[0:05] um one general meeting item and then we can go to the full regular meeting

[0:10] docket. Um

[0:16] it's a preliminary item board um case 26125.

[0:24] We reviewed it more closely and we determined did not need a variance. So

[0:28] wanted you to note this if you agree. This was a fence case. It came to us,

[0:33] but they found or there's another gap in the zoning code where

[0:38] there's no sideyard or front yard requirement for a fence or for anything

[0:42] in the R8 zoning district. And so the sixoot fence is allowed by right. And so

[0:50] I guess [snorts] for now the applicant benefits from this gap. We should fix

[0:55] this gap in the future. But so I guess this wanted to note this one and with

[1:00] your concurrence we'll draft a one-page memo to the zoning administrator

[1:07] indicating that there's no variance needed. So guess we can discuss or if

[1:13] you agree then we can I guess vote. I I do concur with the staff's opinion uh

[1:18] that this application uh does not require uh a variance.

[1:27] » I agree.

[1:32] » Can we get agreement across the board, please?

[1:33] » Agreed. >> Thank you.

[1:35] » Thank you. >> Okay. I think that's only one and we

[1:39] have a footway thing, but we need more information to get that on your radar.

[1:42] So, we'll come back to that one. Um, now we can start the regular docket or

[1:52] the zoning docket. Okay. Good afternoon and welcome to the July 21st, 2026 1pm

[2:00] docket for the board of municipal and zoning appeals. My name is Justin

[2:04] Williams.

[2:09] Name the whole script. My name is Justin Williams and I'm the interim executive

[2:12] director of the BMZA. The board members here this afternoon from left to right

[2:17] are Kate Howard, Liz Cornish, Leland Shelton who's the chair, Ryan Hargrave,

[2:23] and Victor Clark. We ask everyone in the room please turn off their cell phones

[2:28] and then if you need to speak probably with another person, please do that in

[2:31] the lobby or hallway. Um, the reason for that is that we have a court reporter

[2:35] recording all the audio that's happening in the room and then also someone from

[2:39] Charm TV is recording video of the proceedings and so the microphones in

[2:44] the room will pick up your conversations if you're having them. So again, please

[2:47] if you need to have a private conversation, we ask you do that in the

[2:51] hallway. Um, we will be calling the cases generally in the order. They're in

[2:56] the docket. Um, if you've not done so already, we ask anybody planning to

[3:00] speak on behalf in support or opposition for a case, please sign in in front of

[3:06] uh Mr. Walker and the desk here. Again, we want everyone who's planning to

[3:10] speak, including attorneys, applicants, those in favor, those opposed, please

[3:14] sign in. Um, when your case is called, the applicant will go first. We ask

[3:19] applicant come to the table uh uh introduce yourself, spell your name

[3:24] for the court reporter and take an oath before giving testimony. Um the board

[3:29] will probably vote on your appeal today, but that vote is not final. By law, we

[3:33] must prepare a written document called a resolution which requires drafting and

[3:37] review. This process takes several weeks. We will send it to you by email

[3:41] and if you're the appellant, you'll be able to access it through. We ask that

[3:46] you do not uh begin work until you have actual building permit. The written

[3:50] resolution is on the permit. It's just a written resolution um memorialized in

[3:54] the board's decision. Um we mentioned on the docket there's a one case that has

[3:58] been removed from the general meeting docket just for um recordkeeping. That's

[4:02] 26-125. The board voted in the um general

[4:08] meeting to allow that to proceed um without a variance. And with that, Mr.

[4:14] chair, we can proceed. [snorts]

[4:18] [clears throat] >> Good afternoon, everyone. Uh, thank you

[4:20] for coming up today. I'd like to just just send a reminder that when your name

[4:23] is called, um, please have a seat at the table. Um, you I'll ask you to stand and

[4:28] be sworn. Uh, please make sure that your microphone is on. Uh, there is a small

[4:33] button on the microphone. If the light is green, your microphone is on. Uh so

[4:37] now calling our first case for today, appeal 26

[4:44] 87 2826 through 2840 Westwood Avenue. Uh

[4:51] Rosenberg Martin is here to represent the appellent uh NHP Foundation. Uh the

[4:56] application is to construct a community center uh as a conditional use and

[5:00] accessory structure requiring a variance to the bulking yard regulations. Uh

[5:04] first we will hear from planning and staff.

[5:06] » Sorry. Um just briefly um would it be all right if we moved later in the

[5:10] docket? My client is yet. Thank you. >> Sure. No problem.

[5:15] » Calling case 26104 3635 Edmonson Avenue. Uh Muhammadu Assan

[5:23] Soel is the appellent. The request is to add a tobacco sales to an existing

[5:27] convenience store. Uh first we hear from planning and staff.

[5:31] » Good afternoon. Justin Walker with the Department of Planning on case 26104

[5:36] for 3635 Eison Avenue. The request is the addition of the sales of tobacco to

[5:43] an existing retail goods establishment that's authorized under the neighborhood

[5:47] commercial establishment designation. Um per the zoning code section 14328

[5:55] uh the sale of tobacco products is explicitly prohibited uh in neighborhood

[5:59] commercial establishments such as this. Uh planning notes that in the event the

[6:03] applicant can demonstrate this is actually a non-conforming retail goods

[6:07] establishment which would mean it existed and operated continuously since

[6:11] prior to 2017 uh when this prohibition was added. um that that would make it a

[6:16] non-conforming retail goods which would be eligible for tobacco sales. Um from

[6:21] what planning has that does not seem to be the case. This does seem to be a

[6:24] neighborhood commercial establishment uh under which tobacco sales are

[6:28] prohibited. So therefore planning recommends disapproval unless they can

[6:32] demonstrate non-conformity.

[6:36] Would you let me know when uh >> Sure. Yes. Yes. Uh could you guys please

[6:41] stand and be sworn?

[6:44] Gentlemen,

[6:48] » please raise your right hand. You swear affirm the opportunity to tell the

[6:53] truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the testimony that you're

[6:56] about to give. >> Yes.

[6:57] » And could you both please spell, state, and spell your first and last name?

[7:01] » Yes. My first name Mouhammad Hassan Soil is M A H M U D U L. Middle name Hassan H

[7:08] A S A N. And the last name Suel S O H E L. Kenneth McCoy, Kenn

[7:16] MC Ko Y. >> Thank you.

[7:19] » And I guess one more housekeeping, you can have a seat. Uh we have received in

[7:22] your board packet 17 letters of support signed by individual residents which

[7:27] included their contact information. And we also received three letters of

[7:30] opposition um dated June 2026. Um each or each

[7:37] letter in the packet generally uh poses additional tobacco sales and details

[7:41] concerns about youth access to tobacco um health risk associated with tobacco

[7:47] and all three have report allegations of loose cigarettes being sold.

[7:54] » Thank you. Uh please tell us what brings you here today.

[7:58] » Thank you very much board members and uh chairman. Uh I'm here to um um

[8:04] requesting to um add add tobacco sales on my existing uh neighborhood

[8:10] convenience store. Um and um we have uh to prevent to sell uh tobacco cell to

[8:19] miners or some our we have I have got some um equipments to verify the age and

[8:30] u and I trained my employee as well. Sir, are you aware that um the current

[8:38] zoning code does not allow tobacco sales uh at convenience stores?

[8:44] » Um [clears throat] yes. Um recently I have a word about that and uh then I

[8:49] filed for um BMZA hearing. Um and um yeah. So, um,

[9:03] » could you um, how long have y'all owned the store?

[9:07] » Um, it's been around a year. >> One year?

[9:10] » Yes.

[9:14] » And when you bought it, was it uh a convenience store?

[9:18] » No, it wasn't. It was a barber shop and u I have renovated and then turned it

[9:23] into an grocery store. >> A barber shop when you purchased it?

[9:27] Yes.

[9:36] » Okay. Um, so I have a question for staff. Uh,

[9:41] barbershop is would be a neighborhood commercial establishment. Correct.

[9:45] » Correct. >> Um, however,

[9:48] would that uh sort of satisfy the non-conforming use?

[9:54] So that I guess that's a question for the board's consideration. The

[9:59] addition of the prohibition on tobacco sales which is in do we have copies of

[10:05] zoning code? This is section 14-328 I

[10:11] um pull it up since we're discussing this.

[10:14] » I'm sorry. >> Just be able to get it online.

[10:18] » Yeah. um that has a prohibition that became effective

[10:22] um June 10th, 2020. [clears throat] And so the

[10:27] interpretation that staff were going with was that a permit to start a new

[10:32] business afterwards without with tobacco would be

[10:36] prohibited. And so it's kind of consistent with planning. Planning date

[10:39] was 2017 when there was an NCE. I think it could be later June 10th, 2020 is

[10:45] when that tobacco prohibition became effective.

[10:48] But if there's no prior history of tobacco sales, that was our

[10:52] interpretation of like it'd be non-conforming. It could be

[10:55] non-conforming and continued if it was prior to June 10th, 2020, but without

[10:59] evidence of tobacco sales prior to that, then we think it would be subject to

[11:04] that prohibition, which I'm going to put on the screen.

[11:19] And sir, and sir, so um the problem that we're that we're encountering is that um

[11:25] that although this was a neighborhood commercial establishment, it was a

[11:28] barberh shop. Uh and so there's no history within in the zoning uh sort of

[11:33] history in the records of the city uh that this was uh formerly before June uh

[11:39] 2020 when the prohibition on new uh corner stores selling tobacco uh was um

[11:46] was law. Um there's no history of any tobacco sales at this at this location

[11:52] and because of that it appears that um we may not be able to grant uh your

[11:56] appeal. Um, are there any other questions of the applicant?

[12:01] » No questions. >> No questions.

[12:06] » And so, uh, I'd like to recommend that we, uh, adopt the, uh, recommendations

[12:14] and findings in the planning department's memo. And with that, um, I

[12:18] I'm going to be a no, uh, for this case. >> Also a no.

[12:22] » Also a no. >> Also a no.

[12:25] » No. >> Thank you, sir. And just to clarify for

[12:28] the you'll get a written decision. I mean the issue is that although you're

[12:32] retail goods establishment, you're classified as a neighborhood commercial

[12:35] establishment because you're in a residentially zoned

[12:39] block or property. So if it were a commercially zoned block where you could

[12:45] be just retail good establishment, this wouldn't apply. But unfortunately, the

[12:50] current zoning designation has you as a neighborhood commercial establishment

[12:54] which has this prohibition on tobacco sales.

