[0:00] Okay.

[0:00] » So, good evening everyone. This is uh

[0:05] Wednesday, September 2nd. Um meeting of

[0:09] the Wakefield Conservation Commission

[0:12] starting at 7:04 p.m. Um first order of

[0:16] business is roll call. Um so I'll do

[0:19] that now. I'll go from left to right. Um

[0:23] James

[0:26] » Here.

[0:29] Drew

[0:30] » Here,

[0:31] » Barbara

[0:32] » Here,

[0:33] » And I am here. Um, Jennifer and Paul are

[0:37] both um out unavailable today, and I am

[0:41] stepping in for Paul as chair. Um, our

[0:45] next order of business is approval of

[0:47] the meeting minutes for uh August 18th,

[0:50] 2026.

[0:51] Um, I'm going to suggest we um defer

[0:55] those to the next meeting. Um,

[0:59] so Paul and Jennifer um have a chance to

[1:01] approve them. I I saw some comments come

[1:04] through. Did anybody else have comments?

[1:10] » No.

[1:11] » Okay. So, if someone could make a motion

[1:14] to defer the meeting minutes till next

[1:17] meeting.

[1:20] I [clears throat] make a motion that we

[1:21] defer the meeting minutes um from uh I

[1:25] think it was August 18th um to our next

[1:28] meeting which would be September 19th.

[1:30] » Okay,

[1:31] » I'll second.

[1:32] » Thank you. Um Barbara,

[1:36] » Um yes.

[1:39] » Yes.

[1:40] » James,

[1:41] » Yes.

[1:43] » And I'm a yes. Okay. 705. Um request for

[1:47] determination of applicability

[1:50] continued for 23 Montrose Avenue. Um

[1:54] Lawrence Gamps for the construction of

[1:56] 24x 22 two-car garage with associated

[1:59] utilities within 100 ft of wetland

[2:01] resource area.

[2:03] Um

[2:04] Ethan, do you want to summarize here?

[2:11] » Sure. So this had been continued from

[2:13] the last meeting um where we had

[2:16] um reviewed the RDA request and I think

[2:19] since that meeting we had all made site

[2:21] visits. Um so we are just looking at it

[2:23] now and

[2:25] um looking to make a determination on

[2:27] that whether you want to approve the

[2:30] work or ask for a notice of intent.

[2:37] » So I see um Nick Dola is here who we

[2:40] spoke with at the site visit. So, thank

[2:43] you very much, Nick, for allowing us to

[2:45] to do that.

[2:47] » Yeah, of course. Um, I had a couple of

[2:51] updates and follow-ups just for

[2:53] information that was requested if we

[2:55] wanted to start there maybe.

[2:57] » Okay, sure.

[2:59] » Uh, yeah. So, uh, after the site visits,

[3:02] I know we had discussed the 10 by 12

[3:05] section of new pavement not being enough

[3:07] enough to pull a vehicle into the

[3:09] garage. Mhm.

[3:10] » Uh so for the updated plan that I

[3:13] submitted to Ethan, I've increased the

[3:15] size there to a 15x 12 section to extend

[3:19] it a bit further uh for ample room. So

[3:22] that was updated. Uh I have the update

[3:26] if you would like me to share my screen,

[3:27] but I think that was in the meeting

[3:29] material that Ethan provided as well.

[3:31] » Okay.

[3:35] Um so yeah that was the first update and

[3:38] then the second one uh I know you had

[3:41] requested the approximate uh imperous

[3:44] area to be added. Uh and for that I

[3:49] approximated 520 square ft. So that

[3:52] would be the new garage plus the new

[3:54] section of pavement uh minus the shed

[3:58] that's already there and being removed

[3:59] and then another section of pavement

[4:01] that's essentially going to be torn up

[4:03] for for the garage.

[4:08] » Thank you for that.

[4:11] » Yeah.

[4:13] And then the last item that I had was

[4:16] the uh wetland determination was

[4:18] incorrect on the GIS maps. Uh, so I know

[4:20] we discussed this previously, but Ethan

[4:22] had also uh come out and taken a

[4:25] measurement from the corner of where the

[4:29] garage would be closest to the wetland

[4:30] to where the grass essentially turns

[4:33] into the taller weeds and wetland area.

[4:36] And I believe Ethan, we marked that at

[4:38] 32 feet. Is that is that correct?

[4:42] » Yes, that's about correct.

[4:44] » Okay.

[4:47] Um,

[4:48] yeah, that that's all the updates that I

[4:50] had.

[4:51] » Okay, I think that's what I observed.

[4:55] Um,

[4:57] Barbara Drew, did you want to add

[4:59] anything or have any questions?

[5:03] » Um, I don't have a copy of the new map,

[5:07] [clears throat] but the 15 ft would be

[5:08] extending away from the garage. um not

[5:12] going towards the so the 12 foot would

[5:15] be front to back so to speak and the 15

[5:18] um foot measurement would be starting

[5:21] from the garage door

[5:24] across. Right.

[5:25] » Correct. Yeah, we increased the length

[5:27] because we didn't feel it was long

[5:29] enough for a vehicle to actually enter.

[5:32] » Um

[5:33] » But yeah, I have

[5:34] » No closer to the wetlands. You're just

[5:35] extending it across the back.

[5:38] » Correct. Yeah, I can share my screen if

[5:40] you'd like to see it as well.

[5:41] » Oh, no, no, I can picture it in my mind.

[5:43] I came up with the 10 by 12 out of my

[5:47] head last meeting. So, um to have a real

[5:50] measurement [laughter] is is good.

[5:54] » Okay, got it.

[5:56] » Um can can I just ask so um thank you

[5:59] for getting that those um square

[6:03] footage. Um, I think that's going to be

[6:05] really helpful. But, uh, I think the

[6:07] other thing that we were looking for

[6:09] was, um, a percentage of the percentage

[6:13] increase in in non-permeable area. So,

[6:18] it would be I I don't know if we can

[6:21] actually do that calculation

[6:24] um, as it is now, but I know there's

[6:27] that one piece that's currently part of

[6:30] the driveway that wouldn't be included

[6:32] in that percentage increase. And then

[6:33] but then everything else would

[6:35] essentially be be that increase.

[6:38] » Yeah. Elanor, I thought you wanted the

[6:40] square foot instead of the percentage

[6:41] because we had a percentage that was on

[6:43] the lot coverage that said 4.9% but I

[6:48] thought that square footage was

[6:49] requested and not percentage.

[6:52] Um

[6:53] » I I think um I was interested in the

[6:58] square um footage because that's usually

[7:01] what I've seen. Um, James, are you

[7:03] seeing something um in the act that asks

[7:08] us to quantify the additional new

[7:11] percentage created?

[7:12] » I I would uh Ethan might be better to to

[7:16] ask. I it was just it was it was my

[7:18] understanding that the what is kind of

[7:20] in question is how much of an increase

[7:24] in non-permeable area is there and that

[7:27] 4.9% is the is the total coverage which

[7:31] includes an area that is already

[7:34] impermeable and so that four it would

[7:36] actually be like slightly less than 4.9%

[7:40] it would be that like increase

[7:42] » Percentage um but yeah I don't Ethan is

[7:45] is that Is that correct that that there

[7:47] needs to be some sort of like

[7:51] » Uh we don't usually look at percentages.

[7:53] It is a good reference point based on

[7:56] the site. Um from what I recall it was a

[7:58] pretty large site alto together. So I

[8:02] don't think percentage wise it would be

[8:03] a big increase.

[8:05] » Okay. um considering there's about 5%

[8:07] existing, but

[8:09] um yeah, it's a good reference point

[8:11] just to see the the change from before

[8:14] and after.

[8:17] » Okay. Thank you.

[8:18] » Yeah, we might be able to get an

[8:20] estimate, but I don't think it'll

[8:22] increase by more than a couple percent.

[8:24] » Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

[8:25] » If that. Yeah.

[8:27] » Okay, no worries.

[8:36] No further. Does anybody else have

[8:38] questions or comments?

[8:41] Um

[8:45] Judy, do we need to open it to the

[8:47] public at this point?

[8:49] » It's not a public hearing.

[8:51] » Okay, perfect. Thank you. Um, so I guess

[8:55] at this point we can, um,

[8:59] you know, decide to

[9:02] issue a determination of applicability.

[9:05] Do we want to,

[9:08] um, Ethan, I don't know if you want to

[9:10] pull up the form and we can kind of walk

[9:12] through that together because I don't

[9:15] think um,

[9:17] some of the members have seen that.

[9:20] Here, I'll pull up the form in a second.

[10:18] So with the determination there's um

[10:20] positive determination and negative.

[10:22] positive meaning

[10:25] um the work cannot begin and it should

[10:29] um we should receive a notice of intent

[10:31] before the work begins. And then a

[10:33] negative determination would be

[10:35] determining that it does not need a

[10:36] permit and that you can do the work,

[10:39] » Right?

[10:39] » And then underneath each positive or

[10:41] negative, there's a few options. So you

[10:43] can kind of scroll through these and see

[10:46] which one might best suit the site.

[10:49] » Okay.

[10:51] Um now for Nick for additional reference

[10:54] we um you know I think when we visited

[10:57] we

[10:59] all agreed the um the wetland was closer

[11:03] and that given its proximity

[11:06] » [clears throat]

[11:06] » Um we would want to

[11:08] um put some conditions in place

[11:10] especially since there's going to be

[11:12] pouring concrete putting in utilities.

[11:16] Um, so it's a little more involved than

[11:19] just um, you know, dropping a prefab

[11:23] structure on an existing

[11:26] pvious surface or or something like

[11:28] that. Um,

[11:33] so Ethan, your recommendation was to do

[11:37] a positive determination.

[11:42] » Yes. I was saying it looks like um the

[11:44] work is within an area subject to

[11:46] jurisdiction and will alter the area.

[11:49] » Okay.

[11:50] » Therefore would require a notice of

[11:51] intent. Um that you can see that here

[11:53] with the positive three determination.

[11:56] » Okay.

[12:05] » Does anyone on the commission have

[12:06] questions?

[12:10] Okay. So, do we want to make Well, and I

[12:13] guess the other thing um you had

[12:16] suggested, Ethan, was that um given the

[12:20] relative like the the size of alteration

[12:23] was less than a thousand square feet

[12:26] um that Nick could consider doing an

[12:29] abbreviated notice of intent.

[12:34] » Yes, if if they do continue with the

[12:36] work, I think an abbreviated notice of

[12:38] intent would make sense. it. From what

[12:41] we saw here, it sounds like the work is

[12:43] small enough that it would meet the

[12:44] requirements, just

[12:45] » Okay.

[12:46] » It still has the same process as the

[12:47] NOI, just a shorter permit application.

[12:52] » Okay. [clears throat]

[12:54] Um, so can I get a Nick, do you have any

[12:58] questions before we

[13:01] » Yeah, I just had uh one quick question.

[13:05] I know we measured the distance as 32

[13:09] feet and I think we had discussed going

[13:12] the NOI route. Uh that would require a

[13:16] wetland specialist to come and get an

[13:17] official distance. Is that correct

[13:21] or

[13:23] » Yes, that's correct.

[13:26] » Okay, got it.

[13:27] » I can follow up with you um tomorrow if

[13:29] that's the with more details if that's

[13:31] the route that it goes.

[13:34] » Okay.

[13:35] Yeah, we we we did confirm that with the

[13:39] um technical expert at D because

[13:43] I wasn't seeing it strictly, you know,

[13:45] written in the regulations, but she did

[13:48] confirm that.

[13:50] » And maybe if you guys wanted to talk

[13:52] about what sort of conditions you might

[13:54] want to see, just so we can let Nick be

[13:57] prepared and bring us exactly what we're

[14:00] looking for since it's in front of us

[14:01] today.

[14:04] I I think Well, Barbara, you start.

[14:10] » Oh, I think you're on mute, Barbara.

[14:15] » Yes. That would make some people very

[14:17] happy. Um, so

[14:22] I don't know [clears throat] what order

[14:23] you want to take um, any conditions, but

[14:27] I'm I've been suggesting sort of from

[14:29] the beginning that it might be

[14:30] worthwhile considering uh, downspouts.

[14:33] Um, controlling the water that comes off

[14:36] the roof of that garage, [clears throat]

[14:38] controlling it, you know, I'm so sorry.

[14:42] Um,

[14:44] controlling it in a way that, you know,

[14:46] removes it. um because the higher going

[14:51] off the back of the garage is a higher

[14:53] um sort of higher plane and also it's a

[14:56] longer distance um to the wetlands from

[14:59] up there uh as you get farther away from

[15:02] the front doors of the garage. It it the

[15:05] slope, you know, comes becomes shorter.

[15:07] So, I'm thinking up where the garage is

[15:10] carrying it off the roof would not be a

[15:12] bad idea. Leaders and gutters.

[15:16] Okay, got it.

[15:24] James or Drew, did you have any?

[15:30] » Yeah. Yeah, I mean I guess in terms of

[15:34] how the

[15:36] you know

[15:41] prevention of runoff you know uh in

[15:43] terms of construction you know the the

[15:45] way straw swaddles are set up and

[15:46] everything to prevent it from you know

[15:48] running back down in and and uh you know

[15:51] determining where the fill is coming

[15:52] from if there is any. I know it's

[15:54] seemingly just going to be a a slab

[15:56] poured and then was it it was deeper on

[15:59] the edges and then the middle was uh

[16:02] shallow. I forget exactly what was going

[16:04] on there, but um

[16:06] » Yeah, that's correct. So, they're

[16:08] they're planning a

[16:11] uh 16inch wide by 4 feet deep perimeter

[16:16] and then just pouring a slab for the

[16:18] center.

