[0:00] For our work session.

[0:03] Okay. Welcome for our work

[0:10] session tonight. It is the August 18th. We're here at 630 with the joint work session with the city council and funding commission.

[0:22] Excuse council member Butterfield and commissioner America.

[0:31] We have Alan Maylon in the public in the other.

[0:39] Anyway, go ahead, Dwight.

[0:42] All right, so we are here tonight to continue the discussion on detach APU.

[0:47] Just for reference, the state co-changes here requiring the cities of our size and location

[0:53] are required to adopt for the first land use ordinances that would allow anyone on a lot of the least 11,000 square feet to have a detect

[1:02] you under the regulations that the city says in terms of size and height and setbacks and a variety of other matters.

[1:11] We can't set whatever we want. There are limitations to parking regulations really can put in place a few other things like that.

[1:18] But in general, the city has the opportunity to craft

[1:21] the DEPC in New Orleans as it seems to be the best community.

[1:27] We held a work session a couple of months ago

[1:29] with the City Council Planning Commission

[1:31] at the Pierre Duce's topic since the planning mission

[1:33] has worked very hard and very meticulously

[1:36] on coming up with draft regulations.

[1:40] And we haven't put them into text yet.

[1:42] That will come lightly after this meeting

[1:45] for the chronic mission to look at their next meeting.

[1:49] And then they will, I think,

[1:50] move fairly quickly on public care and recommendation.

[1:53] So the City Council has time to adopt

[1:55] and hold this by October 1st.

[1:58] It would not shock me if it's something in late September

[2:01] we had to call a special meeting or two

[2:03] if we are under the wire to get this done.

[2:06] So it's up there for everyone.

[2:09] In several reasons.

[2:11] Yeah, in late September.

[2:13] You're last meeting scheduled for the month of September is a 15.

[2:18] Yeah, but you have a 5-2 set of the 29th if you need to have a...

[2:23] Yeah, it's a 5-2.

[2:24] It's a 5-2.

[2:26] Maybe we should go in.

[2:29] Maybe you trust us to have it all done by the 15th.

[2:31] I do, I do.

[2:33] But the 8th of the new best in pass is a 15th.

[2:35] Totally, super out of it.

[2:37] Leave you trust that.

[2:38] Uh-huh.

[2:40] We'll see how this takes place.

[2:41] I am going to run through some of the draft regulations

[2:44] that the blind viewers just talked about so far.

[2:46] I want to make clear that I would consider

[2:49] A, B's a recommendation yet.

[2:51] These are just items that they've worked on so far,

[2:53] a working draft.

[2:55] They may feel like they're recommendations with the splinters,

[2:57] but somebody goes from the side.

[2:59] The reason they're here is so that they can see for themselves

[3:02] and not alone on me.

[3:03] I just think they're going to go from there.

[3:06] Well, you've just haven't been there for most of the years.

[3:08] So you don't know why I didn't reach them.

[3:11] I'm usually the backless thing.

[3:12] You just don't know that I'm here.

[3:13] You need to get away.

[3:19] Included with the Middle Oak is on the entrance that we put together

[3:23] to help some care.

[3:24] Some of these regulations, what other cities have looked at

[3:27] and you can look at that if you need to.

[3:28] But I already know a little very quickly.

[3:30] So on minimum lots of us, the state requirement is 11,000 square feet, so far the planning

[3:35] commission has been working on a recommendation for 10,000 square feet.

[3:39] So that would essentially make it a fair or a level thing around for everyone in the

[3:45] our region and zone. Otherwise you'd have some people in our region and zone that would qualify

[3:50] and others that would express an idea that they would look at so far. On the parking, so far they have

[3:56] looked at just before in one additional space.

[4:00] I will note that state law does allow the city's required

[4:03] two additional spaces to hit the ADU reaches

[4:06] above 650 square feet.

[4:08] So it's something to be able to look at.

[4:10] Right now, the recommendation is one,

[4:11] we can go size two for a larger ADU.

[4:16] On maximum size and minimum size,

[4:19] the planning commission so far is prepared to not make

[4:23] a recommendation or not create a regulation

[4:25] on how big or small a detache is to be.

[4:30] Again, staff as they look at other cities,

[4:34] most other cities do have at least an in-home size.

[4:38] Some cities have recommendations on the D.A.

[4:41] being larger than the main house,

[4:44] some other evidence like that.

[4:45] The line of commission talk a little bit about

[4:48] why they may have this in the dress so far.

[4:52] Setbacks.

[4:54] And this might be, personally, my base concern so far, but we can certainly go whatever

[5:00] direction it feels best.

[5:02] Right now, the planning commission is working on a recommendation that it have the setbacks

[5:06] for a DEDU to same as for a primary structure.

[5:10] So you can only be able to have an e-catch-AQ, if you have x-rays for a 30-foot setback and a combined

[5:15] side-guired setback for 24 feet, or the minimum to 10 on one side.

[5:22] Building height, right now there are recommendations that would be the same as any other accessory structure in the zone.

[5:29] On what coverage, they would keep our same requirements of the 35% of the backyard.

[5:35] And I think this is likely connected to not having a maximum size of the need for you to go up there and we have them.

[5:42] On that one side, because if you were related by the percentage.

[5:47] On the number of ADUs, I think it's in a pretty clear direction that just one ADU and this is very common amongst every code we look at.

[5:56] You can either have an internal or an external, but you don't get to have both or multiple.

[6:02] Just one ADU for property, whether it's internal or external.

[6:07] And short-term result, the recommendation at this point,

[6:10] so the city has more time to work on the short-term rental

[6:13] little needs and not allow them to use for short-term.

