[0:00] How are you? >> Hey, Ky.

[0:01] » Gerald won't be here. Do you know? >> Probably not.

[0:04] » I'll put this original on your desk. I forgot to

[0:06] » I'm going to make me a copy. Is that okay? Put this on your desk.

[0:09] » Thank you.

[0:13] » Thank you.

[0:25] » Thank you. >> Short agenda.

[0:27] » Sounds good.

[0:41] Come on down.

[0:46] No big not.

[0:51] » No.

[0:58] » Nope. Got tail in.

[1:04] Better shut my phone off. Oh, it's off.

[1:11] » Everyone, please turn your cell phones off.

[1:16] You're turned off, man. Off.

[1:22] Make can find the right button. >> All right, we'll go ahead and call the

[1:26] meeting to order. Mr. Floyd, would you lead us in the pledge? And I'll say a

[1:31] short prayer. >> Please stand.

[1:35] I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[1:40] republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty and

[1:47] justice for all. >> Heavenly Father, thank you for this

[1:51] beautiful day. Thank you for these many blessings you've given us. Lord God,

[1:58] watch over us and guide us through these proceedings and bless those who serve

[2:04] us. In his precious name we pray. Amen. >> Amen. [snorts]

[2:14] » All right. Need a motion to approve the minutes of last month's meeting.

[2:22] » I'll make that motion. >> Second.

[2:25] All those in favor say I. I. I. Thank you.

[2:29] All right, Mr. Floyd. Sure.

[2:37] August uh was pretty much an uneventful month, so

[2:43] we ain't got a lot on the agenda for today.

[2:46] Um, our deposits for August was $111,494.

[2:57] Total runs was 237. Breakdown of those runs are on that

[3:02] second page that I give you. And again, our uh uh ALS ALS runs far outnumbered

[3:10] the the BLS, which is more ALS runs we do, the the more

[3:19] billing we can get. Uh like I said, they're all broke down

[3:24] there. Like I said, total of 237. Uh finally got uh Keiesler

[3:33] Police Supply has finally got the ball running on those uh protective vests

[3:38] that we're going to be getting. Uh they have sent out a link

[3:44] uh to uh every full-time employee via their phone for a sizing app app that

[3:51] they can do. Um, like I said, they're going to be what they call an alpha

[3:56] sizing, which is a small, medium, large, extra large, 2X, or whatever. But they

[4:00] still need to put in their weight, their height, and do some measurements. Uh, do

[4:07] a virtual butler, so to speak. Uh, and then they will uh uh we'll get them

[4:15] ordered once them sizes get done. Um, I think we've had one girl that's not got

[4:21] her uh text message yet from them. So, I'll

[4:25] work on that today when I get back. Make sure everybody's make sure everybody's

[4:30] getting the the text message and has the app to do the sizing.

[4:36] Um, other than that, that's about all I've got today other

[4:42] than some some other business that uh I was going to ask about where we stand on

[4:48] the the uh the building process from the incident that we had

[4:57] month or so ago. I hadn't heard anything on it yet. So,

[5:01] » I I hadn't either, but apparently the uh they're waiting on the of course he's

[5:06] not going to he's not going to come in and uh go back and forth and make

[5:11] several trips. So, the waiting on the door. They had to order a new door, you

[5:16] know. We're going to eliminate >> side. Yeah.

[5:18] » Yeah. They're going to eliminate that double door and put a single security

[5:23] door in there. And that's uh then it it should be it's been long enough. It

[5:28] should be in uh about any day. So I I look for them probably start on that

[5:33] probably next week. >> Okay. And then uh um the issue with the

[5:39] ceiling tiles um um there's no point in putting new

[5:44] ceiling tiles in until they find the source of that leak where the uh the

[5:49] main part of the building. um butts up against that basically that end

[5:56] where the corner's uh office is and uh reception area is

[6:03] kind of like a lean to. So uh I think they said there's some flashing that

[6:09] might be causing the issue and uh he's got to do that before he puts ceiling

[6:15] tiles in. And then uh I believe that uh they're going to

[6:22] Sullivan's is going to put the new floor down on the 15th. So hopefully he'll

[6:27] have the door in and everything done before they uh rip that old nasty carpet

[6:34] up and fix the floor then. So

[6:40] » all right honey, >> it's

[6:41] » I knew that. Remember Kyrie told me it's with Sullivans they'd been this month. I

[6:45] couldn't remember the date she'd said. So,

[6:47] » yeah. >> So, just wanted to kind of get a

[6:52] » um then um they're going to of course they'll have

[6:59] to take all those filing cabinets out of the corner's office and and the desk

[7:08] and uh we'll have to put those somewhere out of

[7:13] the way. you know, maybe in the vicinity of that that cooler outside in in your

[7:19] area there just temporarily till the floor dries.

[7:24] So, [snorts]

[7:28] so you might you you guys might keep an eye out and and Mike going is going to

[7:34] him and Tony are going to move the furniture out

[7:38] um when Sullivan's gets gets ready to put the the floor down. So, uh which

[7:45] will be I assume be a couple three or 4 days before they actually do it. So, you

[7:52] might keep an eye out for them and make sure they

[7:56] put that stuff in an area that's not going to affect you or wouldn't be in

[8:00] the way for for a while.

[8:08] So, that's the update on that. Anything anything changes, I'll let you know.

[8:13] » Okay. Um, I do have a question. um your uh

[8:20] your drug certification and all that is is that all pretty much done or we

[8:27] » done with that. >> Yeah, I knew the certification was

[8:32] » what I meant to say was you're up and running as far as we're

[8:37] purchasing our own drugs. >> Yep.

[8:39] » Ourel and >> everything's been solution from Dr.

[8:43] Morgan's DA numbers. We done the inventory like we supposed to. Soon as

[8:47] Tony got the numbers, we done the inventory on it. Took the papers of Dr.

