[0:00] All right. Now that everyone is here, um

[0:02] I'd like to call this meeting to order

[0:04] on July 22nd at 6:03 p.m.

[0:11] » public participation. Ann, did we get

[0:14] anything?

[0:14] >> We did not.

[0:17] We just for um just to let you know,

[0:19] Susan Aldo is here. She's sitting in my

[0:21] office. She works in the water

[0:23] department. She's actually the one who's

[0:25] sending out all the July bills right

[0:27] now. So, she's just sitting in. No

[0:29] problem.

[0:34] All right, we got some minutes to

[0:37] approve, too. I did, one of the notes I

[0:40] did make, I think we just got to change

[0:42] the dates on um one of the minutes to

[0:46] the 27th of May, I believe.

[0:49] I don't know if anyone else caught

[0:50] anything else they wanted changed on

[0:52] those.

[0:53] >> Chris, I caught just one thing. I think

[0:55] >> on the I think it was the second set of

[0:58] minutes where it referenced the

[0:59] abatement request. It may have been the

[1:01] first set. I can't remember. One of them

[1:03] it says that the spigot was off for an

[1:07] extended period of time. I think it

[1:08] meant to say the spigot was on for an

[1:10] extended period of time.

[1:11] >> Yeah.

[1:11] >> So that's that was my only change.

[1:14] >> Okay.

[1:19] So the May 18th minutes, I believe that

[1:22] reference the um abatement is the

[1:24] correct date, right? So we can we could

[1:28] uh entertain a a motion to approve those

[1:30] minutes.

[1:31] >> So moved.

[1:33] >> All in favor?

[1:34] >> I motion carries 30.

[1:39] And then Oh, and oh, I'm sorry. I should

[1:42] have um corrected that too. just with

[1:45] that correction on on left on for the

[1:47] spigot like Elena noted.

[1:54] And then the second set of uh minutes we

[1:56] have is from May 27th with the corrected

[1:58] date. I don't know if there was any uh

[2:01] corrections anyone would want that or

[2:03] they noticed.

[2:06] >> I didn't have any comments on that one.

[2:07] >> Neither did I. Okay. Same.

[2:10] >> Okay.

[2:12] >> I'll make a motion to approve.

[2:14] I'll second.

[2:17] >> Oh, that's okay.

[2:19] >> All in [clears throat] favor? I

[2:20] >> I.

[2:21] >> Motion carries. 30.

[2:25] >> Okay.

[2:29] All right. Item number four, irrigation

[2:32] and abatement discussion.

[2:36] Would like to kick it off?

[2:37] >> I'll go with that one. So um

[2:42] we are due

[2:44] to review irrigation second meters the

[2:48] outdoor moratorum um again this season

[2:52] and what we wanted to do today was kind

[2:55] of start the conversation by basically

[2:58] having a kickoff um and I'll explain you

[3:02] know some of the things that you know

[3:03] we're thinking of on this end uh in a

[3:05] second but um if you go back to uh when

[3:09] Ann and I, it feels like forever ago,

[3:11] but um the first town council meeting in

[3:14] June uh when we were in there, we got a

[3:16] couple of interesting questions um

[3:18] towards the end, you know, about um the

[3:21] rate setting process and then, you know,

[3:23] we were talking about the discount and

[3:26] uh it was raised, you know, one of the

[3:28] things of I think with anything, you

[3:30] know, the the way that the fiscal

[3:33] constraints and things are, you know,

[3:35] are we doing, you know, what is

[3:38] considered I guess I'll paraphrase but

[3:40] you know average or or common uh in this

[3:44] universe as as far as you know uh costs

[3:47] fees you know different program pieces

[3:49] uh and whatnot and um it was actually

[3:51] mentioned on whether or not we've ever

[3:53] evaluated

[3:55] uh the discount and whether that should

[3:58] be something that should ultimately be

[4:00] brought up again um and discussed as far

[4:04] as you know should that apply across the

[4:06] board uh should that be, you know,

[4:09] limited in certain ways? Is there some

[4:11] sort of eligibility criteria, you know,

[4:14] that we should look at, you know,

[4:15] because basically we've just been going

[4:17] on since I can remember um where that

[4:20] was applied across the board. So, when

[4:22] we started, you know, getting the wheels

[4:24] spinning um on this topic,

[4:29] we were thinking about, you know, kind

[4:30] of the same thing. So um Chris to your

[4:33] point one of the things that we've

[4:35] altered now every time that we start you

[4:38] know presenting you know our rate

[4:39] package and getting that conversation

[4:41] going is you had made the suggestion uh

[4:44] a few years ago now I think at this

[4:45] point it was really beneficial to you to

[4:47] see that you know comparison slide with

[4:49] everything kind of total together so you

[4:51] could see you know the big impact with

[4:53] all the pieces put together. So with all

[4:56] those things in mind, we wanted to get

[4:58] you all together and kind of talk about

[5:00] you know as we go down this road uh and

[5:03] there'll be a couple things that we'll

[5:04] kind of review um in parallel to each

[5:07] other. So if you remember you know we

[5:09] had done some work on um a billing

[5:11] dispute policy um some pool abatement

[5:14] stuff and then obviously irrigation but

[5:16] we wanted to you know kind of plant the

[5:18] seed uh to you guys and say

[5:21] you know typically we've taken the

[5:22] approach with the the irrigation piece

[5:24] where we've kind of taken a bunch of

[5:25] hypothetical scenarios and trying to

[5:28] benchmark you know here's what a lot of

[5:31] participation may look like and you know

[5:32] how things from the financial standpoint

[5:34] may or may not change. you know, here's

[5:36] what we consider sort of like your

[5:38] mid-tier, you know, participation, and

[5:40] then here is a scenario where the

[5:43] participation rate is relatively high.

[5:46] We wanted to see, you know, or at least,

[5:48] you know, have the kickoff conversation

[5:50] to see if there's anything else that

[5:52] anybody may want to see different this

[5:54] time around rather than kind of going

[5:56] through um a little bit of the same, you

[6:00] know, repeat process that we've seen

[6:02] before.

[6:04] um you know, is there any different data

[6:06] or the way things are presented that

[6:08] might make us

[6:10] feel more informed when it comes time to

[6:12] ultimately make a recommendation to the

[6:14] council? Um you know, we'll obviously

[6:18] have the I'll call it the foundational

[6:21] things like you know, regulatory

[6:23] compliance will be one of the things we

[6:25] looked at. If you remember last time,

[6:26] not only do we run the financial piece,

[6:28] but we took a look at, you know, what is

[6:30] a policy related to participation might

[6:33] look like with this. Um, so you have the

[6:35] regulatory piece that we want to make

[6:37] sure that we touch on, you know, and

[6:38] different things like, you know, your

[6:39] property is up to code with plumbing and

[6:42] different things like that. But we

[6:44] really wanted to see or, you know, get

[6:46] creative if there are any other, you

[6:48] know, um, pieces or nuances to this that

[6:51] we think that we should explore.

[6:54] um you know outside of kind of what

[6:56] we've already done. And if that's not

[6:58] the case, that's totally fine, too. We

[7:00] just want to make sure that there are

[7:01] any stones that we want to turn over uh

[7:03] that we don't get too far down the road

[7:05] uh on one path versus the other, you

[7:08] know, so we don't pision pigeon hole

[7:10] ourselves. So, that's kind of where we

[7:12] were thinking uh about tonight is to try

[7:14] to kick that off, you know, and at least

[7:16] get the wheels turning on that. Um, and

[7:19] then at some point in time, uh, after,

[7:22] um, you know, a little bit of back and

[7:24] forth or whatever we decide to do

[7:26] tonight, um, we could come up with

[7:28] whatever our date might be, try to put a

[7:31] benchmark, uh, on the calendar to say,

[7:33] okay, you know, by X date, we want our

[7:35] base data to start looking at, and then

[7:38] start working it from there. And then

[7:39] you know we can go through the process

[7:40] of taking the first sit and kneading

[7:43] that into you know whatever it might

[7:44] materialize to get to the point where

[7:47] you know there's a comfortability with

[7:49] decision- making. So um that's what

[7:52] we're hoping to intend to do today. Um

[7:55] but u I will leave it up to the board

[7:58] the group um whatever you folks may

[8:00] think not think comments questions

[8:02] concern uh we're all ears. uh we're just

[8:06] trying to narrow down the lane that

[8:07] we're going to run in and you know get

[8:09] you folks what you might need um to be

[8:12] comfortable with whatever the

[8:13] conversation may take us next.

[8:16] >> So I have a question on what you said

[8:18] right at the start about the discount

[8:20] program. I think you know my thoughts

[8:22] that I love the discount program. I

[8:24] think it is um basically just a

[8:27] feel-good way of getting people to pay

[8:29] their bills quickly. Um whereas if you

[8:32] took away the discount program the cost

[8:33] of the bills would be essentially the

[8:35] same um as with the discount if that's

[8:38] how most people are paying the bills

[8:40] like if that's the revenue that we need

[8:42] and we're collecting it with the

[8:43] discount program in place then then you

[8:46] know in essence we are um we'd be paying

[8:49] the same amount it just wouldn't be

[8:50] called a discount anymore. Um but my

[8:54] biggest question is you mentioned like

[8:55] should there be eligibility criteria. Do

[8:57] you have anything in mind that would

[8:59] like take somebody out of the running

[9:01] for getting the discount?

[9:03] >> No, I don't. And I my my own personal

[9:06] opinion I kind of I align basically with

[9:09] where you are, Elena. Um it's not

[9:12] broken. We haven't touched it. Why fix

[9:14] it? Right. But I think, you know, at

[9:16] least having that brief conversation at

[9:18] that time kind of got us thinking like

[9:20] maybe we need to think a little bit more

[9:22] outside the box than we normally do to

[9:25] kind of make sure that, you know, we're

[9:26] vetting everything that we can. Um, we

[9:29] don't have anything in mind really. Um,

[9:32] you know, there's no

[9:35] predetermined preconceived notions, uh,

[9:38] anything like that. I mean, you know,

[9:39] we've heard, we hear it, I'm sure you

[9:41] folks hear it. I know you definitely see

[9:43] it uh in in your daytoday uh Monday

[9:46] through Friday. All the differing

[9:48] opinions depend on what side you might

[9:50] be on uh with this really. You know,

[9:53] I'll speak for myself. I'm pretty sure

[9:55] Ann aligns with me too. Um we fall right

[9:57] in line with you know, it's the

[9:59] community's decision. It's you know, you folks of the board that is kind of

[10:03] like we vet this through. Uh you have a

[10:05] different contact base than what we do.

[10:08] So you may hear things, see things,

[10:10] experience things that are different

[10:11] than what we may what or we may assume.

[10:13] Uh and then ultimately the town council

[10:15] is the next level up from that. So we

[10:17] just want to make sure that we're

[10:18] open-minded to anything that we think

[10:20] may be beneficial to explore, not

[10:22] explore. You know, it could be just we

[10:25] know that we don't want to go direction

[10:27] X because we feel very strongly that,

[10:30] you know, that's not going to be

[10:31] something that's, you know, an efficient

[10:32] use of our time and that's great, too.

[10:34] We just want to make sure that it's all

[10:36] out there and if there's anything that

[10:37] anybody particularly wants to see, do

[10:39] experience or not. Um

[10:42] that we know about, you know, that and

[10:44] we're talking about that early. That way

[10:45] we don't get too far ahead and wish that

[10:47] we could go back or have to pivot. And

[10:49] you know, what we don't want to have to

[10:50] do is have a bunch of meetings where,

[10:52] you know, we're not using your time, you

[10:55] know, efficiently. So, anything that we

[10:58] could do to kind of

[11:00] help that is really what we're seeking.

