[0:01] [throat clear] All right, let's call to order the September 16th,

[0:04] 2026 Big Lake City Council Workshop.

[0:07] Let the record reflect that all council members are present.

[0:13] Before us is our agenda. Looking for a motion to approve that.

[0:16] So moved. second. So moved by Phil and seconded by Naughty.

[0:21] All in favor say I. I. I.

[0:23] Oppose same sign.

[0:25] Motion carries. We have an agenda.

[0:28] All right, moving on to four uh, 4A,

[0:30] 2027 Street Project update.

[0:34] Lane, the floor is yours.

[0:37] Good evening, Mayor and council members.

[0:45] So, there's two areas that we're considering for next year.

[0:47] One is Lake Shore Drive and Hiawatha Avenue,

[0:49] which is a mill and overlay, concrete repairs.

[0:52] The other is continuing the extension of Minnesota Avenue,

[0:55] that'd be phase two next year, going across the field to the

[0:59] from the west and we're pursuing a grant to fill a gap.

[1:06] Uh, but tonight I'm going to focus on Lake Shore Drive

[1:08] and Hiawatha Avenue.

[1:11] Uh, pavement's in poor condition, it's about 2.2 miles long.

[1:15] Uh, the work looks to include milling, paving, curb

[1:16] and sidewalk replacement.

[1:19] Uh, we will need to do a seawall repair on the north

[1:21] end of that. Uh, it's about 80 ft long of seawall

[1:23] retaining wall next to the lake.

[1:29] We are investigating.

[1:30] We held eight open houses over the past two weeks

[1:33] and there's general support from the residents for that.

[1:38] 27 people attended and they represented 18 properties.

[1:42] I explained the project work and the assessments.

[1:44] Uh, besides being supportive, uh,

[1:46] some of them had assessment questions and access concerns.

[1:50] Uh, a couple of people also did mention at the meetings that

[1:54] although the residents on the Lake Shore and Hiawatha

[1:56] are being assessed,

[1:59] they thought that for the stub streets, they should also be

[2:02] paying for Lake Shore Drive too in Hiawatha because it's

[2:05] the only access.

[2:08] However, we do have other streets where cul-de-sacs tie in

[2:11] and there's only one road to get in and out.

[2:14] And our policy is to share the cost 60-40, citywide

[2:18] and we've been consistent since the late 90s doing that.

[2:22] Everyone gets their turn and uh, regardless if they live on a stub

[2:25] street or cul-de-sac

[2:28] or not or or on a through street.

[2:31] Hey, one quick question on that.

[2:32] So the people that live on the, you know, so many else we said that,

[2:36] Somebody that lives on one of the stub streets

[2:37] but has a, uh, a spot where they can put their dock.

[2:43] Does that person get assessed because they have

[2:45] the dock right there?

[2:46] Property on Lake Shore Drive or Hiawatha, if they're on the lake,

[2:49] they get assessed.

[2:51] If they happen to live back on a stub street,

[2:54] then they pay for their portion.

[2:57] Or if they live across the street, they pay on both sides.

[3:00] Okay, so then the question.

[3:01] So like, and I don't know, so you're

[3:04] So if you're on a corner lot,

[3:05] if you're on a corner lot, you pay one side.

[3:07] If we went through and assessed them on their street

[3:09] that's in front of their house,

[3:13] do they still get assessed the full for the Lake Shore

[3:15] because they're separate

[3:18] or is that like the same as a corner lot where

[3:20] if you got two pieces, you get assessed on the largest one

[3:24] but not the shortest one?

[3:27] They get assessed on both.

[3:29] And the reason it's the same PID.

[3:30] However, on the lake side, because the lake side's not

[3:32] buildable, but they can put docks now and there,

[3:34] you know, the patio, they can improve it.

[3:36] They pay at a 50% rate compared to.

[3:41] Compared to what? So it's half of the house.

[3:43] So let's say they both have 80 ft on both sides of the road.

[3:47] On their house side, they they pay the normal rate.

[3:51] But on the other side, they pay half of the rate.

[3:53] So the person who lives like, let's say down Westler,

[3:56] no, on one of the side streets that just got assessed

[3:58] for the road in front of their house,

[3:59] they would get that full assessment

[4:01] and then they would get the full assessment on the

[4:04] lake access piece too

[4:06] if it's like 20 ft wide or whatever it is.

[4:09] Half, right? Half,

[4:10] I think I know, I think I know what you mean.

[4:13] Uh, so let's say they live down Westwood, five houses down. Yep.

[4:17] Three years ago, Westwood was constructed and they had

[4:19] and on Westwood they had 80 ft,

[4:21] they paid for 80 ft at that time.

[4:24] Now we moved down the timeline three years

[4:28] and now Lake Shore is getting it, but they have a lake lot.

[4:30] Maybe they have 40 ft.

[4:33] So it only applies to the lake lot for this project.

[4:36] But even though their property is located over there,

[4:39] you know, the assessment gets mailed to them,

[4:43] but it's for the property that's on the lake.

[4:45] So they will. Okay. That was the question.

[4:46] No, the question. No, the question, the question.

[4:48] I use the corner for an example because that was the only one

[4:50] I could think of that was that way.

[4:52] So that's why I was asking.

[4:54] So, so they will still get assessed on the lake one

[4:56] because they're a part. Yep. And that.

[4:59] expensive. It's 50%

[5:01] Great.

[5:03] And right now the estimate of the

[5:05] what we've the information that we've

[5:08] shared at a very high level is uh that the assessment rate is about

[5:11] $30 a foot on the hall side, that means on the other side it'll be $15 a foot.

[5:16] Again, I have contingencies built in.

[5:18] We don't know exactly where oil's going right now

[5:20] and that has a big impact on asphalt and diesel.

[5:24] Um, but we'll see when we do the engineering report how everything

[5:28] shakes out, but right now we just let the residents know it's 30

[5:30] at a high level.

[5:34] All right, I'll just continue on here.

[5:36] Uh, here's a map just showing the area.

[5:39] Um, where how Lakeshore Drive wraps around the west side,

[5:42] and Hiawatha's on the north side of the lakes.

[5:47] Here's a picture of near Lakeside Park.

[5:50] Uh, I picked this picture to share with Council because there's a couple

[5:54] things going on here.

[5:55] One, we have a street that's um, in mean in poor shape.

[5:58] You can see Public Works has been out there several times with a

[6:01] different colored patching material.

[6:04] But they've now had to put in um,

[6:09] it's a skim coat in the traffic lanes

[6:12] uh for this little segment right here because it's deteriorated.

[6:17] If you notice on the other side of the other side of the street, the far side, the pavement

[6:20] looks like it's a good condition.

[6:22] Three years ago we did a one-inch mill and overlay with a contractor.

[6:25] It came in, milled it, patched it, and left.

[6:29] Uh, but the other side looked fine,

[6:30] but this is accelerated.

[6:32] Another thing to note is in front of this person's driveway,

[6:35] they're going to have curb replacement.

[6:36] You can see the curb is deteriorated and it's gone

[6:38] in these big sections.

[6:40] Uh, we'll be replacing that curb.

[6:42] You see the curb on the other side too.

[6:45] Yeah, it's from this from here going to US 10.

[6:48] It's the curb's in tough shape.

[6:53] Here's a here's a sidewalk next to the sea wall, which is in the

[6:55] Westwood area.

[6:59] The sidewalk's cracked and settled, moved a little bit,

[7:01] so we're going to be replacing this and on the north, or on the far end

[7:03] of this picture, you can see there's some saw cutting there.

[7:07] That's where, uh, we're doing an exploration to see what's going on

[7:10] and we're going to have to fix the wall on that end.

[7:14] Estimated cost is about $950,000.

[7:18] paid by City CIP Fund 196 and our state aid column.

[7:21] It'll mostly be paid by state aid, however.

[7:25] Uh, most of all the work will be eligible.

[7:29] Special assessments have been estimated at a very high level

[7:32] of $30 per front foot for lots with a house or a buildable lot.

[7:36] And on the opposite side, typically we find that's where the lake lots are,

[7:39] between the lake and the street, and that is half the rate.

[7:43] Uh, previous mill and overlays have been in the mid 20s

[7:47] recently. The seawall repair may be expensive,

[7:50] however, we're going to, we really were looking to minimize

[7:52] the shortest section.

[7:55] With that, I'm happy to receive comment or answer questions.

[7:59] Thanks, Lane.

[8:00] A lot of that curb, is it just cheaper to rip it out

[8:03] than pay so me to cut this piece out and then 8 ft. put this piece out

[8:06] and cut this piece out.

[8:09] Labor intensive wise, it's very much more, so

[8:13] is there like a 50/50, it's one or the other, you pay for labor, you pay

[8:16] for concrete.

[8:17] I mean, is it just cheaper to have it rip out so much of that it's just

[8:20] junk. Rip it out and replace it?

[8:22] Uh, Mr. Mayor and Council members,

[8:24] if you look at the overall cost of replacing it all versus just doing

[8:27] small segments,

[8:30] it's going to be cheaper to do the small segments.

[8:33] One of the reasons why is

[8:35] it costs more per foot when you do the smaller segments rather than

[8:37] doing the longer segments.

[8:40] However, if we rip out all the curb next to the sidewalk, we're going

[8:42] to lose the sidewalk,

[8:45] the majority of it,

[8:46] because that the foundation next to the sidewalk will erode away,

[8:50] and the sidewalk might do this or it might do it in the future.