[8:51] Morgan, all the appropriate stuff for the DEA, transferred what was left in

[8:55] his name to our name, and then we actually placed our first order with the

[8:59] pharmacy yesterday, day four, yesterday. >> So he he won't actually be signing off

[9:05] on on that. It's strictly us more. >> No, it's us. [snorts] that gonna have

[9:11] any effect on the the prices, good, bad, or otherwise?

[9:18] » Not really. Not Not really. I mean, we can still purchase through St. Vincent,

[9:22] which we're going to. >> Okay.

[9:24] » So, we can still purchase through them. It's just we're purchasing through with

[9:28] us instead of >> in our name instead of Yes.

[9:31] » So, yeah, we can still purchase through them cuz that's about really where we

[9:36] can get our best prices at through them. And there might be some things sometimes

[9:41] where they may be running short of something. We can go through boundary or

[9:45] somebody else to get them. But uh >> yeah,

[9:47] » but uh other than that, yeah, we're still going to try to get everything

[9:51] through St. Vincent if we can. So all your uh

[9:57] your your supervisors, they're up to speed on the protocols for us handling

[10:04] our own drugs and everything. Okay. [clears throat]

[10:07] » Yep. Still a little bit of a learning curve,

[10:10] but they're they're all aware. They're all stay on top of it every day.

[10:19] » All right. Um had any communication with the hospital

[10:25] people lately? What's going on there? They uh

[10:32] causing any problems or having any concerns or heard

[10:38] » not heard much from from them. Really haven't.

[10:41] » Still do the emergency transfer. Occasion they'll call and need know want

[10:44] to know if we got a truck. So far the last three or four times we've had a

[10:47] truck available to do the emergency transfers.

[10:50] » This has happened four or five times a month probably

[10:53] » somewhere in that neighborhood. >> Yeah.

[10:59] » Contract with just takes them so long to get there. Some emergencies need to get

[11:03] out. So [snorts] they don't have an ambulance

[11:06] sitting there all the time. No >> place they contract with comes out of

[11:10] Clarksville. Is that right, Tony? >> They come out of Clarksville and if

[11:14] they're busy, they won't they can't get somebody there. Sometimes they got to

[11:17] wait for their first available truck to get there.

[11:21] » Use more than one. I mean, >> yeah. Um,

[11:25] now the only the only issue we've had was was a recent issue and I've not I've

[11:31] not had a chance to uh talk to who I need to talk to about it. But uh uh they

[11:37] are our supervising hospital. Uh every EMS agency has to have one unless you

[11:43] got a waiver. We don't have that waiver. So we have to have a supervising

[11:47] hospital. Uh so they are supervising hospital and any physician that works in

[11:55] that ER for that any given day is considered our medical control.

[12:02] Uh and uh there was a crew that ran into a situation

[12:07] uh and the uh doctor kind of in the ER kind of give him a little uh grief

[12:13] saying that uh we were putting him in a liability situation.

[12:19] » How how did you do that? >> That that's Well, it's through medical

[12:22] control questions. Uh we there's we go we sit here all day talking about that.

[12:30] But uh fact of the matter is when they're in that ER and they are working

[12:35] the ER, they are our medical control. Uh that is the way uh it's set up. It's the

[12:43] way that uh it's done through the supervising hospital. It's also done

[12:46] through our medical director, Dr. Morgan. So uh but uh it's just uh and

[12:52] it's a couple of doctors. It's not been over there that long. So So I'm going to

[12:58] have to talk with Dr. Morgan and I'm going to have to talk with the powers to

[13:02] be at the hospital about that situation and [snorts]

[13:05] and uh if not then we'll have to come up with another solution somehow or

[13:11] another. So, but other than that, that's the only issue that that I've been aware

[13:17] of that we've had with them. And like I said, it really wasn't with

[13:23] them. It was with the ER physician.

[13:29] Okay.

[13:39] Do they have a meeting coming up? A regularly scheduled meeting where you

[13:46] know when they normally would invite you just for a update on things or

[13:51] » Yeah. They have those er committee what they call er committee meetings. Uh they

[13:57] started out they was going to have them every month, but then they've changed

[14:00] it. Now they're having them like once every 90 days. Uh so uh I haven't gotten

[14:06] an email reminder of the one coming up cuz uh like I said, they've changed

[14:10] them. U so as soon as they do, then I'll forward that to somebody if somebody

[14:17] wants to set in on that, more than welcome to. Uh but I haven't I haven't

[14:22] gotten one yet. So, [clears throat] like I said, they were going to have it

[14:28] every 30 days and then they've kind of changed it to once every 3 months. So,

[14:41] » okay. Anybody have any questions for Tony?

[14:46] » Talk about this third ambulance. Tell me, tell me what you want, how we going

[14:50] to do this, and what we need to do as a board and how we going to fund it and

[14:56] all that. >> We got to start somewhere. Let's get it

[14:59] started. >> Well, county council's got to fund it,

[15:01] Tony. >> Well, okay.

[15:02] » That's that's it. I mean, that's [clears throat]

[15:04] » I mentioned about doing transfers transportations for the hospital, and I

[15:09] think we can maybe get part of them if that would help offset the cost. Well,

[15:14] the only thing is with transfers, you have to you have to you have to

[15:18] understand >> I'm understanding that, Mike. Yeah.

[15:20] » You have to understand that we don't make we don't make a lot of money on

[15:24] transfers, especially if it's Medicare, Medicaid. 237 bucks.

[15:29] » Okay, >> that's it. I mean, that that's not even

[15:32] going to pay if we go to Louisville. That's not even going to pay for the

[15:35] wear and tear on the truck, the cruise, the the maintenance.

[15:38] » That's why we're discussing that. The wear and tear on the trucks is about

[15:41] $5.67 67 cents a mile. >> Yep.

