[0:00] Good evening and thank you to the city commission um city of Boomfield Hills

[0:04] commission meeting city commission meeting for August 11th 2026. The first

[0:10] item on the agenda is the call is the u on the order is to pledge of allegiance.

[0:17] I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

[0:22] republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[0:28] justice for all. >> Okay. The second agenda item is Chief

[0:33] King will introduce the newest public safety officer. Um, is that right? Is he

[0:38] here or no? >> Uh, he was unable to make him and we

[0:41] just got apologize. >> Okay, that's okay.

[0:44] » We'll do it next time. Okay. All right. Um, okay. The next item

[0:49] on the agenda is the cassette agenda. Does anybody have any questions,

[0:52] comments, concerns?

[0:55] » Yes, I had a couple and, um, Sandra just clarified them. Um,

[1:03] thrilled to hear that her clear gov app or the whole new software is working

[1:07] wonderfully and going to come up to speed because that was the 14,000

[1:11] um, she's using for the budget, which is terrific. But you're happy with that?

[1:17] And I inquired about the Trobridgeidge chip sealed expenses, 187 and another

[1:24] 37. And she just um clarified that uh 69 of of the 77 that we approved the

[1:35] extra money for the Trobridge. So we're we're on track for the uh what was

[1:41] budgeted. Correct, Sandra? >> Yes.

[1:44] » Okay. But there are concerns about future maintenance and there are

[1:48] concerns about how the third layer will hold up to all the construction heavy

[1:56] traffic and I think it's something we need to address.

[1:59] » Okay. So, um

[2:02] » do you want to do >> is that something we talk about now?

[2:07] » You know, do can't do we talk about that now or no? Are we just allowed to

[2:11] » I agree with your point. And I think we need to budget for or would that be

[2:14] another business? >> Probably other business.

[2:18] » We could put on other business. >> Are you asking me? Okay. Um, this is the

[2:23] consent agenda. So, I guess the appropriate action would be to remove it

[2:27] from the consent agenda and put it maybe inserted it as 3E

[2:34] » or or at the end of the meeting whenever you want to put it in there.

[2:37] » Yeah, we'll do it at the end of the meeting. Is that okay? Sure. Is that

[2:40] possible? Okay. Anything else? >> No. Thank you.

[2:45] » Okay, Commissioner Acriman.

[2:49] » Nothing else. >> Nothing.

[2:53] » Um I had just a couple things. Um the um Chief King.

[3:02] So um the Trowbridge Homeowners Chief King, you met with the Trowbridge

[3:06] Homeowners Association to discuss ongoing wildlife. Is that my favorite

[3:09] topic? Coyotes. >> Uh, no, it was deer and grubs.

[3:16] » Okay. Interesting. Okay. Um, and then I'm actually doing this in a public

[3:21] meeting and making this statement and um I'd like you to help with this is um the

[3:30] comment that you have on here about the solicitor who was on Lone Pine at 9:50

[3:35] at night. >> Yes, ma'am. So, um

[3:40] I'm not sure if a lot of people know this, but I think it should be is we do

[3:44] not allow solicitators solicitation unless it's a religious affiliation. If

[3:50] I'm correct, you can tell me. And then also or if they come in and get a

[3:53] permit. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir.

[3:56] » Okay. So, um I just we've run into this. Um there was an instant incident in my

[4:04] neighborhood where two people were there on a Friday night

[4:09] at 6:30 going door todoor selling life insurance.

[4:13] » Oh my god. >> So

[4:14] » I had a door to door as well. >> Did you?

[4:17] » Yes. So, um I I know it it's always good if we get those and I would remind

[4:23] residents, please call the police, just tell them to come and check on them to

[4:29] see if they do have a permit or not. Um when they come to my door, I literally

[4:34] ask them if they have a permit and then I tell them we don't have it. So, I to

[4:38] me going door to door at 9:50 at night um is a little bit too late.

[4:45] Uh in that instance, he was cited for soliciting without permit earlier in the

[4:52] day. >> Uh told to leave. We arranged, we said

[4:56] by and arranged for him to uh be picked up, transported

[5:01] » to a city where he actually had a so he was familiar with.

