[19:06] supervisors for Monday, August 31, 2026 into order and have a roll call the old

[19:13] way. >> Right.

[19:16] » Well, I am aware that Bob Anderson mentioned he is not able to come and I

[19:20] see Jamie McCriedy is not here. Am I missing anyone else?

[19:25] » Okay, so we've got 27 of the 29 present. >> Correct. And I don't believe anyone is

[19:30] online, Lance. Lance,

[19:34] » nobody's online. >> Okay. All right. And uh public

[19:39] notification. Are we good? >> Yes.

[19:43] » Dana was going to lead invocation. >> No, no. Public notification.

[19:45] » Public notification. Everything was noticed according to Wisconsin open

[19:48] meeting laws. >> Okay. and the invocation our supervisor

[19:53] Heler.

[19:59] Dear Lord, thank you for bringing us together today in fellowship and

[20:03] service. We ask that you grant us your divine wisdom to make decisions that are

[20:08] not just important for us but for our families, our neighbors, and all the

[20:13] constituents of Baron County. As we discuss the future of data centers in

[20:18] our community, we ask for the spiritual discernment to navigate complex

[20:22] information. Help us weigh the technological and economic choices

[20:27] before us with a spirit of stewardship, ensuring we protect the resources and

[20:32] community you have entrusted us in care. Guide our speech, open our minds, and

[20:39] help us act in a way that honors our responsibilities and glorifies you. We

[20:44] ask this through you, Lord, and your son Jesus Christ. And altogether all God's

[20:49] people said, "Amen." >> Amen. Thanks, Dana.

[20:53] » I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[20:59] republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[21:06] justice for all. [clears throat]

[21:12] » Special matters and announcements. >> Yes. Uh, county board members, you know

[21:15] that there is a special meeting of the West Central Wisconsin Regional Planning

[21:19] Commission on Tuesday the 29th of September. $25 charge to go. Um, you can

[21:25] either please pay that and put it on your time sheet. We'll repay we will pay

[21:29] you when we pay your payroll. Please, if you can if you can attend that, it's

[21:33] going to be on data centers. I believe it's going to be Mr. Okonnell will be

[21:36] there as well. Highly recommend you attend that to learn as much as you can.

[21:40] That's the only thing I have, sir. Okay. Number five, approve the agenda.

[21:46] Motion by Supervisor Olsson, second by Supervisor Cook. Any concerns with the

[21:51] agenda? Seeing none, all in favor indicate by

[21:54] saying I. I. Say no. Motion's carried. I'm going to move off my seat and go and

[22:00] sit next to Pete and Dennis in a minute here. But I just wanted to let you know

[22:05] there is no vote today. It's, you know, the earliest we'll be voting is is

[22:10] probably October board meeting. Today is information only. Um, and and today and

[22:17] then what Jeff just referenced, September 29th down in Oaklair. And what

[22:21] we're trying to do is educate the board of supervisors so we can make the best

[22:26] decision for the residents of Baron County. Yes, the I there's going to be a

[22:31] time when we're going to have to have public comment, but today I just wanted

[22:38] to try to educate uh the board and also the same thing on the 29th. So, um

[22:45] that's it all I've got saying I'm going to move back into the not it's not the

[22:48] galley but >> no to if you have problems registering

[22:51] with that online link with West Central Regional Planning. I know some of you

[22:55] have please just give them a call. Mr. Mr. Chairman, what would be in order now

[22:58] is this would be a member should say, I move that the assembly go into close,

[23:03] excuse me, I move that the assembly go into a committee of the whole to

[23:07] consider uh a data center moratorum. That would be the proper motion. Okay.

[23:14] Motion by supervisor Cook, second by supervisor Bowski.

[23:19] Is there any concerns with doing that? It's why we're here. All in favor of uh

[23:24] doing going into the committee of the whole indicate by saying I. I. Both say

[23:29] no. So we're in the committee of the whole and I'm now out in the assembly

[23:33] and Jeff's running the meeting. Okay. I want to take a little time to talk about

[23:38] what a committee the whole does, what it affords members and why you see color

[23:43] coding in front of you. So first of all, it apologize for that. um it does not

[23:50] limit debate and it also allows supervisors to talk across to one

[23:57] another. That's what a committee the whole does. And so it it doesn't in a

[24:02] normal meeting at a legislative body for example supervisor Bakowski would only

[24:06] be able to speak to an item twice. That is why we have a committee the

[24:11] whole so that you can ask questions multiple times. What I've done is I've

[24:18] split the county board up into red, white, and blue teams. I did that based

[24:22] on some reading I did underneath Robert's rules of order. And what that

[24:26] allows me as chairman to do is I will ask the red committee what do you have

[24:31] for questions? So in this instance, if supervisor Bakowski has a question, he

[24:35] asks a question. Then the red committee members other ones ask questions. Then

[24:40] we go on to the white and the blue allowing people each a representative

[24:44] amount of time to ask questions. I made a point about cross cross referencing in

[24:50] a meeting legislative body you address all things to the chair when you're in

[24:55] committee the whole for example supervisor Patty Anderson could say to

[24:59] supervisor vaugh supervisor vaugh you asked this question could you just

[25:03] please give me a little bit more information so I understand what the

[25:06] basis of that question was then you can give that information and may solicit

[25:10] another question that's the purpose of the committee of the whole so there are

[25:15] some pro prohibited actions. You're not going to make any motions. You can make

[25:19] recommendations to the assembly. You cannot alter or charge the scope. So,

[25:23] we're not going to talk about large-scale solar. We're not going to

[25:26] talk about the Vikings losing have another losing season and and the

[25:29] Packers win in the Super Bowl. We're not talk we're not going to discipline

[25:32] anybody. Um I'd prefer that um you cannot generally use our table anything

[25:39] and I'd ask you to do that. So at this time, so we're on the record and in

[25:44] commit keeping with Robert's rules of order, I'm going to get place the

[25:48] statement of business. The statement of business for the Baron County Board of

[25:52] Supervisors going into a committee the whole on Monday, August 31st, 2026 at 1

[25:58] p.m. is for the Baron County Board of Supervisors to receive information from

[26:04] Mr. Mark O Connell the president and CEO of Wisconsin Counties Association and

[26:09] Rebecca Roker from Atollus Law to discuss the possibility and receive

[26:14] information on a moratorum for data for data mining centers. So with that I am

[26:22] now going to turn over this present turn over the mic to Mr. Okonnell, let him

[26:28] dis make a presentation. When he is done, then we're going to allow

[26:33] questions from the board. And so, please take a piece of paper, write something

[26:37] down, then we'll take questions at that time. So, Mark, with that, I'll let you

[26:41] go. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Um,

[26:44] good to see uh my friends in the Baron County Board once again. Uh, thank you

[26:49] for inviting me to participate in in this meeting. Um,

[26:55] data centers is not just the issue of the day in Baron County or in northwest

[27:02] Wisconsin or in Wisconsin as a whole. It is the issue

[27:06] of the day in the country uh really quite frankly uh most of the

[27:13] civilized world. It is it is the issue um and it's not going away. uh

[27:20] artificial intelligence is not going away and therefore data centers is not

[27:24] going away. So we will be dealing with this issue as a nation and as states and

[27:29] as communities for quite some time to come or at least until some other

[27:34] technology comes along that um supersedes the need for data centers.

[27:40] You have asked me to participate in this meeting to talk about where we are as a

[27:45] state and provide you with some factual information which quite frankly um there

[27:52] is a lot of information available uh out there on data centers.

[27:57] Some of it is factual, some of it is hyperbole, some of it is manufactured,

[28:02] some of it is outright false. Um, but there's a lot of it out there and it's

[28:07] hard to discern exactly what is true and what is not. Um, people have opinions on

[28:13] data centers. There is no right or wrong. People, everyone's entitled to an

[28:17] opinion on a data center. But here today, I'm going to relay to you what

[28:22] what I know of the data center situation in Wisconsin. And then we'll go through

[28:27] some of the pros and cons of data centers. And then we'll talk about uh

[28:32] some of the uh fears and critiques of data centers and what which ones are

[28:38] legitimate. Uh and I've categorized whether some of the fears are truly

[28:43] legitimate, moderately legitimate or really not legitimate at all. And then

[28:49] you need to do what you think is best for Baron County. And again, there is no

[28:53] right or wrong. Um I think let me start off with with this uh as we walk through

[28:59] this conversation um part of what we need to keep in mind

[29:06] in my opinion as your staff person for multiple decades is what our role is as

[29:13] local government policy makers and I say that not just as county board but our

[29:18] city town and village friends as well. Uh our our role our responsibility is to

[29:24] create a framework and a structure of laws, rules, regulations, ordinances

[29:32] such that our citizens and our businesses can conduct their affairs

[29:37] with a sense of reliability and and trust that we are moving in a direction

[29:43] that an issue has been well um thought out and reasoned and that they can

[29:49] conduct their affairs if they abide by the laws, rules, and regulations that

[29:54] have been uh well thought out by a governing body. Uh we might even toss in

[30:00] the state in that regard. Now, the state has not passed laws on data centers yet.

[30:06] Uh many counties have, most counties, almost all counties have not passed laws

[30:11] on data centers. Um, but our our role as local government officials is to create

[30:17] that structure and framework, not necessarily to pick and choose

[30:23] winners. And and I I I I lay the I want to lay a a a base sort of a a base

[30:30] premise on this. Um, we set the boundaries, but we don't

[30:37] determine uh who can win or lose within those boundaries. for example,

[30:44] uh it's really not our role to say we're going to allow uh large structures to

[30:51] occur like warehouses to occur in a particular geographic area. We're going

[30:56] to allow CVS, but we're not going to allow Walgreens. That would be picking a

[31:00] winner and loser. We're going to allow Walmart, but we're not going to allow

[31:04] Amazon. That would be picking winners and losers. If both abide by the laws,

[31:09] rules and regulations that we have set up in our structure and framework, then

[31:13] they should be able to conduct business if they abide by those laws, rules, and

[31:18] regulations. And if they do not, then they need to abide by the legal system.

[31:22] The legal system will will play its role. And there may be penalties,

[31:27] perhaps suspension of activity, possibly even up to termination of that activity,

[31:31] whether that's a business or an individual citizen if they violate the

[31:35] rules of society. as you as a county, city, town, village or state have so

[31:40] determined. That's but that's our role. The reason we have it that way is

[31:45] because the citizens and our businesses, our communities need some sense of

[31:50] reliability that we are not going to shift from one end of the spectrum to

[31:55] the other based on the whims of an individ of of an individual body. Let me

[32:01] give you an example. Uh and it will be a ludicrous example.

[32:07] If if if we if we made public policy based on our whims of picking winners

[32:15] and losers and what we what we felt, for example, and let's use data centers, I

[32:20] guess, because it's the issue of the day as an example. We really did we if we

[32:24] didn't really know what data centers what we what we liked or disliked about

[32:29] them, but we had this uh inner feeling that we didn't like them. So, we're

[32:35] opposed to them even though we maybe didn't necessarily know why. And we took

[32:39] action to say no data centers. Well, we'd be picking a winner and a loser

[32:44] because we're saying other large operations who might abide by laws,

[32:48] rules, and regulations are okay, but this data center operation who might be

[32:52] abiding by the same laws is not okay based on our feelings.

[32:58] But what would happen if the next governing body, county board, city

[33:04] council, village, town, whoever, if that county board or city council or village

[33:09] said, you know, I like um I like a lot of older people in my community. Really

[33:14] don't like children. We're going to we're going to ban child care centers.

[33:19] Well, that's ludicrous and ridiculous and really quite I mean just super

[33:26] ridiculous. But that would be picking a winner and a

[33:30] loser. Completely ridiculous. But we can't have that. It would be that that's

[33:36] unreliable to the citizens to our businesses. We'd be creating a a

[33:40] scenario where the county board or city council or village council after that

[33:43] would say, "We're going to fix that." And yet, and then we'd have a society

[33:47] where we'd move from one end of the spectrum to the other constantly every

[33:51] time there's an election. And quite frankly, the elections would occur

[33:54] because there'd be recalls all the time. We had that a few years ago up in the

[33:59] eastern part of the state on a few other issues that occurred, but it's it's not

[34:04] it's not good for our democracy to have moving from one end of the spectrum to

[34:08] the other yet. That's what it would that's what would occur. So based on

[34:12] that we need to have well reasoned public policy based on facts based on

[34:19] what the issue what the issues really are before the body and the governing

[34:24] body needs to evaluate and assess the real issues you may be for or against a

[34:32] particular policy. It is perfectly fine to be against data centers. There's

[34:38] nothing wrong with that. But be against what the what the actual issue is. Not

[34:44] necessarily the data center, but if you're against the the the noise

[34:50] pollution, if you're against uh the the non-disclosure agreements that are

[34:55] required, I mean, what is it exactly you would be against? Not just the words

[35:01] data center, and we'll walk through some of this. So, where where are we today?

[35:06] Well, um on the hypers scale, that's a nice word for really large uh data

[35:11] center, high large scale operations, we have six in the state which are

[35:16] upwards of $30 billion uh in size and there's no real good way to determine or

[35:23] to describe the size of the data center except basically about basically how

[35:28] much it's like not really number of units uh or how much how many much

[35:33] megawatts of of power they've been using, but really the value of the of

[35:37] the the operation but the these six operations are in excess of 30 billion.

[35:42] There have been five there are five that are currently in development not just

[35:46] contemplated but in development and there are four that were uh estimated at

[35:52] about 25 billion that were um that were defeated. uh they were proposed, they

[35:59] were discussed, they were debated and a governing body uh either defeated the

[36:05] proposal or the entity itself withdrew after uh for any number of reasons

[36:11] mostly public sentiment. So let's walk through um the pros and

[36:17] cons of a data center. Uh and I'll I'll let me just walk through these and you

[36:23] may have questions and I'd encourage you to ask all you like. I may not have all

[36:27] the answers to all of your questions. Uh I'm not an expert in data centers. Uh

[36:31] but I've talked uh with the utility industry. I've talked with the data

[36:36] center folks. I've talked with opponents of data centers. Uh and I've talked with

[36:40] many citizens on the issue. So I have some knowledge of this issue, but it

[36:44] it's not my expertise. All right. So some of the pros. Well, uh

[36:48] here's what some of the some folks would say the pros are. Uh, one of the pros is

[36:54] that it's a large capital investment. Wisconsin's major projects range from

[36:59] roughly a billion uh to 15 billion. The billion was the Meta Center in Beaver

[37:04] Dam. The 15 billion was the Vantage uh operation Port Washington. Uh there are

[37:10] seven projects uh announced in 2025 that total roughly 57 billion. That's a

[37:16] combination of the six that are currently in operation and then the five

[37:20] that have been uh that are in development. A second uh pro is

[37:25] construction employment. Um the Mount Pleasant operation employed nearly

[37:30] 10,000 construction workers over approximately a 2-year period. uh was

[37:36] the um in total the the the ones currently in

[37:41] operation are expected to employ roughly 4,000 plus construction jobs mostly

[37:46] union I guess that's in the Port Washington operation so a lot of union

[37:50] labor but not entirely uh that is what's many people would say is a is a is a pro

[37:57] uh another another pro that people assess to data centers is that uh it's

[38:02] the creation of permanent jobs though modest relative to uh investment.

[38:08] Microsoft's uh contemplated Mount Pleasant building employs about 300 or

[38:13] 550 full-time employees. Meta's Beaver Dam will employ roughly a 100. Uh there

[38:18] is a think tank called Brookings and roughly they say roughly it's 100

[38:24] permanent jobs per large-scale facility. That is a very rough estimate because

[38:30] large scale has lots of different meanings. You can have very large large

[38:34] scale or relatively small large scale but roughly 100 permanent jobs per large

[38:40] scale facility. Another pro uh utility and grid

[38:44] infrastructure is paid for by the developer not the county or other uh

[38:50] entities or or uh rateayers. Uh Meta is funding nearly 200 million in the

[38:57] Alliant Energy substation transmission upgrades for Beaver Dam. Um the PSC's uh

[39:03] latest tariff order requires very large customers to cover 100% of dedicated

[39:10] generation and grid costs. And I'll get into that in just a little bit. Another

[39:15] pro, property and utility tax uh base growth.

[39:20] I say this I want to repeat that property and tax base growth not um

[39:26] there there are some there's a negative to the to the tax issue as well and that

[39:30] is uh sales and use tax exemption we'll get to that in a second but the property

[39:34] and utility tax base growth uh plus negotiated community benefits in some

[39:39] deals not all deals but some deals meta's 10year 15 uh billion dollar $15

[39:46] million contribution to uh Alliance low-income energy assistance

[39:50] was one example. Uh DeForest, that's a failed example that that did not go

[39:55] through. The forest deal included a um guaranteed tax revenue, uh some river

[40:03] improvements and affordable housing commitments. That did not happen. It was

[40:07] eventually turned down by the DeForest city council, but that include that deal

[40:12] would have included those things. Another pro leverage for county govern

[40:17] for local government uh because these are high value high-profile projects.

[40:22] Communities that engage early have negotiating power on sighting, buffers,

[40:28] water protection, and um benefit sharing before any permit is granted. After the

[40:35] permit is granted, your negotiating and leverage is lessened. Generally

[40:41] speaking, not always, but generally. All right, let's go to the cons for a

[40:45] moment. The downside of a data center. Uh what is often mentioned, electricity

[40:52] cost shift, risk to residential and small business rate payers. This was um

[40:58] the central issue in the Wii Energy's rate case. And I'm going to that that is

[41:02] listed as a as a con, but I'm going to get to how that was addressed here

[41:06] momentarily. Another downside, state uh sales and use tax exemption. It

[41:12] reduces state revenue. The projected is roughly 1.5 billion uh in foregone

[41:19] construction and about 370 million per year in ongoing statewide uh state and

[41:26] uh sales and use tax. Now, this is a little bit debatable because um some

[41:32] economists would say if you'd never built the data center, you wouldn't have

[41:36] had the sales and use tax anyway. So, did you really lose it? Well, there's

[41:42] there's no right or wrong to that debate, but uh roughly $370 million lost

[41:47] because we're not applying the sales and use tax. Another uh negative

[41:53] uh water use and private well contamination risk. Significant driver

[41:58] of the opposition uh elsewhere in the state has been this

[42:02] issue. Some developers like Meta have adopted dry cooling design specifically

[42:08] to minimize this. So, the actual risk varies a great deal by project design.

[42:14] And we'll talk a little bit about this in just a few minutes. Another downside

[42:17] negative, noise, dust, and light pollution. Residents near Microsoft's uh

[42:23] fall uh fall water, the Mount Pleasant project um filed a class action lawsuit

[42:30] in July of 2026 over noise and dust. Um, noise is commonly tied to diesel backup

[42:37] generators and cooling equipment and is a legitimate item for sighting and

[42:41] buffer conditions. So, that that was definitely an issue. Another downside, a

[42:46] negative, uh, farmland and open space conversion. Uh, the proposed and

[42:52] rejected projects elsewhere in the state have uh, looked at roughly 320 to over

[42:58] 1,600 acres of farmland being used per data center site.

