[0:00] Let's start with self-introductions name and your district,

[0:06] as I call to order this first meeting

[0:09] in the Dooley Reconstituted Joint Select Committee

[0:11] on Civic Health.

[0:13] Senator Mazzall.

[0:15] Ron Mazall, 10th legislative district.

[0:18] Senator.

[0:20] Representative Hall.

[0:23] Zach Hall represent the fifth list

[0:25] that a district in East King County.

[0:29] Tom Dan, that represents the 13th legislative district.

[0:33] Senator Rachelli.

[0:34] Senator Marcus Richelli, third legislative districts, Spokane.

[0:38] Representative Ty.

[0:41] Meline Ty, representative of the 41st legislative

[0:46] district, Senator Harris.

[0:49] Paul Harris, 17th district to East Clark County,

[0:52] Scamania, Click-A-Tat,

[0:53] Goldendale, and keeps going.

[0:58] Sir, when I represented it went even further, went all the way to the Bend County

[1:02] line. So no complaining. Oh, come on, Come on. Seriously. Representative Simmons.

[1:12] I representative Simmons from the 23rd legislative district. Welcome one and all.

[1:16] Thank you. We do in fact have a quorum now. I do want to acknowledge the presence of

[1:23] Dr. Julia Carboni from the Rockleshouse Center should be making a presentation later.

[1:28] But before we do that, as a matter of course, I think our authorizing current resolution

[1:36] requires us to name vice chairs, the one from each chamber.

[1:42] Last year we had Senator Mazal, thank you, and Representative Darvar.

[1:48] I have actually talked to a couple of members.

[1:51] If you all want to go a different direction,

[1:52] that's entirely up to you and I'm fine on that.

[1:56] But I thought we should stay consistent with one from each party,

[2:01] one for each chamber and hopefully some other diversity.

[2:07] I've reached out and talked about Senator Rachelli and

[2:11] to Representative Bernard from the House to see if they'd be willing.

[2:15] They both said yes.

[2:16] But again, if somebody's got a better idea, that would be fine.

[2:22] Open into discussion or motion up to you.

[2:26] I make a motion for those two.

[2:29] I'll second it.

[2:30] We'll be seconded that Senator Rachelli

[2:33] and representing Barnard made named vice chairs.

[2:37] Is there any further discussion? All those in favor signify by saying aye.

[2:42] Aye

[2:48] The ayes have it. Thank you very much. So, especially for the benefit of the new members,

[2:53] which include reps, hall, tie, and Simmons and Senator Harris, I guess,

[3:02] I thought that what we would begin with is just kind of an overview of who we are and where we've

[3:06] come from, so that the members have a bit of a sense of it, is you will all recall

[3:15] The concurrent resolution extending this was adopted this year and in fact the membership was

[3:22] expanded because of some prior interest expressed by members. What's important to know is that the

[3:30] Joint Select Committee is a part of a constellation of efforts to advocate for improved civic health

[3:42] The most important element of that, perhaps, was the formation of the Project for Civic Health,

[3:50] which was a partnership between the Office of Lieutenant Governor,

[3:54] the Evans School at the University of Washington,

[3:58] the Ruckel's House Center, which is a WSU and UW operation,

[4:04] and the Henry M. Jackson Foundation. Those four partners were formed actually back in.

[4:11] in 1923. And an awful lot of the efforts, including the creation of this

[4:18] General Committee came out of those efforts and those discussions. I want

[4:25] to back up and give you a sense of all the activities of

[4:29] the Project for Civic Health, because we are in fact a part of that. They're

[4:33] not our umbrella entity, but they're kind of at the center of

[4:36] the spokes of The Wheel.

[4:38] Uh, we formed then several years ago and conducted two statewide summits on this topic,

[4:46] the first of which was several hundred people and Rhett and Robert, I don't remember which.

[4:51] We conducted six intense focus groups of highly diverse participants around the state to get

[5:06] a report based on all that called Common Ground for the Common Good, which is available to you all.

[5:14] It's been sent to most of you in the past. I highly recommend it. It is an excellent piece

[5:19] of work, and very, very sadly, the woman who wrote that, who was a long time fixture in

[5:33] There was a poll conducted at RBS of attitudes about civic health.

[5:39] Those results were shared with all the members of the legislature.

[5:43] It included, sadly, the fact that people self-report that nearly one in four Washingtonians have

[5:50] stopped speaking altogether to either a friend or a family member, quote, because of politics.

[6:01] We have a regular newsletter that goes to hundreds of people and organizations throughout the state.

[6:09] And then some of the most important work I think we've done was to develop the three tenets

[6:16] of healthy civic engagement. And these have all been communicated to you before, but I want

[6:21] to remind you what they are because they're our touchstones. They are engaged respectfully,

[6:30] They disagree constructively.

[6:34] We in fact have asked for people to sign a pledge affirming their commitment to those three tenants and hundreds and 100s of people have.

[6:43] They do that through our website.

[6:45] So some of the things that have come out of.

[6:49] The project include the joint select committee.

[6:58] But the acronym stands for Washington collaborative elected leaders Institute. Thank you. The Rockwell's house center directly inspired by the project formulated a plan to work with city council people from throughout the state.

[7:14] Basically to help them work better across differences and collaborate more effectively.

[7:26] a resounding success. The University of Washington has formed a civic

[7:32] health initiative and it's more complicated than I could possibly

[7:36] explain. Dean Jody Sandford is a part of that.