[8:54] Uh, right now.

[8:55] So we want to keep the curb in place to hold the sidewalk back and

[8:58] protect that.

[9:00] Um, the cost will probably just to replace these short sections of curb

[9:06] will probably be in the neighborhood of $60 a foot.

[9:09] If we were to do long stretches, we'd probably get it down to $40

[9:12] a foot.

[9:14] But then we're we're replacing a lot of the curb that's in fine condition.

[9:18] Well, I'm not saying all the. I'm not saying tear out all the curb, but

[9:20] there are sections where it's like crap, crap, crap, crap.

[9:23] And then you get kind of towards the other end, and there's just a little

[9:25] piece here or a little piece there, but

[9:28] is it more cost beneficial that that first area is really bad?

[9:32] Is you get going.

[9:34] One of the things we can do is we can we can bid it out in a way where

[9:37] there's two options for the contractor to bid,

[9:39] where they'll do, we did this in 2004, down on Harrison.

[9:42] Two to three-foot sections will have a cost per lineal foot, that one'll

[9:45] probably be high.

[9:48] But if we exceed that and we're doing sections maybe greater than

[9:51] 6 feet, is what we or 8 feet, we do long stretches,

[9:55] then they'd give us a different price for that.

[9:58] because there's a cost in economy, right, by doing longer sections.

[10:02] The other thing we want to avoid is when we're replacing more curb, we're

[10:06] doing more restoration. We're getting into people's yards, irrigation,

[10:11] possible landscaping. So by keeping the small slivers, it's not gonna

[10:16] look the best, but it's gonna save us quite a bit of money. There's a

[10:20] difference between maybe a 150,000 and 300,000.

[10:22] the worst part of the curb does seems to be on the lakeside of it.

[10:26] When you go, when you go, when you go pedaling your bike around there, the

[10:32] side on the lake, it seems to be the side that sucks.

[10:32] the side that sucks.

[10:35] And, I mean, I'd like to see it where it's where it's really bad,

[10:42] where we're gonna have a three-foot piece and a good whole three foot and

[10:43] a good three-foot and a whole three foot we're cutting up.

[10:44] I like to see it to pend it all to where the really bad like it's every

[10:52] five feet,

[10:52] fix it replacing that and then like you said, the other areas where it's

[10:56] like the one piece there but it's only one, that's different.

[10:57] But it's only one, that's different.

[10:58] But some of it is just, and some of them are really going to pitch your

[11:02] sh will be there. It's wide.

[11:03] already.

[11:05] Um,

[11:06] I mean,

[11:07] and you put new concrete next to old concrete as it deteriorates the old

[11:14] concrete, now we're gonna new piece and the new piece is just going to

[11:15] deteriorate. I don't know, I, I'd like to see it where it's really bad

[11:18] bad and you don't wanna talk about what you've been over there.

[11:20] I thought I, maybe I didn't explain that, but that's what the plan would

[11:23] be if we have all these sections where it's really opened up and we're

[11:28] saving very little between the repairs then we just take it.

[11:29] repairs then we just take it.

[11:30] Okay.

[11:31] That's that's what you didn't say that.

[11:32] that when we do that next to the sidewalk it becomes problematic and

[11:36] and can run the costs up. Uh, Conry Oppitts has been doing this for decades

[11:39] where they do the slivers and it doesn't look good.

[11:42] But we can also use a clear, a clear curing compound instead of the bright

[11:48] white for this so it doesn't look like a checker.

[11:50] I mean, it will stand out. Well, it's gonna stand out, but it's what we did last

[11:53] it will stand out. Well, it's gonna stand out, but it's what we did last

[11:54] year, uh, up uh, north on the north side of pineline drive.

[11:59] But when I do the engineering report, I'll come back with information.

[12:02] We can dig into it deeper.

[12:04] Okay.

[12:05] Are we replacing any of the backside sidewalks along there as well?

[12:10] The what?

[12:11] If the sidewalk, the square's like cracked in the middle, are we replacing

[12:15] any of that or? Yeah, we're gonna have spot replacement of sidewalk

[12:19] throughout the

[12:20] throughout the 2.2 miles.

[12:22] So then when you do this project,

[12:24] this project, so next year project, right?

[12:26] Yeah.

[12:27] is Hanna is it beneficial, we gotta fix that piece by the lake.

[12:34] That piece by the lake is eventually he's gonna take the Dame fence with it.

[12:39] Is it is it better to would it be better to would it be better to sit on that piece and have em do the two or two or three pieces that got to be replaced over there at

[12:48] the same time?

[12:49] Mayor, he's talking about the Esplanade.

[12:50] Um, so there is a crack on, on Highway 10. on Highway 10. And it shifted.

[12:56] on Highway 10. And it shifted.

[12:57] It's literally shifted and it's holding it is the pole for the fence.

[13:01] Yeah.

[13:02] Norm has been in discussions with the state on on this. Um, the DNR may have to get involved as

[13:08] well but we'll have to shut down a portion of Highway 10 in order to yeah. So

[13:12] my question is is it is if we made it to October

[13:14] and you're doing this next year, is it

[13:18] financially cheaper to say, uh, if we're gonna already gonna be over doing

[13:22] gonna already gonna be over doing the retaining wall and have to deal with the

[13:26] DNR and the retaining wall, possibly.

[13:29] I, I don't know anything about that.

[13:30] I know but possibly.

[13:31] finding him to save money and ever. Wait, till next year to do that one you're saying?

[13:36] Well, I'm just saying if they got both of 'em are gonna have to deal with the DNR or

[13:40] Norm to fix that one over there and Lane to fix the sidewalk and retaining wall over

[13:44] there, is it is it going to be cheaper to piggyback 'em?

[13:48] I'm not very happy though the one over here is it is it fixed? I've been on

[13:51] Norm pretty hard for this one but,

[13:52] is it financially better for us?

[13:55] I don't think we have the answers for that right now for this conversation.

[14:00] Yeah. Yeah.

[14:01] Something to check into?

[14:03] We'd have to work with Norm because he's been talking to the state about this. So I, I know there's a timeline that that they'll have to match up in order to figure out if they can fix that panel.

[14:13] Yeah. Or panels. Or panels. Maybe they'd say it's not even going to save us anything.

[14:18] That that could be the answer. Yep, yep, absolutely.

[14:20] I just feel up to deal with the DNR once. May as well.

[14:22] Yeah. Once they get a full, check it up. Whatever.

[14:26] They're such friendly people.

[14:27] Okay, anything else, Lane?

[14:29] Okay. Anything else, any other questions or comments for Lane?

[14:33] Okay, thank you.

[14:34] Oh, the only thing I wanted to add is for next year, I would like to hold open houses for Minnesota Avenue, which is two property owners just for that segment.

[14:42] Um, then to hold an open house one evening and invite the Smith Trust property for a presentation.

[14:49] Okay. So, if anyone had any concerns with that,

[14:52] just get the ball rolling on it.

[14:55] Sounds fine to me.

[14:56] If you think it's a good idea.

[14:57] There's several hours away so if there's an opportunity to kind of coordinate with him,

[15:03] I want to be able to respond quick.

[15:06] Okay.

[15:07] Let's move on 4B, which is Big Lake strategic plan

[15:10] discussion. Hannah, you kicking this off?

[15:12] Yeah, I can kick it off.

[15:13] Um, so good evening everybody.

[15:14] This is a continuation of your discussion from September 2nd.

[15:18] Um, and the only other item on workshop this evening.

[15:21] Uh, so you have the memo in front of you,

[15:24] uh, is what you have asked for for

[15:27] um more input from the management team.

[15:30] The management team has provided you

[15:32] um some modified language to consider,

[15:35] as well as uh some considerations

[15:38] for additional projects that are above and beyond

[15:41] the normal work that we do everyday service.

[15:44] Um, also included is a draft of the outcome of

[15:48] September 2nd.

[15:50] I just want to remind you too, um, prior to discussion that

[15:54] uh, the discussion is organized around

[15:56] the five core functions of city government,

[15:59] admin, finance, public safety, infrastructure and

[16:01] utilities, land use and development.

[16:03] And again, please don't get um caught up on where

[16:06] the projects lie within each of those categories,

[16:11] uh, because the management team will certainly

[16:12] take the information from your discussions and

[16:15] organize it afterwards.

[16:17] Gina was nice enough to um prepare some slides

[16:19] for you today.

[16:21] Um, so we have each core function that I just listed,

[16:25] um, that I can go back and forth to, however your

[16:27] discussion goes,

[16:29] and then we have the modified language for you

[16:32] to consider as well as um additional projects.

[16:35] So with that, I can take any questions, but

[16:38] I'll just be listening and taking notes.

[16:41] Does anybody have any questions for Hannah right off the bat?

[16:46] Okay.

[16:47] All right.

[16:49] So, we all had a chance to read our packets.

[16:51] Does anybody have anything they'd like to say

[16:53] to start the discussion?

[16:58] I have a couple of things.

[17:01] Unless you want to go through these,

[17:03] does it make sense to go through them one by one and

[17:05] give it the thumbs up or the thumbs down?

[17:07] Uh, yeah, I think that's the only way we really, really

[17:09] can with the list this long.

[17:12] Okay.

[17:13] One thing I was going to say about this list,

[17:15] is that it's a great list. Thank you everybody

[17:17] for your good work.

[17:20] Um, I would like to have something that says what

[17:25] kind of putting a cost rating on it.

