[0:01] going to call this meeting to order at

[0:03] 202

[0:05] beginning with a territorial

[0:07] acknowledgement. We acknowledge this

[0:09] meeting is being held on the traditional

[0:12] territory of the Sanich nations.

[0:15] Moving on to adoption of the agenda.

[0:17] Could I get a motion meeting agenda

[0:21] today? June 2nd. Eric seconder Jamie.

[0:25] All in favor?

[0:27] Great. Thank you.

[0:29] Next, adoption of the minutes from April

[0:32] 7th. Can I get a motion to adopt? Kelly

[0:35] secondary Eric.

[0:38] All in favor?

[0:41] Um, next uh item on the agenda is

[0:44] development permit for 966

[0:47] Street. Before we get started, Councelor

[0:49] Duck, do you have any directions from

[0:52] council that you want to share?

[0:54] >> Um, no. This one was pretty

[0:55] » Um, no. This one was pretty

[0:55] straightforward. staff have done a good

[0:57] job on it and there's no real concerns

[1:00] or issues that council identified um

[1:05] a large on the block and post it. This

[1:10] came in conjunction with another

[1:11] development wasn't so unfortunate to get

[1:14] moved ahead but this one was

[1:17] there was any issues and I don't there's

[1:20] nothing that council said to this recall

[1:23] >> no I don't recall any any

[1:25] » no I don't recall any any

[1:26] >> n I did watch the council discussion

[1:29] » n I did watch the council discussion

[1:29] there was a few questions but nothing

[1:33] >> great Allison introduction

[1:35] » great Allison introduction

[1:35] >> okay so this is a development permit

[1:37] » okay so this is a development permit

[1:37] application for a 4unit residential

[1:39] development on this property on 6th

[1:42] Street, 96166.

[1:44] It's on the south block of 6 on the west

[1:47] side just north of Ocean Avenue down

[1:50] close to Iraq Park. There's an existing

[1:53] single family house on the property that

[1:54] would be removed to make way for this

[1:56] new development. As was just mentioned,

[1:58] no variances are being requested. It

[2:01] meets the zoning bylaw. So there'd be

[2:02] two units in the front that two stories

[2:05] that would look kind of like a

[2:06] conventional duplex and then in the back

[2:09] there would be a building with two

[2:11] singlecar garages on the main floor and

[2:13] two dwelling units above the garages. At

[2:15] the committee of the whole meeting the

[2:17] applicant indicated that the plan is to

[2:20] stratify the the development into two

[2:23] units per strat lot. Essentially half of

[2:26] the duplex building and half of the back

[2:27] building. Um they could do that. they

[2:30] could change their plan and stratify it

[2:31] into four units. It's the zoning bylaw

[2:33] permits either. So, it's can be any any

[2:36] strata layout that the property owner

[2:39] wants to do. Uh there's one protected

[2:41] oak tree in the front yard that is being

[2:44] retained through the design. The

[2:46] applicants made steps to push the

[2:48] building back from that corner and work

[2:49] with the project arborist and the town's

[2:51] parks department to try to protect that

[2:52] tree through the redevelopment. All the

[2:55] four required parking spaces would be

[2:57] accessed off the lane in the back.

[3:00] Selena did a review here in the report

[3:02] of the development against the design

[3:04] guidelines and you can see that it

[3:05] complies really well with the

[3:06] guidelines. There were none that we

[3:08] wanted to highlight for better um or for

[3:11] changes to the plans to better address

[3:13] those guidelines. So the recommendation

[3:15] is just to that it be approved with one

[3:18] condition uh that there be a landscape

[3:20] or yeah deposit taken to secure the hard

[3:25] and soft on-site landscaping before a

[3:27] building permit is issued.

[3:29] >> Yeah.

[3:30] » Yeah.

[3:30] >> Okay. Thank you. Going to turn it over

[3:32] » Okay. Thank you. Going to turn it over

[3:32] to the applicant. It's all yours.

[3:35] >> It's all me.

[3:36] » It's all me.

[3:36] >> Your presentation is all you

[3:38] » Your presentation is all you

[3:38] >> I don't have much to to present to be

[3:40] » I don't have much to to present to be

[3:40] honest. Um, we stayed uh within the

[3:43] guidelines like like you guys uh

[3:45] mentioned to there's no variances. So,

[3:46] we just tried to make everything work

[3:48] within the guidelines that were given to

[3:51] make it easy on staff, make it on easy

[3:52] on every everybody around uh in the

[3:54] situation. So, the designer, Tara, was

[3:56] supposed to come here, but she's just

[3:58] running. I dropped the ball a little

[3:59] bit. She was supposed to last minute

[4:01] meeting, but she had one from 1 to two.

[4:03] She might run in here in a little bit,

[4:04] but uh other than that, we're uh yeah,

[4:07] it's [snorts] project that I'm kind of

[4:09] happy with and I think it's a good

[4:11] alternative to not against forplexes or

[4:14] anything like that, but I think it's a

[4:15] nice fitting design to complement the

[4:18] area and still give additional living

[4:20] space for um other other, you know,

[4:24] population. So,

[4:26] >> okay, thank you. And Terry shows up. Is

[4:29] » okay, thank you. And Terry shows up. Is

[4:29] that

[4:31] >> I don't think she wasn't bringing

[4:32] » I don't think she wasn't bringing

[4:32] anything. You're just going to talk and

[4:33] for say mine. So,

[4:35] >> all right. I'm going to turn it back to

[4:37] » all right. I'm going to turn it back to

[4:37] the commission then. Questions,

[4:40] comments.

[4:41] [clears throat]

[4:46] » Not clear why it's here. Pardon me. I'm

[4:49] not clear why that

[4:52] was. That was also

[4:53] >> forming character.

[4:54] » forming character.

[4:54] >> That's because it's a form of character

[4:56] » That's because it's a form of character

[4:56] that is that concern. It's because it's

[4:58] four units and it's a form and character

[5:01] development permit application and so

[5:03] those are usually by council council

[5:05] refers those to APC for review against

[5:07] the design guidelines. So they don't

[5:09] just come to APC when there's variances

[5:11] and sometimes a variance will come to

[5:12] council and it has nothing to do with

[5:14] form and character and doesn't come to

[5:16] APC at all. Okay. So it's because it's

[5:18] the development the major development

[5:19] permit application.

[5:20] >> Alison maybe I could just jump in and

[5:22] » Alison maybe I could just jump in and

[5:22] just for the other question members

[5:24] maybe just uh give them an overview.

[5:26] This is a smooth development. So

[5:29] >> yeah. So this

[5:29] » yeah. So this

[5:29] >> you want to talk about that just for a

[5:30] » you want to talk about that just for a

[5:30] sec?

[5:31] >> Yes. So this is a development that

[5:33] » Yes. So this is a development that

[5:33] wasn't like in the zoning bylaw. The

[5:36] zoning by was changed in 2024 to come in

[5:38] line with the provincial legislation for

[5:40] small-cale multi-unit housing. So this

[5:43] type of development wouldn't have been

[5:45] permitted before that. They would have

[5:46] had to subdivide the property to do two

[5:48] small houses each of which could have a

[5:50] secondary suite. But with that change in

[5:52] legislation and our change in the zoning

[5:54] bylaw, properties this size, like this

[5:56] one's 520 square meters, I think, um

[5:59] it's over 280 square meters, which is

[6:02] the threshold that the provincial

[6:03] government established for properties

[6:05] 280 mters and over can be developed with

[6:07] up to four residential units in BC if on

[6:10] that property you could only do a single

[6:12] family house or a duplex per four. So,

[6:14] this does fall under that small scale

[6:16] multi-unit housing type that the provinc

[6:18] has changed the legislation to allow

[6:20] everywhere. Um, yeah, the the number of

[6:24] units was permitted before, but they had

[6:27] to go through subdivision to get it and

[6:28] people don't have to do that anymore.

[6:30] So, we're starting to see more variety

[6:32] of housing types and sizes and forms.

[6:34] You probably all saw the one under

[6:36] construction around the corner just on

[6:38] Orchard,

[6:40] one block up and a little further west

[6:41] between 7th and 8th. That's a twostory

[6:45] four-unit building all attached. It kind

[6:46] of looks like a little townhouse.

[6:48] >> This is a different form of four units.

[6:53] » Yeah, I I would anticipate that there's

[6:56] not a lot of dialogue related. I think

[6:58] uh it it's

[7:00] a reasonable uh alternative to the site

[7:04] that's well done from the constraints

[7:05] that exist. Uh so for lack of anything

[7:09] too much to say, I'd throw in a couple

[7:11] of comments. One which is kind of a pet

[7:14] concern that I have is with respect to

[7:16] the location of the heat pumps and it's

[7:19] just that heat pumps tend to have a lot

[7:21] of vibration. They also have a lot of

[7:22] noise and it's right beside the bib.

[7:26] >> Now I know there's different levels,

[7:27] » Now I know there's different levels,

[7:27] different qualities of heat pumps. I've

[7:29] gone through that myself. So maybe some

[7:32] consideration for that.

[7:35] >> Yeah, the uh my brother actually works

[7:37] » Yeah, the uh my brother actually works

[7:37] in the heat pump industry. So he's

[7:39] >> he'sing it out for me. So the units that

[7:42] » he'sing it out for me. So the units that

[7:42] they have, the slim the slim units now,

[7:44] they're very very quiet and they have

[7:46] variable speeds, right?

[7:47] >> So you may hear them I mean at night

[7:49] » So you may hear them I mean at night

[7:49] it's

[7:50] >> our coolest temperature. [clears throat]

[7:51] » our coolest temperature. [clears throat]

[7:51] >> Um a heat pump working heavily in the

[7:53] » Um a heat pump working heavily in the

[7:53] daytime such as today.

[7:55] >> Uh would be kicking on a little bit

[7:56] » Uh would be kicking on a little bit

[7:56] louder, but I mean there's lots of noise

[7:59] pollution around there to you know

[8:01] >> damper that sound. So, uh, if it was

[8:04] » damper that sound. So, uh, if it was

[8:04] your basic, uh, you know, two foot x two

[8:06] foot, um, uh, vertical fan spinning, it

[8:10] would it would be much louder. So,

[8:14] >> yeah. So, it on on the plans, it's it

[8:16] » yeah. So, it on on the plans, it's it

[8:16] does uh spec out these um these wall we

[8:20] have to wall mount them because of the

[8:22] FCL

[8:23] >> and

[8:25] » and

[8:25] given how small they are, we are able to

[8:27] do that. And because of how small they

[8:29] are, they have the option of the

[8:30] variable speed to keep the noise down.