[6:16] If we did that, that would be the only place

[6:19] there for hibiscus right now.

[6:21] Well, they're not especially allowed in the middle of everywhere.

[6:24] But these needs are not prohibited.

[6:26] Well, I would argue that our focus is in the way

[6:29] in our discussion, like, more, more having

[6:32] or hold your place on.

[6:34] I'll throw it in the right hand.

[6:37] Like six months and so forth.

[6:38] So whether it's in the big graph, correct.

[6:41] That would be fine.

[6:42] Just a, just a week in aggressive.

[6:45] So look at that as a separate issue rather than.

[6:47] Rather than hold this up while we discuss what our goal is.

[6:52] Yeah.

[6:53] So six month years and then relatively short until we get our

[6:57] ducks in our own.

[6:58] That would keep somebody from building one with that

[7:01] that intention and then being told no after the fact

[7:05] that's just going to be its own fight

[7:09] about what we think it doesn't need necessarily me you're not going to give somebody false hope

[7:15] or mislead.

[7:16] You skipped the order.

[7:16] I can see.

[7:17] No.

[7:17] Oh.

[7:18] Yeah.

[7:19] Yeah.

[7:20] I'm going to just hold this right there.

[7:22] Thank you.

[7:22] The requirement to be the owner of the property.

[7:25] The owner because of an indicator structure, but that happens to be somewhere in front.

[7:28] And again, that's very common in the draft order.

[7:37] For example, one way that people enforce it is that they require all the essentially

[7:44] head of business license, it's one way to enforce that.

[7:50] I'd like to talk about this much, but that's probably the most common.

[7:53] They pay a business license every year, just once.

[7:57] Probably every year.

[7:57] and it's a big deal.

[8:00] I'm going to say a lot of things.

[8:01] I think it would be really love.

[8:04] Another way you could try to enforce it is

[8:08] we cannot require things like additional instruments

[8:11] so we can probably require them to sign something

[8:14] in college or use it as a requirement.

[8:18] One of the other things we discussed

[8:20] James was we're not sure about metering.

[8:23] If metering will all be one meter

[8:25] And it's so you can say the water sewer, whatever happens to be in the name of the property and that's how it is now even

[8:33] Even if you try to reach your house, you don't allow you to put the name in the right place.

[8:36] Right.

[8:37] So that doesn't mean you're going to look at it.

[8:38] Yeah, but it would mean James is on the hook with you not looking there.

[8:42] It's the only way that he could probably keep taping.

[8:44] So on this?

[8:45] Right.

[8:46] I mean, it's going to be hard to police that.

[8:52] I don't know how you, I mean you tell people to follow the law and you're just going to do a change, come on.

[8:59] I will know with all of these that this is, and our nature is even, is a bit of a simplified way of looking at it because you could make it more complicated.

[9:09] And I've seen simple versions like what we're talking about, I've seen more complicated versions.

[9:13] A more complicated version would be something along the lines.

[9:16] And your setback is five feet, but if you're two stories,

[9:22] it's only 15 feet.

[9:24] And if you're one story with a window, it's seven feet.

[9:28] You can put requirements in related to windows,

[9:32] orientation of the building, size of the building.

[9:36] You could really kind of make it as detailed as you want in that regard.

[9:42] The final thing I'll say, and then Steve,

[9:44] I'll give you a second here to see if I have left anything out of that.

[9:47] The city attorney wants us to make sure we're looking at is the conversion of it.

[9:52] So state code says that the city is required in our code to have a conversion process for

[9:58] existing structures that one needs all building and health codes and two, need to set back

[10:05] requirements that we put in place.

[10:09] So we need to think really hard about that in terms of what we want with the district

[10:13] structures that are in this city and how we want to adjust with those. It's

[10:18] interesting that setback is really the only element in relation to those

[10:23] existing buildings. It didn't say that we can regulate them based on their

[10:28] current square footage or anything else just a setback. They need a setback

[10:33] requirements then we need a allow process for them to convert. Well I think it

[10:39] perfect sense going because really cool it is is that's the only thing that

[10:44] cities do on a better regular basis as far as reducing setbacks or what is

[10:49] their standard for a living space is excessive structure so setbacks being

[10:56] highly regulated they for the EU would be something that the state is giving us

[11:00] leverage a little bit yeah I think you do need to be careful in using the

[11:05] back as our as kind of the one tool that why that's what we're giving this well

[11:11] because I don't think it accomplishes everything that we can have a lot of the

[11:15] And that's why we need to care for the youngest and advocate for all of the things that we can do right now.

[11:22] It's likely that we, yes, it's also, you know, a 5.10%-100 greater, except we're setbacks.

[11:29] And so on.

[11:31] Steve, is there any else that comes with us just over that you seem to cancel me soon?

[11:35] You can't sit down.

[11:36] I don't think so.

[11:38] I agree with you, the setbacks.

[11:40] I want to tell you.

[11:40] I mean, if we turn our setbacks to the extreme...

[11:43] Is that the purpose?

[11:43] I think it's very nearly impossible on a smaller block to meet the setbacks and the setbacks.

[11:52] I'm not sure that accomplishes the purpose of it all right, just like I said.

[11:59] So it's about the end.

[12:01] The main purpose behind our thought process on the setbacks and maintaining them as we have with the rest of our journey

[12:08] is that we have justified that we need 30 foot setbacks in our ordinary hours.

[12:14] how do we not justify that we need 30-foot and 24-foot combined if we don't

[12:22] know if that's right or not. If you didn't want somebody's there to be from

[12:27] your proxy line before, why are you finding that it's 6 or 8 or 10 hats? Because it's a

[12:42] to be shown in, it also accomplishes what we took from the last city council to do in

[12:48] session was that we moved in towards being more restricted, not less restricted, and

[12:54] more restricted, it would be indicating that we're right.