[7:42] The Rocosale Center also engages in something called

[7:46] Communities of Practice, which are regular salons or

[7:50] group discussions and communities to discuss these kinds of things.

[7:54] The Joint Select Committee itself, as you will all recall, was the sponsor of orientation

[8:02] efforts two years ago after the election for new members in which we brought in an excellent

[8:09] speaker from the Institute for Civil Discourse who had worked with legislatures throughout

[8:15] the country.

[8:23] for civic health of the legislature and as such,

[8:28] an immediate aftermath of

[8:30] the tragic assassinations of

[8:33] the elected officials in Minnesota issued

[8:35] a statement about it.

[8:38] Looking forward, the project for

[8:40] civic Health is now out in

[8:42] the field soliciting micro grant applications,

[8:47] small two to $5,000 micro grants,

[8:52] Community groups want to have an event at which they can bring this issue to the forefront in their community and elevate its profile and talk about what is needed, what action steps are needed in order to promote more civic health.

[9:08] So I just wanted to put all of that in perspective for you that this joint select committee operates within that constellation of efforts.

[9:17] Inspired by it in park and we kind of frankly have a synergistic fee off of one another effort and sometimes the lines that.

[9:26] Separate us become pretty blurred because we're all a part of the same overall effort. So with that, I want to just stop and see if any of you have any questions about how we got to where we were at.

[9:49] I was a tenant governor. Do you say anything? I

[9:53] was thinking about this. Because I could. There's a couple of things I got. I'm only kidding.

[10:00] I am only getting. Thank you, Paul.

[10:08] I have exactly the same question, Senator Harris. That's like seriously, but then it got what.

[10:18] The 17th legislative district tends to elect the honorees to people being back a very long

[10:25] period of time. Okay. So, next item of agenda, a presentation by Dr. Carboni. Now, as I said,

[10:45] One of the ways that that is played out is that there is a group that Julie will explain

[10:51] that engages in things a thing called Citizens Assembly

[10:56] They do this all over literally the world, but including in the country and she'll explain that more

[11:02] They needed somebody to kind of bless it from within state government earlier

[11:08] And I raised my hand because Julie asked me to

[11:12] So that she could begin

[11:14] getting involved in it. But now they are talking with her about the prospect of holding one of

[11:20] these citizen assemblies in Washington state. And our purpose here today is to see what your

[11:33] reaction is, to it, and if you've got any particular feedback for Julia,

[11:43] For such an activity

[11:47] Ron do you have your hand up or

[11:50] me, you know

[11:52] See a white hand there on your no, it's a tree in the background. No, It's in. The foreground. There's oh, I don't have a hand

[12:01] Yeah, your glasses check lately. Yes, okay. I'm done. Hey, welcome

[12:08] We are we did self-introductions at the beginning if you

[12:12] Be so kind. Indicate your name and your legislative district.

[12:20] Sure, um, for Andy, Donnie, I'm.

[12:23] We're up in the 44th legislative District in beautiful Snohomish County.

[12:27] And I am still having technical issues, but I, am here.

[12:30] We can see you and hear you find and welcome to the joint select committee on civic health.

[12:35] We are delighted to have you.

[12:37] Dr. Carboni take it away, please.

[12:41] All right, I'm going to share my screen, but while I am getting that up,

[12:46] I just wanted to give you a little bit of context on this presentation.

[12:51] I promise I will go through fairly quickly.

[12:55] So last year we were invited to be part of a delegation of states that included Pennsylvania, Utah, Kentucky, and Maryland to learn about citizen assemblies in the United States modeled after some work that's being done in EU, but also in smaller regional governments and Brussels and parts of Belgium.

[13:16] And I'll talk a little bit more about what a citizen assembly is.

[13:20] But I served as the designee for the lieutenant governor's office to go and learn about these

[13:26] citizen assemblies and think about how they might fit into the project for civic health.

[13:32] And so I'll go through that, but I just want to preface this with, you know,

[13:39] Part of this comes out of the desire from legislators to have more public participation

[13:47] as found in the Evans report that the Lieutenant Governor mentioned before.

[13:51] And so this is another form of public

[13:53] participation and is not meant to supplant the role of legislators in any way.

[14:00] And then the other thing I want to say is I'm not asking for money today.

[14:04] We're just looking for a blessing to potentially move forward with doing some design.

[14:09] on this. We have some funders who are potentially interested in funding this,

[14:13] so I just want to say that upfront because I know that we're coming into a very rough budget

[14:17] environment. So again, why this and why now? The committee's own findings.

[14:24] So, again the report that was commissioned by the Joint Select Committee on Civic Health.

[14:29] that was performed by the Evans School found that there was a significant lack of trust both within

[14:34] the legislature but also between the public and the legislator. And there

[14:37] was one recommendation that, there needed to be more avenues for public participation

[14:42] so that folks who weren't just the usual suspects could come and be a part of the

[14:51] We also thought this was an opportune time because SCR 8406 reauthorizes the committee through January of 2029 and so this could be an opportunity for the joint select committee and civic health to have sort of a signature initiative.

[15:06] And so what we would like to talk about is a statewide citizens initiative potentially in 2027 that is advisory to the legislature and to this committee on the topic of this community choosing and I'll talk more about that in just a second.

[15:20] So, what is the Citizens' Assembly?

[15:23] Often this is confused with things like community assemblies or other types of gatherings that

[15:29] bring folks together.

[15:30] A Citizens Assembly is different in that it's a representative group of randomly chosen

[15:36] people.

