[0:00] So, welcome everybody. Um, I'm Deborah

[0:03] Carney. I'm the chair. And our voting

[0:05] members tonight will be Bob Smith and

[0:07] Roger Lipton. We also have our alternate

[0:10] uh Kristen Vivon with us. So, what we'd

[0:13] like to do is start by reading the legal

[0:16] notice for our hearing tonight. And let

[0:19] me share the screen and bring that up.

[0:22] And I will ask our administrative

[0:24] assistant,

[0:26] Gwen.

[0:27] Um,

[0:29] okay. That's very odd.

[0:34] The host isn't allowed sharing for this

[0:36] meeting.

[0:38] >> Um, is that some Did I accidentally do

[0:41] that?

[0:41] >> I

[0:42] >> You want me to share?

[0:43] >> I don't know. I've never had that

[0:45] happen.

[0:47] >> Oh,

[0:48] >> we absolutely need that function.

[0:51] >> I just um I just did um multiple people,

[0:56] I think. Um, okay. I

[1:01] » It says multiple participants

[1:04] can share simultaneously. I clicked on

[1:06] >> Can you Can you Can you turn that off,

[1:09] Gwen? So that I can

[1:11] >> I

[1:12] >> I'll do I Okay, now I can share. Okay,

[1:16] >> there you go.

[1:17] >> All right. Yes, that was very scary.

[1:19] Okay. Okay. Um,

[1:23] okay, Gwen, you you can read at any

[1:25] time.

[1:27] >> Okay. Hi, everyone. My name is Gwen. Um,

[1:31] I am the land use assistant for the town

[1:32] of Wheatley, and I'll be reading the

[1:34] legal notice. So, notice is hereby given

[1:38] that the zoning board of appeals of

[1:39] Weightley will hold a public hearing on

[1:42] Thursday, December 4th, 2025 at 6:00

[1:45] p.m. Bayate Blasting, Inc., owned by

[1:47] Denise Dennis uh Baltazar of Lello MA

[1:52] has applied to amend an existing special

[1:54] permit to allow for the installation of

[1:57] a new storage silo magazine on the

[2:00] premises located at 71 Chestnut Plane

[2:04] Road in Wheatley pursuant to article

[2:07] 7131

[2:10] of the Wheatley zoning accordance

[2:13] the hearing will take place virtually

[2:15] via Zoom the rules of the decor forum

[2:17] for a public hearing remain in effect

[2:19] and the chair's person will seek

[2:21] comments from the public when

[2:23] appropriate to do so. Application to

[2:26] amend the special permit is to be

[2:28] considered under under the provisions of

[2:31] the Wheatly zoning bylaws as provided by

[2:34] MGLC

[2:37] 4A. This notice is also published

[2:40] electronically on the uh

[2:43] www.recorder.com

[2:44] public notices and ww.mmasspublic

[2:48] notices.org.

[2:50] >> Okay. Do you have by any chance, Gwen,

[2:52] the dates it was published in the

[2:54] recorder? If not, I can find it in past

[2:56] records. If you don't, it's okay.

[2:59] >> Um, not offh hand, but I will make sure

[3:02] I information next time.

[3:05] >> Okay. No, that's okay. That's fine. Um,

[3:07] Mr. Valtazar, did you notice any errors

[3:10] or omissions in this?

[3:12] >> I did not. No.

[3:13] >> Okay. I will note one, which is that

[3:16] under um our new our most recent um

[3:20] zoning bylaws, the special permit is now

[3:23] under 171-37

[3:26] uh as opposed to 171-31.

[3:30] Um, and I also just want to read into

[3:33] the record at the beginning that in

[3:36] addition to asking for the installation

[3:38] of this new silo, you are also asking to

[3:43] increase condition A of the 2013

[3:47] permit from nine storage magazines to no

[3:52] restriction on the number of magazines.

[3:55] Um although your total storage um is

[3:58] still staying at no more than 180,000

[4:02] pounds. So just to be clear at this

[4:06] moment you have a permit for nine. You

[4:09] are asking to increase

[4:12] to 10 and also to change a condition so

[4:16] that there is no restriction on the

[4:19] number. Is that correct?

[4:21] >> Uh not entirely. We're not looking to

[4:24] increase to 10 magazines.

[4:27] We're looking to maintain the 180,000

[4:30] pounds. Uh instead of uh splitting them

[4:34] up into currently it's nine different

[4:36] magazines, we would like the ability to

[4:38] have larger a larger magazine.

[4:41] >> Uh so the total storage would not exceed

[4:45] the same 180,000 lbs. We just want to be

[4:48] able to break up the storage into

[4:50] different sized containers, so to speak.

[4:53] >> Right. But you're also asking for no

[4:55] restriction on that number of containers

[4:57] slashmagazines.

[4:59] >> Yeah, we're we're asking that uh we

[5:02] thought it'd be s uh simpler to just uh

[5:05] not restrict the number of magazines and

[5:07] keep the same total poundage.

[5:11] >> Okay, that I understand. And I just want

[5:12] to make that clear for the record that

[5:15] um there was an a request for condition

[5:18] change as well as a construction of this

[5:21] new silo/magazine.

[5:23] I realize that those terms are in

[5:25] interchangeable and I just want to make

[5:26] sure that that is how you understand it

[5:29] as well.

[5:30] >> Yes.

[5:31] >> Okay. Um, and also just to mention that

[5:34] um, we I we do thank you for the

[5:37] detailed response to the criteria for

[5:39] the special permit that you included,

[5:41] but we also need to take a look at your

[5:43] application um, in light of the fact

[5:46] that the business is being situated in

[5:48] the aquifer protection district. So,

[5:50] we'll be looking at that bylaw as well.

[5:53] So, let me stop this share. Um, at this

[5:57] point, you know, we are you are welcome

[5:59] to um summarize briefly if you'd like

[6:03] your petition to the board. And if you'd

[6:05] like, I can call it up if you want me to

[6:08] um have you walk it through.

[6:11] >> Yeah, I mean I was waiting our uh land

[6:14] surveyor Rob Lev uh and associates. Uh I

[6:17] don't see that. Are they on yet?

[6:20] >> I don't see them. Everybody who is who

[6:24] is in our is nobody's in our waiting

[6:27] room. Everyone is here on the screen.

[6:29] >> Okay. Yeah. They they prepared the

[6:30] paperwork and and would have uh perhaps

[6:33] more information as it relates to, you

[6:35] know, the specific town codes and

[6:37] bylaws. Um

[6:40] >> Okay. Um

[6:41] >> yeah, I'm sorry. They prepared the

[6:43] information for us on our behalf.

[6:45] >> Do you want to give them a call, see

[6:47] where they are?

[6:47] >> Yeah, let me do that right now. I

[6:49] apologize.

[6:50] >> Yeah. Why don't you mute yourself?

[8:14] John, you're on.

[8:18] >> I am here. Yes. I apologize. Um I was

[8:21] admitted late and wasn't sure what the

[8:23] discussion was about. I I apologize for

[8:25] taking the time.

[8:26] >> That's okay. Um would you like me to

[8:28] bring up your application? I Well,

[8:31] actually, let me stop you for one

[8:32] moment. I'm sorry. We do have our fire

[8:35] chief with us here. JP, are you still

[8:38] with us?

[8:42] Has he left?

[8:44] Okay. I wanted to give him the

[8:46] opportunity to ask his questions because

[8:48] he's on a limited time. Um, but perhaps

[8:52] he'll come back

[8:55] so I can also text him as well. Would

[8:58] you like me to pull up your application

[9:01] >> if you'd like? Either that or the plan.

[9:03] I'm not sure which is is uh better uh

[9:06] for viewing.

[9:08] >> Okay. Well, the plan I everything is put

[9:11] into

[9:14] Okay. Do you have All right. Let me just

[9:18] Do you would you like to be made a

[9:20] co-host and pull it up yourself? if

[9:22] you'd like because I I did create uh in

[9:24] the last 15 minutes a plan with a little

[9:26] color on it that might make it a little

[9:27] more visible to to especially on a

[9:29] screen. So that would be if you could

[9:31] that'd be great.

[9:32] >> Gwen, do you want to go ahead and do

[9:34] that?

[9:35] >> I could do that now.

[9:36] >> Okay.

[9:40] » Um hold on.

[9:45] » Gwen, are you there?

[9:49] I just see John Kenny needs to be

[9:51] admitted in so I just added him in.

[9:54] >> Okay. Do you want

[9:55] >> I was I was taking

[9:58] Sorry.

[9:59] >> Okay. We need We need to make um

[10:04] Okay. I'm just John John who's on the

[10:08] screen. We need to make him the co-host

[10:10] so that he can share the screen.

[10:13] >> Right. Okay. Yes, I will figure that out

[10:17] right now. Um Make co-host. Okay.

[10:21] >> Yes.

[10:23] I just made him co-host.

[10:30] » With any luck, you may be looking at my

[10:32] screen at this point.

[10:33] >> We are.

[10:34] >> All right. Yes. Um

[10:37] >> I don't know. Would would you like me I

[10:39] don't mean to take over the meeting, but

[10:42] would you like me to at least give a

[10:43] brief explanation of of the plan in

[10:46] front of you?

[10:47] Yes, we would like you to present your

[10:49] request to the board and then we have

[10:51] our questions

[10:52] >> by all means. Um,

[10:55] by way of formal introduction, my name

[10:57] is John Mik. I am uh uh representing uh

[11:01] Mr. uh Dennis Baltazar, the owner of

[11:04] Bayate Blasting. I work for Arloc

[11:07] Associates. Uh we have prepared uh the

[11:10] plan in front of you this evening uh on

[11:12] the screen as well as the application

[11:14] that uh you mentioned uh to amend an

[11:17] existing uh special permit uh that was

[11:19] issued to uh base 8 blasting in uh 2013

[11:23] when they took over this site from the

[11:26] prior uh operator who was running a

[11:28] similar operation. Um the property is

[11:32] approximately 40 acre parcel located on

[11:35] the westerly side of of Chestnut Plane

[11:37] Road. Um it's accessed through a uh

[11:40] gravel drive through a a narrow access

[11:43] strip. Um from the westerly side of the

[11:46] road, it rises uh roughly from elevation

[11:49] 175 or so to the uh site of the um

[11:55] operations, if you will, roughly uh

[11:57] elevation 260 to 290 depending upon

[12:01] where you are on the site. Um, they are

[12:04] currently permitted to store, excuse me,

[12:07] up to 180,000 pounds of explosives in a

[12:11] total of up to nine magazines. Uh, we

[12:15] are proposing, we're before the board

[12:17] tonight to uh uh try and permit a an

[12:20] additional silo to be constructed uh in

[12:23] this area uh located uh 76 uh feet or

[12:28] more from the uh northerly property

[12:30] line. Um, again, we've shown uh we've

[12:34] survey located the houses that are uh

[12:37] within the area of concern to the

[12:41] proposed new uh site improvements. Uh we

[12:44] have the house at 141 uh West Bridge

[12:48] Road located here and we have the two

[12:50] houses on Chestnut Plane Road uh number

[12:53] 69 and number 73 with the associated

[12:57] 1515

[12:59] foot radi uh sketched in in uh the

[13:02] magenta colored lines and they're

[13:04] dimensioned with the red and the again

[13:06] the proposed uh new construction is

[13:09] located outside all three of those radi

[13:12] um And the uh as I said, it's it's shown

[13:17] um located area that isn't currently uh

[13:20] developed, if you will. But um we're

[13:23] proposing the location in that that

[13:25] general vicinity. Um I'm not sure if Mr.

