[0:16] All right, with the hour being after 7:00, we have a

[0:19] meeting planning board with four members

[0:22] present, so meeting's open. First item, minutes May 28th

[0:28] and June 18th.

[0:31] Make a motion to accept. >> Second.

[0:34] » Second. Any discussions? All in favor?

[0:37] » Aye. >> Aye.

[0:39] » Opposed? Abstain? There we go. All right.

[0:45] Let's see. Let's

[0:49] We still got 5 minutes before the extension.

[0:55] Couple more things.

[0:59] I'll try to knock out the easy ones in the 5

[1:01] minutes. Cuz some of these are going to take a

[1:05] bit, so we'll go down to modification. Bristol Renma.

[1:11] Someone here for that?

[1:15] Nobody's here? >> Huh. Which one did you say?

[1:20] » I'm looking for someone for representing Bristol Brothers.

[1:24] No?

[1:32] Okay. They didn't come. All right. Did everybody get a copy of this?

[1:36] » Mhm. >> All right.

[1:37] So, they're looking for modification. All they had is moving a

[1:41] a repositioned non-the-ground recharge system, so

[1:46] that doesn't describe it. >> Mhm.

[1:49] » Did they give you a no >> description of where what what's being

[1:52] moved and where? >> Well, it should be on the plan, right?

[1:56] No? >> I thought it was.

[2:00] » It's a question of what's what was there and what's being

[2:04] added or something.

[2:08] Yes, so what they're talking about might be six uh C4C

[2:12] plan. >> C4?

[2:14] » C4C, yeah. It might be the best view if that's what

[2:18] they actually talked about.

[2:27] » Here is 25 and 36.

[2:32] And oh.

[2:37] » You can also see C3C. >> Mhm.

[2:41] » That shows the building numbers. So it looks like there's some little

[2:43] infiltration basin 2A. >> Yeah, it's submitted because of doing

[2:48] infiltration they're able to knock down the size of the basin itself.

[2:55] » And I'll see what where they moved anything or I don't

[2:59] know if they actually moved anything. >> Is this one right here?

[3:03] » Yeah. Do you know what's that shrinking it?

[3:08] Well,

[3:13] not the end.

[3:16] » So they're shrinking the retaining wall because of it.

[3:18] » Yeah, 10 ft to 4 ft. >> Because it's gone down so much in size.

[3:24] » Yeah, I understand. >> And the thing is

[3:26] » what gets me is nobody's here. Mhm. They didn't cloud anything. This is why I've

[3:30] done this for business forever. Put a cloud on it and show up.

[3:34] And John has a question. He's not 100% sure. We we shouldn't be guessing.

[3:38] » Mhm. >> They should say, "Here it is." Boom,

[3:40] presented to us. >> There's usually always somebody here.

[3:43] » Yeah, so >> Taylor said she would be here.

[3:46] » Mhm. >> Taylor said she would be here.

[3:49] I I she thought we weren't taking it right away. Maybe.

[3:52] » Now, aren't any of these buildings sold already?

[3:55] » Well, >> Yes.

[3:56] » For now, I'm going to say we can't rule on anything until someone explains it or

[4:01] whatever. They show up later, fine, but if they don't,

[4:04] just tell them they've got to show up and give us plans

[4:07] that have, what do you call, clouds on them.

[4:10] » Existing and non-existing. >> That's how we know what you're talking

[4:12] about, so.

[4:15] All right, you still got a second here. New pond.

[4:23] All right, 16. What are we doing there? 18.

[4:28] We have a

[4:31] Okay. You're going to amend the order

[4:34] conditions >> The order was already done.

[4:36] » and the storm water and So,

[4:43] what are you guys doing? >> So,

[4:46] we were recently here for our second review.

[4:49] approved the plans we got approved before

[4:52] and there was some issues with the

[4:55] aesthetics of the parking lot that you see

[4:58] you would have seen right when you drive into the

[5:01] I'm going to hold this up because things are working.

[5:05] There were some issues with the um seeing the parking lot that's right

[5:09] there and the neighbors had

[5:13] um well, we were in great displeasure with the fact that it was so close to

[5:17] their garden, so the

[5:21] » Well, >> we need two things for the board. We're

[5:23] requesting two things from the board that you vote to determine if it's in

[5:27] fact a minor modification and then a vote to approve the minor

[5:32] modification and um The only modifications that have been

[5:38] made, like I said, Oh, thank you.

[5:40] Um is this parking lot right here has been

[5:44] removed. And in addition,

[5:48] as we're

[5:49] we're um we're placing that in the existing head-in parking spaces right

[5:53] here, that's the south of

[5:56] what's supposed to be the addition to the building.

[6:01] They are going to add parking up here to the north.

[6:06] And it'll be here to the northeast. They're going to reduce paving right

[6:11] here. And then the courtyard is going to have

[6:15] some changes. There's two courtyards. They're just going to increase the size

[6:19] of the walkway, the oval walkway. They're going to make it bigger.

[6:23] And then the other courtyard, instead of an oval, they're going to make it a

[6:27] square and they're going to put sidewalks in there.

[6:31] Um some of the improvements to the

[6:34] courtyard triggered some storm water issues, so

[6:40] uh we went before the uh conservation commission.

[6:44] Um they voted on it. They approved it. Um we have an amended order of

[6:48] conditions. And now we're just waiting to see if the

[6:52] planning board will uh vote on it for whether it is a minor

[6:56] modification. And then uh once that's done, hopefully

[7:01] uh approve the amendment for modification.

[7:06] » All right. So, in a summary of

[7:10] reducing you killed the parking lot, reduced the

[7:12] number of spaces, and reduced the total pavement.

[7:16] » Just location. The parking count doesn't change at all.

[7:18] » That's what I'm saying. The parking count stays the parking count stays the

[7:22] same, but by doing that, wherever you picked it up, you get less pavement.

[7:26] » Right. >> Okay.

[7:28] I just want to make sure. Um so,

[7:31] John, questions from us?

[7:33] » Um

[7:36] Uh the little extension to the top left kind of,

[7:41] that's access for the pool house only. >> I'm sorry, what did you say?

[7:47] » Um About halfway across and about 4 in

[7:51] down. Up.

[7:54] Up. That one. The the roadway there.

[7:58] Reference here is uh >> Oh.

[8:00] » reduction in pavement width. How much reduction?

[8:04] » Um I don't know how much is being reduced.

[8:14] I'm not familiar how much is being reduced.

[8:21] All I know is that this does the only change in the driveway. Is that just

[8:25] reduction in pavement right there? But I I'm just I apologize, I don't know what

[8:29] the square footage is. >> Is that portion of the driveway only to

[8:34] access the pool house building? >> Yes, behind the pool house just as it

[8:39] was. I mean, this is the same access that was presented on the first set of

[8:43] plans before the board. I thought that one I think was the last call.

[8:47] Um and they're just reducing the amount of

[8:50] pavement. They're cutting some of it out. But it it appears correct. It is

[8:53] access to the um pool house and pool.

[8:58] » Um

[9:05] And it doesn't have a

[9:11] There is no scale on here.

[9:14] Good. Nothing.

[9:21] There is no scale on there, either. Okay.

[9:26] Number of parking spots isn't changing. That's good.

[9:31] » [clears throat] >> The

[9:34] oval walkway area, the area around that, does that include

[9:39] parking? Is that what I'm looking at? >> No, this is just the sidewalks.

[9:44] They're just They're just walking areas.

[9:52] » What is the light beige colored area there? Is that the building?

[9:57] » Right here? >> Yes.

[9:58] » So, this is the >> That's the new building. Okay. Sorry.

[10:06] That's okay. I understand.

[10:13] So, the parking in the top right is just a extension of what's already there. Is

[10:18] that right? >> Correct.

[10:19] We just moved some of the spaces from there and over here to the

[10:22] to the west a little bit. >> Okay.

[10:27] That's fine.

[10:37] Um I have no other questions. So, that's it.

[10:40] » Okay. >> Okay.

[10:43] » Nadine, the the shaded area, is that new?

[10:47] » Here? >> So, I understand

[10:50] » Yeah. This is the proposed phase. This was on the east parking lot right here.

[10:55] » Yes. >> This is the proposed phase. This was on

[10:58] the site plan before. >> Okay.

[11:01] So, it's just shaded. >> It's just Yeah, so I don't know what

[11:04] your previous shade was. >> Um

[11:08] » Yeah. >> Yours is brighter, but it's the same.

[11:10] » Yeah, so the only changes are what's in red.

[11:15] » And so, there's a whole lot of I didn't

[11:19] count them. So, there's a whole lot of spots in the area that's being

[11:24] eliminated. >> Yeah.

[11:26] » And the new spots are going up top. All of

[11:29] » There's There's some right here and those ones there. Okay. Still to the

[11:32] south of the proposed new >> Yep.

[11:39] Okay. Yep.

[11:44] Okay. And there's no building changes, it's

[11:47] just okay. [clears throat] I have nothing.

[11:50] » Okay, Bruce. I was trying to ask the question I was

[11:53] going to ask, but I'm that road that goes around like a fire road, too.

[11:58] That goes around the back of it. >> Yeah.

[12:00] » Yes. >> So nothing's like with that change and

[12:02] like you're just adding on to that when you're adding the spaces.

[12:05] » Right, they're just moving the big thing is moving

[12:08] » Yeah, just that one there. But up around the back of it right there where that

[12:12] road continues right around. >> Yes, that does.

[12:14] » Yeah. >> There is no changes.

[12:15] » No changes to the road. Okay.

[12:20] You're all set? >> Yep.

[12:21] » Good. All right.

[12:23] » Sorry. >> All right, sounds like that.

[12:25] » Okay. >> Question already answered at the start.

[12:27] Um All right, I'll make a motion that's a

[12:30] minor modification. >> Second that.

[12:33] » It was second. All in favor? >> I.

[12:35] » I. >> Opposed, abstain, minor.

[12:41] » I'm here for another one. Sorry.

[12:45] » Ron. Ron.

[12:47] Okay, I'm going to All right, now getting back. Um

[12:54] How are you feeling? That person showed up.

[12:57] Okay, well they don't. >> Yeah, they don't.

[13:00] » There's a lot of them. >> Um

[13:02] The other thing from Walsh, I'll do that now since we already

[13:05] did the other one.

[13:14] Okay. The hour being after 7:10, we have a

[13:18] public hearing for remand for for Walsh, John Walsh for definitive

[13:23] subdivision plan on Lincoln Road. And this is the opening night, so we're

[13:29] opening it and we have from the council that says

[13:36] Walsh Brothers wishes to continue this matter until the August 26th meeting and

[13:42] once they want it before a full board cuz there's only four of us. So,

[13:46] uh and do we know is there any time frame

[13:49] that's been verified with Lane? >> No time frame.

[13:53] » He said we're all set. Please make sure you put that in

[13:57] descending in email. >> No, I'll have them write me an email.

[13:59] » Yes, all right. With that being said, uh

[14:04] I'll make a motion to continue the hearing until what's our next meeting?

[14:08] August 20th? >> 20th.

[14:10] » So, we have 4 Lake >> Yeah.

[14:12] » and 2160

[14:15] » What's 1? >> That's on Providence Highway.

[14:17] » Oh, all right. What's We'll do it after that one, then.

[14:21] » 716 >> Uh

[14:24] actually, no. Let's do it in front because we had Tom Lane here. We had to

[14:28] do it in front of Walsh. >> 7:04?

[14:30] » Yeah. This public hearing will be continued till 7:04 on August 20th.

[14:37] At 7:04 p.m., there'll be no notifications. It'll be just picked up

[14:41] and continued. So.

[14:44] » All right. >> And

[14:47] uh That's the seller, please.

[14:50] And the next next is 7:05. We have a Marion Street extension residence

[14:57] hearing. So, with that being said,

[15:01] do you have someone from Marion Street here to

[15:04] guide us through?

[15:21] Okay, go ahead. >> Okay.

[15:24] had to any submit the form J in order to get the bond release

[15:28] for the >> Yeah.

[15:32] So, we have that or >> Yeah, we have.

[15:35] » Okay, we're going to need that. What's form J? And we have the certification of

[15:40] monuments. Okay. So,

[15:43] this would release it, but it's also residents here. Anybody from Marion

[15:46] Street here? You live on Marion or this is for the

[15:50] residents of Marion? >> I live on the bottom floor.

[15:53] » Okay. Okay.

[15:55] » I live on William Street. >> Okay, if you want to go up and speak.

[15:58] » I'll go.

[16:06] Good evening. Steve Lynch, 80 William Street. I'm a

[16:11] collector of water in the back of the property.

[16:14] I I have a couple of issues that I think is somewhat important.

[16:18] Under the special conditions, the trees should be 8 ft tall.

[16:23] It's also a that the landscape covenant be approved

[16:28] by the town engineer.

[16:32] And all planting along my property should be

[16:37] planted prior to a building permit being issued.

[16:40] Well, trees were planted before building permit. However, to move forward

[16:47] under the minutes of October

[16:53] 6th, 2022, it states that the trees will be alive and thriving when planted

[16:59] before the planning board releases any money back to Mr. Marino.

[17:06] Well, if the trees were planted before the building permit was issued, they'd

[17:10] be pretty tall by now. Measurement today, they're about 6 ft.

[17:15] Supposed to be eight. So,

[17:19] if they are green giant arborvitaes, they would be approximately

[17:23] I would say about 12 to 15 ft tall with them growing 3 to 5 ft a year.

[17:31] The ones closest to the fence, which are approximately 6 ft tall,

[17:35] those were planted probably March

[17:40] of 2024. Still not 8 ft tall.

[17:45] Again, I question green giant arborvitaes.

[17:48] They were planted three different times. Probably because

[17:53] the first batch died. So,

[17:57] the ones along the fence, again, are not 8 ft tall.

[18:00] So, the last batch was planted this spring.

[18:07] So, I don't think they've been in the ground long enough to say they're alive

[18:10] and thriving, which is part of

[18:13] the uh special conditions of the money being released.

[18:18] That's one issue.

[18:20] Another issue I do have is supposed to be

[18:24] a double row. Uh there's an area in my section

[18:29] that it's not a double row. It's probably

[18:33] 10 to 15 ft wide that might be four or five trees that

[18:37] are missing, maybe. Down on Marion Street, there's a single

[18:41] row. That's also part of the landscape

[18:44] buffer, which is on the plan considered the

[18:48] condo buffer. Then,

[18:53] I don't think it's on the plan.

[18:56] So, again, I question the type of trees, and this gets a little interesting.

[19:02] Along my fence, there's two different types of trees planted.

[19:07] So, if they are one of them is green giant arborvitaes, the other one clearly

[19:11] isn't. You can go up there and take a look. You

[19:14] can see that there's two different types of trees. So, I don't know what they

[19:19] are. So,

[19:22] with this question, I had an app on my phone.

[19:26] It's called Picture This. And then it identifies trees and weeds

[19:31] and bushes and flowers.

[19:34] It's 90 to 95% accurate. Not 100, but

[19:39] 90 to 95. So, on June 23rd, I took a couple of

[19:42] pictures of two of the trees in the back that abutted my property.

[19:47] Those pictures came back as, and bear with me here, a Thuja

[19:53] occidentalis.

[19:56] The other one is a Platycladus orientalis.

[20:02] That's just the botanical name of them. That's what came back from my AI on the

[20:06] on the phone of taking the picture. So, questioning the AI

[20:12] the following day, June 24th, I took pictures of two other trees along

[20:17] the fence. Two separate than the ones I took

[20:20] the day before. Those came back identified as the same

[20:24] two that I just mentioned, the occidentalis and the orientalis.