[12:57] I think the counter-argument would be over the justification of the D-A-E-U as contemplated

[13:06] by most people.

[13:07] We think of VA views are intended to be smaller, and accessory to the main dwellers.

[13:16] So the reason we need 30 for our main dwellers is something less for a KVU because a KVU is going to be smaller and less impactful.

[13:22] I would agree that's correct. However, there are lots of homes all over the city that are older, smaller ones, on water lots.

[13:31] for someone who may want to build a, I would assume a brand new home, or I'd use a recycle

[13:37] material as well.

[13:39] It's not going to be a nice brand new home in the back, that is now going to be a living

[13:43] structure.

[13:45] Then in the front without you, somebody might consider you to use them.

[13:48] So we don't get it.

[13:50] We don't get it.

[13:50] We strip it out of that.

[13:51] Unless you put it aside as you want.

[13:52] I was just going to say, unless we put a minimum, like, you can't be any bigger than this.

[13:56] Hey, but you would hear your grandma's house built in 1950 and you're on an acre lot. Now if you tear down grandma's house, if you want to, you can, I know you're on, you're on an acre, but you can't build a bigger home because your backyard house has to be small and in front of your house.

[14:11] Yeah, if it means that's our thought process that's where you had that was it kind of

[14:18] of a sort of act. I guess another issue is why not let it happen? Do you want the

[14:23] AD use in the front yard? Do you want them to side yard? Do you want them to rear yard? I mean, I think most people think of them as a

[14:29] bar in the rear yard, but what I would describe in is maybe a D-A-D-U in the front. Does it matter? What it will give you different?

[14:38] If you drive down the street and you can't see the DAE because it's behind, does it matter for my DAE?

[14:45] I live in my DAE because it's my brand new 5,000 square foot home and I rent out my 1,000 square foot from 1940.

[14:52] You have a 16-foot setback on a larger rod and you're paying what we can you put at the

[15:00] There's a little incident on that. If you're not going to clear it on a 30-foot setback. If it hates the setback, so the answer would be yes, if it doesn't be clear.

[15:11] But that brings up the question,

[15:15] and I think these are just, you know,

[15:15] a question, can a DADU be in that side yard?

[15:17] What if it's not behind the DADU?

[15:22] That's probably

[15:24] 8,000 square feet.

[15:27] I would argue what difference does it make it?

[15:29] It means it's set hand.

[15:30] Because right now, we have one.

[15:33] We have one.

[15:34] We have one.

[15:35] There's a whole lot of sculpture in the front.

[15:38] That's right.

[15:38] We'll have 1,200 West and off pages.

[15:43] It's all built, but behind or in front of what is the east head that goes through the

[15:49] Moroccan power.

[15:50] Some of the homes are built right to the front setback, some of them are built behind

[15:54] it, because of the easement.

[15:56] Same with the accessory structures there.

[15:58] We have a few homes on one of these, at least one in around the back, just east of it we

[16:03] want.

[16:04] Right.

[16:04] I would build 150 foot back on the setback because there's a gas line, a pressure gas line.

[16:10] But there's nothing that can be built in front of that.

[16:12] Well, the bottom line is, though, is that no one cares that it's there, because these ones, they're reinforced.

[16:17] Yeah, how would I be saying it's big? You'll put a 300 foot A, B, U on that in front of each, because they're driven.

[16:22] And that is driven.

[16:24] We need a setback.

[16:25] I don't know.

[16:25] Will we care?

[16:27] If you lower this setback from 30 feet, and somebody who's main structure is right on that 30 feet,

[16:35] Could they say well people can build in that then I'm going to add on to my house and I don't I'm not required

[16:41] Why would you allow for a DADU and not for the primary structure to if you're going to

[16:48] Relax that you would you'd have to kind of

[16:54] That's not

[16:55] I think

[16:58] I think we've really risked losing a key phrase in D.A.U. and that is the phrase accessory.

[17:05] Are these, or what we're talking about, how it means to be accessory to many distant structures now,

[17:11] or are we talking about creating something about people to play the left?

[17:16] What's the point for us to go and where are we going to talk about what we want from the city,

[17:20] We won't continue again.

[17:22] It's to make this less or more...

[17:26] Okay, so we, yeah, we're here.

[17:28] So we do that.

[17:28] So you're, essentially, saying...

[17:31] Well, anyway.

[17:32] I don't want to get bogged down a little bit.

[17:33] Yeah, absolutely.

[17:34] We're starting to need to search all the way through a lot of different areas to cover.

[17:40] Since we've already covered so much random setbacks,

[17:44] I don't want to have to come back to it again.

[17:46] And so maybe we can kind of finish or not finish,

[17:50] but come to a conclusion on this discussion.

[17:54] Doug, I guess what I'm interested in for the council

[17:57] say is, is it a firm consensus of the planning,

[18:01] if everything that we're planning is right now,

[18:03] to have these kind of setbacks as in the draft right now?

[18:07] It is for me.

[18:08] As far as I'm concerned.

[18:10] You can't really have a 30-year setback in the rear yard.

[18:14] Yeah.

[18:14] So then, how about that one kind of love, that's a very good plot?

[18:19] Well, we're going to camp very few in front of the printer.

[18:22] You're not going to do many on the corner of your laptop.

[18:25] It would look like a mobile phone.

[18:28] Or less?

[18:30] Well, the discussion went through.

[18:33] When you look at what somebody is calling what you call an accessory,

[18:37] well, are you thinking of a new home?

