[0:00] Okay, we're going to call this city commission study session part one of the

[0:04] day to uh order. All please rise for the pledge of allegiance.

[0:10] » I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[0:16] republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[0:22] justice for all. And we begin this meeting as we do with

[0:26] our acknowledgement that the land on which we gather is the territory of the

[0:29] Ottawa and Chipua peoples who have stewarded this land through the

[0:32] generations. Thank you for your strength and resilience in protecting this land

[0:35] and inspiring us to uphold our responsibilities to do the same. And as

[0:39] we mentioned, this is our first study session today. There will be a joint

[0:42] session with the planning commission this evening at our usual 7 o'clock

[0:45] time. This is a time for us just to go over our strategic plan with David from

[0:49] Future IQ. Uh thank you for coming back again. We always look forward to seeing

[0:53] you and I will hand it over to Benjamin to get the conversation started then.

[0:56] » Great. Thank you, Mayor Sham. I just wanted to acknowledge that Mayor Prom

[0:59] Wilson indicated he's not able to attend today's meetings. I want to thank the

[1:03] city staff leadership team for being here. Uh I had shared in the cover memo

[1:07] that the objectives and key results ultimately uh which will be adopted by

[1:11] the next city commission uh will guide department level work plans and my

[1:16] co-creation with each department director of their evaluations and those

[1:20] department level work plans. Um really the goal the aim for today is for the

[1:26] commission to have a discussion. Uh David's not going to do the dots on

[1:30] paper sort of thing. He's going to lead us through this conversation and staff's

[1:34] going to work to distill what we hear from you and then we'll bring that back

[1:38] uh to you, the language back uh as we work to form these draft. OKAR so

[1:42] there's clarity along the way and I want to thank everybody from the public as

[1:46] well as the candidates for city commissioner are here too. And I'm

[1:49] looking forward to listening a whole lot. Thank you. Y

[1:51] » and since we don't have a formal um kind of mic with the clerk over there, she

[1:57] has it for her time, but I just wanted to remind people to move the mic around

[2:00] as necessary. This is being recorded. This isn't just for amplification. So,

[2:04] do try to move your mics around if you're a bit further away from one so

[2:07] that your answers will be on on record. And with that, I will hand it over to

[2:12] David who is miked. >> Okay. Well, thank you, Mayor, Council,

[2:15] Commissioners. How are you? Glad to be back. Um I actually think this is a

[2:19] great point in this conversation, Benjamin. So to sort of echo your

[2:22] comments, I think this is a a really important opportunity to take the work

[2:26] of the strategic planning which really where we ended with the dashboard was s

[2:31] you know some recognition that there was a set of priorities that the community

[2:34] was talking about that weren't really well reflected in the city's operations

[2:38] at the at the current stage. So this is I think the start of a number of

[2:42] conversations where we're going to explore what would better alignment look

[2:46] like? what are the elements that you think are are missing or need to be kind

[2:51] of enhanced? Um I do I do want to just put in a sort of a a point here however

[2:56] that we're talking about you know a whole city budget right now a

[3:00] fair bit of the city budget I don't know what the exact figure but I guess it

[3:03] would be 60 or 70% of a city budget it's going to be basically obligation and

[3:07] it's going to be things that you're required to provide um the strategic

[3:12] planning work and the visioning work was really I think looking at what you might

[3:17] call more the discretionary component right so we didn't really get into the

[3:21] challenging the the the sort of basic obligation work. So it's not the entire

[3:26] kind of component we're looking at. I think that's always important to bear in

[3:28] mind that we're going to be talking about some alignment, but we're not

[3:32] talking about everything that the city's, you know, required to deliver

[3:35] and so on. I think that's part of what we'll have to unpack as we go through

[3:38] this conversation. Um what I have um I've got some data here I want to share

[3:43] with you the results from the survey that I think everybody at the table here

[3:47] did take as well as a number of the candidates. Um the point of that survey

[3:52] was really to get your first reaction about how well aligned or not we are. Um

[3:58] and I I want to walk through today each pillar. Um and I really am going to ask

[4:04] as commissioners that you like a conversation. You know what would it

[4:08] look like if it was better? What do we need to be doing differently to align

[4:11] better? So it's very much an exploration today. It's not a a decision making. is

[4:16] not a kind of eliminating, but it's trying to understand what in your mind

[4:21] as commissioners, if we've got a bit of a gap between what we think we're

[4:25] currently doing and what we think we should be doing, what does that look

[4:28] like? How do we close that gap? Um, to show show you some of the data,

[4:32] obviously we're working with these uh six strategic pillars that were

[4:35] developed through the strategic planning process.

[4:39] Um, this was data from the strategic planning process. So this was just

[4:44] looking at we were ranking the pillars or we're asking the community to rank

[4:47] the pillars in terms of their positive impact and they all came up as um as

[4:52] important that scale was a one to one to five scale um the data from the survey

[4:57] and I want to present this really as preliminary data and for commissioners

[5:01] this is in the material I did in the output it's in front of you you can use

[5:04] that as a worksheet if you want um this was asking the question about how well

[5:09] aligned um are the existing budget and programs of the city with those pillars,

[5:16] right? Um, and one being not at all or or sorry, very poorly aligned on the

[5:21] left hand side and 10 being very well aligned on the right hand side. Um, I

[5:25] don't know what your take on that is, but to me it looks like at best where on

[5:29] a few of them we're kind of maybe in the middle, right? And as we actually go

[5:33] through the actions, you'll see it degrade might not be the right word, but

[5:37] there there's less alignment as we go through. So it was a little bit of a um

[5:42] an epiphany for me actually when I was looking at this data um because as we go

[5:47] into it you'll see that there are some areas where there's quite significant

[5:50] misalignment from uh what the budget and programs are to what you think the city

[5:56] should be doing in reflecting the community aspirations and it it did give

[6:00] me an insight into to how difficult it must be to govern as commissioners in

[6:05] that environment where I think there's and I've watched a number through your

[6:10] meetings and I've often had the sense that there's oh it doesn't feel quite

[6:13] right we can't quite put our finger on doesn't feel quite right and I think

[6:17] what this data is going to reflect is that sort of sense of a tension between

[6:21] you know what you're being presented with as commissioners from you know the

[6:24] budgets and programs and what you you know reflect in the community see as uh

[6:29] as the priorities need to be >> and the fact that we haven't even begun

[6:32] to build a budget with ease in mind right like this is brand new so it's not

[6:36] surprising that there's >> not a tremendous amount

[6:39] I think >> yeah and it's not meant to be at all

[6:42] critical. I mean I think it's like I mean you're a city obviously that's

[6:45] going through evolution right and you're dealing with challenges today and the

[6:50] shifting social values and all those things that are going on and so any city

[6:54] is going to be continually trying to adapt and evolve as you go forward and

[6:58] that's point of the strategic planning process was to let's recast our net for

[7:02] the next sort of five or 10 years. Um so not surprisingly there's some

[7:06] misalignment. I think what I was speaking to Benjamin is I think that

[7:09] there's some components there. There's significant misalignment, right? And I

[7:13] think what we're going to have to, you know, talk about at the table here is

[7:16] well, what does that look like? How do we what do we need to be tweaking here

[7:19] to change that? So that's at the level of the pillars, right? I really wanted

[7:23] to spend the time on each one. So the first pillar was the proactively

[7:27] managing urban design. Obviously, this was a really interesting and important

[7:31] pillar in the planning process. um the and I'm going to show you data um at

[7:37] each one of these. So this was from the dashboard which was the last piece that

[7:41] I presented to you. So under this pillar we had these four uh action areas design

[7:47] future the corridors uh building guidelines people centric street design

[7:52] um intentionally design more community connection points. This was the sort of

[7:57] overall priority that was given by the community in the prioritization survey.

[8:01] the scale being the darker the color the higher the priority. Um we then did a

[8:06] sort of a subject very subjective I'll say but an initial subjective kind of

[8:11] view of what's the city kind of doing how sort of where does it fit in terms

[8:15] of progress against these action areas. So the darker the color the more the

[8:20] substantial the the progress. Um and obviously what started to jump out is we

[8:24] saw some kind of both alignment of you know priorities and and progress but

[8:28] also some mismatches. Um what I did in this survey and I asked you as well as

[8:34] the candidates to respond to um was how well aligned do we think those uh at the

[8:40] level of those actions how well aligned is the budget and programs to fulfill on

[8:44] those um action areas um and again one being very poorly aligned um and 10

[8:51] being very well aligned. So you can see there the some be able to get off the

[8:56] mark, right? And you'll see that as we go through actually there'll be often

[8:59] there'll be one action that will be you know perhaps quite low in a in a pillar.

[9:04] Um so I wanted to just this is about but this is the data I'm going to show you

[9:08] for each of the the pillars. Um I think I'd love to just kick it around the

[9:13] table. Right. So obviously proactively proactively manage urban design was seen

[9:20] in the strategic planning as a really important focus area. I think that was a

[9:24] lot about the the character and the you know how do you just not become blah

[9:29] anywhere and how do you reser preserve that sort of authenticity of your

[9:34] community. Um but by your own judgment 5.5 sort of the middle point on this um

[9:40] we're below below the center and obviously leaning towards the polio

[9:45] line. Um I would love to just perhaps and I'd like to do this for each one and

[9:49] we go around the table right and hear from each of the commissioners. What do

[9:53] you think we need to be working on that would make us better aligned? Right?

[9:58] What what do you think we need to be thinking about to close that gap? And as

[10:02] you said, Benjamin, we're just going to listen, right? And we'll obviously going

[10:05] to record this and transcribe it. We will then take your sort of input and

[10:10] obviously, you know, I think the next step is we'll be coming back with, well,

[10:13] here's a set of what budgets and programs could look like. Does this

[10:16] better reflect things, right? But we really just want to get your pulse,

[10:20] right? And maybe Jackie, we could if we could start with you and I would just

[10:24] love to go around the table and just give each of you a chance to say well

[10:28] what what do we need to be thinking about at the level of budget and

[10:32] programs to get to get stronger alignment with what are those priorities

[10:37] that come up and Jackie will go with you and then Tim will come will bring around

[10:40] the table. So Jackie would you like to take us away? Um well I think that uh

[10:45] obviously focusing on the lowest rated which is localized building design

[10:50] guidelines. Um there are some conversations in the planning commission

[10:54] that have started around that. Um although at at this point um they kind

[11:01] of grew out of a discussion about exterior cladding materials and what was

[11:07] appropriate and how to interpret what was in our zoing code. So um if that is

[11:13] a starting point you know the question is how how far can we take that? Can we

[11:20] um you know within the limitations of the city charter which apparently uh

[11:28] minimizes our opportunity to use design guidelines for one and two family

[11:35] dwellings. But other structures within the city

[11:39] seem to me that they um we could find a way to um

[11:46] develop some guidelines that would achieve that preservation of character

[11:51] and authenticity that that was valued in the prior research.

[11:56] » Yeah. >> Okay.

[12:00] Tim,

[12:04] » uh, I'll try to make two quick comments then. I guess I'll I'll start with the

[12:08] not optimistic, then go to the optimistic one. So, the first uh, gets

[12:12] to design a future key corridors. Um, planning commission had a corridor

[12:18] master plan 11 years ago, plus or minus, which was great. Uh but to me it kind of

[12:24] shows that we can say as a community this is what we want but then largely

[12:30] it's private land and when somebody just keeps it in the family um because they

[12:37] want their grandchildren to have the opportunity to develop that empty

[12:39] parking lot or that empty lot someday um it can be frustrating for the community.

[12:45] So, I'm thinking of 8 Street and the big corner there. Um, and I just recently

[12:50] heard that, yeah, the the owner, he wants to be the, you know, for his kids

[12:55] sort of thing. And it's been decades. So, that can be frustrating for the

[12:59] community because we don't have a lever to push on. Like the the best thing is

[13:03] probably not from the city, but from the community to try to use, you know, soft

[13:07] influence uh much like uh the land conservancy does. they build

[13:11] relationships over decades uh to try to move things forward and maybe eventually

[13:17] it happens. Um but that's not a very satisfying answer to say oh maybe in a

[13:23] decade we can get an empty lot to be not an empty lot. Um so that's the not so

[13:28] optimistic because I'm not sure what the answer is to encourage private land

[13:32] owners to do something with their land. Um the numbers three and four to me tie

[13:38] together in my mind at least with the uh complete streets policy that'll be

[13:43] coming forward soon. Um and I'm very encouraged by that. You know,

[13:48] Commissioner Stanley and the mayor worked on an an earlier draft of that uh

[13:54] you know, a few years ago. Um but we got sidelined for various reasons as a city.

[14:00] Uh, and then more recently, uh, Commissioner Sha, Mayor Prom, and myself

[14:06] have been working on it with city staff, uh, and made some real good progress.

[14:10] And I think even though it doesn't address three and four in those words

[14:15] specifically, I think it's very much tied to that because it's about, you

[14:18] know, all people being able to get wherever it is they want to go and

[14:21] feeling comfortable. So, it again, in my mind, ties to three and four pretty

[14:26] well. So, I'm optimistic for those. Yeah, it's a it's a really good point

[14:30] because there is like the next step on this is to think about what tools do we

[14:34] have, right? And you know what capacity or limitations that we may confront as

[14:38] we go down this path. So, thank you. >> Um I agree with uh Commissioner Werner

[14:45] about three and four. I think that the complete streets policy and the advisory

[14:50] board, the future advisory board, we're really moving forward on that and I hope

[14:54] the 1% uh budget allocation is still valid.

