[1:10] Good evening, everyone. Welcome to Chapel Hill Town Council's April 24th meeting. We are pleased to have you join us. Now that the pandemic is over, we no longer do a roll call, but Council Member Sharp has asked to be excused for a prior family commitment, so she will not be joining us. This evening, we have three items on our agenda for discussion.

[1:32] Our first item is a public forum relating to the use of the town's 2020-24-25 community development block grant funds.

[1:43] That will be followed by a presentation and requested approval of our affordable housing funding plan.

[1:50] And the final item is an update and discussion of rewriting our rules, the initiative for rewriting the town's land use management ordinance or LUMO for short.

[2:00] Before we get underway, I do have a couple of announcements to share.

[2:05] First, staff has asked that we highlight ongoing and upcoming opportunities for public input on the work we're doing.

[2:12] Relating to downtown, we are accepting input on the downtown public right-of-way plan until May 3rd.

[2:18] We want to hear your thoughts on how we can make downtown more vibrant and accessible.

[2:23] If you haven't done so already, please go online.

[2:27] there's a project white board where you can share your thoughts.

[2:31] Plus, for people with questions or comments about the land use

[2:33] management rewrite, our planning staff will be at the farmers market this Saturday, April 27th,

[2:40] and there will be a public information meeting next Monday, April 29th at the library.

[2:46] For those looking for something fun to do this weekend, the north side festival, which will have...

[2:55] The North Side Festival is here right now, kidding. Next this weekend, it'll include live

[3:02] entertainment dancing in the street, old school games, and great food, and it's happening

[3:06] this Saturday. Last but not least, from the Council calendar, Council has two meetings coming

[3:12] up. We'll hold a special meeting on Friday morning at 830 to discuss a bond referendum,

[3:18] And our next regular meeting is scheduled for Wednesday May 1st and town manager, do we have a location for our bond discussion on Friday?

[3:26] Or we still

[3:29] live very room B. So council also for you. Come to room B of the library on Friday morning

[3:39] To two council members does anyone have an announcement to share. Yeah

[3:45] Good evening everyone. I just wanted to let community members know

[3:50] that on May 3rd correct me, houses now March, is that correct? Yes, okay. So thank you May 4th

[4:04] starting at the Peace and Justice Plaza at 2 and then moving to the Hargrave Center.

[4:11] Come out, show your support for 30% AMI in below.

[4:18] This is a collaboration of community members, partners, and an opportunity for community

[4:26] to take to the streets, lift their voices around what's important to them, and also be

[4:33] in community with one another.

[4:34] See you there.

[4:37] are there announcements, Council Member Barry?

[4:42] Thank you. I want to remind everyone, or share with you, if you haven't heard, that the 24th annual

[4:48] military council community dinner is taking place on Sunday, April 28th, that's the Sunday

[4:54] want to clock at McDougall Middle School. It's always a wonderful time.

[5:00] Thank you. Okay. Next, we invite members of the public to comment on items not on the printed agenda or to bring a petition forward.

[5:12] We want to remind our audience that public input is important to us for members of the public in attendance and wishing to speak.

[5:19] Please sign up with the town clerk at the table on the left side of Council Chambers towards the front of the room.

[5:27] If you're here to speak on a specific item, there will be a presentation on the item followed by Council clarifying questions and then public comment.

[5:34] So those are items on the printed agenda.

[5:38] If there are individuals in the audience who wish to bring a formal petition tonight, our practice is to receive petitions and refer them to the mayor and manager.

[5:47] we don't as a rule take action on petitions at this time.

[5:52] So now the mayor pretend will call two names.

[5:55] The first person should come to the podium.

[5:58] The second person is effectively on deck.

[6:00] So if you are in a seat that is in the middle of a row

[6:03] or the back of the chambers, please come on up and sit towards the front

[6:07] so that it's easy for you to come forward when it's your turn.

[6:10] Finally, I want to remind everyone that we want everyone to be heard

[6:14] to feel comfortable when they are at the podium. So please refrain from commenting or clapping.

[6:21] Okay, our first speaker is Jane Hathaway, followed by George Barrett.

[6:39] Okay, I start.

[6:41] I want to thank you members of the town council for your time and consideration

[6:47] and allowing us to come forward and speak. As director of the furniture project,

[6:53] of Orange County for 13 years, I am here to speak for the invisible but essential people

[7:00] of Chapel Hill. Past, present, and future. These folks have in our suffering due to the lack

[7:08] of affordable housing. A family of six, where the father resides in the men's shelter,

[7:15] Father mother and four children, excuse me, our at home start are waiting for housing for two years before they can live together to be a family.

[7:28] I disabled and middle-aged gentlemen.

[7:30] Excuse me, terrible allergies.

[7:34] lived at the I-F-Celter for three years before being placed in the second story apartment.

[7:42] He walks with a locker and he was put on a second story apartment.

[7:47] A gourmet chef at one of the Chapel Hill's finest restaurants spends over $75 a week

[7:55] for Uber to take him to a small apartment which is far away from where he works where he sleeps on the floor.

[8:04] I have 1265 more stories like this, including a predominant, long-time citizen of Chapel Hill who became very ill and spent five days in the emergency department where he passed away.

[8:22] This was due to the fact that there was not enough staff service people and aides to reopen an entire floor of beds in the hospital.

[8:35] When one enters Chapel Hill, I'm informed of Boulevard, one is struck by the signs and more signs of luxury apartments.

[8:44] But what do these people that we talk about see, not for you, you can't afford this, go away, don't bother coming in.

[8:59] So how could anyone in good conscience even begin to think of delaying or underfunding critically needed affordable housing?

[9:11] because everyone, all citizens of Chapel Hill, suffer.

[9:17] Thank you for your time.

[9:19] Thank you.

[9:21] George Barrett, followed by Ryan Lavali.

[9:27] Good evening, Mayor in Council.

[9:29] My name is George Barrett, and I'm the executive director of the Marion Sheet Jackson Center,

[9:33] as well as the co-chair of the Orange County Affordable Housing Coalition.

[9:38] The Orange County Affordable Housing Coalition,

[9:40] It urges you to put forward a bond now in 2024.

[9:45] One that supports the economic and racial justice through a serious investment in affordable

[9:52] housing.

[9:53] Last month, you saw it has dozens of folks here and some folks who are here today came

[9:58] in solidarity of this asset.

[10:00] As well as submitted a petition of over 360 members of our community, where demanding and asking for affordable housing now.

[10:08] We stand ready to support the town's bond education campaign and GOT be efforts this fall during a high visibility election season because the opportunity is now.

[10:19] We recognize that the council is balancing multiple priorities to determine bond categories and amounts, and we also know that a $10 million bond for affordable housing is woefully insufficient.

[10:28] The town's recently adopted affordable housing plan requires an investment of 50 million

[10:33] over the next five years and we need at least 35 million in the form of bond funding in order

[10:39] to reach that goal. If the next bond is not to be considered until 2032, it is incontriable

[10:45] that we wouldn't invest more now to one of the most urgent and desperate needs in our community.

[10:50] We know that it hurts our whole community if we lack the resources to secure land opportunities

[10:55] to build more affordable units or to preserve no properties to prevent further

[11:00] displacement of people of color and those with the lowest incomes. The 10 million

[11:03] currently suggested with only support 25 percent of housing units in the

[11:07] pipeline. With bond funds limited to lesion road and a single

[11:11] LITEC project, our external housing partners will struggle to deliver urgently needed

[11:15] units. Jappel Hill has been successful in investing and needed affordable housing

[11:21] projects the past several years with previous bond funds.

[11:25] We must keep the momentum going,

[11:27] especially at a time when the cost of housing

[11:30] makes living here out of reach for so many people

[11:32] who are so integral to this town.

[11:35] The affordable housing investment strategy was approved unanimously

[11:38] by many members of this council.

[11:41] New council members were elected on a platform supporting

[11:43] affordable housing.

[11:45] This is your opportunity to put decisive action behind your words.

[11:49] We understand that these decisions are complicated

[11:51] and that swift leadership is needed to move this forward for 2024. We're behind you and we're

[11:57] counting on you to lead. So we are calling on you to include $35 million for affordable housing

[12:03] and a bond on an November 2024 ballot. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Ryan LeBally followed by Ian Scott.

[12:14] Good evening, Mayor and council. My name is Ryan LeBally. I'm excited to be here advocating

[12:20] with other affordable housing advocates and home preservation partners on behalf of the $50 million

[12:25] housing bond being placed on the ballot in 2024 and for at least $35 million of that to be

[12:31] designated for affordable housing. I'm excited because I'm also celebrating my 10th year here in Orange

[12:36] County and over those 10 years I've seen the willingness creative thinking and collaborative spirit

[12:41] of our citizens jurisdictions and housing partners that ensure we will rise to the occasion

[12:46] past the bond and begin using this opportunity without pause. I believe this is an opportunity

[12:51] this community is ready to seize now. It is also an opportunity that is severely needed. I'm

[12:57] a community occupational therapist and one of the co- coordinators at the Orange County Home

[13:00] Preservation Coalition. We work to coordinate resources and partners to provide necessary and health

[13:06] promoting home repairs. We also aggregate data across Orange County regarding needs for these services.

[13:11] In Chapel Hill coalition partners are currently working on 18 different homes.

[13:17] However, just this year we have a wait list of 56 low-income Chapel Hill families who need repairs.

[13:23] The average wait time for repairs is between 1.5 and 2 years.

[13:27] I will add that there have been many homes that we simply could not find solutions for

[13:30] or were unable to serve due to complications or lack of appropriate funding mechanisms.

[13:36] So this number is likely lower for how many more we could have served with more funding.

[13:40] The minimum amount of money needed to complete the repairs of these 56 homes is over $500,000.

[13:47] 76% of the families on our Orange County wait list have older adults in the home,

[13:52] and greater than 75% of our families of color, with a large portion of those being black families.

[13:57] To serve these families, we need more funds, but also we need flexible funds that can assist with costly and complicated repairs.

[14:04] The housing bond will provide immense opportunity for the collaborative spirit and creative thinking

[14:08] of our partners to drive more home repairs and affordable living across Chapel Hill.

[14:14] We need to be able to preserve our current housing stock to ensure the longevity and stability

[14:19] of our communities, particularly in facilitating aging and community for elders, stable housing

[14:24] for people with disabilities, and racial equity across the housing sector.

[14:28] I also partner with the Orange County Department on Aging, in each friendly initiatives

[14:32] in co-chair the master aging plan housing work group.

[14:35] In this work we evaluate our county senior housing.

[14:37] Thank you for voting. Yes on the Legion Road property. It is a much needed addition to our senior housing stock and contributes to the master aging plans goals achievement.

[14:48] We see our commitment. We see your commitment to our elders and we really appreciate it. With that said, we still need more affordable housing for elders. According to the 2023 Orange County senior housing.

[15:00] The affordable independent options for elders in Chapel Hill are still scarce, and those that our present have weightless of 30 to 40 people, often requiring years to get into those options.

[15:11] For long-term residents, older adults and people with disabilities, communities of color, and more we need affordable housing, and we need it now. Thank you.

[15:20] Ian Scott, followed by Travis Wayne.

[15:25] Good evening, Mayor. Members of council. I mean, Scott, I'm proud to serve the 600 plus members of the Chamber for a greater chance.

[15:32] Chapel Hill Carbro is their vice president of advocacy.

[15:35] I'm here tonight to encourage you to push forward and put a bond referendum on the 2020

[15:40] for ballot. We understand the added time pressure that puts on tough decisions that still have to be

[15:46] made, but we believe the advantages of acting this year outweigh in the advantages to waiting.

[15:54] We also ask you to allocate the most funding practical in that referendum for affordable housing.

[16:00] We recognize there are many pressing needs, public safety, facilities, mobility, infrastructure,

[16:09] they all need funding, they all have real impacts to our community and our quality of life,

[16:14] balancing a $50 million bond package among those many priorities is indeed a tall order,

[16:20] but as many of our friends in the affordable housing coalition have articulated so well over

[16:25] recent weeks. Our communities need is huge. We need affordable housing and employers of

[16:32] every size and in every sector of our economy agree that affordable housing is a top priority.

[16:38] They see firsthand the challenges their colleagues face finding housing nearby that they can afford.

[16:44] Chambers government affairs team has had a chance or a committee rather has had a chance

[16:48] to be briefed on Chapel Hills affordable housing plan. They found it to be specific, feasible, compelling.

[16:55] We know that the necessary funding for that plan will not come entirely from this bond.

[17:02] But as you prioritize projects, we hope you'll air on the side of putting more money

[17:06] in for affordable housing any time there's a close call.

[17:11] Please go for the bond referendum in 2024 and please go as big as you can for affordable

[17:15] housing.

[17:16] Thank you.

[17:17] Thank you.

[17:18] Let's see, we have Travis Way followed by Renucasol.

[17:26] Hi, my name is Travis, I'm a chap of Hill Tenant.

[17:30] I'm also here to talk to you about $50 million affordable housing bond,

[17:33] or what hopefully can be with $50 million affordable housing bond.

[17:38] Mostly I want to talk about how it's easy to get lost in the sea of rows and columns.

[17:43] It's easy to get lost in a long list of town priorities and community needs, good causes and all that.

[17:49] there are fire stations that need repair. There are side paths that need building

[17:53] and facilities to maintain. These are all important. We do need sidewalks, crossing parts of

[17:59] town on foot can feel like playing leapfrog. We do need funding for public facilities, especially

[18:05] those that serve our most vulnerable community members. We do need more parks since parks are both

[18:11] important ecosystems and some of the only places left in society where people can gather without

[18:15] spending a dime. But I want you to remember something. Sidewalks don't mean much, if the

[18:20] people who were going to use them are forced out of town.

[18:24] Peel public facilities can be spotless, but if most of us who are using them get displaced, then

[18:29] they're going to stay spotless. And parks, parks are treasured when they're used diversely by many

[18:34] different kinds of people, living different kinds of lives. If Chapel Hill tenants continue to

[18:39] have far fewer homes than we need, even as landlords with LLCs and Airbnb's displaced one family

[18:44] after another, then the only people left to create stories and memories in those fancy parks

[18:50] will have money. Lots of it. There's a Chinese word, Beethoven. It means to be emptied,

[18:56] like a void. People, gone, where once people were. I'm talking to you about displacement because

[19:03] I've been displaced. I grew up in a family that hid all of our life savings under a mattress just

[19:08] so we could hit the road at any given time. Lay on lords kicked us out of one unit after another.

[19:13] We tried to make an oasis out of one unit, planted a little garden inside a neighborhood,

[19:18] driven with concentrated poverty, but then we had to move in with two other generations of

[19:21] family because just keep a group over, we over our heads. All of this means that I've lost

[19:27] track of the amount of times I've been displaced and how many homes I've lost and all of those homes

[19:32] I can't return to because as tenants, we don't have the right to return to the homes that we lose.

[19:38] Funding affordable housing is not enough to solve the tenants' crisis. For that, we got to make

[19:42] an actual human right. No, not something to extract profit from. You need to set aside far more

[19:48] units than 15%. But allocating the bond money to affordable housing and putting it forward now

[19:54] in 2024 will help dramatically. More Chapel Hill tenants will have home.

[20:00] More people will be housed. So when you look at that sea of rose and columns, I want you to see something other than that list of competing priorities. I want you to see people.

[20:09] I want you to see the $15 million bond for what it is, choosing sides. I want you to see a clear choice between affordable housing and everything else, between supporting tenants and not supporting tenants, between displacing people and not displacing people, between being part of the problem versus being part of the solution.

[20:28] We need to allocate at least $35 million to affordable housing.

[20:33] Thank you.

[20:34] Thank you.

[20:36] Renukasal followed by Tom Fed.

[20:40] Do I press the ring?

[20:42] Oh, sorry.

[20:42] Thank you.

[20:44] I'm Renukasal.

[20:45] Marcella Twamley.

[20:46] And I are petitioning the town council for $7.75 million bond for Parks and Recreation Department projects.

[20:53] We are the chair and vice chair of the Parks Commission.

[20:55] For years, the commission has been discussing a bond as the most effective way to cover all

[21:00] the deferred maintenance and move forward with new facilities.

[21:04] We learned about the potential 2024 bond at our last meeting and we didn't get the opportunity

[21:09] to discuss it as a group since Council will be deciding this soon.

[21:12] This is why Marcell and I are submitting this position on our own instead of it coming from

[21:16] the commission.

[21:17] The penny for parks fund is helpful.

[21:20] However, it will take over eight years to get through the existing list of projects.

[21:23] On Monday could give us a chance to catch up.

[21:27] The much needed projects include a splash pad,

[21:30] which has been on the 2013 Parks Master Plan for over 10 years.

[21:34] Additionally, our community submitted a petition with over 1,000 signatures

[21:38] that demand is there.

[21:40] At the side of the splash pad, we'll also need to include restrooms and more parking spaces.

[21:45] This will cost about 1.2 million.

[21:47] Pickleball is growing.

[21:49] Many towns are creating pickleball complexes to meet the demand.

[21:52] Our Pickleball community plans on raising half the funds needed and the town can match with the other half.

[21:58] This will cost us 800,000.

[22:00] The planning from Mark Morgan Creek East Greenway has been completed.

[22:04] Now we need the money to build it.

[22:06] Constructing this Greenway will connect schools, shopping, parks, health care opportunities, and UNC.

[22:12] This is expected to cost 4.7 million.

[22:15] The restrooms of Cedar Falls Park are on a septic system and we need to connect it to Wasa.

[22:20] The current onsite sewage system facility was designed for a part built in the 1970s and the

[22:26] rest room was built in 2012. We have wanted to make this connection for years. Usage at the

[22:32] park is increased partially due to the synthetic turf field replacement project and that number is

[22:38] expected to grow. Especially after the reconstruction of the tennis courts, the parking lot must also

[22:44] expanded and paved to make the site more accessible. This will cost $700,000. The parking lot

[22:51] in sidewalks at Hargrave needs to be made ADA compliant. The project is especially important

[22:56] since the tennis court repairs will be completed this summer and the demand at this site will increase

[23:00] this will cost $150,000. Also the pool at Homestead Park is leaking. It will cost $200,000 in

[23:08] and new PVC pool liner to fix this.