[15:44] » Yeah. So, I mean, >> the mileage we try to get on them right

[15:46] now. >> But anyway, I mean now, you know, they

[15:49] they're not they're they're not all won't be that way, but you know, the

[15:53] private insurance will be build at a different rate, be 400% above that that

[15:58] Medicare allowable rate, you know, and self-pays. And that's another issue uh

[16:05] we deal with is self-pays because with self-pays

[16:09] you're lucky if you can collect anything.

[16:13] Uh I mean it's just you know that's just the way it is now day. Well been that

[16:18] way for a long time but [clears throat] you know uh it's just you know people

[16:24] have a hard time you know if they have a medical thing it's it's expensive and

[16:28] I'm aware of that and I've been through that. Uh so I mean it but uh you know

[16:34] it's it's as far as reimbursement on doing transfers, we're not going to be

[16:42] looking at that much that much reimbursement.

[16:46] » Every little bit does add up. >> Well, the last one we done, last study

[16:50] we done when we was talking about transfers, we needed the hospital to

[16:54] reimburse us $300 per run just to break even. That

[16:58] » how long ago was that? Was there any price to go to

[17:02] » two years ago? >> Two, three.

[17:03] » Yeah. >> What was it then?

[17:05] » $300 of >> I mean, what what did they offer?

[17:09] » Uh, zero. >> Zero.

[17:10] » Zero. >> They didn't offer nothing

[17:12] » other than a fine if we wasn't there in 20 minutes.

[17:15] » Okay. >> I mean, we went we we talked with them

[17:17] for months. >> Uh, years.

[17:20] » Years. >> Yeah. Years. Uh Mhm.

[17:23] » And uh you know they they just wouldn't

[17:29] » people changes and policies change. >> Well, they they got different people

[17:32] over. They do have a different administration, but they still have the

[17:35] mothership they have to answer to. >> Uh

[17:41] you know, I don't have I didn't bring that folder with me because I didn't

[17:44] know he was going to discuss that. But you know, it's like Tony said, the

[17:47] council's got to come up with the money, >> right? When we presented this again last

[17:51] year with the budget, we put a packet together because everybody was worried

[17:55] about this Senate Bill one. Well, actually, Senate Bill One has some

[17:58] options in there. I don't know. I didn't pursue it any further, but we we pursued

[18:02] it far enough where township trustees can help fund this third truck. It's in

[18:08] there. It clearly states in there. They can help offset the run. That's why we

[18:12] done the run volume. We track how many runs we do in each township. We can do a

[18:17] break. We done a breakdown saying this is what each township would have to help

[18:21] with uh to help us break even. So that way the council wouldn't have to come up

[18:28] with all that money. Of course, Washington Township was the biggest

[18:33] draw >> would be the biggest draw because 56% of

[18:35] our runs are Washington Township and then it goes to Pope and then it goes to

[18:40] Pierce and then it goes to >> Jackson.

[18:44] » Uh no Jackson Brown. Brown, Vernon, Brown, and then Jackson and then Vernon

[18:49] and then Gibson and then Posey is kind of the breakdown. The last ones are

[18:54] Monroe and Jefferson of course and then Howard, which is Blue River, I believe.

[19:01] Uh that's the way the runs break down and we was able to say this is what each

[19:05] township and we had that in that packet. Senate Bill One. I'm not the lawyer and

[19:09] we told them that up front, but we gave them the option, showed them the law,

[19:12] showed them the law numbers and all that stuff where they could look at that.

[19:15] Now, I don't know, you know, we're not on the council. We just gave them that

[19:18] option. Here is something we've seen. It clearly states made some phone calls and

[19:23] they said, "Yes, that can be done that way." So, the township trustees, I still

[19:26] think can help reimburse to get that third truck to help out with those costs

[19:31] where the taxpayers wouldn't have to pay any more. Uh, and then Tony come up last

[19:37] year and the year before about EMS tax, a real small percentage. Tony's come up

[19:42] with that. We've not heard what people we talked to would be more than willing

[19:46] to help do that. So, I know it's a tax. I know

[19:53] » taxes. Yeah. >> 0.4%

[19:56] is what we could we could draw on. That's been that's been in effect since

[20:00] like 2023, something like that. I didn't bring my packing with me.

[20:04] » So, [snorts] I mean, that's I mean, [clears throat] the thing of it is to to

[20:09] substain down the future,

[20:14] something something's got to be done. [snorts]

[20:17] I mean, >> I'm on your side.

[20:19] » Yeah. I mean, I I I don't know. I mean, it's, you know, we just can't,

[20:26] you know, I mean, it seems like, you know, sometimes we take a brow

[20:31] beating at these budget hearings, but it's like, you know, that's that's it's

[20:36] all we can do. It's all we can present. >> Beat back.

[20:39] » Beat back. >> Well, we got beat up pretty hard last

[20:43] year and it was like, you know, we our numbers speak for themselves. Our

[20:46] numbers are consistent as hell. Since Tony and I have been together doing

[20:50] this, our numbers are consistent year in and year out. I mean, they're they're

[20:53] spot on. Our payroll numbers, Todd even goes, "Hey, can you make them numbers

[20:57] even a little tighter yet?" And we're we got them pretty tight this year we're on

[21:01] right now. We got our numbers pretty much right where they're going to be.

[21:05] Ain't going to be a whole lot left extra. But our budget, we we're

[21:10] consistent and that's what it takes to run an ambulance service. And then it's

[21:13] like Tony said, we get, you know, the day in day out to making sure we have

[21:17] trucks responding to our runs is getting to be hard without that third truck. It

[21:23] seems like they all happen at once. Like last night, we're running all night.

[21:26] Yesterday started what about 10:00 yesterday and it didn't stop until

[21:31] 8:15 this morning. >> So far as the township,

[21:36] I think that's a battle you probably won't win. just the fact of the state's

[21:42] trying to revamp all that. Anyway, >> I thought that was the revamping was

[21:46] Senate Bill One. I don't know. Like I said,

[21:48] » well, no, there's other legislation past that that's can't, you know, they're

[21:51] trying to merge merge townships and all that. So, the complexy or whatnot, when

[21:58] you combine all that, you're probably going to get a lot of push back on that.

