[1:23] [music]

[9:59] » Mhm.

[10:57] » [music]

[19:54] » Mhm.

[20:01] » Good evening. I'd like to call to order

[20:03] the Schenectady City Council Committee

[20:04] for Monday, April 20th, 2026. The first

[20:08] item will be a presentation by the

[20:10] Cornell Cooperative Extension.

[20:12] So, I'd like to invite both of our

[20:13] guests up.

[20:15] We have a beautiful microphone.

[20:17] >> Fantastic. So, we also have to scroll on

[20:19] our slides. Is that okay?

[20:22] We want to

[20:24] We can share the mic. Do you want to

[20:25] bring it up here?

[20:35] All right.

[20:36] Are we good?

[20:37] Hello. Good evening. Thanks for having

[20:39] us today. We're really excited to share

[20:41] our project with you and talk a little

[20:43] bit about more about how we can

[20:44] incorporate the city into this. My name

[20:46] is Kayla Picarero. I'm the recycling and

[20:48] composting educator for Cornell

[20:49] Cooperative Extension in Schenectady

[20:50] County.

[20:51] I also run the Schenectady County Free

[20:53] Cycles program.

[20:55] And my name is Yarrow Bautista. I mainly

[20:58] oversee the actual system

[21:01] and do various education sessions

[21:05] through Sycamore Collaborative.

[21:09] So, we are going to hopefully scroll

[21:11] through these for you all.

[21:13] And talk a little bit about why

[21:14] composting is important and why we're

[21:16] here to begin with. So, composting is an

[21:18] essential part of the nutrient cycle.

[21:20] You probably all heard of composting.

[21:21] It's kind of that dirty gross thing that

[21:24] has to do with food scraps and soil and

[21:26] how they're connected. Essentially, what

[21:27] we can do is is take food scraps that

[21:30] are destined for the landfill where they

[21:31] will end up methane and create all sorts

[21:33] of air pollutants and not so great

[21:36] stuff. So, we want to avoid that by

[21:37] diverting everything from the landfills

[21:38] and sending it to compost instead where

[21:41] it creates nutrient-rich soil amendment

[21:43] where we can use in farms and we

[21:45] particularly use it on school gardens in

[21:47] the Schenectady City School District and

[21:49] we're really proud of that initiative.

[21:53] I'm going to scroll.

[21:56] Um so, compost can happen at various

[21:59] scales. A lot of what we do is at the

[22:02] community scale.

[22:03] Um

[22:04] but uh for all intents and purposes, you

[22:08] would be participating in compost at the

[22:11] municipal scale which is

[22:13] definitely the most effective

[22:15] way to have composting because it

[22:17] ensures that access is

[22:20] to people throughout a community rather

[22:22] than um

[22:24] rather than

[22:25] sectional things like

[22:27] commercial composting which is only

[22:29] accessible to those that are able to

[22:31] afford certain costs and fees or

[22:34] individual composting which is only

[22:36] accessible to those that have the

[22:38] backyard space

[22:40] or the or the physical ability to be

[22:42] able to compost.

[22:47] So,

[22:48] question about how we do all of this.

[22:50] It's basically through the Schenectady

[22:51] Community Compost Project which is a

[22:54] partnership between six different

[22:55] organizations that are working together

[22:56] to bring composting to the residents of

[22:58] Schenectady.

[22:59] We are primarily focused on schools and

[23:02] community composting where most of our

[23:04] food scraps come from that we process on

[23:06] site at Fair Avenue Urban Farm in a

[23:08] composting system known as a static

[23:10] aerated pile or an SAP system or an ASP

[23:13] system.

[23:14] Our partners really quickly for you are

[23:16] [snorts] the Schenectady City School

[23:17] District's Farm to School program

[23:19] Schenectady Urban Farms, Schenectady

[23:21] Soil and Water Conservation District,

[23:23] myself at Cornell Cooperative Extension,

[23:26] Schenectady County and then Sycamore

[23:27] Collaborative which is where Yarrow

[23:29] works.

[23:30] Our compost system for more details, our

[23:33] ASP is a solar-powered composting system

[23:35] that can process up to 1,000 lb of food

[23:38] scraps per week

[23:40] and it's capable of, you know, diverting

[23:42] all of that waste by these aerated

[23:44] systems that you can see on the screen.

[23:46] There's a 4-month turnaround time on

[23:48] that nutrient-rich material. And like I

[23:50] said, the majority of our food scraps

[23:51] come from Zoller Elementary School. We

[23:53] also compost at two other schools and

[23:56] other districts and we bring it there

[23:58] and we process it on site. Everything

[24:00] that's turned over either stays on there

[24:02] or it gets brought back to the schools

[24:04] for the school gardens so that

[24:05] everything is full circle

[24:07] and that the kids are able to kind of

[24:08] get their hands in the dirt. This is

[24:10] what our system looks like when it's

[24:12] full of food scraps and carbon material.

[24:16] That's myself and the director of Soil

[24:18] and Water Conservation District standing

[24:19] on top of the pile and the handprints

[24:21] you see along the bottom are from the

[24:22] second grade class at Zoller Elementary

[24:24] School and they were able to come and

[24:27] put their handprints on and we dedicated

[24:29] it to them so that we could really

[24:30] incorporate the students. And then we

[24:31] bring the second grade class at Zoller

[24:33] every year to see the system and see

[24:35] where their food scraps go and and so

[24:37] they can understand exactly their their

[24:39] impact that they're having in the

[24:41] community which is really great.

[24:48] Um so, as as we mentioned before, Zoller

[24:51] Elementary is the

[24:53] major contributor

[24:55] to

[24:56] the actual composting system that we're

[24:58] managing over in the Fair Avenue Farm,

[25:00] but we also get input from the Sycamore

[25:03] Collaborative Food Pantry which is

[25:05] the destination for a lot is the biggest

[25:08] pantry in the in the region

[25:12] and it is where a lot of the regional

[25:14] food bank

[25:16] um

[25:17] grocery store pickups are destined to.

[25:20] So, we have various ways to try to

[25:23] reduce the the landfill input that is

[25:27] going in and instead take that over and

[25:29] compost it to shift that impact towards a positive impact

[25:34] rather than a negative impact. We also

[25:37] have community compost drop-off

[25:40] locations

[25:41] that are managed by Kayla

[25:44] in which we have over 110 families

[25:46] throughout Schenectady County that are

[25:48] able to divert their waste and they make

[25:50] an effort every single week to to do so.

[25:54] And we also have just lots of

[25:58] other occasional things like we support

[26:01] people that

[26:02] may have a lot of like fallen apples in

[26:05] the fall and things like that.

[26:11] Yeah, so

[26:12] as of very recently, we have been able

[26:15] to divert over 100,000 lb of organic food scraps which I'm going

[26:20] to ask you to clap for that because

[26:23] >> [laughter]

[26:27] » Um that kind of diversion is something

[26:29] that is unheard of for a community scale

[26:32] composting system. It takes a lot of

[26:35] effort and when you're considering that

[26:37] most of the things being diverted are

[26:39] diverted by kids from ages

[26:43] 5 to 11,

[26:46] it just really brings in the context

[26:48] that this is something that is affecting

[26:51] those kids in extremely extremely

[26:54] positive ways because they not only feel

[26:56] empowered but they are also learning

[26:59] critical skills like understanding the

[27:01] difference between materials and

[27:02] understanding this is

[27:05] something that is organic, something

[27:07] that is going to break down, something

[27:09] that is going to be able to

[27:11] after breaking down feed my very own

[27:13] school garden and feed other places

[27:16] throughout the community. They're able

[27:17] to see that with their eyes and they

[27:19] have multiple ways to kind of make that

[27:21] connection between the food that they're

[27:23] consuming and the food that grows

[27:26] on land.

[27:29] And um

[27:31] on top of that, it really brings in a

[27:33] lot of

[27:35] benefit to Schenectady in general

[27:37] because

[27:39] all of that material that would have

[27:40] otherwise gone to

[27:43] that would have gone to

[27:45] places before it going out to the Seneca

[27:47] Falls landfill is now instead not

[27:51] producing methane and other

[27:54] and or and other greenhouse gases that

[27:57] are that would have been harmful to our

[28:00] communities and our and our state in

[28:03] general

[28:04] and the grand

[28:06] and

[28:07] instead we are able to

[28:10] divert the amount of energy that it

[28:12] would take 31 homes for an entire year

[28:17] to power their homes. So,

[28:19] um

[28:20] for for context, we have also been able

[28:24] to even though this is a waste diversion

[28:26] effort to make sure that we're keeping

[28:29] as much food out of landfills as

[28:30] possible, we're also generating

[28:33] so much compost that again is then able

[28:35] to be utilized in various other spaces

[28:38] to bring nutrients those nutrients back

[28:40] to the community in community gardens

[28:43] and school gardens that are able to feed

[28:46] our kids, are able to feed

[28:48] our community members

[28:50] and are accessible.

[28:58] Okay. So, programming in general

[28:59] consists of a lot. We do a lot through

[29:01] the community compost project with all

[29:03] of our partners. We go into schools, we

[29:05] do waste audits, we go into businesses,

[29:06] we do waste audits.

[29:08] We support prospective composting

[29:10] programs which we're currently doing at

[29:12] right now in Scotia-Glenville doing that

[29:14] for another school. So, really excited

[29:16] to keep moving on and and trucking

[29:17] through and getting more schools on

[29:18] board.

[29:19] There's a lot more kind of buzz around

[29:21] the city school districts about what we

[29:22] can do there.

[29:24] We do all sorts of community drop-off,

[29:26] community giveback days. Just did one on

[29:28] Saturday at Fair Avenue Farm where

[29:30] residents come in and make a compost to

[29:31] bring back to their houses. So, we try to make it

[29:35] kind of community full circle events. I

[29:37] don't know if anybody's ever heard of

[29:38] pumpkin smash, but it's a really good

[29:40] time in November

[29:42] where we bring in the community to do

[29:43] things like this.

[29:45] We're smashing pumpkins and composting

[29:46] the waste. So,

[29:48] we have a full few weeks coming up of of

[29:50] educational programming for the kiddos.

[29:52] We're going to, you know, reach, you

[29:53] know, probably over 1,000 kids over the

[29:55] next few weeks, which is really

[29:57] exciting. So,

[29:58] we're really really proud of this this

[30:00] project.

[30:01] Um so,

[30:03] now we're finally at the part where why

[30:05] we're here tonight. So, where do we go

[30:07] from here?

[30:08] We are looking to do just everything

[30:11] that we can to divert food scraps and

[30:13] increase awareness and education. It's

[30:15] connected

[30:16] for a few reasons, right? We all know

[30:18] there's trash problem, right? Our trash

[30:20] day is is crazy driving through these

[30:21] streets, but

[30:23] we can support that by taking the food

[30:25] scraps out of that equation. So, if

[30:26] we're able to take that out, that's

[30:28] reducing the weight of the trash that is

[30:29] being put out, right? That's harmful for

[30:32] our actual people who are physically

[30:35] picking up the bags. We're reducing that

[30:37] weight. We're reducing the methane

[30:38] output from the landfills. We're

[30:40] reducing the actual amount of trash

[30:41] that's just sitting on the streets

[30:43] during trash day that's being picked up.

[30:47] Instead, we're giving people a little

[30:48] bit more autonomy and ownership over

[30:49] what they can do with their with their

[30:51] waste. Um so, composting at the

[30:53] municipal the municipal scale

[30:56] reduces strain on the system. It's a

[30:59] point of pride, honestly. Our system as

[31:02] it is right now is is really impactful

[31:04] and we could increase that. We're

[31:05] increasing it tenfold every time we just

[31:07] get one more sign up, right? Um we're

[31:11] expanding Schenectady's sustainability

[31:13] reach. Um

[31:14] I know that it's like a goal of the

[31:16] city, so it'd be really cool to partner

[31:17] on something like that. Um

[31:19] what we're looking to do and what would

[31:21] have the greatest impact would be to

[31:23] replicate our ASP system, our static

[31:26] aerated pile system, elsewhere in the

[31:28] city so that we can do the program even

[31:31] more, right? So, what we have at Fair

[31:32] Avenue, we serve 110 families. If we can

[31:35] serve more if we're not servicing

[31:36] schools, so we could certainly service

[31:40] quite a few hundred households out of

[31:42] in a system like that.

[31:44] And we are kind of looking for spaces to

[31:46] do that. We're looking for funds to do

[31:48] that. And the idea right now is that,

[31:51] you know, there's some spaces at

[31:53] Steinmetz Park in that neighborhood that

[31:55] would probably be a great place to start

[31:57] looking for that. Another benefit of

[31:59] that is some of the students in that

[32:01] area actually go to Dolly. So, what

[32:03] they'd be doing at school, they could

[32:04] actually take home and then their their

[32:05] families could be composting at home as

[32:07] well, which would be really neat.

[32:09] And we're we're looking to expand that

[32:11] way. So, educational efforts would

[32:12] continue with residents in that

[32:14] capacity. And then, if we were able to

[32:17] get a structure on site, we would be

[32:19] hoping that we would have a compost

[32:20] coordinator to then maintain that site

[32:23] and hopefully expand. So, yeah,

[32:26] the system is in the grand scheme of

[32:29] things, it's not crazy, you know, crazy

[32:31] number cuz you figure looking at around

[32:34] $20,000 to implement something like

[32:36] that.

[32:37] And the impact would be a few hundred

[32:39] families in that immediate area. And

[32:41] then we could offer it up to anybody

[32:43] who's willing to drive to that area as

[32:44] well, of course. Um and we're hoping to

[32:46] expand expand the program to kind of hit

[32:49] those marks and

[32:51] bring composting to more folks in City

[32:54] of Schenectady where

[32:56] we'd love to be more involved.

[32:58] That's all we have for you. Thank you.

[33:01] Questions or comments?

[33:05] Uh hearing none,

[33:07] I definitely appreciate you coming out

[33:08] to speak. Sincerely, having this

[33:10] presentation offers to your point, how

[33:13] do we reduce the strain on the system? I

[33:15] know you mentioned a few hundred

[33:17] families. Can you speak to what what in

[33:19] realistic metrics are for how many you

[33:22] can anticipate if the city adopted

[33:24] something like this in the first year?

[33:26] That is a fantastic question.

[33:28] Yeah. Um right now we have 110 and we're

[33:31] increasing about 200

[33:34] lbs. So,

[33:36] less than 1,000 would be another five

[33:38] about 500 households

[33:41] theoretically, depending on, you know,

[33:42] every household's different.

[33:46] And then I know in our personal

[33:48] conversations you talked about the

[33:50] differences between pick up and drop

[33:52] off. Would you mind just expanding on

[33:53] that? Absolutely. So, right now we have

[33:57] only pick up at the schools because

[33:58] that's our capacity.

[34:00] We have drop off in Central Park. We

[34:02] have two locations right now. It's

[34:04] really really convenient. 24/7.

[34:06] They're really nice looking drop off

[34:08] systems, if I do say so myself.

[34:10] And people are able to access them

[34:11] through a locked code and then they go

[34:13] and drop off their food scraps. And

[34:15] you're all welcome to pick them up in

[34:16] the truck, bring them to our static

[34:18] aerated pile system, drop them off, and

[34:19] process them there.

[34:21] It would be highly beneficial

[34:24] if we were to look at maybe a pilot

[34:26] program like Troy's. They did a pilot

[34:28] program from 2021 to 2023

[34:31] where they serviced 250 households over

[34:34] that period of time. They had a free

[34:36] base pilot program.

[34:38] And they were able to partner with Food

[34:40] Scraps 360, which is a local composting

[34:42] business. And they did a pick up

[34:44] program, which for a lot of folks is

[34:46] more convenient, right? You don't have

[34:47] to leave your house to drop off your

[34:48] food scraps. You just put a bucket at

[34:49] the end of your driveway.

[34:51] And they were able to fund that with a a

[34:53] matched USDA USDA grant. And that was a

[34:56] really successful program. So, there's both options, really.

[35:02] And the Sorry. No. Uh the last would

[35:04] just be any stigma associated with it,

[35:06] the smell. Can you just talk about the

[35:08] technology and how

[35:11] that's not the case. I'd love to talk

[35:13] about that.

[35:14] >> [laughter]

[35:14] >> Would you like to share about how close

[35:16] our neighbors are at our composting

[35:17] system? Uh 100%. So, we have, I think,

[35:22] three houses that are directly directly

[35:25] bordering Fair Avenue Farm on just one

[35:28] side. And on the further side, we have

[35:30] another house that just has a small gap

[35:34] between it and the location. Um

[35:37] there have been zero total reports since

[35:41] the the start of the program over three

[35:44] years ago. Um

[35:46] and

[35:47] many people are operating in the farm

[35:50] space

[35:51] on a regular basis. And there have been

[35:54] no complaints regarding to the smell

[35:56] because

[35:57] if the process is done properly, there

[36:00] are biofilters

[36:02] with all of the material being covered.

[36:04] And it being a static aerated system

[36:06] means that

[36:07] it is

[36:08] only really

[36:10] allowing for

[36:13] It's only really allowing for heat

[36:15] loving bacteria, which are the positive

[36:17] bacteria that are generally not going to

[36:20] create as foul of smells as something

[36:23] like

[36:24] um

[36:27] uh like anaerobic bacteria, which is

[36:29] something like if that if you were to

[36:31] leave something inside of a closed

[36:32] bucket for a prolonged period of time

[36:34] and [clears throat] you open up, that

[36:36] would be where you would have negative

[36:38] smells as opposed to composting, which

[36:41] is actively reducing that.

[36:44] Thank you. Um Mr. Doran? Thank you.

[36:47] Whereabouts in Central Park are these

[36:50] located? Sure. So, the composting system

[36:52] itself is on Fair Avenue at our urban

[36:54] farm. And so, we do have a drop spot

[36:56] right there. And then we have a second

[36:58] drop spot at the Sustainable Living

[37:00] Center, which is CCE property.

[37:03] Whereabouts is that in? Next to the

[37:05] tennis courts. Oh, sure. Okay. And my

[37:07] next question is, how many

[37:09] pounds do you think do you have a

[37:11] poundage of what you've collected so

[37:13] far? So, we just recently hit 100,000

[37:17] lbs of food scraps through the system.

