[0:00] Call this meeting to order. At 9:00.

[0:05] FOIA appeal for Mr. Dwyer. Join me with the Pledge of Allegiance.

[0:15] I pledge allegiance >> I pledge allegiance to the United States

[0:19] of America. And to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God,

[0:25] indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[0:32] Madam Clerk, would you please take roll call?

[0:35] » Supervisor Johnson. >> Present.

[0:37] » Supervisor Crocco, here. Treasurer Davis.

[0:40] » Here. >> Trustee McKay.

[0:41] » Here. >> Trustee Monkey is excused. Trustee

[0:44] Blanchard is excused. Trustee Hoskins. >> Here.

[0:47] » Five present, we have a quorum. >> Good.

[0:51] Okay. The forwards we have FOIA appeal of

[0:55] William Dwyer. Appeal FOIA request received on June 22nd, 2026.

[1:02] So, I'm now going to turn over to our attorney to

[1:05] to uh take it from here and

[1:08] and I'll explain the appeal. >> Okay, so thank you, Randy. So,

[1:13] as you said, we're here for Mr. Dwyer's FOIA appeal. And on June 22nd, he did

[1:17] FOIA uh an email for a FOIA request requesting uh the copies of the

[1:22] completed unabridged fifth down pilot logs, transition history, and metadata

[1:25] generated by BS&A software database pertaining to the property located 4300

[1:30] Halstead Road in Willow Creek. Uh the request specifically covered uh the

[1:35] entire historical record for this parcel from the date uh the township's BS&A

[1:39] system was first implemented to present day. Uh so, there was um

[1:45] we did grant the uh the the request to the extent that the

[1:49] records did do exist. We do know that there's a BS&A system BS&A system that

[1:53] allows uh for us to research uh some some of these uh these requests. Uh

[2:00] So then on did Mr. Ryder did submit a FOIA appeal

[2:05] and that was received by the Township on August 11th at its regular meeting. And

[2:10] the appeal is Mr. Ryder requesting following relief a public body cannot

[2:14] capably perform its function when basic statutory deadlines are routinely

[2:18] ignored because the Township failed to comply with mandatory time frames

[2:20] established under the statute and legal authority.

[2:23] And because he's been forced to contact the Township's over administrative

[2:27] lapses he's collecting the problem. Uh he's requesting that the clerk's office

[2:32] to produce the actual BS&A change logs/audit trails for personal number

[2:37] 04-014-031-00

[2:41] and the permanent and waiver of all processing fees as well associated with

[2:44] this request. And there weren't any fees associated with this request before um

[2:49] my understanding. So the findings for this

[2:52] just a just some background oh regarding

[2:56] what the Township did to to look for these records. Uh they the Township does

[3:00] have the BS&A software program and that I I recall I believe it was a Friday

[3:07] myself, Joyce, and Kristy I think it was most of that afternoon

[3:10] we're going through and trying to trying to to figure out how to pull these

[3:13] records. We we did contact BS&A their help desk and they they did

[3:18] help us walk through that process.

[3:21] I think they had someone specifically that was working with us. It was

[3:25] complicated from what I recall. Uh we were able to pull uh

[3:29] uh several I think I think a bunch of records. There was a couple years that

[3:33] BS&A didn't have any records for and you know because of that we weren't

[3:37] able to produce those records but the records that we did have we did

[3:41] produce them. So once you know the Township does have a ongoing duty to

[3:46] disclose which means that if new records come up along the way that we discover

[3:50] we still have to turn those over. Okay? Now,

[3:53] with that um the assessor is most familiar with BS&A

[3:58] because they just work with it a lot more than the offices of the clerk and

[4:01] treasurer and or myself, I've never really worked with BS&A before. So, we

[4:05] just followed up with the assessor to see is there any more additional records

[4:09] that she could find that maybe we we couldn't find during

[4:13] during our research. And and I think just for the time frame, I think it was

[4:16] about 4 hours that we all were working with BS&A to try to to pull

[4:20] all the records for the first go. Um do you know if you had an opportunity to

[4:23] see if there was any records more records?

[4:25] » So, it was in the administrative BS&A system I was able to pull an audit log

[4:31] for each individual year, but my audit log only shows changes such as address

[4:36] changes and stuff. Administrative changes.

[4:41] I did call it. I did print it. I believe they gave each year to you also.

[4:46] That was the only other thing I was able to find.

