of us

[59:44] to do that, go treat people

[59:45] in place,

[59:47] especially diabetics, things of

[59:48] that nature. Um,

[59:50] we go treat them and then you're

[59:51] talking about cost of a 911

[59:53] versus a, uh, not

[59:54] a deal. If

[59:56] I go and

[59:57] give, say

[59:59] glucagon, which is a

[1:00:00] diabetic medication,

[1:00:01] um, if I give it to somebody,

[1:00:03] glucagon is about $400

[1:00:05] a dose.

[1:00:06] And I get no reimbursement

[1:00:08] from that. It costs me

[1:00:10] about $125

[1:00:11] to $135 an

[1:00:13] hour to run an ambulance.

[1:00:14] So one hour.

[1:00:16] $400 dose,

[1:00:18] $135

[1:00:19] to run the ambulance, that's pay

[1:00:21] and fuel, diesel, wear

[1:00:22] and tear.

[1:00:24] So one call cost

[1:00:25] me over $500

[1:00:27] and I get no

[1:00:27] reimbursement.

[1:00:30] And that's, that

[1:00:31] happens.

[1:00:33] When I first started 29 years

[1:00:34] ago, we probably ran

[1:00:36] 5% treatment,

[1:00:37] no transport. Today,

[1:00:39] I think we're up into the

[1:00:41] 2020 to

[1:00:42] 30% depending on

[1:00:43] what District

[1:00:45] you're in?

[1:00:47] >> Well, that's, that's good to

[1:00:48] note. I've made

[1:00:50] a note myself here if,

[1:00:51] if our neighbour

[1:00:53] to the south has done

[1:00:54] something that actually helped

[1:00:56] and, and we have yet to move

[1:00:57] on that, Bobby

[1:00:59] can get us details that may

[1:01:00] be something we want to

[1:01:01] try.

[1:01:05] >> The big kicker on treatment

[1:01:06] in place is Medicare. It'll

[1:01:07] take the federal CMs

[1:01:09] to change their

[1:01:10] rules.

[1:01:11] That's a bigger deal,

[1:01:13] but locally we can

[1:01:14] affect Medicaid and private

[1:01:16] insurance.

[1:01:20] >> Back to your

[1:01:21] presentation and then your

[1:01:23] clarification of

[1:01:24] something

[1:01:25] that

[1:01:29] Up to 3 meals.

[1:01:31] And

[1:01:33] In addition to that would

[1:01:34] be in the form of a

[1:01:36] bond with a

[1:01:37] specific

[1:01:38] proposal.

[1:01:39] Is that correct?

[1:01:41] >> Yes. Yeah, so the

[1:01:43] initial 3 mills is to fund

[1:01:44] the operations like he said, and

[1:01:46] that's a good clarification. I probably didn't

[1:01:47] make that super clear. The

[1:01:49] additional 3 would be for a

[1:01:50] specific to build

[1:01:52] a facility, buy more

[1:01:53] trucks, and so it's in the form of a

[1:01:54] bond. And so that mills

[1:01:56] then I guess funds a sinking

[1:01:58] fund to pay for that.

[1:01:59] >> And, and that would be for

[1:02:00] a specific project

[1:02:02] for a specific amount of time

[1:02:04] and then it would drop off.

[1:02:05] Yes, >> yeah, you have,

[1:02:06] and it has to be a vote of the

[1:02:08] people every time, so

[1:02:09] you have to be pretty

[1:02:11] specific on the

[1:02:12] ballot.

[1:02:18] >> You talked about the number of fire

[1:02:20] departments, uh, in your

[1:02:22] response area. How many of

[1:02:23] them are medical first

[1:02:25] response? Are you

[1:02:26] providing all of it?

[1:02:27] >> I, I have one

[1:02:29] that is an actual certified

[1:02:30] EMR agency, and that's the paid

[1:02:32] department of Durant. The rest

[1:02:33] of them, they'll come out if

[1:02:35] we ask for help,

[1:02:36] um, but they're not an

[1:02:38] EMR agency. And

[1:02:39] a lot of them have,

[1:02:41] which like I take

[1:02:42] cholera, like a lot

[1:02:44] of the guys that are on Calera

[1:02:45] work for either,

[1:02:47] uh, um, they work

[1:02:48] for EMS or they work

[1:02:49] for, you know,

[1:02:51] so there's a lot of trained volunteer

[1:02:53] firemen that are EMT basics

[1:02:54] all the way to paramedics.