[12:58] » Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you.

[13:05] Now calling our next case 266 4744

[13:10] Alhhamra Avenue. Aisha Jackson is the appellent. The request is for

[13:15] conditional use approval to use the basement as a retail goods

[13:17] establishment. Uh first we will hear from planning and staff.

[13:24] 4744 Alhamra Avenue. The request is for a

[13:30] uh neighborhood commercial establishment for retail goods sales. Uh planning

[13:34] found documented history of non-residential use. Uh property

[13:38] previously had authorization as a grocery store in 2018. uh which

[13:43] satisfies the requirement of section 14300 for neighborhood commercial

[13:47] establishments. Um as noted in the neighborhood commercial establishments,

[13:52] uh the sale of tobacco and alcohol is prohibited. Uh but with that and for the

[13:57] reasons outlined in the staff report, planning recommends approval of the

[14:00] appeal. >> Thank you. But before I go, I want to

[14:02] make sure there is there anyone here in opposition for this case?

[14:06] Okay. Um please um stand and be sworn. Excuse [clears throat and cough]

[14:13] me. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under the authority of

[14:17] prayetry to tell the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth in the

[14:21] testimony that you're about to give? >> Yes.

[14:23] » Yes, sir. >> Can you please state and spell your

[14:25] first and last name? >> Aisha Jackson, Aki, SA J A C O N.

[14:34] » Alan Griffin, A L L E N G R I FF I N. Thank you. Yes, sir.

[14:42] » Um, so tell us what brings you here today.

[14:44] » Uh, good afternoon. My name is Alan Griffin. Um, I'm speaking on the behalf

[14:51] of my wife who's the actual person that's purchasing the

[14:57] property here. So, uh, basically,

[15:02] uh, she's requesting approval to operate a neighborhood, uh, commercial

[15:07] establishment, which is the, uh, 44 4744

[15:12] Elam Avenue. Um, the business will offer everyday

[15:17] convenience items such as snacks, beverages,

[15:21] household essential, personal products. In addition,

[15:25] uh she will sell a pearl under her clothing brand Bless beyond Measure,

[15:31] which is, you know, t-shirts and socks or whatnot.

[15:34] Uh

[15:38] it combines neighborhood convenience and local shopping. Basically, uh the

[15:43] community benefits from it. Uh bringing existing commercial storefront back to

[15:49] active use. uh improve the uh appearance of the

[15:53] property. As you can see, it's like need some trimming and grass stuff like that

[15:56] out there. But uh and it'll create local employment once the business grows for

[16:03] the community. We looking [clears throat] to uh put people from

[16:06] the neighborhood inside of the establishment.

[16:09] Uh and also it serves customers. It's a bus stop right there on the corner to

[16:14] serve customers on a bus stop, hot days, beverages or whatn not like that.

[16:20] And we have also a security plan in place, you know, to work with local law

[16:24] enforcement and such. And we have uh Exfinity cameras that will be around the

[16:31] whole building and inside and outside. >> Um, how long have you guys owned the

[16:36] building? >> Oh, we don't own the building. We

[16:38] actually rent. >> You rent the building? How long have you

[16:40] been renting? >> Uh, well, the it's all based upon if it

[16:45] can be approved. >> Okay. before we move forward with that

[16:48] actual process. But >> okay. Um any other questions for the

[16:53] applicants? >> No.

[16:56] » I'd like to recommend that we adopt the reports, the findings in the uh report

[17:00] from planning. Um after hearing the application, reviewing the application,

[17:05] I'm hearing their testimony today and reviewing the application. Um, I have

[17:09] not found any reason to believe that establishment of a neighborhood

[17:11] commercial uh uh retails goods establishment at this location uh would

[17:17] lead to any negative consequences that would go above and beyond what we expect

[17:22] anywhere else uh within the zoning district. Uh and so for that reason, I'm

[17:25] a yes for the application.

[17:30] » Also yes. >> Also yes.

[17:33] » Thank you guys. >> Thank you.

[17:37] Thank you. >> So, you will get uh a resolution in the

[17:42] mail. Uh please do not open business, open for business or do anything until

[17:46] you receive that resolution in the mail from the zoning office.

[17:48] » Yes, sir. Thank you. >> Thank you.

[17:51] » Uh calling our next state next case 26171

[17:56] 844 Round Road. Uh the appellent uh is Chase Hoffber representing uh Bonnet

[18:02] Harris for Carol's Development LLC. Uh the request is to use a portion as as an

[18:06] educational facility, a commercial vocational requiring variance to bulk

[18:11] and yard regulations and a conditional use approval. Uh first we will hear from

[18:15] planning and staff >> 844 Brown View Road. Uh this is a

[18:21] proposal to replace the former U tops elementary school with an 80 unit uh

[18:27] mixeduse multif family dwelling. There is a conditional use and variances.

[18:32] first to cover the conditional use. Uh the request is for an educational

[18:37] facility, a commercial vocational. We understand it's in an employment

[18:41] training center and we also have an office u for the mayor's office of

[18:47] employment development. Um in addition to the conditional use which planning is

[18:53] supportive of uh there are two required variances. First is for the required

[18:59] front yard. Uh the district requires a setback of 20 ft. The proposed building

[19:04] will project to within 11 ft of the front lot line. So a 9 foot variance uh

[19:08] is required. We understand that there is both a slope uh on the front of the

[19:13] building that requires the setback. Also uh the project will move the sidewalk.

[19:17] The sidewalk is currently directly off the street. Uh the project will move the

[19:21] sidewalk 5T in uh to increase pedestrian safety. Uh doing this would have made

[19:28] the sidewalk split between the private parcel and the right of way. Uh the

[19:31] department of transportation prefers sidewalks to be entirely the right of

[19:35] way. So some of the property was dedicated to the right of way reducing

[19:39] their ability to meet that front yard requirement. Uh so in addition there's

[19:44] the height variance and I do apologize for one error in the written planning

[19:48] report. I have 67 feet. The request is for 62 feet which is a 17 foot variance.

[19:55] Uh that's necessitated also by the affformentioned slope in the front of

[19:59] the property. The measurement methodology methodology and the zoning

[20:03] code requires the measurement from the mean curb height to the top of the

[20:07] building. So even though the building uh will only measure 45 ft from base to

[20:13] roof uh when you factor in the mean height of the curb, the variance is

[20:16] necessitated. uh planning finds that those meet the requirements of section

[20:21] 5406 of the zoning code and therefore recommend approval of both the

[20:27] conditional use and all of the variances.

[20:31] » Thank you. First I want to ask anyone who plans to speak whether in support or

[20:35] opposition of this case to stand and be sworn.

[20:40] » Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under the authority of

[20:44] prayer to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, the

[20:47] testimony that you're about to give? >> Yes, I do.

[20:51] » Please state your first and last name. >> My first name is Willis W L I E

[20:59] Walker W. I'm reser

[21:04] and a retired judge. Thank you. >> Vonet Harris with Chyros Development.

[21:09] Spelling my name is V O N E T E. Last name Harris. H A R R I S.

[21:14] » Chase Hoffberger. C H A S E. H O F F B E R G E R.

[21:20] » Michael Middleton. M I D L. That's the last name. First name is Michael. M I C

[21:25] H A E L. Last name Middleton. M I D L E T O N. I'll be speaking in favor of

[21:33] » got the important case. Got the mayor trail. You know, uh Mr. offer to tell me

[21:37] about your case today. >> Sure, and thanks for having us. Um, this

[21:41] is a a great project that um, Miss Harris here has endeavored to uh, to

[21:46] take on um, as part of Kyros development in coordination with the Cherry Hill

[21:50] Development Corporation and the city of Baltimore. This is city on land

[21:54] currently uh, the site of the old school elementary school and um, as part of the

[21:59] uh, 2020 Cherry Hill Transformation Plan. This site was identified as a

[22:04] great location for affordable housing and um and a workforce development

[22:09] center. Um so the general development plan here you can see the school within

[22:14] the within the boundaries um is to is to eventually de demolish the school and um

[22:19] on the east side of the property which is on the right um there would be uh the

[22:24] development that we're here to talk about now. We'll call that phase one.

[22:26] That's 80 affordable housing units and a um and a vocational school. And then um

[22:34] and then phase two, which will take place later, um will will sort of take

[22:39] the place of the of the old school here and that would add another 40 um 40

[22:44] affordable housing units. We'd also note that the the uh development plan for

[22:48] phase one includes um 90 off streetet parking spots.

[22:54] So, [clears throat] uh, we're here to talk about two

[22:55] variance requests and a conditional use appeal. Um, let's talk about the

[22:59] variances first. Um, this this, uh, this requires a See if I

[23:05] can cut down that feedback. This requires a front yard setback variance

[23:08] and a and a height variance as Mr. Walker noted, and we agree with with

[23:11] most of planning with all of Planning's findings here. Um, there is a 17 ft

[23:15] change in grade uh from the front of this property to the back. And as you're

[23:19] looking at the property, you can certainly see that it's odd. um curved,

[23:24] wide uh narrow and irregular uh border in the back and uh and fronted by

[23:31] actually this this rounded road is is uh two different roads. So there's Carver

[23:36] kind of on the bottom side and then and then Round View on the right and then

[23:39] and then Cherryland goes up along the along the shorter edge there. That 17t

[23:45] change in grade creates a lot of problems uh for for developing a

[23:49] building that can accommodate this amount of affordable housing. Um, in in

[23:53] preparation for this, there's a lot of discussion internally about whether

[23:56] there's a five-story building or a fourtory story building because in on

[23:59] one side it's five and in the back it's four. Um, that's because you've got

[24:03] about a whole a whole story worth of difference um in that grade. So if you

[24:09] were to only if you were to adhere to the the strict definition of what uh of

[24:14] the measurement of building height um and and you were to make it such that

[24:18] from the front of the curb to the uh to the the mean average of the building

[24:23] height uh at its closest point to the curb um and if that were to be 45 ft

[24:29] then the back of the building would be um 28 feet which would really be a small