[22:01] That's [snorts] just my opinion. So,

[22:13] Yeah, just like Tony said, somebody's got to come up with the money. That's

[22:17] what we need. >> And we gave that Tony passed that out

[22:21] during the budget hearings. This is what it takes to run another truck. You're

[22:25] looking at half a million dollars, give or take. If you go medic or if you go

[22:29] basic, a little under half a million, a little over half a million.

[22:33] [snorts] And so what like I know you got numbers, you're a number guy.

[22:39] If we was to start get a contract and do some of the hospitals, you know, I know

[22:45] you got factors that you ain't going to get paid for some and this and that. Is

[22:49] there any there that counteracted at all?

[22:52] » Yeah. You're still looking at and this was numbers from like Tony said two or

[22:55] three years ago when we done this. I don't know exact time frame, but you're

[22:59] still looking at a $250,000 shortfall if we put that third truck and a half a

[23:04] million. >> Yeah, but it's we got the 911s. We're

[23:08] emergent. We're emergency service >> and the problem was and

[23:13] » that takes precedence over >> take precedence over everything unless

[23:16] it's an emergency transfer >> and Todd and Bubba was on the board then

[23:20] and Philip I don't remember who else was on you wasn't on you. They come back and

[23:24] said well if you're not here in 20 minutes if you're going to do transfers

[23:26] we're going to find you I forgot what that number was and then find you some

[23:30] more for every 30 minutes you're late after that. So you're telling me that

[23:32] needs that clause just needs to be pushed out of the equation?

[23:38] » Mhm.

[23:41] » We can't guarantee that, >> right? We can't

[23:43] » I don't think nobody can. >> No way you can do that.

[23:46] » And I am under the understanding >> and I think they basically knew that you

[23:49] know I I you know they didn't want to work with us. They didn't Tony

[23:53] » I think they I think they are willing to now. Have you talked to people any

[23:57] » It's been six, eight months ago, but yes, I talked that they was going

[24:01] through uh trying to find somebody else to administrate the hospital and I

[24:05] talked to the the main one that was over all that. So,

[24:09] » you know, Donna, when Donna was there, I I Donna Donna was easy to talk to. She

[24:15] was uh I I didn't personally I didn't have an issue with her. I really didn't.

[24:21] Uh so, >> talk to Dane. Well,

[24:26] but uh uh [snorts]

[24:33] » that that preceded you all mentioning that third ambulance at that one time

[24:37] trying to find an avenue. >> Then you got the other cost of I just

[24:41] thought of this. Like I said, I ain't going bought those papers in front of

[24:43] me, but every two years you're going to put 80,000 mi on a truck for transfers.

[24:48] You're going to have to be replacing the truck every two to three years,

[24:51] » right? It was even proposed to them then about, hey, just buy us a truck every

[24:54] two or three years. Well, they didn't want to do that either because there's

[24:58] going to that's going to be another taxpayer dollar. You're going to wear

[25:00] out a truck. You're going to rack them miles up. It's an 80 just going to

[25:04] Floyd's a 80 mile round trip. You know, this is an 80 mile round trip.

[25:09] If you go to If you go south, it's 100 mile round trip.

[25:12] » And then also a lot of their transfers they do are the indie.

[25:16] » I Yes. And >> you know that's that's a that's taking a

[25:20] truck out of service for at least four hours,

[25:23] » right? I do understand that. >> You know, I mean, minimal

[25:26] » time to uh you know, by the time you get loaded, you get up there, you drop your

[25:31] patient off, you give a report, you turn around and come back, you know, you're

[25:37] you're tied at 4 hours. Uh all, you know, every run's situationally

[25:43] different, but you're tied at four hours. So um you know I mean right right

[25:50] now I mean right now we do the emergencies what we can uh and that's

[25:55] all we can do. I mean I mean we will go over there and we will take people back

[26:00] to the nursing home. We do that. Uh you know if we go and get them and bring

[26:06] them over here and you know if one of the trucks are sitting on station we'll

[26:11] go and take that run. It doesn't take us out of service that long, you know, 15

[26:16] minutes, you know, uh 15 to 20 minutes. So, I mean, we do those u

[26:23] but like I said, the revenue in in a in in a in a transfer is just not that

[26:28] high. Uh and like I said, uh Jeie with ABS can explain that a lot better to

[26:35] you. If you need to, you can call >> I understand. I'm just trying to find a

[26:39] carrot to dance on front of council to help me out here.

[26:43] » But that's what uh I mean that's what we're I mean right right now we we

[26:49] couldn't do we couldn't do anything without that without that third truck.

[26:53] We just we couldn't >> right. We just we don't have the we just

[26:56] don't uh you know it's just it's just u there be will you have problems if say a

[27:04] third truck does come on and finding have any staffing issues and all

[27:08] » I've got four people right now it's interested in full-time job.

[27:11] » Oh that's a plus ain't it? >> Yeah it is. You know I mean uh I mean I

[27:16] got four u so you know I mean >> but you need six right?

[27:21] » I would need six to put on third truck. Yeah, I'd have to hire have to come up

[27:25] with two more. But uh but I mean I've got I've got four that's you know is

[27:31] definitely interested in a full-time position. So um

[27:38] so it's just kind of

[27:42] you know one of them things. I mean, it's just we've talked about it and and

[27:46] we've we've uh seemed like every year it comes up and and uh all the time it

[27:52] comes up and and just uh

[28:10] do we have me and Tony, we have to make sure we have a truck responding. We have

[28:14] to make sure that one way or the other. We have to make sure we have somebody

[28:18] going to somebody that's needing us. >> Well, you guys have done a a good job uh

[28:25] with with what you've got to work with and I don't believe uh there's been any

[28:31] cases where you couldn't get to someone. you made it work with our mutual aid

[28:35] agreements uh which you have to uh utilize from time to time but

[28:42] done a real good job managing the crews um I think we have I mean you

[28:50] know with what we have to work with I mean uh you know it's difficult

[28:57] it is and uh it uh definitely is not He definitely is

[29:04] not easy.

