[1:05] Good morning, everyone. I apologize. I have a few technical issues here. Today is December 22, 2022, and this is an open meeting of the Utilities and Transportation Commission. My name is Dave Dana. I'm Chair of the Commission, and I'm joined by my colleagues, Commissioner Milkdum and Commissioner Ann Rendol. Jing Roth, are there any changes to the agenda today? Good morning, Chairman. Can you hear me, okay? Yes, I can. Thank you.

[1:33] Okay, so good morning, Chair Diner, Commissioner Randall, Commissioner Dumont.

[1:38] I'm in June wrong.

[1:39] We have a regulatory service division.

[1:42] And there are a couple changes to today's agenda.

[1:46] One is the no-action portion of agenda.

[1:53] Item F-26,

[1:58] UE-22-08, date-8.

[2:03] an item member, IF-27, UE-22-0889, should be removed from today's agenda.

[2:16] All right, thank you very much.

[2:18] And, and I'm pretty big.

[2:21] There is a random, which is a, a random two for item E-15, is a T-S-22-0908.

[2:41] The year should be 2023 in the regular gender shows 2022.

[2:49] If you would like me to read the entire description, I will, but it was just a title.

[2:54] No, okay. I think that is fine. Thank you.

[2:56] And that's all. Thank you.

[2:59] All right. Thank you very much.

[3:01] Is there anyone on the call today who wishes to speak to an item on the consent agenda or

[3:11] the no action agenda or would like to have one of those items move to the regular portion

[3:15] of the agenda for discussion?

[3:20] I would just like to make a comment if I could about the Driftwood Valley, Sailor Driftwood

[3:25] Valley water system.

[3:27] Yes, go ahead.

[3:28] Can you identify yourself?

[3:29] Yes, my name is Deanna Taver, and I have served on the board of Driftwood Valley community

[3:35] and I've worked with Washington Water on the sale of that system for the last year and a half.

[3:41] I just wanted to comment that our community met with Washington Water folks in September of 2021,

[3:49] and we voted unanimously and overwhelmingly to sell our water system to Washington Water.

[3:56] And in December of 2021 we entered into an operation and maintenance agreement with Washington

[4:01] Water to run our system and operate it until the sale of that system was closed.

[4:07] We have been overwhelmingly satisfied with their services and with working with them.

[4:13] And we are really looking forward to finalizing water system because it will provide a stable

[4:23] water system for our community.

[4:25] So, I just wanted to mention that.

[4:28] All right.

[4:29] Thank you very much, Deanna Taylor.

[4:30] And that is with regard to item 501 E9 just for the record.

[4:37] That's UW220859.

[4:40] So I appreciate your comments.

[4:42] And that is on the consent agenda for this morning.

[4:46] So thank you very much.

[4:47] Is there anyone else who wishes to discuss any item that is on the open meeting or consent agenda?

[4:53] All

[4:57] right, hearing nothing, I would entertain a motion on the consent.

[5:02] Oh, yes, go ahead.

[5:04] Yes, this is Pete Clement.

[5:07] I live in Gig Harbor and I'm currently a customer of the Stroze Water Company system.

[5:14] And so I'm interested in, I guess it's called Item Number UW220614,

[5:22] the acquisition of Stroze by Washington Water.

[5:25] and I'm just curious about how that's playing out.

[5:28] I'm new to listening in on these,

[5:31] although I'm a Land Use Advisory Commissioner

[5:34] for the Gay Harbor District

[5:36] that have not called in on this call

[5:39] or been involved in this process at all.

[5:41] So I'm just new and interested

[5:43] in how the process works.

[5:45] All right, well, thank you very much, Mr. Clements.

[5:47] My name, this is with regard to a consent item agenda.

[5:51] But it is item E4, basically we have the way the process works is a company files and

[6:04] our staff reviews it.

[6:06] They make a recommendation to us at an open meeting like this.

[6:12] Generally, where something is deemed to be non-controversial, then it goes on a consent agenda, and

[6:17] this one was placed on the consent agenda, and that's why we ask at the beginning of every

[6:20] meeting if someone wants to discuss something that we have placed on the consent agenda to make sure

[6:25] that we can receive public input before we go forward. So this is your opportunity. We have

[6:32] an application for sale and transfer of the company's assets to Washington water

[6:39] and it's on the consent agenda this morning, but if you have thoughts that you want to share with

[6:44] them with us and we would like to hear them.

[6:49] Well yes I received a letter from as did I assume all the

[6:52] most of the other 800 or so subscribers to straws water received the letter

[6:59] regards to this transfer we've known this is coming for a while our monthly

[7:05] statements have been issued by Washington water instead of straws. I've been on

[7:10] the straw system since this house was built and I bought it in 2000 and so the

[7:17] One, two, three, four, the fifth paragraph makes a statement in the letter that we received

[7:22] that we do not expect your water rates to change immediately as a result of this transaction.

[7:29] That would be my largest concern at this point in time.

[7:34] Reliability comes number two.

[7:36] We've never had a problem.

[7:38] I have never had my water system shut down or received any notice of any problem with the

[7:43] water supply, the water quality of never had any problems with dirty water or anything since

[7:50] the year 2000 when I came onto the system. I would like to see that continue but as I said my

[7:57] first concern and consideration is the rates and I assume that there would be a similar meeting to

[8:04] this or another one down the road downstream, no pun intended, with regards to any prospective

[8:12] rate increases? Yeah, that that is correct. If if the company is going to seek to raise rates they

[8:18] have to file a rate for a rate increase with the commission at which time you'll be notified

[8:25] and it will come before us at an open meeting and we would take public comment at that time and

[8:31] that would all be in the notice. The fact that Washington water is sending in bills right now indicates

[8:37] that the company is managing the system under contract with Stros as it finalizes its purchase,

[8:44] but the purchase has to be approved by the commission before it goes forward, and that's what

[8:48] we're doing this morning. Nothing really changes. Of course, Stros could come in for a rate increase

[8:53] if it were to continue as the owner. But Washington water as well, but that would be a separate proceeding.

[9:01] So, what's before us this morning is simply the change of the ownership.

[9:06] And so, Tiffany Van Meter from our staff is here, and if you have any further questions

[9:15] I can engage with her.

[9:19] Is there anything we can follow up with?

[9:24] I know that's fine.

[9:26] I'm just, like I said, I'm new to this process, so just getting my feet in the water.

[9:30] know. And trying to find out how this process works. We've been very satisfied. I must say

[9:42] since day one a typical winter water bill was $17.75. Typical summer bill and we have three

[9:51] quarters of an acre would know we'd be no greater than $45 a month.

[9:58] And we've heard of rates of surrounding areas, surrounding gig harbour properties that

[10:06] pay significantly more than that, don't quite understand why, so I'll be curious to see

[10:12] how the process works with regards to our rates, if in fact anything does change.

