[0:26] We'll uh go ahead and get started uh with the 2027

[0:31] Zansville budget workshop. Mr. Mayor, floor is yours.

[0:35] » Good morning. Thank you. >> Morning.

[0:36] » Uh good to see everybody here this morning to talk through this. Um you

[0:40] have all received a copy of the 2027 proposed budget which breaks down

[0:44] spending by category and each town department. Um and so everyone who may

[0:49] be watching online is aware of the process so far. Uh the administration

[0:54] generated this budget with department heads and our financial consultants at

[0:57] CRO. Then we took a deep dive into each department's spending plan which

[1:02] included a liazison from the council and I want to thank those of you on the

[1:06] council who helped in this process. It was very uh productive and very

[1:10] meaningful. So thank you very much for that. Um, this is not the final document

[1:15] that we're going to be presenting today, but the process will help us stay on

[1:18] track to complete and file the 2027 budget by the state imposed deadline of

[1:24] November 1st. So, the goal here is three-fold. U, what we're going to

[1:28] propose is a planned temporary deficit funded by reserves that we built for

[1:33] exactly this purpose. targeted hires to catch up after two years of a hiring

[1:38] freeze and a path back to positive cash flow by 2030. So, let's begin with the

[1:44] big picture. Uh, we are on track to end 2026 with a reserve of about $40.4

[1:51] million, which would put our surplus at about 85%.

[1:55] For 2026 alone, we anticipate a surplus of about $3.2 $2 million dollars, but

[2:01] that is largely due to incumbrances that were forwarded to next year and our

[2:06] supplemental lit payment coming in higher than anticipated. And I want to

[2:10] point out and and state very clearly that neither of those conditions will

[2:13] exist in 2027. Therefore, uh the proposed budget that

[2:18] we have for you for 2027, we anticipate total expenses of about $52.6 million

[2:25] against revenue of $51 million. So this budget uses about 1.65 million in

[2:31] reserves again purposely and temporarily to get us through this year as we work

[2:37] through the effects of sea 1, the 2025 state property tax law that limits our

[2:43] revenue growth. So at the end of 2027 um our reserves will fall to about 38.7

[2:50] million lowering our percentage from 85% to 74%.

[2:55] And I want to point out that that is still very comfortably above our minimum

[2:59] surplus goal of 15 to 20%. Now therefore, um I I know a lot of you and

[3:06] I myself would not favor using reserve funds for operating expenses because I

[3:09] think long term that is unsustainable to do that. However, uh we do have a 5-year

[3:15] plan in place that shows that we can spend this money now to sustain our

[3:19] operations and level of service that's expected by our constituents. Once all

[3:24] current aspects of SEA1 are in place, we should be able to achieve positive cash

[3:29] flow once again by 2030. Now, to get into the details here, uh I want to

[3:35] start with employee pay. Now, due to the way the calendar falls in 2027, all of

[3:40] our employees will get 27 paychecks this year instead of 26. So, if we keep

[3:46] everyone at the same rate, they will realize an increase in salary for the

[3:49] year of 3.85%. This is not only a base salary increase

[3:55] for 2027, it will be the new base that we can build upon in 2028. And if

[4:01] council agrees to this pay hike, we plan to reach out through our HR department

[4:04] to all employees to explain in small group settings how this will be carried

[4:08] out. But again, the proposal is for an effective pay increase of 3.85%

[4:14] for all employees across the board. In addition, we propose to increase our

[4:19] longevity pay for all employees who qualify at every level. And notably

[4:23] [clears throat] what this does is this raises the certified salary for our

[4:27] public service employees, public safety employees, excuse me, which forms the

[4:31] basis for their retirement pay through Indiana's public employee retirement

[4:35] fund. We should also note the state has increased the employer contribution uh

[4:41] of PEF [gasps] to 26.5%. That's an increase of 3% and

[4:47] the town will absorb that. We have had a soft hiring freeze in place since the

[4:52] beginning of 2025 after the legislature passed SEA1. And this budget proposal

[4:56] calls for adding several members to the staff to support our current employees

[5:00] who I think have done a great job providing services to the town while

[5:04] being a bit short-handed over the last couple of years. So here is the proposed

[5:09] new hiring that we have. Uh it starts with public safety and that would

[5:14] include six firefighters also one IT professional who will devote

[5:20] the vast majority of their time to serving police and fire IT needs. I

[5:24] consider this to be a public safety hire as well. And as we get into the fire

[5:28] department and police department budgets, we'll talk a little more about

[5:31] that, but this person would be working under the IT department. Also, one

[5:35] person for the Department of Public Works streets division to get us closer

[5:39] to matching our employee count to a formula that includes population and

[5:43] lane miles of road that we maintain. Also, a deputy director of planning and

[5:48] building to help handle the increased volume of work that they have taken on

[5:53] and the reducing reduced staff levels that they have uh experienced over the

[5:57] last couple years. Now again, we're going to go into each department

[6:01] individually and uh talk about their budget and personnel needs and plan to

[6:05] do that by providing an overview of each and then then you can ask the pertinent

[6:09] department heads questions uh that you may have. So I'm going to ask Chief Van

[6:13] Gorder uh and the fire crew to head over to the uh desk over there as we begin

[6:18] with the fire department. This is our biggest budget expense. Takes up about

[6:23] 41% of the overall budget. Now, I mentioned hiring six new firefighters in

[6:28] 2027, and I do understand uh that the department would like to have more,

[6:33] especially with a new station opening up uh later this in 2027 in Western

[6:38] Zansville. But these new positions are a first step, and they will cover both 27

[6:43] and 28. We have had several conversations among myself, the chief,

[6:47] and council members. and we plan to propose significant new firefighter

[6:52] hires in 29 and 30 to move the department closer to its staffing goals.

[6:57] There is also the possibility of getting more staff through a safer grant from

[7:01] the federal government as we did in 2022. I have asked the fire department

[7:05] to engage in that application process. So with that, um, let me turn up go

[7:10] ahead here. You can see some of the basic numbers for the fire department on

[7:13] your screen. I know you have more in-depth information in your packets,

[7:17] but uh I'd like to direct you if you have any questions or any concerns, if

[7:21] you'd like to share those with the chief um and um Jason and

[7:26] um [clears throat] >> Aaron

[7:29] » Aaron over there right now. >> So maybe maybe it'd be good just real

[7:33] quick uh what format do you want here? Do you are we going to hand it over to

[7:37] them to present to us or do you want us to review? We've already reviewed this

[7:40] stuff. Do we ask questions now or afterwards? Yes.

[7:42] » I think now's a good time to ask questions to the to the department

[7:45] heads. >> Okay.

[7:47] » So, >> yeah, we didn't have a formal

[7:49] presentation. In addition, we're here to answer questions.

[7:51] » That's great. >> Do you want me to go ahead and lead it

[7:53] in? >> Yeah, go ahead.

[7:53] » So, so as the budget leaison for the fire department, work closely with the

[7:57] mayor and uh >> Chief Van Gorder and his deputy chiefs.

[8:01] Thank you all for for your tireless work and thank you the mayor too. Um this

[8:06] budget process was probably um this was a much easier process than than past

[8:11] years. I will say that. Um I think that a considerable impact on um the the fire

[8:18] department and the operations obviously is personnel. We continue to talk about

[8:22] that at every safety board meeting. Um when we talk about personnel issues and

[8:27] and staffing for the fire department. I think that these uh six additional

[8:30] firefighters for this next year will ensure that we can keep uh stations um

[8:36] 291, 292, and 293 open. Um as well as adding to our firefighters next year uh

[8:43] at the new station 295 eventually when it's completed. So um that that's the

[8:49] the biggest the biggest hurdle in this whole process has been those six new new

[8:54] firefighters. Um and then of course equipment and and ongoing things. So,

[8:59] um, happy to turn it over. >> Yeah. The only thing else I would like

[9:04] to add is again was really appreciate the mayor uh standing firm and helping

[9:09] support public safety. Not only is this the six firefighters plan for 2027, but

[9:14] the mayor has developed a four-year plan to address all of the fire department

[9:18] staffing needs. with us. I'd like to thank uh our local 5195 union

[9:22] representative, our district trustee uh Luke Miller for being here who's been

[9:27] instrumental in reviewing this material. And I would say labor and management

[9:30] stand here in support of this four-year plan to address the staffing needs in

[9:34] the fire department. >> 23, right, in the four-year plan. Yeah,

[9:39] it's about 18 to 23 total individuals, [clears throat]

[9:43] » which will be a a considerable step in especially coming in 2029, 2030, right,

[9:49] is when we believe we'll be able to make sub a lot of those those hires, which

[9:55] eventually as as systems be continue to come online, this will probably work out

[9:59] pretty well. >> Yeah. And the other important thing here

[10:01] is that uh the fire department working with a safety board had been uh having

[10:05] discussions and prepared a plan if we were not able to receive uh the minimum

[10:11] of six individual new hires. And if we were not able to achieve the six that

[10:16] would change our service delivery in the fact that fire station 293 in kind of

[10:22] west central area that protects Stonegate and Royal Run, we would have

[10:25] seen a reduction in staffing and services to the community there. Right

[10:28] now there's an engine and ambulance. we would have to uh reduce one of those

[10:32] crews uh and reassign them. This plan moving forward does not allow that to

[10:37] happen and fire station 293 remain staffed as it is today.

