[0:00] All right, we'll go ahead and call to

[0:01] order the Alpine City Council meeting

[0:04] for July 28th, 2026. We'd like to excuse

[0:08] Mayor Carla Merrill and Council Member

[0:10] Schmooan who are both out of town and

[0:12] not able to attend tonight uh remotely.

[0:16] We'll go ahead and start with a roll

[0:17] call vote starting with um Andrew Young.

[0:20] >> Andrew Young present.

[0:22] >> Brent Rummler present.

[0:23] >> Sarah Blackwell present.

[0:25] >> Thank you. Chrissy Haniman, just let me

[0:26] know. She's going to be a few minutes

[0:28] late, but she should be here shortly.

[0:30] Um, I've asked Andrew Young to fill in

[0:33] and and say the prayer, and then I will

[0:35] lead us in the pledge of allegiance.

[0:37] [clears throat]

[0:39] Our heavenly father, we're grateful to

[0:40] be here as a community and blessed

[0:43] Alpine residents. We're grateful for all

[0:45] of the opportunities and uh blessings we

[0:50] have to live here, to interact with one

[0:52] another. We pray with all of our hearts

[0:55] that uh on the issues today and also

[0:58] coming up that that would please uh

[1:01] bless us and those involved. Bless their

[1:05] hearts to be softened. bless their uh

[1:08] bless an outcome that will truly be what

[1:11] our goal is

[1:14] or what we hope thy goal is is to make

[1:16] uh this and Utah in our small city a

[1:20] place that is uh peaceful a place where

[1:23] thy spirit can be and a place that is uh

[1:26] safe and we say this humbly with

[1:28] gratitude in the name of Jesus Christ.

[1:30] Amen. Please rise for the pledge of

[1:32] allegiance.

[1:36] » Ice

[1:37] to the flag of the United States of

[1:40] America and to the republic for which it

[1:43] stands. One nation under God,

[1:47] indivisible with liberty and justice for

[1:50] all.

[1:53] » Hi. Thank you very much for being here

[1:55] tonight. It's always nice to have people

[1:56] come and and participate in our in our

[1:59] civil process. We're going to go ahead

[2:01] and move on to the consent calendar. It

[2:04] was recommended by the city attorney

[2:06] that we consider moving action item A to

[2:10] the consent calendar. Um

[2:13] >> um I I'll make a motion to that we move

[2:16] action item A to the consent calendar. I

[2:19] don't think it matters where, right? Um

[2:21] maybe item D as item D.

[2:27] » Uh do we have a second? I'll second

[2:29] that. All right, let's go ahead and

[2:31] proceed with a roll call vote starting

[2:33] with Andrew. Andrew Young, yes. Brent

[2:35] Ramard, yes.

[2:35] >> Sir Blackwell, yes.

[2:37] >> Thank you. The motion passes. Um, do we

[2:40] have any questions about the consent

[2:42] calendar or any comments from staff

[2:44] about the consent calendar?

[2:46] >> Go ahead, Andrew, you want to start or

[2:48] >> Yeah. Yeah. Very quickly and brief. Uh,

[2:50] Sarah, did you want to talk about that

[2:51] only because it was going to be a little

[2:53] bit later and I did get the emails. Um,

[2:55] did you want to explain kind of the

[2:57] clarification or or Shane, I know you

[2:59] guys were looking for some clarification

[3:00] on the motion. Did it get resolved? Did

[3:03] everyone have

[3:04] >> to do

[3:06] those?

[3:07] >> Are you okay? Is everyone okay? Because

[3:09] I didn't know that it got resolved.

[3:12] Is there anything you wanted to explain

[3:14] or anything about it or just

[3:15] >> um just when I um the motion was made um

[3:18] some parentheses were omitted and which

[3:22] made a big difference in how the the

[3:24] motion read so it was a little confusing

[3:26] so we just clarified the motion

[3:30] essentially so that we're all have

[3:32] consensus are all on the same page what

[3:34] the intent was.

[3:36] >> Thank you. Anything else?

[3:38] >> That was great. No on the other two

[3:39] items or do you want to wait for those?

[3:40] >> No, go ahead. Uh the other two items are

[3:42] quick. Um the uh the uh the chip and

[3:46] seal and sil coat looks beautiful.

[3:49] [clears throat] Uh I just went through

[3:50] the numbers. I wasn't sure where the

[3:53] extra 10 grand came from that was added.

[3:56] I think it was uh

[4:00] creek uh Deer Creek. Is that where it

[4:03] was added? Uh so I just had a couple

[4:05] questions and

[4:06] >> I think it was I think it was traffic

[4:07] control.

[4:09] is where that came from.

[4:11] >> Yeah.

[4:11] >> And then just uh just the

[4:14] uh it's it's about 50 grand for the uh

[4:19] for the three falls road that no one

[4:21] uses.

[4:22] Um you know that that extra road and uh

[4:26] well it's not quite that much actually.

[4:27] It's a little lower because part of it

[4:28] was the entrance roads. There were like

[4:30] two paths. Um I don't know just if you

[4:33] want us to research ways we can handle

[4:34] that because no one really drives on it.

[4:36] was just expensive road. That's exactly why we're doing it. I

[4:39] don't know if you remember Iligia

[4:40] Estates. There was asphalt up there.

[4:42] >> It just grows like crazy.

[4:44] >> Drove on.

[4:45] >> So, I don't know.

[4:46] >> And it actually deteriorated worse than a street that

[4:50] gets driven on.

[4:51] >> He explained that to me and I was like,

[4:52] "Oh my gosh." So, when we we

[4:54] [clears throat] don't do this on roads

[4:55] we don't drive on, they actually become

[4:56] worse off. So, anyway, it's just

[4:57] expensive for a road that never gets

[4:59] used. So,

[4:59] >> and I don't think it was 50 grand.

[5:01] >> It's 19 like 195.

[5:04] >> Well, the the two of them together. So,

[5:06] it's just the two of them together.

[5:07] >> Well, the other the other

[5:08] >> the other one was on. I I know. That's

[5:09] why I said I brought it back down the

[5:11] two of them together.

[5:12] >> I mean, I can tell you exactly if I find

[5:14] way.

[5:14] >> No, no, it's okay. It's just But uh the

[5:16] main question was if we find a way to

[5:19] preserve these roads that don't actually

[5:21] need drive them driving on them, some

[5:23] glue, some anything. Just keep your uh

[5:25] you know, engineering antennas open for

[5:28] potentially a fix for roads that never

[5:31] get on. uh if we don't seal them, they

[5:34] are, you know,

[5:35] >> and that's exactly what we did. This is

[5:37] a seal coat. It's not an overlay. It's the cheapest it's the cheapest

[5:42] alternative to protect it from the as

[5:47] the asphalts in the pavement uh

[5:50] oxidizing,

[5:50] >> breaking up. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, that

[5:52] was that was it. Just just just looking

[5:54] at them. Um thanks. They look so great.

[5:55] And then uh on the um on the 185 for the

[6:00] water truck, nice find. I I did some

[6:04] comparative numbers. That was really

[6:05] good. Thanks for getting a used one.

[6:06] It's got a new engine. So I I thank you

[6:09] for finding that. I think that'll help

[6:10] with the rodeo and everything.

[6:11] >> All the thanks to Landon.

[6:13] >> Thank you, Landon, for um for finding

[6:15] that and finding a used one.

[6:16] >> And it's it's been in process for a long

[6:19] time.

[6:20] >> Yeah, I saw the work. I I meant to bring

[6:22] this all up this morning, but our water

[6:23] meeting and things that got in the way.

[6:25] Thank you. That's all.

[6:27] >> All right. Thank you. Any further

[6:28] questions?

[6:30] >> I'll go ahead and entertain a motion.

[6:34] >> I move that we approve the consent

[6:36] calendar.

[6:38] >> Second.

[6:40] >> Okay. We'll go ahead and proceed with a

[6:41] roll call vote.

[6:42] >> Andrew Young, yes.

[6:43] >> Brent Rmler, yes.

[6:43] >> Sarah Blackwell, yes.

[6:45] >> Right. The motion passes.

[6:47] >> Thank you. Uh, thank you, Shane, for the

[6:48] clarification. We'll move on to public

[6:50] comments. Um we receive I have two cards

[6:53] I received. Um, one, um, is related to

[6:59] an item that's on the agenda for tonight

[7:02] and under Alpine City policy, um, that's

[7:07] been

[7:09] explained in prior meetings, including

[7:11] about this issue, is we we will not be

[7:13] doing any comments related to items that

[7:16] are on the agenda

[7:18] because there's not a public hearing

[7:20] related to that.

[7:21] So the other public comment card is from

[7:24] Larry. Larry, if you would go ahead and

[7:26] come forward. It's Van

[7:30] I know your email is just Van.

[7:32] >> Yeah, Van Vector.

[7:33] >> Van Vector. Thanks, Larry. And we've

[7:34] spoken before.

[7:35] >> So Larry, just let you know, um, if you

[7:38] could state your name and the street

[7:39] where you live. Okay.

[7:40] >> And you have three minutes. And I

[7:41] appreciate you being here.

[7:42] >> Okay. He had a file

[7:43] >> and I did send over a a slide in an

[7:46] email

[7:46] >> that could get pulled up. Yeah, I'm

[7:47] Larry Van Becker over on Alagany Court

[7:51] and I'm here to remind you guys that

[7:54] we're still hoping that we can get some

[7:56] adjustment to the speed on Canyon Crest.

[7:59] I'm here to represent or not represent

[8:01] but to at least in regards to the

[8:03] neighborhoods along Canyon Crest. And

[8:06] not too long ago, somebody did the

[8:09] disservice of renaming Westfield and

[8:12] Canyon Crest as arteries when they're

[8:14] actually not. They're just other humble

[8:17] streets in Alpine just like yours and

[8:20] with families and friends living on

[8:21] them. Actually, no wider than Alpine

[8:24] Boulevard.

[8:26] And I've been trying to come up with

[8:28] reasons, pros and cons of why a 35 mph

[8:33] speed would be better than 25. And the

[8:36] only thing I could come up with was that

[8:38] you can get somewhere extremely

[8:40] important one minute sooner.

[8:42] >> Kaden, it's 25. PDF the first one.

[8:45] >> And the cons are it's much more

[8:48] difficult to pull out of a street or a

[8:50] driveway into traffic going 35 than it

[8:53] is traffic going 25. It's much more

[8:56] difficult attempting to use a crosswalk

[8:58] in traffic going 35 as opposed to 25.

[9:01] Especially when the crosswalks are

[9:03] inadequately marked.

[9:06] There is more rumble in the ground and

[9:07] noise in the air when vehicles are going

[9:10] 35 as opposed to 25.

[9:12] Drivers in a 35 zone tend to do 45 while

[9:15] drivers in the 25 zone keep it to 30.

[9:19] Vehicle accidents at 35 are more

[9:22] hazardous than when they are going 25.

[9:26] And with not a whole lot of benefit that

[9:28] I can come up with, I would hope that

[9:30] you guys might consider lowering the

[9:32] speed on Canest and Westfield so that we

[9:36] could enjoy the same peaceful quality of

[9:39] life that others in the neighborhood

[9:42] enjoy. And as you can see in the

[9:44] picture, the first picture there about

[9:46] the 35 zone, but people are doing 47 up

[9:49] that hill. And in the second picture

[9:54] is Another view with a new sign.

[9:59] Enjoy the tranquility of Alpine.

[10:03] >> Right, Sarah?

[10:04] >> I like it. [laughter]

[10:05] >> All right. Thanks for your time.

[10:06] >> Thank you very much. Appreciate your

[10:08] comments. [clears throat]

[10:10] I would like to acknowledge that council

[10:13] member Hanaman has arrived.

[10:15] Thank you.

[10:18] All right. Um, we'll go on to reports

[10:21] and presentations. The first report is

[10:23] the parks master plan update. Shane, do

[10:27] you have any introduction?

[10:28] >> Yeah, so we've been working on this for

[10:30] several months. Uh Lisa Benson's here um

[10:34] from the the consulting group that's uh

[10:37] working on this project and they've her

[10:39] and Karen have done an awesome job. We

[10:42] meet uh it weekly or every other week. I

[10:45] hit all kinds of runs together now. I

[10:47] just have meetings all the time, but we

[10:49] meet regularly and go over things. Um,

[10:52] we [clears throat] wanted to uh have a

[10:55] presentation and let the council kind of

[10:58] see the results of the survey and some

[11:00] of the things that they've done and then

[11:01] we need some direction on a few things

[11:04] to to keep this moving forward. So, I

[11:07] think Lisa has a presentation that

[11:09] she'll give us here tonight.

[11:14] » All right. Um, thank you for the

[11:16] opportunity to be here. We're really

[11:18] excited to be at this part of the

[11:19] project. Um I just wanted to hit a few

[11:22] highlights. Um we have been working with

[11:24] a steering committee as well in addition

[11:26] to working with staff and then we had

[11:28] our community survey and our public

[11:30] event here at city hall which um had a

[11:32] really really good turnout. So we're

[11:34] excited to kind of give you some of the

[11:35] findings before we move into our draft

[11:37] plan phase and just get your thoughts on

[11:39] a few items as Shane mentioned. Um, so

[11:42] we had 362 responses to the survey,

[11:45] which is actually pretty high for just

[11:47] an open-ended survey that anybody could

[11:49] um, participate in. Um, and you can see

[11:52] that park use is really high in your

[11:54] community. This is a lot higher than we

[11:56] see in most of our communities. We're

[11:57] really excited to see this level of of

[11:59] participation with the community and not

[12:01] too surprising that Creekide and Lambert

[12:03] are the most popular parks.

[12:06] Um, the most popular reasons that people

[12:08] use that park, their mostused park, is

[12:11] because it's close to home or for the

[12:12] trails.

[12:15] And you can see again, just following up

[12:16] on proximity to home, over 82% um

[12:20] believe that it's extremely or very

[12:21] important to have parks close to home.

[12:25] And then um the

[12:28] Sorry, it's so tiny. Um, so when we're

[12:31] talking about improvements to parks that

[12:33] people want to see, trails and pathways

[12:35] are the most popular. Um, followed by

[12:37] playground equipment and then it kind of

[12:39] tapers off from there.

[12:43] And then when we look at um what people

[12:46] are going to outside of the community um

[12:49] trails, playgrounds, swimming pools,

[12:52] open space, obviously you have

[12:53] connection to a lot of that in your

[12:54] community. And then athletic courts

[12:59] and people also use trails um at a

[13:01] significantly high rate in your

[13:03] community with over 72% using them, you

[13:05] know, a few times a month or more.

[13:09] And um there's just a small only four

[13:12] people that took the survey don't use

[13:14] trails and you can see there's just a

[13:16] variety of reasons you know physical

[13:17] ability or lack of information um not

[13:20] interested or they use the sidewalks as

[13:22] well and don't necessarily need trails.

[13:26] Um when we look at improvements to the

[13:28] park or to the trail system, people want

[13:30] to see the trails more complete or

[13:32] connected. Um they want to see increased

[13:34] mileage. They want to link neighborhoods

[13:36] to your trail system. And then also just

[13:39] a little better signage, trail markers,

[13:41] that sort of thing, helping people with

[13:42] wayfinding when they're on the system.

[13:46] The most popular trails that people want

[13:48] to see more of are those natural surface

[13:51] um hiking and biking trails. They're pretty content with what you

[13:54] have as far as asphalt and concrete

[13:55] trails right now.

[13:58] Community events, not too surprising

[14:00] that Alpine Days is the most popular. Um

[14:02] followed by the summer poppy fields. uh

[14:04] trucks and tunes and the rodeo.

[14:09] And when we asked what activities people

[14:11] want to see in the future, you can see

[14:12] here that outdoor concerts and

[14:14] performances was number one. Um and that

[14:16] was followed by outdoor markets or

[14:17] vendor fairs and then movie nights,

[14:19] rounding out the top three.

[14:24] And then when we we asked um we gave

[14:26] people a hypothetical $100 and asked

[14:28] them to prioritize that funding. And you

[14:31] can see that upgrading existing parks

[14:33] and playgrounds kind of topped both the

[14:35] allocation and the percentage of people

[14:37] that were dedicating their money towards

[14:38] that um item. Also popular were

[14:42] additional trails and additional open

[14:43] space. So we're seeing a lot of

[14:45] alignment between these different survey

[14:47] responses which is good.

[14:50] Um, and then we asked about um increased

[14:53] um taxes people would be willing to pay

[14:56] for both existing parks, upgrading

[14:59] those, maintaining those, or adding new

[15:01] parks. And you can see there's a pretty

[15:02] close divide here. There's not a big big

[15:05] direction either way. Um, you can see 48

[15:07] to $49 average. And it's a pretty even

[15:10] split slightly leaning towards upgrading

[15:12] those existing parks.

[15:16] And then we just um capture a little bit of demographic information to

[15:20] make sure we're on par, you know, that

[15:21] it's representative of the city. This

[15:22] isn't a statistically valid survey

[15:24] because it was open-ended. It didn't go

[15:25] out randomly, but just to give you kind

[15:27] of a sense of where we're at. I do think

[15:29] the interesting point on here is that um

[15:31] about almost 40% of respondents don't

[15:34] have children in their households. And

[15:36] of those um that do have children in

[15:39] their households, um the greatest

[15:41] portion is there in that older age

[15:42] bracket for the survey.

[15:46] And then just touching on some of the

[15:48] highlights from the openhouse that we

[15:49] had here at city hall. Oh, and the

[15:51] website, I forgot. So, we do have the

[15:53] website going on, alpine parkspl.org,

[15:56] and we've had over a thousand page views

[15:57] and a pretty decent number of unique

[15:59] visitors on that. A few comments coming

[16:01] in on that.

[16:03] And then up at the openhouse, um, we

[16:06] asked about the condition of of of the

[16:08] parks and trails, people's perceptions,

[16:10] and you can see pretty good ratings,

[16:12] excellent or good. um are the greatest

[16:14] portion. And then people get to your

[16:17] parks through um walking or biking,

[16:20] which is this is a higher percentage

[16:21] than we see in most communities, which

[16:23] is kind of significant.

[16:26] Um and then we asked um which special

[16:29] amenities or special use parks should

[16:31] con the city consider uh constructing

[16:33] and you can see [clears throat] trails

[16:35] again right there. Number one, a bicycle

[16:36] pump track and then um kind of lower

[16:39] down was the disc golf climbing park or

[16:41] all abilities playground.

[16:44] And also looking at um again we wanted

[16:47] to ask how close how important it is it

[16:49] to have those parks close to home. Again

[16:51] over 83% saying that's important. And

[16:54] then just generally um an open-ended

[16:56] question about what is missing from the

[16:58] parks and trails system. And you can see

[17:00] again um people want to see playground

[17:02] updates and new equipment. Um again more

[17:06] trails and trail connections. And then a

[17:09] few wanting some soccer fields, disc

[17:10] golf, and some of those other special

[17:12] use facilities.

[17:16] And again, we asked the $100 question,

[17:18] and this time we let people vote with

[17:19] pom poms. Each pom pom was $10 and

[17:22] trails received the highest portion of

[17:24] the vote. Uh followed by natural open

[17:26] space, upgrading those existing

[17:28] amenities, and then adding athletic

[17:30] fields and courts.

[17:33] So, does anybody have any questions on

[17:35] those high level survey results before

[17:38] we

[17:41] >> Okay,

[17:42] >> just one on the uh pro the prop the the

[17:47] if you would add the $48 Oh, pardon me.

[17:50] If you would add the 48 and $47 for the

[17:53] uh development of new parks, the

[17:55] allocation was that question per year or

[17:57] per month?

[17:58] >> That was per year. So you just kind of

[17:59] asked them how much would you be willing

[18:01] to spend

[18:02] >> per year additional property parks and

[18:05] that was kind of where they landed.

[18:06] >> Yeah, that was kind of the average.

[18:08] >> Yeah.

[18:09] >> What options were they given?

[18:11] >> I think it was a scale of 0 to 100.

[18:14] >> So

[18:17] okay so we wanted to touch on um some of

[18:20] the findings from our existing

[18:21] conditions analysis.

[18:23] uh we we take a look at your

[18:24] demographics just to see where you're

[18:26] at, where you're expected to go, and

[18:27] this helps us determine where what your

[18:29] park needs are going to be in the

[18:30] future. So, right now, you're sitting at

[18:32] a little over 10,500 residents, and by

[18:35] 2050, you're only expected to get a

[18:37] little over 11,000. So, not not the

[18:39] amount of growth that we're seeing in

[18:40] other communities. Um, but we know you

[18:43] still have plenty to deal with. So,

[18:45] a lot of lot of interests and needs to

[18:48] meet. So uh we also take a look at your

[18:50] age distribution and you can see that um

[18:52] when we look at the lower end of the age

[18:53] groups um the 10 to 14 age group of

[18:56] children is kind of your largest age

[18:58] group. Um and then you can see that the

[19:01] 55 to 85 age group has also increased

[19:03] since 2000. So it's kind of interesting

[19:05] to watch some of these trends you know

[19:07] both ends of of the the spectrum on age

[19:10] and those differing needs.

[19:12] >> If you go back to that slide that was

[19:13] one of the most fascinating slides I had

[19:15] seen. If you look on the blue line,

[19:17] that's what we were in 2000. This took a

[19:19] little bit for me to understand. I don't

[19:20] know if you all understand it well. The

[19:23] blue line is what our population was in

[19:25] that age bracket in 2010. And then as

[19:27] you see, it's going down towards the red

[19:29] towards where we are now. But it's

[19:31] rising towards the 70 74 year olds, 60

[19:33] to 69 uh dramatically lowering in the 10

[19:37] to well not dramatic, but lowering in

[19:38] the 10 to 14, 15 to 19. Quite a jump

[19:42] down. Do you see this in other cities?

[19:44] Is this a common thing or are we kind of

[19:46] an outlier?

[19:46] >> Um, it depends on the community. We're

[19:48] starting to see some shifts towards

[19:49] older older age groups, but you can also

[19:52] see that um that youngest underage vibe

[19:54] is slowly creeping up too. So, there's

[19:56] all these subtle trends going on.

[19:57] >> That's true. Look at the five to nine

[19:58] year olds who are having some kids. Go

[20:00] ahead. And it seems to be

[20:01] >> I contributed to that this last year in

[20:03] the [laughter]

[20:06] » seems to be as as property values in

[20:07] property costs increase that places

[20:10] further away where it's more affordable.

[20:12] That's where the younger families lived.

[20:14] >> Yeah.

[20:17] >> Okay. So, we take a look at your your

[20:18] park system and then we divide that by

[20:20] park type. And this helps us run a

[20:22] couple of assessments. So, we take all

[20:24] of your um community, neighborhood, and

[20:26] local park types. We add that acreage up

[20:29] and we run a level of service analysis

[20:30] on that. And that's just a ratio of park

[20:33] acres per thousand residents. So, you

[20:35] have all these other amenities. you have

[20:37] the cemetery rodeo grounds and a lot of

[20:39] open space, but that doesn't necessarily

[20:41] fit into the traditional park category.

[20:42] And we kind of focus on those because

[20:44] that helps us compare um to other

[20:46] communities and just be a little more

[20:48] consistent with our analysis.

[20:52] And so right now um your existing park

[20:54] acres um are at 77.1 and divided by your

[21:00] current population times a thousand that

[21:01] puts you at 7.3 park acres per thousand

[21:04] residents.

[21:06] And people always want to know how do we

[21:08] compare and you guys are sitting really

[21:10] high compared to other communities in

[21:12] the region. This is one of the highest

[21:13] that that I've seen in my work in parks.

[21:16] Um so you're doing really well for a

[21:18] small community.

[21:21] Um and then when we look out into the

[21:23] future, if you don't develop any

[21:25] additional parkland, by 2035, your LOS

[21:29] will drop to 7.2, which is still great.

[21:32] And by 2050, it'll still be at 6.8. So

[21:34] you'll you would still be kind of at the

[21:37] top range of that. Um and the imp

[21:41] implications for future park acreage. Um

[21:44] so if we maintained that 7.3 park acres

[21:47] per thousand people moving forward uh by

[21:49] 2035 you would need one and a half

[21:51] additional acres of parkland. And then

[21:53] by 2050 you would need five additional

[21:55] acres on top of that. So this is a lot

[21:58] smaller than we see in other communities

[22:00] too. And it's really been fun to see how

[22:01] unique Alpine is with a lot of these characteristics and figuring out

[22:05] how we're going to move forward for such

[22:07] a unique community.

[22:10] And I think that's one of the things

[22:11] that we want to get input on from

[22:12] council tonight is where you feel

[22:14] comfortable moving forward in the future

[22:17] because we can set that um LOS wherever

[22:20] we want to. You can be some communities

[22:22] want to be aspirational and you know set

[22:24] it really high like St. George, they

[22:26] just target because they want to be

[22:27] recreation destination. And we heard

[22:28] from the community, that's not what we

[22:30] want. We want just our, you know, quiet,

[22:32] enjoyable community. Um, and your LOS is

[22:35] so high right now that it's okay if we

[22:38] set a lower number and you would still

[22:39] be serving your residents well. So, um,

[22:42] Shane wanted to make sure we brought

[22:43] that for you tonight before you so that

[22:46] we can kind of get your guidance on

[22:47] that. Um, and then I can just talk about

[22:49] distribution real quick and then we can

[22:52] follow up on that. Uh, so we just map

[22:54] your existing parks and open space,

[22:56] making sure we had updated information

[22:57] on where all that is. And then we do a

[23:00] um distancebased

[23:02] kind of a walk time analysis and a

[23:04] distance space analysis to see where

[23:06] residential areas fall in relationship

[23:08] to parks. And you can see here that

[23:10] purple indicates the 10-minute walk

[23:12] shed. Um, the darker yellow is existing

[23:15] residential and the lighter yellow is

[23:17] potential future residential. So that

[23:19] shows that your core is really well

[23:21] served within a 10-minute walk.

[23:24] And then if we do a distancebased

[23:26] service area, this is where we assign a

[23:29] different radius to different park

[23:30] types. And that's kind of assigned based

[23:31] on the number of amenities and the

[23:32] quality of amenities, park size. So

[23:35] people are more willing to drive to a

[23:37] community park because it's larger. It

[23:39] has more amenities. So we give that a

[23:41] onem service area. Uh neighborhood parks

[23:43] receive a half mile service area and

[23:45] then local parks receive a quarter mile

[23:47] service area. So, you can see it kind of

[23:49] bumps out those service areas, you know,

[23:52] residents that can access parks, not

[23:54] necessarily within that 10-minute walk

[23:56] time, but within the drive time.

[24:03] So, that's kind of the quick and version

[24:06] of what we're finding so far and and

[24:08] what we'll be addressing as we move

[24:09] forward.

[24:12] >> Yeah. So, we were pretty happy to see

[24:14] the the ratio of, you know, parks, acres

[24:18] of parks to our residents that we have

[24:21] here. Um, but that is something that we

[24:23] need some direction on. Um, you know, if

[24:26] we if we're okay to go down to 6.8 and

[24:29] what was it, 2050, Lisa? Um, that's

[24:33] something we need to know if because if 7.2 two is our level of service that

[24:40] we want to maintain, then we'll need to

[24:43] build money into the impact fees and and

[24:46] the plan to acquire property.

[24:50] Um, and so it changes things quite a

[24:52] bit. So that's that's why we need

[24:55] direction on that.

[24:58] >> Um, you kind of partner that too with

[25:00] when you do acquire parkland, you want

[25:02] to also try to acquire it in those gap

[25:04] areas if you do need additional park. So

[25:07] that's another factor you can look at.

[25:09] >> So one,

[25:12] if you're okay, you want to just go

[25:13] ahead and start. I'll just start with my

[25:15] initial impressions. Thank you so much.

[25:16] That was very informative. I read it

[25:17] beforehand, but it helps to have you

[25:18] explain it and and go through it with us as well. Um it's very glad to

[25:24] see also that we're on the high end of

[25:26] the park acreage per per resident. uh

[25:32] and you don't you don't even count

[25:33] Lambert Park and you saw how important

[25:36] the trails use was to our alpine

[25:38] residents and so when you consider our

[25:41] open space parks and including Beexil

[25:44] Park to the south, Lambert Park, Three

[25:46] Falls Park open space I should say, um

[25:50] there's a lot more public amenities for

[25:52] what Alpine residents are looking for.