[8:32] So they'll be way below the I'm not sure

[8:34] if city has a decibel rating for them.

[8:38] >> Yeah, they'd be way way below that

[8:41] » Yeah, they'd be way way below that

[8:41] >> for sure.

[8:42] » for sure.

[8:42] >> Uh the only other comment I guess I I

[8:44] » Uh the only other comment I guess I I

[8:44] think uh Alison I remember a comment

[8:46] about more

[8:48] uh cover over the uh

[8:52] upper level exit or entrance from the

[8:56] garage areas above. and and I would just

[9:00] in terms of the long run stair

[9:03] protect it's the emergency exit as well

[9:08] >> slippery conditions

[9:09] » slippery conditions

[9:09] >> I'm sorry where where are we where

[9:11] » I'm sorry where where are we where

[9:11] >> coming down from the the units above the

[9:12] » coming down from the the units above the

[9:12] garage you got straight run stair

[9:16] >> just cover over that to protect them a

[9:18] » just cover over that to protect them a

[9:18] little bit uh more I think there was a

[9:20] comment that

[9:22] >> staff had made

[9:24] » staff had made

[9:24] >> okay so over here

[9:26] » okay so over here

[9:26] >> ees uh projecting out a little farther.

[9:28] » ees uh projecting out a little farther.

[9:28] I mean, if the staircase is out that

[9:30] far,

[9:31] >> there's no reason the ees can, but we'll

[9:32] » there's no reason the ees can, but we'll

[9:32] we'll look at it that for sure.

[9:34] >> Yeah. Whether it's connected with the

[9:35] » Yeah. Whether it's connected with the

[9:35] eve or or something, maybe some

[9:38] consideration of that.

[9:39] >> Okay.

[9:40] » Okay.

[9:40] >> Thank you.

[9:42] » Thank you.

[9:42] >> And that's it.

[9:43] » And that's it.

[9:43] >> Anybody else could probably jump in?

[9:45] » Anybody else could probably jump in?

[9:45] >> Hey, Jamie.

[9:47] » Hey, Jamie.

[9:47] >> A couple things. Um I I agree with the

[9:50] » A couple things. Um I I agree with the

[9:50] awnings over the um carriage houses

[9:52] entrances. Uh the um other thing I was

[9:58] um I noticed with the lighting I don't

[10:00] know if you can bring the picture up but

[10:01] uh the lighting on the orchard side or

[10:04] sorry the sixth street side. Um

[10:06] >> you remember which planet it was on?

[10:07] » you remember which planet it was on?

[10:07] >> Uh not off the top. It's

[10:11] » Uh not off the top. It's

[10:11] >> lighting in the front yard.

[10:12] » lighting in the front yard.

[10:12] >> Yeah, it'll probably be higher up. I

[10:14] » Yeah, it'll probably be higher up. I

[10:14] think earlier in the document

[10:18] >> elevation there.

[10:18] » elevation there.

[10:18] >> Yeah, the front elevation.

[10:22] » Yeah, the front elevation.

[10:22] Uh

[10:24] you see that um if you go down one that

[10:27] rendering there the top left I think is

[10:30] easiest to see it

[10:31] >> here.

[10:31] » here.

[10:31] >> Yeah. So it's got the there's two um

[10:35] » Yeah. So it's got the there's two um

[10:35] lights on the front which I think those

[10:36] will look nice but my concern was that

[10:38] the actual entrance way itself looks

[10:40] like the light would probably not reach

[10:42] around that corner.

[10:43] >> There'll be there'll be a light inside

[10:44] » There'll be there'll be a light inside

[10:44] the sopet

[10:46] that's required by the building code.

[10:48] Oh, is it okay?

[10:49] >> Have a porch light

[10:50] » Have a porch light

[10:50] >> and then that will also be like where

[10:51] » and then that will also be like where

[10:51] the uh address will be as well. They

[10:54] will be illuminated and roughly where

[10:56] that light is is somewhere where the

[10:57] address is going to be. Just

[10:58] >> perfect.

[10:59] » perfect.

[10:59] >> Yeah.

[10:59] » Yeah.

[10:59] >> Yeah. Okay, cool. And that goes into the

[11:01] » Yeah. Okay, cool. And that goes into the

[11:01] main bedroom, right?

[11:02] >> That's the front of the house. So,

[11:04] » That's the front of the house. So,

[11:04] that's the living room at the very

[11:05] front. The bedrooms are actually Sorry.

[11:07] Yeah, the bedrooms are actually at the

[11:08] at the rear.

[11:09] >> Yeah.

[11:09] » Yeah.

[11:10] >> Um

[11:12] » Um

[11:12] way. Sorry.

[11:13] >> Sorry if I get up here.

[11:16] » Sorry if I get up here.

[11:16] >> The front down here.

[11:17] » The front down here.

[11:17] >> Yeah. Uh so this will be the entry and

[11:18] » Yeah. Uh so this will be the entry and

[11:18] this is our the front sitting area,

[11:20] dining room, uh closet walk up the

[11:23] stairs. There's a little bar, kitchen,

[11:25] uh laundry, powder room, closet,

[11:28] >> and

[11:29] » and

[11:29] >> that's a door at the back.

[11:29] » that's a door at the back.

[11:30] >> Door at the back to the a patio of some

[11:32] » Door at the back to the a patio of some

[11:32] sort. Um

[11:33] >> that will be and right behind there will

[11:35] » that will be and right behind there will

[11:35] be the uh the garage starting up the

[11:37] garage. So

[11:39] um yeah, that's layout. So the upstairs

[11:42] uh there is bedroom up at the very top

[11:44] and at the rear and then a loft area as

[11:47] well. So

[11:48] >> sorry I know it's in here but just the

[11:49] » sorry I know it's in here but just the

[11:49] distance between the master bedroom's

[11:51] door and the start of the driveway for

[11:53] the carriage house

[11:55] >> start of the driveway or the patio

[11:57] » start of the driveway or the patio

[11:57] >> uh

[11:59] » uh

[12:00] go to

[12:01] >> site plan

[12:02] » site plan

[12:02] >> the site plan. So, [clears throat] this

[12:05] » the site plan. So, [clears throat] this

[12:05] would roughly be where that door is

[12:09] >> in here somewhere.

[12:10] » in here somewhere.

[12:10] >> Right here.

[12:11] » Right here.

[12:11] >> I see.

[12:12] » I see.

[12:12] >> And then this is the patio area. Their

[12:14] » And then this is the patio area. Their

[12:14] own private space. And then

[12:18] >> yeah, the garage the garage is that way.

[12:23] » The distance there is between those two

[12:26] is four meters I think it is. Or is it

[12:29] two or sorry one?

[12:30] >> It seems to show 1.2 two and 1.51. So

[12:34] » It seems to show 1.2 two and 1.51. So

[12:34] 2.7.

[12:35] >> Yeah, it does meet the code. And then we

[12:37] » Yeah, it does meet the code. And then we

[12:37] had to

[12:38] >> we we were trying to get it

[12:41] » we we were trying to get it

[12:41] I would say closer but we had to play

[12:43] with really specific numbers because the

[12:44] fire rating that we had to do um and the

[12:46] glazing so with the windows. So in case

[12:50] because they are two separate dwellings.

[12:52] >> Oh yeah.

[12:52] » Oh yeah.

[12:52] >> So we have to

[12:53] » So we have to

[12:53] >> the numbers are tight but they work.

[12:58] » Few more just minor things. Um, uh, just

[13:01] along the same lines as what, um, David

[13:03] was saying about the, uh, heat pump

[13:04] positions. Um, I wasn't so concerned

[13:06] about the noise, but I was thinking the

[13:08] walkway like along the side of the

[13:10] house. Um, it's just the position of the

[13:12] heat pump looks like. It might be kind

[13:13] of awkward to walk around. I don't know

[13:15] how the width of the walkway compares

[13:17] with

[13:18] >> 2 m. 2 me.

[13:19] » 2 m. 2 me.

[13:20] >> It's 2 me. Yeah. And they would protrude

[13:21] » It's 2 me. Yeah. And they would protrude

[13:21] any out farther than any of the eaves.

[13:23] >> Yeah. Okay.

[13:23] » Yeah. Okay.

[13:23] >> So, it's within that uh there. So,

[13:26] » So, it's within that uh there. So,

[13:26] >> okay.

[13:26] » okay.

[13:26] >> Yeah. 2 m. That's

[13:28] » Yeah. 2 m. That's

[13:28] >> Yeah.

[13:28] » Yeah.

[13:28] >> Six feet almost. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. In my

[13:30] » Six feet almost. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. In my

[13:30] head I was trying to picture like is it

[13:32] an wheelbarrow and

[13:35] do that.

[13:36] >> Okay. Then the other thing was just

[13:37] » Okay. Then the other thing was just

[13:37] super minor. Um I noticed on that block

[13:40] there's quite a few uh entrances where

[13:42] the doors are nice colors like there's

[13:43] reds and blues and stuff like that and I

[13:45] thought that could uh break up the gray

[13:47] scale of the front of the sixth street

[13:48] entrance

[13:50] >> to uh consider maybe a bit of color on

[13:51] » to uh consider maybe a bit of color on

[13:51] the doorway.

[13:52] >> We were considering um a wood stained

[13:54] » We were considering um a wood stained

[13:54] door.

[13:54] >> Oh yeah. Okay. Um, that's something that

[13:56] » Oh yeah. Okay. Um, that's something that

[13:56] we can probably revise on on the

[13:58] submission to the building.

[14:00] >> Yeah.

[14:00] » Yeah.

[14:00] >> We go.

[14:01] » We go.

[14:01] >> I mean, that's a a good option as well.

[14:02] » I mean, that's a a good option as well.

