[16:14] City Council September.

[16:19] » Oh, I'm sorry, >> Mr. Burus.

[16:22] » Yes, thank you. We have Pastor Bart Hodgegson with us from Covenant Baptist

[16:24] Church.

[16:30] just to say thank you is an honor to time to time. So thank you for asking.

[16:36] Let's pray together. Father, thank you gathering that uh

[16:43] getting to participate in serve. Pray for all of our elected officials

[16:50] tonight. Lord, we as always pray.

[16:56] Lord, that the decisions that come before them, you would

[17:01] you would help them to good decisions that uh that we as as

[17:09] we come expect uh speak.

[17:17] Lord, I pray for uh patience, Lord, and that you'd give us the ability well the

[17:23] other person. Keep us from selfishness and greed.

[17:28] Lord,

[17:32] pray the decisions that would be made tonight would for the good of the

[17:36] community. As always, Lord, we lift up uh public

[17:40] servants. Lord, just pray for our public's works people who they're

[17:44] working in you protect them, for our emergency

[17:49] responders, Lord, as as they're going out uh over them with their families,

[17:55] Father, all city employees, you would give them success in their

[18:00] jobs, integrity,

[18:05] and yeah, the great job for our I pray for law enforcement, Lord, and our

[18:11] firefighters as they particularly put themselves in kind of danger.

[18:18] They they worry about their their husbands and

[18:22] family members who are out. Father, we pray for our community. Pray

[18:27] for every member of Tony Town, Lord, that you would make us good neighbors to

[18:31] one another. That you'd make us honest, humble, that we would have courage and

[18:37] and show compassion to each other. So father I just pray lord that uh

[18:42] tonight that you would guide this meeting every decision would be made

[18:45] lord uh with wisdom and you would help us in that we pray all that in the

[18:50] Jesus. Amen. >> Thank you.

[18:52] » Thank you sir.

[18:56] Please stand for the pledge.

[19:17] Miss Jennison is filling in for Miss Artmani again tonight.

[19:23] Call, please. Craig.

[19:26] Nick >> here.

[19:27] » Danny >> here.

[19:29] » Here

[19:45] » that was um [clears throat] Mike and

[19:50] call. Yes.

[19:54] » Yes. >> Larry.

[19:56] » Yes. >> Yes.

[20:02] » Approval that we approve the agenda.

[20:13] » Oh, Mike. Okay. I'm sorry. Uh, Miss Jennison had asked me earlier to help

[20:18] kind of keep up with uh the speaking because it's hard to hear when you're

[20:22] all the way down there. So, that's why I'm trying to

[20:25] » That's why I'm trying to make sure that she knows. Um,

[20:30] roll call.

[20:33] » Yes.

[20:36] » Yes. >> Yes.

[20:42] » City council members, the three rule for

[20:47] I move to dispense with the three reading requirement for all organiz

[21:02] call. >> Yes.

[21:05] » Nick, >> yes.

[21:06] » Danny, >> yes.

[21:07] » Larry, >> yes.

[21:08] » Mike, >> yes.

[21:10] » Yes. [clears throat] >> Move on to old business.

[21:15] A a discussion of proposed ordinance to establish the direct.

[21:21] » Mayor, if I may, uh I'd like to make a motion that suspend

[21:29] A through G

[21:34] correction of the

[21:38] last meeting. With that, I would

[21:44] Seconded motion.

[21:53] » Yes. >> Nick.

[21:55] » Danny. >> Yes.

[21:57] » Yes. >> Mike.

[21:58] » Yes. >> Yes.

[22:08] » Yeah. Why don't I read them? >> Okay. Thank you.

[22:10] » And then you call for the vote on each, please. All right. [clears throat]

[22:14] » Hey, a discussion. I'm sorry. Do I need to read the full

[22:17] title? >> Yes, sir.

[22:20] » Yes. >> Titles available start to be in your

[22:24] pack. I'm sorry.

[22:32] » Yeah, my screen doesn't work. Okay. A an ordinance establishing the Department of

[22:36] Human Resources creating the position of director of human resources as a

[22:40] municipal department head. establishing, appointing, reporting, qualification,

[22:44] authority, and responsibility requirements, declaring an emergency,

[22:48] and for other purposes. And with this council, it sounds like you have an

[22:52] emergency clause. So, so you'll need to take a separate vote.

[22:56] » I don't know how much the verbiage there matters, but instead of appointment, you

[23:01] said appointing, which may not matter at all, but

[23:04] » thank you for the correction.

[23:10] Do we need a motion on this? >> Yes.

[23:14] » Yes. You need a motion to approve a second motion.

[23:18] » Danny, >> second that motion.

[23:20] » And Tim,

[23:25] » yes. >> Mick,

[23:26] » yes. >> Danny,

[23:27] » yes. >> Larry,

[23:28] » yes. >> Mike,

[23:29] » yes. >> Tim,

[23:30] » yes. >> Now, the emergency clause. I'll make a

[23:34] motion we accept the emergency clause. Second.

[23:37] That was Danny.

[23:42] » Tim, >> yes.

[23:44] » Mike, >> yes.

[23:45] » Danny, >> yes.

[23:46] » Nick, >> yes.

[23:48] » Craig, >> yes.

[23:50] » Okay, we'll move on to B. >> Okay, this is B. An ordinance

[23:55] establishing the position of director of parks, museum, and grants for the city

[23:59] of Tinytown, Arkansas. Designating the position as a department head position

[24:04] reporting directly to the mayor. defining the director's authority and

[24:07] responsibilities for municipal parks, the city museum, and citywide grant

[24:12] coordination. Clarifying that the position shall not exercise the powers

[24:15] of a city manager, city administrator, or chief administrative officer,

[24:19] reconciling references to the community development director, adopting a job

[24:24] description, declaring an emergency, and for other purposes. Again, council, you

[24:28] have a emergency clause to vote on separately.

[24:32] » Make a motion. I make a motion to accept or item B.

[24:40] Second >> roll call.

[24:44] » Danny, >> yes.

[24:46] » Nick, >> yes.

[24:47] » Craig, >> yes.

[24:50] » Larry, >> yes.

[24:52] » Mike, >> yes.

[24:53] » And Tim, >> yes.

[24:57] » Seeking for emergency.

[25:02] Motion for emergency clause. >> I make a motion to accept the emergency

[25:06] clause. >> I will second that motion.

[25:09] » Tim roll call.

[25:12] » Roll call, please. >> Craig,

[25:14] » excuse me. >> Yes.

[25:14] » Mick, >> yes.

[25:16] » Danny, >> yes.

[25:17] » Larry, >> yes.

[25:18] » Mike, >> yes.

[25:19] » And Tim, >> yes.

[25:21] » Okay, we'll move on to C. Attorney Ferrar. This is an ordinance

[25:25] establishing the public works department and the position of public works

[25:28] director for the city of Tonytown, Arkansas. Defining the department's

[25:32] general responsibilities, establishing the administrative reporting structure,

[25:37] repealing conflicting provisions, declaring an emergency and for other

[25:40] purposes. Again, I note an emergency clause.

[25:44] » Let's take a motion. >> I move that we um vote to approve.

[25:53] Second >> roll call.

[25:57] » Mike, >> yes.

[25:59] » Tim, >> yes.

[26:00] » Larry, >> yes.

[26:01] » Craig, >> yes.

[26:03] » Danny, >> yes.

[26:04] » And Mick, >> yes.

[26:08] » Seek a motion for the emergency clause. >> I'll make a motion for the emergency

[26:12] clause. I'll move that we approve the emergency clause.

[26:18] » Second. >> Roll call.

[26:22] Craig, >> yes.

[26:24] » Tim, >> yes.

[26:26] » Mike, >> yes.

[26:27] » Mick, >> yes.

[26:29] » Danny, >> yes.

[26:30] » Larry, >> yes. [clears throat]

[26:33] » All right, moving on to E. Attorney Ferrar.

[26:36] » Okay. We have an ordinance repealing and replacing Tiny Town Municipal Code

[26:40] section 3102 concerning the governance and administration of Tonnytown

[26:44] Historical Museum, establishing the museum as an operating unit of the city,

[26:48] defining the authority of the museum board of trustees, clarifying the

[26:51] employment status and supervision of museum personnel, repealing conflicting

[26:55] provisions, declaring an emergency and for other purposes. Once again, council,

[27:00] you have an emergency clause. Okay, seeking a motion.

[27:05] I'll make motion to approve. >> Second.

[27:10] » Roll call. >> Craig,

[27:13] » yes. >> Jim,

[27:15] » yes. >> Mick,

[27:16] » yes. >> Mike,

[27:19] » yes. >> Danny,

[27:20] » yes. >> Larry,

[27:22] » yes. >> I move that we approve the emergency

[27:26] clause for this ordinance. >> Second.

[27:30] » Roll call. >> Craig. Yes,

[27:34] » Mick. >> Yes,

[27:35] » Danny. >> Yes,

[27:36] » Larry. >> Yes,

[27:38] » Mike. >> Yes.

[27:40] » And Tim, >> yes.

[27:41] » Okay, moving on. Um, attorney Ferrar, would you mind?

[27:47] [snorts] >> Okay. We have an ordinance establishing

[27:49] the position of water and sewer director within the city government, adopting a

[27:53] job description for the position, which is attached as exhibit A, and for other

[27:57] purposes. Here we do not have an emergency clause to vote on. I I think

[28:02] so. I think we should skip. >> I think we skipped one. Attorney,

[28:06] » we did. Yes, sir. >> The accounting.

[28:09] » We should have been an E. >> I apologize for that. We I did skip one.

[28:18] Have it in my packet. >> Might have to borrow. Oh, no. Here it

[28:22] does. I apologize. an ordinance establishing the classified position of

[28:26] accounting clerk within the office of the city clerk treasurer adopting a job

[28:29] description for the position attached as exhibit A and for other purposes. Uh as

[28:33] I said before, no emergency clause on this.

[28:36] » I move that we vote to approve this motion.

[28:38] » Second. >> Roll call. That was Danny that seconded.

[28:42] » Thank you. Tim, >> yes.

[28:44] » Mike, >> yes.

[28:46] » Larry, >> yes.

[28:47] » Danny, >> yes.

[28:49] » Mick, >> yes.

[28:50] » And Craig, >> yes.

[28:53] Okay, now we'll move on to F. >> Okay, now we have an ordinance

[28:57] establishing the position of water and sewer director within city government,

[29:00] adopting a job description for the position attached as exhibit A and for

[29:04] other purposes.

[29:07] » Seeking a motion. >> Make a motion to approve.

[29:12] I will second that motion. >> Mick and Tim.

[29:18] » Roll call. >> Craig.

[29:21] » Yes. Nick, >> yes.

[29:22] » Danny, >> yes.

[29:24] » Larry, >> yes.

[29:25] » Mike, >> yes.

[29:26] » And Tim, >> yes.

[29:30] » We have an emer seeking for an emergency clause.

[29:33] » There is no emergency. >> There's no I apologize. Okay, moving on.

[29:37] Do you attorney? >> Okay, we're off the ordinances. I'm

[29:41] happy to read. This is a discussion of an approval of a proposed resolution uh

[29:46] for the removal of trees along South Bington Road.

[29:51] Mayor, if I may. >> Yes, sir.