[10:44] This isn't this is as expected fair like because we knew when 295 was going to

[10:49] come online that when we took over Perry Township um that this eventually was

[10:53] going to happen. Yeah, we we had hoped for a little bit uh longer of a

[10:57] transition plan with Perry regarding their dissolution. Uh but they had

[11:01] indicated to us that they're in a much shorter timeline uh towards dissolving

[11:05] and going away. So we needed to act a little sooner than what we had first

[11:08] anticipated

[11:11] » questions. Anyone [clears throat] >> are you able to quantify? Let's I know

[11:16] zero is the low end, but let's assume that the grant comes through. How many

[11:21] additional firefighters would that potentially be able to bring on?

[11:28] » It depends what the application is. One of the the questions always becomes the

[11:31] with a grain application is the town of Zansville becomes responsible to ensure

[11:35] employment of those individuals. So it may on the the front end seem like oh

[11:38] well let's put in for the balance of those individuals right away but then

[11:42] we're also responsible to make sure that we gainfully employ them. If not we're

[11:46] responsible to fund back those funds. So it's going to be really a bit of a

[11:49] balancing act. Uh last time we did this, we put in for six individuals. I would

[11:52] expect that number to be just a little bit north of additional six individuals

[11:56] through a safer uh application. Again, we worked successfully with a third

[12:01] party vendor uh to submit that grant and we have not begun that process. The

[12:04] mayor has directed us to. Uh we're working on uh with a director of finance

[12:09] and records and closing out our current grant application. And as soon as we get

[12:12] that grant closed, then we'd be able to begin to prepare for the submission

[12:16] process, which doesn't happen until mid 2027, mid next year. So the earliest we

[12:22] would receive funds would be 28 or after.

[12:25] » Okay. So then we could potentially have pressure on the budget in 28

[12:32] [clears throat and cough] because we fund them, we get the grant, but then

[12:35] the grant ends and then we have six new people that we have to fund.

[12:39] » Right? That wouldn't be till three years later. So you start in 28, 29, 30, and

[12:43] then that would become our burden in 31. >> Great.

[12:46] » Hopefully by that time we've everything has starting to even out, right? And

[12:50] then those six we can just build that in to existing budgets and then have that

[12:54] in to perpetuity. Right. >> I didn't realize there was such a delay

[12:58] in the helps. >> You get it for a couple years before

[13:00] they yank that money from you. >> Yeah.

[13:03] » And I would point out too, the last time we did the safer grant, there was no way

[13:07] that we could have anticipated SEA1, right? you know, so when we had those

[13:11] six firefighters come into the budget this year, that was a little bit of a of

[13:15] a hurdle that we had to overcome, but now we're budgeting on a five-year plan.

[13:19] So, we know what our situation is going to look like in 2031. Uh, and this seems

[13:23] like a like a very good solution for us to pull those hires forward and and get

[13:28] up to fully staffed status sooner. >> Sure. Thanks.

[13:32] » Just to clarify, if I can, um, and we all knew that the we're all aware of the

[13:38] needs. We all see the the the new fire station having to be

[13:42] fully staffed and and one coming even further after that. So, we know we're

[13:45] going to have to add what another 15 firefighters in the next few years. Um

[13:50] the grant that you're talking about would not be for the six that we're

[13:53] putting on now. It' be for the sixth the following year.

[13:56] » That would be correct. >> Just to clarify, um I guess it's really

[14:00] just a question as much for for the mayor, especially for folks watching.

[14:04] So, all six of the new firefighters we would hire this year, which would not be

[14:09] part of the grant, would be funded with operational deficit spending

[14:14] uh for 2027, which I think we would support. Um, but help the public

[14:19] understand watching why that changes after 2027 and it no longer becomes

[14:25] operationally dependent on deficit. >> Well, it does in 2027 and 2028. uh in

[14:32] 2029 we get closer to evening out in 2030 we will be able to control our own

[14:37] tax rate at that time and we can uh tax at an appropriate level to fund the

[14:42] services that we need here in Zensville. So SEA1 uh is a phased in product right

[14:50] now. Um so we're shifting I mean the big picture is we're shifting from property

[14:55] taxes to income taxes to fund our government. And as that shift occurs,

[15:01] you know, there's going to be a bit of a deficit until we get to the point where

[15:05] we're less reliant on property taxes. >> Yeah. I just want folks following along

[15:09] to realize that we this [clears throat] is what we're suggesting now. Future

[15:13] council will have to vote for tax increases on that shift to make sure

[15:18] that we're covering. >> Well, it's not a tax increase

[15:20] necessarily. It's setting the tax rate. Right now, we don't set the the uh local

[15:26] income tax rate under the terms of SEA1. Right now, the

[15:31] all municipalities will be doing that uh in 2028 uh for collection in 29. And we

[15:37] first receive those revenues in 2030, but

[15:40] » you would have to have some increase in order to cover these costs of

[15:43] firefighters more than what people are paying currently. I

[15:46] » I don't know that that's necessarily true. And and maybe Tim Barry is here

[15:49] with Crow. He can explain that a little further. It's a shifting of of where the

[15:53] taxes >> you're just coming out are levied

[15:55] whether from property taxes to local income tax.

[15:58] » It'll be based on your >> I understand that people are paying less

[16:01] in property taxes but action will have to be taken to pass new lit revenue. It

[16:07] may be about depending on where your taxes are in terms of income versus

[16:11] property. Some people are going to pay more some people may pay less. Some

[16:13] people may come out flat. I'm just explaining to people that they may hear

[16:17] that this council may have to pass a lit increase to cover those dollars that are

[16:23] no longer coming in through property taxes.

[16:26] » Well, I I think I think to be clear, it's no secret that that a council for

[16:31] the town of Zansville will be required to increase the tax.

[16:35] » That's what I'm just trying to have, >> but I think everybody in the public

[16:37] knows that, too. There's no reason to to >> We just went through this last meeting.

[16:41] » I mean, this is this is going to happen. So I think I think it's just important

[16:46] to to have that. >> That's my point, Jason, is that I for

[16:48] folks tracking and if I'm watching and thinking, hey, there's gonna be a

[16:51] deficit. How why is that change? Why does all of a sudden the deficit

[16:54] spending close the gap? It's going to it's going to close through a lit. But

[16:58] no secret, but I don't know if everyone knows that. I would venture to say if I

[17:01] pulled my neighbors, I don't know that most people know that that's coming

[17:04] because they haven't always dialed in every meeting that we have. In fact,

[17:07] some of our meetings haven't even been been shown on television the way they

[17:10] should have. Go ahead, >> Tim Barry with Crow. Um, I might add

[17:15] that the changes as a result of Senate Enrolled Act One uh will change the

[17:21] local income tax um from how it is allocated. Those taxes

[17:27] are allocated today based upon property tax levy. As you recall, the town of

[17:33] Zansville is a loser in that scenario because

[17:38] uh the town's property tax levy is not as high as some neighboring communities.

[17:44] So, it is undetermined what that rate that will be necessary to fund moving

[17:50] forward. But I will say that Zansville will benefit in the fact that uh the

[17:56] incomes of Zansville uh the income tax dollars of Zansville will stay in

[18:02] Zansville with the rate that is established by the town council. And

[18:08] that may not be as uh high of a rate as some other neighboring communities will

[18:14] need to adopt because of that levy in balance that is taking place today and

[18:21] the income imbalance between the town of Zansville and other communities in the

[18:26] county. I think that SCA1 has gotten a lot of um negative undertones because

[18:33] it's easier for uh understanding that it has changed what is status quo. But I do

[18:41] think there's positivity in SEA1 that people overlook because they don't

[18:45] understand it. And I think um having more control on our local dollars is the

[18:51] ultimate goal of SEA1. It's just changing from property taxes that are

[18:58] divvied up not necessarily according to where they came from. And Tim called us

[19:04] a loser. We're not losers. No. Um but we are contributors to our county. So

[19:11] that's a that's a big point that I think I believe is what they're angling to

[19:17] change with SEA1 that has the bad taste in everyone's mouth. But I think this is

[19:22] the positive part of SEA1, the direction that is the legislation. I think they

[19:28] get a lot of bad rap for this. And I think this is the part that people don't

[19:34] understand that is I guess angled to be better for

[19:38] Zansville. We can finally um pay for our own. And

[19:44] the goal is for the balance of people who don't have income and struggle with

[19:50] their property taxes to feel less of the burden and the people who are making

[19:55] income to be able to have their money go to their town. So that's my

[20:01] understanding of SEA1. I'm not an expert on it, but I do read on it and watch um

[20:07] you know just different explanations of it and I believe that is what is

[20:11] supposed to be happening per the legislation.

