[12:25] Yeah, we got a lot of things to look at. >> Yeah.

[12:30] » Okay. Um, we're good to go. >> Yep. Recording. Doing all this ready.

[12:37] Okay. >> We've been ready for a few minutes now.

[12:39] John, >> sorry [laughter]

[12:42] this a new chair.

[12:46] Uh, let's see. will bring the city of Belleview Planning and Zoning Commission

[12:49] meeting to order for Monday, August 17th, 5:32 p.m. Uh Brian, do you roll

[12:56] call? >> Great. Mr. Hers here.

[12:58] » Mr. Here. >> Okay. Um, notice of agenda compliance

[13:04] finding that the regular meeting notice and agenda were posted in accordance

[13:07] with Idaho code 74204 within 48 hours prior to the meeting of the city city of

[13:14] Belleview city hall post office on the city's website on August 13th.

[13:18] » I move the notice for the August 17th, 2026 regular meeting was completed in

[13:22] accordance with Idaho code section 74-204.

[13:26] » I'll second. >> Okay. All in favor? I I

[13:31] conflict >> uh [clears throat]

[13:35] item DR26-09

[13:39] that applicant they are friends of ours. >> Okay.

[13:53] » You have any financial interest? >> No, sir.

[13:55] » Anybody in your family? >> No, sir.

[13:57] » Okay. It's a small town. >> Yeah.

[14:00] » You can get rid of everybody you're acquainted with. It's gonna be tough.

[14:04] » Exactly. >> Okay. Um, please public comment. Any

[14:09] comments for items that are not on the agenda?

[14:16] See, we have couple people online, but I don't see anybody raising their hand.

[14:23] Okay, we'll move on to the consent agenda.

[14:29] think

[14:39] I think I was going to take another look

[15:38] Uh, you all set? I'm >> good. I move to approve consent agenda

[15:46] uh items A and B.

[15:53] » Second. >> Okay. All in favor?

[15:56] » I I [clears throat]

[15:58] Okay, new business. Um DR 2608 217 North Second Street.

[16:10] [laughter]

[16:26] Okay.

[16:36] Okay. Um, okay. An application for design

[16:41] review approval for the placement of a manufactured home and construction of

[16:46] the garage with accessories dwelling unit at 217 North Second Street.

[16:55] » Okay. Brian, do you have anything you want to

[16:57] » Uh, yeah. Go through this real quick. Uh, the limited business residential

[17:03] zone requires design review for all structures. So, even though it is a

[17:08] single family residence, still requires that review. Uh, there is an accessory

[17:12] dwelling unit proposed with it. Our code uh does not allow for those if the lot

[17:18] is less than 6,000 square feet. Uh so there's a requirement that they get a

[17:22] survey done and provide that showing that it is 600 feet or larger. Um this

[17:28] zone has a maximum parking requirement for residences. Uh so the requirement

[17:35] for a maximum six parking spaces. Um,

[17:41] additionally, the uh zone requires that parking areas in front of building be

[17:46] screened by landscaping uh or moved not in front of the building, which I think

[17:52] is going to be difficult. So, there's a requirement to either remove it or

[17:56] screen it effectively. Um they work with so public works on alleyway improvements

[18:02] and snow removal plan uh and utility connections

[18:07] and then they need to provide it to your late and the is here if you have any

[18:12] questions.

[18:22] Is there anything else that you'd like to add to that?

[18:33] You guys have questions? >> I guess it looks like right now

[18:38] according to the GIS, we're coming up a couple of square feet short,

[18:42] » right? Bl County GIS calculates it based on

[18:47] GIS math and it usually is pretty close, but it's not surveyed. Yeah. So,

[18:56] survey by smart and it's 8 ft over 6,000 a little bit larger just over

[19:07] threshold 6000 have the survey it's from this year

[19:13] recent

[19:17] the results of those don't change most barely stay.

[19:31] [snorts]

[19:46] » Let's see. Brian, you were talking about the the

[19:50] um parking and screening.

[19:56] Walk walk me through that where what's required and what's being proposed. Is

[20:04] there a way to find that? Um,

[20:09] so like I said, this residential zone has, I believe it's a four space maximum

[20:15] for a single family residence and a six space for a two family residence. Since

[20:19] this is a house with an AU, it kind of falls in the queen by air outside of a

[20:23] two family residence. Um, so there's a twocar garage, parking for

[20:29] three cars in the front, and then along the side here,

[20:33] uh, is identified as gravel parking space. Just on the length of it, looks

[20:39] like you could fit three to four cars. I don't recall exactly how many I counted.

[20:45] Um, so my recommendation, we just remove the

[20:50] three parking spaces along Second Street and have a nice little front yard area.

[20:57] Uh, and then you can still use the garage

[21:01] and the parking lot inside.

[21:06] Okay. So, not have the parking up top, right?

[21:12] But then we've got some trees here. maple trees. Would that still then allow

[21:16] for like >> Yeah, there's also sufficient spacing to

[21:21] add.

[21:28] Are there Well, let's see here. Are there other

[21:32] Let's see. Right next to it is a home that has

[21:41] um my

[21:48] It's actually

[22:08] the challenge is that I got to be like this.

[22:12] It's normal.

[22:20] See the storage.

[22:41] So what does our code say with we can't have parking on second because of

[22:51] is that because it's light industrial limited

[23:01] » it's not no parking on the second it's a maximum total

[23:04] » maximum parking right And then a screening requirement.

[23:10] » Screening requirement either be located at the rear building

[23:16] or screens. Not necessarily completely screen but

[23:21] nicely.

[23:57] really not a good way to to screen that parking off a second that I can see

[24:02] » with I mean with the footprint of everything that we've got going on

[24:08] screen. >> Yeah. I mean if you could put screening

[24:11] in the right of way then That would be different but you got to

[24:15] keep that and that's got to stay clear.

[24:21] » Oh let's see. So that is there is

[24:27] so yeah I guess with this uh page 69 the site

[24:34] » site plan there that does so the parking is 100% on this property and there is a

[24:39] 25 foot back street is that right

[24:44] » yes from the right 25

[25:09] You could potentially do

[25:16] if you did some some screening or some, you know, some shrubs or something like

[25:21] right along the property line. You could probably sneak two

[25:29] two parking spots like here

[25:35] and it's

[25:38] see where you're going with that. Well, then don't we don't we allow for

[25:45] some um

[25:49] as far as trees or shrubs in the right way? I mean, I know we're kind of

[25:55] our current code allows for roadways, utilities,

[26:01] and range as

[26:14] Yeah, you said our current code, but we're

[26:20] in well once we we're trying to address that in the future to create a code

[26:25] which would allow for >> Yes.

[26:28] » for that

[26:32] which we would actually encourage and in right location. Yeah.

[26:42] appropriate. Yeah. Yeah.

[26:47] Tree or something.

[27:04] Uh so with

[27:11] process-wise, you know, assuming that we move forward

[27:15] with with modifying that in our code and that does pass to allow for

[27:23] um vegetation right away. Um

[27:30] would would he the applicant be able to come back to apply for uh to put right

[27:35] away >> and then and then at that point modify

[27:38] the >> um

[27:45] » right right now with a 20 you know if this is 20 ft wide um you could easily

[27:52] get some shrubs in there and then one car um

[27:57] you know If those shrubs were right on the property line and you parked

[28:01] carefully, you could probably get two cars in there.

[28:04] » Um, depending on what exactly those shrubs were. Um,

[28:09] you know, you could do something that's, you know, that gets to 4 feet tall and

[28:15] foot and a half in diameter, right? >> Put half a dozen of those there and and

[28:20] that becomes in my mind pretty good screening.

[28:24] Um, and then you know that car pulls in. One would be pretty comfortable and

[28:32] easy. Two would be tight. >> And how many do we total do we need? We

[28:37] need to have six maximum. >> I'm just trying to figure a way where,

[28:45] you know, because you don't want all the parking to be in the back. If we're

[28:49] setting this up or if we're assuming that this is two families, you know,

[28:54] some parking, you know, on the on the side of the lot that the that the

[28:59] modular home is on would, I think, be appropriate and highly preferable

[29:08] versus having the parking blocking the garage from exiting. That just seems

[29:14] like a like a tenant squabble waiting to

[29:19] happen. >> Yeah.

[29:26] » Yeah. Uh well, we need to we need to have a well

[29:33] maximum of six, I guess. But um >> so are we considering this a twocar

[29:38] garage or three? A >> twocar garage. Just like that.

[29:43] » All parts along the side and then breathe card.

[29:46] » Oh, along the side, right?

[29:53] Well, that could definitely get

[30:00] set so that there's like a, you know, a designated number of spots in that in

[30:05] that gravel area. Yeah. >> My measure went 82 ft. Assuming they're

[30:12] parallel parks, that is 23 foot is the parking length on

[30:16] that. So,

[30:21] of course, they could drive through the alley.

[30:24] almost like

[30:34] [snorts] do we invite some uh input from the applicant as far as what

[30:39] they would like to what their preference would be to to kind of

[30:44] adjust this parking plan? Most definitely. Yeah.

[30:49] Do you you see where we're at and what we're struggling with? the gas cops or

[30:54] » ideally you would have parking on the on the rear garage and then parking at the

[30:59] front or the manufactured house

[31:06] and on the side the long drive through would be store RV or some kind of

[31:11] trailer

[31:15] only. >> Sure.

[31:23] um should be just a single person in the

[31:27] ADU. one family that's one and the front would be

[31:32] a family with two adult two married couple or married

[31:37] couple

[31:42] born in like a small under 10

[31:49] » children

[31:54] » sure but the permit has to be for what could happen in future.

[31:59] » We can't tailor it too closely to >> figure

[32:07] [laughter] like

[32:11] on both sides on both sides of this parcel there is parking. They have their

[32:15] the garage is sort of in the front of the home with the front door on the side

[32:19] and they have parking in the garage and on the

[32:23] concrete system.

[32:29] » So yeah, with with that then the the garage parking is that within the six

[32:35] foot setback or not? >> No, this site plane you're seeing it

[32:38] all. >> Okay.

[32:43] So yeah, then there could be another option to put one there on I guess it'd

[32:46] be the upper left hand corner, right? That

[32:51] would still would be parking for the garage, but it'

[32:55] be parking there.

[33:00] I mean, maybe a little bit awkward depend on where the

[33:05] there's a back door or whatever residence, but that's another spot if

[33:09] we, you know, had some shrugs or something along the front.

[33:13] Thank you recommending that. >> Is your intent for the for the

[33:20] modular home occupants to use the garage for parking or is your intent to have

[33:26] the ADU occupants use the garage for parking?

[33:31] » The ADU occupants will use the garage. Okay. So,

[33:38] » okay. So, to my mind, we need to find a we need to find a way to accommodate

[33:44] a couple cars on on or near the second street side rather than the alley side

[33:52] » is how I'm >> uh

[33:56] conceptualizing this. So,

[34:01] is there a Brian? Is there a way that we can

[34:07] have a gravel have a portion of that be

[34:12] designated as like a gravel storage area that rather than a rather than having

[34:18] the whole thing be designated as gravel parking space

[34:24] or is that splitting that here too? Finally,

[34:26] » designate it whatever we want. Generally, if you designate something

[34:31] with the knowledge that it's going to be used for something else, you're setting

[34:33] it up for code enforcement issues. >> Sure.