[23:11] All these needs add up to 7.5 million.

[23:14] Once the parks and recreation department catches up

[23:16] on these deferred projects, the pennies for parks tax

[23:19] can be used to make our parks system something

[23:21] which we can be proud.

[23:22] In 2022, Raleigh, Greensboro,

[23:25] Matthews, and Concord past parks bonds.

[23:28] Many capital hall residents notice

[23:30] what our neighbors are doing with their parks

[23:31] and have wondered why we can't do the same thing.

[23:34] A 7.75 million dollar bond will catch up

[23:37] all of this and fix a park system. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Tom Finn, followed by

[23:42] you vet Matthews.

[23:49] Hi, good evening. My name is Tom Finn. I've been a resident of Chapel Hill for

[23:53] 17 years and I'm also a volunteer at the IFC. I stand before you encouraging to put the referendum

[24:02] in September or this fall. With the hopes of 35 million we'll go to affordable housing.

[24:08] A lot of good arguments have already been made this evening, I know you're aware of the equity component and how affordable housing, how important that is for the equity, I also understand that there's an ecological component to it, we know there's also to folks who have come here into the chapel every day to do the work that they did.

[24:29] I personally know my wife is a teacher in this district and I know that teachers in this district cannot afford to live here.

[24:35] so you've heard all these arguments before, but I'm going to say something much more basic to you,

[24:40] and that's you have said that you cared about this, about this issue. I was said,

[24:44] thankfully this fall, most of you weren't in front of this panel, and everybody who was on the

[24:49] panel said they cared about this issue. And so if you care about it, there's no reason why you

[24:54] would ask the public to vote on it. And so again, I'm asking you to put the referendum on for

[24:58] $50,035,000 for Ford.

[25:00] Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Matthews followed by Jacqueline Rome.

[25:09] Glad to hear the button and y'all got it.

[25:14] Okay. I'm going to say what's up, and if you don't say it back, I won't feel welcome.

[25:20] What's up? Hi. My name is Eva Matthews. I'm the OCO of the Community and Parliament Fund.

[25:26] and that is the Office and Community Organizer.

[25:29] And I'm here to speak on behalf of 30%

[25:32] in my envelope.

[25:34] When people are here and we're talking about a photo

[25:37] of my housing, our population seems to get lost.

[25:41] Because when you're saying a photo of my housing

[25:43] could be an 80% it could be a 765040, but we are at 30.

[25:48] So I want to be really specific about 30% in your mind.

[25:53] I've been in this space many times.

[25:55] I don't know, I know some folks who know me, but I want to make clear to you about this population,

[26:01] how we're suffering, how we don't have any housing being built for this particular income.

[26:08] We are the people who are on the streets, we are the people who are living day-to-day in tech communities,

[26:13] we are the people who are living in their cars, now fair y'all, y'all don't need to do the right thing.

[26:19] I know they ask it for 35 million. I fell among that. You know it's always good. I want the 50 million. I think we deserve the 50 million.

[26:29] You know what I'm saying? But a lot of times you guys have always said we are not being seen.

[26:35] I know it's not true because I got a big mouth and I'm always here when I can be here.

[26:40] But the thing that concerns me most is the fact that if you're going to ask me what we need to do with this

[26:49] and you're going to give 35 million to affordable housing, 30% AMI and below.

[26:57] Then the rest of that 50 million can y'all like split that up with funding for CEO.

[27:04] Funding for PV homes, they build and funding for IFC so they can fix that shelter.

[27:11] Funding for community empowerment, not community empowerment,

[27:15] Parliament incorporated the lowest value because a lot of this stuff is kind of like falling down

[27:21] on the West Old. If y'all want to spend the money the rest of it all together, I think that

[27:28] this is what we should do with the band. Which I'll thank. Do the right thing.

[27:35] Thank you. Jacqueline Rome followed by Betty Curry.

[27:40] Um, we didn't want to hear how y'all doing that, but um, I stand up with a part man, and they didn't

[27:49] get nothing to open. My house, my apartment, the ceiling almost coming down, the, um,

[27:58] ain't been painted since I've been in a binner through to some of you, um, and then they don't

[28:05] They don't try to do nothing.

[28:09] For I brought me, they don't read model of everywhere else.

[28:12] We ain't got I brought me with model again.

[28:15] We got roaches all like that.

[28:17] So I was y'all could just do something about what would have brought me.

[28:22] Because I'm tired of living like that.

[28:23] And I'm paying my rent.

[28:24] I'm doing exercise for all to do.

[28:26] But I need them to come in there and remodel them.

[28:29] Because we say not that roaches and all this stuff.

[28:33] We can't even get them.

[28:36] I'm hoping that y'all have money enough to do that.

[28:39] Thank you.

[28:41] Thank you.

[28:44] Betty Curry followed by Quentin Harper.

[28:50] Good evening everyone.

[28:53] I'm here in support of the knee of a 35 million dollar bond.

[28:59] If not more, in particular for the lower income families that live in this community,

[29:04] which we, to my understanding, have 12 public housings in Chapel Hill and one in Carborough,

[29:13] Oakwood, and I know for a fact, the conditions of all those units are totally outdated.

[29:23] Some of the units has been there 37 years, 40 years, and my biggest advocate was Elliott Woods,

[29:31] You know, playgrounds, they took the playground, but it didn't put one back, but my concerns

[29:40] are we take ourselves as a diverse community and that we're for all, but that's not

[29:45] sure.

[29:47] Our people is in the woods behind the scenes, never acknowledged, and this money would be a

[30:00] Such as empowerment, such as orange candidate, homelessness, such as IFC, all the organizations that people who are struggling are punited to.

[30:12] And always, always, always, we don't have the money. So when are we going to have the money?

[30:19] When are we going to have the money to house and to take care of those people that make $30,000 or less?

[30:28] as opposed to those who make 80,000 to 100,000.

[30:33] We did not fit in those categories, and I'm a little tired of people building for those folks

[30:41] and neglecting the folks that are victims of the policies.

[30:45] We are victims of the policies, and nobody's willing to make a change.

[30:51] We talk about it, but we don't do it.

[30:54] So I would like to see all these plans that we have, we put them in practice and give

[31:02] reparations to those families who deserve reparations in this community.

[31:06] And I look forward to seeing that being done.

[31:10] Thank you.

[31:12] Thank you.

[31:14] Quint and Harper followed by Darren Campbell.

[31:25] Good evening, Mayor.

[31:26] And council.

[31:28] It's a pleasure to be here with you this evening.

[31:30] So my name is Clinton Harper. I am a resident of Carboro, and I work as the Executive Director with Peeley Holmes.

[31:38] I'm here today asking you to support the placing the bond on the ballot in 2024 and allocating $35 million to the affordable housing.

[31:53] I'm recalling the affordable housing houses now questionnaire, which a lot of folks supported

[32:00] a bond, as well as two sets for housing, so I'm really glad that that was brought up tonight.

[32:07] And my phone did exactly what I was going to do.

[32:14] So I really do understand that there are a lot of competing interests, and this is tough.

[32:18] I'm trusting that you will count as one of your most pressing interests, people having a roof over their head and housing that is dignified and affordable.

[32:33] Without significant government investments, the number of people who are homeless will continue to increase and the gap of affordable housing units will widen and continue to fall drastically.

[32:46] below the need.

[32:59] I'm asking you to consider that equity looks like putting the bond for

[33:03] the 2024 ballot with 35 million.

[33:15] I'm asking you to consider that equity looks like

[33:17] putting the bond on the 2024 ballot with $35 million earmark for affordable housing

[33:24] and letting voters decide. This is a step towards advancing equity because it will enable

[33:30] on profits and community members to access the funding, to help the needs of our community.

[33:39] In the face of being denied access to these opportunities historically, in my role as

[33:44] Executive Director for P.V. Holmes is in the court to share that roughly 69% of the cost

[33:51] to build the three homes supporting people transitioning out of housing insecurity,

[33:56] Hill Street in Carboro has come from Orange County in Carboro. That support has been

[34:02] critical in building these homes. Homes where residents pay no more than 30% of their

[34:08] income on rent and it is also enabled us to increase our stock of deeply affordable housing

[34:14] from 7 to 10. I want to skip and ask you to imagine

[34:24] a vision in which we can dream of wild

[34:29] And that is to build a tiny home community.

[34:33] Four folks who are transitioning out of housing insecurity,

[34:36] who have been veterans and who are elders.

[34:41] The support that this money can provide will allow us to continue moving in that direction.

[34:48] Thank you.

[34:51] Darren Campbell, and that is the last name I have on my list.

[34:54] Thank you.

[35:02] Hello, my name is Darren Campbell. Thank you for allowing me to speak again. I have faced y'all quite a few

[35:09] time. And I have to mirror, I have to echo the feelings of a lot of the people who shared

[35:16] her already, and that this bond issue is pivotal in creating equity and diversity in Chapel Hill.

[35:29] As the stands now, they divide growing every day between people who can't afford to live in this town.

[35:42] This bond will go a long way in creating spaces for people to shorten that gap.

[35:52] There are, as you, as well, where there's already, there are three projects already

[36:02] slated for work to begin this year.

[36:08] This having this bond issue on the ballot and allocating at least 35 million to affordable

[36:16] housing.

[36:18] That money will go, will be what is needed to get these projects moving.

[36:27] And those projects stand to bring quite a few people.

[36:32] At least, I don't know exactly now, to bring quite a few people out of being

[36:37] how they're insecure within the next two years to having a place that they can

[36:46] self pride, some sense of stability, and that's the ability in and of itself is what makes

[36:54] people feel safer in this town. Makes people more apt to be able to feel comfortable

[37:02] walking the sidewalks, going to the parks, playing pickleball, going fishing,

[37:09] whatever they choose to do because that's one left thing that's on their mind that they have to

[37:14] about the day to day trauma of where they're going to put the hit, later heads down.

[37:21] And that for a lot of the marginalized people is either day to day stress. It's not knowing

[37:27] where they're going to lay their head down. This bond issue is pivotal and I know that I've faced

[37:35] some of you before I spoke with some of you one-on-one, and you have said that you share my passion

[37:43] for this. You said that you were interested in it. You said that you care about the people of this town.

[37:48] This is the time that we stop talking about how much we care about these people and we put some

[37:53] boots to action and we do something.

[37:58] I'm just one guy. I got allowed not enough, but my mouth's

[38:01] able to so loud. And I thank you for allowing me to speak just right now, but please.

[38:08] Thank you.

[38:11] Thank you.

[38:12] Okay.

[38:12] That's the end.

[38:13] Is there anyone else?

[38:16] Okay.

[38:18] Council.

[38:19] I need a motion to receive and refer.

[38:22] A petition.

[38:23] So moved.

[38:24] Move by council member.

[38:26] Very second by council member.

[38:28] Miller Fushi.

[38:29] All those in favor.

[38:30] Please say aye.

[38:31] Aye.

[38:32] Aye.

[38:32] Any opposed?

[38:34] Motion passes eight to zero.

[38:38] That brings us to our consent agenda. Council members earlier today, we had a request to pull item 3, which is the new traffic calming policy, and to bring it back for some questions and discussion at our May 1st meeting. Additionally, we've added item 3.1 relating to purchase of property near North Forest Hills Park.

[39:03] So I am looking for a motion to adopt resolution R1 as amended to include item 3.1 authorizing

[39:10] the town manager to execute option to purchase real property near Piny Mountain Road adjacent

[39:16] to the current North Forest Hills Park and remove item 3 the traffic commonplace.

[39:21] So moved.

[39:25] move by council member Ryan second and by council member Barry all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed please say aye motion passes eight to zero.

[39:39] All right.

[39:41] Now, we are on to item number four, which is a public forum, on use of the 2024-2025

[39:50] community development block grant funds and Emily Holt, our affordable housing manager, is here to walk us through.

[40:04] Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Emily Holt, the Affordable Housing Manager, on the Affordable

[40:09] Housing and Community Connections team. The purpose of tonight's public forum is to receive

[40:15] public comment on the recommended community development block grant or CDBG funding plan for next year.

[40:22] No council action is required tonight.

[40:26] As you can see on this timeline, we are midway through the

[40:35] held annually. And after the first public forum last fall, we accepted and reviewed applications

[40:40] and are now holding the second to receive feedback from the public and from council on the

[40:45] draft funding plan. We will continue accepting comments on the plan through April and council will

[40:50] take action on a final version of the annual plan currently scheduled for June.

[40:56] Annual action plans will be due for submission to HUD this summer.

[41:03] Tonight, I'm going to give you

[41:07] for reviewing projects included in the recommended plan

[41:09] and opening up the forum to hear from the community.

[41:14] So CDBG is a program administered by the U.S. Department

[41:17] of Housing and Urban Development.

[41:20] It was set up by Congress in 1974

[41:22] for the purposes of providing decent affordable housing,

[41:25] creating suitable living environments

[41:27] and expanding economic opportunity.

[41:30] The town of Chapel Hill is designated

[41:31] as what's called an entitlement community,

[41:33] which means it receives an annual allocation

[41:35] of CDBG funds directly from HUD

[41:38] that's typically about $415 to $420,000 a year.

[41:44] I'll project to prove and fund it as part of the CWG Annual Action Plan

[41:48] must address at least one of three national objectives.

[41:51] The primary one is to benefit low and moderate income households,

[41:55] which is those earning less than 80% of the area median income,

[41:58] which right now is about 85,000 for a household of four.

[42:02] The other two are to aid in the prevention or elimination of slum or blight,

[42:06] So for example, an acquisition of a condemned building or to meet an urgent need, which is rare and typically associated with a natural disaster.

[42:17] In addition, projects must support the council's strategic goals and the goals identified in town plans such as the county wide five year con plan and the affordable housing plan.

[42:26] This year the total CDBG annual action plan allocates 426,563 dollars. This includes an estimated

[42:36] CDBG grant next year of 419,225 dollars as well as about 7,000 dollars in program income

[42:44] that the town receives from previous CDBG projects. In this case, that's a payment on a 20 year

[42:50] CDBG loan that was made in 2008.

[42:55] I will add that this is an estimate,

[42:57] and HUD will announce the actual amount,

[43:00] and so it could change a little bit in June.

[43:04] So before I review the funding plan,

[43:05] I just want to quickly note that there are six eligible activities

[43:08] that CDBG can fund.

[43:09] The most common are acquisition,

[43:11] home ownership assistance,

[43:13] and home rehabilitation or preservation.

[43:16] There are other ones that also include economic development,

[43:19] infrastructure and public facilities,

[43:21] as well as public services.

[43:27] Okay, so this table is hard to read but I will run through in more detail shortly and there's more detail in the packets as well.

[43:35] But generally speaking, we received six applications this year, one which was submitted by the refugee community partnership was not considered for funding because it was submitted late and it's the town's policy not to evaluate late applications.

[43:48] All of the applicants have been previously funded and with the exception of the public services category there was enough money to fully fund all of the applications.

[43:58] So a quick summary after setting aside 20% of the, which is allowed for administrative costs.

[44:04] We are fully funding the affordable housing and economic development projects.

[44:08] We are proposing to fully fund the towns summary youth employment program.

[44:12] And we are proposing to allocate the balance of the 15% public services cap to IFC for homelessness case management.

[44:21] The remaining 140,000 that was not requested would be put towards the neighborhood revitalization fund,

[44:27] which is a flexible pool of funding that is available quickly during the year for affordable housing or community development projects that come up.

[44:35] So, going a little bit more in detail about each application, the recommended plan recommends to fully fund $30,000 to the community home trust to support home buyer assistance for two to three households, as well as nearly 90,000 to rebuilding together of the triangle to support the rehabilitation of at least.

[45:00] Five homes. This also includes admin support to the Orange County Home Preservation Coalition.

[45:06] As mentioned, once the admin and public service caps are removed, there's 140,000 left in funding that would

[45:16] go to

[45:29] report low income refugee farmers develop and grow small agricultural businesses.

[45:35] Their application estimates estimates the funds will support 15 businesses run by 29 refugee

[45:41] farmers and that also is fully funding their request.

[45:46] And finally, the 15% cap on public services activities, which is about $64,000, makes

[45:51] this category of applications more competitive.

[45:55] We recommend fully funding this town's summer youth employment program at $35,000.

[46:00] This program allows us to author-paid part-time employment and various town departments to Chapel Hill youth ages 14 to 18 from low and moderate income households.

[46:10] This year we hope to employ 16 Chapel Hill students.

[46:16] After funding the towns program we recommend applying the remainder of the funds that can be in the public services cap to IFC and that will support one of the three full-time case manager positions that they requested funding for.

[46:29] Their request was for about $140,000.

[46:33] The full-time case manager will help individuals and families experiencing homelessness,

[46:38] access, resources, and secure permanent affordable housing.

[46:44] And so as a reminder tonight, we are asking council to open the public forum and receive

[46:49] public comments on the recommendations for the use of CDBG funds included in the draft 2425

[46:55] annual action planned. Thank you. Council, any questions?

[47:04] Council member Nuller and then

[47:06] Council member Miller for she? Yeah, just for my edification. This is my first time seeing

[47:11] something like this. Could you explain and forgive me if I just missed it? The reasoning behind

[47:18] recommending money for a category in which there was no request versus not fully meeting categories

[47:23] in which requests were made.

[47:28] Can you say which categories you're developing?

[47:31] Yeah, so the chart shows there was nothing requested for neighborhood revitalization, but

[47:35] we recommended 104,000.

[47:36] So that falls under a affordable house, so neighborhood revitalization is a place that

[47:41] you can put money to sit pretty much until it's needed.

[47:45] And since we didn't get any more affordable housing projects,

[47:51] there's we can't put it in

[47:53] There's a cap on the other side.

[47:57] Thank you.

[48:03] Thank you.

[48:04] Um, adhering to CBG, CDBG allocation requirements.

[48:09] Can you tell me how you all in your review of the applications?

[48:13] How your office worked with our DEI office in reviewing these applications?

