[9:12] All to order the Albemarle County Board of Supervisors

[9:15] for our September 2nd, 2020 6:01 p.m.

[9:19] meeting here in Lane Auditory him with us today.

[9:22] We have Supervisor Mike Pruitt of the Scottsville district

[9:25] supervisor and Malik of the Whitehall District supervisor

[9:29] Fred Missal of the Samuel Miller,

[9:30] District Supervisor bill of Histo, courtesy of the Ribbon

[9:34] a district supervisor, Sally Duncan of the Jack Jewett

[9:36] district, and myself supervisor Nate

[9:39] Galloway of the Road District.

[9:41] We do have our deputy county executive, Mr. Trevor Henry,

[9:46] filling in for Mr. Richardson this afternoon.

[9:48] Deputy County executive and Wall will be subbing in this evening

[9:52] later on.

[9:53] She looks thrilled and i watched I saw that look at You.

[10:00] We also have with us our board attorney and Eric our board

[10:05] clerk, Ms..

[10:05] Claudette borgerson, and our Senior Deputy clerk, Mr. Travis

[10:08] Morris, with us I want to thank our Elmore County police

[10:12] Department officers who were with us this afternoon.

[10:14] Police officer First Class Luke Keyser,

[10:17] and Officer Enzo Irizarry.

[10:19] So thank you both, gentlemen, for being with us this afternoon

[10:22] And now, if you will please rise as your able for the Pledge

[10:26] of Allegiance I pledge allegiance

[10:30] to the flag of the United states of America

[10:33] and to a republic for which it stands One nation under god,

[10:38] indivisible, with liberty and justice for all

[10:48] And we're going to now join in a moment of silence.

[10:51] And I would just take the chair's prerogative

[10:53] to ask people to keep in mind the children at the Waynesboro

[10:56] elementary School, there was an incident there.

[10:58] This just this morning very traumatic.

[11:01] And just have that whole community in your thoughts

[11:03] during this moment of silence.

[11:04] Thank you All right.

[11:25] Thank you everyone.

[11:26] On board.

[11:27] We have an agenda.

[11:29] I do not know of any changes or edits to the agenda.

[11:32] Are there any at this time?

[11:35] All right.

[11:35] Seeing none.

[11:36] Is there a motion to adopt the final agenda So moved.

[11:39] Second, all right.

[11:40] The motion has been made and accepted.

[11:41] Without objection, if the clerk will please call the roll.

[11:44] Mississippi State currently I miss Mallett.

[11:46] Yes, Mr. Missal.

[11:48] All right, Mr. Pruitt I miss Duncan.

[11:50] Yes Mr. Galloway.

[11:52] Yes Thank you.

[11:53] Board.

[11:54] All right.

[11:54] We'll move to item number five, Brief announcements

[11:57] by board members.

[11:58] Supervisor Malik you're up first today.

[12:00] Thank you very much.

[12:01] And I am scrambling to try to find the dates for the Ravenna

[12:07] solid waste authority is having their fall

[12:09] household hazardous waste and all the various components,

[12:12] mattresses tires, furniture and appliances

[12:14] and if I can find it before we're done,

[12:16] I will redo that because it is coming up in September.

[12:19] The electronic waste sign up is already full,

[12:22] but there is a waiting list.

[12:23] So one can get on that if you are interested in still giving

[12:28] it a try And I will say that last week i

[12:33] was able to attend a cyber conference over at PCC

[12:37] and so heartened to hear that the county is already doing

[12:42] through the skills of our i.t.

[12:44] Department, the top ten things that we should all

[12:47] be doing to protect ourselves against attack

[12:49] And it really takes a village every employee, everybody being

[12:54] careful with all those different two factor authentication, etc.

[12:58] Cetera to keep the great effort going

[13:01] in protecting against self-inflicted wounds

[13:04] is the number one thing we should

[13:05] be doing And news about a new partnership

[13:09] and work with PCC UVA to build what's called a cyber range.

[13:14] There's one in another of community college

[13:18] that is having great success.

[13:20] And so we're looking forward to hearing more about that.

[13:21] And i hope that they will come to the board

[13:23] and make a presentation and I will come back later

[13:26] if I can find my dates.

[13:28] Thank you very much Thank you.

[13:29] Supervisor Duncan I have nothing Supervisor Pruitt

[13:34] two very quick things to keep on your radar.

[13:37] First, really sneaking up on us is the 2026 election.

[13:42] Early voting starts on the 18th of September and will be

[13:46] at the county offices on Fifth Street.

[13:48] And will run through the 31st of October.

[13:52] The spookiest day of all, which will be

[13:55] the last day of early voting.

[13:56] And then, of course, the election.

[13:58] The following Tuesday.

[13:59] Additional the annual loop de Ville celebrating and raising

[14:03] funds for our fabulous trail network that runs around

[14:06] the city of Charlottesville through both the city

[14:08] and the county will be on the 27th of September.

[14:13] This is one of the best opportunities

[14:15] to visit and learn about the trail to celebrate it.

[14:18] There are support stations all along it.

[14:20] So if you've ever thought, boy howdy,

[14:22] I'd love to hike or run or bike over 20 miles in a day,

[14:26] but I don't know if I have the capacity

[14:28] or this is easily the best time to find that capacity

[14:30] because there's got to be someone giving you a juice

[14:33] every three miles.

[14:34] I will be there.

[14:35] It's also the best opportunity to get the coolest shirt of all

[14:38] the nonprofit shirts around in this area I just got costs.

[14:42] You like 30 bucks.

[14:43] So get on down.

[14:45] That's all I got I have never once thought

[14:48] I need to go out, walk, bike or hike for 20 miles.

[14:52] Maybe the quarter mile super visor missile.

[14:55] Thank you.

[14:56] No announcements All right.

[14:57] No more commentary from me.

[14:58] Supervisor real office?

[14:59] No.

[15:00] Currently I I ask for For what, we had a C c v v meeting,

[15:04] and I will send to the board what

[15:08] was said that we have done them and their wish

[15:11] list that might have already been sent to the board.

[15:13] But i'll be send it just in case where the pen tops

[15:16] meeting a good turnout.

[15:18] And we had parks and Rec there which

[15:21] we were very grateful for because they told us

[15:25] about things that are coming up And I

[15:27] think one of our big projects is the old Mills Trail.

[15:30] So we're we're trying to get that accomplished

[15:33] And we do have monies from the state believe it or not.

[15:37] It's a miracle.

[15:38] So we're very happy about that.

[15:40] So hopefully we can get all that completed Thank you.

[15:44] Thank you.

[15:45] You.

[15:45] Did you have your.

[15:46] I found them.

[15:47] Yeah.

[15:47] You had to make them myself.

[15:48] So has household hazardous waste.

[15:50] Those are the paints, the pesticides the chemicals

[15:53] that you've been lurking around your garage and barn.

[15:56] That is September 18 and 19th.

[15:58] And the hours are 8:30 to 4 for all the days of furniture

[16:03] and mattresses as September 26th,

[16:06] appliances October 3rd and tires the dreaded tires, October 10th.

[16:11] You don't want those lying around either because the scope

[16:15] edge of the tires holds on to rainwater

[16:16] and then the mosquitoes love it.

[16:18] And then you're in big trouble.

[16:19] So get rid of all that stuff.

[16:20] This fall.

[16:21] Thank you.

[16:21] Thank you very much.

[16:22] All right Thank you.

[16:23] Board.

[16:24] I do not have any announcements today

[16:27] that will move us to proclaim ations and recognitions.

[16:30] Item number Six, we do have a proclamation recognizing

[16:33] September as national suicide Prevention Awareness Month

[16:37] we have with us today Mike Fox of The Verge.

[16:40] He is the Virginia Chapter leader

[16:41] of Moms Demand action for Gun Sense in America

[16:44] and vice chair missile is going to read this proclamation

[16:47] as a motion Great.

[16:49] Thank you.

[16:49] I'm honored to read this.

[16:51] Happy to read this proclamation and recognize is in September is

[16:55] National suicide prevention awareness Month,

[16:57] whereas every year, 27,000 people in the United States die

[17:01] by firearm suicide an average of 718 people in Virginia die

[17:05] by firearm suicide.

[17:06] Nearly six out of every ten gun deaths in the U.S.

[17:09] are suicide aids.

[17:11] And during the last two decades, youth suicide

[17:13] has reached its highest rate.

[17:14] And.

[17:15] Whereas, Albemarle County joins in observing national suicide

[17:18] prevention Awareness Month by raising awareness

[17:20] to foster a culture of understanding and empathy

[17:23] and encourage community members to become better educated

[17:26] on the signs of suicide.

[17:27] Risk factors Elevate local suicide prevention resources

[17:31] and destigmatize conversations around mental health.

[17:34] And.

[17:34] Whereas As the 988 or sorry, 9, 8, eight suicide and crisis

[17:40] lifeline, the trevor Project and local providers

[17:43] play a helpful role in suicide prevention and mental health

[17:45] support by offering immediate confidential assistance 24 seven

[17:50] to people in suicide or crisis or emotional distress.

[17:53] And.

[17:54] Whereas, Albemarle County has played an important role

[17:56] in suicide prevention by local advocates lawmakers

[17:59] and University of Virginia law students

[18:01] successfully fished but pushing for substantial risk order

[18:04] reforms The success of the Human Services Alternative

[18:08] response Team, or Heart and the school board

[18:10] secure for firearm storage resolution

[18:13] serving as a model for other localities And.

[18:16] Whereas, There are many low gate organizations,

[18:19] many local organizations, including moms demand Action

[18:22] for Gun Sense in America Students Demand action The

[18:26] American Foundation for Suicide prevention,

[18:29] the PLM Legacy Foundation, Regent ten

[18:32] and the National Alliance on Mental Illness dedicated

[18:35] to saving lives and bringing hope through research, education

[18:39] policies, advocacy and resources for those who have lost someone

[18:43] to suicide, who struggle with suicidal ideation

[18:47] or have otherwise been affected by suicide.

[18:50] Now, therefore be it proclaimed that we the Albemarle

[18:53] County Board of Supervisors, do hereby

[18:55] recognize suicide as a public health problem and designate.

[18:59] September 20th 26 as national suicide Prevention Awareness

[19:03] Month Signed the second day of September 20, 26.

[19:07] Chair Ned Galloway Second, all right.

[19:10] The motion has been made and seconded without objection,

[19:13] if the clerk will please call the roll missile piece.

[19:15] So currently I miss Malik.

[19:17] Yes, Mr. Missile I. Mr. Pruitt.

[19:19] All right.

[19:20] Ms..

[19:20] Duncan.

[19:20] Yes, Mr. Galloway Yes.

[19:23] All right.

[19:23] Thank you.

[19:24] Board Mr. Fox, we'd like to invite you up to the podium.

[19:26] You're welcome to make some remarks.

[19:29] And then the supervisors will probably make some remarks

[19:31] and then we'll bring the proclamation down.

[19:34] Thank you.

[19:35] You, Mr. Chairman.

[19:36] Supervisor.

[19:37] Mr. Alan all of you, for your support

[19:39] and recognizing that suicide prevention is

[19:41] part of creating safer and healthier communities

[19:44] Suicide is preventable Suicide is preventable.

[19:48] The vast majority of people who survive a suicide attempt do not

[19:51] go on to die by suicide Keeping people safe

[19:55] means taking seriously the moments when someone

[19:57] is in crisis and doing what we can

[19:59] to put time and distance between that crisis and lethal means.

[20:04] This includes our kids suicide is the second leading

[20:07] cause of death among young people ages 10 to 24.

[20:10] In the United States, suicide among pre-teens, pre-teens

[20:15] has risen sharply over the past two decades.

[20:18] Whether it's passing new laws in Richmond

[20:20] or investing in community based solutions here at home.

[20:23] Every act of kindness and every connection can make a difference

[20:27] and save a life Thank you again for your commitment

[20:29] and reaffirming that our community can

[20:31] be a place where people know they are seeing valued

[20:34] and not alone Thank you, sir.

[20:38] We'll see.

[20:39] Go through the supervisor, see what comments we have.

[20:41] Supervisor Malik.

[20:42] Well, I just want to, again, thank my constituents

[20:45] in those from the other rest of the county for all the work

[20:49] that you do behind the scenes to build those bridges that you

[20:52] just been describing, because the sense of hopelessness

[20:55] that people feel because they don't think there's

[20:58] anyone else out there who might understand really

[21:00] makes it worse.

[21:01] And access to the guns makes it.

[21:02] Final So I thank you again.

[21:04] Thank you, ma'am.

[21:05] Supervisor Duncan I just want to thank you for the work on this.

[21:10] It's you know, obviously very important.

[21:11] So thank you for bringing this to us.

[21:13] And also for us to do.

[21:16] Thank you.

[21:16] Supervisor Pruitt thank you so much for your advocacy

[21:20] on this issue.

[21:21] It's something that I feel touches

[21:23] me very directly as someone who is both a gun owner

[21:25] and struggles with depression as someone who has served

[21:29] on a ship where everyone carried firearms, sometimes

[21:33] in the course of their duty, and we also had processes

[21:36] because in the sector of the Navy,

[21:38] I worked in suicidal ideation was quite common We had

[21:42] processes where you could just walk

[21:44] into your commanding officers office and say Hey, sir,

[21:48] I have reason to be concerned about Ensign Schmuck Catelli

[21:52] wanting to do self harm.

[21:53] I would ask that you temporarily suspend this gun

[21:55] qualification of the army.

[21:57] And it happens And that was done.

[22:00] And it's a fairly standard process.

[22:04] I think it's safe Really simple.

[22:07] Modeling of how we can use policy

[22:09] to make it so that we can keep our communities

[22:12] safe without harming people's rights.

[22:14] And I'm really grateful for the kind of advocacy

[22:16] that you have led with moms that has made tools

[22:19] like this available here in Virginia Thank you, sir.

[22:23] Supervisor Missile.

[22:24] Yeah, I just echo the thanks and acknowledge the importance

[22:28] of this work I've had three cloves friends

[22:32] and colleagues in the last ten years

[22:34] who have directly experienced suicide of a family member

[22:38] And it's just you know, the lasting impact

[22:41] the lasting, I don't know, just pain that it brings

[22:44] is just mind blowing.

[22:46] It's just horrible.

[22:47] So critically important.

[22:48] And thank you for the work you're doing.

[22:50] Thank you sir.

[22:51] Supervisor of pistol.

[22:52] Currently Please continue to do your good work and your efforts

[22:56] because when someone commits suicide,

[23:00] that leaves friends and family members wondering why they never

[23:03] get that answer.

[23:04] Really?

[23:05] Why did that happen?

[23:06] So anything we can do to help mitigate that and help

[23:12] other people.

[23:14] But i do have one question for you.

[23:16] You mentioned pre-teens, which really disturbs me

[23:20] And is that it's been a direct link between that and maybe

[23:25] social media.

[23:27] Do you know based on what I read,

[23:29] it's like during the pandemic and all the levels of temper

[23:32] and off a little bit, they are still

[23:33] climbing some I think that that could be a contributor

[23:37] contributor based on what I've heard from some of our community

[23:40] partners and experts in the field

[23:42] that people might see that as they either

[23:47] gained so much stress from it and bullying

[23:49] and that sort of thing.

[23:50] Cyber bullying and all that, that that's the reaction to it.

[23:54] So it.

[23:56] It's possible Thank you.

[23:58] You.

[23:58] And thank you for what you do.

[24:00] Sure Thank you.

[24:01] Yes.

[24:01] Thank you, Mr. Fox and I join in,

[24:03] endorse everything that other supervisors have said.

[24:05] Appreciate it.

[24:06] Occurs to me, like I teach a course, on Tuesday

[24:09] nights and college level and it's really just a

[24:14] how do you go through class?

[24:15] And one of the things.

[24:16] It's like, don't wait till you're either in failure

[24:19] mode or crisis mode.

[24:20] Ask you got to ask early And this is just stuff

[24:22] about maybe being behind on schoolwork or things like that.

[24:25] But as you're talking, it's the same thing.

[24:28] It's not just it's easier to ask when

[24:30] you start to have the confusion or the struggle about things

[24:33] than it is when you're in a failure mode or crisis mode

[24:36] So I appreciate all the efforts you organizations do

[24:39] to help encourage that.

[24:40] But it's not just put on the individual who's

[24:42] feeling confused It's also contingent on the rest of us

[24:45] that if we're seeing somebody having a struggle

[24:47] or confusion to reach out and go, Hey are you okay?

[24:50] And what's going on?

[24:51] Before they get to failure and crisis mode?

[24:53] Because it's just more difficult to act rationally when you're

[24:58] in crisis mode for everybody.

[25:00] Yeah.

[25:01] So just kudos to all the education

[25:03] you're putting out there around the issue,

[25:05] but also reminding everybody that, hey

[25:08] ask because there is help out there and check in

[25:11] on people because we can also provide that help to folks.

[25:14] So thank you So thank you.

[25:15] The vice chair will bring the proclamation down for you

[25:26] This is thank you again OK Board We're

[25:38] going to go to item seven public comment

[25:40] on matters previously considered or currently pending

[25:43] before the board.

[25:44] Other than scheduled for public hearings.

[25:46] Looks like we have some folks signed up.

[25:47] So vice chair missile will take us through the procedures

[25:51] and then lead us through our speakers.

[25:53] Happy to.

[25:54] Looks like we have no one on line today

[25:58] so I will read the in person only during this portion

[26:01] of the meeting.

[26:02] Individual is may address the board regarding matters

[26:04] previously considered by the Board

[26:05] are currently pending before the Board

[26:07] other than an item scheduled for public hearing,

[26:09] speakers are limited to one opportunity

[26:11] of up to three minutes to ensure equal treatment and courtesy

[26:15] for all speakers.

[26:15] The board requests that the following guidelines be observed

[26:18] Please state your name.

[26:19] And if you live in Albemarle County or magisterial district

[26:21] comments should be directed to the board

[26:23] as a whole Written statements or supporting materials

[26:26] may be provided to the clerk if representing a group

[26:28] or organization you may ask others present to raise

[26:31] their hands and recognize the speakers

[26:33] may not share unused time with another speaker Back and forth

[26:36] debate is not permitted.

[26:37] And speakers should not speak from their seat

[26:39] or out of turn the podium timer will guide your time green.

[26:42] Indicate your time has begun.

[26:44] Yellow means one minute remains and to read

[26:46] indicate your time has expired.

[26:48] All comments are recorded live streamed

[26:50] and published on the county website.

[26:52] The sign up period is closed once public comment begins

[26:56] the podium is adjustable.

[26:57] Speakers may raise or lower to they're

[26:59] able to speak directly into the microphone We

[27:02] will begin with Mr. Rick Randolph

[27:13] Good afternoon, Members of the board.

[27:15] Kirk Randolph, who reside at 3191 Derby Road,

[27:18] Keswick is both discussed for supervisor and Planning

[27:22] commissioner I continually advocated

[27:24] for public accountability by Habitat regarding

[27:27] both held county supported Two funds are utilized

[27:31] and held Predevelopment South ward residents are affected

[27:34] by this unique large redevelopment project

[27:37] this afternoon you have before you a performance

[27:40] agreement for phase two of the Southwood neighborhood

[27:42] Model District Three of you have seen

[27:45] a mostly similar code of development

[27:47] before when it was on the 12, 1521 board concerning agenda.

[27:52] The rest of you i recognize, may not

[27:55] have this room to bring to the attention of those three of you

[27:59] who probably have not that the original progression

[28:02] of the redevelopment and phase two was to begin in block 18

[28:06] and then proceed in the clockwise direction

[28:09] sweeping the land to turn east to 17, 22 26 and 25,

[28:16] and then end in block 34 a drive through south yesterday showed

[28:22] that many of those blocks are being worked on simultaneously

[28:26] where one wonders are the resulting displaced residents

[28:31] being housed County staff has indicated that 81 original

[28:35] families were rehoused by June 26th of this year If we used

[28:40] to accept this statistical average of five persons per

[28:43] family that would yield some 405 persons for 105 persons only

[28:49] represents 31% of South Woods original 1300 residents,

[28:55] where those other residents today,

[28:59] because they can't all be in.

[29:00] Southwick Those anybody want to know where they are ?

[29:04] Does anybody really care?

[29:07] Those are all the morals public deserve to know.

[29:11] The request today is for the county

[29:13] to commit to providing habitat with 15.75 million

[29:18] and to funds as real estate turns over in South Portland

[29:22] as market appreciation occurs.

[29:24] So the market value of homes there has a board same

[29:27] projection of the amount of the capture property tax revenue

[29:32] that will accumulate in a county account and is then available

[29:36] to be pulled back into southward to help pay for public

[29:40] improvements Site cleanup utilities and roads, etc..

[29:44] So if the public deserve to see this projection

[29:47] and how about a conservative projection

[29:50] of when those property taxes will be directed solely

[29:53] to the county's budget and will no longer be reserved?

[29:56] Excuse of Lee for Southwick And finally, by what percentage

[30:01] are the counties revenues projected

[30:04] to increase as a result of the capture of those now

[30:07] roads reserve funds?

[30:10] I submit the board and taxpayers deserve

[30:13] to have this information Thank you.

[30:15] Thank you.

[30:17] Pam Reilly good afternoon to providers.

[30:28] I'm Pam Reilly and i live at 1375 Mill

[30:31] Drive in the Scottsville magisterial district.

[30:34] I served on the Scottsville planning commission

[30:36] during the Phase one review and approval,

[30:40] and I care deeply about southwards redevelopment in part

[30:43] because my career was in nonprofit affordable housing

[30:46] and community reinvestment.

[30:49] And you all know phase one was approved

[30:50] by the county in the June 2019 and a cornerstone

[30:54] of that approval was a commitment of no displacement

[30:58] of the residents living in South Would

[31:00] because some of the Planning commission,

[31:02] the board of Supervisors, had grave concerns

[31:04] about potential displacement of residents.

[31:07] The Board of Supervisors required habitat

[31:09] to develop a non displacement plan

[31:11] and to report on any relocation or displacement of the residents

[31:14] as did the Board of Supervisors.

[31:17] Receive written reports on resident relocation

[31:20] and displacement during the past seven years.

[31:22] Have you all been given written information

[31:25] about where the legacy residents are today

[31:27] as part of your review for the funding for Phase two?

[31:31] If not I would urge you to review this information

[31:34] before committing an additional almost 16 million in Phase two.

[31:39] I've been trying to obtain this information personally

[31:41] since last February when I requested the land displacement

[31:45] data from Dr. Pathy and after several followups

[31:48] on my part and no response, by July,

[31:50] I fortuitously ran into county executive Jeff Richardson

[31:55] and I asked him to please investigate this matter.

[31:58] He got right on it.

[31:59] And Ms..

[32:00] The chief human resources officer

[32:02] contacted me and she sent me copies

[32:04] of habitats that were provided to them in terms of the draw

[32:09] downs for phase one.

[32:10] And that contained information about the number

[32:12] of affordable units developed, the number of units

[32:15] purchased or rented by Southwood families.

[32:18] But there's no information regarding the families that

[32:20] may have been otherwise relocated or displaced

[32:24] other than the comments that maybe some families

[32:27] chose to leave on their own accord

[32:30] It's quite possible that the county does not

[32:32] have this information and that the non displacement data

[32:35] or reports were never submitted.

[32:37] Habitat did provide the non displacement plan to the county

[32:40] and to the state as part of the requirement for state funding.

[32:43] They have.

[32:44] We housing specialist with and they

[32:46] works with all the residents and the habitat staff

[32:48] is responsible for maintaining secure records

[32:51] for all households and the uniform relocation Act

[32:54] assessment forms that they submitted to the state.

[32:56] They describe their relocation record

[32:58] keeping to keep copies of relocation advisory notes

[33:01] offers a relocation assistance claims of once appeals, etc.

[33:05] So this data should be available to the county

[33:07] and to the public the taxpayers of the county

[33:11] deserve to know what happened to the original residents

[33:13] of Southwood Please obtain this information and review it.

[33:17] Thank you for listening to my concerns today.

[33:20] Thank you Thank you.

[33:21] And last on our list is Peter Kraus Good afternoon.

[33:35] I'm Peter Krebs from the Piedmont Environmental council

[33:38] and I'm also on the board of the County Parks Foundation

[33:41] The administrator follows Thrive in a river

[33:43] from the tail park along the edge of town tops

[33:47] to where it ends currently near the hospital.

[33:50] It's a beautiful place to walk, bike or run,

[33:53] and it's easily accessible to thousands of people.

[33:57] They've been long standing plans to extend this trail for miles

[34:00] further into the county.

[34:02] Connecting with an existing trail in Glenmore

[34:05] to create an unbroken ten eight mile greenway

[34:09] This will be stunning and it'll be really unrivaled anywhere

[34:13] in the state It's so exciting Much of the land in between

[34:19] is owned by and Trello, but the county

[34:21] has the right of way easement to make

[34:24] the trail during the rezoning.

[34:27] There is a timeline limit placed on that easement and work has

[34:31] to begin by 2027, which is right around the corner.

[34:37] I'm excited to say that it looks like the county is going

[34:40] to meet that deadline and start work next year There's

[34:45] a small reference in today's consent

[34:47] agenda about a grant from DCR to pay for this expense

[34:51] And although we don't know yet whether the county will receive

[34:55] the grant.

[34:56] All indications are very good and whether or not

[35:01] we get the grant The county staff has

[35:04] been very creative in identifying funding sources,

[35:08] including major pledges from the parks

[35:10] Foundation and many other groups and organizations.

[35:14] Also to their credit, they've found solutions

[35:16] to some of the problems that have really

[35:18] vexed a whole generation.

[35:20] Write the planners such as How do we get past the railroad?

[35:23] How do we get permission from the Udot?

[35:25] All of those plausible answers and it

[35:28] looks very promising i invite the community

[35:37] to come see what is possible.

[35:39] The Parks Foundation and P.S. Are co-hosting a kickoff party

[35:43] for the old Mills Trail as part of the In Basin Conference

[35:47] on September 30.

[35:50] So it's after the conference.

[35:52] It will be from 4 to 7.

[35:53] It's free, open to the public I've

[35:55] spoken to a couple of our new residents.

[35:58] They're super excited So they're actually hosting the party

[36:01] at their clubhouse, which is across the street

[36:03] from the hospital.

[36:05] So if we get the grant it'll be a great kickstart,

[36:08] but it won't be the end of the project quite the contrary.

[36:11] So if you're thinking about upcoming coming budget,

[36:14] please include monies for a greenway like the old Mills

[36:17] Trail, which contribute to quality of life for residents

[36:21] and also to the county's billion dollar business economy.

[36:25] So excited.

[36:26] And I look forward to seeing you on the 30th,

[36:29] if not sooner Thank you.

[36:31] I have flyers.

[36:32] I'll leave with this one.

[36:34] Appreciate it.

[36:34] Thank you.

[36:35] And we do have one speaker who has joined us online,

[36:38] and that is Pat sale in Houston Is Houston, are you there ?

[36:54] Come on back I don't think so.

[36:59] There you may begin smoking Good afternoon.

[37:07] Are you there now?

[37:16] All right.

[37:17] Last call.

[37:17] This is why I cannot go of this.

[37:20] All right.

[37:21] We got change Good afternoon.

[37:23] Are you there?

[37:25] I hope so.

[37:25] There you are Good afternoon.

[37:27] You can.

[37:27] You can begin when you're ready.

[37:29] Yeah.

[37:30] Thank you very much.

[37:32] There was a delay in that permission coming through.

[37:34] Thank you very much.

[37:35] And it was very interesting to hear the previous speaker

[37:38] about being able to use trails and have more development

[37:42] of the trail out there.

[37:44] My name is Pat in Houston.

[37:45] I live on Sugar Ridge road.

[37:47] And until recently, our understanding

[37:50] is that we were on a no paved list We've just

[37:54] heard there is some looking at you know, promoting

[37:58] the rural qualities of Albemarle County

[38:00] by preserving some of the key rural

[38:03] and paved roads maybe dispersed throughout the region.

[38:06] We aren't somewhere that we can really have trails

[38:10] except for going up into hiking areas

[38:13] But it is a very special region that we're

[38:14] at that people come to for a walking rain bike

[38:19] and and it really is a neighborhood of walkers.

[38:24] It's like a little community We live on this dirt road.

[38:27] And our farmhouse is so close to the road.

[38:29] We could almost shake hands with somebody walking by.

[38:32] When we came to love the nature and the surroundings.

[38:35] But we got to know it's a very mixed bag of experiences.

[38:38] And there are many downsides.

[38:40] And I acknowledge that on the list of which is not

[38:43] to promise when it's icy or all the credible dust

[38:47] we can get into our home, even though there

[38:50] is that we are in a section that we have observed how people

[38:55] really try and speed coming down the hill from the direction

[38:58] of sugar hollow.

[38:59] And I think there is a high risk for losing this ability

[39:03] to have as a walking and bicycling

[39:06] and running area should be paved even if there's signs posted.

[39:12] I'm even somebody who can be guilty of going

[39:16] faster than opposed to areas, especially if i'm

[39:20] thinking my needs to hurry.

[39:22] Are outweighing the speed limit So I do confess

[39:25] that it's a natural thing that people do.

[39:28] I think that having people speed down at 50 and 55 miles an hour,

[39:33] if they're not slowed by the gravel and dust and dirt

[39:41] is going to greatly change an impact and the ability

[39:44] for people to have this as an area,

[39:48] not just where people live here, but people come and train here.

[39:53] There are runners groups that come in, small groups and also

[39:56] large groups.

[39:57] We also still occasionally have horses

[40:00] that come along this road.

[40:03] I would doubt that would convenient

[40:04] be continued From what I've seen, the narrow country

[40:08] roads that have become paved the that the edges of them

[40:13] are hard to even find a place to walk on

[40:16] And as far as being safer during ice storms,

[40:21] my scariest moments on the road have been when somebody is

[40:24] coming down toward my road toward my car

[40:27] from the opposite direction, and they're losing control

[40:29] from excess speed.

[40:31] I don't think paving is going to be a great and addition

[40:36] to traveling with Ice storms.

[40:39] There are so many trees that come down Ma'am,

[40:42] your time has expired.

[40:43] If you were good clue.

[40:44] Thank you so much.

[40:46] That concludes our list.

[40:48] All right.

[40:49] Thank you to those who came out to provide public comment today.

[40:53] Board We will move to item number eight.

[40:55] Our concern at agenda.

[40:57] Any items that need to be pulled from consent.

[41:00] Is there a motion to adopt the consent agenda?

[41:03] So moved.

[41:04] Second.

[41:05] All right.

[41:05] The motion has been made and seconded Without objection,

[41:07] if the clerk will please call the roll missile piece.

[41:10] Currently Hi, Ms..

[41:11] Mallett.

[41:12] Yes Mr. Missal.

[41:13] Hi, Mr. Prewitt.

[41:15] Hi, Ms..

[41:15] Duncan.

[41:16] Yes, Mr. Galloway.

[41:17] Yes.

[41:18] All right.

[41:19] Thank you for that motion passes.

[41:22] And we will now move to item number nine.

[41:25] This is an action item Habitat for Humanity,

[41:28] Southwest phase two performance agreement to Mr. Sumner.

[41:31] Ms..

[41:32] Demick joining us.

[41:32] Good afternoon Good.

[41:35] Good afternoon Pull up the presentation Go.

[41:52] Excellent Good afternoon, Chair.

[41:57] Galloway and members of the board.

[41:58] Kathy Dimock, Chief humans services Officer.

[42:01] And I'm here with my very competent colleague,

[42:03] Jacob sumner, your chief financial Officer,

[42:07] to seek permission for the county executive

[42:09] to enter into a performance agreement with Habitat

[42:12] for Humanity of Greater Charlottesville for phase

[42:14] Two of the Southwood neighborhood Redevelopment

[42:17] Project.

[42:18] Also here in the audience is Dan rosensweig, president and CEO

[42:22] of habitat for Humanity of Greater Charlottesville in case

[42:25] there are questions, Mr. Sumner and I are unable to answer we

[42:29] understand the board's interest and in incentivizing

[42:32] the development of affordable housing

[42:34] and ensuring accountability for the use of public funds in such

[42:38] a pursuit.

[42:39] We are confident that the components of the performance

[42:42] agreement serve both of these interests

[42:44] as well We will review the project

[42:49] history of previous agreements, detail the conditions,

[42:52] restrictions and expectations and a performance

[42:55] agreement for Phase two.

[42:57] Provide time for questions or feedback

[42:59] and ask that you consider the resolution that

[43:02] was attachment to and your executive summary agenda

[43:05] materials for this item As you are aware, habitat for Humanity

[43:11] purchased the Hundreds acre Southwood neighborhood

[43:14] property in 2007 in an effort to prevent a mass tenant

[43:18] displacement Habitat organized a resident led initiative to build

[43:23] plans for an inclusive, mixed income development

[43:26] with a range of housing types and neighborhood

[43:29] amenities including community gathering places.

[43:32] Supports for small business operations, parks and playing

[43:36] fields Albemarle County and the Economic Development Authority

[43:42] entered into a performance agreement

[43:43] with Habitat for humanity to redevelop the village's one

[43:47] and two as part of phase one.

[43:49] On July First, 2019, Habitat has moved on.

[43:55] Phase two, which is now in development and constitutes

[43:58] villages three through 11 and completes the project.

[44:03] This is a complex and complicated development process,

[44:06] particularly because of the neighborhood residents remained

[44:09] in the park throughout the development process Phase two,

[44:15] including the redevelopment of 86 acres with a thousand

[44:19] dwelling units, includes single fan blades attached and detached

[44:23] homes and multifamily housing The redevelopment proposal was

[44:27] reviewed by the Planning Commission on April 26th, 2022,

[44:31] and approved by the board on November 2 2022.

[44:36] Mr. Sumner will now review the framework of the performance

[44:39] agreement, including conditions, obligations and compliance

[44:42] expectations Thank you, Kathy.

[44:47] Good afternoon.

[44:47] My name is Jacob Sumner.

[44:48] I'm Chief Financial Officer for the county estate commission.

[44:52] We are here today asking the board

[44:53] to allow staff to draft and develop and execute

[44:55] a performance agreement.

[44:57] But Habitat that supports phase two of the Southwood development

[45:00] The maximum amount of financial incentives attached to the forms

[45:03] Agreement is $15.75 million, spread out over 20 years.

[45:09] The funding for the incentive will

[45:10] be derived from the incremental increase in the real estate

[45:13] property tax generated from phase two of the project.

[45:18] As this agreement is performance based,

[45:20] there are several conditions and obligations

[45:22] will look for habitat to meet.

[45:24] This would include that at minimum habitat excuse

[45:27] me, would construct at least 227 affordable units

[45:30] at or below 80%.

[45:32] AMI.

[45:33] This would also require non displacement

[45:35] of original Southwood residents In addition,

[45:38] we would require a 40 year period

[45:39] of affordability for home ownership units

[45:41] and a 30 year period of affordability for rental units.

[45:45] Habitat would need to provided plan

[45:47] insuring income diversity and community integration

[45:49] within their development.

[45:50] Along the way, Habitat has shown an interest

[45:53] in developing community center within phase two

[45:55] and could be contingent upon access

[45:57] to outside funding availability.

[46:00] As required.

[46:01] As required in the development habitat

[46:02] will be responsible for owning all the infrastructure

[46:05] necessary to complete the project From a compliance

[46:09] perspective, we would require habitat

[46:11] to provide bi annual reports on the development, including

[46:13] their construction progress.

[46:15] Any barriers or delays that they're experiencing and metrics

[46:18] on the number of units developed rented or sold.

[46:21] There would also need to remain in good standing

[46:23] with the state and the county.

[46:24] Regarding project activities related

[46:26] to permitting zoning and building code regulations

[46:30] and be current on any applicable taxes or fees.

[46:33] The financial incentive will be paid out twice a year,

[46:36] 45 days after the real estate tax due date.

[46:39] The deadline for the required reporting

[46:41] would be before the tax due date to ensure compliance

[46:43] is met prior to disbursing disbursement of the incentive

[46:46] payment From a budgetary perspective,

[46:51] face two would increase future real property tax revenues.

[46:54] The incentive payments would be funded

[46:55] by the incremental increase in the real property taxes

[46:59] and both the revenues incentive payments will be incorporated

[47:01] into future budgets So these are the parameters

[47:06] that we are looking at to include

[47:08] in the performance agreement committee of the board.

[47:10] So chooses to move forward with forms

[47:12] agreement that has been requested today.

[47:15] And KKR are here available to answer any questions

[47:18] that you all have.

[47:19] All right.

[47:20] Thank you both.

[47:21] Supervisor Malik I wanted to thank you

[47:24] for your very complete answers to my questions

[47:27] from earlier, because I'm one, I needed more details

[47:31] than what was in the staff report

[47:32] And I'm really grateful for all the digging in that you

[47:34] have done and will do.

[47:35] And what you describe here this morning

[47:37] to make sure that everybody is going

[47:40] to be held to a timetable of, you

[47:42] know, just not just one side, because they

[47:44] can't operate without us.

[47:45] And we can't operate without them.

[47:47] So we're all in this together and i guess later,

[47:51] we can get a formal answer on the displacement question

[47:56] because i think there is one.

[47:58] Thank you All right.

[48:00] Supervisor Duncan, no questions.

[48:02] Supervisor Pruitt ?

[48:05] Yes So the kind of crux of this is around the tiff structure,

[48:10] and it's occurring to me that doing it

[48:13] as we are in multiple phases and with a very public process.

[48:16] I'm curious is there is the total value of the tiff not

[48:21] kind of altered by the publicity of it, as in.

[48:25] We are raising the base at which it's

[48:27] going to be assessed at before actually starting that process.

[48:30] Does that make sense ?

[48:33] We wouldn't be raising the base.

[48:35] I think the I guess I'm saying that the fact that it is known

[48:39] that there is going to be a a development here could raise

[48:45] the assessed value of that development even before ground

[48:48] is broken Does that make sense ?

[48:51] I understand where you're going, but when

[48:53] we would look at the property and the parcels, when we're

[48:55] dealing the real estate assessment each year,

[48:57] it would be looked at the market in totality

[49:00] And so when we look at real estate assessments,

[49:03] you look at more of our neighborhoods and neighborhood

[49:05] districts and so it is a little more

[49:09] geographic than the neighborhood of Southwood itself proper.

[49:14] So I would suspect that the the risk reassessment

[49:21] or the assessment of those properties

[49:22] will be based on the current conditions

[49:24] and as the four phases are built out over time,

[49:27] you know, those assessments will change

[49:29] and those will grow as they continue

[49:31] to grow from either raw or undeveloped land to more on land

[49:37] will have improvements on them.

[49:38] Got it.

[49:40] I'm also realizing I don't know, the structure of this discussion

[49:45] that literally the structure of the agenda item before us.

[49:48] In my mind, I might be thinking of it

[49:51] similar to a hearing for a zoning approval.

[49:54] It's not right.

[49:56] There is not going to be.

[49:57] Now we're turning it over to the applicant to speak.

[50:00] I think this is structurally the only time

[50:02] we're really going to have questions and discussions.

[50:05] I mention that because there's previously a they were concerned

[50:09] about displacement but maybe we'll hear from that later.

[50:12] I'm not sure there is another time to hear for it.

[50:15] So I guess I would just ask kind of generally, could you could

[50:18] you help characterize and respond

[50:20] to so the question about the current status of reporting

[50:23] related to displacement of the previous phase

[50:26] whether or not there's any contemplated changes to that

[50:29] and whether or not there's any concerns

[50:31] that staff is seeing on that.

[50:32] And that was three questions.

[50:33] Sorry I'm able to answer many of those questions,

[50:38] but there are detailed that I'm able to answer at this time,

[50:43] though i suspect Mr. Rosenzweig has those answers.

[50:46] So if there's a mechanism for recognizing

[50:49] him to answer those questions that would certainly

[50:52] provide a more fulsome answer.

[50:54] We have the county has received all

[50:56] of the required reporting around displacement and status

[51:00] of phase one, sufficient to satisfy

[51:04] the distribution of the funds both the granting of funds

[51:06] and the the real site tax based ones.

[51:12] So we have certainly been satisfied with what we've heard.

[51:16] I understand that Habitat is required

[51:19] to maintain individual and non displacement

[51:22] records for every individual who is in the park,

[51:25] but they are not required to distribute those to us.

[51:28] And so they're required to have them.

[51:30] And I understand they could make them available for the county

[51:33] to see.

[51:33] That is not that was not a component of phase One's

[51:36] performance agreement nor is it a component of our proposed

[51:39] Phase two agreement, we have no concerns

[51:42] on this issue I guess I might also ask the Chair if it would

[51:51] be appropriate to recognize Mr. Rosenzweig

[51:53] for any additional information he might want to add

[51:55] on this question If there's no objection by a supervisor,

[51:58] it's appropriate since the questions raised

[52:03] and the answer could be no further comment.

[52:05] I don't want to ask you to provide information

[52:09] that you don't have or don't want to provide.

[52:11] Have you ever heard me say no comment and mr. Rosensweig,

[52:14] before again, I mean, for the record

[52:16] we have other instances where there have been action

[52:18] items before us, including homestays where we've

[52:20] allowed folks to come up and speak as long

[52:22] as the board allows them.

[52:23] So you're also.

[52:24] Thank you, sir.

[52:25] I think I appreciate that.

[52:26] I'm Dan Rosensweig.

[52:26] In the presidency of Habitat.

[52:28] Make sure you maybe raise that up.

[52:29] Dan, you it might be.

[52:30] There's a button on the there's a button on the left below.

[52:34] So.

[52:35] Oh, yeah it's pretty cool.

[52:37] Unless I broke it before the meeting

[52:39] when I love that because my back always hurts.

[52:41] After speaking.

[52:42] I'm Dan Rosensweig, president and CEO of Habitat for Humanity

[52:45] of Greater Charlottesville.

[52:46] I really appreciate you inviting me up to clarify

[52:49] and I appreciate the staff for all the time.

[52:50] They've put in not just to clarify these questions,

[52:53] but in putting together the agreement that we feel very,

[52:56] very good about in terms of non displacement,

[52:59] trying to follow the speakers.

[53:01] So that I could address them directly with facts.

[53:05] I had a hard time following those.

[53:08] The numbers and the logic of the first speaker

[53:10] didn't I just I can't say I can address that.

[53:13] The second speaker talked about requirements

[53:17] that in our an agreement that was approved by the county

[53:21] and by HUD about what non what constitutes non displacement.

[53:25] It defines things like persons non displaced etc.

[53:28] It's very, very granular and as Kathy said,

[53:32] we do have a requirement to keep a file and detailed records

[53:36] on everything that happens with families, whether they

[53:39] stay or go.

[53:39] And we have those.

[53:40] And we have no reporting requirement.

[53:42] When we were talking to the county director of housing years

[53:46] ago about what the report should look like,

[53:48] we asked, what do you want to include And one of the things

[53:52] that you'll notice if you see it is that in the reporting that's

[53:54] now required, there is a segment on reporting on families who've

[53:58] been rehoused at Southwood So I can give you

[54:01] some facts around that.

[54:02] And phase one which is 19% of the land mass

[54:06] we have rehoused 89 families from Southwood

[54:10] or 29% of the families who are originally living there.

[54:13] And so we keep track of that as we move through the project.

[54:16] We always want to make sure that there's less land use than there

[54:20] is or there's more capacity to rehouse people

[54:23] as we go through the process There

[54:25] was a question in the first comment.

[54:27] And we have had zero involuntary displacements

[54:31] so not a single family has been in that has been in

[54:34] voluntarily displaced.

[54:35] And as I said, we are happy to share

[54:37] any of that information with the county either as part of this

[54:42] or outside of this.

[54:43] That's fine The the other thing that was brought up

[54:49] was the this question of where are

[54:50] the families As you all know, there was intensive sewer.

[54:54] Great or septic degradation in a section of the park.

[54:58] That was phase two.

[54:59] And so as we were developing phase one,

[55:03] we needed to move some people from that section

[55:06] on an emergency basis within the park, which

[55:08] we did most of those families were able to move either remove

[55:11] their trailers or we were able to purchase a trailer

[55:14] and put it on a pad that we reconstitute it or we purchased

[55:19] back trailers and moved on.

[55:20] But everybody was temporarily rehoused and then apart

[55:22] from just a handful of earlier adopters, the first families

[55:26] that moved in the vast majority of the 89 families

[55:29] who are in there are from the next sections of redevelopment

[55:32] So they've all any area that's been redeveloped,

[55:35] they're either in homes in phase one now,

[55:38] or the temporarily rehoused onsite at somewhere else.

[55:43] We have an 85% stay rate right now.

[55:45] That means that that 85% of the people who

[55:49] were legacy residents, the park who when it came time

[55:52] for their segment of the park to be redeveloped

[55:56] they've elected to stay in there they're

[55:57] staying 15% of the people who have left for a various reasons.

[56:01] Some people just move right.

[56:04] But we've documented all of that that 85% city rate is

[56:11] is a national record for that.

[56:14] The HUD's averages are about for hope.

[56:17] Six projects that were 13% of people staying across all three

[56:22] redevelopment projects in the nation

[56:23] at somewhere between the data is a little sketchy

[56:25] but it's between like 13 and 29% or something like that.

[56:30] So an average of about 20%.

[56:31] So 85% of the people are staying.

[56:34] So we feel very good about it.

[56:36] We're happy to make anything else available.

[56:38] I'm happy to answer any more of your questions

[56:40] The 85% I'm sorry, but is that for the aggregate

[56:44] of the entire community or is that for the components that

[56:47] are currently or have already seen redevelopment Yeah.

[56:51] So there comes a time when we have

[56:53] to redevelop a section of the park where people are.

[56:56] And so people have about a 3 or 4

[56:58] year runway between when we know that we're

[57:00] going to develop that.

[57:01] And when we actually start to develop that And so we

[57:04] bring them in, the first thing that they do

[57:06] is they meet with financial coaches.

[57:07] We get a sense of what they want,

[57:09] not what they can afford now, but what

[57:11] they might be able to afford.

[57:12] And three years from now then they

[57:14] go through a community design process.

[57:16] So those the families from that section

[57:18] of the park work with our designers

[57:21] to design their neighborhood and then the work begins.

[57:24] Then they start working one on one with our financial coaches

[57:27] to get them to a place where they want to be.

[57:29] So they can buy the product that they

[57:31] want when their neighborhood is developed So about 3 or 4 years

[57:34] later, after that, they move.

[57:36] So the 85% is based on the people

[57:39] who have had that have been at that threshold

[57:43] where the first question we say is, do you want to stay or not?

[57:45] Right.

[57:46] And if they don't want to stay, then we

[57:48] work with them to figure out timing.

[57:49] And if they want our help and Rehousing

[57:51] we provide free housing assistance

[57:53] And if they do want a stay, then they

[57:55] work towards mostly homeownership

[57:57] because 80% of the 85% are staying

[58:00] as homeowners or in an affordable rentals

[58:03] and well built, we build affordable rentals as well.

[58:05] Thank you.

[58:06] I think that answers all my questions

[58:07] and that would have been my understanding.

[58:09] The answer to that But, you know,

[58:11] the i think this is kind of the one part

[58:14] of this cycle where it's our job to be quite cynical.

[58:18] And after this, we can proceed together in partnership again

[58:22] And this the cynical thought is, oh, one could one

[58:25] could hypothetically depress that number by treating

[58:28] the entirety of South Wood as the unit that you're evaluating.

[58:33] And then the total amount that have actually

[58:35] made the decision to voluntarily displace would be lower.

[58:39] But that is not what the measure is.

[58:41] No, no, we're adding it, not subtracting it.

[58:44] So in other words it's all the people

[58:46] who are at that precipice where it's time to make

[58:49] a decision of all those people.

[58:51] That's where the 85, 85% of those people have had stayed.

[58:55] Understood.

[58:55] Thank you so much.

[58:57] That's all I have to.

[58:58] All right.

[58:58] Supervisor missile Thanks.

[59:00] Now, you guys both staff and Mr. Rosensweig Yeah.

[59:03] This is great.

[59:04] Just triple teamed.

[59:05] I love it.

[59:07] This is just a follow up in the non displacement plan.

[59:10] I'm just looking at the agreement that was

[59:11] and maybe this is a dated agreement back in 2019.

[59:15] And in there it says as provided in Section 4,

[59:18] a five habitat must obtain approval of the non displacement

[59:21] plan before the county appropriates the first cash

[59:23] contribution and then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[59:26] Any amendment to the non displacement plan

[59:28] is also subject to review and approval

[59:29] by the county housing planner.