[10:19] Yeah, and I can't guarantee that they will not come in for a rate increase, I mean, we're

[10:23] in a time of inflation and but if they do that we would go through the process just as I described it

[10:29] and you would have an opportunity to weigh in submit comments or testify in front of the commission

[10:35] at that time. Very good. All right thank you. All right. Well thank you very much.

[10:40] All right is there anyone else on the call who wishes to discuss a consent item or a no action item?

[10:48] All right hearing none then I would entertain a motion on the consent agenda.

[10:53] And I would be happy to offer a motion.

[10:55] I move that the items on the consent agenda be approved as proposed, and that the secretary

[11:00] be directed to sign the letter or order, implementing the commission's action as to each

[11:05] item consistent with this decision.

[11:08] Mr. Chair, I would second the motion.

[11:11] All right.

[11:11] And the motion carries.

[11:12] Thank you.

[11:13] And thank you, Mr. Clemens and Ms. Taver, for your participation this morning.

[11:19] I appreciate it very much.

[11:21] Let's move to item A1, and that's Puget Sound Energy.

[11:30] Now let's tell us good morning.

[11:32] Good morning, commissioners.

[11:33] I'm Alex Tullis, representing regular choice services.

[11:37] I'm here to address item A01.UG220801, in which PSE is proposing to revise its National

[11:46] Gas Schedule 137 to increase the monthly per block rate of carbon offsets from $3 to $450.

[11:52] customer participation in this service is voluntary.

[11:56] The company's proposed rate increase

[11:58] or flex the increasing market price for carbon offsets.

[12:01] Carbon offset market has become increasingly more competitive

[12:04] and as a result prices for offsets have risen.

[12:08] The proposed rates would allow PSU to maintain

[12:10] a reserve balance which would promote long-term rate stability

[12:13] by providing the company with a balance

[12:15] to pull from when market prices increase.

[12:18] The company aims to maintain a six to 12 month reserve balance

[12:21] which staff accepts as a reasonable target for this filing. However, it is not clear from the

[12:25] company's analysis that the reserve balance is sized for the price and risk in the carbon offsets

[12:31] market. While staff recommends the commission allow the proposed rates to go into effect, staff also

[12:37] encourages the company to further evaluate how it can base its program reserves on an analysis

[12:42] of market risk, which may become more feasible as the voluntary carbon market continues to expand

[12:47] and mature. Another issue staff looked into is the lack of interest occurring on the reserve

[12:52] balance. PSC indicated to staff that it does not accrue interest on the reserve balance

[12:57] because the reserve balance is treated as working capital and reduces the rate base in PSC's general

[13:03] rate cases. Staff will be able to confirm that the reserve balance is included in working capital

[13:08] in the current GRC. So for now staff is comfortable allowing PSC to exclude interest from this federal

[13:15] 137 rate calculation. However, staff leaves it would be more appropriate for the interest

[13:20] benefits remain with schedule 137 customers. Therefore, staff recommends that PSU remove

[13:26] the reserve balance from working capital in its next great case and then begin accruing

[13:30] interest on those of balance. Staff reviewed the company's filing and

[13:34] associated work papers and recommends the commission take no action. They're by allowing

[13:39] I'm Tara Sheets filed in Docket, UG220801 to become effective January 1, 2023 by Operation

[13:46] of Law.

[13:47] That concludes my presentation, and I believe a representative from KSC is present and

[13:51] available for questions.

[13:53] Thank you.

[13:56] All right.

[13:57] Thank you very much.

[13:57] So let me ask commissioners, do you have any questions for Alex Tellers?

[14:03] No questions.

[14:04] Mr. Chair, Alex is thoroughly briefed on this previously as well.

[14:07] No questions here.

[14:08] Thank you.

[14:09] And I also have no questions, but I'm happy to hear from the company if they have something

[14:13] there was to say. All right. So Alex, I do have one question for you. It has to do with the

[14:20] timelines. I mean, we were encouraging the company to further evaluate the program.

[14:28] And that's basically we're going to want to see how the voluntary carbon market

[14:33] expands and matures. What kind of timeline do you see? Or this? How soon? I mean,

[14:40] How long is it going to take for us to have that kind of a further analysis or is it iterative and ongoing?

[14:46] The company indicated that based on their projected expenses for the program they would have to likely come in for another rate increase.

[14:54] I believe in two years or after two years.

[15:00] So, I would expect by then they indicated there's some upcoming resources that are going to be available to them in the next year or so. So, I'd expect by then to see a little bit more analysis. All right. All right. Thank you very much. And I see we have some company representatives on the line. Veronica Martin and Leslie Myers from PSC. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning commissioners. My name is Veronica Martin.

[15:28] I'm a senior tariff analyst with Fugus on Energy.

[15:31] Fugus does want to take the opportunity to thank both Alex,

[15:35] Celiz, and Chris McGuire for all of their time

[15:38] and their thoughtful review and recommendations

[15:40] with the styling.

[15:41] We greatly appreciate their guidance.

[15:43] We don't have anything specific further to add at this time,

[15:46] but I am available for any questions.

[15:49] All right, thank you.

[15:51] Commissioners, do you have any questions for the company?

[15:55] No questions here, thank you, Mr. Chair.

[15:57] Okay, so Veronica Martin, this is a rather sizable increase.

[16:05] We're going from another, we're having a $1.50 increase here, and I understand that

[16:13] last year we reduced the amount.

[16:17] Is this size properly in your mind?

[16:19] Are you asking for just what you need and not more than what you need here?

[16:24] I would say that, as far as we can tell, yes. When we reduced the rate in 2020, of course,

[16:31] that was right before COVID and a lot of things have changed both in pricing in general and in

[16:37] the market since that happened. But with right-sizing the pricing now to hold about six to 12 months

[16:44] of program reserves, we do believe that this will offer a lot more price stability for our customers.

[16:49] Our goal is to not have the rate fluctuate year-to-year or anything like that.

[16:54] We would like to offer that stability so that customers can feel comfortable coming in

[16:58] and purchasing a voluntary service knowing that they're not going to see wild fluctuations

[17:02] in their bill from year-to-year.

[17:05] Do you expect that you will have a decrease in participation as a result of this?

[17:11] It's difficult to say for sure.

[17:13] However, we conducted a customer survey in August prior to making this proposed increase

[17:18] and we're proposing to make this increase.

[17:22] And while the majority of the comments that we received back indicated that customers

[17:27] did value the service itself and the benefits of the service over the price of the service,

[17:33] we also know that the commission received some comments that indicated frustration or disappointment

[17:37] in the rate increase.

[17:38] So it is possible that we'll see some fluctuations in participation, but we're also hoping that with the state highlighting its carbon reduction goals, the more customers will find a benefit in the service and begins subscribing.

[17:53] All right, thank you very much. I have no further questions. Let me ask a question. Do you have any other questions for the company?