[14:02] >> Yes. Just neutral colors. Yeah. Uh,

[14:04] » Yes. Just neutral colors. Yeah. Uh,

[14:04] we're not looking for like a red or a

[14:06] pink or a blue door. No offense.

[14:07] Anybody's got one of those ice down,

[14:09] >> but yeah, you're right. Just something

[14:10] » but yeah, you're right. Just something

[14:10] that just adds a little bit of,

[14:11] >> you know.

[14:12] » you know.

[14:12] >> Yeah. A little more interesting than

[14:13] » Yeah. A little more interesting than

[14:13] just a gray or white. Yeah.

[14:16] Um,

[14:22] and now I noticed there was um drainage

[14:25] for the driveways in front of the

[14:27] garage, but is there any consideration

[14:29] for like do they come up with permeable

[14:31] surfaces for those because I know a lot

[14:33] of developments we'd like to go with

[14:34] permeable driveways, right?

[14:36] >> Um, in the driveways in the front or

[14:39] » Um, in the driveways in the front or

[14:40] exterior sideyard, do you have a

[14:41] restriction on how much of those yards

[14:45] and that anything over 30% up to the

[14:47] maximum of 50 has to be permeable. Okay.

[14:50] >> These are in the rear yard off the lane.

[14:51] » These are in the rear yard off the lane.

[14:52] And so there's the two full parking

[14:53] spaces

[14:55] >> and then the two kind of short driveways

[14:57] » and then the two kind of short driveways

[14:57] leading to the garages.

[14:58] >> Yeah.

[14:59] » Yeah.

[14:59] >> Um

[15:00] » Um

[15:00] >> Okay. So they're under that threshold.

[15:02] » Okay. So they're under that threshold.

[15:02] >> I can't recall if they are permeable or

[15:07] » I can't recall if they are permeable or

[15:07] concrete.

[15:07] >> I believe it's a concrete. The driveway

[15:09] » I believe it's a concrete. The driveway

[15:09] is concrete with the drains and there's

[15:11] the the

[15:13] >> uh I don't know how you want to define

[15:15] » uh I don't know how you want to define

[15:15] permable surfaces right now. They're

[15:18] >> seem to be kind of changing on the fly.

[15:20] » seem to be kind of changing on the fly.

[15:20] So we have concrete pavers that will

[15:22] have permable sand in between them

[15:25] >> um within the patio area

[15:27] » um within the patio area

[15:27] >> there. So and that was all um

[15:30] » there. So and that was all um

[15:30] >> calculated and design in the design as

[15:33] » calculated and design in the design as

[15:33] well with the storm water management

[15:34] system they were doing [clears throat]

[15:36] that was all looked at as well.

[15:37] >> Okay. Yeah. as long as there's

[15:38] » Okay. Yeah. as long as there's

[15:38] consideration for that.

[15:39] >> Thank you.

[15:40] » Thank you.

[15:40] >> Yeah.

[15:41] » Yeah.

[15:41] >> Um

[15:43] » Um

[15:43] and then this is kind of a unique one to

[15:45] your site. Um not the building itself,

[15:48] but I noticed that uh there's been a um

[15:50] really nice wood carving out on the

[15:52] boulevard facing Sixth Street. Do you

[15:54] have any plans for that? Because it

[15:55] feels like it'd be a nice thing to keep

[15:56] or maybe to donate to the town for a

[15:58] park or something if you don't want it.

[15:59] >> Yeah, it's actually it's it's it's being

[16:02] » Yeah, it's actually it's it's it's being

[16:02] >> it's being sawed down as we speak.

[16:04] » it's being sawed down as we speak.

[16:04] >> Is it okay?

[16:05] » Is it okay?

[16:05] >> Yeah. So, they were there I was there

[16:07] » Yeah. So, they were there I was there

[16:07] right before that. So, as soon as I kind

[16:08] of get out, I'll go see how they're

[16:10] doing. There's the holly that was

[16:12] removed. Okay.

[16:13] >> Um, and the guys are just kind of tuning

[16:15] » Um, and the guys are just kind of tuning

[16:15] that up. And, um, they they know Capital

[16:18] Tree Service is doing it. And there's

[16:19] three guys there and they're they are

[16:21] uh, hacking it down from there. I'm

[16:22] picking it up later today. Okay. We'll

[16:24] see what we can we can do with that. So,

[16:26] there's a Viking lady on the front and a

[16:27] Viking on the rear.

[16:29] >> Um, we've knocked on it a little bit and

[16:31] » Um, we've knocked on it a little bit and

[16:31] it is quite hollow, so they know to be

[16:34] careful. I'm hoping it can stay in one

[16:35] piece and we'll see what we can do with

[16:36] that. We did think about that as well.

[16:38] So,

[16:38] >> yeah, I just thought it was kind of one

[16:39] » yeah, I just thought it was kind of one

[16:39] of those things where you go down that

[16:40] street and it's like, "Oh, that's sort

[16:41] of neat."

[16:42] >> Yeah. Yeah. I also have about 2,000

[16:44] » Yeah. Yeah. I also have about 2,000

[16:44] books if anyone's interested. Uh, that

[16:47] came with the house and a thousand

[16:49] another set of books. So, maybe I'll

[16:51] drop copies off for you guys.

[16:52] >> Yeah.

[16:53] » Yeah.

[16:53] >> The next meeting.

[16:54] » The next meeting.

[16:54] >> I'm not sure what to do with them to be

[16:55] » I'm not sure what to do with them to be

[16:56] honest with you. I might have to donate

[16:57] to a school and open ideas, but there's

[17:00] 50 boxes of brand new books.

[17:02] >> Well, that's it for me.

[17:05] » Well, that's it for me.

[17:05] >> Okay. I've got a few comments. Um, I

[17:08] » Okay. I've got a few comments. Um, I

[17:08] usually try to stay away from commenting

[17:10] on interior layouts, but those carriage

[17:13] units are really really tight in my

[17:17] opinion

[17:17] >> in in uh retrospect to the bed.

[17:20] » in in uh retrospect to the bed.

[17:20] >> Yeah. Sort of this this the use of the

[17:22] » Yeah. Sort of this this the use of the

[17:22] space. Like for example, there's no, as

[17:25] far as I can tell, there's no storage

[17:27] room, right?

[17:30] They've got any anything they need to

[17:33] store. I'm not sure where they would

[17:34] store those.

[17:36] Um I I I guess what I'm getting at is

[17:40] that they're only 300.

[17:42] >> It's like a hotel room.

[17:43] » It's like a hotel room.

[17:44] >> Yeah, exactly.

[17:45] » Yeah, exactly.

[17:45] >> So from my perspective, when it's that

[17:48] » So from my perspective, when it's that

[17:48] tight,

[17:50] they you really have to put some extra

[17:53] effort into making them as livable as

[17:55] possible. Mhm. [clears throat]

[17:56] >> So, I don't know if there's a way that

[17:58] » So, I don't know if there's a way that

[17:58] you can incorporate storage cuz from

[18:00] looking at the floor plans, I don't know

[18:02] where you

[18:02] >> There there actually was I was pondering

[18:05] » There there actually was I was pondering

[18:05] this idea. Um

[18:08] there's this angled wall right here.

[18:10] >> Yeah.

[18:11] » Yeah.

[18:12] >> Um we were talking about having this go

[18:14] » Um we were talking about having this go

[18:14] out a little further and just because

[18:16] this furniture is laid out here, it's

[18:18] not necessarily going to be there. Um

[18:20] like we had designed there was going to

[18:22] be uppers and we thought maybe we do a

[18:23] kitchen island right there which would

[18:26] give just some more open space but then

[18:28] you don't have a round table that you

[18:30] know you don't need a table for four for

[18:32] living of one. Um so there was going to

[18:35] be an island there and but

[18:37] [clears throat] we can work on this and

[18:38] we thought that we would maybe bring

[18:39] this out to here which would give some

[18:41] optional space here or bring this out

[18:44] here have this out here. This could be

[18:46] the space and then you know you put your

[18:47] TV there mounted. So there is a little

[18:49] bit of area and room right here to uh to

[18:52] accommodate that.

[18:53] >> Whatever you could do builtins or or

[18:56] » Whatever you could do builtins or or

[18:56] something because people will have stuff

[18:59] >> garage

[19:01] » garage

[19:01] they don't have access.

[19:03] >> Well this area like yeah like this area

[19:05] » Well this area like yeah like this area

[19:05] here what is the measurement here? This

[19:06] is 3 foot six. So

[19:08] >> 3T by another three foot that can give

[19:10] » 3T by another three foot that can give

[19:10] you know at least a broom closet.

[19:11] >> Okay.

[19:12] » Okay.

[19:12] >> Um and then there was talks of

[19:13] » Um and then there was talks of

[19:14] incorporating an uh a pantry unit. We

[19:17] still have to figure out the appliance

[19:19] areas, but they're, you know, having a

[19:20] pantry unit that can accommodate maybe a

[19:21] little vacuum or a Dyson or a room or

[19:24] something. But I I understand what

[19:25] you're saying. Yeah.

[19:26] >> And then you've looked to the site plan

[19:29] » And then you've looked to the site plan

[19:29] for a minute.

[19:29] >> Yeah.

[19:30] » Yeah.

[19:30] >> So, if I read the site plan correctly,

[19:33] » So, if I read the site plan correctly,

[19:33] the private open space for the suit is

[19:36] mainly just an extension of the parking

[19:38] area. Mhm.

[19:41] >> And again, it goes back to my comment

[19:43] » And again, it goes back to my comment

[19:43] about because this is so tight, that

[19:47] private space for the suites, in my

[19:49] opinion, needs to be as livable as

[19:52] possible.

[19:54] Um,

[19:56] and I there's obviously different ways

[19:58] of doing that to separate it from the

[20:00] parking,

[20:02] landscaping, what whatever can be done

[20:05] to just sort of make that a little bit

[20:08] more enjoyable space.