[25:55] Another consideration is the cost of

[25:57] real estate in Alpine and that would be

[26:00] definitely a consideration. I I hesitate

[26:02] to make decisions for 2050. That's a

[26:04] long I I probably won't be around in

[26:06] 2050.

[26:07] >> Hopefully I will be still, but not not

[26:09] on the city council. That's guaranteed

[26:11] still. Um,

[26:14] but for me it seems like at least in the

[26:17] near future, the b the bang for the buck

[26:19] is to improve our parks, especially some

[26:22] areas that have been identified as as

[26:24] having needs like the Creek Side Park

[26:26] playground and some improvements to a

[26:28] few other regional parks. The other

[26:30] question I have for our staff is as some

[26:34] of these we saw on the slide the

[26:35] undeveloped property potential developed

[26:37] property in the future. What is the

[26:39] possibility of doing planned residential

[26:41] developments and having rather than just

[26:44] trails or open space, having land owners

[26:47] designate areas for for regional parks

[26:50] or local parks so we can meet some of

[26:52] those needs in the more faroff parts of

[26:55] our community um in exchange for higher

[26:58] density in those areas. I was just in

[27:00] Cedar Hills today driving down a street

[27:02] I don't normally drive down because they

[27:03] had a road closure and there was this

[27:05] beautiful little local park that I'd

[27:07] never seen before that would serve those

[27:09] local residents like these could.

[27:12] >> Yeah. So, one thing, one thing to just

[27:15] consider, at least in our experience

[27:17] with these local parks, we call them

[27:19] pocket parks a lot, um, is they're quite

[27:24] a bit more expensive to maintain because

[27:27] they're so small and they just take, you

[27:29] know, the time to unload equipment to

[27:31] mow a half acre, an acre, whatever.

[27:34] That's just something to consider. And I

[27:36] think a lot of them

[27:38] aren't used very heavily, even by the

[27:40] local residents. Um, I I think of the

[27:43] Silverleaf Park that's kind of in the

[27:45] middle of that Ponderosa Maple Ridge

[27:49] Drive area. I don't know if I've ever

[27:51] seen anyone out there. And I'm, you

[27:53] know, obviously I'm not out there every

[27:55] day, but that's even a larger parcel.

[27:59] Um, but we we mow it twice a week. We

[28:02] fix sprinklers and everything. And it

[28:04] just I don't think it sees the use. And

[28:07] granted, there's not like a nice

[28:09] playground there or a pavilion or

[28:11] anything. There's no parking except on

[28:13] the street. But I think those are things

[28:16] that

[28:17] should be considered um when looking at

[28:21] these. Uh another example that's kind of

[28:23] on the other end that has amenities is

[28:25] Annie Park. It's the newest one we have

[28:27] in the city. It's got a parking lot. It

[28:30] has a restroom. It has a playground.

[28:33] I'm not sure it gets used very much

[28:35] either. And maybe it needs more time to

[28:37] be discovered. It's probably

[28:39] >> What was that one called in?

[28:40] >> It's called Annie Park.

[28:41] >> Annie Park. Where's that at?

[28:42] >> It's up in the Rigid Alpine.

[28:44] >> Oh, okay.

[28:44] >> It's kind of at the end of a culde-sac.

[28:47] Um, but it it also serves as a detention

[28:51] basin. Um, but it's a nice little park

[28:56] and I'm I'm not sure how much it gets

[28:58] used, but you know, compared to Burgess

[29:01] and all the people and Creekide that you

[29:03] see walking the asphalt trails and all

[29:05] those things, but just something to

[29:08] consider um when making those decisions.

[29:11] >> So, the other thing is even if we don't

[29:13] acquire any more land or create any more

[29:15] parks, we're still going to be head and

[29:18] shoulders above most communities in the

[29:20] area.

[29:20] >> Yeah. So my I think my preference at

[29:23] least for the next several years would

[29:25] be to work towards making those

[29:28] improvements that we've talked about

[29:29] with Creekide Peterson Park in

[29:32] conjunction with conjunction with the uh

[29:35] Canyon Crest improvements that are

[29:36] upcoming.

[29:40] » Yes, I I agree with that. I think top

[29:42] priority would just be to maintain the

[29:43] ones that we have and upgrade them. And

[29:46] that was another question. Is that

[29:47] something that was is within the scope

[29:50] of what you plan to do is kind of

[29:52] recommend upgrades for various parks or

[29:55] is this just a preliminary kind of

[29:57] giving us some of the resident feedback

[30:00] data? So this is a high level look

[30:02] systemwide but we are going because it's

[30:05] such a unique plan and a unique

[30:07] community we are going park by perk and

[30:09] providing a list of recommendations and

[30:11] some of these the next step is going to

[30:13] be to develop a master plan because we

[30:15] could say you should do this and this but that may not necessarily be

[30:19] what the community wants to see like you

[30:21] know of those special amenities what

[30:22] really makes sense for location within

[30:24] the community and you know that isn't

[30:26] the role of this plan to do that is to

[30:28] say what the community wants what you

[30:29] need um and kind of give you a sense

[30:32] what the community is interested in. But

[30:33] we we definitely want to see that

[30:35] community process happen when we design

[30:36] those parks out.

[30:38] >> No, I love that. I love getting the

[30:39] community input. I came to that night

[30:41] did the little pom poms. It was great.

[30:44] Um I think if if there is an OP so that

[30:46] would be my top priority is maintaining

[30:48] the current parks that we have and then

[30:50] perhaps if if for some reason land

[30:53] adjacent to a current park like I don't

[30:55] know Peterson Park or something like

[30:57] that becomes available, you know, that

[30:58] might be something to consider. But, um,

[31:00] as far as like acquiring land for new

[31:03] parks, unless it's part of a PRD, I I

[31:05] don't I don't know. I mean, a level of

[31:08] service, I mean, we're pretty high. So,

[31:12] I mean, even within 50 years, we'd be

[31:15] around six, I think, is what I saw. And

[31:18] that's still pretty high compared to

[31:19] other cities. So, I would prefer to just

[31:23] spend the funds keeping um taking care

[31:26] of what we currently have.

[31:28] Um and then I just had one other

[31:30] question like how do you determine what

[31:31] is considered a community, neighborhood

[31:33] or local park? Like what are the

[31:35] definitions of each of those? How do you

[31:37] classify those?

[31:38] >> Yeah, so typically a community park is

[31:40] 10 to 30 acres. Um and so we kind of

[31:44] take look at it through the lens of

[31:45] acreage to start with and also

[31:46] amenities. you know, park may have may

[31:48] meet it acreage wise, but if there's

[31:50] nothing there, then, you know, we can

[31:52] make the determination say, well, this

[31:53] is a a neighborhood park, but you really

[31:55] need to add some amenities to help it

[31:57] qualify as that. You know, like Beexil

[31:59] Park, you know, we're looking at some

[32:01] upgrades there, but not necessarily, you

[32:04] know, changing categories or something

[32:05] like that. You know, you want to make

[32:07] the make recommendations that are kind

[32:09] of intentional for that area. Okay.

[32:11] Thank you. Um,

[32:14] and

[32:18] I'm trying to think if I had any other

[32:19] questions. Oh, um it seemed like trails

[32:22] was like a big um you got a lot of

[32:25] feedback about trails. So, when we're

[32:27] talking about level of service and we're

[32:29] talking about parks, I also think maybe

[32:33] we also need to talk about trails and

[32:36] maintaining those or maybe adding new

[32:38] trails if we're talking about adding new

[32:39] parks. Do we just maintain the current

[32:41] trails we have or are we looking at

[32:42] adding more trails? And I know we have a

[32:44] trail master plan that will kind of help

[32:46] guide us and dictate on that, but I

[32:47] don't know if you have any other insight

[32:49] on that.

[32:49] >> Yeah, in trails is a different animal.

[32:51] We we don't I mean some communities will

[32:53] look at it from a level of service

[32:54] perspective, but I don't think that's

[32:56] really appropriate. I think it's more

[32:57] about, you know, what are the community

[32:59] destinations? Where are the gaps? What,

[33:01] you know, how do people want to get

[33:02] there? What's the best way to do that?

[33:03] And so, yeah, we're we're working with

[33:05] that trails master plan and with staff

[33:06] to make sure that there's a trail

[33:08] concept in here. and um and we'll be

[33:11] showing that future network and um yeah

[33:15] and then just again addressing some of

[33:16] those upgrades that residents want to

[33:19] see. Thank you. Thanks for the

[33:21] presentation. Yeah,

[33:22] >> I did have a couple of questions. I uh I

[33:25] appreciated all the visual because I'm

[33:28] very visual so um it was easy to follow

[33:31] and I appreciate that. Um, so when just

[33:34] to follow up from Sarah's question, so I

[33:37] think if I was doing my quick math, we

[33:39] have like a thousand acres that were

[33:40] outside of the your definition to as a

[33:44] level of service. So, how do you suggest

[33:46] that we like incorporate that into some

[33:48] measurable

[33:50] um level of service? Because it is

[33:53] something that's like Sarah said, prized

[33:55] by our residents and like miles of

[33:57] trails or like some unique way to

[34:00] articulate what that looks and feels

[34:02] like to our community to sort of um

[34:07] to not under undervalue

[34:11] it in a way. Do you know what I'm

[34:12] saying? because it's not in in our I am

[34:14] a numbers person.

[34:15] >> Yeah, there's not a number to it.

[34:16] >> Yeah. So, how how would you suggest we

[34:18] do that?

[34:19] >> So, we don't typically recommend a level

[34:22] of service for open space just because

[34:24] it's acquired on such an opportunistic

[34:26] basis. Um, you know, it just you never

[34:29] know when, where, you know, what the

[34:31] opportunity is going to be to come. You

[34:32] know, like Draper City, they had an

[34:34] opportunity come up for I can't even

[34:35] remember how many, like a thousand acres

[34:37] or something, and they just went after

[34:38] it, you know. So some of those

[34:40] opportunities arise when you know maybe

[34:41] a development collapses or something

[34:43] like that. Um so

[34:44] >> what about the trails on the open space?

[34:48] >> Um so trails again it's more about the

[34:51] connections and again you know I mean

[34:54] developing all the soft and mountain

[34:56] bike trails that can be you know a

[34:59] trails committee that sort of thing that

[35:00] gets into detail on that. Um but again

[35:04] it's more um trails is just more about

[35:06] either the destinations or when it comes

[35:08] to mountain bike trails the experience

[35:10] you know or you know could we use

[35:12] connect this part of the mountain to

[35:13] that part of the mountain or working

[35:14] with surrounding communities. So it's I

[35:17] don't think it really does the plan

[35:20] justice or the community justice to

[35:21] assign a number to it. we will be

[35:23] calling out and acknowledging how many

[35:25] acres there are and you know what the

[35:27] amenities in those are and how important

[35:29] it is to the community emphasizing that

[35:32] um and and making a recommendation on

[35:34] the types of properties or types of

[35:35] opportunities and we can even include

[35:37] you know a list of tools that you can

[35:38] use to help acquire those um but we we

[35:42] try not to assign numbers to that um

[35:44] just because it's not typically how

[35:46] they're acquired and if that makes

[35:48] sense.

[35:48] >> I see. So

[35:49] >> yeah.

[35:50] >> So we like [clears throat] you know like

[35:52] we you said we like to compare ourselves

[35:54] to other cities. So we can't there's not

[35:56] really a measure in your industry that

[35:58] is uniform that we could that people

[36:01] >> we're we're so unique in the west

[36:02] because like if you look at the National

[36:04] Recreation and Parks Association they do

[36:06] general um stats for communities of

[36:09] different sizes. Okay. And for a

[36:10] community of your size, I think it it

[36:12] was kind of astronomical the number of

[36:14] park acres. But the back east, they

[36:17] don't have access to the, you know,

[36:19] hundreds and thousands of acres that we

[36:20] have adjacent to a lot of our

[36:22] communities. So, we're just different

[36:23] out here.

[36:24] >> Okay.

[36:24] >> And then when you think about parks

[36:26] level of service, it does have

[36:28] implications for, you know, your future,

[36:30] what you need to acquire. And if you

[36:32] just lump a bunch of that open space in,

[36:34] you're kind of artificially inflating

[36:36] your park's level of service.

[36:38] >> Okay.

[36:38] >> Um, if that makes sense. Yeah. No, it

[36:40] does. I just was curious um because we

[36:44] seem to be measuring only one thing and

[36:46] yet our our residents value the other

[36:48] thing. So, I didn't know how to measure

[36:50] it.

[36:51] >> Um

[36:51] >> I think we can definitely consider it

[36:53] though as

[36:53] >> Yes. No, she said she was gonna Yeah.

[36:55] You know, I like to be ranked at the

[36:58] top. Just kidding. Okay. Not not just

[37:00] kidding. Okay. Um, the other

[37:03] [clears throat] thing I was going to

[37:03] ask, um, like I've looked at the master

[37:06] plan, um, that's outdated for Alpine and

[37:09] it and it like designates like sports

[37:12] fields acres versus like leisure acres

[37:14] versus So, is that a thing of the past

[37:16] as well? Like because I didn't see that

[37:18] broken out in any way or is that still

[37:20] to come or what? So, so you bring up an

[37:23] important important point for the

[37:24] community as well because there is this

[37:26] designation of sports parks versus

[37:28] family parks and we're aware of that.

[37:30] And the way that we're working that into

[37:33] the plan is that um the parks will have

[37:37] their, you know, community neighborhood

[37:39] local park designation, but it will also

[37:41] be paired with that family park or

[37:43] sports park designation. And the plan is

[37:46] going to recommend that the city

[37:47] formalize whatever ordinances or some

[37:50] language around that so there's not the

[37:52] confusion about what's allowed and

[37:53] what's not allowed in this park and are

[37:55] we ever going to see this amenity here?

[37:56] I don't want to see a field here. You

[37:58] know, this is supposed to be a family

[37:59] park. So, the plan is going to help

[38:01] clarify that and make recommendations

[38:02] for you to move forward in a maybe a

[38:04] little stronger way that way.

[38:06] >> And is there a a measure to to say like

[38:09] sports fields per capita or anything

[38:12] like that? Um so we are actually doing

[38:14] an analysis of um so the way we look at

[38:16] amenities is population per amenity. So

[38:20] population per baseball fields

[38:21] population. So and then we're also

[38:24] looking at the distribution of those

[38:25] amenities within the city. So there's a

[38:27] lot of ways we're looking at it. We just

[38:28] didn't want to bombard you tonight with

[38:30] Okay. I I I just had that other master

[38:32] plan in my mind and there were some

[38:34] things that

[38:35] >> I just wonder where we stand to date

[38:36] because like I said it's out of date.

[38:38] Yeah.

[38:39] >> The other thing was um this is an well

[38:42] no I'll say something different. Um

[38:44] we've looked at annexation and right now

[38:47] because of the way the topography of our

[38:49] city is all the new most of the new

[38:53] places are on hills which we've learned

[38:56] is not an easy place to put a park. And

[38:58] so even though like our level of service

[39:00] may decline, I don't think we have an

[39:03] like the the opportunity to put in

[39:05] another park in a usable space.

[39:08] >> So it's it's good to have open space in

[39:10] those like you know the the the

[39:13] um hills on the east side. It seems to

[39:15] be where all our annexation potential

[39:17] is, but it's not necessarily even um the

[39:21] part that's in the county like there's a

[39:22] little center park, but there's like

[39:24] there's a there's it's like stairs going

[39:27] down like you you play at one level,

[39:29] then there's grass at another level,

[39:30] then there's a sidewalk at another

[39:31] level, and it's not really very um

[39:34] enjoyable to use the space that way. So

[39:37] I kind of So in short, if you need an

[39:40] answer, Shane, I feel like we our level

[39:42] of service to maintain it for the

[39:44] foreseeable future, which is only 2035

[39:47] because I'm not going to be here in 2050

[39:48] either. I would say just maintain our

[39:51] level of service as far as this measure

[39:53] that she's provided, and like use what

[39:56] use the resources we have to make better

[39:58] use of the space we have. And if that

[40:02] helps, one of the um I um Brent and I

[40:06] have been going from park um park play

[40:10] equipment vendor to play equipment

[40:12] vendor at every time we show up at um

[40:15] Utah League of the City of Towns

[40:16] conference. And the one clue that has

[40:18] really stood out to me, somebody, it was

[40:21] a salesperson, but they said, "You need,

[40:22] we need our play equipment to look very

[40:24] different than what our school equipment

[40:26] looks like because the kids play on that

[40:28] year, you know, school, the school year,

[40:30] the slides, the swings." So, we've been

[40:33] looking at things like what would a

[40:34] climbing wall look like or what like even an arch or what would you know

[40:38] just that type of thing. So, is there

[40:40] any distinction or in your world like

[40:43] play equipment is play equipment? Yeah,

[40:45] this is more high level and that will

[40:47] come kind of at the master planning and

[40:48] design stage for

[40:49] >> Okay, so it's too soon for that. Okay,

[40:52] well I'm almost done with my questions.

[40:54] Um,

[40:56] is there any measure in your in your um

[40:59] in your industry for the cost per

[41:02] resident or cost for level of service

[41:04] like or cost per acre or anything like

[41:07] that that we can hold a standard to? We

[41:10] can do a comparison and so we can we've

[41:13] done that before. um we can look at the

[41:15] kind of national recreation and park

[41:17] standards kind of what we're seeing for

[41:18] the average and then also some regional

[41:20] like take some benchmark comparisons for

[41:22] surrounding communities. So yeah we can definitely provide that in our

[41:26] cost chapter

[41:27] >> being an accountant we always do benefit

[41:28] cost analysis. So right so every acre is

[41:32] wonderful but what does it cost our city

[41:34] okay just to maintain what we already

[41:36] have even without growing. Okay. And

[41:39] lastly on the next steps, where are we?

[41:41] This was your first um page. Where are

[41:44] we in your little next and what's our

[41:46] next steps then?

[41:47] >> Yeah. So, we just have a few little

[41:49] items to kind of finish deciding the

[41:51] city with the city staff um settling on

[41:53] that amenities, level of service, and

[41:55] some of those items and then we are

[41:57] about ready to dive into the draft plan.

[41:59] So,

[41:59] >> okay. So, you're right here.

[42:01] >> Yeah, we're in the middle of the

[42:02] process.

[42:03] >> All right. That's was my questions.

[42:05] Thank you so much. This was great

[42:07] information. Those were good. Um,

[42:10] briefly, so uh, just so I understand,

[42:15] none of the open space is included in

[42:17] this, right? The

[42:18] >> in that level of service calculation.

[42:20] >> So that would really that would really

[42:23] boost it. I mean, that probably better

[42:25] not to do that. I'm going to make

[42:26] everyone feel sad who's [laughter] not

[42:27] living here.

[42:28] >> Well, so just out of interest, I just

[42:30] did a

[42:31] >> Okay, what did you get? What we at one

[42:32] point? We've got about eight square

[42:34] miles in the city.

[42:36] >> About 20% of the city is some type of

[42:40] open space or park.

[42:41] >> Wow. And you probably

[42:42] >> which is I think pretty high.

[42:43] >> It's phenomenal.

[42:44] >> Did you include like even the schools

[42:46] like the Timberline and

[42:49] >> were they included in the other

[42:50] candidates?

[42:51] >> So those aren't even included and those

[42:52] are very in addition.

[42:54] >> Okay. Well, this is great news.

[42:56] >> You're doing well.

[42:56] >> So what I gathered from it, it was very

[42:59] helpful. Thank you. and coming to the

[43:00] event and all that you have said, I

[43:02] pretty much right along the line with

[43:05] everything you've said on the

[43:08] prioritizing what we've got and trying

[43:10] to update them because we've got so many

[43:11] needs there. The um what I gathered from

[43:14] it, correct me if I'm wrong, was kind of

[43:17] number one and number two was connecting

[43:21] trails and upgrading the playground

[43:24] equipment. So, that's what I gathered

[43:25] from it. Yeah,

[43:26] >> I hear this daily from my wife mad at me

[43:30] about the playground equipment. Yeah,

[43:32] >> but uh so I asked her to reach out to a

[43:34] lot of ladies because most of them

[43:35] wanted for kids

[43:37] >> or most of them are younger and they

[43:38] have kids and they they all say the same

[43:40] thing. They want the playground

[43:41] equipment updated.

[43:43] >> Um so that's what they all say. I've so

[43:46] I've been hearing that a lot.

[43:47] >> Yeah.

[43:48] >> Um

[43:49] the uh Yeah. Um,

[43:54] so that comes soon, right? That comes

[43:56] soon when we actually uh get into that

[43:59] specific stuff like you were saying that

[44:02] comes in the parks master plan, right?

[44:04] >> As far as

[44:05] >> what we're prioritizing.

[44:07] >> Yes. Well, that the plan will

[44:08] definitely, you know, give a list of

[44:10] priorities. Yeah, I I'm with them on the

[44:13] taking the what we've got and the large

[44:15] amount of open space and trying to like

[44:17] really care for it

[44:19] >> uh versus acquiring land for more parks.

[44:22] Maybe some land I know could potentially

[44:25] be used for other things. But if you

[44:28] find like a really great opportunity

[44:29] like what she brought up, obviously

[44:31] don't hold it back because the community

[44:33] might want it.

[44:34] >> Like a donation. This was the last

[44:36] thing. the parks I've been going to in

[44:38] Highland. This is why I tell people um

[44:41] they say, "Wait, did you want to say

[44:42] something?" You can if you want.

[44:43] >> No, you finish.

[44:44] >> Oh, I thought you uh the the um How was

[44:48] my train of thought? Oh. Oh, Jessica

[44:50] says it all the time. I think it's

[44:51] really good. People ask, "What's what

[44:52] what's the deal with all your parks?"

[44:53] Well, we're one of the rare people where

[44:55] like the mountains, the nature is our

[44:57] park. So, we we we have that as our

[44:59] park. Um, that's what I usually tell

[45:01] people when people are asking for all

[45:03] the upgrades

[45:04] >> or a rec center. You say that's what I

[45:06] say.

[45:08] >> It is true because not I mean walking a

[45:11] dirt trail I took it for granted growing

[45:14] up here but now I'm like wow this trail

[45:16] I start adding up how much it's worth

[45:18] like mentally but also financially. It's

[45:21] just so valuable. It's like our park is

[45:24] like nature. Um, so I try to get them up

[45:26] to the mountains. But anyways, I had So, when Highland or um,

[45:32] uh, Pleasant Grove build these

[45:33] magnificent parks, I mean, they're

[45:35] amazing. We go to them, I thank them for

[45:37] it, and I say, "Thank you for letting us

[45:38] come and use it." One thing just to pass

[45:41] on that I've been noticing is that

[45:43] they're generally donated by one of the

[45:45] residents. There's a big donation factor

[45:48] to it where it's the Cook Family Park.

[45:51] That's an example, and they come in. So

[45:53] anyways, just I found that very

[45:55] compelling as a way that ourselves can

[45:59] donate and create if there is something.

[46:01] It doesn't all have to come from the

[46:02] city. We can I mean they're really

[46:03] great. I don't know if you've seen them.

[46:05] Uh we can donate to these upgrades as

[46:08] well. So that's all I had. Thanks for

[46:09] everything.

[46:10] >> Thank you Shane.

[46:12] >> So I think just to clarify, so currently

[46:14] we're at that 7.2. If we maintain that, means we have to add acreage. So I

[46:21] think the question is

[46:22] >> Lisa can correct me if I'm wrong but are

[46:25] we willing to allow that

[46:28] >> it kind of build out or around 2050 to

[46:30] drop to that 6.8 or do we want to be the

[46:34] high number or somewhere in between. I

[46:37] think it just makes a difference on the

[46:39] approach from here forward.

[46:41] >> So sorry I wasn't clear um and probably

[46:42] everyone can go I'm okay with 6.8 eight

[46:45] for now given that that's still beyond

[46:47] number one of any city and I think we

[46:50] have so much to take care of but if a

[46:52] great opportunity comes obviously don't

[46:54] hold back

[46:54] >> and that's based on acres so there can

[46:56] still be improvements to some of that

[46:58] land that would make it feel like you

[47:00] added

[47:01] >> right more

[47:02] >> use usable park

[47:03] >> I'm also okay with the 6.8 I just

[47:06] getting a feel for the residents. I feel

[47:07] like they would prefer some upgrades and

[47:10] rather than more space. I will say

[47:13] though, I'm never opposed to more

[47:16] trails. So, I know that doesn't count

[47:18] with our level of service, but I do feel

[47:21] like a lot of people utilize them a lot.

[47:23] And so,

[47:26] >> yes, and I agree with Sarah.

[47:28] >> Absolutely. And given that the open

[47:30] space is not even in the seven

[47:32] calculation, I feel like we we are

[47:34] somewhat under reppresented about how

[47:36] much land as you pointed out 20% that

[47:39] the city is responsible to maintain and

[47:42] all of those things. So I feel like uh

[47:46] this re retaining what we already have

[47:49] is already understating what we do

[47:52] really have anyway. So I'm I'm in

[47:54] agreement.

[47:55] >> Yeah. And I I'll just take the

[47:57] opportunity right now since we're

[47:59] talking about trails a little bit. So

[48:01] our our city employees maintain the

[48:04] asphalt trails in the city. We really

[48:07] don't spend time uh maintaining gravel

[48:11] trails. It's it's our trails committee.

[48:14] And so if that ever goes away, that

[48:16] volunteer help and them organizing

[48:18] groups to help with that, it's it's

[48:22] going to mean more staff to be able to

[48:24] cover it. So I think anything we can do

[48:27] to support and encourage them is

[48:30] fantastic. U they've just flat done an

[48:33] awesome job with it. Occasionally like

[48:35] on a big you know once or twice a year

[48:38] project they'll say hey we need

[48:40] materials to replace a bridge or you

[48:43] know we need a gra a dump truck load of

[48:45] gravel here or there. you know, we do

[48:48] parking lots and stuff like that, but on

[48:49] the trails themselves, it's fairly

[48:51] infrequent that our staff uh is involved

[48:56] there. So,

[48:59] >> all right. So, is the direction clear to

[49:01] you?

[49:01] >> Yeah.

[49:01] it is.

[49:02] >> Yep.

[49:02] >> I still recommend you get Jessica's

[49:04] input. [snorts] Um,

[49:06] >> thank you very much.

[49:07] >> Thank you. And if someone like the

[49:10] Healey family which donated, you know,

[49:12] church space, park, road, if uh well, if

[49:16] they if families do come, obviously we

[49:18] wouldn't want to turn it down

[49:21] >> like that.

[49:22] >> No, I mean, you know, some of those open

[49:25] spaces, you know, came through

[49:27] development requirements, you know,

[49:29] PRDS, minimum 25% open space and

[49:31] different things like that. But um yeah,

[49:34] for sure if a donation comes along, it

[49:36] will be brought before the city council.

[49:38] Okay. So,

[49:41] >> all right. Thank you very much. We'll

[49:42] move on to item B in reports and

[49:45] presentations, the sculpture garden

[49:47] report by Bob Hansen. Do you have

[49:49] anything to introduce, Shane?

[49:52] >> Uh no. Um I know these guys are working

[49:55] on their plan. Uh we had a brief meeting

[49:58] on Monday just for an update and and I

[50:02] mentioned a few things uh to Bob that

[50:05] you probably should bring up tonight.

[50:07] Make sure everybody's on the same page

[50:08] and we'll just turn the time over to him

[50:10] for his report.

[50:11] >> Thank you. Bob Hansen. I'm a resident of

[50:15] American Fork. I apologize.