[18:41] Well, if you are thinking of a new home,

[18:42] No, that's what you should be.

[18:44] No, that's what we're building up a new home.

[18:46] Well, that's what we wanted to make.

[18:48] That's not what we wanted.

[18:48] There's no new home to use.

[18:50] Whatever garage or sister building has an apartment inside of it.

[18:54] It's an accessory.

[18:55] It's an accessory.

[18:56] It's an accessory to the main room structure.

[18:59] But these are detached, right?

[19:01] Yes, they're detached.

[19:02] Yeah, but they're detached.

[19:02] At least towards the point is it's going to look like that.

[19:06] It's going to look like an structure.

[19:07] It's going to be used.

[19:10] So we have this idea.

[19:12] Well, yes, but it's a lot of accessories to them rather than rather than it's a little so would that eliminate somebody from being able to build behind

[19:19] Grandma's have a little tiny little tiny history

[19:23] Probably 90% of the city

[19:25] We want to make it so that every time they can hear it that has a garage or a

[19:30] Non-commercial structure three feet from the property line can enter that into a two-story house. Oh, that's where that's exactly where we go

[19:40] So is there a magic number if 30 feet from your property line is to risk your death is a 20 out if it's a 10?

[19:50] What would you like to have somebody?

[19:53] Do you know what I mean?

[19:54] Everyone would say so we understand what he says.

[19:57] No but that's from S.E. What is your name?

[19:59] My number is a little more sporadic currently.

[20:03] You got 6, 10 and that's right.

[20:06] In my own, we're going back to where we are currently on accessory buildings.

[20:12] Is it an accessory to own currently candy sticks?

[20:16] No.

[20:17] No, accessory structure.

[20:19] Not for dwellings.

[20:20] It can be said to me it's closest to three.

[20:24] But yeah, but I think that's where the discussion is going to be.

[20:27] I think three is maybe too cool.

[20:29] But what about my own?

[20:30] Half of three right now.

[20:32] Too bad.

[20:33] Yeah.

[20:34] So I've listed kind of four options.

[20:36] Right, so that was kind of new.

[20:38] Four, four different ways of thinking about it.

[20:40] For one of the most useful things we've talked about

[20:43] and heard the justification for.

[20:45] The second is what I would call our justification right now

[20:49] for a side yard set.

[20:50] So right now the minimum side yard set back

[20:52] of a primary structure is 10 feet.

[20:55] So the idea here is that we've always had that a dwelling unit

[20:58] needs to be at least 10 feet away from a property line.

[21:01] So if we start with 10 feet, that could be a justification saying, okay, for a smaller accessory thing, we still want it to be 10 feet from either the rear or the side of the place.

[21:13] The third option up here is what I will call conversion friendly.

[21:17] So if the intent is to allow folks with current structures to be able to convert in some of the most cases, then you look at kind of that six foot because there are a lot of structures that have been built at that six foot level.

[21:31] If you want to be the most friendly for existing and new structures,

[21:37] three things are not worth that, that is a real thing that a lot of places in the adult do you belong?

[21:44] Well, I would be one of the conversion of most friendly or most friendly because we want these structures.

[21:51] I mean, I think we are-

[21:51] I'm not arguing as you should, I'm just saying that these are four different options.

[21:55] First, consider.

[21:56] So the, I mean, I don't, this last two of not a huge fan of, I think we should have that reaction.

[22:03] The first two up there would be fine.

[22:06] I don't, the concept of having the text structure that's not livable.

[22:11] It makes a difference to me that they're living in, using it as something else for the three foot six foot.

[22:16] And I like the idea of, we've never let houses be three or six on our own.

[22:20] So why let an accessory people? Well, you have greater perks and flexibility than I rate in the residences

[22:26] I sure seems to fit with exactly what we're arguing

[22:32] I don't know why we

[22:33] For the existence of our Johnny Poland say this is what we can set it back to be

[22:39] But now because it was like it's an ADU's it's some special

[22:46] Maybe you say auction a beer the ones we like and you say you can do pretty much

[22:51] You want to do off-and-be, now we're going to restrict height, size, and so on.

[22:56] Exactly.

[22:57] It wasn't, and we're fully aware that this puts a big hindrance.

[23:03] And I mean, this point, a whole lot of times your permission means that this is going to,

[23:07] our thought process on maintaining the setbacks is going to hinder the ability to do so.

[23:13] A lot of people will lie here because of being about visible.

[23:16] But right now, it's zero percent of people in our city get it.

[23:19] We're going to make it so 30 to 50 percent.

[23:23] The real thought process behind it boils right down to

[23:28] we're being forced to go by the state number one.

[23:30] And number two, we have very little build labor is left in the city.

[23:34] What is build labor is less than city.

[23:36] As in its own now, it's all in a one acre plus.

[23:40] So, that being said, you already have a large developer

[23:43] that wants to develop and wants to put these structures back there.

[23:46] So in order to maintain any type of integrity in our zone now, how else can you do it

[23:51] other than with the setbacks, our existence?

[23:54] It is no other way because if you start saying that you could be less and less restrictive

[24:02] on these setbacks, you are going to have that builder is going to build as the zoning is now.

[24:09] The biggest possible, the past accessory belonging that they can back there and you all know

[24:14] this because as soon as you move your setbacks, the homes go from

[24:18] homeowners where it be to 1400 to 1800, they build to the setbacks

[24:23] everywhere they are. All new developments do it.

[24:26] But for the primary.

[24:27] But for the primary structure.

[24:29] Yes. And that's what I'm saying.

[24:31] Now we're getting yours for a second there.

[24:33] Are they going to just already building them back there?

