[0:45] There.

[0:48] There we go.

[0:50] Next item to set the agenda.

[0:52] Does anybody have anything to add to the agenda or

[0:55] There's a liquor License that

[0:57] We had to add?

[1:00] Put that under the road rehab thing?

[1:04] Yep. And that's the one we received in our packet. Yeah.

[1:11] Came in minutes after you asked me about,

[1:15] Should we put that hammer under there too?

[1:17] What's that? Should we put that hammer

[1:19] on there too? Or just,

[1:20] I think we can talk about that under the

[1:22] Discussion.

[1:23] Okay. Anybody else have everything on the agenda?

[1:29] Okay. I need a motion to prove the agenda is amended.

[1:32] I'll make a motion to approve the agenda as amended

[1:34] Here.

[1:35] Second, I'll second. Motion. Remain seconded. All in favor?

[1:38] Aye. View

[1:42] of open public comments.

[1:43] There's a laminated thing on the shelf up there.

[1:46] If anybody's interested how we conduct the meetings.

[1:48] They can review that. Is there

[1:51] any select board announcements?

[1:53] No. Any public announcements,

[2:01] commissions, committees, trustees, emergency service reports

[2:04] or other board announcements?

[2:10] Okay. Next item is approved warrants.

[2:13] Is there any on needs if you guys can't vote on

[2:16] or should vote

[2:17] On my only?

[2:19] We can. I can't. I don't think I can consider.

[2:21] Vote on 22 1 9 2 and 22 1 9 3.

[2:26] But I have a couple of questions on those.

[2:32] I mean, it's just the payroll. I'm just

[2:34] the payroll. It's not

[2:35] The, the warrants.

[2:36] I'm fine. Okay. So you, you're good on all the warrants

[2:38] Or, well, no, I have a couple of questions on those.

[2:40] I can't vote on them, but I have some questions on them.

[2:42] You still question. So which ones

[2:44] I can vote on?

[2:45] We'll do the ones that you can vote on for

[2:47] 1 91 and one 90.

[2:48] One 90 and 1 91 91

[2:51] And 94.

[2:52] 1 9 90 and one 90. 90 and 91.

[2:55] 90, 91. Okay. Okay.

[2:57] Let's vote on, you have a motion to vote on 22 1 90

[3:02] and 22 1 91.

[3:03] First I make the motion to approve.

[3:08] We second. I'll second. Motion made Second. Any discussion?

[3:14] All in favor? Aye. Aye.

[3:25] Okay, now need a motion on

[3:30] 1 92 and 1 93 for your motion on that.

[3:35] I'll make a a motion to approve those as written there.

[3:39] Second. Second. Motion. Any second? Any discussion, Tyler?

[3:43] Yes. On page two,

[3:48] REM construction was hired

[3:49] for grading on Elm Street and culvert work.

[3:52] I just wanna make sure there was a purpose for

[3:55] that versus the town doing that work.

[3:57] They have a smaller machine. Okay.

[3:59] That would fit better on that street. Okay.

[4:01] So remember that. Okay.

[4:04] That was, that was the question on that one.

[4:07] And it was already signed. That was my other question.

[4:12] Never messaged out again.

[4:14] I can't actually vote on it,

[4:15] but it should least been informed.

[4:19] You guys came in and signed it a couple weeks ago.

[4:22] But you still have to approve it.

[4:23] I mean Yeah, but I didn't,

[4:24] I don't know if we ever got the message of full.

[4:27] Maybe we did get a message. I don't know. I hope so.

[4:29] I don't remember getting Everybody else came in.

[4:31] Yeah, I'm, I'm pretty sure you did. Okay.

[4:33] Maybe I, I could have gotten the message.

[4:35] I just, I didn't pick up on it. Yeah, just wanna make sure.

[4:37] I'm pretty sure you did.

[4:40] I got message when ready? Yeah.

[4:44] Anybody else have this one?

[4:46] And then for 1 93, first page, BTV.

[4:52] We have a first quarter web streaming payment

[4:55] of $895 and 50 cents.

[4:57] I looked at the budget from 2025 fiscal year and 2026.

[5:02] And those have both been approved to $0.

[5:04] So where's that money actually coming from?

[5:07] We we're just gonna pay it. He was doing it for free. Okay.

[5:10] He just didn't tell us. Okay.

[5:11] So we're paying for the stuff that he's hosted by far.

[5:15] That's fine. I just wanted to make sure.

[5:16] Yeah, it's not gonna put us over on any budgets, but Okay.

[5:19] We, we do need to pay for his services. Yeah, that's fine.

[5:22] They just, so next time, I guess next year we have

[5:24] to make sure we put somebody in there

[5:25] so we're gonna make sure we budget it for or going forward.

[5:29] And this isn't, wouldn't be for recording though.

[5:33] It would be for posting it, right? Correct. Okay. Yeah.

[5:37] No, I'm recording that. Yeah. Yeah.

[5:39] But the, the account is coming out of, like I said, yeah,

[5:41] I looked at both the budgets

[5:43] and then I think it was explained

[5:46] that the firetruck replacement looked quite expensive.

[5:49] That just comes out of its own special account.

[5:51] Again, it just wasn't listed. Yeah.

[5:52] It's a reserve account that was listed.

[5:53] Just wanna make sure that, like I said,

[5:55] for all the citizens, I just recommend that all

[5:58] of us selectmen have every account so we know

[5:59] where the money's actually coming from.

[6:01] Because I looked at, I, I made a, I made a list for all

[6:03] of us that every citizen sees in the town book.

[6:07] I just put all the account numbers next to it

[6:09] and that one wasn't showing up.

[6:10] So wanna make sure. Actually,

[6:13] No, I also questioned that one.

[6:15] I asked him before we started the meeting

[6:17] and it was, that came outta the reserve fund.

[6:19] It's a large amount of money.

[6:21] I wanna know where it came from.

[6:22] Oh, and then page three, kind

[6:27] of midway down the page.

[6:29] Which one you on? 93.

[6:32] 93? Yeah. 93.

[6:34] It's VLCT Passive Greg Donahue.

[6:38] Ice Town off un unanticipated expense. What is that?

[6:42] Just during the winter when Greg was driving to go

[6:45] to our back parking lot.

[6:47] Okay. Snow and ice came off,

[6:48] Destroyed the roof.

[6:49] Yep. That's alright. That's fine.

[6:51] I just, well, I'm gonna be honest with people with

[6:54] what people call ice Now,

[6:56] I wasn't sure if the town had done something

[6:58] or if people were protesting ice.

[6:59] That's where I felt that money was.

[7:02] Well he was definitely protesting the

[7:04] Ice. 'cause it's

[7:04] All, it's in all capitals

[7:06] So that's our thousand dollars is our Okay,

[7:09] That's fine.

[7:10] Yeah, no, I remember talking about that. Yeah.

[7:14] You made the unfortunate wrong move. Yeah.

[7:17] The timing of that was crazy. Yeah, no I know.

[7:19] In out there all day.

[7:21] Yeah. I just, like I said,

[7:22] everything I read in the news about ice,

[7:24] I didn't think it was actually physical

[7:25] ice. I thought it was something gonna do.

[7:26] The poor guy was so shaken up,

[7:27] he couldn't tell me his phone number

[7:28] or where he lived. Yep. Or anything.

[7:31] And this, the policy now is if

[7:33] there's snow rice on the roof,

[7:35] cones are going out to the back parking lot. Yeah.

[7:37] We'll have signage up and we'll have all that

[7:39] Stuff back.

[7:40] Your car there, you can't get through. Yeah.

[7:43] Yeah. You put in. No,

[7:47] That's all I had on it.

[7:49] Everybody else all set? Yeah. Okay. All in favor? Aye.

[7:54] Aye. Opposed?

[7:56] Abstain Favor warrants.

[8:01] I have to abstain from five 17.

[8:06] I have to, I have to abstain from 5 31.

[8:09] You're on 5 31? I'm on five 17. Five 17.

[8:12] Okay, let's, we'll do five 17 first.

[8:16] We have a motion on five 17 payroll warrant.

[8:18] I'll make a motion as written.

[8:21] Second Motion. Ba second. Any discussion on that?

[8:26] All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay.

[8:31] Next one's 5 31. Have a motion on that.

[8:37] Motion will approve. Is read.

[8:39] We second? I'll second. Motion made Second.

[8:44] Any discussion? All in favor? Aye.

[8:49] I. I abstain.

[8:58] Okay. Next item. Approve the select board meeting in

[9:01] minutes of five 11.

[9:09] Second motion on that. Make motion to accept.

[9:13] Second Mr. Bacon. Second. Any discussion on the minutes?

[9:16] I did some, did we get the,

[9:18] did they get the newer version? Yeah, I saw the

[9:21] One you'll sign will be the one that

[9:22] You, okay.

[9:23] There was I've, I've made some grammatical changes.

[9:25] It's like, for example, the first page,

[9:27] it just says Youth sports association.

[9:29] The second page says Williamstown Youth Sports Association

[9:32] to make sure they all say Williamstown Youth Sports.

[9:34] And then I think the only other big thing was

[9:39] after executive session, the vote was

[9:42] put down on the minutes.

[9:43] Correct? Yep. Okay.

[9:45] That was not on the original minutes,

[9:46] but the vote was there.

[9:49] Okay.

[9:50] So this is amended version.

[9:52] Yeah. You look at this on the amended

[9:54] Version.

[9:55] I don't think, did I, did I fix anything else?

[9:57] I think there was just some

[9:58] grammatical stuff other than that

[10:00] Was Then you were questioning whether

[10:01] or not what happened over at the dog over

[10:03] At sea?

[10:04] Yeah. Sea Field. Yeah. Yep.

[10:05] Which that was a dog defecating on the field.

[10:08] That was, I thought we discussed other issues.

[10:10] Okay. So,

[10:13] okay. All in favor of minutes.

[10:16] Well, so we, should I make a that we vote as amended?

[10:24] Are the, because this, this one, this one has the,

[10:26] Okay.

[10:27] Maybe you got so you guys should, okay.

[10:29] Maybe I just didn't, maybe I didn't get

[10:30] that one because I brought it in.

[10:32] Does does your last page have the thing?

[10:35] Oh no, no. I guess I do have it. Note one. I don't. Sorry.

[10:37] Yeah, my bad. But it's still missing.

[10:40] This one's still missing Williamstown. On the first page.

[10:44] Yeah, it says the use for, so

[10:46] She, that's Three.

[10:48] Three lanes up from the bottom.

[10:51] Oh yeah,

[10:56] That one's there.

[10:57] And then that one's there.

[10:59] Second line down April, 2024 six. Middle sentence.

[11:03] It says Youth force association.

[11:06] Oh. Two different spots. Two different spots.

[11:08] There a second line down and third by

[11:10] Line. It's on that one.

[11:11] Okay. Okay. So

[11:13] Set. That's why.

[11:14] So do we still need to say as amended? I

[11:16] Would just probably ASD as Amended.

[11:19] Okay. In favor? Aye. Aye.

[11:25] Next item in is manager's report. Ryan.

[11:29] Okay.

[11:35] Alright. We had an unannounced audit from Shaw,

[11:39] which is the Mine Safety

[11:41] and Health Administration, which is the branch

[11:43] of the Federal Department of Labor.

[11:45] And we received five citations

[11:47] for not having a safety berm at the gravel pit entrance.

[11:52] No available training plan upon requests.

[11:55] No available safety program for the mobile equipment

[11:58] and not updating contact info when town leadership changed

[12:04] and not having a record

[12:05] of the screening equipment at the pit.

[12:06] Having gone through an annual continuity

[12:09] and resistance test, the inspector was understanding

[12:13] of our current situation of having myself

[12:16] and elwyn in new leadership roles.

[12:19] And he has given us until six 15 to correct these violations

[12:23] so that we aren't fined.

[12:25] I've already completed three of the five

[12:28] and fixing the other two violations will be achievable

[12:31] in the time that's left.

[12:34] It's mostly paperwork stuff

[12:35] and I had an electrician go out Friday to

[12:41] test the screener.

[12:43] So once I get his report I can give that

[12:45] to the auditor.

[12:49] So we won't, we won't end up with any fines.

[12:51] I'll have it all fixed. It was just paperwork

[12:53] stuff that we couldn't find.

[12:56] And then as we were dealing with stuff in the pit,

[12:59] the new rope foreman Elwin would like

[13:01] to know the board's thoughts on potentially shutting down

[13:04] the pit at some point

[13:05] and purchasing when we're saying instead he doesn't like the

[13:08] quality of the, of the material that comes out of the pit

[13:12] after it's screened.

[13:15] But I don't know anything about that stuff.

[13:17] So what, where is the pit? Where it pikes is?

[13:22] Mike Pikes is

[13:24] Same entrance on the right.

[13:28] I can tell you that the down brookfield's paying about

[13:31] $80,000 a year for 3,400 yards of sand.

[13:34] So, alright. So we can't do that this year.

[13:37] I think we should keep the pit

[13:38] Can't do that this year.

[13:40] All the other towns around are buying stuff

[13:42] because we can't find it anywhere.

[13:44] It's very scarce. Gotcha.

[13:46] I think we should, should do as long as we can

[13:50] Screens well. Yeah, I was

[13:52] Ask is there, is it an equipment issue?

[13:54] Is there, he doesn't like the quality

[13:56] of the material after it's screened.

[13:58] So it's not that there's, he said we're putting bad material

[14:01] on the roads and just building up.

[14:03] But that was his opinion

[14:05] and he wanted to know anyone else's thoughts

[14:06] and I don't really, I don't know. Good.

[14:10] You have to be careful where they're digging in the pit.

[14:12] There are some areas that it's real silty stuff you don't

[14:14] want to have, but there are some good, good things too.

[14:17] Yeah. He's got to not use the to

[14:21] used, well ed fire numbers was running.

[14:23] You had to pile, you put all the junk in

[14:26] and fill in the holes later with it.

[14:28] Not just run everything

[14:29] through the screen like they've been doing.

[14:32] It's easier. Might

[14:33] Be a little, you saying it's a little

[14:35] operator error? Yeah.

[14:36] I assume. I know why he wants to get rid of it

[14:38] because that only reason him show's

[14:40] down there is 'cause of the screen.

[14:42] Yeah. That's it. That's the only thing that

[14:44] We're considered a mine.

[14:45] We're not, you know,

[14:47] We have a screen, anytime we go anywhere

[14:49] and do stuff for something else,

[14:50] we're supposed to report it to them.

[14:52] Yeah. So they come check if they want it. Yeah.

[14:58] We need to set a date for Dave

[15:00] while there's public hearing.

[15:03] I did suggest a couple dates here,

[15:05] but I heard back from his lawyer that

[15:09] he would prefer it be in July and not in June.

[15:13] So he can have time to line things up.

[15:15] So I don't know if that's something we want

[15:16] to do at our next regular meeting the second Monday of July

[15:22] or if anybody had any thoughts

[15:24] or we can, we can always schedule it at some other time.

[15:28] We wouldn't know the,

[15:29] what's the date for the July meeting?

