[0:01] We are recording now.

[0:05] » We actually

[0:11] » the city clerk kind of goes through them and uploads them.

[0:15] » So I think the February and March the last last two meetings are up on our

[0:20] website. >> Yeah.

[0:21] » On the subcommittee page. >> Okay. Well, why don't we jump in? Do we

[0:26] start roll call for John Tantum? uh a community member.

[0:33] » Uh we'll say Peter Mark, council representative,

[0:37] » Tony Boyd, public works director. >> Chris Barry, associate engineer.

[0:42] » Uh Patrick Feder, finance committee representative.

[0:46] » Okay, good. Um next is approving the minutes from our March 25th meeting. Um

[0:54] which Tony, you had had you distributed those previously? Those

[1:00] may have been a link on the website, but it doesn't look like we have a print out

[1:05] of them here. Um, so yeah, if you haven't seen them, we can certainly make

[1:11] them available for the next meeting. Um, I'm not sure if there was um

[1:18] I think I said, >> first of all, do we have is I can't vote

[1:22] anyway. Do we is two a quorum? >> Yes,

[1:25] » it's two out of three, so I'm sure it's fine.

[1:26] » Yeah. >> Okay. Um yeah.

[1:29] » Um why don't we I I have not looked at them. So why don't you not unless you

[1:35] feel otherwise let's let's not vote on that now.

[1:37] » Yeah postpone that. >> Yeah. Okay. That's that sounds good. And

[1:42] my apologies for that because um I assume that with the agenda.

[1:49] » Okay. So that brings us to the meeting itself. And Tony, your um memo dated

[1:55] yesterday was a useful summary. So I'll turn it to you to to go through that and

[1:59] hit the the key points of discussion. >> All right. Great. Yep. Thank you. Um

[2:05] chair.

[2:11] So I'm just seeing a phone call from Adrian. Looks like I can email him the

[2:17] length. Yeah. Yeah. You should have it on the website, but

[2:22] um we're being joined by Adrien Vier, who's the construction manager. Um

[2:29] yeah, so uh the purpose of this meeting is to uh update you on on the

[2:34] developments um that have uh occurred uh since since we last met. Um and

[2:43] um I can run through my memo and share a couple of images of some of the uh some

[2:50] of the details in it. Um so starting with the contract, city

[2:56] council approved the contract um as was uh well u recommended by this committee

[3:02] and staff uh to Gordon uh awarded to Gordon Nball Construction

[3:08] um and that's been executed. So all the communications with them are now formal

[3:13] communications and um they've um provi pro provided some submittals and um yeah

[3:20] so we are moving forward with them. We've actually had a pre-construction

[3:23] meeting um to establish you know sort of the uh lines of communication and so on.

[3:30] Um and we've also had um an on-site meeting which I'll get into a little bit

[3:36] later. But uh as far as the project goes, starting

[3:41] with the permits, we have two outstanding permits. Uh BCDC have

[3:45] approved um our application. Um but their draft permit is in review and um

[3:53] they're unable to give us an exact date. They say they are trying to expedite it,

[3:58] but the only definite date that we know from them is they're uh they have to

[4:03] provide us with something by uh June the 22nd. Um, so that's uh BCDC.

[4:10] » So can you what does BCDC stand for? >> Uh, that's the Bay Area um conservation

[4:15] and development commission. >> Yeah.

[4:18] » Yeah. Um, and they um they regulate uh activities in the water um from um I

[4:27] believe it's the the mean high tide line uh uh to 100 ft in land. Um, so yeah,

[4:34] everything in that zone has to be approved by them.

[4:37] » So the June 22nd deadline, is that for a a permit or is could they like something

[4:42] other than a permit by then like a like a postponement or a

[4:45] » Oh, no, that's that's for a permit. So yeah, that's uh yeah, they've said that

[4:51] uh the draft that they have is for a um approved an approved permit.

[4:56] » Yeah. >> And you have a you have a a completeness

[4:59] confirmation or or or there equivalency of that? Um,

[5:05] I'm not sure. I mean, I I can uh >> because to John's point, if they they

[5:09] determine to pro the the I'm sure that they're referring to the streamline

[5:13] permitting act, permitting streamlining act, I should say. Um, if they determine

[5:18] something's not complete, that will invalidate that date.

[5:22] » Yeah. So, my understanding is that they um they confirmed that that the

[5:26] application is complete upon in uh sort of in the first stage. Um it was then

[5:31] approved um and then um the the permit was drafted and is now in review. Um

[5:38] that's that's my understanding and I and I I can certainly confirm that with our

[5:42] consultants to just make sure that there's there's no possibility of any um

[5:46] any detours. >> I certainly think the permitting process

[5:49] we should you know cross our tees and dot our eyes just make sure at every

[5:53] step of the way that >> Yeah.

[5:55] » we're not doing something or leaving something off the table and that needs

[5:58] to be done. >> Right. Yeah. again and yeah I can

[6:03] certainly um make sure that uh that we get some some

[6:07] of those details um yeah the second outstanding one is the Army Corps of

[6:11] Engineers um and that's been quite a frustrating

[6:16] process um but to to uh to summarize where we are now

[6:23] with them is is that um they uh they've started a form consultation process,

[6:31] which means that they forward our application to other agencies for

[6:35] review. Um, and it seems like Noah, um, fisheries in particular were interested

[6:42] in in a more formal review. Um, so we've now met with them and their biologist um

[6:51] to really to just try and um move this thing along as quickly as possible. um

[6:57] ask if there's any information that we still need to provide. Um they had said

[7:04] uh prelim before the meeting they had said we will likely need a a survey um a

[7:09] benthographic survey of the eel grass um beds near in the vicinity which our

[7:16] consultant thought was unreasonable um that that there's there are no eel grass

[7:21] beds within uh 40 50 ft of the site. Um and

[7:27] » if that I mean does the marinas have anything? I mean they couldn't be

[7:31] conducting marine activities if they're eager there right I mean isn't that

[7:35] » well um yeah I think if that is the is the main thing yeah it's the the problem

[7:42] was so he had done a survey and he's a he's a biologist himself so he's able to

[7:46] provide a a sort of you know a survey within the within the guidelines that

[7:51] they that they need um but it was from land with binoculars um and they wanted

[7:56] something more substantial okay um he feels that this is not not unfortunately

[8:03] not that uncommon sometimes because but if they just don't have very much

[8:07] information about an area they might uh they might like to get that and they'll

[8:10] use a project like this to obtain it. But we were able to um uh you know with

[8:17] with a another consultant um able to explain to them um what what it looks

[8:22] like out here um and they said they'd be fine with a preliminary slogan. So, um,

[8:29] at this point, that's what we're doing. We are, uh, we have a pre, uh, a

[8:35] proposal for a preliminary survey. Um, and then the potential, uh,

[8:40] pre-construction survey and post construction survey are lined up as well

[8:44] in case in case that's needed. >> When when we did the uh, prior beach

[8:49] wall retrofit, didn't we have to go through this?

[8:53] » Nope. Nope. And believe it or not, it was the same uh reviewer from from Noah

[8:59] um who said it wasn't needed at that time.

[9:01] » So was involved with a preliminary survey. Is this something we have to

[9:03] contract you to come do the >> Yes. Yeah. So we have a qualified um

[9:09] there's a there's a company I I don't know exactly what the sort of

[9:12] certifications are that are needed, but um it's uh it's a company out of San

[9:17] Francisco that's familiar with Noah um sort of parameters of what they need. Um

[9:23] they're going to come out at low tide uh walk out as far as they can in the water

[9:27] and identify if there are any signs of of wheelgrass. Um and I believe probably

[9:34] similar to what what our our consultant had done previously just from the land

[9:39] estimating a distance of any signs of egrass

[9:43] um and then presenting it as you know in a in a sort of a formal report. So they

[9:49] have not done that yet. Is that scheduled to be done? But yeah, we're

[9:52] we're um we're working through the details of the contract right now. Um

[9:55] they just need some insurance um changes for us to be able to for them to

[10:01] schedule the work and get the contract signed and and move forward with that.

[10:06] Um but that said, um the the Noah biologist said that she would finish up

[10:12] her um she was she she uh she was fine with our assurances that we were going

[10:18] to go ahead and do it. um we need the permit, you know, if this is what we

[10:22] need to do, then fine, let's do it. Um and um you know, she said it would be in

[10:28] the conditions. So, um she was happy to finalize all of her review and send it

[10:32] back to the Army Corp of Engineers. Um yeah, when we asked, you know, what

[10:38] how long did did she think that would take um she said mid June probably

[10:44] » until she gets hers to the armed? >> Yes. Yeah. until she finalizes

[10:48] everything she needs to do. Um yeah, there's a little bit of back and forth.