[59:31] Is that all been done?

[59:32] Is that that's done?

[59:33] Yes.

[59:33] It's under the water received the plan

[59:35] and it was approved prior to the distribution of the first cash

[59:38] payment.

[59:38] Great OK, great.

[59:40] Thank you.

[59:40] And I appreciate also Supervisor Mallex

[59:43] request for additional information that

[59:45] was really helpful and i hope I didn't miss anything

[59:48] because I've tried to review everything

[59:49] that's been coming in over the last couple of days.

[59:52] I just have a couple of questions.

[59:53] One is, as you think about is is there.

[59:57] Do we know what percentage of incremental tax revenue

[59:59] remains with the county if this to cover, for example, schools,

[1:00:05] roads, etc.

[1:00:07] So similar to form screaming or one,

[1:00:11] this would be a phased in approach.

[1:00:13] So we would look at structuring it

[1:00:15] So the first major portion of the time

[1:00:18] period, the 20 year time period would be 100% of the incentive.

[1:00:23] And then that would step down as we

[1:00:25] move towards that latter half of the 20 year mark.

[1:00:29] And that's really to recognize the cost of construction,

[1:00:33] the cost of development and supporting

[1:00:35] the project So through that, through that timeline

[1:00:40] and towards the latter part is when

[1:00:41] we'd start seeing some of the additional revenues coming

[1:00:44] to directly into the county, that would not be

[1:00:46] part of the incentive payment.

[1:00:48] OK, great.

[1:00:49] And I have no doubt they will fulfill everything.

[1:00:52] The a great, great project, highly respected you, Dan,

[1:00:57] is there a clawback or other audit and reporting provisions

[1:01:00] that are in this If for some reason commitments

[1:01:04] aren't fulfilled or maintained ? there are in some

[1:01:07] of the obligations that I talked about earlier and the reporting

[1:01:09] requirements one of the structural things we're looking

[1:01:13] at is the due dates from those that.

[1:01:14] So now we have the reporting requirements

[1:01:16] before we look at the incentive payment got make sure

[1:01:19] that compliance is the measure that all the obligations

[1:01:23] are called out in the agreement are fulfilled before we make

[1:01:27] that incentive payment Okay.

[1:01:29] Great.

[1:01:29] Thank you.

[1:01:30] And then on Slide seven, you don't have to go to the slide,

[1:01:32] but you mentioned the community center

[1:01:34] and I think you mentioned that funding is available.

[1:01:37] So is i guess what is the likelihood of that

[1:01:41] being completed?

[1:01:42] I know maybe that's a crystal ball question.

[1:01:45] Is it really part of the compliance requirements

[1:01:47] or is it.

[1:01:49] We hope it happens, yes.

[1:01:51] To both.

[1:01:52] We're going to incorporate it with the expectation

[1:01:56] that it that it sets that the county is

[1:01:58] interested in investing in the community center

[1:02:00] and has been since prior to 2018 being in that space

[1:02:06] and recognizing that the financial obligation

[1:02:10] for creating that is shared and so

[1:02:14] shared it from what has the frequent been described

[1:02:18] as other people's money in this process,

[1:02:21] as we seek funding from other sources, both habitat seeking

[1:02:24] those sources,

[1:02:25] particularly the potential of using price money

[1:02:27] for that hUD based price funds or any other source

[1:02:32] that we might identify such as any private donor who

[1:02:35] might be listening to this conversation right now

[1:02:37] or wish to invest in community center at some kind of platform

[1:02:42] to say everybody knows what can i clarify something?

[1:02:45] Yes.

[1:02:46] So the money we have, we have money for the center.

[1:02:49] We requested staff allow for an out in case

[1:02:54] that money that is a proper rated by HUD right

[1:02:57] now for some reason gets rescinded given given

[1:03:01] the stuff that's going on Chris, shouldn't it

[1:03:04] be it shouldn't be subject to rescission as per the way

[1:03:09] the the program was structured But we've

[1:03:13] seen across the country that hasn't always been the case.

[1:03:16] So if for some reason, the money that's

[1:03:18] already been appropriated that that's sitting in

[1:03:20] account waiting to fund this.

[1:03:21] Yeah.

[1:03:21] Gets rescinded then we can't promise that.

[1:03:24] I gotcha.

[1:03:25] That's very helpful And just to clarify,

[1:03:27] this is a 40 year homeownership affordability period, right?

[1:03:30] Not 30, because there was a 30 would be for rental units.

[1:03:35] OK.

[1:03:35] And 40 would be for homeownership units.

[1:03:38] And that's a baseline threshold or maybe

[1:03:40] opportunities for longer periods of affordability

[1:03:43] based on some negotiations we've been in with Habitat

[1:03:46] about some scaling around that But for the agreement's sake,

[1:03:51] the baseline can, consistent with housing

[1:03:53] Albemarle got great thank you That's all the questions

[1:03:57] supervisor officer currently any chance of getting that HUD money

[1:04:01] and building it quickly before it gets

[1:04:03] rescinded Yeah, that goes back to the questions

[1:04:07] that that speaker that the members of the public asked

[1:04:10] is that that's right now it's an assignment their trailers are.

[1:04:15] And those folks are now going through that process

[1:04:17] to get themselves ready to purchase homes.

[1:04:21] When we build them.

[1:04:22] We can't we can't move them until we build homes.

[1:04:25] And so that's the limiting factor.

[1:04:27] We're trying to expedite all we can on that.

[1:04:29] But but the governor, on the pace of this project

[1:04:32] is always trying to keep families in their homes

[1:04:36] until they move to their site.

[1:04:38] Yeah OK.

[1:04:39] Thank you.

[1:04:40] Most of my questions were answered.

[1:04:42] But you offered to have the displacement numbers policy, not

[1:04:48] the policy, but the displacement numbers

[1:04:50] are included if that's what we wanted.

[1:04:53] That's something I would like to see.

[1:04:55] How many people each time or if anyone's displaced

[1:04:59] and they accept you know, homeownership

[1:05:02] or rental within South Ward or if they choose to leave,

[1:05:06] I would like to continue receiving those Four years.

[1:05:10] Absolutely.

[1:05:10] OK.

[1:05:11] Thank you.

[1:05:11] The other questions i know Supervisor Malik,

[1:05:14] did you have a follow up just a quick reminder

[1:05:19] of the whole point, as I remember for where

[1:05:23] villages one and two were.

[1:05:24] Was it.

[1:05:24] It was Greenfield And so you can build

[1:05:26] the house in which the people who

[1:05:28] were in the trailers ready to be moved

[1:05:30] could go and not be thrown out too soon.

[1:05:33] So that is sort of what I assumed was the base

[1:05:36] and took care of all those families

[1:05:38] as well And the whole appreciative inquiry process

[1:05:41] that you all have done I mean, it's the first in the nation.

[1:05:44] And having watched from the sidelines

[1:05:45] as these families are working through these things

[1:05:48] and seeing it over ten years, it is incredible

[1:05:51] how the understanding and the evolution of the planning

[1:05:54] And first, well, we want everybody to have a garden

[1:05:56] and then they realize that river garden.

[1:05:58] And then they realized that if they

[1:05:59] did that, there wouldn't be enough room for everybody

[1:06:02] So they had to shrink the lots down and figure out

[1:06:04] who needs what and all these different things that

[1:06:07] were achieved here that have not been achieved.

[1:06:09] And more standard neighborhoods.

[1:06:11] So I really appreciate that.

[1:06:12] Thank you.

[1:06:13] Thank you And Supervisor Duncan, did you have any follow ups?

[1:06:16] All right.

[1:06:16] I have the supervisor for Two quick questions that

[1:06:21] were prompted by this other additional conversation

[1:06:24] and referencing how he would mentioned, you know,

[1:06:26] and we've talked about this before, the governor is always

[1:06:28] on growth.

[1:06:30] And then movement.

[1:06:31] Right.

[1:06:32] And that creates delays in the process.

[1:06:35] So when we talked specifically about the community center,

[1:06:38] looking at the the maps that you provided it does

[1:06:41] look like you're notionally planning on the community center

[1:06:45] a little in a different place than the current community

[1:06:48] center right.

[1:06:48] A little earlier on Hickory Street

[1:06:51] And that now begs the question of the fact

[1:06:54] that there is uncertainty in the funding

[1:06:57] streams for that new community center

[1:07:00] and also the fact that this is an iterative redevelopment

[1:07:03] and phase two, we're going to be on.

[1:07:04] Greenfield Right.

[1:07:05] We're going to be looking at existing construction.

[1:07:07] Appreciate it.

[1:07:09] What does the world look like where that runway on how long

[1:07:13] it takes to secure funding for the new community center

[1:07:18] But we have to do work in the place

[1:07:20] where the old community is there a universe or an alignment,

[1:07:25] an unfortunate alignment of funding streams that has us

[1:07:28] have to bulldoze the old one before the new one is

[1:07:31] ready or funded Now we've done that intentionally.

[1:07:36] And so One of the reasons why we're not

[1:07:38] building that there are multiple reasons to build the community

[1:07:40] center where the new location is For one,

[1:07:43] it's the geographic center of the community.

[1:07:45] It's almost exactly walkable.

[1:07:48] Equally walkable from all sort of outskirts of the community

[1:07:53] The second part is its connection

[1:07:54] with Biscuit run trails.

[1:07:56] So we imagine we're going to build some extra parking

[1:07:59] adjacent to it.

[1:08:00] So that people can park and use that as a trailhead

[1:08:02] and walk into the the park and hopefully come out and buy

[1:08:07] a burrito from one of our entrepreneurs

[1:08:09] who's who's cooking.

[1:08:10] And in the shared commercial kitchen there.

[1:08:14] But one of the biggest reasons is

[1:08:15] that we'll be able to keep the current community center in use.

[1:08:19] And our plan is to keep that in use.

[1:08:20] And as soon as we open up the doors of the new one,

[1:08:23] that's when we'll decommissioned the old one.

[1:08:26] I should remind you, that's still

[1:08:27] making it even more complicated.

[1:08:29] It's still subject to one of our original proffers

[1:08:33] for this was the county has the right to build

[1:08:35] a school on that Second site.

[1:08:37] And you have until the end of 2027

[1:08:40] to notify us whether you want to or not.

[1:08:43] If you're not going to build a school there,

[1:08:45] then we have an additional affordable housing requirement,

[1:08:47] which were or well well ahead of what our production for.

[1:08:53] So that shouldn't be a problem Understood

[1:08:57] I guess this is maybe now a question of for later

[1:09:00] if there is with that kind of a tacit request

[1:09:02] to extinguish that earlier than we're required.

[1:09:05] But I don't think we need to get into that for this.

[1:09:08] The other question I'd had was just

[1:09:10] scratching a little bit more on the current obligations

[1:09:14] under the relocation plan, versus what

[1:09:17] you or the relocate sSiOn data that is provided

[1:09:21] versus what there might be a public desire for.

[1:09:23] I know you i've heard your data before on, you know,

[1:09:27] 85 for 2% retention and the relocations that do exist

[1:09:32] are voluntary relocations I'm not clear

[1:09:35] if that is part of our current report required Ment's And I'd

[1:09:39] be curious if that would be something because because that

[1:09:42] is data that is held and that is data that you're

[1:09:44] transparent with on request.

[1:09:46] But you know Joe Public, I don't know,

[1:09:48] has the access to qualitative or quantitative information

[1:09:53] on the voluntary relocations.

[1:09:56] And I'm curious if there is either qualitative

[1:09:58] and quantitative data that could be either included or added

[1:10:01] to that is required reporting So we certainly will include that

[1:10:05] as part of the performance agreement obligation

[1:10:07] and conditions in terms of reporting

[1:10:10] and we'll be specific to ask for displacement and not

[1:10:13] just purchase or movement and to make sure that that's

[1:10:17] part of what we would be.

[1:10:18] De-identified data, of course, we heard from supervisor p

[1:10:22] so currently a specific interest to have

[1:10:24] that be included in that performance agreement

[1:10:27] and will that will be the case Thank you.

[1:10:30] And just for one final note, as that I say this

[1:10:35] and I'm trying to be responsive to concerns

[1:10:37] but I'm also, frankly, trying to position us,

[1:10:42] you and I as well as possible to be

[1:10:44] able to respond to political agreement right.

[1:10:48] So if someone says, oh, well, I hear from my students at school

[1:10:52] that there's consternation, I hear

[1:10:54] that some people feel they haven't been treated fairly

[1:10:56] It is helpful to be able to have that data in a place other

[1:11:01] than from your mouth and a place that we can reference back to

[1:11:06] on that issue.

[1:11:06] I think it's important to note that there is the promise of non

[1:11:10] displacement was made to the original inhabitants of South

[1:11:14] would when Habitat purchased the property

[1:11:17] and then Habitat has on several occasions

[1:11:20] expanded that group to include whoever

[1:11:22] is in the park at that moment.

[1:11:23] That's a process for the purposes of a 20 year

[1:11:26] redevelopment planning process can't continue forever

[1:11:30] The the sort of end of folks would be changing constantly

[1:11:34] and you wouldn't be able to make appropriate construction

[1:11:36] or financial planning around that number

[1:11:39] And so Habitat has expanded that group on several occasions.

[1:11:44] And there are people who have lived in the park

[1:11:46] since the purchase of the park who

[1:11:49] are not covered under this non displacement agreement.

[1:11:51] And so there are certainly community members, folks

[1:11:54] in schools other folks who hear that there's a promise

[1:11:57] that if you live in South, well, you can stay there forever.

[1:12:00] And that applies to a subset of folks there,

[1:12:03] a large subset of folks who have the longest standing commitment

[1:12:06] or engagement in that neighborhood.

[1:12:07] But there are folks who live in South Bend who

[1:12:09] are not included in this agreement around us,

[1:12:12] non displacement.

[1:12:13] And so people's real life experience

[1:12:15] s is counter to what they hear is the promise.

[1:12:18] And I think it's important for us

[1:12:19] to say the extra 3 or 4 sentences that helps

[1:12:22] explain why that's the case.

[1:12:23] And this would both things can be

[1:12:25] true in the case of that gentleman who's

[1:12:27] living on his grandmother's sofa but is not himself a homeowner

[1:12:31] But that is his maybe primary place of resident.

[1:12:33] He might not be embraced by that in the same way that No, no,

[1:12:37] it doesn't.

[1:12:38] He's included.

[1:12:39] It's because it's families.

[1:12:40] It's the folks When we had to say, okay, this.

[1:12:45] This is it, we now have a rezoning plan.

[1:12:47] We have a density amount of density.

[1:12:49] We have a pro forma.

[1:12:50] We can't we can't change the plant.

[1:12:52] We can't go back to the supervisors.

[1:12:54] Now and say, we need all multifamily housing.

[1:12:56] Now at that point in 2019 and we asked

[1:13:01] the residents of the resident council we said, should we

[1:13:03] continue if trailers come available for rent to allow

[1:13:07] people to move in given the dearth of affordable housing,

[1:13:12] or should we just shut the door full stop right now?

[1:13:14] And the residents said no, let people move in,

[1:13:16] but make it very, very clear Make them sign something

[1:13:19] when they move in that says that they

[1:13:21] recognize that when redevelopment happens

[1:13:24] they'll need to leave.

[1:13:24] And so we have all of those records and signatures

[1:13:27] So there is a small subset.

[1:13:29] It's not the it's not the person who's joined the family.

[1:13:32] It's a new family that moved in understanding

[1:13:36] that they could stay up until the time for redevelop

[1:13:39] and begins.

[1:13:40] And so it was their choice at that time,

[1:13:43] they still have tenant rates And so

[1:13:45] it's not like we can say tomorrow you have to move.

[1:13:47] There are still statutory tenants rights that they have.

[1:13:50] Once we start to lease to them.

[1:13:51] So most of them have, I think it's a nine month obligation.

[1:13:55] There are certain circumstances where we can accelerate that.

[1:13:58] If there's a health and safety issue.

[1:14:00] So something blows up next to there.

[1:14:02] And so it's normal unlawful detainers or non renewals

[1:14:06] for the lot themselves Right?

[1:14:09] And those folks also are entitled to housing support.

[1:14:12] We provide everybody Rehousing support We give them

[1:14:14] a long leave lead time, and we also have an appeals process.

[1:14:19] And so there are some families that have said,

[1:14:21] no, we were actually there before

[1:14:23] and there's an internal appeals process.

[1:14:25] Our board is the arbiter in that.

[1:14:27] And I think we've said yes to all.

[1:14:28] But then like five appeals, I think

[1:14:30] we've said yes all but one.

[1:14:32] They just have to show us anything,

[1:14:33] a picture, a newspaper, something

[1:14:36] and we'll open that door.

[1:14:38] We don't we want people to be able to stay I appreciate

[1:14:41] your patience for it.

[1:14:42] I appreciate your patience in for my questions.

[1:14:44] Thank you.

[1:14:45] Then i don't have any further questions or comments.

[1:14:48] Ready for I have what I need to take

[1:14:50] a vote is there any final comments or questions?

[1:14:53] All right.

[1:14:53] I'll look to the Scottsville supervisor for a motion.

[1:14:55] Oh, goodness Of course.

[1:14:57] Yes.

[1:14:57] I'd like to move to approve the resolution, including the board

[1:15:00] materials for this agenda item in attachment B. Second,

[1:15:04] is there any further discussion All right.

[1:15:06] If the clerk will please call the roll missile piece.

[1:15:08] So currently I miss Malik.

[1:15:10] Yes, Mr. Missal.

[1:15:11] Hi, Mr. Pruitt I miss Duncan.

[1:15:14] Yes, Mr. Galloway.

[1:15:16] Yes All right.

[1:15:17] Thank you.

[1:15:17] Board.

[1:15:18] Thank you.

[1:15:18] Can't thank you, Jacob.

[1:15:19] Thank you Okay.

[1:15:23] Board.

[1:15:24] We will move to item number ten Micro Cat Program update and fee

[1:15:29] discussion.

[1:15:30] Brian Davidson will be joining us to lead this.

[1:15:34] This one.

[1:15:35] And I see Mr. Bowman and Welcome Garland

[1:15:39] I see you hiding there in the back a little bit Yeah.

[1:15:49] Yeah So Yeah.

[1:16:04] Oh, okay Thank you.

[1:16:10] Good afternoon.

[1:16:11] Ryan Davidson, the deputy chief for budget.

[1:16:13] And I'm here this afternoon to discuss the micro cat

[1:16:15] program with you.

[1:16:17] Before we get started, I did want

[1:16:18] to acknowledge some other staff from the core MicroCap team who

[1:16:22] are here today in attendance Kevin McDermott and Tanya Swartz

[1:16:25] and driver from the Community Development department

[1:16:28] and Carla Williams from charlottesville,

[1:16:30] Area Transit captain.

[1:16:33] So for today's presentation is really

[1:16:35] going to be broken into two sections.

[1:16:37] First, it's going to start with a refresher on the background

[1:16:39] of the service and some data on some current service

[1:16:42] levels in the section is more for your information

[1:16:45] and to answer any general questions you may have about

[1:16:48] micro cat And then second, we're going

[1:16:50] to discuss the micro cat fares as a reminder to the board

[1:16:53] and to the public.

[1:16:54] The fY 27 adopted budget contained revenue from micro

[1:16:58] fares and after a discussion with the board at our March 11th

[1:17:01] work session, the board instructed staff to come back

[1:17:04] for feedback and approval prior to the implementation of these

[1:17:07] fares.

[1:17:08] Today, staff brought forth a recommendation

[1:17:09] around the structure for the micro cat fares for the board's

[1:17:12] consideration and approval After we go through the presentation

[1:17:16] to complete the presentation, staff

[1:17:17] will turn to the board for any general questions

[1:17:20] and for questions and discussion on the microphone at fares

[1:17:24] and ultimately an action of the board decision on the fare

[1:17:28] recommendation So we're going to start

[1:17:33] with a quick refresher on the background of the micro Cat

[1:17:35] service and some of the data on the current program

[1:17:37] Service levels in 2022, our Martin County conducted

[1:17:41] a transit expansion study.

[1:17:43] One of the main recommendations coming from this study

[1:17:45] was around the utilization of micro transit and more

[1:17:48] specifically for having that service in the pant hops and 29

[1:17:52] north corridors or zones of the county.

[1:17:54] At that time, it was estimated the county could

[1:17:56] see approximately 100 rides per day

[1:17:58] for the service Using this study and the information provided

[1:18:02] by the county through our partners at fcaT,

[1:18:05] applied for and was awarded a demonstration grant

[1:18:08] from the Department of Rail and Public Transportation.

[1:18:10] This grant originally was a two year grant,

[1:18:13] worth a total of about approximately 1.9 million,

[1:18:15] which included a county match of just under $390,000.

[1:18:21] So utilizing this grant funding the county,

[1:18:24] again through partnership with Cat,

[1:18:25] was able to procure and launch the micro cat services

[1:18:28] at the end of October 2023.

[1:18:29] And that's for the area shown in blue and red here

[1:18:32] on this diagram which are the 29 north main types areas.

[1:18:37] As you can see, the service runs monday through Saturday from

[1:18:40] 6:30 a.m. to 9:00 PM and microcephalic consists of eight

[1:18:44] hybrid minivans and I'm sure you've seen driving around town,

[1:18:46] I think we're showing the blue vans here.

[1:18:49] But the most recent ones I've seen driving around town

[1:18:51] are those black man's they have now.

[1:18:52] So they're updating the fleet as we

[1:18:54] as we move along in terms of current annual cost,

[1:18:59] the adopted budget for this service for fY 27

[1:19:01] was just over 1.4 million since October of 2023.

[1:19:08] And through the end of last month,

[1:19:09] Micro Cat has completed over 184,000 rides.

[1:19:14] As I mentioned earlier, this study

[1:19:15] anticipated approximately 100 rides per day.

[1:19:17] And as you can see, we are averaging almost double

[1:19:19] that amount in rides per day.

[1:19:22] Listed on the left hand side are the top 15 location

[1:19:26] of combined origin and destinations

[1:19:28] for the service in order of the most requested

[1:19:31] at the top of the list requested.

[1:19:34] Obviously, that's the top 15, so there's

[1:19:36] a lot more outside of this that are

[1:19:38] that we're going to the graphics on the right show you

[1:19:40] kind of a heat map within the zones of where the most

[1:19:43] popular spots for ride origination which

[1:19:45] is the blue side and on the left and ride destinations shown

[1:19:49] in the yellowish gold, you can see

[1:19:51] there's a mix from the charts and from the graphics.

[1:19:54] There's a mix of commercial and residential locations

[1:19:57] and there's a higher concentration

[1:19:58] of rides around the urban ring and the Harley meter area moving

[1:20:04] on, I want to speak for just a moment on service performance

[1:20:07] and the quality of the service.

[1:20:09] There are a couple highlights around these areas.

[1:20:11] I want to point out first is that we

[1:20:13] see less than point three complaints per day which

[1:20:17] when you look at the number of rides

[1:20:19] we have per day, that means on average micro cat

[1:20:21] is receiving less than one complaint per day

[1:20:23] on the service.

[1:20:25] I also wanted to point out the high amount

[1:20:27] of five star ratings 93%.

[1:20:29] But those that leave a review.

[1:20:30] So the service appears to be leaving a good impression

[1:20:33] on the riders.

[1:20:33] They use it.

[1:20:34] And finally, I wanted to point out some rider

[1:20:36] retention and engagement.

[1:20:37] 79% of the riders are repeat users of the service

[1:20:41] and with it.

[1:20:42] And those customers with an average of eight rides per month

[1:20:45] for the return users of that service as good as our biker

[1:20:51] cat services, there are limitations.

[1:20:53] The charts on the next couple of slides

[1:20:55] may not be the easiest to read, but I'll walk through them

[1:20:57] really quickly.

[1:20:58] Our contract an annual cost, is based upon 380 driver

[1:21:02] hours per year or excuse me, per week,

[1:21:05] which requires us to adjust the vehicle hours at various times

[1:21:07] to meet the demand On this first chart,

[1:21:10] the green portion of the bar is is showing the demand where

[1:21:13] completed rides are completed, requests

[1:21:16] for each month since the service started, the gray portion is

[1:21:19] representing that unmet demand amount As you can see,

[1:21:23] the amount of requests per month have grown larger

[1:21:25] as the MicroConf has been in place

[1:21:27] and based on our hours limitations

[1:21:29] that I mentioned before, that's resulting in a higher

[1:21:32] as the demand grows,

[1:21:33] we're starting to see a higher percentage of unmet demand

[1:21:37] But to put this chart in context of percentages,

[1:21:41] my cat's averaging around the mid-seventies in terms

[1:21:44] of percent of met demand per month

[1:21:50] So because we have more requests than rides

[1:21:52] for my work at vehicle hours and driver hours

[1:21:55] have to be adjusted throughout the day

[1:21:57] to try and make sure we have the most vehicles in service

[1:22:00] at our highest demand points So in this chart, the blue bar show

[1:22:04] a typical day.

[1:22:05] And how the demand has been for the services

[1:22:08] and the rise has been spread throughout the day

[1:22:10] as you can see, the highest demand

[1:22:11] is normally between the hours of 2 p.m. and 5 p.m.

[1:22:14] and the light blue line here shows how the driver hours are

[1:22:17] adjusted throughout the day to get more drivers and more

[1:22:19] drivers on the road at our peak demand times

[1:22:22] to try to meet that demand again.

[1:22:25] Even after my work at flex is hours

[1:22:27] to meet our peak demand periods we're

[1:22:28] still limited to the 70% range.

[1:22:30] And that demand which we will tie into the fares

[1:22:32] discussion, which is part of the second half of our conversation

[1:22:36] today.

[1:22:38] So going to transition into the fares at this point right

[1:22:44] So the background these fares are proposed to begin mid-year

[1:22:48] in fiscal year 27, and they're estimated to generate

[1:22:50] approximately $80,000 in revenue for this fiscal year

[1:22:54] And we're included as part of the FY 27 adopted budget

[1:22:57] and subsequent fiscal years, we could expect the annual revenue

[1:23:00] for fares to be approximately double the 2027 amount

[1:23:03] at approximately $160,000 per year.

[1:23:07] It should be noted that the intent of these fees

[1:23:09] is not to be a source of revenue to fully offset the cost

[1:23:12] but rather to help cover some of the cost.

[1:23:15] While incentivize users to utilize this service

[1:23:18] to supplement fixed rail, not instead as a replacement

[1:23:21] for fixed route fixed services.

[1:23:23] Still, the most efficient and cost effective

[1:23:25] means of public transportation The main reason that micro-cap

[1:23:29] and staff have not proposed fares prior to F1 27

[1:23:32] was that there was a condition as part

[1:23:34] of the original EIGRP to demonstration grant, which

[1:23:37] was that that was used to start the program,

[1:23:39] as you remember that the service was

[1:23:41] to remain free as a condition of this grant, as that

[1:23:44] was part of the application F y 27 is the first full year.

[1:23:48] That is not governed by the conditions of the grant.

[1:23:50] We have fully met all the conditions of the grant.

[1:23:52] The grant has since expired.

[1:23:53] It is now fully on the county's dollar.

[1:23:55] And so this is the first year we've

[1:23:56] been able to look at the potential of cost

[1:23:58] recovery for this.

[1:24:00] Staff also wanted to point out that the implementation

[1:24:04] of these fares is consistent with the county's

[1:24:07] adopted financial policies.

[1:24:08] I'm not going to read them word for word,

[1:24:10] but it's really consistent with both our revenue diversification

[1:24:13] policy and our user free policy with some

[1:24:16] of the main points highlighted on the slide

[1:24:18] here So in working with our provider

[1:24:23] and researching the types of fares and fare structures,

[1:24:25] there are many different types of fares and models

[1:24:28] for implementation.

[1:24:29] There's the flat fare models various discounted models

[1:24:32] and more trip specific models.

[1:24:34] Is that a fair model or structure has its pros and cons

[1:24:38] and not every type fare type or structure

[1:24:40] is appropriate for each locality or service based on the type

[1:24:43] and level of service provided.

[1:24:44] Each locality must pick the option or options that

[1:24:47] are best for their service in a minute,

[1:24:49] we'll look at what we are recommending

[1:24:51] the options for the micro-cap service in addition

[1:24:56] to the structure and type affairs being charged,

[1:24:58] each locality must determine the proper rate for its service

[1:25:01] and for those using its service.

[1:25:03] As highlighted in blue on the chart here the fare of $2

[1:25:07] is average when compared to the rates charged by micro transit

[1:25:11] services across the U.S. it's not the highest, not the lowest,

[1:25:13] but really on par as the average for what's typically

[1:25:16] being charged for public metro transit services of this type

[1:25:23] So when looking at microcap fares

[1:25:25] in terms of how more county staff are recommending

[1:25:28] to start with a simple fare structure that increases

[1:25:31] the revenues and has a potential to improve some service

[1:25:34] efficiency and using that principle as a framework,

[1:25:37] staff are recommended to use a combination of the three fare

[1:25:40] types that I've shown here on the screen.

[1:25:42] We'll go into a little more detail on each

[1:25:44] of these in the following slides and how

[1:25:46] that would work within the micro-cap fare structure Again

[1:25:51] using the framework of keeping it simple,

[1:25:53] trying to get some revenue to try to increase efficiency,

[1:25:56] we are proposing the structure to start with a flat base

[1:25:59] rate of $2 per ride for a single passenger

[1:26:02] and then a reduced fare of $1 for each additional passenger

[1:26:06] that's picked up at the same location

[1:26:08] to the same destination for that same ride.

[1:26:10] In addition to the discounted rates for shared trips,

[1:26:13] staff are proposing to have rate concessions

[1:26:14] for specific groups of riders.

[1:26:17] We will go into more detail on that in next slide.

[1:26:19] But we're really recommending those groups

[1:26:21] to receive a discount be seat inclusive years.

[1:26:24] Individuals with disabilities and low income households

[1:26:28] in terms of ridership impact staff

[1:26:30] is really projecting a slight dip in demand roughly 2 2

[1:26:34] 3% based on history and some other localities

[1:26:37] But given the unmet demand we discussed

[1:26:39] earlier in the presentation this would allow us to capture

[1:26:42] and complete more of those rides So overall, we're

[1:26:45] projecting no decrease in the number of rides that are being

[1:26:48] served per week And staff is recommending

[1:26:55] to provide the discounted rate for these certain groups.

[1:26:58] And again, the reduced fares being proposed

[1:27:00] to be half of the base rate.

[1:27:02] So $1 per ride.

[1:27:04] The first group eligible for the reduced fare

[1:27:07] would be, as I said, having multiple passengers

[1:27:09] for the same ride, same location pick up location,

[1:27:12] same origin, destination and booked

[1:27:14] through an original requester.

[1:27:17] Staff believes this structure will promote greater efficiency

[1:27:19] in the system by incentivizing more group rides as opposed

[1:27:23] to those single one off trips.

[1:27:24] Getting more people to ride together

[1:27:25] and putting more people in each trip.

[1:27:28] Next group recommended for fare would

[1:27:30] be seniors over the age of 65.

[1:27:33] we're looking App riders with disabilities

[1:27:35] that would affect their mobility and ability to get around.

[1:27:38] And finally, riders that would classify as low income.

[1:27:41] After speaking with staff from our Human Services Department

[1:27:45] it was determined that using the metric of 60% below 60% AMI

[1:27:49] would be the proper level to set that to be

[1:27:53] consistent with the definition.

[1:27:55] A classification of low income that we've

[1:27:56] been using for other programs throughout the county.

[1:28:00] These reduced reduced rate recommendations

[1:28:03] are the most common types.

[1:28:04] When you're looking at the public micro transit

[1:28:07] services of this type.

[1:28:08] When you look at other localities,

[1:28:11] there are many forms of verification.

[1:28:12] You may be asking, well, how do we verify this?

[1:28:14] There's many forms of verification

[1:28:15] for these types of groups that we

[1:28:17] could look into self-selecting in the app

[1:28:19] some simple form submission from outside of the app that's

[1:28:22] review into a more strict and formal verification

[1:28:26] processes that require more resources.

[1:28:28] Given the resources considerations,

[1:28:30] staff recommending that it be self-select out

[1:28:32] by the users of the service as part of their

[1:28:35] to update part of their user profile within the app.

[1:28:38] Considering the staff resources that would be needed

[1:28:40] and the cost of administration and verification

[1:28:42] other verification processes At this point,

[1:28:45] the self-selecting option seems appears

[1:28:47] to make the most sense to staff and we can always uses

[1:28:50] for 6 to 12 month period period affairs as a sort of pilot

[1:28:54] for this type of verification.

[1:28:56] And look at the data to see from that time period

[1:28:58] to see if we might need a more comprehensive review

[1:29:02] and see if there is a more comprehensive form

[1:29:03] of verification might be needed in the future.

[1:29:06] But looking at this as a pilot to keep it simple,

[1:29:09] keep it easy for this first time around is staff's recommendation

[1:29:18] So to summarize on the fares, staff are recommending

[1:29:22] the microcap start with a simple fare increase revenue

[1:29:25] potential for service efficiency based on our research,

[1:29:28] the $2 for ride.

[1:29:29] Flat fare will do just that.

[1:29:32] Some of the benefits of the recommended fare structure

[1:29:34] and verification process are the simplicity and ease

[1:29:37] of understanding for the microcap riders

[1:29:40] as it has a low cost of administration as compared

[1:29:42] to other robust services and verification processes.

[1:29:46] There's no additional contract costs charged by our provider

[1:29:50] via via excuse me to charge fees and there

[1:29:54] should be a very minimal third party collection

[1:29:56] for the collection is done through a third, third party

[1:29:58] service and that should be around 1% of the revenue

[1:30:02] collected.

[1:30:02] So very minimal fee for their administrative services

[1:30:05] on that side.

[1:30:07] Again we're not intending for these fares

[1:30:08] to fully pay for the service, but rather

[1:30:10] provide that balance between cost considerations

[1:30:13] versus community needs and specialize

[1:30:15] nature of this service.

[1:30:17] The fees meet the intent of two of the counties

[1:30:19] adopted financial policies that I mentioned earlier

[1:30:21] and these fees are the first step in building different rider

[1:30:24] habits to not use this as a substitute for fixed route,

[1:30:27] but rather as a supplement to fixed fares.

[1:30:30] Have than help have been shown to help with unmet demand.

[1:30:33] And they have been shown to increase

[1:30:36] the efficiency of individual rides But we're always sorry.

[1:30:44] Apologize.

[1:30:45] This is my final sign of content.

[1:30:47] Before I turn the discussion over to the board

[1:30:49] chair for questions, discussion and ultimately action

[1:30:51] on the recommended fare structure.

[1:30:53] If the board approves the fare structure recommendation,

[1:30:55] here are kind of the next steps.

[1:30:57] We're really looking at over the next couple of months.

[1:30:59] And until the fares are implemented

[1:31:01] staff would work with or with Cape

[1:31:03] and our partners at Cat and Via to begin the rider education

[1:31:06] process about the coming fares and to make sure riders

[1:31:09] are informed and prepared for this upcoming change.

[1:31:12] We would work with our provider to update the app

[1:31:14] and be ready to begin charging for and collecting

[1:31:17] the fees through the app that folks used to book their rides.

[1:31:21] And finally beginning January 1st,

[1:31:23] we would begin charging for these fees With that,

[1:31:30] I am now going to turn this over to the board chair for question

[1:31:32] discussions and after the discussion,

[1:31:34] if there are no changes, staff's recommendation is to adopt

[1:31:38] the resolution and Attachment A to set the micro-cap fees.

[1:31:42] Thank you.

[1:31:43] Thank you, Mr. Davison.

[1:31:44] Supervisor Malik thank you very much.

[1:31:46] And I appreciate the approach that you are generate.

[1:31:50] You have suggested here i think it's really important

[1:31:54] that there be accountability.

[1:31:56] I been concerned about just giving free taxi

[1:32:00] rides to everybody, especially people who are certainly

[1:32:03] able to contribute something.

[1:32:05] It's not $15, which is probably more

[1:32:07] of a standard Uber ride from the airport to the hospital.

[1:32:11] But I also really appreciate the benefits

[1:32:13] to these people who are able to get

[1:32:15] to work or get to the hospital I get the child to school.

[1:32:17] I mean, they're wonderful reasons to do this.

[1:32:20] So i look forward to your app update

[1:32:25] and the profile could then be verified because someone will

[1:32:29] have access to the profile.

[1:32:31] And that's how they would reserve

[1:32:33] and how they would pay everything else.

[1:32:35] So there's no cash delay that makes the drivers crazy, which

[1:32:39] is important I think an affidavit button

[1:32:43] or something like that in your app

[1:32:47] So people are warned ahead of time

[1:32:49] to be accurate is fair to the people paying the bill.

[1:32:54] The last question I had.

[1:32:55] So the budget for 27 for this current year into this program

[1:33:00] is million dollars or something, right?

[1:33:02] Yeah.

[1:33:03] 1.4 million.

[1:33:03] Just over 1.4 million.

[1:33:05] That's significant for sure.

[1:33:07] OK.

[1:33:07] Thank you very much.

[1:33:09] Supervisor Duncan originally i was really hesitant

[1:33:15] about fees and about Africa and General

[1:33:20] so I appreciate sort of throughout the year here

[1:33:23] help me understanding it.

[1:33:25] And I also really appreciate having

[1:33:28] sort of the rationale laid out in our packet

[1:33:33] and it makes sense to me, especially if you're

[1:33:36] trying to get people to do group rides and not just have Sing

[1:33:39] Along Rides So I actually think this is a great thing

[1:33:44] to try and see what happens.

[1:33:46] So I really appreciate how well laid out this was

[1:33:49] and having all of this kind of ready ahead of time.

[1:33:53] Thank you.

[1:33:53] You.

[1:33:55] Supervisor Pruitt Thank you.

[1:33:58] I appreciate it.

[1:34:01] This change, I think My concern to kind of pithily

[1:34:07] capture the various concerns I have about MicroCap generally

[1:34:10] is that it feels like a kind of curious nice

[1:34:14] to have like a fun thing we do and feels

[1:34:17] less part of an integral to transit system.

[1:34:20] And I feel like this is a step toward that I think

[1:34:24] we heard a lot of things just in this very short presentation

[1:34:26] that still point to how it is being treated as a weird

[1:34:29] nice to have that rather than part of our transit system

[1:34:32] right?

[1:34:32] Like if 1 in 4 times when I wait at the bus stop,

[1:34:35] the bus never shows up Yeah, that

[1:34:38] is a disastrous transit system.

[1:34:40] But that is the case with fire, right?

[1:34:42] Like the only time I tried to use via it was in the rain.

[1:34:45] I was commuting from my home on Avon Street to tiptop right

[1:34:52] And I didn't once I walked into the county across free bridge,

[1:34:57] I did not want to walk up in the rain pant ups. Hell,

[1:35:00] 15 minute walk back.

[1:35:01] It sucked And so I tried to help.

[1:35:04] And it just told me, no, nothing available.

[1:35:08] It didn't like give me a timeline.

[1:35:09] It didn't explain why nothing was available.

[1:35:11] And that's what people get.

[1:35:12] One fourth of the time, right?

[1:35:14] Like that is not a transit service.

[1:35:16] That's not a transit service.

[1:35:18] Something that I can't rely on for a recurring thing

[1:35:21] is not functioning And similarly,

[1:35:23] like a service that i can use in lieu of fixed route

[1:35:29] to bus all the way up the length of 29

[1:35:33] from my home in South pant hops, if I have one,

[1:35:37] would not be what we want, right?

[1:35:39] So it is there existing problems?

[1:35:42] I think this professional lives.

[1:35:44] Is it it maybe helps integrate it

[1:35:46] and it helps us treat it more like a serious tool, which

[1:35:50] I appreciate it.

[1:35:52] I, I do think the logic behind the income verification

[1:35:55] or rather non verification makes sense

[1:35:58] but I'm going to be intrigued by the program analysis

[1:36:01] on the back end of that, I might suggest

[1:36:04] that in if it is being abused in lieu of a income standard

[1:36:11] at really easy to verify standard

[1:36:14] would be is receiving county services right Right.

[1:36:18] That could be literally a checkbox from someone

[1:36:21] human services who it gets sent to.

[1:36:23] I don't know that anyone from Human Services

[1:36:25] is here to tell me, please don't do that.

[1:36:27] But since they're not here, I can assign them

[1:36:31] that future potential network I think that is all I have.

[1:36:37] But I will be I will be interested to see

[1:36:39] how we are able to continue reconfiguring and reimagining

[1:36:43] this service to make it not just a curious city and instead

[1:36:49] part of an integrated transit system.

[1:36:50] And I'm going to continue Garland

[1:36:53] I'm going to continue to be quite cynical and skeptical

[1:36:56] about this program.

[1:36:57] Every time it comes up until it feels more like a transit

[1:36:59] service supervisor.

[1:37:03] Miguel, thank you.

[1:37:04] Just one quick questions.

[1:37:06] The numbers 1.4 million you said was budgeted.

[1:37:09] Yes, sir.

[1:37:09] The income expected from this is 80,000 for a full fiscal year

[1:37:14] would be approximately 160,000 is what we're estimating

[1:37:17] on the conservative side.

[1:37:18] But since we're only doing six months for the current fiscal

[1:37:21] year, not starting till January to come, in the 80,000,

[1:37:24] we did not want to kick this off immediately after approval

[1:37:29] because as we talked with Mr. Williams and those advisor,

[1:37:34] the biggest piece of this is the driver education Like you've got

[1:37:37] to make sure you educate your users because if you all

[1:37:40] of a sudden spring it on them like, hey,

[1:37:42] we're just approved this we're charging that creates a lot more

[1:37:45] issues, complaints, calls to their service center.

[1:37:47] And so we want to make sure we're properly educating.

[1:37:49] So if people need to find other methods of transportation

[1:37:54] when this may not be feasible for them,

[1:37:56] they can begin making those preparations as well Thank you.

[1:38:01] And so this.

[1:38:02] I apologize if these are basic questions,

[1:38:04] but the grant is expiring or has expired.

[1:38:08] It expired.

[1:38:09] Did we look for other grant opportunities to fulfill that

[1:38:12] or to replace that I, I, I'm going

[1:38:16] to look to Mr. Williams for another shake his head.

[1:38:20] I don't believe we have this was AA1 time demonstrate

[1:38:23] and grant Yeah.

[1:38:24] And typically those are kind of a one time

[1:38:26] show us Yeah, we'll let you see if the program is

[1:38:29] working and works for your community

[1:38:31] and what you would want to do.

[1:38:32] And then once it runs out, a condition of,

[1:38:35] of the demonstration grant was you have to do a year of this

[1:38:38] without our grant money on your dime.

[1:38:40] OK.

[1:38:41] And then the grants are technically

[1:38:43] this is our second year of paying for just county.

[1:38:46] Yeah, but it was still under the conditions of the grant in FY 26

[1:38:48] because we still had to do that one year on our own.

[1:38:52] So there might be a potential opportunity

[1:38:53] to replace the fare with a grant in the future.

[1:38:57] We'll be actively look to do that.

[1:38:59] We we're always looking for those opportunities.

[1:39:02] I i'm not a transit expert.

[1:39:05] I don't know what's currently out there

[1:39:06] but I know we're always looking for those opportunities needs

[1:39:09] to be able to do that across our entire transportation network

[1:39:13] And that's I'm sure that's something we would be

[1:39:15] able to bring in front of part of

[1:39:16] as well as we start to look at system

[1:39:19] configuration in the future.

[1:39:21] OK.

[1:39:21] Thank you.

[1:39:22] And then the fair verification piece

[1:39:24] that was also a question I had.

[1:39:26] How do you you know, how do you identify riders

[1:39:30] with 60% AMI or less, etc.

[1:39:33] We've talked around that.

[1:39:34] I think, affidavit, but it's a great idea.

[1:39:36] I think some of the other ideas were good ones.

[1:39:37] I think it'd be important for us to continue

[1:39:40] to pursue that just to try to avoid any abuse of the system.

[1:39:45] Grants and then I maybe ask this question offline.

[1:39:50] That's okay.

[1:39:51] I'm good.

[1:39:51] That's it.

[1:39:52] Thank you for supervisor Mr. Gurley.

[1:39:56] You know I remember when this program started a few years ago

[1:39:59] for half of you were here and this is a great program.

[1:40:03] Frankly this is we've gone from 100 people riding

[1:40:08] a day to 180 riding a day.

[1:40:11] So those are people that we are helping

[1:40:14] to get to their location Yes, it was at no cost

[1:40:17] Now it's going to be at a very low cost.

[1:40:19] I think it's going to continue to be successful.

[1:40:23] I think we've we've met our goal as far as ridership

[1:40:28] and over, you know, we've doubled that and kudos to you

[1:40:34] all for that I like the fare structure.

[1:40:38] I think that's going to work.

[1:40:39] I was a first word before it was answered

[1:40:42] that it's not going to be cash.

[1:40:44] So otherwise, I thought, oh my gosh,

[1:40:47] you're going to be held up.

[1:40:48] But anyway, the drivers.

[1:40:50] So this is a good thing.

[1:40:52] And it's all incorporate too, with cat.

[1:40:54] So that's a good thing.

[1:40:55] Could you go to slide five?

[1:40:58] There's something that piqued my interest

[1:41:01] because it came up before that.

[1:41:04] Oh, yeah The top origins and Destiny ations.

[1:41:07] We had discussed this before, and that

[1:41:10] was at Memorial High School I am planning a campus.

[1:41:15] We discussed about students who are late taking micro cat

[1:41:19] or who are using it to get to the high school

[1:41:22] and not taking the school bus or walking or whatever.

[1:41:27] I'm just wondering if you how many are from how many

[1:41:32] go to Albemarle High School Because I

[1:41:35] think you had another another slide that shows you your if you

[1:41:41] needed additional driver time, which one was that Not one.

[1:41:46] Right.

[1:41:47] So you need a additional driver hours.

[1:41:49] I what I'm wondering what is the effect maybe

[1:41:52] I have a moral high school.

[1:41:53] The students maybe it has no effect on this,

[1:41:56] but I'd like to know, what is the effect How many students

[1:42:00] are doing this?

[1:42:00] Are they monopolizing the lot or not ?

[1:42:06] So I'll start by saying, when this question came up

[1:42:10] in the March work session as well, or coming out of that.

[1:42:14] And we looked into this.

[1:42:16] And what we saw was that typically

[1:42:18] in terms of times of the rides there was a big boost midday

[1:42:23] and kind of towards the end, kind of like afterschool type

[1:42:27] of things there.

[1:42:28] It wasn't as big of a number of riders

[1:42:32] at the beginning of the day as it might,

[1:42:33] as you were mentioning, students that were late for school

[1:42:35] were dropped off.

[1:42:36] There wasn't a big spike there.

[1:42:39] There was a little bit before school,

[1:42:41] which maybe would speak towards staff

[1:42:43] using that as a as the ability to get to and from.

[1:42:47] And so we looked at that.

[1:42:49] And we couldn't say, oh yeah, no, this is definitely

[1:42:51] just folks using it for coming in not wanting to ride the bus

[1:42:56] or they're definitely taking this

[1:42:58] to get home because they don't want to ride the yellow bus.

[1:43:01] The Times weren't the data didn't bear that out

[1:43:04] conclusively So that was kind of how we looked at that.

[1:43:08] And so we can get additional information just

[1:43:11] for that particular one.

[1:43:13] Appreciate it.

[1:43:13] Has fallen as low as we look at this list

[1:43:16] throughout various periods of time.

[1:43:18] It's fallen as low as number nine

[1:43:19] on that list, been as high as number three.

[1:43:21] It kind of the locations don't tend to change,

[1:43:24] but they're the frequency of these locations

[1:43:27] tends to move up and down on the list.

[1:43:30] OK.

[1:43:30] With that, that answers my question.

[1:43:32] And thank you.

[1:43:33] I mean, for looking at i don't want

[1:43:35] you to do any additional work with that.

[1:43:37] Sounds like you're already on top of it.

[1:43:39] And the you know, students using it and everything.

[1:43:43] So that's all the questions i have.

[1:43:46] Thank you.

[1:43:47] That was going to be my question.

[1:43:49] One of the things that is kind of common out there

[1:43:51] in the world relative to fares, fees, things like that

[1:43:54] is a student rate And I don't see a student rate here.

[1:43:58] You put the $1, you know, like that seems to me

[1:44:02] to be a something that both for seniors and for students

[1:44:06] that that's something that you could do.

