[0:06] Okay. Good morning, everybody. The meeting of the Historic Preservation Board of the City of Winter Park for Wednesday, September 9th, 2026. I'll come to order. For the benefit of the audience, let me begin by stating the purpose of the Historic Preservation Board is to review and make a recommendation on all historic property designations and amendments to the historic preservation ordinance and consider certificates of review for alterations and additions which affect the historic character of designated properties in the City of Winter Park.

[0:35] The format of the meeting will be as follows.

[0:37] The chair will announce each public hearing item

[0:40] as it appears on the agenda.

[0:43] Agendas are available at the door.

[0:44] Staff will begin by making a presentation on each item

[0:47] to provide the staff's recommendation.

[0:49] Next, we will hear from the applicant.

[0:51] After that, the floor will be open to anyone

[0:54] who wishes to speak in support or opposition to the request

[0:58] or for anyone who has questions concerning the item.

[1:01] Please approach the podium and state your name and address.

[1:05] After all public input, we will close the public hearing,

[1:08] and there will be a discussion among the board members.

[1:10] Any appeal of our decisions is made to the City Commission.

[1:14] All electronic devices are to be silenced

[1:16] during this public hearing.

[1:18] The first item of business on the agenda this morning

[1:20] is the approval of the May 13th, 2026 meeting minutes.

[1:25] comments? Are there any public comments on the minutes?

[1:37] Do I have a motion on them?

[1:39] I move to approve those minutes. All in

[1:48] favor? Yes. Yes.

[2:00] You're going to ask

[2:06] us.

[2:11] I get so nervous with the audience full. Yes, so now you need to do the

[2:17] election of the chair and vice chair. Okay, so we should make a nomination,

[2:25] get a second person accepts the nomination and then you vote. Gotcha. So I'd

[2:31] like to nominate Kelsey Wolf for their second.

[2:39] And Kelsey are you online? Yep.

[2:42] Can you hear me?

[2:44] Yes.

[2:44] Now again.

[2:45] Do you accept the nominees?

[2:48] I accept.

[2:49] Okay.

[2:49] Yes.

[2:50] All right.

[2:53] Now we'll take a role.

[2:54] I do honored.

[2:55] Okay.

[2:56] Now we'll take a role call.

[2:58] Okay.

[2:58] Ms. Norris?

[3:00] Yes.

[3:00] Ms. Mooney?

[3:02] Yes.

[3:02] Ms. Bridges?

[3:03] Yes.

[3:05] Mr. Delaney?

[3:06] I think he's online.

[3:09] Yes.

[3:10] Yes, Ms. Wolfe.

[3:13] Yes, Mrs. Colfield.

[3:16] Yes.

[3:21] And I would like to nominate Rhett Delaney for Vice-Chair.

[3:26] Second that.

[3:29] Rhett, do you accept?

[3:32] Yes, and I thank you.

[3:38] Ms. Mooney?

[3:39] Yes.

[3:40] Ms. Norris?

[3:42] Yes.

[3:42] Ms. Bridges?

[3:43] Yes.

[3:44] Ms. Wolfe?

[3:46] Yes.

[3:46] Yes. Mr. Delaney?

[3:51] No objection, please.

[3:53] Mr. Scolfield.

[3:55] Yes.

[4:03] Okay. Now this will be a little bit interesting since our chair is not present but I think

[4:10] next we just need to call public comments for items not on the agenda. There's no one registered.

[4:16] All right, then we'll move on to the public hearings.

[4:19] First I need to think you need to applaud how fast we've gone from point A to point P to

[4:23] That is very true.

[4:25] It's 905 and we already have a chair and a vice chair.

[4:28] It's all out of respect for you.

[4:32] All the people in the audience.

[4:35] OK, so you have one public hearing either on your agenda.

[4:38] It's a request by the Winner Park Day Nursery for approval

[4:41] to construct a 1,025 square foot single story edition

[4:46] in the rear of their existing building

[4:49] at 741 Self-Pensalvania Avenue, which

[4:52] within the College Quarter Historic District and is owned R2.

[4:56] So this is before you today since it's in the historic district and

[4:59] they are adding onto their property to familiarize you.

[5:04] Here's a location right off Pennsylvania there near the railroad tracks.

[5:10] Part of this redo of their property includes an additional piece that was added to their holdings.

[5:18] and 2025, that little silver land next to the railroad track, that is going to be some

[5:24] additional parking, not relevant to your view, but in terms of adding additional square

[5:29] footage, it gives them additional parking for the additional classrooms they're adding.

[5:35] So, as I mentioned, single-story addition in the rear there, with the arrow pointing to

[5:40] the location of the addition, and R2, the rear setback is 10 feet.

[5:45] they are encouraging into that setback so they are requesting

[5:50] a variance for that addition along with the added thousand square feet they

[5:55] also are doing some interior modifications so the whole scope of work is just

[6:01] over two thousand square feet and it's a accommodate additional classrooms and

[6:06] bathrooms, conference space and storage, this expansion will accommodate

[6:13] additional 18 children but as I mentioned since the addition of that parcel to

[6:19] the north they're also adding 14 parking spaces to help accommodate the

[6:24] additional children they can now have enrolled. So here's a floor plan you could

[6:31] see the existing spaces that they're renovating down here with the added space

[6:38] along the back in this area.

[6:42] This show is the added parking spaces along the

[6:46] railroad track piece here, and then also some rework their existing parking lot

[6:52] here to gain a few more parking spaces. So they are adding, like I mentioned,

[6:57] 14 for a total of 35 spaces for the whole property. Then really what you're here

[7:04] to review is the architectural components of the project.

[7:10] So it's existing flat roof, concrete block, single story,

[7:18] facility.

[7:19] They're doing the same thing along the back.

[7:21] So continuing the same material is the same look, the same height,

[7:24] the same everything along the rear.

[7:28] Just zoomed in on the install, new doors,

[7:32] in Windows to match existing, same paint, to match existing, so everything is to match existing.

[7:40] This is just a view from the south side zoomed in, and then the only condition that staff

[7:47] is recommending, they do have some rooftop equipment that's not screened. So while they're doing

[7:54] this work, staff is recommending that that rooftop equipment be screened since you can see it from

[8:00] the right of way. Otherwise the materials and proposal is consistent with what they have

[8:06] today and staff recommendations for approval. And with that I'll take any questions aboard

[8:12] my half-for-staff.

[8:16] Are there specific variances that I missed on this

[8:18] that they want? Just a rear setback. Just the setback. Okay, right. In the back. No, I understand.

[8:24] I just wanted to see one clear. Any comments from the rear neighbors I assume?

[8:29] No, they had a community meeting because any expansions to a day nursery like this requires to go to the planning and zoning board and city commission.

[8:41] So part of that approval process requires a community meeting that they held last month, and I think they had a few people in attendance, but it was mostly questions about how they're going to handle traffic, pick up, drop off and just more inquiries about what their expansions include.

[9:00] I'm not thinking about architecture or concerns.

[9:06] Anybody else?

[9:10] Yeah, they are here if you have questions.

[9:13] Go ahead.

[9:23] Good morning.

[9:23] I'm Allie DeMaria.

[9:25] I'm the executive director of the Winter Park Day Nursery.

[9:27] I've been there 21 years.

[9:28] I've been the executive director for the past 14.

[9:31] I have with me Natalie Lamb from David Lamb and Co.

[9:33] Who's our builder that's working with us.

[9:37] Thank you, general contractor.

[9:38] What can I answer for you?

[9:41] I had a couple of questions about you're adding more children.

[9:45] And I wanted to make sure that this addition does not encroach on the outdoor play space

[9:52] for those children.

[9:53] How do you make the allowance for an additional 18 children to play outside?

[9:58] That's a really good question.

[10:00] The added classrooms are intended for infants, toddlers, and twos.

[10:05] So we're adding very small children.

[10:07] Our playgrounds, we have been incredibly lucky to have the space that we have, and the

[10:12] playground that we're taking most space from is our infant toddler playground, which was

[10:16] just renovated two years ago, three years ago now.

[10:20] And there is way too much space, little children get lost in crevices.

[10:24] So we're actually still well within our licensing requirement for 45 square foot per person,

[10:31] per child outside space, as well as the 35 square foot per child in source space.

[10:36] So there's still plenty of space out there and we're actually keeping it safer by getting rid of some of the corners that they can hide in.

[10:43] The other question I had for you was the parking that you're doing along the rear, that staff parking I presume?

[10:50] Correct.

[10:52] Would you be adverse to or maybe you're already using the gravel parking as opposed to the solid concrete or is it going to be?

[11:04] Is it going to be a geogrid material, and it will be permeable?

[11:08] Okay.

[11:09] So we can have kind of a crushed gravel in the geogrid.

[11:14] It's very for drainage, or they could choose to have grass with the geogrid.

[11:21] Okay.

[11:21] Because one of the biggest concerns that we're all facing here is concrete and drainage.

[11:28] and winter park all over is experiencing, you know, problems with that and hold and Pennsylvania and all we have issues.

[11:37] So I do want to make sure that that is permeable, whatever surface you use.

[11:42] Yes.

[11:42] Especially since it's staff parking.

[11:44] Yes.

[11:45] Good point.

[11:47] With the city, we worked with them and they prefer to be geo-grid material as well.

[11:53] So we're going to move forward with that.

[11:55] I'm happy with that.

[11:56] those were my two questions. I don't have any questions.

[12:04] So I want to make a couple of

[12:06] comments that are kind of unrelated to this for I'll take the privilege as a

[12:10] departing chair. I'll go in chair. Have you ever known me to talk to

[12:14] my? So there's some aspects of this that are near and dear to my heart and I'm

[12:19] part of this was I just retired earlier this year and I'm 66 years old and I've

[12:23] been around one apart since the 1960s and I've watched these things. So one of

[12:26] one of the most exciting, the biggest thing that I've satisfying to me is I've had young

[12:32] people next to me as I've become more mature and wiser and these things. So, you appear

[12:38] young, you may be 45 years old with a young face, but you appear very young. So, the best

[12:42] thing you can do is be next to other people who have been around the block, been at a place

[12:47] like this and sophisticated, so learn all you can, which is awesome. Okay. Secondly, my mom

[12:54] I'm a dad who passed away a long time ago.