[24:35] Now if they're not even legal.

[24:37] They're not even legal, but they're already up.

[24:39] And they're legal.

[24:40] Yeah, they're legal.

[24:42] But they're hoping they will be in your garage is in legal at least for another

[24:50] health.

[24:55] So we're getting all this pressure from the state we're getting all this

[25:04] pressure from the state to do something to be helpful to housing and do you think that

[25:12] the state is sitting back? Not that we have to care about what they're going to do, but

[25:16] if they're sitting in the back seat waiting to see what happens and then they look at

[25:19] all the cities and they're like, you totally missed the vote you guys, you didn't do squat

[25:24] enough and then they come in and take something else, we'll just deal with it when we, if

[25:30] and when, or should I say, but I do worry that they're going to come after us and be like,

[25:39] you guys missed this vote, but I don't know where the compromise could be. I'm just saying I worry

[25:48] that we're not doing enough by not considering B or C, but don't get me wrong, I see the purpose to A.

[26:00] have a better feeling about this if say this type of the oxygenate setbacks was

[26:09] something maintained in the 22 and the A1 and maybe it was less restrictive and

[26:15] the R1 tensile in order to provide an opportunity. Okay we have to back up and

[26:21] thank you. You have to teach me the 22 the 22 you just said sorry the half

[26:28] so let me ask you this in my neighborhood did the drapers become 22 or they

[26:33] still in R110 because they're in my neighborhood because they own a half

[26:36] acre in my neighborhood. They're in an R110 zone but why can't they build?

[26:44] Rather than the

[26:46] zoning, no matter what.

[26:47] If you're on that paper or a half paper,

[26:50] you can end up ordering the result.

[26:53] Presumably.

[26:54] They still learn.

[26:55] OK, so there will be that exceptionability

[26:57] for those people.

[26:59] Here's a lot that takes not your zone.

[27:01] OK, our other heartburn is, well, we

[27:04] are in the middle of the disdustinist.

[27:05] We have this lovely open forum about, hey,

[27:08] here's this possible development that might be for me

[27:10] in Westownville.

[27:11] Everyone grab their fish forks and torches.

[27:15] No, I didn't know. We're not doing this. Hello, never know. We don't want this in our city. And I was sure around

[27:21] See everybody gets you get a second home and you get a second. That's just good. We can't make a second home

[27:27] No, but right that's what this state would like, you know, so we're like we double the density

[27:32] I mean by keeping it out of my state saying 11,000 square feet they they eliminated 50%

[27:43] I'll bet give homes long to watch it for.

[27:45] These are more or more.

[27:47] Or more because there's a lot of stuff that would have had to be to say you can have it on the 6,000 square foot lock.

[27:54] How do you get to home?

[27:55] Even to try me home, son, this is 6,000 square foot lock.

[27:57] Well, I'm so, if you look at the matrix, it is not uncommon for,

[28:04] Senator Bill, right now is looking at 8,000 square foot locks.

[28:08] Wow, that's a part of it.

[28:09] about 8,000 square foot, so I mean yeah, but Sennaville also has a 20 foot setback, so

[28:20] I don't I don't know you guys that's our problem yeah most people don't want

[28:26] well yeah I do think I think it's why I think it's why I think it's why I think it's

[29:00] somebody's going to try and push us we know somebody's going to find a little

[29:26] We're not being inclusive by what we're doing, we're excluding more people than we would,

[29:30] other acts of that as well, we were asked so we're not being inclusive.

[29:33] if we don't want to make it for it.

[29:35] You're not being inclusive at all.

[29:37] Well, that's hard to say.

[29:39] That's the direction that we would exclude

[29:40] at 90% of the city.

[29:42] No, no, no.

[29:43] There was a zone that would be effective at the 22

[29:46] and then the A1 would not be effective

[29:48] if he said, right, well, that's a small,

[29:51] as far as number of homes in the city.

[29:53] It's half the city.

[29:54] It's more than half the A1.

[29:55] Not anywhere near.

[29:57] It didn't never, never.

[29:58] It's not anywhere in the room.

[30:03] What's our current, what's our current kind of housing on our, our, our one tin.

[30:09] So the way in the,

[30:10] so the way in the, what prevents them from calling the new structure, the old structure, the ADU versus

[30:19] the new structure. The, the, the Monty EU. Another thing that prevented it is our code saying, so we're existing structures.

[30:28] So we would have

[30:29] or put those you can't call the new structure you're building or not eat you and the existing

[30:34] one eat you, some language to that effect, and then we would have, and then you'd have the

[30:38] size of higher part of the division here. So it's that it may be forced to always use the

[30:44] existing as the base and they would always be smaller and shorter than the existing as the base.

[30:49] You'd never get a home bigger than the existing, but always be smaller if you have those restrictions.

[30:56] one thought I've had among all this is and I don't know if legally or

[31:01] administratively it becomes a problem is because I know are you specifically

[31:05] set with the whole grandma's house situation is if we couldn't have I don't

[31:11] always love the idea of multi-tier system but if you have a home that is let's

[31:18] just throw it around the number is two thousand square feet or is older than a

[31:23] certain date. Again, we'd have to come up with a reason for that to say okay it

[31:31] ends up looking like a flag lot. So that's kind of where I guess I'm missing some

[31:38] links here. I don't know, but is that some is that what you theoretically say that the

[31:44] only time in which you could build a larger accessory structure than the primary

[31:48] is that the existing primary structure is still 31950 and is of a certain, you know,

[31:54] side. I would even just say, I would even just say,

[31:58] square footage, period.

[32:00] Right, I mean, we're going to be right, but we're going to have to build an identity that

[32:05] are what you're tiny.