[15:00] Please um

[15:04] going up to number one, that's where I see an issue because they we're working

[15:09] off a 2014 corridors master plan. That's, you know, 11 years ago, like

[15:15] Commissioner Warner said. And, you know, in particular, I'm uh worried about

[15:20] Seventh Street. You know, what kind of corridor is that? Because that's those

[15:24] are the two quarters that that were specifically called out in this staff

[15:29] generated. Uh how are we doing dashboard summary thing? Um seventh street and

[15:35] fourth street. 14th Street. So, uh you know, what kind of corridor is that? Do

[15:42] we need corridors that are more car centric and other corridors that are

[15:45] more bike and pedestrian centric? Is Cass a corridor to get north and south?

[15:50] Is is Union a corridor to get north and south? I I think we need to dig to dig

[15:55] deeper into this. We need a better We need a more current visioning of how we

[16:00] want to get around. People weren't riding bikes as much as 11 years ago as

[16:04] they are now. Every year it's exponentially taking off and which is a

[16:08] great thing, but we need safe ways to get around town. Um, let's see. And then

[16:13] for the number two, uh, I'm encouraged by the discussion

[16:18] going on planning commission right now about materials and sticking to our guns

[16:23] as far as what kind of materials we're going to use here in Traverse City. I'd

[16:27] also really like to look at pre-approved ADA plans. Um, I think that would be

[16:32] something that we may be able to just

[16:38] it may not cost much of anything at all to have them made or to borrow them from

[16:43] somewhere and then we approve them and then they are available for for our

[16:47] residents. >> ADU ADU a

[16:51] » Yeah, ADU, not ADA. Yeah, sorry. thinking. Yeah,

[16:58] » I'm seeing one and four as things that we actually can do a little more since

[17:03] that is uh directly dealing with planning for the future. Not that all of

[17:08] four items don't involve some planning work. Uh but that is inherent to the

[17:15] goal of those two objectives is to develop a plan like for number one in

[17:22] the master plan it identified several key corridors and the planning

[17:26] commission has three of those on their goals for this coming year. They've

[17:30] already dealt with uh part of the Union Street corridor but 14th Street and West

[17:36] Front Street are identified in there. So I'd say that that's aligned with what

[17:41] steps are already being taken. Uh two and three, well three to a lesser extent

[17:47] because there are things we can change, but we're not going to be making in the

[17:53] short term uh radical changes to what our streets look like, our street

[17:58] network. we can change the alignment of uh parking or the flow of traffic but as

[18:03] we've seen with state street that can be a process that we learn from and it

[18:09] might require trials here and there and number two although it is something that

[18:15] according to this data uh there's dis more disalignment between where we are

[18:22] and where people think we should be with our budget and programs

[18:28] A lot of that isn't something that we can directly control to the same extent.

[18:33] Yes, we can put out guidelines, but that will only affect what new construction

[18:38] happens. And somebody could be very upset about

[18:43] um their neighbor uh doing a renovation for their house that they put on all

[18:49] vinyl siding over a brick house and they put on a metal roof and it clashes with

[18:54] the neighborhood. But if nothing that they do required a building permit, then

[18:58] at no point would that actually touch the city permitting and planning zoning

[19:02] process. >> Okay, thank you.

[19:06] » Um, so lots of good points already. It's nice coming towards the end. Um, so the

[19:10] one couple things the I appreciated Jackie's statement basically because I

[19:14] think that's about where I'm at of the uh building design opportunities.

[19:18] There's things we can work within. It's starting from a much lower place so

[19:22] it'll take a lot longer to get there. Um, but the corridors one is one that

[19:27] really stuck out to me because of really being part of the eighth street

[19:31] redesign, the portion that did get done a few years ago and knowing how many

[19:35] millions of dollars that took. And I think Commissioner Warner makes an

[19:38] excellent point. We can't make private property develop, but that is the point

[19:42] of economic development in corridors is to try and spur that on to not have

[19:47] people sit on that property. But the reality that is that costs a lot of

[19:51] money. And so that's where we get into this budget prioritization is we have a

[19:54] certain amount that goes into streets and repairs every year just because that

[19:58] is our obligation as a city. But the way we've ever been able to make any kind of

[20:02] impact is through a lot of grants and a lot of public opportunities that aren't

[20:06] internal. And so to do that we're going to have to look at other creative

[20:10] sources. And you know that one I remember eight street there were a lot

[20:13] of different grants that we used that were kind of it was very straightforward

[20:17] but it it's kind of like when we talk about uh the CBBG funding of like yeah

[20:22] this is going to help build pave a parking lot but that parking lot money

[20:26] that we're paying for is now money that can go into staffing that we're not

[20:28] allowed to fund and so sometimes we have to be a little bit more creative and

[20:31] play with that. So, I'm hoping that comes out in the budget process. But I

[20:35] think that does play a little bit into three and four too though of the reality

[20:39] is the way we budget now and all the infrastructure work we have to pick like

[20:43] catch up on after a generation is we can't redo every street every time we

[20:49] touch one and some of it is a repave or or you know tear it down. Some of it's a

[20:53] repave, some of it's a resurface. We can't tear, you know, we have a lot of

[20:58] opportunities and we're seeing that this summer on 9th 10th and in that core that

[21:01] area, but we have a lot of opportunities to improve, but we can't always restart.

[21:05] And I think sometimes when we have envisioning things like that out here

[21:10] and even wanting to move ahead on these goals, we can tend to try and make

[21:16] everything that we acknowledge is a repair into a total redo. And that might

[21:22] be part of the conversations we have to have coming forward. If that truly is

[21:25] how we have to get to where we are, then that might be the p something the public

[21:28] has to engage in and say, "Yeah, I'd rather you do two streets on four, three

[21:32] blocks a year and leave my some potholes just temporarily filled and not

[21:38] resurfaced." Or we have to just be a little bit more realistic about what we

[21:42] can do when the projects are brought forward to us. But that's on us as

[21:46] commissioners and the decision-making body where staff's kind of doing what's

[21:51] recommended by standard protocol of keeping our streets up and safe. Those

[21:55] are things bigger conversations we're going to have to have in the context of

[21:58] this kind of more envisioned. So I'm I sound like I'm not hopeful. I'm hopeful

[22:02] on all these. I think they're just really big conversations we're going to

[22:05] have to have and could be some major shifts in how we look at the budgeting

[22:08] going forward. So >> thank you. thing.

[22:13] » So, uh, starting with the the corridor, uh, topic, I think this is one that I

[22:20] want to hone in on because, uh, this also to me ties into our ability to work

[22:25] with other municipalities. Grand Traverse County um is putting forward a

[22:30] corridor development plan and that is touching the townships, touches the city

[22:36] and it uh is focusing on effective and efficient use of infrastructure and also

[22:43] protecting uh green spaces and areas uh by by focusing development in these

[22:48] places where it is relatively speaking uh what we need to have in place the

[22:53] sewer, the water etc is already there. and so limiting some sprawl. And so I

[22:58] think if there is a a way to move that forward, it will be uh in again tying

[23:06] that into working collaboratively because our corridors don't stop at city

[23:10] limits. Yeah. Uh you know they are in crossing into Garfield Township. They

[23:15] are crossing you know all every t single one of our corridors it traverses into

[23:20] other municipalities. And so I think that's a really important uh thing to to

[23:26] highlight and lift up is that we have our corridor plan, master plan that's

[23:30] over a decade old, but this is currently happening. These are conversations that

[23:33] are going on and making sure that the city is part of those and at that table

[23:38] um moving those forward. Um so I think that that was the one that really that

[23:43] spoke to me. And then you know we with the people centric street design I'm

[23:47] glad to that the this um complete streets is moving forward. you know, we

[23:51] did get some good momentum on that. And I also I also think we als have have are

[23:56] recognizing the degree to which a lot of our streets don't actually fall under

[24:01] city jurisdiction. You know, they are in our city, but that they are there are

[24:04] limited thing. You know, we've heard from the folks who live along Peninsula

[24:08] Drive and Eastern A about their frustrations with their with their c the

[24:11] crosswalks available there. And so I think there is some of this is also

[24:15] about greater communication around what we do and do not have direct oversight

[24:21] of. >> Yeah, good could good comment. And it

[24:25] was, you know, my final piece on this, so thank you for sharing those thoughts

[24:29] is that these these actions largely came from the community engagement, right?

[24:34] And they were framed to reflect the sort of tenor of what we heard from the

[24:37] community. Um, and I think there's a sort of a I I wouldn't mind just some

[24:41] sort of general thoughts on how you think the approach should be on this

[24:46] when when at a at a community level most people are very local based, right? I

[24:50] mean, they're talking about my neighborhood, my I mean there was a

[24:54] strong kind of narrative about neighborhood or my street or my crossing

[24:58] or whatever. Um, and and that what that looks like and then yet at a city you've

[25:02] got to have these larger sort of overarching, you know, sort of master

[25:06] plans and so on, right? And and I think my observation has been that that's part

[25:11] of the disconnect at the moment is that you know people are very concerned about

[25:14] their local and whether they don't feel that gets reflected in the sort of

[25:18] larger master plan sort of approach. But I do think that the sentiment that's

[25:23] beneath this is that somehow or other we have to think about how as we talk about

[25:26] these topics it's like there's different scales right and how do those scales

[25:31] connect together which was a little about what you were just aiming to talk

[25:34] about right but I think that's a very important thing any just general

[25:37] guidance on that sort of like how we connect those pieces before we go to the

[25:41] next pillar

[25:47] » uh I think that that it's I think it's in pillar too, isn't it? About

[25:52] neighborhood associations. I think that uh deputy city manager Deb Allen's

[25:58] program, the president's club or whatever it's I think that that's a big

[26:02] step towards answering questions like that and

[26:06] » giving this more uh global

[26:12] perspective to the neighborhoods of what we can and can't do now.

[26:16] » Okay. May maybe also um you know a reporting dashboard has been a part of

[26:22] this project from the big beginning and making that as um accessible and and

[26:30] communicating the results from that dashboard very broadly and frequently um

[26:36] might be a way to help people say oh okay my crosswalk didn't get done but um

[26:43] citywide there were 25 crosswalks that were upgraded and you know mine will

[26:49] come long. So u better reporting >> of progress might might be helpful.

[26:56] » Yeah, I actually really understand that because I mean we talk about these 10

[26:59] year plans or corridor plans of 20. Most people aren't living in that kind of

[27:03] world, right? They're more interested in what's So I think something that people

[27:07] could track what's going on >> and see when when it's coming to their

[27:11] door could be really interesting and useful.

[27:14] » Yeah. And the only thing I would add to is um I put a part of this on the

[27:18] commission itself. I'll say us for assembled one today and I've already

[27:22] seen improvements with this with staff through things like the Bay Reef and

[27:25] others. But communicating what we can and can't do ourselves as well. We, you

[27:31] know, staff is are the experts. They live in it every day. They're

[27:34] professionals, often certified professionals. A lot of us, I'm sure

[27:38] even our newer commissioners are feeling like they've had a real um education on

[27:44] government parliament and the alphabet soup we all use when we talk and

[27:48] everything else like that. But being better in our public meetings like

[27:52] meetings are televised. We inter media for our city. We have to be better. I

[27:56] think continue to be better. I think it's gotten better in the last couple of

[27:59] years of saying not just here's what's presented and anybody looking at it

[28:04] would say well why isn't this here or why isn't my street on this and saying

[28:08] we we're paying for this with a grant that only allowed this much space or

[28:12] we're doing this because it's the M dot trunk line and the money only goes there

[28:15] that's why seventh street isn't being touched or vice versa. So, I think we

[28:19] just have to do a little bit better. I think continue to do better in

[28:23] communicating some of that to the public as we're introducing some of these

[28:26] topics because a dashboard and everything are good, but if if there's

[28:30] that missing important piece of where funding andor um uh use of resources is

[28:36] coming from for a very good reason, the public should know that as well.

[28:40] » Okay. All right. Thank you. Um let's jump to the next pillar. Right. Um so

[28:46] this was Heather as you start to introduce this is about the placemaking

[28:50] and neighborhood character. Um the objective of protecting the character of

[28:53] the downtown the neighborhoods. Um here we have these four uh action areas. So

[28:58] experience based approach to placem uh elevating power the role of neighborhood

[29:04] associations intentionally creating gathering and

[29:08] social spaces and then this uh enhanced multimedia connectivity between the

[29:13] neighborhoods. You can see there on the scoring that there was nothing really on

[29:17] this one that jumped as a high priority by the in the community assessment.

[29:21] There were medium and and low, but they're all relative, right? Because

[29:24] they're all on the list. So, they're all on people's minds. Um, you can see the

[29:28] progress, the subjective assessment on on progress. Um, if we look go to the

[29:33] survey, um, this one was actually reasonably strong. I mean, they're

[29:38] they're not sort of over five and a half, but there's no real kind of weak

[29:41] points in this, but but we do want to think about how we elevate the whole

[29:45] performance of this pillar and the actions that are in it. Um, and

[29:51] shall we just dive into this? Tim, maybe we start with you this time. Go around

[29:56] from you, right?