[12:56] My mom, they came down from up north.

[12:58] My dad's the Harvard lawyer.

[13:00] My mom was a social worker.

[13:02] And so she was on the board of the colored day nursery

[13:07] when they proposed changing the name to the well-burned day

[13:10] nursery.

[13:11] And I believe, correct me, if I'm wrong,

[13:13] that the well-burned day nursery was the colored day nursery.

[13:15] And you were the white day nurse.

[13:18] And stuff.

[13:18] So it's a fascinating history.

[13:21] And I've got a connection to that a little bit

[13:23] with my family, and to a lot of the colored issues

[13:26] because I had a very challenging household,

[13:30] but the black maid was our stability, right?

[13:33] She was the rock when things got chaotic.

[13:36] And so there's a lot of psychiatrists

[13:38] who'd have a field day with it and stuff.

[13:40] And so the final picture is, as I get older,

[13:43] is that investments are weird, right?

[13:46] I put a little bit of money into an IRA.

[13:49] I've done my, for many years,

[13:51] I wish I did more when I was younger.

[13:52] and those are long-term investments.

[13:55] Everything now seems to be two to four years, right?

[13:58] So when you help a three-year-old,

[14:00] that will really help society in 20 years.

[14:05] What a crazy investment, like, I mean,

[14:08] we don't even have 20-year bonds, right?

[14:10] It's like it's crazy investment,

[14:12] but it's so critical to the future of the world.

[14:15] So I really appreciate your work.

[14:17] I have no expertise in it whatsoever,

[14:20] But I do know that a kid who has a troubled life as an adult versus a kid that has a stable

[14:25] life as an adult is a massive difference to society.

[14:30] That's why we do what we do.

[14:31] Yeah, yeah.

[14:32] And I appreciate that.

[14:33] Thanks.

[14:33] She's great in.

[14:35] Good.

[14:35] Thank you.

[14:36] So that's my little soap box.

[14:38] Thanks.

[14:38] Thank you.

[14:39] Appreciate that.

[14:40] Thank you all.

[14:46] I'm not chair now.

[14:48] Yeah, you're not chair.

[14:49] Kelsey can't read the room.

[14:50] So now take public comments, we did not have anyone register it.

[15:00] Now, is anyone willing to entertain a motion? Alison, go get us. Motion to approve.

[15:06] Second.

[15:12] Ms. Bridges? Yes. Oh, wait, do we get a second? Yes. Okay, sorry. Ms. Norris? Yes. Ms. Mooney? Yes.

[15:21] Yes. Mr. Skolfield? Yes. Vice Chair Delaney? Yes. Chair Wolfe. Yes.

[15:37] Now we'll move on to your non-action item.

[15:43] Okay, so we have here today the potential future

[15:47] applicant to discuss a demolition of the existing home at 726 Maryland Avenue, which is in

[15:57] College Quarter, oriented you to where this property is located, just one property off the corner

[16:05] of Holt and Maryland Avenue. Here's an aerial image of the house. You can see the lovely blue

[16:13] tarp on the roof. Here's the front view of the home, so it was built in 1938. So a few years after the

[16:25] The main college quarter neighborhood was constructed in the 20s and it has identified

[16:32] in the college quarter district that it's a contributing structure noted the architectural

[16:38] style is craftsman slash eclectic.

[16:43] I think it's made architectural features that it has are the log cabin siding on it as you

[16:51] here and he's zoomed in pictures. I don't think it's been kept up to the greatest

[16:57] condition. You can see the rot and all of the roof failure because of the blue

[17:04] tarp on it as well as the rotted sighting. Ron Scarpa here can explain more about

[17:10] what he's experienced throughout the house but these are the pictures of it from

[17:14] the outside. So what he's going to talk to you about today is demoing it and then plans

[17:23] for what do you replace it with, two options on the left and right overlay there on the

[17:29] survey. So the left kind of keeps the same format where there's the garage in the driveway

[17:37] way where you can see the cars from the front, the right side view where the ADU and garage

[17:44] and the rear is staff's preference because it then hides the cars instead of the cars

[17:50] being prominent in the front, puts them in the rear and then gives the opportunity of

[17:55] both options to have more of a front porch design which you see throughout the college quarter

[18:01] district. Here's some of their design, inspiration, images of what they like to

[18:07] replace the house with. So without stealing too much of his thunder, I'll let him

[18:13] explain. I love it more about the house and the plans, but then I take the

[18:18] opportunity if you have any questions for staff before I turn it over.

[18:25] Would

[18:25] variances be required for? We haven't gotten that far. So right now like I mentioned

[18:32] to just discussion item preliminary,

[18:35] no votes are being taken today.

[18:37] It's just kind of gauging the board's thoughts

[18:39] on potential demo and rebuild.

[18:42] I'm not sure that he's even gotten that far on variances,

[18:46] but I think the house is set pretty far back.

[18:52] So I think pulling it forward would be a variance,

[18:56] just because our setback rules are,

[18:58] has to stay where the existing house is.

[19:01] So, I think that might be the one, you could see here the red and the blue lines are in

[19:07] front of the darker underline lines underneath that, so there probably will be a front

[19:13] setback variance and potentially some rear with the ADUs, but that hasn't been finalized

[19:18] yet.

[19:19] I'm interested.

[19:34] Good morning.

[19:36] I'm Ron Skarp.

[19:36] I live at 767 McIntyre Avenue.

[19:39] I went to Allison and John and Nick with this project a while ago, and I've actually had

[19:48] it under contract.

[19:49] A lot of you know John Frees, he's the current owner.

[19:56] It's in an interesting condition.

[20:00] It looks like a log cabin, but it's actually log cabin sighting.

[20:06] I have more detailed pictures that I could provide for you.

[20:09] It's in bad shape.

[20:12] I mean, it's been covered and tarped for three or four years.

[20:16] It actually needs to be recovered and tarped.

[20:19] The tarps weren't out on there.

[20:21] It's, I

[20:25] know it's part of college quarter.

[20:28] The, we would like to do something completely different there.

[20:33] I have, I know from Allison's, the slide presentation,

[20:37] we gave her a couple of options.

[20:40] It's an interesting lot.

[20:41] it's very narrow. So to do even the rear garage, which we can do, it just makes it very difficult

[20:51] in terms of even driving back there in terms of car and winds up minimizing the front facade

[21:00] of the property. I'm just trying to figure it out. It's 45 feet in the front of the property.

[21:08] When I met with staff, the front, they told me the front setback is 25 feet ordinarily on that street, but the property sitting at I think 43 back.

[21:24] And in order to utilize it, I put a schematic up, Alison, can I go back?

[21:30] So, this was nothing more than just putting boxes over the survey of the existing house

[21:37] and trying to figure out how to make it work and I have an appetite for both of those.

[21:45] I can make something very nice using both diagrams really getting out of the garage in

[21:56] the back is a little bit of a challenge and one of my initial thoughts was doing like

[22:03] the story in a half house up front and that way it has some presence on the street.

[22:11] There's a beautiful home next to us.

[22:14] It was a Z property's little, now that's like three down.

[22:22] So right next to me is a little thousand square foot property that change hand several times.

[22:29] A current owner takes a macular care of it.

[22:33] On the corner to the north of me is the corner of Maryland and Holt.

[22:39] It's a rental property, but it's a super cute cottage, you know, it's yellow and very pretty.

[22:45] It needs, I feel like it needs something like that on the property.

[22:51] And I know we put some inspiration images or nothing more than inspiration.

[22:56] I think my goal was be to come to you, one, find out if I could tear the house down and

[23:03] then work, talk to the neighbors and come up with a design and a concept.

[23:09] So if Allison says I need a variance to pull forward, even though the property next to me is everything's more forward than me.

[23:19] But if that requires a variance, I would apply for a variance.

[23:23] It would probably also do a variance if we did a garage in the back of the house.

[23:29] Because it's so narrow, it would in order to get into it, it would need to be close to the property line.

[23:36] Now the yellow cute yellow house next to me, the garage currently there is very like a foot or two from the property line.

[23:46] I haven't surveyed it yet, but it's super close.

[23:50] And then on the farthest back of my property, Jay Geyser has a triplex, and I don't know, I think everyone knows Jay.

[24:03] I've already talked to him about it.

[24:06] He's on board.

[24:08] He's got a couple of properties he wants to do ADUs and other things.

[24:12] So he's pretty easygoing and that property has, it's a triplex for college students.

[24:19] So he doesn't really.

[24:20] He's interested but doesn't have a strong opinion, not allowing something like that to happen.

[24:28] The other guy, and I haven't spoken to him because I wanted to speak to you guys first.

[24:34] There's no sense in rattling the hornets nest until, you know, we have a little bit

[24:40] of an idea of what we think you guys are comfortable doing.

[24:45] That's really the premise of this conversation.

[24:50] Since the siding is just that, just siding, long siding, what is the actual construction

[24:56] in the house?

[24:57] Is it frame?

[24:58] It's all frame.

[24:59] Okay, it's it's like I when I walked it originally Margie. I kicked a

[25:05] Bering corner the one that has the net one that yeah, I

[25:10] kicked that and put my foot it like literally into the house. There's a lot of he said termites and I think they treated it along

[25:19] He tented it a long time

[25:21] He's sprayed some stuff that he got at home to evo on it.

[25:26] Raid won't kill the firm.

[25:27] He said he's treated it.

[25:30] It's an environment for, it's a good environment for bugs.

[25:33] In the back, it doesn't really show it much, but on his survey, it does.

[25:39] Like, if you look on the county website, it's got a single bedroom ADU with a kitchen,

[25:46] which is it's all very cute but it's just like falling down like the home like

[25:53] I originally talked with my wife about trying to manage the fireplace or

[25:58] saving some element of that house. I don't know it just depends what you allow

[26:04] me to do. There's not a lot savable there in terms of structure I think as you

[26:12] If you and I'd be happy for you to tour it, I could make arrangements with their owner, but it's it's pretty

[26:19] The back the back property is eaten up the front property is

[26:26] You know partially eaten as you get up higher up the walls it gets a little bit better

[26:31] There's even some pecky cypress on the ceiling. That's nice

[26:34] But the rest of it's just

[26:36] Just wouldn't it W. D. O's

[26:42] Yeah, I mean, you we could save some components, but it's it's in it's in bad shape.