[4:49] » So, were all those records disclosed to you

[4:52] by her? >> I think

[4:54] they they gave them to him. >> Yeah, he's got them.

[4:56] » Okay. >> I I mean beyond that, I'm not aware of

[5:00] any additional records that exist.

[5:04] You know, like I said, we did a a search with BS&A for about 4 hours and then to

[5:08] to make sure we didn't miss anything else.

[5:11] The the assessor she just went through what she did.

[5:14] There were some additional records that were found, which is which is fine and

[5:17] we're not going to really go into any of this most of today.

[5:20] Um Mr. Dwyer did we speak with you today? Um

[5:23] Mr. Dwyer, we also during this process too would also like you to

[5:28] if you have anything additional you'd like to tell the board, uh go ahead and

[5:31] have your chance. Okay. >> All right. First of all, I asked for the

[5:35] the records in in the digital format. And um

[5:40] uh I filed a previous FOIA request for the

[5:46] audit log on a building permit. And

[5:50] I received that in digital format. Here it is in spreadsheet.

[5:56] And I don't understand why I haven't

[5:59] received what I asked for in digital format. I've got a stack of

[6:04] paper here. >> Okay, so if you receive that today, we

[6:06] can scan this and then send it to him. That if he prefers a digital copy,

[6:10] that's something we can do. >> Okay.

[6:13] » Maybe even as soon as after the meeting. >> Okay, if that's possible.

[6:16] » I can do it as soon as I can for you. >> So that would be fine.

[6:19] » And the initial response was 3 days late.

[6:22] » And because of that, there was no cost. There was a miscommunication of when the

[6:25] records went out and we discussed that. There was no cost associated with it.

[6:29] » I'm sorry. >> There was no cost associated with it.

[6:33] » We were 3 days late. >> Yeah, there was a miscommunication of

[6:37] when and who sent the records. And we I believe we addressed that.

[6:41] Yeah, we addressed that previously. There was There was no cost associated

[6:44] with it. We're We're processing it for you.

[6:51] » And that initial response gave me everything except what I was asking for

[6:56] from from BS&A software. I gave You gave me the the

[7:01] records that are publicly visible, not the audit log.

[7:05] » As far as I know, we gave everything we had. That's If the record doesn't exist,

[7:09] it it doesn't exist or we don't create something, but as far as I know, we gave

[7:12] everything that that we had.

[7:14] » I think they're for 4 hours. It was actually between 4 and 6. And it was

[7:19] Cody Joyce and I, and I believe there was two other attorneys involved and

[7:23] BS&A. >> And Michelle was on the phone.

[7:25] » Yeah, and I did have Michelle on the phone and I couldn't I dug up everything

[7:29] that I could find. And that's all that I could find. Um

[7:34] and I don't think BS&A actually even knew what we were asking for is what I

[7:38] felt like. >> Right.

[7:41] » So I I did try to pull everything I could.

[7:44] » You know, at this point we can only produce the records we have and that's

[7:47] that's what we have. Uh so,

[7:50] like I said, it's not really I mean there was a thorough search. I at least

[7:54] 4 hours with two attorneys, several uh um

[7:59] yeah, township officials and I think part of that and Shell was on on the

[8:02] phone to part of that process, too. Uh so, in addition to what happened that

[8:06] day, um she also was able to pull a few uh files and pull a couple more uh logs

[8:11] that we have here which have been uh scanned from Mr. Dwyer and we

[8:19] So, I don't have anything additional to add. That's the summary of what happened

[8:22] with um we talked to Mr. Dwyer.

[8:27] So, Mr. Dwyer doesn't have anything additional. Uh no, I don't want to cut

[8:31] you off. Do you have anything additional about your political field we found for?

[8:34] Okay. Uh so, with this type of uh

[8:38] anytime there's an appeal, there's a few different uh

[8:41] motions that could could be uh adopted by the board. I I gave you the

[8:45] proposed motions. Uh you could deny the appeal because no other records exist.

[8:50] Uh you could grant the appeal because on additional research uh by the assessor,

[8:54] additional uh records uh were located. Uh and in this case, they

[8:59] were located. We have to get them to a a digital copy uh which he's going to get

[9:04] in you know, in probably the next hour. Uh so,

[9:10] and in the second request is a full permanent waiver of costs, but there

[9:13] there was no motion associated with it, so there's no motion associated with

[9:16] that. I I think then So, as far as the motion

[9:20] goes, yeah, I think we're going to grant the

[9:22] appeal because there was additional research and there were additional

[9:26] records that were located and I think in there you could qualify that uh

[9:31] that they were going to they will be produced to Mr. Dwyer today uh via

[9:36] email.