[24:35] a small building and and it wouldn't it wouldn't accomplish the goals that

[24:40] the that the transformation plan set out for the property, but it would also

[24:44] create sort of an architecturally oddlooking building. Um, and so we do

[24:48] think it's justified here to uh provide some relief and essentially create the

[24:52] measurement from the back of the building. We'll note that because of the

[24:56] um because of the orientation of this property with respect to the other land

[25:01] in the area in the back you've got the Cherry Hill Elementary School. um that's

[25:05] not really impeded by the height difference. And then um and then on the

[25:09] other side you've got some uh HABC housing um and there's a fair amount of

[25:14] separation both by Round View Road and just by the setbacks that exist. So we

[25:19] think that the that the elevation um the building height in the front

[25:24] really won't create any problems or orientation issues for the uh for the

[25:30] neighbors. And in terms of the front yard setback,

[25:33] Mr. Walker uh described the issue pretty concisely. Uh currently you can see sort

[25:40] of a a very narrow small sidewalk that runs right along Carver Road into Round

[25:46] View Road. Um that's not safe or really enjoyable to walk along. And the

[25:51] redevelopment plan um proposes to move that sidewalk in a little bit. uh that

[25:56] would create some some issues in terms of the sidewalk, which is a public right

[26:00] ofway, obviously, uh being split between what will be privately owned land, and

[26:04] the city right ofway. um as an effort to get around that and and um and and uh

[26:10] take care of that issue in advance. Um we Miss Harris is is planning to

[26:16] dedicate uh some of that land in a small portion uh to to the city and that will

[26:21] create an issue where kind of in the middle of this of this proposed building

[26:26] you've got a you've got an 11 foot setback where 20 is required. So, it's

[26:31] not the entire building as your site plan shows. It's kind of a a portion,

[26:34] maybe 50% of the front facade. Um, but it is a necessary step in order to

[26:40] comply with with DOT preferences and also to create a little bit more safety.

[26:45] There you can see that it's really a small small portion along that that

[26:49] middle area. In terms of the other approval

[26:52] standards, uh the practical difficulty certainly caused by the code and the

[26:55] conditions of the property. uh it's not solely to profit but it's really to

[26:59] create a feasible a feasible development that can meet the needs of the of the um

[27:04] residents um while while also um while also fitting into the into the

[27:10] conditions of the property. This these variances won't be injurious to the use

[27:14] and enjoyment of other property in the vicinity. It's minimal setback request

[27:18] and the and the property is uh relatively separated from other

[27:20] buildings anyway. And um and again this this proposal is in direct direct

[27:25] conformity with the Cherry Hill transformation plan of 2020. We do have

[27:29] letters of support from South Baltimore 7 United Communities and the Youth

[27:32] Resilience Institute and uh and in your file should also be one from Council

[27:36] Member Felicia Porter. Now, under the conditional use appeal, um the proposal

[27:42] is to put an educational facility, vocational in in this building, um kind

[27:47] of in this terrace level, this this uh halfway fifth floor on the bottom. Um

[27:52] and and also to install an accessory office for the mayor's office of

[27:57] employment development. Um Miss Harris has secured a letter of intent from the

[28:01] Affinity Community Development Corporation to uh to use this space as a

[28:06] school. uh they're they're intending workforce development training for 15 to

[28:11] 20 students at a time. These students would need to uh accomplish 750 hours of

[28:16] training over a four-year period in order to get trade licenses and things

[28:20] like that. Um with approximately 12 hours of th of those 750 in the

[28:25] classroom because most of the time will be spent um on site job sites learning.

[28:32] um it's really a small portion of their training will happen on on campus and

[28:36] this will happen from 5:30 to 8:30 at night. Um and so the so the office or

[28:42] the school will be closed during the day. Um uh sort of minimizing the

[28:46] impact. We think 15 to 20 students at a time is a very small impact anyway. Uh

[28:50] in terms of parking, in terms of loading, there's plenty of off- streetet

[28:54] parking on site. So um so Round View Road won't be packed with with people

[28:59] parallel parking. We'd also note that that as this as the site of a former

[29:04] school, this street is very uh accustomed to accommodating traffic

[29:10] patterns anyway. So, so we don't think it would it would be a a very big deal.

[29:16] Um, in terms of in terms of the approval standards for the conditional use

[29:20] appeal, the site is a large property with an uneven topography and an

[29:24] institutional use history as a as a former school. Uh it provides ample open

[29:29] space for development and parking necessary to accommodate these residents

[29:32] as well as the students. Um there there will be 90 off- streetet parking spots

[29:36] as I mentioned and um and and as this has been a target uh as part of the

[29:41] transformation plan for development uh we would anticipate rather than than

[29:45] being a hindrance on future development that this could spur active community

[29:49] oriented development in the community. So um with that I will close my case. We

[29:53] have a few people here to speak in support and uh Miss Harris and I uh

[29:57] welcome any questions now or after they speak.

[30:00] » Before Before they speak, I do have a [clears throat] couple sort of

[30:03] clarifying questions. Could you clarify uh building height?

[30:07] » So the building height in the front will be 62 feet.

[30:12] » 62. Okay. >> In the back the the back elevation is 45

[30:16] ft. So the the difference between the the permitted 45 ft and you're permitted

[30:21] 45 ft on a corner lot, which this would constitute uh where where the the two

[30:26] roads are 30t or more. Um so so you're permitted to go to 45 ft. The difference

[30:32] between what is proposed and what is permitted is the difference in in the

[30:37] change of grade from the front of the property to the back.

[30:39] » Okay. The the reason I asked because there was I think discrepancy in our

[30:42] records. We had 67 feet and 6. So yes, >> just want to clear it up. 62 ft. Okay.

[30:47] I'd love to hear from your clients. Okay.

[31:05] Good afternoon, members [clears throat] of the zoning board. As stated, my name

[31:09] is Michael Middleton and I'm a longtime community advocate and resident

[31:14] stakeholder in Cherry Hill. I'm here today in support of the PABSCO point

[31:18] development and the zoning relief necessary to move this transformative

[31:23] project forward. PABSCO point is the result of years of thoughtful planning

[31:29] and community engagement. This project did not emerge in isolation. It is a

[31:35] direct outgrowth of community vision for the Cherry Hill community. The

[31:39] development is especially identified or specifically identified in the 2020

[31:45] Cherry Hill transformation plan which recognized the former Patabo Elementary

[31:50] School site as a prime location for mixed income housing and community

[31:55] reinvestment. Patabco Point will create muchneeded

[31:59] affordable housing opportunities for Cherry Hill residents. Cherry Hill has

[32:04] not seen a new housing build in 20 years.

[32:08] This project fully aligns with the economic and social goals established by

[32:12] the Cherry Hill community. It advances key priorities including affordable and

[32:18] mixed income housing, anti-displacement strategies, wealth building

[32:23] opportunities, and workforce development and economic mobility. A particularly uh

[32:30] important component is the plan workforce development and vocational

[32:34] training facility. This investment will connect residents to meaningful career

[32:39] pathways, provide skills training, and support long-term economic opportunities

[32:45] by combining housing and workforce development. Patabo Point embraces a

[32:50] holistic approach to neighborhood revitalization that benefits both

[32:54] current and future residents. Patap's copoint reflects the principles of

[32:59] purposebuilt communities model that Cherry Hill residents have embraced and

[33:04] supported. The project integrates highquality uh mixed income housing,

[33:10] educational opportunities, and economic development resources to help create

[33:15] lasting positive outcomes for families and the broader community.

[33:24] Cab's development has consistently listened to the community and responded

[33:29] to resident concerns and priorities throughout the planning process. The

[33:34] proposed development reflects what the community requested and represents a

[33:38] project that is both economically viable and socially responsible.

[33:43] As someone who has advocated for Cherry Hill community for more than three

[33:47] decades, I have worked tirelessly alongside residents, stakeholders, and

[33:52] community partners to bring meaningful investment to this neighborhood. Papsco

[33:58] Point represents the type of thoughtful community centered development we have

[34:02] been working toward for many years. The zoning relief being requested should

[34:09] be approved because it is consistent with the goals, objectives, and

[34:12] recommendations outlined in the 2020 Cherry Hill Transformational Plan. The

[34:18] requested approvals will allow the community uh adopted vision to become a

[34:24] reality. Pabsco Point will be an attractive and

[34:28] environmentally responsible development that establish a high standard for

[34:33] future investment in the Cherry Hill community. The project demonstrates how

[34:37] growth can occur in a way that respects community values while creating lasting

[34:43] benefits for residents. The requested variances are driven by

[34:48] the unique physical uh characteristics of the property including its

[34:53] topography, site configuration, and planned public improvements. These

[34:58] variances are necessary to facilitate construction of the project as designed.

[35:04] Importantly, the requested relief will not negatively impact neighboring

[35:09] properties, public safety, or the character of the surrounding community.

[35:14] Instead, the variances will enable a high quality development that advances

[35:19] important public interest, supports citywide housing and economic

[35:24] development goals, and fulfills the community's long-standing vision for the

[35:29] former Patabco Elementary School site. For all of these reasons, I respectfully

[35:35] urge the board to approve the requested zoning relief and variances for Patsco

[35:40] Punk. This project represents years of planning, community input, and

[35:45] collaboration. It is consistent with Cherry Hill's adopted vision, provides

[35:50] meaningful benefits to residents, and creates a strong foundation for the

[35:55] community's continued growth and success. I thank you for your time.

[36:01] » Thank you. Any questions?

[36:11] May I May I be excused?

[36:13] » Sure. Sure. Sure. [laughter]

[36:22] My turn. Yes, sir. Thank you. Good afternoon, members of the board. I'm

[36:26] here as a resident of Cherry Hill. As a matter of fact, long-term resident. Uh

[36:31] I've been here since uh was about six months old. That area out there is very

[36:38] uh I have a love and affection for it that uh exceeds everything all except

[36:44] for being close to the bottom. That area sits on 360 acres out there. If the look

[36:51] at the surround look at the graphs and the pictures that they have, there's an

[36:55] elementary school there 159. I attended that school uh on the Round View

[37:01] roadside. There are trees out there and the school as I understand it right now

[37:07] carries the grades from two to six in the mornings. If you look at those

[37:11] pictures there, you see the greenery there. It's a lot of greenery there.