[15:31] 13th. 13th? Yeah. 13th. Yeah.

[15:33] I mean that's after the fourth.

[15:34] Everybody should be aware of that. Yeah. And do it, do it.

[15:38] The regular meeting. I suggest that. Yeah.

[15:41] I don't see why we have to have an extra

[15:42] I'm I'm gone that week.

[15:44] No, That

[15:46] We could have a special one. I mean, if

[15:48] You want the only, the only day

[15:49] of July I'm available is the sixth.

[15:51] It's up to, I'm going every other one.

[15:52] I'm, I'm available sixth on the 13th.

[15:54] Are you talking about Mondays? Yeah.

[15:56] Okay. But if we wanna do a i i am available July 6th

[16:00] and then or July 13th, July 20th and 27th.

[16:02] I'm outta state.

[16:05] I could do the sixth. The sixth? It's

[16:09] The of July.

[16:10] It is the first Monday of July.

[16:11] The first Monday. Oh, it's your parent thing. Okay.

[16:17] I did not know his birthday either.

[16:19] I, I don't care.

[16:22] So you guys wanna do it without me? Go for it.

[16:24] And, and if it happens my birthday, you'll have it

[16:25] before Monday I think.

[16:27] Okay. Anyway, I'm fine with whatever, either way. Whatever

[16:32] I, I'm good with either day.

[16:34] So

[16:35] You really want to be here.

[16:39] I mean It's up to you.

[16:46] I You say yes or no.

[16:48] I kind of like to be Okay.

[16:50] Do it on the sixth that work for you

[16:51] Guys, but Well, do you want do it do we,

[16:53] do we do it on a different day of the week?

[16:55] Yeah. I Mean we can do, I can do other days

[16:58] and Mondays I just can't.

[16:59] I'm gone from the 12th through the 16th

[17:05] so what in July so I can do it

[17:07] Do like a following Monday or whatever.

[17:12] Tyler's gone finally Mondays

[17:14] but not, not that it necessarily has to be a Monday for, it

[17:17] Doesn't have to be Monday for me.

[17:18] You know what I mean? As

[17:19] Long as it's seven o'clock or after.

[17:21] Right. I'm here. 'cause no matter what,

[17:23] those are the hours that I don't

[17:24] Have.

[17:25] So when are you gonna get back?

[17:26] I'll, I'll be back the 16th. What day is that?

[17:29] A Thursday. Thursday? Yep.

[17:32] That works for me. There's

[17:33] loading nothing on my calendar. So

[17:34] Does that work for you?

[17:35] Yeah. That you Oh yeah. Work for review.

[17:40] Text me July.

[17:42] July 16th. 16

[17:44] 16th.

[17:46] July. Kelly she'll be there.

[17:49] Will she need to be there as well? Yes.

[17:52] We'll have to talk about that.

[17:54] Check her schedule too. Yeah. Does that work for you?

[17:58] Okay, we're good. Okay.

[18:01] And is it here at seven? It'll be here at seven.

[18:04] At seven o'clock. When are we check away

[18:09] and make sure you ain't got something

[18:10] going on that night in.

[18:18] Okay. We were able to get the water bills out in time

[18:22] but we had to use an average reading rather

[18:24] than the actual reading.

[18:25] Due to not having the required software on my workstation

[18:29] and not being able to find a workaround in time.

[18:33] Have reached out to EJ Prescott

[18:35] and set up a meeting with their SRU meter sales person

[18:38] to talk about a better path forward

[18:40] for us in the meter reading department.

[18:44] They're going to help us with it support

[18:47] so we can avoid paying census the $4,000

[18:50] they want just for their help.

[18:53] And then we can plan to upgrade the meters as we have

[18:56] to replace them with the latest technology.

[18:58] The meters that will make reading them faster and easier.

[19:02] The ones they make now come standard with like a,

[19:07] basically a little Bluetooth radio unit.

[19:09] And Allen when he's doing his readings doesn't have

[19:12] to go up to each property.

[19:14] He can read it from the end of the driveways

[19:16] as, as we replace 'em.

[19:17] We wouldn't do a mass replacement

[19:18] 'cause that would be super expensive.

[19:20] But,

[19:22] And and this will work with the current meters?

[19:26] Yes. It'll work with the current meters.

[19:28] So the software we used to use

[19:31] to do readings is being phased out.

[19:33] So we would have to change either way

[19:37] rather than buy a very expensive scanner like the one we

[19:40] have now cost the town $16,000.

[19:42] We would just get a Samsung tablet

[19:46] for a couple hundred bucks,

[19:47] put a little widget thing on it and we'd be good to go.

[19:53] So I'll, I'll have a meeting with them

[19:55] and see what our options are and and update you guys.

[19:58] Okay. On that note, that little demeanor

[20:01] that you're talking, is that one that was, was taken

[20:05] before as we get, is

[20:07] that the same thing you're talking about?

[20:09] My, the workstation that we needed with the software on

[20:12] that, that was taken unless

[20:14] The police evidence.

[20:15] And has that been returned yet?

[20:16] It has not been returned. Second.

[20:18] I can't get anyone to talk to

[20:19] Me.

[20:20] Okay. Second question on, on that.

[20:22] This new upgrade

[20:23] or these new meters installed, is that just,

[20:28] will that be coming out of our budget somewhere

[20:31] or that's not gonna affect their homeowners?

[20:35] No. Separately. They're not gonna get a belt

[20:37] for any of this stuff, right? No,

[20:38] I'm not talking about a mass meter replacement.

[20:40] I'm just saying as meters fail

[20:42] or as we get new people coming in,

[20:45] we would just buy these newer ones rather than the

[20:48] ones we've been sticking with.

[20:50] So we've slowly replaced them.

[20:52] Okay. But no, but no existing cost. No it's not

[20:56] Homeowner.

[20:57] No it's not cost or

[20:59] Anything.

[21:00] So do you need that stuff that they got?

[21:01] I don't, I don't need it.

[21:02] You don't need the water bell's over.

[21:04] These guys will hook me up with a way to read

[21:07] before we have to read again in October.

[21:10] Yeah. Okay. So

[21:17] I'm still receiving positive results from

[21:19] my phone app survey.

[21:21] The company is willing to lower the initial year's price,

[21:24] the 3,600 from 3,900

[21:27] unless anyone has any objectives I can move forward

[21:30] and that won have project going

[21:33] and use the money from this year's budget

[21:35] before it turns over to our new fiscal.

[21:45] There's a three acre stormwater permitting project

[21:47] that has been in the works over the past couple years

[21:50] concerning the business center and the commercial center.

[21:53] And we need to have the design stage wrapped up

[21:55] by August at the latest.

[21:57] So this requires the town to pay a $16,520 impact fee

[22:02] for the business center and a $57,525

[22:07] impact fee for the commercial center just

[22:09] to get those permits.

[22:12] The town is applied for a grant to,

[22:15] well it's two grants technically to help cover the design

[22:17] and the impact fee costs.

[22:19] They won't fully cover the combined impact fees

[22:22] however, so the town will be on the hook for roughly $23,000

[22:26] after reimbursement.

[22:28] I worked with the treasurer's office today.

[22:32] We will have enough surplus to cover that $23,000 this year

[22:37] to just go ahead and pay those

[22:39] and then it won't impact the new financial year's budgets.

[22:45] So we'll, we'll just end up using the,

[22:47] the surplus from this year's. And

[22:49] This is just for design and permitting?

[22:52] Yeah, so in the, in the business center

[22:58] there's a design that's been made

[23:00] to put in basically like these big, almost like dry wells.

[23:03] Yeah, I remember that. Had some rain

[23:04] gardens and stuff like that.

[23:05] You capture the storm water. Yeah.

[23:08] It doesn't capture everything the state wants us to capture.

[23:10] So then we have to pay a $16,000 impact fee.

[23:13] 'cause we didn't quite make the finish line.

[23:16] And then in the commercial center we can't,

[23:19] you can't really build anything

[23:20] where all the swap is and all that stuff.

[23:22] So pay a much bigger fine. Okay.

[23:24] Yeah this is a one time fine though.

[23:26] It's not looking every year thing.

[23:28] Well one time for now.

[23:30] One one time until they change their mind.

[23:32] But just so there's enough people in here

[23:34] that they're understanding that where this money is,

[23:38] the state of Vermont is causing this situation.

[23:41] State of Vermont approved Buffalo's projects. Exactly,

[23:45] Exactly.

[23:46] Begin with then they decide

[23:47] they wanna do something different.

[23:49] Yeah. Yeah. All has to do with act two 50 stuff

[23:54] ties into the flood insurance program

[23:57] and everybody wants to cut.

[23:59] Oh yeah. I mean we're on the hook for it and

[24:04] I know what they do.

[24:05] If you just owe me, weren't gonna pay it.

[24:07] I dunno. I don't know. Take your swamp. I don't know

[24:10] What gonna do.

[24:12] We wouldn't get the permits so then we can, I

[24:14] Know there's a lot of towns.

[24:15] I like to tell em that. I've heard it from

[24:16] several different towns there.

[24:18] Arms about it. We had a band together

[24:20] and say we don't do it.

[24:23] Yeah. Really? She might think differently. I don't know.

[24:30] Give herself a guess on that one.

[24:33] Our deco tax total is $215,181

[24:37] and we recovered $13,467 this past past month.

[24:43] And our delinquent utility total is $31,524.

[24:47] Not accounting for the bills

[24:48] that just went out since they have 30 days to pay those.

[24:52] We have recovered $1,464 this past month.

[25:02] Anyone else have any questions or comments for Ryan?

[25:06] I was gonna say make a motion

[25:08] to have the phone app created.

[25:11] Okay.

[25:15] I second that. Yeah, I'll second it.

[25:17] I guess everybody likes that

[25:19] same discussion. Just quick

[25:22] Question on how do, how many like

[25:24] responses have you like, have they

[25:26] Filled Out physical responses?

[25:28] I've got almost 30 now. Yeah.

[25:30] 'cause I have 'em at the front desk as they

[25:32] come into the town clerks.

[25:33] Yeah. And then I got like 80 something on

[25:35] the Facebook post they made.

[25:36] Yeah. And I edited those to make it clear that it's free

[25:41] to download and use, but it cost the,

[25:44] Okay.

[25:45] And it was after that update people were

[25:46] Still Yep.

[25:47] I didn't hear any negative responses

[25:49] from any of that stuff, so.

[25:52] Yeah. Sounds like everybody likes this.

[25:56] The responses are, he didn't say what that was. Huh?

[25:58] He didn't say what the responses. Were they positive?

[26:02] Positive? He said they're, they're positive. Oh, positive.

[26:04] Yeah. Positive. Yeah. Open one more avenue for people to get

[26:07] Information.

[26:08] I have the little, the little app icon

[26:09] could be Scott's face.

[26:11] Smiling face. That's

[26:15] Good.

[26:16] Yep. Yep.

[26:19] That's different number than I get. Okay.

[26:24] All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed?

[26:30] Thank you Ryan. Okay, up next is a

[26:34] hearing on a nuisance dog on one 40 Casino Road.

[26:39] Yep. So

[26:42] Anna, did they, do you guys have the printout,

[26:46] the statements, et cetera?

[26:48] I, I didn't print out all the papers, yes. But okay.

[26:50] The initial email that summarizes everything.

[26:54] Yes. So, so I don't know if you've had a chance

[26:56] to read it, but I was notified

[27:00] by Patricia Pierce who lives at the end of Casino Road

[27:04] on the 29th that her

[27:08] and her neighbor at the end of Casino Road lost a total

[27:13] of 12 birds,

[27:18] eight hens and four Guinea hands.

[27:22] And Dale Vander Bloom, who lives on the end of

[27:25] that road has a security camera up.

[27:28] And so there was video footage as well as

[27:34] Erin, who also lives at the end of the road,

[27:35] has it on her security as well.

[27:39] Brought him away to Keita type dog.

[27:43] I think it was there from like between 3:00 AM to

[27:47] six 30 ish am

[27:49] just wiping out the bird population.

[27:55] And I recognized the dog

[28:00] because I had written a ticket for running loose four days

[28:04] after the last select board meeting that we had

[28:08] regarding dogs running loose from the one

[28:10] 40 casino or property.

[28:14] I went on the Facebook page, there is a,

[28:19] I think it's from 20,

[28:25] I think it's from 2022, a photo

[28:29] of the dog advertised for adoption.

[28:32] It does say on there aggressive with dog,

[28:37] other dogs, cats, chickens.

[28:40] It actually says, would like fresh chicken prefer its meals

[28:45] or something catchy like that.

[28:48] So it's on the Facebook page there as well.

[28:53] I contacted the Sheriff Orange County Sheriff's Department,

[28:59] I, and that what you have from me is what I sent to them

[29:03] with a bunch of photos of the massacre as well as

[29:09] the security footage that shows the dog

[29:12] entering the chicken coop.

[29:16] And he, I sent him with the bill, well I met with

[29:21] with Patricia and Dale

[29:23] and got the bill that they would want paid.

[29:28] Obviously that's not something I can enforce.

[29:32] I sent it with the sheriff.

[29:35] He went, he notified her and told her that her dog did that.

[29:41] And she claimed she didn't know that.

[29:45] I don't know whether she didn't know he was out

[29:46] or she didn't know that he did it.

[29:50] But neither Patricia or Dale have heard from her.

[29:56] So the sheriff said they would have to sue civilly

[29:59] to get back that, you know, the money for

[30:04] those, those animals.

[30:08] So as a

[30:13] neighborhood, I think they're getting

[30:18] more tired of this.

[30:20] And now this is the second time

[30:23] that specific dog has been out the, she's up to,

[30:28] so in August of last year

[30:30] after the last hearing, it was a $500 ticket.

[30:35] It's another $500 ticket,

[30:39] which I, I did send.

[30:43] And I think we have

[30:47] to figure out something for that.

[30:49] For, I, I think the meeting has to be twofold.

[30:52] We have to figure out something to do about

[30:54] that specific dog

[30:55] because it's clear that she can't contain it.

[30:58] And when it gets out, it causes a lot of damage.

[31:01] The first time it got out, it went the other direction.

[31:04] So it turned left and ended up on Hebert Road

[31:08] and somebody with two small children found it.

[31:10] They sent me a picture of their kids like hugging it,

[31:14] which could have ended horribly.

[31:18] And this time when it got out, it, it went to

[31:23] that direction and went in the barn in the coops.

[31:26] It, it's not like they were free roaming.

[31:32] So, and then I also think something needs to be addressed

[31:35] as far as the continuous dog trying loose,

[31:40] not just that specific dog,

[31:42] but whether we come up with a, a plan

[31:46] where dogs, her dogs need

[31:51] to be on leash or I mean the, I, I don't know,

[31:56] but specifically this dog is the priority

[32:00] because if it gets out again, I can tell you right

[32:03] where it's going because it had a field day.

[32:08] You know, it didn't eat them.

[32:11] It just mangled them, mangled them all, you know.

[32:17] So, and, and clearly money is not a deterrent.