[13:28] Beltazar has anything further to add

[13:30] regarding the the uh brief presentation

[13:33] about the site, but uh I I've not had

[13:35] opportunity to actually be on site, so

[13:38] I'm at something of a disadvantage. But

[13:40] um that is the uh the rough layout of of

[13:44] the the operation and be happy to uh try

[13:47] and answer any questions that the board

[13:49] may have.

[13:50] >> Okay. And thank thank you for that. I do

[13:52] want to just ask JP are I know that

[13:55] you're on a time constraint possibly.

[13:57] Would you like to raise your um

[14:00] questions now if you have to leave?

[14:05] JP, you're muted.

[14:12] Sorry about that. Um, yeah, I I've got

[14:15] probably another 25 um or 30 minutes or

[14:17] so um in the window here, so I'm doing

[14:20] okay. But uh if you want to give me the

[14:22] opportunity um I would have a few

[14:25] questions um regarding the storage um at

[14:28] the site and the proposed changes.

[14:31] >> Um

[14:32] I'm not really familiar with the silo

[14:35] the proposed silo. Um I'm assuming that

[14:38] this would be for ammonium nitrate fuel

[14:40] oil um mix like an AN anfo or what what

[14:44] exactly is going to be in the silo?

[14:46] >> Yeah, it's for ANFO. Correct.

[14:49] >> And what is the storage capacity of the

[14:51] magazine?

[14:52] >> Uh so this Yeah, this particular silo is

[14:56] 60,000 pounds which is about 5600

[14:59] gallons.

[15:00] >> Okay.

[15:02] >> I'm sorry, how many gallons? Uh, imagine

[15:05] a 5600 a 5,600galon tank on stilts.

[15:10] >> Um, okay. I do have a question. When I

[15:14] met with the fire marshall on Monday, he

[15:17] said that these were pellets and that

[15:19] they would not become liquefied until

[15:21] they went to the job site. Is this

[15:23] liquid or is it a solid?

[15:27] >> No, this is Anfo. It's ammonium n It's

[15:29] ammonium nitrate with fuel oil.

[15:31] >> So, it is liquid.

[15:33] Yes. Yeah.

[15:35] >> Okay.

[15:36] >> It's an emotion. Yeah.

[15:39] >> Okay.

[15:40] >> I think it's granular, I think, is what

[15:42] you're my understanding, right?

[15:43] Typically,

[15:45] >> yes, it's it's an emulsion. So, it's it

[15:48] >> it's an emulsion. Yes. Okay.

[15:50] >> Um I'm sorry JP, I just wanted to get

[15:53] that detail.

[15:54] >> Sure. No, I understand. So, this will be

[15:56] um in a slurry or in a dry um a dry

[16:00] compound? It'll it'll be delivered uh

[16:03] for as one unit. We'll be Yeah, we'll be

[16:07] purchasing from there's a few limited

[16:09] vendors and and they'll deliver it in

[16:11] their trucks uh to fill the silo.

[16:13] >> Okay. But it it just so that I'm I'm I'm

[16:16] clear, it's not going to be um the same

[16:19] product as we would find in a 50 lb bag.

[16:21] It's going to be in a slurry.

[16:22] >> Correct.

[16:23] >> Be ready to pump out of a truck.

[16:25] >> Correct. Yes.

[16:26] >> Yeah. They're just uh we've decided to

[16:29] go go with the route that there no

[16:30] premixing that it it's it's mixed at the

[16:33] manufacturer ahead of time.

[16:36] >> Okay, that's in contrary to what the

[16:38] fire marshall told me, but please go

[16:40] ahead with your questions JP.

[16:51] » Hello.

[16:53] I think he said a screen freeze.

[16:56] Okay,

[16:58] JP, can you hear

[17:06] gosh? Okay, who can hear me?

[17:10] >> I can hear you. I can hear you.

[17:11] >> Okay, so JP, where are you?

[17:14] >> Um, I just had a um screen freeze also

[17:18] and it kicked me out, so I had to sign

[17:20] back in. So, just letting you know. I

[17:23] think it's

[17:23] >> Oh, okay. Okay.

[17:26] It just happened to me. Okay. So, I'm

[17:28] sure he'll come back in.

[17:32] » Can I throw out some questions to the to

[17:35] the presenter?

[17:37] >> I'm sorry, Roger.

[17:39] >> While we have this dead time, I have

[17:41] some questions to the

[17:42] >> Yes, please.

[17:44] >> John, those those radi they indicate

[17:47] 1500 feet or more from the nearest

[17:50] residences. those 15-15 foot radiuses

[17:55] radi more are are from the nearest point

[17:58] of the house to the uh the the locust uh construction site in question. Yes.

[18:05] Okay.

[18:05] >> And these the houses just to uh

[18:08] reiterate were survey located uh you

[18:10] know on ground survey by our crew. uh

[18:12] most of the topography shown was

[18:14] generated from Noah LAR but the houses

[18:17] were in fact located uh via on the

[18:19] ground survey as well as tying into the

[18:21] property lines. So

[18:27] » is do you have a rendering of this silo

[18:33] a plan for what it looks like and how

[18:36] it's constructed?

[18:39] >> I do. Yes, I can. Uh, John, can I

[18:43] forward this to you now? You can share

[18:45] it.

[18:46] >> Sure.

[18:49] >> How tall is it?

[18:52] >> Uh, it's the tank itself is about 12

[18:54] vertical feet and it's about 8t

[18:57] diameter.

[19:09] I just added um JP back in.

[19:13] >> Okay,

[19:14] >> JP, you were lost to us. Do you want to

[19:16] continue with your questions?

[19:18] >> Yeah, my my profound apologies.

[19:21] Apparently, there's a technology issue

[19:22] here where I just got I've been kicked

[19:25] off the second time. So, um um I think

[19:28] it's my internet connection here. I'm on

[19:30] my phone now. Um, so what is the height

[19:32] of the uh of the tank?

[19:34] >> Do we know?

[19:36] >> 12 feet.

[19:37] >> Yeah, the tank itself. Yeah. So, I just

[19:40] uh sent the uh the cut sheet to John who

[19:43] was going to share it that has a picture

[19:44] of it.

[19:45] >> Okay.

[19:46] >> But yeah, 12 vertical feet and 8 foot

[19:49] diameter on the outside.

[19:50] >> Okay. And is there a containment dyke

[19:52] around

[19:54] >> said tank?

[19:55] >> Yes.

[19:56] >> Okay. Um

[20:00] Is it this may sound is it on an

[20:03] imperous surface?

[20:06] >> It would yeah it would be we would have

[20:08] the foundation design which would

[20:10] probably be of some thickness or

[20:12] strength of concrete with with or

[20:14] without rebar.

[20:15] >> Okay. And then in in um in winter

[20:18] weather and in the um rainy seasons uh

[20:21] or rainy weather um will there be a

[20:24] provision to pump out um any water

[20:27] that's in that containment um prior to

[20:31] um utilizing the uh the tank?

[20:35] >> Uh yes. Yes.

[20:38] >> Okay. Um,

[20:41] and I think like all magazines, um, my

[20:45] concern would be, one of my concerns

[20:47] would be, um, what the fire load would

[20:50] be around the area. Um, and I think I'm

[20:53] sure that's something that the state and

[20:55] the the feds have asked already, but um,

[20:57] can you just speak to that a little bit?

[20:59] >> Yeah, I'm sorry. What was the first part

[21:01] of the question? I

[21:01] >> Oh, the the fire load around um the

[21:04] magazine. Um so how far away from uh

[21:07] brush and trees and grasses um would the

[21:09] tank be?

[21:10] >> Right. Yeah. So so basically based based

[21:13] on

[21:16] >> Hello. Yeah. B b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b based on the the distance

[21:20] and burm that we build up will dictate

[21:22] where the other magazines can go.

[21:25] >> Okay. And and uh the the tree line. I'm

[21:29] just talking about the tree line and um

[21:31] and brush and grasses in relation to

[21:34] this one storage silo.

[21:36] >> Oh yeah, John, you might be able to that

[21:38] distance is better than me

[21:40] >> from the from the tree line. What's that

[21:42] scale out to be?

[21:44] >> Uh I mean we have 76 feet minimum for

[21:47] the uh silo and it would probably be the

[21:50] tree line as located in that vicinity

[21:52] looks to be you know

[21:54] >> within 10 to 15 feet of the property

[21:56] line. So roughly 60 ft.

[21:59] >> Okay.

[22:00] >> As it currently exists.

[22:03] >> All right.

[22:04] Um Okay, that answers the basic

[22:07] questions that I have. I'll I'll let you

[22:08] uh go on. Thank you for that.

[22:10] >> Um JP, I have a question for you. The fact that the petitioner is asking

[22:15] Oh, thank thank you. I see the image

[22:17] >> ju just popped in. I I was waiting.

[22:20] >> Okay, everybody can see that. Um the the

[22:22] fact that the petitioner is asking for

[22:25] an unlimited number of magazines.

[22:28] >> But but I'm I'm sorry. We're not we're

[22:30] not asking for unlimited.

[22:33] >> You don't want a fixed number.

[22:35] >> Yeah. Because essentially if if we're

[22:37] maxed out at 180,000 and this unit takes

[22:40] 60,000 pounds, then that means uh we

[22:43] could only have six other magazines with

[22:46] 20,000 pounds.

[22:47] >> Well, that's that's my question. when I

[22:50] um it seems as though there are many

[22:53] different kinds of magazines and I know

[22:55] that the I know that I believe it's the

[22:57] ATF that establishes how far apart they

[23:00] have to be from one another. Is that

[23:01] correct?

[23:02] >> Right. Yes.

[23:03] >> Okay. Um, so

[23:07] I guess I'm I

[23:11] So the position of those magazines

[23:14] wherever they're going to be placed,

[23:17] does is that something that our fire

[23:19] chief needs to know in case of a brush

[23:22] fire or something else up there? In

[23:24] other words, how would anyone know where

[23:27] those magazines are located? Is will

[23:29] that be on a map? Will that be available

[23:31] to all?

[23:34] Yeah. Yeah. So, we get inspected yearly

[23:36] by state fire marshal and and we've met

[23:39] them on site already ahead of time to

[23:41] make sure that everybody was on board

[23:43] with this and and the locations and

[23:45] capacities were all within their

[23:48] provisions. So, we've already met with

[23:50] them uh for this site at this location.

