[0:06] The meeting for tonight of the Planning Commission for Upper Providence Township, and the first thing on the agenda tonight is we need to introduce our newest member, Blair.

[0:17] I wish I didn't do that.

[0:20] Intervalent.

[0:21] Laird Intervalent.

[0:22] So welcome.

[0:23] I think you know everybody.

[0:25] Do you mean it?

[0:26] We do.

[0:27] Brian and Jen.

[0:28] I met Brian and I met Jen.

[0:29] Hi.

[0:30] I used to meet.

[0:31] Mr. Jerry, I used to do this to a few.

[0:33] Yeah.

[0:34] All right.

[0:35] So I'm welcome.

[0:36] And welcome.

[0:38] Thank you.

[0:40] So I'm going to look at Jen now.

[0:42] First thing would be to move.

[0:43] I want you to approve this agenda, which is certainly a one applicant tonight, but this

[0:49] agenda will be approved tonight on the motion to approve this.

[0:54] I pause the motion.

[0:56] I'll second it.

[0:56] You're the second.

[0:57] I'll favor it.

[0:58] All right.

[0:59] All right.

[1:00] Okay.

[1:00] Then we'll take public comment on any non-agenda items.

[1:05] In a minute.

[1:06] Again, the agenda.

[1:07] No, there are.

[1:07] Next.

[1:09] Oh, I see.

[1:09] I'm sorry.

[1:10] I missed it.

[1:11] Um, non-gen items, any, uh, any, uh, anybody here to talk about something that's not

[1:17] on the agenda?

[1:18] It doesn't look like it, so we'll move on.

[1:21] So next we'll be approved in August 5th, meeting minutes, which are attached to the packet.

[1:28] And, uh,

[1:31] you've, uh, gone through them, and they had no real comments at this point.

[1:36] We'll take the motion to approve the minutes from August the 5th.

[1:45] So I think commission from August 15th.

[1:56] He knows from the 19th, which was our last meeting,

[2:01] we did not have a forum.

[2:03] So we just, oh, we have some discussions.

[2:06] So we had, we don't have to talk about the necessary.

[2:08] I just really wanted to include the packets

[2:10] of the Debra there.

[2:11] Yeah, but we had so many present, the core loss presented,

[2:15] but we couldn't vote on anything.

[2:17] But they did present their, your plan

[2:20] that they'll be coming back.

[2:21] Sometimes you actually don't win. No, okay. So the Overwatch will be coming back. That's the one I don't know rigid pipe, by the way.

[2:30] What's the flag? The flag should come out.

[2:33] Well, the flag that follows the flag.

[2:36] Flag, well, that's whatever it is.

[2:39] So we don't have the vote on that, and we'll move down to the application that Jeff sent it out this week.

[2:46] Did you fix my...

[2:48] Yes, that should be fixed. Actually, what I don't have up here is we do have to acknowledge that we've received two plans.

[2:56] One is listed here. The other one is not. The first one is we received the official application for the Cypress Place at Worcester Baptist.

[3:03] Remember we've had discussions with them. They are made a couple times.

[3:05] I was going to bring them. Yep, they've got an actual application.

[3:08] They get that in process. We'll start with the resounding or the zoning tax amendment. We'll go from there.

[3:14] and then we also just today received a minor subdivision for a tract on McDable of a McDade north of Egypt road.

[3:25] Oh, okay.

[3:26] It's a minor subdivision, there's one house there, they're taking off a lot of it in the other house.

[3:31] Okay, so I don't have to plan there, but you'll see them go out tomorrow when I formally process the applications.

[3:37] And then the church and the cypress place any day on that now

[3:44] We have to sort of get into the plans first in the end of revisions

[3:50] No, come to us first, yeah, and we'll look at the zoning text amendment first, okay, and then we'll talk to them about that

[3:56] And we'll see if the board wants to hear the next

[3:58] Okay,

[4:02] is it time to update from the supervisor immediately on the car wash down on BlackRock?

[4:10] Let's do that at the end.

[4:11] Okay.

[4:12] Discussions of future genitis.

[4:14] Okay.

[4:15] Then we'll move on to the applicant to be heard tonight.

[4:19] As our friends, they're from Fox Lane.

[4:21] They would hear what two months ago?

[4:24] Few months ago?

[4:24] Yes.

[4:25] It was a couple months ago.

[4:27] Greg Edelman here again on behalf of Fox Lane.

[4:29] and I'm here with John Morrissey and John Raffin from Foxland.

[4:33] You know Jeff with Brian and Jan.

[4:35] Good to see you.

[4:36] So when we were here in July,

[4:38] we were talking about the rich bank potential rezoning

[4:41] and there were some issues that were brought up

[4:43] by the planning commission that we spent some time looking

[4:45] into and hopefully providing some additional information

[4:49] to the planning commission for your consideration and player.

[4:51] We will highlight some of the stuff

[4:53] that we talked about again through this presentation.

[4:55] So that hopefully will give you a little bit of background

[4:58] grant information so you're not completely without some background in terms of what we're

[5:04] out of here.

[5:04] But the issues that we had talked about at the last meeting that were raised was whether

[5:09] we could add in more active adult homes, there was also some questions with respect to school

[5:14] impacts as a result of school age kids, children, and the potential residential portion of the mixed

[5:21] youth development.

[5:22] Also, obviously impact on traffic and one of the other questions that came up was dealing

[5:27] with retail and commercial and whether we could add more retail and or also have a connection

[5:32] and Jerry I think that was your comment with respect to commercial and whether the

[5:38] residential was too close to existing retail.

[5:40] So we've looked at all of those issues.

[5:42] We have a presentation that Joe's going to walk us through who's going to tell you what

[5:46] Fox Lane has looked at.

[5:48] John's going to jump in on some of the issues as well.

[5:50] So if we could just take it through and then as we get to the end obviously again get your

[5:57] reactions, your comments, your questions, where we would like to end up today, I believe

[6:02] we're scheduled to be in front of the board later in September or later this month,

[6:06] right Jeff?

[6:06] Yeah.

[6:07] I think that's correct.

[6:08] So we'd really be looking to get some type of input from the planning commission to send

[6:13] to the board so that we can do the same presentation to them and also hopefully create enough support

[6:19] of the board to move forward into the retuning type of a situation where we'd start drafting

[6:25] to try to put something in place, assuming a planning commission and the board are on board

[6:30] with respect to doing something to change to the core of the zoning.

[6:34] So Joe, at this point, if you want to come in and take it from there, and I think we can

[6:39] go to the next slide.

[6:43] Thanks, Greg.

[6:45] Thank you very much for having us again.

[6:48] So once again, just for Blair, my name's Joe Morse, I'm one of the principals at Foxley

[6:54] homes, what I would call local on-gover based in Fort Washington, we typically build about

[6:59] a hundred homes a year in the Philadelphia suburbs, anywhere from towns, and we break the

[7:03] single families and doors town and raddener and kind of all over the between.

[7:08] John Rathins, our vice president of land development, so he's the one between the two of us that

[7:13] does all the temperature meetings and approvals and site work and all the other good stuff

[7:17] that kind of goes with it.

[7:18] So we had a chance to go back and forth with Township staff and that's what kind

[7:24] of got us to the first plan when we were here in the coastal life first.

[7:27] So roughly two months ago, and I think we all kind of left there.

[7:31] I thought we had some really good discussion back and forth, but we left there

[7:33] and they can hate, like, this is a good plan, but we could probably make it better.

[7:37] And great kind of touched on some of the key points, but just for, where mostly,

[7:41] but maybe I'll just take the first five minutes to kind of tell you kind of how we got here.

[7:46] The three parcels that we have under agreement, right there along Main Street, to kind of

[7:50] Main Street to the bottom of the page, Township Line to your left, Greenwood is kind of

[7:55] to the right.

[7:56] And then the power lines are kind of running kind of straight through it.

[8:00] The three parcels together represent 50.39 acres.

[8:05] So this is the first time that we've ever had all three parcels come in in front of a province.

[8:10] I think there's been times in the past where one, maybe two of the parcels have come in.

[8:15] But this is the first time that we've ever had a chance to be able to take all three parcels

[8:19] Connect them and be able to connect it into the you know the retail and then also to the rest of the time show

[8:36] So

[8:38] I'm not sure if it was in 2024, but it's called the 2024

[8:42] Providence comprehensive plan

[8:43] A really really good plan. It kind of lays out population growth housing types

[8:50] what the problem has been, what they're looking to be.

[8:54] So our group has spent the last six months spending a lot of time on this comprehensive plan.

[9:00] It is really good because it's, I think it's an answer sheet.

[9:03] It's a really good guy to kind of let people see what could work in this township.

[9:09] One of the big things that came out of the content of the comprehensive plan

[9:12] is it says Main Street is identified as one of only three development zones.

[9:16] So in the upper right where you kind of see the bright red, that's the area that we're

[9:21] talking about now, which is kind of that neighborhood convenience commercial.

[9:28] So one of the comments on here, unfortunately, it's good enough, but I kind of highlighted

[9:33] the yellow, but this came directly from your comprehensive plan, it says, rezoning for neighborhood

[9:38] convenience commercial is recommended with new zoning that creates a flexibility of uses

[9:42] with a potential residential commercial and office, with a residential being closer to

[9:47] existing residential and commercial, you're commercial. So almost kind of a

[9:51] mixed-use zoning potential and that's why, you know, we're doing township staff

[9:56] and then kind of with our planners trying to come up with a good plan that we

[9:59] think would kind of work for everybody.