[37:14] Like to keep it that way. Uh that school that they're talking about what is 163 I

[37:20] believe it is. >> It's uh borders on Bridge, right? And if

[37:24] you come around that curve, it's very tight because it's public housing there.

[37:28] 160 uh I mean 159. I don't know the student population there, but I can tell

[37:34] you this. They have three or four crossing guards there at Bridge Road and

[37:39] uh Cherryland Road. Uh to put a unit they're talking about here is going to

[37:45] really create a big problem traffic-wise. You got buses coming in

[37:48] there with children every morning. I mean, every day. And uh they've got to

[37:53] traverse back and forth. And you got property there. You got town houses on

[37:57] the other side. You got public homes to the right of where they're talking about

[38:02] and directly across the street. As I'm as I recall, you put the height

[38:07] variation there. You're going to have some shade there. You might some

[38:10] sunlight might be blocked for those houses that are there. Those p those

[38:14] folks in public housing deserve the same respect that everybody else has when

[38:19] they get up in the morning. They should see that sunlight. Uh the third thing I

[38:23] want to talk about is the area around Round View Road. I don't know if you're

[38:28] familiar with that area, but when I was a little boy down at Cherryland,

[38:32] Cherryland goes south. Round view crosses it. Down on that

[38:37] corner, there's green grass there. The reason why that green grass is there is

[38:41] because there's a natural spring there. My mother used to take me down there to

[38:46] get water. You turn the faucet on, the water so cold, hurt your teeth. Well,

[38:51] that's all gone now because of the public house, because of the city yard

[38:55] that's there. They had homes there, but they closed them down because of the

[39:01] pollution of the land. All I'm saying is if you put this there, you got strain on

[39:06] the sewer line, strain on the water line, you got close to schools there.

[39:10] Uh, it's a lot to consider. Parking there is going to be very tight.

[39:15] Going to be very tight. And not far from there, a few blocks just north of there,

[39:20] I believe you got churches up there. So, people have to have the ability to go do

[39:25] the worship in every every uh weekend that they choose to do so. And park, I'm

[39:31] not saying that the buildings that uh Mr. Milson just talked about there to

[39:36] put uh buildings in there for the city, there's a shopping center up there,

[39:40] Cherry Hill shopping center. I understand it. the mayor's office. The

[39:43] mayor has an office there. And if you need work or that kind of employment,

[39:47] you can always go there. I mean, I don't see anything I don't see any value in

[39:52] putting something there extra that people already have access to. I just

[39:58] don't see the value of it. The value to me is the children. The children deserve

[40:02] what you see there. They deserve to see those trees. As a matter of fact, some

[40:06] of those students, the teachers take them out because they're wild animals

[40:09] that come up around that area. at night and they take them out and they show

[40:14] them the different plants and things that are growing there. You put a

[40:17] building there with 80 units there, you erase all that. 8 time 2 is 16. That's

[40:23] 160 people you want to impact in an area that's already tight because of the

[40:28] public housing that's there. It's right across the street. Uh Carver Road, uh

[40:34] parts of Round View, as a matter of fact, the public homes that were there,

[40:37] the government tore them down. That's all green now. is part of this whole

[40:42] redevelopment uh area for Cherry Hill. They want to make sure it's just what it

[40:47] is. And here you're talking about a setback. I think I was trying to make

[40:51] some notes here. The board has to look at the uniqueness of it. The community

[40:56] itself is unique. Why? Very simple. It's residential. It's not a building. It's

[41:01] not a construction of concrete buildings like you see down here. Every yard out

[41:06] there has a front and backyard. every house, front and backyard, including the

[41:11] uh public homes. And I'm just saying that that when you raise children, we

[41:16] had about 12,000 residents out there, I believe. And uh we're trying to make

[41:22] sure the community stays green. We don't want a whole lot of

[41:26] construction there. And those children shouldn't have to be subject uh

[41:30] subjected to that simply because uh uh they want to make sure that school

[41:36] becomes something else. some residents. Well, we've got construction on the

[41:40] other side of us over at Port Coington. They're moving in there very fast, but

[41:45] that whole area, I asked them, had they ever seen had they uh looked at the land

[41:50] across the bridge. Nobody said anything. Then they had a meeting at the

[41:54] commercial at the Cherry Hill Community Center. I went to that meeting. Son

[41:59] begged me not to go because uh well, in my old line of work, I got a lot of

[42:03] enemies. But anyway, uh I went and I saw the same man that

[42:09] was there for poor coveting and I said, "You told me that uh you didn't look at

[42:14] the land across the water." You know what he said to me? His response was a

[42:17] very simple one and very direct one. He said, "All we're doing is waiting for

[42:21] the mayor to say the public homes can go. They're going to put affordable

[42:25] housing there." Well, I don't know how you can do it with one check a month.

[42:31] And I think these people that live there deserve to have a community that they

[42:35] got faith and rely in. And those of us who live there expect to continue doing

[42:41] so as homeowners. But at the same time, I want those children to have what you

[42:45] see there. They should have the ability to see green. If you're going to do

[42:48] something, put something there that's uniform. You're asking for a height

[42:52] restriction, a height variance. Most of those, that's R six if I'm not mistaken.

[42:58] There's town homes, which means there's a front yard, there's a backyard. You

[43:04] didn't hear them mention any yard here. All they care, all they concerned about

[43:08] is the level of money that you can get, the impactness in the neighborhood. I

[43:14] don't think that's right. And that's why I'm standing here in defense of not

[43:19] allowing because if you want to put something there, I don't see why you

[43:22] can't put town houses there. If you want to put something, there's nothing

[43:26] stopping you from doing it because it's already zone R six.

[43:30] And the other thing is a strain that'll put on the community. We don't want to

[43:34] you develop an area like that. We're near the water.

[43:39] We want to make sure that uh uh we have access to things. And I think the city

[43:44] is as a matter of fact has closed it yard. They closed the yard down because

[43:49] of the pollution. You bring more people in here, you got to make changes. You

[43:54] got to have water. You got to have sewer. You got to have trash pickup. You

[43:59] got to have parking. You got to have a lot of things that impact that area. And

[44:05] it really impacts the area where the children are. There a lot of children

[44:08] where they're talking about every day. Not just one day a week, two days a

[44:12] week. Every day there children there. They go to school there. And I think

[44:18] they should deserve. They deserve what they're getting. The ability to see

[44:22] ecological things there, environmental things there, water, clean water, clean

[44:28] air, sunlight, things that a lot of people take for granted. I think they

[44:33] should be able to see every day. And I'm not going to hold you any longer

[44:37] because I got to pick my granddaughter up from school. But I will say this, I

[44:43] love that community. I'm 81 years old. Like I said, I've been there since I was

[44:47] 6 months old. and expect to continue doing so. Uh, it's got places for me to

[44:53] walk. The mayor put a $25 million fitness center down there. I go down

[44:59] indoor track, outdoor track. Go in there, sign in, walk. I can walk to it

[45:05] from my house. And so can the other residents. They even have

[45:10] uh what do they call it? Uh, robotics uh for seniors. Water water aerobics for

[45:17] seniors. That's important. And what I'm hearing here are business items. I'm not

[45:24] hearing residential. They going to put a trail down there so you can ride your

[45:27] bike through there. You can walk through there. The

[45:31] government hasn't even put any more public homes there. Veronica Avenue

[45:35] vacant. Cherry Hill Road, uh, on the other side

[45:40] of where they're talking about, you got public homes there. But if you go down a

[45:44] little further, it's all pretty much residential. There's open land there and

[45:49] at night you can see the deer come up in there, raccoons and a lot of other wild

[45:54] animals come up in there. I think the children deserve that. Not a big

[45:59] concrete building right next to the school. It's within walking distance.

[46:07] And I think that a lot of people here that couldn't be here today echo my same

[46:11] concerns. And uh like I always say, I think you

[46:16] should speak up when there's something uh that's important to you in life. This

[46:22] is important to me and I expect for the generations behind me to live there as

[46:27] well as I did and I thank you for your time.

[46:30] » Thank you. Um before we proceed, I do want to apologize Mr. Hoffber. Um I did

[46:35] not know that uh this gentleman was speaking in opposition. I didn't give

[46:38] you an opportunity to uh you know uh to yield before I allow yield as

[46:42] opposition. >> Um but and I I will make sure you have

[46:45] your time on the back end. Uh is there anyone else here today who would like to

[46:49] speak in opposition?

[46:54] » Okay, Mr. Hoff um Mr. Hoffberger. >> Sure. Thanks.

[46:57] » I have a couple questions. >> Um has this project undergone site plan

[47:04] review committee? >> Yes. Yes, it has. DPW been a part of the

[47:07] site plan review committee? >> I was not I I was a part of

[47:10] » Have they uh >> addressed Have they raised any concerns

[47:15] about uh utilities or or or uh >> this property will we will have

[47:21] utilities new utilities brought back on brought onto the site. Okay.

[47:24] » Um there will be additional trees planted so that it will be

[47:27] environmentally friendly and sustainable. um there isn't any impact

[47:32] that was noted with respect to impacting the school children or anything because

[47:36] initially this site accommodated two schools and there weren't traffic

[47:40] concerns. Um we're bringing half the amount of people in this area than used

[47:44] to attend those schools. So um there isn't going to be any impact. What we're

[47:48] doing is taking a blighted property that actually adversely affects property

[47:54] values in the community and a community that has been historically disinvested

[47:59] for over 20 decades or I not 20 decades, 20 years. Um, this is a community

[48:06] inspired project. Back in 2019, the Cherry Hill Development Corporation

[48:12] initiated a planning process because of fears, real fears about displacement of

[48:19] their community because they saw the pressures that were happening around

[48:22] them, the Port Coington project, the project that was going forward in

[48:26] Westport, and the community had real fears that uhoh, we're next. And I just

[48:32] firmly believe and I think there's another other members of the community

[48:35] would say when is it Cherry Hills turn to benefit from all the economic

[48:39] investment occurring around them where the community has a real voice. This

[48:45] project was originated and inspired through a master planning process. It

[48:50] was the community to identify the site. There was over 350 participants over a

[48:55] six-month process that participated and addressed real social economic concerns

[49:00] within the Cherry Hill community. One of the things that were raised, he said,

[49:04] the shopping center. This community has been devoid of a um grocery store for

[49:11] over two two decades. And one of the things that we learned when we went

[49:15] through that master planning process was that the economics of the community was

[49:19] a hindrance because there's a an overabundance of um individuals who live

[49:25] below the poverty um level that a qualified ger would not deem this

[49:31] community worthy that you needed to increase the population. Also the

[49:36] traffic counts was also a concern. Would you be able to get enough traffic to

[49:40] accommodate a qualified ger? What we're attempting to do with this project is is

[49:46] to integrate into this community [clears throat]

[49:49] new housing choice. There has not been any new multifamily development, new

[49:55] construction in this community in over 20 years. That is does not speak to

[50:01] neighborhood stability. There is an overabundance of blighted property in

[50:05] this community which has an adverse effect on property values.