[20:15] » Better for donors, not good for the recipients, the net recipients. There

[20:20] are towns around us who got more money because of their growth rate and um it

[20:28] will hurt them when it comes down to what income level they are at.

[20:34] » Well, yeah. Well, Scienceville continues to medium home values in the $750,000

[20:41] range, right? Strong income tax will help support us.

[20:47] » Yeah, I think we're all comfortable doing it. I just want to make sure folks

[20:49] at home are understanding why we would purposely pass a budget that wasn't

[20:54] quote balanced on paper. That's how the mayor opened the meeting. Right.

[20:57] » Well, I'm not comfortable with that. But um I do know that sometimes when we are

[21:03] applying for grants and we have a large percentage of reserves, uh we get look

[21:09] less favorably because it looks like well you could cover it. So, this is not

[21:14] a complete negative either to spend down your reserve a little bit because you do

[21:18] end up um looking more balanced. And even the county where we just had the

[21:23] reallocation of the fire department u requests,

[21:29] our fire department needs money too, but we don't look as needy. So, it would be

[21:34] harder pressed to to go to the county and and have them have just done

[21:39] [clears throat] a special distribution for us. So that's that's another

[21:44] positive which sounds like a negative. S spending down your reserves a little bit

[21:48] is not a bad thing. [clears throat] >> Yeah. No, it's not. And and kudos to

[21:53] previous councils u many of them who we owe the gratitude I think for having a

[22:00] $40 million deficit that we were to having a $40 million

[22:05] » surplus. Surplus. >> Uh yeah like that's the wrong word.

[22:09] » We're not losers and we don't have that allows us to be able to do this. So, I

[22:14] think we've been fiscally uh responsible in the last decade.

[22:19] » And I I would point out too that it works both ways in addition to, you

[22:22] know, maybe some grants looking at us less favorably because we have high

[22:26] reserves. Uh the rating agencies like to see those high reserves and as we go to

[22:30] the market in bonding for the new fire station, for the new DPW center, that

[22:35] works in our favor. having having those high reserves

[22:38] » turns into that balance of that special sweet spot.

[22:41] » So what would you say the sweet spot is? That's what I was sitting here. Is it I

[22:45] know 20 15 to 20 is kind of our target, >> right?

[22:48] » But when you've worked with the agencies closely, I mean is 30% more of a sweet

[22:55] spot because then we're favorable to the bonding agencies but then our ability

[23:01] maybe a question for Tim. >> Worth of that.

[23:03] » It's high even higher than that. Okay. I I think they'd like to see it as high as

[23:07] we can get it. Uh I think over 60% is probably preferable to them. Um you

[23:11] know, we're not the only town that's wrestling with the effects of SEA1.

[23:15] Every municipality in Indiana is going through this right now. And I think the

[23:19] ra rating agencies are kind of looking sideways at everybody in Indiana at the

[23:23] moment because of this unsettled period that we're in. Uh but us coming in with

[23:28] a high uh reserve percentage is something that has really worked in our

[23:32] favor and it's been been a positive. I mean, the bonds for the fire station

[23:36] were 3.8%. Uh, try getting a mortgage for 3.8%

[23:40] these days. You can't do it. I mean, that's that's pretty good and that

[23:43] speaks well for what the market believes about Zensville's economic future.

[23:48] » There are three things three things on that point I want to add very quickly.

[23:52] Um, one is our ISO rating. Chief, can you very quickly talk about how

[23:57] important the ISO rating is and why why having new more firefighters for ISO

[24:02] matters? Yeah. Uh the insurance service office,

[24:06] what you're referring to, uh has a rating for the fire departments uh

[24:09] throughout the state of Indiana, throughout the nation. Um and that

[24:12] insurance rating equates to what we as individual property owners pay in our

[24:17] annual homeowners insurance premiums. The lower the score like a golf score,

[24:21] the better off you are. We are on the cusp uh of being a class one fire

[24:26] department. We are a class two uh fire department. Uh we are evaluated for the

[24:31] number of fire stations, the proximity of those fire stations to our residents,

[24:36] the response time, the staffing that is there. Uh will the six firefighters

[24:41] ensure that we are a class one? It'll help. It will not be 100% of it, but it

[24:45] is a big component of what goes on uh in evaluating the insurance service office

[24:50] delivery of services to our community. And then and then the other thing we

[24:54] didn't talk about um the the the the increase across the board for for pay.

[25:01] How how is that going to go across with the department?

[25:03] » Yeah, I think uh couple two two things are very important in this budget to

[25:07] public safety, just not the firefighters, and I won't speak for

[25:09] Chief Spears, but I know our uh law enforcement brother and sisters in blue

[25:12] that are in the merit system uh is recruitment and retention. Uh currently

[25:17] uh this year uh Zansville uh town of Zansville ranks below the 60th

[25:22] organization in longevity pay. So we are well below our neighboring areas. One of

[25:28] the things that the mayor has implemented as part of this plan is to

[25:31] increase our longevity pay which will move that up and help our base pay so

[25:36] that our incumbent firefighters as well as recruitment efforts will be able to

[25:40] be competitive with neighboring areas. We will not be the highest. will not be

[25:44] in the top three or so, but it'll at least put us back up towards the top to

[25:48] be competitive for both police and fire for recruitment and retention.

[25:52] » And what is that longevity years? How does how do you end up getting the

[25:56] longevity pay? >> Um, based upon state law, it says that a

[26:00] uh pension base is determined by base pay plus 20 years of service unless you

[26:05] are a local unionized organization. The fire department does have a recognized

[26:10] union. So therefore, we are able to account for or accredit and add up to 25

[26:15] years worth of longevity. Some people ask why is the police and fire

[26:19] different? Again, that's one of the uh many benefits of having a union and the

[26:22] fire department is we're able to account and add the 25th year of longevity pay.

[26:30] » Chief, I had a quick question about the uh uh the budget that's in front of us.

[26:34] Looks like on 27 28 29 on personal ser person personnel services there's a

[26:40] there's a I guess it goes down a million dollars then back up. Can you explain?

[26:46] » Yeah, I would have to defer to Tim Barry and financing records. I can tell you

[26:49] that we've been working on a five-year budget with the mayor and stuff and I

[26:53] would say that 27's pretty rock solid with all the numbers that we have and uh

[26:57] 28 and beyond are kind of some projections right now and I'd say

[27:00] they're not quite finished. >> Does that represent grant funding? uh

[27:04] that does not count take into account any grant funding. I think it's more

[27:06] just some administrative administrative cleaning up that needs to be done in 28

[27:10] 29 and 30 uh within the plan they have.

[27:17] » Can you speak to um the six firefighters and the retirements? Um, are

[27:26] we able to continue to replace everyone who's retiring then which would not be

[27:31] included as an additional person or do we anticipate having some positions dip

[27:36] down as people retire? I'm I'm just trying to follow when we have people go

[27:41] to training and how it's cyclical and wondered if we would see

[27:50] I guess unplanned possible savings from timing of retirements versus bringing

[27:56] new people on or is that anticipated that we're going to bring extra people

[28:01] on early as people are rolling off? I believe in the six months between

[28:06] January and July we might have a couple of retirements.

[28:11] » Will we and will we bring an additional two people on to be trained so that when

[28:16] the retirees roll off the numbers would stay the same personnel wise but it

[28:22] would almost appear to be two over for a few months or how does that work with

[28:26] timing of training? >> You're exactly correct counselor. Um

[28:31] Zenzo Fire Department has been received written notification from two

[28:34] individuals who are planning to retire um at the end of Q1 2027. Um it is our

[28:41] intent to hire two individuals in in addition to the six the so this is uh we

[28:48] talk about retirements. This is not part of the plus six as we talk about it

[28:51] internally to our firefighters. Uh we would look to hire two additional

[28:55] individuals. We would start them in January. One may say, "Wait a second.

[28:59] You don't need them till April when they retire." Keep in mind that when we hire

[29:03] individuals, they have to go off to a 22- week academy. And we actually won't

[29:06] see those individuals come to work for us until June. So, they're actually

[29:09] going to be after where they are. We will have a short two or three month

[29:13] period of time. We'll be paying both salaries. How are we able to achieve

[29:16] that? Uh, a couple of things is one, we have to just absorb those extra costs

[29:20] within our budget. It's not part of an additional dollar amount or a bucket of

[29:23] money that we've put in there. But we're also think about this way. We have uh

[29:27] individuals with 20 plus years of service that have 20 years of longevity.

