[0:00] We'll call, please, Amy.

[0:04] Mayor Reed, President, Vice Mayor Fleming, here. Council Member Elcedoon, here.

[0:10] Council Member Dent, here. Council Member Robinson, here. City Manager Banks, City Attorney Brown, Chief Tucker, Chief Tobias.

[0:19] If you have please stand for a moment of silence or a silent prayer, and remain standing for the country.

[0:24] to

[0:47] the Library of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation and another not in this world with liberty.

[1:10] Chief,

[1:15] before we get started, Chief Tobia, would you share your words, please?

[1:20] Yes, absolutely. Madam Mayor.

[1:22] Good evening, my name is Matthew Tobia. I am your city fire chief, thank you for being here in the evening.

[1:26] The most important thing for this evening is to ensure everyone's safety as we partake in city council meeting.

[1:33] We have an expectation that people remain seated throughout the course if you need to leave

[1:37] of course for the restroom that's fine.

[1:40] We do not allow people to stand along the walls or in the back.

[1:43] If you need to go outside, that's perfectly okay.

[1:47] And then if we have additional people arrive into this space, we may ask you to just move and

[1:52] make a new friend so that we can ensure that everybody who needs to have a seat can have one.

[1:57] In the event that the fire alarm were to sound, we will exit through the back doors in an orderly fashion.

[2:05] And just follow the directions of public safety officials who will give you guidance about what actions to take in the event that the fire alarm were.

[2:12] Thank you.

[2:13] Thank you.

[2:14] Thank you.

[2:17] Okay.

[2:18] We do have a presentation of the Virginia Department of Health Central Shenedor Health District.

[2:24] So, Mr. Xavier Crockett, please come forward.

[2:31] Hello, sir.

[2:33] Good evening. How's it right, John?

[2:34] Yeah. It's evening.

[2:37] It was evening.

[2:40] I would like to thank you guys for the opportunity to speak tonight.

[2:44] For those of you who have not had the chance to meet, my name is Xavier Crockett.

[2:49] I am the new District Health Director for Central Shining Dewey.

[2:53] And I kind of want to do two things and I don't want to introduce myself to you guys.

[2:56] would also want to talk about some of the services

[2:58] and the public health work that's taking place here

[3:01] in Harrisonburg.

[3:11] So I joined the Virginia Department of Health here in December.

[3:17] My first day was literally the day after Christmas.

[3:21] And so I had a call that day about a communicable disease

[3:24] that we were tracking and trying to contain here in the region.

[3:28] And so I've hit the road running, and I'm

[3:32] really excited to be here. A little bit about me. I have been in healthcare and public health for almost 15 years.

[3:41] I actually started my career here in Southern rural Virginia, and so I'm excited to be back after

[3:47] that those 12, 13 years have gone by, where I've grown up and learned all these other things.

[3:52] I can bring back to this community and share and do what's right here.

[3:56] My,

[3:59] the things that I like to really focus on is community health, and the way I tend to

[4:06] approach that is public health is really best when it's visible, it's trusted, and it's

[4:11] integrated into the community of everyone's daily lives, and part of that starts with me

[4:17] coming here and talking to you guys so that we can get a better understanding of what those

[4:22] needs are here in the Harrisonburg community.

[4:26] I have done public health operations.

[4:28] I've done health promotion.

[4:30] If you can think about a public health emergency,

[4:33] I've probably either participated or managed it in the last 15

[4:37] years.

[4:38] So I have a wealth of knowledge in that space as well.

[4:42] And for me, one of the things that I really

[4:44] am focusing on is making sure that the services here in Harrisonburg

[4:48] are reliable and accessible to the community.

[4:51] that the workforce is supported and equipped with the twos they need, I also want to focus on providing clear communication to this body as well as

[5:00] The community on things that are happening in terms of public health and a partnership, a real partnership that's built around the community needs.

[5:12] And so a little bit about our partnership, we are part of a district system here where we receive funding from 10 localities and part of that funding is that we work with you guys to identify what the local needs are.

[5:29] and so I'll be coming to you guys and talk into the City Manager and their team to ask more questions about

[5:34] what those local needs are and how can we better suit and help this community be as healthy as it can be.

[5:45] One of the things that we are starting in my seven months that I've just got here is we are actually

[5:50] going to be building a three-year strategic plan and so that plan will very much detail what

[5:56] We will be working on, I know, for the next three years.

[6:00] And that will include you guys and community members and community partners.

[6:04] We've already started meeting with several of the more prominent community partners here

[6:09] between HCHE, Centera, J.M.U., and getting their insight.

[6:14] And I've met with the city manager and aliens well about what their concerns are, as

[6:19] well.

[6:20] And I look forward to having those conversations with you guys.

[6:23] And one of the phrases that I do want to focus on on this slide is sheer accountability.

[6:29] My commitment to you is to make public health a trusted and visible partner here in Harrisonburg.

[6:36] I want to be transparent about the performance metrics that we're going to be putting in place for this strategic plan.

[6:42] And I want to make sure that we're having conversations early on and having conversations about emerging risk and challenges that we're seeing here in this community.

[6:50] to talk about how we can address those together.

[6:57] So here's Public Health at Work Everyday here in Harrisonburg.

[7:01] Public Health is often noticeable when we're dealing with emergency preparedness things, outbreaks,

[7:08] communicable diseases.

[7:09] But our teams on the day-to-day are investigating communicable diseases,

[7:14] we're providing services for STI's HIV tuberculosis,

[7:18] is delivering immunizations, doing travel medicine,

[7:22] new karma health, who are coming to our community.

[7:25] And I'm excited to say we had a huge back-to-school vaccination

[7:29] drive here in Harrisonburg and our clinical manager reported that

[7:33] here in Harrisonburg was the largest that we've had

[7:35] to turn out here in the last three years.

[7:37] So we are super excited about that.

[7:41] We also support mothers and their children through WIC.

[7:45] We also have maternal and child health programs.

[7:47] We conduct regularly food safety inspections here in the community.

[7:52] We also inspect wells, septic systems, our hotels, water, milk.

[7:59] We do a variety of environmental health programs here in Harrisonburg.

[8:04] And we also prepare the community partners for public health emergencies.

[8:07] And so we often are meeting with the hospitals and the universities and our local social

[8:13] services programs for when a situational rise is we know where our partners are and what

[8:19] their capabilities are and so that we can tap into those and make sure we take care of

[8:23] this community as quick as possible. And so those combinations matters, they may look

[8:30] singular but you know a resident may know us because they've received the vaccination. Apparently

[8:36] receive WIC support a restaurant was inspected or we help contain a disease at a nursing home.

[8:43] or at-a-school, together we are building what that system of prevention looks like here in Harrisonburg

[8:51] and in the region and we wanted to expand it and we want to make sure that we can keep essential services rolling.

[9:02] So here are four points that I really wanted to talk about this evening and so this is from our last

[9:08] school year, and these figures do not capture everything that we do, but they highlight some of

[9:15] the most important work that we have done over the last 12 months. And our clinic in Harrisonburg,

[9:20] we've received over 5,000 clinic visits dealing with immunizations. That is huge. Harrisonburg is

[9:26] our busiest health department, and so we're one and a sure that the team is equipped and supported

[9:31] with everything they're doing. And VDH is doing a huge influx and funding to bring our technology

[9:45] up to date. And so one of the things we're really excited about is we're going to be getting

[9:49] an electronic health record system here that will allow us to really coordinate with our community

[9:54] partners, like Centaire and HGHC and Shkintin peers, so they date.

[10:00] We can see what we see when we're dealing with our clients here in the community. One of the other big numbers that I want to talk about is a long-term care screenings of LTSS program. We did almost 800 screens here in Harrisonburg alone.

[10:14] That program is when individuals are looking to go into nursing homes here in Virginia. They have to go through a screening process and that screening is required.

[10:24] We're required to do that training for our public health, and so here in Harrisonburg, we did almost 800 of those trainings in the last 12 years, up to 12 months.

[10:34] Food safety instructions over 400 to those and then a biggie is 22 community outreach events that we either sponsored or that we partner with organizations in this community.

[10:46] And so I am hoping that when I come back to you guys and the next six months that we will have updated numbers where these numbers are showing even more work that we're doing here in this community.

[10:58] Now one of the things I want to talk to you guys about because this is something that we're

[11:03] focusing on right now and we'll continue to focus on is our response to our infant child,

[11:11] our maternal, infinite child health data that we have here.

[11:16] As you can tell,

[11:21] 55% of our births here in Harrisonburg were covered by Medicaid and that's

[11:26] a negative outcome or that number, what that tells us is that those

[11:31] verse, once they're at home, we're probably going to need additional services.

[11:36] Whether it's WICS, SNAP, whether it's housing, transportation, social services.

[11:40] And so that's an indicator for us that we want to make sure that we're ensuring that postpartum

[11:46] appointments and prenatal appointments are being handled.

[11:51] And so our team here in Harrisonburg has started to really do a lot of work

[11:55] with our partners on educating the community on what prenatal and post-partum services we have.

[12:03] Now, a number that I have that I am wanting and pushing our staff to really focus on is the

[12:09] 20.5%. And that is late to no prenatal care. That number there says that either mothers are

[12:17] seen a physician for the first time in the third trimester or for the first time when they're

[12:21] giving birth. And so that's one in five births here. And so we want to make sure that that is not the case.

[12:28] Because when we see them early, we can deal with health issues. We can provide nutritional support.

[12:34] We can make sure that they have the housing and the social services that Mr. Quarter make sure that that family and

[12:40] that kid have the leg up when they're born to start on our direct path. And so that's our maternal childhood

[12:47] in front initiatives will be very plentiful and you guys will hear quite a bit about that

[12:52] and I wanted to focus on that a little bit tonight because you guys will hear quite a bit

[12:57] here in the coming months about the things that we're going to be doing.

[13:01] And while those numbers are not especially the late to no prenatal care one, there are encouraging

[13:07] outcomes that we're seeing, our infant deaths while that's a tragedy are some of the

[13:12] lowest in the states.

[13:12] So we're good about the time.

[13:14] We're very happy with the conversations

[13:16] that we're having with Centaire and a work that they're doing.

[13:19] And then while we were seeing maternal smoking

[13:21] start to creep back up around the district.

[13:27] Harrison Burke has one of our lowest

[13:31] lowest percentage rates for maternal smoking here.

[13:38] So what are we doing?

[13:40] In the last seven, eight months, we have really stepped up

[13:43] to do what I've mentioned is which is educated community

[13:47] and make sure people understand that we are here to support.

[13:50] So we've 13 education citizens for car seat safety.

[13:54] And so what our car seat safety program is

[13:56] is where we give free car seats to mothers who need them.

[14:00] And so that also is a touch point for us

[14:02] where we can talk about nutritional support

[14:05] where we can talk about housing

[14:06] where we can talk about clinical needs for that family.

[14:09] And it opens the door for us to have those conversations.

[14:13] We've also done training with parents and caregivers and as you said, as you see 22 car seats

[14:20] are distributed at no cost.

[14:22] The other program that we've really highlighted in the push and is our safe sleep support.

[14:27] This is where we go into our mother's homes or they come to us and we talk about what the

[14:33] safe sleep looks like.

[14:36] We're they're sleeping with your kid or we're they're not sleeping with your infant.

[14:39] The idea is to educate you on the outcomes of all of those issues, and we've also been able to provide over 11

[14:47] cribs to mothers in the area as well.

[14:54] So the last thing you want to talk about is kind of the priority orders for the next fiscal year.

[15:00] So, one of my top priorities is to support our public health workforce. As you guys are aware, we have seen

[15:06] a significant amount of cuts and public health funding over the last year and so we have felt

[15:12] that as well. We have lost staff with our population health programs, with our community health

[15:17] workers and so we are working diligently to bounce back from that and ensuring that we invest in

[15:23] our people and the systems that keep our essential services reliable. The second thing is we just

[15:28] it through a statewide core services initiative with our new governor and our new commissioner

[15:36] where we want to talk about what are the core services of VTH and so we've identified those

[15:40] core services and the ideas to make sure that those core services no matter where you go in the

[15:45] set of Virginia if you go to a health department you can receive those core services and we're

[15:49] talking to immunizations, we're talking back to school, physicals, we're talking STD, STI testing

[15:54] treatment and those things as such. The third thing, as I've mentioned, we want to

[15:59] shift in access for families. So we're very much working on identifying funding

[16:04] opportunities in the state and out where we can bring that funding here so that

[16:09] we can improve connections to our work and our maternal and child health prevention

[16:13] program that our community departments. And then the last priority is, again, communicate

[16:19] early and clearly on what out the form it says, what we're doing, emerging risk, funding

[16:25] implications for programs that may affect our community.

[16:31] And so this is my, this has been

[16:33] my motto with my staff for the last seven months in every big meeting, is that we need to be

[16:37] a visible trust partner. And that means getting out in the community that means going out and

[16:43] speaking clearly about what we can do for this community and what we need to do for this community.

[16:47] So, I'm very hopeful about this strategic plan that we're building now, we just started the process,

[16:53] but I definitely will be coming to you guys and getting your input and talking to Andy and the rest of the team about how we can benefit this community best through you.

[17:04] Thank you.

[17:14] Okay.

[17:14] We can now go to our consent agenda in the items placed on the consent agenda.

[17:21] shall be removed and taken up as a separate matter.

[17:24] So requested by any member of Council,

[17:26] otherwise all items will be voted on with one motion.

[17:31] I'll move to approve the consent agenda.

[17:33] Is present?

[17:33] Second.

[17:35] Any discussion?

[17:37] We'll call please, Amy.

[17:44] All right.

[17:44] Vice Mayor Fleming.

[17:46] Councilmember Alcidun.

[17:48] Councilmember Dent.

[17:50] All right.

[17:50] Councilmember Robinson.

[17:51] All right.

[17:51] Mary.

[17:53] All right.

[17:53] We'll go into our public hearings.

[17:55] I don't six A, Tom, are you ready?

[18:19] Good evening, I'm Tom Ding, deputy director and community development, and I bring to you

[18:25] this evening the rezoning request for the Lindsay, which you all had reviewed back in April

[18:34] as well as an August of last year.

[18:39] So, just to, let me just kind of say here that this request had to go back to planning

[18:47] commission after the city council had tabled the request back in April.

[18:51] This was heard by planning commission in July last month.

[18:57] So the applicant is continuing to request a rezoning to be one to see which is the central

[19:02] business district conditional.

[19:05] And then if the request is approved, oops, that one.

[19:13] Sorry about that. Let's see.

[19:15] Let's go on here. Try another way.

[19:21] This request is approved. What the applicant has described is that they would construct a

[19:26] forestry building, multi-family building, with some small amount of retail use, which they

[19:31] offered to be between 2,500 to 5,000 square feet of non-residential space.

[19:37] The building would consist of a maximum of 180 units and then also have a 5-level parking

[19:44] garage that would consist of a minimum of 320 parking spaces.

[19:49] So I'll run through some of the renderings or elevations that they had provided within your

[19:53] packet.

[19:55] This previous image was from Paul Street and Main Street.

[20:00] Looking, you can see City Hall there, Campbell Street, looking at one side of the building in the parking garage, and then this here is an image from Liberty Street and the proposed Paul Street extended.

[20:15] One point out that in proper 1G, that proper continues to regulate architectural features of the building by requiring general conformance with these elevations.

[20:26] The proper also states in the last sentence there that the final color finishes materials and exact exterior specifications are subject to final construction document sight plan approval and material availability.

[20:38] So there's some flexibility with that particular proper.

[20:44] Now, with the concept plan here, they use the language of substantial conformance.

[20:50] So what we see here in this concept plan, we should expect that it's pretty much going to be what is seen here from the bird's eye or aerial view.

[21:01] Prophor 1A, that language has not changed, but I do want to call attention to a change in this concept plan compared to what they had submitted to you all for review previously.

[21:13] In the inset here, you could see that there's the image of the building in the parking deck that was presented to you all in April.

[21:23] And it's within this area that circled and read that has changed.

[21:28] Previously the parking deck was separated from the building, and as you can see in the

[21:32] current submittals of the image to the left there, it's more filled out with the building

[21:36] footprint.

[21:37] There would be more units on the interior, but more or less I would say that from what people

[21:43] would see viewing the building from the public streets is going to more or less look the same

[21:49] what has is presented in these two images is really in that interior. They call it the courtyard area

[21:56] that has been reduced in size to accommodate a larger building footprint in the interior there.

[22:07] The Prophors are still organized within these five sections. We have development standards,

[22:13] transportation improvements, parking and access, improvements and amenities and implementation.

[22:19] And I'm going to go through some of the amended Prophors in the next four slides.

[22:24] So within the packet, there's a larger version because it includes the 2025

[22:32] Prophors also, but this image here is just of April, 2026, and what is presented to you this evening.

[22:41] Here, showing total units in bedrooms, the number of one bedroom studio is four bedrooms and two and three bedrooms

[22:48] and what the profit changes are.

[22:51] So what you see here is that reduced maximum number of dwelling units has been reduced from 250 to 180.

[22:58] They've reduced the maximum number of bedrooms from 555 to 440.

[23:04] Reduce the number of studio or one bedroom multifamily units to 110 to 72.

[23:11] And they maintain the previously planned maximum number of bed room units.

[23:15] And then what we offered in here, just some percentages,

[23:19] a derived numbers for their give a picture of what these numbers mean in the context of the entire development.

[23:29] They've also made other proper amendments, which are summarized here on the screen.

[23:34] They've reduced the number of structured parking spaces from 480 to 320,

[23:39] reduced the number of electric vehicle charging stations from 14 to 10,

[23:44] reduce the minimum number of indoor covered bicycle storage spaces from 120 to 90. They maintain

[23:50] the exterior bicycle parking spaces at 16 and they've also reduced the cash contributions for

[23:57] traffic calming improvements, parking enforcement and enhancements and affordable housing.

[24:03] And what the applicant had described described was that each cash contribution reduction is generally

[24:10] proportionate to the number of units and bedrooms

[24:12] profit in the project. So, number of bedroom and units have been

[24:16] reduced and proportionately the cash

[24:19] profit amounts have also been reduced by the applicant.

[24:25] The

[24:25] building height has also been reduced by way of the

[24:29] the profit. Previously they did not address building height.

[24:34] It was just no it was explained that or rather I had explained to

[24:38] you all and it was described in the planning commission packet

[24:41] It's a planning commission into you all in the staff or packet that in B1, the zoning district, the buy rate ability is 75 feet.

[24:51] So anybody who zone B1 or has a property zone B1 can go up to 75 feet.

[24:56] With the applicant has done with this revised application.

[25:00] They've stated that they will not exceed 52 feet. They did also within that proffer, though, allow for rooftop structures, you know, the cannibal equipment and things like that, to be up to 55 feet if it's screened.

[25:15] One thing to note is that the way the zoning ordinance describes how you measure building height. It would be measured from the front of the building from a curb or a parking lot.

[25:27] the street curb or a parking lot curbing and the front of this building if this project were

[25:32] to get approved and constructed the front would be along Paul Street. So that would be where

[25:38] we would measure the maximum 52 feet in height from. And this image here on the screen is meant to point

[25:46] out that based on existing contour ground elevation information, there's about a 10-foot difference

[25:54] in elevation between the front, in the back of the building, or the front, and then back to where the gravel city parking lot exists.

[26:04] How they grade the site, if they get to construction, could change that slightly, but the grade just acknowledging that the grade does drop from Paul Street going to the north part of the property.

[26:18] The

[26:22] applicant has also changed the minimum square footage of non-residential uses from

[26:29] 2,000 to 2,500 square feet and they retained the maximum 5,000 square feet.

[26:36] And that's the 5,000 square feet from a traffic impact analysis perspective.

[26:41] That's the most important number because that was the number that was studied with the traffic impact analysis.

[26:47] This, the applicant has removed occupancy restrictions that staff had described previously

[26:53] and staff reports that we had concerns that the occupancy restrictions previously

[27:00] proffered were overly restricted in that they could limit the choices that different people

[27:08] might have to be able to live into those units, people who are non-students or non-family

[27:15] situations might not be able to live there, but that was occupancy restrictions have been removed.

[27:23] The part again.

[27:24] Yes.

[27:25] Sorry, I didn't explain that well.

[27:27] So what I mean to say is that the way it was worded previously was that studio in one bedroom residential dwelling units.

[27:34] Maybe least to a family or no more than two related individuals.

[27:38] Then it went on to say that all other residential dwelling units may be least to a family or no more than one unrelated individual per bedroom.

[27:46] that would limit people's housing choices because it would limit the ability for, let me

[27:54] see, in a one-bedroom, I think of an example.

[28:04] Okay, so it could limit the ability, for

[28:07] example, let's say in a three-bedroom unit, where there was a couple who wanted to share

[28:15] a room and maybe like two other people that wanted to live there with them, they wouldn't

[28:18] able to do that. It wouldn't allow for different combinations of roommates or a family who might

[28:25] want to have somebody else live with them to share the cost.

[28:34] And then the parking agreement

[28:36] that was with the city, that parking agreement has been removed. Previously that parking

[28:43] that proper had reserved up to 65 parking spaces for municipal and public uses in the parking

[28:49] So that has been removed from the proffers.

[28:56] So, as I've discussed in previous presentations, staff,

[29:00] we generally encourage developers

[29:01] to provide a balanced mix of bedrooms per unit

[29:04] so that the buildings could serve a variety of needs

[29:07] or different types of households.

[29:09] We did encourage that with this particular application.

[29:14] We explained that, you know,

[29:18] we felt that there could be disadvantages

[29:20] to providing too many four-bedroom, four-bathroom units, but in this case that is the applicants

[29:25] intended design. So they've moved forward with this project. A reason for that concern is that

[29:31] it's really suited for college students, which the applicant has stated like that is also their

[29:36] intended audience. With that said, well, we wish there was more of a mix of housing

[29:45] a mixture of unit types within this development.