[10:04] Blow it up a little bit as you're kind of

[10:06] coming through Ridge Pike and May Street. Once again, township to your

[10:09] township line to your left, Greenwood to your far right kind of trap burrow to your

[10:13] far right there's roughly either 50 or 51 properties that make up kind of

[10:18] that you know NC zoning as you kind of go through there. When you start a touch

[10:24] of line kind of moving back for the first mile you definitely have some

[10:28] development maybe it's half mile. Once you get past kind of the target the storage

[10:33] area there especially on the left side it just becomes a lot more less dense,

[10:40] less development and I think talking to the township staff and looking at it, there's

[10:45] an opportunity to do something pretty cool there that might be a good little step

[10:51] instead of being kind of a revitalization of that whole kind of mainstream rich buying.

[10:56] So our hope is that we can be the ones to kind of get that process going.

[11:04] Other kind of key points of the comprehensive plan, it just talks about redevelopment should

[11:08] be directed to areas where infrastructure already exists, which obviously rich buying

[11:12] township line, proximity to 422. The big thing, what I'll probably spend more time on tonight

[11:18] is the housing diversity, needs to accommodate changing demographics in aging residents. I think

[11:24] we had a really good conversation back and forth, whether it'd be more age restricted, do we do more,

[11:30] kind of stuff I would call affordable, or first time home buyers, first time moved buyers, do you want

[11:35] You know families and the way the plan is kind of laid out is it's very interchangeable

[11:39] and I if it's me personally I'm recommending four different assets that I think would

[11:44] would all work here and then just wanted to kind of get your thoughts on what you like didn't like

[11:49] and then we'll kind of go through it but um towards the end of it I'll spend a lot more time on the

[11:53] housing and even bringing down the monthly payments of the different product because so much

[11:58] help raises you look at go go but then when you really like what does it really cost to to live there

[12:03] And then I thought that what do you need to make to be able to live there?

[12:06] So being able to kind of look at that to say, hey, hope you're making good decisions for us and for the township.

[12:11] And then the third thing, which I'll just highlight the yellow line, it says, however the zoning neighborhood commutes commercial NC is limited to primarily retail uses, which in time of publication has been a weak development market.

[12:24] Out of those three properties that we have tied up, the one on the left has been under agreement, or should say the agreement has been owned for roughly 38 years.

[12:32] One of the middles is 10 and the one on the far right is probably 4.

[12:36] All 38 years that the land seller owned their property, it's been marketed to potentially build and there's been a lot of opportunities to do something.

[12:43] Nothing's ever been done and mainly that's just based on the current zoning there.

[12:47] So coming up with something that could absolutely benefit the land seller, but then also benefit the township.

[12:52] Three separate properties, same owner, three separate properties, same owner, yeah exactly.

[13:00] So, just kind of more little tidbits from the conference and plan, just trying to, you know, kind of take a picture a little bit.

[13:08] So, when we were here last, when

[13:13] we were here last, this was kind of the plan that we looked at.

[13:16] So, I think just a quick kind of overview.

[13:19] Far right is the active adult carriages, kind of the 55 and over.

[13:24] Everything along which bike is the retail.

[13:27] We had a combination of three story, what I would call traditional town homes,

[13:31] and then three and four story stacked town homes,

[13:34] which is two units in a kind of one footprint.

[13:38] And then we have twins, which is the yellow in the back.

[13:42] Overall, we really liked a lot of things about this plan.

[13:45] We like kind of having the active adult kind of separate.

[13:48] We loved having the retail a long-range pike.

[13:52] We liked having the twins up against the existing

[13:55] single families.

[13:56] We thought it was just a good transition.

[13:58] The trails pretty much connect everything.

[14:00] And it's okay, can I just walk over to you guys here?

[14:03] I mean, if I do this way, the really kind of nice thing

[14:06] about this plan is you have the pico easement through here.

[14:11] We're showing trails all the way through with the active

[14:14] and dull, you have the pickleball courts, trails

[14:17] kind of coming up through here, through here.

[14:19] But realistically, you have the touch of easements

[14:21] and bones and ground up above.

[14:23] So be able to tie in kind of that part of upper province

[14:27] and literally be able to get them to be able

[14:29] would call me down here, down this way,

[14:31] potential retail here, connecting to the retail here.

[14:36] John will talk about it a little bit

[14:37] when we talk about some of our traffic analysis

[14:39] and stop late here and get people across this way.

[14:43] It couldn't make this very walkable

[14:45] not that you're walking through a park or anything like that,

[14:49] but it wouldn't be crazy to be able

[14:51] to connect different parts of the township

[14:53] and make it really kind of a really nice kind of walkable,

[14:56] especially if we figure out a way to get some

[14:58] and kind of sit down, brush, brush, and some...

[15:00] So, there was a lot of things we really liked about this plan, but the next plan, we liked it more.

[15:09] So, the comments for the last plan. So, here's your title, here's kind of rich play, kind of going through here, bank of the American kind of sits here. So, where the comments was, hey, how do we connect all of this? So, in this plan, we end up through the road connecting this way, and we showed the road connecting this way. We did talk to the owners of this property.

[15:30] They would have some interest in doing some kind of partnership on this side.

[15:34] Whether we have a partnership already, they like the idea of connecting both retail properties.

[15:40] So the thought process, obviously, they have the light there, but it would be very easy

[15:44] to be able to drive all our home owners, whether they're walking up to the beer store, or

[15:49] the personal fitness, or doing grocery shopping at Lighthouse.

[15:53] It could be a really nice convenience for all of that, and they don't actually really

[15:56] I should have landscaped that and kind of making it so us tied all this in to our retail.

[16:01] I think it actually be really nice.

[16:03] So that was number one.

[16:05] Number two, there was in sort of, we had residential down a long year.

[16:09] We took all that residential, we put the retail up through here to try to give a little bit

[16:13] of separation between the residential homes and the Lido.

[16:17] We ended up adding another 15,000 square feet of retail.

[16:22] So on the last plan, we had 45,000 square feet.

[16:25] I think a couple of board members that today we'd love to have some more retail.

[16:30] So we ended up doing additional retail by adding some additional stuff here, a bigger

[16:35] building here, still incorporating kind of this open space.

[16:40] I'll talk about a little bit later to have a blow up other, but that could be whether

[16:44] you have Friday, 6 o'clock yoga class or you get a little farmer's market, I'd hear it

[16:52] doesn't look that big.

[16:52] it's actually pretty good size where playing it yet in 60, 70, 80 people hanging out of your

[16:58] first small concert. You'd be able to do that. You'd have a sidewalk going all across

[17:04] Main Street kind of bridge pipe all the way this way and play a set before. So from that standpoint,

[17:11] we thought this worked. Now on this plan, we're showing all stack towns and one of the conversations is

[17:18] you know sometimes you need the residential to help drive the retail so we

[17:23] ended up going from roughly I think it was like 231 units to 256 units the

[17:29] footprints we added some buildings here but the footprints for the three

[17:33] story towns first the four-story stack towns they're both 24 Y by 50D so if

[17:41] for some reason we said hey we really love I'll go into more detail in the

[17:44] housing a little bit but we said hey we love to turn a couple of these stack

[17:46] into three-story town buildings, because that may be better for young families.

[17:51] We can interchange them either way to be able to make that work.

[17:55] So we have a little bit of flexibility to kind of play around with that.

[17:57] But ultimately active adults here, retail law here,

[18:02] were in vision kind of that sit-down restaurant, which I think township staff would say,

[18:06] this part of our proponents really doesn't have that place where you can go and have a sit-down restaurant

[18:10] and be able to grab a meal and a drink on a Friday night.

[18:13] So we envision trying to do something like that over here more than resident or the retail kind of similar

[18:19] Maybe what you see a little farther down this way on the other side a really nice boulevard as you kind of come up through

[18:25] And it's a nice separation

[18:26] But you get a little bit more height as you come in the neighborhood and then two story as you go back to transition

[18:32] Into the single family's

[18:37] whole area and get out of their development

[18:43] Technically to so

[18:45] Well, forget it, forget it's in the shopping center area.

[18:51] Yeah.

[18:52] So right here, kind of, we're clients at.

[18:55] Well, that's retail.

[18:57] Yeah, we would consider.

[18:58] Somebody comes out of the red.

[19:00] Yeah, that is more of a retail.

[19:02] I mean, I'm talking about all these.

[19:07] There's only a pair to be one exit.

[19:13] Going over the power lines from both directions.

[19:16] It's coming out into one major exit point.

[19:20] I'm going to go over to the right, right here.

[19:23] So I don't even necessarily need to focus in that area

[19:26] from all the residents.

[19:28] They don't want to deal with the retail stuff.

[19:33] They don't want to go into the shopping area.

[19:35] They just want to go out on the rich bank.

[19:38] So if they thought they just want a bond rich bank

[19:40] and they don't want to drive by the retail,

[19:42] they thought they'd come out here and come out this way.

[19:44] So all those homes.

[19:46] Yeah.

[19:46] Okay, the one pinnacle, and what are we going to do with that road traffic place?

[19:53] Where it comes out?

[19:54] Yeah, I probably disagree with you on that though.

[19:57] We always envision this being kind of more of a boulevard as you kind of go up in.

[20:02] Well, I don't see that.

[20:05] It was a boulevard, I mean.

[20:07] Yeah, this is a road coming down through here.

[20:11] And there must likely be a traffic light here.

[20:12] We call it a little bit wider.

[20:14] Exactly.

[20:15] Two lanes either way.

[20:17] It's going to be a little bit bigger

[20:17] because you have the retail component of it.

[20:20] But with the mix use, we can retail in the front of the

[20:22] residential and the back.

[20:23] We wouldn't envision anyone having an issue with the neighbors,

[20:27] you know, come out of his house here coming down this way

[20:29] and make it a right.

[20:31] And we don't have to.