[11:02] I guess there's a really long way of

[11:04] answering a question, but

[11:07] >> yeah, I kind of went through the the

[11:08] wheels spinning as you were talking

[11:10] before about what eligibility criteria

[11:13] you could even consider. And I thought,

[11:15] well, you know, if you have like leans

[11:19] on past bills or something, maybe you're

[11:21] not eligible. But then I was thinking,

[11:22] well, those might be the people who need

[11:23] the discounts the most, so you don't

[11:25] want to necessarily go down that road.

[11:27] And then I thought, you know, maybe it's

[11:30] people who like set up for automatic

[11:32] payment online so that you're guaranteed

[11:33] that you get the payment like the day

[11:35] after the bill comes out or something.

[11:37] But then I thought, well, that could be

[11:38] construed as being favor as favoring

[11:41] younger people, people who are more

[11:43] computer savvy, maybe not as senior

[11:45] friendly. Um, so then the only thing I

[11:47] could think of that like maybe could

[11:49] make somebody ineligible is if they've

[11:50] been assessed like a tampering fee or

[11:53] something like or or if they don't have

[11:55] a new meter and we're trying to get or

[11:57] like if they have estimated reads and

[11:59] they won't let us in the house for a new

[12:01] meter. Like maybe there are some really

[12:03] kind of oddball cases that are probably

[12:05] few and far between where we would say

[12:07] somebody wasn't eligible. But then

[12:10] that's probably a lot of work for not a

[12:12] lot of benefit.

[12:16] Yeah, I I agree. I like that thinking

[12:18] because I was trying to think too like I

[12:20] can't think of anybody that would be

[12:22] ineligible, but I I liked where you went

[12:24] with all three scenarios and and I agree

[12:27] with all of them actually. I mean that

[12:28] would be the only one I could think of.

[12:29] I didn't even think of that. So I think

[12:30] that's a great point, right? Like if

[12:34] which you know they need to update a

[12:36] meter and they're not then, you know,

[12:38] maybe that's one way to motivate them to get it updated. But I agree with the

[12:43] others as well. You don't necessarily

[12:45] want to penalize anyone for doing

[12:46] autopay because we like that they're

[12:48] doing autopay. Um, so yeah. No, I I 100%

[12:51] agree and I do also agree with the

[12:53] discount. You know, you hate to kind of

[12:56] take it away and I my understanding is

[12:58] most other towns do it. I have

[13:00] properties in other towns and they do

[13:01] the same. You get a discount for paying

[13:02] early. Um, I will say I think the

[13:06] discount's a little smaller than ours.

[13:08] Um, but I also and I don't I should

[13:11] probably know this. What is our discount

[13:12] for paying early? I actually don't know

[13:14] what it is.

[13:15] >> Uh 10%.

[13:17] >> 10%. Okay, that's great. Um and I'd also

[13:20] say to, you know, we have that I' I'd

[13:24] hate to kind of give that up at this

[13:27] stage too, right? Like if there's some

[13:28] other reason we need money, then maybe

[13:30] we can reduce it to 5%. Like if we have

[13:32] a shortfall, maybe that's where in the

[13:35] future we can say, "Okay, now it's 5%."

[13:37] But I definitely think we should keep a

[13:38] discount uh as well.

[13:42] I I agree there too guys in all valid

[13:45] good points and I think with the

[13:47] discount too I don't know if it's like a

[13:49] mental thing and in a in a good way

[13:52] where people visually see that and like

[13:54] oh wow you know I'm saving money even if

[13:56] they aren't I do think you know from my

[13:59] standpoint from like the work I do over

[14:01] the years and collecting money it does

[14:04] help collect money believe it or not too

[14:06] it gives an incentive you know I want to

[14:09] keep paying my bill I want the discount

[14:10] So there is a couple ways to look at it

[14:13] too and I do think those are all valid

[14:15] points and we definitely should um keep

[14:18] that discount for now.

[14:20] >> Yeah, I'll just let me backtrack for a

[14:23] second. I think you know everybody

[14:26] thinks the same. I think hearing that

[14:28] like I said at that time was like oh

[14:30] maybe everything needs to be taken a

[14:32] look you know maybe we got to look at

[14:33] everything again anyway. Let's not

[14:34] assume anything moving forward. So, we

[14:37] want to make sure before we take a step

[14:39] that, you know, the gears are turning

[14:43] and, you know, we're not just assuming

[14:45] again that if there's anything that may

[14:47] be appropriate to bring up, not bring

[14:48] up, like I said, you know, let's throw

[14:51] it out there and run through it and see

[14:52] what happens because anything is

[14:54] possible, I think, at that point. Um,

[14:57] >> do you have any chronic problems with

[14:58] people who like won't let you swap out a

[15:00] meter or who you're chronically

[15:01] estimating reads or something? And do

[15:03] you have other penalties for those

[15:05] folks?

[15:06] >> There is uh generally we try everything

[15:08] we can to not have to do that. Um I

[15:11] would think that you know if we get to

[15:12] the point where we're looking at

[15:14] policies and things like that, one of

[15:16] the things you know to make you be able

[15:19] to um participate in this should it be

[15:22] reversed or whatnot. We would probably

[15:24] our preference would be at least on our

[15:26] side that you know whatever um domestic

[15:28] meter you have and or alternate meter

[15:30] whatever that could end up being is able

[15:33] to be uh remotely read. So you know it's

[15:36] up to date. Um and that will naturally

[15:38] you know someone that's interested in

[15:39] that that may have a meter that you know

[15:41] we prefer to replace. Obviously that's a

[15:44] great way to perform that intervention

[15:46] at that time you know they benefit we

[15:48] benefit. So we probably want to include

[15:50] that as something you know that you know

[15:53] under the eligibility criteria you know

[15:55] that you know that is one of those

[15:57] things that we would say you know you

[15:58] either need to be able to do this or um

[16:02] you know you have to pre-arrange for us

[16:04] to get you to that point and that you

[16:05] can move on through you know whatever

[16:07] follows behind that. So,

[16:10] >> is that a big hassle for

[16:12] um and what did you say the woman's name

[16:14] is who's sitting with you?

[16:18] » Susan.

[16:19] Is that a big hassle for Susan if

[16:22] there are now a handful of accounts that

[16:24] don't get the discount? Do those bills

[16:26] have to be manually produced

[16:28] differently?

[16:30] >> No, we can actually fix them in the

[16:31] system. No, we can we actually can

[16:34] charge them a fee for not swapping out

[16:38] their meter.

[16:40] >> So it's not

[16:40] >> Would that be a cleaner way of doing it

[16:41] then to do a fee rather than taking away

[16:43] the discount?

[16:44] >> That I believe so.

[16:48] » I think so. The way that the rates are

[16:50] programmed in the billing software, the

[16:51] discount is all based on time. Um

[16:54] >> Okay.

[16:55] >> You bring up an interesting point

[16:56] though. If you do have something that is

[16:59] what you might not consider the most

[17:01] upto-date um should that be a

[17:04] consideration where you know

[17:08] maybe you're not eligible for whatever

[17:09] benefits are out there that's I've never

[17:11] thought of that before until right now.

[17:17] >> We uh we did find out that you can offer

[17:20] a discount by tier.

[17:23] So you could take the discount away from

[17:25] tier four or tier three, but still offer

[17:28] it for one and two. I'm not suggesting

[17:31] that as an idea. I'm just saying we

[17:33] recently were learning some things at

[17:35] Ununice and the program does allow you

[17:37] to do that.

[17:39] >> That's really interesting. I mean, I

[17:40] don't know. That would be a big hit for

[17:42] those tier four users to not have that

[17:44] discount.

[17:45] >> Plus, they wouldn't let anyone use water

[17:47] the last two days if they were going to

[17:48] go into tier four. Like they've been

[17:50] [laughter] shutting the water off at the

[17:51] uh

[17:52] >> Yeah. street. But yes, it is. I'm just

[17:54] throwing it out there because we we had

[17:56] learned it in the last couple weeks.

[17:58] >> Yeah, that is interesting.

[18:00] >> So, I mean, should we consider like a

[18:02] manual read fee for the meters that

[18:04] where people haven't been willing to

[18:05] swap them out?

[18:07] >> So, that is that is there now. Um

[18:09] >> Oh, it is. Okay.

[18:10] >> Yeah, there's the ability to do that.

[18:12] Um, you know, some of the other things,

[18:14] just to put some context on it, that

[18:16] have been looked at throughout the

[18:19] years, um, at one point in time during

[18:22] the 90s, they there was a look to see

[18:25] whether or not, um,

[18:28] Wakefield should entertain like a

[18:29] commercial residential split. At the

[18:31] time, uh, back then, the board of

[18:33] selectmen decided not to do that. They

[18:36] thought that it wasn't going to be, uh,

[18:38] businessfriendly.

[18:39] Um, and we've never really

[18:42] entertained that, you know, much more of

[18:45] a brief conversation just because the

[18:46] commercial base is so small. Um, you

[18:50] know, things like that. Um, one of the

[18:52] things that you probably could consider

[18:54] if we were looking at irrigation and

[18:56] outdoor use. Um, I know some communities

[18:59] will

[19:02] limit, you know, participation to, you

[19:04] know, a meter up to X size.

[19:08] um you know anything you know above and

[19:10] beyond whatever they consider is you

[19:13] know their threshold for change um

[19:17] eligibility potentially changes you know

[19:19] at that point um you know there's a

[19:23] whole bunch of different you know pieces

[19:25] to it and I think every community that

[19:27] you look at does things relatively the

[19:30] same but just slightly different enough

[19:32] um

[19:34] you know where it could be interesting

[19:36] to compare apples to apples on

[19:41] » I I think the um commercial versus

[19:44] residential rate and maybe we've talked

[19:45] about this at one point before but that

[19:48] gets into a big debate over what is

[19:50] truly residential versus what's truly

[19:52] commercial

[19:53] >> and like you know if there's a large

[19:56] apartment complex with a that's owned by

[19:58] some giant property management company

[20:02] um you know that's a residential

[20:05] building but it's it's being run as a

[20:08] business. So what is it? And I think

[20:10] that that argument may not be worth that

[20:14] hassle may not be worth the whatever

[20:17] you'd gain from it. I mean, ideally, I

[20:20] guess the, you know, for the residents

[20:23] of Wakefield, they would probably want

[20:25] commercial to be charged a little bit

[20:26] more because it is a business, but at

[20:29] the end of the day, it would probably be

[20:31] a minimal impact on people's water bills

[20:34] and a big time sync of people arguing

[20:37] about what's residential and what's

[20:39] commercial.

[20:42] >> Yes. Like some of the other things, you

[20:43] know, that can be thought about as we go

[20:46] on this process, too. like I'll use um

[20:48] our neighbors to the to the west um

[20:52] within the last year and a half maybe

[20:55] two years I forget exactly how long it's

[20:57] been um they were a similar setup to

[20:59] Wakefield uh and reverse but what they

[21:02] did was because as we know you know when

[21:05] you take these financial

[21:07] projections so like every cubic foot

[21:09] that we take out of sewer then you know

[21:11] alters the sewer rate to whatever degree

[21:14] um they decided two at the time. Um, and

[21:18] I'm pretty sure it's still functioning

[21:20] that way now. I'd have to confirm it.