[26:49] So I'm asking you one what I think I know what you'd like to see there.

[26:57] I just don't know in in what it's an R2 property, I mean, basically for sure the garage

[27:06] would be an ask if we're pushing the garage back there as a setback probably five and five

[27:12] on the setbacks for the garage. That would allow some sort of courtyard to back out of it,

[27:21] if that's what you wanted. If you front loaded, you can pull the house forward.

[27:27] It might look more traditional. There's garages on that street and a lot of them.

[27:33] it doesn't mean you want more of them.

[27:35] But it might give the only thing a front load garage

[27:40] would do there would be giving the property more yard

[27:47] in terms of how you could fix the,

[27:51] I know nobody knows more about long driveways

[27:54] than Margie and John, and all of us, we have them.

[27:58] So you still have some back out issues

[28:00] that you have to deal with, you do, and not have trucks. So this lot, if you love me,

[28:10] sorry,

[28:13] Kelsey, is that you?

[28:15] I just was just going to give my two cents, but if you got more, you want to go into?

[28:21] No, I'm okay. We could just keep talking about something.

[28:25] I mean, but I mean, still a little putting the cart before the horse talking about the garage, but since I guess we have to come to the conclusion that it's we're okay with it being demolished, which it does not look in good condition.

[28:41] And I don't know that it adds much to the neighborhood at this point, but the garage point for me is I would not like to see a front loading.

[28:50] I think that whatever variances needed the garage to be in the back like a

[28:57] like an old carat house type thing. So yeah, I just feel like the front loading

[29:03] garage would have worked for that neighborhood or that era. So that's just what

[29:08] I wanted to put in there real quick. I have a question for you and that is I

[29:13] agree. I agree with Kelsey that the front garage just would not be

[29:19] appropriate and I really really don't want to say I don't want to see the

[29:25] house torn down but I recognize that years and years of neglect have brought us

[29:32] to this point and it always was really a weird little house the placement of it

[29:38] was weird the lot size of it is weird there's nothing conforming and even though

[29:42] it is a contributing element and I don't want to start going down that slippery

[29:47] slow. I don't think I wouldn't have an objection to you in your hands taking care of this, but my

[29:56] My question to you really would be, um...

[30:00] And I know you're skilled at this. How many square feet would an R2 lot allow you to build versus an R1A lot? On a 45 foot wide lot? 2100 square feet. And is that what you were showing us? Both of those are roughly 22,000 square feet, 2100? Approximately, but there, as a reference, those are boxes. And my plan, so you know, if you

[30:30] did, for example, if you're doing a garage, you probably need 480 to 500 square feet.

[30:37] That's like, I think minimum for a garage.

[30:40] That gets one car in your bike.

[30:43] I'll see 400 square foot garage is 20 by 20 and people don't work.

[30:47] They don't work.

[30:48] Yeah, they don't.

[30:49] But it's okay.

[30:52] So on this property in order to like even magically get that the square footage, they

[31:00] you'd probably, you did a 500 square foot garage,

[31:04] we'd probably do something above that.

[31:06] 500 square foot for the carriage house,

[31:09] and then you have the ability to put the rest

[31:11] in the front house, and in the front house,

[31:15] what you would, what we would,

[31:18] I have, like I love the yellow house next to me,

[31:22] I think it's adorable.

[31:24] I think the carriage house concept

[31:25] were totally comfortable with that.

[31:27] But it's not as easy, but it doesn't matter, it's not necessarily about easy.

[31:34] And then you just try to create some sort of appeal to the neighborhood, to the porch,

[31:44] make something nice.

[31:46] I don't know, you know, when elevated, something's still slightly elevated, but cottagey, you

[31:52] know, elevated in terms of stepping up to a porch.

[31:55] like most of the old houses, because they were all on crawl spaces and everything else.

[32:01] And then in order to do it, you'd probably do the story in a half to try to get some sort

[32:07] of interest in the, because you're not going to get it all, you would bust the FAR if you

[32:16] stayed all single story there.

[32:19] You have to kind of do something upstairs.

[32:21] There's like two, like a master bedroom downstairs

[32:24] and two small bedrooms upstairs in the other house.

[32:28] Something like that.

[32:29] That's the configuration.

[32:32] And I can agree with that because I think

[32:34] that's what society and the neighborhood.

[32:37] I mean, we do need more homes that have primary bedroom

[32:44] on the first floor.

[32:46] I know.

[32:49] When we were 30, we didn't understand why that was important, but as we get older it's

[32:56] true.

[32:57] The things that I know that you could manage, because I've seen your work, I would like

[33:03] to see personally, I'd like to see it come forward.

[33:06] I think that's appropriate even for the street, and you have the land space to do that.

[33:11] My big concerns would be a porch would be wonderful. I don't want to see a front

[33:19] loading garage put that at the back, but I don't know how you do this, but in your

[33:26] design I would hate to see and we've had several of them in our

[33:32] neighborhood because of small narrow lots. Please don't make it so that it becomes

[33:40] such a, you know, four-point turn to get in and out of the garage.

[33:45] You know, I don't, if you need a variance to go right almost to the property line or whatever to make that happen,

[33:52] leave as much usable and permeable, you know,

[34:00] carport garage area, you know, turn around courtyard, whatever pavers, whatever would be appropriate.

[34:07] I just think that it is a little cottage and that's what's going to disappear, but you have the capability to reproduce, not reproduce that, but to produce something that is much like the neighbors next door, and that proved that number one, it's marketable, you know, and that's what's always been the big discussion, well, you know, but with the fine finishes that I know you've provided in your homes.

[34:34] the neighborhood supports that financially.

[34:38] I think it's ready for, I think it's ready to do something new there.

[34:44] And by new it should be something that's almost recreated in authentic to the neighborhood.

[34:53] And you know, we've been through these meetings several times.

[34:56] There's a lot of options to do things, but there I'm not thinking Spanish,

[35:02] I'm not thinking I'm thinking kind of cottage there and I think it kind of

[35:06] belongs there. It almost had what I saw just in terms of that image of the you

[35:11] know just the concepts almost had kind of a key west cottage yeah feeling to it

[35:16] and I thought that was appealing because some of the cottages that we have are

[35:22] kind of like that clavoured siding and that kind of thing and I think that

[35:27] would fit very nicely without unless you paint it paint or something you know

[35:31] of it. Well, jump in, John.

[35:39] He's already forgot. Okay, so a few things, so big picture on

[35:46] everything, right? So there's, with Marywood and everything, there's a big buzz and there's

[35:51] a lot of push, you know, that we're not, you, we're getting too invasive and we're property

[35:57] rights and we're keeping people from doing their stuff, you know? And so people are squawking

[36:01] and about stuff for what it's worth.

[36:03] But when it comes to a demoing at house

[36:04] and I've restored gazillion houses,

[36:08] there's different levels, right?

[36:10] So the sagaluses is one.

[36:12] That was a soil issue we allowed tear down.

[36:16] Carson's could have been brought around on Victoria,

[36:19] very likely, but we allowed that.

[36:21] It's an attractive house.

[36:22] Our board member here designed it

[36:25] and it's pretty for the neighborhood.

[36:28] Marywood is been claimed by architects and the applicants that it is just a mess and has to be torn down.

[36:37] It's the polar opposite of this, right? Marywood is a strong house.

[36:42] This is a mess and I think it needs to be gone down. I'm fully supported and I think it's right for the community, it's right for the city, it's right for everything.

[36:49] So I think that personally needs to be done and I think that's the first hurdle, right?

[36:53] You've got to get approval to do that before you can even move forward.

[36:56] The design things come back to us so we can work with that.

[36:59] When it comes to variances, I think it helps our image as to what HPB does to be able

[37:06] to be very giving on that.

[37:09] So we need to be able to tell people who say, oh my God, you're restricting it.

[37:14] I can't even paint my house.

[37:15] We need to say, oh, by the way, what he could have built was this.

[37:19] Yes, but since it's a historic preservation board, we allow this, this, this, and this.

[37:25] And in that application, I'm fully, I would not support a front load garage.

[37:29] I get that it makes logical sense.

[37:30] I just want some work.

[37:31] It's easy.

[37:32] It's easy because the aesthetics are destroyed to me of the look that we want to achieve.

[37:37] So I would, you're dealing with a very big challenge, 45 by one, 125 lots of tiny lot.

[37:43] However, I think you can mitigate that challenge sum by a few things.

[37:47] one if we can allow pulling it as far forward as it looks acceptable to the

[37:52] neighborhood, right? It might be 25 feet. Maybe that could be 20 feet or something.

[37:56] Maybe you could play with that. Secondly, you know, I mean, I don't

[38:00] not sure what happens in that five feet, but that's not like usable space on the

[38:05] ADU and the garage. And so if there wasn't an objection from your neighbors, and

[38:09] that was squeezed down to three, and we had the right to approve that, I think that

[38:15] That could help with the backing up.

[38:18] And then, mandate anybody that moves into the house has one of those minis, a little car.

[38:25] You're not allowed to do that, John.

[38:28] So that's the challenge, right?

[38:30] If you have an excursion, that becomes a big challenge.

[38:34] If you have my size car, no big deal, that's, I mean, I joke, it's all ingest.

[38:39] But if you just do everything you can, help out with that.

[38:42] And then on height, you know, I hate slab on grade for a traditional house, but, you know,

[38:48] stem wall slab on grade, but, you know, 8 or 10 inches up.

[38:51] Don't go 10 foot on the first sealings, go 9 foot, you know, second 4, go 8 foot.

[38:56] There's some tricks on second 4 to keep them massing down.

[38:59] You can go 7 foot posting in cathedral.

[39:01] Now you're 10 in the peak, 7 on the side.

[39:04] You got the massing under control.

[39:06] You know all these tricks.

[39:07] And then, and finally, let me comment that we as a board could be dealing with a very

[39:15] new builder who doesn't know what they're doing, who brings us a stacked white boxes that

[39:19] we fight and fight and fight and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

[39:22] And that would be a real pain for an neighborhood.