[29:54] » Um, the council was uh provided at the last meeting there was uh three bids

[30:01] received and yet uh the scope of services there was some question about

[30:05] if everybody was bidding on the same stuff. City engineer prepared a scope of

[30:11] services and those same three people were submitted to that and they each

[30:16] returned the bids. I would note all of them lower. And the low bid, which is in

[30:23] your packet, was provided by Pragrow Tree Service for $16,560.

[30:31] The second lowest bid was Monster Tree Service 19,100 and the highest was

[30:37] Treeandscape for $20,850. I would make a motion that we accept the

[30:43] low bid from Prairie Grove Tree Service. Do I have a second?

[30:49] » I'll second that motion. >> Roll call.

[30:55] » Mike, >> yes.

[30:57] » Tim, >> yes.

[30:58] » Larry, >> yes.

[31:00] » Craig, >> yes.

[31:01] » Danny, >> yes.

[31:03] » Mick, >> yes.

[31:06] » Okay, moving on to public comments. If you would [clears throat] like to speak,

[31:10] please come to the podium, state your name and address, and you have three

[31:15] minutes.

[31:28] Hey guys. Um, Heather Armstrong, 3851, Old Highway 68, 20town, Arkansas. I just

[31:34] wanted to reintroduce myself and tell you guys how we're glad that we've got

[31:38] y'all's support letter and everything. 21 weeks ago. Um, we have had a few

[31:43] people reach out to us in the community and we were just want to see what we

[31:46] might be able to help y'all with in the future, seeing as we've been helping

[31:50] y'all for the last four years. And just kind of want to invite y'all out, let

[31:55] you guys see the place, see what we've been doing. Let you know that all of our

[31:58] city officials, officers, firemen, police officers, everybody's coming out

[32:03] tomorrow for a big shindig. if anybody'd like to come out and see what we have

[32:06] done for the city of Tony Town. Um, wanted to address and see if there's any

[32:11] way possible we could actually get some support on some things that we've been

[32:16] asking for. We would love to have you guys out. I know Miss Russell's been out

[32:20] to the house and I know Mr. Mike's been out to the house, but we'd definitely

[32:23] like to have you guys out. Um, let you guys kind of see what we're

[32:28] doing >> tomorrow. Could you tell us the times?

[32:31] » Um, yes. will be operating a fundraiser between 10:00 and 1:00 p.m.

[32:35] » 10 and 1. Thank you. Thank you guys. >> Mayor, excuse me. Uh but you said this

[32:42] was for items on the agenda. Is there agenda item for this subject?

[32:49] What is this for for agenda items?

[32:56] » No. So there that was not one of the items. I think that she just wanted to

[33:00] get up and >> Okay. didn't see that. Uh, Maddie, is

[33:02] there anyone online? No. All right, moving on.

[33:08] » New business. A presentation by Sarah Living Good.

[33:16] » If I may, mayor, I I invited Miss Living Good uh and put this uh on the um agenda

[33:24] for discussion. I felt it would be better hearing from a live person. and I

[33:29] presented a position paper to the council um a few weeks back and uh Mr.

[33:36] Lab good here I'm sure is going to be better in person than my written paper.

[33:42] Thank you sir. >> Thank you guys for having me. One

[33:45] second.

[34:08] So, I'm Sarah Lifing Good. I'm the executive director for the Fagetville

[34:12] area of Arkansas Community Foundation. Um, I would say Fagetville area is a

[34:17] little bit of a misnomer, so I don't want that to be misleading. We serve all

[34:21] of Washington County along with a bit of Madison County and Benton County as

[34:26] well. and Arkansas Community Foundation has been serving the state of Arkansas

[34:30] to build a better communities across the state for 50 years. So I'm going to

[34:34] start the presentation just sharing a little bit about who the foundation is

[34:39] and then share the types of funds that we have because I know the discussion

[34:44] has been around the historic museum here in Tonitown just so that I can give you

[34:49] guys opportunity to see what options that we do have and how we have

[34:54] supported other organizations in the Washington County area as they've gone

[34:58] to grow either their museum or their parks and rec um departments as well.

[35:07] So a community foundation, we are a taxexempt charitable organization and it

[35:13] provides support primarily for the geographic community or region. Because

[35:17] we are a statewide organization, we have affiliates throughout the state with a

[35:24] local board that represents us. So that it is concentrated on that unique

[35:28] geographic area. We act as a grant making foundation and

[35:34] as I mentioned we serve geographically um the community. We have a very broad

[35:40] mission. We're supported by private and public donors and we're governed by

[35:45] those local boards. Right now the Arkansas Community

[35:50] Foundation has 29 affiliates throughout the state. Fateville area being the one

[35:55] of the largest ones. We have over 2,000 charitable funds totaling more than a

[36:00] billion dollars. and we've been making grants since 1976 in the range of $600

[36:06] million.

[36:11] We do have three different types of funds. So, we have a charitable

[36:16] distribution fund that's in the purple and that starts at $1,000. And I'm going

[36:22] to give you guys some examples of how orgs have used the different types of

[36:26] funds as I move forward in slides. That charitable distribution, it's not

[36:30] invested. That means it's also not endowed. You have access to the entire

[36:35] corpus. And the fees are a bit higher on that one with 2% per gift. And any

[36:41] donors into that fund do have the opportunity to pay for any sort of um

[36:46] credit card fees that if they decide to make donations through our online

[36:50] system. We have a quasi endowment that's in the blue. It is $100,000 minimum.

[36:56] It's fully invested. And what's unique about that account is you do have access

[37:00] to the entire account. It has an annual fee of 1.25%.

[37:06] And then the green is a fully endowed fund. It has a $10,000 minimum and it's

[37:13] fully invested and endowed and it has a spendable of 4% after it's invested for

[37:19] 20 quarters. So, a couple examples of how some

[37:24] Washington County organizations have used our funs. We've got the Shiloh

[37:28] Museum in Springdale. They have the green. They have an endowment and they

[37:35] use that spendable. And I'm just going to back up so you can see it.

[37:40] So, Shiloh Museum has an endowment and they use that 4% spendable to go towards

[37:46] organizational costs. They are set up as um a city entity and so when they ask

[37:52] for their funds, those funds get directed to the city and they are

[37:56] itemized as to exactly what those funds are to be used for and then they are

[38:01] spently

[38:06] in Fagatville. We've got the Von Richardson Community Center. They also

[38:10] have an endowment. are also a c a city entity and similarly they have that

[38:17] endowment that gets directed through the city to fund programming at the

[38:21] community center. What's unique about them is that they do have their own

[38:25] nonprofit arm that directs those funds, which is in contrast to the the Shiloh

[38:32] Museum. And the Von Richardson Community Center is who their nonprofit arm, the

[38:38] Friends of YCCC is who chose to take what were extra funds that they had at

[38:44] the time and invest them into an endowment for the long-term usage and

[38:49] support of Ivon Richardson Community center programming.

[38:56] And then one of my my last example is Mount Sequoia. Mount Sequoia has two

[39:01] different types of funds. They have that quasi endowment and they have an

[39:06] endowment. So the quasi endowment allows them to have their their corpus

[39:13] of funds invested. So they are growing year after year, but they have access to

[39:19] the entire corpus. So if they need some sort of building maintenance or they

[39:23] need something towards other operational funds, they can pull from the entire

[39:27] corpus of that quasi endowment, but they also have a full endowment so that that

[39:35] is fully endowed and they can only pull from that 4% for long-term stability.

[39:43] And that's just a quick a quick overview. Um if you guys have any

[39:47] questions, >> I do.

[39:50] in regards to the uh charitable donor fund pass through

[39:56] which I think the Favville friends of Favville parks is 2% fee that you

[40:02] mentioned is that a one-time fee when someone makes a

[40:08] or is that a recurring monthly annual fee or is it just a one time 2% let's

[40:13] say I wanted to give you $100 is $2 a one time fee or is it the balance of the

[40:19] signed at 2%. How does that work

[40:23] » for the charitable distribution? Every time a donation is made to that

[40:31] um that fund, there's a 2% fee on that gift. We've

[40:37] seen a lot of organizations that don't come in with a large amount of funds

[40:42] start with either a char with a charitable distribution and then change

[40:47] it over to a quasi endowment or an endowment in time so that it is only an

[40:52] annual fee as opposed to a 2% per gift. >> Okay. But my question is a little bit

[40:59] different. I think I understand it's a one-time deal, but there's no monthly or

[41:03] annual after the initial 2% is paid. Is that correct?

[41:09] On a fund. If I give you $100, it's $2 on the outset. That's all the

[41:16] fees that's ever charged on that particular donation.

[41:20] » Correct. >> So, there's no maintenance fee

[41:22] throughout [clears throat] what I was trying to get to

[41:25] » with the charitable distribution. Yes, >> exactly. That was my Thank you.

[41:30] » Uh

[41:34] from a an accounting standpoint, I understand it correctly. Um you would

[41:43] issue 1098s at the end of each year to person that makes a donation.

[41:49] City ultimately has no obligations or or responsibilities from a county

[41:55] standpoint. You handle all of that. Correct.

[41:59] » Okay. So, let's take it one step further. Let's say this account grows

[42:04] and you've got $50,000 in it and that be determined that they want to do

[42:12] something, build a statute of Christopher Columbus or whatever and

[42:16] they need 50 of that $100,000. Um,

[42:21] walk me through the mechanics of how that 50 is returned. you pay statute

[42:27] builder or how does that work? >> So, we do not directly pay vendors

[42:32] because we're a charitable making a grant making organization.

[42:37] The request would come in for the $50,000 that then gets directed either

[42:43] through the nonprofit or the city entity. So, for example, with the von

[42:49] Richardson Community Center, when they request a

[42:54] they request a grant distribution, it goes to the city of Fagatville earmarked

[43:00] for the community center. So, similarly, you would make the request earmarked for

[43:06] the Christopher Columbus statue as per the example and then it can go through

[43:11] the city or the nonprofit organization depending on who's making the request.

[43:15] So there's a full audit trail when the auditors come to town. It there's no

[43:19] question that the city itself in that case is not making a charitable

[43:24] donation. City's dismanaging it to to push it back through to this case the

[43:30] museum or parks or whichever fund that might be.

[43:34] » Correct. Just as if um someone made the $50,000

[43:39] donation to the fund for the the statue. It's tracked from the donation coming in

[43:46] and that memo to it going out with that memo. So, you've got multiple stages of

[43:52] tracking exactly how those funds are supposed to be used.

[43:55] » Another question, um, is the city limited to one fund? We have a museum,

[44:02] which is front and center of this discussion that we first started talking

[44:08] about it, but there may be a parks and wreck that that needs to have

[44:12] the ability if somebody wants to donate something to the parks. Does this is the

[44:17] city limited to one fund or can they have multiple uh in this case charable

[44:23] distribution funds? >> You can have multiple.

[44:25] » Okay. I think that's all my question. Sure to

[44:29] these other guys. I'm sure has got some nothing at all, Mr. Wagner. I'm good.

[44:34] Madame Mayor, may I >> Yes.

[44:36] » He can read my mind. Uh okay. You said that on the endowment that after you

[44:41] sort of slipped it in after 20 quarters, which you know in layman's terms that's

[44:46] five years. Yep. >> Uh that we can't touch that. Um and then

[44:49] once we can touch it, there's access to 4% of spendable. What is that? What is

[44:54] that spendable number? Where does that come from?