[48:21] Um, so my understanding is that, um,

[48:25] Our DEI officer sits on the application review committee, and this year staff, typically when there's been more competitive applications, so we have multiple applications vying for a limited amount of pools and everyone can't be fully funded.

[48:41] They have done the initial review and come up with their recommendation and a meeting.

[48:47] And this year, because all of the projects that applied could be fully funded that weren't subject to a cap,

[48:57] staff did the recommendation, delivered it to the application review committee, and they unanimously supported the recommendation.

[49:05] I meant to say that in the presentation.

[49:07] Thank you, and the applicant who was unable to get their application in on time.

[49:14] Did you all have any follow-up to assess any barriers that they had, any kind of assistance because when we're looking at our community partners, capacity can be an issue for some of them, and I'm just wondering what ways are we doing that kind of follow-up and being able to ensure success for potential applicants?

[49:39] I know that this was, I wasn't handling the applications at the time, but I know that there was communication between them and the person receiving the applications about whether to submit it in acknowledgement that it was late and they decided to submit it after that.

[50:00] So, was a assistance given to meet that deadline? I'm not sure if there is.

[50:08] I'll add that we do offer to any applicant for any of our funding sources, a post-application meeting.

[50:15] RCP has applied before and not had issues submitting on time, so this was an unfortunate unusual.

[50:24] circumstance. It is not been an issue in the past, but we would offer to them in any applicant

[50:29] post application meaning to talk about barriers or anything that we could do differently to improve

[50:35] our process. Thank you.

[50:40] Any other questions, council? Okay. Then we'll move to public comment.

[50:49] No. We will not move to public comment. Okay, council, any final comments?

[50:57] Fantastic.

[50:58] We will take action in June, is that correct?

[51:03] That's fine.

[51:04] All right.

[51:05] Thank you very much.

[51:07] Next up, item five.

[51:10] Consider approving the recommended affordable housing funding plan.

[51:14] We have Emily Holt again for a and we have our director of affordable housing

[51:21] and community serving us up.

[51:23] Welcome.

[51:24] Thank you.

[51:25] Mayor and Council, I'm Sarah Venus, Director of Affordable Housing and Community Connections.

[51:30] And I'm joined by Emily Holder, our Affordable Housing Manager to present our Affordable

[51:34] Housing Funding Plan.

[51:37] I'll provide you with very brief background on our application process and the funds that

[51:43] were available to this application cycle.

[51:46] We'll then walk you through the projects that requested funding and our proposed funding

[51:50] plan.

[51:54] This evening, we're asking that Council consider approval of the recommended affordable housing funding plan is outlined in resolution R3 in your packets.

[52:06] The recommended funding plan that's before you this evening would allocate $1.66 million in local funding sources to develop 66 new affordable units and preserve 10 units of affordable housing in the community.

[52:21] About 20% of the units will serve zero to 30% AMI households.

[52:29] These projects also will leverage a significant amount of funding from outside sources

[52:34] over $20 million or 92% of the total project costs.

[52:40] It's also worth underscoring how exciting this is.

[52:43] We had a really great slate of projects that applied for funding and supporting these

[52:48] project will advance councils affordable housing goals and very much align with your complete community vision to create an inclusive community.

[53:01] We put out a call for funding applications in February of this year using our established common funding application that we use for all of our local affordable housing sources.

[53:11] In total, we had up to $2.35 million available total.

[53:17] This amount is more than we had originally anticipated.

[53:21] Thanks to the Community Project funding award

[53:24] that we received just a few weeks ago for the Tanner Branch

[53:27] Trace Project, which allowed us to re-allocate the $1.5 million

[53:32] that the town had originally committed to this project,

[53:35] along with $50,000 dedicated for a 2023 LITEC project that was no longer needed.

[53:44] This year staff reviewed and evaluated the applications rather than the Housing Advisory Board.

[53:50] This change is consistent with the Council approved affordable housing plan recommendations and the Housing Advisory Board's approved charge,

[54:00] which outlines that the Habs role is to identify funding priorities rather than to make specific recommendations about projects.

[54:10] Staff used the scoring rubric that was developed by the Housing Advisory Board to guide our evaluation of funding applications.

[54:21] We received six total applications from our partners totaling $1.7 million.

[54:27] We have provided more details on each of the applications in the recommended funding plan overview that's in your packet.

[54:36] The project seeking funding vary greatly from medium size long-come housing tax credit rental projects to rehab work on a single family home.

[54:47] They generally fall into three categories, new construction, rehabilitation and acquisition.

[54:52] We are recommending fully funding five of the six applications that we received.

[55:00] And Emily will talk more about that when we review our recommended funding plan.

[55:05] Instead of what's been proposed by Habitat for Humanity for the Pine Nulls Home Repair Project, staff proposed that they work with the established county home preservation coalition to develop more cost-effective scope that still meets the family's needs for repair to their home.

[55:25] The renovation budget as proposed for this project exceeds the assess value of the home.

[55:32] This is not a best practice and we believe through our discussions with the home preservation coalition leadership that there are alternative options to be considered prior to the town dedicated funding to support this project.

[55:49] Additionally, we have learned that habitat will not impose any affordability restrictions

[55:54] on this home or any in their existing home repair program.

[55:58] The town would expect to see an affordability restriction in place for rehab project

[56:02] of the scope and amount.

[56:05] Now I'll turn it over to Emily to walk you through the details of our recommended funding

[56:10] plan.

[56:17] Good evening again.

[56:21] So, in the new construction project category, we received one application, which staff are recommending the town fully fund, tap the taff mills group and the community home trust both applied together for funding for the 2025 low income housing tax credit project that council approved a rezoning for last week long leaf trace.

[56:40] The project will create nearly 50 units of affordable housing serving senior households earning 60% of the area needed income or less.

[56:51] The project has received the perfect score on their preliminary tax credit application and if the project receives that award, it will break ground in summer 2025 and will open in winter of 2027.

[57:04] staff are recommending that the town fund two rehab projects. The first request is from community home trust for the repair of a duplex acquired through the town's inclusionary zoning ordinance and a neighborhood completed in 2017.

[57:19] The project would support correcting critical foundation issues in two units occupied by households earning between 80 and 100% AMI.

[57:27] If funded they could start and finish the work within a few months.

[57:31] The second project is a request from a new partner, residential services incorporated to support the renovation of a single family home to create six units for individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

[57:44] The units would be occupied by four households earning below 30% of the area median income and two below 60% of the area median income.

[57:53] If funding construction would be complete by summer of 2025,

[58:00] and finally staff are recommending that the town fund

[58:02] to acquisition projects this year.

[58:05] Empowerment has applied for funding to support the acquisition

[58:08] of an eight unit naturally occurring affordable housing community on

[58:12] Davy Circle.

[58:13] This project received the highest percentage score of all the applicants.

[58:17] All current households are in between 30 and 60 percent,

[58:21] sorry, all current households are in between 30 and 60 percent of AMI

[58:25] and could remain living in their units if acquired.

[58:28] If funded, the project could close by the end of the summer.

[58:31] The town also recommends funding habitat for humanities requests

[58:34] for funding to acquire land out of the North Side Land Bank

[58:37] to build 12 first-scale town homes

[58:39] for the first-time home buyers earning

[58:41] between 30 and 80% of area median income.

[58:45] If funded, the project could close on the acquisition this summer,

[58:48] and units could be completed by spring of 2027.

[58:54] As a reminder tonight, we are asking Council

[58:56] to consider approval of the recommended affordable housing funding plan as outlined in resolution

[59:02] R3.

[59:06] Thank you.

[59:07] Council.

[59:10] Councilmember Nullard followed by Councilmember Miller Fushi.

[59:15] Thanks for this presentation.

[59:16] I have a question about the unmet habitat request.

[59:21] I suspect some of my colleagues have probably seen the same thing which is that they feel

[59:25] strongly that this is the only viable source for this repair and that the

[59:29] an exigent circumstances faced by this family mean that the normal rule of thumb about exceeding

[59:36] assessed value for repair is one that we should contextually disregard in this case.

[59:43] And you mentioned that there is another source of funding you think would be more appropriate

[59:47] or another county partner. Could you describe what precisely it is that they would be drawing

[59:52] on and are you confident that that money is there and available and that they'll be competitive

[59:56] for it. Sure. So what we are reckoning.

[1:00:00] Recommending is that they continue to work with the existing countywide home preservation coalition.

[1:00:06] And there have been lots of conversations about this particular property.

[1:00:12] And that is the structure that the town is supporting.

[1:00:16] We resource that coalition through our CDBG funding.

[1:00:20] And that is a system that's been put in place through our county to try to centralize all requests through that.

[1:00:26] So we are trying to support that structure and encourage habitat to work through that structure

[1:00:34] and the coalition to determine a path forward for this project.

[1:00:42] Councillor Member Miller Miller for she?

[1:00:46] So is it possible then the CDBG funds that we were just looking at and the allocation for affordable housing

[1:00:55] that category that you all set aside those funds are you saying that that is potentially a funding

[1:01:03] resource that they would be able to tap into. Potentially that's this that is our resource that

[1:01:09] we used to support the coalition. Okay and it could be that there are additional sources needed

[1:01:15] but I think the interest is in trying to channel everything through that existing structure. Thank you.

[1:01:23] Council Member Stegmond?

[1:01:28] Just to help.

[1:01:29] I'm just going to begin.

[1:01:30] I think in addition to that, there would be, I think, the recommendation is also

[1:01:35] for there to be further conversation about whether the proposed approach to rehabbing the

[1:01:41] house is the best and most cost effective one.

[1:01:47] And just to clarify the affordability restrictions.

[1:01:52] And so if I'm understanding it correctly,

[1:01:54] you're saying that kind of aesthetically,

[1:01:58] we could decide tonight to cover that request.

[1:02:04] But then the family could sell the house

[1:02:07] a year from now, and that many would kind of,

[1:02:11] it's important money for the family,

[1:02:13] but it would be, sort of, from the time

[1:02:16] it would be going to create housing at that point.

[1:02:19] Yes, there would be no, as proposed there would be no

[1:02:21] affordability restriction on the project, so that is a possibility.

[1:02:27] Thank you.

[1:02:28] Council Member McCullough?

[1:02:32] Michael?

[1:02:38] Two questions.

[1:02:42] Is the town legally able to place the affordability restrictions on this property if we

[1:02:48] help pay to have it renovated slash an addition put on?

[1:02:54] So we usually impose affordability requirements through our performance agreements, as well as sometimes through a deed restriction on the property.

[1:03:07] I'm sorry, is that a yes or a no?

[1:03:09] Yes.

[1:03:09] Okay, thank you.

[1:03:11] The second question is, if we, if we approve this tonight and that addition, that renovation is not in here.

[1:03:22] And can it, and if so, will it, when will it come back to us for us to look at what

[1:03:31] would the other options in terms of additions or renovations or fixing?

[1:03:36] And what would the other options for funding and giving us the opportunity to help give

[1:03:42] this family relief?

[1:03:44] So what your question is what other funding sources could be considered?

[1:03:48] My question is, if we approve this plan tonight without that house being in it,

[1:03:57] when will that, all those questions, all those unanswered questions, once they are answered,

[1:04:05] when will it come back to us such that we can find a way to fund it and alleviate the stress of the family?

[1:04:12] So it could be funded through the Home Preservation Coalition, which evaluates projects.

[1:04:18] If other funding is needed, we do have the Affordable Housing Fund, which we accept requests through that funding source on a rolling basis at any time.

[1:04:29] Or we would likely be releasing another RFP for the development reserve in the summer.

[1:04:35] So there would be multiple opportunities in the short term for them to reapply for funding.

[1:04:43] And will those other options be being explored in the meantime?

[1:04:50] Yes.

[1:04:51] We are recommending that they work through the home preservation course.

[1:04:55] Thank you.

[1:04:57] Council member Berry.

[1:04:58] Thank you.

[1:04:59] Thank you for this.

[1:05:00] Presentation. My question starts with the repairs that are at question. It's my understanding that some of

[1:05:11] these are to correct unpermitted work that has been done. Can you share a little bit more about if there's anything else that we should

[1:05:24] you're aware of that when it's in consideration of this decision?

[1:05:31] A piece of it is demolishing a current addition that was put in and then replacing it with a new one that would be a better would follow regulations and be a better fit for the family.

[1:05:46] Okay, so it's not simply just about the value.

[1:05:51] This decision isn't based simply on the value of the home versus the repair or maybe on this

[1:05:57] reading.

[1:05:57] Our recommendation.

[1:05:59] I mean, I think it's multiple things.

[1:06:01] I mean, I think it's the value, it's the structure that it's preferred to go through a different

[1:06:07] structure, although it's allowable to apply for funding outside of that.

[1:06:15] Thank you.

[1:06:21] I think you answered this, but I'm just going to make sure I understand it.

[1:06:24] you are wanting folks to go through an orange county process, but they are allowed to go through

[1:06:30] this process, but we're trying to get them to go through the orange county process. So could

[1:06:34] you tell me what are we trying to accomplish? Or I guess what,

[1:06:43] I mean, it's not common time,

[1:06:45] but I'll say the deed restriction or the affordability restriction is of interest to me to understand.

[1:06:51] But I am a little confused about what we're asking them to do or how long it would take for them to then get funding should they go through the Orange County process.

[1:07:04] So it's it's not just to clarify it's not an Orange County government led it this is a community coalition that's led by.

[1:07:13] by and who's here and spoke earlier and involves all of the organizations in the county that do rehab work on affordable housing projects.

[1:07:23] And this is a structure that the town has helped support for several years now through our CDBG funding.

[1:07:30] And so the idea is to try to channel rehab projects through that.

[1:07:34] And they meet regularly, they evaluate requests, they determine the sequence, they review the scope.

[1:07:41] There has been a lot of conversation about this one.

[1:07:44] They've determined it does have challenges and that is not necessarily a good fit and it's

[1:07:49] current scope.

[1:07:49] That's why we are encouraging them to go back and work with that team of experts to determine

[1:07:55] a path forward that is cost-effective that still meets the family's need.

[1:08:01] So that is not to say we have funded other preservation projects but typically for small

[1:08:06] we have projects of this kind. We are trying to channel those through that structure.

[1:08:11] Got it. So it's not like they would have to wait for a county level, a county government decision.

[1:08:19] I think it's time for public comment. Council member Ryan will call out the first name and then we'll ask the second person to come down and sit in front to be ready to go.

[1:08:34] Okay, we have Christine Abernathy first followed by Kimberly Sanchez.

[1:08:51] President, but is it okay if we switch order based on the questions we've heard from you?

[1:08:55] It's fine with me.

[1:08:57] Wait.

[1:09:01] I don't mind going first.

[1:09:03] Hello and good evening Mayor and Council.

[1:09:07] First I want to say thank you for your continued support of affordable housing.

[1:09:11] I know it's not an easy job to balance priorities.

[1:09:14] Your continued commitment to increasing affordable housing is not always popular.

[1:09:17] But thank you for the resolve you show on this complex topic.

[1:09:23] You have created numerous affordable housing opportunities for members of this community.

[1:09:28] The President example of being this funding recommendation.

[1:09:31] With my CHD hat, thank you for considering our project,

[1:09:35] and the funding necessary to fix critical foundation issues.

[1:09:39] Thank you also for considering approval to fund long leave trace.

[1:09:42] the tax credit project that CHD is co-developing and was approved by you with lots of positive energy

[1:09:48] last week. Thank you for moving that forward. It was awesome to see expedited review, work first

[1:09:54] hand. It only took about four months. So thank you. Thank you.

[1:10:00] Thank you. Now with my coalition hat on, I want to take this opportunity to note something. The $950,000 recommendation

[1:10:09] for long leave trace is actually, as you may have done the math, a lot more than what was

[1:10:16] originally available $800,000. That is because of the surprise money that we got that also went

[1:10:25] the other tax credit project, which was awesome, however.

[1:10:32] Tax credit projects are prioritized

[1:10:33] by the sound, and that's awesome. But if you'll note, and this is, I think, the best

[1:10:39] example, is that if there's a tax credit project and there are other projects that are

[1:10:46] necessary and needed, which you see in your funding recommendation, that tax credit project is

[1:10:51] and got a lot of hold time of money.

[1:10:54] And without some supplemental funding, like a bond,

[1:10:57] there's not going to be a lot of opportunity

[1:10:59] for other projects to go forward.

[1:11:02] And I really wanted to make that point here as an example,

[1:11:05] because I've listened to a lot of your work sessions,

[1:11:08] and I've heard of the question, what happens

[1:11:11] if we don't do this now?

[1:11:13] And I think this is the best example

[1:11:15] that I can give you.

[1:11:17] And in point out, it's just that if there's

[1:11:20] some additional dollars, then maybe there's a tax credit project, which there are

[1:11:25] the American Legion.

[1:11:29] It's just going to gobble it all up. And so what I'm

[1:11:32] asking is, well, what I'm saying is, thank you. But I'm also with my coalition and my

[1:11:36] CHT had at the same time, asking that you please consider a bond for 2024, and

[1:11:42] as the coalition is asking at the 35 million dollar amount.

[1:11:48] So, thanks again.

[1:11:50] Thank you.

[1:11:53] Okay, Christine Abernathy followed by the Loris Bailey.

[1:12:05] That's fun.

[1:12:06] How have what are works for you guys?

[1:12:11] Hello again.

[1:12:12] So, I'm Ryan LeValien, one of the co-ordinators

[1:12:15] and leadership of the Home Preservation Coalition,

[1:12:18] the Orange County Home Preservation,

[1:12:19] not affiliated with Orange County Government,

[1:12:21] but we work in Orange County.

[1:12:22] And we are a sort of partnership of different home repair

[1:12:26] organizations. And I just want to offer some clarifying comments

[1:12:29] around the particular case that you all are discussing with Habitat's

[1:12:32] proposal. First I want to recognize that this actually did come

[1:12:36] through the coalition to some extent. We discussed various

[1:12:38] options as to how to serve this particular family.