[39:26] So ungrateful as hell that you and your wife work these aesthetics through the college quarter

[39:31] because I feel like we're not having to buck butt heads with people who don't get it,

[39:37] Right. Oh, we love the quarter. I mean, I own a house one, two, three houses from this currently and I

[39:46] I'm gonna do something to it. I'm still we've talked about it, and it just hasn't happened and

[39:53] it it

[39:55] Between the little house next to me and then the one on the other side of

[40:02] 772 Maryland that's the copper door house and I know that was a that's been an

[40:09] example for various things but it's still aesthetically nice look yeah and I

[40:14] mean we have like three-story buildings across the street that are like

[40:19] look like towers but nothing and it's a little bit different subject but the the

[40:24] big push that oh my god it's gonna destroy your value the realtors of the

[40:28] world drew, who don't think like this, but are saying it's destroying your value.

[40:33] Drew and I and Zillow and everybody felt like Wendy's house was worth right at a million.

[40:39] It's a tiny freaking lot and it's old happy, can't be worth more than a million and it's

[40:45] over 1.5 or whatever.

[40:46] And why is that?

[40:48] Because somebody with enough money said, I want a house here, show me everything you've

[40:52] got and there ain't nothing that's good and livable.

[40:55] And so they paid a high premium, I think, because it was in a historic neighborhood in

[41:02] part.

[41:03] Maybe it's because it's just near Rollins, but I think all of the above.

[41:07] But what isn't near Rollins in the neighborhood?

[41:10] Anybody who squawks about it's killing value needs to think, oh my god, Zillow, everybody

[41:15] thought 1 million, and it sells for 1.5, so it's not killing value, you know?

[41:19] No, it's not.

[41:20] And the quality of the construction, no names mentioned here, but the quality of the new

[41:26] construction has been extraordinarily high and improves the neighborhood and provides

[41:35] that value that everyone is looking for, but also by maintaining standards of a historic

[41:43] district it protects everyone else and all the water rises all boats so to speak

[41:49] and there you go. I want to praise lately and I thought for sure it was going to be

[41:54] 1.1. John, it's a prize. You heard Drew's feelings, John. No, I'm very

[42:06] comfortable with a rear garage. I hear you about the setbacks. I will talk to

[42:13] I will start talking. I'll start kind of another concept of like a more

[42:19] finished idea of what we can put there now rather than front-low garage or

[42:25] whatever, just something. You need to know what it can't get torn down first

[42:28] then we have to do that. Correct. And then because I don't want to like talk to the

[42:30] neighbors and their first thing like the one guy that worked for I think his

[42:36] His name is Ian.

[42:37] I don't know who owns the cute corner, old historic home.

[42:41] The person next to them, they kind of rebuilt their house, and I think it was the E2 guy,

[42:49] and his...

[42:50] Rob Smith.

[42:51] Ian maybe.

[42:52] Ian is the...

[42:53] Was a superman.

[42:54] Okay.

[42:55] But anyway, I've talked to him several times, but not about this, but I'm going to.

[43:00] I've talked to Jay.

[43:01] I need to talk to the people to the south of me.

[43:06] And if you look at where their house and their porches to the south on this drawing and

[43:11] where the other cottage is, I don't know if I can, I can't do any hero on this.

[43:17] But if you look at the, what would be the yellow house to the immediate north?

[43:25] That's said back so far.

[43:28] Look at that.

[43:29] So, this house is the cute yellow house on hold, and this would be, I guess, their side

[43:38] set back because at the front of the house is hold, and then this house is here and this

[43:45] house is here.

[43:46] Well, if you drew a line from those two houses, you just outlined, and yours was relatively

[43:51] an open porch, but basically in that area, that could allow you to fatten up a little backup

[43:55] drive situation.

[43:56] That would help a lot.

[43:57] Yeah, yeah, I just don't I haven't I haven't put this on CAD and figured out exactly where that number is and if it's

[44:08] 25 or 23 or what what that number is, but that would be so the intent would be we'll figure out how to put something in the back

[44:16] Pull everything forward do the story in a half or at least have a

[44:22] like the porch and maybe front of house have a little bit of a single story

[44:27] presence and then it can climb a little bit to the back like we always

[44:31] wind up doing so this front elevation and massing at the street seems more

[44:37] appropriate.

[44:39] I like the scale of that because because of the cottages that are so

[44:44] close to you it keeps that massing and that scaling in proportion with the

[44:49] rest of the neighborhood yet you get the square footage that you want and

[44:53] It's so weird because even a walk back there to look around it's very hard to do if you look it's

[45:00] That's kind of a jungle. You don't even see back here. You can't even see the ADU. That's back here currently. Right. And then the neighbor right here has bamboo. And that's a little bump out. That's like a little two foot bump out in the survey. It's weird. I don't know why anyone even did that. But it's the uniqueness of the property. And then the other properties directly

[45:29] behind me are big and they have landscaping but everyone has an opinion we'll

[45:34] have to figure it out. Are there any sababal trees on that lot? And by

[45:41] sababal I mean quality you know the bamboo is I don't want to see. I think

[45:48] the warrant front is a nice one. This one might be something yeah it's an oak it

[45:56] might be in the right away.

[45:58] There's a lot of, I don't know what's a live oak tree,

[46:03] I don't know what's a laurel oak.

[46:05] If I looked at it and identified it,

[46:07] I can do that in a survey.

[46:10] That's just another thing I think would be helpful to,

[46:14] you know, I drive around Winter Park, you do too.

[46:17] I see so many scraped lots

[46:20] and Winter Park never used to allow that

[46:23] and now everything just gets scraped

[46:25] And all I would ask you is to be sensitive to that,

[46:28] because it improves our air quality,

[46:31] it improves water retention,

[46:33] it improves so much wherever you've got a decent tree

[46:36] that you can work with.

[46:38] If that's a live oak tree in the front,

[46:39] it's definitely worth saving.

[46:41] Even a younger laurel oak would be worth saving.

[46:45] I don't think we have any water oaks left at this point,

[46:48] too many hurricanes.

[46:49] But the laurels, you know.

[46:52] Well, it's a little bit of a jungle,

[46:53] but once we have an opportunity to get in there and I'll reconfigure something and I'll talk to you about the process of what to do next.

[47:02] So, so, Rhett, do you have any questions or comments?

[47:08] No, I have been going everywhere on the head. My apologies for not being there. I caught a bug while I was away and I don't want to get anyone sick.

[47:16] So I sell like a munderwater because I'm terribly stuffed up.

[47:22] But anyway, you know, 100% agree.

[47:25] Obviously, you know, we've seen the wrongs work in the past

[47:28] and how it takes great care of things.

[47:30] So we have all the confidence in the world

[47:32] and have been doing right by the neighborhood.

[47:36] I don't believe there's any other log cabins

[47:41] in the college quarters, that right?

[47:42] Right.

[47:43] No, there are.

[47:44] And one of its long spasad more than actually being a Lincoln long house, but I do agree with try to keep the scale the home in relation to not doing the tenor plus foot ceilings and keep in the trying to keep that front porch.

[48:12] You know, they would look to everything, you know, with the garage toward the back.

[48:16] So yeah, no, I mean, this particular home, you know, we, of course, you know, our goal is to save as many historical homes as possible.

[48:26] And, but also we have to be practical and realize that, you know, every once in a while, one comes across our desk that, yeah, that's not quite what we're looking for.

[48:37] when we were talking about the historic charm of winter parks so you know like I said you know like with Margie on the you know make sure if there's any trees we're saving you know make sure you know they had a little water retention and drain the toes things just make sure they don't affect the neighbors but all of all I think what is going to be put there is way more valuable to the neighborhood than what is there currently.

[49:08] That sounds good.

[49:10] Kelsey, do you have anything to offer?

[49:16] No, I think I said my piece.

[49:18] You guys hit all of the other notes regarding, you know,

[49:24] being given as far as the seriousness that we do, definitely,

[49:27] I think could be very open and helpful.

[49:31] The team effort and a good example of what we can accomplish

[49:35] when we work together.

[49:38] 100%.

[49:38] I agree with that.

[49:39] that's the whole idea.

[49:41] I think Cindy.

[49:43] I think yeah, I, you know, the home really doesn't have much

[49:50] saviable and I think if we demanded that it needed to be

[49:54] saved, it would be really hard to bring it up to code

[49:59] to make it livable and sellable.

[50:04] So I think what you're proposing and the inspiration photos you put out there I think would be a great, you know, addition to the neighborhood.

[50:19] Thank you.

[50:22] I would second most of what everybody said.

[50:27] I am very familiar with your work.

[50:30] I've seen the little house on Melrose that you did and the landscaping in the front and stuff is absolutely lovely.

[50:41] And so I would be for whatever you want to put on that lot that conforms to the remarks people made today.

[50:50] Thank you.

[50:53] Appreciate it, guys. I'll come back with something a little more.

[50:57] We have a motion usable.

[50:58] Or is it just a decision?

[50:59] Yeah, it's just an odd action item.

[51:01] Just wanted to gauge your feelings on what he's planning.

[51:04] And so now what he moves forward with the design.

[51:09] I think it would probably best if you approve the demo and the design together more than likely.

[51:14] But what we can talk about, they come in pieces or together.

[51:18] Okay.

[51:19] What I've heard is from everybody is, you know,

[51:22] everybody's gonna be supportive of demo.

[51:25] So I think it'll be, I think it'll be,

[51:27] I mean, like I said, I own something on that property.

[51:30] I think this is gonna be nicer than that.

[51:33] I'm, it's an opportunity.

[51:36] We'll do something great there.

[51:37] It'll be fun.

[51:38] Like Kelsey said, we'll work together

[51:40] and get where we need to get and everyone get comfortable.

[51:44] Thank you.

[51:45] Thank you guys.

[51:45] Just to see what you come up with.

[51:46] Yes.

[51:47] It will be interesting.

[51:48] Thank you, Ron.

[51:49] Thanks.

[51:52] All right.

[51:53] So now we need to move on to our action item.

[52:08] All right.