[23:54] >> Okay. So, then if you know that you're

[23:56] going to put this in with 60,000,

[24:00] why can't you specify a number of

[24:02] magazines? I I've under I I've come to

[24:04] understand that some of these magazines

[24:06] could be mobile that in other words they

[24:09] could be in a day box on a truck.

[24:11] >> So that's I'm just

[24:14] >> Is that not true?

[24:16] >> Well, no. These would not be No. So our trucks do have day boxes that

[24:21] >> the way we work now is our trucks go

[24:23] there when we need to pick up

[24:25] explosives. They take them out of the

[24:27] storage magazines and put them in their

[24:28] day boxes on the truck to get to the job

[24:30] site.

[24:31] >> Okay. So why why can you not specify the

[24:35] number of magazines and where they would

[24:38] be located? I'm and I'm not challenging

[24:40] that. I just don't understand it.

[24:42] >> We just thought it'd be for we did it

[24:45] for simplicity reasons. Uh to be honest,

[24:48] we thought it would be easier to not

[24:50] increase the total uh capacity of the

[24:53] site. We felt it would be easier to just

[24:55] say we're not looking to increase our

[24:57] capacity. We're looking to keep it the

[24:59] same. We're just looking to store uh

[25:02] we're looking for each individual

[25:04] storage unit to have different

[25:05] capacities instead of being locked into

[25:07] nine 20,000lb units.

[25:11] >> Okay. So, what would a scenario look

[25:13] like? What what what's a what's a

[25:15] combination of magazines? What's their

[25:17] different what what would be the most

[25:19] and the least you could have in a

[25:20] magazine?

[25:22] >> Well, so it depends on the capacity and

[25:23] size of magazine. So currently we're only approved to store 180,000 lbs

[25:29] on this site.

[25:30] >> That's right.

[25:31] >> Right. And so we're not looking to

[25:33] increase that capacity. We're just

[25:35] looking to change how we store it. So

[25:38] instead of limiting us to 20,000 lbs per

[25:42] magazine and have up to 9, we would like

[25:45] to have the ability to store a larger

[25:47] capacity in one magazine and then

[25:50] decrease the number of other magazines

[25:52] we would have on the site.

[25:55] Okay. And JP, does that present any kind

[25:58] of an issue for you is if if you were to

[26:01] um envision a fire situation?

[26:05] >> Um, no. I mean, I think as long as we

[26:07] know where the magazines

[26:09] um individual magazine sites are um and

[26:14] I mean conceivably there wouldn't be

[26:15] more than if I if I'm understanding

[26:18] correctly, we're we're probably looking

[26:22] at a maximum of seven magazines. Is that

[26:26] correct?

[26:27] >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. If you take this

[26:29] 60,000 lb silo, then yes, we'd be down

[26:32] to six additional magazines for a total

[26:34] of seven. Okay.

[26:37] >> Okay.

[26:38] >> I think it would it would probably make uh make it a little bit easier for

[26:44] people to understand if we just go with

[26:45] the number seven. I don't know if that

[26:47] would require an amendment to anything

[26:48] or not, but um it just helps better

[26:51] understand. I think there there there is

[26:53] a concern that you know there might be

[26:56] that the number of magazines might

[26:58] actually increase for some reason if you

[27:00] know if it's not limited.

[27:02] Does that make sense to you? I I I I

[27:05] understand what you were saying. You

[27:06] were just trying to keep it simple, but

[27:09] I think that's one of the concerns that

[27:10] people may have had.

[27:12] >> Yeah. And we're fine with that. I I

[27:14] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the

[27:15] day, you know, we're we're limited to

[27:17] the 180,000 pounds. If if we want to

[27:21] specify the permit to be, you know,

[27:22] seven magazines, I I'm completely fine

[27:25] with that.

[27:26] >> Okay. All right. That's Thank you for

[27:28] that. Um

[27:31] Okay. And

[27:35] now as I mentioned, no, let me just

[27:37] stop. Does anybody else have any

[27:38] questions about the structure of this um

[27:42] >> Yes.

[27:43] >> Yeah, I have a question. So, you were

[27:45] describing that you had a containment um

[27:48] area, but I don't see any containment

[27:49] area in this um

[27:51] >> I'm I'm I'm so sorry to interrupt you.

[27:52] Could you identify yourself for our

[27:55] >> Roger Kennedy, 82 Chestnut Plane Road,

[27:57] across the street from all of this?

[28:07] Okay. And can someone answer that?

[28:11] >> Yes. So, it's within that it it's within

[28:14] that shell. You're seeing the outer

[28:17] containment.

[28:19] >> So, the containment is the is an outer

[28:21] jacket.

[28:22] >> Correct.

[28:23] >> And there's an inner jacket.

[28:24] >> Yes.

[28:27] » Okay.

[28:29] What's What is the What is the jacket

[28:31] made of?

[28:32] >> Uh I believe everything is uh carbon

[28:35] steel.

[28:37] Uh let's see here.

[28:39] >> Yeah,

[28:41] it's carbon steel.

[28:43] >> Yes. So

[28:44] I'm familiar with this area over here.

[28:47] There's um the on the map that you

[28:50] showed um because you know I've lived

[28:52] here my whole life at least my my

[28:54] childhood uh life and there's a lot of

[28:57] wetlands um and marshy areas right there

[29:00] in that location

[29:04] right adjacent right next to where that

[29:06] site is.

[29:09] There's a brook that runs through it

[29:14] and you know there there's also a lot of

[29:18] hunting that goes on. I'll say right at

[29:21] that right at that boundary line.

[29:27] » Yeah, I think I would defer to John

[29:28] right it was the plan was b all that was

[29:30] taken into consideration. Um, I would

[29:33] say that the topography that's shown, I see no, you know, indications by the

[29:39] topography of of a, you know, a stream

[29:41] or or brook course uh in that vicinity

[29:45] or anywhere particularly close. Um,

[29:48] >> yeah, there is right there. You'd have

[29:50] to walk it. Uh again I with due

[29:53] deference I I have not been to the site

[29:54] personally but um uh I I don't believe

[29:57] that our survey cruising you know they

[29:59] would have presumably located any sort

[30:01] of water course if it had been

[30:03] encountered in the course of doing the

[30:04] field work. So

[30:06] >> the my name is Mike Moore. The Brooks

[30:09] they run down to Mill River and the Mill

[30:12] River runs into the Connecticut.

[30:16] >> The there there is surface running water

[30:18] on both the north side and right through

[30:20] the center of that property that come

[30:22] down and then cross the driveway and go

[30:24] to the north side of our property which

[30:26] is at the base of all of this. We are at

[30:29] 73 Chestnut Plane Road.

[30:32] >> Yeah. that brook that comes right from

[30:34] there goes right into my property.

[30:37] >> Okay. That is a conservation commission

[30:41] uh requirement then if if you're working

[30:43] in wetlands in that way that requires a

[30:46] hearing with them. Um

[30:50] you're I mean I know you say your

[30:53] surveyors would have presumably found

[30:55] that but that needs to be um absolutely

[31:00] documented.

[31:01] I'm not sure that these areas have been

[31:04] designated a wetlands, but there is a

[31:06] lot of water up there and it's year

[31:09] round. It is not just in the spring when

[31:12] we have meltoff.

[31:17] » Yes.

[31:18] >> Okay. That's not a that's not an issue

[31:20] for the ZBA, but I will say that any

[31:23] permit the ZBA issues will have

[31:25] conditions that it must have have had um

[31:30] you know that every other town

[31:31] requirement will have been met.

[31:35] » Yes. Yeah. And and the grading that will

[31:38] there's really no grading we'll be doing

[31:40] up there to install this. It'll be a

[31:42] flat concrete pad. So the the grading

[31:45] isn't going to change.

[31:48] I have another question about the uh

[31:50] silo.

[31:52] Um, so you're saying that if that thing fully leaks, you have that

[32:00] all contained?

[32:01] >> Yes.

[32:04] >> In the jacket.

[32:06] >> Okay. This is um th this is is this your

[32:10] first time having a liquid an emulsion

[32:14] since your 2013 permit?

[32:16] Uh yes. So our our the the magazines we

[32:20] have there aren't large enough to store

[32:22] this.

[32:23] >> Okay.

[32:24] >> Yes.

[32:24] >> Um so that is that's a different kind of

[32:27] storage and that and as I mentioned at

[32:30] the start of this hearing, this is

[32:32] something we need to look at not just in

[32:34] light of the special permit requirements

[32:36] which your application was very thorough

[32:38] about but also uh in light of the

[32:41] aquifer protection bylaw dis bylaw. Um,

[32:46] so I I see that we do have um and we'll

[32:50] get to that. Um, um, we have Judy Marlin

[32:53] here who is very knowledgeable about

[32:55] that. Um, okay. If you I think you can

[33:01] stop sharing. Does anyone have any more

[33:03] questions about this at all?

[33:05] >> About what? I I have a qu I don't know

[33:08] if this is appropriate time, but um is

[33:11] there a a process for cleanup and

[33:14] notification to the town of any leakage

[33:17] or spills

[33:22] » or damage to the structure for whatever

[33:25] reason?

[33:26] >> Yeah. So, it'll be it'll be inspected

[33:29] every year. Uh it'll have annual

[33:32] maintenance, annual inspections. ATF and state fire marshall uh are on site

[33:37] every year inspecting all our magazines.

[33:39] So it'll it'll have annual inspections

[33:41] and annual maintenance. Uh and then you

[33:44] know the standard protocol would would

[33:46] uh with any spill would would fall to

[33:49] you know haz whopper conditions and uh

[33:51] you know you call the authorities OSHA

[33:54] and and whatnot. um you know any any

[33:58] construction standard spill I would say.

[34:03] » Okay. Um I I would just mention that um

[34:07] it's the building inspector who actually

[34:10] is the enforcement authority for the

[34:12] zoning board's permits. Um and then the

[34:17] fire marshall and ATF

[34:20] are they overlook the explosives part of

[34:23] this. Um,

[34:26] so other other questions on what we've

[34:28] seen so far from any

[34:30] >> we have can we have the petition

[34:33] uh or the petitioner present the the

[34:35] full petition before we jump into the

[34:37] questions?

[34:38] >> Yeah. And so now I can bring that up. I

[34:42] can share that. Um

[34:47] » I mean I have some other questions too.

[34:49] I don't know if it's the right time to

[34:50] ask it about, you know, but this you

[34:52] mentioned.

[34:53] >> I think we'd like I think we'd like to

[34:54] have the presentation first and then the

[34:57] questions so we have the full flavor of

[35:00] what's being requested here.

[35:03] >> Okay. Do you h would you like me to keep

[35:06] scrolling or would you like to um have

[35:08] me go to a particular spot?

[35:13] » Are you addressing that to me?