[16:19] » I gotcha.

[16:22] And

[16:23] » And what would happen with um

[16:27] the soil they dig up the four feet?

[16:30] Would it be carded away or?

[16:34] » Yeah, we can. I would assume they would

[16:36] take it away, but we can put that as a

[16:38] condition to ensure it's removed if

[16:40] that's required.

[16:42] » I I mean I I guess you'd want to think

[16:45] about what else you would do with it or

[16:46] if you plan to do something else with

[16:48] it. Um,

[16:51] » Okay.

[16:52] » But it sounds like no, it would just be

[16:55] taken away. Um,

[17:00] which is fine.

[17:03] » Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, taking it

[17:05] away would probably be the easiest route

[17:07] because if you're putting it elsewhere

[17:09] in the property, that then becomes

[17:11] landscaping, which is a whole another.

[17:14] So, yeah.

[17:15] Um my my other question is actually and

[17:19] so I agree with you Barbara. I think I

[17:21] had mentioned it as well. Definitely

[17:22] downspouts would would be in order but I

[17:24] think you had already planned on that

[17:25] Nick as well. Um and uh um good point

[17:31] about construction Drew. Um just

[17:34] considering like what's what's going to

[17:36] happen during natural construction of

[17:37] it. The other thing I was wondering is

[17:40] the fact that the so the the driveway

[17:42] itself is

[17:45] really steep. Um, and it's it's a

[17:48] driveway. It's impermeable. So there

[17:49] would be a lot of runoff from from the

[17:52] driveway. Um,

[17:55] and uh I'm also wondering, especially

[17:58] since that that end of the driveway is

[18:00] is just kind of getting a little wider

[18:02] now, although it's not getting closer to

[18:04] the the um wetland, whether we need to

[18:08] consider the runoff from the driveway

[18:12] itself.

[18:15] I thought there was enough um lawn like

[18:18] there was enough distance and lawn um to

[18:21] the wetland area that it would

[18:24] capture mo you know most of it. I didn't

[18:27] look like there was areas where it was

[18:30] pooling today. Um and it's long and

[18:34] flat. It's not concentrated. So, I think

[18:36] it's getting

[18:38] spread over a bigger area and it's I I

[18:42] wasn't concerned about that. I I think

[18:45] my

[18:47] um request would be just standard

[18:51] um you know, what's going to be the

[18:53] limit of work that contractors are going

[18:56] to stay within. Putting up the erosion

[18:58] controls, marking that limit of work. Um

[19:01] making sure

[19:03] Nick you um

[19:06] have your contractor make clear on the

[19:08] plans where anything will be stockpiled

[19:11] even temporarily. Um

[19:15] you know I ideally it's not closer to

[19:18] the wetland. Um but you might need to

[19:20] put it someplace temporarily

[19:22] um if that's the case. So just kind of

[19:25] thinking through those details would be

[19:27] helpful um when you come back to us.

[19:31] Okay, sounds good.

[19:34] » Um,

[19:38] anyone

[19:40] else?

[19:44] Okay. So, can I get a motion to issue a

[19:49] negative determination? I mean, a

[19:51] positive determination.

[19:59] for positive determination for um number

[20:04] three

[20:06] for a abbreviated NOI.

[20:10] » I second.

[20:14] » Okay.

[20:14] » To confirm, do we need to mention the

[20:16] address?

[20:18] » 23 Montro Sav.

[20:20] » All right.

[20:21] » Okay.

[20:23] It's understood. So, um I'll take the

[20:26] motion. Um, Drew,

[20:29] » Yes.

[20:30] » Barbara,

[20:31] » Yes.

[20:33] James,

[20:34] » Yes.

[20:36] » And I myself am a yes.

[20:41] » Okay.

[20:43] » So, sorry. So, um, we're we're doing a

[20:46] positive determination.

[20:48] Nick and Ethan will be back in touch

[20:51] with you.

[20:53] I owe you some. you had asked about

[20:56] notweed and and native plants. So, I put

[21:00] together an email which I'll forward to

[21:03] Ethan and he can send it on to you.

[21:06] Okay, sounds good. And then really

[21:08] quickly just to recap on the conditions.

[21:11] So I put down uh gutters and downspouts

[21:15] uh noting the removal of the soil

[21:18] uh marking the limit of work and putting

[21:21] uh erosion control like the straw

[21:23] waddles and then noting if anything

[21:26] [snorts] will be stockpiled and where on

[21:28] the property.

[21:32] Does that all sound good?

[21:34] » Sounds great.

[21:35] » Yeah, that's pretty boilerplate, you

[21:37] know, um especially the stockpiling. you

[21:40] know, if a if a

[21:42] a truck or something, you know, ends up

[21:45] parking on your back lawn cuz that's all

[21:47] they can go, then they're within, you

[21:49] know, really close limit. And vehicles

[21:52] often leak certain fluids.

[21:56] » Yep. Understood.

[21:58] » It's just pro, you know, it's just

[21:59] protecting

[22:01] anything that we can.

[22:02] » Yeah.

[22:05] All right. Sounds good. Um, so yeah, I

[22:07] will watch for the communication from

[22:09] Ethan. Um, I guess any other questions

[22:13] for me or

[22:15] » No, thank you um for your patience and

[22:19] um working with us and you have a very

[22:22] lovely spot and I think you'll enjoy it

[22:26] even more.

[22:28] » Thank you. I appreciate it and thanks

[22:30] and uh nice working with everybody. I'm

[22:32] sure I'll I'll be in touch soon.

[22:35] Sounds good.

[22:36] » All righty. Have a good night, everyone.

[22:38] » Good night.

[22:39] » Thanks.

[22:42] See,

[22:44] so the next item on the agenda is

[22:49] Michael Palmer, 81 Spring Street, notice

[22:52] of intent for public hearing for the

[22:54] removal of an existing house, shed, and

[22:57] retaining wall and construction of a

[23:00] single family house, and driveway within

[23:03] 100 ft of a wetland resource area.

[23:07] Um, do we have Michael here?

[23:10] Hi. Uh, I hope you can see me and hear

[23:13] me.

[23:15] » Would you like to explain the project in

[23:17] more details? Um, and

[23:19] » Yeah, sure. So, I bought a small house,

[23:21] 900 ft house, uh, with the intention of

[23:24] my daughter living there. Um, I pulled a

[23:28] demolition permit for the interior with

[23:31] the original intention of just

[23:32] renovating the home. Um, but the home is

[23:36] pretty tired, uh, pretty fully

[23:39] constructed, um, as a box. So, I've

[23:44] progressed a little bit and, uh, decided

[23:46] to, it would be best to take the home

[23:48] down and build a new, uh, new

[23:51] construction.

[23:53] Um, so I worked with the surveyor and

[23:57] engineer. We, um, we designed a 1,400

[24:02] ft² primary home. uh uh footprint

[24:06] twotory. So 1,400 on top of 1400 with an

[24:10] attached garage which is approximately

[24:12] 900 on top of 900 uh cuz it has a second

[24:16] story as well. Um

[24:20] and that's about it. I mean the home

[24:22] sits uh pretty uh pretty much at grade

[24:25] on Spring Street. Uh Spring Street uh

[24:28] where I'm located is a pretty pretty

[24:30] level. It levels out pretty well. Um

[24:33] however the back uh there is a s not

[24:38] probably an eight foot rise in grade

[24:42] um at the back corner and beyond that

[24:45] back corner maybe 40 40 ft I I'm not

[24:49] sure exactly there is a um water I don't

[24:53] know if it's a pond or a pool how you

[24:56] know how you classify it um but uh my

[25:02] little lack of environmental knowledge.

[25:05] Um I

[25:06] » Mike, I can kind of jump in

[25:08] » If you Yeah, if you could discuss that

[25:10] part. Yeah.

[25:10] » Yeah. And if one of you wants to share

[25:12] your screen.

[25:13] » Sure. I can do that. My name's Ian. I'm

[25:16] an engineer with Miser Bram. I'm working

[25:19] for Michael.

[25:20] » Sorry. Can we get your just for the

[25:21] record, Ian, your first and last name

[25:23] and your firm name again? So

[25:26] » That's Ian Aninsley and the firm is

[25:29] Misner Brem and we're at uh 142

[25:32] Littleton Road in Westford.

[25:35] » Thank you.

[25:35] » Y uh can you see the plan now?

[25:39] » Yes.

[25:40] » Okay. Uh, so kind of building on what

[25:42] Mike was talking about, you can see

[25:44] Spring Street down here, the existing

[25:47] house here,

[25:49] the new house, kind of a dark black

[25:52] here, and then the wetland area. It's it

[25:57] is actually bordering vegetated wetland,

[25:59] although if you go out there, it's you

[26:01] predominantly see a pond. The wetland is

[26:04] just kind of along that pond edge. Um,

[26:07] and then I got the 50 foot offset and

[26:11] 100 foot buffer. Um, so you can see

[26:16] really only the back of the house is in

[26:19] the buffer. I think we're at 84 ft away

[26:22] from the wetland at the closest point.

[26:25] And the other kind of key thing is it

[26:28] the property actually slopes away from

[26:30] the wetland. So you can see the grade

[26:33] going up here. So any work that we're

[26:36] doing, we're not expecting to flow back

[26:39] into the wetland.

[26:42] » Okay.

[26:52] » Can you just outline the size of the new

[26:54] like the new structure? Will it change

[26:56] at all? I'm sorry. I see the existing

[27:00] dwelling. So you move it.

[27:02] » So here's the existing.

[27:03] » Okay. And then the new is this kind of

[27:06] rectangle.

[27:07] » Mhm.

[27:08] » Dark rectangle.

[27:10] » Um

[27:12] so the you can see it is a size increase

[27:14] but it's pretty modest house for this

[27:17] lot.

[27:23] » What is the lot square footage? The lot

[27:25] size the ratio of the new build to the

[27:29] lot.

[27:30] » Yep. It's um it's a 10,000 square foot

[27:33] lot

[27:35] and um

[27:38] square footage of the house is 2415. So

[27:42] if you take that out of 10,000 that's

[27:45] about 25%.

[27:47] » Okay.

[27:49] » Thank you.

[27:50] » Yeah.

[27:57] Um, what's nice about this too is

[28:01] the existing driveway and the new

[28:03] driveway that come in are both entirely

[28:05] outside of the buffer. Um, it's only

[28:08] kind of the back corner of the house

[28:09] that's in it. And then the majority of

[28:11] the house is actually outside the

[28:13] buffer.

[28:21] » Can you talk about the retaining wall?

[28:24] Yeah, there's a there's a retaining wall

[28:27] there now. Uh kind of like a field stone

[28:30] wall. Um it's it's not in the best

[28:34] shape. They're definitely going to take

[28:35] it down when they put the new house in.

[28:37] Um and I think the thought right now is

[28:42] where this grade kind of goes up right

[28:44] now. Um, the thought is to put a wall

[28:48] kind of in this back corner so that they

[28:51] can walk out the back door into like a

[28:53] flat area and not right into the hill

[28:56] going up. Uh, so we're expecting that to

[28:58] be 3 or 4 feet tall.

[29:03] » So you'd be reusing the ex the stones um

[29:07] parts and pieces from the existing stone

[29:09] wall.

[29:11] Mike,

[29:11] » Are you thinking of reusing or would you

[29:13] do a new one?

[29:16] uh the the retaining wall that's there

[29:18] now um with the material it's very

[29:22] insignificant. I don't I don't think

[29:24] there'll be an opportunity to reuse it

[29:25] because um what's there now is so

[29:29] minimal. I think there's you know

[29:31] there's only about I think there's maybe

[29:33] 2 3 feet uh by 10 ft. So to match the

[29:37] stone uh would not work. We could we

[29:40] would potentially use it for back fill

[29:43] and for the footing. Um but some stone

[29:46] or Yeah. some stone stone or masonry for

[29:49] the retaining wall would be new new

[29:51] construction, new material.

[29:54] » So you'd have to remove the existing. Is

[29:57] you say you could use some of it but not

[29:59] all of it?

[30:00] » No, we would pro we we could uh lack of

[30:03] a better term lose what's there. We

[30:05] would utilize it in the uh footing.

[30:08] Okay.

[30:08] » So, below below grade. So, we'd be able

[30:10] to use it that way. Yes.

[30:11] » Okay.

[30:13] That's what I was trying to understand.

[30:15] Thank you.

[30:16] » Thank you.

[30:26] Also, I observed um looking at the map

[30:30] um a topo um that that neighborhood um

[30:35] there are a number of houses uh on the

[30:38] side road as well as on spring. I don't

[30:41] know the side road is it emans or

[30:43] something. I don't know the name of that

[30:45] road, but um there are a number of

[30:48] houses, maybe four or five that are

[30:50] centered around this um wetlands area.

[30:55] Um I I don't really know how close those

[30:59] houses are, but number 93, which is a

[31:01] flag lot, seems to be a little closer

[31:05] than what you're describing you would be

[31:07] doing. I'm just wondering if that's Can

[31:10] you see that house from from your lot?

[31:14] I'm sorry. I'm new to that neighborhood

[31:16] and I'm not uh all that familiar. Yeah.

[31:18] I apologize.

[31:19] » I think you're talking about if you're

[31:21] looking at this house from the street,

[31:24] » Is it the lot to the left?

[31:26] » Correct. Number 93.

[31:28] » Yeah, I think we're

[31:31] fairly close

[31:34] back, but I think it goes back a little

[31:36] bit further.

[31:37] Yeah, I think we're equal distance or 93

[31:40] is for uh I think it's close to equal

[31:44] distance, but um I think

[31:46] » To the wetland.