[44:57] » And uh and explain to me why it's 4%. >> So we have a state board that manages

[45:04] the whole organization and they are a fiduciary board. They are the ones that

[45:08] set the spendable rate. Several years ago, it was a 5% access to the

[45:13] spendable. And because our board and the company that we use for investments,

[45:20] look at investing for ever in like in perpetuity as

[45:25] opposed to investing for retirement. when the market dipped um about 10 years

[45:31] 10 years ago um they decided to drop it down to 4% to make sure our endowments

[45:37] were going to last. >> Okay. That that that tells me why. Uh it

[45:43] doesn't tell me what. So if we have a million dollars in the endowment fund,

[45:48] are you telling me that only 4% of that is spendable?

[45:51] » Correct. The rest of it is invested and growing.

[45:54] » Okay. So when it says access to 4% spendable, perhaps a better verbiage is

[46:00] access to 4% is spendable or the spendable amount is only 4% whatever.

[46:05] But that means for every million we can only spend $40,000.

[46:09] Uh and is that per year? Is that per calendar year? Is that

[46:12] » it is per year. >> Okay. And that is per calendar year.

[46:15] » Our fiscal year runs from July 1st to July 1st to June 30th. So that's so that

[46:24] is a a fiscal year. Yes. >> Um and so if we took money out on June

[46:28] 30th, we could take it out again on July 1st.

[46:30] » Correct. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Um

[46:34] and then what are these funds fully invested in? You said that they're one

[46:39] is uh uh fully invested, one is quasi invested. What are they invested in?

[46:46] they're invested in a very large portfolio and it it ch it's different

[46:52] depending on the fund. Um that is something that I can get

[46:56] » depending on the fund you mean >> because it's

[47:00] we have different funds for different people and for different organizations

[47:04] and so with all of those investments our advisory organization invests across

[47:11] board. That is not my I say that's not my territory.

[47:14] » That's just fine. I appreciate that. Uh, but who has input? Do do we as a city or

[47:19] does does the the Tonny Town Museum have any input in in that or

[47:24] » we are different from say like a Schwab where you would be able to determine

[47:29] where your investments are. We have the the same organization that works with

[47:34] Crystal Bridges on their investments. That's who we we work with as to they

[47:38] make determinations of our investments and the state board approves that.

[47:42] » I appreciate that. It's not exactly the question I'm asking. So, let me try

[47:44] again. Um, when you you said there are different investments or different funds

[47:51] for different companies, but then your answer made it sound like there's one

[47:56] idea and all people get the same thing. So, my question is, is there any

[48:02] variation between what Mount Sequoia has and what the Tony Museum would have for

[48:07] instance, >> potentially depending on the market?

[48:12] » Okay. And then what deres that difference? Is it the amount of money

[48:15] that's there? >> It depend it would depend on what the

[48:20] different funds are invested in. >> Okay. So again, who who makes that

[48:24] decision and why and and if we have no input, we just say like, hey, you guys

[48:28] are smarter than us. You go figure that out. I understand that. Um and and

[48:34] that's why we're paying the one and a quarter% on the one and 1% on the other.

[48:38] But those can change based on what they deem is most appropriate for for

[48:43] whatever it happens to be in >> what the advisers are advisers

[48:46] determine. Yes. >> Okay. So there's fiduciary

[48:49] responsibility and and they have to do what's in the best interest um in that

[48:53] regard. Okay. And then um the fees of uh one and a quarter% 1% those aren't those

[49:00] aren't necessarily high low or sideways. But is there a is there a tiered

[49:07] breakdown where the more money that's there the less that costs?

[49:10] » There is once you get into the the million dollar range we have a different

[49:15] breakdown. >> Okay. Would you mind sharing that with

[49:16] me? >> I I don't have that with me.

[49:18] » Okay. But you can get me that. >> Absolutely.

[49:20] » Wonderful. Thank you. Let me look over my notes again.

[49:25] Okay. So again, if we did an endowment fund, we say we start with a million

[49:30] dollars in the endowment fund. We can't even touch that 40,000 for five years.

[49:37] Yes, you. So I'll use the Fagatville operating endowment as an example. We

[49:44] can touch a small percentage each year, but the full 4% is not available until

[49:51] you hit the 5year mark. >> Okay? So we can do something under four

[49:55] and we're not entirely certain what it is yet but you can get me that too.

[49:57] » Y >> wonderful thank you. And um

[50:04] and then on the quai endowed if there was again say a million dollars

[50:09] there um would we have access to a million dollars on day one?

[50:16] » That's a great question. The caveat would be you can't go below $50,000 for

[50:22] three years. Okay. So, again, if it had a million

[50:25] dollars um and we took out $950,000 of it, you don't have a problem with that.

[50:30] » Correct. >> Um and you might not even have a problem

[50:33] if we take out a little more. But after the three years go by where it's under

[50:36] that, that's when you start to have an issue.

[50:40] » You can't go below the 50,000 until after the three years.

[50:46] » Okay. Okay. Okay. Um wonderful. I very much appreciate your presentation. you

[50:52] did a great job. Uh, but is is there a way to get the the nuts and bolts, the

[50:56] the fine print? >> Absolutely. Um, I didn't want to bring

[51:00] all of our investments and I can also put you in contact with our CFO who

[51:05] works with our um, our advisory group if that would be helpful to kind of break

[51:10] down >> what our investments have looked like

[51:13] and return. >> Extraordinarily helpful for me.

[51:14] » Can definitely do that. >> Thank you.

[51:16] » Absolutely. Okay. Does anyone else have Mr. W KOak.

[51:19] » Mayor got one more question if nobody else is.

[51:21] » Mr. Wish Kak has got a question. >> Okay, great. Um, I'm going to maybe try

[51:27] to help Mr. Burus, maybe myself too, with this question. Maybe what he's

[51:31] asking if I'm an investor and I go to Schwab, they're going to give me

[51:34] different growth strategies to look at. Is that the kind of angle you're looking

[51:39] for, or are you looking at more of a like on a moral basis? I don't want to

[51:43] invest in particular funds. >> No, more more the first, but it doesn't

[51:46] necessarily matter. I think that she's answered that uh we don't really have

[51:50] much to say about that. We're saying you guys do it and you do what you think is

[51:55] best and that's the best we we can get from that.

[51:57] » But can we pick do do we get to pick like a we want more uh safer with our

[52:04] money or is it we give you the money and you make the decisions on what to do

[52:08] with it? >> Correct.

[52:09] » It's not I get to pick aggressive growth strategy or I want to go all bond funds.

[52:14] » Correct. >> Okay, that's fair enough. Thank you.

[52:17] » Okay, Mr. Wagner, >> one one more question. U I assume it's

[52:21] possible that as you start out, let's just say right now, I don't know how

[52:26] much money that everybody's going to rush to the altar and start handing in

[52:30] uh money to whatever funds we create, but uh the simplest way looks like to

[52:36] start out as the charitable distribution model. Uh but at any point in time or I

[52:42] guess at least on an annual basis you could upgrade to one of the quasi

[52:47] endowed or endowed uh as we get more experience with it. It's it's possible

[52:53] to switch from one type of of fund to the to the next.

[52:58] » Correct. But you can only go depends on how you're looking at the

[53:02] screen. You can only go to the right. You can't go

[53:06] » back to the left because you're going more permanent once you head towards the

[53:11] endowment. >> Yeah, that that's what I was meaning.

[53:14] But right now, for an example, the the Favville uh park is using the that and I

[53:21] think their strategy is that they want to have the money that they get to for

[53:26] whatever it needs as quickly as they can even though it's got a little higher fee

[53:30] structure. Um, I would note though the 2% is a one-time deal is is what you

[53:36] just explained. The other two are annual fees.

[53:41] » Yes, they're annual fees, but just to just to reiterate, it's per gift. So, if

[53:46] each one of you donated $100, it's a 2% fee on on everybody.

[53:52] » Understand that. But but in your examples here in the charts, it's got

[53:57] fee 1.25% annual. So if you had $100,000

[54:02] in the fee, that's 1.25%. Then next year if it grows to 200, it's 200 times 1.25.

[54:08] So that's an escalator clause. Wherever the the charitable donation, a one time

[54:13] hit on each donation. >> Correct. The the caveat is you are your

[54:18] fund is growing hopefully more than than is being um donated into it because of

[54:25] how it's invested. >> Thank you. That's all my question

[54:30] » and madam madam mayor I would love to take ask another question or two. Um so

[54:35] on the charitable distribution just just as a reminder to everybody up here that

[54:39] is static all that's just a bank account. There's not there's we're not

[54:43] gaining anything. We're not losing anything. We pay 2% to walk in the door

[54:46] and that's that. um on the quasa endowed and on the endowment I know that that

[54:53] you don't necessarily want to say this but somewhere along the line as a point

[54:58] of public record uh we can see what those rates of return are and what sort

[55:03] of rates of return are we looking at under a quasa endowed and endowed fund

[55:10] » it it has ranged anywhere from four to 7% depending on the market and I I would

[55:16] be happy to share all that documentation.

[55:18] » Thank you. Appreciate it. >> That is all. Thanks.

[55:21] » Anyone else?

[55:25] » Thank you very much, ma'am. I appreciate it. Thank you.

[55:27] » Thank you, chair. >> Moving on to B. A discussion of proposed

[55:32] resolution allowing the mayor to solicit RFQS for professional grant

[55:35] administrative administration services. Miss

[55:40] » uh yes, I uh sponsored this for Mr. Laam. Uh this is brought forward um to

[55:46] go for RFQS um for our grant program. Um I'm just looking for approval on this.

[55:53] I'll uh go ahead and give it a motion um so we can begin discussion.

[55:58] » Okay. Do I have a second? >> I'll second.

[56:02] » Danny and Mike

[56:06] just look at me whenever you [laughter]

[56:09] Okay. Um, all right. Roll call. Craig,

[56:16] » yes. >> Mick,

[56:18] » yes. >> Danny,

[56:19] » yes. >> Larry,

[56:20] » yes. >> Mike,

[56:21] » yes. >> And Tim, [snorts]

[56:23] » yes. >> Okay, we'll start our discussion then.

[56:26] We'll start with Mr. Wishko. Do you have any questions?

[56:29] » I have no questions. >> Mr. Burus?

[56:33] » Um, no ma'am. Thank you,

[56:38] » Mr. Ardammani.

[56:42] » No questions. >> Montes.

[56:45] » No, ma'am. I think it's pretty laid out. >> Mr. Graves,

[56:48] » no questions. >> Mr. Wagner,

[56:50] » none. >> Okay. Roll call.

[56:53] » Craig, >> yes.

[56:55] » Mick, >> yes.

[56:57] » Danny, >> yes.

[56:58] » Larry, >> yes.

[57:00] » Mike, >> yes.

[57:01] » And Tim, >> yes.

[57:02] » Okay, moving on to C. a discussion and approval of a proposed resolution

[57:06] allowing the mayor to enter a contract with Harrington Miller regarding

[57:10] condemnation of Grow for Fletcher. Mr. W Kak.