[32:22] I mean, has she been paying the fines? That I don't know.

[32:26] 'cause that goes, it goes to the state. I don't know.

[32:32] I assume so. Or, or at least she's not fighting the ticket.

[32:36] 'cause I would be, I believe I'd be notified of that.

[32:38] 'cause I would've to go to court.

[32:40] The fines go to the state.

[32:42] Well, they're sent to White River is

[32:46] where Oh, it gets sent to.

[32:49] Okay. So I don't, I don't know how it's divvied up

[32:53] or what, you know how that goes.

[32:56] I don't know. But I can't go higher than 500

[33:01] with the municipal tickets.

[33:03] I, I read the ordinance.

[33:07] I, it was a few weeks back I had to run across.

[33:09] George Contour said, he said that they were going up there

[33:11] to round up some dogs,

[33:12] but the state was gonna allow her to keep 40 of 'em.

[33:16] She's allowed to keep, so the,

[33:17] so the state allowed 49 dogs.

[33:21] 49, 12 cats. 11 chickens. So

[33:25] She's got chickens here, dog eat, eating those.

[33:28] She has an electric that surround hers.

[33:33] And I, I do think some in the times

[33:37] that she's had the chickens, probably some have been caught.

[33:42] And then, well I know that for a fact. Yeah.

[33:44] That hers have been caught. Yeah. Okay. And killed by dogs.

[33:48] Dogs, okay. And then she just replenishes 'em, I guess.

[33:50] I don't know. Yeah. I don't know.

[33:53] But as you know, this dog's on video.

[34:00] There's no, you know, denying who it is.

[34:03] You can, you can see it clear as day in the video

[34:06] and you can see it walking into the cou.

[34:11] So I think, I mean I, I can let the neighbors talk as far

[34:15] as what their comfort level is with that dog loose

[34:19] that specific dog.

[34:23] You know, I don't know if, yeah,

[34:25] I mean I I mean I have it on my camera hours before.

[34:29] I think it was on your, it, it like stalked my property

[34:32] for 45 minutes in the front yard, back and forth.

[34:35] There is a chance it injured one of my pigs.

[34:38] But I do not have a camera in the back.

[34:41] 'cause it was on my property a long time.

[34:44] But I don't, I don't have a camera back there.

[34:46] This particular dog she has told me, this was

[34:50] probably two years ago, she told me that if I ever saw

[34:53] that dog, that it's very dangerous.

[34:54] And so the fact that it's fine for her to just have it,

[34:57] that she can't contain it.

[34:59] It's out for hours. She doesn't even go looking

[35:02] for it is super concerning

[35:03] because she has admitted to me to be worried as a person.

[35:09] Not, you know, forget my animals, that

[35:11] as a person I should be worried about this dog.

[35:15] I mean, she wouldn't have had to drive very far to find it.

[35:18] It was Right. Yeah.

[35:19] I'm less than, I'm like less than, I'm not very far.

[35:22] And I mean, on Dale's camera it's milling around in

[35:26] that yard for hours.

[35:28] Yeah, he's, he's right off the road.

[35:29] So if, if she had driven down to the end

[35:32] of the road, she would've seen it.

[35:33] I mean caught it. Yeah.

[35:36] I didn't see Cam like I didn't on the cameras,

[35:38] I didn't see like, I didn't catch like anything

[35:42] look, anything going by.

[35:43] But I think that's the biggest worry is that, I mean,

[35:46] even forget all the other issues there,

[35:48] like this dog she has admitted is dangerous.

[35:51] She cannot contain him

[35:56] and doesn't care to

[35:58] This the same dog that we had an issue with

[36:00] Before. That's a different dog.

[36:02] Okay. So that dog also, you

[36:04] Got 49 in Probably 49 that we know of

[36:07] that we're seen that day.

[36:08] So four. Have any more been licensed? No. Okay.

[36:11] So there's 44 licensed.

[36:14] When the state went there with the sheriff,

[36:17] which was I think two weeks ago, she did, she would not,

[36:22] she was not willing to give any to the state, like

[36:25] to have them put any at any other shelters.

[36:29] But there were five additional dogs that were not registered

[36:33] that they told her needed to be registered.

[36:37] I don't know how long they gave her.

[36:40] And so there, I know there's,

[36:45] well at least that's what she showed them.

[36:47] 49 odds minimum.

[36:53] But so yeah.

[36:55] So I, the white husky is the one

[36:58] before that we met on who got out and went after the Guinea.

[37:02] Hes, but I don't think he got any, no.

[37:04] And it, that time it went

[37:05] After my friend's dog right on my

[37:08] Property. That dog I've not seen,

[37:10] I've never seen it before.

[37:11] What I, I dunno.

[37:13] That dog, what I have picked up since that meeting

[37:19] is the aita, twice the beagle, there was a beagle loose

[37:23] that went up to the human society

[37:25] that then ended up being hers.

[37:28] She's still missing a dog that was never found.

[37:34] That's some sort of small beagle mix.

[37:38] So I, I mean they're still running,

[37:41] you know, all over the place.

[37:44] So when the state went, she wasn't willing

[37:47] to give any to them.

[37:53] But I don't know if you want her to say anything about

[37:55] Well, I mean it's, it's a big, you know, it's,

[38:00] to me it's, it is a concern.

[38:05] I don't, I can't imagine what she's living in,

[38:09] let alone the dogs are there too.

[38:12] But for me, I

[38:16] am am worried on my own property that

[38:21] that dog especially is gonna come onto my property.

[38:25] Either bite me, attack my, I have a little dog,

[38:30] he stays right on my, my lawn

[38:32] and I usually have him in the back fenced in area.

[38:35] But you know, I have guineas, I have chickens

[38:39] and I shouldn't have to live in fear

[38:43] 'cause she can't control her animals.

[38:46] There's too many animals. And I mean, I don't know.

[38:51] I don't have anything. Let's just say

[38:53] I don't have anything against it.

[38:54] This isn't about her. This is about the dog.

[38:59] I don't want it near me. I don't want it loose.

[39:03] I honestly, and I'm now, I'm a lover.

[39:06] I honestly feel like that dog should probably be euthanized

[39:11] because of such a danger that she's admitted.

[39:16] And I dunno what we could do about any of this.

[39:20] But Chris,

[39:23] I just, I I'm a dog owner of course.

[39:25] And, and we've had a couple

[39:27] chickens killed in our neighborhood up on the hill

[39:29] by other dogs in the neighborhood.

[39:32] The what what we, what we,

[39:34] and there, there are certain breeds.

[39:37] It doesn't matter who's they are

[39:38] because it doesn't, we don't need

[39:39] to bring other people that matter into this.

[39:41] The Akita, what matters here is the state went

[39:44] and inspected a, a helm, what we all know, which home it is.

[39:48] We all have a major issue with it.

[39:50] But the state has laws, they,

[39:53] the Orange County sheriffs we hire have already told these

[39:56] people that it's a civil matter.

[39:59] I don't know what the board's authority is.

[40:00] And I hate to say this because I know

[40:02] what I would do if my animals were killed by another.

[40:05] But the simple fact is, is

[40:07] that everybody's dog seems like lately

[40:09] has been getting off leash.

[40:11] We have one in town that has been, and I, I love the woman.

[40:14] She's a very good friend of mine. But her dog gets off.

[40:17] Stella gets off it seems like almost a daily basis

[40:20] if these people have paid,

[40:21] if this woman has paid her $500 fine, which is

[40:24] what was written, maxed out and paid it twice.

[40:28] If Nikita has no human interaction

[40:30] or has has hurt another human being,

[40:34] then euthanization is, is not word.

[40:36] Because there's a lot of dangerous breeds in this town.

[40:39] Pit bulls, nikitas, even my, my Jack Russell, he's,

[40:43] he's a little son of a gun.

[40:45] He's bit my mother. But we, we have a lot of

[40:49] animals in this town.

[40:50] Euthanization is such a strong word. It killed her chickens.

[40:54] That is a civil matter. It did not bite a human being.

[40:58] It did not bite the kids.

[41:00] It's actually been stated that a kid's had their their

[41:03] arms around this thing.

[41:04] Unless Akita has had human interaction.

[41:07] What's bit a human, I don't know if the

[41:09] select board even has any,

[41:10] They they do Any if, if I think it has, if it has

[41:15] bitten a human.

[41:17] I mean, I don't think any of us,

[41:19] I don't think any of us might.

[41:21] I have a wine Rainer

[41:23] and I would guess that if my winery gets out,

[41:26] which she's very well acted, but if she got out

[41:30] and my neighbors Guinea s were out,

[41:32] she might attack one of the Guineans.

[41:34] And then I take the ramification civil,

[41:36] whether I get a $500 fine

[41:37] and then I have to pay my neighbors

[41:38] for restitution for the chicken.

[41:41] That seems like it's a civil matter,

[41:43] not a euthanization matter. It's

[41:45] The, well, I don't think that the board can,

[41:46] the board may not be able to say the dog needs feet. Right.

[41:49] But it just seems that those words

[41:50] that are being used seem,

[41:51] seem pretty severe when we have

[41:53] hundreds of dogs in this town.

[41:55] Well, if a dog is,

[41:56] and many dangerous breeds dangerous,

[41:58] what do they do at the Humane Society?

[42:00] Who said it's dangerous? Sheila has, okay. Is she here?

[42:05] She didn't. Right. Hearsay.

[42:07] It's hearsay. Chairman. It's hearsay.

[42:09] You guys talk, Right? Sorry, what? It's what?

[42:11] It's hearsay. Chris said, Larry said,

[42:15] who said she's not here to defend herself.

[42:17] Everybody says that Sheila said the dog's dangerous.

[42:21] She was aware of the hearing, right?

[42:23] Yeah. I sent her a certified letter. Right.

[42:25] But, but neither if she's here or at the meeting or not.

[42:30] It's, it is some very, I have dogs I understand.

[42:34] But it is very, this hits home with your animals.

[42:38] And I get that somebody lost a lot of chickens.

[42:43] But that doesn't mean that the dog needs to be put down.

[42:46] I'm a huge, a huge proponent for live kennels.

[42:50] Not death kennels. I'm a huge proponent

[42:53] for if we have a dangerous dog,

[42:56] then let's find a solution, a better house for it

[42:59] or a better area.

[43:01] But if the state and the Orange County Sheriffs have been

[43:03] there and they allowed her to keep 49 dogs, it's ludicrous.

[43:08] We all think the law is ludicrous, especially there. Right.

[43:11] But the reality is, is that they've been there.

[43:13] They let her keep the dogs, they let her keep the cats,

[43:15] they let her keep the chickens, they let her keep the pigs

[43:17] till when we finally found the pigs that were about dead.

[43:20] We all know the story, but the state

[43:21] and the Orange County Sheriff's been there.

[43:25] It it's going to be, it is.

[43:27] I think you're gonna find, even if we went to VSP and and

[43:29] and went to our town attorney

[43:31] and spent the money, we're still gonna find out it's a civil

[43:33] matter until somebody's bit.

[43:36] And I I agree it's too late at that point.

[43:38] But the state and the

[43:39] Orange County Sheriffs have been there.

[43:41] We, we haven't made any decision yet. Cody.

[43:44] So we, we do have in the policy there,

[43:48] there is another step we can take if you want to

[43:51] Expand on that.

[43:52] Sure. So Sarah Buxton town attorney.

[43:54] My firm represents the town here on a different matter.

[43:57] But as we were getting prepped,

[43:58] I did review your own town policy

[44:01] and I'll give you just some background on

[44:03] what power the select board does have.

[44:05] And sir, you're right. In many cases

[44:08] towns have very little power.

[44:10] You only have the power. The state gives you the power.

[44:12] This is one of just a handful of places

[44:14] where you have more power than Vermont State Police

[44:17] and Sheriffs.

[44:19] Where the legislature has said it's up to the town,

[44:22] they give you some guardrails so that it's up to a town

[44:25] to pass these policies for animal control.

[44:29] And in your policy, as I think Cody, you're just kind

[44:32] of reading through passed in 2016,

[44:38] you set some of the guardrails.

[44:41] One is you set your fines and your fees

[44:44] and apparently you are enforcing to that extent.

[44:48] If you don't know that you're being paid,

[44:49] that money needs to come back to you.

[44:51] So I can help you follow up

[44:52] to make sure the town is getting its minus

[44:54] administrative expense that you're getting.

[44:56] It. Additionally, when there's a hearing,

[44:59] when the person has been duly notified

[45:01] as the statute requires you to do, they come up

[45:04] and they can say their side of the story.

[45:07] And if they don't come, they waive that. Right.

[45:11] So if this person was notified to come

[45:12] and speak in their own defense

[45:13] and give you the other side of the story,

[45:15] they have an opportunity to do that.

[45:18] You can look at other circumstances and other damages.

[45:22] So you, in your policy you say the owner

[45:27] is responsible, all costs associated with the management

[45:30] of the biting animal shall be born by the owner.

[45:34] So to some reasonable extent, this is not an area

[45:38] that's heavily litigated.

[45:40] So I would just caution you to be reasonable in assessing

[45:42] what beyond the fines you would wanna assess.

[45:45] But I could see damages if there were medical expenses, if,

[45:49] if there were humans at, at play here.

[45:51] And you could take that into consideration.

[45:54] Those fines can be found

[45:56] and you know, you can order the payment

[45:59] of those, those fines.

[46:01] And if got, if they go unpaid, you can have

[46:03] that enforced by a court.

[46:06] Additionally, you can have an animal

[46:09] after such a hearing, you can have an animal impounded.

[46:13] And in your policy it says an incident of attack

[46:17] or mulling of a person

[46:19] or repeat occurrences

[46:21] of any bite attack shall result in the animal being disposed

[46:25] of in a humane way.

[46:27] The reason you have to go through this as a,

[46:29] as an ordinance rather than just a policy,

[46:32] is it has greater effect because there are consequences.

[46:35] Very serious ones as this gentleman is, is pointing out.

[46:38] But so long as you follow your policy,

[46:41] you've had the opportunity for a hearing

[46:43] and you apply this ordinance consist consistently.

[46:47] Some of the things you can do tonight are

[46:52] ask for further tickets to be issued.

[46:55] You can have one

[46:57] or more of the animals upon your own finding of cause

[47:00] be impounded until such fines are all paid

[47:04] and including damages.

[47:06] And you can go as far as if you find it to be

[47:12] necessary, you can order for the animal to be disposed

[47:16] of in inhumane way.

[47:18] The process, depending on what you choose, the process

[47:22] by which that happens might need a little further research.

[47:26] Like who holds the pet, where are they held for how long.

[47:32] It may be a multi-step process that the select board goes

[47:35] through starting tonight with some of your initial findings.

[47:39] But I just wanted you to know

[47:40] that you do have more power than you normally would have.

[47:43] And that's typically where, especially the Orange County

[47:47] and other county sheriffs feel like their hands are tied is

[47:52] because municipalities have this power

[47:54] but they don't typically exercise it.