[34:38] » Well, but I guess that's where I'm going with this is that

[34:43] the I don't think we are setting it up with the knowledge that it will be used

[34:47] for something else. I think a a place to store

[34:54] an RV or a trailer. I mean, that's different than a single vehicle parking

[34:58] space. >> Yes. So, if the intent is not to park

[35:04] four cars along the side of the modular home, but rather to to

[35:10] do seasonal storage of of an RV or or a trailer, then that's to my mind that

[35:19] that is um designating it to the

[35:26] actual future use.

[35:32] could just yeah or require that the storage alongside be for RVs or similar

[35:40] enough for vehicle parking

[35:44] and then it's just an ongoing requirement that they maintain that

[35:52] you know maybe we move snow storage to to somewhere in here so

[36:01] It's, you know, at least in winter time, that snow storage

[36:06] area is blocking so that you can't just pull on through,

[36:12] » right? >> And then this this spot here,

[36:18] you can park a park a car there.

[36:23] That's not really screened if you're pulling through here, but

[36:29] it's back further off the street.

[36:42] Maybe this is getting too far into designing the

[36:46] » need to feel obligated. Well, and the other part of it too that

[36:51] I would be concerned about it being a neighbor is if we plant a tree too close

[36:55] to the to the fence, then we're actually, you know, then you're

[37:00] encroaching, you know, depending on the type of tree and what it is onto the

[37:05] neighbor's property, they might like or they may dislike.

[37:09] And that's right. That's why they're

[37:14] Yeah. Um

[37:18] yeah, I mean that's that is kind of a a weird thing where here is actually doing

[37:25] the design on the fly here which

[37:32] I'm not totally

[37:35] uh if we if we deny this can we deny it with the

[37:41] specific you know on the on the grounds of of the

[37:45] specific parking issue and give staff authority to do an administrative

[37:51] approval without having to do you know submit a new

[37:55] » I would deny it. I would >> add a condition of approval or modify

[38:00] one conditional >> and then

[38:04] » Gotcha. So we could we could approve it

[38:09] with a condition that that parking uh

[38:15] parking plan gets adjusted gets modified to to meet code and give staff approval

[38:22] to or give staff authority to administratively approve that revision.

[38:27] » Yeah. >> Okay.

[38:30] » Okay. Um and then also with with that if you modify

[38:38] including some vegetation um to >> yeah I think we provide that as a

[38:43] suggestion for for a direction to move towards towards meeting that

[38:49] requirement. >> Yeah

[38:51] » that would satisfy the parking issue for me.

[38:59] everything else on. >> Yeah, I I think the rest of it looks all

[39:03] right.

[39:06] Um, >> yes,

[39:08] » you know, we'd want to leave a a condition of approval

[39:14] on exterior lighting that a lighting plane gets submitted. That's all that's

[39:19] dark sky compliant.

[39:22] » I think that's probably in the suggested >> Yes.

[39:27] » conditions. Right. >> Yep.

[39:34] » And I am not a expert by any means as far as moving or setting up a project or

[39:39] home, but I'm assuming that actually one can get

[39:43] with the room where the speed of the bike and everything else. One can

[39:47] actually be placed somebody can back in there. [laughter]

[39:51] » Those guys are good. >> Skilled backer.

[39:54] » I have the answer to that. They're going to have to rent a special thing called a

[39:58] trans cat because it's going to it's coming in in two pieces. First piece

[40:04] there's not enough room on the lot to have two side by side. So they bring in

[40:08] one piece they pull it to the when it's placed on the concrete they pull it to

[40:11] the other side and then probably the next day bringing section two

[40:17] pieces together. So be like a two day

[40:24] » as long as it's logistically possible. >> They have the equipment to do it.

[40:34] » Looks like condition one is met

[40:39] » or or easily will be when that when that survey gets submitted.

[40:46] two is what we were just talking about.

[40:51] » And three,

[40:57] » four is standard. Five is what we were just talking about.

[41:02] I

[41:06] think I'm comfortable with this. >> Oh, okay.

[41:09] Uh I move to approve uh DR 2608 subject to the conditions outlined in the staff

[41:14] report and to direct staff to prepare findings of fact conclusions of law and

[41:20] decision documents reflecting this recommendation based on the record

[41:23] provided. I'll second

[41:39] here. >> Okay.

[41:43] » All right. [clears throat] Moving on to DR 2679, addition of

[41:52] addition to 213 North Third Street. Application for design review approval

[41:57] for a setback encroachment for an additional an addition to a structure

[42:02] located at

[42:09] » Yes. >> This one

[42:12] they got started a little bit. If you look on the GIS, you can see it's in

[42:17] progress. We've been working with them on getting it fixed and all up to stuff

[42:23] and all that. Uh the reason in front of you guys tonight if I can find

[42:32] zoom way [laughter]

[42:35] right there is just a couple inches over

[42:41] » that's the eve. >> Yep. So by coincident residential zone

[42:46] they can get a reduction to four feet with design approval.

[42:50] » Have you talked to them about using a 1x six spacer instead of a 2x6 face?

[42:53] [laughter] >> I think they volunteered to get

[43:01] [laughter]

[43:05] a foot right that if that

[43:11] I looked at the Yeah. Yeah. It's it's inches.

[43:30] » I'm good. >> You're good.

[43:32] » Okay.

[43:44] 2609. >> Yes.

[43:46] » Uh I move to approve design review 2609.

[43:52] » Sec. >> I I

[43:57] Okay, we're on to the third one. Uh CP62,

[44:04] Family Health Services Parking Lot Extension.

[44:11] » You know, I was I do recall. And what was it? What was it? This came in front

[44:16] of us ago.

[44:20] » No, this the the parking lot. >> I think it was 202.

[44:26] » Oh. Oh, this one. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yep.

[44:28] » And I was curious what Was there much change earlier?

[44:37] I did not mean the plans that were submitting at that point in time. I

[44:43] would guess that they're very similar because that's really one way of doing

[44:48] this. >> Yeah. Well, I'm curious why it's in

[44:50] front of us again. >> Uh because they didn't progress

[44:56] and progress on construction within the year.

[45:01] expired. Yeah. >> Okay.

[45:04] So, any changes then? >> No. Um [clears throat]

[45:08] with engineering, but no major changes to the parking lot layout. We did uh the

[45:13] director add some landscaping um into the parking lot layout to a little

[45:19] there's there's two additional trees on street side um to create some some

[45:23] vegetation for a fronting the highway. And then we also omitted all of the ITD

[45:28] improvements that were previously proposed. Um we reached out to ITD and

[45:33] they're planning on constructing the sidewalk section in 2027

[45:37] to next year. So that will be something that ITD is installing.

[45:45] » But the on improvements are largely the >> and as far as it does say here the

[45:50] landscaping green. Um what [clears throat] what landscaping are you

[45:56] closing? Did I miss that or is that >> I don't think we specified that the

[46:01] owner is going to work with a landscape installer. Um we will have you know I

[46:05] think there's existing trees that we'll try to maintain where possible. They're

[46:08] really nice shade trees. And then we'll have two new trees um that are proposed

[46:11] in the two-way scape island. And then we'll probably have some

[46:16] the

[46:20] » Yeah, that south end basically kind of >> falls off.

[46:25] » Yeah.

[46:29] » Yeah. I was going to maybe recommend some taller trees in there, but I'm not

[46:32] sure if that would be a good idea as far as winter. That's going to cast a lot of

[46:36] shade. probably ice a parking lot. We don't probably need that in the family

[46:41] services type of a facility. >> Yeah.

[46:44] » Reduce the amount of ice. >> Yeah. Well, I I would love if we can let

[46:50] the the owners work with the lander for, you know, to make a recommendation

[46:54] that'll be good for screening and also shade the too much.

[46:59] » Sure. Yeah. Yeah. That would be my recommendation, especially on that side.

[47:02] Yeah.

[47:30] Well, I move to approve it the first time around.

[47:34] » [laughter]

[47:41] » I move to approve CUP 2602. I will second uh well with

[47:50] with conditions uh [snorts] recommended by staff. There's some stuff about

[47:56] » um building permit before starting

[48:00] construction and stuff like that. So, you want me to remake the motion? I

[48:07] withdraw my motion.

[48:11] [laughter] >> I'll do my best.

[48:16] » Uh, I move to approve CUP 2601 for an expansion of the motor vehicle sales.

[48:24] Whoa, no, that's a long page. Not where I need to be.

[48:30] » Um, >> 2602. 2602

[48:33] » 621. >> Okay. I move to approve COP 2602. We're

[48:40] a parking lot at the Family Health Facility at

[48:47] the address again. 621 North 621 North Main Street.

[48:53] and to direct staff to prepare prepare findings of fact, conclusions of law and

[48:58] uh decision documents reflecting this decision.

[49:04] » All in favor? >> I

[49:12] [clears throat] Okay, now we are on to

[49:16] preserve management plan action item. Um,

[49:22] so C city initiated update to the Howard Preserve Management Plan. Um, and maybe

[49:27] before we get too far into that, I was curious what our what our role as PMZ is

[49:33] for what's the plan. >> Uh, it's not really specified, but uh,

[49:39] it seemed like worth bringing to you guys. It's just tangentially associated

[49:45] with a lot of the other projects we've got going on. So, Gotcha.

[49:51] Um, and it's of course it's been updated. I

[49:55] didn't don't know the first one. >> I printed it out.

[50:02] If you would like to 2017 is the current room. Uh,

[50:09] things that have changed and I suspect that Florence here may be able to tell

[50:16] us more as well. Um but it accounts for the acquisition of the

[50:21] buyer's parcel. Um there is now an annual update and review

[50:28] process where we take the council and say here's what we did in the last year.

[50:31] Here's some minor changes we should make to the plan. So we just keep doing that

[50:36] and then every five years we do a more substantial update. um capital

[50:41] improvement projects. There's a few that have been added to the list, but it's

[50:44] also split out into short-term and long-term.

[50:47] Um the events section uh is the part that really initiated this whole thing.

[50:54] Um the current one

[51:00] allows for two general events per year, I believe, and

[51:05] small educational events and those sorts of things. The new version is

[51:12] um no events except for

[51:16] fundraising activities, small picnics uh all sponsored by the three managing

[51:23] board or members uh managing agencies. Um

[51:33] it's changed a little bit. So I printed out a new version for you guys as well

[51:36] on this one. Uh

[51:40] the managing partners uh can have one picnic and one fundraising event per

[51:46] year. Uh provided that motor vehicle access prohibited. The preserve remains

[51:52] open during preparation. Uh the manu department need notification

[51:58] review 30 60 days prior to the event. Uh no fires without permit from the fire

[52:03] department. Crash equipment otherwise removed within 48 hours. Amplified sound

[52:09] is prohibited. Uh alcohol has to be approved by landing partners and

[52:14] attendance is limited to our to 200.

[52:20] And then the last thing that I noted is a more significant change is the fire

[52:26] management. Under our current plan, the only allowable method is for the fire

[52:30] chief to pull coal burn permit and do control burning in there. U this allows

[52:36] for mechanical vending and other fuels mitigation strategies utilizing best

[52:41] available science.