[57:15] » Uh yes, thank you, mayor. Um these next two items go hand in hand. Um as if if

[57:23] you've looked through your packet at all, you understand that. Um I intend to

[57:28] provide a brief discussion on um why we're at this point. um based on um

[57:36] information I've ganed from discussions with several people um and

[57:42] uh the study of the appraisal report. The city obtained an appraisal by Reed

[57:49] and Associates in April of 26 uh on the value of the rightway acquisitions,

[57:55] permanent utility easements, and temporary construction easements for the

[57:59] city's portion of the Fletcher Road extension at the west half of Fletcher

[58:04] Road. The appraised value for the whole

[58:08] property according to Reeden Associates um um [clears throat]

[58:13] was valued at the land is owned by A&J Real Estate Holdings by the way. The the

[58:20] appraised value by Reed Associates was put the uh whole property value at

[58:25] $2,62,400.

[58:28] The land was purchased according to Data Scout by the owners for $1.8 million.

[58:35] the remainder property, that is the land that is left uh in the owner's

[58:41] possession after the city acquires what it needs for the for its rightway uh

[58:47] permanent utility easements and uh temporary construction easements. The

[58:53] would be $1,853,800.

[58:57] So even the the value after the uh damage to the property that was

[59:01] determined by Reeden Associates is a little bit more than what the u the

[59:06] purchase price was. Uh the damage to market value calculated uh for the

[59:11] rightway, the utility easements and the temporary construction easements uh

[59:15] according to the appraisal report from Reeden Associates was $221,300.

[59:23] [snorts] U a couple months ago, city council uh received the appraisal report

[59:28] and also a resolution to u uh authorized the mayor to negotiate this purchase uh

[59:35] based on the appraisal and the city offered the um the damage to market

[59:42] value calculation to the land owner which was refused. landowner rejected

[59:47] the offer but uh has not formally countered with a written offer on what

[59:54] they would accept for the property. Uh nor do they have a formal appraisal to

[59:58] justify their valuation of the land which I've had discussions with the land

[1:00:02] owner uh and they value the land somewhere between $600 and $700,000.

[1:00:11] Um the uh you know I spoke with the land owner indicated to him clearly I I have

[1:00:17] no power to negotiate on behalf of the city uh and I wasn't attempting to do

[1:00:22] so. So I just merely wanted to find out his position on how this got to this

[1:00:27] particular point. and u you know he u went back to um the purchase price of

[1:00:35] the acre of land on the eastern portion of Fletcher and uh the remainder of the

[1:00:43] land that they got from that purchase was about a half an acre and they paid

[1:00:49] approximately 157 for the land. So his valuation for what he thinks the uh uh

[1:00:57] acquisition that the city needs to pay for is

[1:01:01] 150 a half acre. So we're talking about a total of a little over two acres in

[1:01:07] the um the acquisition rightway easements and

[1:01:13] uh construction easements. So we're we're a little bit off on numbers

[1:01:17] obviously. um they have um no intention on budging on their um

[1:01:26] price according to my discussions with him. He has no hard [clears throat]

[1:01:30] feelings towards the city u should the city move forward with the condemnation

[1:01:36] um uh resolution um and the resolution to hire the appropriate legal

[1:01:44] authorities to represent us in doing that. Uh there were discussions in the

[1:01:48] past with the land owner and the city on u uh

[1:01:55] maybe I don't want to call it a land swap type of deal but it it was

[1:02:00] something that hopefully could be worked out where there would be a dedication of

[1:02:06] the rightway um u on the western half to the city provided that a a a reszoning

[1:02:16] were to take place, there were no promises made. Nobody from the city

[1:02:20] bound or or attempted to bind the city because there there's no way anybody

[1:02:26] from the city could bind the city to such a condition. Uh there there's no

[1:02:32] that that is the purview of the council. Um the council rejected that reszone

[1:02:37] proposition when it came forward uh for a couple of reasons. Uh I don't have to

[1:02:42] rehash those. If you're at the meeting, you know why. Uh but anyway, so they're

[1:02:48] not budging on their price. Uh I think what we've offered based on the

[1:02:52] appraisal report and um if you compare the the numbers and run the numbers

[1:02:59] yourself, what we offered I think is fair market value. Um and that's really

[1:03:04] all I'm going to say about that. So, I'll make a motion to

[1:03:09] um >> move forward

[1:03:12] » move forward with the engagement of the law firm and then we

[1:03:16] can go to the second one. But they all they kind of tie together, but we can

[1:03:20] only do them one at a time. So, make a motion.

[1:03:23] » Do Thank you, Mike. Do we have a second? >> I'll second that motion.

[1:03:27] » All right. Motion and a second. We'll go ahead and start. Uh Mr. Mr. Wagner,

[1:03:32] we'll start with you. >> Sure. Um,

[1:03:36] Mr. Was Kovak, I appreciate you uh kind of bringing us up today. I'm a little

[1:03:41] bit disappointed in that this item come before us and uh I only saw the

[1:03:46] appraisal uh yesterday when you sent it to me. It would appear to me like before

[1:03:51] we start suing people for condemnation or any other purpose, the council would

[1:03:55] be provided with a little bit more facts. My first question is who in fact

[1:04:00] had the negotiations? you said you weren't qualified to do it, but it would

[1:04:04] seem logical that some city representative would have something in

[1:04:07] writing that council could en enjoy. Uh it appears that the um developer is uh

[1:04:14] making his own uh comp, so to speak, when he bought a house that the city

[1:04:19] took $170,000 shellacking on. Uh, and I said once upon a time, I wouldn't at

[1:04:26] council at that point, but maybe maybe we each needed to read a copy of uh, The

[1:04:31] Art of the Deal by a guy. Uh, and at that time, Fletcher Road u, we we had

[1:04:38] full set of plans and we knew where the routes were going to be. So, we knew

[1:04:42] where the west end was going to go versus the east end. We took no

[1:04:46] consideration. But, let's go back to the cops for a

[1:04:49] moment. Uh the the road had to jog jog south because the city and previous

[1:04:55] administrations had let a building encroach the master street plan which

[1:05:00] caused the road to J to all on be on the AJ properties which by the way the road

[1:05:06] is going over a pond. So I don't think you can compare swamp land to a hard

[1:05:12] corner on Bington. And in in fact u I adamantly while not being on the council

[1:05:19] was shocked and amazed that this council actually even considered without taking

[1:05:24] competitive bids what that property was worth and it was oh well we're going to

[1:05:27] lose some because we got to give it to the rideways and everything. You don't

[1:05:32] bargain a whole project one piece at a time. You take it in a macro aspect. And

[1:05:40] I'm not sure who done the negotiations, but it's a damn poor one from what I can

[1:05:45] see to this point with what little information that I've been given. And I

[1:05:50] hope that we all learn going forward from this that a little bit more

[1:05:54] documentation and communications would be healthy for all and probably a little

[1:05:59] bit less expensive. But we're kind of in a sticky wicket. And unfortunately,

[1:06:05] um, this is what you get when you halfway considered. Ready, aim, fire.

[1:06:11] No, this is ready, fire, aim. And in fact, we had to rush to vote because

[1:06:16] this developer was going to order some iron to make a decision to sell a corner

[1:06:21] lot, which had more value to him than anybody else because the setback rules

[1:06:27] go away when he owns all the property. Um, again, I cannot explain enough what

[1:06:34] a poor job the city has done to this point and why we're in this situation. I

[1:06:40] yield. >> Hey, Mr. Graves.

[1:06:43] » I got nothing. >> Mr. Montes,

[1:06:48] » I have nothing as well. >> Mr. Arty,

[1:06:54] » nothing. >> Miss Burrus.

[1:06:57] » Thank you, Madam Mayor. I would try to be uh as kind as possible. Um I hope

[1:07:03] nobody gets their feelings hurt here or elsewhere.

[1:07:06] » Mr. Burr, just a moment. U would you mind starting the clock over?

[1:07:12] » I [snorts] would. >> She wants to make sure I have my full

[1:07:14] minutes >> on the record to be kind.

[1:07:16] » All right, Mr. Burst, go ahead. >> Thank you. I lost five seconds. That's

[1:07:20] fine. Um, this piece of property has been the

[1:07:24] bane of my existence since it first came into our periphery. Uh, I have literally

[1:07:32] never voted in the affirmative for anything this council has ever tried to

[1:07:37] do with it. Um, and if I do vote yes to move forward on condemnation, it will be

[1:07:43] the first time that I have voted yes on a single thing about this property. Uh,

[1:07:47] I've been extremely disappointed with the way the city has acted. Um, I think

[1:07:52] the city has made a lot of really, really foolish decisions. And to answer

[1:07:58] your question, Mr. Wagner, as to who moved into a negotiation role, I'd like

[1:08:03] to first of all commend council member Wkoak for not moving in to that

[1:08:08] particular posture. But there was a former council person um who will remain

[1:08:12] unnamed uh who took upon themselves to do a fair amount of that negotiating. Um

[1:08:18] again to be kind, I believe they were trying to do what they thought was best

[1:08:22] to make something happen, but they stepped way out of their um their

[1:08:27] authority. So with that said, as we've been dealing

[1:08:31] with this particular property, as we've been dealing with this particular issue,

[1:08:35] swamp land and all, you're not wrong. Um Reeden Associates um gave us this

[1:08:43] appraisal. Readen Associates has a great uh great reputation and um

[1:08:50] I believe their pricing to be fair and adequate. Um even if it were not, for

[1:08:57] the owner of this property to just pick some number out of thin air is is

[1:09:02] ridiculous. So I do not love the idea of condemning a property. I do not love the

[1:09:08] idea of imminent domain, but I'm not entirely certain how we move forward

[1:09:13] when apparently there was a little wink wink nudge nudge previously of hey, you

[1:09:17] do this, we'll do that, which never got an approval from this council or

[1:09:21] anywhere else. Um, but it's uh a little bit of what has happened here for the

[1:09:27] last 135 years or so, which is you scratch my back and and I'll roll over

[1:09:32] for you so you can take full advantage. It's just not appropriate. It's not

[1:09:38] showing good fiduciary responsibility for the city. So, I am not super excited

[1:09:44] about where we find ourselves and I [clears throat] would rather that A&J

[1:09:48] had some other idea in mind that perhaps we find a way to work through. But we do

[1:09:54] have an appraisal whether we got it yesterday or not uh or sorry for the

[1:09:59] first time yesterday or not. I I knew that number before. Um, but I don't see

[1:10:05] how we move forward when we've got such a chasm of roughly $400,000 between us

[1:10:13] that they can't come up with any other idea except well, we want more money for

[1:10:17] that. Um, so I'm glad that they like us. I'm glad they like Mike. I'm glad they

[1:10:23] don't have hard feelings and they recognize that it's business. Uh but um

[1:10:29] we do indeed need to act like professionals. We do indeed need to

[1:10:35] ready ourselves, aim, and then fire instead of just saying, "Well, I guess

[1:10:40] we've got to do that thing now." So I agree with you, Mr. Wagner. I do believe

[1:10:44] that we need to do better. Uh, and unfortunately because we didn't and they

[1:10:50] didn't, we find ourselves in a rather unusual and unfortunate position. I

[1:10:56] yield. >> Mr. Wishak.