[43:04] Uh, another negative, modest permanent job counts. We talked about roughly 100

[43:10] permanent jobs per data center. What what some people say is a negative to to

[43:15] data centers. It's they they people would say only modest permanent job

[43:19] counts relative to the scale and investment and infrastructure

[43:24] commitment. It's a fair point to weigh, but honestly, um it's again when you

[43:29] look at a uh construction jobs and tax base, um I'm not really sure that that's

[43:35] much of a con. Another uh negative uh process and trust risk. All right, this

[43:42] is probably the biggest negative when it comes to u cons of a data center. uh the

[43:49] non-disclosure agreements that have been the single it's been the single biggest

[43:53] driver of of public backlash statewide independent of what communities

[43:58] ultimately decided about the projects themselves the non-disclosure agreements

[44:02] have been a sticking point almost everywhere that they that the that

[44:06] they've been in place um and then lastly a con no statewide

[44:12] legislative framework has has been put in place as of yet as of mid 2026 the

[44:17] legislature has not passed any data center specific uh sighting water or NDA

[44:23] legislation. Uh I'm not sure we're going to get there depending upon what the

[44:28] what happens with the elections, but I would not be looking for any major

[44:32] action um uniform action uh that's imminent.

[44:39] Okay. So with that brief sort of procon uh let's talk about the criticisms of

[44:47] data centers and I I I want to talk about whether these are well doumented

[44:52] criticisms uh and whether they're legitimate or

[44:55] not. So, uh, the number one criticism, the non-disclosure agreement, this is

[45:02] this has this this secrecy issue, uh, this is definitely legitimate as a

[45:08] process complaint independent of what you think of data centers themselves.

[45:12] It's a governance criticism. It's not really a crit criticism of the data

[45:16] center itself. It's a criticism of the governance. Um

[45:22] it's uh this this issue is largely self-inflicted by the governing bodies

[45:28] and the data center um hierarchy. Uh they have voluntarily entered into these

[45:34] non-disclosures. Rebecca may speak to this issue. I'm not really sure even

[45:38] sure that the non-disclosure can be enforced uh by for a local unit of

[45:43] government, but none nonetheless that has been a major issue when it comes to

[45:47] uh criticism of data centers. So, it's that's definitely a legitimate criticism

[45:52] and it's it comes up all the time. Another uh criticism critique uh

[45:58] foregone tax revenue via the sales tax exemption. We talked about it earlier.

[46:03] This is u I'm not really sure that this is a legitimate critique. Um I wouldn't

[46:09] put this in a strong critique category because you could argue this either way.

[46:14] We're foregoing uh 370 roughly speaking of the current data centers roughly

[46:20] sales and use tax revenue as a state and locals $370 million a year. Um but we

[46:26] wouldn't have had we wouldn't have that if there were no data centers. So the

[46:30] fact that we're having data centers uh and we give the the exemption means

[46:35] we're not getting it yet. If we have the data centers, we are going to get the uh

[46:41] property tax base and income tax for those that are employed, income tax for

[46:47] all of the construction workers. So there is some economic benefit there.

[46:51] You can have all kinds of economic models that will tell you tell you

[46:53] there's a there's a net positive to that. But we are foregoing that sales

[46:58] and use tax uh during the con during the

[47:02] construction. That that is definitely true. Is this a legitimate critique?

[47:08] It's, uh, technically, factually legitimate, but I wouldn't put a lot of

[47:12] weight in it. Um, so, uh, moderately legitimate. Let's

[47:19] go through a couple of those. Uh, permanent job counts relative to

[47:25] investment. Okay, so Brookings says roughly a 100 jobs per largecale data

[47:33] center. Um, as we said, Mount Pleasant has is

[47:37] employing 550. U Beaver Dam is roughly 100. Is it legitimate? Is that a

[47:44] legitimate criticism? Um, I guess technically

[47:49] I suppose you could say yes. But in comparison to other economic development

[47:54] ventures, I'm not sure it really holds a lot of water. So, if we're going to

[47:59] criticize the existence of a data center based on permanent jobs,

[48:04] would we not also have to criticize uh I guess baseball diamonds and soccer

[48:10] fields taking up a lot of land but not a lot of employees or storage units or uh

[48:17] I mean any number of other employee employers or operations that have large

[48:22] land use but not a lot of employees. So that is one where it sort of falls in

[48:29] the category of I don't like data centers so I'm going to dream up any way

[48:33] I can to criticize it. So I'm not sure that's that's much of a legitimate uh uh

[48:39] issue. Another critique uh water use. Um this is absolutely a legitimate issue uh

[48:46] for the evaporate evaporative cooling designs but increasingly it is greatly

[48:55] overstated as a blanket criticism because several of the Wisconsin

[48:59] projects for example Meta's Beaver Dam Microsoft's um uh stated design goals um

[49:06] they're using dry cooling or closed loop systems. So this is one where depending

[49:12] upon the design, it could absolutely be a legitimate criticism of a data center.

[49:18] But if you're using a dry cooling or a closed loop, um not so much not so much

[49:24] of a legitimate criticism. You need to we would need to know what what type of

[49:28] a uh system is being proposed for the cooling of the of the of the operations

[49:35] within the data center. Um, so that's that that could be a legitimate uh

[49:40] criticism or it could simply be a a straw man type criticism.

[49:46] Uh, noise and light pollution. Uh, this is u this is a legitimate

[49:52] criticism. Um, but it's absolutely manageable. So this has been a criticism

[49:59] in other operations. However, uh for example, in one of the

[50:04] in one of the uh operations, uh I think it was the uh Mount Pleasant one when

[50:10] this was raised, uh they engaged in barriers or setbacks and so you could

[50:16] mitigate the noise and light pollution issue during construction and or

[50:21] thereafter. So it this is definitely a legitimate criticism, but it's also one

[50:26] that by design or modified design can be addressed. So it's legitimate

[50:33] documented, but it's also flexible. Um, okay. The cost the another criticism

[50:40] cost shift to taxpayers. Okay, we'll spend just a little just a few minutes

[50:44] on this because this initially this was one of the biggest criticisms of the

[50:48] data centers. data centers are going to come into my

[50:52] community. They're going to use a lot of power. They're going to build power

[50:55] plants, trans transmission lines. They're going to use a lot of power and

[50:59] I as as a small business or a resident am going to have going to be stuck with

[51:04] a higher bill. Well, in March of 2000, uh the answer to that is not that's not

[51:10] correct. In March of 2025, uh, we energies asked state regulators, the

[51:16] public service commission for permission to create a special electric rate. It

[51:22] was called very large customer tariff. In other words, very large customer rate

[51:27] for large power users like data centers. The utility's original plan would have

[51:32] had data centers pay for 75% of the cost of a new power plant built

[51:39] to serve uh built to serve the data centers and regular customers,

[51:44] households and small businesses would cover the other 25% plus the ongoing

[51:50] fuel costs. That was the proposal that was submitted to the PSC. That was in

[51:55] March of 25. In April of 26, about a year later, the public service

[52:01] commission announced a decision. They said in plain English, they said if

[52:07] a data center wants power, the data center is going to pay for it. In other

[52:12] in other words, here are the points. Data centers, the 7525, they threw it

[52:17] out. data centers have to pay for 100% of the cost of the power um and

[52:24] infrastructure built for the data center. It locked the data centers into

[52:29] a 15-year contract. So, a data center could not come in, get uh power for a

[52:35] few years and then leave. They were committed for 15 years of that 100%

[52:41] paying for 100% of that cost. It lowered the size of the threshold for

[52:46] which the comp for which companies had this rule applied to it. It it was 500

[52:51] megawatt it went down to 100 megawatt. So any any entity using a 100 megawatt

[52:58] or higher this rule applied to it. So 100 megawatts or more you have to pay

[53:04] for a 100% of the infrastructure and the power that you're going to use to to run

[53:10] your operation. and it required the utility to report

[53:14] back to the public service commission on a regular basis. So, one of the one of

[53:19] the biggest criticisms of the data centers, they're going to come in, use a

[53:23] lot of power, and others are going to have to pay for it. The public service

[53:27] commission told Wei Energies, no. Now, that applies to Wii Energies. Uh I

[53:32] suspect that there will be there's an appeal of that. I'm I'm not We'll see

[53:36] where that appeal goes. I would be surprised if it went anywhere, but we'll

[53:40] see. Um I would suspect that there will be uh similar decisions made uh in

[53:47] regard to other um other uh ventures in the data center

[53:53] world. Another critique. Oh >> thank you.

[53:58] » We're almost done and then we then we can we're we're almost done. Farmland uh

[54:02] open space loss. Um this is uh definitely a real it's this is

[54:08] definitely real. It's real in terms of acreage. I, as I said earlier, 300

[54:13] to,600 is roughly what what's been utilized in the uh data centers.

[54:19] definitely a legitimate issue. But uh the use of 300 to,600 acres for a data

[54:25] center that is that's it's comparable or less to many other

[54:33] operations that we use uh for other types of oper for other types of

[54:37] ventures might be a housing development or any number of other things. So

[54:41] definitely a criticism, definitely real. Um but in comparison to others, a body

[54:47] would have to evaluate that. And then um getting right getting toward the end

[54:52] here, uh data centers are increasingly bad for the local economies. That is a

[54:57] criticism we've heard quite a bit. Uh the polling that you sometimes hear um

[55:03] cited shows public skepticism, but there's a sentiment, but that's a

[55:08] sentiment finding, not an economic one. It doesn't establish the underlying uh

[55:14] that the underlying deals are bad, only that they're unpopular. Now, that those

[55:19] are two different things. It might be it doesn't mean they might be unpopular. It

[55:24] doesn't mean that it's bad. It could be bad. could be unpopular and bad. Uh but

[55:29] it could be good and unpopular. So you have to evaluate that. Uh unpopularity

[55:35] and illegitimacy are not the same thing. They're they're different. That's part

[55:40] of what our responsibility is as local government officials, city, town,

[55:45] village, county. Um we're not necessarily here to make the popular

[55:50] choice, but a well-reasoned choice. and having a data center may not be a good

[55:55] choice in Baron County or northwest Wisconsin or anywhere may not be a good

[56:01] choice but then again it may you you have to decide that and there are many

[56:06] more many considerations that you have to put into the mixing bowl before you

[56:09] make a before you make a decision. Um

[56:15] let's see um I guess I'll I'll I'll end there and

[56:20] then we can open it up to questions. Um, and uh, we'll see where the conversation

[56:25] takes us. >> Yes. Yeah.

[56:28] » So, as I said, I split you up in red, white, and blue. So, red team, you're

[56:32] on. First question. Supervisor Cook. >> Um,

[56:36] » please use your mic. Please use your mic, everyone.

[56:38] » Um, very nice job. I I do I am on a electrical co-op board. uh in Von County

[56:46] and the communities we serve, when the Sand plants came in, they had to pay for

[56:50] all of their infrastructure 100% upfront. So when they left um their

[56:56] substations, well actually our substations, they they paid for those.

[57:00] So I think of the 24 co-ops at least that Dairine has, that would probably be

[57:06] something that you would see. Um the other thing that um you can put into a

[57:12] concern which is real is that uh data centers don't help our reliability issue

[57:18] in that when it comes to renewables um data centers run 247 unlike Bitcoin

[57:25] and some other uh types of u data um issues. These these plants are required

[57:32] to run 247. They do not shut down. So um from a reliability standpoint um our

[57:39] base load which is our coal nuclear uh gas generation uh that's what we have.

[57:45] So all the solar fields wind farms that we put up um do not help alleviate that

[57:51] issue which is a real issue um moving forward. But um no u I thought it was a

[57:59] good uh a good presentation. The one thing I would like in terms of scale of

[58:03] the six that we do have uh in the state, I know you talked about putting it in

[58:07] billions. Of those six, what is their footprint in acres? Do we know that?

[58:13] » Uh let me see here. Um

[58:23] uh I don't have the acreage for the footprint. I have some of the square

[58:27] footage for the facility, but I can let me see if I can find that and I'll get

[58:32] it to the body >> again. And to put it in perspective,

[58:34] when we take a look at some of the renewables, I mean, everyone talks about

[58:37] how much farmland or in terms of open spaces actually knowing that uh just in

[58:42] terms of perspective. >> Yeah, very good point.

[58:44] » Thank you. >> I'll see I'll see if I can find that. Um

[58:48] I on the six that are current I know I can find it on the on the ones that are

[58:54] being contemplated they're guarded with the information but on the six I can

[58:58] find for sure. >> Thank you.

[58:59] » Excellent red team. Other questions? Supervisor Anderson?

[59:03] » Yes. This might be rather naive on my part but why do we need a data center?

[59:10] Uh well uh artificial intelligence is uh uses um

[59:16] enor enormous computing power and it runs through data centers and now um

[59:24] if you're using Google you really you'd have to you'd have to purposely not use

[59:29] uh artificial intelligence to use Google uh which is using a data center. So when

[59:35] you do a Google search, it's running through a data center. Uh and these data

[59:39] centers are going to be built somewhere, Russia, China, India, or the United

[59:46] States. The United States government has taken the position that if they're going

[59:50] to be built somewhere, they would rather have them built within [clears throat]

[59:52] the borders of the United States or North America rather than u overseas.

[59:59] So, uh, if we did not have data centers, um, well, I guess it there's not really

[1:00:05] there's not much reason to talk about that because it's they're going to

[1:00:08] happen, Patty. Uh, and it is it's pure computing power. Um, the society society

[1:00:14] is moving very rapidly, whether it's online medical health, which is, uh,

[1:00:20] moving incredibly rapidly, whether it's just

[1:00:24] young people today making their Tik Toks. I mean it's it's everything. It's

[1:00:29] uh but artificial intelligence is driving a lot of it.

[1:00:32] » And so the purpose is what do for what reason do we save this data?

[1:00:37] » Do we save it? >> Why why is it there?

[1:00:39] » Oh, it's well there's there's uh saving the data. It's not really

[1:00:45] saving the data. It's the computing power of searching um and communicating

[1:00:51] with all other with with I guess the metaverse.

[1:00:57] uh of where all the data is. So these are not this isn't um an area where a

[1:01:03] lot of data is stored so that you do a search and it goes and looks for it's

[1:01:08] not like it's a giant encyclopedia where you go to search for it. That's not what

[1:01:11] that is. It's not like a a cloud storage is this is um massive rapid uh search

[1:01:21] searching of millions of

[1:01:26] uh high-powered chips talking to each other.

[1:01:30] » Okay, so let's we just used AI to answer Supervisor Cook's question. Here they

[1:01:35] are. the Vantage data center in Port Washington 2.5 million square feet

[1:01:40] across four singlestory buildings. So Mike, so let's go back. You know

[1:01:45] everybody on this, you know that the county policy is we use the W extension

[1:01:49] model of AI. We also site our sources. So this came from the Wisconsin property

[1:01:56] map. So I asked this question, what is the total square footage of the hyper

[1:01:59] data centers located in Wisconsin? The Wisconsin property map an answer

[1:02:04] answered my question this way. The Vantage data centers Port Washington 2.5

[1:02:10] million square feet across four singlestory buildings.

[1:02:14] Need to slide down. Just give me just a second.

[1:02:18] I >> think you wanted acreage, Jeff.

[1:02:20] » Oh, you wanted acreage. Can you convert square feet to acorage, Randy? I thought

[1:02:24] you could you >> by 43,560

[1:02:27] and they're all single floors. I can I can get that.

[1:02:29] » Okay. [laughter] So, Microsoft Fairwater campus mount.

[1:02:32] » You have you have the guy right there. >> Right. Exactly. I That's 1.2 million

[1:02:38] square feet across three massive buildings. Microsoft campus Kenosha, 1

[1:02:43] million square feet across four 250,000 square foot buildings. And finally, the

[1:02:49] Meta Campus at Beaver Dam, 700,000 square feet. It's 2.7 3.7 You have 4.2

[1:02:57] two million square feet. Randy, >> I'll tell you how many acres.

[1:03:02] » Okay, that's okay. So, red team, you're you're still back. So, uh that would end

[1:03:09] with supervisor Gors would be our last member of the red team. Is there another

[1:03:12] question from this group before supervisor efforts?

[1:03:17] » Um well, the first question would be that was just the building space, not

[1:03:22] the campus, >> right?

[1:03:24] » Okay. So, that's all right. >> It would be larger than that. Yeah.

[1:03:27] » Um, going with the electricity and the power generation. Um, I'm just wondering

[1:03:34] about and maybe Supervisor Cook can answer this when he's done doing his

[1:03:39] math with the acreage. >> Well, actually, I'm just going to ask

[1:03:42] Chad how many acres. He can do the math. Go [laughter] ahead.

[1:03:46] » Um, so

[1:03:49] I mean I you hear different things. It's going to be terrible on the energy. It's

[1:03:53] going to Oh, they'll pay for it. Um but the the the average load, you know, if

[1:04:00] we get um several of these in the area or one of these in the area, Dairland

[1:04:05] Power, um do they have the capacity for that? I

[1:04:10] mean there's, you know, to add to that, I the reason I'm asking is the last two

[1:04:16] years there's been issues with Dairland Power um being down and then or part of

[1:04:23] their generation being down for two separate reasons. And then we had to

[1:04:30] absorb in our bills buying it from other areas and bringing the power in. And in

[1:04:37] the middle of winter, if you do that, it's way more expensive. So, how

[1:04:42] [laughter] how I don't know if I'm explaining it,

[1:04:45] okay, but how much closer is that margin where if we get a really cold blizzard

[1:04:52] for a couple of weeks or we get 100 degrees for a couple weeks, how much

[1:04:57] closer does it put us to having to do that and try to find power elsewhere to

[1:05:02] and at a higher cost? I would definitely put that into the very legitimate

[1:05:07] question category. Uh and it's it's you phrased it very well. So the the issue

[1:05:12] and there's a in our state we have separated power generation from uh grid

[1:05:18] delivery. So um in our state well we have a couple different mostly it's

[1:05:23] American transmission company uh with the grid system and then generators of

[1:05:29] power uh separately. Now there's it's not entirely that way but it's mostly

[1:05:34] that way. Um so what the PSC did in their order is essentially say um that

[1:05:43] the u data center is responsible for the buildout of the infrastructure to to and

[1:05:51] and cost to utilize and uh have the power delivered to the data center. Now,

[1:05:58] that's in our plain English. It's kind of mushy

[1:06:02] language. So, you'd want to be you would want to have a conversation. If you were

[1:06:06] if you were serious about uh having a data center in your area, you'd

[1:06:10] certainly want to have that conversation about what does that mean? How do what

[1:06:14] does the public service commission order mean? And how how assured can we be in

[1:06:19] our community whatever community is being contemplated that we are not going

[1:06:23] to be uh in a position where we have to get power uh and have a potential grid

[1:06:29] issue. So that might be an ATC question. It might be a local electric co-op

[1:06:34] question. I'm not sure what grid system they might be using, but we'd want to

[1:06:37] ask that question most assuredly. >> Yeah,

[1:06:42] » if I can. Um you you touched on it. the problem. Yeah. So all these data

[1:06:47] centers, my understanding is they have to have their own backup generation

[1:06:52] because if if things happen and we go into where everyone has to buy peak

[1:06:56] rates. So her husband, full disclosure, is on Baron Electric Board with me. Uh

[1:07:01] we did have an incident where we had a coal generation plant go down. It was

[1:07:04] down for two and a half weeks. Uh and we had to buy off the open market, which we

[1:07:08] do anyway. All electricity that's generated, even if you have a solar

[1:07:11] panel um that generates more than you can use, gets put on the grid and the

[1:07:15] co-ops uh Durland Power has to buy that back and sell it to the co-ops. Uh part

[1:07:21] of the cons is when these peak loads happen, which uh you guys right now are

[1:07:26] getting 11 cents, 13 cents a kilowatt charge. Well, when those peak loads

[1:07:31] happen, that 11 cents can turn into $111 like that. So data centers have their

[1:07:37] own most data centers I think all have backup generation. That's the noise

[1:07:42] issue. Um because those are typically either big diesel engines or their jet

[1:07:49] turbine engines and they make noise. >> Okay. Red team. Anyone else? That ends

[1:07:57] at supervisor. >> I have supervisor Gors. Go ahead.