[52:45] » So going back to the organized activities and this does allow for like

[52:51] yeah people to go down and have picnics. What's what's the threshold on

[52:56] like if somebody you instead of one family what happens if you want to have

[53:00] four families and you know is there a number

[53:03] » right >> um associated with just informal use of

[53:07] the preserve >> uh it is not specified in that

[53:11] » you can just go down and have a picnic that's not what we're trying to prevent

[53:16] » an annual picnic that we've usually had every five years we have a picnic to

[53:21] celebrate the Howard preserve But anybody could go down there anytime and

[53:25] ask. >> Well, where I'm going with that,

[53:27] Florence, is like if there's if four if four families wanted to go down there,

[53:32] you know, and then you've got, say you've got, you know, 30 people or 40

[53:38] people, you know, down there having a picnic. Is that cool or not? Where do

[53:43] you where do we draw the line on >> when does it become an event?

[53:46] » Yeah. When Yeah. When do we when do you tip the threshold from a just a regular

[53:52] problem? >> Yeah. Right. [laughter]

[53:54] » So I guess if that problem comes up, we deal with it. But it's, you know, I

[54:00] think one of the reasons that we're kind of trying to limit events, you know,

[54:05] private events is because the preserve has been getting so much

[54:09] increased use. I mean, we have six 16,000 visitor days

[54:15] approximately this past year. The trails are getting worn out. You know, there's

[54:22] wildlife there. We have a conservation easement. We have to sort of balance it

[54:27] all, >> right?

[54:28] » And I think that's that's, you know, the public access that

[54:32] people have now, it's not going to change.

[54:34] » Yeah. It's just that, you know, people cannot apply for a

[54:41] permit for large events like a big wedding or something like that. And

[54:45] that's the kind of thing we want to protect the preserve. I know you guys

[54:50] have a lot of decisions you have to make that actually reduce wildlife habitat.

[54:56] you know, subdivisions, Carl Malone, places we

[55:02] used to see animals, don't see them anymore. They have a chance here kind of

[55:06] just put an extra layer on the hard preserve just to keep it

[55:12] » Yeah. >> a little contained in that respect.

[55:15] Well, the reason why I kind of bring that up is because the one thing that I

[55:18] would would be unfortunate is all of a sudden if people did have, you know,

[55:22] four families went down there and they didn't contact the city, they didn't

[55:25] contact anybody, they just went down, then all of a sudden people are going to

[55:28] get upset because there's but there was no process or any no way for them to

[55:34] actually try to do the right thing because they didn't even know there was

[55:37] a thing to do. And I should clarify this plan is not by like it's not legal,

[55:45] it's not law, it's a guidance document. Yeah.

[55:48] » Uh the actual laws and ordinances are city code. Uh our current code has three

[55:54] categories. Uh there's organized event which is 25 to 99 individuals. Major

[56:00] event is 100 to 199 and a special event is 200 plus. Gota

[56:09] and so it would be an event by code if there

[56:14] are more 25 on property. >> Yeah. City part.

[56:18] » Yeah. Yeah. So we could we could you know that of course is in the plan. The

[56:24] one thing that I think would be good to do is somehow um associate that with

[56:29] there's I haven't looked at the website associated with Howard Preserve or in

[56:35] the interpretive materials that are down there so that people have we can say

[56:39] that they've been informed. >> Yeah.

[56:41] » Um otherwise it's on us to it's not their fault. It would be our fault

[56:46] because they didn't weren't aware of that.

[56:51] » Cool. Yeah. I think with the purchase of the Myers

[56:56] property, we plan to have all new signage down preserves.

[57:01] That's great. >> And things like that.

[57:05] » Yeah. Yeah.

[57:08] You know, the one thing that I didn't see anywhere,

[57:13] and I know that it has come up recently is addressing hazard trees

[57:21] or or maybe I didn't read it mostly enough to see it. Um, is that

[57:28] in here somewhere that I might have missed?

[57:34] I thought there was but that added

[57:40] » there's vegetation mention hazardous trees just invasive no

[57:48] weeds um

[57:54] and the one thing that I think it's important to do

[57:58] [clears throat] with with hazard trees is

[58:02] you actually need to have, and this would be a recommendation, have a

[58:07] certified arborist who's actually certified in hazard trees because

[58:12] there's arborists and then there's arborists that know hazard trees.

[58:15] There's not that many around to actually come through and give recommendations.

[58:21] Um, which is, you know, uh, it's good and bad because soon as

[58:27] you know about the hazard, we got to address them. Um, but I as I parked

[58:31] underneath parked there, I looked up, make sure I'm not parked, there's not

[58:36] widow makers or something in the cottonwood that's going to fall on my

[58:39] car while I'm down there. And by not, I mean, probably 90% of people have no

[58:45] idea. They should roll in their park and away they go. Um

[58:49] and then uh anyway I know it's be it's become a little bit of a [clears throat]

[58:56] of a concern regarding it's like when you have infrastructure like a parking

[59:02] area um then you have something to protect or to actually address. But when

[59:09] you just have trails that go through um those don't necessarily need to you

[59:15] don't need to mitigate every single hazard. associated with every single

[59:18] trail. >> Yeah.

[59:19] » Um but I think that would be maybe important to to to add add to this would

[59:25] be um uh the mitigation has trees. Um and then

[59:31] maybe put some type of a definition on that.

[59:35] Um

[59:38] is this you want people to be safe and don't want vehicles or people or anybody

[59:44] else to be injured damage.

[1:00:13] Maybe the last thing I guess once this will go down city council

[1:00:18] going to run through the parks committee once I a recommendation from both of you

[1:00:24] that is more or less cohesive go

[1:00:31] and then land trust and the friends They'll have good approve it on there.

[1:00:57] Any

[1:01:04] other significant changes from the current?

[1:01:12] » I don't believe so. Most of it is formatting

[1:01:17] other than things that I mentioned formatting. Uh

[1:01:21] some wording tweaks for clarity. Well, it's the same [clears throat]

[1:02:12] Um,

[1:02:26] I see a fair amount of um

[1:02:35] a fair amount of bicycle usage there. Um I don't

[1:02:43] I don't have a an objection to it.

[1:02:51] I think my preference would be to not have like

[1:02:56] no bicycle signs there. Um,

[1:03:01] you know, obviously that's not really an,

[1:03:08] you know, potentially we, you know, limit them to the to the ADA portion of

[1:03:12] the trail. Um, but I think, you know, it's a nice place to ride a

[1:03:19] bike. Um, my 16-year-old is not particularly

[1:03:25] interested in mountain biking there, but my 5-year-old and my 8-year-old think

[1:03:29] it's a great place to mountain bike. Um, you know, so they really enjoy the

[1:03:35] single track. And I realized that, you know, a 5-year-old and an 8-year-old is

[1:03:39] a very different kind of impact than

[1:03:45] uh a real [clears throat] mountain biking

[1:03:48] adult um in terms of speed and hazard to walkers and stuff like that. And I I

[1:03:55] realize you can't write the regulations around that, but it would be a shame to

[1:04:02] have for for me personally, it would be a shame to have a

[1:04:07] no bicycles sign at the entrance to the park. I think that would that would be a

[1:04:13] disappointment to a lot of people and I think it would be uh you know the the

[1:04:19] impact that I see of bikes there is is low.

[1:04:24] So, I would, you know, if we're talking about signage

[1:04:28] and and you know, what's a rule versus what's a

[1:04:34] guideline, I'm not quite sure how you

[1:04:39] parse that out, but that would be a a bit of input that I would have. Is there

[1:04:45] a specific section that you're looking at that

[1:04:52] » uh in the [clears throat]

[1:04:56] in the customary public use permissible regular

[1:05:04] public access currently allows for passive activities such as hiking, bird

[1:05:08] watching, fishing, cross-country skiing, photography, and snowshoeing. I'm I'm

[1:05:12] comfortable with that language, with that verbiage. Um, I'm just thinking as

[1:05:16] we're as we're moving towards, you know, all new signage and that kind of thing,

[1:05:22] having that as a as a rule or a signed

[1:05:28] uh regulation, I would be

[1:05:34] I don't know if I'd say I'm against it, but I would be I'd be bummed, let's put

[1:05:38] it that way, if that was on the sign. It's not allowed.

[1:05:44] » It doesn't say they are or are not. Uh, it says, oh, 4.1, public access within

[1:05:51] the preserve is intended to be pedestrian only. A bicycle wreck is

[1:05:55] provided near the Martin Lane parking area and others may be installed at

[1:05:58] other entrances in the future. Motorized juice is prohibited. Totally fine with

[1:06:03] that. Um, and I think ebikes totally should be included in that. Um,

[1:06:10] so that that to me is where it gets a

[1:06:14] little, you know, a little fuzzy like, you know,

[1:06:18] » I have to agree with you. I didn't think we would have a bicycle back 20 years

[1:06:24] ago. >> But lately, we've had a lot of kids that

[1:06:28] just don't respect pedestrians riding bicycles.

[1:06:32] I don't know how to stop that, you know. And some some adults are not very polite

[1:06:38] either. They don't warn you when you're coming by

[1:06:41] » and it's increased and you know

[1:06:46] » and also you know a lot of kids have these little motorcycles are they

[1:06:50] electric bikes? >> They're trying to use those in the

[1:06:53] preserve. >> Yeah.

[1:06:54] » And they don't understand that they're a vehicle. Have to stop two or three kids

[1:06:59] say walk that bike out of here. Mhm. >> So, it's something we need to address.

[1:07:04] » I I don't disagree. Um I think I think the ebikes thing for me is a that's an

[1:07:10] easy one. Like um I don't think that's a place for

[1:07:16] » gas or electric motors. Um, you know, I think I think possibly

[1:07:23] because another thing that, you know, our our more like, you know, middle-aged

[1:07:29] pre-teen kids actually use that as a, you know, as a way to get into town. Um,

[1:07:36] that is, you know, it's off of Main Street. It's a safe, you know, a safe

[1:07:41] place to, you know, it's a it's a corridor that they use to, you know, for

[1:07:47] transportation through town. Um, >> that I need to go look at something,

[1:07:52] » which is a lot of days. >> I have a bike. I

[1:07:57] » Yep. >> Absolutely. And and I think there's a,

[1:08:02] you know, there's maybe a middle ground where the where the single track down in

[1:08:07] the down in the river bottom.

[1:08:12] I don't know. I having trails that are and trails that aren't allowed I I think

[1:08:16] would be getting into a pretty thorny difficult enforcement

[1:08:22] condition. Um I think

[1:08:26] to to me I think some signage you know at the at the entrances to the park you

[1:08:32] know that this is primarily a pedestrian area. cyclists be respectful of

[1:08:38] pedestrians that something like that could be a a good kind of middle ground.

[1:08:44] Uh because I it would be a shame to to to prohibit them. I think

[1:08:53] I would follow that up with installing more bike decks,

[1:08:59] urge people to park in. >> Yeah. I hope all this new signage will

[1:09:03] address those kinds of things. really do to me the signage.

[1:09:07] » Yeah. >> 20 years old.

[1:09:11] » Yeah. When I was gone down like [clears throat] you know [laughter]

[1:09:16] this fence, which is fine, but it's also really hard

[1:09:20] for that. >> Yeah. Um, and then also you want to make

[1:09:24] sure when you have your your pike stations is

[1:09:28] close to where people can, you know, go hang out the canal and, you know,

[1:09:36] don't like that to walk up their bike. So it's so it's right close by. It's

[1:09:41] what it is instead of at the far end of the parking lot where you can't get to

[1:09:46] it.

