[0:00] 26th meeting of the historic preservation commission to all apologies. I'm running about three minutes late. So, close to item only agenda, if I'll look at the right page is approval of the minutes from the August 19th meeting. So, if the members could please review the minutes, offer any corrections or amendments, or please offer a motion.

[0:29] Motion to approve. We have a motion to approve.

[0:32] Do we have a second?

[0:34] I have a second.

[0:36] That was first. All in favor?

[0:39] The motion passes.

[0:40] Okay.

[0:41] New business.

[0:42] First item on the agenda is for a COA for installation of signage at 63 West Candler Street.

[0:50] Map and parcel number are in your packet.

[0:53] If there's anybody here from the, from the occupant or the private.

[1:01] Can you please state your name?

[1:03] A.J. Burke-Hammer. I'm representing Unity Integrated Health.

[1:11] And this is just for the pictures here.

[1:26] And this is just for a single lamp post sign outside.

[1:30] It looks like a lamp post that's on the column.

[1:34] It's really?

[1:35] Okay.

[1:35] It was just the Photoshop thing that it looked.

[1:41] Okay, so it'd be on the corner of that column.

[1:44] Okay.

[1:48] So not covering up the lamp post.

[1:51] This

[1:59] is the same corner or this is a different, this is a different corner here.

[2:02] Okay, so it'll be two signs on different corners.

[2:05] Okay.

[2:06] H17 is a map, I'm showing you which corner so I have a side.

[2:11] Okay, they'll be published at that.

[2:14] Okay.

[2:16] And the sign meets all the dimensions requirements for the local sign ordinance.

[2:23] So do the members have any questions?

[2:33] On page 16,

[2:41] the second sign that you proposed

[2:44] is this on the back corner of the building?

[2:48] So yes sir.

[2:50] So let's see what page is this.

[2:53] Page 17 or the last page there should be kind of like an overview.

[2:59] Is this on the back corner?

[3:01] It is the back corner. It's the side that's faces of symmetry.

[3:09] It's on the side that faces the street that the missing clock lodge and the macaque.

[3:17] Thank you.

[3:19] To be a little more specific on the diagram, they've got it on the corner, however,

[3:25] where the placement will actually be is between the two pine trees where it will come

[3:30] That way, when they come down the road, you can see it from the full length of the road

[3:33] until you come to the intersection.

[3:43] And you said on this first one, that the sign is going to be posted on the building,

[3:49] on the curb.

[3:50] Yes, it looks like it's on a flagpole, yes, sir.

[3:54] And that's okay.

[3:57] And these don't look like they have any lighting or anything like that.

[4:00] They're just the same.

[4:01] No, ma'am.

[4:14] Can you have the questions?

[4:18] Thank you.

[4:20] Do we have any members of the public that would like to speak?

[4:26] No.

[4:27] Okay.

[4:29] Bring it back to the table.

[4:31] Does anybody have any discussion points or motions?

[4:39] Is that a motion?

[4:40] Okay.

[4:42] We have a second from Brandon, all in favor?

[4:46] Motion passes unanimously.

[4:48] Thank you very much.

[4:50] Appreciate you coming.

[4:51] Okay.

[4:53] The next and last item on our agenda is for discussion and

[5:00] Regulations for nominating historic property or site for recognition by the HPC. This is something that we've discussed in the past. That would be posted on, we'd recognize it and it would be posted on social media. So, the nominations are in your packet there. We want to just kind of go around the table with people who made nominations and just very briefly explained.

[5:29] explain why they made the nomination.

[5:32] So, okay.

[5:34] I think if you just maybe you first and then do just in order,

[5:40] but the order of the package.

[5:41] Okay.

[5:43] Let's talk on the court about it to you.

[5:45] And I was wondering if we could also kind of come up

[5:48] with like some criteria or like things that would help us

[5:53] choose like things to look for, you know,

[5:55] not like requirements, but maybe like some like things

[5:58] So we're kind of all on the same page like are we looking for ones that have already been restored are we looking for ones just based on

[6:05] Historic value as they are and then if they have been restored are we looking for ones that have kept to the period you know strictly like that kind of thing

[6:14] Are we just looking for like what are we looking for I guess okay, and are we gonna stick to just ones in the historic district or are we okay

[6:28] before it would be historic district.

[6:32] I know when I got a friend in the call saying,

[6:35] we forgot to look, but I was strictly trying to stay

[6:40] within the historic even though,

[6:43] I mean, I knew pretty much where the boundaries were

[6:45] and trying

[6:49] to stick it in.