[29:50] We also recognize that there are also advantages

[29:52] to provide an student housing that is close to

[29:55] jamey campus, so within a walkable distance to campus.

[30:00] This next image that I have here, I have three stars, the blue one representing court square, the green one representing approximately where the Lindsey property is, and then the yellow star representing the limit of GMU that corner there at Martin Luther King Jr. way in South Main Street, and they're about a quarter mile distance from each other, which is a pretty walkable distance.

[30:26] So, staff, you know, in evaluating this, we believe that the number of trips to city streets

[30:32] could be reduced when housing is provided within a walkable proximity to Jamie and downtown.

[30:40] This is the comprehensive plan map showing the land use guide, the future land use guide

[30:47] designation in that hatched area.

[30:49] This is a mixed-use area designation, and staff feels that this project confirms with what

[30:56] designation is envisioned for this area.

[31:05] Additionally, the proposed development in our

[31:08] opinion would also support here, Suburg Downtown's 2040 plans, goal for growing downtown

[31:14] as a neighborhood. There are two action items within the Downtown plan, number 16 and 17 here,

[31:20] which are say that number 16 says encourage mixed use and residential development and key clusters

[31:26] of currently underutilized space.

[31:29] Number 17 says in the long term seek opportunities

[31:32] to add density and improve the urban design

[31:35] at key downtown sites.

[31:38] The downtown plan also describes

[31:40] that housing units in downtown are in high demand

[31:42] and there's very little vacancy.

[31:44] And so there is a need for more housing

[31:47] to support local businesses.

[31:51] So new information that's being presented this evening

[31:55] or at least I did not have this information

[31:57] and in prior presentations about the Lindsey is the release of the GMU campus strategic plan

[32:03] or the Madison Promise, as you're aware in April of 2026, the GMU Board of Visitors

[32:09] endorsed this strategic plan and the strategic plan states that GMU plans to grow overall enrollment

[32:16] and build more on campus housing to housing approximately 60% of students on campus by 2040.

[32:24] So, this table was included in the Planning Commission, or sorry, the City Council packet.

[32:31] Showing what the current enrollment is at JMU and the number of students residing on campus and students residing off campus.

[32:39] The future based on information that was in the strategic point-in and information that we were able to gather from media sources and other places that are in the footnotes of the staff report.

[32:50] What future enrollment on an off-campus numbers would be, and then the final column on the right there is the change between the difference between those numbers.

[33:04] If GMU follows through and was able to completely execute the proposed strategic plans by 2040, the total number of GMU students residing off-campus would decline to 4,673,

[33:18] which is that number in the bottom right corner.

[33:21] And given this anticipated decline in the off-campus student population, you know,

[33:26] staff did have this conversation or questions amongst ourselves about the need for continued

[33:31] growth in off-campus housing, or in off-campus student, or in housing over the long term.

[33:39] And I know that there were public comments or other discussions at planning commission

[33:45] that didn't come to you all about the lock at Peach Grove Avenue, where similar information

[33:51] was presented.

[33:54] So if GMU increases its supply of university managed housing, then demand for off-campus

[33:59] student housing, you know, as we know, we would expect that to change.

[34:04] However, in staff's opinion, we felt that the change will be felt differently in different

[34:10] locations would possibly felt more in a location such as the walk, which is further from campus.

[34:17] The walkover at Peach Grove Avenue versus a location here, close to downtown, walkable to both downtown and

[34:26] Jamie campus.

[34:29] We think that this particular location is better positioned to having students live here and could reduce that

[34:34] reliance on personal vehicles compared to students that might live further away.

[34:39] And

[34:41] we also recognize just generally that the geographic distribution of student-oriented housing

[34:48] is an important community policy question that extends beyond this rezoning request,

[34:54] and that all of us in the community will need to consider that in-house.

[35:00] We, you know, want to address that or how we want to handle that and prioritize that in the future.

[35:07] So we believe that discussion would be best to dress through some other focused initiative on that focus topic.

[35:15] But now back to this particular request here with the rezoning for the Winsy site.

[35:21] I have a peer on the screen, so staff, and we recommend approval of the rezoning request.

[35:27] And then you see in this other bullet here that planning commission in their July meeting they had

[35:34] to meet somebody made a motion to recommend approval the rezoning and it failed with the split

[35:38] about three to three when a commissioner was absent from the meeting.

[35:43] Thank you.

[35:44] Do we have any questions?

[35:47] The time.

[35:53] Do you have a question?

[35:54] I know.

[35:55] Okay.

[35:56] Thank you very much.

[35:59] Okay. Well, open this item up for public hearing. If anyone wishes to speak, please

[36:06] state your name and address you have five minutes before we get started.

[36:12] Before we

[36:13] get started. We have, we'll have you go first. So we can hear.

[36:24] Is the applicant going to speak?

[36:26] Yeah, we're going to have the applicant go first.

[36:29] And then we'll open it up for the rest of you.

[36:32] Now, please understand, we hear you.

[36:37] This is probably our second goal round third goal

[36:41] around four public hearing.

[36:44] So I'm trying to be very respectful,

[36:49] but if we keep hearing the same thing,

[36:51] we we didn't heard the same thing. So if you got something that you want to speak about the changes

[36:59] then that's what we need to hear. So we can be here all night or we can get through this.

[37:10] Come on up.

[37:25] Good evening Madam Mayor Todd Ray with Clark and Bradshaw on behalf of the applicant

[37:30] consistent with past public hearings on this matter, I would request from the chair, approximately 15 minutes for our presentation.

[37:36] Now we'll be the only speaker.

[37:38] No, we're not doing that.

[37:41] He can have his time.

[37:44] Thank you.

[37:45] Go ahead.

[37:46] Just give them a snider a second to have a load of the presentation.

[37:50] I should be going to just click through.

[37:52] There you go.

[37:53] Thank you.

[37:57] All right, good evening, Mayor Reed, Vice Mayor Fleming, and members of Council.

[38:02] I'm Todd Ray with the firm of Clark and Bradshaw, with offices at 92 North Liberty

[38:07] Street here in Harrisonburg.

[38:09] I've practiced zoning and land use law in Harrisonburg and rocking him county for 32 years

[38:15] out of the same downtown office.

[38:18] I have an unwavering commitment to the growth and vitality of this community.

[38:22] I'm proud to present this final version of the Lensie Project to you tonight for approval and it's traditionally redesigned form and lowered height fitting in well with downtown Harrisonburg.

[38:37] With me this evening is Seth Roderick, our local traffic and civil engineer with Monteverdi engineering.

[38:43] For efficiency, I will be making the applicant presentation with set available to answer questions

[38:50] on his areas of technical expertise.

[38:54] Planning staff has detailed how the Lensie application meets the comprehensive plan, downtown

[39:00] 2040 plan, and the related city goals of increasing density and downtown, activating redevelopment

[39:07] areas for higher economic use, and locating sorely needed customers within walking distance

[39:13] of downtown businesses. In addition to staff's consistent recommendation for approval,

[39:20] I found planning commission chairman and former mayor of laws, perspectives, and

[39:24] safeful when recommending approval of this project at multiple public hearings,

[39:30] providing well-reasoned land use rationale and city history under existing city land use documents.

[39:37] The zoning justification letter in your packet and posted for public review focuses on the revisions to the project since Council consideration in April.

[39:49] The applicant has been proactive and responsive over the past 12 months from the complete redesign of the project exterior appearance to align with downtown.

[40:00] The addition of the corner clock tower element, a unit mix providing much needed, one bedroom downtown apartments, street activating commercial space along South Main Street, cash proper commitments consistent with project generated impacts, and finally, the removal of two full stories and over 20 feet of height from the structure.

[40:25] going from 75 feet to 52 feet in direct response to community and council concerns.

[40:34] With the Lindsay's reduced profit height, the project is now below the midpoint between

[40:39] allowable R3 and B1 heights. Only 12 feet taller than by-right 40 foot R3 townhomes and

[40:48] a full floor lower than what project opponents presented in a mother architects rendering

[40:55] of a five-story building, shown at the April 2026 City Council public hearing, 52 feet

[41:02] as a good faith compromise.

[41:05] There are some in the community who will not support an urban scale apartment project

[41:10] on the Lindsay site, no matter the compromise on scale or design.

[41:17] Many have now pivoted to a large park alternative.

[41:21] But for many others, timber wolves engagement and commitment to making responsive changes

[41:26] at the project, based on a community engagement and feedback has been recognized.

[41:33] From the Lindsey family perspective, and Charlie's here this evening, having their name

[41:38] on the project is meaningful given their century-long ownership of the property.

[41:42] But the city and the Lindsey family have been discussing, redevelopment potential for this

[41:47] site for over a decade, and the family attends to see it developed.

[41:52] There's been some discussion mooted to have the city reach into its coffers, borrow and spend millions to turn the Lindsey site into a large public park and event venue.

[42:03] That's an expensive proposition, declined by the city in the past and not supported by the Lindsey family.

[42:12] In fact, there's a fantastic public park and concert venue planned for right next door and integrated with this project.

[42:20] The Buildar Park Leadership has worked tirelessly over a decade of planning and fundraising

[42:27] to make that park a reality with city support and endorsement.

[42:33] We would encourage those who desire a downtown park to contribute privately to the Buildar

[42:39] Park effort in ways not conditioned upon support or opposition to the Lindsay project.

[42:47] Even with the reduced height and unit count, the Lindsay project will generate ongoing income

[42:53] streams to the city approaching $500,000 per year.

[42:57] The type of economically impactful project is sorely needed to maintain city budgetary priorities.

[43:04] Removing the Lindsay income stream and replacing it with a part capital project and ongoing

[43:09] operational expenses was simply created additional challenges for the city budget.

[43:13] The most likely alternative use scenario, namely, R3 town homes on this site, is also much less

[43:23] fiscally beneficial to the city.

[43:26] Back to land use.

[43:42] There we go.

[43:44] This highlight by staff, the Lindsey project has been guided by the downtown 2040 plan.

[43:49] The downtown 2040 plan is the adopted city plan for downtown land use and redevelopment goals.

[43:55] And over arching all of the 2040 downtown plant is the pressing need to increase population

[44:01] within walkable distance of downtown businesses.

[44:05] Simply say to downtown needs more residents and more residential density is needed to support

[44:10] those businesses.

[44:11] The plant also recognized as pointed out by Ms. Dong that the city is running out of old buildings

[44:16] to remodel and the plant focused on areas where new and dense residential construction

[44:21] should be directed.

[44:30] South downtown, containing the Lindsey property as highlighted as one of those targeted areas

[44:35] right for reinvestment.

[44:37] To accommodate the goal of encouraging mixed use and residential developments in key clusters

[44:41] of underutilized space,

[44:49] zooming in closer to South downtown, the plan calls for integrating

[44:52] new housing close to City Hall to activate the area south of Turner, this side slide

[44:59] specifically.

[45:00] Members, urban scale, residential buildings, on the Lindsey site that could not be built under the current

[45:05] R3 zoning classification. The proposed Lindsey structure is very close in scope and scale to that

[45:15] shown in the slide, which represents adopted city planning policy. Any developer coming to the city in late

[45:24] 2024 reviewing this plan would have rationally assumed that the city was encouraging urban

[45:31] scale, residential density and south downtown, with the city even displaying the Lindsey

[45:36] site as a prime example of targeted redevelopment in a VA awards presentation made by city

[45:44] economic development staff.

[45:51] I've talked extensively at the last 15 years of development patterns,

[45:55] which have pushed all this all new growth into Rockingham County near the city limits.

[46:00] As heard in the recent Peach Grove Student Housing Project's public discussion,

[46:05] and as staff comments confirm placing students closer to downtown

[46:09] in realistic walk-by distance of campus,

[46:12] and away from auto-centric corridors is an express city planning goal

[46:17] that the Lindsay Project aligns with and supports.

[46:20] As the staff report states,

[46:22] The Lindsey site is among the most appropriate locations in the city for student oriented housing.

[46:29] The Lindsey sites also want the most valuable in the city.

[46:38] adjacent to the B1 district containing by far the most valuable assessed land in the city.

[46:45] The Lindsey property should be an economic engine for the city, not a vacant space frozen in time.

[46:55] As covered by staff, the concept plan shows a project that fits neatly on the site with

[47:01] natural separation and buffering on the east and west remain in liberty streets, which

[47:05] are wide, on the north from the city hall parking lot, and the south from the Baptist

[47:10] Church parking lot and the new Paul Street extension.

[47:14] The project provides significant upgrades to bike and pedestrian connectivity through the Liberty

[47:20] street, cycle track, and by installing wider sidewalks, and public space seating in south downtown.

[47:28] Finally, a large drop-off area is designed along the Paul Street extension to serve ride

[47:33] share, delivery, and related needs for the project, moving stops and trips off of main and

[47:40] liberty streets. The applicant's architectural team has retained the updated, traditional exterior

[47:46] experience with finished colors and elements such as brick and graystone materials, town

[47:51] home elements, balconies, signage, cornices, and varied foundation materials at pedestrian

[47:58] level and a signature clock tower. The building has been reduced to the 52 foot maximum

[48:04] finished roof height with some small leeway for clock tower and roof screening via architectural

[48:10] elements. The height of the building now aligns with the height of city hall and the ice house

[48:16] south project nearby. The natural curve of Main Street and the lower height of the northeast corner

[48:24] of this building north of the travel way into the parking deck provide additional visual clearance

[48:31] for city hall. Exterior design is a subjective process. It is not governed by city ordinances

[48:39] But as is evident from the traditional redesign and the lowering of building height, the

[48:45] Lindsey Project team has listened to community feedback and has invested significant

[48:50] time and resources in the evolution of the project's appearance and size to more

[48:56] contextually fit downtown.

[49:12] I won't go through these views in any detail, Ms. Dan covered them in her presentation.

[49:16] We've all seen them posted for a while.

[49:18] in the packets and online, but this is the view from the primary corner at Paul in Maine

[49:24] with the commercial area in clock tower with a pretty wide pedestrian patio in front of that

[49:30] commercial space in the corner and running along Main Street. This is the rear building

[49:37] a scene from City Hall. You can see the reduced height of the parking garage. The muralization

[49:44] proper remains in place for cooperative work with the city and city residents to land on the

[49:50] final design. But the back of that parking deck will be covered by artwork to at least 60% of

[49:57] surface area.

[50:01] Finally, this is the Liberty Street perspective, the new Paul Street extension we come in on your right.

[50:07] This is valuable to show the cycle track, which will be installed, at about the same schedule as this building's construction, should it be approved this evening?

[50:20] I briefly discussed the project impacts that were more thoroughly covered in previous presentations in public violence.

[50:26] First, Transportation Improvements, despite the reduced size and unit count, the Lindsey continues

[50:33] to fund the full installation cost of the Paul Street Public Street Extension and sidewalks

[50:40] to replace the currently substandard and unsafe rat and street turnaround and the Warren Street

[50:46] connection that runs through the City Hall parking lot.

[50:49] The project also provides city public works directed transportation calming funding for the

[50:56] Paul Street Court award.

[50:58] Parking.

[50:59] The project continues to be designed to meet its resident parking needs within and onslaid parking

[51:04] garage.

[51:06] Timberwolf plans to charge separately for parking as an incentive to walk and bike and use alternate

[51:11] transport options.

[51:13] There are bus stops on main and liberty very close to the site today.

[51:17] The parking garage will be built over what is today's surface parking.

[51:21] We're not taking up more land for more cars.

[51:24] We're building vertically and storing the cars in that same space much more efficiently.

[51:30] And providing EV charging stations in ratios consistent with those for city public projects.

[51:37] We talked to staff and used those guidelines for those numbers.

[51:41] The removal of two levels of the parking garage to reduce structure height

[51:46] While retaining equivalent resident parking ratios means the applicant will no longer be able to provide the 65 dedicated city parking spaces in the structure.

[51:56] We've heard a lot of comments.

[51:58] We don't want to squeeze and push people into public parking outside of our property so that move was necessary to maintain those ratios.

[52:06] The project does continue to coordinate and provide improved parking solutions and circulation

[52:12] for the Harrisonburg Baptist Church parking lot,

[52:16] continue to provide a parking impact cash offer for city utilization,

[52:22] and continue to offer full-time on-site management

[52:25] to address any overflow parking concerns in real time.

[52:31] Third, affordable housing.

[52:32] During the community engagement process and past public hearings affordable housing needs

[52:38] stressed by citizens, the Lindsey team took the initiative to develop an affordable housing

[52:43] cash proper, supported by legal and financial analysis by Virginia proper solutions.

[52:50] In the absence of an affordable dwelling unit ordinance or housing trust fund, timber will

[52:56] has provided that affordability cash properly that is legally supported under existing laws

[53:03] and ordinances. Community cohesion in economic impact. The Lindsey site is

[53:09] equidistant from the main J.M.U. campus in court square, downtown businesses rely heavily

[53:15] on support from the J.M.U. community, whether it be student and family shoppers, or workers

[53:21] in their stores and restaurants.

[53:26] When the students return to town after the summer break,

[53:28] Many of these businesses give a sigh of relief and market directly and heavily to student and university

[53:34] customers as demonstrated in the attached collage and phone is for last August 2025.

[53:41] This August 2026 was a little different.

[53:45] Downtown Harrisonburg has highly inconsistent foot traffic patterns and limited parking.

[53:51] Bringing almost 500 new residents of any type within walking distance of downtown businesses

[53:57] and creating a visual waypoint to draw people from campus to downtown is invaluable.

[54:07] The budget. The city has issued precious few new residential housing permits over the past 15 years,

[54:15] and has seen little population growth over the last five.

[54:22] Broad property assessment increases have slowed, demonstrably over the last two budget cycles,

[54:28] and real estate values have largely flattened out in the current calendar year.

[54:35] In this environment, encouraging new growth to sustain city revenues becomes more necessary.

[54:43] Impactful multi-family projects will continue to locate in our growing and desirable metro area.

[54:50] But recently, these have predominantly landed in Rockingham County, just outside the city limits.

[54:58] The city modified its...

[55:00] Resonning ordinance in 2010, which had the effect of discouraging and reducing residential construction.

[55:07] I provided city staff with the historical permitting data as tracked by the federal reserve.

[55:13] Back in 2010, the city had just experienced 15 years of solid residential growth, and had no real competition from the county.

[55:23] Today, the landscape is different.

[55:27] The county has multiple growing retail areas adjacent to the city,

[55:31] with several thousand new rooftops to support and attract commercial businesses.

[55:36] JMU is embarking on a multi-billion dollar master plan to draw more private investment

[55:42] dollars and commercial businesses onto its campus in a way from downtown.

[55:49] You don't have to agree with all aspects of the Lindsay project to recognize it's strategic importance in changing these economic and land use trends back toward investment in the city center.

[56:09] What's the most realistic alternative use to timber wolves well designed apartment project?

[56:15] 25 to 30 R3 town homes, up to 40 feeding height with three or four bedrooms per unit, surface

[56:24] parking, large setbacks, no commercial businesses, no proffers, no on-site management, no public

[56:35] streetscape improvements, or other cash impact trees.

[56:39] By right R3 townhomes also come with a 70% drop in assessment revenues to the city in one of its most potentially valuable economic locations.

[56:52] Townhomes are a viable project model for a developer but far from an economic engine for the city of Harrisonburg.

[57:02] We realize that the nature of compromise means that folks on all sides of this project, both

[57:08] pro and con, we had planning commissioners look because they wanted this seven-story building.

[57:13] I may not get their full desired outcomes, but we are comfortable, but the final profit

[57:18] plan represents timber will be best efforts in arriving at an economically viable and politically

[57:29] city and approving this project for the benefits it brings, to reward cooperative developer

[57:36] changes arrived that through community and staff engagement and to send a signal to those

[57:43] looking at investing in this area that the city is an attractive option and a receptive place

[57:50] for those investment dollars. The decision before you comes at the end of a very long process

[57:57] It's been contentious and challenging, but at the end of the day we've reached a constructive

[58:04] place with strikes of balance between the economic realities for the developer, meaningful

[58:11] community input, city fiscal needs, and a clear alternative development path should the

[58:19] rezoning be declined.

[58:21] If there are specific remaining concerns or questions Council would like addressed at the end

[58:27] public comment, we would appreciate the opportunity to respond. Thank you all for your time and

[58:34] patience, and we ask Council to vote in support of the Lindsay project tonight as consistent

[58:40] with staff recommendations over all city needs and existing land planning documents. Thank you.

[58:54] Yeah, we're going to go ahead and ask our questions to you now. Yes, ma'am.

[58:59] Yeah, I'm sorry, if we got your item 1G, yes, sorry.

[59:06] It says the final colors for the shoes materials

[59:09] and exact exterior specification shall be subject

[59:13] to final construction documents.

[59:15] Could you highlight?

[59:18] What I understand is that maybe after you guys

[59:22] you finish, maybe you'll change the color.

[59:24] That is not the intent.

[59:26] I think this developer has proven what you all

[59:29] for studies, what when you've asked for commitments, they've made that commitment. Now this

[59:33] general versus substantial language has been in these proffers through six public hearings now.

[59:40] I understand how someone could parse that language and come up with something, but I genuinely

[59:46] feel like there's some equity here and trust with Timber Wolf, they redesigned this building.

[59:52] This was the main part of that community engagement process last winter. They're going to build a building

[59:58] that looks like those prophets.

[1:00:00] Elements. That's not a weasel word to make a change and have it look somehow different. You know, developers

[1:00:06] having lived through COVID and now tariffs are a loop gun shy when it comes to like, oh, you should

[1:00:14] this style of brick and it's no longer available or that style, exact style of railing. So the

[1:00:19] flexibility is only meant to get around those sort of bottlenecks and challenges and it's no way

[1:00:24] to lessen the commitment to this project meeting up to what has been committed to the city.