[37:19] >> Who's at the 103? Yeah. Yeah.

[37:23] It's been a really great program.

[37:25] The community has kind of taken it and

[37:27] run. I just got three more sign ups for

[37:28] the community compost this weekend,

[37:29] which is really exciting cuz people are

[37:31] waking up now. Yes. Great. Uh if there

[37:35] are no other questions or comments, I

[37:36] think sincerely what your efforts have

[37:37] been able to produce over the few years

[37:39] at the community level is very

[37:41] commendable. I appreciate you demanding

[37:43] that appreciation.

[37:46] But only imagining what we can replicate

[37:48] at a municipal level, even with the

[37:50] monetary consideration towards the

[37:52] $20,000 with respect to our total

[37:54] budget, I think sincerely as we later

[37:55] addressed the concept of just waste

[37:58] collection and reuse, it is becoming

[38:00] just a growing challenge, not just for

[38:02] our system, but for our workers.

[38:04] So, I think considering these types of

[38:05] opportunities, it is a requirement and

[38:07] expectation not just for us, but for the

[38:09] next generation so we're able to leave

[38:10] them something usable as a product.

[38:12] [clears throat]

[38:13] Um so, thank you for your time. I look

[38:14] forward to presenting something with

[38:16] some findings for consideration at a

[38:18] future meeting, but thank you again.

[38:19] Thank you all so much. Thank you.

[38:24] So, at this time, we will have public

[38:27] safety. Uh so, I'd like to call the

[38:29] public safety committee to order. We

[38:30] have one item on the agenda, the

[38:32] Statewide Targeted Reductions in

[38:34] Intimate Partner Violence Initiative,

[38:36] STRIVE in year two grant. Uh it's

[38:38] Senator Vavulish.

[38:44] Good evening, everyone. Senator Vavulish

[38:46] here to

[38:46] present the, as mentioned, Statewide

[38:49] Targeted Reductions in Intimate Partner

[38:51] Violence Initiative, otherwise known as

[38:53] the STRIVE grant. This is the second

[38:56] year running.

[38:57] Uh

[38:59] To give a quick back brief on it, uh

[39:02] the governor has allocated money to

[39:04] equip law enforcement agencies, district

[39:06] attorneys, municipal services provide

[39:08] service providers, and other agencies

[39:11] necessary funding, guidance, and

[39:12] training to effectively respond to,

[39:14] mitigate, prosecute intimate partner

[39:16] violence through evidence-based,

[39:18] survivor-centered, trauma-informed, and

[39:20] culturally responsive interventions.

[39:23] It's a mouthful.

[39:24] Uh

[39:26] Ultimately, the county has been awarded

[39:28] a little over 1.1 million, which is

[39:29] going to be divided amongst uh our

[39:32] police department,

[39:34] uh district attorney's office, the

[39:36] county sheriff's department, uh county

[39:38] probation, Rotterdam police, and the

[39:40] YWCA.

[39:41] Uh again, this money's coming from DCJS

[39:44] for a contract period between April 1st

[39:46] and March 31st of next year.

[39:49] So, [clears throat]

[39:50] our portion, the Schenectady Police

[39:52] Department, is going to receive

[39:53] $338,433,

[39:57] which will go to support two dedicated

[39:59] detectives, one on days, one on

[40:01] afternoons,

[40:03] half the salary of one of our crime

[40:05] analysts, and

[40:07] other targeted overtime detail funding.

[40:13] All right, are there any questions or

[40:14] comments? Yes, Mr.

[40:17] Is this Is this part of the 2026 budget?

[40:20] This is This is Can we account for this

[40:22] in the 2026

[40:24] Say that

[40:24] >> Can we account for this in the 2026

[40:26] budget? Correct. The assumption was

[40:28] there.

[40:30] Thank you.

[40:31] To my knowledge, STRIVE is going to be

[40:33] similar to the Give Grants, and it's

[40:35] just not going away in the in in the

[40:37] foreseeable future.

[40:39] So.

[40:45] Hearing no other questions, going to

[40:46] have a motion to move this.

[40:47] >> So moved.

[40:49] Second.

[40:50] All in favor? Aye. Aye.

[40:53] Oh, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, not

[40:55] you. Sorry,

[40:58] Um

[40:59] Second. Second.

[41:01] All in favor? Aye.

[41:03] If there is nothing else to fall before

[41:05] Public Safety, I call for motion to

[41:07] adjourn. So moved.

[41:09] Second. All in favor? Aye.

[41:11] Thank you, we are adjourned. Um just for

[41:14] clarification, the first quarter report

[41:15] and finances being pulled. We'll have

[41:18] this back at our next committee meeting

[41:21] once Mr. Guptamok is available.

[41:23] That's clarification.

[41:34] » [clears throat]

[41:36] » I would like to call the Health and

[41:38] Recreation Committee into order.

[41:40] We have one item on the agenda.

[41:47] Um the updated

[41:48] Riverside Park

[41:50] skate park funding.

[41:52] Mr. Williams. Thank you. And I had the

[41:54] opportunity to meet with Assemblyman

[41:55] Santabarbara last week. He's very

[41:58] excited to hear that plans to receive

[42:01] state funding are still progressing

[42:03] forward.

[42:04] I don't know what status the budget is

[42:06] to date,

[42:07] but Assemblyman wanted to kind of poll

[42:09] the council. I know we have a few new

[42:10] members.

[42:12] This originally was considered in

[42:13] December of last year.

[42:16] And there was activities currently in

[42:18] place.

[42:19] Park is not sanctioned, but there are

[42:21] skateboard activities currently

[42:22] underway.

[42:23] I'm so taking it upon ourselves to

[42:26] identify some funding streams that would

[42:28] allow us to just renovate that space,

[42:30] and then bring it up to code. And then

[42:33] potentially as the city's inaugural

[42:35] skate park,

[42:36] was a

[42:38] point of consideration that not only the

[42:40] neighborhood association would

[42:42] recognize and would appreciate, but also

[42:44] the skateboarding community.

[42:47] So, I think at this time, just wanting

[42:48] to see if there's still that continued

[42:50] sense of this collaboration with us

[42:52] continuing. I think the last thing

[42:54] Assemblyman Santabarbara would like to

[42:55] do is get funding for a project that

[42:57] nobody wants.

[43:03] Any questions or concerns?

[43:06] Mayor.

[43:08] Do you have any conceptual designs on

[43:11] this, or what dollar value are we

[43:13] speaking of? We had a capital budget,

[43:16] and the numbers internally looked at the

[43:19] existing facility is about 18,000

[43:23] square feet.

[43:25] Uh replacing it with what's a concrete

[43:28] structure,

[43:29] uh

[43:30] estimates run like $100, $110 a square

[43:34] foot. So, that gets you to just under $2

[43:37] million.

[43:40] They also talked about

[43:41] they want some type of restrooms there.

[43:44] Do you put them where the

[43:47] current skateboard park is? The uh

[43:51] full adaptive reuse of the old pump

[43:53] station still hasn't happened.

[43:56] And Stockade Association also has

[43:59] requests in for funding for

[44:03] a sidewalk replacement program. I don't

[44:06] know if they are withdrawing that in

[44:08] favor of this, or they're looking for

[44:11] simultaneous funding, cuz the likelihood

[44:13] of getting

[44:15] those two projects funded is

[44:18] realistically slim in any one fiscal

[44:21] year.

[44:22] Okay, I completely agree. Um I think

[44:24] it's not limiting ourselves just on just

[44:27] the interpretations that we have

[44:28] internally

[44:29] with respect to just the design specs.

[44:32] We did have a conversation with one

[44:33] potential vendor.

[44:35] I think

[44:36] most of the agencies that support these

[44:38] types of efforts do a design-to-build

[44:40] component. Uh one of the individuals

[44:43] was not able to provide us a design

[44:45] without giving them the like a lot of

[44:47] fee, which is between $15,000

[44:50] but was able to secure a tentative

[44:52] design, and that took into consideration

[44:54] having a concrete slab report. The

[44:58] estimates were around $100,000.

[45:00] Um based on the scale, I think they

[45:01] projected at 20,000 square feet.

[45:04] However, their recommendation was if you

[45:06] build equipment on top of it, um there

[45:09] are tremendous cost savings, especially

[45:11] since their facility is able to manage

[45:13] manufacture it internally. Um and they

[45:15] were able to provide a scaled approach

[45:17] of an investment of 100,000 to 300,000.

[45:21] Um and that was provided to the

[45:23] neighborhood association and the

[45:25] skateboarding community not as an

[45:26] official like design, but just as a way

[45:28] to kind of conceptually move past just

[45:31] our thoughts to seeing what it could

[45:32] look like in reality. Um so, I think

[45:35] Assemblyman Santabarbara

[45:36] had a consideration for around $300,000.

[45:39] And one of the final points is in these

[45:42] projects with municipalities, it is not

[45:45] a far-fetched to have a scaled approach.

[45:47] So, they often talked about how these

[45:48] projects are multi-year and just to get

[45:51] the process started. At the present

[45:53] time,

[45:54] no skateboarding activities should be

[45:56] conducted, and there are. So, I think

[45:58] how do we respect that they do exist and

[46:01] allow them to function in a manner that

[46:02] is both safe and accessible. And

[46:06] truly final point was with uh

[46:08] considerations to the restrooms, I think

[46:10] in the interim having a port-a-potty was

[46:12] something that everyone recognizes

[46:13] better than people

[46:15] just using the bathroom out by the

[46:17] trees. Um so, I think as long as we have

[46:19] something projected down the line, that

[46:20] the neighborhood association very much

[46:22] just recognized as long as we don't lose

[46:24] sight of that in the future, they could

[46:27] be amenable to just whatever we're able

[46:29] to do with that.

[46:36] If there's nothing further to discuss,

[46:38] um Mr. Toro. Thank you, um could we get

[46:42] a copy of those specs and costs sent to

[46:45] me for the skateboard people and the I

[46:47] would like to see it. I mean, if Mr.

[46:49] Santabarbara

[46:50] Angela

[46:52] So, this is

[46:53] Santabarbara can get I mean, the full

[46:55] amount. I mean, you know, and and the

[46:57] question always was is that really where

[46:59] we really wanted it? I know during

[47:02] the ARPA money, we we had a nice space

[47:04] for them, but they kind of like there,

[47:05] but so, I think it's a bigger discussion

[47:07] as well, but I would like to see at

[47:08] least what someone presented.

[47:11] Right?

[47:12] Um so, I think

[47:16] part of the consideration was how do we

[47:18] ensure that we're making the most use of

[47:19] time. I think in all of my

[47:20] conversations, I've been very

[47:22] intentional saying I'm one of seven

[47:23] votes,

[47:24] but how do we ensure that we are

[47:28] being amenable to the fact that we could

[47:29] get this funding, that we could not. How

[47:31] do we save time? Because essentially, we

[47:33] can still use part of the 2026 year

[47:37] the funding allows it if it

[47:39] comes into place at the right right

[47:40] time. Um I can share those with the

[47:42] council. I think just I move from a

[47:45] space of just wanting to be very

[47:46] cognizant of as soon as the city truly

[47:49] touches this,

[47:50] I think everyone can understand that we

[47:52] are still liable for anything that

[47:54] happens within that area, regardless

[47:56] whether signs are up there or not.

[47:58] >> [clears throat]

[47:58] >> Um so, I was trying to be considerate to

[47:59] Mr. Williams' kind of work volume, but I

[48:02] can absolutely share those. It's just

[48:03] nothing official has started.

[48:08] Mr. Abdellatif. Um so, you're looking

[48:10] for a support a letter of support, or a

[48:13] total for us to renew last year's

[48:15] resolution?

[48:18] Mr. Williams. I don't think that's

[48:19] necessary as long as the

[48:21] council in its current form is still

[48:24] amenable or in agreement [snorts] with

[48:25] us continuing on.

[48:28] So, with respect to Ms. Wiggins, Mr.

[48:29] Chairs, and Mr. Inger, any of this

[48:32] sounds as though something that you can

[48:33] see us still proceeding forward with.

[48:36] Mr. Assemblyman Santabarbara was just

[48:38] looking to kind of just re-engage with

[48:39] that. Understood.

[48:42] Mr. Mayor.

[48:44] But again, in terms of the city's

[48:45] priority, we still may need some money.

[48:47] Had conversations with the state

[48:50] legislators in terms of finishing some

[48:53] of the paving and street work adjacent

[48:56] to the swimming pool, tennis courts, and

[49:00] greenhouse.

[49:02] We may also need a little bit more money

[49:04] to finish the conversion of the

[49:07] casino

[49:09] in Central Park, which was

[49:12] Santabarbara was uh very instrumental in

[49:14] getting that. And then in this,

[49:18] again, Stockade Association has reached

[49:20] out looking for a sidewalk program. So,

[49:25] I don't know which one

[49:29] would take priority as opposed to

[49:33] and this is a limited pot of money.

[49:36] Mr. Chairs. Um folds, Mr. Brown, for

[49:40] part that Mr. Williams had asked you

[49:41] already. Just verifying for point

[49:43] clarification, do we need to do an

[49:45] actual renewal of the resolution as

[49:47] >> No. Okay. It can just remain there. I

[49:48] mean, you don't have to you know you

[49:50] give it it's there. It probably asked

[49:52] for that money.

[49:53] Okay. Just making sure that we're we're

[49:55] in compliance and doing everything. I

[49:56] know he's giving respect to himself and

[49:57] to Ms. Wiggins, but I want to make sure

[49:59] that if it needs to be done properly.

[50:02] Well, the the Assemblymember asked the

[50:04] Council President just to take a the

[50:06] temperature of the the Council if

[50:09] there was

[50:10] if we're not in support of it anymore,

[50:12] then we would have to rescind it. Um but

[50:15] if we're if the sense of the Council is to keep

[50:19] ongoing as it is, then

[50:21] the Council that resolution is not that

[50:23] old.

[50:25] Four or five months old, so.

[50:27] And

[50:28] thank you. And uh Mr. Mayor, um just for

[50:30] that I know we

[50:31] know what this grant is. I What is the

[50:33] amount that you uh we've estimated for

[50:35] the sidewalk replacement that they

[50:36] originally asked for from the Stockade

[50:38] Association comparable to the 300,000

[50:40] grant that the Assemblyman is saying you

[50:42] can get for the skateboard park.

[50:44] I don't know what the number is for

[50:46] sidewalks, what they're asking for.

[50:48] Well, I would say they're probably

[50:50] asking for all the sidewalks.

[50:53] There is not enough money for that, so.

[50:54] [clears throat]

[50:55] Got you.

[50:56] Thank you.

[51:02] If there's nothing further to come

[51:03] before the Health and Recreation

[51:05] Committee, I ask for a motion to

[51:06] adjourn. So Second.

[51:11] All Committee's adjourned.

[51:13] All in favor. I

[51:16] Committee's adjourned.

[51:19] I just want to like to call to the uh

[51:21] inter-order Committee of Government

[51:22] Operations.

[51:24] Seeing one item on the agenda, I'd like

[51:26] to recognize Council President Carl

[51:27] Williams.

[51:29] Thank you. Uh so this is sincerely a

[51:32] continuation of a conversation that we

[51:33] heard at I think

[51:35] two previous Council meetings

[51:37] uh with an individual, Mr. Sage, coming

[51:39] up and asking the city to endorse a

[51:41] project that will be coming through our

[51:43] municipality.

[51:44] This taking very intentional

[51:47] vantage point of the Underground

[51:49] Railroad and how it will cross through a

[51:52] segment of the city of Schenectady. Uh

[51:54] this was a two-phased approach, um part

[51:56] of which started and I believe Central

[51:58] New York, and the second phase is going

[52:01] to continue through uh the metropolitan

[52:03] area and carry forth through Albany,

[52:05] Schenectady, and out west to connect the

[52:08] two.

[52:09] Um

[52:09] I I have never heard of a byway before,

[52:12] um but I think if we have any

[52:13] opportunity to preserve history and

[52:15] culture, I think in a manner that just

[52:17] allows us to um further highlight just

[52:20] uh previous struggles and constantly

[52:23] that type of just legacy with Harriet

[52:25] Tubman and the Underground Railroad. I

[52:27] think it is our the requirement as

[52:29] municipality to really consider this,

[52:31] and he's very intentional in saying that

[52:33] these efforts from municipalities to

[52:35] endorse this go a very long way. So, I

[52:37] think they've already had 26

[52:39] municipalities sign on. Um there's

[52:41] nothing new, but sincerely our

[52:43] investment would help

[52:45] progress these efforts forward.

[52:47] You've heard the resolution support the

[52:49] Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad

[52:50] byway in New York State. Any question?

[52:54] Thank you. So, I spoke to the gentleman

[52:56] when he came that evening and

[52:59] steered him over to the library to

[53:01] visit Harriet and and Mr. Seward.

[53:03] He didn't know they were there. I did

[53:05] ask him about I know like um whenever

[53:07] you along the highway you see um

[53:10] Eisenhower, it's an Eisenhower highway.

[53:11] There's a lot of funding that goes out

[53:13] for it, and he said it would be the same

[53:15] opportunity here.

[53:17] Uh you know, there'd be funding and

[53:18] grants uh to help with whatever needed

[53:20] to be done. So, yes, thank you

[53:23] for bringing it forward.

[53:25] I think he said they acquired half a

[53:27] million dollars, and I don't think they

[53:28] have any other needs outside of that,

[53:30] but very much I think just having the

[53:31] support from local municipalities helps.

[53:36] Any other questions?

[53:39] Seeing none,

[53:41] do I

[53:41] have a vote Excuse me, a motion on the

[53:44] floor to support the Harriet Tubman

[53:45] Underground Railroad?

[53:49] Moved. So moved.

[53:50] It's properly said moved by Councilwoman

[53:52] Wiggins, properly seconded by Council

[53:53] President Williams. All those in favor?

[53:55] I I

[53:56] Seeing no other items on the agenda, do

[53:58] I have a motion to adjourn Government

[53:59] Operations?

[54:02] Second. All. So moved. It's moved by Councilwoman Williams, seconded

[54:06] by Councilwoman Wiggins. All those in

[54:08] favor? I. Government Operations is now

[54:10] closed at 6:04 p.m.