[10:53] Um she she uh she noted that um that they had lost 40% of their staff and

[11:00] that um this was this this project was actually close to the top of of her pile

[11:05] of of of work in in her inbox, I guess. But in any case, um they

[11:14] uh she expects to return it to the Army Corps of Engineers uh in June um mid

[11:18] middle of June. um communications with with the construction manager um who uh

[11:27] is familiar with with these permits, more familiar than I am certainly um

[11:31] said that they can they usually turn it around quite quickly once once the army

[11:36] have received their documentation. Um but we don't have we don't have an exact

[11:41] timeline for that. Um and they don't have the same statutory uh limits that

[11:48] we dec. Uh so um

[11:53] so at this point that's that's as far as we know um for that permit and

[11:59] um yeah we're we're um in touch with them

[12:05] constantly reminding them that uh we have a schedule and that's our deadline.

[12:10] the window that we're working in started starts on June the 1st and closes on

[12:14] October 30th. That's the environmental window. Um if if it goes beyond October

[12:21] 30th, we need special permission for that. Um and it's usually either a daily

[12:25] or a weekly uh permit that we obtain. So it's not something that's that we plan

[12:31] on having to do. Um but yeah that is the sort of the

[12:36] loose end that we don't um don't have any control of right now. Um yeah

[12:47] moving on to utility coordination. Um and I will actually share my screen here

[12:54] so we can take a look at the utilities on the site.

[13:13] Is it usually to turn into a panelist?

[13:25] Nice.

[13:29] All right. those attendees people who should be at the meeting.

[13:32] » It's Yes, it's Adrian Cormier the commander. Do you want to put him up? I

[13:38] mean, because he he can't talk if he's not

[13:43] elevated to a panelist, I think.

[14:01] up any second. Um, I'm just going to turn the screen. I

[14:05] think it might be him.

[14:12] » See,

[14:21] just uh gives us a a view of of what we're dealing with in here.

[14:27] Um the main the main work that needs to happen

[14:32] before the project is a P Gen joint trench which is this yellow and black

[14:37] line. Um want to get up there? Maybe. Yeah, that would be good. Thanks, Chris.

[14:45] Delay. There we go. Yep. It's that yellow and black line over there. Um is

[14:50] it also the one on the other side of it too?

[14:53] Right there. Chris to your left. Right here. Nope. card right there.

[14:57] » Oh, that that's a Comcast. >> Okay. Yeah, that is also yellow and

[15:01] black, your own. Um Yeah. Okay. Um that's not a joint trench

[15:06] that Comcast using, but they are participating in the joint trench on the

[15:10] right hand side of the screen. So, that joint trench will be removing um all of

[15:16] the existing utilities which are shown with the the black uh hash marks through

[15:20] them. Um uh so they're all going to be replaced with this with um this joint

[15:25] trench here um that's going to reconnect all the homes. Um that will be in place

[15:30] before the project so that when uh excavation begins and the sheet piles

[15:34] all go in and this road the inroad alignment um there's going to be no

[15:40] disruptions to uh to the properties uh because of that. Um

[15:46] » do they dig up the old services or just abandon them where they are? I I believe

[15:51] they just abandoned them. Yeah. Yeah. >> They usually just cut and cap.

[15:54] » Yeah. >> At the end they'll be there.

[15:57] » Yeah. Um the the water line that's shown over there, there's a 4-in water line.

[16:03] um will be a separate uh project and the water district will be um I think they

[16:10] have already installed a um a temporary two temporary shut off valves and pipe

[16:15] that they'll be able to so when the when the road is excavated and the sheet pile

[16:20] work begins they'll come and uh shut off valves remove their pipe let the sheep

[16:24] pile pass and then uh return it um as soon as it's complete. Um why why are

[16:31] they able to cross the sheep piles where otherwise can't? Well um the main reason

[16:36] is they're actually more nimble. Um so they can be there uh on the day or uh in

[16:41] the morning of of uh the the construction. Um and so they can plan to

[16:46] just be there for that wait until the the sheet paths have passed and then

[16:50] restore the the line. Um PG& can't guarantee that. Um so the options for EG

[16:56] were either to um uh install a bypass a temporary bypass uh for until

[17:02] construction was complete um and then and then reconnect their line um or um

[17:08] reconfigure their their holes. Um >> so that's their only penetration for all

[17:12] those properties below it and it goes horizontally from there.

[17:16] » Yes, exactly. Um and >> so that's all the water needs to do is

[17:20] what Chris showed us that one line. That's that's it. just need to

[17:24] disconnect and connect >> to bypass the the work.

[17:27] » Yeah. Just for that and then the normal connection is remain.

[17:31] » Yep. Exactly. >> That makes sense.

[17:33] » Yeah. Um and that's so that's gas uh there are two two gas lines actually. So

[17:39] the two uh coming down from the other side of the street that are that have

[17:44] hash marks and then a single electric line um that are being abandoned and

[17:48] replaced. >> Yeah. Over there um sewer. There's a

[17:53] sewer district line which is the green one on the left hand side. Uh that's

[17:57] actually a private lateral that goes to to the sewer district line. Um and that

[18:03] uh the the contractor will be um uh excavating exposing and um uh similar

[18:10] thing to what the water district's doing. Cathley

[18:14] or um >> Gordon

[18:16] » uh Gordon and B. Yeah. So when they do that figure area, they'll just literally

[18:21] cap cap and we connect. >> Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[18:27] Um Yeah. Uh Comcast. Okay. So the next

[18:32] » Do we know what that is? I mean, could that be Play in the street?

[18:37] » Uh I don't recall. Did we I know there was San Die. They don't know. It's not

[18:44] their line, right? So it could be could be

[18:49] » Yeah. Right. Exactly. >> Yeah. Exactly. That we we were hoping to

[18:52] do the same thing on West West Shore a couple years ago and we're expecting it

[18:56] to be PVC and it wasn't and that caused some problems

[18:59] » really. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Clay is is a lot a lot more difficult to

[19:03] » Well, you can't you can't cut and replace as easily,

[19:06] » right? Yeah. Um >> they'll they'll be prepared, I imagine.

[19:12] » Yes. Yeah. And it's kind of on them to Yeah. to be prepared. Um

[19:19] thankfully, not that we don't want to also know, but um yeah. Um

[19:27] so let's see the the next area of utilities is

[19:32] not really shown in this in this image uh because these are all the PG ones.

[19:37] But um I will get to the right page here

[19:44] and yeah we can we can look at these gang

[19:48] ways. Um so over here as you can see we've got um

[19:54] at gangway one we've got water, gas and electric that all um converge at gangway

[20:00] one. And then um that's how they um that's how this building this first

[20:07] building 16 to 20 beach road um uh has its utilities. Uh gangway 2 has no

[20:15] utilities and gangway 3 has water and sewer and uh Comcast cable.

[20:21] Um, and that's a different part of my uh memo here, but um,

[20:31] yeah, so I don't want to jump to that too soon.

[20:39] My notes,

[20:44] right? I mean, none of the utilities you've been talking to have have raised

[20:49] timing issues or obstacles with the schedule. Is that is that correct or

[20:54] what's the summary there? >> Um, right. Yeah, thank you. Um, the PG&

[20:59] were the were the main concern because um they had to schedule a fairly big

[21:04] project for that joint trench. Um, and the interesting thing with PG& is that

[21:10] gas and electric are almost separate entities. they they really barely ever

[21:15] communicate with each other and so getting them to communicate for a joint

[21:18] trench was was interesting. Um we do have a date from them though. Um it took

[21:24] took a little it took a while but they finally got a date to us and that is

[21:28] last week of June and first week of July is when they have scheduled this work.

[21:33] Um they've applied for encroachment permits. So that's um

[21:38] uh they've assured us that that's um that's the soonest they can get to it.

[21:42] Um and and they are um they're committed to it.

[21:47] » Okay. >> Yeah. And that when they do that, their

[21:49] work will include uh temporary electric service uh for the for the private um uh

[21:56] facil the private buildings over here. Um that we'll get to in a minute. Um

[22:02] » and their work would could could go whether we're we've been or not.

[22:07] » Correct. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It needs to happen before the project. um

[22:12] in any case. >> Mhm.

[22:13] » Um so yeah, it's yeah, just that they're doing it is uh is the main thing. Um

[22:22] » but none of the other utilities and you didn't mention AT&T. Are they are they

[22:25] there too? Is that another >> No, they're not. Um so they had a copper

[22:30] uh a co a single copper wire um that they uh that was not in in service and

[22:36] is is won't be brought back into use. So, uh, they were happy to abandon that.

[22:42] » So, it's only Comcast that's providing TCO.

[22:44] » Correct. Yeah. Yeah. They're the only, uh, provider up there. Okay. Yeah.

[22:52] » Um, yeah. >> Would you put in would you would it make

[22:55] sense to put an additional conduit for future expansion? I mean, I know Toner,

[22:59] we've talked about broader um, telecom and fiber and other connectivity. Um

[23:05] would would it would it be I mean they were talking about that with the 131

[23:08] project is just laying down conduit for some future you know service provider.

[23:15] » It's an interesting thought. Um I think uh because the and maybe that might uh

[23:22] might be useful for the inroad work. Um but I think because the the the the top

[23:29] height elevation of the the sheet piles is quite far down the wall. Um, anything

[23:34] that would need to come through to the homes would be above the definition.