[18:02] Mr. Chair, if I'm right, I just don't really understand but bearing on the decision

[18:06] for just the curiosity, the forest, these cofuses come primarily from forest

[18:10] offices. Just wondering what is that agreement by forest owners of the

[18:15] tree's not to cut those trees or what's the mechanism? What does that look like?

[18:24] So essentially forest tree offsets and this might be too much background.

[18:28] So I apologize if this is coming in the weeds.

[18:30] And again, now my turn to apologize, no fun intended.

[18:34] Forestry offsets remove carbon.

[18:36] So when trees grow, they pull carbon from the air

[18:38] and they turn it into limbs, trunk, fruit, sleeves.

[18:42] And in doing so, they sequester carbon,

[18:44] which means that they hold the carbon

[18:46] so instead of letting it be in the air.

[18:48] So as long as the tree is growing, it's sequestering.

[18:50] And the longer it grows, the more carbon it removes and holds.

[18:54] And so for every metric tons sequestered,

[18:56] one carpet offset is quote unquote generated.

[19:00] And there are three different ways to generate

[19:01] a forestry offset, to create or re-establish a forest

[19:05] to new plantings, to protect a forest,

[19:08] like avoid a real threat, like an agricultural conversion,

[19:11] or let a working forest grow longer

[19:14] by changing business practices.

[19:18] And most of our offsets come from the Tsunon

[19:20] profits that are working against climate change,

[19:22] who are the Bonneville Environmental Foundation

[19:24] and the climate trust.

[19:27] Great. That wasn't too much.

[19:28] That was just perfectly what I wanted to.

[19:30] Thank you very much. Thank you.

[19:31] You're welcome.

[19:33] All right. Thank you very much.

[19:36] Let me ask if there was anyone else on the call who wishes to discuss this item.

[19:47] All right. Hearing nothing.

[19:48] This is a no-action item.

[19:50] We do not have to have a motion on this,

[19:52] but commissioners, can I get your sense?

[19:54] Are you okay with letting these

[19:58] tariff sheets become effective by operation of law.

[20:02] Yes.

[20:03] And yes, as well. Thank you.

[20:05] Okay. So wait as unanimous.

[20:07] We will take no action on this.

[20:09] And the tariff will go into effect by operation of law.

[20:11] Thank you all.

[20:12] And let's move on now to item B1, Harold Lumay.

[20:19] Jacqueline Simmons, good morning.

[20:20] Good morning, commissioners.

[20:22] So Jacqueline Simmons from regulatory service presenting item B01.

[20:26] one, docket TG-2-2-2-0-8-2-3,

[20:30] for Harold Lemay enterprises doing businesses

[20:33] here's counting refuse.

[20:35] On November 7th, 2022, Lemay filed

[20:38] Terra-free vision increase, which generate approximately

[20:41] 18,500 an additional annual revenue,

[20:44] and filed for an exemption to WACC for 80-075-2-0

[20:48] subsection for for work favors.

[20:50] The company's service approximately 150,000 customers.

[20:54] On October 3rd, 2022, we made a notified staff that there was an error in calculation

[21:00] of rates, which became effective on October 1st, 2022, in Docket, TG, 22, 0548, and requested

[21:09] that staff rely on the work papers, approved in that case.

[21:13] Staff reviewed the final workbook, approved from Docket, TG, 22, 0548, and found that the

[21:19] company was correct.

[21:19] the rates calculated in the rate case were done by using the face rate from the inflated

[21:24] COVID recovery rate agreed upon in Docket TG 210-437 instead of using the non-COVID recovery

[21:32] rates. In September of 2021, the Commission approved Docket TG 210-437, which establish

[21:39] rates for recovery of COVID expenses during the state of emergency. The Commission allowed

[21:45] two sets of rates for the company. One said that became effective September 1st, 2021,

[21:50] term COVID rates set to expire in August 31st, 2023. And one term said non-COVID rates that

[21:58] would become effective once the COVID rate is fired. In Docket, TG220, 548 staff in the company

[22:05] agreed to include and amortize over a three-year period. The remaining allowed COVID

[22:10] a COVID expense that had not yet been recovered in rates.

[22:13] The company has now one set of rates

[22:15] with COVID recovery built in.

[22:19] The company also found that the rates

[22:20] were put that were put into the tariffs

[22:24] that became effective October 1st, 2022

[22:26] were the non-COVID rates

[22:28] but increased by the percentage that the staff

[22:30] calculated with inflated COVID rates.

[22:33] And that the rates effective October 1st, 2022

[22:35] would not generate the company's allowed revenue requirement.

[22:38] to correct both errors staff changed the calculation by using the base rate from the non-COVID

[22:43] rates instead of the COVID recovery rates and recalculated the revenue requirement to include

[22:49] the new expense for customer notice to inform customers of the errors and rate change.

[22:54] The new calculated rates for Pierce County, a customer using a 35-gallon weekly with recycling is

[23:01] going from $20.42 to $20.59, a 17-cent increase.

[23:07] I customer using one yard weekly is going from $30.67

[23:11] to $33.94, a 27-cent increase.

[23:15] And for JBLM, a customer using a 65-gallon with recycling

[23:19] is going from $23.80 to $23.99, a 19-cent increase.

[23:25] And a customer using a 95-gallon with recycling

[23:28] is going from $31.17 to $31.42, a 25-cent increase. Staff recommends issuing an order granting

[23:38] the request for exemption from WAC 480-07520 subsection 4 and allow the tariff pages filed by

[23:45] Herala Media Enterprise's Inc. doing business as Pierce County Refuse on November 7, 2022,

[23:58] and

[23:58] operation of law. I'm available for questions and the company and the

[24:02] representatives are on the line. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioners, do you

[24:06] have any questions for Jacqueline Simmons? No questions. Thank you. I have no

[24:11] questions. I was thoroughly pretty. Thank you, John. As was I just want to clarify

[24:17] though that the company did send a notice out with regard to this change and

[24:22] that, okay, so customers were notified.

[24:30] It's all the questions I have.

[24:32] Let me ask if the company is on the line

[24:34] if they wish to make any additional statement.

[24:38] Lindsay Walden?

[24:39] Yes, that is me.

[24:41] I am a representative with the company.

[24:42] I'm also joined with Joe Wanderlick from the company.

[24:45] We would just like to thank staff for all of their hard work

[24:48] and help through this process as well as the commission's time

[24:51] in reviewing this item.

[24:52] But we have no further comments all right. Thank you very much. Is there anyone else on the call who wishes to discuss this matter right

[25:05] hearing nothing?

[25:07] This is an item that

[25:10] Corrects an error the company does need to meet its revenue requirement or have an opportunity to meet its revenue requirement and so we're correcting this error

[25:19] However, it will have an impact on bills, but it's in the area of around 17 cents for most customers.