[1:00:31] Thank you. I don't think about the heights. I understand there is like on South Maine

[1:00:37] is different from lover history. So if I look to theville Zoo from South Maine,

[1:00:43] should I see four stories and liberty? It would generally be four stories on liberty.

[1:00:52] Let me make this point.

[1:00:55] All right, City Halls, we basically say is three stories, right?

[1:01:00] Well, where the land falls off in the back

[1:01:02] and there's a basement entrance, there's a four story.

[1:01:04] The Ice House south is four stories,

[1:01:07] but to the left of the Ice House,

[1:01:09] there's a parking deck underneath,

[1:01:11] which makes it maybe five stories.

[1:01:14] The slope on this isn't that great, Ms. Dang.

[1:01:18] Detailed that, the Paul Street measurement

[1:01:20] is about halfway from the high point which is on South Maine and Liberty Street. So, yeah, there

[1:01:29] might be a little leeway where not doing step down roofs. It'll be a flat 52 feet. Now, if somebody

[1:01:34] wanted to really play games at this developer, they would put their entrance on South Main Street,

[1:01:40] designated at the high point in order to maximize that high allowance. This was done in good faith.

[1:01:46] And then that back corner is the driveway that goes through to the parking garage.

[1:01:50] And it also is the driveway that provides access to the new buildar park for Villian.

[1:01:57] So that will really be an entryway if it's a little bit taller based on topography.

[1:02:05] That's all it is.

[1:02:06] And since the stage will be right behind it, it'll all be screened with the landscaping from the park.

[1:02:12] And that's also where the electricity comes onto the site so they'll probably be

[1:02:15] mechanical rooms in that back corner on the street.

[1:02:19] One more thing, if you please go back to the slide where the Liberty

[1:02:23] streets.

[1:02:28] Yes.

[1:02:29] There we go.

[1:02:30] Do you see there's like a construction like a wall here?

[1:02:37] Is this part of the first floor of foundation over what do you see?

[1:02:43] It's actually an architectural foundation element.

[1:02:45] It also came out of our engagement process last December.

[1:02:49] You'll sort of see that's a more rough gray stone finish at your pedestrian level.

[1:02:55] If you look at some of the older buildings in here, somewhere where they had that limestone

[1:02:58] or bluestone foundation, it's sort of meant to mimic that.

[1:03:04] You'll see there's only four sets of windows, four floors along that section of the street.

[1:03:10] So it's Potto, a fair spot.

[1:03:12] Part of the first four or the foundation below the first four.

[1:03:18] So that's it.

[1:03:20] Yes, thank you.

[1:03:24] The one comment you made the signs on the street.

[1:03:28] If you want to show that one with the Blackboard signs from August 25.

[1:03:32] I think you said.

[1:03:33] Correct.

[1:03:35] You said August 2026 is different.

[1:03:38] What do you mean?

[1:03:38] No.

[1:03:39] I said it's not much different the signs are different.

[1:03:42] Oh, okay.

[1:03:42] On back to school week, when the students and our families are in town for movement,

[1:03:47] almost every downtown merchant, I shouldn't say that.

[1:03:50] A lot of downtown merchants put out, you know,

[1:03:52] these chalkboard signages, and they would attract people.

[1:03:55] They would attract women, parents, we can.

[1:03:57] They would attract them during homecoming.

[1:03:59] It's an important part of what makes downtown

[1:04:02] here some of our businesses viable.

[1:04:04] Well, what I was kind of wondering if maybe I was reading

[1:04:08] into this, that there have been a number of downtown businesses

[1:04:11] restaurants such as that have closed.

[1:04:13] So I'm hoping that, anyway, that I wondered if that's what you meant, but it wasn't, it's just that we haven't gotten to this week yet.

[1:04:21] The Lindsey will not solve the businesses of, you know, the problem of keeping downtown businesses open by itself.

[1:04:28] But it's certainly a part of the solution, and from the downtown 2040 plan, I think we'd all acknowledge that more people living closer to downtown,

[1:04:37] where they can walk to these businesses without trying to find parking spaces or fight

[1:04:41] traffic to get down here will benefit those businesses.

[1:04:45] Thanks.

[1:04:51] Let's go back to the bedrooms.

[1:04:56] I know we cut.

[1:05:00] For me, you cut the wrong bedrooms, you cut the ones on the studio's and didn't even touch the force. Correct.

[1:05:08] Why? By reducing the size of the building, still building a parking deck, those core student apartments were deemed necessary by a timber wolf taken two floors off the top to make it a buildable project.

[1:05:28] They didn't want to come with another yet another project in Harrisburg that gets approved and not built.

[1:05:35] Okay.

[1:05:37] All right, that's not a question.

[1:05:40] Thank you.

[1:05:41] Thank you, Madam Mayor.

[1:05:42] All right.

[1:05:43] Anyone want to speak?

[1:05:44] Please take your name and address your head five minutes.

[1:05:48] That's enough.

[1:05:49] We're sorry.

[1:05:50] My name is Isaac Whitmer and I live on Rocky M. Drive.

[1:05:54] You think after the sixth meeting, getting more comfortable with this?

[1:05:57] Climate change is a disaster, we are not prepared for it.

[1:06:00] It continues to get worse with no substantial changes in sight.

[1:06:04] One of the ways we protect ourselves from climate change is to build communities that don't

[1:06:08] depend on cars.

[1:06:09] This project is not perfect but is a step in the right direction.

[1:06:12] Our downtown needs to house as many people as we can fit and tall dense buildings, because

[1:06:17] the future of our world depends, demands us to final turn to forms of transportation.

[1:06:22] As we continue year after year to make the wrong decisions regarding climate change, we are

[1:06:27] going to see an influx of climate refugees, our town will continue to grow and we desperately

[1:06:32] need the homes for everyone that lives here.

[1:06:34] It's important to recognize that the alternatives to this project is not an open lot and

[1:06:39] a park is not going to happen.

[1:06:40] The alternative to town homes, as Todd has mentioned, that would be worse from all manner of metrics.

[1:06:47] More college parties, more trash, more cars, and less places for people to stay.

[1:06:53] I'm disappointed that the past version of this project was scrapped for a shorter building,

[1:06:58] that will house even few residents.

[1:07:00] We as a community need to learn some lessons about the public engagement process,

[1:07:04] because when the state could happen this,

[1:07:06] the cause of this project to be even less effective does not happen again.

[1:07:10] Regardless, we need this project at four stories,

[1:07:13] just as much as we needed the past version as six.

[1:07:16] Short of going back and voting for the version presented in April,

[1:07:19] I urge you to vote in favor of this project,

[1:07:21] So we can build our climate, our city, in a climate forward way.

[1:07:25] Thank you.

[1:07:27] Mary.

[1:07:29] Would you mind asking folks to please stop talking,

[1:07:33] because every time someone is trying to say something,

[1:07:37] and I think what everyone has to say is very important.

[1:07:39] I'm interested in this to me.

[1:07:41] I find it very irritating.

[1:07:43] And I often miss parts of sentences because people are laughing

[1:07:47] and they're talking and having full conversations.

[1:07:50] And I just think that we're all adults here.

[1:07:51] And we need to respect each other when they're talking.

[1:07:55] Absolutely.

[1:07:56] I love you.

[1:07:57] We heard her.

[1:07:58] My name is Stephen Cites, I live on Westmartistry.

[1:08:02] And for all this to go on, I don't think Harrisburg needs this building.

[1:08:07] I think if you want to revitalize the built-a-tool story, shopping mall, have a place to

[1:08:14] sell their beer in one way or whatever, and I really don't think I need a bicycle right

[1:08:20] go up literally, straight with all this work, neither.

[1:08:24] And I think if you want to spend my tax dollars, I think counter-club road needs to be

[1:08:29] redecorated, and I also think that the new 33 bridge and stuff you need to post signs

[1:08:36] because people out there, they don't know what lane to get in, I think you need to have a

[1:08:41] high sign up where people could see it when to come off the interstate, they know what lane

[1:08:46] be in because I was out that road today and it's a mess out there you know the new road looks

[1:08:52] great I've done I've heard a man tell me that somebody already tried to drive their vehicle

[1:08:58] on the walking part of that and he's just told me that today that he heard that you know how

[1:09:04] that goes and but I don't think I don't think that building needs to doors down how or the

[1:09:15] college all up and down. I mean, it's out of hand. I think. And also, I got a problem with

[1:09:23] him loud cars and loud muffers all the time today and night coming up by the house of

[1:09:28] pop and cracking and, you know, that's, that's a noise violation of my book. Thank you.

[1:09:35] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That's

[1:09:41] good evening. Sorry, I'm nervous. My name is Jennifer

[1:09:47] I live on Campbell Street, I am currently a stay-at-home mom, and I'm a registered nurse.

[1:09:53] And nurses are taught something infatically from the very beginning, if it isn't documented, it wasn't done.

[1:10:00] And I think that's a pretty good practice for the situation too, because if it matters, it needs to be put in writing.

[1:10:08] Because tonight you are not voting on a presentation and architects rendering or what you've been told the developer intends to do.

[1:10:15] For all we know the developer has assigned the contract to another developer, or plans on getting the rezoning approved and then flipping it to the next guy.

[1:10:24] You are voting on what is legally preferred, so in plain language, this is what a yes vote means.

[1:10:32] A yes vote means agreeing to a 52 foot tall building and 52 foot tall parking garage and an extension of tall street on the Liberty property.

[1:10:42] A yes vote means agreeing to 180 units and 440 bedrooms.

[1:10:49] 77% of those in the for-bed for-bath configuration, a configuration that city staff itself has

[1:10:56] acknowledged typically serves college students.

[1:10:58] A yes vote means agreeing to just 320 parking spaces for 440 bedrooms.

[1:11:04] A yes vote means agreeing to a modest 2,500 to 5,000 square foot commercial component,

[1:11:10] while calling the overall development mixed use.

[1:11:13] A yes vote means agreeing to a two-way extension of Paul Street, despite neighborhood concerns,

[1:11:19] and a different street connection envisioned in the downtown 2040 plan.

[1:11:24] A yes vote means accepting cash-profers for traffic calming, parking enforcement, and affordable housing.

[1:11:31] Money intended to mitigate impacts associated with this project.

[1:11:36] A yes vote means agreeing to a project whose attractive renderings are not legally guaranteed.

[1:11:43] Final colors, finishes, materials, and exterior specs remains subject to final construction

[1:11:49] plans, site plan, approval, and material availability, the charming clock.

[1:11:55] The cute sign, the brick, the graystone, and the garage mural are not guaranteed.

[1:12:02] If those are things that matter to you and your constituents, are they in writing?

[1:12:06] A yes vote means agreeing to an ambiguous property management proper that does not explicitly

[1:12:13] require a full-time onsite property manager.

[1:12:17] It requires a third party management company, a local representative who is, quote, available

[1:12:24] to respond, and, quote, onsite staffing that may include a property manager.

[1:12:32] Not shall include may include.

[1:12:35] There is no stated minimal staffing level, no required hours of coverage and no explicit

[1:12:40] requirement that a property manager be on site.

[1:12:43] Yet on-site management has been presented as part of the answer to overflow parking problems

[1:12:49] noise and other concerns.

[1:12:51] If a full-time on-site property manager is truly part of the deal, putting it in writing.

[1:12:57] Because the current carefully-worded profile reads as follows, quote, on-site staffing

[1:13:03] in Harrisonburg, Virginia.

[1:13:06] Notice that it doesn't say on-site staffing

[1:13:08] at the Lindsey slash link.

[1:13:10] So please vote on what is legally preferred

[1:13:12] not on what we are being told.

[1:13:15] I guess that means approving yet another student housing

[1:13:18] project is jammed you itself prepares

[1:13:20] to house thousands more students on campus

[1:13:22] from remote off campus complexes

[1:13:25] and they are welcome to come visit downtown.

[1:13:28] Jamies concentrating student density

[1:13:31] around walkable infrastructure specifically designed for students, dining, recreation,

[1:13:37] transit, medical care, student services and public safety, hopefully which will reduce some

[1:13:42] of the policing burden on our own HPD. Being a student-friendly city does not mean that every

[1:13:48] student housing proposal represents good land policy. And a yes vote means approving this project,

[1:13:55] knowing that here's the work already struggles to hold absentee and invest our owners accountable

[1:13:59] When properties become neglected or blighted, we know how student housing properties have

[1:14:05] aged in the city.

[1:14:07] James, you is planning intentionally for its population.

[1:14:11] Harrisonburg should plan intentionally for ours, a multi-cultural multi-ethnic multi-generational

[1:14:17] city for all, like the goals you listed in your city council 2045 vision statement.

[1:14:25] So, before you vote tonight, separate the renderings from the legally enforceable

[1:14:31] prophets, separate developer demand from community need, separate promised revenue from

[1:14:39] the land use decision, and separate the fear of what might be built from the merit of

[1:14:47] the rezoning actually before you, planning commission did not recommend this rezoning

[1:14:53] your time, either. Thank you, should say council. Thank you. Thank you.

[1:15:05] Hi, my name is Sherry Good, and I live on Campbell Street. I walked here tonight as I always walked to the farmers market every Saturday, and I just want to qualify by saying Mary Lindsay was my father's first cousin. I grew up with Mary Bill and Bucky Lindsay. I've known him all my life, and this is not the slink Lindsay is not what they would want.

[1:15:29] The drawings that we saw tonight for the alternatives were so unimaginative.

[1:15:34] And like, as if that's the only solution is to have all that individual parking, you could put up several, I'm a designer.

[1:15:44] That's the thing, you didn't use local.

[1:15:46] Timberable comes in from Colorado, of a drawing from someone from Syracuse, and with no transparency tries to show us what we want.

[1:15:54] We don't want that.

[1:15:55] I can think of so many more creative ways, yes housing, no to that giant slab.

[1:16:03] We can do so much better, the park's already in line, we can build our own park.

[1:16:09] As far as climate change, I live on Campbell Street, right on the corner is the Greek

[1:16:13] Brad House, it's time. Well knows, I've sender pictures of the trash, a lot, and call about

[1:16:22] the noise disturbances a lot. Those kids up there on the corner, I can tell you right

[1:16:29] now they're eight cars parked back there when school those in the session, scapegoat

[1:16:33] is class, those cars are over there at the parking lots, they do not walk. They don't walk

[1:16:39] they drive, they'll be empty. So just to put the little stars on the map to show how close it is,

[1:16:47] I would walk, but they don't, they drive. So I just think we can do so much better and I just don't

[1:16:52] think we need Timberwolf Colorado with a drawing from Syracuse. Go local, I could draw, I could

[1:16:59] draw you tonight a better plan. Thank you. Thank you.

[1:17:09] I'm Sarah, like D. I live on Paul Street and

[1:17:11] I'm against the rezoning.

[1:17:14] I wanted to first point out the misleading map

[1:17:17] about the walkability as the students

[1:17:20] are not actually walking to the hotel medicine,

[1:17:23] which is where that star is, of course.

[1:17:25] Students walking to the business or to East Campus,

[1:17:31] that's not going to happen.

[1:17:33] Anybody that works in student life or in parking services

[1:17:36] at JMU will tell you that students are driving

[1:17:39] to park on campus. I'm not against housing downtown. I'm against more student housing

[1:17:46] downtown, however, and as has already been stated, the 80% for bedroom, for bathroom,

[1:17:52] layout, is specifically designed for luxury student housing, young professionals and families.

[1:18:00] Do not want to live in a building with 80% student housing. Downtown certainly doesn't need an

[1:18:05] fusion of students right across the street from the fortiewicz building.

[1:18:10] Students who can afford the highest end of luxury student housing market are not going

[1:18:14] to be working in the downtown businesses or probably have any side job whatsoever.

[1:18:20] They will not be the ones paying for their apartments, for the parking, for the ride shares,

[1:18:26] or even for their food deliveries.

[1:18:28] I think they expanded Park idea is one great idea that's been brought before you, not only for downtown businesses, but also for tourism.

[1:18:39] Alternatively, if you want housing there, why not target audience or why not target an older audience, retirees, or young professionals who would be a better next than putting a largely student there,

[1:18:53] and would provide money to downtown businesses,

[1:18:56] not just Billy Jackson and Jack Brown's for 12 months of the year.

[1:19:01] There's surely other ways that we'll profit

[1:19:03] and enrich our community and our businesses,

[1:19:07] and not only profit the developer and their local representatives.

[1:19:11] Thank you.

[1:19:18] Hello, my name is Nicole.

[1:19:21] I guess my question is what does our downtown need

[1:19:25] and what does our community need?

[1:19:26] And this is a kind of niche thought that I've had,

[1:19:30] but as healthcare is changing and as the boomers are retiring,

[1:19:34] we are losing healthcare providers.

[1:19:38] And as Centair has understaffed in multiple departments.

[1:19:42] And they have difficulty hiring here in the valley.

[1:19:45] I think as I hit and jump,

[1:19:46] I'm not here originally from here and I've loved it.

[1:19:48] I don't ever want to leave.

[1:19:50] But they have difficulty getting these young professionals

[1:19:53] to move here and start a family and stay.

[1:19:55] So my question is, don't they go downtown? Are they going to see?

[1:20:00] Hundreds of college students, or are they going to see a place where they can go downtown for dinner with their family, with their friends, with their spouse.

[1:20:08] And so I encourage a decision that would grow our community in multiple ways, long-term, and what does.

[1:20:16] And I agree with you, Mayor Reed, it was the proportion of student housing in that building.

[1:20:23] What if this was geared towards our community and think of these young nurse practitioners, these young nurses, these young doctors?

[1:20:31] They would love to live there and can we push for that 5,000 square foot commercial use?

[1:20:36] That's going to draw more people in from other places into downtown.

[1:20:39] I have a friend who won't go downtown.

[1:20:42] I'm a state home mom, she doesn't want to drive in, she doesn't know where to park.

[1:20:45] I literally drive her downtown.

[1:20:47] I come in every week and take my daughter to the dance, I meet friends for coffee.

[1:20:51] I'm just thinking about what our community needs.

[1:20:53] We love our JMU students.

[1:20:55] They are a part of our community as well.

[1:20:57] But they come and go.

[1:20:58] I plan to be here for the rest of my life.

[1:21:01] And I'm not from here.

[1:21:02] And I want to grow our downtown to be a community.

[1:21:05] That's beautiful and vibrant and not just for the college students.

[1:21:10] And so maybe if there's a way that you have some leverage

[1:21:12] with legality of maybe pushing for more housing.

[1:21:16] But I do agree that if I was a young professional,

[1:21:18] I don't think I'd want to live in a building with 80% college students such as, so I'm not sure if there's a way to encourage that that would be better for the people who live here full time.

[1:21:28] Thank you.

[1:21:34] Hi. My name's Sunny.

[1:21:36] I am a former student of JMU, Current Towney.

[1:21:40] I wanted to discuss with you primarily the differences.

[1:21:44] I remember, you know, we've all kind of been at this for a long time, but there have been changes made to that plan that they provided.

[1:21:51] and I don't necessarily think that they are really getting at what we need as a community.

[1:21:59] Number one, a giant parking garage is not an indication of planning on reducing car use in the

[1:22:07] city. I also don't believe that as it's been discussed primarily student housing is going to

[1:22:20] I was one of them at one point, although I always cleaned up after myself, and I think it's very important that we all focus on what happens

[1:22:31] as this is being built and after. A lot of money is going to go into maintaining the rest of the public image of Harrison Berg as a construction

[1:22:42] starts and as it's been discussed we don't know exactly who will be doing that

[1:22:49] management we don't know exactly who will be taking care of our city in the

[1:22:55] meantime as everything turns into a huge mess while jam you is planning on

[1:23:01] building and actively building their own housing and I do not live right

[1:23:07] next to downtown I would love to live in downtown this is not a project for me

[1:23:12] I don't have the kind of money to live in, you know, $1,000 a month rent places.

[1:23:19] And frankly, I think that the $70,000 profit cash bonus for a quote unquote affordable housing is an insult to the town.

[1:23:33] I think it's absurd, $70,000 will do just about nothing going towards affordable housing in the long term.

[1:23:39] And I don't know, if that's what it comes down to, if the

[1:23:45] proffers or what we're thinking of, more can be done.

[1:23:58] Hi.

[1:23:58] I'm Valerie Salfaro.

[1:23:59] I live at 6-11, Austria.

[1:24:01] And the first thing I want to mention, because I know we're all here and I know it's late,

[1:24:05] is you all are getting paid to be here, you all are getting paid to be here, and none of

[1:24:09] these people are getting paid to be here.

[1:24:11] Right.

[1:24:11] And they're all here offering their valuable time, which I'll tell you something about

[1:24:15] this project.

[1:24:16] Right, that we are all interested in we care and a lot of the people in this audience care in ways that it doesn't seem like you're paying much attention to.

[1:24:26] I'm a political scientist and I look at this and think if there's so much community interest,

[1:24:31] why aren't you doing a public opinion poll? Why aren't you finding out what your constituents want?

[1:24:35] Why aren't you finding out where we want our housing priorities to be?

[1:24:38] And I understand the claim that this is supposed to help students, but as many people

[1:24:43] are pointed out, campus isn't just mainstream.

[1:24:46] Campus is all over the place. This isn't more drivable.

[1:24:50] This new proposal cuts down on parking spaces, cuts down on bike spaces.

[1:24:55] There are what 14 bike storage spaces for building this side.

[1:25:00] This isn't any attempt to deal with the environment.

[1:25:04] James, future enrollment and the thing I think that we're not talking about is a large part of that isn't going to be undergraduate either.

[1:25:11] James, you would like to go R1 and go R1 is usually 25 to 35 percent graduate students, so we're talking about adults.

[1:25:19] Those people might have children. Those people are not going to be interested in this building either.

[1:25:24] When I look at this project, we shouldn't even be wasting our time on this conversation.

[1:25:30] compared to the earlier speaker who is talking about health care in this community.

[1:25:34] We're wasting our time talking about how to generate profits for this developer for a piece of

[1:25:39] property that we all don't necessarily feel should be put to that particular news.