[50:10] Um the poverty rate as I stated is over 40%. The unemployment rate in this

[50:16] community is over 7%. What this project is attempting to do is to address on a

[50:21] sizable scale to accommodate those issues. Providing quality housing so

[50:26] that folks are not housing cost burden. Yes, there's an over abundance of public

[50:31] housing in this community. I believe there's over 1,200 active units. And if

[50:35] you poll the residents that live in public housing, they would say they're

[50:38] paying astronomical amounts of um money towards the utilities because they're

[50:43] old and aging buildings. This building will be energy efficient where resident

[50:49] utility costs will go down, not up. Also, we're being very intentional and

[50:56] making sure that as this project is being built, it is a com uh a benefit to

[51:01] the community. Most developers do not think about how do we create a workforce

[51:05] strategy that will employ Cherry Hill residents. I can guarantee you most

[51:11] wouldn't consider it. It'll be the quickest way in and the quickest way out

[51:15] to generate profit. That has not been my motivation. When the community felt they

[51:20] were going to lose the community asset, they asked me, "How can you incorporate

[51:24] it in the Patical School building and the redevelopment?" And we were we

[51:28] actually programmed space for the South Baltimore Adult High School to address

[51:33] um the high school attainment issue in Cherry Hill. They have since found a

[51:37] permanent home. Instead of just building more units, what I did was look for

[51:42] another way of addressing a critical community need and unemployment,

[51:47] creating real opportunity. None of us can control what's happening at the

[51:51] federal level at this point outside of voting in November, but that's a another

[51:55] topic for another day. [laughter] But what we can do to address the fact

[51:59] that many individuals in this community don't have the resources or the luxuries

[52:05] um that other more affluent neighborhoods benefit from is let's

[52:09] create income pathways where they can actually thrive and not just survive. So

[52:15] providing an opportunity for folks to get workforce development training in

[52:19] HVAC, in um plumbing, two critical um construction trades that there's a

[52:25] current deficit right now. These um getting being certified the

[52:31] organization that I've partnered with will have certification where you will

[52:34] be certified in Maryland, Virginia, and DC.

[52:38] We're now talking about not just helping someone get a job, but giving them a

[52:43] career pathway to be a licensed plumber or a licensed

[52:47] HVAC um installer. We're talking about now people's income going into six

[52:52] figures. That's building real community wealth that is changing the trajectory

[52:58] of the community and changing it from within. So, we're not talking about

[53:03] gentrifying a community where you're just bringing outside folks and the

[53:06] people who live there. Oh well, we'll see what happens. Let's uplift the

[53:10] community from within. And so that is the change that we're

[53:14] attempting to make with the Papsco Point development. And again, I said that this

[53:18] was a community inspired. It was not thrust upon a community. It was through

[53:23] an intense six-month process where we evaluated where was there available land

[53:28] to introduce something new that while the community is a partner in this

[53:34] project as well because the Cherry Hill Development Corporation is a co-partner

[53:38] co-developer in this project so they have an ownership state I'm a minority

[53:42] certified um Baltimore city business owner as well this is really taking and

[53:48] uplifting all of the master plans in the city that has adopted about creat

[53:52] creating real economic development and opportunities for um merging businesses

[53:57] as well as community organizations. I would say that you know the Cherry Hill

[54:03] Elementary School is a 21st century school and that master plan clearly

[54:07] stated that one of the objectives of that plan was to spur other economic

[54:11] growth and then and one of those things was new housing.

[54:18] I just know that when I grew up, I was able to imagine and dream because I

[54:23] lived in stabled housing. I was not wealthy. My parents were not wealthy,

[54:28] but I didn't have to worry about coming home and the lights would work or would

[54:33] the plumbing work or would it be cold in the uh in the home? Because my immediate

[54:38] needs, most basic needs were met, I was able to imagine see myself going to

[54:43] college. I agree with this gentleman. Children do have a right. They have a

[54:49] right to imagine, to set goals and priorities, and live in better. Right

[54:54] now, this community doesn't have it better. Right now, this community has

[54:58] been just surviving. But there are advocates in this community who has

[55:02] fought long and hard way before I got to Cherry Hill. Mr. Middleton has been

[55:06] there and in the in the trenches way before I I I came into Cherry Hill

[55:10] community and have worked tirelessly. There have been others who have been

[55:14] shephering this effort forward for decades. And there is now time that the

[55:19] community will show that it all the aspirations that these plans state they

[55:24] can do actually can happen with the community at the hymn.

[55:30] » I'll yield if you have anything else to say.

[55:33] » Great response. >> I'd like to say something in rebuttal.

[55:36] » Sorry to say there's no rebuttal. >> No rebuttal.

[55:38] » Yes. So, um, before you before you guys continue, I have a a couple clarifying

[55:42] questions, >> uh, regarding height.

[55:45] » Um, because this the height of this building will be 45 ft. Um, is a

[55:51] conditional use required? >> No. So, I think I misspoke or maybe my

[55:54] notes were out of date. So, I because I was thinking about the old version of

[55:58] the older version of zoning code which had up to 45 ft with conditional use

[56:02] approval. That's no longer the case. It's 45 by right given given the width

[56:06] of the street. Okay, >> they are going to 62 based

[56:10] [clears throat] on the measurement methodology. So they the elevation

[56:13] showed basically from like the ground looking up it'd be 45 ft but from the

[56:18] way the zoning code measures height it's from the mean curb line. So the curb

[56:23] » to the top that's 62 ft. So that's what requires the variance but

[56:28] » Mr. top explained like the rationale which planning supports and staff would

[56:32] agree would make sense as a uh rationale for why

[56:36] » and the residential portion is about is about right correct

[56:39] » I'm sorry >> the res don't need a correct so in fact

[56:42] the question I think might you can ask to listenit is the traffic impact from

[56:47] the proposed conditional use which is the educational facility vocational

[56:51] » yes that's where I'm going to get next next so I want to learn more about uh

[56:56] the educational facility uh conditional use. Uh

[57:02] namely uh just want to make sure that this will be will you know fit under

[57:07] article 32 section 1 305 uh the two require the two sort of requirements.

[57:12] Can you tell me more uh namely will there be tuition charged to the

[57:15] students? >> Um there I I don't have all the details

[57:18] but I believe yes. Okay. Um participants will have to pay to get their

[57:21] certification >> and what subjects will there be?

[57:25] » I'm sorry. Do you do you have clarity on what subjects there may be?

[57:29] » So, it will be certifications to obtain licenses in plumbing and in HVAC. I am

[57:34] not an expert in those areas. So, I feel like I just want to make sure [laughter]

[57:37] that >> make sure it's a vocational school. So,

[57:39] that's fine. Yes. >> Um, do you know how many students or

[57:42] maximum amount of students? >> We're not we're we're not looking to

[57:45] exceed between 15 to 20 students um per session.

[57:48] » Okay. Per per se per uh session >> session. It takes four years to obtain

[57:52] your certification. Up to four years to obtain your certification. And how many

[57:56] staff for those students? >> I don't have that specifics just yet.

[58:00] » Okay. The zoning code imposes uh parking

[58:04] maximums um for uh for vocational facilities. Uh

[58:10] I think it's one per 25 students uh and one per 20 one per 20 staff. And so I

[58:16] just really want to nail nail down on that to make sure that we weren't

[58:19] exceeding them. But it seems with 90 with uh 20 students well how about this?

[58:23] Will there be any parking spots set aside for students uh as opposed to

[58:27] residents? >> None reserved.

[58:29] » No, we're not having any reserved. Okay. >> And the and the 90 to be clear is is

[58:32] within the maximum for the for the residential so it can transfer over to

[58:37] the extent necessary. >> Okay.

[58:40] » Um there is a >> and again I would say the goal of this

[58:45] program is to target Cherry Hill residents so we don't anticipate any

[58:49] additional traffic concerns. We'll certainly open it up because we can't

[58:52] discriminate, but um we really are going to um push Cherry Hill residents to

[58:57] benefit from this resource. >> Uh you have a LOI with Affinity

[59:02] » uh to operate the educational facility. Is that contingent upon any uh sort of

[59:09] entitlements or anything else financing? >> It's that we finish the project

[59:13] certainly because they'll be moving into the building.

[59:18] » Okay.

[59:23] Any other questions for the applicants?

[59:33] » As far as your >> microphone,

[59:41] I got a big voice.

[59:48] » The intent with affinity. How strongly do you believe you can uh attest to it

[59:54] actually happening? >> Well, they have other facilities and

[59:58] other areas of um the state of Maryland and they're looking to expand into

[1:00:02] Baltimore and so I actually um came across them before they actually started

[1:00:06] their headway into Baltimore and got a commitment to them to come into the

[1:00:10] point um project. So I have a very strong indication that that will come to

[1:00:15] fruition. Do you have any type of time frame when

[1:00:18] you think this thing could get wrapped up?

[1:00:21] » So, the project has to go through uh um project financing. And so, um I

[1:00:25] anticipate that we'll be submitting our low-income housing tax credit

[1:00:29] application by the fall of this year to get through CDA's process. Usually takes

[1:00:33] 12 to 16 months and then you'll get to a financial closing um which will allow

[1:00:38] the start of construction. construction is for this particular site and all of

[1:00:42] its challenges and moving dirt will take approximately 16 months. So now we're in

[1:00:47] 2028. Um uh and so we would think after that

[1:00:51] the building will be um placed in service.