[20:31] But people come into the retail area.

[20:34] And so he says, I don't care.

[20:36] I'm going to deal with that.

[20:37] I want to go somewhere else.

[20:38] I mean, I have real problems with this prep.

[20:41] Okay, fair enough. We do have a traffic analysis that we're happy to go through.

[20:49] So if you're a partner with Lyton, you're thinking, right? Definitely talking to them.

[20:56] They're open, they were open to say such for them. I wouldn't think what exactly they come to their store.

[21:02] But so they couldn't, so the yellow, the top of the top, the top policy, you know, just what the townhouse is, right?

[21:11] kind of been during the twins.

[21:12] Between, yep.

[21:13] They had to go out the back way,

[21:15] how through past life,

[21:18] almost kind of like behind by them.

[21:19] Exactly.

[21:20] And then this, that's a narrow two lane.

[21:23] I don't know what it's been.

[21:24] I've been sitting on the red dumpsters behind life.

[21:27] Yeah, I've got that.

[21:28] So you know what I'm talking about?

[21:29] And that's what it is.

[21:30] I actually drove there last night,

[21:32] and I spent about an hour just kind of a trip.

[21:34] They must have planned for when they get into

[21:36] two points, two lanes.

[21:38] But they actually have stop signs back there, too.

[21:40] and then they have a separate lane for the dumpsters where they have been blocked off separately.

[21:44] They've done a really good job.

[21:45] I'm not saying I think I meet personally, I think our homeowners would be totally fine coming down here.

[21:51] I don't think anyone would push back, but they thought that you have one access.

[21:54] If you wanted them, you'd have two access.

[21:56] If you wanted them to have the third access, you could have that as well.

[22:00] We, you know, with any kind of mix-use neighborhood, the benefit of living there is hey,

[22:05] you could potentially, on a Friday, come home and be able to walk to retail

[22:09] ingrab data here or potentially drop off your dry cleaning or you know let us

[22:15] get your hair done. That's the benefit of this kind of walkability. The

[22:19] trade-off of having to drive by the retail. I don't I don't think any of our

[22:22] homers we push back on that.

[22:25] What's the total number of units?

[22:28] It's 256. It's 256, it's 256. That says, you know, two cars. My

[22:42] big issue here is it

[22:44] doesn't seem to be much of a, and Ridge Pike is a danger, so a kind, or a climb road,

[22:53] there's more accidents on a climb road right there, right where the, where the retail is,

[22:58] Township Line, and if you go a little further down, Penny Packer is down there.

[23:04] So, this one's ahead, I had a big problem with the traffic.

[23:07] So, if it's fair, if we talk about traveling a little bit, just John will cover all the traffic

[23:11] stuff, and I'll let you be up on John, he'll have to go, he's a little better on the traffic

[23:15] I guess back then I am, it just gives like 10 minutes

[23:18] and we'll kind of get to the board.

[23:20] Any other questions on this play at our thought process?

[23:24] We need to kind of blow up here so you can kind of see

[23:26] the logo of the town center where the thought is

[23:28] that could be a place, kind of a gathering place.

[23:31] You know, people kind of hang out,

[23:33] find the retail, type of the residential,

[23:35] kind of into that mixed-use field.

[23:37] Does this kind of minor issue,

[23:39] but you mentioned being thick of all,

[23:41] I mean, how do I rate it?

[23:42] Yes, I'm the carriages here.

[23:51] Yes, the thought is these are age restricted

[23:55] So it's kind of that empty nest or buyer

[23:58] They're roughly what we call carriages first floor owners bedroom

[24:01] So one of two bedrooms on the first floor and one of two bedrooms on top at no more than three bedrooms

[24:06] But the expectation is those are all your moved out buyers. You

[24:15] waited sound fencing

[24:17] Sorry, yeah, sorry

[24:18] Yeah, we would probably do some additional landscaping and some of the other stuff

[24:23] We've done pickables in several of our neighborhoods.

[24:27] We haven't got any pushback yet on noise,

[24:30] but people don't want the noise out,

[24:32] so they're going to go to a different network

[24:34] and other developments, not in our township.

[24:38] People that have real problems.

[24:39] Really nice.

[24:41] Thanks for all the comments.

[24:42] Thank you.

[24:43] What did you say?

[24:44] If or somebody you guys want to go on board,

[24:46] it's up to you.

[24:47] Yeah, it's up to you.

[24:48] Yeah, it's up to you.

[24:54] We put any kind of open red that you want there, what you do, anything that you want.

[24:59] You have dog parks, you want, where do you want to go?

[25:03] The pickable is a nice idea, but yeah, the pickable is the most popular.

[25:12] The pickable would be private to the development, and also they would be lit at night, so they

[25:17] you know, it wouldn't be able to be used at night. So when it is your own

[25:21] residences and attempts to alleviate problems, they'd have with the place, but like

[25:26] Jeff said, any amount of need would be acceptable, just here for feedback.

[25:32] So Jeff, you might go down one more time. This was just kind of an idea. This is a

[25:39] project over at Lane Wharton. This is Ellis Deserve, down in Newtown Square, but

[25:44] we're just trying to give an idea between kind of the open space, the retail,

[25:47] know, potentially having some restaurants and some kind of sit-down seating.

[25:53] We could see that there may be some kind of metal, little emergency services, doctors

[25:59] office, those kinds of things in the retail side of the property.

[26:05] And then just to kind of show it on a bigger scale, so this is the light up here, that's kind

[26:11] of the shops at Upper Brock, and then we just kind of laid out exactly, which we showed

[26:15] on the plan, but where the two entries is, which is the road you're talking about in

[26:18] the back, that actually takes through, but it is interesting, they definitely plan for

[26:22] you kind of see the pull of our as you go up, and there's stop signs back there, which

[26:26] in all the time I've been doing this, I've never seen that before, but obviously it was

[26:30] pretty well thought out before that they must have figured that they were going to have

[26:34] people drive in that way.

[26:40] I'll put it back on that, when that development came in, we made them put in a row design

[26:49] tantrum standards back there for a connection between township line down and climber down

[26:55] the padbacker.

[26:56] It's generally official map.

[26:58] We talk about it on the official map.

[27:00] It's designed to be the relief row for that portion of replaying.

[27:03] Does that make sense for a library?

[27:05] Sure.

[27:05] So that or not, it works with their development.

[27:08] That's another question.

[27:09] And we have to work through that process.

[27:11] Well, that was the plan for the library,

[27:14] and trust me, it shops up in problems, retail sites.

[27:16] It was an argument.

[27:18] I don't know, a couple of years.

[27:19] So that makes sense.

[27:20] So ultimately, where we just try to drive the point across,

[27:24] that one way or another, we'll figure out a way to be able to connect

[27:27] to the current Johnson Center to make that all seem

[27:30] There's like one larger project and then when we knew last time we just had a

[27:36] become with kind of like a third potential option. This really is very similar to

[27:41] option number two on the right side. If for some reason the temperature today we

[27:46] don't want that much retail. We like less retail. We would have to put town homes on

[27:50] kind of the right side as well. That means 292 homes and back to 45,000 square feet of

[27:55] retail. We think and we think the tablet likes would like version two better or go

[28:01] option two which is absolutely less units or retail so I wasn't going to spend

[28:06] too much time on that unless somebody felt very strongly but our thought is

[28:09] option two is probably our best best option at this point.

[28:17] So the last thing I'm

[28:19] going to kind of touch on and then I'll turn it over to John to talk through kind

[28:24] of the traffic, and the fiscal, and all the school age info.

[28:28] Like, one of the comments in the comprehensive play

[28:32] and which I was just going to read it said,

[28:33] a broad cross section of the price he will allow

[28:35] for entry level first time home buyers, families,

[28:37] and anti-nastures to have a place

[28:39] to accommodate changes in lifestyle economics

[28:41] and housing needs without going out of the township.

[28:44] So we spent a little time in the housing the last time,

[28:47] but we didn't spend a ton of time on the housing.

[28:49] And when I talked to our group, and it just got to be,

[28:53] I mean, like full disclosure, other provinces, a great township, a lot of people want to live here.

[28:59] You can put a lot of different housing types here, and it would do well.

[29:03] You just have to figure out what's the right one that works for you, that will work for the neighbors,

[29:08] that I've still ultimately works for the land seller, and try to come up with something that both of

[29:12] the works for everybody.

[29:13] So, when we talk through products, the four that I thought all could work here,

[29:18] Jeff, you might go down one more time was what we call a three or four stories

[29:24] stack townhome. So with a stack townhome there are either three or four stories.

[29:31] There's two homes per building. So the first unit is kind of the first two

[29:36] floors and then the second unit is directly above it. You need to get a second and

[29:41] third floor. It could be the third or fourth floor. If anyone, because the second

[29:45] Counts are, I wouldn't say new, but they're newer, especially in this area.

[29:49] I have some floor plans that I could show you at the end if you want to kind of understand

[29:52] how it works, but usually the lower units, two bedrooms, the upper units, three bedrooms,

[29:57] they're not giant, they're roughly 1,600 square feet.

[30:01] We would expect that the average sales price of our estate out to be roughly $460,000, that we have one-car koragge is, I each would have one car.

[30:13] So because it's $24 by 50 it's each one-car koragge of the back, almost I get two stories out, and I said they'd be an algorithm for that.

[30:21] And so you can kind of see how it all works. This is primarily what we consider our entry level for time home buyer.

[30:28] you might get some, you know, some singles that could be between, you know, 35 and 45, but historically it's kind of that actually level first time on buyer.

[30:40] I just heard something the other day, the NHP came out with in 2025, the average age of the first time on buyer is 35.

[30:49] Ten years ago, that was like 28.