[15:39] public body that they're working with to develop a collective informed proposal on a particular

[15:44] policy issue. So, for example, in the EU, the most recent EU citizens assembly focused on AI

[15:52] governance in The European Union, and there were representatives from all European union

[15:59] member states coming together over a course of time to make recommendations to the

[16:05] This didn't mean that the EU government had to accept the recommendations instead they received

[16:11] them and agreed to at least respond to them even if it was we can't do that because of X, Y, and Z.

[16:18] What was really powerful about this assembly, beyond just engaging people in the public process, was we started to see relationships develop among participants across various nations, including those that have historically not gotten along with each other.

[16:33] And so they were really modeling these three core tenets of the project for civic health to engage with respect, seek common ground and disagree constructively.

[16:42] We know from research by Feed A North America and others that this results in lasting improved perceptions of public policy, of government, and of fellow citizens.

[16:54] And so instead of the assembly starts with a lottery, so selection by sortition, a clear remit or question for the group to consider, and then adequate time typically this occurs in person over a number of weekends or a couple of days together sometimes with virtual pieces in between.

[17:13] And then we also see as part of this.

[17:18] a diverse information so often that the participants themselves will make requests of the information

[17:24] that they might need to make a recommendation. There's shared learning so the groups learn

[17:30] together and you know whatever sort of preconceived notions they come in with, they learn together

[17:42] This is a deliberation and not a debate, and the group issues a final report that includes,

[17:50] you know, how folks felt about the issue as a group, including minority positions.

[17:55] The final hallmark of this is responsiveness of the legislative or governmental body that

[18:00] commissioned the report. And again, this isn't about agreeing to do everything that a citizen

[18:04] assembly says, but it's about creating a relationship with citizens. In examples that we observed,

[18:12] In Belgium we saw that there were opportunities for legislators to say hey that's not sort of within our set of competencies and this is why we can't address it. So there's also learning about the legislative process that happens.

[18:25] This has been done over 700 times across the world. It's just starting to catch on in the United States. There's currently is an assembly happening in Connecticut right now.

[18:35] And then we've had some smaller examples, which I'll talk about in a second, of

[18:38] where regional, county, or city governments. But what we have seen in 34 countries is an

[18:43] 80,000 plus people have participated in Ireland,

[18:47] which is most famous example. A citizen assembly actually created a language for

[18:53] constitutional amendment for referendum for constitutional amendments. What's really

[19:04] access and on gay marriage and so when the groups got together they didn't necessarily

[19:11] change the minds of all the people in the group but they did come together and practice these

[19:16] three principles engaging with respect seeking common ground and disagreeing constructively

[19:21] and what people said about the process was that they felt like they better understood their

[19:31] Another notable thing about this is that the person who organized this, his name is Art

[19:36] O'Leary, so that at the end of their citizen assembly, he had the group of 100 people actually

[19:41] vote on it to see how they would come out. And it matched the referendum vote of the entire

[19:48] population of Ireland within a percentage point. So this was pretty representative.

[19:54] And again, it wasn't to necessarily change people's minds. It was to create language

[20:00] And then also just set up these these types of relationships. It was wildly successful

[20:04] And we've also seen this in North America in particularly in Canada

[20:08] There were some climate citizen assemblies and then we see it in smaller areas cities things like this listed here

[20:15] repal

[20:17] Thank you. Is this what Snohomish County just did?

[20:20] Yes, no, they did a citizen assembly. It was on a much smaller scale. And the report for that will be coming out fairly soon. There were some things that we might do differently.

[20:33] But yes, this is essentially what they do. They send out the invitations to random sample of the population, and then they brought them together to talk about AI use and snow.

[20:49] I'm having a hard time on occasion hearing you.

[20:52] Okay. Let me see if I can make this closer. Is that better?

[20:58] Yes. We also turned it up on this end.

[21:01] Oh, okay. I was going to say I won't move, but maybe I'll use your sound.

[21:07] the version of Citizens Assembly in Snohomish, did you?

[21:11] We did not conduct the Snuhomich Citizen Assembly.

[21:16] We do, they did partner with Feed A North America

[21:19] for the evaluation piece, and so that evaluation

[21:22] will be coming in soon.

[21:24] Feed a North Americas, the group that hosted our delegation

[21:27] with other states to learn about citizen assembly,

[21:30] so, that's the connection.

[21:32] And they have expertise and also connections to the FDA Europe.

[21:37] So why, why Washington? Why civic health? So the lieutenant governor has already outlined quite a bit of this information, which came from the poll, the L.A. research poll and that Washingtonians have seen an increase in sort of.

[21:55] not civic health, right? So worried about the future of democracy, stop talking to friends and

[21:59] family. And so sort of as an antidote to that, what we have seen in research on those who've

[22:06] participated in citizens assemblies and other places is increased trust from government or

[22:11] in government. So up by almost it's almost doubled.

[22:18] More empathy for differing perspective. So this is what we're trying to do in the project for civic health. We're not necessarily trying

[22:23] To change people's minds about how they think about politics or policy issues

[22:28] But we are trying

[22:29] To think how can we come together and create these human connections and practice the principles and what?

[22:34] We've seen over and over again and citizen assemblies as people living these ideals and changing

[22:39] them in

[22:41] The process and how? They view government

[22:44] One thing I just, I want to continue to say is that, you know, the citizen assembly isn't about getting to consensus on an issue. There are votes and the minority views are recorded alongside the majority views.