[1:00:56] » Okay. My only question is if you have intentions on having affinity

[1:01:01] be a major part of this >> Mhm.

[1:01:04] » then you can't get any type of u settlement early

[1:01:09] in this process. There are a lot of things that you're going to have to put

[1:01:12] in place to make either them or whoever the next committed operator would be to

[1:01:19] to stand by. So we here may have to be able to give you conditions that either

[1:01:26] affinity may not want to meet or the new director may

[1:01:31] » have to meet. You understand what I'm saying?

[1:01:33] » And that that's the only problem with a situation of this type.

[1:01:39] » I think well I guess it's the board the board can place conditions as you deem

[1:01:43] appropriate on the the proposed conditional use approval. Um I think as

[1:01:49] um the applicant is stating yet they don't have an official lease um with

[1:01:52] them and as you know the approval would run with the land. So in a worst case

[1:01:58] scenario, a if affinity doesn't proceed, there could be some other operator who

[1:02:03] could do conditional use or the commercial vocational school. And maybe

[1:02:08] there's no problem with that, but that'd be something to consider like if it's if

[1:02:12] there's a bad actor commercial vocational school out there that you

[1:02:16] wanted to think about or avoid or have some outside conditions on no operations

[1:02:20] after 10 p.m. or something, but then the residents would be upstairs who would be

[1:02:25] impacted first. So they would be the ones as a landlord would be worried

[1:02:28] about making sure that it's not going to be disturbing to the residents who live

[1:02:32] upstairs. So maybe there's a natural check there. But that would be something

[1:02:36] » that does get me. Um don't want to mess that red contract up, right? So not too

[1:02:41] much riff raff. But um uh can you can you I'm going to uh I think I heard

[1:02:47] earlier Mr. Mr. Hoffber that the hours operation for the facility will be in

[1:02:50] the evening. >> That that's the intent right now. We

[1:02:53] were just kind of confirming that that at this point recognizing the reality of

[1:02:56] the situation. We'd be hesitant to um

[1:03:01] to firmly say that 5:30 to 8:30 is the exact time of operation. What we can say

[1:03:06] for sure is that the space um is kind of designed for the number of people. Um

[1:03:13] the 15 to 20 students is uh in terms of realistic operational

[1:03:20] uh capacity, that's that's where we are. and and it might be that uh in two years

[1:03:26] affinity says well we'd like to open at 4:30 or something like that. Now the

[1:03:30] design of the program which would have people in the field most of the time

[1:03:34] would make it such that yeah I mean it's not a nineto-five traditional type of

[1:03:37] school. These are people who are here to get their licenses in a certain type of

[1:03:40] trade field work is important. So, so the actual onampus

[1:03:45] activity will both be small in quantity because of the number of students and

[1:03:48] small in in operational hours because because most of their time needs to be

[1:03:52] out in the field. Um but but it I did say the hours I do think that

[1:03:57] realistically, you know, if you're if you're considering conditions, we would

[1:04:00] be hesitant to stand so firmly on those hours.

[1:04:04] So, so the reason I asked and um and I want to get on the record is because you

[1:04:08] know one of the things that we have to account for is traffic, intensity of

[1:04:12] traffic. >> And so if you're saying that the the

[1:04:16] vocational school will be operating in the evening when presumably the primary

[1:04:19] school will not be >> open then that would mitigate any sort

[1:04:23] of like traffic >> um intensity problems that we could have

[1:04:26] » right and that is the that is the intent right now. Oh, and also just in terms of

[1:04:29] the scale, I mean, you're talking about in total this this uh Papsco Point will

[1:04:35] have 120 residential units and we're talking about 15 students, 15 and 20

[1:04:40] students, some of whom will be walking from other points of Cherry Hill. So,

[1:04:43] » how many residential units? >> Well, there's 80 in this phase and then

[1:04:46] the second phase would have 40. So, that >> So, um so we do think

[1:04:51] » I'm not going to talk about seven. We we on this phase 80 80 [laughter] units,

[1:04:55] right? 80 units. Okay. >> Um

[1:04:57] » at scale, we do hope that the board can recognize

[1:05:01] that it is a small impact of traffic. >> And I will also add that um most of the

[1:05:06] pickup and drop off for the Cherry Hill Elementary um middle school is on the

[1:05:10] other side. It doesn't affect Round View Road at all.

[1:05:13] » Okay. >> And and there has been a a a vocational

[1:05:19] or adult education school on this premise. Yes.

[1:05:21] » Uh actively in the old Papskco Elementary School. So that that those

[1:05:26] those two educational facilities have operated in tandem without significant

[1:05:31] traffic. >> You know how how long ago?

[1:05:33] » Uh uh I believe they occupied in 2020. It was during co um when they started

[1:05:42] and they exited in 2023 because uh I believe the heating system just

[1:05:48] completely died and it was no longer uh attainable for them to continue to

[1:05:52] operate in that space. And it was the adult high school as well as they also

[1:05:56] had several um nonprofit organizations that support different um efforts in

[1:06:02] Sherry Hill also sharing that space. >> Okay. Um

[1:06:08] get Oh, Moabed. Uh I I understand that Moab may occupy certain portion Yes. of

[1:06:14] the space also. This was conversations that I've had with Senator Ferguson's

[1:06:18] office um about how do we um when we we're going to utilize the adult high

[1:06:22] school of how to create in a nice continuum of um education. Um uh they

[1:06:28] have a current South Baltimore location that's grossly underutilized and they

[1:06:33] thought this location could be an ideal location to um increase those numbers as

[1:06:37] well as help support the project. And so, um, although the adult high school

[1:06:41] has now found a permanent home somewhere else, um, I was being intentional of

[1:06:45] trying to find something, um, to put in it space that again addressed the social

[1:06:49] economic determin. And I feel like this is actually a better, um, actually fit

[1:06:53] because now you have people who are getting certifications and are now ready

[1:06:57] for placement to be placed in jobs. >> In terms of scope, that would include

[1:07:01] one or two staff members from the mayor's office. Absolutely. And how far

[1:07:04] along had those discussions? Is there any LOI or any binding agreement

[1:07:07] between? >> Not not at this moment. now.

[1:07:09] » Okay. Um, >> just on that point because the staff

[1:07:12] were talking about that issue and we interpret it as what the applicants did

[1:07:17] with one or two staff because if it were a full-blown office, it would be a

[1:07:20] separate use that would require approval. It' be a government facility,

[1:07:24] right, >> or office.

[1:07:26] » So, that would be a separate use if it becomes its own thing. But if it's just

[1:07:29] having space within the vocational school to have desks, that would be

[1:07:34] still >> the vocational school.

[1:07:36] » Yeah. fit into these standards for accessories.

[1:07:40] » Okay, so we got two variances before us. Uh

[1:07:46] how will uh the proposed building's height compared to the existing

[1:07:50] building? >> Um

[1:07:54] I believe it would be a couple feet taller.

[1:07:57] » Yeah, >> less than five feet.

[1:08:00] » Uh >> we don't have exact measurements of the

[1:08:02] of the existing building. >> Okay. But I do remember early on when we

[1:08:06] um was doing that analysis, we were also looking at that because we wanted to

[1:08:10] think about impacts um far as a community because I've been doing this a

[1:08:14] long time and I know light becomes a challenge, but it's not it is slightly

[1:08:18] taller but it's not terribly taller than the existing structure at this highest

[1:08:22] point. >> Okay.

[1:08:25] Uh

[1:08:29] DOT asks you guys to dedicate a portion of your property. Uh is that an easement

[1:08:33] or >> to be clear they have not they have not

[1:08:36] yet asked in our experience and in Kimley Horn the the civil engineers

[1:08:41] experience they will ask >> okay

[1:08:43] » that that is an expectation >> and I have already given agreement to

[1:08:47] Kimley Horn that if that is asked that I'm perfectly fine in

[1:08:50] » so you guys have a verbal nothing binding

[1:08:53] » it hasn't gone through DOT review yet it's it's something that was anticipated

[1:08:57] during the site plan um um approval process that that would be a request

[1:09:02] And so it was um I had already we already talked about it and I said it

[1:09:05] it's reasonable. It's not something that I haven't seen in development before.

[1:09:11] » Any other questions of the applicant?

[1:09:18] » Are we ready to discuss? Um

[1:09:25] I'd like to propose that we adopt the findings in the plan in the planning

[1:09:28] department's memo. Um, I guess beginning with the conditional use, um, you know,

[1:09:34] after hearing testimony and reviewing their application, um, you know, I do

[1:09:39] not believe that operating a, uh, educational facility, uh, of this

[1:09:46] magnitude, this location will lead to any adverse consequences that would go

[1:09:51] above and beyond what we would expect of a uh, vocational school anywhere else

[1:09:56] uh, within the zoning district. And so for that reason, I am a yes for that

[1:10:00] conditional use.

[1:10:10] » Can I open it back up to a question? >> Sure. Sure.

[1:10:13] » Only because of my lack of knowledge am I asking this question. Could you in

[1:10:19] simplistic terms explain to me what the Enough Act

[1:10:24] actually entails? So the enough act was um a initiative by Governor Moore to

[1:10:30] address childhood poverty and he was targeting specifically communities of

[1:10:35] color that has been historically um disinvested or um are still dealing with

[1:10:41] past discriminatory housing policies. And so it's a statewide initiative. Um

[1:10:46] Cherry Hill was adopted as an enough community. And so there was an

[1:10:50] investment by Maryland Department of Housing um of $3 million that was

[1:10:55] provided to the Cherry Hill um strong um organization which is the community

[1:11:01] quarterback under the purpose bill model. Um and they from there they um

[1:11:07] spread out those funds among various stakeholders doing things that address

[1:11:10] childhood poverty. So it could have been workforce development training, it could

[1:11:14] have been youth empowerment activities, it could have been helping to build

[1:11:17] capacities of organizations and other programs.

[1:11:20] » So the vehicles available that have already been put in place and are

[1:11:24] currently operative, I guess you would call it that can support your situation.