[1:09:50] Yeah, and I would agree with the no definitely no

[1:09:56] motorized because well that's already says on motorized but then I would even

[1:09:59] compare with >> you know it's such it's not like it's a

[1:10:04] a designated trail system like place for young kids to go ride around whatever

[1:10:10] but for like to go for a mile bike ride through an hour preserve is not where

[1:10:14] most people are going >> so I

[1:10:18] webin. [laughter]

[1:10:23] » Yeah, I think proper signage kind of gets the point across of what the

[1:10:27] managing partners would encourage. Bike racks kind of help suggest market.

[1:10:43] Anything else?

[1:10:48] I think I'm comfortable with the rest of it.

[1:11:10] » Great. Uh the notes I have for edits uh is the

[1:11:16] uh

[1:11:21] section to allow for hazard tree removal. Vegetation management section

[1:11:26] hazard removal when identified by license arbit

[1:11:31] scale wind hazard tree identification uh and then allowing acoustic bikes

[1:11:38] uh and adding additional bike racks at all entrances. Did

[1:11:43] » you say acoustic bikes? Yes,

[1:11:48] » I like it. [laughter] Guitar

[1:11:59] » nonmplified. [laughter]

[1:12:11] » Well, we need a motion, Brian. I like that motion.

[1:12:19] » I'll take it back at it. Uh, I move to

[1:12:26] recommend approval of the power preserve management plan

[1:12:34] with the suggested

[1:12:41] uh adjustments regarding

[1:12:46] bicycle usage. Tree

[1:12:51] Hazard tree. >> Hazard tree maintenance.

[1:12:57] » Bike racks >> and bike racks.

[1:13:02] All [clears throat] set. All >> right. I passes.

[1:13:06] » Okay.

[1:13:09] [clears throat] All right.

[1:13:15] Okay. For pass this hurdle. [laughter]

[1:13:21] Yeah. Okay. Now we're on to old business.

[1:13:25] » Thank you. >> Yeah. You're welcome.

[1:13:27] » Thanks for coming. >> See you.

[1:13:29] » Thanks for >> um CU 260.

[1:13:36] » Thanks. >> Uh CU 2601

[1:13:42] for expansion.

[1:13:46] [clears throat]

[1:13:49] Okay. So, here we are.

[1:13:53] Uh, [snorts] this one was in front of you guys in June, I believe. It been a

[1:13:58] little bit. Um, but it is back today. Uh, they've

[1:14:04] updated their plans primarily. Uh, the main difference

[1:14:08] is the landscape plan. We've added five additional

[1:14:13] uh Colorado spruce along the northern edge of the property roughly 25

[1:14:20] to 30 feet on center. Uh they I mean you all know how the screw

[1:14:27] is. It's going to get big and bushy eventually and those are all kind of

[1:14:32] touched together wall.

[1:14:38] Um, other than that, site plan appears to be about the same. Cal Johnson and

[1:14:42] David Hicks are online and can answer any questions.

[1:14:50] Um, [clears throat]

[1:14:59] » hey, so my my first question and this is to you guys. Um,

[1:15:07] a lot of Colorado spruce in the valley. [sighs]

[1:15:11] Kind of nice to see some different types of trees.

[1:15:15] Um, and one that I would maybe recommend

[1:15:19] would be best drop that does well in here in the valley spun.

[1:15:25] Um, tall provides some screen. >> Um,

[1:15:30] I don't know how you guys feel about that for them. [clears throat]

[1:15:34] Uh, I am a much bigger fan of Ponderos of Pine than I am the Blue Spruce. Um,

[1:15:42] we're actually working on a project in our at my house and we're going to have

[1:15:48] to take some trees out and I'm doing everything I can to keep the the ponder.

[1:15:54] I've got a I don't know a handful of good mature ponderosas and a handful of

[1:15:59] good mature blue spruce. And I am getting rid of every spruce that I can

[1:16:03] to save every ponderosa that I can. [laughter]

[1:16:08] » Sounds like you could be a bit of that then. Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat]

[1:16:12] » Yeah. Yeah. >> They're just way prettier trees. Long

[1:16:15] softer needles and the big pine cones and they're just

[1:16:21] » to me they're they're a much more attractive tree.

[1:16:24] » Yeah. >> Yeah. So, one thing to keep in mind is

[1:16:27] that as ponderos pine matures, they tend to drop below branches. So, you just

[1:16:34] have >> the base of the stone.

[1:16:39] That is an outside. >> Yeah, you're not going to have say

[1:16:43] visual history. >> Yeah.

[1:16:46] » Um I [clears throat] do wonder about

[1:16:51] because the other tree was maple tree. >> Yeah, it was a maple maple

[1:16:57] » to like um [clears throat] because the one thing Yeah.

[1:17:03] I'm not a professional landscaper, but I do know a little bit about it. But just

[1:17:06] to have like a wall of any I don't care what it's one species of thing. It just

[1:17:11] makes a wall and maybe to inter um to interace that with maybe a maple or or

[1:17:22] something else. [clears throat] So where it's not just a wall of whatever type of

[1:17:26] a pine tree it is. It's got maybe two and one and we got a few more to kind of

[1:17:31] mix that diversity up. Diversity is good too because if one gets diseased it

[1:17:38] carries over to the next. So by having different species and

[1:17:43] different types limit your risk of everything

[1:17:50] out by one bug or one fungus. >> Yeah.

[1:17:54] » And yeah it does it brings a lot greater visual variety

[1:18:01] monoculture. Yeah. Well, and then in addition to that, it's like to go, you

[1:18:06] know, it looked like they stopped right there where the um

[1:18:11] where the employee parking stops, you know, it's like [clears throat] yet

[1:18:16] there's still, you know, two/ird of the lot or twoirds of yeah,

[1:18:21] the lot that goes back to the west. I just didn't like to see those those

[1:18:26] trees extend all the way to the head of the property.

[1:18:30] Um so, we're providing screening. um for the the inventory storage area. I

[1:18:36] realize there's fence around it, but >> yeah, got dog woods and other things

[1:18:41] specified along the fence.

[1:18:53] [clears throat]

[1:18:55] » I see a lot of trees. >> You would or Yeah. Yeah.

[1:19:01] » Right. trees, two, three different species, coniferous, deciduous.

[1:19:10] See, if you did, if you did that, ran it all the way back to the back corner when

[1:19:13] you wouldn't necessarily got need anything there in front of the fence.

[1:19:20] um or you get up

[1:19:25] uh

[1:19:29] and kind of to Brian's point end up putting some there or something

[1:19:34] then you do have some lower shrubs and you still

[1:19:39] so that's probably be a good idea to keep

[1:20:00] And then I'm not What's the What's Can you see the back of that inventory

[1:20:06] storage area from down below anywhere? Is that like visually

[1:20:11] um a visual to anyone.

[1:20:20] » This is owned by the airport. This is the ranch bar, I believe.

[1:20:27] Uh

[1:20:30] potentially if this parcel were to get developed at some point in the future,

[1:20:37] there may be some

[1:20:41] opportunity to see something, but it would be questionable whether that

[1:20:46] Yeah.

[1:20:56] And you know the reason I throw that out is like you know we are talking about

[1:21:00] [clears throat] you know conserving water but yeah we're creating something

[1:21:03] but something that nobody can see and we're just

[1:21:07] maybe isn't a good use of resources.

[1:21:45] I'll just throw out a couple other things that um

[1:21:49] unless we want to stick with vegetation for a moment.

[1:21:53] » Um on that other stuff I'd like to talk about.

[1:21:58] » Okay. So, well, you want to go ahead with your

[1:22:01] » Yeah. Why don't you go with what >> Okay.

[1:22:04] Um no particular order. you know, if there's the the fence, the one thing

[1:22:09] that I think that that fence needs to be, because we're talking about

[1:22:14] basically, if not mistaken, has a chain link fence with SL in it or whatever,

[1:22:18] right? >> Is for that fence to be black.

[1:22:21] Um, and you've seen it in different places. There's you can have a black

[1:22:26] chain link fence. Um, and it is way nicer visually, way less visually in

[1:22:34] your face than a silver, you know, than the galvanized beds.

[1:22:38] » Um, so I would [clears throat] I think we

[1:22:42] ought I recommend that be black and then

[1:22:48] Yeah. Then they rubberized or coated with no

[1:22:54] slats with slats. Well, see that's

[1:22:59] » those flats. I mean, they look good on day one, maybe, but they sort of

[1:23:03] » they look tolerable on day one. [laughter]

[1:23:08] » They don't last. >> They provide the screening until

[1:23:11] something hits it. >> Yeah. And then it's we get into a

[1:23:17] maintenance issue for them and for us. And what does that look like? place that

[1:23:24] um

[1:23:28] you know I what I would recommend is >> [clears throat]

[1:23:32] » um and maybe I'll just bring it up is show you guys a picture um I

[1:23:40] mentioned this before with the um

[1:23:45] the city of Ketchum and they're um uh down up there

[1:23:52] by the elementary school. They've got some things that they actually put on

[1:23:57] the fence and it actually looks like a mountainscape.

[1:24:01] Um, and I took a picture of it here when I was up there last and and it's

[1:24:27] um and maybe the one thing that you you're okay with it. If we go to Can you

[1:24:33] bring up um like Google Maps

[1:24:41] since I'm having a hard time finding this cool

[1:24:44] and just go to the [clears throat]

[1:24:48] And you can go to street view. Oh, here it is. Of course, nobody's going to be

[1:24:52] able to see it. So,

[1:25:00] And that's

[1:25:08] one you have to go over by the other side of

[1:25:13] the field. Oh yeah,

[1:25:21] just have to go that way a little bit more.

[1:25:26] » A little bit more. Yeah, right where those cars are parked.

[1:25:31] And then if you look back to the

[1:25:43] go a little bit further to the to where the raw cars are.

[1:25:52] And you can of course there's some shrubs there and stuff. Can't really

[1:25:56] tell.

[1:26:00] You can kind of mesh you kind of the one thing on that on that that fence is of

[1:26:06] course in that picture there's fabric there. So there's it's not a true

[1:26:10] representation. There's a black fence but then there's some mesh but then the

[1:26:14] the light blue is kind of like you can see it's kind of like a mountain

[1:26:18] silhouette. Um, yeah. And it helps break up the

[1:26:23] continuity of the Um, >> Can you send me that photo so that I can

[1:26:29] share it with the applicants? >> Yeah. Um, I was going to see, is there a

[1:26:34] way that I can do this so you can put it up there? Can I email

[1:26:38] it to you? >> Yeah, you can email it to me.

[1:26:40] [clears throat]

[1:27:05] Yeah. Um

[1:27:14] yeah, I mean something like that. Um, I would be in favor of trying to

[1:27:23] to do and then then you could, you know, not have the slats coming down and then

[1:27:29] just provide a little bit of a because I think where people will see it is, you

[1:27:33] know, when they're of course driving in to go to the gas station, you'll have

[1:27:38] some of the vegetation [clears throat] there where

[1:27:41] people drive by, but then you will be able to see through to that fence,

[1:27:46] » you where the storage area is. So to have

[1:27:49] something along um along that section of the fence

[1:27:53] » well that will probably still give them you know visual screening as well

[1:27:58] because I'm sure a big concern for them is security

[1:28:02] anything back there >> right

[1:28:04] » so it kind of accomplishes both

[1:28:11] [clears throat]

[1:28:18] I think that's one thing that I would throw out.