[54:13] I'd like to call to order Public Service

[54:15] and Utilities. Tonight we have a

[54:16] discussion

[54:17] uh from Mr. Rowan about the city's MS4

[54:20] program, Mr. Rowan.

[54:28] Thank you.

[54:29] Um

[54:30] I came to you guys last year with an I'm

[54:32] going to just want to push this button

[54:34] now.

[54:35] Sorry. Put this here. Thank you.

[54:37] Um

[54:38] So, every year I have to come before you

[54:40] and we talk about the city's MS4

[54:42] program. Um the New York State passing

[54:45] permit

[54:46] two years ago, so we're in year three of

[54:48] the new DEC general permit, which puts

[54:50] requirements on municipalities such as

[54:52] the city of Schenectady with regards to

[54:53] stormwater quality review and

[54:55] inspections. So, this is uh kind of an

[54:58] annual update to the Council, the Mayor,

[55:00] and then the city public at large.

[55:03] Um just so everybody is aware, our MS 4

[55:05] report, an annual report that's meant to

[55:07] be kept public, it is on the city

[55:09] website. It is currently on the water

[55:11] department website, but the water

[55:13] department website is probably the not

[55:16] the correct spot to be. So, I just had a

[55:18] meeting today with IT, and we're going

[55:20] to be looking to make a new stormwater

[55:22] page uh which we'll actually probably be

[55:24] able to do it this week on the

[55:25] Department of Engineering's website. So,

[55:27] we're really trying to get all the

[55:29] information that is required available

[55:31] online. We're also going to probably

[55:34] keep some of that information outside

[55:36] here at the clerk's office just so

[55:37] people are aware of illicit discharges

[55:40] and who they would call and the steps.

[55:42] Um we you know, we use the SeeClickFix

[55:45] system. We can still use that, but it's

[55:46] just getting the message out on how

[55:48] people would report spills and what

[55:51] information we have with regards to outfalls. So,

[55:55] everything's online uh on the city water

[55:57] department, and then later this week

[55:59] it's going to be moved to the Department

[56:00] of Engineering.

[56:01] Um the city did have an audit with the

[56:03] DEC on March 24th. We haven't been

[56:06] audited in several years. The DEC comes

[56:08] in person for the day, and they meet

[56:10] with city staff,

[56:12] uh and they go through our report, and

[56:14] they make comments. We have not received

[56:15] their comments yet, but I'm anticipating

[56:17] them as they're still reviewing them. Um

[56:19] and then as part of that comment period,

[56:22] they also go with us to our Bureau of

[56:24] Service, which is our main area where we

[56:27] have, you know, our our trucks and

[56:28] vehicles, and they do inspections on the

[56:30] catch basins and means and methods to

[56:33] make sure that we have all of our

[56:35] catch basins are clean, our trucks are

[56:37] not leaking, things like that, cuz it's

[56:39] all about keeping the the work areas

[56:41] clean. So, we have we have that going

[56:43] on. Um one of the things is we've had a

[56:45] lot of construction in the past couple

[56:47] of years. Right now, we're actually at a

[56:48] little bit of a wall. So, anyone that

[56:50] disturbs more than an acre has to have a

[56:53] stormwater management plan. That plan uh

[56:56] usually starts with the planning

[56:57] department. That's where, you know,

[56:59] projects start. Then engineering reviews

[57:01] those plans, and we go through the DEC,

[57:05] and we handle the permits for anything

[57:06] over an acre. Um right now, we have two

[57:10] active. The two active permits we have

[57:12] are the YWCA expansion and the Stockade

[57:15] on Washington Avenue, and we have a

[57:17] storage uh company on Watt Street, which

[57:20] we old parking lot that is at the corner

[57:23] of Watt across from um

[57:26] uh

[57:27] an industrial building that's right

[57:28] there by the bridge. So, those are the

[57:29] two active uh SWIPs that we have going

[57:32] on, and the Development Department is

[57:34] working right now with GE Vernova on an

[57:36] exciting project on campus that will not

[57:38] only require one acre, but they're

[57:40] looking to do with the Morris Turbines,

[57:41] so we're working with them on their

[57:43] multi-phase project on the GE campus.

[57:46] So, that's what's going on with regards

[57:47] to the SWIPs. Um

[57:50] Also, we are working with a consultant,

[57:53] MJ Engineering, and residents on the

[57:55] Hans Groot Kill and College Creek that

[57:57] was brought up by Union College about

[57:59] water quality

[58:00] um in the GE plot on College Creek where

[58:02] it's open. Um that project's been going

[58:04] on for a little over a year, but it's a

[58:06] very intensive project requiring a lot

[58:07] of field work. Um we've been working

[58:09] with consultants and using in-house

[58:11] staff to dye test, smoke, make sure that

[58:14] the goal is trying to find any older

[58:17] homes that may have tapped into a

[58:19] stormwater uh storm water a storm line

[58:22] instead of a sanitary line, which

[58:23] creates that cross-contamination.

[58:26] Uh the city of Schenectady is very

[58:27] fortunate that we have two separate

[58:29] systems, but a lot of municipalities in

[58:30] this uh state do not. They have a single

[58:33] system, which is one of the things that

[58:34] everyone is trying to eliminate. And

[58:36] then lastly, as part of some of our

[58:38] requirements, we will be inspecting all

[58:40] of our city outfalls. So, the city

[58:42] outfalls is is kind of what it sounds

[58:44] like. It is where

[58:45] um the stormwater meets another body of

[58:47] water. It's where it it it it comes out.

[58:50] We used to have

[58:51] over 75 outfalls, but we went through an

[58:54] audit internally working with a

[58:55] consultant, and we narrowed it down to

[58:58] essentially 35 outfalls cuz we were

[59:00] counting outfalls on the same

[59:03] stream,

[59:04] and we

[59:05] you don't need to do that. An outfall is

[59:07] at the end of the stream where you have

[59:08] it where where it daylights. Um so,

[59:10] we're working on that. And then and then

[59:12] part of this, too, is really working on

[59:14] the mapping component. I'm sure you saw

[59:16] up in the news that we're working with a

[59:18] group called Civil

[59:19] on on pavement management and software.

[59:22] Part of the Civil package is working

[59:24] with GIS

[59:25] uh and the mayor's team with Matt

[59:27] Douglass, and we are looking to um as

[59:29] part of the Civil package, uh what

[59:32] they'll be doing is not only collecting

[59:34] um data for the road conditions, but

[59:36] we're allowed two assets a year as part

[59:39] of that program. The two assets that we

[59:41] selected this year are curb ramps, which

[59:44] are required by the state for ADA

[59:45] compliance, and then we also selected

[59:47] catch basins. So, at the end of our

[59:50] civil audit, which Steve is working on

[59:53] this week, if you were ready, he's going

[59:54] [clears throat] to be driving. They're

[59:55] going to uh process all the data, and

[59:57] we're going to get geo locations of all

[59:59] the catch basins in the city, which

[1:00:01] we're then going to collocate with some

[1:00:03] of the existing information we have to

[1:00:04] try to start building a 3D map of the

[1:00:07] stormwater system, which is actually

[1:00:09] part of what they want to see. They want

[1:00:10] to see that you know

[1:00:12] uh if you pour something into a catch

[1:00:14] basin, exactly where that water is going

[1:00:16] to go, and vice versa, if we go to an

[1:00:18] outfall, and we see a white or red or

[1:00:22] some kind of a shiny liquid, that we can

[1:00:24] actually trace that back and find the

[1:00:26] source. That's part of what the program

[1:00:28] is.

[1:00:29] So, um a lot of progress that we're

[1:00:31] making. Uh also in the budget is an MS4

[1:00:33] officer. Uh that's something that I've

[1:00:35] been working with Paul on, working with

[1:00:36] civil service trying to bring someone on

[1:00:38] to handle this because there's other uh

[1:00:40] paperwork items and things working with

[1:00:43] uh one of the things we have to do is

[1:00:45] document all treatment basins, and and

[1:00:49] that that's another thing that we're

[1:00:50] hoping to do via mapping so that we know

[1:00:51] where they are. You know, there's

[1:00:52] underground units, there's private

[1:00:54] units. We really have to make sure that

[1:00:55] they are being maintained and kept in

[1:00:58] working order. Um and that's a new

[1:01:00] requirement that we're going to start

[1:01:01] working on as well.

[1:01:02] So,

[1:01:03] that is my update as uh as we're kind of

[1:01:06] like I said, and as required. If anybody

[1:01:07] has any questions, I'll be more than

[1:01:09] happy to answer them.

[1:01:10] Mr. Williams. Um

[1:01:12] thank you for that uh

[1:01:14] briefing. I think my one question is

[1:01:15] actually around the civil package. Uh I

[1:01:17] was trying to recall, Mr. Williams, I

[1:01:19] don't know if you can help me on Was

[1:01:21] there any financial considerations that

[1:01:23] came before the council for that, or not

[1:01:25] needed at this time?

[1:01:27] No. No, this the about the the civil

[1:01:29] package we paid for with our fees for

[1:01:31] service lines, and through um some of

[1:01:33] our existing codes because the platform

[1:01:36] actually crosses so many departments

[1:01:39] that we were able to use uh fee for

[1:01:40] service lines that were in budget. It

[1:01:42] was uh not uh an exorbitantly expensive

[1:01:45] program. It was

[1:01:46] Thank you.

[1:01:48] Uh Mr. Chaires. For the MS4 officer that you were saying you need, um do we

[1:01:53] have a financial a financial number that

[1:01:55] goes with that, any kind of Oh, it's in

[1:01:56] the budget. Okay. It is a position that

[1:01:58] is budgeted, but we are working with um

[1:02:02] civil service right now because what we

[1:02:03] need to do is change the job

[1:02:04] description. The position used to be a

[1:02:07] little bit of a lower level uh like an

[1:02:09] assistant engineer type position, but we

[1:02:11] really want to do is make sure that it's

[1:02:13] written that the MS4 officer is the one

[1:02:16] that is responsible for the program, and

[1:02:18] is not someone that just is responsible

[1:02:21] for the program to me. I want really to

[1:02:23] make sure that the person uh knows that

[1:02:26] this is their program, that they are

[1:02:28] They're not an an assistant. So, there's

[1:02:29] a lot of little language in there that

[1:02:31] if you've ever read a job description

[1:02:32] that says something like shall assist or

[1:02:34] shall hire, it's it's We're trying to

[1:02:36] make it so when we hire someone, we can

[1:02:38] say that

[1:02:39] this is, you know,

[1:02:41] this is this is your primary focus to

[1:02:43] make sure And we have consultants that

[1:02:44] we work with uh to help. So, we're not

[1:02:46] going to be putting somebody out there

[1:02:48] just, you know, like a babe in the

[1:02:49] woods. It's going to be something that,

[1:02:51] you know, we're we're going to give

[1:02:51] people resources to succeed.

[1:02:54] Um

[1:02:55] but I I just want to make sure that this

[1:02:56] is not a position that's solely written

[1:02:58] to be someone to help me, and then

[1:03:00] everything solely falls back to me.

[1:03:02] Mr. Thanks.

[1:03:03] Mr. Williams.

[1:03:05] What was being done before this grant

[1:03:06] came about?

[1:03:08] How was y'all conducting the data?

[1:03:11] Grant. Before before the MSG this whole

[1:03:14] thing that y'all doing, how was y'all

[1:03:16] keeping up with all of this stuff before

[1:03:17] that?

[1:03:18] >> So, we the MS4 program was always out.

[1:03:21] It was always MS4s, excuse me. No, it

[1:03:24] was always it was always something that

[1:03:26] was out there, but this new permit that

[1:03:28] came out in 2024, they'd been working on

[1:03:30] it for a decade. So, what essentially

[1:03:33] what was happening was this all the

[1:03:36] municipalities DEC In a perfect world,

[1:03:38] the DEC would be fully staffed to

[1:03:39] 100,000 people, and they'd be able to

[1:03:41] handle all these things on behalf of New

[1:03:42] York State. That's not what happened.

[1:03:44] So, what they started to do is push some

[1:03:46] of those responsibilities down on the

[1:03:48] municipalities. So, municipalities such

[1:03:50] as Schenectady became MS4s, designated,

[1:03:52] and it's our jobs to do essentially that

[1:03:55] effective rates. They passed

[1:03:56] legislation, we have to enforce

[1:03:58] legislation. With the new permit, they

[1:04:00] even pushed it even farther to say,

[1:04:03] "Okay, you approved uh for example, um

[1:04:06] we'll just use like a a Home Depot. Go

[1:04:08] to the Home Depot over on the Crosstown,

[1:04:10] and you'll go in, and they'll have like

[1:04:11] a retention basin. You'll see like a wet

[1:04:12] area, right? That retains all the

[1:04:15] stormwater from the parking lot.

[1:04:17] Under the old, it's your retention

[1:04:18] basin, you know? And now under this,

[1:04:19] it's the city has to go and inspect that

[1:04:21] retention basin to make sure it's

[1:04:23] working properly. We have to make sure

[1:04:24] that if a city uh if if the Galesi

[1:04:27] Group, they have a vortex unit, which is

[1:04:28] called it's a giant underground

[1:04:31] in the ground. We have to go and make

[1:04:32] sure that that's been inspected and get

[1:04:33] records of that. They're pushing more

[1:04:35] requirements down. So, we used to do

[1:04:37] these things specifically just centered

[1:04:38] around development of this more than an

[1:04:40] acre, but now it's even more active.

[1:04:43] It's "Okay,

[1:04:44] you did that, but now that they've moved

[1:04:46] on, now you're still responsible for it.

[1:04:48] You have to make sure that they're still

[1:04:49] responsible for it." So, it's just it's more essentially unfunded mandates

[1:04:54] on the municipalities, which is why that

[1:04:56] position is now needed is because it's

[1:04:58] going to be annual letters, it's going

[1:05:00] to be annual inspections and things to

[1:05:02] really ramp up to make sure that uh that

[1:05:04] we're there. And, you know, in the

[1:05:06] suburban areas, they have more of this

[1:05:07] because they have more new developments,

[1:05:09] they have more new treatments. We don't

[1:05:10] have a lot of these type of treatments

[1:05:12] in the city, but we do have some. And

[1:05:15] so, that's part of the mapping is going

[1:05:16] to be to make sure we map where they

[1:05:17] are, and then come up with a a a

[1:05:20] strategy of how we're going to document

[1:05:22] that the people are cleaning them, and

[1:05:23] then they're in in working order. And

[1:05:25] then we have to do that as per the

[1:05:26] report. And that section of the report

[1:05:28] it says

[1:05:29] uh if you were to look through it

[1:05:30] online,

[1:05:32] it has all these first-year mandates,

[1:05:34] second-year mandates, third, fourth,

[1:05:35] fifth years, and and how you build your

[1:05:37] program. So, by the fifth year, you

[1:05:38] should have it all built out.

[1:05:41] Thanks, Mr. Williams. Questions, Mr.

[1:05:43] Williams? Yeah. Um you mentioned uh

[1:05:45] paying uh all through the fees for

[1:05:46] service. How much are you paying on

[1:05:48] civil on civil things to do this pothole

[1:05:50] program? The civil pothole program? It's

[1:05:53] uh approximately $20,000. $20,000. So,

[1:05:56] you mentioned uh

[1:05:57] it's a pothole project, but they're

[1:06:00] focusing on uh curb

[1:06:02] and the What is it? Drainage? The man No.

[1:06:06] Okay. So, I'll I'll give you a You want

[1:06:08] to talk about civil for this one second?

[1:06:10] Okay. So, what civil is is civil is a

[1:06:15] essentially it's Google Street View for,

[1:06:16] you know, layman's terms. It's it's a

[1:06:18] Google Street View device with a lidar

[1:06:20] component, and lidar means uh it's

[1:06:22] essentially a survey device. So, um

[1:06:26] 5 years ago, 10 years ago, a surveyor

[1:06:28] would hold the device and have a laser

[1:06:30] and would shoot a point. All right? So,

[1:06:31] the point was from here to that point,

[1:06:33] and you would know the coordinates of

[1:06:34] that point. A lidar unit uses GI GPS,

[1:06:38] and it always knows where that component

[1:06:40] is because it's using satellites, all

[1:06:41] right? And then the component on top of

[1:06:43] the car, it spins.

[1:06:45] And as [clears throat] it spins, it's

[1:06:47] shooting out these lasers in a pattern,

[1:06:49] a huge pattern. So, as it's driving,

[1:06:52] it's actually sending out millions of

[1:06:54] points all around, and it's mapping the

[1:06:56] city.

[1:06:57] So,

[1:06:58] we're going to drive all 171 miles of

[1:07:00] the city, and we're going to take

[1:07:01] photographs, and those photographs are

[1:07:03] going to be with them with the laser

[1:07:04] group, all right? And we're going to get

[1:07:06] that back. Now, civil's main bread and

[1:07:08] butter component is that they focus on

[1:07:11] the ground. The data on the ground

[1:07:13] correlates with the cameras, and it uses

[1:07:16] AI to say, "That road looks like it has

[1:07:18] cracks. That data that is there looks

[1:07:21] like Yes, this is cracks. I can see a

[1:07:22] pothole is deeper than a normal." And it

[1:07:25] uses that, and it actually will make a

[1:07:27] color chart on the roadways of um

[1:07:30] distress. So, you'll be able to see the

[1:07:32] distress of the roadways. So, that is

[1:07:35] civil's bread and butter product. That

[1:07:37] is the base product. But, as a company

[1:07:40] that's also trying to make money, they

[1:07:41] came out and said, "Well, if we're

[1:07:43] shooting every point in the city, what

[1:07:46] else can we sell municipalities?" So, as

[1:07:49] part of that, they also allow you as a

[1:07:51] base package, and we're just getting the

[1:07:52] base package here, they allow you two

[1:07:55] assets a year.

[1:07:57] So, we have assets. An asset could be a

[1:07:58] fire hydrant, a sign, a tree, a manhole,

[1:08:02] a water valve, a curb. So, they have a

[1:08:04] whole list. It looks like a menu of

[1:08:06] anything that you can see that you can

[1:08:07] shoot with these lasers.