[29:10] So, until the day comes where

[29:15] the rest of the county can uh council decides to, and I'm not blaming

[29:20] the council because it's >> no,

[29:23] » everybody everybody's aware that uh you know, it's going to take a half million

[29:27] dollars and a year. So,

[29:33] That's tough. So, >> it is.

[29:38] » And the uh the ambulance tax [clears throat]

[29:43] even even if we did enact that that would only bring in about half the

[29:48] amount, which be helpful, but I don't imagine there's anybody in

[29:53] county government that wants to raise taxes. So,

[30:00] Here we are.

[30:06] All right. Anybody have anything else? Bubba, do you have anything?

[30:09] » Nope.

[30:12] » Well, keep up the good work.

[30:17] Thank you guys. Motion to adjourn. >> Did you have anything, Nate? I know

[30:22] sometimes you do. >> I do.

[30:25] [clears throat] And it's like convenient that every time I've not been on the

[30:30] agenda and been here, you given me the opportunity to speak, Todd, but this

[30:34] time you're not. So, it's kind of ironic in my opinion. Uh,

[30:40] in light of the last meeting, it's why I'm here because there was information

[30:44] that was given that was inaccurate and I'm here to clarify that inaccurate. Uh

[30:49] Todd made the comment that all mutual aid agreements outside of here with the

[30:53] outlying agencies is ALS and ALS only that provide the ALS ambulance.

[30:59] I have made contact and have that documentation that that's not what those

[31:03] agreements say. >> You've got them with you.

[31:06] » I can pull it up on the phone if you'd like to see. But I'm pretty sure that

[31:09] Tony and them can contest to that as well. I speak I spoke to your primary

[31:14] who you said which was Harrison County which is Jeremy McKim. spoke to him

[31:18] personally because I know him very well >> and he sent me that agreement and

[31:22] nowhere in there does it say that they will provide you an ALS ambulance or

[31:27] nothing else. He simply and said that he cannot guarantee sending you an a

[31:33] paramedic ALS ambulance. So no way would he agree to that because it's not

[31:38] guaranteed. If you want an ambulance, you get what you get whether it be a

[31:43] basic, whether it be LS, whatever. So,

[31:48] » okay. >> Still don't understand your reasoning as

[31:50] to wanting us to be ALS to assist the county in a situation of need. So, but

[31:59] no, no outside agency outside of this county has a mutual aid agreement

[32:04] stating they will only provide to this county ALS ambulance.

[32:09] » Yeah, I'll let I'll let Tony answer that. My imp

[32:14] my understanding was it was assumed even though it's not written in there

[32:18] specifically that most of the time generally speaking you will be getting

[32:23] an ALS but that's not always the case. You're right and uh that's just the way

[32:29] it is. It just depends on um when we need mutual aid depends on

[32:35] how busy they are. So lot of lot of factors in involved. Tony, you got

[32:40] anything to say in that response? >> No, other than fact, you know, I you

[32:44] know, I told you again I'd misspoke on that and that's that's what it's

[32:47] preferred. I mean, it's it's preferred as an ALS. You don't know. I'm fully

[32:52] aware, Nate, that you're you're going to get what you're going to get. Uh you

[32:56] know, whether that's a BLS or ALS or or whatever. Uh mutual aid agreements that

[33:02] basically mutual aid agreement. Here's what a mutual aid agreement consists of.

[33:07] It consists of basically that the responding agency will not bill the

[33:13] referring agency. So that that's that's that's it. That's

[33:17] it in a nutshell. I mean, it doesn't you don't really go through, you know, but

[33:22] it's preferred. It's preferred an ALS truck. I think there's not a a director

[33:27] or an agency around that wouldn't prefer an ALS ambulance.

[33:31] » I'm not saying BLS BLS BLS is BLS. They're well capable of providing

[33:38] life-saving care. That's not an issue with me. I've never had an issue. I've

[33:42] never had an issue down there with you guys that what I've heard about, but it

[33:46] seems like I hear something about every 30 days that something and I don't I

[33:50] don't know where all this is coming from. But I'm getting frankly I'm

[33:53] getting little I'm getting a little tired of it. I really am. I mean, you

[33:58] know, we we try to support everybody we can support and and we do. I mean, I

[34:03] don't have a pro I do not have a problem with Jackson Township Fire Department. I

[34:08] don't. You came up to my office the one time and and when you had a problem with

[34:14] Mike and we sat in there and and and basically we tried to do it and then

[34:19] I've not really seen much out of you since that time. Uh but uh you know, I

[34:24] mean I don't have a pro I don't have a

[34:28] problem. I don't have a problem there. So let let's make sure let's make that

[34:32] perfectly clear. I don't have a problem. You know, I mean like I said, you know,

[34:39] mutual aid is mutual aid. And I said I have said for years and I have said this

[34:44] and I've said this to this board and I've said it to everybody else that I've

[34:48] talked to. Mutual aid, you can't depend on mutual aid.

[34:53] You can't because of the fact that if we call for somebody,

[34:58] we might not get nobody. And that's that's all surrounding counties.

[35:04] Jackson, that's Harrison, whoever. I mean, it may not may not be. Well, you

[35:10] guys, we may, you know, the other day there was a request or something and

[35:16] there was only one person on the truck, right?