[47:56] So you can, you have a policy,

[47:58] I would recommend maybe you update it

[48:00] because the laws have changed

[48:01] and you have some greater powers over the last,

[48:04] you know, four or five years.

[48:06] But at least as it is, as it exists on the books,

[48:09] you've done what you've needed to do to lay the groundwork

[48:11] for your decision making.

[48:14] Is there, in that policy, is there a provision

[48:17] to cover the cost of owing a dog?

[48:19] Yes. So it's just pay that longer, longer the farming

[48:22] and longer restitution to the property owners.

[48:25] What damages It says that you have the power to assess

[48:28] what beyond the fines would be reasonable so

[48:31] that you can, so

[48:32] We could, we could include their damages

[48:35] I, yes.

[48:36] To make all, and it, it refers to all parties.

[48:38] So that's why when I was reading it carefully to make sure

[48:41] that you could, you could put yourselves

[48:45] or you could consider the shoes

[48:47] of the other affected victim.

[48:50] It appears that you've already set the,

[48:52] in your own ordinance that you can consider that.

[48:56] I have a question 'cause I looked it

[48:58] up and you're an attorney.

[49:01] VSA 2035.

[49:03] 45 A right to kill domestic pet or wolf hybrids generally.

[49:08] So this is state law. Yep.

[49:12] Section B says, A domestic pet

[49:14] or wolf hybrid found wounding killing

[49:15] or worrying another domestic pet

[49:17] or wolf hybrid, a domestic animal or foul.

[49:19] And I Googled foul. Those are chickens are considered foul.

[49:24] I mean maybe not Google.

[49:25] Legally they are considered foul,

[49:28] maybe killed when the attendance circumstances are such

[49:31] that the killing is reasonably necessary to prevent injury

[49:33] to the animal or foul.

[49:35] That is subject to, is the subject of the attack. Yes.

[49:38] So that is state statute.

[49:40] That has nothing to do with our personal town.

[49:43] That's why I printed it. 'cause I was gonna question that.

[49:48] And we did have, and I was part of it, of

[49:52] a public committee to update the policies

[49:56] and then that the select board kind of disbanded that.

[50:00] So we might need to rethink that

[50:02] because clearly we still have some,

[50:07] Wasn't there an issue

[50:09] where the state was changing the laws or something?

[50:11] So we Yeah, because somebody had to go to class.

[50:14] Was it the state police or was it the,

[50:17] Remember?

[50:19] Yeah, I think Rodney was telling us about it. Yes.

[50:21] Rodney told her one, one of the officers needed

[50:24] to go for special training.

[50:26] Yes.

[50:29] County.

[50:33] So, but I'll

[50:34] Say I do have Sensitivity.

[50:35] You're right with that law.

[50:37] And then it comes down to,

[50:39] 'cause there's, there's more in that section

[50:41] who can enforce it?

[50:43] And I think that's where the sheriff's department,

[50:46] the legislature didn't say it's a,

[50:48] it exists in the criminal statute for

[50:52] the enforcement power at that level.

[50:55] But if you go through at this local level,

[50:57] which requires a hearing, you know, notice

[50:59] and opportunity to be heard, you know,

[51:03] neutral parties, I'm assuming you're all neutral

[51:06] and none of you own the dog

[51:07] or have been affected by neutral parties to, to act

[51:10] as impartial adjudicators in this instance.

[51:14] And, you know, weigh, weigh the claims.

[51:18] So as long as that process is in place, that's kind

[51:20] of the local substitute for what can be very personal,

[51:23] very difficult issues, it falls in your lap.

[51:30] Can I say something? Sure.

[51:32] So when Patricia and I met yesterday and met, and Erin

[51:37] and I spoke today to see if, if what the neighborhood could,

[51:42] you know, be content with, with

[51:47] removing the dog from the neighborhood,

[51:48] but not necessarily having a select board say the dog

[51:53] needs to be euthanized.

[51:55] The dog does have a bite history.

[52:00] It has bitten a human before,

[52:03] before it ended up in her care.

[52:06] I I do know that firsthand,

[52:10] but it wasn't in her care when that happened.

[52:16] So we were thinking, you know,

[52:20] if the select board feels

[52:21] that the dog shouldn't reside in Williamstown,

[52:25] could it be evaluated by the central Vermont Humane Society

[52:29] or another, you know, non-biased,

[52:34] reputable rescue

[52:37] to determine if it is a candidate for adoption.

[52:42] And if they say yes,

[52:43] they think it can be adopted into another home, then

[52:48] you know, she can sign it over

[52:51] to whoever is willing to rehome it.

[52:53] It just can't be re-homed in Williamstown.

[52:56] And then we would need proof where it went so

[53:00] that the animal control officer in

[53:01] that town can be contacted to make them aware of

[53:06] what had happened here.

[53:10] I think based on my interactions

[53:13] and previous interactions with Sheila, I think

[53:18] the select board will need to be very specific in

[53:21] what they want to happen

[53:25] to this dog versus like a more generic statement of

[53:30] remove it from the town.

[53:34] Because I think we will need to have some sort of,

[53:41] I hate to use the word proof, but some sort

[53:43] of like documentation of where it is

[53:47] versus just trust.

[53:51] And I just don't wanna say I, I said euthanasia not

[53:55] because I want it to die,

[53:58] but I'm kind of scared that there's no hope for it.

[54:03] I feel bad for the dog because it's had a, a crappy life.

[54:10] You know what I mean? But sometimes there is no saving.

[54:15] Dogs got a pretty good wrap sheet.

[54:16] I don't know anybody probably gonna want 'em. Yeah,

[54:19] Probably not.

[54:20] Well, but it takes, it does take away,

[54:21] like you saying you have to euthanize this dog.

[54:24] Yeah. It puts it in another like unbiased person is licensed

[54:29] to do behavior to say tested it's behavior.

[54:32] Yeah. We all know it.

[54:34] Probably in our industry it probably will

[54:36] not pass said test.

[54:37] But then somebody else is saying it needs to be euthanized.

[54:40] Kind of takes the heat off of you guys with her potentially.

[54:44] But also that is an option to not, you know, to impound it

[54:47] and say it needs to be assessed

[54:49] that it can live in this world

[54:51] and country canine in orange is a, that's where I would

[54:57] advocate it would go because she runs a, a tight ship

[55:01] and it's a good kennel that can, can definitely

[55:05] contain, you know, any dog.

[55:09] So the way I'm looking at it is if we take this dog from

[55:12] her, she's probably not gonna want

[55:14] to pay for the boarding of it.

[55:16] So Dylan's gonna be on the hook for it.

[55:18] So I think if we do something like that,

[55:21] we should set a timeline like maybe 10

[55:23] days or something like that.

[55:26] 'cause they're gonna wanna get paid

[55:27] for taking care of the dog. Right.

[55:28] Well will she have a choice?

[55:30] So if she doesn't pay and you've ordered her to pay you

[55:34] and it and it goes up above $800, you could file,

[55:39] we were talking about you could file in Orange County Court

[55:43] and have the judge order her to pay.

[55:45] Right. But what I'm saying,

[55:46] if we say we want this dog outta Williamstown Yeah.

[55:49] We take it away from her. Yep.

[55:50] Sheriff or whoever we tell to do it, she still have

[55:54] to pay for boarding that dog.

[55:56] Yeah. I mean whether she will

[55:59] or not will be, I mean you, you'll know whether

[56:01] or not you're gonna have to go to a judge

[56:03] and have a judge then order her to pay

[56:06] and then when you're, when you don't pay,

[56:08] then they're in contempt

[56:10] and then you can take actions to take out a, you know,

[56:13] a lien against their home.

[56:14] There, there, there are steps that, that a court can, tools

[56:18] that start a court can use to compel payment

[56:24] of fines and fees.

[56:26] But it takes a little while

[56:29] and you have to have the appetite to, to do that.

[56:35] I got a question. Anybody think about

[56:40] telling her, Hey, this dog has been a problem, it needs

[56:44] to be kept in a chainlink kennel that it cannot escape out

[56:48] of like a concrete floor.

[56:50] And we've been a roof over it.

[56:52] We've been, we've been down there, we've been

[56:56] Not With this specific,

[56:58] the last hearing she told me her,

[57:00] well I guess her lawyer was here for that meeting, said

[57:03] that she will never have a dog out of the fencing

[57:06] or off of the le again period.

[57:09] That was what she said she would do. Oh wow.

[57:12] And this dog who like this is the dog we're talking about,

[57:15] but there are, I drive by all the time

[57:17] and there are dogs in the driveway loose.

[57:20] There were two yesterday. There is no, when I met,

[57:22] when I can tell you

[57:23] what two they are because they're always there.

[57:26] No, but, but yeah, there's a, it is a, it is normally yes.

[57:30] You just go talk to your neighbor

[57:31] and you say like, Hey, let's do something here.

[57:34] No, I meant, but yeah, no, no, we've been there.

[57:38] This is, this has been

[57:39] Happening.

[57:40] This has been going on for, well I've been on the board

[57:42] for four years now

[57:45] and this has been

[57:48] Probably since 2018.

[57:49] Right. That's when you moved to Amon, huh? Yeah,

[57:52] It started before that.

[57:54] So,

[57:56] Well Ken, we need an option.

[57:59] Well, I mean it would

[58:00] Be, can we issue a fine on top of

[58:05] what we've already got here in writing?

[58:11] That would be to include $640

[58:15] for the replacement of lost animals.

[58:21] I would put down $500 for pain and suffering

[58:29] and impound, the animal plus room

[58:32] and board until scene fit.

[58:36] We gotta stop this once and for all,

[58:41] I had to shoot one of my guineas

[58:44] because her skin and feathers were torn off her

[58:48] and she was just laying there. I had to shoot

[58:52] Because she wouldn't, would that be 500 to each person

[58:55] or 500 for them to split? Well, pain and

[58:58] Suffering.

[58:59] I'm not, I think that's the one I would,

[59:00] I would have the hardest time.

[59:02] That's fine. Yeah, I, I agree with that. So

[59:04] I think with that, but you can do, I mean,

[59:07] subsequent offenses, it sounds like you're, you're

[59:10] multiple offenses, so you're already at 500 bucks

[59:12] for each offense, each Guinea attack.

[59:14] I mean, she's also potentially her dog. Can you do it

[59:19] Per doesn't say.

[59:22] I mean that would be, it doesn't say that she can.

[59:25] So for like, for all 10 of them

[59:29] or 12, 12, 12 of them would be 500 bucks a piece.

[59:32] And impound the dog, I mean, she'll pay,

[59:35] but she's not gonna pay that, pay that.

[59:39] Oh,

[59:41] I just don't wanna see that dog.

[59:42] We're paying the foot, the bill

[59:43] for that dog be around forever.

[59:45] I think we gotta set some amount of time limit if they,

[59:48] if they don't find a place within 10 days

[59:50] or 30 days, whatever we decide on

[59:52] that the dog gets put away needs fixed.

[59:55] Yeah. So

[59:56] otherwise it could take anything for years. Years.

[59:58] Right. No, I agree with that.

[1:00:00] But in, in the process of the dog being impounded, if you,

[1:00:04] you want to use that if with in a dog kennel, I would like

[1:00:08] to see, make sure that that includes some kind of

[1:00:12] train rehabilitation for that dog.

[1:00:14] Give it, give the dog the best chance

[1:00:19] it can for survival within capable hands.

[1:00:23] Apparently it's not incapable hands. I

[1:00:26] Agree. Right. Yeah.

[1:00:27] I don't believe to be, honestly, the dogs, some are bred

[1:00:30] for killing and whatever,

[1:00:32] they're not all bad animals, bad trainers.

[1:00:35] Yes. Owners. So give the dog bad owners.

[1:00:39] I I won't say more than 30 days by any means.

[1:00:42] And I know that we were gonna be initially footing the bill

[1:00:45] that can come back to us at, at a different point if it has

[1:00:47] to go to court, but give the dog a fighting chance

[1:00:50] like it did in the chickens.

[1:00:53] I mean, you, you know, after

[1:00:54] that if it can't be rehabilitated,

[1:00:58] then euthanization obviously would be the, the next step,

[1:01:01] but at least go that step while it's in, in

[1:01:06] That place.

[1:01:07] You all set Yeah. That place you're talking about, is

[1:01:09] that something you're reasonably sure to take this dog?

[1:01:12] They would take it? Yes.

[1:01:14] And I, I think she charges 25 a day

[1:01:18] for if the town we're paying,

[1:01:20] but I think it's 30 per day for an owner.

[1:01:25] She also, we have had

[1:01:29] trainers go evaluate dogs at her place.

[1:01:33] So she is open to that.

[1:01:35] So like you could say within 14 days,

[1:01:40] a certified trainer, whatever you wanna call them,

[1:01:44] would come assess the dog

[1:01:46] and then give, write a report to the select board

[1:01:50] of their findings.

[1:01:52] And if the dog can be adopted out, then great.

[1:01:57] There we find a place for it, a rescue

[1:01:59] that would be willing to take it.

[1:02:01] If it can't then, you know, I,

[1:02:05] but I mean you could, you could see if she'd be willing to

[1:02:12] surrender it, at which point, I mean then

[1:02:17] who, you know, whoever takes the dog would then

[1:02:20] be responsible for it.

[1:02:21] I see. See that's where, that's where I, I,

[1:02:24] I don't feel safe if the dog is damaged enough now

[1:02:28] to create damage, let's put in a secure environment

[1:02:31] where there is a professional trainer.

[1:02:33] I wouldn't wanna see that go to my kids' house.

[1:02:36] Well, right, right. Just, just

[1:02:38] because somebody wanted to adopt a dog.

[1:02:40] No, that dog is gonna be trained, you know,

[1:02:44] given whether it's seven days, 14 days by a person each day

[1:02:48] to go through the process and work with this dog.

[1:02:52] And if it, it is not gonna happen, it's not gonna happen.

[1:02:54] But I wouldn't want to see in the 14 days

[1:02:56] or just somebody walk in.

[1:02:58] Yeah. This dog can be rehabilitated.

[1:03:00] Sign a paper and let it go off to somebody's house.

[1:03:02] No, there's gonna be stipulations

[1:03:05] because it's already done damage.

[1:03:06] Yeah. I chain out about to eat.

[1:03:09] I, I don't know, I can feed it chain about a sip,

[1:03:12] Feed it, you put it in.

[1:03:14] I don't know. But that's, I'm just trying

[1:03:19] to think you most too main

[1:03:21] but most realistic so I can go

[1:03:23] to sleep at night knowing we're doing the right thing.

[1:03:24] Right. For both the people that it's going to

[1:03:26] or possibly going to in the animal.

[1:03:29] Yeah. Obviously right now it's not in the best

[1:03:31] place for anyone. Right,

[1:03:33] Right.

[1:03:34] It, the question is, I mean it's lived there six years,

[1:03:36] so can this be turned around and

[1:03:40] and that's up to Yeah.

[1:03:42] You need like a licensed behaviorist Yeah.

[1:03:45] To go in and work with, with it. Yeah.

[1:03:48] Cody. So my, my thoughts right now,

[1:03:52] my opinion would be another $500 fine

[1:03:56] plus the damages of the losses.