[1:44:08] I mean, I think it's pretty clear that Albemarle

[1:44:10] and the students are using at 1600 as 4:00.

[1:44:12] That's right When 350 is when the bell rings.

[1:44:15] And that whole campus.

[1:44:16] So I don't know that I would be quick to say they just don't

[1:44:19] want to ride the school bus.

[1:44:20] Right.

[1:44:21] I would suggest somewhere and I wouldn't either.

[1:44:23] If it takes an hour to get home and I could get home

[1:44:25] in ten minutes, why the hell would I

[1:44:27] would I not take quicker cut?

[1:44:28] But the high school is more piece

[1:44:30] where the school bus runs right at the bell

[1:44:32] at the end of the day.

[1:44:33] But if you have an activity, you have

[1:44:34] to stay late to see a teacher You

[1:44:35] have to do anything like that.

[1:44:37] The service becomes an alternative way

[1:44:39] than to wait around for yet another bus or activity bus

[1:44:42] or something like that that may run later.

[1:44:46] So I think there's more to it than that.

[1:44:47] And frankly, don't care Love that the students are using it,

[1:44:50] frankly.

[1:44:51] That's fine with me.

[1:44:52] Garland you can always use me as the Prewitt synthesis

[1:44:55] and shield if he ever comes at you too hard,

[1:44:58] because I will continue to be a fan of this.

[1:45:00] And can counterpoint a lot of things

[1:45:03] But Rio district residents are using this as their transit

[1:45:06] service It's just happening And I always

[1:45:10] use the wood brook to Kroger.

[1:45:11] It's not that far They'll never be a fixed route that

[1:45:14] runs from Wood Brook to Kroger.

[1:45:16] And if there is one, it'll have to be circular and go around

[1:45:19] where the micropub it's always going to be the faster way

[1:45:22] and I don't want them walking across the aisle across 29.

[1:45:25] So happy to have that happen.

[1:45:28] I think the fee piece will be easily accepted

[1:45:31] because from the get go we did a good job of saying

[1:45:34] there will eventually be a fee.

[1:45:36] So every time I remind folks of that,

[1:45:38] it's not What are you talking about?

[1:45:41] It's Yeah okay, we understand.

[1:45:44] And that's, again just dealing with my districts,

[1:45:47] folks that I know who are using Micro Cat on a regular basis,

[1:45:50] I would like to know, though, because there's talk about

[1:45:53] fixed routes and micro cat could inform it

[1:45:56] because a lot of the places that Micro Cat is currently

[1:45:59] operating in just don't have fixed routes period right now.

[1:46:03] They could serve it and at some point

[1:46:06] when I don't expect this can be answered today.

[1:46:08] So this is like a foreshadowing the budget time At some point,

[1:46:13] we should have some data or information to theorize

[1:46:16] the cost of putting a fixed route in places in the county

[1:46:20] that don't currently have one or move it from 60 Minutes to 30

[1:46:24] or 30 to 15 minutes like I know some other stuff's happening

[1:46:27] versus the micro cat, so that the board could eventually

[1:46:31] go, well, which ones more cost efficient to go

[1:46:34] ahead and continue providing the micro cat

[1:46:36] or expand or get this fixed route in in conjunction

[1:46:39] with or just replace it with fixed round

[1:46:42] and via alluded to being able to do that kind of theorizing

[1:46:46] at one point.

[1:46:47] So I feel like we're far enough along that we

[1:46:50] should be able to have that level of discussion

[1:46:52] at budget time.

[1:46:53] So we can look at 1.4 million.

[1:46:54] We can look at the millions for the fixed routes

[1:46:57] and start to go, okay, how can we make improvements

[1:47:00] and what's the most cost effective way to do it?

[1:47:03] My guess is it'll be a combo pack, right?

[1:47:05] Of the micro cat and the fixed routes But so

[1:47:10] that's just a request for future budget type.

[1:47:13] This the lead time.

[1:47:17] I appreciate that.

[1:47:17] That was one of my questions.

[1:47:19] So the education plan is going to be important.

[1:47:22] And then do you own the profile for the app?

[1:47:25] I just I don't know.

[1:47:26] Do minors have to have their can they have their own profile

[1:47:30] or do adults have to set it up?

[1:47:32] So if I'm a 15 year old riding micro cat,

[1:47:35] do i have my 15 year old individual profile

[1:47:38] or does my parents set that up?

[1:47:41] I'm unsure.

[1:47:42] Mr. Williams, do you hear?

[1:47:43] And I don't really need to know that.

[1:47:46] But the thing that makes me concerned

[1:47:48] is if once we go to paid the 50 year old

[1:47:51] might not have the credit card or whatever

[1:47:53] is going to be asked to make the payment right.

[1:47:56] And we may want to just think about the logistics of that

[1:48:00] via probable plea has already dealt with this.

[1:48:03] So it may just be our report back kind of deal.

[1:48:06] How we'll handle that But I would definitely

[1:48:10] you know, for folks that are kids

[1:48:12] can drive their own cars at 16.

[1:48:14] So I would imagine anything below 16

[1:48:17] might be the threshold for something

[1:48:18] where okay, they might need some other type of profile,

[1:48:22] but the individual.

[1:48:23] I don't know if the drivers are checking.

[1:48:25] Does this look like, you know, when

[1:48:26] I get in Lyft, sometimes they're double

[1:48:28] checking to make I have to give them a code

[1:48:29] and do all these things to make sure I'm the rider

[1:48:32] And I would imagine VI is handled all that.

[1:48:35] And I only other thing I'd like to know

[1:48:37] is how you're getting from the airport to the hospital for 15

[1:48:40] bucks with local Uber or Lyft because right now I just looked

[1:48:43] at it.

[1:48:44] If I wanted to go home to railroad, it's 15 bucks

[1:48:46] and I don't often see it lower than $15.

[1:48:49] And this is down to do anything.

[1:48:51] Once or twice.

[1:48:52] Nine bucks is the cheapest I've seen it.

[1:48:55] Lyft generally is cheaper, it seems like, in our town

[1:48:58] than Uber.

[1:48:59] But that's a tangent or sidebar.

[1:49:01] Any other quick comments Just one thing to add.

[1:49:06] I think the benefit the after school activities kids getting

[1:49:09] to a job, if they have to wait for hours

[1:49:12] to get home they can never get to a job after school.

[1:49:14] And so on.

[1:49:15] That's if the grandparent or whatever isn't able to get them,

[1:49:18] as many grandparents have forever.

[1:49:21] That's really important use for this.

[1:49:23] I know we've received recent information from our county

[1:49:26] attorney about the board authority for oversight

[1:49:29] of budgets and school budgets being one of those.

[1:49:31] And if this is becoming a significant participation

[1:49:36] element in school transportation then they

[1:49:39] need to accommodate that.

[1:49:40] This is not something we should pay twice for and the i just am

[1:49:46] permanently scarred from the early 2000s,

[1:49:49] when it was $100 taxi ride for tourists from the airport

[1:49:53] to the army.

[1:49:54] Welcome to Albemarle.

[1:49:56] It was an awful.

[1:49:57] So I that regulation that's happened at the airport

[1:50:00] since then has helped with that somewhat.

[1:50:02] But this is all part of that same same stuff.

[1:50:07] So thank you.

[1:50:08] All right.

[1:50:09] Do we are we ready for motion?

[1:50:11] Who would like to make that motion?

[1:50:13] I'm just going to make a motion.

[1:50:14] Oh, sure I move that the board adopts the resolution

[1:50:21] to set the micro-cap fees Attachment a second.

[1:50:25] All right.

[1:50:26] The motion has been made and seconded.

[1:50:27] Without objection that the clerk will please call the roll

[1:50:30] Mr. Pizza.

[1:50:31] I miss Malik.

[1:50:32] Yes, Mr. Missal.

[1:50:33] All right, Mr. Pruitt.

[1:50:34] I miss Duncan Yes, Mr. Galloway.

[1:50:37] Yes.

[1:50:37] Very good.

[1:50:38] Thank you.

[1:50:39] Thank you both Thank you, Garland Yep.

[1:50:43] All right.

[1:50:43] Board will move to item number 11.

[1:50:45] And this is our work session on the 2027 draft

[1:50:48] Legislative priorities.

[1:50:50] We've got Mr. Herrick, Mr. Blunt and Ms..

[1:50:53] Kilroy i all with us today Yes Good afternoon And there you go.

[1:51:07] I need to take the training class again.

[1:51:09] I don't remember what we're supposed to do here.

[1:51:12] Emily Kilroy, director of economic development,

[1:51:14] joined by Andy Herrick and David Blunt

[1:51:16] for the second work session for your legislative priorities

[1:51:19] for the 2027 General Assembly legislative session Today,

[1:51:26] we'll go through some strategy updates for 2027.

[1:51:30] The draft documents that were part of your packet for today.

[1:51:33] And then the next steps taking us

[1:51:35] through the end of the calendar year and the 2027 strategy

[1:51:39] updates And this is the pie chart

[1:51:42] that we show at most of these work sessions and that talks

[1:51:45] about using the legislative program to focus

[1:51:48] on local albemarle specific items, leveraging in the region.

[1:51:53] The work that PVC does for regional items,

[1:51:55] and then leveraging Vigo and VML and others for statewide items

[1:52:00] to talk a little bit about some of the dynamics

[1:52:04] at play heading into 2027, I'm going

[1:52:07] to invite Mr. Blunt forward to talk more

[1:52:10] at a statewide level Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

[1:52:16] Members of the board, David Blunt with t.J. PVC,

[1:52:19] this is my one slide today.

[1:52:22] So i'll be very brief.

[1:52:24] Just kind of a big picture look at the upcoming general Assembly

[1:52:26] session at the beginning of 2027.

[1:52:30] As you may recall the odd numbered years are short

[1:52:34] sessions which means 46 days rather than the long session

[1:52:37] of 60 days with that short session does come some

[1:52:41] limitation is on the legislators in terms of the number of bills

[1:52:44] that they can introduce and for this upcoming session that will

[1:52:49] be 15 bills that can be introduced that are to be pre

[1:52:53] filed pre filed means that legislation is introduced

[1:52:58] by the morning of the first day of the session to get those

[1:53:02] bills rolling The legislators have a deadline of November 30th

[1:53:05] of which to request a draft of their bills from the Division

[1:53:08] of Legislative Services and then, as you know,

[1:53:12] where I guess a little over two months

[1:53:14] since the general Assembly finally adopted a budget

[1:53:18] and it was enacted just a day before the end

[1:53:20] of the fiscal year.

[1:53:22] Yet three months from now Governor Bambinger will

[1:53:26] be presenting proposed changes she is recommending

[1:53:29] to the legislature for the biennial budget

[1:53:33] that's in place and that will occur on December 17.

[1:53:36] Legislators then have a shot at submitting their own budget

[1:53:40] amendments.

[1:53:41] They will do that in early January.

[1:53:43] And they have to be submitted right after the beginning

[1:53:46] of the session.

[1:53:47] And then just to wrap it up, just the general overarching

[1:53:50] timeline, first day of the session is the second Wednesday

[1:53:53] of January the 13th.

[1:53:55] We get to what's called the crossover period February 9th is

[1:53:59] the Tuesday at which all bills and their originating chamber

[1:54:04] have to have been acted upon the following day.

[1:54:07] The 10th is when those bills actually quote unquote cross

[1:54:10] over to be considered by the opposite chamber.

[1:54:13] And then if all goes well adjournment would be scheduled

[1:54:19] for February the 27th.

[1:54:20] It's scheduled for 24 the 27th of February.

[1:54:24] But it seems to be more routine in recent years

[1:54:28] that the session is extended.

[1:54:30] So there was probably some extent incentive

[1:54:32] to get out on time in 2027 because the November

[1:54:36] 20, 27 elections will be coming up very quickly after that.

[1:54:41] So thank you.

[1:54:42] Be glad to answer any questions at the appropriate time

[1:54:49] I see that Miss Kilroy is volunteering

[1:54:51] or I think she's volunteering to move the slides for me.

[1:54:54] I'm next to Andy here at County Attorney

[1:54:56] and so I'm going to be walking a board through the materials that

[1:54:59] are attached to your pAC agenda package today.

[1:55:04] If you go to the next slide.

[1:55:06] So as we go through, it seemed it just so

[1:55:08] happens that all of our materials begin with p.

[1:55:11] We've got a legislative program that

[1:55:13] has a priority and a print and some principles,

[1:55:16] as well as a separate document with position ins.

[1:55:19] And I just want to explain what the principles and positions

[1:55:22] where the principles are that sort of the guiding

[1:55:25] ideas behind the county's legislative approach.

[1:55:29] What we would like for the legislators

[1:55:32] to remember as we go about the general Assembly session,

[1:55:36] the positions go more in depth.

[1:55:38] And so they're in sort of a separate separate document

[1:55:42] that we consider sort of an NXT the ledger,

[1:55:44] to the main legislative program that we

[1:55:46] have with the legislative program

[1:55:48] being Attachment A and the legislative positions

[1:55:51] or at least the draft versions of those being attached.

[1:55:53] And B, if you go to the next slide

[1:55:55] and so you can see here that the legislator two program consists

[1:55:58] of a legislative prior Te as well as legislative principles

[1:56:01] Next slide, please And the legislative priorities

[1:56:04] as we discussed at the initial session on this

[1:56:07] when we went into the 2026 General Assembly session,

[1:56:10] the county had four legislative priorities

[1:56:14] and we were very pleased to report that three of those

[1:56:17] had been adopted by the 2026 Assembly

[1:56:19] with the one out standing,

[1:56:20] one being the ability to use or expanded ability

[1:56:24] to use the photo speed monitoring devices

[1:56:28] The board gave us clear feedback at the prior work

[1:56:31] session that the board wanted us to continue with that

[1:56:35] as a priority So that has been retained as the county's

[1:56:39] legislative priority.

[1:56:40] In our first draft legislative program Next slide, please.

[1:56:44] And in addition, we have a list of Eight pro principles listed.

[1:56:49] Again, these are sort of the high, high level guiding concept

[1:56:56] that we have behind the legislative program

[1:56:59] dealing with economic development, growth management,

[1:57:01] environmental protection and land use, health

[1:57:03] and human services, housing local government finance

[1:57:07] public safety, solid waste and transport tation.

[1:57:10] Again, each of these has very high level ideas and concepts

[1:57:14] that we can pass along to legislators as they're

[1:57:17] considering various bills in the upcoming session Next slide.

[1:57:20] And then we go on to the legislative positions document.

[1:57:24] And again, this is more detailed We had scoped it down from,

[1:57:29] I believe 48 or 49 two years ago to 28 last year down to 26

[1:57:35] this year.

[1:57:35] We were able to address some broadband issues

[1:57:38] during the past year.

[1:57:40] And there are some broadband Internet access

[1:57:43] issues that remain this year as well as more detailed statements

[1:57:48] about economic development growth management, health

[1:57:51] and human services, housing, local government administration

[1:57:55] and finance and public safety.

[1:57:57] So you'll see some correlate action

[1:57:58] between these legislative positions

[1:58:00] and the legislative principles with these position positions

[1:58:04] being more in depth statement by next slide.

[1:58:09] So there were several proposals at the work session

[1:58:11] Supervisor Pruitt specifically made several requests regarding

[1:58:15] taxing authority bond authority, and I

[1:58:18] wanted to address why some of those

[1:58:20] had made it into our legislative positions.

[1:58:23] Documents and others had not.

[1:58:25] There is a suggestion in that counties have the same bond

[1:58:29] issuance be able to issue general obligation

[1:58:32] bonds without a referendum That is a power that

[1:58:36] counties currently have If they make a one time election to get

[1:58:40] the same authority as city asset in issuing

[1:58:44] that transitional authority would

[1:58:46] itself require a referendum.

[1:58:48] So in other words if the county were to go to county residents

[1:58:51] and ask for the authority to be treated as a city,

[1:58:55] the county could then issue general obligation bonds

[1:58:58] going forward without needing subsequent referenda If we were

[1:59:03] to seek for that, for counties statewide

[1:59:05] to have that authority would require

[1:59:07] a constitutional amendment.

[1:59:08] Not saying it can't be done.

[1:59:10] But that would be a heavier lift than than the county typically

[1:59:13] advocates for, at least as a matter of first impression

[1:59:16] in its legislative program.

[1:59:18] Another suggestion was that we look

[1:59:19] at decoupling machinery and tools, tax and personal property

[1:59:23] tax rates again, this is an idea where the current setup is

[1:59:27] that localities can have different rates for machinery

[1:59:31] and tools and for personal property tax,

[1:59:33] but the machinery and tools rate has to be lower.

[1:59:36] So this wouldn't require a constitutional amendment

[1:59:38] It would be sort of a new concept for state legislators

[1:59:41] that they probably haven't been introduced to previously.

[1:59:45] Again, not saying it can't be done,

[1:59:46] but it's typically not something that's

[1:59:48] undertaken as a matter of first impression in our

[1:59:51] in our legislative program, at least without further board

[1:59:53] discussion One item that we have incorporated in this draft

[1:59:59] legislative position is out of state vehicle tagging

[2:00:02] and that's especially relevant given the number of out of state

[2:00:06] students that are present in the county

[2:00:09] It is possible to seek that authority.

[2:00:13] Currently state law exempts vehicles

[2:00:17] that even though they may be regularly garage parked

[2:00:20] or stored in Albemarle County if they have out-of-state tags

[2:00:24] they are typically not taxed in Virginia.

[2:00:27] That could be changed at the state level

[2:00:29] we would need to avoid double taxation.

[2:00:31] We need to have we need to avoid a situation where somebody we're

[2:00:35] paying taxes in another state on a vehicle.

[2:00:38] And then also being subjected to the same taxes.

[2:00:41] In Virginia.

[2:00:42] It's possible, though, that the General Assembly

[2:00:44] could pass some sort of law giving folks a credit on taxes

[2:00:47] paid to other states.

[2:00:49] And then go ahead and tax them in Virginia for the difference.

[2:00:52] Anyway, something to consider And I know that in prior years,

[2:00:56] we've asked the General Assembly to study or cancel

[2:00:58] siddur certain ideas and so that's

[2:01:00] how staff is proposing that we put this

[2:01:03] as a position and the current legislative program

[2:01:05] asking the General Assembly to take a look at this

[2:01:08] at the possibility of taxing vehicles that are locally

[2:01:11] a garage parked or stored.

[2:01:13] But giving them a credit on taxes that they may

[2:01:15] have paid to other states Just as saying for the assembly

[2:01:18] to take a look at.

[2:01:19] So that's my part of the presentation.

[2:01:21] I'll turn it back over to Ms..

[2:01:23] Ms..

[2:01:23] Kilroy to continue State transportation funding

[2:01:28] has been important conversation that this board has brought

[2:01:32] forward that other local.

[2:01:34] These through the Virginia Association of Counties

[2:01:36] that may go.

[2:01:39] It's hard at the Virginia Association of Counties.

[2:01:42] It may go other localities across the Commonwealth

[2:01:45] have brought forward concerns about the level of state

[2:01:47] transportation funding that's available for local priorities

[2:01:52] I was able to attend a session put on by the Virginia Economic

[2:01:56] Developers Association, a couple of weeks ago,

[2:01:58] and they had several members of the governor's cabinet sharing

[2:02:03] information about what they were looking at,

[2:02:05] including the Secretary of Transportation.

[2:02:08] And so I perked up very hard when

[2:02:12] he began walking through the challenge

[2:02:15] that his secretary is facing understanding exactly

[2:02:19] as as you all have articulated over the years,

[2:02:22] that there is just not enough funding

[2:02:24] to go around for all of the local priorities that

[2:02:27] are occurring.

[2:02:28] And he did take a couple of minutes

[2:02:30] to share all of the things that the Commonwealth is,

[2:02:34] is taking on right now.

[2:02:36] There are a number of very large projects happening

[2:02:38] in different parts of the Commonwealth none focused

[2:02:41] here but in the 81 corridor, enhancements that

[2:02:45] were done to the Port of Virginia, the hampton Roads

[2:02:49] Bridge Tunnel Project, work on the in the Beltway area,

[2:02:55] passenger Amtrak rail improvements that

[2:02:58] are part of transportation funding

[2:03:00] have all or all projects that are underway or will get

[2:03:03] underway shortly And our massive transport nation projects

[2:03:07] for the Commonwealth And so that is having the impact of tying up

[2:03:12] a lot of construction dollars that that otherwise

[2:03:15] could be prioritized elsewhere in the Commonwealth.

[2:03:19] He also took a moment to talk about how

[2:03:21] the vitality statistics statewide continue

[2:03:24] to go in the wrong direction.

[2:03:26] So 2014 was the last downward trend

[2:03:29] year for transportation fatalities in the Commonwealth

[2:03:32] and since then they've risen every year

[2:03:35] and that is a deep concern for them.

[2:03:37] And so safety continues to be a big priority for them

[2:03:40] But he was sharing some data around the knee

[2:03:45] to the need for additional funds to be able to even tackle

[2:03:49] the maintenance obligations that Virginia

[2:03:51] Department of Transportation has before you even then get

[2:03:55] into new construction projects.

[2:03:57] So One of the things that he wanted us to walk away with,

[2:04:02] what did not feel like a good news presentation,

[2:04:05] was that this is something that the Commonwealth transportation

[2:04:08] Board is focusing their work plan this year on talking

[2:04:12] about and trying to address They have had a couple of meetings

[2:04:15] already and will continue to sort of work

[2:04:17] through different scenarios For right now, that

[2:04:21] has a way that they program maintenance dollars

[2:04:24] and then construction dollars afterwards.

[2:04:26] Looking at what are the assumptions that

[2:04:29] go into how that those decisions are made,

[2:04:31] Does that need to be revisited and/or are there new funds

[2:04:36] necessary And how do you go about getting those?

[2:04:39] And so he encouraged everyone who

[2:04:41] has a concern in this area to engage with their Commonwealth

[2:04:44] transportation and board representative.

[2:04:46] There's a new representative for the Culpeper district

[2:04:49] that was appointed in June.

[2:04:52] And so that is one follow up that we

[2:04:54] wanted to put before the board today is

[2:04:56] that's that's a step that we could

[2:04:57] take to continue to raise this issue with the General Assembly.

[2:05:02] But also with our Commonwealth transportation board

[2:05:04] representative, vertical before district.

[2:05:07] And that's something that we've not done formally in the past,

[2:05:10] but we certainly are happy to to do in partnership

[2:05:12] with the board, if so desired The final slide that we have

[2:05:18] on this portion of the slide deck is just on part of we

[2:05:22] spoke last time about how the Charlottesville Albemarle

[2:05:26] regional Trans Transportation Authority has it

[2:05:33] was created with authority That was provided

[2:05:35] by the general Assembly.

[2:05:37] So several years ago, it was established

[2:05:40] in 2025 and sort of following the regional transportation

[2:05:44] partnership effort that preceded it.

[2:05:46] And they are currently working through an implementation

[2:05:51] strategy to follow that vision plan works

[2:05:54] that had been completed and they are continuing

[2:05:56] to sort of work through what are the right prioritized scenarios

[2:05:59] the cost estimates that go with those and refining that list.

[2:06:04] Again, stakeholder input that they're

[2:06:06] that they've been seeking.

[2:06:08] And so last work session on this topic, we talked about them.

[2:06:14] It may this year may not be the year

[2:06:15] for a formal legislative priority ask

[2:06:18] but that we know that the first year that you

[2:06:19] ask for something you're doing a lot of familiarization

[2:06:23] and awareness building and so this year may be a good year

[2:06:26] to get a head start on that familiar familiarization

[2:06:29] and awareness with the local delegates.

[2:06:32] And as we as we continue to sort of follow with the work

[2:06:36] that Carter is doing directly on what could

[2:06:39] be an ask in a future year.

[2:06:41] And so that is just sort of outlining

[2:06:43] the approach of sort of setting that baseline

[2:06:46] with the local delegation.

[2:06:47] This year, again, in anticipation

[2:06:49] that a formal request would be coming when timely I'll

[2:06:57] hit the next steps and then open it up for discussion if that

[2:07:00] pleases the board.

[2:07:01] OK So our final work session on legislative priorities

[2:07:06] is scheduled for your October 21 meeting

[2:07:08] and the hope there would be that you all would be in a position

[2:07:11] to adopt the positions and policy statements at that time

[2:07:16] and that we could then sort of peel off and set up meetings

[2:07:19] with legislators for that late October, early November time

[2:07:22] frame in order to meet the pre filing deadline

[2:07:26] that they have for introducing bills and that we would

[2:07:31] depending on how when we can schedule the legislative forum

[2:07:33] session,

[2:07:34] we would work through if there's some pre

[2:07:37] meeting with the local delegates individually ahead

[2:07:40] of that to ensure that we don't miss

[2:07:43] important times in their process And so the meeting

[2:07:47] with legislators is a time where we staff and the board

[2:07:51] together present legislative priorities.

[2:07:54] Time for you all to share concerns and information

[2:07:56] on transportation and statewide.

[2:07:58] And as progress and also time for the legislators

[2:08:01] to share some of their priorities heading into session.

[2:08:04] That is all of the slides that we have,

[2:08:06] but happy to hear you're also feedback.

[2:08:08] All right.

[2:08:09] We've got a lot.

[2:08:10] We've had some conversations.

[2:08:11] Supervisor malik, I guess I'll just It's all you can eat.

[2:08:14] Yeah And then we'll go along So thank you very much.

[2:08:19] I'll just right off the top, the format of 11 a I really

[2:08:23] like that and hopefully we could put that

[2:08:25] on a hard palm card vertical way more of bigger

[2:08:29] print than the little tiny business card size thing.

[2:08:32] And Phil North can't get away with being the only one around

[2:08:35] in the General Assembly.

[2:08:36] Man.

[2:08:36] So those things out there are fabulous.

[2:08:38] So that was great.

[2:08:39] Now let me jump back to the top of my list here.

[2:08:43] What was remove on broadband?

[2:08:46] I believe it had to do with the Albemarle specific provisions

[2:08:49] about deploying broadband Now, Monroe County, I

[2:08:52] think we took a look at that and saw that basically that had been

[2:08:55] something where essentially the mission had been accomplished

[2:08:58] during the past year except of a thousand

[2:09:01] people in the northwest part of the county.

[2:09:03] And we are under absolute deluge with SEC and FCC

[2:09:07] and having to fight this battle ourselves.

[2:09:09] And so it would be really nice not to just say the battle

[2:09:12] is over from the county perspective.

[2:09:14] So I'll throw that back out there for somebody else

[2:09:17] to think about, because this has been going on for years.

[2:09:20] And it's getting worse and worse every day.

[2:09:23] Every time it rains, nobody can call the ambulance,

[2:09:25] for crying out loud.

[2:09:27] So that that is really a big problem

[2:09:29] And I've raised that multiple times when

[2:09:31] there have been the citations the resolution

[2:09:34] we did that, people need to be aware that we're not done.

[2:09:38] Now Yeah, the okay with the double text

[2:09:46] version of the vehicles.

[2:09:47] I thought there was already a law that required three months.

[2:09:50] Was the only window you got before you

[2:09:53] were required If you're living here

[2:09:54] to register your car in Virginia and Massachusetts,

[2:09:58] where I my children went to school in Vermont, they do this.

[2:10:01] So I don't know why we can enforce that somehow.

[2:10:03] The site is laws are very complicated,

[2:10:05] but but basically, Virginia does not

[2:10:08] tax if you're domiciled in another state

[2:10:10] and show that you have paid taxes

[2:10:13] to another state you are currently exempt outright

[2:10:15] from Virginia.

[2:10:16] Personal property taxes What we're asking the General

[2:10:19] Assembly to study is to make that a credit rather

[2:10:22] than an outright tax exemption In Virginia,

[2:10:24] if I may out of state domiciliary renting here.

[2:10:28] And they're here as students or renting an apartment,

[2:10:30] they're here.

[2:10:31] They're voting here.

[2:10:32] They're not domiciled here under the law.

[2:10:34] They're domiciled in their home.

[2:10:35] Even if they're voting here.

[2:10:37] The same applies to military personnel and corporate persons.

[2:10:40] So fleet vehicles, which is also a scam because people

[2:10:44] don't vote.

[2:10:45] All those hundreds of job trucks and stuff that run around

[2:10:51] and they're registered there some guys.

[2:10:54] That's why.

[2:10:55] And then they don't pay the commercial rates.

[2:10:58] I mean, the whole thing is a big can of worms.

[2:11:01] So I'm really sorry that we're still

[2:11:03] allowing ourselves to be trampled on

[2:11:05] with that can't do anything about that amendment

[2:11:07] of the transportation things.

[2:11:09] Are you going to bring up your things separately?

[2:11:11] OK.

[2:11:12] Well, I very much will support that.

[2:11:14] But our new CTB member, Jim Roy, we

[2:11:17] had a great conversation a few weeks ago.

[2:11:20] I gave him my bill's moment as what

[2:11:22] is needed here because in 86, 40 years ago, our governor

[2:11:28] at the time 5 billion, $5 billion over 12 years

[2:11:32] was what those taxes raise.

[2:11:33] And it is time for the general Assembly to do that again.

[2:11:36] And the governor to do that again.

[2:11:38] And I hope we will tell her.

[2:11:40] But he, Jim Malloy, explained everyone that he very much wants

[2:11:43] to be in touch with local board members individually

[2:11:46] or group as fine, often quarterly at least,

[2:11:50] and wants to know what we need.

[2:11:53] So he can do his best job to represent our needs.

[2:11:56] When it gets down to the push and shove it at the CTB

[2:12:00] But he described in detail the lack of maintenance dollars

[2:12:03] because maintenance costs have escalated so greatly

[2:12:06] that just like in 2009, during the recession,

[2:12:09] it just ate up all the construction money

[2:12:11] So just like RCMP having to pay for the courts

[2:12:14] in the schools and all this other stuff,

[2:12:16] all these hampton Roads Tunnel and the Wilson Bridge and all

[2:12:19] these other things are still on the V IP

[2:12:22] and that's eating up their ability

[2:12:24] to do anything I'm very concerned about the timetable

[2:12:31] because every year for the last 15 years,

[2:12:33] our legislators have said October is too late

[2:12:37] So I would say we need to have this absolute delay as fast

[2:12:40] as possible because there already

[2:12:43] making a list of their 15 bills by August or July or whatever.

[2:12:47] So others have been contacting them regularly

[2:12:50] and we are missing our window.

[2:12:52] If we wait until November to say anything

[2:12:54] and they've told this to our faces over and over

[2:12:56] again about that So I hope that we'll figure out

[2:13:00] a way to have if we can get somebody

[2:13:02] on a Tuesday and somebody out Thursday,

[2:13:04] and we'll just have special meetings to go meet with them.

[2:13:07] I mean, I hope that we'll get there.

[2:13:09] This year in the sort of more.

[2:13:14] That's the local stuff.

[2:13:15] Now for the statewide things, a lot of these

[2:13:18] would go probably tobacco and others.

[2:13:22] But I think it's important.

[2:13:23] I mean, I will have raised them in the past as an individual,

[2:13:27] just have concerns with local delegates.

[2:13:29] And I think it's important that they know the

[2:13:34] and I'll just mention them now, just so others know as well,

[2:13:37] the need for updated best management practices in forestry

[2:13:41] in Virginia Potato right when she

[2:13:44] was secretary of forestry years and years ago

[2:13:45] said they were working on it.

[2:13:47] But nothing's been changed since 1986

[2:13:49] and it's totally had no correlation to the way

[2:13:52] forestry is practice today.

[2:13:55] So in the old days people, they took the logs,

[2:13:58] they left the slash, the branches and all that stuff

[2:14:00] laying down on the property, which provided some erosion

[2:14:02] protection.

[2:14:04] And now they ship all that stuff into teeny weeny pellets

[2:14:07] for people Seattle stoves and export it to Europe and stuff

[2:14:10] like that, which means you have acres of land

[2:14:13] often on very steep slopes completely naked.

[2:14:18] When these rains that are coming through.

[2:14:20] So I will just use the Dalles River in Whitehall

[2:14:23] as the example, which has been one of our very best water

[2:14:27] quality for 30 years, comes out Headwaters are up

[2:14:30] in the Shenandoah National Park, but a improperly put

[2:14:34] in and totally unapproved lumber access road vertical straight up

[2:14:41] the hill 40% grade and now there's mobs of sediment

[2:14:45] just floating down the Dallas River

[2:14:47] and going to go into the Mormons and into the South work.

[2:14:49] And this is sort of a terrible example

[2:14:52] of how we've lost in the first ten years of the south Fork

[2:14:57] Reservoir.

[2:14:57] We lost 40% of our capacity due to sedimentation

[2:15:00] So this is on the state docket, but it's something

[2:15:04] that i hope we will continue to think about

[2:15:06] as we deal with these things.

[2:15:08] Anything we can on the local level,

[2:15:10] it's a real burden for our local zoning people.

[2:15:12] They have to run out there with the state forest, the county

[2:15:14] forester and try to get these things under control

[2:15:17] But after the fact.

[2:15:18] It's almost impossible Planning District Commission, Solid Waste

[2:15:22] Management plan was in your packet for somewhere today,

[2:15:28] I guess the and this is from the Swac committee.

[2:15:33] One real difficulty is we don't have

[2:15:35] adequate records, registration of our private haulers

[2:15:38] nor do we have authority.

[2:15:40] I guess, to make them report.

[2:15:44] And so this is an Andy question.

[2:15:46] Do we have authority to require this?

[2:15:48] And we just haven't done it?

[2:15:50] I'd need to look into that.

[2:15:51] I understand.

[2:15:52] To offer a future.

[2:15:53] These people are not paying county taxes

[2:15:54] for doing business in the county,

[2:15:56] and they're not providing data to the PVC

[2:15:58] to be able to then meet the state obligation for.

[2:16:02] I mean, our reports have been woefully inadequate for decades

[2:16:04] because we have this run amok situation

[2:16:08] with the private haulers.

[2:16:10] A few, including the little guys,

[2:16:12] you know, out in the country Our register read and do report.

[2:16:16] And I'm very grateful Thank you very much for that.

[2:16:19] Including the bottle bill thing in the environmental thing.

[2:16:22] I really appreciate that.

[2:16:24] And I've sent it on to the swag committee

[2:16:27] so they will know that that is in there.

[2:16:29] And that's something that's also on the agenda for discussion

[2:16:33] for the Yellow Committee And they go in November

[2:16:36] and hopefully we'll be able to get some other counties

[2:16:38] interested in going backwards to the 50s where when we had all

[2:16:42] those things which were really great.

[2:16:44] And i will stop there.

[2:16:52] Thank you very much Thank you.

[2:16:54] Supervisor Duncan Oh, and I'm sorry.

[2:17:00] So before as you go around.

[2:17:02] And if there are other topics that supervisors

[2:17:04] speak to just offer that you don't have

[2:17:08] any objection to anything you've heard

[2:17:09] from anyone else that will help as kind of keep track of where

[2:17:12] we're going relative to.

[2:17:13] So we don't have to talk about every single thing,

[2:17:15] just if you object to something that bring that up.

[2:17:18] Sorry, go ahead.

[2:17:19] Is then is the no objection period We need to say not.

[2:17:22] No, I'm not.

[2:17:23] Just just talk If you object to something

[2:17:25] you heard ahead of you, then at the end, we can all go.

[2:17:28] Must be consensus because nobody object.

[2:17:31] I was this is my first time for this.

[2:17:33] And so i'm sort of learning just kind of coming at it.

[2:17:40] You know, with the super, it just

[2:17:42] seems I don't know if this is normal or not,

[2:17:44] but it assumes interesting to have a list of 26 positions

[2:17:48] when they can only offer up 15 bills.

[2:17:50] And so it just feels like a lot.

[2:17:52] And I mean, obviously there's a lot of things we care about.

[2:17:55] I'm just sort of curious if that's

[2:17:57] standard practice for counties to have such a long list

[2:17:59] or if it's better to make it shorter

[2:18:02] And then just my other opposite reason for reading through these

[2:18:06] is a lot of these make me feel like Oliver Twist.

[2:18:09] Please sir, can I have some more authority And there

[2:18:13] a simple solution to a lot of these requests.

[2:18:16] Yeah.

[2:18:17] And convince them of that.

[2:18:18] It's like i am probably going to North Carolina

[2:18:21] and we'll be paying attention to both of.

[2:18:24] The thing I would add about having that many physicians

[2:18:27] because we try to bring up certain things relative

[2:18:31] to bills, but what the legislators will often do

[2:18:35] is like, let's say Senator Deeds is here

[2:18:37] and he sees one of our 26 items and he'll say, you know what?

[2:18:41] There's some momentum coming out of wherever.

[2:18:44] And then he can track that.

[2:18:46] That's important to us, too.

[2:18:48] He doesn't necessarily have to expend One of his slots,

[2:18:51] but compile on the support over there if he knows it's there.

[2:18:55] So to not have it kind of limits you

[2:18:57] in that kind of wheeling and dealing.

[2:18:59] I guess that happens.

[2:19:00] But point taken Yeah.

[2:19:03] And I'll just add from his Duncan's benefit, the it.

[2:19:08] We don't always know until set until all the Bills have

[2:19:11] been published.

[2:19:12] We don't always know what all the topics that'll

[2:19:14] be before the General Assembly are.

[2:19:17] And so staff uses the that section

[2:19:20] that positions and policy statements work too.

[2:19:23] If we get a call of well, how does Albemarle

[2:19:25] feel about this will look there to say well actually okay

[2:19:29] we think we do see where the position would be on that.

[2:19:32] And sometimes the answer is we're still not sure.

[2:19:34] And we have to make some phone calls Supervisor Pruitt,

[2:19:38] I would further add to the conversation that's already

[2:19:41] going the very pithy way I think of it

[2:19:43] is the legislative program is telling them what to file

[2:19:46] and the legislative positions.

[2:19:48] It's telling them how to vote on things that other people

[2:19:50] file, which is mostly true or not perfect, but mostly i

[2:19:58] want to begin by concurring with Supervisor Mallex position

[2:20:05] that our timetable is and I know it's challenging,

[2:20:08] I know there's budget, but it's woefully inadequate.

[2:20:10] We need to begin this process basically the moment

[2:20:13] we have a legislative debrief from previous session,

[2:20:16] I met with Senator Deeds Friday and he had just

[2:20:21] come from a meeting of the legislative positions.

[2:20:25] I work session with the city.

[2:20:27] And he told them i have already the early bird filing

[2:20:31] deadline has already passed and I am almost at capacity.

[2:20:34] So a lot of this is not feasible that was last week so

[2:20:40] that it does these deadlines come up quick

[2:20:45] and by November, people already have their bills

[2:20:49] late almost entirely And there's not much flexibility.

[2:20:52] And we're really kind of playing with stragglers

[2:20:55] or if someone wants to trade a bill that they're already

[2:20:57] bringing to their friend who is going

[2:20:59] to co patron it because they have some opening

[2:21:03] So I would say that's a very urgent.

[2:21:06] I will I want to talk about specifically

[2:21:11] because our policy positions i think are pretty fixed

[2:21:14] and don't move that much year to year.

[2:21:16] So I'm going to specifically and exclusively talk

[2:21:19] about the legislative program, the things we want to file,

[2:21:21] rather than the things we're telling people

[2:21:23] how to vote yes on I would request to the board

[2:21:29] and suggest that up.

[2:21:31] I don't disagree that the mentee decoupling is a new issue.

[2:21:36] I think it is something that we have a policy window for right

[2:21:39] now because the big sexy thing that

[2:21:43] is going to dominate discourse is about revenue and data

[2:21:48] centers MMT is the primary local tax

[2:21:51] source related to data centers.

[2:21:53] And there is a clear through line.

[2:21:55] And there's frankly, I think, a political talking point

[2:21:59] because i see 70 being set to necessarily

[2:22:02] at or below personal property as a Republican dead hand

[2:22:07] guidance It is a limitation on corporate taxation

[2:22:12] that is being realized in the future.

[2:22:14] And you if you get a majority that's eager to make change,

[2:22:18] I think there's a policy window between data centers that

[2:22:21] and localities saying we want more that

[2:22:24] makes this a compelling issue.

[2:22:26] Maybe something that doesn't move forward,

[2:22:28] but there are special workgroups brought up

[2:22:30] around data centers and finance that we

[2:22:32] can inject this issue into.

[2:22:34] But me having individual conversations

[2:22:37] with senators calls in and deeds who I will also

[2:22:40] say this was the most interesting

[2:22:43] of the various things I've talked about Having

[2:22:46] those individual conversation is not

[2:22:47] going to elevate it to the degree

[2:22:49] that I think we would need If we want to inject this

[2:22:51] into those conversations around finance

[2:22:55] and actually get some attention on this issue.

[2:22:57] So I would i would ask that the board consider adding this

[2:23:01] to our program.

[2:23:03] I would also suggest the program is

[2:23:07] a way for us to elevate priorities of things That's

[2:23:09] asking for things to be filed.

[2:23:11] I appreciate the discussion that we had.

[2:23:13] And I know it's in our positions about transportation funding.

[2:23:16] This has been the clearest and most consistent thing

[2:23:18] that the board has said in the past two years.

[2:23:22] And what we'd for where the Transportation

[2:23:26] Board for our local district are going

[2:23:28] to tell us and all the things they're doing

[2:23:29] is always going to be based on what they've been allocated.

[2:23:33] And it's missing the question of how much

[2:23:35] are we actually allocate into road construction through Vdot

[2:23:38] And that conversation needs to be with legislators.

[2:23:41] And I think that means we need to elevate that in our

[2:23:44] in our transportation or in our legislative program

[2:23:48] a specific request for funding.

[2:23:50] I think there's also and I'll just say this

[2:23:52] because I've got the talking stick,

[2:23:53] I think there is an important piece of storytelling that can

[2:23:59] be done around this right now.

[2:24:01] The big sexy thing that everyone wants to solve is housing.

[2:24:06] It is something that's a majority is really

[2:24:10] eager to show movement on.

[2:24:11] And the main way they have to look

[2:24:13] at that is through preemption and in localities

[2:24:16] and trying to incentivize more growth in specific localities

[2:24:20] that look like us, that look like Chesterfield, that look

[2:24:24] like Spotsylvania I can tell you right now, you know,

[2:24:28] my organization is working on lobbying.

[2:24:31] Chester field, who's doing it down,

[2:24:34] zoning across their whole county right now.

[2:24:36] And the main argument that Chesterfield right now

[2:24:39] is bringing up is we have too much traffic

[2:24:42] on this area that is zoned high density and not yet developed.

[2:24:46] This is a through line that we hear from our constituents

[2:24:49] when we explore higher density developments

[2:24:52] in more of the suburban fringe.

[2:24:54] And I'm sure it's something these other suburban localities,

[2:24:57] which are the place where most growth is happening

[2:25:00] in the Commonwealth and it's poised

[2:25:02] to happen And the political stifling is coming

[2:25:05] from transportation So I think there's a very

[2:25:08] clear through line that a democratic majority is

[2:25:11] interested in housing But because transportation funding

[2:25:14] is parochial and they mostly represent

[2:25:16] cities that pay for their own transportation

[2:25:20] or have transit systems, there is not that parochial interest

[2:25:24] in beat up funding.

[2:25:25] I think this helps create that clear through line

[2:25:28] of how we connect their priorities

[2:25:31] as urban representatives as people who might not represent

[2:25:35] constituents that depend on Dot funding to their priorities

[2:25:40] Right?

[2:25:41] Like your priority is housing to do housing

[2:25:44] you need this I think that's a really compelling case that we

[2:25:48] can make, and I think we're uniquely well positioned

[2:25:50] to make that case as a non urban locality that is growing

[2:25:56] and that also, frankly it is predominantly democratic.

[2:26:01] There's a very finite number of those

[2:26:03] that can make that argument.

[2:26:04] I think we should be making that argument Lastly, and this.

[2:26:11] I would not expect the board to act on this today.

[2:26:14] I would I would ask that the board chew on this

[2:26:16] and maybe think about it before we

[2:26:18] adopt our legislative position, because the language itself

[2:26:20] is really simple.

[2:26:22] I think it can sometimes be nice to add to our program, something

[2:26:26] that we know is moving forward.

[2:26:28] But as a statement of values and priorities and I

[2:26:33] think it is prudent for us for the same kind

[2:26:35] of political incentives.

[2:26:36] I was just talking about to say something about housing,

[2:26:41] I might suggest that this board endorse expansion

[2:26:45] and continuation of the 5,000 families program.

[2:26:49] This is a state pilot voucher program that does what it says

[2:26:54] it's got do it is a state level voucher for 5,000 families.

[2:26:58] It was approved in the last budget.

[2:27:00] It is a simple as in.

[2:27:02] It's a clean ask It is a complicated ask

[2:27:04] for the legislators because they've got to find the money.

[2:27:07] But it is it would significantly expand the number of people

[2:27:11] who are able to actually afford housing in this Commonwealth.

[2:27:16] And it would be a simple thing for us to ask for.

[2:27:18] And it would help elevate this kind of wonky program

[2:27:21] that really just does the simple key thing that most people need

[2:27:25] to access housing, which is give them money to access housing.

[2:27:30] So I would ask that you chew on that

[2:27:32] and consider whether or not that would be something

[2:27:35] you'd be interested to add to the legislative program

[2:27:38] The M.A. we've talked about it multiple times on this board

[2:27:42] during my time here, I would ask that we

[2:27:45] consider adding that today Supervisor Mitchell Thank you.

[2:27:51] I'm in the same boat as Supervisor Duncan

[2:27:54] in a lot of ways, so I'll ask a few questions

[2:27:57] and one is I'll just kind of sort of riff on what

[2:28:01] you were just talking about.

[2:28:02] The affordable housing piece.

[2:28:05] And let me ask a general question

[2:28:06] So I'm looking at the 2027 legislative program, which

[2:28:09] is attachment A, I think that's where

[2:28:11] we're those are where we're asking questions and adding

[2:28:14] suggestions to.

[2:28:15] Correct.

[2:28:16] OK So on there, it does talk about affordable housing

[2:28:18] because I was wondering the same thing.

[2:28:20] It's very general support legislation

[2:28:22] that promotes the production of preservation

[2:28:23] of affordable housing whether through state support

[2:28:26] or enhanced enabling authority.

[2:28:28] Do we need to add more detail to it like you're suggesting,

[2:28:31] or is that enough to cover at this level

[2:28:34] those types of programs?

[2:28:37] If the questions to me, I would say we

[2:28:39] have a limited amount of time.

[2:28:41] And sometimes it comes down to what are the five things

[2:28:43] we're asking for this year ?

[2:28:45] OK, we have a bullet of normally specific bills.

[2:28:48] So it's appropriate to get more specific in each one

[2:28:51] of these categories.

[2:28:51] If if necessary.

[2:28:52] That's what I'm just and I don't want to get out of turn

[2:28:55] without trying to make this money

[2:28:57] or disagreeing with stuff Yeah, I'm

[2:28:58] just asking that question to sort of craft

[2:29:01] my other comments as well Yeah.

[2:29:02] And I think I would offer that if and when there

[2:29:05] is a very specific item to borrow Mr. Pruitt's language

[2:29:10] to ask them to introduce as a bill.

[2:29:12] Yeah, it's it would be appropriate to say,

[2:29:14] let's add that to let's add this very specific thing

[2:29:17] to the program.

[2:29:18] It's where it's items where the board is broad and supportive

[2:29:23] of action in that area, but does not

[2:29:26] have a specific solution in mind where the positions and policies

[2:29:31] statements will sort of lean into those But if you know,

[2:29:33] if housing Albemarle had a very specific state code

[2:29:37] change that would really help advance that work.

[2:29:40] If we would recommend that the board add that specifically

[2:29:43] to the program So that's something

[2:29:45] that we could ask our local delegation to introduce Okay.

[2:29:48] Well, then I'll ask these questions just

[2:29:50] for what it's worth, and maybe, maybe some of them are,

[2:29:53] are a little bit outside of what this is intended to be.

[2:29:56] But I'll just throw them out there

[2:29:57] One is the photo speed camera piece.

[2:30:00] I'm just curious why limit the eligibility to 35mph higher?

[2:30:04] Because there are other areas where there are 25mph or less,

[2:30:08] whether it's schools or other locations,

[2:30:12] rural communities etc., that it may apply to.

[2:30:15] Is there a reason that we cut it at 35?

[2:30:17] It's a max There's a max low as well.

[2:30:20] Oh, and below.

[2:30:21] OK, gotcha.

[2:30:21] OK.

[2:30:22] So it could be on other roads that are below the 35.

[2:30:26] It's not just 30.