[52:09] So we have a joint work session with the commission scheduled for September 24th.

[52:16] You should have all gone the calendar invites for that.

[52:20] I think I've heard from Margie and John.

[52:23] They won't be able to make that meeting.

[52:25] but and Cindy, Rhett, Kelsey, will you guys be able to make that September 24th meeting?

[52:33] Yes, from me.

[52:36] I'm still working on babysitter, but I am definitely trying. Okay.

[52:40] Let me check. We're quick. The 24th is a Thursday. What time is it for?

[52:49] 3.30?

[52:53] Just both of that.

[52:57] Yes,

[53:02] I should be able to make it work.

[53:04] And I should be able to.

[53:06] I can get back to you later today.

[53:08] Okay. If you can't be there,

[53:10] I think there's an accommodation we can make

[53:12] that you can call in.

[53:14] So if you need that, just send me an email.

[53:17] I can be available.

[53:20] Call in. I'll be on.

[53:20] Okay, all right, since-

[53:21] Say I'll vote with Starlink, but-

[53:23] Okay, all right.

[53:26] Okay, so what we need to do today is I wanna finalize a list

[53:30] of the topics we're gonna be talking to the commission about.

[53:33] So I'd like to get a consensus on all of it.

[53:36] We mostly got a consensus at the last meeting,

[53:38] but it was a work session.

[53:40] So I'd like to actually take action on what the board feels

[53:43] comfortable with bringing forward to the commission.

[53:47] At the joint work session, the commission won't make, you know, we won't actually be voting on a code change or anything like that.

[53:55] It's just more of, again, another direction of what the commission is comfortable with and then we can work on the code.

[54:00] So I think we got consensus on this.

[54:05] Can I hear someone?

[54:07] Oh, Kelsey, did you,

[54:11] no, okay.

[54:12] I'm going to touch my head, but I'll just go over it again.

[54:21] We have on the Orange County Property Prizes website, we've worked with them to add after

[54:27] the zoning district designation and H after properties that are actually designated individually

[54:35] on our Monopark Register or are in historic district.

[54:39] So this would be another idea to get the word out on potential historic properties.

[54:47] So adding that PHP after the zoning district, and that would be the list that our consultant is working on right now of our listed in potential historic properties.

[54:59] So a great example would be Marywood and the 250 Virginia or the most recent ones that came before us.

[55:08] Those would, before a sale were to happen with those properties on the zoning district,

[55:14] on property appraisers that then get sent to MLS, which is where the database where all properties are listed to be sold.

[55:24] It would have that on there so that they know that it's a potential historic property.

[55:29] And it begs the question, well, what does this PHP mean?

[55:32] And it can start the conversation earlier potentially in the process.

[55:40] Next, I think we have a general consensus that the board likes the idea of reducing our potentially removing some of the requirements for historic designations.

[55:50] But I don't know that we've actually come up with which of those bullet points we actually want to do.

[55:56] But for just a historic designation, we require mailers to be sent out to everybody within 500 feet.

[56:03] We require ad in the paper to be posted before the meetings, and we require a sign to be posted in the yard.

[56:16] So this, we also don't charge for these historic designation applications because we want to entice people to do it, so we don't want to put money factors, a potential block to it.

[56:26] So it costs the city money to send out those notices,

[56:31] send cost money to put ads in the paper.

[56:34] In a journal one of those, I'd probably say it costs about the city $800, give or take, to do that type of notice.

[56:45] And it also takes time.

[56:47] If we didn't have to do the ad in the paper, we didn't have to do the mailing notice.

[56:53] If potentially all we did was a yard sign here we could get someone on the agenda a week after they asked for it

[56:59] And is anybody we're seeing an ad in the paper?

[57:03] Yeah, it's yeah

[57:04] You have to look in the in the classified section. There's there's the public notice section, which all

[57:13] People do actually because you know, we've been questioned, you know, what is this? I saw this or you know check sales

[57:20] There must be five people reading the paper

[57:23] I mean, what paper is that?

[57:27] Is that Orlando Sentinel or what are you using?

[57:29] Yes, yes, that's what we're doing all about, yeah.

[57:31] Yeah, okay, and it's a little bit cheaper

[57:34] for the city to do it on Sundays,

[57:36] so that's what we do the months on days.

[57:38] Yeah, save the money, because budgets be coming in big deals

[57:41] so we gotta address all those things.

[57:42] Yeah, but are you sorry?

[57:46] Is there any way to do like a survey to have people submit,

[57:51] like, you know, just, you know, I mean, is by law, you have to do it through physical,

[57:54] you know, like, you know, physical form, or is there a way we could start trying to, you

[58:00] know, collect data to get everyone, you know, the community's email address, so if we get

[58:04] extra money, email us for the residences that it qualifies as a proper notice, just, you know,

[58:12] let's say that might be when we reach more people rather than, you know, I don't know how many people

[58:17] We'll really read this that bill anymore.

[58:19] Yeah, it's mostly the letters and the mail

[58:21] that people get their notice from

[58:23] and the sign and the yard.

[58:25] I'd say the sign and the yard is probably the biggest one

[58:27] that people know something's happening

[58:30] because it just catches your eye.

[58:31] Like what does that sign say?

[58:33] And then one in the, in your mailbox.

[58:38] So it's in the point that you want your immediate neighbors

[58:42] to know.

[58:43] Right, that's the hard part on individual designations

[58:46] Is there anywhere in the city?

[58:49] It'd be one thing if it was near college quarter, you probably have a higher chance of getting college quarter residents, email addresses.

[58:56] But when someone's designating in an area that maybe doesn't have a bunch of historic properties around it,

[59:02] it could be hard to get emails.

[59:05] But I think to support leaving it up to you and staff to find ways like you've done, to cut costs, but still make sure neighbors know what's going on.

[59:13] time and cost. Yeah. Yeah. I think we all agree on that and some of the now outdated, you know,

[59:21] it used to be everyone read the newspaper so everyone would see that, you know, you published

[59:26] something but those days are gone. But yeah. Now, do we put anything? Do we use our city website,

[59:32] you know, Facebook and all those things that we use for the city? Do you ever publish any?

[59:37] Would you ever consider publishing a notice there? No, we try to keep public notice

[59:43] like that off other than directed people to our boards

[59:46] and meetings page.

[59:48] And so we have links on social media for that

[59:52] to direct people to the city website.

[59:54] But we don't typically put public hearing information

[59:58] on Facebook.

[1:00:00] You know, what doors that could open on comments and things like that. So we keep it on our boards and meetings page. Okay, but there's no other electronic type connection that we could use to do that, though. No, I mean, other than emails, but, you know, there's a lot of people that are signing up for our city and news emails, but we're not sure, I'm not sure if we track which one is a resident or, you know, where exactly they live. I think it's just to sign up and give your email. Okay. It's not, you know,

[1:00:29] Because the radius is within 500 feet of each property that would be designating.

[1:00:34] So then you'd have to find out who's email is within 500 feet of that house.

[1:00:39] Sounds like more work.

[1:00:40] Yeah, I don't know.

[1:00:41] The idea is to reduce the work of the house.

[1:00:43] Exactly, that's why I think the art sign is probably the most notifier.

[1:00:50] Yes.

[1:00:51] So I mean, if there's consensus, I can remove some of those other bullet points and

[1:00:56] I would just say reduce the nosing requirements for just a yard sign a week or 15 days or something.

[1:01:05] But I think it would be nice if we had some sort of an easily understandable sign.

[1:01:14] In other words, something that really says historic preservation or something rather than just,

[1:01:19] you know, the typical signs that you have to stop and read and see what the variance is for,

[1:01:23] or whatever, if there was some sort of a uniform sign from the city so that people got

[1:01:31] used to seeing that that was going to be a historic preservation, you know, a historic

[1:01:36] potential designation.

[1:01:38] You know, that might be something that would be beneficial to us as well because people

[1:01:42] would see, oh, that's a historic, potential historic property, that's what they're looking

[1:01:47] to do something with that.

[1:01:49] And yeah, so right now we have one sign that we ordered that you can check the box for planning and zoning or historic preservation.

[1:01:59] And then we have another one that's yellow that we use for variances, so we have to check with our vendor to see if there's a potential option of, you know, one of their color, but some other color.

[1:02:13] and then modify our order on planning and zoning.

[1:02:17] And there's something that we could potentially look into.

[1:02:21] Okay. I think it'd be easy.

[1:02:24] It'd be good if it was something

[1:02:25] that really was easily identified that way.

[1:02:28] Yeah. Separate from planning and zoning or...

[1:02:32] Right. Like a different color.

[1:02:33] Yeah. Or demo permit or whatever.

[1:02:35] Yeah. We have to check on one of their options.

[1:02:37] There are other than white and yellow.

[1:02:39] Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[1:02:40] Okay, so I think we have consensus on that.

[1:02:46] Next is a public information campaign.

[1:02:50] So send out a survey to residents that are on that potential historic list.

[1:02:57] So again, this would come after the our consultant finishes the historic resources survey update.

[1:03:03] And we'd ask them these questions.

[1:03:05] Why have you not placed your home that is eligible for the historic designation on the register?

[1:03:11] And then what could this board propose to motivate you to place your home on the registry?

[1:03:17] And then we'd give them the current incentives and benefits to historic designation as well.

[1:03:23] So it's an information piece that they know what those incentives are.

[1:03:27] And also hopefully we can gain some insight why haven't they?

[1:03:30] That will be a very helpful but critical to be drafted in such way because there's this

[1:03:38] such an air that strong army you to designate your house is historic is the taking of

[1:03:45] government from a blah blah blah blah and it has to be very gentle and then very clear

[1:03:53] on the advantages because I think that's what's all missed in the mix right and you know you

[1:03:58] you can XYZ and I know you guys staff in any communication department does an excellent

[1:04:02] job.

[1:04:03] Yeah.

[1:04:04] I would agree with that, especially that first question, why have you not placed your

[1:04:09] home?

[1:04:11] Is it very judgmental?

[1:04:12] That's all that.

[1:04:13] I guess.

[1:04:14] I'm sorry.

[1:04:14] Yeah.

[1:04:15] The last time I finalized, it's just the idea out there.