[1:03:57] So the six 40 dog needs to be taken.

[1:04:02] So we petition the court

[1:04:05] and if she has,

[1:04:09] she can't get the dog back unless she pays all the fines.

[1:04:14] And only if after the, the dog's looked at

[1:04:18] and the re whatever the re if they say it could come back.

[1:04:24] I, I'm not saying it could come back to Williamstown.

[1:04:26] I, well, or at least a different owner.

[1:04:29] I don't want, it'd be like taking

[1:04:32] and putting a grave back in the same scenario. Do

[1:04:34] We have to go to court to issue another fine?

[1:04:37] You don't have to for another fine.

[1:04:39] And Cody, it looks like when I was looking at your

[1:04:42] ordinance, you already claimed your power in your ordinance

[1:04:46] to just be able to go and seize the dog.

[1:04:49] If door's closed, you're not able to do that,

[1:04:54] then you can go to court

[1:04:55] and the court can authorize the sheriff to go

[1:04:58] and support you in doing that.

[1:05:00] I'm not left. I'm on her property. Okay.

[1:05:02] So I can't, so then, then

[1:05:04] If you can't logistically get it, you can go to the court

[1:05:07] and get them to authorize law enforcement to do that.

[1:05:11] Get a warrant. It would be like a warrant. Yep.

[1:05:14] An order, a warrant

[1:05:19] to enter private land animals.

[1:05:21] Not like him.

[1:05:23] So let, let me ask you guys if,

[1:05:29] does that seem reasonable?

[1:05:30] If she pays all the fines and

[1:05:31] after the dog gets looked at

[1:05:35] by whoever they said, you know, yes.

[1:05:37] It, it's okay to go back.

[1:05:40] Is that something you guys would be okay with?

[1:05:42] Or you just don't want that elastic?

[1:05:43] I, I think for her to get it back, she needs

[1:05:45] to fence in her entire property.

[1:05:47] I, I, that would be the only way with like,

[1:05:49] I'm talking 12 foot fences, like this dog goes up

[1:05:53] and over her fences now.

[1:05:55] I mean they're, I don't know if you've ever seen her fences.

[1:05:57] They're all falling down. But I I, she can,

[1:06:02] my biggest thing is she cannot contain this dog.

[1:06:04] Whether it's the sweetest dog in the

[1:06:05] world, the most aggressive dog.

[1:06:07] She has proven she can't contain this dog.

[1:06:09] And it has caused these problems.

[1:06:12] I think for it to return to her, it needs to be like a list.

[1:06:16] Like she needs to have a kennel

[1:06:18] that can contain this dog for any time.

[1:06:20] It is out of control.

[1:06:21] She needs to have fencing covering her entire property

[1:06:24] that this dog cannot get out of.

[1:06:26] Not entire property, but, you know, a fence,

[1:06:28] a reasonable space, not a old property.

[1:06:30] That'd be crazy. And,

[1:06:33] and like she needs to have all of the proper things

[1:06:36] to control this dog appropriate.

[1:06:39] Like by a trained, like a certified trainer,

[1:06:42] certified behaviorist

[1:06:44] that is this dog needs these things when it exists in the

[1:06:47] world in her care.

[1:06:49] Or it can go somewhere else.

[1:06:52] I think it needs to be like really broken down

[1:06:54] because she cannot contain the stone

[1:06:56] and I don't think she can because she's got how many Yeah.

[1:06:59] Yeah. I see. But if it

[1:07:01] Was one dog that do One thing

[1:07:02] Yeah.

[1:07:03] Right. Do and the policy

[1:07:05] that we have, I didn't see anything.

[1:07:07] Do we have any way of, Hey, you gotta fix the fencing.

[1:07:11] You got to

[1:07:12] Yes.

[1:07:13] Says so if you look at section eight based on the

[1:07:15] circumstances,

[1:07:20] oh wait.

[1:07:20] The select board may investigate

[1:07:22] to determine if justification exists

[1:07:24] for additional penalties other than a fine.

[1:07:25] So that's what you're doing? Yeah.

[1:07:27] Based on the circumstances.

[1:07:28] These additional enforcement measures may include

[1:07:32] mandatory containment, muzzling,

[1:07:33] or restraint removal of the animal from the custody

[1:07:36] and control of the owner.

[1:07:37] Okay. That sounds like what you're doing.

[1:07:39] And I think putting conditions on the return, it,

[1:07:43] it certainly doesn't preclude you from, you know,

[1:07:45] putting those conditions on if you find

[1:07:47] that those are, you know, reasonable.

[1:07:50] Can I just say too, She's been trying

[1:07:53] to adopt this dog out, so why not just let the dog go,

[1:07:58] you know, remove the dog.

[1:08:00] I'd rather see the dog

[1:08:02] Out where problem, this has been an ongoing issue.

[1:08:05] Yeah. There's no reason anybody needs to have 49 dogs. No.

[1:08:11] Basically this dog is gonna be,

[1:08:13] another dog is gonna be an issue.

[1:08:14] If you, you also, if you, if you do the,

[1:08:16] like putting the stipulations on it, she can't claim

[1:08:18] that you're just trying to take her dog away.

[1:08:20] Like you are what we're,

[1:08:21] like you're saying I'm gonna impound it,

[1:08:23] but the way that she likes to kind

[1:08:27] of comment things is you're like, no,

[1:08:29] you can have your dog back.

[1:08:30] I'm not saying you can't, but here is our list

[1:08:32] of things you have to accomplish in 14 days

[1:08:36] or whatever your timing you wanna be.

[1:08:37] I recommend 10 because wherever this dog goes is not

[1:08:41] going to love dealing with it.

[1:08:42] Probably. And just from like six years

[1:08:46] of this ingrained behavior, it will take twice that amount

[1:08:48] of time to get the behaviors out of the dog.

[1:08:51] He's not gonna live 12 more years.

[1:08:54] So I think, you know, spending the 10 days will be plenty

[1:08:59] to get an idea of, you know, 10 to 14 days will be plenty

[1:09:01] to get an idea of what that dog needs.

[1:09:03] My guess is that dog's already attacked chickens.

[1:09:05] He likes doing that. He ain't gonna stop doing them.

[1:09:08] Yeah. And it wasn't, he didn't attack the chickens

[1:09:10] and eat them, ate them.

[1:09:11] He attacked them. Get a dog to torture them. I guess so.

[1:09:14] Which is very a dog.

[1:09:19] So yeah. So that's, that is also

[1:09:21] A, I think what we need to do is,

[1:09:24] I'm gonna take Chris's question here in a second,

[1:09:25] but I think what we need to do is look into this.

[1:09:28] We, we've had the public here

[1:09:30] and we need to look into this further.

[1:09:31] What legal means we, we can do with it,

[1:09:34] actually have teeth in it to get something done.

[1:09:37] Well I think we already have that, Larry, right?

[1:09:39] No, but I mean, we need to have the counsel

[1:09:40] to advise this so we do it right.

[1:09:43] Make sure this thing sticks. Would you agree with that?

[1:09:47] Sure. Yeah. Okay.

[1:09:48] Have a very clearly written, I think

[1:09:50] what you're thinking is make sure it's clearly

[1:09:52] written out right?

[1:09:54] Everyone is, knows if this, then that

[1:09:57] and that if things aren't followed,

[1:10:00] that everyone understands how money is gonna get paid

[1:10:04] and how it's gonna get recovered

[1:10:05] or what the disposition of the animal will be in the event

[1:10:09] that conditions aren't met.

[1:10:12] Right. Is there an appeal?

[1:10:16] It doesn't look like you have?

[1:10:18] Well, so it doesn't look like you have put an appeal in

[1:10:21] here, but there are, she can, they can consult

[1:10:25] with their attorney on the remedies available

[1:10:27] to them. Okay.

[1:10:29] What's the timeline on something like that?

[1:10:33] So since this is a hearing, what I would suggest

[1:10:35] that you would do is

[1:10:40] continue the hearing maybe until

[1:10:43] your next meeting if you want,

[1:10:44] and then maybe deliberate when we go into

[1:10:48] an executive session.

[1:10:50] Your deliberation isn't subject to open meeting law.

[1:10:53] So you can deliberate, you can decide what you want.

[1:10:57] You can take some time

[1:10:59] and consult with your animal patrol officer

[1:11:02] and then finalize your decision at your next meeting

[1:11:07] Or even after.

[1:11:09] You don't have to do it tonight

[1:11:11] is if that's what you're asking. But

[1:11:13] If we wanted to, if we, But if you wanted to, yes.

[1:11:15] If you wanted tonight to, to decide

[1:11:17] and to vote what your parameters are,

[1:11:22] then you can use some language to say subject to, you know,

[1:11:27] a written decision issued by, you know, approved

[1:11:30] and issued by counsel

[1:11:33] and designate, you know, the chair, the town manager to then

[1:11:37] tidy up any loose ends if any of the problems come up and,

[1:11:40] and come back to you if there's any

[1:11:41] substantial change to your decision.

[1:11:43] Well, we are having a executive session

[1:11:45] for legal issues made already.

[1:11:47] So we could talk about that later as well. Yeah. So Chris,

[1:11:53] Just Chris,

[1:11:55] Larry, you, you okay, Larry.

[1:11:56] But I have a statement.

[1:11:57] You, you, you said it best that

[1:12:00] this person shouldn't have a juror.

[1:12:02] We all know that. It, it is disgusting.

[1:12:04] It's always been disgusting for a very long time in town.

[1:12:07] Said this is a nuisance forever.

[1:12:09] I think we need a humane solution

[1:12:12] because it's not the animal's fault.

[1:12:14] This animal is a known breed that is a killer,

[1:12:17] but it's not this animal's fault as a, as a citizen here.

[1:12:22] If it was my dog, I like yours. I like Clayton's.

[1:12:26] I like cos especially like Scott's

[1:12:29] and saying, let's penalize the owner.

[1:12:31] Let's get the dog away from this owner

[1:12:33] because you can take it away, give it 10 days,

[1:12:36] like you said, at a professional facility

[1:12:38] that our animal control officer said.

[1:12:41] But it is not the dog's fault that this

[1:12:46] facility has been allowed to go on and on and on

[1:12:49] and on and on.

[1:12:51] But it is going to be a very bad issue that if we do this

[1:12:56] to this dog

[1:12:57] and we make a rash decision,

[1:12:59] I think maybe council would agree with you chair that

[1:13:02] we have a lot of dogs in this town.

[1:13:04] And based upon what we do have in our policy is

[1:13:09] if there's a similar incident, I think we gotta treat it

[1:13:14] Well.

[1:13:15] This dog, a history of human bites. I I I agree.

[1:13:17] Kill chickens than out. So I

[1:13:19] Agree with you.

[1:13:20] But it's also lived in a pile of ****

[1:13:21] for the last six years.

[1:13:23] Well, we'll, we'll discuss it all. And I get it.

[1:13:25] We wanna do it legal and do it so it works. It stacks it. So

[1:13:29] It's just, remember, it's not handle's fault.

[1:13:31] I I don't think anybody's wanting

[1:13:33] to put the dog down at this time.

[1:13:36] I mean, well, I mean from what

[1:13:38] I'm I Sick of kicking the scan down the road.

[1:13:41] Exactly. We've got to do something with this whole

[1:13:45] Situation.

[1:13:46] No, yeah, I agree. It's not fair

[1:13:47] to the people around it place. Yeah, exactly.

[1:13:49] And I'm, I'm behind you

[1:13:51] and I, this has been kicked down the road a long time

[1:13:56] and I think it's time we make a stand here and

[1:14:00] I do something a hundred percent behind you.

[1:14:02] That one. So, we'll we're, we're gonna discuss this further

[1:14:05] and make sure we do it right, whatever we end up doing.

[1:14:08] And we'll let you know what the outcome is and thank you.

[1:14:11] You thank you for coming. Thank

[1:14:12] You.

[1:14:13] I can also contact country canine just to ask

[1:14:17] and verify that she'd be willing to house him

[1:14:21] Taking the work with Ryan on that.

[1:14:23] And then yeah, we'll work with the council and, and

[1:14:25] Yeah, We, we, we will probably come up

[1:14:28] with some parameters we're looking for tonight,

[1:14:30] but may not make a decision until we hear back from,

[1:14:34] we can get together another night, just five

[1:14:37] of us just to discuss this.

[1:14:39] Okay. For a few minutes If we need to.

[1:14:41] We, we won't leave you hanging,

[1:14:42] I don't think we gotta leave you hanging

[1:14:43] for a whole month until next week.

[1:14:44] Oh, that would be nice. But that might take a few days

[1:14:48] to make sure we get it right.

[1:14:50] You know, is that everybody board with that? Yeah. Yeah.

[1:14:54] Okay. Well thank you for coming in.

[1:14:56] Thank, Thank you. Thank you. You don't have to run off.

[1:14:59] You still stay If you want let you go. We

[1:15:04] Get up at 4:00 AM Myself included.

[1:15:08] Thank you. No, I don't Thank you until five tomorrow.

[1:15:14] Of course. I'm sitting here.

[1:15:20] Get one take here. Okay,

[1:15:24] next time is 53 Beckett Street,

[1:15:26] 2024 tax sale discussion. Chris

[1:15:34] Request.

[1:15:35] Sure. Do you mind if I start or do you won't mind to start?

[1:15:37] 'cause we both know a go ahead.

[1:15:39] At, in 2024, we sold 53 Beckett Street,

[1:15:44] the known drug house in town that was rated twice

[1:15:47] at tax sale at the time.

[1:15:49] We had a town attorney. His name was Jeffrey Pierce.

[1:15:53] We had a different town manager, Jeffrey Lewis.

[1:15:56] Excuse me, I I apologize.

[1:15:59] I might mess up a few times just to let you guys know

[1:16:01] because I'm on chemo, so I do it brain.

[1:16:03] So I've always had brain fog, Larry,

[1:16:05] but right now it's a little worse than ever.

[1:16:07] But Jeff Lewis and his office is in self royalton.

[1:16:15] Jeff Lewis. I, I submitted a

[1:16:18] Federal Public Information Act requests to Ryan,

[1:16:22] which allows three days if it's not involved in the criminal

[1:16:25] case to provide all the public information that was

[1:16:28] provided as part of the sale

[1:16:29] or any type of communications that were involved in this.

[1:16:32] I requested specifically for this tax sale, Ryan

[1:16:36] absolutely abided by the federal.

[1:16:39] He also met with my counsel.

[1:16:40] My counsel's not here tonight

[1:16:41] 'cause she had an abscess tooth

[1:16:42] and went to an emergency dental.

[1:16:45] But her name is Catherine Hayes.

[1:16:46] So everybody knows and Ryan has a met.

[1:16:50] The only reason I've got counsel is this is not

[1:16:52] a, it is a town issue.

[1:16:56] The town has an avenue here,

[1:16:58] and I'm not gonna speak for your counsel

[1:17:00] because you do have new counsel.

[1:17:02] But Mr. Lewis was paid to do due diligence in the tax sale.