[23:37] » I know. Why rip it up? I mean, that's if you're if if you

[23:42] » Yeah. >> It's not appropriate.

[23:44] » Yeah. Yeah. No, but it's I mean, it's like while while we have it open.

[23:48] » Actually, surprised AT&T's not wanting to throw it in there while they're

[23:52] » Well, I I think I think um normal telecom is just abandoning, you know,

[23:56] area after area. >> Yeah. Um that that was the issue with

[23:59] 131 is that no one wants to service this area with anything wired. they they

[24:03] don't want to take it's just not it's just not worth their they won't get the

[24:06] service agreements down the road for the level of uh infrastructure improvements.

[24:11] » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah. It's amazing. Comcast and AT&T whenever we

[24:16] deal with them on anything um to try and be proactive. For example, uh temporary

[24:21] service here that will be that will be needed. Um they are very reluctant to to

[24:27] do anything. They're um pretty much the only time that they will come out

[24:33] definitely is is when um when something's broken and they need to

[24:38] repair it or >> our contractors, Gordon, they should

[24:41] they should be able to do it. Yeah. It's not high technology.

[24:45] » Correct. Yeah. And that's So, we're actually doing that. We're basically

[24:47] setting the whole thing up for them to be able to pull their wire through for a

[24:51] temporary connect and they've uh and they've confirmed that they'll be

[24:55] » uh they'll they'll be there for that. But yeah, they, you know, they're not

[24:58] having to do any work for it. They just, you know, arrive and plug it in. Um, but

[25:04] that's fine. It's not, you know, it's not, it's not difficult, uh, or costly

[25:08] work. Um, yeah, two more things with the utilities. Actually, going back to that,

[25:14] um, and speaking of, um,

[25:19] Comcast,

[25:24] hold on.

[25:30] Uh so that uh that line that you pointed out on the left hand side over there uh

[25:35] that is that is a Comcast line. Um so that will reconnect uh their line that's

[25:41] going to be um cut with with the sheet piles. So they have two two access uh

[25:46] lines to these buildings. One one from that that side and the other that will

[25:51] now be coming through the joint trench on the other side.

[25:54] Um, another issue that um, uh, when we met

[26:00] with the contractor and and these utilities on site, another issue that

[26:04] um, came to light was a a sewer line that was

[26:10] u basically at main road that hadn't been been marked in the uh, in the

[26:15] original surveys or the initial surveys of the site. So are not isn't shown in

[26:19] the plan. Um, and that runs under the seaw wall. Uh so um that's going to have

[26:25] to be dealt with uh one way or another. Um it's about 10 ft from the end of the

[26:30] um that the the extent of the the sheet piles. Um so that's something that we're

[26:36] going to uh we're going to ask the contractor for a submitt for how to um

[26:41] uh bridge that bridge over that. >> Sorry, I was writing what was that was

[26:45] that service for? >> Yeah. So there's a it's a sewer line

[26:49] that wasn't marked uh in the first uh you know in the first stages of the

[26:53] design really when all the utilities were being marked out. Um and yeah and

[27:02] I can show a picture of that as well but um but yeah the the important thing

[27:08] really is that it's there. Um

[27:12] yeah, let's see. Um

[27:19] so that's where we are with utilities. Basically that loose end is is is is

[27:24] tied up as far as PG& are concerned. Um where the modifications are concerned

[27:29] with the private utilities I'll move into next because um that's an area that

[27:35] we're we're looking at quite closely right now. um

[27:40] uh the the team feels that there is potential for um improvement in that

[27:45] area. Um the the engineering design originally called for uh for the seaw

[27:51] wall um or or the sheet pile alignment on the outside of the seaw wall uh to to

[27:57] cross through all of these gang ways. Um >> yeah,

[28:00] » sorry. Yes. under the gang ways. Um which means removing the gang ways um

[28:06] and uh making sure that all the utilities to the residents are not uh

[28:14] are not impacted or you know bypasses and temporary services are provided and

[28:18] so on. Um, so you can see the total alignment here. The area that we're

[28:22] talking about is sort of just actually in the overlap pretty much of those uh,

[28:28] yeah, it's uh, those >> those three gang ways right there,

[28:31] right? >> Those two and and gang way one as well

[28:33] actually is what we've been um, focused on. Um

[28:40] there's um the original proposal for those um

[28:47] was for the alignment that's in the street um alignment B um basically to

[28:54] continue um past all the gangways and uh and then uh overlap with the the

[29:01] alignment on the seabboard side just as it does right there. So that sorry just

[29:04] so that's the blue line there extending past all the one on the the top the

[29:09] topmost blue line extending all the way past the gang way number one is that was

[29:13] the correct >> yeah exactly that was the original

[29:15] proposal um and after looking at it closely the

[29:21] design engineers uh and speaking to the um the geotech um

[29:28] found that it was it it was not cost-ffective um

[29:33] uh the the the costly part of that is the the beams that need to go across

[29:37] from the the the sheet piles in the street need these

[29:42] reinforced beams that to connect to the seaw wall. Um and that that would have

[29:46] been very costly. Um uh the other thing actually is that at

[29:52] gangway one there's a a cluster of of utilities in the street um that would

[29:57] have made it very difficult uh for the contractor to to install the the sheet

[30:03] piles there. Um,

[30:05] » so, so, so at the end of the >> building, I don't know the address, I

[30:10] can't see that. But before the Gangway building,

[30:13] » you've now shifted that to the water side to the extent of the gangway

[30:18] building, right? That that that upper blue line

[30:22] was longer to the right before. Now it's longer to the left below it, right?

[30:27] » Yeah. Well, so that's Yeah, exactly. And this actually came up in the early

[30:31] stages of of the design but was discussed um just because it was you

[30:35] know clear that there were going to be issues over here. Um so this is this

[30:39] this is the original design right now. There's there's an overlap over here and

[30:44] um this this alignment over here has these these reinforced beams that go

[30:48] across and connect to the uh to the seaw wall with these helical anchors that are

[30:53] all um driven in as well. Um so the first proposal was to basically extend

[30:59] that just past that that gang way that there's that same kind of overlap over

[31:03] here and then continue on the on the seabboard side over there. Um yeah it

[31:09] wasn't cost effective and the geotech >> this is the yeah this but this is a

[31:14] revised plan. This is revisit >> yeah this is revised from the early

[31:20] design conversation. Yeah. Yeah. So this is this is the this is the 100% plan

[31:26] that um that went out for bid. >> It was one considered before that that

[31:30] where that extended that >> got it wall.

[31:32] » Exactly. It was considered an early stage of design and um what brought it

[31:36] up? >> I'm sorry. So this is better or we're

[31:38] going back to what was considered before.

[31:41] » Well, so this is this is in place basically um you know until

[31:45] construction, but we are uh trying to find ways to improve it.

[31:49] » So you'd rather put it in the street where those gangways are? Um that was so

[31:54] yeah where the gang ways are is where is where there's there's a sort of complex

[31:59] set of issues. Um so putting it in the street was one was one option um that uh

[32:05] that the team looked at um and you first of all it wasn't cost effective because

[32:10] of the beams. Um second of all the geotechnical engineer um was uh

[32:19] there are issues with it from the geotechnical perspective because it

[32:22] doesn't provide toe protection for the seaw wall.

[32:25] » Um so right now there's erosion that's happening from this from from the waves

[32:31] over here. >> Um but there's a building right here

[32:34] right on the seaw wall. So the erosion doesn't doesn't impact this section of

[32:39] the seaw wall as much as it does does over here. And in fact this section over

[32:43] here is where it's where it's the worst. Um so over here it's acceptable to the

[32:48] geotech to put the uh to put the alignment behind the the seaw wall and

[32:53] connect it with with with beams. But over here he was he wasn't he didn't

[32:58] like that idea. Basically, um he basically said if you're going to do

[33:02] that, if you're going to have this extended out to here, then you'd also

[33:07] have to add toe protection on this side of the wall in any case. Um because

[33:12] because that would, you know, you're losing that then.

[33:16] That makes sense. Yeah. You'd be cutting this out. See this this part of the of

[33:21] the alignment would be removed um and and basically moved to the back of the

[33:25] seaw wall over here which would leave the front or the front of the concrete

[33:28] seaw wall there exposed. >> Right. But now you're considering an

[33:31] alternate to this currently and what what might that look like? What might

[33:37] the new lead alternate be? >> Yeah. So it's we're I I I can share

[33:43] uh with you what we u exactly what we've been discussing. Uh this would probably

[33:50] be helpful. Um and uh yeah,

[34:00] it up here. But

[34:34] So, this is probably quite useful. Um,

[34:42] I'll share what I was uh what I was just talking about first.

[34:56] Okay. So yeah, basically that's uh yeah, the very basic sketch of what

[35:04] was being discussed. Uh so along the top there would be uh would be

[35:10] the new the continued alignment of the sheet piles and then you'd have these

[35:14] beams going across uh to the to the seaw wall. Um, yeah. So, that's

[35:19] » But I thought I said I thought you said they didn't want to do that.