[1:12:42] But given the CDBG sort of standards that we see around the

[1:12:46] general average amount that we're usually allocated through the

[1:12:49] of Chapel Hill, it wasn't a good fit for us to be able to actually use CDBG funds to fix that home

[1:12:55] and the different issues that we're going on there. So this was discussed, but we had sort of

[1:13:00] determined there wasn't a way forward. And then I think because of you know,

[1:13:07] tenaciousness and interests have it had applied for this through a different fund that we

[1:13:12] hadn't actually ever used before for preservation. And so we weren't as in coordination in that moment

[1:13:18] that's probably my fault and that we weren't communicating as much, but really recognizing that

[1:13:24] they were trying to solve a really wicked problem with this particular home. And so I think

[1:13:29] recognizing that and moving forward as we think about how the town funds repairs, typically we

[1:13:35] don't need this much money to do this sort of work. And that's why this is sort of an out of

[1:13:41] situation, out of the typical ways that we're going through these processes. But at the same time,

[1:13:48] And I think it's a really challenging situation for this family.

[1:13:54] And so if we can either think about yes coming through CDBG, but really recognizing that

[1:13:58] we're going to spend a lot more than we would usually spend through CDBG funding or moving

[1:14:04] through this through a different fund in the town, that would also be an option.

[1:14:09] But I just wanted to clarify that there was discussion before Habitat went through this through

[1:14:13] the coalition.

[1:14:14] It's just we had thought there was no way forward and, you know, our assessor, which is the rebuilding together,

[1:14:21] had sort of understood that there wasn't an option with the current funding situation.

[1:14:26] I also want to just speak to the affordability requirement and recognize that when we see that being used in other spaces,

[1:14:36] it disproportionately affects Black families, long-term residents and people who are really interested in wealth retention

[1:14:42] I'm not allowing them to really use those options,

[1:14:46] particularly in rural Orange County.

[1:14:48] We see that as well.

[1:14:49] So I would discourage that use,

[1:14:51] maybe yes, commit to keeping them in the home,

[1:14:54] but not necessarily requiring that affordability clause,

[1:14:58] definitely.

[1:14:59] So that's right, that way.

[1:15:00] Wasn't as clear I didn't write it out.

[1:15:02] Thank you.

[1:15:06] Christine? Okay. And then to lower space. Now you are ready. I'm always ready, but I appreciate

[1:15:14] you honoring a little bit of order. Hi. I'm Christine. I work for the Mary and Chief Jackson Center.

[1:15:22] And I'm speaking to you today in the capacity of someone who really walks side by side with homeowners

[1:15:29] who are in need of repair support, and it's an honor to do it, and it's a challenge.

[1:15:36] And for most homeowners, we are not the first place they call. We're the last place.

[1:15:44] I can't think of anyone who would want to be calling a group of mostly strangers to ask for help

[1:15:52] because they're drowning in significant need and lack of finances to be able to cover it.

[1:15:57] So I'm just, you know, that's a little bit of context of kind of a role that we play for this particular repair and pine needles.

[1:16:05] I know that it was like denied due to like some degree of concern around the investment and that high cost.

[1:16:11] I wanted to provide a little bit of information about the homeowner and some of my perspective.

[1:16:17] So when I talked to the homeowner and I said, what would you like me to share with Council as they're looking at this application?

[1:16:23] she said, Ms. Christine, I don't want to come before anyone else. I'm fine. Please don't worry about me.

[1:16:32] And if you knew her, you would know that that is her outlook, but that is not her specific situation.

[1:16:41] She is a single mom and she has an adult daughter with cerebral palsy who is nonverbal and cannot move independently.

[1:16:50] If you all know the homes in Northside and Pinealls, you know that they're small, so it's a very modest home, and the doorways are not wide enough for her to be able to navigate, moving her daughter around in a wheelchair.

[1:17:03] This homeowner is like five foot nothing, and her daughter is bigger, and she said that it's gotten a lot harder as her daughter has gotten older.

[1:17:10] So, when she came to the coalition about this repair her daughter was 16, her daughter's now 18 and she has to figure out how to fit a hospital bed, a ventilator, where to store the wheelchair that she has trouble using and a lift that she can't actually use but that she would use to lift her daughter up out of bed so that you can get her clothes on, Bay, etc.

[1:17:34] But she's not able to use that in the home because it doesn't fit.

[1:17:37] She's also has to physically lift her daughter every time they need to bathe her to get her into the tub.

[1:17:44] And these are things that no one would want to be enduring,

[1:17:48] and no one would want to have to go to a group of strangers

[1:17:50] or to a group of folks sitting on council to have to try to solve.

[1:17:56] We are here because this is an opportunity for collaboration,

[1:18:00] but it's also an opportunity of not having found

[1:18:03] that way that this can work yet, and so I'll just ask that I know she has said that she

[1:18:10] doesn't want to come before anyone else or over any other repair, but I also just ask that you

[1:18:15] don't leave her behind tonight.

[1:18:18] Thank you. Laura Spayley, followed by Taylor Phillips.

[1:18:26] Good evening.

[1:18:27] Madam Mayor, council members, Mr. Town Manager. My name is Laura Spayley. I'm the Executive Director

[1:18:33] empowerment incorporated. Thank you for allowing me to speak tonight. First I'd like to thank

[1:18:39] you for your support of the peach apartments. These units are for individuals and families

[1:18:45] earning 30% AMI. Thankfully, this time next year those units will be up and would be occupied and

[1:18:52] we all can take a pat ourselves on the back for that. So excited.

[1:18:59] The families and the population

[1:19:01] that mismatch you spoke of before. Empowerment has become to embrace deeply. Those earning 30%

[1:19:08] between 60% and 30% but specifically at the 30% AMI. We want to continue to address low-wealth

[1:19:16] earning populations. Davy Circle is a NOAA project of eight affordable rental units.

[1:19:23] NOAA's by definitions are affordable housing that has no federal subsidy in it. What we do with

[1:19:30] is protect the sanctity and the affordability of the property.

[1:19:36] For Davy Circle, there are eight units with families and individuals living in those affordably now.

[1:19:42] If you know anything about Franklin Street and where Davy Circle is,

[1:19:45] it's a wonderful location for families that work at UNC back and forth to the

[1:19:51] down to the Dollar Tree or to all these, it's a great location

[1:19:55] and when we wouldn't want to lose to a developer.

[1:19:59] Thank you for understanding.

[1:20:00] Standing how important no is are. Funding this project tonight means that these units will become permanently affordable. It also means these families will not be displaced. Supporting no or projects like this, fulfills the council's desire to continue to increase affordable housing for families living between 30 and 60 AMI.

[1:20:24] This is empowerment's first of three normal projects that we're doing.

[1:20:29] This is one of two that we're doing in Chapel Hill.

[1:20:34] This new project and the other one that we are considering on MLK will add approximately 15 to 20 affordable and 2 units to Chapel Hill.

[1:20:44] Thank you.

[1:20:46] Thank you.

[1:20:48] Taylor Phillips and that's the last person I have signed up on this issue.

[1:20:55] Hello, I'm Taylor Phillips, I'm the Home Repair Manager at Habitat for Humanity of Orange County.

[1:21:00] I wanted to come up and kind of lend some context on the construction side of the Pine Old Project.

[1:21:09] The addition that we are proposing be replaced was built in probably the 1960s or 1970s and was kind of a inherently temporary structure when it was built.

[1:21:24] And I would say that it is kind of reached its service life.

[1:21:29] It is done what it needed to do for the cost that it cost to build it way back then.

[1:21:36] In order to ensure that the space that the daughter is living in meets the current code and standards about safety and longevity,

[1:21:52] that is something we have built into our proposal.

[1:21:57] I feel that when we go

[1:21:59] out to houses and we're doing repairs that if those repairs last for three

[1:22:05] five, seven years and the homeowners have permanent problems they are dealing

[1:22:11] with that those needs are not being met. It's just a band-aid fix. It's a patch and I

[1:22:18] I think we should strive to not have to return tones

[1:22:22] that have already been through these kinds of processes.

[1:22:28] So far as the alternative fundings for this kind of project,

[1:22:34] I mean, you heard that CDBG is sort of being recommended

[1:22:36] for something like 72,000 in actual operating costs

[1:22:41] for five homes.

[1:22:43] I don't really see how this would fit into that.

[1:22:46] It's very difficult, fine, it was so far

[1:22:49] as the Orange County Conservation Coalition,

[1:22:52] one of our largest partners, Orange County,

[1:22:55] seems to have put a IATIS on there.

[1:22:59] A pair of program temporarily.

[1:23:03] These larger repairs are really difficult to fund

[1:23:08] and really even get started on with all the discussion.

[1:23:11] There are two years into discussing this home.

[1:23:15] So, I think, from our perspective at Habitat, we have stepped up and will say, we'll do the work.

[1:23:22] I will be doing the work. I'll be onsite doing that work.

[1:23:26] So, I would ask that you reconsider.

[1:23:31] Thank you.

[1:23:33] Thank you.

[1:23:37] I would like to as much as she's comfortable as our town attorney, just to give us any guidance we might need on this

[1:23:47] particular complex topic.

[1:23:51] We're guarding the replacement of the infrastructure.

[1:23:57] Yeah, so it's an essential requirement for the allocation of public affordable housing funding,

[1:24:04] that the town being the public receive and return a guarantee that affordability will be maintained.

[1:24:12] And so that's where we have performance agreements that accompany all of the, you know, every time we provide funding.

[1:24:19] If I'm understanding correctly that there hasn't been an offer or an agreement to do anything to preserve the affordability going forward.

[1:24:29] So I would just caution you that it's a legal concern for me, and it will be a logistical challenge for staff if,

[1:24:42] you know,

[1:24:43] to provide that funding.

[1:24:48] Okay, so Council, moving on to comments and just a reminder that we don't want to necessarily give guidance to staff that then has to be undone.

[1:25:00] Or make things more difficult, but I understand people are where they are. Also, just to remind

[1:25:06] that our staff are usually quite interested in making sure we can do whatever we can do legally.

[1:25:15] So, with that being said, council comments.

[1:25:19] Yes.

[1:25:21] Sorry.

[1:25:23] Councillor Miller, Miller, for you?

[1:25:24] Yeah.

[1:25:24] I'm sorry.

[1:25:25] I know that we're in comment, but with the town attorney, that new information, like,

[1:25:34] break that down for me, public interest money, homeowner gets that

[1:25:44] laid where the goats

[1:25:45] can get it, so to speak.

[1:25:46] What does that mean in terms of like our interests now as a public now that there's affordable housing funds?

[1:25:54] What are the implications for the homeowners?

[1:25:58] I'm not sure.

[1:26:00] So if they decide to go into it agreement, what are the implications then in terms of public interest?

[1:26:07] Well, this is affordable housing funding.

[1:26:09] And this is actually the situation regarding the lack of interest in putting a affordability restriction on this fund.

[1:26:18] It's a new information for me, so I'm processing it on the spot.

[1:26:21] Okay, as you are.

[1:26:23] But I will say, it's just an essential requirement that we receive that the public,

[1:26:28] and this is public money, receive a return on money that we give.

[1:26:32] And in this case, it's affordable housing funding.

[1:26:35] And so the public is entitled to receive and return some guarantee that that public interest will continue to be met to some extent.

[1:26:45] Well, what that specifically would look like in this case, you know, I don't know, without some, that's for future process.

[1:26:50] Okay. But it is a concern to me as it is with staff that that is not something that this particular project is willing to do by comparison to all the others.

[1:27:03] Thank you for that.

[1:27:03] It makes it difficult to craft a performance agreement on behalf of the public.

[1:27:09] Okay,

[1:27:12] any other questions given our new information and our evolving information, you look

[1:27:19] question-y, council member, segment?

[1:27:24] I don't know if anyone's here from have a topic and speak to this affordability questions.

[1:27:30] Yeah, so yeah, I don't know if you can speak to that yourself or who would make that

[1:27:37] that question needs to go back to the homeowner.

[1:27:41] I mean, I understand the implications of that decision,

[1:27:45] but if that becomes the only barrier to us doing this funding,

[1:27:51] is that reconsiderable, I guess, is in the question.

[1:27:54] Mr. Phillips, if you feel comfortable,

[1:27:56] and feel like you can answer your welcome to come back up to the podium,

[1:27:59] but you are not required to do so.

[1:28:08] All right, so I'm never like spoken in front of anybody anyone ever.

[1:28:10] Don't worry, we're not, we promise we're not as scary as we look at the early.

[1:28:15] It's something that has not come up in home preservation so far.

[1:28:21] We'd have to because traditionally the projects have been much smaller.

[1:28:27] We are currently exploring what it looks like to do these larger projects.

[1:28:33] And if there is some kind of mechanism that comes into play when they get large in the budget,

[1:28:41] this project was kind of early days with us when the opportunity to apply for this funding source came up.

[1:28:52] So I mean we haven't done any kind of play review with the homeowner or anything like that.

[1:28:57] You're really good looking at trying to fund it first before we, you know, get

[1:29:02] anybody's hopes way up and then disappoint them.

[1:29:08] I would hate to see that happen.

[1:29:10] So, yeah, I think there's, I probably can, I don't have the authority to say yes.

[1:29:16] This is what will happen, but I, I don't think that is out of the question and the

[1:29:23] the homeowner seems to be very established in the neighborhood.

[1:29:27] So I don't see it as, you know, any kind of exploitation.

[1:29:33] Thank you.

[1:29:35] And you did great.

[1:29:38] Sorry, y'all.

[1:29:39] We can't do.

[1:29:40] No, we're not.

[1:29:42] We've got to keep rolling guys.

[1:29:44] Councilmember Berry.

[1:29:49] So I received a text message from

[1:29:54] Ms. Player, Jennifer Player, Pavitat, today or yesterday.

[1:30:00] And suggesting that there were more funds that could be applied to this. Is that the case? Are there more funds?

[1:30:07] I was looking back to see the communication. Are there more funds available that haven't been allocated or have all of the funds been distributed in your recommendation?

[1:30:18] We do have funding available. Thanks to the Community Project funding award.

[1:30:23] That allowed us to re-allocate the 1.5 million that have been committed to change your

[1:30:29] branch trace and make that available through this funding process.

[1:30:33] And that's what is allowing us to fund more projects.

[1:30:37] But what staff are proposing is whatever balance is not allocated by Council this evening

[1:30:43] would be made available in next year's budget, which would be a great help given that

[1:30:49] have limited funding available to support affordable housing projects, so that would give us a

[1:30:54] little boost next year, which you've heard about at some of your recent budget discussions.

[1:30:59] Thank you for that clarification. I appreciate it.

[1:31:02] Okay, y'all, if there's no other clarifying questions for attorneys or staff, let's move on to

[1:31:07] comments.

[1:31:10] Councilmember Miller, for you. Yeah, I just want to say these are really great projects.

[1:31:14] I want to apologize to the Towns of Journey for using very country

[1:31:18] things, but yeah, these are really great, really want to see some follow-up

[1:31:27] with this pine nose repair.

[1:31:32] I want to see what the outcomes are and I'm really not sure where to go.

[1:31:38] at this point but hopefully those involved with Habitat and working with the family

[1:31:46] will be able to continue to be in conversation with organizations and I hope to hear something

[1:31:55] more in regards to this because this is really a bit just to me. Thank you.

[1:32:02] Council Member Makala. I've been a Council Member Steckman. I just want to say Ditto.

[1:32:14] Councilmember Stegman?

[1:32:17] I will did a plus, just to say that this is just a really exciting set of applications

[1:32:25] on the Davy Street and the Cedar Hills.

[1:32:29] These are just really exciting innovative projects, a really nice mix of preservation, acquisition,

[1:32:37] and the homes in Carver Street, so it's really exciting to people to vote on this tonight.

[1:32:45] And I also appreciate Miss Sanchez's comment about needing money for all the things and not just the

[1:32:57] LITAC.

[1:32:58] That's a really important reminder of all the great work that is happening in our community beyond

[1:33:02] LITAC, which are really, really important, allow us to do really big things, but there's

[1:33:07] So many other great projects that our partners are working on that it's important for us to support.

[1:33:13] So this is a great example of that, of the variety of needs that we're trying to meet always with non enough funding.

[1:33:24] And also just that, yeah, I don't think we can figure it out tonight, but with really like staff and everyone to keep talking and can kind of stay in touch with us.

[1:33:37] as far as the panel's situation and how we can,

[1:33:41] with all of these amazing partners together,

[1:33:43] I feel like we can figure this out.

[1:33:45] I don't think we can figure it out on the day as this minute,

[1:33:48] but yeah, but I really hope that we can figure that out

[1:33:53] and see if there's ways the town can be a part of figuring that out.

[1:33:58] Thank you.

[1:34:01] I'll count as a member, Barry.

[1:34:05] Thank you.

[1:34:05] as someone who needed assistance was housing secure as someone who worked for an organization

[1:34:19] of partner that provided housing,

[1:34:24] as someone who worked alongside an individual who applied

[1:34:28] for the CDBG funding and additional funds through the town.

[1:34:36] I empathize with those who are applying for the money.

[1:34:41] I also am familiar with the professionalism that our staff brings to this disarmament day

[1:34:48] and a day out.

[1:34:53] I stand behind them in their decision.

[1:34:56] I stand alongside my colleagues in wanting to.

[1:35:00] To find a solution for the Pine knows home. I agree with the staff's recommendation that this

[1:35:09] is not the best time, especially in Mr. Phillips comments that they are not that far along when

[1:35:17] they had to submit the application. So if we can figure out a way as someone just said to be a partner

[1:35:24] the town alongside to make a home that is available accessible for this family and meets the towns

[1:35:38] requirements to be leading to be law abiding. Then I very much support that.

[1:35:48] I too feel the urgency for us to put our heads down, put our heads together, and find a way to move forward with affordable housing funds, because we don't have any.

[1:36:04] This takes care of, or we have expanded what was on the last bond.

[1:36:09] And it is very prudent of our staff to put some aside for next year.

[1:36:14] Should we not come up with something?

[1:36:15] Thank you.

[1:36:21] Anybody else?

[1:36:23] Okay.

[1:36:26] So she's just quickly wrap up.

[1:36:28] I think first of all, I know this one issue is very difficult.

[1:36:32] And of course, we do not want to.

[1:36:36] We want to make sure that we are trying to find solutions for this community member who sounds like is in a pretty untenable situation.