[30:52] So a lot of different reasons, pricing, you know, people get married later, all the other stuff.

[30:56] But, you know, when we look at it, you know, our sales reps are really, what's the monthly payment?

[31:01] Like, 460 sounds great, but what interest rates are at 6 and 3.25% and I have 20% down.

[31:07] And a lot of times that might be coming from parents or gift or something else.

[31:12] You know, what's really affordable?

[31:14] So, I put that out on there too.

[31:16] So, a roughly monthly payment, which is taxes, monthly HIV, everything to live in one of these units

[31:23] it should probably spend in $3,200 a month to live there.

[31:28] What's the height of each day units?

[31:30] So anywhere from 35 to, like, 43 feet high.

[31:35] That's

[31:38] our typical residential scratch

[31:42] for this,

[31:43] so to do it, what we'd be writing is only

[31:46] more than scratch, essentially, to do this.

[31:48] So if that's the part of it, then we agree

[31:50] that they could put there, that would be the high.

[31:52] So right now it's 35.

[31:54] Generally, yes, our ordinance allowed for 35 feet forward.

[31:59] I would have to look, maybe it's different for a staff townhouse that we just approved.

[32:04] Over there.

[32:05] It could be different for that item.

[32:07] I don't remember that kind of detail.

[32:08] I don't know.

[32:13] There's a very interesting question.

[32:14] Joe, who is, I know you said, Cinco 35,

[32:21] the second, the second, the third-fourth forward.

[32:32] I mean, it's a lot of state.

[32:34] So I did my first town of Mayburn in Urbana, Maryland in 1999.

[32:40] Back then, I thought it was more of an affordability because it got you to a lower price point.

[32:45] It was lower than the town else.

[32:47] What happens is once you have a stroller, you're probably not going to the second floor.

[32:52] But anyone that's just married, you know, until you kind of have your first kid, now we had people with

[32:59] thrillers, but because you're going on two levels of stairs with your groceries,

[33:03] stroller, anything else, you know, usually it's somebody, you know, a little bit younger,

[33:09] that's okay with taking the steps, but I understand that. I guess even a younger person,

[33:13] I don't see why they were going to do the same thing. You have experience, I don't, yeah, it's not, it's not a criticism,

[33:19] it's more of just, I don't understand somebody wants to do that.

[33:22] It's almost a little bit kind of evening of whether it's in New York City or Philly and these

[33:26] walk-ups, whether the three, four, five stories. You know when I was about 20s I lived in DC and

[33:31] lived on the fourth floor and walked up the staffs and so it's more of a nice out. The wind here

[33:36] with that kind of mix use is because you're kind of trading the location and maybe the compromise

[33:41] of having to walk up some staffs, but having everything so convenient that you could park your car

[33:45] on Friday night and walk to some things and jump on some trails and see much stuff.

[33:49] So, yeah, I agree, that's not true, I think.

[33:52] And they've given that to you saying it's a takeoff.

[33:55] It's a little bit of a takeoff here.

[33:56] Plus, you can do a little lower price point,

[33:58] which you'll see when I show you the towns.

[33:59] Yeah, it's $6.7, right?

[34:01] It's $6.7, for sure.

[34:02] Right.

[34:03] Oh, no.

[34:06] Jeff, do you mind going to the three stories, though?

[34:08] So then you go kind of the three story towns,

[34:11] which is more your traditional, which

[34:12] would you see all over kind of the Philadelphia suburbs.

[34:16] But then you're three bedrooms, two

[34:17] have to three bathrooms. Now you're 22 hundred to 27 50 square feet with

[34:23] optional roof decks for the lifestyle stamp. We can expect to have a shell

[34:27] space of these being closer to 585,000. Now you go from the one car garage now you

[34:31] went to the two car garages. You're still going to have first time home buyers, you're

[34:35] going to have some young families and then you're going to have some I put signals but

[34:39] whether it's divorced, whether it's you know somebody in their late 30s or

[34:43] in the early 40s that hasn't married yet.

[34:46] So I've built thousands of towns between Washington,

[34:49] to see it in the early summers over the last 25 years.

[34:52] It's a great product.

[34:53] Works for a lot of different buyers.

[34:55] Once you get to a certain age,

[34:56] obviously the three stories down in the steps,

[34:58] kind of the same thing because you'll walk

[34:59] with the bedrooms, but it's a great product.

[35:02] Now in today's market, 20% down,

[35:05] 63 quarters interest rate.

[35:06] That's a 4,059 payment a month.

[35:09] So, kind of think that we're, you know, kind of catching up a little bit from the 3300 up to the 4,000.

[35:18] Next up are what we call kind of a two-story twin town hell.

[35:23] We make them, they look like single families.

[35:26] They would be two of these attached, we're just showing them one.

[35:29] Now you're going from, you know, three or four bedrooms, same thing, two and a half to three and a half bathrooms.

[35:34] 2016, 5th unit, 2015, 2015, 15 square feet,

[35:38] optional finish placement.

[35:40] Every sale's place is close to 725,000,

[35:43] two cargo Rodgers, 1st single buyers,

[35:46] single over adults,

[35:48] and then you get down to that one down buyer,

[35:50] kind of the empty nester,

[35:51] but they talk about a lot of not even a comprehensive man.

[35:54] Here we look at you estimated monthly employment,

[35:56] close to like $5,000 a month,

[35:58] so now you're kind of ratched up.

[36:01] What I will tell you is the twins in the fairly suburbs

[36:03] now are super popular because you get two story living, you know, I have all the steps.

[36:09] You get option to finish off your basement, which gives you a lot of extra square footage.

[36:12] Our homes live like a single family.

[36:15] If you look at it within a mile of our site, WB did a neighborhood, total brothers did a neighborhood,

[36:20] and the total brothers is the other side of making sure you do their new neighborhood.

[36:24] But when you look at kind of what WB and Toul have done, I mean, ever since the price of those

[36:29] houses are anywhere from like a billion to up to like a million, six, seven.

[36:33] We've heard, we've heard.

[36:34] Yeah.

[36:34] So now all of a sudden, you can get some good square footage.

[36:37] Maybe you can't quite afford that single family yet.

[36:40] But now you can get kind of these twin owned.

[36:43] You only have some of them on one side, so you know, a little bit more privacy.

[36:46] It just is a really good product.

[36:48] Anywhere we've built it, they've always done really well.

[36:50] Customers always really like it.

[36:52] So from that standpoint, that's the twin.

[36:55] And then the last one we have to go is our active adult,

[36:58] which this would be only for $55,000.

[37:01] Same thing, three bedrooms, two bathrooms,

[37:04] three bathrooms.

[37:05] Now you're $2,650 square feet up to $32,000 square feet.

[37:09] Most of the living, those on the first floor,

[37:12] optional finish basements.

[37:14] We expect the average sales price to be $125,000,

[37:17] two car barrages.

[37:19] Here, you're all without buyers,

[37:21] empty nesters.

[37:22] Everybody that wants to stay close to the kids and the grandkids.

[37:25] And what we're seeing now is everybody that's moved away and went south not everybody, but a lot of our buyers.

[37:31] So this is our neighborhood in Bluebell, which was very successful.

[37:34] We probably sold four or five a month for, you know, close to 12 months, so we were sold out.

[37:40] And we probably didn't sell seven or eight every month.

[37:42] But we just can't build them that quick, so we were kind of that four or five a month.

[37:46] But a lot of our buyers in there ended up being people that had relocated and then had come back.

[37:51] Or it sold to bigger houses.

[37:53] But so it's kind of the same thing, it's that, you know, when you look at the population

[37:57] trends and what's kind of put out of our province, that's the point we thought the active

[38:03] dome, the pretty active dome component into this neighborhood would make a lot of sense.

[38:11] Eight questions about the plans or the house types before I turn it over to John to kind

[38:17] of get into that.

[38:19] Good stuff.

[38:20] Nice job.

[38:20] Okay.

[38:21] Thank you, guys.

[38:27] Good evening.

[38:28] and John Rafe from Fox News.

[38:30] So, one of the items we're asked to come back

[38:33] and talk about was school and backs.

[38:35] So, fortunate for us, the school district,

[38:37] just like we had the comprehensive plan

[38:39] and the challenge of the school district

[38:40] has done a bunch of comprehensive studies

[38:42] over the last two years, two in particular.

[38:45] They did either require improvements,

[38:47] their current facilities and future planning.

[38:50] One of the studies was done by GKL architects

[38:53] of feasibility study to see the condition

[38:56] of the existing facilities, what improvements were needed, and what was needed to keep up with the sustainability and population growth coming and everything of that nature.

[39:04] Second, went down by Sundance Consultants, there was more enrollment and projection of school age children that were needed to be served in the community moving forward.

[39:14] So similar to comprehensive plans, sort of the answers for us and all positive results.

[39:19] It did focus on a few things enrollment was first.

[39:23] So, based on the 2024 numbers was everything the studies were based off of, they had 8,092 children enrolled as K-12.

[39:33] With their district practice capacity call it, which is really the projected enrollment with growth, stability, and changes.

[39:41] They were expecting 10,754.

[39:45] So, they were the average projected enrollment was below capacity by about 2400.

[39:49] showed that there was plenty of area in the schools at the current time and with the

[39:54] improvements they had planned.

[39:56] The next was population, demographics, housing supply and housing stock.

[40:02] What really yielded was there a sea of decline in preschool and elementary school children

[40:06] and an increase in middle school and high school children.

[40:09] This was a result of the aging population with an increased median age and also elderly

[40:14] population, which is driving the younger school age children down. This is great, especially

[40:19] for this product. As judges mentioned with a lot of product, product we had a lot of them

[40:23] in the stack towns, the age restricted obviously doesn't have school age children, but the other

[40:27] products, products are teared at younger families first time home by our sayings of that, which

[40:32] really is where the school district is lacking, or has as a lower demand for the children. So that's

[40:38] good for that. The next is the utilization of the schools, isn't they really focused on?