[35:16] >> Yes. Whoever wants to present this. I

[35:18] mean, I think the narrative might be the

[35:20] most illustrative uh thing to to scroll

[35:22] to. Again, I think I briefly explained

[35:24] the history that it was, you know,

[35:26] originally permitted in 1981, amended in

[35:29] 2013 when Bay State blasting took it

[35:32] over, and I think the narrative does a a

[35:34] reasonably uh good job of of summarizing

[35:37] uh what what is proposed. Okay,

[35:40] >> just getting to that. We've got quite a

[35:43] bit

[35:48] Okay, this is the project narrative.

[35:50] Would you like to just paraphrase it?

[35:53] I mean, we we know the history as you've

[35:55] said. Um,

[35:58] so where would you like

[36:02] I I think you've scrolled by probably

[36:04] the the the most um if you want to go.

[36:08] Yeah, if starting in in the middle of

[36:10] the uh the page there, I mean, if we can

[36:14] just move on to the Bay State blasting

[36:16] uh you know portion of the uh site. Um

[36:20] you know, it speaks to the 2013 special

[36:22] permit uh that was issued um allowing

[36:25] the nine magazines with up to 20,000

[36:29] pounds per magazine. Um and there were

[36:32] some we'll call them housekeeping

[36:34] measures to remove conditions five and

[36:36] six. um which were approved at that

[36:40] time.

[36:43] » Okay.

[36:45] So, condition five said um

[36:51] >> we removed that condition.

[36:53] that expansion

[36:56] in any form will only be allowed under a

[36:59] new special permit. So, so why are we

[37:02] here for a new special permit?

[37:05] We're here for an amendment to the

[37:06] existing special permit

[37:09] because the the

[37:10] >> But I'm asking I'm asking the petitioner

[37:11] though because isn't this an expansion

[37:14] of the existing

[37:17] permit?

[37:18] >> I I I would argue that the we're not

[37:20] increasing the uh volume of material on

[37:23] site. So I I that would be my response

[37:26] in short.

[37:27] >> Okay. So but why do you think you need

[37:29] an amendment?

[37:31] Well, because it states that our

[37:34] magazines have a maximum capacity of

[37:36] 20,000 rounds per magazine.

[37:39] >> Okay. So, it's the it's the specific

[37:41] increase of that one uh the big guy

[37:44] above the 20,000 limit,

[37:46] >> right? That that alone would trigger it.

[37:49] Yes.

[37:49] >> Okay. Thanks.

[37:52] Would

[37:54] you like to move to um your your

[38:00] responses to our special permit

[38:02] requests? I mean our our special permit

[38:04] criteria.

[38:08] » You'd like to to scroll down there. Um

[38:10] my associate Nina Fazio has has prepared

[38:13] this and I think the responses are are

[38:15] succinct and and uh you know

[38:18] >> address them.

[38:21] Okay. So, we do the the applicant has

[38:25] given a response to each of the special

[38:27] permit criteria.

[38:29] Um, and this has been on our website for

[38:33] more than a week. Um, I don't know how

[38:37] you if you want to walk us through it

[38:39] again or how many pe I mean what ZBA

[38:42] members, what do you want to do?

[38:45] >> I'd like them to walk us through it.

[38:47] >> Okay. Yes.

[38:53] Um

[38:55] a in front of you. Uh the proposed

[38:57] project shall comply with the

[38:58] environmental performance standards

[39:00] specified in section 171-15 of this

[39:03] chapter and with all other pro

[39:05] provisions of this chapter. Um

[39:09] the new magazine uh will comply with the

[39:11] performance standards outlined in the

[39:13] section of weight zoning bylaw. Um it's

[39:17] not going to alter the uh intensity or

[39:19] nature of the permitted use um other

[39:22] than the larger uh silo uh that is you

[39:26] know larger than the 20,000 uh maximum

[39:30] that was previously permitted. Um and

[39:33] again as we were discussing earlier the buffer distance from the uh property

[39:38] lines and and the existing site

[39:40] topography and and wooded nature of the

[39:42] site we believe will uh satisfy the that

[39:47] issue.

[39:52] » Um next one B speaks to uh traffic

[39:56] congestion and uh pedestrian safety. Uh

[39:59] I'm presuming and and Mr. Beltazar can

[40:02] certainly jump in, but I I don't think

[40:04] that uh this is going to demonstraably

[40:07] increase the amount of traffic uh going

[40:09] to or from the site again without

[40:11] significant change in in operations uh

[40:14] proposed. Uh you know, it's going to be

[40:16] basically the same operation just with a

[40:18] different material coming in and exiting

[40:20] the site. Uh um would be my my brief

[40:24] explanation of that. Um if Dennis has

[40:27] anything to add, feel free. No, it's there will be no change to the you

[40:32] know to the amount of trucks coming and

[40:34] going

[40:35] >> and similarly uh see you know speaking

[40:38] to uh noise, dust, fumes, gases,

[40:41] radiation or other significant adverse

[40:44] environmental impacts. Again I I would

[40:47] submit that the um use is going to be

[40:50] largely the same with similar vehicles

[40:53] entering and exiting the site just with

[40:55] different material being uh brought in

[40:57] and transferred out.

[41:00] And it also speaks in that uh to the uh

[41:03] the proposed silo that I'm sure it meets

[41:05] all of the you know requirements by uh

[41:08] state and federal regulations for the

[41:09] storage of said materials.

[41:16] Item D um shall not increase erosion,

[41:20] flooding or sedimentation either on site

[41:22] or on neighboring properties consistent

[41:25] with the Massachusetts Wetlands

[41:26] Protection Act. Um the site uh in our

[41:31] narrative we describe how the uh site is

[41:34] going to be

[41:36] silt fence uh and erosion controls will

[41:38] be added prior to the start of any

[41:39] construction as Mr. Beltazar noted. Uh

[41:43] the site preparation will require

[41:45] minimal grading. They're essentially

[41:47] going to be putting this uh pad on on uh

[41:51] existing grade in as much as they can.

[41:54] Um the uh there will be obviously

[41:58] clearing and rubbing of the of the site

[42:00] in order to uh you know create the uh

[42:02] pad as as to to contain the silo. But uh

[42:06] you know it's it's not a very large uh

[42:10] >> pad or or silo. So, you know, we're

[42:11] probably talking about, you know, even

[42:13] with accessing it, you know, a work area

[42:15] of, I don't know, perhaps, you know, 40

[42:17] to 50 feet square would be my best guess

[42:20] to allow for grading and access to uh

[42:23] construct same.

[42:27] And as noted uh we are not aware of any

[42:30] wetlands uh within jurisdiction of the

[42:33] proposed uh you know work but uh again

[42:36] that that is something that as noted by

[42:39] the board we will certainly have to

[42:41] comply with if it is an issue and fully

[42:43] intend to do so.

[42:49] Um item E, proposed projects shall not

[42:52] create significant adverse impact to the

[42:54] quality of surface water or groundwater

[42:56] during and after construction and

[42:59] provision shall be made for maximizing

[43:01] groundwater recharge. Uh we are the only

[43:04] amount of imperous area that we're

[43:06] proposing would be the uh pad that the

[43:08] tank sits on as noted in a prior um

[43:14] uh number excuse me letter D. We are

[43:17] going to be installing silt fence and

[43:19] erosion controls um prior to any

[43:22] construction. So we don't anticipate any

[43:25] uh runoff from the site uh certainly not

[43:28] uh within or onto adjoining properties.

[43:31] And again as noted the uh with the pad

[43:34] uh it's going to be a dimminimous uh you

[43:37] know impact on the amount of imperous

[43:39] area on the site. So the recharge is

[43:41] going to be essentially what it was

[43:43] beforehand. It's not going to change uh

[43:45] you know virtually at all.

[43:49] >> Okay. But but there is if if god forbid

[43:53] this emulsion leaked

[43:55] it it won't leak in leech into the

[43:59] groundwater. Is that correct?

[44:00] >> That is correct. the the silo as uh was

[44:03] discussed and shown on that cut sheet is

[44:05] a you know a doublewalled uh structure

[44:08] to if if the inside were to rupture or

[44:11] leak somehow it would be contained

[44:13] within the outside uh um jacket if you

[44:16] will.

[44:18] >> Okay.

[44:22] >> Can I can I raise one quick question

[44:24] about the um the containment? Um, so I I

[44:28] do understand that it's a double wall

[44:30] tank and and it's basically to pro

[44:32] protect against corrosion from the

[44:34] inside um should it leak. Um, and and I

[44:38] guess would give some measure of

[44:39] protection from the outside from

[44:41] penetration.

[44:42] uh if there is a leak cuz my that's why

[44:44] I asked the original question about a

[44:46] containment uh dyke around the area

[44:48] because if there is a leak in the

[44:50] plumbing or in the valving and it is a

[44:53] liquid

[44:56] presumably that would go unchecked until

[44:59] somebody returned um to the site. Is

[45:02] that a safe assumption?

[45:10] I I would assume that if the leak were

[45:12] to be uh you know outside in in the

[45:14] valve or or um you know I'm not super

[45:17] familiar with the uh proposed uh um

[45:20] structure but that that is probably fair

[45:22] to say. I'm not sure if Dennis has

[45:24] anything further to uh add.

[45:27] Uh yeah, I mean other than redundant

[45:29] valves um you know I the having the

[45:32] containment and redundant valves you

[45:34] know I think you know all the

[45:37] precautions have been made to as is you

[45:40] know as much as you can.

[45:41] >> Um okay that that does raise a concern

[45:45] for me. I mean I realize this business

[45:47] has been in operation for 40 years. We

[45:50] have not had

[45:52] um a breach. But now you're proposing a

[45:56] liquid and the the simple reality is

[46:00] that that this is 100, you know, this is

[46:02] 60,000 lbs of the liquid that is sitting

[46:06] on top of our aquifer. Um, so I don't

[46:09] think

[46:11] I think that there has to be more than

[46:13] just two tanks

[46:16] for safety's sake on this, but I I that

[46:18] I'm raising that now and we can come

[46:20] back to it when we look at the aqua for

[46:22] protection bylaw. Um,

[46:26] >> how often is somebody up there?

[46:30] >> Well, it's, you know, it varies. It

[46:32] could be multiple times a week. Uh, one

[46:34] time a week, could be every day. So, I

[46:37] think the fire chief's question was

[46:39] related to whether there's a alarm

[46:40] system or anything like that, but it

[46:42] sounds like there's not.

[46:44] >> Yes. So, uh that's something we could

[46:46] look into as far as like a leak alarm.

[46:48] All all all the magazines are armed for

[46:50] security reasons. Uh but as far as a

[46:53] leak detection, that's something we

[46:55] could we could look into with our

[46:56] security company.

[46:57] >> What do you mean by armed?

[46:59] >> Uh for security.

[47:02] >> What does the word armed mean? I mean,

[47:04] >> alarm system. It's a It's a security

[47:06] alarm system. So,

[47:08] >> alarmed. Okay. Armed. Alarmed. Okay. Got

[47:10] it.