[1:02:56] So most of them don't do,

[1:02:58] most agencies,

[1:03:00] a lot of your volunteer departments don't do

[1:03:01] the EMR, the

[1:03:03] actual state licenser

[1:03:04] for EMR agency

[1:03:06] because it's, It's one

[1:03:07] more hoop as a volunteer. It's

[1:03:09] one more thing you got to do as a volunteer

[1:03:10] and you

[1:03:11] know,

[1:03:13] volunteerism

[1:03:14] is,

[1:03:15] no, we're not looking for more

[1:03:16] responsibility and then

[1:03:18] when the state calls you got to meet

[1:03:19] them, take,

[1:03:21] you gotta take off work to go

[1:03:22] meet them at our station for

[1:03:24] them to do an inspection.

[1:03:26] you know, so it's But

[1:03:28] they're there and they are trained and

[1:03:29] they, and they, they help

[1:03:31] tremendously. >> They're trained,

[1:03:33] but they, because they are

[1:03:34] not EMR certified,

[1:03:36] they're not carrying any equipment.

[1:03:37] >> They carry oxygen

[1:03:39] and first aid.

[1:03:40] So, and so they

[1:03:41] basically can stabilize a

[1:03:43] patient if they're bleeding out

[1:03:44] or something like that

[1:03:46] until the ambulance gets

[1:03:47] there.

[1:03:48] So go ahead, I'm

[1:03:50] sorry. >> follow up, Mr.

[1:03:51] Chair.

[1:03:52] Uh,

[1:03:53] so, kind of

[1:03:55] along those, along

[1:03:57] those lines,

[1:03:58] uh, well, actually

[1:03:59] circling, circling back to

[1:04:01] what you said

[1:04:02] before, what kind of, what's

[1:04:04] your percentage of

[1:04:05] overall build

[1:04:07] that you actually

[1:04:08] collect?

[1:04:09] >> Uh, I think right now we're

[1:04:11] at 22%.

[1:04:12] At Bryan County.

[1:04:14] >> Is yours >> similar,

[1:04:16] yes. >> So

[1:04:17] I, I think that's important for people

[1:04:19] to understand

[1:04:20] that of the actual

[1:04:22] bill.

[1:04:24] So you told us

[1:04:25] how little this millage

[1:04:27] actually pays

[1:04:29] to sustain your system

[1:04:30] and then what you're

[1:04:31] billing.

[1:04:33] is

[1:04:33] 22%.

[1:04:36] Of what you actually, the

[1:04:37] actual bill and

[1:04:39] like you said, Medicare,

[1:04:40] Medicaid,

[1:04:42] private insurance is telling

[1:04:43] you what

[1:04:45] they're going to reimburse.

[1:04:47] So to

[1:04:49] your point, that's

[1:04:51] none of us would go into that business

[1:04:52] model.

[1:04:54] So

[1:04:55] What Texas has done

[1:04:57] with the treatment in

[1:04:58] place because

[1:05:00] as a, as a longtime

[1:05:02] firefighter and and being

[1:05:03] in this.

[1:05:05] And I, I would

[1:05:06] think it would

[1:05:07] maybe worse in

[1:05:09] the rural areas.

[1:05:11] 911 is

[1:05:12] people's into

[1:05:14] the medical

[1:05:14] system.

[1:05:16] How much do you think treatment

[1:05:18] in place would change

[1:05:19] the game for your

[1:05:20] services?

[1:05:24] >> I, I think it has a,

[1:05:25] a, a big, it'll have a

[1:05:27] big impact on us because we,

[1:05:28] we get right now, we get a lot

[1:05:30] of people

[1:05:30] that

[1:05:33] They just wanna,

[1:05:35] we transport a lot of stuff that doesn't

[1:05:36] need to be transported. I'll say

[1:05:38] that

[1:05:39] non-emergency like we'll get called

[1:05:41] 911 and we'll still

[1:05:42] transport them even

[1:05:43] though

[1:05:45] Probably maybe they shouldn't

[1:05:46] go by EMS, but they do

[1:05:48] because they want to go. They tell us they

[1:05:49] want to go and so we take

[1:05:50] them.

[1:05:51] If we had that more of an

[1:05:53] option to be more aggressive

[1:05:54] towards treatment in place,

[1:05:56] there's a lot of things that could probably

[1:05:57] be, hey, treat in place,

[1:05:59] could go see your private, your

[1:06:01] doctor, you know, on

[1:06:02] Tuesday, whatever you need to

[1:06:03] do.