[9:46] So, I'm happy to answer any additional questions.

[9:51] » I have a few. Um,

[9:55] the 3-day late miscommunication, I guess we don't need to go over what that was,

[9:59] but sometimes that seems to be continuing.

[10:03] What can we do to move this forward so we're not having these delays?

[10:08] » No, it's a good question, Karen. So, there's for example, we did receive a

[10:11] couple of, uh, FOIA requests since. So, the 10-day extension, uh, went out for

[10:15] one of them yesterday. I confirmed Mr. Dwyer received it on before the meeting.

[10:20] Uh, the second one, uh, is going to go out today. We also need a

[10:23] 10-day extension for that. And it's, you know, for FOIA requests, uh,

[10:27] on our end, it's maintaining contact now with with with

[10:31] Joyce and Kristy with a copy to if, you know, to Randy. And then, uh, also with

[10:36] with records that go out. Like for last night's, for example, uh,

[10:40] I was copying the whole board on it. Uh, it's typically that, I mean, that's not

[10:44] required FOIA, but I think that's probably just the best case.

[10:46] » Yeah, we appreciate that. >> Yeah. We can handle that.

[10:49] » My other question is this audit that we just got here. And so did Mr. Dwyer.

[10:55] Um, and this was printed out the 18th. Moving forward,

[10:59] I'm not sure who printed this out or who had it, but it would be really nice to

[11:02] get these earlier. So, we have a chance to look at it

[11:05] before the meeting. Cuz this was printed the 18th, so that's a week. It We don't

[11:09] have a chance to look at this. Mr. Dwyer did not have a chance to look at this.

[11:12] To me, that's not fair. >> Okay. So, in the future, if there's, uh,

[11:16] additional records, then let's let's get those out

[11:19] » The day they're printed. They should be flying out to everybody.

[11:31] That's it. Thank you. Oh, one other

[11:35] » Sure, sure. >> our Zoom

[11:38] that just went on the website and our Facebook. We have to do better on that,

[11:42] too.

[11:46] Because that's how the public can keep an eye on what's going on here as well

[11:49] as us. The Zoom should have went out on the

[11:52] website, on Facebook. It's not It just went on

[11:56] at least 5 minutes before our meeting. So, I've already have people sending me

[11:59] messages that wanted to watch this that are asking me where that Zoom is. It

[12:03] should go should have been on Friday, Thursday.

[12:07] So, the public has a chance to be there as well. I'm done now, thank you.

[12:13] » I have a question. >> Sure.

[12:14] » for Dwyer. Um, under the transaction history, what is it

[12:19] that you're looking for specifically? >> I just want

[12:23] audit logs that show timestamps, usernames, and what was changed.

[12:30] » Okay. >> On everything.

[12:32] » Okay, I don't know that I can find that. I can pull up

[12:37] the one that I did myself when I cashed that check, but that's the

[12:43] only part that I can get into. Michelle's system and my system is

[12:47] completely different and a lot of her stuff I'm not allowed into, but I can at

[12:52] least pull up what I processed for you and when I processed it.

[12:56] » Okay. >> And it's going to be the only one that I

[12:58] can do and I can also send it over to you. Is that Michelle? Is that something

[13:02] you can do, the audit log? I I'm new to I don't know.

[13:05] » I just wanted that I did provide that I that I did not I wasn't sure what was

[13:09] what it was why I didn't pass it on until I confirmed this morning that you

[13:12] were going to pass it on. >> Okay.

[13:14] » Um, that is just administrative. That basically will show to you if you just

[13:17] took a parcel like address changes or if there was a permit pulled that that was

[13:22] put into my system. They we link together and that

[13:27] Yeah, different changes to the actual administrative database.

[13:31] » Okay. >> You want my audit log to show?

[13:33] It doesn't show any payments or anything like that.

[13:35] » Okay. So, between both of you, you can >> Yeah, I can only pull up the one.

[13:39] » Got you. >> But the one that I did, I can pull up.

[13:42] But I mean, I can try to dig deeper, but I

[13:46] can only go so far. I'm only allowed to go so far in the system.