[25:29] And it's something I think that needs to be directed, so I would support, I would support a motion, but if any of my colleagues disagree, this is the time to share your thoughts.

[25:43] I do agree with the staff's recommendation here, and I'm happy to make a motion, but wait for my colleague to weigh in.

[25:52] Yes, I concur with the staff's recommendation, and thank you, Jacqueline, for the thorough briefing on this.

[25:58] All right. Let's proceed with the motion.

[26:01] Okay. I move that in docket TG 220823 that the commission issue an order granting of

[26:10] press for exemption from WACC 480-075-20 sub 4 and allow the tariff pages filed by Harold

[26:19] LeMay enterprises incorporated doing business as Pierce County refuse on November 7, 2022

[26:25] to become effective January 1st, 2023 by Operation of Law.

[26:31] And I would second the motion, Mr. Chair.

[26:33] All right, thank you, and the motion carries.

[26:37] All right, appreciate it.

[26:38] Let's move to item B2, and this is Clutter Inc.

[26:43] Mike Young.

[26:44] Good morning.

[26:45] Good morning, commissioners.

[26:47] I'm Mike Young from Regulatory Services, presenting item B2, which is a motion by Clutter Inc.

[26:52] to extend the waivers from Terra-15C that were granted in order one of this

[26:56] docket and extended in order two to December 31st, 2022. Clutter's motion

[27:02] would extend the waivers until March 31st, 2023 or until staff completes its

[27:07] review of Terra-15C, whichever is earlier. Along with the extension in order two that

[27:12] was issued in April 28th of this year, the Washington Movers Conference filed a

[27:16] petition for changes to tariff 15c in docket TV210812, which the commission combined with

[27:23] this docket. Staff is still reviewing tariff 15c and the data filed by the Washington

[27:28] Movers Conference and is confident it will complete its review before March 31st. Therefore,

[27:34] staff recommends the commission grant the motion from clutter and extend the waivers from

[27:37] tariff 15c previously granted until March 31st, 2023 or until staff completes its review

[27:43] and filed revives, tariff pages and tariff 15C,

[27:48] or until new rules are completed, whichever occurs sooner.

[27:51] I'm available for questions.

[27:53] I believe there is a representative from the company on the line,

[27:55] and also from the Washington Movers Conference.

[27:58] All right. Thank you.

[27:59] Commissioner, do you have any questions for Mike Yow?

[28:03] Yes. Thank you, Chair DeHunter.

[28:05] So, like I appreciate the information.

[28:09] So you're still going through the data that you have now received

[28:13] from the Movers Conference and as you can tell, given by the number of solid waste and water

[28:19] items on this agenda, the staff has been pretty busy over the last few months, as I imagine.

[28:26] And so, but you don't anticipate this review taking much longer.

[28:30] That's correct, yes. We were a little bit delayed due to staffing issues, but again,

[28:34] we're confident we'll complete this before the end of March.

[28:37] Okay, thank you.

[28:39] And I've thoroughly briefed by Mike previously, Mr. Chair, no questions from me.

[28:44] Thank you.

[28:45] All right.

[28:45] Thank you.

[28:46] So Mike, just the original waiver was until May 1st, that was extended till December 31st,

[28:53] which is coming up, and basically just need a little more time.

[28:59] That's correct.

[29:00] We have some language, rule language to review, and then also the new compiled data for

[29:05] right calculations. All right. Thank you very much.

[29:14] Let's I have no further questions for you

[29:17] right now, Mike Young. Let's turn to James Tutton.

[29:25] Mr. Tutton, you're on mute.

[29:33] Yes, good morning

[29:33] Chairman Danner and commissioners Randall and Dumont. Thank you for the opportunity to provide comments

[29:39] relative to cluttering's petition to extend the waivers from House of

[29:44] good tariff number 15c and certain provisions of WAC 485 granted in order to

[29:50] of this docket, TV 210535 until March 30th, 2023. I've got some comments.

[30:00] Once I'm going to be as common collected and as factual as I can be, and I say that with a smile in my voice.

[30:09] WAC 485, the House of Good Carriers, states in paragraph 485, 010, the purpose and application. It states these rules implement the policies of RCW 81.80.020 as they apply the House of Good Carriers.

[30:29] The rules establish standards for public safety, fair competitive practices just in reasonable

[30:35] charges, nondiscriminatory application of rates, adequate and dependable service, and

[30:42] consumer protection as well as compliance with statuettes, rules, and commission orders.

[30:49] This chapter applies to all interest rate household good carriers.

[30:54] The Washington Movers Conference strongly opposes this petition request.

[31:01] This petition was issued started back in July 2nd, 2021, when cluttering filed for exemptions

[31:11] from the UTC's Interstate House of Good Terror 15C.

[31:17] pluttering properly applied for, and received a provisional interest rate and also good operating authority,

[31:27] THG67494, and later permanent also good operating authority, HG67494, dropping the T temporary.

[31:36] By meeting all the requirements of WAC 485305 permanent authority, including satisfactorily completing a

[31:45] a provisional period of not less than six months,

[31:47] and not more than 18 months,

[31:50] from the date the provisional permit was issued.

[31:54] It is believed by the Washington Movers Conference

[31:58] that the Collitter Inc. petition was filed in response

[32:02] to a UTC investigation report of Collitter Inc.

[32:07] TV 200-432 dated February 2021.

[32:12] This investigation found violations of failing to charge the minimum tariff rate as required by tariff number 15c item 230 parent six.

[32:24] Failing to charge for the minimum hours as required by tariff number 15c item 230 parent seven.

[32:30] Failing to provide properly completed uniform household bills of waiting in accordance with WAC 480 15 s 710 and tariff number 15c item 95.

[32:41] Failing to completely and accurately complete estimated cost for services forms in accordance

[32:47] with WACC 480-15-630, and tariff number 15c item 85.

[32:55] Failing to properly understand the intent and guidelines of tariff number 15c item 102,

[33:05] which applies to small goods, transportation, and storage moves.

[33:11] Now let's all parties with an interest in this in this petitions submitted by

[33:17] clutter ink come to a simple agreement that commercial permanent storage of

[33:25] household goods in Washington state is not regulated. Cluttering is primarily a

[33:33] commercial storage provider as evidenced by their website but does have the

[33:38] opportunity through their household good operating authority, HG67494, to provide moving

[33:45] services within Washington State for consumers.

[33:50] Approximately 320 properly regulated household

[33:54] good carriers listed on the UTC website holding either a UTC provisional or permanent household

[34:00] good operating authority can in their primary business either providing interstate household

[34:07] also good movement services, provide storage services,

[34:10] either storage and transit, 90 days or less,

[34:13] permanent storage for periods of 91 days or longer,

[34:18] or small goods, transportation and storage

[34:21] at the customer's request in accordance

[34:24] with WACC 480, 15, and the UTC Interstate House

[34:28] of Good Terrace number 15C.