[20:10] >> We we talked about having at the point

[20:11] » We we talked about having at the point

[20:11] of the front of the triangle here, we

[20:13] talked about having a fence line there,

[20:14] but my concern was accessibility. So

[20:17] when somebody's coming in uh not as

[20:20] able-bodied as the next person,

[20:22] wheelchair heavy not or walker, um it

[20:24] would get kind of congested in that

[20:26] area, like it does fit and work, but

[20:27] it's just I think it it would be

[20:32] um up to maybe the homeowners at that

[20:34] end, whoever is living or what they're

[20:36] doing with that space because they could

[20:37] be using as a studio as whatever they

[20:40] would choose to they want to rent it

[20:42] out. So, it does give a bunch of

[20:44] options, but that was my my concern is

[20:46] if having your car here, I mean, it

[20:48] works. You have your staircase, but just

[20:50] trying to move around there and then

[20:51] you'd have to open up a gate and

[20:53] maneuver around. I just don't see how

[20:54] that would function.

[20:55] >> Even don't want to start designing it.

[20:58] » Even don't want to start designing it.

[20:58] >> Not my business. But, even if it had

[21:00] » Not my business. But, even if it had

[21:00] different paving materials, just to

[21:01] dimote that that's

[21:03] >> okay to be a private space as opposed to

[21:06] » okay to be a private space as opposed to

[21:06] it's just I think it's blue in concrete

[21:08] right through. I mean some some and all

[21:10] I'm saying is something that makes that

[21:12] space more

[21:13] >> maybe carrying the bricks that are on

[21:15] » maybe carrying the bricks that are on

[21:15] the patio.

[21:16] >> That's another idea. Just something to

[21:17] » That's another idea. Just something to

[21:18] make that a little bit more enticing.

[21:20] >> Okay.

[21:20] » Okay.

[21:20] >> For anybody that's going to be there.

[21:22] » For anybody that's going to be there.

[21:22] >> Um I'll get you a second. I got a I got

[21:24] » Um I'll get you a second. I got a I got

[21:24] a few other ones. This one I might uh

[21:27] Alice might direct your way. So,

[21:31] I have a real big concern about access

[21:35] for first responders and

[21:39] all those guys is they're going to be

[21:41] coming up to the front of the building

[21:44] not knowing where to find those two

[21:46] units. So this is something that we work

[21:49] with when de when when designs come in

[21:51] like this through from the very start

[21:53] with our development review committee

[21:55] which is meeting with people from all

[21:56] departments about addressing how the

[21:59] addressing would go and where a sign

[22:01] would go on the property to show where

[22:02] the access is to the other units. So

[22:04] that yeah we work with the fire

[22:05] department on that. The same issue came

[22:07] up with the buildings. Do you remember

[22:08] at at fifth and ocean and fourth and

[22:11] ocean and right next door at 2436 ocean

[22:14] because two units face the street and

[22:15] there's one in the back. So, the same

[22:17] concern came up. How do we get first

[22:18] responders or even the pizza delivery

[22:21] person to find their right front door?

[22:22] So, yeah, definitely looking into that.

[22:26] >> Um, and then from walking around that

[22:30] » Um, and then from walking around that

[22:30] neighborhood, I know it's mentioned in

[22:32] the staff report, but I do have some

[22:35] concerns about the massing of this

[22:37] building comparison to the other

[22:39] buildings around it. It's a little one

[22:41] story. Well, there's three little one

[22:42] stories

[22:43] >> to the north of this. Other buildings on

[22:46] » to the north of this. Other buildings on

[22:46] that street are one and a half, two

[22:50] stories, but with uh

[22:52] >> uh the the house on

[22:53] » uh the the house on

[22:54] >> the house on the north side. Um uh

[22:56] » the house on the north side. Um uh

[22:56] Dorothy and Linda, I believe, who own

[22:59] the house.

[22:59] >> Yeah.

[23:00] » Yeah.

[23:00] >> I've been communicating with them and

[23:01] » I've been communicating with them and

[23:01] she has praised about what we're

[23:03] building because it's not something that

[23:06] is around the corner. So, she's actually

[23:09] really being our side neighbor, she is

[23:12] really appreciative of what we have

[23:15] built or are going to build.

[23:17] >> As well as the fella on the corner. Um,

[23:20] » As well as the fella on the corner. Um,

[23:20] >> he is you.

[23:21] » he is you.

[23:21] >> Yeah. Yeah. He's right on ocean there.

[23:23] » Yeah. Yeah. He's right on ocean there.

[23:23] So, he was wondering if maybe

[23:25] >> we could clean up some of the bush nuts

[23:27] » we could clean up some of the bush nuts

[23:28] dropped in his yard for the squirrels

[23:29] and stuff. So, so I told him we would

[23:30] help out as much as we can with the

[23:32] fence as well. My point is when you look

[23:33] at that streetscape, it's just

[23:35] >> it is quite a departure from that little

[23:38] » it is quite a departure from that little

[23:38] bungalow to the other side. And there's

[23:40] three like that down there. And then the

[23:41] other ones on the other side are more

[23:43] there's some of them are two stories,

[23:45] but with a different roof form that

[23:48] seems to be kind of repeated. So

[23:51] >> yeah, where the floors are built into

[23:53] » yeah, where the floors are built into

[23:53] the trusses. I mean we we I mean

[23:55] alternatively that we could I think

[23:57] we're in we were able Allison to go up

[23:59] another whole floor.

[24:00] >> Yeah, that's right. the provincial

[24:01] » Yeah, that's right. the provincial

[24:01] legislation for the small scale

[24:03] multi-unit does pretty much require

[24:05] municipalities to allow three stories.

[24:07] >> So, which which I thought I mean we had

[24:09] » So, which which I thought I mean we had

[24:09] the conversation. I just thought that

[24:10] would be a little too little too tall.

[24:13] Um, Linda and Dorothy also expressed

[24:16] they liked our window placements for

[24:18] privacy purposes on the side. So, Tara

[24:20] took that into consideration. Um, where

[24:22] we have our dining room, usually it's

[24:23] nice to have a nice big dining room

[24:25] window. This is a transom window that is

[24:28] six and a half ft off the ground that

[24:30] you can't peek in over and and take a

[24:32] look. So, there was thought put into it.

[24:34] Um the peaks of the roofs, I mean, align

[24:37] with the neighbors on the left, but um

[24:42] the neighbors on the right, but we've

[24:43] had uh appreciative consideration from

[24:46] them about the design, so I'm content

[24:49] with what's there. Um

[24:53] yeah.

[24:57] Yeah, the one on the on the left on that

[25:00] image, I'd say based on the streetscape

[25:03] is a bit of an anomaly. The other ones

[25:05] are

[25:07] certainly kind of a different

[25:10] housing styles, but okay.

[25:14] >> Um, David, you had something else you

[25:17] » Um, David, you had something else you

[25:17] want? Well, it was just in conjunction,

[25:18] Dennis, with what you were talking about

[25:20] the sideyard space

[25:24] units above and so through uh uh you

[25:28] Allison, I'm assuming for egress,

[25:32] emergency egress going through to the

[25:34] rear area out

[25:37] second means of egress emergency from

[25:41] front

[25:42] >> from the front unit.

[25:43] » from the front unit.

[25:43] >> Yeah. So the again that's a a pretty

[25:46] » Yeah. So the again that's a a pretty

[25:46] technical code question. I'm not a

[25:48] building inspector so I don't know all

[25:49] the code requirements but that would be

[25:51] looked at

[25:52] >> the case and it also lead you to an area

[25:55] » the case and it also lead you to an area

[25:55] that in conjunction with the only

[25:57] entrance and exit from up above is into

[26:00] the same area. So they need openness

[26:02] through the the garage parking areas

[26:06] unencumbered to be able to eress if in

[26:08] fact fire is towards front. Sorry,

[26:11] you're asking about windows in the the

[26:13] backyard building or the

[26:15] >> No, not windows at all. It was Dennis's

[26:17] » No, not windows at all. It was Dennis's

[26:17] comment about maybe putting some fencing

[26:19] and so forth. And I'm just wondering if

[26:24] >> that would un you know if it would limit

[26:27] » that would un you know if it would limit

[26:27] I suppose the exiting capabilities uh in

[26:30] an emergency situation plus the access

[26:32] to that area from emergency vehicles

[26:36] too much blocked off because there'll be

[26:38] probably sideyard fencing

[26:41] >> and um the only way of getting out if

[26:44] » and um the only way of getting out if

[26:44] the former building is on fire.

[26:49] Well, flipping that around too, the

[26:51] first responders have direct access from

[26:53] the lane if the car is at the back of

[26:57] >> That's right. So,

[26:59] » That's right. So,

[26:59] >> I think the fence open as possible.

[27:01] » I think the fence open as possible.

[27:01] >> I mean, there would be gates in the

[27:02] » I mean, there would be gates in the

[27:02] fence and I think the the first

[27:06] responders like with every every new

[27:07] building that gets built, uh, the fire

[27:10] department looks at the plans and

[27:11] develop a response plan and then that's

[27:13] saved on file when they and they review

[27:15] it as they're going to to the call if

[27:17] there is one. Um, and codewise that's

[27:20] part of the building officials review is

[27:22] they look at the distance between the

[27:24] buildings and you can see a line here as

[27:27] as was mentioned by by Brennan a few

[27:29] minutes ago. Um, this line down here

[27:32] shows kind of the code property line.

[27:36] It's not a property line, but that's the

[27:37] line that we're looking at for

[27:39] determining how many openings can we

[27:40] have between the buildings and how big

[27:42] they can be. the closer together they

[27:44] are, the smaller those openings can be

[27:46] to prevent fire spread between the two.

[27:49] But I think I mean first responders will

[27:50] work around fences and gates. And yeah,

[27:52] we don't we don't want to unnecessarily

[27:54] block things off, but it it wouldn't be

[27:56] an unsettling situation. Have a fence in

[27:59] the backyard separating a back lane

[28:01] access from the rear garden area. Yeah,

[28:04] my comment is more open is better as

[28:07] opposed to [clears throat] block.

[28:08] >> Yeah. The balance between not having

[28:11] » Yeah. The balance between not having

[28:11] that privacy space for the sweets.

[28:14] >> No, I understand.

[28:15] » No, I understand.