[1:17:06] That was to notify all lien holders, anybody

[1:17:09] that claimed any type of bills or mechanic liens

[1:17:13] or any type of liens at all on the

[1:17:15] 53 Beckett Street address.

[1:17:17] And how you do that is you notify them either

[1:17:19] by certified mail signature required,

[1:17:22] you can do FedEx return, somebody signed

[1:17:25] for it, do anything.

[1:17:26] They, they choose to do up USPS

[1:17:31] and then they just changed to UPS actually

[1:17:33] and his office,

[1:17:38] his paralegal returned all of the paperwork that they had.

[1:17:42] He had actually refused for multiple times

[1:17:44] to the town manager.

[1:17:45] And I don't wanna speak for the town manager,

[1:17:47] but speaking to you of what I know that he's refused

[1:17:50] to turn over in multiple requests.

[1:17:54] Proof that he notified down street housing,

[1:17:57] which is the Vermont Land Trust.

[1:17:58] Vermont Land Trust is now part of down street housing

[1:18:01] and also the Vermont Historic Preservation Board, which

[1:18:07] hands out different types of grants to individuals.

[1:18:11] In this case, it was a single

[1:18:12] mother, it's public information.

[1:18:15] It was Brandy Todd that owned the, the property.

[1:18:17] USDA had the mortgage on it.

[1:18:19] They had a mortgage, it was huge.

[1:18:21] Over $200,000 on the property.

[1:18:24] The historic board had a $20,000

[1:18:28] grant that they had given her.

[1:18:29] Plus the caveat that they get paid X amount

[1:18:33] of the percentage

[1:18:34] of profit on any sale subsequent from that point forward.

[1:18:37] Doesn't matter if Brandy sold it, if I sold it, if any

[1:18:42] of you sold the property, they're entitled

[1:18:44] because they were not notified

[1:18:46] and due diligent, they,

[1:18:47] they were not notified of the tax sale.

[1:18:50] So there was two entities that were not the Vermont

[1:18:52] and Trust for $1,500 amount

[1:18:56] and the V-H-C-B-A, excuse me again, brain Fog.

[1:19:01] But Ryan has all that information.

[1:19:03] Also, we're not notified of the tax sale.

[1:19:08] Mr. Lewis cannot provide that information.

[1:19:11] He was hired and paid by the town to do that.

[1:19:15] Based upon my counsel's advice is,

[1:19:22] The only reason I hate to do this is

[1:19:24] because it ultimately is going

[1:19:26] after the town for the 21,500.

[1:19:29] The town then would absolutely go

[1:19:31] after malpractice insurance of Mr. Lewis because he did not.

[1:19:38] It's a tax sale, it's elementary. As far as tax sales go.

[1:19:43] We paid Mr. Lewis a lot of money. And that doesn't matter.

[1:19:46] We paid him for his services as the attorney.

[1:19:49] That's why he has insurance.

[1:19:51] He did not notify two entities in this costing me on

[1:19:53] the 16th of this month.

[1:19:56] I'm paying off two liens, $21,500

[1:20:00] that the town should not have sold the property at

[1:20:04] tax sale at that time.

[1:20:07] Again, Ryan and I have talked in detail with this.

[1:20:11] Ryan has also met my counsel.

[1:20:14] I've asked that the, the board be notified.

[1:20:16] The only reason I'm here tonight is I wanna make sure

[1:20:18] that the whole board is notified.

[1:20:20] Plus I want the town spoke to know that I'm not

[1:20:25] trying to go after the town for the 21 5

[1:20:27] because the town did hire counsel.

[1:20:31] My counsel will of course be filing suit against the town

[1:20:35] for the 21 5 as soon as I incur that damage,

[1:20:38] which will be on 16th at closing.

[1:20:42] Ultimately, and I'm, I'm talking out

[1:20:45] of church 'cause you do have your own counsel.

[1:20:46] But your counsel's here, Larry, that

[1:20:50] that is why he has malpractice insurance.

[1:20:53] Because he did not do his due diligence as part of

[1:20:55] that individual tax sale.

[1:20:57] And based upon the, the information that he

[1:21:00] provided to your account manager

[1:21:02] and to me as part of the federal request

[1:21:04] for public information,

[1:21:09] he does not have the information to provide that.

[1:21:11] He did do that. Of course, we can all say we did.

[1:21:15] He did in fact do it with USDA

[1:21:17] and had all the proper notifications signed.

[1:21:19] Notice that they received notice

[1:21:20] and a letter that they had relinquished

[1:21:23] their interest in the property.

[1:21:25] He would've also had to add that from the two boards

[1:21:29] that were involved with the grants saying

[1:21:31] that they relinquished their interest in the property.

[1:21:34] I have in fact bought that relinquish for the 20,000

[1:21:38] to one board because they could still ask

[1:21:40] for a percentage of the profits.

[1:21:42] They have said, you give us $20,000,

[1:21:45] that was the original grant.

[1:21:46] We'll relinquish any percentage

[1:21:48] of the profits that we're entitled to.

[1:21:50] 'cause they are by statute, the $1,500 I'm paying

[1:21:56] down Streete housing doesn't even have an interest with it.

[1:21:58] But the state attorney, Mrs.

[1:22:01] Egan has, has said, Hey, you're paying one board.

[1:22:06] Let's pay the other board. It's clean. I said, absolutely.

[1:22:09] I have an insurable title.

[1:22:10] Now all of a sudden, because

[1:22:11] before I had a tax tax deed tax sale deed,

[1:22:16] now I'll have a, a insurable mart deed as part

[1:22:19] of the 21 5 being done correctly.

[1:22:21] If it had been done correctly,

[1:22:23] I could had a mart deed previous to this.

[1:22:27] As of as of right now, the insurance company is doing this.

[1:22:32] The title insurance company's doing this knowing

[1:22:34] that at closing they have two attorneys,

[1:22:37] one from Fred Pete's office will

[1:22:40] and my attorney Paul Bowles, who's my real estate attorney,

[1:22:44] have assured them that the checks will be issued, of course,

[1:22:47] for relinquishment of this.

[1:22:48] Therefore, the title insurance company will be issuing a

[1:22:52] title insurance on the RT for the, the subsequent number.

[1:22:57] So my, my damages won't be realized

[1:23:01] until the 16th, but it is $21,500.

[1:23:05] And I wanted to discuss it with the board to let them know

[1:23:08] that I don't believe the town

[1:23:12] is liable in any way other than to go

[1:23:14] after the council, which is what you hired

[1:23:17] to do the tax sales.

[1:23:19] And he did not do due diligence and,

[1:23:22] and finding all the lie owners,

[1:23:24] which are in fact on the first page of the deed.

[1:23:27] And I'm not an attorney, nor am I an expert in deeds by lot

[1:23:31] of properties, but I don't know deeds very well.

[1:23:33] I went in and read the first page of the deed

[1:23:35] and they're sitting right there, black and white.

[1:23:38] And they're actually so black

[1:23:40] and white that it mentions both boards

[1:23:42] and the exact amounts.

[1:23:44] And that there is other statutes in the share,

[1:23:46] in the profit sharing on the, on the property.

[1:23:50] So that is why I'm here.

[1:23:54] I would love it if, if I know it's a,

[1:23:57] it is a conflict of interest.

[1:23:58] But I'd love it if everybody could understand

[1:24:01] my position here and realize

[1:24:04] that this is not an attack on my hometown.

[1:24:07] I'll still be living here as long as I live.

[1:24:11] And I've done my best to clean up that house.

[1:24:14] But we had an attorney at the time

[1:24:16] that did not do his due diligence.

[1:24:19] And I think your counsel, which I'm,

[1:24:21] I'm glad counsel is here today, Larry, and I think the board

[1:24:24] and Ryan is very aware of this situation, needs

[1:24:27] to know exactly the steps that happened here

[1:24:30] and realize that we hired an attorney

[1:24:32] that did not do the job.

[1:24:34] So that's all I'm here for.

[1:24:37] I'm gonna ask you a question.

[1:24:38] Did you ev ever do a title search of the property

[1:24:40] before you closed on it?

[1:24:42] Of course there's 2 2, 2 attorneys that went

[1:24:44] through that did that also. Yes.

[1:24:45] They didn't pick that up during that. No,

[1:24:49] But Chris Dero did when he went in with Barb and Barb.

[1:24:52] Barb helped me grab the deed

[1:24:53] because I really truly don't know

[1:24:56] what the hell I'm doing in there.

[1:24:57] And it's aired black and white. Yep.

[1:25:00] But it still falls back to the original, the original title

[1:25:04] because they weren't notified.

[1:25:06] So it falls back to the original tax sale

[1:25:09] because the, the property, those other,

[1:25:11] those subsequent title searches didn't matter

[1:25:16] 'cause the property wasn't saleable at the time.

[1:25:21] I mean they, they usually, when title search is done,

[1:25:24] they go way back right up to the day they're doing it.

[1:25:27] They sure do Before the closing.

[1:25:29] If the attorneys still practice

[1:25:30] Check before the closing, he Has a mal practice

[1:25:32] insurance policy, then he is the town.

[1:25:36] I guess, I guess I don't understand why you're not going

[1:25:38] after your attorney because he did title search on it,

[1:25:41] didn't pick it up instead of going after the town.

[1:25:43] I not, not, we'll take it personally. Just,

[1:25:46] I I, I hopefully, hopefully you aren't either.

[1:25:48] I'm paying $21,500

[1:25:50] because of an error that, that an attorney

[1:25:53] that the town hired made.

[1:25:55] And he has malpractice insurance

[1:25:57] that will cover the town in this situation

[1:25:59] and the town should, it doesn't fall in my realm.

[1:26:06] But based upon the evidence of this one sale,

[1:26:13] I mean, I bought, I would, I would advise the account

[1:26:16] to maybe have some of the tax sales of, of that generation

[1:26:21] review because it was, it was scary.

[1:26:25] I I know I bought a lot of property.

[1:26:27] I know you don't And and I always have

[1:26:29] a title search debt on it.

[1:26:30] Yep. And if there's something's wrong in it, it has

[1:26:34] to be corrected for your clothes on it or you don't

[1:26:37] unless you decide you go buy it anyway. It

[1:26:39] Is And there's and there's a liability in the

[1:26:41] Plan.

[1:26:42] My may I corrected my assumption,

[1:26:44] but so I don't, I decide I don't, to me

[1:26:49] it seems like you should be going

[1:26:51] after your lawyers for not giving you a clean title on it.

[1:26:55] Oh, IIII have a counsel

[1:26:56] that is not my real estate attorney

[1:26:58] that did the title search

[1:26:59] and they, that that's her choice to make

[1:27:02] who we initially go after.

[1:27:04] It will ultimately, with two attorneys,

[1:27:07] it'll ultimately trickle back to the fact

[1:27:10] that the town had no right to sell the property

[1:27:14] without notifying the legal.

[1:27:16] If they, if they did properly, they, they,

[1:27:19] they put the thing up for tax sale.

[1:27:21] Right. And they have the tax sale,

[1:27:23] but they don't actually close on the property that same day.

[1:27:27] Probably it was 30 days later

[1:27:28] that you probably actually closed on.

[1:27:29] You gotta wait a year anyway to redeem it.

[1:27:31] Right. But, but there could,

[1:27:32] there could be a redemption period.

[1:27:33] If they aren't notified, there's no redemption period.

[1:27:37] If, if the two lien lien holders there is zero redemption

[1:27:41] period, if they have not notified, they get,

[1:27:43] they always have a claim on the property.

[1:27:47] I understand what you're saying, but they

[1:27:48] should pick that up if they did. I,

[1:27:51] This I hundred percent agree with you,

[1:27:53] I better hand up too.

[1:27:55] But the original owner that bought it in the tax sale,

[1:27:58] Mr. Sling or

[1:28:00] Hil Hil, He's the one who bought it at the tax sale,

[1:28:04] waited one year and a day and then it was his.

[1:28:09] And then I understand within a few weeks it was yours. Yes.

[1:28:15] You're a hundred percent correct.

[1:28:16] So thanks for coming Chris.

[1:28:18] I understand the predicament here.

[1:28:22] I would just recommend that we add this

[1:28:24] to the list of things to go over.

[1:28:27] Sorry, I'm with you Cody. 100%. Right.

[1:28:32] Like there's gonna be a lot of, we only know

[1:28:34] so much I get it. I,

[1:28:36] Yeah, I can't address, I can't address her

[1:28:38] because of public meeting.

[1:28:40] I haven't addressed the chair. Yeah,

[1:28:41] No, I, It was, it was a good night to come

[1:28:44] because the council is here and,

[1:28:45] and yeah, Ryan is fully aware of this

[1:28:48] and the board's aware of this and

[1:28:50] Thank you for Somebody somewhere there.

[1:28:53] You're exactly right. There's three attorneys

[1:28:55] that are now involved in this.

[1:28:57] It might be my own attorney who's doing

[1:28:59] three more closings for me.

[1:29:00] So it sucks. But you're exactly right.

[1:29:03] But I'm just letting the town know as a citizen

[1:29:07] that the attorney that we had hired for our tax sales,

[1:29:11] it's a blatant and two other attorneys, Schiller

[1:29:14] and then mine made blatant

[1:29:18] Mistakes.

[1:29:19] Mistakes, yeah.

[1:29:21] So if that's, if that's on one of those,

[1:29:24] we did a lot of tax deals.

[1:29:25] Those are just a lot. And so

[1:29:28] Have Just

[1:29:31] Discuss it later.

[1:29:33] We'll have discuss it and see what

[1:29:34] No, I get, I get it.

[1:29:35] And I just, I just wanted to, it, it sucks

[1:29:39] because it looks like you're suing the town.

[1:29:41] And the fact is, is that I think

[1:29:43] people need to understand that.

[1:29:44] That's why we hired counsel.

[1:29:46] Okay. It, it wasn't you guys that made the decision

[1:29:49] to sell that property and then said, oh, what do we do now?

[1:29:52] We hired an expert. We paid an expert numbers

[1:29:54] and whether it's the second attorney, the third attorney,

[1:29:58] the fifth attorney, it's an attorney's responsibility

[1:30:01] to make sure that I have sale the title

[1:30:03] and not my, not my responsibility.

[1:30:05] 'cause I pay the fee. I hire you to do my water.

[1:30:09] 'cause I, I can't get an operated contractor say nothing

[1:30:11] about, you know, so

[1:30:13] That's, that's what I'm

[1:30:14] Saying.

[1:30:15] All we do is authorize the tax sales, but we don't, we're

[1:30:17] Not totally, I totally totally get it.

[1:30:20] Thank you for coming in and sharing it. Yep.

[1:30:23] It sucks. We'll get we'll we'll get back to you on

[1:30:26] that And we figure things out on our end.

[1:30:28] I will. And I apologize if my counsel,

[1:30:30] 'cause I'm probably talking way out of church and Well she,

[1:30:34] but my counsel wasn't here tonight

[1:30:35] and I apologize 'cause she was gonna,

[1:30:37] Well she just had to be here for another issue.