[22:56] Washington has had a number of things that have already happened that support sort of doing this now. So there's been a climate assembly.

[23:07] Which was run by a nonprofit. There was no legislative commitment to respond. But this was fairly successful community assembly where it wasn't a statistically representative sample of the population.

[23:20] But it was a group that came together in sort of a deliberative process.

[23:33] Climate Commitment Act and climate change.

[23:36] Members here were not chosen by lottery until it wasn't a representative sample and there were lots of reasons to do that which I can talk about later.

[23:44] And then the Snohomish County Assembly on AI was the latest example, which was just touched on a second ago.

[24:02] the group that comes together as representative of the state of Washington. The other states

[24:08] that are a part of our delegation with Feed A North America to learn about citizens assemblies

[24:14] are Maryland, Pennsylvania, Utah, and Kentucky. They are in varying stages of hosting citizen

[24:20] assemblies in their states, including some capacity building academies with feed A

[24:25] North American, really learning about designing a question and more about the process.

[24:32] And so it works, you know, sortition works.

[24:35] we have random invitation, we invite 10 to 30,000 people hoping to whittle down to 100.

[24:42] We invite so many people because we want to have a stratified lottery that to make sure that

[24:47] whatever group comes together is representative of folks in the state of Washington and isn't

[24:53] over sampled on any particular demographic characteristic. As we saw in The Republic of

[24:58] Ireland, which has about five and a half million people, 100 people came to the same conclusion

[25:05] you know, electorate in the state of or in

[25:09] the country of Ireland. And so if you design the process really well and bring

[25:13] together a representative sample, you're likely to get results that would yield

[25:17] to the entire population. So we would want to stratify a number of different

[25:24] things on the advice of this group and we can talk more about that but we don't

[25:29] have to know.

[25:30] So the way this looks, what we're thinking here, and this is completely open to, you know, change.

[25:39] But we were thinking that it might be a great idea if this group wants to,

[25:44] as to continue, is to start thinking about what a remit or a question might

[25:48] be and to do a workshop with Feed A North America late this year to early next year,

[25:53] and then to actually set in motion the process in spring of 2027 and

[25:59] then have learning and deliberation sessions over the late spring, early

[26:08] to the legislature involved 2027.

[26:11] And again, the legislator,

[26:12] the committee would receive it,

[26:13] but would not be bound to saying,

[26:15] yes, we're going to do everything you said,

[26:17] but they would just be responsive to it.

[26:20] So our question today is what is the interest in this type of participatory process, what kinds of questions would you want to representative group of Washingtonians to take up.

[26:31] And so it could be just broad topics.

[26:34] And then how would the committee be involved in setting the remit and designing the process.

[26:46] Also to say that, you know, if you go forward,

[26:49] this isn't agreeing to do it.

[26:50] It allows us to go

[26:51] forward to potential funders to

[26:53] say the legislature is potentially on board

[26:57] and we can start designing the process.

[27:01] Comments.

[27:06] Bernard, we were doing

[27:09] self-introductions earlier by district as well.

[27:12] By the way, congratulations.

[27:13] You're the new vice chair.

[27:15] of the joint select meeting of Civic Health.

[27:18] We elected you in your absence,

[27:20] maybe because of your absences,

[27:22] but staff introduction, please, Steph.

[27:28] Stephanie Barnard, I am House of Representatives

[27:33] for the 8th Legislative District.

[27:34] Thank you very much and I apologize.

[27:36] I struggled to get onto the meeting today.

[27:38] I don't know what-

[27:40] the problem was, but I'm glad I am here now. I wasn't added as a panelist until I think it was

[27:47] like 18 minutes after the hour. So I, I not quite sure what I did wrong. But here I

[27:53] am now and thank you very much for voting on.

[27:56] I thought the presentation was great.

[27:58] I just came back from climate week in New York City.

[28:04] was so pleased to be invited to

[28:07] be in New York City and also

[28:09] pleased serve on the National

[28:11] Caucus of Environmental Legislators.

[28:13] It got me thinking about

[28:15] I was invited

[28:16] to speak about electrification in front of.

[28:18] I mean, I can't say that I

[28:21] was the only Republican but in

[28:23] New New york for climate wake,

[28:25] but I felt like it and you know,

[28:30] but it was such an honor, it's such a honor. So this kind of reminds me of something like that,

[28:34] where I didn't have a problem. I felt like everyone there was extremely respectful and

[28:41] they were extremely interested in hearing from someone from the other side of the aisle

[28:46] about electrification and different environmental issues.

[28:52] I can't say, you know, I don't use the word,

[28:59] But I think there are ways of having these conversations.

[29:03] I'm some of the examples that you had mentioned, Julia, were good.

[29:13] But we can talk about natural resources,

[29:16] we talk the environment,

[29:19] we talked about electrification,

[29:21] AI data centers, something like that.

[29:23] Ithink the program that

[29:25] you've set forward, at least in

[29:26] the example that is shared with us.

[29:29] I would love to see something like that happen.

[29:32] And I think we can do it in a way that can be meaningful

[29:36] for everyone involved and it doesn't have to be controversial.

[29:40] I mean, you had brought up the abortion

[29:43] and I I, I

[29:44] think that's something we want to avoid.

[29:46] But, but I do think there are plenty of things like,

[29:51] I consider myself an environment like I can love the environment.

[29:55] I want to take good care of it.

[29:57] I think if we can wrap ourselves around some common ground

[30:01] and meet and have discussions about potentially

[30:04] our concerns with AI and data centers or electrification

[30:07] or whatever the case may be, I

[30:09] think it's really, really important

[30:11] to have those conversations.