[28:15] >> The bunker of the car,

[28:16] » The bunker of the car,

[28:16] >> right? Is there any uh objection for a

[28:21] » right? Is there any uh objection for a

[28:21] future homeowner to do something like

[28:22] that on their own if they choose like or

[28:25] or would they be restricted to going

[28:27] back through like the town of Sydney to

[28:29] ask permission or if they would like to

[28:31] do that for their own privacy? Because I

[28:34] I could also see that if we have a fence

[28:35] that's going to the main area and they

[28:38] have if they're permitted to have a

[28:40] small business up there or a little

[28:42] hobby shop, you go through the gate as

[28:44] opposed to mistakenly go through another

[28:45] gate staircase there. So, I mean, the

[28:47] options there. I I would hate to put I'm

[28:50] not in favor of putting something there

[28:52] when something could be put there if

[28:54] necessary after. My main concern was

[28:56] more accessibility to the staircase and

[28:58] and the cars and not um it's it's it's

[29:02] tight. Everything works. I just would

[29:03] like to keep it as open as as possible.

[29:06] But I feel like there's a ton of options

[29:09] to create your own private space if

[29:11] needed down the road. And and someone

[29:13] might have a 20 foot long Cadillac,

[29:16] someone might have a 7 foot smart car,

[29:19] too, which would kind of determine how

[29:20] much space they're they're going to need

[29:22] as well.

[29:23] >> And it will be up to the property owners

[29:25] » And it will be up to the property owners

[29:25] to determine who gets which parking

[29:27] space, if they're going to rent that

[29:28] unit out, how it will all happen. What

[29:31] we've seen over the years in this small

[29:33] lot neighborhood here is that the

[29:35] landscaping does evolve over time. Like

[29:37] yes, there's a development permit for

[29:39] the general form and character and the

[29:41] general landscaping, but when there's no

[29:42] strata, when it's a single property

[29:44] owner involved, even in this case, when

[29:46] there it sounds like there will be a

[29:47] strata, um, properties change and evolve

[29:50] over time. And we don't require a permit

[29:52] for somebody to put a fence up in a

[29:54] property like this. We would require a

[29:56] permit for a fence if they're an

[29:57] environmentally sensitive area, but

[29:59] they're not here. So, I mean, we we'd

[30:01] like people to come in and talk to us

[30:03] about the changes they're thinking for

[30:04] their property when they're in a form

[30:06] and character development permit area

[30:07] like this one, but they don't need a

[30:09] permit from us to come in and change

[30:11] their patio or put in fencing and things

[30:13] like that,

[30:13] >> right? Which is why I guess I'm kind of

[30:15] » right? Which is why I guess I'm kind of

[30:15] belaboring this point of at making sure

[30:17] at least the the basic elements of that

[30:21] privacy space are sort of incorporated

[30:24] into the development permit, whether

[30:25] it's different paving materials

[30:27] >> or um planters or whatever it is. Just

[30:31] » or um planters or whatever it is. Just

[30:32] something to distinguish that area a

[30:34] little bit from the parking that's right

[30:37] up against it.

[30:41] Okay, I think I belvered that one

[30:43] enough.

[30:45] >> Just just one bill quick comment. Um uh

[30:48] » Just just one bill quick comment. Um uh

[30:48] just in regards to your concern about

[30:50] delivery access to the rear units. Um I

[30:52] I've done a lot of food delivery myself

[30:54] and uh my experience with those kind of

[30:56] buildings where there's a unit in the

[30:57] back side. Usually the customer will

[31:00] leave a note saying like go through the

[31:02] gate around the left side of the

[31:03] building, that kind of thing. Um, but

[31:06] newer buildings often will have like the

[31:08] unit numbers on the door itself and then

[31:10] they'll have another number at the front

[31:11] with like an arrow saying go around the

[31:13] corner.

[31:15] I'm not too concerned about it person

[31:17] but um it sounds like it'll be solved.

[31:19] >> I think Allison you were saying that

[31:21] » I think Allison you were saying that

[31:21] when you get to the building permit

[31:22] stage the

[31:25] addressing and the direction to the

[31:27] addresses will be sorted out then. Is

[31:29] that correct?

[31:30] >> That's right.

[31:31] » That's right.

[31:31] >> Yeah. So it'll be an address post

[31:33] » Yeah. So it'll be an address post

[31:33] >> staff we're already thinking about. I

[31:34] » staff we're already thinking about. I

[31:34] don't know what the details are for this

[31:35] one, but there would be some indication

[31:36] of how to get to those other units from

[31:39] the street.

[31:42] » Is there another um development on on

[31:46] sixth where it's already been cleared?

[31:50] >> There is six and more north, but it's

[31:54] » There is six and more north, but it's

[31:54] the house has been taken down staked

[31:55] out. Yeah,

[31:56] >> it's on the the east side of six. Yeah,

[31:58] » it's on the the east side of six. Yeah,

[31:58] north of Orchard. I know it's getting I

[32:00] just had

[32:01] >> relevant to this, but

[32:03] » relevant to this, but

[32:03] >> yeah,

[32:04] » yeah,

[32:04] >> I think it's I think it's kind of the

[32:05] » I think it's I think it's kind of the

[32:05] same same thing. Only single car

[32:08] garages. There's no um

[32:09] >> I don't think it's four units. I think

[32:11] » I don't think it's four units. I think

[32:11] it's two units.

[32:12] >> Yeah, sorry.

[32:13] » Yeah, sorry.

[32:13] >> That doesn't need a development permit

[32:14] » That doesn't need a development permit

[32:14] like this one.

[32:15] >> Well, thanks. I just get a sense of

[32:16] » Well, thanks. I just get a sense of

[32:16] what's going on.

[32:17] >> And I only needed the development permit

[32:18] » And I only needed the development permit

[32:18] because of those living outs above the

[32:20] garage.

[32:20] >> That's right. If you if this one had

[32:22] » That's right. If you if this one had

[32:22] been just two units, it would not need a

[32:23] development permit at all. Just be a

[32:25] building permit. If you hit three, then

[32:26] you need a uh then you need a

[32:29] development project.

[32:30] >> I do have one a comment. Do you think

[32:32] » I do have one a comment. Do you think

[32:32] that down the road, I don't know if this

[32:33] is the appropriate time to talk about

[32:34] this, but do you think down the road,

[32:36] given what this is, is this is different

[32:38] than your typical forplex that's going

[32:40] on right now. Um, do you think there

[32:43] will be a a change in the bylaw to

[32:47] conform to to a design like this where

[32:52] it would be labeled as like a secondary

[32:54] suite as opposed to a four like four

[32:58] units? Oh, it'll be it would be four

[33:00] units because the building code can't

[33:03] consider those units above the garages

[33:05] as secondary suites because the like

[33:07] secondary suite by the building code

[33:10] means you're building to a different

[33:11] standard of the code as opposed to a

[33:14] full-on separate dwelling unit. And this

[33:15] is like these are in a separate

[33:16] building. They can't be built to those

[33:18] lower standards of the building.

[33:20] >> Right. Okay.

[33:21] » Right. Okay.

[33:21] >> Um yeah,

[33:23] » Um yeah,

[33:24] >> two building permits, two buildings,

[33:26] » two building permits, two buildings,

[33:26] >> two two building permits, two

[33:27] » two two building permits, two

[33:27] structures.

[33:30] I can't see us changing the zoning bylaw

[33:32] to require certain layouts for the

[33:33] units. Like right now, Sydney zoning

[33:36] bylaw allows up to four units per

[33:38] property. It doesn't say they must be

[33:39] all in one building or they must be in

[33:41] two separate buildings. It's up to the

[33:43] owner's imagination for how to lay out

[33:44] these buildings in a way that conforms

[33:46] with bylaws and with the building code.

[33:48] Other municipalities have taken that

[33:50] small scale multi-unit legislation

[33:52] direction and developed bylaws that are

[33:55] more stringent in terms of how you can

[33:57] lay out those units. But Sydney is kind

[33:59] of wide open.

[34:00] >> And just to follow up on that, my

[34:01] » And just to follow up on that, my

[34:01] understanding from the staff report is

[34:03] that you will be bringing back some

[34:06] design guidelines and an amendment to

[34:08] the OCP.

[34:09] Is that correct?

[34:10] >> That right now. Yeah. Right now, the the

[34:12] » That right now. Yeah. Right now, the the

[34:12] design guidelines for this area, the

[34:14] intensive residential de DP area, they

[34:18] don't specifically speak to the the

[34:20] smooth type of development. Um, they

[34:22] talk about small lot and secondary

[34:24] suites within the small lot, but they

[34:25] don't talk about up to four units per

[34:29] Yeah, that would be a future amendment

[34:30] to the OCP.

[34:33] >> Okay. Anybody else have any other

[34:35] » Okay. Anybody else have any other

[34:35] comments, questions?

[34:38] Okay, I'm going to look for a motion

[34:41] regarding the staff recommendation

[34:44] that Eric secondary

[34:47] David

[35:08] 00859

[35:10] and the performing character of a 4-unit

[35:12] residential development for the property

[35:14] at 96166 Street be approved subject to

[35:18] the condition that the property owner

[35:19] shall prior to the issuance of the

[35:21] building permit a pay to the town of

[35:24] deposit the amount of 115% of the

[35:27] estimated cost to complete the hard and

[35:29] soft landscaping for the development.

[35:34] » Okay, so you moved and who seconded.

[35:36] David.

[35:38] So discussion

[35:43] I've got few things. Um I based on my

[35:48] comments I'd like to make some

[35:50] amendments to the recommendation. We can

[35:53] sever these and go one at a time

[35:56] if that's uh works better. The first one

[36:00] would be prior to the amend the

[36:03] recommendation to say prior to the

[36:04] issuance of a building permit address

[36:06] the following design guidelines

[36:09] 25.3.24

[36:11] too far regarding adjacent buildings.

[36:15] And that really goes back to my comment.

[36:18] I I hear what you're saying about your

[36:19] neighbor's fine with them, but I I think

[36:22] this could use some attention in terms

[36:24] of the building form perhaps responding

[36:28] to the uh streetscape a bit better than

[36:32] it does. So that's my motivation for

[36:35] that.

[36:37] So is there a secondary for that?

[36:44] motion fails.

[36:47] Uh the next one is uh regarding private

[36:51] outdoor space. I know we had a lot of

[36:52] discussion but I still think it needs

[36:55] something else in the recommendation

[36:58] which is that prior to the issuance of a

[37:00] building permit address design

[37:02] guidelines 25.4.4

[37:04] regarding private workspace. That really

[37:07] defers to the comments I made about

[37:10] landscaping and enhancing the liability.