[1:28:30] » You like to hear from the applicants? >> Uh, sure.

[1:28:38] » David, >> is that is that my queue?

[1:28:40] » Yeah. >> Can you all hear me? Okay.

[1:28:43] » Yep. >> Perfect. Uh well, good evening,

[1:28:47] commissioners. Uh my name is David Hicks with the Carl Malone Group. Um I believe

[1:28:51] that a few of us have met before. U I would just maybe speak to a couple of

[1:28:55] things that you've said so far. Um first of all, about the trees, we're very open

[1:29:01] to whatever tree configuration uh that you guys like best. If you want to have

[1:29:06] us break them up a little bit with some different species or run them a little

[1:29:09] bit further down that property line, uh we would be uh very amicable to that uh

[1:29:15] as an approval condition. Um as far as the fence goes, um we would be uh happy

[1:29:23] to do a black fence. You are 100% right about a black fence uh looking much

[1:29:28] better. We have some black fences in some of our other locations um and they

[1:29:33] are way less noticeable than a galvanized fence. So, we agree with you

[1:29:37] and that's a great idea uh that you had for that. So, we would be very open to

[1:29:42] that. Um as far as the um last graphic that you

[1:29:48] showed with the, you know, mountain scheme on it, I like that. Love the feel

[1:29:52] of it. My only concern would be you can see through that much more than you can

[1:29:58] see through uh the slats. I can understand that the slats, you know,

[1:30:03] your concern that they're maybe not the most aesthetic or whatnot. Um but I just

[1:30:09] would my concern is like I think somebody mentioned is security. And so

[1:30:13] that's what that's what we're looking for is uh is security in that fenced

[1:30:17] area that everybody can't see what's in there. Um, but I I think as long as far

[1:30:23] as the that issue goes, we're open once again as an approval condition to what

[1:30:29] y'all uh uh like or what you feel is best. Um, maybe there's a combination of

[1:30:36] of something we could do there. Um, but you know, our our main main focus is the

[1:30:43] security of that area cuz we're going to have, you know, mult multiple millions

[1:30:48] of dollars worth of inventory potentially in that area at depending on

[1:30:52] what time of year it is. So, um, one other thing that I wanted to mention is,

[1:30:58] um, since the last meeting, there was a couple of things that were concerns

[1:31:02] that, uh, that you all had. Um, one of them was the trees.

[1:31:09] I'm sorry. Did I missed something?

[1:31:15] Okay. Uh, anyways, one of them was the trees, which is why we made that change,

[1:31:20] uh, so that when you're coming down the highway, you'd be able to see that. The

[1:31:23] other one was a snow storage concern. And what we did on that is we actually

[1:31:27] added a gate uh on the back of that fenced area so that we would uh be able

[1:31:34] to it would be able to accommodate the snow storage a little bit better um to

[1:31:38] get the snow out of that fenced area. So we'd have the option to bring the snow

[1:31:42] out the front or out the back of that fenced area. I believe that was on the

[1:31:47] recommendation of uh the commission. Anyhow, I kind of did a lot of talking

[1:31:52] there. If y'all have any questions for me, I'm happy to answer them. But, uh,

[1:31:57] you know, we're we are happy to, uh, make any adjustments that y'all see fit.

[1:32:06] » See back if we're missing that. >> Yeah, David. I think not sure if that

[1:32:12] just got omitted from these plans or if I'm not seeing this.

[1:32:17] » Yeah, these plans are from July 8th. I'll hop over to the civil

[1:32:23] site plan. That'll show it real clear.

[1:32:31] Yeah, that C1 right there is the one.

[1:32:44] » Okay, there it is. >> Yep.

[1:32:46] » Yeah. And then also with respect to the question if anything could be visible

[1:32:51] from below. This is set back off the property line. And not only that,

[1:32:57] there's, you know, at the moment, nothing uh what's the what would that

[1:33:00] direction be west of there? There'd be nothing west of there. And as Brian

[1:33:04] pointed out, you know, if we were to develop this and build a actual building

[1:33:08] there, that could possibly change, but obviously that would invol involve a

[1:33:12] whole another uh P&Z review at that point. But this is set back off the

[1:33:18] property line to accommodate for that snow storage and um also that ditch

[1:33:23] easement uh that runs behind that that piece.

[1:33:48] » [clears throat]

[1:33:54] » And I'm sorry, quick question. What was the species of uh pine that was being

[1:33:59] recommended? >> Ponderosa pine.

[1:34:04] » Oh, yeah. Ponderosa. We agree with you. That's a great tree.

[1:34:08] We'd be happy to mix those in.

[1:34:13] or have them all that. Whatever y'all recommend.

[1:34:19] [clears throat and cough]

[1:34:39] Well, it's so with the we got maybe resolve this slats

[1:34:51] because I'm like the one thing I get the security side of it but then also it's

[1:34:54] like we want to see what's behind that's not likeable to the eye

[1:35:01] through so I don't know if I totally get the

[1:35:08] the being able to see through there, but then also on the flip side of it, you

[1:35:13] can see through there and the marshall drives by, you see somebody back mess

[1:35:16] around, you know, you actually take some action

[1:35:20] versus if it's slanted up there, then it's like somebody go back there, pretty

[1:35:24] easy to jump fence and do whatever they want to do. So, it kind of goes both

[1:35:28] ways, I think, from the security side of things.

[1:35:32] At least that's the way I would view it, unless there's something missing there.

[1:35:40] If you all like that fabric material that we could put on the front of that,

[1:35:43] we'd be open to that. No problem. >> Well, the one thing with that picture

[1:35:48] that Brian showed you there, there is I [clears throat] would not recommend the

[1:35:52] fabric because that's just one thing that's going to deteriorate. You're

[1:35:55] going to have to replace periodically. But if we wanted to break up the

[1:35:58] continuity of this, the fence itself would be the because those that actually

[1:36:03] that that art that's attached to the fence, it's metal.

[1:36:07] Um, so it's it's cut metal that's attached to the fence. So it's going to

[1:36:11] be there that color [clears throat]

[1:36:16] probably associated with that, you know, artwork,

[1:36:20] so to speak.

[1:36:24] » So just to make sure I'm understanding, are you saying like the little mountain

[1:36:27] graphic that's on there, that's actually like a a metal piece that's maybe cut

[1:36:31] out on a table that then they put on the fence and then the fabric is behind

[1:36:35] that? Yeah. Yeah. This is a I would [clears throat] like to say I would not

[1:36:39] recommend the fabric. Yeah. In the picture that's exactly right. The fabric

[1:36:42] is I think the fabric is on the inside of the fence and then the the the

[1:36:48] mountaincape is on the the outside. Um but I wouldn't recommend the fabric

[1:36:56] for this reason. They probably want additional screening. But for for what

[1:37:01] we're dealing with, it's just one more thing to go wrong.

[1:37:07] » Understood.

[1:37:10] » Um but [clears throat] some type of a it's

[1:37:13] you know pretty pretty simple design but also represent the um you know the

[1:37:19] surrounding hillside topography

[1:37:23] so >> yeah we could do that.

[1:37:28] What I've got down is a artistic gateway feature.

[1:37:38] Um,

[1:37:41] we're good on. So, one other thing, I'm not sure if

[1:37:46] this could be accommodated or not, but it's

[1:37:50] Go ahead. >> I suggest that we might be getting the

[1:37:53] cart ahead of the horse a little bit here. Um,

[1:37:58] I am still

[1:38:03] somewhat uncomfortable with I just

[1:38:10] So, we've got 160ish

[1:38:15] parking spaces on the existing facility. We have an application for 60 more. So,

[1:38:22] that would bring it to 220ish. And if that is what the applicant needs,

[1:38:29] then I'm really struggling with why they didn't stripe their parking lot for

[1:38:37] the 227 spaces that were on the approved plans for the

[1:38:44] » for the original facility. M [clears throat] like

[1:38:49] why do we need to make the gateway to the city be a parking lot to accommodate

[1:38:54] something that would have been accommodated if it was built as approved

[1:39:05] » to me it just extends what feels like a I don't want to name a particular city

[1:39:14] but It it's taking what feels like a strip

[1:39:19] development that is not the the character that I and most of the

[1:39:27] people that I talked to want Bellev to be. And it's extending that parking lot

[1:39:32] strip commercial development feel, you know, another lot to the north. And

[1:39:37] we're and at that point we're out of room to

[1:39:43] have something else go in there to make that not be the I mean what it does is

[1:39:49] it it puts an endpoint on that northward

[1:39:54] development because nothing else is going to go north of there. Um, and it

[1:39:59] just cements that that commercial strip development as what is at the north end

[1:40:04] of town and makes that the gateway. >> Um,

[1:40:10] and I don't like it. And I don't and I really don't like that that it is being

[1:40:17] built as a necessity because the applicant didn't

[1:40:24] follow through on building out the facility that we're now trying to

[1:40:29] remediate um based on what was approved.

[1:40:36] » Is it okay if I ask a question? >> Sure. Yeah.

[1:40:42] What? I don't I don't know anything about the facility current the current

[1:40:47] facility not being built as approved and that we didn't build it as approved. So

[1:40:53] that that's affecting this. I think the whole thing to my knowledge was built as

[1:40:57] it was approved. So my understanding is the is the design

[1:41:02] review for the original um for the dealership uh had 227

[1:41:11] uh striped parking spaces which was a concession. Um you know by by code it

[1:41:19] should have had 360. Um and so it was a concession that you

[1:41:24] guys said oh we don't need that much parking. uh we'll be fine with 227. And

[1:41:29] so that was what was approved in the design review process

[1:41:34] um for the for the dealership. And then when it got built out, uh you currently,

[1:41:43] my understanding, I haven't gone and counted them. My understanding is you've

[1:41:46] got 154 standard parking spaces, um

[1:41:53] four handicapped accessible and six trailer parking spaces.

[1:41:57] on site. So you're well under half of what would

[1:42:03] normally be required by code and you are coincidentally about 60 short of what

[1:42:09] was on your site plan when you built the dealership.

[1:42:16] » [clears throat] >> So, this is the first time that I've

[1:42:19] ever heard that what you just said that that we asked said that we didn't need

[1:42:25] this many spots as we had planned and that we put in less than we had planned.

[1:42:30] I have I haven't heard that. Maybe you can speak to that, Cal. Um, but there

[1:42:35] was also some um I believe there was some confusion

[1:42:41] with the parking calculations, not when the dealership was built, but recently

[1:42:46] in some of the reports there was uh some parking calculations that I believe were

[1:42:52] maybe not correct. So, I don't have the exact information in front of me to tell

[1:42:57] you that that's not the case, but I have not heard that before and I don't

[1:43:02] believe it's the case. But I would have to maybe get some more information on

[1:43:05] that

[1:43:11] [clears throat] >> because that's what you're referring to

[1:43:13] that the approved building permit plan had

[1:43:19] » straight parking >> all along here all through here all here

[1:43:24] down here and the actual construction plan omitted

[1:43:33] everything along the new fence area, converted a bunch of it to trailer

[1:43:37] parking. >> Yep.