[1:11:00] » Yes. [clears throat] Just a just a couple of things. Um, the

[1:11:04] only two people who wouldn't have seen this before I reeailed it on uh Monday

[1:11:11] would have been Mr. Wagner and Mr. Graves because they're both new. Uh,

[1:11:15] post date. the uh appraisal. Again, I'm not casting aspersions on anybody in the

[1:11:21] city either. It it it this probably could have been handled a little bit

[1:11:24] better. I don't like uh uh the situation and I think this is a last resort method

[1:11:34] that should only be used as a last resort. And I don't see any other resort

[1:11:38] to resort to to beat that word to death uh at this particular point. So, I I I'm

[1:11:47] not super happy, but I don't see any other way forward at this moment. Uh,

[1:11:54] so, and I'll yield the rest of my time. >> Okay, Mr. Wagner, your second round.

[1:11:59] » I really don't have anything to say, but you can't fix stupid. Thank you,

[1:12:04] » Mr. Graves. >> Nothing to add,

[1:12:07] » Mr. Montes. >> Um, no. I I I mean I just kind of echo

[1:12:13] everything that was set up here. You know, um this has been mishandled and

[1:12:17] we've got to do what we've got to do and uh this seems like the next appropriate

[1:12:21] course of action. >> Hey, Mr. Artmani. Oh.

[1:12:24] » Yes, ma'am. >> I don't have anything to add.

[1:12:27] » All right, Mr. Burrus. >> No, ma'am. Thank you.

[1:12:29] » Uh Mr. Wish Koak. >> All done.

[1:12:33] » Welcome. >> Craig,

[1:12:36] » yes. Mick, >> for clarification, we are voting on the

[1:12:41] item C, which is to hire the lawyer. Correct.

[1:12:45] » Correct. >> Yes, sir.

[1:12:46] » Yes. >> Danny,

[1:12:50] » yes. >> Larry,

[1:12:52] » yes.

[1:12:56] » Mike, >> yes.

[1:12:58] » Tim, >> yes.

[1:13:00] » Okay. Moving on to D. A discussion and approval of proposed resolution allowing

[1:13:05] condemnation for Fletcher Road. Mr. Wish Koak.

[1:13:08] » Um, I don't think I really have anything to add, although I think um um I will

[1:13:15] add this as a just a personal note. Um I I believe the attorney that will be

[1:13:20] handling this from the firm. I I I know him and he's a super good dude. Uh so if

[1:13:27] that uh puts anybody [laughter] at ease, uh so be it for what it's worth. But uh

[1:13:33] I'll make a motion to approve this resolution.

[1:13:37] Do we have a second? >> I will second that.

[1:13:39] » All right. Um, we'll start with Mr. Wagner.

[1:13:43] » Is this discussion? >> Yes, sir.

[1:13:47] » Well, the only thing I can do is pray that when this becomes before a judge

[1:13:54] that he can feel mercy on uh Forest Gump once said, "Stupid is

[1:14:04] stupid does." And uh we'll look at this appraisal

[1:14:09] and figure that a developer that paid $2.25 cents a square foot for property

[1:14:16] owner about April 7th of 2025 and now expects to receive three times

[1:14:23] that amount in an 18month growth period. uh might think that would be absorbent

[1:14:29] even though the comp that is used to compare to is land that this city sold

[1:14:35] him. Um and with that uh just pray for mercy. Judge, [laughter]

[1:14:43] » you yield your time. >> Yes.

[1:14:46] » Mr. Graves, >> I yield my time.

[1:14:48] » Mr. Montes, >> no comment.

[1:14:50] » Mr. Armmani, >> no comment.

[1:14:52] » Mr. Burus? >> I yield. Thank you.

[1:14:53] » And Mr. Wish Kak? >> No. Thank you, mayor.

[1:14:56] » All right. Is it all right if we go ahead and move forward or do we want to

[1:14:59] go through the second round of >> y my time?

[1:15:04] » We can move forward. I'll yield my second bite.

[1:15:06] » All right. >> I have nothing to say.

[1:15:08] » Roll call. >> Craig,

[1:15:11] » yes. >> Mick,

[1:15:14] » Danny, >> yes.

[1:15:15] » Larry, >> yes.

[1:15:16] » Mike, >> yes.

[1:15:18] » And Tim, >> yes.

[1:15:20] » All right, moving on to E. A discussion and appointment of alderman to the city

[1:15:23] of Tonytown standing committees. Mr. Wish Kak.

[1:15:26] » Um, council, you see before you, uh, the resolution. Um,

[1:15:32] there's a couple of things.

[1:15:37] » Well, do I need to state my position on this

[1:15:41] or just make a motion to to >> make a motion for it or

[1:15:48] » I I want to make sure I'm doing this right, counselor. I haven't had a chance

[1:15:50] to >> You You need to make a motion. Um but

[1:15:55] but also we've been allowing for introduction statements. So I think you

[1:15:59] need to give an introduction and then make a motion.

[1:16:01] » I will do that. Thank you. Um we [clears throat]

[1:16:07] have a little bit of a conflict in our ordinance and that it calls for three uh

[1:16:11] council members, but I'm hoping um there's a an easy rectification for

[1:16:17] that. I'll I I will bring a um resolution or anybody else can next time

[1:16:21] that uh we'll we'll do a a similar committee meeting style to what is done

[1:16:27] in um other cities where all committees will meet on the same night. Um

[1:16:35] and that'll put this uh three council member issue

[1:16:41] to rest perhaps. Um u also

[1:16:48] these if if appointments are my suggestions um based on discussions with

[1:16:56] um um I've talked with the incoming mayor and Mr. Zupo and we just came up

[1:17:02] with these together. I could not obviously ask each council member what

[1:17:06] they wanted. Uh so the only thing that I might see is a change. I didn't have Mr.

[1:17:13] Burus as a chair and that's just >> good good common sense through that.

[1:17:18] It's just good common sense. >> I mean if if you want to be chair of

[1:17:20] something anyway. So um with that I'll make a motion that we approve this

[1:17:25] resolution as it's written. >> Do I have a second?

[1:17:29] » I will second that. >> All right. Um discussion. Mr. Wagner.

[1:17:33] » Yes. Uh to clear up some of the preamble that Mr. Wkoviac said regarding three

[1:17:38] members. You're correct. There's nothing in the ordinance that said they all have

[1:17:42] to be three appointed tonight. Um, in regards to that, you mentioned a

[1:17:46] resolution. I think it was an ordinance that formed this or an amending

[1:17:49] ordinance. And uh, I'll I'll challenge you, Mr. Wascoak, to uh, provide an

[1:17:55] amending ordinance to require this to have two two members versus three. Uh

[1:18:01] the one thing that that's not been mentioned is in the existing ordinance

[1:18:06] which is not before us. uh it says that there's other support people and and I

[1:18:13] assume but I want to get this out for the thought of all the panel that uh the

[1:18:19] chair and co-chair would would I guess collectively look and see in in the case

[1:18:25] for an example water we certainly want the city engineer to be a part of that

[1:18:30] and we'd certainly want uh the water and chair u director to be a part of that.

[1:18:38] So, if I understand that correctly, that would be the purview of the council

[1:18:44] members to choose those supporting people if that's the correct term. Uh,

[1:18:48] is is that I I believe that's correct. >> Yeah, I don't think it says anywhere in

[1:18:55] the ordinance itself. Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone that may have it in front

[1:18:58] of them, but typically the way um committees would be would work under

[1:19:02] just parliamentary procedural rules is the chair would appoint. Uh, I don't

[1:19:06] remember. It's on the screen now. You scroll down to membership a little

[1:19:10] further. Um, yeah, I'm trying to look at the original ordinance. Um, yeah, I

[1:19:16] think it's silent beyond chair and vice chair, right? So, there are no minimum

[1:19:21] or maximum amount of members. I think the chair has the the authority to um

[1:19:27] will further >> any recommendation be

[1:19:30] » Matty go down just a little further, please.

[1:19:32] » Okay. So, this has clarified what I think I'm looking after here, which is

[1:19:36] that there is no minimum maximum amount of um appointments that need to be made.

[1:19:40] So, it it is within the chair's perview. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor.

[1:19:46] » Hang on just one moment. >> Oh, sorry, Mr.

[1:19:48] » Going down the road. >> I yield.

[1:19:50] » All right. Um, Mr. Graves, >> yield.

[1:19:53] » Monte, >> uh, thank you, Mr. Wash Kak and, uh,

[1:19:57] incoming mayor for putting this list together. Um, I uh also would like to

[1:20:03] thank you for putting me in the two spots I publicly put um that I would

[1:20:08] like to participate in. So, I think as long as everybody else is okay with

[1:20:12] where they're at on this, um I don't see why we wouldn't go with this um

[1:20:18] this example in front of us, this resolution. I yield.

[1:20:21] » Okay. I'm going to go ahead and take my time right now. Um I just want to let

[1:20:24] you know that Mr. Graves did send me his three and I did give them to uh Mr. Wish

[1:20:29] Koak. So, Mr. Gri, I just want to let you know that I did pass that along. All

[1:20:34] right, Mr. Artmmani, >> and the only thing I have is we were

[1:20:38] talking about soliciting people or getting people for committees. I think

[1:20:43] it would have to be where they readily say yes, I will. I don't want to go out

[1:20:48] and say, "Mr. Bratcher, you're on the parks and recck committee whether you

[1:20:51] like it or not." You know, I don't want to pull that kind of stunt, but but as

[1:20:55] long as people acquies or agree to be on a committee, uh, I'm good with it.

[1:21:00] [snorts] >> Yield

[1:21:03] » first. >> Well, I hate to cause trouble, but a

[1:21:05] couple things happened. Number one, uh, this particular page, I've got notes on

[1:21:08] everything before it and everything after it, but apparently those got stuck

[1:21:11] together. So, I didn't see where all the names landed. And, uh, after the email

[1:21:16] from Tyler Ferrar, I was under the impression that we were not supposed to

[1:21:19] be putting out there where we wanted to be. that that would all come up tonight.

[1:21:23] With that said, the public safety committee, of which I am the co-chair on

[1:21:27] this list, was literally my fourth choice. I I mean, no offense to the

[1:21:32] public safety committee, uh but uh that was my fourth of what, five choices, six

[1:21:39] choices. Uh so I it's [clears throat] fine, but I would much rather be on

[1:21:44] parks and wreck. Uh uh I think finance and budget makes perfect sense with my

[1:21:48] background. Um, but if anybody is uh is willing to make a change there, uh I

[1:21:54] would appreciate that very much.

[1:22:01] » Well, I am temporary and you may be full-time. So, if you want me to acquies

[1:22:06] then and move over with with with Danny, I I will I will try to do that.

[1:22:10] » Well, and that's the other benefit is that you would get to be with Danny.

[1:22:14] » Okay. Yeah, sure. >> Sure.

[1:22:17] » All right. Um, >> thank you, Larry. So are you motioning

[1:22:19] to amend >> amend?

[1:22:23] » Was that was that your motion? Okay. >> If that's his motion, I will I will

[1:22:28] second it.

[1:22:31] » So you made the motion to amend the resolution.

[1:22:34] » Chair co-chairs on the swap swap four and five.

[1:22:38] » Four and five. Okay. >> Thank you.

[1:22:42] » Okay. Do you yield the rest of your time, Mr. Burrus?

[1:22:44] » I do. >> All right. Mr. Wish Kak.