[37:15] Second second that

[37:17] >> the number you referenced was 25.4.4

[37:23] » private outdoor space.

[37:25] >> Right.

[37:26] » Right.

[37:26] >> Robert seconded

[37:28] » Robert seconded

[37:28] rolls in any uh discussion.

[37:34] I guess just um uh is so the wording is

[37:38] to make it more private or sorry do you

[37:41] mind repeating it again? So my

[37:44] motivation here is to make that space um

[37:48] to use it better

[37:51] word I can think it more livable

[37:52] >> right

[37:53] » right

[37:53] >> leave it to the staff how that gets

[37:56] » leave it to the staff how that gets

[37:56] sorted out whether it's landscaping

[37:58] paving materials fence whatever that

[38:01] ends up being

[38:02] >> but to simply have it put it bluntly as

[38:05] » but to simply have it put it bluntly as

[38:05] an extension of the parking space and my

[38:07] view is some tension there seems to be

[38:11] some receptivity to that in order

[38:13] discussion already.

[38:14] >> Yeah.

[38:15] » Yeah.

[38:15] >> The

[38:17] » The

[38:17] question or simple point of order. Um

[38:22] it when when this uh process that we're

[38:28] in today finishes, uh we're going to be

[38:31] putting up a record decision and then

[38:38] this is uh this is not going to be going

[38:41] to be back to council. So then that

[38:45] record of decision

[38:48] that is being covered under that as

[38:51] opposed to changing the motion.

[38:54] >> Well the record of decision correct me

[38:56] » Well the record of decision correct me

[38:56] Allison is simply capturing the

[38:58] discussion about commission. I'm saying

[39:01] I would like to see it

[39:02] >> strengthen.

[39:06] » That's right.

[39:07] >> That's right. I agree with that. Um we

[39:09] » That's right. I agree with that. Um we

[39:09] al have also seen APC use the record of

[39:12] decision um for a situation where say

[39:14] one member has a strong view about

[39:15] something that nobody else has that same

[39:17] strong view. The record of decision

[39:19] could say one member felt the

[39:21] development should be changed by XY Z.

[39:23] >> So that that that lone thought is still

[39:26] » So that that that lone thought is still

[39:26] taken to council but it's not part of

[39:29] >> so that's an option too to think about

[39:32] » so that's an option too to think about

[39:32] >> case

[39:34] » case

[39:34] passes it becomes part of your

[39:35] information. It fails.

[39:41] » So, we had a mover and a seconder on

[39:43] that one. Discussion. All those in

[39:45] favor?

[39:47] >> Opposed?

[39:50] Thank you. Um, last one uh is 25.4.25

[39:58] which is regarding the sweet entry which

[40:00] we've discussed.

[40:02] Um,

[40:06] and it could just be extending the

[40:07] overhang for the for the entrance to the

[40:10] suite, but it need it needs

[40:13] some sort of attention

[40:16] for a couple reasons. And it's mentioned

[40:17] in the design guidelines. It's not only

[40:19] protection for the occupants of that

[40:21] building. It's also to identify for, for

[40:24] example, first responders that that's

[40:26] the entry to the unit. So, it does need

[40:29] something

[40:31] more than shown on the drawings.

[40:34] So, I'm looking for a secondary.

[40:38] >> So, you're looking for a

[40:39] » So, you're looking for a

[40:40] >> to extend the overhangs uh over the

[40:43] » to extend the overhangs uh over the

[40:43] stairs

[40:45] >> leading up to the

[40:47] » leading up to the

[40:47] units above the garages.

[40:51] >> I see.

[40:53] » I see.

[40:53] to it actually come out as far as the

[40:56] really at least

[40:57] >> it could be can levered. It could be

[41:00] » it could be can levered. It could be

[41:00] leave it up to staff.

[41:03] >> Yeah, David, you brought that up.

[41:05] » Yeah, David, you brought that up.

[41:05] >> Yeah. And and correct me if I'm wrong,

[41:08] » Yeah. And and correct me if I'm wrong,

[41:08] Alison. Isn't that referred to in your

[41:10] recommendation though? So, in the staff

[41:13] report, page five, the top of the report

[41:16] does say um weather protection could be

[41:18] improved or the entrances of the two

[41:20] units at the rear. That's me

[41:22] paraphrasing the sentence. Um but the

[41:24] staff recommendation does not have

[41:26] wording to that effect in it. So, if you

[41:28] wanted to add that, I'd suggest you use

[41:29] the same wording that you just did for

[41:31] the other two motions, saying address

[41:33] this guideline 25.36

[41:38] and just refer to that so it's clear to

[41:40] council what what we're talking about

[41:41] there. And so, it's worded in the same

[41:43] way.

[41:44] >> He's thinking that's 2536.

[41:47] » He's thinking that's 2536.

[41:48] >> Yeah. Provide weather protection such as

[41:49] » Yeah. Provide weather protection such as

[41:49] awnings and canopies at primary building

[41:51] entries.

[41:53] That one if you if you want to.

[41:54] >> Yeah. No, that makes sense. Thank you.

[42:01] Okay. And

[42:03] >> did you want to vote on that or did you

[42:04] » did you want to vote on that or did you

[42:04] make a motion?

[42:06] >> I made the motion. I second it.

[42:08] » I made the motion. I second it.

[42:08] >> Did it get voted on?

[42:11] » Did it get voted on?

[42:11] >> All in favor?

[42:14] » All in favor?

[42:14] Great. Thank you. And then the last one,

[42:16] and Allison, and correct me if I'm

[42:18] wrong, I don't need to I don't think I

[42:20] need to incorporate this into the

[42:21] recommendation, but the the entry and

[42:24] the signage from the street to those

[42:26] carriage suites will be look after a

[42:29] building permit.

[42:29] >> That would be a great one for the record

[42:31] » That would be a great one for the record

[42:31] of decision if you wanted to mention

[42:33] that for that.

[42:33] >> Good point. Okay. So then back to the

[42:38] » Good point. Okay. So then back to the

[42:38] main motion as amended.

[42:43] Want to try that one?

[42:48] Um,

[42:52] » did you want Ruth to read it out or

[42:55] >> Well, we just need to vote on the main

[42:56] » Well, we just need to vote on the main

[42:56] motion of amended.

[42:59] [clears throat]

[43:01] » Did Did you want us to read it out or

[43:03] just you're going to vote on the main

[43:04] motion with those two additions?

[43:06] >> If that's fine, let's just do it that

[43:07] » If that's fine, let's just do it that

[43:07] way. Keep it simple. So, all those in

[43:09] favor of the main motion as amended

[43:13] carried. Thank you.

[43:16] All right. Um,

[43:19] moving on items disposition by council.

[43:22] Council

[43:26] » Third Street. What happened?

[43:28] >> It's still there.

[43:31] » It's still there.

[43:31] >> Actually looking for some clarification

[43:33] » Actually looking for some clarification

[43:33] because I watched that council

[43:35] discussion. I'm not entirely clear what

[43:37] council did.

[43:39] They moved the reszoning but not the

[43:41] development permit or did I not

[43:44] understand they of the high street? Um

[43:48] they vote um acceptance of demolition

[43:51] and they need to come back with on land

[43:55] I believe because it there was an

[43:57] acceptance of the setbacks for the

[44:00] cherry trees and um acceptance of the

[44:04] parking and yeah go ahead. You probably

[44:08] have a frame.

[44:09] >> Okay. I don't I was just going to pull

[44:11] » Okay. I don't I was just going to pull

[44:11] it up, but my recollection is council

[44:13] made a resolution to direct staff to

[44:15] prepare a bylaw to reszone the property.

[44:17] So, we're working on drafting that

[44:18] bylaw. And then they made a motion to

[44:22] bring forward the development variance

[44:23] permit for approval if the zoning by is

[44:25] adopted. And then they made a motion to

[44:28] bring forward the development permit for

[44:30] approval if the variance is approved.

[44:32] So, all of those will come back to

[44:33] council later. We'll start bringing back

[44:35] the bylaw.

[44:37] her first.

[44:39] >> I got the impression from the mayor's

[44:40] » I got the impression from the mayor's

[44:40] comments that he was comfortable with

[44:43] advancing the zoning the resoning bylaw

[44:47] but less comfortable with the

[44:48] development.

[44:49] >> So all three of them typically move

[44:51] » So all three of them typically move

[44:51] forward in this way that the res council

[44:54] made the resolutions that the

[44:56] development permit would be considered

[44:58] for approval if the zoning is approved.

[45:00] So council hasn't approved the

[45:01] development permit yet. are just saying

[45:03] we're going to put that we're going to

[45:04] consider that consider approving it um

[45:07] if we pass the zoning bylaw.

[45:10] >> So theoretically they could adopt the

[45:11] » So theoretically they could adopt the

[45:12] reszoning bylaw and not the development.

[45:14] >> Yeah, correct.

[45:15] » Yeah, correct.

[45:15] >> They could it's still council hasn't

[45:16] » They could it's still council hasn't

[45:16] made a final decision on that. Yeah.

[45:19] >> Yeah.

[45:24] » There was something in the in the

[45:26] resolution about shifting the driveway

[45:29] ramp to the underground on Third Street.

[45:31] shifting that slightly north. Yes.

[45:34] >> By half a meter to leave a little more

[45:35] » By half a meter to leave a little more

[45:35] unexavated space adjacent to those

[45:37] cherry trees. Correct.

[45:38] >> I think that was part of it.

[45:41] » I think that was part of it.

[45:41] >> Yeah.

[45:41] » Yeah.

[45:41] >> But they um so I don't want to de labor

[45:44] » But they um so I don't want to de labor

[45:44] this, but they have a based on the

[45:47] additional requirements the commission

[45:49] put in there. They got a lot of work to

[45:51] do.

[45:53] Yeah.

[45:54] They've got to address the

[45:58] forestry elevation

[46:00] between the ramp. Jamie's concerns

[46:03] bicycle.

[46:05] >> I had a comment if you don't mind.

[46:06] » I had a comment if you don't mind.

[46:06] >> There's a laundry list for them to do.