[17:30] Uh, some of the things on here don't look like they're

[17:32] going to cost much of anything.

[17:34] Some might cost, might be substantive.

[17:39] Um, even if it's like a rating of one, two or three, or

[17:43] one, two, three, four, five.

[17:46] Heavy cost, almost no cost.

[17:50] Um, because I think that would help to um,

[17:54] you know, ascertain whether we want to whether we're

[17:57] going to put it in or not.

[18:02] Um, especially with you know,

[18:05] our LGA basically going away and so on.

[18:07] So I think we need to be careful.

[18:10] But uh, like I said, a lot of it does seem like it's

[18:13] going to be lower cost or maybe staff time,

[18:16] which is a cost, but that type of thing.

[18:22] But I would like to see that or even if we

[18:25] do it as we go.

[18:31] But I'd like to see, I'd like to see something on there,

[18:33] a rating of it, one, two, three, one, two, three,

[18:35] four, five, whatever.

[18:37] So like under 50, under 150, under three, over 500?

[18:42] Yeah, could do it like that.

[18:43] Yeah. I wasn't thinking of a even.

[18:45] Well, if we put it in there instead of saying, well,

[18:47] look for a dollar amount, just

[18:49] the ones that are under 50,000 are ones,

[18:52] anything from 50 to 150 is a two,

[18:55] and then anything over like 500,000 is a, oh, shaky.

[19:00] Any or whatever.

[19:01] So you know where you're at. Shaky.

[19:04] Oh, shaky.

[19:05] That's why shaky.

[19:07] That's when you coach little kids football and you can't

[19:08] swear and you got to come up with something because

[19:10] you're mad.

[19:12] Oh, shaky.

[19:13] Makes you feel better.

[19:14] Um, before we get into this list, in the packet,

[19:15] there are also in this to consider the following

[19:19] modified numbers.

[19:23] Yeah.

[19:24] Okay.

[19:25] And there's an additional um also comment from Councilman

[19:28] Regarding, Minnesota. So don't forget about that too.

[19:33] Okay.

[19:34] Well, let's look at um,

[19:36] So, can I just mention that this doesn't have to be

[19:38] complete going to print today?

[19:43] No, it is.

[19:44] Um, you know, if we have to break it down due to time where

[19:48] we go through the list, modify that, and then do

[19:51] the cost rating

[19:54] because I we might be asking a lot from staff at this point

[19:57] to say, well, is that 50 or or 100?

[20:02] right.

[20:03] you know what I mean that we may not get the accuracy that we're

[20:06] Yeah. I wasn't looking at putting a number on it tonight.

[20:09] Oh, okay. Even if we do have a number though,

[20:13] We can still have it on the strategic plan. Just have a

[20:16] right of what you think it costs.

[20:19] I mean, can I ask up

[20:22] Are we dealing with anything that's a wish versus a necessity

[20:27] or a requirement on the list.

[20:31] This would be nice to have. No, this is required to have.

[20:35] That kind of thing. Say as we go, we can have that discussion.

[20:41] And costs is only one factor as to the importance of

[20:44] giving us done.

[20:46] Sometimes your most expensive ones are the most important ones

[20:49] you have done that are going to

[20:52] save efficiency and effectiveness and play into life safety issues.

[20:58] Okay. So if we uh, let's just go through them.

[21:02] We got we got an hour.

[21:05] Um, consider the following modified language and conduct a

[21:08] comprehensive review of chapters 1 through 9 of the city code

[21:11] to ensure existing ordinances remain legally compliant,

[21:13] operationally effective, consistent with current City

[21:16] Council priorities and community needs.

[21:19] That sounds fine.

[21:21] Yeah, I think this is a very important one. This is one of

[21:24] the top of my list.

[21:25] And there was just some confusion with where I was at the last

[21:28] meeting as to what the parameters were of the code

[21:32] revision.

[21:34] And I was understanding it incorrectly as to how

[21:37] far that went.

[21:40] And through discussions, uh, we got that worked out.

[21:43] So this verbage is perfect for my intent.

[21:48] Can we just go thumbs up or thumbs down?

[21:51] I'm fine with it. Anybody got a problem? Okay, thumbs up.

[21:54] Govern with integrity by maintaining a robust finance

[21:57] and personnel policy framework

[22:00] that guarantees compliance with state and federal laws while

[22:02] directly driving the council's key initiatives.

[22:06] Thumbs up. Of course.

[22:08] Well, but this one here has to be discussed just a little bit

[22:11] as what all this garbage in here says is we're going to review our

[22:15] financial plan and our person our financial policy, our our

[22:19] our uh personnel policy.

[22:23] Which that's that's the that's the Is that what that guarantees?

[22:27] That's a that's a shorter shorter term which is snaky.

[22:30] Yeah.

[22:31] Yep. But the reason is is that this language has to be put in

[22:34] there for governmental purposes.

[22:39] What language? The language that I just read? Yes. Okay.

[22:42] So we replaced what you just said.

[22:44] We do it yearly. Okay.

[22:46] We we have to do it yearly.

[22:47] But we're understanding.

[22:49] You're understanding. Yeah, we're understanding revision as it is now that it can be

[22:53] maintained, but we need to get everybody up to speed.

[22:56] But I understand that's done yearly.

[22:59] But we need to really dig into it, so.

[23:03] What does that actually mean?

[23:05] What will be happen?

[23:07] Review and revise the City Council's policies within

[23:10] the financial policy.

[23:12] It's just your financial policies is policies and procedures.

[23:15] Actually, these are not like codes, these are your policies

[23:18] and procedures.

[23:20] So this is how your finances are ran and the personnel is

[23:24] how your personnel is ran also.

[23:28] So there is always changes, there's always changes with

[23:31] your guys's directive.

[23:33] You need to be reviewing these because they are brought to you

[23:35] every year.

[23:37] You need to be making sure that the um these policies which are

[23:39] our guidelines to proceed

[23:41] are what you guys want.

[23:44] As well as what legal says you can do or cannot do

[23:47] and as well as what the state and Fed says you have to do.

[23:51] So, are we doing that already? You said

[23:54] Well, we're yes, we're maintaining the legality of it

[23:56] every year.

[23:58] However, have we done a thorough indepth as the council

[24:02] Right, look at it to see if the policies that are not

[24:04] governed are what

[24:06] we're what we're intending.

[24:10] Okay. And that hasn't been done in a long time.

[24:13] The financial end of it, I think will be very quick.

[24:16] The personnel, we do have some changes because of um the

[24:19] different laws that have come down from the state that we need

[24:22] to

[24:24] Okay, look at. All right. So it's a thumbs up then.

[24:27] Oversee the redevelopment of the City Hall old school building

[24:30] site to attract a high quality development project that

[24:33] maximizes the potential of one of the community's most visible

[24:36] parcels, while increasing the city's tax base and supporting

[24:39] long-term economic growth.

[24:41] Absolutely. Yeah.

[24:43] Thumbs up.

[24:43] What and why did that get so wordy?

[24:46] Is that a reason to or are we just playing politics here?

[24:49] Um, there is going to be a potential, I mean, well, there's

[24:52] a partnership with a developer and there's going to be a lot

[24:55] of opportunity for also partnering with the state on

[24:58] this project. So you

[25:01] need to have that language.

[25:02] I was going to say. Forget for getting grants.

[25:05] public language for very public purpose.

[25:09] And it needs to be pretty.

[25:13] There you go. I mean, simply stated.

[25:15] All right. Thumbs up, right?

[25:17] Yeah. Complete the wastewater treatment facility final

[25:19] design process in preparation for a successful 2029

[25:22] groundbreaking.

[25:23] if sufficient funding is not secured, potentially phase the

[25:26] project to align construction with available resources.

[25:32] Thumbs up.

[25:33] Mhm.

[25:34] Okay.

[25:35] Um, complete the public safety facility project, transition

[25:38] City Hall and police department to new facility.

[25:43] Okay.

[25:44] Um,

[25:46] Last one.

[25:47] Facilitate the relocation of the current public works yard waste

[25:50] site to the wastewater treatment facility site in coordination

[25:53] with the future wastewater treatment facility expansion

[25:55] project, thereby improving site safety and reducing risks.

[26:01] How much did we say that might cost? Did somebody put a number

[26:04] on that?

[26:05] We don't know.

[26:06] investment.

[26:06] Okay.

[26:07] But it can be dovetailed in with the the

[26:12] We're hoping so.

[26:13] the construction costs for the the wastewater treatment

[26:15] facility too potentially.

[26:18] So, they will need to, uh, what we believe, the contractor

[26:22] for the wastewater treatment facility will need to

[26:25] construct a road to mobilize equipment.

[26:28] And so what we're hoping is that this could align with that,

[26:33] join forces, save money.

[26:35] So,

[26:36] Yeah.

[26:38] They would just Qatar that that spot to over there.

[26:43] At the old wastewater treatment or at the old public at the

[26:46] public works building.

[26:47] several years ago, like

[26:48] Oh, for the current compost?

[26:49] 10 years ago now?

[26:50] The 10 years.

[26:51] Yeah.

[26:52] It's been a while.

[26:56] All right, so,

[26:57] thumbs up on that one then.

[26:59] Okay.

[27:00] Then we move on to the staff recommendations.

[27:03] Consider adding

[27:04] develop and implement comprehensive cybersecurity

[27:08] policies and a business continuity plan to protect

[27:11] city operations, data, and essential

[27:18] Thumbs up, thumbs down.

[27:22] So this is basically above and beyond what your normal you'd

[27:26] be doing.