[1:08:09] Um so, we decided, like I talked about

[1:08:11] earlier, that really for

[1:08:14] criticalness right now is ADA because

[1:08:17] the CHIPS program relies on ADA. We have

[1:08:19] to update ramps and keep a collection of

[1:08:20] them. That's part of the principle. That

[1:08:22] changed about 10 years ago, if y'all

[1:08:23] remember. Our paving dollars don't go as

[1:08:25] far anymore because now we have to do

[1:08:27] ramps. 10 years ago, we didn't have to

[1:08:29] do ramps, so our paving dollars went

[1:08:30] farther.

[1:08:31] And then, it was the catch basins. The

[1:08:33] catch basins just so that we have our

[1:08:35] map so that we can put that as a check

[1:08:37] mark towards the MS4 program. Next year,

[1:08:41] with those two baseline checks, we're

[1:08:42] looking to do um right now, I think

[1:08:45] we're looking to do fire hydrants

[1:08:47] and street signs.

[1:08:49] So, then that will have uh an idea of

[1:08:51] where all the fire hydrants are in the

[1:08:52] city, and then our condition of the

[1:08:54] street signs so we can do that. And

[1:08:55] everything then goes onto a map. And

[1:08:57] that's where we're talking. We're

[1:08:58] working then with another consultant

[1:09:00] who's trying to build out our GIS

[1:09:01] platform, and we're going to have

[1:09:02] hopefully a public-facing one that the

[1:09:04] public can see, and a work-site one that

[1:09:07] city employees can see to use for their

[1:09:09] daily work.

[1:09:11] Um and that's kind of what civil is

[1:09:13] doing. Um

[1:09:14] I'm very excited about it because right

[1:09:16] now, the older way to do it, which we

[1:09:18] used to do for pavement assessment, was

[1:09:20] every 2 years, 3 years, someone would

[1:09:22] drive the city, and you would we would

[1:09:25] hire them, and they would look, and they

[1:09:26] would say, "We think this road is a

[1:09:27] condition A." It's a zero to 10 system.

[1:09:29] It's not really rocket science, but

[1:09:31] that's a That's how the system would

[1:09:33] work. And then you get graded on and we

[1:09:34] get a map and that's what we used to do.

[1:09:36] This system is going to be much more

[1:09:37] advanced than that. Also, we're allowed

[1:09:39] to drive the city as many times as we

[1:09:41] want. Now,

[1:09:43] you don't really need to drive it that

[1:09:45] much. So, what we're going to be doing

[1:09:46] is we're working with them and we're

[1:09:48] driving it now

[1:09:50] pre-paving. And we're going to get our

[1:09:51] baseline condition pre-paving. Then

[1:09:54] we're going to pave our roads with what

[1:09:55] we're talking about next. And then after

[1:09:57] we pave our roads in November before the

[1:09:59] snow comes, we're going to scan it again

[1:10:01] and we're going to use that information

[1:10:03] to pull together where our program is.

[1:10:05] And then we're going to work with Mike

[1:10:06] Serone, Chris Lunn, and OGS and we're

[1:10:09] going to track where potholes are being

[1:10:11] filled. We're going to plug that data

[1:10:13] into the AI and then we're going to use

[1:10:15] that to hopefully be able to [music]

[1:10:17] predict where the next roads are going

[1:10:19] to be that fail because we're using AI

[1:10:21] generated software.

[1:10:23] So,

[1:10:24] that's what I know now and I haven't

[1:10:26] even used the program yet. So, come to

[1:10:29] me in a year and I'll probably know a

[1:10:30] lot more. We're going to be working with

[1:10:32] them for a couple of years to really

[1:10:33] build this out.

[1:10:34] But, it's going to be a lot more

[1:10:36] transparent. You're going to be able to

[1:10:37] have a lot more information available.

[1:10:40] But, this this uh this

[1:10:41] So, this um

[1:10:43] this project will not include potholes

[1:10:45] this year

[1:10:47] and next year. This will what?

[1:10:48] >> This will not include include potholes

[1:10:50] this year. Well, never Oh, go ahead.

[1:10:52] Potholes is is a wrong Yeah, that's the whole concept.

[1:10:56] >> a pavement management system. With the

[1:10:59] whole idea is to prevent potholes. Okay.

[1:11:02] So, they should be better identifying

[1:11:04] where the pavement's going to fail

[1:11:07] and staying ahead of it in terms of the

[1:11:08] paving program or other than that

[1:11:10] maintenance techniques we can use. You mentioned base level. That's what

[1:11:14] we're paying $20,000. What what what's

[1:11:16] the cost for the next level

[1:11:18] if we can expand this project? Oh, so

[1:11:20] the base level means that you get all

[1:11:22] the data and then the two assets. So, as

[1:11:25] you go up you can buy 10 assets, but

[1:11:27] they charge you somewhere around $2,000

[1:11:30] somewhere more an asset. But, we didn't

[1:11:32] need the assets at this point. We really

[1:11:34] just want the paving data, which is

[1:11:35] included in the base. So, it's They're

[1:11:37] like add-ons. And you know, the other you know, powerful feature

[1:11:41] this has is you know, it it uses a query

[1:11:43] tool. So, you can put in there that you

[1:11:45] know, I want every road that shows this

[1:11:48] much percent of alligator cracking

[1:11:50] highlighted with a list and you can run

[1:11:52] reports and it'll actually give you

[1:11:54] written reports using uh the database so

[1:11:58] that we can see. Um I know it's I I I'm

[1:12:00] very excited to use it. Um but, I I I

[1:12:04] don't have it yet. I I don't think this

[1:12:06] is something that anybody should think

[1:12:07] is um you know, a waste of any type of money. I think

[1:12:11] this is one of the most exciting

[1:12:13] projects and programs I'm going to use

[1:12:14] and I think it's really going to help me

[1:12:17] because when people ask, "How did you

[1:12:18] select the road?" We're using our data

[1:12:20] at hand now and Mike Serone and people

[1:12:22] in the field. But, this is going to give

[1:12:24] us analytical software. We're going to

[1:12:26] be able to tell how we're doing on our

[1:12:27] roads and how our programs are going and we're going to be able to keep

[1:12:30] histories of what we're doing easier

[1:12:32] than we do now. I think it's going to be

[1:12:34] fantastic for everybody. Yeah.

[1:12:36] We would have spent more in past years

[1:12:39] sending somebody out of payroll dollars

[1:12:41] to do the evaluation, put a numeric

[1:12:43] value on it, have to key it in, and then

[1:12:46] do a less sophisticated analysis than

[1:12:49] what this is going to provide us.

[1:12:51] >> 100%. No, there's a reason why I asked if you go

[1:12:54] to the next level, you know, keep adding

[1:12:56] on as you as you as you go through the

[1:12:59] program in this year and if you want to

[1:13:01] expand, you should

[1:13:03] you know, if it's beneficial keep

[1:13:04] expanding. It gets going to sort of the the true purpose of helping us with

[1:13:09] managing our our streets.

[1:13:11] Yeah, I mean um

[1:13:13] I American can attest to one with the

[1:13:15] police department and GIS. We you know,

[1:13:18] the department of engineering has not

[1:13:19] scratched the surface of what we can do

[1:13:21] with GIS and the more we can, the better

[1:13:23] it's going to help everyone. Um and this

[1:13:25] is our really our our jump into the GIS

[1:13:28] uh for A. So, hopefully you know, we're

[1:13:29] lucky to have Matt here uh now at city

[1:13:31] hall because he's really an expert at

[1:13:33] it. Um so, I'm I'm looking forward to

[1:13:35] it.

[1:13:37] It's really good.

[1:13:38] Um Mr. Waller, could you help me

[1:13:39] understand why in November we paved the

[1:13:42] roads and we got to go through winter

[1:13:44] with the salt and uh and um plowing and

[1:13:48] all of that and then comes spring and um

[1:13:52] come the spring times, we have back to

[1:13:55] the potholes. I mean, I don't understand

[1:13:57] that. Could you help me understand that?

[1:13:59] So, we don't we we have a set route.

[1:14:02] Usually we pave try to do it by November

[1:14:03] 15th. So, the paving season usually is

[1:14:06] April 15th to November 15th and we track

[1:14:09] what we're doing. So, right now we have

[1:14:10] a very rudimentary GIS database that you

[1:14:13] can go on. If you go on the department

[1:14:15] of engineering website, you can see

[1:14:16] everywhere that we've paved in the last

[1:14:18] 15 years. We don't pave a road twice

[1:14:21] within a year. We actually because of

[1:14:22] bond law and everything,

[1:14:24] um it's every 10 years you're only

[1:14:25] allowed to pave a road every 10 years.

[1:14:27] So, we really have to try to stretch it

[1:14:29] because if you're going to use capital

[1:14:30] uh borrowed money, that's that's the

[1:14:32] rule for it. It goes the same with

[1:14:33] federal aid projects. So, we really have

[1:14:35] to track it so that we can see where

[1:14:37] we're going. But, the potholes usually

[1:14:40] 99% of the time we're not paving a road

[1:14:42] and then filling potholes on that same

[1:14:44] road in that period. And the asphalt is

[1:14:47] not susceptible to salt. We do have

[1:14:50] issues with sometimes with concrete

[1:14:52] where we put down a concrete sidewalk or

[1:14:53] a ramp and then that property owner

[1:14:55] would salt it and we have an issue with

[1:14:57] that. But, have you seen areas where

[1:14:59] we've paved a road and then it's been

[1:15:01] Yes. Yes. Well, if you would let me know

[1:15:04] those areas, we keep 10% 5% of these

[1:15:08] projects for retainage to fix areas like

[1:15:11] that. Um so, we're holding that for last

[1:15:13] year's program. So, if anyone ever has

[1:15:15] areas that you think the you know, the

[1:15:17] workmanship hasn't held up like it

[1:15:19] should be, that's why we hold that 5%.

[1:15:21] And 5% might not sound like a lot of

[1:15:23] money. It's a multi-million dollar

[1:15:24] project. So, the number is usually

[1:15:26] around a quarter of a million dollars

[1:15:28] that we hold for up to a year to make

[1:15:30] sure that their work uh meets it. We did

[1:15:32] have uh some issues in some of those

[1:15:34] spots with like crack seal uh and we're

[1:15:36] working with that company now. They're

[1:15:37] coming back in the spring to fix that.

[1:15:39] Crack seal is kind of a finicky. So, uh

[1:15:42] usually asphalt we don't have that

[1:15:43] issue. Uh the other problem that we do

[1:15:45] have with asphalt just so everyone's

[1:15:46] aware is

[1:15:48] to try to keep up for the demands of the

[1:15:50] city, we are no longer doing full

[1:15:53] reconstruction.

[1:15:54] So, a full reconstruction would mean you

[1:15:56] go down 6 in.

[1:15:57] You hit the base. You make sure We're

[1:15:59] doing a lot of 2-in mill, 2-in

[1:16:01] replacement and the rule of thumb is for

[1:16:03] every inch you put on top, it's a year

[1:16:06] for the cracks to mitigate through. So,

[1:16:08] that's why the crack sealing program is

[1:16:10] important is that we really want to get

[1:16:12] a good wearing surface and then once the

[1:16:14] cracks come in, we want to address the

[1:16:15] cracks.

[1:16:16] Um

[1:16:17] So, I don't know if that answered your

[1:16:18] question. If you ever find something

[1:16:19] that we paved and then it started to

[1:16:21] deteriorate, please let me know.

[1:16:24] Anyone else? Any other questions?

[1:16:27] Oh. Oh.

[1:16:28] Uh thank you, Mr. Waller.

[1:16:30] Very

[1:16:32] informative this evening.

[1:16:34] Um I see a lot of people when they're

[1:16:35] pushing their knees down the catch

[1:16:37] basins. I usually stop and yell at them.

[1:16:40] Uh uh just because I'm I'm putting them

[1:16:42] out here in the city and then there's

[1:16:43] the backup

[1:16:44] >> Keeping them clean is is very important

[1:16:45] as well. Right.

[1:16:47] Um

[1:16:48] seeing no other questions, uh

[1:16:51] I'd like to close out

[1:16:53] public service and utilities. So

[1:16:56] Second.

[1:16:57] All in favor? Aye. Thank you.

[1:16:59] So, I'd like to call to order

[1:17:00] city development and planning. We have

[1:17:02] eight items for discussion tonight.

[1:17:03] First of which is the award bid contract

[1:17:06] for the Jay Street connector to Carver

[1:17:07] Construction Inc. in the total amount of

[1:17:09] $3,874,174.

[1:17:13] Mr. Waller. Thank you.

[1:17:15] Um this is a long time coming project,

[1:17:17] probably one of the most exciting

[1:17:18] projects uh in a long time in downtown.

[1:17:21] Um it was the um cornerstone of the

[1:17:24] city's DRI announcement years ago.

[1:17:26] Um if you were there at the the big

[1:17:28] black box when uh Governor Cuomo's sign

[1:17:30] was there,

[1:17:31] um this is to connect essentially city

[1:17:33] hall and Little Italy to the Mohawk

[1:17:35] Harbor area

[1:17:36] uh on a new Jay Street connector. Um the

[1:17:39] connector will run between the car wash

[1:17:41] and the Union College athletic fields

[1:17:43] and college campus.

[1:17:45] Um we have our agreements with Union

[1:17:47] College. We um have our environmental

[1:17:50] done with the DEC and then we bid the

[1:17:52] project. We did the seeker if you

[1:17:54] recall. Mhm. So, we put it out. Uh we

[1:17:57] had I think four bids. The bids were

[1:17:59] varied um but, we did get a low bid

[1:18:02] within the estimate from Carver at $3.8

[1:18:04] million.

[1:18:05] I will pass this out. I

[1:18:08] meant to include, but it was not but I

[1:18:11] did not want the paperwork to go.

[1:18:13] Um this is a bid analysis and

[1:18:16] recommendation. I will forward it to the

[1:18:18] clerk's office for inclusion in the next

[1:18:22] packet just to make sure it's available

[1:18:23] publicly. But, what this is is it's the

[1:18:26] just a recommendation that states that

[1:18:28] they they went through the bid and the

[1:18:30] items were um

[1:18:32] were within line. The big uh variance if

[1:18:35] you were to look was the environmental.

[1:18:38] Um we worked with and Metroplex and the

[1:18:41] DEC on this site. But, a couple of firms

[1:18:46] they had been

[1:18:47] in questions about the environmental so

[1:18:49] they put some big numbers there to cover

[1:18:50] themselves, whereas Carver we've done a

[1:18:52] lot of work with the city and Metroplex.

[1:18:55] We believe they put in a more

[1:18:58] um

[1:18:59] streamlined bid understanding that we

[1:19:01] have taken care of the environmental

[1:19:03] risks associated with the project. Um

[1:19:05] [snorts] so, this is it. We're looking

[1:19:07] to start as soon as possible. We're

[1:19:08] hoping this project can get done by

[1:19:09] November because it is a very unique

[1:19:12] project where essentially it is a

[1:19:13] sandbox. They will be not working in

[1:19:16] traffic for 80% of the project. They

[1:19:19] will As you know, the road is closed so

[1:19:21] that they can work and build most of the

[1:19:23] roadway um without any interference from

[1:19:26] the public. And then the last 20% of the

[1:19:28] roadway um will be only affecting Union

[1:19:31] College and the car wash, and we have

[1:19:33] plans to then communicate that to all.

[1:19:35] So, we're hoping for a quick turnaround

[1:19:36] on this.

[1:19:38] Thank you. Questions or comments?

[1:19:40] Mr. Whalen. Thank you.

[1:19:42] Excuse me, thank you. Um as far as did

[1:19:44] Is it decided that the walking part of

[1:19:48] um

[1:19:48] Roger Hull Place would now be closed

[1:19:50] off? Is that part of this?

[1:19:53] So, part of the real estate uh

[1:19:55] transaction was that Union College would

[1:19:57] be transferred that property. However,

[1:19:59] Union College has not shown or proposed

[1:20:02] anything that closes that road at this

[1:20:03] time. It's not to say that they cannot

[1:20:05] in the future, but at this time they

[1:20:07] have not. So, it it's not a when this

[1:20:10] opens, that road closes. You know, they

[1:20:13] have a new president on board. They're

[1:20:14] going through, and I haven't heard

[1:20:15] anything about them officially closing

[1:20:17] Roger Hull at this time. Have you? Have

[1:20:18] you?

[1:20:19] No. Thank you.

[1:20:22] Any other questions? Mr. Whalen. Mr.

[1:20:23] Whalen, um this bid came in 6.5% below

[1:20:27] the engineer's estimate.

[1:20:29] Is that a concern? No.

[1:20:33] I I have I don't have any concerns with

[1:20:34] it. Um one of the reasons being is that

[1:20:37] when they do

[1:20:38] We have a couple of projects that

[1:20:39] usually go like this. Usually

[1:20:42] our numbers are usually 10% lower than

[1:20:45] the engineer's estimate. The reason

[1:20:46] being is engineer's estimates are based

[1:20:49] off of the New York State contract

[1:20:51] averages.

[1:20:53] Um that's how engineers at this level

[1:20:55] will estimate projects. So, that average

[1:20:59] is an actual statewide average. So, it's

[1:21:01] not only the Albany area, but it's

[1:21:02] Dutchess County, Orange County, Buffalo.

[1:21:04] And the prices tend to be a little

[1:21:06] inflated. Um so, that's where we have to

[1:21:09] kind of put in We had a project not

[1:21:11] similar to this in size, but it was a

[1:21:12] drainage project over on the north side

[1:21:15] of the city, Wyoming Lancaster. And the

[1:21:17] estimate came in at $800,000. And I said

[1:21:20] it's a $500,000 project. And they said,

[1:21:22] "Well, our number says $800,000." I

[1:21:24] said, "Well, your numbers are not

[1:21:25] correct. It's a $500,000 project." We

[1:21:27] went out to bid, it came in at $475,000.

[1:21:29] But it's just it's just

[1:21:32] DOT numbers are high. Over the last

[1:21:34] couple of years, how do you see your the

[1:21:36] change orders

[1:21:38] over the last couple of years? Okay.

[1:21:40] Have you seen a lot of change orders

[1:21:42] being requested or it's

[1:21:43] >> No. I mean, change orders are solely by

[1:21:45] would be solely by myself or or you

[1:21:48] know, if there's something were to come

[1:21:49] up. We don't do a ton of change orders

[1:21:50] on the paving program. Um a program like

[1:21:53] this um

[1:21:56] change orders would be usually only for

[1:21:58] something if you encounter in the ground

[1:22:00] that was unforeseen.