[1:25:45] So I'm going to suggest that you just say no today and the reason for that is because if you say no,

[1:25:51] you can revisit this plan. If you say yes, you cannot revisit this plan and we are all stuck.

[1:25:57] I think the proposal isn't driven by community need, if driven by maximizing profits for

[1:26:03] the developer, that subsidy for low income housing, if it were sincere, it would be

[1:26:08] section A vouchers for this building, and it's not.

[1:26:11] There isn't anything about this proposal that directly generates affordable housing.

[1:26:17] It's not even practical for students.

[1:26:20] Being your campus doesn't mean you're near your classes, you're near the grocery store,

[1:26:24] near your doctor or anywhere else that you have to drive to, it's just completely being ignored

[1:26:30] by the developer. And so what I encouraged is for you to actually try to find out what

[1:26:36] the public thinks before you make a decision and don't say it to this proposal today. Thank you.

[1:26:48] Good evening, Mary. Council. My name is Peter Denby. I have my family live on Monticello Avenue

[1:26:55] just off Franklin Street. My wife and I are both products of J.M.U. and Proud Alums.

[1:27:02] And I have a business at the intersection of North Liberty and West Market where we restored

[1:27:06] and saved the West's seed building and that business is home to over a hundred now, other

[1:27:12] small businesses that shop eat drink and enjoy downtown. I respect it at the same time, do not

[1:27:20] in your position, and I thank you very much for your service to this city.

[1:27:26] I am very proud to live in a city where we can have respectful discourse, and I believe

[1:27:31] that everyone here does have the best interest of this town in their hearts.

[1:27:36] I am here to support this project and support the lensi.

[1:27:39] I feel that the developers have listened and responded to the voiced concerns, and while

[1:27:45] to prefer the original version, they are presenting a shovel ready opportunity that supports

[1:27:51] the comprehensive plan and still supports the 2040 plan. This project brings badly needed

[1:27:58] density to our downtown, even in its current configuration. And density equals dollars and those

[1:28:06] dollars are spent at our downtown businesses. This businesses create the vibrancy and the magic

[1:28:12] that makes downtown Harrisonburg special,

[1:28:15] and you can't have one without the other.

[1:28:19] And for those that feel that the downtown businesses

[1:28:21] are doing well enough as is,

[1:28:23] I encourage you to ask those proprietors their perspective,

[1:28:26] and remember those that have closed,

[1:28:29] and none of them are going to tell you

[1:28:32] that they'd rather be less successful

[1:28:33] or stress a little less in the evenings

[1:28:35] as they're paying their bills and making payroll.

[1:28:39] Then city also equals tax dollars.

[1:28:42] Above and beyond the additional taxes generated

[1:28:44] by the spending of the future Lindsey residences, and far more tax dollars than any other

[1:28:50] use of that space can generate. I see this being reinvested in our town, in our city,

[1:28:57] with street scraping and programs that bolster the downtown's vibrancy. We've worked too

[1:29:02] hard to revitalize this downtown and get to where we are to turn our nose up at an opportunity

[1:29:08] like this. I encourage you to please vote for the small businesses that are the lifeblood

[1:29:14] of our downtown for more city revenue and for a healthy downtown that is moving gracefully into

[1:29:22] the future versus being dragged, kicking and screaming and clinging to the past. Thank you.

[1:29:36] May your vice mayor council, Elizabeth Swallow, I work at I live at 45 East Fairview and I have brought my, this is a sheep, I know it doesn't look like a sheep but pretend it's a sheep because we're dealing with a wolf and there's a fairy tale about that, right?

[1:30:00] And we learned tonight that the sheep's clothing came off, and we now have the wolf. We now have a J.M.U. dorm.

[1:30:14] We've listened to people speak eloquently about businesses. There are those of us also who are concerned about the gateway to Harrisonburg.

[1:30:30] They're not mutually exclusive. You can have both.

[1:30:33] You need downtown as a destination.

[1:30:38] What makes a destination?

[1:30:41] We know what it is.

[1:30:43] It's been done elsewhere.

[1:30:44] Charlottesville, Browetto, Winchester, Lexington.

[1:30:49] Oh, wait a minute.

[1:30:50] We don't need a road trip.

[1:30:52] You can go to Bridgewater.

[1:30:54] You can go to Elkton.

[1:30:55] You can go to Dayton.

[1:30:57] Yes, it's the businesses.

[1:30:58] but it's also what brings people down town.

[1:31:03] It would be a park because the park would be for everyone.

[1:31:10] How would it work?

[1:31:12] You would have, well, you would have granny

[1:31:17] and you would have my granddaughter, purple writing hood.

[1:31:22] And we always get together, at least once a month.

[1:31:24] She comes to my house, we walk downtown, we eat dinner, we have ice cream, she has a latte.

[1:31:33] And we go to the popcorn store to load up with popcorn because we're going to see the free movie at the downtown park.

[1:31:45] I use the park when I go to the library, I sit in the park and read my books.

[1:31:50] When I volunteer at the church, I use the park for contemplation and prayer.

[1:31:54] My elderly neighbor, I drive her downtown because she's blind and there's a special part

[1:32:02] of the park that is raised beds and they're scented. Purple, my purple riding hood

[1:32:11] grand quarter, she goes to the park because she's doing her student teaching. So her

[1:32:19] students come downtown to the Discovery Museum and they go to the park. There's a special

[1:32:24] part of the park for her students. They have autism. This is special autism park for kids.

[1:32:34] And we all love the dog park at the park. So there's something for everyone. My granddaughter

[1:32:43] has a little sister through the big brothers, big sisters. And she and her little go to the park

[1:32:51] And they browse downtown and they have something to eat.

[1:32:56] They kick around a soccer ball, they meet their friends.

[1:33:00] When I sing with singing grannies, we have our rehearsal in the park.

[1:33:05] Then we go downtown and have something to eat.

[1:33:07] We browse the stores.

[1:33:09] We use downtown.

[1:33:11] It's a destination.

[1:33:13] Not only for everyone who lives here, students included,

[1:33:16] but tourists, we know it works and it's viable for the businesses and it's

[1:33:24] viable for everyone and it preserves the gateway to Harrisonburg. If a business just

[1:33:34] focuses on JMU students, they're here in largest numbers seven months out of the

[1:33:46] are greatly reduced, which means of course that we're able to drive around town, but we know

[1:33:54] that the students are important. We know that football is important. There are exactly

[1:34:00] six home games.

[1:34:05] We can have both. We can have a park. We can have revenue. We can have a vibrant

[1:34:11] downtown. We don't have to be sheepish about our dreams, our fairy tales. They can come

[1:34:19] through. There are people who are willing to donate, give big bucks to buy the land,

[1:34:27] to do the park for everyone. It could be your legacy.

[1:34:37] We could all benefit forever. Think

[1:34:41] of New York without Central Park at one minute. Think of Washington without the mall.

[1:34:49] It's possible to do this.

[1:34:55] It doesn't have to be just a fairy tale. There it is.

[1:35:00] This is a better way.

[1:35:04] Go sheep.

[1:35:12] Good evening. My name is Martian McGrath and I'm here on behalf of my husband, John McGrath as well. I want to thank you for listening to us again and again. And I also want to commend the developer for trying to lower the impact of the building, but they miss the point.

[1:35:36] You know, we need more people like ourselves, my husband, and I would love going downtown.

[1:35:44] We have so many friends that went to retire, and this is something that's been said over and over again.

[1:35:50] We need housing for young professionals, and for retirees who are here 100% of the time, not for students.

[1:35:59] And I think the developer missed that message that we've been trying to get through.

[1:36:04] And we also agree with your comments that this is a big decision.

[1:36:15] And when you, if you approve this, you can't go whoops and 20 years from now has this deteriorating monolith that has not met the expectations of the citizens in this town, the city of Harrisburg.

[1:36:33] We also want to think that this building compromises the historical integrity as you walk in and our designation as a historical site because everybody's talking so much I'm not going to say anymore but we hope that you will vote against this project.

[1:36:55] We can, we do support urban, but you know, density, we need that, but this is not, this is

[1:37:05] me missing the mark of what we really need.

[1:37:08] I would appreciate your attention and your this tough decision.

[1:37:12] Thank you.

[1:37:19] Hello, my name is Lee Evans, and I live at 1150 Lincolnshire.

[1:37:23] Thank you all.

[1:37:24] It sounds like you've been through the mill with this one.

[1:37:27] I was unable to make the other one so I'm grateful that I get to stand here in support of this of the Lindsay.

[1:37:36] The reality is we need it. You all have the economic driver data.

[1:37:43] I am not going to stand here and make a appeal to a motion.

[1:37:47] The reality is you have the documents in front of you as to what this can actually do for us.

[1:37:51] We know how much it can impact in the benefit and in the long run.

[1:37:56] So I do recognize that JMU has put forth the promise, but just because promise is in the title,

[1:38:03] doesn't mean that you can actually accomplish bringing all those students back on to campus.

[1:38:07] So I also, I completely understand the desire for this to be as someone who moved here and struggled to find a place to live.

[1:38:16] I absolutely think we need the density and we need to keep building because it's going to be what builds it stacks and brings it further.

[1:38:23] And the students do spend money.

[1:38:25] They spend money here.

[1:38:27] They put money into the downtown.

[1:38:28] They put money into the east side.

[1:38:29] They put money where they're going.

[1:38:31] It doesn't matter if they're the ones who earned it.

[1:38:33] They're spending it here.

[1:38:34] No matter whose money it is.

[1:38:35] That's earned.

[1:38:37] So I highly encourage the support of this.

[1:38:40] And I appreciate all of the work that you've done in hearing of.

[1:38:43] Everyone's opinion.

[1:38:44] No matter which side.

[1:38:45] Thank you.

[1:38:50] Good evening.

[1:38:51] Good evening.

[1:38:51] My name is Ed Rodriguez.

[1:38:53] This is a businessmen in downtown, the Barber, by the Water Street Parking Deck, and I want

[1:39:01] to express my support for this project, because it proximity to where businesses are downtown,

[1:39:08] and how it will help promote vitality and economic opportunities for other businesses like ours.

[1:39:16] And the opportunity to take in those dollars and investing it in the community, and the

[1:39:23] housing we need housing here in downtown I know that many people have different opinions on this

[1:39:28] projects so I'll keep it short to the point that I support this project and I thank you all for

[1:39:34] the decisions you will make and everyone here we all love Harris and Burke we love the friendly

[1:39:40] city and so we want to see what's best and we have different opinions but thank you thank you so much

[1:39:45] do.

[1:39:52] Good evening, City Council. Again, my name is Sarah Baker McEvely. I'm a downtown resident.

[1:39:57] I'm the owner of BFC Bakes on Main Street.

[1:40:00] I am here again in support of the rezoning. This project has definitely changed since I first supported it. It is now more

[1:40:06] than focus than I understand why those changes would make some people hesitate even more than the original design. But it does not change the fundamental reason I support it.

[1:40:15] Downtown Harrisonburg needs people living downtown. Students already live here, work here, shop here and make a bit of an enormous part of our local economy and treating them like second-class citizens who don't

[1:40:23] quality housing is antithetical to the fabric of our town. As a business owner, I don't have

[1:40:28] to speculate about their economic impact. I have four years of numbers showing it. When students

[1:40:32] leave town, my girl sales dropped by 33%. A food business on average runs on a 15% margin at

[1:40:37] best. That's like Gordon Ramsay's numbers, not us small town numbers, 15%. It's really not hard to do

[1:40:44] the math on that. So if we're going to house students and Harrisonburg anyways, I would rather

[1:40:48] house them somewhere they can walk to restaurants, coffee shops, retail parks and jobs. And student

[1:40:52] housing and community housing aren't entirely separate issues. Students have to live somewhere,

[1:40:57] hundreds of students living in purpose-built housing means hundreds fewer competing for other

[1:41:00] housing throughout Arizona, including in the old town housing. I know Jamie, you has a long-term

[1:41:05] plan to house more students on campus. I welcome that, but we need housing now, which Jamie, you,

[1:41:11] may accomplish years from now, doesn't lower someone's rent today, doesn't create an apartment

[1:41:15] today, it doesn't increase our housing supply today, and we are already operating at a housing crisis.

[1:41:20] We're at a 2% vacancy rate right now and there have been no viable opinions given on how to solve that problem in the meantime.

[1:41:27] If JMU eventually houses more students on campus, great, but housing is still housing and supplies still supply.

[1:41:33] And there's other consequences to rejecting projects like this that concerns me, what it tells the next developer.

[1:41:39] Development requires an enormous financial risk. Developers acquire property design projects, conduct studies, work the city staff, revise plans, just as this developer is done.

[1:41:46] And this is a private development on private land sold by a private citizen for private use with public interference that has already made the project worse.

[1:41:55] And public interference is never great for business viability in the long term.

[1:41:59] And not every project deserves approval, but when a project advances the density and walkability we said that we want and goes through that process,

[1:42:06] response to the concerns and is still rejected other investors notice those things.

[1:42:10] A common sentiment is that they want this development put at the roses who are we going

[1:42:14] to attract to build at the roses if we're denying every single thing that comes across for

[1:42:18] development. There is no line of perfect projects waiting behind this one and the next

[1:42:23] developer may simply decide to have some very curious too much uncertainty and invest somewhere else.

[1:42:27] And this property can still be developed without this rezoning. So our choice isn't this

[1:42:30] development versus nothing or this development versus a park. It's a hideous and a housing

[1:42:34] version of this development versus what can realistically be built there

[1:42:38] otherwise. And I would much rather see high density housing on valuable land

[1:42:41] connecting Jamie and downtown than lower density town homes that I think

[1:42:45] will just turn into fat houses. We need housing now, we need investment now,

[1:42:49] and we spent years talking about the downtown we want to create and at some point

[1:42:52] we have to be willing to build it. So I hope you guys support the link.

[1:43:06] I forgot my glasses, so I'm pardoned that I have to read this really closely.

[1:43:11] Good evening, Mary, and city council members. My name is Candy Graham, and I live on

[1:43:15] I'm a proud Jane Mew, 28-year employee, and a three-time alum, but most importantly, I'm very proud

[1:43:22] Harris of her community member who have children here that deserve a wonderful future in

[1:43:26] our friendly city as well. So tonight I want to ask each of you a very simple question.

[1:43:32] What is your why? Why did you run for City Council? Why do you continue to serve?

[1:43:38] And when you cast a vote that could permanently change the character of this community and city,

[1:43:42] What is the why behind that vote?

[1:43:45] Because tonight, I'm asking you to vote no on the

[1:43:47] rezoning for the Lindsey property.

[1:43:50] And I want you to think about why saying no matters.

[1:43:52] Harrison Burke calls itself the friendly city,

[1:43:55] but what kind of city are we choosing to become?

[1:43:57] We already have an extraordinary

[1:43:58] concentration of student housing.

[1:44:00] We need to be asking whether continuing to build

[1:44:02] more large scale student housing is really the highest

[1:44:04] and best use of our limited land,

[1:44:07] particularly in one of the gateways to our city.

[1:44:09] Because once we change that gateway,

[1:44:11] we don't get it back.

[1:44:14] A massive building doesn't disappear when enrollment changes.

[1:44:17] Every zoning isn't temporary.

[1:44:19] And a decision may tonight will remain part of Harrisonburg long after every person currently sitting in these chairs.

[1:44:25] Both here and behind me has all moved on.

[1:44:29] That is why I want you to consider your legacy.

[1:44:33] Harrisonburg's own 2040 vision talks about housing affordability and creating housing opportunities for the people who live and work here.

[1:44:40] teachers, first responders, young families, service workers, older adults, people who want to put

[1:44:47] on roots and hear some Bergen stay. The link is not that housing. So I'm asking,

[1:44:52] why would we change our zoning to a comet project that does not address the one of the most

[1:44:55] significant housing challenges identified by our own community?

[1:45:00] Here, why the scale, why student housing, and why this would be what greets Harrisonburg as they enter, what greets people as they enter Harrisonburg.

[1:45:10] Development isn't an avidol, growth isn't necessary, but growth and good planning are not the same thing.

[1:45:16] This question before you isn't simply whether someone can build something on this property. The question is what should be built here, and what vision for Harrisonburg this council is willing to protect.

[1:45:26] So, before you vote, I hope each of you will go back to your own why.

[1:45:31] Why did you run?

[1:45:32] Why did you prop?

[1:45:33] Well, who did you promise yourself?

[1:45:35] You would serve?

[1:45:36] What kind of hair somebody did you hope to create?

[1:45:39] And 20 years from now, when people drive into Harrisonburg and see what you chose to put on this gateway,

[1:45:44] what do you want that decision to say about you?

[1:45:46] You have an opportunity tonight to protect the long-term vision of the city.

[1:45:50] Please vote no on this resounding for the Lindsay property.

[1:45:53] Not because Harrisonburg shouldn't grow,

[1:45:54] But because Harrisonburg deserves thoughtful growth, that serves the whole community, let that be your legacy.

[1:46:00] Thank you.

[1:46:08] Good evening.

[1:46:09] My name is Mani Fisher, I'm a local contractor and realtor.

[1:46:13] I love downtown and I do support the long-term investment this project brings into the city and our downtown area.

[1:46:20] I also think the project fits well into our city's 2040 plan. Thank you.

[1:46:28] Shall we cast one? I live in a sick 11-odd street. I'm spoken to you in the past.

[1:46:34] All I want to say once again is please vote no, I don't read. Do we? No, be once seen. Thank you.

[1:46:41] Thank you.

[1:46:44] Anyone else?

[1:46:51] Hello. And thank you. I'm Kathy Schwartz. I live it

[1:46:55] 4-5-7-odd street. I've spoken before and I sent each of you a letter. And when I came into

[1:47:02] I picked up this beautiful document, so thank you to your PR team who ever put this together

[1:47:09] as fabulous because it's more than PR, it really explains why we live in Harrisonburg.

[1:47:16] You can open it up here to Harrisonburg Department of Parks and Recreation.

[1:47:21] You can open here to find a Harrisonburg Park or facility near you.

[1:47:28] Well, I'm one of these people that decided to retire here because I love these parks, and I'm not actually here advocating that you build another big park.

[1:47:38] I'm very involved with the build our park group and I do support that, but I also know we do need housing.

[1:47:46] We really seriously need housing and I was so excited when the project was to be redesigned

[1:47:55] but also very disappointed as someone else mentioned that the housing that we need,

[1:48:00] the most, is not actually addressed in this new plan.

[1:48:06] So I would just say, go over to West Over Park for some fun on Memorial Day weekend and

[1:48:14] see the entire parking lot jammed with cars because that's why people live here go over

[1:48:21] to Perseal Park, go to any of our parks and see it's so exciting and I envision a downtown

[1:48:28] that all of our businesses can thrive because we can all get there. We can all enjoy a walking

[1:48:35] kind of community that welcomes the residents that actually live here right now. It's kind

[1:48:41] tricky, getting to the bakery or getting to the American tile building. We could do a better

[1:48:50] job. All of us to get to these beautiful, wonderful facilities and support them. So I would say

[1:48:58] I'm asking you to vote no for three reasons. One to be consistent with our own city planning.

[1:49:05] To be consistent with our overall planning documents, which are calling for the need for affordable housing.

[1:49:16] And finally, because of overwhelming the outcry from our community, the people that live here that are asking you to please reconsider and vote no or consider.

[1:49:29] Thank you.

[1:49:30] Hi,

[1:49:42] I'm Joe Whitehill and live on Franklin Street and I oppose this project and part

[1:49:55] because it is still sidewalk to sidewalk, massive increase.

[1:50:03] So, there is a loss of green space, notwithstanding the disembodied, trees, somehow float outside the windows and the renderings. So, I think it will contribute to a lot of the environmental problems and some water problems.

[1:50:29] Thank you.

[1:50:30] Thank you.

[1:50:39] Good evening.

[1:50:40] Sam Nichols, 340, Maryland Avenue.

[1:50:44] I know all the city council members fairly well to very well and I thank you for

[1:50:49] your service and I know that you all have hearts that are for this city and that you'll

[1:50:57] do what you think is right and best for our town and I appreciate that.

[1:51:06] Um, wanted to share just a couple thoughts, um, I asked somebody today, what do you think

[1:51:14] of when you think of student housing?

[1:51:16] And they said the same thing that I usually think of, what pops into my head, uh, is house

[1:51:23] parties and drunk students playing beer pong on the lawn and trash floating across yards

[1:51:30] and into the street and loud noise laid into the night.

[1:51:34] But I think that the students in this building will be somewhat more similar to 865 yeast,

[1:51:42] where there's a large building, and everybody has their own space, it's not a frat house.

[1:51:50] And I don't think these buildings end up being that kind of an image of student housing.

[1:51:57] I think it's different.

[1:51:59] I also think about that this is not an affordable housing project, but it was never stated

[1:52:08] that it would be affordable housing, and nobody has argued that it is affordable housing.

[1:52:16] But the city's own comprehensive housing survey showed that we need higher income housing

[1:52:23] almost as much as we need a very low-income housing in our city.

[1:52:30] For me, at Boyle's Down to Need, we are growing and we need more housing.

[1:52:35] We need housing of all kinds, and I think we need it everywhere.

[1:52:40] No neighborhood should be exempt from having new housing built in its backyard.

[1:52:47] We need the housing, we need the purchasing dollars for our downtown businesses.

[1:52:55] In the last remark, I'd like to say, as I hope that somehow in the future we can generate

[1:53:01] as much excitement and as much energy for our housing trust fund for low-income people

[1:53:08] in our community as we do around discussion of this topic.

[1:53:14] Thank you.

[1:53:26] Hi, Jeremy Littwell, I'm a city resident and also a local real estate broker here in the area.

[1:53:33] You know, I hear a lot of talk this evening and all good ideas about affordable housing and the need for that and everything.

[1:53:38] We talked about that a lot. I live it on a day-to-day basis with my clients that I deal with, with the business owners I deal with.