[1:04:20] Yeah.

[1:04:20] I know.

[1:04:21] Other stupid people.

[1:04:22] What's wrong with you?

[1:04:25] Okay, we got consensus on that one.

[1:04:30] Okay, same thing on this, the list of insurance companies and

[1:04:34] contractors that work on historic homes, we want to make sure that we're not saying that we endorse or

[1:04:42] recommend these companies, which is just ones that we see in our city that are local that do work on the homes.

[1:04:47] That gets that gets a little tricky and the insurance company things Rhett can weigh in on that, but you know

[1:04:55] You basically have agents who I do this with my boat to there's generic boat insurance companies

[1:05:02] But there's others that are very creative. They know how to ensure old boats and stuff like this

[1:05:05] And so there's probably agents and Rhett would know because the mortgage brokerage goes with us all the time

[1:05:11] You know go ahead Rhett

[1:05:14] Yeah, yeah, I mean there's there's a few out there better

[1:05:18] Yeah, you really gotta go to independent brokers that can go shop everybody, you know, it's

[1:05:25] really hard, you know, go to the big box, you know, stay far, it was an off-state, you

[1:05:31] know, USAAA, you know, they've always given us trouble, but there's a lot of regional insurance

[1:05:38] companies that have more of an appetite to help, you know, insure our historicals.

[1:05:47] And I know it's tough when the city refers and I've got 30-some years of being a remodeling contractor in town and so I can't tell you how many people said, well the city told me they're not supposed to really say anybody, but you guys should be, you know, so the city and the building department is like we're not supposed to recommend anybody but go ahead and say you gotta be super careful with that.

[1:06:07] Yeah, for sure.

[1:06:08] I don't know how you navigate that, but it has to be aware.

[1:06:11] Well, potentially, don't you have an opportunity by saying something to the effect that not

[1:06:20] all insurance companies readily provide insurance to historic homes, however, we recommend that

[1:06:31] that you consider looking at mortgage brokers and insurance brokers, and in other

[1:06:38] words, a lot of people don't know that they're, you know, they just know about the

[1:06:42] three big insurance companies.

[1:06:45] And so if we could say, you know, as you're going, as you're exploring this, please consider

[1:06:52] also these insurance brokers that know how to navigate.

[1:06:56] state for instance, it can't be done, then now they trash the entire world of that where it could be created.

[1:07:02] Exactly. So I think that way you're not stepping on any toes, you're not even mentioning any names.

[1:07:11] You're educating. And I think that would be a helpful way to help people navigate that.

[1:07:18] And I'm not asking for any naming because I'm not even in my business anymore,

[1:07:23] anymore but the same way with remodeling contractors just specify that there are some contractors

[1:07:30] that specialize in doing this and then there are some that are mostly in new homes and stuff

[1:07:35] and just be aware of those differences.

[1:07:37] Well and and you might even to that point you might just say please be sure to educate yourself

[1:07:44] by looking at reviews and you know asking neighbors and you know that kind of saying I mean yeah

[1:07:49] Yeah, we can't, it's, it's a jelly case.

[1:07:51] Yeah, that's right.

[1:07:52] You know, it does not constitute an endorsement recommendation or guarantee.

[1:07:56] Right, right.

[1:07:57] I mean, those, those words have to be up front and it should be.

[1:08:01] But then when you have those words up front, we need to offer to Reds Point.

[1:08:05] There are people who know how to navigate those things.

[1:08:09] Right.

[1:08:09] But let them know who they contact, how they, how they find those people.

[1:08:14] Yeah.

[1:08:15] You know.

[1:08:18] Okay.

[1:08:18] I got I got a list from the sort of preservation officer from the city of Orlando, so

[1:08:28] Yeah, you do it. So wouldn't winter park wouldn't be alone and making a list like that. Good point. Yeah, we're not

[1:08:36] Okay, okay, so we can

[1:08:39] Find what other people are doing and copy do what they do exactly

[1:08:44] That second point is

[1:08:46] fascinating to me the next bullet yeah because I've heard people say 66% is a

[1:08:52] really tough hurdle you fought through that when you said gosh we did there's

[1:08:56] you know there's nothing else anywhere that's that high for a public vote yeah

[1:09:02] you know that's just not democracy so to speak and the people who vote not the

[1:09:07] whole thing like you say right right so I mean this one might be beneficial if

[1:09:14] If we don't come in with an idea that we just leave all of these bullet points on the table,

[1:09:19] who 51% or 50% plus one, or 60% or removing the return vote, a non-return vote to no,

[1:09:29] and kind of just have the conversation with the commission instead of going in with this is what we want.

[1:09:34] I think just starting the conversation with, we'd like to take a look at this.

[1:09:38] Here's some ideas.

[1:09:39] Yes, because you're sort of allowing them to have a little bit of ownership, but then yeah that we didn't come up with just one idea we have a bunch.

[1:09:48] Well, and I think it's probably highly unlikely that everybody on the commission or everybody who's looking at this would know that a that a not returned vote becomes a no vote.

[1:10:02] Yeah, I mean that is that's critical information, you know, so and I think that our commission should weigh in on that. I don't think that that's, you know, you can't do it that way when you're running for any other office.

[1:10:17] You know, if somebody doesn't vote, that's a no vote against you.

[1:10:21] Yeah, it doesn't work that way.

[1:10:24] Yeah, so.

[1:10:26] Okay, so we'll keep all those and just start the conversation.

[1:10:29] Okay. Next, so we have our 90 demo delay for all the properties on their potential historic list.

[1:10:41] We discussed their work session last time of having the start date of that 90 days after we talk about it at HPB first.

[1:10:50] So it's not, doesn't start the 90-day clock as soon as you apply for your demo.

[1:10:54] because you could apply for your demo and then have three weeks until I can get

[1:10:59] you on an agenda depending on when you apply or a whole month if they were

[1:11:04] applied today or tomorrow, let's say. So that it gives you a little bit more

[1:11:08] time without actually making the 90 days longer.

[1:11:13] Well, of course, if you have a good healthy list, it's okay, but that could have

[1:11:17] some unintended consequences, perhaps similar to like the what Ron brought

[1:11:21] forward, you know, pretty likely that that will be approved to be demoed.

[1:11:25] That's a different category, though, because this is 90, these are 90-day demo delays

[1:11:31] on properties like Marywood and 250 Virginia.

[1:11:35] So, ones that aren't in a district and ones that aren't individually designated.

[1:11:40] But they are qualified as if there's a list from the experts.

[1:11:43] Yes, they're on our potential.

[1:11:44] So, they're not going to put something like the one we just looked at on the list,

[1:11:48] probably, because they can, they'll see you.

[1:11:50] No, because it's already in the district.

[1:11:51] Well, no, aside from that, if it wasn't in the district,

[1:11:54] it was the right age, but it was a piece of crap,

[1:11:57] are they going to not put on the list?

[1:11:58] No, they're not going to.

[1:11:59] Okay, so there's a filter, yes, okay.

[1:12:02] Yeah, this is like the properties that we wish

[1:12:05] would be saved.

[1:12:06] Okay, gotcha.

[1:12:09] And then also that we would require as part

[1:12:14] of that appearance before HPV

[1:12:18] that there is, that the person asking to do the demo actually looks at evaluating

[1:12:26] redevelopation, adaptive reuse, or incorporation into a new project, partial

[1:12:31] renovation, relocation, redesign, et cetera, that they look at alternatives,

[1:12:36] that they have to come to us, I've looked at X, Y, and Z, and here's why it doesn't work.

[1:12:41] But it could be a structural report, you know, this is why, that they come to us with some sort of data,

[1:12:47] Yeah, which I think is what we were looking for at the 250 Virginia discussion.

[1:12:52] We all wanted to see that structural report, and we didn't have it, but maybe that could

[1:12:57] have helped foster the conversation.

[1:12:59] I think that's crucial.

[1:13:01] Yes.

[1:13:01] And I do like this 90-day change because then we're not blindsided.

[1:13:08] Yeah.

[1:13:09] Yeah.

[1:13:10] You haven't already lost three weeks before it gets to you.

[1:13:12] Yeah, potentially.

[1:13:13] And then to have them come forward and say this is why this house cannot be saved.

[1:13:21] And that way we can make an educated vote on which direction we think it should go.

[1:13:28] So I think that's crucial.

[1:13:30] And we require, you know, we're requiring them to come to the table with something.

[1:13:35] I thought about this.

[1:13:39] Okay.

[1:13:41] Let's see.

[1:13:45] I think I forgot one.

[1:13:47] permitting about. Yeah did I skip one? Thank you. Expected permitting for historic properties.

[1:13:52] We talked about this again last time. If you're historically designated in a district,

[1:13:58] you'd be moved to the top of the list. So instead of in the order received, we'd bump you up

[1:14:03] to the beginning. I think that's great because I mean, what a year's of doing this permitting

[1:14:08] used to be a lot quicker and a lot easier now. It's pretty long so that could be a big advantage for

[1:14:13] some people.

[1:14:14] Yep.

[1:14:16] Okay.

[1:14:17] And then I organized this into financial incentives, so I kind of reordered this list.

[1:14:23] We talked about this last time.

[1:14:26] The transfer of development rights, so that's let's say you have a historic property and

[1:14:33] you have 5% FAR left over, let's say it's, you know, 2,000 square feet and you're going

[1:14:39] to say I'm not going to build that 2,000 square feet on my property and I'm going to transfer

[1:14:44] over it to a receiving property designated them on commercial quarters.

[1:14:50] Let's say Lee Road, Orlando Ave Fairbanks.

[1:14:54] So I'm not going to build my 2,000 square feet here, but I'm going to transfer it over there and they can receive.

[1:15:00] I believe another 5 or 10% affair bonus to, you know, instead of being able to build a 10,000 square foot building, they can build a 12,000 square foot building. And then there's the deed restrictions on both, you know, so that you can't keep taking 2000 here, 2000 there, 2000 there, and then you have a 100,000 square foot building, you know, there's going to be a cap on it. And same thing on your property. If you say you're not going to build on your single family home, that 2000 square feet,

[1:15:29] Someone 10 years later will also know that 2,000 square feet can't be built there with the deed restriction.