[35:19] » Mhm. So, you know, I mean that that's that's you know, it's

[35:25] waiting on a a mutual aid thing is just that it's just in case of an emergency

[35:30] situation that is not going to solve our problem. That's like putting a freaking

[35:35] band-aid on an amputation. It's not. And I have said that forever and I'm not

[35:41] going to say anymore about it because I I I'm I'm I'm I'm

[35:46] over it. It it's not I mean it it it it I if we have it, we have it and we will

[35:53] use it. If we got it, but if they're not available, they're not going to be

[35:57] available. And and that and that's just it. Whether it's ALS, BLS, that's a

[36:01] minute fact. It is. It's minute. >> And we understand if people ain't

[36:06] available because we do we rarely get a help out other counties for standbys,

[36:11] but we just done one for Orange County and had to pull away within 10 minutes

[36:14] because all of a sudden our radio started going off. So there they are

[36:18] sitting Washington County was, but they 10 minutes later they're not.

[36:21] » Yeah, like I said, you count on it. >> You you could have 10 trucks and you'd

[36:25] need 12. >> You know, it's just the nature of this

[36:28] beast of this business. And a lot of people don't understand it. They don't.

[36:32] But, you know, like I said, we try to do what we can. And and you know, it's

[36:37] just, you know, do we heavily depend on mutual aid? Yes, we do. But there's, you

[36:44] know, a lot of times we can't get it. So, like I said, that's that's not the

[36:48] ant that's not the answer to our ongoing pro problem with with coverage. It's not

[36:54] » that's why we're asking >> something has something has to change.

[36:58] Something does. >> Yeah, I fully understand that. I do. But

[37:05] what I don't understand why we don't have a mutual aid agreement with them if

[37:10] they got an ambulance service. I ain't asking for them to pick up the slack on

[37:15] you guys. That's not what there that way. We have an agreement with them in

[37:18] an emergency situation. I'd rather see Nate's face standing over

[37:23] top of me giving me CPR than nobody at all. And that that's just bottom line.

[37:29] » I understand that. So, it ain't nothing hacking on you guys as a service or

[37:34] nothing like that. It's just the opposite. I'm I'm I'm acknowledging that

[37:39] you all need help. I'm I'll be the first one to tell you that we all need help.

[37:44] And it's not me coming here attacking you, Tony. Uh we we've had a good

[37:48] working relationship for many, many not attack at Washington County EMS service

[37:52] in general. Period. Everybody needs help. Every volunteer fire department in

[37:56] this county needs help at times. You just said it. If you if you have 10

[38:00] ambulances, you need 12. It doesn't matter if you put on this third truck

[38:04] full time. It's not going to matter because you're going to need that fourth

[38:06] truck. You're going to need help no matter what at some point. And that's

[38:11] all we're looking to do is to help and assist. And I don't for the likes of me

[38:17] understand when somebody's willing to give you the assistance and help, you

[38:23] slap their hand and tell them no. I can't for the life of me. When lives

[38:28] are at stake, understand why you tell no to somebody for help. Now, on the

[38:33] incident that happened the other day where we only sent one individual, we

[38:37] were requested by Mike because it was an unknown amount of time for the on call

[38:43] truck to come down there. He requested us in case because of the situation of

[38:47] the call for us to bring our ambulance. I radioed him personally and said, "I am

[38:53] the only one that can bring it. We can transport together. we can figure it

[38:57] out. He confirmed that and said, "We'll see what we got when we get there. We'll

[39:01] figure it out." It ended up being SO. We didn't even transport. Just a couple

[39:06] days prior to that, he called us for assistance with our ambulance to Mount

[39:10] Carmel Road for a structure fire that they had because they were transporting

[39:13] individuals. We came, we were available, we came, we stood by with might. Our box

[39:21] was there in case you had to transport somebody, provide care to people that

[39:25] were overexhausted. We did everything we had to do. We're here to help. That's

[39:31] what we're trying to do. We want the permission because it says in the

[39:34] ordinance. Listen, at the end of the day, and Tony has said it many times as

[39:38] well, at the end of the day, your ordinance to

[39:41] me when it comes to patient care means nothing. If somebody needs to get to the

[39:45] hospital and there's not an ambulance coming and I have that ability, it can

[39:49] be recorded. I'm going to violate your ordinance and I will transport

[39:52] » and I appreciate that >> 100%. Because the patient that's laying

[39:55] there doesn't deserve to delay that care. Now, is that all the time? No,

[39:59] it's not. You guys are pretty good about coming. You very rarely have to call

[40:03] that outside agencies so on and so forth. But when the stars align, it

[40:07] happens. Just like when the stars align, Jackson Township's not going to be

[40:10] available. Okay? Here's Pope's not going to be

[40:13] available. volunteer departments are not going to

[40:17] do everything. But when it does matter and we are

[40:21] available and we can, we shouldn't be told no.

[40:26] Regardless of an ordinance, regardless of a pastime, regardless of anything

[40:30] other than the people in the community that need the support to get to a

[40:34] facility to provide higher level of care in a timely fashion

[40:40] doesn't matter. Like you said, Tony, it doesn't matter ALS, BLS, doesn't matter.

[40:44] the justice of that patient that's called 911 needing to get to the

[40:48] hospital [snorts] and we're so I I I would just

[40:53] like to know what because we we went down these rabbit holes of we didn't

[40:57] have the proper insurance and now we're not ALS and then you know it's it's

[41:00] always a new hoop but we're not really getting down to the actual

[41:05] facts of why you don't want Jackson Township to assist and help when needed.

[41:10] » That's never been said. It hasn't been said, but it's been implied.

[41:14] » No, >> that's implied. When you say you don't

[41:16] have enough insurance, >> we do that. You tell us no. And then,

[41:20] okay, we did that. Oh, well, you're not ALS and only ALS matters.

[41:25] » And then I, you know, you continue to say no. Then I don't know why. I I don't

[41:31] » might have a little bit to do with your attitude.

[41:34] » I you can understand my rightfulness for attitude because I'm thinking about the

[41:38] people of my township that are around. What about the drugs?

[41:43] » Where do you drugs? >> Where do you buy your drugs?

[41:46] » We are only allowed to do what we can do for the state of Indiana. We don't

[41:49] require us to have drugs. >> Yeah, they're BLS right now.