[20:32] So, again questioning and I went down to Marion Street and took pictures of the

[20:36] two down there. Two of the ones down there came back as

[20:40] two of the ones along the fence, the Thuja occidentalis.

[20:45] After that day, I said, you know, "What are green giants?"

[20:49] So, I went and I drove to Village Nursery up on

[20:53] Route 1A in Norfolk. I got on the street up there and I asked

[20:57] the guy, "Do you have any green giants?" He said, "Yeah, we got some over there."

[21:03] So, he gave me the card off the green giant. However, I snapped a picture of

[21:07] that with the same picture this app that I have.

[21:11] That picture came back as the

[21:16] Thuja plicata, which is a western red cedar

[21:21] Green Giant. This is what he gave me at the Village

[21:25] Nursery. So, again, going back, I'm saying, you

[21:30] know, I mean, just check again.

[21:33] So, I went back on the 28th of June, back up to the Village Green Nursery,

[21:38] and I said, you know, do you have any pictures of

[21:42] any plants of these occidentalis and the orientalis? And he

[21:47] said, yes, right here. I took pictures of those up at Village Green, and it

[21:51] confirmed the app that those were what the nursery said

[21:54] they were, the occidentalis and the orientalis.

[21:59] So, I don't think they're Green Giants.

[22:03] That's I did uh stop into the Planning Board

[22:07] probably about a week or so, and asked if maybe the tree warden could take a

[22:10] look or something like that, and maybe identify these. I didn't hear anything

[22:14] back. So, going by my phone, and the 90 to 95% accurate,

[22:21] I don't think they're Green Giants. So,

[22:26] I don't see the board releasing money back until the landscape plan is

[22:30] completed, double those installed, 8 ft tall, and

[22:35] the type of trees identified. If the ones there are Green Giants, and they

[22:39] come back as what's on the plan, and the plan states uh

[22:43] Thuja standishii and plicata. So, Green Giant is a hybrid

[22:49] of those two things. So, I don't think money should go back

[22:54] unless they are identified to be Green

[22:58] Green Giant, which is on the plan, note number six unit number eight.

[23:04] And that the double row planted as per plan.

[23:14] So, if the board if the board does release

[23:18] the money, it puts the burden on me

[23:22] to go all the condo to go to the new owner because it's for

[23:27] sale, it's under agreement. The landscape covenant

[23:32] says these plants are supposed to be done and what's supposed to be done as

[23:36] per plan. So, that would put the burden on me to

[23:38] go to a new owner who might or might not even know about a landscape covenant.

[23:43] I'm not sure. I would have to go to that owner

[23:46] and under the covenant say, "You are demanded to plant plant these trees

[23:51] by the board." I think that's not fair to the potential

[23:56] new owner. So, I think the developer is responsible

[24:00] for this and why should the burden go on me and the condos?

[24:03] The condos are not in the deed, they're also part of the landscape covenant.

[24:10] So, if uh

[24:13] if it does go back and the developer walks away,

[24:17] gets his money, probably profit,

[24:21] and again, it leaves the burden up to us to force a rule that is part of the

[24:26] special conditions of the site plan approval.

[24:30] I do have pictures on my phone. I couldn't print them cuz I don't know how

[24:33] to do it. But,

[24:35] I do have pictures to prove what I'm stating on my phone from the app Picture

[24:39] This. I want to

[24:42] thank the board for listening to my concerns.

[24:45] And you can certainly

[24:48] take it from there. Thank you. >> Well,

[24:52] so you understand, that's the purpose of residents hearing.

[24:55] It is if there's people find something wrong not done that may not been

[24:59] overlooked. This was started almost 30 years ago.

[25:03] Actually it's by me because I got tired of going to town meeting and someone

[25:05] said, "Well, this is no good." Well, you said that in a residence area. This is

[25:09] where were you with the residence area? So, that's why we do it. And the second

[25:12] thing is we don't release until it's 100%.

[25:17] Okay? Now, one of the problems >> you know the history of the land anyway.

[25:20] 10 years ago basically for the same reason. Mr.

[25:24] Marine cleared cut. So, here I am again looking for the privacy that we lost

[25:29] over 15 years ago. >> Yeah. The only plus is we got rid of

[25:32] that Japanese crap, whatever that was. >> It's still there, but

[25:35] » Don't bring it up. Yeah, it's still there, but let's not bring it up.

[25:38] I don't know >> But, anyway

[25:40] » owner knows anything about the >> one of the issues is and unfortunately

[25:45] town engineer when they go do the inspection, they're used to doing it,

[25:47] but they got to look at everything which include the landscape plan. So, my

[25:51] recommendation is it's not done and that we should send a

[25:57] note to what's his name?

[25:59] » Steve Mayor. >> Whoever was the

[26:02] » There's a letter from him. >> Oh, there is?

[26:04] » Yeah. >> From the tree warden?

[26:05] » Yep. >> Oh, that was good. Oh, really? I didn't

[26:08] see it. >> Yes, yeah. It's what you have in your

[26:10] left hand. >> This one?

[26:12] » Yeah, the one below it. >> The next one?

[26:19] Yeah, he checked Yeah, okay. He checked the new ones that have been planted, but

[26:22] he didn't go through and as >> Yeah.

[26:25] » Mr. Lynch just said, "Yeah, that's great. The new ones he planted up, but

[26:28] he he's missing trees." That's what you are talking about.

[26:31] » Well, I no doubt about it. On the plan there's trees missing. There's supposed

[26:34] to be a double row, there's a single row. So, that's

[26:36] » Yeah, what they need he needs to do is go up there and check off what's been

[26:40] done, what hasn't, and then verify the species.

[26:43] » Yeah, it looks like he has a case. >> Yes, yes. That's basically what I'm

[26:46] looking for is to make sure it's on the plan and that

[26:49] » I have a video if you want to see. >> I

[26:51] No, this this >> This is what gets me is that

[26:54] they should go up and check what's on the plan, not just go

[26:58] Yeah. 6 ft in the pants.

[27:00] » They are like 6 ft tall. >> Excuse me?

[27:03] » They are like 6 ft tall. They are not tall at all.

[27:07] » Oh, you would have >> Yeah, I've I've seen it. Yeah. So.

[27:11] Who's the uh Should we uh >> And I I my personal opinion is they're

[27:14] certainly not driving. >> Tell Steve that he should be going

[27:18] recheck for the plan and check all the species and everything

[27:22] to make sure it's done in accordance with the approval.

[27:25] » And the number of rows. >> Yeah.

[27:27] » Mhm. >> Yeah, there's definitely one row.

[27:29] » Yeah. So, and he should coordinate that with

[27:34] Those drawings. >> Uh the drawings?

[27:38] » Between Saheb and Mr. Lynch here.

[27:44] You got We got your phone or email? >> I can certainly give you my phone

[27:47] number. >> Give it to Sarah so she can

[27:50] call you when they're going to go. Or he can call you as soon as when they're

[27:53] going to meet. >> Sure. Fine.

[27:55] » So, you understand what happened? You haven't finished.

[27:59] » Um just I wanted quickly I explain that.

[28:03] » Mhm? >> Um I know he mentioned that uh we did

[28:06] not pull the permit before The permit was issued after we planted the first

[28:11] batch, but there was no water in that, so that's when it died.

[28:14] » No, I understand that. We can't go back on that. The thing is we want to make

[28:17] sure it's done right. So, I don't care if you plant them at the right time. If

[28:21] they're planted now and they're growing, that's all we care about. So, don't

[28:24] worry about when they're planted, just as long as it's done according to the

[28:27] plan and everything's healthy and growing.

[28:30] » The two things I want to mention they asked us to put 49 trees. We did

[28:34] almost 70 trees in there. >> How many trees?

[28:37] » And around that condo, we couldn't do the

[28:40] second row. Uh but we were did the very close to

[28:44] each other because there was a slope in it. And I did speak to the

[28:48] engineer and I explained him that there is nothing we can offer there so that's

[28:52] » That's fine but you got guys out there hip shooting. You have a plan to go by

[28:55] that's approved. >> Yeah.

[28:56] » All right. When you you know if it was like a balance right you just can't

[28:59] change your size your thing on the fly cuz the

[29:03] builders is I can't do this I want to do that.

[29:05] » No no no it's not because I can't do it because there is a slope.

[29:08] » I understand the slope but that's what the guy planned the trees.

[29:10] » Yes. >> But what should have come in it should

[29:12] have come back to us saying hey we can't do this what can we do?

[29:16] » Okay. >> But you bypass that by just doing it on

[29:18] the fly with the landscaper. >> Okay. But we did bring that to the

[29:24] engineering department just but I understand that I should

[29:26] » you can get this all straightened out by next time okay?

[29:31] You we'll give you this back so you don't lose it.

[29:35] So. And we have naturally we have your email

[29:39] and so on.

[29:41] So. Yes.

[29:46] Well. Yeah yeah

[29:48] what's going to happen is I hope you and you with

[29:52] tree warden out there and you can point this stuff out. Who knows maybe some of

[29:56] the trees are better than what was on the plan which would be great for

[29:58] everybody. But you you're going to be notified in the meeting and if I was you

[30:03] if you can make it that's when you go but he's going to have to come back when

[30:06] it's when the they bless us that it's all done going to plan. Okay.

[30:16] Yeah.

[30:18] Okay all right. All right so let it let us know when if

[30:23] you get it all done we can always put you on on the 20th

[30:26] August okay? >> Okay.

[30:27] » Anyone else? I don't think anyone else in Marion or

[30:32] no okay.

[30:35] Yeah that one over.

[30:40] Good. All right.

[30:42] Next ones. Okay, we have

[30:48] request Ross Common. This is 24 Marion. We'll trade it.

[31:13] » Good evening. >> Hello.

[31:15] » Uh for the record, Eric Guy is a registered professional engineer, Strong

[31:18] Point Engineering, representing Whitman Homes for Ross Common.

[31:22] Uh we are before you for two items tonight. One for a bond reduction and

[31:27] one for a recommendation to the select board for street acceptance uh

[31:32] pertaining to the portions of the project that relate to Emerald Way and

[31:36] Kilronan in Park only. Uh those ways have been completed entirely. We have

[31:43] letters from the engineering department indicating that they are satisfied. Uh

[31:47] we also have letters from the building department. We've received a partial

[31:51] certificate of compliance for everything related to Emerald Way

[31:54] and Kilronan from the Conservation Commission.

[31:57] Um the Neponset Valley Trustees who hold the CR on the project have sent a letter

[32:02] indicating that they are satisfied. And I believe today, later in the day, um a

[32:07] letter came through from the HOA indicating the same thing. Um so the the

[32:12] town engineer's office in a letter on July 15th

[32:17] outlined what we're looking for for a bond reduction with regard to Emerald

[32:22] Way and Kilronan, which is 200,000 and change, and leaves about 210,000 and

[32:28] change in the bond. Um and then, as I mentioned, the second order of business,

[32:32] we are approaching the town uh closing of the warrant, and we would like to get

[32:37] on um for street acceptance for Emerald and Kill Ronan. So, we're hoping for a

[32:41] Well, we're asking for a recommendation from the board to the select board.

[32:46] So, those are really the final points. I'm glad to answer any questions.

[32:49] » All right. So, I'm going to hit the gorilla right

[32:53] as you know where I'm going to hit. What's going on with GG's?

[32:56] » So, yeah, either the applicant or legal counsel

[32:59] can probably help speak to that as well. GG's Way is not under the development

[33:04] control. >> I'm sorry?

[33:08] » It's under the bond figure is under us. I don't know what you guys did, but it's

[33:13] under us. One developer, one bond, whole deal.

[33:17] » Okay. Well, couple of things.

[33:19] » Well, unless unless your attorney is going to tell me how in Massachusetts

[33:22] law you can just slide and sell a subdivision. You can't.

[33:27] » You know what? I'm going to let him tell you.

[33:33] » Uh good evening. Christopher Simpson here for Whitman Homes.

[33:39] So, in terms of GG's Way,

[33:44] you know, we're here essentially on a partial

[33:49] type of um satisfactory completion scenario.

[33:54] » [snorts] >> Um I believe section 316 of the

[33:58] subdivision control bylaw

[34:01] provides for that. You know, GG's Way, whenever the

[34:07] whoever owns the parcel of land associated with I think it's lot 30 or

[34:11] something like that. Whenever they decide to develop it,

[34:15] that's when um the rest of whatever's going to happen

[34:19] with GG's Way will happen. And that's why we're not touching the bond with

[34:22] relate regard to that. That's not what we're seeking.

[34:25] » let's get the brass tacks. Who owns GG Way? You guys?

[34:29] You responsible to finish it, build the bond, build the paddock?

[34:32] » No. >> Well, that's wrong. So, let's stop right

[34:35] there. >> that's wrong.

[34:36] » Don't don't don't don't don't >> Hold on, guys.

[34:38] » I did this four or five years ago. >> Don't

[34:42] You stop, you're out. >> Can we

[34:45] » You have no objection. >> Chris, can you prove to us how you've

[34:48] sold GG's Way you can do that with under the current subdivision law?

[34:52] How you can subrogate your responsibilities?

[34:56] » Well, >> When it was sold, it was approved as one

[35:00] big open space. And the bond figures have for

[35:05] Ross Commons and GG's. And we had a fight long time ago. He didn't want to

[35:10] listen to me about the paddock and bonds. He says, "I don't build it." I

[35:12] don't care. You bought this from the owner, you're stuck with it.

[35:17] » Right. And tonight, for the purposes of our hearing, what we're trying to do is

[35:24] Kilronan Park and Emerald Way. >> Yeah, I understand.

[35:27] » Those are all done. And there's there's lots of

[35:30] » Okay, so when I was doing >> residents on those streets that are

[35:32] looking >> In other words, I should say, "Okay,

[35:33] here you go. You can have that and this will be out there." No.

[35:36] You're going to make it whole. So, why don't you make it whole? Why would Why

[35:40] would I as a town official give up my leverage

[35:44] to get the other part done? You want to take us to court over that? Have fun,

[35:48] because you're going to end up in court over GG's Way and you're going to lose

[35:50] that. So, everybody goes to own GG Way, GG Way. The guy who bought that lot

[35:55] cannot own the road. He can't own That's still part of the subdivision.

[35:59] We have bond figures for that which were never disputed. Didn't like the price of

[36:03] the paddock and the bond, but GG's Way Is that two separate plans we have,

[36:08] Chris? No, one.

[36:11] » However, I mean, under your subdivision control regulations, 3-16

[36:17] says when only a portion of the streets or other improvements

[36:21] » You're going to tell me something I've known for the last 35 years. Don't do

[36:23] that. >> Okay.

[36:24] » Why don't you come across and figure out GG's way.

[36:29] » Well, because there's a lots of residents on those on Keron and Park and

[36:33] Memory Way who want their streets accepted.

[36:34] » But you're telling me you don't own it. >> I I never said anything about

[36:38] » You said you're not responsible for it. I just heard from him that he doesn't

[36:43] own it. >> I didn't say I didn't own it.

[36:46] » So, >> you're telling me I would just heard

[36:48] tonight, unless I'm stupid, I heard that it's up [clears throat] to the guy who

[36:51] bought that lot to finish it. >> In in fact, the person who owned it owns

[36:55] it and has to come back to this planning board for a special covenant before a

[37:00] building permit can be issued. That's in your decision.