[5:05] » Okay. So he was familiar with it. >> Uh and then he came back again

[5:08] soliciting later that night and that's when we made a custodial arrest.

[5:12] » Good to know. Okay. Thank you. Um so Jamie the Chesterfield Real um

[5:21] Calbert. >> Yes.

[5:23] » Mid August. Is that a couple weeks away? >> Um they were paid in the base last week

[5:27] and we're doing very well. >> Okay. So payment wise are we

[5:33] » we're under the grand amount. >> We under the grand amount. All right. We

[5:36] did it. Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Uh, if nobody has any other

[5:41] questions, can I have a motion to approve the consent agenda?

[5:44] » Motion to approve. >> Second.

[5:49] » All those in favor? >> I

[5:52] um I'll do that other business later. Okay. Uh, okay. Next item on the agenda.

[6:00] Recognition of citizens in the audience. Individual comments are limited to three

[6:04] minutes per person and it's also not something that is on the agenda. Do we

[6:08] have any citizens in the audience?

[6:13] Okay, with that next one, next agenda item, the the commission will discuss

[6:17] current property maintenance standards.

[6:21] Mayor, if I may, uh, just to start the the discussion is that, uh, at your

[6:27] direction and the commission's direction, we took a a hard look at, uh,

[6:31] the question you raised in July, whether our approach to property maintenance is

[6:34] serve serving this community well or whether we should uh, go further. And

[6:40] uh, I did quite a lengthy study on this. Uh, and I won't get into all that, but I

[6:46] can give you some uh, some high points of it. We we what we essentially did is

[6:50] compared ourselves to Birmingham, Bloomfield Township, West Bloomfield,

[6:54] and the five points. Uh we looked at the everything from building exteriors,

[6:59] roofs, paint, porches, uh site conditions, pools, vehicles, vacant

[7:03] homes, vegetation, and nearly every measure we match or exceed our peers. Uh

[7:10] we have a 7 in vegetation standard uh that's stricter than most of the

[7:14] communities. One was at six inches. Uh but most allow 8 inches. Only Gross

[7:20] Point had hit the stricter at six. We enforce the complete international

[7:23] property maintenance code. Our vacant property ordinance is the strongest we

[7:27] found anywhere in the comparison. And uh we enforce proactively uh with our one

[7:33] code enforcement officer. Uh and uh just to kind of give you an idea what what

[7:38] the concern is in the city is that John uh provided a report to me that he had

[7:43] 22 complaints of property maintenance in 2025 and only 15 so far uh in 2022. So

[7:52] in most probably 95% of the cases John's been able to go through our uh process

[7:58] of just talking to folks and getting a remedy. So we believe that process works

[8:03] pretty well. Um

[8:07] tonight the there's uh right now there's only three properties that have uh out

[8:12] of roughly 1,600 that have o o open enforcement action is less than 210 of

[8:17] 1%. Our vac vacant home inventory is small and most of it consists of homes

[8:21] that are maintained on the market and undergoing redevelopment. One property

[8:25] that required extraordinary measures the vacant home on Pinegate went through the

[8:30] courts and it showed the process has teeth. the property is being brought

[8:34] into compliance and every dollar of that work lands on the on the owner and if

[8:38] unpaid it goes on the tax role. Uh Commissioner Fischer had brought up some

[8:44] good points about other communities, one in particular, Lake Forest. Um Lake

[8:49] Forest is in Illinois and she was right that Lake Forest does have a minimum

[8:53] landscape standard and we reviewed that ordinance directly. It requires two

[8:57] shrubs at least 36 inches in height for every 10 ft of foundation facing the

[9:01] front of the home or the side of the home. That requirement applies only to

[9:05] new buildings. It's one piece of a full design system that they have. And they

[9:09] have uh have a a review board that examines the architecture and site plan

[9:14] of every new home. Uh and a special and they have a they have a special charter

[9:19] in Illinois uh that allows this. um they have more than 19,000 residents and

[9:27] dedicated plan review staff. Uh no, no community in Michigan uh had that sort

[9:31] of approach to new homes um that we could find any uh so and here's a

[9:38] practical reason. I think new homes in Bloomfield Hills are state uh scale