[46:08] » There's a laundry list for them to do.

[46:08] >> Yeah.

[46:09] » Yeah.

[46:09] >> That all comes after the result. So here

[46:14] » That all comes after the result. So here

[46:14] >> they think we'll end up back at

[46:17] » they think we'll end up back at

[46:17] >> um I would say likely

[46:21] » um I would say likely

[46:21] >> not not promising just

[46:22] » not not promising just

[46:22] >> No, no, it's fine. That was one one of

[46:25] » No, no, it's fine. That was one one of

[46:25] two options.

[46:26] >> Thank you.

[46:26] » Thank you.

[46:26] >> Thank you.

[46:27] » Thank you.

[46:27] >> Thank you.

[46:28] » Thank you.

[46:28] >> Thanks a lot.

[46:29] » Thanks a lot.

[46:29] >> I just wanted to mention that

[46:32] » I just wanted to mention that

[46:32] High Street actually had a um a little

[46:34] popup last week outside. Did you go to

[46:36] that?

[46:36] >> No, I heard about it.

[46:37] » No, I heard about it.

[46:37] >> Okay. because they had updated um

[46:39] » Okay. because they had updated um

[46:39] renderings and some of our feedback was

[46:41] already incorporated in that.

[46:46] » Sorry,

[46:46] >> I just realized the committee missed

[46:47] » I just realized the committee missed

[46:47] doing the record of decision after you

[46:49] voted which we normally do before we

[46:51] talk

[46:52] >> by council just while it's still fresh

[46:54] » by council just while it's still fresh

[46:54] in everybody's heads.

[47:01] » Yeah.

[47:03] Address the addressing

[47:07] Are we going to do this?

[47:09] >> Yeah.

[47:10] » Yeah.

[47:10] >> Live, Ruth.

[47:20] » Okay.

[47:26] So, um, yes, based on my comment and

[47:30] your suggestion, Alison, which was a

[47:32] good one, something to the effect of

[47:34] incorporate addressing

[47:37] for the carriage suites to assist first

[47:39] responders,

[47:50] deliveries.

[47:51] >> Yeah. And deliveries. Good point.

[48:00] Um if I can uh carry on folks are okay.

[48:04] I I would also just like to echo some of

[48:06] the comments I made during our

[48:07] discussion. The building form should be

[48:10] more sympathetic to

[48:15] » the building form should be more

[48:16] sympathetic to the neighborhood.

[48:24] Yeah, that's quite sympathetic to the

[48:26] >> we could say one member thought

[48:32] » to say yeah council that's not saying

[48:35] anything

[48:38] need to make more

[48:40] give council the direction okay I'll try

[48:44] not do that but okay [laughter]

[48:47] just

[48:49] Dennis maybe before you

[48:52] do that I thought

[48:55] this is the whole areas like this are

[48:57] under evolution and we can see examples

[49:00] of what's happening developments

[49:03] developments are going towards this kind

[49:05] of building which has already started in

[49:08] this area other areas similarly are

[49:11] further ahead doing that so I'm not sure

[49:14] in my own mind that what we're seeing

[49:16] here irrespective nuances of it doesn't

[49:20] isn't a precursor to what it's going to

[49:22] be. So as far as the streetscape now the

[49:25] smaller buildings are being replaced or

[49:27] being overtaken purchased and not

[49:31] replicated single family office

[49:34] buildings. So

[49:36] >> I I appreciate that. But if you walk the

[49:39] » I I appreciate that. But if you walk the

[49:39] street

[49:40] >> even the newer buildings they have a

[49:43] » even the newer buildings they have a

[49:43] pitch roof form and not the hip roof

[49:46] that they're proposing. this roof form

[49:48] on this building is

[49:51] um would be unusual on that street. So,

[49:56] it's really the roof form I'm after.

[49:59] >> We want to mention that

[50:00] » We want to mention that

[50:00] >> if you want if you want more guidance

[50:02] » if you want if you want more guidance

[50:02] for council

[50:03] >> more specific if you want your point to

[50:06] » more specific if you want your point to

[50:06] be heard here, it doesn't hurt to add

[50:08] that point. I I mean just from an

[50:11] objective perspective, there's many

[50:13] different styles of buildings in this

[50:15] neighborhood from like a very short

[50:16] onetory to a tall threetory.

[50:19] >> So,

[50:20] » So,

[50:20] >> but this is what the record of decision

[50:22] » but this is what the record of decision

[50:22] is for. If there's one one opinion that

[50:24] the rest of the committee didn't see

[50:25] merit in, you can put it in here.

[50:27] >> They all have the same roof form. One

[50:29] » They all have the same roof form. One

[50:29] story, two story, or one and a half

[50:31] story.

[50:35] » Not this hip roof, which is really the

[50:38] going to make it look

[50:40] Well, I could say one member fell victim

[50:44] for be more sympathetic.

[50:47] Would that help counsel more?

[50:50] >> Yeah.

[50:54] And then if I can get one last one in

[50:57] and then I'll

[50:59] see others that the uh and I can I'm up

[51:03] for words. So I found this one. The

[51:04] living environment needs to be enhanced

[51:06] to compensate strain space. It goes back

[51:09] to my comment about in the private open

[51:11] space in the carriage suites. Yeah. The

[51:14] living environment needs to be the

[51:16] living environment of the carriage

[51:17] suites needs to be enhanced.

[51:21] >> Did you want to put in there like maybe

[51:24] » Did you want to put in there like maybe

[51:24] about regarding storage?

[51:26] >> Yeah, storage landscaping or storage and

[51:31] » Yeah, storage landscaping or storage and

[51:31] privacy space.

[51:35] Okay, that's mine.

[51:39] » The committee

[51:40] >> a one member as well.

[51:46] » That's up to the committee.

[51:48] >> Look, these are my three. Are they one

[51:51] » Look, these are my three. Are they one

[51:51] member felt that things or I don't I

[51:55] um

[51:58] I think the uh I think the privacy space

[52:02] part is where I'm having difficulty with

[52:03] because the design of this one and I

[52:05] don't know what how that interpret but I

[52:07] do think there was a clear direction

[52:09] around storage this suite has not so I

[52:13] think that's a legitimate

[52:16] um observation I would support privacy

[52:20] face. I think it's it's conceited in

[52:23] this type of design. I I know you want I

[52:27] like to have it improved. I show how to

[52:29] I don't know what that would look like.

[52:31] >> I do. [laughter]

[52:34] » I do. [laughter]

[52:34] >> Okay.

[52:38] » It sounds like they can do some privacy

[52:39] space modifications after

[52:42] building.

[52:44] I'm not sure.

[52:46] My my point, Robert, is that I would

[52:49] like to see the commission

[52:51] >> put that or in the water sooner. So, at

[52:53] » put that or in the water sooner. So, at

[52:53] least

[52:54] >> whether it's just alternative

[52:56] » whether it's just alternative

[52:56] >> Oh, no. I think your recommendation's

[52:58] » Oh, no. I think your recommendation's

[52:58] well intentional.

[52:59] >> Hardcaping something and how they fiddle

[53:02] » Hardcaping something and how they fiddle

[53:02] with it afterwards. Is there a business?

[53:04] >> Yeah, I'm fine with intent.

[53:08] » Yeah, I'm fine with intent.

[53:08] >> Yes. One question is the mention of

[53:10] » Yes. One question is the mention of

[53:10] privacy space. Is that not similar to

[53:12] what we moved in the motion for the

[53:14] recommendation? Yeah, this is just

[53:18] >> sort of some nar.

[53:23] » Does the committee want to make any

[53:24] general comments about the development

[53:26] as a whole? Usually, it starts with kind

[53:28] of a more general comment than a

[53:30] specific, but again, that's up to APC

[53:32] members what you'd like to say.

[53:34] >> I I was going to say that uh overall it

[53:38] » I I was going to say that uh overall it

[53:38] was seems to be a good fit for the

[53:41] neighborhood.

[53:43] the applicant has done

[53:49] good job

[53:52] coming up with something for that.

[53:59] » I agree with that

[54:03] standpoint as a pencil, right?

[54:13] of

[54:15] responding to the site constraints.

[54:33] So no issues with the size of those

[54:35] cures. Yes, those are exceptionally

[54:37] small.

[54:41] Well,

[54:44] >> it's a motel room.

[54:45] » it's a motel room.

[54:45] >> When when I when I was uh 25, I lived in

[54:49] » When when I when I was uh 25, I lived in

[54:49] small space [laughter]

[54:52] >> that would uh you know, I wouldn't

[54:53] » that would uh you know, I wouldn't

[54:53] necessarily say that I'd want to live in

[54:55] something like that now with my two

[54:57] kids, but uh uh when I was 25, I think

[55:00] something like that would be perfectly

[55:02] acceptable

[55:03] >> for a single person. I think uh they

[55:05] » for a single person. I think uh they

[55:05] will be filled.

[55:07] Yeah.

[55:10] One other thing is do we want to add a

[55:12] little note about my comment about

[55:14] adding a bit of color to the six street?

[55:18] I don't know how we word that exactly,

[55:19] but uh

[55:23] I specifically was referencing the

[55:24] doors, but um but I don't know the best

[55:27] way to word it.

[55:28] >> Color color details be incorporated into

[55:30] » Color color details be incorporated into

[55:30] the front

[55:33] >> the front doors if that was your point.

[55:35] » the front doors if that was your point.

[55:35] >> Yeah. Could be window trim. It could be

[55:37] » Yeah. Could be window trim. It could be

[55:37] >> right.

[55:39] » right.

[55:39] >> You just want to do it outdoors.

[55:40] » You just want to do it outdoors.

[55:40] >> Just identity of the entrance.

[55:43] » Just identity of the entrance.

[55:43] >> Yeah, maybe entrance.

[55:45] » Yeah, maybe entrance.

[55:45] >> Mostly I was just I had a little look

[55:47] » Mostly I was just I had a little look

[55:47] down that block and it seemed like there

[55:48] was about half of the houses down there

[55:49] had some kind of color on the doors and

[55:51] might fit a bit better.

[55:52] >> Entrances instead of elevation.

[55:54] » Entrances instead of elevation.

[55:54] >> Does that do it, Jamie?