[1:08:00] » More of a comment than anything. Uh, I guess I'm I'm uh I'm a farmer at heart,

[1:08:07] so I'm big time concerned here with uh the amount of uh crop land and stuff

[1:08:14] like that. It's being eaten up by these solar panels and by these data centers

[1:08:18] and stuff like that there. And they and like I said, what they call them when

[1:08:23] they sat there and they came out with these uh solar panels, they said, "Well,

[1:08:26] it's only going to be 1.6% of the crop land in Baron County." Well, if you sit

[1:08:32] there and you go 1.6% on one project and 1.6% on another and 2, all of a sudden

[1:08:39] we're we've lost uh 10% of our crop land. And uh and I also like to know if

[1:08:46] we would sit there and could evaluate the land there and maybe go use uh put

[1:08:52] some of these centers or whatever in uh marginal land or land that essentially

[1:09:00] waste land because I mean they sit there and they they want to go and put it like

[1:09:06] for instance the what they were talking in Monomony they were sitting there

[1:09:09] talking well I was looking at watching a TV

[1:09:14] there. Uh it was beautiful crop flat crop land. Well, I know that what they

[1:09:20] call they don't want to sit there and use all the dog on uh so much money on

[1:09:26] on excavating. Well, of course, so they're going to come in with the

[1:09:30] flattest piece of property that they can find and and put put it on just so they

[1:09:35] can go out there and just start building instead of doing the excavating and

[1:09:39] stuff like that. That's that's just very disheartening for me.

[1:09:44] » Well, I I think this might fall under the um leverage for a local community.

[1:09:49] Um I mean that that specific comment on the use of farmland. While

[1:09:55] [clears throat] I think you make a very good point 1.6 1.6 1.6 pretty soon 10%

[1:10:02] of our land is gone or not not available for farmland. Uh so it adds up quick. It

[1:10:09] may seem sound small at first but it adds up quick. Um but the fact that uh

[1:10:16] there is a public backlash whether it's whether

[1:10:21] it's based on fact or based on feeling there is a public backlash. So it's

[1:10:26] being it's difficult in many cases to site a data center. So if a community um

[1:10:34] was interested in uh a data center and were was going to engage in

[1:10:40] conversations um and if I were the data center and you

[1:10:45] said to me uh I'm willing to have a conversation with you but I'd like you

[1:10:49] like you to look at marginal land as opposed to farmland. Um, if I have that

[1:10:54] conversation with one community and I have five other communities saying I

[1:10:59] don't like you, uh, I'm going to go to the com to the community that says, uh,

[1:11:04] let's have a conversation about marginal land. I'd be very open to that given the

[1:11:09] current, I guess, landscape that we're that we're involved in. So, I think you

[1:11:14] have an opportunity if that's what you'd like to do. You may you may also say, I

[1:11:18] don't even want it on marginal land. That's up that's up to the the community

[1:11:22] itself. But you make a very good point and uh in a in a in a testy environment

[1:11:28] think you've got you hold some cards to say we'd rather have it on marginal land

[1:11:32] than farmland. >> I just

[1:11:37] All right. I'm going to go on now to the white team. That'd be supervisor Heler,

[1:11:42] Jenkins, Krug, Klick, Langman, McCreaty, Miller, Mon, and Nelson. Do you have any

[1:11:46] questions? Supervisor Heler. >> [clears throat]

[1:11:50] » when we're uh looking at this, we're we're talking about using the data

[1:11:54] centers for general search and for looking for things, but uh are the data

[1:11:59] centers not also integral to data security and making sure that our data

[1:12:04] is going to be uh held within the bounds of the United States and not being

[1:12:10] shipped out overseas where we don't have control over our own data.

[1:12:14] » It's an excellent point. I mean, the answer I gave Patty was the pop culture

[1:12:18] answer. Uh but there is so much more to data centers and that's why um

[1:12:24] our federal government has made it relatively clear that um

[1:12:30] not only that data centers are going to exist but uh since they are going to

[1:12:36] exist uh the choice of their existence being in a foreign land that may not be

[1:12:44] friendly to the United States or may not be friendly to the United states in the

[1:12:48] future is not uh desirable, but rather uh having them within the borders of the

[1:12:55] United States or at least in within the borders of an ally of the United States

[1:13:00] uh is much much preferable due in part to um a whole host of things, but

[1:13:06] national security being one of them, uh data security being another, uh any

[1:13:12] number of any number of national interests make an excellent point, sir.

[1:13:17] Other questions from the white team. >> I was wondering um what is the closest

[1:13:23] proximity that family homes could be built within or around that data center

[1:13:29] uh so they have an environment that is safe and quiet enough?

[1:13:33] » That's a very good question. Uh and it it I'm sorry it's a very good question.

[1:13:37] It it really depends on the design. Um there some people have indicated they

[1:13:44] could hear the data center from quite some distance away. Uh I have been at a

[1:13:49] at data center sites that have been operational. Uh it I had to get within

[1:13:54] 20 ft to hear anything. So that was a design issue. So it it will it will

[1:14:00] definitely depend on on the design. Um and then on the then again on the water

[1:14:06] when you say safe if if you're on a let's say a well uh it would depend on

[1:14:10] what kind of water usage they are using. Is it a closed loop system or a dry

[1:14:15] cooling system no issues at all. If it is on a municipal system again no issues

[1:14:20] at all uh or you know very likely no issues at all. I guess you can say you

[1:14:24] shouldn't say never no issues but highly likely no issues. Uh so it would all

[1:14:29] depend on on the design. Now most of these data centers are I shouldn't we

[1:14:35] don't have a lot to choose from but um around the country when you look at

[1:14:40] where data centers have been located they they are not necessarily in

[1:14:46] residential areas. They are in industrial park areas or out by

[1:14:52] themselves unfortunately sometimes on very nice

[1:14:56] farmland. Um but they're not they're not planted in the in the middle of

[1:15:00] residential areas. Um now sometimes now now sometimes they're

[1:15:06] relatively are relatively close to some residences. For example, in Lowden

[1:15:09] County, Virginia, perhaps the data center capital of the of the world, they

[1:15:14] have in their one single county, I think the number was I think it's 252 data

[1:15:21] centers in Lowden County, Virginia. They've gone 100% in on data centers.

[1:15:26] Um, I I haven't been there, but I'm guessing there's probably some

[1:15:31] residences close to a data center there. But, uh, how close can you get? Depends

[1:15:35] on the design. >> They aren't making land anymore.

[1:15:38] » They're not making any more land. That's true.

[1:15:40] » Our residences keep spreading out. Uh, and that's why I'm be a little

[1:15:45] concerned. >> That's weather.

[1:15:47] » No more land is being made. >> Difference on the weather conditions,

[1:15:50] too. >> Yes. It would depend on weather and wind

[1:15:53] and what kind of barriers might be put up. That's true. And that again, that

[1:15:57] would be something if if it was if it were me and I was in

[1:16:01] a serious conversation, uh I would be wanting to talk about design and uh

[1:16:07] sound or sight barriers. If that's what you were interested in, I'd want to talk

[1:16:11] about that. And in the current landscape, you have some leverage.

[1:16:15] » In these um cases, you said whether you could hardly hear the sound. What are

[1:16:20] the best ways to effectively cut the dey?

[1:16:25] uh an actual physical physical barrier and then use of materials, the right

[1:16:30] kind of material. Maybe it's an earthen burm. It might be uh the the the

[1:16:36] materials today. There are some fascinating materials that builders are

[1:16:41] using even in homes to absorb sound. So, I'm not a construction expert, but

[1:16:46] there's some pretty advanced materials to absorb sound. Just depends how high

[1:16:50] you want to go to and where the sound is coming from. it's if it's uh muffling a

[1:16:55] diesel sound or a jet engine sound or just the hum of the uh internal

[1:17:01] components, whether the whether the cement walls are, you know, 6 in thick

[1:17:05] or 12 in thick, lots of design issues that you again, if you were if you were

[1:17:11] in conversations with a potential um developer, those are the kinds of things

[1:17:15] you'd want to talk about. You want to talk about your concerns and then you'd

[1:17:19] want them to come back with ideas on how they would address your concerns.

[1:17:24] Continuing on with the white team, any questions

[1:17:29] Dennis? Supervisor Jenkins,

[1:17:33] » I'm just uh I'm curious. Is there a is there like a large swing going from

[1:17:39] the water cooled systems to the the dry and more enclosed systems in the

[1:17:46] industry? >> Uh large swing. Well, the trend is

[1:17:49] definitely away from uh evaporative systems and definitely toward closed

[1:17:56] loop and dry cooling. That is definitely the trend. Um it

[1:18:02] I I wouldn't I don't know the reason why, but I'm guessing public sentiment

[1:18:06] has something to do with it. So there that's definitely the trend.

[1:18:09] » Okay,

[1:18:13] Supervisor Langman. >> Hey, thank you very much for coming

[1:18:16] here. a lot of a lot of good information. Um, I got a couple of

[1:18:21] comments. Um, I'm involved also with a with a co-op, but it happens to be of

[1:18:26] the broadband variety. Um, um, what type of information do you have

[1:18:32] about uh any data centers that are located in Oaklair?

[1:18:38] Um,

[1:18:44] » do you know the name of the of the one you're thinking of?

[1:18:47] » Yes, I do. We our our co-op happens to be part owner of that data center.

[1:18:53] » Is it one that's currently in existence or being developed?

[1:18:56] » It's in existence. It's named Win Technologies.

[1:19:01] And what it is, it's a consortium of about 30 plus co-ops

[1:19:06] [clears throat] ranging from uh central Illinois,

[1:19:11] um most of the the entire state of Wisconsin,

[1:19:15] uh Minnesota, Iowa, and the UP. And uh most of the people that are

[1:19:22] sitting in this room are sending technology to this data center.

[1:19:29] And it's located in uh in uh the old Uni Royal building.

[1:19:35] If anybody ever heard >> Banberry Place, um I toured it uh last

[1:19:43] year. Uh it's got about 100 people that work there. Uh they're they're voted uh

[1:19:50] three years in a row of one of Oaklair's best places to work.

[1:19:55] Now, you know, obviously this whole when you

[1:20:00] when you talk about data centers, it's the big bad wolf is is the what seems to

[1:20:05] be the public sentiment. Uh and and I do understand the fact that we all use

[1:20:10] power, but nobody wants a power plant next to our house. But uh um there are

[1:20:18] solutions to smaller uh and and I I and I understand in the in the definition

[1:20:24] there's quite a few pages of a definition of what that uh data center

[1:20:30] how large scale it could possibly be and this doesn't look like this fits in

[1:20:35] that. Um, you know, uh, I'm glad that that,

[1:20:40] uh, Louie is going to allow us to get some more education because there's a

[1:20:44] lot there's a lot of stuff that that the general public doesn't understand about

[1:20:48] what this works, the pros and the con. And thanks for giving the opportunity

[1:20:53] for people to learn more about it. Thank you.

[1:20:55] » Yeah, I don't have uh I don't have Oaklair on my list. Um, and maybe it's

[1:20:59] because it it didn't it's because of the size. Um, but I the last point you made

[1:21:04] is really an excellent point. Um, and I I I'll maybe make more clearly a point I

[1:21:12] made earlier. It's it's fine to be opposed really to anything at all or in

[1:21:18] support of anything at all. But I would urge the a governing body, not just this

[1:21:23] Baron County Board, but really any governing body, and I know many of you

[1:21:26] are on other governing bodies as well. Um, and I but I'll use data centers as a

[1:21:31] as a an actual example as opposed to being for or against

[1:21:38] data [clears throat] centers. Uh, I would urge you to consider being for

[1:21:44] or against something below that the subset thereof.

[1:21:51] I mean, are we against data centers or are we against uh the light pollution or

[1:21:57] the sound or the dust? I mean, is is that our problem? Because if that's our

[1:22:03] problem, okay, well, let's address that. See if we can be addressed. Maybe it

[1:22:06] can't be addressed. Well, in that case, I I I just can't I can't see my way

[1:22:11] clear because we cannot address that. But you can't we don't want to just be

[1:22:15] absolutely against it or you we don't want to be 100% for it. Okay. But uh

[1:22:21] what happens uh they're all going to be used for evil purposes. So it doesn't

[1:22:25] matter. I'm I'm for it. It doesn't make any sense. It'd be like saying uh um uh

[1:22:31] I'm I'm against all bridges because u you know I I don't I don't like the the

[1:22:37] beams that they use. Well, that's ridiculous. Change the beams.

[1:22:42] You can still be for bridges. We have to be if we have a problem,

[1:22:47] let's address it. If we're for something, just make sure we know what

[1:22:50] we're for. Uh so it's we don't want to use blanket statements without knowing

[1:22:56] exactly what it is we are for or against. Uh and then if we're against

[1:23:01] it, let's try to address it. If it can't be addressed, you're perfectly

[1:23:05] legitimate to be against something. If you're for something and it is it is you

[1:23:10] understand why you're for it, perfectly fine to be for it.

[1:23:16] » Doing great, folks. White team, you want more questions or do you want me to

[1:23:20] defer to the blue team? I see nothing. So, blue team members,

[1:23:26] questions from to Mr. Okonnell. Supervisor Wentz.

[1:23:35] » Actually, I have several, but I'll try to try to limit uh the questions I have.

[1:23:41] Uh the first one is um not knowing much about the bigger data centers that you

[1:23:45] mentioned into DeForest and so forth. Um when those developments were in the

[1:23:52] planning stages, were there any requirements either at the county or

[1:23:57] city or state level for um environmental impact reviews for example?

[1:24:04] » Yes. Yeah. in uh in in several of those cases they had environmental

[1:24:10] impact um studies issues. Yes, they uh now not not to the extent where we might

[1:24:17] have had a um what is called an EIS environmental impact statement like a

[1:24:22] DNR type statement but certainly uh there would be an impact environmental

[1:24:26] impact >> water issue um you know uh contamination

[1:24:30] issue and around the site. Yes, there'd be those kinds of issues that would be

[1:24:35] that would be required of any particular building permit or the zoning

[1:24:39] department. Um absolutely. And and who would conduct those reviews then?

[1:24:46] » Uh well generally it's going to be a private they might they might hire out a

[1:24:50] private entity to conduct that. Um I'm not sure in that in the cases of the

[1:24:55] data centers >> I'm not sure how that would go but maybe

[1:24:59] a mutually agreed upon private entity. Uh I don't know that for certain but

[1:25:04] that would make some sense to me. >> Okay.

[1:25:07] » Okay. Super I can't that's the end of the question. I got to respect. We have

[1:25:10] to let your your your other team members ask questions or I have to give it back

[1:25:14] to the red team. So, Supervisor >> Greg Turk,

[1:25:20] » thank you for coming and sharing the information. My question is more if a

[1:25:26] data center is built uh with property taxes and does this affect net new

[1:25:33] construction to help the county down the road with levy limits?

[1:25:40] » Well, this uh a data center is a significant build. uh the dollar amount

[1:25:47] the value dollar amount on these data centers has been pretty significant um

[1:25:51] at least on the on the large scale ones. So that's going to be a pretty

[1:25:55] significant net new construction. Um but Baron County is pretty big county. So

[1:26:02] you know is it going to is it going to be noticeable? It'd be noticeable but is

[1:26:06] it going to bring your property taxes down to zero? No. But you'd probably

[1:26:11] notice it. I mean I'm >> Jeff probably even ran the numbers.

[1:26:14] Yeah, I mean it would if we got a $40 million that would be or $7 billion. So

[1:26:20] take if it was $40 million take that that'd be what? 5% drop in the equalized

[1:26:25] valuation. So that'd be a 5% drop in your mill rate. But may I chime in Mark?

[1:26:31] » Um we do have a town chair sitting here to my left and we're finding out that to

[1:26:36] get around their property taxes, they don't attach them to the soil. So now

[1:26:41] they're personal property and the state legislature did away with personal

[1:26:44] property taxes. So that's how they get around paying taxes. So there's no

[1:26:48] effect upside effect for the county from the property tax side. So

[1:26:55] » done county supervisor Shreddle. Yeah, I think we've had data centers and

[1:27:02] small like Fran was talking about for a long time and of course we're in

[1:27:07] constant competition with China which we have to acknowledge and hopefully beat

[1:27:13] them at it because they put up they don't come to a board like this and say

[1:27:17] well we want to put up a data center they just do it because the government

[1:27:20] orders it. So, another thing going back to the probably the 1850s during the

[1:27:26] industrial revolution, people were just wild. We're going to lose our jobs. Our

[1:27:30] kids won't have any jobs. Then you got to the 1900s. What are we going to do

[1:27:35] with all the horses? Now the cars are coming in. The harness maker in the

[1:27:38] corner. He's going to be out of business.

[1:27:41] So, I think this is inev inevitable, but I agree. We should really look into

[1:27:46] this. I thank you for your input, Mr. Okonnell. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir.

[1:27:51] Blue team members, you have Supervisor Vaughn.

[1:27:56] » Uh, can we go back to the the Wii Energies and the PSC ruling? Yeah. You

[1:28:00] said that was just for WEI Energies. So, if our township doesn't have WE

[1:28:03] energies, it would not affect us at all. >> It would it would not affect you.

[1:28:06] There'd be there would have to be another request for a tariff adjustment.

[1:28:10] Uh, but I would I would be incredibly surprised if this uh does not get

[1:28:16] extended to all operations. Uh that might be a

[1:28:22] that would be something that I could see the legislature and governor agreeing on

[1:28:25] regardless of who occupies the legislature and governor's office.

[1:28:29] Depending upon how the elections go, they may not agree on much of anything,

[1:28:33] but this might be one of those things they could agree on. Uh I could see

[1:28:36] that. >> Other questions?

[1:28:40] » No, I have to go to Supervisor Wel >> and I'm and I'm I'm happy to talk with

[1:28:46] anyone after this meeting. You can call me anytime, day, night, weekend, or

[1:28:51] holiday. Chat with you as much as you like.