[40:42] The school should be about 80 to 85% utilized, and that's to stay in growth as well.

[40:49] There is some rebalancing that needs to take place, thank you.

[40:53] There's some rebalancing that needs to take place, but right now Evans Elementary School

[40:58] is the school that this project would be feeding, it's about 76% utilized, so again, plenty

[41:04] of capacity.

[41:05] some of the schools are as low as 62% utilized and the highest is 94 so these

[41:14] studies all heard but the schools right now they can handle it and with the

[41:19] future that they're planning and the improvements they have planned there

[41:21] shouldn't be any issues. We did hire a fiscal plan ourselves just to check the

[41:28] data and also some type of physical. Most Eric Cartel is an AICP. His results, if you could

[41:36] scroll back a little more, sorry. His results are about twice as high as the school's results,

[41:41] but we just wanted to sort of fact check. So with option one and option two here, you can see

[41:48] this either one of those options would add in between 57 to 64 and have it broken down by the

[41:55] product types you can see where the children are coming from.

[41:58] If you look at the children per home at .29 to .44, that's well above the national average.

[42:05] I think our fiscal planner in the study was very conservative.

[42:10] Like I said, it's also about double what the school was predicting.

[42:13] Typically, the actual is around .25 children per home.

[42:18] So even at the high end of 57 to 64, the school can still handle that, which is a good thing

[42:24] here.

[42:25] So, including the schools, they can currently

[42:29] and are planning to accommodate this growth

[42:30] as well as other future growth.

[42:33] And then, right now, if you, you know,

[42:35] some people might say that the schools can't handle it,

[42:37] there are some older facilities in the school,

[42:40] they do need renovations, there is improvements

[42:42] that need to be done, but they're not improvements

[42:44] that need to be done, because there's a number of children.

[42:47] So, let's go to school, the fiscal impact,

[42:51] again, our proposal did this for us.

[42:53] And the way we break this down is we show the net fiscal impact.

[42:56] So we take the overall revenues, taxes, everything generated by the community, then we take

[43:01] out all the costs for the school district to educate the school age children, all the

[43:05] costs for the township and the state services, and then we get to the net fiscal impact.

[43:10] So the residential has a net fiscal impact of 831,000 every year to the township and school combined.

[43:18] The retail is about $152,000, so total net fish school, in fact, is just under a million

[43:25] dollars every year.

[43:26] This doesn't take into account the one-time transfer tax and the recurrent transfer

[43:30] tax and the units are re-sold, so it's about $100 million out front in the first years

[43:35] of sales, also the other income generated from construction and things of that nature.

[43:40] Our home owners are going to generate revenue for local businesses, they shop local,

[43:48] they

[43:48] additional homeowners also in rooftops that this could provide, it always sustained existing

[43:53] retailers on the corridor, but it's going to also help promote future retail growth.

[43:58] Don't mention before that hopefully this project can be a catalyst to keep the trend on

[44:02] major going east and provide additional commercial and retail and rooftop drives commercial,

[44:08] so that's always a good thing.

[44:11] traffic. We did hire Pannoni, the large traffic engineer in the area, Brian

[44:17] Kimi did that study for us, and we were the one to focus on what improvements

[44:21] will be needed to handle this type of development on bridge bike

[44:26] specifically. If you could go back to the plan, Jeff, I'm sorry, this is a

[44:30] bunch of pages packed.

[44:39] Walk over for Rick and Slayer Me.

[44:45] Mr. Peters, I know you were focusing on this before, so I didn't have to answer any

[44:48] the questions away. So the warrants, I'm not sure if you're familiar with Penn. Not even if the

[44:55] This is a challenge that we're also wanting to put in traffic improvements on our...

[45:02] So a lot of what I'm going to say is dependent on what the warrants would address. Out of the gates, we know that this

[45:09] not retail, this not residential, is going to warrant traffic light and a client road in rich

[45:13] bike. Currently, it does not meet the warrants or traffic signal at the secondary entrance. It does meet the warrants to have a dedicated

[45:23] the left turn into this entrance and dedicated left turn into this entrance, it does meet

[45:28] the warrants to have a dedicated D cell right turn lane in at both entrances. One of the

[45:35] other key items that we looked at was Greenwood Bridge, which is the next intersection down,

[45:42] which is a tricky intersection too, was in site distances by the church. Right now that

[45:47] intersection is on the brink of being the warrants for a traffic signal. We would have to do a

[45:52] full-blown traffic impact, studying through PADNOT

[45:55] to determine if it really would meet it,

[45:57] but there's a good chance that this development

[45:59] could push that over for a traffic light there.

[46:02] One thing, RidgePike does have a lot of congestion,

[46:05] but it does have a lot of improvements.

[46:06] We feel like the traffic engineer feels

[46:09] like any derivation of service that would come

[46:12] from this development could be handled

[46:14] with the existing infrastructure.

[46:15] There'd probably be some re-timing of signals

[46:17] down through the corridor.

[46:19] That would be a required, but we think that would handle

[46:21] all the traffic and any negative impacts. There will be no degradation of service.

[46:29] The authority would, you know, you kind of agree with the assessment this far.

[46:35] I mean, I'll bet that, bet that is an older issue.

[46:40] Well, yeah, I mean, certainly he's characterizing the right.

[46:43] You're looking for access to Ridgeway. That's going to require and not involvement.

[46:51] then they're going to be the primary driver

[46:52] during improvements along the corridor.

[46:56] You know, if they're going that far

[46:57] they're going to end up with a full traffic impact study

[47:01] working with Penda.

[47:02] We'll identify the scope of that to make sure

[47:04] that we're extending far enough east and west

[47:07] to capture that impact.

[47:11] You know, I've worked with Brian before,

[47:14] from Roni, back from data that I've actually reviewed.

[47:19] No reason to doubt what their conclusions are, you know, the concepts and the assumptions

[47:26] are valid and reasonable, and who knows what pendent will say or won't say it.

[47:31] Yeah, I mean, I think a development of this size, I would certainly have expected the same

[47:36] type of conclusions that we're going to need of turn lanes and right turn lanes.

[47:40] A long range point to support entry traffic.

[47:45] having at least one of the access points being signalized to provide, especially in

[47:51] the address to be able to turn left to go east. It would be important if you didn't have that

[47:59] I'd be worried because then all your left-training traffic is either trying to do that.

[48:04] Uncivilized for going through the light and having used that light, which wouldn't be good.

[48:17] We ran a lot of our numbers, we do have the connectivity to the light or shopping center.

[48:22] We sort of back the numbers out in there to run our analysis and not take away from the

[48:28] cross traffic.

[48:29] So they're only going to get better.

[48:30] We sort of ran a worst case, assuming that no one would use the light, but obviously people

[48:35] are, if they're going to get traction, which is the right one.

[48:38] What is the solution in light?

[48:39] You have to do it on a conservative basis.

[48:41] When do you get involved with your project?

[48:47] I think that comes once they've gotten

[48:51] as supervisors as far as a willingness to consider the rezoning.

[48:56] That's when things really start engineering-wise.

[49:00] And that needs to start getting involved from that early standpoint.

[49:04] You had no insight on this at this point?

[49:08] No, not at this point.

[49:12] So, one of our next steps once in Brian's set of registrations is to figure out a sort

[49:16] of, you know, on board with a concept, we would file a scope and application with PENBOT

[49:21] to start working through that and then Brian's group would get involved there.

[49:25] One thing I didn't forget to mention too, and I apologize, the tangent does have an act 2 and 9 feet.

[49:30] So, this would probably generate about $750,000 worth of act 2 and 9 feet.

[49:35] that could either be used for the improvements for this or throughout the township depending

[49:39] on what the study provides.

[49:42] So, there are some other benefits, you know, if the light had agreed with something that

[49:45] is really important, township areas and then act to a plan, you know, that could be a good

[49:49] chip in that if we don't meet those lines.

[49:53] Jim, anything for you at this point?

[49:58] I think we have one more slide to go through, just to tie it all together.

[50:06] In the cabinet's follow-up with what John said, we knew kind of, we were just trying to

[50:11] I can't get a sketch mic together, a rough idea of where things could potentially be,

[50:16] see if the planning commission felt okay about it.

[50:18] If you guys felt okay about it, go and present it to the supervisors.

[50:21] If they felt okay about it, they potentially obviously start the engineering.

[50:25] But we know this is like first inning of a baseball game,

[50:29] but we just want to be able to come in and kind of look at it.

[50:31] So the kind of closing remarks, and then I'll open up for questions.

[50:35] You know, why do we feel that this neighborhood fits kind of a comprehensive plan?

[50:40] And you have a property that, you know, one piece of it is kind of sat dormant for, you know, for 38 years.

[50:46] And as you drive a long-range bike, it just seems like it hasn't been kind of attended to.

[50:51] And we really do feel like this can be kind of the gateway to really make this part of the township work and it feel really good.

[50:59] But we said, any development where the infrastructure already exists is always a good thing.

[51:03] It's not like we need to put in a bunch of roads where we're off a main road, you know, a couple miles from 4.22.

[51:10] We're adding a product cross-section of housing for entry level. First time home buyers families and empty nesters and ladies,

[51:16] this is so early in the process, we could mix and change and adjust based on whatever the township feels like with baby for their, you know, their future homeowners over the next few five, 10, 15, 20 years.