[55:55] » Does that do it, Jamie?

[55:55] >> Yeah, I think that's probably

[56:11] A couple of us talked about the heaping

[56:13] positioning. I don't know if that's

[56:14] something we want to mention. That might

[56:16] be a little out of scope, I guess. But

[56:18] >> sounds like the applicant address those

[56:20] » sounds like the applicant address those

[56:20] questions,

[56:20] >> I guess. So, yeah. Yeah,

[56:26] » I just read that and I'm gonna take some

[56:28] guidance from but it would help the

[56:31] commission if in the future we're

[56:33] dealing more smooth

[56:36] that we have some design guidelines that

[56:38] we can measure

[56:40] it's a little uncomfortable having sort

[56:42] of

[56:45] we use kind of a way our way through

[56:48] without really having to really measure

[56:51] Thanks.

[56:51] >> Well, I think the design guidelines that

[56:53] » Well, I think the design guidelines that

[56:53] we have in the OCP for the the small lot

[56:56] residential, I mean, a lot of those are

[56:58] just kind of basic good design

[57:00] principles for dwelling units that are

[57:02] close together on small properties,

[57:04] which is not going to change when

[57:05] there's four dwelling units or two

[57:07] dwelling units. Um, we can it is on our

[57:09] list to do. So, we are working on it.

[57:11] And the thing with these is not all of

[57:13] the small scale multi-unit projects will

[57:15] be coming through the development permit

[57:17] process. They only do when the

[57:19] properties are already in a form and

[57:20] character DP area. Like we're seeing

[57:23] some coming in in other neighborhoods

[57:25] that are not in a DP area and those just

[57:27] go through the building permit process

[57:28] and we have no control over the look of

[57:30] them. So they don't come to APC. Um but

[57:33] no, it is on our list. I'll take note of

[57:34] that for sure. And I'll mention that too

[57:37] to to Selena and to Romana to Cory the

[57:40] planners and as we're looking at these

[57:42] applications to think about that

[57:44] >> and that would be appreciated. That is a

[57:46] » and that would be appreciated. That is a

[57:46] good interesting comment you just made

[57:48] that there's some with more challenging

[57:52] form and function design don't come to

[57:54] APC.

[57:55] >> Ones that are making an effort do come

[57:57] » Ones that are making an effort do come

[57:57] here. We do they get tougher scrutiny

[57:59] here than they would

[58:00] >> definitely. Yeah. Because the the ones

[58:02] » definitely. Yeah. Because the the ones

[58:02] that that don't go through the

[58:03] development permit process. It's just a

[58:05] building permit

[58:06] >> and we we make them conform to the

[58:08] » and we we make them conform to the

[58:08] building code but there's no Yeah.

[58:10] There's no design control. So

[58:12] >> I like that one.

[58:19] » Yeah.

[58:19] >> Yeah. By bank and rest haven. Oh

[58:23] » Yeah. By bank and rest haven. Oh

[58:23] >> yeah, that one.

[58:25] » yeah, that one.

[58:25] >> Yeah, there's a few different ones that

[58:27] » Yeah, there's a few different ones that

[58:27] don't. Yeah, that's right.

[58:30] >> That one, too. That's in an

[58:31] » That one, too. That's in an

[58:31] environmentally sensitive DP area, but

[58:33] not a former character DP area. And the

[58:36] provincial legislation is pretty clear.

[58:38] They don't want municipalities creating

[58:40] DP DP areas for smooth development. They

[58:43] they're trying to minimize the steps. So

[58:45] I don't think we'd have any support in

[58:47] doing

[58:47] >> anything else director of decision

[58:49] » anything else director of decision

[58:49] before we

[58:56] » all right. We've done items just by

[58:59] council. So did you want to go back?

[59:02] >> Are you comfortable?

[59:03] » Are you comfortable?

[59:03] >> Is there any more questions about

[59:05] » Is there any more questions about

[59:05] >> ice?

[59:08] » ice?

[59:08] third [clears throat] street development

[59:09] and read third

[59:11] high street development.

[59:14] So as Alison's pointed out the driveway

[59:16] they've asked the driveway to be farther

[59:18] north to give more protection of the

[59:20] sherry trace of the adjacent property um

[59:24] and giant and they're addressing the

[59:26] design facade design on fourth street.

[59:29] Um I think at this point the middle

[59:33] cypress tree is on the chopping block.

[59:36] That'll be the ent way working around

[59:39] that. Um

[59:43] I think that's

[59:45] the meeting but still has to come back

[59:47] to council for the zoning and then those

[59:50] things we'll look at those things again

[59:52] to the development. They can't take the

[59:56] cyber street down until they get the

[59:58] zoning direct.

[59:59] >> They can't remove any trees till they

[1:00:01] » They can't remove any trees till they

[1:00:01] get a building permit.

[1:00:01] >> That was in what we saw in our report.

[1:00:03] » That was in what we saw in our report.

[1:00:03] >> Yeah. Even if council approves the DP as

[1:00:05] » Yeah. Even if council approves the DP as

[1:00:05] is and the variances as is, then um

[1:00:08] yeah, no trees can be removed. We don't

[1:00:10] issue the tree removal permit until the

[1:00:12] building permit is ready to go

[1:00:15] recognition report. I thought that was a

[1:00:16] good idea.

[1:00:16] >> The only times you would see protected

[1:00:18] » The only times you would see protected

[1:00:18] trees coming out earlier than that is if

[1:00:20] they're really close to a building being

[1:00:22] demolished and the tree will be damaged

[1:00:23] when it's being demolished. So in those

[1:00:25] cases we can we let them come out.

[1:00:27] >> Just a side comment on that looking at

[1:00:30] » Just a side comment on that looking at

[1:00:30] the three trees together and you take

[1:00:31] the center one out and bearing in mind

[1:00:34] that it's a access point for emergency

[1:00:37] vehicle. I'd suggest that by the time

[1:00:39] the big trucks get through between the

[1:00:41] two um those other those other two or at

[1:00:44] least one of them probably isn't going

[1:00:46] to survive it if it ever happens.

[1:00:48] >> They give all again the bones

[1:00:51] » They give all again the bones

[1:00:51] definitions that they looked into it. um

[1:00:54] that other locations that have supported

[1:00:57] that kind of floating drive, but you're

[1:00:59] absolutely correct. Nobody no promises

[1:01:01] here other than we can put some

[1:01:03] protection on on the trees. But

[1:01:06] >> yeah, I'm thinking of the overhead that

[1:01:07] » yeah, I'm thinking of the overhead that

[1:01:07] the way it's allowed now to take the one

[1:01:10] out. It's very narrow.

[1:01:11] >> Actually, if you go take a look at it,

[1:01:12] » Actually, if you go take a look at it,

[1:01:12] you take the one out of there,

[1:01:14] >> there's not much left overhanging. Well,

[1:01:17] » there's not much left overhanging. Well,

[1:01:17] they'll have to clear out,

[1:01:19] >> right?

[1:01:20] » right?

[1:01:20] >> That's what I remember when I looked at

[1:01:21] » That's what I remember when I looked at

[1:01:21] it. Yeah, it's fairly

[1:01:23] >> I thought it was fairly slim one in the

[1:01:25] » I thought it was fairly slim one in the

[1:01:25] middle and the other two were

[1:01:27] >> it's once someone goes out there will be

[1:01:29] » it's once someone goes out there will be

[1:01:29] a natural almost natural.

[1:01:30] >> Oh, is that right? Okay.

[1:01:32] » Oh, is that right? Okay.

[1:01:32] >> All right.

[1:01:33] » All right.

[1:01:33] >> But we're still a ways from that as much

[1:01:36] » But we're still a ways from that as much

[1:01:36] as

[1:01:37] >> there's a number of steps to get through

[1:01:40] » there's a number of steps to get through

[1:01:40] to get to that. Right.

[1:01:44] >> Right. Because what we added was

[1:01:46] » Right. Because what we added was

[1:01:46] uh shading of the windows that was to

[1:01:49] the units to the north. Right. Uh the

[1:01:54] fourth street streetscape

[1:01:56] overlook

[1:01:58] incorporating play areas. Right.

[1:02:03] And then in relation to the floating

[1:02:07] driveway that there be supervision by a

[1:02:10] consulting record,

[1:02:11] >> right?

[1:02:13] » right?

[1:02:13] >> But as point out, we're

[1:02:17] » But as point out, we're

[1:02:17] a distance away from that. Yeah.

[1:02:21] Okay. Any other questions, comments

[1:02:23] about that one? like just what I saw at

[1:02:26] that popup session and just thought

[1:02:28] might be curious to hear that the play

[1:02:30] area looks like um they were planning on

[1:02:32] I don't know if you remember the little

[1:02:33] notch in the south side it's like right

[1:02:35] in the corner of that notch they were

[1:02:37] talking about probably going to put the

[1:02:38] play area there they hadn't established

[1:02:39] what exactly that'll be but it looks

[1:02:40] like that's their plan to put it down in

[1:02:43] that corner

[1:02:44] >> just I got a comment I saw that on

[1:02:46] » just I got a comment I saw that on

[1:02:46] social media that

[1:02:49] Allison have they talked to you at all

[1:02:51] because what are they doing what

[1:02:54] put some ideas around. They haven't even

[1:02:55] talked to staff.

[1:02:57] >> I haven't heard about that yet.

[1:02:59] » I haven't heard about that yet.

[1:02:59] >> Um

[1:03:00] » Um

[1:03:00] >> was like last Friday.

[1:03:01] » was like last Friday.

[1:03:01] >> Yeah, they did have an on-site open

[1:03:03] » Yeah, they did have an on-site open

[1:03:03] house for the for the community for

[1:03:06] neighbors.

[1:03:07] >> Um one of our staff went by and saw that

[1:03:09] » Um one of our staff went by and saw that

[1:03:09] it seemed to be pretty well attended

[1:03:10] even when it first started at 4 p.m. So

[1:03:13] >> interesting. Okay. All right. I'm going

[1:03:16] » interesting. Okay. All right. I'm going

[1:03:16] to ask for a motion to adjurnn.

[1:03:19] Amy seconded

[1:03:21] in favor. Thank you very

Advisory Planning Commission - 02 Jun 2026

Transcript