[32:06] No, yeah.

[32:07] That's all.

[32:08] Yeah.

[32:08] Right.

[32:09] Oh, we can make this whole game as we want the answers.

[32:12] Yeah.

[32:13] Yeah, just because looking at that and saying, I mean, again, we get to the basically we're making a flag lot

[32:20] But they don't have to need a flag lock requirement if we were to work in that situation

[32:24] Which I think there would be some people would be grateful, but I don't know if that's something we want to do

[32:30] But that seems a way to say okay, that seems a way to eat your you have a good

[32:34] Have a cake available

[32:45] She's talking about your flat level hands.

[32:48] No, but I do think a lot of them should be included in here.

[32:51] So the question, okay, so back out to the 30,000 foot level.

[33:00] What's the intent of an ADU or the DADU?

[33:09] What's the intent, the state has an intent?

[33:13] And intent, I don't know why it is housing.

[33:17] But what are we more cruel?

[33:19] Are our goals, is our goal to allow,

[33:25] have two homes on them?

[33:28] I have two homes.

[33:30] We're going to do that then.

[33:31] Let's turn them into quarter, quarter, and a lot of them.

[33:35] We agree that that's, but we also are on the point.

[33:38] That's what, what is our big goal here?

[33:41] Well, I think that's what I think we're losing here.

[33:44] We have lost them in weeds.

[33:45] I think we fear what the goal is.

[33:46] I think we fear that a DAPU has the same impact as a regular love.

[33:53] And the whole intent here is that, no, you do not have to say.

[33:56] These are more of a smaller family size, smaller footprint, smaller impact on utilities,

[34:03] smaller back on roads, smaller everything.

[34:05] So it's not to have someone like, it's one house plus one accessory.

[34:10] Plus one little, my kids need to save up to go and call it or to buy their own house.

[34:15] my brother in law, or have a disabled child and they need their own space and yet cannot

[34:22] live on their own enough to be in on their own space.

[34:27] But they need their own little

[34:28] studio apartment size something.

[34:34] I mean that's my anticipation, personally of what a

[34:37] DADU should look like.

[34:38] So is that $1,200 square foot max?

[34:43] Yeah.

[34:44] I mean, that's kind of my thought process.

[34:46] That's $1,200 square feet is $1,200 too bad.

[34:49] That's big.

[34:50] Yeah.

[34:50] That's a ton of a lot.

[34:53] That's a lot to be able to get.

[34:54] That's the footprint.

[34:55] The same is smaller, but it's $1,200.

[34:58] But it's $1,200, $1,200.

[34:59] But that's fast as well.

[35:01] And that's the square foot footprint on the property.

[35:05] Matt some of a two story house, right?

[35:08] And so you're still gonna have that crowded lot.

[35:13] Yeah.

[35:14] So that's why I just do a second call.

[35:17] I don't know what do we want, that's my question.

[35:19] I think my question, what is an old man?

[35:23] My person, I'll tell you my personal.

[35:25] Yeah, I'm in your tent.

[35:26] What is the city's goal and what do you mean?

[35:30] My personal goal.

[35:35] My personal goal in what a DADU should look like, and what I've been asking for, like,

[35:42] I've been talking to Duane on the side since I went to ULCT two, three years ago, my first year here.

[35:48] And Farmington has got all this creative thinking.

[35:51] My mind and my desire says we need to think creatively so that our 25 and 30-year-old kids can afford to buy a house

[36:01] that has a space in the back that they could rent out so they can actually afford to pay a $3,000 a month mortgage

[36:08] because interest rates are not coming down anytime soon in my opinion.

[36:13] So we need to think creatively and flexibly to create a thousand square foot house space so that we can see our kids be able to do that.

[36:25] Or see the fixed income kid a couple be able to stay there and manage because those kids their rent is to take care of the yard or whatever they work out.

[36:37] So I think we are, I think we're getting so worried about what I think don't get me wrong because the setbacks are so critical because I should not build one my corner acre.

[36:47] I don't I expound already I get the side the setbacks

[36:51] But I think we need to show our

[36:54] Residents that we want to see them be able to keep their kids here

[36:58] We want to see them be able to stay here because it costs and things

[37:02] Are requiring us to think creatively with housing?

[37:06] We have to think creatively

[37:09] Yeah

[37:10] You're preaching to the choir

[37:13] I get it and I have a son who thought in another state because he's not gonna

[37:18] For this. Yeah, so it's that how we have we wanted to look first race, but if Julie were to turn her if Julie were to turn her

[37:27] back garage into a little studio apartment. I don't qualify. You don't pay with that. Well, you don't qualify because it's on the property line because it's

[37:37] three feet. Yeah. So if it was six, we're going to pretend it's six. We're going to pretend

[37:43] they fit it. I made that change, but I'm not sure. So I like that attitude in terms of she

[37:47] did not pull out by that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if it meant that much to me. No, no, no,

[37:54] I'm fine. But also it hits and marks to be able to meet people where they could if they wanted to.

[38:01] So we're not eliminating attached dwelling units, right?

[38:08] So somebody that couldn't meet the 30-foot set back with a detached unit could still do an attached unit.

[38:15] Yeah, yeah.

[38:17] So if the grain bar is the volume of the attached, we're eliminating.

[38:22] So we're not going to end with the end to say, you can't have an access for the wrong end.

[38:33] Yeah

[38:35] I don't see a 650 in 650 foot in whatever you call it

[38:43] 30 feet

[38:58] They are very expensive.

[39:01] Why do we have, is that that will look 30 feet right now.

[39:04] Why don't we want your neighbors building 16 feet?