[6:51] I'm going to recall that we had talked about things

[6:53] maybe outside the historic district

[6:55] if they were, you know.

[6:56] Of a certain age.

[6:57] Yeah, of a certain age, I think.

[6:59] Yeah, that would be great to raise awareness.

[7:01] I mean, it'll open it up more.

[7:04] On the center street, it's about a block and a half next door

[7:07] to the pet in half, which was the Valley Jennings house.

[7:11] It's where it ends from the things that are happening,

[7:16] that's absolutely.

[7:17] Yeah.

[7:17] And the district boundaries are a little bit,

[7:19] they're almost 40 years old.

[7:21] So we're looking at years.

[7:24] I'm just saying that the district boundaries

[7:26] were originally developed like 40 years ago.

[7:28] So they, as you know, they excluded, you know, certain older neighborhoods.

[7:33] So I think it's worth, you know, me personally, I mean, everybody else joined in,

[7:38] but I think it's worth bringing up other properties if we feel that they're significant.

[7:45] Well, my thought was, I didn't know at the beginning that we were supposed to do with the historic district.

[7:50] So the two nominations that I have are totally without side of the historical boundaries,

[7:58] but they have a age and they have a history.

[8:05] And I think as long as we're in the city limits, I think those things still matter.

[8:13] I don't think we should overlook them.

[8:16] It's good to keep those things in the historic district.

[8:18] We definitely want to acknowledge those, but I think Wyndham has a history and it's not all in just that one area.

[8:26] Okay,

[8:29] so would everybody generally agree that we can look outside the historic district for that?

[8:36] And Andrew's point, as far as certain criteria, what would we be looking for?

[8:42] So I thought we had talked about and maybe I misunderstood or maybe this is just my brain.

[8:49] We were looking for those properties where the owners and not just kept it up but also made it a prized possession property, right?

[9:02] So that's the criteria I was looking at like, okay, I know we've got some historical buildings but had it been kept up, are they being run down, etc.

[9:11] So I think if we're going to highlight a property by opinion would be, we highlight those properties particularly, at the beginning, who have to, the homeowners who have taken the time to keep the property looking historical and adding to it with its landscaping or keeping up with just the way the exterior maintenance, et cetera, and not just say, hey, well, this is historical.

[9:43] I agree with you, Brandon, because I think if all of the houses that we look at, and most of the ones that we're probably thinking about, may not have the same owner, but the houses have been maintained, and they feel their presence.

[10:00] There, you know, dropping out of the street, their presence still, you still, you know, look, and it looks, the curb appeal is without question. And I don't think we, I'm not going to say we should acknowledge the fact that there are houses that are historical, but they've been, they've not been maintained at all. And I think for us to acknowledge those people who have gone through the,

[10:30] the heartache in the back breaking work to maintain their houses should be acknowledged period.

[10:37] At least at the beginning of all this.

[10:39] Let's highlight the best and the best.

[10:41] And then if we somehow get to the end of that list and we need more, then we maybe start looking at some of those other properties.

[10:51] And if we do look at some of those other processes, not really just to maintain that might be an opportunity for someone, for someone, maybe to come in and see, and they may take it over.

[11:06] I don't think we should not ignore, I don't think we should ignore them, but I don't think we should make them a trial.

[11:13] I'm not a top trial.

[11:15] They still maintain the historical sense.

[11:23] Does that have general agreement or approval from some folks, okay?

[11:30] Does that satisfy your question about light sentence and parameters for this?

[11:35] Yes, that helps.

[11:36] Yeah, and what about like age?

[11:38] How far back do we want to go as far as age range?

[11:42] Well, national registry criteria has to be at least 50 years of age, so that's fine, okay.

[11:55] I'm just an auntie. I haven't had a historic yet.

[12:03] Okay. Well, if everybody's in agreement with that, then we can just, we'll go in the

[12:09] order of the packet here. And since I'm the first one in here, I'll go ahead. My two

[12:16] Two were 25 West Camers, Candler Street, that's the Jackson Johnson House, and then 47 North Jackson Street.

[12:24] The first one I kind of highlighted kind of through your second point, highlighting properties that need a little bit of TLC.

[12:31] This property's on the national register and I just thought by recognizing that it might prompt a little bit of awareness for it.

[12:39] Because it is very architecturally significant house.

[12:44] And then the second one was the night sky coffee roaster place.

[12:50] Those folks there, as I understand it, they used this sort of preservation tax credits to do all the right things with the building.

[12:56] And this kind of shows how preservation can really contribute to economic development.