[1:22:48] uh just one comment. I have no intention of uh unilaterally appointing anyone to

[1:22:54] anything that they don't want to be on. So, uh it will certainly be a

[1:22:58] conversation. I think that there's been a little bit of reluctance among council

[1:23:02] members themselves to be uh put on committees. So, we're certainly not

[1:23:07] going to try to force this upon someone who doesn't want to be

[1:23:10] » Hey, mayor. I'm sorry. Can I interrupt? >> Sir,

[1:23:13] » you have a secondary and a main motion pending right now. you need to call for

[1:23:17] a vote on the amendment so we can get back to business.

[1:23:20] » Okay, let me go ahead and do that. Everybody understand what's going on

[1:23:24] here? We have the motion and for the amendment.

[1:23:27] » The amendment is um Tim will move to co-chair of parks and wreck and Larry

[1:23:32] will move to co-chair of uh public safety committee. Cool.

[1:23:36] » Roll call. >> That needs a second.

[1:23:38] » I will second that. >> Roll call.

[1:23:44] » Okay. Um, Craig, >> yes.

[1:23:47] » Meg, >> yes.

[1:23:48] » Danny, >> so we're voting on the amendment, not on

[1:23:53] passage. >> Okay. Yes,

[1:23:56] » Larry. >> Yes.

[1:23:57] » Mike, >> yes.

[1:23:58] » Tim, >> yes.

[1:24:02] » Okay, Mr. Wish Koyak, did you amend or yield

[1:24:06] the rest of your time >> for the first round?

[1:24:09] » Uh, just one other comment that these will change again at first of the year.

[1:24:14] Okay. Uh, we'll start second round. Mr. Wagner, do you have anything else?

[1:24:19] » Nothing. >> Mr. Graves,

[1:24:20] » yield. >> Mr. Montes.

[1:24:23] » Uh, thank you, Mr. Wash for pointing that out that uh this will change here

[1:24:28] at the beginning of the year. This is kind of like a test run of this uh this

[1:24:33] this procedure. So, uh I think that's good to know. So, we'll all kind of know

[1:24:38] where where we need to be ne next year. I yield.

[1:24:43] » Mr. Armmani, >> I have nothing.

[1:24:45] » Mr. Burus? >> No, ma'am. Thank you.

[1:24:47] » All right. Mr. Wish Kodak. >> Nothing else. Thank you, Mayor.

[1:24:50] » Okay, roll call. >> Craig,

[1:24:52] » yes. >> Mick,

[1:24:53] » yes. >> Danny,

[1:24:54] » yes. >> Larry,

[1:24:56] » yes. >> Mike,

[1:24:57] » yes. >> And Tim,

[1:24:58] » yes. >> All right, we'll move on to F, a

[1:25:00] discussion approval of a proposed resolution allowing the fire department

[1:25:03] to rearrange funds for the purchase of tools and equip equipment. Mr. Montes.

[1:25:08] » Yes, ma'am. I was brought this uh to my attention by the uh fire chief, Chief

[1:25:13] Krug. Um they are looking to outfit a truck with updated equipment and in lie

[1:25:21] of purchasing that John Deere uh lawnmower, they're wanting to repurpose

[1:25:25] those funds uh in the budget to purchase those. um he had broughten by two

[1:25:32] estimates um that were provided in a u Excel spreadsheet to us um kind of broke

[1:25:39] breaking them down to you know uh which company came up with each amount one was

[1:25:45] I think 22,700 the other one was 20,700

[1:25:50] um so we're underneath that 25,000 uh that was

[1:25:57] um allocated ated for that John Deere. Um, so I brought this to council to get

[1:26:03] the approval on that. Um, I'll make a motion so we can get to discussion.

[1:26:07] » Second. >> Roll call. Oh, I'm sorry.

[1:26:13] » Not roll call. >> All right. Um,

[1:26:16] » Mr. Par. >> Yes, mayor. We have uh the chief here

[1:26:22] and uh since we don't have committees yet and we don't have um anyone

[1:26:27] » someone wants to hear from the chief, you need a motion and a second and a

[1:26:30] roll call vote to let them chief talk. >> I move that we uh let the chief uh make

[1:26:36] us all that much smarter. >> I second.

[1:26:39] » Roll call. >> Tim,

[1:26:42] » yes. >> Mike,

[1:26:44] » yes. >> Larry,

[1:26:45] » yes. >> Danny,

[1:26:46] » yes. Mick. >> Yes. Although I think I can read but go

[1:26:51] ahead chief. >> I just want to

[1:26:57] » Yes. >> I just want to clarify that the amount

[1:26:59] on there was the just want to make sure I understood what Mr. Montes was saying,

[1:27:03] but the amount is the 25 [snorts] 63673 I believe. So, and it is more than the

[1:27:10] price of the mower. So, we will adjust the budget accordingly.

[1:27:16] » All right. We'll start discussion. We'll start with Mr. Wagner.

[1:27:20] » No comment. >> Hey, Mr. Graves.

[1:27:22] » Nothing to add. >> Mr. Montes?

[1:27:25] » No, ma'am. >> Mr. Artmani?

[1:27:27] » Nothing. >> Mr. Burus?

[1:27:28] » No, ma'am. Thank you. >> Mr. Rush Koak.

[1:27:31] » Thank you, Chief, for uh the details you provided us here. I appreciate it.

[1:27:34] » All right. Instead of going a second round, can we go ahead and roll call?

[1:27:38] » Hi. >> Please.

[1:27:39] » All right. Roll call. >> Barry?

[1:27:42] » Yes. >> Danny?

[1:27:44] » Yes. >> Tim? Yes,

[1:27:46] » Mike. >> Yes,

[1:27:48] » Mick. >> Yes,

[1:27:49] » Craig. >> Yes.

[1:27:50] » All right, moving on to G. A discussion and approval of a resolution adopting

[1:27:54] the city of Tony Town's organizational chart. Mr. Wagner.

[1:27:57] » Uh, I think this is probably pretty self-explanatory, but over the past few

[1:28:02] months, um, several department heads have been defined clearly now. And so

[1:28:08] this is a revision of the existing organization

[1:28:13] chart to true up to what actually is now uh, in ordinance form. With that, uh, I

[1:28:20] pray for a favorable vote and make a motion that this passes. Do I have a

[1:28:25] second? >> Second.

[1:28:27] » All right. Discussion. Mr. Wagner? >> None.

[1:28:30] » Mr. Graves? >> None.

[1:28:32] » Mr. Montes. >> Um, I just think this was laid out

[1:28:36] pretty well. Um, I'm interested to hear if anybody on else council thinks it u

[1:28:42] could be drafted in any other way, but it looks pretty good to me. I yield the

[1:28:46] rest of my time. >> Mr. Artmani.

[1:28:50] » I don't have anything. >> Mr. Burus.

[1:28:53] » Uh, no, ma'am. Thank you, >> Mr. Wish Kyak.

[1:28:55] » Uh, just thank you for the detailed exhibit A. Uh, very thorough. Um, it's u

[1:29:02] good to see that. Thank you. >> Everybody. Okay, moving on.

[1:29:08] Roll call >> question.

[1:29:11] » Tim, >> yes.

[1:29:12] » Mike, >> yes.

[1:29:14] » Larry, >> yes.

[1:29:15] » Danny, >> yes.

[1:29:16] » Nick, >> yes.

[1:29:18] » Craig, >> yes.

[1:29:19] » All right, we'll move on to H. A discussion regarding the Tinytown

[1:29:22] Community Foundation. Mr. Montes. >> Yes, ma'am. Uh we discussed this uh last

[1:29:27] meeting um talking about the Tony Town uh historic historical museum over here

[1:29:35] and I had brought up a question asking about the Tonytown Foundation um and

[1:29:42] whether those funds were um a part of that reserve fund and all the fundings

[1:29:47] that was in there or if this is a separate thing. Um, so I thought we

[1:29:50] could have a little discussion on that and see if we could clear that up. um

[1:29:56] and find out um just where we're at with the Tony Town Foundation and um I mean

[1:30:04] where those funds are um documented as far as whether or not they're in our um

[1:30:12] reporting that we get from the clerk treasur and uh where we're at on that

[1:30:17] that uh entity. [clears throat]

[1:30:23] » Mr. Um, Ferrar, did you want do you have anything that you would like to speak to

[1:30:27] about? >> Well, um, I'm the city attorney, so I'm

[1:30:32] here for legal advice. If I'm being called to ask factual questions, someone

[1:30:37] may, but right now there's no pending question to me.

[1:30:41] What would you like? >> I didn't know if you wanted to go over,

[1:30:44] you know, what you had uh what you with at this at this [clears throat] point.

[1:30:49] » Okay. Yeah. I mean I wasn't here um from a from a you know factual perspective I

[1:30:54] don't know what occurred I have been asked to sort of look into corporate

[1:30:58] documents that were constructed um by the city what I found is that um there

[1:31:04] is a separate legal organization the Tinytown Community Foundation um and

[1:31:10] that has been incorporated by the city um um I mean I don't know what you want

[1:31:16] me to speak to this is there's a very dense history here and I wasn't here for

[1:31:20] it. But um there is a community foundation. It is a separate

[1:31:24] organization. Doesn't have um really any co-mingling or interlock interlocking

[1:31:29] sort of um overlap between the city and its board as far as I can tell. Um there

[1:31:35] are no documents in place that require the community foundation to give money

[1:31:39] to the city. Um so there's a lot of legal corrections that need to be done

[1:31:45] with this. Um again, I can't speak historically. really wasn't here, but um

[1:31:49] there's some things to fix with this. >> Okay. Well, I can just tell you we we

[1:31:53] wanted to come up with a a a community foundation and um of course I we had no

[1:31:59] idea how to do it correctly. So, we went to um Harrington Miller and asked them

[1:32:04] to help us get a 501c3 and a community uh foundation started and we went

[1:32:09] exactly by what the attorney told us to do and that's where we're at now.

[1:32:13] » Uh is this discussion time? >> Yes, sir. I'll go ahead and start with

[1:32:16] Mr. Wagner, >> are we going? Okay, thank you. Yogi Bear

[1:32:20] once said deja vu all over again. Uh, previously I provided the council with a

[1:32:25] detailed position paper concerning the Tiny Town Community Foundation aka TCF.

[1:32:30] Tonight I will identify the central facts and newly produced records. First,

[1:32:36] this is not an attack on the foundation, its mission, or the citizens who

[1:32:40] volunteered their time. a privately funded founding foundation benefiting

[1:32:45] county may be worthwhile. My concern is how this organization was concerned and

[1:32:50] how public resources were used. The available record shows that Mark Laam

[1:32:55] and Mayor Russell discussed forming a 5013C for city related projects and the

[1:32:59] mayor agreed to proceed. It also indicates that only two aldermen

[1:33:03] particip participated in some discussions or meetings while the other

[1:33:07] four aldermen were not involved. Mr. Leam acknowledges that a complete

[1:33:12] council was never fully informed or formally authorized the sign the

[1:33:16] expenditures to form TCF. Yet the project proceeded without any identified

[1:33:25] full public presentation to the council explaining its structure, private

[1:33:29] control, use of city resources or expected benefits before the city funds

[1:33:34] were spent. The city retained attorneys, prepared the organization, and taxexempt

[1:33:39] documentation, but the corporation was not placed under the city control. A

[1:33:44] private board controls it. The city apparently cannot appoint directors,

[1:33:48] control accounts or expenditures, amend bylaws, or automatically receive any

[1:33:52] assets. Newly produced records now put a much sharper point on the funding issue.