[39:08] Right.

[39:10] If there's a good reason why it's 30 and that's why.

[39:14] The planning process is working.

[39:15] The planning process is literally made into one photograph.

[39:17] We did not.

[39:18] The planning process is absolutely done.

[39:20] I told you that last week that it's not true.

[39:26] So I gave in here and I already would cancel gas it and the council did it.

[39:31] You may have exclusions.

[39:33] Anyway.

[39:34] And maybe 20 is the right word.

[39:37] Maybe it's 10.

[39:38] I am.

[39:39] What are we doing?

[39:41] What are we doing?

[39:42] What are we doing?

[39:43] And my perspective says 10 with.

[39:46] Uh-huh.

[39:46] 10 with 650.

[39:48] Because mine, I'm single level.

[39:51] I'm single level.

[39:51] Julie, I have a 1250 square foot barn, but it's sitting on the

[39:56] property line. It's a non-conforming use.

[40:01] I was just going to say, I think if it's a non-conforming

[40:04] use, it should all actually use it. It doesn't matter if it's a

[40:07] 6-week, 3-week worker. It's non-conforming. I think that should be part of the

[40:11] code. So I think it's worth saying, here we go, that this

[40:15] discussion wouldn't be having any joint meetings, any of this stuff.

[40:20] this wouldn't be happening at all.

[40:21] If the state wasn't forcing it to happen.

[40:23] No, I agree.

[40:24] So being one of our last six years sentence,

[40:27] where we are essentially trying to satisfy the state

[40:30] for our environment.

[40:31] Mm-hmm.

[40:33] Very man of heart.

[40:34] Yeah.

[40:34] I was just wondering how many days

[40:36] of war were changing our zoning.

[40:38] So I would agree.

[40:39] I would agree, because if we were doing that,

[40:41] we wouldn't allow mud to go, though.

[40:42] That's where the first thing I would be,

[40:44] the first thing on the dot end.

[40:46] If we were trying to prevent it,

[40:48] to the point we'd say that I'm under what that's working and then we would

[40:54] proceed with bring it in there we look at the our goal is our goal is so is our

[41:02] goal to limit the number of these that can be done in the city that was the

[41:09] attack yes that was what we wanted to add by the definitions goal yes that was

[41:15] or that was, it was to be, so it's good to have to live at these as much as possible and still being the state requirement.

[41:25] Yes, that's correct.

[41:26] We were looking at the V3 requirements being compliance with it and have as limited impact as possible.

[41:31] So it was that, because you already have the opportunity for ADUs, that's there.

[41:35] If you're in the Army, have any, you need to have your own, yes.

[41:38] The availability is there.

[41:39] You can do the obstacle case.

[41:41] What's the number one thing people like about this matter?

[41:47] We get very little public input and everybody comes to us and says stop making more stuff, leave open space, so that was kind of horror.

[41:55] So that's what I think, so that's good to add that we can know what we're thinking about.

[42:04] But if yours is opposite, that's what we need to know so that we're on the same page.

[42:08] I don't know that it's necessarily opposite. I think that there's just got to figure out some sort of a common ground in between.

[42:13] because it is an opposite, but we do need to be thinking more flexibility. We do need to address some of the issues.

[42:19] I'm not arguing that all the 11,000's need to be able to have this.

[42:25] But I do think that we need to be able to make it more friendly for a quarter or a half acre or maybe a third acre.

[42:32] I don't know, but half acre sure. We need to make it easier.

[42:35] because we have blocks that are 200 deep and 85 wide and they are 110 with phones that are 20 feet back on the curb.

[42:45] And they've got all over the island, they could build one of these.

[42:48] Yeah, I mean, I wanted to exclude them, but they're sort of pretty disparate, so they would be able to do it.

[42:53] Well, we don't want to exclude blocks like that that happens in spots.

[42:56] Yeah, but you wouldn't be able to do this without them, they won't be able to do it.

[43:05] There's a wizard but there are all one dead. That's what I'm doing. That's right. There's a three made. But it doesn't matter.

[43:11] I'm just going to show you.

[43:13] But it's where it's just where it's going.

[43:16] Yeah it's correct.

[43:17] That's why you said it's where it's going.

[43:19] It's all anewing.

[43:20] Yeah.

[43:21] I don't think we need a square.

[43:23] We just hear it.

[43:24] Look, if you can make it fair with the point section, go for it.

[43:28] It doesn't matter. I'm just going to do half.

[43:30] It's just got to face this foot.

[43:31] The wheat foot out.

[43:32] What can you do?

[43:44] I don't want to look at that because I think, I think that has some unintended consequences

[43:51] to be covering.

[43:56] Well, again, our thought process is when we left the last meeting is that we were all

[44:02] in the census, at least the commissioner, the council members, but we needed to look

[44:05] at this as a more disclusive perspective, not to entertain us.

[44:13] That was a consensus to God, so we could gather and try to maintain something.

[44:17] Again, I didn't think there was a consensus at all.

[44:21] I loved that meeting, hearing a lot of different answers.

[44:23] I don't know if that's a specific question, but you can learn it.

[44:25] So here it wasn't voted for trust me.

[44:27] I was voted on top.

[44:28] No, I'm not saying the consensus was to be inclusive.

[44:34] I wouldn't use the word inclusive or uninclusive.

[44:37] I wouldn't say that.

[44:38] If there was a consensus for the last thing,

[44:40] my takeaway was the consensus was to be clear.

[44:42] Everybody had a thought.

[44:43] Yeah, everybody had their own thought.

[44:45] Okay, let's...

[44:48] I don't know if this is anywhere, but let's do this.