[1:28:55] » Hi Mark, thanks a lot. I came in Sorry. >> No, it's

[1:28:59] » Am I um thanks a lot for the stuff you

[1:29:02] shared. It was I my opinions are based on what I've heard from people people

[1:29:07] that are complaining. So, thank you for that. Um

[1:29:11] what you mentioned county leverage or leverage that we could have doing this

[1:29:15] early. um at what point um

[1:29:21] how do we protect that leverage in still using a mortorium and what um I forgot

[1:29:27] this oh the NDAs um I've heard a lot of conflicting

[1:29:32] um messages about the NDA they're worthless they're they're helpful what

[1:29:37] what do you what are your thoughts on that and how have other areas that have

[1:29:41] had those have had luck with those >> well the NDAs Um perhaps Rebecca can

[1:29:47] speak to this when she speaks in a few minutes, but um

[1:29:52] the NDAs have been a a flash point for the citizenry for some time um because

[1:30:00] they're viewed as secretive. Um and uh somehow

[1:30:07] you the uh information that should be revealed

[1:30:13] is not being revealed. Now there is in in the private sector there is of course

[1:30:18] reason for NDAs because uh deals uh if they were public could go ary uh if you

[1:30:25] were trying to acquire land if you were trying to get lease holds uh if you're

[1:30:30] trying to put a deal together but if the information got out it could blow the

[1:30:34] whole thing up uh you know things of that sort and so there are reasons for

[1:30:37] an NDA. The question is whether a public entity if it holds any water and that's

[1:30:43] something perhaps that Rebecca can get into um on the first part the leverage

[1:30:49] question uh I if let's take a different state if if you were a and and to the

[1:30:56] gentleman's earlier point we've had data centers around for a long time this is

[1:31:01] not a new issue it's the issue of the day but it's not new I mean our friends

[1:31:06] to the southwest Iowa had data centers for decades. Uh it's just become the

[1:31:13] flavor of the day and the issue. But um if we had a state where local

[1:31:20] communities around our entire state were saying

[1:31:25] I want a data center, bring a data center in here and and they were

[1:31:29] competing. Then our leverage becomes basically non-existent.

[1:31:36] Uh but we don't have that. we have uh there's difficulty in select in in

[1:31:41] citing a data center. So that's where the leverage takes hold. That's where it

[1:31:46] exists. Now we also have communities all over the state uh passing moratoriums.

[1:31:54] Now a moratorum uh to to take a break and think about

[1:31:59] things. Okay fine. a moratorum uh which is

[1:32:07] um window dressing for a ban not so not so not not as good not so

[1:32:13] much um and that potentially invites litigation as well potentially so you

[1:32:20] got to be careful about that I mean to say you know we're we're going to have a

[1:32:26] it's moratorum but really we're just doing that because we want to ban them

[1:32:29] forever it's not probably not a wise policy move. Um where does your where

[1:32:37] does your your leverage end

[1:32:42] when uh when data centers have um choices as to where they are going to go

[1:32:51] and communities have said we we would like to um work with you and um uh and

[1:32:59] we want you we're inviting you into our community and we we we would we can come

[1:33:05] to agreement on using marginal land and uh sound barriers and uh we'll work with

[1:33:12] you on this or work with you on that and the and the data center says we'll do

[1:33:16] this and this and this for you. When that starts happening leverage decreases

[1:33:21] when will that be? I'm not sure. It's going to happen at some point. At some

[1:33:26] point uh communities in our state are going to say uh I think I want a data

[1:33:32] center. Some will, many will not, some will. When that happens, leverage

[1:33:37] decreases. >> Supervisor Schneider, you have the

[1:33:41] floor. >> I guess a question I had is, is there

[1:33:44] any security issues that uh fall back onto the county from, you know, security

[1:33:50] to fire protection or all those kinds of things?

[1:33:53] » Oh, definitely. Uh yeah, that's one of the issues that that we are concerned

[1:33:57] about. Uh there is I mean there's a uh fire and EMS is a major issue with these

[1:34:03] data centers. I mean that is a that is an issue and if it is in a township um

[1:34:09] our townships are not um well equipped some townships are not well equipped to

[1:34:15] handle uh fire e not so much EMS because we don't have a lot of employees but a

[1:34:20] fire issue at a largecale facility that is definitely an issue. definitely an

[1:34:26] issue and that should be one of the issues on the table. If you were going

[1:34:30] to pursue a conversation with a data center, you would want to talk about

[1:34:32] that. You'd want to have agreements in place uh with a local uh mun

[1:34:37] municipality, nearby municipality, perhaps the county, although we're not

[1:34:40] involved in fire, but local municipalities. You would want to have

[1:34:44] you want to be able to address that because we cannot we do not want a

[1:34:48] large-scale facility uh going up in flames and we just no one wants that. So

[1:34:54] you you'd want to address that. Now security issue. Uh these are generally

[1:35:00] very large buildings uh with thick cement walls.

[1:35:05] Um you know you're not going to you're not

[1:35:08] going to climb in through the window of one of these things. So

[1:35:12] that not quite as much there.

[1:35:18] » Supervisor Oki. Does anybody else on the blue team want

[1:35:22] to talk that hasn't? Okay. Would

[1:35:26] » have more question. >> Would would the sand plants areas be a

[1:35:31] good place for a data center? >> Uh again, I'm not a construction person.

[1:35:36] Uh depends on how how deep you could put footings, I suppose, but I don't see why

[1:35:41] not. Um, I mean they got access transportation access and I mean I

[1:35:47] as a layman would seem to me it'd be a pretty good spot. You get it's generally

[1:35:52] flat land and and and also you need the infrastructure

[1:35:57] the like the interstates having that's why the forest and D county and St. Croy

[1:36:03] County are getting some of the hyper ones because they have the the

[1:36:07] underground wiring and infrastructure there which I don't think we have in

[1:36:11] Baron. So, we aren't going to get the the biggest of the biggest. We'd

[1:36:15] probably get something in the mid-range if we wanted some.

[1:36:19] » Yeah. Access to the to the to power to to power and the grid would be

[1:36:24] incredibly important. Uh and then how far if you know direct access, how far

[1:36:29] it has to be built out, uh which is a cost factor to the data center, uh would

[1:36:34] be an issue that that the data center or the developer would have to consider.

[1:36:39] Um, of course with a sand plant, uh, I'm not sure what power needs that they had

[1:36:44] previously, but I'm guessing they were notable. So, there may be significant

[1:36:49] power already piped into a sand area. Um, but yeah, power would be a a major

[1:36:56] uh a major issue. And then whether it's an evaporative system with a sand plant

[1:37:02] or whether it's a dry cooling or a closed loop, uh, that would be another

[1:37:05] issue. Those are the probably probably some of the

[1:37:10] some of the major issues that would be under consideration for a developer

[1:37:13] » because we have had well just so everybody knows the NDA is a

[1:37:17] non-disclosure agreement. Um, but we have had the JDAs with the solar farms

[1:37:21] and stuff and so we've got some experience with doing that and to to

[1:37:26] that's why I want everybody's to get as knowledgeable as they can today in

[1:37:31] between the 29th whatever because like they said the leverage is going to go

[1:37:36] down and if we want proper we want a data center if we did now now is the

[1:37:42] time to be looking at it because we do have some leverage and we do have I

[1:37:46] think a chance here. Now, I'm not saying don't put in the paper Louis says let's

[1:37:50] get data center here. But, you know, anyway,

[1:37:54] » well, the chairman makes a very good point uh referencing uh a a JDA, joint

[1:38:00] development agreement. So if you were going to go forward whether it's a data

[1:38:04] center or some other um venture uh that that required um public sector

[1:38:12] infrastructure or public sector interests

[1:38:16] um you you would want to consider a joint development agreement. In other

[1:38:20] words uh an agreement where some of your needs and concerns would be addressed.

[1:38:27] Um and that is where Atollis Law comes in. I mean, they have lots of experience

[1:38:31] in this area. And that is where you'd want to address some of the the the fire

[1:38:37] EMS issues, uh maybe some of the transportation issues, uh maybe the uh

[1:38:43] the what's going to happen to the building down the road issues. Um you

[1:38:48] know, things of that sort. Um I mean for example one of the issues that it's

[1:38:53] talked about in some other counties uh what happens if the when when the the

[1:38:59] owner of the data center or user of the data center in some cases the the user

[1:39:03] may not be the owner. It might be a developer but what happens when the uh

[1:39:07] user of the data center is no longer no longer needs it. 25 years from now there

[1:39:13] is some other technology and we no longer use data centers. We use lasers

[1:39:18] and the satellites. Okay, what happens then? We just have a great big empty

[1:39:23] building. Well, we have that now sometimes with a Walmart or we had it

[1:39:27] with Kmart stores for a while, but okay, it's this is not something new, but we

[1:39:31] have that big large building. So, we want to think about that in advance.

[1:39:35] Well, we might say in a joint development agreement, uh you know, when

[1:39:38] you're building this data center, um why don't you build some cutouts for uh

[1:39:44] large equipment just in case 20 years from now you vacate? Um maybe we'll buy

[1:39:50] the building for a dollar and uh house all of our large uh county trucks in

[1:39:56] that building with the sand or the salt. Okay. They might say, "Forget it." No,

[1:40:04] they might say, "Okay, that's easy to do in the outset. Be hard to do after the

[1:40:09] fact, but it's easy to do when we think about it in advance." Okay. They might

[1:40:14] say, "Oh, that's an easy one. Sure. What else do you need?" Maybe that's the part

[1:40:17] of the conversation. That that all happens in a joint development

[1:40:20] agreement. So, if you talk early, that's part of that leverage issue. uh if you

[1:40:25] were in a conversation uh to try to address some of your concerns or needs

[1:40:29] or desires that you anticipate down the road.

[1:40:34] » All right. So, blue team, you're done. Back. No, we're No, no, we're we have to

[1:40:39] go back. We're going to do this. >> Going to go back to the red team. So,

[1:40:43] questions. Any more questions from the red team?

[1:40:45] » Um we're going to go down the road. Cook efforts. Ellison

[1:40:49] » just quickly I did uh so Microsoft [clears throat]

[1:40:52] their campus that's what they call it uh they're going to they cover up about 600

[1:40:57] acres uh building the footprint of the building now of all of them is only 88

[1:41:02] acres total those six are going to buy up about 4,800 acres um much like your

[1:41:08] airports if they're starting to do the Rice Lake airport if you go out there

[1:41:11] there's crop land inside that fence and that's part of their buffering uh

[1:41:15] capacity so you're not losing all of that and um to the data center itself. I

[1:41:21] mean, that's just part of their buffering process and ensuring that you

[1:41:24] can't hear them. So, >> thank you, Supervisor Cook. Supervisor

[1:41:28] efforts, you have the floor. >> Um yeah, my question is to the Dun

[1:41:34] County representative. Um, I don't know if I'm the only one, but you said that

[1:41:40] or it was stated that the property tax doesn't apply because

[1:41:46] it's not attached to the land. I don't understand that.

[1:41:50] » So, the one I looked up and the one that's being proposed in my township,

[1:41:53] Dun County, is a modular data center. Prefab buildings kind of look a lot like

[1:41:59] » Yeah, it looks a lot like a shipping container.

[1:42:02] » Okay. >> And it's on leased land. So, you know,

[1:42:06] then it's the rules are different for assessing, but there's one in Dun County

[1:42:10] that I looked up and they're not paying any taxes. So, I don't know why I

[1:42:14] haven't asked an assessor. >> And is that is that supposed to be a

[1:42:17] data center or like a Bitcoin? >> Uh, the one being pitched in our

[1:42:22] township is very small and it's I think it's AI.

[1:42:28] » Okay. Thank you. >> Supervisor Ellison, you have the floor.

[1:42:32] Uh, yes. Uh given the recent activity for building data centers, they must be

[1:42:36] quite profitable. Do you know how profitable they are?

[1:42:40] » Uh very very >> very very very profitable. Yeah. So

[1:42:45] that's this goes to the leverage and joint development agreement. Uh money is

[1:42:51] not the issue. So yes that it's I mean you don't want to ask make unreasonable

[1:42:57] asks but um [clears throat] on the other that from the data centers

[1:43:04] you this money is not the issue. >> Supervisor Anderson you have the floor.

[1:43:08] » Um yes thank you. Um so is it true only the mega data centers need dedicated the

[1:43:16] dedicated longhaul data lines which we talked about that's correct.

[1:43:21] Uh, say that again. >> Okay. So, dedicated longhaul data lines

[1:43:27] is what the big mega ones need. Is that correct?

[1:43:33] » Um, dedicated longhaul data lines. Um, well, all of the data centers need

[1:43:40] dedicated >> like they're big like this

[1:43:44] » the power lines. >> Um,

[1:43:46] » she's talking about internet. They they will all need

[1:43:49] » dedicated let's call them you know large internet pipes let's call it they all

[1:43:55] need they will all need that large or small

[1:43:58] » okay so even this okay so even the smaller ones yeah um don't need that is

[1:44:03] that correct and so we're not close enough to those big ones that would come

[1:44:08] to Baron County and there's there's been no interest in in even asking for a data

[1:44:14] center in Baron County so far I think that's what I remember hearing

[1:44:18] Um, well, I don't know about that. I I don't know. I But I would say, um, given

[1:44:24] what I know of the landscape, um, pretty much anywhere in Wisconsin,

[1:44:30] if a local community said, uh, I'm interested in a potential data center,

[1:44:38] you will have people knocking on your door if that's what you said.

[1:44:41] » Okay. Um now can can infrastructure be built out to uh create a large enough

[1:44:47] pipe? Sure. Um I mean at a cost and but that would have to be evaluated um to

[1:44:55] determine um but mostly the conversations that are occurring are

[1:44:59] communities saying we don't want a data center. So that that's currently the

[1:45:03] conversation. So we never get to the um people don't get to the convers to the

[1:45:08] point of the conversation of well how much would it cost to build out for the

[1:45:11] infrastructure uh power andor um let's call it the internet pipe that's not

[1:45:16] really the right term but for our conversation never get to that point.

[1:45:23] » Anyone else on the red team white team? Supervisor Klick you have the floor.

[1:45:29] So, if we look at the footprint from what most of these are looking at,

[1:45:33] they're 300-,600 acres. If there was an interest of putting one in Baron County,

[1:45:39] I'm guessing it would be someplace that's in a township near one of our

[1:45:43] communities. Could you explain how the process and the negotiation would happen

[1:45:49] between the community, the municipality, the county, the land owner who owns the

[1:45:56] property and has the rights to it and the developer? And who who takes charge

[1:46:00] on that? How how do all those issues and negotiations take place?

[1:46:07] » Well, there is no single way that this goes.

[1:46:14] If you described a way, it's happened um in in this country. but how it might go.

[1:46:22] Um

[1:46:26] I I think you're right that um if there was going to be a data center in Baron

[1:46:31] County, it [clears throat] is likely to be within the jurisdiction of a

[1:46:35] municipality uh or an extr territorial zoning of a

[1:46:39] municipality or in a township adjacent to a municipality. That is the most

[1:46:45] likely the most likely scenario. Um there be uh

[1:46:52] the the the assessment by a developer would be whether there is a political

[1:46:59] climate to be uh for that to happen. That might happen with u the

[1:47:05] municipality with the township andor the county uh more likely with the economic

[1:47:11] development corp of one of those three jurisdictions or all of them. uh

[1:47:17] communicating with the industry and if that is the case then conversations

[1:47:22] would begin. Uh and those conversations would entail um what are our potential

[1:47:28] uh locations? Uh your local economic development experts would likely know of

[1:47:35] potential locations or at least find out where they are. Uh there'd be some site

[1:47:39] visits. There'd be some conversations about potential uh lease or acquisition

[1:47:46] of property. Uh and and then there'd be some conversations about well uh how

[1:47:53] could this possibly come together? Where is the power? What's the power

[1:47:57] situation? What kind of a system might we have if water is needed? Does the

[1:48:02] municipal uh water system can it handle whatever they wish to put in place?

[1:48:08] uh is the grid system sufficient? Uh all of those types of conversations would be

[1:48:14] ongoing. Uh if it all if it all came if if all the answers to all the questions

[1:48:20] were yes andor maybe then it would be a neg negotiations might start with one or

[1:48:26] all of the local jurisdictions about what would be necessary to get the

[1:48:31] proper approvals permits zoning whatever might be necessary to have this uh

[1:48:38] begin. Uh and then lots lot I'm going through

[1:48:42] the high level steps. There's a hundred steps in between all of these. Uh there

[1:48:46] probably have to be some sort of public relations campaign uh to let people know

[1:48:51] what this let the citizens know what this would mean. Uh to allay any fears

[1:48:55] that they might have to uh address any concerns they might that the citizens

[1:49:00] might have to talk with local businesses about what it might mean for them. uh

[1:49:05] the city, town, village, and/or county uh would want to talk with the developer

[1:49:11] andor perhaps the final operator of the of the center uh about what desires they

[1:49:16] might have in a joint development agreement. Uh all headed up by likely

[1:49:20] the economic development coordinator or or director. Uh all of those things

[1:49:26] would be happening somewhat uh uh cons

[1:49:31] uh one by one, but maybe some of them at the same time and eventually uh you

[1:49:38] might have a a a a beginning of a project uh and being built and then

[1:49:45] then it would happen. But it would that's one way it might occur. It might

[1:49:51] uh how would it not occur? a developer coming in, never talking to

[1:49:56] the local jurisdictions, going out and acquiring property, uh, or a leaseold on

[1:50:01] a property, and then saying to the locals, here's what we're going to do.

[1:50:05] It's highly unlikely that that would ever happen. That would be that's a

[1:50:09] recipe for disaster. So, it's that's not how it would happen. So, I would say

[1:50:14] talking to economic development, your your economic development people is

[1:50:18] most likely how it would happen. Start at least.

[1:50:23] Other questions? Supervisor Layman.

[1:50:26] » Um just one more comment. Mr. Ellison's uh comment about the amount of money um

[1:50:32] that these people possess. Um it it's a unique uh business platform where where

[1:50:40] the internet broadband companies uh lay the footwork, the fiber to the home and

[1:50:46] transmit all of this data uh basically uh for a set fee for us to to to

[1:50:53] maintain that line. But uh the big companies uh Netflix pays nothing.

[1:51:01] They're broadcasting this through our system

[1:51:05] and they do not uh we do not charge them or have no way of charging them. And

[1:51:12] then what happens is is that they start streaming people start streaming uh more

[1:51:18] than what the capacity is. So, we're upping our speeds and it's kind of a

[1:51:23] burden on the broadband companies and these people are are untaxed and are

[1:51:29] just raping people at at money that you can't even imagine.

[1:51:34] Thank you.

[1:51:38] Other questions? All right. So, now we're back to the

[1:51:42] blue team. Supervisor Wentz, >> I still have many more, but I'll I'll

[1:51:48] choose one. Um you've talked about um property taxes and whether or not

[1:51:53] they're paid by the companies. Um what are are there data

[1:52:00] about the effects of data center development on property values

[1:52:06] for homeowners and businesses in the vicinity of the data center?

[1:52:11] » Uh I do not have that with me but I can look into that. Um, again, they they are

[1:52:18] likely to be um they're not going to be in residential areas, so they're going

[1:52:22] to be in an industrial type area or out by it themselves somewhere. But, uh, let

[1:52:30] me look into that uh, and see if we can find any data,

[1:52:34] no pun intended, uh, data on, um, on what, um, if there's been any impact on

[1:52:41] data centers. If it's not in Wisconsin, let me see if I can find something. uh

[1:52:45] around the rest of the country. By the way, that reminds me the the packet of

[1:52:48] information put together in your packet was really exceptional. I mean, I read

[1:52:53] everything. It was really really well done. You get some Niko material here.

[1:52:57] Uh stuff from um um your economic development expert. Uh really good

[1:53:03] stuff. Really well done. >> Supervisor Shreel.

[1:53:08] » Yeah. Just quick comment on taxes. I watched PBS here autumn three weeks ago

[1:53:13] about the Port Washington and there was a quite a significant savings on

[1:53:18] property tax for the people in that area. So I don't know how much or

[1:53:22] anything but we had a question I'd like to answer

[1:53:26] that I used AI again according to this uh let me read the entire text here.