[34:31] The only commonality between clutter ink

[34:35] and interest rate regulated household good carriers is the transportation of

[34:41] household goods over the roads of Washington State.

[34:47] Clutter Inc. in their petition is asking the UTC to change to

[34:53] allow clutter to a bill one or more of the following charges in addition to their

[35:02] unregulated monthly storage fee, one, a flat fee for transportation, two, an hourly fee for

[35:11] labor based on the storage plan, and three, a flat rate per item. Again, they're asking these

[35:19] in addition to their unregulated monthly storage fee. To use 30 days to define permanent storage,

[35:26] as clutter ink is requesting instead of 91 or more days to build customers in

[35:34] actual time when hourly rate supply instead of 15-minute increments.

[35:41] Clutter ink claims their software allows for actual job time to be

[35:46] billed.

[35:49] They want the ability to charge no more than the maximum rate in

[35:54] in tariff number 15c item 230, but not have a minimum rate band.

[36:03] They want an exemption to the minimum charge of four hours for moving services performed

[36:09] before 8 a.m. and after 5 p.m. and moving services performed on Saturdays, Sundays or state-recognized

[36:17] holidays for work involving storage.

[36:20] Please note, this work outside of regular hours is only performed when requested by the

[36:28] consumer.

[36:33] They want the clutter wants to use the Commission's standard bill of lading for small goods

[36:37] transportation and services found in item 102 of the tariff and ask the Commission to begin

[36:45] a process of revising the interest rate, household good tariff 15c, so language can be updated

[36:53] to add flexibility needed, so an exemption would no longer be necessary.

[37:03] The WMC strongly believes there is no need to make changes to the current UTC published,

[37:11] Household Good Terrorist Number 15C to accommodate cluttering for the following reasons.

[37:19] Household Good Terror 15C is adequate and compliant with rules, rates, and charges

[37:24] to meet the needs of the consumer requesting interest rate Household Good moving services.

[37:32] The rates and charges contained in the UTC's published Household Good Terrorist Number 15C

[37:39] have been duly authenticated by UTC staff with input from users to be fair for consumers and

[37:48] compensatory for interest rate household good carriers. Charging below the minimum rate ban,

[37:56] for example, would allow for non-compensatory rates and the possibility of simply giving service

[38:06] As commercial storage rates are not regulated in Washington State except for storage and transit rates contained in the UTC House of Good Terror 15C,

[38:17] when such services requested by the consumer, it would be in the best interest for commercial storage provider to want low regulated rates for the regulated transportation services needed in states that regulate commercial or

[38:34] to regulate household good, interstate household good moving,

[38:38] to bring the consumers household goods

[38:39] into the commercial storage facility.

[38:43] Please note commission staff,

[38:45] because commercial storage rates

[38:47] are not regulated in Washington state,

[38:50] the commercial storage provider can charge

[38:52] whatever rate the market will bear for storage,

[38:57] to meet their business needs.

[38:59] Interstate household good carriers do not have

[39:02] that flexibility, or that luxury.

[39:09] It is the Washington Movers Conference believe,

[39:12] belief that cluttering is asking for these

[39:16] household good terror 15C changes due to violations

[39:20] identified in the UTC investigated report

[39:24] of cluttering solely to meet their business model,

[39:29] rather than change procedures and abide by the rules

[39:33] and rates established in the Interstate House of Good Terror, 15C, and rules contained within

[39:38] WAC-480-15. This docket TV-210-535 needs to be closed today. The exemptions curtailed and

[39:52] not extended for yet another three months. Regulated Interstate House of Good Carriers have looked

[40:00] on long enough, as one entity has been able to provide non-compensatory service through

[40:06] ridiculous and unneeded exemptions to House of good terror, number 15C.

[40:12] That concludes my comments.

[40:14] I thank you for your attention.

[40:18] All right.

[40:18] Thank you, Mr. Tatton.

[40:20] Commissioner, do you have any questions for James Tatton?

[40:24] No questions.

[40:25] I appreciate your comments.

[40:26] Okay.

[40:27] No questions.

[40:28] Just a quick point of inquiry, the decision we are making today is just relates to extension

[40:33] of the waivers, not the substantive question of whether the Chair of 15C will be modified.

[40:41] Is that correct, Mr. Chair?

[40:43] Yes, that is correct.

[40:44] This is a question further extension.

[40:47] Thank you.

[40:48] All right.

[40:50] Mr. Tutton, I don't have any questions for you either, but I'd ask you to hold on because

[40:54] because I think we're going to begin a discussion.

[40:56] Are we gonna hear from the company?

[40:58] We're gonna hear from Larry Nelson

[40:59] and then we will engage a little further.

[41:05] Certainly, I'm always available.

[41:07] All right, thank you.

[41:08] Let's go next to Larry Nelson.

[41:10] Good morning.

[41:12] Good morning, Larry Nelson from handsome brothers

[41:14] moving in storage.

[41:15] I'm also the current president

[41:17] of the Washington Movers Conference.

[41:19] And so I'd just like to make sure

[41:22] that everybody kind of realizes that you have over 300 other movers in the state that can do

[41:32] these services. We've been doing it for years legally by the tariff and then you have a depocketed

[41:40] company coming in. It was discovered in 2019 in one month, creative time. They had over 390

[41:54] violations where you probably could, I don't know,

[41:58] audit every other mover in the state for that month and not have that many violations combined.

[42:06] So they know the rules. They basically in our opinion, you know, and I'm just a simple mover,

[42:12] but thumb their nose at the rules and try and reinvent the tariff.

[42:17] And so if they're going to reinvent the tariff.

[42:19] But I want to know if there's simplification where now it's like half a page to explain

[42:27] how it works.

[42:28] Their limited warranty has three pages, which is over 1,300 words.

[42:36] The privacy policy is 10 pages, which is 3,892 words, and their terms of views is 18 pages,

[42:44] which is 7,549 words so a consumer would need to read 12,746 words to figure out their

[42:55] simple way of helping the consumer figure out what their services are when now the tariff

[43:02] is what a half a page. So a consumer can read a half a page and know what every other mover

[43:10] in the state is going to apply to their services needed, but for some reason, clutter needs thousands

[43:20] of words to explain just exactly how they're going to take care of the consumer. And so in that

[43:26] privacy, it explains how their privacy, it's not the consumer's privacy, it's how they're going

[43:33] to sell it to everybody and their brother. If you read that, they're going to track everything

[43:39] that happens with that consumer and then can sell it to anybody that wants it, that they can

[43:45] sell it to. And in the terms of the use, besides all the other things which you're too many to mention,

[43:54] one of them that really sticks out is, if their business model fails, they can dispose of everything

[44:00] and storage. Oh, they'll try and find the customer, but there's nothing in there that will

[44:07] penalize them if they don't. So, they'll just dispose of everything. So, if you're looking

[44:12] to protect the consumer, I'd suggest that so many takes the time to read all that and I still have

[44:19] not found anything in there that applies to directs anybody towards the UTC as far as any type of rules.