[2:30:26] Mike, thank you The housing section.

[2:30:30] I think there's one thing that we've

[2:30:31] talked a little bit about here, and I

[2:30:34] don't know if it's worth putting in because the language speaks

[2:30:36] to most of the funding but I just don't want us to lose track

[2:30:41] of the importance of having a streamlined review

[2:30:44] process and possible incentives for affordable housing

[2:30:48] and whether that gets added to that housing section in terms

[2:30:51] of support.

[2:30:52] So state support enhanced enabling

[2:30:54] authority, streamlined review process

[2:30:56] and potential incentives.

[2:30:58] I think would be helpful You know the discussion that we're

[2:31:05] talking about relative to mostly in southern albemarle

[2:31:08] and the case for some of that fun stuff,

[2:31:10] talking about stream preservation,

[2:31:12] we now have a riparian buffer ordinance,

[2:31:14] which I think is very helpful.

[2:31:17] I don't know if the environment if there's anything in here that

[2:31:20] should be considered in terms of sediment,

[2:31:24] erosion control, those types of things As as a broader subject

[2:31:28] to consider And I think that I would also

[2:31:35] echo the broadband piece.

[2:31:37] I know we've been part of that.

[2:31:40] I think Supervisor Brewer and I have been part of those meetings

[2:31:43] and has seen the progress.

[2:31:45] But the supervisor advisor, Mallex comments that still not

[2:31:49] complete.

[2:31:49] So I don't know if we want to completely take it off

[2:31:51] or if we feel like the programs that we have in place have

[2:31:54] enough traction and momentum to get the job done,

[2:31:58] or if we need to continue to push that, that's it.

[2:32:02] That's supervisor opposed to currently.

[2:32:05] Okay.

[2:32:05] First of all, I just want to clarify if I misunderstood,

[2:32:08] but for the photo speed cameras is

[2:32:11] for it applies only to segments and secondary roads

[2:32:15] having posted speeds of 35 miles or higher it does

[2:32:19] say it does set with speed side.

[2:32:22] Yeah Composite crash fatalities supports

[2:32:25] and everything like that.

[2:32:26] So your point can be lower.

[2:32:28] We we don't know yet.

[2:32:29] We haven't gotten anywhere with this despite you know,

[2:32:34] we've been to Richmond, we've spoken to the committee

[2:32:37] and everything.

[2:32:38] But hopefully maybe it will gain some traction

[2:32:41] because I think this is something

[2:32:43] that the rural areas are asking a lot.

[2:32:45] And I think it should go more so to some of the smaller roads

[2:32:50] right now, secondary roads.

[2:32:52] But having said that, again I think i can't.

[2:33:01] Oh, I regarding Amtrak, well, first of all,

[2:33:04] I like the whole agenda, so that's not a problem.

[2:33:07] I like the whole agenda.

[2:33:09] I just have a couple of questions The Amtrak improvement

[2:33:14] does that affect us?

[2:33:18] Yes So when all of the capital projects that are currently

[2:33:23] being undertaken are complete, that

[2:33:26] provides capacity for Amtrak passenger rail service

[2:33:30] to allow a second train from the Charlottesville station

[2:33:34] to that heads up to Washington, D.C. And beyond.

[2:33:38] And then it also opens up some opportunity is across

[2:33:44] across the commonwealth And I don't know Mr. Blunt knows more.

[2:33:48] Yeah, but there's the capital projects for Amtrak

[2:33:51] will provide additional service for Charlottesville.

[2:33:54] OK So that's that's good.

[2:33:57] I agree regarding the legislative deadlines

[2:34:01] and I and I think we're we're aware we've been doing

[2:34:05] this for several years now.

[2:34:07] We're we're always coming into late.

[2:34:09] So how that gets fixed, I don't know.

[2:34:11] But it's been a few years that we keep saying that.

[2:34:15] Also regarding broadband that was

[2:34:17] supposed to have been completed for the county

[2:34:21] last December of 25.

[2:34:22] Now they're saying spring of 27 for the complete year.

[2:34:27] And we do have some real outliers

[2:34:30] there with like a three mile long driveway that

[2:34:33] is proving very challenging But it's now

[2:34:36] supposed to be spring of 27.

[2:34:38] So hopefully the Northwest area of Albemarle

[2:34:42] gets taken care of But those just those comments.

[2:34:47] But I do approve of what I didn't I did want to ask

[2:34:52] supervisor Pruitt though you mentioned 5,000.

[2:34:55] It helps that the state has a program for 5,000 vouchers

[2:35:01] program is called 5,000 families.

[2:35:04] It is that local.

[2:35:05] It it's a state administered voucher program.

[2:35:08] Similar to the housing choice voucher program.

[2:35:10] And that was created through the budget this year,

[2:35:13] statewide or locality based I believe

[2:35:16] it is statewide and dispersed as state vouchers through the local

[2:35:22] So we administer them.

[2:35:23] But i don't want to get over my skis.

[2:35:25] It's brand new.

[2:35:26] I'm not even sure if vouchers are live on it yet.

[2:35:29] Okay.

[2:35:29] And we don't know if they're going to allocate so many

[2:35:32] per area, you know, for city or county.

[2:35:37] Okay But I mean, that sounds like a good program That's all.

[2:35:42] Thank you.

[2:35:44] I just want can I circle back around on broadband

[2:35:47] because I realize I didn't talk about it I just want to one,

[2:35:51] clarify and kind of add a little bit more texture to what

[2:35:54] supervisor Pistole currently was saying about what

[2:35:56] the current status of deployment is

[2:36:00] and how I think that should affect our positions.

[2:36:02] Statement So Body 2021 is our primary vehicle

[2:36:07] for funding the existing expansion

[2:36:12] that's going to cover 99.9% of the county and the main outlier

[2:36:17] and remaining work to be done is correct.

[2:36:20] The early civil service area, which is probably getting

[2:36:24] deployed before spring because they

[2:36:26] want to get their money, which they

[2:36:27] can't get their money for it.

[2:36:29] If they go past the end of the year.

[2:36:32] But that is in process and is already program.

[2:36:35] There are not more houses that are

[2:36:36] going to be coming out of that.

[2:36:37] There's then an additional something like 1,400 households

[2:36:41] that are going to remain unserved.

[2:36:44] Most of those are getting picked up in be said.

[2:36:47] That is the federal program that's

[2:36:49] going to take a longer cool down time.

[2:36:51] But we have done our piece in administering

[2:36:54] that And those most of those will get additionally served.

[2:36:58] There are few pulled out of that that

[2:37:00] would remain unserved, which we are currently identifying

[2:37:04] how we could best serve them for a round of funding of 80 2026.

[2:37:09] This is all just to say, I think we actually have our Vanessa.

[2:37:12] It's a rare thing for me to say.

[2:37:14] I think we have the funding vehicles.

[2:37:16] I think it's just a matter of remaining implementation

[2:37:19] and so I would concur with staff that I

[2:37:22] don't think we need to request funding on that still.

[2:37:26] I think it's important that we still have a request in there.

[2:37:29] But I think we need to be talking about affordability.

[2:37:32] Consumer Protection and reliability

[2:37:35] which I would suggest means more than digital equity

[2:37:39] to someone who's going to read this.

[2:37:41] But that is digital equity.

[2:37:43] So it just might be prudent to I know.

[2:37:46] Mr..

[2:37:47] And if went has used that language because that

[2:37:50] is the language of the trade I might suggest.

[2:37:55] I'm not sure delegate Laufer knows what it means

[2:37:59] when you say it Digital equity.

[2:38:02] And so maybe we should say broadband affordability,

[2:38:05] broadband, consumer protection funding

[2:38:08] and broadband reliability Sorry.

[2:38:12] Thank you.

[2:38:13] Yeah In the interest of time, I won't do any transfer station

[2:38:19] lectures today, but the bus, I think speaking to the timing,

[2:38:25] I think that man, the whole piece

[2:38:28] of your too late coming in, and meeting this goes back back

[2:38:31] to when I was on the school board

[2:38:33] and was being told the same thing as a school board.

[2:38:35] And what is the primary obstacle?

[2:38:38] It's getting us all together at the same time.

[2:38:40] As always, the scheduling conundrum.

[2:38:42] So why are we not just going to by twos

[2:38:44] with individual legislators?

[2:38:47] We could take the supervisors who are the best on the topic.

[2:38:50] So if we did, mentee might could be on that two by 2.

[2:38:53] We've just been volunteer aired meet with an individual One

[2:38:57] person.

[2:38:57] But we could do it where we don't

[2:38:59] have to meet all together Let's remove the obstacle

[2:39:02] to the timing problem.

[2:39:03] If we want to get all together for the show of it,

[2:39:06] the performance of it we could still do that.

[2:39:09] And all of those 2 by 2s would have happened.

[2:39:12] The nitty gritty conversations, the advocacy could happen.

[2:39:14] We would trust that board members would advocate

[2:39:18] for the board regardless of who the two are,

[2:39:20] with whichever individual person, and then

[2:39:22] the pull together could be Well, here's

[2:39:26] the summary of the conversations and then we

[2:39:28] don't get into you missed the deadline or the early bird

[2:39:30] deadline.

[2:39:31] I didn't even know there was an early bird deadline.

[2:39:33] So that's a new one for me But I think

[2:39:36] that we have to get past because this is a common complaint going

[2:39:40] back a long time.

[2:39:42] And it's time if we keep trying to do the same damn thing,

[2:39:45] we were.

[2:39:45] That supervisor is not here anymore

[2:39:47] that you know, you get the same result.

[2:39:49] Why are we still doing it?

[2:39:50] And then we just talk about it in the fall.

[2:39:52] So could we make the effort right now to go.

[2:39:55] Let's let's set up a strategy, work on your group meeting.

[2:39:59] That's fine.

[2:40:00] They want to come and be with us all together

[2:40:01] and have chats and conversations, especially

[2:40:03] leading into election year, which is a priority.

[2:40:06] We heard that earlier from Mr. Blunt

[2:40:07] that they want to get out of Dodge because they

[2:40:10] want to go campaign Then.

[2:40:12] OK, then let's we will do that.

[2:40:15] And I think it's important for us to get together with them.

[2:40:17] And we can speak kind of philosophically

[2:40:19] in those moments.

[2:40:20] But let's get the grunt work happening on the street

[2:40:23] before the end of September, if that's doable.

[2:40:25] And I think that certainly which saying we can look at,

[2:40:27] I'd have two comments in response that First of all that

[2:40:30] in my past experience, it's not so much the six board members,

[2:40:34] it's the scheduling constraint it's the three legislators.

[2:40:37] I get it that they're the ones that say, oh, we

[2:40:39] can't do it, and so on and so forth So,

[2:40:42] so getting the six of you together is not nearly as

[2:40:44] big of a timing constraint as getting the three of them

[2:40:46] together, two of us getting after.

[2:40:48] And I'm not saying to people, go meet with all three.

[2:40:51] I'm saying to can go meet with these two.

[2:40:53] Others could meet with blood and how

[2:40:55] are they going to get around that Right now, we

[2:40:57] don't have to accommodate three state representatives schedules.

[2:41:01] We have to accommodate one individually

[2:41:04] and we can do it collectively and then

[2:41:06] we can figure out the other conundrum later

[2:41:07] that that certainly an option.

[2:41:09] The second.

[2:41:09] Come, I have for you is that this isn't an election year.

[2:41:12] So it's not an issue.

[2:41:13] But in election years, we often don't

[2:41:15] know who are legislators will be until after election day.

[2:41:18] And so there's that problem that in election years,

[2:41:22] we don't know who are delegates are going to

[2:41:23] and senators are going to be until after election day.

[2:41:26] So that's that one of the reasons why it's typically

[2:41:29] held later so that we actually know who are represented

[2:41:31] are going to be.

[2:41:32] Yeah, I get it.

[2:41:33] Understood.

[2:41:33] And we can accommodate for that.

[2:41:35] But at least.

[2:41:35] Let's get the conversations going We're already.

[2:41:37] I mean, they all invited us for one on ones earlier

[2:41:40] and the spring following the session.

[2:41:42] And people when I know some of you all went and met.

[2:41:45] So, I mean, let's just build on that strategy

[2:41:47] and see what we can do.

[2:41:48] We all got our packets, so you all have your individual things

[2:41:52] that you could say, but in a two by two, you can help each other,

[2:41:57] could help accommodate making sure we stay true to the board.

[2:42:00] The collective board approach to the legislative position,

[2:42:04] and then we can do the all together,

[2:42:06] get together later as we normally do.

[2:42:08] Should the supervisor Galloway one one open item

[2:42:12] that I would add to Mr. Harris list

[2:42:14] is just the board would formally adopt the program

[2:42:18] for this coming year at your October 21 board meeting.

[2:42:23] And unless you all wanted to give direction on the items

[2:42:25] before us ahead of that and then we

[2:42:27] could start working on scheduling

[2:42:29] those meetings with the legislators in September.

[2:42:30] OK.

[2:42:31] So that sounds like a hiccup for this year

[2:42:35] But next year, we can approve our platform knowing

[2:42:37] that the schedule changes.

[2:42:38] So everything else can change.

[2:42:40] This is all fixable.

[2:42:42] And workable and in my mind, is there any objection from anybody

[2:42:46] to that?

[2:42:46] No.

[2:42:47] Makes sense that that would be an improvement to the 2027

[2:42:50] program.

[2:42:50] But yes, so notice but I mean I'm

[2:42:53] saying can we start trying to get together

[2:42:55] with individual people now?

[2:42:56] So we can have some conversations

[2:42:58] about what we're talking about?

[2:42:59] This year?

[2:43:00] You're welcome to.

[2:43:01] But as ms..

[2:43:02] Kilbride pointed out, the board isn't going to formally adopt

[2:43:05] this until October 21st unless we were able to get on a sooner

[2:43:09] agenda.

[2:43:09] Or unless the board wanted to provide direction

[2:43:11] to date to I think there were some proposals

[2:43:14] during this discussion regarding the M.A.

[2:43:18] as well as adding elevating transportation funding So

[2:43:21] if we have that list of three items

[2:43:23] formally fully planned to bring us together

[2:43:25] on what the direction will be at the end of the conference

[2:43:27] session, I don't think we need to wait

[2:43:29] for a formal adoption of agree to get there

[2:43:33] because we're all nobody's objected to anything that I

[2:43:36] could hear.

[2:43:37] I hear nuancing.

[2:43:38] If anything So I don't hear anybody going.

[2:43:40] I don't agree with that.

[2:43:41] I don't agree with that.

[2:43:42] But yeah we got to get better at this.

[2:43:44] Sure.

[2:43:45] And let's not just because saddle up for another year doing

[2:43:49] it the same old way when we can attempt something,

[2:43:51] and that could inform us better for next year And that's not

[2:43:54] criticism to any of y'all because the board just needs

[2:43:56] to say, All right, let's do it.

[2:43:58] Let's do it differently right now.

[2:44:00] Yeah I did want to say that the three legislators,

[2:44:04] I think it's going to be a yearly thing.

[2:44:06] I know they came this year.

[2:44:07] It was on a Sunday was a town hall meeting here

[2:44:11] And that would be a perfect opportune minute.

[2:44:12] If we could get on their schedule for next year

[2:44:15] to then have a meeting with the board That was on a Sunday.

[2:44:19] But you know, that's where I guess

[2:44:21] we'll be open to all ideas for next year.

[2:44:23] I think like right now it's like, let's get this.

[2:44:26] Yeah, let's get some traction and get on the,

[2:44:28] get, get out on the street right now with them

[2:44:30] and try to talk about it.

[2:44:32] The only other thing I wanted to talk about today

[2:44:34] is transportation.

[2:44:35] And it's not funding.

[2:44:36] And it actually doesn't change anything in this packet other

[2:44:38] than some wording.

[2:44:40] So I did suggest some altered change to the transportation

[2:44:43] position statement, and it was primarily just the First

[2:44:46] of those statements.

[2:44:47] The rest, if I did what I thought I did,

[2:44:49] I think I I might have adjusted it.

[2:44:52] But it basically kept items two through five the same,

[2:44:56] but item one is what I've changed.

[2:44:58] I'm not asking for a bill from any of these three.

[2:45:01] And frankly, it's not.

[2:45:03] Don't even need much time in our meeting with them

[2:45:06] because the clearly the letter that I'm advocating for

[2:45:09] is a whole different approach and strategy.

[2:45:11] And isn't even a funding ask.

[2:45:13] So quick note 2020.

[2:45:14] 2021 J Clerk did their study.

[2:45:17] The General Assembly advocated another $560,000,055 million

[2:45:22] to two to transport that year.

[2:45:24] And lo and behold didn't really go too far right.

[2:45:28] And one of their great ideas was the mileage use

[2:45:30] for the voluntary thing that literally

[2:45:32] says if you choose to be taxed, whoever

[2:45:35] is going to say yes when they read that phrase,

[2:45:38] regardless of all the other content, the repeal,

[2:45:41] the text that had been passed.

[2:45:42] And the funny thing is is it's lumped into all

[2:45:44] the other use fees.

[2:45:45] And I haven't been able to find what actually has been collected

[2:45:48] from the voluntary mileage use program

[2:45:50] or whatever it's called anyway, the strategy.

[2:45:53] I'm asking the board to adopt is to call on the governor

[2:45:57] to convene a conversation because a lot of work

[2:46:00] has been done.

[2:46:00] I appreciate that our new Commonwealth transportation

[2:46:03] Board representative and the Virginia Department,

[2:46:06] the transportation secretary, keeps saying,

[2:46:09] well, we got to get better at prioritization Actually,

[2:46:11] Virginia compared to all the other states,

[2:46:13] does a damn good job of prioritizing the projects

[2:46:16] But at the end of the day, fewer and fewer priorities

[2:46:18] get done because of the funding model and the 558 million

[2:46:22] that they added is the proof that this

[2:46:24] isn't a budget decision.

[2:46:26] It's not a two year or a one year budget.

[2:46:29] It never will be.

[2:46:30] They have to look at and go okay,

[2:46:32] for the next 50 years, what's the program going

[2:46:35] to be that's going to adequately do what our transport nation

[2:46:37] program is going to do?

[2:46:38] And that's the part that they're not doing.

[2:46:41] They've talked around it.

[2:46:42] There's ideas but now it's time to get the decision

[2:46:46] makers in the room and convene and this

[2:46:49] was not because sometimes it's like, well,

[2:46:52] am I just doing this?

[2:46:53] Is this just Albemarle?

[2:46:55] It's not going to ever be accomplished

[2:46:57] if one locality is just alone trying to do this

[2:47:00] and yelling and screaming, it's going

[2:47:02] to take the collective effort of all the localities

[2:47:05] and that effort was well received at the Virginia

[2:47:08] Associated Counties Summer session

[2:47:10] at the Transportation Committee So I fully

[2:47:12] expect a fuller count.

[2:47:13] David, you were there.

[2:47:14] Am I misrepresenting Well, maybe you weren't in the room.

[2:47:17] I don't I don't know who was behind me, but.

[2:47:20] But these are your folks that have

[2:47:22] who are also local uS transportation

[2:47:25] folks that i would say that are revered in the state

[2:47:27] by the General Assembly.

[2:47:28] Folks as local politicians on the issue.

[2:47:31] Right.

[2:47:31] That joining with the vaiko effort,

[2:47:35] joining with our own regional push,

[2:47:38] I think could get some momentum going.

[2:47:41] But it's not that any and nobody is saying we're just

[2:47:44] asking for more money.

[2:47:45] We're asking for something that's

[2:47:46] sustainable and predictable and not for two years,

[2:47:50] but for 30 years.

[2:47:51] For 50 years.

[2:47:54] So if there are no objections I did offer the letter

[2:47:58] that i drafted for the governor.

[2:48:00] What I would love to do is to take the letter we

[2:48:03] that the board signed off on and endorsed from the pdf

[2:48:06] from last year.

[2:48:08] Send that along with the Governor letter

[2:48:10] to the Governor at our legislative session

[2:48:14] with our locals.

[2:48:15] We'll bring that and go here.

[2:48:16] You were copied on the T j PDQ letter.

[2:48:19] Here's what we've said to the governor.

[2:48:21] Here's the rationale.

[2:48:22] Here's the point.

[2:48:23] Then I'll be able to take all that to the Vaiko committees

[2:48:26] and show them what Albemarle positions been.

[2:48:28] And then I can take we could take this file.

[2:48:31] And I can take it to the commission

[2:48:33] and see if we can get our local region on board

[2:48:36] with this kind of strategy as well.

[2:48:38] This doesn't change anything.

[2:48:40] I don't think with the meeting with the other three other

[2:48:43] than here's what we're doing, and we'd appreciate your support

[2:48:47] in this effort.

[2:48:48] And I mean, otherwise we're just going

[2:48:50] to get the same old talking points.

[2:48:52] And that's no criticism of our local delegates

[2:48:54] because it's coming from the whole group

[2:48:58] And I honestly just at this point

[2:49:00] don't think they know what else to say.

[2:49:02] So it's that means it's time to convene and do

[2:49:04] something different and not study it to death.

[2:49:06] We know what the rising costs are.

[2:49:08] We know why the revenues are declining

[2:49:11] So this is something I think merits that kind of push.

[2:49:14] And then we'll have a revised transportation

[2:49:16] study that supports it.

[2:49:17] So when the advocacy works actually happening,

[2:49:20] it'll be there and hopefully we can

[2:49:22] get a groundswell of localities that kind of keep going in this.

[2:49:25] The Floyd County guy was just as interested as the Roanoke County

[2:49:29] guy.

[2:49:30] So you know, this has broad appeal I think,

[2:49:33] and could do something to future vaiko presidents in those two

[2:49:37] people.

[2:49:38] So yeah.

[2:49:39] Brings the whole ones next right?

[2:49:41] Yeah, for sure.

[2:49:42] And then he then in the other in the Floyd County

[2:49:44] goes right by two years after.

[2:49:46] Yeah.

[2:49:47] All right.

[2:49:48] So that's my bet for today.

[2:49:50] And I'm not hearing any objection to that.

[2:49:52] So I'm going to proceed.

[2:49:53] The board actually had voted several months ago

[2:49:56] to authorize the chair to sign a letter to the governor

[2:49:59] about transportation funding.

[2:50:00] So I don't know that I need a new action because i still

[2:50:03] have that.

[2:50:03] I don't know.

[2:50:04] Are discussing that, that I could still whip off this letter

[2:50:07] based on smoke But I just decided to bring it

[2:50:10] back up for reconsideration.

[2:50:13] So if there's no objection to that the to tidy this up.

[2:50:18] The machinery and tools piece and supervise

[2:50:20] are Pruitt said, we'd like to add

[2:50:22] is there any objection to adding that i

[2:50:24] don't know about its likelihood but we can add it.

[2:50:28] OK.

[2:50:29] I just didn't completely understand

[2:50:30] what it was you wanted to do.

[2:50:32] So.

[2:50:33] Well, we can get into that.

[2:50:34] It's a decoupling basically, that gives us a little bit

[2:50:37] more nuance with it.

[2:50:38] As a taxpayer So I'm hearing the consensus of the board

[2:50:42] is to elevate that to a priority status in the program.

[2:50:45] That's what I think the request was.

[2:50:46] And I didn't hear any objection.

[2:50:48] OK.

[2:50:48] The other piece is the endorsement of the 5,000 family

[2:50:51] program.

[2:50:52] And I understand the rationale and the strategy behind it.

[2:50:55] And plus, it should help people regardless of where they live

[2:50:58] So I have no I have no objection to that.

[2:51:00] I don't know if anybody else does.

[2:51:02] And I don't know the clarifying question on that.

[2:51:04] One is that expansion of the number of vouchers or extension

[2:51:08] of the time of the program I would suggest both.

[2:51:11] I think it's currently two years and actually decreases

[2:51:14] in funding over time, which would necessarily kick people

[2:51:17] off of the voucher Yeah So that also

[2:51:23] would be elevates the priority part of the program

[2:51:26] That sounds more like a endorsement of something that's

[2:51:29] in play, if I understood correct and get it that it's like,

[2:51:33] let's give that to him.

[2:51:34] So it's not necessarily taking up a bill slot,

[2:51:37] but as a priority point of topic of conversation

[2:51:39] for the full gathering when we all get together OK.

[2:51:42] That I misrepresent that i heard some common area

[2:51:48] about the wording.

[2:51:49] I don't think there's a downside to keeping supervisor Mallex

[2:51:52] piece about the broadband in.

[2:51:54] I do think that it's important to show that we understand what

[2:51:57] Supervisor Pruitt explained and all of that

[2:52:00] should help to say that we still have residents who don't have

[2:52:02] broadband and we need to make sure we're all aware of that

[2:52:05] and keep on it A short phrase in there that

[2:52:08] says they have no access to emerge just these services when

[2:52:11] it rains, that should get them or should get some attention

[2:52:15] And now I'm looking did I miss a topic that we that we have

[2:52:18] to clear up before we recess?

[2:52:20] I don't think so.

[2:52:21] I would like a little more clarity on the 5,000 families,

[2:52:23] whether that, again, is a is a priority or whether

[2:52:27] that's something that's put in the principals,

[2:52:29] because I still not I hear interest in it but I'm not

[2:52:32] hearing where that land and all I'll offer for discussion adding

[2:52:37] it as up to the position of policy statements under

[2:52:40] the housing header and making sure that it's part

[2:52:43] of the legislative forum discussion As for reaction

[2:52:48] housing, that would be I, I don't want to overly steer this.

[2:52:52] When I had said it, I imagined it as a priority.

[2:52:56] But if that belief of both the board and staff

[2:52:59] is that it would make more sense as a position

[2:53:00] that we talk about the forum, then that's also fine by me I,

[2:53:05] I think she was saying under attachment

[2:53:08] 11, a legislative program, those are the priorities And on page

[2:53:13] two is or that principles I see okay

[2:53:15] is where the housing is so it's on the same document.

[2:53:17] It's just adding a sentence there

[2:53:20] would help because I didn't know anything about this.

[2:53:23] And others may be equally clueless,

[2:53:25] open to any direction from the board.

[2:53:27] I just building off of Mr. Galloway's I mean,

[2:53:30] I think funding sounds like the priority,

[2:53:33] making sure it's and you would question

[2:53:34] whether the funding was there if this board is amenable to it.

[2:53:38] But I would like to see it as a legislative priority.

[2:53:41] It gives us the ability it puts it

[2:53:43] on that first page of the Palm Card

[2:53:45] that they say, yeah, I have no objection to that.

[2:53:48] OK, I like that And to your point,

[2:53:50] it wouldn't take up bill slot for them.

[2:53:52] So it's not us being too pushy on that front.

[2:53:55] Yeah, great And then, yes, transportation

[2:53:58] would be one of the three.

[2:54:00] So we currently have four to speed as number one.

[2:54:02] We have transport nation, and we have five

[2:54:04] and I'm fine if you all want to not have transportation

[2:54:09] because the idea is, is that we're

[2:54:12] taking the focus to another group that's

[2:54:15] part of the strategy.

[2:54:16] It's like you three can come along but here's

[2:54:19] what we're off and running and doing.

[2:54:21] So I'm happy to make it a priority.

[2:54:22] I certainly wouldn't object to that,

[2:54:24] but I'm saying that it doesn't have to displace something

[2:54:26] because we're going to be already in motion item

[2:54:29] by the time we meet with the folks in the larger group,

[2:54:32] we're already going to be off and running with some of those.

[2:54:34] We're not waiting until this program

[2:54:36] or this meeting with these three locals to do this.

[2:54:39] This is something we're going to send out immediately.

[2:54:42] It was my intent if that makes sense.

[2:54:46] So, you know, they'll get copied I'll get to similar to the PVC

[2:54:50] piece that we did last fall, but the region did.

[2:54:54] And the ideas.

[2:54:55] Yeah it doesn't bump something that we

[2:54:57] want to be a bill slide or a major priority for.

[2:55:00] I mean, it is a major priority.

[2:55:01] We'll be able to say.

[2:55:02] So Yeah I think we would, we would put it

[2:55:05] not as a legislative priority because that is sort of seen

[2:55:11] as the bill slots, but much like the card a discussion just

[2:55:14] keep that as a high priority thing

[2:55:16] that we're talking about and continuing to talk about.

[2:55:20] So I mean, I think we can massage that.

[2:55:22] I don't think it's obviously a priority.

[2:55:24] It's a long game, though, and it's not we're not at this point

[2:55:28] asking for a budget request.

[2:55:31] I think the it'll be interesting to see what Vaiko chooses to do.

[2:55:35] We might be whipping off a second letter

[2:55:37] after the Vaiko what position may decide to take and request

[2:55:41] But I don't want to be stealing any of their thunder

[2:55:43] based on the conversation that happened in summer.

[2:55:45] As if it's about morals.

[2:55:46] I do.

[2:55:47] I hope that you're planning to talk about it at the Region five

[2:55:50] because that would be a great place to get it out.

[2:55:52] That's next Friday.

[2:55:53] Yeah.

[2:55:53] On the 11th.

[2:55:55] Yeah Or week to week from Friday, huh ?

[2:56:00] OK.

[2:56:00] Anything we need to clear up No, I think we've got.

[2:56:04] I think we've got it.

[2:56:05] And I think what we'll do is well,

[2:56:06] we'll work on revising those materials.

[2:56:09] We might put some sort of subject to final adoption but.

[2:56:14] But in that state, those revised materials

[2:56:17] with sort of subject to final adoption tagline,

[2:56:19] hopefully that can get members of the board that

[2:56:21] want to use that proposed final proposed

[2:56:25] final drafts out to their meetings with the legislators.

[2:56:28] Equip you all to have those meetings even prior

[2:56:30] to the formal adoption on October 21.

[2:56:32] Great folders we can deliver, same

[2:56:34] as we've done in the past with the draft in there,

[2:56:37] and we'll work on setting up meetings.

[2:56:40] Supervisors will just have to be available to coordinate quickly

[2:56:43] on this.

[2:56:43] If a time opens up, we may have to be ready to move.

[2:56:46] But the idea would be find the supervisor.

[2:56:49] That's the most educated to speak on that particular issue,

[2:56:53] or one of the three.

[2:56:54] And we'll steer them into the end

[2:56:57] of the meeting like the machinery and tools tax

[2:56:59] that you've got to be in that meeting.

[2:57:01] So there you go.

[2:57:03] There's three meetings for you.

[2:57:04] Yeah, Yeah, great.

[2:57:06] We're just 5 and we can do three meetings.

[2:57:08] That's that.

[2:57:08] We'll see how this works.

[2:57:09] And we can have a discussion about that.

[2:57:11] We can?

[2:57:11] Yeah, we can refine from there.

[2:57:12] Go.

[2:57:12] Great.

[2:57:13] Thank you all.

[2:57:13] Thank you.

[2:57:14] Thank you.

[2:57:14] You.

[2:57:15] Thrilled for the change of effort.

[2:57:17] That's really great.

[2:57:18] Thank you.

[2:57:19] Board We are about what, a half an hour behind.

[2:57:22] So let's do a quick break.

[2:57:23] If we could and come back at four and we'll pick up there.

[2:57:26] If there's no objection to that game plan

[2:57:28] sounds like plan A little Yeah when we were having labor.

[3:07:45] All right, everyone, we are coming back from recess

[3:07:48] and we will move to get my glasses

[3:07:52] and we'll move to item number 12.

[3:07:56] The rural, rustic and unpaved road improvement program

[3:07:59] And I see up Eric at the podium.

[3:08:01] Good afternoon and Yeah, make sure you

[3:08:06] write in on that microphone now Eric,

[3:08:07] sometimes you're a little hard to hear Thank you.

[3:08:13] Where's the pointer thing?

[3:08:14] Do we have that?

[3:08:15] Oh, I'm the wrong person to ask about the pointer

[3:08:20] after recitation Perfect answer Good afternoon, sir.

[3:08:31] Galloway Board.

[3:08:32] My name is Gilbert.

[3:08:34] Karina and I am a transportation planner and planning

[3:08:36] within community development.

[3:08:38] I return to you to clarify our stake

[3:08:40] in Europe processes and the secondary six year plan.

[3:08:43] You are being unpaved Road improvement program, as well as

[3:08:46] present recommendations for roads

[3:08:48] to be included on the maintain gravel roads

[3:08:50] list Be gender for this presentation

[3:08:54] will focus on the following items.

[3:08:57] Clarify find the role rustic and the process

[3:08:59] is recommending roads not to be paved

[3:09:02] to preserve the recreational value

[3:09:04] and prioritizing the types of projects for the secondary Six

[3:09:07] are plan, but a background for secondary A six year plan

[3:09:11] is a veto document that applies to roads

[3:09:14] in the secondary system.

[3:09:15] Identifies that funding allocated

[3:09:17] for the next fiscal year and estimates the available funding

[3:09:20] for the next five fiscal years tell

[3:09:23] if funding stems from utility companies paying a fee

[3:09:26] to VRA to put lines in there right away.

[3:09:28] These funds are being used to help fund the Birkenau drive

[3:09:31] extension by Airport Road district grant.

[3:09:34] Unpaid funds are used both on rural, rustic and other paving

[3:09:38] projects.

[3:09:39] This plan is updated and adopted by the board

[3:09:41] annually each spring Some definitions for rustic roads.

[3:09:48] These are requested to be paved.

[3:09:50] These roads have had two thirds support.

[3:09:52] They are eligible for paving and they have board supports

[3:09:56] and for Europe, I'm going to be using this term

[3:09:58] other presentation you review ripping is kind of a term

[3:10:02] that we've come up with, so please bear with me.

[3:10:05] But these have either had more than one third

[3:10:08] of residents reject paving.

[3:10:10] Vdot has found them ineligible for repaving

[3:10:13] or they're bored projected these roads would still be improved,

[3:10:16] but not paved As a reminder, staff must receive a request

[3:10:22] either through resident or a board member

[3:10:24] representing a constituent step checks

[3:10:27] to see if the road is eligible for paving

[3:10:29] against the Europe in the maintain gravel roads lists.

[3:10:32] And if so staff will send the resident the signature list

[3:10:36] the rural rustic tool kit and the Albemarle County unpaved

[3:10:39] roads process document If the road has already

[3:10:42] been predetermined to not be eligible for paving

[3:10:45] it will be added to the list at the public hearing and may

[3:10:49] the board inquired if there was language in the materials sent

[3:10:51] to the public that describe the pros and cons of paving roads

[3:10:55] On the slide is language that was included in the tool

[3:10:58] kit and maybe some time to read it

[3:11:12] So there are four outcomes that can come out

[3:11:15] of a request for paving outcome.

[3:11:17] One is that the road is paved slash repeat outcome two where

[3:11:20] I can be the requested road will be moved

[3:11:23] to the maintain gravel roads list

[3:11:25] and will be for eligibility outcome C The requested

[3:11:29] road is already on the maintain viable roads list

[3:11:32] and is waiting for eligibility or outcome

[3:11:35] D The request will be addressed through other means.

[3:11:38] It'll be clear in the upcoming slides how request gets

[3:11:41] to one of these four outcomes.

[3:11:45] So the bottom of the chart shows the path of a road,

[3:11:49] assuming that it meets the road.

[3:11:50] Rest of requirements received two thirds signatures received.

[3:11:53] If you don't, approval has been prioritized

[3:11:56] and then a support approved by the board

[3:11:58] should be on the secondary six or plan.

[3:11:59] So the pointer to we get the request,

[3:12:06] we check the basic requirements.

[3:12:08] If yes, we check if it's on the road list.

[3:12:10] In this case, if it's not, we send the request to toolkit.

[3:12:13] If we get two thirds approval from the residents,

[3:12:16] we send it to veto.

[3:12:17] If it meets veto eligibility, then it's

[3:12:20] moved to be on the prioritized road list.

[3:12:22] As a rural rustic, we go to the April board work session.

[3:12:25] And the main board work session.

[3:12:27] And if yes is added to the secondary six year plan list

[3:12:31] and eventually it's paved.

[3:12:33] So that's how it's normally worked for the last few years.

[3:12:38] These are the ways for a road to become a Europe.

[3:12:41] The main decision points for a road becoming a Europe are it

[3:12:46] goes through You get some basic requirements, which

[3:12:49] check if it's on the list.

[3:12:50] If not, we send the rural rustic toolkit.

[3:12:53] If more than one third of oppose, we present the Europe

[3:12:56] option saying, you know, if you don't want the road paved,

[3:12:59] you still want improvements.

[3:13:01] If yes, the road is then moved to the prioritized road

[3:13:04] list as a Europe and then a similar process for the road

[3:13:07] rustic.

[3:13:08] We have the April board work session,

[3:13:10] the public hearing is added to the list

[3:13:12] and eventually becomes a year project.

[3:13:16] Secondly the second way to get on there is vote cannot pave

[3:13:19] the road.

[3:13:20] So same process, it gets to here, it gets through here.

[3:13:23] We get two thirds approve, but we cannot pave the road step

[3:13:27] or request that vote up.

[3:13:29] Essentially the project And there may be factors that still

[3:13:33] prevent veto from Europeana Road But the other decision point is

[3:13:37] if you veto cannot pave the road and the board will still have

[3:13:41] to approve a road as a Europe road Moving on and then maintain

[3:13:51] gravel roads path outcome B and C are similar and they both

[3:13:55] relate to the maintain gravel roads list The main ways

[3:13:58] for a road to end up on this list are the roads previously

[3:14:02] Europe.

[3:14:02] So we get to here if as previously you ripped

[3:14:06] it is therefore ineligible.

[3:14:07] We request for another six years.

[3:14:09] So if you worked in 2028 and someone came in 2030

[3:14:13] asking for paving improvements, it

[3:14:15] wouldn't be available to be requested until 2034.

[3:14:18] And it's on that list More than one third of residents

[3:14:22] reject paving and do not want the road to be changed

[3:14:25] or you repeat.

[3:14:26] So they will want any changes.

[3:14:27] They're happy with the road the way it is.

[3:14:29] It would be added to the maintain of a roads list

[3:14:31] and eligible for request for six years.

[3:14:34] And lastly the board rejects the road project as either a rural,

[3:14:37] rustic or you are a project so it can go through the road.

[3:14:41] Rustic decision point.

[3:14:43] And when it gets to here, if the board does not

[3:14:45] approve as a rural rustic it goes straight back

[3:14:47] into maintenance of our roads.

[3:14:48] Same for Europe.

[3:14:49] Appreciate it.

[3:14:50] Can make it through the whole Europe path through here

[3:14:54] and I guess the board if the board says no, it

[3:14:57] moves to meeting couple rooms.

[3:15:01] Here's a full flowchart.

[3:15:02] I'll come back to it after I finish your presentation

[3:15:04] for any questions The board expressed interest

[3:15:10] in May in preserving unpaved roads for recreational usage

[3:15:13] while vetoed does not have a separate recreational road

[3:15:16] program.

[3:15:17] The board has the power to block paving of any secondary road

[3:15:20] in the county Staff has conducted research

[3:15:23] on popular recreational unpaved roads in the area

[3:15:26] and is presenting that list to you now.

[3:15:29] The following roads have been listed by the Civil Bike Club

[3:15:32] and or ragged mountain running as good roads

[3:15:35] to use for recreation.

[3:15:36] Dick Woods Road, Elliotts Mill Road.

[3:15:38] Wesley Chapel Road Slam gate Road Jones Mill Road Midway

[3:15:42] Road.

[3:15:42] Townsend Creek Road and Ridge Road.

[3:15:45] If the board desires they can add all some or none

[3:15:49] of these roads.

[3:15:50] The main thing all roads list at the april 2027 work session.

[3:15:55] If they are added, they will be ineligible to be requested

[3:15:58] for paving until 2033 following the public hearing

[3:16:02] If a request comes after that, the board may choose

[3:16:05] to keep the road on the list and prevent

[3:16:07] paving or other improvements If the board like to add more

[3:16:11] roads, the appropriate time for that

[3:16:13] will be at the April work session Conclusions will rise to

[3:16:20] and will be merged and the secondary six year

[3:16:22] plan with some projects including paving

[3:16:25] and some projects focusing on improvement without paving

[3:16:28] over this project will be prioritized

[3:16:33] by average daily traffic volumes regardless if they

[3:16:36] are both a Europe or world.

[3:16:37] Much rural rustic project And finally, the board

[3:16:41] may choose to add any secondary road to the meeting gravel

[3:16:44] list for six years at a time.

[3:16:46] At the work session.

[3:16:47] After that, it will become open for paving

[3:16:49] requests Staff will continue to prepare for FY 2833.

[3:16:55] Secondary six year plan using the format presented

[3:16:58] and staff will continue to receive feedback on the process

[3:17:01] and work with the grant to implement.

[3:17:03] Thank you.

[3:17:04] And I'm open for questions All right.

[3:17:08] Supervisor Malik thank you very much for all your work

[3:17:11] at Ridge Road and other places.

[3:17:13] Standing in the ditch watching and worrying

[3:17:15] about these things and this is a huge step

[3:17:18] forward in my understanding And I

[3:17:21] think you all ability to not spend your wheels quite so much

[3:17:25] So that's great.

[3:17:26] Congrats elations on that So I may have misunderstood

[3:17:34] when you were just describing no one's

[3:17:41] ever denied improvements to a gravel road.

[3:17:43] So did I misunderstand you.

[3:17:44] When I heard you say that for six years

[3:17:47] you couldn't ask for repairs to the gravel

[3:17:49] and grading and drainage and stuff like that?

[3:17:52] If something's on the maintained list.

[3:17:54] So if it's on the maintain gravel list,

[3:17:56] it's not eligible to be requested for paving.

[3:17:59] So it wouldn't be eligible to receive a request.

[3:18:01] But if there's an obvious a problem or a maintenance issue

[3:18:04] would be that there was still take care of the paving only I

[3:18:06] just as long as that's clear that I'm clear on that

[3:18:09] that you're talking about paving for the six years,

[3:18:11] the six years has nothing to do with maintenance Yes.

[3:18:14] Okay, great.

[3:18:15] That's excellent.

[3:18:17] And thank you supervisor duncan for sharing.

[3:18:22] Alex, email earlier, because that several other people

[3:18:24] have reached out to me and said all these roads aren't

[3:18:28] on the list.

[3:18:29] Who did they talk to?

[3:18:30] I mean, about running out family is saying,

[3:18:32] I didn't know anything about this.

[3:18:33] So there's been a breakdown.

[3:18:35] But anyway I was sent a long list

[3:18:37] of roads, which I will give you in writing,

[3:18:39] but I'm going to read them now because I

[3:18:40] think they're all they're not just in the Whitehall district.

[3:18:43] They're all over the place of things

[3:18:45] that the trail runners use, the walkers use and the bicycle

[3:18:51] people.

[3:18:51] So I'm grateful for the ones you did list.

[3:18:53] The dick was.

[3:18:54] Velez-Mitchell wesley Chapel slam gate, Medway Pounding

[3:18:57] Creek, John's Mill and Ridge.

[3:18:59] However off of those are others And if you

[3:19:03] looked at the running website, websites and things there,

[3:19:07] all of these 18 mile loops and all these things that

[3:19:09] incorporate a whole lot of these other roads

[3:19:13] Castle Rock, Batesville Road, Clark road, Major One,

[3:19:16] Catterton, Deca Chapel, Spring Bike mountain.

[3:19:19] Ford Green Mountain Road.

[3:19:20] Forsyth rise Path.

[3:19:21] Hurd's Mountain, which is on the paving list.

[3:19:24] Pounding Creek shepherd's Mill really important Secretary

[3:19:28] stands stony Point, Sugar Ridge, Turkey

[3:19:31] sag violating which is connected to slam gate White Mountain

[3:19:37] and dickerson there on the unpaved part right now.

[3:19:40] So i don't know what has to be done

[3:19:44] to recognize all these others.

[3:19:48] They have them all mapped out.

[3:19:49] And I go send all the maps and everything to you.

[3:19:51] I just got this this morning So I

[3:19:55] think it's really important when we're looking at just like we're

[3:19:58] looking at transit networks and things

[3:19:59] when you're looking at recreation

[3:20:01] and then preserving the access to recreation

[3:20:06] for the roads such as the ones i've mentioned

[3:20:09] is a really valid approach.

[3:20:12] Earlier in the day, we learned about a $600,000 grant to build

[3:20:16] a couple of miles of the old Mills Trail This is dozens

[3:20:20] of miles.

[3:20:20] These just these roads I've listed here probably 50.

[3:20:24] And so the cost savings to the county budget

[3:20:28] to provide recreation in places where

[3:20:31] we know the individual and passive recreation is incredibly

[3:20:35] important to a huge number of people

[3:20:37] whom we did not recognize before Covid, that 1 million to 2

[3:20:41] million users a year That job has not gone away.

[3:20:46] So I think it's important that we

[3:20:48] do our very best to make this as thoroughly a list as possible

[3:20:52] and to consider these loops that are being used I forget

[3:20:59] Eggleston saying he was on his bike ride, the 50 mile trip

[3:21:01] from out early ville around Burnsville at around 810

[3:21:04] and all the way back to Crozet.

[3:21:06] I'm going now, brother Life taking your life in your hands.

[3:21:09] The entire way.

[3:21:10] But lots of people do it so that, I think,

[3:21:14] is a really, really helpful thing.

[3:21:17] And that's really all I have at the moment Thank you very much.

[3:21:20] The superb Duncan.

[3:21:23] Yes to everything, Supervisor Malik said some of those

[3:21:27] were the same points that I have.

[3:21:29] So to sort of add on to that, the runners and bikers

[3:21:34] in the community have come up with an excellent argument

[3:21:37] that I really hope they formally send to us

[3:21:40] but they have a list of the top unpaved roads for recreation

[3:21:43] and they have the ones that you have on here,

[3:21:45] but they also have deca, Chapel, Spring, Fox Mountain, Clark,

[3:21:49] Turkey, SAG Secretary Sands, Stony Point

[3:21:53] So again, sort of reiterating what I said in the spring

[3:21:56] that we really need to be doing our due diligence

[3:21:58] and reaching out to the recreational community of what

[3:22:01] roads.

[3:22:01] They want to prioritize And yeah, it's so much cheaper

[3:22:06] to keep our natural greenways than to have

[3:22:08] to like pay hundreds of thousands of dollars

[3:22:10] to create new paths for people to run on.

[3:22:13] But for me in addition to all of this,

[3:22:15] in addition to the great points that people have made in emails,

[3:22:19] is that this actually comes back to a bigger question of what

[3:22:22] we want the county to be.

[3:22:24] You know, are I can I economic development plan calls

[3:22:27] for increased agritourism.

[3:22:28] And one of the needs that identifies to do that

[3:22:30] is connecting with outdoor recreation in the current plan.

[3:22:34] We obviously have a whole section on recreation open space

[3:22:37] And so I was thinking about this because, you know, my kids are

[3:22:40] runners and so this is something that's super important to them

[3:22:44] and something we talked about And you know,

[3:22:47] is the fact that we have such a large running community here.

[3:22:52] Is this something that exists spontaneously

[3:22:56] because we had somebody come in and build a great once

[3:22:59] or 40 years ago.

[3:23:00] And sort of create this culture in that it just

[3:23:04] has to survive on its own merits through volunteers,

[3:23:06] through people who decide to run, or is it

[3:23:08] something that the county wants to encourage and cultivate

[3:23:11] and support, you know, continuously talk about how much

[3:23:15] rural land among ours and how much we want people to preserve

[3:23:18] it and keep it and be this beautiful, great outdoors,

[3:23:21] then we should also ensure that people

[3:23:23] can use it in having access to rural roads.

[3:23:26] For recreation is one of the benefits of having

[3:23:28] a rural county If it's our policies and sort

[3:23:33] of the boards for that prerogative to set roads aside,

[3:23:39] then, you know, I think we really

[3:23:41] need to be communicating with the recreational communities,

[3:23:43] listening to them when they are doing this advocacy.

[3:23:46] There's also, you know, health equity

[3:23:48] for being able to run outside, run,

[3:23:51] you know, for free everywhere in the county.

[3:23:53] People should have access to this.

[3:23:56] These are public goods These are not just about the neighbors

[3:24:00] that live on a road.

[3:24:01] These are, you know, community goods that benefit all of us

[3:24:06] And then just one last point that somebody

[3:24:08] made in one of the emails.

[3:24:10] We got that I thought was a really good request is

[3:24:15] that instead of a real road network analysis based

[3:24:19] on, you know, all the recreation or stuff

[3:24:21] that people are doing as part of the upcoming mobility

[3:24:24] and rural area plans, I think that would be kind of a good way

[3:24:27] to sort of comprehensively look at all of this

[3:24:29] and not just wait until work sessions in April Thank you.