[27:28] This will be taking a lot of time.

[27:30] It's mostly spending time.

[27:33] Uh, but the LMC is working with us on this, and and that, um,

[27:38] is not a cost where there I mean, it's a service that they

[27:41] provide us.

[27:42] But it is a plan that we certainly need to create and

[27:46] execute.

[27:47] We don't have a policy around this right now.

[27:49] Okay, thumbs up then for me.

[27:52] Okay.

[27:54] As long as we get three of them.

[27:55] Update the emergency operations policies and standard operating

[27:58] procedures.

[28:02] Thumbs up.

[28:04] Update the city's emergency response plan for utility

[28:07] operations.

[28:08] Okay.

[28:09] Yeah.

[28:12] Advance the city's permitting operations by transitioning

[28:15] all building permit applications and review processes to an

[28:18] online platform, enhancing service delivery and

[28:21] operational efficiency.

[28:24] What do you do if you, what do you do if grandma comes in and

[28:27] she is not

[28:28] No, it's still be we're never going to get rid of paper

[28:31] applications.

[28:32] Yeah.

[28:33] Okay, because I thought that says.

[28:34] Yeah.

[28:35] No.

[28:36] Uh, grandma's not going to be able to do if you talk to her.

[28:38] It does say all building permit.

[28:40] I think it's

[28:41] It does say all.

[28:42] where your what we were originally starting was just the over the

[28:45] counter permits is what we were going to hope to go online, but

[28:49] this would be you could do uh, brand new residential or a

[28:53] brand new commercial, that's what we mean by all building

[28:55] type.

[28:57] Yeah.

[28:57] All permit type. Just all type.

[29:00] All type.

[29:01] Yep.

[29:01] So it's not confusing.

[29:04] All permit type.

[29:05] equip 100% of the city workforce with the training

[29:08] tools and technical competencies required to

[29:10] confidently and effectively navigate modern municipal

[29:13] software, hardware platforms.

[29:15] Ooh, they're going to teach him the computer?

[29:18] That would mean continue on the trainings that we've been

[29:20] that we have started.

[29:23] So that, yes, we all know how to use the computer.

[29:26] Okay. So, is there a

[29:29] There's a call for.

[29:31] Um,

[29:34] What what's the matrix of the accomplishment then there?

[29:39] Well, we're not writing sticky notes and hanging them on.

[29:42] But is it

[29:45] Is there a usage? I mean, is it 100% integration into public

[29:51] works?

[29:54] Was that?

[29:56] It would be like, so currently we have um, technology that

[30:00] for you see uh

[30:04] somebody were to see a sign

[30:06] or a tree down, they could actually be Public Works could have their laptop

[30:12] out in the field, do a service order and it's all tracked.

[30:17] But so is the, you know, so when we look back at this,

[30:22] is it that this is being implemented to 90% or 100%?

[30:27] Yes. You're never going to get 100%.

[30:31] Because it would be U5 too.

[30:33] So you're never going to get

[30:34] [laughter] Thanks. Thanks.

[30:38] I mean, Ken did kill his computer here.

[30:41] Yes. Yes.

[30:43] It's said update. I don't know.

[30:45] 90% would be Yeah, unrealistic.

[30:47] But they're everything on there, we have to have some kind of qualifier

[30:52] that, you know, so anything when I hear continued to

[30:56] I I needed to know, okay, but what at the end of continued?

[30:59] Well, you're going to always continue to do this because you always have

[31:01] new staff.

[31:02] Well, let's keep comments on us.

[31:04] So I would say 90% is your goal. You would want at least 90% to be

[31:10] able to

[31:11] Well, I'm okay with that if we do something like that.

[31:14] Or even, you know, maybe you go 85, but I would think 90.

[31:17] Whatever percentage you think is obtainable.

[31:20] Okay. So they put equip 90 to 100%.

[31:23] Yeah, you got to leave a sweet of life in there for somebody like me.

[31:25] Another equip and the the whole workforce, but 90% compliance

[31:30] or usage.

[31:31] Because not everybody's going to get it.

[31:35] Okay. Well, if it's a requirement of the job, they would they they do.

[31:39] I mean, it doesn't have to be that fuzzy.

[31:43] Complete a water, sewer, rain study.

[31:45] And that's basically to tell us if we're in line with other communities.

[31:51] What we're charging? No, not with other communities, that's based on

[31:56] what it costs um, for to process clean or process the wastewater,

[32:02] as well as maintain our water treatment if we're charging the correct fee

[32:09] schedule.

[32:10] Not comparing us to anybody else, just based on what our costs are

[32:14] is our fees actually truly correct.

[32:18] You should compare to other people. That's where you get beat up.

[32:21] I know. Is that going to balance itself out?

[32:23] Like uh, actually we're going to pay off the this wastewater treatment

[32:28] plant.

[32:29] I mean, what whatever number they give us, is it all going to zero out so

[32:35] that we're actually recovering all the expenses?

[32:36] That's what the goal is that you're covering for your um, depreciation

[32:43] on the equipment for replacement costs, your bond payment for the expansion

[32:48] is what the goal is and still maintaining a positive cash flow.

[32:53] What does it cost to do a study like that, you know?

[32:56] 25 to 50,000.

[32:59] That could be a one.

[33:01] We were recommended, it was recommended, it was recommended, right? That about a year after the

[33:07] new meters were installed and and active that that this is something

[33:12] the council should consider.

[33:16] You mean a one in terms of cost or you mean a one in terms of, okay.

[33:20] for priority level. There you go.

[33:22] Or priority level, right?

[33:24] Do we set that one on the side for a little bit?

[33:27] Sure. I will. I will.

[33:29] Sideways?

[33:31] [laughter] Sideways.

[33:34] We need to be able to know eventually if what

[33:38] is being charged is what's going to cover the need

[33:43] or the correct. Yes.

[33:48] which I think is important.

[33:52] Is it a depreciated value of the equipment set aside?

[33:55] Um, no, it has not been.

[33:57] So you're depreciating the value of a piece of equipment, but you don't

[34:02] put that money anywhere to replace that equipment.

[34:03] So you're depreciating that using that mathematical equation,

[34:06] but you're not actually saving it on the side to replace that piece of

[34:10] equipment.

[34:11] Correct. We're talking about specifically wastewater or water

[34:15] treatment.

[34:16] Right. Because those are the only two that actually truly do depreciation.

[34:23] I mean, we split it saying here's what it should be,

[34:26] but no, we do not have 58 million sitting in your wastewater treatment

[34:31] plant to

[34:32] That's the goal is that

[34:34] That's a tough one because you set your you you set your rates on depreciation

[34:38] value.

[34:39] No, we don't, we don't include that.

[34:41] It's figured in there, right? Somewhere.

[34:43] It's in the expense that, but then when we're actually calculating, we

[34:50] take out depreciation because that's not a cash item.

[34:54] But the goal is that you would like to at least have some money to replace

[35:00] the small equipment.

[35:01] There's no way you're going to have 58 million sitting in the cap in your

[35:05] bank.

[35:06] replace uh wastewater treatment plant

[35:12] Okay, we'll set that one side.

[35:15] Um, complete what

[35:17] complete water system hydraulic modeling.

[35:21] I I would like to say that this bullet as well as the bullet

[35:27] underneath, now Dan, let me know if I'm missing something.

[35:28] Um, but this is how I understand it.

[35:30] So in your draft, uh, something that made it was

[35:34] a comprehensive analysis of the Parks, Trails, Lakes system.

[35:40] That is basically the same thing for utilities.

[35:44] What is the water system hydraulic modeling and sewer system modeling?

[35:48] It's doing a comprehensive analysis of our utilities.

[35:52] And this is that

[35:55] Yeah, that came. Yep, absolutely.

[35:58] Mhm.

[36:00] He grew up too much caffeine in her system.

[36:02] [inaudible]

[36:06] There's multiple levels to modeling that you go to say

[36:10] just fire flows, and then future potential growth.

[36:15] And this it's not just, okay, here it's not just, okay, here it's not just uh oh, $30,000 gives us done.

[36:22] It's anywhere, it's all over the board, depends on what we really want.

[36:26] Dan, put it by your mouth.

[36:29] I don't know.

[36:32] Um, so what do we get out of that then?

[36:34] It's protecting the city first,

[36:37] we want to get caught with their pants down.

[36:39] You know, oh, we should have did this before, you know.

[36:41] So if you don't do something, put 100 houses over here and we don't have water.

[36:44] Right.

[36:45] If you do something like this, you do, you get what happened at the

[36:47] grain elevator where you couldn't flush the toilet or run your faucet

[36:51] at my house because they didn't know that they didn't loop it.

[36:55] So when we hit that at the fire department, there was no water

[36:57] on that side of town because we stole it all.

[37:00] And then when we had the fire out here, we did, we took every ounce

[37:03] you couldn't, you couldn't get your plunger to stay up in your in your

[37:06] sink because there was no water on that side of town because it wasn't

[37:09] looped. So that after that, some of our fires we had issues with,

[37:12] that's when they started to come back and really push in the looping of the system.

[37:16] So what Dan's doing is trying to find out where we have the flaw before we have another one of these.

[37:21] Yeah.

[37:22] For that Acuraf fire outside of town, we had the same deal, we

[37:25] were plugged into a hydrant that created problems because it wasn't

[37:30] being fed by enough places.

[37:32] So,

[37:33] That's what I is that what you're trying to going after, Dan?