[44:30] So, I don't know, again, it's very frustrating that, I guess, part of it is just, since

[44:39] we're a mover, we have to apply for any little increase that we need, even though inflation

[44:44] is going crazy and our price of fuel is doubled and that sort of thing, so your own people,

[44:52] Well, hey, it was pretty, you know, we're not,

[44:54] we don't have a count on staff and, you know,

[44:58] people that specialize in...

[45:00] As in this, Jim does a great job of pointing out these things. But, you know, as far as pointing down to every nickel that we need, but your own staff said that we needed 12.1%. Okay, so we're still waiting. Do we get to 12.1% or do we have to wait months to figure out that your own people said that, you know, we should get 12.1. Well, in the meantime, that was back in June, I think.

[45:28] So, in the meantime, everything's gone up like 8%, so instead of back in when the tariff

[45:36] was revised three years ago, instead of getting the next year, you know, it went up 4%

[45:43] or, you know, the next year after that, it would be 3 points something or whatever.

[45:47] We have to wait two and a half years, and now it's three years since last, and then we

[45:55] still don't know if we have any increases. Did anybody's wages go up? Did anybody read the

[46:00] paper that, you know, everybody and their brothers on strike for more money, you know, it's

[46:05] worth competing with every other type of business to get the same driver, you know, and that's

[46:11] sort of thing. No matter what it is, bus drivers say you go on TV, $5,000 bonus adds on TV to get a bus

[46:20] Well, you don't see any movers advertising because we can't afford to do that.

[46:26] We can't, we don't even know if we can give them a raise because we don't know if we got a raise.

[46:30] So it would be kind of nice to just put a halt to it, say that, okay, you agree with your own people.

[46:36] We should get to 12.1% right now and be done with it.

[46:41] And then we'll turn around and file right now that we need another four or five percent because it's going to take another year or so to try and get that when we should have had it.

[46:50] like six months ago, you know, I've been in this business probably way too long. My family

[46:56] started in 1890. I've been in it 52 years and I think this is the most frustrated I've

[47:05] ever been. So maybe it's, you know, maybe I'm just getting too old or something, but it

[47:11] is pretty frustrating and I just hope that so many cakes of time to really see, you know,

[47:17] our needs of getting increases on a regular basis without us having to go through a huge process.

[47:24] And then on the other hand, looking at a company that has a huge amount of deep pockets coming

[47:34] in and trying to change things to their advantage, which no other mover in the state could even

[47:40] afford to do. So I appreciate your time and I'm sure you'll make the proper decision.

[47:48] All right, thank you very much, Larry Nelson. I appreciate the

[47:52] commissioners. Do you have any questions for Larry Nelson?

[47:56] No questions. Thank you, Mr. Nelson, for your testimony. No questions for me, I didn't think.

[48:01] All right, let me turn to Chad Stokes.

[48:10] Good morning, Chair Danner.

[48:13] My name is Chad Stokes, I represent Clutter.

[48:17] I think we've gone well beyond the severative matter addressed in Clutter's motion.

[48:22] Clutter is only asking for an extension of the exemptions that was previously granted for compliance with Terra 15C for moose and involved unregulated storage services for traditional household good moves.

[48:35] This clutter complies with Terra 15C.

[48:39] The Washington staff has started a rule-making process where they asked for comments.

[48:43] Washington members conference has been part of that, as Hanson brothers.

[48:50] In fact, part of the reason that the rule-making process is not completed is Washington members

[48:54] conference asked for an extension of time to respond to the staff inquiry.

[48:59] We think that the tariff 15C should be updated, we think that that would be in the public interest.

[49:08] But again, that's for the only exemption we're asking for are moves that involve unregulated storage services.

[49:16] So for traditional household goods moves, they cluttered complies with tariff 15C.

[49:23] I won't argue the motion again. Everything's in the motion, but I'm happy to answer questions.

[49:28] There are a couple comments about a complaint proceeding brought

[49:33] against Collette years ago that that matter has been resolved.

[49:37] It's been resolved a long time ago and they corrected their actions since then.

[49:42] So I don't think that's proper for for this morning.

[49:45] But I'm happy to answer any questions with that.

[49:48] So all right.

[49:51] Thank you.

[49:52] Commissioners, do you have any questions for chance folks?

[49:55] No, no questions.

[49:56] Thank you.

[49:57] No question, I do. There were three things that Larry Hansen raised. One was privacy issues that

[50:08] the company, the thing about an extension is obviously with the extension you continue to

[50:16] operate as we get these matters resolved. There is an issue of privacy and what are you doing

[50:22] selling private information.

[50:27] Can you speak to that?

[50:29] I'm not aware the clerk sells private information. I'm not sure what is referring to.

[50:35] I mean, I think he was referring to policies that they have that relate to unregulated

[50:42] services. And I'm not, I haven't reviewed a privacy policy for them, so.

[50:51] Okay. Then there was another issue that if there were some circumstances in which you could sell

[51:01] everything in storage without any kind of protection to the consumer. Well, the uniform commercial

[51:06] code covers all that. That's state state law. That's an accurate.

[51:13] And then your materials not

[51:16] of directing consumers to the UTC for resolution.

[51:20] Clotters operations as far as I know are compliant

[51:22] with Washington regulations.

[51:24] If you go to their website and you click in Clotters Seattle,

[51:29] you'll see the Washington Commission's information.

[51:32] We went through a complaint process

[51:34] and an audit process with staff and they reviewed it,

[51:38] reviewed Clotters information.

[51:40] We've been through that process.

[51:41] as we work with staff and we have resolved those issues.

[51:47] All right. Thank you. I have no further questions.

[51:56] So, commissioners, do you have any questions

[51:58] for? All right. Stephanie Chase from the Public Council unit. Do you like to speak?

[52:06] Yes. I apologize. It's been kind of a hectic week, so I didn't get my name into the record

[52:11] Center, but Chair Nanner and commissioners Randall and Doomit. My name is Stephanie Chase

[52:17] and I'm a regulatory analyst with Public Council. Nina Sutake is an attorney on this matter and

[52:25] unfortunately she was unable to be here today but asked me to deliver comments, just some brief

[52:32] comments about this matter, which is mainly that Public Council is supportive of the extension of

[52:37] the exemption as a procedural matter because the tariff 15C revisions are ongoing and we had

[52:45] previously offered comments in that docket and we look forward to reviewing staff's tariff draft

[52:51] when it becomes available. So include my comments there unless there are any questions.

[52:58] All right, let me see. Thank you. Commissioners, do you have any questions for public council?