[1:33:59] October uh November 8, 2023 before incorporation and formation expenses

[1:34:05] occurred, city attorney Justy Ikeman introduced Mr. Leighton to his firm's

[1:34:10] tax attorney and advised him directly. The foundation would have to be

[1:34:14] established with private, not city funds. Nevertheless, July 29, 2024, TCF

[1:34:23] received and forwarded by email to Mr. them two bills for the si from the

[1:34:28] city's law firm, Mr. Aman's firm, totaling $1370,

[1:34:32] and asked in that email, what do we do with these? Records do not show who

[1:34:37] authorized the city payments. The invoices were built to CCF, not the

[1:34:41] city, yet the city paid for these TCF bills. On August 13, 2026,

[1:34:48] city attorney Ferrar explained that constitutional concerns extend beyond

[1:34:52] money to personal, property, and other resources. The city supplied staff,

[1:34:57] time, email, city hall, and retain councils with while the corporation

[1:35:02] remained privately controlled. The city's receipt journal now add another

[1:35:07] important fact. From January of 2024 through late August of 26, over 9,113

[1:35:15] receipt lines which include 60 entries coded as donations or return uh

[1:35:20] reimbursements. However, not one entry identifies a receipt from TCF. The

[1:35:26] city's books therefore show zero dollars received from TCF, not for the parks,

[1:35:31] not for the museum or any other city department of fund. Mr. Ikeman says the

[1:35:36] city should not have happened in its billing and they say they're going to

[1:35:41] reimburse it. Well, whoopla, but that repays only the hard dollar expense. It

[1:35:46] does not calculate or repay the city for staff time, city hall, or administrative

[1:35:52] handling. The record identifies no method of calculating and recovering

[1:35:56] those costs. The taxpayers therefore have not been shown to be made whole.

[1:36:01] So, this is not merely about $1370. is about the chain of government authority.

[1:36:06] I am not asking the council tonight to declare that anyone committed an illegal

[1:36:10] exaction or violated law. I'm asking that we establish facts, determine legal

[1:36:16] authority, correct weaknesses in our controls, p pause further city

[1:36:20] promotions or use of city resources for TCF until the council approves a

[1:36:25] transparent structure in public. Identify these problems is not enough.

[1:36:30] The council should give citizens a clear, accountable way. I recommend a

[1:36:34] properly noticed meeting directing the city attorney and our CPAs to obtain a

[1:36:39] written proposal from Arkansas Community Foundation without committing the city

[1:36:44] before action would be reserved for the council. Proposal should initially

[1:36:49] include separate proposals for funds for the museum and parks and wreck. After

[1:36:54] public review and council approval, the city's website and official Facebook

[1:36:57] page should provide direct donation leaks for each fund, which provide

[1:37:01] donors with receipts and including details of the donation. Until then,

[1:37:06] city communication should not encourage donations that could cause public to

[1:37:10] believe the city owns or controls TFC. This does not accuse TCF volunteers of

[1:37:17] wrongdoing. It preserves the charitable goal while separating city government

[1:37:22] from privately controlled corporations and placing administrations.

[1:37:26] Reimbursement for legal bills is appropriate, but reimbursement is not an

[1:37:30] explanation. The city of Tiny Town and this council are entitled to both

[1:37:34] explanations and responsible path forwards. An appendix is a copy of this

[1:37:38] and anybody can have it that shows a timeline to support what I've just said.

[1:37:42] Thank you. >> Hey, Mr. Graves.

[1:37:45] » Nothing to add. >> Mr. Fontes. Well, I think we learned

[1:37:49] quite a bit from that um that Mr. Wagner. And I had a little bit

[1:37:55] of questions for uh our attorney over there, but it seemed like that uh pretty

[1:38:00] much cleared it up. >> Okay.

[1:38:01] » Um I mean, essentially those funds were paid by the city. Yet,

[1:38:07] we don't have anything that's ever been proven to us to show, you know, what

[1:38:11] funds are in that account. being that it is a

[1:38:15] a you know a standalone entity. It's almost essentially equivalent to the the

[1:38:20] gentleman that came up here this morning or earlier today, the Arkansas uh

[1:38:25] community foundation. This is almost like an entity that would be presented

[1:38:29] like hers. Um totally separate from the government here of Tony Town. Um,

[1:38:37] so I guess we have no no reason to look into that, but I'm just puzzled, you

[1:38:41] know, to how how does that affect, you know, I heard we were selling bricks

[1:38:47] for the community building over here. How does that affect

[1:38:51] I guess I'm I'm a little murky on how how do those bricks get placed in th in,

[1:38:56] you know, from those donations on a tiny town entity that we're

[1:39:01] constructing? You know, I get the the point of that, but the funds are just

[1:39:07] comingling and then it just sounds like based off of what Mr. Ikeman has

[1:39:13] presented, we even co-mingled as from the existence of this. Um, so I'm a

[1:39:17] little perplexed on where we're at with this entity and how it is in regards to

[1:39:25] the city of Tony Town. And I should clarify, I was caught off

[1:39:30] guard to c be called to speak to the entire issue. I'm happy to answer legal

[1:39:34] questions. You you seem to pose some legal questions in there and I'm happy

[1:39:37] to take those on. Yes, Mr. Ikeman did confirm to me an email that the his firm

[1:39:43] uh was paid for this and he's confirmed he's going to remit those payments back.

[1:39:47] Yes, we have confirmed city money was paid. To your sort of broader question,

[1:39:51] there is no control. This is a se this is like creating an LLC with its own

[1:39:56] member management class or or shareholders or whatever. There is no

[1:40:00] control whatsoever. >> It is operating as the Tiny Town

[1:40:04] Community Foundation, but it could um under its charter, under its bylaws, it

[1:40:09] could repurpose itself as something completely different and rename itself

[1:40:12] tomorrow and then all the money for those bricks could be used for whatever

[1:40:15] the purpose they see fit legally. M >> not to suggest that they would do that,

[1:40:22] right? But we live in a world where they could and it's our job to make sure that

[1:40:26] we don't let them live in a world where >> we create things, they raise money on

[1:40:31] our behalf and then we have no accountability.

[1:40:33] » So hypothetically speaking, Mr. Ferrar, if I were to donate to

[1:40:38] would it be possible for me to donate straight to the city that money for,

[1:40:43] you know, say I wanted to bench out here in the park out here in the park. What

[1:40:47] is that a tax deductible donation that I could present to the city rather than go

[1:40:52] through this? >> I am not a tax attorney and don't

[1:40:54] profess to be, but I my belief is yes. There is no um requirement there is no

[1:40:59] prohibition against giving money to a municipal uh or municipal government for

[1:41:05] tax purposes and and the and the city can take tax the city can take

[1:41:09] donations. >> Okay.

[1:41:11] » Okay. In other words, I don't know that we

[1:41:14] have checked all the boxes to identify a foundation has an underlying

[1:41:17] » well legal need. >> Thank you. And to that, you know, I

[1:41:21] looked before I brought this to council to have a discussion on this. I looked

[1:41:26] for any kind of ordinance or resolution. Uh the closest thing I could find was

[1:41:30] back in March of 2024. um and you'll feel free to go watch it.

[1:41:35] But in March 19th, 2024 at minute 23 um and 50 seconds, we had a small smidg

[1:41:44] discussion about um the current status of this entity and how we had um

[1:41:53] appointed, you know, a president and a co-president and directors that were on

[1:41:59] there. Um, but that's as far as I can find anything as far as our involvement.

[1:42:06] It sounds like we didn't have any involvement in it. Um,

[1:42:11] so I'm I'm kind of, you know, when when I heard of it last meeting and I asked

[1:42:16] that question, we kind of had our communication. Um, it just kind of left

[1:42:20] me perplexed on where we're at on those donations, on those funds, and where

[1:42:24] we're where they're at and how we use them. Um, so thank you for letting me

[1:42:28] have this discussion and I will yield the rest of my time.

[1:42:31] » Artmani, >> I'm going to let the smarter people to

[1:42:35] my right ask questions as opposed to me because I'm thoroughly confused.

[1:42:39] [laughter] >> You yield your time.

[1:42:41] » I yield my time, >> Mr. Burrus.

[1:42:44] » Thank you. To answer council member Montes's um question about tax advantage

[1:42:49] donations to municipal governments, according to the Internal Revenue Code

[1:42:52] 170C1, you can indeed give that to a municipality and get a a tax advantage

[1:42:59] for that. It's something called Route 50. Um, uh, in other news regarding all

[1:43:04] of this, uh, I'm I'm a little torn on how to think about all of it because I

[1:43:12] think there were well-intentioned people doing

[1:43:17] well-intentioned things for a good purpose,

[1:43:23] and yet um, doing it the wrong way doesn't necessarily exempt that. And uh

[1:43:32] I think my biggest concern in the midst of all of it and as council we've been

[1:43:36] sitting here we've we've heard people talk about it and it it's always just

[1:43:40] sort of been presented like this is what we're doing. This is how it's going and

[1:43:43] I thought okay that's cool that's good. Um, but I I think uh and and I don't

[1:43:48] mean to pick on on the law firm, but I think that when we ask our attorneys for

[1:43:55] help that it's incumbent upon the attorneys to give us the right advice

[1:44:01] and I understand that sometimes we're just doing the best we can and I'm not

[1:44:05] that that is not at all aimed at you, Mr. Ferrar. Um but I do appreciate that

[1:44:11] um uh Harrington Miller when they charge the wrong entity and that has been found

[1:44:17] out and uh there they say they will give that money back to us. I appreciate

[1:44:21] that. But I I think just along the line there have been some things that that

[1:44:25] weren't entirely uh correct. Um could each of us as council members dig in a

[1:44:30] little deeper? Sure. I think we can and and should. Uh, and yet there are

[1:44:36] certain areas where we say, you know what, we're hiring them to do a thing

[1:44:39] and and we expect that. So, um, again, I'm a little torn. I don't mean to

[1:44:44] condemn anybody in particular, and if there's any condemnation here, I believe

[1:44:48] that belongs, uh, to to the legal firm there, uh, and not those that have been

[1:44:53] trying to do their best um, to get this handled. However, in the midst of all of

[1:44:57] it, I do appreciate the digging, the cajoling, the kicking, uh the pointing

[1:45:02] out uh of error. Uh because if we don't point out what's wrong, we certainly

[1:45:06] can't fix it, and we most certainly can't fix it in the future. So, uh

[1:45:10] Forest Gump may have been right uh when he said you can't fix stupid. And yet,

[1:45:15] uh maybe you can. >> That was Rod White.

[1:45:18] » Oh, my bad. >> Forest was stupid.