[1:53:31] Lowden County, Virginia, widely known as the data data center alley, is home to

[1:53:37] approximately 150 to 200 operational data centers with dozens more in

[1:53:42] planning or construction stages. Point number one, footprint. Over 40, excuse

[1:53:48] me, over 53 million square feet of data center spaces operating or under

[1:53:53] development. Point number two, internet traffic. Roughly 30% to 70% of all

[1:53:59] global internet traffic passes through facilities in Lowden County every day.

[1:54:04] Power capacity installed capacity stands at around 4 gaww

[1:54:11] it says in parenthesis with another 2 to three gigawatts in the development

[1:54:14] pipeline. If you watched the uh video that I sent to you from Wharton School

[1:54:20] of Business, they did say that 100 I believe it's sorry, I think it's 90% of

[1:54:25] all data centers in the United States of America are located in six counties.

[1:54:30] So, going back to the blue team, if there aren't any questions, I'll go over

[1:54:33] to red. Supervisor Vaughn, you have the floor.

[1:54:37] » Thank you. Um, back to your recipe for disaster about coming in without telling

[1:54:41] anybody. Do you think that would hold true for unzoneed towns because there's

[1:54:44] really no regulation there to stop? >> Yeah, I I um I mean you never want to

[1:54:50] say never, but uh I think it'd be a huge mistake uh for especially in today's

[1:54:56] environment. Um to not talk with the local officials. So I I would be very

[1:55:01] surprised if that were to occur. Um it could it certainly could. you might get

[1:55:06] a rogue developer that is trying to force, you know, force their way, but uh

[1:55:12] given to the environment today, it's the quickest way to get uh to create public

[1:55:17] opposition. So, I it would just it'd be it'd be foolish. It could be done, but

[1:55:23] it'd be foolish. >> Supervisor Oki, just for information,

[1:55:27] Dave Armstrong had prior commitment today. He could not be here otherwise he

[1:55:31] would have. He's already compiled a lot of information. He wanted me to say he's

[1:55:37] not pro, he's not con, he's he's trying to provide information and help us out

[1:55:42] and in the future he definitely will be. So, he he's gathered a lot of

[1:55:45] information and he's he's pretty up to speed on what's going on.

[1:55:49] » Well, Dave is one of the smartest guys in Madison and you are lucky to have him

[1:55:53] as your economic development guy. Um, and he put together some really, really

[1:55:58] good information. uh he's just I mean right down the middle and good

[1:56:04] information uh that people can rely on to make a decision.

[1:56:08] » Red team. >> Um just another comment. Um so someone

[1:56:13] asked about the values Laden County which is home of the largest nearly 200

[1:56:17] data centers. is there has been studies there but again these data centers uh

[1:56:21] are older uh and newer uh but they found in their study of over if you're within

[1:56:27] a half a mile you may take up to a 2.8% 8% decrease in the value of your home.

[1:56:32] However, recent studies showing with the new data centers, very little if any

[1:56:39] uh AI uh if you you spend the extra 20 bucks or 100 bucks, you get a lot more.

[1:56:43] » This is crazy. More money you spend, the better answer you get.

[1:56:46] » It's true. >> Supervisor Gors, you have the floor. Uh

[1:56:50] yeah, I would like to know if there's um do these centers have to be above ground

[1:56:56] all the time or this can they be underground a little bit or at all or

[1:57:02] » Well, that's a good question. I've never gotten that question before. Uh I don't

[1:57:07] [clears throat] think that they could be below ground. I'd have to I'd have to

[1:57:10] look into that, but I've never heard of one being below ground. Uh,

[1:57:15] [clears throat]

[1:57:17] » that's a that's an interesting question. I That's

[1:57:22] » I give you credit that that's a brand new one. That's good. That's good. You

[1:57:25] get a star, Jim. Good job. >> It'll be less sightly. That's one thing.

[1:57:28] I get a star. Oh, man. [laughter] >> Do you want me to call Sally? You don't

[1:57:33] want to start running a chainsaw here, Supervisor Gors. Okay.

[1:57:36] » No. >> All right. Anybody else on on the white

[1:57:39] team? >> Blue team. Supervisor Wentz, I know

[1:57:43] you've had I know you've got more questions.

[1:57:51] Th this might be very nuts and bolts, but in terms of a county's approach or

[1:57:58] its leverage, I suppose in um you know being able to weigh in on

[1:58:04] usages, things like that, does the would a county have the

[1:58:11] authority or the ability to specify certain design considerations? It's like

[1:58:17] if you're going to put your data center here, it has to be, you know, have the

[1:58:22] dry, you know, whatever it is, the open or closed loop cooling system or you

[1:58:27] have to, you know, make sure that, you know, light pollution isn't spread. Can

[1:58:33] we specify those things or a county, not necessarily Baron, but can a county do

[1:58:40] that? >> Well, that's a it's a good question.

[1:58:42] This is going to be a Rebecca question. Um but there's a it's a fine line right

[1:58:48] between creating the structure and framework within which uh an industry, a

[1:58:56] business or an individual can conduct their affairs

[1:59:00] and specifically uh telling someone exactly how they're

[1:59:05] going to live their life there. That's a fine line. Now we also have uh it's very

[1:59:11] very common. It's everywhere in this state. Conditional use permit, right?

[1:59:15] Very specific. So that's a Rebecca question which she will address. Um I

[1:59:22] suspect there there are some things that we can do. Um now you can ask for

[1:59:29] anything, but can you can you make it can you can you can you

[1:59:36] place conditions on exactly what you want? Um there's going to be that's

[1:59:43] going to be a limit that Rebecca can perhaps address that. I'm not I'm not

[1:59:47] even sure if she has the answer today, but we'll we'll see. It's a good

[1:59:50] question. No, I mean you if you if you say I mean here's one. Let me give you a

[1:59:55] a ridiculous example. Uh you can have your you can have your business, but you

[2:00:00] have to make sure that all the employees get 17 minute breaks every day at one

[2:00:04] o'clock. You can't do that. Now you're telling people how to run their

[2:00:07] business. or you can uh build your uh development, but I want everybody in the

[2:00:12] development to have dinner at 6:15. Well, that's ridiculous. You can't tell

[2:00:16] people how to live their life or how to run their business, but can you do

[2:00:21] certain things? Certain things. Where is that line?

[2:00:26] That's that's for an attorney. All right. To the assembly. I'm going to

[2:00:31] step out here. Um we've been at this an hour and 45 minutes, and I'm wondering

[2:00:35] if a break is necessary. So, I really have a two-part question for the board.

[2:00:39] Are we are we close to a few more questions and then a break or are we at

[2:00:43] a break? What what would be the preference? I don't want to cut anybody

[2:00:45] off because that's what we have no time limit. That's what that's the beauty of

[2:00:49] a committee the whole we're going to stay here till we get the questions

[2:00:52] answered. But [laughter] do we need to make our bladders gladder or what do we

[2:00:55] need to do here?

[2:00:59] » Question. Okay. So, I'm going to go around the room. Questions from the red

[2:01:01] team. >> I I I'm just use one more comment. So,

[2:01:05] Quick Trip, uh, for the people that are concerned about them just popping in.

[2:01:09] Quick just doesn't show up and build, they did a lot of study and

[2:01:14] access. These these data centers already know if there's a site in Baron

[2:01:19] County that best suits their needs because of the cost of construction,

[2:01:23] lines, um, and placement. Just like solar farms, solar farms that come to

[2:01:29] the county had to be cited by MYSO. They already knew, um, those spots. So that

[2:01:34] it's the same thing. If you have um a sand mine, a substation that's not being

[2:01:40] used, probably likely that that's that's going to be looked at far before they

[2:01:44] come and knock on your door and you're in the middle of nowhere.

[2:01:48] » Okay. Any other comments from the red team?

[2:01:52] White, blue.

[2:01:57] I'm going to state that I received no other questions from the assembly. So, I

[2:02:01] am going to with the permission all those in favor of taking a do you want a

[2:02:05] 10 or 15 minute break? >> 10.

[2:02:07] » 10. All those in favor of a 10-minute break from the board of supervisors,

[2:02:11] raise your right hand. We're going to take a 10-minute break. My clock says

[2:02:15] 2:44. We will start promptly at >> in 10 minutes. [laughter]

[2:11:49] pull the Baron County Board of Supervisors back into session.

[2:11:55] Give me just a minute to get my files organized here. We have completed

[2:12:00] section 6 uh C uh sorry 6C1 with Mr. Okonnell finishing his presentation and

[2:12:08] I'll declare that the questions from the board have ceased for him. So at this

[2:12:12] time I am going to introduce uh attorney Rebecca Roker from Atlas Law

[2:12:18] and let her give her presentation on the potential ordinance that would be the uh

[2:12:23] underly the moratorum. So with that, Rebecca, welcome and uh the floor is

[2:12:28] yours. >> Thank you so much. Uh good afternoon

[2:12:31] everyone again. I'm Rebecca Roker from Atollis Law. Um you're probably more

[2:12:35] familiar with my partner Andy Phillips who's uh also general counsel for WCA.

[2:12:39] So it's great to be here in person and to see all of you. Um I'm going to

[2:12:44] piggyback off of um Mark's presentation a little bit. um you know he started

[2:12:48] with uh this is um you know this is the hot topic uh not only in the community

[2:12:55] but also on a statewide and nationwide basis. Um and given that data centers

[2:13:02] are such a new hot topic, we as lawyers have to view the

[2:13:07] regulation of data centers through the old lens of existing law. And so some of

[2:13:14] the challenges that Andy and I and our partners at Atollis face is how do we

[2:13:19] » [clears throat] >> utilize existing law to regulate these

[2:13:23] things data centers that are so new and present very unique impacts and I'm

[2:13:30] going to get in more into more detail on how and why the county may want to

[2:13:35] regulate those those particular impacts. Um but I think it's from a from a big

[2:13:41] picture standpoint um you know don't underestimate the challenge that each of

[2:13:46] you are facing in working within your statutory authority as a county and

[2:13:52] using that statutory authority to address a very new and emergent issue.

[2:13:59] Um, so again to piggyback on something Mark said, um, in terms of when you are

[2:14:06] crafting your ordinances, um, and the no picking of winners or

[2:14:11] losers, um, I love that phrase because it's a really nice way to explain the

[2:14:17] concept of equal protection and the constitutional protections of of the

[2:14:23] constitutional protection of due process under the law and equal protection under

[2:14:28] the law. And so when you're developing your ordinances or when you have any

[2:14:33] matter come before you or the zoning committee or any body um you have to

[2:14:39] ensure that due process and equal protection are granted to that

[2:14:44] applicant. And so when you're developing your uh ordinances or whatever um if you

[2:14:51] decide to regulate data centers um keep that in mind that we have to ensure that

[2:14:57] not only are you operating in your statutory authority but you're also

[2:15:01] operating in such a way that passes constitutional muster.

[2:15:07] Um again to piggy back off of what Mark said. Thank you Mark. Um the talking

[2:15:13] about some of the pros and cons, there's a few of the the pros and cons that Mark

[2:15:19] hit on that um really underscore some of the particular legal issues. Um and as

[2:15:25] I've said [clears throat] before and Andy and I always joke like how many

[2:15:28] times do we say our statutory authority under chapter 59? Probably at least 10

[2:15:33] times when we do a presentation. Or you can't do anything that you don't have

[2:15:38] authority to do. That's another one we say all the time. Um, but the same

[2:15:42] applies here for data center regulation or any regulation that the county may

[2:15:47] want to adopt. You can only do what what chapter 59 or the other ways in the law

[2:15:54] allows you to do. That's where counties are different than other um governmental

[2:15:59] bodies. And so when we're looking at the pros and the cons, the first question

[2:16:04] becomes what can you regulate? And so a lot of the issues that Mark touched on

[2:16:10] such as noise, dust, impact on roads, potential size, those fall within the

[2:16:19] county's statutory authority under chapter 5969, which is your zoning

[2:16:24] authority. But things like water usage or power usage um or those more um you

[2:16:33] know uh I will say largecale impacts um those you do not have statutory

[2:16:40] authority to regulate. Now, we can look to other resources, particularly as

[2:16:45] we're talking about a local agreement, to build in protections for those

[2:16:50] issues. But again, always keep in mind that when you're developing an

[2:16:53] ordinance, you have to look at it through the lens of what [clears throat]

[2:16:57] can we do as a county under our statutory authority.

[2:17:03] Okay. Um, couple other items on the pros and cons. I want to touch on the NDA um

[2:17:10] and the non-disclosure agreements that um certainly come under public scrutiny

[2:17:15] because we as a governmental body have an obligation for open and transparent

[2:17:20] government. Um that's built into our state law and it is uh really codified

[2:17:27] in chapter 19 which includes our open records law and our public records law.

[2:17:33] Um and so in the event that the county were to proceed with a development um

[2:17:43] and the developer asked that the county enter into an NDA, I think you could,

[2:17:50] but it would still be subject to public records. Um, if a developer said, uh,

[2:17:56] no, it's accepted under chapter 19 and therefore the county can't disclose it,

[2:18:02] that is a whole other set of issues, um, in determining whether that exception to

[2:18:08] the obligation to disclose a public record would apply. And I think that I

[2:18:14] can speak for Andy. If you were uh ever asked to enter into an NDA and it's

[2:18:18] something that you wanted to uh pursue that we would demand that a a developer

[2:18:26] indemnify the county for any cost of having to process or defend their

[2:18:32] decisions under the public records law. You know that is absolutely something

[2:18:37] that becomes imperative. And again as to you know what Mark indicated NDAs are

[2:18:42] very important in the private sector. They can be very important in the public

[2:18:47] sector also you know particularly if we're talking about negotiating from the

[2:18:52] county's position in making sure that negotiations are protecting the county.

[2:18:57] But again we always have to view that through the lens of what state law

[2:19:01] requires for public records. Um, so if you hear of a community or a

[2:19:05] municipality that is taking a a bright line like, "Nope, we can't disclose

[2:19:11] there." There there most likely is some other public records issue. Um, and or

[2:19:16] there at least should be that public records analysis at play.

[2:19:21] All right. Um, let's see. Oh, very briefly on um the the lawsuits that Mark

[2:19:27] mentioned, um the uh the tariff matter uh involving Wii Energies and the PSC

[2:19:36] order. Um that is currently in front of the Ozaki County Circuit Court. Um

[2:19:42] because it's an appeal of a PSC decision, it has not gone far yet. I

[2:19:48] would assume that it's going to, you know, continue through the process. Um,

[2:19:52] and then with respect to the Mount Pleasant case, that's a that's a

[2:19:56] fascinating case from a legal perspective because it was brought by

[2:20:00] three property owners as a private nuisance and negligence claim directly

[2:20:06] against Microsoft. And so that is very much in the early stages as well. So we

[2:20:12] don't know um how this this case is going to play out. And really the issue

[2:20:17] is does a private land owner have a private cause of action against a

[2:20:22] company for impacts of a development on their quality of life and does that rise

[2:20:28] to the level of negligence um that is compensible under the law. So that's a

[2:20:33] that's a very fascinating case. Fortunately uh the county uh the

[2:20:39] counties at in that area um have not been named in that lawsuit. I don't

[2:20:44] think uh well we'll wait to see if they are. There's no indication at this point

[2:20:48] that they will be named um because it is that private cause of action um on

[2:20:54] behalf of the landowner against the developer.

[2:20:57] Um and that case interestingly is in uh federal court. It was brought in the

[2:21:02] seventh circuit um the eastern district of Wisconsin of the seventh circuit. So

[2:21:07] we will keep monitoring that that case uh as well.

[2:21:12] Um, so all of those all of these issues really lead up to the question of what

[2:21:19] can Baron County do? You we talked about the statutory authority requirement. We

[2:21:25] talked about um, you know, some of the issues that arise and the pros and cons.

[2:21:30] So what can you do? Again, I think this is time number four. You can only do

[2:21:36] what the statutes allow you to do. you can only do what you have authorization

[2:21:40] to do under chapter 59 or any anywhere else under the law. Um and so what you

[2:21:47] um have in front of you um or what was in the agenda packet is that temporary

[2:21:54] moratorum on data center development. Um and there are certain restrictions in

[2:22:03] the Wisconsin statutes on whether a county may adopt a moratorum. Um

[2:22:09] development moratorum are addressed in uh chapter 66 66.102

[2:22:17] that interestingly accepts counties out. So we have a different playbook that we

[2:22:23] have to follow. Chapter 59 5969 I believe it's sub4 allows the county to

[2:22:30] adopt a moratorum if there are very uh limited if it falls within very limited

[2:22:38] parameters. Um and the the question or comment was made before that a moratorum

[2:22:45] may be appropriate but it absolutely should not be a tool to either kick the

[2:22:51] can down the road and decide to regulate later or to stop a development. And

[2:22:58] that's what um we see at times on the statewide level where a municipality um

[2:23:05] will adopt a moratorum in an attempt to get a developer to look elsewhere. And

[2:23:12] that's not specifically with respect to data centers. We see that with other

[2:23:16] types of development as well. But as legal counsel we would advise you that

[2:23:21] your um your any moratorum has to be very narrowly defined um and has to fall

[2:23:28] within your authority under chapter 59. So what you have in front of you is just

[2:23:35] that. Um so we um Andy and I developed this uh draft moratorum using your

[2:23:42] statute authority statutory authority in chapter 59 is the baseline and again

[2:23:48] because we can only regulate what we can under chapter 59. It is a zoning

[2:23:52] ordinance. Um and so therefore it would apply in areas of Baron County that are

[2:24:00] unincorporated. um and have uh have are subject to

[2:24:05] county zoning. Um so that's one really important distinction to make that

[2:24:11] should Baron County adopt a data center ordinance, it is not going to be a

[2:24:18] countywide ordinance per se, it is only going to apply in those unincorporated

[2:24:23] areas because again it's being adopted under your zoning authority.

[2:24:28] Um the second reason that's really important is because the county can or

[2:24:34] can only adopt a moratorum for a zoning matter. [snorts] There may be other um

[2:24:40] outlying uh exceptions to that rule. But again because your authority to adopt a

[2:24:46] moratorum comes from 5969 which is your zoning authority. Um, from our

[2:24:52] perspective, the easiest rule of thumb is a moratorum should only be adopted

[2:24:57] for a zoning regulation. And so the purpose of adopting a

[2:25:02] moratorum is really to put a pause to do the investigation, do the research, do

[2:25:11] the development and the drafting of a particular ordinance that meets the

[2:25:16] policy goals of the county. And based on the information in the packet, it's

[2:25:22] clear that the county has already done a lot of that research and a lot of that

[2:25:27] information gathering and even a lot of the investigation.