[1:06:04] Um,

[1:06:06] And

[1:06:07] But right now it's not a

[1:06:09] big push, you know, like, as

[1:06:10] a, as a chief, I'm not

[1:06:12] pushing.

[1:06:14] I mean, I'm never telling my

[1:06:15] crews to force people

[1:06:17] to go to the hospital, you know, if they

[1:06:18] refuse, instruct

[1:06:20] them of the, the, of what

[1:06:21] could happen, you know,

[1:06:23] give them the worst case scenario

[1:06:24] and ask them to

[1:06:26] go. But if they

[1:06:27] refuse, you know, they still

[1:06:28] refuse. But at the same

[1:06:30] time, I think if you had the

[1:06:31] option to give them more

[1:06:33] treatment, And

[1:06:34] give them have, and that, that's

[1:06:36] another component of treatment in place

[1:06:38] is that there's a lot of stuff built in

[1:06:39] to help get them into

[1:06:41] this facility, into

[1:06:42] a, a primary

[1:06:44] care physician, an urgent care

[1:06:45] or something of that nature. There's,

[1:06:47] there's

[1:06:49] There's a book, you know, there's a

[1:06:50] protocol for that

[1:06:51] to help get them introduced

[1:06:53] into the healthcare system in

[1:06:54] a different way

[1:06:56] that doesn't tax the ERs

[1:06:58] and the EMS system and

[1:06:59] stuff over time,

[1:07:00] so. >> I

[1:07:02] was just gonna add, I mean, you've

[1:07:03] probably seen there is a

[1:07:05] new push to for this rural

[1:07:06] health transformation

[1:07:08] project again,

[1:07:09] great, still have to apply for a

[1:07:11] grant, you know,

[1:07:12] I'm 26

[1:07:14] employees and one director with an

[1:07:15] admin trying to manage a

[1:07:17] grant grant compliance.

[1:07:18] I mean. You know, but

[1:07:20] it's, it is a push for kind of

[1:07:21] a community paramedic

[1:07:23] type program

[1:07:24] which would benefit us. I

[1:07:25] mean, everyone in the state,

[1:07:27] especially in these rural areas.

[1:07:29] um, but then once that

[1:07:30] money runs out, what happens? Now

[1:07:32] I've got a program in place and I

[1:07:33] have to sustain it.

[1:07:35] So, you know, a lot of what

[1:07:36] we talked about at the beginning is

[1:07:38] sustainability.

[1:07:39] There is that whole piece of

[1:07:41] reimbursement, which is a whole

[1:07:42] another bucket

[1:07:43] that at least as

[1:07:45] as the one group and

[1:07:46] you know, we don't even

[1:07:48] feel like tackling that because

[1:07:49] that involves

[1:07:51] large insurance companies

[1:07:52] and we don't have the

[1:07:53] ability to

[1:07:55] even start

[1:07:56] that conversation.

[1:07:58] So for us looking at

[1:07:59] sustainability,

[1:08:00] again, options are out there for

[1:08:02] grants, but for

[1:08:03] me, trying to manage

[1:08:04] 6 grants.

[1:08:06] It's difficult. Like I have to

[1:08:07] hire someone just to manage the grant,

[1:08:09] you know. So,

[1:08:10] um, but definitely

[1:08:12] having the ability to treat these

[1:08:13] people who just don't have a

[1:08:15] ride. They couldn't make their

[1:08:16] dialysis. They,

[1:08:18] you know, so many things that we

[1:08:19] see people for that really don't

[1:08:21] need to go in an ambulance to an

[1:08:23] emergency room

[1:08:24] to, you know, clog

[1:08:26] up the system.

[1:08:27] But we treat them, we take care

[1:08:29] of them because

[1:08:30] that's what we

[1:08:31] do.

[1:08:34] >> Mr. Chairman.

[1:08:36] So again kind of circling

[1:08:37] back to the beginning, you

[1:08:38] respond outside outside

[1:08:40] your district obviously

[1:08:42] you bill.

[1:08:44] But you can't bill more than

[1:08:45] what you're, you're billing

[1:08:47] for other than

[1:08:48] mileage. The people that

[1:08:49] are actually paying the freight on

[1:08:51] their property tax, can

[1:08:52] you?