[30:05] uh not to like beg off on the question but I think when I took the survey I

[30:09] even commented about the complete streets because again to me it ties in

[30:13] here at least uh number eight is you know multimodal connectivity that's

[30:17] really what complete streets all about. Um

[30:23] yeah, we like we as a community with the uh the space on 8th Street um you know

[30:30] it's a it's a pilot. I think we still consider it as a test case. Um

[30:36] but that addresses number seven. So yes, like we're making progress and I

[30:43] think we've shown ourselves in the community that this is an area that we

[30:47] can be more deliberate uh about and so on this one I am more optimistic.

[30:52] » Okay. Well, great.

[30:58] » Um I think that this one except for the action six about neighborhood

[31:03] associations which I think we're making progress on that one. All the rest of

[31:07] them I I think go back to corridors and take again taking a look at what

[31:11] intentional corridors we want 11 years on with the with all the bikes and uh

[31:18] the the increased density downtown and that um and that that will help us

[31:24] discover new gathering places and uh the best ways to get a you know uh Union

[31:33] Street goes to a golf course, C Street goes to South Airport. So maybe cast

[31:36] street is better up and down and for cars and that kind of thing. Um in the

[31:44] staff generated summary here it said that they've made a lot of substantial

[31:49] progress on bringing an experience-based approach to placemaking efforts.

[31:55] I I think that the east that east uh 8th street has I think that's been a

[32:00] success. But I I I'm I'm my hopes are definitely on the shoulders

[32:07] of the complete streets and the advisory board there to to really bring true

[32:12] experienced uh based approach to how we talk about

[32:18] mobility in town. Yeah, there was a lot of interest that people talked about in

[32:23] terms of like there's one thing to have the spaces, but then how do you activate

[32:26] them, right? And how do you how do you make them truly a a neighborhood centric

[32:30] or you know a local ccentric experience. So I think there's a sort of a subtext

[32:34] through a lot of this as well is that push and pull in a tourism economy where

[32:39] you know you're having spaces that are for locals as well. So I think you know

[32:43] we talked about that I think even some of our final sessions about some of

[32:46] these corridors really could be are not the not the touristentric but they're

[32:50] more the local centric >> combined. Yeah.

[32:54] » Yeah. Um I'd say uh the first and last five and eight are some things that we

[33:01] can be in a better role as the city government from the top level to

[33:06] encourage throughout the city. Not that neighborhood associations and local

[33:11] gathering spaces aren't important, and they are, but if the idea is for those

[33:17] to be more organic and communitydriven, then a neighborhood might decide that

[33:23] its neighborhood association is primarily focused with the annual

[33:28] neighborhood barbecue and doesn't want to get into the same uh extent of

[33:33] conversations about planning and zoning that uh the neighborhood right next

[33:37] right across the street might be focused on. Similarly, yes, we can try to create

[33:43] uh more uh gathering spaces, but who is to say what that gathering space is and

[33:49] what uh how they fit into the broader community.

[33:53] » Say um a church can be a wonderful gathering space, but that's not a place

[33:57] for government to step in, nor is that a space that would be inclusive of people

[34:03] that aren't members of that faith community. Um, a preschool child care

[34:08] center can be a great place for connecting of young parents and very

[34:13] necessary in parts of town that have many young parents, but the people that

[34:18] don't have young parents aren't uh connected through that social program.

[34:25] » Okay, thank you. >> Um, yeah, I would I join in Heather

[34:28] saying I'm really happy the progress that we're seeing with the neighborhood

[34:31] associations and making that more centralized for communication. I'm

[34:35] didn't mention it last time, but overall I'm also excited for the city commission

[34:38] to get the complete streets ad hoc recommendations and start working on

[34:41] that to start solidifying some of that for policy. Um, what I'm seeing though,

[34:46] like we've talked about the social district on 8th Street, that's been

[34:49] mentioned a couple times here, that was initiated by the businesses there. And

[34:55] while it's kind of not where I think most people in Trevor City would think

[34:58] of where we people want to go hang out and it's a probably a more local thing,

[35:02] I do see a lot of my Traverse Heights neighbors there. But I also see a lot of

[35:05] people who are visiting especially from different countries because they like

[35:09] the the feel of the sitting outside and communal atmosphere there. So I I say

[35:14] that to say that I don't think any corridor that we design will inherently

[35:17] stay local because I think any kind of gatherings uh bring people around. But I

[35:22] think that that is where the state budget-wise we could put more into this

[35:26] because look at what we did for you know $35,000 I think it was or $60,000. it

[35:31] wasn't a huge lift for a social district and created a great gathering space. Um,

[35:36] but I think that when we look at the fact we don't have like a parks

[35:39] department programming and we do we don't you know the social districts and

[35:43] things are really run by the local businesses kind of like um what Tim was

[35:46] talking about activating. I think that's an opportunity for us to do some more

[35:50] with budgeting. But I think it's also an opportunity for the community to have

[35:52] more um stake in what they want to see in their neighborhoods and the community

[35:56] itself because a lot of that is privately based or um you know a certain

[36:01] amount of initiative to draw attention to certain spaces within their area

[36:04] where we just don't you know we don't have a kickball league happening at

[36:08] Effan Park for example or something. So that's where the activating that space

[36:12] is really going to be something where I think the community is going to have a

[36:14] real good chance to engage with us or the body I should say and staff on

[36:19] creating new opportunities. So I think this one's a kind of a low hanging fruit

[36:23] p uh actually budget-wise but it's also a bigger lift on the community as

[36:27] opposed to our staff and ourselves. >> Yeah. But it is that opportunity to to

[36:33] empower the community and really create that partnership. You know what I think

[36:36] one of the other sort of overlays in all this is that that there's been a real

[36:40] intention I think in the planning and the outreach to build more trust and

[36:44] communication between the city and the community. These type of things could be

[36:49] really practical and as you say could be fairly lowcost ways to strengthen that

[36:53] partnership so that there's a you know a more collaboration.

[36:58] me. So I, you know, following up on what the

[37:03] mayor was discussing, thinking about, for instance, the social

[37:07] district and how that emerged from local business owners. Uh I across all of

[37:14] these uh categories I'm seeing an opportunity for the city to be have

[37:19] clearer channels for groups of business owners owners, a neighborhood

[37:24] association, um whatever the entity is to bring forward an idea and to have

[37:31] some uh potentially to have some pot of money, some funding in the budget

[37:35] allocated for we had talked about in uh you know in one of the the design groups

[37:41] what uh you know we called it originally was called tactical urbanism. Uh and so

[37:45] these very like lowcost experiments

[37:50] uh in activating public spaces and so you know I I

[37:56] being willing to try some things to see so okay so your neighborhood association

[38:00] is saying you want to activate this uh you know this piece of property maybe

[38:06] you want a a pocket park you know what can we do for you know $5,000 or less uh

[38:11] you know or maybe it's $1,500 or less. and being uh and then and to be able to

[38:18] have some sort of proof of concept uh as we're you know as we are seeing with the

[38:22] piloting of the social district on 8th Street. So I think there there have but

[38:27] having those channels be defined in a way that they aren't currently. I think

[38:31] it's very opaque to people who are like well we want to do this thing. Where do

[38:34] we start? Who do we talk to? Uh and if I think if if that can be advanced then

[38:40] that would be uh we would be able to make some more progress on these

[38:44] pillars. >> Cool. Yeah. Right. Thank you.

[38:47] Um there's been conversation now a couple of folks have mentioned the

[38:52] social district and um I I believe the social district made use

[38:58] of um economic development funding and it it was essentially an economic

[39:04] development proposition and um I'm sure there are you know ways to um you know

[39:12] whether it's gathering data on foot traffic or something that would help us

[39:16] to um evaluate how effective that was as an

[39:21] economic development tool. What I would like to see and what I think this pillar

[39:27] is saying to me is that not everything needs to be framed in terms of economic

[39:33] development that um this is an opportunity to

[39:38] shift our perspective to um quality of life and specifically quality of life

[39:44] for residents. So, I I believe, you know, the idea of

[39:51] coming to a neighborhood association and saying, "We've got this pot of funds and

[39:56] what would benefit you the most? What would most improve your quality of

[40:00] life?" And it will vary from neighborhood to neighborhood depending

[40:05] upon the profile of the of the residents who are there. But um for us to give

[40:12] equal weight to quality of life and economic development I think is a really

[40:18] important attitude shift among leadership.

[40:22] » I just interrupt to say kudos on that because that is something I think has

[40:26] been quietly happening at the commission level of how our policy is. But I

[40:29] appreciate you really articulating that really clearly that I think everybody

[40:33] felt like things had to be wedged for many decades even had to be wedged into

[40:37] economic development or some kind of stimulus for tax base or something to do

[40:41] it. And I really appreciate sorry I just had to jump in and say I really

[40:45] appreciate that you kind of are pointing out that shift in perspective that's

[40:48] been there but not articulated so well. So thank you. And if I can add to that

[40:53] too because it does come up later in the data is that because you're such a

[40:56] strong visitation economy, the economic development is often coupled to the

[41:00] visitation economy which is a double rub for people right when you talk about

[41:04] quality of life. So that'll come up a bit later on as well. I think that's a

[41:08] really powerful >> and if I can say uh you know the

[41:12] visitation community the the tourists that that's not that that's not quality

[41:18] of life that that's not for the people who live here. You build a place where

[41:22] people love to live there. You have they have great services. They have uh they

[41:28] have enough they have what they need whether that's trails or green space. Um

[41:33] and and then you have economic development. That's what makes economic

[41:37] development for the people who live here. Economic development for tourism

[41:41] is a completely different thing. >> Yeah. And and and we're going to revisit

[41:45] that in sustainable tourism. I I mean I I do think that was another one of those

[41:49] overlay issues is that I think there's a lot of appetite to explore the whole

[41:54] notion of sustainable tourism which is repivoting actually the economic

[41:58] surround visitation economy. Right. This is great. Benjamin, do you think we're

[42:04] getting what we need for our next ships? >> I do. Yeah. Yeah. This is great. I

[42:08] appreciate the conversation. >> All right. So, let's go to So, everybody

[42:12] waited on that, didn't they? >> Y.

[42:14] » So, let's go to the next one. Um, kind of different topic here, right? So, uh,

[42:18] this regional collaborative approach, how do we think about managing

[42:22] resources, utilities, climate adaptation, and leading on key issues

[42:26] ties into some of the things we're starting to talk about in terms of

[42:28] regional corridors and so on. Um this was something that I think surfaced

[42:33] through strategic planning and I actually came up in the very first

[42:36] session the think tank session. Um and there was this talk about that Traverse

[42:41] City needs to provide you know more leadership right and I I guess we asked

[42:46] the question is it does Traverse City have to step up and provide leadership

[42:49] or is it does it join other groups you know and the and and I tested that all

[42:55] through the strategic planning process because I knew it would have

[42:58] implications for how you operate as a group of commissions but also the staff.

[43:03] Um and at least what I heard overwhelmingly was were people saying

[43:07] well it needs to happen in a lot of cases Traverse City the city of Traverse

[43:11] City is might be the one has to lead and initiate on this um so let's dive into

[43:17] this right so um talking about fost's regional collaborative approach um we

[43:22] can see there is a series of sort of actions that were identified um the

[43:26] prioritization given by the community so the the highest one was around the

[43:31] potential for uh shared government services um but not really anything much

[43:37] happening at the level of current progress was the subjective judgment. So

[43:41] you know I think and I think that reflects the reality is that you

[43:44] obviously have been focused on your city and that's what your job is as a set of

[43:48] commissioners. Um but I think the the questions being asked about well do we

[43:53] take a bigger bigger approach. So when we asked the question about the

[43:58] alignment between that fosting a regional collaborative approach, you can

[44:01] see that these scored really low, right? Um and that I think is reflective of

[44:06] that the lack of uh current progress there which is all limited um by the

[44:12] subjective judgment. Um, this one here I think is a really interesting and it's

[44:17] kind of like a real behavioral shift for commissioners,

[44:23] staff because it and it's going to require if you go down this path, it

[44:26] requires investment of time. You got to build some equity. You're going to be

[44:30] having to deal with trade-offs. You know, there's all that that goes into

[44:33] this. Um, would love to kind of get your take on this in terms of, you know, how

[44:39] important how we tackle this. Um what do you think it looks like in terms of

[44:43] closing the gap on alignment? Maybe Heather, we can start with you.

[44:47] » Yeah, this is the this is a tough one. Um well, in again in this staff

[44:52] generated, you know, summary critique right at the top it says there is no

[44:58] current currently there is it's it's incorrectly worded. There is no current

[45:03] regional collaboration map. I'm quoting >> um

[45:09] » uh you know there's networks north or is that what it's called? Networks

[45:12] northwest. I can't I can't see anything in there as a just a normal person.

[45:16] There's nothing I can see. Um the uh I don't know what the mobility

[45:22] planning organization is either. I don't know what I think that this even though

[45:27] it's kind of a low prior priority from the the residents, I think this is a

[45:32] really huge priority for the I think it is a big and I was happy to hear my talk

[45:38] about the Grand Travis County putting together the future cor corridor

[45:41] development plan. I I think that's something that we need to be at least in

[45:45] the room for that. Um maybe the um the county board of public works is a place

[45:53] to start where we're all talking. The Michigan Township Association which I

[45:57] attend is really all u presentation focused. So there's some networking that

[46:02] goes on. We chat a little bit but really it's all about we have a presentation

[46:06] and then we go home. So we're not talking to one another. I think that

[46:10] city needs representation on the airport authority board. we are not there and

[46:15] it's right in our it's not even our backyard. It's like our living room. Um

[46:22] as far as exploring potential for shared government services, I I don't know what

[46:26] to say about that either. I mean, sure, what do those look like? We actually

[46:31] unshared last year. We broke our IT off. So, um, and as, uh, create a leadership

[46:38] team to advocate for the region. I actually think Cher's Connect does a

[46:40] good job with this and we don't need to spend it. We're already paying them to

[46:44] do it. And I think they're doing a good job. They are actually advocating for

[46:48] people to come and live here and work here and build businesses here. It's not

[46:52] Trevor City Tourism. That's not what they're working on. So, I think we're

[46:55] okay there. But, I don't know. We We need something, but I don't know what it

[46:59] is for the regional. We need a a regional planning

[47:05] advisory board, but I don't know what that looks like.