[1:22:02] But this project scope is pretty narrow

[1:22:04] and and tight. There's not really much

[1:22:06] that you can actually change. So, it

[1:22:08] would have to be something that was

[1:22:09] unforeseen.

[1:22:11] Okay. Thank you.

[1:22:13] Hearing no other questions or comments,

[1:22:14] is there a motion? So moved. Second.

[1:22:16] All those in favor? Aye.

[1:22:18] The next item is the award bidding

[1:22:20] contract for the crack sealing of city

[1:22:22] streets through

[1:22:23] 2026 to City Mark Striping LLC in the

[1:22:27] amount of $183,750.

[1:22:30] Mr. Whalen.

[1:22:31] Uh this is our annual maintenance crack

[1:22:33] sealing program. Um

[1:22:34] we do this every year. It's the first

[1:22:36] line of defense against roadway

[1:22:38] deterioration.

[1:22:39] Um the list

[1:22:40] uh we had several people come out. The winning low bid was the group that

[1:22:45] we used last year, uh City Mark. We had

[1:22:47] no issues with City Mark uh

[1:22:50] on the project, and we have no reason

[1:22:52] not to recommend them.

[1:22:54] Thank you. Any questions or comments?

[1:22:55] Mr. Whalen.

[1:22:56] >> you mentioned we have used them before

[1:22:57] in the year last year. No. Was it Was it

[1:22:59] the first year that you used them last

[1:23:01] year? Last year was the first year we

[1:23:02] used this group. Okay. Um yes.

[1:23:05] Thank you.

[1:23:07] Hearing no other questions or comments,

[1:23:08] may I have a motion? So moved. Second.

[1:23:10] All those in favor? Aye.

[1:23:13] The next item is the award bidding

[1:23:14] contract for the 2026 City Chip Paving

[1:23:17] Program to Callanan Industries Inc. in

[1:23:19] the amount of $3,146,809.90.

[1:23:24] Mr. Whalen. Okay. This is our annual

[1:23:26] chip paving program. This program is

[1:23:28] solely paid through the Consolidated

[1:23:30] Highway Improvement Program. That's what

[1:23:32] the CHIPS acronym is.

[1:23:34] Um

[1:23:35] I wanted to award this last week.

[1:23:36] Typically, we have this awarded, but it

[1:23:38] is uh dependent on the state budget. Uh

[1:23:41] I did speak with um the mayor we're

[1:23:43] moving forward with just to talk about

[1:23:45] We want to move this forward. Uh this is

[1:23:47] not a signing of a contract, but we

[1:23:49] really need to get The bid came in 30

[1:23:51] days ago. We want to have this on the

[1:23:55] in in process because we're already a

[1:23:57] little bit behind. Like I said, we like

[1:23:59] to usually pave from April 15th to

[1:24:01] November. And um I'm hoping that the

[1:24:03] state budget gets passed uh as soon as

[1:24:05] possible because this is relying on

[1:24:08] state funding. From all uh the DOT

[1:24:10] sources that I have talked with, they

[1:24:12] have not heard about any cuts. This

[1:24:14] funding amount This does not anticipate

[1:24:16] any increases. This is if everything

[1:24:18] stayed at its current level.

[1:24:20] Thank you. Um would that be a more

[1:24:22] appropriate question for finance just

[1:24:23] any stipulations with us doing that

[1:24:25] ahead of the budget? I know you said

[1:24:26] that there are no impeding changes. Um

[1:24:30] it seems as though we're hedging

[1:24:31] >> [clears throat]

[1:24:31] >> God forbid something happen.

[1:24:36] Hopefully, you'll move it ahead tonight.

[1:24:39] Get approval a week from tonight.

[1:24:42] Uh that's still subject to the final

[1:24:46] adoption of the state budget. So,

[1:24:48] they keep saying all the way who knows

[1:24:51] adopted. They've been doing extenders.

[1:24:53] Uh but this doesn't seem to be any point

[1:24:56] of contention. So,

[1:24:58] comfortable moving ahead with these

[1:24:59] numbers.

[1:25:01] And

[1:25:04] I just asked the council at this point

[1:25:05] to support it.

[1:25:07] Um Mr. President, you Uh Mr. Whalen,

[1:25:09] you're concerned about You want to award

[1:25:11] this because then you want these prices

[1:25:13] locked in at this rate at this point

[1:25:15] because it was put out to bid

[1:25:17] and open for over a month now. Correct.

[1:25:20] And I did speak with our purchasing

[1:25:22] director. It is possible that I could

[1:25:24] get a letter asking them to hold their

[1:25:26] pricing, which most likely they will

[1:25:27] because they want to work with the city.

[1:25:29] Um

[1:25:30] However, it also sets us back um with

[1:25:32] time, which I'm really not I'm I'm

[1:25:34] trying to buy any week we can to move

[1:25:36] forward.

[1:25:38] Thank you. Any other questions or

[1:25:40] comments?

[1:25:41] I'll move this. Second. Second. All

[1:25:43] those in favor? Aye.

[1:25:45] And last item for the Mr. Whalen, award

[1:25:48] bidding contract for the city police

[1:25:49] department generator replacement to S.W.

[1:25:52] Burke Electric LLC in the amount of

[1:25:55] $339,000.

[1:25:58] Thank you. Um as stated, our our police

[1:26:00] department has

[1:26:02] two generators, uh one functioning, one

[1:26:05] uh original to the building that is in

[1:26:07] place. They're both located in the

[1:26:09] basement. Um the generators uh require

[1:26:12] diesel fuel. The diesel fuel is in an

[1:26:14] underground tank outside of the building

[1:26:16] in the sidewalk. The tank has been uh

[1:26:20] flagged by the DEC for being removed. Um

[1:26:24] so, we are complying with that, and

[1:26:25] we're working on a removal program right

[1:26:27] now. We actually bid it, but the bids

[1:26:29] were um higher than what we would like.

[1:26:31] We only got one. We want to see uh if we

[1:26:34] can, you know, clarify that and get it

[1:26:36] out. We've been working with the DEC on

[1:26:37] this project. Um so, what we want to do

[1:26:40] is this is a multi-phase approach. What

[1:26:42] I've been going on is that the police

[1:26:45] department, you're going to be seeing me

[1:26:46] come in with a lot of requests over the

[1:26:47] next two capital seasons for

[1:26:50] improvements to the police department,

[1:26:51] which is still very much original to its

[1:26:53] 1970s mechanicals. Um these generators

[1:26:56] are taking up valuable space inside the

[1:26:58] building. Uh I would like to utilize

[1:27:01] that space to replace the old electrical

[1:27:03] switch gear. So, what we're going to do

[1:27:05] is award install a new generator that is

[1:27:08] located outside of the building within

[1:27:10] an above-ground fuel cell, nothing in

[1:27:12] the ground. Um once this situation is

[1:27:15] installed and active, we're going to

[1:27:16] remove all the old generators, and then

[1:27:19] we're going to come in with an

[1:27:20] electrical

[1:27:21] uh capital request for next year to put

[1:27:24] in a new electrical system, and that way

[1:27:27] we can abandon the old electrical

[1:27:29] system, which is outdated. After the new

[1:27:31] electrical system is in place, then

[1:27:32] we're going to look to do some HVAC.

[1:27:35] But this is essentially the first domino

[1:27:38] that's going to fall inside the building

[1:27:40] to make room for the rest.

[1:27:42] Um and uh these generators are

[1:27:45] prepackaged units. We've been having a

[1:27:47] lot of success with them. Uh they'll be

[1:27:48] located outside uh the admin building

[1:27:51] near the children's garden with a little

[1:27:52] fenced enclosure.

[1:27:55] Mr. Whalen. Yes, thank you. Mr. Whalen,

[1:27:57] where is this funding coming from under

[1:27:59] the capital the 2026 capital um

[1:28:02] budget? Okay. Uh this funding is coming

[1:28:05] through a capital code called police uh

[1:28:08] HVAC and mechanical improvements.

[1:28:12] It it this is not a 2026. It's not a

[1:28:14] 2026.

[1:28:16] >> No. The 2026 actually, you haven't seen

[1:28:19] any 2026 yet because I don't know if

[1:28:21] we've actually solved and are ready to

[1:28:23] move forward on. We have Right.

[1:28:25] This is This is old capital. So, this

[1:28:27] was budgeted under the 2025 2025 or

[1:28:31] earlier, yeah. This is These are

[1:28:32] projects that I'm trying to clean up.

[1:28:34] >> Okay. Yes. Thank you for clarifying. I

[1:28:36] thought it was a 2026, but it's not in

[1:28:38] here. I I have not even started on 2026

[1:28:40] yet. Okay. Thank you for that. Thank

[1:28:42] you. Any questions or comments? Mr.

[1:28:44] Chairs. Um so, this being the the lowest

[1:28:46] budget you received on April 1st, what

[1:28:48] were some of the hang-ups that you

[1:28:49] received from people that were proposing

[1:28:51] budget? Was it working with the DEC in

[1:28:52] compliance with the diesel from for the

[1:28:54] generator? What was the issues that you

[1:28:55] were seeing while we waited so long to

[1:28:57] get someone to give you that? Cuz you

[1:28:59] said the numbers that you were receiving

[1:29:00] Oh, oh, you're talking about for the

[1:29:01] tank?

[1:29:01] >> Yeah, yeah. For the tank removal, we

[1:29:03] only got one bid. Okay. And we think it

[1:29:05] was because um we weren't fast enough

[1:29:07] with responding to questions about the

[1:29:09] bid excavation. So, what we're doing is

[1:29:11] we're putting all the questions that we

[1:29:13] were asked about the removals into the

[1:29:15] base bid, and we're putting it back out,

[1:29:17] and we're going to act Usually, we don't

[1:29:18] actively solicit to companies. Um we try

[1:29:21] not to We use Empire Bidnet and and

[1:29:23] other programs, but in this case, um to

[1:29:26] have a number come in that was above our

[1:29:29] estimate, and it only be one bid, it's

[1:29:31] very hard to recommend to the council

[1:29:33] something like that. So, we want to try

[1:29:34] again.

[1:29:35] Thank you.

[1:29:36] Any other questions or comments? Hearing

[1:29:38] none, may we have a motion? So Second.

[1:29:40] All those in favor? Aye. Thank

[1:29:42] you.

[1:29:44] The next item will be a discussion of

[1:29:46] the city code chapter 161-21,

[1:29:49] public collection and disposal of solid

[1:29:51] waste, next steps in the bulk sticker

[1:29:53] trash program.

[1:29:55] Um if you can all recall, we've been

[1:29:56] making a good headway in these

[1:29:58] conversations. Uh this meeting we will

[1:30:01] be having a update from Mr. Lunn I think

[1:30:04] with regards to restructure and next

[1:30:07] steps moving forward.

[1:30:15] Thank you, Mr. President. Um

[1:30:18] uh I took this one short notice, so

[1:30:20] forgive me. Uh Paul wasn't able to attend. Um we are

[1:30:24] coming up with some numbers that uh

[1:30:26] hopefully will be favorable to the

[1:30:28] council to make a decision on uh two-tier system of garbage. Uh you know, recommendations coming from

[1:30:37] the uh garbage uh we're going to say a

[1:30:39] 45-gallon can is uh acceptable. Um we we

[1:30:43] like the two bulk items once a month uh

[1:30:46] per household.

[1:30:48] Uh the second tier uh looking at, you

[1:30:51] know, a

[1:30:52] uh possible take all on on the second

[1:30:55] tier. Um and see what fits the best. Uh

[1:31:00] we also got to think and remember that

[1:31:02] when we implement the two-tier system,

[1:31:05] that we have to look at what our finance

[1:31:07] department is capable of and our

[1:31:09] taxation department with the uh

[1:31:12] we're currently

[1:31:14] uh only able to take one tax bill in at a time at a certain rate. When we

[1:31:20] change that rate per property,

[1:31:23] um we may have to look at getting a

[1:31:25] uh separate software system for OGS to

[1:31:28] implement that. Uh there's a RPS uh

[1:31:32] delay from the county that that pretty

[1:31:35] much lags us about 3 months.

[1:31:38] Um

[1:31:39] with the sale of a property, which would

[1:31:41] cause a problem if somebody didn't want

[1:31:44] the second tier moved into that and was

[1:31:47] getting taxed for it. So, um we're there

[1:31:50] is a few hurdles to look at, and uh you

[1:31:52] know,

[1:31:53] time

[1:31:55] timetables of when we can implement

[1:31:57] these systems.

[1:31:58] Um but I I think the the beginning is

[1:32:02] quantifying garbage and uh you know,

[1:32:04] starting at the beginning of

[1:32:06] uh what the expectations are from the

[1:32:08] council uh and the mayor of uh

[1:32:12] you know, how much garbage that

[1:32:14] we are allowed to create and and throw

[1:32:17] out. Uh and then the second tier. Uh

[1:32:20] looking at pre-numbers now, you know,

[1:32:22] we're at an eight-digit operation,

[1:32:26] uh currently looking at

[1:32:28] uh downfalls, you know, possible

[1:32:30] shortfalls in the five-digit numbers uh

[1:32:32] you know, all we're looking at today.

[1:32:35] Um you know, that could go up, you know,

[1:32:38] if things don't change

[1:32:40] um

[1:32:41] ba- based on what we see, you know, from

[1:32:44] the data.

[1:32:45] Um and I'd be happy to answer anybody's

[1:32:48] questions that that you have.

[1:32:51] Uh thank you, Mr. Lunn, for being

[1:32:52] present. I'm definitely to be very

[1:32:54] honest, disappointed we don't have any

[1:32:55] numbers in front of us. I think at this

[1:32:57] stage very much expecting to have those

[1:32:59] to consider. I can very much understand

[1:33:02] um that we are compiling a lot, um but I

[1:33:05] think we we just need to make sure we

[1:33:07] have all the information in front of us

[1:33:08] to make the best informed decisions

[1:33:10] moving forward. Um with that being said,

[1:33:13] I would you mind taking the first

[1:33:15] question? Um just speaking to your just

[1:33:18] confidence in the two-tier system. I

[1:33:19] know you've said but let's make sure we

[1:33:22] have clear tangibles. Do you feel

[1:33:24] confident that the two-tier program or

[1:33:26] two-tier approach will work for the

[1:33:28] city? I I I 100% back a two-tier system.

[1:33:31] I believe it's the fairest way to go. Um

[1:33:35] it it does uh

[1:33:37] you know, there's there's pros and and

[1:33:39] cons to everything we do.

[1:33:41] Uh the system we now have uh is

[1:33:45] the easiest to enforce. Once we go to a

[1:33:47] two-tier system, we're going to have to

[1:33:48] look at using technologies, AI

[1:33:50] technologies of which property um you

[1:33:53] know, has uh

[1:33:55] the second tier and giving us the best

[1:33:58] efficiency. Um you know, in trying to

[1:34:01] keep it keep the uh

[1:34:04] sanitation department as efficient as

[1:34:06] possible. Uh it also uh promotes uh you

[1:34:10] know, doing a two-tier system like this

[1:34:11] promotes recycling, which we can't

[1:34:14] predict you know, maybe I would say uh

[1:34:16] half of the households that currently

[1:34:18] recycle in the city. Um we're going to

[1:34:20] see that increase because they don't

[1:34:23] want to buy a second can or, you know,

[1:34:26] make that that larger investment. With

[1:34:28] that, the

[1:34:30] uh recycling costs the city uh I believe

[1:34:33] $76 a ton versus $58 a ton for

[1:34:38] uh waste disposal. So, it costs us get

[1:34:41] more now to get rid of recycling than it

[1:34:43] does to uh get rid of waste. So, that

[1:34:46] will be numbers that that we'd have to

[1:34:49] we we don't have da- data on. We we

[1:34:51] collect all our data Every All garbage

[1:34:54] goes in the one truck and it gets thrown

[1:34:55] away. We know uh

[1:34:58] what districts make what. Um we we can

[1:35:01] track that, uh but we can't track right

[1:35:04] now what households make, you know, how

[1:35:06] much weight. So, um

[1:35:09] having a dedicated fund where the

[1:35:12] uh if possible, revenue overflows go

[1:35:15] into uh for the the following year, you

[1:35:19] would then have a better idea after

[1:35:20] implementing the first year, um you

[1:35:23] know, how much you you overran, and then

[1:35:26] that could be credited to the year after

[1:35:29] and and balance it out. So, it is going

[1:35:31] to take a learning phase to get

[1:35:34] to a two-tier system,

[1:35:36] but I'm confident that we can get there.

[1:35:39] I I do think that it's going to take

[1:35:41] some time to implement, and it wouldn't

[1:35:42] be this year. Um

[1:35:44] but it would have to be looked at in the

[1:35:46] future. Um

[1:35:48] and larger conversations would have to

[1:35:51] be had between

[1:35:52] uh inter- you know, departments here in

[1:35:54] the city.

[1:35:56] Thank you. Question or comments, Mr.

[1:35:57] McGovern? Yeah, um prior conversation,

[1:36:00] uh we had talked about um

[1:36:02] 50 gallons of container.

[1:36:04] How is that uh I know in terms of our employees, how is that with the

[1:36:09] union? Are they going to be, you know,

[1:36:12] Right currently it's a 40-gallon, 45,

[1:36:14] 45-gallon.

[1:36:15] So

[1:36:16] >> So, can we ask him to ask him to go to a

[1:36:17] 50-gallon? How is that sitting with

[1:36:19] them? Are they in favor of that?

[1:36:24] The current contract refers to says

[1:36:27] 45-gallon, so that's what I asked be

[1:36:31] included in this.

[1:36:32] And our contract with Scotia

[1:36:37] says 90 gallons per

[1:36:40] but what it is, it's 45 for MSW, 45 for

[1:36:45] recyclables.

[1:36:46] Uh and that would just

[1:36:48] have a level of consistency across the

[1:36:51] board.

[1:36:53] Um the the code also says that

[1:36:57] we we accept anything from a 10-gallon

[1:37:00] to a 45-gallon. So, uh you know, if

[1:37:03] there is households that, you know, we

[1:37:06] can look at, you know, a smaller can for

[1:37:08] those people that

[1:37:09] uh are not able to uh you know, carry

[1:37:12] out that can.