[21:23] They were going to reverse and they were

[21:24] going to cap, you know, at least the

[21:26] first phase of participation at a

[21:27] certain number. That way, you know,

[21:29] there was this they could dictate the

[21:32] pace a little bit, kind of slow the roll

[21:34] out. That way, you know, not that it was

[21:37] probably ever feasible to to happen like

[21:39] that, but you didn't have 1,500 2,000

[21:42] properties all at one time. now all of a

[21:44] sudden

[21:45] swing the rate structure in a way that

[21:47] was going to take you know more you know

[21:49] drastic or you know more volatile rate

[21:53] action I guess to to counteract whatever

[21:55] that may be it might eliminate like 250

[21:57] or something like that but you know

[21:59] that's something that um we can keep at

[22:01] the back of our heads as you know we

[22:03] move forward and kind of review all this

[22:05] as well um so you know literally the sky

[22:08] is the limit there's nothing that's off

[22:10] the table as far as

[22:12] at least just getting the words out, you

[22:14] know, saying it out loud and seeing if

[22:15] it's something, you know, that might be

[22:18] worth exploring in more depth or might

[22:19] not be.

[22:21] >> Do you think capping it may incentivize

[22:23] people to do it faster?

[22:26] Like it might have the reverse effect

[22:28] because people are like they might not

[22:30] keep the program after they do these

[22:32] first 250 and I want to get in while I

[22:34] can so I'm going to fast track.

[22:37] >> That's a good It could

[22:40] >> I have no idea.

[22:42] >> Yeah. You never. Yeah. Right. Like

[22:43] almost like someone sees it as like it's

[22:44] a sale and they got to take advantage of

[22:46] it while it's there.

[22:47] >> Right. Right. Because they're worried it

[22:48] might go away again,

[22:50] >> right?

[22:50] >> You know, since it was gone for so long.

[22:52] I have no idea. But that's that's almost

[22:54] like the psychology of how I would think

[22:56] of it if I wanted it.

[23:00] Now, I think before, so the last time we

[23:02] did this and we put together some of

[23:04] like the

[23:06] some of the financials to it, I think

[23:08] the three scenarios we used, so we used

[23:09] like a low-end scenario where out of the

[23:12] 8,000 customers and change, uh, we

[23:16] picked, you know, 500 um, of the heavier

[23:20] users. So we what we ended up doing was

[23:22] taking the what we call non-watering

[23:25] bills which is your winter bills versus

[23:27] you know your seasonal fluctuation. What

[23:30] we did was we picked a benchmark and

[23:31] anybody they exceeded a 30% increase. We

[23:34] said this person or these persons are

[23:37] probably doing some sort of watering or

[23:39] something outside where you know their

[23:41] habits have changed now they're

[23:42] consuming more. So the first batch that

[23:45] we took was, you know, a sample set of

[23:47] 500 of those properties to say, here's

[23:50] who we think is doing this. Here's 500

[23:53] of them.

[23:55] Should that be the case, you know,

[23:57] here's what the fluctuation breaks down

[23:59] to from a dollars and cents standpoint,

[24:01] you know, and how it counteracts the

[24:03] water and sewer enterprises.

[24:07] Do we think 5,000 is I mean, excuse me,

[24:10] 500

[24:13] is that an appropriate

[24:15] sample size on the low end? So, I think

[24:17] what we end up doing is we did 500,

[24:19] a,000 and either 1500 or 2,000. I forget

[24:22] off the top of my head, but

[24:25] where we only ended up with the high end

[24:26] is, you know, by basically surveying

[24:29] everybody around and making some phone

[24:30] calls to just ask, you know, out of your

[24:32] customer base, how many customers, you know, generally

[24:37] take advantage of, you know, this type

[24:39] of thing. Um, and the mean at that time

[24:42] was, you know, about 12 to,400. So,

[24:44] we're a little north of that. But um I

[24:48] don't know if we want to see something a

[24:50] sample size smaller than that. Do we

[24:51] want to see bigger than that? Um

[24:56] I honestly felt like we really vetted

[24:58] this last year. I think we came up with

[25:00] draft language of like criteria that

[25:03] they would have to meet. And I know we

[25:05] went we went back and forth on some

[25:06] documents with wording and all. And I

[25:09] think I felt like I honestly I don't

[25:12] remember exactly all the details, but I

[25:14] remember feeling very comfortable that

[25:16] we had done our due diligence and that

[25:18] if we went in that direction, if the

[25:20] council decided they wanted to go in

[25:22] that direction, we felt sort of

[25:24] prepared. Um, I think the roll out would

[25:27] be fairly slow only because

[25:30] it's a it's a significant effort to get

[25:33] a plumber to come put in the new meter,

[25:35] you know, separate out your outdoor use

[25:39] into, you know, a separate line inside.

[25:42] Um,

[25:44] you know, it's not like it's not like

[25:45] people can just come down, pick up the

[25:47] second meter, and then it's done. Um, so

[25:50] I feel like there's going to be a wave

[25:52] of people who've always wanted to do it,

[25:54] who water a lot, who are going to sign

[25:56] on right away, and then I think it would

[25:58] just be like dribbs and drabs as, you

[26:00] know, houses turn over or new houses are

[26:02] built or

[26:04] that that's what I would think. And I

[26:08] mean, I I get that it it would raise the

[26:11] sewer rate for everybody else. Um,

[26:16] but I do think it's fair not to charge

[26:19] people for sewer. Um,

[26:23] if they're not using the sewer. So,

[26:25] yeah, I think I feel like we kind of

[26:26] went all around with this last time and

[26:29] I thought we ended up in a pretty good

[26:30] spot.

[26:32] So, what I would anticipate is to take

[26:35] the draft language that you're just

[26:36] talking about, send it back now that,

[26:39] you know, we've kind of refreshed a

[26:41] little bit and got this on the mind and

[26:44] then we can as we reread it, we can

[26:46] think of things like, oh, maybe we

[26:48] should have done this. One of the things

[26:50] I think now is is obviously more of a

[26:52] thing um than it was at the last time we

[26:55] looked at this. ADUs now are a thing.

[26:58] Um, that's reality. So you know how is

[27:01] that handled? um you know if an ADU has

[27:04] a separate you know meter account and

[27:07] you know we have like a duplex situation

[27:10] can each pro you know

[27:13] is should there be some consideration to

[27:15] if that's the case you know is there one

[27:17] irrigation system per property um do you

[27:19] allow each unit you know whether it be

[27:21] the the main address and the ADU um to

[27:25] be able to take advantage of it so those

[27:27] are kind of some of the little like

[27:29] things to iron out but I think um That's

[27:32] a little bit put in the cart before the

[27:33] horse. I think we need to get the

[27:35] baseline down first and then we can kind

[27:36] of layer some of that stuff, you know,

[27:38] into some of the things that we think

[27:40] about.

[27:42] >> Joe, [clears throat] uh, one one thing

[27:43] for everybody too. Um,

[27:46] and I might be going backwards here, but

[27:48] before I forget, um, my thought when you

[27:51] guys I know you're replacing a lot of

[27:52] pipe in Wakefield. How has that been

[27:55] going of getting response from residents

[27:57] so you can like change everything out

[27:58] you're supposed to? is like is that

[28:01] being held up at all?

[28:03] >> No, it's actually um kudos to the

[28:06] citizens of Wakefield. It's going

[28:07] actually goes quite well. I think um

[28:10] >> Oh, good.

[28:11] >> You know, there's always some someone

[28:14] that may be a little concerned. They

[28:15] have an older home and they think their

[28:17] plumbing, you know, they're questioning

[28:18] whether or not, you know, hooking up to

[28:20] a spigot or something is is going to do

[28:23] them more harm than good. Um but, you

[28:25] know, we always have our staff with

[28:26] whoever the contractors in there with

[28:28] them. Um, and we'll really bend over

[28:30] backwards to make sure that there's

[28:31] little to no impact as possible.

[28:34] Generally, the way that these projects

[28:36] have been going, uh, once the water gets

[28:38] done, the sewer's already been done, the

[28:39] drainage is done, so the next thing on

[28:41] the way is the road. Um, so they're more

[28:44] excited to see all this get out of the

[28:45] way so the street can get finished and

[28:47] we can leave them alone for a decade or

[28:48] two.

[28:49] >> So, you know,

[28:52] so good with that. No, I was just

[28:54] curious because that was like another

[28:55] thing, you know, could you look at that,

[28:56] you know, taking away their discount if

[28:58] they're not responding and letting you

[28:59] change those pipes, but if you're not

[29:01] having an issue, that's not nothing to

[29:03] worry about then.

[29:04] >> No, like I said, I mean, maybe it's an

[29:06] extra conversation or two, but there's

[29:07] never an there's no real, at least that

[29:10] comes to mind, no real like Hatfield

[29:12] McCoy contentious standoff or anything

[29:16] like that.

[29:16] >> Okay.

[29:17] >> So, that we don't have to worry about

[29:19] that. And then um too like just in

[29:22] discussion because as Elena said too, I

[29:24] know we we kind of did go through a lot

[29:26] of this and ironed it out uh last year

[29:28] in terms of say like the second meter.

[29:31] um if it does get to that point and

[29:34] there's more push or we want to review

[29:37] it more I think even some type of data

[29:40] you know make it you know plain for the

[29:42] average citizen if if we start going

[29:45] down that road of second uh meters like

[29:47] this is what it could cost potentially

[29:49] to the average you know water user some

[29:52] of you know easy language for people to

[29:55] understand because you know dollars

[29:57] matter to people and they're going to

[29:58] want to see it so it would save us

[30:02] hassle too

[30:03] >> and one of the components to that Chris

[30:05] too will obviously be you'll naturally

[30:08] have the discussion of you know

[30:12] should the moratorum change what should

[30:15] the rate structure be or not be for that

[30:19] does it follow the same thing as the

[30:20] domestic side or you know is it some

[30:24] communities consider it you know more of

[30:25] a luxury so um maybe it doesn't drop as

[30:29] low as tier one or tier too, but it it

[30:31] kind of lands somewhere in like the

[30:32] three range, right? So, that's one of

[30:35] the things as we're doing all that,

[30:36] we'll have to figure out um should

[30:39] something like that be in place, you

[30:41] know, what is really the offset. How

[30:43] much does this to the closest that you

[30:45] can be, right? There's going to be some

[30:47] margin of error because there's a lot of

[30:48] unknown, you know, as far as

[30:50] participation goes. And we have no idea.

[30:52] we can guess, you know, when you look at

[30:55] this stuff all the time, tendencies

[30:58] are pretty rhythmic as far as the

[31:00] pattern they are for a lot of people.

[31:02] So, you kind of have an idea of what

[31:04] could be expected, but you never know.

[31:05] As soon as somebody turns the faucet,

[31:07] everything changes. So, um you but to

[31:09] try to get as close as you can with that

[31:11] so you know your margin of error, your

[31:13] deviation isn't too big is where we're

[31:15] trying to get to.

[31:17] >> Okay. Thank you.

[31:19] Joe, I don't remember on that note if we

[31:22] landed on a recommendation last time as

[31:25] to what tier the minimum tier should be

[31:28] for the the second meter. I can't

[31:30] remember if we talked about it or not,

[31:32] but I do like the idea of like it's

[31:35] should start at least at tier 2 and I

[31:37] don't think anybody should be paying

[31:38] tier one rates for non-essential water.