[1:53:46] And I think, you know, it would be amazing if we had developers out there who existed who would come in and build projects with no need or requirement to make a profit.

[1:53:56] And they could just do it out of the goodness of their hearts because we need it.

[1:54:00] Be great.

[1:54:01] Unfortunately, I haven't met him yet.

[1:54:05] We've had committees after committee at our local Realtor Association Board.

[1:54:09] I used to be president of the Board.

[1:54:11] Talking about how we can help pull that lever for affordable housing.

[1:54:15] Nothing's ever happened.

[1:54:17] Nothing has changed.

[1:54:18] What we need is more housing.

[1:54:20] Supplying demand is real.

[1:54:21] While adding supply doesn't always reduce demand or lower prices, it's a significant lever in the process of doing that.

[1:54:30] And so I think anything that adds housing units to our city is necessary.

[1:54:35] I personally also own rental property in town.

[1:54:38] Every time you guys raise my taxes, I'm raised in my rents.

[1:54:42] So you're affecting affordable housing simply by not adding this tax base that this developer would bring or this project would bring.

[1:54:49] it trickles down. Whether we like it or not, it's really okay. So that that significant increase

[1:54:57] in revenue to the tax base.

[1:55:00] I think it's hugely important given where our taxes have gone in the city of Harrisonburg. I deal with people every day that say, Jeremy, help me get out of the city. Taxes are killing me. Business taxes, vehicle taxes, property taxes. I wanted to move out of the city of the county. We're losing that as Mr. Ray had said to the county at our borders. We need to revitalize, we're losing businesses downtown restaurants, all of those things. We need more building, more units to be built downtown.

[1:55:27] My opinion based on what this developer has done,

[1:55:30] it's listening to public comments, great comments, by the way.

[1:55:34] I think they've done a great job in addressing a lot of those.

[1:55:36] I think planning commission recommended it once.

[1:55:39] Staff has recommended it.

[1:55:41] I don't understand what happened in our last planning commission after they did.

[1:55:44] What everybody asked them to do and then they came back.

[1:55:46] It doesn't make sense to me.

[1:55:49] So I think they've been very accommodating in attempt to make it work.

[1:55:52] I actually like the look of the building.

[1:55:54] I think it looks right with a clock tower coming into town like that.

[1:55:59] The overriding those things in the end, for me, is if we don't approve this, by right,

[1:56:05] we're going to get 25 to 30 townhills, street level parking, individual ownership.

[1:56:11] I'd love to have a park, right?

[1:56:12] Who's going to come in and build the park for free?

[1:56:14] You can try to fund the build your park current plan.

[1:56:18] That's not fully funded.

[1:56:19] So, I've yet to hear anybody offer a solution over just ideas, would it be great to have

[1:56:27] low-income housing or housing for an older population, certainly.

[1:56:32] The numbers don't work.

[1:56:33] The density that's required to make the numbers work, require them to have four bedroom

[1:56:39] units at this level.

[1:56:41] That's simple economics.

[1:56:42] So I think if for no other reason, then to not have a bunch of townhouses built there, this makes a lot of sense and we need it.

[1:56:53] So again, lots of great ideas, lots of great alternative solutions, but no real plan or way to actually pull that off, just because it's not financially feasible.

[1:57:05] Those developers don't exist who don't need to make a profit.

[1:57:08] None of us go to work, so I'll solve with us in no-profits, do you mean?

[1:57:12] None of us go to work and expect not to get paid, right?

[1:57:15] These developers need to make revenue.

[1:57:17] They pay taxes too.

[1:57:19] So with all of that said, I offer my support for this project and ask that you approve it.

[1:57:26] Thank you.

[1:57:32] Hi, I'm Lee and McMurray from 450 Othstrich.

[1:57:36] And I just want to insert a comment to that.

[1:57:40] If a developer comes in and does town homes, he is most certainly going to have some sort

[1:57:47] of an HOA associated with that development, because that's his recurring revenue going

[1:57:54] forward.

[1:57:55] So when we say something along the lines of where we're just going to have these town homes

[1:58:01] that are ground level, with ground level parking, at least there'll be somebody there to

[1:58:09] maintain a certain level of, let's see, what's the word I'm looking for, not allowing

[1:58:18] the students to come in, and if a development has what they're saying about a maintenance

[1:58:28] group to take care of that property, are they going to be there on Sunday morning to

[1:58:34] clean up bags and bags of garbage. And at this point, because it's the first month or the

[1:58:41] first weekend that the kids are back, all you have to do is drive up almost any street between

[1:58:47] Mason and Ostritt. And you'll see what that looks like after the parties. So I'm going back to,

[1:58:55] at least the town homes will be supervised by people who are going to say, okay, if you do this

[1:59:03] not and it's not right, you'll be fine for it.

[1:59:07] That's it.

[1:59:07] Thank you.

[1:59:10] Anyone else?

[1:59:27] Any members of City Council, my name is Carl Orson,

[1:59:30] I live on South Mason Street, and I've

[1:59:31] lived in Harrisonburg for 10 years.

[1:59:35] I absolutely love our city, and I share in the desire

[1:59:37] of many in this room to have greater density

[1:59:39] and more neighbors living in and around downtown.

[1:59:43] And yet, I'm here to respectfully ask you to vote no tonight

[1:59:45] on the rezoning at 473 South Main Street

[1:59:48] is a first half toward a better U.S. tomorrow. I want to be very clear, voting no is not a

[1:59:54] vote against housing or against downtown growth. A no vote tonight is about opening

[1:59:58] the door to better ya

[2:00:02] First, I'd like to point out that this rezoning proposal contradicts the downtown 2040 plan in several obvious and important ways.

[2:00:10] The downtown 2040 plan was adopted by city council and it represents our community's shared vision for downtown development.

[2:00:17] While this development proposal may deliver a development and density, density alone is not enough.

[2:00:23] This image from page 60 of the downtown 2040 plan clearly depicts a B-1 style building at three

[2:00:30] stories with both historic buildings on the property preserved.

[2:00:35] The applicant's proposal contradicts the downtown 2040 plan by demolishing historic buildings

[2:00:40] and introducing four to five story structures in NASA in an area next to two to three story buildings.

[2:00:45] That scale in massing violate the planning principles of transition zones and the needs to match existing neighborhood character.

[2:00:54] Some additional contradictions with downtown 2040 planning include the following.

[2:00:58] On page 60 of downtown 2040 plan it calls for green building solutions.

[2:01:03] It's my understanding that the comparable sized urban exchange apartments downtown are a lead certified,

[2:01:09] but I don't see any similar environmental certifications being offered on this proposal.

[2:01:13] This proposal also risks the negative environmental impacts of removing mature trees and green space next to the Blacks Grand Watershed.

[2:01:22] Page 44 of downtown 20, 40 calls for, quote, the highest standards of design at this downtown gateway.

[2:01:32] However, the developers' profits do not guarantee final building design and materials, as we've heard numerous times this evening.

[2:01:38] The final design of materials are generally

[2:01:40] profored and not substantially profored.

[2:01:44] That choice of words using generally

[2:01:45] instead of substantially makes a big difference.

[2:01:47] And it puts our city out risk of getting an inferior building

[2:01:50] if this rezoning is approved.

[2:01:53] I'm reassured that this evening Mr. Ray said

[2:01:55] it's not the intent of the developer

[2:01:57] to change up the design after approval.

[2:02:01] If so, it would be a very simple change

[2:02:03] to use the words substantial instead of general conformance

[2:02:07] to better align with the intent of this developer.

[2:02:12] If a developer wants to go against their planning documents,

[2:02:15] then there better be widespread communities

[2:02:17] of court for doing and say, unfortunately,

[2:02:20] that doesn't exist together.

[2:02:22] This proposal has faced overwhelming opposition

[2:02:24] for our community since it won't public over a year ago.

[2:02:28] This map shows the addresses of people

[2:02:30] who have signed the petition against rezoning the property

[2:02:32] in favor of keeping the current R3 designation.

[2:02:36] Over 1,600 people have signed the petition

[2:02:38] against resounding and this map shows that the opposition is wide spread across the entire city.

[2:02:44] Have we ever seen citywide opposition for a resounding like this one? And I mean truly citywide

[2:02:51] opposition, as you can see I'm a map. This is downtown right here and there are people from all over

[2:02:58] the city who have signs this petition. This is not about NIMBY. This is about our community gathering

[2:03:04] around a common vision for our city.

[2:03:06] While student oriented housing like this,

[2:03:08] maybe appropriate elsewhere,

[2:03:10] our city overwhelmingly agrees

[2:03:11] that this property should not be resound.

[2:03:14] In fact, the title of a petition signature page

[2:03:16] reads as follows, quote,

[2:03:18] keep 473 South Main Street R3,

[2:03:21] stop B1C resounding,

[2:03:23] and there are over 1600 signatures on that petition.

[2:03:28] We now humbly ask you as your constituents

[2:03:31] to please listen to this common vision

[2:03:33] that our community has demonstrated

[2:03:34] and please keep the properties out into our three.

[2:03:37] Finally, please consider how voting

[2:03:39] now on this proposal could open the door

[2:03:40] to a better yes tomorrow.

[2:03:42] There could be the possibility of a different development

[2:03:44] here that better aligns with the goals and vision

[2:03:46] of our community.

[2:03:48] Maybe a development with zero for better immunists.

[2:03:52] There's been an argument tonight

[2:03:53] that it's not financially feasible to build

[2:03:56] without four better immunists.

[2:03:58] However, I'd like to point out that urban exchange

[2:04:00] which seems to be a very popular downtown apartment building

[2:04:03] has zero four-bedroom units.

[2:04:06] There are also several recently completed

[2:04:08] apartment buildings downtown that don't even have three

[2:04:11] bedroom units that are only one in two better

[2:04:13] units. It is totally possible and financially

[2:04:16] profitable even to build one in two better

[2:04:18] units downtown. Take it for me. I'm the

[2:04:21] finance professors here. Thank you. Thank you.

[2:04:29] I appreciate your time.

[2:04:31] I appreciate your time.

[2:04:32] Good

[2:04:42] evening.

[2:04:43] My name is Aaron Garboy, live on Paul Street.

[2:04:46] With the students coming back, I've seen my neighbors come back.

[2:04:50] My neighbors are actually students.

[2:04:52] I get to know them every year.

[2:04:54] I get to know the students up the street.

[2:04:56] Do you know what they all have in common?

[2:04:57] I live on Paul Street.

[2:04:59] Almost exactly.

[2:05:00] Hopefully, this is going to go in. They all have cars. So, this fantasy that they won't bring

[2:05:08] their cars because it's in walking distance, it's not true because I see it every day. I'm

[2:05:14] starting to see problems with parking on Paul already and we're not even into the really good

[2:05:22] section of the year with football games, parties, things like that, going on.

[2:05:29] And so what's going to happen when we put more people in the building than we have parking

[2:05:33] spaces?

[2:05:34] They're going to move out into the community.

[2:05:37] We are not going to see the enforcement that we need because there's not going to be the

[2:05:40] money for it because they've lowered their profits.

[2:05:44] So I really think that what you're looking at is a monstrosity downtown, a problem that

[2:05:51] just waiting to happen. And a legacy that I don't think that any of you really truly want.

[2:05:56] Please vote now. Thank you. Thank you.

[2:06:03] Do you have anyone else?

[2:06:06] How many more do we have?

[2:06:11] We'd like to thank you for listening to us and my name is Frank Steller.

[2:06:17] I live on Poland, Preston, Drive and I'm opposed to rezoning and I'm very concerned about the

[2:06:24] full street traffic and I would be also for park and health care because I work in the health care.

[2:06:34] So part would be healthy if all of us, thank you.

[2:06:38] Thank you.

[2:06:39] Who's next?

[2:06:44] Madam Mayor, Pena Yotis Yana Kuros, City resident.

[2:06:47] I've known all the City Council members for a long time and I would like to remind us

[2:06:53] of Council Member Bois' admonition from last planning commission, which is that we should make

[2:07:00] decisions on the basis of their merit rather than on the basis of relationships.

[2:07:05] And in that spirit, I would also recommend that it might be wise to cast our net as broadly

[2:07:14] as possible for those merits.

[2:07:17] And to that end, a number of us here in this room have been participating in a People's

[2:07:22] comprehensive plan process because we know that the city's process from 2017 and the

[2:07:28] way shaping up already is not going to be casting that broad net. So at the most

[2:07:34] recent meeting I had the opportunity to speak to a person had very

[2:07:38] interesting perspective. In my year he sounded like an architect, not that I know

[2:07:44] how architects speak, but when I did speak to a particularly famous architect he

[2:07:50] able to open my eyes to things that I couldn't see before. And this person spoke that same way.

[2:07:56] He described the, and I can't do justice to him. So I have my no B2C. I'm carrying it for Mr.

[2:08:02] Paul here for Paul. He described the building being large and are we going to move city hall?

[2:08:09] And no city halls in a good position. And he then guided my attention to the Liberty Street

[2:08:14] court or where we were standing at Liberty Park. And he said, what do you see? And he just he guided

[2:08:19] me through seeing empty and underused space, and he proceeded to describe economic development

[2:08:26] and other places to put the density. So I think he would have been against B2C, and I

[2:08:33] suggested that I can't do justice to this, that he should come and speak. But he didn't. He

[2:08:39] said this was just talk, and that it meant nothing, and especially the things that he was saying

[2:08:45] meant nothing because he was nobody, because he was nobody. Now this was a person who was opening

[2:08:52] my eyes and ways that even a lot of the very enlightening testimony here wasn't able to do

[2:08:59] and he viewed himself this way and he didn't have a stake in this because he didn't live in the

[2:09:04] neighborhood so we had a really unique perspective. In fact he insinuated and I didn't probe that

[2:09:10] didn't live anywhere.

[2:09:13] So we could be doing a lot better than what we're doing right now, by

[2:09:19] rest genuinely respecting public input and understanding that we have a comprehensive plan

[2:09:25] process that's already in progress. There's no urgency. There's no urgency to build houses.

[2:09:31] There's no urgency for this and that. If you look at the Virginia Housing Commission's most

[2:09:35] recent reports on jobs and housing, for all the panic that we're hearing here, we're in

[2:09:41] the middle of the pack in terms of Virginia.

[2:09:44] And things are easing.

[2:09:46] There's no urgency.

[2:09:47] We can say no tonight, and as an entire community, do comprehensive economic planning instead

[2:09:54] of case by case neighborhood by neighborhood, and genuinely guide the growth of our community.

[2:10:00] Community. And if it turns out that we need a certain kind of density here, okay, so be it. But in the process, we'll pool the wisdom we have here and I encourage everybody to come to the people's

[2:10:12] plan, including our modelers, we need a model traffic, we need a model parking demand, we need

[2:10:19] some engineering insight that wasn't present at the last planning commission work session,

[2:10:23] and really respect that there are no no bodies in our city, and really respect that everybody's

[2:10:32] input counts and make it possible for this to be a city, not just for all, but buy the people

[2:10:40] who live here.

[2:10:40] Thank you so much, Madame.

[2:10:41] Good

[2:10:57] evening, Council members.

[2:10:59] May you all in, may you all in.

[2:11:01] My name is El vertucortez Mendez and I have a opinion about the housing.

[2:11:11] I would like to advise that don't approve any for now because I was investigating and the

[2:11:24] have any control or increase in the rent.

[2:11:28] I work with the public every day, and people

[2:11:30] is complaining about this one.

[2:11:33] As soon as the rent house and the next year

[2:11:37] and next six months increase in three or four hundred

[2:11:40] and we don't have limits, and then I would like to,

[2:11:46] if you make some low or something to control,

[2:11:49] to establish the rent before continuing, approving.

[2:12:00] And let me introduce some of this respect to

[2:12:09] the...

[2:12:10] I want to make to want to increase the agreement.

[2:12:15] We are not opposes to the progress of the city.

[2:12:19] We understand that the city is growing a woman chain.

[2:12:22] We support multiple of them, responsible and improving the benefit every one,

[2:12:34] but I have

[2:12:36] been talking with people about the lensing project and there is 70% of these people

[2:12:51] they say not. I think that the progress that ignored the voice of the community is not

[2:13:03] progress. And then I want to finish with this one.

[2:13:11] I would like before you take a decision

[2:13:13] about this building, think about it that the most of the community don't want this because

[2:13:20] they know that they will

[2:13:27] lose the calm, the tranquillity that I have, and yes,

[2:13:39] it's where I want to say.

[2:13:41] Now, but don't forget that I finished with this one. People, the community, the neighborhood,

[2:13:51] How do you call it then we have to think about it because you have to hear 40 people, thank you so much.

[2:14:03] Good evening Mayor Reed, Vice Mayor Fleming.

[2:14:06] My name is Matt Winters.

[2:14:07] I live on North Star Terrace in Rockingham County,

[2:14:12] but I am the pastor of Harrison Berg Baptist Church,

[2:14:15] and wanted to share with you a little bit of my perspective.

[2:14:19] And I speak largely for myself and a little bit on behalf of the Church.

[2:14:24] I have tried to be very open-minded in the process and try to balance all of the pros and cons from both sides,

[2:14:35] and I want you to know that regardless of what decision you make will be good neighbors as the church.

[2:14:41] Our concerns are largely with parking, with the access to the church.

[2:14:46] I know that the developer is offering parking spaces.

[2:14:51] I don't know what that's going to look like

[2:14:53] 20 years from now, 10 years from now, 6 months from now. I don't know what an enforcement looks like but that's going to be one of the

[2:15:00] The key things that impacts us. What does that look like? What does that look like with the loss of some of our parking with the closure of South Liberty Street? We're going to be impacted greatly by that as well.

[2:15:11] So this combination of factors is going to be a big concern for us. My spirit and side as I was listening to tonight's proposal is concerning around the focus on college students and staff meetings.

[2:15:26] we hear just the thumping of the music coming across the street from the corner of

[2:15:31] Main Street and Paul Street on the south liberty side, the do drop in, the White House,

[2:15:39] on their party activity weekends and pack some of what we're doing in ministry meetings, things

[2:15:45] like that. So with the focus on just college housing and the lack of family housing, the lack

[2:15:54] of opportunities for single families or single individuals to go.

[2:15:59] I think that's a concern for me.

[2:16:02] But what I would like to say to Mr. Lindsey,

[2:16:05] that I don't know, I just want to tell my story,

[2:16:09] my family has used the same funeral home,

[2:16:13] which is not Lindsey.

[2:16:14] I grew up in Mary, in Virginia.

[2:16:17] But my grandmother, my grandfather, my great-grandmother,

[2:16:21] when I drive by there that is the place where our family gathers.

[2:16:27] What I'm sad about and administering to the families that we minister to

[2:16:33] is the tearing down of the Lindsey funeral home that has 60 years been

[2:16:40] or however long the ministry has been there but at least the building is built in the 1950s and

[2:16:51] remember mom, grandma, when kids come into town or come back to town, I had a cousin that

[2:16:59] passed away at 21 years old in Roxbury, North Carolina, earlier this year, and we went to

[2:17:05] the same funeral home. That's the family funeral home, the family cemetery. And so to lose

[2:17:12] that for a part or for town homes or for a larger building, we're taking away a part of our

[2:17:20] in our collective memory, and I think my ask of you is could you consider some sort of solution or building program where we incorporate what's there, so that folks don't lose that part of their memory, so that we don't just throw away something that the place where I last saw my mom or I last saw my father.

[2:17:44] I think that matters to people, and it's getting lost in all of the stories of

[2:17:50] imagining the future. I know that we have to make changes. I know that we have to do

[2:17:55] something with density, we're sensitive to that, we're aware of that, but for us

[2:18:00] in the ministry world, losing the place where we have said goodbye, I think, is really

[2:18:08] that is untapped and we haven't talked about, so just want to share that.

[2:18:12] Thank you.

[2:18:27] Good evening.

[2:18:28] I'm John Mansfield.

[2:18:29] I live at 505 South Mason Street.

[2:18:34] There are many reasons previously discussed and mentioned again tonight not to approve the

[2:18:40] rezoning of the limousie property.

[2:18:42] There have also been several rumors if rezoning what happens if this rezoning is denied.

[2:18:49] I would like to address three of them.

[2:18:53] First is been reported that residents have pledged an additional $250,000.

[2:18:59] If the rezoning is denied tonight, and Galensi property is successfully purchased for an expanded

[2:19:05] build-art park, similar to the particular post-rocking amgreens.

[2:19:11] I can confirm that this pledge was in fact made within the past 24 hours.

[2:19:18] I have spoken with those involved and have seen the sign document.

[2:19:24] To put that in perspective, this single private pledge of $250,000 is approximately twice the total amount per profit for the lake.

[2:19:36] Second, we have been told that if this property is not resumed, the owner made by Wright build approximately 30 townhouses,

[2:19:44] housing about 120 students.

[2:19:48] That alternative would require a major construction project potentially lasting 2-3 years

[2:19:55] with substantial development financing market and operational risk.

[2:20:01] With Dr. Lindsay considered the significant financial tax, civic, and legacy benefits of a public, private cash purchase at Fair Market Value.

[2:20:13] The proceeds could then be invested in a diversified tax banished portfolio, without the development and operational risks at large student housing of a large student housing project.

[2:20:25] Third, we have heard that the city simply does not have the money.

[2:20:29] The city has an annual budget of approximately $477 million, significant tax revenues, and strong

[2:20:38] municipal bond credits.

[2:20:41] In combination with funds already raised by Bill that Park, together with grants, sponsorships,

[2:20:47] naming opportunities, and private donations.

[2:20:51] The city contribution towards acquiring this property and completing a phase one development

[2:20:56] rock-down greens could represent as little as approximately 1% of the

[2:21:01] annual budget.

[2:21:04] There will always be competing projects and competing priorities.

[2:21:08] The question tonight is whether they're particular property, or this particular property,

[2:21:13] at this particular location, presents an opportunity important enough to preserve.