[13:16] I just think it's so beautiful and I kind of looked at some pictures beforehand and but I mean it just has great

[13:37] That's really what I went off of.

[13:39] They didn't do a whole lot.

[13:41] I think the only thing that I noticed of like difference is like the back porch, they opened it up.

[13:48] That's the only thing I noticed, but I think it's beautiful.

[13:51] I just kind of went by like, you know, just keeping it but making it beautiful.

[13:58] And then the 88 North Center Street, I just think that house pops.

[14:05] like when you when

[14:09] you when you go into that street that's the entrance of the

[14:20] historic so I think it kind of sets the tone or it can that's kind of I went by

[14:28] curb appeal I really did I just need to get rid of that album that's almost a

[14:39] And the packet is a limb?

[14:43] Yeah.

[14:47] Well, we did the old athlete task too.

[14:51] So that was one of them.

[14:53] And then this house, which is also on the straight.

[15:00] I don't know if this, I

[15:04] don't remember if this is the one Christmas, it's out within our next door to it. I don't know. I think that's the one where she lives, but it was very made and well-capped and it looked like a brick. You know, claiming to that kind of thing.

[15:20] Well, that's been happening right there next to, uh, Miss, uh, Paisley's factors.

[15:29] Yeah.

[15:46] Next in the packet is the brand of it.

[15:53] Two.

[15:59] I chose this for a couple different reasons, one, when I think of this, just a historical

[16:06] neighborhood or historical buildings, like this one is top of my list every time.

[16:10] And this date prior to 1920, I don't know a whole bunch about it, I just remembered that

[16:19] my great-granddaddy wanted to bat for my great-grandmother, and she refused to move.

[16:24] They lived on broad street, but so I knew it went back that far to that way.

[16:29] Yeah, I just love to love with this house.

[16:31] I love how they've opened up the porch, which I would assume, was how it was built, and then

[16:39] how they were able to create that rot iron fencing with the brick posts, but they were able

[16:46] to closely match the natural brick of the home.

[16:51] The landscaping is amazing.

[16:54] It's just, it's a gym for the city.

[16:57] That was the time they had closed that open porch

[17:00] and for sleeping for.

[17:02] It's a real good thing that it's come back to beds.

[17:05] Yes, it's very nice and appealing.

[17:10] The second property is 85 North Center Street.

[17:13] It actually sits on the other side at the beginning of the historical district.

[17:20] Yeah, the wares, I believe, the folks that lived there, they have always done an amazing job.

[17:26] The people before them, they bought a fun, did an amazing job.

[17:30] I think it was Tommy Jennings, the old one.

[17:32] It was.

[17:33] Yeah.

[17:33] It was, and it dates back probably to the early part of the century and maybe a little bit before.

[17:40] or there was a Brooks, your chance to get rid of that.

[17:43] I lived there.

[17:45] Did you?

[17:45] Yes.

[17:46] I did.

[17:47] A friend of mine lived there, and I was moving

[17:49] to another apartment.

[17:51] It wasn't there.

[17:52] Is that a motion?

[17:53] Is that a minute?

[17:53] Yes.

[17:56] I lived there.

[17:57] Yeah, it's just another one with a great curb appeal.

[18:00] They've done an amazing job of keeping this historicity

[18:03] of the night.

[18:06] I bet one of my best friends lived there,

[18:10] and they started the renovation on their house.

[18:12] I don't remember the year, but they ended up selling it to Tom and Jennings and Tom

[18:20] he started, you know, finished up the renovations and everything so the house

[18:25] maintained as far as what I know is on the interior had maintained all of

[18:31] this historic work. The staircase, the molding, all of that was still there. They

[18:40] They did very little modernization to it.

[18:44] They just kept the spaces as it was, and like the living room and the dining room

[18:48] and all of that.

[18:50] And they didn't change the thing.

[18:52] They just made sure they just took the paint off of a lot of the old woodwork

[18:57] and got it back to natural.

[19:01] And the houses looked the same.

[19:02] This is almost the way it looked, right, before the first page.

[19:06] That's the first way it looked when they-

[19:08] And it's considered a three-story house.

[19:10] Yes.

[19:11] The attic is still open.

[19:14] But it's still maintained.

[19:17] If I agree with you 100% on this historical value, it is maintained that.

[19:25] Andrea, you were next to me.

[19:29] So I nominated, actually nominated 112 and 180, which is next to it.

[19:35] But it's outside of the district.

[19:39] And this picture doesn't really do it justice.