[31:42] I don't think we got too far into it. Uh

[31:44] other than typically if history what

[31:48] we've mentioned were is that you know

[31:51] should the town council um elect to um

[31:56] I guess at this point go against what

[31:58] the previous versions of the advisory

[32:00] board's recommendation were. Um we had

[32:03] always requested the time to be able to

[32:04] at least take a peek at the rate uh a

[32:07] little closer. Um, but I think, you

[32:09] know, this is the 20th time I think

[32:11] we've done this in the last 16 or 17

[32:14] years. It probably makes sense to just

[32:16] say what what do we think this should be

[32:18] and included with it, right? To get that

[32:20] as well-rounded and as all-encompassing

[32:23] as it can be. That way, you know,

[32:25] there's no surprises should a decision

[32:27] get made and, you know, we're looking at

[32:30] implementing something new,

[32:32] something that doesn't come out after

[32:33] the fact and say, "Oh, yeah, I am by the

[32:35] way." Now, you know, the rate structure

[32:37] is going to be this. It's get it out, be

[32:39] transparent with it, and you know, let

[32:42] that all be part of all the criteria

[32:44] that goes to making that decision.

[32:47] >> So, if the council were to vote on that

[32:49] this year, would it would our

[32:51] recommendation be that it doesn't take

[32:52] effect until fiscal 28

[32:55] since we've already kind of set our

[32:56] recommendation for the fiscal 27 rate or

[32:58] we've already we're already in fiscal

[33:00] 27. So, would that be a 28?

[33:03] I would think um and correct me if I'm

[33:06] wrong if anybody thinks this timeline is

[33:08] off, but between now and sometime

[33:12] early late fall, let's say um

[33:16] DBW, the board, we've done what we can

[33:20] do. We're comfortable with whatever the

[33:21] package may look like, then present that

[33:24] to the town council. Um, and I would say

[33:26] that the recommendation would be, you

[33:28] know, don't the start date to this would

[33:31] be I'd probably say at the earliest July

[33:34] 1, 2027, just to give us the ability to

[33:38] go through the whole uh rate setting

[33:40] process. Um, get everything in place

[33:42] that we need to to be able to take

[33:44] applications for service and things like

[33:46] that. Um, you know, that way we don't,

[33:49] you know, hit the starting gun and then

[33:50] find out that, you know, we weren't as

[33:51] squared away as we needed to be. were

[33:53] scrambling to get this thing to roll

[33:55] out. So, I'd say by the earliest July

[33:58] one, I don't know if I don't think you

[34:00] probably need to push it any further

[34:01] than that should there be a change. Um,

[34:04] but I guess I won't know to complete

[34:07] comfort level on answering that until we

[34:09] see, you know, what it actually entails.

[34:12] >> Yeah, that makes sense.

[34:14] >> Yeah. No, I I agree with everything um,

[34:18] you know, that that we were talking

[34:19] about, you know, thank you Elena again

[34:21] for that. I I think it does make sense

[34:23] where I I also feel pretty good that we

[34:25] ironed it out pretty good last year. So,

[34:26] I guess just kind of revisiting the

[34:28] draft we did. Um,

[34:32] and I don't have a pool, but I'm just

[34:33] thinking I don't know how pools would

[34:35] fall into this as well. Obviously, they

[34:36] use a lot of water in the springtime to

[34:38] fill their pools, but uh, you know, I

[34:42] don't know how that would work in

[34:44] whether it would qualify or not. So

[34:47] that's an interesting So that has been a

[34:49] practice that has been going on uh good,

[34:52] bad or indifferent. It's always just

[34:53] been something that's been offered um by

[34:56] the town to folks. If you have a pool,

[34:58] you have a building permit for your

[34:59] pool, it's it's installed legally. Uh

[35:02] they'll take the dimensions of your pool

[35:03] and for a fill um the sewer charge will

[35:07] be deducted from that. I one of the

[35:09] things uh that may or may not be on the

[35:11] table depending on you know where this

[35:12] lands is if there is a reversal to the

[35:15] moratorum does the pool abatement uh

[35:19] practice that's been long-standing go

[35:20] away because someone now has the means

[35:24] to set themselves up to be able to just

[35:26] automatically have that abatement happen

[35:29] through the other program function. Um

[35:32] so depending on what A does might shift

[35:35] B one way or the other. That's why, you

[35:37] know, not to overload everybody, but it

[35:39] kind of makes sense to start thinking

[35:41] about these things alto together because

[35:42] they are nuanced and overlap a little

[35:44] bit here and there and the way one goes

[35:46] could in influence the other one. So

[35:49] >> that's interesting. I actually wasn't

[35:51] aware of that and again probably because

[35:52] I don't have a pool but um

[35:55] I guess that certainly leads to the

[35:58] argument. Now I do have an irrigation um

[36:01] as as the group knows you know so that's

[36:04] interesting where the pool gets the

[36:06] discount but the irrigation doesn't

[36:08] right so neither are going in the source

[36:10] system um so I guess that just that

[36:13] brings that question up too and maybe

[36:15] helps the cause for a second meter yeah

[36:19] >> so just um just on the pole abatement

[36:21] for a second um they're not offered it

[36:24] every year we do it for like a new liner

[36:26] or if it goes below half or it's a new

[36:29] liner or a brand new pool.

[36:31] >> A new liner or a brand new pool. So,

[36:33] it's not like we're just doing it

[36:34] because you want to top off your pool.

[36:36] >> Gotcha. Good to know. Thank you.

[36:43] » It seems to me like there's no harm in

[36:45] keeping that for people who have a pool

[36:47] but don't opt to do the second meter.

[36:50] >> Um

[36:51] >> because it the program is already in

[36:53] place and it seems easy to administer.

[36:56] um

[36:57] >> you're really accomplishing the same

[36:58] goal at the end of the day, right?

[37:01] >> Yeah. And then if you have the second

[37:02] meter, then you no longer have to

[37:03] request the abatement or you wouldn't

[37:05] qualify for it because you're already

[37:07] not not getting charged sewer for it,

[37:09] >> right? Someone at some point must have

[37:12] had a soft spot for pool owners or had

[37:14] one in the queue.

[37:15] >> Someone on the board had a pool

[37:17] >> record.

[37:19] I don't think you'll I don't think

[37:20] you'll ever find that in meeting

[37:22] minutes, but it could have been in the

[37:23] back of someone's head where they were

[37:24] [laughter] making the decision.

[37:26] >> No pool here. I know that.

[37:30] Oh,

[37:31] >> closest thing to be is upset in the rain

[37:33] today, [laughter]

[37:35] >> right? I think the only other thing that

[37:38] we didn't talk about that is on my mind

[37:39] is um Melrose does the if you don't have

[37:44] a second meter, you pay sewer as 90% of

[37:47] your water usage. And if you do have a

[37:49] second meter, you say pay sewer as 100%

[37:52] of your water usage. And that's based on

[37:54] the sort of industry average of how much

[37:58] water people tend to use outside when

[38:00] they don't have irrigation systems. Just

[38:01] sort of your like non like the amount of

[38:04] water you use a dose doesn't end up in

[38:06] the sewer. Either water that you drink

[38:07] or water that you use to water your

[38:10] plants or whatever. Um the industry

[38:14] averages something like eight or 9%. So

[38:17] 10% is a nice round number. Um, what I

[38:21] like about that is it mitigates a little

[38:23] bit of the change. If we were to

[38:25] suddenly go to having the second meters,

[38:27] it makes it so that people who don't get

[38:29] them, their sewer rate doesn't jump

[38:32] quite as high. And I think it's also

[38:34] very defensible with industry data. So,

[38:37] I like that system that we have in

[38:40] Melrose and I would advocate that we

[38:41] consider that.

[38:43] >> We can include that in uh the

[38:45] projections as an option to see it. I

[38:48] don't think I know we've talked about it

[38:49] before. I don't think we've actually

[38:50] ever laid it out, but um

[38:54] >> yeah, that'd be great. Thank you.

[38:55] >> Whatever we put together, we'll we'll

[38:57] include that so we can at least see it

[38:58] and talk it through,

[39:00] >> you know, with all the numbers everyone.

[39:03] >> And then I know we did this slash here

[39:05] and I again I forget the details as

[39:07] well, but did we I think we tried to

[39:10] estimate like what the impact would be,

[39:12] right, for losing that revenue, right?

[39:14] And I know that's obviously something we

[39:16] have to take into account as well.

[39:18] >> Correct. So that's really the the

[39:21] educated guess that comes out of this is

[39:23] to project you know again every 100

[39:26] cubic feet that comes out of sewer.

[39:29] What is the impact then across the board

[39:31] to sewer and then what does that mean to

[39:33] the overall rate structure? Because

[39:36] obviously you know choose a round number

[39:38] of $100 was shifted out of you know the

[39:41] revenue stream. We have to make that up

[39:43] somehow. what what size what's the order

[39:46] of magnitude of that impact. So that's

[39:48] kind of the main premise behind you know

[39:50] taking a couple sample sets to say you

[39:53] know at 500 people using you know x

[39:56] amount of water the value is this which

[39:58] means you know the rate that we set last

[40:01] year for $5 a cubic foot now turns to

[40:03] $55

[40:05] or you know whatever that may be. So how

[40:07] do you offset that? So that'll be you

[40:10] know a lot of um

[40:13] the deliverable I guess at at the end of

[40:15] the exercise of the projection is

[40:16] getting to that point to say okay you

[40:18] know how did the scale shift and does it

[40:21] move to such a dramatic difference that

[40:26] it gives you know apprehension um or you

[40:29] know is it close enough I guess what is

[40:31] the what is the margin where

[40:33] you know it's it's moving too much and

[40:35] then what is the margin where you know

[40:36] it's demonstrated a little bit movement

[40:38] But, you know, it's it's not something

[40:40] that we think is unreasonable,

[40:41] >> right?

[40:45] » All good points, guys. This is all good

[40:47] stuff.

[40:50] » One thing is So, does anybody think uh

[40:53] just is there anything that we think

[40:55] needs to be completely off limits that

[40:58] we don't want to focus any time or

[41:01] attention on? Um,

[41:05] as far as examining any of this or, you

[41:07] know, reviewing it in more more depth as

[41:10] we keep going,

[41:12] is there anything that's just a

[41:13] non-starter? Like, does anybody have any

[41:15] strong opinions one way or the other?

[41:17] You know, not to use an example, but you

[41:20] know, if you know, brick building should

[41:22] not get any sort of um program that

[41:26] requires them getting any discount or

[41:28] anything like that. Um, does anybody

[41:30] have any strong feelings one way or the

[41:32] other on anything that they think, you

[41:33] know,

[41:35] we should not focus on right away or we

[41:36] should focus on right away to rule it

[41:38] out?

[41:41] » No, I don't.

[41:42] >> No,

[41:42] >> not that I can think of at the moment.

[41:45] >> I mean, like, it's funny. I don't know

[41:47] why this popped in my mind, and I don't

[41:48] know. This is more commercial. I'm just

[41:51] thinking,

[41:53] you know, I I don't know. Do car washers

[41:54] pay the same price as everybody else?

[41:57] Um, you know, I guess we have a couple

[42:00] car washes in town. I don't know. Do

[42:02] they get a discount because of the abs,

[42:04] you know, the high volume they use or do

[42:05] we charge them more or do we change

[42:08] their structure? I don't know. And it

[42:09] just popped in my mind. I don't know

[42:10] why, but just wanted to share it with

[42:12] the group.

[42:15] >> Sure. Some of those car washers might

[42:16] even recycle the water.

[42:18] >> They probably have some type of

[42:20] >> filtration on I don't know. That's just

[42:22] >> they're smart. Yeah, if they're smart,

[42:24] they should. [laughter]

[42:26] There is a component to that uh where

[42:28] the two that I've personally been able

[42:30] to do recycle a portion of the water. I

[42:34] don't know if that's dictated by the

[42:36] plumbing code or some regulation um or

[42:40] not. I I don't know that off the top of

[42:42] my head, but um I know that is a thing

[42:45] and that generally does happen. Um how

[42:49] effective that is I guess is another

[42:51] story I couldn't even tell you. But um

[42:54] you if we want to explore that more, I

[42:56] don't mind digging that up to um explain

[42:59] that in better detail than this.