[2:25:31] But I think that that is what tees up your development moratorum for a uh a

[2:25:38] very strong position because you're not coming out and saying, you know what,

[2:25:42] we're starting 100% fresh. We've got to put a two-year time limit on this. We

[2:25:46] don't know anything. The fact that you've already researched these issues

[2:25:49] and you know what issues need to be addressed in greater detail I think

[2:25:54] really works in the county's benefit um and would be if I had to legally defend

[2:25:59] your development moratorium ordinance um that would be that would definitely be

[2:26:03] in the the pro category. Um one other quick final point on the uh

[2:26:10] moratorum that is an ordinance and so under the law um a a moratorum must be

[2:26:18] adopted by a county as an ordinance. So if you hear um you know other

[2:26:24] municipalities or counties throughout the state that are taking action on the

[2:26:30] development on a development moratorum or a data center moratorum and they're

[2:26:35] doing it by resolution uh they did not consult uh ais first um because for a

[2:26:41] county you must do it by resolution. We think that that's a very clear

[2:26:45] definitive answer in the law. Um, let's see. Trying to see. Oh, I also

[2:26:53] wanted to touch on two other issues. I might be backpedaling a little bit um to

[2:26:58] to circle back to what Mark talked about, but these are two issues that you

[2:27:02] can also address within the time frame of your development moratorium on data

[2:27:06] centers is the um the particular issues of citing that you do have authority to

[2:27:15] address under chapter 59. One of them being crop land and prime agricultural

[2:27:21] lands being used for development. Now, there are some statewide statutory

[2:27:26] restrictions that preempt county regulation. Um, but certainly the zoning

[2:27:33] categories of, you know, the prime egg land or the relationship between or any

[2:27:38] agreements between the county and dad cap for those enterprise areas. Those

[2:27:42] are certainly things that you can explore um as you develop an ordinance,

[2:27:47] a data center regulatory ordinance. Um and then again, other items that are are

[2:27:53] ripe for uh county regulation, things like uh noise suppression, um

[2:27:59] landscaping, BMS, um dust, light pollution. Um we often get the question

[2:28:06] of the size and the magnitude of some of these projects. Well, how can we I'll

[2:28:13] just say uh no one from Baron County has asked this question, but um how can we

[2:28:18] stop a you know this this million square foot project? And it's really hard to

[2:28:26] define a data center in such a way that we're talking just about a data center.

[2:28:32] And it comes back to the winning of or the choosing of winners and losers

[2:28:37] because in a lot of ways what's how is a data center different than an Amazon

[2:28:42] distribution center? Yes, many of the there may be the factors of water

[2:28:48] consumption or water usage, energy consumption, um things of that nature.

[2:28:53] But keep in mind those don't fall within the county's regulatory authority. So,

[2:28:58] we have to look to what is it that you're going to be regulating, how and

[2:29:04] what basis you have for those those whats um and then how we're going to

[2:29:08] build those into an ordinance. Um then with respect to local

[2:29:14] agreements, local agreements are really a fantastic tool for the county um

[2:29:20] because a you have statutory authority to do them. Um and uh they really truly

[2:29:26] are an armslength agreement. So when you are negotiating with a data center

[2:29:32] developer or a solar developer or other developers, you can ask for things that

[2:29:41] you may not have explicit statutory authority to regulate say within a

[2:29:46] conditional use process. So for example requiring an environmental study as we

[2:29:52] is the question was answered or asked before either it um an environmental

[2:29:57] assessment or an uh environmental impact statement. Those are the the threshold

[2:30:03] um environmental test used at the state level whenever there is a significant

[2:30:07] state action. You could potentially build into your

[2:30:12] local agreement that an environmental assessment must be completed. Um, now

[2:30:19] again, that's an armslength negotiation. So, the developers may say, "No, go

[2:30:23] pound sand. We're not doing that for the county." Um, but that is certainly

[2:30:27] something that you could ask for within the context of that local agreement. Um,

[2:30:33] other items that are that Andy and I feel are so important to flush out in

[2:30:38] those local agreements are things like emergency response particularly, you

[2:30:43] know, in your community when you have um a lot of voluntary volunteer um first

[2:30:48] responders. So those types of issues um training uh and then again roads. What

[2:30:55] are the impact on the roads? Not only for the well, mainly for the

[2:30:59] construction equipment coming in. You've got all these construction workers

[2:31:03] coming in. What are what's the impact on the roads or the traffic patterns? Um

[2:31:08] items like that may be addressed in a local agreement. Um, and then you know

[2:31:14] just again it can be uh I don't want to say a wish list because it certainly um

[2:31:19] should be reasonable but there are things that um counties have asked for

[2:31:25] within the context of a development agreement that you know off right away

[2:31:30] seem like kind of absurd. Um, for example, a county and local first

[2:31:35] responders may need a specific fire truck to be able to go up to a certain

[2:31:41] level to suppress um a fire that's created or that that the technology is

[2:31:47] required in order to properly suppress that fire. They need a really high boom

[2:31:53] lift. And so that's something in a local agreement that was worked in that the

[2:31:59] developer paid for. Again, it off the top of my head, it sounds it sounds

[2:32:04] pretty extreme like, hey, we get a new, you know, emergency response truck. Um,

[2:32:10] but again, because it was rooted in a justifiable basis, they needed to have

[2:32:15] that specialized equipment in order to perform their duty, um, i.e., um,

[2:32:21] provide emergency responses. Last item I wanted to touch on and of

[2:32:26] course and we'll open it up to questions. um with respect to the

[2:32:30] property tax issue um and the um the you know if a a data center developer

[2:32:38] um from what I what I understand just based on the comments it sounds like the

[2:32:43] data center would structure its transaction in such a way that it would

[2:32:47] just lease the property um and then therefore it wouldn't own the real

[2:32:53] property and so what would be taxed is the improvement movement that's built on

[2:33:00] that footprint. Um there was a recent change under act 12 um in the statutes

[2:33:06] that modified the taxation of certain personal properties um buildings,

[2:33:13] fixtures and improvements that were previously taxed as personal property.

[2:33:18] Now they are taxed as real property. And the the basis that um that I've

[2:33:24] encountered this is with respect to airport hangers. um because those sit on

[2:33:29] top of the land and then they are technically or they were categorized for

[2:33:33] tax purposes as personal property. Well, now they're being taxed as part of the

[2:33:39] real property. So Andy has been very involved with um many groups on uh

[2:33:45] throughout the state for trailer legislation to fix some of the errors

[2:33:50] and some of the complications in that bill. Uh but I just wanted you to be

[2:33:54] aware of that that um the cons if there is a you know a threshold concern of we

[2:34:00] don't want to have a data center come to Baron County because of this tax issue.

[2:34:04] There may be several other elements that need to be looked at in play and I'm not

[2:34:08] familiar with the the Dunn County example. Um so I can't speak to that but

[2:34:13] again just wanted to to mention Act 12 and uh the updates to the statutes on

[2:34:19] those property tax assessment issues. All right.

[2:34:24] » You ready for questions? >> Yeah. Absolutely.

[2:34:26] » So, we'll go we'll go this way. We'll go blue team first. You get to ask Rebecca

[2:34:31] questions. Uh we'll start with the blue team. Supervisor Turkot.

[2:34:37] » Uh again, thank you for uh taking the time to come up here. Uh my question

[2:34:42] would be to municipalities, townships that already have

[2:34:48] buildings of magnitude on them that um could be a commercial farm. Um can you

[2:34:56] put a moratorum to stop something else? And the other example would be Lakeland

[2:35:02] Township where the steel plant put up a ginormous building.

[2:35:09] Um can Can you now limit it or is it are they a

[2:35:16] Are you picking winners and losers? >> Um, excuse me. [clears throat] I might

[2:35:21] have to kick it over to your corporation council if I lost my voice. Excuse me.

[2:35:25] I'm so sorry. Um, can you help me understand the question a little bit

[2:35:29] better? Is it um whether the county could adopt

[2:35:35] a moratorum on redevelopment of certain properties like certain commercial

[2:35:41] properties >> if they're looking at putting um well

[2:35:44] some of the townships like Lakeland Township I believe passed a

[2:35:50] moratorum and um but they've allowed uh you know a

[2:35:56] few years ago um a a steel plant to put up a like a I think a 200,000 square

[2:36:03] foot manufacturing plant. Are are you now

[2:36:07] being able to put a moratorum in to to stifle something else?

[2:36:13] » Um, okay. I think I understand your question better. That's a great

[2:36:16] question. Excuse [clears throat] me. And I can't speak, you know, as obviously as

[2:36:20] legal counsel for the town and I haven't reviewed the town of Lakeland's

[2:36:24] moratorum ordinance. Um but what I can say is your or your development

[2:36:31] moratorum ordinance should be structured in such a way that it's very specific.

[2:36:37] So if I were to put my hat on as council for the town and we had that specific

[2:36:43] parcel at issue, I would if you call that parcel out, it would have to be in

[2:36:50] a very particularized manner. So you are not specifically targeting that parcel

[2:36:57] and you'd have to do some creative drafting which you know legally

[2:37:01] appropriate creative drafting to really hone in on what the specific issue is

[2:37:07] that needs to be further investigated and further studied during that term of

[2:37:12] the moratorum.

[2:37:17] » Other questions? Supervisor Oki. Right now there's four townships that

[2:37:24] have set up moratoriums and uh two that are not part of Baron

[2:37:29] County zoning. That would be the town of Lakeland and the town of Dover. There

[2:37:34] are two other ones that are part of county zoning. Town of Maple Plane and

[2:37:38] town of Doyle. How if we passed an moratorum like you have outlined here,

[2:37:45] what is the effect on the un you know basically unzone versus the zoned towns?

[2:37:51] » That is a great question. Um and to put it simply it the moratorum would not

[2:37:59] apply to the two towns that are not subject to county zoning. So, I think

[2:38:04] you said Lakeland and Dover,

[2:38:08] » which Supervisor Vaughn happens to be the chair of the town of Dover.

[2:38:13] » Awesome. [snorts] Um, so because those two townships have not opted into county

[2:38:19] zoning under 5969, because this development moratorum is a

[2:38:26] zoning ordinance, it would not apply in those two townships. Now if there are

[2:38:33] other townships that have adopted moratoria on data centers

[2:38:39] whether or how the structure of the application um really depends on the

[2:38:44] terms of what their moratorum says and I I apologize I haven't reviewed those so

[2:38:50] I can't speak to those um but again if the county were to proceed um with a

[2:38:57] moratorum as as set forth you know in your agenda packet

[2:39:02] again, it would apply um into those unincorporated areas that are subject to

[2:39:07] county zoning. Um and so even if one of those townships had adopted their own

[2:39:16] ortorium, um the counties would still apply.

[2:39:26] » Other questions? Supervisor Fawn,

[2:39:31] » you um reference the county's authority to regulate often. Does do you know is

[2:39:37] the town's authority to regulate similar items or are there differences in what

[2:39:42] they can regulate? >> Um

[2:39:45] there are generally there are differences um because well and it it

[2:39:49] also depends too on whether a town has adopted uh village zoning authority

[2:39:55] under chapter 60. Um so if a town has adopted village authority

[2:40:02] their their zoning powers um immediately become broader um and they fall within

[2:40:08] that township then falls within the municipal structure and municipal

[2:40:12] authority for zoning which is broader than a county's authority. Certainly

[2:40:19] » other questions. Seeing and hearing none we'll proceed on

[2:40:24] to the white team.

[2:40:30] Seeing and hearing none, over to the red team up. Supervisor Fowler,

[2:40:35] » thank you for being here and appreciate all the information. Just a question

[2:40:38] about the NDAs. Is there um a way a company then could work with the um

[2:40:46] economic development corporation for the in the county that's not regulated by

[2:40:53] the county? Did they work through the NDAs that way and then have the

[2:40:58] » Oh, I see. So, essentially get around the public records correct law.

[2:41:02] » Correct. >> Um potentially um certain entities

[2:41:09] um depending on how they are structured. So, certain economic development

[2:41:13] entities may also be subject to public records. Um so, for the first question

[2:41:18] would be is that entity um subject to chapter 19? um and therefore has to

[2:41:25] disclose public records. Let's say for argument's sake it's not. Um so then no

[2:41:31] it that entity would not have to disclose those documents as a public

[2:41:36] record. But then I would question um what to

[2:41:42] what extent would those documents be pertaining to the county's work? Because

[2:41:47] if the county was going to be taking action obviously those documents would

[2:41:52] need to come to the county at some point. Um so maybe early in the process

[2:41:57] there could be some avoidance of uh public records disclosure but certainly

[2:42:03] um you know moving forward the county would have to comply.

[2:42:10] » Other questions.

[2:42:14] » Supervisor Cook. >> Yes you are.

[2:42:21] So the moratorum the one that >> please use your mic please let me turn

[2:42:25] it on please. uh in the moratorum of this temporary moratorum that is

[2:42:30] presented here. >> Um and in reading that um the zoning

[2:42:34] committee would then two questions really the why

[2:42:39] would it not come out of the zoning committee but if the moratorum is passed

[2:42:44] um the zoning committee then goes to work on a full-fledged ordinance

[2:42:49] pertaining to data centers actually being built. Um so ye yes um if the

[2:42:56] moratorum is adopted uh the whomever is you know the appointed authorities

[2:43:01] within this ordinance are then directed by the county board to do this deeper

[2:43:07] investigate investigatory work. So it could be addressing all of the issues

[2:43:13] that you know many have raised via questions today. Um it may be looking at

[2:43:19] other sample ordinances. what do we want to use from other communities, other

[2:43:24] counties that have developed um data center regulatory ordinances? Um and so

[2:43:32] that's really oftentimes where the the bulk the meat of the work is done.

[2:43:37] Oftentimes it's through the um zoning and planning administrator um and then

[2:43:42] working with your county administrator as like a a team and then it's presented

[2:43:48] um to a zoning committee. Um, so it will will certainly go through or the issue

[2:43:54] of whether to adopt and with an eye pointing towards adopting some

[2:43:59] regulation there. There's a whole lot of work that goes into that.

[2:44:02] » And would those um public meetings be held through the zoning or through the

[2:44:07] county board? >> Um, those I believe would be the Well,

[2:44:12] you could structure it any way you want to,

[2:44:14] » but typically they would go through the zoning committee. Yeah, because the

[2:44:17] zoning committee is really going to be the, you know, the the committee of

[2:44:21] jurisdiction, if you will, because it's going to be a zoning ordinance. So, it

[2:44:25] would absolutely be appropriate to have them at the zoning committee.

[2:44:29] » May I jump in and get clarification because he's Supervisor Cook has kind of

[2:44:32] hit on something. So, is this I'm going to rephrase it from you that board

[2:44:36] supervisor that either talked to me or called me. So, is this a two-step

[2:44:40] process? And I'm trying to rephrase questions. So is it appropriate Rebecca

[2:44:46] the potentially the moratorum is enacted upon by the county board on October 19th

[2:44:52] that sets forth the the breathing space. So then is the mortori mor moratorum as

[2:44:57] you've printed and presented in the packet could be voted upon

[2:45:01] on October 19th then that gives the zoning committee the time to work on the

[2:45:05] details and then they bring back what goes into the zoning ordinance. Is that

[2:45:10] correct or is it what is that wrong? >> No, that's that's correct from the um

[2:45:17] steps 2 3 4 process. >> Okay.

[2:45:20] » Would you have the development moratorum come from your zoning committee as a

[2:45:26] recommendation then go to the county board in October?

[2:45:30] » I'm not getting that sense from the board members that have talked to me.

[2:45:33] they'd like to do it where okay we'll put the moratorum in place then refer it

[2:45:37] to the zoning committee and give them the moratorum time to work on whatever

[2:45:41] and then bring back all their work back to the county board that allows the our

[2:45:45] new land services director to be involved to do the research to publicly

[2:45:49] post the public mo meeting notices so people can come talk to that group of

[2:45:53] five that way we're building we're building to get to the endgame which is

[2:45:58] you know some of the controls you're talking about that's the feedback I've

[2:46:01] gotten from the three or four boards that thought to me

[2:46:04] » and that is absolutely what I would recommend for that that endgame, you

[2:46:08] know, that end point >> ordinance. Absolutely.

[2:46:11] » Reser Cook, does that help kind of explain some of the questions you

[2:46:14] » Well, I understand the process. I just want to clarify that should be the

[2:46:18] process >> that

[2:46:21] once you have a [clears throat] need uh for an ordinance. Yes.

[2:46:27] » Oh, can I ask something about that? You know,

[2:46:32] » right? Let's just let's just let Supervisor Cook has the floor. I'm just

[2:46:36] asking Supervisor Cook. >> No, no. I I would I would give him

[2:46:39] leeway. >> All right. You'll yield? Yes. Okay.

[2:46:42] Supervisor Cook, excuse me. Supervisor Cook is yielding the floor to Supervisor

[2:46:47] Oki. So, I'm going to recognize Supervisor Oki at this time.

[2:46:50] » Okay. So, you know, again, I'm trying to get us as supervisors educated and do

[2:46:56] what's right for Baron County. Today was a very good start for that. I believe

[2:47:00] the 29th is and any work we want to do on our own. Um but if it does come to

[2:47:07] let's just say I want to wait at least until October's board meeting which I

[2:47:12] think you said is whatever >> October 19th this built room.

[2:47:16] » If if you know we'll be voting let's just say on whether we want to have a

[2:47:20] moratorum or not. There may be some of us that say, "Geez, based on the

[2:47:24] information, I think we ought to explore data centers." Then there may be

[2:47:29] somebody that said, "I don't ever want a data center here, but I got to be

[2:47:34] careful how we structure the moratorium that really realizing it's just

[2:47:38] temporary." And then there may be the ones in the middle that say, "Yeah,

[2:47:42] let's really do the moratorium to do do factf finding more than we have

[2:47:46] already." Does it? And it has to go through zoning. But does it have to

[2:47:52] could there be a zoning looking at it and an ad hoc committee to do all the

[2:47:57] factf finding or does it have to be the zoning?

[2:48:00] » No, you can certainly have if if you wanted to have a specific ad hoc

[2:48:04] committee overseeing that investigation um you could do so. I I'm just thinking

[2:48:11] just and please don't take anything personal anybody but you know Mike Judy

[2:48:17] Ellie local emergency planning committer he might be very helpful on this Fran

[2:48:23] who knows this stuff Randy it might come to you know I I like

[2:48:28] your intelligence but you know you are the board president of of a utility

[2:48:33] there could be somebody saying you shouldn't be on that you know so I I'm

[2:48:37] just I I'm I'm just throwing this out. Please don't, you know, these are things

[2:48:41] I I want to just talk about here when we get down the road. So, I'm just giving

[2:48:47] you things to think about. >> Okay, Supervisor Cook, you have the

[2:48:50] floor. >> I wish I went to relinquish any time to

[2:48:53] chairman. >> Well, sir, the floor is yours, sir.

[2:48:56] » No, I'm good till the next round. >> Okay, so he's yielded the floor,

[2:49:00] supervisor. So on on that point I mean when you consider the moratorum

[2:49:07] uh that second part is important the the second part being and then we're going

[2:49:13] to examine um you know do the work on what happens after the moratorum because

[2:49:19] if you don't do the second part you don't have a moratorum you just have a

[2:49:23] ban >> right

[2:49:24] » and that's much different and that's where we run into potential trouble. So

[2:49:29] that second part really is important. So if you're going to if you're going to do

[2:49:33] that that you need to do the second part too.

[2:49:38] » In fact the first part gives you time to do the second part. It's the only reason

[2:49:42] that I would even consider doing it. Right. But yeah

[2:49:45] » and supervisor Cook and in in reference to your comments to me before we have

[2:49:49] not had public comment yet. It's becumbent upon ourselves to hear from

[2:49:53] the public before we put this moratorum in place.

[2:49:56] » I agree. Supervisor Anderson, you have the floor.