[47:08] » Yeah. Well, let's keep >> echoing what Heather just said, it um

[47:14] the last point I'd say is better served through Traverse Connect as a body than

[47:19] creating an additional structure. uh if we had some leadership team that

[47:25] was not uh under the opaces of an organization like Travers Connect, I can

[47:31] see it becoming very fraught with the different representatives from different

[47:38] municipalities than trying to fight for something that benefits their specific

[47:42] municipality or what they think their voters want rather than the goal of

[47:48] having a regional and collaborative approach.

[47:52] uh or shared government services. That would be very nice if we could, but

[47:58] that's ultimately dependent on how willing

[48:02] um or various uh community partners are willing to play with each other. like

[48:09] uh yes, as Heather just said, we separated our IT, but also we decided to

[48:17] start having ambulance service handled by Traverse City Fire, which yes, that

[48:21] is government providing better service for residents, but MMR uh had been and

[48:29] still is an ambulance service that does cover multiple municipalities

[48:33] and therefore it had been a shared service in that sense.

[48:38] Uh we do h need to have more conversations about how the city and

[48:42] county can work together, but I'm not even sure how many opportunities aside

[48:48] from there being mutual aid from fire and police uh to have joint services

[48:56] with the city and the surrounding townships.

[49:00] » Okay. uh or but I would say that 10 really needs uh more effort put into it

[49:08] because there can be uh conversations

[49:14] that various organizations, various levels of government have some role in

[49:19] it but uh it can be difficult to see the whole big picture.

[49:23] Take for example what the city is going to be doing with the Carnegie building.

[49:29] Um there we have a tenant the Crooked Tree Arts Center that wants to continue

[49:34] being in this area. We have the library that was thinking they have a plan for

[49:39] the future use of that space. Uh but so we can decide what we want to do as a

[49:45] city but then there's two people I mean two other organizations that aren't

[49:50] always in the same room as us and the broader picture of

[49:55] okay if we want to have an art center here if we want to have uh a museum or

[50:00] history interpretive site here uh that isn't necessarily fixed to that

[50:06] one location. There could be other locations both within and outside the

[50:10] city. Like uh look at our neighbor right next door.

[50:15] NMC has a property on Borbin Lake which is outside of the city that they are not

[50:21] using as much. that has a lot of vacant or in future terms or assumed to be

[50:29] vacant uh area that either of those entities uh a museum

[50:36] history center could be part of that space, an art center could be part of

[50:39] that space. But if we don't have the conversations where multiple

[50:45] organizations are actively talking to each other, we don't see what the

[50:49] opportunities are and what will work best for everybody.

[50:54] » So I I think that's great, right? I just want to kind of reenter us too on what I

[50:58] what I think this pillar was about, right? And to a degree, it is kind of

[51:02] working out those solutions, right? like you know we've got this face and you

[51:05] know where's you know that's the collaboration piece but but I think this

[51:09] was this pillar was really reflecting this sort of unease that people had

[51:14] about a lot of the city of Traverse City's future is being strongly

[51:21] influenced by the 85,000 people who live in the region but don't live in the city

[51:25] right and and I think that was the sort of you know your population is

[51:29] relatively small but you own the brand right and all roads lead and so I think

[51:33] that is really what people were kind of pushing on in the strategic planning the

[51:38] sense of how do we kind of bring people together to guide a future sure it's in

[51:44] our self-interest right but how do we bring people together to collaborate and

[51:47] you know it's thinking about resources and things like that but I do I think

[51:51] that underneath this right the what this pillar is about is about how do you kind

[51:56] of build that heft or that collaboration to be able to make good choices together

[52:02] not be inadvertently competing or have kind of different kind of directions by

[52:07] different entities, but that just I just want to kind of recenter on that. So,

[52:11] » yeah. And so I I look at this and see kind of from where the angle of the

[52:16] pillars coming from, which seems very 20,000 foot and very encompassing.

[52:20] » And what I I've noticed over the years um and I'll the example I'll give is we

[52:25] were talking about affordable housing as we always do as we should. Um, and I had

[52:30] asked, you know, is how can we can everybody get together and just put

[52:35] together a list of what affordable housing projects are on coming online,

[52:39] come, you know, due to come online, started, blah, blah, blah. How does that

[52:43] not exist? Should we be funding that? And I was told, well, oh yeah, the, you

[52:46] know, planners get together and talk about that. And so they have that list.

[52:49] And now I think what we've seen in the last couple of years, this was, this was

[52:52] probably six or seven years ago, um, housing north is kind of stepping into

[52:55] that role, much like Traverse Connect has stepped into some of these roles.

[52:58] And so I think one in the last couple of years there's been improvements in

[53:03] finding these kind of brokers if you will to bring everybody together. We can

[53:07] go back 101 15 years of Traverse City sitting at the podium or at the DAS in

[53:12] our space saying well everybody should come talk to us about housing arms

[53:16] crossed and waiting for everybody to come to us and that's no and as was

[53:20] touched on by Heather and others like no one government is gonna agency is going

[53:23] to bring everybody else together because it's a push and pull of interest. And so

[53:27] you always need that kind of mediator or or convenor of the conversations where I

[53:32] think also we have a lot of opportunity that we've seen in very very recent

[53:35] times are things like our um housing and homelessness task force or the QRT where

[53:40] these are very specified topics that are bringing people together to work on the

[53:44] solutions and getting the right parties at the table. And so I think it'd be

[53:48] great if we had a master list of everybody who's doing everything in the

[53:51] community relating to different issues, but that's just not a realistic

[53:54] resource, use of our resources or funds, but I think um looking for more of the

[53:59] gatherers like Trevor's Connect, like Housing North, having everybody work

[54:03] together to refine those to be more of what we're looking for for our data

[54:06] collection and then convening the task force with the experts to share the data

[54:12] that might already be shared because you know all this is where I think the

[54:15] commission is more like the citizens as we're supposed to be. We're not here in

[54:18] the offices every day. We're not in staff meetings and we're not in a lot of

[54:22] the other types of meetings that happen as part of people's day-to-day work. And

[54:25] so there's information gathering there that does eventually come through when

[54:29] we're presented with a policy or we convene a task force and we know who to

[54:33] ask or we're getting updates on this or that. But there a lot of people are

[54:38] working on that a lot in con in you know dayto-day and that's just something that

[54:42] we can do better when it's on relevant task or relevant information. But I

[54:47] think at some point you know people are doing this 40 hours a day and we have

[54:49] how many 100 plus staff people. I think it would be impossible for us to distill

[54:53] down everybody that they're talking to all the time and working with. But how

[54:56] do we do it on the relevant matters and and comp convey that better again

[55:00] communicate better who's there? And I think we've done that well with the

[55:02] housing task force of the list of partners who are there, having them give

[55:05] updates, things like that, and seeing that more maybe as we're seeing some of

[55:08] these more refined um or or specified issues that are part of larger topics

[55:14] that we're tackling on a case- by case basis. So do you think then at the level

[55:18] of sort of budget and programming that to move the needle on this is really as

[55:24] commissioners that you're empowering your staff and manager to be

[55:29] » be at the table on these institutional groups or

[55:32] » Yeah, absolutely. And then you know maybe there may maybe there starts to be

[55:36] a budget just the way that things are going a budget line item for task force

[55:39] because those will ultimately cost extra time and money and maybe an extra

[55:42] resource and we've figured out ways to fund that in the past such as our social

[55:46] workers and such. So um you know I'm being somewhat flippant by saying a a

[55:52] line item but that could that might be how that gets conveyed in the budget

[55:55] because we also know our staff time is valuable and you can't you know straws

[56:00] that break camel's backs. We definitely don't want to break the camels. So yeah,

[56:04] » thanks. >> Well, so I I just want to concur with

[56:07] the comments that have been made about Traverse Connect being very effective as

[56:11] an advocate for our region. Um when talking about some of the things that

[56:15] are going on at the county level, like for instance, the corridor improvement

[56:18] plan, uh whomever is appointed from the next city commission to sit on the

[56:22] economic development corporation will be part of that conversation. And so to

[56:26] your point committing uh as you know the city leadership that it's it is vital to

[56:31] be at those tables and to be in those rooms uh talking about convening

[56:35] organizations um to identify needs and solutions. The

[56:39] Grand Travers Regional Community Foundation and Rotary Charities

[56:42] frequently have those kinds of events that are and just community- based

[56:47] networking show up have a cup of coffee have a conversation find out what's

[56:51] going on. So understanding that there are in any given day a hundred different

[56:56] priorities that are coming across the desk of our city's leadership uh knowing

[57:01] when those are occurring and committing to attending those and to be a uh an

[57:06] accessible face uh for the city I think will help move the needle and to the

[57:12] mayor's point if there is some kind of a line item that emphasizes that

[57:16] commitment that's wonderful but I think more globally the understanding that um

[57:22] the need to actually go and be in the room even when the city isn't the person

[57:26] isn't the entity that is calling the meeting. Um having a little humility

[57:31] about that. >> Yeah. Okay. Great. Thank you.

[57:35] » Um I am uh drawn to number 12 about creating a leadership team to advocate

[57:42] for the region. Um, while I admire um, Traverse Connect's efforts for things

[57:50] like bringing new residents to the area, the the scope and scale of what they're

[57:56] able to accomplish is not enough to really move the needle.

[58:01] You know, the latest program, I think, is funded

[58:05] with $50,000, which allows them to um compensate

[58:11] 10 families or or, you know, um units to move to a 10count area uh and commit to

[58:20] staying there for one year. and and so that that that really isn't going to,

[58:26] you know, I I think affect have a have a big impact uh on on what our employment

[58:33] picture looks like. I'm afraid that there's a mismatch between the size of

[58:38] the issue and and the resources against it. Um I admire what was done with um

[58:47] the use of NOS's for uh the homelessness situation. They're acting as conveners.

[58:53] Um I have had a a long-term um positive view of Networks Northwest just because

[59:03] they are a source of impartial data and um whether they could help us to uh

[59:12] convene a group regionwide remains to be seen, but they they are um Switzerland,

[59:20] you know, they're they're not um you know pro anybody. They are they are

[59:25] there with the facts and I respect that. Um but I think that there are are issues

[59:32] that could really impact and benefit every government entity in our area. uh

[59:40] things like um the lodging tax, you know, what state law restricts how

[59:47] lodging taxes are allocated and it isn't funneled toward infrastructure or, you

[59:54] know, other other costs to the locality of hosting these. you know that to me

[1:00:00] might be an issue that we could come together around something that will

[1:00:07] benefit every entity in the area um has I think some upside. So

[1:00:15] » yeah. Okay, great. Thank you. And I think that's sort of getting to what I

[1:00:19] heard the community talking about, you know, like you bit hard to put your

[1:00:23] finger on. Exactly. Right. But this sort of sense of we got to we got to get our

[1:00:28] we got to have some heft, right? We got to our voices got to be heard. We can't

[1:00:31] just get lost at the level of per capita population, right? There are issues here

[1:00:36] we need other people to act on and we might need some more inland. So Jim,

[1:00:41] » yeah, excellent comments all around. Um, I guess from a high level, what I see

[1:00:47] here is, and Mitch touched on this, like we've removed ourselves from some

[1:00:53] collaboration. We're working toward collaboration and there's a lot of

[1:00:55] collaboration ongoing. Um, so what would be helpful? Maybe it's what you were

[1:01:00] able to overhear David throughout the process or maybe it's on a raw data is

[1:01:05] fostering a regional collaborative approach for what like let's be more

[1:01:10] specific and understand and then as a body say like we we probably have a

[1:01:14] consensus housing and homelessness regional heft is another one but are

[1:01:19] there other ones that rise to the top and there's consensus around because I

[1:01:24] think we're we might get stuck spinning our wheels if we just talk about

[1:01:30] regional collaborative approach at large, which is good, but we could spin

[1:01:37] our wheels for a long time. Whereas, if we're talking about housing and

[1:01:40] homelessness, there's efforts going, we could build on that. If it's

[1:01:46] » regional heft, yeah, like >> try to pick maybe the top I'll make it a

[1:01:50] top three specific things to try to collaborate on and build some momentum

[1:01:55] there. And then maybe in years to come there'll be a fourth, fifth, and sixth

[1:01:59] Yeah, good good comment. I'll go back through the data, but I top of mind the

[1:02:03] ones that I heard people talking about were housing and homelessness was one.