[1:36:44] So I think you're just hearing interest in finding ways that the town can partner and continue to move the conversation.

[1:36:49] and along and that we trust our staff to figure out good solutions, and we don't want to

[1:36:55] make decisions from the diet that may not be super pertinent at the moment, but there's also

[1:36:59] an interest in finding solutions. I also do just want to say how exciting this is, and we just

[1:37:05] appreciate this amazing work. We got to celebrate last week that we got units on Legion Road,

[1:37:12] and now we get to celebrate this. So thank you for continuing to do amazing work continuing to

[1:37:19] bring us things that we get to celebrate and we're just really proud of all the work you're

[1:37:23] doing. So 100 million thank you's from Council. And with that, I before we vote, I do need

[1:37:33] a motion to reduce Council member, Miller Fuchsie. Man, one day it's just going to roll off

[1:37:40] the tongue. It's going to happen. Council member Miller Fuchsie. So I moved by Council member

[1:37:46] another seconded by Councilmember Ryan, all those in favor, please say aye.

[1:37:50] Aye. Any opposed? Please say nay. Motion passes 80. And now I will entertain a motion for resolution three.

[1:38:00] So moved.

[1:38:02] Move by Councilmember Berry, seconded by Councilmember Ryan, all those in favor, please.

[1:38:07] Oh, sorry.

[1:38:08] segment, Ryan. Sorry, everyone gets really touchy about the motion, a seconded by Council

[1:38:17] Member Stegman. All those in favor, please say aye. Any opposed? Please say nay. Motion passes

[1:38:27] eight zero. Well done.

[1:38:35] Oh, man, seven zero. Sorry. We lost another one's not here and then

[1:38:40] is refused. Sorry for the record 70. Okay. On to item number six, we're writing our rules.

[1:38:51] Alumo update, we have Katherine Shore and Taz Logo here to lead us through. Welcome.

[1:39:20] Which I'm loving of course.

[1:39:29] Good evening. Madam Mayor, members of the council, I'm Taz Logo with

[1:39:33] playing department, joined by my colleague, Catherine Shaw,

[1:39:37] to discuss with you this evening,

[1:39:38] rewriting our rules, Olimmo update.

[1:39:44] And Jennifer this evening,

[1:39:46] given that this is kind of our first regular meeting

[1:39:48] on this topic,

[1:39:50] wanna give an opportunity for the public

[1:39:52] to hear a quick recap on some of the discussions

[1:39:54] that have been had over the last several months.

[1:39:57] Catherine is then gonna lead us in a discussion.

[1:40:00] And some of the engagement work that we've been undertaking over the last four months, also lead a discussion

[1:40:08] on a racial equity analysis that she and our colleague Chernika Harrell have worked really

[1:40:13] diligently on over the last several months. And then I'm going to round things out with a discussion

[1:40:18] about some kind of late-breaking analysis that we've received from our consultant team around affordable

[1:40:24] housing and some of the economics behind our decision making going forward.

[1:40:31] So, to kind of quickly recap some of the discussions that we've been having as of this evening council has met six times in the last seven months to discuss the Luma rewrite.

[1:40:43] Each of these meetings has been an opportunity for for you all and for members of the public to learn about and to comment on kind of higher level policy considerations underlying this work.

[1:40:55] At no point during these meetings, if we ask for formal decisions, instead we're asking for

[1:41:01] kind of straw polls, right, asking for guidance for feedback so that we can make sure that

[1:41:06] we are moving in a direction that is understood and generally in keeping with council's interests

[1:41:15] on each of these topics. We have talked about a wide range of topics that I will not go into

[1:41:22] detail with you all this evening, this is really for the, you know, for the interest of folks

[1:41:29] that have been kind enough to stick around and for those watching at home. I will touch on,

[1:41:34] you know, a couple of, I think, key issues that have been, you know, kind of through lions throughout

[1:41:42] a lot of these discussions, right? We've heard from you all about an interest in moving the

[1:41:48] on by-right development, so long as we're able to continue to meet the town's interests, right?

[1:41:54] And that's work that we are continuing to explore, continuing to try to find ways to meet those interests as we draft the new Luma.

[1:42:04] Likewise, we've heard from you all, from community members, about the need for a stronger commercial base to support the community's interests.

[1:42:13] One of the ways that we can do that is through developing more mixed use zoning districts.

[1:42:19] Again, we're going to be continuing that work, crafting the types of zoning districts that meet those interests.

[1:42:27] We've heard some strong interest in continuing with the momentum that you all established last year around missing middle housing.

[1:42:36] together with our consultant team staff or continuing to find ways to, to, to, again, move the

[1:42:42] needle on missing middle housing, find more ways to make more types of housing accessible

[1:42:48] and possible to build in Chapel Hill. We've also, again, heard a lot about interest surrounding

[1:42:54] environmental protection. And those are going to be through lines through a lot of the work

[1:42:58] that we are undertaking over the next several months as we continue to draft the new Lumo

[1:43:03] and we'll find it with the help of community partners.

[1:43:09] I wanted to touch quickly on something that we're not talking about this evening,

[1:43:13] but that we will come back to you all with once we have kind of tangible materials to share.

[1:43:19] And that's design standards, right?

[1:43:21] Design and dimensional standards that, again, meet the town's interest

[1:43:25] in a complete community that really prioritizes excellence in the public realm.

[1:43:31] Well, we're anticipating is that as we continue to work through some draft design standards with our consultant team,

[1:43:37] in coordination with other kind of public stakeholders,

[1:43:42] we'll be ready to come back to you all really first thing in the fall with some draft standards,

[1:43:46] so we can have a discussion around concrete material,

[1:43:52] around concrete standards, right?

[1:43:54] That we can talk about so that it's more than just an abstract discussion

[1:43:58] and so we can really dig into that conversation.

[1:44:03] So that's, again, we've been hard at work,

[1:44:05] kind of taking into account the various topics

[1:44:08] that have been discussed over the last seven months.

[1:44:12] We are nowhere near the end of these discussions,

[1:44:15] and so we'll be continuing to come back to you

[1:44:18] with we hope are right discussions as we move forward.

[1:44:23] With that, I'm gonna hand things over to Katherine

[1:44:25] to lead us through the next couple of segments of the presentation.

[1:44:32] Hey everyone,

[1:44:36] so I'm going to walk us through an update on our engagement efforts.

[1:44:42] It's been a while since I've been in front of you, and I'm really excited to share that we are informing and consulting a lot of different stakeholders using a lot of different tools.

[1:44:52] And since I was last in front of you in January, we have hosted 19 different engagements.

[1:44:58] That includes two learning sessions.

[1:45:00] With our planning ambassadors and we wrapped up our first cohort of that program, we've hosted six stakeholder meetings

[1:45:07] through targeted outreach to different groups. We've hosted four public information meetings, both in person and virtual.

[1:45:15] And we've hosted seven pop-up events to reach people in public housing communities, the farmers market and different community spaces.

[1:45:23] So you might be wondering, great, what's next?

[1:45:26] We're excited to keep meeting people and telling them about this important work to update our

[1:45:31] land use rules. So we have six public information meetings coming up. There's going to be

[1:45:36] three next week and three in May. We're continuing to schedule pop up and stay quarter meetings

[1:45:42] throughout the month of May. We are going to take a break of our engagement over the summer

[1:45:46] to focus on refining our draft ordinance with the consultant team and then we'll really reinvigorate

[1:45:52] and boost our community engagement in the fall.

[1:45:56] Any questions about the engagement?

[1:45:58] I'm happy to take or I can move next to our equity analysis.

[1:46:06] So now I'm going to share with you the work

[1:46:08] that staff has done many of us are here tonight

[1:46:11] to analyze our land use rules through an equity lens.

[1:46:15] So why even look at racial equity?

[1:46:17] We have our DEI office that has provided a really helpful

[1:46:20] definition that racial equity is when race can no longer

[1:46:23] be used to predict life outcomes

[1:46:25] and that outcomes for all groups are improved.

[1:46:28] So we know that zoning has contributed

[1:46:30] to the systemic nature of economic and racial segregation.

[1:46:35] And one of the reasons that we need to modernize our limo

[1:46:38] is to address the inequitable outcomes that are institutionalized,

[1:46:42] institutionalized,

[1:46:43] thorrelangious rules,

[1:46:45] our land use plans, and our land use decisions.

[1:46:50] The racial equity analysis that's in your packet has three parts

[1:46:53] that's on page 57 of your packet.

[1:46:56] We take a moment to acknowledge the indigenous stewards of this land, and we understand that any decision

[1:47:01] land use rule implicates them. Then we assess the racial impacts of our current land use rules.

[1:47:08] And we look at some of the causes of those.

[1:47:11] And then last week, we compare our current land use rules to some national best practices through an equity lens.

[1:47:18] So like I said, there's growing evidence to suggest that exclusionary zoning policies and rules

[1:47:27] limit racial and economic diversity and this, just in itself, MPs are goal of becoming a

[1:47:32] complete community. So I want to start with this chart that shows that as 2022 estimate

[1:47:38] of population by race for Chapel Hill and for the state. And we put them side by side because

[1:47:43] we wanted to highlight that black people are underrepresented in Chapel Hill. You can see that

[1:47:48] the percent of the population of black residents is half less than half that of the state.

[1:47:53] And there are a lot of things that contribute to this outcome and I'll go over that in the presentation.

[1:47:57] And our land use rules are one of them.

[1:48:00] I want to focus on how the impact of this disparity relates to our land use rules and how that has outcomes at housing, education, and economic opportunity.

[1:48:10] So our current land use rules contribute to higher housing costs by limiting in-field development and restricting housing types.

[1:48:16] And in Chapel Hill 58% of renters are cost burdened.

[1:48:20] This is recent data.

[1:48:23] And you heard in the public comment earlier tonight,

[1:48:26] this is a very real data.

[1:48:29] The Chapel Hill residents that are most likely to be renters

[1:48:32] are Black Hispanic or mixed race.

[1:48:35] Another impact of our land use rules is in education outcomes.

[1:48:39] There's growing evidence that points to restrictive land use rules

[1:48:42] as a driver of despair, education outcomes, and options.

[1:48:46] So for example, in our school system in the 2020 school year,

[1:48:52] in this school year end, in the previous school years,

[1:48:54] there's a consistent trend that the great level

[1:48:56] proficiency among black and Hispanic students

[1:48:58] is significantly lower than among white and Asian students.

[1:49:04] So we know that black residents in our community

[1:49:06] are much less likely to be homeowners,

[1:49:09] and therefore less likely to build wealth through homeownership,

[1:49:11] an access to capital, combined with educational attainment, influences economic opportunity.

[1:49:18] Self-employment is also an indicator of economic opportunity, and self-employment in

[1:49:23] Chapel Hill is highest among white people and has been a people and lowest among black

[1:49:28] people.

[1:49:31] So I want to focus on the causes of these inequitable outcomes and really hone in on the systemic

[1:49:41] oppression of marginalized groups that leads to inequitable outcomes here and also across

[1:49:47] our country and this cannot be overstated. So that looks like current and past laws and policies,

[1:49:53] like sundown laws, restrictive covenants, explicit and implicit and implicit segregation based

[1:49:58] on class and race.

[1:50:00] And another cause is the disparate access to resources, things like access to housing and jobs and transportation and education that varies based on race.

[1:50:09] And finally, the way that our land is regulated and how its valued leads to an equitable outcomes, things like our zoning, real estate markets, private and public agreements and how land is used.

[1:50:22] So that's set the stage for some of the racial impacts of our land use rules, and I'm going to go into some of the staff's analysis of our current land use rules, and I'm going to take a sip of water before I do that.

[1:50:40] So you may be familiar with the American Planning Association or the APA, they prepared and ratified the equity and zoning policy guide, which was released recently in 2022.

[1:50:50] to. So even though this is relatively new guidance, these are not new ideas for advancing equity and zoning.

[1:50:58] I think I'm a state of the number in your packet. The table is on page 53 of your packet.

[1:51:03] And I invite your feedback and questions on it. We assessed our ordinance against 35 recommended

[1:51:08] policies for equity and land use rules.

[1:51:13] This is like related to allowing more mix of uses,

[1:51:17] allowing more housing options and allowing more administrative approvals and what we found is that the

[1:51:22] areas where we are not aligned with best practice are many of the elements of the Luma that we

[1:51:28] already want to update or have updated. The town is already advanced some of these recommendations

[1:51:33] like with the housing choices tax amendments last year and in other instances we've asked you to

[1:51:39] provide policy-level guidance on the topics that TAS highlighted earlier.

[1:51:45] So many of the topics

[1:51:47] that we're bringing to you are based on national best practice for more modern and more equitable

[1:51:51] land use rules. This update is an important step in the right direction and we shouldn't set

[1:51:57] an expectation that all issues will be addressed in one update. It has taken hundreds of years to

[1:52:03] create these inequities and they won't be resolved in one year or one limo update. However,

[1:52:09] that shouldn't stop us or stop you from confidently pursuing some changes that may have more

[1:52:15] but will outcomes and may also be uncomfortable to adjust to.

[1:52:19] And when we consider the options for how to change our land use rules,

[1:52:23] we have to remember that they're all connected,

[1:52:25] and that the options for updating these rules should be looked

[1:52:27] at together.

[1:52:29] And so this assessment that we've done will be refined,

[1:52:32] and we'll consider some recommended policies

[1:52:34] around zoning procedures and zoning maps as the project progresses.

[1:52:40] So at this point, I'll invite questions and feedback,

[1:52:43] And then I will, after we wrap that up, I'll switch it to the affordable housing section of the presentation.

[1:52:50] Councilmember Ryan.

[1:52:51] Yeah, thank you for that. I thought that the equity assessment you did was great.

[1:52:55] It was tons of information in there and it was wonderful.

[1:52:58] And I just, you probably touched a little bit on this at the end of what you were saying,

[1:53:03] but what I'm looking for is the so what? Like you did a good analysis of if we do this,

[1:53:07] we don't do that. These are the implications. We can't do that. We can't.

[1:53:11] But are you going to come back to us with a list of these are the, these are the recommended actions?

[1:53:17] Great question. So when we have a draft ordinance, we're going to come back to you and say here are the things that we're recommending and how they're aligned with best practice or not.

[1:53:27] Okay, so you're talking about coming back in the fall, not for us to see it before you start writing. Would it be possible to get it earlier than that?

[1:53:34] I think that it would be, for us to be able to make an assessment of the draft material

[1:53:41] against some of these recommended policies, we as staff really need to be able to make

[1:53:46] that assessment.

[1:53:48] So I'm imagining that that would come before you and the fall.

[1:53:51] Oh, okay.

[1:53:52] Because I guess the way I would approach the logic is I figured out what I want to change

[1:53:55] and then I would draft that, but I guess you're doing it the other way.

[1:53:59] Well, what I might recommend is looking at staff's assessment of the current limo.

[1:54:05] If you see some misalignment in ours, between what our current limo does and what national

[1:54:11] best practices, please highlight that to us.

[1:54:14] I think you did a good job of doing that and I think your table was very clear about where

[1:54:18] you see the issues are.

[1:54:20] I'm just trying to figure out what the solutions are that you're proposing so that we can

[1:54:24] look at those before we.

[1:54:25] It's going to be very hard once you guys have a lot of big draft ordinance right this thing is going to be a monster

[1:54:30] It's going to be very hard for us to tackle individual topics like this. I'm just trying to figure out a good way for us to be able to weigh in

[1:54:38] I mean, I think I think council will be supportive of what you're what you're looking at

[1:54:43] I just want to make sure that we have a chance to weigh in on it before we get this very, very big baked document

[1:54:49] And thank you for that. I think part of what she's trying to describe is that

[1:54:54] because we've done this assessment and you see how we've already marked through the old

[1:54:58] Lomo and the current Lomo.

[1:55:00] To figure out where the inconsistencies are, that is really what we would. If you want to give feedback to give guidance, that is really where that needs to come.

[1:55:08] Because based on the assessment we've already done, we will be making changes to the limo and recommending changes there. So what Catherine is saying is correct.

[1:55:17] And it wouldn't be until the fall when the draft is complete that we can come to you, but we wouldn't just drop a draft and drop a report and tell you that we've been able to tag that and let you know how we address the things that were already identified.

[1:55:29] is that helpful? It is. I think it's just that again, there were some places where, you

[1:55:34] know, you would say, well, there are legal obstacles here or we can do this or we might

[1:55:38] do that or it was more you were just laying out the case. So I wasn't clear on what direction

[1:55:42] you guys were going to recommend. And that's I think important for me and my other council members

[1:55:47] to understand this we move forward. And I think as we prepare materials for you, we can try

[1:55:52] to be mindful of that to provide those explanations and lay out what was done and how we came

[1:55:57] to the decision that we made that we're proposing for the draft.

[1:56:01] Thank you.

[1:56:02] Yes, just to make sure that I understand,

[1:56:05] because I agree with the interest, I think,

[1:56:08] which is that as we're going, right?

[1:56:10] We want to understand, and if there are things

[1:56:12] that we're talking about in the lead-up to the summer,

[1:56:16] which is when a lot of traffic happens, right?

[1:56:19] We want to understand where things are

[1:56:21] in conflict potentially that we might have an interest in, right?

[1:56:24] or we want to be getting that information along the way so that we don't get to the fall

[1:56:29] and then things that we thought that we had agreed on, then are different, right?

[1:56:34] And then it's even more confusing.

[1:56:36] Or then it doesn't tell us where the changes are made, I guess.

[1:56:42] But you're saying there's some that there is a process solution.

[1:56:44] So tell me what it is.

[1:56:48] Or maybe you're not, I don't know.

[1:56:53] I'm not sure I understand your question.

[1:56:56] We're doing great.

[1:56:58] I think they're doing great.

[1:57:00] I guess my question is how are we, if we're getting this equity assessment, which is super important.

[1:57:08] How are we translating that into these conversations that we're having along the way?