[1:15:36] My question for you about that would be, I'm just a, I'm a regular homeowner.

[1:15:41] I'm going to buy a historic site and I want to, and I'm not going to utilize all the square footage that I could.

[1:15:51] How does the transfer of rights work if I don't own another property to transfer those

[1:15:58] developer rights to the agreement would be between you and the property owner of the

[1:16:04] commercial property on the road?

[1:16:06] So then you're providing that to the development.

[1:16:09] I understand how it works.

[1:16:11] I'm just wondering if I'm just Susie Q and I'm moving to Winter Park and I'm going to

[1:16:19] So the property owners within the receiving areas would know that they're in a receiving area and they would only be interested in you if they had a project where they needed additional square footage that they wanted to purchase.

[1:16:31] So they would be maintaining that that's what I was trying to get to, how people understand.

[1:16:37] Okay, so we would know the properties that have availability and then we would know the properties that could receive that availability.

[1:16:44] It seems unlikely to me that that would be utilized.

[1:16:47] I don't know what exactly the dollar savings are, but I don't know if people are going to want to

[1:16:51] encumber their possibilities to sell the property in the future and somebody go, I don't want bikes.

[1:16:56] I can't build this MAC daddy, so I'm not buying it, or whatever I can't put a huge addition on it.

[1:17:01] I'm not sure that it has legs, it would be interesting to see.

[1:17:04] But I mean, it's something we could try out if there's something that commissions interested in,

[1:17:09] but it could save like 250 Virginia, I probably had, I didn't do the math on it.

[1:17:14] But I'm sure they had left over FAR, and the new owners, I can't make this-

[1:17:20] I can't make this-

[1:17:21] I can't make this renovation work, I'd really need some extra funds to be able to fix what's wrong with the house.

[1:17:28] And I'm going to sell off this 2000s grid feed, I'm not going to build and that's going to help fund my renovation.

[1:17:33] It all depends on the numbers.

[1:17:37] And it's a way, it all depends on what they're saying.

[1:17:39] Them transacting the money where the city doesn't have to then come to the table with money,

[1:17:44] other than helping them facilitate the process.

[1:17:47] If they sell that 2,000 square feet, is it like gone forever?

[1:17:55] From that property, yes.

[1:17:57] It can't be built on.

[1:17:58] So if Mary would, you know, whoever the owner is, do we know?

[1:18:04] no. Okay. Just the mystery owner has got a lot too far there. They probably have 49,000.

[1:18:14] Oh yeah. I mean we're talking here limiting so. But still they could, couldn't they sell

[1:18:23] 10,000 to that guy? They're selling the right to build on. So if they could, they're selling far.

[1:18:30] So, right, but not the actual land, but the right to build on it.

[1:18:35] I understand that.

[1:18:37] And it's what they're selling is I could have 53,000 square foot home on my land.

[1:18:45] I'm obviously not going to build that, right?

[1:18:49] Therefore, 30,000 square feet.

[1:18:52] I can sell the transfer the development.

[1:18:56] commercial development on Lee Road could say I really would like to build another thousand

[1:19:00] square feet of office building here and I can't do it because of the far but now I can

[1:19:04] pay these people.

[1:19:05] Yes.

[1:19:06] Next dollars.

[1:19:06] Now I don't know if that X dollars is $7,300 or $50,000 or I'm not sure how that would

[1:19:11] That's there.

[1:19:12] That's the market.

[1:19:15] The market.

[1:19:15] Oh really?

[1:19:16] They can negotiate.

[1:19:17] Yeah.

[1:19:17] The market.

[1:19:18] Oh.

[1:19:18] Then that could have legs because the people development on Lee Road could say it's worth a hundred

[1:19:22] grant to me to be able to do that.

[1:19:24] Yeah, the city's out of that part.

[1:19:26] Oh, okay, I'm sorry.

[1:19:28] We're just facilitating it, keeping track.

[1:19:30] But then there would be a deed restriction

[1:19:34] on the Marywood property.

[1:19:36] Exactly.

[1:19:37] You know, right.

[1:19:38] 20 years from now, we know it's still there.

[1:19:41] Well, and lots of people that use conservation,

[1:19:44] you know.

[1:19:44] Yeah, it's common.

[1:19:45] It's these things and things.

[1:19:46] There are other, this is not new, but what this does do

[1:19:50] is create potential dollar value to someone which is not in a conservation easement or anything like that.

[1:19:59] You're just making that decision and it goes forward.

[1:20:02] It's done by business partner Anthony has a place next to his property in the Trulio or wherever it is.

[1:20:09] I think there was like a 50 acre or 100 acre conservation easement somebody didn't understand totally but nobody could build on it because they've done that.

[1:20:18] There's a lawyer in town Ken Wright I think that involves this and now all of a sudden is a big developer in Orlando is able to do something more than he was able to otherwise.

[1:20:26] So it's very common.

[1:20:29] From that standpoint and it's usually done with larger developers that are trading land, you know, unbuildable land swamp land and things like that.

[1:20:40] It's done that way larger throughout the state.

[1:20:42] But I think this has potential as a true benefit if it's framed correctly.

[1:20:50] You know, that people understand.

[1:20:52] Yeah, and guardrails on it, so it's not like we're going to be developing hundreds of thousands of square feet on our commercial quarters and it's going to get out of control.

[1:20:59] We have to set limits.

[1:21:01] Right.

[1:21:02] Has the City Attorney take that guy, Dan?

[1:21:07] Has he taken a look at this?

[1:21:09] No, we haven't gotten that far.

[1:21:10] I want to make sure this board likes the idea, the commission likes the idea, and then we'll get, you know, all the nitty gritty details for the rire now.

[1:21:20] I like the idea.

[1:21:22] Thanks.

[1:21:22] I do as well.

[1:21:24] Yeah.

[1:21:25] Okay, so we have consensus.

[1:21:28] Obviously still a lot of ironing out to do with the details, but general idea, okay.

[1:21:34] Okay, then reduce permit fees by 1-3 for all historically designated properties so it still covers the city's costs on the permits, but reduces the fees.

[1:21:47] I think we all have consensus on that.

[1:21:51] Then, so we have tax exemptions for improvements that you can get, but our code is the maximum that the state allows us to do.

[1:22:04] But we do have another requirement that your house be open 40 hours a week to receive this incentive

[1:22:12] To the public

[1:22:14] So that means 40 hours a week anyone can knock on your door and say I want to tour your house

[1:22:19] So the idea is just to keep everything else the same because we have we have a great procedure in our code

[1:22:24] It's just that it requires also to be open the 40 hours a week

[1:22:35] I think we have consensus.

[1:22:36] It's almost a personal problem.

[1:22:38] Yeah, we have, I mean, the timing of this one isn't the best just because of tax reform.

[1:22:44] So it would be removing another bit of taxes, but there's still a whole process again that you have to go into an agreement with the city commission.

[1:22:53] The board has to, yeah, exactly.

[1:22:56] So we'll see how this one goes.

[1:22:59] It's going to probably require a bit of a discussion.

[1:23:02] All right, then moving on to the two that I think we need to just discuss a little bit more.

[1:23:09] Expanding the lot split policies and the comp plan.

[1:23:14] So, we have one about, we used for 1290 North Park Avenue, which was a Gamble Rogers house on the lake.

[1:23:23] It was a unique property where it had the street frontage on the western side of the property.

[1:23:28] And they were able to split it off where the front piece was a non-leg front lot that would otherwise be allowed in our code because it needed variances and it's a leg front lot that we just say no splitting of leg front lots, but we made the exception for lots like that where the new lot is not a leg front lot.

[1:23:51] You know, we try to do this a bit with the Marywood property that you can't put it, you know, with guardrails on that it has to be a certain size and whatever else was added to that policy, but the main problem with these is that within 300 feet, you have to comply with the median lot area and lot width.

[1:24:15] So typically for these historic potentially designated historic properties,

[1:24:21] they don't comply with that 300 foot rule.

[1:24:24] But it would be adding another caveat that if you're going to designate the house,

[1:24:28] you don't have to comply with that 300 foot comparison to your neighbors.

[1:24:33] So I think there's a little bit of mixed feelings on this one at the last meeting.

[1:24:39] I just wanted to ask one more time before we finalize our list.

[1:24:42] Do we want to expand this?

[1:24:45] I mean, I mostly see it being used potentially in or in manner since that has a lot,

[1:24:52] you know, a mix of lot sizes in there and, you know, probably the next place that we could form a district.

[1:25:00] And so if you're splitting the properties in there, more than likely your neighbors are not conforming to the R1A or

[1:25:10] one triple A standards.

[1:25:12] And so then you're probably asking for a variance, but does it comply with the median?

[1:25:17] So that means you have to take everyone with 300 feet, look at how wide all those lots are.

[1:25:22] And if you don't line up with the property in the middle, you can't do it.

[1:25:33] It's a reminder.

[1:25:35] I'm sorry, does the Lake Wilbur application remember that one?

[1:25:38] The same Williams did, does that?

[1:25:40] Yep, so that one, I think we, that was before we changed our code to be more strict that if you don't comply with that median, you can't have it.

[1:25:50] That was more of a judgment call on, look at the average, how close are you to the average?

[1:25:57] Are you within 510 feet of the average width or 510% of the average lot area?

[1:26:05] We're just getting a lot of pushback on lot splits.

[1:26:09] So in 2023, we made the complaint policy stricter that if you're not at the median, then you can't apply.

[1:26:23] You said you got pushback against lot splits?

[1:26:26] Yeah, and it was never surrounding historically designated properties.

[1:26:30] I feel like the community felt more comfortable with that because at least one of the houses they knew what they were getting.

[1:26:36] It was more of the ones where you're scraping the whole lot and developing two new big houses.

[1:26:42] And the community was opposed to that part, yeah, I think the same thing.

[1:26:45] It's the ones like the World War I that got approved because of what we were gaining.

[1:26:51] That historic home was being preserved in order to split the lot.

[1:26:56] To help fund the renovation of the existing home, that's typically what these are used for.

[1:27:01] In the 1290 North Park example, they didn't have the funds to renovate the house that was there.