[9:42] projects that routinely installs landscaping worth hundreds of thousands

[9:46] of dollars and every one of them would exceed the lake forest minimum many

[9:49] times over. standard like that would regulate the properties least likely to

[9:53] need it I think uh and leave the ones the uh leave the untouched properties

[9:58] that prompted this question. Um so Mayor uh McCarthy in particular asked a

[10:07] specific question uh it's a fair question is that if a current owner

[10:10] removes shrubs should they be required to replace them? We have several homes,

[10:15] about three homes actually, maybe more, and John can talk to that maybe in a few

[10:19] minutes, but that uh have removed shrubbing in front of their house and it

[10:24] doesn't look great. Doesn't doesn't look uh to the standard of Bloomfield Hills.

[10:28] Um they cut their lawn to our ordinance and uh they trim bushes and sometimes

[10:35] they remove bushes and to the mayor's point, it doesn't look good. uh just

[10:39] doesn't look as uh as well as good as all the other homes in in the city and

[10:44] in particular all the homes that I just talked about that are spending a lot of

[10:48] money uh making their homes beautiful in the city. Uh we did find one gap in our

[10:53] ordinances uh that we could fill in and maybe two gaps. One would be uh we can

[10:59] make sure that anything that's removed from a current property like uh grass or

[11:05] or or or bushes that if it causes any sort of erosion is issue or or dust or

[11:11] dirt, we can make sure that those that property is covered. Um, another thing

[11:17] too is that I think we could take a look at what we did with 36 Pinegate and

[11:22] maybe uh establish some ordinance standards that might add to what we're

[11:30] doing and not just so what with with 32 Pinegate or 36 Pinegate, we had to go to

[11:36] uh we had to bring this case in front of the 48th District Court. We got a court

[11:40] order in action uh where we're the property is under a property management

[11:46] company and uh there's a landscape company right now cleaning everything up

[11:51] and all those costs will eventually go to the homeowner, but we're going to

[11:54] have to pay the bill and we're going to charge the homeowner uh who is a company

[11:58] that does not live in the state, does not live in this country or does that

[12:02] the the company's not in this country is in China. But all we're doing is

[12:07] recovering those costs plus a 15% administrative fee. So we might want to

[12:10] think about making a lot of improvements to that component of the ordinance. But

[12:16] » Mr. Hendrickson, how would we change that? Would we pass a an ordinance in

[12:20] which there's a clear fine and it turn it becomes a lean? Is that what you'd

[12:25] like? >> Yes. Yes. Uh I think there's some

[12:28] probably some good ideas with with some discussion. Our city attorney I've never

[12:32] actually talked to to Mark about this yet,

[12:34] » but I think You do it. >> Yeah.

[12:37] » Clearly you want to lean the property. >> Yes.

[12:41] » I think we could we should make it like Birmingham. Birmingham has a minimum

[12:47] amount of money that they charge just to walk onto the property. If if we can can

[12:52] we change the law so that we don't have to go to court to enforce these things?

[12:56] Can we have penalties and interest? >> There's there's a couple things you can

[13:00] do. Um what you're using now is a municipal civil infraction

[13:05] and uh that's actually a fairly powerful tool. Uh it's what we used on the

[13:11] Pinegate property. Um you're able to uh notify a property owner that there's a

[13:19] violation, there's an issue. Um if they don't take care of it, a ticket is a

[13:23] ticket is issued. Um and then it goes to the the court and if we prevail in court

[13:30] we can enter a judgment in the district court that gives equitable relief. In

[13:36] other words, we can um have a district court order that they bring the property

[13:42] into compliance with our ordinance. If they failed to do that within a

[13:47] reasonable amount of time, the judgment would also provide that the city um if

[13:53] the judge approves the judgment, the city would be able to enter the property

[13:57] and correct the violation and any costs incurred in collecting that vi

[14:02] correcting that violation um plus a you know a reasonable

[14:06] administrative cost uh would be something that we could record a lean on

[14:11] the property in. Well, that's what we have now, but it sounds like we need to

[14:15] have a minimum landscape requirement and if they don't meet it, then the city has

[14:19] the right to go on the property instead of having to go to the court to ask

[14:22] permission. Correct. >> What I was addressing was the

[14:25] enforcement method, the the method >> that we're using now. Got it.