[37:04] » Yeah, that's fine, but he doesn't own the road.

[37:07] You do. >> You said you you want to give up

[37:10] leverage and you still have leverage because the owner of lot 30 has to come

[37:14] back to this planning board for a special covenant according to your

[37:18] decision. >> Finish the road.

[37:21] » Well, look, when whoever's going to develop

[37:26] that lot, lot 30,

[37:29] undertakes that development, then GG's Way will need to be completed

[37:36] and you have a bond for that. We're not asking for

[37:39] » understand if we have his bond, but someone else got to do it. That

[37:44] doesn't make sense. >> Well,

[37:46] but Jack, they're not going to finish the road until they someone decides to

[37:50] develop that parcel. >> Chris, since you're so good at

[37:53] subdivision control, how many years do you got on a bond to

[37:56] do a subdivision? Mass General Laws. I mean,

[38:01] » 2 years. >> Well, I haven't seen you guys come back

[38:03] for extensions anytime since that, except maybe once. So, if we're going to

[38:07] cite the laws, we're going to cite the laws.

[38:09] » Okay. But that's

[38:10] » now, you you're really in default. The fact that you never asked for

[38:14] extensions, this board has never given you an extension. That's what you're

[38:16] supposed to do. And if you read it correctly, after the end of 2 years, you

[38:19] haven't done it, we've got to taken in the bond.

[38:22] » With regard to >> Everything.

[38:24] » Well, I mean I I would suggest that at this

[38:28] point you've got absolutely complete of roadways for Kilronan

[38:32] and >> Yeah, and I got it but I'm getting

[38:35] everybody's pushing back on GG's. That's been day one. He pushed back originally.

[38:39] Right? All of a sudden because he got sold a bill of goods by a

[38:43] fast and loose developer. >> And and that could end up in litigation

[38:47] itself, but >> No, it's not going to because per our

[38:51] approval you need to build the paddock and the bond.

[38:55] » I'm saying with the uh

[38:59] where the where the ownership of that originated with

[39:03] and that could end up in litigation, but we need to get through this process

[39:08] and get these two roads accepted, get them to the uh select board.

[39:12] » Okay, so now all of a sudden you're pushing like

[39:17] right now. Right now you got to prove it.

[39:20] Where you've been for the last five, six years?

[39:23] » Well, we've got town meeting coming up, Jack.

[39:26] » No, no, town meeting's every six months as you know.

[39:30] » Well, we they just finished all the stuff on I mean we've got through the

[39:34] process. >> boom, we're done, we want to go.

[39:36] But now no one has ever addressed GG's. GG's is over here. Matter of fact, do we

[39:41] have Do you have a copy of that email that said they don't own it?

[39:45] » I don't think so. >> You told me you had it.

[39:48] » Don't don't control >> Um it would be in your packet.

[39:52] » Well, there's a little bit of a you know, there's a convoluted history to

[39:55] that and >> I know right from the day I was here

[39:57] from day one and and the guys had to deal with a convoluted to begin with.

[40:00] Let them sue me. I don't care, but that was a piece of crap up there what they

[40:03] did, everything, okay? And I've had to deal with it ever since.

[40:07] » Yeah. And I I'm not going to

[40:09] you know, we're not here to disagree with

[40:12] the GG's way has its issues, but all we're trying to do tonight is just

[40:17] get the residents on Kilronan and Emerald Way so to the next stage so that

[40:24] they can get their roadway accepted and move on with life and we're going to

[40:28] have to deal with GG's >> What about the residents on GG's then?

[40:31] We're just hanging them out to dry. I've been here for 9 years

[40:36] and we've gone over this like repeatedly and by doing that we're just leaving

[40:41] those people on GG's. Nothing's going to happen. It's just going to sit keep

[40:45] sitting there like it has and that's not fair to them

[40:47] either. So I understand that the people on the other two roads want to get

[40:52] signed off. I get that but it was approved as one and how can we say we'll

[40:59] take care of you guys but we won't take care of them?

[41:02] » Because your subdivision regulations allow you

[41:06] that's what they they say. >> Okay, do you want me to start reciting

[41:10] the stuff that I just did? Don't go there. We've we've been done that. You

[41:12] haven't got extension yet. Two years have done it. You get maybe one

[41:15] extension so you want to start with that fight and now all of a sudden you're

[41:19] done let's go. No, enough with reciting. I know what it says. We all know what it

[41:23] says. All right, enough with that but we also know what you haven't done. How's

[41:27] that? What you haven't done. But that doesn't count. We just here

[41:31] just to get it done. So the other thing a point is if release it

[41:37] guess what? There's a homeowners association Mr. Ross Collins, correct?

[41:41] » That's correct. >> For the whole thing including GG's?

[41:44] » Um >> It has to be.

[41:46] » Yes. >> It has to be.

[41:47] » There's actually a recorded document that the planning board probably has

[41:52] from early documents that we provided. Lot 30 and open space parcel one is not

[42:00] part of the uh HOA

[42:05] for Emerald Way and Kilronan. >> I don't recall that because I'm sitting

[42:09] here and we wouldn't approve unless you did that with the conservation, but more

[42:12] importantly, if it's part of the HOA, the HOA if this ever falls through,

[42:17] then the town would have to come back to the HOA and make them build it.

[42:20] » to provide the board with that maintenance agreement from the

[42:23] homeowners association relative to lot 30, GG's Way, and open space

[42:29] possible. >> Yeah. All right, so that's that's just a

[42:32] maintenance agreement. >> Yeah.

[42:35] » Okay. >> [snorts]

[42:36] » The maintenance agreement doesn't say GG's Way. It just says OSP 1. Lot 30 is

[42:41] responsible for OSP >> I'm going to let open it up to I assume

[42:45] the residents. Oh, by the way, we weren't going to release it anyway,

[42:47] because as you know, you have to have a residence here and you didn't do that

[42:50] either. >> I mean, our our major objective is to

[42:52] get this

[42:54] » This land and let GG's sit over there for another 30 years.

[42:57] » Well, to get to get the those two roads that are complete to the selectmen so

[43:02] they can go through the next steps. >> Right. Okay, now it's a big rush, but

[43:06] GG's been sitting there with base course for what, last 7 years?

[43:11] » 11. Well, I mean, you know,

[43:13] » While the dirt sat there since >> Wyman has been developing, you know,

[43:17] » I know what they've been doing, but they I never came in for an extension over

[43:20] the last I can't remember the last extension.

[43:23] So, if you want to go by Mass General Laws,

[43:25] we could take your bond right now. And you wouldn't have a shot in hell

[43:29] because it's over the 2 years, you never asked for the extensions.

[43:33] Legally, we'd take it. You want to fight that battle? I don't think so.

[43:37] » Well, again,

[43:40] we're just trying to get this over to the selectmen for the That that's our

[43:43] major objective. >> I'm trying to get it so to protect the

[43:47] town and protect what we approved, protect the residents and everything up

[43:51] there. That's all. But,

[43:55] and I'm certainly you don't want the town to take over the bond because they

[43:58] could chew up $700,000 in just police details in a day up there. So, I mean,

[44:03] yeah. Anyway, um Um,

[44:05] with that being said, I'm going to let the residents, since they're here

[44:08] anyway, so I can hear from them.

[44:19] » Hi, my name is Ariel D'Angelo. I'm at 654 North Street, and I also have

[44:26] letters from my other neighbors who couldn't come tonight, but also wanted

[44:31] to have their opinions on the matter shared, um, signed as well. And we

[44:36] request that the board withholds releasing any additional funds or

[44:39] approving these roads until the significant items that are outstanding

[44:44] on this bond are completed, not limited to the top coat of paving of Gigi's Way

[44:48] and the construction of the barn and the paddock. They were represented as part

[44:51] of the approved development. These improvements were not incidental

[44:54] features, and they were material components of the project and formed

[44:58] part of the expectations established by the approval process. As abutting

[45:02] property owners, we've watched these outstanding commitments remain

[45:05] unresolved for years on the this side of the development, whereas many

[45:09] improvements and developments have been made on the other side of Kilronan and

[45:12] Emerald. We're disappointed that these matters have persisted for such an

[45:16] extended period without being brought to completion. The purpose of the a

[45:20] performance bond is to ensure that the required improvements are completed as

[45:24] approved, and release bond funds before these obligations have been satisfied

[45:29] would undermine the purpose of this bond. We respectfully ask the town to

[45:32] ensure that all the bonded work is completed, inspected, and confirmed to

[45:36] be in full compliance with the approved plans before any bond funds are

[45:40] released. We also request to be notified of any meetings or decisions

[45:45] to continue this on, um, as appropriate. Um,

[45:50] thank you very much.

[45:53] » Anyone else who the audience J- uh, yeah, G- she's no

[45:57] one's on J's Ross Common. All right. Um,

[46:02] now, let me just read something that will clarify where we were going. It was

[46:06] a letter May 18th from Strong Point. What it said is, "The remainder of the

[46:10] bond includes $88,000 for work on GG's Way. That portion of the project is

[46:15] owned and by and under control of others." So, therefore, Strong Point has

[46:21] indicated this is owned by someone else. So.

[46:24] Um >> Can I ask you a question? What's the

[46:27] date on that letter? >> May 18th.

[46:29] » Yeah, you have the old dated letter. That letter was since revised and sent

[46:33] back to the board. So, you should be reading from a letter dated June 30th

[46:36] that came from my office. And quoting it correctly. Thank you.

[46:40] » Oh, so we we pulled that one back cuz of this. Okay, fine.

[46:45] » But was that a mistake? Was that misworded?

[46:48] » It was misworded in my mind. >> Misworded?

[46:51] God, misworded. >> It's not that funny.

[46:55] » No, I've heard misworded. I've also heard scrivener's error enough Yeah, and

[46:58] I think it's funny the fact that all of a sudden someone says, "No."

[47:02] But how was it corrected? >> In the letter that you sent me.

[47:06] » Yeah, but how was How was it given to you corrected?

[47:09] » What's that? >> How was it given to you today?

[47:10] » I had a conversation with my client and I got a better I corrected my

[47:14] misunderstanding. >> Let me see.

[47:25] Does it say anything?

[47:32] » Took it out. It took that paragraph

[47:35] » No. All right. So, your letter We got your

[47:38] letter June 30th, you said, and you corrected it.

[47:44] All right. Um

[47:46] I wouldn't say it corrected cuz you just took the whole thing out. So, that's not

[47:49] necessarily a correction. >> Because it's not what was said.

[47:51] » Yeah, but usually people when they correct something they said this was

[47:54] incorrectly You just pulled it out. So, I'm not going to argue

[47:59] semantics on this. Um

[48:04] We have the problem of GG's, and to accept the road now is we are losing our

[48:10] what do you call it? Ability to get this done correctly and

[48:17] quickly. So,

[48:21] » So, Jack, I I understand >> Well, here's the other thing, you're not

[48:24] getting the Even if we were like nice guys, you you can't get it on the wire

[48:27] anyway, it's too late.

[48:30] » I don't believe that's true. >> I don't think so.

[48:33] » I think if you guys >> You have to have a residence hearing.

[48:37] » That can happen that

[48:40] » That can happen when? >> That can happen after your If you folks

[48:44] say these two roads are >> No. No.

[48:48] » So, they had a residence hearing like the night before town meeting. Uh

[48:53] the last >> Really?

[48:54] » I don't think that's ever happened. >> I think they did. That's what we heard.

[48:58] from staff, yeah. >> How long have I been sitting here?

[49:00] » You know that >> Since '92. I did and we've done it and I

[49:04] was the one that brought it up. The residence hearing, what happens is it

[49:06] goes out to the notice of all residents on the road. They're invited here when

[49:11] the when they request a bond release and they come in just like we had on Marion

[49:15] Way right before and they get to have any issues. And if there's no issues,

[49:20] then we release the bond, but you have to send out the letter

[49:24] to all the abutters on the street to say, "Hey, we're having this and if you

[49:28] got any questions or your comments or your

[49:31] problems, come to this." So, the next meeting isn't till August 20th.

[49:39] » It's within your power and jurisdiction to say we've got

[49:44] everything from the town departments saying that this is complete. We can

[49:48] make a recommendation that the selectmen take it up.

[49:51] The residence hearing still occur as long as it's before town meeting and the

[49:56] selectmen are able to hear what the town what the residents have to

[50:01] say, it can move forward. I mean, that's what we would be asking for.

[50:05] » You're asking a lot. You're asking special favors for something like this

[50:09] and it doesn't deserve special favors. And the reason you can't do it like that

[50:13] is if it goes on the warrant and there's problems at the residents hearing

[50:17] we have to release the bond. You want to you know that, I assume you do.

[50:21] » But you're not going to release it until after the residents hearing.

[50:25] » Yeah, that's the same night.

[50:31] » The bond The bond release occurs during the

[50:33] residents hearing. >> Yep.

[50:34] » So what happens is nobody complains pitches, boom, done.

[50:39] We release the bond at that point and off you go. It's out of our hands, we

[50:43] send it off to the selectmen. So what you're saying can't happen

[50:46] because even if they complain or have something before the selectmen before

[50:50] the town meeting, bond's already gone. So nobody has the ability other than the

[50:54] town to fix the road or whatever needs to be fixed and they ain't going to do

[50:58] it and it's going to be a big problem.

[51:02] So you ain't making the fall anyway. But now all of a sudden we got to

[51:07] you know, make special cut throughs and this and that because now we're up

[51:11] against whatever time frame you guys say you have. No.

[51:15] We go by what we've done forever. It's why the purpose of residents hearing.

[51:19] That way you don't get into a snit. >> Yeah, no, we we definitely don't want to

[51:24] circumvent the residents hearing. We think that should We know that has to

[51:27] happen. >> And after the residents hearing, we

[51:30] release the bond. >> Right, but it could be recommend it

[51:34] could be brought so that it can go and get on the

[51:38] warrant. >> No, because I go back when you're on the

[51:41] board, too. We used to have it don't put anything on and then Snuff would never

[51:44] let you take anything off. So we don't put anything on just in case.

[51:49] » Well, if if the residents hearing when it blows

[51:52] up >> you know what? When it blows up, it

[51:54] isn't you and your client, it's this board that looks stupid. Why did you do

[51:58] that? Well, we wanted to help. No. Why don't we do it per the way it's

[52:04] always done? Now, once again, wait till 11th hour and say, "Oh, let's take this

[52:08] shortcut." Well, it should have thought about this probably

[52:12] a year ago rather than an hour ago. So, they ain't getting on the warrant cuz

[52:17] you haven't had the residents hearing. >> Yeah, I'm

[52:21] it could be done the other way, but if you don't

[52:24] » It could be? >> Yeah.

[52:25] » Once again, we have the residents hearing. Then we release the bond. It

[52:29] can't be put on the warrant until the bond is released.

[52:35] Because it becomes now in the selectmen. And the selectmen don't have to take it.

[52:38] They always do, but they don't have to take it. So, once we declare

[52:42] residents are happy, everybody's happy, you don't have to the bond's done.

[52:47] It's out of this place and it's off to never land and the selectmen

[52:52] to take it out. >> it's certainly within your power to say

[52:55] you're not going to recommend it because you're not going to recommend it until

[52:58] the residents hearing happen, but I do believe you could

[53:02] do it the way that we're requesting. >> If you are asking us as a board to do

[53:06] something, once again, I'll say as I said many times other people, you want

[53:10] us to be part of the problem and solve it, but we don't

[53:13] we don't get any of the riches from that, so to speak.