[47:10] >> I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, they're

[47:14] ti They're tied into emergency response.

[47:17] >> Um,

[47:19] >> so the is there not liquid in the other

[47:22] tanks now? What's in the other tanks?

[47:24] What type of material? We don't know

[47:26] this.

[47:26] >> Oh, so yeah. So, the magazine So,

[47:28] magazine is just I would say a general

[47:30] term uh for something that holds

[47:32] explosives. Uh they can be different

[47:34] shape, sizes. Uh currently we have uh

[47:38] you know uh sticks of dynamite uh which

[47:41] is nitroglycerin. Uh whereas the

[47:44] ammonium nitrate uh emulsion is um you

[47:47] know compared to the nitroglycerin. It's

[47:49] a lot less sensitive. It it it's takes a

[47:52] lot more u energy uh to to ignite than uh uh dynamite the sticks of

[48:00] dynamite. The other magazines have six

[48:02] of dynamite uh lead lines, caps, and

[48:05] boosters.

[48:06] >> All right. So, not liquid.

[48:07] >> Yes. No. Right. So, basically, this is

[48:09] bulk. This would be we'd have a bulk

[48:11] truck that would uh you know remove the emotion from the tank into

[48:17] our bulk truck and go to a job site.

[48:20] >> Okay. That is that's very that's very

[48:22] new from what we approved in 2013.

[48:25] >> Yeah. Versus Yeah. Versus

[48:27] >> Yeah. Whereas right now we're taking

[48:29] we're still going in with trucks and and

[48:30] tra we're manually transporting the

[48:33] material into the day boxes on the

[48:35] truck. Uh here we would be transporting

[48:37] the material into a different truck.

[48:40] >> Yeah. I mean that was one of the um the

[48:42] points I wanted to make because you said

[48:44] there would be no change in the you know

[48:46] in the traffic with the trucks or it

[48:48] would be the same but really that's not

[48:50] true because you're talking about

[48:51] different trucks. you're talking about

[48:53] pump trucks are going to be going in

[48:54] there now that also could potentially

[48:57] leak. I mean, you know, there's once you fill these trucks, right, and

[49:04] assuming there's no leakage when you're

[49:06] actually filming uh filling the truck,

[49:09] um there is the potential that the truck

[49:11] could leak um as it's driving down the

[49:14] road or you know um driving from that

[49:16] site onto the main road. Um, and it is a

[49:19] different type of truck that is

[49:21] generally bigger than the box trucks

[49:24] that you guys have been using.

[49:26] >> Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's definitely

[49:28] >> more wear and tear on the roads and more

[49:30] noise.

[49:33] >> I I mean, I wouldn't say it's more noise

[49:34] than we're going to have less pickups

[49:36] going into the our other magazines. So,

[49:38] I would say it'd be an offset as far as

[49:41] activity and noise goes.

[49:44] Well, I mean, a truck that would like

[49:45] that size is going to have Jake brakes

[49:47] and other engine retarders and things

[49:50] that make noise when it goes down the

[49:51] hill.

[49:52] >> Do you have a picture of the truck?

[49:55] >> I do not. No.

[49:57] >> Are they What's comparable?

[50:01] Uh, I mean, I would say if you, you

[50:04] know, uh, it's, uh, some sort of, um,

[50:07] you know, oil tanker with pumps on it

[50:11] would be something comparable.

[50:15] >> They're definitely bigger trucks and and

[50:18] they make they do make more noise and they're a lot heavier.

[50:22] >> Okay.

[50:24] Yeah, they're all permitted by DOT and

[50:26] we have uh you know, we're licensed to

[50:29] travel on interstate highways and um you

[50:32] know, we have our you know, they're all

[50:35] licensed, inspected, and good to travel

[50:38] on interstate roadways.

[50:40] >> Well, they got to go down a gravel road.

[50:43] I'm familiar with the road that goes up

[50:44] there. Okay. It's all gravel and you

[50:47] know so you know there would be um you

[50:50] know an impact to that potentially to

[50:53] the adjacent properties the neighbors

[50:55] with uh you know whatever disruption

[50:58] that makes with uh having the bigger

[51:00] truck going up and down and like I said

[51:03] it is definitely a noise

[51:05] um increase in noise with those size

[51:08] trucks

[51:09] >> but with a potential leak as well.

[51:12] >> Yeah. I mean again everything's

[51:13] licensed. Yeah, I I mean any anything

[51:16] can leak anywhere at any time, but you

[51:18] know, operations still you know, we

[51:20] still have to operate a business and you

[51:22] know, we just feel that this usage uh

[51:24] really isn't we're we're storing

[51:27] explosives on the site to a maximum

[51:29] capacity. I don't know that there was

[51:31] really any limitations to the type of

[51:33] material. Um

[51:36] >> Yeah. Well, I mean, this is an aquifer

[51:39] as was mentioned before for the whole

[51:41] town.

[51:42] >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. No, we're aware of

[51:44] that.

[51:44] >> Are these your trucks or that you

[51:46] license them from or you rent them from

[51:48] third parties?

[51:50] >> So, no, we would we would be purchasing

[51:52] a truck. It'd be our truck.

[51:55] >> Okay.

[51:55] >> So,

[51:56] >> we we would have one truck that we

[51:58] purchased

[51:59] >> and go from the property to job sites.

[52:03] So, for your uh you re you had a another

[52:07] project last year and uh I bought a

[52:10] decibel meter and your trucks passing by

[52:13] our house. We're reaching about 50 which

[52:18] is the about the limit. So,

[52:22] this whole area is zoned residential

[52:26] agricultural. It's not even zoned as

[52:29] commercial. And a lot of the work and

[52:31] things that go on are commercial and

[52:35] that doesn't seem to be changing. But

[52:37] this adding the large additional larger

[52:40] trucks coming in and out does not sound

[52:42] like it's going to have no impact on

[52:44] what's going on. And it's it's

[52:51] just kind of beyond what's been expected

[52:54] in what had been there for a lot of

[52:57] years, which had not been problematic at

[53:00] that point.

[53:02] >> Okay. Let's let's let them finish.

[53:07] >> Okay.

[53:08] special per and I'm noting everything

[53:10] you're saying about the changes

[53:13] um to

[53:15] >> Can I ask one question though Deborah

[53:17] that's on this topic?

[53:18] >> Sure.

[53:19] >> So Dennis uh I believe that you uh your

[53:24] company has other facilities in other

[53:26] locations.

[53:28] Is that correct?

[53:28] >> Uh no we don't.

[53:31] >> Oh this is the only facility.

[53:32] >> Yes.

[53:33] >> All right then I don't have any other

[53:35] questions.

[53:36] Okay.

[53:42] So, I think you're on F.

[53:45] >> Um, sure. Um, resuming the, um, items

[53:50] here. Uh, project shall be compatible

[53:53] with existing uses and other uses

[53:55] allowed by Wright in the district and

[53:56] shall be designed to be compatible with

[53:58] the character and scale of the

[54:00] neighboring properties. Um, as was just

[54:03] alluded to, um, this, uh, operation is,

[54:07] uh, you know, it's it's we'll say

[54:10] grandfathered. Um, it's a pre-existing

[54:12] nonconforming use at this point under

[54:14] the Weightley zoning bylaw. Um as we

[54:17] have just been discussing also recently

[54:20] um we certainly are of the opinion that

[54:23] the notwithstanding the size of the

[54:26] vehicles that the amount of of traffic

[54:28] and uh you know vehicles entering and

[54:30] exiting the site is going to be

[54:32] essentially the same as uh is currently

[54:36] going on. That there's going to be you

[54:38] know virtually no change in in the

[54:40] operation of the site or or or minimal

[54:43] at best. And it's also um again as noted

[54:47] in further down in there, it's it's uh the site of operations is located

[54:53] well over a thousand ft from any of the

[54:55] existing residences and it's shielded by

[54:58] uh uh the wooded nature of the site.

[55:04] Like I will move on to G.

[55:07] The design of the project shall minimize

[55:09] the visibility of visually degrading

[55:11] elements and protect the neighboring

[55:13] properties from potentially detrimental

[55:15] or offensive uses through the use of

[55:17] screening or vegetated buffer zones. As

[55:20] noted in the prior response, the uh

[55:22] distance from the existing residences

[55:25] and the wooded nature of the site uh is

[55:28] going to preclude probably anybody being

[55:30] able to see uh the proposed new silo.

[55:37] Okay.

[55:49] » H. The design of the project shall

[55:51] minimize earth removal and the volume of

[55:53] cut and fill. Any grade change shall be

[55:55] in keeping with the general appearance

[55:57] of the neighborhood. Again, as I noted

[56:00] in one of the uh well earlier, um there

[56:04] is not going to be uh significant

[56:07] grading of the site. We're going to try

[56:09] and set the uh pad for the silo um as

[56:13] close as we can to existing grade. There

[56:16] will be minimal uh grading around it to

[56:19] allow for a level uh structure, but u

[56:22] we're not going to do any significant

[56:24] cuts or fills anywhere on the site. and

[56:26] any materials will be I'm sure

[56:28] maintained on the site and not trucked

[56:30] off and no material will be brought in

[56:32] to construct the new um silo and pad.

[56:38] » Okay.

[56:42] » I the removal of existing trees and

[56:44] vegetation shall be minimized. If

[56:46] established trees are to be removed,

[56:47] special attention shall be given to the

[56:49] planting of replacement trees. Um, as

[56:53] was noted when we were looking at the

[56:54] site plan, uh, the area in question is,

[56:58] uh, the tree line is, uh, to the north

[57:01] of it. So, I'm sure there's likely some

[57:03] vegetation there that will have to be

[57:05] cleared and grubbed, but um, again, the

[57:08] site is is well, uh, wooded as I

[57:10] understand it. And, uh, you know, there

[57:13] will be obviously we have to maintain

[57:15] some clear area around the uh, the silo

[57:19] and pad. Um but uh as as far as the uh

[57:25] vegetation and buffer zone associated

[57:28] with it, again I think the site is uh uh

[57:30] well established as as a you know a

[57:33] wooded area. So

[57:37] >> okay,

[57:38] >> I'll move on to J. The design of the

[57:40] project shall provide for adequate

[57:42] methods for disposal of sewage, refuse,

[57:44] or other waste generated by the proposed

[57:46] use. Um

[57:51] we are not propo I mean other than uh

[57:53] during construction you know the the

[57:55] silo will be you know accepting uh

[57:58] deliveries on a regular basis and and

[58:00] you know will be uh trucked out in in

[58:03] stages on on the vehicles to uh you know

[58:06] the various work sites in question. Um,

[58:09] you know, as far as any other operations

[58:11] on the site, they are not going to be

[58:13] impacted uh in any significant manner by

[58:16] the proposed new uh silo.

[58:19] >> Is that silo brand new or is it in use

[58:21] elsewhere?

[58:26] » You're muted.

[58:28] >> I'm sorry. Yeah. Uh yeah, it's a used

[58:30] silo that we're buying from one of our

[58:32] uh distributors.