[1:45:20] » That's right. Stupid is a stupid does. Uh we we sometimes put put different

[1:45:24] words in there. Uh, and u, and I uh, I don't in any way want to disparage Yogi

[1:45:31] Bear, >> the lovely Hannah Barber character from

[1:45:34] the 1950s, but it was not Yogi Bear who made that comment. I believe that was

[1:45:38] Yogi Barra of the Yankees fame. I could be wrong. Two of my favorite Yogis. Uh,

[1:45:45] I just want to make sure we get them right. And that is that is all I have to

[1:45:48] say. [laughter] >> Mr. Lori,

[1:45:52] » thank you, Meg. Uh, thank you for providing a little bit of levity there,

[1:45:56] Mr. Burrus. Um, I just want to re-emphasize I I'll keep this really

[1:46:00] short. U, uh, kind of dug into the three position papers that uh, Mr. Wagner sent

[1:46:05] out and just want to reemphasize. I know he asked tough questions and sometimes

[1:46:10] comes at uh, at people a little bit hard, but uh, the bottom line is not

[1:46:15] casting aspersions on anybody who's trying to do this. Um, it may seem that

[1:46:19] way, but it's not. We're just trying to make sure that this thing is tightened

[1:46:22] down uh in in a usable fashion. There there is a world in which these two

[1:46:28] foundations, the Arkansas Community Foundation and Tinytown Community

[1:46:31] Foundation can both uh coexist peacefully together. Uh just pointing

[1:46:36] out some of the weaknesses. Um you know the questions about municipal authority,

[1:46:41] city council authorization, donor transparency, baking and signatory

[1:46:45] controls. Um and uh uh the overall recommendations from the papers is not

[1:46:52] to shut down the charitable fundraising but to complete the factual record,

[1:46:55] attain obtain formal legal review and clarify the city foundation

[1:46:59] relationship, protect donor understanding and establish clear

[1:47:03] financial governance controls before the matter is closed. So and I think those

[1:47:08] are the weaknesses that Mr. Ferrar pointed out u that exist. we can tighten

[1:47:13] those up and we can get this uh thing operational the way it needs to be. Uh a

[1:47:18] couple of key points that that showed some of the weaknesses the foundation

[1:47:23] stated purposes are broad and not limited exclusively to Tonytown. Um I

[1:47:29] think the way the if you can correct me Mr. Fer if if I misstate something

[1:47:34] please do. Um um but donors could not be um assured that the

[1:47:41] funds would be limited to just uh the city of Tiny Town. They could go

[1:47:46] anywhere. Uh the articles uh do not require the foundation assets to pass to

[1:47:52] the city upon its dissolution. Uh that's something that probably needs to be

[1:47:56] rectified. um

[1:47:59] you we could more narrowly define the purposes of the Tonytown Community

[1:48:04] Foundation and probably tighten it up and make it stronger. Um and then

[1:48:12] an important thing that was brought out in all three of the papers, donor

[1:48:15] clarity matters. Uh the papers make it recommend making it unmistakable whether

[1:48:23] a donation is going to the city, the foundation, another charitable

[1:48:26] administrator and whether the gift is restricted. So people when they donate,

[1:48:30] they need to know uh that their donations are going where they want them

[1:48:34] to go. U I think that's pretty important. Uh again, this is not about

[1:48:41] who's on the board now. uh none of us are going to be here in 40 years, but

[1:48:46] this foundation may well be here for 40 years. And if we don't set it up right,

[1:48:53] that's the problem. So, I think uh thank you for bringing these points to us. Uh

[1:48:59] it's I think a fruitful discussion and I think it warrants further looking into

[1:49:04] so that the Tonytown Community Foundation could be a viable entity.

[1:49:11] » Do we get second? >> Yes, Mr. I yield. Okay. Uh, in contrast

[1:49:17] to what Mr. W Koviaak just said, he uses the term we a lot. We don't have a dog

[1:49:23] in the fight. The Tony Town Community Foundation is an entity that's created.

[1:49:30] It was created initially with the funds of the city, but it's been cast free.

[1:49:34] But for those board members, uh, maybe a little bit word of advice. I started my

[1:49:39] conversations with Mr. Laam because u I asked most of y'all y'all didn't have

[1:49:46] a clue but I read through some minutes and the mayor said is our 501c well I

[1:49:52] don't know who our is a mouse in her pocket or the city council but now I

[1:49:55] learned that city council mostly was in the dark but on May 23 an email u shows

[1:50:01] that uh Mr. Laam contacted Mr. Ikeman Mr.

[1:50:07] Dykeman clearly says that he informed contrary to what Mr. Burus pointed out

[1:50:13] that he instructed this should be a private funded situation. My previous

[1:50:19] email and and dissertation says that I also asked u in in my due diligence of

[1:50:26] this trying to learn what TCF was. I discovered it was not in current

[1:50:32] standings with the Arkansas Secretary of State which is formed and shows any uh

[1:50:37] voluntary 50. I also asked for the annual form 990s filed and I have an

[1:50:44] email from Mr. Leam saying because they were under 50,000 they didn't have to.

[1:50:48] Well, that's not exactly right because in the IRS standards

[1:50:53] 50,000 and under forms what's known as a 990- N. anything over 50 to up 2009 990

[1:51:02] EZ. So for those people on the board, you might be considered this. You won't

[1:51:07] have to be worrying about staying around four years because if you file or fail

[1:51:12] to file your federal tax returns in that fashion even though you're a nonprofit,

[1:51:17] you're required to file those firms. You do it three years in a row, you lose

[1:51:21] your tax exempt status. So it will take care of itself unless somebody wants to

[1:51:26] really get involved and bring it forward. Now, from the city's benefit,

[1:51:30] the way this thing is formed, they can give anything. They can give to uh I

[1:51:35] don't know if PETA is a a qualified uh charitable donation, but they can give

[1:51:40] to anybody they want to. There's no ties whatsoever. Maybe Mr. Leam was a little

[1:51:45] confused when he said he had experience with this in Holland, Illinois. Review

[1:51:48] of the record showed that Highland, Illinois has two 5013C's. One is called

[1:51:53] the Community of Highland, Illinois. It is a broad-based community organization.

[1:51:58] History shows that they contribute to the city to the to the uh u schools.

[1:52:04] There's a second one that's closely tied which is for lack of a a correct

[1:52:09] terminology. It's it's regarding youth sports and that's tied real close to the

[1:52:15] city. This is really um not even close to either one of

[1:52:21] those. is the way it's structured. I'm saying we keep using the term we. No, we

[1:52:26] don't have a dog in the fight. Uh we need to structure how we want to deal

[1:52:32] with our parks, our museums to receive funding, and we don't have the

[1:52:40] accounting uh staff even though we got some hired CPAs to keep up with the uh

[1:52:46] documentation of how these funds are received and documented. Uh we need to

[1:52:52] look at a third party until we get much bigger and we have a few million or so

[1:52:58] in our pockets in some quasi or some kind of of uh charitable foundation. I

[1:53:06] yield. >> Okay. Mr. Graves,

[1:53:08] » I yield my time. >> Mr. Montes,

[1:53:11] » no comment. >> Mr. Ottomani,

[1:53:15] » I have nothing. >> Mr. Fur. Uh, well, first off, Council

[1:53:18] Member Wagner, if I misspoke earlier, thank you for pointing it out. I'm not

[1:53:21] sure what I misspoke about, but I trust you. And so, please accept my uh my

[1:53:26] apologies for that. Um, I am um I agree with you. We do say we a lot. Uh

[1:53:33] I think we do that about a lot of things here. Um and we and we shouldn't. But,

[1:53:37] uh I also agree with Mr. Koak. Um uh chances are this council will not be

[1:53:43] seated here in 40 or 50 years from now. But if we can get this thing working

[1:53:48] right, that that would be good if if that's necessary. Um, I did have a

[1:53:52] question and and I don't know if anybody can answer it. But do we even know how

[1:53:56] much is in that foundation currently? >> Private, so a member might graciously

[1:54:02] tell us now, but I hope they got $1370. We're gonna have to pay that law firm.

[1:54:09] But, you know, it really would hurt my feelings if the law firm get stiff or

[1:54:12] something. >> All right, let's move on. I think uh Mr.

[1:54:17] Fur was about to answer that question. >> Yes, he was. And

[1:54:19] » I was just going to say what Mr. Wagner said. We don't know how much is in there

[1:54:22] and we can't compel them to tell us. >> Hey, Mr. Bur.

[1:54:27] » I will yield the remaining time. Thank you.

[1:54:30] » Mr. Wish Goyak.

[1:54:36] » If by we, I I don't mean I don't want the city to try to micromanage this

[1:54:41] thing. I agree with you 110%. We we've got plenty of things on our plate. I'm

[1:54:47] just more interested in them getting their wheels lined out for themselves

[1:54:51] and if they want to stay as a functioning entity yield.

[1:54:55] » Okay, that was the second round. Um I do want to say a few things. First of all,

[1:55:01] the community foundation was supposed to be set up to help the city of Tony Town

[1:55:06] and we did go to the attorneys. We did ask what we needed to do and we did what

[1:55:11] we were told that we needed to do. Um, and I do think that it would be great

[1:55:16] for Tonnytown to be able to receive funds and help have a foundation help

[1:55:23] us, but that's here and there. But we'll move on um to closing comments.

[1:55:29] Mr. Wagner,

[1:55:33] » Mr. Graves, >> none.

[1:55:35] » Mr. Montes, >> thanks for coming out tonight. Uh,

[1:55:38] everybody enjoy your evening. >> Mr. starting.

[1:55:42] » Well, I do appreciate the people that showed up and uh there was a couple

[1:55:47] comments about stupid and stupid does and you can't fix stupid, but as I

[1:55:52] recall the movie, Bubba Gump Shrimp Company did awfully well, so I guess you

[1:55:56] can fix stupid. So, I move on, >> Mr. Burrus.

[1:56:00] » Thank you, Madam Mayor. I wanted to thank those that uh that came to the

[1:56:04] Catholic Church St. Joseph's last week. Uh a week ago tonight, uh ADQ came uh to

[1:56:10] hear public comments uh regarding the um uh issuance or lack thereof of an air

[1:56:17] permit uh for Waste Management's Eco Vista landfill. Um unfortunately there

[1:56:23] uh there weren't as many people as as we've seen there in the past. The upshot

[1:56:27] is the people that did speak spoke passionately, intelligently. They did a

[1:56:31] great job. Um, unfortunately, I walked away feeling like ADQ doesn't really

[1:56:36] care much about what we had to say and that instead it was more uh of them

[1:56:41] going through some motions that they had to do legally. Um, but at any rate, um,

[1:56:47] I'm I'm thankful for those that did come to speak and uh, and to share their um,

[1:56:53] their opinions. That is all. Thank you, >> Mr. Bushko.

[1:56:57] » Thank you, Mayor. U, thank you to Mr. Ferrar for serving as our

[1:57:01] parliamentarian. Uh, and thank you for kind of lining our wheels out. Uh, we're

[1:57:06] we're going to get better at this as we go. Um, I've ran across something in the

[1:57:10] news uh that I figured was um important to bring out. Northwest

[1:57:16] Arkansas needs $ 1.5 billion in wastewater investment. So, um, you know,

[1:57:22] with our growth, um, you know, that's some of the bad news that comes along

[1:57:27] with it. But um anyway, we'll end on a positive note with that. Thanks to

[1:57:32] everybody for coming out. Uh hopefully see you in a couple of weeks.

[1:57:35] » Okay, Mr. Parr. >> I have no comments. Everybody have a

[1:57:39] good night. >> All right. Same. I hope you guys all

[1:57:42] have a good evening and uh all in favor of a journ say I.

[1:57:47] » All right.

Tontitown City Council Meeting 09/01/2026

Transcript