[44:50] I'd like to have each council member take two minutes and give their thoughts on what they think on their thoughts of

[45:02] All right, I did.

[45:05] I'd like to have my. I think we're really helpful in two minutes or less, you can give your thoughts on broadly. Doesn't it be super specific? But broadly ideas on setbacks, any kind of size requirements, minutes, and the most imaginable, high requirements, anything that will help to form a planning commission in their final right condition, okay? Well, then I'll go first because I've kind of already told my position on it. And so I would just fine tune it to say

[45:31] that for me if it's a 650 in the back of the barn I don't know that 30 has to be

[45:39] the number I don't like six I'm pretty sure I don't like six I definitely don't

[45:45] like three but I don't know that 10 is awful when it's just supposed to be a

[45:52] detached dwelling unit that somebody's trying to get started on it the purpose of a

[45:57] starter home in the form of even more starter, if that makes sense. So I'm not

[46:03] necessarily sold on the, I'm not, I don't love the idea of that kind of

[46:09] situation being limited, being held to 30 foot. I would be okay with 10.

[46:19] Okay so my

[46:20] thoughts are we should really focus on the fact that it's an accessory, that it

[46:26] It should be minimal in comparison to the main structure and within a certain footprint.

[46:35] And anything less than 10 feet to me is out of the question on a rare setback.

[46:42] And if that means you're disqualified, it means you're disqualified, or if it means you can

[46:46] only put in 600 square foot little house.

[46:49] And I don't think in accessory structure somebody should look at as a starter home.

[46:53] That's a like a temporary rental place for somebody in a transitional part of life.

[47:00] Period that and that somebody maybe it will supplement their mortgage payment but it shouldn't

[47:06] be like we shouldn't set it up so people can use it as a big source of income or you know

[47:12] that focus on just accessory, smaller unit behind the main house and so I think limiting square

[47:20] footage, total square footage would be wise in comparison. A percentage of the

[47:26] main structure, something like that. James, you got a lot on setbacks, but the main

[47:33] nightmare you do, the main principles to me are you have size, which departments

[47:37] have, high requirements, have other requirements that are sensible, and make

[47:40] sure that the ADU is not swallowing up the main structure. We can't swap them

[47:45] and switch them to pretend one's the other, but that it really is accessory and that

[47:49] their small limited parking, maximize the parking restrictions, maximize those kinds of

[47:55] resource restrictions so that the EU is truly secondary in the accessory to the EU structure.

[48:03] And those things you can do, the setbacks, I wouldn't be the favorite to seek the other three

[48:08] or three or six of them.

[48:10] For someone who makes it look like this, you don't get some added bonus or benefit by calling

[48:15] you never get, there's just one step, there's just a charm.

[48:20] Those are the many things.

[48:22] Thank you.

[48:23] Hello?

[48:24] Well, I just wanted to put it on close.

[48:26] I just put it on my arm, I put it on the ball right there.

[48:28] But I went with it in three feet.

[48:30] So I fired a raider between me and the neighbor.

[48:33] You have a ball in there?

[48:34] Yeah, he does.

[48:35] The truck's got one that goes.

[48:49] I mean, it would make it great in you, I mean, yeah, yeah, it would be part six, parts on the side, but I'm not going that far out.

[48:58] But I think my neighbors behind me were about 120 people, and I've got 220, only 86 wide,

[49:08] perfect. It's ideal for them, and I wouldn't have any infection. As long as it doesn't,

[49:14] you know, come to the close with me. If they put a accessory building out there, but it wasn't

[49:21] maybe, I mean, I did, they could move that.

[49:26] I don't think we're going to get a rush,

[49:29] Everybody's coming in a plan for APU for this.

[49:34] I think, you know, we just have the ability to change these ordinances as we go off.

[49:40] You may accept the ones that are already running in the building, but...

[49:43] Why now?

[49:45] I don't know what I'm talking about.

[49:47] I don't know what I'm saying.

[49:49] I don't think so.

[49:53] I don't know what's happening.

[49:56] I don't know what's happening.

[50:02] Yeah, yeah, but we are okay. So, um, yeah, I, I had to appreciate the thoughts of council. I don't know if that gives the planning commission.

[50:27] Let's

[50:28] those lines. I think some of the things they've got here nice, I think some of me, you

[50:33] know, you look at some of them there. They've got some sizes and some of them allow different

[50:39] sizes if you've got different sizes on the other side or certain size on the other side

[50:43] or certain size on the other side.

[50:45] Yeah.

[50:47] Let me ask a question.

[50:49] I'm going to look like we have two different plans. Whether it be really a larger place where

[50:57] or if you can force it 30 to it on that,

[50:58] but whether it be a smaller,

[51:00] like square finish was only a tank length.

[51:02] Would you be opposed to the counts of being opposed?

[51:04] If we had two, I'd be used for two ways of telling.

[51:08] No, I think that's right.

[51:09] I actually think that that'd be absolutely appropriate.

[51:13] You're tensing, yeah.

[51:15] Sort of different things.

[51:16] Yeah.

[51:16] You're tensing for the property,

[51:18] and you want a smaller amount of energy.

[51:18] You can do that.

[51:19] You can do that.

[51:21] Over on the level it was,

[51:22] There's more perials and so what do you think?

[51:31] I wouldn't be excited about that initially actually.

[51:34] I don't know why.

[51:35] Because it could be a size other than a little thing in front of just...

[51:40] I mean, it's also like that you've built a bigger one in a polished house.

[51:43] How do we have restricted restrictions on size?

[51:46] In my mind.

[51:47] It could be a little guy in front of...

West Bountiful City Council Meeting

Transcript