[0:07] Just administrator.

[0:29] Can I make a motion where we have to add it? If if um

[0:38] » just to clear that up,

[0:43] » if all board members are believe this topic is done or there's

[0:49] more to discuss

[0:54] hearing none, I will the motion. >> I'd like to make a motion that we have

[1:01] official measurement from SC

[1:06] on the

[1:13] survey. Thank you.

[1:17] Uh to finally put that matter to rest as to where the measurement starts, where

[1:23] the measurement ends. Is there a gap between the right way and

[1:28] the property line?

[1:36] Is that how you like it? Seconded or is it more appropriate to be

[1:42] very specific and ask for the 37 and 12t of right away be displayed on the

[1:47] survey? I'd like them to outline the right way

[1:52] and complete I don't know 37.5

[1:58] the entire exact

[2:08] to the to the entire way the

[2:13] » entire roadway if there's any gap between the rightway

[2:18] the property

[2:30] The motion has been has been entered is for an official measurement to be placed

[2:35] on the survey to direct the entire

[2:43] to display the entire right of way. And if there is any gap between the property

[2:48] and the right way. Is that correct?

[2:53] » Is the motion second? Motion has been seconded. The board will

[2:58] now move into discussion.

[3:06] Clear any ambiguity gray area.

[3:13] Any

[3:17] additional comments from any >> I have one additional comment but not

[3:22] about that. I'd like to add clarification on is this on the side or

[3:26] is this in the front yard because we're reading um

[3:31] from planning that it's in the sideyard but they're saying it's but some are

[3:35] saying it's in the front yard. So we need clarification and the zoning

[3:39] ordinance the picture is not clear. >> So this sounds like you're forming a

[3:44] second motion. >> Let's focus on the first motion,

[3:48] an official measurement on the survey to to depict the entire right of way and if

[3:55] there is any gap between property and the right of way

[4:00] have no additional comments in the discussion phase of the motion. All

[4:04] those in favor of the motion signify by saying I. I. All those opposed signify

[4:09] by saying. The motion passes unanimously

[4:15] and board member Robinson if you'd like to enter that second motion to do that.

[4:20] » Yes. So the question is what is the definition of the sidewalk? Where where

[4:26] does it fall? If you look at 69 and 70 um it was only the picture is not clear

[4:35] and then also we got the interpretation clearly said um that

[4:42] because the fence is contained within the side yard. It can be higher than 4

[4:46] ft was the interpretation that we got on September the 26.

[4:51] So I think that's where we have to interpret because the zone importance

[4:56] does not clarify when those two overlap when the sideyard

[5:01] the front yard overlap which one takes precedence and I think

[5:05] that's what we have to come up with an interpretation with and then we can make

[5:09] a a recommendation to the plan

[5:14] commission um to say hey let's clear this.

[5:18] » Yeah it's definitely going to have to be clear because the Make sure the side lot

[5:22] line is all the way down the side from the back the front is only across the

[5:27] front. >> So

[5:31] pending because normally when you have a house that's

[5:37] sitting right say the house is sitt public form is is closed. So this is

[5:50] » clearly in the book that says the side lot line is all the way down from the

[5:55] back corner to the front door >> there. I think the way I would interpret

[6:03] that is the sideyard is shade area. You see the shade,

[6:10] » but the shade goes the it's also in the if you look to the left of that, see the

[6:17] picture on page 69. If you look to the left of that, the the sideyard set back

[6:22] is still in that liner shade. >> There is overlap between the sideyard

[6:28] and the front yard and the rear yard. So you will have the corners basically of

[6:35] that lot that's shown on face page 69. There is overlap between the front front

[6:40] yard and the side yard on the two front corners as well as overlap on the side

[6:45] yard and the rear yard and the two back corners um of that example. So that's

[6:51] where the issue is coming up as far as that you you know identify.

[6:57] » Yeah, I mean that's just me. It's been confusing. It's very hard to

[7:01] um clearly defined according to the the ordinance,

[7:06] » but there's no indication of any side yard

[7:12] from the front lot line to the 30 foot setback line.