[1:02:08] Um, I think climate adaptation was another one. And you'll see that

[1:02:11] actually about like a regional climate plan. Um, and I think that the impact of

[1:02:17] the transient lodging tax and tourism um is another one, right? because I think

[1:02:22] that people saw you know you go through Detroit airport and it goes go to

[1:02:25] Traverse City and right people in Traverse City go we got enough right so

[1:02:28] there's a kind of disconnect there and I think they were the three at least we

[1:02:32] heard a lot about and I think we could sharpen this Benjamin as we go through

[1:02:35] into the next step by picking those out because it is kind of like a it's more

[1:02:39] like a conceptual approach rather than a set of clear kind of action steps all

[1:02:45] right let's jump to the next one um so creating a complete community so this

[1:02:51] was one that we had a very we changed it right at the end the name we flipped it

[1:02:55] didn't we this was about building social economic systems um and I think you

[1:03:01] actually too many jargony words

[1:03:05] » yeah and that's was a little bit of the sort of sort of feedback we got at the

[1:03:09] very final session right and I actually think this makes a lot more sense to

[1:03:12] people right um in terms of the action areas this was a really interesting one

[1:03:16] right so this actually scored lower as a pillar but we do we think we had that

[1:03:21] conversation. We thought it might be a bit the name of it was was sort of a bit

[1:03:24] misleading for people. Um but the community priority areas here big

[1:03:31] support on encourage more full-time residents living in the core

[1:03:34] neighborhoods. That's like the primary kind of core. That was a really strong

[1:03:38] issue for people. The sense of how do we combat the nation or the the trend

[1:03:42] towards being sort of like seasonal houses in these sort of high high value

[1:03:47] areas. And then the child the child care capacity which was I think the highest

[1:03:54] rate of priority and the second highest rate of priority. Um and you can see

[1:03:57] there on the current progress on the city side these areas for that I think

[1:04:02] there's some significant opportunity for thinking about new programming and

[1:04:07] budget allocations to reflect um what the communities point to as priorities

[1:04:12] there. Um so in terms of the survey results you can see these are really

[1:04:18] what I'd call degraded right I mean there's there we don't have much

[1:04:22] alignment at all in fact they're boosting the um child care capacity you

[1:04:27] know it's just we're we're clearly in the realm of not at all aligned right um

[1:04:32] so I think this one is an area where there's an interesting opportunity and I

[1:04:36] think it ties to what you were saying too Jackie earlier about the quality of

[1:04:40] life component right Um so let's have a let's have a crack at this one. Right.

[1:04:44] So we've got some you know four sort of actions areas. There might be I mean

[1:04:49] these are just actions that the community identified. I think these are

[1:04:52] going to morph a little but this whole idea about how do we make those main

[1:04:56] neighborhood areas like truly livable you know vibrant with you know people

[1:05:01] living there and so on. um this idea of showcasing best practice solutions uh

[1:05:07] promoting equity and then this child care capacity which is obviously a sort

[1:05:11] of key issue for people. So Mitch do you want to take us away on this one? Uh

[1:05:17] child care is something that we've heard a lot about but the city hasn't really

[1:05:21] stepped into the county did for a period but it is something that is needed and

[1:05:31] it does tie into the fact that we do have a lot of people that commute into

[1:05:35] this city uh without living here in part because uh both housing expensive and

[1:05:42] childcare is limited here. So that could potentially tie back to the

[1:05:48] top 13. If uh we have better child care opportunities in Traverse City, then

[1:05:55] more of those people can feel that they have a home where their young family can

[1:06:00] be. >> Yeah.

[1:06:03] » Yeah. Thank you. >> So, a couple on this one is um child

[1:06:07] care. We did actually used to do a summer camp and I think that would be a

[1:06:09] low hanging fruit we could even do this year for next year obviously

[1:06:14] » um that there's a template um I know United Way reached out to me and other I

[1:06:19] think some others >> who I'm sorry

[1:06:21] » United Way um a couple of months ago because they are working on trying to

[1:06:25] both boost and bolster the use of tri share in this community but also to just

[1:06:30] finding these summer solutions. Um, you know, there's a lot of larger

[1:06:34] organizations that are trusted like the YMCA and NMC that offer summer

[1:06:39] programming um that are out there and there's even a group right now exploring

[1:06:44] a millillage for child care. So, there's literally going to be an opportunity

[1:06:47] very likely in the next year to three years for the people of Trevor City and

[1:06:51] Grand Traverse County to put their money where their mouth is.

[1:06:53] » And it's relatively affordable proposition from what the numbers are

[1:06:57] coming out, but there's a lot more work being done on that. And then that would

[1:07:00] be the look of does is that investing in programs and allowing them to expand

[1:07:03] because we do know that the um even with the we a few years ago the city got rid

[1:07:08] of I think pretty much every restriction we had locally on childcare and just

[1:07:11] defaulted to the states but the state still has quite a bit and um and

[1:07:15] rightfully so we want children to be safe obviously um but working as is

[1:07:21] there are there places where that can be relaxed a little getting the startup can

[1:07:24] be very difficult there's some talks about uh relaxing the laws on a micro

[1:07:29] scale so that rather than just being in somebody's house, somebody could do it

[1:07:32] in a smaller building for space. Um, so there are conversations happening around

[1:07:36] this, it's money and it's time and it's policy and there's the right combination

[1:07:41] of forces coming together. So again, I think the city bringing back summer camp

[1:07:44] with some of these other interested parties potentially is something we

[1:07:49] could really have explored and probably not be a huge lift. Um, but I would also

[1:07:53] say that one of in my my day job, if you will, um, I'm actually working on a

[1:07:58] three-year grant with um, a team of four on the governor's 60 by30 initiative.

[1:08:03] And that is the, um, governor's plan to have every Michigander or 60% of

[1:08:07] Michiganders of college eligible age have either a degree or certification.

[1:08:12] And the idea behind this is raising the middle class. And so getting businesses

[1:08:16] to invest in trainings and certifications and education for their

[1:08:20] employees, getting people who kind of fell off the wagon or didn't continue

[1:08:24] into education to take advantage of a lot of the programs that are out there

[1:08:27] through the state right now. And I say this as there's a lot going on in a lot

[1:08:31] of our communities that are touching on in our community already that are

[1:08:34] touching on some of these things because we know to live here have to have a

[1:08:36] decent paying job in the city or we have to, you know, it's part of our housing

[1:08:40] conversation too. the child care issue isn't going to be solved by the city

[1:08:43] alone, but there are little things we can do and there's other people out

[1:08:45] there that we can partner with to try and elevate that conversation. and the

[1:08:50] so social equity and people living in the core neighborhoods. That's I mean

[1:08:54] those are some econ those are people who are the social equity especially I think

[1:08:58] we have a lot of good uh nonprofits in our community doing that work and we

[1:09:01] just need to continue to support them support initiatives when they come to us

[1:09:04] whether it's using the open space or asking for proclamation those little

[1:09:08] things we do make a difference to the bigger work that's being done by others

[1:09:11] in the community and uh the residents and the core that's that's a cost issue

[1:09:16] that we're all we've all been struggling and working with because you know it was

[1:09:21] I think there was a little bit of a criticism of I think of David saying the

[1:09:24] visitation community versus tourism. But I think we also have residents who live

[1:09:28] here five months of the year or four months of the year that are people's

[1:09:32] neighbors that they see and they talk to and they come to their neighborhood, you

[1:09:35] know, block party, but they're not full-time residents here. And so that is

[1:09:39] that difference of the people that are engaging and going to our schools and

[1:09:43] part of our economy. And so some of the a lot of this is again those regional

[1:09:47] partners where we have to have some of those um bigger conversations, but there

[1:09:51] are some this one I feel like has a couple very tangible things that the

[1:09:54] city could do with our budget and align with priorities better.

[1:09:58] » Yeah. C can I ask you is do you think there's appetite to because I I

[1:10:03] personally think the encourage more full-time residents living in the core

[1:10:06] neighborhoods. I understand the sentiment, right, that people talk

[1:10:09] about. >> Tough one to track because because

[1:10:12] you're really dealing with, you know, people's individual rights and property

[1:10:15] rights, all that sort of stuff. Do you think there's appetite to like push in

[1:10:19] on that in an like think about what innovative approaches there could be or

[1:10:23] » I I think so. And I think it also is something that my understanding right

[1:10:26] now, unless something's changed, is you know, when you if you're a non-homestead

[1:10:30] resident, you pay more in tax, but that all goes to TCAPS, the school district,

[1:10:33] which is good. We want to support our schools, but we can as a city exercise a

[1:10:38] non-resident tax. And so, you know, is that are there things like that that we

[1:10:43] again regionally with our partners like Traverse Connect or something can

[1:10:46] advocate for as well as getting creative with any changes in the law? Lauren, are

[1:10:50] you nodding your head? Yes or no? I'm sorry.

[1:10:51] » I mean, it's something we could explore. There are different there are different

[1:10:55] ways. >> There are different things that we could

[1:10:58] explore, but I mean, it's really that's a really tricky one to

[1:11:02] » Yeah. And so I think we have staff that can get very creative and we have

[1:11:07] officials and community members who are very creative. Um but we also have

[1:11:11] lancing so that limits us sometimes. >> Yeah. Okay. Good. Thank you. Please.

[1:11:18] » So I I know that re of these that child boosting child care capacity had a huge

[1:11:25] amount of uh of mass critical mass to it. Um, and I'm going back to your point

[1:11:31] about micro centers. Until or unless the state makes changes at that level, um, I

[1:11:38] think there is something to be said about full-time encouraging full-time

[1:11:42] residents and boosting child care through encouraging homebased care. Um,

[1:11:47] and if there are in and helping to if there if there are still barriers with

[1:11:51] the density of homebased center or uh other issues around zoning to be able to

[1:11:57] address that, but to if there are ways to incentivize with developments, if we

[1:12:01] are offering a pilot for a development, uh, is there a way to say to the

[1:12:06] developer and you know to really get to maximize what we're willing to offer you

[1:12:10] for a pilot, uh, we would want you to incentivize a unit for a homebased child

[1:12:17] care center. Uh this is something that I've heard from actually from folks who

[1:12:21] work in the industry that they would love to see this happening because where

[1:12:25] do we need most child more child care centers in uh multifamily uh you know

[1:12:30] that makes a lot of sense to have it in a multif family development. So I think

[1:12:34] that there is a way to connect those two things together um and to move momentum

[1:12:39] on both of them. >> Yeah. And it's not then the city

[1:12:42] necessarily doing it but you're providing the enabling mechanisms.

[1:12:46] » Correct. >> Yeah.

[1:12:48] » Thank you. >> So left to my own devices this was this

[1:12:53] was my number one pillar. >> Okay. And um because I think that um

[1:13:01] a community of full-time residents has advantages in terms of quality of life

[1:13:08] that a that a hollowedout community of of part-time or short-term

[1:13:13] residents or transitory residents um may not. So, um I I am very interested in um

[1:13:24] exploring what kind of tools might be available to us to encourage full-time

[1:13:29] residents. Um I also am sensitive to the fact that

[1:13:35] we're hearing anecdotal reports of um oh professionals, you

[1:13:42] know, doctors at Mson who turned down jobs because they couldn't afford

[1:13:46] housing. Well, yes, housing prices are high. Are salaries high enough?

[1:13:53] » So, I think that exploring pay scales in Traverse City and um

[1:14:03] making making discrepancies between Grand Traverse County and downstate

[1:14:09] counties and markets perhaps a little more visible. you know, if we have a

[1:14:13] bully pulpit, that might be a place to use it. Um, I am absolutely in favor of

[1:14:21] um promoting Triricare wherever we can, the

[1:14:26] the summer camps definitely. um looking for ways to um encourage

[1:14:35] whether through uh skill building or financing

[1:14:39] um more child care locations. And I'm not sure what that would take, but um

[1:14:48] you know, the lack of full-time residents has this this knock-on effect

[1:14:53] on our school systems and our and our retailers and our, you know, it just

[1:15:01] makes this strong seasonality of our economy even worse. and and so I I see

[1:15:08] this as just a real urgent issue for the quality of life overall.