[2:21:19] In some ways, this decision reminds me of the original heritage golf course decision.

[2:21:26] The golf course was said to be needed despite other courses in the area and it was expected

[2:21:33] to be financially successful for the city despite substantial infrastructure and maintenance

[2:21:39] costs.

[2:21:41] Those expectations did not materialize as anticipated.

[2:21:45] Today you are being asked to approve a four to five story purpose belt student housing

[2:21:51] project at one of the most prominent gateways to downtown. It could house hundreds of students

[2:21:58] and would include a five-level parking garage. The associated parking and traffic concerns

[2:22:05] are to be addressed in part through relatively modest one-time profits. At the same time,

[2:22:13] JMU's President and Board of Visitors have announced a long-term plan to increase on campus housing

[2:22:20] to approximately 30% friction to approximately 60% of enrollment.

[2:22:26] That should at least cause us to question whether additional purpose-built student housing

[2:22:30] is the best permanent use of this unique property.

[2:22:35] There are alternatives to the golf course, and there are better alternatives to the link.

[2:22:41] Tonight you do not have to approve rock-town greens.

[2:22:45] You only have to preserve the opportunity to consider it.

[2:22:48] Please follow the Planning Commission's recommendation.

[2:22:51] and go against me, zoning this unique gateway property.

[2:22:56] Thank you.

[2:23:08] I'm the real estate broker for this property,

[2:23:12] and I would like to say I'd like Dr. Mansell a lot.

[2:23:15] He's a great guy, but I disagree with him on some of these things.

[2:23:19] First of all, the golf course was public money.

[2:23:23] And this is all private money.

[2:23:25] So this is the way the city can benefit

[2:23:27] and put money into his coffers rather than take away,

[2:23:30] which the golf course has done so.

[2:23:32] The Lindsay is now a smaller, more refined structure than the original plan.

[2:23:38] The developer has shown real flexibility in scaling back the project to address community

[2:23:44] concerns.

[2:23:46] Consider the site itself, the 2040 plan, called for exactly this type of use on this parcel.

[2:23:54] If this project were proposed on any other parcel, between the municipal building and the

[2:24:02] The developer could have been able to build the six-story complex without providing any parking whatsoever.

[2:24:10] So think about that.

[2:24:12] So if this developer went to Gus's, Gus's lot there, and built, he would not have to do any parking places at all.

[2:24:21] But we're getting a lot with this developer.

[2:24:25] We're getting a beautiful apartment complex with a significant amount of downtown parking.

[2:24:29] and that's a very rare for downtown projects.

[2:24:34] If Harrisonburg is going to be a city,

[2:24:37] then we need to act like we are one.

[2:24:40] That means supporting well-designed,

[2:24:42] walkable mixed use buildings in our urban core.

[2:24:47] Rather than pushing back on the very kind of project,

[2:24:50] our own planning documents say we want and need.

[2:24:55] The smaller concept has required the building to have a greater percentage of units,

[2:24:59] Thanks for watching, and don't forget to like, share, and subscribe to our channel.

[2:25:00] Which will be appealing to students. But it's not the sole focus of the project. Just as Urban Exchange has been a positive, multifamily project for the city, for the past 20 years, the Lindsey offers the same opportunity.

[2:25:16] And I would say that the Urban Exchange also has people that are non-students living in it, just like the Lindsey would as well.

[2:25:26] There's a practical safety benefit as well.

[2:25:30] The design addresses a long-standing traffic hazard,

[2:25:33] the south and north turn, beyond the Baptist Church,

[2:25:37] that has been a persistent trouble spot for drivers.

[2:25:40] The development solves that problem with the extension of Paul Street,

[2:25:44] allowing the training to be made in a much safer manner.

[2:25:47] Also a more densely populated downtown means additional people on the streets at night which means more safety for all those walking and out at night.

[2:26:01] Downtown businesses need the link as well or need the Lindsay as well.

[2:26:07] A project that brings hundreds of new residents and students within walking distance of Main Street is exactly the kind of foot traffic

[2:26:15] our downtown businesses need to survive in to grow.

[2:26:21] There's a financial case for the city as well,

[2:26:24] the added tax base,

[2:26:26] and investment of this project represents approximately half a million dollars

[2:26:31] is what Harrisonburg needs.

[2:26:35] And let's discuss affordable housing,

[2:26:38] building more housing, even market rate housing,

[2:26:43] helps affordability.

[2:26:44] Every new unit gives an existing resident somewhere to move, which frees up their previous

[2:26:52] home for someone else.

[2:26:55] This filtering effect is well documented, a quick search on the economics of housing

[2:27:00] supply will confirm it.

[2:27:03] We won't solve housing affordability by turning down new residential housing projects.

[2:27:10] Beyond design, it's safety considered the alternative, under current zoning, the property owner has the right to build 34 bedroom townhouses by right, no rezoning required.

[2:27:25] I would much rather see a professionally designed architecturally pleasing mixed use building, with any social activity contained inside,

[2:27:35] than 30 cheaply built rental townhouses, each with a yard suited to hosting exterior

[2:27:43] parties.

[2:27:46] Each with a, I'm sorry, if this project is denied, that by right

[2:27:51] development is very likely what replaces it and it would be the highest financial use

[2:27:57] of land for the owner. So the question tonight is not if you want this project.

[2:28:04] But the question is, do you want this project, which is a gorgeous looking building, or a 30 townhouses?

[2:28:15] And I would personally choose this wonderful plan called the Lindsay.

[2:28:21] Thank you very much.

[2:28:31] Hi, my name is Sierra Lambert.

[2:28:33] I live downtown on East Elizabeth Street.

[2:28:36] I'm a real estate agent and a recent J.M.U. grad.

[2:28:38] At this project gets approved, the functionality of downtown will be drastically affected,

[2:28:44] reducing street parking for surrounding residents and visitors and increasing traffic heavily

[2:28:48] on the two streets that the development will be between Liberty and Main Street,

[2:28:53] which are also both streets that the city plans to reduce to one lane roads in accordance with the downtown 2040 plan.

[2:29:00] As someone who wants to live downtown while being a genius student,

[2:29:03] I know students will bring their car and have more freedom to go to the grocery store

[2:29:08] and even to drive to East Campus when they're trying to get to their 8 a.m. on time.

[2:29:13] The newly proposed plan has removed all parking

[2:29:16] profits and will only provide 320 parking spaces for

[2:29:20] 444 bedrooms, forcing residents to overflow into

[2:29:24] public parking that is already limited, especially during the

[2:29:27] farmers market and church services. Additionally, forcing tenants to pay for

[2:29:32] parking only incentivizes them to park in the free public parking spaces instead.

[2:29:37] The link does not serve a diverse range of people because of its emphasis on dorm-style four-bedroom

[2:29:43] units in high rental rates. Housing needs to be built for people who plan to stay here year-round to

[2:29:49] help businesses. Creating more expensive luxury housing does not open up less expensive housing

[2:29:55] for those who need it. This is a theory called trickle-down housing which has been

[2:30:00] Approving time and time again, to fail. Have you ever heard of trickle down economics? It doesn't work.

[2:30:10] In addition to JMU's new housing plan, there are many better ways to prove provide housing for our growing community.

[2:30:18] The city is currently in the process of redoing their zoning rules.

[2:30:21] To accommodate for our growing town, the city can allow for more density and current homes by being less stressed about accessory dwelling units and due plexus,

[2:30:29] And by increasing the number of people allowed to live in houses that are able to physically hold more people,

[2:30:35] like homes with more bedrooms than they're zoning will allow to be used.

[2:30:39] Not to mention, there are many great alternative plots for this development that our first sale

[2:30:45] will have less community pushback in our in-walking distance of jamium and downtown.

[2:30:50] Such as CVS on reservoir and a lot behind it as well.

[2:30:54] Blacks, paint and floor covering on West Market Street,

[2:30:58] Grand Packaging Plastic Products Plant,

[2:31:00] which is also on West Market Street.

[2:31:02] In my personal favorite, which is the right in my backyard,

[2:31:07] the Russes lot, which is a larger and less expensive lot

[2:31:10] than the Lindsey property and walk-in distance of downtown and J.M.U.

[2:31:14] and it's right across from a local grocery store.

[2:31:17] I also want to remind City Council about the potential tax breaks

[2:31:21] from this developer, building in an opportunity to zone, as well as the high likelihood of

[2:31:28] jam you acquiring the property after the link is built, leading to less or no tax dollars

[2:31:32] for the city of Harrisonburg to use. If you say no to this, you will still get plenty

[2:31:37] of other developers looking to invest in downtown Harrisonburg. This is not an all-or-nothing

[2:31:43] matter. If the rezoning is denied today, I ask the city to seriously consider buying the property

[2:31:50] to preserve the historic let's see funeral home by building it or funeral home building by

[2:31:55] turning it into a welcome center, community space, more city offices, or rent it out for income,

[2:32:01] and also to save the last large green space and downtown Harrisonburg by turning it into a

[2:32:07] decent-sized park and permanent outdoor music venue. I love and commend the work that HDR and

[2:32:13] build our park have been going to revamp the Turner Pavilion, but they have an extremely small

[2:32:17] face to work with, and if I'm being honest, it's mainly asphalt and concrete.

[2:32:22] Our town deserves more than that.

[2:32:24] Surrounding cities like Stanton and Charlottesville and even New York City have made

[2:32:29] a partial priority.

[2:32:30] Thank you.

[2:32:31] I'm sorry.

[2:32:32] I'm at four minutes.

[2:32:33] I'm almost done.

[2:32:34] I will all be done in four or five minutes.

[2:32:37] Thank you.

[2:32:38] Even Jim, you have been intentional about their green spaces.

[2:32:42] The Lindsay Law is adjacent to the Turner Previllian and would serve perfectly as a park

[2:32:46] expansion.

[2:32:47] The city has proposed to spend $26 million just $26 million just to renovate the building we're

[2:32:54] standing in. The Lindsey property was listed at $6 million. A little bit of re-budgeting can go a

[2:33:00] long way and survey greater purpose to be the best investment for our town. A park would also

[2:33:05] make people want to live and visit downtown and increase foot traffic for businesses. I ask the city

[2:33:10] to think strategically about what will be the best fit for downtown Harrisonburg and what will be best

[2:33:15] to serve the community and it's easy to see that the majority of us want you to say no to be one

[2:33:21] see. Thank you.

[2:33:31] Good evening. Do I need to change the mic or move the mic over there?

[2:33:35] Okay. I don't. I was always told. Don't touch it.

[2:33:37] Let's do it. My name is Jennifer. I am a city resident. I am an either. I'm just a resident.

[2:33:45] I, as of just this year, I just moved just recently. I just wanted to be a fresh voice.

[2:33:53] I don't have an elaborate speech.

[2:33:56] I don't have a paper map.

[2:33:57] I don't have a purple sheep.

[2:33:59] But I just wanted to provide just my own take.

[2:34:02] As someone who is working on a single working adult

[2:34:06] about the rezoning, I heard a lot of talk.

[2:34:09] You've already heard most of what's said

[2:34:11] there've been great arguments for and against.

[2:34:13] I really wanted to point out the parts

[2:34:15] that affects me as an individual who's not a student

[2:34:18] or not yet a business owner.

[2:34:21] There's talk about affordable housing, how this will provide affordable housing.

[2:34:27] I think it's already been suggested what it's for, but affordable to who, as someone

[2:34:34] who's experienced student housing, it's normally a stretch for a regular person, for a person

[2:34:40] with even a professional job to afford student housing.

[2:34:44] It goes up and up, even for students, it will be a struggle unless they are well-sets in that financial area.

[2:34:53] I don't see how it will help.

[2:34:55] I'm not positive that will help with those of us who are professional for families.

[2:35:00] For people who plan on big staying on term in the area, parking is, you've already heard about, you've already heard information on parking, how, yes, it will be, it sets men's stories high, but it's as someone already argued, someone's going to be, it's not going to be okay, if someone has the pay for it and someone's going to be feeling all the free parking without the residents cannot use.

[2:35:23] So, I just wanted to say, I thank you all for listening to me today, I just wanted to bring out my voice out here today.

[2:35:30] I hope that you'll make the best vote for...

[2:35:33] I'm not saying don't make a vote for the Jamie students because the Jamie students are ready to hear to bring in on your economy here.

[2:35:40] But please consider the residents, those who are here long-term, those who are working long-term,

[2:35:46] but that's which I wish to be.

[2:35:47] in those who are in those who are paying taxes and making inheritance and making a legacy in

[2:35:54] Harrisburg. Thank you for your time.

[2:36:09] Well, my name's Steve Harn, I live at 25 Campbell Street. I've been an old town for about 25 years

[2:36:17] and I was sort of neutral on this project and I think that's probably what the majority of people in

[2:36:22] the city feel. There's sort of just counting on you to make a decision based on the greater bid.

[2:36:29] I know people in old town who were actually very far this development, they're not here tonight again, they're just counting on you to sort of make the best decision.

[2:36:38] I just wanted to make a few points first in terms of mainly about the fact that it seems to somehow be viewed negatively that there'll be college students in this proposed development.

[2:36:49] And, you know, this is a college town to extend, to have a 2040 plan, you've got to include

[2:36:55] college students in it, and to the extent you're going to include them in it, where do you

[2:36:59] want them to be?

[2:37:00] Do you want them to be down at roses where they're going to have to drive to your town?

[2:37:04] And they're going to be the last likely to walk, or do you want them here?

[2:37:07] If you want to make maximum benefit of this property in terms of smart development, you really

[2:37:12] want to geared towards college students, and then the rest of the town, open for other types

[2:37:18] people to live in. And so I don't think it's a negative feature that this is mainly going to

[2:37:24] be college students, I think it's a positive feature. And the end, I think, whether this

[2:37:28] is a good decision for the city or not, just depends on how well it's done. If 10 years

[2:37:32] from now it's well managed as a well built building with low traffic impact, I think most people

[2:37:38] are going to be happy with that decision. If it's poorly built, poorly managed and has negative

[2:37:43] impacts people aren't going to be happy with that decision, but as far as the college students

[2:37:49] people are comparing, you know, this building to buildings that serve as defacto,

[2:37:55] sorority, and fraternity houses, I lived next to the triplex on Campbell Street,

[2:38:00] that's rented out by the bedroom, nine units, so similar to this by the bedroom.

[2:38:05] And last semester, five of the nine walked to school, two of the nine didn't have cars,

[2:38:11] This semester three of the nine don't have cars so people say oh, they're going to bring cars. They're not going to walk

[2:38:18] that

[2:38:19] You know, this has been this been this way for 20 years and statistics that's called a representative sample. That's the type of

[2:38:26] Information you want to make decisions off of so I disagree with this notion that the students are not going to walk you can stand on Mason Street every day

[2:38:33] any hour and see them walking back and forth to school and so

[2:38:39] So, you know, as I said, I think whether this is a good decision or not, all depends

[2:38:43] on how well it's done, but in terms of saying, well, these are college students and this

[2:38:49] is going to cause all these problems.

[2:38:51] I just disagree with that.

[2:38:52] I think it's fine if there's college students there, especially if it's a managed building.

[2:38:57] I think it probably would be better than townhouses, so like I said, I don't want to say what's

[2:39:03] the best decision or what decision to make, but I don't think the fact that it's going

[2:39:07] a lot of college students should be a negative in terms of the citizen name.

[2:39:12] Thank you.

[2:39:24] Good evening to council.

[2:39:25] My name is Bob Corsoe.

[2:39:26] I live on Chestnut Drive, Mayor, Vice Mayor, council members.

[2:39:34] I came here in 1988.

[2:39:37] And since that time I and you and members of the audience have observed the conflicts between

[2:39:46] genius students and city residents. Now to say as my previous speaker just said that there's

[2:39:54] So the problem with students, I think, ignores the...

[2:40:00] That we can see very clearly the days after a weekend parties. So I believe before I moved here in the 1980s, the city council was concerned about the transfer of properties, well, not the transfer of properties, but the fact that a lot of the old town residences were being converted to student housing.

[2:40:30] place regulations to stop that.

[2:40:36] This in effect would be a student dorm.

[2:40:42] So, right in the world, we want to put a student dorm right next to all town, where the conflict has been going on, and then reduced over the past 40 years, more than 20 years.

[2:40:58] So, I would encourage you to consider that as the major reason you should vote no to lessen or at least not exacerbate the conflicts between JMU students and Old Town residents.

[2:41:14] I don't live in Old Town, so I don't have any skin in this game, but it seems obvious to me from my experience that you don't want to make the situation worse.

[2:41:25] by putting a student door right smack at the gateway to downtown and right next to Old Town.

[2:41:32] So I would encourage you to vote against it for that reason, and also for the reason I was very surprised to hear that they had 1600 signatures,

[2:41:42] which isn't what was just being said that people don't really care, they just want to leave it up to you to make a good decision.

[2:41:48] It's not the case if you have 1600 signatures in the city of 50,000, which really, if you

[2:41:56] take out the J&U students is 30,000.

[2:42:00] So, and I keep hearing about density, and we need to help the businesses, and we need to

[2:42:04] have more density down town.

[2:42:06] Well, there's other ways to get density on this property without putting us doing more of

[2:42:13] So I would encourage you to keep that in mind as you make this difficult decision, and I thank you for your service.

[2:42:34] I would normally dress a little nicer, but I wanted you to think about what would Dolly do.

[2:42:39] That's what my shirt says. What would Dolly do? She would support her community. She would support residents. She would support parks.

[2:42:48] She would support affordable housing, and if you think that this is going to be affordable housing, then I think we need to have a bigger talk

[2:42:59] But I want you to put planning first and we haven't done the planning yet because it's zoned right now and you're trying to change the zoning without the planning being done first

[2:43:12] And so to make the supportable housing, it would be one in two bedrooms.

[2:43:17] They, and I understand that they can't make their money off of that.

[2:43:20] Well, there are certain places in a city where Chick-fil-A is going to build.

[2:43:26] Where McDonald's is going to build has to be really high, you know, chance of revenue, right?

[2:43:34] It doesn't mean just because they won't go there, or CVS won't go there, that a business won't go there.

[2:43:41] So just because this developer won't go there, doesn't mean any developer will choose not to go there.

[2:43:50] All developers will choose not to go there.

[2:43:52] And so on Stephanie West, by the way, on Myers, and sorry about that for being backwards.

[2:44:00] But I think we can all say that the Dollywood Support community would support affordability,

[2:44:07] and that she would vote no-one this and that's why I'm asking you to do. Thank you.

[2:44:19] Anyone else?

[2:44:26] Evening. Thank you for your patience and listening to every single one of

[2:44:31] my name is John McMurray. I live at 4.50 Otsd.

[2:44:35] My next-door neighbor used to live on Mason Street. They sold that house because too many

[2:44:41] drunk and college kids kept violating their house and moved up to Otsd. They could be a block

[2:44:48] away from it, up a hill so poor kids can't walk up and they're drunk, I guess.

[2:44:56] I'm going to highly encourage you to say no for...

[2:45:00] A few various reasons. One, you have an opportunity then to come back and look at this again, perhaps with a different proposal, perhaps with a different developer. If you say yes, it's done. It's done. You can't go back.

[2:45:20] I got a dog a few months ago. I lived my dog. He's a cute little puppy and we went for a walk. Yesterday morning, we tried to walk about a mile or two every day. And I went, I went, I went, I went,

[2:45:31] Let's see where I go down Newman and then along Mason Street and

[2:45:38] Well, can you imagine what I had decide step on a walk with my dog?

[2:45:46] There were broken smear enough bottles, there were beer cans everywhere

[2:45:50] You know you knew which houses the kids were living in and now you want to put

[2:45:58] 400 and 40 bedrooms across that parking lot with no residential restrictions, so if I was a cute young single guy, you know, and I've found my cute little girlfriend, I could just move her in, because there's no restrictions, so you're not going to have 440 people, you're going to have more.

[2:46:24] And they're young, we were all young, come on.

[2:46:29] We party, we had a great time, you know, yes, we became

[2:46:32] medgimicated, like it was good, and we progressed with our lives.

[2:46:35] But at that point, yeah, you know, you really want to have some fun as well.

[2:46:42] And I don't blame them for wanting to have fun.

[2:46:45] I do blame people if they want to have fun.

[2:46:47] two blocks from my house at 400 people plus. That gets weird. We have all driven past

[2:46:56] Main Street or West Market Street and seen the tarps around the lawns and hundreds of

[2:47:03] hopefully of age kids having a grand time there on perhaps a moral day we can or I don't know

[2:47:11] just as before school starts, 400 bedrooms right across your parking lot there.

[2:47:20] Please, vote no.

[2:47:22] Take a moment and realize that you can come back and revisit this with a different proposed

[2:47:29] developer.

[2:47:30] I don't know, but that's wrong.

[2:47:34] Thank you.

[2:47:42] Okay.

[2:47:43] Do we have anyone else so we can get this done?

[2:47:47] Seeing none, Amy, do we have any callers?

[2:48:09] Waiting. Mr. Parks said there were people on hold.

[2:48:12] Waiting for them to come for.

[2:48:25] Caller?

[2:48:30] Okay.

[2:48:30] Caller, you're now live you have five minutes.

[2:48:33] If you could please state your name and address.

[2:48:41] Caller, we're having difficulty hearing you.

[2:48:43] If you could speak directly in your phone, if you have an on-speaker phone.

[2:48:55] Mr. Barry, we're having difficulty hearing you, you may have reception issues.

[2:49:00] If you could hang up and call back, we'll try to get you again.

[2:49:05] All right,

[2:49:14] I ended the call.

[2:49:15] I'll wait for Mr. Parks to transfer another.

[2:50:01] Caller, you're now live. Can you state your name and address for the record?

[2:50:06] Bucky, Barry, Harris, Murray City resident.

[2:50:13] All right, Mr. Barry, you have five minutes. Go ahead.