[53:16] You want us to do something out of the way just to help you.

[53:20] What what is the benefit for this town, for us, for the residents? None.

[53:25] » Well, I think there's a benefit to the people who live on those streets cuz

[53:28] they want to have their streets become public ways.

[53:32] » They're already What What's going to change once it

[53:35] becomes accepted? Anything? >> Yes.

[53:38] » What? >> Uh

[53:40] they're going to have public town services that

[53:44] » They already have town services. >> But they're going to be

[53:47] » they got they got the mail wherever they put it,

[53:50] whatever the mail that has nothing to do with us, but they plowed. That's one of

[53:52] the things I've never liked about the town. They'll plow subdivision. That's

[53:55] why they languished for 100 years. Who's plowed Ross Commons all these years? It

[54:00] was certainly not you guys. >> Yeah. Well, it becomes legit, and I

[54:03] think that's what people who live on a road way want that.

[54:08] So, anyway, but so

[54:14] » My opinion is I'm just going to until you guys come up with a plan on

[54:18] how you're going to solve this GG's with this, I'm not I'm my vote is

[54:21] [clears throat] no release at all.

[54:26] » Well, again, you guys have to

[54:29] » I'm only one of You got four members here, they can decide. I'm only speaking

[54:32] for myself. >> Right. I mean,

[54:35] the the board does have the discretion under

[54:39] um I mean, we have two separate things

[54:42] here, right? One is recommending that this go to the next stage with the

[54:47] selectmen, okay?

[54:50] I believe that's something that should happen so that it can at least get on

[54:54] the warrant if it >> Sure. Ma'am, ma'am.

[54:58] So, we're not at It's on a roundabout.

[55:00] » So, that at least has the opportunity to get on on the warrant.

[55:04] Um in terms of the release of the bond, um I can understand that you don't want

[55:11] to do that. Now, again, we're only talking about the bond for

[55:16] Coronan and Emerald, >> Okay.

[55:19] » leaving GG's way there. >> All right.

[55:21] » But that you're going to have wait until >> about this?

[55:25] We could always say that Ross Commons is all set, but we don't reduce the bond.

[55:32] » I mean, I suppose that's within your purview in it it

[55:36] for the simple fact that you said hey you've already blown the two years so I

[55:41] mean you guys if you wanted to you could guys could go after the bond so you I

[55:44] think that's within your purview [snorts] if you wanted to.

[55:47] » Did you hear what I just said? You're so

[55:50] pushing getting the road accepted fine. So we just hold the bond at that amount

[55:56] or any amount. What's recommended by town engineering isn't

[55:59] by law or whatever we can make our own decision. We can say fine.

[56:04] We we leave reduce by a buck and then go.

[56:08] So If if you

[56:11] you guys are so adamant on getting it accepted fine. But

[56:17] as long as I'm looking to have the big hammer that gets GG's done. So

[56:22] I reduce it by a dollar and send it on to the selectmen.

[56:28] » I don't feel comfortable moving it at all.

[56:30] » But the other problem you still have is you going

[56:33] We still got their money. And well their their insurance but the

[56:37] other thing is they're not going to make the residents whole and cape no matter

[56:40] what.

[56:43] It would have had to been done tonight. >> It's the same and I'm sorry Chris. It's

[56:47] the same discussion. I mean we've had the discussion over and over

[56:52] and you come back and nothing's changed. So that's where I'm puzzled like

[56:58] something's got to give. We can't just throw those people

[57:01] I mean that's our responsibility is we approved the subdivision

[57:07] in my eyes I understand you can cite all the lines and everything in there but we

[57:11] approved something in my in my eyes my job is to protect neighbors.

[57:16] And by approving part of it

[57:20] we're not protecting the neighbors cuz those people who live in GG and those

[57:24] people who are direct abutters to GG or impacted by GG

[57:28] they're going to be living in limbo like this. I don't see any change happening

[57:33] based on what I've seen from sitting in this seat.

[57:36] And that's why I don't feel comfortable moving it

[57:40] anywhere at all. I want to see something happen for those

[57:44] people. It's not it's just not fair to them.

[57:47] » Fair enough. I'm not going to disagree that

[57:50] there's not going to be any change until someone actually develops that parcel

[57:54] 30. That's going to be the trigger. I know that there's some sale that's

[57:59] contemplated on that currently, but you still have the criteria that's in

[58:07] this um subdivision control law that allows

[58:10] you to do what we're asking for. And I think you have all the

[58:14] documentation showing that everything is done on these roads.

[58:18] So, that's that's where we're coming from on this.

[58:24] You know. >> Well, we have whatever you say, but we

[58:27] also have the big gorilla over here, the 2 years and everything else. And you

[58:30] just said something that I find very interesting is it's not going to be

[58:33] developed till someone buys it. >> Uh I

[58:37] » 20 years, 20 years? >> I'm not going to I'm not going to stand

[58:39] up here and tell you something that isn't true. I mean, that's the way

[58:42] » be done It could be done tomorrow. You agree?

[58:48] » You're talking in the theory. I mean, anything can happen in theory, right?

[58:52] » Tomorrow you could have a paving machine up there, put the sidewalks in, knock

[58:55] down the big pile of dirt, build the paddock, build the bond. It could be

[58:59] done. >> In theory.

[59:01] » reason it's not being done?

[59:05] It all comes down to >> Well, I mean, when someone develops that

[59:08] parcel, there's going to be funds for doing all that stuff.

[59:12] » No, there's no funds. We don't When someone builds applies for building

[59:16] permit, it has nothing to do with us. We do the roads.

[59:19] » Well, I mean, you know, it is

[59:21] » We have no control over who builds what they build there. They can build any any

[59:25] single family residence they want. We don't control that.

[59:27] » And that's why you guys have the bond. >> For GG's way and the accessory stuff,

[59:32] which includes the paddock and the bond. That's what we want done.

[59:36] I don't I'm not sitting here waiting for somebody to decide uh I'm going to build

[59:39] it and then if I hear one more time, "Oh, you wrecked the road." I don't

[59:42] care. >> Mhm.

[59:44] » Fix the road if you wreck it, but it's not up to us to let this thing languish.

[59:50] Well, so the only reason why I here tonight

[59:54] » I've heard a couple different >> reasons, but the bigger reason is

[59:57] you're just waiting for someone to develop it.

[59:59] » That doesn't fold for subdivision control.

[1:00:02] There's nothing in there about developing individual parcels on a

[1:00:07] subdivision. >> I'm just telling you that

[1:00:10] my understanding of the reality of the finances of the situation, Jack,

[1:00:14] [snorts] and >> Yeah, and guess what? If you don't have

[1:00:16] the finances, don't do it. It's a business. Now, am I supposed to be here

[1:00:20] as a [clears throat] town being part of your financial package to help, but then

[1:00:25] they go down to the bank with all the money and we just sit here and get zero.

[1:00:28] We're not partners in this. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, ultimately

[1:00:31] what happened with GG's was

[1:00:37] uh something that SR2 sort of

[1:00:41] uh sprung, if you will. I mean, they sort of sprung what happened there on my

[1:00:46] guys and we'd like to get through this, Jack.

[1:00:49] » Well, I don't know how it could >> And then we can deal with

[1:00:53] » Chris, I don't know how it could have been sprung because this was already

[1:00:56] approved and signed >> Back in years ago.

[1:00:59] » Yeah, no, I understand. I was here for that. And it got approved. We had a

[1:01:02] whole plan including the paddock and this and that. It was approved and the

[1:01:06] the decision went to SR2 Ventures. >> Yeah.

[1:01:10] » And your client bought it from them. So, this was a done deal. Everything that

[1:01:13] we're talking about today, that paddock and and bond didn't just drop out of the

[1:01:17] sky. That's always been there. >> I'm not disputing that, Jack.

[1:01:21] » Yeah, you just had people playing the shell game who just you bought it from.

[1:01:27] » That's >> And that was known way back, too, cuz we

[1:01:29] had a rule go around back then, too. >> But we would like to get through this

[1:01:34] and then perhaps there could be litigation

[1:01:38] dealing with what happened at GG's. And that would be

[1:01:43] I think helpful to everyone. >> So you you're thinking

[1:01:46] we get through this and then we have then we have litigation on GG's?

[1:01:49] » No. >> We have litigation on

[1:01:52] » Whitman. >> Yeah, but we have no big hammer

[1:01:56] and it >> Well, you still have the bond.

[1:01:59] » All right. Well, I've said my piece. I said we reduce the buy a bond, but

[1:02:03] you're still not going to make the date, Kate.

[1:02:05] » I said my piece. >> Okay.

[1:02:08] » Uh I wasn't here for that for that part of it, but I you know, I would agree

[1:02:11] with that with Jack and I mean, we're we're here for the residents and if

[1:02:16] it's not being, you know, from what I can see, it had it's just

[1:02:19] sitting there. It's been sitting there for so long and no one's doing anything

[1:02:22] about it. So, I mean, um I'm not in favor of not releasing any

[1:02:26] of that. >> Well,

[1:02:28] again, we're here on Corrine and Emerald.

[1:02:31] » Yeah. >> That is our request.

[1:02:34] » Yeah. >> We're not here on GG's way. We're here

[1:02:37] on a partial. We've got all the evidence that shows

[1:02:42] that these roads are complete. They're satisfactory to engineering. Everyone is

[1:02:47] okay with them within the divisions in the in the

[1:02:51] divisions of the town. That's what we're here for.

[1:02:54] » And if I remember right, I'm read not read, but my memory it says planning

[1:02:58] board may. It didn't say we had to. It doesn't say shall. The planning board

[1:03:03] may. That gives us an option. Right?

[1:03:09] So, if it said we shall, it would be a whole different thing, but we may reduce

[1:03:13] it. And you always say it was a good idea,

[1:03:16] but John?

[1:03:19] » I'm totally against any reduction in the

[1:03:23] bond. I also don't see any plans here showing where

[1:03:28] GG not GG Emerald Way and Kilronan are. So

[1:03:34] » John, is your concern that >> before I was on the [snorts] board.

[1:03:39] So is the plan showing where the streets are that is useful?

[1:03:43] » Are you Is your concern that GG's is integral to the uh

[1:03:48] » To some degree. >> traffic pattern?

[1:03:50] » Okay. >> I can help with that.

[1:03:51] » Thank you. >> Which is a fair question.

[1:03:53] » question, absolutely. This is Emerald Way through here.

[1:03:56] Actually from this point forward this is >> where's the exterior street that this

[1:04:00] all links to or whatever? >> Kilronan is here. GG's is all the way

[1:04:03] over here. It has nothing to do with Emerald and Kilronan. It's completely

[1:04:07] separate. >> Well, what do Kilronan and Emerald

[1:04:10] connect to? >> What do They go back out through I think

[1:04:14] it's >> called Homestead Estates to Fisher

[1:04:16] Street. >> Fisher Street, okay.

[1:04:18] » That's right. >> Oh, what is

[1:04:20] » GG connects to North. >> Okay.

[1:04:22] » And when he says nothing to do with it, he means just in terms of traffic

[1:04:25] » As far as functionality and physically how they tie together, that's what I

[1:04:28] meant. >> Okay, so

[1:04:30] nothing on that plan right now has been accepted, is that correct streetwise?

[1:04:34] » No, nothing to do with this subdivision has been accepted. Although correct me

[1:04:38] if I'm wrong, I believe Homestead Estates roadways have been

[1:04:41] accepted, is that correct? >> Yeah.

[1:04:44] » That is correct. >> Yeah, so the This is technically the

[1:04:47] first half if you will of Emerald Way that was developed by

[1:04:51] others. This is the Ross Calvin subdivision that it extends

[1:04:55] » Okay, so it's been extended to the beginning of your development that side.

[1:04:58] » of Emerald Way, that's right. >> So those there

[1:05:02] that's there. Where's this lot 30?

[1:05:06] » Lot 30 is actually previous to here. >> go through to

[1:05:09] » It's accessed off of GG's. >> GG's. Okay.

[1:05:12] » So, that's as my client mentioned, there is a

[1:05:16] requirement a separate covenant to be developed

[1:05:18] before a building permit can be pulled for lot 30.

[1:05:21] » It was probably 15 years ago.

[1:05:26] All the homes have been constructed on Coronen

[1:05:29] and Emerald. >> Uh everything on Coronen and Emerald has

[1:05:32] been constructed, uh completed. In fact, we provided a letter from the building

[1:05:36] inspector indicating that he has no issues and everything is full set.

[1:05:40] » So, that's that's fine. That's fine. That's fine.

[1:05:43] » Thank you. >> Yes.

[1:05:45] » When was Ross common approved?

[1:05:48] » As far as I know, this plan is signed 7 14 16.

[1:05:55] » So, 10 years. >> 10 years. Yep, almost.

[1:05:59] » And today's date? >> Close to the day.

[1:06:00] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:06:01] » And Whitman got involved how many years ago?

[1:06:06] » Yeah. >> Five.

[1:06:08] » June 3rd, 2016 is when the planning board decision was made.

[1:06:14] » I'm sorry, it's too long. Like something's got to give.

[1:06:19] And I feel if we give any acceptance of anything,

[1:06:25] it's just going to continue the way it has. And I don't understand why us doing

[1:06:29] anything has anything to do with you guys moving forward with litigation

[1:06:33] against the party involved that's holding you

[1:06:36] back. So, I think that's got I mean, if that's

[1:06:40] what you told me about, then that's what you got to do. You don't rely on us. We

[1:06:44] haven't done anything wrong. You got to get it done.

[1:06:49] » All right. I want to move this along, meaning can you bring the whoever's on

[1:06:53] GG's here with you guys and we can have at it with them? [clears throat]

[1:06:58] » Well, yes, but we'll see him in court first, but uh is it possible to hold

[1:07:02] that residents meeting at the next planning board meeting?

[1:07:05] » No, not till we get this resolved. I want to see the guy. I want some

[1:07:09] commitments. I want to see how it's going to

[1:07:11] between you and him, how it's going to play. And if it goes well, yeah, fine,

[1:07:14] we'll move it along. But still, until he's here, you tell me you don't control

[1:07:18] everything. You know, I'm not going to get into the

[1:07:21] semantics of letters, but if there's someone else involved, I want to see his

[1:07:24] little butt in front of me telling me why he can't do something, what he's

[1:07:28] doing, and how he owns this and everything else. Do it. Now, I assume

[1:07:32] that if he owns it, did you guys sell that road to him?

[1:07:37] » We're talking about the lot. >> Yeah, what's that got to do with the

[1:07:40] road, though? >> Okay.

[1:07:43] So >> I I've heard that supposedly one of the

[1:07:48] things about that lot is if you buy the [clears throat]

[1:07:50] » I know the history of it. I know one of the things when it first sold, it was

[1:07:53] like he wanted a lesser price, so he was

[1:07:56] going to pave it himself, right? Yeah, that was a deal. I mean, you know,

[1:08:01] this is small little town, everybody knows. But the the paddock and the and

[1:08:04] the Let's see, a landscape or something. He's had it forever? No, is this the

[1:08:08] original owner? >> Yes, Mr. Viano

[1:08:12] deeded it to himself and then deeded it to a trust and then from the trust he

[1:08:15] deeded it to the landscape company and >> Yeah, okay, same guy.

[1:08:19] All right. So, if you get his butt in here, and we can get this sorted out so

[1:08:23] that he understands, all right? And

[1:08:27] going to help you, too. Because if your hands are tied,

[1:08:31] which I kind of sounds like they are, come next time. Get him in here on the

[1:08:35] 20th. >> Okay.