[1:30:39] But she's gonna get plateful before she leaves. I know.

[1:30:43] Now hours.

[1:30:48] Well when we, when we had to sign a

[1:30:51] signed a payroll warrant, know where that

[1:30:55] that's the correct number.

[1:30:57] Holy, exactly. Okay, so that'll conclude that for now.

[1:31:03] Now next item is a health officer appointment.

[1:31:06] Yeah, we just, Courtney Wade is interested in

[1:31:09] being a health officer.

[1:31:10] Again, Ms. Selectboard just needs to vote to appoint her so

[1:31:15] that I can notify the state.

[1:31:18] I make a motion to appoint court. I'll second that motion.

[1:31:23] Well you don't want that job. I know you just

[1:31:27] late about it every time you get it.

[1:31:30] I do. Okay.

[1:31:32] Opposed AB may seconded Any discussion on that?

[1:31:35] No, nobody else wants to do it. Okay, good.

[1:31:41] All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed?

[1:31:47] Okay. The 2 30, 36

[1:31:51] LMP adoption.

[1:31:53] So every year we have to go

[1:31:55] and update the local emergency management plan

[1:32:01] that has all the contacts of everybody who should be

[1:32:04] involved in various emergencies that happen in town.

[1:32:07] I went through and updated it didn't change

[1:32:10] the body of the plan.

[1:32:11] The plan is the same. I just updated my name

[1:32:16] as the emergency management director

[1:32:19] and our new, our new road foreman as

[1:32:25] in the, in the categories.

[1:32:26] He needed to be updated and removed.

[1:32:31] A couple people who aren't with the town anymore

[1:32:33] and updated some phone numbers.

[1:32:35] But the body of the plan remains exactly the same

[1:32:38] as it was last year.

[1:32:41] But I just need to select board to go to adopt it.

[1:32:43] And then I pass that off to the state.

[1:32:48] I get through looks like find name.

[1:32:55] The only thing I just EMS is Bear County EMS

[1:32:59] No contact information.

[1:33:00] That was the only one that everyone else

[1:33:02] has a phone number to contact.

[1:33:04] They had David's

[1:33:06] Phone.

[1:33:07] They have, I don't know if they have his,

[1:33:08] I mean there's another spot that

[1:33:10] I see there somewhere.

[1:33:11] Oh, you're right. Yep. I can,

[1:33:12] That's the only thing I

[1:33:13] saw that I can put the phone number in there.

[1:33:14] Yeah. Just it should have a contact. That was the only

[1:33:16] On page three. Yep. On

[1:33:17] Page three.

[1:33:19] That's the only thing I saw. Everything.

[1:33:21] Everyone else has a contact that,

[1:33:22] Have you received his name in

[1:33:24] Williams together with phone number

[1:33:28] On Fire one for,

[1:33:41] I mean Yeah, right there on page seven.

[1:33:46] Silvie contacts. William Graham, his phone number.

[1:33:49] David Danforth, his phone number. Yeah.

[1:33:51] So I'll just make sure to throw that into the

[1:33:54] Shelter Manager.

[1:33:55] Where, where Marie, what, what is,

[1:33:56] what is that Shelter manager? I don't understand

[1:33:58] That one.

[1:33:59] If we have to put up a shelter for any reason

[1:34:01] and typically that's gonna be at the high school.

[1:34:03] Okay. She will be the one heading up, you know, supplies

[1:34:07] and organization and people management.

[1:34:10] Okay. Fair enough Question. Bringing that up.

[1:34:14] 'cause when our flood two and the time flies was two

[1:34:17] or three years ago, we get a flood every year.

[1:34:18] But the big one Nice.

[1:34:21] The high school was, I think the firehouse has the

[1:34:27] cots, but if that's the emergency shelter,

[1:34:30] it would be good if the high school has a

[1:34:32] closet or something.

[1:34:34] I'm just saying legitimately luck that

[1:34:36] because I can surely say Meadow Street was part of the flood

[1:34:39] and it would've been impossible, nearly possible that sense.

[1:34:42] But To get things, I mean, I,

[1:34:46] being a volunteer firefighter here,

[1:34:48] I certainly brought up several residents as, you know,

[1:34:52] route 14 was getting flooded.

[1:34:54] This prior Meadow Street was, you know, gone. Yeah.

[1:34:57] So it would be good just if that's our spot to have a way

[1:35:01] for those people if they are being unhoused during a flut

[1:35:04] or other emergency, that those supplies are up there.

[1:35:07] That way we're not like,

[1:35:09] oh sorry I get to sleep in the gym tonight.

[1:35:11] But you're on the bleachers. Yeah, I did

[1:35:13] Talk with Josh Bailey, who's the custodian out there?

[1:35:17] He said there are co up

[1:35:18] There.

[1:35:19] Okay. Maybe there are, we have co down here too. Both

[1:35:20] Places.

[1:35:21] Okay. Yeah, so he has the whole set up. Okay. Okay.

[1:35:25] Do you need the less piece's contact info there too?

[1:35:29] Oh yeah. I'll put the last Visa number. I, we

[1:35:31] Don't want to have to do this again.

[1:35:32] Yep.

[1:35:39] So is, I guess we need a motion to approve that as Amen.

[1:35:44] I make a motion to approve it as amended.

[1:35:47] Second Motion. Any discussion?

[1:35:52] All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye.

[1:35:58] Okay, so next item is Foot Road Rehab Project.

[1:36:05] As you know, we had a proposal out there for,

[1:36:09] to redo 13 and a half miles a road

[1:36:14] and for a million dollars bond.

[1:36:16] And it passed the first time.

[1:36:17] And the way it was set up wasn't quite the way the Bond bank

[1:36:22] requires it to be.

[1:36:24] So we had to redo it and it failed by 17 boats second time.

[1:36:28] So anyway, the, the, the need is still there.

[1:36:35] Roy and I did a tour

[1:36:40] during the last part of Mud Season

[1:36:41] and found areas that really need some drainage work

[1:36:46] to the areas that we did last year with the drainage pipe.

[1:36:50] And, and we'd done in previous years, there was zero issues.

[1:36:53] There was no humps, no bumps, no water,

[1:36:56] no, no mud, no nothing.

[1:36:58] So one of the areas we looked at doing was Ter Hill,

[1:37:04] the section on Gilbert Road and then,

[1:37:08] but more on Flint Road that we were gonna do last year.

[1:37:11] But the measurements were screwed up.

[1:37:14] So we didn't have enough money to do it all.

[1:37:17] But then there was an area above that

[1:37:20] that, that really needs it.

[1:37:21] Before we put any money into that road,

[1:37:26] we picked Flint Road for an obvious reason.

[1:37:29] Anybody in this room, what, what were you, how many,

[1:37:33] how homes do you believe are on Flint Road

[1:37:38] is 1.2, 2.4 miles between Flint Road, cold Springfield,

[1:37:44] how many, how Flip Road serve?

[1:37:46] How many homes do you think Flip Road serves?

[1:37:51] 25. How many?

[1:37:53] 25. 25. 25.

[1:37:55] I'm gonna say 50. I think he closer. I think,

[1:37:58] I think he's Closer.

[1:37:59] I was guessing 40, 50 myself.

[1:38:01] There was 80, 80 on that sort stretch I up to the last week.

[1:38:05] I just count, there's three,

[1:38:06] there's three vacant lots ready for homes.

[1:38:09] There's 80 actual living residence directly have

[1:38:13] to use Flip Road to, to get outta their place.

[1:38:15] That doesn't count. You know,

[1:38:17] people come from Cold Springs Road in that way.

[1:38:19] That's just directly feeding into Flint Road.

[1:38:22] George Road beating Mountain Road

[1:38:25] and all the way on Flip Road itself.

[1:38:28] We, we, we counted every place, all the way from the end

[1:38:32] of the road to the four way intersection by the schools.

[1:38:35] And I was surprised.

[1:38:37] So we thought at that point that we had to use,

[1:38:42] that would make a good test session.

[1:38:45] And maybe we'll change the way we do things. The future.

[1:38:47] We may just try to increase the highway budget to do such,

[1:38:52] like something like this every year

[1:38:53] or go for the bond and try to get more done.

[1:38:56] But this would give a good solid

[1:39:00] numbers for how much material it's gonna take.

[1:39:04] How long, how long it take the town crew to do it.

[1:39:09] Everything. So we go back for the bond boat,

[1:39:12] we'll have this history right here.

[1:39:14] It's gonna, and it is gonna serve all these people.

[1:39:17] So I, I mean you take bass like baptist trees twice

[1:39:22] as long, but I don't even think there's a quarter

[1:39:24] of the people that there is on this stretch, you know,

[1:39:27] so it'd be a good test.

[1:39:30] So Ryan worked on, put stuff together.

[1:39:34] We firstly thought maybe we could use

[1:39:36] the 114,000 sitting there to pay the bond that we

[1:39:40] could have if we approved.

[1:39:41] But that Rob h right? They do.

[1:39:44] So he worked with the treasurer and stuff

[1:39:45] and we, we can do it our own.

[1:39:48] I'll let, I'll let Ryan take it. Jimmy.

[1:39:51] Yeah. So the, the details for a Flint road rehab project,

[1:39:56] so it'd be about 1.8 miles.

[1:39:58] We'd stop at Moore Road

[1:40:02] and we'll do some very significant under drain work.

[1:40:06] Ditching, culverts resurfacing.

[1:40:10] We'll spend a little under $7,500

[1:40:14] for the proper amount of feet for under drain.

[1:40:18] Then we have Crush granite material

[1:40:21] and we're figuring that the road about 22 feet wide,

[1:40:24] sometimes it narrows down a little bit.

[1:40:26] But that is the, the biggest cost

[1:40:31] of the project at a 116,500 with the,

[1:40:35] the use of the grand material.

[1:40:39] Another 8,503 quarter inch stone.

[1:40:43] And we need a filter fabric, which is 500 bucks for a roll

[1:40:47] that will cover that.

[1:40:49] And then the plant plant makes material comes in

[1:40:51] to about $8,000.

[1:40:54] So the, the, the total

[1:40:56] for the entire project will be $140,942.

[1:41:02] We have just over 96,000 in our current reserve fund.

[1:41:06] And then when we switch

[1:41:08] to our new fiscal year on July fir first we have another

[1:41:11] 150,000,

[1:41:14] which gives us $246,268 per play with.

[1:41:20] So we would have $105,326

[1:41:25] left in the reserve.

[1:41:27] Still to work on other areas

[1:41:29] after completing the Flint Road project.

[1:41:32] The only thing I didn't have on here for a number,

[1:41:34] 'cause I didn't have a quote yet, is

[1:41:37] Larry talked about getting a hammer attachment that we could

[1:41:41] use to get through ledge so we wouldn't have

[1:41:45] to interrupt the drainage.

[1:41:47] And I got a quote from United

[1:41:52] and they can sell us a hammer attachment for

[1:41:54] 10,500 bucks so that we can

[1:41:59] Is that a month? That's I install

[1:42:01] That's that would that it would be ours. It's a

[1:42:03] Hydraulic hammer.

[1:42:04] Yeah. That, that price is installed on it.

[1:42:06] We've got a a John Deere 60. Same as what?

[1:42:09] We have one of those, we bought

[1:42:10] that one fer a couple years ago. That works great.

[1:42:13] That's, If you're gonna do ditch work

[1:42:17] and you, you're going down through,

[1:42:18] you're gonna hit some ledges here,

[1:42:19] here and air streak ledge.

[1:42:20] You can hammer it out with that.

[1:42:22] So you can keep the ditch flowing like you should. Yeah.

[1:42:24] Same thing with the, the secret to the under drain is

[1:42:28] you gotta have it five feet, eight

[1:42:29] and you gotta keep it going.

[1:42:31] You can't just like go up over hump

[1:42:33] a legend back down again.

[1:42:34] 'cause the water B bubble up in the road.

[1:42:38] So if you're gonna do that kind of work, you almost a mo

[1:42:41] otherwise you have to shut the project down

[1:42:43] and wait for somebody to come with a hammer.

[1:42:45] You're gonna eat up that $10,000 real fast.

[1:42:47] Try to get somebody to come in every time you need it.

[1:42:49] Hit a chunk of ledge. It would be a great

[1:42:52] tool for the town to have.

[1:42:53] So you're doing ditch work if there's any ridge of ledge

[1:42:56] that's in the way, instead

[1:42:58] of beating the machine stuff, trying to take it out.

[1:43:00] Or you just get that, throw that hammer on, lock it out

[1:43:04] and keep the ditch going.

[1:43:05] Good. It's, it's a good stress enough.

[1:43:09] It's, it's good investment.

[1:43:11] It goes on the excavator.

[1:43:13] It'll go right on town. 60 John Deere 60 excavator. Okay.

[1:43:17] And where you'll, if you have like a water bean break

[1:43:19] or something the winter time,

[1:43:21] and this is frost needs, we break around it, broken

[1:43:24] around it to fix it

[1:43:25] or any other thing you need

[1:43:26] to build jackhammer frost real good.

[1:43:28] We, we use it for s if you're gonna do,

[1:43:32] if we're gonna do the drainage work ourself,

[1:43:34] like we did it last year, our company did it.

[1:43:36] We had our own hammer and stuff to do it with.

[1:43:38] We had to ledge clauses so much cubic carry we hit.

[1:43:41] But, but the town's gonna do it.

[1:43:43] You'll have to get somebody come in special to take

[1:43:45] that ledge out and stop everything for

[1:43:48] at least a day. Okay.

[1:43:51] You got me sold on the, on the idea aspect of it.

[1:43:54] Just outta curiosity, kind of like a quick,

[1:43:58] quick change attachment on this. Take

[1:44:00] Coffee with Within an hour from bucket the hammer

[1:44:05] so you're not waiting half the day.

[1:44:07] I know, I'm just, well I just wanna make sure the guys are

[1:44:11] able to change that on the job and get it done.

[1:44:14] But if you got there on site,

[1:44:16] maybe take 15 minutes to put done.

[1:44:19] Okay. As you should. As you should. Making sure.

[1:44:24] So I mean if we're gonna do this,

[1:44:26] I mean we went, we did numbers.

[1:44:29] I was a little bitter last year on it at $75 a foot

[1:44:32] and we, with all the footage we're put in, it's,

[1:44:37] it's like 200 something thousand dollars.

[1:44:39] It would cost to have something like a

[1:44:41] contractor come in and do it.

[1:44:42] We can do it with our guys,

[1:44:44] but they just need the tools to work with to get it done.

[1:44:47] So if they, you know, they run in a trunk of ledge,

[1:44:49] they're gonna cut this stop 'cause somebody comes

[1:44:52] and removes it or they, I ain't gonna mention any names,

[1:44:57] but they have had some down in the past.

[1:45:00] They didn't get it down the right depth.

[1:45:01] If you don't get down five feet, the road freezes down

[1:45:05] to three feet or three or four feet and pipes at three feet.

[1:45:09] All water and stuff is froze around it and it don't work.