[2:50:16] Yeah, what I'm calling about, I'll go to the road around over the weekend and see the parties going on.

[2:50:22] HPD, they've a struggle and I answer in the calls. I was monitoring the calls.

[2:50:26] I'd like to see a park put down over the linty spot, be as if a park's put there.

[2:50:30] I'm wrong to write a significant check out to cover the cost in the park.

[2:50:36] The only thing I wanted to return to Trump, named after my boy, decided to be the name of my boy.

[2:50:41] What he's done to the community, give me the chance.

[2:50:45] And I don't agree with that.

[2:50:47] I'm wrong to write a check, nice to the park.

[2:50:50] Not only that, I'm going to keep the grass cut and making thing there.

[2:50:53] No cost, no cost of individuals.

[2:50:59] We've got all this is on the book, people have thrown trash on the ground, I wrote around

[2:51:03] I was over on call street, grant, and work in different places, I've seen all kinds

[2:51:08] of trash.

[2:51:09] I want to know why HVB is not right and tickets for beer bottles, someone out on the street,

[2:51:18] and calls on the book, we need enforcement.

[2:51:20] J&U students is not up above the law.

[2:51:22] They should vote no for that.

[2:51:24] I like to know what kind of security is going to have that department complex.

[2:51:27] down town officers no longer on the bike number or he's in a cruiser now

[2:51:31] no down town officer down town I like to know what the security's gonna be there

[2:51:37] and I like to have I like to know what's meant from here in the cap on the rent

[2:51:40] 2,000 dollar

[2:51:44] voucher a saying service is bringing us if you vote for this tonight

[2:51:49] I'll set your careers done on the council thank you for your time

[2:52:04] Mary there's no further callers Mary thank you I will close the public hearing on this

[2:52:10] issue. Y'all might want to ask Mr. Barry, if you got six million dollars, the right

[2:52:17] child chapter. Since he's right in checks. I'm talking about us.

[2:52:24] All right. Yeah, obviously he'll not much to call it. All right, you're ready.

[2:52:37] It's open

[2:52:37] to council. Well, I'll go first since I've already voted for this three times. I think

[2:52:44] planning commission and I just looked back and I realized I made the motion to table it in

[2:52:49] April but I had a cringe doing that because I wanted to go ahead and move it forward but

[2:52:55] I could sense that even Council had some reservations about the size and so on so let's make

[2:53:01] it something we can say yes to and I'm immensely grateful to the developer and the team for

[2:53:08] listening to the community and making the adjustments that they heard from the community,

[2:53:13] make it smaller and low and behold the community pivot since as we don't

[2:53:18] want it at all we want a park they're dreaming that's already a done deal

[2:53:24] that is not happening so I'm sorry I don't want to well one question I

[2:53:33] appreciated here in tonight is what's your why so I wrote down I have been

[2:53:38] consistently saying on council and planning commission Harrison Burke is a

[2:53:43] We need to grow inward and to some degree upward or we keep losing the people and the revenues and all of the infrastructure to the county.

[2:53:54] And the applicants have demonstrated that that's exactly what's happening.

[2:53:59] The county is building circles around us. We are landlocked. We need to grow inward and I'd like to see even more upward.

[2:54:05] I want 10, 12, 20 story buildings someday downtown where it's appropriate.

[2:54:12] I was for this one.

[2:54:13] It was six stories.

[2:54:14] I'm for it at four stories.

[2:54:16] Even though it's sad to lose some of the housing, I said the planning commission

[2:54:20] most recently, but even I can admit that it's more in proportion with the neighborhood

[2:54:26] and if that's what the neighborhood genuinely wanted, you got what you asked for.

[2:54:32] So, there's that, there's the environmental advantage of having downtown urban density,

[2:54:39] walkable, bikeable, as opposed to suburban sprawl, where we lose the revenues and increase

[2:54:47] the wear and tear and pollution of the traffic.

[2:54:51] So that's another good reason for it.

[2:54:54] Housing at all levels, we had the housing study that highlighted something that really surprised

[2:54:59] Let me.

[2:55:00] That we have a mismatch at both ends, that we need more high-level housing, as well as affordable housing, because people who could afford more were living in less than they could afford and increasing the competition for people who that's all they could afford.

[2:55:15] So that was a whole enlightening learning for me that we do need the whole spectrum.

[2:55:21] And even for students, I've been really moved when Mayor Reed welcomes the students to your home, to your new home, to the freshmen.

[2:55:28] And so I'm a little baffled frankly by the disparagement of the students when it's like a third of our community right now understand that issues with the loud and trashing parties that's not what this will be.

[2:55:47] This will be a self-contained building, well-managed, as we've been

[2:55:53] profit, not like the Frat House developments that spill out into the street.

[2:56:02] So, and to have it walkable, bikeable downtown, and lastly, I'll say,

[2:56:10] to have a thriving downtown means having downtown residents who can and will

[2:56:17] walk bike shop downtown. We've heard that over and over. We have in the downtown

[2:56:24] 2040 plan that we intend to bring downtown density. So I intend to still

[2:56:29] consistently support this and I hope that it goes through as planned. Okay I'll go

[2:56:36] because I'm not going to say too much. I've been consistently a no. And I do

[2:56:43] appreciate that the developer laid some adjustments, but I'm still

[2:56:51] on now, I'm a stay on now, for me, yeah, we need housing, we need all types of

[2:56:59] housing. I think we look at each development individually and we decide if,

[2:57:11] you

[2:57:13] for me is not a good fit. I'm not trying to down our students, we know the students are, you know,

[2:57:21] part of our community and that's all well and good, but it's for me is just not. I haven't been

[2:57:43] to try to get there, I just can't get there. So for me, I've been consistent, I know, and I'm

[2:57:53] staying in I know.

[2:57:58] Okay, this is a lot,

[2:58:03] not on my paper. I mean, just a lot in general, long and scared.

[2:58:11] I keep thinking about the phrase, we need housing.

[2:58:17] I keep thinking about this wonderful

[2:58:20] tax base that we keep talking about.

[2:58:27] But then I think about the statement that my fellow council

[2:58:31] member just made. She says we keep losing people. We sure not losing students. We're losing

[2:58:41] people because they don't have any place to live. Downtown businesses should not have to worry

[2:58:49] about thriving if the students are here.

[2:58:54] Students do not equal, thrive, for our downtown.

[2:58:59] We should be building a downtown where businesses run a lucrative operation 12 months a year

[2:59:07] and we are constantly, constantly depending on seven months a year as a way for us to make

[2:59:15] it for these business owners to make a living.

[2:59:18] I don't think this is the right mix of housing.

[2:59:22] Why?

[2:59:24] Because we're losing people.

[2:59:26] We're losing people because they don't have any place to live.

[2:59:29] Young professionals who want to move here don't have any place to live.

[2:59:33] We can talk about that housing study all day long.

[2:59:36] We keep saying there is a loss of or a deficit in housing at the higher end and at the lower end.

[2:59:45] I don't know who pushed the students up to the higher end, but I would think that's what they meant when they said there's a lower

[2:59:52] Yeah, I just don't think that's what people were.

[2:59:55] What the housing study intended to forecast is that there is a lack of...

[3:00:02] We need to make sure they stay in the newest, most up-to-date housing. To me, that's not the mismatch type of housing that we're talking about.

[3:00:14] There's supply and demand. I don't believe that it trickles down in the sense that people are making it seem like it's so easy

[3:00:22] For us to put more students in housing than all of a sudden folks who are on the lower in that spectrum or in the middle of that spectrum who need housing because we need housing all the way across

[3:00:33] Are suddenly going to be like oh

[3:00:36] Now we have more housing to move into I don't believe it happens that fast. It's not happening

[3:00:41] I mean I haven't seen it happen that fast if even when I wasn't on council but then I look at those economic development issues

[3:00:49] I look at the money. I look at the tax base. I'm looking at all of that

[3:00:55] but to me that does not equate to the benefits or the problems that may exist because of the student housing and that's what it is student housing

[3:01:09] That will be right out there right out that door. That's where they're going to be and if I

[3:01:16] Was a smart woman. I would have went around with trash bags this weekend and started picking up cans

[3:01:22] So that I go trade them in for money if they still do that anymore

[3:01:26] But I got this German shoe so I couldn't do that but I

[3:01:31] Think about neighborhood compatibility and I'm not thinking about y'all grouping them bees

[3:01:35] everybody's talking about because that's what they're calling you on

[3:01:37] NIMB's. I'm thinking about neighborhood compatibility, neighborhood

[3:01:42] that's in downtown, neighborhood. And what I want to be downtown, what I

[3:01:50] want to see downtown are thriving businesses and places for children to

[3:01:55] enjoy, for families to enjoy. There's no way you can tell me they're not

[3:02:00] going to be beer cans. There's not going to be rally students. It's not

[3:02:03] to be a mess. I just don't believe that this is the perfect development for this particular

[3:02:11] piece of property. I love lenses. Our family uses lenses. I mean, I don't think of my grandma

[3:02:19] necessarily when I drive past there because I mean, seriously, I mean, I don't, I just think

[3:02:26] of it's a beautiful piece of property with lovely green space. I love all of the green space around it,

[3:02:32] but you know what? It's not my property. So I can't control what they want to put there

[3:02:37] when they want to. When they want to sell it, I guess is what I can't control. So

[3:02:45] then I think about also there's so much to in here. I'm thinking about it's crazy. I think about

[3:02:51] all of this talk of infill development versus sprawl. And I mean, then matter if they sprawl

[3:02:58] out there, they infill here. The cars are still going to be here because students are lazy,

[3:03:03] They get up late because they have a hangover.

[3:03:05] They got a dump in that car and they got to go to class.

[3:03:08] We have, I mean, most of us probably in this room

[3:03:11] have been a student before, or has a child, a cousin,

[3:03:16] enough of your needs.

[3:03:17] We know how it works.

[3:03:21] And when we're talking about cutting down on the cars,

[3:03:24] then I think about liberty street and what liberty street is leading to.

[3:03:27] And I think, oh, that's a wonderful, wonderful,

[3:03:31] You know, Collap rates is all going to look really in whose mind is it going to go like that.

[3:03:37] That's my thing is I know what we're going for as a city.

[3:03:42] We want people to use different modes of transportation, use those feet, get on your bike,

[3:03:47] ride around.

[3:03:49] But in actuality, I don't know if that's just some fairy tale land that we're all thinking

[3:03:54] about.

[3:03:55] Or if it actually could happen, I don't think it's going to happen right there.

[3:04:00] Now, the housing that I believe that we need is housing for the two-bedroom housing, three-bedroom

[3:04:07] housing, one-bedroom housing.

[3:04:09] I don't believe we need fancy upscale housing for college students to live in because when they

[3:04:17] build another development and it will happen, whether it's on the outskirts of the city and

[3:04:22] it's in the county, I'm not sure where, but it's going to happen, will they go running to that

[3:04:28] or upscale apartment building. So I just, I'm just, I know, I look at that money and the money

[3:04:36] makes me say we need that for a tax base, we need that we need the $70,000, but when I sit

[3:04:43] down and I really think about the $70,000, it doesn't really, it's not going to answer

[3:04:52] The crisis is going to add to the helping hand of the crisis of affordable housing, but it's more...

[3:05:00] Global different things that had to that, not just a gift of $70,000. I'm really thankful that the developers went back to the table.

[3:05:10] I know that takes time and money. I wish that we did have a public engagement process that would keep us from having to send folks back to the table three and four times.

[3:05:21] and money's just, I mean, my dad would say closed the door, we are not heating the outside

[3:05:26] and just say the dollars flying out the doors.

[3:05:28] So obviously we need to do something as a city that puts not only the developer but it puts

[3:05:36] in anybody who wants to do something, not on this scale, on any scale, when we send them back

[3:05:41] to the table, we need to think how can we proactively make it easier for folks to develop

[3:05:47] here.

[3:05:48] So that is an issue and one of the things that this is, this is taught me the most is what we do need to work on.

[3:05:56] It's not that I'm ignoring the fact that there's prophets that have been made that are wonderful.

[3:06:01] I'm glad that traffic impact analysis money was kind of out there.

[3:06:05] I'm great. I understand all of that.

[3:06:08] But I also now have my eyes have been open to the many problems that we have in terms of making development easier,

[3:06:17] easier making that process easier while also attached to this public engagement piece to it.

[3:06:24] But for me, having said all of that when I said it wasn't going to say much, I have a note.

[3:06:34] What I appreciate everyone who's here tonight and certainly neighbors, folks in the community.

[3:06:41] I appreciate the dialogue we have on this. I do believe folks care about this city,

[3:06:46] folks who are both born against this care about the city care about our downtown and

[3:06:52] for many of us we've been here for many decades and have seen the city grow and

[3:06:57] and to where we are today.

[3:07:01] I want to kind of circle to, you know, what a no vote doesn't do.

[3:07:07] Tonight, do I think that's a bit of issue.

[3:07:11] So, your voting against this resoting is a vote to retain the R3Z mix on the property.

[3:07:20] It's not a very specific alternative, so it's not a vote for townhouses, it's not a vote

[3:07:26] for a park, for whatever happens with Lindsey's, because nobody on this disc can guarantee

[3:07:32] what's going to happen on that property with another.

[3:07:35] So,

[3:07:37] as a practical matter, I don't think we can evaluate this application in a vacuum

[3:07:44] user.

[3:07:47] It's a privately owned land, already zone for residential development.

[3:07:53] I know many folks have said, what if we can have a developer, or if we have other plans?

[3:08:00] And we don't own the land, and there is no we in that next phase, it belongs to the

[3:08:09] Lensys.

[3:08:10] It's there at their property.

[3:08:11] It's probably owned.

[3:08:14] You know, another proposal coming forward wouldn't be coming from us, because we don't own

[3:08:18] the property.

[3:08:20] It belongs to the Lensys, and I think the owners told us what he intends to do, both through

[3:08:28] years of doing this proper negotiating, marketing the land, for someone to develop it.

[3:08:38] I think he's told us that he intends to put it to use.

[3:08:43] He owns the property.

[3:08:46] I think the idea that he would not use it in the best financial economic way doesn't make sense to me.

[3:08:55] going to do that. So the question for me isn't, you know, is the Lindsey good enough but it's

[3:09:05] compared to what, you know, I really expect to happen on that property if we vote no, you know,

[3:09:14] is this zoning, rezoning a better outcome than leaving it R3.

[3:09:20] I think based on is the current R3 entitlement

[3:09:25] And when I understand about the economics of the site of making the financial gain, my expectation

[3:09:33] and when I've already heard is the rollback fallback position is by white town and development.

[3:09:42] That's not a development that will come back before Council.

[3:09:46] We will not see that.

[3:09:49] we don't have the ability to make any decisions about that by right use.

[3:10:00] 30, up to 30 towns, maybe more, before bettering town homes, built with service parking.

[3:10:09] We don't have control over the materials, and I think it's very clearly that would be marketed to

[3:10:15] Jamie's students for single bed town homes, is what that becomes.

[3:10:25] Is that a better use for that property?

[3:10:29] We don't have a non-ity above vote up here, that's not how it works, we don't own the property.

[3:10:39] So I think that's a reasonable expectation to think that that will be the next use of the property.

[3:10:46] I understand that the Lindsey, if that's not something that you support, I understand that.

[3:10:54] But we need to understand the choice of a decision.

[3:10:58] This looks like what's going to happen on that property.

[3:11:04] I do think that the process we went through,

[3:11:06] so we started this year ago,

[3:11:10] that worked

[3:11:10] and went through many planning commission reviews,

[3:11:12] counsels, given its feedback, and that over the time

[3:11:17] that the developer has dropped from six stories to four stories

[3:11:21] when we started this out, a lot of the feedback we got

[3:11:25] It was, we don't oppose housing, we just oppose this project, it's too massive, it's too big.

[3:11:34] In some of the developers went and changed that, made those adjustments in this process.

[3:11:45] The maximum units have dropped,

[3:11:52] the height of it has dropped.

[3:11:54] That was what they were asked to do.

[3:12:01] I think the Council has asked for substantial changes in the property and they did that.

[3:12:08] I think is a governing principle for us that we can expect for developers to support public input

[3:12:21] in this process that we have given to them and then they make changes and then we don't

[3:12:28] follow through on on that, where we don't take that in consideration.

[3:12:32] I think that's an important governance piece for us to think about.

[3:12:43] So I set the lens against what seems to be the alternative with

[3:12:53] parking.

[3:12:54] The lens is a five-level parking garage,

[3:12:59] minimum of 320 spaces.

[3:13:02] I see townhomes as surface parking and I see that is also a corridor or access for residents

[3:13:13] to be concerned about as well and we're in an out traffic maybe fewer cars.

[3:13:18] I'm not sure it means less traffic.

[3:13:21] You know, a buy-right townhome development.

[3:13:25] It could be managed professionally but there's no guarantee there's no requirement there

[3:13:29] manage professionally. If we have a lot of townhomes that aren't managed professionally, we see

[3:13:34] what those look like. We see what the student use is there. We see the trash that happens

[3:13:43] on those townhomes. This would be a gateway with townhomes coming into it, but there's no requirement.

[3:13:53] Maybe they have management on it, but there's certainly no requirement to do that. The city

[3:13:58] We would have no enforceable claim to any of that.

[3:14:03] The current prompters do require a third party management,

[3:14:09] register with a city,

[3:14:13] staff looking after that property,

[3:14:16] and it's also binding with a successor property.

[3:14:21] That's enforceable commitment that an R3 subdivision just doesn't care.

[3:14:26] We

[3:14:38] talked about design accountability for this and folks at the question whether there will be design accountability.

[3:14:47] It's when she's been through a number of offers, multiple rounds.

[3:14:53] By right, construction, there's no design review at all on that.

[3:15:00] So that will become what it becomes.

[3:15:06] The by-right alternative, the council, it's certainly smaller without a doubt, and certainly smaller mass-ness project.

[3:15:12] I can't ignore that.

[3:15:18] But on the issues that folks have raised up parking capacity management, public infrastructure, it's downtown.

[3:15:31] I don't think I'm not sure that those townhomes make the gateway to our city that folks are expecting it to be or that the Lindsey itself might look better coming into the city as a gateway.

[3:15:47] I'm not sure the townhomes are a better outcome.

[3:15:52] Also it's kind of looking at other university communities in Virginia.

[3:15:59] Blacksburg, Charlottesville, Fredericksburg, Williamsburg, Williamsburg, Williamsburg.

[3:16:06] Other than Williamsburg, we are a larger city than all of those.

[3:16:12] Blacksburg has an eight-story building downtown they've built for students.

[3:16:17] Charlottesville has a 10- and 11-story building, they've built downstairs for students.

[3:16:24] Fredericksburg, which is an eight-story building, they've built downtown downtown for students.

[3:16:30] All of our university communities in Virginia have large downtown student projects.

[3:16:37] This is four stories.

[3:16:39] So considerably shorter.

[3:16:42] I think responsive to Harris and we don't have to build like other cities do without

[3:16:46] a doubt.

[3:16:47] We don't have to be Charlottesville.

[3:16:50] We don't have to be lynched, but we don't have to be lynched.

[3:16:52] The Charlottesville people don't like that development down to.

[3:16:57] Yes.

[3:16:57] Yeah, I'm not.

[3:16:58] Yeah, I hear you.

[3:16:59] So they have multiple 10 and 11, 12 or another 12-story building.

[3:17:07] But that's not what we're proposing here.

[3:17:13] Right?

[3:17:13] We're looking at a four-story building, much smaller than those other projects.

[3:17:17] So this is a different approach we have here.

[3:17:23] You know, the student housing and GMU question.

[3:17:25] I take that seriously as well.

[3:17:27] So, GMU has a plan and place to grow,

[3:17:37] looking at what, just 60% housing on campus by 2040, 40%

[3:17:44] on by 2032.

[3:17:48] However, they don't start. So, currently, it looks like they have 2028. They want

[3:17:54] to have 1,000 bedroom dorm on campus. I'm not sure there's any way for them to get that, but I know

[3:18:02] Right now, the DMU student enrollment found another 400 students higher this year than last.

[3:18:12] Another year of that, 500 were going to get up to maybe another thousand students,

[3:18:17] and they haven't had any student housing on campus.

[3:18:19] Another year after that, we could have 1500 more students at JMU,

[3:18:26] but no housing provided by JMU.

[3:18:33] Downtown is, as our staff said, where we went students to be, we went them in student

[3:18:40] structured housing. Otherwise they're out in the county, more development goes out there.

[3:18:49] We have the traffic coming into the city,

[3:18:53] that doesn't help us. So having students downtown

[3:19:01] is where we would like to see them in locations closer to Jamue, closer to downtown businesses.

[3:19:09] The badges that go away, when Jamue builds, those aren't going to be equally taken away.

[3:19:18] So the county is likely to lose those beds.

[3:19:22] Those units will have to be converted.

[3:19:24] They like to figure out what to do with those units.

[3:19:29] This is not a perfect project and I don't think anyone up here bleases a perfect project.

[3:19:38] I'm not sure if anyone out there, folks who are against us certainly don't see it that way.

[3:19:46] But the alternative, but also not what we want to see.

[3:19:51] I think this Lindsey's does provide four stories of housing, it does provide some...

[3:20:00] I'm single unit housing in there, enforceable, professional management, not the levels we'd like to see. I get that.

[3:20:09] The project's going to be perfect. A next project, being proposed here, I'm not sure who's going to do that. Who's going to be willing to come in and take that risk, work with the owner and say I'm willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a project that is not likely to get through.

[3:20:31] Again, it's been made pretty clear that the owner of the property is going to make use of

[3:20:37] the property for housing.

[3:20:41] So, the question becomes, is the winzy and the current forms of managed project, a better

[3:20:49] project, or are the townhorns there that I think are very likely to go through, what we want

[3:20:57] to see on that property.

[3:21:00] And we've talked a lot here tonight about what those type of properties look like coming

[3:21:06] into the city.