[1:43:39] » Did not include any. >> Yep.

[1:43:42] » Okay. >> Yeah. There's a lot of parking that's on

[1:43:44] your original site plan that is not on the ground right now. And

[1:43:50] yeah, what you've got up, Brian, is a I think a very uh

[1:43:56] clear picture of that. So, I think maybe the confusion is for

[1:44:01] me then is what you're talking about is mostly what's actually striped versus

[1:44:07] what's not striped because there's some of that parking that is being used as

[1:44:12] parking and they are parking spaces. We just opted not to actually stripe the

[1:44:18] spots. Is that maybe where some of that difference is coming in?

[1:44:23] » Maybe a little bit, but not the majority of it.

[1:44:30] Can you see Can you see Brian's spit split screen here with the satellite and

[1:44:35] the and the >> site plan?

[1:44:38] » Yes.

[1:44:41] So to the north of that storage facility,

[1:44:45] there are a there are a bunch of striped parking spaces on the site plan. And it

[1:44:52] doesn't look to me like those are being used for vehicle parking

[1:44:58] » to the south of that. >> And then you've got

[1:45:03] to the east of that storage area. Um,

[1:45:12] there's a there's a bunch of right angle vehicle parking on the site plan and

[1:45:18] on the ground there's a bunch of [clears throat] a bunch of trailer

[1:45:23] parking. And then at the south edge of the

[1:45:28] property, it looks like there's eightish spots on this on the site plan that are

[1:45:35] not being used for vehicle parking. Uh and then

[1:45:44] to the Yeah, just

[1:45:48] all over the place, man. There's there are spaces that are on the site plan as

[1:45:57] striped vehicle parking that are not being used for striped vehicle parking

[1:46:01] that are being used for like inventory storage and

[1:46:07] angled trailer parking and just it was not the parking lot was not

[1:46:14] striped as as [clears throat] approved and

[1:46:20] I I haven't gone through and counted vehicles or counted spaces or counted

[1:46:26] vehicles that are that are not in striped spaces, but it seems to me that

[1:46:33] that 160ish number, you know, that that 60 short of what was approved on the

[1:46:41] site plan >> looks like about what you've got on the

[1:46:44] ground. And And I mean,

[1:46:54] » so I can speak to a couple of those things if that if that's okay.

[1:46:58] » Um, and I I I can see why you're saying what you're saying, so I'm not I'm not

[1:47:02] trying to argue with you, but this picture that is up on the screen is not

[1:47:07] 100% representative. This is right after this was taken right after we paved that

[1:47:13] area. And so we had we hadn't even got the containers moved yet and all the

[1:47:18] other inventory is not there. So when you on that uh north side of the storage

[1:47:23] area that you're talking about um that is now all moved into the storage area.

[1:47:30] Also we added an entire row of parking that goes all the way across the front

[1:47:37] of that fence that is now on that storage area. So that would be facing

[1:47:42] the um east. Yes, you are correct that um a few of those spaces we turned into

[1:47:50] angled trailer parking which instead of them being dual spots

[1:47:54] um they are now they're now one spot for a truck and a trailer. So yes, I I see

[1:47:59] what you're saying there. But I g I guess at the end of the day whether

[1:48:05] those spots are striped or not, we're they're still being utilized

[1:48:11] um currently. And so we are still even if I go and stripe those spots next

[1:48:19] week, it still doesn't create necessarily more space for me because I

[1:48:23] got inventory sitting around taking up some of those spaces. Um,

[1:48:29] and at the end of the day, I still need more space. Even if they're striped, I

[1:48:34] still it's it's a matter not of the spaces being striped, it's a matter of

[1:48:38] total space, period. So, you know, that's the need for this this

[1:48:43] other lot. Um, so, you know, obviously obviously to help park our employees as

[1:48:49] well. So, I I see what you're saying. I don't I don't 100% agree. That's just,

[1:48:55] hey, we didn't build it as we were supposed to have. I can see why you're

[1:48:58] saying that because there are some things that are different than the plan.

[1:49:00] So, yes, I agree there. But, um, with the inventory that we have and the

[1:49:07] employees that we have right now, yes, we're all on that lot currently today.

[1:49:11] We are all on that lot, but we got 5 lbs of stuff in a 10 or 2 lb bag, I think

[1:49:18] the saying, or something like that. 10 pounds of stuff in a 5B bag. How's that?

[1:49:23] Anyways, uh, yeah. So regardless of how many spaces are striped, we still need

[1:49:29] more space uh overall and that's what we're looking to do.

[1:49:41] One other thing, let me add to that. There is another lot that we have that

[1:49:46] is on the north side of this what we're proposing for this parking lot. So,

[1:49:52] there still is a space between this lot and the airport property. It is correct

[1:49:58] that it is not technically in the city of Belleview, but there is another lot

[1:50:03] there that will have some sort of development on it. And so, this won't

[1:50:07] necessarily just be the absolute edge of Belleview or edge of the development.

[1:50:12] Let's say that it is the edge of Belleview, but it will not be the edge

[1:50:15] of the development um going to the north. There will still be something

[1:50:20] else there at some point. Uh that will be the edge of the development.

[1:50:26] It will It's not in the city, however. It's in technically in the county. Maybe

[1:50:31] we can annex it. Who knows? [laughter]

[1:51:04] I see where you're at. I definitely understand that cuz I feel

[1:51:10] like

[1:51:13] the the parking lot, you know, it's going to be a book end whether you like

[1:51:18] it or not. It is. And we're asking the citizens to make a

[1:51:23] concession for a plan that wasn't implemented,

[1:51:29] right? What was what was approved, what was required,

[1:51:33] and what wasn't implemented by the business.

[1:51:38] Um, you know, looking at that aerial map on the left, you can see a lot of

[1:51:45] a lot of the spaces that should be used for parking are being used for equipment

[1:51:49] storage. And yet, you have this very large fenced in storage yard

[1:51:56] that potentially, I mean, this is a snapshot in time, but potentially

[1:52:01] doesn't have it's not being utilized.

[1:52:10] I can assure you it's chuck full right now. [laughter]

[1:52:14] It's stacked.

[1:52:24] I just I'm going back to that meeting.

[1:52:31] What was it three or four weeks ago where we had a handful of public comment

[1:52:37] talking about

[1:52:41] the style of development there that is you know

[1:52:48] to my memory there were there were at least

[1:52:54] at least a few folks who stood up and said you know

[1:53:00] that style of development belongs in Twin Falls. It doesn't belong in Belio.

[1:53:04] Um you know the the

[1:53:10] all that asphalt the the the style of the you know just

[1:53:16] the the style of the development is not doesn't fit with the character that

[1:53:24] to my mind most Bellev residents want Bellev to look like. And

[1:53:30] just extending more parking is a continuation of that.

[1:53:42] A good point to uh mention this is a public hearing and there might still be

[1:53:46] somebody online wishing to comment.

[1:53:54] » Is there [clears throat] any iss Yeah.

[1:53:59] I'm guessing. Okay. >> Hi guys. Uh Evan Stelma 111 Tendoy.

[1:54:06] Um this has been a very interesting meeting. I did speak at the last one. Um

[1:54:13] I would love to have you guys think about putting a fence. If you want to do

[1:54:18] this there, put a fence that looks like Sawtooth Plumbings. It looks good.

[1:54:24] They've landscaped it well and it's not awful for everybody else to look at.

[1:54:32] Obviously, I'd rather not have something that looks like a parking lot. Um, your

[1:54:39] other dealership building, you've got weeds

[1:54:44] all around it. It looks terrible right now. If you guys

[1:54:48] brought your landscape guys in every month or so to pull the weeds, go down

[1:54:54] the hill down Curtly, make it look nice. We live here. We care about our town.

[1:55:00] Um, we're trying to be good neighbors to you guys and we appreciate that you guys

[1:55:07] are considering doing the same. I think we still have some trees coming um on

[1:55:13] the main dealership area and we haven't seen those. Um wrap the trees around the

[1:55:21] back. It will make a difference. We have a very cold climate here. Stuff doesn't

[1:55:25] grow fast. Don't put tiny little things in that won't grow big and screen

[1:55:30] things. Um but please consider doing nice looking fencing. I don't

[1:55:38] consider chain link parking lot and storage areas with snow machine boxes

[1:55:44] um an attractive entrance to the town I live in. I chose to live here. Um I was

[1:55:50] born and raised in this valley. I love it here.

[1:55:54] But this is making it difficult for all of us to be proud of our town when this

[1:55:59] is what you look at. Um you've got the Maverick sign that is so bright it's

[1:56:05] appalling. Um, you guys did turn the lights down on the motorsports

[1:56:11] dealership. I appreciate that. But please just listen to what these guys

[1:56:16] are saying. Um, we want we want to have you succeed here, but we also want to be

[1:56:23] proud of what's here. So, add to the landscaping. Maple trees don't do well

[1:56:28] here. Listen to them as far as the different evergreens. That's a good good

[1:56:34] choice. So, thanks so much for uh giving me a chance to um air my opinions.

[1:56:43] » Thank you. >> Thanks, Alex. [clears throat]

[1:56:47] » Uh anyone else?

[1:56:52] [clears throat]

[1:56:56] » Okay, we'll go and close public comment.

[1:57:02] [clears throat]

[1:57:06] » [sighs] >> You know, I guess I I'll go back to, you

[1:57:09] know, I I said this multiple meetings ago that, [clears throat]

[1:57:14] you know, we're

[1:57:18] the business model they were trying to put into that is too big. And they they

[1:57:22] intentionally made a choice to make a lot smaller and now we're kind of

[1:57:28] suffering because of that.

[1:57:33] But that's that's their choice and that's where we are. And the one thing

[1:57:36] that I do wonder is terms of like like our ability to deny

[1:57:44] um this application to have a to not have this at all.

[1:57:58] So you are the sighting body on this. In order to approve it organized, you must

[1:58:03] go through the uh standards of approval for a conditional use permit and either

[1:58:08] find that it meets all of them or there is some point that they are deficient

[1:58:14] and there's no conditionable method for that to be

[1:58:20] helpful if I read through these and you guys discuss one by one.

[1:58:24] [clears throat and cough] 170.

[1:58:27] » I didn't think that

[1:58:32] there.

[1:58:40] [clears throat]

[1:58:46] » Yeah, probably should start here. >> Go ahead. Okay. A will in fact will in

[1:58:51] fact constitute a conditional use as established for the zoning district.

[1:59:00] » Y will be harmonious with and in accordance with the general objectives

[1:59:05] or with any specific objectives of the comprehensive plan and this time.

[1:59:15] So that's one where I have an issue.

[1:59:47] Uh, chapter Five, land use goal one objective one. Uh number five, just

[1:59:56] discourage strip commercial development.

[2:00:03] Uh number seven, ensure that new development fits. I'm on page 179

[2:00:11] the packet. Uh, number seven, ensure that new development fits in with

[2:00:17] Belleview's historic smalltown character and maintain its quality of life.

[2:00:38] I would also add in the promo infill or essentially taking away a viable

[2:00:45] lot to create a parking lot.