[50:19] [clears throat]

[50:19] >> How are their parks? Where where were

[50:22] they on this? Just kidding. [laughter]

[50:24] >> Yeah. Well, so, um, I hope that you had

[50:28] some time to look briefly over the the

[50:30] slides. It's really just kind of a nice

[50:32] update, right? Um, we're looking at

[50:35] bringing some things before the city

[50:37] council at the August 25th meeting for

[50:40] your consideration for vote. Um, but,

[50:43] uh, we did want to share with you. So,

[50:44] tonight just kind of a quick update on

[50:47] some of the design elements. um

[50:50] validating, verifying some of the

[50:52] decisions that have been made up to this

[50:54] point and then um identify those items

[50:58] specifically that we'll be bringing in

[50:59] August. Right. Um I will say that we

[51:03] have the planting plan. Yay. Uh very

[51:07] excited about this. Um this is uh this

[51:11] has been very important, but it's uh

[51:13] it's been kind of difficult to get. And

[51:17] uh we'll have this uh for you for

[51:20] consideration next month. Um and you'll

[51:23] have you know plenty of time to kind of

[51:24] look that over, but we have the plan

[51:27] itself. Um now we did want to kind of

[51:30] update you on the gazebo um element and

[51:33] so uh Tom and Gail have both agreed to

[51:36] come and share some updates to that and

[51:39] like to turn some time over to them.

[51:42] >> All right, we got some good stuff.

[51:46] kind of visual treats.

[51:47] >> Visual Yeah.

[51:50] Tom Holdman and Gail uh uh uh uh

[51:55] residents here as well. So, okay. So we

[52:00] have dove into

[52:03] Alpine and it's been wonderful to learn

[52:07] more about the history and how like what

[52:10] I heard once that we are uh we are we are the warm like by

[52:24] fires we did not start and we drink from

[52:28] wells we did not dig. big and that has

[52:31] meant a lot to me in in this research,

[52:34] but also well like we also like like do

[52:38] that for those which they'll come after

[52:40] us. And so that was our our our theme

[52:45] here too as well. And so this right here

[52:48] it shows how to show passage of

[52:54] time. You know how this

[52:59] ity will

[53:04] endure and so like we show here aer

[53:11] calendar here so like was like using

[53:13] like light how to how to tell time and

[53:18] so that shows that and that's and then I

[53:22] have

[53:24] um

[53:27] a

[53:29] acquired. Uh uh uh uh uh

[53:40] so like uh uh

[53:46] ends you know to make it work. So and

[53:49] then also on our stories and so these

[53:54] have ebbed and flowed here but though to

[53:59] explain these like do you want to

[54:01] explain how many women

[54:02] >> I'll just give you a quick overview as

[54:04] to kind of how we decided to go the

[54:06] direction that we did. The first thing

[54:08] that you'll notice is that the design

[54:09] style itself is a little bit of the

[54:11] Rockwellian

[54:13] uh narrative style and we did that for a

[54:15] few reasons. one of which is that

[54:17] particular illustrative style tends to

[54:19] immediately evoke a sense of nostalgia

[54:22] as well as a sense of safety and trust

[54:24] and community. So that's the first thing

[54:26] and if you're looking at that Rockwell

[54:27] type style um it has generally very

[54:32] important uh central figures and then it

[54:34] plays with the light and contrast quite

[54:36] a bit. And so we have that and then the

[54:38] color scheme. Um we use the whole color

[54:41] of the rainbow there, but we you have

[54:44] different types of hues within all of

[54:47] those um colors. And we decided to use

[54:49] if you wanted to look at it as seasons,

[54:51] it would be late summer kind of early

[54:53] fall feeling of those colors. So they're

[54:55] the warmer ones. And that gives the

[54:57] sense of the warmth of the community. It

[54:59] also gives that sense of, you know,

[55:01] excitement that summer brings. but also

[55:03] as it starts to wind down and you're

[55:04] going into the harvest, you're going to

[55:06] be able to benefit from all of the

[55:07] things and all of the work that you did

[55:09] before that moment. And so we chose that

[55:12] range of colors to also give that sense

[55:14] of warmth. And then we did a bit of

[55:17] research as Tom talked about, but we've

[55:18] also spoken with some of the council

[55:20] members and the heritage arts committee

[55:23] to talk about the things that were

[55:25] important. And we decided that we would

[55:26] focus on making sure that all of these

[55:29] together had a representation of men,

[55:32] women, and children. And so we took some

[55:34] of the stories that are a little more

[55:35] well-known and put those in that

[55:37] foreground, that focal point, but then

[55:39] we would surround it by other elements

[55:42] that were um maybe not as wellknown or

[55:46] elements that are a little bit vague so

[55:48] that the viewer can picture themselves

[55:51] within that. And on on top of that, we

[55:55] chose to include some of the iconic

[55:57] architecture from the history of Alpine.

[56:01] And when you look at those, they do seem

[56:02] very large, maybe like overwhelmingly

[56:05] large, but you have to remember they

[56:07] will be above you. And any artwork or

[56:09] any vision that is above you ends up

[56:11] looking smaller simply because you are

[56:13] beneath it in the perspective.

[56:16] >> Oh yeah.

[56:16] >> Yeah. There you go. They want to be able

[56:18] to see it.

[56:18] >> Well, it's like full size right here.

[56:20] Well, like helps helps so you see it,

[56:23] you know, to get that impact, right? And

[56:27] so that story of of of

[56:33] the like depression where all they got

[56:36] was an orange, but that orange though

[56:38] like for the winter time was amazing.

[56:40] And that the

[56:44] candy and just everyone

[56:47] has a beautiful explanation about how

[56:54] beautiful Alpine is, but also what will

[56:57] you do with it? You know, where like

[57:00] where does like your stewardship, how do

[57:03] you add? And so we though even talk

[57:06] about the indigenous

[57:09] like people also as well. If a picture

[57:14] is worth a thousand words then all of

[57:18] these pictures is worth a million words.

[57:21] So ultimately all of them together are

[57:23] intended to create a sense of education

[57:26] for the individual to be able to learn

[57:28] about the environment they came from but

[57:30] also to instill in them a sense of

[57:32] gratitude and appreciation for what has

[57:35] been and for what is and then ultimately

[57:38] to inspire what they can do to

[57:40] contribute. And so each of these panels

[57:42] has a title to it as well that features

[57:45] some of the values that Alpine holds

[57:47] dear. the ones that have made it what it

[57:48] is and the ones that if continued on

[57:51] will only continue to make it um more

[57:54] connected as a community, more unifying,

[57:58] more comfortable, peaceful and blessed

[58:00] place for everyone who is able to

[58:02] interact with it.

[58:04] >> Thank you.

[58:05] >> Do you have any questions?

[58:07] [applause]

[58:17] The rest of this I'm going to try to go

[58:19] quickly. Um there has been lots of

[58:22] discussion about um the sculptures and

[58:26] where they might be placed and which

[58:28] sculptures we're considering using,

[58:30] right? Um and so this uh slide attempts

[58:34] to do that. These names are names of

[58:36] sculptures. The next slide actually

[58:40] shows what those look like. Okay. Um and

[58:45] uh you probably should have broken this

[58:47] up over a couple of slides and just

[58:49] stuck them. It's a little tricky, but um

[58:52] it's going to be beautiful. Some of

[58:53] this, some of these are different sizes.

[58:56] And so, uh, while it might feel like 13

[58:59] or 14, um, is kind of a lot for the

[59:02] space that we're talking about, um,

[59:04] there's going to be some where they're

[59:07] climbing on a wall. Um, less, you know,

[59:11] kind of cluttered, um, and and stuffy

[59:14] feeling. So, um, very, uh, appropriate,

[59:19] I think. And um we've got uh FFKR

[59:23] architects that are um almost finished

[59:26] with a 3D virtual tour that incorporates

[59:30] all of this. So you really get a sense

[59:32] before it's there, right? Um yeah. And

[59:35] so if we go to that next graphic

[59:38] dashboard, um that's just kind of a

[59:40] quick at a glance what's done and where

[59:43] does everything else kind of rest. We'll go to the next slide and I just

[59:49] want to share with you that you know the

[59:50] discussion that you had about donations.

[59:53] Um I spent a lot of time with the Cook

[59:56] family and Pleasant Grove project

[59:58] specifically. Um great um ideas. Uh the

[1:00:02] former mayor of Highland uh would would

[1:00:05] meet with families and invite donations

[1:00:08] to help with different things like this.

[1:00:10] And so this is uh just for everybody's

[1:00:13] benefit um no tax dollars are going

[1:00:16] towards the creation of this park,

[1:00:18] right? It's all privately funded. Um and

[1:00:21] so that's an important thing. And right

[1:00:22] now uh 1.5 million is pending. Uh the

[1:00:27] family received a proposal um asked for

[1:00:30] a proposal. uh we asked for the amount

[1:00:33] and we asked for um them to help not

[1:00:36] only with that commitment but would they

[1:00:38] help with another 1.5 from among their

[1:00:41] network and so they've asked for a

[1:00:44] meeting next week to finalize their

[1:00:46] commitment. Um so things are moving in a

[1:00:48] very positive direction there. Um and

[1:00:51] the next slide kind of talks to some of

[1:00:54] that timeline you know where we are and

[1:00:56] where we need to go. Um our plan as of

[1:01:00] this date is uh to unveil the park, the

[1:01:04] garden um at Alpine Days this next year.

[1:01:08] Um there's a lot that has to happen and

[1:01:10] there's a lot of things that are

[1:01:11] dependent on that. Um but uh and one of

[1:01:14] those we'll we'll talk about probably

[1:01:16] here in just a moment. Um the next slide

[1:01:20] is really the one that is kind of a

[1:01:22] heads up for next month. All right. um a

[1:01:25] planting plan that you'll have an

[1:01:28] opportunity to review and comment. The

[1:01:30] irrigation that goes with it, the the

[1:01:32] sprinklers, the lighting, the gazebo

[1:01:34] design and construction, the naming

[1:01:36] opportunities has already been um

[1:01:39] approved, but uh that policy um at the

[1:01:43] time only focused on statues. Um and

[1:01:47] since we've got a gazebo, there's um

[1:01:50] other opportunities that we want to make

[1:01:52] sure that that plan um that policy makes

[1:01:55] sense. So um that's that's really our

[1:01:59] report and um

[1:02:02] very excited and delighted about how

[1:02:03] things are progressing.

[1:02:07] Thank you very much. Do you want to

[1:02:08] entertain questions? You have any

[1:02:10] questions or thoughts much?

[1:02:13] >> No. Um, it's just I think it's very

[1:02:16] beautiful and this will be a great thing

[1:02:18] for our community to have and so I'm

[1:02:21] grateful. Thank you for all your work

[1:02:22] you've done on this.

[1:02:25] Um, as you know, I've been with with uh

[1:02:29] with them from the beginning. So, I

[1:02:31] would you mind going back to page six,

[1:02:33] Kaden?

[1:02:35] Um, this has really evolved. It's so

[1:02:38] exciting to see our own resident who um

[1:02:41] has so much artistic skill lend his his imagination to what can be. And um

[1:02:49] this particular garden space has evolved

[1:02:52] over time. But one point I just want to

[1:02:54] make while we're all sitting in this

[1:02:55] room is um per my request and they've honored it is that we're going

[1:03:00] to have something to look out through

[1:03:02] this window.

[1:03:02] >> Yes. So that we're not in the winter or

[1:03:05] maybe for those that don't wander out to

[1:03:07] the park or just come to visit Alpine

[1:03:09] like they can actually see some of the

[1:03:12] sculpture garden right from the inside

[1:03:13] of these council chambers. And then also

[1:03:16] when we were designing the um civic

[1:03:19] center so sorry the fountain lines up I

[1:03:22] believe after talking to the landscape

[1:03:24] designer. So one right there one and

[1:03:26] four line up with this window. I I'm

[1:03:28] pretty sure that's what we really close

[1:03:31] to that at least. And then the number

[1:03:33] nine right there, you can see there's a

[1:03:35] pathway directly from the civic

[1:03:37] building. So there is a a door, right,

[1:03:40] Shane, that stayed in the plan.

[1:03:42] >> Yes.

[1:03:43] >> Oh, good. Okay. Anyways, so that as we

[1:03:46] gather as a community in that new part

[1:03:48] of our fire station that there is a

[1:03:51] direct access into the sculpture garden.

[1:03:54] And um so those are the two things that

[1:03:57] I wanted to share that um were important

[1:04:00] just because we want this to be all

[1:04:02] seasons, all all ability, you know, just

[1:04:05] if that's our seniors in there, they um

[1:04:07] have access to the gardens and stuff

[1:04:09] like that. So that was part of it.

[1:04:12] >> You know, the the one thing that I

[1:04:14] probably should mention that that we

[1:04:16] discussed on Monday, um there is uh uh

[1:04:19] some addendum slides to this. Um if you

[1:04:23] go to

[1:04:25] let's see

[1:04:28] okay so right here it shows uh the

[1:04:32] shrubs right that are going to be taken

[1:04:35] out in black. You keep going down

[1:04:40] that purple shows the trees. This is where I want to kind of pause

[1:04:45] for a moment. Um this has already gone

[1:04:48] through um the planning commission. it

[1:04:51] came back and was approved by the city

[1:04:53] council, but um I know that there has

[1:04:56] been some concern about the three trees

[1:05:00] that are currently out here in in this

[1:05:02] circular area. Um and um you know uh our goal, our wish is um while we we

[1:05:12] really don't want to disrupt things that

[1:05:15] don't need to be disrupted, uh if those

[1:05:18] trees stay there, we have to kind of go

[1:05:20] back to the drawing board with the

[1:05:22] design elements because of the gazebo.

[1:05:25] Okay? If it weren't for the gazebo,

[1:05:29] um then maybe we could be a little more

[1:05:32] flexible. but that has emerged to be a

[1:05:36] quite a crucial element to this project

[1:05:39] that I think would be a travesty to to

[1:05:41] lose. So, um I just wanted to make sure

[1:05:45] that that was kind of well understood.

[1:05:47] >> Okay.

[1:05:48] >> And and I wanted to make sure the

[1:05:49] council understands that 25 plus year

[1:05:52] old trees would go like the way it was

[1:05:55] described to us yesterday. It basically

[1:05:58] would wipe the slate clean. everything

[1:06:00] that's there would go. So, there's a red uh a Canada red choke

[1:06:07] cherry tree right here that we saved

[1:06:11] with the fire station project that would

[1:06:13] go the three big trees by this circular

[1:06:16] concrete. And they're they're probably

[1:06:19] 15 18 inch

[1:06:22] uh caliper trees. And it takes a long

[1:06:25] time to get shade. And a lot of people

[1:06:28] go sit under those trees during the day.

[1:06:31] So

[1:06:32] >> yeah, they would have to sit under the

[1:06:33] gazebo,

[1:06:36] » which it's it's up to council, but I

[1:06:39] want to make it very very clear what

[1:06:42] this particular plan would do to the to

[1:06:45] the existing landscape.

[1:06:48] Um, I think taking the bushes and stuff

[1:06:51] out make will make things look better.

[1:06:55] Uh, I don't know if you knew, we had to

[1:06:57] take some bushes out between the rally

[1:06:59] call and the fire station parking lot.

[1:07:02] >> It totally changed the look out there. I

[1:07:04] think it looks 100 times better with

[1:07:06] those gone, but I think the loss of the

[1:07:10] trees might not have the same effect,

[1:07:13] but it's it's a council decision on

[1:07:15] that.

[1:07:17] >> And when is that decision to be made? I

[1:07:20] think it needs to be very soon because

[1:07:22] these guys are moving forward with a

[1:07:24] plan. Um

[1:07:26] >> and to be clear, the decision was

[1:07:28] already made. This would have to go back

[1:07:30] and change that from the um planning

[1:07:33] commission.

[1:07:34] >> I don't know if it was specifically said

[1:07:36] that these big trees would be taken out.

[1:07:39] There was a plan.

[1:07:40] >> This was the slide that was

[1:07:41] >> there was a slide, but was it

[1:07:42] specifically mentioned and made very

[1:07:44] clear? I I don't remember if it was.

[1:07:48] >> Well, what was made clear? They we

[1:07:50] outlined the entire space and said this

[1:07:52] is yours to design. So we didn't point

[1:07:55] out keep this, keep that. So maybe that

[1:07:58] was

[1:07:59] >> Yeah. not clear to everybody because we

[1:08:01] didn't say one way or the other, but it

[1:08:03] was

[1:08:03] >> Yeah.

[1:08:04] >> It was a complete like blackout of the

[1:08:06] space.

[1:08:07] >> So at one time we were considering the

[1:08:09] driveway going into the fire station

[1:08:11] coming from Center Street. And the

[1:08:13] discussion then is if that happened that

[1:08:15] we need to plan around the trees and so

[1:08:19] That was

[1:08:19] >> anyway

[1:08:21] wondered if it was something that was

[1:08:22] overlooked or I basically I want to make

[1:08:25] sure you guys understand.

[1:08:28] >> Well, I'll I'll just

[1:08:31] >> Wait, have you as Andrew?

[1:08:33] >> Oh, you can keep discussing this. I'll

[1:08:34] just I'll just share my thoughts in

[1:08:36] general. I I agree with what Chrissy and

[1:08:38] Sarah said. This is beautiful. It's

[1:08:39] amazing. You're talented. I wish I had a

[1:08:41] centilla of your talent. Um

[1:08:45] this is this is awesome. I I really

[1:08:46] think this is going to be a huge

[1:08:47] improvement. You know, you say that

[1:08:49] people come and use a shade. That's

[1:08:51] great. We have a park across the street.

[1:08:53] Um I think this is a very underutilized

[1:08:56] part of our city center, city block, and

[1:08:59] if we can have this in conjunction with

[1:09:01] our beautiful new fire station and

[1:09:03] community center, I think this would add

[1:09:05] tremendously to the value of this area

[1:09:07] for our Alpine residents. So, I'd be

[1:09:10] okay with with um getting rid of those

[1:09:12] trees to have this be a more useful,

[1:09:15] beautiful area for Alpine to enjoy.

[1:09:18] >> Would it be possible to go back to the

[1:09:20] slide that has like the landscape plan

[1:09:22] because I believe that there were some

[1:09:24] other additional trees?

[1:09:26] >> Yeah.

[1:09:27] >> Okay. So, all around the east and south

[1:09:30] side would all be new trees.

[1:09:31] >> Yeah.

[1:09:32] >> And does it give any indication as what

[1:09:35] type of trees those would be?

[1:09:36] >> They are. Um it it's hard to see but

[1:09:39] there is that planting plan.

[1:09:42] >> It's like on the second slide right

[1:09:43] there

[1:09:45] minuscu Sorry about that because because

[1:09:47] we weren't seeking approval tonight um I

[1:09:50] didn't make it super clear there but um

[1:09:54] I could send a PDF that has lots of

[1:09:57] detail that goes with that. Um, I I

[1:10:00] guess my conclusion with regards to the

[1:10:02] trees is

[1:10:03] >> if you're replacing three trees with

[1:10:07] uh 14 um um obviously they're going to

[1:10:12] be younger trees. They're not going to

[1:10:13] be as big as these. They're not going to

[1:10:15] provide as much shade, but I feel like

[1:10:17] there's a tradeoff there. And so I hate

[1:10:21] to see good mature trees go, but um I'd

[1:10:24] be okay with removing the trees. And

[1:10:27] there are, to be clear, there are more

[1:10:29] than three.

[1:10:30] >> There are more than three.

[1:10:31] >> Yeah.

[1:10:31] >> I'll have to walk out there, I think,

[1:10:33] before I give a final decision then. But

[1:10:41] » yeah, I hate to lose trees, too. I I I

[1:10:43] feel your pain, Shane. I do. I really

[1:10:45] do. But on the other hand, I do feel

[1:10:47] like we are gaining. It's like like

[1:10:50] everything, there's always a tradeoff.

[1:10:52] So, um, we would gain some trees in

[1:10:56] exchange and also the the people that

[1:11:00] are using the shade, we welcome them

[1:11:02] back, but we're we hope to get like 10

[1:11:04] times the number, maybe 50 times the

[1:11:06] number of people accessing this space

[1:11:09] because of the additional features. So,

[1:11:12] to me that you always sometimes to take

[1:11:14] a step forward, you have to take a

[1:11:16] little step back. So, I'm I'm okay with

[1:11:18] it. I'm sad, too. But I think that's the

[1:11:21] right thing to do.

[1:11:23] Uh,

[1:11:26] [snorts]

[1:11:28] Confucious, he said like the the best

[1:11:32] time to plant a tree is

[1:11:35] 20 years ago. And

[1:11:38] today,

[1:11:47] Can you talk that?

[1:11:48] >> No.

[1:11:50] I never have talked to Tom. You

[1:11:51] know, he was my first boss, right?

[1:11:53] >> He was my first boss. My first job after

[1:11:56] my mission is really thankful for Tom

[1:11:59] and everything. Thank you. This is

[1:12:01] amazing. You've really done done a lot.

[1:12:03] Um this will really be nice for Alpine,

[1:12:06] for like the city and the community.

[1:12:09] It'll be really be nice. Um really

[1:12:12] prayerful. Hopefully this comes exactly

[1:12:13] as you're envisioning. Thanks for

[1:12:15] putting in the history stuff that that

[1:12:18] Thank you. Thank you.

[1:12:19] >> Well, I was a stick in the mud. Sorry.

[1:12:22] >> It was the right thing for us.

[1:12:24] >> Yeah. Thank you. It's so good. And

[1:12:26] that'll help our kids kids, you know,

[1:12:28] having we'll be able to preserve the

[1:12:31] identity through your artwork. That's

[1:12:32] like the vehicle that lasts forever. So,

[1:12:34] thank you. Um the trees, I I didn't know

[1:12:38] about that. Can't Can't we just build

[1:12:40] the Well, maybe we build the uh the um

[1:12:44] gazebo out of the trees.

[1:12:46] >> Oh,

[1:12:48] uh I would love to figure out a way to

[1:12:50] use

[1:12:51] >> I don't know. I don't know.

[1:12:52] >> I would love to.

[1:12:52] >> I'll go check them out. I'll ask the

[1:12:54] neighbors. They they didn't bring that

[1:12:55] up when we when I surveyed them around

[1:12:57] here. You've addressed what they've

[1:12:58] brought up. So, thank you. They had

[1:13:00] specifics. You've done it and Tom has

[1:13:03] done it. So, thank you. Uh that's that's

[1:13:05] all. I just have one change, but I'll

[1:13:06] text it to you. Or do you want me to

[1:13:08] tell you?

[1:13:09] >> No.

[1:13:10] >> Okay. It's so small. It's just one word.

[1:13:14] >> Well, you know, on uh John Moy, and it's

[1:13:18] so funny. We bring up documents at city

[1:13:20] council and he's the guy that signed

[1:13:21] them. So, we we like go all the way back

[1:13:23] there to see the contracts he made, like

[1:13:25] our water contract. He's got his

[1:13:27] signature on. It's so crazy. Yeah.

[1:13:30] That's going to go that's going to

[1:13:31] preserve it. Um maybe rather than

[1:13:34] relentless, just faith.

[1:13:37] That's all I got. Think it over. You're

[1:13:38] the You're the boss still. So much.

[1:13:44] » Thank you for making the oranges bigger

[1:13:46] as well. Thank you very much, Bob.

[1:13:47] >> Can I bring one more thing up? Just

[1:13:49] something.

[1:13:50] >> Can you bring the time the timeline

[1:13:52] slide up?

[1:13:58] So the only uh other concern other than

[1:14:01] I I asked Bob to get with Troy on uh

[1:14:05] just irrigation and because sometimes

[1:14:07] you know they want certain valves and

[1:14:09] different things. So I know he's working

[1:14:12] towards that. Um, looking at the

[1:14:14] timeline, one concern I have is October

[1:14:18] 26 site prep, site prep and excavation,

[1:14:23] but

[1:14:25] I don't know how the council feels if

[1:14:26] the money is not committed at that time.

[1:14:29] Um, tearing into the project and not

[1:14:31] having the funds lined up. It's a

[1:14:33] concern for me, but if it's not for you,

[1:14:36] then we roll with that.

[1:14:38] >> That's a valid concern. Bob, you want to

[1:14:40] address that?

[1:14:40] >> Yeah. So, I've, you know, in in 40

[1:14:43] years, I just have my fundraising

[1:14:46] experience, whether it was a $600

[1:14:48] million hospital at Ohio State. Um, they

[1:14:52] started before they had all the money

[1:14:53] committed. Um, at Utah Valley

[1:14:56] University, I was responsible for the

[1:14:58] science building. We started that

[1:15:00] project before we had all the money

[1:15:02] committed. Um, so there is precedent for

[1:15:05] this. Um there there you know this is a formal campaign um and there

[1:15:12] are elements that need to be done. We

[1:15:14] don't count the money until it's been

[1:15:16] documented uh with gift agreements.

[1:15:20] Um and those are as good as anything to

[1:15:22] a bank right to everybody. Um they're uh

[1:15:26] they're legal documents. Um and so um

[1:15:30] you know uh I I

[1:15:32] >> Bob is the total 4.5. 4.5

[1:15:35] >> and you've got 1.5 that is uh uh

[1:15:38] >> that is pending.

[1:15:39] >> Pending.

[1:15:40] >> Yeah. And so it's not it's not been

[1:15:41] counted. It's not a commitment, but it's

[1:15:44] quite close.

[1:15:45] >> That's good.

[1:15:46] >> Yeah.

[1:15:46] >> I say they're on a good track. um that I

[1:15:49] will also say is the hosted gatherings

[1:15:51] that we'll be doing from uh the

[1:15:54] beginning of September until the end of

[1:15:56] December uh will raise somewhere around

[1:15:59] 90% of all the money um in those those

[1:16:03] few months. Um and so that doesn't mean

[1:16:06] that we will have all of it in hand.

[1:16:09] Some people will make multi-year

[1:16:11] commitments. Um and so pledges are

[1:16:13] things that we work with as well. Um and

[1:16:16] so it it is it is typical. Um and you

[1:16:20] know most of what's happening will take

[1:16:23] place after the new year. Um and we

[1:16:26] should have uh all but very smaller you

[1:16:30] know small gifts that will be coming in

[1:16:32] from the general public at that point in

[1:16:35] time. So it'll be an accelerated

[1:16:37] campaign. Um, and uh, yeah, I I I could

[1:16:42] bring lots of research and trends and

[1:16:46] anything that might be helpful in August

[1:16:48] to help kind of address that if that's

[1:16:50] helpful.

[1:16:52] >> The analogy I use is having a brand new

[1:16:54] house and not having landscaping for a

[1:16:56] few years. You deal with dust and mud

[1:16:59] and whatever. But I'm not I mean in my

[1:17:01] mind it doesn't mean every single statue

[1:17:04] is there, but I think all the basic

[1:17:08] everything. I I would recommend that the

[1:17:11] funding be there for that so you don't

[1:17:14] have a Brandy community center and dirt

[1:17:18] from there to city hall to deal with for

[1:17:22] whatever period of time it takes to

[1:17:24] raise the funds. So, so yeah, and to

[1:17:27] that point, October is just clearing the

[1:17:29] slate. Um, all of the other work takes

[1:17:32] place in the spring and summer.

[1:17:35] >> Is there a way to ask for um your

[1:17:37] landscape designer to provide a phasing

[1:17:39] to address Shane's concern? Like what

[1:17:43] would be phase one paid for? Like if we

[1:17:45] got three million and then you know what

[1:17:47] I'm saying? Like what he's saying? Could

[1:17:49] we put in all the hardcape per se

[1:17:51] walkways and sprinkler systems? You know

[1:17:54] what I'm saying? That would be phase one

[1:17:57] like as far as fund like getting

[1:18:00] >> because I know there's a scope and

[1:18:01] sequence when you install landscaping.

[1:18:03] >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know and it is it is

[1:18:07] you know there is a degree of

[1:18:08] flexibility. You know I there's there's

[1:18:10] a lot that you can bank on but we are

[1:18:13] asking for voluntary donations too. Um

[1:18:16] and so it's not the same process that

[1:18:19] you go through when you have money

[1:18:21] that's been budgeted for this. Right. Um

[1:18:24] so we can accelerate this or slow it

[1:18:28] down. Um and you know if it would help

[1:18:32] there could be certain fundraising

[1:18:35] benchmarks that communic that gets

[1:18:37] communicated to you in our regular

[1:18:39] updates that you say okay release the

[1:18:42] Kraken for this right I mean go get that

[1:18:44] done now. Um, I just didn't know if

[1:18:47] that's something that you wanted to

[1:18:48] manage.

[1:18:50] But we could do that with staff.