[7:22] So between the front lot line and the 30 foot setback line

[7:31] that is clearly front yard. No question.

[7:37] Now the other area where that little sideyard

[7:43] um language appears in the sketch. Mhm.

[7:49] » is between the front yard setback

[7:54] which you see the buildable area >> and the actual building which is the

[8:00] house.

[8:04] So there's a question as to whether the see this house is not built quite up to

[8:10] the front setback line. It's back further than the front setback line.

[8:18] So there may be some question about the area between

[8:24] the 30 foot front setback and where the actual porch front porch

[8:31] starts and ends. But from the front lot line

[8:38] to the 30oot set line there is no question

[8:44] but that it is front yard. I would also point you to section 72A

[8:51] and it says the required front side and rear yards for individual lots shall be

[8:55] measured inward toward the center of the sid lot from all points along the

[9:00] respective front side and rear property lines of the lot or road rightway. So

[9:05] that clearly says that the the setbacks are measured inward from all property

[9:10] lines from all directions which again shows that overlap within those corners

[9:17] and in regards to the side fences and walls may extend to the

[9:23] property line. So we're not talking about moving the fence 30 ft into the

[9:27] property >> towards the house. I'm talking about

[9:30] just what piece of the fence needs to be reduced

[9:34] » to 4T to be in line with the correct

[9:53] that you have. It does not show

[10:01] doesn't show where the house is located in the lot. Would you agree with that?

[10:07] And it doesn't show where the 30 ft from the front

[10:13] lot line

[10:18] because that line that goes inward toward the middle of the lot I think is

[10:23] indicating a fence not a measurement

[10:33] as a line with the circles. >> Not sure what that is because the fence

[10:38] doesn't go in. It's just spray props according to the

[10:43] picture. >> What he's saying is when this was made,

[10:47] this isn't made based off of what's there now. It's made based on

[10:52] » it.

[10:58] The answer was a team was out there. But it doesn't display the

[11:03] » No, it doesn't display the bill. It doesn't display the house or where the

[11:07] We think that that three lines is supposed to indicate maybe where the

[11:10] fence ends, but not sure. >> There's a the fence continues towards

[11:14] the house. >> Actually, it says chain leaf.

[11:21] But if you look at the plat that was done of the lot, starting at the front

[11:27] line, which is on Cherry Lane,

[11:32] 30 ft backward from that

[11:37] front lot is front yard according to that sketch

[11:43] in 7.2. But it doesn't show on this map exactly

[11:48] where that is. So we take a measure from the point.

[11:54] » We made a motion to add the right away. Would you like to make a motion to

[11:58] consider adding the house and the 30ft set measurement on the survey?

[12:08] If you look at the picture, they don't match.

[12:23] » Is the board interested in the motion to do that?

[12:25] » Yes.

[12:31] I make a motion to have the the

[12:37] the house and the fence. Well, special measure from the setback.

[13:01] Motion has been made to add the house and the setback measurement.

[13:06] to the survey. Is the motion second? >> Second.

[13:12] » Discussion of the motion.

[13:20] Any any additional comments?

[13:24] Hearing none. All those in favor of adding the house and the setback

[13:28] measurement to the surveys, please signify by saying I.

[13:32] » I. Those signify by saying name.

[13:41] » That's not allowed. >> You got to make a decision.

[13:47] » So the motion does pass unanimously. Correct.

[13:49] » Yes. Correct. >> Okay.

[13:53] Now we are still in the board discussion. So we can we can consider

[13:56] other other items if you'd like.

[14:02] Do we want to discuss uh maybe coming up with some clarifying

[14:08] uh the verdage so we can avoid this in the

[14:12] future that we can provide to the zoning uh commission.

[14:16] » You're referring to recommending updates to the zoning ordinance.