[31:47] » Yeah. Right.

[31:50] » Okay. So, yeah. So, there is some

[31:51] precedent is what I'm I'm kind of

[31:53] looking for um in the neighborhood for

[31:56] this particular wetland um and the way

[31:59] the neighborhood has been carved out

[32:01] side [clears throat] roads and spring.

[32:04] Okay.

[32:13] Sorry, Barbara um may have asked this

[32:15] question and I was concentrating on the

[32:17] pictures. Um but with the retaining

[32:20] wall, you're going to be going into the

[32:22] hillside and then carting away that soil

[32:25] or will that you be used elsewhere on

[32:27] the property?

[32:28] » It would be removed.

[32:30] » Okay.

[32:43] Uh

[32:44] » The other the other uh benefit here is

[32:46] the house would be pretty similar in

[32:48] elevation to the existing house. So

[32:51] we're not expecting, you know, large

[32:53] amount of fill, large amount of grading

[32:56] required.

[32:57] um that the lots set up pretty pretty

[33:00] well for the house to be at a similar

[33:02] elevation

[33:04] » And

[33:06] and um I guess how deep do you dig the

[33:09] foundation?

[33:11] » I think the architectural is calling for

[33:13] an 8ft foundation.

[33:19] » That's pretty typical for a for a

[33:21] basement.

[33:24] I think it's somewhat code at this

[33:26] point. Um I know you can I know you can

[33:29] do smaller ones, but I think uh as Ian

[33:32] said is 8 foot is very typical.

[33:35] » What do you mean

[33:36] » That's how deep the concrete is?

[33:39] » I'm sorry.

[33:40] » Sorry. Is that how deep the concrete is?

[33:43] So, um, so you you would dig down, I

[33:47] think, so around the perimeter you would

[33:49] establish your footings or or all your

[33:52] footings would be established. And I

[33:53] would say those are probably 9 ft below

[33:56] grade because I would assume they're

[33:57] typically around a 12 in pore.

[34:00] » And then you build your foundation wall

[34:01] on top of that, which would be an 8

[34:03] foot.

[34:04] » Okay.

[34:04] » Yeah. And that's the full perimeter. Uh,

[34:06] and sometimes some uh structural uh

[34:10] within the perimeter.

[34:12] » Okay.

[34:13] And then it's usually exposed, you know,

[34:16] 6 in to a foot.

[34:18] » That's right.

[34:19] » Sticking out of the ground.

[34:21] » Yeah. So that would actually adjust the

[34:22] dig. So instead of digging in, you'd be

[34:25] probably digging down seven seven to

[34:28] eight.

[34:28] » Yeah.

[34:29] » Because you'd have a you'd have uh a

[34:31] foot or two of the foundation above

[34:33] grade.

[34:34] » Okay.

[34:35] » Would you require a sump pump or a

[34:38] French drain? What would you be thinking

[34:41] of?

[34:41] » The existing house now appears the

[34:43] basement appears dry. Um I pro I would

[34:47] take the advice uh of the contractors to

[34:52] uh maybe prep for a sump, you know,

[34:54] which would just be a hole in the uh

[34:57] foundation floor.

[34:58] » Yep.

[34:59] » Um but there's no evidence that there'd

[35:02] be an issue at this point.

[35:05] » Okay. and your utilities, can you use

[35:07] the same um line or will you have to dig

[35:10] those up and put it in a new trench?

[35:12] » I think it um it's required and I think

[35:15] it well, we would definitely need to

[35:16] increase the size of the electrical

[35:18] because I think the the home is fairly

[35:20] small. It's only around 900 ft now,

[35:22] » Right?

[35:22] » So, I think it's 100 amp service. So,

[35:24] that would go to a 200 amp service that

[35:26] is above ground, the electrical. Um, the

[35:29] house does have gas at this point, but

[35:32] the new plan uh with the new codes does

[35:36] not call uh for gas. So, the the house

[35:38] is 100% electrical and um water and

[35:42] sewer. I would assume because it's new

[35:45] construction, you would replace to the

[35:48] street just because the home is older

[35:50] and the lines would be older. So, it

[35:52] would be

[35:53] » Preventative to, you know, do new on

[35:55] that.

[35:57] Okay.

[35:59] » And it's a short I mean, you know, it's

[36:01] short distance to the street. So, so

[36:03] within the yard, it's not a lot of

[36:05] digging, not not a lot of effort to

[36:07] replace.

[36:09] » I guess you all don't have radon up

[36:11] here.

[36:13] » Um, yeah. I don't How do we address

[36:14] that? We did do the HERS rating. We did

[36:16] the the energy audit report. Um, I don't

[36:19] know if that's included in that. um

[36:23] you know so uh but I think we do I think

[36:26] we do we do address radon in the

[36:29] building permit.

[36:30] » Okay.

[36:34] » Thank you.

[36:38] » Uh what about the the base material

[36:41] within that retaining wall? Is that just

[36:43] going to be grass or it's going to be

[36:45] paving stone or

[36:48] » You're talking like the blocks and the

[36:50] wall?

[36:51] » No, I mean the the floor. So when you

[36:54] walk out of the house into that little

[36:55] area.

[36:57] » Yeah, Mike. I think what he's asking is

[36:59] when you walk out this back door kind of

[37:01] this slow flat area.

[37:03] » Mhm.

[37:04] » I think what's typ Yeah. What's typical

[37:06] these days is pavers.

[37:08] » Yeah.

[37:08] » Uh you know, so they would be permeable,

[37:10] semi-permeable. Semi. Okay.

[37:18] » Yeah. People like that hardcape style,

[37:21] especially near the door.

[37:22] » Yeah.

[37:28] » Yeah. Anytime with an egress, I think

[37:30] you want a minimum of pavers um just

[37:34] because of uh snow management uh and

[37:37] safety in that respect. I mean to have

[37:39] gravel would uh you know uh something

[37:42] more permeable uh or even grass would be

[37:46] uh a little more difficult to manage the

[37:48] the rare egress of the building for

[37:50] safety reasons.

[37:54] » And is anything changing on the front or

[37:56] you going to keep the same

[37:58] Oh no proposed paid driveway. Okay.

[38:02] » Yeah. So the moving Yeah. The driveway

[38:04] is going to slide over here because this

[38:06] is the garage is going to be on this

[38:08] side. Okay.

[38:14] » Um,

[38:16] would anybody be interested in

[38:18] conducting a site visit?

[38:22] » We met um the conservation Ethan uh the

[38:27] other day at the property. Okay.

[38:30] » [clears throat]

[38:31] » I'd be interested in taking a peek um

[38:35] just because of the pond and there's um

[38:38] potential vernal pool near there but

[38:43] and just to unders

[38:46] just to um get a better visual

[38:51] Barbara James Drew do you

[38:57] » We do have pictures from Ethan's visit

[39:00] Mhm.

[39:01] » Um, but if we wanted to look at the I

[39:05] mean what the wetland itself looked

[39:08] like. Um,

[39:11] we could we could certainly do that. I'm

[39:13] not too concerned because it is a it is

[39:15] a pretty steep decline like towards the

[39:19] house.

[39:20] » Okay.

[39:20] » And away from the wetland.

[39:22] » Okay.

[39:23] » But yeah.

[39:24] » Yeah. I mean where we're going to be

[39:26] working it's this is six feet higher.

[39:29] you know, so nothing that we're going to

[39:32] be disturbing is going into that

[39:33] wetland.

[39:34] » Okay.

[39:36] Oh, here we go.

[39:40] » And in speaking with Ethan, we

[39:42] volunteered

[39:44] um you know, controls if uh you people

[39:49] wanted them cuz it's a minimal effort.

[39:52] We don't think it's necessary, but if

[39:53] it's something that makes you, you know,

[39:56] uh, makes you more comfortable, we be,

[39:58] you know, that's that's an easy ad,

[40:06] but as as Ian suggested, um, it's it's a

[40:10] 6oot up upgrade, so I mean, nothing's

[40:13] going to really flow up.

[40:16] » We hope.

[40:17] » Yeah. You never know.

[40:18] » That would be a lot of rain.

[40:19] » Yeah.

[40:21] Well, the world's a crazy place.

[40:23] Anything can happen these days.

[40:25] » Mhm.

[40:27] » So, it's just a like a grass lawn all

[40:30] the way to the

[40:33] wetland,

[40:35] » I think. Once you get off the property

[40:37] back here, um I know it's lawn over here

[40:41] because this is another house. Um, as

[40:44] you get sort of in this area, it turns

[40:46] into woods, but until you get to that

[40:49] back property line, it is essentially

[40:51] grass.

[40:52] » Okay.

[40:57] » Which is probably just cuz they used it

[40:58] as their yard.

[41:01] » Okay.

[41:05] Could

[41:09] you speak to any plant things that you

[41:11] might be doing if you're removing any

[41:13] vegetation or bringing in anything new?

[41:16] » Yeah. Uh so um I've I've done a little

[41:20] you know my limited experience but my my

[41:23] anticipation is um p privacy uh shrubs

[41:27] uh abavites or uh green giants

[41:32] um along and the other thing and the

[41:35] other thing is I would encapsulate the

[41:37] backyard with a six-foot vinyl fence.

[41:40] Um, I like to do that because like I

[41:43] said, this this is very this the

[41:45] intention of this house is most likely

[41:48] for at a minimum my daughter if not

[41:51] daughter and son. Um, I have adult kids

[41:53] that live with me. Um, but we also

[41:56] always have dogs. So, we would we would

[41:59] uh privatize the back and, you know, and

[42:01] keep have an area for the dogs. But um

[42:05] to the looking from the street to the

[42:07] left uh there's a a pretty rickety

[42:11] picket fence that would need to be

[42:14] placed. Um I spoke to that neighbor. Um

[42:17] she seems very nice and I'm I'm

[42:19] confident we can work together. Um so

[42:22] probably fence uh replacement and some

[42:24] privacy plantings uh all along the back

[42:28] line.

[42:30] Um,

[42:31] I would do again uh fence privacy

[42:34] plantings, abides of something of that

[42:36] nature. And um yeah, I mean there

[42:40] there's going to be a significant amount

[42:41] of plantings. I I forget the uh lineage

[42:45] of the

[42:47] uh of the lot. I know the lot's 10,000

[42:50] ft. I think it's 100 by 100.

[42:51] » It's a perfect 100 by hundreds.

[42:53] » Yeah, it's all hundreds. So, um,

[42:56] probably from the front corners of the

[42:58] house back

[43:02] will be pretty, you know, pretty, uh,

[43:06] pretty privatized with, uh, plantings.

[43:14] » Okay.

[43:15] » There'll be, put it this way, there'll

[43:17] be a lot lot more than there now because

[43:20] there's almost nothing there now.

[43:24] Do you anticipate putting that fence

[43:26] like around the whole I guess perimeter

[43:29] of the property line or just in a little

[43:31] » I think maybe from the back corners

[43:34] encapsulate that back rectangle,

[43:38] you know, with it with maybe a gate um

[43:41] on one or both ends, you know, so you

[43:44] basically establish a backyard. Like I

[43:46] said, I would do it for pets.

[44:07] Right now, the back border, the back

[44:09] line is a uh like a chicken wire uh

[44:13] fencing.

[44:14] And on the left side when you're looking

[44:17] from the street, like I said, there's a

[44:19] picket fence and the uh the chicken wire

[44:22] does come around the corner. Uh on the

[44:25] right side as well, it's it's like uh

[44:28] just kind of buried and falling apart.

[44:30] It's not a privacy fence by any means.

[44:32] It's just a like a delineation, I think,

[44:35] to establish the um [snorts]

[44:38] the property lines.

[44:40] » Mhm. But it's it's it's pretty uh

[44:44] raggedy looking. So that would come I

[44:46] would pull that out. And like I said,

[44:49] I'm pretty typical to a 6ft uh privacy

[44:52] fence.

[44:54] » Do do the um immediate neighbors besides

[44:57] that picket fence have um fences as

[45:00] well?

[45:03] » Uh so when you're looking at the house

[45:04] to the right, I believe that neighbor is

[45:07] a corner lot.

[45:08] » Okay. Uh uh they do not I I don't know

[45:11] if they have it. [snorts]

[45:13] » Um

[45:13] » I think there's a good amount of trees

[45:15] kind of on that side, Mike. So

[45:17] » Yeah, there's probably why they don't

[45:18] have a fence.

[45:19] » Yeah. And she it looks like she does

[45:21] some um um gardening. She has some

[45:24] raised beds and all along that right

[45:27] side.

[45:28] » Okay.

[45:29] » Yep. The people to the back um they're

[45:32] much they're much higher. their home is

[45:34] high. Uh,

[45:36] you know, and their backyard swells

[45:39] down. Um, I don't know. It's, you know,

[45:41] kind of bowls out a little bit. Um,

[45:45] but yeah, know they share that that

[45:47] chicken wire fence. That's all that I

[45:49] see. and and but then they have uh kind

[45:51] of uh an eclectic uh plantings [snorts]

[45:55] um just because their backyard I think

[45:57] is

[45:59] um uh so close to the uh pond.

[46:04] » Mhm.

[46:04] » You know, so they don't they don't I

[46:06] don't think I it's all it's mowed. It's

[46:08] it's wellkept. Um [snorts]

[46:11] but I don't know. I don't The few times

[46:13] I've been there, I haven't seen much use

[46:15] uh from the family.

[46:20] Yeah, I think our only, you know, hope

[46:23] is that, um, you know, when we see

[46:26] things like this with a pond surrounded

[46:28] by houses that there's, um, an ability

[46:31] to allow for wildlife movement,

[46:36] » You know. So, I think that would be,

[46:39] you know, the the only sort of

[46:42] suggestion or thing we would encourage.