[14:29] » Um, as far as um minimum landscaping requirements,

[14:36] I'm not I would have to do a lot more research

[14:40] on that. I'm not sure that's going to be something that's going to apply in

[14:43] Michigan. >> To Dave's point, it could be just to

[14:47] protect from erosion and from, you know, um,

[14:51] » yes, >> I think we can do that.

[14:52] » Flooding and problems like that. >> We can do that right away, I believe.

[14:55] » Yeah, but that's that's not the minimum like lake.

[15:00] » Well, if you say you have to, you know, two bushes every

[15:04] » Yeah, >> we we can enforce the erosion ordinance.

[15:08] » Yeah. Reading what? No problem doing that. Well, here there's there's really

[15:11] limits on what we can do on on matters of taste. I believe I think 36 Pinegate

[15:18] uh although we got there, it just took way too long to be honest with you

[15:23] because we had we're at the mercy of the court so to

[15:28] speak, >> right? So, we need to take that

[15:30] » step out for you guys. >> Yeah. Revise the law so that we don't

[15:35] have to go to court so that if they if a property isn't maintained like this

[15:40] piece of property is owned by China, someone in China.

[15:45] » If it's not being maintained, >> we can go onto the property. We can

[15:50] » That's exactly what we're saying. We can't do it.

[15:53] » I I don't believe so without some type of court order. Yes.

[15:58] » I wonder if Birmingham has something like But then Okay. So there's no way

[16:03] then to get more than just what the judge orders because I mean they could

[16:10] use this as a cheap way to maintain their landscaping from out of state and

[16:15] out of the country. I mean we're just getting our cost back plus a fee. We all

[16:20] know what it costs >> in Boonefield Hills to retain a

[16:24] landscaping company to take care of your property. It's expensive. I think we I

[16:29] would think we would want to make it something that's painful that they

[16:32] wouldn't, you know, something that gradually increases like if we have to

[16:37] go out once it's this. If we have to go out twice, it's this. Every time

[16:42] interest on our money, if we're only collecting it on their tax bill, they're

[16:46] they're using our money for all that period of time.

[16:50] » It just seems like we should have some law that has more teeth in it. If uh if

[16:54] I may, >> the ordinance that was enforced on that

[16:59] um you have a requirement for vacant property that's owned by an entity more

[17:06] than I think it's 30 miles from the location of the property. They are

[17:11] required to hire a property management company to take care of the the

[17:16] landscaping. That was the ordinance we cited because

[17:20] they did not have a property management company. So when we went to court um we

[17:27] asked the judge to order them to comply with our ordinance and when they refused

[17:33] we had a judgment entered u that allowed the city to hire a property management

[17:39] company. Yes, the city gets build for it, but we put that on the tax leans and

[17:46] so it's recovered the next year. There is an administrative expense and I know

[17:52] that particular one was very time consuming. Um,

[17:57] this is kind of a new procedure we were doing in the 48th district court. I'm

[18:02] hoping it will um get smoother and and quicker turnaround. I've had success

[18:08] with it in other communities. So, I'm hoping we'll get there. Um, but, uh, you

[18:15] know, increasing the penalty would be something that you could explore a

[18:20] municipal civil infraction. Um, there's a lot more latitude with the amount of

[18:25] fine that can be imposed, particularly with like a first, second, and third

[18:29] type of uh, of violation. So, yeah, there's some things we could do to make

[18:37] it more painful, I think was the term. Is it possible that once a judgment is

[18:43] um made and it's in favor of the the city then um

[18:50] at that point the judge has spoken that's it's acknowledged that there's a

[18:55] problem and then it that would trigger um additional charges. we would update

[19:00] our ordinance to say that if a judgment is

[19:03] if there's a judgment against the property owner, um we would then invoke

[19:09] a a a greater penalty because I I totally agree with Commissioner

[19:15] Buckley's uh comment that they're probably just h happy to have somebody

[19:20] managing this for them. They're not here. We're taking care of it for them

[19:23] at cost plus 15% which >> I mean

[19:27] » that's nothing. we're doing all the work for them and that that's just not

[19:30] painful enough. >> Well, um

[19:33] » to the point of >> to the point of

[19:37] doing something after the judgment is entered, that's not something we can do.