[43:04] » I'm fine either way. It was just a

[43:06] curiosity, I guess.

[43:08] >> It's a good point. It's worth looking

[43:10] into, I guess.

[43:13] >> Yeah. Yeah. And Joe, if you think of any

[43:14] other uses that are odd like that that

[43:17] are big users of water that doesn't end

[43:20] up in the sewer necessarily. Um or maybe

[43:23] that all does go to the sewer. I don't I

[43:25] don't know. After it all gets recycled,

[43:26] does the rest of it go to the sewer?

[43:28] >> Uh I'd have to look I the last one that

[43:31] was done. I'd have to look at the civil

[43:33] plan to see. I think it goes to an oil

[43:35] water separator and then it probably

[43:37] does. Um I'm not 100% but it's it's

[43:41] funny. Elena, you'll get this. So, our

[43:43] agreement with the MWA is up to renew.

[43:45] In the questionnaire that they send out,

[43:47] you know, is do you anticipate any users

[43:49] that go over 20 million cubic feet, you

[43:52] know, per year? And I'm I'm think I'm

[43:54] like, I don't even know what could

[43:55] possibly use so much water here in

[43:57] Wakefield that I would have to fill this

[44:00] out and say yes. Um,

[44:02] >> yeah,

[44:03] >> I know data centers are a huge thing.

[44:05] Um, you know, that's been

[44:07] >> that's been all over the Facebook page.

[44:10] >> Yeah. I don't know if that's a real Do

[44:12] you know if that's a real consideration?

[44:13] Because honestly, we should be

[44:15] >> No.

[44:16] >> It really is.

[44:18] >> I hope not. But

[44:19] >> I don't know. I mean, the only the only

[44:21] thing I can compare it to,

[44:23] >> you hear the stories about and and I'm

[44:25] very elementary on this, but you hear

[44:27] the stories about the Midwest and these

[44:28] things taking 30 million gallons of

[44:30] water a year a day or whatever it is.

[44:34] We had the little one up by the not

[44:36] little, I don't know, but you know, they

[44:38] had the one up by the lake. Um,

[44:41] I don't think they I don't think that

[44:42] facility was using water to the point

[44:44] where, you know, it was anything crazy.

[44:46] If for some reason somebody filled out a

[44:49] zoning board of appeals application or a

[44:51] building permit to do that, it's

[44:52] something we'd have to look at. But, uh,

[44:55] I can't think of anywhere in town that

[44:56] you could go where you could get that

[44:58] crazy amount of water and not impact

[45:00] everything across the board. I would I

[45:02] would almost think that the network that

[45:04] we have for the distribution system

[45:07] app to a certain size isn't going to

[45:09] it's just not going to support it. Um

[45:12] >> I wonder and maybe this is kind of like

[45:15] thinking too far ahead, but I wonder if

[45:17] the um if we do go with second meters if

[45:22] we should like just exclude data centers

[45:24] because honestly if any like giant data

[45:26] center tries to come into Wakefield and

[45:28] I know you know there for some reason

[45:31] the municipal gas and light board was

[45:33] talking about it in a closed door

[45:35] meeting. Um, so if that's something that

[45:38] we think might happen, I mean, my

[45:40] impression of those is that they are big

[45:43] business, big money- making, you know,

[45:46] so we just said right off the bat that

[45:48] they don't qualify for second meters,

[45:50] >> that they have to pay the sewer charge,

[45:53] >> whether they're using the sewer or not.

[45:54] I have no idea if the water's

[45:56] evaporating or if it's going into the

[45:58] sewer or what not, but I don't know. It

[46:00] might be nice for us to just start right

[46:02] out with that and let somebody challenge

[46:04] it then.

[46:06] have a business like that come in

[46:08] and start using all sorts of water that

[46:09] we, you know, go ahead

[46:12] >> our rate payers are paying.

[46:14] >> No, we can see if we could dig something

[46:16] up with that. Um, it brings up an

[46:18] interesting counter to that. You know,

[46:20] do you look at something like that and

[46:22] say

[46:23] at what point have you crossed what is

[46:26] reasonable and now you know you are that

[46:28] you're cooling down the computer that

[46:30] runs clawed or whatever they are. you

[46:32] know, at what point have you are you too

[46:35] big to even consider? You know, you you

[46:37] bring up a good point with that.

[46:39] >> Yeah, I agree there. You just, you know,

[46:42] get ourselves ahead of it. the seven.

[46:44] >> And honestly, maybe maybe whatever

[46:46] language we have about the discount

[46:47] program should say um you know any user

[46:51] who uses over x amount per year will be

[46:55] evaluated to see if they qualify for the

[46:58] discount or something something that

[47:00] gives us the opportunity to not give a

[47:02] 10% discount to somebody who's using

[47:04] like a tenth of the water of the entire

[47:07] town.

[47:07] >> Who is our who is our largest water user

[47:11] in town? There's a couple of commercial

[47:13] properties that have 4 inch meters that

[47:15] use a lot um

[47:18] >> close to you.

[47:20] >> What kind of industry?

[47:22] >> Construction materials.

[47:24] >> Um

[47:24] >> okay.

[47:25] >> The high school or the Galvin uh is a

[47:27] big one and Ann's shaking her head so

[47:29] I'm getting them right as I'm going. Um

[47:32] >> Mlullen the concrete company across the

[47:34] street. Who else?

[47:36] >> Other than non Wakefield you know

[47:38] buildings I should say. Uh, I would

[47:40] imagine that um, Colonial Point

[47:43] Apartments might be one of them down by

[47:45] Edgewater just because it's a good size.

[47:47] >> Yeah.

[47:48] >> Um,

[47:50] you know, things like that. But, you

[47:51] know, the 8,000 and change accounts over

[47:55] seven grand of that is all

[47:58] your residential, you know, or largely

[48:00] residential, you know.

[48:03] >> So, the second meters then, I mean,

[48:05] maybe we should be limiting them. We

[48:07] should be calling it

[48:10] outdoor water use meters

[48:12] >> so that so that someone's not saying,

[48:14] "Well,

[48:15] >> it's indoor water use, but it's

[48:17] processed water and it's not going into

[48:19] the sewer and so I don't want to have to

[48:20] pay for sewer." Like,

[48:22] >> we don't want to get it have to get into

[48:24] understanding every industry and what's

[48:26] happening inside their building.

[48:28] >> 100%.

[48:29] >> Yeah.

[48:30] >> Yes.

[48:32] >> Agreed.

[48:33] >> Great point. So, that's kind of the you

[48:36] just hit it. So that's this conversation

[48:38] in a nutshell, right? So that'll be

[48:39] something that we're we'll look through

[48:41] what we did and then we'll look through

[48:43] moving forward and you know define that,

[48:46] you know, what is this for? What are we

[48:48] trying to accomplish? Um

[48:49] >> yeah,

[48:50] >> is it outdoor watering? You know, are we

[48:53] going to allow for outdoor watering

[48:54] potentially and uh manufacturing that

[48:57] absorbs all the water and loses its

[48:59] steam or something like that? Is there a

[49:01] difference? Is there not a difference?

[49:03] Um I don't know at this point. I think

[49:05] the trouble with those is that like then

[49:08] we have to understand what process

[49:10] they're actually using inside their

[49:12] building,

[49:13] >> right?

[49:13] >> And we have to take their word for it

[49:15] that like the water flowing through this

[49:17] meter is all becoming steam, whereas the

[49:19] water flowing through the other meter

[49:21] ends up in the sewer. And I just think

[49:23] that's a level of like truth checking

[49:27] that we'd have to do that's way beyond

[49:28] what you guys should have to be doing.

[49:30] >> Yeah.

[49:31] >> Just to be like the devil's advocate

[49:33] kind of. But you know you mentioned

[49:35] based on the num the number of

[49:37] consumption um what do you think about

[49:40] like meter meter size so if someone

[49:42] wanted to put in an 8 inch just use an

[49:45] eight we don't have any eights so it's

[49:47] not going to offend anybody but somebody

[49:49] wanted to say hey I have an irrigation

[49:50] meter but it's going to be an 8 in you

[49:52] know is do you look at something like

[49:53] that and go that's way way way big you

[49:56] know comparatively across the board you could be this is something that's

[50:00] totally unrelatable to everything else

[50:02] that's going on and outside of the the

[50:04] box that any of this policy framework is trying to, you know, affect one way

[50:09] or the other, you know. to do take a

[50:12] peek at it like that and say, you know,

[50:14] some of the criteria for being eligible

[50:16] is the the connection or the metered um

[50:22] the deduct meter itself, you know, can't

[50:24] be larger than x amount of, you know,

[50:27] inches because at that point they've

[50:29] crossed the threshold where, you know,

[50:31] you're not watering your back long

[50:32] because you like to go outside with your

[50:33] dog and your kids or whatever. It's

[50:35] something totally,

[50:37] you know, different. I guess one

[50:39] question is though, like let's say

[50:40] you're a huge condo complex or apartment

[50:43] complex like the new ones up by the lake

[50:46] and you want to do it for your outdoor

[50:49] water,

[50:51] like should they be restricted from

[50:53] doing that because their meter size is

[50:55] too big or or is it the meter size for

[50:57] the outdoor water? And then if it's like

[50:59] a reasonable size for that meter, then

[51:02] it's well, but it's a deduct meter,

[51:05] right? So you're you'd be going by their

[51:06] main meter size. I don't know. I I feel

[51:10] like outdoor indoor seems like a a much

[51:12] easier distinction to me.

[51:14] >> Yeah.

[51:14] >> And then people aren't arguing about why

[51:17] the threshold is, you know, here versus

[51:20] there.

[51:22] >> But I don't know, maybe Matt uh Abrahams

[51:25] has a has some thoughts on that from

[51:28] other towns and stuff.

[51:33] » All good points. Yeah,

[51:37] they did individual meters at the head

[51:40] of the lake there, right? Aren't the

[51:42] apartments individually metered as well

[51:44] or no? I or no? I thought they did.

[51:49] >> Yes, they did. Uh they did um they have

[51:51] some meters in their building. We still

[51:53] only build each building one bill.

[51:55] >> Yeah. Okay, that's what I thought.

[51:57] They branch off inside and manage their

[51:59] own. Similar to like um

[52:03] Oh, not the I I don't know if the gas

[52:05] meters are set up that way. I won't say

[52:06] that.

[52:07] >> Lake Street do that. Those Lake Street

[52:08] condos, don't they have something like

[52:10] that? I remember from years ago. I'm

[52:12] going back to my meter reading days.

[52:15] >> Inside? I'm not sure. I don't think I

[52:17] was ever in that one. You know,

[52:18] sometimes you go by a commercial

[52:20] building, you see the bank of gas meters

[52:21] outside.

[52:22] >> Yeah. Yeah.

[52:23] >> The same thing but inside. in each one

[52:25] of those meters and then lead to

[52:26] whatever the apartment might be.

[52:28] >> Yeah,

[52:29] >> most most of them have a property

[52:31] management company that manages that and

[52:32] does the billing for them inside. But to

[52:34] keep it simple on us, you know, Susan's

[52:37] doing 32,000 bills a year. We don't want

[52:40] to give her, you know, six or 7,000 more

[52:42] because we're hitting all those. So,

[52:44] >> right.