[53:02] I have no questions. Thank you. No questions. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Is there anyone else on the call who wishes to speak to this matter?

[53:15] All right. Hearing none. Let me go back to Mike Young.

[53:21] I apologize. My name is Stephen Galbanyo. I'm the president of Airband Moving and Storage.

[53:29] And just sticking to the procedural matter, as the council says, this is outrageous.

[53:37] It's loud out outrageous that we have legitimate moving companies that file our reports that pay our taxes.

[53:46] that have mandatory increases in the minimum wage,

[53:52] various pickup and drop fees,

[53:54] everything else that these communities

[53:55] throughout the state of Washington require of us to do.

[54:00] So we like a bunch of small business idiots

[54:03] played by the rules.

[54:05] And we get caught up in procedural matters.

[54:10] One of the commissioners at the outset of this

[54:12] was assuring the gentleman about the water issue.

[54:15] So he couldn't guarantee rating increases because it is after all a very inflationary environment.

[54:23] I think it's just as a matter of equity that to treat established movers, family businesses

[54:33] have been forever paying people in the state of Washington forever, an extension of our misery

[54:40] just so you can bend yourself into a pretzel to try and accommodate this

[54:47] depocketed entity and I'm offended by it and I just want to go on record saying

[54:54] that there's no excuse for this extension there's no excuse for the combining of

[54:58] these issues we need a rate increasing we needed as Mr. Hanson said a long time ago

[55:04] that's

[55:07] the sum of my comments and I thank the commissioners for allowing me to speak

[55:11] Thank you. I did not catch your name, though. Could you repeat it for the record?

[55:16] Yes. My name is Steve Galvanya, G-A-L-V-A-G-N-O. I am the President of AirBam and Principal

[55:24] of AirBam Moving and Storage. All right. Thank you very much for your comments this morning.

[55:30] Thank you, sir. All right. Let me, I want to turn to Mike Young. I see that Chad Stokes has raised his

[55:40] I think there's a conflation of the rate increase issue with what clutter is asking for.

[55:50] I mean, there are two separate documents that were consolidated here.

[55:53] And staff asked for the traditional movers to provide rate information to justify a rate increase.

[56:01] And that's what you're hearing complaints about that.

[56:04] That has nothing to do with clutter's motion.

[56:06] So, I just want to make sure we're not mixing apples and oranges, clutter's not holding up

[56:11] that process. All right, thank you for that comment. Mike Young, I want to turn to you.

[56:18] You're hearing quite a bit this morning.

[56:23] There is

[56:27] the Washington Movers Council members are stressing the need for a rate increase.

[56:34] case, we do have this petition from clutter. I wonder if you wanted to comment on the things

[56:40] that you've heard this morning.

[56:43] Yes, thank you. First of all, I would like to point out that the commission did allow

[56:46] a temporary 12.1% increase in order to. And so the tariff pages had been revised back in

[56:53] June to reflect that. That was a temporary increase subject to the outcome of this review

[57:01] that we're doing in both of these dockets that have been combined, the other thing I would like

[57:06] to point out is that some of the requests in the clutter petition appeared to be beneficial

[57:11] to customers and therefore merit consideration for review of the tariff language and also some of

[57:18] the information that was requested relating to those issues were returned along with the financial

[57:25] data provided by Washington Movers Conference in October of this year. So we're still trying to

[57:30] to wait through some of that.

[57:32] And again, I apologize that there's been some staffing issues

[57:35] that if that's not the company's fault for sure,

[57:40] but we're doing the best that we can right now.

[57:43] All right, thank you very much.

[57:44] And I don't think you need to apologize to me for that.

[57:50] This is an extension that would last three months

[57:54] or earlier if the investigation can be completed before them.

[57:58] What is your best estimate?

[58:01] In talking with my colleagues in consumer protection, we're looking at hopefully the end of February.

[58:06] This would have to be brought back to an open meeting, both of these dockets.

[58:09] And to be able to wrap up all of those loose ends and to provide draft care of pages, things of that nature.

[58:16] We would need a little bit of time, but that's been the discussion so far.

[58:21] Okay. All right. Thank you.

[58:24] Commissioner, do you have questions for any of our commenters this morning?

[58:30] No, but I believe Mr. Tutton seems to want to speak again, think he raised his hand physically.

[58:38] Okay. So Jim, we'll get back to you in a second. Let me just ask if there's anyone else on the line who wishes to speak to this matter.

[58:49] Okay, not hearing anything. Jim, go ahead.

[58:52] I just wanted to comment on Mr. Young's comments about the 12.1 rating increase that was provided.

[59:02] was provided as part of this particular

[59:05] docket proceeding.

[59:07] And the pages have been issued to the parties

[59:12] on the tariff.

[59:17] I may be mistaken, but I haven't seen those pages.

[59:21] When this 12.1% increase was identified

[59:26] at one of the last open meetings,

[59:28] I had several discussions with a household good consumer folks on how

[59:39] movers were going to adopt the 12.1% increase. How they were going to

[59:46] document the household good tariff increase 12.1% on bills of

[59:50] lading estimated cost of services, for example, and they initially came up with a

[59:57] procedure that we

[1:00:00] Staff and myself. Finally agreed after several communications that that procedure was not right. And so they, I was told at that time that pages were not going to be distributed to the participants on House of the Terra 15C. They, they could just choose any rate. Between one, between zero and 12%.

[1:00:30] 12.1% as their increase as they discuss moving services with their with their

[1:00:38] potential customers. One rate in the tariff may it may receive a 6% increase.

[1:00:45] Another rate in the tariff may require and be presented as 12.1% but unless I'm

[1:00:53] unless I'm wrong and I could very easily be wrong. There's a lot of paperwork flying

[1:00:57] around. I have not seen any pages that amended the tariff 15c on a 12.1 percent rate increase.

[1:01:06] Thank you.

[1:01:09] All right. Now, of course, when you have a rate band, I don't know how you put a

[1:01:15] particular increase on paper unless you identify the band and then it's up to the company to choose

[1:01:23] where that goes. Do you want to comment on that?

[1:01:28] Yes, I've just been advised that the increase was put in as a supplement, a tariff supplement.

[1:01:34] So it's not a change to the actual tariff 15C itself. It's just an additional pages that would apply.

[1:01:42] And the effective date was made,

[1:01:46] May 27th of this year.

[1:01:49] Okay. Well, I just want to make sure that the companies are able to implement that increase and get the revenue they need.

[1:01:59] So if they have questions, I encourage them to work with staff and let's get this resolved as

[1:02:04] expeditiously as possible. There's some misunderstanding. So thank you. Lindsey Walden, I saw your hand go

[1:02:11] up and then go down. Did Mike answer the question?

[1:02:19] Yeah, I apologize. I did not mean to raise my hand.

[1:02:21] I apologize. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. Mike, commissioners, we have

[1:02:32] Here, a request for an extension of the waiver for another three months that would give staff more time to work on this docket.