[1:57:15] And so like in an extreme example, which I don't think is going to happen, I think a lot of what we're doing in the direction we're moving is going to be

[1:57:24] fixing a lot of the issues in the old Lumo anyway, right? I mean just by

[1:57:29] streamlining and by allowing for infill etc and that we're doing you know a lot of

[1:57:36] changes but I guess what I'm asking is like in the extreme example you could

[1:57:40] imagine that we are we're giving guidance to you that we want low density

[1:57:47] residential all across town like that's the extreme I'm not saying that I promise

[1:57:51] please don't quote me on it. I just said it into a microphone, but what I'm saying is in the

[1:57:58] extreme that we would be saying, we want this and then you're like, Coca-Cola, write it down,

[1:58:04] and then in September, you're like, oops, guess what? That's like not good idea. That would actually be

[1:58:11] in contradictory to your racial equity goal. And so what I'm wondering is how are you,

[1:58:16] how are you forcing us to have the conversation along the way or informing us of how

[1:58:21] this is integrating into our decisions,

[1:58:23] so that we're not kind of having a decision

[1:58:26] devoid of the racial equity layer,

[1:58:29] or the racial equity lens.

[1:58:32] So, well, I think we can do is,

[1:58:35] as you all are giving us policy guidance,

[1:58:38] as Tasmanian, we're processing a lot of the topics

[1:58:42] that you're sharing and a lot of the ideas

[1:58:44] that staff is bringing to you

[1:58:46] and asking for direction on,

[1:58:49] are based on best practice.

[1:58:50] And so when we come back to you with some recommended directions, something that we could consider is laying out how it aligns with these equity policies.

[1:59:06] You know, these are best practices. This is not like a scoring group break. I don't want it to be misinterpreted, but it is something that we should keep in mind.

[1:59:15] as as you all are considering some of these policy directions that that we're asking for you.

[1:59:21] So something we could we can continue to bring this up and our intention is to continue to bring this up.

[1:59:29] As we're having these policy level discussions with you and when the draft ordinance is ready.

[1:59:34] And also keep in mind this is something that we're looking to just apply to this ordinance.

[1:59:39] It also is going to apply to the work at the planning department is doing as a whole

[1:59:42] and we're working with Shinika Weeks on that and bringing her up. I'd like for her to comment

[1:59:47] because she has some clarification on the equity lens and how it fits into what you're speaking about.

[1:59:51] We're doing she's here.

[1:59:56] Welcome. Good evening, Mayor In-Count.

[2:00:00] So, as I work with the planning team, this is half of an equity lens, right? So, they've gotten as far as they can go without actually having a draft in front of them to speak to what the recommended changes are, what the mitigation strategies are, but they're giving you a really good outlay of what APA is proposing and where we are now. And so, as I understand it, as they continue to work through, those recommendations will become more clear in terms of what they recommend the council.

[2:00:30] do. So that makes like it's half of it because all of it's not complete.

[2:00:33] So it feels like half.

[2:00:34] Yes, for sure.

[2:00:36] But you want the other hand.

[2:00:37] I just want to make sure that we're using our equity lens as we're doing the work.

[2:00:42] And so I don't want us to give guidance that then doesn't make sense or we've missed something.

[2:00:47] And again, I don't know what I don't know.

[2:00:50] So I just want to make sure that the things that we've talked about along the way are rooted in

[2:00:55] the equity lens.

[2:01:03] I can't tell you how important I think it is that y'all have done this equity analysis.

[2:01:12] I think it's really important for the public to understand that this is a foundational issue.

[2:01:20] as we're doing this Lumo, I don't think your average comfortable right, white homeowner knows about red lining and all the other stuff that's happened in the past and I think it's really important that they do.

[2:01:36] When housing, choice was being discussed, I was doing advocacy with a CERA club for it and more than once I had people say, why are you calling me a racist?

[2:01:50] And I thought it was important for them to tell them that acknowledging the foundational

[2:02:01] institutional racism that got us the privileges that we have, that got a lot of us

[2:02:08] to where we are is an important thing to understand and whereas we might not have personally

[2:02:16] It caused that it is something that is part of our society that we have an obligation to try

[2:02:23] to address, and so I think it's also, I just want to throw in here that the same kind

[2:02:29] of practices got us into a lot of the environmental and vehicle miles traveled up place

[2:02:36] we are now too, so I just wanted to say that thank you for doing it.

[2:02:42] Any other questions?

[2:02:46] It was

[2:02:49] It was lovely and you're not the first person to get a head of

[2:02:53] I'm gonna you did say you did say comments. I'll just wait

[2:02:57] Oh, we haven't done public we haven't done public comment yet. So we are at questions

[2:03:04] Which of course we always good we we managed to make some of our questions into comments anyway, so

[2:03:11] Right any other questions

[2:03:16] Okay, okay. I actually have a question from previous, but maybe we want to get through it and then I can ask question at the end from the first part from Tazza's part.

[2:03:25] Maybe when Tazza's up here.

[2:03:27] Right, fair. Let's do it. So I'll invite Taz back up here.

[2:03:32] Hey, Taz.

[2:03:34] It's the hot seat.

[2:03:36] Catherine was like, when Taz gets back up here is now.

[2:03:41] Hello, again, can I ask you a question about the slide where you talk about all the things that we've talked about so far?

[2:03:48] With the check marks.

[2:03:50] You did not check marks.

[2:03:51] Would you like me to go back to that slide for?

[2:03:53] Sure.

[2:04:00] So I think to Amy's question, like, tell me so what?

[2:04:04] Like, what did you hear?

[2:04:05] What does this mean for the work you're going to do over the summer?

[2:04:11] And besides just the topics.

[2:04:14] And maybe this is, again, where I'm kind of like,

[2:04:16] okay, so what is the racial equity tool kit?

[2:04:19] Meaning, when we combine it with the conversations we've had,

[2:04:22] is there, you know, what did you hear

[2:04:23] and are there things that we should be thinking

[2:04:25] about differently given the racial equity work?

[2:04:30] It's a tiny question.

[2:04:32] Yeah, and I think that's why I kind of started

[2:04:34] a little bit out of frame that piece of information,

[2:04:36] because I know that's been an interest for this evening.

[2:04:39] You know, for each one of these topics, right?

[2:04:41] We could go into a pretty lengthy discussion

[2:04:43] about what we've heard and how we plan on incorporating that into our work going forward.

[2:04:50] If there are particular topics of interest that you want that kind of deeper dive on,

[2:04:56] certainly happy to talk about that, right off the bat or when it comes to.

[2:05:00] I think that's a topic that so, in some ways, perfectly encapsulates the work that Catherine

[2:05:09] Shinika, Sharnika, the rest of our team have been doing around equity, right? One of the top line recommendations from the APA,

[2:05:19] is to expand opportunities for buy-right development because of the equitable outcomes that that can bring about.

[2:05:24] So, you know, we have, we have that in mind, that is something that when we come back to

[2:05:29] you all next month, you know, Mayor Anderson, you mentioned, how are, how are we as staff

[2:05:34] going to make sure that we are continuing to keep equity analysis top of mind and part of

[2:05:40] the discussion?

[2:05:41] Part of the answer is that we will make sure that it's always part of the discussion going

[2:05:45] forward.

[2:05:46] Right.

[2:05:46] We're not going to have a discussion about by right development next month without talking

[2:05:51] about the equitable considerations at play.

[2:05:55] The other considerations at play are the things

[2:05:57] that we've heard from you all in the library.

[2:06:01] It's weird talking about it here.

[2:06:03] But we've heard about this notion

[2:06:05] that we, as a town, understand the need to get counsel

[2:06:11] out of the weeds and into a policy-making role.

[2:06:16] But we know that there are also real community interests that play that can be protected by a certain extent by having council more involved in some development review and development decisions.

[2:06:32] Right. So that's that's the sort of thing that we're rambling with that we're going to be trying to balance.

[2:06:36] as we write new processes moving forward as we put the notions of improving our current processes

[2:06:46] before we all. And as we write new standards, right, they're going to complement it.

[2:06:51] Because it's not just process, it's also substantive rules as well. And so I think that that's an example,

[2:06:59] right of just on the one topic of right development, how we plan on incorporating the things that we've heard from you all.

[2:07:07] And factoring that into the work that we're undertaking, just from a nuts and bolts perspective, right?

[2:07:17] We are we're still writing, right?

[2:07:20] We're working through technical work around the draft aluminum over the summer.

[2:07:25] We plan to refine that internally with staff, but also start reaching out to kind of experience,

[2:07:33] folks with on-the-ground knowledge of how Luma works, how it's going to affect them, right?

[2:07:38] That means reaching out to our affordable housing, development community, reaching out to our home

[2:07:44] builders, understanding how the things that we're putting in front of them are going to be translated

[2:07:49] into reality. And through all of those discussions will be sharing, we'll be heard from you all,

[2:07:58] from our different advisory boards and bringing those to bear as well.

[2:08:06] Well, I guess what I'll ask then is, I think it would be really helpful for us to understand

[2:08:15] what you've heard from our conversations, because even for me as one of nine, sometimes

[2:08:22] I'm focused on what other people are saying and then I write it down and then whatever.

[2:08:28] So I guess what would be helpful is to understand what you've heard from us in a way where

[2:08:32] kind of mirroring back to us what you've heard and then it will be really helpful to hear what

[2:08:38] you're hearing from other groups too so that we can also understand if things are going in

[2:08:43] a direction that we don't think we gave guidance for it's really clear to us why and you can tell

[2:08:48] us like actually based on best practice or based on what we're hearing from the development community.

[2:08:55] I think you all need to think about this differently and I think this council is really open to that

[2:08:59] I think we really want to understand how the process is unfolding and how your processing

[2:09:05] different piece of information and when we need to think differently too, I think that's

[2:09:09] really helpful guidance for us instead of kind of getting into the end and being like, well,

[2:09:13] got here, but I'm not sure how. So I want to be told when I am saying something that actually

[2:09:21] is in conflict with some other interests. So that's, I guess, one of nine. I will say that

[2:09:26] interest for me. Anyway. And to that point, I'll just say, you know, yes, we will, we will

[2:09:34] absolutely do that. I can't promise it by like the next meeting agenda packet.

[2:09:39] Cause drafts are new for that. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it makes all the sense in the world

[2:09:46] before we kind of go into the summer for that material to be available to folks. But we'll also say,

[2:09:52] of the tempo of our interactions with you all, is going to change right for the...

[2:10:00] I mean, six meetings in seven months like strap in because like the rest of the year is going to get, it's going to get, it's about to get real.

[2:10:09] Yeah, it's going to get, it's going to get, it's going to get, we're really going to get into kind of a busy season with this work.

[2:10:16] So things will change, we'll continue to adapt and please keep sharing your interest with us.

[2:10:20] Thank you. And obviously the town manager and I can work together if you need additional time before summer as well.

[2:10:26] I'm not trying to make more meetings, but we're going to have to have some things that have

[2:10:30] light agendas probably, so we can always have that conversation too.

[2:10:34] Thank you.

[2:10:35] And as you were.

[2:10:39] Okay, so I'm going to, okay, TIP conversation around affordable housing, I just want to

[2:10:45] make sure, you know, in light of the perspectives that were shared earlier this evening, it might

[2:10:50] seem insensitive, disconveroous for me to be talking about developer, profit margins or financial

[2:11:00] returns. I just want to be clear for you all and for members of the public that we're

[2:11:05] having these discussions that we can understand how best to serve the interests that we're

[2:11:09] shared earlier this evening.

[2:11:13] I wanted to touch on two topics that are going to be informing a lot

[2:11:20] the work that we're doing over the next several months in some of the decisions it will ask

[2:11:24] you all to make in the fall. And they they've fallen to two buckets, right? Housing incentives

[2:11:29] and smaller scale housing development projects.

[2:11:35] To this first point, you know, we set out with

[2:11:40] some really significant economic analysis early in this project with the question of can we replace

[2:11:46] conditionals owning as a tool for achieving affordable housing commitments from for profit developers in Chapel Hill.

[2:11:57] We have, we've looked under various financial rocks to find ways to make that happen,

[2:12:03] but the analysis unfortunately suggests that that we can't, right? That we do not have a

[2:12:11] The voluntary program that can create the sort of commitments that we're currently getting out of conditional zoning.

[2:12:21] And so, you know, for better or worse, conditional zoning is not going anywhere.

[2:12:25] We do obviously want to make sure that we're using it to best of its ability, not over using it,

[2:12:32] and not letting it stand in the way of other types of meaningful housing, right?

[2:12:37] which brings me to the next second point around smaller scale projects.

[2:12:41] One of the things that we really want to understand is, are we asking too much,

[2:12:47] and are we standing in our own way in terms of getting more diverse housing,

[2:12:53] more housing, generally speaking in Chapel Hill?

[2:12:57] And what the economic analysis that our consultant teams have undertaken would suggest

[2:13:02] Is that there is a tipping point, right, a point at which a smaller scale project can't afford to provide affordable housing.

[2:13:13] And so that's something that we need to kind of factor into our thinking going forward so that we're finding win-win situations and not backing ourselves into lose-lues situations.

[2:13:27] So, talking first about housing incentives, just kind of to the level set, right?

[2:13:32] When we're looking at the feasibility or the effectiveness of housing incentives,

[2:13:40] the

[2:13:40] thing that we have to keep in mind is that an incentive in order for it to be effective in a

[2:13:55] for a project. There is a clear and convincing business case to provide affordable housing.

[2:14:02] Right? We have to make a situation in which a developer would basically be leaving money on the

[2:14:07] table if they didn't provide affordable housing. And so that's the lens at which we would

[2:14:13] provide or conduct this analysis, our consultant team conducted this analysis, of understanding

[2:14:19] what are the effects on project returns, what are the effects on the returns that are

[2:14:25] are going to expect from a project if they provide affordable housing and if we as a town

[2:14:32] try to bake some incentives into the code for them to do that.

[2:14:36] And so, one of the most commonly discussed incentives around affordable housing is a density bonus.

[2:14:43] Right, density bonuses can look a lot of different ways. They can mean,

[2:14:49] increase floor area ratio. They can mean that if you provide a certain amount of affordable housing,

[2:14:54] you can build seven stories instead of five stories. They can look a lot of ways, but ultimately...

[2:15:00] Currently what they boil down to is they are schemes in which a developer is allowed to build more than they otherwise would be allowed to do if they provide a certain amount of affordable housing.

[2:15:11] What the analysis from our consultant team suggests, right? This is all obviously an imperfect science, but we're doing the best we can with the information that we have.

[2:15:20] What their analysis suggests is that we would really need kind of an impractically high

[2:15:27] density bonus to meet the towns affordability goals.

[2:15:32] We're talking about a 50% density bonus just for a developer to break even for them to provide affordable housing.

[2:15:40] But again, we're not talking about getting developers to break even.

[2:15:43] We're talking about creating such a clear and convincing business case that they can't refuse to provide affordable housing.

[2:15:49] to do that. You need density bonuses that are even higher than 50%.

[2:15:54] What that does is it creates a really strange dynamic given kind of the market runs in Chapel Hill,

[2:16:02] the types of buildings that are typically built in Chapel Hill, in which each one of those density

[2:16:06] bonuses to really take advantage of it. A developer would have to move from a lower cost type of

[2:16:13] construction to a higher cost, right? From surface parking to structured parking or from

[2:16:19] lumber, stick frame construction to steal and concrete construction. And they don't get premiums in

[2:16:26] rent for doing that, right? And they can't charge meaningfully more to do that. And so what it would

[2:16:32] would create, right, is kind of a lose-lose situation in which developers would be more likely to build

[2:16:38] that lower densities and not provide affordable housing.

[2:16:43] And so that's not something we want to hang our hat on,

[2:16:44] because it means losing out on density

[2:16:46] and losing out on affordable housing.

[2:16:49] So density bonus is basically analysis

[2:16:51] from our consultant team, it's kind of off the table

[2:16:54] in terms of inducing market rate developers

[2:16:57] to provide affordable housing.

[2:16:59] The other type of code that we looked at

[2:17:04] providing some relief from are CD buffers

[2:17:08] and step-ax. I want to be clear here. We didn't look at these because we are

[2:17:15] kind of full-bore head on removing 100 foot RCD buffers or anything of that sort. We wanted to do

[2:17:22] was look at the standards that are the easiest to study. The easiest to understand the effects

[2:17:29] on project returns because they offer the most insight into how code-based incentives can work.

[2:17:34] And what we found is that even under ideal conditions,

[2:17:39] these sorts of relief do not provide significant changes in developer returns.

[2:17:48] A lot of instances, they can increase the housing yield on a project.

[2:17:53] They can result in a dozen more units in a 200 unit development.

[2:18:00] But they don't actually change the metrics that a four-profit developer is looking for when justifying a project to an investor, or at least if they do they only move the needle ever so slightly.

[2:18:14] So based on that analysis, again, we are not confident that we can induce market rate developers to provide affordable housing using these sorts of incentives.

[2:18:26] But, and there is kind of a little bit of light at the end of this tunnel right on incentives.

[2:18:33] What our analysis does suggest is that any of these incentives, whether it's density bonuses,

[2:18:40] relief from certain other dimensional standards, they might not produce enough value

[2:18:46] to induce a market rate developer that isn't otherwise interested in providing affordable housing.

[2:18:51] They might not provide enough incentive for that, but they do provide value and that value

[2:18:58] can be meaningful to mission oriented developers, some of whom you heard from earlier

[2:19:03] today.

[2:19:05] And so if we're looking for ways to support mission oriented affordable housing developers,

[2:19:11] we can build in the momentum that you all established with passing the residential community

[2:19:19] priority process for affordable housing, we can build in that momentum, right?

[2:19:25] It doesn't just have to be procedural support for affordable housing developers.

[2:19:31] If there's interest, right, we can look into targeted code-based support for, again, mission

[2:19:38] oriented affordable housing developers, perhaps looking at some of the same thresholds

[2:19:43] that we did for the expedited review process in terms of how much affordable housing

[2:19:48] developer would have to provide to qualify. Again those thresholds are high enough that

[2:19:54] they're not really incentivizing somebody to do something that they wouldn't have done otherwise.

[2:20:00] But they can support people that are mission oriented to provide affordable housing. So there's interest from council in exploring that, that's something that we can work on over the next several months.