[35:23] » Yeah, correct. Yeah. Sorry. I'm really just illustrating. Um,

[35:26] » okay. Sorry. >> Uh,

[35:28] » so that's not that's not proposed either. That's that that was one. We're

[35:32] at two. You're trying to You're proposing three.

[35:36] » Uh, yes, exactly. And it's really just to give you an idea of of um how this

[35:42] has all been discussed and how you know kind of different ideas have been

[35:46] arrived at. Um

[35:51] and yeah so I can share what we have here.

[36:03] This is what we're discussing right now.

[36:09] Um, so it's a much more subsurgical approach.

[36:14] Um,

[36:18] I guess

[36:28] I can Yeah, just to do a quick run through. Uh, so basically these red

[36:32] lines over here. um

[36:35] » say a little better. >> That's right. Yeah, I think it is. Um

[36:40] would be where new alignments would be. So basically at each gang way. Um so we

[36:45] put the two gangs here, one there and one here. Um we've actually moved on

[36:50] from this design because we discussed this with the contractor and said how

[36:55] feasible do you think this would be? Uh before we go into you know get a a

[36:59] technical drawing to you. Um they looked at it carefully. they came back and said

[37:05] that this gang way over here is not doable not not like this because of all

[37:09] these utilities that you've got in this area. Um their uh their recommendation

[37:15] is to stick with the plan, remove the remove this gang way and keep with the

[37:20] the outboard alignment of sheet piles. Um so we've taken that on board. Um over

[37:27] here um this is this is a complicated gang

[37:32] way because you have a sewer line that actually runs on both sides of the gang

[37:35] way quite low down closer to the water. Um and um you also have a water line

[37:42] that runs through there. Um the sewer line runs all the way around the

[37:47] footing. There's a concrete footing under this gang way and part of it would

[37:51] be above exactly above where the where this uh where this the sheet piles would

[37:56] be driven in. So that would all have to be removed temporarily, bypasses

[38:01] installed possibly with pumps um and and then restored afterwards, which is which

[38:07] is complicated. Um and so this section here, this gang doesn't have any

[38:12] utilities. So this is actually the easiest gang to remove. Um the only

[38:16] disruption to residents is access. Um right now um we're down to this one. Um

[38:24] so basically over here at this gang way number three it's called um the the

[38:31] um the sheet piles on the on the outboard side would be up would start

[38:36] over here, end over here and then on this side they would start here and

[38:41] continue over there. uh and and we're going to have a uh a section of sheet

[38:46] pile under the sidewalk. This is the proposal. We've yet to see the the cost.

[38:50] Um it seems like it should be cost effective, especially considering all

[38:53] the utility kind of uh work that would be that would be needed for it. It also

[38:58] would be less disruptive for the residents uh because um it would make it

[39:02] would keep access open for longer wouldn't be removed. Um

[39:07] » so the 30 foot um sheet pile installed along the back of the seaw wall that

[39:13] wouldn't penetrate or interfere with utilities.

[39:19] It would erode right. So yes there there would still be utility work needed over

[39:24] here but it would be um a lot easier basically under the sidewalk over here

[39:30] it would be a problem. Um, but over here it's it's doable

[39:35] or it's I should say it's it's not as complicated to do it under the sidewalk

[39:40] as it is to do it under the gang way. >> Is it cheaper to do that or is it just

[39:43] because you can't because you're not removing the gang ways?

[39:46] » Um, well, we've we've yet to get an actual proposal from them with with

[39:50] cost. Um, but um the gang way the gang way removal is fairly straightforward.

[39:56] It's a carpentry task that's um it's it involves some custom work. So it's it it

[40:01] it's it's it is detailed. Um but because the utilities are servicing the homes

[40:06] with people in there and they need to be maintained, that's what makes um all the

[40:12] utility work um costly really. >> No, I know. I'm trying to I'm trying to

[40:16] understand how this option is less expensive than removing it, installing

[40:21] the sheet piles as planned and put putting the gang ways back because you

[40:24] still have utility work. The only difference seems to be you're

[40:27] not doing you're putting inland sheet piles versus waterbound sheet piles and

[40:32] you're even putting the shallow sheet piles there for aesthetic purposes. It's

[40:35] it says in a note so I don't understand outside of sheep are optional. It may be

[40:39] I'm just I don't I'm not >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's um and maybe

[40:43] let me show you a picture of that gang way so we can get a sense.

[40:46] » We don't need to get into too much detail. I I guess

[40:50] if if it's cheaper because you're not remove the gang way. That's the answer.

[40:54] Pardon me. >> It may that's the answer because if if

[40:56] it's if that if that inbound just against the wall rebolted we don't have

[41:01] to do the this the the the detach separate connectors which you talked

[41:06] about before. Um I remember last meeting we talked about

[41:10] that and there was a question is why why are we detaching it so far? like why

[41:14] don't you put it right up against the wall and here they seem to be proposing

[41:18] this now but there was some reason why you didn't put it up against the wall

[41:20] the whole way because I didn't think there was a question why you doing

[41:23] anything water bound why wouldn't you just put it right along the wall on the

[41:26] inside and bolt it to the wall >> right

[41:28] » and there was some discussion that it was better to give some distance

[41:32] especially where the building was >> yeah um that's that's a very good point

[41:37] and I don't recall what that was why we why we're not doing it directly under

[41:42] the sidewalk instead under the curve. Do you remember Chris?

[41:45] » Yeah, it's to protect um rotation a little better.

[41:51] » Um no, no. So further away. Why are we doing it further away for a human being?

[41:56] » Well, these ones out here you mean? >> Yeah. Yeah.

[41:58] » Um I think this also said they couldn't get close enough to the building to do

[42:02] it when where the building is. You had to do it some distance out because the

[42:06] machinery wouldn't couldn't come up against a wall,

[42:08] » right? So that is definitely one one factor. Um, but I'm saying if if there's

[42:12] some logic and we don't need to spend too much time this is beyond our this is

[42:16] your guys expertise by by all means. Um, but if there's some logic that is more

[42:20] it's more in effect it's more cost effective with the exception of where

[42:24] the building is because of the agency of the building itself.

[42:27] » Um to put it inside the wall. >> Yeah.

[42:30] » Um why would you do that everywhere? I mean but if it's only because you you're

[42:36] not removing the gang way that might be the answer.

[42:38] » Yeah I guess. Well, that's yeah, that's definitely a part of it. Um I think so

[42:41] the utilities are still a complication. It's it's still um I think the I think

[42:49] over here the different one of the differences here is that so

[42:56] yeah the the erosion was the erosion is is worse on the wall over here. Um

[43:00] because of the building that's that's uh right here that butts up against the

[43:05] wall. There's protection of the wall over here. So it's not as critical for

[43:09] the for the sheet piles to be close to the wall.

[43:13] » Um so that's one thing. So they can be further away and there are utilities in

[43:17] the sidewall. So it's not as you're not dealing with utilities as much by having

[43:22] it further away. Um over here um you have utilities. You're going to have to

[43:27] deal with them. Um but you also have have to be under the sidewall because uh

[43:33] the erosion is uh uh worse here um that the walls experiencing and there's no

[43:39] protection other than um you know other than this this alignment. Uh and the

[43:46] protection over here would would still be needed. Um it would be a slight

[43:50] option of basically matching the the rest of the seaw wall there. It just

[43:54] wouldn't go down 32 feet. it would be a um a formed concrete.

[43:58] » So if you were to this is being considered but it doesn't change the

[44:02] timeline or or it could fit within our original timeline and and broad budget

[44:09] essentially. >> Yes. Yeah. Exactly. The the the timeline

[44:13] would would stay the same would remain the same. Um and it would have to be

[44:18] cost effective. It would have to be um worth

[44:22] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. and and um yeah, I mean there you know that uh disruption

[44:28] to the residents and um project coordination really are are the main

[44:34] things we're looking at. So um Hadley uh construction were um that's who we

[44:44] had originally planned to do this work. um

[44:48] their uh their costs are seem to be quite fluid. Unfortunately, they haven't

[44:54] been able to give us an exact price of how you know what what what it'll cost

[44:58] to do all this work. They would prefer to work with a time and materials

[45:01] contract and um we're not comfortable with that uh for a start. Uh and then

[45:08] the other thing is now that we have some unit prices from this contractor um we

[45:13] may be able to uh you know we've asked them to provide a a quote for the for a

[45:18] similar work some of it would still be in Hadley's uh plants but um yeah so

[45:24] » this is so so the 270 if I remember correctly

[45:29] » um you're not getting a firm contract from Hadley so you're considering having

[45:34] Gordon and Ball do some of it and Hadley do the rest of it but still stay within

[45:38] 270 if they're >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, the costs um

[45:43] Yeah. those costs that 270 um has, you know, has has shifted and it's moved up

[45:50] basically. They're above 300,000 now. So, um and yeah,

[45:55] » but that but you're saying that because you but you're not additively that is

[45:58] » additely. Yeah. Yeah. >> And so, that's the way you're describing

[46:02] them being fluid or or >> Yes, exactly. um they um

[46:08] it it's it's been quite difficult to to get a um a set price from them. Um they

[46:15] you know and they've explained they've been transparent about it. They said we

[46:17] we need to add a cushion in here. If we're going to give you a set price, we

[46:20] need enough of a cushion to be comfortable. um and you know um they

[46:26] would prefer to work with time and materials but in that case then they

[46:30] they're not comfortable with not to exceed amount of you know um

[46:34] » and are they are they the the only in town I mean are they

[46:38] » no exactly this is the so and the reason that Hadley's were specified is because

[46:42] they've just done this work they they built those gangways less than two years

[46:46] ago and installed all of those utilities so they're familiar with the

[46:49] configuration of the utilities the the layout of the uh scaffolding and

[46:53] everything that they needed before. Um, as far as efficiency goes, they would be

[46:58] able to be in there, do the work, and get out of there. Um, so it made sense.