[14:21] » Yes. >> Okay. Uh we can do that. I just want to

[14:25] focus right now on getting the fence moved

[14:29] » closed and then we can then we can consider that as well in this board

[14:32] discussion. Um does anyone want to make any other

[14:38] decision on the fence without seeing these updates to the survey or prefer to

[14:43] wait for the survey? We need to talk about anything about

[14:48] reducing the height of defense we can discuss anything else about the fence.

[14:55] » I don't think we can move any further except information and We have to define

[15:00] how we look at front versus side. We discussed that.

[15:06] » Yes. >> And how we want to define that

[15:10] diagram here. >> So,

[15:16] » so front rear, this is just a a basic recreation of what's in there. So, it

[15:20] really comes down to where we want what we want to do with these gray areas,

[15:26] particularly in front in this situation. So how do we want to interpret that?

[15:32] » So is the center is center is the center of the house.

[15:35] » This is the buildable area.

[15:40] » So I can tell you my interpretation is if it's on the side and it goes all

[15:45] the way to the front, it's part of the side. That's my interpretation

[15:53] based on the line you drew to the left extending extending to the north.

[15:58] right there. That's why you said that was the side based on that line there.

[16:03] » So this is just outline the gray areas or whatever. So that's the front. So

[16:09] straight both sides I'd say it goes up. It's part of the sign. I would consider

[16:14] this being the front. >> I understand that difference.

[16:19] » But I'm trying to get to the to the to the reasoning.

[16:23] » Is it? >> Yes. Because it's the that's the side

[16:27] lot line. >> Yes.

[16:29] » The state is is listed as a side lot. >> Yes.

[16:32] » Yeah. >> Because it's the side lot line

[16:36] » because in absence of clarifying guidance I go with the simplest

[16:42] explanation the most forward explanation. It's part of the side.

[16:46] Therefore it's the side. Now later on I said after this we get this resolve we

[16:51] can always clarify that and say what precedence over what

[16:56] but as of right now that's that's interpretation

[17:21] Is that interpretation in line with how the orders are written now

[17:26] based on the pictures?

[17:32] » I think it's okay

[17:38] because we could say, oh, we think they put the dots on there and we think this

[17:42] gray area is this, but There's nothing stating this is what X

[17:48] is.

[17:53] 72A identifies the language of how those are

[17:57] measured. The

[18:01] illustration shows something a little bit different. Typically

[18:07] illustrations are not the law. they are illustrative in nature and therefore if

[18:14] there's typically um an issue between or ambiguity between

[18:19] the language and an illustration the actual language is what supersedes the

[18:26] illustration. So

[18:29] if you however you feel I think you should

[18:34] should focus more on the language and then we can modify this picture or other

[18:40] to be more in line with what your the language you want to have if that makes

[18:45] sense.

[18:54] And would it would it be best to work on that

[18:57] before the next meeting and come with everybody come with ideas and

[19:00] suggestions at the next meeting >> for what we interpret to be a sign?

[19:06] » Yes. Do you that you want that fine tonight.

[19:11] » Well, if if the other board members need time and I'm okay with that.

[19:17] » I'm just giving you what what I That's all.

[19:24] » But if you interpret it that way, you don't need the measurements.

[19:31] » Well, that's just my interpretation. >> The whole front yard is the side yard.

[19:38] It doesn't matter

[19:42] where starts and ends

[19:53] for where the house is.

[20:14] My opinion is the the question is is

[20:19] where to me I I think that it's on the sideyard as well. But where should it

[20:25] start? Should it start 30 ft back? I don't think it does.

[20:31] You know, if they if they come in to say ft is that encroaching on the front yard

[20:38] if it goes past that set back that goes if it's closer than that set back of the

[20:44] require. So if it you know if you put a fence if you put a fence here that is

[20:49] your that is your side fence. But if you come too close, if you don't if you go

[20:54] past that 30 ft from right away, then you've

[20:59] brought too close and you're approaching on the front

[21:05] because you can build you could have a acre lot and you can build your house,

[21:10] the very back of your lot and still have your setback and there's no way that

[21:16] that you would put a, you know, that you would put your fish just around your

[21:19] little tiny backyard. To me, a front fence would be going

[21:23] across the front of your house.