[46:45] » Sure. Yeah.

[46:46] » That that typically means kind of

[46:48] leaving a gap at the bottom of the

[46:50] fence. So,

[46:51] » Okay.

[46:52] » Get underneath it. Is that what you

[46:55] » Yeah. Or or even um

[46:59] um Well, I don't know how people, you

[47:01] know, if there's going to be a narrow

[47:03] spot pulling back a fence so that it

[47:06] sounds like on the other side there's

[47:08] enough room for wildlife to move. But

[47:12] » Yeah, on the on the the the three of

[47:15] butters.

[47:15] » Mhm.

[47:16] » They have no restrict no restrictions.

[47:19] » Yep.

[47:23] » Lots of wild turkeys out there.

[47:26] » Yeah. Yeah. My concern, and I don't know

[47:28] what's over there, but I don't know if

[47:30] there's coyotes. I mean, we where I

[47:31] live, uh, we have coyotes and, um, they

[47:35] they're looking at the dogs, you know,

[47:36] and the cats. Um, so that's the only

[47:39] reason, that's my only concern.

[47:42] » Um, but we like to see the we like to

[47:44] see them move around and have their

[47:46] space,

[47:47] » But I think this I don't think we're

[47:49] going to restrict that at all because

[47:50] like I said, the the backyard of the

[47:52] property now as it exists is got the

[47:54] chicken wire fence.

[47:55] » So, and that, you know, so nothing's

[47:57] coming through that yard as, you know,

[47:59] as set up now.

[48:08] Um, does anybody else have any

[48:11] questions? Otherwise, um, we have other,

[48:14] it looks like people present

[48:18] and so I wonder if we can open the

[48:22] hearing up to the public.

[48:31] Is there anyone from the public who

[48:32] would like to comment on the 81 Spring

[48:35] Street notice of intent

[48:43] going once, going twice?

[48:48] Okay.

[48:54] Ethan, what do you propose next?

[48:59] Um, it sounds like we've answered all

[49:01] our questions. I would suggest

[49:04] considering issuing an order of

[49:05] conditions.

[49:08] » Um, can we have you draft the order of

[49:12] conditions and we approve them at the

[49:16] next meeting?

[49:19] » What's our timeline?

[49:22] » Yeah, if the applicant is willing to

[49:24] continue it, you can do that. Yep.

[49:28] Uh what's what's your next meeting?

[49:32] » Uh September 15th,

[49:36] » Mike, are you okay with that?

[49:38] » Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean of so we're

[49:41] fighting fighting the season now for

[49:43] construction and applying for the

[49:44] permit, but um you know, I'm not I'm not

[49:48] upset by it. If that's what you guys

[49:50] require, that'd be fine. I mean, if it

[49:51] could be voted on today, that'd be

[49:52] great. But um I don't know if the order

[49:56] of conditions is going to be that you

[49:57] know if anything's really going to jump

[49:59] out that um

[50:03] we've all already spoken to Ethan about

[50:05] and volunt you know I mean I'm very I'm

[50:07] easy but if if it has to be articulated

[50:09] in a in a draft that's you know and

[50:12] recorded that's fine. I you know I don't

[50:15] know how much um you guys need to firm

[50:18] up with me. Um, but if you if there is

[50:21] stuff that needs to be firmed up, then

[50:23] uh we'll have to go to the next meeting.

[50:26] » Ethan, do you have a draft

[50:29] order ready to go that we can look at?

[50:33] » No, I don't think there's anything

[50:35] specific. Um, I might just add a

[50:37] requirement for the gap underneath the

[50:40] fence.

[50:41] » Okay.

[50:41] » And then a condition for adding a

[50:45] handful of plantings just to make sure

[50:46] those get done. But besides that,

[50:49] there's nothing to add. Just our

[50:51] standard conditions and then filling out

[50:54] the form itself. So,

[50:56] » And I I forgot to ask, is that shed

[50:57] going to stay to the right?

[50:59] » No. No, that's f basically falling over.

[51:03] » Okay.

[51:05] » It's not even attached to the ground. It

[51:07] sits kind of stands and on a uh on the

[51:11] dirt.

[51:12] » Okay.

[51:15] » Okay. Um,

[51:17] » Yeah,

[51:17] » That should be fine to issue today. If

[51:19] you guys are ready, like I mentioned,

[51:21] I'll just add a condition for the fence

[51:24] gap and then a condition for a handful

[51:26] of plantings. But besides that, it's all

[51:28] pretty standard.

[51:30] » Yeah,

[51:35] » If you guys want those to be conditions

[51:36] added onto it,

[51:40] » I think that makes sense. Drew, Barbara,

[51:42] would you guys be comfortable voting

[51:44] tonight?

[51:45] James too.

[51:48] » Yes, I would.

[51:50] » Yeah, I I think it's at least from what

[51:52] I'm seeing, it's pretty

[51:54] » Right. Straight forward.

[51:56] » It's Yeah, it's pretty straightforward.

[51:57] It's probably one of the

[51:58] » Easier

[51:59] » Easier, safest ones that I've seen just

[52:02] even just from the grade standpoint, you

[52:04] know. Um,

[52:06] » And the fact that no other neighbors,

[52:08] like you said, kind of have anything

[52:09] blocked in. I I I'm I'm pretty good on

[52:13] it. Okay.

[52:15] » Yeah, I agree.

[52:17] » And okay, I think I read through

[52:20] everything will be carded off. I'm

[52:21] always worried about stockpiling. Um I

[52:24] think we need a motion to close the

[52:27] public hearing and then we would issue

[52:30] the order of conditions. Is that

[52:31] correct, Judy?

[52:33] Or we would vote to issue the order of

[52:35] conditions.

[52:36] » Yeah. Close the public hearing first and

[52:38] then vote to issue the order.

[52:40] » Okay. I'll make a motion to close the

[52:42] public hearing. [clears throat]

[52:43] » I'll second.

[52:44] » Thank you. Um Drew,

[52:47] » Yes.

[52:48] » Barbara,

[52:49] » Yes.

[52:50] » James,

[52:51] » Yes.

[52:52] » And I myself am a yes.

[52:55] Um so we've closed the public hearing.

[52:59] Um, can I now get a motion to issue an

[53:04] order of conditions

[53:07] with the um two items that Ethan

[53:11] mentioned?

[53:14] » I'll make a motion to approve the order

[53:15] of conditions

[53:17] um for 81 Spring Street, Wakefield uh

[53:21] with the two conditions that Ethan had

[53:23] mentioned.

[53:25] » I will second that. Okay.

[53:31] And for cl clarification, it's the um

[53:33] leaving a gap with the fence and some

[53:37] plantings,

[53:39] right, Ethan? Okay, Drew,

[53:42] » Yes.

[53:43] » Barbara,

[53:44] » Yes.

[53:44] » James,

[53:45] » Yes.

[53:46] » And I am a yes.

[53:49] » Okay. Thank you.

[53:53] So,

[53:54] » Thank you both very much and for

[53:56] explaining it.

[53:58] Thank you very much.

[54:00] » I'm sure your daughter will be delighted

[54:01] to have a brand new house.

[54:03] » Yes.

[54:25] I think you're breaking up, Michael, but

[54:28] if you have any other questions um that

[54:30] come up along the process, Ethan can

[54:32] certainly help you out.

[54:38] Okay,

[54:40] » Thank you. Have a good evening.

[54:42] » All right. Thank you.

[54:58] Okay. Uh, next on our agenda is pack

[55:01] self storage of Wakefield um

[55:05] 50 Quantapow Parkway. That matter has

[55:08] been continued to September 15th at the

[55:11] applicant's request.

[55:13] Um, our next item on the agenda is under

[55:18] other business. We have 39 Bartley

[55:22] Street enforcement discussion.

[55:25] Um, Ethan, do you want to kick this off

[55:27] and give us some background?

[55:30] » Sure. So, um, this house at 39 Bartley

[55:34] Street has a wetland behind the

[55:36] property. um they had began work on

[55:38] landscaping and a retaining wall um

[55:41] without getting a wetlands permit. So

[55:44] I've just asked them to stop work and

[55:46] then come to this meeting if they could

[55:48] tell us a bit about the work that they

[55:50] were doing or planning to do. We can

[55:53] consider any immediate steps and then

[55:56] talk about eventual permits and what we

[55:58] might want to see from them.

[56:01] » My name is Drew. I'm uh not only the

[56:04] resident at 39 Bartley, but um I'm also

[56:08] a licensed general contractor. So,

[56:11] » This is right up my alley. So, the whole

[56:14] goal of this project is to

[56:19] we're calling it a driveway extension

[56:21] just because of the proximity to the

[56:23] driveway, but it's really just to

[56:25] terrace the land. So originally it was

[56:28] more or less just a dump off from an

[56:31] asphalt driveway down to the backyard

[56:34] which also abuts the wetlands. Um and

[56:37] the desire was to make a set of stairs

[56:40] going from the uh backyard to the

[56:43] driveway level to access vehicles that

[56:46] are parked. Um and we figured naturally

[56:49] while we're doing that might as well

[56:50] make the rest of the land usable

[56:52] [snorts]

[56:53] um and just terrace it off. So, it's

[56:55] going to be 40 linear feet of a uh

[56:58] concrete block retaining wall poured on

[57:00] an 8 in footer. Um,

[57:04] it's got approximately 400 square ft of

[57:07] crush stone topping that'll go in this

[57:10] retaining wall area. Um, with all proper

[57:14] drainage um leading to an outlet in the

[57:16] backyard. That's more or less our goal.

[57:27] Does anyone have questions on the

[57:30] commission or Janelle, did you want to

[57:31] say anything? You looked like you

[57:35] » Oh, I'm just the property owner of the

[57:37] of it. So, he he knows more about the

[57:39] project. Um but yeah, just there was a

[57:41] fence um there previously, so the fence

[57:44] part of the fence we removed, but um

[57:47] just kind of trying to um make it neater

[57:51] than it was.

[57:52] » Okay,

[57:54] I have a question. How close um do you

[57:57] know how many feet you are? Sorry, I

[58:01] have a little frog. close to the

[58:04] wetlands um from your existing

[58:08] what was the existing drive that you're

[58:10] now um adding to? Do you know the

[58:14] distance between that the end of that

[58:16] and the wetlands?

[58:17] » Well, so I guess the issue we're having

[58:19] is we don't know the definitive line of

[58:22] the wetlands. [clears throat] Um which

[58:25] makes that difficult to know. Um,

[58:27] however, I can tell you in confidence

[58:30] that the the original driveway that we

[58:33] are now um addressing the back of closer

[58:36] to the wetlands um was at least 70 ft or

[58:39] so away from the wetlands.

[58:42] » Okay.

[58:43] Do you feel that you should have a a

[58:46] proper reading by a professional

[58:49] [clears throat] to establish the actual

[58:51] delineation?

[58:52] what we were following on purpose. To be

[58:55] honest with you, when when we started

[58:56] this, conservation wasn't really at the

[58:59] forefront of of the project. We that

[59:00] wasn't an initial thought because we

[59:03] were following the original fence line

[59:05] that was going up the property towards

[59:07] the street. Um, and it was very

[59:10] intentional to stay on that fence line

[59:11] with the retaining wall. Um, so I guess

[59:15] I'm kind of leaving that up to you guys

[59:17] uh to determine.

[59:19] So, do you have any information on

[59:21] whether that was pre-approved by a

[59:23] previous owner? I don't know how long

[59:24] you've owned that property.

[59:26] » Um, yeah. So, I've lived here about

[59:28] three years. Um, I tried to go to the

[59:31] town hall and pull like the fields card

[59:34] and gather as much information as I

[59:36] could on the property. Um, it was pretty

[59:40] vague as far as some of the like the

[59:42] fence. I I couldn't figure out like when

[59:44] that was put up. Um, and I just learned

[59:47] recently of the wetlands other than I

[59:49] knew there was like a stream in the far

[59:50] far back, but um, not that there was

[59:53] some they were considering wetlands was

[59:55] closer to the side. So, this this was

[59:57] kind of news to me that I wasn't aware

[59:59] of. So, [snorts]

[1:00:01] » Okay. Thank you.

[1:00:04] [clears throat]

[1:00:09] » Anybody else have questions or comments?

[1:00:15] So I I think in addition to the the

[1:00:18] project itself, um I mean there's

[1:00:22] there's the bit

[1:00:24] that you had mentioned where your your

[1:00:26] intention is to follow the original

[1:00:28] fence line and to kind of just

[1:00:33] extend the driveway just like in terms

[1:00:36] of the the the actual

[1:00:38] square footage and location of the

[1:00:40] project. Um, but with the site visit

[1:00:43] pictures, my my other concern is um the

[1:00:46] the dumping to the side of that, it's

[1:00:50] it's pretty far to the to the I mean, if

[1:00:52] you're if you're looking towards the

[1:00:53] house, it's pretty far to the right of

[1:00:56] the fence line. Um, and that wetland is

[1:00:59] is pretty I mean, without being there, I

[1:01:02] can't exactly see, but with with the the

[1:01:05] photos, it's pretty darn close. Um and

[1:01:11] my question would be um

[1:01:16] you know was with with that dumping like

[1:01:19] what where is that going to be carded

[1:01:21] off? Is it going to be placed back into

[1:01:26] the terrace area and used for

[1:01:28] landscaping or um what's going on with

[1:01:32] that?