[3:24:35] Thank you.

[3:24:36] Supervisor Pruitt Thank you.

[3:24:39] So I. Great presentation Very I found the flowchart.

[3:24:44] Very good.

[3:24:45] Very well made.

[3:24:46] I appreciate it.

[3:24:46] The key.

[3:24:47] Sometimes we'll make a flowchart and then they

[3:24:49] assume that you'll remember what a maintained gravel road means

[3:24:53] But that's not.

[3:24:54] It's not all there in the name.

[3:24:55] You have to have the key.

[3:24:57] So.

[3:24:57] Very, very good job.

[3:24:58] Thank you.

[3:24:59] I would echo my peers point on potentially wanting

[3:25:07] to do additional public engagement for how we're

[3:25:09] building the list that we're going to review in April

[3:25:13] I am immediately thinking the Charlottesville area trail

[3:25:16] runners cats.

[3:25:17] I'm not sure if they were county acted.

[3:25:19] And you know, it's weird to give a family.

[3:25:21] So much power but like directly communicating

[3:25:24] with the lawns owners who are kind

[3:25:26] of the weird natural hub of running culture

[3:25:29] in Charlottesville and Albemarle would probably

[3:25:31] be relevant because they could they

[3:25:33] could do a lot of the community engaged

[3:25:36] and on the county's behalf.

[3:25:39] And so i just might recommend those two things.

[3:25:42] The thing I do want to say, though, because I i'm a runner.

[3:25:47] I love these trails that we're all talking

[3:25:50] about I want us to be cautious.

[3:25:53] And this is more an outbreak not for you.

[3:25:55] This is more for the board right To remember

[3:25:59] that what we're talking about with potentially adding them

[3:26:01] on in April of next year is subordinating

[3:26:05] the political process that we've already created.

[3:26:08] It is extracting that from residential or control

[3:26:12] through the current to thirds majority request process

[3:26:16] that we've created.

[3:26:17] And sometimes that is prudent.

[3:26:20] Dick Woods Road east of Ortman, is a great example.

[3:26:24] Those residents a lot of them want

[3:26:26] it paved because they've built very beautiful homes that they

[3:26:28] want to not have to drive five miles to get to,

[3:26:31] but it is a tremendously essential community amenity.

[3:26:36] I am fine with taking that out of their hands,

[3:26:39] and I reckon with the fact that that

[3:26:41] means I'm subordinating their political power

[3:26:45] And on the other hand, I will remind this board the people who

[3:26:49] voted on it last year, right?

[3:26:51] Like I, I sat with a constituent for half an hour

[3:26:55] and listened to him talk about how

[3:26:57] he had been trying to get Glendalough Road paved for 50

[3:27:00] years and how multiple residents on Glendora Road

[3:27:03] felt like they were were second class

[3:27:06] citizens because they're a rural and their road wasn't paved.

[3:27:11] Glendora Road was also so an important trail running amenity

[3:27:16] Glendora Road and the King drop off at christ Church

[3:27:21] have long been one of the highest priorities.

[3:27:23] Trail runs in this county like that

[3:27:26] is a thing people still do it.

[3:27:28] But I don't know if people are running on Glendora Road as much

[3:27:32] So there is a balancing of of considerations that I would just

[3:27:37] really encourage this board to take serious and think about

[3:27:40] as we're moving toward April and as we're

[3:27:43] getting excited about what we're adding to this list.

[3:27:46] Remember that we're taking it out of resident hands sometimes

[3:27:49] that does have real considerations for their lives.

[3:27:53] Oh I also always try and talk about like the importance of I

[3:27:57] agree.

[3:27:57] We should if we're going to talk about the rural area

[3:28:00] as a public amenity, we should talk about it

[3:28:01] as a public amenity.

[3:28:03] I would encourage before April of next year, we try and walk

[3:28:09] or run every one of these roads because I would suggest

[3:28:13] that some of them you might not be

[3:28:14] able to do because you literally can't park somewhere fourth,

[3:28:18] depending on which one they are.

[3:28:20] And so like to take the charge seriously

[3:28:23] as we're thinking about this like consider

[3:28:25] what we are doing before we add something to a list,

[3:28:29] because it's exciting and because we all

[3:28:31] care about running.

[3:28:32] I love running and constantly in search

[3:28:35] of a better running for my circuits and it

[3:28:41] it is something that we just have

[3:28:42] to take our stewardship really seriously on this.

[3:28:45] That's all I have Supervisor Missal, Thank you.

[3:28:48] And I first considered being on this board.

[3:28:51] I was speaking to the previous, I

[3:28:52] think it was the previous supervisor in this position.

[3:28:54] And he said one of the main things you're

[3:28:56] going to be hearing about is to pay for

[3:28:58] or not to pay that will be one of the main issues

[3:29:01] that you address.

[3:29:03] So I kind of tried to come up to,

[3:29:05] you know, my learning curve to try to understand

[3:29:07] what that really meant.

[3:29:08] And I've spoken to supervisor Prude's comments,

[3:29:13] various sides of the issue.

[3:29:15] Right?

[3:29:15] There are people who live on a road that's

[3:29:17] a recreational road that are passionate about keeping

[3:29:20] it gravel and not paving it.

[3:29:22] There are others who are passionate about paving

[3:29:24] and want to keep that, you know, have that.

[3:29:26] So I'm a little uncomfortable with taking that away from I

[3:29:30] think you said the citizens decision making process.

[3:29:34] I think it's worth thinking about it.

[3:29:35] I'm not against it.

[3:29:36] I mean, all the good reasons that all the other peers have

[3:29:40] mentioned, I think is right on.

[3:29:42] But you know, we're talking about people who potentially

[3:29:46] have runners like supervisor prude or others

[3:29:49] who come from another location to run on a road

[3:29:52] that they live on.

[3:29:54] And you're essentially saying that that road that you live on

[3:29:57] will remain gravel for six years.

[3:29:59] Right before it becomes eligible to be paved.

[3:30:02] There could be a lot of things that occur within that six year

[3:30:05] period that might change.

[3:30:06] It need to be paved or not paved I don't know.

[3:30:09] But we're essentially saying we're

[3:30:11] taking that out of the mix.

[3:30:12] Right?

[3:30:12] That's we're being sort of we're saying this is it now there may

[3:30:16] be some that it's an easy one.

[3:30:18] But I just have heart.

[3:30:19] I'm having a hard time getting my head around how

[3:30:21] we do this in a way that's objective

[3:30:23] And also consider it in consideration of those

[3:30:27] that live on the roads.

[3:30:30] I'm not going to get into the list of roads.

[3:30:32] There were a couple that were mentioned,

[3:30:33] a couple that weren't mentioned that i think probably

[3:30:35] should be added that I've heard of people saying.

[3:30:37] I also agree.

[3:30:38] And just echo the comments You know, I made a note of I

[3:30:41] think you received this list from the Charles

[3:30:45] for biking Association.

[3:30:46] Was it or.

[3:30:46] Yes I actually went to the civil, both the website

[3:30:50] and the websites, and I went through their list

[3:30:53] for recommending gravel biking and running routes

[3:30:55] And this is how I came up with the list.

[3:30:56] So it's going to be a challenge, I think,

[3:30:58] to try to figure out how we are objectively

[3:31:03] comprehensive in asking and weighing

[3:31:06] both the folks who live there.

[3:31:09] And those that want these for recreational purposes asking

[3:31:14] enough of each side to understand really

[3:31:17] what that balances are.

[3:31:18] So I'll just say that I know this is a work in progress.

[3:31:22] I'm fully behind this idea.

[3:31:24] I think it's great that we're finally, talking about it.

[3:31:27] I just find it to be a bit of a challenge

[3:31:29] as we try to measure the input from our constituents,

[3:31:34] supervisors Office Development.

[3:31:35] Thank you for your presentation.

[3:31:38] I was improvising.

[3:31:39] Missal I'm concerned about this in that I want the residents

[3:31:45] to have their views heard.

[3:31:47] We seem to have they have worked out.

[3:31:50] And I think it was passed and what 4 or 5 years ago where

[3:31:54] you have to have two thirds of the people who live along

[3:31:56] there have to approve it.

[3:31:57] I've experienced that in my own district

[3:32:00] where some didn't get approved and others got approved.

[3:32:03] And that has seemed to work out well.

[3:32:06] It took the onus off of us and it made the neighbors talk

[3:32:10] to each other and they agreed.

[3:32:13] I understood about the running, about the biking

[3:32:16] You have people, though, are they

[3:32:19] going to concentrate and areas where or it's not paved?

[3:32:24] I don't know where they don't live.

[3:32:27] You know, they're using it as a track to get around.

[3:32:31] I don't know I think we need to consider the impacts I'm not

[3:32:36] saying I'm against everything, but I

[3:32:39] know Supervisor Mallett mentioned a couple of roads

[3:32:45] that really piqued my interest.

[3:32:46] I know she mentioned Deca and my understand

[3:32:49] is that we disapprove that because you didn't have

[3:32:52] two thirds of the people wanting that paved,

[3:32:55] so that was disapproved and that won't come up again

[3:32:58] for, I guess, six years.

[3:32:59] Is that correct It was ineligible.

[3:33:02] Decided by Veeder, which is why is vdot

[3:33:04] said they're not going to pay that.

[3:33:06] It doesn't qualify.

[3:33:07] OK.

[3:33:08] So not about the neighbors.

[3:33:09] It was just they we can't do it.

[3:33:11] So I know it needs to be on the maintained list

[3:33:13] and off the table.

[3:33:14] Right.

[3:33:14] And I do know that the neighbors were weighing in on that one.

[3:33:18] You also mentioned stony Point and turkeys sag.

[3:33:21] You're talking about the portion in between 20 and 231

[3:33:25] where it goes over that southwest mountains.

[3:33:29] This is a list four provided by the shelter area trail runners.

[3:33:32] OK.

[3:33:33] I would definitely i like to see that because I

[3:33:36] don't know of any other unpaved area for Stony point.

[3:33:40] If it's Stony point pass.

[3:33:41] And also Turkey sag.

[3:33:42] So what I was thinking of, you have all these roads and even

[3:33:46] the roads that were added.

[3:33:48] I'd like to see them on a map.

[3:33:50] I'd like to see where they are and what section,

[3:33:53] we're talking about, because the actual Stony Point road that's

[3:33:57] all paved We're not in Turkey.

[3:33:59] SAG is, is mostly paved also, except for going

[3:34:05] over the mountains.

[3:34:05] And same thing.

[3:34:06] It's not it's Stony Point pass.

[3:34:08] It goes over the amounts that will probably never

[3:34:11] be paved because it's too narrow, it's Winge.

[3:34:14] It doesn't meet the standards and anyway,

[3:34:18] so that that got me thinking that I think

[3:34:21] I'd like to see where these roads or section of roads

[3:34:24] are we talking about the whole road.

[3:34:26] A section of the road.

[3:34:27] But I'd like to see where they are in a math,

[3:34:29] I believe there was a map included in the materials

[3:34:32] packet for you as well.

[3:34:33] But I'm happy to make another map if you

[3:34:35] need more details as well.

[3:34:36] OK.

[3:34:37] I am sorry that I missed that because you had a map.

[3:34:41] But not the extra ones that I listed on.

[3:34:43] Yes.

[3:34:44] And that to you.

[3:34:45] It was just the map with the road Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[3:34:48] No, those are.

[3:34:49] No, I'm talking about with any other ones that are suggested

[3:34:54] Those they might be good.

[3:34:56] They may not be good.

[3:34:58] But it's something that is worth in my opinion,

[3:35:01] continuing to discuss and getting a little more detail

[3:35:06] of you know, I where the roads are located

[3:35:11] because I think those are the only two

[3:35:12] Stony point and Turkey side that are in my district.

[3:35:15] I think all the others are in I don't know which district

[3:35:21] some of my garden, some in my, some in yours.

[3:35:23] Excellent.

[3:35:24] Thank you.

[3:35:25] I done i would just echo the point that Supervisor Prewitt

[3:35:29] raised and supervisor missile when

[3:35:33] we're kind of discussing it.

[3:35:34] And the idea of keeping it in its current state, that

[3:35:37] appeals to could appeal to the residents

[3:35:39] and could appeal to this other group

[3:35:41] But as soon as you give yourself the authority

[3:35:43] to do that, you can do the reverse to which then takes,

[3:35:47] oh well, we're going to go ahead and decide for paving regardless

[3:35:51] of what the residents think.

[3:35:53] If we deem that decision So if we take the decision out

[3:35:55] of the residential piece, out of it, for one,

[3:35:59] you got to do it for all or else you're

[3:36:02] kind of Yeah yeah, kind of rigging it,

[3:36:04] if you know what I mean.

[3:36:06] I couldn't imagine you know, like when

[3:36:09] the residents and the other groups

[3:36:10] agree That seems to be a nice situation.

[3:36:14] If we all want that road ourselves to remain gravel.

[3:36:18] But if we get into a situation where the residents want it.

[3:36:21] And this other group who doesn't live there

[3:36:23] does what you know, vice versa, that's a problem

[3:36:27] And then we have to get into a conversation about,

[3:36:29] well, which is more important.

[3:36:31] Your daily travel to and from your home

[3:36:33] on a public road or the recreation for this other group.

[3:36:37] And I'm not if the Rio district residents ask me that question,

[3:36:41] I know how I'd answer that.

[3:36:43] Bleak House road residents if they came out here and said

[3:36:46] You're going to take our ability of living along this road

[3:36:49] and allow this other input to weigh into it

[3:36:52] I know what commentary I'd be getting

[3:36:53] at that podium from Bleak House Road

[3:36:55] except said they'd be on the same side.

[3:36:57] So that would be fair.

[3:36:58] But okay Yeah, you say so.

[3:37:01] Like that's the only time that scenario is going to come up.

[3:37:04] But you know, the first one out of the gate

[3:37:06] won't be that scenario right?

[3:37:08] We've seen it happen in other places.

[3:37:10] So at some point the board, if we go.

[3:37:14] This road and I'm not, you know look, I'm not going to I'm

[3:37:18] not trying to say that at your points, are there?

[3:37:21] I disagree with the points.

[3:37:22] I'm not even offer counterpoint.

[3:37:23] It's the awareness.

[3:37:25] Look, I don't run unless something's chasing me.

[3:37:27] I go out of my way to make sure I'm not

[3:37:29] running most of the time.

[3:37:31] So I used to run.

[3:37:32] I just can't do it anymore.

[3:37:34] Right?

[3:37:35] And I didn't like it then.

[3:37:36] But the idea is that, okay, I get it.

[3:37:39] I understand.

[3:37:40] And I think it's great at these roads when the residents agree.

[3:37:43] And that group agrees.

[3:37:44] Phenomenal But it's life is just not that clean.

[3:37:48] And if at some point it's in front of this board

[3:37:51] and we have to start nuancing a policy where

[3:37:54] we say more than a third of the residents

[3:37:57] x plus whatever percentage of this group equals

[3:38:02] do or don't that's too squishy for me.

[3:38:05] And I'm going to have to choose residence

[3:38:08] on the road advocacy group for whatever the advocacy is.

[3:38:12] I know where I'm going to end up on that conversation

[3:38:15] So I'm saying that today because I want,

[3:38:17] you know, we have a chance to have people give us

[3:38:19] feedback on this discussion And I

[3:38:22] think that's a good one to hear some feedback on I know where

[3:38:25] the advocacy group is but, you know,

[3:38:27] the bleak House road members aren't listening

[3:38:30] on this conversation today The residents who

[3:38:33] are out there who may be one, a road

[3:38:35] paved aren't here listening necessarily to this today.

[3:38:39] Maybe they are.

[3:38:41] And it's going to introduce their opinions about how

[3:38:43] they feel their public road is being

[3:38:45] used for recreational purposes.

[3:38:46] Right.

[3:38:47] And those opinions haven't been discussed yet.

[3:38:49] So, again, all of it to just endorse

[3:38:52] the idea that we need to be cautious and careful in this.

[3:38:56] And sometimes be careful what you wish for.

[3:38:59] Yeah Are there any other comments or questions?

[3:39:03] This is presentation.

[3:39:04] No action today.

[3:39:05] Can I take one more comment?

[3:39:06] Yeah, I've just when people come to a gravel road,

[3:39:11] they're buying a house and a gravel road.

[3:39:13] Yeah.

[3:39:14] So I guess that's just sort of my last thought.

[3:39:17] But points.

[3:39:18] Well taken.

[3:39:18] Yeah.

[3:39:19] And some of them would say I've lived

[3:39:20] on this gravel road for 30 years wanting it to be paved

[3:39:23] and it's never been.

[3:39:24] I'm sick of the dust Yeah, I had one person literally

[3:39:27] were talking about paving or not being the road.

[3:39:30] And I had somebody in the same household

[3:39:32] show up in support of paving and somebody

[3:39:35] in that same household emailed me saying, I'm told,

[3:39:38] don't do that.

[3:39:39] Yeah.

[3:39:39] If i will chair just add one more thought, which is I

[3:39:43] think we're all I think there's a lot of interest

[3:39:46] from the public in engaging on this.

[3:39:48] And like even me, as I'm expressing like hesitancy

[3:39:51] about this issue, I'm like excited about it

[3:39:54] because because this is a really huge part of comprehensive plan.

[3:40:01] How do we define cultural amenities, right?

[3:40:02] This is a huge part of our cultural amenities as a county.

[3:40:05] It's a really big like identity component of this county.

[3:40:09] And it doesn't feel like there is much government energy

[3:40:14] or effort around it.

[3:40:17] And I think that is maybe the the void

[3:40:21] that that these that these people are shouting into

[3:40:24] because, you know, we haven't said, we're

[3:40:27] going to pay adequate roads.

[3:40:28] So we don't have the entire UVA club

[3:40:31] in here lining the the bleachers, which

[3:40:33] is what would happen.

[3:40:34] You would have 100 people in here

[3:40:36] if we tried to pave Dick Woods Road

[3:40:40] And so I might just say it would be nice

[3:40:44] if we could engage with this issue of recreational road use

[3:40:48] and how we engage and incentivize

[3:40:50] and build this as a county Outside of this conversation.

[3:40:54] And it would be it would be really

[3:40:55] and there was the recommendation that you read off

[3:40:58] to that effect.

[3:40:59] I think that would serve and scratch a lot of the edge

[3:41:03] that I think we're hearing from the public on this.

[3:41:07] Like alberich doesn't have to be the channeling function for all

[3:41:10] of recreational or rural activity.

[3:41:12] And in Albemarle County, we protect our IRA.

[3:41:16] Yeah, yeah, I will protect him from your ire

[3:41:19] because we've stood together being run over

[3:41:22] by the speeders a number of times.

[3:41:25] I do have one thing that I know well you get to me,

[3:41:27] I think somebody else has some go.

[3:41:29] Yeah, and we got to get going because we've

[3:41:31] got to get in a close meeting.

[3:41:32] So quick comments.

[3:41:32] Supervisor Malik Good comments.

[3:41:35] This is a quality of life issue.

[3:41:37] And we have missed the boat.

[3:41:40] So far.

[3:41:41] On what Roanoke has made an enormous success

[3:41:43] of being the first ranked in the Commonwealth

[3:41:46] for outdoor recreation and our CVB

[3:41:49] is pretending that they are doing all this advertising.

[3:41:51] But if we are destroying the facilities

[3:41:54] that we're trying to draw people to, we are killing ourselves.

[3:41:57] Back in 2007, going door to door and Edwards Road people

[3:42:01] complained to me about their neighbors who

[3:42:04] said they moved in here and told me that their realtor promised

[3:42:07] them that the road to be paved and 26

[3:42:09] and I don't want it paved.

[3:42:11] And that's how far back my personal experience goes

[3:42:14] with that particular stretch.

[3:42:16] That was chosen right away in 2008 because of the use

[3:42:21] by the high school kids for practice.

[3:42:24] So lots of other people benefited

[3:42:26] from that I think it's perfectly fine to consider used decisions

[3:42:32] made by the board.

[3:42:33] There are lots of use decisions made in every other aspect

[3:42:36] of local government.

[3:42:37] So people have said, why is it recreation

[3:42:41] funded based some more on the number of users instead

[3:42:44] of organized sports and the ones who get all the headlines when

[3:42:47] they're probably I don't even know how many

[3:42:50] hundreds of one Walkers, writers and runners who

[3:42:55] like to use these kinds of facilities as opposed

[3:42:57] to kids who, you know, somebody who does something else.

[3:43:00] I don't know the answer to that, but it's a question

[3:43:02] that was raised to me.

[3:43:05] There.

[3:43:06] One thing I forgot to say earlier there

[3:43:09] are many roads on that paving list that

[3:43:11] have fewer than 80 cars a day.

[3:43:13] And that, to me, is 1,000,005 from paving roads between 60

[3:43:19] and 70 cars per day.

[3:43:20] That money could be spent in other ways.

[3:43:23] And we have finally, the authority to do that.

[3:43:26] So I would just throw that out there, and ask you all

[3:43:28] to consider that long before April,

[3:43:30] because this is been going around, around,

[3:43:33] around for a long, long time.

[3:43:36] Thank you.

[3:43:36] You.

[3:43:37] Last comment.

[3:43:38] Yeah, I just wanted to say that I i'm

[3:43:41] not against looking at all these roads and any other roads that

[3:43:44] are added, but I think we need to take in

[3:43:48] with the community things.

[3:43:49] But also what the residents think

[3:43:51] and maybe just do A11 by one because I'm not sure

[3:43:55] that all of these the other ones that Supervisor Malik suggests

[3:44:01] that the residents may be just fine not having it not having it

[3:44:07] paved so thank you.

[3:44:10] Thank you.

[3:44:10] And I also agree with the flow charts That was wonderful.

[3:44:13] Yeah.

[3:44:14] To stuff.

[3:44:15] Good stuff.

[3:44:15] Thank you All right.

[3:44:18] Board We're going to move to the item 13, the 2026 Thomas

[3:44:23] Jefferson Planning District Commission Regional Solid Waste

[3:44:26] Management Plan, and Jamie is going to introduce us.

[3:44:30] And we also have Isabella O'Brien from the t J PTC

[3:44:32] with us Good day board.

[3:44:38] My name is Jamie Powers from Climate Action program

[3:44:40] Manager with Elmira County.

[3:44:42] I'll offer just a few brief comments to introduce

[3:44:45] your presentation today.

[3:44:47] On our way to getting to zero net greenhouse gas

[3:44:51] emissions in 2050, solid waste composition in landfill

[3:44:55] comprises about 2% of that total.

[3:44:58] So a very small amount in the grand scheme of things However,

[3:45:01] solid waste is a gateway issue for community members

[3:45:05] to become more involved in climate

[3:45:07] action and other environmental initiative.

[3:45:10] It's also something that we know through our community engagement

[3:45:13] feedback surveys show that it's something

[3:45:16] that the community cares deeply about, as is evidenced

[3:45:19] through the legislative principles

[3:45:22] that you saw earlier today So anything we can do to enhance,

[3:45:26] improve our solid waste management system

[3:45:29] is up for offers opportunities for deeper, engaged mint

[3:45:33] in partnership with community members

[3:45:36] in achieving all of our climate and environmental goals.

[3:45:38] So with that I welcome Isabella O'Brien,

[3:45:41] environmental planner with the PTC Thank you.

[3:45:47] Good afternoon, Chair.

[3:45:48] Galloway All these down.

[3:45:49] OK.

[3:45:49] And Isabella, there's a little button

[3:45:51] if you want to lower that so we can see the podium.

[3:45:54] But you're fine too, if you're getting okay.

[3:45:57] I think it's okay for me if it's okay for you.

[3:45:59] Thank you. you for having me this evening, as mentioned,

[3:46:02] I'm Isabella O'Brien and a regional planner,

[3:46:04] too, at the Thomas Jefferson Planning District Commission.

[3:46:07] And tonight.

[3:46:08] I'll provide a brief overview of the 2026 Solid Waste Management

[3:46:11] Plan.

[3:46:12] Update highlight the findings relevant to Albemarle and review

[3:46:15] the next steps before Plan Adoption.

[3:46:19] The solid Waste planning Unit includes Albemarle County,

[3:46:21] the city of Charlottesville, Savannah and Green County.

[3:46:25] The t.J. Peabody staff coordinates the activities,

[3:46:27] the state requires of our solid waste planning

[3:46:30] unit on behalf of these localities as a planning unit,

[3:46:34] we have two primary responsibilities

[3:46:36] the annual recycling rate reporting due to Q

[3:46:40] and maintaining our regional solid waste management

[3:46:43] plan State regulations require that this plan be updated

[3:46:46] and maintained every five years with the next update due to D

[3:46:50] EMQQ in October of this year The plan is guided by Virginia's

[3:46:55] waste management hierarchy as stated in the Associated

[3:46:58] Planning regulations.

[3:46:59] The preferred approach is to reduce waste

[3:47:01] before it's generated, followed by reuse recycling

[3:47:04] and composting and then disposal options,

[3:47:07] such as landfilling and energy recovery

[3:47:10] are considered after those opportunities have

[3:47:12] been evaluated.

[3:47:14] So state regulations also establish the required contents

[3:47:18] of the plan.

[3:47:19] This update evaluates existing facilities and services, waste

[3:47:23] and recycling trends.

[3:47:24] Future needs.

[3:47:25] Public outreach efforts and implementation strategy

[3:47:28] for the next 20 years.

[3:47:31] It also includes future population and waste projections

[3:47:34] funding considerations and strategies for maintaining

[3:47:36] compliance with Virginia's recycling requirements

[3:47:41] So as mentioned, one of the plan's major components

[3:47:44] is the annual recycling rates And Virginia requires

[3:47:47] our planning unit to maintain a minimum recycling rate of 25%

[3:47:52] based on our cumulative population.

[3:47:54] And TCP staff coordinates the collection

[3:47:58] and reporting of this recycling data from local governments

[3:48:01] public facilities and participating reporting partners

[3:48:04] around the region It is important to note

[3:48:07] that the recycling rate is based on reporting requirements that

[3:48:10] are established by dequeue.

[3:48:12] The process does not capture all waste

[3:48:14] management activities such as construction demolition

[3:48:17] and debris and private haulers and recycling facilities

[3:48:21] are encouraged but not required by state code

[3:48:24] to report their data to us However,

[3:48:27] local governments can obtain that information

[3:48:29] through local ordinances or permitting requirements,

[3:48:31] and as a result the recycling rate

[3:48:35] should be viewed more as a useful compliance

[3:48:37] metric and trend metric rather than a complete picture of all

[3:48:41] of the recycling and diversion occurring

[3:48:43] within a locality The recycling rate is calculated by comparing

[3:48:49] documented recycling tonnage to documented municipal solid waste

[3:48:53] disposal and there are credits up to 5%

[3:48:57] that D EMQQ provides for recycling

[3:48:58] of non municipal solid waste, such as construction,

[3:49:01] demolition and debris, or for source

[3:49:04] reduction and reuse programs.

[3:49:08] So based on the data that we collect for the recycling

[3:49:11] report, the region consistent only

[3:49:14] does exceed the required rate between 2021 and 24

[3:49:19] at the regional rate ranged from 34 to 41%.

[3:49:23] And you'll notice that Charlottesville and Albemarle

[3:49:25] are reported together because much of their data

[3:49:28] comes from the relevant authorities serving

[3:49:30] both jurisdictions and based on their data, information

[3:49:33] from the city's waste contract waste and recycling hauler.

[3:49:37] Some private businesses and UVA.

[3:49:39] The reported recycling rate ranged from approximately 41

[3:49:43] to 49% during that same period.

[3:49:46] And because private facilities and haulers,

[3:49:50] the reporting is voluntary, some of the recycling activity

[3:49:54] may not be captured if haulers manage

[3:49:56] their waste, that private facilities

[3:49:57] or haul it outside of our region.

[3:50:01] And as a result, understanding local performance

[3:50:03] requires looking beyond the recycling rate

[3:50:05] alone, especially in the more rural portions of our planning

[3:50:08] unit.

[3:50:10] So in this chart, you can see some of those reporting

[3:50:13] challenges, differences between jurisdictions

[3:50:15] can reflect differences in data availability and reporting

[3:50:18] practices as much as differences in recycling,

[3:50:21] participation for localities with more activity

[3:50:24] is handled through private sector haulers

[3:50:26] or facilities may appear to recycle less or manage

[3:50:28] less waste overall because fewer materials are captured.

[3:50:31] In the scope of this report the Charlottesville, Albemarle area

[3:50:37] reports a per capita disposal rate

[3:50:39] that's generally lower than the national average based

[3:50:42] on the latest data from EPA, which

[3:50:44] is 2018, which may point to some of these data gaps.

[3:50:50] So so the planning process began in late 2020

[3:50:54] for and over the course of that process,

[3:50:56] we've held five technical advisory committee meetings

[3:50:59] with your local staff and stakeholders.

[3:51:02] The Technical Advisory Committee was instrument to the plans.

[3:51:05] Update staff provided local detail

[3:51:08] about the locally specific implement actions

[3:51:10] and reviewed the draft planning in advance of the public comment

[3:51:13] period.

[3:51:15] Public engagement occurred throughout the process.

[3:51:17] We should information through PVC channels, locality,

[3:51:20] newsletters and collected information

[3:51:23] through a public survey and workshop.

[3:51:25] We also collected feedback from the community

[3:51:27] during a 30 day public comment period.

[3:51:29] This August.

[3:51:31] And there's also the opportunity to share comments

[3:51:33] and in advance of or during a public hearing

[3:51:36] held tomorrow at the PVC Commission meeting at 7 p.m.

[3:51:41] before local adoptions Later the September as part

[3:51:47] of our public survey we received 257 responses

[3:51:51] across the planning unit, including approximately 97

[3:51:54] from Albemarle County residents and across the region.

[3:51:58] We saw several themes.

[3:52:00] There's a desire for greater transparency regarding

[3:52:03] what happens to collected materials,

[3:52:06] improve convenience for recycling and composting

[3:52:09] and expanded diversion opportunities.

[3:52:11] And these themes help to shape both the regional goals

[3:52:14] and locally specific actions included in the plan

[3:52:17] And if you're curious, you can see the detailed survey response

[3:52:21] via the link here and also in the plan appendices

[3:52:27] Overall, Albemarle County residents

[3:52:29] expressed strong support for expanding recycling, composting

[3:52:32] and waste diversion opportunities

[3:52:34] while identifying access, convenience and transparency

[3:52:37] as key priorities for survey respondents consistently

[3:52:41] requested additional recycling and compost drop off locations

[3:52:44] particularly in Crosby, Northern Albemarle and areas

[3:52:49] farther from existing facilities residents

[3:52:52] also demonstrated strong interest

[3:52:54] in more accessible and affordable composting options.

[3:52:58] So while some private curbside compost collection services

[3:53:01] are available many residents indicated

[3:53:04] that the cost remains a barrier to participation

[3:53:06] And as a result, residents expressed interest

[3:53:09] in expanding composting opportunities,

[3:53:12] including lower cost curbside community composting,

[3:53:15] drop off options and other county

[3:53:17] supported programs Additional feedback highlighted interest

[3:53:21] in expanding collection programs for specialty materials,

[3:53:25] improving recycling and composting access.

[3:53:27] Specifically at multifamily and rental and business properties

[3:53:32] and supporting waste reduction and reuse initiatives in line

[3:53:37] with the themes from the regional feedback respondents

[3:53:41] frequently called for clearer and more detailed guidance

[3:53:45] on what can and cannot be recycled,

[3:53:48] especially for plastics.

[3:53:49] Compostable products, batteries, electronics

[3:53:52] and other hard to recycle materials

[3:53:55] There was concern about contamination and wish cycling

[3:53:58] happening and they just wanted better educational resources

[3:54:02] to improve diversion and trust and transparency

[3:54:06] was another major theme, asking for more information about where

[3:54:10] recyclables go after collection and whether materials

[3:54:13] are actually being recycled All right

[3:54:20] so the draft plan organize.

[3:54:22] It's the implementation efforts into three focus areas

[3:54:27] data and information sharing and planning and waste diversion.

[3:54:32] The regional goals address many of the issues identified

[3:54:35] through public engagement and each locality

[3:54:38] submitted local locally specific objectives

[3:54:41] to support each of these goals.

[3:54:44] This was this was part of the focus of the technical Advisory

[3:54:47] Committee team members ensuring alignment with each localities

[3:54:50] programs and resources and Albemarle

[3:54:54] provided 14 of the 60 total locally specific actions

[3:54:58] in the plan for Albemarle implementation actions focused

[3:55:03] on expanding public education and outreach programs, improving

[3:55:07] waste and recycling data collection, reporting benefit

[3:55:10] action and public transparency conducting

[3:55:14] countywide assessments of solid waste system capacity

[3:55:17] and future service needs.

[3:55:19] Increasing diversion of priority materials,

[3:55:22] such as food waste, cardboard, textiles and construction debris

[3:55:26] through targeted programs supporting

[3:55:28] circular, circular economy initiatives

[3:55:32] and regional recycling market development,

[3:55:35] and then improving equitable access to waste

[3:55:37] and recycling services So the key changes from the last plan

[3:55:44] compared to the 2021 update, this plan

[3:55:46] includes a more detailed analysis

[3:55:49] of the recycling and disposal trends and expanded

[3:55:52] public engagement process and locally specific implementation

[3:55:56] actions The appendices include all of our public engagement

[3:56:00] materials adoption resolutions.

[3:56:02] Once approved a technical report that was developed by a master

[3:56:07] student at UVA School of Public Policy that focused

[3:56:10] on rural waste diversion opportunities,

[3:56:13] as well as the detailed implementation

[3:56:15] plan and the draft plan is currently

[3:56:20] available on our website and following today's presentation,

[3:56:24] the PDC will hold the required public hearing,

[3:56:27] incorporate any final feedback and return the plan

[3:56:31] to local boards, The City Council and the PVC commission

[3:56:34] for Adoption before being submitted to THQ in October

[3:56:40] So here is the link to our website with all of the updated

[3:56:42] planets cereals and thank you for your time and participation

[3:56:46] throughout this process.

[3:56:47] I'm happy to answer any questions Thank you.

[3:56:50] Supervisor Malik, thank you very much.

[3:56:53] I really appreciate the goals that you enumerated,

[3:56:56] particularly the education one and the guidance document

[3:57:00] and know our select committee is working hard to refine.

[3:57:03] And I know they've shared it with you for comments with

[3:57:05] your university intern to be able to share with

[3:57:09] the university students All 30,000 of them too,

[3:57:12] would be a really great help as far as the whole thing.

[3:57:16] I am continually frustrated by the lack of your hands being

[3:57:19] tied by the lack of reporting.

[3:57:21] So I guess my future quest, My question for future research.

[3:57:24] Mr. County Attorney, is, do we have the authority to require

[3:57:29] haulers to be registered, licensed,

[3:57:31] pay their business taxes at our county,

[3:57:33] and we required to report their tonnage ?

[3:57:35] Right.

[3:57:36] And as I said before, I'll need to take a look into that.

[3:57:38] Yes.

[3:57:38] Thank you.

[3:57:39] You.

[3:57:39] There are examples in Arlington and Loudoun counties

[3:57:43] of where they have hollow requirements in place to require

[3:57:46] reporting based on the size.

[3:57:48] And then there's an example in the city of Alexandria

[3:57:52] where they have permitting requirements

[3:57:55] So oftentimes, I know Albemarle County already

[3:57:58] has a permitting process for all of their haulers

[3:58:01] but requiring annual updates to that, that also

[3:58:04] requires data being shared.

[3:58:05] So there are examples that exist within the state of Virginia

[3:58:09] Well, the discrepancy of our SWC having 100 businesses crossing

[3:58:13] the scale when we have 15 or 20 who are licensed,

[3:58:16] that was a shocking statistic.

[3:58:18] So I hope we will make some progress on that.

[3:58:19] Thank you very much.

[3:58:21] Supervisor Duncan No comments, really.

[3:58:24] This is really great.

[3:58:25] And it's of interesting.

[3:58:27] Supervisor pruitt, this is my second bite

[3:58:30] at this presentation.

[3:58:31] And so I'm going to not make any further comments.

[3:58:35] Supervisor And you'll get your third department supervisor.

[3:58:38] Whistle Thank you.

[3:58:39] Thanks.

[3:58:40] For the presentation.

[3:58:41] Was really off.

[3:58:42] Was a lot of information there.

[3:58:43] So a couple of questions.

[3:58:45] One is I have to find my notes my question.

[3:58:50] So when I'm sorry.

[3:58:53] Forgive me.

[3:58:54] I'm on Medicare here Sorry.

[3:59:01] But I had this in front of me.

[3:59:04] OK.

[3:59:05] So public feedback public survey, public feedback.

[3:59:08] It seemed to me that there was a lot of request for education,

[3:59:12] all opportunities, additional not

[3:59:14] a lot of requests for a specific facilities to be added.

[3:59:20] Is that fair?

[3:59:22] Let me go back.

[3:59:23] But there was one that actually talked about expanding recycling

[3:59:26] opportunities.

[3:59:28] Yes.

[3:59:28] So particular in northern Albemarle along Route 29

[3:59:32] and in Crosby there were some requests for additional drop

[3:59:36] off locations just for convenience use.

[3:59:39] They noted that Ivy or McIntyre was a barrier.

[3:59:42] It's not really on there commuting path.

[3:59:44] Got it.

[3:59:45] And so did that.

[3:59:45] Did those show up in your original implementation plan?

[3:59:50] I just I may not have seen them.

[3:59:52] It's just a you don't have to answer now.

[3:59:54] I'm just making sure that that's all kind

[3:59:57] of captured in that piece.

[3:59:58] I think that was one thing that stood out to me.

[4:00:00] I know there was a locality specific item for Albemarle that

[4:00:03] was to increase accessibility of facilities,

[4:00:07] but I don't know if it had nailed down

[4:00:09] any specific locations.

[4:00:11] Okay.

[4:00:11] That's good to know.

[4:00:13] And then the other.

[4:00:15] I guess is these are great plans.

[4:00:18] This is a pretty massive lift, I think.

[4:00:22] What are we using to review the success metrics?

[4:00:26] Are there.

[4:00:27] What are to the outcomes?

[4:00:28] Like how often do you check it?

[4:00:30] How often do you say this implementation plan is working

[4:00:33] or it needs to be amended, etc.?

[4:00:35] That is something that's been updated

[4:00:37] as a part of this process.

[4:00:38] This is my first time working through the whole process,

[4:00:41] but we've added a plan maintenance section which

[4:00:45] will encourage the technical advisory committee

[4:00:47] members to come back together on an annual basis

[4:00:50] to review Yeah, exactly.

[4:00:54] Okay, great.

[4:00:54] Thank you.

[4:00:55] That's it.

[4:00:55] And I know your staff has also really highlighted

[4:01:01] the need for a better baseline of our data.

[4:01:04] So how can we know if we're making system improvements

[4:01:07] if the recycling rate data isn't really

[4:01:09] reflective of the whole picture?

[4:01:11] Yeah.

[4:01:11] So there's efforts there as well.

[4:01:14] OK.

[4:01:15] Thank you.

[4:01:16] Supervisor Lipstick early is the actual plan

[4:01:19] to increase recycling to have more convenient centers

[4:01:27] throughout the county or to have a system in the urban ring

[4:01:32] where you actually collect trash and recyclables.

[4:01:38] So it's interesting because the plan is really

[4:01:41] guided by D. Q regulations and their main goal

[4:01:45] as part of this planning process is to look at our population,

[4:01:50] our waste projections to see if overall, as a state,

[4:01:54] we have enough landfill capacity to manage all

[4:01:56] of the waste happening here.

[4:01:57] So as that stands we're meeting the requirements of the plan.

[4:02:02] Does that make sense We're meeting

[4:02:04] the requirement of the plan.

[4:02:07] The D EMQQ has laid out what the future specifications will

[4:02:11] be implement station plan is to move higher

[4:02:15] in the waste management hierarchy,

[4:02:18] further towards waste reduction.

[4:02:20] So I got to go all the way to the top,

[4:02:22] but source reduction, reuse, recycling and composting

[4:02:25] and moving further away from landfilling

[4:02:28] But it's really up to your staff, your boards,

[4:02:32] your resources as to tell you implement that plan.

[4:02:36] Basically we're meeting the requirements

[4:02:38] as it stands for plan maintenance.

[4:02:40] OK, So you're meeting the minimum.

[4:02:42] Is there are there other counties.

[4:02:44] I know the city of Charlottesville,

[4:02:46] they have I don't know how many waste haulers does

[4:02:50] anyone know how many waste haulers they have,

[4:02:52] But they pick up everything.

[4:02:53] So they're able and I think they have recycling is that correct?

[4:02:56] They do.

[4:02:56] So they have a system there.

[4:02:58] What prevents us from doing something similar

[4:03:02] in the urban ring or at least in certain neighborhoods

[4:03:06] I think that would be a question for your local staff

[4:03:09] to determine.

[4:03:10] But I don't think there's anything really prohibiting

[4:03:13] that money.

[4:03:14] Yeah, it's that all need to stand up.

[4:03:17] The public works department, the rest

[4:03:19] of the way to do that because we don't have it.

[4:03:21] Yeah.

[4:03:21] Well, I mean i just because I've been a member of this committee

[4:03:26] and everything.

[4:03:27] And that's just I know the haulers.

[4:03:29] We're asking them information, but I

[4:03:31] understand that they don't have to give it.

[4:03:34] OK So there's no teeth there that we have a 25%

[4:03:39] minimum recycle link, right?

[4:03:41] So that's not anything to brag about.

[4:03:45] So states requirement pardon.

[4:03:46] That's the state's requirement We didn't set that in place.

[4:03:49] OK.

[4:03:50] So the state has a low requirement.

[4:03:51] Yes OK.

[4:03:52] It's 15%.

[4:03:54] It's 15%.

[4:03:55] And even more rural areas.

[4:03:57] So we're actually doing better than the state's 15%

[4:04:01] requirement.

[4:04:01] Okay.

[4:04:02] And the public feedback in Albemarle was 97 responses.

[4:04:07] Yeah In our community survey it was an online survey

[4:04:11] open for two months.

[4:04:12] Right.

[4:04:12] I remember Yeah.

[4:04:15] Okay.

[4:04:16] I, I mean, you've done a great job of summarizing everything

[4:04:20] and i appreciate that.

[4:04:21] I guess I would like to see maybe a more robust

[4:04:27] how can we recycle more?

[4:04:29] Because that's better for the environment, the climate,

[4:04:33] everything What can we do to actually start doing that?

[4:04:36] And and I know you say money, but I mean, this.

[4:04:40] I said money.

[4:04:40] You said money.

[4:04:41] Yeah.

[4:04:42] So I has a plan.

[4:04:43] It's back as a plan.

[4:04:44] We can certainly do that.

[4:04:46] That's not hers over here.

[4:04:47] Right.

[4:04:47] She doesn't work for us.

[4:04:48] It's helpful to remember I realized that right here's

[4:04:51] the guy.

[4:04:52] But it's like it's great to be able to have something

[4:04:55] more concrete that we're doing more at least toward recycling.

[4:05:00] And I know compost thing, you know my issue on that.

[4:05:02] But I mean, you know do little steps first

[4:05:06] where we get people recycling and they're

[4:05:08] in a mindset of recycling except for all the good people that

[4:05:12] go to the convenience centers and they

[4:05:13] recycle everyone else just throws it all in one bunch.

[4:05:17] Sorry.

[4:05:18] Gotcha.

[4:05:20] Good afternoon Jeffrey Dumas, director of Facilities

[4:05:22] Environmental services.

[4:05:24] I'm very excited to talk about our initiative

[4:05:27] to hire Matrix, the consulting firm that complete

[4:05:32] our organization assessment.

[4:05:34] They will be assisting us with evaluating our permitting system

[4:05:38] and our the potential for enhancing services

[4:05:43] in the urban areas.

[4:05:46] We intend to come back to executive leadership

[4:05:50] and provide the options and menu of options for fee

[4:05:56] based service or enhanced services in the very near future

[4:06:01] is a part of our department.

[4:06:02] All our FY 27 plan and to fulfill the strategic plan

[4:06:07] goal of analyzing an enhanced public

[4:06:10] works function for the county.

[4:06:13] Good Glad to hear that.

[4:06:14] Thank you.

[4:06:14] Know, the questions.

[4:06:15] I'll get I should have asked this question when

[4:06:19] we had it the first pass.

[4:06:20] And I didn't because I thought I missed it.

[4:06:22] But what are the dollars I my general

[4:06:25] take on the chart the regional implementation plan with the

[4:06:28] got the dollar signs on the far right was the more dollar

[4:06:31] signs, the more expensive.

[4:06:32] But then when I actually read through it some of the $2 signs

[4:06:36] were as low as $3,000.

[4:06:38] So what's the key for a dollar sign equates to under $3,000.

[4:06:43] There is a key and the key I've been looking for the key.

[4:06:47] I apologize.

[4:06:48] I might need to duplicate it because we

[4:06:50] have a section in the actual draft plan that describes

[4:06:54] that the implementation plan is in the appendices

[4:06:57] and has the key.

[4:06:58] But I think the actual implementation plan might not

[4:07:01] have the key.

[4:07:02] So that's it We put it in the appendices

[4:07:04] because I was looking through there going, maybe it's in there

[4:07:07] and the only reason I ask is because it confused me

[4:07:10] with some about the Morales dollar signs

[4:07:12] when you just look at them.

[4:07:13] There were a couple that went from 1 to 3

[4:07:15] and I'm like, Why is that Tripled the cost.

[4:07:18] But I didn't know the reference of the cost So if you could

[4:07:21] just I can send that along.

[4:07:22] I can't remember it off the top of my head

[4:07:24] and I'll be the this one dollars sign.

[4:07:26] Yeah, I can clarify it then as well.

[4:07:28] Might just be staff time and resources.

[4:07:31] And then I'll clarify tomorrow.

[4:07:33] And like I said, if it's, if it's embedded in the plan,

[4:07:36] I just I haven't been able to find it

[4:07:39] And one note as well is i got some additional feedback

[4:07:43] from Monroe County staff and the link that was sent to you

[4:07:46] all or the draft plan that's included in your packet,

[4:07:49] I believe, is the previous version

[4:07:50] since I had to share materials.

[4:07:52] A few weeks in advance.

[4:07:53] So if you go to our website link right here,

[4:07:57] there's just a few changes that were made.

[4:07:59] A substantial But can you just sentence.

[4:08:02] All right, got us all updated.

[4:08:05] Right.

[4:08:05] Perfect Well, thank you very much.

[4:08:08] Thank you.

[4:08:08] All right.

[4:08:10] Bored we are need to go into closed meeting.

[4:08:13] Is there a motion to take us in I move that the board

[4:08:17] of supervisors can be in a closed meeting pursuant

[4:08:19] to section 2.2-37118 of the Code of Virginia under subsection 1

[4:08:24] To discuss and consider appointments to various boards

[4:08:27] and commissions, including without limitation.

[4:08:29] The First Neighborhood Community Advisory Committee

[4:08:32] the Blue Ridge community, for showing Dot regulations.

[4:08:34] The Crozet Community Advisory committee,

[4:08:36] the Fire Prevention Code Appeals Board, the joint words,

[4:08:39] the local board of building code appeals for Places 29

[4:08:42] North Community Advisory Committee and the 20

[4:08:44] and the Places 29 Row Community Advisory Committee.

[4:08:47] And under Subsection 3 2 discuss and consider

[4:08:50] the disposition of publicly held real property

[4:08:53] and the right in a magisterial district where discussion

[4:08:56] and open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position

[4:08:59] or negotiating strategy of the county in the board.

[4:09:02] So second.

[4:09:03] All right.

[4:09:04] OK.

[4:09:04] If there's no objection, if the clerk will please call

[4:09:07] the roll is up.

[4:09:08] So currently I miss Mallet Yes.

[4:09:10] Mr. Missal Yes, Mr. Pruitt.

[4:09:12] I miss Duncan Yes.

[4:09:14] Mr. Galloway.

[4:09:14] Yes.

[4:09:15] All right good.

[5:07:41] All right.

[5:07:41] Good evening, everyone.

[5:07:42] We are coming back from our closed meeting.

[5:07:45] Do we have a motion to certify the closed meeting I move

[5:07:49] that the board of Supervisors reconvene in an open meeting

[5:07:51] and certify by a recorded vote that the best

[5:07:54] of each supervisors knowledge only public business

[5:07:57] matters lawfully exempted from the open meeting

[5:07:59] requirements of Virginia freedom of Information Act

[5:08:02] and identified in the motion authorizing the closed meeting

[5:08:05] were heard, discussed or considered in the closed

[5:08:07] meeting.