[1:08:54] Is it, is it the

[1:08:55] same rate? >> Yeah,

[1:08:57] we don't, we don't have a different

[1:08:58] rate for in county or out of

[1:09:00] county, so,

[1:09:01] uh.

[1:09:03] >> Thank

[1:09:03] you.

[1:09:06] >> Go ahead.

[1:09:07] >> This is probably more

[1:09:09] more of a statement.

[1:09:11] But we're going to have to figure

[1:09:13] out Another

[1:09:14] form of funding, at least where

[1:09:16] I'm from, representing

[1:09:17] dempsey.

[1:09:19] You're just not going to pass a

[1:09:20] bond. the

[1:09:22] landowners,

[1:09:23] um, I know the schools

[1:09:25] just had recently one at Stillwell.

[1:09:26] The landowners in

[1:09:28] my area, you know,

[1:09:29] they, they look at it like,

[1:09:31] why are we footing the

[1:09:32] bill for everything? That's why I was

[1:09:34] asking about sales tax

[1:09:35] because

[1:09:37] We, we need it. We need the

[1:09:39] money. We need more

[1:09:40] ambulances.

[1:09:41] when you need it, you need it, but when you

[1:09:43] don't, nobody thinks about it. So

[1:09:44] that's why you're not going to get a bond

[1:09:46] passed. Um,

[1:09:47] so again, I don't know

[1:09:49] what the solution

[1:09:50] is, but

[1:09:52] We're going to have to look at other

[1:09:53] means than going after

[1:09:55] the landowners, at least where I

[1:09:56] live. And, uh, I'm,

[1:09:57] I'm definitely behind all of this,

[1:09:59] but we just have to figure out

[1:10:00] another path. >> No,

[1:10:02] we, we, we 100% agree

[1:10:03] with you because when we first started

[1:10:05] coming up here, we were trying to get

[1:10:06] the cap, a state

[1:10:08] question to get the cap on the 3

[1:10:09] mills removed so that people

[1:10:11] could vote whatever they

[1:10:12] wanted, you know.

[1:10:14] And of course, big

[1:10:15] landowners, big

[1:10:16] companies that have big stakes in

[1:10:18] property taxes

[1:10:20] really fought that and got rid of

[1:10:21] that. And then, uh,

[1:10:23] with Representative Newton

[1:10:24] and we got House Bill

[1:10:25] 1960 passed, that was the

[1:10:27] 1 in sales tax.

[1:10:28] So there's

[1:10:29] now

[1:10:31] A means to do it,

[1:10:33] to, to change the, the,

[1:10:35] the funding because you're you're

[1:10:36] 100% right. Nobody wants to vote

[1:10:37] more property tax, especially

[1:10:39] like in Bryan County, over 60%

[1:10:40] of all the property is

[1:10:41] rental.

[1:10:44] And so you only have

[1:10:45] 40% of the people

[1:10:46] paying

[1:10:48] for the ambulance service

[1:10:50] and probably the 60% are the

[1:10:51] ones calling the

[1:10:52] ambulance.

[1:10:56] >> Go ahead. I'm

[1:10:57] good.

[1:10:59] Thank y'all. Uh, any other

[1:11:00] questions?

[1:11:03] >> I just, please just to that, um,

[1:11:04] and the other thing that's a little scary

[1:11:06] at the moment is just all the

[1:11:08] conversations and the political

[1:11:09] environment of removing property

[1:11:11] taxes definitely

[1:11:12] has us, you know,

[1:11:14] saying, hey, what are we gonna

[1:11:16] do if that happens? So

[1:11:17] just something else to kind of keep

[1:11:19] in mind and I know some of it

[1:11:20] has been, oh, we'll just do it

[1:11:22] to, you know, seniors

[1:11:23] or what, but any front

[1:11:25] cut to that.

[1:11:27] revenue stream you can

[1:11:28] see is would be

[1:11:30] drastic,

[1:11:31] so. Something

[1:11:33] to keep in mind moving

[1:11:34] forward.

[1:11:36] >> Uh bobby,

[1:11:38] you hadn't, I mean,

[1:11:39] brother,

[1:11:40] brothers,

[1:11:42] oh, I know. I mean, like I said,

[1:11:44] but still this is, this

[1:11:45] is, you

[1:11:46] hit

[1:11:50] but, but

[1:11:51] no,

[1:11:55] from, from my point

[1:11:56] of interest, but like I said,

[1:11:57] this is just that's what I

[1:11:59] love about you know studies

[1:12:00] and I want to thank

[1:12:02] our audience too, but

[1:12:03] still you have any

[1:12:04] closing.