[37:36] It's it's a safety deal because your fire department at least you can tell them, hey, this is a dead end.

[37:42] This has bad flow.

[37:44] You know, because then they'll know if they have to relay pump if they'll haul water or what.

[37:48] So, that's what I would take it as for the safety side.

[37:51] It's also the same on the sewer side of things because the pipes under the ground can only take so much waste water through them.

[37:58] You got 8-inch pipes, you get 12-inch pipes, you get 12-inch pipes, 16-inch pipes, they can only take so much water.

[38:03] So are you saying that you you you complete these modelings and then

[38:07] there's a whole bunch of work to fix because we've discovered some issues?

[38:13] No, it just as we develop and grow, it's a this is to say hey, okay, we do

[38:19] uh, there's an interceptor line, I know it doesn't make any sense to

[38:22] you, but there's a large pipe that goes down 43 by port 3 and over

[38:26] to our main lift station.

[38:28] Well, back in 2004, this is I'm speaking just wastewater, there

[38:33] was one pointed out that was put by your club not far from you, and

[38:38] go through the fields there and over to the main lift station and

[38:42] then on the east side of town, it would take all the stress off the

[38:46] existing sewer system that is currently in place.

[38:49] So as we develop, it's not adding all this water through the pipes that have been underground since 1980.

[38:55] I think it's I think it's important to I mean, there's there's a lot

[38:59] of things that are in play here, there's public safety, there's

[39:02] future planning, there's uh, maintenance which can uh, save

[39:06] greatly down the road.

[39:09] There's a lot of reasons to um, to have this information.

[39:14] I agree.

[39:15] Thumbs up.

[39:17] It's our responsibility to take care of that stuff.

[39:22] Um, how about update programmable, well, did we have three up three thumbs up on that?

[39:27] Um, update programmable logic controllers at the water and waste water plants.

[39:34] We've been slowly working on this, I mean this last cyber security

[39:38] thing kind of opened our eyes up that we maybe we should go a little quicker on this.

[39:44] Um, the wastewater one we're obviously going to try to do with

[39:47] the project, but we've been working on doing like the towers, the lift

[39:50] stations and the wells, which it gives us prior parts when we get

[39:54] to the water plant.

[39:56] But um, yeah, there's they don't even make this stuff that we have, they don't even make anymore.

[40:01] It's just

[40:06] Not only do they not make them, you can't update them because they

[40:09] don't support them anymore.

[40:10] This is like routine maintenance.

[40:12] Yeah. Okay.

[40:12] So, with that being said, is it

[40:15] it doesn't belong here if it's routine maintenance?

[40:19] It's not it's not a requirement. That's why I wanted it on here because it's

[40:23] not required by the state. I don't understand why it's not, but it's not.

[40:26] They just pay for people. But it's required by your common sense.

[40:29] Exactly.

[40:30] It's recommend it's recommended the other things are going.

[40:34] And we have it built into the budget.

[40:35] And we've got, we try to build it into the budget.

[40:37] and it's operational.

[40:40] So. So.

[40:43] I would say continue on with it, but I would say continue on with it, but I don't know if it fits in the strategic

[40:47] plan necessarily.

[40:49] As long as we hear that and so keep doing it.

[40:53] Yep.

[40:54] Well, let me just break in if I might here because this is a concern mine

[40:58] from the last meeting.

[40:59] is the strategic plan is isn't developed to

[41:05] alleviate staff of making good choices.

[41:10] So, I mean, something major comes up and they don't deal with it

[41:16] and they say, well, it wasn't on your strategic plan. We're following that.

[41:19] Well, that's bullshit.

[41:20] Okay.

[41:21] And let's just get out there that that's not what we're here for.

[41:24] We still have maintenance to do. We still do these things.

[41:28] It's just, um, you know,

[41:31] and it's not for us to take it as to why are you doing that because it's

[41:38] not on the street. Well, because it's our job.

[41:40] So, let's try to keep the common sense going here.

[41:42] And not

[41:44] get uh, you know, this isn't a uh, uh, dividing.

[41:47] This is the whole thing is to get the council and the staff working

[41:51] very integrated as a team on the on the right things.

[41:55] Not to divide a line and alleviate anybody of responsibility.

[42:00] All right, I'm off my soapbox.

[42:02] We can go on now.

[42:03] Please.

[42:04] I was going to say, a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about, it it

[42:09] deals specifically with utility capacity, which is a part of infrastructure.

[42:13] And honestly, I mean, we need to, I mean, that is the strategic plan

[42:18] item to make sure that our utility capacity is in line with how we're growing.

[42:23] All right.

[42:24] And whatever Dan does, uh, you know,

[42:27] and like you said, it doesn't necessarily that's not a top line item, but it's just a

[42:33] a series of steps that he will take to make sure that we have proper

[42:38] utility capacity, I mean, as as we're growing and what we need.

[42:44] That makes sense.

[42:45] He's smart. Smart girl.

[42:48] I hear you.

[42:50] Let's move on to complete water tower number three rehabilitation and begin

[42:55] water tower number two rehabilitation.

[42:57] And this is already in process, is it not?

[43:00] We're already funding.

[43:01] And we're already budgeting for it.

[43:02] Sounds good.

[43:04] Okay.

[43:04] Right.

[43:06] Okay.

[43:08] Design onsite fueling at the Public Works facility.

[43:11] Hmm.

[43:13] [throat clearing]

[43:14] wonder where that came from two years ago.

[43:16] [inaudible]

[43:17] Well, we had, this is a this is a huge one.

[43:19] We just ate a we just ate a hell a lot of curl on this one.

[43:22] They're talking diesel fuel's going to go to eight might go to $8 a gallon

[43:26] and we could have bought at $4 a gallon.

[43:28] This costs the taxpayers a lot of money.

[43:31] This was a big and I've been after this for a couple years.

[43:35] This one kind of this one kind of fries me. This is a this is kind of a little

[43:38] hot topic for me, because this should have been dealt with and we could have

[43:43] saved the heck of a lot of money.

[43:44] Just like you pre-buy propane, we could have pre-bought our diesel fuel from

[43:47] diesel dogs or somebody.

[43:49] for $4 a gallon.

[43:51] Figure that out on a thousand gallons if it goes up to $8.

[43:55] Mhm.

[43:56] I don't know all the details that it goes into doing this, but I know that

[44:03] Norm has it on radar and working on it. So

[44:04] But it got nipped the first time and by the by the state fire marshall and didn't

[44:09] follow up.

[44:10] to make adjustments and adapt to get it done.

[44:13] So it doesn't have to be an above ground tank.

[44:17] Um, Zimmerman has below ground tanks.

[44:20] for their for the Sherman County behind their I do believe it's behind their new

[44:26] building, their new fire station.

[44:27] So I talked to a couple guys at work and they're in with the one guy's way for for

[44:33] And they went to underground because of the plastic tanks.

[44:36] You don't have to deal with the a very plastic tank though.

[44:40] So, remind me,

[44:42] This is something he's working on, right?

[44:44] He's supposedly working on it?

[44:47] Well, he yeah, so he got into he designed it and then the

[44:51] fire marshal at the state didn't care for his design.

[44:55] Um, since then, he has not had the time to commit to it.

[45:00] And so there's been some issues with with with that with capacity of the ability

[45:06] to move forward with the project.

[45:07] However now with the potential for the yard waste site to move too,

[45:12] that could open up more opportunity like Council member

[45:16] Steve just said.

[45:18] [laughter] What do you think if I was to talk to Hannibal this today?

[45:21] [laughter] Today, actually. And I didn't know it was, I was like, oh,

[45:24] Why does he got five years to get it done?

[45:26] Yeah, why is he put this on, you know,

[45:29] where, where does it go on his priority list then?

[45:31] Well, yeah, I mean, it is above and beyond the everyday work that he's doing.

[45:34] So that's again bringing that up is

[45:36] [crowd]

[45:38] I do. Yeah. Okay.

[45:40] Um, lobby, network, legislative, state, federal, emphases on

[45:45] wastewater treatment facility funding and local zoning authority.

[45:51] We added local zoning authority.

[45:53] You had this in your draft.

[45:54] [chatter] So, yep. Mhm.

[45:56] Sounds good.

[45:57] I mean, we're still fighting that, you know, issue as it comes back

[46:01] to slap everybody in the face.

[46:05] Okay.

[46:06] Support implementation of the five-year pavement management plan

[46:10] to maintain acceptable street surface condition

[46:12] while extending pavement life cycle.

[46:14] Yeah. [chatter]

[46:16] doing it already.

[46:17] Lane, that big thumbs down.

[46:19] So, Kensa thumbs down because we're already doing it.

[46:23] Well, really, pretty much from here to the end is the stuff

[46:27] that we hear every council me,

[46:30] I mean, Lane does a great job on that stuff, so.

[46:31] your five-year at the workshop, I think.

[46:35] So, leave it, leave it off.

[46:37] [crowd]

[46:39] Just keep, keep, keep, uh, keep calm and press on, Lane?

[46:42] Pursue funding opportunities for infrastructure improvements,

[46:46] providing safety and connectivity improvements, which connect

[46:48] neighborhood schools, commercial areas, parks,

[46:51] lighting, crosswalks, sidewalks, trails, etc.

[46:54] Again, I think we do this continuously.

[46:58] Same thing.

[46:59] Improve GIS and mapping database to improve staff efficiency.

[47:05] I don't know about that one.

[47:07] This I can tell you is a special project going on right now.