[52:56] So I think at this point for me

[52:57] personally I think uh Ann and I have

[52:59] enough to start churning on it. Um

[53:04] like I had said in the beginning way

[53:06] back when I don't know if we want to set

[53:08] a benchmark or at least to get a draft

[53:09] of something you know to you folks which

[53:12] would probably be at a minimum what we

[53:15] did before uh maybe with some notes on

[53:17] it um you know with some of our thoughts

[53:20] and then um you know a draft of

[53:24] some hypothetical scenarios at least to

[53:26] take a peek at and see if it's something

[53:28] that we want to work with or we want to

[53:30] tweak a little bit to get us, you know,

[53:32] more comfortable. Um,

[53:36] say if we maybe want to shoot to do that

[53:40] after Labor Day, midepptember, that'll

[53:44] give us enough time. And I don't, it may

[53:46] seem like a lot. I only ask at the same

[53:48] time, uh, we have a pretty big trash

[53:52] contract. It is just hitting the

[53:54] streets. So, I'm sure we're going to get

[53:56] busy with questions and things in that

[53:59] nature. uh coming up at the same time

[54:01] and then you know it'll give us a little

[54:04] bit more time to look at the financials

[54:06] too and get that to you. But

[54:08] >> no, that works.

[54:10] >> We're open to basically whatever.

[54:13] >> That works here.

[54:14] >> Yeah, sounds good to me.

[54:19] » Okay. Anything else on that? Uh before

[54:21] we move on.

[54:25] » No, we have some homework. I'll get you

[54:27] some of the other stuff to start

[54:28] reviewing and uh we'll get rolling.

[54:30] >> Great.

[54:33] I just had a couple This is separate

[54:34] from everything. It's some new business.

[54:35] Just a couple questions I wanted to go

[54:37] over before.

[54:38] >> So, I just

[54:40] >> um because I've gotten a couple

[54:42] questions, so I just want to clarify it.

[54:44] The new bathroom that's going down by

[54:46] vets.

[54:47] >> Yep.

[54:48] Um, will that bathroom be open every day

[54:52] or what are what are the expectations

[54:54] for hours and how it's going to be

[54:56] managed for security? I know we kind of

[54:58] went over this before, but I I just want

[55:00] a refresher because I saw a posted, you

[55:03] know, the farmers market posting that

[55:04] it's coming, but I want to clarify that,

[55:08] you know, if that's open, that's

[55:09] obviously for, you know, there's other

[55:10] people that are using the field down

[55:11] there. Youth softball, the girls could

[55:14] use it and, you know, all sorts of

[55:16] people. So that building uh is

[55:19] pre-fabricated, but part of that when it

[55:21] was specked out was to include

[55:24] provisions for so if you come into town

[55:26] hall as an example, town hall's doors um

[55:31] unless unlocked function on a card

[55:32] access system. So with that, there'll be

[55:35] the ability to automatically unlock it

[55:37] at a certain time in the morning and

[55:39] then automatically lock it at a certain

[55:41] time at night. Um exactly what that is

[55:44] at this point. Um we don't know. We'll

[55:47] have to you know review that with the

[55:48] council. But I would say it'll probably

[55:51] start uh open itself um early in the

[55:54] morning sometime between 7 and 8 and

[55:56] then uh either close at dusk or

[55:59] depending on what's going on uh down at

[56:01] the field. Uh we can marry that to some

[56:03] of the schedules down there and

[56:05] seasonally you know it could be open

[56:06] later because we're using the fields.

[56:08] Um, so TBD, but I would imagine at a

[56:10] minimum it' probably be open from, you

[56:12] know, 7 7 o'clock in the morning, 8

[56:14] o'clock in the morning till dusk. Um,

[56:16] and then, you know, it'd be a sin to

[56:18] have the thing out there and not let,

[56:20] you know, anybody using the field at

[56:21] night use it. So, it'll probably marry

[56:24] their schedules once it gets a little

[56:25] bit closer. Um, and, you know, we'll ask

[56:28] the town council, you know, to kind of

[56:30] sign on to that and, you know, let us

[56:32] know if they think that is something

[56:33] that, you know, makes sense. Um, the one

[56:36] thing with it, uh, all the utilities to

[56:38] it are relatively shallow. Um, and the

[56:42] sewer is actually going to be pumped so

[56:44] we can, uh, get it up to the street. So,

[56:46] it will be open, uh, similar to our

[56:48] construction season. So, sometime

[56:50] midappril, uh, once there's no threat

[56:52] of, uh, the frost and the water freezing

[56:54] up. Uh, and it'll probably end up

[56:56] shutting down for the season sometime

[56:57] around Veterans Day. um you know so to

[57:00] basically only be out of service you

[57:02] know we were cold months for you know

[57:04] November December January February you

[57:07] know give or take um some of the reason

[57:10] behind that is the limitations with the

[57:11] construction because we had to keep

[57:12] everything you know up we couldn't get

[57:14] below the frost line so

[57:17] >> so it's just going to be for the you

[57:19] know non-winter

[57:21] it'll function actually the same as like

[57:23] what's up at Landeran Field now so um

[57:25] those open up once they're past the

[57:27] threat of freezing them up and they stay

[57:29] open and they stay in operation till up

[57:32] there they stay up till Thanksgiving or

[57:34] Veterans Day depending on when the game

[57:35] schedules go but it'll follow pretty

[57:37] much the same thing. Um if we caught

[57:40] abnormally warm win you know weather in

[57:42] November uh could we stretch that? Sure.

[57:45] Um but once we get the threat of that

[57:46] freezing up um it will ultimately you

[57:49] know be shut down for the season at that

[57:51] point.

[57:52] >> Yeah. And and another point to that

[57:53] though too and I don't know if it's

[57:55] talked about or when it does but just

[57:56] something that you might be able to add

[57:58] to like for instance you know when

[58:00] they're playing the baseball at night

[58:01] you know twi league or what softball

[58:03] down there you know I don't know if

[58:05] there's like someone that could be in

[58:07] charge for them that's going to be like

[58:08] the key holder so we have there's got to

[58:10] be accountability for that restroom I'm

[58:13] sure you know if people are going inside

[58:15] of at night we'd like to know who's in

[58:17] there you know is someone going to be

[58:18] responsible for opening the doors for

[58:20] them like when it I'm talking like after

[58:22] the automatic lock say at night you know

[58:25] after dusk

[58:27] >> I would think you just keep it would

[58:29] just be automatically open so um there

[58:31] should be CCTV on it too

[58:33] >> okay good

[58:34] >> as a deterrent so you know

[58:36] >> there is cameras good

[58:37] >> it will have all that functionality um

[58:40] one of the things we did in advance of

[58:42] this um there was a need based on some

[58:46] of the occupancies like the civic center

[58:48] picking up uh with rentals and things

[58:50] like that at night we added another um

[58:53] staff member on our second shift in our

[58:55] buildings division. So once that thing's

[58:58] in, we already have someone in place. So

[58:59] we'll we'll visit that every morning

[59:02] whether it's locked or not. Um make sure

[59:05] that it's in the condition that can be

[59:07] opened for everybody to use. And then

[59:10] somebody will be there every night

[59:11] making sure that you know before the

[59:13] doors shut and they can't be opened

[59:14] again till the timer flips back um that was put away in a state that's

[59:19] ready to go. So, we'll be there a bunch

[59:20] of times and then, you know, anytime the

[59:23] phone rings and the request comes in

[59:24] during the day to go there as well. So,

[59:26] >> okay.

[59:27] >> There'll be water fountain filling

[59:29] stations on the front of it, too. So, I

[59:31] would imagine it probably be pretty

[59:32] active once it gets in.

[59:34] >> Yeah.

[59:35] I mean, like, you know, all the

[59:37] concerns, it seems like you've addressed

[59:38] them. We got cameras there. You know,

[59:40] you got people watching at this

[59:42] security. some of the um you know

[59:44] concerns that I might have heard or even

[59:46] my own that kind of certainly puts them

[59:49] to bed.

[59:51] And I like that it's a community

[59:53] bathroom, too. It's not just for the

[59:54] farmers market. And not saying that

[59:56] that's what they said. I just it's just

[59:59] come across like is it really only going

[1:00:01] to be open for the farmers market? No,

[1:00:02] of course it's a community bathroom

[1:00:05] going to be able to use it. The

[1:00:06] [clears throat] only the only difference

[1:00:07] in there um specifically related to the

[1:00:11] farmers market is the way that there's a

[1:00:13] storage component to it. Um so we're

[1:00:16] able to size it where there's obviously

[1:00:18] the stuff we need from the utility

[1:00:20] standpoint for the electrical panel and

[1:00:22] some storage for custodial supplies and

[1:00:23] whatnot there and some outlets and stuff

[1:00:26] for some of the things we do. But then

[1:00:27] there's also a little bit of room. So

[1:00:29] their metal um sea container that they

[1:00:31] have there uh they won't need anymore.

[1:00:33] There'll be a separate closet only

[1:00:36] accessible to them. Um, will they be

[1:00:38] able to store the stuff in the back of

[1:00:39] it?

[1:00:40] >> I was going to ask you that. So, does

[1:00:41] that mean the shipping containers will

[1:00:43] be gone?

[1:00:44] >> Yes. Yep.

[1:00:44] >> Because I think it will look

[1:00:46] aesthetically better as well. I know we

[1:00:49] painted them and made them look nice. I

[1:00:50] know. But it's still a shipping

[1:00:52] container. [laughter]

[1:00:53] >> Yeah. Absolutely. We put in um

[1:00:56] we put in to see if we could get some

[1:00:58] grant funding uh for some solar on the

[1:01:00] roof of it. I was just about to ask

[1:01:02] that. generate yeah to generate the

[1:01:04] electricity for it. So

[1:01:06] >> maybe the light department could help us

[1:01:08] out.

[1:01:09] >> I think we got a pretty good shot with

[1:01:10] where we stand. Uh certainly they'll be

[1:01:12] involved, but um I would think I'm an

[1:01:15] optimist though, so I'll just clarify

[1:01:17] with that. But I would think that that

[1:01:18] is something that within the the first

[1:01:20] year of it being open, we should be able

[1:01:21] to achieve um without a doubt. So,

[1:01:26] uh, before I move on to my next

[1:01:28] question, would did anyone have anything

[1:01:30] else to add to the community bathrooms

[1:01:32] or anything before I go to my next

[1:01:34] subject? I don't want to interrupt

[1:01:35] anybody.

[1:01:36] >> No.

[1:01:37] >> Nope.

[1:01:39] >> Okay.

[1:01:41] The next thing I just wanted to to bring

[1:01:43] up or just talk about too, um, like when

[1:01:47] subcontractors are doing patchwork in

[1:01:50] Wakefield for say the light department,

[1:01:53] is there like a protocol that they got

[1:01:55] to follow for how they, you know, is it

[1:01:57] DPU standards that they got to follow

[1:02:00] for when they're doing their work like

[1:02:01] patchwork?

[1:02:03] >> So, there is there is a standard um for

[1:02:06] utility utility restoration. It's

[1:02:08] docket. It's D, it's called DTE 9822.

[1:02:13] I could send it to you. You can read it.

[1:02:14] But there is a patching uh specification

[1:02:17] for that. Um, you know, that is supposed

[1:02:20] to be adhered to by the DPU. Um, there

[1:02:23] are other times depending on what's

[1:02:25] going on. Um, when we were doing some of

[1:02:27] the work in the

[1:02:30] areas off of Vernon Street, um, we knew

[1:02:33] that right when they were done on the

[1:02:34] heels of that that the road needed to be

[1:02:36] completely reclaimed. Um, so we were

[1:02:38] able to work the gas and light

[1:02:40] department on

[1:02:42] changing a little bit of that scope

[1:02:44] because, you know, we were going to

[1:02:45] destroy it. Um, and they were able to

[1:02:47] help, you know, pay for a little bit of

[1:02:48] the finished, you know, for their

[1:02:50] portion of the finished mix at the end.