[1:15:14] » Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Um

[1:15:18] in the very early meetings I thought this one this concept came out of the

[1:15:24] original thoughts about you know there were a lot of talk about climate change

[1:15:27] and welloff people in other parts of the countryside hey Traverse City looks good

[1:15:31] let's move there I can bring my business work remotely whatever it might be. Um

[1:15:36] and so a lot of the discussion was welloff people will be they are coming

[1:15:40] here and it will just accelerate and so how do we stay a balanced community and

[1:15:45] that gets to some of uh all these words that uh Heather referred to they get

[1:15:50] piled into there but I think on a a simple or simp oversimplified basis it

[1:15:55] was let's remain a diverse community and not just an aspen type of community in

[1:16:00] the future. Um, and so it will take hard work and there aren't easy answers, but

[1:16:05] I think something a role that the city could play better is uh as a clearing

[1:16:11] house to help current residents understand what is available uh as far

[1:16:17] as assistance. Like there's a a USDA section 504 uh program with significant

[1:16:24] amounts of money. like I'm going to ignore the current state of the federal

[1:16:27] government, but there has been. And when I spoke to somebody there several months

[1:16:30] ago, it was still in existence. Um, but there's very low interest loans

[1:16:36] available there. And I believe the age was 60 and above. You can get a $10,000

[1:16:41] grant even. So that's just an example. And then there's, you know, uh, Trevor

[1:16:45] City Light and Power with Unbuilt financing. There's a lot of programs in

[1:16:49] existence that I would guess a large majority of our uh residents just aren't

[1:16:55] aware of. And it's not that part of its marketing and packaging

[1:17:00] because this exists for everybody. It's not like oh here's a hand they're not

[1:17:04] handouts like oh here's a handout somehow. It's these exist for all of us

[1:17:08] for our community. Uh and we as a city could maybe do a better job of I say

[1:17:14] clearing house. I don't know what the right words are, but just uh helping to

[1:17:18] get the word out, spread the word, maybe even help people fill out the paperwork

[1:17:22] somehow. You know, that that staffing, etc. But u maybe there is a way to

[1:17:29] leverage what currently exists. >> Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And you know,

[1:17:34] just my personal opinion, so ignore it if you choose, right? is that I I do

[1:17:38] think that that pressure for you as a location. To me, it gives you about a

[1:17:44] fiveyear window, right? Your your community character is going to get

[1:17:47] shaped dramatically by who comes here and what radar you get on, right? And so

[1:17:53] you do have a a window when you perhaps have the bully pulpit and things like

[1:17:57] that to be able to to create expectations of if people move here or

[1:18:02] looking to move here, what does that what does that come with it as a

[1:18:05] responsibility to be part of the community? I mean there's a there's

[1:18:08] perhaps a whole range of creative things you could think about. Um but I do think

[1:18:11] that that maintaining the sense of you being a functioning community like a

[1:18:16] complete community. I I do and that's one that's kind of easy to kind of kind

[1:18:21] of push off into the future because it's not a pothole on the road and it's sort

[1:18:25] of it's more a trajectory. Um, but I do think that's one as commissioners to

[1:18:31] really keep an eye on because the character of your community could change

[1:18:34] and that's what that's what that prioritization that's what I think the

[1:18:38] community was saying in that high priority there about that you know might

[1:18:42] be it might be a sort of simplistic approach just like let's find a way to

[1:18:46] stack more people in our common kind of core neighborhoods but what they're

[1:18:49] really reflecting I think is a concern about the the loss of community

[1:18:56] » um I I think that uh Commissioner Wernner had a great point about some

[1:19:01] kind of public service workshops about you know grants. Maybe you could fold in

[1:19:08] like the ADU you know plan thing. So we have some kind of ongoing public service

[1:19:15] workshopy thing. Um it needs to be budgeted of course. Um, I think that,

[1:19:22] uh, to your point, David, preserving what we already have that people really

[1:19:27] like about this place, you know, our trees, our access to recreation, safe

[1:19:32] streets, uh, great, uh, variety and culture, um, good schools,

[1:19:39] all of those things, you know, just work hard to make those things keep working

[1:19:43] like they are now. Um, we do have a wage problem and maybe that needs some soft

[1:19:48] power behind it that we talk about it more, you know, if if we can't if people

[1:19:53] can't afford here, people that we actually need to be living here, then,

[1:19:58] you know, and we want people to be able to maybe have a a rental and then they

[1:20:02] have a starter home, that kind of thing. And that those options are pretty

[1:20:06] limited right now. I keep an eagle eye on people who are claiming homestead

[1:20:12] status and maybe aren't really homesteaders. U I've been told that that

[1:20:17] that actually does happen that the eagle eye is there. Um and you know affordable

[1:20:25] housing for the service people who work in our restaurants who

[1:20:29] you know most of the action takes place in the summertime and then people get

[1:20:34] laid off. Uh our businesses try really hard to keep those people on throughout

[1:20:38] the winter, but you know, it means that they're not that they're bottom line is

[1:20:46] extremely thin trying to keep their staff around and it doesn't help that

[1:20:50] our rents are so high. So, anything we could do to help with that. Um as far as

[1:20:55] um the child care section, I think that we've as far as Zoe is concerned, we've

[1:21:01] done everything we can to make it easy to have child care. But I think I

[1:21:06] thought my uh Commissioner Stanley's idea about incentives for homebased care

[1:21:13] was a great idea. That's a really good idea. So maybe we can do something about

[1:21:19] that. Maybe that's part of this service workshop program or every month it's

[1:21:25] about something else like that's all I got.

[1:21:29] » Okay, great. Thank you very much. Um two to go right. So um supporting

[1:21:36] environmental sustainability. So this is that kind of bigger question about how

[1:21:40] we adapt to this changing world um maintain a thriving ecosystem.

[1:21:46] um few kind of really interesting actions

[1:21:49] rose to the surface, right? So this idea of a sustainability plan that focuses on

[1:21:53] climate mitigation adaptation uh research and replicate best practice

[1:21:58] sustainability um measures embed environmental education visitor

[1:22:03] interface explore new visitation economy funding sustain sustainability measures.

[1:22:08] So this will also kind of collapse over a little bit actually into the to the

[1:22:13] year end economy which is the last pillar. Um you can see here there was a

[1:22:17] bunch of pri high priority areas for the community in this. So a number of the

[1:22:20] actions really jumped up. Um and the the one where there was seem to be some

[1:22:26] progress was around the uh developing the sustainability plan. Um clearly a

[1:22:31] deep value in this community. I mean that just runs through the the core of

[1:22:35] it. Um but if we look at the data on uh where we think we're doing in terms of

[1:22:41] alignment the budgets and programs uh one being not at all aligned 10 being

[1:22:46] very well aligned you can see the the numbers are are not your best scorec

[1:22:51] card right so and this is your your assessment of that so there were areas

[1:22:55] here obviously where uh you saw that there's there's obviously a lot of

[1:23:01] potential but there's also a lack of alignment so may you want to take us

[1:23:05] Sure. Well, the first thing is I absolutely agree that a plan of some

[1:23:09] kind um we did a climate action plan at Traverse Lane Power that um you know

[1:23:15] different from what we're talking about but not where I think

[1:23:19] this is where we get into in a lot of discussions in the city commission level

[1:23:22] over the years where we hire I mean no I just would say as a whole of the people

[1:23:28] that have been hired pretty much since I started uh 10 years ago

[1:23:33] there's people know what they're getting into with Traverse City. They know that

[1:23:36] we're an environmentally focused community. They know that we're a

[1:23:39] community that tries to like have some progressive values on things like this.

[1:23:43] And so that is where a lot of people are our staff is starting from. And then

[1:23:48] there is a standard that varies from elected body to elected body. You know,

[1:23:54] I think I've served with eight over the last 10 years or seven. Seven or eight

[1:23:58] anyways. Um as well as what that means to each person individually. And that's

[1:24:04] good. It keeps us at a high standard because I think that is something that

[1:24:07] gets lost is Traverse City has a pretty high standard for the state. If you

[1:24:10] travel around and you talk to people, we are known and noted for the work we're

[1:24:14] doing. That's not a laurel we should sit on. That's something we should

[1:24:17] continuously improve and push. But it also means that it becomes very

[1:24:21] subjective when we're having especially policy discussions of what that means to

[1:24:25] different people. And we've had heard it argued about how we use the word

[1:24:29] sustainability, how we use, you know, some of the more common accepted

[1:24:33] vernacular. And it's all very fair convers critiques and conversations that

[1:24:38] need to be had. But I think having some kind of an overarching plan with input

[1:24:43] that then at least everybody who knows that when something comes to us from

[1:24:46] staff or something comes to us from an initiative, it's coming from that base,

[1:24:51] right? I think it's and I think that's something we have to do better on

[1:24:53] everything in the in our community. Sometimes with our conversations, you

[1:24:56] know, we get questions sometimes, is this legal? Well, nothing comes to us

[1:25:00] that hasn't been checked by our attorney. Similarly, let's have

[1:25:03] something that reassures people that minimally we've looked at these things.

[1:25:06] Now, the the body, the public then can debate how could, you know, can we do it

[1:25:11] better? How do we budget for it to be better? But knowing that there's these

[1:25:14] underpinnings of all everything coming out of staff, that there's this agreed

[1:25:18] upon sentiment of this is what we mean when we say we're bringing forth a

[1:25:22] policy that we feel meets our standards environmentally as a community and as a

[1:25:26] city. I think that that's an important baseline because otherwise it's going to

[1:25:29] be throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks and arrows that may

[1:25:33] or darts that may or may not hit the target depending on who's sitting in

[1:25:37] those seven seats and that's not the best way for us to be effective and to

[1:25:41] get to the goals that we want to get to. Um so that to me is the the very number

[1:25:46] one. Um you know the the a tourism or the visitation economy and the tourism

[1:25:53] you know we know people come here for that. We had this conversation I think

[1:25:56] at right here actually about in the other room um about what does that mean

[1:26:00] and I think that ultimately again is a lot of private industry but what can we

[1:26:05] do locally and explore that isn't um yeah I wouldn't say you know punitive

[1:26:11] but what can we do to really encourage our businesses through incentives

[1:26:14] through conversations through public pressure to be more sustainable and in

[1:26:19] how they practice and what they do. Um, so I think the, you know, kind of the

[1:26:25] the other three, the first three there, 17, 18, and 19, kind of all fall under

[1:26:29] us having a better baseline that we're starting from because I think that's

[1:26:33] where some of the distrust is is, you know, you have people, we have very

[1:26:36] active, engaged environmentalists in this community. And so, you know, I

[1:26:39] think anything any commission could do might never meet a high standard for

[1:26:42] that the that group of people. And that's why it's great to have them in

[1:26:45] our community because they keep us pushing. But let's at least have a

[1:26:47] baseline of people that we're starting from.

[1:26:50] So can I dig into that just a little? Right. So because and you were right.

[1:26:54] You said at the start that you know people when they come here they know

[1:26:57] what they're getting into. Right. This is a value that the community shares.

[1:27:00] Right. >> But this data is your data and the

[1:27:04] candidates. Right. And does that say that you don't feel like you're walking

[1:27:07] the talk? Is that or was that >> Well, that's where I questioned I I

[1:27:12] think I rated this one higher than most people because I looked at it through

[1:27:14] the lens again of we're talking essentially what we're talking about to

[1:27:18] me to the stuff we're talking about the disposable or the the discretionary

[1:27:22] funding that we have in our budget because we have a lot of obligations and

[1:27:27] where we think that and I think that that gets into we've talked about it in

[1:27:30] a couple of different arenas of where people think that our staff is starting

[1:27:35] from and so I think that's a better that comes down communication. But I think

[1:27:38] that's where having something fundamental that we know is the baseline

[1:27:42] helps everybody gain that trust that maybe because somebody might have had

[1:27:46] more conversations with our engineer or our clerk or someone knows where they're

[1:27:52] at, it's you unless you have that personal interaction, it becomes a they,

[1:27:56] right? It becomes an otherness. Okay? >> And so trying to eliminate some of that

[1:27:59] otherness to say, listen, we know we're all starting here. We know if you're if

[1:28:03] you're applying for a job here, this is what you're you're buying into. if and I

[1:28:07] that was just for work by the way, not the community or the for the staff, not

[1:28:10] just the community in general. Um, we know that we we want to do more with our

[1:28:15] budget in this way, but what does that look like? Because right now it's a

[1:28:18] project by project throwing a dart at it or having a fight about us a sidewalk

[1:28:24] that's maybe relevant, but then are we missing other things because we're

[1:28:28] getting focused on these projects that are being brought forward that we're not

[1:28:30] doing enough with storm water, which we know is something we're not doing enough

[1:28:33] with. And so let's like have this bigger conversation so there's big this bigger

[1:28:37] underpinning that really that's why this is one of the pillars for the budget

[1:28:41] right is we know that but on the small scale and on the large scale things like

[1:28:45] storm water we need to do more but what does that look and sound like that it

[1:28:50] isn't just arbitrary every year depending on who seven people are

[1:28:53] sitting up there passing a budget. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, you know, that data

[1:28:58] also the way the actions were developed. I think it's you're talking about staff

[1:29:03] coming knowing what they're buying into, but people are also saying they want

[1:29:06] visitors to come and be part of the solution. So,

[1:29:09] » so thank you. Please. So in terms of budget, I would say we perhaps have been

[1:29:16] not as well aligned, but I think programmatically or at least in terms of

[1:29:20] focus, there has been a lot of effort on this around, you know, we've had two uh

[1:29:27] storm water ad hocs that have been very active and you there's and again I think

[1:29:33] a lot of this comes down to what we uh where we can use our for lack of a

[1:29:37] better word social capital to press some levers to get uh others to to take

[1:29:42] action versus what we have the capacity to mandate uh you know the the original

[1:29:48] storm water ad hoc we had the discussion that this uh we couldn't have a utility

[1:29:52] because that would be considered a tax um and you know things of that nature

[1:29:56] but I think that it's also you know we every year we have the discussion about

[1:30:00] how much uh road salt we use and you know there's been a 50% reduction and

[1:30:05] every year we talk about reducing that further you so there this is a focus and

[1:30:11] I I also agree that having some like very concrete sort of baseline you know

[1:30:15] a 50% reduction that's wonderful like what where are we at what is our target

[1:30:20] you know do you know if we're talking about getting to carbon neutrality you

[1:30:23] know where are we on that having if there if there's a dashboard around that

[1:30:27] that so perhaps in terms of actual budget allocations not hasn't been well

[1:30:32] aligned but there is work and has been work happening here and there has been

[1:30:37] this is as to your point mayor uh something that in the city of Traverse

[1:30:41] City there is there is a baseline uh you know sort of expectation around this and

[1:30:46] so continuing to have those conversations but get very concrete

[1:30:51] about what are the where what are the areas where we can actually uh do

[1:30:57] something as a city uh that where are where are the places we can have some

[1:31:02] mandates and some change some policies and then where are the way ways we need

[1:31:07] to act more regionally to to use some of those social pressures.