[1:08:37] » And we'll take it from there.

[1:08:41] » So, as I understand it,

[1:08:45] this board's saying no to the partial that we're asking for.

[1:08:51] » Until we get this done. So, I shouldn't do this, but I'm

[1:08:56] kick myself later is tell me this has nothing to do with when

[1:08:59] we release something. >> I I

[1:09:02] » So, you could come in September. You could come the day as of the

[1:09:05] the What do you call it? Town meeting and get it released. Your bond's done.

[1:09:12] There is no time frame. If you come and it says it's done,

[1:09:17] you present it to us and there's nothing for us to hold, we release it. So, it

[1:09:21] doesn't matter whether it's August,

[1:09:24] November, whatever. Right.

[1:09:28] » And in terms of

[1:09:31] moving the two completed roads along to the Board of Selectmen,

[1:09:37] the this board is saying no to that. Is that

[1:09:41] right? >> Right, for now.

[1:09:43] » Okay. >> But, you do everything, we get the guy

[1:09:45] from GG's, get this straightened out, and then you come back and we have we're

[1:09:48] we're At least I'm happy with what's going to the results are.

[1:09:52] And you want to do another do a residence here, and we can release it

[1:09:54] then. Now, it's not going to make the fall.

[1:09:57] It'll probably make the spring, but what difference does it make? You're out.

[1:10:04] » But, I Let me I I still

[1:10:07] I think it's unfa- >> Town meeting isn't going to change

[1:10:09] what's going to happen here anyway, no matter what.

[1:10:12] Town meeting doesn't All they do is accept the road as the town's.

[1:10:15] » Agreed. >> But, once we release it, and we've never

[1:10:18] had issues. We've always had Everybody wants to time it.

[1:10:22] But, I've gone through years where you can't do it in the spring cuz you can't

[1:10:25] you you got to screw up your fall in enough time, and then we can't do it in

[1:10:27] the fall because I'm not around in the summer, blah blah blah. It's a matter of

[1:10:30] timing. The law is you present it to us, Chris.

[1:10:34] You present it to us in November, everything's done, residents are happy,

[1:10:37] we have no reason to hold it. And you go on the next town meeting.

[1:10:45] » Are you amenable to if I get this person in front of you

[1:10:49] and he takes ownership of the road >> Can't.

[1:10:52] » and takes >> How's he going to

[1:10:54] » and gives you a new bond? >> He can't He can't do it cuz it's all

[1:10:57] under one subdivision. Can't Can't sell pieces of subdivisions.

[1:11:02] So you can't do it. It's all approved under one.

[1:11:04] » But what if it wasn't a simple subdivision modification could have been

[1:11:07] done in two? >> No, because it's all part of it's all

[1:11:11] tied into the open space. It's one open space plan. You can't pull it out.

[1:11:20] I don't Tell me I'm missing something. What's

[1:11:22] the big deal about >> immediately

[1:11:24] » You can't do [laughter] it like >> No.

[1:11:26] » No. >> What's the

[1:11:28] you know there >> This That's over here. This is over

[1:11:30] here. >> Yeah.

[1:11:32] » I don't Don't Don't get them all jiggled together because then that

[1:11:36] starts making things problematic for everybody.

[1:11:40] » Like I said >> I don't see what the point of bringing

[1:11:42] that person in is going to do. >> Well, I want to see see what he says cuz

[1:11:46] we hear they don't have control this and that. So we want to get something from

[1:11:49] him in time frames and so on. And then if he's going to lie it down

[1:11:54] then >> Just one up. We still have money. Do you

[1:11:57] know what I mean? >> Yeah, no. I still don't see how it's

[1:12:01] going to work. >> want it Okay.

[1:12:02] What I'm doing is just like in business. Just get someone in here cuz we got

[1:12:05] people throwing rocks at each other. But the guy throwing the rocks is sitting

[1:12:08] behind a wall. We don't even know who he is. So we want him here.

[1:12:13] » [clears throat] >> So are we putting this over to the next

[1:12:17] meeting? Get the guy from GG's here.

[1:12:21] Okay. And we get something out of him and it

[1:12:23] goes, then you go for a residence hearing for that for the next time in

[1:12:27] September. And everything's hunky-dory and we get

[1:12:30] something with GG's then yeah, it's released and it goes on to

[1:12:35] the spring.

[1:12:37] You don't care when it goes, fall, spring. See?

[1:12:41] » No, not if the boundary reduces.

[1:12:46] » Reduces, yeah. Thank you for the repartee.

[1:12:52] All right. Goodnight, guys. >> Goodnight.

[1:12:54] » Goodnight. God >> you're getting gray, Chris, with that

[1:12:56] beard. >> What is that?

[1:12:57] » You were a little gray the last time.

[1:13:01] » Um >> Thank you for your

[1:13:04] Oh. >> I want to thank you.

[1:13:08] The bond figure for the paddock and things that still what it was back 10

[1:13:12] years ago. They got to get indexed it up. It should be leased though.

[1:13:16] » Yeah. >> It was 102 back then. Things have

[1:13:18] changed a lot. >> Yeah.

[1:13:19] » Yeah, just a little bit. >> It's still a little.

[1:13:20] » Yeah, it's like a house What was a house in Walpole back then?

[1:13:23] » Who makes those? >> Hm?

[1:13:25] » Who makes those silly stamps now? >> Yeah.

[1:13:27] » Well, Maggie didn't want to make them at that time.

[1:13:29] » I don't know what they were like. You just

[1:13:31] » We went round and round on them. >> So, she cuz it's other business we don't

[1:13:35] continue it? >> Hm?

[1:13:37] » It's other business so we don't continue.

[1:13:38] » see if they get their act together for and bring them back, we ask to come in.

[1:13:43] » Got you. >> All right. See you Tuesday night.

[1:13:47] » All right.

[1:13:49] » Next one is Hope this one goes easy. Quail Run, do we have a bond figure?

[1:14:03] Okay, we have a request from

[1:14:10] Do you guys go under? You go You go under your name?

[1:14:13] » Yeah, from the DeMartino. >> DeMartino, and you requested a a bond

[1:14:16] figure for Quail Run.

[1:14:18] » Yes. >> And

[1:14:22] and Chris has come back with 680,000.

[1:14:27] So, can you understand the process? We set it here, you come back the next

[1:14:30] meeting with the bond, but what you're going to

[1:14:33] do beforehand is Are you going to do it insurance

[1:14:37] » Mhm. >> cash

[1:14:39] » Insurance. >> or cash?

[1:14:42] Eric put enough over the street. All right, when you come back, it has to

[1:14:48] bring it to Sarah. >> Yeah, special bond paper?

[1:14:51] » Uh no, it's a standard bond. It's in the back of the book.

[1:14:54] » Okay. >> All right. But, when she gets it, she's

[1:14:57] going to send it down to finance.

[1:15:00] » Mhm. >> And they got to look up under the A&M

[1:15:02] best rating for uh >> Make sure it's

[1:15:05] » insurance. You want to make sure don't bring it that night cuz we can't do

[1:15:08] anything because we have to get approval.

[1:15:10] » going to bring it probably next week. Okay.

[1:15:15] So, let me You know what I'm saying? >> Okay.

[1:15:18] » All right, we have a a figure of 680,000 from

[1:15:22] Who did this? Was it Chris? >> Or Joe.

[1:15:24] » Yeah. >> Anybody have any questions? Tom, we all

[1:15:27] know what Quail Run is, right? Washington Street.

[1:15:30] » Oh, yeah. >> So, that's Smitty's house.

[1:15:33] » Yep.

[1:15:36] » It's the only way we know where it is. All right, I'll make a motion to set it

[1:15:41] for the 6

[1:15:45] I'm missing my folks. 680,000. >> Second.

[1:15:49] » Second from Bruce. All those in favor? >> Aye.

[1:15:52] » It was unanimous. Okay. So, bring it in tomorrow, come through, and

[1:15:56] away you go. >> Thank you.

[1:16:01] » All right. >> Thank you.

[1:16:05] » We got A&R for 12 Kincaid Street.

[1:16:11] Elm Street.

[1:16:23] » Good evening. Bailey from Mackie and Mackie for 655 Elm Street. Um

[1:16:28] » Yeah. >> We're requesting the board endorse our

[1:16:31] A&R plan.

[1:16:34] Um it's one lot. We want to divide it into two.

[1:16:41] There's a house that's Well, they're building a house, so what we did was we

[1:16:44] met with Jim Crowley. I'm sorry, I'll let you get

[1:16:47] » Probably a big table of us. >> Okay.

[1:16:57] Anybody have any comments I got to see? >> I've seen it.

[1:17:02] » Okay.

[1:17:07] » Oh, there's a house straight up. Okay.

[1:17:10] » I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said, Lorraine.

[1:17:11] » Yeah. >> So, we met with Jim Crowley because this

[1:17:15] lot we want to divide it into two, lot one and lot two. It's on the plan.

[1:17:20] There's frontage in Medfield, but there's no

[1:17:24] frontage in Walpole. But, the proposed house is going to be

[1:17:28] built in Walpole. So, we're using the frontage in Medfield

[1:17:34] to build the house in Walpole, and we're requesting the board sign the A&R plan.

[1:17:39] Medfield has already signed it during a

[1:17:43] same request that we're asking them. We made the frontages

[1:17:49] in Medfield conform to Walpole's zoning bylaws.

[1:17:53] The standards for a buildable lot.

[1:18:00] » There's an existing house on what is to become lot two.

[1:18:05] Is that correct? >> Yeah, there's a garage and a barn.

[1:18:10] » Oh, garage. >> Just the garage and the barn, that's

[1:18:13] right. >> one button.

[1:18:13] » Right now. >> It exists Yes, yep.

[1:18:23] » Uh what's the zoning?

[1:18:32] » Is there anywhere about that plan I'm putting a house in that area?

[1:18:37] » Um we are Do you see um it's on the plan. It's

[1:18:44] that rectangular shape

[1:18:49] object that's that that's going on the Walpole lot lot one.

[1:18:57] Do you see it? >> No.

[1:18:59] » I don't see it either. >> Can you Do you see it?

[1:19:01] » I'm missing it or something. >> Can I just see the garage and the barn?

[1:19:04] That's all I see for >> It doesn't matter what it

[1:19:07] » I don't see what they don't >> They shouldn't The only thing they

[1:19:09] should be pointing to is existing structures.

[1:19:12] » No, these are all existing structures. >> you don't have that on here?

[1:19:16] Jack has it. Oh, so this It's right here. Why don't

[1:19:21] » It doesn't matter. We're only approving that.

[1:19:23] » Yeah. That's the

[1:19:24] » That's the existing one. >> My existing

[1:19:26] » Oh, so that's going to be what's going to be built here.

[1:19:28] » Okay. Right.

[1:19:32] » Jack's right. I was just curious on where the whereabouts of the house was

[1:19:34] going. So.

[1:19:38] » So, the four the barn, the garage, the house, the

[1:19:42] pool house, those are all existing today.

[1:19:47] » No, I don't think there's any um

[1:19:51] I don't think there's any house on uh lot

[1:19:55] one right now. That's the proposed >> No, there is.

[1:19:59] » There is a house on lot >> Yeah, what you've got right now is the

[1:20:03] barn and the garage. I know the property well, but they they built the new house

[1:20:08] onto the left side on one and the barn and garage have been there.

[1:20:12] » Yeah, you're right. I have it on this plan. I have the Yeah, there is an

[1:20:16] existing house.

[1:20:29] » Go back where it comes to.

[1:20:45] » Must be you you had question or comment? Come on up.

[1:20:53] » So like it's my parents land. Um

[1:20:58] So the all all of the other structures that are currently there, the idea is to

[1:21:02] raise the barn and put a house where that barn is right now.

[1:21:07] That existing garage probably will go at some point, but we need some sort of

[1:21:12] space right now, so that's would be in the front yard for

[1:21:16] time being.

[1:21:21] » Okay. >> Okay, so both frontages

[1:21:26] Oh, I see they're in the back.

[1:21:43] » Do you have any questions? >> What's your address?

[1:21:46] » I think it's 655 I think. >> But their address is a weird it's like

[1:21:50] close to the the numbers are like all screwed up.

[1:21:52] » I'm off of there. >> Yeah, I live not.

[1:21:55] Yeah, it's all right. 655 is >> Some people who live on Elm Street are a

[1:21:58] little strange anyways. >> [laughter]

[1:22:02] » Well, just because Deliverance was shot in my backyard.

[1:22:05] Jesus. I know I thought you looked familiar

[1:22:09] when I first got here. Take my tooth out of hand.

[1:22:14] So that makes sense it's just going to be where the barn is.

[1:22:22] » He's taking it down that's where the house is going.

[1:22:24] » Oh, okay. This is interesting. >> Yeah.

[1:22:27] » They knock pools and stuff. down. That's who those drills bought.

[1:22:32] Okay, that is the same.

[1:22:40] Okay. You also get >> Yes.

[1:22:43] » All right, Naveen. I got a bunch of questions. So,

[1:22:46] I'll do the simple ones first. >> Okay.

[1:22:49] » I got to get their money back from the guy who did the plan that up on the

[1:22:52] zoning table is 80,000 not 40.

[1:22:57] It's in an aquifer protection.

[1:23:02] » Where did you say, Mr. Chairman? >> If you look up in the top right of the

[1:23:05] plan, he listed lot area required as 40,000 square feet. Yeah, that's

[1:23:09] » Yeah, I see that. >> But it should be

[1:23:12] 80 cuz it's in a rural. I mean, it's in a resource protection.

[1:23:16] Um my comment on the circles

[1:23:22] » Mhm. >> that has no relative relevance for us.

[1:23:26] It doesn't one way or another cuz it's in Medfield.

[1:23:29] So, I don't know what that proves. >> Because we need frontage.

[1:23:33] » But you don't Okay, I'm going to come to that. The other thing is

[1:23:37] there's a thing in A&R practical frontage and I mean, practical access.

[1:23:42] You really don't have that through the wetlands still.

[1:23:45] » No. >> And the biggest thing in when you read

[1:23:48] A&Rs, you have to have frontage. You guys don't have frontage in Walpole.

[1:23:55] » Right, we don't. So, that's why we were using we met

[1:23:58] » You can't You have to have frontage in the town you're in. You can't have a

[1:24:02] frontage from some other town. >> I didn't think that you needed to have

[1:24:05] frontage in as long as you >> reading A&A and they say whatever the

[1:24:08] city and town and you have to go by what the city and town is. I mean,

[1:24:12] you can check that up on That's what I read. I know you're going to go back and

[1:24:16] » Yeah. >> research it. But when you read it, first

[1:24:19] off, cuz you're going through wetlands, practical access means you can't go

[1:24:23] through them. A river

[1:24:26] uh swamp, a lake, or whatever. You have to be able

[1:24:29] to access. So, it has to be and what it says in the A&R book, very simple, is

[1:24:33] you have to have emergency vehicles go there. Yeah, they can go there now, but

[1:24:38] the other thing when I'm looking at that first look that I'm wrestling with,

[1:24:41] well, somebody kind of has it, but it goes to the other lot. Do you know what

[1:24:44] I mean? >> Mhm.

[1:24:45] » We start on one, then we jump flop over to two.

[1:24:48] So, that needs to be hashed out. But, the bigger

[1:24:51] thing is because there's no frontage in Walpole.