[1:18:52] >> It just made me nervous. There was a

[1:18:53] suggestion when the equipment hit the

[1:18:57] fire station to try to get the same

[1:19:00] contractor to, you know, demo this area

[1:19:03] then. And I'm like,

[1:19:06] it to me that's not a good plan.

[1:19:09] Um, I I think the basic stuff should be

[1:19:12] in there, but again, it's the council's

[1:19:15] decision. If you say move forward

[1:19:17] without the commitments for all the

[1:19:19] funding to make this happen, that's the council's decision.

[1:19:23] >> So, what are the drawbacks to you in

[1:19:25] delaying until you have the funding, the

[1:19:27] fundraising at least substantially

[1:19:30] completed to at least address the

[1:19:31] landscaping?

[1:19:33] >> Um, well, the landscaping will be a big

[1:19:36] part to this. We're essentially creating

[1:19:38] an outdoor gallery, right? So, it's not

[1:19:42] a small piece. It's not just clearing

[1:19:44] and putting grass. Um there's there's

[1:19:47] rocks, there's walls, you know, there's stone walkways. Um there's a

[1:19:53] variety of things that are not going to

[1:19:55] be inexpensive

[1:19:57] um by design because we want them to

[1:20:00] last.

[1:20:02] So, but I I think that there could be

[1:20:05] easily a mechanism that is put together

[1:20:09] that says, you know, once the funding

[1:20:11] reaches a critical mass that, you know,

[1:20:14] is is where you have uh license to to

[1:20:19] move into this particular stage, right?

[1:20:22] Um I I wouldn't suggest doing anything

[1:20:25] um if in October we have no money. This

[1:20:29] is donor driven. It has to be. Um, and

[1:20:34] that's the way that we're approaching

[1:20:35] it. But, uh, this is not by far the most

[1:20:39] difficult campaign I've ever had.

[1:20:42] >> I I like Chrissy's idea of perhaps

[1:20:44] having it in phases and once we've

[1:20:47] reached the the donated amount to cover

[1:20:50] phase one, then we go ahead with phase

[1:20:52] one. And

[1:20:53] >> yeah,

[1:20:53] >> if we could chunk it like that, to me

[1:20:55] that makes more sense. Um, my second

[1:20:57] question is how long does the site prep

[1:21:00] slash excavation take? Because if it

[1:21:03] doesn't take that long, I don't I don't

[1:21:06] know. To me, it doesn't seem like it

[1:21:08] would make that big of a difference if

[1:21:09] we waited till after we have the funds.

[1:21:12] >> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's just really to

[1:21:14] kind of get the ground ready for all the

[1:21:16] work that happens in the spring before

[1:21:18] snow comes and hopefully there will be

[1:21:20] snow.

[1:21:23] So, so that's all it is. It's just

[1:21:25] preparing the ground so that in the

[1:21:28] spring they can hit the ground running.

[1:21:31] I know you have a target date of alpine

[1:21:33] days next year. Um

[1:21:38] I for me I I think it I I I appreciate

[1:21:41] Shane's thought of making sure that

[1:21:44] we're not going to have a partially

[1:21:45] completed project and then it's

[1:21:46] abandoned.

[1:21:47] >> Um taking out these mature trees and

[1:21:49] these other things. I would prefer to

[1:21:51] wait um and make sure you have the

[1:21:54] funding at least to a comfort level that

[1:21:56] we feel good about before we commit and

[1:22:00] maybe having to put off the opening past

[1:22:02] alpine days which which would be fine.

[1:22:04] >> Yeah.

[1:22:07] >> And with all that we're not trying to

[1:22:09] shed any kind of negative light. We're

[1:22:10] just trying to bring up the issues that

[1:22:12] we as we see them to the council.

[1:22:14] >> Let's let's say the fundraising goes

[1:22:16] splendidly well and we're ready to do

[1:22:18] this in October. How would this timeline

[1:22:20] affect what's going on with the fire

[1:22:22] station remodel?

[1:22:23] >> Uh, so they'll have the parking lots

[1:22:28] complete. I believe the schedule had

[1:22:30] like mid October.

[1:22:32] I don't really see it affecting

[1:22:34] >> Okay.

[1:22:35] >> They probably won't be able to access

[1:22:37] through there. We'd probably have to

[1:22:38] come from the center street side. Just

[1:22:40] warranties and different things.

[1:22:42] Wouldn't want to get into any issues

[1:22:44] there, but all that could be worked

[1:22:46] through.

[1:22:49] Anything else?

[1:22:53] >> All right. Thank you, sir.

[1:22:56] >> All right. We appreciate that. Looks

[1:22:57] beautiful. Let's move on to reports and

[1:23:00] presentations. Item C, Utah growing

[1:23:03] water smart workshop report. Council

[1:23:05] members Hanaman and Blackwell.

[1:23:08] >> Also, I will just say that um Steve

[1:23:10] Burroughs and Jason Jud will also be

[1:23:12] helping with this presentation.

[1:23:15] >> Okay.

[1:23:18] I'm Steve Burles. I'm going to kick it

[1:23:20] off. The heavy lifting will be done by

[1:23:22] our two council women and and Jason to

[1:23:25] give you a sense in the first three days

[1:23:27] of June. Um, six representatives of

[1:23:32] Alpine, two council women, a uh, three

[1:23:35] staff and myself attended a a conference

[1:23:39] in Hebrew City that was sponsored by the

[1:23:41] Utah Division of National Res Natural

[1:23:43] Resources, the uh, Central Utah Water

[1:23:46] Conservancy District, USU, Utah League

[1:23:49] of

[1:23:51] Counties, and the Babbot Center for Land

[1:23:53] Water Policy. Over a 3-day period, we

[1:23:57] were together for about 22 hours. Over

[1:24:01] nine of those hours, over 40% was this

[1:24:04] team, our alpine team of six people

[1:24:09] um were in dialogue facilitated by a

[1:24:14] couple very expert facilitators to help

[1:24:17] us create a water plan that you'll be

[1:24:21] given more detail in just a minute. I

[1:24:23] think that one thing to remember is

[1:24:26] this. Of all the seven um cities, there

[1:24:30] were only four uh council people. There

[1:24:33] were 45 attendees, only four council

[1:24:36] people. Two of them were from our city.

[1:24:39] There was a mayor that attended. Uh

[1:24:42] there was only one resident, yours

[1:24:44] truly. Okay. I think the the importance

[1:24:47] of that is the discussion was robust

[1:24:51] rather. We are diverse in our

[1:24:54] backgrounds. We're diverse in our

[1:24:55] responsibilities. I'd like to see an

[1:24:58] analogy of a stool, three-legged stool,

[1:25:01] I think, for the success of most things.

[1:25:04] Three three components make a

[1:25:05] difference. We had the city staff, we

[1:25:08] had the council, and then we had a

[1:25:10] resident, too. So, th those voices were

[1:25:13] very open and important.

[1:25:16] Um, we were willing to share our

[1:25:18] experiences. You learned a lot from each

[1:25:20] other. They're very healthy, deep

[1:25:22] discussions. Uh, you know, you consider

[1:25:25] the personalities. We've got Jason, Jud,

[1:25:28] we've got Shellyley, uh, Slate, James,

[1:25:31] Saleo, myself, and and Sarah, and

[1:25:33] Chrissy. So, things were covered and

[1:25:36] covered deeply, which was good. All

[1:25:39] right. Um, let's go ahead and go to this

[1:25:43] first slide, that one. The vision. This

[1:25:46] is important. The words are important.

[1:25:48] We debated for two hours um on some of

[1:25:52] the words the last day. What's important

[1:25:54] here is the word self-sufficient.

[1:25:57] Okay. Other way of looking at it is

[1:25:59] living within our means. When it comes

[1:26:02] to water, there are no more water

[1:26:04] sources. We we're tapping them. It comes

[1:26:07] from the sky. It comes from the ground.

[1:26:09] You don't make water. Okay. So going

[1:26:12] forward and I was impressed with for

[1:26:14] example the central Utah water

[1:26:16] conservancy district they're planning

[1:26:18] for 2100

[1:26:21] okay the what we're talking about and

[1:26:24] what this plan emphasizes is the need to

[1:26:26] continue our planning and continuous

[1:26:29] planning and based on the the situations

[1:26:32] we're forced to deal with especially

[1:26:34] with mother nature.

[1:26:36] The importance is that we can achieve

[1:26:38] this vision through a very collaborative

[1:26:42] teamwork. This is heavy lifting. We're

[1:26:44] going to need all three legs of that

[1:26:46] stool to work together to make sure it's

[1:26:48] done well. And we're going to need some

[1:26:50] resilient long-term strategies. We'll do

[1:26:54] best thinking. We'll re we'll look at it

[1:26:57] again. We may use scenario planning type

[1:26:59] uh strata uh strategy development to

[1:27:02] develop strategies but on occasion we're

[1:27:04] going to revise them and we're going to

[1:27:06] have to be resilient. Okay, next slide

[1:27:08] please.

[1:27:11] Okay, here we get uh into some specifics

[1:27:13] more in a broad sense. It's important to

[1:27:16] that I I came away with an importance

[1:27:18] land issues and water issues are not

[1:27:21] different. They're the same. When we

[1:27:23] consider the use of land, we're also by

[1:27:26] default considering the use of water.

[1:27:29] The need to continuously plan. The

[1:27:32] Central Utah Water Conservancy District

[1:27:34] inferred that our negotiated allocations

[1:27:38] may change. And as you read about the uh Colorado River and realize that

[1:27:44] 63% of all the water the Wasatch Front

[1:27:47] uses is from the Colorado River. Those

[1:27:50] levels are only going one direction

[1:27:52] right now. Okay. Some of the proposed

[1:27:55] strategies that you'll hear about are

[1:27:58] literally our negotiations with a

[1:28:00] neighbor Lehi and with the Central Utah

[1:28:03] Water Conservancy District about what

[1:28:05] should our portion be? Are there any

[1:28:07] tradeoffs? Um, we need continued uh

[1:28:12] public water conservation outreach.

[1:28:15] Little by little, pulling all the levers

[1:28:17] of enforcement and rate structures and

[1:28:20] education will help us be more

[1:28:23] self-sufficient. Living within our means

[1:28:25] of the water we have, the importance of

[1:28:28] a long-term plan. You know, if they're

[1:28:30] planning for 2100, we can plan for

[1:28:33] 20 years, 10 years certainly, and keep

[1:28:36] reviewing that plan. We need a city

[1:28:40] drought preparedness plan with specific

[1:28:42] triggers. So if next year or the

[1:28:44] following year the drought becomes

[1:28:46] something that we didn't expect, we have

[1:28:48] abilities to pull these levers so that

[1:28:50] once again we can live within our means

[1:28:52] and be self-sufficient.

[1:28:55] Uh we I know we're looking at a rate um

[1:28:58] structure. Um certainly the need for a

[1:29:01] conservation ba based rate structure

[1:29:04] will be important and over time there

[1:29:06] will be innovations such as the the

[1:29:09] technology associated with uh um

[1:29:13] irrigation clocks and etc. Next slide.

[1:29:17] This was this is a picture that we're

[1:29:19] accustomed to as it's looked this way

[1:29:22] since May. Um, we're in an extreme

[1:29:27] we're in extreme extraordinary drought

[1:29:30] rather and our reservoir levels which is

[1:29:33] our savings account. The the water that

[1:29:36] comes down from the mountains is our

[1:29:38] checking account and when that's not

[1:29:39] there we depend on our reservoirs as far

[1:29:42] away as Strawberry Reservoir. Um we as

[1:29:47] of the 20th of this month the average

[1:29:51] capacity across the the state was 35%

[1:29:55] last year was 47%.

[1:29:58] Merely to emphasize this is a real

[1:30:00] issue. It's not changing uh much more

[1:30:03] than looking less uh uh favorable.

[1:30:09] I think we're finding over time that is

[1:30:11] our residents can understand how

[1:30:13] important the annual snowpack is and

[1:30:15] that really determines the sources we

[1:30:17] have. The as you know the spring runoff

[1:30:21] is the primary source of our uh pressure

[1:30:24] irrigation water. the the spring snow

[1:30:27] runoff and it goes feeds into our

[1:30:31] aquifers which feeds our natural springs

[1:30:35] which become our source of culinary

[1:30:36] water and certainly the feed the

[1:30:39] existing and potential new wells coming

[1:30:41] up.

[1:30:43] Let's go to the next one. Okay. Um

[1:30:47] looking at looking at what go one just

[1:30:50] before that please. Okay. So thus far

[1:30:53] this year, so in 80 85 days in 33 35% of

[1:30:58] the time period between the 15th and of

[1:31:00] April and the 15th of October, we're

[1:31:03] down for with our pressure irrigation

[1:31:06] usage by 11.75

[1:31:09] 12%. We're down in our culinary usage by

[1:31:12] almost 5.5%.

[1:31:14] The word is getting out. Members, people

[1:31:17] whether it be a users, schools,

[1:31:20] churches, and especially residents are

[1:31:23] understanding they make a difference.

[1:31:27] Um, let's go to the next slide.

[1:31:30] We're going to jump right to that's the

[1:31:32] detail. Go to the next slide, please.

[1:31:35] What's important here is that our

[1:31:37] average temperature is much higher

[1:31:40] um than normal this year. almost five degrees higher than normal normal

[1:31:48] when compared to last year which was

[1:31:50] almost four degrees higher. The average

[1:31:53] participation is lower than normal in

[1:31:56] both years and when you compare them we

[1:31:59] had a little more rain and we had almost

[1:32:01] three inches during this period in 25

[1:32:04] and um a little less than two in 26.

[1:32:10] Let's go next and that may be it. Yes.

[1:32:13] So, as the chair of the citizens

[1:32:16] advisory committee for water, I

[1:32:18] appreciate uh those on the committee.

[1:32:20] Sarah is our lead. Um we have um Jeff uh

[1:32:26] Davis, who is a and I'm learning

[1:32:28] hydrogeeologist,

[1:32:31] which means he's really smart when it

[1:32:33] comes to water. And we appreciate Will

[1:32:36] and and Brian. We have two others, Clyde

[1:32:40] and uh Sullivan. uh it makes a

[1:32:42] difference and we this this conference

[1:32:45] was very eye- openening for me. I I went

[1:32:48] through a lot of learning curve I

[1:32:50] especially saw the power of

[1:32:52] collaborative discussion the the setting

[1:32:56] the facilitators created a setting where

[1:32:58] it was very open. We could express our

[1:33:01] concerns. We could s uh express our

[1:33:04] thoughts. We could get to agreements.

[1:33:07] And this is what you're going to see now

[1:33:09] as it pertains to what we're proposing.

[1:33:12] >> Thank you, Steve. Um I'll explain our

[1:33:15] goal um goal number one next. But before

[1:33:17] I do that, I just wanted to share one

[1:33:19] thing. Um this was in an article that

[1:33:21] actually Steve sent to me about kind of

[1:33:23] like the the Utah heritage, the pioneer

[1:33:25] spirit. And I just thought this was a

[1:33:28] great quote. They're talking about, you

[1:33:29] know, when the pioneers first came to

[1:33:31] Utah said they were supposed to work

[1:33:33] hard to sacrifice for the good of

[1:33:34] others. They believe that welfare was

[1:33:36] fundamentally a neighbor-to- neighbor

[1:33:38] responsibility rather than a

[1:33:39] responsibility for government. And I

[1:33:41] just really like that because I feel

[1:33:43] like, you know, in this drought year, it

[1:33:45] takes all of us. I mean, we can we can

[1:33:48] adjust traits, we can do all the things,

[1:33:51] but ultimately it just comes down to us

[1:33:53] being good neighbors and living in a

[1:33:56] community and looking out for each

[1:33:57] other. And um this goal of becoming

[1:34:00] self-sufficient isn't just going to be

[1:34:03] one person. is going to take all of

[1:34:04] Alpine. And so I I've really enjoyed

[1:34:07] being on this committee because I feel

[1:34:08] like there's so much collaboration and

[1:34:10] going to this conference was really

[1:34:12] great. Um lots of really great data and

[1:34:14] resources, but also a lot of

[1:34:16] collaboration. Like Steve said, we spent

[1:34:18] a lot of time developing like what's our

[1:34:21] vision for Alpine and what are our

[1:34:23] goals? And we came up with three goals.

[1:34:25] And my I am what they called um champion

[1:34:30] of one of the goals. And then um

[1:34:32] Councilwoman Henman is a champion for

[1:34:34] one and Jason is champion for the other.

[1:34:36] So I'm just going to stop talk about

[1:34:39] goal one which is the one that um I am

[1:34:42] champion over. Um, I guess it just makes

[1:34:44] sure that just essentially means I help

[1:34:47] facilitate and make sure that everything

[1:34:50] on on these action plans move forward,

[1:34:52] which you know brainstorming is great,

[1:34:55] but then having action items and

[1:34:58] actionable items is is even better. So,

[1:35:01] I loved that we did this. So,

[1:35:03] essentially this goal is to unify Alpine

[1:35:05] stakeholders um through communication

[1:35:07] and education to support the vision. So,

[1:35:10] it's not just the residents, it's not

[1:35:12] just the city staff. We have the Alpine

[1:35:14] Irrigation Company. We have, you know,

[1:35:16] the Forest Service borders our city. We

[1:35:19] also have um, you know, Central Utah

[1:35:22] Water. Um, we also, you know, Lehi uses

[1:35:26] some of the water that surrounds our

[1:35:29] city or is in within our city. So, it's

[1:35:31] working collaboratively with all of

[1:35:32] those all of our neighbors for to help

[1:35:35] us become more self-sufficient as well

[1:35:38] as to see how we can help others become

[1:35:41] more self-sufficient. So, part of the um

[1:35:44] and I apologize if there are errors on

[1:35:46] these slides. It is my fault. It's not

[1:35:49] Councilwoman Hannah's or Steve's or

[1:35:51] anyone else's. Um, so some of these

[1:35:54] action steps that we took with goal one

[1:35:56] was obviously it's going to require a

[1:35:59] lot of collaboration and a lot of

[1:36:00] communication. So that would include

[1:36:02] with city staff, irrigation company, um,

[1:36:05] elected appointed officials, um, and

[1:36:08] others as needed. So that might also

[1:36:10] mean Lehi city or the county

[1:36:12] landscapers.

[1:36:14] Um, so we put deadlines to each of these

[1:36:17] goals and we developed um or assigned a lead person to kind of make sure that

[1:36:23] they are followed up with. Um, another

[1:36:26] action step is just make sure that we're

[1:36:28] partnering with the Alpine Irrigation

[1:36:30] Company and that we're working in tandem

[1:36:32] rather than working against each other.

[1:36:34] Um, and then like I mentioned partnering

[1:36:37] with Lehi. Um, one of the thoughts that

[1:36:41] we had, which I don't know how likely

[1:36:42] this is, is what if Grove Spring, you

[1:36:44] know, is no longer accessible, we

[1:36:46] learned that we also have access to well

[1:36:49] water, but maybe there's some

[1:36:50] conversations that we could also have

[1:36:52] with Lehi with regards to utilizing more

[1:36:54] water from Schoolhouse Springs. Um, and

[1:36:58] then I love this one also. So part of

[1:37:01] the collaboration is within the

[1:37:02] community and um I have to give my hats

[1:37:06] off to the water committee for so far

[1:37:09] we've had three community education

[1:37:12] nights on water and they've all been

[1:37:14] different. So even if you've come to one

[1:37:17] that doesn't mean you shouldn't come to

[1:37:18] the others because they're they're super

[1:37:20] educational and I think it's a great way

[1:37:23] to learn more about water and just to be

[1:37:25] inspired to do your part. Um and then

[1:37:28] also we mentioned the forest service. Um

[1:37:32] and then a part of that is what we're

[1:37:33] doing tonight is we're presenting uh

[1:37:36] we're reporting on our our workshop that

[1:37:38] we attended. And then also just it's

[1:37:40] always good to follow up. So those are

[1:37:43] in summary um part of the action items

[1:37:46] for goal number one.

[1:37:57] Okay, it's my turn. Um goal number two

[1:38:01] is adopting policies and ordinances to I

[1:38:04] believe Yeah. Yes, here we come. to

[1:38:08] protect water resources and facilitate

[1:38:10] responsible land use. I think um Steve

[1:38:13] Rose mentioned that. Um since attending

[1:38:17] this um conference, I've changed my

[1:38:19] career and I'm now working for six water

[1:38:22] districts and uh each one is unique and

[1:38:25] I've learned about the different ways um

[1:38:28] we provide water um different ways land

[1:38:32] use impacts water. Um, it's been very

[1:38:36] enlightening. So, this was a good drink

[1:38:40] of water, but I'm been drinking through

[1:38:41] a fire hose about water. And, um, we're

[1:38:45] in a good we're in a really good place

[1:38:46] here in Alpine. I do want to say that

[1:38:49] because we're at the headgates for the

[1:38:50] river and our stream and our growth

[1:38:54] spring. So, um, that's something I I I

[1:38:58] feel like I I appreciate more and more,

[1:39:01] um, as I learn more and more about

[1:39:02] water. So let's um go to the next slide.

[1:39:06] Um water as you know is um essential for

[1:39:10] life. Let's go to the next one. We can

[1:39:12] skip the next one. I already read that.

[1:39:14] Okay. So I've been thinking about um the

[1:39:18] our blue planet because uh without water

[1:39:21] we couldn't live in this planet on this

[1:39:24] planet or even in this particular city.

[1:39:27] Um and so I found this rule of three.

[1:39:29] You can live three minutes without air.

[1:39:31] You can live 3 weeks without food, but

[1:39:33] only three days without water. And so

[1:39:36] that even though we're trying to do

[1:39:37] parks and we're trying to do alpine days

[1:39:39] and we're trying to um keep, you know,

[1:39:43] the streets from having potholes, like

[1:39:45] none of us could really survive if we

[1:39:47] weren't bringing water to our residents,

[1:39:49] which tells me how important it is that

[1:39:52] we get it right and that it's a

[1:39:53] long-term strategy and that it's we're

[1:39:56] resilient to the changes we're finding

[1:39:59] um in our whether it's climate change or

[1:40:02] develop like how we're developing our

[1:40:03] land. So, what? I didn't finish. I'm not

[1:40:06] I don't have that great a memory. All

[1:40:08] right. So, um we can I say today we can

[1:40:11] fly to the moon and we can send instant

[1:40:13] messages around the world and replace

[1:40:16] human organs, but yet we still haven't

[1:40:18] figured out control the weather. We're

[1:40:20] very dependent on mother nature in

[1:40:22] partnership as Steve brought up to to

[1:40:25] facilitate our lives really. And um we

[1:40:29] are living in a modern miracle. Every

[1:40:31] time we would pull turn on the tap um

[1:40:34] and see clean water coming out or even

[1:40:37] that we I have a I like Kentucky blueg

[1:40:40] grass. It's growing in my yard, but

[1:40:42] that's a miracle too because it wouldn't

[1:40:44] be growing without water. So that was

[1:40:47] just to tell you how important water is

[1:40:49] to our quality of life. So here are some

[1:40:52] um here here was our goal statement. We

[1:40:54] need to adopt responsible land use

[1:40:56] policies. And why? So we can protect

[1:40:59] this valuable resource which is the

[1:41:01] water. Um and facilitate responsible

[1:41:04] land use. And the people who are

[1:41:08] responsible for [snorts] ultimately for

[1:41:11] uh this goal is the Alpine City Council

[1:41:14] because we are the legislative arm of

[1:41:16] our city and that um we have experts

[1:41:19] among us um on staff and as mentioned

[1:41:23] residents who can help us reach these

[1:41:25] goals. So, here are some ideas of um

[1:41:28] ways that ordinances affect water. So,

[1:41:30] let's go through a few examples. Um we

[1:41:33] can click on the next one just to

[1:41:35] understand the full water cycle. Um if

[1:41:37] you were like me growing up in the dark

[1:41:39] ages, water only existed um on top of

[1:41:43] the ground and we could see it rain and

[1:41:45] then go down in streams and hit the

[1:41:47] ocean or the lakes and go back up again.

[1:41:49] Well, there's a whole other cycle going

[1:41:51] on underneath the ground. And that is

[1:41:54] actually the most um valuable water,

[1:41:57] drinking water, because it's naturally

[1:41:59] filtrated by the um roots and the stones

[1:42:03] and things like that. And it's also can

[1:42:05] be stored for a long, long time

[1:42:06] underground. And so that is why land is

[1:42:10] so important to our water source. So, um

[1:42:13] let's go to the next one. Here's our

[1:42:16] goals. Um we could talk about a

[1:42:18] landscape ordinance is the first thing.

[1:42:20] Um and then we would once we have

[1:42:23] ordinances then we could actually

[1:42:25] implement um like a followup by uh by

[1:42:29] when we issue landscape permits. Does it

[1:42:31] include these elements that benefit our

[1:42:33] underground water system? Um we'd have a

[1:42:36] drought response with trigger points. um

[1:42:39] in one of my six districts that I work

[1:42:41] for um they're in a extreme drought and

[1:42:44] their their water rates have drastically

[1:42:47] um been raised so that people are uh

[1:42:51] sensitive to the limited water that they

[1:42:53] have in that area and it's working

[1:42:56] because people I every day they call in

[1:42:57] why is my water bill so high and and

[1:42:59] every day they explain well we're in a

[1:43:01] drought and they're like okay I got to

[1:43:03] adapt. Um so I've seen that working in

[1:43:06] real time. um revisit tiered rates. Um

[1:43:11] we have rate structure, I mean a rate

[1:43:13] study coming up, I think in September,

[1:43:15] maybe Shane, I'd guessed at that

[1:43:17] deadline when I was sitting in my June

[1:43:19] conference, but maybe we'll have a rate

[1:43:20] study. And again, my six water

[1:43:23] districts, I think we have like 24 rate

[1:43:25] studies coming because everything has to

[1:43:27] change because of what we're dealing

[1:43:29] with. Um tons of stuff. Anyways, that's

[1:43:33] beside the point, but the rate structure

[1:43:35] is there to help bring um awareness to

[1:43:38] the to our residents and also facilitate

[1:43:42] funding the infrastructure necessary for

[1:43:45] water. So, it's it's a dual um process

[1:43:49] and we're sensitive to what is the the

[1:43:52] impact on the residents. Um and you'll

[1:43:55] see that when we do the rate setting

[1:43:57] September. So, um let's just talk about

[1:44:00] a couple things here. the lock coverage.

[1:44:02] Something again I've learned um when you

[1:44:04] have high lot coverage, you don't have

[1:44:07] enough [clears throat] permeable

[1:44:08] surfaces that so that water can get into

[1:44:11] the ground. And so um I've looked at

[1:44:13] other cities. Uh Kaden and I have gone

[1:44:16] through a couple of other cities that

[1:44:17] have lot coverage requirements. Sorry,

[1:44:20] stay up there. You're going a little

[1:44:22] fast for me. I'm a long talker. Just

[1:44:23] kidding. So anyways, um so that if we

[1:44:26] only have asphalt like no water can get

[1:44:30] down into the place that we need water

[1:44:32] which is underground to store it where

[1:44:35] that's our drinking water. We have wells

[1:44:37] from like high elevation to low

[1:44:39] elevation. So underground it's moving

[1:44:42] down to the lower elevations. So it

[1:44:45] matters. It doesn't really matter just

[1:44:47] what we're doing. Um it matters

[1:44:49] everywhere. And then like I said, we're

[1:44:52] the headgate. So even underground that

[1:44:54] water is moving underground to other

[1:44:56] places to other wells in American Fork

[1:44:58] or further downstream from us. So we

[1:45:01] have a big impact and um neighbor to

[1:45:04] neighbor we can help other cities care

[1:45:06] about lot coverage as well. Um here's

[1:45:10] something again I've learned um about

[1:45:13] the different forms of housing and we

[1:45:16] right now we don't allow anything but

[1:45:17] single family residents. So if we were

[1:45:21] to adapt to the shrinking uh water

[1:45:24] supply we have one way to adapt not the

[1:45:27] only way but one way is to um increase

[1:45:29] density by some factor and the state has

[1:45:33] already mandated um accessory dwelling

[1:45:36] units. So again um for the same amount

[1:45:39] of land, the same amount of water, we

[1:45:41] need to stretch it to to more households

[1:45:44] if we're going to comply with the state

[1:45:46] statute. So what they found over time um

[1:45:50] is that like I would compare Utah more

[1:45:52] to Denver, Phoenix, and San Diego

[1:45:54] because if you New York, you know, they

[1:45:57] have they have a completely different

[1:45:58] climate and so does um Florida. So in

[1:46:01] Denver, which I think is the closest if you only do single family homes, um

[1:46:06] you're going to use twice as much water

[1:46:08] per unit as if you um had multifamily

[1:46:11] homes. And this is a composite. It's not

[1:46:14] just talking about high density. This is

[1:46:15] a very long report but I don't want to

[1:46:17] bore you with it. So let's go to the

[1:46:19] next page. So how we um decide to to

[1:46:22] allow density in the city is affects our

[1:46:26] water which I didn't understand that at

[1:46:29] all when I started this process in June.