[1:11:30] » Absolutely. I think there that the state recognized that this community has has

[1:11:34] had a long history of disinvestment and so there is an an intentional target to

[1:11:39] try to bring resources to this community. I would say that Senator

[1:11:44] Ferguson was very instrumental in introducing the purpose bill model which

[1:11:49] was um a model out of uh Atlanta, Georgia. The organization actually took

[1:11:54] over um a I don't remember all the facts. Oh my gosh. But um I believe it

[1:11:59] was a very large um public housing or low-income community and they um operate

[1:12:06] under three um three pillars um cradle to college educational pipeline um

[1:12:14] workforce development strategies and overall community health.

[1:12:17] » I think I write your [laughter] ma'am have you I'm sorry I ma'am could

[1:12:23] you please stand and be sworn because I think you just spoke and that was on the

[1:12:26] record. Oh, I apologize.

[1:12:31] » My name is Tracy Garrett. T R A C E Y. Last name G A R R E.

[1:12:36] » Thank you. >> Um and so the whole purpose is to help

[1:12:40] to change the social economic um conditions of a um historically

[1:12:46] impoverished community to help um improve social economic determinance. So

[1:12:51] there's intentional um push by the community to help improve educational

[1:12:55] outcomes. So they have um various nonprofits that work with the schools to

[1:12:59] help um with school performance and address um matters that impede children

[1:13:04] from getting to school providing afterchool programs to help with um

[1:13:08] academic outcomes um and support. Uh there's certainly um indivi entities in

[1:13:14] Cherry Hill that helps with workforce development um outcomes, providing soft

[1:13:18] skills, providing job opportunities and training. This all of this is just to

[1:13:22] complement what's already going on on multiple fronts. Understanding that not

[1:13:27] everyone's going to have the desire to want to get a certification in the

[1:13:30] construction trade. There's um efforts I believe with Harbor Hospital to try to

[1:13:34] improve um health outcomes as well. And they're looking at um exploring

[1:13:39] opportunities um far as employment to help folks become licensed um in in the

[1:13:44] medical profession as well. So there's a multistrong approach um going on in this

[1:13:48] community. And so this is just to complement some of the work that's on

[1:13:52] that's happening and to um certainly spur additional physical economic

[1:13:57] development outside of just the investments of the two 21st century

[1:14:00] schools and the health and wellness center.

[1:14:04] » Thank you. Any other questions for the applicants?

[1:14:10] » Um I believe we were um voting on the conditional use. Um I am in favor of the

[1:14:17] conditional use. also

[1:14:22] in favor.

[1:14:32] » I agree. I'm in favor. >> I recuse.

[1:14:36] » I recuse. >> Oh, so moving to first the height

[1:14:40] variance. Um the applicant has stated that due to the topography uh and the

[1:14:45] slope of the of the building uh although the building is 40 ft 45 ft from uh

[1:14:51] ground to uh roof line uh from mean curb height uh to building

[1:14:59] height uh there's the need for a 17t I believe variance

[1:15:05] um I believe do believe that these are sort of that this is a issue that is

[1:15:11] caused caused by sort of not by any um behavioral actions by the advocates

[1:15:17] themselves but due to the physical conditions of the site itself. Um and so

[1:15:23] strict compliance with the code will require them uh to build uh a smaller

[1:15:28] building which will allow much less uh density on the site than as is by right

[1:15:35] which may sort of make the project not nonviable. And so uh

[1:15:41] adopting the findings of the planning department, I am a yes uh for the

[1:15:46] variance uh for height

[1:15:56] » also. Yes.

[1:16:00] » Yes.

[1:16:07] That's three. Do it. >> Yep. And then the last one was a

[1:16:10] setback. >> Set back. Um

[1:16:16] there's a variance of let me see how many feet nine 7 feet

[1:16:23] 11T I believe >> in the required 20.

[1:16:26] » Yeah. So 9 foot variance is required. Uh there's only 11 foot setback here and

[1:16:31] that is uh caused by a uh a need to dedicate at least a portion of

[1:16:40] the land uh to the public rideway to allow a safe uh pedestrian uh

[1:16:47] environment. Uh that land will be dedicated to department of

[1:16:50] transportation. And so this is sort of an exceptional circumstance uh that is

[1:16:54] entirely caused uh by the code and not by the actions themselves. It is a

[1:16:58] desire of the applicant uh to ensure that the safety of pedestrians and those

[1:17:03] who uh both live in the community uh and who may be students there are able to

[1:17:09] access it safely and so adopting the findings in the planning department. I'm

[1:17:15] uh a yes to the uh front yard uh setbacks

[1:17:26] » also. Yes. To the front yard setback. >> I'm in agreement. Yes.

[1:17:32] » I think that's all three. Thank you guys for

[1:17:42] » So, I'm going to have to step away at 2:30.

[1:17:44] » Two more minutes. >> In 2:30.

[1:17:46] » Oh, yeah. Well, we can start. We should be able to get through the other one.

[1:17:49] » Yeah. Quickly. >> We'll take [clears throat] a brief

[1:17:52] pause, rush from Brit, and go off the record.

[1:18:24] Oh, the cherry. Yeah.

[1:18:29] » I don't think so.

[1:18:40] » Well, I've already uh blown blown the record unfortunately.

[1:18:45] » So, but I but I will get us uh I had that 2:30 call.

[1:18:51] » You ready to go?

[1:18:56] What are we thinking? Are we thinking >> short?

[1:19:14] » Yeah, we lost. >> Too bor. [laughter]

[1:19:20] » Wait a minute. I think one of those interns was knocking doors. Was he

[1:19:24] running for state committee?

[1:19:29] » I thought they were part of your project and I was like,

[1:19:32] » "No, you were like very interested." [laughter]

[1:19:49] » Mr. Clark

[1:20:19] That's fantastic.

[1:20:30] That's why I was like, let's make it quick. So,

[1:20:34] » you're ready. >> I know you got it in

[1:20:39] [laughter] recovering from my illness.

[1:20:41] » You're okay. there.

[1:20:48] [laughter]

[1:20:51] » Like this is my nap time. >> I know. I know.

[1:20:57] » I knew too much. I was starting to feel better.

[1:20:59] » Really? >> That's That's how they get you.

[1:21:02] » It is how they get right. >> Yeah. I thought I was right. the day.

[1:21:05] » I had like social thing on Saturday and then I deep cleaned my house on Sunday

[1:21:10] and then I had a full day at work yesterday.

[1:21:16] » Yesterday was really hard. I [laughter] had like a four o'clock meeting and it

[1:21:20] was virtual and internal and they were editing a document in real time.

[1:21:26] » Wow. >> And then discussing where in the

[1:21:28] SharePoint it should be filed >> and I was whiteing it because I couldn't

[1:21:32] leave. I was already at the office. So it wasn't like I could like

[1:21:44] » last last day

[1:21:48] still make a late lunch

[1:21:52] time.

[1:21:56] » So you said you're ready to start. >> Yes, sir. We can go back on the record.

[1:22:00] Mhm.

[1:22:05] back on the record. >> Now recalling case 2687

[1:22:09] 28 26 through 2840 Westwood Avenue. Um Rosenberg Martin is here to represent

[1:22:13] the appellent NHP Foundation. First we will hear from planning and staff.

[1:22:19] 2826 Westwood Avenue is appeal number 260087.

[1:22:25] Uh the proposal is for a conditional use for a community center as along with

[1:22:29] some variances for a shed and a parking space.

[1:22:33] Uh it's currently eight rowhouse style lots that the applicant proposes to

[1:22:38] consolidate. Uh they're all unimproved. Uh the requested conditional use again

[1:22:43] for a community center would serve uh as the clubhouse for a new development

[1:22:47] which planning is in support of that conditional use for the reasons outlined

[1:22:51] in the staff report. There are two variances being requested for a shed

[1:22:55] that will be in the rear of the property. Um the zoning code under table

[1:23:00] 15601 allows a shed as a permitted encroachment if the shed is 120 square

[1:23:06] ft or smaller. In this case it'll be 240 ft. Uh therefore it's not allowed as a

[1:23:12] permitted encroachment and variances are required.

[1:23:15] Uh it'll project to within 10 feet of the rear lot line where 25 feet is

[1:23:20] required and it will also project to within 8.2 of the interior side lot line

[1:23:26] where 10 ft is required. Uh we understand planning understands that

[1:23:29] there are some trees on the site in the rear of the property uh that would need

[1:23:34] to be eliminated to meet the setback variances. Um so because of that

[1:23:39] condition planning is in support of the those two variances for the shed and the

[1:23:43] conditional use. This is not addressed in the staff report but we had one more

[1:23:48] variance request uh come in which is for as you can see on the site plan a single

[1:23:54] ADA parking space that's forward of the building. uh that's needing a variance

[1:23:58] under section section 1641 uh B1 which both prohibits parking in

[1:24:05] the required front yard and prohibits parking forward of the front building

[1:24:09] line. Uh generally planning is unsupportive of uh variances on outright

[1:24:14] prohibitions but in this case again because of the wooded condition in the

[1:24:18] rear and because this would just be a single ADA parking space we are no

[1:24:22] objection on that variance. So, support of conditional use rear yard and

[1:24:27] interior sideyard variances for the shed and no objection on the front parking

[1:24:31] spot variances. Thank you. Uh, Mrs. Ree, could you please have your uh client

[1:24:35] stand and be sworn?

[1:24:43] » Do you swear or under the penalty of tell the truth, the whole truth, and

[1:24:48] nothing but the truth in the testimony that you're about to give?

[1:24:51] » I do. >> You spell and state your your last name.

[1:24:54] » Gabbor Happy. G A B R I E L L E H A P I

[1:25:03] » M Re Let's really focus on these variances today.

[1:25:06] » We'll hit them all. We'll hit them all hopefully quickly. Um Drew Tilden,

[1:25:10] Rosenberg, Martin Greenberg. Uh for the record, I'm here on behalf of the

[1:25:14] applicant and I am joined today by Miss Gabrielle Hy who is a representative of

[1:25:19] the applicant, the NHP Foundation. Um thank you Mr. Walker for a very thorough

[1:25:25] presentation. Um you have outlined the variances specifically. So I'll just go

[1:25:30] a little bit into the existing conditions of the site and then uh the

[1:25:34] proposal. So this property is comprised of eight vacant lots. And then there's

[1:25:38] also a paper alley and a portion of 1700 Gertrude. I've included um a tax plat.