[47:02] Um, they're also, you know, familiar with the residents, um, and have worked

[47:07] in these buildings, I believe, many times.

[47:10] Um, but yeah, there's there's a couple of issues. One of them is that they're

[47:15] not a union, um, shop. Um, and this the contractor is. Um so um construction sh

[47:24] construction site um sharing uh is apparently a problem. Um I think even

[47:32] without union issues I think there are you know there's there's there can be

[47:36] friction and it's something that the prime contractor B um they basically

[47:41] said we would prefer to control the whole project um and if you can allow us

[47:45] to do that we can give you a proposal uh for for this work uh including the

[47:50] modifications. So um >> are you doing that?

[47:53] » Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We're preparing a yeah it's it's actually it's kind of as

[47:58] speed. um uh the design engineers are putting together a conceptual sketch

[48:02] that we're going to send out to them to get get past.

[48:07] Is there is there any rationale to um I mean considering that that time is of

[48:11] the essence from a you know with our water bound work um is there any work

[48:17] that Hadley could be doing to before the union contractors are on site with

[48:21] permit since since we have control over the the work that Hadley is doing

[48:25] arguably >> can they can they advance that work

[48:29] could they be doing that sooner than the project

[48:32] » um yes um and and in fact the, you know, um, Hadley are are still they're not off

[48:40] the table. Uh, because if we get a quote back from a contractor that's that's

[48:44] higher than Hadley's, then um, we're going to going to go back to Hadley

[48:48] basically. Um, but their their portion of the work was uh, planned for before

[48:55] this contract starts. go in there uh before the the big

[48:59] project starts, remove all the gangways, set up the uh temporary uh utility lines

[49:05] uh and then move off the site. Then the prime contractor comes in, completes the

[49:09] project, um and then Hadley returns to restore all those.

[49:14] » But it does seem like if Word and Ball can do that work, it might be more

[49:18] efficient to have them just do all aspects of it rather than have a handoff

[49:22] between them and Havly. is not known to be an inexpensive right

[49:26] » operator. Exactly. >> I would guess that ball could could

[49:30] undertak them and it might be a simpler less coordination and a better approach

[49:35] ultimately. >> Yes. Yeah. That's that's definitely the

[49:38] um the impression that we get >> and I I don't personally know just

[49:42] because they did this work two years ago doesn't mean that the same person's

[49:45] going to be there doing it. I mean I don't know what familiarity means and

[49:48] when you look at it you probably see what they did and yeah undo. So

[49:53] » yeah, at the end of the day, I think um that's

[49:57] we we this is what we're exactly discussing. Um it's you know, it's not

[50:02] ideally you're not rocket scientists, this is not that that difficult. Um so

[50:07] Bordon Ball should be able to manage this, especially if they've they've

[50:10] already said that they would like to. >> Can I move on to I had a question about

[50:14] the easements by the property owners? I didn't see that addressed here. See

[50:19] easements? >> Yes. So, we have uh uh three temporary

[50:24] construction easement contracts that have been approved. Um not signed yet,

[50:28] but they were approved at the last city council meeting and they've been

[50:31] approved by the the property owners as well. Um so, that's um

[50:37] that is remains to be executed, but um yeah, everybody's on the same page with

[50:44] that. Um yeah so that's there were there were there were questions about kind of

[50:49] different details of the work um and it is uh a question my understanding is

[50:55] that if there are changes to the works such as these these changes here um that

[51:01] that that won't that won't change any of the substance of the of the agreements

[51:06] that you know maybe the scope the description of work but not

[51:09] » and the council didn't approve the agreements per se they agreed they they

[51:12] approved the city manager's ability to excuse the agreements.

[51:15] » Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. So, the important thing is that the

[51:18] property owners are not resisting and are agreeing to to them.

[51:22] » Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. They're um uh Yeah. In fact, um the land company are

[51:30] enthusiastic about the work. Um they've been aware of the, you know, the issues

[51:34] with the seaw wall. So, yeah, they're they're happy to to see it going ahead.

[51:39] Um and then the other two lots are owned by the same group, the Strauss group. uh

[51:44] and um they had a lot of questions. I think they were sort of wanted to learn

[51:49] about um what was going on. Um so and we had been updating the land company from

[51:55] the start of the project. Um we didn't uh yeah it was only in in January I

[52:02] think that the that there was a change changing of plans.

[52:06] Um but yeah, no so the the uh the easements construction easements are are

[52:11] in place. Um yeah, um

[52:16] we should probably try and keep moving for one or the next 10 15 minutes or so,

[52:21] right? Um,

[52:31] let's move the schedule because I think that's just just just what are your um

[52:36] » um you know are there any you mentioned the August I think third date. Are there

[52:40] any key dates that you need to achieve and really strive to highlight there?

[52:47] Well, um yes. So, so August the 3 is the is

[52:53] using the 65 working days uh estimated working time that the design engineers

[52:57] have provided. Um August 3rd is the is the latest start that we can have with a

[53:05] you know flexibility. You talk about water work and nonwater work. Is that 65

[53:08] days for the whole project or just >> project? In theory, it's a lot less

[53:12] water work. >> Correct.

[53:13] » Yes. Um, does BCDC or that moratorum care mean like if you're working what I

[53:20] mean is if you're working inland of that um is it still prohibited or or is it

[53:24] only just literally the work on the water?

[53:26] » It's it's only the work on the water. So the the outside of the

[53:30] » Have you guys with um our project managers and or Gordon Ball have you put

[53:35] together sort of a schedule um specifically um identify scope of work

[53:40] which isolates water work. So that's that's my word, not your word as far as

[53:44] water work, but that that that so that if you had to, you know, focus on um

[53:50] working outside that window else elsewhere other than water, you could

[53:53] still get it done, right? Not yet. No. Um yeah, we

[54:00] um I I think we just don't feel that we're

[54:04] there yet. Um, and I think as we communicate more with the Army Corp of

[54:10] Engineers, um, we've asked them if there's any way we can have some kind of

[54:13] provisional permit or pro provisional approval, um, for example, just some way

[54:18] that we can kind of start start moving ahead. We can give the contractor a

[54:21] notice to proceed and so on. Um, they're, uh, they're not easy to work

[54:26] with. Um, but in any case, um, does their approval also, um, is that

[54:32] required for Hadley's work? I'm calling it Hadley's work, but

[54:36] » No. No. >> So, arguably someone could go out there

[54:39] today and relocate the peers and I know we wouldn't do it for the for the fear

[54:43] of not having the project go forward in this window. I get that. Y but

[54:47] theoretical. >> Yes.

[54:48] » Could they could they go out there? Is anything stopping um either Gordon and

[54:53] Ball or Hadley going out there and removing the peers, creating a wave

[54:57] pathway for people to get in and out and working on utilities?

[55:00] » No. No. I mean, you know, we'd need to, you know, obviously give them the notice

[55:06] to proceed, but um that would be that yes, that would be possible. So, we

[55:10] could certainly do some of the ground work, you know, to to minimize the the

[55:14] time needed um for for inwater work. Um but

[55:20] yeah, I think because we are we're still planning on on having uh the contractor

[55:27] provide us with a schedule uh to fit within the 65 days. Um

[55:33] um we we haven't uh started thinking about those uh those part well I mean

[55:38] we've we have them in mind but um we haven't I guess you call them

[55:42] contingency plans. we haven't sort of moved into

[55:45] » well a project like this you would have to think that it's not really a

[55:49] contingency it's sort of a requirement I'm just just throwing it out there that

[55:53] » you may want to consider having unless it's a it's it's literally an additional

[55:57] cost to do so but I don't know that it necessarily will be but

[56:01] » come up with a methodology that you know you know packs the water work into the

[56:05] middle of the project which is by definition when you'll have your window

[56:08] » right you know so that you can do the preparation work you know as efficiently

[56:12] as possible do water work all when you have to do it and if you still have two

[56:16] months worth of work afterward it's not you know project threatening because if

[56:20] the window closes you're you're you're out of the water

[56:22] » right the 65 working days is that is that the number of inwater working days

[56:27] or is that >> that's that's the whole project how many

[56:30] roughly how many of those days are in water is it 10 or

[56:33] » that's a good question >> um

[56:37] and I would say you know based on the on the alignment

[56:42] lengths Um it's it's maybe 60 to 70% would be in water.