[1:12:07] Oh, no, no,

[1:12:08] I'm good, happy to

[1:12:10] answer any questions or back over

[1:12:11] to Representsky

[1:12:13] just, uh,

[1:12:15] close it out and like I said,

[1:12:17] guys, this, this is

[1:12:18] great information. Like I said, it's

[1:12:20] just, I've been texting

[1:12:21] my EMS

[1:12:23] guy. I mean, Brian

[1:12:24] knows him very well and like I said, he's a

[1:12:26] dear friend of mine and just we

[1:12:27] have. I mean,

[1:12:28] just get out and

[1:12:30] talk to the people and

[1:12:32] see and I'm

[1:12:33] only share one other story

[1:12:35] about my

[1:12:35] EMS.

[1:12:37] In Oklahoma every now and then we

[1:12:38] have

[1:12:40] Roadblocks

[1:12:41] traffic.

[1:12:43] A train

[1:12:44] going to our paper

[1:12:45] mill.

[1:12:47] buddy of mine had a heart

[1:12:49] attack.

[1:12:50] My EMS

[1:12:51] ambulance sitting

[1:12:53] trying to get across that train track

[1:12:55] so long the driver had to

[1:12:56] get out or he got out

[1:12:58] and helped the medics in

[1:12:59] the back give

[1:13:00] CPR.

[1:13:03] I can say my dear friend didn't

[1:13:05] make it. I don't only

[1:13:06] good lord knows if but

[1:13:08] still that's still some

[1:13:09] of the battles we have in

[1:13:10] rural Oklahoma

[1:13:12] because

[1:13:13] you

[1:13:15] And that's that's

[1:13:16] another so it, but anyhow, thank

[1:13:18] you.

[1:13:19] >> Well, thank you again,

[1:13:21] Chairman Dempsey

[1:13:22] for allowing

[1:13:23] us the opportunity

[1:13:24] here

[1:13:26] And the conversation

[1:13:28] that that we've had

[1:13:29] Bobby talking about this,

[1:13:31] uh it's obvious there are

[1:13:32] no easy

[1:13:34] solutions.

[1:13:35] I think there are some adjustments

[1:13:37] to be made in

[1:13:39] in some of my

[1:13:40] counties that the

[1:13:41] map showed

[1:13:42] obviously multiple

[1:13:44] districts, uh,

[1:13:45] multiple funding there

[1:13:47] the the challenges of

[1:13:49] of even that, you know,

[1:13:50] consolidation

[1:13:52] may need to be

[1:13:53] done where it makes sense,

[1:13:55] but. When

[1:13:57] you, when you make

[1:13:58] changes in what

[1:14:00] has been voted on,

[1:14:01] you know, before, when you're talking

[1:14:03] a particular school

[1:14:04] district that

[1:14:05] may encompass

[1:14:07] some folks from

[1:14:08] two or three

[1:14:09] counties, you

[1:14:11] know, the opportunity to

[1:14:12] bring money

[1:14:14] into your county from

[1:14:15] a neighbour,

[1:14:17] uh.

[1:14:18] Go away if you

[1:14:20] dissolve those

[1:14:21] and go back to a countywide

[1:14:23] system. The

[1:14:24] cumulative total would

[1:14:26] be less than what

[1:14:27] we're doing today,

[1:14:28] so

[1:14:30] I'm open to ideas

[1:14:31] and suggestions and

[1:14:33] those of you in the room

[1:14:34] that that

[1:14:36] have a stake in this as

[1:14:37] well. if

[1:14:39] we have

[1:14:40] ideas.

[1:14:43] The treatment in place

[1:14:44] is an

[1:14:45] option. we're

[1:14:47] certainly open

[1:14:48] to to doing whatever

[1:14:50] you guys think will

[1:14:51] help and

[1:14:52] I was

[1:14:54] hopeful that

[1:14:55] we might have more

[1:14:57] ideas and and and that

[1:14:58] my ignorance was going to

[1:15:00] be illustrated in

[1:15:01] here that why haven't we

[1:15:03] done this yet, but

[1:15:04] it's not it's not easy

[1:15:06] obviously but we do need

[1:15:07] to keep up

[1:15:09] the work and try and.