[41:53] » We're BLS transport service. >> I don't but you

[41:56] » maybe EPI be about the only thing. Maybe >> maybe

[41:59] » but if if you're even if you're only BLS, you still have to administer some

[42:06] drugs. Am I not right? We can we can administer some things but that's still

[42:11] that we can get that just like you guys used to through Dr. Morgan through

[42:15] medical control. >> Is that where you're signs off for us?

[42:20] [snorts] >> Okay.

[42:22] » Just a little study I done just kind of getting off the heated part. The last

[42:28] time we done a study on it in a two-month time frame, 60 days, we

[42:32] requested surrounding counties for standby 106 times in 60 days. That was

[42:38] the last study we done about a little over a year ago.

[42:42] Just kind of give you an idea of why third truck is needed because this all

[42:47] stems back around to >> Oh, I 100% agree with you. Third truck

[42:51] needed if you live down in the neck of the woods. I do.

[42:55] » It boils down. >> You'd fully understand it.

[42:57] » I you know, I'd like to have satellite stations.

[43:00] » Bingo. That That's one step at a time, but bingo.

[43:03] » But the money's not there to do that. >> Mhm. I mean there's it's not and that's

[43:08] not my fault, >> you know. It's not

[43:11] » blaming you guys. That's the thing. >> Well, that's the comes at the end of the

[43:14] day. >> The two of us need to make sure somebody

[43:17] is responding to that scene. >> Yeah.

[43:20] » But you know, whatever that means. >> Hell, I'd love to have a station in

[43:23] Peton. I'd love to have station down around Hardensburg, Campbellburg,

[43:29] you know, but you know, it it's with, like I said,

[43:36] with without the without the the proper funding,

[43:43] my hands are tied. There's not a lot I can do. Well, I I see Jackson Township's

[43:48] Ambulance Service, I know you guys might see it a different way, as a tool that

[43:52] we can use as needed. And [snorts] if it takes an agreement

[43:57] for us to make up a mutual aid agreement for them to be able to do such for us to

[44:02] dispatch them out or whatever, request their assistance, that that's

[44:08] » that's beyond me. >> That's somebody else's.

[44:11] » I'm still request, but it still boils down to

[44:16] And we just had that conversation. Mutual aid is not always available.

[44:21] » That's fine. But when they are >> and when they are, I'm trying to use

[44:25] them when we need them. >> Yeah.

[44:26] » But >> And when mutual aid is requested and

[44:29] there's nobody, what do we do? >> Runs stack up. We'll get to it when we

[44:35] can. >> Right.

[44:36] » Well, fortunately, since I've been doing the job I'm doing right now, that's not

[44:40] really happened other than once. And when the two that stacked up was one was

[44:43] a stump toe and the other had a toothache.

[44:45] » But they stack up. >> But they did stack up. Those got

[44:48] » possibility. >> Then those got triaged out and circled

[44:50] to the back of the call. >> That's that's the only time I can I can

[44:54] ever remember since I've been doing this the last five and a half, six years is

[44:58] that one time that they did stack up. >> But we can go in the same realm here by

[45:01] saying that mutual aid service is unreliable. You don't you don't know

[45:05] what. So it's the same thing could be that on a daily basis you don't have

[45:08] enough ambulances and nobody's around to provide that coverage it runs stack up.

[45:12] It's possibility. >> I don't I don't like using the word

[45:15] unreliable. It's >> Yeah, they're not available. They're not

[45:19] available. >> They're they're not available. We can't

[45:22] count on them. This is an ambulance board meeting and

[45:25] we're trying to explain to them what we're needing to make sure the people in

[45:29] the county are covered. It's not a this ain't a

[45:34] fire department meeting. This is EMS. We're trying to explain what we need and

[45:38] what we need to take care of our [snorts] people. That's what this is

[45:41] about. >> As as far as using you guys, I will

[45:43] continue. Tony's even told me use them when we have to and we try to.

[45:47] » Sure. >> But you know,

[45:50] » but this is also this is also a this also helps your cost

[45:58] » of an additional ambulance. It also helps your cause because needing the

[46:01] assistance of outside agencies that that that that could help your

[46:06] cause with this additional ambulance because then it would potentially lessen

[46:11] the use of outside agencies. But there's still going to be that time

[46:16] where like I said, you have three ambulances, you're going to need four.

[46:19] And and Harrison County is not going to be able to help you. Scott County is not

[46:23] either. Jackson's not either. It's just the stars are going to align. what's

[46:27] going to happen, you know, and then lo and behold, here's, you know, maybe

[46:32] Jackson Township down south has somebody available

[46:37] like we did the other day. And there's going to be times where

[46:40] we're >> well what you want is a mutual aid

[46:42] agreement which would be beneficial to everyone that then uh we're going to

[46:47] leave that up to the decision of the director and the assistant deputy

[46:51] director for guidance and uh they come to us with with this then uh we'll

[46:59] strongly uh consider it and and go from there. But it's their call.

[47:04] » Y'all against that? I mean you're calling him anyway, right?

[47:08] » Yeah. Put it on paper. Let's get it over with. I'm not against it.

[47:11] » No, I'm not. Don't call me out. I've told I've sat here many of times, Tony,

[47:16] and said, "I [clears throat] support every one of these volunteer."

[47:18] » Oh, good. I'm That's what I'm asking. >> Yeah.

[47:21] » Wait, wait, we're beating up. >> I always have and I always will. I'm a

[47:25] volunteer fireman at heart. 42 years worth. I support every one of these

[47:29] guys. I appreciate their help every time they turn around.

[47:31] » I didn't mean to put say that, but >> we support them. Tony supports them.