[2:20:13] I can't imagine you'll hear no, but council?

[2:20:19] Oh, well. Just just go for it. Well.

[2:20:25] We can do the old-fashioned thumbs-up thumbs down if you'd like to.

[2:20:28] I mean, I don't think we're going to get public comment to the contrary, but I guess we should wait for public comment to be fair, but I don't think you're in less anybody has a huge concern that would be kind of wild not to do it.

[2:20:41] I mean, I just want to really thank you for the analysis that you did on that. I thought it was super helpful.

[2:20:47] and to have data like that, and especially on the American

[2:20:49] of those breaking points are on projects,

[2:20:52] and asking for this here just isn't ever going to be economically

[2:20:55] feasible, it's super helpful.

[2:20:57] So thank you so much for that.

[2:20:59] Yeah, continue.

[2:21:00] Yeah, thanks.

[2:21:02] And so to round things out, right,

[2:21:03] the other question that we asked is, where is that breaking point?

[2:21:08] Right, at what point are we getting in our own way?

[2:21:11] When it comes to getting, not just affordable housing,

[2:21:14] but just more housing in Chapel Hill.

[2:21:16] some of which has the opportunity to be affordable.

[2:21:21] And so we, again, had our consultants ask this question of kind of how small is too small for a project to be able to bear the cost of affordable housing.

[2:21:30] Again, it's an imperfect science.

[2:21:32] It's highly dependent on market conditions and the information at hand.

[2:21:37] But we found, as I'm talking about rental projects, 12 to 16 units looks like it's the breaking point.

[2:21:42] And for four sale projects, 10 to 12 units, is the breaking point.

[2:21:47] So what's this so what, right, when it comes to rental units,

[2:21:53] and this is something we'll talk about next month,

[2:21:56] really rethinking our conditional zoning, the scope of conditional zoning,

[2:22:01] and what type of projects you need to go that route.

[2:22:06] Currently, in most zoning districts, multifamily development with 11 units or more has to go through the conditional zoning process.

[2:22:17] What this analysis would suggest is that given that we know that one of the strongest elements of our conditional zoning process, the biggest tool that it gives us is the ability to negotiate for affordable housing.

[2:22:31] There may not actually be much of a benefit to have that threshold sit at 11 units, right,

[2:22:37] because a project with more units actually may not be able to afford providing the thing

[2:22:45] that is the biggest opportunity for us to ask for through conditional zoning.

[2:22:52] And so it's an opportunity to rethink whether we can move the needle and how much housing

[2:22:58] can be built through purely administrative approvals without actually leaving any affordable housing

[2:23:04] on the table. We can do this without sacrificing more affordable housing commitments from

[2:23:10] developers because this analysis suggests they wouldn't be able to provide it even if we

[2:23:14] ask. And so what we might be doing is disincentivizing the types of projects that we actually

[2:23:19] want to see. Similarly with for sale projects, this is a topic that was included in

[2:23:28] the portable housing plan that you all adopted last year

[2:23:31] to rethink, reconsider, improve, and modernize,

[2:23:36] our inclusionary zoning ordinance.

[2:23:38] This is analysis that can directly lead into that effort.

[2:23:43] And so we'll be working with the CPCR

[2:23:45] for the housing team to think about how this analysis

[2:23:49] can help that effort when the time comes.

[2:23:54] So with that, happy to follow your lead

[2:23:57] on how questions and comments would work.

[2:24:00] If I already, like the CMS, we'll try to get back to it.

[2:24:03] I start Council Member Nullert,

[2:24:04] I'm proud by Council Member Sigmund.

[2:24:06] Could you go back to slide when you've finished hydrating?

[2:24:11] So this is really interesting.

[2:24:13] I really appreciate the way that you've done this.

[2:24:14] My question is, if we end up with a rewrite that's

[2:24:17] going to last us as a document for, let's say, 20, 25 years.

[2:24:21] And these thresholds are about current market conditions.

[2:24:24] Is there a way to write the Lumos so that this is flexible?

[2:24:27] Or is it just a case that you would need to approach whatever council is sitting, you know,

[2:24:32] 18, 16 years from now and say, hey, we need to move these thresholds because we have

[2:24:37] not market conditions have changed in such a way that either we can lower these thresholds and we could actually

[2:24:42] be extracting units from small developments or things have gotten worse.

[2:24:46] And it's actually going to be a 20 unit threshold.

[2:24:48] Like, is there a way to build that flexibility in?

[2:24:49] Or are you going to have to come back and ask for amendments if that proves most efficient?

[2:24:54] I haven't seen an example of a code that, you know, has inflation in.

[2:25:01] We can do what I will say is highly unlikely that these numbers on screen now are the thresholds that we're going to recommend. Even at the outset, we want to bake in a certain level of like a certain margin of error, understanding that this is an in exact set of numbers, right?

[2:25:25] We want to bake in a margin of error at the outset, but also you will have the opportunity

[2:25:31] to establish something that we have not had, which is a culture of continuously re-interrogating

[2:25:40] our standards, our standards for conditional zoning, for when and where our portability

[2:25:51] expectations kind of kick in, have not changed significantly, right? The five unit threshold, right, for some of our expectations around affordable housing, at least 20 years old.

[2:26:04] And so this is an opportunity to kind of set a new baseline, a new expectation about how we're going to think about really any of the standards in Belumon.

[2:26:13] And that applies to not just this, but we've really been talking about the importance of establishing a culture of continuous improvement.

[2:26:22] And this is just going to be one example of that.

[2:26:25] It's like living really a living document.

[2:26:28] And once we unbreak it, and it's beautiful and new, then we can keep it beautiful and new and not let it break.

[2:26:34] Yeah, absolutely.

[2:26:35] I mean, there are some communities, I think Raleigh does annual kind of checkups with

[2:26:40] their UDO, we can get into a similar rhythm that makes sense for this community, maybe not

[2:26:48] annually.

[2:26:50] But, you know, wait, wait more than annually, but annually, baby, I'm under the sex change

[2:26:55] with a list of changes.

[2:26:56] I was just going to say kind of add to Councillor Reynolds question that we should not be

[2:27:00] looking at this document as something that will last 20 years.

[2:27:03] All of these plans, these major plans should be rewritten within 10 years.

[2:27:08] And we should be revisited within five years because we'll need three or four years to update them.

[2:27:13] So we should get on that schedule and that's my goal as a department for us to get to a schedule

[2:27:17] where we are constantly evaluating them.

[2:27:21] And if we do find things and identify things in year one, year two, year eight,

[2:27:26] we as a staff is our responsibility to bring those things to you for your consideration

[2:27:29] to update if something needs to happen quicker.

[2:27:32] So, five year budgeting strategy also.

[2:27:36] Yeah.

[2:27:36] Council Member Stegman.

[2:27:40] My question is whether you thought about or whether we should think about the cost of the housing when we think about these.

[2:27:51] What is feasible, I guess.

[2:27:55] I know, through somewhat informally, we started doing that

[2:28:00] on a case-by-case basis with townhomes that were a little

[2:28:05] more affordable than some of the other housing we were seeing.

[2:28:08] We're like, OK, well, basically the applicant made the argument

[2:28:12] to keep the housing more kind of market rate affordable.

[2:28:18] We can only do 10% affordable housing, or not the 15%.

[2:28:24] So is that something we should be thinking about or factor into this or is it kind of agnostic

[2:28:30] to housing cost?

[2:28:31] Yeah, so I think for anything that's baked into Lumo, we wouldn't want to get into the realm

[2:28:37] of looking through an applicant's perform up, figuring out what their budget looks like.

[2:28:43] When it comes to how you all decide to move forward with negotiations around affordable housing

[2:28:51] through conditional zoning, I think, like you said,

[2:28:56] you've established a practice of thinking about the context

[2:29:00] and I don't see any reason that that should stop by any means.

[2:29:04] One of the things that has come out of this work with our consultant team,

[2:29:11] I don't admittedly understand the Excel models that they have given us to work with.

[2:29:16] but we have them, right? They're tools that we can we can start to use in various ways and maybe that can start to inform

[2:29:23] some of our thinking going forward in less formal settings than the LUMO itself.

[2:29:31] They really can't be taken into account and code.

[2:29:35] Well, it's not a LUMO thing, right? But it's like a policy. It's a policy down. Yeah, okay. Thank you.

[2:29:42] Other questions?

[2:29:43] Okay. Let's hear from the public. Okay, first up is John Weiss, followed by Darren Campbell.

[2:30:02] I'm not sure that the document that I sent is directly attributed to what has just told me.

[2:30:12] The document we sent in was a comment on the typologies and is an urban design response.

[2:30:20] And these issues of affordability and the cost of housing are really quite different.

[2:30:27] And so, for example, I taught real estate development for about 15 years and I just took

[2:30:33] three pages of notes listening to TAS because I had not heard that before.

[2:30:41] So, John, are you here as the chair or are you here as an individual?

[2:30:43] I'm here as a chair.

[2:30:45] Okay, well then we can turn the timer off.

[2:30:49] So, I mean, we prepare a document that's in your packet and it has 10 points about the typology

[2:30:57] these that were paired by Skidmart Owens and Merrill.

[2:31:02] And in our analysis of those typologies,

[2:31:05] we felt that we're 10 issues that we're extremely important.

[2:31:09] And I don't know that any of the discussions so far

[2:31:14] is related to those.

[2:31:15] So I don't know that I really think it's appropriate.

[2:31:18] I'll come back another time and talk about them.

[2:31:22] But we do think they are important because it

[2:31:25] talks about the five to seven-story residential structure that we all love,

[2:31:35] and what the implications

[2:31:39] are of that, who owns those buildings as opposed to the other buildings in town? So we've

[2:31:45] done a little analysis of that, so I'm happy to bring that back, but I think this is a different

[2:31:49] time. Everybody agree? Unless you want to hear something.

[2:31:54] Okay? So I'll come back and talk more

[2:31:58] about the technologies and depending on what has wants us to do, we'd be more than happy

[2:32:03] to get more engaged in these kinds of issues as we move forward. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for

[2:32:09] the invitation. Okay, we've got Darren Campbell followed by John Mitchell.

[2:32:18] It brought a carried a time, let's think I'm going to pass out.

[2:32:21] Welcome back.

[2:32:22] Welcome back.

[2:32:24] Thank you.

[2:32:26] I was part of the Planning Ambassadors program that they spoke up earlier, long before

[2:32:35] all this, all these great data was brought up.

[2:32:40] Thanks, Taz.

[2:32:43] But one thing that I wanted to make sure to clear was that a lot of

[2:32:48] And as we said, a lot of the land use ordinances and variants and a lot of the stuff we've had here in this child was written long for most of us were even born and were added to and at one point were equivalent to Jim Crow laws, a lot of the ordinances and it took a long time for us to get there.

[2:33:15] It's going to take a lot of work and a lot of time for us to get out of that hole that, you know, we have the town have dug us up into.

[2:33:24] This is a good start. This is a good start. And as far as affordable housing, we need more diverse.

[2:33:31] We need more diverse housing in Chapel Hill. We need more diverse businesses in Chapel Hill.

[2:33:36] We need to create, we need to invigorate a tax base so that it can, we sort of, we have

[2:33:46] an easier to have funding, either to obtain funding for these projects, so that the bond

[2:33:54] issue, so the bonds can be found, can be gone to either, this two-cent tax can be achieved

[2:34:02] easier because there's more people working because they have someone to live, like I said earlier.

[2:34:09] Because if you have a foundation at home and you're not worried about that, you can work.

[2:34:15] And when you work, you create tax, you create tax will income and that tax will income helps with two

[2:34:21] centax with Bala completes the circle. So I'm not going to disagree with anything they had to say.

[2:34:29] And then in the matter of fact, I'm going to sit there, get tabs number number number and

[2:34:33] let us ask if there's any way I can help them after this.

[2:34:36] That's all I got.

[2:34:37] Thanks.

[2:34:39] Thank you.

[2:34:40] Okay.

[2:34:40] We've got John Mitchell followed by the Laura Spaley.

[2:34:48] Hi.

[2:34:49] Liz Lasas who's the chair of the Planning Commission wanted to provide some brief come up for

[2:34:55] There are remarks as we're made way through the Lumo, she didn't just walk in the G.

[2:35:00] And she had to step out, and I happen to be in the neighborhood. So she asked me to speak on her behalf. So these are remarks on behalf of Liz on behalf of the Planning Commission. So kind of thank you.

[2:35:13] second degree of relief.

[2:35:15] First of all, Liz wanted to thank the staff and the particular task and Catherine who

[2:35:22] have been speaking at her meetings lately for their patients and thoroughness in describing

[2:35:30] this mattering of topics that we've spoken about.

[2:35:33] We've had some really constructive discussions, and that's great.

[2:35:40] Let's keep it going.

[2:35:43] Having said that, as I listened to the mayor and council number Ryan, discussed with Catherine and Taz here tonight, the question of, so what, you know, we have some directional consensus about a number of things that are really important.

[2:36:05] How does that translate into a strategic decision, not drafting, but a strategic decision that the drafting will carry out?

[2:36:15] And the Planting Commission has very little visibility into those strategic decisions at this point,

[2:36:21] and maybe that's to be expected because it's still early, but it feels like it's getting less early.

[2:36:29] And before the council breaks for the summer in a couple of months and the planning commission probably will do the same,

[2:36:37] the planning commission would be in a better position to do its job as we see it, which is to provide council and advice to the council on how the high-level strategic decisions for the lumo fit into the complete community framework and fit into all the other things we're doing.

[2:36:59] It's hard for us to do that without understanding the so-what early enough for us to sort

[2:37:06] of advise on it before the summer.

[2:37:09] So I just wanted to flag that and this may be totally understood by staff and there's a

[2:37:16] plan to sort of shift that part of the discussion, but there's an appetite for it on our

[2:37:24] site as it sounds like there may be on years.

[2:37:28] So with that, I will sit down.

[2:37:29] Thank you very much.

[2:37:30] Thank you.

[2:37:31] Oh, sure.

[2:37:32] The question.

[2:37:33] You said, as I listened to, and I just want to clarify that the comments,

[2:37:38] the wishes that you just expressed for that of the commission,

[2:37:42] and that of John Mitchell, who sits on the commission.

[2:37:48] The remarks that, so let me clarify, so I was just noting that some of the

[2:37:54] discussion that happened here tonight over a lack for the substance of what Liz was going to tell you. Okay. There's just a coincidence there. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So it is on behalf of the plan. Thank you.

[2:38:06] Okay. To Lawrence Bailey and that's the last person I have signed up.

[2:38:11] Good evening Madam Mayor council members. I'm to Lawrence Bailey. I will put on my hat as a community organizer for the neighborhood.

[2:38:19] with empowerment, I wanted to do a couple of things about the rummo. First, I've been around

[2:38:24] a long time and so I've seen this go on for a long time and want to appreciate the staff

[2:38:31] for bringing rummo to the community. So there are community meetings that we have every

[2:38:36] third Tuesday of the month and rummo was brought to us. I must admit it needs to be broken down

[2:38:42] some more so that people can understand what's going on but the important point is they do

[2:38:48] understand that LUMO affects our community.

[2:38:52] So I wanted to thank the staff for that.

[2:38:54] The other piece I wanted to mention was as the Darren

[2:38:57] mentioned before me, just the institutional racism

[2:39:00] that has been put that was already in the LUMO right now

[2:39:05] as it exists now.

[2:39:07] So I'm really interested in unpeeling some of that

[2:39:10] and figuring out how again, it relates to small communities

[2:39:14] like the Northside community and the Pino's community.

[2:39:16] What I do know is that there are owners, home owners, in nor side, who want to know how

[2:39:24] Lumo is going to help them.

[2:39:27] And that is something I would like to ask the staff to make sure that I know Lumo is coming

[2:39:32] back again for us, but please break it down just a little bit more so that they can understand

[2:39:39] how their properties are going to be affected, how their community is going to be affected

[2:39:42] as the Luma ordinances change, I know it's an affordable housing provider that's important

[2:39:49] and it's important that a piece that they're just mentioned is important. The equity piece

[2:39:55] is very important. This is our time to get it changed, to get it fixed and for the...

[2:40:00] Community to walk away, at least the panels and most likely to walk away, understanding what the rewrite of the

[2:40:07] Luma ordances mean to them. Thank you. Thank you. Is that it? That's it? That's it? Okay. Council, back to you. Council member,

[2:40:23] or knowledge followed by Council Member Ryan?

[2:40:26] I want to draw a through line between the habitat question earlier in the night, and

[2:40:32] Dolores has come at just now about neighborhoods and what will help them, because the

[2:40:37] thing that stood out to me during the habitat question was that there are two ways of looking

[2:40:42] at what is helpful in that situation. One is that we ensure that a house remains affordable

[2:40:47] at a location, and the other is that we provide an opportunity for someone to realize the

[2:40:53] profit on their property, and that those things are mutually exclusive in this situation.

[2:40:58] And when I think about Delores' question about what Luma will do to help people, to me,

[2:41:05] it's a different situation because it's not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[2:41:09] But one option is we have a Luma that enables people in certain neighborhoods to sell their property at a higher value

[2:41:15] because of what we are permitting to be built there, and then it stops being affordable.

[2:41:19] And another option is that we try to freeze things in place

[2:41:22] to this day's affordable.

[2:41:23] And I would be really curious to know

[2:41:25] when we're doing these ambassador sessions,

[2:41:27] if the community is saying what I want

[2:41:28] is to be able to sell my property and make a lot of money,

[2:41:31] or if they're saying what I want is for this community

[2:41:33] to remain in this geographic area,

[2:41:36] affordable in a certain way.

[2:41:37] I don't have an opinion yet about what I want,

[2:41:40] but I don't know what the community wants about that.

[2:41:43] And I would be interested in knowing that.

[2:41:46] And to ask where there are specific questions that you wanted us to address, I know one of them I think we got to, which was the interest in assisting affordable housing developers.

[2:42:03] I think you heard of, well, yes, but I think we already, I think you had a resounding yes on that.

[2:42:10] Was there anything else you needed some sort of head nod, thumbs up, something else?

[2:42:15] I thought there was, but I lost it.