[1:27:08] Well, then they have the opportunity to sell off another lot, I don't know how much that lot's sold for, but

[1:27:15] to help with the renovation cost.

[1:27:21] So it wouldn't be opening up the door to anything other than if we're gaining historic resource.

[1:27:28] That-

[1:27:28] I think that's the point.

[1:27:29] Yeah, okay.

[1:27:30] Okay, so I mean it would be taking a larger lot and making it smaller, but you're keeping the house.

[1:27:40] And that becomes the win-win, I suppose.

[1:27:43] You know, I mean, yeah, otherwise it'll be at torn down probably.

[1:27:46] It'll get torn down and that's what we keep running up against.

[1:27:50] That's the wall we keep hitting every time.

[1:27:52] Yeah, we're dealing with one right now on Westchester in an ordinary manner that the house is on a larger lot that would

[1:28:00] We could comply with the R1A sizes.

[1:28:04] So if they were to take the house down,

[1:28:07] it's put the lot in the middle, it works for the R1A code.

[1:28:11] But the house is situated right in that middle line point.

[1:28:15] That if you were to split it, you'd have to take the house down to meet code.

[1:28:20] But if they could expand this policy,

[1:28:24] where they can ask for a variance to that secondary lot with, then the house could be preserved.

[1:28:32] I'm that's favorable to me, I mean, it's a it's a it's a dance with the devil, so to speak, but it's but how else can we achieve preservation of historic properties, and frankly, some of the land.

[1:28:49] I mean, you know that you know, I think it's this is by definition the charm of winter park is that we have these historic homes.

[1:28:58] We're not cookie cutter. We're not new. We bring something special to the, to the buying public, you know?

[1:29:07] So I, I, I supported, I don't understand it at like, to the degree you do, but I tried to judgment and defer to your

[1:29:16] recommendations on that. Okay. I'm seeing nods. Yeah. Yeah.

[1:29:19] We're at, can I see anything else?

[1:29:23] What does, can I see? No, no, what John said?

[1:29:28] I'm not sure,

[1:29:30] information being thrown out. And I'm not sure how it how many houses that we've been applied to.

[1:29:36] But I guess we don't have to know until it comes to us.

[1:29:40] Yeah, I was first to read. I trust you. I was thinking about that earlier, like, oh,

[1:29:45] where I got. Does that really apply to any? And then I thought about someone like Orrin Manor.

[1:29:49] And then I have one thing I still have on Pellum in Orrin Manor. And it's a huge lot.

[1:29:56] If it were split, the lots would match all the other lots around there. But the house is right in the

[1:30:00] Right. And I could preserve it, or I could just sell it, and actually, it's not my question of selling all this to Anthony anyway or not for that one. But so there are a lot of examples. There are a lot of examples. And obviously the house has to be somewhat situated on one side of the lot of the other. It can't be right in the middle, because there's probably one. Yeah, that's, that's maybe what I'm thinking. Yeah. As I dragged down the street, I would notice if there was what, like, very obviously, like, in obvious situation like that, like, there's one on orange avenue that they

[1:30:29] they did enough like splitting eventually,

[1:30:32] and they could probably split it again, really.

[1:30:34] But yeah, I was trying to think of my head of

[1:30:36] ones that would stand out that would be able to do that.

[1:30:39] And I couldn't really come and put any on the top of my head.

[1:30:42] But if one exists, we got this for them.

[1:30:46] Yeah, there's a couple of an orange manner

[1:30:49] that would work.

[1:30:50] So I mean, I wouldn't say that this opening this up slightly,

[1:30:55] you're not gonna be seeing lots

[1:30:56] but everywhere throughout the city.

[1:30:59] Because again, it has to be the right lot, it has to be designated.

[1:31:02] So we still have a judgment call.

[1:31:04] You can't, you know, designate a flying down log cabin in the middle of the city that doesn't qualify.

[1:31:09] And then say I want to split it, so still a judgment call.

[1:31:13] Okay, and then I think I got consensus the last time to remove this, but

[1:31:18] again, I just want to ask it again, is that 5% FAR bonus.

[1:31:23] So we have it in the land development code that the historic preservation board can do that.

[1:31:30] But in our comprehensive plan, we say max FAR, and there's no variances to FAR.

[1:31:36] So we kind of, I don't even know when this was added in there, probably 2015-ish, 2016-ish.

[1:31:44] And then we never updated the comp plan to be consistent with the land development code.

[1:31:49] So it's almost like an incentive that we can't offer.

[1:31:52] Or actually, it's not almost like it is an incentive we can't offer because it would be in violation of our comprehensive plan.

[1:31:59] And so I noticed that when I was looking at what we could do, do we want to put it in the comprehensive plan while we're changing the comp plan policies for lots, but so we want to add a 5% FAR bonus to historically designated properties.

[1:32:14] So the pro is, it could allow people more likely to designate because they can build more.

[1:32:20] The debt negative is something near and dear to your heart is I don't want to keep over building the freaking houses around here.

[1:32:26] I almost feel like that trumps the prior advantage in my feeling.

[1:32:31] I agree.

[1:32:31] The only thing is, some of these homes are very small and even just, you know, and the lots are small.

[1:32:39] So even just 5% really in the grand scheme of things, maybe they'd just be able to add another bedroom.

[1:32:47] Well, that's 300 square feet for Ron Scarpa's example, which could be meaningful.

[1:32:53] It adds another bedroom.

[1:32:54] Yeah.

[1:32:55] The details are where it gets, 5% might seem like it's a small amount, but you take 5% of that landmass there.

[1:33:08] Well, and changing the impervious, frankly, gets to be problematic as well for everyone

[1:33:15] else.

[1:33:15] We are just allowing ourselves to be perfect impervious.

[1:33:18] Right.

[1:33:19] No, you're right.

[1:33:20] But, okay.

[1:33:21] Well, I just, I, we, we shouldn't find ourselves, but to your point, I think it's a, it's a

[1:33:26] massing issue.

[1:33:27] It is.

[1:33:28] A massing issue.

[1:33:29] It's most an advocate for keeping things a little massing as appropriately, yes.

[1:33:36] Yeah.

[1:33:37] If it's something about a case-by-case basis, well, I mean, it would be because anything that's

[1:33:44] historically designated would have to come to you for approval of their plans.

[1:33:48] So I need addition or a new house, it would be coming to you.

[1:33:53] But I see the complication is that we got a comp plan that says one thing in the LD's,

[1:33:58] The land development code says the other so we have to pick one we have to pick one and decide which way we're going to go

[1:34:04] We can't yeah, and that's what I think Allison is suggesting is that if we felt that support that that still is a good and

[1:34:11] Sett of then you would move forward on an attempt to yeah, putting it in the comp lands

[1:34:15] It's well likely to be opening it up. I think maybe it's a cut it's an idea

[1:34:20] We're into your point you're the designer. You're looking at lots all the time and stuff and maybe it's we allow that

[1:34:25] That's might advantage possible, but it still comes before the board, if they-

[1:34:30] If you said it, up to five percent for it is, but the way it reads, it says you add a

[1:34:37] five percent for which they're going to take, you know, but that would give this board

[1:34:43] in future, you know, the-

[1:34:45] The maintained discretion or ability to-

[1:34:47] Exactly, up to a five percent for-

[1:34:49] Not guaranteed.

[1:34:50] Yeah, we give words method to say that's not guaranteed, it's a judgment call.

[1:34:53] Yeah, right.

[1:34:53] And that way, we keep the massing and the ability to determine, well, what that grants

[1:35:00] you is way much more than what we were.

[1:35:02] And applications that wouldn't be a good idea is a lot, you know, a half acre and they're

[1:35:06] trying to build a 40,000 square foot house, but now they can build a 45,000 square foot house.

[1:35:10] That's, and you can't know that when you're just saying 5 percent.

[1:35:13] Right.

[1:35:14] So, that's two might be the wording that we're, that we're, that we're, that.

[1:35:18] Yeah, it's based on your lot size, yeah, yeah.

[1:35:21] Okay, so so instead of removing it, we like floating the idea to the commission to then add it into the comp plan.

[1:35:30] Yes, okay, with the change in the wording.

[1:35:34] Yes, yes, yes, yes, and again, this is just to take the list of the commission.

[1:35:39] Yeah, what do they think they give us the same feedback that we are all doing together today.

[1:35:45] And then I actually have to write the codes and then you'll see it again more than once.

[1:35:53] Good.

[1:35:53] Yeah.

[1:35:56] All right.

[1:35:57] That's the end of the list.

[1:36:00] Good work.

[1:36:00] Great job on it.

[1:36:01] Thanks.

[1:36:02] Really good.

[1:36:03] Nice.

[1:36:04] That was an overwhelming looking process.

[1:36:09] Yeah.

[1:36:10] All right.

[1:36:10] So I think I got consensus on each and every one of these.

[1:36:13] So I'll move on to preparing the list for the commission.

[1:36:17] And that's all I have for you today.

[1:36:19] Can I ask you a quick question about the Maryland property?

[1:36:24] I just noticed one and I'm and it might be that I have it backwards, but it looks to me like there's that big utility box in the right of way. Yeah.

[1:36:34] But when I was looking at his plans, maybe it's reversed, but that's not where he intends to put the driveway then.

[1:36:41] No, other side.

[1:36:42] Okay, that's what I don't know my right from my left. So that's why I just wanted to make sure.

[1:36:47] Yes, the driveway would be in the same spot.

[1:36:49] That's what I would just want to make sure,

[1:36:51] because I thought, oh gosh, because I thought

[1:36:54] that it went down the other side, so.

[1:36:56] Maybe he could pay for somebody to paint butterflies

[1:36:59] on that box.

[1:37:02] And I'm not sure electric utilities department would like that,

[1:37:04] but they won't.

[1:37:06] I know.

[1:37:07] Well, they're not red.

[1:37:10] I love that, it's true.

[1:37:12] Yeah, I think there was a lot of science that went into picking

[1:37:14] that color that's supposed to blend in.

[1:37:16] I don't know we'll say vegetation anyway anyway okay I think yep we can

[1:37:25] That's right.

Historic Preservation Board Regular Meeting

Transcript