[1:46:31] Um here what about the importance of

[1:46:34] trees? We've talked about mature trees

[1:46:36] tonight right here on our alpine city.

[1:46:38] But there they do provide shade which

[1:46:41] cools the temperature of everything

[1:46:43] around us. So, if you have a street

[1:46:46] that's um in the sun on the top picture

[1:46:50] without trees, it's much hotter. 56 50

[1:46:53] degrees Celsius. So, this must have come

[1:46:55] from Europe or Canada because it's not

[1:46:57] in Fahrenheit. But anyways, versus 26

[1:46:59] degrees. So, almost twice the

[1:47:01] temperature. And then over here, um,

[1:47:03] when we do choose landscaping, what they

[1:47:06] found is, um, the places that have gone

[1:47:08] to zeroscaping that use no water, um, it

[1:47:11] actually creates a h a hotter

[1:47:14] environment and it makes it actually

[1:47:16] harder on the humans and the animals and

[1:47:19] any plants that are trying to survive in

[1:47:21] this much um artificial like basically

[1:47:25] an artificial heat zone. Also, um the um

[1:47:30] the any water that lands in that kind of

[1:47:33] heat doesn't really penetrate down very

[1:47:36] far because the the ground is just like

[1:47:39] hard. And so um then we go to our

[1:47:41] traditional grass, the turf, and that is

[1:47:45] um a high water use, very high water

[1:47:47] use. It does cool the areas though. And

[1:47:51] um but uh overall the best way to for

[1:47:55] water at least is so you can see the

[1:47:58] empty drop of water, the full drop of

[1:48:00] water and then the half it uses half as

[1:48:02] much. This is very you know um rounding

[1:48:07] half as much water and it's still

[1:48:09] beautiful. And then what we've learned

[1:48:11] is like the state and all their

[1:48:13] landscape replacement programs, they

[1:48:15] don't encourage rock. They really want

[1:48:17] us to use mulch because it retains

[1:48:19] moisture. It keeps um the roots cool for

[1:48:22] any plants you do have. So all those

[1:48:25] kinds of things could go into into a

[1:48:27] landscape ordinance to encourage um

[1:48:30] certain types of things or mandate

[1:48:32] certain certain things um where

[1:48:35] possible. Something to think about. Um

[1:48:40] another issue that has come up um

[1:48:42] recently is uh our repairarium buffers.

[1:48:45] We do have two major well not major streams not major rivers but

[1:48:50] definitely a streams um dry creek and

[1:48:53] fort creek and all around are they have

[1:48:56] um vegetation growing that you can see

[1:49:00] the water is not they're not just

[1:49:02] getting water from the rain or from the

[1:49:05] river itself. But if you go and tap down

[1:49:07] into the underground, underneath the

[1:49:09] ground, that stream is, you know, it it

[1:49:12] if you ever look at the stream bed, it's

[1:49:14] full of boulders. So, it's definitely

[1:49:16] porous and the water goes out and can

[1:49:18] get to the um roots of these trees. And

[1:49:22] so, um this has become more everyone's

[1:49:25] become more aware of how important it is

[1:49:27] to have a repairarian buffer. And we

[1:49:30] don't have to decide or dream up how to create the ordinance because

[1:49:34] there's actually a guide for city

[1:49:36] planners across the state of Utah. We

[1:49:38] can just pluck that out of that book and approve it next month. Who's who's

[1:49:43] for approving that?

[1:49:45] >> Okay, that was a joke. Okay, but I am.

[1:49:49] Okay. Lastly, um uh Sarah mentioned our

[1:49:53] watershed. Um maybe you've you've

[1:49:55] watched or heard about um or seen signs

[1:49:58] if you if you go hiking in the

[1:50:00] Cottonwood both little and big

[1:50:02] Cottonwood canyons about the watershed

[1:50:04] that that is a watershed for drinking

[1:50:06] water. And so we can't have dogs off

[1:50:09] leash. We can't um do you know obviously

[1:50:12] no human waste, right? That type of

[1:50:14] thing which would um which would poison

[1:50:18] um the water. And so we also have a

[1:50:20] watershed. If you look at this map from

[1:50:23] my inexperienced reading of the

[1:50:26] watershed, um I think we're in the Lone

[1:50:28] Peak Wilderness Watershed because our

[1:50:30] mountains like kind of come down right

[1:50:32] here to Alpine and I don't know what

[1:50:35] restrictions or signage or like what's

[1:50:37] happening up there. I do know um we do

[1:50:40] have some limitations. We used to go up

[1:50:42] to first and second Hamag. Some of

[1:50:44] that's been cut off because of the

[1:50:46] watershed issue. So, is that a matter of

[1:50:49] educating residents so we can continue

[1:50:50] to be in our wilderness area without,

[1:50:52] you know, using the water or I mean

[1:50:54] poisoning our water? Um, I don't know

[1:50:56] what it would take. It's new information

[1:50:59] just as of June. So, things to consider.

[1:51:02] Let's go to the next one. Okay. So, all

[1:51:06] of this is really to to really our

[1:51:08] desired outcome is to have a sustainable

[1:51:11] and resilient policies and ordinances

[1:51:14] that will outlive us. So that um when we

[1:51:17] talk about 2050 or 2100 that the water

[1:51:20] sources of the alpine area have been

[1:51:22] preserved, protected and um are

[1:51:25] resilient to the the changes that we're

[1:51:27] seeing. And that is our ambition. You

[1:51:31] can um go to the next one. So that I

[1:51:34] didn't know if we were going to do study

[1:51:35] session. We can we can skip that. We're

[1:51:37] not going to take three minutes. You can

[1:51:39] move on to the next one. Okay. So, just

[1:51:43] a reminder, um, we'll get to goal number

[1:51:45] three, but we can only go three days

[1:51:47] without water. So, it's one of the most

[1:51:49] important things we do is provide clean

[1:51:51] water. Not just for us, but as our our

[1:51:55] um our artists here talked about, we

[1:51:58] have a future to prepare for. And the

[1:52:01] future is not something that you enter,

[1:52:02] it's something you create.

[1:52:09] » Thank you, Council Member Haniman. That

[1:52:11] was that was great.

[1:52:15] I'm not long-winded, so this is going to

[1:52:17] be quick. Um, so our goal three here, as

[1:52:20] you can see up on the screen, developing

[1:52:23] and maintaining infrastructure to

[1:52:25] prepare the city for growth, correct

[1:52:27] water system deficiencies,

[1:52:29] um, and ensure water system

[1:52:31] redundancies. Um, and some of the things

[1:52:33] we kind of discuss with on this is stuff

[1:52:36] we are currently doing. we um have

[1:52:40] studies that have been completed um and

[1:52:43] we will continue to do those as we plan

[1:52:46] for 2050 or 2100. Um

[1:52:50] and then in those studies we there's

[1:52:52] always recommendations to how we prepare

[1:52:56] for growth and what we need to do to

[1:52:59] correct system deficiencies. Um, one

[1:53:02] thing we we discussed in our conference

[1:53:06] was ensure water system redundancies.

[1:53:09] Um, the way the city sits now, most of

[1:53:12] our drinking water comes from a spring

[1:53:15] and if that spring were to ever dry up,

[1:53:20] where are we getting our water? So, that

[1:53:22] is some of the planning that we we

[1:53:23] wanted to discuss and we want to plan

[1:53:25] for. Um, another thing that was kind of

[1:53:29] brought up in this scenario was working

[1:53:32] with residents, not just city staff, and

[1:53:35] figuring this out. What do the residents

[1:53:37] want to do, excuse me, want to do? Um,

[1:53:40] and the outcome that we hope to ensure

[1:53:43] reliable sources for our culinary

[1:53:46] system, our drinking water, and our

[1:53:49] pressurized irrigation system for our

[1:53:52] current population and future go growth.

[1:53:55] So Kaden can Oh, you're on to the next p

[1:53:57] next slide there. So um one of the

[1:54:00] things that we discussed was having a

[1:54:04] more robust SCADA system and I don't

[1:54:07] know if anyone here knows what SCADA

[1:54:09] means. So that's supervisory control and

[1:54:11] data acquisition. So that's basically

[1:54:14] software and hardware that is used to

[1:54:17] monitor

[1:54:19] um gather and control critical

[1:54:22] infrastructure. So it's just using the

[1:54:25] data that we can get from our

[1:54:26] infrastructure and then planning around

[1:54:28] it. Um so a couple of the things that we

[1:54:32] wanted to do was figure out where we're

[1:54:34] sitting and we we realized after this

[1:54:37] conference that we were we had some bugs

[1:54:40] in the system. So James who came with us

[1:54:45] to this conference um he's part of the

[1:54:48] water department and and is working with

[1:54:50] our water group and they have found like

[1:54:54] I said they found some bugs so they have

[1:54:55] repaired those already and fixed those I

[1:54:58] should say bugs bugs in the system

[1:55:00] issues in the system and so they've

[1:55:01] worked through that and we want to

[1:55:03] continue doing that. Um,

[1:55:06] the other thing here was, uh, the

[1:55:07] Heritage Well and getting a bond for

[1:55:11] that. And I know we've been discussing

[1:55:13] the bond and and that it'll go through

[1:55:16] in the next however long, as long as it

[1:55:19] takes. So, um, that's all I've got. Uh,

[1:55:23] one other last thing is we were given

[1:55:26] some reading materials,

[1:55:28] uh, up there. So if anyone wants them,

[1:55:31] we've got a whole lot of information

[1:55:32] that we were given up at this

[1:55:34] conference. So if anyone wants to see

[1:55:35] those, we have them.

[1:55:38] That's it for me. Thanks.

[1:55:44] » Um just one note on those on those

[1:55:46] resources that we have. Um this was

[1:55:48] actually Councilwoman Henman's idea is

[1:55:51] um we also have other books I know in

[1:55:54] Kaden's office. I borrowed one on like

[1:55:57] zoning and ordinances. Anyway, um we

[1:56:00] would love to be able to um allow the

[1:56:03] public to use these resources. One of

[1:56:04] the ones that I found interesting was

[1:56:07] just this, you know, recommended plant

[1:56:09] groupings for low water landscapes.

[1:56:12] Anyway, um there's a bunch of just

[1:56:14] resources here. So, if residents would

[1:56:16] like to use them, we'd like to leave

[1:56:17] them in the office of the city building.

[1:56:19] So,

[1:56:22] >> thank you very much, Steve, and your

[1:56:23] fellow committee members. Really

[1:56:25] appreciate all you're doing. you guys

[1:56:26] are putting in such time and effort and

[1:56:29] learning and sharing. Thank you so much

[1:56:31] Sarah and Chrissy as well for heading

[1:56:34] this up and for all your time and

[1:56:35] commitment to this. This is excellent.

[1:56:37] And Jason, thank you very much. In the

[1:56:39] interest of time, I suggest that we if

[1:56:42] you have any questions or thoughts on

[1:56:44] the presentation on this on things going

[1:56:46] forward. This is not an action item, so

[1:56:48] I think we can discuss it outside of the

[1:56:50] council meeting and um if it needs to be

[1:56:53] brought up at a future meeting, we can

[1:56:54] do so. Is that all right?

[1:56:56] >> Excellent. Thank you very much. All

[1:56:58] right, we'll move on to reports and

[1:57:00] presentations. Item D, revenue overview

[1:57:03] with Council Member Hanimman.

[1:57:07] >> I'm handing out these little budget

[1:57:09] booklets. Oh, she has her own. Okay. Um,

[1:57:15] we have extras if anyone wants to follow

[1:57:17] along.

[1:57:21] I'll talk. Yeah, she's my able assistant

[1:57:25] here. If you're interested, um let's

[1:57:27] just put them like on the front seat.

[1:57:30] >> And and this goes to walk around and

[1:57:33] give it to Shane and some over there.

[1:57:35] Okay. Um

[1:57:38] [clears throat] this little booklet is

[1:57:40] only this big, but it has some really

[1:57:43] important things that um we as elected

[1:57:47] officials need to understand about our

[1:57:48] budgeting process. And um I feel like uh

[1:57:52] one of the things that we just completed

[1:57:55] our budgeting process. If you've been

[1:57:57] through all of that um with us, thank

[1:58:00] you for attending. But um if we if we

[1:58:05] tried to learn everything like from May

[1:58:07] to June when we actually have to approve

[1:58:09] it, we we would miss a lot. So I'm

[1:58:11] trying to stretch out some budgeting

[1:58:14] concepts starting in July. Wow. We're

[1:58:17] like uh 11 months ahead of schedule. So

[1:58:20] anyways, um as a water as a water

[1:58:22] committee, as a finance committee, we

[1:58:26] have um Shane that serves and then

[1:58:28] Kaden's been joining us. And then we

[1:58:31] have um Carrie Smith. He's a CPA also in

[1:58:35] the private and the public sector. We

[1:58:37] have Dave Sanderson who's our finance

[1:58:40] director, but he's um like an

[1:58:42] consultant. And then we have another uh

[1:58:46] citizen um Steve King. And we we learn

[1:58:51] about things and then we've reached the

[1:58:53] point where we felt like the most

[1:58:55] important people that need to understand

[1:58:57] this are the people that are sitting in

[1:58:59] these chairs. And where's my Andrew when

[1:59:01] I need him? There he is. Oh, hi.

[1:59:04] >> Okay.

[1:59:06] >> All that water talk made you thirsty.

[1:59:08] Okay. So, we're sitting in these chairs

[1:59:10] because we thought, what do we need to

[1:59:11] do? Should we do a news article? what

[1:59:13] should we do to talk about revenue? Um

[1:59:15] that was our original plan was just put

[1:59:17] this into the newsletter and it would

[1:59:19] educate you know all our residents but

[1:59:21] we realized we needed to start here at

[1:59:22] the top. So um this is a presentation

[1:59:27] just strictly on revenue. So it we are

[1:59:30] not going to talk about anything but

[1:59:31] revenue. We're also not going to um talk

[1:59:35] about what we would call um uh

[1:59:37] enterprise funds or our like the

[1:59:39] utilities even though we just started

[1:59:41] left the water topic because they they

[1:59:44] operate differently and so um there's no

[1:59:48] taxing authority at all and so there's just it's just structured

[1:59:52] differently um and so I don't want to

[1:59:55] over complicate things so we're going to

[1:59:57] keep it simple and just talk about taxes

[2:00:00] and how they impact the general fund.

[2:00:02] and along with fees. Okay, let's go to

[2:00:05] the next slide. Thank you. All right, so

[2:00:08] here this is from our 2025 um citizen

[2:00:10] budget and it shows all the revenues uh

[2:00:13] in our general fund only. You can see

[2:00:15] that general fund revenue right going

[2:00:17] across the top. And so these are our

[2:00:20] reoccurring funds that come in on a um

[2:00:23] year after year. And uh the three

[2:00:26] biggest ones are sales tax, property

[2:00:28] tax, and fees. And um often our budget

[2:00:33] is augmented by one-time money and

[2:00:35] that's like how we're going to pay for

[2:00:38] um like the Canyon Crest improvement

[2:00:40] with the MAG grant. How we paid for I

[2:00:42] think our landscape design was a grant.

[2:00:45] Was that not Shane our our landscape

[2:00:47] consultant or did was that our own

[2:00:49] funding?

[2:00:49] >> That's actually through impact fees.

[2:00:51] >> Okay. We're using impact fees again.

[2:00:53] Impact fees are onetime money. once the

[2:00:56] lot is built is that we never collect

[2:00:59] again. That that's just how it goes. Um

[2:01:02] we also can get transfers in from other

[2:01:04] places um like when we're building the

[2:01:06] fire station, everything will go out

[2:01:08] through the general fund or we can you

[2:01:11] know we can transfer it um for a future

[2:01:14] use um for other things. Another thing

[2:01:17] that happened um we got some money from

[2:01:19] the federal government because of COVID

[2:01:21] which is called ARPA. Can't remember

[2:01:23] what it stands for anymore but it was

[2:01:24] ARPA funds. Okay, keep going. One time.

[2:01:28] So, you should not pay for one

[2:01:30] uh reoccurring expenses with one-time

[2:01:33] money. That's a general financial

[2:01:34] principle. So, we have to look at what

[2:01:37] are our reoccurring revenues and that's

[2:01:39] what going to be the focus of today. Um

[2:01:42] is the first one is going to be sales

[2:01:44] tax. This is a general discussion and

[2:01:46] then we're going to go right directly to

[2:01:48] Alpine. So generally sales tax is the

[2:01:51] largest uh revenue source for a city but

[2:01:54] um not but and let me just read if you

[2:01:57] read on page 25 following along if

[2:01:59] you're interested um the sales and use

[2:02:02] taxes are taxed on most goods and some

[2:02:04] services. Sales tax applies when a

[2:02:06] purchase is made inside the state and

[2:02:08] when shipped from outside the state.

[2:02:11] Municipalities uh rate and set the is

[2:02:14] set by the legislature and

[2:02:15] municipalities is only 1%. So if our

[2:02:19] full tax rate over there is 745%

[2:02:23] we get 1%. In addition you can

[2:02:26] optionally add a few other things and we

[2:02:28] added have chosen to do the park tax um

[2:02:31] in this state which is I think just.1%.

[2:02:34] It's later in this slide. Okay. Um sign

[2:02:37] there was a significant um

[2:02:40] change in 2018. I was um in school and I

[2:02:44] learned about it uh learning about taxes

[2:02:48] and it changed the way uh taxes sales

[2:02:51] taxes collected from outside of our own

[2:02:53] state. Prior to 2018, if you bought

[2:02:56] something from another state, you didn't

[2:02:58] pay sales tax. So, there was some

[2:03:00] advantage to buying things from another

[2:03:02] state. Um, and for whatever reason, I

[2:03:05] don't know the legal arguments, but the

[2:03:07] Supreme Court said, "No, you you should

[2:03:09] te collect local sales tax on, you know,

[2:03:12] the behalf of our municipalities, even

[2:03:14] if you're shipping from out of state."

[2:03:16] So, um, this ruling significantly

[2:03:19] boosted local government budgets by

[2:03:21] capturing long-lost revenues from the

[2:03:23] e-commerce boom. So, that happened in

[2:03:25] 2018. Well, what happened in 2019, 2020?

[2:03:29] Who knows? Anyone?

[2:03:31] >> Co.

[2:03:32] So that again gave a huge boost to

[2:03:36] the e-commerce world that changed the

[2:03:39] dynamics of our city significantly. So

[2:03:41] let's go on to the next one. We will see

[2:03:44] we will and that's your that's just

[2:03:46] that's to hold your breath. We're going

[2:03:48] to talk about that. What about property

[2:03:50] tax? Generally it's the second largest

[2:03:52] source of revenue in a local city in the

[2:03:54] state of Utah. Um it's it's a tax based

[2:03:58] on the value of real property and it

[2:04:00] provides the most stable and predictable

[2:04:03] source of revenue for our general fund

[2:04:06] um for reoccurring costs. The only

[2:04:09] source that and it's also the only

[2:04:10] source that is 100% controlled by the

[2:04:12] council. The certified rate is designed

[2:04:15] to give the city the same amount of

[2:04:17] revenue as the previous year plus new

[2:04:19] properties which we will talk about. So,

[2:04:22] um unlike sales tax, sales tax will grow

[2:04:26] as your population grows and sales tax

[2:04:29] can grow with inflation. Um property tax

[2:04:31] is the opposite. Um if if there's more

[2:04:34] people living in your city, if they

[2:04:36] didn't build a new house, let's just say

[2:04:38] that they like multiplied and

[2:04:40] replenished the earth like our good

[2:04:41] friend Andrew, we have more babies born,

[2:04:44] it doesn't change a thing about our

[2:04:46] property taxes, right? It does. or if

[2:04:47] you have less people living in your

[2:04:49] city, it has no impact whatsoever based

[2:04:52] on population. And what about inflation?

[2:04:54] Nope. They the state has removed the

[2:04:56] inflationary factor out of property tax

[2:04:59] completely. So we don't your taxes do

[2:05:02] not go up as your assessed value goes

[2:05:04] up. Um we have to share our our property

[2:05:07] tax bill among all these other agencies.

[2:05:10] So, Alpine Cities, um, if you collect,

[2:05:13] you know, $1,000 in sales tax, uh, $140

[2:05:18] goes to, um, the city of Alpine. So, you might have a big tax bill, but, if

[2:05:24] you really looked and broke it down

[2:05:25] dollar for dollar, you don't pay that

[2:05:27] much really to the city of Alpine

[2:05:29] relative to the 86% going to all the

[2:05:32] other agencies with the majority going

[2:05:34] to schools. Having been a former

[2:05:36] schoolboard member, that's not a bad

[2:05:37] thing, but just so you know.

[2:05:39] >> [snorts]

[2:05:39] >> Okay. So, let's go. Keep going. Truth in

[2:05:42] taxation. Now, when I said there's no

[2:05:43] impact um to our property tax because of

[2:05:46] inflation, this is how truth and

[2:05:48] taxation works. It says what were the

[2:05:51] amount of tax dollars tax dollars that

[2:05:54] you collected in the prior year. That's

[2:05:56] all you can collect this year. You you

[2:05:58] it will not go up. The only difference

[2:06:01] is that if you um have new um properties

[2:06:05] that are developed in your city, you get

[2:06:07] that bump. it's not included in that

[2:06:10] initial calculation. So, um that's how

[2:06:13] our certified tax rate works and that's

[2:06:16] a lot of people talk about truth and

[2:06:18] taxation. Like for me, truth and

[2:06:20] taxation meant one thing, but what I

[2:06:22] learned from studying is it's really a

[2:06:25] um a notification process. There's many

[2:06:28] steps and it's very detailed how to

[2:06:30] notify the the taxpayers about any

[2:06:33] changes in the tax rate. Um, and so what

[2:06:37] you can see this last thing right here

[2:06:39] is well, let's talk about the the the process, the public transparency is

[2:06:45] there's a direct mailer to the

[2:06:47] homeowners. We don't have to do that for

[2:06:48] anything else. And there's always a

[2:06:50] public hearing. And so, um, that those

[2:06:53] are the two steps. And so, if you look

[2:06:55] over here on the left, no windfalls. If

[2:06:57] property values increase, the tax rate

[2:06:59] automatically drops. So the government

[2:07:01] does not collect extra money without a

[2:07:04] vote by the elected body who is us.

[2:07:06] Let's go to the next slide. All right.

[2:07:09] The third category of revenue is

[2:07:10] licensing and permits and fees. So how

[2:07:14] are they calculated? One thing I learned

[2:07:16] is that um if you can read that top

[2:07:18] paragraph, it has to be based on a cost

[2:07:20] basis. You can't just randomly say, you

[2:07:23] know, I really think we should charge,

[2:07:25] you know,

[2:07:27] $200 for a library card if we're in a

[2:07:29] different city. like you have to have

[2:07:30] some cost basis to it. What does it cost

[2:07:33] to like you know pay the utilities to

[2:07:35] run the staff to build the building? I

[2:07:37] don't know at all. We don't have a

[2:07:38] library but it has to be uh grounded in

[2:07:41] some kind of cost basis. Now, um, what's

[2:07:44] happened is because there is no truth in

[2:07:46] taxation process and so our residents

[2:07:49] don't get to know, people are other

[2:07:51] cities are going around and putting in

[2:07:53] lots of fees in their in their fee

[2:07:56] structure and it kind of just slides

[2:07:59] right in without any real notice to the

[2:08:01] public and that's not a good way to to raise money. it's not a way to govern

[2:08:06] and you know we believe that our people

[2:08:09] need to be informed and in a transparent

[2:08:10] process and so this new bill came out in

[2:08:13] 2026 that that put us into all of that.

[2:08:18] Of course it was sponsored by somebody

[2:08:19] in a city who um already had a fee and

[2:08:23] so they create a little loophole for

[2:08:25] that city. We'll talk about that later.

[2:08:27] So um generally the third largest source

[2:08:30] of revenue in a city of Utah. Okay. Now

[2:08:32] let's talk about Alpine. is what you've

[2:08:34] been waiting for. So, here's our

[2:08:35] highlights again. Um, first of all, our

[2:08:38] property tax um is 37%.

[2:08:42] So, it's actually our largest um revenue

[2:08:45] source, not sales tax. Any surprises why

[2:08:48] that would be council members? This is

[2:08:50] interactive. Why isn't sales tax a

[2:08:53] bigger part of our revenue source?

[2:08:55] >> Because we don't have much retail

[2:08:58] generating

[2:08:59] >> tax revenue generating businesses.

[2:09:01] >> Perfect. Okay. That's right. Um and then

[2:09:06] let's see sales taxes only is the second

[2:09:09] biggest pool. And then the third biggest

[2:09:11] one would be our fees. So um when you

[2:09:15] look at the demographics and I think the

[2:09:17] parks thing already showed that we are

[2:09:19] starting to age but our median household

[2:09:22] income is very high. Our home values are

[2:09:24] high. Um, and so

[2:09:28] it's, how do I want to say it may be

[2:09:30] more equitable that the that because we

[2:09:33] don't have that commercial base that our

[2:09:35] residents can actually afford a little

[2:09:37] bit higher property tax relative to what

[2:09:41] how other cities are generating revenue

[2:09:43] because um, we have a little bit we have

[2:09:46] higher home values and higher income.

[2:09:49] Whether or not we think that's fair,

[2:09:50] that's for us to decide. That's why

[2:09:52] we're here. Okay, so let's keep going to

[2:09:54] the next thing. Here's our alpine trend.

[2:09:57] So in reality, the amount of revenue

[2:10:00] that we generated is um the orange line

[2:10:04] and there was a jump in property tax

[2:10:06] which we're going to discuss on the next

[2:10:08] slide. And then what's happening to our

[2:10:10] rate council members?

[2:10:14] >> Where are you where you looking?

[2:10:16] >> The green line is the rate. It's

[2:10:18] decreasing.

[2:10:19] >> It's decreasing. So as so our rate is

[2:10:22] decreasing because um

[2:10:26] our as our values goes up the rate goes

[2:10:28] down right because we remember algebra

[2:10:30] from seventh grade. Okay so what about

[2:10:33] our tax rate we've actually seen an

[2:10:35] increase um year-over-year in the last

[2:10:37] year was um almost 4%.

[2:10:41] So in this little booklet um oh I I I

[2:10:44] missed some things. Okay, we talked

[2:10:45] about sales tax was page 25. Page 24 was

[2:10:49] property tax, but I read right out of

[2:10:50] this books. Page 27 was licensing and

[2:10:54] fees. We missed that, but I did read

[2:10:56] from my slide. So, what I want you to

[2:10:59] look at now is page 20. That's the next

[2:11:02] slide. And let's read this together.

[2:11:05] >> Hey Christie, on this you might not want

[2:11:07] to comment, but uh it took me forever to

[2:11:10] understand that last page. Is it okay if

[2:11:13] I explain it once?

[2:11:14] >> Go right ahead.

[2:11:15] >> If you go back up. So, I didn't

[2:11:17] understand this. This

[2:11:18] >> We can't hear you.

[2:11:19] >> Sorry. I didn't understand this. This

[2:11:20] really helps.

[2:11:21] >> Uh, so this year we did not raise

[2:11:25] property taxes. Every city had the

[2:11:28] opportunity.

[2:11:28] >> Talk to your microphone.