[30:13] And I just I had a question for you, Julie,

[30:16] and that is so you pick from a lottery

[30:20] and is that of people that.

[30:23] like voters or how do you, how is that lottery,

[30:26] how you pick or who's the lottery made up of? That's my question.

[30:32] So the lot of is made-up of voters from across the state and it's possible that we could do

[30:37] adult Washingtonians and we would then send an invitation out and

[30:47] you would get responses back and we would then take those responses and stratify the sample to

[30:53] make sure that we had representation from all 39 counties and then we can decide what other

[30:58] demographic characteristics we might want to sample on to make that sure we were representing

[31:03] the state of Washington so the group looks like the State. So voters and people that actually voted

[31:13] Dr. Carbone, before we get to Rep. Paul and Rep Pie, who have their hands up, just to make sure that people understand what the expectation is here.

[31:24] Two questions. One, there was that graphic on the bottom of one of your slides that said we're not asking for any money today.

[31:39] Some point because they got no money just to be clear. I've heard that

[31:46] We're not asking for money

[31:47] So we have been doing some fundraising around this and we

[31:50] Have a couple of funders who are interested in doing this potentially as a pilot in Washington state

[31:55] The idea is that you know this type of innovative

[32:00] The thing that the state hasn't done before is probably best suited for philanthropy to fund in the beginning and that if the State really thinks this is worthwhile and meaningful could potentially fund it in future, but we're not looking for that right now.

[32:15] We will do it.

[32:16] Or this citizens assembly, you're, not, looking, for any money.

[32:20] No, no money to.

[32:23] Aside from.

[32:26] This committee's.

[32:29] on development of the remit as an example.

[32:32] Is there an expectation that members would have to attend these multiple meetings as well?

[32:41] No, not necessarily. I mean,

[32:43] there have been models where that happened.

[32:45] So in Brussels, regional government,

[32:48] the folks do attend, the legislators do

[32:50] attend and part of that is to build

[32:52] relationships and help educate folks on

[32:53] the legislative process. But we could

[32:56] definitely design it without and so

[32:57] between the Ruckel's House Center and

[32:59] our Project for Civic Health Corps

[33:00] partners we can design the process

[33:02] under your advisement. They wouldn't have

[33:04] to if they didn't want to. No.

[33:06] Doesn't come with the package. Rep. Hall.

[33:12] Yeah thank you. I think it's a really

[33:14] Interesting idea worth exploring. It reminds me a lot of, you know, I come to the legislature by way of

[33:20] the Esterquosity Council and we did a lotta community task forces where this sounds very similar

[33:25] where we would stand up a task force for a particular issue. We did three while I was on council,

[33:31] one around long-term capital financing for like buildings, another around

[33:38] a particular building and we would it's not representative so it was not randomly selected as people would apply and then there would be specific remit set by the city council and the group.

[33:51] would come up with the process by which they'll make decisions, things like that, like all of that

[33:55] is kind of left up to them and then a recommendation is then sent to the legislative body. And we

[34:00] always found that really helpful and interesting. I think the only caution that I see in this space,

[34:06] and again, I thing is a great idea. We should we should look into it more is

[34:13] anyone who has done this before, is there ever the temptation just outsource some of like the

[34:20] We are the legislature, right? We're selected by the voters to dig into the big problems,

[34:25] right. So I think just making sure we're aware of that tension maybe would be helpful, like

[34:31] making, sure, we are not taking the biggest problems and saying, you know what,

[34:35] we just going to take this out of our responsibility and give it to someone else.

[34:39] Because that's why we were paid to answer big questions.

[34:44] I was going to say this isn't meant to supplant the legislature at all, but it's just, you know,

[34:48] it is an opportunity to get more feedback. And so the issues that rep Bernard mentioned are

[34:53] certainly big ones in the state of Washington where it might be useful to hear citizens.

[35:06] I am supportive of the idea. I wanted to start with that.

[35:11] I have have various conversation with you lieutenant governors and just kind of like a quick touch base with Dr.

[35:31] Bellevue which occupy both the 41st and the 48th legislative district. The latest information that

[35:45] eligible voters are deemed born outside the United States, outside, like born in another country,

[35:55] and in my conversation through various engagement, whether through the CDAPL view,

[36:03] other non-profits really looking at the ideas of feeding kids, feeding elders, all of that.

[36:12] We've learned that people believe civics mean following the laws, stay away from cops.

[36:23] And that's that, and that civicks.

[36:25] and live peacefully.

[36:30] And I have shared with both you and Dr. Capone

[36:34] that I had the interest of organizing

[36:38] within the east side of King County,

[36:42] really the question of what is civics

[36:47] and how do we engage in that conversation

[36:50] so that

[36:51] up and down across how do we move that conversation so we have more

[36:58] season engaging and so I am I'm very interested in the idea and I would love

[37:07] for us to really digging in and figuring out how to engage up

[37:12] public because we are simply the representative of the public and if we don't get a public that

[37:19] engage with us, then all of a sudden, from my perspective, we do not truly represent the large

[37:34] And so, one thing I would say about that is that the Citizen Assembly can definitely help with that engagement, but the Ruckles Health Center will also have a toolkit for legislators sometime in October on public engagement that it is not necessarily as formal of a process with

[38:04] How to better engage with folks in your districts.

[38:07] Senator, Charlie.