[5:08:08] Second.

[5:08:09] All right, the motion has been made and seconded

[5:08:11] without objection, if the clerk will please call

[5:08:13] the roll is lucky.

[5:08:14] Secretly, I miss Malik.

[5:08:16] Yes, Mr. Missal.

[5:08:17] All right, Mr. Pruitt.

[5:08:18] All right.

[5:08:19] Mr. Anquan.

[5:08:19] Yes, Mr. Galloway.

[5:08:21] Yes.

[5:08:21] All right.

[5:08:22] Are there motions coming out of closed meeting?

[5:08:24] Yes.

[5:08:24] Thank you.

[5:08:24] Two motions coming out of closed meeting.

[5:08:26] First is I moved to appoint the following to boards

[5:08:31] and commissions for Fifth and Avon Community Advisory

[5:08:34] Committee.

[5:08:34] Amanda Brookman Rob Fiola.

[5:08:38] I don't i of how I did on that.

[5:08:43] Mr. Pruitt.

[5:08:44] Nathan Holland Blue Ridge Committee

[5:08:46] for Shenandoah park Relations.

[5:08:48] Lonnie Murray Crochet Community Advisory committee.

[5:08:51] Christopher are a solid John Knight and Jay

[5:08:54] Pence The Fire Prevention Code Appeals

[5:08:57] Board slash local board of building code Appeals John

[5:09:01] eggleston, Doug Low and Wayne via john Board, Christy

[5:09:06] Hagen and Jacob Sumner Local Board of Building Code Appeals

[5:09:11] last fire prevention code Appeals Board.

[5:09:14] John eggleston, Doug Lowe and Duane via places 29 North

[5:09:18] Community Advisory Committee.

[5:09:20] Adam Yost places 29 Ryan Community Advisory committee.

[5:09:25] Audrey Kuchar, Brian mcMillan.

[5:09:28] Judith Schlissel and Secretary of the Fire Prevention Code

[5:09:32] Appeals Board and Local Code Building Code Appeals.

[5:09:36] Danielle sumners, Second.

[5:09:39] All right, the motion has been made and seconded.

[5:09:41] Without objection if the clerk will please

[5:09:43] call the roll missile piece.

[5:09:45] OK.

[5:09:45] I miss Malik Yes, Mr. Missal, I. Mr. Pruitt.

[5:09:49] I miss Duncan.

[5:09:50] Yes.

[5:09:50] Mr. Galloway.

[5:09:51] Yes All right.

[5:09:53] Second motion is I move i resolution.

[5:09:56] I move to adopt the resolution authorizing execution of a gift

[5:09:59] proffer letter to the united States Army for drive

[5:10:02] into station second.

[5:10:04] All right With a motion has been made and seconded,

[5:10:06] without objection that the clerk will please

[5:10:08] call the roll missile stoker.

[5:10:10] Lie.

[5:10:10] Miss Mallett?

[5:10:11] Yes, Mr. Missal.

[5:10:12] All right, Mr. Pruitt.

[5:10:13] All right Ms..

[5:10:14] Duncan.

[5:10:15] Yes, Mr. Galloway.

[5:10:16] Yes.

[5:10:17] That motion carries.

[5:10:19] Thank you And the next item, then we

[5:10:22] will start number 17 from the county executive report

[5:10:26] on matters not listed on the agenda

[5:10:28] And I know we have an item here.

[5:10:30] And are you listening?

[5:10:31] I will speak very briefly just and advise the board

[5:10:36] that county attorney Andy Herrick will provide the board

[5:10:38] with some information regarding referendum communications

[5:10:41] And with that, I'll turn it over to the county attorney.

[5:10:44] Thank you.

[5:10:46] Thank you Evening, Mr. Chair.

[5:10:51] Members of the board.

[5:10:52] Andy Herrick.

[5:10:53] I'm the county attorney, and I've

[5:10:54] been asked to speak to you this evening about the referendum

[5:10:57] communications in advance of the sales tax referendum

[5:11:01] that will be on the ballot this fall.

[5:11:03] As you're aware, the board authorized

[5:11:06] and our office filed a petition with this local circuit court

[5:11:09] earlier this summer authorizing the issue of a $0.01 sales

[5:11:14] tax to be put on the ballot this fall.

[5:11:18] There's a Virginia code section, section 24.2,

[5:11:21] dash 687 that allows a number of communication to take place

[5:11:25] that are authorized by the board I've

[5:11:28] put some of the highlights of that up there.

[5:11:31] It allows an explanation of a referendum that

[5:11:33] would include the ballot question and a statement

[5:11:35] describing the referendum It has to be

[5:11:38] a neutral, factual explanation.

[5:11:40] And it must remain unbiased in plain English

[5:11:42] with a maximum of 500 words.

[5:11:44] It may not advocate for or against referendum passage.

[5:11:48] It may be distributed at polling places

[5:11:49] on the day of the election and it also

[5:11:52] may be published in newspaper proceeding.

[5:11:53] The referendum I have prepared that proposed explanation.

[5:11:58] I've distributed to your seats.

[5:12:00] There are also copies available for the public at the sign up

[5:12:04] table and the code also does provide

[5:12:06] that if the board authorize it, it's

[5:12:08] the local government attorney that prepares that explanation.

[5:12:11] And so I have done so and attempted

[5:12:13] to make it again to fit all of all of the restrictions

[5:12:17] that it's under.

[5:12:18] 500 words factual.

[5:12:20] It does have the question that will appear on the ballot

[5:12:22] as well So it attempts to provide a neutral summary

[5:12:25] of the referendum.

[5:12:26] It outlines the purpose of the tax, its limitation

[5:12:29] and duration, and it describes the allowable uses of revenue

[5:12:32] for school capital projects.

[5:12:36] That same code section also allows

[5:12:39] for other neutral explanations to be distributed

[5:12:43] by the local government.

[5:12:44] So the county is authorized to provide neutral,

[5:12:47] factual referendum information outside of the official

[5:12:50] explanation that appears on the ballot or excuse me,

[5:12:53] that appears at the polling places So the county can provide

[5:12:58] objective information, facts, amounts,

[5:13:00] uses of proceeds and so forth, but it cannot run a vote yes

[5:13:04] campaign using public dollars, individual members of the board

[5:13:08] and their own personal capacities may also advocate

[5:13:11] for or against a referendum But again,

[5:13:14] that has to be in your personal capacity.

[5:13:16] It is Virginia law does not prohibit elected officials

[5:13:18] from expressing their personal views on a ballot question.

[5:13:22] However several important legal limits apply.

[5:13:25] Board members may not use county funds staff time county email

[5:13:29] accounts, County Facil ities or any other public resources

[5:13:32] as to promote or oppose the referenda on any advocacy

[5:13:36] should make clear that the member is speaking

[5:13:37] in an individual capacity, not on behalf of the Board

[5:13:40] or on behalf of county government.

[5:13:43] Again, as I've indicated, staff may provide neutral,

[5:13:45] factual information about the referendum,

[5:13:48] but cannot assist in preparing advocacy materials or messaging.

[5:13:52] If a member engages in activities

[5:13:54] that meets the definition of express advocacy campaign

[5:13:58] finance rules may apply, including reporting requirements

[5:14:01] for referendum committees So in some personal advocacy

[5:14:05] is allowed.

[5:14:05] But official advocacy using county platforms or resources

[5:14:09] is not.

[5:14:11] So the neutral, factual communications

[5:14:13] through county channels is permitted

[5:14:14] and will be managed by staff consistent with state law.

[5:14:19] So we've done our Cape office led by Abby Stump,

[5:14:24] has prepared a county communications campaign again

[5:14:27] along the lines of neutral factual information will launch

[5:14:30] that or we plan to launch that public awareness campaign

[5:14:33] on September 4th with these principles that

[5:14:36] the communications will remain factual and neutral,

[5:14:38] that the information will explain what the referendum is,

[5:14:41] how it works and when and where residents can vote.

[5:14:44] Again, the county will not encourage a yes or no vote

[5:14:47] because we're prohibited by law from doing so.

[5:14:50] The local government and schools, it's worth noting,

[5:14:52] will conduct separate coordinated campaigns

[5:14:55] The code section that I just cited

[5:14:56] to 24 section 24.2, dash 687 restricts local governing

[5:15:01] bodies.

[5:15:01] But the school board is not under the same restrictions.

[5:15:04] So there's a slightly different set of rules.

[5:15:07] As a result, the counties communicate

[5:15:08] options may differ somewhat from the schools,

[5:15:11] including the possible naming of school projects

[5:15:13] by the schools themselves if they so choose.

[5:15:16] While the county focus on the types of projects,

[5:15:19] while the county will focus on the types of projects

[5:15:22] that the tax might fund the schools

[5:15:23] might name specific projects.

[5:15:25] Again, we don't control that and they are not

[5:15:27] limited by the code section that I cited.

[5:15:30] And again, this difference is rooted

[5:15:31] in the different legal regulations

[5:15:32] for the two entities.

[5:15:34] So with that those are my prepared remarks.

[5:15:36] I'm happy to answer any questions you might have missed.

[5:15:39] Not from our Cape office is here and might also be able to answer

[5:15:41] questions regarding the communications effort.

[5:15:44] Thank you, Andy And I would encourage the board

[5:15:46] to ask as many questions as you need to on this one.

[5:15:49] So that we understand the letter and not

[5:15:52] just the spirit of the law, but the actual letter of the law.

[5:15:55] So Supervisor malik, you're a first.

[5:15:59] I think I understand the spirit and the intent

[5:16:01] and we'll tread very carefully.

[5:16:03] Thank you.

[5:16:04] Supervisor Duncan yeah, I would be

[5:16:06] really interested in hearing more

[5:16:08] about what the plans are for the community

[5:16:11] engagement and education.

[5:16:12] And I guess I defer to Ms..

[5:16:13] Stump to address that.

[5:16:18] Oh, he's so much taller than me.

[5:16:20] Abby Stone, director of communications

[5:16:21] and public Engagement We're really

[5:16:24] focusing on a broad education based campaign,

[5:16:29] and it'll include a web platform form our web page.

[5:16:32] And that's really going to be the source

[5:16:34] of all of this information.

[5:16:35] So people can find it, particularly all those Google

[5:16:38] searches.

[5:16:39] We have the rate language that'll

[5:16:40] pop up to answer questions and people are looking for.

[5:16:44] It'll have a to launch it'll have an initial one pager fact

[5:16:49] sheet that people can download and then share as they need.

[5:16:52] It will also be working on a mailer out to all residences

[5:16:57] in the county that will drive traffic back to their website.

[5:17:00] And then there's a whole bunch of cash, a whole bunch probably

[5:17:03] about 10 to 12, I think that we know

[5:17:06] that people are going to be asking

[5:17:08] and we're just going to keep adding to that

[5:17:09] as we hear more and more Have you.

[5:17:13] So I know that the city has already started

[5:17:16] running ads on the radio.

[5:17:17] That's sort of a, you know, educational thing

[5:17:21] Have we thought about doing any sort of like video

[5:17:24] ads, social media ads, radio ads and anything like that?

[5:17:28] So we have social media and in our in our plan right

[5:17:31] now, we're going to start with organic social media

[5:17:34] a first, because I know that a lot of the sharing

[5:17:36] for the first couple of weeks is going to going to hit everything

[5:17:39] and people are going to be just using that as their platform

[5:17:42] for moving.

[5:17:43] But we're going to be looking weekly to figure out,

[5:17:46] are we getting the information out of the places

[5:17:48] that we need to?

[5:17:50] So you have radio ads and newspaper ads

[5:17:52] and some other places are going to be on our list

[5:17:54] that we can easily tap into if we need to That's all I have.

[5:17:57] Yeah.

[5:17:58] Supervisor Pruitt, I actually have nothing to add on this

[5:18:02] or ask Supervisor Bissell.

[5:18:04] Thank you.

[5:18:05] No questions, Supervisor or Mr. Kirby.

[5:18:07] No questions Thank you.

[5:18:09] All right, I got some questions I open up

[5:18:13] my inbox, a constitu or an emails me and says,

[5:18:16] Supervisor galloway, do you support the referendum?

[5:18:18] Am I allowed to answer that question

[5:18:20] If I want to answer yes or no, is that

[5:18:23] the correct or not correct?

[5:18:24] You have the ability to answer that question,

[5:18:27] but you cannot use county resources to advocate.

[5:18:29] So it might be if you wanted to perfectly comply

[5:18:32] with the letter of law, it may be best

[5:18:33] to respond to that with your personal email

[5:18:35] rather than a county based email.

[5:18:37] But if I respond to that email and say yes or no then I'm not.

[5:18:41] I could be in violation technically

[5:18:44] because you'd be using county resources.

[5:18:45] And again, it would be very important for you to clarify,

[5:18:48] I'm speaking on my on the more important thing

[5:18:50] is that you clarify that you're speaking on your own behalf,

[5:18:53] not on behalf of the board or the county All right.

[5:18:56] I'm asked to come speak to some constituent group in the county.

[5:19:00] We'd like to have you here to help answer questions that

[5:19:02] cetera, etc..

[5:19:03] And they're trying to figure out where they're at on this

[5:19:06] Is in that situation.

[5:19:08] And I know I'm free to speak as I want,

[5:19:10] but i have to just state that I'm here as the citizen,

[5:19:13] not the chair of the board.

[5:19:15] Yes, sir.

[5:19:15] And that you're speaking on your own person

[5:19:17] of your own personal opinion and again, not

[5:19:19] on behalf of the board or the county.

[5:19:22] I think that sums up exactly what we have to be mindful of

[5:19:26] and careful of Yes, just want to know.

[5:19:31] We usually have two phones, so if we get a call on our work

[5:19:35] phone then we can't answer it.

[5:19:37] Best to return it.

[5:19:38] On not using county resources, county email, county phones,

[5:19:41] best to return any sort of inquiries

[5:19:44] on your own personal devices.

[5:19:46] Thank you.

[5:19:46] Yeah.

[5:19:47] So just I guess we're just clarifying again

[5:19:52] to be very clear, so we can like go on social media and say,

[5:19:56] this is my opinion on this.

[5:19:57] Yes, ma'am I would advise you, though,

[5:20:00] to, again, just disclaimer this is my personal.

[5:20:02] Exactly.

[5:20:03] As a voter and parent Exactly.

[5:20:05] Yes, ma'am.

[5:20:07] In the great wisdom of the you know, the code of Virginia,

[5:20:09] we've done nothing but advocate for this up until this point

[5:20:14] And we voted to put it on the ballot.

[5:20:16] And as soon as we did that, now it changes the game

[5:20:18] while we lead up to the vote.

[5:20:19] Criminal indictments.

[5:20:21] While the board has put it before the voters

[5:20:23] to make that decision.

[5:20:24] So I'm just saying, though, for three years

[5:20:28] that all of a sudden, if I could clarify, the board

[5:20:30] has advocated to allow that to allow Virginia

[5:20:32] localities to have that option.

[5:20:34] And now we have that option, and it's before the board.

[5:20:36] There are voters at this point, and I

[5:20:39] don't suspect that there's anything

[5:20:41] wrong with if an e emails received on the county email

[5:20:44] that I can reply, email me here or just you said go ahead

[5:20:48] and just reply Yes, sir, Use the email address

[5:20:51] and apply from the personal.

[5:20:52] Yes, sir.

[5:20:52] Right Very good.

[5:20:54] Thank you.

[5:20:55] Thank you.

[5:20:55] Two other questions actually I do have one.

[5:20:57] Yeah.

[5:20:57] The one that just came up.

[5:20:58] So if someone emails a question to our county email

[5:21:02] should that be kept?

[5:21:03] Yes.

[5:21:03] OK.

[5:21:04] Even though we don't ever answer it or anything else OK.

[5:21:07] And again.

[5:21:08] And let me clarify.

[5:21:09] You can answer from your county email as well.

[5:21:12] As long as it's neutral factual.

[5:21:13] And so forth.

[5:21:14] The moment that you express an opinion,

[5:21:16] it would have to be from your personal account.

[5:21:18] OK.

[5:21:19] Thank you.

[5:21:20] Very good.

[5:21:20] Thank you Okay, we will move to item number

[5:21:28] 18 public comment on matters previously considered

[5:21:31] are currently pending before the board other than the other

[5:21:34] than scheduled public hearings And we

[5:21:37] do have some folks signed up.

[5:21:38] So Vice Chair mr. Will read the rules

[5:21:41] and introduce our speakers.

[5:21:42] Happy to.

[5:21:42] We have no one on line.

[5:21:43] So I read the in person only during this portion

[5:21:45] of the meeting.

[5:21:46] Individuals may address the board regarding matters

[5:21:48] previously considered by the Board

[5:21:50] are currently pending before the Board,

[5:21:52] other than the item scheduled for public hearing,

[5:21:54] speakers are limited to one opportunity

[5:21:55] of up to three minutes to ensure equal treatment and courtesy

[5:21:59] for all speakers.

[5:21:59] The board requests that the following guidelines

[5:22:01] be observed.

[5:22:02] Please state your name.

[5:22:03] And if you live in Albemarle County or magisterial district

[5:22:06] comments should be directed to the board as a whole.

[5:22:08] Written statements or supporting materials

[5:22:10] may be provided to the clerk if representing a group

[5:22:13] or organization, you may ask others present to raise

[5:22:15] their hands in recognition.

[5:22:16] Speakers may not share unused time with another speaker.

[5:22:19] A back and forth debate is not permitted

[5:22:21] and speakers should not speak from their seat

[5:22:23] or out of turn the podium timer will guide your time.

[5:22:26] Green indicate your time has begun.

[5:22:27] Yellow means one minute remains that read indicates

[5:22:30] your time has expired All comments are

[5:22:32] recorded live streamed and published on the county website.

[5:22:35] The sign up period is closed once public comment begins

[5:22:38] the podium is adjustable.

[5:22:39] Speakers may raise or lower it.

[5:22:41] So they're able to speak directly into the microphone,

[5:22:44] and we'll begin with Mr. Tom Olivier our good evening.

[5:22:54] I'm Tom Olivier from the Samuel Miller district.

[5:22:57] I'm here to speak about regarding rural areas values

[5:23:01] and planning.

[5:23:03] In the early 1990, as a former county supervisor

[5:23:06] told me that during the development of the county's

[5:23:09] first zoning ordinance, a large scale map of the county

[5:23:13] was hung in public area in a public area,

[5:23:16] and a planning department.

[5:23:17] While on the map areas we today would call rural areas were

[5:23:22] labeled as raw land law is a semantically pregnant adjective,

[5:23:28] one that suggests that open space is of there to be

[5:23:32] transformed by humans into something else Fortunately,

[5:23:36] by 1989, our comprehensive plan recognized the need

[5:23:40] to preserve open spaces with forestry and agriculture

[5:23:43] as priority uses In 1999, the natural resources

[5:23:48] and cultural assets chapter added

[5:23:51] natural and historical resources to the list of protected

[5:23:55] or values a few years later, the first Rural Areas chapter

[5:24:00] presented a vision for enduring rural areas.

[5:24:03] A vision of integrated agroforestry and industries,

[5:24:06] natural systems and historic resources

[5:24:10] I recently sent you all a copy for that vision

[5:24:13] statement in contrast to early in the last comprehensive plan

[5:24:17] planning staff proposed a new structure for the plan

[5:24:21] without a rural areas chapter are open spaces, it seemed,

[5:24:26] were deemed undeserved.

[5:24:27] And with much attention What impoverished conception

[5:24:31] of our rural areas lay by and are behind that decision

[5:24:34] and were rural areas again, being seen as raw land pressure

[5:24:40] from members of the public who understood open face, open space

[5:24:43] values led to including the rural areas

[5:24:46] chapter and a commitment to develop a standalone rural areas

[5:24:50] plan such a plan would help identify policies

[5:24:54] that foster coexistence of often compete in open space.

[5:24:58] Land uses.

[5:25:00] It could help identify adaptive paths for Forest Hill industries

[5:25:04] in changing ecological and economic circumstances Allow

[5:25:10] the county currently lacks rural areas planners to help develop

[5:25:14] a standalone plan.

[5:25:16] If the Community Development Department

[5:25:18] doesn't request a new rural areas planning

[5:25:21] position in the next county budget, I urge that use of force

[5:25:25] require that it be added and funded.

[5:25:27] Thanks.

[5:25:28] For your consideration.

[5:25:30] Thank you.

[5:25:32] And tim Kendrick Good evening.

[5:25:39] My name is Ted Kendrick and I live in the white hold district.

[5:25:42] I'm speaking today on behalf of Albemarle County Farm Bureau.

[5:25:45] In front of you, there's a small booklet.

[5:25:47] Welcome to the Country.

[5:25:49] This is a booklet about Central Virginia and living

[5:25:52] in the country and rural areas within our county.

[5:25:56] It's a light reading, but in the fact that in the near future,

[5:25:59] we'll be making decisions here with this board about the future

[5:26:02] of agricultural in our county.

[5:26:04] I would ask that you take the time

[5:26:06] and read the short book You'll recognize names in there

[5:26:09] from farmers past and present, like Corky Shackleford Rob

[5:26:13] Harrison and Carl Tender It's a short read, 70 pages,

[5:26:19] but I think you'll find it informative

[5:26:22] and a delight to read Thank you.

[5:26:24] Thank you.

[5:26:25] Thank you, Tim.

[5:26:26] That concludes our list.

[5:26:27] All right.

[5:26:27] Thank you for our speakers this evening All right.

[5:26:31] We will move to item number 19.

[5:26:34] ZM 2025 seven Windy Knoll.

[5:26:38] We have Rebecca and Michael at the dais with us.

[5:26:41] Good evening.

[5:26:43] Good evening.

[5:26:44] Thank you.

[5:26:45] Rebecca Ragsdale, planning manager with the Community

[5:26:49] Development Division, And I will be taking us

[5:26:51] through this presentation and going over

[5:26:55] the specifics of the proposal This is a public hearing

[5:26:59] and we did get a few questions and want

[5:27:01] to make sure we clarified that it has been properly advertised

[5:27:05] and that includes all the required

[5:27:07] parts of the code of Virginia and sufficient notice,

[5:27:11] including posted notice under the county

[5:27:13] specific requirements in our ordinance This rezoning involves

[5:27:19] about three acres of land comprised of three parcels

[5:27:24] currently zoned r-1 residential and the proposal

[5:27:28] is to rezone to r six for up to a total of 18

[5:27:32] units at a gross density of six dwelling units per acre

[5:27:38] Public hearings have been held at the planning

[5:27:41] Commission in February and then most recently in May when they

[5:27:45] made their recommendation And the application has advanced

[5:27:48] to you this evening.

[5:27:50] So I will go through a couple of slides

[5:27:53] to go over the existing conditions

[5:27:55] and orient everyone to the parcel

[5:28:03] Just getting situated over here with my screen

[5:28:07] It is located along Rockfish Gap Turnpike at 250

[5:28:12] and it is in between the quarry farm and Liberty hall

[5:28:17] neighborhoods.

[5:28:18] And it has a couple different access

[5:28:21] points that we will go over.

[5:28:24] But it is a c-shaped assemblage of those three parcels Looking

[5:28:31] at a little more closely with the aerial view,

[5:28:33] the parcel will be outlined on each of these slides or most

[5:28:36] of them in the in the blue.

[5:28:38] It is this c-shaped parcel, as I mentioned

[5:28:40] to the east of quarry Farm and it is to the west

[5:28:46] is Liberty Hall.

[5:28:47] It's near the clover line and Center area

[5:28:53] of Blue Ridge Shopping Center.

[5:28:55] The yellow arrows are indicating a couple access points

[5:29:00] that already exists to these parcels off of quarry Farm,

[5:29:03] which will, of course be future Eastern Avenue.

[5:29:07] Those access points are important as we

[5:29:11] go through this presentation because it is, again,

[5:29:15] an assemblage of parcels that will

[5:29:16] be accessed from a couple of different spots

[5:29:20] which is Windy Lane that extends off Little Fox

[5:29:23] Lane in the existing quarry farm neighborhood

[5:29:26] to the northern most portion of the existing quarry farm road

[5:29:30] and access point.

[5:29:32] From there.

[5:29:32] And then from Colony Drive within liberty Hall,

[5:29:37] we mentioned that it is located adjacent

[5:29:39] to future Eastern Avenue.

[5:29:43] That is underway In terms of moving forward with the design

[5:29:48] build process and funding this fall hopefully starting

[5:29:52] that in 2027 through 2029.

[5:29:57] Again with the existing conditions,

[5:29:59] information, switching gears to this map,

[5:30:01] you'll see the C-shaped parcel in the light.

[5:30:04] Green color in the middle is zoned R-1 residential.

[5:30:07] Currently.

[5:30:07] As we mentioned, the White is just

[5:30:10] acknowledging the existing and 20 foot

[5:30:12] right of way for future Eastern Avenue quarry Farm

[5:30:16] is zoned r six excuse me, R4.

[5:30:20] And then Liberty Hall is neighborhood model

[5:30:25] with about a gross density of six dwelling units per acre

[5:30:30] This is a snippet or inset map from the crazy master plan.

[5:30:35] The parcel is designate added neighborhood density

[5:30:37] residential That density range is up to six

[5:30:41] dwelling units per acre and is the same designation as Liberty

[5:30:46] Hall and quarry farm as we mentioned.

[5:30:49] Again, the center is located within close proximity

[5:30:53] and walking distance from the site Going

[5:30:57] over the specifics of the proposal,

[5:31:00] this is what we refer to as a concept

[5:31:03] plan that is offered by the developer

[5:31:07] to make commitments to certain features.

[5:31:10] We often use the term major elements Anything you don't see

[5:31:14] called out on the plan specifically as a unique element

[5:31:18] of this proposal will be covered by the ordinance,

[5:31:21] which is the R six regulations that are six allows unit types,

[5:31:28] such as single family detached and multifamily and the maximum

[5:31:34] building height is 35ft.

[5:31:36] For example.

[5:31:37] This particular plan as I mentioned,

[5:31:40] has a couple of different areas assemblage of three areas.

[5:31:46] But it has what we refer to in the applicant has labeled

[5:31:50] the South building zone, which is accessed by windy non lane.

[5:31:55] And then from colony Farm or excuse

[5:31:58] me, colony Drive and then the northern portion in the north

[5:32:04] building zone, which would be accessed

[5:32:07] with a new private street from existing quarry farm road.

[5:32:14] The total number of units.

[5:32:18] That's proposed is 18.

[5:32:19] And that maximum is included in the materials

[5:32:23] from the applicant They have included

[5:32:28] a limit on the number of units within each of these building

[5:32:32] zones, which would be up to 11.

[5:32:35] So for example, you know, if they did if they did fewer

[5:32:39] in one, they can't do as many.

[5:32:43] But the maximum overall is 18.

[5:32:47] This plan also given that it has multiple access points and also

[5:32:56] some constraints that will result in it,

[5:32:59] not completing any new public road segments.

[5:33:02] It is bound on a couple of access points

[5:33:05] from existing public roads.

[5:33:06] So these connections into the site again will be private.

[5:33:11] There is the commitment to a paved path that

[5:33:14] would provide accessibility from the northern part of the site

[5:33:19] down through it over to the existing sidewalk system,

[5:33:24] either in liberty Hall or down to future Eastern Avenue

[5:33:30] or the existing paved path down near Little Fox that

[5:33:34] extends along the 250 frontage.

[5:33:37] This development with the townhouse proposal

[5:33:41] and the limited number of the limit to the number of units

[5:33:44] that need each building zone might end up

[5:33:47] being similar to the row of townhouses

[5:33:48] that is grayed out and similar to some of that development

[5:33:52] that you see in Liberty hall currently.

[5:33:57] What is in addition to the regulations of the R six

[5:34:02] district.

[5:34:03] There is no requirement for buffers or screening

[5:34:06] between residential uses and based

[5:34:10] on public input and concern about adjacent neighborhoods.

[5:34:16] The there is what you will see as a ten foot buffer zone along

[5:34:22] property lines that are adjacent to existing residential

[5:34:25] in Liberty Hall the residence at 3:30,

[5:34:28] which is not part of this proposal.

[5:34:30] And then the existing residents in Corey Farm,

[5:34:35] the rear setback for R six is 20ft and the applicant has

[5:34:39] proposed an additional five feet for that rear setback to allow

[5:34:43] for some additional space between the new development.

[5:34:48] And this development.

[5:34:50] There was what we refer to as an illustrative plan, which means

[5:34:56] is an example of how the site could develop under the R

[5:35:01] six zoning regulations that would regulate it.

[5:35:03] And the features of the plan that they have made commitments

[5:35:07] to.

[5:35:08] So that would this is just showing you

[5:35:10] how there may be fewer units in the southern section

[5:35:15] than the northern section It's hard to see on this screen,

[5:35:19] but the applicant has demonstrated

[5:35:21] how they will manage stormwater on the site, which

[5:35:24] would be completely contained on this site.

[5:35:27] And not relying on any conveyance

[5:35:29] over in the or drainage to the liberty hall neighborhood.

[5:35:34] But would drain through the site to the stormwater stormwater

[5:35:38] facility that they have planned.

[5:35:41] Engineering staff has reviewed this

[5:35:43] and been out to the site several times

[5:35:45] based on some concerns about stormwater

[5:35:47] from the Liberty Hall residents.

[5:35:48] They didn't object to the proposal

[5:35:51] or see any hurdles with me meeting the D EMQQ

[5:35:55] regulations or local regulations with regard

[5:35:57] to managing stormwater on site and not

[5:36:01] having any impacts offsite I mentioned the proffers

[5:36:10] and what what commitments have been made with the plan

[5:36:14] and those features I think I've gone over in the in the plan

[5:36:18] may not have mentioned a few of the other elements

[5:36:22] include an additional drainage and slope easement or excuse me.

[5:36:27] Yes, drainage and slope easement That

[5:36:30] would be necessary to accommodate eastern Avenue.

[5:36:33] We mentioned the public paths and connectivity through there.

[5:36:37] And then based on the number of units

[5:36:41] the applicant has committed to proffers

[5:36:45] that are consistent with fully consistent with housing.

[5:36:47] Albemarle including that the percentage

[5:36:51] of units terms of affordability and the income limits.

[5:36:57] So if they build out to the maximum 18,

[5:37:01] for example, that would be up to affordable units

[5:37:06] We mentioned the review at the Planning Commission.

[5:37:08] Ultimately the last action by the Commission

[5:37:11] was a recommendation for denial We did receive a resubmit

[5:37:16] from the applicant and this proposed will includes

[5:37:19] some additional changes that were meant

[5:37:24] to address those concerns.

[5:37:26] We heard from the Commission and the public related

[5:37:29] to storm water defining and defining

[5:37:35] the boundaries and condition between this development

[5:37:40] and the adjacent and so I will pause there for any questions.

[5:37:47] All right.

[5:37:48] Thank you, Rebecca Supervisor Malik.

[5:37:50] Thank you.

[5:37:51] I will start at the bottom Most recent.

[5:37:53] So what are the changes that were proposed since the May

[5:37:59] Planning Commission?

[5:38:00] Because I didn't see that in my homework.

[5:38:02] If I missed it, I'm sorry I knew the path was new,

[5:38:05] but I didn't know there was anything else.

[5:38:07] It was substantial.

[5:38:09] So they made sure that that ten foot planted buffer zone

[5:38:14] around the perimeter or adjacent to existing resident marshall

[5:38:18] included was included in additional areas

[5:38:22] that it wasn't at the commission.

[5:38:25] The 25 foot rear setback was an increase

[5:38:29] from 20, which is the ordinance minimum to 25

[5:38:34] between the board I mean, excuse me,

[5:38:38] the Planning Commission and the board.

[5:38:39] And then they also there was an updated narrative proffer

[5:38:44] and concept plan to address stormwater

[5:38:49] an additional response to stormwater

[5:38:51] and some of the other concerns that

[5:38:52] were raised in the narrative.

[5:38:55] So that was what was provided in between the the Planning

[5:39:00] Commission Board.

[5:39:02] And so in the buffer zone around 330, for example,

[5:39:07] that ten foot green angle that you showed on one of the slides,

[5:39:10] what is the tree protection in that zone?

[5:39:13] Because having stood right there,

[5:39:16] there are multiple trees, two feet

[5:39:18] and 3 feet in diameter right along that buffer route

[5:39:24] So the proper that may not include the buffer

[5:39:29] would be landscaped, but it doesn't necessarily

[5:39:31] make a commitment to preserving the existing trees in that area

[5:39:37] Given a site like this.

[5:39:39] And the grading and everything that

[5:39:40] would be necessary to develop it it the developer

[5:39:45] has not made a commitment to preserving specific trees.

[5:39:50] Okay.

[5:39:50] And i will work our way back up the chain.

[5:39:54] Let's see, you had mentioned amenities

[5:39:57] and i did get some questions today.

[5:40:00] So let me just open that up.

[5:40:03] Come on.

[5:40:04] Are you well shoot.

[5:40:10] I'm sorry.

[5:40:11] One second and then died for crying out loud.

[5:40:20] The So where are the recreation?

[5:40:24] Closest Recreation and places for this one?

[5:40:31] The questions from one of the people

[5:40:33] who lives far away in Crozet.

[5:40:35] But not anywhere near his playground.

[5:40:37] Basketball court, Baseball field, soccer field.

[5:40:39] How will kids get there without parents driving them?

[5:40:43] We're talking about amenities.

[5:40:45] So I'm just wondering if any of those questions

[5:40:47] are included in the amenities.

[5:40:50] You mentioned So the starting point in the ordinance,

[5:40:55] there actually aren't amenity or recreation requirements

[5:40:59] for units of less than 30.

[5:41:02] This is a proposal for 18, but the proffers

[5:41:05] have made a commitment to provide amenities.

[5:41:09] The minimum amenities that would be

[5:41:11] required for under our ordinance in section 416.

[5:41:17] So there's volun they've proffered

[5:41:19] to comply with 416, which would include the tot lot

[5:41:25] as the amenities for this site.

[5:41:28] There.

[5:41:28] It's not one based on the number of units and the schedule

[5:41:31] on our ordinance that would require those other amenities.

[5:41:34] But it will be with Eastern avenue,

[5:41:37] hopefully more accessible to crozet Park

[5:41:42] within the development area.

[5:41:44] So this green rectangle on the slide, you have up now

[5:41:47] is where these features would be even though it's a very

[5:41:50] sleepy section right now.

[5:41:52] So the I have to cut cut that out.

[5:41:54] OK.

[5:41:55] I feel.

[5:41:56] Yes, that the green area on the illustrative

[5:41:59] is where they believe they have enough area

[5:42:01] to provide a amenities that are cited in the ordinance.

[5:42:07] But you'll also, you're seeing now

[5:42:09] how developers are getting creative

[5:42:11] with things that work with the area that they have

[5:42:15] and the characteristics of the location where

[5:42:19] they would go All right.

[5:42:21] Working my way back up the easement for Eastern Avenue,

[5:42:24] which you mentioned in the proffers,

[5:42:27] there seems to be a difference between what is

[5:42:30] shown on the applicant's map.

[5:42:32] And what the county's map is showing.

[5:42:35] And so who's going to be what's going to be this when the county

[5:42:39] needs this map to go forward with the Eastern Avenue

[5:42:43] procurement and who's going to be is the extra area going to be

[5:42:47] then provided or is the county going to be stuck with buying

[5:42:50] an extra 6000ft² or whatever to accomplish the construction

[5:42:55] of Eastern Avenue?

[5:42:55] Because there seems to be a pretty significant just

[5:42:59] a mismatch between this little slash

[5:43:02] triangle here and the bigger.

[5:43:04] It's about twice as big actually, on the county county

[5:43:07] maps So that may be something you're not

[5:43:10] prepared to answer right now, but it is certainly

[5:43:12] a discrepancy going forward.

[5:43:14] That could mean lots and lots of money to county taxpayers

[5:43:20] But we do have Kevin McDermott excuse me, McGovern.

[5:43:23] McDermott If you would like to call him up

[5:43:25] to answer any specific questions related to Eastern Avenue,

[5:43:31] we have to answer the question about the specific proffer.

[5:43:34] It's the 4500 and roughly seven 70 square foot

[5:43:37] area that had been identified up to this point

[5:43:40] for additional easements We Kevin,

[5:43:45] may have more details I could hear where

[5:43:49] Michael, our local bar and treasurer planning.

[5:43:51] We so currently miss Malik.

[5:43:54] We have conceptual plans for the widening of well, you

[5:43:59] know, the installation of the road and extension, the Eastern

[5:44:03] Avenue Connector There have been some concepts that we've looked

[5:44:06] at lately about, you know maybe reworking

[5:44:09] some of the sidewalk and shared use paths in this area.

[5:44:13] I don't believe at this point that the,

[5:44:14] you know, the right of way discussions

[5:44:16] we've been talking about would be outside of the area

[5:44:21] shown on this particular plan I'm not quite sure the exhibit

[5:44:24] that you're looking at.

[5:44:26] I guess it was part of the materials that were put together

[5:44:28] for the public meeting in Crazy a couple of weeks

[5:44:30] ago that showed official documents or somebody sufficient

[5:44:33] looking documents that showed a big arch for the construction

[5:44:38] easement, particularly as part of it, as opposed to

[5:44:41] and then it's encroaching.

[5:44:43] If having been there and seen how deep.

[5:44:47] That ball is, it begins on the white parcel going north and all

[5:44:51] those timber lines that are there is very steep

[5:44:55] and this stormwater pond that they're looking at,

[5:44:58] they're in the low spot is sort of at the bottom of the slope.

[5:45:02] That's going to have to be dealt with for the construction

[5:45:05] easement, for the roadway So it looks.

[5:45:07] I'm not an engineer, but it looks too small for me,

[5:45:10] considering the constraints, which are there So

[5:45:12] I just want to know who's going to get stuck

[5:45:14] with making those changes.

[5:45:15] And I don't think changes should be happening

[5:45:17] to the public project when we have an application in which

[5:45:21] is open for deliberation and would be easy enough

[5:45:25] for them to make sure that there is sufficient land provided

[5:45:28] for whatever the county needs for this long awaited roadway

[5:45:32] improvement Let's see So you basically in the buffer

[5:45:43] question, what will happen to the vegetation

[5:45:45] and will basically all be cut down

[5:45:47] and little shrubs will be put in the places the answer, I guess,

[5:45:50] that I took away from that no tree preservation was required.

[5:45:54] So the proper specify the replanting standards

[5:45:57] for the buffer areas that were proffered and that was keep

[5:46:05] excuse trying to refer to my screen here the there was a mix

[5:46:12] of ornamental and medium shade trees at at intervals of 30ft

[5:46:18] on center, existing healthy trees within the buffer zone are

[5:46:23] preserved, maybe if existing trees can be preserved,

[5:46:27] they will be counted towards the buffer.

[5:46:29] So they aim to try and preserve the existing trees,

[5:46:32] but it would be a mix of the ornamental in the shade

[5:46:36] trees in your presentation, you describe the multiple access

[5:46:44] points and then the outcome might be similar to the Liberty

[5:46:49] Hall townhouses over to the east for this upper northern building

[5:46:57] zone, but might be is not giving me enough information

[5:47:01] to know whether I can approve a particular application

[5:47:04] because there's no guarantee of what the proposals are going

[5:47:07] to be.

[5:47:08] And I'm old enough to know that things

[5:47:10] have changed between approval and final site plan.

[5:47:13] So I just want to know what is really being proposed that I

[5:47:17] think the board needs to know.

[5:47:18] And the applicant, the neighbors and the community

[5:47:21] certainly need to know what to be.

[5:47:24] What to expect up there.

[5:47:25] So the applicant will probably go into greater detail.

[5:47:29] But when you look at this row of townhouses,

[5:47:32] this represents the maximum 11 that

[5:47:34] could be achieved in a building envelope.

[5:47:37] So the limit is 11.

[5:47:40] And in one envelope and then 18 total.

[5:47:44] So this row here on the illustrative

[5:47:48] is roughly the same size as the Liberty Hall one over here.

[5:47:53] And that's why I just it's one, you

[5:47:55] know real world example that's nearby.

[5:47:59] And so footprints, footprints would

[5:48:02] need to be smaller in the other portion

[5:48:05] or, you know, they made regionally distributed.

[5:48:07] But this is an example given the area

[5:48:10] that they have to work with of the maximum they could achieve.

[5:48:14] I believe based on what we've looked at on this plan

[5:48:18] in in one of those buildings, owns

[5:48:20] given the the configuration of the parcel and the limit of 11

[5:48:23] and each one and the constraints of the configuration

[5:48:28] of the parcel are given and certainly

[5:48:30] something that was known before the purchase and the process

[5:48:33] even began.

[5:48:34] But these lots, the six townhouses

[5:48:37] are basically half the size of the units across the 25 foot

[5:48:41] buffer, which is there toward the east.

[5:48:45] And the lots over there are very, very close.

[5:48:49] Having And I guess the the townhouses on the east,

[5:48:53] the northern zone will have to be dug in to the slope

[5:48:57] is pretty steep, like 15 or so feet from top to bottom,

[5:49:01] going north over there.

[5:49:03] It's really hard to imagine how that's

[5:49:05] going to work because we were given no information about that.

[5:49:11] Oh, let's see.

[5:49:12] Going up to the top All right.

[5:49:15] I guess that's all the questions I have for right now.

[5:49:17] Thank you.

[5:49:18] Thank you very much.

[5:49:21] Supervise Duncan going into sort of the land use for it.

[5:49:25] Could you just refresh my memory on how long the Crozet master

[5:49:29] plan has been there and how many times it's been revised Well,

[5:49:35] crazy has its third master plan that were on right now the five,

[5:49:40] ten, 15 and 21.

[5:49:44] The 2005 was the first one.

[5:49:49] There's a four well, 3 to 4 times.

[5:49:52] But the designation of neighborhood density.

[5:49:55] And this general area hasn't changed

[5:49:57] substantially since in any of the master plans.

[5:50:01] And every time it gets revised, the public

[5:50:03] has a chance to like weigh in and sort of debate what they

[5:50:07] want the master plan to be.

[5:50:10] There's extensive public engagement with each

[5:50:12] of those master plan Thank you.

[5:50:15] And then in the packet you talk about

[5:50:19] that this area is designated and activities center.

[5:50:22] You just sort of refresh what that

[5:50:24] means that activity centers are noted

[5:50:30] where we have certain goals for them

[5:50:33] in terms of more than the most dense at the center

[5:50:37] of the activity center.

[5:50:38] And then supporting those in terms of walkability and density

[5:50:43] around them as it radiates out from the center,

[5:50:45] sort of roughly.

[5:50:47] Mr. Barnes may have things to add,

[5:50:49] but it's where there is a certain amount of facilities

[5:50:58] already that can serve even serve more infill

[5:51:02] And the intent, then is you have activities and places to be.

[5:51:06] And then the intends to have housing close by.

[5:51:10] So that people can make sure i'm definitely

[5:51:12] mixed use in the center.

[5:51:14] And then I guess my last question

[5:51:16] is so you believe that this meets

[5:51:19] the higher requirements for stormwater and soil

[5:51:22] and sediment?

[5:51:23] Rose control, and all that You know, we with rezonings

[5:51:30] are looking at feasibility.

[5:51:32] So we wouldn't be able to say it meets it

[5:51:36] until it goes through the full extensive engineer and site plan

[5:51:39] review process, but we didn't see any hurdles to them

[5:51:44] being able to comply.

[5:51:45] No, that's all i have.

[5:51:46] Thank you.

[5:51:48] Supervisor Pruitt, this is going to be a really weird question

[5:51:52] to begin with.

[5:51:53] But do you know what this is like?

[5:51:54] This was just put on our desk.

[5:51:57] I don't want to say it came from as a party That's correct.

[5:52:01] OK.

[5:52:01] Got it Thank you.

[5:52:04] I was just legitimately confused and figured,

[5:52:06] you know, we're asking questions because it

[5:52:09] looks like it's part of the packet,

[5:52:10] but it's the massing is different.

[5:52:12] And so I was a little thrown In fact, I was so through

[5:52:18] and I forgot what my next question was.

[5:52:19] Oh, yes, can you talk us through?

[5:52:21] Because I know there were rounds of changes.

[5:52:25] We talked about the change that was

[5:52:28] made after the planning Commission voted either five 1

[5:52:34] or 6 1 2 deny it recently.

[5:52:36] But then there was also a vote for deferral.

[5:52:40] What were the differences between the vote for defer roll

[5:52:42] and next appearance before the Planning Commission?

[5:52:45] That there was actually a decision on?

[5:52:48] I think one of the bigger items was the distribution of units

[5:52:53] between the two buildings zones the second time I went

[5:52:57] to the commission was where there was the commitment

[5:52:59] to establish the maximum within each zone of 11.

[5:53:02] Prior to that, there were potentially fewer units

[5:53:07] in the southern building zone.

[5:53:10] So the part of the response from the planning Commission

[5:53:13] initially that they returned for was to actually increase

[5:53:17] the density on the southern part. yes.

[5:53:22] And the commission specifically said, I think balance the site.

[5:53:28] But I think just distribute distributing the density perhaps

[5:53:32] would have addressed their concerns about if there's

[5:53:36] fewer in each one perhaps compatibility

[5:53:38] with the surrounding neighborhoods.

[5:53:40] But they didn't say that specifically under

[5:53:43] and was it after the first iteration, before the planning

[5:53:49] commission or the second that this little the stormwater

[5:53:54] reach back was added this section of piping

[5:53:58] to the northern section stormwater

[5:54:02] has been a topic from the first visit

[5:54:04] to the Planning Commission and the second visit.

[5:54:07] And this visit.

[5:54:08] So I can't remember exactly what was provided

[5:54:10] when I think each time the applicant has addressed

[5:54:15] their strategies and provided even,

[5:54:17] you know, a response to what they've heard at each

[5:54:20] of those meetings, each time Understood that the stormwater

[5:54:27] piping is something that I simultaneously understand what

[5:54:30] it's trying to accomplish and the specific concern.

[5:54:33] It's trying to speak to.

[5:54:35] But this is just to kind of cede the conversation that will later

[5:54:39] happen.

[5:54:40] I see what it's trying to accomplish right ?

[5:54:42] We know that in the northern part of this parcel

[5:54:44] there are drainage issues.

[5:54:45] And it's trying to make it so that there is clarity

[5:54:48] that the water on the upper part of the parcel

[5:54:51] will actually get to the stormwater retention I get it,

[5:54:54] but I'm also looking at it.

[5:54:56] And I'm seeing if this is creating

[5:54:58] a piece of infrastructure that will need replace and repair,

[5:55:03] which is currently the exact debacle

[5:55:05] that the neighbors are grappling with.

[5:55:09] So this is a point of frustration with me

[5:55:13] that, yes, it's resolving potentially

[5:55:15] part of the problem of stormwater

[5:55:17] pooling on the Northern parcel, but introducing

[5:55:21] another problem which is creating

[5:55:24] a piece of infrastructure that will be on future residents

[5:55:27] to repair replace 20 to 30 years from now.

[5:55:30] Right.

[5:55:31] Like retrenching is expensive.

[5:55:32] It sucks not wants to do it.

[5:55:35] And it's never covered by your insurance

[5:55:38] I assume it's not covered by HOA insurance in so far

[5:55:41] as such a thing exists.

[5:55:42] I don't know.

[5:55:42] Not nature way water.

[5:55:45] I can you.

[5:55:48] I want to make sure I got this correctly.

[5:55:50] There's the amenity area proffered the amenity areas not

[5:55:54] bound to a specific place, but it's notionally

[5:55:58] drawn on our map.

[5:56:00] And it sounds like if I heard correctly, the amenity proper

[5:56:03] is not required based on the number of units

[5:56:07] Is that accurate?

[5:56:09] Yes.

[5:56:11] And i recognize we're not in a position

[5:56:16] to do anything about this.

[5:56:17] I find this frustrating because it

[5:56:20] acts like it is something that is being given given to us

[5:56:24] as the county, as the public, as the representatives

[5:56:27] of the public as something that is protecting

[5:56:29] their interests by potentially creating a problem which

[5:56:32] is removing a level of flexibility from the plan

[5:56:36] to try and make it better in other ways,

[5:56:39] because at some point, they have to accommodate a certain size

[5:56:42] footprint and I don't know, I guess

[5:56:46] i'm bringing this up because it seems like something that we

[5:56:48] as a county need to potentially be better about communicating

[5:56:52] and messaging what we think and want on amenity areas.