[1:24:55] It is I read the A&R book like that, it has to have frontage in Walpole. And my

[1:25:00] my guess is because this was around forever before Jury Lane was done, they

[1:25:03] probably had were already down. It was probably one

[1:25:08] um big lot all the way down to Elm. This wasn't created during um

[1:25:17] This has been always there. Do you know what I'm saying?

[1:25:20] » Mhm. >> This is like a grandfathered thing. But,

[1:25:22] chances are it had it looped around on my guess on 27. So, that's how they

[1:25:28] ended up up there, but you know, for right now without being in Walpole, I it

[1:25:33] says it has to be, but I'm sure you guys will find something.

[1:25:36] » Yeah, I'll look into it. >> So,

[1:25:39] my my guess so my not my guess, but my

[1:25:44] thought is we got 20 days to approve or not

[1:25:47] approve. If you just want to withdraw and bring it back and tell us why, cuz

[1:25:51] why I'm voting right now is you don't have per

[1:25:55] Mass General Law on the A&Rs, you need frontage.

[1:25:58] » So, it would just be because of the frontage.

[1:26:02] » Well, you also you better you need to solve the problem on the practical

[1:26:06] access >> Yeah, okay.

[1:26:08] Yep. So, that Okay, I understand.

[1:26:12] » No, and the other thing is common driveways is as As know,

[1:26:16] Nadine, I don't care what you put on the plan. All we're doing is approving two

[1:26:19] lots. Whatever's on there, easements, agreements,

[1:26:23] doesn't hold on an A&R plan. >> Yeah, I know.

[1:26:27] There are some things on here that I don't

[1:26:30] that are are confusing. I have a better one that

[1:26:32] was approved by ConCom, but this one and I'll have them make note for the

[1:26:37] next time. But yeah, I'd like to withdraw and come back.

[1:26:40] » Okay. >> [snorts]

[1:26:42] » Now, hopefully you can find something, but

[1:26:48] You probably don't want to hear the history of this, do you?

[1:26:51] » Yes, if it's going to help, I'd certainly like

[1:26:53] » Oh. >> [laughter]

[1:26:55] » The developer, Joey Lane, was the same developer who we just had before on Ross

[1:26:58] Commons. >> Okay.

[1:27:00] » And he was supposed to leave a 46-foot access for the owner of the land

[1:27:03] previously, Joe Poole, down Joey Lane. He didn't. He screwed him.

[1:27:10] You could have come off of Joey Lane through the two couple houses.

[1:27:13] » Yeah. >> And he didn't.

[1:27:15] Joe fell asleep at the the switch, too. I don't know why. Maybe Maybe at the

[1:27:19] time he thought he was a great guy, but no. So, that's what happened. What could

[1:27:23] have happened is he could have had a bunch of houses up Joey, and there's

[1:27:27] plenty of room to move houses and do that, but

[1:27:30] he didn't leave it for him, so he's landlocked. So, Joe was stuck with this

[1:27:34] forever. And I think he sold it to your parents.

[1:27:38] » Yeah.

[1:27:41] » No, Wendy, yeah, yeah. Joe was in Florida, Wendy was home. Yeah.

[1:27:45] Yeah. So, you got to If you want to withdraw without

[1:27:49] prejudice, I'll make that motion. >> Yeah.

[1:27:52] » Second. >> Second. All in favor, aye.

[1:27:54] And if when you're ready, you know how to do this.

[1:27:57] » Yeah. >> Please bring her on back and figure out,

[1:28:00] but I couldn't find anything that's going to

[1:28:04] one way or another, so. >> Okay.

[1:28:07] » You want the form A back?

[1:28:12] » 150 to get any ideas through the planning

[1:28:38] » In Walpole? >> Yes.

[1:28:39] » Yeah, but it's showing in Medfield. This is the circle.

[1:28:42] » The circle in Medfield? >> Yeah, they're showing right on the mid-

[1:28:44] all right at 27. They could have shown it on the plan it

[1:28:48] would fit. >> Yeah.

[1:28:58] » But what you can do Well, that was a subdivision, remember?

[1:29:02] Not an A&R plan. You can do that. Also, if you want to be

[1:29:07] put the circle back on Walpole land if it's

[1:29:11] comes to fruition, you can do everything. We don't care about

[1:29:14] Medfield. I saw that and it's like

[1:29:19] It's in It's in Medfield. No, I know you have more than enough land for the

[1:29:23] circle. So.

[1:29:25] But then it's determined on the wetlands. You want your way back?

[1:29:33] » Yeah. >> You want it back?

[1:29:34] » Yeah. Thank you.

[1:29:40] » Nice. >> Okay, thank you.

[1:29:41] » Yeah.

[1:29:44] Now, hopefully find something.

[1:29:49] » Jack DiMartino left this. It's $6,000 for the trees for the tree warden.

[1:29:55] » 6,000? What's that for? >> It's in his decision that he has to pay

[1:29:59] for street trees. >> So, he's he's going to

[1:30:02] pay for street trees rather than put them in?

[1:30:05] He's going to see He should make a plan with the owner immediately. We just

[1:30:08] can't take checks like that, okay?" When he comes back next time,

[1:30:14] » have him bring it. >> Have him Yeah, have him bring it or we

[1:30:16] hold, I don't care, but we've got to get it on the record in

[1:30:19] » Got you. >> It's not like cash.

[1:30:22] Okay, so I got six grand in cash and we Where to go?

[1:30:26] » Let's go shopping. >> All right.

[1:30:30] » 655 >> Not really.

[1:30:32] » All right. Now,

[1:30:34] » I heard this I didn't think our business would be on.

[1:30:37] I also forgot how much traffic there is in the world and this is so loud.

[1:30:42] » Snooze. Snooze, you lose.

[1:30:45] » Yeah, you snooze, you lose. >> All right.

[1:30:49] Well, we're

[1:30:52] I think some of us are done fighting. I'm not, but

[1:30:58] All right, what we need is because it's not clouded on here

[1:31:02] » I don't know the red exhibit. >> Okay.

[1:31:05] Go through what what you're doing so we understand everything. I think what you

[1:31:10] If I'll give you the overview of what we think and John was looking at, too.

[1:31:13] You're actually reducing the size of a retention basin.

[1:31:17] » By adding infiltration. >> You know, so instead of open, you're

[1:31:20] going under. >> Correct.

[1:31:22] » All right, which is probably >> It's

[1:31:24] » better for everything. >> It is. So, previously,

[1:31:27] um that was actually you'll see in red, it was a large detention basin. So, it

[1:31:31] actually wasn't infiltrating. There was a large stock pile here. Um

[1:31:35] oh, by the way, Taylor Corsano with Crocker Design Group.

[1:31:37] Um there was a large stock pile there that we wanted to do some test pits to

[1:31:41] see if we could find some good area to potentially get infiltration in there.

[1:31:45] Um we did the additional test pits, still all ledge. We did a couple test

[1:31:49] pits over here and found the ledge face. So, it's beautiful sand. So, we ended up

[1:31:54] reducing this detention basin, um which in turn reduced this 10-ft wall down to

[1:32:00] a 4-ft landscape wall, um and put an underground system in this area similar

[1:32:05] to the other drywall systems that we have. So,

[1:32:09] um overall, it made this a lot better by reducing wall

[1:32:13] heights, and uh we are now able to remove some of the detention

[1:32:18] and count infiltration. So, it will infiltrate into the ground rather than

[1:32:21] just holding in the basin. >> All right. The roads haven't changed,

[1:32:25] the access hasn't changed, the lots haven't changed. Nothing's changed other

[1:32:28] than that. >> So, you'll see this house here. All we

[1:32:31] did was flip it up that way, and then just scooch the houses down to make

[1:32:35] room. >> And have you

[1:32:37] done this through storm water management?

[1:32:39] » So, we did it. We submitted the storm water revision to engineering as a part

[1:32:44] of our con com permit. We had a condition in there that we could

[1:32:48] potentially swap that to infiltration. >> The only reason I'd bring that up is if

[1:32:52] if you got approval, yes? >> So, I I emailed Landis everything.

[1:32:57] Last time we did it through engineering with them and Landis, and she was okay

[1:33:02] with that. So, we'll have to see what she says just for later.

[1:33:06] » up is if it does change, then you might have to come back again if something

[1:33:10] changes a little bit, but >> Yeah, it uh related to like just the

[1:33:14] storm water report itself. >> So, okay.

[1:33:18] » Or sorry, that was a question. Is that what you're saying?

[1:33:20] » Yeah. So, you Okay, and you're the civil engineer?

[1:33:23] » Correct. >> And you were surprised to find ledge in

[1:33:27] a quarry? >> [laughter]

[1:33:29] » We found beautiful sand everywhere. It was just in this area.

[1:33:33] » Got you. >> Cuz they they blasted most of it away,

[1:33:36] just not that small section. >> of blasting, yeah.

[1:33:38] » A lot of blasting. >> All the red rocks gone? Purple rocks?

[1:33:41] » Uh I think they still got piles up there.

[1:33:44] » Uh-huh. >> Did you get some yet?

[1:33:46] » All right. So, go ahead, John.

[1:33:48] » So, all the buildings 30 to 35 that were mentioned, which of them has been moved

[1:33:54] or adjusted then? >> So, red is the old, the

[1:33:57] » I can't see red from here. >> Black is new.

[1:33:59] » [laughter] >> Okay, officer.

[1:34:03] » So, red previously we had 1 2 3. >> Okay.

[1:34:05] » Pretty much we just shifted that unit up there, so all of those shifted over and

[1:34:09] then we were able to fit the infiltration basin between those two

[1:34:12] homes. >> 30 got pivoted that way and this just

[1:34:14] all slipped to the left and that one went that way. Okay.

[1:34:18] Any of these homes built yet? >> Yes, phase one I actually am not sure

[1:34:22] how many homes there are through, but I think they I think they may not have

[1:34:25] sold all of phase one, but they're moving and grooving on construction.

[1:34:30] In phase one which is that way and now they're starting construction in phase

[1:34:33] two. >> And that's that's phase two.

[1:34:35] » This is phase two. >> Yep.

[1:34:36] » Okay, and that's where all this rock is piled and everything else, right?

[1:34:40] » So, they got rid of this stock pile um and I think they've moved most of the

[1:34:45] material. I haven't been up there recently, but

[1:34:47] » You're working for Bristol, right? >> Correct. Well, we work for so we did the

[1:34:51] redesign for Pulte, but Pulte has for the homes themselves. Um our Shavano

[1:34:55] works on those folks. >> Okay.

[1:34:56] » But yes. >> All right. I I don't have any questions.

[1:34:59] John, you're all set? >> Yeah.

[1:35:01] » I'm good. >> I'm good.

[1:35:02] » Okay. I'll make a motion for minor being the

[1:35:05] fact that we can actually do some things.

[1:35:08] » Second. >> Second and a second. All in favor?

[1:35:10] » Aye. >> Thank you guys so much.

[1:35:12] » All right. Yep. >> Okay.

[1:35:18] » So, what do we do here? Six.

[1:35:22] All right. Pass that back. That's all.

[1:35:25] All right. And last one, steering.

[1:35:32] Oops.

[1:35:36] Thank you. >> Thank you members of the board. Um

[1:35:38] mostly just using this opportunity to kind of provide an update of where the

[1:35:42] zoning bylaws steering committee committee is. So, initially when I sent

[1:35:46] the memo saying, "Hey, let's let's try to get something on for the fall." We

[1:35:51] ended up meeting again on Monday. Um and there's still some changes that I

[1:35:56] think we want to make as a committee to the bylaw as well as some stuff to run

[1:36:00] by town council. So, there's nothing that we're prepared to bring forward for

[1:36:03] the fall. But, I did just want to kind of

[1:36:06] understand that what we're looking at now is in

[1:36:09] particular the solar bylaw. And the reason being is is kind of

[1:36:12] twofold. One, we understand the issues we've had with

[1:36:16] with litigation regarding the solar bylaw and our compliance with the with

[1:36:21] section 3 of chapter 40A. And then also kind of what initiated it

[1:36:25] is um uh

[1:36:27] the Department of Energy Resources DOER initiated this

[1:36:33] It was in 2024 it was an it was a different act that basically implemented

[1:36:37] what's going to be called consolidated permitting.

[1:36:39] So, what that basically means is that a potential um

[1:36:45] solar developer, if you will, has the option that they could either go forward

[1:36:49] with the town zoning or they could or sorry, they could apply to the town

[1:36:54] as they would any other project or they apply through this consolidated permit

[1:36:59] where it they still need to follow the town zoning, but it's a fast-tracked

[1:37:03] permit essentially. It's it's the state kind of overcomplicating things

[1:37:07] basically if I want to say it like that because it's you know, additional

[1:37:10] paperwork they need to file. There's different requirements that we need to

[1:37:13] do administratively, nothing that the board needs to concern themselves with.

[1:37:17] But, that was kind of what got the thought on that is looking at what DOER

[1:37:20] was implementing and then considering you know, just our past case history.

[1:37:25] And so, the really the big takeaway with the solar one is

[1:37:30] um the SPOD

[1:37:33] in its current um the solar voltaic overlay district in its current format

[1:37:38] is probably not the most efficient way of regulating solar uh just because of

[1:37:44] the case law that's happened with with Kearsarge versus the

[1:37:47] town. So, one of the thought was to be more of

[1:37:50] be more prescriptive when it came to like applicability in terms of you know

[1:37:56] our existing underlying zoning district. So, whether something requires site plan

[1:38:00] review or special permit, we basically state that per zoning

[1:38:04] district rather than an overlay. That was the first process, not to say that's

[1:38:08] going to be the the end goal.

[1:38:12] But trying to find a way to be more so essentially that

[1:38:16] that state requirement is that we cannot prevent the or cannot prevent the

[1:38:21] facilitation or the creation of renewable energy, but we can regulate

[1:38:24] it. It's kind of vague because all right, well, we want to regulate it in

[1:38:29] our town. We'd like to have it have it here. We'd like to have it over here.

[1:38:32] And unfortunately, that's where it kind of comes up with the vagueness is all

[1:38:35] right, well, if if what we did was not working,

[1:38:39] we'll try to be something that's a little bit more open, but still have

[1:38:41] more regulations in place for that change, which is why you see that in one

[1:38:46] of it is like a little bit of a use table where showing the underlying

[1:38:50] zoning districts with you know something as a special permit or as a special

[1:38:53] permit or a site plan review.

[1:38:55] So, again, this is you know, something I just want to have that discussion early

[1:39:00] on cuz I mean obviously we're not ready for the fall, but I would like to

[1:39:03] certainly hear planning board's feedback on something like this and

[1:39:07] thoughts just cuz it's it is more of a planning thing in terms of the future of

[1:39:11] the town. I don't want to put something forward that this board doesn't have

[1:39:16] you know, say on and thoughts on for sure.

[1:39:20] And anyway, the steering committee and had some great comments on our our

[1:39:23] meeting was Monday. So, there's definitely changes that are going to

[1:39:25] happen to the version that you're looking with, but again, just wanted to

[1:39:28] provide that as an update and I know John, I don't know if you have anything

[1:39:32] else as well as part of the steering committee or

[1:39:35] » Um I was asked to bring up the question of

[1:39:39] whether the planning board is willing to sponsor these articles

[1:39:45] for the town uh um

[1:39:48] town meetings. Um

[1:39:50] and I want to get uh thoughts from the other board members as

[1:39:55] to in the past we've always said no, we don't feel it's right for us. I want to

[1:40:01] to reach out and find what issues you feel are most

[1:40:07] um important to you as to why yes or why no.