[38:09] Thank you, Mr 10 governor.

[38:14] I think I have some similar comments to wrap tie.

[38:19] Around the civic engagement piece, but I was just wondering, along with this.

[38:24] I mean, it's a great tool to then again, maybe educate folks who aren't even

[38:28] participating who don't react to self selecting in.

[38:34] I think in addition to respectful discourse and just having a broader discussion on what

[38:40] the public square is and what is our kind of shared commitment to that, I

[38:45] think one of the interesting pieces by doing this I

[38:48] think you have also a hope to talk about the why, not just to get good feedback from

[38:53] folks who maybe aren't engaging as much as they should be or want to be because of barriers but

[39:02] our collective commitment. I think we've kind of

[39:06] strayed away from this and it seems like a good tool

[39:09] to also spur that on. So I'd be interested in that piece as well

[39:14] because there's a whole bunch of people that won't, if it, you know, I don't know

[39:16] how big the ascent, it sounds like, generally for something like this,

[39:19] you'd need to be trying to get to like 100 people. Is that what I heard?

[39:21] Yeah, yeah.

[39:22] So there are tons of

[39:23] people, like why are they even doing this

[39:26] Washington state? So that's, that was kind

[39:32] I think the topic is something that would be really interesting for this group to try

[39:40] and navigate through.

[39:41] Yeah.

[39:42] Thank you.

[39:43] Senator Harris, you had your hand up.

[39:45] Yes.

[39:46] Thank You Lieutenant Governor.

[39:47] I wasn't sure as kind of where Marcus or Senator Rachelli was going at the end is the

[39:53] topic to me is of interest.

[39:55] Representative Barnard mentioned a couple things, but I have a data center in my area

[40:01] construction that had its own power that was producing, it's going to produce its

[40:06] own, power. It was a hydro project that

[40:08] was going pump water up in self-storage and water from the Columbia River.

[40:12] It's very self sustaining. Data centers to me would be an interesting topic. So

[40:18] they stopped what they were going do to do, due to last session, and are going

[40:30] Uh, I think the misunderstanding, uh, at least on my end, um, as I studied more at every golf course uses as much water as a data center and I'm a golfer I maybe we should start shutting down golf courses. I don't know. Um, so,

[40:44] um.

[40:45] I just think that that, that to me is an interesting topic. So just one of many, and sure.

[40:51] Yeah, definitely.

[41:00] interest in this overall idea.

[41:05] And so I want to quickly go through those that haven't spoken and just get an indication from rep debt.

[41:15] Thank you, Lieutenant Governor. So, you know, I find an interesting concept and I agree with actually everyone who has spoken here.

[41:24] You know, one is how are we going to engage folks who right now absolutely don't trust the government and even more

[41:30] They don t trust us as legislators, okay, and and no matter what seemed like what we do

[41:35] They'll find a reason that we should be thrown out somehow

[41:39] But and I don' t know how we open those lines of communication and maybe this is a way

[41:44] I'm sitting here thinking about how can we

[41:47] Uh, do this, uh, not for carbonyl, and get people who engage with us and tell us what's really happening within themselves.

[41:54] Uh.

[41:55] Uh and that would be my concern. So I have a town hall in a, in where I live in Moses Lake and 30,000 plus people here and 20 people show up.

[42:06] Okay.

[42:07] I am a Town Hall in.

[42:10] Cleallum where there's I don't know less than 2,000 people live and there'll be 200 people show up

[42:15] Okay, so how do you how you get around that people in the small rural areas need to be more engaged in their country?

[42:21] And what is going on than the people and the cities and that's but our majority of people living in urban areas, right?

[42:26] So how did we correct that nut I that that concerns me and and I was sitting here thinking oh

[42:35] You know, we want to do something like this. So, how we take

[42:39] ourselves as a body and use that as an example to the people we want to come

[42:46] and explain this idea to. How do we show them that we're doing what we

[42:51] want them to do? You know, does that make sense a little bit?

[42:56] Yeah, absolutely.

[42:59] Yeah, and I think that, you know, a lot of this comes down to the design and the technical

[43:03] expertise to get folks in the room and then to keep them there.

[43:07] Another thing that I didn't say but is usually a part of the equation is that folks are compensated

[43:11] for their time as part this and so that becomes incentive to bring folks to that table.

[43:23] could be another another thing that we say here's how we rebuild civic health, right? And, you know, part of it is we've worked with electives. We've

[43:30] worked, um, with community leaders, and this is going to, to the public.

[43:36] Senator Missal.

[43:40] Well, my mind's kind of running all over the place on this. I think this

[43:45] is a great platform.

[43:48] We really have a big job of public education.

[43:52] A lot of people don't understand what we do.

[43:55] They don t understand how government works.

[43:58] And they are quick to run to their corners and just shout.

[44:04] So I think this is a great opportunity.

[44:07] The challenge is going to be how to expand this from 100 people to 8 million.

[44:13] That's where we really, that's our goal in the end is $8 million.

[44:21] So, rep Donahue.

[44:25] Thank you.

[44:28] Oh, sorry.

[44:31] I had similar concerns to Representative Dent on how we get people to trust us to be willing

[44:42] I do like the fact that there is compensation for participation.

[44:48] I'm wondering if it's done in a way that helps mitigate some of the challenges

[44:56] for people to participate or if its...

[45:01] So what I'm thinking is if you've got children and you need child care is is whatever is offered to participate?