[5:56:57] Right.

[5:56:57] Because like, well, look at that thing Ain't

[5:57:00] nobody got to use that for anything, right?

[5:57:02] It's not a meaningful amenity area.

[5:57:04] And I think we can all like in our secret heart of hearts,

[5:57:06] acknowledge that most of these top lots

[5:57:08] aren't being used for a lot of things

[5:57:10] when they're below a certain size.

[5:57:12] And I feel that when I look at the notional amenity area

[5:57:15] here, what it does do is it makes it

[5:57:17] so that you have to negotiate eight massing around that right?

[5:57:22] It makes it so that, oh, if some part of this plan

[5:57:26] changes and allows massing to change and shift,

[5:57:29] you've still got to preserve and retain that piece.

[5:57:33] And so basically they've proffered something

[5:57:36] that makes it harder for the development

[5:57:37] to be good as it goes forward through the next stages

[5:57:41] of approval.

[5:57:41] If it's approved here tonight.

[5:57:43] And that's more just me ranting for a little bit here.

[5:57:46] And this is also interesting because I'm

[5:57:48] realizing the amenity area I've been ranting about

[5:57:50] is not on the screen at all.

[5:57:51] It's on one of the other things.

[5:57:55] Unless i'm tripping, Right.

[5:57:57] It's supposed to be like right there.

[5:57:58] There is there is I think that's all I have at this stage.

[5:58:03] And I have more for the applicant unless I'm sorry.

[5:58:05] Mr. Meyers.

[5:58:06] And they just wouldn't mind back to the stormwater thing.

[5:58:08] I just.

[5:58:09] Yeah, please.

[5:58:09] The points really are is water going to transversal

[5:58:13] on the other property?

[5:58:14] And I think it's one of the concerns

[5:58:16] and we don't think that it will.

[5:58:17] We think that the engineering department is locked in.

[5:58:20] The applicant will be able to keep the water on their site.

[5:58:23] The conveyance system that you're seeing,

[5:58:25] there's sort of like to further illustrate

[5:58:27] how that would be put on to retain on their property That

[5:58:31] will be something that is required by both state

[5:58:33] and local regulations to keep your point about the expense

[5:58:38] that's taken that's going to be with all of the amenities

[5:58:41] that we're looking to for the ordinance,

[5:58:44] whether it's this parcel or any other development

[5:58:46] that we review.

[5:58:47] Sure.

[5:58:48] And remind me is the is the inlet piping,

[5:58:52] is that formally proffered and therefore require moving forward

[5:58:56] or this is notional It's required

[5:58:59] regardless for any property that would develop like this.

[5:59:02] It's covered via ordinance into a Q regulations.

[5:59:04] So there wouldn't it wouldn't there

[5:59:07] wasn't anything any impact identified that a proffer would

[5:59:10] need to address.

[5:59:12] Or the developer would need to address uniquely on this site.

[5:59:15] And that's why you're seeing it on the illustrative plan

[5:59:17] and not on if the previous plan had

[5:59:20] to provide that by ordinance, not by proffer Understood.

[5:59:24] Thank you That's all I have.

[5:59:29] Supervisor Missile.

[5:59:30] Great.

[5:59:31] Thank you.

[5:59:32] A lot of my questions have been answered by staff.

[5:59:34] A bunch.

[5:59:34] I just want to run through.

[5:59:36] So this one's kind of subjective, I guess.

[5:59:39] In addition to changes that you noted

[5:59:42] that were the result of the Planning Commission

[5:59:44] or at least between the Planning Commission recommendation

[5:59:46] and for denial.

[5:59:47] And today, are you aware of any conversations

[5:59:51] the applicants had with the adjacent homeowners?

[5:59:55] I will defer to the applicant on that.

[5:59:58] Sounds good.

[5:59:59] You mentioned the Crozet master plan

[6:00:01] is this area is not changed on the master plan

[6:00:03] since its inception in 2005, correct I heard that correctly,

[6:00:08] yes.

[6:00:08] So I went back to the original cities transect map with the.

[6:00:14] OK.

[6:00:15] And you used or someone use the word feasibility at one point.

[6:00:19] Right.

[6:00:19] And I'm also kind of side note, trying

[6:00:21] to keep separate in my mind site plan related issues and zoning

[6:00:25] issues Right.

[6:00:25] And I think that's a critically important thing

[6:00:28] because some of the stuff we're talking about is really more

[6:00:30] site plan review.

[6:00:31] And I know you guys have mentioned that,

[6:00:33] but in terms of feasibility there's on this plan,

[6:00:37] there's a couple of references to private streets and access.

[6:00:42] And I'm aware of some issues with access easements in order

[6:00:46] for staff to support this plan.

[6:00:49] Did you all confirm them that the access easements

[6:00:52] are actually, in fact, there and legal and available?

[6:00:55] Or does that become discovery in the site plan process?

[6:01:02] So the two main access points are

[6:01:05] from existing, publicly dedicated

[6:01:08] right of way from quarry farm and from Colony Drive.

[6:01:14] And then the easement and Wendy Knoll

[6:01:18] is a private access that extends from little Fox Lane.

[6:01:24] Ultimately up to serve 330 when you know a lane.

[6:01:27] So could you point to that on here just so I'm.

[6:01:30] Yeah, I understand.

[6:01:31] I'm sorry for everybody else.

[6:01:32] So this is what is named Wendy no Lane that comes up

[6:01:36] from little Fox and the easement is for access across the owners.

[6:01:44] The developer of this proposal to serve.

[6:01:47] 330 So it's for their access.

[6:01:53] There isn't anything that we found,

[6:01:57] we can't speak to the private agreements,

[6:02:01] but the access would continue and be available for 330.

[6:02:06] And then, of course, there is potentially

[6:02:11] a crossing of across, across it and improvements potential.

[6:02:16] But we didn't identify any other concerns.

[6:02:23] And to.

[6:02:24] Go ahead.

[6:02:25] No.

[6:02:25] After you know, I was just going to say the other identified

[6:02:29] private street on the top of the slide there.

[6:02:31] Yeah, that's another easement area

[6:02:33] that you may be asking about as well.

[6:02:34] That and also to the right where it says Private Street.

[6:02:37] Okay.

[6:02:38] So to the latter one the one and Ralph Colony

[6:02:40] Drive that large part of the reason why that's not

[6:02:43] a public street is you can kind of see there's a full pinch

[6:02:47] point Yeah, that area parcel you know

[6:02:52] the 330 parcel kind of comes in there and creates

[6:02:55] or pinch point.

[6:02:55] That's one of the reasons that we

[6:02:57] weren't able to extend a public street from Colony drive

[6:03:00] because we didn't have the developer didn't have

[6:03:02] the right of way, and we were certainly were

[6:03:03] pushed for a public street in that area.

[6:03:05] And you're talking about the area that's

[6:03:07] marked private street at the top or bottom

[6:03:10] or I was trying to catch you in the order you were coming up

[6:03:12] from the lower one.

[6:03:13] Lower, Right.

[6:03:14] OK.

[6:03:14] Yes.

[6:03:15] Yes.

[6:03:15] And you see that point?

[6:03:16] That's and that is part of the reason why

[6:03:18] you're seeing a private street extended in that area.

[6:03:20] So the private street can be narrower therefore,

[6:03:22] and get by that point, we don't have the 50ft of right away

[6:03:27] in that area or extend a public street.

[6:03:29] There's a private street shown and the private street

[6:03:31] can access three dwelling units three dwelling units, max Yeah,

[6:03:36] Private street access.

[6:03:39] OK.

[6:03:40] Well, there's not a limit to the number

[6:03:44] of private streets per say.

[6:03:47] There is sort of a tier of private streets,

[6:03:50] share driveways would serve to private streets.

[6:03:55] There are certain again, tiers and standards

[6:03:59] based on the number of lots.

[6:04:01] That's two or fewer, 3 to 5 and then five or more.

[6:04:04] It's not prohibited I see based on the number of lots

[6:04:08] that you can't have a private street,

[6:04:09] but they're very specific circumstances

[6:04:11] where private streets are allowed to be served

[6:04:13] in the development areas.

[6:04:15] What unit type and it is set up between agent and planning

[6:04:21] commission approval in some cases,

[6:04:23] planning Commission approval may be

[6:04:24] necessary for a private street Got it.

[6:04:28] And that would be a process.

[6:04:29] They would still have to go through Yes, I

[6:04:33] felt I mentioned in my presentation,

[6:04:35] you may have seen in the PC packet planning commission

[6:04:37] packet a couple of very specific waivers,

[6:04:41] but this is a concept plan.

[6:04:43] And we felt it was more appropriate to go

[6:04:45] through the final process of approval

[6:04:47] for the streets site plan, where we had all of the details

[6:04:50] as you anticipate in my next question.

[6:04:55] Thank you The and the upper which

[6:05:00] is private street at the top with the orange triangle, that's

[6:05:03] another easement right It was in the I

[6:05:07] think it was in a key on one of the drawings that purple area.

[6:05:12] There you go.

[6:05:13] It's purple, not orange This is a that's an access easement.

[6:05:19] And that is an easement that's already

[6:05:24] in place from the planning of quarry Farm.

[6:05:28] Right.

[6:05:28] Okay.

[6:05:29] And a private street would establish the right of way

[6:05:33] for the private street.

[6:05:34] That would serve this north building zone.

[6:05:37] Yeah, wouldn't it?

[6:05:38] Yes.

[6:05:39] Applicant would have to obtain an easement there.

[6:05:41] Right Well, it's there's no triangle there is a yes,

[6:05:46] there is overlap.

[6:05:48] There's a triangle within the triangle Yes.

[6:05:50] Believe is what you're referring to now right here where there is

[6:05:55] and I'm sure the applicant will elaborate further.

[6:05:58] There is quarry Farm, there's right away for Eastern Avenue.

[6:06:02] And then there is quarry Farm, open space,

[6:06:04] and an already granted easement from quarry Farm over there,

[6:06:08] open space, very tiny little triangle within that triangle

[6:06:12] that we've dedicated years ago.

[6:06:14] Just to be clear.

[6:06:15] Got it.

[6:06:16] Thank you.

[6:06:16] And so this may be a question.

[6:06:18] I don't know for counsel that the easement,

[6:06:21] if there are discrepancies or if there

[6:06:23] are issues with the easement, that staff

[6:06:25] is not aware of, when will that be discussed?

[6:06:30] Is that at the site plan where you'll go find?

[6:06:33] They'll have the which easements that you will use any access

[6:06:37] easement if, for example, coming in at the bottom right hand

[6:06:39] corner, if the pinch point is too narrow

[6:06:41] and they can't fit a private street in there

[6:06:43] for some reason, that would be determined.

[6:06:45] That site plan.

[6:06:47] Right.

[6:06:47] OK Talked about interconnecting streets a little bit.

[6:06:57] So the stormwater i mean Yeah I think this was mentioned that

[6:07:03] just by what I mean by regulation stormwater cannot

[6:07:06] spill over to adjacent properties right?

[6:07:08] They have to capture it on their own property.

[6:07:10] That's going to be a site plan requirement

[6:07:12] Quality and quantity have to be captured on their site plan.

[6:07:17] Are there any i may have missed this?

[6:07:19] Are there any tree preservation requirements and/or proffers

[6:07:25] or offers in this plan?

[6:07:28] There are the there are the proffers in the the

[6:07:33] for the buffers.

[6:07:34] There aren't there buffer piece.

[6:07:36] But not any specific tree preservation areas.

[6:07:39] No, there wasn't a tree conservation plan that one.

[6:07:42] That's what I was looking for.

[6:07:43] Got it.

[6:07:43] Thanks.

[6:07:47] On page nine nine there's a note in the upper left.

[6:07:53] That's kind of cut off.

[6:07:55] No specific improvements are shown

[6:07:56] to demonstrate feasibility of concept that

[6:07:58] are for demonstration purposes only.

[6:08:01] Site layout is regulated by sheet for concept plan

[6:08:06] Can you go to sheet for this is sheet for yes.

[6:08:11] Sheet five and 6.

[6:08:12] In the upper right.

[6:08:14] It says of this is thank you.

[6:08:22] This is actually sheet five is the same as sheet four.

[6:08:25] Except that the blue and red arrows

[6:08:29] are shown to demonstrate the vehicular and pedestrian

[6:08:34] circulation I don't have sheet for in the slide show,

[6:08:38] but it's very similar to.

[6:08:40] OK.

[6:08:40] So that would be what governs not the other one.

[6:08:43] Previous one.

[6:08:44] Got it.

[6:08:45] And i just want to make sure I'm getting this right.

[6:08:50] So the 11 dwelling units, Max, the north and the 11 dwelling

[6:08:55] units, max on the south can only total up to 18 dwelling units.

[6:08:59] Right Yes.

[6:09:00] Is there anything that's preventing them

[6:09:02] from putting in 18 dwelling units in the north and nine

[6:09:05] at the bottom?

[6:09:06] Yes Okay.

[6:09:08] That's that is this plan and the proffer and the proffer.

[6:09:13] OK.

[6:09:13] Got it.

[6:09:14] Another we put our total on the site.

[6:09:17] Yeah.

[6:09:17] And no more than 11 on either the upper or lower.

[6:09:20] One of the like ten at the upper one they

[6:09:23] could put eight in the lower one.

[6:09:24] That type of effect Got it.

[6:09:26] Thank you.

[6:09:31] Just make sure I'm getting everything

[6:09:41] I think that covers it.

[6:09:42] Thank you.

[6:09:43] Supervisor Stoker thank you for the presentation

[6:09:48] and my my understanding is that the residents would

[6:09:53] like fewer homes in the north section

[6:09:57] and more in the South section.

[6:09:59] Correct I am not sure if that was

[6:10:04] One of the public comments in the minutes or not.

[6:10:06] OK, It wasn't.

[6:10:07] But when I went out there and met with them,

[6:10:10] that seemed to be the desire for.

[6:10:12] And the information we're getting the emails

[6:10:14] were getting that they wanted more.

[6:10:17] The Southern part, but my understanding.

[6:10:22] There's they can't have more in the southern part without having

[6:10:27] the private street be a public road.

[6:10:29] Correct.

[6:10:31] The southern area does bring challenges in terms of access.

[6:10:36] Right.

[6:10:36] And if it was a public road, if they had enough area,

[6:10:40] then they could put more homes in the southern area.

[6:10:44] But they it has to be a private street because

[6:10:47] of the size, the limited access they have there, correct?

[6:10:51] Yes Okay.

[6:10:53] And I think at the site plan level,

[6:10:56] they're going to actually decide how many buildings they want

[6:11:00] in the northern part, how many they want in the southern part

[6:11:03] Correct.

[6:11:04] Right now, they have that flexibility.

[6:11:06] It's 18 total, but they can there's 22.

[6:11:09] But they can only put in 18.

[6:11:11] But they can do any combination they want as long as it fits.

[6:11:16] Yes, that's okay.

[6:11:18] Write right And if you could go to I think it's nine number,

[6:11:23] slide nine Okay.

[6:11:27] So the little green rectangle to the left of the northern path,

[6:11:33] that's amenity area.

[6:11:35] Do you know what that with the size of that is about?

[6:11:39] Or should I say again, I would ask the applicant to have that.

[6:11:42] Oh i see.

[6:11:43] Applicant I think it.

[6:11:44] Yeah.

[6:11:45] Pardon.

[6:11:46] I would ask the applicant.

[6:11:47] OK.

[6:11:48] Okay.

[6:11:48] And then there is a path, a walking path

[6:11:51] from the northern part to the southern part.

[6:11:56] And that's so that they can access either Corey Farm road.

[6:12:02] Would that lead to the grocery store along

[6:12:05] with going through the private street Colony Drive?

[6:12:10] What would both of those go to the local grocery

[6:12:14] store, which is, I think about a half mile away Yes.

[6:12:18] There is a well with the Eastern Avenue

[6:12:22] that would provide a fill in that would provide

[6:12:26] the pedestrian facilities.

[6:12:27] Right now, the paved path on the court on quarry Farm Road

[6:12:31] starts down at Little Fox.

[6:12:34] But there is a complete sidewalk system within Liberty Hall.

[6:12:37] But it could provide for opportunity and either direction

[6:12:41] Okay.

[6:12:42] Got it.

[6:12:42] And I understood.

[6:12:44] Correct me if I'm wrong, is that on the northern part

[6:12:48] on the right hand side, right next to Liberty Hall

[6:12:52] that the applicant intends to keep as many trees as they can

[6:13:01] They have indicated a willingness

[6:13:03] but haven't committed with us a specific conservation

[6:13:06] plan to which individual trees will be saved

[6:13:09] and when would that be done At the site?

[6:13:12] At the site plan.

[6:13:13] So a lot of things are going to happen at the site plan.

[6:13:15] OK.

[6:13:16] Those are all my questions right now.

[6:13:18] Thank you.

[6:13:19] All right I'm just trying I have some questions

[6:13:26] I think I'm going to hold until we hear

[6:13:27] from the open the public hearing and hear

[6:13:29] from the from the public and the applicant to ask them to follow.

[6:13:34] If there's no objection.

[6:13:35] Were there any other questions for staff before we do so?

[6:13:37] I have a couple.

[6:13:39] Yeah.

[6:13:40] All right So in your description of further clarity

[6:13:44] on the private street in the rural area,

[6:13:47] the third unit requires a wider acceptable road.

[6:13:51] But you're saying that now in the growth area between three

[6:13:55] and five units has some other private road possibility?

[6:13:59] We haven't That is the ordinance refers

[6:14:02] to meeting Vidor's standards are it

[6:14:05] just flexibility in the design and elements of the road

[6:14:11] You know, for example, they recognize

[6:14:13] they may not be able to get a sidewalk section on both sides.

[6:14:16] They may be seeking sidewalk and street tree waivers on one side.

[6:14:20] So there will be the travel lanes will meet standards.

[6:14:26] It's where they may see classic flexibility

[6:14:30] in the entire streets section.

[6:14:33] So the window lane, that's currently like 11ft wide,

[6:14:36] the whole thing that would be expected to go to 26.

[6:14:40] So the standard for a shared driveway,

[6:14:42] which serves only two lots, is ten feet wide for pavement.

[6:14:47] But okay, my picture will probably i

[6:14:50] can pull up a picture.

[6:14:52] But anyway.

[6:14:52] But it's now going to be expected

[6:14:54] to do three or whatever.

[6:14:56] I mean, there are three now on this tiny little

[6:15:00] so they may feel hearing access.

[6:15:02] They're not necessarily with the two access points.

[6:15:08] It doesn't for example, windy no Lane

[6:15:11] if it only serves its existing and the lots have been created

[6:15:17] so it's the number of new lots when you get

[6:15:19] into the subdivision ordinance.

[6:15:20] So but it is a 20 foot access easement

[6:15:25] that could be widened within that 20 foot access easement.

[6:15:28] But the pavement width right now may maybe narrower

[6:15:34] So they would be allowed to pave right

[6:15:35] out to the end of their easement to get a fire truck in there.

[6:15:40] For example.

[6:15:41] But if that's.

[6:15:42] Yes OK And I guess I'm just the word feasibility

[6:15:50] and decided that site plan is still being mentioned every five

[6:15:54] minutes here.

[6:15:54] And that is a great uncertainty for everybody in the room.

[6:15:58] So it's impacting the applicant as well.

[6:16:01] So I think as much certainty as we can get during this process

[6:16:05] will be really helpful for everyone going forward.

[6:16:08] And I continue to ask questions.

[6:16:10] Thank you Any other.

[6:16:14] All right.

[6:16:14] We'll open the public hearing.

[6:16:16] Do we have folks signed up?

[6:16:17] Claudette?

[6:16:21] And if you're in the room and you have not signed up,

[6:16:23] you will need to do so.

[6:16:25] But the sign up does remain open.

[6:16:27] It's down over here to the house right Okay.

[6:16:34] We have in-person and online all the

[6:16:36] read the rules of the road speakers

[6:16:38] are limited to one up here.

[6:16:40] There was a question here Go ahead.

[6:16:43] You're good.

[6:16:44] Okay.

[6:16:45] Speakers are limited to one appearance

[6:16:46] of up to three minutes.

[6:16:47] Applicants are allowed ten minutes

[6:16:48] for their presentation and five minutes for rebuttal.

[6:16:51] At the close of the hearing In person, speakers

[6:16:53] will be heard first, followed by online, online participants

[6:16:56] coordinated by the clerk to ensure equal treatment

[6:16:59] and courtesy for all speakers.

[6:17:00] The board requests that the following guidelines

[6:17:01] be observed.

[6:17:02] Please state your name.

[6:17:03] And if you live now Monroe County,

[6:17:05] your magisterial district comments

[6:17:06] should be directed to the board as a whole.

[6:17:08] Written statement to supporting materials

[6:17:10] may be provided to the clerk online.

[6:17:12] Participants may also submit comments to the comment portal

[6:17:15] or by email to the clerk If representing a group

[6:17:18] or organization, and you may ask others

[6:17:19] present to raise their hands in recognition.

[6:17:22] Speakers may not share unused time with another speaker

[6:17:25] back and forth debate is not permitted.

[6:17:27] And speakers should not speak from their seat

[6:17:29] or out of turn for in-person speakers.

[6:17:31] The podium timer will guide your time.

[6:17:32] Green indicate your time has begun.

[6:17:34] Yellow means one minute remains in red

[6:17:36] indicates your time has expired.

[6:17:38] Online participants will be notified when time has expired

[6:17:41] and microphones will be muted shortly thereafter.

[6:17:44] All comments are recorded, live streamed and published

[6:17:46] on the county website.

[6:17:48] A couple of notes.

[6:17:48] The sign up period does not close

[6:17:50] once public comment begins, speakers

[6:17:54] may sign up to speak during the duration of the public comment

[6:17:56] period.

[6:17:58] The podium is adjustable.

[6:17:59] Speakers are encouraged to raise or lower it.

[6:18:01] So they are able to speak directly into the microphone

[6:18:05] that where we got the applicant first.

[6:18:08] So we'll bring the applicant forward for the presentation

[6:18:10] and then we go to our.

[6:18:12] That's right, public comments Speakers over here.

[6:18:16] There.

[6:18:16] Thank you.

[6:18:19] Good evening.

[6:18:20] You got your ten minutes, Justin.

[6:18:22] Thank you.

[6:18:23] Good evening, everyone.

[6:18:24] I'm supporting Justin Champagne engineer for this project.

[6:18:28] I'm representing both Harrington and a friend of mine

[6:18:30] and the owner of this Pride property.

[6:18:32] Let me see if I can get this started.

[6:18:35] There's a lot of good questions asked in this lead up

[6:18:40] to the discussion here.

[6:18:42] I will try to answer further.

[6:18:43] Anything else and be happy to, of course, answer questions

[6:18:46] at the end.

[6:18:46] So the property here, Sean, you've seen this on the map

[6:18:51] to for freshers or between Cory Farm Liberty Hall

[6:18:54] and you see the Harris Teeter there.

[6:18:56] Hello.

[6:18:56] That is sort of a center that that area that we

[6:18:59] talk about as the center of development

[6:19:02] where you want to have your connectivity getting to it.

[6:19:07] Our quest is 18 units on 3.1, 4, six acres.

[6:19:10] That's about 5.7 years.

[6:19:12] Thank you.

[6:19:12] Just under six, which is the comprehensive plan

[6:19:15] recommendation here.

[6:19:17] As was noted, we have our 20% affordable housing and provide

[6:19:21] and it is indeed in walking proximity to the shops.

[6:19:24] It clearly on this project will enhance

[6:19:28] the mix of units in the neighborhood in a higher density

[6:19:31] compared to quarry farms and sparrow

[6:19:35] Hill which were developed.

[6:19:36] It's purely single family dwellings

[6:19:39] that main update since the Planning Commission mean

[6:19:42] that the 526 meeting was the addition of additional

[6:19:45] was adding buffers and increased setback on the Liberty Hall side

[6:19:49] I was one of the details of that with the floor

[6:19:51] plan, some additional stormwater management details.

[6:19:54] And then I'll go back one more meeting.

[6:19:56] You heard some of those changes at the February one.

[6:19:58] I think the big one was clarifying the shared use path.

[6:20:03] We had a little bit of a unclear solution

[6:20:06] to how we were going to get folks connected on the site.

[6:20:09] At the first Planning Commission meeting.

[6:20:10] And so we worked the staff and I,

[6:20:11] I think a very good solution for connectivity for the site

[6:20:15] and that was the main focus of the first planning Commission

[6:20:20] meeting.

[6:20:20] The amenity requirements that folks spoke of really, really

[6:20:23] came out of response to the planning Commission request

[6:20:26] after they heard from the residents

[6:20:28] thinking that we needed amenities It is indeed

[6:20:30] a double edged sword that the folks who live here ultimately

[6:20:33] pay for those as their cost.

[6:20:35] But I think that this particular area is not.

[6:20:38] It's meets the ordinance requirements around 2000ft².

[6:20:42] There's a certain number of square feet per unit two,

[6:20:45] you're required to do in Section 416.

[6:20:47] And so we proffered basically to follow

[6:20:48] that as though we had more than 30 units, even though we have

[6:20:52] fewer, as the code says 30 enough,

[6:20:54] you have this requirement, our 18 would trigger it.

[6:20:57] We proffered it anyway.

[6:20:58] Essentially still amortize about this for a moment.

[6:21:02] But I want to clarify something.

[6:21:03] We don't believe this is a zoning issue.

[6:21:05] We know it's a topic of interest for everybody

[6:21:07] because it sounds like there's a big expense coming

[6:21:09] for those folks that HOA maintaining upon the pond.

[6:21:12] It's kind of off page north of us

[6:21:15] where here is the limit of our property.

[6:21:18] So water currently does drain that way,

[6:21:20] is kind of a divisive issue in front of Hatcher here.

[6:21:22] This orange drains this way along the site,

[6:21:24] drains this way to our stormwater pond,

[6:21:26] goes and has been discussed, you know,

[6:21:29] whether we want to or not we have

[6:21:32] to meet the D EMQQ mandated regulations for stormwater

[6:21:35] management.

[6:21:36] We cannot discharge large additional runoff

[6:21:38] to our neighbor's property.

[6:21:39] In fact, we have to reduce it So it goes

[6:21:41] to our neighbor's property.

[6:21:43] Ironically, the only caveat around the only loophole

[6:21:46] to that requirement is if you develop a single family house,

[6:21:50] less than one acre of disturbance

[6:21:52] So if this is not zoned, one could

[6:21:55] clear all the trees in here.

[6:21:56] Take all of the tall grass out, convert it into driveway,

[6:21:59] is a large house, a 6,000 square foot house,

[6:22:02] and you haven't required to do any stormwater mitigation.

[6:22:04] That's literally the only way you get around that.

[6:22:06] So with this proposal, what are we going forward with?

[6:22:09] More than one house permit?

[6:22:11] Those requirements surrounding the site,

[6:22:13] You've got a mix of single family.

[6:22:16] You have some townhomes very similar to Liberty Hall.

[6:22:20] Interesting map here shows the growth area

[6:22:22] immediately adjacent to the center.

[6:22:25] You'll see a predominantly single family mix

[6:22:28] And so that's why we view that the six units nacre

[6:22:30] the 5.7 units nacre here promoting townhomes

[6:22:33] or attached product provides more housing opportunity

[6:22:37] and a lower price point.

[6:22:38] Housing opportunity for folks who

[6:22:40] desire to live within walking distance of those amenities.

[6:22:43] So comprehensive plan talks in numerous ways

[6:22:45] about providing density near these centers.

[6:22:48] We're not above the comprehensive plan density.

[6:22:50] We feel it's appropriate to be right about that.

[6:22:52] For all those reasons Here's a quick illustration of that two

[6:22:57] shows that the walking shared is a part of the description.

[6:23:00] This is the walking shed from our site.

[6:23:02] And you see it picks up the ten minute walk and shed.

[6:23:05] There's two years that we all the things that

[6:23:07] are amenities for folks.

[6:23:09] This is the point I'll stop for a minute here

[6:23:11] is the red line here is where the comp plans show

[6:23:15] a potential public street connection county drive through.

[6:23:18] There's a couple of issues with that.

[6:23:20] One is the right of way.

[6:23:21] We don't have two.

[6:23:22] Is the grade approaching from the end of our site

[6:23:26] down is very difficult to recreate Tyria We looked at this

[6:23:30] and said to ourselves, you know, it's

[6:23:33] not I know it's been drawn now, but eventually there's

[6:23:36] an Eastern connector coming this way, which you are working hard

[6:23:38] to get built. There is this Oak Bluffs development

[6:23:41] that on that last application plan

[6:23:43] showed a picture connection right here.

[6:23:46] So that closed the loop with an automobile.

[6:23:48] But if i live over here.

[6:23:50] And I want to take my bike over to here

[6:23:52] or here, I do not want to go out and bike on route to 50,

[6:23:56] down to hear Cedar.

[6:23:58] So the shared use path we install here

[6:23:59] will be a public shared use path that allowed folks

[6:24:02] to get from this neighborhood through our site

[6:24:05] and over to that center.

[6:24:06] So we think that was the right solution for connectivity

[6:24:09] for neighbor.

[6:24:09] We want the staff to develop that.

[6:24:11] That's part of what took some time for this.

[6:24:15] So here's the concept plan.

[6:24:16] This is the sheet for haircuts.

[6:24:18] And this is what you're voting on is this drawing.

[6:24:20] And there's a lot of hang up at the planning commission talking

[6:24:22] about would there be townhomes here

[6:24:25] and how far they apart from the other homes and the reality

[6:24:29] is we don't know what we're going to put there I know it's

[6:24:32] a desire of everyone to see.

[6:24:34] And you're accustomed to seeing large developed plans, right?

[6:24:36] Ten, 20, 30 acres where I have a neighborhood model.

[6:24:39] So all the streets and the houses,

[6:24:41] right as it were, working infill development.

[6:24:44] And I think we had the lesson of the 999 project

[6:24:46] to go from there with where we got the zoning approval was

[6:24:49] very specific for two acres and we had to go back and change it.

[6:24:53] But at the time it got zoned, the market

[6:24:55] had shifted We're asking for here is are six zoning.

[6:24:59] You have a plan for six units, an anchor.

[6:25:01] We're asking for your zoning ordinance

[6:25:03] that accommodates that density.

[6:25:05] The regulations about what gets built,

[6:25:07] the setbacks and those things are within those codes already.

[6:25:10] And we think they're appropriate What

[6:25:12] we've done here and the neighbors,

[6:25:14] we've got this ten foot buffer zone

[6:25:16] It has plantings or preservation of trees,

[6:25:19] and we've added additional setback on this side

[6:25:22] because these particular dwellings are quite

[6:25:24] close to the property line.

[6:25:26] I'll go with that at a moment.

[6:25:27] But so these are the critical elements for the 11 units here

[6:25:31] that came out of an earlier concept.

[6:25:33] I think we've maybe had 14 units at one time on North Side

[6:25:37] and it was desire to see those split more evenly.

[6:25:39] So 18 and half is 99.

[6:25:41] So we want a little bit of flexibility.

[6:25:43] And that was the original 11 and 11.

[6:25:45] So we can put those numbers there.

[6:25:46] We want to split it like the Planning Commission asked,

[6:25:48] but we also need to leave ourselves all flexibility

[6:25:52] And the real issue about, you know, the density

[6:25:56] is really that the size of the house, right?

[6:25:58] If we have a buildable zone, as you see here, right on the north

[6:26:01] side and you put townhomes here because it's six townhomes here,

[6:26:05] we could fit three large houses there

[6:26:07] it wouldn't really change the building, massing

[6:26:10] or how close they were to the neighbors

[6:26:12] to change the housing type.

[6:26:13] Basically.

[6:26:14] So this allows the housing type to have flexibility.

[6:26:17] But really speaks to the issues that are brought up,

[6:26:20] which is what's the relationship of these buildings

[6:26:22] to each other Here's the plan.

[6:26:26] The concept planners.

[6:26:27] I go back to the questions on this.

[6:26:29] If we need to go on, but this is not proffered.

[6:26:32] This is for illustration of what might be,

[6:26:34] but we are not guaranteeing things

[6:26:36] on this plan This is kind of fascinating.

[6:26:40] This is the site plan for Liberty Hall.

[6:26:43] They actually have a reduced by neighborhood model, a 15 foot

[6:26:46] building setback for us So we standard have a 20 foot setback.

[6:26:51] We've actually offered 25ft.

[6:26:53] So this developer got five feet of extra land to build houses.

[6:26:57] We've lost Five feet of land and accommodation

[6:26:59] of those residents who lived there.

[6:27:01] That's the reason the structure is being so close.

[6:27:06] Lastly interesting tidbit here.

[6:27:08] So we have access to historical maps from if I

[6:27:12] had Zoom with them to see.

[6:27:13] And if you zoom this out, it was just farmland here

[6:27:17] because this is 1957, this house here

[6:27:19] is the one that was recently taken down when, you know,

[6:27:21] all incomes are right through here 330 is right here.

[6:27:25] That's what was here in 1957, 1980.

[6:27:30] The House that we're retaining is here

[6:27:34] That's the other house there.

[6:27:35] The access actually this way to a private road, some kind 1990.

[6:27:41] You'll see here there was a structure here.

[6:27:44] These houses.

[6:27:45] And so this is actually a redevelopment

[6:27:48] This area is essentially was no environmental features here.

[6:27:50] There's nothing here because it was,

[6:27:52] in fact the original development area.

[6:27:56] And then it was developed around the subdivisions

[6:27:58] that you see around it.

[6:27:59] So this is a redo.

[6:28:01] All of these we're trying to use the Kern County ordinance This

[6:28:04] is the plan to have to vote on tonight

[6:28:08] And we think this meets all the requirements are applicable.

[6:28:11] Happy to answer any further questions,

[6:28:12] you will have about this.

[6:28:14] All right.

[6:28:15] Thank you, Justin.

[6:28:16] Questions for the applicant supervisor malik.

[6:28:19] OK, Let's see Some of you have mentioned the 20% affordability.

[6:28:29] How does the application address the long term Affordable

[6:28:34] Because there will be people who get in

[6:28:36] to purchase by the skin of their teeth financially

[6:28:39] and then the assessor means for hold up

[6:28:43] holding all of the requirements for all the private features

[6:28:45] that you've designed into this are

[6:28:47] going to be a burden for those families going forward.

[6:28:50] How does how do you approach that question?

[6:28:55] Well, no matter where I think you go in our county,

[6:28:57] you're going to have stormwater and road maintenance cost.

[6:29:00] I think it's going to be baked in.

[6:29:01] Someone everywhere that the for profit affordability

[6:29:04] is the problem, right?

[6:29:05] It's the housing.

[6:29:06] Our moral standard.

[6:29:07] There is an argument for trying to reduce, you know,

[6:29:10] what these costs may be.

[6:29:12] And I don't know when the rent.

[6:29:14] So in a rental environment, the rental units right the landlord

[6:29:18] pays the cost, the rent is fixed.

[6:29:20] So the rental environment, you can't even

[6:29:23] unless I have to incur expenses, repairing a road

[6:29:25] or fixing a pipe, I can't charge more.

[6:29:27] Rent and housing out more allows me.

[6:29:29] So in that scenario there would be

[6:29:31] no cost passed on I don't know.

[6:29:34] I guess if the scenario where I buy in my,

[6:29:36] you know, subsidized housing price, I buy my house.

[6:29:39] And over the years, the HOA dues increase.

[6:29:41] I think that probably is a cost added to me

[6:29:44] but I don't think it's a cost at all unique to the site.

[6:29:46] This is going to be a cost in any practically any development

[6:29:49] to provide affordable housing types.

[6:29:51] Is there going to be townhomes?

[6:29:52] And they're all built on private streets.

[6:29:54] So I think that's a thing to think about,

[6:29:57] but not unique to the site.

[6:30:00] Thank you.

[6:30:01] So for now, Supervisor Duncan I have no questions.

[6:30:06] Supervisor Pruitt I actually don't

[6:30:09] think I have further questions.

[6:30:10] Thank you.

[6:30:11] Supervisor Missile thanks.

[6:30:14] You alluded at the beginning of your presentation.

[6:30:16] Maybe touched on this or you said

[6:30:18] you're going to come back to that in the future.

[6:30:20] And that is the adjacent setback.

[6:30:22] Can you talk a little bit more about that please?

[6:30:26] Sure.

[6:30:26] And so it's interesting here actually, to go back to our plan

[6:30:30] here.

[6:30:31] So we have property on this side here next to Liberty Hall.

[6:30:34] This houses here.

[6:30:34] It's 25 foot setback.

[6:30:36] The standard is 24.

[6:30:38] Pretty much every county zoning district like this.

[6:30:41] The one the state and the zoning was approved by the board

[6:30:44] because I think maybe probably before all you all were here,

[6:30:47] I think there was a 15 foot proffered setback here.

[6:30:52] So you can ask in a neighborhood model three, reduce setback.

[6:30:56] So essentially, part of the reason

[6:30:57] these houses are close to the neighbors and the planning

[6:31:00] commission brought this up is it feels

[6:31:02] like it's tight is because there was a special disposition

[6:31:05] to give them an extra five feet, which

[6:31:07] not if you bought those houses, it wasn't their doing for

[6:31:09] say Right.

[6:31:10] But the developer of that project gained more sellable.

[6:31:13] Real estate for building larger houses based on that.

[6:31:16] So we simply said, we don't like, we have the room,

[6:31:19] we'll give up that five feet on our side

[6:31:21] to keep that standard setback house to house.

[6:31:24] That would have been if they had their 20 foot Got it.

[6:31:30] OK.

[6:31:31] Thank you.

[6:31:31] That makes sense.

[6:31:32] Can you go back to your drawing please?

[6:31:34] Yeah.

[6:31:35] There.

[6:31:37] We've talked a lot about both tonight

[6:31:40] and with neighbors and together with the applicant the call

[6:31:46] it carrying capacity of that northern area

[6:31:49] feels it feels tight.

[6:31:50] Right.

[6:31:51] And so how many units are there?

[6:31:53] One, two, three, Four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten,

[6:31:57] 11, ten, 11.

[6:31:58] There Then you mentioned 9 and 9.

[6:32:01] And I know you want flexibility.

[6:32:02] And I get that Is there any flexibility

[6:32:07] on that northern development area

[6:32:09] to reduce from what you're showing here below nine

[6:32:16] for below 11?

[6:32:20] What's your what was your thought process around that?

[6:32:22] Just that's just one of the big areas to discuss.

[6:32:25] Well, I think I think I guess that to answer

[6:32:28] that sort of a matter of what's the concern?

[6:32:30] Because if it's really if it's the spatial distance.

[6:32:33] Right.

[6:32:33] If I if I simply if I said, you know what,

[6:32:36] I'm going to make these guys 40 foot wide triplexes right.

[6:32:40] 1 to 3 units.

[6:32:42] I've lost three units right there.

[6:32:43] I'm down to eight.

[6:32:44] I don't think that's materially different than the townhomes.

[6:32:48] Essentially And so that's really the Planning Commission

[6:32:51] talked about that the neighbors have talked about that.

[6:32:53] And my response was, well here's I'm

[6:32:57] proffering right and proper in these buffer zones

[6:33:00] and increased setback.

[6:33:01] So no matter what gets built here,

[6:33:03] we're trying to be respectful of that space, even

[6:33:05] though normally residential, residential, that would not

[6:33:08] be required.

[6:33:09] We don't know what's going to get built there.

[6:33:11] Exactly, but we know that whatever

[6:33:13] it is, the setback in my mind is more important than, let's say,

[6:33:18] how many people live there from the neighbors standpoint,

[6:33:21] I think from maybe the county standpoint, argue

[6:33:23] more people living there is better

[6:33:26] We should point to higher density.

[6:33:27] We just don't know which side of the road

[6:33:29] that ends up on right this moment.

[6:33:30] OK Fair enough.

[6:33:32] Understood.

[6:33:32] Right there.

[6:33:33] We have a ten foot buffer zone between 330,

[6:33:37] your adjoining property boundary.

[6:33:38] So why not 25?

[6:33:40] There ?

[6:33:42] Well, as far as a building setback, yeah.

[6:33:45] Oh, that would be a pretty substantial side setback.

[6:33:49] The side setbacks, five feet currently.

[6:33:51] So we've doubled it.

[6:33:52] You have the rear setback of 25.

[6:33:55] Right.

[6:33:55] The rear setback is correct.

[6:33:57] So we use the back of 25 on this side.

[6:34:00] You're calling that your side yard?

[6:34:02] This is the side yard.

[6:34:04] Yes.

[6:34:04] That's orientation here.

[6:34:06] If the lots were revised per the you

[6:34:08] know, the ordinance to say face this forward away from this.

[6:34:12] And this was their backyard.

[6:34:13] The ordinance would require a 20 foot rear setback.

[6:34:16] So there is a layout change with the back of those units faced

[6:34:20] 330 a 20 foot setback would be required and my ten foot buffer,

[6:34:24] but we wouldn't be able to hold a ten foot rear.

[6:34:28] And we have to follow the ordinance, an ordinance.

[6:34:31] So you voluntarily went from 20 foot rear setback to 25 foot

[6:34:34] roost that back correct on the appetite

[6:34:36] increase the ten foot buffer zone on the side yard

[6:34:39] whereas it becomes a point of is that a reasonable.

[6:34:42] You know request for density is particularly in side

[6:34:45] the side of the same.

[6:34:47] There's ordinance would not call for that kind of stuff

[6:34:50] are normal.

[6:34:51] Yes i feel like we've come up with a reasonable solution

[6:34:55] here that preserves possible easy

[6:34:57] to provide infill housing for people

[6:34:58] and provide some respectful buffers to our neighbors Got it.

[6:35:03] Okay I think well, I'll just ask.

[6:35:13] So we've talked about easements, access easements

[6:35:16] Do you see any yellow flags, any concerns

[6:35:19] with being able to access as you've drawn on these plans?

[6:35:22] No, no.

[6:35:23] And just a few things to dig out clarify.

[6:35:26] So that here we have a platted, one recorded access easement

[6:35:30] through here.

[6:35:31] There's an access easement.

[6:35:32] As I said, this is the back of the north side.

[6:35:35] There's really no lane here is an existing

[6:35:39] road serving three units.

[6:35:41] And that is why you see in our concept here,

[6:35:44] I think no matter what happens, only this house this house.

[6:35:48] And this house remain on the windy Knoll road

[6:35:51] because this is like a nonconforming road basically.

[6:35:53] So there are a lot of lots that use this currently We don't we

[6:35:58] would have to upgrade that is mentioned to use it.

[6:36:01] And there may be other easement issues there.

[6:36:03] So the intention is for that to simply has always

[6:36:04] served three houses and it will remain

[6:36:06] to serve three houses over here we

[6:36:09] have 35 or so feet of frontage along the public road.

[6:36:13] So we can get a private road off that we

[6:36:17] would say we need to continue the sidewalk.

[6:36:18] You know, take this whole triangle.

[6:36:20] It's more complicated and nothing we're doing here

[6:36:23] prohibits a later time.

[6:36:25] My client working a deal with those neighbors

[6:36:27] and acquiring a triangle and building that right.

[6:36:29] We're setting the zoning.

[6:36:30] We could always come back and put a public street here,

[6:36:33] if that can be worked out.

[6:36:35] So there's not a proper private street.

[6:36:38] It's a zoning proffer.

[6:36:41] And the buffers we could if a triangle is required,

[6:36:44] a public street could be built, I believe.

[6:36:46] So there's a veto.

[6:36:47] I would have to prove it.

[6:36:48] Obviously So if I'm hearing you correctly

[6:36:53] I may not be the connection, the road,

[6:36:56] the pathway that runs through there Here.

[6:36:59] No, sorry.

[6:37:00] The portion of the path.

[6:37:01] Oh, sorry.

[6:37:01] Yes.

[6:37:02] It looks like a dead end on the right at the property line.

[6:37:06] That's right.

[6:37:07] Yes.

[6:37:07] That's so that is the edge obviously, of our property line

[6:37:12] right there.

[6:37:13] Just triangle.

[6:37:14] So shared use path touches the public right

[6:37:16] of way at column drive.

[6:37:18] So if you were coming to another sidewalk

[6:37:21] there without having to acquire the access correct.

[6:37:25] Okay.

[6:37:28] And then the last question.

[6:37:29] I know tree preservation has come up.

[6:37:30] We've got an arborist report, etc., etc..

[6:37:33] There's concern about where that public page path, a foot piece,

[6:37:37] paved path goes through Is there the possibility

[6:37:43] of retaining that as green space,

[6:37:45] keeping that tree buffer there and moving

[6:37:47] that shared path closer in?

[6:37:49] Well, the idea of this.

[6:37:52] And if you've been out there and you have a nice land

[6:37:55] is really flat right here.

[6:37:57] I agree So what I liked about this

[6:37:59] was that I could put the path in amongst those trees

[6:38:02] and have the green space, the path within it,

[6:38:04] so that the path is neither in the side yard of this house

[6:38:08] or the side yard of the house.

[6:38:10] That's the origin of this design.

[6:38:11] So would you be willing to create a conservation

[6:38:13] plan for the trees that are in there?

[6:38:15] Well, if we decide to save.

[6:38:17] And we have to, that's an ordinance requirement.

[6:38:19] We'd have we'd have to do that.

[6:38:21] At this moment, we have to go survey the trees,

[6:38:23] figure out new way of keeping what could be done around them,

[6:38:26] etc..

[6:38:28] I think we feel like what we have.

[6:38:31] We can create a path.

[6:38:32] We'll save some trees, even mine.

[6:38:34] We're financially motivated to save trees

[6:38:36] because we get a bonus canopy for those, right?

[6:38:39] The county says we build this.

[6:38:41] We have to provide an extra canopy for every tree

[6:38:44] we save we get a bonus of that.

[6:38:46] So we are we will do that if it makes sense.

[6:38:49] But some of the trees back in here

[6:38:50] are our trees and the Bradford pear in the middle.

[6:38:52] Some of these are good trees.

[6:38:53] Some of them are ones that are kind of weedy that

[6:38:55] will maybe be better off.

[6:38:57] Planted a new.

[6:38:57] There are some beautiful trees in there, though.

[6:38:59] Oh, yeah OK.

[6:39:03] Thank you.

[6:39:04] That's all.

[6:39:05] Supervisor office for currently So I understand that.

[6:39:09] Wendy.

[6:39:10] No Wendy.

[6:39:11] Noel can only serve us because it's a private street.

[6:39:15] Private road.

[6:39:15] Right.

[6:39:16] Can only service three homes.

[6:39:17] Correct?

[6:39:18] That's right, yes.

[6:39:20] So it is that the reason why you only have three homes on colony

[6:39:24] Drive?

[6:39:25] Because that private street could also

[6:39:28] only access three roads.

[6:39:30] This is actually some as five as a property line here

[6:39:33] in the Middle.

[6:39:33] So there's two kind of duplexes here and a single family here.

[6:39:36] So this current concept, again, just a concept, but the thought

[6:39:39] is we have five here to have been

[6:39:42] historically here, plus a 330.

[6:39:45] Make make three in total on wendy Nolan.

[6:39:49] Okay.

[6:39:49] So on the private street, that would be three buildings.

[6:39:53] It could be three buildings.

[6:39:54] Is it again, this is laid out.

[6:39:56] This is not proffered, but that was

[6:39:58] a concept that's an idea that could come to fruition.

[6:40:01] OK.

[6:40:02] And once again you could put more homes in there.

[6:40:06] If you were able to build an actual public street

[6:40:10] and potentially in a private street.

[6:40:12] Also, we have to ask for certain waivers and things like that.

[6:40:14] That's a site plan item that I think

[6:40:16] have said they can't make a judgment on that until I

[6:40:19] show them some very specific engineering on what

[6:40:21] that looks like.

[6:40:22] And that's a step back to the site plan level.

[6:40:24] So we will be back to the planning Commission,

[6:40:27] all the staff with various waiver requests

[6:40:29] if needed, to meet those criteria and the piping

[6:40:33] that you have, the stormwater inlet,

[6:40:35] that's going to be a pipe going from that point.

[6:40:39] All the way down to the storm water pond, correct?

[6:40:42] Yeah, something like that will be

[6:40:43] built to keep drainage that direction.

[6:40:45] I asked that because it's going right through the amenities

[6:40:48] underneath that.

[6:40:49] You never know.

[6:40:50] Was there.