[3:21:10] If there's an alternative to that, I'd love to see it.

[3:21:13] I've been asking folks for a year, which the alternative that the owner would be willing

[3:21:19] to do and able to do for that property.

[3:21:24] We've seen a three-story building that's been proposed there.

[3:21:27] A five-story building has been proposed. There was an alternative.

[3:21:32] I don't see the owner saying, yes, I'm willing to do that project.

[3:21:42] So my job is to compare the lens to what I think is like even a happen there.

[3:21:47] I think that talent and project there is something I'm not sure.

[3:21:53] Maybe folks on the Dias here support a talent and project got on that.

[3:21:58] if that's something that would be preferable or not,

[3:22:00] I think that's kind of the choice we're going to have here on the diast.

[3:22:05] I don't think that it should be a matter of if you don't take this,

[3:22:12] you're going to get that.

[3:22:14] If you vote yes, this should be on the matter of the project that's on the table.

[3:22:21] No, no, no, no.

[3:22:23] That's not going to be a deal, right?

[3:22:25] So, so, so.

[3:22:25] Well, if you agree with that, then why have you been talking about the other

[3:22:28] for the last 10 minutes?

[3:22:29] And I don't really like that.

[3:22:31] Well, so I do agree on the merits of the project.

[3:22:36] Will this be going to merits of the project then?

[3:22:39] So this provides, as we know, our downtown businesses need folks.

[3:22:47] This is for traffic.

[3:22:49] These are folks who are using our downtown businesses without a doubt.

[3:22:54] This is the place where we need student housing.

[3:22:59] Downtown, closer to campus, building it further out in the county doesn't help us.

[3:23:12] Our staff, our downtown plan, is talked about density, about more building downtown.

[3:23:20] That's what this project does.

[3:23:22] It's part of our 2040 plan of making this B-1 and building,

[3:23:29] and I appreciate the

[3:23:32] in terms that folks have, they're none of these projects

[3:23:35] are without concerns or challenges,

[3:23:39] whichever one we do, there is no perfect project here,

[3:23:43] out of doubt.

[3:23:45] And this is not a perfect project.

[3:23:48] It's not a perfect project.

[3:23:50] It's not going to get a perfect project on this project.

[3:23:54] So, okay, so,

[3:24:00] okay.

[3:24:02] It's not what I want to see on that property as well.

[3:24:06] This provides many of the things we're looking for, additional housing.

[3:24:13] We do need student housing.

[3:24:15] Students here, downtown traffic, pretty downtown businesses that are here.

[3:24:23] It's managed to revise the parking that we wouldn't get with other developed projects downtown.

[3:24:29] We don't have a lot of property downtown where we're going to see this built.

[3:24:34] Okay.

[3:24:36] Yeah.

[3:24:40] Yeah.

[3:24:41] So I would support.

[3:24:43] Yes.

[3:24:47] This is the hardest decision that I'm making.

[3:24:52] Believe it or not, I'm still in between.

[3:24:55] So I'm listening to every single person in addition to their council meeting.

[3:25:01] If it were the first time presenting this project, I will say definitely no. But after taking a long, long time to present things, to change things, I think it's a bad message that we are sending to investors.

[3:25:23] And I worked in the business that I saw how it is frustrated and losing of time and money when I'm trying to present something to take a permit from the city, and they delay delay delay.

[3:25:40] And when we delay there was like a hope that it will be approved.

[3:25:45] That's the intention, of course, from investor,

[3:25:51] why I delayed for something.

[3:25:56] That's part, the other part, I enjoyed actually

[3:26:02] sitting with the neighborhood members.

[3:26:08] And I learned a lot from you.

[3:26:10] And everything, actually, I learned from you.

[3:26:12] And I took, I sent it to you.

[3:26:15] send it to investor helping for information.

[3:26:20] And if I don't like it, I definitely tell them that I don't like it, or we need to do that.

[3:26:25] And the issue of me at the beginning that I presented these issues.

[3:26:29] As they said, is this the perfect one?

[3:26:35] But there are issues of there are things that we have to put in mind.

[3:26:39] As they said, for a business perspective, like we have to respect the investors their time

[3:26:45] and money, of course, the time that they took, actually, that to work on that.

[3:26:52] For the people, of course, who respect that, and then my perspective is that we are losing money,

[3:27:00] if we turn out, this project.

[3:27:03] As you know, that, I mean, we would like the city of Elias on the taxes, and we are actually losing taxes from

[3:27:10] name you number one and there are businesses are leaving also because of the high taxes.

[3:27:17] So the city will definitely go after us for our property and real estate to raise the taxes.

[3:27:24] Of course for their expenses.

[3:27:27] And when I run actually for their disposition I promise myself to prevent any raise of taxes

[3:27:34] because as a farmer, I feel how hard it is, and as you are as a retirees or as any singles,

[3:27:41] it's also hard on them. So if we having it as a park, which is something that I like to have it,

[3:27:49] but what is the revenue coming back to the city? How we can compensate that to the city? How

[3:27:58] the city can pay for the expenses for the schools, for the public works.

[3:28:05] So a lot of issues actually inside me trying to decide or give a side to be on this side or this side.

[3:28:17] I think to that, like some other cities, they really give incentives for investors to come and do the work here.

[3:28:28] especially for college domes. I went to Virginia Tech and they saw how it is kind of similar

[3:28:38] to Jim to Harrison Burke. Harrison Burke is getting bigger and bigger. And we have to admit

[3:28:45] this is a college domes. Believe it or not, a lot of our business is actually based on the

[3:28:53] you and also the students. If we compare it to any other city, we see Jason Harrisonburg

[3:29:00] is the lead and whenever I go actually in every conference I'm proud of being from Harrisonburg

[3:29:07] and the work that the city is doing. So that's that's the reality and when it comes to

[3:29:17] like it or don't like it. Of course, we have to take it into consideration.

[3:29:25] But yeah,

[3:29:26] at the end, I mean, we have to support our city as well.

[3:29:32] Okay. Well, let's make a motion. Is there a motion?

[3:29:39] Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the rezoning of this property with the various

[3:29:44] address this, right? As presented by staff,

[3:29:51] we can't keep having the conversation across.

[3:29:56] Say it again more. I move that we have-

[3:30:00] Through the rezoning to be one sea of the property to be known as the Lensley, with the addresses I don't

[3:30:06] have on the top of my head, all right. 435 and so forth, South Main Street and 282 and so forth,

[3:30:17] South Liberty Street, the Lensley Apartments, as presented by South. That's sufficient.

[3:30:24] All right, how's that count out? Any more discussion?

[3:30:31] No, no, we cannot do that. We cannot do that.

[3:30:35] Yeah, we'll let down

[3:30:40] any more discussion?

[3:30:41] No, ma'am.

[3:30:43] Roll call please. Amy.

[3:30:48] Vice Mayor Fleming.

[3:30:49] Aye.

[3:30:52] Councilmember Alcidun.

[3:30:54] Aye.

[3:30:54] Councilmember Dent.

[3:30:55] Aye.

[3:30:56] Councilmember Robinson.

[3:30:58] No.

[3:30:59] Mayer Reed.

[3:31:00] No.

[3:31:09] All right, let's go to Redra items.

[3:31:15] We'll see if you're in there.

[3:31:23] I want to be able to talk to you.

[3:31:24] You're welcome.

[3:31:25] You're welcome.

[3:31:25] Go on out, please. Go on out, please. Go on out.

[3:32:01] Okay,

[3:32:07] regular items.

[3:32:12] Thank you, Madam Mayor, Adam Flutter, Director of Community Development.

[3:32:15] I have just a quick item here for you.

[3:32:19] If you recall two weeks ago, I'll get the 11th.

[3:32:21] I was here presenting to you the subdivision ordinance amendments

[3:32:24] that were relatively thorough. I need you out to go out of. So we could finish that. Thank you.

[3:32:35] There were rather comprehensive with regard to state code changes that occurred in 2025.

[3:32:41] And we were fully expecting this to be on the consent agenda this evening, but then at a very

[3:32:46] last minute. In fact, some meetings that we had just last week, it occurred to us that if the

[3:32:52] definition went forward, as presented, that was in the documents from last week or from

[3:32:59] two weeks ago.

[3:33:00] We had an unintended consequence to require improvements on small subdivisions and boundary

[3:33:07] adjustments that we did not intend at all.

[3:33:11] Right now, Article D of the subdivision regulations requires sub-deviders to make certain types

[3:33:16] of improvements associated with streets and sidewalks into provide adequate drainage, water

[3:33:20] centric sewer and other utilities. And we fully require that and intended to require that for

[3:33:25] subdivisions that are creating new lots. But we did not intend for that to be the case for

[3:33:30] a lot of line adjustments and a lot of line vacations. So we requested for this to be pulled off

[3:33:35] the consent agenda to make one final amendment. And that is what's shown in your pack at the

[3:33:39] same evening to the definition of subdivision. It's the very last sentence that we're adding,

[3:33:43] which is to clarify that for the purposes of article D, which is associated with making improvements

[3:33:48] that a lot line adjustment or a lot line vacation does not create an additional

[3:33:53] watch of not constitute a subdivision and that is to protect what we

[3:33:57] intended originally. And I will try to answer any questions you might have.

[3:34:01] Any questions?

[3:34:03] All right. Thank you, Adam. Motion, please.

[3:34:11] I move to your approval request to amend the subdivision

[3:34:18] audience and as presented by the staff. I'll second that.

[3:34:22] Any discussion?

[3:34:26] We'll go up, please. Amy.

[3:34:28] Vice Mayor Fleming.

[3:34:30] Councilmember Alcidoon.

[3:34:32] Councilmember Dent.

[3:34:33] Councilmember Robinson.

[3:34:34] Hi.

[3:34:35] Mary.

[3:34:38] All right.

[3:34:38] We're going to other matters.

[3:34:39] Comments from the public limited it to five minutes.

[3:34:43] Matters and not on the regular agenda.

[3:34:46] Any wishes to speak.

[3:34:47] Please state your name, address.

[3:34:49] Go five minutes.

[3:35:02] At a mayor of New York to see on a kudos city resident, this is my first time speaking since the recent election, and I was saying, please to hear a fellow economist say something about representative samples and actually I think meant to say, stationary process from which you can potentially learn, which gets us around, I think a hard time making representative samples, but.

[3:35:34] We got to see a couple of folks who were completely new to politics, go from nothing at all to

[3:35:45] winning two precincts and coming within 10% of two others on election day.

[3:35:52] I think that that's a message about where our community stands, the promise that went along

[3:35:59] with those hundreds nearly a thousand ballot access signatures was we're going to have a discussion

[3:36:06] of the community's issues and I think despite the primary being suppressed in that small

[3:36:17] somewhat representative sample we got a message about things that are valuable to our community.

[3:36:27] As we go forward with difficult decisions that we've made, if we continue to treat parts of our community as nobody and continue to suppress them, we're going to get decay in our community and that's going to hit our tax base because without a robust economy we're not going to get the cash flows that validate the decisions that we make in housing.

[3:36:59] If we make Harrisonburg a unwelcoming place to live and last time we heard

[3:37:07] eloquent words from Madam Mayor about people being able to live anywhere in the community,

[3:37:15] if that's not true of our community, if people are getting pushed and marginalized

[3:37:20] and feeling that they're suppressed everywhere they go, that's going to have a dampening effect

[3:37:26] On our economy, on our social fabric, it's going to hit our tax base.

[3:37:33] So anything else that we do is going to be nullified by that.

[3:37:37] If we have staff that treats people as riff-rath that treats people as if they are nobody,

[3:37:49] the treats people such that no matter what they say no matter what the evidence is, we're

[3:37:56] going to do to them whatever we want. That's going to send a message that's going to dishearten

[3:38:03] our city and all the other things that we try to do are going to end up delivering a downward

[3:38:11] spiral that will make Harrisonburg less attractive than the other cities that are in the pack,

[3:38:18] competing with us. Now, the city has taken positions like this, that they can do whatever they want,

[3:38:27] to anybody and we have no recourse. If we're in chapter 15, 22, 22,

[3:38:32] if we're a developer, we have recourse. We have a cause of action. Thanks to Scott Survelle,

[3:38:38] but if we're in 15, 2, 9, we have no recourse. The city can do anything they want.

[3:38:43] And that's a message that our recent election told us is heard by a large portion of our population,

[3:38:52] a third to our half of our democratic vote, and they don't like it.

[3:38:59] Maybe you can push them down.

[3:39:01] Maybe you can defeat them.

[3:39:02] Maybe you can by using these and elbows when, but your city's going to decay.

[3:39:09] Thank you, Madam Mayor.

[3:39:09] Thank you.

[3:39:10] Anyone else

[3:39:15] seeing an unimperson, Amy, do we have any colors?

[3:39:32] Very, there are no colors.

[3:39:34] Thank you.

[3:39:35] With those public comments.

[3:39:40] Councilwoman Denol, let you go first, because I know you had some things to talk about.

[3:39:44] Me, yes, I think.

[3:39:46] I have several things.

[3:39:49] I've requested to be on next council agenda, two of which have very firm deadlines.

[3:39:57] one that has a slightly softer deadline.

[3:40:00] The firm deadlines are, I'm recommending or advocating for the city to file as a participant in the hearings on the dominion next era merger.

[3:40:13] Now, we can file to be just a participant in order to listen to the proceedings without having to take a specific position.

[3:40:20] We've had discussions with HEC, director, Brian O'Dell.

[3:40:26] They have some very specific things that they're asking for, participation from municipal

[3:40:31] utilities.

[3:40:32] And we support that.

[3:40:33] And I'd like to also advance our clean energy goals that we've adopted.

[3:40:38] So the reason that's crucial for September 8th is that the deadline to file for that is

[3:40:44] September 11th.

[3:40:45] So I've talked with city manager in city attorney about this and talked with some of the advocates and especially Alexandria that's very experienced into this kind of work.

[3:40:57] So that's the first thing. The second thing that has a hard deadline is to

[3:41:04] Contest the repeal of the roadless rule that has a deadline of September 21st, and for instance,

[3:41:11] the friends of Shenandoah Mountain that is advocating for a scenic and wilderness areas recommending that we push back on that.

[3:41:19] So, again, those are two things I've talked about the Dominion merger, and now the roadless rule that I would like for us to consider and vote on submitting

[3:41:32] our file

[3:41:38] to participate in the Dominion merger, and is it a public comment on behalf of the

[3:41:44] city I believe for the roadless rule? I'm not sure exactly. Okay, and the other thing that

[3:41:49] actually is going on is we're having the presentation about the proposal for Council to submit

[3:41:59] a request to the Department of Rail and Public Transit to recommend that we get on the plan

[3:42:05] for passenger railed Harrisonburg.

[3:42:08] Now I've joined the steering committee for the Blue Ridge Rail group that's a local advocacy

[3:42:16] group saying we need rail here.

[3:42:19] Now the DRPT deadline is September 30th, so ideally if we agree and pass a letter September

[3:42:26] It's great, but we have a little flexibility with it also past the second meeting in November.

[3:42:34] So, I mean, just September.

[3:42:35] So, I'll send those things around as best I can, whatever.

[3:42:38] I've got the meeting with the rail people tomorrow, and I've got city attorney looking

[3:42:46] into the participation and so on.

[3:42:48] So, there will be more that we have to hammer out by that meeting, but those are the three

[3:42:52] things that are I'm just putting on the agenda, because we need to.

[3:42:56] Okay.

[3:42:57] That's it.

[3:42:58] And in other news, I had a meeting with Ben Klein today of all people.

[3:43:04] And I found that we were a lot more on the same page than I would have thought.

[3:43:08] For instance, what I was doing was proposing that he please support, I know it's not

[3:43:14] likely.

[3:43:15] The energy bills relief act, which is about lowering energy bills, expanding clean energy,

[3:43:22] And he said, well, it looks like it's bringing back the IRA inflation reduction act and said,

[3:43:27] well, yeah.

[3:43:30] But, and I said, if you can't go that far, it's a negotiation.

[3:43:34] Anyway, we had a good discussion.

[3:43:35] And for instance, the thing that he said surprisingly, he's in the appropriations committee,

[3:43:41] and he supported an amendment that didn't go through that I liked a lot.

[3:43:46] He said, there needs to be publicly available information on data centers, including those that

[3:43:54] have been proposed.

[3:43:55] I said, good.

[3:43:56] I don't like those NDAs.

[3:43:57] He said, I don't either.

[3:43:58] So yeah, we had something to agree on.

[3:44:01] So yeah, that's all very fruitful to keep the discussion going.

[3:44:06] And one final thing I'd like to mention, the sustainability success summit that EPSAC has

[3:44:14] created. It's happening Friday, September 18th, 830 to 1 at Sims. So again, I'll talk

[3:44:24] about that again next time, but that's a great local environmental summit with multiple

[3:44:31] stakeholders presenting and talking about the successes and what more we need to work on

[3:44:36] environment. That's all. Yes, the only thing I have is that they mail that I sent to you

[3:44:44] asking you to sign it. This unbranded partisan letter to be sent to that state department

[3:44:53] affirming our communities, our ready to play their parts and rebuildings.

[3:45:00] Of a future program that is fair, secure and economically beneficial and reflective of our nation's foundational freedoms.

[3:45:12] Thank you. Thank you all, guys. Thank you so much.

[3:45:16] You're welcome to sign. Thank you.

[3:45:19] First, I wanted to tell you all about a workshop that we are having.

[3:45:24] We've been to no valley black heritage project this coming up Saturday at the Nina Center.

[3:45:29] We've been working with researchers from William and Mary's Institute for Historical Biology.

[3:45:34] And we will be holding a discussion and workshop focused on resistance and self-immancipation by utilizing runaway ads from historic newspapers.

[3:45:44] We're going to learn about, um, enslaved people, their lives and ways, they've resisted against enslavement,

[3:45:48] statement but also how you use those running way adds in your genealogy research and so it's

[3:45:55] going to be this coming up Saturday from 11 to 1 and we're feeding you.

[3:46:01] Let's see also September 2nd through the 4th I will be participating in a CCJB community

[3:46:10] criminal justice board forum and Charlotte's bill and we'll be talking about how we can

[3:46:19] more how our CCJB boards can be improved and be more effective. So I'm really looking forward

[3:46:30] to working with different groups from all across the state. I know Abigail, I'm

[3:46:36] new, um, um, a scary say prosecuting attorney and that is not right. But with defender,

[3:46:50] I'm

[3:46:50] on how others across the state utilize how their boards set up if they have bylaws and so forth.

[3:46:59] And also, your abstract thing, Laura, that you're just talking about, actually I'm going

[3:47:03] to be one of the purers, we're going to do an workshop or just something on a panel, a panel

[3:47:10] that's in the hall.

[3:47:11] And that's it.

[3:47:12] It's a good, nice meeting.

[3:47:19] Adam meeting with our

[3:47:24] Southern City's Economic Initiative with the peerers back home development

[3:47:28] with NLC folks there and so we had our first round of applicants finish up their participation

[3:47:40] in that small business project and we had some additional consulting time left for all of

[3:47:44] which they got some free consulting time when we're starting up a new group of small businesses.

[3:47:51] In October I believe we'll be starting up in the way the applications are and in September I believe.

[3:47:59] So we'll have a new round of small businesses going through our training and planning process which ends up with the grant.

[3:48:08] And we'll say the folks who are at the line of Fed and I'll see, they're just always

[3:48:21] so complimentary of our economic development staff.

[3:48:27] They work with cities all over the South, there are 14 other cities, and they consistently

[3:48:34] I talk about how our staff delivers really the best and the most thorough work on this

[3:48:45] project.

[3:48:46] So, that's about it.

[3:48:54] I couldn't remember if we were at some rock town, the last week, it was after, yeah, so this

[3:49:04] would, the 13th, I think we had City Council in life.

[3:49:08] So we had the Ribbon Cutting, Center Money for Simpsies

[3:49:11] of it at Rocktown High School.

[3:49:16] Also, I'm not sure if I know Andy is now.

[3:49:22] Pastor that was here for Harrison Bird, Baptist Church.

[3:49:27] They do a prayer for us every Monday,

[3:49:32] And I actually went to the 17th and they actually come and they pray over our building.

[3:49:40] Did you know they walked around the building and they prayed at the place?

[3:49:44] So, but I went to the first Baptist.

[3:49:48] I mean, the church right down here.

[3:49:51] So, nice.

[3:49:52] It is actually beautiful.

[3:49:54] And most of some of them were here, actually, to that tonight.

[3:49:58] Well, on my days at 10 o'clock

[3:50:02] So I went, I'll probably go back, is a group of them that they pray for our city and they pray for us as leaders.

[3:50:11] I also spoke to 140 D-Mad students at JMU Duke's making a difference,

[3:50:23] and that was a great

[3:50:25] event.

[3:50:26] There always is.

[3:50:28] We had a presidential address at JMU where we heard from all the presidents, so we heard

[3:50:35] from President Schmidt, President Dijk as President Bushman,

[3:50:39] Bridgewater, and President Downey, as well.

[3:50:44] And then this morning, a seminar, I was speaking

[3:50:47] at the rotary.

[3:50:49] So I've been up to me, I've been up to Mimpo.

[3:50:53] But as that's the rotary, this morning, speaking to them as well.

[3:51:00] Yeah, so I'm like, Monica, I'm going to try

[3:51:05] to get to your event, but it's also 29, is EMU moving and I have to speak there. And here's

[3:51:15] the block party. Here excuse. It'll be this. It's the block party as well.

[3:51:21] There'll be the block party. Yeah. So it's a couple of things going on Saturday.

[3:51:28] Okay, that's all I got, did you manage her?

[3:51:31] No, man.

[3:51:35] Okay, she's back here typing.

[3:51:37] Thank you.

[3:51:38] Have a good evening.

[3:51:39] Go to be it.

[3:51:40] Meeting adjourns.

City Council on 2026-08-25 7:00 PM

Agenda

Transcript