[1:15:10] Communicate. Yes, Bobby, >> we

[1:15:12] will provide some, some, some

[1:15:13] thoughts to you guys on that.

[1:15:15] we're still fleshing them out, but we know we

[1:15:17] have some other state options that we

[1:15:18] want to look at. But we've got a

[1:15:20] little bit of time, so we'll definitely present

[1:15:21] that to the committee so that

[1:15:23] you can chew on them and we can craft

[1:15:24] something with an Oklahoma flair to it.

[1:15:26] But we, we will be bringing you

[1:15:27] >> some stuff. Well, I would

[1:15:29] appreciate that. I'm sure the other members

[1:15:31] would as well, and thank you

[1:15:32] guys for, for being here

[1:15:33] as well. And, and,

[1:15:35] uh, we'll continue

[1:15:36] the conversation, Mr.

[1:15:37] Chairman. >> Hey

[1:15:39] Eddie, can I say something?

[1:15:40] Go ahead. Um, I was

[1:15:42] gonna kind of clarify. I know there

[1:15:43] was a question about districts and

[1:15:45] multiple districts inside

[1:15:46] of a county.

[1:15:48] Um, if they've passed the

[1:15:49] 522.

[1:15:51] District if they've passed if the

[1:15:53] people pass that.

[1:15:54] Typically what happens,

[1:15:56] and there may be

[1:15:57] variations to this, but

[1:15:59] typically what happens is the county

[1:16:00] commissioners will establish the board

[1:16:01] just like what she was saying.

[1:16:03] And then that board

[1:16:04] will, there's a lot of

[1:16:06] places and a lot of counties that

[1:16:07] didn't have EMS

[1:16:09] but like a city might

[1:16:10] have funded the

[1:16:12] bills and stuff like that.

[1:16:14] And so they did vote like

[1:16:15] a bond of the 522

[1:16:17] district in, and then the,

[1:16:18] the 522

[1:16:20] district board

[1:16:21] then contracted to

[1:16:23] those cities.

[1:16:25] Because the, the, the constitution

[1:16:26] allows that, that the 522

[1:16:28] district can

[1:16:29] contract. So

[1:16:31] in a lot of places you have,

[1:16:32] um, different counties that

[1:16:34] have contracted

[1:16:35] to certain cities that may have

[1:16:37] already started running EMS

[1:16:38] and kind of gives them a subsidy

[1:16:40] out of that 520, that out

[1:16:41] of that millage. So

[1:16:43] that's sometimes how you

[1:16:44] get multiple

[1:16:46] agencies all over the

[1:16:47] place, um,

[1:16:48] and, and so on. And

[1:16:50] then, um.

[1:16:51] You were talking about solutions

[1:16:53] and things like that and then

[1:16:54] want to deal. And I know last year we

[1:16:56] passed a bill,

[1:16:58] uh, Senate Bill

[1:16:59] 240 or

[1:17:00] 405 something

[1:17:02] anyway, Senate bill,

[1:17:03] and it got signed and it made

[1:17:05] EMS essential

[1:17:07] for the purposes of

[1:17:08] federal

[1:17:08] funding.

[1:17:11] That's it.

[1:17:13] We're not essential.

[1:17:14] We're in the state of Oklahoma,

[1:17:16] there's only, we're

[1:17:18] one of, I think

[1:17:19] 17 states that has some

[1:17:20] variation of calling EMS

[1:17:22] essential,

[1:17:24] but

[1:17:24] there's

[1:17:26] Less than 5

[1:17:28] states that

[1:17:29] consider EMS an essential

[1:17:31] service. And remember we're talking

[1:17:32] about fire is considered

[1:17:33] essential, you can't do without

[1:17:35] it. Police

[1:17:36] is essential. you can't do without

[1:17:37] it. Both of them are mentioned

[1:17:39] in the constitution, like

[1:17:41] way back that you will have a police chief

[1:17:42] or a volunteer fire department,

[1:17:44] you will have a

[1:17:45] sheriff. E

[1:17:46] ems is only mentioned in Article

[1:17:48] X as a funding

[1:17:49] stream.

[1:17:51] But we're not

[1:17:53] essential. House Bill 1887

[1:17:55] was passed several years back

[1:17:56] that says county commissioners will have a

[1:17:58] plan for

[1:17:59] EMS. That

[1:18:01] plan could be called

[1:18:02] the next county.