[56:48] » So might be 40 or so days in water. So that 40 days counting back from from

[56:53] October 30th does make a potentially later start date.

[56:58] » Yes. >> Right. Exactly. Yeah.

[57:00] » Yeah. >> But you can only do that if you have

[57:02] figured out how you can do it efficiently.

[57:04] » You're ready. >> Yeah. Yeah.

[57:06] » Yeah. Absolutely. And so just to throw into that um the piece of equipment that

[57:12] that the city has specified is needed for this work is is called a ge or a

[57:16] geon um silent driver. Um and it's a very expensive piece of equipment uh to

[57:22] mobilize. Um so um the contra they're going to limit it and and make

[57:30] it efficient. >> Yeah, exactly. They also may not be

[57:33] available at at any moment. maybe some schedule for other projects in the list

[57:38] of each kid. >> We we haven't heard from that from the

[57:42] contractor that there's that there's any potential for that. Um but uh we're

[57:48] we're definitely aware of that. >> And is Gordon Ball also flexible? Are

[57:52] they able to start kind of in the line with how permit

[57:56] availability? Are they showing flexibility

[57:59] » at this point? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean um they were ready to go as soon as

[58:04] possible. Um they had said early to mid June uh they they they

[58:11] anticipated being ready. Um at this point um we've we've asked them to sort

[58:16] of push that back uh to early July. Um and they they've been understanding you

[58:22] know they they know how permitting agencies operate. So um yeah they're

[58:29] they were very the other the permits and P gen were their two almost first

[58:35] questions. So P gen has been buttoned down at this point. Um and it's the

[58:39] outstanding permit the window is June is it June 1 to

[58:43] October 30th? >> Yes. Yeah.

[58:48] I'm just curious if if there's any focusing on the residents here a little

[58:52] bit more. I mean, I personally think a project from June 1 to or even June 15th

[58:58] to to July 15th or or August 1st, something like that, is a much different

[59:02] project than August through October. >> People being around in our city. I mean,

[59:08] it looks like we're and we're looking like it's going to be an August,

[59:10] October, >> right, type project. And even if we have

[59:13] to extend the nonwater work beyond October, it's getting into November and

[59:18] December, which is don't want to do it work here both weatherwise and also

[59:21] people wise. Um I mean is there a logic risk

[59:27] notwithstanding of you know at least having a contingency plan get everything

[59:32] lined up and then starting you know June 15th of next year when because because I

[59:37] think there is a big community impact doing this project in June and July and

[59:41] early August is much better >> with a little bit of shift there than

[59:45] doing it in August, September, October, November.

[59:49] » Um >> well that's something we haven't

[59:50] considered. >> No, I I'm just and I know that that

[59:52] that's an economic issue. While it is slightly less convenient, there may be

[59:56] more people around in September and October and there's schools around

[59:59] » it uh it feels like there's so much sort of work and momentum to be sure to be

[1:00:05] sure >> and that this the slight heightened

[1:00:07] inconvenience is not worth not worth it change in the schedule my in my

[1:00:13] » plus we don't know is the contract and the fees value valid for over a year

[1:00:18] probably not >> right it would be too bad if it's filled

[1:00:20] in the September October but it's a minor inconvenience on the schema very

[1:00:23] exciting. So >> yeah, I guess it's I'm I'm agree. I'm

[1:00:26] just saying just in the back of your mind like you know as this schedule

[1:00:30] pushes and as we start you know hearing from the um Army Corps of Engineers

[1:00:34] later in June and as as things happen um if we're pushing this too far into the

[1:00:39] fall I think I think it's more unions than than just minor but that's

[1:00:44] » yeah that might be my perception. I think schools are a big deal and traffic

[1:00:48] on those roads picks up quite a bit. Weather will impact it more. Yeah, I I

[1:00:53] think it's well so you know I think in the team's sort of mind that's been a a

[1:00:59] sort of a last resort really is just right if this army core is is not going

[1:01:04] to come through >> um then we're going to have to you start

[1:01:09] negotiating with the contractor whether they can you know what pricing they can

[1:01:13] retain for next year and so on. Um but the the the question of um sort of

[1:01:21] public convenience is uh yeah that's something that we haven't really sort of

[1:01:26] included in in the conversation and a lot of things a big inconvenience to

[1:01:30] begin with. >> Um but yeah if there is a big difference

[1:01:34] um >> no big is is our it's our capital gain

[1:01:37] on the the 3.6 year versus

[1:01:43] » I don't think it will be but just it's not a bad thing to think about as I mean

[1:01:48] John's right as I think >> so the army approval I mean I don't know

[1:01:53] if there's other I'm sure you're you're pressuring them but I don't know if

[1:01:56] there other things we can do to you know calls from the mayor calls from other

[1:02:01] community members to >> US representatives I don't I'm just

[1:02:04] trying to think of how we can influence that um Yeah. Uh that I mean great

[1:02:09] question and and I I did put that to our consultants. Um is there any anything

[1:02:14] that we can be doing at this point? You know what where can we apply pressure?

[1:02:18] And yeah, he said it's I mean so his his take was that they're kind of an an

[1:02:24] immovable object. They're a federal agency and they're um they they're

[1:02:31] not trans not very transparent and you you kind of have to uh be a squeaky

[1:02:36] wheel. Um, I'm sure mayor, council members, maybe

[1:02:41] um, you know, a letter or or something from or even the subcommittee actually

[1:02:46] would would, um, >> I assume you are being his squeaky

[1:02:49] wheel. Is that right? You >> Yeah, exactly.

[1:02:51] » bugging them tag team with them. >> And John making just a great point. I

[1:02:56] mean, talk to talk to them. If if they'd like to draft a letter that the mayor

[1:03:01] can sign, I'll talk to Sally about that. I'm sure we can do that. to a degree

[1:03:06] it's just adding to the squeaky. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think that's

[1:03:11] Yeah. I mean it kind of hurt the federal maybe our member of Congress

[1:03:16] » maybe.

[1:03:23] » Yeah. Um yeah that's that's a very good point. Um

[1:03:26] » I mean it seems like we should prepare for that but

[1:03:29] » I mean time is getting short but that all will take time to do. So

[1:03:34] » yeah we can certainly do that. Um, >> okay. Well, we should probably consider

[1:03:38] any final things we want to cover here, >> Tony. Were there other things we

[1:03:41] haven't? >> Um, yeah, two two other things that I

[1:03:44] didn't hadn't included in the memo really because like I say, it's sort of

[1:03:48] as we speak sort of discussions. One of them is is that uh there was a

[1:03:52] suggestion from the contractor that we move the people living there uh into a

[1:03:57] hotel for a few nights. Um, that would allow them to cut and cap all the

[1:04:00] utilities, do the work. they wouldn't have to do the bypasses and the and the

[1:04:04] temporary services uh to keep people uh and and they would be disruptions in any

[1:04:09] case to those people living there um even with the the bypasses. Um so that

[1:04:15] was an interesting suggestion and something yeah I um ran by Robert um

[1:04:21] this morning. >> How many households is it? How many

[1:04:23] homes is it? Um so uh there are in 16 to 20 there are three three homes uh

[1:04:30] » is it seven total from 16 to 30. >> Yeah. Or three

[1:04:35] » right. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> Um so that's something we'll definitely

[1:04:40] » and make it attractive. I mean they could stay locally or they could go

[1:04:43] somewhere else if they want to take a >> go time. I mean couldn't we couldn't we

[1:04:47] give them a I don't know a budget and say go somewhere. Well, as a contractor,

[1:04:52] I mean, I'm sure the contractor saying it's on us. It's not a huge amount of

[1:04:56] money, but I'm sure they're it's it's making it easier for them, too.

[1:04:59] » Exactly. Well, that's >> You wonder should come out of their

[1:05:02] contract price because it's going to make it easier for them,

[1:05:04] » right? Yeah. And and well, so we said, you know, what would your uh what would

[1:05:09] your cost if if we were able to to do that? What would your cost for that

[1:05:12] section of work be? Um, so they they are going to uh look more closely at it and

[1:05:17] hopefully get us a number. If you tell them they can save the the motel down

[1:05:20] the road, they're going to be like, "No, don't do it." But log on. You're telling

[1:05:25] me you can go, you know, put this 1,500 bucks for the Ritz Carlton in Half Moon

[1:05:29] Bay. Bad idea. So anyway, >> yeah. No, I mean, look at the numbers. I

[1:05:34] mean, 270,000 kind of, you know, just a

[1:05:38] » Oh, it's on it's on that contract versus I thought the broader contract.

[1:05:42] » Um, well, it would be broader contract. >> Yes. That's a yeah, just as a sort of a

[1:05:46] number for just that that portion of the utilities and the gang ways kind of

[1:05:50] thing. Um, which would actually the gang ways would still need to be removed. But

[1:05:54] » I mean, so it's a $20,000 number at the end of the day if it's if it's a few

[1:05:57] nights, you know, for seven households, something like that.