[29:31] Uh and we'll be replacing those with individuals with one year. And then

[29:34] individuals with one I'm looking to HR to confirm years one through three or

[29:37] one through four don't get any longevity. So there'd be some cost

[29:40] savings there and going from a senior employee to a more junior employee. Um

[29:45] you know from the safety board discussions that the fire department uh

[29:48] has been challenged with staffing. We have two current vacancies. We're super

[29:52] excited to share that through the recruitment effort of Captain Campbell,

[29:56] our paramedic uh firefighter hiring has gone excellent. We have two individuals

[30:00] that should be working as laterals, meaning they were experienced

[30:04] firefighters somewhere else coming to shift for us before November of this

[30:07] year. That's great. Uh we'll help fill some voids. And then we also look to go

[30:11] back to that fair, excuse me, firefighter paramedic hiring list. There

[30:14] are four more individuals on that list and extend four of the six job offers

[30:18] that are coming to that. So that again, we're adding paramedics to the fire

[30:22] department, which has also been something we've talked about at the

[30:24] safety board level. And I'm sure as you guys have traveled around and heard from

[30:27] our firefighters, we are short in the paramedic field. Also want to give kudo

[30:31] to our incumbent firefighters that we have three of our current firefighters

[30:34] that are off in paramedic school right now and they will graduate in June or

[30:37] July of next year. >> That sounds like great news.

[30:43] » Thank you. >> Any other questions for Chief Van Gorder

[30:47] and his team?

[30:51] Okay. Well, the next uh department up, thank you, gentlemen. The next

[30:54] department up is the police department. Um, and we are not asking for new

[30:58] officers at this time. We believe the department is currently uh well staffed.

[31:02] However, there are three areas that are going to be transitioning from rural to

[31:06] urban. Wild Air, the courtyards of Russell Lakes, and the courtyards of

[31:10] Heritage Trail. And obviously, very few people live there now. Uh, but

[31:15] population in those areas will grow. We know that for sure. So, uh we plan to

[31:20] propose adding three to five new police officers by 2031. Uh but again, none of

[31:26] those new hires are uh in the pipeline for 2027. And with that, I I put the

[31:32] numbers on the screen for you and uh Chief and his team are sitting at the

[31:36] table to answer any questions. >> Yeah, if there are any uh questions for

[31:42] Chief Spears and his team, I I don't have any questions. Oh, I just let me

[31:46] I'll just open it up for real quick one more time as a the budget leaison for

[31:50] police. I want to thank um Chief Spears, Captain Samuelson for for their hard

[31:55] work. Um this this budget proposal adds I believe the biggest biggest expense

[32:01] here is new vehicles, right? There there's a few new vehicles uh that that

[32:05] we want to to add to the fleet. >> Actually, there's a decrease in number

[32:09] of vehicles that we are purchasing this year.

[32:11] » Right. Right. But we're still adding. So, I mean, that's the biggest expense,

[32:15] right, for for the department this year. And then we we talked adnauseium about

[32:19] about new hires, and it sounds like again, as more neighborhoods come

[32:23] online, there will be a need in future years, but but you're this budget

[32:27] proposal does not add any new police officers to the force this year, right?

[32:34] And and you're fine with with that as as we sit here right now?

[32:38] » Yes. Fortunately, we're fully staffed right now. Uh although two of our

[32:42] officers just started the Indiana Law Enforcement Training Academy today. So

[32:46] they're they're in uh some form of training for the next several months,

[32:50] but once they're out, we'll be fully staffed and uh and I feel like we're

[32:54] we're good for next year. >> Very easy.

[32:59] » All right. Any other questions for Chief and his

[33:03] team? >> Thanks.

[33:07] » Thank you guys. >> Thank you. Uh I'm kind of going in the

[33:10] order of size of the departments and and uh impact on the budget. So the next one

[33:14] will be DPW and Lance is going to take the table here obviously for streets,

[33:18] facilities, and storm water. We we'll focus on streets first and you will

[33:23] notice uh in the request there there's a request for one new employee um to get

[33:28] us closer closer to the staffing that is commensurate with the formula that takes

[33:32] into account the number of people served the number of lane miles of road that we

[33:36] service as well as I mentioned before the anticipated movement of several

[33:40] areas from rural to urban. Uh another notable item is Lance's move the Oak

[33:45] Street path construction to 2028. uh we will work on obtaining rights of

[33:50] way in 2027. So the project is not falling off the radar. It's just moving

[33:55] on a timeline that uh fits into our budget a little better than uh

[34:00] previously announced. So um if anybody is concerned about the Oak Street

[34:05] Pathway not going forward, it is going forward uh albeit on a little different

[34:09] time schedule. So with that in mind, if we could stick to the streets um

[34:14] category right now, any questions for Lance on that? and he would be happy I'm

[34:19] sure to answer those

[34:28] inter lance intersection improvement um there is there any big asks for next

[34:36] year in terms of you know where you want to see

[34:41] I'm thinking of intersections like I'm thinking of in front of St. house. I'm

[34:44] thinking of in front of here at town hall. I'm thinking of 200 in in

[34:49] Michigan, which I know is in DOT's territory. Is there anything in this

[34:52] budget for next year that that is a need or a want that didn't make it in or

[35:00] » the needs and wants are many? [laughter] >> Yes.

[35:02] » Um but at this point, there is no focus project contemplated in the budget. um

[35:08] we don't have the funding in the near-term horizon to fund the

[35:12] preliminary phases of any major road construction even if we get a grant um

[35:16] or crossings or any types of those only cover construction. Um Mr. Mayweather is

[35:21] putting together a list of the top dozen or so um having merged the comprehensive

[35:27] plan which was recently completed along with our most recent traffic impact

[35:31] study. So he is building sort of a prioritized list of these areas to vet

[35:36] with the mayor and council as well so that when funding opportunities do arise

[35:40] as far as grants we can be prepared to do that and we kind of all agree on what

[35:44] the next you know one or two transportation projects should be but

[35:47] the budget does not include any significant intersection projects.

[35:51] » Could you could you speak real quickly to the kind of the jump in capital

[35:54] outlays in 2028? What is that project or what what are you looking at

[35:57] » in 2028? 2028. >> Yeah, that's a little over. It's almost

[36:01] 1.9 million. That's phases three uh phases four and five of the Oak Street

[36:05] pathway to connect. Originally, we had broken this out into five phases to to

[36:10] make it a little more um by the bite of the elephant type approach and

[36:14] affordable on an annual basis. Uh the last two phases, phase three will be be

[36:19] under contract this year and probably constructed next year. What we did is

[36:23] combine phases four and five because uh they can include a bridge uh over the

[36:28] creek out west and then [clears throat] a really small segment. So it it made

[36:32] more sense to spend a year getting engineering completed so that we have

[36:37] more accurate cost. So when we're at this point next year, uh instead of a a

[36:41] high level estimate, we could have something more approaching a

[36:44] construction cost >> and that would 2028 we would be able to

[36:46] finish the pathway at that point >> in 2020 2028. We would at least get it

[36:51] under contract uh if not constructed. >> Thank you.

[36:59] I think this is one of our big areas. We get a lot of push back from our

[37:04] constituents that they would like to see the infrastructure

[37:08] improvements um especially in the north side where the c county roads are

[37:13] getting um crowded especially during rush hour um or school hours.

[37:23] Do you work with the county to um pay for those improvements or are we

[37:31] completely at the mercy of the county to get something like 300?

[37:37] » We we work with the county and we're always looking for opportunities to

[37:41] partner. There are some more some lesser significant projects uh that could

[37:46] evolve um in the next year or two or three that are partnerships with the

[37:51] county and INDOT, but those are still in their infancy.

[37:57] » I'm interested in seeing the intersection improvement uh the top

[38:02] dozen. Um and I won't be afraid to say it. That's

[38:07] something I would consider midyear if we come up with ways that um could help

[38:13] some of our traffic uh congestion in specific areas as we

[38:19] look at that list. >> Um I would I would love to announce that

[38:23] we're doing something major for everyone that's frustrated.

[38:26] » Understood. And of course with the the financial outlook, you know, we don't

[38:30] have money for these projects. >> I understand that. Um, but we're looking

[38:33] forward to working with the mayor and getting his concurrence and input. Um,

[38:37] and then he would engage the council leadership to see what you wanted to do

[38:41] for rolling out our unfunded plan. >> Right.

[38:46] It's just hard to explain that we can use our reserves for some things. And if

[38:50] this is one of our people's biggest complaints that we're hearing about, I

[38:56] think that this [clears throat] is not a bad area to focus on.

[39:01] Thank you. >> I I I would tend to agree. Thank you.