[1:40:14] » All right, do you want to go first, Kate?

[1:40:16] » Well,

[1:40:19] I'm not saying no, but I'm going to say a couple of concerns, okay? And I'm

[1:40:24] going to be 100% honest. So, I don't feel necessarily town meeting

[1:40:32] looks positively upon the planning board.

[1:40:36] And I do not know if articles have a better chance of getting approved if

[1:40:41] they are not sponsored by us. We can endorse them.

[1:40:45] We can be supportive of them. >> Mhm.

[1:40:47] » But I almost think they're better accepted

[1:40:50] when they come from somewhere else.

[1:40:54] Sorry to say that, but I think it's the honest truth.

[1:40:58] Um the other thing is the committee was

[1:41:03] originated by the selectmen and when they it's

[1:41:07] their committee, so select board, I'm sorry. Um

[1:41:11] it's their committee, so my

[1:41:16] instinct is always to say, well, whoever's committee it is should be

[1:41:19] sponsoring it. So, I'm not saying like a hard no, but those are two concerns I

[1:41:24] have and that's why um

[1:41:28] just my thought process. I don't know.

[1:41:32] » Okay. Bruce?

[1:41:35] » Um yeah, that's again, I don't don't know too much about

[1:41:38] it, so I'd have to abstain from saying it cuz I wasn't involved in any of that,

[1:41:42] but um Who who's that who's that committee who

[1:41:46] what committee would be like if >> Select Board is the one who

[1:41:49] » Select Board >> wants the committee.

[1:41:50] » The creator of the >> Yeah.

[1:41:52] » planning by the zoning bylaw you

[1:41:55] » bylaws >> I'm on it, John's on it.

[1:41:59] Pat's creating um the

[1:42:03] building inspector >> Oh, yeah.

[1:42:05] » and um >> Sarah and Circ and Steve and Forsberg

[1:42:10] are at large members.

[1:42:15] » I want Forsberg. >> Good, Forsberg.

[1:42:17] » Forsberg >> Just know you guys are working hard and

[1:42:19] I think you have a better chance when it doesn't come from us.

[1:42:23] » Okay. All right, well, my comments don't

[1:42:26] change. First off, um Board planning, I'm getting tired of

[1:42:31] hearing that planning is just a name that the Massachusetts General Law gave

[1:42:33] us. We're not the planners, we just do subdivisions and now we do site plans.

[1:42:37] So, that's number one. Number two, you're

[1:42:39] asking five volunteers and a part-time secretary to do this. We have no staff.

[1:42:45] » Well, I'm not asking you to do it. I'm just asking for a like when I come to

[1:42:48] you to talk about >> it, it comes from us, so we're the ones

[1:42:51] that have to make sure we get it done. >> Oh, no, you

[1:42:54] » That's a fun No, no, no. >> Yeah.

[1:42:56] » Well, you go like this, Pat, all right? Who do you work for?

[1:42:59] » The town of Walpole. >> The Who's

[1:43:02] Who's your direct boss? >> Jim Johnson.

[1:43:03] » Okay. So, if we say Pat, you're going to do this, and Jim comes down and wants

[1:43:07] you to do that, where are you going? That's a problem. You have at the

[1:43:12] Selectmen's beckoning, they have everybody. We have zero. All right,

[1:43:15] well, I've gone through this many, many years. Everybody says, "Oh, no, no,

[1:43:18] we'll help." No. No, that That's number one. Number two, and what K said is

[1:43:23] probably the the biggest thing is the fact that the

[1:43:26] Selectmen created this, so it shouldn't be pulled from under them. Uh, the next

[1:43:31] thing is we get it doesn't make sense for us to sponsor it and then we hold a

[1:43:36] public hearing because my view is if you sponsor an article and then

[1:43:41] you're doing the hearing, it looks like the fix is in.

[1:43:44] » We still sponsor the public hearing. >> Right.

[1:43:46] » We do. I mean, yes, you know, it's it's

[1:43:49] regulation, so that's kind of why you have to have the public hearing.

[1:43:52] » no, that's under Mass General Laws, I understand, for us to have a public

[1:43:55] hearing. But if we sponsor it, >> Yeah.

[1:43:57] » it's fated complete or whatever it is. It's like you sponsor it, you're having

[1:44:01] the hearing, well, gee, how does that seem very democratic?

[1:44:06] » what you mean. I just I see sponsor, you don't have to support it. It's just

[1:44:09] moving the moving the ball forward, basically.

[1:44:12] » You're the ones, whoever sponsored has to be the ones at

[1:44:15] town meeting and do all the stuff. That's all. That's why the Planning

[1:44:19] Board has the public hearing. That's what I think it no matter what it is.

[1:44:22] The other thing I I object to is I don't know the stuff you're doing, all right?

[1:44:29] It really most of it affects the Zoning Board more than us. You're tweaking, I

[1:44:33] understand, the Zoning Bylaws. Most of us is in subdivision control, but

[1:44:37] they've never had anybody from the Zoning Board. And they're the ones who

[1:44:40] who probably have more um

[1:44:43] effect on a lot of these than we do. And they've never appointed anybody. Do you

[1:44:47] know why? And it makes sense to have someone from the

[1:44:50] » I believe the Zoning Board makes a judgment on the zoning, whereas

[1:44:53] » Yeah, but why aren't they part of it to say this is wrong? We make a judgment on

[1:44:57] the zoning, not just the Zoning Board. >> True.

[1:45:00] » You know, I I've heard that forever, they're a judiciary board. No, it So

[1:45:04] aren't we? But to have if you're going to face every day this thing is written

[1:45:08] wrong, it's like, can we change it? That'll be if I'm on the Zoning Board,

[1:45:11] I'm tired of this coming. Can we change this? Make sense, okay. So,

[1:45:16] um >> I know.

[1:45:17] » That's what you guys been doing, which is fine. I know you're going through

[1:45:20] making it make sense. You were not doing any dramatic

[1:45:24] » No. >> redoing the town, which I understand.

[1:45:25] But you think about the Zoning boys and girls who use the book more than

[1:45:28] anybody. And I know Jim's doing that and he's

[1:45:32] he'd more in tune with those guys. So, those are the

[1:45:36] simple reason is why we don't I don't like to do it is

[1:45:42] is to have that >> Well, I for this particular thing

[1:45:47] though, obviously solar facilities come forward, they go

[1:45:50] through you and you'd see how these things are laid out. You go through the

[1:45:54] process. So, that >> I didn't get the chance I'm sorry to

[1:45:57] interrupt you but No, that's

[1:45:59] is this selectman's committee. >> Yep.

[1:46:03] » All right. I'll be dead buried before I'll ever say

[1:46:06] select board, but selectman's committee. >> And

[1:46:10] why aren't they sponsoring Can they say no?

[1:46:13] » We're just I honestly this is the first going. We don't feel like it's ready to

[1:46:16] come forward forward. This >> Wouldn't it be Mike more sense for them

[1:46:19] to do it since they formed the committee?

[1:46:22] I mean that would be the saddest thing. They formed a committee would be their

[1:46:25] article I would think.

[1:46:28] » Yeah. >> Yeah.

[1:46:30] Unless it's already been whispered like get them to do it.

[1:46:35] It had to be. Well, I'm going to come right out. It had to be because there's

[1:46:38] no way you're going to come down here as a worker bee and then get us to do it

[1:46:43] and then you go back and then four out of five selectmen say, "What are you

[1:46:46] doing? You ain't doing that." Unless it's been whispered. Yeah, get them to

[1:46:50] do it. >> On a

[1:46:54] different topic though, not Okay, sponsorship sponsorship aside,

[1:47:00] would you oppose to coming forward and just hey before we go forward with this

[1:47:03] thing, what's your thoughts on it? >> What do you mean?

[1:47:06] » So, here's the zoning prior to going toward like putting on a town meeting,

[1:47:12] you know, tweaking it. What's your thoughts as a planning board cuz this is

[1:47:15] something that you guys you see the solar facilities that come forward and

[1:47:19] would never >> I've never I can't speak for everybody

[1:47:22] but I I mean I've never That's what's been missing.

[1:47:25] » Give it to us before a lot most of time we've got them in years past.

[1:47:29] » Yep. >> It's already

[1:47:30] » done. It's too late to change. >> Yep.

[1:47:33] » So before you chisel it in stone.

[1:47:35] » Oh yeah, this is it. This is the before. >> So you want us to give you it right now?

[1:47:41] » No, no, no, not right now. Just more of a general discussion. We're at We still

[1:47:44] need to tweak it and refine it. >> and come back and we can give you

[1:47:48] whatever Yeah. We'll look at it. Yeah, we'll give you

[1:47:51] our input. Without a doubt. We're not going to not run from that. I understand

[1:47:54] that. From our perspective coming at it this way cuz we might find some stuff

[1:47:58] that we've had issues with. I That's fine.

[1:48:00] » Oh yeah. Time I think that's mostly cuz of the timing wise even though it's July

[1:48:05] warrant closes pretty soon and so it doesn't make sense for the fall. Spring

[1:48:09] we have a lot more time to revise and make it

[1:48:11] » That's one of the things I've always objected. People want to start doing

[1:48:14] this like in June and you go, "Wait a minute. June?" And you have one meeting

[1:48:16] July and boom boom, the warrant's here. This You should have By the time you get

[1:48:21] to July it should be the stone. >> Yep.

[1:48:23] » And then it gets passed on to the select board on the warrant, but

[1:48:27] » Okay. >> Yeah, I got

[1:48:29] I think that's fine. >> Yeah.

[1:48:30] » I can I've been here for a while now, but there's a lot of things that have

[1:48:34] happened in the past that will be >> Yeah.

[1:48:37] » your knowledge >> Yeah, no, I It's fine. I think that's

[1:48:40] great, John, as long as you get it because you don't want to

[1:48:43] have We don't want to go through the tennis

[1:48:45] courts again. >> [laughter]

[1:48:48] » Oh, I like that, but >> I had a question.

[1:48:50] » Yeah. >> The solar panels, how what's the life

[1:48:53] expectancy of those? >> Uh 20 years.

[1:48:56] » About 20 years? >> Uh 20 to 20 20 to 30 years, but I mean

[1:49:00] technology changes. >> That's what we're talking

[1:49:03] » If you do maintenance, it could last a little longer, but

[1:49:06] » But who's res- Are they responsible for replacing them when they go bad? Whoever

[1:49:11] » Yeah, there's usually I mean I think even in the existing zoning there is a

[1:49:14] maintenance plan. >> And

[1:49:16] » [clears throat] >> and they're supposed to post a bond.

[1:49:18] » So, when they get >> That was my other question I was going

[1:49:20] to ask. If they take them cuz if they have a like somebody abandoned it or

[1:49:23] just left, said screw it, we're not doing it, is that

[1:49:25] » Oh, yeah. No, no, no. The town's responsible for it.

[1:49:28] » Oh, it's a hundred >> There's a bond Bond is placed on these.

[1:49:31] So, at the end of their lifespan, out they go.

[1:49:33] » Yeah. New ones specifically was put in every like after 10 years. You review it

[1:49:39] and if costs are not >> Then they have to change them.

[1:49:43] » Then every like 5 years after that, you develop with the inflation.

[1:49:46] » my question what you do is brought forth. Now, if I understand this, this

[1:49:50] is the governor. Basically, what this says

[1:49:54] is you can put solar anywhere. No more zoning it out.

[1:49:57] » So, that's not necessarily the governor. That's

[1:50:01] section So, obviously now you know the protective use is a 40A. That's been

[1:50:05] there for over 10 years. The language we So, when we made Well, when the town

[1:50:09] made the SPOD, that language is still in there.

[1:50:12] But as time has gone on, you saw like I think it's Waltham versus Treecer Lane

[1:50:17] was the case before our case. As situations have come up where a solar

[1:50:22] facility has taken a town to court over a certain issue cuz the town regulates a

[1:50:26] certain way, we learn more and more of hey, well, the town regulated so that

[1:50:31] 20% of the land is solar, but then you know, facility wants to go here.

[1:50:37] The courts will come back and say, well, they'll they'll cite that section of um

[1:50:40] they'll cite section three and basically say that you cannot prevent the creation

[1:50:45] of renewable energy. And so, that's why it's a weird open-ended where we

[1:50:50] we thought we had a good pilot, right? SPOD, you're regulating it, you're doing

[1:50:53] an overlay district. They don't give us a number saying, oh, as long as you have

[1:50:57] 20% or 10%, it's open-ended. Almost in the same way like, all right, you can't

[1:51:02] prevent a church from going anywhere. >> That's So, what what I'm saying is my

[1:51:06] zoning map for where you can put solar panels is now gone.

[1:51:11] » With this this is the first proposal, it would be, yeah.

[1:51:13] » Yeah, because that's what the state says. They want Once upon a time we'll

[1:51:16] put them on old dumps. Oh, wonderful. Now you can put them anywhere.

[1:51:21] » With regulation, and so yeah, we could theoretically still regulate and say no

[1:51:24] somewhere. But we just We just risk litigation.

[1:51:27] » protection of one of health, safety, or welfare. So they'd have to really So

[1:51:32] basically this is the Healey thing. We want green, someone's making a boatload

[1:51:35] of money up in Beacon Hill. And on top of it, the other thing you mentioned and

[1:51:39] I read about it right >> So the one you mentioned about is

[1:51:42] » It's called No more site plan.

[1:51:46] Right? >> Never heard of that. No, they they are

[1:51:47] talking about making site plan in court while this is

[1:51:50] » They're talking about making it >> Incorporating it part of the zoning act,

[1:51:53] yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, they want to do that. So you

[1:51:55] come in and zip out. So you're doing it like our um what do

[1:51:59] you call it? Limited site plan. >> I don't know if I mean I just think more

[1:52:03] or less regulation in terms of timelines, but I don't know

[1:52:07] » Basically they're cutting out each town say on site plan.

[1:52:12] You can go right down to Crowley. >> I'd have to see it, but I mean that is

[1:52:15] that is >> they've been talking about is getting

[1:52:17] rid of it. >> Yeah.

[1:52:18] » Yeah. Okay. So but every time we do this it gets a

[1:52:21] little worse. And which Kearsarge was the one that was

[1:52:25] the one on North Street? Because it can't be the one on um

[1:52:28] » Yeah, North Street. North Street Kearsarge. That was the one

[1:52:30] » Yeah, okay, it's To me unfortunately, and I know I'm

[1:52:33] talking a lot, is they didn't go at it way way I wanted to, but I think the fix

[1:52:37] was in anyway is the fact that how do you have a private entity on public land

[1:52:41] making money? And you've heard me more than once say,

[1:52:45] "Can I build a McDonald's on your land?" And Billy Buckley for the county says,

[1:52:48] "No." Then why can't I? You're putting a solar farm there. That's what That's the

[1:52:53] big one. Not not the building permits that was denied, but anyway.

[1:52:57] » Oh, yeah. Now that was a that was an interesting case because I mean they

[1:53:00] initially claimed, you know, >> And that's speaking of which I don't

[1:53:03] know, but we haven't heard maybe you might have on.

[1:53:07] I'll put this one against us. >> Well, they already ruled against us.