[1:01:32] » Yeah. So, that's kind of the beauty of

[1:01:34] it is we're not going to have to truck

[1:01:36] off any material at all. If anything,

[1:01:38] we're going to be trucking in lom and

[1:01:40] and crushed stone. Um, the removed

[1:01:44] material is going to be entirely used to

[1:01:46] back fill um to be then compacted before

[1:01:51] the retaining wall um as fill to build

[1:01:54] up that land. It's currently from the

[1:01:56] grade we're trying to get to

[1:01:57] approximately 27 in below grade um over

[1:02:01] a pretty large area. So we're

[1:02:04] anticipating approximately 22 yards of

[1:02:06] back fill. Um so a lot of that

[1:02:08] excavation well no all of the excavation

[1:02:11] will be put back into the area. Um on

[1:02:14] the opposing side [snorts] of the

[1:02:17] retaining wall closer to the wetlands, I

[1:02:20] was planning on using the existing soil

[1:02:21] that was there um to back fill up

[1:02:24] against the wall to maintain the

[1:02:25] original grade. Um but then adding new

[1:02:28] top soil to hopefully establish turf.

[1:02:33] » So sorry Drew, are you going to elevate?

[1:02:36] Is this happening on the side of the

[1:02:37] house or in the

[1:02:39] » Okay. And you are going to be um adding

[1:02:43] like soil or fill to make it more level

[1:02:47] with the front or the rear or

[1:02:50] » Correct. Right now there's a pretty

[1:02:52] heavy slope from the driveway to the

[1:02:54] backyard.

[1:02:55] » Okay.

[1:02:56] » And we wanted to build up the area more

[1:02:58] more or less terraaset.

[1:03:01] » Where you guys get your fill from

[1:03:02] usually.

[1:03:03] » So we use a middle middle sex landscape

[1:03:06] supply over in Wilmington.

[1:03:09] » Yeah. A friend of mine owns it.

[1:03:11] » Okay. That's that's a lot of our concern

[1:03:13] comes from bringing in phil.

[1:03:15] » Sure.

[1:03:16] » Just because of Japanese notweed and

[1:03:18] oriental bittersweet and all these

[1:03:20] invasives that you know every site that

[1:03:22] we visit now that did bring in phil,

[1:03:24] » They have these

[1:03:26] terribly invasive plants that

[1:03:29] » Will break through you know newly built

[1:03:32] what you know what have you.

[1:03:34] » Sure. I don't know much all about that.

[1:03:37] Um, but if you need additional

[1:03:39] information, I can I can request where

[1:03:42] their fill comes from. I believe it's

[1:03:44] all local, but I'm not sure.

[1:03:47] » Ethan, have you been to the site?

[1:03:51] » Um, yes, I I went to the site once.

[1:03:55] » Once. Okay. [laughter]

[1:03:57] » Um, did you have any thoughts or things

[1:04:00] you'd like to share as a result of that

[1:04:02] visit with the rest of us? Um, some

[1:04:05] observations.

[1:04:08] question.

[1:04:08] » I was just thinking you would definitely

[1:04:10] want a notice of intent along with the

[1:04:13] wetland survey um before the work

[1:04:16] continued. Um

[1:04:18] » Beyond that it was just a question of do

[1:04:21] you want to have anything more immediate

[1:04:24] or wait for the notice of intent or um

[1:04:27] and then if you do the notice of intent

[1:04:29] just like we're talking about now what

[1:04:32] exactly are we looking at regrading fill

[1:04:36] just what information we might want to

[1:04:37] see down the line.

[1:04:39] Yeah, on Mass Mapper what you sent I

[1:04:42] mean it's at least from the whatever I

[1:04:46] don't even know what year um they

[1:04:49] grabbed

[1:04:52] this um screenshot from or the uh the

[1:04:55] overhead um on Google Earth or whatever

[1:04:57] it was from. But from the car that's

[1:05:00] parked in this side driveway to the

[1:05:02] wetland, it's like you know 15 20 feet

[1:05:05] to the edge of it. I don't know how

[1:05:06] accurate Mass Mapper is, but it seems

[1:05:09] like it's relatively. So, I think it's a

[1:05:11] lot closer than,

[1:05:13] you know, what meets the eye because it

[1:05:15] definitely comes into the boundary of

[1:05:17] the property quite far, at least on that

[1:05:20] right hand side

[1:05:22] looking at the house.

[1:05:24] » Yeah, that that view would be from 2025.

[1:05:27] It's definitely close. I would say 30

[1:05:31] just a rough estimate 30 feet from the

[1:05:34] closest point of the work to the

[1:05:36] wetland.

[1:05:36] » Yeah.

[1:05:37] » And then it's sort of a slope to as it

[1:05:40] goes towards the wetland. So that's most

[1:05:43] of why I say notice of intent with how

[1:05:45] close it is and then just the risk of

[1:05:48] exposed dirt running off towards the

[1:05:49] wetland.

[1:05:55] That way we could get erosion controls

[1:05:57] down and then make sure things are being

[1:06:01] monitored and managed as it goes along.

[1:06:12] I agree with that. Um I understand

[1:06:15] Janelle, you you weren't aware. Um

[1:06:19] and we definitely want to get you guys

[1:06:21] right on track, but we have or back on

[1:06:23] track. Um but we do have to follow um

[1:06:28] sort of what the wetlands protection act

[1:06:30] prescribes.

[1:06:32] Um it you know looking at

[1:06:37] the gist map it definitely to me seemed

[1:06:40] like a lot of work um pretty close to

[1:06:42] the wetland. Um

[1:06:44] and we are seeing actually

[1:06:48] with other properties that the um aerial

[1:06:51] views are not I don't know when they

[1:06:54] were done at least over 10 years ago

[1:06:56] right Ethan or 15 years um some of those

[1:07:00] um but we're seeing you know sometimes

[1:07:03] the distances can be really different in

[1:07:06] person and so you you really do want the

[1:07:08] comfort of a um wetlands delineation and

[1:07:11] to understand as a property owner owner.

[1:07:13] Um sort of what you're you know what

[1:07:16] you're dealing with um

[1:07:20] you know so uh you're working with full

[1:07:23] knowledge and and you know some of the

[1:07:25] constraints of your parcel. Does that

[1:07:28] sound okay?

[1:07:30] » Yeah. Yeah. I think right now I'm just

[1:07:31] trying to educate myself on what what it

[1:07:35] is or what that means. Um so it's been a

[1:07:37] lot of um learning process for me.

[1:07:41] Um Ethan, there's no um history of a

[1:07:43] notice of intent or order of conditions

[1:07:45] or anything on this property.

[1:07:48] » Not that I see now.

[1:07:50] » Okay.

[1:07:56] All right. Um

[1:07:59] so in terms of um

[1:08:03] Ethan, I don't know. Um so the would the

[1:08:05] enforcement order say submit a notice of

[1:08:08] intent? Although I personally I I have

[1:08:11] not visited the property. I would be

[1:08:13] interested in doing a site visit. Would

[1:08:16] other members be?

[1:08:19] » I curious. My only thing now that I

[1:08:24] actually zoom out, I didn't really even

[1:08:26] look at the the zoomed out picture. I'm

[1:08:28] on Broadway Street, next street over.

[1:08:31] » I think I could I could walk there

[1:08:32] within two minutes. But I also don't

[1:08:35] know if that means I probably should

[1:08:36] refrain from voting on this if it's

[1:08:39] within my neighborhood. Not too sure

[1:08:41] what the dio is there.

[1:08:43] » You don't? No, you don't. He doesn't

[1:08:45] have to recuse himself. You know, I

[1:08:47] don't know about her.

[1:08:48] » Okay. All right. Thank you, Judy.

[1:08:50] » Yep.

[1:08:51] » But yes, I could if if a sidewalk's

[1:08:53] necessary, I could I could walk there

[1:08:54] anytime pretty much.

[1:08:56] Um,

[1:08:58] » Well, I I just think it would be I don't

[1:09:00] know if you'd want us Janelle just

[1:09:02] randomly walking behind knocking on.

[1:09:05] » I mean, as a Yeah, not just Hey,

[1:09:07] » I'm happy for you guys to come over

[1:09:09] anytime. I just started back at school

[1:09:11] today, so I feel like I'm a little

[1:09:12] frazzled. Today was our first day, so

[1:09:15] maybe a week to give me

[1:09:18] » Get me settled with school, but yes,

[1:09:19] that's fine.

[1:09:20] » Um, well, what I would suggest is

[1:09:22] scheduling is are the weekends good for

[1:09:24] you?

[1:09:26] are better or after like 4:00 p.m.

[1:09:30] ideal. Yeah,

[1:09:32] » I know some of us work so weekends are

[1:09:35] better for us. Um

[1:09:38] and my suggestion is we would try to do

[1:09:41] a site visit or you know we have to

[1:09:43] break up in groups. Um we can do

[1:09:46] staggered on one day um or two days and

[1:09:51] it doesn't take very long. Um, but I

[1:09:53] would suggest we do it on the week

[1:09:55] either this weekend or the following.

[1:09:57] Sounds like the following weekend would

[1:09:58] be better for you. Um,

[1:10:01] so that potentially

[1:10:05] we could come what would we do, Ethan?

[1:10:07] We could come back and sort of regroup

[1:10:09] on this matter at the next meeting

[1:10:12] and see if there's anything additional

[1:10:14] we want to recommend.

[1:10:17] Yes, I know they mentioned they were

[1:10:20] considering starting the notice of

[1:10:21] intent process. Um,

[1:10:23] » I think you could do that. You wouldn't

[1:10:25] have to

[1:10:26] » Hold up because that takes a while

[1:10:28] anyway.

[1:10:31] » But you could reconvene next meeting or

[1:10:33] the following meeting, whichever one

[1:10:34] works.

[1:10:35] » Okay.

[1:10:40] Um,

[1:10:41] » Yeah, I work on Saturdays, but I'm good

[1:10:43] on Sundays pretty much all day except

[1:10:45] for this upcoming Sunday, but the the

[1:10:47] next following one I'm I'm good with.

[1:10:49] But I do work until 5 on Saturdays. If

[1:10:52] it's after 5:30, I could do that, but I

[1:10:54] don't know how late people want to do it

[1:10:56] on a Saturday.

[1:11:00] » Date night. No, it's uh No. Uh, weekends

[1:11:03] are fine.

[1:11:05] Um,

[1:11:08] we should probably see um Janelle's

[1:11:10] availability. Ethan, can we have you or

[1:11:14] Judy coordinate some times

[1:11:18] » For an internal?

[1:11:19] » Sounds like next week.

[1:11:21] » Do you have some times now you want to

[1:11:22] suggest or since we're face to face?

[1:11:24] Okay. I think we typically you work true

[1:11:27] on Saturday, so maybe um Sunday 9:30 or

[1:11:32] 10:00 a.m. Is that doable?

[1:11:35] » That's great with me, but up to

[1:11:37] everybody else.

[1:11:38] » I'm I'm in the same boat. I mostly work

[1:11:41] Sundays and I mean Saturdays and then

[1:11:43] I'm off Sundays. So,

[1:11:44] » Okay.

[1:11:49] Does that work for you, Barbara, or

[1:11:52] would you rather go doing

[1:11:55] Well, Sunday is the day that my

[1:11:57] granddaughter plays her soccer matches.

[1:12:00] Oh,

[1:12:00] » It's usually around 10 o'clock in the

[1:12:02] morning, but I don't know that for a

[1:12:03] fact. So, I would have to check on the

[1:12:06] schedule and let you know about a Sunday

[1:12:08] morning.

[1:12:09] » Okay.

[1:12:09] » Otherwise, I'm available any other time.

[1:12:11] Well, that's not true. Um, other soccer

[1:12:14] games on Saturdays, but no one seems to

[1:12:17] want to go on a Saturday. So, um, I can

[1:12:19] go any other day of the week, but you

[1:12:21] all can't.

[1:12:25] Um, I think the time is going to change

[1:12:26] soon, so it might get harder. [laughter]

[1:12:28] We be going with flashlights.

[1:12:31] Um,

[1:12:33] why don't we um So, does Sunday 9:30

[1:12:37] work? And we'll probably do another

[1:12:39] session for Barbara and whoever. Miss

[1:12:42] Yeah.

[1:12:44] Misses it. Is that okay, Janelle?

[1:12:46] » Um, yeah. Are you talking about this

[1:12:48] Sunday?

[1:12:49] » Um, I was thinking you needed this

[1:12:51] weekend to recover. So, the following

[1:12:53] Sunday.

[1:12:54] » Um, so you're looking I'm looking at

[1:12:56] September 13th.

[1:12:58] » 13th.

[1:12:59] » Yeah. Yeah.

[1:13:00] » Okay. Yeah, that should be fine. Yes.

[1:13:03] » Okay. So, we'll put that on and if um

[1:13:06] some members can't attend, we'll have

[1:13:09] Ethan reach out to you to just do

[1:13:11] another small slot for people who want

[1:13:13] to visit. Okay. Thank you both for

[1:13:17] attending and um you know we will help

[1:13:21] you get things back on track.

[1:13:23] » Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it.

[1:13:25] » Okay,

[1:13:29] » Judy, is there anything formal I am

[1:13:31] missing for this matter?

[1:13:36] » No, no,

[1:13:37] » It's not a public hearing. Okay,

[1:13:38] perfect. Thank you.

[1:13:42] » Okay. Um

[1:13:45] we can move on to other business. Um

[1:13:49] wetland bylaw discussion.

[1:13:56] Uh,

[1:13:58] this is going to be I don't want to say

[1:14:00] challenging because um Jennifer and Paul

[1:14:03] aren't here and I know Jennifer sent

[1:14:06] some things for us to consider

[1:14:09] uh today, but I have not had a chance to

[1:14:12] look through them.