[39:06] » That's just since it came up the I think I think a lot of people talk about 300

[39:11] which is a county project. I think I did I not recently hear that maybe there's

[39:15] been some movement though from the county to maybe move forward with doing

[39:19] something >> on three. Is that an intersection

[39:21] project? Are you talking about the intersection?

[39:23] » The the widening. >> Oh, the widening. Uh no. I the

[39:28] intersection there are some intersection projects under consideration but as far

[39:31] as overall widening throughout the corridor I've not heard anything about

[39:34] that. >> Thank you. Maybe wishful thinking.

[39:41] » Any other questions for Mr. Lance?

[39:45] » Thank you. >> All right. He's going to stay in the

[39:47] seat to talk about facilities which I think is pretty straightforward. I don't

[39:50] have any additional comments but uh the numbers are on your screen right now. on

[39:54] Lance. I don't know if you have anything more to say about facilities.

[39:59] » Uh, not really except there is one um thing to recognize and that is that the

[40:04] mayor's restructuring of responsibilities, the increase in

[40:08] services and charges. The facilities maintenance division has taken over the

[40:13] billings for the security of all the facilities and the cameras. That used to

[40:17] be an IT expense. Um, so we are taking that over in facilities maintenance.

[40:21] That's the the really one and only major change for this year, next year

[40:25] proposed.

[40:31] And if there are no further questions there, we can move on to storm water.

[40:35] [clears throat]

[40:44] That one appears very straightforward like you apply a percentage and it just

[40:49] goes up each year by a small amount.

[41:00] » Any questions? >> I don't have any additional comments. If

[41:02] you have questions about storm [clears throat] water,

[41:03] » I think we're good. >> Okay.

[41:06] » Thank you. >> Thank you.

[41:08] All right. The next department uh that we would like to take a look at here is

[41:12] parks and recreation. Uh you will notice uh and you have noticed taking a deep

[41:18] dive that it includes one new hire in parks maintenance which would increase

[41:22] the headcount in the department. But I want to be very clear it does not

[41:26] increase the cost because we're able to move one of our naturalists out of the

[41:30] parks operating fund to the non-reverting operating account. that is

[41:34] funded by programming fees which will be sa self self- sustaining going forward.

[41:40] Uh and that is the first step in the parks department's goal of having all of

[41:44] our naturalists uh funded by programming fees eventually. But you know we're

[41:49] we're taking that step by step. I think this is a very good step and it will

[41:53] certainly help uh in the maintenance of our parks particularly this time of year

[41:57] when our seasonals are back at school or back you know at uh other jobs that um

[42:03] they're not able to help us with maintenance anymore at this time of year

[42:07] but the maintenance goes on for another couple of months until the snow flies.

[42:10] So uh with that Jared is in the seat and he can answer any questions that that

[42:15] you might have.

[42:19] I guess I would just say real quickly as a leazison with the parks group, I I

[42:22] want to thank Jared and his staff. Um I think there's there's no department that

[42:26] does more with less that probably than this department and I think our

[42:30] community absolutely loves our parks. They're incredibly important to them,

[42:33] but they're not they're not inexpensive to maintain and to grow. And I

[42:37] [clears throat] think um if you look at 2027, there are some costs in there that

[42:41] are associated with the kind of the growth of the parks in our in our town.

[42:46] Um but otherwise you've done a wonderful job of managing the money and um

[42:50] hopefully we can continue to support all that you aspire to do with our parks.

[42:54] Thanks Jared.

[42:59] » Any questions for Jared?

[43:04] » Thanks. >> Okay. Thank you.

[43:04] » Appreciate it. Oh, is that we good? I guess we're good. Okay. Uh let's move

[43:10] on to inter information technology. Um again there is additional employee in

[43:15] the budget uh and this is the person who will focus the vast vast majority of

[43:20] their time on public safety seeing to the tech needs of our police and fire

[43:23] departments which represent 63% of our employees and more than 60% of the

[43:28] budget and you know I will point out that they do operate 24 hours a day 7

[43:33] days a week and the technical needs that both police and fire have are only

[43:38] growing. Other municipalities have had success in bringing in an employee in IT

[43:43] to focus specifically on those needs. Uh and in addition, it will free up the

[43:48] current IT staff to handle more tickets from other departments and plan for the

[43:52] future needs of the town. Uh the budget reflects uh also increasing costs of

[43:58] hardware and software licenses and supports our goal of maintaining

[44:02] security and increasing the transparency for our constituents. So, all that being

[44:07] said, uh, John Emory is in the seat right now and can answer any questions

[44:10] you might have.

[44:15] » Do we have someone overlooking um consolidating licenses? Do we I know at

[44:21] some point when we're looking at the claims that are coming across, we see

[44:25] subscriptions for um a variety of things. Do we all

[44:30] run that through each other that we are no department is paying for

[44:36] an additional license on its own or >> say licenses what do you like anything

[44:42] » software supports or I don't know I've just seen simple things like um the one

[44:48] that pops in mind is the simplest and it's not necessarily it but like the IBJ

[44:53] I've seen it come through from different aart or departments is there anyone that

[45:00] » so really the only software I guess that comes out of it would be Microsoft

[45:04] office software ware um anything that's um sometimes

[45:12] like secure access something that like every department uses

[45:16] » uh each department has their own PC card they everybody has their own

[45:23] whatever they want to get is up to them and their department head and that's a

[45:27] finance policy it's not really me >> okay

[45:29] » um but >> it just made me think about it when I

[45:32] thought about costs that you have and Um, it just hit me. I wondered if we

[45:37] ever >> check that there isn't some sort of cost

[45:40] savings in um cross departmental subscriptions or um

[45:47] » that's not >> But you don't have anything other than

[45:50] » my stuff is mostly it's well my stuff is all information technology related,

[45:56] infrastructure related and security related.

[45:58] » Okay. the new public safety it um where will

[46:03] that individual work out of well out of town hall do you anticipate

[46:08] » uh probably out of town hall um currently I don't have any more office

[46:12] space uh it's on the list to figure out but uh the biggest hurdle I guess is

[46:20] getting it approved so we're kind of I don't want to put the the cart before

[46:24] the horse so to say so I figured we would get this through and then move

[46:30] forward Can you explain to us the benefit of having this public safety IT

[46:34] individual um for you and your department?

[46:38] » So currently I would say public safety is 50 if not 60 or 75% of all the

[46:44] tickets we get all the on call support uh public safety is 24/7. Currently all

[46:49] those responsibilities kind of fall to me and I've been on call for five years.

[46:54] I'm not opposed to it. It just is what it is. Um, but ideally we can get

[47:00] someone in. And and then the other benefit to having a public safety is

[47:04] currently all of or most of the knowledge I have

[47:09] from working here at this long is in my head and I want to be able to get that

[47:13] out of my head and get that passed around. So it it it's the the age-old if

[47:19] if the IT guy gets hit by a bus, uh, all that knowledge is gone and we have to

[47:24] get that out and we have to spread that around. So we don't have a single point

[47:28] of failure. And it single point of failure is the worst. That's the worst

[47:32] you can be. And currently when it comes to knowledge and help and things like

[47:35] that, I'm the single point of failure. So we share that knowledge. We get that

[47:41] knowledge spread throughout our department more. Uh we also have that

[47:45] help to focus on public safety. Uh then then yes.

[47:50] » Does that sort of explain your >> No, it's very very helpful. Just saying

[47:53] 50 to 60 to 75% of your tickets. Yeah, >> are public safety related. That that

[47:58] helps me tremendously. So, thank you. >> And I would throw in there, if we didn't

[48:03] have John, we would have a major bandwidth issue. And I don't mean it

[48:07] related, I mean personnel related, but he carries a huge load. Um, I think the

[48:12] addition of the safety officer is going to let him recapture some bandwidth

[48:16] because as I sat through these meetings, I just kept thinking about how difficult

[48:22] it is while managing the day-to-day to be proactive and be thinking ahead for

[48:27] future issues. He's doing a great job and and I think that the addition of the

[48:33] uh safety personnel or the IT safety person is going to play out huge uh for

[48:39] the IT department. Would this person work in that command center or just

[48:45] that's when you said where would they work out of? Um would it be someone that

[48:49] would be needed? And do you know what I'm saying? The RV or is that someone

[48:56] who stays here and works with them? >> Person will probably

[49:01] » hopefully work out of my office. We're just we'll just shift things around how

[49:05] we need to. Uh, I would imagine there on between the

[49:11] will be four firehouses and police department. I can't imagine they'll be

[49:15] in the office a whole lot. >> Okay.

[49:18] » Um, >> I was thinking that like is this kind of

[49:20] a remote help or would they end up >> going from spot to spot?

[49:26] » We're pretty resourceful. Yeah, >> we'll figure it out.

[49:28] » I I think it's a I think it's a needed position.