[1:53:11] » They said yeah, they said they're going to pick us the clock, but we haven't

[1:53:14] heard squat on that, right? >> it's still in litigation or that's still

[1:53:17] being with counsel. I think it's still with counsel. I haven't

[1:53:21] » Yeah, that one they're going to have a problem. It has nothing to do with

[1:53:24] regulations, the fact that they couldn't produce a letter that said they were

[1:53:28] approved to do these sky high ones. But other than that, I don't mean to

[1:53:33] Anybody have any questions, comments? >> Any headway on

[1:53:37] my continuous ask

[1:53:42] about giving us a say on how things look?

[1:53:46] » Um So I So you're talking about like design

[1:53:49] guidelines? I would probably need to get a

[1:53:54] consultant for that cuz that's a little bit outside. That's We could certainly

[1:53:58] look into that, Katie. I mean that's one of those things where you

[1:54:00] » for us to like design their project. >> No, but I mean to have

[1:54:03] » like if something comes in and it's you know, it would be nice and I it's

[1:54:09] sort of a moot point at this point because everything's built up, but let's

[1:54:13] say someone starts ripping like what we're doing over here. Someone

[1:54:17] starts, you know, buying stuff up and ripping it down and rebuilding it. It

[1:54:22] would just be nice to try and keep some sort of a

[1:54:26] you know >> I thought we would have had a say

[1:54:28] anyways in that. I mean so many

[1:54:30] » I mean not I'm like I say, I'm not looking to paint the house for them and

[1:54:34] tell them what color and just

[1:54:36] » To accept it. Say it looks nice.

[1:54:39] » A New England feel, you know? >> Some people don't like that. That's

[1:54:42] where you get the problems. New England may not be in this time.

[1:54:46] » So the one thing I think we I remember we talked about this.

[1:54:50] So towns will have like a downtown design guidelines and I know you have

[1:54:53] some language within section 13, but the design guidelines almost exist as a

[1:54:57] separate document where a town will try to enforce that. Yes.

[1:55:00] » Yeah, and there's there's election in I think it's Lexington if you're around

[1:55:03] the around the green, you you can only pay

[1:55:05] Yeah. Yeah, that's one thing yeah for sure.

[1:55:08] » I'm not looking for a restriction that tight.

[1:55:11] » Um

[1:55:13] Yep. >> [laughter]

[1:55:15] » But I would say it's so like a town like Westwood I know just

[1:55:19] Westwood for example talking and understanding a lot of their stuff is by

[1:55:23] special permit. So even in their downtown they have a

[1:55:26] lot more control when something has gone in because hey here's our guidelines you

[1:55:31] want your special permit it's going to have to look a certain way and I think

[1:55:34] that's something that gives the town more teeth. Other towns will have like a

[1:55:38] design review committee which sounds like a headache.

[1:55:41] » Yeah and I don't agree with that so much because that just adds another layer

[1:55:46] that you have to go through and I'm not looking to make it hard for people. I

[1:55:49] just would like some sort of a say on you know just rein it in a

[1:55:54] little. You know it's [snorts]

[1:55:57] that's all I want. I don't know how to do that

[1:56:00] » Yeah. >> but I keep asking for it because I feel

[1:56:02] like that I know we didn't have much we only had like a sentence in there but

[1:56:07] now we don't even have that so something.

[1:56:11] » Do you know if there's still a historical commission?

[1:56:14] » There's still a historical commission yeah.

[1:56:15] » I do want to bring that tonight.

[1:56:21] I said one thing. >> I'm not sure I know they're still they

[1:56:24] still they're still in existence. >> Bruce, Christine still on the historical

[1:56:29] » I know. >> No?

[1:56:30] » No. Well, she still knows enough about it but yeah.

[1:56:33] » Yeah. >> While you're here Pat and I know it's

[1:56:36] not necessarily on the agenda but we're not voting but well if people are

[1:56:39] watching all 5,000 of them >> Okay.

[1:56:42] » and they I keep getting asked okay well a few of the projects

[1:56:46] what's up with the old Bay Bank? Just sitting there?

[1:56:49] » The old Bank of America? >> Yeah.

[1:56:52] » It's um I mean they looks like they did some painting recently. Um

[1:56:56] they've had issues from a building permit side in terms of just

[1:57:01] compliance. They're making headway. Obviously, the

[1:57:04] outside is was finished first to keep it watertight. It's ongoing. It's It's I

[1:57:10] don't have a good answer. I think it's >> Okay.

[1:57:12] And they still have their legal licenses, which they probably should.

[1:57:14] Okay. So, that's kind of going. All right.

[1:57:17] » Yeah, I mean, they they they're making headway. They had a giant hole in the

[1:57:21] building throughout the winter, which was not a good idea. They're working on

[1:57:24] it. >> Okay.

[1:57:25] Um, up to Katie where she like to buy something on Spring.

[1:57:29] You heard anything on Spring and West? >> Spring and West?

[1:57:32] » That was dirt. >> No, I mean, they demoed the site. They

[1:57:34] got the fencing >> a while ago, yeah.

[1:57:36] » Yeah. Oh, yeah. Um >> I'm just asking if you've heard

[1:57:39] anything. As things come up, so people ask. I don't know anything and I don't

[1:57:43] know if any of us do. We just >> I think they've pulled their I think

[1:57:45] they have filed for their permits. I know talking to Jim Crowley, just

[1:57:48] getting an update as well where they're going. I'm not sure why it's taking a

[1:57:52] little bit slower, but they are in the process [snorts] of completing their

[1:57:57] permits. They're getting their permits finalized to get going.

[1:58:00] » All right. How about where Rico's is going in those condos? Are those They

[1:58:04] selling those? >> Uh

[1:58:08] I think they're actually rental now. >> Okay.

[1:58:10] » But >> When are we getting that parking lot?

[1:58:13] » It's a good question. >> Yeah.

[1:58:14] » I don't have an answer for that. >> I think you should have. Parking lot,

[1:58:17] I'll give you your CEO. So, you know you know what's going on there.

[1:58:20] » No. >> Um

[1:58:21] Keep going around the town. Up on High Plains Street at the old water tower.

[1:58:25] That was >> Uh That's So, that's a similar the same

[1:58:29] developer of the Bank of America building. Same issues.

[1:58:32] » Okay. >> Um

[1:58:33] » Huh. So, it's plugging along. >> Look like they were working on

[1:58:36] » Yeah, I think both have started to get going a little bit more, but I mean,

[1:58:40] obviously, it's it's strange to have taken that long for something like that.

[1:58:44] » On a positive note, the clock tower looks great. That came out great.

[1:58:47] » No, I mean, what happened with that? That's the next one. What happened on

[1:58:49] the clock tower? It stopped. It stalled. That means

[1:58:52] » the clock stop moving? >> Yeah.

[1:58:54] » [laughter] >> I'm not I'm not sure. I know they were I

[1:58:58] think they might be moving inside a lot of that out there.

[1:59:00] » No, well, every time I go by, they went to town on this site, which is good.

[1:59:04] They're doing all the stuff in the foundations in the winter and it's like,

[1:59:07] "Wow, it's framed and everything else." But

[1:59:10] nothing inside, it's all just studs. I mean, it's hasn't moved in a couple

[1:59:13] months. The windows are open. >> I haven't heard anything on it. You

[1:59:16] haven't heard anything >> I haven't heard anything. I know they

[1:59:19] they got that siding up quick and I think it was I mean, it's looking nice.

[1:59:22] » I'm trying to bring out that there might be some case someone

[1:59:26] wants to know, well, at least you're updating us. So, so far, we haven't

[1:59:29] heard anything that the town knows that something other than a few building

[1:59:32] issues over here at the old Bay Bank. Uh I don't know if any others.

[1:59:38] Any other ones sitting out there doing nothing?

[1:59:42] » Gilmore's. >> I think

[1:59:44] that's expired, hasn't it? >> It hasn't expired, no. It's still It's

[1:59:49] still valid, the permit. >> Oh, it is? I thought they were over

[1:59:51] there 2 years now. >> 2 years, yeah, but the permit's 3 years

[1:59:54] and then they were approved, it was still within that whole tolling period,

[1:59:57] so they got 2 additional years. Do you remember the whole So, this is a

[2:00:01] Healey thing, she passed >> Yeah, okay, that's what I was saying.

[2:00:04] Yeah, okay, so they Think they'll ever go?

[2:00:07] » I believe so. I mean, we've had we've had communication with them. Um

[2:00:12] » No market anymore. Markets How many How many apartments do

[2:00:17] you need? And plus, we got We kicked enough people out of this

[2:00:21] country that you don't need that anymore. But basically, the markets,

[2:00:24] you know, they're having troubles now, a lot of these places renting.

[2:00:28] » Yeah, I mean, we've been communicating with them. There's like an easement

[2:00:30] there. Relocating an easement, so that's been work that's been ongoing with them

[2:00:34] and both their attorney and our attorney in

[2:00:37] terms of the language of that easement, so it's slowly some of the paperwork

[2:00:40] behind the scenes is getting figured out. And I know that they had to reach

[2:00:43] out to the Federal Railroad Commission cuz is cuz of

[2:00:46] and that took a while for them to get answers there, but

[2:00:50] » The one that is CVS on to East Street, they should cut that bush. You can't see

[2:00:53] at all. >> Which CVS on East? Oh.

[2:00:58] » Yeah, it's really bad. >> Yeah. Um the other one is

[2:01:02] it's moving along, but the doggie hospital, animal hospital on

[2:01:06] Route 1. >> Yeah.

[2:01:08] » Across from the old Red Wing. Are they done yet, do you know?

[2:01:11] » I'm pretty sure they're if they're not, it's very close.

[2:01:14] » Yeah, yeah. How about the one on Water Street? Remember that old place where we

[2:01:16] first met? >> It does. I think I think they're pretty

[2:01:19] much close to being done. Again, that'd be more of a Crowley question cuz he'd

[2:01:22] be doing the CO at that point, but I think from my

[2:01:24] » Okay, but you hear this stuff. >> Yeah, I know.

[2:01:26] » And the car place, is that >> Big Car? Not Big Car's, the um Car Barn.

[2:01:31] » I think that's done. >> Yeah, that's done. Yeah.

[2:01:33] » That's all done? >> Yeah.

[2:01:35] » They got any You guys haven't gone up to see any cars in there?

[2:01:38] » I have. >> I saw the lifts. The lifts are pretty

[2:01:40] cool, but I haven't seen the cars. >> Nice. Big box, right?

[2:01:43] » Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay, I just along with that,

[2:01:45] those seem like the only ones that seem to get done in a hurry, which is good.

[2:01:48] » Commercial, yeah. >> Yeah, I know. Usually

[2:01:51] » West Street, you ever get done? You lose, Osmond?

[2:01:55] » On where? >> The little

[2:01:58] They had a smaller scale thing they were doing, the loop from West uh

[2:02:02] Norfolk Street over on West Street. Access on both sides.

[2:02:08] It was something in the same nature about smaller scale.

[2:02:11] » Oh, the Russo. Yeah, Tony's building. Yeah, that's done. His his his car barn

[2:02:15] there on Norfolk Street. >> Yeah.

[2:02:18] » That's done. I'm pretty sure that's done.

[2:02:21] » I thought I saw a you know, to get back to the clock tower, I thought I saw a

[2:02:24] for sale sign or something up there. I don't know if

[2:02:27] that's for for rent units there, or is that for the

[2:02:31] whole building? I I didn't really look at what it was, but

[2:02:34] » I went by today and I saw the same thing, and I didn't the same thing. I

[2:02:37] didn't know if it was for rent or >> So they're usually they're selling the

[2:02:40] building now, are they?

[2:02:44] All right. Thank you.

[2:02:45] » You got the TV time, so if anybody asks, I'll save you time. Call YouTube, I

[2:02:50] mean, go to YouTube and see what we talked about at the end of the meeting.

[2:02:53] » You know, I'm here, might as well talk, right?

[2:02:55] » Yeah, I know, but you might as well, cuz I get people up boom boom boom boom

[2:02:58] boom, and it's like, I don't know. >> It's a cool A&R though, right?

[2:03:01] » A what? >> That A&R, it's kind of unique, right?

[2:03:03] » Yeah, but it's I think there's there's a problem with the frontage.

[2:03:07] » It's a nice property. You don't see a situation like that often though. Sorry.

[2:03:09] » I think what happened is it's the old days, they cut it was a farm, and the

[2:03:13] old days, people didn't pay attention. If you go back 50 years in this town,

[2:03:16] you see some of the A&Rs, you go, "Whoa."

[2:03:18] » Yeah. >> There's one

[2:03:21] example on uh Common Street. You know where the top

[2:03:23] of Pocahontas is on Common? >> Yeah.

[2:03:25] » Right before you get to Common Ones. >> Yeah.

[2:03:27] » There's a driveway between two houses.

[2:03:32] You're lucky if you get 20 ft. How'd that happen?

[2:03:36] Back in the good old days, there was a lot of good old stuff done that they

[2:03:39] didn't pay a whole lot of attention to. >> Yeah.

[2:03:42] » But that was when there was nobody here anyway.

[2:03:44] There's a couple up in North Walpole that were like that, because they're off

[2:03:47] of High Street, way up by Mansfield Line.

[2:03:50] » Who cares? >> Well, it's like Walch here with Battle

[2:03:53] and that over on Lincoln with the uh easement.

[2:03:56] » Mhm. >> There's a floating easement, but the

[2:03:57] problem was with the property. He was put in the wrong

[2:04:00] » Yeah. >> In fact, no one cared back then.

[2:04:04] Anyway. >> Yeah.

[2:04:05] » Cuz thank you. Yeah, we You got to go. Katie's got to go, so we want to wrap

[2:04:09] this up. Actually, she's got a long commute.

[2:04:11] Which way you going, right or left? >> Katie's going to make a motion to end

[2:04:14] it. >> I'm going over to

[2:04:15] » What are they doing on Diamond Street? >> They're um replacing the water line.

[2:04:21] » Every time I go down Stone Street, there's new stuff.

[2:04:23] » It's all over the goddamn >> There's a lot of things going on in the

[2:04:25] whole area. There's construction on Stone Street. There's utilities being

[2:04:30] done down there. >> Pat, since I've been I I was around

[2:04:33] during the day until I retired, it's crazy.

[2:04:36] Have they always had this much work going on on the roads as they are?

[2:04:41] I mean, I >> I honestly feel like in the past few

[2:04:43] days they just started doing the I mean, I know they just started doing the work

[2:04:46] over there and the work I did >> But Diamond Street and then you have

[2:04:49] Stone Street and there was somewhere Everywhere I turned there was Well,

[2:04:52] Lynch was paving all those Everywhere I turned there was and it's all Sherrice.

[2:04:57] » Why shouldn't the street Yeah, it's a lot of Sherrices as well.

[2:05:00] » Yeah, the timing was uh >> Oh, they're they're everywhere. I'm just

[2:05:03] just curious. But I heard Diamond they're going to

[2:05:08] pave it with the gold.

[2:05:11] » That's a special Sherrice today. >> No, they paving it

[2:05:15] Diamond Street in certain portion they're paving in gold.

[2:05:20] » It's going to become the Golden Brick Road.

[2:05:21] » And she's making a claim against P.J. Hayes cuz they ruined her lawn.

[2:05:25] » Oh my god. I have to be honest and I'll say this on TV.

[2:05:29] The crew from Hayes could not be nicer. >> Kevin and the rest of

[2:05:33] » They're very courteous. They are professional. They do a great job.

[2:05:39] No complaints. >> Still making a claim on your grass

[2:05:41] dying? >> Stop with my grass.

[2:05:43] » Did you say Did you say >> I make a motion to adjourn.

[2:05:48] » I said

Planning Board meeting July 16, 2026

Transcript