[1:37:14] » [snorts]

[1:37:14] >> You know, if they only make two bags of

[1:37:15] garbage.

[1:37:17] I do think that in the rules and

[1:37:18] regulations that we have to uh define

[1:37:22] uh you know, what we want in the can.

[1:37:24] You know, is it is it uh you know, with

[1:37:27] an attached lid? Um

[1:37:29] all garbage should be bagged.

[1:37:32] And you know, so forth.

[1:37:35] Those are some things I'm currently

[1:37:36] working on,

[1:37:38] modifications to the entire chapter

[1:37:41] 161.

[1:37:43] Mr. McGovern. So, the proposal is that

[1:37:45] we're staying at 45 gallons, and I'm

[1:37:47] making it to go to 50 50 gallons. Uh

[1:37:50] we're staying at 45. I would recommend

[1:37:52] 45. So, whatever can fit in that

[1:37:53] 45-gallon

[1:37:55] container

[1:37:56] will get put out.

[1:37:58] And picked up. That's correct. Okay.

[1:38:00] Now, you mentioned something there um in

[1:38:02] terms of um

[1:38:03] money rolled over into the next year.

[1:38:05] But you're saying here you know, you

[1:38:07] have to If you read the code, they have

[1:38:08] that there. It it's supposed to have a

[1:38:09] dedicated fund for any uh revenue that's

[1:38:12] going in there, and I think that should

[1:38:14] continue. Um so, if there is a you know,

[1:38:18] if if we if we make it too much, if we

[1:38:21] say

[1:38:22] uh to collect for that second tier is is

[1:38:24] way and and we overestimate it, uh based

[1:38:28] on we don't know exactly what each

[1:38:29] household's going to put out, um

[1:38:32] we can then take that money and figure

[1:38:35] out what what the correction is for

[1:38:37] those families in the years to come.

[1:38:40] No, no, no, I'm glad you brought it up

[1:38:41] because this is a good opportunity for

[1:38:42] us maybe to separate the um

[1:38:44] the waste budget like how we do with the

[1:38:47] um

[1:38:48] water and sewer, and to have a

[1:38:49] stand-alone

[1:38:51] waste collection um revenue budget um

[1:38:55] Which is what we've been trying to do.

[1:38:57] The

[1:38:58] fee uh we wanted to cover waste

[1:39:00] collection.

[1:39:02] Today, the waste fee is subsidized by

[1:39:05] the general fund.

[1:39:08] Well, that's what I'm saying. Well, this

[1:39:09] is what I'm saying. This is our plan.

[1:39:10] Talk about taking the surplus and

[1:39:13] carrying it forward. There is none. It's

[1:39:16] a structural deficit. Yeah.

[1:39:19] So, I think we need to look at that

[1:39:20] maybe in the next budget to separate

[1:39:22] the funding for

[1:39:23] ways. It would be an ideal idea to get

[1:39:25] it going. We're talking about this

[1:39:26] because he seems to be talking about

[1:39:28] ways over the last several years, but I

[1:39:30] think we need to So, we're talking about

[1:39:31] it, we need to address it and get it

[1:39:33] behind us. And maybe it's a good

[1:39:34] opportunity for us to have a separate

[1:39:36] funding

[1:39:37] source.

[1:39:39] Good morning, everyone.

[1:39:41] Uh Mr. Chairs,

[1:39:42] you had made reference to a shortfall of

[1:39:45] about five digit figures. Can you speak

[1:39:46] more to that? Uh I'm going to just say

[1:39:48] that we're we're probably looking at

[1:39:50] numbers that are in the red and we're

[1:39:52] going to be looking for revenue based on

[1:39:54] the current tipping fees

[1:39:56] and what we have collected. Garbage is

[1:39:58] not static. It kind of goes like this,

[1:40:01] so I can't say it's absolute.

[1:40:04] You know, everybody could stop throwing

[1:40:06] out, but

[1:40:07] what we've seen in the past is is a lot

[1:40:09] of people move in the summertime before

[1:40:12] they have their kids are in school,

[1:40:14] stuff like that. So, we we know that

[1:40:17] there's a heavy time coming also, so we

[1:40:20] can we can kind of predict that there's

[1:40:22] going to be some more

[1:40:24] garbage being thrown out than normal,

[1:40:27] you know, or or typical.

[1:40:29] And follow up to that, so you and you

[1:40:30] said there might be a need for a second

[1:40:32] software system through OGS to work

[1:40:34] everything out.

[1:40:36] And I'm thinking just from what we've

[1:40:37] done already, time frame wise, how long

[1:40:39] would it take you to implement start the

[1:40:41] implementation process of this two-tier

[1:40:43] system? Say if we were to pass it today,

[1:40:46] how long would it take you? Obviously,

[1:40:48] that's not what's happening at the

[1:40:49] moment, right?

[1:40:50] So, so we'd have to come up with the

[1:40:52] determinations of exactly what

[1:40:55] the department needs to operate.

[1:40:59] It's got to be efficient. It's got to

[1:41:00] take in

[1:41:02] It's got to offer the best services to

[1:41:04] the community

[1:41:06] and also use in what I think is going to

[1:41:09] be integrated the AI software program

[1:41:11] that identifies the properties that

[1:41:14] for my garbage men, how many, you know,

[1:41:17] is it a multi-tier or is it single-tier

[1:41:20] directly, so then we can absolutely send

[1:41:23] out notice of violation or no

[1:41:27] concern that that their garbage is out

[1:41:30] without you know,

[1:41:32] illegal now.

[1:41:34] And to finish this just cuz our time

[1:41:36] frame is we had said

[1:41:38] suspended the program till June. And you

[1:41:40] may not have the answer now, but if you

[1:41:41] could come back with a before you or Mr.

[1:41:43] LaFontaine, just a recommendation

[1:41:44] finishing out this year because as we've

[1:41:46] continued to have these conversations, I

[1:41:48] do believe it's productive. We're

[1:41:49] looking at realistically things that we

[1:41:51] can implement by 2027 for the year

[1:41:53] assuming, right? So, how can we finish

[1:41:55] out the last six months of this year

[1:41:56] that's going to work with OGS workers

[1:41:58] and that the union's going to be okay

[1:41:59] with as well? Yeah, I apologize for not

[1:42:02] being able to actually give them up a

[1:42:03] time for the software system and all

[1:42:05] that comes,

[1:42:07] you know, with designers and you know,

[1:42:10] going out to bid. So, there's there's a

[1:42:11] lot of specs to go for for 2026, it's it's quantifying

[1:42:18] garbage. It's putting limitations on how

[1:42:21] much people are throw to be thrown out

[1:42:24] in bulk items. And then

[1:42:26] an educational program should be put out

[1:42:29] for

[1:42:30] what the expectations of the overflow of

[1:42:33] those bulk items and how the public

[1:42:36] should be handling them

[1:42:38] is what I would recommend.

[1:42:39] Mr. Lance, Mayor Mr. Mayor.

[1:42:43] The simplest approach would be getting

[1:42:46] the council to make a decision

[1:42:48] what the quantity is. So, if you go with

[1:42:51] the 45 gallon can,

[1:42:55] the first can we pick up under the

[1:42:57] current fee structure,

[1:43:00] you can still reduce that down to say

[1:43:03] that's [clears throat] going to be

[1:43:04] five or six bags 13 gallon or whatever,

[1:43:08] so we can still pick those up. People

[1:43:10] who want the additional

[1:43:13] service

[1:43:14] can be charged and then

[1:43:16] look at it as the simplest thing is

[1:43:18] today we pass out the stickers that go

[1:43:20] on the cans for recycling is we put out

[1:43:24] the sticker

[1:43:26] that designates the house is having a

[1:43:30] has paid the higher fee so that they

[1:43:31] could put out two cans that we would

[1:43:34] pick up.

[1:43:35] And again, as Mr. Lance talked about,

[1:43:37] there's still a lot of variables in some

[1:43:40] of that. What do you do with the bulk

[1:43:42] items? How do you handle that?

[1:43:46] But we could start to phase some of that

[1:43:48] in

[1:43:50] relatively quickly

[1:43:52] building in

[1:43:55] flexibility and then also having just a

[1:43:57] learning curve of how quick people adapt

[1:44:01] the

[1:44:02] process and

[1:44:05] again, as opposed to the city buying the

[1:44:07] cans, we say there's a designated can

[1:44:11] and work with

[1:44:12] you know, some of the local hardware

[1:44:14] stores where

[1:44:16] people want to go and buy it, they buy

[1:44:18] it.

[1:44:19] Again, have to set the standard on it

[1:44:21] for does it have the lid? Does it have

[1:44:23] the wheels?

[1:44:25] Other features that make it more

[1:44:29] functional for the crew in the street.

[1:44:32] I think before I think to that point,

[1:44:34] Mr. Engert was talking about those

[1:44:35] efforts as well. You want to take a

[1:44:36] moment? Yeah, so I think

[1:44:39] I definitely agree with Mr. Lance that

[1:44:41] we need to quantify garbage. I think

[1:44:44] at the last committee meeting we

[1:44:46] stressed that. I think we also need to

[1:44:47] stress for the remainder of this year

[1:44:49] after June like Mr. Chairs was saying,

[1:44:51] what are we going to collect for bulk

[1:44:53] because once that expires,

[1:44:55] we're going back to the sticker program

[1:44:56] where right now we're just collecting

[1:44:58] everything, which I think like you said

[1:44:59] is not sustainable.

[1:45:01] Um

[1:45:02] to the mayor's point about cans and

[1:45:05] working with local hardware stores, the

[1:45:06] city of New York,

[1:45:08] they partner with Home Depot

[1:45:11] to have the city seal painted on garbage

[1:45:13] cans that they sell in the store.

[1:45:15] There is data that we could do that and

[1:45:18] partner with them, but I think that's

[1:45:19] more of a long drawn out process that we

[1:45:21] can look forward in the future. But I

[1:45:23] think for the short term, we definitely

[1:45:25] need to focus on like you said,

[1:45:26] quantifying garbage, quantifying

[1:45:28] jackpots, and then, you know, if we talk

[1:45:31] about 2027, 2028, 2029, where do we go

[1:45:34] from there? So.

[1:45:36] And I'm a fan of Lowe's, so we have to

[1:45:39] Mr. Mayor. Yeah, so I have to be careful

[1:45:41] what I'm saying.

[1:45:52] Yeah, thank you. I'm glad that you

[1:45:53] brought it up and saying that because

[1:45:56] that's what New York City has and these

[1:45:58] hardware stores will supply the can with

[1:46:00] the seal.

[1:46:01] That's something that we can we can tap

[1:46:03] into when that comes to that.

[1:46:06] Actually purchase that at their cost and

[1:46:08] have them

[1:46:09] Um Mayor, you talked about

[1:46:11] track. How do we track these? If you

[1:46:13] were to go with this tier one, tier two

[1:46:15] system,

[1:46:17] are we going to be putting software

[1:46:19] technology in place to track show up to

[1:46:21] my place? How would you know that I am a

[1:46:23] tier one, tier two?

[1:46:26] You don't. My simple thing is you don't

[1:46:28] have a sticker on your can, you're tier

[1:46:30] one. You have a sticker on your second

[1:46:32] can, you're tier two.

[1:46:34] >> So, then okay, so then you're required

[1:46:35] to have a sticker to identify your your

[1:46:37] level. So, that would be the simpler

[1:46:39] way. So,

[1:46:41] council puts a fee on the sticker that

[1:46:43] goes on the can so that you now qualify

[1:46:45] for twice the amount of garbage as the

[1:46:49] regular household.

[1:46:50] >> Now, the reason why I ask is because,

[1:46:51] you know, our staff are there. I mean,

[1:46:53] we cannot put more on them. They're they're hustling and bustling to

[1:46:56] get that can into the garbage and move

[1:46:57] on to the next house. To add more stuff

[1:47:00] to them is kind of like compounding

[1:47:01] already that they're taxing with. The

[1:47:05] Mr. Walls talked about

[1:47:07] working with Civil.

[1:47:09] The

[1:47:11] presentation was done in the cycle

[1:47:12] before with the University of Albany.

[1:47:14] It's using some of the similar

[1:47:16] technology

[1:47:17] and those two companies talking to each

[1:47:19] other

[1:47:21] to be able to process that. So,

[1:47:23] University of Albany is not just looking

[1:47:25] at the garbage at the curb, but looking

[1:47:28] at litter on the street, uh

[1:47:31] other maintenance and code violations

[1:47:33] that would be

[1:47:35] uh

[1:47:35] >> [clears throat]

[1:47:36] >> people's front yards, how do you

[1:47:40] automate some of those notices? What we

[1:47:42] found in the past is if we send out a

[1:47:45] notice for people who

[1:47:47] have

[1:47:49] bushes that aren't cut or long grass, we

[1:47:52] get a very high compliance rate with

[1:47:54] just

[1:47:56] reminding people that they should be

[1:47:57] doing it differently. And then it's how

[1:48:00] do you focus the resources on those

[1:48:02] problem properties or property owners

[1:48:06] who drive our costs because they're not

[1:48:09] picking the stuff up or they're cleaning

[1:48:11] the building out, putting the jackpot

[1:48:13] out there, so we're expecting us to pick

[1:48:15] up a couple tons of material uh

[1:48:19] once a month.

[1:48:20] And you Mr. Chairs.

[1:48:22] So,

[1:48:23] could you Did you have a question?

[1:48:25] Sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Did you have a

[1:48:26] follow up? Yeah, I do I do have a follow

[1:48:28] up if you don't mind. Yeah, Mayor, I'm

[1:48:29] glad you touched on that because this

[1:48:31] ticket here that we had rolled out a

[1:48:33] couple years ago, this is a parent

[1:48:35] ticket to the police department. It did

[1:48:36] mention littering and over bulk of

[1:48:38] trash.

[1:48:40] Can we

[1:48:41] tap into Civic to work with the police

[1:48:43] in order for this for this ticketing

[1:48:45] system?

[1:48:47] That's part of the But that's part of

[1:48:49] the thing. How do you automate that and

[1:48:53] be able to get it generated

[1:48:56] reduce the manpower so that you

[1:49:00] Everything still requires like a human

[1:49:02] review. [clears throat] So, somebody's

[1:49:03] got to sit and

[1:49:05] look at the photos, look at the stuff,

[1:49:07] but today we send one person out look at

[1:49:10] it, they write it down, they go to the

[1:49:12] next house. This year you can

[1:49:15] scan 100 houses,

[1:49:17] you know, in a very short period of time

[1:49:19] and identify those that are in need of

[1:49:24] color

[1:49:25] a polite reminder and then

[1:49:28] those that don't comply with that then

[1:49:30] we become more aggressive in our

[1:49:32] follow-up. Yeah, just to get address

[1:49:33] some of those first some of them right

[1:49:35] as highlights. So we just need to tap

[1:49:36] into the service

[1:49:38] so they can get the next one before I if you don't mind.

[1:49:42] So since we're look like we're moving

[1:49:43] forward in in a positive direction here

[1:49:45] in terms of addressing this verbiage,

[1:49:47] should we

[1:49:49] move forward in terms of

[1:49:50] rescinding the sticker program because

[1:49:53] the timing we have to look at the timing

[1:49:55] also because June 2nd and we want to

[1:49:57] give ourselves enough time to what do we

[1:49:59] need to do? Public hearing? Do we need a

[1:50:01] public hearing to rescind that?

[1:50:03] And to bring that, you know, get that

[1:50:05] behind us and move forward into this new

[1:50:07] program. Mr. Ryan. Yeah, to answer that

[1:50:10] question, if you're going to rescind

[1:50:11] the, you know, any amendments to chapter

[1:50:13] 161, they're going to have to be via

[1:50:15] public hearing. And and if you res-

[1:50:19] change anything,

[1:50:21] obviously you're amending the code so

[1:50:22] that requires public hearing. So the way

[1:50:25] ahead is really the question I was going

[1:50:27] to ask is that as as Mr. Ryan indicated,

[1:50:31] he's been working on sections of the

[1:50:32] code that are going to have to be

[1:50:34] changed and we can we legal office can work with Mr. Ryan on getting that

[1:50:39] done.

[1:50:41] Your moratorium or suspension expires on

[1:50:44] Sunday, June 14th regarding the sticker

[1:50:46] program.

[1:50:48] So I'm hearing here is a tier one

[1:50:50] program and a tier two program. When do

[1:50:52] you want to implement that tier one?

[1:50:55] When do you want to implement tier two?

[1:50:57] And what and and to your question, Mr. Ryan, you

[1:51:02] know, what do where does that leave the

[1:51:03] sticker program? Do we leave the sticker

[1:51:05] program phasing out at the end of the

[1:51:07] year or

[1:51:09] create, you know, what the guidance that

[1:51:12] the council has to give Mr. Ryan and the

[1:51:14] legal department at this point is what

[1:51:16] do you want to do? You want to do a tier

[1:51:18] one, tier two with an effective date,

[1:51:21] you know, January 1 of 2026 or an

[1:51:24] effective date before that and or you want to

[1:51:29] you know

[1:51:31] rescind the just out out rescind the the sticker program. But what are you

[1:51:35] going to put in its place and when do

[1:51:37] you want that phased in? So

[1:51:41] what we need from the council, Mr. Ryan

[1:51:43] and legal to in order to draft something

[1:51:46] up so at your next meeting you have

[1:51:48] something

[1:51:50] for in the code in front of you

[1:51:53] and then go through the public hearing

[1:51:54] process and I can go through that, Mr.

[1:51:56] Chairman, just

[1:51:57] regarding the timelines later on.

[1:52:00] But what we need is when you want that

[1:52:03] started under

[1:52:05] you know, tier one, tier

[1:52:08] two, what does that include? When does

[1:52:10] that start? And what what does that mean

[1:52:12] for the sticker program? Uh did you

[1:52:14] follow Mr. Ryan? Yes. So

[1:52:17] thank you. Thank you for clarifying

[1:52:19] that. So as we move forward and we're

[1:52:20] going to be adopting, hopefully, tier

[1:52:23] one, tier two. And as we rescind the

[1:52:25] sticker program, I think we should do

[1:52:27] both at the same time with Mr. uh

[1:52:30] Ryan

[1:52:32] and the finance team

[1:52:34] and corporation council's and our

[1:52:36] council is incorporate all at the same

[1:52:38] time because you're going to need a

[1:52:39] public hearing

[1:52:40] to amend chapter 161 and at the same

[1:52:43] time you need to do all in one roll out

[1:52:45] one. So I I think we should do both at

[1:52:47] the same time rather than doing rescind

[1:52:50] one and then go back two weeks or four

[1:52:52] weeks and then have to go and amend it.