[47:35] Well, I mean, we need that third truck. It's coming down. We need that third

[47:40] truck. I know money is the issue. Using them is still not the solve all endall

[47:44] as Tony just said, >> and we I 100% understand that. That's

[47:48] not what the the endgame goal here is. >> Well, now I understand, but we're still

[47:53] in that same predicament. And I'm sure they

[47:57] » will we'll consider this and like I say, it's it's their call, but with their

[48:01] recommendation, we'll make the decision. But uh

[48:06] » and if you come to this decision of accepting it uh can we would please

[48:11] request that it be in writing. >> All my

[48:14] » it has to be in writing. I'm not verbal just here. Say

[48:19] » come shake my hand. >> It would be it would be a mutual aid

[48:23] agreement everybody'd have to sign. You'd have to show your proof of

[48:27] insurance and so on so forth and all your certifications

[48:32] and all that. Well, you know all about that, so

[48:34] » I do. >> Well, good discussion. Thank you. Um,

[48:41] » Bobby, do you have anything to add to that?

[48:44] » Well, I mean, we know it's a problem, uh, financially and from the financial

[48:50] standpoint of it. Uh, you know, we've we've threw this thing against the wall

[48:56] for several years now and >> watch it sliding down every time.

[49:00] » Well, we haven't had, you know, you can bring me a problem, but also

[49:05] bring me a solution. And nobody's been able to bring the solution of how we

[49:10] fund it. Um, and that's the primary issue here. We have a huge county.

[49:19] Coverage is the problem, but you know, the money is just not there. And you

[49:26] know, until we get to that point, I don't know that [clears throat]

[49:31] um you know, financially we can add a third truck. That's that's just where

[49:38] we're at. And that's not the only way that I could see that happening is we

[49:43] would have to pass some kind of public safety tax to help fund it. Um,

[49:50] » and that's that would be half >> and that that would not go over well

[49:53] with the taxpayer. >> But when we get ready to present that,

[49:57] if you want to present that, we'll let you present it. I mean, I you know, I

[50:02] it's just we've we've looked at this for several years and

[50:08] » that's why I was proposing the runs for or the trans. We're in a we're in a

[50:13] strange situation here with with our county. You know, third largest county

[50:18] in Indiana. Uh I think we've got the most miles of roads of all the counties

[50:24] in Indiana. So that puts us in a unique position. Um and I understand there and

[50:31] we've talked about it. Um, but you know, like I said, until we find that money or

[50:38] one of these trees out here on the lawn starts producing dollar bills, you know,

[50:42] it's it's it's a tough animal to to handle financially

[50:47] and and you see what it costs. You were in budget hearings. I mean, it cost us a

[50:52] lot of money now, but we're going to continue to do what we can do and do the

[50:57] best we can and these guys have done a great job with that. And that's just

[51:01] that's just my thoughts on it right now as far as that goes.

[51:05] » And I applaud you guys for a good job. You all came a long ways. I know how

[51:10] many years have y'all actually we've had our service back since 2014 is when it

[51:16] went back to the county. >> So I was at the hospital prior it was at

[51:20] the hospital and it was three years with Knox County. That's that's I mean since

[51:25] Knox County it's been 14 >> 14

[51:28] » 2014 is when the county took it back over

[51:32] » but 12 years. >> Yeah.

[51:35] » Like I said prior to that, you know, it was at the hospital since it had went it

[51:40] was a private service up until like 1982 and then it went to the hospital. Uh and

[51:46] then that's when this uh all this other, you know, went to the hospital. like I

[51:53] said that 83 uh and uh and and then the hospital had it up until 2010 when St.

[51:59] event come in said we don't want animal service no more county commissioners you

[52:03] all deal with it and that's what they did and uh and they

[52:09] they didn't I mean that that back then was an absolute circle jerk and I will

[52:14] call it that because that's what it was and uh [snorts] that really offended me

[52:18] cuz I'd worked over there for almost 29 years and uh you know they just one

[52:24] night just decide hey you're done get the hell out and that's what they kicked

[52:29] us out of midnight, >> you know. So, I said that was, you know,

[52:31] that was a very bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths. And uh it's been a

[52:38] problem. It's been issues ever since, you know. I mean, when we were

[52:43] hospitalbased, I mean, we didn't have the the problems, you know, that all the

[52:48] stuff. I mean, if we were still hospital based, we wouldn't had to go through all

[52:50] this all this stuff with the DEA and all that cuz the hospital-based services

[52:55] don't have to do that. private, you know, other cert, you know, nonhospbased

[53:00] services, they got to do it. The hospital base don't. So, uh, but, you

[53:06] know, it's just, it's just one of them things. And, and one thing you got to

[53:10] look at, you can't heavily depend on on a transfer scenario for a third truck

[53:18] concept because if you do, we're going right back to where we was. Because if

[53:23] that truck is out of service, we're right back to two trucks again.

[53:28] » Yeah. And I understand back to that. I mean, that's why I ask you, we're not

[53:32] gaining nothing. I mean, we're really not. And and and like I said, the

[53:36] reimbursement side of things on a transfer,

[53:40] » we ain't making no money on them. We're actually losing money. And and you know,

[53:44] you don't want to you don't want to do that. and and and you know it's

[53:50] you know say it's I mean I live I live here I have my

[53:57] whole life and it it

[54:03] when they've got a transfer over there and we can't do it that haunts me every

[54:10] freaking damn day it does because I sit there and think you know I wish there

[54:16] was something I could do, but you know, we can't do it. We we ain't we ain't got

[54:21] the we ain't got the trucks to do it do that with. We don't have the operational

[54:26] stuff to do that with. And it does. And it it's uh it's it's taking a it's

[54:32] taking a toll. And uh it's uh it's getting to a point where, you know,

[54:39] something something's got to get in the works. Something something's got to

[54:43] something's got something's got to jive. Something's got to get in the works and

[54:47] uh that's what we're going to have to do. But that uh

[54:55] Okay.

[55:01] » Here to help. >> Good discussion.

[55:04] All right. I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn.

[55:07] » I'll make that motion to adjurnn. >> Second.

[55:10] » All those in favor say I. I. >> I. Thank you.

[55:19] Okay,

[55:24] speaking of Any cost?

2026-09-03 Ambulance Meeting

Transcript