[1:31:13] » Very clear. Thank you. >> It seems to me that this is the ideal

[1:31:20] issue um for regional collaboration. Um we we are 8.2 square miles or whatever

[1:31:28] it is and surrounded by a much larger area that

[1:31:34] you know we we need to do this together. And uh

[1:31:40] it seems to me that this would reach the the threshold of benefiting

[1:31:47] everyone. Everyone would have skin in the game. everyone would experience

[1:31:51] benefits. And um you know perhaps if we are um ahead of some of the other local

[1:32:00] government entities in our in our actions in this area that maybe maybe we

[1:32:06] can act as a convenor or that we can um you know leverage

[1:32:13] um input from local water and environmental NOS's that um

[1:32:20] have been doing um quiet work for a long time and uh to partner with them more

[1:32:28] more effectively. >> Okay. Thank you.

[1:32:33] Yeah, there's uh two categories here in my mind and they they do overlap from

[1:32:39] time to time and on certain topics, but there's uh essentially water quality is

[1:32:44] one of our big things in Traverse City and there were a lot of discussions

[1:32:47] during development of strategic plan. Uh but also the climate crisis as another

[1:32:52] big topic and again there there is a ven diagram where some things overlap. you

[1:32:56] know, certainly trees, storm water, uh, intensity of events, things like that.

[1:33:01] Um, invasive species. Um, on the storm water side though, like we as a city

[1:33:07] commission, I thought we did an excellent job of starting the

[1:33:10] conversation about microlastics, you know, with West End Beach and saying,

[1:33:13] "Hey, we don't want plastic netting buried there that just degrades and ends

[1:33:18] up in the bay." Uh so there's topics like that that

[1:33:22] their policy they won't take much as far as budget but we could say you know what

[1:33:28] citywide for the city itself we don't want to be using these materials sort of

[1:33:33] thing and adding to the microplastics problems just as an example. Um but

[1:33:37] certainly storm water as we all know whether uh for the many years that it's

[1:33:41] been addressed that is a serious budgetary concern and then sanitary as

[1:33:45] well. Um so leaving that aside because yeah it's budgetary and there's a lot of

[1:33:50] work to be done um and it will be addressed but on the climate side I

[1:33:55] actually see that as more like the soft power discussion um you know much like

[1:34:00] child care etc. We can't force this, but we can ease the way. And to my comments

[1:34:06] on the previous topic, like that USDA program, TC Light and Power, we as a

[1:34:12] city could act as a facilitator to help with the bold idea of pilot

[1:34:16] electrification of homes in Traverse City, and that would help current

[1:34:20] residents stay in their homes, you know, lower their utility bills, etc., uh,

[1:34:24] improve insulation quality. Um so again it might be a very small budgetary item

[1:34:29] for the city but it's more the facilitator and bringing things together

[1:34:34] and having the knowhow you know working with TC light and power and others uh to

[1:34:39] improve things for current residents um and lead the way then on climate related

[1:34:45] things because we have like periodically back in 2016 2018 and other times we

[1:34:50] kind of surge ahead and Traverse City gets a lot of kudos statewide for what

[1:34:55] we're doing and then things calm down and it takes a while. Okay, what's that

[1:34:59] next big thing? That could be that next big thing that kind of puts us out there

[1:35:04] again and it's for the benefit of residents.

[1:35:07] » Yeah. Yeah. Really good comments, too. And I I I think that this is an area

[1:35:13] just again my my observation as the outsider, right? I think this is an area

[1:35:17] that there's a lot of support for in the community. And I loved your idea about

[1:35:21] like actually having concrete targets, right? And and I know in the previous

[1:35:25] sort of goals and objectives, there was sort of there was uh the topic was in

[1:35:30] there, but it wasn't really tied up in in sort of really clear targets. And you

[1:35:34] know, I've I've watched a number of your commission meetings where there's

[1:35:38] obviously, you know, there's individual issues come in front of you, but they're

[1:35:42] lacking in the context of and I think one was about permeable surfaces in a

[1:35:46] car park extension or something like that, right? And I think that like

[1:35:49] getting really clear about some of those fundamental values and and how you

[1:35:53] elevate those could really help I think a lot of streamline a lot of those sort

[1:35:57] of decisions. So every decision is contributing towards your goals towards

[1:36:01] some sort of you know environment of sustainability and so on. But I I think

[1:36:06] there's an enormous area for of innovation is potentially young.

[1:36:12] Um I I think that a regional approach is

[1:36:16] important for this, but in fact, we are at the bottom of the hill on the bay. I

[1:36:20] mean, we're like the drain and I don't think we're doing a very good job. Um,

[1:36:25] TCOP has certainly made more progress than I think the city has, even though

[1:36:30] TCLP is part of the city. But, um, like that storm water plan that that the DDA

[1:36:35] had done maybe in 2018, it is a great action plan and it's just sitting on the

[1:36:41] shelf. Nobody's done anything with it. Uh, and that's that's really too bad.

[1:36:45] And um uh it seems to me that we just start

[1:36:51] building like bio swells are just built into when we when we reconstruct streets

[1:36:57] we're just always putting in because we flood all over the city. So we just add

[1:37:01] bioells. Um let's see what else the uh research and rep number 18 using

[1:37:09] practice for others. Absolutely. We, you know, I think that I feel like I do

[1:37:14] research to look around to see what other people are doing. People are doing

[1:37:17] amazing things all over. Like Holland uses its wastewater treatment plant to

[1:37:22] melted snow. We have a wastewater treatment plant city right in the middle

[1:37:26] of the city. I mean, that's a big that's a big one, but you know, somebody could

[1:37:32] look into that and see how that's done. Um

[1:37:36] the number 19 replicate uh get some interface locations. This is a great

[1:37:42] idea and uh Commissioner Warner and I are are working with the working on the

[1:37:47] um Brownbridge Trust. It's a big fund that that we're looking to release $3

[1:37:53] million, looking to get the citizens to approve releasing $3 million to uh

[1:37:59] enhance parks in the in the city. And one of those is a really big plan for

[1:38:05] shore water uh shoreline restoration. So the the um the plan would be to add in

[1:38:12] all theseformational centers. Like why why are you planting

[1:38:16] dune grass that is sort of obstructing my view uh of the bay? Well, we plant it

[1:38:22] so that the geese can't see that there's grass on the other side and they don't

[1:38:27] poop all over the place. You know, just that kind of thing. It's also maybe an

[1:38:31] opportunity uh to have sort of interactive educational cultural kinds

[1:38:38] of you know clinch park is has lots of space there. The open space has lots of

[1:38:43] space for those kinds of projects. I don't know where that would go through

[1:38:47] parks and um

[1:38:50] and as for the last one I I agree with again with commissioner somebody about

[1:38:57] policy. You know we have the policy. all the microplastics.

[1:39:01] But um this is again I think this is a place to

[1:39:05] put soft influence. You know, how do we get rid of single

[1:39:10] plastic use? >> Yeah.

[1:39:11] » And all of our events? How do we encourage our our uh service people to

[1:39:19] stop using single plastic use? Maybe it's a bag. It's a tote bag that's made

[1:39:24] out of cloth that that you I don't know that advertises we don't use plastic

[1:39:30] here or the city doesn't use plastic. The city should make it a policy to stop

[1:39:35] using plastic. One more thing at the top too is is there anything we can do to

[1:39:40] strengthen our construction codes so that things like green roofs are

[1:39:45] promoted in some way because we can't do it through zoning. I learned that the

[1:39:50] hard way. Well, sorry to corrupt your dreams, but

[1:39:56] we also can't do any bans or regulations on single least plastic because the

[1:40:00] state legislature, >> this is a soft influence. That's what I

[1:40:03] said. >> Yes. In their infinite wisdom,

[1:40:06] specifically prohibited local municipalities or counties from having

[1:40:11] regulations on that. So yes, we could do it for our own stuff, but the events

[1:40:17] where the city is serving food is a relatively small share of those plastic

[1:40:22] plates and cups and forks that get used in this community and

[1:40:27] uh even in our downtown. But this pillar, I'm actually surprised

[1:40:32] that the ratings for alignment are so low since on the previous slide, it's

[1:40:38] something that we both value strongly in our community and we're putting a lot of

[1:40:43] effort into which rings up the question for me, uh, do people think we're

[1:40:48] misaligned because we're not doing things the way or not focusing on

[1:40:54] priorities the way that individuals think that they should be? Like, we

[1:40:58] might be putting in electric car charters and other people think we

[1:41:03] should be investing more in public transportation instead or is it people

[1:41:09] thinking that we've done a lot but their goals are aspiring to be even higher. So

[1:41:16] yes, we are setting at a standard uh above many other communities in Northern

[1:41:22] Michigan, but how high a standard can we actually set?

[1:41:28] Yeah. >> All right. Thank you. Right. So, last

[1:41:32] one. Right. So, I presume you want to allow a few minutes for public comment

[1:41:35] or questions at the end. So, >> so let's do this one quick. Right. Um,

[1:41:40] so building a thriving year round economy. Um, it's the final pillar. A

[1:41:44] lot of what's in this will have heard uh people talk about. Um, the actions that

[1:41:50] surfaced in this embracing a sustainable tourism approach. Um, and it's

[1:41:54] multifaceted. It's got the environmental impact as well as the economic and the

[1:41:58] quality of life components. Um, high priority from the community. Um,

[1:42:03] marketing to the remote workforce. We've talked about that. Uh, recreational and

[1:42:07] resource related products and businesses. Building on the specialized

[1:42:09] advanced manufacturing sector. Um, not areas that there's been really a lot of

[1:42:14] work by the city u from the judgment uh from the work we do with staff. Um

[1:42:20] here's your your data on this in terms of how well aligned to um not at all

[1:42:26] aligned to very well aligned. Uh again you can see that this is 5.3 was the

[1:42:31] only one that cracked over a five right in the individual actions. Um and I

[1:42:36] think that talks to a lot of the work the really good work that's been going

[1:42:38] on around that. But um my do you want to take us away?

[1:42:43] » So I think again this this along the

[1:42:50] climate feels like a very much a regional

[1:42:54] issue and topic where we need to be working collaboratively uh as you know

[1:42:59] thinking about advanced manufacturing. Do we do we have even one industrial

[1:43:04] manufacturing park within the city limits? We have so we have one

[1:43:08] » park >> and a parks and the remainder are in

[1:43:11] surrounding townships but you know that I think this looking at uh I'm I'm cons

[1:43:18] I have the concern about marketing us for the remote workforce the remote

[1:43:22] workforce is here and um and in part that is driving to a certain degree the

[1:43:27] lack of affordability in our housing. they are bringing their Silicon Valley

[1:43:32] incomes to our real estate market and where the folks that are working in jobs

[1:43:37] here are still earning half the pay for the beautiful bay. Um although that is

[1:43:42] improving. So I do I do think that we like where there's excitement around the

[1:43:47] blue economy, the uh electric boats there and the specialized advanced

[1:43:51] manufacturing and again most of this will be happening outside of city limits

[1:43:55] but making sure that the city has a seat at the table and being uh in the

[1:44:00] conversation around the economic development aspects of this and the

[1:44:03] impacts on the local residents, the year-round residents who are already

[1:44:08] here is going to be key. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Thank you.

[1:44:14] » Um just a cautionary comment about targeting uh the remote workforce. Um if

[1:44:23] you look at the national numbers, they're declining fairly rapidly. And um

[1:44:28] you know, our percept our local perceptions may not match that because a

[1:44:33] big employer like Hagerty has such a a fairly broad-based remote work policy.

[1:44:40] But um I I do think that um number 23 and the blue economy has a lot of legs

[1:44:50] and um I I would want to be sure that um residents and resident benefits are um

[1:45:00] taken into consideration while this is essentially an economic development

[1:45:06] initiative. Again, I want to see balance. Um, you know, are there ways

[1:45:11] that residents can benefit from that economic development and and be as

[1:45:18] specific as we can about that? >> Yeah. Thank you.

[1:45:24] » Yeah. As far as building the thriving year-round economy, I guess I'm I'm most

[1:45:28] in favor of investing in

[1:45:32] what we have for our current residents. um you know

[1:45:37] make what's good even better what make make what's poor good like try to step

[1:45:42] everything up of what we currently have and make it a better place I mean it's

[1:45:47] already it's a great place but there's place there's opportunities for

[1:45:50] improvement and I guess I'm more in favor of focusing on folks living here

[1:45:57] now we make it an even better place people will hear that people will know

[1:46:02] and they will come and they will either bring their job with them from Silicon

[1:46:06] Valley. You we're not going to stop them or they'll move here and start a

[1:46:10] business etc. So to me that that's economic development is we just make it

[1:46:16] an even better place than it already is but with focus on current residents and

[1:46:22] others will continue to come because word spreads.

[1:46:25] » Yeah. So sort of focusing on that core value proposition.

[1:46:28] » Yeah. >> And getting that crisp and that does the

[1:46:31] job for you. >> Yeah. here. Here I second that. Um I

[1:46:35] think that the uh action 22 and such as it is because I've seen the

[1:46:42] numbers too. They're just plummeting. Everybody has to go back to the office.