[47:12] Um, we need to update all of our GIS and mapping and there's been work

[47:16] being put into it currently,

[47:18] but it needs to be completed within this five-year plan.

[47:21] I would say towards the beginning.

[47:23] Thumbs up.

[47:25] All right.

[47:26] Update private development standards for City of Big Lake 2013.

[47:29] Absolutely, current public works and engineering needs.

[47:33] [chatter] Yes.

[47:35] I don't even know what that is.

[47:36] But okay.

[47:37] [chatter] Absolutely.

[47:39] That would be a project.

[47:40] Yes. Yes.

[47:42] Who's who's uh who's wheelhouse?

[47:44] Lane. Mhm.

[47:46] That's why. Sorry. Lane?

[47:48] What does that mean, private development, update private development standards?

[47:52] Okay.

[47:53] So it's so it's if give me an example.

[47:56] It is a thick book of this thick,

[48:00] okay, and it's made up of specification details

[48:03] and everything from procedure in there.

[48:06] Yeah, we're for uh doing.

[48:08] So our code revision on the engineering side.

[48:10] Okay.

[48:11] And then those two at the end of the day have to talk to each other.

[48:15] All right.

[48:16] Thumbs up. It's three course done that's

[48:19] How about work with Min not to minimize access restrictions to US 10

[48:23] and Minnesota 25 during upcoming construction projects?

[48:29] Aren't you going to be involved? Yeah, I think.

[48:31] Well, but this is

[48:32] This has gone beyond me now.

[48:34] This is one is this this does this have to do with what we sat in

[48:37] with Mindot?

[48:39] So it's basically fighting Mindot and making sure that our wishes

[48:41] are known.

[48:45] Because they want to, they want to tend that their design would make it

[48:49] difficult if you're going

[48:52] coming west to get to a business on the other side or vice versa.

[48:59] We don't want that.

[49:00] [chatter] a strategic plan to say, hey, we want to work with you.

[49:05] They want to put J turns at, they want to put J turns in

[49:07] and shut some of the entrances off.

[49:09] Yeah.

[49:10] I said, that's exactly what they did to highway 52.

[49:12] I said that at the meeting.

[49:14] I I see it when I try running.

[49:15] So they want to put a J turn in, so if there's a semi that has to go

[49:18] coming west, needs to go to the south side, it's got to make a U-turn.

[49:22] a semi.

[49:25] Every day, all day. Highway 62, Highway Highway 61, Highway 52.

[49:31] And then you're going into the sun.

[49:33] And you're going to come up on a semi that has to go from zero to.

[49:37] Should be happy that I can put a fairly buffer.

[49:38] Over off of 212, there's one on a dang hill.

[49:41] Right at the bottom of the hill.

[49:42] when you say this is out of behind you, what what does that mean?

[49:46] Does that mean we're bring people in, we have to hire additional?

[49:51] We're bringing a chicken to a dog fight or what are we doing?

[49:53] What are we, what are we doing?

[49:55] Leadership needs to combine with with the township

[49:59] and speak in one voice.

[50:02] And getting state state representatives and state senators.

[50:06] that's very important. This is a high priority.

[50:09] Yeah.

[50:10] what those businesses, I mean,

[50:12] And I think it's going to be dangerous on that stretch of road.

[50:16] They put them, I mean, they put them in everywhere. You're

[50:18] I I you guys could fight this one, but I'm telling you there's been big communities that fight them and they just

[50:25] The fight with this one is they want to do three quarter of the turns.

[50:29] They do not want to allow if you're going westbound,

[50:33] there will be no turn. So.

[50:36] You have to go down, do a U and come back and then go in.

[50:39] They're going to allow for going to Eastbound towards Open River,

[50:43] you can turn and go north and go into 100 industrial

[50:46] Boulevard and 172nd. You can make those turns.

[50:50] But you cannot go across if you're going towards

[50:54] Elk River. So they're going to allow from the east.

[50:56] So they're they're calling them three quarter J turns.

[50:59] Instead of giving us the full J turns.

[51:03] going both ways.

[51:04] Right. So you can turn and go north and south rather than

[51:07] always having to do the U.

[51:09] What a bunch of baloney. Three quarter.

[51:11] Okay. So, okay. Um, let's move on to um, ensure new

[51:16] developments provide public infrastructure which does not

[51:19] provide undue cost for operations and maintenance.

[51:25] This means supporting that we do uh, that we design make sure

[51:30] that developers design projects that uh don't impact public works

[51:36] operations and maintenance essentially.

[51:38] In other words, developers there's different engineers

[51:40] they come in with different designs and from their professional

[51:44] expertise and experience they'll say it's fine.

[51:47] And I'll argue with them and we'll butt heads.

[51:50] And I what I what this is saying that you support

[51:54] uh my position, Dan, and Norm's position to

[51:59] but heads with them and say no, give us what we need so we can

[52:03] operate the city more efficiency.

[52:06] with more efficiency and effectiveness.

[52:13] Um, I agree that needs to be done.

[52:15] Again is that is that something that's on with side plans and

[52:19] general operations and smel. I hear your voice, your opinion's

[52:24] quite often on this for the protection of the city.

[52:28] So and planning and zoning, we need to get engineer comments.

[52:39] Yeah. You guys saying you guys saying you need more about that.

[52:44] I I There again, it's one of those, yes, absolutely

[52:47] necessary, but not specifically in the strategic plan.

[52:51] What do you need from us to say, yes, we support that.

[52:55] Uh, well, if it's not in this, then if it comes up or if you

[52:57] get a phone call from a developer because they will go around us

[53:00] and make phone calls. They've done it in the past, they'll continue

[53:04] to do it in the future and they'll have their story and need to

[53:09] make sure that we're all on the same page. We're doing what we

[53:13] need to so that uh so there isn't something special or unique out

[53:17] there that maybe impacts no play because once we get nine inches

[53:21] of snow and everything is white and there's something that's built

[53:24] different than anywhere else in the city, uh, you could hit something

[53:29] and the weight came back, go back into the truck and we're done

[53:32] for the year with that truck. We may have a 100,000 repair.

[53:43] doesn't sound like it's a strategic plan thing.

[53:47] It's a policy. Policy.

[53:50] Policy, yeah, it's

[53:52] Agreed. Like I said, I still think you have your submitting

[53:57] their engineer comments on what what should be done when it comes

[54:01] to planning and zoning and

[54:07] It does it has to be written somewhere that they'll be able

[54:11] to see it, read it and say, this is the way it is.

[54:15] Well, what happens is they come up with something that's not on

[54:19] our radar, something that's unique. And something that we

[54:22] don't want, that we don't want to support. For example,

[54:26] Inside drops on the sanitary man hole.

[54:29] We in six years ago, we allowed a second one in a man hole said

[54:33] a development put in place.

[54:37] And now we have, I mean,

[54:39] Do you like going to the man hole where by North star? Is the guy

[54:43] dealing with it, we can damage it because when the holes goes

[54:45] down with our our jetting equipment, the holes moves

[54:49] around and there's two inside drops and what used to have a

[54:51] man hole 48 48 inches in diameter, now is very small.

[54:55] So, that's that's where the problem comes. Some you need

[54:57] who to thought that they'd come in with requesting that.

[55:00] I think we understand the problem, we understand it.

[55:04] This is a question of

[55:06] Yeah, I like I say, I don't think it belongs in the strategic plan.

[55:09] I think we get that information organically as we go.

[55:13] we understand, we're going to side with you.

[55:16] Yeah. 100% of the time probably.

[55:18] based on what you just told us.

[55:20] 100% probably.

[55:21] Well, we're never going to I'm not going to guarantee anything.

[55:25] Well, and and you're not going to get that.

[55:26] This isn't a strategic plan. I don't think progressive developers

[55:30] coming to reach out to us.

[55:33] As well as what you just described, you can say, hey, this is a

[55:37] a new idea, and I don't think it's good because of such and such and such.

[55:42] And then you're a little smarter than us to amend those issues.

[55:46] And we're going to say okay, we'll listen to you.

[55:49] I think you gave you credit there.

[55:51] Back door wise, but

[55:52] Just a little I said.

[55:54] It was kind of a compliment, kind of a kick to the teeth.

[55:57] You got it. I don't.

[55:59] Examine all public street and utility projects for cost savings measures

[56:03] applicable to construction.

[56:05] And its operation.

[56:06] Again, I think you're doing an amazing job on this on a weekly basis.

[56:11] Continue proactive and time relevant communication with residents and

[56:14] public regarding construction projects.

[56:17] That you're doing.

[56:20] Did you just put this on in to get the ad void or what?

[56:22] Recognize the financial impacts of preserving existing infrastructure,

[56:26] participating in state and county projects and expanding

[56:28] infrastructure due to growth.

[56:33] You do a great job.

[56:36] So comments right now then.

[56:40] Yeah, Lane can't go to any more of these meetings.

[56:41] He sucks up at the end.

[56:43] I didn't put it in.

[56:46] But I did give her a top ten.

[56:49] Good golly.

[56:50] So I've got one one thing I wanted to bring.

[56:59] Um, the

[57:02] just the the um, back to the money, um, and taxes and so on.

[57:11] I don't know if it belongs on the strategic plan.

[57:15] But probably not.

[57:18] But I'd like to see like our net tax, our city tax rate,

[57:22] which is going to be 43% this year.

[57:25] It was 38 like last year or two years ago.