[1:14:15] Um, I can tell you about my presentation

[1:14:19] to FLQ if you guys want to hear how that

[1:14:23] went.

[1:14:24] » Sure.

[1:14:25] » Um, I think it was wellreceived.

[1:14:29] Um,

[1:14:30] they had a lot of questions

[1:14:34] um, you know, specific to certain

[1:14:37] projects.

[1:14:38] um very focused on, you know, impacts to

[1:14:42] late quantit and ensuring

[1:14:46] um you know, just understanding the

[1:14:47] bylaw better, but also understanding

[1:14:51] um

[1:14:53] you know, what protections could be in

[1:14:55] place for Lake Q should, you know, a big

[1:15:00] developer come in, you know, and take

[1:15:02] over some of the office parks or what

[1:15:05] have you. Um, so I think that that would

[1:15:09] be probably helpful for us to to mull.

[1:15:14] Um,

[1:15:15] I'm trying to think what else. I think

[1:15:20] very engaged on a subject. Um there were

[1:15:23] a lot of um

[1:15:26] you know number of people who were you

[1:15:28] know understood the concept of buffers

[1:15:30] and how it's important to protect and

[1:15:33] how it would enhance some of the

[1:15:36] mitigate some of the runoff and things

[1:15:38] and help improve lake health. Um but

[1:15:42] overall good.

[1:15:45] Um I did introduce some new slides that

[1:15:48] were um more on why now like what's the

[1:15:52] urgency and trying to um

[1:15:58] put an economic value on conservation.

[1:16:02] Um, so I will share those with you to,

[1:16:06] you know, see if if the points are

[1:16:09] strong enough or if we can make them

[1:16:10] stronger or, you know, if you find a

[1:16:13] better um, you know, a better stat or

[1:16:17] something that would be phenomenally

[1:16:19] helpful.

[1:16:21] Um,

[1:16:23] I know Ethan circulated,

[1:16:27] sorry, do you guys have any questions? I

[1:16:29] don't want to keep yammering.

[1:16:36] you attended a regular meeting that they

[1:16:38] have or they have a special meeting for

[1:16:40] this presentation or how did that work?

[1:16:43] » It was just a halfhour meeting to their

[1:16:45] board of directors.

[1:16:46] » Oh, to the board. Okay.

[1:16:48] » Yeah. So,

[1:16:50] you know, it wasn't the entire

[1:16:52] organization.

[1:16:53] Um but they did ask about you know

[1:16:56] things like data centers and you know

[1:16:59] housing and you know I think people are

[1:17:02] generally aware there's increased

[1:17:04] pressures to develop

[1:17:08] you know undeveloped land.

[1:17:11] Um and so you know developing in a way

[1:17:15] that's responsible

[1:17:17] but also protects important resources.

[1:17:21] Um,

[1:17:23] I know Ethan sent a FAQ around. Did we

[1:17:27] want to look at that briefly?

[1:17:34] » We could look at it now or if you wanted

[1:17:37] to just work on it in the next couple

[1:17:39] weeks. Either option. I had just left a

[1:17:41] few blank that might be better suited

[1:17:43] for you all to answer

[1:17:45] » And then you can always add more

[1:17:46] questions to it um from these

[1:17:48] presentations. I think to be honest we

[1:17:50] don't have a couple of weeks um left. I

[1:17:53] I think my understanding is the warrant

[1:17:59] article I'll have to look this up.

[1:18:03] Um I think the window is going to close

[1:18:06] in early October to refer

[1:18:10] articles to town meeting.

[1:18:14] Um I did find out that exact date. I

[1:18:18] just don't have it at the top of my

[1:18:19] head. So, pretty much this month is

[1:18:25] getting things wrapped up and um yeah,

[1:18:29] we we

[1:18:31] there's no more delays. Um

[1:18:35] » Well, I thought Ethan, you did a good

[1:18:37] job. Um because as a newbie here um

[1:18:42] I always learning and I always pick up a

[1:18:46] little fact here or there and I was able

[1:18:48] to pick up a lot here. So as far as

[1:18:51] playing to the average citizen in

[1:18:54] Wakefield. Um I probably am a good

[1:18:58] audience. So I think you did a good job.

[1:19:01] And I'm not quite sure what to add but

[1:19:04] that's just showing my ignorance in

[1:19:06] general. But I I thought it read very

[1:19:09] well and was very clear.

[1:19:13] » Yeah, I tried to keep it specific to the

[1:19:15] bylaw. I think you could do an FAQ about

[1:19:18] the WPA in general and that would be way

[1:19:21] too long, but you know, keeping it

[1:19:23] specific to the bylaw itself and

[1:19:25] questions that come up um soon or

[1:19:28] recently, too. I just had um those last

[1:19:32] couple answers. I didn't quite have the

[1:19:34] answers myself to those. um just

[1:19:37] brainstorming some extra questions that

[1:19:40] could maybe add to or that other

[1:19:41] residents might also have.

[1:19:45] » Yeah, I think at least like uh the the

[1:19:48] second [clears throat] qu or the first

[1:19:48] question I should say that's left blank.

[1:19:51] Why is Wakefield considering

[1:19:52] » The wetlands bylaw? I mean this is just

[1:19:55] that classic talking point of we're one

[1:19:57] of the only towns around here at least

[1:20:00] » Doesn't have one. Um and you know having

[1:20:03] that second bullet point of what is the

[1:20:05] goal of that is just you know further

[1:20:09] cementing

[1:20:10] um you know a slightly more hypersp

[1:20:12] specific to our general area in town you

[1:20:16] know um that has maybe slightly

[1:20:18] different wetlands. They're smaller.

[1:20:20] they're not as big as maybe like Great

[1:20:22] Barington or something, you know, um and

[1:20:25] and protecting them, you know, within a

[1:20:27] certain maybe slightly closer, you know,

[1:20:31] uh buffer area or what have you. But

[1:20:34] yeah, um I'd say those are pretty good,

[1:20:38] you know, last points because it really

[1:20:40] gets to the meat and potatoes of why

[1:20:41] we're doing this and, you know, what

[1:20:44] what the reasoning is behind it.

[1:20:51] My only suggestion on those was to try

[1:20:54] and um use uh colloquial language as

[1:20:59] much as you know because some of the

[1:21:02] things when we say resource area or

[1:21:03] whatever like people don't know what

[1:21:05] that means like you

[1:21:09] um

[1:21:10] » Like more layman's terms

[1:21:11] » Layman's thank you thank you that's a

[1:21:13] good way to put it um and we

[1:21:17] » Which makes sense Yeah.

[1:21:18] » Ask me five years ago. I don't I have no

[1:21:20] idea.

[1:21:25] » Looking for my

[1:21:31] just looking at the points I raised. Um,

[1:21:35] you know, I I think one of the things I

[1:21:37] was thinking about was why it's so

[1:21:40] important to pass it now is there's so

[1:21:42] much happening at the state level

[1:21:45] um that could impact

[1:21:48] the regulations we have today. And so

[1:21:51] it's important to kind of

[1:21:55] set, you know, set a bar for how we want

[1:21:59] to have have things turn out. Um I would

[1:22:04] say the biggest question I've been

[1:22:06] getting to these are um about whether a

[1:22:10] particular project would have you know

[1:22:14] or that a this particular project or

[1:22:16] that particular project would have

[1:22:19] happened if we had had this bylaw in

[1:22:23] place.

[1:22:24] Um, and so I think it's, you know,

[1:22:27] something we probably need to work

[1:22:30] through as a smaller group just thinking

[1:22:33] how we address those scenarios cuz that

[1:22:35] can get a little thorny sometimes.

[1:22:40] » Well, when you mention there's

[1:22:41] [clears throat] so much going on with

[1:22:43] the state, that begs the question,

[1:22:45] what's going on with the state? Why

[1:22:47] should we be worried about the state?

[1:22:50] Why should we have to protect ourselves

[1:22:52] from changes at the state level? Because

[1:22:55] they don't know what the state level

[1:22:57] changes or interests are.

[1:23:01] » I mean, I I think that opens a whole

[1:23:02] another question. What do you mean? I I

[1:23:05] think just I think Drew's response is

[1:23:08] keeping it simple. It's it's local.

[1:23:12] It's, you know, we have local knowledge.

[1:23:14] We have local issues

[1:23:16] » That are going to um set us up for

[1:23:19] success and all the future development

[1:23:22] and whatever else that other towns and

[1:23:26] cities have put together already. We're

[1:23:28] just a little late to the party.

[1:23:30] [clears throat]

[1:23:31] » Yeah.

[1:23:32] » Yeah. Yeah. I I agree. I think keeping

[1:23:34] the focus on on Wakefield is is really

[1:23:39] the move. I I kind of and and

[1:23:43] as I've been talking to it, I've kind of

[1:23:46] talking to it, talking to people about

[1:23:47] it. Uh I've kind of come to this thing

[1:23:52] of like, okay, well,

[1:23:54] what do we have in Wakefield? Like every

[1:23:57] every location has its natural

[1:23:59] resources. Canada has its forests. Um

[1:24:03] you know, places in the Middle East have

[1:24:05] their oil. Um, every every country has

[1:24:08] like its like big natural resource that

[1:24:10] like makes it, you know, unique or

[1:24:13] whatever. And you know, we we're big on

[1:24:16] conservation here in in the US. At least

[1:24:19] we're the point. Um, and you know, what

[1:24:23] does Wakefield have? Wetlands. I mean,

[1:24:27] the entire town is these little

[1:24:29] wetlands. And we have a giant lake,

[1:24:32] famous lake. Everybody loves Lake Hugh.

[1:24:35] That's what we have here in Wfield.

[1:24:37] People come here to walk our forests,

[1:24:40] our wetland areas, to walk around Lake

[1:24:42] Hugh. Um, and to what you said, Barbara,

[1:24:46] like we're the ones who should be

[1:24:49] crafting those more specific laws like

[1:24:52] around our greatest resource because we

[1:24:55] live here. We know what's what's best

[1:24:58] for us as a town, how to manage our own

[1:25:01] resources. So that's kind of my approach

[1:25:05] or what my approach has been.

[1:25:08] » Yeah.

[1:25:11] » Don't you think there also needs to be a

[1:25:12] balance um especially with the push for

[1:25:16] more housing

[1:25:18] because that's a big issue with the

[1:25:19] state. It's a big initiative um with

[1:25:22] what's going on with the Wakefield

[1:25:23] planning department.

[1:25:25] Um, so I think there needs to be a

[1:25:27] balance, not just

[1:25:30] a balanced focus, not just on the

[1:25:33] wetlands itself, but how it's going to

[1:25:35] impact this push for more housing and

[1:25:38] how it could impact someone who wants to

[1:25:40] put an addition on or wants to build an

[1:25:43] ADU

[1:25:44] where there is a push from the state for

[1:25:47] more housing.

[1:25:49] And a lot of grants are incentive based

[1:25:52] based on that. And a lot of the

[1:25:54] directives in town are based on more

[1:25:58] housing. So just you need to create a

[1:26:01] balanced discussion about that as well.

[1:26:03] How will that affect that?

[1:26:05] » Is are you saying Judy a balanced

[1:26:08] discussion or are there things about the

[1:26:12] draft bylaw you think should be changed?

[1:26:15] » Well, I think there needs to be

[1:26:16] discussion about on a granular level. If

[1:26:19] I have a house that was built before the

[1:26:22] regulations that's small, that's closer

[1:26:25] to the wetlands than it may have been

[1:26:26] approved now, are you saying I won't be

[1:26:29] able to build an addition or I won't be

[1:26:30] able to have an ADU?

[1:26:32] That's going to be a big point of

[1:26:35] contention. Well, I think um the way

[1:26:40] I've been thinking about it is

[1:26:44] so far we have not had a project

[1:26:47] come before us where the bylaw

[1:26:52] as we've written it today would change

[1:26:55] the outcome for

[1:26:58] a homeowner.

[1:27:00] um if they wanted if they had a small

[1:27:02] lot, we still would not want them to put

[1:27:05] an ADU within 25 ft of the wetland.

[1:27:10] Um you know, because of flooding

[1:27:13] concerns,

[1:27:14] » Right?

[1:27:14] » Um but that wouldn't change, you know,

[1:27:16] but of course

[1:27:19] we we would

[1:27:21] » Right. But I think developments like um

[1:27:22] the one on Salem Street, there could be

[1:27:24] more like that that are in little

[1:27:25] pockets. How is that going to affect

[1:27:30] the way it's viewed. I think you just

[1:27:32] have to be careful not to present it in

[1:27:35] a way that people feel like you're

[1:27:36] limiting their property rights because

[1:27:39] that's

[1:27:40] » That's not going to

[1:27:41] » Well, so it's interesting with like the

[1:27:43] Salem Street one based on this proposed

[1:27:47] bylaw.

[1:27:49] I'm not sure it would have changed it.

[1:27:53] Although I

[1:27:54] » Right. you have different um interests

[1:27:56] that you've added wildlife habitat, rare

[1:27:59] species habitat that really hasn't

[1:28:01] especially rare species hasn't been um

[1:28:04] identified how that will work if it's

[1:28:07] not in a designated habitat.

[1:28:10] » If there is a species found outside a

[1:28:13] designated habitat, will that then

[1:28:15] require a wetland um habitat evaluation?

[1:28:19] It's things like that. That's kind of

[1:28:21] the minutia that would really be a

[1:28:24] strong impact on people.

[1:28:27] The presumptive nature of things, vernal

[1:28:29] pools, um things like that I think just

[1:28:33] concern people. Like does this mean it's

[1:28:35] going to add another $5,000 to my

[1:28:38] project if I have to have a review for a

[1:28:40] ver pool or for a wildlife habitat?