[6:40:51] OK, that's good to know.

[6:40:52] And the fact that you have that path that goes along,

[6:40:56] that connects to Colony Drive and you can also go out,

[6:41:01] I guess once the Eastern Avenue is built out,

[6:41:05] then you could go that way.

[6:41:06] Or you can go to once again, repeating myself out colony

[6:41:10] drive down to where all the melodies are, correct?

[6:41:14] That's right Okay.

[6:41:15] Thank you.

[6:41:16] No other questions and just for my own understanding

[6:41:20] just in the ten foot buffer zone and the 25 year setback,

[6:41:24] you don't combine those.

[6:41:25] The 25 is from the property, plant, not from the buffer.

[6:41:29] That's correct So it's not 35.

[6:41:31] It's a total of 25.

[6:41:32] Yes.

[6:41:33] All right Yeah.

[6:41:41] All right.

[6:41:41] I think I'm.

[6:41:42] Thank you.

[6:41:43] Any other questions for the applicant before?

[6:41:45] I guess only one of what has been

[6:41:47] done to try to solve the pinch point

[6:41:49] question as far as addressing the neighbors

[6:41:52] or making requests or making offers or any kind of discussion

[6:41:56] I know that.

[6:41:56] So the change in has spoken with those neighbors quite a lot.

[6:42:00] I have not been involved with that discussion,

[6:42:03] so I can't say what the specifics are

[6:42:07] of that would probably, again be something

[6:42:12] I mean, in a site plan, we would like to have that triangle.

[6:42:15] If they don't want to part with it, that's their business.

[6:42:18] It's their conversations broke down a year ago To put it

[6:42:22] simply, I think that there's been no contact negotiations

[6:42:26] broke down a year ago as well.

[6:42:28] So maybe the on the but once the decision tonight is made,

[6:42:33] then we typically do basically the others

[6:42:37] make the choices going forward.

[6:42:38] Staff and the applicant make the choices after tonight.

[6:42:41] So that's why I'm trying to get as much information as possible.

[6:42:45] All right Thank you.

[6:42:46] I'll stop there.

[6:42:48] All right.

[6:42:48] Thank you, Justin.

[6:42:49] We're ready to go to our public speakers.

[6:42:52] Great.

[6:42:52] Thank you.

[6:42:53] We'll begin with Bill O'Malley and Nadia Anderson

[6:42:57] is on deck and good evening.

[6:43:10] And O'Malley.

[6:43:11] President the Crows, a community associate Asian.

[6:43:15] The issue before you tonight is not

[6:43:17] whether this board has the authority

[6:43:19] to disagree with the Planning commission.

[6:43:21] Of course it does.

[6:43:22] The question is, what is materially

[6:43:25] changed after a 5 to 1 recommendation of denial

[6:43:28] that warrants a completely different land use conclusion

[6:43:32] Remember, this applicant was already

[6:43:33] afforded a deferral, an opportunity to redesign.

[6:43:36] When did all the Planning Commission clearly

[6:43:39] tried to find a path to Yes.

[6:43:41] But after reviewing the revised proposal, it still voted 5 to 1

[6:43:44] to recommend denial.

[6:43:46] It concerns its concerns included compatibility

[6:43:50] transition to existing homes, private property

[6:43:53] issues and particularly the concentration of density

[6:43:56] on the northern portion of this difficult site

[6:43:59] So what changed after the vote will fairly

[6:44:02] acknowledge some mitigation, additional landscaping,

[6:44:05] a ten ten foot plan planted buffer.

[6:44:08] But mitigation was not a redesign.

[6:44:10] On May 13th, the North buildings aren't allowed 11 units tonight.

[6:44:15] It still allows 11 units.

[6:44:17] That matters because one of the clearest messages

[6:44:19] from that body, the planning Commission,

[6:44:22] shifts some of the density south.

[6:44:24] That didn't happen.

[6:44:26] And that raises a reasonable question.

[6:44:28] If these posts denial changes represent a better design,

[6:44:32] why wasn't the design result ?

[6:44:35] Did the design return, then to the Planning Commission ?

[6:44:39] This is not an argument against infill townhomes.

[6:44:42] Affordable housing.

[6:44:43] We recognize those public policy goals.

[6:44:47] This is an argument for good site design.

[6:44:49] We know it is an unusual collection of parcels.

[6:44:52] It's weird because of its shape slope, the existing residence

[6:44:56] surrounded by the proposal, separate vehicular access

[6:45:01] points to development clusters being treated

[6:45:05] as a cohesive neighborhood.

[6:45:07] Candidly, what makes us proposal.

[6:45:09] So unusual It just doesn't fit together.

[6:45:12] There's a better approach.

[6:45:14] Reduce the northern density and challenge the developer

[6:45:17] to design the two areas around the physical realities

[6:45:20] of the property.

[6:45:22] Hopefully to different vote is not land use strategy mitigation

[6:45:26] around the edges.

[6:45:27] It's not the same thing as fixing the design.

[6:45:30] A 5 to 1 planning Commission recommendation

[6:45:32] should not be overturned lightly on the central condition that

[6:45:36] produced that recommendation remains unchanged Tonight.

[6:45:40] You have an opportunity to demonstrate good planning

[6:45:44] means giving the communities a legitimate concern

[6:45:47] to the same serious consideration as the applicant.

[6:45:51] We ask you today This is here May at a minimum,

[6:45:55] defer it and required applicant to return with a better design.

[6:46:00] These are good people.

[6:46:02] Please stop with word the developer

[6:46:04] who is not done the necessary work Do the right thing, please.

[6:46:09] Thank you.

[6:46:10] Thank you.

[6:46:11] Thank you.

[6:46:12] Not Anderson and Julianne Price is on deck Good evening,

[6:46:30] members of the board.

[6:46:31] I stand before you tonight generally confused.

[6:46:34] And I don't know how each of you intends to vote,

[6:46:37] but I'm baffled why a project that's fundamentally

[6:46:39] flow what has been allowed to advance this far in the process.

[6:46:43] Let me be clear.

[6:46:44] I commend the applicant for attempting

[6:46:46] to address a community's affordable housing shortage.

[6:46:49] Affordable housing is a critical need across Albemarle county

[6:46:53] and efforts to create accessible housing solutions deserve

[6:46:56] genuine recognition.

[6:46:58] However, good intentions do not change the law of physics,

[6:47:01] planning policy or even that high density rezoning

[6:47:04] must be paired with appropriate land

[6:47:06] and viable infrastructure in the site

[6:47:08] is simply the wrong location.

[6:47:10] This is not in alignment with the adopted Closing Master plan,

[6:47:14] nor does it fit the comprehensive principles

[6:47:16] of the 1844 granting a spot zoning increase here violates

[6:47:20] the very long range planning documents.

[6:47:23] Our community spent years developing.

[6:47:26] And for legal follow up to a question under Virginia land use

[6:47:29] law and Albemarle County Procedure,

[6:47:31] an unapproved application filed before 8044 was adopted

[6:47:35] holds no legal grandfathered rights or entitlement.

[6:47:38] The Planning Commission evaluated this project.

[6:47:41] And I hope that you go back to those comments

[6:47:44] and they voted to deny it, not once,

[6:47:47] twice overriding a decisive evidence based denial

[6:47:50] undermines public trust and treats the appointed planning

[6:47:53] oversight as an extendable hurdle rather than

[6:47:55] an essential safeguard.

[6:47:58] Furthermore, packaging a 20% affordable housing

[6:48:01] alongside private roads and private stormwater manage

[6:48:04] is deeply irresponsible.

[6:48:06] Albemarle County oversees well over a thousand private

[6:48:09] stormwater facility is county data shows that roughly upwards

[6:48:13] of 60% of HOA manage basins suffer from an active

[6:48:17] maintenance deficiencies and failures Volunteer HOA boards

[6:48:21] such as myself don't know the extent of the burden they need

[6:48:24] to cover by fronting upwards of 30 to $100,000 in capital

[6:48:29] reserves needed for major dredging and structural repairs.

[6:48:33] So in future, residents and small affordable development

[6:48:36] with complex private drainage systems and road maintenance

[6:48:39] sets, both these homeowners and downstream neighbors up

[6:48:42] for systemic failure The area around liberty Hall hasn't been

[6:48:47] spoken a little more frequently tonight, which I appreciate,

[6:48:50] but it struggles with saturated ground and overwhelming drainage

[6:48:54] during routine storms Even with my 15ft of setback,

[6:48:57] the water continues to be a problem.

[6:49:00] And those board members who came out to our community, thank you.

[6:49:03] You understand the cost of fixing

[6:49:05] such an expensive mistake.

[6:49:06] There are complete replacing it.

[6:49:08] This needed and clay loam soils here have notoriously

[6:49:12] been have are notoriously have poor percolation crushing

[6:49:16] high density development directly upstream

[6:49:19] or dumped still and unmanageable runoff volume into an already

[6:49:23] fragile corridor.

[6:49:24] And my very true fear is that stripping this canopy

[6:49:27] and replacing absorbing crown.

[6:49:30] But these surfaces will surely accelerate and enough.

[6:49:34] Thank you.

[6:49:35] Thank you.

[6:49:36] Thank you, Jillian price up next and Mark Esplin

[6:49:40] is on deck OK, Good evening.

[6:49:47] Thank you.

[6:49:48] My name is Julianne price.

[6:49:49] I'm in the Whitehall district.

[6:49:50] And I live with my family at 3:30.

[6:49:52] Wendy Nolan the center of the sea.

[6:49:54] I had initially planned to talk about our concerns

[6:49:56] and objections regarding the easement

[6:49:58] and whether or not we feel like Mr. or the applicant

[6:50:00] is able to build this path across that at this point

[6:50:04] we have felt like we had to retain counsel.

[6:50:05] So we have continued concerns, but I will leave those to him.

[6:50:11] I want to thank all of you and the counties staff and all

[6:50:14] the members of our community.

[6:50:15] There's so many people here for taking all the time

[6:50:17] to examine this proposal We know that what remains

[6:50:20] within the Crozet growth area is largely

[6:50:22] other unusual parcels like Windy Knoll,

[6:50:24] little bits of former farmland and family subdivisions that

[6:50:27] have not yet been sold off or up zoned,

[6:50:30] I believe that the board has an opportunity tonight

[6:50:32] to set the tone for how current residents

[6:50:34] within and around infill parcels are treated.

[6:50:37] You can reinforce that we are simply

[6:50:39] an obstacle to the developer's goal of maximum allowable units

[6:50:42] and that our existence is.

[6:50:43] But an annoyance Or you can echo the values that the Planning

[6:50:46] Commission and the spirit of the master

[6:50:48] plan that existing community members are partners

[6:50:51] whose lived experience and knowledge of their neighborhoods

[6:50:53] can inform responsible growth So many members of our community

[6:50:57] have repeatedly come together in meaningfully

[6:50:59] contribute to raise an objection to this plan Some of those

[6:51:03] have been addressed.

[6:51:04] Many have not.

[6:51:05] Many of our neighbors do not have the same privilege

[6:51:08] and opportunities for engagement that we

[6:51:10] have had for a wide variety of reasons language, health, money.

[6:51:14] I really worry about the next family

[6:51:16] that sits in the middle of the next infill development.

[6:51:18] Elmore County and who does not have the resources or the time

[6:51:22] or the ability to contest a plan that prioritizes quantity

[6:51:25] over function.

[6:51:26] I urge you to be clear in your evaluation tonight

[6:51:29] that the county expects respectful, reasonable design

[6:51:32] for cohesive neighborhoods that function in reality and not just

[6:51:35] on paper, and that the burden of do

[6:51:37] diligence and negotiations should rest on the applicant,

[6:51:40] not on the abutting residents.

[6:51:42] That is not been the case here.

[6:51:44] And this applicant has had enough chances to get it right.

[6:51:46] Since he began talking with the county

[6:51:48] about rezoning in March of 2025.

[6:51:50] This is the sixth official version

[6:51:52] for a density of R six or higher.

[6:51:54] The way to address this problem and all the problems

[6:51:57] with this design and its negative implications

[6:51:59] for the environment and the people

[6:52:00] who live around this property is to reduce the number of units

[6:52:03] to a level that is a proper effort for this land

[6:52:06] and its unique constraints.

[6:52:08] Maybe that involves reversing the northern curve.

[6:52:10] Someone from the southern parcel.

[6:52:11] So we reduce the infrastructure burden on future residents

[6:52:14] and we stop pretending that a C shaped sloped parcel

[6:52:17] with our property in the middle and three separate access

[6:52:19] points from three different areas

[6:52:21] is actually a neighborhood There are the real potential

[6:52:27] and community support here for an

[6:52:29] for designation with up to 9 or 10 dwelling units in this area.

[6:52:33] We are ready to welcome your neighbors.

[6:52:35] I'm ready for the event.

[6:52:36] This trees next to you to be cut down

[6:52:38] for that site to be maintained but please

[6:52:40] deny the CMA so that we can move on

[6:52:43] and work towards a reasonable, realistic and respectful plan

[6:52:46] that will serve all of us.

[6:52:49] Mark esplin and Darren Price's on deck Good evening.

[6:53:01] My name is Mark Esplin.

[6:53:03] I live in quarry Farm on Little Fox Lane.

[6:53:06] I submitted a counterproposal to the committee.

[6:53:07] I'm sorry that I created so much confusion.

[6:53:09] That was not my intent The reason I wanted to submit this

[6:53:13] is that is something that we as neighbors believe

[6:53:15] could be more appropriate and really blends

[6:53:18] for our one quarry farm in the R six Liberty Hall.

[6:53:21] That is around the area.

[6:53:24] I believe this is something that would be closer

[6:53:26] to like an R3R4 zoning and also looks like our state.

[6:53:30] If you and the r three zoning does comply with the Cruzan

[6:53:36] master plan, it looked to us that the easement

[6:53:39] needed for the Eastern Avenue construction extended deeper

[6:53:41] into the area than what the applicant chose.

[6:53:44] And this is according to the county's own exhibits on Eastern

[6:53:47] Avenue So while the proposal showed and left you

[6:53:51] at least that area open because we didn't want

[6:53:53] to add infrastructure or amenities that would be impacted

[6:53:56] by the construction.

[6:53:57] And without further clarification on how large

[6:53:59] that easement is, maybe there could be a path there maybe

[6:54:03] that due to timing of be best to just have the two parcels

[6:54:06] developed separately.

[6:54:08] The sketch that I provided you was done by a lay person,

[6:54:11] like I'm a chemical engineer.

[6:54:12] My forte is in vaccine purification

[6:54:14] and protein separation.

[6:54:16] So this is something, not something

[6:54:18] that I do on a daily basis And I understand

[6:54:21] that there would need to be adjustments

[6:54:22] and that this is just a talking point

[6:54:25] But nonetheless, this layout has a lot of benefits

[6:54:27] that the neighborhood and talking

[6:54:29] with the rest of our neighbors agree

[6:54:31] that would be very beneficial.

[6:54:33] Namely, it would provide opportunity

[6:54:35] to preserve the mature trees that are within the area.

[6:54:39] It could reduce the stormwater runoff

[6:54:41] because you have less permeable surfaces and greater green space

[6:54:44] with the trees It provides more opportunity for setback

[6:54:47] and Bunbury with the existing neighbors.

[6:54:49] It would give us some more green space

[6:54:52] for residents and children.

[6:54:53] There will be lots of children in the area The buses are

[6:54:57] already full.

[6:54:57] That's great.

[6:54:58] The more children, the merrier.

[6:54:59] My kids can play with them and they

[6:55:01] will be less light and noise and distract disruption

[6:55:04] to the neighbors.

[6:55:04] Fewer parking constraints, reduce traffic

[6:55:07] to fine road, greater privacy for Patriot Way.

[6:55:11] So in that proposal there would just be one unit.

[6:55:13] They would be facing Patriot way instead of the six

[6:55:15] and it would decrease the likelihood of foot traffic

[6:55:18] across existing property.

[6:55:19] So this viewpoint is something that could be done.

[6:55:22] And there could be a transition from the quarry farm

[6:55:24] neighborhood to the library, whole neighborhood.

[6:55:26] It would enable the considerations

[6:55:27] of difficulty issues that might be

[6:55:28] present in the current design.

[6:55:30] Again, we're all for having infill.

[6:55:31] We understand the need for growth and welcome new neighbors

[6:55:34] when they do arrive.

[6:55:36] We we're all in favor of having more housing

[6:55:38] and having affordable housing in the area and the design

[6:55:41] that I submitted has affordable units

[6:55:43] and mixed use of townhomes, duplexes and single family

[6:55:46] homes.

[6:55:47] We believe that this is something

[6:55:48] that the neighborhood would indeed support

[6:55:50] and that we are more than welcoming for something

[6:55:53] along this nature.

[6:55:55] Thank you very much.

[6:55:56] Thank you.

[6:55:57] Thank you.

[6:55:58] Taryn Price and Travis Britton is on deck

[6:56:02] to turn price I live at 331.

[6:56:09] You know, Julianne, everyone's made a great point I largely

[6:56:14] agree with all of them.

[6:56:15] And I don't have a 3 minute prepared speech

[6:56:17] that I have time.

[6:56:18] I have full time job.

[6:56:19] And as Mark does as well, I mostly just

[6:56:23] wanted you to know i, I haven't slept well

[6:56:27] in three days at least.

[6:56:28] I hardly even i don't know if I can make it

[6:56:32] through this talk It makes you feel physically ill to be here

[6:56:39] to defend this again We spent a lot of time talking

[6:56:43] about the extra five feet on each side.

[6:56:47] I'm staring at the picture now and I

[6:56:51] think that's largely because there are no significant changes

[6:56:54] to the previous plan that the Planning Commission already

[6:56:56] denied us 5 to 1.

[6:56:57] It wasn't close.

[6:56:59] It wasn't like it almost passed its 5 to 1.

[6:57:02] The main changes are these tiny incremental things

[6:57:04] in that the expression that comes to mind.

[6:57:06] I don't mean to be ungrateful, but it's

[6:57:07] like it's putting lipstick on a pig.

[6:57:10] It's it's not a well-balanced plan.

[6:57:12] I'm starting to feel, frankly, kind of bullish

[6:57:15] about that corner of our land that gives us

[6:57:19] access to Liberty Hall.

[6:57:20] I don't know what's going to happen there,

[6:57:22] and I guarantee nothing's off.

[6:57:23] You approve this, approve it knowing

[6:57:25] that we don't know what's going to happen with that I think it's

[6:57:28] interesting that the Planning Commission repeatedly emphasized

[6:57:31] that there should be community engagement from the applicant.

[6:57:35] I have seen zero evidence of that,

[6:57:37] and instead, I feel like it's our job.

[6:57:39] Like Mark's making his own plan Why isn't my responsibility

[6:57:45] removed here from Hog Waller and our two bedroom house too cozy

[6:57:50] where I used to be a teacher because I love cozy

[6:57:53] and I love the community.

[6:57:55] And I love the neighbors that I've met through this process.

[6:57:58] But I never did.

[6:57:59] I imagine that I would have to look, defend my land.

[6:58:02] It feels like.

[6:58:03] And this like John Dutton, West What is that?

[6:58:06] What does that show?

[6:58:07] You know what I'm talking about it.

[6:58:10] 11 units like next to my house.

[6:58:12] Yes.

[6:58:13] I expected neighbors.

[6:58:14] I was very excited to have neighbors.

[6:58:15] One day.

[6:58:16] We call that the tennis playground because there's

[6:58:18] junk all over it.

[6:58:19] I'm excited to see it cleaned up and have neighbors.

[6:58:21] But like 11 units.

[6:58:22] Are you serious?

[6:58:23] These three acres aren't a buildable three acres

[6:58:26] and it doesn't match the neighborhood.

[6:58:27] And I understand the need for more housing.

[6:58:29] But this is an appropriate part of the master plan.

[6:58:32] Says this should match the existing neighborhood

[6:58:34] adds the community is telling you

[6:58:36] they want fewer houses there.

[6:58:38] Make it work with the land as it is.

[6:58:40] And if you've been there, you know how Soviet is.

[6:58:42] You can't build in that little middle part.

[6:58:44] That's why there's a retention pond I don't know what else

[6:58:48] to say, but I think I'm going to take a good nap after this.

[6:58:52] And I'm going to try not to throw up in my seat.

[6:58:54] And I hope that at the end of this.

[6:58:56] It feels like we were heard.

[6:58:59] Thank you.

[6:59:01] Thank you.

[6:59:01] Travis Britton and Steve Walsworth is on deck.

[6:59:06] All right.

[6:59:07] Good evening, Travis Brendon from law firm

[6:59:09] of Music Peeler and Garrett, I represent

[6:59:11] Julian Price who lives in 330.

[6:59:13] Most of the discussion has, I think,

[6:59:15] appropriately focused on the matters

[6:59:17] in front of the board purview.

[6:59:19] Stormwater is the density, the appropriate

[6:59:22] now is the rezoning, which is what's before the board.

[6:59:24] Tonight I want to raise three issues related

[6:59:27] to the proposed public path.

[6:59:30] The path there.

[6:59:32] I don't believe that's a shared use path because it's not

[6:59:35] ten feet, but regardless, these also concern the easement.

[6:59:39] I spoke with Mr. Herrick earlier today

[6:59:41] about the first thing that I'll bring up,

[6:59:43] namely the easement on Wendy.

[6:59:45] No, actually, let me see.

[6:59:46] I know.

[6:59:47] Yes, I can move this.

[6:59:48] OK.

[6:59:48] So the easement on Wendy, No land that crosses here,

[6:59:53] this being the Servian estate.

[6:59:56] If there is another easement granted, then we have a tourism.

[6:59:59] It's crossing at this point.

[7:00:01] Now you can burden an easement by an increase degree in use

[7:00:06] without necessarily causing an unreasonable burdening.

[7:00:10] But this would be a change in the type of use

[7:00:12] because we would then have vehicular traffic and pedestrian

[7:00:15] and bike traffic crossing paths at that point.

[7:00:18] Right there.

[7:00:19] Now, I think that there could be disagreement.

[7:00:22] Mr. Hart expressed the opinion that that would not

[7:00:25] be unreasonable Of course, what that means is

[7:00:28] that every trip in and out has to stop.

[7:00:31] And there's the potential of interaction

[7:00:32] And I think that's where the actual feel

[7:00:35] of the thing on the ground is going

[7:00:36] to make a difference because a pedestrian walking along here

[7:00:40] is not going to perceive that this is an actual roadway.

[7:00:42] It's I don't think it's hardly any wider than the proposed path

[7:00:46] itself.

[7:00:47] So the building would be on my client and the inhabitants

[7:00:51] of 330 to make sure that that they're looking out

[7:00:55] for pedestrians who probably are not aware of what this is So

[7:01:01] the second issue with regards to this that I want to bring up

[7:01:04] is the fact that there is a May 2016 property maintenance

[7:01:09] agreement that burdens the parties which at this point,

[7:01:15] there are two parties, the owners of these parcels

[7:01:17] and Harrington and my client here,

[7:01:19] and they are obligated to agree obligated to maintain

[7:01:24] this easement.

[7:01:25] But also, they must agree on no maintenance can be performed.

[7:01:28] Now if we add an additional unit here

[7:01:30] above what currently exists, then there's

[7:01:34] an obligation to maintain it.

[7:01:35] Yet it cannot be maintained unless all three parties agree.

[7:01:39] Now, if there a pothole or something

[7:01:40] that occurs at this point, there would

[7:01:42] be no incentive for these people who,

[7:01:44] by the agreement, which is recorded and part of the deed

[7:01:47] would be obligated to maintain that or share the costs equally

[7:01:51] Why would they approve that when their driveway is here?

[7:01:54] So that's a potential problem.

[7:01:56] But i think would constitute a burden and I'm out of time.

[7:01:59] And I was going to discuss this, but I'll just

[7:02:01] end by saying my client is open to negotiation

[7:02:04] with the developer and we hope to have that conversation open.

[7:02:06] Thank you.

[7:02:07] Thank you.

[7:02:09] Thank you.

[7:02:09] Steve Walls Worth and David track guards truck.

[7:02:15] It's thank you is on deck.

[7:02:19] Good evening supervisors I'm Steve Rose

[7:02:21] what i live in Curry farm for over 23 years now.

[7:02:25] First I want to thank the person supervisors that did come out

[7:02:29] and did a site visit with us that

[7:02:31] was very appreciated by everybody involved

[7:02:34] and it actually shows a representation

[7:02:37] of representative democracy in action.

[7:02:40] I think.

[7:02:40] So thank you.

[7:02:42] Second, you are in favor of more housing.

[7:02:46] We are in favor of affordable housing.

[7:02:49] We are not NIMBYs, as you can tell by everybody talking today,

[7:02:53] they're offering some kind of solution to everything.

[7:02:57] Now down to business as a matter of law.

[7:03:00] This is why this project is here in front of the board

[7:03:04] right now, because the Planning Commission voted

[7:03:06] to not recommend the six reso in a 5 to 1,

[7:03:11] and that's very telling.

[7:03:13] It wasn't a three to 3 or 4 to two.

[7:03:16] It was a 5 to 1.

[7:03:18] Very definitive.

[7:03:19] There was no changes since then.

[7:03:22] There is no changes of any substance from the planning

[7:03:25] commission to now.

[7:03:29] We should be looking at this.

[7:03:32] The use should be looking at a project that

[7:03:35] uses what we call a standard of excellence

[7:03:38] as it's laid out in the board, pursuing and achieving

[7:03:40] excellence in community action as we don't have that.

[7:03:46] But we have we have what do we have?

[7:03:49] We have a heavy financial burden that's

[7:03:51] going to be put on the HOA to maintain all the infrastructure

[7:03:54] that they're responsible for roads,

[7:03:56] driveways stormwater systems, paved and unpaved trails.

[7:04:02] This is especially detrimental to the affordable housing folks

[7:04:06] because now they're going to be faced with a still paid

[7:04:11] for the Affordable house after they've already bought it.

[7:04:15] Connectivity there is still always

[7:04:17] no real connectivity between the north

[7:04:20] end of the development and the south that connects context.

[7:04:24] There's still a context problem.

[7:04:27] The 11 units on the north they don't flow with the all one unit

[7:04:32] unit built in.

[7:04:34] Kori Farm and the model neighborhood

[7:04:37] built in the Liberty Hall It just about flow trees.

[7:04:41] There's 150 year old trees that are there.

[7:04:43] They're native to Virginia and they're

[7:04:46] just there's no plan to preserve those.

[7:04:49] And those were outlined in the Charlottesville area.

[7:04:52] Trees, stewards study, and they were

[7:04:55] adamant about trying to save those trees.

[7:04:58] The current master plan as it's laid out,

[7:05:01] is follows densities concerned.

[7:05:03] It says actual density as a singular tool does not

[7:05:07] necessarily promote affordable housing.

[7:05:10] There are other factors to consider but they are.

[7:05:13] So this is concerns not change since the Planning Commission

[7:05:18] vote.

[7:05:19] Yet here we are Thank you for.

[7:05:23] Thank you, David trekker Rich and Philip Wade on deck.

[7:05:31] Hello.

[7:05:32] Albemarle county board of supervisors How y'all doing?

[7:05:35] Good.

[7:05:35] Here's three minutes for everything

[7:05:36] you can just check out because, I mean,

[7:05:38] it is related because I'm in right hall, Crazy district,

[7:05:41] and I'm so I'm sorry.

[7:05:43] You just need to identify yourself.

[7:05:45] David Gregory So and I am, you know one race and try to wife,

[7:05:54] one race Orchard Acres which you know

[7:05:56] long history of development, you know,

[7:05:58] it was a neighborhood on King Lane

[7:06:01] and then got completely like just

[7:06:03] dumped like it's like a little mini city over there now,

[7:06:05] which is fine because we need houses

[7:06:07] and I'm not for against this, but these are the same.

[7:06:09] You can check out because I just want to actually just say

[7:06:12] like, thank you guys for your service to your community.

[7:06:15] And I know you know, things are, you know we run or anything,

[7:06:21] but thank you for you know, I know we're coming a long way.

[7:06:24] And I just from that corridor and pro smart development

[7:06:29] and pro neighborhoods getting together and fight

[7:06:32] for what they believe in.

[7:06:34] So just that's it.

[7:06:35] Just thank you guys for being here.

[7:06:37] You guys for being here developers

[7:06:38] for wanting to invest in the community

[7:06:41] even if the community may not be heads right now,

[7:06:44] but, you know, it's all would be good.

[7:06:47] So thank you.

[7:06:48] That's all I have to say.

[7:06:49] Thank you.

[7:06:50] Appreciate Philip Wade and I'm not even

[7:06:54] going to try that actually has a challenging name for a Beamer NG

[7:07:00] Liang.

[7:07:02] Exactly This is on deck.

[7:07:04] Good evening.

[7:07:05] Good evening.

[7:07:06] My name is Philip Wade and i am in the Whitehall district

[7:07:09] and I'm at 5340 Glenview Court right

[7:07:11] across the street from the proposed 11 units

[7:07:14] in the north up there.

[7:07:16] I did want to first address the master plan because that's

[7:07:20] been discussed a little bit when I bought my house this was not

[7:07:23] in the development area.

[7:07:24] So there has been a significant change from the original master

[7:07:27] plan.

[7:07:27] This was not in the development area that was down

[7:07:29] near Old Trail and now it has been

[7:07:32] changed, which was done right around Covid

[7:07:34] when people were, you know, unable to get out as much.

[7:07:37] And that's when it was changed And so, you know,

[7:07:41] when I bought my home.

[7:07:42] This was, you know, I see single family units everywhere.

[7:07:46] And, now you're talking about 11 units on one acre

[7:07:51] across the street from me.

[7:07:53] If they we're looking to do 11 acres, 11 units on one acre,

[7:07:57] you would most likely just say no.

[7:07:59] But they've bought, other parcels that are not buildable

[7:08:03] and now all of a sudden 11 units is okay there.

[7:08:05] That just doesn't make much sense to me.

[7:08:09] There has been no communique motion,

[7:08:10] despite the Planning Commission asking them to communicate

[7:08:13] with the neighbors.

[7:08:14] Have I have received no communication I didn't even

[7:08:16] recognize Justin when I saw him there

[7:08:20] because I didn't know who he was,

[7:08:22] because he's never talked to me before.

[7:08:24] And I'm right across the street The planning commission did

[7:08:28] ask for less units on the north side.

[7:08:29] I want to be clear.

[7:08:30] They did not ask for HyperFlex 11 here or there.

[7:08:33] They asked for less units in the north and more in the south.

[7:08:36] And I understand that they can't do that.

[7:08:38] But that's a restriction of the property

[7:08:40] and that shouldn't be something that we have to deal with.

[7:08:42] That's a restriction of the property.

[7:08:45] There should be less units there.

[7:08:48] And he's asked what the concern was with the more units.

[7:08:50] And I would say, in addition, everything else we've said,

[7:08:53] the appeal when you were about to build a $40 million

[7:08:56] new Eastern Avenue road here and the one

[7:08:59] of the first things you're going to see

[7:09:00] is the backside of townhomes.

[7:09:03] I just don't think that is is the way that we

[7:09:06] should be doing things.

[7:09:07] And i wanted to ask one question.

[7:09:12] I don't know if we know the answer to yet, which

[7:09:14] is it said there was a total of 18 units allowed

[7:09:18] between the two, but I was wondering

[7:09:20] if that includes the existing home or is this 18 new units?

[7:09:25] So that was the other question that I

[7:09:27] had that I don't think was addressed.

[7:09:28] I appreciate it.

[7:09:29] I'm going to leave the rest of my time

[7:09:30] because that's what I have to say,

[7:09:32] I hope that I don't I hope that.

[7:09:34] And my pediatrician wife don't have to move from this county

[7:09:37] if you approve this.

[7:09:38] And we have one units across the street from us.

[7:09:40] Thank you Thank you.

[7:09:43] Thank you.

[7:09:45] There, Lang, I was I even close.

[7:09:50] Yes, you.

[7:09:51] You got a pretty good, good attempt I appreciate your grace.

[7:09:54] All right.

[7:09:56] So I want to thank you all for being here

[7:09:58] And I see a lot of questions in front of developers

[7:10:04] and designers and our I want to thank my neighbors asking really

[7:10:09] questions.

[7:10:10] I don't have much to say, but I just

[7:10:11] want to sort of put on some, you know like question to you

[7:10:16] because end of the day, this is not just about 18 homes,

[7:10:20] like 18 houses on a piece of property.

[7:10:22] Right?

[7:10:23] It's really about what kind of neighborhood.

[7:10:25] We want to preserve and what kind

[7:10:27] of development, our existing infrastructure

[7:10:30] can safely support.

[7:10:32] And I have been calling for I live

[7:10:34] in Korea for leader Fox team.

[7:10:36] My heart is right up against existing home

[7:10:40] on this When Island sweet 25.

[7:10:43] And I been there for more than 20 years, I enjoy my home there.

[7:10:48] And I think this is if you are having your hand is

[7:10:51] is big because once these homes are built the increased traffic

[7:10:56] density changing neighborhood character will be permanent.

[7:11:00] It's a decision you have to make with your with your choices is

[7:11:04] going to change.

[7:11:05] My life quite big and the changing

[7:11:08] my life and the life of my neighbors quite a lot.

[7:11:11] And I respect respectfully ask permission to take care.

[7:11:14] Careful look beyond the number of proposed units.

[7:11:17] And consider this cumulative effect on this.

[7:11:20] You know, just things we our neighbors

[7:11:22] have mentioned as stormwater and the traffic safety,

[7:11:27] infrastructure to even naturally resources

[7:11:30] and the competitive compatibility about.

[7:11:33] So our neighbors.

[7:11:34] So this so I want to say, you know

[7:11:37] I think I'm the last one to speak.

[7:11:38] So I just want to preserve some time So you know,

[7:11:42] we can maybe hopefully we can go home early.

[7:11:44] Thank you Thank you.

[7:11:47] We you.

[7:11:48] You're the last one to speak in person,

[7:11:50] but now are switching to online Lisa Gaylor her.

[7:11:54] Goler Can we can you hear me?

[7:11:58] Yes.

[7:11:59] Good evening.

[7:12:00] Yes.

[7:12:00] OK.

[7:12:00] Hi.

[7:12:01] I am lisa Gaylor.

[7:12:02] I am a resident of Cozy in the Whitehall magisterial district.

[7:12:08] I live in the southwestern part of Cozy, so I'm not a neighbor

[7:12:13] but I'm interested in that sort of the,

[7:12:16] I guess the development of growth in cozy

[7:12:19] and as first of all, I'd also like

[7:12:22] to say pretty much everything I was

[7:12:23] going to say has already been said by the other speakers

[7:12:26] very well.

[7:12:26] And I want to also say that I heartily support them.

[7:12:29] And so one of the points that I did want to talk about

[7:12:32] was the challenges of the infill.

[7:12:35] It looks like most of what we're going to be doing now in Crozet

[7:12:38] is going to be infill and it's those

[7:12:41] are more of challenged lots.

[7:12:43] I think we're pretty much developed on all the low hanging

[7:12:45] fruit and I'm concerned when I see

[7:12:50] consider ation of these infill projects being compared

[7:12:54] to the properties next to them, which may be more easily,

[7:12:58] easily developable and develop or whatever to build on.

[7:13:04] I think we need to look at each one of these infill properties.

[7:13:08] Individ Surely, as has been pointed out

[7:13:10] by the other commentators, there's

[7:13:13] a lot of challenges in this particular property.

[7:13:16] And so just assuming that because it has three acres,

[7:13:21] you can put 18 units on it, what will that do to the land?

[7:13:25] What will that again, what will that

[7:13:27] do down the road for a for the people

[7:13:32] who end up becoming residents?

[7:13:33] And what will happen to other county infrastructure

[7:13:38] potentially also.

[7:13:39] And also yeah, I think that's probably

[7:13:46] the most main thing that I that i want to talk about as

[7:13:50] has also been said, you know, we're not NIMBYs,

[7:13:54] but we're interested in having really good growth.

[7:13:57] We want developments that will meet our needs including housing

[7:14:02] affordability, but also provide benefits to the community

[7:14:06] and protect the environment.

[7:14:08] And these things are critical.

[7:14:11] And I'm a little concerned because so far it

[7:14:15] doesn't seem like we have any guidelines in available

[7:14:19] for us to be thinking about that.

[7:14:20] So I'd like it if all of us can be thinking, okay, we can.

[7:14:24] We have a number of emails coming up, but you know,

[7:14:27] what are the ways that we want to think about these things?

[7:14:29] I think the community members, the county and developers

[7:14:33] need to collaborate with this.

[7:14:35] And with that, again, I like to say I strongly support

[7:14:39] the comments of the previous commentators

[7:14:42] and I want to thank you for your attention tonight.

[7:14:46] Thank you.

[7:14:47] Thank you.

[7:14:48] Rashmi, give good evening.

[7:14:54] Can you hear me?

[7:14:55] Yes, ma'am.

[7:14:55] Good evening.

[7:14:57] Hi.

[7:14:58] My name is Rashmi Guy and I live in the Whitehall district.

[7:15:02] I have some concerns about the proposed Wendy Knoll development

[7:15:06] First, I'm concerned about the density

[7:15:08] on the north side of the development

[7:15:09] and the impact of residential parking.

[7:15:11] I realize that the county uses a formula That formula doesn't

[7:15:15] seem to consider factor like multi-generational families,

[7:15:19] kids, media, car to drive to school and work, etc.

[7:15:23] I lived in a townhome community and guess parking was limited.

[7:15:27] It created tension among neighbors

[7:15:29] and it made it difficult and stressful

[7:15:31] to have guests over Those that had more than two cars would

[7:15:34] permanently park their extra vehicles in the guest spots I

[7:15:37] purchased my first home that was an hour away from work,

[7:15:40] so a minimum of two hours commute each way.

[7:15:43] Day because that's what I could afford.

[7:15:45] And it allowed me to have a little extra space.

[7:15:49] I ended up selling my townhome because the parking

[7:15:51] situation became untenable The surrounding neighborhoods.

[7:15:55] Kori Farm Liberty Hall shouldn't bear the burden of overflow

[7:15:58] parking from another development and with the future construction

[7:16:02] of Eastern Avenue, cars would not be able to park along there.

[7:16:05] There needs to be ample parking available within the development

[7:16:08] even if that means a reduction in units for residents who

[7:16:12] are physically able potentially can walk and bike

[7:16:15] to the restaurants and grocery store for a few things,

[7:16:18] they will need their vehicle to go

[7:16:19] to Charlottesville or Waynesboro for work and shopping.

[7:16:22] Second, the community shouldn't be ultimately

[7:16:24] responsible for road maintenance, snow removal etc.,

[7:16:28] especially for residents who need more affordable housing

[7:16:31] That extra burden through higher HOA fees or special assessments

[7:16:35] can really create financial strain Third,

[7:16:37] I'm concerned about the stormwater runoff and capacity

[7:16:40] because the proposed walking path is in a lower lying area.

[7:16:43] Water will flood that path.

[7:16:45] While some will argue that during the site plan phase,

[7:16:48] stormwater will be addressed.

[7:16:49] But given the stormwater failures in Liberty Hall,

[7:16:52] that will cost the HOA quite a bit of money to remedy.

[7:16:55] And stormwater issues in other neighborhoods

[7:16:57] like mine developers and the county

[7:16:59] have shown that they can't or won't address this

[7:17:01] during or after construction To add, as a parent,

[7:17:05] having the amenity area right next to a stormwater pond

[7:17:09] concerns me The proposed development went

[7:17:12] before the Planning Commission twice

[7:17:13] and it was not recommended with the latest being so

[7:17:16] being 5 to 1.

[7:17:18] The applicant chose to move to the Board of Supervisors

[7:17:21] Given all these points, I hope the board denies

[7:17:23] this postponing application.

[7:17:25] Thank you.

[7:17:26] You.

[7:17:27] Thank you.

[7:17:27] And last on our list is Andrew Bauer Yes, hello.

[7:17:37] Can you hear me?

[7:17:38] Yes.

[7:17:39] Good evening.

[7:17:39] Yes.

[7:17:40] Andrew Bowers, live in the Whitehall district.

[7:17:43] I have followed this situation since it was first

[7:17:48] brought to the CCRC.

[7:17:50] I am a member of the CAC in Causeway

[7:17:53] and every time this developer has come back with a new plan,

[7:18:03] the way that I've thought about this is they're trying to finish

[7:18:07] a jigsaw puzzle We're trying to infill

[7:18:11] and they have a piece that they think fits in this spot

[7:18:15] and they keep turning it around and turning it different ways.

[7:18:19] And trying to cram it into the space

[7:18:21] and it's not actually the right piece

[7:18:24] for this space at this point.

[7:18:28] When you start tweaking the set backs,

[7:18:33] now you're taking scissors to the puzzle piece

[7:18:35] to try to make it fit and ultimately, that's

[7:18:38] not going to work.

[7:18:40] All of the things that these other folks have said

[7:18:43] are right on point.

[7:18:45] My main concerns are the cost for the residents long term,

[7:18:50] the safety of these private roads and walking paths.

[7:18:57] These loop, the water, maintenance,

[7:18:59] everything that's been mentioned is a problem.

[7:19:02] There's nothing about this project that's not a problem.

[7:19:06] And I highly recommend and hope that this group

[7:19:13] will follow in the steps of the Planning Commission.

[7:19:18] Thank you very much.

[7:19:20] Thank you Concludes our list.

[7:19:22] Thank you.

[7:19:23] Did we have any more signups than.

[7:19:25] All right.

[7:19:25] Very good Thank you.

[7:19:27] To those speakers.

[7:19:28] And now we can move to the applicant

[7:19:31] has a chance for rebuttal Five minutes

[7:19:33] if you choose to have it.

[7:19:37] Yes.

[7:19:37] Thank you There's a number of things to go over.

[7:19:40] But I start off with the last comment about the pieces

[7:19:44] of the jigsaw puzzle.

[7:19:45] We have trimmed our setbacks, but the opposite direction.

[7:19:48] It was Liberty Hall who got a reduction of five feet

[7:19:51] for their side.

[7:19:52] We've said, we can tackle our six the county standard

[7:19:56] ordinance on this property designated

[7:19:59] for up to six units an acre with the standards that

[7:20:02] are applicable to folks Asked about could it be are

[7:20:07] for sure could be after this.

[7:20:09] This year map would be the same.

[7:20:14] They'd be larger houses and fewer of them.

[7:20:17] And the cost of the amenities would

[7:20:20] be shared over fewer people.

[7:20:24] But the setback meets the county requirements

[7:20:27] for road access, parking, all those things

[7:20:31] are shown on our concept to meet the codes.

[7:20:34] So we've demonstrated that it can be done.

[7:20:37] That same going to do this after that we're not proffered

[7:20:39] that plan, but the thing.

[7:20:42] I think the Planning Commission got hung up on a little bit

[7:20:47] was just a thought about, you know, these townhomes

[7:20:49] and how close they are.

[7:20:53] We've addressed that concern The county staff,

[7:20:56] they were at the meeting.

[7:20:57] If you look at their staff report they said,

[7:21:00] we addressed the Planning commission's concerns

[7:21:02] by dealing with the actual issue, which is the space.

[7:21:07] I don't believe that's fair to say.

[7:21:10] Oh, well a townhome that cost less

[7:21:13] is somehow more impactful than a house that costs more

[7:21:16] by fewer houses doesn't change the space

[7:21:18] spatial relationship of this.

[7:21:20] So the density question, I think,

[7:21:23] does not get at the question that the answer, unless you want

[7:21:26] to say, look, the it's all single family over here

[7:21:30] and we should carry that predominantly across

[7:21:33] But if you look at with the staff, it's recommended.

[7:21:36] All along and which a comprehensive plan says

[7:21:37] you look how close this is to a center for the reason we push

[7:21:40] to the high side of that is because all those amenities

[7:21:43] are there for those individuals to use that investment made.

[7:21:47] Those folks have to use that.

[7:21:49] So I think that these concepts of the plan being

[7:21:52] for things people don't like development there.

[7:21:55] But let's go back 1957, right It was farmland and a couple

[7:22:03] of houses in 80.

[7:22:05] The houses this is the house that remains.

[7:22:07] And they put folks at is this house count yesterday as this

[7:22:10] is one of the this house that was here in development

[7:22:14] has occurred all around.

[7:22:16] I guess we have to go.

[7:22:17] We can go back up to the very beginning here right.

[7:22:22] That's a good picture.

[7:22:24] Developments occur all around.

[7:22:25] This for the ordinance is for the comprehensive plan,

[7:22:28] the land use plans had this in the 3 to 6 units an acre

[7:22:31] neighborhood density for 20 years.

[7:22:33] I think And what we're doing here is filling in a piece.

[7:22:38] And I get everyone wants to know before we come to this body

[7:22:41] like, hey, what's exact units going to be here?

[7:22:44] How much is it going to cost?

[7:22:45] What do I have?

[7:22:46] 26ft here?

[7:22:47] 30ft?

[7:22:48] What's the grading?

[7:22:49] But those aren't really things that we would customarily do.

[7:22:51] And you really can't commit to at this point are

[7:22:56] what are the way to develop the site?

[7:22:58] All infill sites is going to be to find the zoning

[7:23:02] ordinance that you have that matches what the land use is.

[7:23:06] And so this is what should be in the restrictions in play on it,

[7:23:09] take care of the protections in cases

[7:23:11] like this situation where you had a 15 foot previously

[7:23:16] approved setback here.

[7:23:17] We've increased it to help mitigate that situation

[7:23:20] for those neighbors.

[7:23:22] But those are the things that we can do here.

[7:23:25] I think there is a concern about cost of amenities for folks,

[7:23:29] but that's going to be a cost anywhere in Albemarle County

[7:23:32] because anything that's built new stormwater management

[7:23:35] amenities, all those things you have to pay to maintain.

[7:23:38] And I think that to say oh, we should just not

[7:23:40] build something because folks can't afford that.

[7:23:42] So they then have to live an hour away from work because they

[7:23:46] can't afford the housing.

[7:23:47] That's the wrong solution.

[7:23:49] So I I hope that summarizes the response to these things

[7:23:57] There are laws that deal with environmental regulations.

[7:24:00] There's zoning setbacks long standing development regulations

[7:24:04] that the county has had.

[7:24:05] And we're simply saying, based on all that that's

[7:24:08] how this should be built. And because

[7:24:09] of certain special circumstances,

[7:24:11] we've outlined this particular buffer setback And one more

[7:24:16] time, I'll say, you know, planning

[7:24:18] Commission didn't say oh, make this six this

[7:24:21] and spread them out more.

[7:24:23] That was response to the plan.

[7:24:24] We had 14 units up here.

[7:24:26] It's actually more.

[7:24:27] So we've done that.

[7:24:28] We spread the units out We have only two more than the maximum 9

[7:24:33] to 11 split inside and the staff has looked at our response

[7:24:36] and said Yeah, that met the concerns over there.

[7:24:39] So anything we can do Thank you, Jeff.

[7:24:41] Thank you.

[7:24:43] I'm going to leave things open since we've

[7:24:45] heard from the public and the applicant

[7:24:46] will do around and see if you all

[7:24:48] have questions for anybody at this point, staff, applicant,

[7:24:51] etc.

[7:24:52] So that fair?

[7:24:53] Yes.

[7:24:53] Supervisor Malik questions OK.

[7:24:59] Can you come back to me?

[7:25:02] Yep.

[7:25:02] Supervisor doesn't that we got a pass.

[7:25:05] So we'll come back There's some questions for the applicant

[7:25:10] Yeah.

[7:25:10] With those two questions will close.

[7:25:12] I have some questions that I wanted to hear from folks

[7:25:14] before I ask.

[7:25:16] So yeah, I don't.

[7:25:18] I don't want to be like nosy, but.

[7:25:22] And so feel free to not answer.

[7:25:24] But I was wondering if you could sort of talk

[7:25:26] about the costs that go into developments You mentioned, you

[7:25:33] know, increasing your buffers.

[7:25:35] You're losing land.

[7:25:37] There's a lot that goes into a development and the time

[7:25:43] that you spent coming back and forth, coming back and forth

[7:25:46] all adds into the costs and the fact

[7:25:48] that you are doing the affordable housing.

[7:25:50] For 40 years, I've heard from a lot of other people

[7:25:53] that really increases the costs because we need

[7:25:56] to relook at our policy Can you just kind

[7:26:00] of if you want to talk about sort of, I guess,

Board of Supervisors on 2026-09-02 1:00 PM - Regular First Meeting

Agenda

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