[19:41] It looks even better, I think, than this second picture because there's a lot more landscaping now, but they just did a fantastic job, it's the original owner, it's been in the family, the same family for regeneration.

[19:57] I think this is Christmas XS.

[20:00] Yeah, so his grandfather or great-grandfather? Yeah, grandfather. And so, yeah, so he moved back in and they totally renovated it inside and out. And he owns that two-storey house next door with a choir. And that one was in real disrepair when they took that one back over. So they did a lot of work on that one. It was really rough right now. It looks fabulous. So.

[20:23] I don't know.

[20:24] And this one, there were a lot of people, but there's going to be a lot of really deep in this

[20:30] particular way where it's really long.

[20:32] See, and you can't tell.

[20:33] Yeah, they did it on the back of the house.

[20:35] And it really did.

[20:37] In fact, when he came, I saw him right after the revelation, and I come to him anymore, the house

[20:41] looked like it's always been that way.

[20:43] I mean, the first picture that you have was, it was there, it had a presence, but it was kind

[20:49] of very subtle.

[20:51] And Christus awakened it, given it a new life, but he did not take anything away from the

[20:58] character and the basics of the house, the way it had been for years, really.

[21:05] Oh, because everything he did take away with, no, the garage, there was a three car garage

[21:09] over there.

[21:11] I don't think he's feeling it.

[21:12] They made it into a pool house, the car court that was back there, and they added to their

[21:17] Well, thank you.

[21:18] I was exactly the way it was.

[21:19] Yes.

[21:20] That's great.

[21:23] We have an attack rate.

[21:25] Did you go?

[21:26] Did you go?

[21:27] Did you go?

[21:27] Okay.

[21:28] Did you turn yours in late?

[21:29] No.

[21:30] I forgot.

[21:31] I had a senior moment.

[21:34] But my nominations wouldn't have been the Bush Chapel, A.B.

[21:39] Zion Church, over on the order street.

[21:41] just this past week they had the 165th anniversary. The Church is basically has

[21:54] a change very much. It's been renovated in some ways and you know everything

[22:02] but it's 165 years. In fact this was a church that I grew up in and it's been

[22:09] And then I had spent a member, this is where my family has been a member for over 70 years.

[22:16] So that's my one.

[22:18] And from what I recall, that's locally quarried granite.

[22:22] Yes.

[22:24] And the new house.

[22:27] Yes.

[22:28] The new, they just made a new addition, but it didn't take, they were very, very careful.

[22:32] We were very careful about the New Fellowship Hall

[22:36] that they just built to the side,

[22:39] but it did not take away anything from the church.

[22:42] They tried to maintain everything,

[22:45] even the stone that they put on the New Fellowship Hall,

[22:47] they tried to get it.

[22:48] It's not exact, it's not the same thing,

[22:51] but it's not the stone enhances

[22:56] and kind of gives you a feeling of the old church itself.

[23:02] So, and but that's my personal okay, my second one is my old school from it from I went

[23:12] from first grade until the 11th, this is the old Glenwood school that is now the Wimbledon

[23:18] Center.

[23:20] Now this school I don't remember the year so when if we do something like that, I will get

[23:24] the history from the very beginning and everything and have all that information for you but

[23:29] these are my two. And this school, if well over 50 years old, how was the school there?

[23:37] You're older than you.

[23:43] That was just too located from that same site before that one.

[23:48] This one was the second school, the original school was over on James Alwood Drive now.

[23:55] The building has been torn down, but it was a very first school for the African-Americans,

[24:01] and citizens of the county, that they went there

[24:03] because at that particular time,

[24:06] most of the schools were in with the churches.

[24:10] Now, right to the side, off to Bush Apple,

[24:14] they used to be a building,

[24:16] off to the left side, if you're facing this,

[24:19] with the face guns on the right side,

[24:21] if you're facing the churches on the right side,

[24:23] they used to be a school building there.

[24:25] And that's where my mom and my dad went to school.

[24:27] Most of the churches here in Staten and Bethlehem,

[24:34] yeah, Staten, Bethlehem,

[24:38] yeah, because this old school house

[24:41] in Bethlehem is still there.

[24:43] The old school house in Bethlehem church was there for a while

[24:47] and I can't remember if there was a school at the in Staten.

[24:53] But most of them had schools right around in the area.

[24:57] And so that's where they went.

[24:58] to take over the original first school.

[25:00] That existed in Glenwood was a two-story building of brick, and I should have brought a picture of it, but I did. I did not survive. But anyway, those are my two.

[25:19] I appreciate everybody sending their nominations. Good job. It's for liking the good cross-section of the town. So, I guess we need to take a vote. Do you have?