[57:30] It has gone up because of the, which we've seen because of the

[57:33] new building, um, and LGA

[57:38] that is being cut by our wonderful state government.

[57:43] Um, but it's it

[57:47] we I just want to I want us to keep that in mind and have it as a goal.

[57:51] Because I'm a believer that if you if you aim at nothing,

[57:53] you will hit it every time.

[57:56] So I think we need to keep that in mind that we don't want that to get too high.

[58:01] And it and and it's arbitrary right now, but I mean if we

[58:04] keep it at like 50% or it's going to be higher than it was.

[58:08] Because of paying for the building, which I maintain and I think anybody

[58:12] that is educated on what this building is like, would agree that

[58:17] we're doing a good thing by replacing this building.

[58:23] Um, and the police station.

[58:26] So it's going to go up for a time, probably maybe even a couple decades,

[58:30] it might be a little higher than but and eventually probably will

[58:33] come back down in my opinion, maybe into the 30s again.

[58:37] But I just think it's a good thing to have a target that says

[58:43] we're not going to let it get up in that 60, 65,

[58:46] or we're going to work to keep it I would say around that 50% mark.

[58:53] So I like I said, I don't I don't know if that belongs in a strategic plan.

[59:00] It's unrealistic because you don't know what's going to happen.

[59:02] You're putting something in there that's not a realistic number

[59:04] because you don't know what's going to happen.

[59:06] Nobody knew we're going to vote $48 million on a waste water treatment.

[59:09] Nobody knew we're going to waste $33 million on a public public safety building.

[59:14] Yeah, it's 4.4 million of it's wasted.

[59:18] No, that's not true.

[59:20] You want to have that conversation?

[59:22] You borrow $1.6 million extra for your first payment in 2027

[59:26] And if you use Deb's financial number at the interest, it creates $800,000 worth of interest that we got to pay.

[59:33] So that's 2.4 right there.

[59:36] And because the EDA went through the EDA, we have to pay a higher interest rate

[59:39] per Deb's statement, that cost us $2 million in interest.

[59:44] So that's $4.4 million on a project.

[59:47] That using, and I'm not picking on Deb, I'm not picking on Deb, but those are words out of our financial person's mouth.

[59:53] Not anybody else. I didn't make them up.

[59:54] That was prior to the bonding.

[59:56] In in reality, we got a a very good deal on our sales.

[1:00:01] We're still paying more because we're the EDA.

[1:00:04] same rate as if we were to lose the other five.

[1:00:06] Yes, yes, it was like unbelievable.

[1:00:08] You never said that. So that's the point. Tammy told us.

[1:00:10] I know for the numbers we had beforehand, yes.

[1:00:13] But the night of the sale.

[1:00:15] always turns into worst case scenarios.

[1:00:16] However, But we still brought 1.6 extra million dollars for

[1:00:20] the first payment in 2026. 2027, sorry.

[1:00:23] Correct. In 20, correct because we we

[1:00:25] And then the interest of that at the number you originally gave

[1:00:28] create $800,000 of interest after 20 years. Anyway.

[1:00:31] But that was 2.4.

[1:00:33] What was you

[1:00:34] Well, using

[1:00:36] It's just a it's hard to it's hard to put say 50% is you're

[1:00:39] in there because you don't know what's coming up.

[1:00:43] You know, it's kind of like putting and I I apologize,

[1:00:46] my boss called me, so that's why I had to step out.

[1:00:48] The the freeze on borrowing except for the waste water treatment.

[1:00:52] It's that's tough because when you put things like that in

[1:00:56] there, I think it's tough because

[1:00:59] what was that two years ago?

[1:01:01] when we had that goofy winter where everything went to

[1:01:04] Everything went bad in the roads because of the temperatures and

[1:01:07] all that and we had extra roads to do.

[1:01:10] So you're never going to borrow for for for that. It's tough because

[1:01:14] if you get a bad winter, you're on the hook, either you fix it

[1:01:18] or you you drive on crappy roads.

[1:01:21] It was three I think three years ago where we just killed Lane

[1:01:25] with fiber.

[1:01:27] Lane almost got killed with bad roads.

[1:01:29] That's because of the low interest.

[1:01:30] Yeah, they're totally low interest rates, but yeah.

[1:01:33] So that was the freeze.

[1:01:35] That's

[1:01:36] So,

[1:01:37] So could that be could that be put in the finance policy since

[1:01:41] we're reviewing that anyway that way we'll actually be looking at

[1:01:44] the numbers and we could have a something in the financial

[1:01:47] policy because

[1:01:49] there again like Ken, I'm not pulling numbers out of the air

[1:01:53] saying 40, 50, 60%. I don't know.

[1:01:56] But through that exercise at least we'll be able to look at

[1:02:00] anticipated numbers, come up with a real realistic assumption, but

[1:02:05] if it's in the financial policy then it's reviewed every year also.

[1:02:09] So if we do see a bad year roads

[1:02:13] something something that's coming up then we can address it

[1:02:16] then with that.

[1:02:18] That works for me and it to me it just makes sense.

[1:02:21] When, I mean, yes, our our residents here, of course, we

[1:02:25] all know this. I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

[1:02:28] But yes, they want a well run community, but they also want

[1:02:31] taxes that are which we do try to make them really, uh, you

[1:02:36] know, as low as as we can.

[1:02:39] But I think if you keep it in mind, it's just it's going to be

[1:02:43] better.

[1:02:45] If you have a goal.

[1:02:46] I like what Ken said there and then what you had started your

[1:02:49] conversation off with, if you aim at nothing, you'll hit it

[1:02:52] every time.

[1:02:54] So, I think it's good to have goals.

[1:02:56] What is

[1:02:56] And the credit goes to Deb on that.

[1:02:59] I just said that by the way.

[1:03:01] But

[1:03:02] Oh, no.

[1:03:04] no, I I thought you were Sorry, I thought you were done. Go ahead.

[1:03:08] Ken. Yes, sir.

[1:03:09] So your question. So it says complete comprehensive financial

[1:03:12] analysis and needs of the parks trails, what is that and tail?

[1:03:18] because and I'm asking this this said,

[1:03:19] Yeah, I'll I'll take that one because like um you and your

[1:03:23] diesel tanks I've been talking about this for a couple years.

[1:03:26] is um you know, and you're the one that actually kind of sparked

[1:03:30] the idea when you realized that some point the parks weren't

[1:03:34] being funded in any way and so you threw $100,000 at it.

[1:03:39] Fantastic.

[1:03:40] Um however,

[1:03:43] I'd like to know is that enough?

[1:03:45] Is it going to the right places? What what does our Parks and Trail

[1:03:49] system actually cost to run?

[1:03:51] And and the more we can get us breaking that down the better.

[1:03:54] I mean if one part, you know, and

[1:03:57] it's a difficult exercise, I understand.

[1:04:00] But then you also place that with usage and where the where the

[1:04:03] people's priorities are within our trail system and so you can

[1:04:07] allocate those funds correctly.

[1:04:10] And it's all about proper use of number one, making sure we have

[1:04:14] the money to maintain the great systems that we have, but number

[1:04:17] two that those funds are putting are going towards the ones that

[1:04:21] are being used or wanted out in the community.

[1:04:25] So it's like no it's like any other financial analysis.

[1:04:31] Um like I say, 100 grand is great, but I have no idea if that's

[1:04:35] enough, half of what we need.

[1:04:39] And I I think because we do have a very extensive park system for

[1:04:43] a town our size or a city our size and we have a great trail

[1:04:47] system.

[1:04:50] And that's fantastic and uh but it's it's expensive to maintain

[1:04:53] unless we make sure we're funding that.

[1:04:57] So this is a concept of looking at.

[1:05:01] So I have already. So the

[1:05:04] a system of replacing parks is is

[1:05:08] I'm kind of against right now. No offense.

[1:05:10] We're spending over $900,000 on one park.

[1:05:14] And by the lake between the playground equipment and skate park.

[1:05:19] We're spending 900 grand on a park that people

[1:05:22] are coming to pay to use and people have to pay to park and all that.

[1:05:26] Versus the neighborhood parks where actually the people who

[1:05:29] live in our town generally go to more.

[1:05:33] That's what I have that's why I brought this question up.

[1:05:36] No offense. I've got no offense on anything.

[1:05:38] No, I mean, I was trying to explain my

[1:05:40] I'm just trying to bring it into the financial realm

[1:05:44] to make sure that they're funded correctly,

[1:05:47] funded and funded correctly and the money's going in the same.

[1:05:51] in the correct positions and it's a big expense

[1:05:54] and one that obviously has been overlooked.

[1:05:57] So.

[1:05:58] Yeah, some playground equipment's pretty darn old.

[1:06:00] But for the most part it's in pretty tough shape.

[1:06:03] Okay.

[1:06:04] I just asked because so it's like an internal thing,

[1:06:06] a staff internal thing?

[1:06:08] No.

[1:06:09] That was kind of my question to the conference of five

[1:06:11] was this something we're paying for or is this like a staff?

[1:06:14] No, because there's got to be a lot of assumptions with this

[1:06:16] and you have to realize that going forward.

[1:06:18] Okay, so.

[1:06:19] That that's what I was trying to hear. I'll just have to

[1:06:21] make my own guesses and and go with that,

[1:06:23] but it's a lot better than what we have.

[1:06:24] Okay. Which is nothing. All right, thanks.

[1:06:28] So, the things that are up on the screen right now,

[1:06:31] This is, um, pulled for sure.

[1:06:33] Okay.