[13:50] » Yeah. So, between both of you, like I said, they can probably

[13:54] get better or both of you printing something out and comparing it? I don't

[13:57] know. >> I have a question. It's a

[14:00] It's a Microsoft SQL database. Why is it not linked?

[14:06] » Well, they're linked, just I don't have access to or they do anything in the

[14:10] treasury system or pull any reports. I only have access to my

[14:14] administrative BSA database. They're two different

[14:18] systems. They're linked, but um a building permit, per se, I can look

[14:22] into that there is a building permit, but the specifics of it I have to

[14:25] manually put in. That's

[14:28] » Okay, that doesn't make any sense, but okay, whatever. I don't care.

[14:32] » I don't disagree. >> Yeah.

[14:36] » And I am the same. I can't change anything on your system. There are some

[14:41] things I can see, but I can't change anything.

[14:43] » Is that the normal stuff? >> I I've run this issue before.

[14:46] » Okay. Okay. >> Yeah, and it is See, like the problem is

[14:48] is like you're we're limited to the program that we use. So, a lot of times

[14:52] when there are requests for this it's exactly what you're seeing now.

[14:56] Like you pull the records and then that's the record we have and we

[15:00] produce. And if there's something that additional records that exist somewhere

[15:05] we don't have them. And that's why you see that nothing exists as far as on

[15:10] that end, but that that's been a It's not the first time I've ever heard

[15:14] that. >> Okay.

[15:15] » So, that's um pretty normal for the job. Each job has their own program that they

[15:20] deal with. >> Right.

[15:21] » And Yeah, a lot of them you can do a read-only,

[15:24] » Mhm. but not produce anything from. >> And I get that, but with Christie's

[15:28] printout and Michelle's printout, it seems like we could do a comparison and

[15:31] maybe make a spreadsheet on those comparisons on each of yours and yours.

[15:35] Does that make sense, or is that >> I don't know that I can dig that deep. I

[15:38] might just be able to pull up the transaction that I did.

[15:41] » Yep. >> So, anything else

[15:44] I think it's only going to be the one transaction.

[15:46] » Okay. >> The one that I processed.

[15:48] » Yeah. >> It's what it is, so I don't know if

[15:50] there'll be a comparison. >> Okay.

[15:53] » My audit log won't show her transaction. >> Correct.

[15:56] So, okay.

[16:02] » For the record, you you know that you you processed the one in May on the 20th

[16:07] on May 21st. >> Yes, that was the

[16:11] » That was building permit. >> It was a building permit that he he

[16:15] actually processes it in his system under building and zoning,

[16:20] and so he enters the information in, and then he brings it over to my office, and

[16:25] I cash receipt it, or actually you cash receipt it.

[16:29] And then I'm the one that does the deposit to the bank on that.

[16:35] So, that was the only part that I I deposited it. Pretty much is all I

[16:40] did with it.

[16:54] » Um this is what I got from that

[16:57] from that uh that May

[17:00] uh request. >> That was the one from the building

[17:02] permit. >> I got the one from the building permit.

[17:05] So, I had even tried when we were talking about it last week recreating

[17:09] that one, and every time I tried to run that same record, BS&A was giving me an

[17:12] error, like memory something something. Uh so, I'm looking into that, but so I

[17:18] on my side, like I know there's a couple of enforcement and stuff I was trying to

[17:21] get the auto lot for, but it kept giving me that same error.

[17:24] Um, but I'm working on that. I can okay, send all that over to you when I get it.

[17:34] » Go ahead and pass it around the room to me.

[17:36] » Okay, sure.

[17:43] » So, what we need then is the motion to grant the appeal with an understanding

[17:48] that any new info will be forwarded.

[17:57] » I move to uh grant the appeal

[18:02] with the understanding that any research has been located

[18:08] and will be distributed on

[18:12] » And that >> later today?

[18:13] » with zero fee? >> With zero fee?

[18:16] » fee. There was no fee.

[18:22] » I'll second it.

[18:27] » Moved and seconded. Is there any dis- more discussion on it?

[18:32] » I just if you pull the original paperwork on that permit, you'll see

[18:35] that the the dates are wrong.

[18:40] » I don't know if I can pull Cody's um paperwork on that.

[18:44] » I'm talking about my paperwork with my handwriting on it.

[18:48] » Can I copy this? >> Yeah. I have

[18:51] the same version. I can send it to you. >> Okay.