[25:31] They have to make a suggestion.

[25:33] Sure.

[25:35] If we look at the first page of on this, we've got a house that it seems like three people out of the committee

[25:48] have really brought that to attention.

[25:53] I think that should be our first house.

[25:57] and my saying is because it got brought up three times and I mean that it caught

[26:02] someone's attention and I think that should be our first house which is

[26:09] need to get the history of it. Okay? I agree. I agree with that.

[26:21] 31

[26:21] lesser students, 31 less students. Okay. And I'm a member of the Bear

[26:29] Preservation Society and I think that home was on our two or one year and we may have some

[26:35] Historical information from a booklet. I'll see if I can find that and I'll

[26:43] It has the cutest little basement apartment

[26:46] Yeah, I know it was on the pharmacist, right? They said they found some old bottles and stuff down the basement

[26:59] or something I don't know from, I remember that they did throw anything, but I'll try

[27:06] to send that. I'll try to send it to you. And I know the homeowner so I can tell him

[27:11] they've been nominated if you want me to make sure it's okay with them or to be featured

[27:15] if you want to.

[27:19] I'll get back to you offline. Okay. Okay.

[27:25] I have another suggestion. Okay.

[27:28] This first collection of homes that we've got, or buildings that we have seen today, I think is a very good start to what we want to do.

[27:42] And I think this is where we should go with these for whatever time frame that we have set, and each one of those, I think that would be a good thing.

[27:54] We were doing what, when we do it every two months, every quarter, can you move on me?

[27:59] At least every quarter.

[28:01] Okay.

[28:03] I think we got a very good start on that.

[28:06] And the most important thing with each one of these is getting the history of the house.

[28:14] That is going to, that's the most important thing now is acknowledging the history of the house as much as we can.

[28:22] Given that we have quite a selection here, you'd suggested we've got enough for every month.

[28:27] Do we want instead of getting two ambitious, do we want to do like every other month?

[28:32] I was thinking every other month, because I think once a quarter is not enough to like build excitement.

[28:39] I agree.

[28:40] So in two months, we'll look at the selection together and take another one and how I'd another one.

[28:48] If we can, as we look and bring something to the table, at least have a general history,

[28:55] I

[29:01] think that would be a good thing too.

[29:04] It doesn't have to be a chronological thing, but we need to have a general history of house.

[29:11] Some of that may be a little bit more challenging, but for some folks, if it's something we don't know a lot about,

[29:19] But we can try.

[29:22] I can pull out.

[29:24] I have a copy of the own National Register of Historical Society files for the National

[29:30] Register when they're doing the research.

[29:32] So that might help on.

[29:33] I don't know if it's going to align with any of these properties.

[29:36] The future properties.

[29:40] The easy information to get.

[29:41] We can always ask our colleagues Douglas and Lynn to know everybody's property and where

[29:49] it's at.

[29:50] They're not even paying you.

[29:51] Y'all just got nominated while you were talking.

[29:54] What?

[29:54] Good boy.

[29:56] You mentioned bringing the history enough.

[29:59] I have his name.

[30:00] I think in the comment that if we don't know it, because, because you're looking at it as like, and I said, we can always ask our esteemed colleagues not to listen when they seem to know we're all about historical properties are owned. You're the first on the call list. Okay, so if you need a formal vote for that, or just, it sounds like we've just kind of generally agreed. Okay. Well, 31 West State and Street, it is. Good job, everybody.

[30:29] Thank you for participating, and again, in two months we will pick another from the packet.

[30:36] I want to make sure I have clips of what we are going to kind of acknowledge some of the things that are in the city.

[30:44] Are we just going to stick to this floor?

[30:47] I think well, we've got the packet for our next couple of selections, but I think out, well, it's just the city.

[30:57] Okay, because we're not sticking to the historic district is what we can't do the

[31:01] consensus.

[31:02] The reason I ask is because then I want to make sure that I get, I'll be working on

[31:07] getting the history of my two nominations.

[31:10] Okay.

[31:10] And I'm going to get an in-depth history up.

[31:13] So yeah, they're in the city again.

[31:15] Yeah.

[31:15] They're in the city.

[31:16] Okay.

[31:17] Very good.

[31:18] Okay.

[31:18] With that, I'll take a motion for adjournment for this meeting.

[31:22] I motion to adjourn.

[31:23] We have a motion.

[31:24] We have a second, all in favor?

[31:27] Okay, thank you very much everybody.

[31:29] Have a good rest of here.

Historic Preservation Commission

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