[21:27] » So, the issue that you that you that you're discussing is a fence parallel to

[21:33] Cherry Lane.

[21:37] » You got the street and you got the street and you got fence.

[21:40] » You look at his drawing. >> Look at his drawing.

[21:44] » Yes. >> Across. If you see where he's got the F

[21:49] for front. >> Yes. If you put a fence across there,

[21:51] that's the front. That's a front fence. >> So, your definition, my definition are

[21:56] align. >> But yeah, but you can't but you can't

[22:00] build that fence, that side fence closer than 30 ft from the property line.

[22:04] That's a setback. >> You're talking about if we push too far

[22:06] this way. Yes. >> So, the only question I believe we're

[22:09] trying to address right now is what is front versus side.

[22:14] the encroachment thing. I think we've already tabled

[22:17] » to me. Anything that goes along the side of your property is your side.

[22:22] » To me, that's how it >> So, as the fences now,

[22:28] » you see that as being a side yard fence? >> With its height the way it is,

[22:34] » you see that as a side. >> I'm not I'm just make sure that it's

[22:38] clear. >> That is That's how I see it. is a

[22:41] sideyard fence and you know just does is it too

[22:48] is it too close to the property to the front property line

[22:53] » I feel like because of the setback >> setback yeah because the setback is 30

[22:58] ft is that right >> that's in addition to the right way

[23:04] » so so we're not trying to solve this without all the information

[23:12] think I can make a motion. >> Yes, absolutely.

[23:14] » Make a motion that hey, we will all come back at the next meeting with our

[23:20] individual interpretation of the front versus side

[23:26] and then we'll be able to take a vote on it then and we'll have all of the

[23:30] information theoretically uh necessary to make all the decisions at once.

[23:39] Anything else that we need?

[23:55] Jamie needs to know when she has to call the surveyor and spend $500 more dollars

[24:03] getting him out there to draw the house and the

[24:10] line that's 30 ft from the property line because it's, you know, it's going to

[24:16] cost money to do that project. So what she doing?

[24:22] » Can you give clarification? Is this the fence? Is this indicating

[24:27] the fence? And is that a measurement? I already know there.

[24:38] I'll send an email tomorrow and see if he can give me the clarification

[24:45] of what >> that perpendicular line.

[24:52] I can't even. And then how back how far back the

[24:57] house? No, just how how far back is the fence? Is this a fence? And what's the

[25:02] measurement between the right way or the property line and the fence? I

[25:07] think we have the property line fence for setback

[25:12] » what we asked for. >> I think the property line

[25:14] » we asked for was not representative of that. So that's

[25:19] an official measurement just

[25:30] an official measurement on the survey to depict the entire right away and if

[25:36] there is any gap between the property and the right

[25:44] that's privacy and it goes down to that spot

[25:53] And then and then it says here that that T is that foam box and the power pole.

[25:59] And then that little line right here, it shows that that is 9.4t

[26:05] of fence that extends into the rideway. So according to the survey,

[26:11] » that was the surveyor because I heally

[26:16] about that notation and I asked him if he could clarify how far he

[26:23] question on the 14th said it was not in the right way.

[26:27] » Yep. >> Yeah. But they were wrong. They didn't

[26:30] measure. >> Oh, they didn't measure it.

[26:32] » Oh, no.

[26:35] » The surveyor went out and found the iron pin that is on the corner of the lot

[26:42] » and the fence extended 9.4t ft beyond the iron pent. That is a measure on the

[26:50] ground. >> My initial question to do was here is

[26:53] your telephone pole. Does that not represent where your rideway line is?

[26:58] And they said typically, but it differs from place to place.

[27:02] » And the DK guy said that he runs by.

[27:08] » Okay. So now

[27:11] » now since we did not wait for the Additional motion that was made to be

[27:16] seconded. We've now moved completely away from what was originally decided.