[2:11:29] >> Every city had the opportunity to do

[2:11:30] that. We did not do that. So, your

[2:11:32] property taxes never raise

[2:11:36] unless we vote on them to raise. Your

[2:11:39] home goes up in value. It doesn't

[2:11:41] change. we vote on a absolute number

[2:11:44] that we're going to take in. Say it was

[2:11:47] 2.9 million. That's what we get no

[2:11:49] matter what. If um if some people's

[2:11:54] house people's house because their

[2:11:56] neighborhood goes up in value, that just

[2:11:58] means it gets distributed amongst all of

[2:12:02] us a little bit different. So, I just

[2:12:04] looked at mine. Our rate stayed the

[2:12:07] exact same because we did not vote to

[2:12:09] raise property taxes. Um, and so our

[2:12:12] number should be pretty much exactly the

[2:12:14] same on Alpine City. Mine is a

[2:12:16] difference of like $40, a difference of

[2:12:19] like $4. So it stays the same. So I

[2:12:22] didn't understand that. So that's what

[2:12:24] that green line is. Our rate is going

[2:12:26] down. That's just the percentage that

[2:12:28] we're all charged, but it's the same

[2:12:30] dollar amount. We're all we're all

[2:12:32] paying the exact

[2:12:33] >> in total

[2:12:34] >> in the same total amount.

[2:12:36] >> Yeah. just like yours went up by 40.

[2:12:37] Somebody else probably went down by 40

[2:12:39] like to get to the same number.

[2:12:40] >> So maybe the housing changed a little

[2:12:43] bit of value or they just found out and

[2:12:45] wanted to ding me. But uh yeah, anyways,

[2:12:48] that that helped me to

[2:12:49] >> and the only reason the red line is

[2:12:50] going up is because we have a few more

[2:12:51] homes built each year,

[2:12:52] >> right?

[2:12:53] >> So I guess this is the biggest

[2:12:54] misconception I think of the residents

[2:12:56] of of of property taxes. I've lived in

[2:12:58] four states and one US territory, owned

[2:13:00] homes in all five places. Utah is very

[2:13:03] unique in that when your property values

[2:13:07] increase, it doesn't automatically

[2:13:08] increase your property taxes.

[2:13:09] >> The amount you pay.

[2:13:10] >> Yeah. The amount you paid, the amount of

[2:13:11] your tax. So, in the I think in the 12

[2:13:14] years I've lived here, it's it's been

[2:13:16] raised twice. Um and so all the other

[2:13:19] raises have been because of the county

[2:13:21] or the school district or one of the

[2:13:22] other taxing authorities.

[2:13:23] >> Yep.

[2:13:24] >> So, it's just a big misconception that,

[2:13:25] hey, my my my property values doubled in

[2:13:28] 10 years. I'm paying double the tax.

[2:13:31] You're not.

[2:13:31] >> Right. So, we were talking to the

[2:13:33] assessor yesterday and he's getting all

[2:13:36] the calls from people because we just

[2:13:38] got our notices. He's getting the calls

[2:13:40] saying, "Why did my property taxes go

[2:13:44] up? You just assessed my house at

[2:13:46] bigger." Well, it's not him, it's bodies

[2:13:50] like us that are making those go up. The

[2:13:53] problem is there's like three or four of

[2:13:54] them. There's the school district like

[2:13:57] she said, there's the county and there's

[2:13:59] the city and then a bunch of water

[2:14:01] districts and you have the whole list of

[2:14:04] each one so you can kind of So that's

[2:14:06] the only way it goes up is through

[2:14:07] people like us. So tell us what you want

[2:14:11] and don't want. That's what I'm trying

[2:14:13] to say.

[2:14:13] >> We'll get to that. Andrew, you're

[2:14:15] jumping the gun. That was really good.

[2:14:16] No took me to understand it. I didn't

[2:14:19] get it.

[2:14:19] >> Yeah. No, that's what the finance

[2:14:22] committee concluded was the most people

[2:14:24] that important people that need to

[2:14:26] understand it are are the people sitting

[2:14:27] in these chairs.

[2:14:28] >> And the last tiny thing is say 40 new

[2:14:31] homes come in. I thought, oh great, that

[2:14:34] will disperse our property tax amongst

[2:14:37] more people and we'll all go down.

[2:14:39] Sadly, no. I thought that would be the

[2:14:41] case. What it does is it takes our base

[2:14:43] 2.9 million that we have voted on years

[2:14:47] and years ago and it just adds that to

[2:14:50] be

[2:14:51] >> But that's not sad.

[2:14:52] >> No, it's not sad. I just meant

[2:14:54] >> when you when you bring in new

[2:14:55] residents, it increases costs.

[2:14:56] >> Yeah. It increases.

[2:14:58] >> We have new roads to maintain.

[2:15:00] >> It doesn't disperse it. It increases the

[2:15:01] to so it goes up to like three million.

[2:15:04] >> If you wanted to, you could you could go

[2:15:06] up three slides and that's the increase,

[2:15:08] right? The green go up right there.

[2:15:10] Thank you, Kayen. The green line is like

[2:15:12] the and then sometimes you know your

[2:15:15] value can go up or down and then um it's

[2:15:18] one exception is new growth authorized

[2:15:20] by the county and state. So that that

[2:15:22] they they take that out of the whole

[2:15:24] calculation before. Okay, let's go back

[2:15:27] now. Now let's read page 20. Okay, are

[2:15:31] we ready? Okay. One of the best

[2:15:33] indicators of future revenue and

[2:15:35] expenditures can be found by examining

[2:15:37] the average actual growth trend of each

[2:15:40] of the major categories over the past

[2:15:42] three to five years. As newly new newly

[2:15:44] elected officials head into their first

[2:15:46] budget process, they should understand

[2:15:49] the actual revenue and expenditures

[2:15:51] patterns of the past so they can discern

[2:15:53] if both revenue and expenditure

[2:15:55] projections make sense. And then there's

[2:15:57] some examples. So, our my ever willing

[2:16:00] um resident um did these calculations

[2:16:04] and um let's look at sales tax first. Um

[2:16:08] we just pull these. You can these are

[2:16:09] all on the state website. Um there's a

[2:16:11] transparency website that has every

[2:16:13] city, every every little thing you ever

[2:16:16] wanted to know is on this the

[2:16:17] transparency website. Here we go. So,

[2:16:20] and it's also on our Alpine City

[2:16:21] website. But, um here's our sales tax

[2:16:24] collection. So, let's look for a second.

[2:16:27] What happened in 2018? This is a quiz,

[2:16:29] council members. What happened in 2018

[2:16:32] that our sales tax went up 14%.

[2:16:35] Anyone remember? It was the Wayfair

[2:16:38] decision. Sorry, I gave it away.

[2:16:39] >> Online sales.

[2:16:41] >> It was the Supreme Court decision that

[2:16:43] gave us the authority.

[2:16:45] >> Yes.

[2:16:46] >> Online.

[2:16:47] sales.

[2:16:48] >> Yes. And then what happened again? Look

[2:16:49] at COVID 2020, 21, and 22 like it went

[2:16:53] through the roof.

[2:16:55] because people were staying home. They

[2:16:57] were not um venturing out. So, what do

[2:17:00] you think was going on in our in our

[2:17:01] neighbors cities that were relying on

[2:17:03] brickandmortar sales?

[2:17:06] They were struggling. Hence, we got CO

[2:17:09] money.

[2:17:09] >> They also got increases for online sales

[2:17:11] as well. So, there was a a give and take

[2:17:13] there.

[2:17:14] >> True. Well, not always. So, um while

[2:17:18] we're talking about sales tax, yeah,

[2:17:20] this is a good time because they use the

[2:17:22] disinfectant wipes on their things.

[2:17:23] >> [laughter]

[2:17:24] >> Um, I'm glad you said that. So, we have

[2:17:27] a neighbor. Well, we'll talk about that

[2:17:28] later. You You remember that thought?

[2:17:31] Okay, let's look at property tax then.

[2:17:32] Right here, you can see it went up um

[2:17:35] these way uh every year. Well, what in

[2:17:38] the world happened in 2020?

[2:17:42] >> Truth and taxation

[2:17:43] >> property tax increase by the city

[2:17:45] council.

[2:17:46] >> That's right. And what happened in 2023?

[2:17:50] >> And I tried to fight that, by the way.

[2:17:52] >> Okay. Okay. Well, now you're here. You

[2:17:53] can fight it louder.

[2:17:54] >> Those are the two and the 12 years that

[2:17:56] I referenced earlier.

[2:17:57] >> Yes. Those are the only two years in 12

[2:17:59] that have ever we change we've ever

[2:18:01] increased the rate. Shane, would since

[2:18:04] you were you're the only one who lived

[2:18:05] through that, can you remind us what

[2:18:07] happened then?

[2:18:08] >> Yeah. So, the the first tax increase uh

[2:18:11] occurred

[2:18:12] uh there in 2020 when Cedar Hills left

[2:18:16] the public safety district and it left

[2:18:19] Highland and Alpine there. and it wasn't

[2:18:22] like all of their costs went away. So,

[2:18:25] both cities uh had more costs to deal

[2:18:29] with. And so, that was that tax

[2:18:31] increase. The second one uh it was it

[2:18:35] was two things really. Uh some of that

[2:18:37] was for public safety and some was for

[2:18:40] projects. Um after CO the cost of

[2:18:43] projects just went through the roof and

[2:18:46] so um the city actually held the rate

[2:18:50] from the year before which generated um

[2:18:53] more property tax revenue and we've been

[2:18:56] able to kind of sustain that since then

[2:18:59] without another increase. A lot of

[2:19:01] cities did an increase this year.

[2:19:03] >> Yeah, they did.

[2:19:04] >> Oh yeah, they're going through it.

[2:19:06] So you can see if you look at the non

[2:19:09] non-truth and taxation years, that's

[2:19:11] really just our growth rate. Like what

[2:19:13] did we add to our city um new homes, you

[2:19:17] know?

[2:19:18] >> Yeah. So it's kind of our growth rate of

[2:19:21] our city. Okay.

[2:19:22] >> Can I make a can I make a comment before

[2:19:23] we go on?

[2:19:23] >> Please do.

[2:19:24] >> So two things. One is when a when a tax

[2:19:27] is increased, a property tax increase,

[2:19:29] it's there permanently. So you saw the increase in 2020, it it applies

[2:19:35] every year after that, which Okay. And

[2:19:38] the second comment I'll [snorts] make is

[2:19:40] because of the truth and tax taxation

[2:19:43] laws in Utah, um

[2:19:48] we we can only increase the revenue

[2:19:50] outside of sales tax gradually

[2:19:52] increasing by raising taxes. Whereas in

[2:19:56] all these years that we did not raise

[2:19:57] taxes, inflation continues. Not just

[2:20:00] purchasing items for the city, materials

[2:20:04] for the fire department for example, was

[2:20:06] much more expensive than when the

[2:20:08] conversation was started several years

[2:20:09] ago, but also the cost of uh personnel.

[2:20:14] So all these inflationary costs keep

[2:20:15] going up yet our revenue stays flat. So

[2:20:18] at some point a couple like Alpine's

[2:20:21] been very fortunate that only two years

[2:20:22] in the last 12 property tax I don't know

[2:20:25] what happened before that before I moved

[2:20:26] here the property taxes have been raised

[2:20:29] but it just it's a matter of fact it has

[2:20:31] to happen because of the continued

[2:20:33] increase in costs. Does that make sense?

[2:20:36] >> Yes.

[2:20:36] >> If we want to maintain our current level

[2:20:38] of service to the residents.

[2:20:39] >> Brent just a thought. I'll try to use

[2:20:42] this as gentle as possible because

[2:20:44] someone's been flinging it on me and

[2:20:47] that is they're doing the uh projections

[2:20:51] of what the CPI has been over the last

[2:20:53] 10 years, meaning the basically the

[2:20:56] inflation rate and how much that has

[2:20:59] grown. And they're comparing that to

[2:21:02] what property taxes have been raised in

[2:21:04] the same decade. We're over like 200%

[2:21:06] over on our raising the taxes versus the

[2:21:10] inflation.

[2:21:12] They're doing it with several other

[2:21:13] numbers as well. So, it's just something

[2:21:14] to think about. We I I understand the

[2:21:16] inflation, but we we may have gone over

[2:21:19] the top.

[2:21:19] >> But if you No, if you listen to what

[2:21:21] Shane's explanation was, there was a

[2:21:22] structural change in the way

[2:21:24] >> I'm not saying we like specifically I

[2:21:26] just

[2:21:27] >> No, no, but that was the only reason is

[2:21:28] because we we we three cities were

[2:21:31] participating in the cost of running.

[2:21:33] >> Right. Right. No,

[2:21:34] >> when we lost that, we had to make that

[2:21:35] up.

[2:21:36] >> No, no, I know. Not that not that

[2:21:38] specific. I just meant inflation in

[2:21:40] general. Okay.

[2:21:41] >> Not that I understand that.

[2:21:42] >> Yeah.

[2:21:44] >> And I do think I mean we're above the

[2:21:46] CPI in our increase in sales tax, but I

[2:21:48] do think it's because we're we're

[2:21:50] ecommerce has become such more of a

[2:21:52] driver. That That's my personal opinion.

[2:21:55] I'm not an economist, but I I wish I

[2:21:57] were. No, I'm just kidding. Okay.

[2:21:58] [snorts] All right. Here we go. Let's

[2:22:00] So, what caught my eye in my little deep

[2:22:02] dive into revenue? I found this report

[2:22:04] that was produced by the Utah Taxpayers

[2:22:06] Association. And if you're not familiar

[2:22:08] with them, they represent the taxpayers,

[2:22:10] not the government, right? So, I don't

[2:22:13] want to say we're the enemy, but you

[2:22:15] know, I was on the school board for

[2:22:16] eight years. They treated us like we

[2:22:18] were the enemy. So, um, but they're very

[2:22:21] they're they are very they're very good

[2:22:22] in their research. They have so they

[2:22:24] have really good reports. Um, I really

[2:22:26] appreciated and they took the time to

[2:22:29] talk to me and produce this report

[2:22:31] because um, they had this report on the

[2:22:33] top 50 cities in the state of Utah and

[2:22:36] we didn't make the cut. We didn't have a

[2:22:38] big enough population. So I said, "Hey,

[2:22:40] can you just give me those same data for

[2:22:42] Alpine?" Oh yeah, no problem. Can you

[2:22:44] just add our neighbors, too? Because

[2:22:46] somehow we like to always compare

[2:22:48] ourselves to our neighbors. So this was

[2:22:50] uh courtesy of the Utah taxpayers

[2:22:52] association using all the re the data

[2:22:54] that's available um to public in the

[2:22:58] public. So um a couple little things

[2:23:00] because they represent the taxpayer they

[2:23:03] want to look at everything on per capita

[2:23:05] income data. So they look at our

[2:23:08] population, they look at our income, and

[2:23:10] so this is like basically per capita

[2:23:13] what we pay. Um our residents pay per

[2:23:17] 865,

[2:23:19] Highland 731, and Cedar Hills 832. So we

[2:23:24] do pay the highest, right? But if you

[2:23:26] look at it relative to our income, then

[2:23:29] it's um it's not as high because we have

[2:23:32] higher income. So, we pay less for

[2:23:35] $1,000 of the citizen. See how it's 12?

[2:23:38] I guess Highland pays less, too. Less

[2:23:39] than us. Okay. If you have questions

[2:23:42] about these numbers, we can go over

[2:23:43] them. Um uh they they didn't look at all

[2:23:47] the all the revenue sources like grants

[2:23:50] or um uh certain things that we get

[2:23:54] paid. Uh they only looked at these three

[2:23:56] revenue sources. And so in the at the

[2:23:59] end of the day um they came up with the

[2:24:02] percentage that each of these cities

[2:24:04] including Alpine pays. So sales tax is

[2:24:07] lower than property tax which is

[2:24:09] unusual. You can see the other two

[2:24:11] cities they they pay they receive almost

[2:24:14] twice as much sales tax as property tax.

[2:24:17] And then other taxes and fees they also

[2:24:19] have a higher percentage from that. So,

[2:24:21] our residents are paying a greater

[2:24:24] proportion um of revenues or we're

[2:24:27] receiving, I should say, we're receiving

[2:24:29] a greater proportion of revenues from

[2:24:31] property tax than our two neighbors.

[2:24:33] Again, to Brent's point, because we

[2:24:35] don't have retail. So, um in talking to

[2:24:38] the sales tax commission, um it's very

[2:24:41] private information. All she could give

[2:24:43] me was the percentages, but I said,

[2:24:44] "Well, how is it that we collect, you

[2:24:46] know, similar dollars as sales tax to

[2:24:50] Cedar Hills?" And how much of that is

[2:24:52] e-commerce? She couldn't give me more

[2:24:54] than the fact that Cedar Hills um gets

[2:24:56] about 40% of their sales tax from

[2:24:58] e-commerce where we are 80%. So they do

[2:25:02] get a lot from um all the you know like

[2:25:05] there's Walmart, there's other uh

[2:25:07] restaurants. I don't there's a storage

[2:25:09] place. I don't know what else is in

[2:25:11] Cedar Hills, but they they collect on

[2:25:13] site. They collect on site and we don't

[2:25:15] really have a place for that. Um

[2:25:17] Highland charges um Okay. And then

[2:25:19] Highland was very interesting because if

[2:25:22] you public information, if you go to

[2:25:24] their fee chart, you can see that they

[2:25:26] charge $15.25

[2:25:28] for safety and wait and $1850. Did I get

[2:25:32] that right? Public safety is$,525 and

[2:25:34] transportation is $1850.

[2:25:36] >> That's a month, right?

[2:25:37] >> Monthly on their utility bill. So, after

[2:25:40] you get charged for water, garbage

[2:25:42] collection, sewer, there's also a fee

[2:25:45] for safety and transportation, um,

[2:25:48] public safety and transportation. And

[2:25:50] so, they've chosen that way. Um, whether

[2:25:53] or not that's fully transparent, that is

[2:25:56] how how they have operated. And Highland

[2:25:59] generates more than $2 million from

[2:26:01] these specific fees paid monthly.

[2:26:06] But the the legislature isn't happy

[2:26:07] about it. and they they put an end to

[2:26:09] it. So, um that's that's there's some

[2:26:14] other loopholes which we will not

[2:26:15] digress into. Okay. So, the whole point

[2:26:18] of this is what is the impact on our

[2:26:20] families like the way they're paying

[2:26:21] their taxes. So, I thought that that was

[2:26:24] just an interesting look by the Utah

[2:26:25] Taxpayers Association. Let's go now to

[2:26:28] the next slide. Okay. So, this is where

[2:26:31] we come in is I think Brent mentioned um

[2:26:34] that there's we've only raised taxes in

[2:26:36] twice since 12 years. I'm sorry, gone

[2:26:39] through the truth and taxation process.

[2:26:41] So, there's some cities that just

[2:26:42] routinely make little just adjustments

[2:26:45] for inflation every year for property

[2:26:47] tax and they just say truth and taxation

[2:26:50] is just going to be a standard process

[2:26:52] we just go through every year. Um when I

[2:26:54] went to the Utah League of City and

[2:26:56] Towns, this was discussed in that I took

[2:26:58] a truth and taxation class. Some feel

[2:27:00] like it's better to just keep up with

[2:27:02] inflation than they get way behind and

[2:27:04] then do this huge 40% jump like we chose

[2:27:07] to do. That's been our policy. So, um

[2:27:10] that's just some other cities are doing

[2:27:12] it differently. Other cities have chosen

[2:27:14] to use fees. Well, that's not even a

[2:27:17] choice anymore. They took that off the

[2:27:18] table. So, we can't do that. So, um, one

[2:27:22] of I picked this picture here because

[2:27:24] how do we, um, what we need to do as a

[2:27:27] council is balance our fiduciary

[2:27:29] responsibility to provide services with

[2:27:32] a burden of taxes for our residents and

[2:27:35] looking at things from a different

[2:27:37] perspective like the um the the report

[2:27:41] from the Utah Taxpayers Association that

[2:27:43] brings it down to like a per capita

[2:27:45] level is really insightful versus like

[2:27:47] looking at everything in just total

[2:27:49] numbers. So, it's just something to

[2:27:51] think about. Um, this is not we're not

[2:27:53] making any policy decisions here, but

[2:27:55] just um educating ourselves. So, um I

[2:27:59] think when um Steve Burroughs talked

[2:28:00] about um land use and water, they are

[2:28:04] they're in inf they're tied very tightly

[2:28:07] together. Well, you know what? Revenue

[2:28:10] and um land use are very tied very

[2:28:13] tightly together. and um our brand new

[2:28:16] city assistant administrator gave a

[2:28:18] presentation when he worked in a

[2:28:20] different city and he's going to share

[2:28:21] some insights right now.

[2:28:24] Thank you, Council Member Hanamman. So,

[2:28:26] yeah, just to think about it, um how we

[2:28:30] use our land and how that reflects on

[2:28:32] our on our budget bottom lines. So, you

[2:28:35] can see in this top right corner, um

[2:28:38] there's two different parcels here that

[2:28:40] are being shown. Let me zoom in a little

[2:28:42] bit. One is um on a main street and one

[2:28:46] is in a traditional suburban

[2:28:48] development. They're both about uh worth

[2:28:51] an acre or sorry a million dollars or

[2:28:53] more. Uh but this one is on5 of an acre

[2:28:58] and this one is 1.1 acre. If you just do

[2:29:02] basic math and try to determine how much

[2:29:06] uh what's the value per acre of each of

[2:29:08] these parcels, you can see that this

[2:29:11] parcel, if you go up to an acre, is

[2:29:13] valued at almost $10 million, which

[2:29:16] would be $102,000 of taxes per acre. And

[2:29:20] then this one would be a lot less than

[2:29:23] that over

[2:29:26] u well, this would be 23 times more

[2:29:28] valuable than this one. So, I think this

[2:29:31] is just trying to show that land use and

[2:29:34] how we determine we're going to use our

[2:29:35] land definitely affects uh the revenue

[2:29:39] we can generate from each parcel. Um,

[2:29:42] obviously

[2:29:44] balancing mixed use with residential is

[2:29:46] always the goal of a city. You don't

[2:29:48] want every parcel to be mixed use or

[2:29:50] commercial. Um, but it's always

[2:29:52] important to balance uh both those

[2:29:54] things to have a financially resilient

[2:29:56] city.

[2:29:58] We have forgot to mention, would you

[2:29:59] tell them about the the resident

[2:30:01] exclusion?

[2:30:04] >> Oh, yeah. And part of part of this this

[2:30:05] actually might be lower taxes per acre

[2:30:07] on the resident side because there's a

[2:30:08] 45%

[2:30:10] uh resident reduction in the state of

[2:30:12] Utah for for taxes on on their home and

[2:30:15] one acre of their property. So, um so

[2:30:18] it's even cheaper per acre for

[2:30:20] residential parcels.

[2:30:23] So, and commercial properties are 100%

[2:30:26] taxed. So they're a lot more valuable

[2:30:28] for city re revenue.

[2:30:32] >> Yeah.

[2:30:33] >> Okay. Your next slide. I think you're

[2:30:36] still on the next one. Oh no. This is

[2:30:38] this I already I already got on my soap

[2:30:40] box about how Oh, I know. I know at this

[2:30:43] point. Then I'm going to give it back to

[2:30:44] Kaden. This one I was saying um if you

[2:30:48] like what's the most important thing for us to to provide services? Well, it

[2:30:53] really depends on the person you talk

[2:30:55] to. Even women have different values

[2:30:58] than men. And so you can't always base

[2:31:01] decisions based on the three people that

[2:31:03] you talk to or that are on your text

[2:31:05] string. We have to look for more data to

[2:31:08] understand. And so um o down here is

[2:31:12] where do we rank um with the o our

[2:31:15] overall tax burden and we're 19th in the

[2:31:18] country um but only 38th in property tax

[2:31:22] which means we have a low property tax

[2:31:24] burden. But if you look at mandatory

[2:31:26] fees, didn't we just talk about fees?

[2:31:28] We're seventh. So we we really use fees

[2:31:31] as a way to drive revenue in the state

[2:31:33] of Utah. Just just thinking about how do

[2:31:36] we generate revenue and if you lived in

[2:31:38] a different neighboring city, they would

[2:31:39] be generating it a different way. Okay.

[2:31:41] I Kaden, I think you're the next one,

[2:31:43] too.

[2:31:43] >> Yeah, you are.

[2:31:44] >> So just two graphics here. I like that

[2:31:46] Chrissy put in here. Land uses the

[2:31:47] invisible hand. So we have this graphic

[2:31:50] that shows the comparison of a

[2:31:51] traditional downtown mixeduse building.

[2:31:54] uh with both residences and commercial

[2:31:56] uses and then just like a traditional

[2:31:58] big box store, Walmart. Um a big box

[2:32:01] store consumes way more land and the

[2:32:05] total property taxes per acre are

[2:32:07] roughly 97 times higher for the a

[2:32:11] mixeduse building in on a main street

[2:32:13] than a big box store. Um there's more

[2:32:18] jobs that could be created per acre. um

[2:32:21] residents living there per acre and

[2:32:24] sales tax uh per acre as well. So um the

[2:32:27] cool thing about land use, it's really

[2:32:28] just thinking about how you're using

[2:32:30] each acre of your of your land in your

[2:32:32] city because the most valuable resource,

[2:32:34] as we learned today, is water and land

[2:32:38] in a city. Um this graphic also shows

[2:32:41] kind of the same thing. So you can see

[2:32:43] 44 acres are needed for this uh big box

[2:32:47] store to operate. You can look in these

[2:32:49] little

[2:32:51] uh snapshots of how how much land that

[2:32:54] takes up compared to a main street in

[2:32:56] all these different cities in North

[2:32:57] Carolina.

[2:32:59] Um the the dark red on the main street

[2:33:02] shows value per acre. And so you can see

[2:33:05] how valuable kind of those parcels are

[2:33:06] on the main street uh of these of these

[2:33:09] towns. And also shows it here kind of

[2:33:13] the value per acre of each parcel if you were to take it out to an acre.

[2:33:17] So I think this just demonstrates like

[2:33:19] really per acre if you had 44 acres of

[2:33:24] productive mixeduse buildings which

[2:33:26] obviously is unrealistic but just for

[2:33:28] the hypothetical they would be way more

[2:33:31] revenue generating for a city than even

[2:33:34] a traditional big box store which

[2:33:36] usually everyone totes as the the best

[2:33:39] way to generate sales tax for a city. Um

[2:33:42] so just keeping that in mind really it's

[2:33:44] just how we use our land what we allow

[2:33:47] um balancing mixed uh mixed uses

[2:33:50] residential commercial um remembering

[2:33:53] that land is our most valuable resource

[2:33:54] to generate revenue.

[2:33:57] >> Thank you.

[2:33:59] Okay. What's our next slide? I can't

[2:34:02] remember. Okay. All right. So, one thing

[2:34:05] again by working with the um state tax

[2:34:08] commission in our in our deep dive into

[2:34:11] revenue sales tax only, we spent a full

[2:34:14] hour on it. The person that was teaching

[2:34:16] us mentioned that when we annex um land

[2:34:20] into our city, we need to work with them

[2:34:22] so that we're now collecting those

[2:34:24] revenues. So without changing the

[2:34:27] dynamics of um you know like like Kaden

[2:34:32] mentioned like building our downtown

[2:34:33] area or changing density any of those

[2:34:36] kinds of things um just getting property

[2:34:40] annexed will add to our sales tax. Also

[2:34:44] property tax um when you are annexed

[2:34:47] into the city you can get you will get

[2:34:49] we will collect those taxes as well. So

[2:34:52] other than annexation, we don't really

[2:34:55] have any levers to pull for sales tax.

[2:34:58] Like there's nothing really to do. Um I

[2:35:01] mean we can we can encourage or

[2:35:04] incentivize retail space here, but our

[2:35:07] residents are not pro- retail. So I

[2:35:10] think later in our meeting we might be

[2:35:12] talking about one retail store that you

[2:35:15] know may work in our that would work in

[2:35:17] our city and that is like pretty niche.

[2:35:20] You know, we always talk about Burgess

[2:35:22] Orchard, but Burgess Orchard, the the

[2:35:24] sales per visit is pretty low. And so we

[2:35:28] when we talk about things, the invisible

[2:35:31] hand being whether we're talking about

[2:35:33] annexation or um let's go to the next

[2:35:35] one. I think that's my last thing.