[1:02:51] But yes, no, that's a long way of saying

[1:02:54] yes, there is that. Yep. just because,

[1:02:56] you know, and again, I'm not being

[1:02:58] nitpicky, but you know, I know the roads

[1:03:00] are a touch touchy subject in Wakefield

[1:03:02] and everyone wants to see them improved,

[1:03:04] and I know you guys have plans in place

[1:03:06] and things that the town committed to

[1:03:08] with grants and stuff that we have to

[1:03:09] follow. But some of the the patchwork

[1:03:12] being done by the subcontractors, in my

[1:03:14] opinion, my professional opinion, I

[1:03:17] think could be improved. I think some of

[1:03:19] the the compacting, even the roadway

[1:03:22] cuts could be cleaner. You know, if if

[1:03:26] for instance the middle of a road, if

[1:03:28] there's a crown in the middle of the

[1:03:29] road, which obviously makes rain water

[1:03:32] and other things go to where it needs to

[1:03:34] go, and you cut down the center of the

[1:03:37] road 14 in, 12 in, however wide, and

[1:03:41] it's not compacted back perfect or you

[1:03:44] overcut and you start to get sloppy,

[1:03:46] automatically cutting into the crown of

[1:03:48] a road. Obviously, we know that that's

[1:03:50] going to that the integrity of the road

[1:03:52] is is is compromised. So, I I just I

[1:03:56] don't know if we could send something to

[1:03:58] the light department in a friendly way

[1:04:01] or talk about it, but I I do feel like

[1:04:03] some of the roadway work, and not just

[1:04:06] recently, over the past couple years, I

[1:04:08] think could improve with some of their

[1:04:11] um finish work with it as well. And I

[1:04:13] know a lot of it's temporary, but

[1:04:16] temporary to me is weeks and months, not

[1:04:19] a year and a half with some of them I've

[1:04:22] looked at. So I

[1:04:24] >> if we could review that with them or

[1:04:26] just talk about or a friendly reminder,

[1:04:28] whoever's inspecting them too, you know,

[1:04:31] I I do think we could improve there.

[1:04:36] Totally noted. So, uh, one of the other

[1:04:38] things that we have we will have going

[1:04:39] on this fall, um, myself, Bill, our town

[1:04:43] engineer, we need to redo some of our

[1:04:45] construction standards, um, and any of

[1:04:48] the drafts I have written for that are

[1:04:51] pretty iron. Um, good

[1:04:53] >> for the same reasons that you say,

[1:04:54] right? We don't want to mill a road and

[1:04:56] find out that they blew through a trench

[1:04:57] and now we have to patch it before we

[1:04:58] can pave it. Um, you know, I will say

[1:05:01] one of the other things from the

[1:05:02] coordination standpoint, you may or may

[1:05:04] not have heard, um, there's, you know,

[1:05:06] been a lot of activity of, you know, why

[1:05:08] haven't you paved Main Street and

[1:05:09] Greenwood? Why haven't you paved Main

[1:05:10] Street and Greenwood? I can tell you

[1:05:12] that the gas work that's happening down

[1:05:13] there is because, you know, during those

[1:05:15] meetings where we try to coordinate all

[1:05:17] of our priorities together. One of them

[1:05:19] was we want to go down to Melrose and

[1:05:20] start paving our way back to the center

[1:05:22] of town and they get to get out of the

[1:05:23] way. So, you know, that's happening now

[1:05:26] because it's in our crosshairs. cuz we

[1:05:27] want to get there in the very near

[1:05:29] future. That just happens to go first.

[1:05:33] >> Thank you,

[1:05:34] >> Joe. On that note, I've been biking a

[1:05:37] lot lately and that section of Main

[1:05:40] Street from like Oak down to the Melrose

[1:05:43] line is so bad.

[1:05:45] >> It's like dangerous to ride on. So,

[1:05:47] that's exciting to hear that paving is

[1:05:49] coming. Um, I'm going to give a little

[1:05:52] plug for, you know, the bike lanes that

[1:05:55] we did in Melrose. Um, they are

[1:05:58] admittedly a tiny bit substandard width,

[1:06:01] but I've found them to be safer than not

[1:06:04] having them. And I know bike lanes can

[1:06:06] be a very touchy subject in Wakefield,

[1:06:08] but I think with the right um with the

[1:06:12] right outreach, assuming that the road

[1:06:13] width is essentially the same once you

[1:06:15] cross, you know, because we Melrose has

[1:06:20] half of the road and Wakefield has the

[1:06:21] other side of the road for that awkward

[1:06:23] piece up by the town line. Um

[1:06:27] >> by Bay State Road there. Yeah.

[1:06:29] >> Yeah. Yeah. Where where Melrose owns one

[1:06:30] side of the street and Wakefield owns

[1:06:32] the other side. I think the width is

[1:06:34] essentially the same. So, we just ended

[1:06:35] our bike lane for Melrose at that

[1:06:38] transition. Um,

[1:06:41] but in essence, what we have is we

[1:06:45] always had very small painted um parking

[1:06:48] lanes. They're only like 6 and 1/2 ft

[1:06:51] wide or something, but they were always

[1:06:53] like that before. And then we were able

[1:06:55] to add like a four to four and a half

[1:06:57] foot wide bike lane because the road is

[1:07:00] just enormous and there's really no need

[1:07:02] for anyone to drive. You know, you don't

[1:07:04] need more than 11t lanes with even with

[1:07:06] a bus route. So there's no reason for

[1:07:10] people to feel like they need to drive

[1:07:11] with this enormous width. And I would

[1:07:14] love to see just what we have up to the

[1:07:17] Wakefield line just extended into

[1:07:19] Wakefield when that gets paved. And it

[1:07:21] wouldn't have to change anybody's

[1:07:22] parking. um you know all the things that

[1:07:24] are controversial about it normally

[1:07:25] wouldn't have to change presuming that

[1:07:27] you have essentially the same width in

[1:07:29] Wakefield that you do in Miller.

[1:07:31] >> Definitely something that to look at

[1:07:33] when they're in there um you know

[1:07:35] polishing up the design work. The only

[1:07:37] thing that gets a little interesting um

[1:07:40] when you get in that whole area

[1:07:42] where kind of bottlenecks in the area of

[1:07:44] like where Oak and Maine and um you know

[1:07:47] Greenwood Street kind of all tied

[1:07:49] together you know that's

[1:07:51] >> Oh yeah. I don't think you'd have room

[1:07:52] there.

[1:07:53] >> No, I mean I almost wish if you relayaid

[1:07:55] Wakefield that would have been a 60 80

[1:07:56] foot rightway right there too and then

[1:07:58] >> you would have been golden. Um but you

[1:08:01] know it's not and there's there's a

[1:08:03] bunch of stuff there. But um duly noted.

[1:08:06] >> Well, if we're talking pipe dream stuff,

[1:08:07] we should underground all the electric

[1:08:09] in that intersection too because it is

[1:08:11] the biggest mess. Oh, yeah. It's I I

[1:08:15] looked at the horizontal width when they

[1:08:16] were doing the gas work there and it

[1:08:20] there's a there's anything you could

[1:08:22] think about stuffing into the ground

[1:08:24] there [clears throat] is there on top of

[1:08:26] whatever is there that nobody wrote

[1:08:27] down, you know, back

[1:08:30] 100 years ago, too. It's uh it's

[1:08:33] definitely a busy busy spot. And there's

[1:08:35] some there's some big ticket stuff

[1:08:36] there. down by Subaru. There's actually

[1:08:38] a brick um trunk sewer, so 25 ft deep

[1:08:42] that run.

[1:08:43] >> I like that you're still calling it

[1:08:44] Subaru. [clears throat]

[1:08:45] [laughter]

[1:08:46] >> Towny, right?

[1:08:47] >> Showing your age, Joe. Show

[1:08:49] >> I don't think Subaru's been there for

[1:08:50] like at least 10, 12 years.

[1:08:52] >> Geez, I can't believe I did that because

[1:08:54] it's been Hallmark Health now for quite

[1:08:56] a while. [laughter]

[1:08:57] >> But no, I mean that's fine.

[1:08:59] >> Shame on me. But I guess shame on you

[1:09:01] for realizing what I was talking about.

[1:09:03] >> I'm 22 years in now. I still call Subaru

[1:09:06] in Greenwood. So

[1:09:07] >> yeah, [laughter]

[1:09:09] I didn't call it I could have called it

[1:09:11] McDonald's or like Liberty Bell or

[1:09:13] something.

[1:09:14] >> Liberty Bell.

[1:09:15] >> Brighgams.

[1:09:19] >> I love that Brighgams there.

[1:09:21] >> Oh, that was great. They had a steak and

[1:09:23] cheese that was really good there, too.

[1:09:24] Not just the ice cream.

[1:09:26] >> It was huge, too, wasn't it?

[1:09:28] >> It was massive. Massive.

[1:09:31] >> I'm jealous. I'm not a town, so I don't

[1:09:33] know about this. Oh,

[1:09:34] >> well, and I'm not a towny either, but

[1:09:36] I'm I'm just 22 years in, so I caught

[1:09:38] the tail end of like Subaru and Brig

[1:09:40] Bighgams and some of the other stuff.

[1:09:42] And the the gas station will always be

[1:09:44] Fast Freddy's to me. We all still call

[1:09:47] it Fast Freddy's.

[1:09:48] >> Oh, yeah.

[1:09:49] >> It's like Mobile Mart or some nonsense

[1:09:51] now, but I'm I'm anti-Mobile Mart. It's

[1:09:53] still Fast Freddy's.

[1:09:54] >> I still call I still call the one up by

[1:09:56] your parents. How is Chris? It's Little

[1:09:58] Peach. It's still Little Peach. Sorry.

[1:10:00] >> Little Peach. Oh, we had one of those

[1:10:02] when I grew up in Lexington, too. Yeah.

[1:10:04] I still call it Little Peach, too.

[1:10:07] >> Slush puppies.

[1:10:10] >> I I was just going to jump in quick, I

[1:10:12] guess. Um, and Joe, you kind of got my

[1:10:14] attention when you said you're looking

[1:10:15] at different, I guess, standards for,

[1:10:18] you know, public works or paving and

[1:10:20] whatnot. Um, and I guess just while

[1:10:22] we're on it, so like a little pet peeve

[1:10:24] of mine is when they pave, if they could

[1:10:26] just get the sewers to the same level of

[1:10:29] the street. I know that drives me bonk

[1:10:32] is when you're driving and the sor's

[1:10:33] like six inches lower and it's like they

[1:10:35] just pave the street and you get this

[1:10:36] big bump, right? And uh yeah, I mean you

[1:10:39] can see they get scraped too cuz they're

[1:10:40] so low. It's just like And by the way,

[1:10:42] it's not just Wakefield. I know that

[1:10:44] happens in a lot of towns, but just to

[1:10:46] keep the sewer level with the new

[1:10:49] pavement and the street I like partic

[1:10:51] I'm trying to think what is one uh is it

[1:10:53] Salem Street where they paved? Uh

[1:10:56] >> lol.

[1:10:58] Yeah. So, you know where I'm talking.