[1:46:46] And uh 23 that's Traverse Connect land. 24 is a regional issue like Commissioner

[1:46:53] Stanley said. I I agree. And 21 is um I think it goes back to the last pillar,

[1:46:59] pillar five was it >> about embedding and replicating

[1:47:03] education at visitor interface locations. If if visitors come here and

[1:47:08] they don't know that we're interested in sustainability then

[1:47:13] because we're not telling them, so let's tell them. And that comes through signs

[1:47:17] and u better interactive kind of things. And we have that whole big waterfront

[1:47:22] down there to put put stuff on. And and the K Foster Museum, I mean,

[1:47:29] maybe that's also a place whatever goes in there is more it's maybe we'd like to

[1:47:35] see something that's more centered on what we're doing for the sustainability

[1:47:39] of Traverse City. >> Yeah. You know, I think that's a bigger

[1:47:43] conversation the community is wanting to have actually is about that evolution of

[1:47:47] the tourism economy >> and that's hard to kind of surface when

[1:47:51] you're in a economy that is driven so much by that sort of that economic

[1:47:55] driver. Uh but I certainly heard a lot from the community and in the various

[1:48:00] sessions we had. >> Yeah. And talking about tourism, yes,

[1:48:06] there are a lot of concerns about the scale of tourism and how much this uh

[1:48:11] community promotes tourism continually, but I'd say part of that is that so much

[1:48:17] of the impact of tourism is during three months or especially two weeks of the

[1:48:23] summer. uh when if we did have some of those people were here for a fall color

[1:48:30] tour, which leaves are starting to change already. Hate to see this early,

[1:48:35] but seasons seasons >> or coming up for spring uh cherry

[1:48:41] blossoms or uh we do have people that come to Hickory Hills or to other ski

[1:48:46] resorts but enjoy here in the winter. We are a season that we are a community

[1:48:51] that is beautiful in all four seasons and that people have reason to visit

[1:48:54] here for all four seasons. And if the marketing and promotion that does

[1:49:02] happen for this region can be trying to spread those visitors out and to balance

[1:49:08] it so that it isn't as acutely taxing our roads, our infrastructure,

[1:49:15] uh our stress levels trying to navigate across town.

[1:49:18] that could be helpful. And I see, yes, remote workers were a

[1:49:25] thing for a period of time. They've declined. I see that as a potential

[1:49:32] cliff um for any municipality or region that tries to go in that direction

[1:49:38] because currently uh for various grants and uh programs if

[1:49:45] you're trying to get state federal MEDC monies they have scorecards for how many

[1:49:53] employers you have in a given area what is your housing portfolio and other

[1:49:57] metrics that don't um have any accounting for

[1:50:02] remote workers. So, >> uh for a project like lot O, if we're

[1:50:07] trying to redevelop that with Homestart into housing, they check a box by saying

[1:50:12] it's in a downtown area and downtown is defined as 29 consecutive storefronts

[1:50:18] along uh one or two main streets. Um it they also check a box by saying you have

[1:50:24] x number of employers over 50 employees. They check another box by saying you

[1:50:29] have one employer over 500. That employer is Hagerty.

[1:50:34] And we don't have 500 people day in day out at Hagerty. But because the numbers

[1:50:41] and haven't been changed to account for how remote work is actually processed,

[1:50:47] that still shows up as 500 employees. If they do change, we don't automatically

[1:50:54] get credit for um remote workers that are working somewhere else but are in

[1:50:58] our community because they're not at a single job site or in a central area,

[1:51:04] which would mean more people going to your local cafe for on their lunch

[1:51:10] break. More people that will have um happy hours at the same time that will

[1:51:15] similarly spend money in the local area. people shopping at the same grocery

[1:51:20] stores.

[1:51:23] » Thank you. May I last word? >> Sure. Um just a little one here. Um so

[1:51:29] first and foremost, um I'm actually going to save the two words for the last

[1:51:32] part. I don't disagree with anything that's been said, but a couple other

[1:51:35] thoughts on it. Um but building on the specialized manufacturing sector um

[1:51:41] there's and it was been said that this is a regional and it is but I think this

[1:51:45] is also a matter of recognizing you know the comments been brought up a couple

[1:51:50] times now what if we hired somebody and made it out had us a clearing house to

[1:51:54] help people through application processes da da da da that it is a good

[1:51:58] idea and networks Northwest does it NMCAA does it Michigan Works does it

[1:52:01] there's a lot of groups doing it that we could probably partner with to bring in

[1:52:04] and have them have a day at the governmental center, things like that.

[1:52:06] But I I come back to this because Michigan Works, Networks Northwest,

[1:52:10] MMTC, there's a lot of organizations here that are working on the

[1:52:14] manufacturing aspect that again when we're talking about our soft power or

[1:52:17] we're talking having conversations, I think it's important for us to be more

[1:52:21] aware of who's out doing what and that those are more uh like MMTC is more and

[1:52:27] Michigan works to a point are more manufacturing based, but there's a lot

[1:52:29] of organizations out there that are very collective already that are trying to

[1:52:34] help move these conversations about jobs. We just when we renewed our um

[1:52:38] Traverse Connect contract, part of the conversation was the bigger conversation

[1:52:42] that started to happen with Travers Connect, all the businesses

[1:52:44] participating is what are we doing about wages and how are we going to make those

[1:52:48] sustainable? I know that the you know they they just got that grant for the

[1:52:53] offsetting the the rent, but I will say this, it might only be 50 people. I was

[1:52:57] talking to a nurse who's my friend's girlfriend and he used to live here.

[1:53:01] He's moved too because of job reasons and I said, "Yeah, you know, for the

[1:53:04] first couple first couple of years if because of this, if you wanted to come

[1:53:07] take your nursing degree from Milwaukee and move to Traverse City, there's this

[1:53:11] rent benefit." And that was something that piqued her interest and she wanted

[1:53:14] to look at because the reality is it's not just our service workers looking for

[1:53:17] affordable housing. It's our teachers, it's our fire department, our firemen,

[1:53:21] it's our, you know, police officers. It's not a you know that there's a very

[1:53:25] wide spectrum of people and so to that end about the remote workers the other

[1:53:30] thing about remote working now is where it is remaining they're paying national

[1:53:35] average not Silicon Valley prices anymore. So again, that's not a terrible

[1:53:39] thing if you're saying, "Hey, we have high speeded internet for TCLP, so move

[1:53:43] here instead of Paskki or move here instead of, you know, a smaller

[1:53:47] community in the region where we are more of a year-round economy." And it is

[1:53:50] something to talk about, but I don't think it's something we have to lean

[1:53:52] hard into. Um, because there are a lot of people out doing this work as part of

[1:53:57] our regional I agree with what everybody said about it being a regional solution,

[1:54:00] but I think there's a lot of regional work being done on it. We just need to

[1:54:03] educate ourselves better and be louder proponents in that sector as well. Um,

[1:54:07] and then the other part that I was going to talk about is the tourism. And I I

[1:54:12] hear a lot and I know it come it came through at some of the sessions and and

[1:54:15] everything else. And I'm not saying it's wrong at all. To David's point, you're

[1:54:20] seeing it out in Detroit for Pure Michigan and come to Trevor City and you

[1:54:23] don't want anybody to come. I was born and raised here. My mom was born and

[1:54:27] raised here. Trevor City is a tourist economy. We shouldn't rely on it. It

[1:54:31] shouldn't be built to be bigger on that. But people do come. And so where we need

[1:54:36] to do better, I think, is engaging with Traverse City Tourism and other people

[1:54:39] who are in it. I think the sometimes knee-jerk negative response and tone

[1:54:44] that people some people have or we have kind of as these conversations or even

[1:54:47] the kind of sarcasm as part of some of these conversations isn't going to

[1:54:51] benefit us long run. We know that frankly they're an organization that

[1:54:54] brings a lot of people together. They're two of our counties, ours and Benzy now.

[1:54:58] And also I mean they have a pot of money. We know that there the tax the

[1:55:04] bed tax that gets assessed right now is not ours, it's theirs. And so I think

[1:55:08] that there's more I've seen over the last few years a much more of a

[1:55:12] willingness from them to come and say, you know, what do what do you guys what

[1:55:15] are we doing? What do we need? And so to that end, I think that there's that

[1:55:20] conversation that still needs to happen on a bigger scale and a more earnest

[1:55:22] scale. And the other thing I would say really quickly is unfortunately when we

[1:55:26] talk about the tourist tax, you would think that we'd all be united in that

[1:55:29] and then every time something comes or when I I testified in Lancing about

[1:55:32] that. Um there's a lot of municipalities and townships that say, "Well, we don't

[1:55:37] want to tax because they might not come people might not come here because of

[1:55:40] our city tax or our local tax and they'll go to the next jurisdiction

[1:55:44] over." I think we in Traverse City know that's not an issue, but we also have to

[1:55:47] bring I don't think that conversation that it's a bigger conversation that we

[1:55:50] also I think have to use our influence on a little bit more because I don't

[1:55:53] think it's the gimme that everybody thinks it is outside of Southeast

[1:55:56] Michigan. So that's kind of my brain dump on all of that. But so I think as

[1:56:01] far as budget alignment, there's not a ton of budget alignment for us on that.

[1:56:04] I think the investment in Traverse Connect helping us bring some of the

[1:56:07] jobseeking and and um focus on different economies is good. Um, but I think we

[1:56:11] can all do it's a much more soft influence item even though it's huge.

[1:56:17] » Okay. Thank you. Good final say. Um, so next steps. So this has been fantastic,

[1:56:23] right? To be able to >> 5:30 on the nose.

[1:56:25] » I know. >> Yeah.

[1:56:27] » So I want to give you a minute for questions as well, but I just just like

[1:56:30] next steps on this, right? Obviously, we wanted to give you a chance to kind of

[1:56:33] just really talk from your kind of core about your reaction to to these ideas

[1:56:38] that the community generated. Um, I think this provides a lot of kind of

[1:56:43] overlay and nuance. Um, and what Benjamin and I have been talking about

[1:56:47] is that our next step is we want to take basically each one of these pillars and

[1:56:51] work it up as here as a I guess a proposition for how the budgeting and

[1:56:57] the programming in the city could evolve to get closer to it right now. We're

[1:57:01] looking 3 to 5 years out. So, it's not like, you know, January it all flips,

[1:57:05] right? It's but it's going to get us onto a trajectory. Um, and I think

[1:57:09] there's a really interesting set of layers in here of like kind of hard

[1:57:12] budget and and sort of program issues, but there's a lot that you talked about

[1:57:16] that's really about your voice and influence. And I think that sort of may

[1:57:20] get expressed in sort of values and, you know, sort of the the key objectives and

[1:57:25] um some of those things, not necessarily straight into hard sort of key results,

[1:57:29] but we'll we'll work on that. And I think the next time we come together,

[1:57:32] it'll be getting you to react to that. Um, this is still a little bit draft

[1:57:36] because we have a couple of commissions still to finish the survey and I know

[1:57:40] one of the candidates did it between I downloaded the data this morning and

[1:57:43] today, right? So, we'll see whether we can get the additional candidates to

[1:57:47] complete that. Um, but I think this was a cracking good start to that

[1:57:50] conversation. So, Benjamin, thank you for helping put this together.

[1:57:53] » Thank you. And I want to thank Colleen Pavllio, too, for all of her work uh all

[1:57:56] along the way. And I just want to say how much I appreciate the conversation

[1:58:01] that the commission had. The amount of uh context and perspective that you

[1:58:04] shared I think is helpful and will I hope give us something to come back to

[1:58:09] you with that you can help us make sure that we're uh distilling what you're

[1:58:14] saying in the way that you meant it. So thank you very much.

[1:58:17] » So we are this is a meeting and I want to give people a chance to have their

[1:58:20] voice. Um we do have a meeting at 7 o'clock tonight. So, I'm going to ask

[1:58:24] with kindness that we do two minutes public comment if anybody wants to. Um,

[1:58:28] we are going to be have continuing this conversation. This is the very very

[1:58:32] first look and very first reactions. There's potential for another survey.

[1:58:36] There's going to be more discussions on each pillar as we talked about. There's

[1:58:39] going to be um just a lot more discussions. This is a first glance. We

[1:58:43] want to hear if anybody has any overall thoughts kind of like where we're at of

[1:58:46] our impressions. But I also um would ask that kind of kind of keep that to your

[1:58:52] first reactions and not worry that because you heard something here, it's

[1:58:54] inherently what you have to talk us out of because I think there's a lot of a

[1:58:57] lot of big conversations that are h are happening and ultimately it's going to

[1:59:01] be another body too that does some of this. So, uh Sarah has her portable mic.

[1:59:05] I think someone will just if could somebody could just bring it over to our

[1:59:07] audience and people just raise your hands if you want it

[1:59:10] » uh want to speak and share any information.

[1:59:13] » The only thing I ask is that you state your name for me.

[1:59:16] » Yes.

[1:59:20] first. >> Oh, see I said

[1:59:23] » I said two minutes and I scared everybody. We can You can have three if

[1:59:26] you're home and have a dinner. >> Yeah, right. We're all hungry.

[1:59:30] » Oh, yeah. I didn't pack pizza. >> All right. Well, we look forward to

[1:59:34] seeing a lot of engaged people here. We look forward to seeing I'm sure not all

[1:59:37] of you, but all of our future conversations and um again

[1:59:43] your thank you do anything else? No. Okay, I'm

[1:59:47] going to adjourn this meeting for anybody who wants a part two. 7 o'clock

[1:59:49] tonight.

Traverse City Commission Study Session - 9/8/2025

Transcript