[2:35:38] Whether we're talking about annexation

[2:35:39] or density or um or commercial versus

[2:35:43] zoning, commercial versus residential,

[2:35:46] like sometimes we're talking about

[2:35:47] height, we're talking about setbacks,

[2:35:49] we're talking about uh parking, we're

[2:35:52] talking about design. Let's not forget

[2:35:54] to talk about what is the impact of

[2:35:56] revenue. Okay? When we're talking about

[2:35:58] annexation, we talk a lot about the

[2:36:00] trails. We talk a lot about, you know,

[2:36:03] what is the density, what is the slope,

[2:36:05] you know, all of these things. Did we

[2:36:07] talk about the revenue that's that's

[2:36:09] generated by the annexation? And I just

[2:36:11] feel like that that we now that we

[2:36:13] understand it, it can be part of our

[2:36:15] discussion.

[2:36:16] >> And if you recall in the prior council

[2:36:18] when there was an annexation petition,

[2:36:20] you and I voted for it. We talked about

[2:36:21] the increase in property taxes, but I

[2:36:24] for failed to realize that of those 58

[2:36:27] homes, there's also an e-commerce sales

[2:36:30] tax revenue increase,

[2:36:31] >> right,

[2:36:32] >> that we didn't talk about. So that's

[2:36:34] very helpful for that, too. So, in all

[2:36:35] of these three things we've talked

[2:36:36] about, remember these are ongoing

[2:36:38] revenues. And this these are things you

[2:36:40] can budget. You can budget for raises,

[2:36:42] you can budget for um additional staff,

[2:36:45] you can budget for things that are we

[2:36:47] need to maintain our level of service,

[2:36:50] but grants are great, but they just come

[2:36:52] once and they you know what I mean? And

[2:36:54] so, don't count on them to pay for their

[2:36:57] ongoing cost of the city. So, again, I'm

[2:36:59] going to use my same quote um as we

[2:37:02] continue to have these discussions. That

[2:37:04] was the whole point of um talking about

[2:37:07] these topics was the future is not

[2:37:09] something that you enter, it is

[2:37:11] something that you create. Think about

[2:37:13] our future. That's my final quote of the

[2:37:15] day.

[2:37:15] >> See, thank you very much Chrissy and

[2:37:17] Kaden for that. And in the interest of

[2:37:19] time, if you have any any additional

[2:37:21] questions or thoughts you'd like to

[2:37:22] share, we can do that amongst ourselves

[2:37:24] as this is not an action item.

[2:37:26] >> Uh Mayor Rumler, just one quick thing.

[2:37:29] It's because it's an

[2:37:31] >> 10 please or whatever.

[2:37:33] It's an ask for help. So, just one thing

[2:37:35] as it's on this topic, it won't get

[2:37:36] brought up. Thank you. And I love the

[2:37:38] quotes. One thing I could use some help

[2:37:40] with. So, I was talking to the assessor

[2:37:43] yesterday and I said, "Look, I know you

[2:37:45] keep shifting from property tax to sales

[2:37:48] tax and you just keep saying there

[2:37:50] should is there any other option that

[2:37:52] people are going outside of these to

[2:37:54] find other sources of revenues?" He

[2:37:56] said, "Yeah, there's a couple, but one

[2:37:57] you're going to hate, but if you can

[2:37:59] figure out a different way for Utah or

[2:38:01] for Alpine, it'll really help." So,

[2:38:02] that's why I was hoping you put your

[2:38:03] thinking caps on because, you know, all

[2:38:05] of our minds. So, the big one is the

[2:38:07] lottery. That's what other people are

[2:38:09] doing.

[2:38:10] >> Obviously, we hate the Oh, sorry. I do

[2:38:12] not like the lottery. Maybe you like uh

[2:38:14] and so, but if you can think of

[2:38:15] something like that, that is what other

[2:38:18] places do to take the burden off the

[2:38:21] residents from sales tax and property

[2:38:23] tax. Um he also said mines. Some some

[2:38:27] cities have mines, some cities have um

[2:38:31] uh utilities. Now those are probably not

[2:38:34] in our wheelhouse, but if we can come up

[2:38:36] with some creative options that can

[2:38:37] allow us to increase our This is what

[2:38:39] he's saying. You can come up with these.

[2:38:40] The residents can come up with these. If

[2:38:42] you can figure out something uh

[2:38:45] basically the opposite of the lottery,

[2:38:46] but does the same thing. You can reduce

[2:38:48] your property taxes dramatically. reduce

[2:38:50] your sales tax or you don't need to.

[2:38:53] You're not required to get so much

[2:38:54] because you're getting so much from this

[2:38:55] other source. That's all I was going to

[2:38:56] say. So, if you have any other ideas,

[2:38:58] I'm searching trying. If you have better

[2:39:00] ones, let me know. Okay. Same with the

[2:39:01] residents. If you come up with anything.

[2:39:04] All right. Thank you. All right. We will

[2:39:07] move to the action item portion of our

[2:39:10] agenda. And Chris, you I think you came

[2:39:13] after this, but we moved action item A

[2:39:15] into the consent calendar and was

[2:39:16] approved there. It was just a

[2:39:18] clarification from the motion from two

[2:39:19] weeks ago. All right, we'll talk about

[2:39:21] the site plan approval. Long range

[2:39:23] shooters of Utah and I'll have I'll ask

[2:39:26] our staff to present that.

[2:39:30] Thank you, council member. So, I think

[2:39:32] everyone is familiar with this now. Um

[2:39:36] it's been on the on the agenda a few

[2:39:37] times now. So I won't go into a lot of

[2:39:39] detail on on the background, but um this

[2:39:42] is for a new uh retail

[2:39:45] uh small retail gun shop to provide u

[2:39:48] you know different things like

[2:39:49] accessories, bipods, rifles, and it

[2:39:52] includes a warehouse space for office

[2:39:54] and space for uh to film content in and

[2:39:57] a residence above the office area. So,

[2:40:00] the last time this was brought before

[2:40:01] council, it was tabled to consider

[2:40:06] getting an exception to the parking lot

[2:40:08] code for stall one and to provide a

[2:40:10] sweat path analysis for the parking. So,

[2:40:13] the parking stall one since it's a

[2:40:14] 90°ree parking stall, it requires 42

[2:40:17] feet 24T of aisle space for backing out.

[2:40:21] And so, the applicant has met that

[2:40:23] requirement and updated their site plan

[2:40:26] uh accordingly. And additionally, the

[2:40:29] staff went through a sweep path analysis

[2:40:32] with an engineering consultant. And the

[2:40:34] results from that sweep path analysis

[2:40:37] demonstrate the ability for vehicles to

[2:40:39] back out of the parking stalls and exit

[2:40:40] the site in a forward motion as required

[2:40:42] by by code.

[2:40:45] So, it was motioned in the that the

[2:40:47] applicant return to the planning

[2:40:48] commission to receive the parking lot

[2:40:50] exception in 32430 of the Alpine

[2:40:53] Development Code. Since the motion was

[2:40:55] made, as I was just talking about, the

[2:40:57] applicant has shifted their site plan to

[2:40:58] meet all code requirements and therefore

[2:41:00] no longer is in need of the exception.

[2:41:03] So a return to plan commission would be

[2:41:05] ineffective. And so per Alpine City

[2:41:07] Attorney's suggestion and because they

[2:41:09] no longer need the exception, the

[2:41:11] council u should consider entertaining a

[2:41:14] motion tonight to recognize the SWAT

[2:41:16] path analysis performed and excuse staff

[2:41:19] from referring the application to the

[2:41:20] planning commission so that the council

[2:41:22] can consider the site plan in this

[2:41:24] meeting. So I have a motion for the

[2:41:26] council to do that tonight. Um

[2:41:30] and the staff would recommend that they

[2:41:32] consider doing that. uh consider the

[2:41:35] site plan uh because it meets uh the it

[2:41:39] didn't need the exception and has been

[2:41:42] referred back to the council to motion

[2:41:44] to allow them to the council to consider

[2:41:46] it tonight and then to go forward and

[2:41:49] approve the site plan being that it

[2:41:51] meets the code requirements.

[2:41:54] That was a lot of talking. Let me just

[2:41:56] go now to the site plan.

[2:42:01] Katie, while you're going there, will

[2:42:02] you just um just let us know when was

[2:42:05] this last updated? Just

[2:42:08] >> Yeah. So, this last week.

[2:42:10] >> This last week before Friday.

[2:42:12] >> Yes.

[2:42:12] >> Okay.

[2:42:12] >> Yes. In fact, now I think I might be

[2:42:15] jumping the gun. Steve, should they do

[2:42:17] the motion first um to consider the item

[2:42:20] tonight? Would you say

[2:42:28] » you could? I don't think it's necessary.

[2:42:30] As long as you incorporate in the

[2:42:32] motion, the suggested motion from staff,

[2:42:34] I think that takes care of the um what

[2:42:38] the item was tabled for and you

[2:42:41] recognize that in your motion to approve

[2:42:44] or to deny.

[2:42:46] >> So combine the two then in that way.

[2:42:49] >> Yeah, I think I would just follow the

[2:42:51] suggested motion in the staff report.

[2:42:53] >> Great.

[2:42:56] » We got an email today. At least I

[2:42:59] received an email. I showed it to Shane

[2:43:00] right before the meeting. I think you

[2:43:02] got a copy of it from the applicant with

[2:43:05] a uh a couple of different things. One

[2:43:08] included a in response to neighbors

[2:43:11] concerns about addition concerns about

[2:43:15] the parking the vehicles backing up into

[2:43:18] the onto the sidewalk. The applicant

[2:43:21] added to metal planters between the

[2:43:23] parking lot and the sidewalk to create

[2:43:25] that kind of barrier. Yeah, that's why I was asking what when how up

[2:43:31] to date is the

[2:43:33] >> right stuff.

[2:43:33] >> Yeah, so that is reflected that this was

[2:43:36] that was added to the packet to show

[2:43:38] those planter boxes.

[2:43:40] >> Um the the landscaping plan was provided

[2:43:44] after last weekend.

[2:43:45] >> Yeah.

[2:43:46] >> Okay. So, we don't need to make mo a

[2:43:48] mention of that in the motion. That's

[2:43:49] what Shane had recommended if it if this

[2:43:51] didn't already consider that.

[2:43:54] >> Yeah. I I don't think so. I think you

[2:43:55] can consider it just saying the

[2:43:57] landscape planners were presented today.

[2:43:59] Um, both are actually included here. I

[2:44:02] can show both here. All it does is show

[2:44:04] those new planner boxes and um and

[2:44:08] that's really it. So,

[2:44:11] >> and just I I want I'm not going to

[2:44:12] repeat what I what I talked about two meetings ago twice. Well, we t this

[2:44:18] is the third time we've talked about

[2:44:19] this.

[2:44:19] >> Correct.

[2:44:20] >> Um,

[2:44:21] and I was Yeah. Okay.

[2:44:24] And I did listen to the discussion from

[2:44:27] two weeks ago when I was um overseas and

[2:44:29] wasn't able to participate. I just like

[2:44:32] to have you clarify why what in what of the ordinance of our statute re

[2:44:38] um as you recommend that we approve

[2:44:41] this. It's the wording is is shall

[2:44:44] recommend if it meets the requirements.

[2:44:45] Right.

[2:44:46] >> Right.

[2:44:47] >> Okay.

[2:44:48] >> Yes.

[2:44:48] >> Just want to clarify that. Okay. Any

[2:44:50] other questions for

[2:44:53] >> I think that's just reflective of the

[2:44:56] fact that this is an administrative

[2:44:57] decision and the council as a

[2:45:01] legislative body doesn't always get

[2:45:02] involved in administrative decisions

[2:45:05] according to our ordinance. This is an

[2:45:07] administrative decision the council can

[2:45:09] make. But I would stick with does this

[2:45:12] meet the code or doesn't it meet the

[2:45:15] code? Not do we like it aesthetically?

[2:45:18] Do we, you know, do we think as a policy

[2:45:20] matter it's a good or a bad idea to be

[2:45:23] in this location.

[2:45:24] >> Thank you for asking.

[2:45:25] >> Whether it meets the code,

[2:45:26] >> right? And the reason it was tabled last

[2:45:28] time was for a very specific reason

[2:45:30] that's been addressed.

[2:45:32] >> That's correct.

[2:45:33] >> So, if there are no further questions,

[2:45:34] if if anyone would like to make a

[2:45:35] motion.

[2:45:36] >> Can can I make a few comments?

[2:45:38] >> Oh, sure.

[2:45:39] >> Um, I'm just I would ask you because

[2:45:41] you're acting as mayor. um some of the

[2:45:44] residents didn't get a opportunity to

[2:45:47] make public comment and I know we've

[2:45:48] received lots of emails. Is that

[2:45:50] something that we could still facilitate

[2:45:52] for those residents?

[2:45:53] >> So, I would defer to what the mayor has

[2:45:57] um her the position that has been done

[2:45:59] in the past in the past meetings and to

[2:46:02] our guidance from our from our attorney

[2:46:07] on the public comment.

[2:46:09] >> I think that's that's up to the mayor

[2:46:11] prom. Um, the fact that they've already

[2:46:14] submitted emails tells me that the

[2:46:16] council has reviewed their comments. If

[2:46:19] it's helpful to hear it verbally here

[2:46:21] and orally in a meeting, then that's

[2:46:23] something you could take into

[2:46:24] consideration. But they've already submitted comments.

[2:46:29] So, I' I've personally read every single

[2:46:31] email and and I and I do appreciate

[2:46:35] every email that was sent and all the

[2:46:37] points that were made. And I also

[2:46:38] appreciate the applicant considering

[2:46:40] those um requests of the neighbors as

[2:46:42] well. I think the applicant meets the

[2:46:45] ordinance and has done a a commendable

[2:46:49] job of trying to work with the

[2:46:51] neighbors. I know it's not the ideal

[2:46:53] situation for some of the neighbors. Um

[2:46:55] but I do commend the applicant for for

[2:46:57] what they've done even today for

[2:46:59] addressing Mr. um Marvin Payne. I

[2:47:02] appreciate your text yesterday. Sorry I

[2:47:04] didn't respond. just getting back into

[2:47:05] the country and trying to get get caught

[2:47:09] up to everything. And you recommended a

[2:47:11] two-ft wall along that path and just the

[2:47:15] next day the applicant came back and

[2:47:17] said, "We've put planters in to address

[2:47:19] those concerns about the neighbors." So,

[2:47:21] I do appreciate that. Um, has anyone not

[2:47:25] had a chance to review all those emails?

[2:47:27] I think I'm going to stick then with

[2:47:29] what the mayor Merryill has has decided

[2:47:32] in the past and stick with our policy.

[2:47:35] >> Am I okay then to make a few question or

[2:47:38] ask a few questions, make a few

[2:47:40] comments?

[2:47:40] >> Sure.

[2:47:41] >> Okay. Are we starting that

[2:47:43] >> questions of related to this staff

[2:47:46] report or

[2:47:47] >> Yes.

[2:47:47] >> Okay. Is it that or do we do a motion

[2:47:49] and then we discuss the motion?

[2:47:52] >> I'm fine with you making go ahead and

[2:47:54] make comments. Well, I just since some

[2:47:56] of the residents were unable to make a

[2:47:57] public comment regarding this action

[2:47:59] item, as a representative of the

[2:48:01] residents, I felt it necessary for their

[2:48:04] concerns to be noted on public record.

[2:48:07] And so, I just wanted to briefly just

[2:48:09] mention some of these. Um, the primary

[2:48:12] concern that I have received that you

[2:48:14] all probably have received in your

[2:48:15] emails from them is about safety. And I

[2:48:18] really do appreciate the efforts that

[2:48:20] have been taken to do a sweat path

[2:48:21] analysis. Um, one of those concerns from

[2:48:24] the residents is, is it possible for a

[2:48:27] vehicle larger than 19 ft to exit the

[2:48:29] parking lot? Um, and what length of

[2:48:32] vehicle was used for that sweat path

[2:48:35] analysis. Um, just for reference, a

[2:48:38] pickup truck or SUV is typically 18 to

[2:48:40] 22 feet. So, I was just curious if you

[2:48:43] could give us an idea of the

[2:48:49] >> So, the industry standard is 7 by 19 ft.

[2:48:52] That's according to Ashtto engineering

[2:48:54] it guidelines and so that was what was

[2:48:56] used in the sweatpath analysis.

[2:48:59] >> Yeah,

[2:48:59] >> thank you.

[2:49:01] >> Um, is this developer required to

[2:49:03] provide visual and structural

[2:49:04] protections perhaps in the form of some

[2:49:07] type of buffer or fence between them and

[2:49:09] another property

[2:49:11] >> only where the parking exists. That that

[2:49:15] is what is required in the code. So, not

[2:49:17] on any of the north, east, or west um

[2:49:21] borders to the neighboring properties,

[2:49:23] >> right? Only only where the parking is.

[2:49:27] >> Yeah.

[2:49:28] >> Okay. And just out of curiosity, would

[2:49:29] the setbacks how would the setbacks be

[2:49:32] different if this were a home being

[2:49:34] built there versus a commercial

[2:49:36] building?

[2:49:37] >> That is a good question. I think it

[2:49:39] would be a little bit deeper. Um since

[2:49:41] I'm new here, I don't actually know the

[2:49:43] TR 10,000 for that. Setbacks 30 ft, rear

[2:49:48] 20, minimum 10 foot on a side with a

[2:49:51] total of 22.

[2:49:54] >> Thank you.

[2:49:54] >> But for clarification, this is in the

[2:49:56] business commercial zone.

[2:49:57] >> Correct.

[2:49:58] >> Yes.

[2:49:59] >> Um

[2:50:01] uh can you just walk us through what

[2:50:03] changes the the applicant made as far as

[2:50:06] like the size or the footprint? You

[2:50:08] know, I know they started with how many

[2:50:10] times have they reduced it and do you

[2:50:12] know approximately by how much?

[2:50:14] >> Yeah. So originally the building was

[2:50:19] let's see I actually don't know the

[2:50:20] original size but I know it has been

[2:50:21] reduced by 789 square feet since the

[2:50:25] original proposal. Um I can show that

[2:50:28] here.

[2:50:34] So, the retail was pushing 2,000

[2:50:39] 8 like 1,900

[2:50:41] and the garage was over 2,200 here. So,

[2:50:45] >> thank you. Um, and just to clarify on

[2:50:48] why this didn't go back to planning

[2:50:50] commission, that was more according to Steve like an

[2:50:53] administrative decision because it

[2:50:55] didn't no longer stop the exception.

[2:50:57] >> Correct.

[2:50:57] >> I just want to make sure I understand

[2:50:59] that. And then um this is I guess a

[2:51:01] little more for the applicant is do you

[2:51:04] intend on having deliveries made by

[2:51:06] large delivery trucks? Um and then if

[2:51:10] so, what is the path that you see these

[2:51:12] trucks operating?

[2:51:15] >> I can speak to that real quick and then

[2:51:17] maybe the applicant can I I know that

[2:51:19] they're not planning on large delivery

[2:51:21] trucks. Anything that would go to a home

[2:51:24] is what they're intending.

[2:51:26] >> So UPS drop off Amazon. Yeah, is all

[2:51:30] that would be dropping off.

[2:51:32] >> Okay, thanks. Um I Yeah, I guess if you

[2:51:34] have more to add, that's great.

[2:51:39] >> If that's okay.

[2:51:40] >> Absolutely. [laughter]

[2:51:41] >> And Sarah, thank you. I think this is a

[2:51:43] very good way to do it and that's how

[2:51:44] we've done it in the past is bring it up

[2:51:46] with as council members.

[2:51:48] >> That's right.

[2:51:49] >> Excellent.

[2:51:49] >> Okay. Your instincts are right on

[2:51:51] >> to speak. He he was we did the swept

[2:51:53] analysis together. I paid for it. Um, we

[2:51:57] went as so far as to have the sweep path

[2:51:59] guy actually take a UPS truck, the

[2:52:01] biggest truck they could do, and show

[2:52:02] that it could enter the parking lot and

[2:52:04] exit the parking lot. Janice Aiden, you

[2:52:07] guys may know her. She lives on my

[2:52:08] street. She's about the sweetest human

[2:52:10] being on the planet. When she saw the

[2:52:12] posts on the Facebook group, she

[2:52:14] commented and said, "I know those guys

[2:52:16] really well. They're my neighbor, and I

[2:52:18] never knew over the past 10 years that

[2:52:20] they'd running a business out of there.

[2:52:21] That's not going to change. We don't

[2:52:23] expect freight. It's Amazon, it's UPS,

[2:52:26] it's FedEx, and again, not that much. I

[2:52:29] mean, no, no more than any of our

[2:52:31] neighbors have ever gotten. So, um, I

[2:52:34] would say we're not going to get any

[2:52:35] more than the residents are, and we have

[2:52:37] a big parking lot for them to park in

[2:52:38] while they deliver where most people do

[2:52:40] not have that. They have to park on the

[2:52:41] street. So,

[2:52:42] >> thank you.

[2:52:46] » I don't have a crystal ball, and I don't

[2:52:47] think anybody else does either, but we

[2:52:48] have a nice big parking lot.

[2:52:51] We don't have a giant warehouse. It's a

[2:52:53] garage now. Now we remove seven feet

[2:52:54] from the front of it. So it's not

[2:52:56] terribly big. So it's not as if it's a

[2:52:59] freight dock. It's not purple mattress.

[2:53:01] >> And and the planters, I appreciate your

[2:53:03] email today. Um how how tall are those?

[2:53:06] Just

[2:53:07] >> I mean we can make them as tall as you

[2:53:09] want. We were thinking like 36 in.

[2:53:11] >> Oh yeah.

[2:53:12] >> It just kind of depends on what's

[2:53:13] available in the market and what what's

[2:53:15] reasonable because they have to be kind

[2:53:16] of skinny to fit in that space. So,

[2:53:18] >> right.

[2:53:19] >> Tall enough that a F-150 can't back over

[2:53:22] it and hit the sidewalk is the point.

[2:53:24] >> Okay. Yeah, that was just a concern of

[2:53:26] like

[2:53:26] >> exactly why we put them in there.

[2:53:28] >> Yes. Okay. I just wanted

[2:53:29] >> provided examples too what they look

[2:53:31] like.

[2:53:31] >> Great. I just wanted you to be able to

[2:53:33] mention that today. Yeah. Thank you. Um

[2:53:36] and then um just in conclusion, my

[2:53:39] purpose is to represent the voice of the

[2:53:42] residents. I feel like it's also to

[2:53:44] ensure that we're following our own

[2:53:45] procedures and codes. And I've heard

[2:53:49] various things from residents on both

[2:53:50] sides of this action item. And

[2:53:52] ultimately, if an applicant meets our

[2:53:54] requirements, regardless of any sort of

[2:53:57] personal feelings or whatever, I feel

[2:53:59] like ultimately it's my obligation to

[2:54:01] follow our code. Um, and I just want to

[2:54:04] explain the process. If we choose not to

[2:54:06] follow, then it goes to he um the

[2:54:09] applicant can appeal and then it's heard

[2:54:12] by um I don't know the official type,

[2:54:15] but it ends up

[2:54:16] >> hearing officer

[2:54:16] >> hearing officers. Thank you, Shane. And

[2:54:18] then it ends up cost we pay for that. So

[2:54:21] is that is that correct?

[2:54:23] >> There's actually an application fee, but

[2:54:25] if the cost exceeds that the way it's

[2:54:26] set up right now, then the city eats it.

[2:54:29] >> Yeah. And then so it ends up costing the

[2:54:31] city more money. Um and um I believe the

[2:54:36] reason why this has come three times is

[2:54:37] because we're we're been trying to work

[2:54:39] through some of the ambiguity in our

[2:54:41] code. And um just I mean this has been a

[2:54:45] great experience. Not probably not for

[2:54:47] everyone, [laughter] but the silver

[2:54:49] lining is is that there's a few things

[2:54:51] that have come to light throughout the

[2:54:53] situation. Maybe, you know, just a more

[2:54:56] thoughtful approach on our zoning, visi

[2:54:59] revisiting our parking codes, some

[2:55:01] procedural clarification, maybe looking

[2:55:04] into bulk and massing, and just making

[2:55:06] sure our historic design guidelines need

[2:55:08] to be more precise. And I just feel like

[2:55:10] if you know on our end, those are some

[2:55:12] takeaways that maybe would have helped

[2:55:14] the applicants and the residents a

[2:55:16] little bit more. So, moving forward, you

[2:55:18] know, I see that as my

[2:55:20] >> maybe role moving forward with

[2:55:22] pertaining to this situation. So, thank

[2:55:24] you.

[2:55:25] >> Thank you, sir. Uh, Chrissy, do you have

[2:55:27] any questions for the applicant or for

[2:55:28] our staff?

[2:55:29] >> No, thank you for going over all that in

[2:55:31] detail. I appreciate it.

[2:55:32] >> Uh, Andrew, do you have any questions

[2:55:34] for staff or

[2:55:35] >> uh that was good. Thanks for all the

[2:55:37] questions, Sarah. A lot of those were

[2:55:39] the same ones I had.

[2:55:41] >> Is it uh is it okay? I know you have the

[2:55:44] policy, but

[2:55:47] >> pardon what? Is it

[2:55:49] >> you talk to us? There seems to be uh

[2:55:52] some residents that feel um can I use my

[2:55:56] time to let them say a couple things

[2:55:57] just so there's a little bit of equal

[2:55:59] time or can I ask them a couple

[2:56:01] questions?

[2:56:01] >> No, I no. I think we should stick with

[2:56:03] our our policy and the guidance from our

[2:56:05] attorney.

[2:56:06] >> Well, but uh we

[2:56:08] >> do you do you know what they are?

[2:56:10] >> No, I don't. Wait, wait, wait.

[2:56:11] >> Different than what the emails relayed?

[2:56:14] >> Well, no. I just saw and this is a

[2:56:17] little rare because we have they are

[2:56:19] both residents. Okay.

[2:56:21] >> This kind of the reason we stick with

[2:56:22] our ordinance we're going to stick with

[2:56:23] the policy.

[2:56:24] >> I think one thing to understand about a

[2:56:25] public meeting is we're having a a

[2:56:27] public meeting among us.

[2:56:29] >> No, I know. I know.

[2:56:30] >> And so,

[2:56:31] >> but at the end of

[2:56:32] >> a public it's a meeting in a public

[2:56:33] setting, but it's not a public hearing

[2:56:35] which when they have all the

[2:56:37] opportunities to talk. So, just

[2:56:39] understand there's a big difference

[2:56:40] between a public hearing and a public

[2:56:41] hearing.

[2:56:42] >> Okay. Just as from what we've been said,

[2:56:44] is there anything that we are missing

[2:56:46] that has not been brought up by any of

[2:56:48] the residents here besides

[2:56:51] >> is there something pertinent that we

[2:56:53] should know that has not been brought

[2:56:54] up? Is that an okay question to ask that

[2:56:57] wasn't in the emails or

[2:56:58] >> I think they've been pretty thorough in

[2:56:59] their their communications to to

[2:57:02] council.

[2:57:06] [clears throat]

[2:57:06] >> All right.

[2:57:07] Um, I will allow that

[2:57:08] question because that was brought up two meetings ago when I was

[2:57:12] participating.

[2:57:12] >> So, can

[2:57:13] >> is there any requirement for the

[2:57:14] dumpster to have to be have a setback

[2:57:16] for the dumpster?

[2:57:17] >> It can be by either the petitioner.

[2:57:19] >> Oh, sorry.

[2:57:20] >> First, I'll say if you can, as you can

[2:57:22] see here on the site plan, there's

[2:57:23] actually not a dumpster. It's just trash

[2:57:25] cans. Um there's a dumpster enclosure

[2:57:28] for those trash cans to keep them uh

[2:57:30] hidden from the street, but the

[2:57:32] applicant will pull those out every week

[2:57:34] for the uh to take the trash out. Um

[2:57:38] there the code just says that a dumpster

[2:57:41] site has to be located on the site plan.