[1:45:13] So you gotta have it down low enough so the water gets down

[1:45:16] below across and drains out.

[1:45:18] And if you put it in, you do it right.

[1:45:21] The problem solves it.

[1:45:24] So, but you're gonna need to, you're gonna need a hammer.

[1:45:27] I definitely gotta run ahead of ledge here and here.

[1:45:29] It's just the way it is around here.

[1:45:33] I'm, I'm all for the hammer. I gotta,

[1:45:36] Oh, I'm Sorry Cody.

[1:45:37] No, you're, I was just thinking out loud is,

[1:45:41] and I'm assuming you've talked with Ellen Yeah.

[1:45:44] About this and he's pretty confident that Yep.

[1:45:46] They can handle this and Absolutely. Okay. Alright.

[1:45:48] He just wants to know what he can start. Okay.

[1:45:52] Or if he can start, do, did they give,

[1:45:54] like do you guys have like a timeline ish

[1:45:57] or like this is about how long you think it would take

[1:46:00] or? I'm not sure

[1:46:01] Of that one.

[1:46:02] They should be able to do this a couple weeks time.

[1:46:04] Not the drainage part but the roof surface itself.

[1:46:08] The drainage part will probably take, that was

[1:46:12] 2,500 feet.

[1:46:14] There'll be a couple weeks on that.

[1:46:16] At least three different sections.

[1:46:20] Okay. Just getting the drainage

[1:46:21] and then top dust after that. Yeah.

[1:46:23] Do the drainage first, then do the ditch it in drainage

[1:46:27] and whatever colors need to be done.

[1:46:28] And then the road service would be last thing. Yes.

[1:46:33] It'd be be an excellent test run to go going forward.

[1:46:37] We'll know exactly what the road crews capable of doing

[1:46:40] and how much they could do in a week's time

[1:46:42] and you know, may feet what the cost will be.

[1:46:48] And I, I think that road

[1:46:49] or that many homes on it was a good, good spot

[1:46:52] to start in, in my opinion.

[1:46:54] But

[1:46:55] Did, and this is kind of a side question,

[1:46:58] but kind of has to crawl back to this.

[1:47:00] Do you know with all the grading that's been done,

[1:47:02] are they using the roller afterwards?

[1:47:04] It sounds like the roller gets used just when they put

[1:47:07] down the calcium core.

[1:47:10] Is that

[1:47:12] It was my understanding that we bought the roller.

[1:47:14] So every time the road's graded you go over.

[1:47:17] Oh yeah. But this is a different type of situation. No,

[1:47:19] I I know my, my point with

[1:47:20] that is being if we purchased a roller for

[1:47:23] that purpose Yeah.

[1:47:25] Spent money and it's not being used,

[1:47:28] we're not gaining the benefits from it.

[1:47:31] I don't want to get into the situation

[1:47:32] where we're buying equipment and it's not being used. Yeah.

[1:47:35] I mean I I can ask him

[1:47:37] What I know it used.

[1:47:39] I know the hammer would used the roller

[1:47:41] They use is the purpose of that roller is

[1:47:43] after they grade the road to roll it put Clara on it.

[1:47:46] Yes. Yeah. You need a vibratory roller

[1:47:48] for this project initially.

[1:47:50] Yeah. And after that, when they grade it,

[1:47:51] they'll use a, a roller.

[1:47:53] Yeah. I I get that.

[1:47:54] My, it, my thing is I just don't wanna spend money on

[1:47:58] equipment if we aren't gonna use it.

[1:48:00] Right. Because it seems like the roller

[1:48:02] that we purchased isn't really being used like

[1:48:05] it was intended to be.

[1:48:07] It's just not being used. Yeah.

[1:48:09] Which means the roads aren't lasting

[1:48:11] as long from the grading,

[1:48:12] which was the whole point of buying the roller.

[1:48:16] So I just, I don't wanna see this when we do jobs like this

[1:48:21] that to carry over where we're purchasing equipment

[1:48:24] but then the equipment's not getting

[1:48:25] used. You know, like, well

[1:48:27] That, that hammer will sit there, do nothing

[1:48:29] until you, this chunk of ledge.

[1:48:30] Right. I I get that. I get that.

[1:48:33] I just, it's just in the back of my head just

[1:48:35] Where I was going with it.

[1:48:37] Do you live on that road? A good place for that?

[1:48:40] That's gonna get used and I'm gonna recommend it

[1:48:42] after is between the two Martins.

[1:48:46] Yep. Where the road always washes on the Baptist Street.

[1:48:49] Yep. And I know it's ledge.

[1:48:51] I know that's why there's no ditch there.

[1:48:53] You're talking about on the tree side? No,

[1:48:55] The Opposite side. The other side. Okay.

[1:48:57] It always runs down there

[1:48:59] and I know that's why it's not ditched.

[1:49:03] It's gonna slide you and that'll be a great place to

[1:49:06] Yeah, I actually just talked to him today about that.

[1:49:09] So different thing, but yes. Okay.

[1:49:12] When you Baptist Street, if it ever get to

[1:49:14] that rehab project there, that road would be up nine inches.

[1:49:16] So help some fire, get some sort of addiction. Yeah.

[1:49:20] But but still, I mean it's gonna cost

[1:49:24] with the amount of footage you're gonna do between and road

[1:49:28] and flip road, I guarantee you're going hit ledge at least

[1:49:31] three, four times I guess.

[1:49:33] Like Oh no doubt.

[1:49:35] And then if you have to stop everything

[1:49:36] and get somebody come and do it, probably gonna spend two,

[1:49:39] $3,000 every time just trying to get something

[1:49:42] that they could have just put

[1:49:43] that on in a couple hours time had gone through it

[1:49:46] and you're going to, you probably

[1:49:48] probably spend the $10,000

[1:49:50] hiring somebody else to come do it for you.

[1:49:51] Sure. And then you'll have this to go on for years to come.

[1:49:55] They do, they do require maintenance.

[1:49:57] You know, they gotta make sure you pump 'em the grease.

[1:50:00] 'cause if you don't grease 'em they'll wear out.

[1:50:02] And my like my big one, I got one

[1:50:05] that goes on a big excavator

[1:50:08] and we haven't had to do the little one yet

[1:50:10] because we haven't used that much.

[1:50:11] But you know,

[1:50:12] you're looking at $25,000 rebuild on on that size.

[1:50:16] The little one I'm guessing probably 5,000.

[1:50:18] But, but you know, if they take, if you keep it greased good

[1:50:21] and maintained it, it'll last a long time.

[1:50:25] Okay.

[1:50:27] My question, I just looked at the,

[1:50:30] the road rehab project letter

[1:50:32] and Flint Road's on it was,

[1:50:35] is there a reason Flint Road over the other

[1:50:37] versus Martin versus Baptist versus Chelsea,

[1:50:39] south Hill Tower George Sheer amount of people that the 80.

[1:50:43] So it's the amount of residents that live there. Okay.

[1:50:44] That's, that was my question by that road versus

[1:50:48] See if they can get more bang for the buck

[1:50:49] and that's when you get anywhere out for, for the

[1:50:52] Mileage.

[1:50:53] I just didn't know if there was worse roads.

[1:50:54] That was my my biggest question.

[1:50:56] That was right. They're all in bad shape.

[1:50:59] That's why I tell mean this.

[1:51:00] They're all in a first place tie for the worst. Okay.

[1:51:04] But this one gets it because they have the most residence.

[1:51:08] Makes sense. We see areas when we're checking roads that

[1:51:13] there was ditch work done previously

[1:51:15] that was on the hill like this never,

[1:51:17] never ripped wrapped it.

[1:51:19] It's all washed out Rees down through it.

[1:51:22] It would've been done correctly.

[1:51:23] They wouldn't have had that issue.

[1:51:27] The downstream is plugged with dirt

[1:51:28] because it's all washed out.

[1:51:32] And my biggest thing too is the town.

[1:51:33] That was the only question I actually wrote down.

[1:51:35] It's the town doing the work. No private contractors. Yep.

[1:51:39] And if there are any private contractors,

[1:51:41] if you know something comes up outta left

[1:51:44] field, those will go to bid.

[1:51:45] Yep. 'cause it's not an emergency situation. Correct.

[1:51:49] The only thing you're gonna need it

[1:51:51] is hire maybe a couple dump trucks

[1:51:53] when you're doing any overlay.

[1:51:55] That's just normal. Yeah. Chris

[1:52:00] Is there is a passable or unpassable

[1:52:02] during the construction.

[1:52:03] What's that Passable

[1:52:04] or unpassable during the construction?

[1:52:06] Will that section of road be passable?

[1:52:08] Will there be a one lane at least that people can pass on?

[1:52:11] Or will you actually have to shut down that stretch

[1:52:13] Of road?

[1:52:14] It is a narrow spots in the road that we Okay.

[1:52:16] There's ways around Boths.

[1:52:18] No, I know there's ways around.

[1:52:19] It's just notifying the,

[1:52:21] the residents I think is pretty important.

[1:52:22] The most economical way they can do it is to

[1:52:26] close the road to through traffic.

[1:52:27] Yeah. Because you know this areas

[1:52:29] where you can't because you only, it's

[1:52:30] They cheap.

[1:52:31] You're $1,743 is the budget based upon the number

[1:52:35] of residents you guys counted.

[1:52:36] There's no question that's the best

[1:52:38] bang for our buck for road.

[1:52:39] It's just residents should, some

[1:52:42] of those guys are gonna have long drive around

[1:52:45] Put the which engine,

[1:52:46] which end of the railroad you live on.

[1:52:47] You know, there's two ways of looking at it.

[1:52:49] Railroad's getting done, others aren't. So yeah, it's

[1:52:52] Not going one K anymore.

[1:52:54] Okay. I'm done. Some of them were this year.

[1:52:56] Yeah. Alright.

[1:52:58] Yeah, I don't, so should we make a motion on us?

[1:53:04] I'll, I'll make a motion to go ahead

[1:53:08] with this project and purchase the hammer.

[1:53:14] I'll second that. Motion. Motion made and seconded.

[1:53:17] Any further discussion? All in favor?

[1:53:24] The boys got some work. Do now. Yeah.

[1:53:30] You be flood road commission before we get done with you.

[1:53:34] Probably gonna be a lawyer too.

[1:53:43] Okay. Now we got a liquor license for the

[1:53:46] embers. I think it's,

[1:53:48] Oh this is the new Place, right?

[1:53:50] Yeah. I'm not quite sure about address

[1:53:55] business is Lila's way.

[1:53:56] I mean that's

[1:53:57] Where she, that's where she, that's

[1:53:59] Address.

[1:54:00] I kept looking at that every time.

[1:54:01] I'm like, why putting a fire?

[1:54:03] Yeah. No that's where they reside.

[1:54:05] They bought last year they bought Route 14

[1:54:10] and it's going to be a new restaurant.

[1:54:14] It's supposed to be opening, I believe the end this

[1:54:16] month. I'm not sure

[1:54:18] That where where, where is this gonna be located? Right?

[1:54:21] Right beside that lot.

[1:54:22] Right there in the house. Toward the house down.

[1:54:24] Oh okay. Where I lived.

[1:54:26] Oh, there's two houses that were for sale. Right?

[1:54:28] Oh, okay. Yes. Right across the town hall.

[1:54:31] Oh, it's called the embers.

[1:54:34] So they've applied where they're outside first class.

[1:54:38] Think third class

[1:54:43] Damon yet?

[1:54:44] What's that? We usually just,

[1:54:47] we usually approve these pending.

[1:54:49] No they have not. No, they have not paid yet. So. Okay.

[1:54:53] And I have not heard from your rock solid

[1:54:56] Fruit.

[1:54:57] I think they're still still good

[1:54:59] till the end of the month isn't it?

[1:55:00] They're still good till the end of the month.

[1:55:01] Yeah. So that, that's our business

[1:55:03] manager will take care of that.

[1:55:04] Okay. So we'll bring that. That's outta my hands.

[1:55:07] Okay. So, so right now it's just the embers.

[1:55:12] So do you wanna approve pending payment?

[1:55:17] Same as we've done in the past?

[1:55:19] Same as we've done in the past? Yeah. Yeah.

[1:55:24] Just quick. I guess I, okay.

[1:55:26] Can I hear a motion on that? I I make a motion.

[1:55:29] Make a motion. Yeah. I second it.

[1:55:31] Motion be seconded. Any discussion? I

[1:55:33] Just have a question.

[1:55:34] 'cause Mark said what is the difference

[1:55:36] between a first and a third class

[1:55:37] Or One is hard luck.

[1:55:41] I'm not sure if that's first or third.

[1:55:44] So the, so basically ger

[1:55:45] One is, is hard.

[1:55:47] Okay. Liquor. The other is probably

[1:55:50] a beer wine I would've imagine.

[1:55:53] Yeah. And then outside consumption, either

[1:55:55] They're gonna have like a porch or something.

[1:55:57] Okay. And you can bring, you drinks that out on

[1:55:59] The porch because I believe, I'm assuming the pub has

[1:56:01] that just Yes, but they have to stay on that porch.

[1:56:04] The pub, just the pub just got theirs. Okay.

[1:56:07] I have not received dollar general's yet either, but But

[1:56:12] That's one.

[1:56:13] Yeah. They can go off the porch. Okay.

[1:56:15] Yes. It's an outside where you can,

[1:56:17] Okay, that's, those are just My questions.

[1:56:18] It's like down to the den. They have

[1:56:20] that fenced in area that they have stake. Okay.

[1:56:22] Off to the right side of the building.

[1:56:27] Everybody all set? All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

[1:56:32] Okay, now the table. Doug, you everything I Scott? Nope.

[1:56:38] Clayton? Nope. Alright, we're all set.

[1:56:43] I need a motion to take a brief recess at your executive

[1:56:47] session for legal issues.

[1:56:49] Motion to take a five minute recess

[1:56:51] and then enter executive session for legal

[1:56:55] Issues.

[1:56:56] I'll show you that. One second. All in favor? Aye. Aye.

[1:57:01] I remembered to say what for this number. Thank everyone for

[3:20:14] Mute.

[3:20:15] And then do we have to vote come out before or

[3:20:17] after we had to come out first?

[3:20:19] No, you're gonna vote. You, you gotta be on,

[3:20:23] we were off camera too, right?

[3:20:24] Yes, yes, absolutely.

[3:20:26] Come out executive session. I make

[3:20:28] A motion to come out.

[3:20:29] Executive session. I'll second that. Motion.

[3:20:30] Motion raise Second. All in favor?

[3:20:32] Aye. All right.

[3:20:35] So I make a motion to authorize Ryan to work

[3:20:39] with legal counsel and the animal control officer

[3:20:42] to draft a decision consistent

[3:20:44] with our deliberative discussion

[3:20:48] Here.

[3:20:49] Second, I make motion May

[3:20:50] and seconded any further discussion? All in favor?

[3:20:54] Aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? I settle.

[3:20:59] Make a motion to adjourn. Second. That motion? All in favor?

[3:21:04] Aye. Aye.

Williamstown Select Board Meeting June 8 2026

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