[18:53] » It's a PDF file. >> If you can forward that to all of us,

[18:58] please.

[19:03] » There's a motion on the floor to be voted on.

[19:08] Any discussion can take roll call. >> Trustee Hoskins.

[19:13] » Yes. >> Treasurer Davis.

[19:14] » Yes. >> Clerk Barocco. Yes.

[19:17] Trustee McAd. >> Yes.

[19:18] » Supervisor Johnson. >> Yes.

[19:20] » Five yes. Motion carried.

[19:34] » Who did you want to speak?

[19:37] » After public. If anybody need anybody on the board to talk after public.

[19:42] » Okay, Mr. Blair, are you satisfied?

[19:46] Are you satisfied with your comments so far or you need more time?

[19:51] » I guess. I mean, that's

[19:55] that's if that's the best you can do, then

[19:57] I guess that's all I'm all I'm going to get.

[20:02] » Okay, we'll move to a public comment. Anybody wishing to speak at this

[20:05] hearing?

[20:10] » No.

[20:16] All right. >> I'll be back.

[20:23] So,

[20:26] here we are again in another FOIA appeal.

[20:31] Um

[20:34] that was done everything last minute again.

[20:38] Like you said, should be done. Many things are done, we should have it

[20:42] put out to the public for anything. I mean,

[20:45] the only reason and I know because I had conversations with people that was here

[20:49] about how politics work and the power works. Somebody do things like

[20:53] send out your emails at, you know, 4:29 on Thursday when you're leaving for the

[20:58] weekend and that's what you do with the game that you play

[21:02] and it's a regular occurrence that happens

[21:07] from attorneys as well as from boards. Um you form patterns when you do things

[21:14] like I have for as long as I have. You form some patterns of things. And

[21:20] then when you're told things that have happened.

[21:27] And then you you can say that someone's lying, but then oh, I guess I the nice

[21:31] way to put it out there was someone misspoke.

[21:35] Someone must have just misspoke recently because

[21:39] because we don't we don't have a pattern yet of

[21:43] not sharing properly. We don't have patterns yet of

[21:48] doing things incorrectly.

[21:55] The data that he requested is absolutely 100% a part of the BS&A system.

[22:02] Whether you're not talking to a technician, you're talking to a

[22:05] salesperson instead of actual data technicians.

[22:09] The The records are there of who

[22:15] as a representative in your in your departments

[22:19] did any changes within the system. Those records are there.

[22:23] 1,000% I am building these same exact systems.

[22:30] And guess what? For retention of all records for when you build a system like

[22:35] this, every single bit of data is in the

[22:38] system. And it is a record.

[22:41] It's there.

[22:45] You guys can just deny and play ignorant all you want.

[22:49] But you guys' ignorance is costing the township too much money.

[22:54] And it is growing at a rapid pace. So I suggest you again, like I said last

[23:00] meeting, we probably need to fire the attorney again and find someone that's

[23:05] competent. I think we should maybe get people on the board that actually are

[23:10] competent to do work like FOIA requests that are actually simple. You guys are

[23:15] screwing it up at a very very severe degree. Attorneys and the

[23:19] clerk are not doing it at all. Simple work.

[23:24] Simple work.

[23:32] » Anybody else would like to speak in public comment?

[23:39] Seeing none, we'll go to uh trustee personal privilege.

[23:47] » Mr. McGinn. >> I'm all set.

[23:53] » I'll again reiterate that I but I'm earlier that we do need to do better.

[23:58] These need to get to us. We have to have time to review these instead of them at

[24:01] our desk here at our seats when we come in

[24:05] for this FOIA. Emails would be great. I want to work on these dates. We should

[24:11] not be filing extensions unless it's something major. I would like to know

[24:16] what constitutes a 10-day an extension for 10 days that we're not

[24:20] able to get that information. The 3 days late and stuff, I just

[24:24] the public's asking for that and they're seeing that. So, we need to move that

[24:29] forward. That's it.

[24:32] Thank you.

[24:34] » Um

[24:37] I will try to get on the phone again with the FOIA and talk to them again to

[24:41] see if there's something that I can find or something they can help me find to

[24:46] see if I can help him find what he's looking

[24:50] for. Again today, I'll try. Um that's all I have.

[24:57] » I'm good. >> No further comments.

[25:02] Hearing is adjourned.

2026.08.25 Bedford Charter Township Special Board Meeting

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