[2:00:51] Uh we've [clears throat] got language about gateway to the city also. Uh, I'm

[2:00:59] drawing a blank on where that was, >> but

[2:01:21] Yeah. Uh, yep. 5.4 on page 178. Uh, which have recognizable gateway

[2:01:29] entrances are needed to define city limits and be reinforced by signage,

[2:01:34] beautifification, and mark changes in the type, style, and intensity of land

[2:01:38] uses. And I mean to my mind going from agriculture to

[2:01:47] parking for strip development that's not the kind of marked change in the type

[2:01:51] style and intensity of land use that we're looking for.

[2:02:01] » [clears throat]

[2:02:03] » So I don't I don't disagree with you though and I'll

[2:02:07] challenge you on this and this is like okay we're so we're going to put a

[2:02:15] business or a building or whatever what is not strip development

[2:02:24] if you put anything up what's >> [clears throat]

[2:02:28] » That's a fair question. Uh,

[2:02:43] I mean, that's I know it's not a very satisfying answer, but it's the truth. I

[2:02:47] don't I don't know what you know

[2:02:52] doesn't belong to the city so we don't get to dictate what does go there. Um,

[2:03:00] and I wouldn't want to, but

[2:03:04] I think it is within our purview to say, you know, if something doesn't meet the

[2:03:14] the the

[2:03:18] goals laid out in the comprehensive plan, I I think we do have

[2:03:24] a place to say, you I don't know. I don't know what it is, but it's not

[2:03:29] this. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't have an

[2:03:33] answer either, >> but I do wonder. I mean,

[2:03:36] » I remember writing that in the comprehensive plan, you know, and

[2:03:40] everybody I'm like, and you're all for it, but then it's like, okay, as a

[2:03:45] strip, it's like an add strip mall when you have multiple businesses on separate

[2:03:49] lots. Is that considered strip development?

[2:03:53] You know, I don't know. We didn't. We certainly never defined it. I mean,

[2:03:56] that's that's verbatim. What's the confidence? So, it's like so is if we

[2:04:01] have somebody else brings us another proposal and they have a building to

[2:04:08] sell whatever, is that not stripped? Then,

[2:04:12] you know what I'm saying? It's it's kind of an awkward situation. Oh,

[2:04:16] » chair, >> chair, can I make a

[2:04:20] uh an observation here on these two sections about strip development?

[2:04:25] » Uh, sure. >> Um, both of these points say any

[2:04:30] reszoning of land outside the downtown core for business

[2:04:36] must be carefully analyzed to avoid strip development. So, these points are

[2:04:40] actually talking about reszonings on these goals.

[2:04:46] It seems like to me

[2:05:01] » where are you seeing that at? I'm not following you

[2:05:06] » whether it's the page 109 under chapter 5

[2:05:12] or page 178 under chapter 5 section 5.4. That bullet point that speaks to strip

[2:05:21] development does say any reszoning of land and then

[2:05:26] continues on to talk about strip developments and those types of things.

[2:05:37] I think we may be looking at different

[2:05:43] » Yeah, I was talking about the downtown core.

[2:05:48] » So, you were you were referencing page 178, right? The strip development on

[2:05:53] 178 of the packet. >> Yeah, that's where I am as well.

[2:05:59] So, I'm on towards the bottom of the page. We've got chapter 5, land use,

[2:06:06] section 5.4, concerns.

[2:06:10] » One of the unique qualities of Belleview is its visual appeal as a western

[2:06:13] mountain town. Critical concerns in maintaining this asset are bullet point

[2:06:18] one, talking about undeveloped lands. Bullet point two, recognizable gateway

[2:06:23] entrances are needed to define city limits and be reinforced by signage,

[2:06:27] beautifification, and marks changes in the type, style, and intensity of land

[2:06:31] uses. >> Right.

[2:06:33] » The next bullet point, any reasoning of land outside the damp time court for

[2:06:36] businesses uh and light industrial uses must be

[2:06:40] carefully analyzed to avoid strip development. Um, so that does reference

[2:06:47] resoning. But on the next page, we get to chapter 5, land use goal one,

[2:06:54] objective one. So this is not talking about reszoning.

[2:07:01] Foster a business climate that pri prioritizes the retention of existing

[2:07:04] businesses to attract new independent local businesses into the downtown

[2:07:09] commercial area. um and discourage drip development

[2:07:15] and incur ensure that new development fits in with Belle's historic small town

[2:07:19] character and maintain its quality of life. Those are action items in chapter

[2:07:24] 5, land use goal one, objective one that's not connected to resoning.

[2:07:30] » Gotcha. Is there like a definition section for strict development?

[2:07:38] No, but I will say that there there's been a lot of public comment over the

[2:07:44] last couple months, more than a couple months

[2:07:49] that that there's a there's a widespread community

[2:07:54] sentiment that uh that this pair of buildings at the north end of

[2:08:02] town have a very strict development-like feel. I've heard it referred to that

[2:08:08] » that way several times.

[2:08:15] [clears throat] >> I did find within the

[2:08:20] I pulled up the contra comprehensive plan the the full comprehensive plan

[2:08:24] document and it does talk about

[2:08:29] strip malls specifically there. um says avoid strip development, avoid

[2:08:37] strip commercial, the things that we just read. And then it does say

[2:08:44] prevent strip mall look within Belleview. speaking specifically towards

[2:08:48] national chain retail outlets and fast food rep frauds.

[2:09:27] » [clears throat]

[2:09:35] » So where it talks about a signage of the gateway to the city, is there a

[2:09:40] condition that could be put on that we could provide some signage or something

[2:09:44] that would make that um make that work.

[2:10:10] Yeah, I mean we're we're in a kind of a tough position because we we we

[2:10:16] have approved our model coming in. By the way, it didn't meet some of the

[2:10:20] specifications that we all envisioned, but

[2:10:24] um we all thought the member of the discussion building was going to look

[2:10:28] good. We were pleased with the mod. There's a lot of mod building

[2:10:33] and uh compared to what they came in with.

[2:10:37] Um and don't get me wrong, I'm not like trying to argue for this. I'm just I

[2:10:42] also don't want to keep us from getting in a pinch down the road too from

[2:10:48] something that poor decision making.

[2:10:55] And so, um, I I

[2:11:02] I just think we got to figure out a way to, well, I guess when it comes when it

[2:11:06] comes to this and to answer, you know, Cal's question, I think, you know, one

[2:11:11] thing that I had on my list is like we we don't have an entrance. Welcome to

[2:11:18] Belleview entrance sign from the north. Um, and but I was sitting here looking

[2:11:24] at the the this this particular owner the lot line for this is it probably is

[2:11:30] not a good place for a local ability because it's is going to be awkward and

[2:11:36] kind of janky with it needs to be on the lot to the north to the county. I don't

[2:11:41] know if that's something that we can address or not, but but to have

[2:11:46] something along that the you know the southbound traffic say a nice line would

[2:11:52] be a way that you could mitigate that um and provide

[2:12:01] um provide something that that we could could utilize.

[2:12:07] you know and if [clears throat] without that then

[2:12:11] it's probably you know maybe there's other ways to do that with the city

[2:12:16] right or the ITV right away or whatever maybe maybe not but it could be missed

[2:12:20] opportunity um if we I don't Brian if you have thoughts on that terms of the

[2:12:26] you know building sign but then the ITD has their rightway and whatever they're

[2:12:31] going to do with this the highway right there is there a wiggle room to put

[2:12:35] something like that And um may not have to answer that question

[2:12:40] right now. I won't put you on the spot, but you see where I'm going with this.

[2:12:46] An opportunity if we don't take that

[2:12:52] um to to mitigate that and to meet that particular

[2:12:58] um

[2:13:06] I think that yeah, a way to resign would be an appropriate condition of approval

[2:13:12] to potentially mitigate this discrepancy between their required

[2:13:17] finding and what being proposed. As far as doing it on-site or offsite, I

[2:13:24] would recommend not requiring offsite improvements unless the applicant is

[2:13:29] available to it. >> Yeah. But then one thing is if there's

[2:13:33] not room for it, then they're out of it.

[2:13:40] » Brian, can you do a Google search for the the sign at Sie Botanical Gardens?

[2:13:52] I mean, it's got a it's got a really nice landscape burm behind it that to my

[2:13:56] mind would provide the kind of visual screening that we're that we're looking

[2:14:00] for. And it's a really attractive um

[2:14:06] you know, the last thing I would want is a is a brightly lit billboard that says

[2:14:11] welcome to Belleview. Yeah. >> Uh

[2:14:18] » you don't want like a Las Vegas style one with all the lights and

[2:14:21] » Oh yeah, we could do neon. [laughter] >> I love it.

[2:14:28] That is one of the best signs I would >> Yeah. Valley

[2:14:42] » I think that's an artifact of the photos of the

[2:14:44] » That's what I'm saying.

[2:14:48] » Yeah, that's funny.

[2:14:54] garden. Um but that would be something you know

[2:15:00] especially if we you know if there was a

[2:15:06] so it's not just trees screening you know I know typically we would probably

[2:15:13] discourage like an earth and berm there but I think

[2:15:18] that might be a a situation where one could be appropriate

[2:15:24] um you know provide you know, provide a a backdrop for for a s, you know, for

[2:15:29] some some signage or or a welcome feature like that. Um,

[2:15:37] I don't know that that's something I could get on board with as

[2:15:42] um, you know, kind of dual purpose, providing that that gateway to the

[2:15:47] community. um providing some, you know, some more

[2:15:52] hard or solid visual screening from the parking area coming into town from the

[2:15:57] north. You know, you'll still see it if you look out your passenger side window

[2:16:02] driving into town, but to me, having that, you know, having that windshield

[2:16:06] view as you're coming into town from the north, that's a that's a pretty big

[2:16:10] deal. And this is kind of our one chance to do

[2:16:14] it >> and to provide some type of, you know, I

[2:16:17] don't want to mirror this, but to provide some type of texture

[2:16:20] » to it instead of just like a billboard sign or something or other, I think that

[2:16:24] would be um and material. I mean, that's with

[2:16:29] something like that. >> Yeah.

[2:16:31] » Even the Haley sign right there on Fox, it's nicely done.

[2:16:37] » Yeah. >> I prefer this.

[2:16:40] » Yeah. or something like that as well. That'd be I would lean toward that more

[2:16:45] than I would lean toward.

[2:16:49] » I would agree. >> I don't completely.

[2:16:59] » Yeah, it's it's going to be partially hidden by trees there

[2:17:04] hopefully. But yeah, that to me it just looks too

[2:17:16] something that that's not just one one plate, you know, that has some backdrop

[2:17:22] to it. But I would write that into a condition, but

[2:17:28] I think generally speaking, I would recommend

[2:17:32] against you guys being the judges of art.

[2:17:36] But you guys seem to have a lot of opinions on this. It may be appropriate

[2:17:39] to request that they come up with some concepts and bring them back to you guys

[2:17:43] for >> So with that though with looking at the

[2:17:48] property line, you know, I don't know if there if

[2:17:52] there's really room to put much in there.

[2:17:59] » The snow storage makes that tough. >> Yeah. Um

[2:18:05] cuz when I as I [clears throat] have driven by

[2:18:10] » Yeah, they would. >> It's uh the the location that I was

[2:18:16] thinking of was actually just just I mean just a teeny bit north of where the

[2:18:21] actual entrance is to that, you know, the current entrance off the

[2:18:26] main street, but not north of the property, this property.