[1:28:44] » I think it's mostly going to impact

[1:28:46] undeveloped properties.

[1:28:49] » Right. No, I agree.

[1:28:50] » Yeah. Um but not your average homeowner.

[1:28:54] So,

[1:28:55] » But

[1:28:57] [clears throat] I hope that would be the

[1:28:59] way, but if it's a presumptive um value

[1:29:04] in the bylaw, you could say, well, this

[1:29:08] is a a ponding area that could be a

[1:29:10] vernal pool. Jennifer has said that um

[1:29:13] that that was the information she had.

[1:29:15] Any ponding area could potentially be a

[1:29:17] vernal pool.

[1:29:18] So depending on, you know, that's where

[1:29:21] it has to be able to weather different

[1:29:24] commissioners as well. Depending on the

[1:29:26] makeup, it could really affect strongly

[1:29:30] affect um

[1:29:33] land rights.

[1:29:40] » Do you have language you want to

[1:29:41] suggest?

[1:29:44] Well, I think just the presumptive

[1:29:46] nature of everything that concerns me

[1:29:50] because it's subjective.

[1:29:54] It's based on what the commission at the

[1:29:56] time

[1:29:58] um feels. It's not, you know, the

[1:30:01] exemptions are different. The vernal

[1:30:03] pool, for example, it I mean that could

[1:30:06] turn in so many different ways. it would

[1:30:09] create a um

[1:30:12] a time lag if you're only going to allow

[1:30:15] the verification of a vermal pool in the

[1:30:18] springtime.

[1:30:20] It's things like that that can crush a

[1:30:23] project.

[1:30:24] » I think we Oh, go on. No, I was just

[1:30:27] going to say if you want support from

[1:30:30] the town and from the initiatives that

[1:30:33] are in front of them that people are

[1:30:34] talking about which is housing things

[1:30:36] like that then I think they need this

[1:30:39] needs to be a view on that of how it

[1:30:41] could be perceived by different

[1:30:43] commissions in the future.

[1:30:49] Um, I think the vernal pools

[1:30:53] likely and known are pretty much, you

[1:30:56] know, we know where they are. They've

[1:30:58] been pretty well

[1:31:00] marked. Um,

[1:31:05] but yeah, I think this is going to be um

[1:31:08] a tough one. I think it's about the

[1:31:10] future of Wakefield and do does

[1:31:12] Wakefield want to become Cambridge or

[1:31:15] does Wakefield want to be more like

[1:31:20] a Winchester or I I don't want to say

[1:31:22] Lynfield because they don't

[1:31:25] » But that's where I think bargaining

[1:31:26] comes in trying to strike a happy

[1:31:29] medium. Mhm.

[1:31:31] » I mean, if you take um a BBW for

[1:31:34] instance with the 25 foot setback, if

[1:31:36] the setback is totally denuted of

[1:31:39] vegetation and is providing no value,

[1:31:42] would you allow um a right up to the 25

[1:31:46] foot if they were going to have a wildly

[1:31:49] enhanced buffer of native vegetation? I

[1:31:52] mean, it's those trade-offs that I think

[1:31:54] are important to discuss.

[1:31:56] » I think we would consider that,

[1:31:58] » Right? But it's things like this that

[1:31:59] need to come out because people see the

[1:32:01] 25 foot setback and say I won't be able

[1:32:03] to do anything. But I think it's a case

[1:32:06] by case basis based on the condition of

[1:32:09] what you're looking at at that time.

[1:32:11] » Right?

[1:32:12] » Not and that I that needs to come out

[1:32:15] more. If there's no value to it today,

[1:32:18] if you're increasing it, then that buys

[1:32:20] you good faith in another area.

[1:32:22] » Correct. It's about all about the

[1:32:24] bargaining.

[1:32:25] » Yeah. I I think um

[1:32:28] yeah, I think that part is

[1:32:32] the hardest because you only get at that

[1:32:34] on these one-on-one conversations,

[1:32:36] » Right?

[1:32:37] » Um but

[1:32:41] um it's it's interesting some some of

[1:32:43] the vibe I the feedback I've been

[1:32:45] getting is that, you know, this may not

[1:32:48] be protective enough. Um

[1:32:51] » But I think people

[1:32:53] I think it's

[1:32:55] From my experience and people I've

[1:32:58] talked to over the years,

[1:33:00] » If you don't live

[1:33:02] in an area that's going to be affected

[1:33:04] by it, it's the greatest thing. I mean,

[1:33:06] I'm all for wetland preservation,

[1:33:09] » Right?

[1:33:09] » But when you're directly impacted by it,

[1:33:12] it's a totally different story.

[1:33:14] And I think that's where there needs to

[1:33:16] be a balance and it needs to be um

[1:33:21] elaborated on. And I don't think it has

[1:33:23] in this process.

[1:33:26] » I'm looking at the FAQ I'm looking at

[1:33:28] the FAQs

[1:33:30] and [clears throat] under the sorry

[1:33:32] paragraph it says what can I do within a

[1:33:35] 25- ft no disturb zone. On the last

[1:33:38] sentence says determination will be made

[1:33:40] on a case-byase basis. So should we add

[1:33:43] language to that that makes it more open

[1:33:46] um to negotiation if you will? I don't

[1:33:50] know what the better term is. Um I don't

[1:33:53] think that's the right word. Um

[1:33:56] open to discussion I guess. Um

[1:33:58] consideration

[1:34:00] um is a good word. Um so would you make

[1:34:03] more of that Judy? Would you would you

[1:34:05] say more to that that paragraph? Well, I

[1:34:09] think you could have expand it to say it

[1:34:12] will the status of the functional value

[1:34:15] will be reviewed so that people know if

[1:34:19] it's I mean it could be all invasives,

[1:34:21] it could be nothing in the buffer.

[1:34:24] So that's your starting point. You're

[1:34:27] working in a a degraded buffer that's

[1:34:29] providing no value,

[1:34:31] » Right?

[1:34:33] » Yeah. Yeah. And also the if you if you

[1:34:35] have the 25 foot buffer,

[1:34:37] » My question would be what would happen

[1:34:40] in foot 26 and 27

[1:34:43] » Would it doesn't seem like equipment

[1:34:45] would be allowed I mean if you're

[1:34:47] allowed to build up to the 25 foot if

[1:34:50] you don't have equipment in there it

[1:34:53] looks like the buffer is going to be a

[1:34:54] lot wider. there'll be the buffer, the

[1:34:56] no disturb, but then to me it reads that

[1:34:59] there'd be another substantial buffer.

[1:35:05] » The way I was describing it was the 25

[1:35:08] foot applied to your undisturbed like

[1:35:13] lot essentially because if you have lawn

[1:35:16] that's going into the 25 foot buffer

[1:35:18] that's been grandfathered.

[1:35:20] If you had a shed that was built years

[1:35:22] ago, you know, that's grandfathered,

[1:35:24] » Right? But it's not grandfathered to put

[1:35:26] a new structure.

[1:35:30] » No, we'd want you further away unless

[1:35:32] that's your only option,

[1:35:34] » Right? But this is what I'm saying.

[1:35:36] » But but if it's degraded, then we could

[1:35:39] say, "Oh, you have one already." Yes.

[1:35:41] you know, um,

[1:35:43] » But if you have the 25 foot not disturb

[1:35:46] and someone wants to put something at 30

[1:35:49] feet,

[1:35:51] it to me it doesn't seem like that would

[1:35:53] be something that will be permittable

[1:35:54] for the most part under the bylaw

[1:35:57] » Because because of heavy equipment.

[1:36:00] Are you going to let equipment in the I

[1:36:02] mean it

[1:36:03] » To me reads it's going to be a much

[1:36:05] wider buffer than people think it is.

[1:36:08] » 25 ft. I think it really depends on how

[1:36:12] big the parcel is. If you've got a 2

[1:36:15] acre parcel, you don't have to clear up

[1:36:18] to the 25 ft,

[1:36:20] » Right? But there aren't I mean there

[1:36:22] really aren't many.

[1:36:24] The biggest impact I see is going to

[1:36:26] happen is on the single family

[1:36:27] homeowner.

[1:36:29] » They go ahead.

[1:36:31] » The larger projects have more funding

[1:36:33] behind it. They have more opportunity

[1:36:34] for mitigation, things like that. And

[1:36:36] historically, that's where the impact

[1:36:38] has been because that's the most number

[1:36:40] of projects, the smaller projects.

[1:36:45] » I actually don't think it's going to

[1:36:46] impact the single family homeowner any

[1:36:48] different than the Wetlands Protection

[1:36:51] Act today because the lots are already

[1:36:53] small and they're already they have

[1:36:56] existing homes. I think the question we

[1:36:59] need to think about is if they

[1:37:02] tear down and rebuild and want to make

[1:37:05] something a lot bigger, you know, how

[1:37:09] » Right? But even if they wanted to make

[1:37:10] an addition, I mean, you have

[1:37:12] jurisdiction over 100 ft. So if you had

[1:37:15] the 25 foot no disturb, you could easily

[1:37:18] say, well, we want another 30t before

[1:37:20] you can even start work.

[1:37:23] So then

[1:37:26] » You don't think you you think you would

[1:37:28] allow someone to build up to the 27 feet

[1:37:32] from the wetland?

[1:37:34] » It depends on their lot. It's case by

[1:37:36] case basis,

[1:37:37] » Right? But I I don't see I don't see

[1:37:40] that happening based on the review of

[1:37:42] how things go. It seems like it's

[1:37:45] heading towards a wish for a greater

[1:37:48] setback,

[1:37:50] a greater buffer.

[1:37:58] I I think that I

[1:38:00] you know I think we recognize

[1:38:02] limitations of the small lots and

[1:38:06] you know what people are working with

[1:38:08] and um you know

[1:38:14] I don't see that as an issue.

[1:38:17] » Well even for a fence you'd need a

[1:38:18] permit now.

[1:38:23] And like the discussion tonight,

[1:38:27] there are some set wildlife corridors,

[1:38:29] but is it going to be prohibitive

[1:38:33] that you won't want a fence in a yard

[1:38:36] because it might impede wildlife

[1:38:39] migration?

[1:38:44] » Well, we didn't force it. They were they

[1:38:46] were open to it and I mean that was

[1:38:50] that I mean that wetland was uphill so

[1:38:53] that was there's not going to be an

[1:38:54] impact there anyways.

[1:38:55] » Yeah.

[1:38:56] » But it's little things like that that if

[1:38:58] someone can't have a fence,

[1:39:01] this is what I'm talking about where the

[1:39:03] impact comes in.

[1:39:04] » But we're not saying somebody can't have

[1:39:05] a fence.

[1:39:08] » You're not saying it's prohibited,

[1:39:12] but before it it really wouldn't have

[1:39:14] been. I mean, it's little things like

[1:39:16] that that chip away at people's

[1:39:20] property rights, you know, that get

[1:39:22] under people's skin. It's the small

[1:39:24] things

[1:39:25] that I think would turn people.

[1:39:27] » This is just boiling down to whether or

[1:39:28] not people would support or deny this.

[1:39:32] » Yes.

[1:39:33] » Yes.

[1:39:34] » Not whether or not it's it's right or

[1:39:36] not under the eyes of

[1:39:38] » Right

[1:39:39] » Conservation.

[1:39:40] » Right. But I think you have to have

[1:39:41] concrete reasons for I mean there are

[1:39:44] mapped wildlife carters in town.

[1:39:48] it be great if we share them on our

[1:39:51] website.

[1:39:55] » Elaine has them. Go ahead.

[1:40:00] » I think some of the challenges we don't

[1:40:03] know how exactly each project will end

[1:40:06] up until it is a permit. So, while you

[1:40:10] might be able to say this will be

[1:40:12] reviewed the same as the WPA or or it

[1:40:14] won't be any different. We just a

[1:40:16] homeowner won't know that until they

[1:40:19] receive that exact decision. So, it just

[1:40:21] puts a lot of

[1:40:23] the um a lot of the opinion into the

[1:40:27] commission and there's not really an

[1:40:29] exact limit on what they can require of

[1:40:33] a homeowner. They they just want to be

[1:40:36] sure that nothing will change. So, you

[1:40:39] can say it'll be the same, but someone

[1:40:42] voting for it isn't going to know who's

[1:40:45] going to be on the commission in 20

[1:40:47] years from now, for example.

[1:40:48] » But it's the way with um anything. I

[1:40:51] mean,

[1:40:53] even the D,

[1:40:55] you know, um,

[1:40:58] » Who's to say the

[1:40:59] » Who's to say the Declaration of

[1:41:00] Independence was written correctly

[1:41:02] because it's written by guys has allowed

[1:41:04] something

[1:41:04] » In the 1600s, you know? I don't

[1:41:07] » Yeah.

[1:41:08] » Well, I Yeah, I think I think it's it's

[1:41:10] just it's just the question of how do we

[1:41:12] talk about this?

[1:41:13] » Yep. like just being strategic about how

[1:41:15] do we because people are going to have

[1:41:17] these questions and and you know bring

[1:41:20] them up. Um and it's going to be it's

[1:41:23] going to be what's happening here this

[1:41:26] back and forth which tends to actually

[1:41:29] just get people frustrated more than

[1:41:31] anything. I mean I saw it all the time

[1:41:33] when I was campaigning for town council.

[1:41:36] It's like the more you have to explain

[1:41:37] something the more people get

[1:41:39] frustrated. Um

[1:41:41] » I think I think taking so long we're

[1:41:43] going to lose people.