[58:35] >> Do you know how old it is?

[58:37] Uh I I don't

[58:43] » and if that's no further questions, I'll

[58:47] move on to item K. The proposed use will

[58:50] not overload the capacity of public

[58:52] facilities such as water and sewer

[58:53] systems, storm drainage schools, and

[58:55] refuge disposal facilities. As noted in

[58:58] the prior couple of responses, uh this

[59:01] should have a dimminimous effect on the

[59:04] operation of the site and it should not

[59:06] significantly alter the way it's

[59:07] currently running. Um non non-issue as

[59:10] far as I I would uh as far as I can see.

[59:16] >> Okay. So, that is the response to the

[59:19] special permit and we've heard some

[59:21] challenges to

[59:24] um

[59:26] your responses. I maintain my biggest

[59:29] concern remains the fact that there is

[59:31] liquid that could leak into the town's

[59:34] aquifers.

[59:35] Now, with that,

[59:37] >> Deborah, Deborah, can I just interrupt?

[59:38] And it didn't really make me feel good

[59:41] to have Mr. Balthazar say that anything

[59:43] can leak.

[59:44] >> Yes. Yes.

[59:44] >> And it doesn't make me feel good um that

[59:47] it's a used container.

[59:49] >> No,

[59:50] >> I I'm sure it's certified and all that,

[59:52] but those things don't make me feel

[59:54] good. I wonder if there was as much as

[59:56] 60,000 lbs of material that went into

[1:00:00] the upper aquifer of the eastern part of

[1:00:03] town to pollute it forever. Um this is

[1:00:06] just something that I can't

[1:00:09] that sits on our water.

[1:00:12] >> Yes, it does. And we can't minimize

[1:00:16] uh how careful this has to be done. I've

[1:00:20] watched trucks load and unload material

[1:00:22] before. There's always stuff that

[1:00:24] spills.

[1:00:26] >> Yeah.

[1:00:26] >> I don't I I don't want I don't want it

[1:00:28] to be minimized. I I want answers to

[1:00:30] these questions about how we're going to

[1:00:32] be careful if if this gets granted, how

[1:00:35] we're going to be careful about all this

[1:00:37] on our water supply.

[1:00:39] >> No. And and I I could not agree more.

[1:00:42] and not just how if it's possible to be

[1:00:45] as careful as we need to.

[1:00:47] >> Yeah. And I and I and I I'm sorry. Yeah.

[1:00:49] I don't mean to minimize it. Um uh by

[1:00:52] any means. I mean, we're in the business

[1:00:54] of of not having issues, not having

[1:00:56] mistakes because they cost money. Uh but

[1:00:58] you know, it we do have a second

[1:01:00] containment. there's redundant valves

[1:01:02] and we would be open to discussing

[1:01:05] perhaps a third measure of containment

[1:01:08] if if if

[1:01:10] that would make everybody more

[1:01:11] comfortable. I I think at the very least

[1:01:13] we need to see a much more detailed

[1:01:16] safety plan and and that is not that's

[1:01:20] please don't and again I'm aware that

[1:01:22] your business is that this this use has

[1:01:25] been in our town for decades

[1:01:28] and no one is against it per se but this

[1:01:32] is a significant change to the 2013

[1:01:36] permit where we now have a liquid

[1:01:37] emulsion sitting right on top of the

[1:01:40] aquifer.

[1:01:42] And so that is why after going through

[1:01:44] the special permit issue, um, and this

[1:01:47] does not discount the noise and the

[1:01:49] trucks and and those things that could

[1:01:51] make a difference in that area. Um, but

[1:01:56] I, you know, as Bob mentioned, this

[1:01:58] would be beyond catastrophic for this

[1:02:01] town. You know, this this would not this

[1:02:04] would be the water supply. I mean, I

[1:02:07] don't know how familiar folks are with

[1:02:09] what Weightley went through in the 80s.

[1:02:12] We're losing all of its water supply in

[1:02:14] the east. So, that is not something we

[1:02:16] can we can sanction or or take lightly

[1:02:19] again, which is So, at this point, I I

[1:02:23] can stop the share and I have brought up

[1:02:28] uh for another possible share the aquaer

[1:02:32] protection.

[1:02:34] Um,

[1:02:40] okay.

[1:02:42] At this point, I don't uh Judy Marklin is here who has

[1:02:48] done a lot of work with the aquifer and

[1:02:50] she did send a letter to our board with

[1:02:54] her concerns. Judy, do you want to speak

[1:02:57] to that before I show this or do you

[1:03:00] want me to read your letter or?

[1:03:03] >> Well, I think many of my concerns have

[1:03:05] been addressed already, but I didn't

[1:03:08] want to and I should point out that both

[1:03:11] Brandt and Tom Litwin, Tom was one of

[1:03:13] the original authors of

[1:03:15] >> Yes.

[1:03:16] >> and they are they're probably each

[1:03:18] better equipped to deal with it than I.

[1:03:21] But I did want to point out that the

[1:03:24] aquifer protection district has its own

[1:03:26] requirements for special permit

[1:03:28] application which have not been

[1:03:30] addressed.

[1:03:32] >> And I have those to share.

[1:03:34] >> They are lengthy.

[1:03:36] >> Yes.

[1:03:36] >> And and I suspect it would involve

[1:03:40] another you know asking the applicants

[1:03:42] to address those and come back.

[1:03:45] >> But is there a map? Is there a map? Is

[1:03:47] there a map that shows us clearly that

[1:03:50] we are over the aquifer in this

[1:03:51] location?

[1:03:52] >> Yes, there is. Hang on. I'm gonna I'm

[1:03:55] not I may have

[1:03:56] >> It was It was in the application. It's zone two, which is the immediate

[1:04:03] » in their site

[1:04:08] » in their zoning site, they address zone

[1:04:10] two and zone three.

[1:04:11] >> Yep, they do. I think it was toward

[1:04:16] >> it's in a separate on the line. It was

[1:04:17] in a separate attached separate link.

[1:04:21] >> Okay. I thought we had put it into this

[1:04:23] one. If not, I can go out and get it. Um

[1:04:27] just bear with me.

[1:04:31] Okay. I'm going to need to

[1:04:35] um hang on a second.

[1:04:38] Stop the share.

[1:04:42] Okay, hang on. Hang on, hang on, hang

[1:04:44] on.

[1:04:45] >> The joys of technology.

[1:04:47] >> I know.

[1:04:50] Okay.

[1:04:53] There's only so much my screen can hold

[1:04:55] if I load it up in advance.

[1:04:59] Okay.

[1:05:16] that might not be it. Okay,

[1:05:29] let me see.

[1:05:31] I can share this.

[1:05:38] Okay.

[1:05:43] I think we did see this though.

[1:05:47] Let me see if I can make it a little

[1:05:48] bigger.

[1:05:49] >> No, there's there's another one in

[1:05:51] color.

[1:05:52] >> Okay.

[1:05:53] >> And I don't think it's

[1:05:56] >> I believe the map you're looking for is

[1:05:58] included in our our application. Um

[1:06:01] >> I thought that

[1:06:02] >> section 4 locus but just beyond what we

[1:06:05] were going through actually.

[1:06:07] >> Okay.

[1:06:09] I had thought that it was and it's

[1:06:12] beyond these old permits, right?

[1:06:14] >> Well beyond. Yes.

[1:06:15] >> I think it's at the back.

[1:06:17] >> Yeah. Section four.

[1:06:19] >> There it is. Yes. Yep.

[1:06:20] >> Okay.

[1:06:22] So, where Sorry, folks. You see

[1:06:25] where it says zone two and zone three?

[1:06:28] Those are the aquifer protection

[1:06:30] districts. So zone 2 and there's some

[1:06:35] zone three in here as well. So it's

[1:06:38] sitting right there. Zone two is the one

[1:06:41] that flows immediately into the well area,

[1:06:47] >> right?

[1:06:48] >> Zone three flows into zone two.

[1:06:51] And the prohibitions and the the use

[1:06:55] restrictions for each are similar.

[1:06:58] And so on on that note, and Brandt and

[1:07:02] Tom by all means jump in this, I had

[1:07:07] pulled up a few pages

[1:07:10] from the aquaer protection.

[1:07:14] And so you can see that, let me just

[1:07:18] make this a little okay. And the

[1:07:22] bolding, the bolding here is mine. These

[1:07:24] are the prohibited uses.

[1:07:27] And

[1:07:28] so the storage of liquid hazard

[1:07:30] materials and or liquid petroleum unless

[1:07:33] the storage is

[1:07:36] um and so it has all the

[1:07:40] um requirements. So I I would say but

[1:07:43] it's these are substantial.

[1:07:46] Um and I I genuinely believe that given

[1:07:51] this change it should that Judy is right

[1:07:53] that this should have been addressed in

[1:07:55] the application.

[1:07:57] >> Okay. And if you go down to sections G

[1:07:59] and H there's actually a whole separate

[1:08:02] special permit

[1:08:04] application. Um,

[1:08:06] >> G&H

[1:08:09] E F I didn't even bring up G&H, Judy. I

[1:08:12] just

[1:08:12] >> Okay. Well, that's fine because

[1:08:14] >> Yeah, it's it's it's very lengthy. It's

[1:08:16] in our It's in I can show you where it

[1:08:18] is. I can share one more thing. Um, let

[1:08:22] me grab it.

[1:08:26] >> I realized that this was liquid storage.

[1:08:28] I would have I hadn't assumed that.

[1:08:32] Well, frankly, on Monday when I met with

[1:08:34] the fire marshal, he said that it was

[1:08:36] not, which is why I would not have um um

[1:08:40] I would not have waited until this

[1:08:42] moment to tell this to the applicants.

[1:08:44] Um I appreciate the fact that you were

[1:08:46] very honest about it.

[1:08:47] >> Well, and just to clarify, I mean, it

[1:08:49] it's it it it's it's not a true liquid

[1:08:53] in the sense of a free flowing liquid. I

[1:08:55] mean, it it it it's a it's a mixture

[1:08:57] that um you know, it it's more cleaned

[1:09:01] up, you know, with a shovel in a bucket

[1:09:04] than than leaking. Um

[1:09:06] >> yes, but it's an emulsion which is

[1:09:08] liquid.

[1:09:09] >> See, I don't know that for a fact.

[1:09:11] That's a scientific point. I don't know

[1:09:13] the distinction scientifically.

[1:09:16] And

[1:09:17] >> I think that's something we can look

[1:09:18] into.

[1:09:19] >> And I think we need to know that. Um

[1:09:22] because why would the why would the fire

[1:09:23] marshall say it's not a liquid?

[1:09:26] >> He said that it was pellets and that it

[1:09:28] was moved as a pellet to the job site

[1:09:31] and there it became liquefied.

[1:09:33] >> Why would he think that?