[27:21] It was originally decided that the fence did not extend

[27:27] onto the right of weight. To confirm that, we

[27:30] asked for the measurement of this rider weight to be depicted on the survey.

[27:35] So, do all we need to ask is for the 37 1/2 ft be depicted on the survey.

[27:42] » So, you can send it out there. Well, they may not have to go out there. They

[27:46] may already know. See, there's they didn't put any

[27:50] measurements on these three lines. And that's that's the problem.

[27:53] » Yeah. Without going out there, he could indicate whether that front property

[27:58] line is the edge of the bottom. >> He can add that to the flat

[28:04] » probably inexpensively. >> Here's here's the issue. The u

[28:11] the fence does give most of the Yeah.

[28:16] » Okay. So, clarify for me what I'm asking. Um,

[28:22] Robert Blackie, who's a surveyor, clarification on what those three lines

[28:27] mean? Three drops on that line means what's the measurement? You want to know

[28:32] where the 37 ft go? >> It would be 37 and 12 ft on each side

[28:36] » depicted on each side onto on the survey >> from the center line.

[28:46] And I think what we're going to get is that the 30 based on the dotted line at

[28:49] the top that's the other 37 and 1/2 ft of the right

[28:54] equal down between the rightway and the south side.

[29:01] So in that case the the fence can does extend property line.

[29:09] So looking at that, does the board want to make a ruling on the a decision on

[29:14] the fence extending beyond the property line or does the board wish to wait the

[29:18] motions that have already been submitted?

[29:19] » I don't think it extends past the property line. I think it the question

[29:22] is it doesn't extend in the property line. It's the property line.

[29:29] » It extends past the property line whether it's in the waterway

[29:33] » or in a no man's land or what wherever it is. It does extend pass

[29:41] you would like to. Okay. So, we'll leave the motions

[29:44] as as they stood in the decisions that were made.

[29:48] We're looking for an official measurement on the survey to depict the

[29:53] entire ride away and if there is any gap between the property and the rightway

[30:01] that we entered another motion made a decision on adding the house and the

[30:04] setback measurement to the survey.

[30:10] So those will those will continue. Now if we were entertaining a third

[30:15] motion and that motion with board members return to our next meeting with

[30:20] interpretations of the front versus the side.

[30:24] » Yes. Is the motion second? Motion's been seconded. We enter the

[30:30] discussion phase of motion. Are there any other thoughts?

[30:35] All those in favor of board members returning to the next meeting with

[30:39] interpretations of the front versus sideyard signify by saying I. I. Those

[30:45] opposed signify by saying nay. The motion passes unanimously.

[30:57] Are there any other additional comments for the board discussion?

[31:05] I do have a question. >> Yes.

[31:09] » Was the appellent notified?

[31:16] » Um yes. Um the sign was put out by fence. It was also put on Facebook and

[31:24] our website and he called me this this morning and asked him what time the

[31:28] meeting was. So he is well aware. >> The sign for three weeks. I think

[31:35] » when we set another meeting, I think you need to mail him a notice of meeting and

[31:42] make sure that he is aware of the time and place of the

[31:47] meeting. I just noticed that the is not here

[31:51] tonight.

[31:57] » He showed up late. He came in late. But he did call me this morning and I

[32:01] did clarify what was on

[32:07] mail.

[32:11] » You have to take away that you didn't tell me when the meeting

[32:23] not heard any additional discussions. We've had the board motions during the

[32:27] board discussions.

[32:30] The stated final decision and the findings of effect have been presented

[32:33] in the review of the motions. Catch them all.

[32:44] The board will consider a motion to adjourn.

[32:48] » I will make a motion to this meeting. Motion to made second.

[32:55] All those in favor of journ say I. All those in signify by saying nay.

[33:02] Leading is

[33:06] good everybody. You guys

[33:19] » they're still there on both sides of the fence.

[33:21] » They're still there. Before the metal leaf, do you want to set up the

[33:25] potentially walk? >> Yeah.

[33:27] » Yeah.

Zoning Board of Appeals

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