[1:41:44] » Yeah.

[1:41:45] » Yeah. At at this point I feel like it's

[1:41:47] gonna no matter what we do is if we're

[1:41:49] going to take longer and longer people

[1:41:50] are going to be like well I don't want

[1:41:51] to vote for this anymore. This there's

[1:41:52] way too many stipulations.

[1:41:54] I mean, at the at the end of the day, I

[1:41:56] think like

[1:42:00] the the way that I would maybe approach

[1:42:03] it is just is to kind of take what you

[1:42:05] were saying, Eleanor, like like this is

[1:42:08] a this is a 25 foot buffer within the

[1:42:12] existing WPA

[1:42:15] buffer. It's not an extension

[1:42:18] of the buffer. It's just a it's just a

[1:42:21] like slightly more restrictive area

[1:42:23] within that existing buffer. And that

[1:42:27] will immediately allay people's fears

[1:42:29] about like oh they're expanding their

[1:42:32] their restrictions like outside of what

[1:42:35] already exists.

[1:42:37] » Yeah.

[1:42:37] » Um and then and then just to say like we

[1:42:40] also we we don't think that it will be

[1:42:44] » So impactful as to be like a huge burden

[1:42:46] on on people

[1:42:47] » [clears throat]

[1:42:47] » Um because of that fact. Um, and then

[1:42:50] just to be like

[1:42:52] I mean personally

[1:42:55] I can be like you guys know how pro

[1:42:59] housing I am and I don't I'm supporting

[1:43:02] this fully. I don't think it's going to

[1:43:04] you know just on an interpersonal level

[1:43:06] like if you if you know someone

[1:43:07] personally or like they know you and you

[1:43:09] know it's just like I wouldn't be

[1:43:11] supporting this like you know you know

[1:43:13] what my thoughts are and that kind of

[1:43:15] thing.

[1:43:17] Um,

[1:43:19] yeah. So, I think, yeah, I I think it's

[1:43:23] just something we're going to have to

[1:43:25] speak to and people are either going to

[1:43:27] be for it or not for it for reasons. Um

[1:43:33] but you know we do like the pressures

[1:43:35] that are on right now is the you know

[1:43:38] pressured for accelerated large scale

[1:43:40] housing or ADUs

[1:43:43] um accelerated permitting for solar and

[1:43:46] battery energy storage systems. So

[1:43:49] loosening up those restrictions

[1:43:52] um and that's where um those things will

[1:43:55] probably happen in larger lots or closer

[1:43:58] to wetlands.

[1:44:00] Um,

[1:44:04] but any anyway, um, if Ethan or Judy, if

[1:44:08] you have any comments, you should

[1:44:10] probably,

[1:44:12] um, send them to us ahead of the next

[1:44:14] meeting.

[1:44:16] Um, because we're going to have to kind

[1:44:19] of finalize

[1:44:22] edits.

[1:44:24] Um,

[1:44:30] and James and Drew and Barbara, if you

[1:44:32] guys want to take one last look through

[1:44:34] the materials

[1:44:37] um

[1:44:38] that Jennifer sent out,

[1:44:48] I think even um it probably would be a

[1:44:51] good idea to visit visit um

[1:44:56] you know some of the larger projects

[1:44:59] around town to sort of see you know the

[1:45:03] before and after.

[1:45:05] Um, you know, I,

[1:45:14] you know, I think a bunch of residents

[1:45:15] visited the Vogue this past weekend. Um,

[1:45:21] and I don't see many wetlands along that

[1:45:24] road anymore.

[1:45:26] Um,

[1:45:30] so it's it's pretty pretty dramatic.

[1:45:34] Um,

[1:45:38] see if I had anything else that Ethan,

[1:45:40] did Jennifer mention anything else? Like

[1:45:42] I said, I was

[1:45:45] » I don't think I saw her email today.

[1:45:47] » Okay.

[1:45:49] Um,

[1:45:52] » But I can take a look um this week.

[1:45:55] » Thank you so much. Um,

[1:45:58] » I think she basically wanted us to wait

[1:46:00] until she and Paul could be

[1:46:02] » Call back. Yeah. So, I don't think they

[1:46:04] expect anything much out of our evening

[1:46:07] tonight.

[1:46:08] » I I would say if you guys think of other

[1:46:11] FAQs,

[1:46:12] you know, that you're hearing

[1:46:15] to send them to Ethan, Jennifer, myself,

[1:46:20] um, and we can take a stab at them.

[1:46:30] Um, Ethan, do you have any

[1:46:34] updates? Should we move on to any

[1:46:36] updates? Or did you guys have anything

[1:46:38] else you wanted to say about the bylaw?

[1:46:44] » Just the flyer. I think I emailed

[1:46:47] Jennifer yesterday. Um, just getting the

[1:46:50] last edits on that flyer.

[1:46:51] » Okay.

[1:46:52] » So, I'll follow up tomorrow morning just

[1:46:54] to see if those are the last edits and

[1:46:56] can get a final um document to start to

[1:46:59] use.

[1:47:00] Okay, that would be great.

[1:47:02] Um,

[1:47:10] and then I believe the plan um maybe

[1:47:13] Jennifer is going to the planning board

[1:47:15] next Tuesday to present to them.

[1:47:18] » I think the two of us are going to the

[1:47:20] planning board. And actually, I wanted

[1:47:23] to ask you and maybe you can find out

[1:47:25] from Marissa.

[1:47:27] We've talked about the 25 foot like they

[1:47:31] have a 25 foot policy. I think Jennifer

[1:47:34] and I were told that maybe

[1:47:38] you know when we presented to them over

[1:47:40] a year ago

[1:47:42] um I'm not sure if that's actually true

[1:47:45] or like what that is. So I'd be

[1:47:48] interested in

[1:47:49] » I don't think they have a I think they

[1:47:51] try to follow what the commission does

[1:47:53] but I don't think they have a policy.

[1:47:55] » Okay. Okay.

[1:47:55] » The open space bylaw has a 20 foot

[1:47:57] setback. So, it was not consistent.

[1:47:59] Anyways,

[1:48:00] » Say that again, Judy. The

[1:48:01] » The open space bylaw has a 20 foot

[1:48:04] setback.

[1:48:05] » Open space bylaw.

[1:48:06] » Yeah.

[1:48:09] » What uh what does that mean exactly?

[1:48:11] Because

[1:48:12] » It's like um cluster development,

[1:48:16] keeping closest uh houses closer in

[1:48:18] proximity and having an open space. It's

[1:48:22] not often um

[1:48:25] used.

[1:48:28] » So, is that like um a policy only? And

[1:48:33] so,

[1:48:33] » It's a bylaw.

[1:48:34] » Oh, it's a bylaw.

[1:48:34] » It's in the bylaw. Yeah.

[1:48:36] » Oh, I'm not sure.

[1:48:39] Maybe I've seen that. I I guess I'm

[1:48:41] thinking of a development in my

[1:48:43] neighborhood where the house is right

[1:48:46] next to the wetland, like maybe 10 feet.

[1:48:49] Um,

[1:48:51] but then there's probably a 20ft

[1:48:54] distance. Is it between homes or between

[1:48:59] » The homes are more densely packed?

[1:49:02] There's one on Main Street right by BB

[1:49:04] Cove. The large houses um carriage

[1:49:07] estates.

[1:49:08] » Okay.

[1:49:10] » They have a big um area in the middle.

[1:49:13] They have a circle and there's a grass

[1:49:14] area.

[1:49:16] It's so there's either attachment to

[1:49:18] other open space where you can have

[1:49:19] walking paths or like a common open

[1:49:22] space area to maximize um the use of the

[1:49:26] land on the lot placing the houses

[1:49:28] closer together and keeping an open

[1:49:30] space.

[1:49:32] » Okay. But that 20 foot thing is between

[1:49:35] it's not between houses. It's between

[1:49:37] » It's to the wetland. It's a step back to

[1:49:39] the wetland.

[1:49:40] » Oh, just 20 feet. Okay.

[1:49:42] » Yes.

[1:49:43] » I didn't to the wetland. Okay. Yep.

[1:49:46] » I didn't realize we had

[1:49:49] » Cluster cluster development has been

[1:49:51] very popular since the 80s and um it

[1:49:55] been applied where I used to live in New

[1:49:57] Jersey all the time and it was to

[1:50:00] maximize the green space to maintain a

[1:50:03] nice green area uh and cluster the homes

[1:50:06] usually around a culde-sac or a little

[1:50:08] circle as Judy said. um you know just a

[1:50:12] a short a short and minimized

[1:50:14] [clears throat] the amount of um

[1:50:16] imperous coverage too because you just

[1:50:18] had a a drive-in and a circle and then

[1:50:21] little driveways. So um it was yeah it

[1:50:25] was a good solution to a lot of a lot of

[1:50:28] developer um situations and demanded by

[1:50:31] the public because of the green space

[1:50:34] keeping it green all the way around. I'm

[1:50:36] sorry they didn't do that on Salem, but

[1:50:38] that's another story.

[1:50:41] Why? I guess that's Well, I that's

[1:50:44] something I'd want to understand. I

[1:50:46] guess when you see that I I thought

[1:50:48] there'd be something left over, not

[1:50:53] cleared. Um,

[1:50:57] okay. Would you consider cluster the

[1:50:59] first project we looked at like the NOI

[1:51:04] where all the houses were around the

[1:51:06] pond?

[1:51:08] » No. Go ahead. No,

[1:51:10] » I think it's more when you have one

[1:51:12] development like multiple houses

[1:51:15] » Put the houses closer.

[1:51:18] » They put the houses closer together.

[1:51:20] That way you leave a a more productive

[1:51:23] barrier around them.

[1:51:25] » Okay.

[1:51:26] » Think of like a think of like a

[1:51:28] courtyard unit except instead of being

[1:51:30] connected, they're separate houses that

[1:51:32] are just very close together.

[1:51:34] » Okay.

[1:51:38] Um,

[1:51:40] does anybody

[1:51:42] else have Oh, Ethan, we've been getting

[1:51:44] a lot of emails. I guess we should go to

[1:51:47] other business or agent update.

[1:51:55] » I don't have any updates for myself.

[1:51:57] » Okay.

[1:51:59] Um, you saw the request from um,

[1:52:06] oh goodness, now I have to pull up the

[1:52:08] mailbox. Um, someone requesting you to

[1:52:12] look at sizing for a deck.

[1:52:17] » Um,

[1:52:19] for a deck maybe that came in today.

[1:52:22] » Okay. I think that was last week.

[1:52:25] Um

[1:52:29] and then I had

[1:52:32] I guess I had a general question which

[1:52:34] is how are we tracking

[1:52:37] um we have a number of enforcement

[1:52:40] orders. Some of them predate

[1:52:44] me and maybe even Paul.

[1:52:47] How are we tracking them to make sure

[1:52:49] that they're kind of meeting their

[1:52:54] you know, the time frames that the

[1:52:56] commission is putting in place and that

[1:52:58] we don't lose sight of them. Do do you

[1:53:01] guys have a tracker? And I would say

[1:53:03] that too for the certificates of

[1:53:05] compliance.

[1:53:08] » Yes, I sort of just have them all in the

[1:53:10] files and then anything recent or

[1:53:13] ongoing, I have um spreadsheets or lists

[1:53:16] of like things to follow up on um

[1:53:20] between myself and Elaine. Um just

[1:53:22] keeping track of the status of them all.

[1:53:24] So

[1:53:25] » Okay because I there have been

[1:53:26] [clears throat] some we haven't heard

[1:53:28] updates at all u that have probably

[1:53:32] » You know be I follow up on them when I

[1:53:34] can but they tend to take some time.

[1:53:37] » Yeah. No no no to close them down. I

[1:53:39] don't I don't know how we can help you

[1:53:42] um expedite or or what's sort of if a

[1:53:45] deadline has come and gone like what's

[1:53:49] the next step?

[1:53:52] You said please remediate you know do

[1:53:55] this thing by the state and it doesn't

[1:53:57] happen. Are you

[1:53:59] um in contact with the person?

[1:54:04] Yep. I would follow up with them.

[1:54:06] Typically there they don't have dates on

[1:54:08] them typically, but just using my

[1:54:10] judgment to kind of move them along if I

[1:54:13] feel like it's been long enough.

[1:54:15] » Oh, I thought we were supposed to have

[1:54:17] dates on enforcement orders so that we

[1:54:20] can move them along.

[1:54:25] » Um, sometimes they do, sometimes they

[1:54:27] just have steps, but

[1:54:30] » It is good to have dates. You're right.

[1:54:32] » Yeah. just it it would be satisfying I

[1:54:35] think for everybody to be able to put

[1:54:37] some of them behind us. Anyway, um I

[1:54:42] don't have anything else at the moment.

[1:54:53] Can I get an order to Sorry. Can I get a

[1:54:57] um motion to adjurnn the meeting?

[1:55:01] Yeah, I'll make a motion to adjurnn.

[1:55:04] » Second.

[1:55:06] Can I get a second?

[1:55:07] » Second.

[1:55:11] » Um,

[1:55:14] I'm so tired. I'm forgetting to take

[1:55:16] attendance. Uh, James,

[1:55:20] » Yes.

[1:55:21] » True.

[1:55:22] » Yes.

[1:55:22] » Barbara, I lost you.

[1:55:24] » Okay.

[1:55:25] » And I'm a Yes. Um, thank you all for

[1:55:27] your help and um, your input and

[1:55:32] everything. Um, thank you Judy, thank

[1:55:34] you Ethan. We'll see you at the uh, next

[1:55:37] meeting.

Wakefield Conservation Commission Meeting: September 2, 2026

Transcript