[2:18:30] » Yeah. >> Yeah. drive there.

[2:18:33] » Could we go?

[2:18:35] » Could we shift that? Could we shift that spruce back a little bit and put it

[2:18:40] there between the sidewalk and where that spruce is? Sorry, not

[2:18:46] that spruce. Out on the frontage. Yes.

[2:18:51] Yep. Kind of in in that area between the sidewalk and that spruce.

[2:18:57] And maybe we swap, we flip-flop so it goes maple spruce so that it would be

[2:19:02] the maple kind of over the top of this sign and then the spruce and alternate

[2:19:08] from there. Of course, maybe it's a ponderosa pine. Now

[2:19:19] » I'm not sure if that's how much room is that there.

[2:19:23] » Yeah. What's the depth of that little island?

[2:19:27] Give me one second. I'll measure it real quick.

[2:19:30] » What What's the width of that island? I think this is the question.

[2:19:34] » Yeah. If you built anything up, would you be

[2:19:37] » sightines blocking? >> I I guess I had in my mind something

[2:19:44] substantial enough that if we put it in that island, it's going to make sight

[2:19:48] lines from that that uh curb cut off Main Street.

[2:19:57] problematic. Yeah. >> So, the space between the sidewalk and

[2:20:00] that curb and gutter is 35 ft.

[2:20:05] It's a pretty good amount of space that you know if you put that kind of on an

[2:20:09] angle so that it's kind of more perpendicular

[2:20:15] to the driver's eyes as they're passing by.

[2:20:21] Um, you could actually get a pretty substantial, you know, BM sign deal in

[2:20:28] that space and still maintain a clear sight triangle down the sidewalk

[2:20:33] clearing the sign.

[2:20:40] think I could if we did something like that and kind

[2:20:45] of also rethink going back to our intersections and setbacks and all that

[2:20:50] kind of stuff. Are we are we setting everybody up for a failure here if we do

[2:20:55] something like that because of our a vision triangle debacle?

[2:20:59] » Vision triangle. >> So yeah, your sight triangle there would

[2:21:04] be fine. Um, I would just make sure that the rightmost end of that sign, and we

[2:21:10] draw this all out to make sure that it doesn't go into the side triangle, but

[2:21:13] the rightmost corner is the only thing that would get close.

[2:21:21] And I believe this is a great swale. It dips down below.

[2:21:27] » Yeah, that goes down. Yes. So, it could even theoretically expand a little bit.

[2:22:02] You go Um, you go to Google Earth because I'm not sure if you go on Google

[2:22:07] Maps you can measure or something. I'm just curious like the width of that

[2:22:10] city. We can estimate it too, but I just

[2:22:15] » city is like 10 or 12 feet wide at the most. I think it's more like

[2:22:22] eight. >> Yeah,

[2:22:24] » if I had to guess. It's hard to >> get a great sense of it, but

[2:22:30] » yeah, most most street monument signs that we've done or been a part of have

[2:22:37] kind of been in that 6 to 12t range generally. Um, larger displays kind of

[2:22:45] get more in that like just shy of 20 usually.

[2:22:54] That might be a tough one to

[2:22:58] » I'll bet you that saw to one that one looked more like a

[2:23:03] » It's big. >> Somewhere between Yeah. like 18 20ish.

[2:23:10] » Yeah. >> I bet that's 30.

[2:23:13] » Yeah. Right there. I've seen landscape trucks parked in

[2:23:18] that area and it's a good bit longer than a

[2:23:27] Oh, it's longer than that.

[2:23:31] » Oh, yeah. >> I can't I see it.

[2:23:43] Yeah. So total end to end with all the rocks on the sawtooth one that one's

[2:23:47] like 50 feet. >> I know

[2:23:52] that [laughter] is that is a very large one.

[2:23:55] » Yeah.

[2:24:01] » Yeah. That's the SI mechanical gardens. Yeah.

[2:24:05] » Yeah. Yeah. And that's I guess that's measuring from

[2:24:08] even the the rock at ground level all the way over to the other rock at ground

[2:24:13] level. That's not where it starts getting vertical and depth to it,

[2:24:18] » right? >> That's kind of hard to pick out, but

[2:24:22] and that's kind of where where my mind goes is, you know, something

[2:24:28] substantial. It doesn't have to be a, you know, a sign that's 25 ft wide, but

[2:24:34] a feature that's got some some movement and some substantial size to it. Um, you

[2:24:41] know, some some boulders placed in that in that swale kind of off to each side

[2:24:46] of it can will really help. I you know, we're getting again too far, I think,

[2:24:52] into the design aspect of it. Um, but I guess that

[2:24:57] my vision for something that is, you know, that's a gateway to the city, um,

[2:25:04] is something with some substance to it.

[2:25:11] Just throwing an idea out there. One thing that I've seen in some other

[2:25:15] cities that we do business is uh they have like a you know a big a big rock

[2:25:19] like a big boulder and have it all engraved you know and then the in the

[2:25:23] letters are painted inside and it lasts you know it it's not it it doesn't uh

[2:25:29] look like >> crap after a few years. Something like

[2:25:33] that may be in order as long as you guys like something like that.

[2:25:38] Feels like a memorial. >> Yeah, maybe a flag pole or something

[2:25:43] next to it. Who knows? I mean, I think we could do something cool.

[2:25:48] I'm being serious about the flag pole, by the way.

[2:25:53] Well, I think the one thing though maybe the question so we don't get too far

[2:25:56] into the the design at this time is to go if there's enough room. We think

[2:26:02] there's enough room there to not be a safety issue. they end up with something

[2:26:07] there then

[2:26:11] do the do the armchair [clears throat] quarterback running you know they could

[2:26:16] bring us up and then start that around

[2:26:24] do do we but of course that's 35 ft we don't want to use the whole 30 or 35 ft

[2:26:28] we so >> yeah you know there's a ton of design

[2:26:35] work that could happen there. But, you know, you could make, you know, it could

[2:26:39] be a curved shape, so you get the the substance, but you don't you're not

[2:26:42] locked into any one straight line dimension. There's some there's a

[2:26:48] there's a lot of different ways to skin that cap.

[2:26:54] » Yeah. And for reference, that line that you have in front of you drawn right

[2:26:57] there is about 40 some odd feet long in that orientation.

[2:27:06] more

[2:27:09] signage that

[2:27:14] I just want to go back to making sure from the safety aspect.

[2:27:19] » I mean, just make sure that they're the ones

[2:27:23] designing it that they're a competent engineer that can make sure that it's

[2:27:27] out of sight lines. Okay.

[2:27:33] Yeah. And I guess one one last thing before we stop that. Is is that the

[2:27:37] location for that, you know, you're coming into

[2:27:42] that the is that the spot we want to sign because

[2:27:46] it's, you know, you got you're going to have Maverick right behind it. You have

[2:27:49] Maverick right behind it. So be in front of that. Um, and maybe even there could

[2:27:55] be some shrubbery

[2:28:00] that would help soften the maverick sign.

[2:28:06] » How you get shrubbery that softens the maverick sign but doesn't

[2:28:12] impede sight lines.

[2:28:16] » Those are kind of competing. >> Yeah.

[2:28:18] » Goals. You kind of have that with some of the,

[2:28:21] you know, pulling to Atinson's the street boulevards.

[2:28:25] » The the worst one in town is the country store.

[2:28:29] » Yeah. >> Getting out of the country store on the

[2:28:31] main street is total >> is tough.

[2:28:35] » Yeah. >> When those trees are have foliage on

[2:28:38] them.

[2:28:42] » Yeah. Um [clears throat] I would like it north of

[2:28:47] that. I would too if I had a magic wand. >> Came in wants to, you know, maybe e over

[2:28:52] a little >> piece to the city.

[2:28:56] » Is that something you would consider, Ken?

[2:29:00] » I'm sorry. What was the question? >> To put it on the the the lot to the

[2:29:04] north, >> I'm assuming.

[2:29:06] » Well, I think that that is certainly something that we would consider. The

[2:29:09] only I don't want to throw up a roadblock, but the only thing I would be

[2:29:12] concerned about is what happens if we sold that lot and we were no longer the

[2:29:18] owners of it. So, I think that there's a few things there that we would need to

[2:29:22] talk about. But, absolutely. I mean, if that's something that you guys like

[2:29:27] better. I mean, I like that spot inside that island. I think that that's I I

[2:29:31] think that that's it's actually um very visible when you're coming in the city.

[2:29:37] And who knows what could potentially go on that northern lot in the future or

[2:29:42] who is going to own it. So I I think that's maybe just something to consider.

[2:29:49] » We're not actively selling it just in case you're wondering. But [laughter]

[2:29:53] » no, it's going to need a access and maintenance easement or something to

[2:29:57] that effect. >> Yeah.

[2:29:59] » Regardless of which lot it falls on. >> Yeah. Well, then that's with the county

[2:30:07] and I don't know the county rags off the top of my head as far as like signing

[2:30:11] and that kind of thing. Sure, it's maybe possible, but who knows

[2:30:15] what stipulations they may. Um, you know, I almost like to, you know, I

[2:30:23] want to take this into future meetings, but also I almost want to like go out

[2:30:29] and almost have a field tour to to look at that. And I'm serious about putting

[2:30:34] some type of a tree or something, even if it's a ponderosa that grows up and

[2:30:39] you lose some of the stuff to soften that maverick sign. I'd be all for and

[2:30:45] but I couldn't tell you where from right here where to place that and the type of

[2:30:50] of tree or shrub or whatever that would be.

[2:30:54] » Right. It's tricky with that drainage well running through the middle of it.

[2:31:01] » Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we got to thread the needle. I think it's possible,

[2:31:04] » but we [clears throat] got we got I can't do it by sitting around.

[2:31:07] » When you say stopping that, are you talking about the

[2:31:11] the sign with the gas prices on it or are you talking about the the

[2:31:17] front of the store or are you talking about the canopy?

[2:31:21] » Well, I was originally thinking about the sun with the gas.

[2:31:26] Um cuz I think

[2:31:34] is that on that's not on any image yet, is it? The Maverick.

[2:31:40] [snorts] Um,

[2:31:47] I would I would be warm to

[2:31:54] much warmer to this project if it did incorporate some things like that that

[2:31:59] that um that kind of soften the the bright commercial. [snorts]

[2:32:08] Lots of pavement

[2:32:12] you know 100,000 person city feel

[2:32:18] um

[2:32:21] or you know not 100 thou what you know what I'm saying um [clears throat]

[2:32:27] » if we could incorporate a few things into this plan that that soften that um

[2:32:33] that as the as the feeling you get coming into Belleview from the north I

[2:32:37] would be I'd be much warmer to the project overall.

[2:32:41] » You know, I think one thing that we could

[2:32:45] consider requesting is a mockup, >> you know. Some renderings from

[2:32:52] perspectives and >> Yep.

[2:32:54] » Yep. >> Yep. Because that would

[2:32:57] because you know, even if we all went out there, it still is would have some

[2:33:01] renderings that we could all wrap our head around. Mhm.

[2:33:04] » Um would be I

City of Bellevue, Idaho Planning & Zoning Commission - August 17, 2026 Meeting

Transcript