[1:25:45] Oh, it actually is not outlined on this tax plat. If you look to the north of

[1:25:50] those row home lots, it's that paper alley above it. And then there's also

[1:25:54] that tiny section of um the adjacent lot that is the Dukeland Town Homes lot

[1:25:59] that's going to be subdivided and then all consolidated together.

[1:26:04] Um so this is again it's located at the end of Westwood Avenue and it abuts the

[1:26:08] existing Dukeland Towns public housing development. Um it's presently

[1:26:12] unimproved and it's heavily wooded. Um, I think we can see that to some extent

[1:26:17] in that photo, but I also have some aerial images that are um when the trees

[1:26:22] are in bloom that gives you a little bit of a better sense in uh the materials I

[1:26:26] passed out. Um, with the exception though of one area, there's a small

[1:26:30] paved area in the rear of this property. Um, and that's important because that is

[1:26:35] going to be where the shed is going. Uh so the applicant in terms of this

[1:26:39] project is in partnership with HABC renovating the adjacent um Dupland

[1:26:44] public housing development and then in addition to that they're revating

[1:26:48] renovating the subject site and constructing a clubhouse. This clubhouse

[1:26:52] is going to be exclusively for the use of Dukeland residents. It is going to be

[1:26:56] um uh for all intents and purposes um a community um center for the Dupland

[1:27:03] residents. Um, in addition to that, there's going to be a play area behind

[1:27:07] the community center. I've included renderings of that in the file. Um, and

[1:27:11] then there's going to be, as stated, a shed that is going to be 12 by 20 ft

[1:27:16] that is going to be in the rear portion of the property where there's already um

[1:27:20] a paved area. And then, uh, there's also going to be one parking space in front

[1:27:25] of the building. And that one parking space is the handicap space. The site is

[1:27:30] actually predominantly designed um to be walkable since it is going to be

[1:27:34] exclusively for the adjacent Dukeland residents. Uh but the handicap space is

[1:27:38] placed in a location um where it is going to allow those residents who can't

[1:27:42] walk to the center uh to still um accessibly um take advantage of the

[1:27:47] amenity. In terms of outreach, the applicant has shared its plans with

[1:27:51] Councilman Torrance and they plan again along with HABC to keep an open line of

[1:27:56] communication with the community. Uh I have on page three outlined uh the

[1:28:01] specific relief requested. Uh there's the front yard setback which is.7 feet

[1:28:06] instead of the 20 ft required. We have 10 ft provided for the rear yard instead

[1:28:11] of 25. Uh 8.2 ft for the interior side instead of 10. And then again that

[1:28:16] variance uh to permit the um off- streetet parking in front of the

[1:28:21] building line. Uh I have outlined all of the conditional use uh considerations

[1:28:27] that you all are required to consider as you find appropriate thoroughly in the

[1:28:32] memorandum that I submitted. Um but in the interest of time I'm going to move

[1:28:36] toward um the required findings. Um, so first of all, there's no facts or

[1:28:40] circumstances that would indicate that the establishment, location,

[1:28:44] construction, maintenance, uh, or operation of this clubhouse, uh, the

[1:28:48] community center is going to be detrimental to or endanger the public

[1:28:52] health, safety, security, general welfare, or morals, um, much less

[1:28:56] anything that would indicate that this use is going to have a negative impact

[1:28:59] above and beyond what is inherent to a community center at um, any other

[1:29:03] location in the R six zoning district. It's not procluded by any law and there

[1:29:08] are no facts or circumstances that would indicate that the proposed center would

[1:29:12] be contrary to community interest and certainly it will not be um contrary in

[1:29:17] any way that's above and beyond what's inherent to such a use in the R six

[1:29:20] district. Um this approval is in harmony with the purpose of the code and more

[1:29:25] specifically promoting and protecting public health, welfare and quality of

[1:29:29] life. Um this is clearly going to improve the quality of life of the Dupin

[1:29:32] residents. Um moving on to the variances. So I think generally um the

[1:29:38] same argument applies to all of the variances that we are requesting in

[1:29:42] terms of the uniqueness and practical difficulty. Um so in terms of

[1:29:46] uniqueness, there's peculiar to topography on this site. Unlike most

[1:29:51] sites in the R six district, it is heavily forested and that limits

[1:29:55] locations where both the shed and this handicap parking space can be placed. Um

[1:29:59] so this proposed location in terms of the shed is on an existing paved area

[1:30:04] and then on top of that um the proposed location of the off street parking space

[1:30:10] the handicaps parking space is in really the only location that is compatible

[1:30:14] with both the topography and and creating an accessible path um for those

[1:30:19] who are utilizing the handicap space. So to require the applicant to comply with

[1:30:24] these setback requirements um would really preclude the applicant from

[1:30:27] including these necessary maintenance sheds and the necessary handicap parking

[1:30:32] space. Um so to require the strict enforcement of the codes regulations

[1:30:37] would give rise to a practical difficulty. Um I ask now I've outlined

[1:30:43] all of the supplemental findings in my memo. I'm sure that they're also in the

[1:30:47] planning department's memo. So, in the interest of time, um I will invite any

[1:30:52] questions that you all may have. Um and again, I'm I'm happy to orally go

[1:30:55] through everything >> and I just told Liam or Liam, I told

[1:31:01] Leland he can take his call and so I don't want you to feel like you have to

[1:31:05] speak a mile a minute. >> I [laughter] I totally appreciate that.

[1:31:09] » But you you covered that very clearly. >> That's that's always the goal.

[1:31:13] » Um does anyone have any questions? put the microphone on just in case you you

[1:31:18] ch Oh, thank you. Thank you. >> Thanks.

[1:31:20] » Um we can just go through one by one. Does

[1:31:24] anybody have any questions regarding conditional use?

[1:31:30] » Does anybody have any question regarding the front yard setback?

[1:31:48] And I appreciate Miss Tilden. This is excellent.

[1:31:52] » Thank you. >> So if you guys need this summarized in

[1:31:54] her packet, that first one um has them all listed out with a summary if you

[1:31:58] need to refresh your memory.

[1:32:04] Any questions on any of the other variants? Real yard set back. Interior

[1:32:08] sideyard set back.

[1:32:29] » And you did get to off streetet parking. >> Yes.

[1:32:32] » That was quick. I was like, >> we're just we're moving through today.

[1:32:36] » All right. Any other questions, Miss? >> Questions?

[1:32:41] » Did you all have anything else that you wanted to cover?

[1:32:44] » Nothing further. Thank you. >> Okay.

[1:32:47] I'm just going to organize some of the documents real quick.

[1:33:17] And Justin, you did not have a planning memo or did I just like speed through

[1:33:21] that? You did. >> Yeah. Okay, great.

[1:33:23] » It might not have made it into >> It did not make it into the packet.

[1:33:26] That's what I wanted to just >> It should be in the folder.

[1:33:30] » Got it. Thank you. >> And there's a copy in the binder in

[1:33:34] which >> before I said

[1:33:38] » adopt plannings findings. I just wanted to read it.

[1:33:41] » And if I may, if we may, if you're willing to want to adopt the findings

[1:33:47] submitted by applicant because I think you mentioned one of the variances isn't

[1:33:51] in the staff report. >> Yeah. I mean, you said it, Sunny. You

[1:33:56] said it was in >> the uh planning memo. It should be in

[1:34:01] your binder. It's probably the first. It was originally the first case, so it's

[1:34:05] probably under tab three or four. >> Okay.

[1:34:07] » And then it's in the electronic folder as well.

[1:34:10] » Thanks. >> But just to address that point,

[1:34:12] planning's memo does not include uh the variances required for the front parking

[1:34:18] spot, only for the shed and the conditional use. So,

[1:34:20] » great. Thanks. >> Those will be needed in addition to our

[1:34:22] findings. >> Okay. Thank you.

[1:34:27] which is because they weren't in our initial application. I want to clarify.

[1:34:31] » Got it.

[1:34:36] » I had to turn on my substitute chair hat halfway through your [laughter] thing. I

[1:34:40] was like, "Okay." Um, all right.

[1:34:52] All

[1:35:02] right. Seeing as there are no further questions

[1:35:08] can go ahead and go to a vote.

[1:35:12] We'll start with conditional use community center.

[1:35:18] All

[1:35:22] right. Based on the testimony from the applicant, um I do not see any reason um

[1:35:29] not to approve the conditional use. Um this use will not be any more

[1:35:34] detrimental to a similar use in the same district. Um

[1:35:40] the nature of the proposed site is great. Resulting traffic patterns

[1:35:46] won't be impacted in any negative way. Nature of the surrounding area. Extent

[1:35:51] to which proposed use might impair its present and future development.

[1:35:54] Proximity of dwellings, churches, schools, public structures,

[1:35:57] accessibility of the premises to emergency vehicles. Accessibility of

[1:36:00] light and air. Type and location of adequate utilities. Preservation of

[1:36:04] cultural and historic landmarks. Character of the neighborhood. Provision

[1:36:07] of the city's comprehensive master plan. All approve optical standards of a code.

[1:36:11] The intent and purpose of the code. Any matters considered by the general I do

[1:36:15] not see the following conditional use proposed in conflict with any of those

[1:36:22] and um so I am a yes >> also yes

[1:36:28] » also yes

[1:36:32] » right now we're going to go one by one um each variance is that how you would

[1:36:36] like to do it >> I mean the adopt

[1:36:40] » Miss Tilden made the point I think the rationale is the same so if you're

[1:36:44] comfortable voting on all of them at one time and for the reasons stated by

[1:36:47] applicant I can >> draft a resolution.

[1:36:50] » Great. For the reasons stated by the applicant, I propose um that we

[1:36:55] recommend the application for variance of front yard setback, rear yard

[1:36:59] setback, interior sideyard setback, and front yard off street parking. Um I am a

[1:37:04] yes. >> Also a yes.

[1:37:09] Also a yes. >> Yes.

[1:37:12] » All right. Thank you very much. >> Thank you.

[1:37:14] » Thank you.

[1:37:20] » Are you all ready to go off the record? >> We are ready.

[1:37:22] » You're off the record. >> 12:40. I don't vote for the record.

Board of Municipal & Zoning Appeals Hearing; July 22, 2026

Transcript