[1:06:00] » Yeah. Yeah. >> You got to sort of

[1:06:03] be, you know,, 1500 bucks a night, you're going to have to, it's going to

[1:06:06] have to be attractive like that, I would think, for someone

[1:06:09] » want to do it. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, just another

[1:06:14] angle that we're sort of looking at. I guess the thing is is it's all or none

[1:06:18] really. Um, if if one person doesn't want to do it, then we can't Yeah. make

[1:06:23] it uh >> I think at least some of them make them

[1:06:26] temporary and not temporary. I don't know if they're all full-time residents.

[1:06:29] I think some of the part-time residents, I believe. So, might

[1:06:34] » Right. Yeah. Good. >> They're all wrenches, but we part time.

[1:06:39] » Yeah, good good point. And and I believe a couple of those units are empty. Um so

[1:06:43] they're not all it's not seven full, it might be only five. Um

[1:06:47] » and and all and since they are they're all rentals, I mean all rental

[1:06:51] agreements have um utility outage provisions. So arguably it's not that

[1:06:56] it's not that the landlord can't legally do that,

[1:06:59] » right? >> Where we're where the landlord's

[1:07:01] » Yeah. >> agent in that in that aspect,

[1:07:03] » right? Yeah. And I think Chris actually mentioned this. I think I think our

[1:07:09] general guidance or general sort of thought with this also related to the

[1:07:12] the the new option as far as outbound if the gang way is not moving is like knock

[1:07:18] your socks off but as but but obviously our our our provision or or our guidance

[1:07:22] is is to keep it sort of cost neutral or cost positive you know when it becomes

[1:07:26] cost negative that's where you really want to question the logic because we

[1:07:29] have a we have a guaranteed you know type of um arrangement with someone more

[1:07:33] than we wanted but nonetheless we have that so let's not go from there upward

[1:07:37] let's Let's add things and subtract things and modify things as they are

[1:07:41] cost benefit. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's

[1:07:44] that's really our our primary um aim. Yeah. Um

[1:07:51] » so you said two things. That was one. >> Um yes. So that was one. Uh the other

[1:07:57] Oh. Um yeah, it was I guess to share a traffic

[1:08:03] control plan that was just submitted today. Um if if you're interested in

[1:08:08] seeing that um

[1:08:12] just because this is uh so this is provided by the by the

[1:08:18] contractor submitted uh we would still need to approve the official.

[1:08:25] Okay. >> Adrian, do you have a comment?

[1:08:31] Uh

[1:08:34] um I think well several things I'm sorry I I apologize but the communication uh

[1:08:40] throughout this meeting has been very difficult for for me so I've been uh

[1:08:44] I've heard a bit um uh but I I don't I think the best thing at this point I've

[1:08:50] missed quite a bit coming in and out um sorry

[1:08:54] uh but the the last thing and the most important thing I just wanted to clarify

[1:08:59] uh Tony and everyone that just to to make sure that we're all on the same

[1:09:02] page, but the contractor never indicated and or initiated communication on

[1:09:06] relocating residents. >> Okay.

[1:09:11] » That no, that was never ever the case. No. Um so that was brought up through

[1:09:16] the um um the ease of eliminating their statements of if they could cap and um

[1:09:25] um um uh take the gas line out is the primary issue. So, if they can cap the

[1:09:32] gas line for x amount of days to be determined uh that they are going to be

[1:09:38] getting back to us once now that they have the information that we're looking

[1:09:42] for that would uh potentially prompt uh um

[1:09:48] uh you know a lot a lot less work in that area. So there's a lot of moving

[1:09:51] parts to that, but they certainly did not have a plan or said, "Hey, listen,

[1:09:56] if we if you know, we can achieve this if the residents are gone." You know, it

[1:10:00] it's been a moving uh a topic of discussion on how to

[1:10:06] accommodate and or um uh make temporary facilities uh usable. and um in

[1:10:12] discussions and within just the last couple of days uh internally was it

[1:10:18] discussed that well maybe that's a better option and then out of that I

[1:10:22] discussed just this morning with the contractor I believe this was discussed

[1:10:26] yesterday Tony correct me if I'm wrong when we initially started to talk about

[1:10:30] it >> yes yesterday afternoon

[1:10:33] » so so yesterday we discussed this that maybe this is a viable solution so

[1:10:39] » this morning I reached out to the contract

[1:10:43] Great. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, uh, Adrian. Um, I stand corrected is the suggestion

[1:10:50] didn't come from the contractor. It was more part of that conversation.

[1:10:54] » We hear you. Thanks, Adrian. >> Yeah. Yeah.

[1:10:58] » Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay.

[1:11:00] » Um, yeah. And that's again just just Yeah. The gas line that he that he was

[1:11:05] talking about, there's a question of perhaps that could be capped. Um and the

[1:11:11] so the water would be maintained to the to the homes but if if they could live

[1:11:15] without gas for a little longer. Um and yeah so really out of that that

[1:11:19] discussion uh the idea of the hotel uh uh

[1:11:24] offer was uh came from that. Um yeah so thanks Adrian and yeah let us know if

[1:11:33] you have anything else. Um >> uh well yeah I mean there were several

[1:11:37] other things but I think at the best point I'll kind of recap um um again and

[1:11:43] there were on some of the design changes I mean I had some insight on it um and

[1:11:46] some of the you know with respect to the water work versus landside work. Uh

[1:11:59] we've lost you Adrian. Yeah. Okay. Um

[1:12:07] this is just a the uh to show you the the traffic plan that's been uh provided

[1:12:13] by uh uh the contractor. Um so this plan would be for weekends and overnight. Um

[1:12:20] so basically uh two-lane traffic would be maintained uh throughout the site. Uh

[1:12:27] the work zone in front of the buildings over here would be their staging area.

[1:12:31] » Is that fenced in? Is that where it's fenced in?

[1:12:34] » Yes. Yeah. So that's uh certainly in front in front of these buildings. Um so

[1:12:39] that they'll be um forget what they barriers filled with

[1:12:44] water big blocks that would be would protect that that zone. Um yeah and

[1:12:53] that's uh along Beach Road. But but is there like I see the works on there, but

[1:12:57] that orange line above it? >> Yeah.

[1:13:00] » Will there be a fence there? >> Um so there there'll definitely be a

[1:13:05] barrier and it might actually be on here. Um but not a fence. Exactly. Um

[1:13:12] » three foot plastic barriers. Orange. >> Yeah. Yeah. Those Yeah, those orange

[1:13:16] plastic barriers. They get filled with water, so they're heavy for the

[1:13:19] vehicles. >> Um you

[1:13:22] I I just wonder I mean those are they're wider than they need. they're wider and

[1:13:25] they're short. Um, and it it's not going to prevent access if there's

[1:13:31] » Right. Yeah. And I think well and that's a great point. I mean, do we do we need

[1:13:37] something >> I I guess I'm throwing out the question,

[1:13:39] you know, one of the issues of job sites is you want to prevent access. You want

[1:13:42] to security and safety and liability and everything else and you don't want it to

[1:13:46] become a >> I don't know tempting kids or anybody

[1:13:50] else to climb around there. >> Yeah. It's a a fence might be a better

[1:13:56] fence panels might be a better option >> or just throw it out to them, you know,

[1:13:59] how do they want to protect the site? How do they want to um protect their

[1:14:02] equipment, you know, protect the city from liability and ourselves from

[1:14:05] liability, >> right? Yeah. Especially over weekends

[1:14:08] and um yeah, when there's not going to be people around during the day even

[1:14:14] » and so dur during the day it goes to alternative one way.

[1:14:17] » Yes. >> From peninsula to main street.

[1:14:19] » Right. Correct. Exactly. And we have flaggers um to to direct traffic through

[1:14:26] uh through there. Um but yeah, this section over here would be

[1:14:31] um one way in one direction and then and then in another.

[1:14:34] » Is that expected for 65 days basically that

[1:14:38] or is that of the time? >> That's I I

[1:14:44] would say no. Um but I couldn't tell you sort of how long that how long it would

[1:14:48] be. the this the main thing here would be this would this is when that section

[1:14:53] of road is is excavated and you've got that alignment in the street that that

[1:14:57] work happening um which I think they've called phase phase one

[1:15:03] » um yeah so that's um generally speaking are are flaggers deemed more effective

[1:15:10] and more um traffic u um positive than you know fixed signals

[1:15:18] » great question. Um I think I think so. Um because they're able to communicate

[1:15:25] and um if nobody's coming, they can let people through more quickly. Um

[1:15:31] » I'm pretty sure that that there are AI um signals available these days. Uh so

[1:15:37] that would probably be ideal, but um I don't know if they're available.

[1:15:41] » Okay. >> But yeah. Um yeah. Uh next one is Yeah.

[1:15:47] So when the work zone is happening, this is phase two. This is where when work is

[1:15:53] happening further down beach road towards Main Street. Um so both lanes

[1:15:58] would be open um between Peninsula and Cove and when that's happening then we

[1:16:05] have a lane closed between Cove and Maine.