[51:29] We're keeping all the commercial along the main street, which I think is important for a lot of different

[51:33] levels. The residential transitions to existing neighborhoods. So the other part of this is if the

[51:39] supervisors, once you guys say we like it, and the supervisors say they like it, we'll start all

[51:45] the neighborhoods because before we ever do a public meeting, not a true public meeting, at that point we

[51:51] try to meet with all the neighbors and kind of get some of their issues worked out because what I did say

[51:55] there is some residential zoning on the back left corner of it's the singles where you technically could

[52:00] a good tendency with any loss, we would plan on doing that.

[52:04] We would just use that as open space, park,

[52:06] whatever that decides to be.

[52:08] But so we would sit down with all the neighbors

[52:10] before we be back.

[52:11] You guys would go on that property,

[52:13] but do you have no expectations

[52:15] that it's going to develop?

[52:17] Yeah.

[52:17] So you would say what, you would give it back

[52:19] to the township with the park?

[52:21] Well, part of HOA, let that maintain it out.

[52:24] I'd probably better for the township

[52:25] or someone else to speak for it.

[52:27] Well, I don't disagree on it.

[52:28] I just want to hear what you would say.

[52:30] Yeah, yeah.

[52:30] Do you think the HLA will maintain it, maintain it, know it, and do what they want to do with

[52:36] it?

[52:36] Exactly.

[52:37] So, from that standpoint, the internal roadway network connecting the three large parcels

[52:43] plus the retail, and being able to tie all that stuff in plus the trails, even going at a

[52:48] bunch of different directions, I do really think you can do some really cool things and connect

[52:52] a lot of people in through this.

[52:54] That's a good question, John.

[52:54] I think you just brought up there.

[52:56] the roads go through the right way, the people right away.

[53:00] So I'll see if we get them to go, correct.

[53:02] And they have to approve whatever they do, their process.

[53:06] What happens, God forbid, you know, something happens

[53:10] when they have to shut that road down

[53:12] because they have to do some work.

[53:15] Is that ever happening?

[53:16] Have you seen that?

[53:17] I'm not saying I have, I'm asking for that type of feedback.

[53:22] Typically, they like those roads that go across.

[53:24] They make you cross the most perpendicular angle that you can because they don't want you

[53:29] They don't want to have to work along the road as you'd mentioned

[53:32] Typically, it's like that in your perpendicular

[53:34] They can work from either side and not shut the road down completely

[53:38] We've done several of these of never seen in those groups where they've ever shot a shutter road down because of

[53:43] You know power lines fell or something

[53:47] The good news is because you have the two accesses if they ever did

[53:59] We just kind of talked about the mix use, what would it all be consistent with the township,

[54:02] comprehensive plan, community trial site walk, everything that we just talked about.

[54:07] And then the last thing, which is kind of the catalyst of what could potentially be come of that main street corridor between trap and up to alert township.

[54:18] That was our presentation, so I'll open up any questions or thoughts that you guys have.

[54:26] Start.

[54:27] I think it's a good plan.

[54:32] I mean, you know, let's go.

[54:34] I'm not sure if I'm like one or two, or I

[54:41] think you guys done a nice job of putting something

[54:42] out there.

[54:43] Thank you.

[54:44] The fellow's that property there, which is, you know, you've been talking about that property for a long time.

[54:49] and one of our goals is maybe trying to protect you.

[54:53] But I'm not sure that was feasible in the moment.

[54:57] So that's all I have at this point.

[55:00] I don't have anything other questions.

[55:02] Anyone else?

[55:04] I'll go tell some of your thoughts.

[55:06] I mean, I think this plan is an improvement of role

[55:09] we saw before.

[55:11] Every two.

[55:12] Yeah, number two.

[55:13] And I applaud you for responding to the comments.

[55:18] And I think, in general, it seems like you've made a great attempt to be in alignment with the common plan.

[55:29] There are a lot of positives I heard about your intent on the way this plan could go.

[55:35] I mean, obviously there's details of this traffic, there's things to look at.

[55:40] The mix of houses, I appreciate the fact that you said, I think one of the,

[55:45] So maybe the three stories, the same footprint is going to be traded off if the mix.

[55:50] Exactly, so they're probably, what do you do?

[55:53] Let's say I town, where are the three stories out?

[55:55] They're going to be 24, why by 15.

[55:57] So we say we want to do a mixture of them.

[55:59] We can easily have fun and play.

[56:01] I think the mix of housing types is a great thing.

[56:05] It's something that we've true-paded in the current plan and talked about.

[56:11] So yeah, I think for this point in time, I'm so happy.

[56:14] If I think I get a good plan, obviously, there are always details that you worked out yet within an early plan.

[56:21] From what I say, I think it's the potential giving out ways, any potential negative.

[56:27] There's got a few questions to leave in what you just said here.

[56:31] All three of the options, if you took all three of the options, they're all considering putting them through the lines, right?

[56:38] all three that we can go to be, we can clue the through ways.

[56:43] Correct.

[56:44] Number two is, personally, myself, I like the lower density.

[56:49] So the first option, the 2.31 I believe,

[56:55] technically, I guess,

[56:56] I guess for you guys, the SPAC gives you more sales, right?

[57:01] It's more root-offs.

[57:03] It's kind of crazy when you talk to the, because we've talked about

[57:06] three different retail, you know, companies about, how would you design it? What would you do?

[57:11] Just get some feedback so we have something kind of close to what potentially you look like.

[57:15] I've seen the more we've actually have the more people they like, just the more people they like.

[57:23] So from that standpoint, from a value standpoint, the retail, the more retail you have,

[57:27] I think we talked about this a little last time, you know, with cost to bill for new buildings and stuff.

[57:32] So retail is really hard to make work in today's environment, not that it isn't done, but it's really hard.

[57:40] Whatever retail we do here, it's almost like you have to be able to do something with the residential, the offset, whatever the cost of the retail that makes sense.

[57:49] So we have the option one, which is your original plan. We have 231.

[57:54] and then you got option two, we have two hundred and sixty-six.

[57:59] Yeah, what's the cost difference there?

[58:03] I mean, you would just say if we ditched one of thirty-one units,

[58:06] we'd probably want to have about forty-five thousand square feet of retail.

[58:09] If we needed to jump to like sixty thousand square feet of retail,

[58:13] we'd probably need to add those additional twenty-five units

[58:15] to offset some of the cost of the additional retail of the cost.

[58:18] Okay, so the additional retail is in option two.

[58:23] Yes, he was an option too. Right, so we went back to option one to our 31 houses that he had just let's

[58:31] reek it. We might scale back to retail. Okay, that's not bad. But the retail was still all in the front.

[58:39] Yep, of course. And, and, and,

[58:45] of the senior living, adult marriages which I like a lot.

[58:52] I'm still not sure if I want to or want them. I had a big today.

[58:55] I'm not sure now I understand two better for you guys yourself, right, but, but, you know, I think what you're just saying, even though keeping the

[59:06] stacked townhouses for a three-story whatever on that side, it looks better, right?

[59:14] It provides a little more open space, a little bit more of an offer, and

[59:23] you're saying that you may have to then scale back to retail a bit.

[59:26] Maybe a little bit, what I would tell you is, the reason I can scale by a one-billion,

[59:35] one, 12,000, up

[59:45] to the process, and all that stuff.

[59:47] I like it.

[59:47] I like Tom's comment.

[59:48] I do, I really do like, after one instance, that there provides an open area, an open space

[59:57] which we really want to promote in the township.

[1:00:00] So, maybe the past plan might be a little combination of one and two. I got this study a little bit more and hear all the traffic stuff and all that stuff. I don't think we should just throw away one and go with two. I don't think.

[1:00:19] I appreciate you getting up to speed in the beginning. I too like the plan. And questions are, because it was covered by the meeting, the undeveloped area on the top left hand corner.

[1:00:33] that you say will give back to the HOA to manage.

[1:00:36] You have a cell divided in a little row and you call this that drawn in there.

[1:00:41] So are there future plans to develop them?

[1:00:44] Yeah, so we actually put a note out there not to be developed.

[1:00:47] I see that.

[1:00:47] What we're trying to do is when you come into kind of layout and plans and stuff,

[1:00:54] you just try to be kind of straightforward with what could potentially go there or not go there.

[1:00:59] We just wanted to say, oh, hey, what's going to happen to that down the road?

[1:01:02] We want to say, OK, put the zoning.

[1:01:04] You can do 10 simple family loss there.

[1:01:06] We would just say, it's not enough.

[1:01:08] So if it's moved down the process where we do truly engineered plans, we would just show

[1:01:13] that it's open space.

[1:01:15] But in the early stages of having a conversation with the planning commission and with the board,

[1:01:19] we just want to say, we took that off.

[1:01:21] We're taking that off the table.

[1:01:22] We're not going to have neighbors come out and go out and have 10 houses by me because that's

[1:01:26] always the pushback.

[1:01:27] Anyway, we're taking that off the table right away, so yeah.

[1:01:31] Any further questions?

[1:01:32] The recreational aspects like the pickle bowl or things like that.

[1:01:37] Maybe in there.

[1:01:38] Yeah, maybe up there.

[1:01:39] Sure.

[1:01:39] And then some other things included.

[1:01:41] Yeah, of course, the single family members are there.

[1:01:43] We'll be conflated about that.

[1:01:44] I don't know.

[1:01:45] I don't know.

[1:01:46] I'm not going to talk about that.

[1:01:48] Oh, good.

[1:01:52] That's a lot.

[1:01:53] Thank you.

[1:01:54] All right.

[1:01:55] I think you need more men in your space right now.

[1:01:57] I would think of a whole court that only served with one group of members.

[1:02:03] There's open space there that you can work around, even if that means you get a more

[1:02:08] stacked townhouse and you get a little bit more density, I think you're going to need more

[1:02:12] amenity space.