[19:42] Um but like I said, we could increase the penalty initially and make it more

[19:48] painful that way. Okay. >> Uh we do have

[19:52] I've seen one ordinance in another uh community that is assesses a fine on um

[20:00] I think it's a wetland violation, some type of environmental uh restriction,

[20:04] and it it's like a $5,000 fine. >> Um so, you know, that's something we

[20:10] could look into. >> Okay. Yeah. This isn't supposed to be

[20:14] painful. reasonably related to the interference with the police power

[20:19] safety, >> right?

[20:20] » Not painful. >> Compliance is

[20:22] » compliance with reasonable behavior. Yeah, it's not painful. There's no

[20:26] retribution involved in this, but make it as much as you can, will you, please?

[20:32] » What about how it relates to some of the um buildings along Woodward, like the

[20:37] old Denny's? >> I I think we've been very lenient for a

[20:42] very long time. >> We'll work it out. Yes,

[20:45] » it will work out quickly. >> Yes, I Yeah, I I I agree. Yeah, that

[20:50] one's a little bit there's, you know, there's some nuances of that, but yes,

[20:54] absolutely. >> That's been an embarrassment.

[21:00] » Um, I had a couple of I I'm the one who brought this up and because it's a very

[21:07] sore spot. >> Um,

[21:10] Dave and I differ on this, but that's okay.

[21:14] So what our the short answer on this is that we do not give um a CO um unless

[21:23] until a permanent long ground cover must be established by seating or soding

[21:27] before a certificate of occupancy. And um there are other communities that are

[21:32] the same way. I actually and I have to say this um this wasn't

[21:37] followed on Falmouth. They moved in in June and not one piece of landscaping

[21:43] was done. In fact, the yard was dirt, the driveway wasn't done, and um you

[21:50] know, they were I actually had neighbors calling me because the kids were

[21:54] swimming in a pool with no fence around it.

[21:57] » That's incredible. >> And so I called Dave on it. Dave went

[22:01] out there and now the our resident our neighborhood gets to look at a or one of

[22:07] those orange plastic construction fences on the side of the yard. Everybody walks

[22:12] by and we we get to look at it. They don't get

[22:14] » Wait, don't you have to have a permit to have a fence?

[22:17] » Yeah. So, if I if I may. Um, >> so, uh, Foulmouth, I I I understand the

[22:24] frustration. Uh, you know, it is a nice home in the backyard. the majority of

[22:29] it's all done. Um, and they, as far as landscaping, they they did comply. Uh,

[22:35] matter of fact, they went above and beyond in the uh approval with the

[22:38] planning commission. They were required to put uh 23 Green Giant Arbories that

[22:44] are 11 12 feet tall. They put this the the the homeowner put 42. I counted when

[22:50] I went there that are 15t tall. So, that screening was I think compliant with

[22:55] » from the neighbors on the hill. >> Yes.

[22:57] » Great. Thank you. >> So, u that was complied with. I went in

[23:00] the backyard to look at the fence. Most of the fence is done. Orange thing, I

[23:03] agree. Maybe we'll find a better solution for the orange fence for a

[23:06] temporary thing. Or maybe that fence is done. I don't know. But they're very

[23:09] close to finishing the pool fence, but the majority of the pool fence was done

[23:13] when I was there. There was a small section that wasn't done. Um just kind

[23:18] of, you know, in all fairness, uh homes in this city can take two and a half,

[23:23] three years to build. They put this house together with the stuff with with

[23:27] all the pool and everything in their backyard within 18 months. So, they

[23:31] moved pretty fast on it. Um, the temporary COO, I know what I wrote in

[23:36] there, but temporary, which is wrong. Uh, temporary COS in our city at times

[23:42] we allow people to move in with with some of the landscaping not done, but we

[23:47] take a bond. So, we took a $50,000 bond from these folks um with all the

[23:52] requirements that have to be done. I wish it was done faster. I know it's in

[23:56] the uh close uh to, you know, in in the residential neighborhood that you live,

[24:01] but there are some things that are going well there. Um and there are some things

[24:05] that could be going a little bit faster, but

[24:08] » majority of projects done. >> When you bonded, do you have a time

[24:11] limit for them to fulfill the requirements?