[45:08] sufficient to be able to actually have that childcare or does it only actually

[45:17] Benefit those who already don't have those barriers in place, so I am a little curious about

[45:24] How

[45:25] how we'd handle equity within there to make sure that everybody has a voice and also just,

[45:30] you know, sometimes the people that we need to hear from the most are the ones who trust us the

[45:34] least and back to um, reference point, getting them to trust is to actually be willing to participate

[45:41] seems like it could be difficult and so I'm just curious how that would happen. Overall, I think

[45:45] it's a great idea to get as many people in a room as possible who are willing have a conversation

[45:52] I know somebody who was involved in the project in Snohomish County and she will not stop talking about it.

[45:58] Like, it was really a positive experience for her to be able to

[46:04] be in a room full of other people who were just people.

[46:11] It made her feel like she was more of the process, part of

[46:14] the progress and had a voice and I think that did that for a lot of people

[46:20] And, and so many have lost that lately. So, overall, I think it's a good idea. I

[46:24] think there's some probably little bits that I'd be concerned about. But, um, yeah, no,

[46:31] yeah. Cool. And I would say, like, we would,

[46:36] we will work those into a proposal, the equity issues,

[46:39] the sort of how do you get people to trust.

[46:40] And so we're looking for the blessing to like write that up and present it to you.

[46:49] It reminds me of my new favorite adage.

[46:51] I had the great privilege last week to hang around on multiple occasions, retired Secretary

[46:58] of Defense and four-star General Jim Mattis from Tri-Cities, who quoted a Mid-Eastern

[47:06] proverb, trust walks into the room, but gallops out by which it's slow to build.

[47:17] Final word on the overall rep Simmons.

[47:21] Hi, thank you for having me and I'm excited to join this.

[47:28] I, you know, just got back. Actually, I went to Philadelphia with one of my Republican colleagues and we were in a three day intensive policy discussion.

[47:41] on very controversial issues and trying to find common ground and one of the things that came up

[47:47] is that, you know, politics were like politicians and there's so many external pressures

[47:54] on us and the role of, y'know, campaigns and things like that really impact what we're trying

[48:01] to do here. And at that convening though, there was no video recording,

[48:10] a place where we could actually build trust and be honest and talk to each other. And, you know,

[48:17] even here today, like TBW is here, so sometimes it limits our ability to really talk about the

[48:24] issues and the role of external pressures in finding common ground when,

[48:31] you other people are watching, for example. So I hope that there's safe places for people to engage.

[48:38] and talk about, you know, the world that we want and how we find common ground without

[48:45] in light of the external pressures that

[48:47] we face as elected officials as well. I think that's really important and I hope we can

[48:52] have those conversations in an honest way without,

[48:57] you Know, other people watching, so.

[49:00] Yeah, that'll be part of the design and that's one of things we would do a little bit differently than Snohomish County and we

[49:05] would not invite the media and at the outset that there might be opportunities later once the group has gelled. But yeah,

[49:10] that definitely consideration.

[49:12] Thank you.

[49:13] Rep. Simmons, you and I will take offline our slightly different perspectives on the

[49:17] constructive role that TVW has played in the life of the legislature.

[49:22] No, no, I love TV W, the tenant, Governor Heck,

[49:26] I do and you're like a founder and

[49:28] I loved it and yeah, watch TV w all the time.

[49:32] It's the only channel I want.

[49:34] Okay, okay, just kidding.

[49:37] Here's what I hear.

[49:40] That is a general concept. This group is supportive of pursuing this idea.

[49:45] My question to you, Dr. Carbone is what would be the next steps. I also think in here.

[49:52] That engaging this group in developing the question or the remit, as you call it, term of art.

[50:00] Would be something that they would like to do. We don't have time to.

[50:06] But what would you suggest for next steps going forward?

[50:11] So we will write up a proposal,

[50:14] including how we might come to remit.

[50:16] And we'll do that in partnership with our colleagues at Feed A North America.

[50:20] We'll come back to this group for the next step,

[50:23] including potentially a workshop on building that remitt to make sure it's reflective of the group.

[50:28] But next up is we're be in touch with the proposal as to how this will work and what's next.

[50:35] Thank you very much, Dr. Cardboardin, very,

[50:39] very munch.

[50:40] So we have one final item of business to come before us

[50:45] that I wanted to bring before you,

[50:46] which is the idea of this group co-signing a letter

[50:54] to the Fort Caucus leadership and administrative leadership,

[50:59] basically,

[51:00] Advocating, affirming, supporting the idea that new member orientation at a minimum going forward should always include some effort at working across differences like we did two years ago when we brought in the Institute for civil discourse.

[51:27] It's my point of view, frankly, that in order for us to achieve this, in a political culture,

[51:33] which isn't particularly incentivizing that, which we seek,

[51:37] that it's something that we have to embed in the culture of this place.

[51:42] And one of the ways to do that is to regularly remind people,

[51:47] this should be a part of how we instruct new members as they arrive,

[51:56] and uphold the institution.

[52:00] I would propose, if you all are in favor of that, that I

[52:03] would write a draft letter and circulate it to you,

[52:07] but it would be of a general nature.

[52:09] I don't think that we should be micromanaging

[52:13] the exact approach that either the chambers take

[52:16] and they do take different approaches,

[52:18] but that the general concept be one that is supportive.

[52:22] Senator Ricelli?