[2:42:17] No, I think part of the goal here was to start to socialize some of these economic analysis

[2:42:25] right before we jump into the, before we jump into the so-what, so we get a chance to digest.

[2:42:31] And so as long as there is just kind of a general comfort with the analysis itself

[2:42:37] and no questions from y'all on a substantive level.

[2:42:41] There's no asks for that.

[2:42:43] No, that's fine.

[2:42:44] I didn't have a four council member.

[2:42:45] No, it was down.

[2:42:46] I just wanted to make sure you didn't need like a boop boop boop from us.

[2:42:50] Council member Ryan followed by council member Stegman.

[2:42:54] Okay, so just I know we're not doing design guidelines tonight,

[2:42:57] but just a couple of quick comments.

[2:42:59] The engineering and design manual is where a lot of rubber hits the road

[2:43:02] in terms of the details of making this stuff happen.

[2:43:05] And so I don't know if there's a plan for updating that, but that's going to be an important

[2:43:10] piece.

[2:43:10] Right now we have some very, very suburban street standards, for instance, that are going

[2:43:15] to fight against the kind of infill and things that we're trying to accomplish.

[2:43:19] So just to keep that on the radar.

[2:43:24] So I'm looking forward to the design standards and to having kind of one set of rules

[2:43:29] for the town instead of individually things.

[2:43:31] And again, I hope a street pallet is in there.

[2:43:34] I think that's going to be really important.

[2:43:36] So shifting to the affordable housing analysis, again,

[2:43:41] I thought the analysis you gave us was just great.

[2:43:44] Thank you very much for that.

[2:43:47] As you think about small scale, I know you're focused right now

[2:43:49] in housing, but it also could be in-field commercial.

[2:43:52] Some of these same things are going to apply to that.

[2:43:54] So I think that that's going to be, you know,

[2:43:56] especially in places like downtown.

[2:43:58] That's going to be really important to help think about them

[2:44:01] part of this whole thing.

[2:44:06] I think looking at how our regulations are standing in the way of getting

[2:44:10] more of the housing belt that we want. I know I've had developers come and say, look, I wanted

[2:44:13] to do two houses on this lot. I couldn't because of this, you know, my F.A.R. was off and that

[2:44:18] the other, and it was clearly a place where that would have worked well. So thank you for looking

[2:44:22] into that. I liked that we're going to start thinking about large development and small

[2:44:28] and fill differently, I think that that's very appropriate

[2:44:31] and not, I think we have a lot of good things to gain there.

[2:44:35] I think going by right on smaller in fill

[2:44:38] will make it possible.

[2:44:39] So I'm happy that we're going to do that.

[2:44:42] I think we have to remember that tonight was focused on housing,

[2:44:45] but there are also other important benefits that we get.

[2:44:48] So as we move towards that by right on smaller properties,

[2:44:51] we have to think about what are those other things,

[2:44:54] like our mobility pieces that we're trying to get.

[2:44:57] And then maybe as we look, as we look into it.

[2:45:00] Infill affordable, maybe we relax things there, but if we're looking at infill market, I think we need to strike that balance between what's going to work for the developer and make that infill possible, but also really keep up the values that we hold and those things that are important to us.

[2:45:17] So just as a general comment, I'm glad to hear that we're going to have more meetings, because I love more meetings on Lugo.

[2:45:27] I think, sorry guys, I can't help it, but I think I'm feeling like if you guys are going

[2:45:36] away from the summer saying we're getting ready to write and we really feel like we know

[2:45:40] where we're going. I feel like we still have some more discussion time that we need.

[2:45:45] You know, we still, I know we've been talking, you talked about having a lot of these things

[2:45:50] have been kind of constant themes during our discussions and I think that's true, but I feel

[2:45:55] like we've talked about them at sort of a thematic level

[2:45:58] and we haven't really hashed out so many things saying,

[2:46:02] you know, this is what's important to us

[2:46:04] if this is the direction we really want to go.

[2:46:08] So I would love to see before you guys actually start

[2:46:10] doing really detailed work that we have some more chances

[2:46:14] to have that discussion and I would love to have

[2:46:17] at some time before that break that you guys come to us

[2:46:20] and say this is what we've heard.

[2:46:21] These are the things, these are the important policy things

[2:46:24] that we've heard that you want.

[2:46:25] just so that we can go on that break feeling like we understand each other.

[2:46:29] I think that's going to be really important.

[2:46:31] Yeah, I was just going to say I heard the manager clears throat.

[2:46:36] But we are in conflict with them about,

[2:46:39] but the manager's office about how we can provide you

[2:46:42] doesn't more opportunities to do deep labs or to bring information

[2:46:45] to you as we're getting questions and we'll continue to work with them.

[2:46:49] So if there's a way for us to wrap up

[2:46:52] for, before June or during, in June, once we finish these work sessions and kind of summarise

[2:46:58] for you, if that could be helpful, we can talk about what the manager's always about ways to do.

[2:47:02] I think that would be super helpful. And again, it's not, it's not always going to be a deep

[2:47:06] dive just to make sure even at the high level that, you know, nine people are going to have different

[2:47:11] opinions, but that we have a council guidance that's that goes forward. That's clear. Thank you.

[2:47:18] Council Member Stegman?

[2:47:21] I thought it might Council Member Miller for you.

[2:47:25] Yeah, first of all, thank you.

[2:47:28] I was so excited to see the equity analysis.

[2:47:33] We kind of make reference to it and talk about it.

[2:47:36] But to have it all laid out point by point late.

[2:47:39] That was just so important, so powerful.

[2:47:41] and yeah, I think to Melissa's earlier point, more ways we can kind of help the community

[2:47:52] understand that that groundwork that we're going to be building from.

[2:47:57] Of like, it's not just out Chapel Hill or this council came up with this idea or, you know,

[2:48:05] sort of just that there's a lot of evidence and research and best practice that is under

[2:48:11] all of these things we're trying to do and trying to change and harms we're mitigating all of

[2:48:17] these things are just so important to this work. Say thank you for that. And I want to just

[2:48:24] mention this before, but just say that certainly for myself I have an appetite, you know, one of

[2:48:31] the things pointed out in the equity analysis was around the kind of what I would call overuse

[2:48:37] of neighborhood conservation districts, historic district boundaries, all of these things that are

[2:48:44] you know, definitely impact as a group of our early injuries and have been a barrier to

[2:48:52] Chapel Hill sort of naturally evolving the way it could have, say that we're not kind of trying

[2:48:59] to play catch up. So I certainly have an appetite to hear some ways that we could address some of

[2:49:06] that moving forward, ways we can balance some of the interests and needs, but really push

[2:49:14] for best practice in all the areas of the re-wraight.

[2:49:23] Yeah, certainly else.

[2:49:26] And, you know, a summary or some kind of thing at the end of before we break for summer,

[2:49:32] I'd be great, but I do feel like for myself that as we're having these sort of remote check-ins,

[2:49:39] I do feel like you're saying, here's the things we're thinking about getting that input from us,

[2:49:43] so I do feel like, I mean, I understand there's sort of an in-between step,

[2:49:49] but I do feel like we're kind of checking in as we're going on to a policy direction,

[2:49:55] and I appreciate that you're trying to keep us at that policy level.

[2:50:00] For me, it's working.

[2:50:04] Yeah, that's it for me. Thank you. Council member Miller, Frisci.

[2:50:09] Yeah, I'm struggling with trying to get my thoughts together, so I'm not scattered.

[2:50:14] But I'm very clear on having sat in on the planning commission presentation that you all did.

[2:50:22] You couldn't see me, but I was like, took zero in in my house.

[2:50:24] like this was like spot on and it's councilmember segment just stayed at the racial equity work

[2:50:33] that you're doing is so, so, so important and really happy to see that happening. I too share

[2:50:43] interests in looking at our neighborhood conservation districts. Can you remind me I know

[2:50:51] not question time, but how many neighborhood conservation districts do we have right now?

[2:50:58] There are 10 neighborhood conservation districts. And of those, how many allow for affordable

[2:51:04] housing to be built?

[2:51:08] As in terms of like the like restriction that doesn't really go by neighborhood

[2:51:14] conservation district in that way. Okay, so which neighborhood

[2:51:23] costs reservation district have we seen the most affordable housing

[2:51:26] building

[2:51:29] that I'd have to look into that but off the top of my head

[2:51:34] I've seen the most in north side and I could not just from

[2:51:40] of the housing stock in the other areas,

[2:51:44] name Uden Glenn Linux, I guess,

[2:51:47] but I think there's a master-releasing program in Glenn Linux.

[2:51:51] I'm raising these questions because I think it's something

[2:51:54] that we're talking about equity land use in communities.

[2:52:01] And just from my not even looking at the data,

[2:52:05] I don't see neighborhood conservation districts

[2:52:06] operating in the same ways

[2:52:08] that I've seen like the Northside Pineau's who understand this history of discriminatory housing

[2:52:16] practices. And it is imperative that we, when looking at our neighborhood, conservation districts,

[2:52:24] really look at the data and see how they are reflective of the way we're trying to move

[2:52:31] understanding of lead use. In the past just five years alone, I've seen, within the

[2:52:39] north side, pine nose, neighborhood conservation district, affordable housing being welcomed,

[2:52:48] no community pushed back with. And for me, that speaks to a value that we have, and it really,

[2:53:00] that conservation, what are we preserving when it comes to housing and that that's a really important

[2:53:10] comment for me in connection with the racial equity work that we're doing also want to talk

[2:53:20] to the community benefits for especially our small scale housing. I want to make sure that

[2:53:29] We don't use community benefits to

[2:53:32] wort any of our housing projects in general

[2:53:38] and really making sure that

[2:53:44] it's a tool

[2:53:48] that doesn't undermine our goals

[2:53:52] and you know, tested a really good job of

[2:53:56] illustrating how small-scale projects can't

[2:54:00] hold affordable housing, I think understanding that too in terms of community benefits is something

[2:54:08] that's important to me as well so that we're not forwarding what we're trying to do because

[2:54:14] housing is a benefit and sometimes small scale you know developments may not be able to provide

[2:54:24] the others benefit that we wouldn't normally see or bear the costs of that. I don't see that

[2:54:33] as giving up our values but really making sure that we're not using community benefits or the

[2:54:41] tools in a way that don't allow us to achieve our goals. Especially in a crippling housing

[2:54:50] before the ability crisis that we're in right now.

[2:54:53] And I think there was one other thing

[2:54:56] that I have to say, I think you all are...

[2:55:00] I want to really great job to our planning director, like your team is amazing. I feel like the updates that you all are giving. I too feel really good about it.

[2:55:15] I don't know what I'm hearing is like we're asking for to get feedback on things that haven't been drafted yet.

[2:55:24] And so, there were some concerns raised, and I'm hoping to be able to just off the day

[2:55:32] as talk to some of my colleagues about what it is that they're asking from you, but

[2:55:36] I feel comfortable with the process and where it is, the strategies, the keeping us high

[2:55:44] level, being able to give the feedback and everything, so this feels good to me.

[2:55:49] Um, I don't feel like I'm going to get, like you're going to, like we've been asking

[2:55:55] you not to do, like just dumping a whole bunch of stuff on us that once, I feel like

[2:56:00] these touches have been really, really important.

[2:56:03] And I think with what I'm here and we're going to get more and more of that, I do appreciate

[2:56:11] some help, like I did here from some of my colleagues, like helping us keep track of our

[2:56:16] and where we are. That would be really helpful. But you have work to do and I know we want

[2:56:24] to see where you're at in that work, but I know you can't give us something to look at until

[2:56:28] you had an opportunity to draft it yourself. This is great work. It's a lot of work. It's very intricate work.

[2:56:37] Thank you.

[2:56:40] Council member Barry.

[2:56:43] Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate this presentation. I appreciate

[2:56:47] the updates that you continue to bring to us. I'm going to jump off of what Councilmember

[2:56:53] Miller Fashay and Stegman just said. I do think that these updates are coming

[2:57:03] well enough for us. And I think some of the queries that have been posed

[2:57:07] are will be coming in future because you alluded to them will be forthcoming in future presentations.

[2:57:15] I did write down, because you know I take my notes of what is mean said, I did write down

[2:57:20] that the tempo will change and that we need to strap in. Like Councilmember or Mayor

[2:57:25] Protem, Ryan, I signed up for the meetings as well. For limo as well as budget and bond.

[2:57:34] So I'm good with more meetings in order to get it done. I'm not good with more meetings

[2:57:38] just to you. So I'll try to be more succinct here with

[2:57:46] regards to something that has been

[2:57:49] said tonight a couple of times. The notion that receiving subsidies from the town shackles you

[2:58:02] to not building generational wealth is an untenable and I'm paraphrasing here. This is what I've

[2:58:10] an untenable trade-off.

[2:58:13] Let me paint it for you differently.

[2:58:16] It provides housing.

[2:58:17] Now, I'm going to do this through the lens of being

[2:58:19] a former community home trust employee.

[2:58:23] You have an opportunity to buy low risk.

[2:58:30] And the return on that is low as well.

[2:58:34] So when you sell, you don't have

[2:58:36] this great appreciation as you put on the free market.

[2:58:39] But what you do have is stability, what you do have is a partner throughout, what you do have is a partner with the town as well.

[2:58:52] And it is, there are trade-offs.

[2:58:57] So if you want to be in the free market, then public assistance may not be the option for you,

[2:59:06] least not what the town offers and I really want my colleagues to learn more about the different

[2:59:12] affordable housing options that are offered by partners in this community so that we can

[2:59:18] understand better. Thank you.

[2:59:26] Other comments? Okay. I will wrap us up. I think you're hearing

[2:59:33] a lot of appreciation for the equity work and it's actually really exciting for us to have it

[2:59:38] I mean, in a meeting that we know there's been a lot going on in the organization for a couple

[2:59:42] years now, but to have it come to us and be part of our conversation, I think, very exciting.

[2:59:50] So, as some very disappointing things are happening in other places, we are going strong

[2:59:55] with our racial equity work. So thank you for that.

[3:00:00] I think one question I do abstuggling with myself is I know that there's a lot of things that we can build into ordinance that we don't have to negotiate for a period.

[3:00:14] We can require a lot of the things we want to require. There's only a couple that are really important to us that we maybe can't require that we would have to negotiate for.

[3:00:23] And I think one of those, one of the things is certainly affordable housing, but also one of our speakers spoke to it, which was affordable, affordable retail commercial, etc.

[3:00:35] So I would really like to understand that more and maybe there's something I'm missing that that's just not something that can be dealt with the same way affordable housing is, but I just would like to understand it better.

[3:00:46] So if I could come back, I think I am looking forward to seeing how this all fits together

[3:00:53] and how we are kind of working towards our complete community vision.

[3:00:59] I think the intention of these work sessions has been to keep us out of the weeds

[3:01:03] is to be at the policy level and I am not a planner but I am a policy analyst and I'm a policy

[3:01:08] professional and we always would have policy conversations before the work was done.

[3:01:13] that's just the order we have to be in in order to not be

[3:01:18] redoing everything at the end, so I really appreciate that you all have

[3:01:22] kept us at a policy level, but that also we've been having these

[3:01:25] conversations before the writing is happening.

[3:01:28] So I think it is really important that we kind of have a

[3:01:35] before we leave for the summer understanding where we are

[3:01:38] and sending you off and great shape to go to the very

[3:01:41] our Jewish work that is coming for you.

[3:01:45] And so I think it's just important that we understand

[3:01:49] we know what the Council kind of majority direction is

[3:01:53] that not individual council members,

[3:01:55] but that the Council with the majority has asked for

[3:01:57] and that that be how we be going off to the summer.

[3:02:01] I think it's really really helpful to have that analysis

[3:02:05] that it confirmed our understanding,

[3:02:07] which is we cannot density bonus

[3:02:10] affordable housing and that we want to do as much as administratively as we can but then there's

[3:02:17] this place of what do we do pass that point. I think the other thing that I'm really looking

[3:02:26] forward to talking about is kind of that public realm, third spaces, I know it's not just council

[3:02:33] on Burberry that cares about those, although she works at one, but, well, see, she's adding

[3:02:39] to her list, but I think really thinking about that public realm and sense of place is going

[3:02:46] to be really important.

[3:02:47] All this, that, of course, we are working toward, like, developers have told us, they need

[3:02:52] clarity and predictability, and they need some, a lot of to be, to be streamlined.

[3:02:56] And I also am very supportive of us figuring out the things that really just need to be

[3:03:03] administering.

[3:03:04] And then it has to be a higher bar than we've had, which is everything coming to us, which

[3:03:10] is untenable.

[3:03:11] And it's actually driving me crazy.

[3:03:13] So even for my own sanity, that would be delightful.

[3:03:15] But also, I really, for best outcomes, we know that.

[3:03:19] But also, really thinking about, you know, we agree on streamlining.

[3:03:24] we also really want to focus on those outcomes and the sense of place and also what are we

[3:03:30] really trying to be as a community in terms of those public spaces. And so I'm really looking

[3:03:36] forward to understanding more about that and then hearing from our CDC and the kind of good

[3:03:41] work that we combine with the other things that have already happened. I think finally I do agree

[3:03:48] with Councilmember Ryan that the engineering design manual is at least from my limited

[3:03:55] understanding has been getting in our way, often, of the good outcomes that we're looking

[3:03:59] for.

[3:04:00] Even when we set a really good modern standard, when our engineering design manual is not aligned

[3:04:06] with those standards, sometimes we don't get what we were hoping for, so I think it's really

[3:04:11] important that we be updating that as well.

[3:04:13] Um, so I think, um, we have, we have some time before the summer, um, but thank you.

[3:04:22] This is really, which we just say this every time, but it's such a huge lift and we appreciate

[3:04:27] you all and we do appreciate you coming to us, coming to planning and we're just looking forward

[3:04:32] to kind of putting it all together and having that so what conversation, um, before we break.

[3:04:38] but I know we can do it, so thank you so much staff, all of you, Council, that is the end of

[3:04:46] our meeting. We do not need any action on this item, so meeting is adjourned.

Town Council on 2024-04-24 6:00 PM

Agenda

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