[2:49:59] » I do. Um, thank you. Um, you mentioned something about land that's leased.

[2:50:06] » So, would the property owner still be responsible for property taxes if it's

[2:50:11] leased? >> Sure.

[2:50:14] » Yes. Um, uh, depending on the terms of the lease

[2:50:21] agreement. Um but a an owner certainly is still responsible for uh or to ensure

[2:50:28] that property taxes are paid. Whether that obligation is shifted to you know

[2:50:33] the lei um it depends on the structure of the the lease agreement

[2:50:38] » and then would it change what what it falls into like a different because

[2:50:44] there the data center is there now it's not a land would it change the

[2:50:50] » what would be right like the >> classification

[2:50:53] » right yes >> I would yes I would think so

[2:50:55] » okay thanks >> yeah that it's it's I mean it's very

[2:50:58] simple way it's kind of like in apartment building, the apartment

[2:51:02] building owner owes property taxes. I mean, a person who leases the apartment,

[2:51:07] it's paid in their rent, but if they move out or don't pay the rent,

[2:51:10] apartment building owner still has to pay taxes. Kind of the same thing.

[2:51:14] » All right, supervisor efforts, you have the floor.

[2:51:20] But then unless the um law is changed, if if it's the trailers or the the

[2:51:28] shipping containers that have the that's the improvement on it, there wouldn't be

[2:51:33] taxes paid on the improvements, just the land. No. Um right now,

[2:51:38] » if it's leased, >> well, right now under act 12, if it is a

[2:51:44] meets the definition of a building improvement or fixture. So again, I I

[2:51:48] like the airport hanger example. You have a structure that is placed on a

[2:51:54] footprint, but that footprint of land is leased. That structure, i.e. the airport

[2:52:01] hanger, is then taxed as real property. >> Okay. So again, I you know, depending on

[2:52:08] what the data center development looks like, um I would anticipate that

[2:52:14] whatever is built is going to certainly meet the definition of a building

[2:52:18] improvement um or fixture. Okay.

[2:52:21] » So it would fall within those parameters of act 12.

[2:52:24] » A question if I may interrupt for Mr. Okonnell and and you Rebecca, let's

[2:52:29] let's fair it out. This question I think as keeps coming up. If we follow this

[2:52:33] two-step process, the moratorum, and then we refer it, would it not incumbent

[2:52:38] be upon the subcommittee of this assigned to to get somebody from the

[2:52:41] department of revenue and say, tell us what happens. Do we are we going to get

[2:52:45] revenue if it's just lease hold or it's movable? Tell us that.

[2:52:49] » Absolutely. >> And explain that to us because that

[2:52:51] should come back to the county board ultimately because they set the budget.

[2:52:55] It's not a committee that sets the budget. The county board sets correct

[2:52:58] under 6590. It's the board sets the budget. They should know that because

[2:53:02] you could have 10 movable data centers and you get zero. Why would a board vote

[2:53:08] for that, >> right?

[2:53:09] » Okay. >> No, absolutely. That's the kind of issue

[2:53:11] that should be talked about during the investigation period.

[2:53:14] » I agree. If you move down that path, then you definitely want to get a

[2:53:18] definitive answer from the Department of Revenue.

[2:53:21] » And and I I think that's where just to clarify and so the board knows, I think

[2:53:25] that's where >> [clears throat]

[2:53:26] » uh our new land services director, Mr. Nicole, myself could work together or if

[2:53:30] we have a finance director Con are that is that then not incumbent upon staff to

[2:53:35] research and present back then the committee makes recommendations and

[2:53:39] decisions. >> Yes. And I would if you're asking me.

[2:53:45] » Yeah. Yes. Yes. And from where I would also suggest that if you were in

[2:53:50] conversations um

[2:53:54] it would your economic development person let's say would be saying to

[2:53:58] potential developers these are the kinds of data centers we're interested in. not

[2:54:05] the mobile type develop uh mo um data center that does not provide benefit to

[2:54:11] the local jurisdictions but a permanent data center that provides long-term

[2:54:17] » uh corporate good corporate citizen benefits to the citizens of Baron Baron

[2:54:22] County >> and employment in that

[2:54:23] » and employment that that would be want to make that quite clear.

[2:54:26] » All right, we're still on the red group. So, Supervisor Cook, let me go to

[2:54:29] Supervisor Gors and then I'll come back to you. Supervisor Gors. Uh yeah. Um if

[2:54:34] there um a moratorum is voted on or put in place, is there a set time limit or

[2:54:41] or do we sit make the time limit? >> Right now in the draft there is a time

[2:54:47] limit. >> Okay.

[2:54:49] » Yes, there are two. There's three different spots. Supervisor Gors, I

[2:54:53] modified the first one to be until 12:31 at 2027. That's feedback that I received

[2:54:58] from board members saying I don't like 9 months. I don't think that's enough time

[2:55:02] and some board members have said to me I want a definite date when it ends. Now

[2:55:06] it can be extended because is it 9 months from enactment? Is it 9 months

[2:55:10] plus 10 days for publication? That's why I inserted and so we could modify you

[2:55:15] know we could whatever time the the lawyers recommend I guess but that's why

[2:55:20] I did that. >> And I would say from a recommendation

[2:55:23] standpoint um certainly be realistic um but keep it as concise as possible i.e.

[2:55:30] be as short as possible. But again, you've got the work that you've already

[2:55:35] identified today. Um, and the work that staff has already identified as

[2:55:40] potential issues, you know, as a road map of the work that

[2:55:44] would be done during your moratorum. So, I think, you know, that the date that

[2:55:50] um, Mr. French put out um, is is legally defensible. Um, but again, be very

[2:55:57] careful if you go longer. Um, because then a court may construe that as simply

[2:56:03] an attempt to a ban, a two-year ban rather than, um, a true good faith

[2:56:09] investigation of how to develop an ordinance.

[2:56:12] » Supervisor Cook, you had another question.

[2:56:14] » Um, well, again, uh, our temporary moratorium, if we choose to go that

[2:56:18] route, should only be given us the time to actually put together a moratorum. If

[2:56:22] that takes more than >> an ordinance, excuse me, zoning

[2:56:26] ordinance, then that we can have a discussion about. But just to the point

[2:56:30] of this purchase to put it to dead to bed, uh, all six have are purchased by

[2:56:36] the company Mount Pleasant. Um, the village sold 350 acres, the initial 350

[2:56:42] acres of Microsoft for $50 million. I think that had an impact on their

[2:56:46] property taxes in that village. uh and they have subsequently purchased another

[2:56:51] 2,000 acres around that site. So, they are going to pay property taxes. Um

[2:56:57] unless you create some type of district that allows them not to for a certain

[2:57:01] period of time, they are in fact going to purchase the land. Um these trailers,

[2:57:06] um these little cargo containers, China boxes if you will, um are not not quote

[2:57:11] unquote the data centers we're talking about. And and in fact, some moratoriums

[2:57:16] actually um if you exceed a certain size, the

[2:57:21] moratorum applies. Um I think Madison's, if I looked at it right, if it was under

[2:57:26] 20,000 square feet, then it was not impacted, which is about the size of

[2:57:31] Oaklair that they're talking about um the data center in Oaklair.

[2:57:34] » All right, we're going to go on. Go ahead.

[2:57:36] » Can I just speak to that? Um just briefly the the restriction on a

[2:57:42] development moratorum that's in chapter 66 again that doesn't apply to counties

[2:57:47] and so the rules that a [clears throat] city village town may adopt for a

[2:57:53] development moratorum do not apply to the county um to the extent that you are

[2:58:00] not referenced in chapter 66. Um however again you do have the authority in

[2:58:05] chapter 59 and then there's very specific parameters of how you may adopt

[2:58:12] that moratorum and so those are built into this draft that you have in front

[2:58:17] of you. U but again it's a it's a delicate balance between the statutory

[2:58:22] authority statutory restrictions and then the case law that accompanies those

[2:58:26] statutes. >> All right we're going to bump over to

[2:58:28] the blue team. Any questions? All right, Supervisor Wel,

[2:58:34] » um, I'm going to go back to the leverage issue. Uh, at what point you said that

[2:58:39] you're looking at 2027 December until 2027?

[2:58:45] um what is the shortest amount of time that we would need to do that sort of

[2:58:50] investigating that we need to do the factf finding so that we can still have

[2:58:55] advantage like you said before people start just welcoming these things in and

[2:59:00] then we're out and maybe that question is for you Jeff

[2:59:04] or Louie >> that's a question for Ben how long would

[2:59:08] we have to have a public notice even to turn I mean how much time do you want

[2:59:13] Would you please come to a mic to maybe use Supervisor Cousix and mic and turn

[2:59:18] that on please?

[2:59:24] [clears throat] >> So yeah on once the the wording on the

[2:59:28] moratorum is is determined that it's sufficient we would need it would be a

[2:59:34] class two notification. We would need the the two weeks we would need two

[2:59:37] weeks of notice in in local papers to let the constituents know and have the

[2:59:42] public hearing. So, as we sit right now, um, October

[2:59:49] would be pushing it, but I think we could we could get it done.

[2:59:53] » I guess to clarify, I meant the moratorum being shorter like six or nine

[2:59:57] months. >> Certainly, we could do it to do shorter.

[2:59:59] We if he's willing to kind of drop some of his other work. I mean, he's new in

[3:00:03] his job and he's learning his job, you know, and how fast can that committee I

[3:00:07] mean, if that committee would want to meet every week on a Tuesday and go chug

[3:00:11] through it, hooray. And I can assure you I have I have done my due diligence. I'm

[3:00:16] » oh >> for near every day I'm I'm I'm digging

[3:00:19] through recent updates on on data centers and where most uh communities

[3:00:25] stand within the state. I've dug into Pennsylvania. It's a hot topic issue in

[3:00:29] P Pennsylvania as well. And I know we've discussed West Virginia. Um they're

[3:00:35] diving in head first. I mean they want all the data center revenue they can

[3:00:39] get. So it's a tight rope that we walk here um in terms of restricting versus

[3:00:43] protecting our constituents. >> Right.

[3:00:46] » If we do enact a moratorum that's good through December 31st of 2027

[3:00:52] and we come to an agreement before that once we enact an ordinance against or

[3:00:58] not against but regulating data centers we can drop the moratorium.

[3:01:02] » I see. Okay. Thank you. I can partially uh answer that or maybe add some

[3:01:07] information for you, Supervisor Wel. Um on Friday, last week, uh the Wisconsin

[3:01:14] Counties Association Board of Directors did take up this issue and passed a um a

[3:01:21] template ordinance uh for consideration by counties, which

[3:01:26] will be released tomorrow. So, that'll be available within 24 hours. lots of

[3:01:33] flexibility in that ordinance. This is not a recommendation. It is a a template

[3:01:40] for counties to start if they wanted to move forward. They don't have to. They

[3:01:45] may not want to. That's fine. But we had so many requests from counties for a a

[3:01:50] starting place. So we worked with all sorts of parties on this issue and a

[3:01:56] tollless law to put together a template uh ordinance that that people like Ben

[3:02:04] can start with and and committees could start with as they move about this

[3:02:08] process. That might be uh that's I guess some kind of an answer to say um it may

[3:02:16] not take as long as you might think uh if you have a starting place so you

[3:02:21] don't have to do a lot of work in advance but maybe it's not really fill

[3:02:25] in the blank but it's address certain issues because there's many options to

[3:02:30] to look at but that might be a place that you could start.

[3:02:35] If I can just follow up, when you when it that that template is released, you

[3:02:40] will see a whole lot of fill in the blanks. Um, and that is that's

[3:02:45] intentional because it is to be customized by each county. Um, but

[3:02:50] again, it as Mark said, it's it's intended to be a starting point. Um, and

[3:02:56] then certainly all of the unique topics that we've talked about today, um, those

[3:03:01] can be added to the template and you can really customize it and make it your

[3:03:06] own. Um, but it again, it's just intended to give counties a jump start

[3:03:10] and a a launching off point um, for all of those particular considerations and

[3:03:16] again those considerations that do indeed fall within your authority.

[3:03:21] » Supervisor Vaughn, you ask a question, I'll you have the you have the floor.

[3:03:25] Thank you. Uh so in the packet where we're looking at the actual moratorum

[3:03:30] um on page three it has two different dates. It has the ninemonth and then it

[3:03:34] has the one that we mentioned at the end of 2027. So is that for two different

[3:03:39] things? Are we just not sure on the time frame?

[3:03:42] » I did I want to I I did that as a placeholder because of all the

[3:03:46] information I was getting before talking to Cherokei about having this meeting. I

[3:03:50] had to I did that supervisor vaugh so that I reminded myself if I got this

[3:03:54] question why I put that in there and I put it in there because I've been asked

[3:03:59] is nine months too long? Is it too short? And I've also had some people and

[3:04:04] citizens and supervisors say I'd rather have a definitive date when it ends.

[3:04:09] That's that's it. That's why there's three different in three different

[3:04:12] spots. It's two different places. That's why I did that.

[3:04:16] You make it you can make a decision. Absolutely.

[3:04:20] Faster is better with me, too. I just didn't You know, Ben and I have been

[3:04:23] talking about this and we're just trying to get you to a a date here. All right,

[3:04:28] blue team. Anything else?

[3:04:32] Supervisor Wentz? >> Yeah, I'll take a stab at wording this

[3:04:36] so it makes sense. Um, is there a sense of

[3:04:41] um [clears throat] whether or not some of the town or village moratoriums are

[3:04:48] intended more to ban data center development or to allow time as we've

[3:04:54] been talking about here at the county level to develop their own local

[3:04:58] ordinances. I I mean I I really don't have an idea of whether or not Lakeland

[3:05:03] or Doyle or Dover or wherever are trying to ban data centers outright

[3:05:09] by imposing moratoriums or if they're doing the same thing we

[3:05:13] are or are expected to do. >> It's it's both. It's both. I mean some

[3:05:18] are intended to provide breathing space and time and others

[3:05:24] are trying to be clever and just say moratorium but they what they really

[3:05:28] mean is ban. That's I mean then and there are developers that are going to

[3:05:34] look at those and say we we never intended to even talk with you anyway so

[3:05:39] they'll just it doesn't matter. But uh if they did intend to

[3:05:45] uh there may be court issues uh because you you you shouldn't be passing a

[3:05:49] moratorum if your intention is to ban it. That's not good public policy and

[3:05:54] it's going to get you in trouble. So but it the answer is both. And not just in

[3:05:58] Wisconsin, by the way. It's all over the country. There have been uh public

[3:06:02] entities that have passed moratoria to um to provide um time to think and

[3:06:08] breathing space. And there have been those all over the country that have

[3:06:12] passed moratoriums to um just to ban it and that will sometimes cause trouble,

[3:06:20] get them in trouble. >> Rebecca, anything to add to that?

[3:06:23] » No. >> Okay. Again, blue team, you're you're

[3:06:27] up. Any questions from any other member of the blue team?

[3:06:33] Hearing none. White team questions

[3:06:39] hearing none. Red team questions. Supervisor Cook, I see you raising your

[3:06:44] hand. >> Oh, I hate to ask so many questions, but

[3:06:46] in this moratorum or excuse me, in our zoning ordinance, then we that is where

[3:06:52] we would address things like water consumption.

[3:06:59] » Well, water. >> No. Well, when I say water for let me

[3:07:03] not water consumption the type of cooling

[3:07:07] um that would that we would like for example a closed loop or air

[3:07:14] can can >> I would say just on a very high level

[3:07:19] that is not something that would be appropriately incorporated into your

[3:07:24] zoning ordinance. >> Okay. And those are the questions that I

[3:07:26] would have as a member of the zoning committee

[3:07:28] » who I may not I may get thrown off because

[3:07:32] » um >> I I supply electricity to your home. Uh

[3:07:38] [laughter] anyway, I I guess that's where I'm

[3:07:43] coming from is just what are the what things can we look at in terms of you

[3:07:47] know obviously the impact on our roads um those types of things who would who

[3:07:51] would pay for that? Obviously the I think the utility in terms of 100% of

[3:07:55] the infrastructure cost that's already going to be solved. That's not the but

[3:07:58] that's the questions or the types of questions I would hope that we would be

[3:08:01] able to have a framework for the ordinance that the zoning committee

[3:08:05] would draft. >> Yeah. And to think of it, um, you know,

[3:08:10] I think as Mark alluded to, you know, any other building, um, so if you had a,

[3:08:16] um, a Walmart development come forward, what is it in your zoning code that you

[3:08:22] would be you would be applying? It would be things the sighting factors, so size,

[3:08:28] noise, traffic, um you know, other other impacts that fall under the zoning

[3:08:35] committee's authority. You'd be looking at those same items to build into the

[3:08:40] data center regulatory ordinance. Um things like water consumption or the the

[3:08:46] technology for >> that they would use. Not necessarily how

[3:08:49] much they would use, but >> yeah, that is something you could ask

[3:08:52] for in a local agreement. Um because again a local agreement is a armslength

[3:08:58] transaction. Um and the developer may say yeah we're going to have a closed

[3:09:03] loop and we're fine with that. The issue becomes if they say no you can't

[3:09:09] prohibit the project from moving forward because again you don't have statutory

[3:09:13] authority to regulate the type of water system in the business.

[3:09:20] But again, within the context of the local agreement, you can ask for that.

[3:09:27] You can ask for things that you may not have statutory authority to ask for

[3:09:32] in a local agreement, which again is the beauty of those local agreements.

[3:09:37] » I guess if I was going to put it in plain English, um when you have

[3:09:41] authority to if it's something the county has authority over, okay, you can

[3:09:45] put that in an ordinance, right? But if it's if you're going to tell a a

[3:09:49] business or an individual how they're going to run their business or run their

[3:09:55] life, you probably can't put that in an ordinance. I mean, you can't tell

[3:09:59] somebody where they're going to put their cash registers or that they can

[3:10:02] only use credit cards and not cash. That's how they run their business. You

[3:10:05] can't tell them that. You can't tell people when they're going to wake up in

[3:10:09] the morning or that they can't use alarm clocks. I mean, that's how they run

[3:10:11] their life. You can't tell them that. So, but if you if the the county has

[3:10:14] authority over it, fine. Then you can put in an ordinance. But if it's

[3:10:19] something about how they run their operation,

[3:10:22] that's outside of our ability. >> Okay. Supervisor efforts.

[3:10:29] So going off the water issue, if we can't regulate the technology that they

[3:10:35] use, so if there's waste water, we have authority on how they get rid of it or

[3:10:42] what they do with it. Is that part of the environmental study or

[3:10:46] um the assessment? Where does that come in? So there's not like hot water being

[3:10:53] put wherever they want. >> Yeah, that's a that's a good question.