[49:35] Just I guess this is a question towards the mayor. So DPW mentioned the camera

[49:41] systems uh throughout the uh the town that they would take over the

[49:46] maintenance on those. Was that at IT before? Was that IT's programming before

[49:53] or and was that strategic to put it over on DPW to give

[49:58] it more? >> It is. and and you know when we had a

[50:01] change in our IT department a little over a year ago um it looked to me like

[50:06] it was sort of becoming the catchall for everything and I thought that if we

[50:11] allowed just because it plugs in doesn't make it it so we allowed the the other

[50:15] departments to take more responsibility for the things that more directly

[50:18] affected them

[50:22] [clears throat] and I think I think it's been it's I

[50:26] think it's been helpful to John and I think it's made us uh certainly more

[50:29] streamlined in in it and allow them to focus on the things that are really

[50:33] important both internally and outward facing.

[50:38] » Great.

[50:42] » Okay. Uh the next Thank you, John. The next item is uh planning and building.

[50:47] Um the planning and building department has been short-handed since the hiring

[50:52] freeze that we imposed two years ago with the passage of SEA1.

[50:57] um I'll go ahead and take responsibility. It wasn't we that

[51:00] imposed that. I imposed that. Um but at the same time, the volume of work has

[51:04] only been increasing. So I think a deputy director, adding a deputy

[51:08] director will help provide direction for the department as well as help us build

[51:12] a succession plan in a department where several key employees are either at or

[51:16] near retirement age. So this is uh we're trying to be forward thinking here as

[51:21] well as uh give them some help in the short term you know to to impose a

[51:25] little more organization a little more efficiency um which I think is badly

[51:29] needed in planning and building. So with that Mike Dale is in the seat uh ready

[51:34] to take your questions. >> Good morning.

[51:40] [clears throat] >> Questions for Mr. Dale.

[51:46] » All right. Okay, thanks. >> Thank you.

[51:49] » All right, the next uh department is communications. Um you may notice that

[51:53] the communications budget looks a little bit different uh than it did last year.

[51:57] We've added a line for part-time help. Uh but those funds have been moved from

[52:02] contractual services. So, it's really not a budget impact. It's just a a

[52:06] change to the part-time line. Um and it will give Alexa more support um

[52:10] especially as as more projects come in line and and things that are, you know,

[52:15] specific needs. and and she's in the seat right now to answer any any

[52:18] questions you might have.

[52:24] » Maybe you could share real quickly about the contractual like what you're

[52:28] thinking about doing in terms of finding some support.

[52:31] » Absolutely. So, um currently we actually have somebody on staff part-time that

[52:35] can and has assisted me with several projects um which includes photography,

[52:41] videography, and some drone work. and having somebody that's already on staff

[52:46] but not having a part-time line to be able to utilize that at a quick moment's

[52:50] notice um will be a huge benefit to the continued success of the communications

[52:54] department. Um so that's kind of the goal with moving so it's budget neutral.

[52:58] I already have a contract services line, which most of these things do get

[53:02] contracted out, but having someone on staff that's close by that already knows

[53:06] how Zansville operates is super helpful. Um, and just makes us be able to get

[53:11] those items out quicker and more effectively. Um, contract services is my

[53:15] biggest line just because I am a department of one. So, a lot of those

[53:19] things, bigger projects for videos and other photography projects still get

[53:24] outsourced. Um, as well as some graphic design work. So, it does stay budget

[53:28] neutral, but it's going to be a huge help to be able to utilize that option

[53:31] more.

[53:37] » Okay, great. >> Uh for the rest of the departments we

[53:40] have, we'll go through a little more quickly. They're pretty straightforward,

[53:43] but the the next one up is uh human resources. Um and this budget uh is just

[53:49] showing normal increases from year to year. But one thing that HR would like

[53:52] to do is a salary survey. uh that would cost about $30,000 to assess how the

[53:58] town salaries compare with other municipalities and in the marketplace.

[54:02] Uh and Joe and I have talked about this and that's not an expense that I would

[54:06] like to incur in 2027. Uh something we will reconsider in future years, but I

[54:11] don't think it's uh it fits into the budget for 2027. But if uh anybody has

[54:16] any other questions uh for Joe, she is available.

[54:21] » So my question is a pretty simple one. So, you are looking to give everyone a

[54:27] 3.85% increase by giving them just an additional paycheck. Is that correct?

[54:31] And >> well, there are 27 pays because we're

[54:35] paid [cough and clears throat] um bi-weekly, right?

[54:38] » So, there are 27 pays. >> So, it's just going to happen naturally.

[54:41] » It's going to happen naturally and our choice is

[54:44] how do you uh how do you not continue to pay, you know, on that 27th pay? Um and

[54:52] different communities have have decided to do it differently. Um one option

[54:57] would be to take my annual salary and divide it by 27. But then every payday

[55:02] you are shorting me and I don't think that's a legitimate

[55:07] » right >> uh option.

[55:09] » So the the pay increase is associated with just that additional correct pay.

[55:14] » But going into the next year that 3.85% will not actually be factored in. So,

[55:20] I'm just wondering, are we looking at pay increases on top of

[55:23] » Oh, it will. It will. It becomes part of the new base salary. Okay. So, in 2028,

[55:28] any salary increases will be built upon that. And and I will say that in our

[55:31] five-year budget plan, uh we have built in uh a modest pay increase each year

[55:37] that we can adjust up or down based on market conditions at the time.

[55:40] » Thank you. And what you will see on the salary ordinance a couple months from

[55:44] now is an incre an increase of everyone's salary for the 3.85%

[55:51] um to make sure that we're um [clears throat] notifying and and making

[55:56] sure that the salary number is correct for state board of accounts.

[56:00] » That's exactly why I was asking. I didn't want us to have to then go back

[56:03] to go >> correct.

[56:05] And Joe, just for the sake of the council, can you explain the PEF and how

[56:10] it is scheduled to bump each of the next couple years? I know

[56:14] » well there's a lot of confusion when because lots of people say PEF. Um PEF

[56:20] is civilian. >> So I I have uh PEF, you know, this whole

[56:26] group over here in in uh uniform, they have fund 77, which is completely

[56:31] different fund. um the um fund 77 um committee or whoever the people are

[56:41] um they tell me they tell us there's a schedule um for the increases for the

[56:48] employer portion and we have no choice. We we are committed to that and so those

[56:54] are the increases that take place um for every you know every employee in public

[57:00] safety >> right but then we we do bump the PEF

[57:05] just to keep things kind of more in line right and aren't there if I recall

[57:09] correctly there's some pretty chunky bumps to the 77 that are already known

[57:16] » sure um and I don't have it's one or one or two% % over the [clears throat] next

[57:23] couple of years is that have already been notified. Um I don't have the same

[57:28] for civilian but civilian we're matching um or we are doing the employer or

[57:34] employee portion too which is 3% it's 6% for public safety.

[57:40] » The 77 is a huge chunk of the budget of which we have zero control over other

[57:46] than hiring those firefighters, right? Everyone pays into the 77. It's a huge

[57:51] chunk of our budget. So the the jumps over the next two to three years are

[57:54] something that we have no control over. Not that I'm, you know, it's a

[57:59] contribution. And I've I've I've learned this too. It doesn't actually mean that

[58:02] the the public safety personnel are not they're actually not getting more money

[58:06] out of this. We're just donating they're just donating more money into the pot,

[58:10] which is unfortunate, but it does make up a huge portion of um of the budget is

[58:17] paying into the 77. And that's in the projections going forward. That was my

[58:22] point is just to let you guys know that all those bumps are accounted for,

[58:26] » right? >> Yes.

[58:27] » And will those people vest in it 20 years?

[58:31] » There's different schedules for whether you're talking about civilian or public

[58:35] safety. And >> minimum [clears throat] is 20 years. Um

[58:39] and then there are um if you stay longer, you get a more larger percentage

[58:44] of your of the actual certified salary. I have that correct.

[58:50] » And when someone does invest in it, it just rolls

[58:54] » back into the fund. >> Sure.

[58:57] » It it is it is the state fund, right? >> And just like lots of retirements,

[59:02] you're paying into it, you're paying into it, and you may or may not

[59:05] » reap the benefits of it >> as as an individual.

[59:12] Joe, I just want to say [clears throat] thank you for uh all your hard work on

[59:17] protecting that 3.85%. I think it's important. I know the nuance and how it

[59:21] gets paid out. Uh which I appreciate also that people don't have less in

[59:25] their kind of monthly budget. So, I think that's a smart way to do it. But

[59:28] also, um, not we haven't talked a whole lot about it, but, uh, in these dollars,

[59:33] it's we're seeing a flat, um, maintenance of our health insurance

[59:38] costs, which most >> we spent nine months, um, between last

[59:43] year and this year um, crafting a brand new plan that, uh, we hope will um,

[59:51] result in quite a bit of savings. though to kind of hedge our bets a little bit.