[1:10:59] The sewers are like 6 in down and it's

[1:11:01] like you got to avoid them because it's

[1:11:04] a good drop and it's a brand new paved

[1:11:06] road and you know if you go over it in

[1:11:07] your car it's like a pothole, right? So,

[1:11:10] that's all just

[1:11:11] >> Yeah. Is that a matter of a standard of

[1:11:13] like concrete around it? Um or you know

[1:11:17] is there something that we're doing

[1:11:18] differently that makes it sink that we

[1:11:21] could do a different way? No, typically

[1:11:24] the standard is concrete uh by I think

[1:11:27] it holds up the best. Uh I do know that

[1:11:30] the ones that Shane mentioned there um

[1:11:33] we know about we have raised that issue

[1:11:36] and are expecting the remedy to be

[1:11:38] delivered so that it is that it was

[1:11:41] included in the spec. There's a couple of other things out

[1:11:44] there too. There's some spalling on some

[1:11:46] stuff that's going to get replaced. So,

[1:11:48] um, without going too far into it, um,

[1:11:51] >> that has all been brought up and

[1:11:52] addressed and, you know, we basically

[1:11:54] put it back to say not what we expect,

[1:11:57] not what we asked for the deliverables,

[1:11:58] so let's fix it.

[1:12:00] >> Awesome.

[1:12:00] >> Good point, Shane. And again, back to

[1:12:02] it. It's just, you know, we live in a

[1:12:05] town that it's a beautiful town. The

[1:12:07] taxes aren't the cheapest around. I

[1:12:09] think we all know that. And, you know,

[1:12:11] you want to get the most bang for your

[1:12:12] buck for all the residents. And that's all we're looking for. When

[1:12:16] you're telling the contractor, it's,

[1:12:17] hey, we got residents here that are

[1:12:19] paying the the bill and, you know, they

[1:12:21] have expectations and this is what we

[1:12:22] expect.

[1:12:24] >> You're not asking for anything uh fancy,

[1:12:27] Shane. You know, you just want the the

[1:12:29] sewer to be where it's supposed to be.

[1:12:31] That that's asking proper proper um

[1:12:34] construction.

[1:12:35] >> Right. Right.

[1:12:37] And Chris, speaking of proper

[1:12:39] construction, Joe, I want to give kudos

[1:12:41] to the project on Pitman

[1:12:45] Grafton.

[1:12:46] >> Oh yeah,

[1:12:47] >> that whole project. The, you know, it

[1:12:49] seemed like it was taking a really long

[1:12:51] time. I had some neighbors say like,

[1:12:52] "Oh, it seems like it's taking forever."

[1:12:54] But I said, "Well, it's taking forever

[1:12:56] because everything's being done right."

[1:12:58] Um, it was so nice to see all the curb

[1:13:01] ramps going in. you know, things that

[1:13:04] I've I've always felt like Wakefield has

[1:13:06] not

[1:13:08] >> necessarily done the best job with, like

[1:13:11] consistency. I mean, I know sometimes

[1:13:13] the excuse is like, well, this is a WMG

[1:13:16] paving job, so we're not going to do the

[1:13:18] ramps. But I'm not sure that really

[1:13:20] passes muster with um the regulations.

[1:13:23] And so, I'm just really glad to see how

[1:13:25] thorough of a job was done on that. I

[1:13:27] mean, the curbing looks great, the

[1:13:29] sidewalks look nice, the curb ramps look

[1:13:31] great, the pavement looks great. Um,

[1:13:33] I've been biking on that, too, and it's,

[1:13:36] you know, it's like butter going down

[1:13:38] those streets. So, yeah, they did a

[1:13:41] really nice job.

[1:13:42] >> I'll even add to that, Elena, too, with

[1:13:43] the the ADU ramps, uh, now that I'm

[1:13:46] pushing a a baby carriage.

[1:13:48] >> Yeah, right.

[1:13:48] >> It helps, right? It's very handy.

[1:13:51] >> Yep. Makes a big difference.

[1:13:52] >> Oh, yeah.

[1:13:52] >> Every crossing that exists. But kudos to

[1:13:54] the residents down there because it was

[1:13:56] tough, you know, relaying the fact that

[1:13:59] there was so much drainage and stuff

[1:14:00] that happened that we really wanted to

[1:14:01] let it sit through the winter to freeze,

[1:14:03] thaw, and settle.

[1:14:04] >> Yeah.

[1:14:05] >> You know, I can understand everybody

[1:14:08] gets excited and wants the road paved.

[1:14:10] Let's let's go. Um but, you know, I

[1:14:12] think the end product is worth worth it.

[1:14:14] So,

[1:14:15] >> yeah, I think it's terrific. Um, also,

[1:14:18] just to quickly mention the Greenwood

[1:14:20] Oak, the fiveway crazy intersection. Um,

[1:14:24] I'm happy to see that we got the grant

[1:14:26] money and that that's moving forward.

[1:14:28] Personally, I think the the curve of the

[1:14:32] um of the road, like when you turn off a

[1:14:34] green street, when you come up and you

[1:14:35] turn off a green street, when you take

[1:14:36] the right, there's that jog in the

[1:14:39] center line, and I know I had mentioned

[1:14:40] it to Bill once during the pilot. Um,

[1:14:43] and he had said, you know, it's

[1:14:44] deliberately aggressive to be to try to

[1:14:46] like calm traffic, but, um, it's going

[1:14:50] to be a little too aggressive. people

[1:14:51] are going to go over the line there. I'm

[1:14:53] sure that's going to happen. So, I don't

[1:14:56] know if there's an opportunity like if

[1:14:58] it's all going to get final paved and

[1:14:59] then new striping is going to go down at

[1:15:01] the end. But, if that's the case, it it

[1:15:04] might be good to just soften that a tiny

[1:15:06] bit because I think everything else

[1:15:08] provides the traffic calming. I don't

[1:15:10] think you need that one extra little jog

[1:15:12] in the center line.

[1:15:14] >> No. I think seeing the new vertical curb

[1:15:16] getting brought in close to the center

[1:15:17] line too sometimes makes you look at

[1:15:19] those curbs and say, "All right, maybe

[1:15:21] we could soften this a little bit

[1:15:22] because you literally have the lane

[1:15:25] right on you and it's right there. You

[1:15:27] hit it, you're going to know."

[1:15:28] >> Yeah. Yeah. But otherwise, I think it's

[1:15:30] great. It's kind of funny seeing people

[1:15:32] like, you know, nobody knows what to do

[1:15:34] right now because it's half the old way

[1:15:36] and half the new way. And

[1:15:39] Yeah. But I'm just kind of driving it

[1:15:41] the new way knowing that that's where

[1:15:42] it's headed.

[1:15:46] It's always been one of those

[1:15:48] intersections that it's a tricky

[1:15:49] intersection. So, I'm like extra careful

[1:15:51] in, you know, some someone on one of the

[1:15:54] public meetings on one of the traffic

[1:15:55] advisory committee meetings referred to

[1:15:57] it as it's less of like a regulation and

[1:15:59] it's more of a negotiation. And I said

[1:16:01] that is the best description of that

[1:16:03] intersection because you always you get

[1:16:04] there and you're like, "All right, I I

[1:16:06] think I have the right of way, but are

[1:16:08] you going to go? Should I go? Who's

[1:16:09] going to go?"

[1:16:11] I will say too, I was a little nervous

[1:16:13] about the four-way intersection closer

[1:16:15] to my house with where um Pleasant

[1:16:17] Street uh meets Salem Street.

[1:16:20] >> Oh, yeah.

[1:16:21] >> They installed those stop signs and I

[1:16:23] thought people would be blown. It

[1:16:24] actually has calmed down the traffic

[1:16:26] around there. Speeding.

[1:16:28] >> Yeah,

[1:16:28] >> because I think we all know speeding in

[1:16:31] Wakefield's a little uh crazy.

[1:16:34] I'm on Vernon Street. I have cars going

[1:16:36] by my house at 50 60 miles an hour. Like

[1:16:38] it's nothing. It's crazy,

[1:16:41] but I have noticed an increase in police

[1:16:44] presence, so hopefully it will slow

[1:16:47] people down.

[1:16:50] Is there any other um new business or

[1:16:53] anything else?

[1:16:55] >> No. The only thing to mention um you we

[1:16:58] have our trash contract out on the

[1:16:59] street. So, um

[1:17:03] we'll loop you in uh once we start

[1:17:05] seeing some stuff back from that. But um

[1:17:09] we'll see what happens. Uh trash,

[1:17:11] recycling, collection, yard waste. So

[1:17:14] see

[1:17:15] >> see what we get back and see what uh

[1:17:17] what the future looks like there.

[1:17:18] Hopefully it's not uh too crazy of a

[1:17:21] price adjustment, but

[1:17:23] >> I don't know. Who knows?

[1:17:26] Hopefully not. We'll see.

[1:17:28] >> I know. I hope not either.

[1:17:30] >> You're running out of choices is the

[1:17:31] problem. There's not a lot of

[1:17:34] >> companies out there.

[1:17:35] >> Yeah. Yeah, the the middle ground is um

[1:17:38] smaller. You know, the major players are

[1:17:40] the major players and you know, the

[1:17:44] small ones are small. That in the

[1:17:46] middle, someone that maybe could service

[1:17:48] Wakefield, but it's a little bit, you

[1:17:51] know, much for them. [clears throat]

[1:17:53] >> Don't really exist anymore. They've all

[1:17:55] kind of been gobbled up by the

[1:17:56] corporations or

[1:17:57] >> Yeah,

[1:17:58] >> seems like it's time go that way.

[1:18:00] >> I hate seeing that. I'm not going to

[1:18:01] lie. I'm [laughter] seeing it more and

[1:18:03] more all these corporations buying

[1:18:05] everything. Even in my industry, it's

[1:18:07] like the mum and pops are slowly, you

[1:18:09] know,

[1:18:10] >> selling off and I don't know. We'll see.

[1:18:12] I guess

[1:18:14] I don't know if it's the best.

[1:18:15] >> I agree. I'm with you, Chris. I'm with

[1:18:17] you.

[1:18:19] >> Okay. Well, if there's nothing else, I

[1:18:22] uh we can just wait to pick a day, too.

[1:18:24] I know we got some drafting and stuff to

[1:18:27] do that um we can wait for because I

[1:18:29] think you said what is it after Labor

[1:18:30] Day you would think?

[1:18:32] >> Um yeah, I would think so because uh

[1:18:34] that'll give Ann and I some time and

[1:18:36] then um you know obviously the first

[1:18:39] weeks of school and whatnot whether you

[1:18:41] have

[1:18:43] people influencing you in that regard or

[1:18:45] not always seem to tend to be busy. But

[1:18:47] by that point we should have a solid

[1:18:48] baseline for you. Um, and then, you

[1:18:51] know, it'll really just be trimming up,

[1:18:54] you know, some of the things we may or

[1:18:55] may not want to see different or tweaks,

[1:18:56] but we'll get everything else out to you

[1:18:58] early, um, by the end of this week so

[1:19:01] you have it, you can see it, and then,

[1:19:03] um, if you have anything in the

[1:19:05] meantime, don't be shy. We can add it

[1:19:08] all into everything so everybody has it.

[1:19:11] >> Great.

[1:19:12] >> Sounds good.

[1:19:14] >> Thank you.

[1:19:14] >> Well, I hope it goes really slow between

[1:19:16] now and then.

[1:19:19] We shall see.

[1:19:20] >> We only only get a few months of summer,

[1:19:22] right? So

[1:19:23] >> that is true.

[1:19:24] >> I can't believe it's almost August.

[1:19:26] >> Yeah, I know. [clears throat]

[1:19:27] So say we got to slow down. Slow down.

[1:19:30] >> Well, if no one has anything else, I'll

[1:19:32] let detain a motion to adjourn.

[1:19:35] >> I will second that.

[1:19:37] >> All in favor?

[1:19:39] >> I

[1:19:41] >> motion carries three nothing.

[1:19:45] Thank you everyone.

Wakefield Advisory Board of Public Works Meeting: July 22, 2026

Agenda

Transcript