[1:52:54] So I think we need to

[1:52:56] put it all together and do one

[1:52:58] public hearing and amend it so that get

[1:53:00] the language in at the same time. Thank

[1:53:02] you. Mr. Ryan. Yeah, and just to follow

[1:53:04] up on that, just to clarify so

[1:53:05] everybody's on the same page as far as

[1:53:07] the hearing schedule and when this has

[1:53:08] to roll out regarding the deadline.

[1:53:11] So

[1:53:12] you know, next committee cycle we'll

[1:53:14] work up a draft for for for for the

[1:53:16] council to take a look at. At the next

[1:53:19] committee cycle, which is on May 4th,

[1:53:21] you'll review the draft and then pass

[1:53:23] out a resolution calling for a public

[1:53:25] hearing for May 26th.

[1:53:28] That resolution calling for the public

[1:53:30] hearing will be on

[1:53:31] May 11th.

[1:53:33] And then at the next committee cycle,

[1:53:36] which is May 18th, you'll have a second

[1:53:38] look at the draft

[1:53:40] and then

[1:53:41] the after the public hearing, which will

[1:53:44] include the new language as well as the

[1:53:47] repealed language to be taken out if if

[1:53:50] that's what the council wants,

[1:53:53] it can all be part cuz it's all going to

[1:53:54] be part of one chapter 161.

[1:53:58] Then after the public hearing, there is

[1:54:00] a if there's a committee cycle after

[1:54:02] that on June 1, so based on the comments

[1:54:05] you hear from the public, you'll have

[1:54:06] another opportunity to look at the the

[1:54:09] proposed order ordinance, pass it out

[1:54:12] committee. The next the next city

[1:54:15] council meeting is June 8th and that is

[1:54:18] before the deadline, which is on Sunday,

[1:54:20] June 14th.

[1:54:22] Thank you, Mr. Chairs.

[1:54:25] It's a lot.

[1:54:26] Possibly Mr. Ryan, you got a lot in

[1:54:28] right there. So first I I want to stay

[1:54:29] on point with that. With this looking at

[1:54:31] the timeline that Mr. Ryan just laid out

[1:54:33] for us, would your team be able to get

[1:54:35] the council those numbers that we're

[1:54:36] expecting today before May 4th

[1:54:39] committee cycle? So this way we can

[1:54:41] actually review those numbers as well so

[1:54:43] we can make if we're going to put it all

[1:54:44] into one public hearing cycle, I feel

[1:54:46] and I'm not speaking for council for

[1:54:48] myself, I would like to have those

[1:54:49] numbers so we can better review and

[1:54:51] understand that we are going to move

[1:54:52] into this tier two, make that decision

[1:54:53] that same day. I have no problem

[1:54:55] pressing forward and I want to make that

[1:54:56] informed conversation decision once we get to that point. So

[1:55:01] if that's something your team could do,

[1:55:03] I would be in favor with Mr. Ryan moving

[1:55:06] forward with the code change as well.

[1:55:07] I appreciate that question and

[1:55:10] my blunt answer is no. I really think

[1:55:12] that there has to be internal

[1:55:14] conversations with our taxation

[1:55:16] department

[1:55:18] of how this money is received and then

[1:55:20] build out. Currently,

[1:55:22] if somebody doesn't pay a bill, it goes

[1:55:24] onto the tax roll.

[1:55:26] Two-tier system you having municity and

[1:55:29] our software system limitations.

[1:55:31] Currently, I think we've got to get over

[1:55:33] that hurdle

[1:55:34] unless we rethink it and simplify the

[1:55:36] system of uh

[1:55:39] and modify the code later on.

[1:55:43] Also, that the

[1:55:44] 161 chapter 161

[1:55:47] with the rest of the code is is a

[1:55:49] disaster, you know, it's it's old and

[1:55:52] hasn't been revamped. I want to put it

[1:55:54] together in in one orderly fashion that

[1:55:57] will last uh quite a few years and and

[1:56:00] this council can be proud of. So

[1:56:03] I would say it that timeline for me is

[1:56:06] unrealistic and I need to

[1:56:08] you know, further data from the

[1:56:11] council you know, on proposals for

[1:56:15] what I would like to do into

[1:56:17] what everyone wants to do in their

[1:56:19] chapter 161. Uh just for example, we had

[1:56:23] uh code enforcement administrative fees

[1:56:25] were raised last year but

[1:56:28] uh nuisance administrative fees

[1:56:31] still remain at $50 admin fee, which

[1:56:33] doesn't cost the cover

[1:56:35] operational costs. So there's things

[1:56:38] like that that I

[1:56:39] need to be considered. Would they be put

[1:56:42] in? Would they be approved and and then

[1:56:44] go forward from there? So I I think

[1:56:47] going a little deeper with the timeline

[1:56:49] would be more realistic and then

[1:56:51] implementation

[1:56:53] I think it would be

[1:56:55] 2027. Okay. So how long projectively and

[1:56:59] I appreciate you being honest, thank you

[1:57:00] first off, would it take for your team

[1:57:02] because we are up against that timeline,

[1:57:04] right? June 14th in this room, we pushed

[1:57:05] this back. You all got a late start to

[1:57:07] this year anyway on top of everything

[1:57:09] else, the nonsense that we dealt with.

[1:57:11] So what can we what can we expect from

[1:57:14] you as a council timeline that's going

[1:57:15] to be realistic for you to put that

[1:57:17] together and I appreciate the fact that

[1:57:18] you want to help us put something that's

[1:57:20] going to be long standing in the city

[1:57:23] for code that I think hasn't been

[1:57:24] updated since like 1979. So it's like,

[1:57:26] you know,

[1:57:27] what what time frame would you need to

[1:57:29] get us those numbers? Um

[1:57:32] I I would say an extra 30 days would

[1:57:35] uh work wonders.

[1:57:38] I I would recommend that

[1:57:41] if it's if the sticker program, you

[1:57:43] know, has already been

[1:57:45] you know, extended 30 days, is that

[1:57:47] something there we could go forward and

[1:57:49] do another extension on and

[1:57:52] it's up to the what the council Mr.

[1:57:54] Mayor.

[1:57:55] Okay. What numbers are you looking for?

[1:57:58] My position has been the council has to

[1:58:00] make a decision on quantity.

[1:58:03] You seem to be moving closer to the 45

[1:58:05] gallons. If you can do that,

[1:58:08] we can move forward [clears throat]

[1:58:10] on a

[1:58:12] fairly simplified basis and still

[1:58:14] building some flexibility in it.

[1:58:17] The

[1:58:18] I'm not looking to buy the cans from the

[1:58:21] city.

[1:58:22] You know, we can say that here's the

[1:58:24] standard can, you can get it at Home

[1:58:27] Depot

[1:58:29] for city residents and Carl's Jr. and

[1:58:31] the discount at Lowe's just outside of

[1:58:33] the city.

[1:58:34] But

[1:58:35] people can work from that and again

[1:58:40] commit to some level of flexible

[1:58:42] enforcement so [clears throat] that

[1:58:44] we're using common sense there. So if

[1:58:47] somebody goes a little bit over 45

[1:58:48] gallons, we're not giving them a hard

[1:58:50] time, but if somebody is putting out two

[1:58:53] tons of material,

[1:58:55] they've got to pay for it. Right.

[1:58:58] So right.

[1:58:59] So if I can going to I'm sorry, but I

[1:59:00] think similarly, I think we sort of

[1:59:02] getting away and I appreciate the level

[1:59:04] of detail you are providing. I think

[1:59:05] it's clear to point out that there are

[1:59:06] two separate functionalities at this

[1:59:08] table. We as council members legislate.

[1:59:11] The mayor's office is responsible for

[1:59:13] operating. So, I think with this how

[1:59:15] this situation was presented to the

[1:59:17] council is the language in the city code

[1:59:19] is unclear for me to implement

[1:59:21] throughout the city.

[1:59:22] Is that accurate, Mr. Nick? Correct. So,

[1:59:24] as we are continuing forward in this

[1:59:25] conversation, I think we're getting

[1:59:27] closer and I think with tonight's

[1:59:29] conversation, my expectations as one of

[1:59:31] seven votes was to give you the go ahead

[1:59:34] out of our committee to start building

[1:59:36] that language for the potential public

[1:59:39] hearing later on.

[1:59:41] Um,

[1:59:41] I think my comment directly to you, Mr.

[1:59:43] Lund, is can you just simply build a fee

[1:59:47] structure for these two tiers

[1:59:50] and I understand how you implement it is

[1:59:52] going to be complicated, to say the

[1:59:53] least, but that very much is a

[1:59:55] consideration outside of the council.

[1:59:57] I'm confident we can come up with that

[1:59:59] in 2 weeks.

[2:00:01] yeah. Thank you. Um, any

[2:00:04] other questions or comments?

[2:00:06] I do. Mr. O'Brien. So, we're talking

[2:00:08] about the 45-gallon that we're going to

[2:00:10] require that the homeowner purchases,

[2:00:12] that we're going to have to need to add

[2:00:13] Sorry, we're going to need to add that

[2:00:15] into 161. Yeah. Yeah, this is going to

[2:00:17] have to be amended. It's all It's all

[2:00:19] going to be forbidden. As Mr. Lund

[2:00:21] indicated, it's going to all be part of

[2:00:23] the whole big package. You know,

[2:00:26] obviously the [clears throat] the emphasis will be

[2:00:28] on

[2:00:29] the number of cans, etc. You know, the

[2:00:32] immediate but we're going to be working

[2:00:34] on that. So, yes,

[2:00:36] to answer your question, you will

[2:00:37] require that to be amended along with

[2:00:40] other items. And then in terms of if

[2:00:42] someone refused to purchase or not

[2:00:44] purchase, is there a violation? Will

[2:00:46] there [clears throat] be a fine attached

[2:00:47] to that as part of the I would, in the

[2:00:50] interim, do a conversion to bags so that

[2:00:55] we The ideal thing is that they have a

[2:00:57] 45-gallon can out there, but if they put

[2:01:01] whatever the council decided, six or

[2:01:03] seven bags out, we would pick that up.

[2:01:05] Something that is close to the capacity

[2:01:08] of the 45-gallon can.

[2:01:12] So.

[2:01:13] you're you're not required to

[2:01:15] purchase a can with a lid? Not

[2:01:17] initially. Not initially? There'd be

[2:01:19] that phase-in to

[2:01:21] So, we'll we'll need to add that in

[2:01:23] also. We We can We can address it in

[2:01:26] tiers so that that phased-in as various

[2:01:29] parts of the the code are phased in. So,

[2:01:31] we can hear that over with Mr. Lund and

[2:01:35] Mr. Lafond on that, but we can tier that

[2:01:37] in. And I think for any violations, we

[2:01:39] already have that and that if that's

[2:01:41] what Mr. Lund was talking about about

[2:01:43] kind of upping, you know, for whatever

[2:01:45] reason that that fee was

[2:01:47] not in the part of the table of fees

[2:01:48] increased a couple years ago, so that

[2:01:50] can be dealt with as part of this

[2:01:52] omnibus package.

[2:01:54] Um, Mr. Wiggins. I have

[2:01:56] I I can talk a little bit if you need to

[2:01:58] increase the fee for the garbage

[2:02:00] section, right? But in terms of a

[2:02:02] nuisance, that's a different thing, but

[2:02:03] I remember when I was piloting a fee

[2:02:06] increase, I did reach out to Paul and

[2:02:08] team

[2:02:09] and asked to sit down and to meet as

[2:02:11] part of the budget team cycle where we

[2:02:13] increase the fee and nobody from OGS sat

[2:02:16] down with me. No, I said we did, but

[2:02:19] uh, code enforcement only.

[2:02:22] No, no, we talked about nuisance fees.

[2:02:23] No, we did not. We It was never It was

[2:02:26] never brought forward at all. We did

[2:02:27] talk about code enforcement. We did talk

[2:02:30] about police and all of that, but the

[2:02:31] fee was not

[2:02:32] directly nuisance You know, I don't I I

[2:02:35] don't think ever you should have a split

[2:02:36] different fee for one department than

[2:02:39] there's the other. It's based on the

[2:02:41] cost of operation.

[2:02:43] Why would the cost of operation for

[2:02:45] nuisance be any different than code

[2:02:46] enforcement? So, them being grouped in

[2:02:49] just because they're under OGS and and

[2:02:52] building department being all over here

[2:02:53] in City Hall

[2:02:55] is is uh

[2:02:57] Well, at that time we were doing Yeah.

[2:02:59] At that time we were going department to

[2:03:00] department so to kind of

[2:03:02] look at the fees and

[2:03:04] correct them.

[2:03:06] So, we can do it. I reached out to you

[2:03:07] and we can we can come

[2:03:09] >> absolutely. And we did that for the code

[2:03:10] enforcement only. I

[2:03:12] And come up with a with a new fee

[2:03:14] structure for

[2:03:16] the ones that we missed Yeah,

[2:03:17] absolutely. the last 2 years and we can

[2:03:19] correct it. I I I think

[2:03:20] what I'm looking at is proposing an

[2:03:22] entire

[2:03:24] a tiered system for

[2:03:27] enforcement for, you know, hopefully

[2:03:29] that a you know,

[2:03:31] a first tier would be like an

[2:03:32] administrative fee, the second tier

[2:03:34] would be the administrative fee plus

[2:03:38] a fine on top, third tier, you know,

[2:03:41] each violation in the 18-month period

[2:03:43] would would would go up on a property

[2:03:46] that was not complying so we can

[2:03:48] actually start to gain compliance.

[2:03:51] Um, I see too many people come in and

[2:03:53] just pay the admin fees and and you

[2:03:56] know, they know their tenants are doing

[2:03:58] wrong. We want them to manage their

[2:03:59] properties and that's we want good

[2:04:01] property managers out there. Um,

[2:04:05] and secondary to that, I see a lot of

[2:04:07] landlords that were um

[2:04:10] uh,

[2:04:10] issued violations for what their tenants

[2:04:13] put out. So, so they're they're the ones

[2:04:16] paying the violations for, you know, So,

[2:04:19] we we really have to have education for

[2:04:21] the landlords and you know, the

[2:04:23] single-family homes here in this program

[2:04:26] to be successful.

[2:04:28] So, so let's let's discuss that and we

[2:04:30] can

[2:04:31] discuss that and then I'll bring it to

[2:04:32] the council and discuss and move forward

[2:04:34] with amending the fees for the Let's do

[2:04:36] some lunch. We can all sit down and have

[2:04:38] lunch. What time is it?

[2:04:40] That would be a great idea. Yes. So,

[2:04:42] I'll meet with you, Mr. O'Brien, Mr.

[2:04:44] Wiggins, and then Mr. Ingram.

[2:04:46] Um, I just think the language needs to

[2:04:48] be clear because summer is much shorter

[2:04:51] than winter and we do have a lot of

[2:04:52] seniors that have to put out their

[2:04:53] garbage. And we had a gentleman that

[2:04:56] just came to the council last week where

[2:04:58] in the wintertime he can't get to his

[2:04:59] garbage cans. So, I think everything

[2:05:02] needs to be clear and followed so that

[2:05:05] we're not only recognizing

[2:05:08] um

[2:05:09] our youth and middle age, we also have

[2:05:11] to consider our seasons.

[2:05:16] Individuals where they have to put their

[2:05:18] garbage out and be considerate of of

[2:05:19] them also. Yeah.

[2:05:21] Mr. Ingram.

[2:05:22] So, I think the the discussion has been

[2:05:24] very productive. I just think we've gone

[2:05:27] Not to your respect, Mr. Lund, we've

[2:05:28] gone way full circle. To well put.

[2:05:32] So, I think that, you know, for the

[2:05:33] remainder of the year past June 14th, we

[2:05:36] have to do something with bulk. We can't

[2:05:38] go back to

[2:05:40] like we are now collecting everything.

[2:05:41] So, if we were to implement a 45-gallon

[2:05:44] can,

[2:05:45] if that's, you know, 45-gallon can is a

[2:05:47] 45-gallon can, that's what you get. You

[2:05:49] could put a smaller can out like the

[2:05:50] mayor said,

[2:05:51] but up to a 45-gallon can and then,

[2:05:55] you know, how whatever we decide on

[2:05:56] bulk, if it's one, two, whatever, but I

[2:05:58] think for the rest of the the year, we

[2:06:00] have to decide that because

[2:06:02] like you said, it's not sustainable

[2:06:04] right now. And if we keep going down

[2:06:05] that road, it's just going to keep

[2:06:07] getting worse and worse and worse. So,

[2:06:08] then if we were talking in 2027 to make

[2:06:11] these radical changes, I think that's

[2:06:13] great, but I think for the the current

[2:06:16] time period and the schedule that Mr.

[2:06:18] O'Brien outlined, we need to make a

[2:06:19] recommendation for that just so that

[2:06:21] we're ready for June 15th after the

[2:06:23] deadline.

[2:06:24] Mr. And I currently apologize Mr. Turner

[2:06:27] for patiently waiting.

[2:06:30] for a chance

[2:06:34] I've said this before, we have one time

[2:06:35] to do it right and we're going to do it

[2:06:37] right. I I firmly believe that. So, I

[2:06:40] don't think we need any numbers in 2

[2:06:41] weeks and and

[2:06:43] I personally appreciate everything that

[2:06:46] you're working on and doing. It can't be

[2:06:48] easy on top of all your other

[2:06:50] jobs that you have to do. So, I I I

[2:06:53] think we need to just slow it down a

[2:06:55] little bit if we're not even thinking

[2:06:56] about implementing anything until 2027.

[2:06:59] Get the numbers right

[2:07:01] once and for all. Do it once and for

[2:07:03] all.

[2:07:04] And again, I agree with Mr.

[2:07:08] Payton, yes.