[1:18:04] It doesn't say you will have an

[1:18:06] ambulance. It doesn't say you will

[1:18:07] fund an ambulance. It doesn't say you

[1:18:09] will do anything.

[1:18:10] So

[1:18:12] A real big push for

[1:18:14] us would be

[1:18:15] to be considered essential.

[1:18:16] During COVID,

[1:18:18] we were on the 6th

[1:18:20] tier to get the

[1:18:21] COVID shot if

[1:18:23] you wanted it.

[1:18:25] Record drivers were

[1:18:27] on the first tier.

[1:18:28] And we were on 6th. We

[1:18:30] were in the bedrooms

[1:18:31] wading through snot rags,

[1:18:33] wading through sweats

[1:18:35] and getting in your sweaty bed

[1:18:36] and picking you up and putting you in

[1:18:38] a, 20

[1:18:39] ft square foot

[1:18:41] box and breathing your

[1:18:42] air and doing

[1:18:44] everything with you and we

[1:18:45] were not even considered

[1:18:47] essential.

[1:18:49] So if there's

[1:18:50] one solution, that would be

[1:18:52] to make us

[1:18:53] 100%

[1:18:54] >> but the Senate bill last year did

[1:18:56] not change that.

[1:18:57] >> It only made

[1:18:59] us essential for the

[1:19:00] purposes of federal

[1:19:01] funding.

[1:19:03] >> I have one other

[1:19:04] question.

[1:19:06] >> Uh, going back to

[1:19:07] the Senate bill, Senator Woods ran

[1:19:09] that, uh, on

[1:19:10] our side did it. And

[1:19:12] that was a request

[1:19:13] from our EMS director

[1:19:15] Diane Yell, uh,

[1:19:16] so that they could help get grants. The

[1:19:18] only thing I didn't like about that bill

[1:19:19] was it also threw

[1:19:21] in private

[1:19:22] ambulance.

[1:19:24] You can get that. So

[1:19:25] in our area we have

[1:19:27] Patford, who

[1:19:28] they do serve the area and you pay

[1:19:29] them, but Patford's out of Hope,

[1:19:31] Arkansas.

[1:19:32] That's, that's where their main office is

[1:19:34] at. So anyway, I just wanted to

[1:19:36] throw that in. Yeah, >> and we,

[1:19:37] we supported the bill because we just

[1:19:39] felt like it got our

[1:19:40] foot in the door as at least

[1:19:42] essential, you know, we,

[1:19:43] so now we have another argument to come

[1:19:45] back and we would argue

[1:19:46] with Eddie, but he's leaving

[1:19:47] us,

[1:19:50] so.

[1:19:51] >> I

[1:19:53] I appreciate your your

[1:19:55] comment there, Representative,

[1:19:57] and

[1:19:59] That is something we didn't

[1:20:00] get into here much

[1:20:02] this morning.

[1:20:04] Many communities

[1:20:06] feel like they cannot

[1:20:08] keep up if it was time to

[1:20:09] buy a new ambulance and they

[1:20:11] didn't do it, and

[1:20:12] many have made the decision

[1:20:14] from

[1:20:15] from supporting it publicly

[1:20:17] to a private

[1:20:19] provider and

[1:20:20] then

[1:20:21] what equipment

[1:20:23] is

[1:20:25] Available at that

[1:20:26] time, uh,

[1:20:28] isn't anymore. And, and

[1:20:29] then you go down that

[1:20:31] road and There

[1:20:32] may not be a way back

[1:20:34] at some point in time, so

[1:20:35] I don't want to

[1:20:38] Stir up that conversation

[1:20:39] again, but it is, it is

[1:20:41] part of the,

[1:20:42] uh,

[1:20:43] process, obviously and,

[1:20:44] and again,

[1:20:46] thank you all and

[1:20:48] appreciate your

[1:20:48] input.

[1:20:52] >> Thank y'all everything. Like I

[1:20:53] said, great comments, great

[1:20:55] questions, uh and

[1:20:56] uh and

[1:20:57] we

[1:21:00] like to visit with us we'll be

[1:21:01] around and

[1:21:04] Until about noon that I'm

[1:21:05] going to God's country.

[1:21:07] So, so,

[1:21:08] but thank y'all very, very

[1:21:09] much and thank y'all for

[1:21:11] participating in it's

[1:21:12] great information day. Thank y'all. adjourned.

County and Municipal Government

Transcript