[1:16:08] So yeah, fairly fairly straightforward but um sometimes just visualizing it is

[1:16:13] useful. >> Thank you.

[1:16:17] Okay. Um I guess the next question is whether this group wants to convene

[1:16:22] again and have another review or what how how and when we would do that if we

[1:16:27] do that. >> Um yeah I mean we can certainly when uh

[1:16:31] » I think when we have the numbers to see if there are savings in this alternative

[1:16:35] it' be good to have the next one before then I don't really

[1:16:39] » Army Corp of Engineers. >> Yes. Yeah.

[1:16:43] » Yeah. and and hopefully a date of construction and and um sort of

[1:16:47] stabilizing to >> we'll leave it up to but it sounds like

[1:16:49] it's got to be middle beginning to middle of June

[1:16:52] » maybe late June if >> well we should know I think by the by

[1:16:56] the second week of June whether that 20 whether whether we're going to get the

[1:16:59] permit or not by the second >> hopefully yeah yeah exactly um and

[1:17:06] basically as soon as we know then and I'm hoping these sort of alternative

[1:17:10] designs and so on can be can be straightened out long before then so

[1:17:16] that everything's ready to go and the moment we get the the the word from the

[1:17:20] army we can >> Are you allowed to give um written

[1:17:24] updates to this group or does it have to be on public meeting like this?

[1:17:29] » It's a good question. Um I can ask Beth. I mean I think it would be I don't see

[1:17:35] why it can't be. >> You probably can do uh uh

[1:17:40] uh agenda related updates. That's all we're talking about. This is, you know,

[1:17:44] you know, these the these design modifications. Yay. No, yes, no go. You

[1:17:49] know, costbenefit, you know, decisions. Um, as long as we post them

[1:17:54] appropriately, >> right? Yeah.

[1:17:55] » So, maybe do that for for for these as they're available, you know, modest, you

[1:17:59] know, quick update based on our meeting last time and post it. I think that

[1:18:02] should be okay. Um, and then we're clearly going to need to need need to,

[1:18:07] you know, understand or make broader decisions. should you come

[1:18:12] and we either do or don't get this permit from ACE and then you have your

[1:18:17] by that point um clear understanding of whether this can this can this can

[1:18:20] proceed right >> in this this window.

[1:18:23] » Yeah. Exactly. >> So it's like you said end of June.

[1:18:25] » Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. Um so it sounds like

[1:18:29] written updates sort of as they become available

[1:18:33] » don't do a lot because they have to be agenda based. They have to be you know I

[1:18:36] believe they you can't bring in new information. I think they have to be

[1:18:38] based on what we've talked about, >> right?

[1:18:40] » And you have to follow the whatever rules Beth gives you.

[1:18:42] » Yeah. Yeah. All the all the rules. Yeah. Um Yeah. Okay. So, periodic updates, I

[1:18:48] guess, based on it's only a month. It's only been a month away. So, true. Yeah.

[1:18:52] » Yeah. So, so in a couple weeks, just say, you know, we've we've cleared up

[1:18:55] these design issues. We're going to do X or we're going to do Y.

[1:18:58] » Um and then we're AC, you know, the core of engineers is here and we'll talk

[1:19:02] about it more in this next meeting. Just real simple. Uh would you like to pencil

[1:19:06] in a date sort of late mid to late June? Um just so we've got something on the

[1:19:12] calendar. >> Can you I'm probably going to be I'll be

[1:19:15] remote then but probably dialing. >> Is that Can we do a remote meeting like

[1:19:20] that or is that >> be I think at least two of you three

[1:19:23] here. Um um

[1:19:28] I think I'll meet this whole second half of June. And I expect to be right.

[1:19:35] » Well, why don't let's choose the week of the 15th. But

[1:19:38] » okay, >> but why don't you as you get more

[1:19:40] information? I mean, if everything is going going swim similarly and you've

[1:19:44] got your your your your permits and we don't need to meet again. So, let's

[1:19:47] let's target that week and do a you in the next two weeks. Um you should have

[1:19:51] more information from the core of engineers and why don't you um you know

[1:19:55] shoot a a few proposed times and see if we have a quorum.

[1:19:59] » Okay. At the end of the day, that's going to be the issue whether we can

[1:20:01] have a quorum to do it. >> Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. So, the

[1:20:04] week of June 15th, you know, we we'll sort of um

[1:20:08] » or the 22. I mean, we'll do the same be there,

[1:20:13] » right? Okay. That's the week of the 22nd. I'm not here. So, you're gone and

[1:20:18] I'm gone. >> Yeah.

[1:20:24] » Okay. Yeah. Well, so then the 15th is is >> really the 15th and we'll we'll try to

[1:20:30] make a forum there. >> Great.

[1:20:34] » Okay. >> Yeah, sounds good. Um and yeah, thank

[1:20:39] you. I mean the only other thing actually to to add is the uh public

[1:20:42] outreach. Um and we were planning on on having engaged people already given them

[1:20:50] uh given them details especially the residents of the homes. Um we know that

[1:20:53] there have been articles in the ark. Um um the conclusion we've come to is that

[1:20:59] we if we don't actually have any details to give them um it's not going to be it

[1:21:04] may be unhelpful to to say there's this big disruptive project coming but we

[1:21:08] don't know dates and we don't know which gang ways are going to be open and so

[1:21:11] on. So um soon as we've got a little bit more um that we can kind of uh that we

[1:21:18] can tell them um then we're going to we're going to move move to do that. um

[1:21:23] the homeowners, the residents at uh 16 to 38 Beach. Um we'd like to, you know,

[1:21:29] have a as sort of uh intimate is probably the wrong word, but informal

[1:21:34] and uh sort of on-site um communication as possible. Um so knocking on doors,

[1:21:41] inviting people to a meeting, um and then uh you know, and then you know,

[1:21:45] being able to answer questions directly and giving cards in case there are um

[1:21:50] follow-up questions and so on. Uh and then a a bigger workshop which would be

[1:21:54] in the community center downstairs and that would be so sort of for everybody.

[1:21:58] Um and that would be with you know design engineers there to answer

[1:22:02] questions and present plans. We'd be able to show traffic plans and and have

[1:22:06] more of a show and tell uh at that point. Um and so those would be the two

[1:22:10] main public outreach activities and then uh a web page on the city website uh

[1:22:16] with with updates um and yeah have that available. the web page definitely um

[1:22:24] open up a can of worms if you have a public meeting like that but

[1:22:28] » right >> I mean I think there's two issues I mean

[1:22:32] one public meaning the broad public I think that's great

[1:22:37] » I I I get some feedback from the property owners in relation to the the

[1:22:41] tenants themselves >> you know if the property owners are okay

[1:22:44] with it and their their tenants are okay with it you know I wouldn't go overboard

[1:22:48] with Okay.

[1:22:50] » And just I mean if if we need to Yes. Let's go over work with that. I'm saying

[1:22:53] if if the if the property owners and the tenants are okay with what you're doing

[1:22:56] and >> and so forth and you got the proper

[1:22:57] ement sign. >> We got to get the ements signed. Yeah.

[1:23:01] Yeah. At first because we don't want to start raising questions and give someone

[1:23:05] letter. Oh, yeah. We need to get those signed before we do. I mean,

[1:23:10] » yes. you just to the degree the public knows about

[1:23:16] this is if they've been paying attention and the arc hasn't talked about it too

[1:23:20] much and we haven't really had all things um

[1:23:25] we have to do some sort of public u meaning I understand uh

[1:23:32] just there could be definitely a a registered these works by something

[1:23:36] which I can't even think of but you know >> I guess but that's the nature of our

[1:23:40] business Right. Yeah. No, I mean it's a very good point and this is this is

[1:23:44] something Robert's definitely more sort of um sort of

[1:23:48] » that in mind you're probably better off doing it sooner than later. I mean I I

[1:23:51] know you want information to be final and to be as accurate as possible but um

[1:23:57] » but if we're on the verge of getting the easements signed, let's get those signed

[1:24:00] first. >> Okay.

[1:24:01] » Because we don't want them to say, "Well, before we do that, let me check

[1:24:04] with my tenants and see what complaints they have and what demands they might

[1:24:07] have." And then yeah, we should push to get those done.

[1:24:11] » Yeah, let's get those signed once we know whether we can start this year and

[1:24:16] if it's start of August or late August, then we can have the public forum.

[1:24:21] » I think I think our biggest opposition is going to come from the peninsula

[1:24:24] people or road people which mean justify just

[1:24:27] » right >> disruption. Yeah, for sure.

[1:24:32] » Yeah. We say we're putting a seaw wall so your house doesn't flood. Hopefully

[1:24:38] so that road doesn't fall in the house is not washed away.

[1:24:43] » Okay. Um Okay. Anything else? >> N that's it. We'll turn till next time.

[1:24:50] » Thank you. Yeah. Thanks very much and the meeting.

[1:24:56] » Thank you guys.

[1:24:59] influences governor's house with the

Beach Road Stabilization Project Oversight Subcommittee Meeting: May 20, 2026

Agenda

Transcript