[2:07:10] Um,

[2:07:11] the fact that we really

[2:07:14] » [laughter]

[2:07:16] >> that it's not sustainable to pick up all

[2:07:19] this bulk moving forward and

[2:07:21] from June on, I don't think we should

[2:07:23] rescind it at any point

[2:07:26] for the rest of the year. We have time

[2:07:28] to talk about it how, you know,

[2:07:29] especially we need to address the bulk.

[2:07:31] So, we really need to

[2:07:33] besides the 45-gallon can and the two

[2:07:36] cans or even three cans should should

[2:07:39] different buildings want.

[2:07:40] Again, what they're going to pay for to

[2:07:42] pick it all up. So, I think we I don't

[2:07:44] think we should rescind that at all.

[2:07:46] Um, I know we'll have a lot of extra

[2:07:49] trash

[2:07:50] when we go to pick up cans that

[2:07:52] residents are using now and on

[2:07:53] appropriate on the tops or whatever. And

[2:07:56] I know when one of my cans breaks, I

[2:07:57] always have to put a sign on it, "Please

[2:07:59] take the can." So,

[2:08:01] um, those are my just that, you know,

[2:08:02] again, I I

[2:08:03] want to reiterate the fact that

[2:08:05] we want to do it right and and we're on

[2:08:07] a we're on a very clear path, I believe.

[2:08:11] Mr. Ingram. I'm sorry.

[2:08:13] I assume the council has

[2:08:15] asked come to agreement on the bulk

[2:08:18] items of picking up two bulk items once

[2:08:21] a month.

[2:08:23] Is that

[2:08:24] That's what I heard.

[2:08:25] So, it's my concern with that is

[2:08:27] how do you communicate that to the public where we're now

[2:08:31] restricting it, putting it on certain

[2:08:33] days, if there's a process for how we

[2:08:35] can properly inform the community

[2:08:37] because I imagine on top of not having

[2:08:38] that

[2:08:39] software, that CTG software, now CTG

[2:08:42] software now,

[2:08:43] that is

[2:08:45] on top of everything else burdening your

[2:08:47] staff more. So, could you even

[2:08:49] enforce that? Well, got to answer. I

[2:08:51] know confidently you couldn't. So, if we

[2:08:53] continue throughout the year limiting it

[2:08:55] to one per pickup, I think that

[2:08:57] streamlines it and then the new year we

[2:08:59] can roll out as aggressive as an

[2:09:01] approach. I I agree with that limiting

[2:09:03] it to two per month.

[2:09:05] Okay.

[2:09:07] I'm sorry. Go ahead. I I I was just

[2:09:09] going to say and and I don't know if

[2:09:11] this

[2:09:12] rolling around the thought here that our

[2:09:14] qualifying garbage

[2:09:18] and instead of in this year

[2:09:20] we you know implementing the second

[2:09:22] tier, I don't know is it possible to

[2:09:25] open up the sticker program for the rest

[2:09:27] of the year to to address the additional

[2:09:30] bulk items

[2:09:32] for

[2:09:34] those properties and say hey, we've got a plethora of stickers to to

[2:09:38] give out and if it it would help us get

[2:09:41] rid of these stickers also. So, I don't

[2:09:42] know you know, that's

[2:09:44] an idea that anybody's welcome to

[2:09:47] Mr. Evans. I just think it is important

[2:09:50] to get the numbers because the council

[2:09:51] president asked for the numbers weeks

[2:09:53] ago. And I think that any department

[2:09:56] that we ask for numbers or anything

[2:09:57] from, I think the council deserves it.

[2:10:00] No, you're 100% right. I do apologize.

[2:10:02] The the numbers are in the budget. So,

[2:10:04] if you look at the budget is what we

[2:10:07] budgeted for and and the only numbers

[2:10:09] that really don't have is what we've

[2:10:11] spent this year. All right, so

[2:10:15] it it it's hard to quantify

[2:10:17] it it's all it's all fluid right here

[2:10:20] because we don't know what comes from

[2:10:21] your house, your house, your house, your house, right? So, we're

[2:10:25] you're all charged the same. So, I can't

[2:10:27] say that I'm going to predict that

[2:10:32] 30% are going to want this bulk item

[2:10:34] program. I don't know what that number

[2:10:36] is actually going to be, right?

[2:10:39] We don't collect data on everybody's

[2:10:42] household. So, it's hard to say

[2:10:45] this is what the number's going to

[2:10:47] This is the exact number that you have

[2:10:50] to charge to the second tier.

[2:10:54] Do you understand? I understand what

[2:10:55] you're saying, but just like a just a

[2:10:57] little demo of something that you was

[2:10:59] going to get us in two weeks, that's a

[2:11:01] start. I will give it to you. Thank you.

[2:11:03] Mr. Mayor.

[2:11:06] What numbers are you looking for? So,

[2:11:08] what if the one in can cost

[2:11:11] other factors and looking to how to do

[2:11:14] this as simple as possible starting off

[2:11:18] is to

[2:11:20] again the council has to set the

[2:11:22] quantity

[2:11:23] and whatever you do with the bulk items,

[2:11:26] is it one to two, whatever, but put

[2:11:29] those basic parameters in

[2:11:30] [clears throat] place and then we're in

[2:11:32] a much better position to do some of the

[2:11:35] estimates and extrapolation in terms of

[2:11:39] actual cost and there is the factor

[2:11:43] ideally if everybody

[2:11:45] got the cans

[2:11:47] it does increase the amount of time

[2:11:50] that's going to take to pick up the

[2:11:51] garbage because you got to go pick up

[2:11:53] the can, bring it to the truck and then

[2:11:55] bring it back where today with the bags

[2:11:58] they can bring it directly to the truck,

[2:12:00] drop it and then move on.

[2:12:02] And

[2:12:03] those numbers

[2:12:05] there's really no good way to do an

[2:12:07] estimate.

[2:12:09] But so let's say respectfully didn't

[2:12:11] send a few emails, one of which this

[2:12:13] morning just outlining the parameters

[2:12:16] where around the tier one, tier two cost

[2:12:19] structure, the amount of tonnage tonnage

[2:12:21] that we expect

[2:12:22] and then the gaps and projections for

[2:12:25] fiscal year 2027. And unfortunately

[2:12:28] those were not received. Now, I think at

[2:12:30] these conversations we can either harp

[2:12:31] on what we don't have or proceed forward

[2:12:33] with what we do. And I think the

[2:12:34] conversations tonight were still

[2:12:35] extremely valuable. I think being in the

[2:12:38] committee, not discrediting all the

[2:12:40] other voices, we do have to progress

[2:12:42] forward. This meeting does have to end

[2:12:43] tonight.

[2:12:46] I would say

[2:12:47] Mr. Lon, you've been incredibly

[2:12:49] detailed. I appreciate your time.

[2:12:52] But I would say consider to just the

[2:12:53] members of the committee

[2:12:55] what are we comfortable proceeding with?

[2:12:56] And I would say my recommendation is to

[2:12:58] Mr. O'Brien's earlier point building

[2:13:00] that draft language for consideration. I

[2:13:03] think building upon Mr. Muveran's point

[2:13:06] of also preparing to resend the bulk

[2:13:09] sticker program. Mr. Lon, I don't think

[2:13:11] that would fall favorably on anyone to

[2:13:13] extend it.

[2:13:14] Even if we're trying to get rid of get

[2:13:15] rid of the stickers, that is my personal

[2:13:17] opinion. I'm welcome anyone else's. But

[2:13:20] sincerely, I believe the community is

[2:13:22] going to want to see what those cost

[2:13:24] projections look like

[2:13:26] regardless of our confidence and then

[2:13:27] because this is a consideration they're

[2:13:29] going to have to make.

[2:13:30] And then what that protects us with is

[2:13:32] then for our future budget

[2:13:33] conversations, a lot of what has held up

[2:13:36] increases in fees has just been our

[2:13:37] confidence in the program. And if we can

[2:13:40] confidently

[2:13:41] renovate or update this policy, I think

[2:13:44] that then puts us in a better space to

[2:13:45] understand all right, what are the

[2:13:47] conversations going to look like in

[2:13:48] October and November ahead of time.

[2:13:51] Mr. Muveran. Just to summarize and I

[2:13:53] appreciate uh the committee for this.

[2:13:55] So,

[2:13:57] prior discussion we were talking about

[2:14:00] allow two bulk items per week

[2:14:02] or

[2:14:03] per month.

[2:14:04] And then we talked about the manpower.

[2:14:07] So, if I were to put out across the city

[2:14:09] two items every household one time per

[2:14:12] month

[2:14:14] the manpower behind that versus putting

[2:14:16] in two items every

[2:14:19] pickup cycle

[2:14:21] wherever it is free.

[2:14:23] It's

[2:14:23] hard to say because bulk items are are

[2:14:26] so different, you know, from a couch to

[2:14:28] a vacuum cleaner, you know, and so hard

[2:14:31] to say. I think the

[2:14:33] mayor keyed on the

[2:14:34] a key point of

[2:14:36] garbage is going to slow down when we go

[2:14:38] to a dedicated can. With the 45 gallon

[2:14:41] can, they're heavier. My guys are used

[2:14:43] to winging bags, you know, and and

[2:14:46] throwing the bags in the lighter cans.

[2:14:48] And when we go to a heavier,

[2:14:50] more durable, more reliable can,

[2:14:53] we are going to see garbage

[2:14:55] slow down which is going to drive up the

[2:14:56] cost of operation. So, well, how how

[2:14:59] long it's going to take extra, I don't

[2:15:01] know. How many more people we have to

[2:15:03] put on the route? But you know, these

[2:15:05] are all things that you know, are

[2:15:07] variables that will lead into like I

[2:15:09] said it

[2:15:10] you know, having [snorts]

[2:15:11] shooting a reasonable number that that

[2:15:14] works for us and the public and then

[2:15:16] having a dedicated fund for those over

[2:15:19] you know, let's shoot a little high and

[2:15:21] then you know, if it's in the dedicated

[2:15:23] funds the money goes to rolls over to

[2:15:26] the next year to

[2:15:28] supplement that department.

[2:15:30] So, I'm good with that. So,

[2:15:33] we have the the agreement that we can

[2:15:34] move forward two bulk items per month

[2:15:37] and then anything over that is a

[2:15:38] violation. We're going to need to work

[2:15:40] with corporation council to what what

[2:15:43] that violation fee is attached to that

[2:15:45] at that point if you go over your two

[2:15:47] bulk item per month and then stick with

[2:15:50] a 45 gallon dedicated can and with with

[2:15:54] a limit.

[2:15:55] And I think on the tier one which is

[2:15:57] basic like we get charged right now,

[2:15:59] tier two is added charge. So, that's

[2:16:01] what they're focusing on the fee for the

[2:16:03] tier the tier two. Tier one is my

[2:16:05] understanding that will be the basic

[2:16:07] fee.

[2:16:08] Every year up or down this highway every

[2:16:11] week is. So, I think

[2:16:13] we need to narrow this down and simplify

[2:16:15] the fee that we're asking for is tier

[2:16:17] two. And if we're going to agree to two

[2:16:21] bulk item per month and then if there if

[2:16:23] there's a violation on that then

[2:16:25] we need to work with corporation council

[2:16:27] to agree on a fee and I you know, that

[2:16:29] could come from

[2:16:31] you based on you know, your field work,

[2:16:33] how do you what you think is a

[2:16:34] reasonable fee in terms of that that

[2:16:36] violation and the administrative costs

[2:16:39] for that waste to collect. The best for

[2:16:42] the public is you know, like I said

[2:16:43] having AI technology [clears throat]

[2:16:45] notify that that is a violation and we

[2:16:49] pick it up at the time we see the

[2:16:51] violation. If we have to go back and

[2:16:54] send a separate truck like we were doing

[2:16:56] under the sticker program the cost of

[2:17:00] enforcing it goes Double cost, yes.

[2:17:02] Doubles the cost. So, I agree with that.

[2:17:04] Mr. Mayor.

[2:17:06] The other component I would submit to

[2:17:07] the council for your consideration is

[2:17:11] to what what Mr. O'Brien outlined is

[2:17:14] changing the code and there's a it's a

[2:17:16] new more cumbersome process to do that.

[2:17:20] Within those changes and we've done it

[2:17:22] in other areas of the code

[2:17:24] where if you want to change the fee or

[2:17:27] change one item, you can do it by

[2:17:30] resolution.

[2:17:32] So, that the code

[2:17:34] 99% of it is fixed in law and if you

[2:17:38] want to change it you got to do the

[2:17:39] public hearing, you got to do the public

[2:17:41] notice, you got to do it. But if you're

[2:17:42] changing

[2:17:44] one small component of it you can do

[2:17:47] that by resolution and it builds

[2:17:49] flexibility in it. So, if we get down

[2:17:50] the road, some of this you might want to

[2:17:52] increase the number or you might want to

[2:17:54] decrease the number and to do it again

[2:17:57] in the most expedited manner and one

[2:17:59] that simple and straightforward.

[2:18:02] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Sears, Mr.

[2:18:04] Andrew. So, just quick based on what

[2:18:07] I've heard the mayor say for the last

[2:18:08] two months and see what you guys would

[2:18:09] you guys be comfortable with the six,

[2:18:11] seven bags you would quantify that and

[2:18:13] that's I'm just me myself and you saying

[2:18:15] six or seven like that, but six or seven

[2:18:17] bags

[2:18:18] would be manageable for you guys to get

[2:18:20] that done as long with the two bulk

[2:18:22] items and also Lon had spoke about the

[2:18:24] time bringing right you guys are the

[2:18:25] only ones that have to get the job done,

[2:18:27] you don't get to come back the next day.

[2:18:28] Would that be manageable or do you feel

[2:18:31] that that would be

[2:18:32] too much? Well, I'm just saying you

[2:18:34] know, obviously everyone I agree with

[2:18:35] putting out six or seven bags.

[2:18:37] Thank you.

[2:18:38] Mr. Andrew. I am in agreement with you,

[2:18:41] Mr. Muveran. If we go to two bulk items

[2:18:42] a month in a 45 gallon can, I think

[2:18:45] again if we stick to simple for now and

[2:18:48] then we can roll out

[2:18:50] the increased fee schedule by

[2:18:51] resolution, that at least helps get our

[2:18:53] guys on board. It starts the process and

[2:18:56] we can move forward.

[2:18:58] Yes.

[2:18:58] >> [snorts]

[2:18:58] >> Perfect.

[2:18:59] >> [clears throat]

[2:18:59] >> So, is that a motion?

[2:19:01] for what?

[2:19:04] Well, not motion, but how we're going to

[2:19:05] proceed. So, Is that interpreted by Mr.

[2:19:08] Walsh?

[2:19:09] It gives Yes.

[2:19:12] The the commissioner

[2:19:14] and legal, the framework in which to start drafting

[2:19:18] the ordinance.

[2:19:19] Perfect. Sorry. Expectation is to have

[2:19:21] that back at council for 2 weeks.

[2:19:23] >> 2 weeks, we'll have a working draft for

[2:19:25] you. And at that point, you can tweak

[2:19:27] it, change it, and then at that time you

[2:19:30] can call for the public hearing for

[2:19:32] March 26th

[2:19:34] at the council meeting of March 7th.

[2:19:36] Perfect. Mr. Ingram? Just to add to

[2:19:38] that,

[2:19:40] other members in the committee, I think

[2:19:42] we should put in there has to have a

[2:19:43] lid. Um Kevin, must have a lid, yes.

[2:19:46] Must have a lid. The garbage must be in

[2:19:48] bags. The lid must be attached. Um I

[2:19:50] don't know how you feel about wheels.

[2:19:53] Um

[2:19:54] Well,

[2:19:55] but

[2:19:56] most of most of these cans come with

[2:19:58] wheels, but sometimes accident may

[2:20:01] occur.

[2:20:02] But that I think definitely a lid

[2:20:03] attached and definitely the garbage has

[2:20:05] to be in bags in the can.

[2:20:09] Yes. Also, that will be a grab. But

[2:20:10] whatever we're discussing here, this is

[2:20:12] only for one unit. So, if there's a

[2:20:14] two-unit, you're allowed four bulk

[2:20:16] items, two cans for garbage, solid

[2:20:19] waste, one for recycling. and two for

[2:20:21] recycling. Correct. So, we might want to

[2:20:23] capture that in the in the drawing.

[2:20:25] Right. Yes.

[2:20:27] Perfect. There are no other questions. I

[2:20:28] think this is good.

[2:20:31] Heading in the right direction.

[2:20:32] Yes. Thank you, Mr. Walsh. Thank you.

[2:20:35] sir. Yeah, thank you. Get her

[2:20:36] to sit down if anyone has another

[2:20:37] question.

[2:20:39] Thank you, Chris. Thanks, Chris. Thank

[2:20:41] you. I will will talk to you guys on the

[2:20:42] fee structure.

[2:20:43] The next item is a reminder to amend

[2:20:45] section 9-2 of this county code to

[2:20:47] increase the membership of the downtown

[2:20:49] special the assessment district board

[2:20:51] from 9 to 15 members and to amend such

[2:20:54] membership qualifications. There will be

[2:20:55] a public hearing on April 27th, 2026.

[2:20:59] Any questions, comments?

[2:21:01] Hearing none,

[2:21:03] uh the last two items, I believe, are

[2:21:05] for executive session. However, I do

[2:21:07] want to clarify item number seven just

[2:21:09] identifies proposed settlement. I just

[2:21:11] wanted to expand that is a settlement

[2:21:13] involving

[2:21:14] um Andre Porter.

[2:21:17] Uh corporation counsel is not here to

[2:21:19] tell you and to explain that any

[2:21:20] further.

[2:21:23] I mean, but that that is a settlement

[2:21:25] with Andre Porter.

[2:21:26] Is that

[2:21:27] executive session?

[2:21:32] Is there a motion to go into executive

[2:21:34] session?

[2:21:36] So, we're going to wait for them to

[2:21:37] validate that they can. Okay. So, at

[2:21:39] this moment, I'll entertain a motion to

[2:21:41] enter executive session. So Second.

[2:21:43] All in favor? Aye. Hearing

[2:21:46] executive session, members of the public

[2:21:47] will have to

[2:21:55] » [music]

Schenectady City Council Committee Meeting FULL, April 20, 2026

Transcript