[1:02:15] I see the back portion, not a known area, I would like to see it forest and re-forested, something

[1:02:21] like that, something that's managed forestry so that we can don't have to have another

[1:02:27] aggressive field that we have to have at our own mall. I definitely think you need to look

[1:02:31] at Greenwood Avenue. I think that that's critical. I know Jerry's about the, you know,

[1:02:36] seven saw.

[1:02:39] I don't like the number of this plan. I don't mind the layout of this plan,

[1:02:45] of the third plan, with the residential up to the front. Again, maybe the number low

[1:02:50] is some amenity space behind those stacked-town houses right up on your bike. But I want to see if

[1:02:55] If you're going to go to that number, or even if you're in state, 256, to have retail

[1:03:00] or to have more retail on the other side, to focus the retail on the left side and on

[1:03:05] the client road side of it, and not so much on the right side.

[1:03:09] Again, at the free standing restaurant, you're nice.

[1:03:12] But unless they're attached to something, I don't see them as being that successful.

[1:03:17] Like, the girks is successful right now because it's a great sport for them to begin with,

[1:03:21] but it's also right there with Chick-fil-A, as some other things people can walk to.

[1:03:25] Okay, those two restaurants out by themselves tend to become free-standing.

[1:03:29] Now, maybe you deed your restriction for lack of a better way of putting it at this point

[1:03:34] to say offices are medical users or something to that effect, that they might be successful

[1:03:40] there because it's not dependent on a drive-in drive-out.

[1:03:44] Right.

[1:03:46] Well, those create more of a drive-in driveout situation.

[1:03:50] The restaurants, I think, are going to benefit from a walk.

[1:03:52] can walk from the main, over there. Most people are not. Most people are going to stick to the 12K

[1:03:59] up in front and walk to restaurants there. Right.

[1:04:05] Burke is good. Maybe we, you know, will

[1:04:07] we're finding a little bit, depending on the slope, the elevation, you know, what's going on with it.

[1:04:12] I wouldn't mind seeing if we go with that,

[1:04:20] that maybe you, I don't know if you can see my

[1:04:23] milestone, but maybe you lose some of the units in here and you've got a little more stacked

[1:04:27] townhouses in here to put the amenities up here. Again, maybe that's where that

[1:04:31] stack townhouses come up in front and they create a little neighborhood with some amenities for

[1:04:36] everybody in the community and back.

[1:04:40] Well, it's nice that the 55 and older myself

[1:04:44] included get the pickleball. You know, the young families still need something. Right. And

[1:04:49] right now that something's going to be okay, where in the township are we going? The pickleball.

[1:04:53] Well, I mean, taking a seven-year-old plate pick-up of all is fun for about five minutes.

[1:05:02] But to give them something to do, because in this area the township there is no park.

[1:05:09] The drive for the park is 20 minutes away, to get here.

[1:05:12] Which people will do because this park is phenomenal, and it's a great space, but there's

[1:05:17] nothing in this area that they go to other than driving a limerick and going to Antic.

[1:05:21] and we don't want to do that.

[1:05:25] I just, I'm just a clerk.

[1:05:27] Is that light blue in their draw?

[1:05:29] That's more, it's more kind of like a, that's right.

[1:05:33] It's a buffer area to wetlands.

[1:05:35] So it's not all wetlands.

[1:05:37] It's, it's unusable.

[1:05:38] There's wetlands in there.

[1:05:39] There's creeps through there.

[1:05:40] And then there's a parry and bomb.

[1:05:41] That's what I call.

[1:05:41] I want to make sure that.

[1:05:42] Yeah.

[1:05:44] Even if you put the tram through,

[1:05:45] you can be, you can be trail.

[1:05:48] You can be trail.

[1:05:49] Yeah.

[1:05:49] I think it could be built on this area to keep our

[1:05:57] fee and bill of recreation open space and things like that.

[1:06:00] We'll get into that discussion once we have a more formal plan.

[1:06:04] Even if there's some recreation space that dedicates some work we work on,

[1:06:08] some else the tangent for you to build, always less expensive for you to build something that has brought us to sure.

[1:06:14] Maybe we have that conversation down the road.

[1:06:17] Generally, I do like to retell a plan to better.

[1:06:20] I think that that can create a really nice urban space that nothing has a long

[1:06:26] finish line. There's nothing like that and you can create an extremely

[1:06:29] walkable community and you can still get to target your big grocery shopping.

[1:06:35] I know 12K isn't made enough to put a trader Joe's in but you know that's

[1:06:39] what I'm very last. So is everybody has for that? I know it's the strangest thing.

[1:06:43] One of the retail people we talk to actually said this would be a good spot for

[1:06:49] I think so too. I think somewhere in this town, some of this area is a great spot for it, but it really wants one for some.

[1:06:54] They don't want to leave the main line.

[1:06:58] But I think this plan is, as we said, I think they were ultra responsive to what you said last month.

[1:07:10] We zone in this parcel with a certain zoning to it. I don't really want to do an overlay, but we have to figure out how that works out.

[1:07:18] How do we do this? We're probably going to start talking about what else we're going to do with Bridge Bike.

[1:07:23] I don't know if I buy into it that this is going to be an economic driver that they buy into,

[1:07:28] but that's really just a philosophical difference for the rest of Bridge Bike.

[1:07:31] I think that's more problematic when you have a single lot that's working in a car wash.

[1:07:38] I mean, we can put a couple more on the other side of it.

[1:07:42] So that's something we have to decide as a planning condition is, what does this mean for the NC district?

[1:07:49] Because this would probably be a new district of some sort.

[1:07:54] But before we, you know, that's all for me, yeah.

[1:07:58] Okay, then I'm going to ask for public comment.

[1:07:59] Anybody want to make public comment?

[1:08:02] You got some public people here, do you want to make public comment?

[1:08:05] I'll be happy to.

[1:08:08] They're looking for that 50 pound of loot.

[1:08:11] Well, the one thing you may want to do, you know, I don't know what you want to talk, I

[1:08:15] don't know.

[1:08:16] Well, not that this is, if you're going to find yourself to quit, you're going to give

[1:08:22] me an answer.

[1:08:22] Okay.

[1:08:24] And it's 800 Woods and Court Collegeville.

[1:08:28] One important thing that we found in our community, which is Regency, and everybody knows

[1:08:35] about Regency.

[1:08:35] I'm sure is we took a putting green now that was hardly used and put a botchy cord in that

[1:08:43] is used a lot. We have teams in there every day and it might be something for you guys

[1:08:50] that you wouldn't think about instead of even pickable. You may want to think about botchy.

[1:08:56] It's very popular, very easy on the older people and even the younger people. So it might

[1:09:03] be something to consider and that would have zone just to slow it off the top of my head.

[1:09:07] Thank you.

[1:09:08] Thank you.

[1:09:09] Thank you.

[1:09:13] What do we need to do with your gentlemen?

[1:09:15] Nothing at all.

[1:09:16] I think you've given some more good feedback.

[1:09:18] I'm sure we'll be having a conversation.

[1:09:20] I'll be having a conversation with them in the next day or so and I'll figure out what they

[1:09:24] want to do before they go on the board agenda and then they'll make a shorter presentation

[1:09:29] of the board.

[1:09:31] The board will go for an hour and a half.

[1:09:34] So we have no recommendation at this point?

[1:09:36] No, I don't think we need to.

[1:09:38] If you want them to, I mean, I think if you want to express to me what your general consensus is,

[1:09:44] do you like to plan up at this point?

[1:09:46] I do minding.

[1:09:47] Well, I think my opinions, I think we've already expressed their opinion.

[1:09:50] Yeah, I think we've had it.

[1:09:53] There are many options.

[1:09:56] Many.

[1:09:56] Do you hear there's no official application?

[1:09:58] There's no book.

[1:09:58] It really isn't an official book.

[1:10:00] The only thing I would love to be able to do when we go from the Supervisors and

[1:10:06] companies, I would love for them to say, we talk to Supervisors and they're all in

[1:10:10] favor or form or favor, aren't they the language, I would just love something they're

[1:10:14] like a, everyone's in support of it.

[1:10:18] I think we're in support from a general perspective, but with lots of comments and

[1:10:25] this year a lot of people are doing all that, but I mean, it's a nice point, so I mean the way we're going to

[1:10:32] recommend, continue to move forward with and we'll deal with the details in the future as we go forward.

[1:10:41] I know you guys haven't worked with us in the past, but if you're talking to the townships that do work with us,

[1:10:46] we understand like this is a process and it's probably a two-man for three-year process and a lot of back and forth

[1:10:52] than you know trying to keep the neighbors happy and get some of the touching wants and obviously some that works with the landscape.

[1:10:56] A lot of neighbors that got to, I mean, not that time.

[1:11:00] Yeah.

[1:11:01] Offer between you and the town.

[1:11:04] Yeah.

[1:11:07] Either way though, I'd like to get out of it.

[1:11:09] And we'd always try to keep the neighbors.

[1:11:11] Yeah.

[1:11:11] So, but we try to be good guys to work with.

[1:11:15] And they said we, you know, we really want to build great neighborhoods.

[1:11:20] and we want to do stuff that benefits the overall townships.

[1:11:22] One thing that you mentioned that you plug my year right away is

[1:11:26] so many people come in here and present something

[1:11:29] and the next thing you know we say 100 people sitting out here complaining about

[1:11:34] if you talk to some of the people in the area

[1:11:37] makes a big difference for sure.

[1:11:40] Make sure that they're on board.

[1:11:41] Yeah, for sure.

[1:11:42] Well, we'll definitely do that.

[1:11:44] Obviously, the supervisors agree with you.