[59:55] We maintained a flat um expense for both the staff and the town in the budget.

[1:00:01] » Yeah, I think that's important. I appreciated hearing about that and

[1:00:03] really that it's protecting the same quality that people need and expect. So

[1:00:09] just uh great job on overall. >> Thank you. Also, just for the sake of

[1:00:14] the council, will you explain the because I think it's a really good thing

[1:00:17] that you guys have done. Um, how the benefits are being taken out because

[1:00:22] it's to the employees advantage is the way that you guys

[1:00:24] » are you referring to the 27 pays? >> So, in 2027, there will be 2020 there

[1:00:30] will be 27 pays. In January um of 27, we will not uh deduct benefit expense,

[1:00:38] employee benefit expense. So for those for different employees it's going to be

[1:00:42] a different impact whether it's individual or family but it's one less

[1:00:47] you know deduction in January. So for many it will feel a little better.

[1:00:57] » Any other questions for Joe? >> Okay. The next department we have is

[1:01:02] finance. Um and you notice in here there's there's money in the capital

[1:01:08] improvement fund. the CCI fund to continue the digitization project that

[1:01:13] we have underway. We don't want to let that fall off. Uh as well as moving the

[1:01:17] financial system to the cloud, which will certainly make it more secure, much

[1:01:22] more efficient. Uh and this is something that um you know, I I frankly think is a

[1:01:27] little bit overdue, but it's going to protect us against, you know, a tornado

[1:01:30] coming through and taking out our servers or something like that. Uh the

[1:01:34] information will be in a much better place once it's in the cloud. So, that's

[1:01:37] that's the one uh difference in finance this year, and Cindy is there to answer

[1:01:42] any further questions you might have.

[1:01:49] » I mean, it looks like Cindy's got [clears throat] a handful of them here.

[1:01:52] If you just maybe just rattle through them, go through them. Okay. Um, she

[1:01:56] also has Okay. The town court um increased the budget about $3,900 this

[1:02:02] year to hire a Spanish- speaking interpreter that the judge has asked

[1:02:05] for. Uh actually the judge has asked for this the past couple years. So we uh you

[1:02:09] know kind of felt that the persistence uh with which she's been asking uh means

[1:02:14] something. So we're going to put that in the budget for this year. Uh there is no

[1:02:17] increase in salary for the judge. That's $6,100. The prosecutor makes $2,700 a

[1:02:23] year and the court administrator is a part-time employee uh in the finance

[1:02:27] department. and Cindy will also speak to the public assistance administration,

[1:02:31] mayor, council, and non-dep departmental uh budgets as well. So, um I can tick

[1:02:38] through them in order here or you know, you can do it however you want. You can

[1:02:42] ask Cindy any question. She's she's there and ready to answer.

[1:02:51] » Maybe just go through them, John, and then maybe at the end if we have

[1:02:54] questions. >> Okay. Well, there's we'll start with

[1:02:56] finance. Um, most of the money in here is

[1:02:59] » salaries, right? And and that capital outlay that I did mention for the

[1:03:04] digitization project. >> Any questions about finance?

[1:03:09] » Okay. Town court. >> The only question I have about town

[1:03:13] court is you mentioned uh the judge and the prosecutor have the same salary. Is

[1:03:17] there any particular reason why we don't tie that to cost of living like we do?

[1:03:23] The judge makes a little bit more than than the prosecutor, but but yes, the

[1:03:26] the salaries have not changed, >> but it doesn't go up, right? I mean,

[1:03:30] » right. The salaries have not changed uh in the past several years, or at least

[1:03:34] as long as I've been doing this, their salaries haven't changed.

[1:03:40] » That's a good question. We hadn't really thought of that. Do they get paid uh

[1:03:44] bi-weekly like everybody else or they get paid monthly?

[1:03:46] » Monthly. >> They get paid monthly.

[1:03:54] Yeah, I mean they I I know it's uh obviously it's an elected position and

[1:03:59] an appointed position. I know it's a lot of work. I just wonder even though it's

[1:04:03] seems like a pretty minimal amount. I just wonder if we don't

[1:04:07] seems like it wouldn't hurt to tie that to the same cost of living increases

[1:04:10] that we get or anybody else gets. >> Right. Okay. And I was going to Tim, I

[1:04:14] don't remember what um came up because we were trying to decide whether or not

[1:04:19] their pay got compensated by the state. It does not. Okay. Because we at the

[1:04:22] time we weren't sure if they got compensated from the state as well, but

[1:04:26] I I guess he's saying no, they don't. So, um

[1:04:30] » yeah, I mean I I guess um if it's possible, I'd like to see maybe that

[1:04:34] tied to an increase. Um and then, you know, Joe, I know you you mentioned a

[1:04:39] salary study earlier. I think AIM just did one in 25 that'll roll out here at

[1:04:45] the end of 26. Maybe we can >> you have that. So, does that also have

[1:04:49] judge and prosecutor salaries too or No, >> I'm pretty sure it does.

[1:04:54] » I mean, it it might be good just to take a look at that again. It's a lot of work

[1:04:57] and I know we're with all the additional, you know, court work that's

[1:05:01] being done with the other municipalities and us absorbing that, it might make

[1:05:04] sense to to revisit that at some point. >> Yep.

[1:05:09] And in addition, starting from the base where where we are right now, it

[1:05:12] wouldn't be a significant budget impact. So certainly something that I'd be happy

[1:05:17] to consider. Um the next line is public assistance

[1:05:21] and uh as the townships dissolved, uh we became the township trustees. Uh and

[1:05:28] Cindy actually is the township trustee, right? For

[1:05:30] » Yes. >> Union and for Perry

[1:05:33] » and Eagle. >> And Eagle.

[1:05:36] » Yeah. the uh this budget is is pretty much flat um from uh the current year.

[1:05:42] Uh we've been able to stay within our current budget right now. We did

[1:05:46] increase it significantly last year or for 2026. So, um right now we're doing

[1:05:54] fine with the budget that we have. So, I don't foresee any need to uh increase

[1:05:58] it. >> Sandy, you're not seeing additional

[1:06:02] requests or folks coming forward? Not not really. I mean, it's it's been

[1:06:08] pretty steady, but it's also been um pretty level as far as whether they're

[1:06:12] asking for shelter, utility, etc. So, we're we're well within our budget right

[1:06:17] now. >> Yeah. [clears throat]

[1:06:22] » Okay. The next item is administration. Um and you know, there you see the

[1:06:27] numbers. I don't have any additional comments on this. Cindy, do you?

[1:06:30] » No. Okay. >> Any questions?

[1:06:36] Okay. Uh the mayor's budget uh which basically the same from year to year. Uh

[1:06:43] no increases for other services and charges and uh you know then you just

[1:06:48] have the personnel cost. That is is pretty straightforward too.

[1:06:54] The council budget. Any questions about the council budget?

[1:06:59] Yeah, I think the um we we'll likely see and we didn't get this to you guys uh

[1:07:04] Friday because we were going through a lot of this on Friday, but with um

[1:07:08] changes to support to the council, um we'll likely see some of those expenses

[1:07:15] being absorbed by uh Barnes and Thornberg and then obviously others with

[1:07:20] um someone with within Cindy's department and staff. So, we're still

[1:07:24] trying to work that out and we'll have an engagement letter from Barnes that

[1:07:26] will detail that soon and then we'll get that to you guys. But just for the

[1:07:31] public and for the council to know though, there likely will be a change in

[1:07:34] this bottom line number of 306 because we'll be um leveraging Barnes to help

[1:07:41] with a lot of our meeting prep. So, >> okay,

[1:07:44] we'll look forward to that discussion. And then the the final budget we have is

[1:07:48] the non-EP departmental. And this is kind of a a catchall for expenses that

[1:07:52] affect every department like insurance premiums, uh bank fees, ditch fees,

[1:07:57] bonding for the employees who are bonded. Uh spending will be up about 2%

[1:08:02] and that's mostly due to higher property and casualty insurance rates. So if

[1:08:07] there's any questions about that, u Cindy is ready to answer them.

[1:08:14] So, >> uh, within this budget is the food and

[1:08:17] beverage fund and and I don't know if you want to talk about the food and

[1:08:20] beverage fund. Uh, currently we have about $1.4 million in the bank. Uh, and

[1:08:26] the monthly gain that we've been getting has been increasing a bit recently due

[1:08:31] to some new restaurants coming online and and some new activity in that area.