[52:24] Yeah, I'm very supportive. I just wanted to add I do also think there's a gap to think when we're talking about the two

[52:31] There's no number of appointees that come in that I that we see just in general orientation get lost

[52:36] So I'd just I like to put that in the back of our minds about how we

[52:40] Try to is that they get rolled forward maybe to this next one because they didn't have that opportunity

[52:45] So, just, i just flag that um as a good. Thank you. We can yeah

[52:53] Rob Ty? Yes, I just wanted to share just in case this information has not been shared with you,

[53:04] at least in the House. As you know, Lieutenant Governor, in The House, we do, especially,

[53:12] House as a whole, but in the House Democratic Caucus, we do have very specific and well-runed.

[53:20] In fact, our team just present at NCSL to share at the national space of how we welcome and

[53:36] here after the election, of course, and as you might know, the House in the last three

[53:45] years has formed what we call an ESJ team, equity and social justice team working to ensure

[53:59] thought through of how to answer the very question, supporting

[54:04] legislators so that they become successful at what they do

[54:08] representing their people. So that is in the process that we

[54:13] are currently working to to write it out, share with our

[54:19] caucus members.

[54:21] So I want you to have that in the sense of the work

[54:24] in The House Democratic Caucus.

[54:26] And I am not in opposing potentially have

[54:31] that letter, but I would say maybe more conversation

[54:36] with the team that's working on that proposal going forward.

[54:43] Thank you.

[54:44] Rep Donahy.

[54:50] Thank you. I just wanted to know for what Senator

[54:53] Rachelet was speaking about rolling into them for a point to use rolling

[54:58] into the next class. That's kind of what we're doing now. You'll get an

[55:01] abbreviated an abbreviate orientation if you come in in between in

[55:08] between year and then the majority of that stuff does happen with the

[55:14] next last coming in. So that is how it's set up right now or at least

[55:19] that because that's what happened when I came in and that is what I keep saying going on. So I think

[55:25] in that respect, we would be good at making sure that everybody was still lived into it.

[55:33] Thank you.

[55:35] But thank you, uh, so I think it's a great idea to do that

[55:39] You know the biggest concern that I see with all of us

[55:43] Or with how the how to bodies function is we have new people come in and they've never been here

[55:49] And so they'd been off the campaign trail and on campaign Trail is different than being a legislator

[55:53] Okay, and so, they think that's what a legislature is is to throw rocks all the time

[55:57] So I thank doing something like this, but you know and also how do we how we pair people up?

[56:04] with a mentor. I was just thinking, what if you had a

[56:08] mentor from across the Ohio when you first came in to spend the

[56:11] first week with to talk about how this place works. And I

[56:16] remember my first few weeks in the legislature, everybody in

[56:22] the body reached out and said, if he needed anything.

[56:25] We're here to help you. Uh, I don't see that so much now with some of the newer members that may be something like it. I just think it's an excellent idea to encourage communication and collaboration between the all the members.

[56:38] I like thank you for the comments.

[56:44] Does anybody have any strong reservations about this?

[56:54] I'm going to ask for a show of hands of those of you who would support me drafting a letter and circulating it to you along the lines that I have attempted to describe.

[57:04] If you think that's a good idea, would you raise your hand please.

[57:09] Okay, thank you very very much.

[57:13] That was all that was on our formal agenda. I want to open it up.

[57:17] You're looking to be doing this something.

[57:23] I want to open it up in case anybody has any questions or comments about anything

[57:29] in general. We're at the bewitching hour but then again we started a couple of minutes late.

[57:38] I just wanted to ask if rep dent would be my mentor.

[57:45] You could do better.

[57:50] Hey, I got, but I gotta tell a little story about that. When I was first there on a senator,

[57:54] Shelley came to me and he had this bill around this, the medical school in Spokane around WSU.

[58:00] And he says,

[58:01] This is a good deal and I was young and everybody told me, no,

[58:04] no. You don't sign bills.

[58:05] Say you really know what's going on in space.

[58:07] You have somebody on the other cross the aisle and he said, listen,

[58:10] he says, this is good for your district.

[58:12] It's good frost sign here.

[58:14] And, you know, it was a

[58:15] good thing to do.

[58:15] He did lead me.

[58:16] He didn't lead

[58:17] me astray, but he took the time to explain to me that it

[58:21] was

[58:21] a

[58:21] good idea for me to sign on.

[58:23] And it

[58:23] was.

[58:25] Thank you.

[58:26] I

[58:26] was

[58:27] That was a fun one. I also remember when with the same exact bill, Norm Johnson,

[58:34] twisted a lot of arms on three bills he was working on before his signature got onto that

[58:39] WCU bill. So thank you for not putting me through that. Senator Harris, before we go,

[58:46] I just want to mention that same event I was at last week, which I met, General Mattis,

[58:57] who was obviously exceedingly competent in all that she did.

[59:02] And imagine my surprise when she told me that

[59:05] she was your daughter.

[59:07] Thanks after her mother.

[59:13] You're muted, Paul, but maybe that's a good thing.

[59:21] You have no, you have, no volume.

[59:23] I don't know what's going on there. Listen.

[59:25] Especially to the new members. Thank you.

[59:28] Thank. You. We welcome you with open arms and a strong embrace.

[59:32] We're delighted to have you we obviously will be back to you on.

[59:36] Uh, the citizens assembly thing and.

[59:40] At some point with a draft letter, which I think we need to send.

[59:43] Fairly soon because they're pretty neat, but.

[59:46] Developing their plans for it. They should already.

[59:53] You all have a great rest of the day. Thank you very much meeting adjourned

Joint Select Committee on Civic Health

Transcript