[1:11:47] it's A.A. Let's kind of you get inside the door to meet you. We don't think it's a good

[1:11:52] idea so far. Awesome. We appreciate all your time. Thank you guys for having us today.

[1:11:59] Okay,

[1:12:03] so let's move on.

[1:12:09] What do you want to do here about the future, Jeff? Of course,

[1:12:14] they answered.

[1:12:18] Well, on the 16th, which is our next meeting, Montclair Townhouses

[1:12:26] is actually on, we have some questions about where they are with their plans,

[1:12:31] emissions, and review time and stuff like that. So, we got a 50-50 shot,

[1:12:37] we'll be on. I will be talking about their attorney tomorrow. Based on what to

[1:12:41] be on, the question is if their plans are ready and if Jen has enough time to

[1:12:45] review, is there are technical plans at this point with the preliminary plan.

[1:12:50] Mainline Hospital will be on that agenda for the first sort of discussion of

[1:12:55] there are plans, discussion, there's only ordinance.

[1:12:58] Are we anticipating how

[1:13:03] the people come up?

[1:13:04] I don't know.

[1:13:05] I mean, we've had a few people that have expressed concern.

[1:13:08] I mean, they've got here.

[1:13:10] But I can't say that we've, I mean, if you heard,

[1:13:13] maybe feedback from people coming up.

[1:13:15] There isn't a presence of mainland hospital yet

[1:13:18] or friends that get mainland hospital yet.

[1:13:21] So that I'm aware of, and I tend to be pretty tapped

[1:13:24] at other people's in the tummy now, I don't think you are.

[1:13:26] So, I

[1:13:31] have not heard anything, and as we get closer maybe well, but again, this is really

[1:13:36] sort of the initial discussion of what the zoning ordinance is, what their plan is.

[1:13:41] They're looking to get the zoning text amendment, the zoning map amendment done first, and

[1:13:45] then they get the conditional use intended sketch, because there's a lot of layers of this

[1:13:48] application.

[1:13:49] Sure, sure.

[1:13:49] But I mean, here, I don't know, I just think my opinion would be just like this plain to

[1:13:54] to start the feedback should be minimal.

[1:13:57] It does hide it.

[1:13:58] This is a great use of that piece of property.

[1:14:01] Right across from the time I said.

[1:14:03] I tend to agree with you, but that was in the details.

[1:14:05] Yes, I agree.

[1:14:06] I agree with you.

[1:14:07] Yeah, a lot of people in back there have been

[1:14:09] and I tend to go to, yeah, I do.

[1:14:11] But absolutely.

[1:14:12] I think it's the future of that property.

[1:14:14] It's a good fit.

[1:14:15] Absolutely.

[1:14:17] For the October meeting that I left the date off of,

[1:14:20] I think that will be the dime.

[1:14:21] It will be the, yeah, I just talked about that.

[1:14:23] It's the 7.

[1:14:27] It can be the 7.

[1:14:30] That one is to be determined.

[1:14:32] It really is a lot of plans out there that applicants are reviewing and writing and finishing

[1:14:37] up and cleaning up and we went through a lot of the moment of summer and they made it.

[1:14:45] So we'll have to see.

[1:14:47] Tom, if I remember, you're not here for testing.

[1:14:50] I have a lot of you on the 16th.

[1:14:51] Okay, I'm kind of anticipating that maybe the hospital might come back on the October 7th meeting for a recommendation at that point.

[1:15:01] I think the sixteenth is just an introduction, information, get your feedback on the hospital

[1:15:08] here, and then maybe at that point October come back for the recommendation. It's a lot

[1:15:14] to take you into the hospital, especially with the zoning and all of that.

[1:15:19] I'm sorry, have you heard much from them? Oh yes, they've been very responsive.

[1:15:28] We've had

[1:15:29] the zoning role right now because that's really the initial part of it and it's tentative.

[1:15:32] I mean, there is a drive-out that Brian has beat them up over. Still not.

[1:15:38] You feel Brian goes, yeah. That's going to be a big question, but I think also once our town

[1:15:45] houses might shift to the October meeting and then so that would be the first meeting October.

[1:15:49] We'll see if some of the other ones I can go through, but there really, of all the applications we have,

[1:15:55] If there really isn't any movement on anything at this point, it's really all in the applicant's hands to repeat a rise in the points.

[1:16:03] Jerry, did anybody notice that talking about Ridge Pike on the east side of the development?

[1:16:10] Somebody was fixing up one of those houses on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on those houses?

[1:16:19] Yeah, okay.

[1:16:20] That's a good thing.

[1:16:21] So, I don't know what was going on.

[1:16:24] I don't know what was going on.

[1:16:24] But they put a roof on the shore.

[1:16:26] They put a new roof on the shore.

[1:16:27] I know they're in the house that was for sale.

[1:16:29] This recently went up for sale.

[1:16:30] Like a bank.

[1:16:31] I don't need it.

[1:16:31] They're going to buy the jersey.

[1:16:33] I'm trying to get the saleable shirt.

[1:16:35] Yeah.

[1:16:36] I'm trying to check it out.

[1:16:38] The...

[1:16:38] Tom had asked me, sorry, you had asked me earlier about the board's reaction to the L-car wash and

[1:16:44] the D-dirt shirt.

[1:16:44] Yes.

[1:16:46] They...

[1:16:46] They are still looking for more information from happy

[1:16:54] did not like it very much or weren't

[1:16:57] necessarily in favor, but they were just they wanted more information about the traffic portion and what what the traffic

[1:17:03] What the traffic impacts

[1:17:06] Same thing you had expressed but they have a little bit more authority to say we're not going to do anything until you give us that information

[1:17:12] Oh, you the planning committee can say we'd like to have it the board can say

[1:17:20] I play it and it comes back with that information.

[1:17:23] I don't know if they're going to come back to the planning commission.

[1:17:25] It depends on what information they bring.

[1:17:28] Because right now the crux of really is, if the board isn't willing to lift that deed

[1:17:31] restriction, if there's just not no capacity for them to do that, there's no point for them

[1:17:36] to come back here and spend their wheels.

[1:17:39] So really the question is, how do we do that?

[1:17:41] Right?

[1:17:43] I think your recommendation was you're generally okay with that as in use.

[1:17:49] But, you want to see the traffic and all of that stuff before you buy up on them.

[1:17:54] But

[1:17:58] it's more comfortable with that, they said, no, we're not doing anything at the

[1:18:01] point.

[1:18:01] We're not doing anything.

[1:18:02] We want you to come back with more information.

[1:18:08] We see going up other places and then there won't be too much for lying going in.

[1:18:15] And that was part of their concern, was how many of these do we need to build?

[1:18:24] And then that's not really a question because in my mind if somebody wants to build a whether

[1:18:30] or not successful land use that's their problem because they said three to six million

[1:18:37] dollars to build this, to build that down there, and if there was that six million dollars

[1:19:15] Yeah, I saw that in the last couple of months.

[1:19:17] No, they received their...

[1:19:18] Yeah, they put it on the table.

[1:19:20] Yeah, what do I have to say?

[1:19:21] Well, my guess is that it was planned development by...

[1:19:23] I'm fairly certain.

[1:19:24] Yeah, I heard the...

[1:19:25] I heard that it was pretty much just on the way.

[1:19:27] Yeah.

[1:19:27] How did you mean the amputation?

[1:19:29] Right?

[1:19:30] Yeah.

[1:19:31] Did it approve that?

[1:19:32] Well, they...

[1:19:33] Yeah, they're moving in law.

[1:19:34] I don't know what the process is either.

[1:19:36] But...

[1:19:37] But I heard that it was positive.

[1:19:42] Does that flight you?

[1:19:44] Yeah.

[1:19:44] The only other question I have is...

[1:19:46] Blair, are you gonna come back again?

[1:19:58] I'm not sure what that agenda is going to be yet, but I can talk to you about the next

[1:20:06] meeting that would be in November, the other conversation we had, yes, that's all we

[1:20:13] talked about.

[1:20:13] Yeah, the meeting after this would be November, so you're saying that you, for the environmental

[1:20:22] advisory council, we don't necessarily have to have a plenty of commission persons on that.

[1:20:26] No, we don't.

[1:20:28] That's a change.

[1:20:28] We haven't changed those rules.

[1:20:30] Well, but whoever's on them now has to be there for at least two years.

[1:20:40] Or did any of these on Bob?

[1:20:41] We officially voted him as the member.

[1:20:43] Well Bob, he's now has 25 years.

[1:20:45] He's a part of the environmental advisory council.

[1:20:46] I bet you feel on the student.

[1:20:48] Yeah, I've been on for four.

[1:20:49] I've been on for five years.

[1:20:50] And you know how

[1:20:57] coke that wasn't too hard for 40 for you tonight.

[1:21:00] That's very exciting.

[1:21:01] Oh yes.

[1:21:03] You see we're really good.

[1:21:05] We're going to get him a controversial audience participation.

[1:21:11] Where do we get about 100% plot there?

[1:21:14] I've seen it just now.

[1:21:15] You guys good?

[1:21:17] Ken?

[1:21:17] Brian?

[1:21:18] You good?

[1:21:18] All right.

[1:21:19] The commotion to Roger.

[1:21:21] One

[1:21:26] a second, send.

[1:21:27] One, two a second.

[1:21:29] Ok, then.

[1:21:30] Another a second?

[1:21:31] OK, both of you.

[1:21:31] Say, back it up, I'm going to do the laser drum.

[1:21:32] Oh, no, that's okay.

[1:21:33] With the laser, take it.

[1:21:34] With the laser, there is a laser.

[1:21:34] It's not working.as.

[1:21:52] Remember your laser.

Sep 02, 2026 Planning Commission

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