[1:09:35] >> I don't know. I do not know. I mean

[1:09:37] >> I'm not asking you per se, but I mean

[1:09:39] >> because the material, you know, in the

[1:09:41] business how we call it bulk liquid,

[1:09:44] right? So, it's perhaps that term that I

[1:09:47] use on a regular basis is not the right

[1:09:50] scientific term. Uh, it it it it's not

[1:09:54] your typical liquid that that spills out

[1:09:57] and and flows like water. It's more of a

[1:10:00] u you know, like I said, it's uh it's picked up with buckets or or

[1:10:04] shovels uh more so than free flowing

[1:10:09] it. So, I I apologize if if that term

[1:10:12] threw everybody off. Well, I I still

[1:10:14] think I mean the zoning bylaws are

[1:10:17] available on the town website, the most

[1:10:19] updated one and you will be able to see

[1:10:26] um

[1:10:29] okay, I guess it didn't bring them all

[1:10:31] up. Um

[1:10:35] you will be able to find the aquifer

[1:10:37] protection. It's its own section.

[1:10:40] And

[1:10:42] I think that

[1:10:44] um I I Well, first of all, do do people

[1:10:48] have other comments or questions?

[1:10:50] >> Um are the Yeah, I'm sorry. I do. Um are

[1:10:54] the uh trucks stored overnight with the chemicals in it?

[1:11:01] >> No, the trucks would not be.

[1:11:04] So when they are finished at the end of

[1:11:06] their project, if the product hasn't

[1:11:09] been completely used on the job, it gets

[1:11:11] repumped back into the silo.

[1:11:14] >> It it the product will all be used on

[1:11:16] the job. Yeah.

[1:11:17] >> Every time.

[1:11:18] >> Yeah.

[1:11:20] >> Now, if it does get in the ground, will

[1:11:22] it melt, be absorbed?

[1:11:26] >> Uh, no. Like I said, you know, it's it's

[1:11:28] not a true liquid where you think of

[1:11:29] water running out of a faucet. It's not

[1:11:31] going to run like water. It it's a very

[1:11:33] thick and and uh easier to pick up with

[1:11:36] a shovel.

[1:11:40] » Yeah. But it has to be pumped. I mean,

[1:11:43] it's a liquid. If it's pumped and you

[1:11:47] know, and if it's spilled and it rains,

[1:11:50] it's going to become very liquid.

[1:11:53] You know, it's like a, you know, I'm

[1:11:55] familiar with explosives. I've worked on

[1:11:57] job sites before. It's like a u it's you

[1:12:01] know it's kind of like mud. It's that's

[1:12:04] what it's like.

[1:12:07] >> Yeah. So again you know we can discuss

[1:12:10] uh uh you know some sort of uh

[1:12:12] containment area uh you know uh some

[1:12:14] sort of a trench around it that can you

[1:12:16] know hold that capacity that would make everybody feel better.

[1:12:22] Well, I think and I'm just one board

[1:12:24] member and we haven't voted on anything,

[1:12:26] but I I think where we're heading is

[1:12:29] that this meeting needs to be a

[1:12:33] continued.

[1:12:34] >> Yes. be that the petitioner the burden's

[1:12:37] on the petitioner to come in with a

[1:12:40] scientific report and may not be maybe

[1:12:42] beyond the scope of expertise of MVC and

[1:12:46] associates with a scientific report from

[1:12:48] someone with uh credentialed expertise

[1:12:52] that will tell us a is it a liquid is it

[1:12:55] not a liquid what's the difference what

[1:12:57] is an emulsion what happens if an

[1:12:59] emulsion spills into the ground and if

[1:13:02] that spill is over an aquifer And until

[1:13:04] all those points are addressed, it's

[1:13:07] premature for this board to have a vote.

[1:13:09] And further, even once we see that

[1:13:11] report, we as a board have a right to

[1:13:14] refer out to a um third party expert uh

[1:13:18] of our own choice that would be paid for

[1:13:20] by the petitioner who would evaluate the

[1:13:22] report of that um that scientist. But

[1:13:24] it's it's and further that the um the

[1:13:29] presentation be amended to address all

[1:13:31] the points in the aquifer protection

[1:13:33] overlay district. Um

[1:13:37] >> thank you Roger. Yes. Um

[1:13:39] >> we need we need some science here not

[1:13:42] just um the good faith effort of your presentation team to tell us what

[1:13:47] you think it it might be but we need we

[1:13:49] need some expertise.

[1:13:56] Bob, Kristen,

[1:13:58] >> agree 100% with Roger.

[1:14:00] >> Yeah.

[1:14:02] >> Okay.

[1:14:03] >> I want to fully understand this.

[1:14:05] >> Yep.

[1:14:06] >> Yeah, that's our problem. We don't fully

[1:14:08] understand it.

[1:14:09] >> Yeah.

[1:14:09] >> We just lay people here.

[1:14:11] >> No, no problem. Yeah, we can we can get

[1:14:13] an expert opinion. That's that's not a

[1:14:15] problem. And

[1:14:18] >> Okay. and to address the uh act of

[1:14:21] protection bylaw that you'll find in the

[1:14:22] zoning zoning bylaw uh the zoning our

[1:14:25] zoning bylaws and you might as well also

[1:14:29] think about additional safety measures.

[1:14:32] Um you had talked about a leak alarm in

[1:14:34] addition to uh multiple layers of

[1:14:37] containment

[1:14:39] um just so that all bases are covered so

[1:14:42] that we have as much information as we

[1:14:43] need to make our decision.

[1:14:46] Um, we can continue this into into our

[1:14:49] next hearing in January. Um, if that

[1:14:51] doesn't give you enough time, we can

[1:14:54] continue it beyond that. We're happy to

[1:14:56] accommodate your time schedule so that

[1:14:58] we get this information.

[1:15:00] >> Yeah. John, do you think that's enough

[1:15:01] time on your end?

[1:15:03] >> I would like to uh yeah, ask for a

[1:15:06] continuence to your next scheduled

[1:15:07] meeting in January. I think we can

[1:15:09] likely address the concerns in that

[1:15:11] amount of time.

[1:15:12] >> Okay, let me just grab a calendar.

[1:15:14] January 8th.

[1:15:15] >> January 8th. Thank you, Bob.

[1:15:18] >> Um,

[1:15:21] >> one last question. I also wanted to just

[1:15:23] double check. Is this going to be

[1:15:25] something that is only going to be

[1:15:27] accessible by Bayate Blasting or are

[1:15:29] there going to be other vendors in there

[1:15:31] to use this on other job sites?

[1:15:34] >> No, we're not selling the product to

[1:15:36] anybody. It's just for our own use.

[1:15:38] >> Okay.

[1:15:40] Does that answer everybody's questions

[1:15:42] before we um have a motion to continue

[1:15:46] this hearing?

[1:15:49] » I would be com more comfortable if there

[1:15:52] were more details on the silo itself or

[1:15:56] you know a cut sheet um some detailing

[1:15:59] on the double

[1:16:01] >> Yep.

[1:16:02] and any information on safety um recognition or designations

[1:16:10] for the silo.

[1:16:12] >> Okay. You you might also want to use

[1:16:14] this time as well just to make

[1:16:16] absolutely sure that you don't need

[1:16:18] conservation commission

[1:16:20] um hearing on that and um and you can

[1:16:24] reach out to their chair um they're on

[1:16:26] our our town's website as well to see

[1:16:28] what you'd need to do for that.

[1:16:30] >> Sure. We have we have staff members on

[1:16:32] site who are

[1:16:33] >> wetland scientists who can inspect uh

[1:16:36] prior to the next meeting certainly.

[1:16:38] >> Okay.

[1:16:39] >> My question is why wouldn't we have

[1:16:41] needed that back in 2013? I mean why

[1:16:43] would the wetland suddenly reappear or suddenly appear um to

[1:16:47] >> I don't know.

[1:16:48] >> It's a new site.

[1:16:50] I mean it's away from some of the other

[1:16:53] magazines.

[1:16:54] >> Oh, how far is it away?

[1:16:56] Well, it's actually we're going to have

[1:16:58] to move some magazines because it's it's

[1:17:00] going to take the place of uh

[1:17:02] >> I'm sorry

[1:17:03] >> where we currently are.

[1:17:04] >> I'm sorry.

[1:17:07] >> Yeah. So, it's it's it's not in a new

[1:17:10] location. We have magazines there

[1:17:11] already.

[1:17:17] » Okay. So, do I have a motion to continue

[1:17:20] this hearing?

[1:17:21] >> Yeah. Could I ask for one more thing?

[1:17:23] So, since there seems to be some

[1:17:25] confusion here, because what I saw on

[1:17:27] the map that they showed is is something

[1:17:29] um different than what I'm, you know,

[1:17:31] kind of hearing now. So, how about if

[1:17:33] you brought some pictures? Um, and then

[1:17:35] also maybe you could give us a a walk

[1:17:38] through of the area so that you know

[1:17:41] people can actually see for themselves

[1:17:43] what I'm talking about when I say that,

[1:17:45] you know, there's um, you know, there's

[1:17:47] a marsh wet area over there and where

[1:17:49] the brook is because it seems like the

[1:17:51] person that did the map there wasn't

[1:17:53] even never even been on the site

[1:17:55] himself.

[1:17:56] So I think it would be helpful to have

[1:17:58] some pictures of what that landscape is

[1:18:01] immediately around that area

[1:18:03] >> and the truck delivery trucks.

[1:18:07] >> Picture of the type of truck. Sure.

[1:18:11] >> And delivery.

[1:18:15] » Oh. Is the delivery truck different than

[1:18:16] the type that takes it out?

[1:18:19] Uh uh no.

[1:18:28] One last I've got one last thing, too.

[1:18:30] Um, what time are the deliveries going

[1:18:33] to be coming in and out

[1:18:36] >> for resupplying the silo if it granted

[1:18:40] >> because right now you all come in and

[1:18:42] out anywhere between two and you know 6

[1:18:46] in the morning.

[1:18:49] >> Yeah, that time would be based on their

[1:18:51] availability. I I don't we don't have

[1:18:53] set times that we it we'd be reaching

[1:18:56] out to our vendors to see when they're

[1:18:58] available.

[1:19:00] >> Okay.

[1:19:03] » Anything else?

[1:19:06] » I move to continue to the January 8th

[1:19:09] hearing date. Second.

[1:19:12] >> Okay. And I So, and now can I have a

[1:19:15] motion to vote on it?

[1:19:17] >> So moved.

[1:19:19] I too move to continue until January.

[1:19:22] Our January hearing.

[1:19:24] Uh, Roger, you're voting.

[1:19:26] >> Yes, I vote fail.

[1:19:28] >> Okay. Um, okay. So, we will reconvene.

[1:19:31] You can continue to send information um

[1:19:34] to our ZBA um mailing address and we

[1:19:38] will post this um and an agenda for our

[1:19:42] January hearing.

[1:19:44] >> Okay. Very good. Thank you for your

[1:19:46] time.