[3:10:56] And that comes up um when there's a non-closed loop or not not a um uh dry

[3:11:04] cooling method >> when it's a uh evaporative method um the

[3:11:10] municipal water supply or water treatment uh comes into play and the

[3:11:15] question there is does can the municipal water treatment facility handle the

[3:11:19] volume of water >> or if it's in a I'm sorry if it's in a

[3:11:23] township I mean we have wells we have septic you know we have that sort of

[3:11:27] thing. We don't have water treatment. We have you know

[3:11:31] » Yeah. >> So

[3:11:33] » the question again will be can it can it be handled and if it that that is

[3:11:38] definitely a question. Uh and so if it's going to be in a non-municipal water

[3:11:43] treatment operation then there's going to have to be some sort of water

[3:11:48] treatment probably on site that is solely created for that data center

[3:11:54] operation. Um if it's if it's if it's going to be

[3:11:59] um adjacent to a municipal um governmental geographic boundary then

[3:12:05] there may be um infrastructure that needs to be built to connect it to the

[3:12:10] water municipal waters um treatment facility and then the question would be

[3:12:14] can the municipal water facility handle it and that has to be worked out in

[3:12:18] advance. It's not simply you can't just build the structure and then say uh

[3:12:24] municipality you have to handle it. I don't care if you have enough capacity

[3:12:28] or not you have to handle it. That's not how it works. Uh there there has to be

[3:12:32] an agreement that it can be handled. So um that is not one of those where you

[3:12:38] know too bad for the municipality they have to take care of. No, it has to be

[3:12:42] that has to be addressed in advance. If it's uh outside of a municipal water

[3:12:47] treatment facility, there's going to have to be a treatment facility on site.

[3:12:50] Or if it's a dry cooling, that's an entirely different operation.

[3:12:55] Supervisor Patty Anderson, you have the floor.

[3:12:58] » Do you have a question? Okay, we're done with the red. We're we're back to blue.

[3:13:02] Blue team, you got a question. Supervisor Turkot,

[3:13:07] » is there at some point where the DNR is going to have someness if it's in a

[3:13:12] township for storm water retention? I I would think with water discharging

[3:13:19] if it was the evaporation. So, I mean, they're going to have a say in it when

[3:13:26] all is said and done. >> Yes. Yeah. DNR is going to have

[3:13:30] something to say about it. Sure. Yeah. There'll be likely some water permits of

[3:13:34] some sort. Yes. >> Yep. Supervisor Oki, you have the floor.

[3:13:38] In the templates that WCA developed for us to use and modify the local

[3:13:44] agreement, is that similar to the JDA like we have in the solar farms. So

[3:13:49] that's where we could put in uh the type of water cooling system we want. And if

[3:13:55] it didn't happen, we could get say no at that point in time.

[3:14:00] » Um yes. So, the the local agreement template um that was approved by the WCA

[3:14:07] board is exactly that. It's a template. I will say it is based on Baron County's

[3:14:13] Maple Grove Solar. So, I always give kudos to Baron County whenever I can

[3:14:18] because that was a um that really became a a model project um

[3:14:25] for negotiation of of agreements. Um so uh it was specifically intended to apply

[3:14:32] to renewable energy pro projects. However, it can certainly be used um for

[3:14:40] a data center or even another large scale um because it addresses impacts of

[3:14:46] a a larger scale project um but of course needs to be um customized uh for

[3:14:54] whatever the project issue is. Okay. Thanks.

[3:14:58] » All right, blue team. Any more questions?

[3:15:02] White team questions? Supervisor Klick. >> So,

[3:15:08] I guess I have two questions. You you decide if you allow me to ask both of

[3:15:11] them. If um a site is proposed by someone and it gets annexed into a

[3:15:19] municipality, county ordinances would go away.

[3:15:24] Correct. on that project

[3:15:28] » to the extent that the county doesn't have inherent jurisdiction. So for

[3:15:33] example, Shorland County always has Shorland jurisdiction. So Shorland

[3:15:37] ordinances would still apply. >> But if it was annexed into a city,

[3:15:42] » then zoning would not >> there's no zoning. A zoning ordinance

[3:15:45] that tries to limit >> a data center might become null and void

[3:15:51] » because it's now in a municipality. >> Correct. Okay. The other thought I have

[3:15:56] is is that as we have all different opinions as 29 people and we all might

[3:16:03] want more things into a JDA or a joint developers agreement or an NDA or

[3:16:08] whatever you want to call it. Is the county in a spot where we can

[3:16:13] have a recommended things that we would like to see in one of those because we

[3:16:19] may not be the ones negotiating the JDA. it very well could be the municipality.

[3:16:26] So, I mean, instead of trying to tie it all into an ordinance that really isn't

[3:16:30] legally allowable, we can't really develop a a checklist

[3:16:36] that says, "No, any JDA has to have this, has to have this, has to have

[3:16:40] this," because we might walk away from a negotiation or get eliminated from a

[3:16:44] negotiation. But, can we have a a suggested list from a county board?

[3:16:51] Yes, you could use the template that they've developed that's going to be

[3:16:54] released in the next 24 hours. That could be your that could be your

[3:16:57] checklist. I also got to say, Supervisor Cusk, um I would the

[3:17:03] city administrators I worked with, they'd be very excited for us to do some

[3:17:07] of the leg work for them and have a model template ordinance for them

[3:17:10] because they're not going to have the they're not going to want to uh take all

[3:17:15] the heat. You know, if we have something that they can use, they'd probably be a

[3:17:18] lot more appreciative. And I believe we can sometimes oppose annexation or write

[3:17:22] a letter against annexation, can't we? I mean, if there's a specific purpose, if

[3:17:26] they're doing it to thwart our ordinance, we should probably write a

[3:17:29] letter against the annexation. >> There is an opportunity for you to

[3:17:34] object or be involved in that. >> And if they put it in the tiff or tid,

[3:17:37] we can vote against the tiff. And >> so there are some there are some ways to

[3:17:42] at least try. So m in the end is this is the sighting of a facility of this sort

[3:17:51] um a county issue a city village or town issue? It's more of a city village or

[3:17:58] town issue than it is a county issue. That that is that is just the fact of

[3:18:03] the matter. But it would it behooves um a developer to try to have a good

[3:18:10] relationship with all governing jurisdictions

[3:18:15] um regardless of who's officially or formally in charge. So um

[3:18:23] there might be an annexation. That's true. Uh this the city might be the

[3:18:29] might be the lead on a on a particular project. That may be true too. Um but a

[3:18:35] developer a smart developer will want to have buyin from all the governing

[3:18:40] jurisdictions uh to have peace and harmony to the

[3:18:45] extent possible with not only the governing jurisdictions but with the

[3:18:49] citizenry of the area and how they will how will they get that joint development

[3:18:55] agreement uh full explanation full disclosure

[3:19:00] um transparency that's how they will get So the the wise developers know that and

[3:19:08] I we're finding that out more and more for with uh placements of data centers

[3:19:15] that have been successful. So I I would say you will definitely have a seat at

[3:19:19] the table. >> May I chime in? Rebecca, do you do you

[3:19:22] want to respond? I just thought something else. Supervisor Gick asked a

[3:19:25] very good question. I would say to supervisor Guslick that if what you

[3:19:29] hypothesize or hypothetically we'd have we'd have control over the emergency

[3:19:34] response plan because we're going to be the so that would have to go through the

[3:19:37] LEAPC. So we'd have some control there and that's where we'd want to go back to

[3:19:41] Mr. Okonnell's comments that we'd want buyin. We want that we want that

[3:19:45] developer to be a partner and if you know and then if they're going to do

[3:19:48] mobile battery storage or they're going to do something like that our our

[3:19:52] training for the local fire departments then comes into place. So, yes, we may

[3:19:56] not get it on zoning, but we might get it on ERP, which again goes back to

[3:20:01] charge on this road. I'd love to see us have an ERP ordinance, too, someday

[3:20:04] because that gives us a little more teeth. It's all these things building on

[3:20:08] one another. Well, I I I don't want to open up another hour of conversation,

[3:20:12] but on battery energy storage systems, we are in a we are in a conversation

[3:20:18] with the public service commission where uh there is a I'm not sure if it's if

[3:20:23] you'd actually call it a difference of opinion, but if battery en energy

[3:20:27] storage systems are on the same uh geographic footprint as a as a energy

[3:20:36] generation facility then clearly it's under the

[3:20:41] public service commission's jurisdiction. But if it is separate from

[3:20:45] that then uh it is our opinion in the opinion of to atlasist law that that is

[3:20:51] not under the jurisdiction of the public service commission that falls under uh

[3:20:56] local government zoning and we have a a case in Kenosha County where we are in

[3:21:02] conversation to sort to clarify this. So that is uh a separate issue and to Mr.

[3:21:08] French's point we care an awful lot about that. Uh now legislature may

[3:21:13] change that in the future and and public service commission want might want

[3:21:17] jurisdiction but until the law is changed uh to us it's quite clear uh

[3:21:23] that is not the jurisdiction of public service commission but rather the

[3:21:26] jurisdiction of local governmental entities. Uh and so we care about that

[3:21:31] element of of energy and battery storage systems until such time as as something

[3:21:37] changes. Very good. Other questions from white

[3:21:40] team members, red team,

[3:21:45] I hear none. Blue team questions. Back to white. Back to red. Okay. Any

[3:21:53] just want to make sure now any further questions before we then get into the

[3:21:58] next kind of item of business here and that's a rise and report which I'm going

[3:22:03] to if there's nothing so I will go back then to Robert's rules of order. So

[3:22:07] exiting and reporting back to the assembly. This is where the

[3:22:12] and it's in our it's in our agenda. We've asked uh we're on 6E now. We've

[3:22:17] finished with 6D questions from board members. a motion to rise and report.

[3:22:21] And this is a possible action item because when we exit the committee of

[3:22:27] the whole, the committee of the whole should report

[3:22:31] back to the assembly, which is the county board, what you've discussed or

[3:22:36] more importantly, what's the action that you would like to take.

[3:22:42] I am not I'm going to throw out one of the there's many that could happen but

[3:22:47] here is one of the rise in reports that could be stated could state that the

[3:22:52] Baron County Board of Supervisors meeting as a committee of the whole

[3:22:55] recommends the moratorum ordinance on data centers be placed upon the agenda

[3:23:00] for consideration at the October 19th 5:00 p.m. county board meeting. That

[3:23:04] would then put the moratorum in front of the assembly which is the county board

[3:23:08] to vote up and down. It would allow people to go to the meeting on the 29th

[3:23:13] and learn more. And also what's been brought up and I'm going to reach out to

[3:23:17] the local electric co-op because there's a very good question. This opened the

[3:23:20] door. Where's the power supply? I mean, if the power supply if the if the power

[3:23:26] supply is here and we're it's here and we're gener this is the maximum and

[3:23:31] we're using here, we don't have any room. Explain to us from the local co-op

[3:23:35] standpoint representing most of Baron County what that could mean. So that

[3:23:39] could be should be a question that really in my opinion as county

[3:23:42] administrator should be answered on the 19th. So that's where we're at. Took a

[3:23:47] little took a little detour there. So then once there's a rise and report we

[3:23:51] end uh then there is we reconvene. Mr. Koki takes the chair. I somebody would

[3:23:58] read to him what the rise and report is and then there'd be a motion to adopt

[3:24:03] that and then we adjourn. So, what's the will of the the county board or the will

[3:24:07] of the of the committee the whole? No, it's got to be a formal motion and

[3:24:13] it can be something else and it can be amended.

[3:24:16] Well, I think Jeff, what you what you read there in terms of coming out of um

[3:24:22] » committee the whole >> committee as a whole uh and recommending

[3:24:26] that this be put on the agenda um to be voted on up or down um gives us

[3:24:32] not only o until October, it gives us September

[3:24:37] um to also have some discussion among the board. Um, and it gives our I think

[3:24:44] it gives our zoning administrator uh a little time to get some footed footing

[3:24:49] under him uh and his staff to to give us an idea about how long uh it would take

[3:24:58] um to put a zoning ordinance together uh if in fact it looks like that's the

[3:25:03] direction we're going to go. right now. I mean, he has, in my opinion, he he has

[3:25:07] to do due diligence because he doesn't know as if we were. I'm not saying we

[3:25:12] are, but anyway. So, I would make that motion that [clears throat] you read as

[3:25:18] one of our options, the first one. Uh, I would make that motion.

[3:25:22] » So, I will Supervisor Cook makes the motion and I will read the whole thing.

[3:25:26] I would read what I would do, Supervisor Cook, is I would read this sentence to

[3:25:30] Cherokei. Cherokei, the committee of the whole has completed its work and reports

[3:25:35] the following period. The Baron County Board of Supervisors meeting as a

[3:25:40] committee of the whole recommends the moratorum ordinance on data centers be

[3:25:45] placed upon the agenda for consideration at the October 19th 5:00 p.m. county

[3:25:49] board meeting. Is that your motion? >> Yes,

[3:25:52] » there's a motion by Supervisor Cook. Is there a second? Super. There's a second

[3:25:57] by Supervisor Patty Anderson. discussion before we close out our committee of the

[3:26:03] whole.

[3:26:07] I hear no discussion. I hear no amendments.

[3:26:14] All those in favor of the motion proposed by Supervisor Cook, second by

[3:26:19] Supervisor Anderson, signify by saying I. I.

[3:26:24] » Oppose. Same sign. >> Yeah. Sorry.

[3:26:28] » Okay.

[3:26:36] One, two, three, four, five. Yes. So, it' be 24 yes. I will state that it's 24

[3:26:45] yes and no and none opposed. Is that good for your record? Yes. Okay. So,

[3:26:52] second. I would entertain a motion from one of the board supervisor to come out

[3:26:57] of committee the whole and return to the assembly as a county board. Supervisor

[3:27:00] Fowler, supervisor Heler makes the motion. All those in favor signify by

[3:27:04] saying I. >> I.

[3:27:06] » We are now back as a county board. Chair Oki, you're in charge.

[3:27:10] » Just make one. >> Yes, Mr. Okonnell. Hold it. Mr. Okonnell

[3:27:12] has asked to speak. Could I just make one comment, Mr. Chairman?

[3:27:16] » Mr. Chairman. >> Sure.

[3:27:17] » Okay. Uh just a I probably should have made this in the committee of the whole

[3:27:22] I've been uh your staff person for a long time. Um but I just wanted to

[3:27:28] comment that we've been here um just a few hours talking about this issue. It

[3:27:34] has been incredibly respectful, rational,

[3:27:40] insightful, uh, and it's um, it it really is

[3:27:47] exactly how county boards should operate. And I am just in awe and admire

[3:27:54] how you conduct yourselves in Baron County. that is you're a model for how

[3:28:01] debate on issues ought to occur and it makes me so proud to work for you. Uh

[3:28:07] just my compliments. It's you you you hash things out. The questions are so

[3:28:13] thoughtful. It's rational uh conversation and you are so respectful

[3:28:18] of each other and it's uh chairman Mr. Chairman Oki and Mr. French uh just so

[3:28:25] incredibly well done. you just uh I'm just u so so proud to work for you.

[3:28:30] Thank you.

[3:28:35] » It's partially your fault. It's the way you conducted this meeting, both the

[3:28:39] presentations. You led us down the path the right way. You gave us the right

[3:28:43] information. So, we thank you for that. And it is a great board. So,

[3:28:50] Supervisor Olsson and just really I guess a point of order. Um there's

[3:28:54] discussion of whether this is going to the zoning committee or an ad hoc

[3:28:58] committee. Uh has that question been resolved? And if it's ad hoc, how do we

[3:29:04] do that in terms of deciding to do that? That's just a question.

[3:29:08] » John, couldn't we couldn't we decide that on the 19th? Couldn't we have to

[3:29:13] get those details? A little more time for the board to noodle on this. You're

[3:29:17] going to be you're going to be um when it goes to the full when we reconvene as

[3:29:23] full county board there's going to be a motion there's going to be the report

[3:29:27] from the committee of the whole then there's going to be a motion to adopt

[3:29:31] that and make that recommendation by the board to the zoning committee or the ad

[3:29:35] hoc committee. I think that's the time to do it so we know what you're going to

[3:29:37] do before you leave here today. Good >> point.

[3:29:41] » So we're going to do that on October 19th is what you're saying. No, we're do

[3:29:44] it today. Oh, >> you're going to be taking the chair back

[3:29:47] as in and reconvening the county board. >> An action taken on what the committee of

[3:29:53] the whole reported to you, >> right?

[3:29:55] » So, you're doing again what you just did, but um you just did it as committee

[3:29:59] of the whole. Now, you're going to do it as county board. That's the way your

[3:30:02] agenda is set up anyways. >> Right.

[3:30:10] So Lou, what I need to do is I need to read this statement again to you because

[3:30:14] you're now we're now back as the county board and you're the chair.

[3:30:17] » Okay. >> So chair Oki, the committee of the whole

[3:30:20] has completed its work and reports the following. Baron County Board of

[3:30:25] Supervisors meeting as a committee the whole recommends the moratorum ordinance

[3:30:29] on data centers be placed upon the agenda for consideration at the October

[3:30:33] 19th 5:00 pm county board meeting. That is their motion to rise and report. I

[3:30:38] will tell you then sir that in my opinion you are now on to item 7B.

[3:30:42] Motion to adopt modify or reject the recommendation from the committee.

[3:30:46] » So Lou you're correct. So what'll happen now is is the board's going to vote to

[3:30:50] put it on the agenda for the 19th. So sometime between now and the 19th,

[3:30:55] you're going to decide, the county board is going to decide where to refer that

[3:30:59] to, who's going to take it up uh once the moratorium's in place, who's going

[3:31:04] to take up the and you know, typically it would go to the zoning committee

[3:31:08] because that's the committee of jurisdiction because it's going to be a

[3:31:11] zoning ordinance. That's the normal way, but that that would be decided by the

[3:31:16] board as a whole. You can do it today or you can do it on the 19th. probably do

[3:31:19] it on the 19th because you don't know whether you're going to have a moratorum

[3:31:22] or not until that. Right. >> That's just it's just what I was

[3:31:26] thinking because we don't know if we're going to have that moratorum and also

[3:31:29] gives us more time to think about it. I mean I made those comments about

[3:31:32] Supervisor Cook but you know he does know a lot about this stuff and uh you

[3:31:37] know I I just trying to keep you out of trouble. [laughter]

[3:31:40] » I I appreciate that. So, uh, >> and I would say too, I think this is

[3:31:46] something that we could put on the exec agenda to have a discussion by that

[3:31:50] body. Uh, with regard, I mean, Audrey sits on that committee. She is our

[3:31:53] zoning chair. Uh, we can have a discussion about what that should look

[3:31:57] like >> and that's on September 9th. We moved to

[3:31:59] back week, just remember. Okay. >> So, I that would be my recommendation to

[3:32:03] just have at least a discussion on what it should look like.

[3:32:07] » That all right with you, Jeff? >> Yes. I'll put it on there. I'm writing

[3:32:09] it down now. >> Okay. Okay. So we have the motion that

[3:32:12] Jeff uh has said about three different times. So now we need somebody to make

[3:32:18] that motion. >> Motion to the appropriate motion it

[3:32:22] would be you adopt it, you modify it. If you modify it, it takes a motion. What

[3:32:26] what specific modification is that takes a motion, a second, and then approval.

[3:32:30] Then you go back to approve the main motion or you reject it outright. So

[3:32:35] somebody needs to >> somebody can just make a motion to

[3:32:38] adopt. >> That's correct. Motion by Supervisor

[3:32:41] Bartlett, second by Supervisor Turkot. Is there any further discussion on that?

[3:32:48] Not. All those in favor of of adopting the committee of the whole report as

[3:32:53] Jeff has said several times indicate by saying I.

[3:32:56] » I. Post say no. The motion's carried. Thanks everybody.

[3:33:01] » Now we >> now by there's no further

[3:33:06] guess against it. By unanimous consent, we'll adjourn at 4:15.

County Board 2026/08/31

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