[1:08:35] So, we're now averaging about $70,000 a month. And, as you know, that can only

[1:08:40] be used for economic development purposes. So we're proposing in 2027

[1:08:45] spending about 470,000 that would be 75,000 for the Booney DC,

[1:08:50] 30,000 for the Indie Chamber, 115,000 which is the payment on the town hall

[1:08:56] mortgage that comes from food and beverage. Uh 100,000 for the new CBP

[1:09:01] office which will be a one-time expense going forward. That would likely be

[1:09:04] about 50,000 a year. uh a h 100,000 for the main street momentum business

[1:09:09] support project and then 50,000 for zark the architectural review committee um so

[1:09:16] that is that is what we have in mind and that's what we'd like to appropriate

[1:09:19] from the food and beverage fund and uh you know if additional needs or desires

[1:09:24] uh emerge throughout the year we would come back for an additional

[1:09:26] appropriation to the council >> mayor what what's the what's the update

[1:09:30] on the CBP because a 100,000 are we not doing the employee um

[1:09:36] » that that includes uh helping to fund for that employee. So, uh the CBP office

[1:09:41] is currently being built out at the airport uh as part of a larger project

[1:09:45] for Becks. They're they're building out a new hanger and the CBP office as part

[1:09:48] of that building. Uh we are working in partnership with Hamilton County, Boone

[1:09:53] County, Westfield, Lebanon, and Carmel to fund operations there. Uh so the

[1:10:00] initial payment would be our share of the um the construction buildout and and

[1:10:05] equipping that office appropriately and then ongoing for probably the next two

[1:10:10] or three years it would be to help pay for one of the employees there. The the

[1:10:14] plan right now is to have two employees there. Uh and in addition to doing the

[1:10:18] customs duties, they'll be able to help with um you know the the

[1:10:22] » global entry. >> Global entry. Right.

[1:10:24] » Right. I was going to say clear pass, but global entry, I think, is the is the

[1:10:28] exact term. So, um, you know, high hopes. It's moving forward and, um, as

[1:10:33] far [clears throat] as I know, they're on track to get that going in the first

[1:10:36] quarter of 2027. >> Thank you.

[1:10:41] » Can you say those that list of breakdown of expenses one more time? I wrote some

[1:10:45] of them down and I wanted to >> Sure. uh 75 75,000 for Booney DC, 30,000

[1:10:52] for the Indie Chamber, 115,000 for the town hall payment,

[1:10:58] 100,000 for the CBP office, 100,000 for the Main Street Momentum Business

[1:11:03] Support Project, and then 50,000 for Zark.

[1:11:15] Total of 470,000.

[1:11:21] which gives us the opportunity to, you know, leave some in that account for

[1:11:25] things to come up. [clears throat]

[1:11:31] So, [snorts] um,

[1:11:34] the Zark 50,000 um, every year I feel like the Zark I I I get comments from

[1:11:41] the people on Zark about 50,000 not being enough or they they can't do

[1:11:45] anything with that money. is is 50,000 just kind of I think it's been that way

[1:11:49] for a few years. Correct. >> It has been that way for a few years. Uh

[1:11:52] last this past year they haven't used it or they haven't used it so far.

[1:11:55] » Okay. >> In [clears throat] 2026, but it doesn't

[1:11:58] build up. You know, it is an appropriation that's available to them

[1:12:01] to use as they see fit. If they need more than 50,000, they can come back to

[1:12:05] the council and ask for an additional appropriation. I I don't know that

[1:12:08] that's ever happened >> in the history of Zark.

[1:12:10] » Okay. >> They don't fund things at 100%. They

[1:12:13] they fund things at >> right

[1:12:15] » a certain percent chunks. >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:12:22] [clears throat] >> So in closing here, you know, I believe

[1:12:24] that this budget is presented protects the level of service everyone in

[1:12:28] Zensville expects uh in the SEA1 world. Uh and again, it will get us back to

[1:12:34] balance by 2030. Um, so just as a timeline here, any concerns you have,

[1:12:40] uh, please share them with us by September 4th, so we can be ready to

[1:12:44] post the budget to gateway, September 11th. That that's our deadline to do

[1:12:48] that. The first reading of the budget and public hearing will occur at the

[1:12:51] regular town council meeting on September 21st,

[1:12:55] and the second reading uh will be on October 5th, and hopefully we would have

[1:13:00] final passage at that time.

[1:13:05] Uh, thank you, mayor. So, you want uh any feedback from council by um the

[1:13:11] fourth, >> please. That would be very helpful.

[1:13:15] » Yeah, I appreciate that. I think the uh um appreciate your work and the work

[1:13:20] from the um you know, staff and obviously council as well. And just you

[1:13:24] know, we've had couple of runs at this. I know um you guys sent out the the

[1:13:30] 5-year plan and these budgets on the 12th and to everybody on the council. We

[1:13:34] all got it, reviewed it then again on the 21st with final changes. So, um I

[1:13:40] don't know if there's been feedback from there, but again, council, just as the

[1:13:43] mayor indicated, if there's any changes you'd like to have, uh we need to have

[1:13:47] those submitted by 94 so we can have everything updated again by 911 and then

[1:13:52] we'll hear that in the mid o or midepptember and 1 October meeting. So,

[1:13:57] Heather, is there any anything you'd like to add to that or any changes or N?

[1:14:04] » All right. >> President Punky, can I ask a question to

[1:14:06] the mayor? Mayor, uh, we talked about the food and beverage fund, uh, and all

[1:14:11] these. I know these aren't part of the budget, but they're they're part I'm

[1:14:15] glad that councelor Samson asked you to repeat them. Um, is you said this kind

[1:14:21] of has to go towards economic development. Um, and I I I guess I'm

[1:14:25] just got a disconnect in my head. It says town hall, the town hall payment of

[1:14:29] 115,000. Can you help me understand the

[1:14:33] connection there between economic development and

[1:14:39] uh how we're using that for those funds for that payment.

[1:14:44] » Yeah. [clears throat] >> And what your justification is on that.

[1:14:46] » I'm going to let Cindy answer that because

[1:14:48] » she was decided. Yeah. that was decided when uh we took the bond or actual lease

[1:14:54] out to build town hall. Uh so we we actually get the payment dollars from

[1:15:01] about four different sources. And so at the time it was decided that um uh the

[1:15:09] building of the town hall fell within that category. And so um

[1:15:16] it was it was decided to use food and beverage for a portion of the town hall

[1:15:23] payment. >> And I think the the argument would be

[1:15:25] that building the town hall consolidated public services made public services

[1:15:30] more efficient and that in itself is an economic development tool. Having a town

[1:15:35] council having a town hall that is more responsive and more efficient than than

[1:15:40] what we had before.

[1:15:43] You could also make the argument pretty easily that all of the, you know, fire

[1:15:48] department uh meetings, you know, if you drive out any any given, you know, week,

[1:15:54] there's a hundred police cars or fire, you know, vehicles from other

[1:15:58] municipalities that come in here for meetings and then they go out into the

[1:16:02] town, have lunch or lunch is brought in. I mean, you know, there's certainly

[1:16:05] economic value to having a centralized location for for public meetings like

[1:16:10] that. just just to me it seems like a payment

[1:16:14] a payment [clears throat] structure for a a facility like like the town hall

[1:16:18] should be coming from another uh another fund as opposed to one that's funded by

[1:16:24] the the local businesses or that that collect the food and beverage tax and I

[1:16:29] don't know as I look at the other boon DC and the chamber and the CVP I can see

[1:16:34] that Main Street of course and then Zark that goes straight back into the

[1:16:39] community and I understand the use of the town hall. Um, but I just

[1:16:44] I struggled with that 115,000, but I'll let that go. I just wanted to kind of

[1:16:48] understand and interpret your and uh how long ago did that occur that

[1:16:54] » when we did the lease, which would have been

[1:16:56] » so when it was first >> 17

[1:16:59] » 17 something like that

[1:17:03] » and that will just go on into until the payments paid off. Is that

[1:17:07] » Yeah, I believe it's 2037 is when the town halls paid off.

[1:17:15] » Just wanted to have a little mini conversation about that. Thank you.

[1:17:20] » You said there are four sources that are paying into that though. What are the

[1:17:24] » the uh CCD fund, Oak Street, TIFF, food and beverage, and then uh the general

[1:17:30] fund through lit dollars. And initially for the first five years,

[1:17:35] the county actually contributed towards the town hall as well, but that has

[1:17:40] since ended.

[1:17:47] [clears throat] >> I would just thank the department heads.

[1:17:49] This is just another example of really hard good work and appreciate being a

[1:17:54] part of it. Been through a lot of these processes over the last seven years and

[1:17:58] they get better every year. So appreciate everybody's hard work and

[1:18:02] diligence.

[1:18:07] » Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks, John.

[1:18:10] I don't know that we necessarily need like an official uh adjournment here, so

[1:18:14] you guys can just kill the feed in the back whenever you're ready.

[1:18:21] » Thank you. >> Thanks, everybody.

8/31/2026 Zionsville Budget Workshop

Transcript