[1:06:34] Um, your draft that you guys came up with on September 2nd.

[1:06:38] So it's in addition to what we've already gone through here with the modified language and so on.

[1:06:43] Yep, so some of the language is modified, but then there's other things that are

[1:06:47] like on the one that you're seeing right here, um, we didn't even talk about today.

[1:06:51] Okay.

[1:06:52] Um, but you talked about it on a second.

[1:06:54] But we addressed the

[1:06:57] having a goal of a target on text, right?

[1:07:02] Yeah.

[1:07:03] But didn't we talk about the freeze on borrowing and

[1:07:07] We did not talk about it other than what then can how it's covered.

[1:07:11] Um, I get very nervous when you sit here and arbitrarily put a freeze on something because

[1:07:18] quite honestly, if that need arises, that's going to be unfrozen.

[1:07:22] So basically what we're doing is playing politics when we put a freeze in place.

[1:07:27] I don't know what that means, politics, but

[1:07:29] I think we're putting fancy words into play where in reality,

[1:07:34] we have a very conservative staff council, I mean, we

[1:07:38] we look at every expenditure with a critical eye already.

[1:07:43] I'm thankful for that.

[1:07:44] Yes.

[1:07:46] And so putting a freeze in where we don't know the unknowns and and being realistic,

[1:07:50] if an emergency came up where we had to bond borrow or steal.

[1:07:58] [laughter] We're going to do it.

[1:08:01] And again, this is something that could be we already have it in the finance policy,

[1:08:05] but you could finesse that section that section that talked about what you're willing to even bond for.

[1:08:11] And the level. So I think you could.

[1:08:13] So that would have more teeth if we put it in the financial policy as to at least the

[1:08:17] top five criteria that we bond for.

[1:08:22] Yes. The why do we borrow?

[1:08:23] Yeah, that's what you're saying. Yes.

[1:08:25] And then of course there's always discretionary. We don't know what we don't know,

[1:08:30] but

[1:08:31] um, it's pretty hard to take money out of here as it is.

[1:08:34] So.

[1:08:36] I I I'm okay with that. Are you okay with that?

[1:08:38] With what?

[1:08:39] Putting it into the financial plan?

[1:08:41] Yeah, that's fine.

[1:08:43] This could also go into the category of we're already doing this.

[1:08:47] But you're looking at your financial policy every year anyway.

[1:08:51] And something could change because there is a debt limit in that finance policy

[1:08:54] and something could change where you have to change that.

[1:08:56] And what are the five reasons that we borrow?

[1:08:59] Why are there five?

[1:09:01] No, well, like we do not borrow for huge capital items, like a truck

[1:09:04] or for operational costs. No, it is only for a true long term.

[1:09:11] My point was is that I don't know what I'm on the financial.

[1:09:14] Right.

[1:09:15] And so I doubt anybody else could answer that question. Hence the exercise that we need

[1:09:19] to learn what we're supposed to be governing and that's part of why

[1:09:22] you need to go through these policies.

[1:09:25] It's part it's tough to say the word freeze.

[1:09:27] Because Eagle Creek Road South.

[1:09:31] We get one more bad winter, we drive it on the dirt.

[1:09:34] I think it's going to pop like that thing's going to like cold.

[1:09:37] And if you say freeze, they're just going to tell the taxpayers, well, we're not going to borrow,

[1:09:40] we're just going to sit on it and wait.

[1:09:43] That's not a road. Which road?

[1:09:45] Eagle Creek Road South.

[1:09:46] That thing's crapped.

[1:09:47] I'm waiting on spider walk.

[1:09:48] I would I would definitely drive on the road. But that's another discussion.

[1:09:51] Right.

[1:09:53] [laughter]

[1:09:54] They they might not be happy if they're paying $4,000 a year taxes and driving on a dirt road.

[1:09:59] Yeah.

[1:10:01] So.

[1:10:02] uh

[1:10:03] next one, review and revise the City Council's policies

[1:10:07] with we talked about that one. Yep. Yep. We already modified

[1:10:09] the language there. Complete, uh moving down to number four.

[1:10:12] Complete a comprehensive financial and needs.

[1:10:16] We did that one. Complete a full analysis of every city paid position.

[1:10:20] Full analysis of every city paid position.

[1:10:23] What is that? Justification of employment?

[1:10:26] Would that be kind of, Anna?

[1:10:28] Justification of employment.

[1:10:30] Do we need them?

[1:10:33] Um or the other way.

[1:10:34] I mean it is.

[1:10:36] Yeah, it's it's uh I mean that's uh

[1:10:39] you know, six or seven words that creates a a lot of work.

[1:10:44] But yeah, it is making sure that everybody here is is needed

[1:10:51] and used to their full potential, but also could identify areas

[1:10:55] that we are lacking, when we're start talking about succession

[1:11:00] planning and retirement and things like that and take this in a global view.

[1:11:04] And you have to start with what's here and that's the full analysis

[1:11:08] of like you said. Yeah, it's making sure production is meeting standards.

[1:11:12] Um but are there areas that aren't needed? Are there positions

[1:11:17] that can be combined? Um what does the next five year when

[1:11:23] people start retiring, do we have um succession plans in place uh to

[1:11:25] we won't be disrupting city services or expending

[1:11:30] a lot of money bringing in um crisis management to get

[1:11:34] through that period if we start thinking of that now.

[1:11:39] We can at least uh hope to pull off a uh seamless transition.

[1:11:47] Which is a lot cheaper than crisis management.

[1:11:50] So I like the succession and all that.

[1:11:51] Is this is this uh internal?

[1:11:54] Yes.

[1:11:56] Okay. This is not hiring some organization to come in and

[1:12:00] tell us that we need to hire seven positions.

[1:12:01] We're going to work internally.

[1:12:04] Develop a succession.

[1:12:06] Personnel committee does that.

[1:12:08] They've got.

[1:12:09] [laughter] Yeah. Actually, personnel committee will be involved.

[1:12:11] Good.

[1:12:12] All right, what's the next slide?

[1:12:14] Um well, we can go back here. I do want to address one thing. Minnesota Avenue. Are you guys wanting to put language into your strat plan regarding Minnesota Avenue?

[1:12:22] Uh most definitely.

[1:12:25] Yep. Then I'll highlight that.

[1:12:26] Okay.

[1:12:28] But then going backwards.

[1:12:29] Um how many more slides do we have?

[1:12:32] So it's only five core functions.

[1:12:33] So admin, then we'll jump up to public safety and yep.

[1:12:37] We went through all these?

[1:12:39] On the second, you did. So maybe just review them quickly or.

[1:12:42] Oversee the construction of the public safety facility.

[1:12:46] Oversee the redevelopment of the City Hall old school building site.

[1:12:49] Lobby network legislatively.

[1:12:51] Yep.

[1:12:51] Review and streamline joint powers board agreements. We did not

[1:12:54] talk about that one tonight. No.

[1:12:56] But on the second, said, okay.

[1:12:57] So review and streamline joint.

[1:12:59] I I think that's a good idea.

[1:13:03] Oh, okay.

[1:13:04] Oh, develop a plan for a potential redistricting.

[1:13:09] Okay.

[1:13:10] Okay.

[1:13:13] Promote reduction of emergency response time.

[1:13:16] Where are we like?

[1:13:18] This was Minnesota Ave.

[1:13:19] That's for Minnesota Ave.

[1:13:21] Yeah.

[1:13:25] Yeah.

[1:13:26] Can we?

[1:13:29] No.

[1:13:31] No.

[1:13:32] Okay.

[1:13:33] We got to core function four, which is infrastructure and utilities.

[1:13:38] Are we going to be there?

[1:13:40] Prepare the groundwork for the wastewater treatment facility and design a financially planned for potential relocation of the yard waste site.

[1:13:46] So we talked about that.

[1:13:48] And then the last one, core function land use and development.

[1:13:51] Complete and codify the code revision project.

[1:13:55] We modified the language with that.

[1:13:57] Okay. Yep.

[1:13:58] Internally review and revise the comprehensive plan.

[1:14:02] I guess that's internal.

[1:14:04] Complete a full assessment of all city and owned property

[1:14:07] with a recommendation following.

[1:14:09] Retain, redevelop, hold, sell.

[1:14:12] For that one, can we figure out what we own?

[1:14:15] We're going to do.

[1:14:16] You guys laugh.

[1:14:18] They they I agree with you.

[1:14:20] This is still the discussion on why we're not selling that piece of property.

[1:14:25] I'm laughing because I agree with you.

[1:14:27] Part of the assessment.

[1:14:29] Okay.

[1:14:31] Uh, what's next?

[1:14:32] Is that it?

[1:14:33] I guess next would be

[1:14:35] Is there anything else?

[1:14:37] Happier?

[1:14:38] Five.

[1:14:39] Are there any other things that you guys would like

[1:14:42] to talk about? We're not tonight for me.

[1:14:44] But I guess we leave the discussion open yet for another month.

[1:14:49] We can bring um a new based on today, I think we got good notes. Um we'll take uh another draft back here when Gina and I find time within a workshop.

[1:15:01] Um, and just continue discussion.

[1:15:03] Okay.

[1:15:05] Yeah.

[1:15:06] Does anybody have anything under other?

[1:15:10] Looking for a motion to adjourn,

[1:15:11] that made by Cfield, seconded by Nodding.

[1:15:14] At least he turned it off.

[1:15:15] All the same sign, motion carries.

CC09162026 Workshop

Transcript