[1:02:46] And you've heard a lot of issues around a lot of things today.

[1:02:55] My own feeling is that this is procedural matter. This is only going to be a few months. Let's

[1:03:00] let it

[1:03:04] go forward. This is not going to presuppose any outcome in the proceeding. It will come back

[1:03:09] to us. But I would be I take all of the comments we've received this morning very seriously.

[1:03:18] And those will be things that we're looking at. But I would let this go forward for the next three

[1:03:23] months. Let's grant the extension to ask Mike to work as quickly as he can, given the resources he

[1:03:28] has and his team has. But let's go forward today and I'd like to know your thoughts.

[1:03:38] Mr. Chair,

[1:03:39] I concur with your thoughts. We're on an arrow issue today. We've heard from Ray Lujo. I think

[1:03:45] what would be the upcoming discussion and I am hopeful that we have also cleared up the issue of the

[1:03:55] 12.1 percent up to 12.1 rate increase as well, so that's something.

[1:03:59] Thank you. My internet is unstable.

[1:04:05] Okay.

[1:04:06] Did you re-able to hear my comments, Mr. Chair?

[1:04:10] Possibly I concur with you. I concur with your thoughts. Thank you.

[1:04:12] Thank you. I'm sorry. My internet is unstable here.

[1:04:17] It flashed out for just a second and I apologize for that. Commissioner Reddaw.

[1:04:23] Thank you, Chair Danter, and I also concur in your thoughts.

[1:04:26] This is a procedural matter.

[1:04:27] I understand that there's a great amount of disagreement over the substance of this.

[1:04:32] That will come back to us.

[1:04:33] I'd like to make sure the staff have the time to evaluate this information that they've

[1:04:38] received and delve into all the details.

[1:04:40] We will discuss the merits, but I also agree, Chair Danter, that any issue with a 12.1 increase

[1:04:48] that we granted back in May should be resolved.

[1:04:51] So if there are questions, let's work on that

[1:04:53] and make sure that the companies have the ability

[1:04:55] and the flexibility that we've,

[1:04:57] I think we intended to give them in May.

[1:05:01] And so that's a side issue.

[1:05:03] So let's get that resolved with staff.

[1:05:05] But I support staff's recommendation in this matter

[1:05:10] and I'm happy to make a motion.

[1:05:12] All right. Before you do that, Mike Young,

[1:05:14] I just want to clarify that this really deals

[1:05:16] with small goods moves with storage. Is that correct? Yes, that's my understanding. Okay.

[1:05:24] Thank you. Yes, Commissioner, I would entertain a motion.

[1:05:28] Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait, can I ask a quick question? You... Sure.

[1:05:32] Chairman, Dana, you just mentioned that this issue applies only to small goods, transportation

[1:05:38] and storage? That's my understanding. No, no, no. This procedure applies to

[1:05:46] to all storage activities, commercial storage, which is unregulated, storage and transit,

[1:05:55] which is regulated by household goods care of 15C, and small goods transportation, as

[1:06:01] you mentioned, again regulated by household goods care of 15C.

[1:06:06] Not just small goods transportation, I want to make that clear.

[1:06:09] All right, thank you.

[1:06:10] Thank you for that clarification, because that's my understanding is this was pretty circumscribed.

[1:06:15] So, Chad Stokes, do you want to give me your review on this?

[1:06:19] Yes.

[1:06:20] So it is all moves that have to do with storage, so it's broader than just the small goods

[1:06:28] transportation storage, which is limited to a certain amount of items.

[1:06:32] This commission previously found that these exemptions were in the public interest and that

[1:06:36] it benefited customers.

[1:06:37] So we've gone through the process about why this commission has ruled that there's good

[1:06:43] caused to grant these exemptions under these circumstances. So we've already kind of

[1:06:47] been through this process, understand people are getting tired of this, but all those

[1:06:53] same factors apply today.

[1:06:55] All right. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Jim Tutton, for raising the issue. And thank

[1:06:59] you, Jim.

[1:07:01] I have another question on what was just mentioned by, by, by, by, by, like, like,

[1:07:07] clever inks represented.

[1:07:12] The rates are not just fair to the consumer.

[1:07:21] Regulatory procedures through RCWs and WACs within the state of Washington require not

[1:07:28] just the consumer be treated barely, but also the carrier, whether or not it's a

[1:07:39] to operate or they have to be in the consideration process as well so let's

[1:07:44] don't forget that. All right well that is that is always our understanding. So

[1:07:49] thank you for that. Again we have a proceeding before us that we need to

[1:07:55] resolve. Mr. Young has indicated that they're looking forward to completing

[1:08:00] that in the next few months. We'll bring it back to us in a lot of these

[1:08:04] issues that you have raised this morning will be part of that conversation. In

[1:08:09] Commissioner Rendall said I think it is important that we get nailed down if there are any issues

[1:08:15] that are keeping companies from implementing the rate increase that we authorized in May.

[1:08:19] Let's find out what those are and get those resolved. In the meantime, as I said, I think it doesn't

[1:08:26] change my position that I'm okay letting this go forward for another three months extension.

[1:08:31] I know that staff is working expeditiously. It will probably be less time than that.

[1:08:36] But with that, if my commission colleagues agree, I think I would entertain a motion

[1:08:43] at this point.

[1:08:44] Yes, and I will make the motion.

[1:08:46] This is on a procedural issue.

[1:08:47] This is not on merits, the merits, and for us, then we can make all of those arguments

[1:08:51] again.

[1:08:53] So at this point, I move that in Docket TV 210-535, that the commission issue and order granting

[1:09:01] an extension of waivers granted from Terra-15C and certain provisions of WAC-480-15 in order

[1:09:08] one of the stocket as requested in the motion filed by Clutter Inc. on November 29, 2022, until

[1:09:16] the earlier of March 31, 2023, the date the Commission ends the investigation into Terra-15C

[1:09:24] or the effective date of new rules or amendments to Terra-15C.

[1:09:32] All right, there has been a motion. It is seconded. The motion carries. So thank you. We will revisit this issue in in not much time. Very soon. So thank you all for your discussion this morning. It has been very informative.

[1:09:52] I think this brings us to the end of our agenda today.

[1:09:57] If there's nothing else to come before the commission,

[1:09:59] I wanna thank everybody for all the work

[1:10:02] that they have done over 2022.

[1:10:04] Thank you for everything you've done this year

[1:10:09] and I look forward to working with you next year

[1:10:11] and I wish you all the happiest of holidays.

[1:10:14] Be safe out there and we'll see you in 2023.

[1:10:18] So with that, we are adjourned.

[1:10:19] Thank you all.

[1:10:21] Thank you.

[1:10:22] Thank you.

UTC Open Meeting for December 22, 2022

Agenda

Transcript