[2:57:43] Doesn't indicate where it has to be. And

[2:57:45] I've driven around the city and a lot of

[2:57:47] commercial buildings around here have

[2:57:48] dumpsters in the setback.

[2:57:51] >> Andrew, do you have any other questions

[2:57:53] for staff?

[2:57:53] >> Three comments if that's okay. Uh the

[2:57:55] three comments are like uh what?

[2:57:58] >> Oh, before you do that, uh we're past 9

[2:58:00] o'clock, so we

[2:58:01] >> Yeah, go ahead.

[2:58:02] >> need to get a motion to extend the

[2:58:03] meeting past our 9:00.

[2:58:04] >> Well, I can make one. Make

[2:58:06] >> I Go ahead. I make a motion to extend

[2:58:09] the meeting to 910.

[2:58:11] >> Okay, we still have staff reports and

[2:58:14] council communications.

[2:58:16] >> How about

[2:58:18] >> Okay, I

[2:58:19] withdraw the motion. I amend the meeting

[2:58:22] to go to 9:20.

[2:58:24] I second that.

[2:58:26] >> Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any

[2:58:28] questions about the motion? All right,

[2:58:30] let's proceed with a roll call vote.

[2:58:33] >> Want to go first? Andrew.

[2:58:34] >> Andrew Young. I I Yes.

[2:58:36] >> Brent Rmer. Yes.

[2:58:37] >> Sarah Blockwell. Yes.

[2:58:38] >> Chrissy Henman. Yes.

[2:58:39] >> Okay. The motion passed. We will proceed

[2:58:41] until 9:20. So, you have just a few just

[2:58:44] maybe two or three minutes to

[2:58:46] >> Yep. very brief. Uh just two situations

[2:58:49] uh that I hope will be helpful. We have

[2:58:52] this same situation happening in three

[2:58:53] or four different areas of Alpine right

[2:58:55] now. Um, in two cases, one case the

[2:59:00] residents came together, found a

[2:59:02] compromise, and both are very happy.

[2:59:04] That's that's the dream. Uh, they did

[2:59:08] this after the vote was finished. So,

[2:59:10] you can still do that. That's my hope.

[2:59:13] We got a boardroom here. I think you're

[2:59:15] so close. Um, I like pray plead for

[2:59:18] that. They did it. It worked. It

[2:59:21] happened after the vote. We have another

[2:59:23] case, both with residents, both in a

[2:59:26] development, and they went the other

[2:59:28] route. Uh, lawyers, uh, appeals cost

[2:59:34] money, and in the end, it was just it's

[2:59:37] just going how it's going. And, uh,

[2:59:40] yeah, I I I don't

[2:59:42] we will probably end up in hopefully

[2:59:46] both those cases, but the first would be

[2:59:48] much better. Uh however, we've so that's

[2:59:52] the two comments. The next one is the

[2:59:54] situation we're in. Like uh our attorney

[2:59:58] Steve Doy, Mr. Doc has explained, this

[3:00:01] is administrative where we're supposed

[3:00:03] to make a decision based on what the

[3:00:05] code says.

[3:00:07] Okay,

[3:00:09] that's how it's so supposed to be. We're

[3:00:12] supposed to follow the law, right? It's

[3:00:14] just supposed to be cut and dry. Uh for

[3:00:18] me the problem is when you get on this

[3:00:19] side or when you go to the capital or

[3:00:21] you find out how the laws are made um

[3:00:25] they are not perfect and uh that doesn't

[3:00:29] mean we don't have to abide by them. We

[3:00:30] have to abide by them. Uh but the ask

[3:00:34] from staff is that as we try the only

[3:00:37] way this could have been fixed

[3:00:40] well one way it could have been fixed is

[3:00:43] to have gone back and amended the

[3:00:45] zoning. Okay. Still hopefully providing

[3:00:47] a lot where uh resident petitioner could

[3:00:50] still pursue a business in a business

[3:00:52] commercial zone that wasn't so close to

[3:00:54] residential that we we can't we can't go

[3:00:56] back and do that. Um especially now we

[3:01:00] can do it after this. The problem I'm

[3:01:02] running into as a city councelor very

[3:01:05] much uh not the normal type is how long

[3:01:10] and difficult it is to amend the

[3:01:12] ordinances.

[3:01:15] uh it's very difficult. We're trying to

[3:01:17] do it. It's not working. So, we can't

[3:01:20] really help these residents fix this.

[3:01:22] And so, what we're running into it, like

[3:01:25] the next problem that's going to happen

[3:01:26] is going to be in two weeks. But, we're

[3:01:28] really struggling to get ahead of them

[3:01:31] and amend these ordinances because we'll

[3:01:34] send them to you, but they'll come back

[3:01:36] changed or they'll just take a long

[3:01:38] time. And I know we had hiring

[3:01:40] difficulties, so that changes things.

[3:01:43] Anyways, it creates a a storm that we

[3:01:46] have in like four or five parts of the

[3:01:48] city.

[3:01:50] Uh so anyways, we need to figure that

[3:01:52] out how we do that and how we get these

[3:01:55] done because right now it's reaction

[3:01:57] based. Someone comes with a crisis, we

[3:01:58] try to change the ordinances after to

[3:02:01] address it. And we're still blocked.

[3:02:04] Like for example, Chrissy and Brent,

[3:02:06] you've been on the council for how long?

[3:02:07] Five year, four, three years.

[3:02:08] >> Two and a half. like how many ordinances

[3:02:10] have you guys written that have changed

[3:02:12] the ordinances in that time? It's it's

[3:02:15] very little, I would imagine, if any.

[3:02:18] And so we we're trying our hardest. Um

[3:02:22] but we are finding ourselves trapped. We

[3:02:24] are elected by people who are telling us

[3:02:26] what to do and what they want, but the

[3:02:29] ordinances are blocking us. And then

[3:02:32] when we try to change the ordinance,

[3:02:33] we're reaching a lot of difficulties.

[3:02:35] And I'm not saying that's your fault.

[3:02:37] Alls I'll say to that is

[3:02:38] >> please.

[3:02:38] >> Yeah.

[3:02:39] >> Having practiced land use law in the in

[3:02:42] a prior career,

[3:02:44] >> which is awesome,

[3:02:44] >> is that you have ordinances. They're not

[3:02:46] perfect. You're right. The our our

[3:02:48] ordinances are not perfect and we

[3:02:50] identify maybe deficiencies or gaps or

[3:02:53] areas of improvement and we work through

[3:02:54] the process. Two council members suggest

[3:02:56] it. And I understand you've expressed it

[3:02:58] before that you've been disappointed

[3:03:00] with the speed of how things have gone

[3:03:02] on your fence things and some other

[3:03:04] things. So maybe we can work on that

[3:03:05] with staff and prioritize.

[3:03:07] >> Um but anything more specific to this

[3:03:09] decision tonight so we can end in our 12

[3:03:12] minutes we have.

[3:03:13] >> Yes. Yes. Uh

[3:03:14] >> we're at four minutes.

[3:03:16] >> It's just I hope you go for the first

[3:03:18] story. I think you can do it. It

[3:03:20] happened. I hope you I know it's not

[3:03:22] simple. I know it's a dream. I hope you

[3:03:23] can do it. Just keep it as an option. I

[3:03:25] plead.

[3:03:26] >> All right. Thank you very much.

[3:03:28] >> I'm ready to make the motion.

[3:03:30] >> We're going to go ahead and

[3:03:31] >> I need to make the motion. And just

[3:03:33] would just want to clarify Shane that we

[3:03:35] have the right wording with the motion

[3:03:36] for the

[3:03:37] >> So the the first one was I move to

[3:03:40] consider this. So are you when you say

[3:03:42] um do you want the second one where it

[3:03:45] says I move to approve consideration or

[3:03:48] you want this I move to approve the

[3:03:49] long-range shooters of Utah. Which one?

[3:03:55] I'm confused.

[3:04:00] you had some you had some language that

[3:04:03] Steve had suggested um because it didn't

[3:04:05] go back to planning commission that was

[3:04:08] the first the one above right

[3:04:11] >> yeah so

[3:04:14] I think I yeah I would probably change

[3:04:16] that it's hard to do it on the fly but I

[3:04:18] think I would um I think you could move

[3:04:23] to approve the site plan if you're so

[3:04:25] inclined to do that instead of

[3:04:28] consideration of the site plan and just

[3:04:31] recognize in the motion based on the

[3:04:34] fact that the sweat path analysis was

[3:04:37] performed and the applicant is no longer

[3:04:39] in need of a recommendation from the

[3:04:40] planning commission. I think

[3:04:42] >> okay

[3:04:43] >> I would probably eliminate consideration

[3:04:45] because that

[3:04:46] >> okay

[3:04:47] >> that kind of

[3:04:48] >> thank you I I was confused

[3:04:50] >> consider it later.

[3:04:51] >> Okay. All right. I move to approve the

[3:04:54] longrange shooters of Utah commercial

[3:04:55] site plan based on the fact that the

[3:04:58] swept path analysis was performed and

[3:05:02] that the applicant is no longer in need

[3:05:04] of a recommendation from planning

[3:05:05] commission

[3:05:08] to an exception to parking standards

[3:05:10] found in code section 3.24.030.

[3:05:16] And you might also just add if you're so

[3:05:19] inclined that um the site plan meets all

[3:05:23] applicable code requirements.

[3:05:25] >> Okay. Per review of staff, the site plan

[3:05:28] meets all applicable

[3:05:30] code compliance requirements.

[3:05:34] >> Okay. Does that sound good, council?

[3:05:37] >> Did I cover it?

[3:05:38] >> Thank you. We have a motion. Uh do we

[3:05:40] have a second?

[3:05:41] >> Am I authorized to be a second?

[3:05:44] I will second the motion. Uh we have a

[3:05:48] motion and a second. Are there any

[3:05:50] questions about the motion?

[3:05:52] It will proceed to a roll call vote. If

[3:05:54] there are no questions, Andrew Young,

[3:05:59] because the

[3:06:02] they have not come to an agreement.

[3:06:03] Andrew Young, no. Brent Rmler, yes.

[3:06:06] >> Sarah Blockwell, yes. Chrissy Hanaman,

[3:06:08] yes.

[3:06:09] >> All right, the motion passes. We will

[3:06:11] move on to staff reports starting with

[3:06:14] police chief. Do you have anything for

[3:06:15] us, Chief William?

[3:06:17] >> Chief Patton.

[3:06:19] >> Okay, Kaden.

[3:06:20] >> No.

[3:06:20] >> Jason,

[3:06:22] uh Shane,

[3:06:24] >> yes.

[3:06:25] >> All right, we finally get to staff

[3:06:27] reports. It's been about six months,

[3:06:29] >> right? Um so just an update on a couple

[3:06:31] things. Uh we actually submitted today

[3:06:35] uh for a $ 1.5 million grant that the

[3:06:39] purpose is to help us build an

[3:06:41] additional storage reservoir for the PI

[3:06:44] system. It would be by somewhere it's

[3:06:47] not pinned down yet, but by the lower

[3:06:50] state or the Alpine Stake Center there,

[3:06:53] not Alpine North Stake Center. Um so it

[3:06:58] was a really quick turnaround on that.

[3:07:00] Um, we got Horox to help us and I think

[3:07:03] they put together a really good

[3:07:05] application.

[3:07:07] Um, and then we had a grant come through

[3:07:10] that we applied for several months ago.

[3:07:13] Finally, [clears throat] we finally got

[3:07:14] the paperwork from the Division of Water

[3:07:16] Resources. And this is to um help pay

[3:07:20] for kind of educational stuff uh for

[3:07:23] water

[3:07:25] like flyers and and a bunch of different

[3:07:27] things. So, um, that one we can use over

[3:07:30] a period of of three years.

[3:07:34] Uh, you may have noticed the

[3:07:35] construction down on Main Street. We've

[3:07:37] been working to, uh, relocate the the

[3:07:41] main school crosswalk down there. Uh,

[3:07:43] turned out to be a much bigger project

[3:07:46] than it looked like it would be on the

[3:07:48] surface.

[3:07:49] And, uh, I took a picture. I I should

[3:07:52] have sent it to Kaden, but I can send it

[3:07:54] out. That kind of shows you what a

[3:07:56] little change in grade will do in

[3:07:59] meeting ADA requirements or not. And

[3:08:02] that's a lot of what we ended up dealing

[3:08:04] with down there. Um, but the last pour

[3:08:06] will happen tomorrow. And then we've got

[3:08:09] some asphalt patching and and then we're

[3:08:12] just waiting for we had to buy new uh

[3:08:16] lighting and signage because our other

[3:08:18] doesn't meet this the spec anymore. Do

[3:08:22] you mind if I just ask one quick

[3:08:24] question on that?

[3:08:25] >> Um, the crosswalk, it doesn't interfere

[3:08:28] with the the the driveway of the 512

[3:08:32] building, doesn't I? I tried to look at

[3:08:33] it today. It looked

[3:08:34] >> That's that's one of the challenges. So,

[3:08:37] we have the crosswalk.

[3:08:39] Remember, we're replacing one that's

[3:08:41] kind of on a diagonal

[3:08:43] >> that interfered with the bank uh parking

[3:08:45] lot. Preferably, they are perpendicular

[3:08:49] across the street. So on one side we had

[3:08:52] the ingress for the school on one side

[3:08:56] of the crosswalk. On the other side of

[3:08:57] the street and the other side of the

[3:08:59] crosswalk we had the 512 driveway. Um

[3:09:02] but we everything worked out. We had a

[3:09:04] couple of questions. We actually called

[3:09:06] uh Michael I can't remember

[3:09:09] Adamson with Fair and Pierce uh just to

[3:09:12] get some clarification and make sure we

[3:09:14] were going about it right and we believe

[3:09:16] we've got it in there the way it needs

[3:09:18] to be.

[3:09:19] um preferably

[3:09:22] there being more separation between

[3:09:24] driveways, but we were we were very

[3:09:26] limited and it affected um some other

[3:09:30] things as well. So

[3:09:33] um but it is tight. Uh the light package

[3:09:36] is scheduled to ship August 4th. I just

[3:09:39] confirmed that today. Um so it should be

[3:09:41] in place for school starting. Um, in the

[3:09:45] event that it's not, I've already talked

[3:09:47] to Chief Guliam and um, it will still

[3:09:50] act as a school crosswalk. Uh, it just

[3:09:53] won't be the reduced speed with the

[3:09:55] flashing yellow lights. So,

[3:09:59] um, and just on that, he's, uh, police

[3:10:02] department's working with all their

[3:10:04] crossing guards and getting everybody

[3:10:06] and their officers ready for school

[3:10:09] starting, which seems really weird that

[3:10:11] we're talking about school starting, but

[3:10:13] July's almost gone. Um on the uh water,

[3:10:18] I heard a report on the news just a

[3:10:20] couple days ago that uh and we talked a

[3:10:22] little bit about this earlier, but um

[3:10:25] this July and it wasn't quite finished

[3:10:28] is the third hottest on record, the

[3:10:31] third highest average temperature. So

[3:10:34] they consider the low and the high

[3:10:36] temperature in that.

[3:10:39] Uh they said we might move into second

[3:10:42] all time. Um, but three of the the

[3:10:46] highest temperature years have been in

[3:10:48] the last 10.

[3:10:49] >> Wow.

[3:10:50] >> So, we've been dealing with a lot of um

[3:10:53] odd weather, but

[3:10:56] um we've been able to get by

[3:10:59] uh pretty well with our water. Um the

[3:11:02] creek flows are dropping off fast now.

[3:11:05] Um Greg said over the weekend they went

[3:11:07] down about 500 gallons a minute. So, uh,

[3:11:11] we had a meeting today with the

[3:11:12] irrigation company and and those

[3:11:14] agricultural users will be cutting back

[3:11:17] their use even even more.

[3:11:21] Uh, Alpine Days Prep's in full swing.

[3:11:24] I'm impressed that Heidi, she some of

[3:11:26] you can't see her, but she's still here.

[3:11:29] Um, she's been very busy and she tells

[3:11:33] me everything's in order. She might need

[3:11:36] some volunteer help. Maybe some of you

[3:11:37] can help with that. Um, she'll be

[3:11:41] putting those those needs out.

[3:11:44] Uh, we're also working with uh, the church on projects for the 911,

[3:11:52] which will be on 912 this year, uh, day

[3:11:55] of service. Um, we'll when we get those

[3:11:58] projects 100% nailed down, we'll let you

[3:12:01] know what they are. We kind of gave them

[3:12:03] some options to see which ones they

[3:12:05] thought would fit best. And then the

[3:12:08] fire station, just an update there. Uh

[3:12:11] things are in full swing. Uh there's a

[3:12:13] little bit not an overall delay, but uh

[3:12:17] the power for the building was on the

[3:12:20] wall that the new addition will go on.

[3:12:22] And Rocky Mountain Powers crews have

[3:12:24] been very tied up with fires and

[3:12:27] replacing power poles and different

[3:12:28] things. But I saw their truck over there

[3:12:30] today and so that's uh either finished

[3:12:34] or getting there and and then they can

[3:12:37] move forward. But everything's going

[3:12:39] well and on schedule. So um that's all I

[3:12:43] have unless anybody has any questions.

[3:12:46] >> Any questions for Shane?

[3:12:48] >> I just have two followup. Um have you

[3:12:51] been able to work with the staff at

[3:12:53] Mountainville Academy so that the

[3:12:54] parents are aware of changes? I actually

[3:12:56] had a conference call today with the

[3:12:59] principal. Uh the mayor was trying to be

[3:13:01] involved, but it didn't didn't work out

[3:13:03] um with the principal and

[3:13:06] Mike. Uh I'm not sure what his title is.

[3:13:08] He kind of the grounds guy down there.

[3:13:11] But yes, we have been communicating with

[3:13:13] them.

[3:13:14] >> Okay.

[3:13:14] >> Um they have a few concerns um with some

[3:13:18] things like the delineators down the

[3:13:23] middle of the street and some of those

[3:13:25] things. So,

[3:13:26] >> yep.

[3:13:26] >> But, uh, I let them know that we really

[3:13:29] don't have a way to communicate with the

[3:13:30] parents. We're happy to provide

[3:13:32] information, but we can't send that to

[3:13:35] them directly, and we need to re rely on

[3:13:37] them to do that.

[3:13:39] >> Good. I'm glad they're

[3:13:41] >> Yeah, we're working together on that.

[3:13:43] And they've been they've been really

[3:13:44] good to work with down there on what

[3:13:46] we've had to do. Um, we actually took

[3:13:49] out some of their rock area to have kind

[3:13:51] of a build kind of a staging area for

[3:13:54] the kids on the school side

[3:13:56] >> and they were great to work with on that

[3:13:58] and um I think it's going well.

[3:14:02] >> The other question is you mentioned the

[3:14:04] Rocky Mountain Power in front of the

[3:14:06] fire station. Is that are we going to

[3:14:08] have a pole still or is that going

[3:14:10] underground? Uh the one that's kind of

[3:14:12] midb block in

[3:14:14] >> right in front of our station kind of

[3:14:16] >> that one will that will still be there.

[3:14:18] We we did investigate putting all those

[3:14:21] overhead lines underground and you have

[3:14:24] to go like a block each direction.

[3:14:26] >> Oh,

[3:14:26] >> it got way involved.

[3:14:28] >> Okay.

[3:14:29] >> We did investigate it.

[3:14:30] >> That's it. Thanks.

[3:14:31] >> But the one that's just outside this

[3:14:34] door, we're still working on getting rid

[3:14:37] of that. So, it's just going to take a

[3:14:40] little bit of time.

[3:14:42] >> All right, we just have a few seconds

[3:14:44] for council communications. I'll just

[3:14:45] update you. Lumpy public safety district

[3:14:47] has not had any budget or any agenda

[3:14:50] items. So, we have not held a meeting in

[3:14:51] a few months. And just to confirm, we do

[3:14:54] not have a city council meeting on the

[3:14:56] second Tuesday of August because of

[3:15:00] Alpine Days.

[3:15:01] >> That's correct. And that is something I

[3:15:03] wanted to mention. Sometimes we get to

[3:15:05] this time of year and that happens and

[3:15:06] we're trying to get an overlay project

[3:15:08] out. We might ask for like a quick new

[3:15:11] day meeting one day to approve a

[3:15:13] contract or something, but we're not

[3:15:15] quite there yet.

[3:15:16] >> All right. So, just a heads up, only the

[3:15:19] fourth fourth Tuesday in August. Nothing

[3:15:21] else for me.

[3:15:22] >> Um I serve on the Alpine Youth Council

[3:15:25] committee and the water committee.

[3:15:26] Alpine Youth Council, they're just doing

[3:15:28] a little training retreat. I don't know

[3:15:29] if that's really pertinent information,

[3:15:31] but um our water committee um we are

[3:15:34] still doing our we are not doing on

[3:15:37] education night in August, but in

[3:15:39] September in September on the 16th um

[3:15:42] we're have a meeting um a little lecture

[3:15:46] given by Ben Abbott. He's a professor at

[3:15:49] BYU in the life sciences and he I've

[3:15:51] heard him speak before. It's great. He's

[3:15:53] talking about the health of the Great

[3:15:55] Salt Lake and Utah Lake and how that

[3:15:57] affects our snowpack and just our life

[3:16:00] here in Utah. Um, also just with regards

[3:16:03] to the water committee, we were able to

[3:16:05] distribute not quite 3,000 water

[3:16:09] education door hangers that were

[3:16:11] delivered doortodoor by foot, by hand

[3:16:14] throughout the entire city of Alpine.

[3:16:16] So, shout out to those who helped do

[3:16:18] that. Thank you.

[3:16:19] >> You should have asked me to help. I

[3:16:21] could run and do it like I did in my

[3:16:22] campaign.

[3:16:24] >> Now we have now I have grant funds to

[3:16:26] help. [laughter]

[3:16:27] >> Oh, nice.

[3:16:28] >> Um, thank you for remembering the

[3:16:31] flyers. I was following your person. I

[3:16:33] couldn't keep up with him. He's younger

[3:16:34] than I was. Um, we we had neighborhood

[3:16:38] 250 celebrations on July 5th and had a

[3:16:41] good turnout from all just all around

[3:16:43] Burgess Park. People that I had never

[3:16:46] met before. So, it was really fun. Um,

[3:16:47] and people I've known a long time.

[3:16:49] perfect event for the America 250.

[3:16:52] That's the theme of Alpine Days. And if

[3:16:54] you remember way back in January, we

[3:16:56] were each assigned to events to attend.

[3:16:59] So, if you need help with any of those,

[3:17:00] it sounds like um Whoops. Heidi may need

[3:17:03] some help with volunteer time. And then

[3:17:05] I wasn't aware because I was a new

[3:17:07] council person that we get to ride on

[3:17:09] the fire truck in the parade. So, if you

[3:17:12] haven't been informed, I don't I don't

[3:17:13] want you to make plans and and miss that

[3:17:16] opportunity, especially since you have

[3:17:18] children that would remember such a fun

[3:17:20] event. We have um Main Street uh based

[3:17:25] on our the communication from last

[3:17:27] meeting. We've divided up into

[3:17:29] committees and have assignments and

[3:17:31] Kaden is our spearing that spearheading

[3:17:35] those efforts. Remember the deadline is

[3:17:37] um September 1st. We've suggested times

[3:17:40] to meet and hope that all works out so

[3:17:42] you don't have to do the long email

[3:17:44] chain of who can meet when and all that

[3:17:46] business. Um I would remind everyone

[3:17:50] that um two two open things that we had

[3:17:54] or two thing one thing that came up

[3:17:55] tonight is our guidelines our main

[3:17:57] street guidelines are not as um as

[3:18:01] they're ambiguous. So that led to some

[3:18:03] confusion not just with here but even

[3:18:05] with our fire station things like that

[3:18:07] to work hard to to to bring the detail

[3:18:09] we need because the next step to

[3:18:11] Andrew's point is to get it into

[3:18:13] ordinances. So if we can do um get ahead

[3:18:16] of that while it's all fresh in our

[3:18:18] memory that would be awesome. Also um

[3:18:21] the planning commission brought up flex

[3:18:23] housing which we've never really talked

[3:18:25] about here. So, let's let's be sure and

[3:18:28] be thorough with that. And then we will

[3:18:29] be voting on um the final edits in in

[3:18:33] our August meeting because that's the

[3:18:35] only one before or maybe it's in the

[3:18:36] first meeting in September. That's when

[3:18:38] we're doing it. So, anyways, just remind

[3:18:40] you to do that. Um I think another issue

[3:18:42] that came up again, we're learning as we

[3:18:44] go with this commercial um application

[3:18:47] was it's good to have a transition space

[3:18:50] between residential and commercial. What

[3:18:52] does that look like? We don't have any

[3:18:54] code regarding that. the um consultants

[3:18:57] did talk about having that and what the

[3:18:59] planning commission came up with was

[3:19:00] flex housing be be to be a buffer from

[3:19:04] commercial to flex housing to regular

[3:19:06] single family homes. I don't know what

[3:19:08] that's going to look like. It's a long

[3:19:10] journey but worth the effort. That's it.

[3:19:12] Thank you.

[3:19:13] >> That was nice. Just two things. Kayen,

[3:19:15] do you mind bringing up that items to

[3:19:17] share? The very last uh items just

[3:19:20] called water barrel.

[3:19:21] >> Do we need to have a motion to go? We

[3:19:22] we're four minutes beyond our

[3:19:25] >> Okay, I could probably do it 20 seconds.

[3:19:27] >> Okay, as long as it's okay.

[3:19:29] >> Uh Shane, we got an Eagle over the Eagle

[3:19:31] Scout projects. We got an Eagle Scout

[3:19:33] who wants to do painting the um

[3:19:35] crosswalks. So, you have an Eagle Scout

[3:19:38] and a bunch of helpers that want to do

[3:19:40] that. Just passing it on.

[3:19:43] >> Your smile is telling you,

[3:19:44] >> let's find them something else to paint.

[3:19:45] We don't really It wouldn't be safe to

[3:19:47] have him out on the street.

[3:19:49] >> Okay, hold on. We're going longer than

[3:19:50] 20 seconds. Sorry.

[3:19:51] >> One suggestion. Yeah.

[3:19:52] >> If he could remove the tape residue on

[3:19:54] all the restroom doors and repaint

[3:19:56] those.

[3:19:57] >> Well, okay. I

[3:19:59] >> Well, that's going to be awesome to tell

[3:20:01] him. Guess what? The bathroom doors.

[3:20:04] >> Um Well,

[3:20:06] >> if he's Oh, no. At the very bottom, the

[3:20:08] water barrels

[3:20:09] >> after the meeting ends. I have another

[3:20:10] suggestion, but that's not extended.

[3:20:12] >> I'll talk to you after.

[3:20:13] >> He has something to Yeah.

[3:20:15] >> There's also one that wants to help with

[3:20:17] trails, the Bonavville Shoreline Trail

[3:20:19] to try to help it. Anyways, if you just

[3:20:22] go to those bottom things, it's always

[3:20:23] going to share. These are the three

[3:20:24] working uh three working um independent

[3:20:28] home and look at that beautiful rock.

[3:20:30] Three independent working home water

[3:20:32] storage units that are just phenomenal.

[3:20:35] And I just want to show them as the way

[3:20:38] you can store there's a scout yourself.

[3:20:41] One of the best residents. I love that

[3:20:42] resident. Um, anyways, uh, I'd love to

[3:20:44] talk more about it later, but, uh, it's

[3:20:46] just fascinating how the pressure comes

[3:20:48] out of the bottom and how people can

[3:20:50] store it for months and months and

[3:20:51] months at their home and use it for

[3:20:53] water needs. So,

[3:20:55] >> you know, I love them. You know, I love

[3:20:56] them. But,

[3:20:56] >> hey, thanks everyone.

[3:20:57] >> Yep.

[3:20:58] >> Uh, I'll entertain a motion to dismiss.

[3:21:02] >> I move that we end this city council

[3:21:05] meeting.

[3:21:06] >> Have a second.

[3:21:07] >> I'll second.

[3:21:08] >> All in favor?

[3:21:09] >> I.

[3:21:10] >> Thanks.

[3:21:20] group that wants to do

[3:21:22] a service project. We have a list of

7.28.26 City Council Meeting

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