[24:13] » So, we we gave them uh so the ordinance says they can have a temporary CFO up to

[24:18] six months. We gave him 60 days which uh expires the 14th of this month which

[24:24] expires in two or three days. I don't know exactly where it's at. Scott is our

[24:29] building official. Do you know exactly where it's at, Scott?

[24:32] » I'm going to go out there and see. But I know

[24:40] I mean what are you going to do? Kick them out?

[24:43] Well, I mean, yeah, we we try to >> problem with letting them move in. If

[24:46] you don't want them lose their bond, >> I would agree. Yeah. Letting them move

[24:50] in. >> I can see why you do because Yeah.

[24:53] » people die to move in. >> I just don't think you should let them

[24:55] fill the pool if there's no fence around it.

[24:57] » Yeah. I don't know how that happened. How did they fill a pool with no safety

[25:01] issue? >> The dirt is one thing to look at, but

[25:03] this pool is an issue. >> Absolutely. And and we've run across

[25:07] pools that the fence isn't done and and then

[25:10] » you can ask them to drain the pool. >> Yeah.

[25:13] » I mean, if it's a safety issue for real. >> Yeah.

[25:15] » Or they have to put another kind of fence around it until the real fence

[25:18] comes. >> Well, I think they should probably have

[25:20] a a co- compliant fence. Whether it's ordinance compliant, but at least code

[25:24] compliant um for protection. So, we'll make sure that's done right.

[25:30] » But I think it's it's should be the the fence for the pool should be done.

[25:35] out there. >> Yeah, I went out there with with uh

[25:39] » it's going on the side where the orange fence is.

[25:41] » No, that won't be there at all.

[25:46] » Okay. Um Okay. The other thing I just want to

[25:50] take note of is um I realize that you did the cities around us and I think

[25:55] that's great. Um however, I would say that um well, our city is a little bit

[26:02] different. I think we're very unique and um I think that so I looked up a couple

[26:07] of other or um cities. One of them I've said before in this in these meetings is

[26:12] Indian Indian Wells, California. It's a very prestigious community in the Palm

[26:16] Springs area. And um they actually go as far as telling a homeowner whether it's

[26:24] new a new home or an existing home that if you're going to landscape over 2500

[26:30] square feet, you are required to have a drawing by a California licensed

[26:35] landscape architect and it is reviewed by the design review committee. Um and

[26:41] that is for not in existing and non-conforming areas are grandfathered.

[26:45] So, if you already own it and you're there, that's fine. But if it's you're

[26:49] going to change your landscaping, it's over 2500 square feet. And I liked this

[26:54] wording. They actually used the wording in the or ordinance and they said all

[26:58] homeowners um are responsible for maintaining the

[27:03] the city's luxury aesthetics is what they said. Is that so? They're

[27:09] saying, "Hey, if you have a home here, you need to have

[27:12] » That's subjective. >> It's very subjective." It is. It is.

[27:16] » You can't legislate that. >> We'll make Mark really wealthy on

[27:21] » They too Yeah, they they too have a land,

[27:24] » you know, >> they too have a landscaping rule of

[27:27] three plants per 100 square feet minimum for residents landscaping. Um, I also

[27:32] looked at Palm Beach and I didn't get to go that far into this one, but um, I did

[27:39] see that all landscaping material has to be installed prior to certificate of

[27:43] occupancy in Palm Beach. So, if they build a new house and it has to be and

[27:48] they also have one tree per,50 square feet, a maximum of 15 trees in

[27:54] Palm Beach. So, here's I just want to bring this up. I I know there's this

[27:59] whole fine line and subjective and everything, but something that just

[28:03] happened. So, the orange fencing is what we look at. Um I had a um person on

[28:09] Martell send me this picture today and I'll let you guys take a look at this

[28:15] and then also they have a temporary fence over to the over in the side of

[28:19] their house. And you know, the problem we have is the residents are complaining

[28:25] because they're redoing this house and they want to put a they want to put a

[28:30] fence up, but this is look like this. >> Is that netting in front of another

[28:34] fence? >> Uhhuh.