[1:19:47] >> Thank you. Thank you. and ZBA members

[1:19:49] stay. We have minutes to approve.

[1:19:51] >> All right. Thank you.

[1:19:52] >> Thank you. Thank you all.

[1:19:54] >> Good night.

[1:20:02] » Okay. Um I'm going to

[1:20:05] I believe I pulled up these minutes.

[1:20:09] >> Can I ask for like a twominut recess?

[1:20:13] >> Yes. And I can go find the minutes we

[1:20:14] need to approve. Thank you. Okay.

[1:20:21] >> Mute myself here.

[1:20:25] >> Oh, where are those minutes? Okay,

[1:20:30] I will return

[1:20:35] all the tips. Oops. Okay.

[1:21:09] » Hi, I just want to get clarification. Is

[1:21:12] it January 4th that we all agreed on or

[1:21:15] they agreed on?

[1:21:17] >> Uh, is it January 8th?

[1:21:20] >> It's January 8th.

[1:21:22] Yeah, January 8th.

[1:21:24] >> Oh, it was 8th.

[1:21:25] >> Yes.

[1:21:26] >> Oh, okay. Good. I just make sure I got

[1:21:29] that correct.

[1:21:30] >> Yes. And um

[1:21:34] I

[1:21:34] >> that's

[1:21:36] okay.

[1:21:38] >> Yeah. So, do you feel comfortable, Gwen,

[1:21:42] letting um

[1:21:44] Jess know that we're going to need to

[1:21:46] meet on that day and getting the um Zoom

[1:21:49] codes and stuff or do you want me to

[1:21:51] handle that?

[1:21:53] >> No, that's fine. I've been doing it for

[1:21:54] the planning board. That's so I can do

[1:21:57] that.

[1:21:57] >> That'd be great. And then

[1:21:59] >> we won't I won't do an agenda yet

[1:22:01] because you can just send me the codes

[1:22:03] when you get them. I won't do an agenda

[1:22:05] yet because it's still possible we could

[1:22:07] get another hearing come in. Um, so I'll

[1:22:10] do an agenda.

[1:22:12] >> Right. Right.

[1:22:14] >> You've still got

[1:22:14] >> Yeah, I'll set a reminder.

[1:22:16] >> Yeah, that's fine. Just let me I'm using

[1:22:19] my Outlook to do reminders right now of

[1:22:22] like we need what

[1:22:26] is not clicking. Um,

[1:22:36] So, January 8th and then um yeah, I

[1:22:41] would just touch base. Oh, yeah. There's

[1:22:43] also a deadline for agendas that Amy

[1:22:46] just sent out,

[1:22:48] >> right? But yeah,

[1:22:49] >> I just I have to I haven't counted back

[1:22:52] yet for December when we

[1:22:55] um I always go 19 days back from January

[1:22:58] 8th. So, I'll do that tomorrow. you

[1:23:00] know, and and we'll I I saw that agenda

[1:23:02] deadline come through. So, we'll be okay

[1:23:05] because if it's January 8th, you know,

[1:23:07] we only have to have it 48 hours in

[1:23:10] advance. So, the holiday the holiday season will be behind us,

[1:23:16] >> right? For sure. Yeah. Okay. I'll just

[1:23:19] set a reminder for myself December 30th

[1:23:21] to start thinking and asking if there's

[1:23:23] any other materials.

[1:23:25] >> Great. So much time.

[1:23:29] Okay, that is great.

[1:23:33] >> Yeah, this is um

[1:23:38] so I'm trying to I can share I know

[1:23:41] we're waiting for Roger, but um

[1:23:46] okay,

[1:23:50] so well actually Roger doesn't have to

[1:23:52] be here. I mean he can come back, but it

[1:23:54] he was not here for that meeting. So

[1:23:59] Bob and Kristen and I, we're the only

[1:24:01] ones who are Are you still there,

[1:24:03] Kristen?

[1:24:05] >> I I am. Can you hear me?

[1:24:07] >> Yes, I can. So did people have a chance

[1:24:09] to look over these minutes?

[1:24:11] >> I I have

[1:24:14] any any issues?

[1:24:18] >> Everything looked good to me.

[1:24:20] >> Are you good, Bob?

[1:24:21] >> Yep, I am.

[1:24:23] >> All right. So, can I have a motion to

[1:24:25] accept it? I move to I move to accept

[1:24:27] the October 2nd, 2025

[1:24:30] minutes of the virtual meeting as

[1:24:32] written.

[1:24:34] >> And I will second that.

[1:24:35] >> Okay, Roger, you don't have to worry

[1:24:37] about this one because you weren't here.

[1:24:39] Um, okay. So, a motion to vote then.

[1:24:44] » So moved.

[1:24:45] Okay. I voted to accept them

[1:24:47] as well.

[1:24:49] >> Me too.

[1:24:50] >> Me three.

[1:24:52] >> Excellent. So, I will send these on to

[1:24:55] Jessica tomorrow. Thank you for doing

[1:24:58] those, Gwen. Um,

[1:25:00] >> yeah, no problem. If you're going to

[1:25:02] send it to Jessica, does that mean I

[1:25:05] have to post it to agenda, though? I

[1:25:06] have to still send it to

[1:25:07] >> You know what? Why don't you know what?

[1:25:09] I'm going to send it to you and you can

[1:25:11] post it to to agenda. Okay. Will you do

[1:25:13] you have it already?

[1:25:14] >> Yeah. Yeah, because that's I want to

[1:25:17] make sure I got the correct Yeah,

[1:25:18] because I just have to do that with the

[1:25:20] planning board, too. So I'll do that

[1:25:22] like right now. Just send it if

[1:25:23] everybody's fine with it.

[1:25:25] >> Yes.

[1:25:25] >> So I don't forget.

[1:25:27] >> Okay. No, that is perfect. That's

[1:25:29] perfect. So in that case, we are we are

[1:25:32] done.

[1:25:33] >> Okay. And then we are joining. Okay.

[1:25:35] >> Okay. Well, we haven't voted to adjurnn

[1:25:37] yet, but we're about to unless anybody

[1:25:40] anything else.

[1:25:41] >> Could I just ask a question?

[1:25:43] >> Sure.

[1:25:44] uh

[1:25:46] about the the

[1:25:49] uh town water system that that went in

[1:25:52] off of Chestnut Plane Road. Was was that

[1:25:55] done before the permit for the uh

[1:26:00] storage facility there for explosives?

[1:26:02] Was was done? Which which came first,

[1:26:04] the permit for that or the water system?

[1:26:06] So the 1981 permit predates the um the

[1:26:10] building of the water system by 8 years

[1:26:13] I think. So it's 8788 something like

[1:26:17] that is when we um put the water system

[1:26:18] in.

[1:26:20] >> Right. Okay. So so they knew about the

[1:26:22] uh explosive storage back then when the

[1:26:26] water system went in. I get okay what

[1:26:28] you're saying they knew. Well,

[1:26:30] interestingly, the person who worked the

[1:26:33] hardest to install the water system was

[1:26:35] Paul Florio.

[1:26:36] >> Right. I know I realize that. Right.

[1:26:39] >> Right.

[1:26:39] >> At that at that point, it was a vested

[1:26:41] grandfathered use.

[1:26:43] >> Um, and

[1:26:45] >> and there's no in that at all.

[1:26:47] >> Right.

[1:26:47] >> Yeah. And and even in 2013,

[1:26:51] it was it was slightly expanded, but it

[1:26:55] was the same type of a product. you

[1:26:57] know, this is this is a different

[1:26:59] product as as you know, as as they

[1:27:01] openly stated. Um, and again, you know,

[1:27:05] as I said, when the fire the fire

[1:27:07] marshall as I put in my notes to you all

[1:27:09] after that meeting because um I would

[1:27:12] never have not let these folks know that

[1:27:14] they needed to bring more information if

[1:27:17] I had thought they did.

[1:27:18] >> Um, so, okay. So, a motion.

[1:27:22] >> How did the fire chief or the fire

[1:27:24] marshall know what their product is? I

[1:27:27] you know Roger first of all he is the

[1:27:29] person who inspects once a year. He was

[1:27:33] um and he was he was very straight, you

[1:27:36] know, he was very open and he just he

[1:27:38] was very sure of it because I even have

[1:27:40] it in my notes and in fact that very day

[1:27:43] I wrote the next day I wrote it up for

[1:27:45] all of you as a as a also for myself but

[1:27:48] I double checked my notes and he said no

[1:27:50] it would be liqufied on the job site and

[1:27:54] so he might have assumed it based on um

[1:27:58] previous um areas that he inspects But

[1:28:02] >> well that's my point. But did he have

[1:28:04] any information about

[1:28:07] >> I don't know

[1:28:07] >> this petition in other or he's going

[1:28:10] back on what is there now?

[1:28:12] >> Oh yes he was I'm sorry he was he was

[1:28:15] there because the select board had not

[1:28:19] yet determined that JP

[1:28:22] could come to our meeting that there's a

[1:28:24] conflict of interest there. He's now in

[1:28:26] a butter. Uh Lisa Moore is Lisa Floral

[1:28:31] Moore, so she's his cousin. Um and the

[1:28:35] select board last night determined that

[1:28:37] he could act um in his professional

[1:28:40] capacity to advise us. It was, you know,

[1:28:42] it was it obviously it was a tricky

[1:28:44] situation. I think he did a great job.

[1:28:47] Um, so the so so the fire marshall was

[1:28:50] there at the meeting with Pete and Amy

[1:28:53] and me because of the of the pending

[1:28:56] conflict of interest. He was there to

[1:28:58] ask questions. Um, but he was very very

[1:29:01] clear. He said his role was the

[1:29:04] explosives part of it and zoning is the

[1:29:09] purview of us and the building

[1:29:11] inspector. He seemed surprised when I

[1:29:14] said, "I'm asking this because we really

[1:29:17] have to be careful of liquids up there."

[1:29:18] And he said, "Oh, okay." He said, "Well,

[1:29:20] that's zoning. That's planning." But he

[1:29:22] seemed to think that the product itself

[1:29:24] would be pellets.

[1:29:29] >> Okay.

[1:29:31] Any anybody else have any questions

[1:29:33] about it?

[1:29:36] >> No. So, but essentially his advice is, I

[1:29:39] hate to say it, but useless.

[1:29:42] Yeah. And he and he wasn't pretending to be otherwise. He's he would be useful

[1:29:47] in terms of a yearly inspection up there

[1:29:49] for the the explosives, but in terms of

[1:29:52] being aware of the weight history and

[1:29:54] the water situation, I'm not sure that's

[1:29:56] not his

[1:29:57] >> his wheelhouse at all.

[1:29:59] >> Ron.

[1:30:01] >> Okay. All right. So, a motion to

[1:30:03] adjurnn.

[1:30:04] >> So moved.

[1:30:06] >> Seconded.

[1:30:07] >> All right. I'm I'm voting to adjourn.

Whately Zoning Board of Appeals - December 4, 2025

Transcript