[28:36] » Yeah. >> Oh, okay.

[28:37] » And then they have a a a uh this temporary fence on the other side and

[28:44] the homeowners are tired of looking at it. It This is Martell's, you Is this

[28:49] the one we were just reviewing? >> Yes. Oh, this is the one.

[28:52] » Yeah, this is the one. Um, it was >> You were taking it all down though.

[28:56] » It was good, but we had The point is is we had to come in front of a planning

[29:00] commission. We had to have a homeowners complain, write letters, send pictures

[29:07] before a commissioner said, "Look, you need to take it down and it needs to be

[29:12] down this week." Like, so what I'm trying to say is

[29:17] we should be able to have something that we put in these ordinances that

[29:22] residents who are paying taxes do not have to put up with people who are just

[29:27] taking their time, who are putting up temporary fencing, who are just, you

[29:33] know, they they're not considerate of their neighbors. This one is even goes f

[29:39] further with it, but I feel like you went under construction. You you did

[29:44] remodeling and you had to have a pods thing in front for a while. I mean,

[29:48] everyone has their time frame where they have to do something that is not making

[29:53] neighbors happy. >> But I just think that um and I agree

[29:55] with that. Um >> but I think that

[29:59] » John, >> I'm trying to get you something that you

[30:02] can be a little bit more than just go walking into a resident and saying, you

[30:07] know, slap their hand and give them a $100 fine or whatever. True.

[30:11] » I think that's what the commission is saying is it's got to be something that

[30:15] is really going to hurt or get them motivated to be able to do something

[30:19] instead of just waiting. >> Well, like you were saying, if something

[30:22] is blighted looking, you don't have any teeth to ask them do anything except cut

[30:26] the lawn. Correct. >> Yes.

[30:28] » Well, John, I John, how often do we That is a horrible

[30:33] uh green fence is bad and I was on that property uh last week and it wasn't

[30:38] there. So, You know, is this a bad bad look for

[30:42] them at the planning commission meeting? It really was. But let me ask you, John,

[30:46] do you run across fences that are are not per ordinance? And what do you do

[30:51] about that? >> Not often. There's a few that um like

[30:55] that one on Martell there. They said they were there last week. It wasn't up.

[30:59] Um we've had a lot of cars parked in the driveway. They're the contractor. So,

[31:02] it's not as though we go walking around those sites every day. A lot of scenes

[31:06] from curbside. Had a lot of trucks there. Didn't

[31:10] D again gave you a heads up on that today went right out there. So an

[31:14] instance like that I did a knock on the door obviously no home the contractors

[31:20] who were on site had nothing to do with that. So now I'm in the process of

[31:24] getting a hold of the general contractor see that

[31:29] one that was just today. I guess my question to you is are you

[31:34] you feel you're able to if you're given the complaint you're one person so

[31:38] there's no way you can see all these things that happen in the city but

[31:41] you're one person most of the time you're getting the complaints from me

[31:44] but when you get the complaint are you able to go out there and remedy it and

[31:47] what percentage of the time do you feel you're able to remedy it

[31:50] » definitely can remedy it 90% of the time it's things are done within a week max

[31:56] usually seven days >> okay is there anything that you see that

[32:01] you that could help you in your job.

[32:04] » Um, like I said, 90% of people go with the flow. Literally, um, guys, it's

[32:09] somewhat informal at times, too. It's not even a You have two things. You have

[32:13] a notice of violation, which is formal letter, unofficial letter. Um, it's got

[32:19] the city on it and everything. What I normally do for property maintenance,

[32:25] it's informal. It's called a violation notice. That is a handwritten notice

[32:30] explaining the violation, what you can do to fix it, and I attach my business

[32:34] card to it. So, if you have any questions, call me. Cell phone,

[32:37] everything. Call me anytime with that. They I normally don't even get a call

[32:42] within three or four days. It's taken care of. Not even a correspondence or

[32:47] even talking. That's if they're not home. I try. There's a violation. I

[32:50] knock on every door. I'd rather do it face to face and send a letter or phone

[32:54] call or something. 90% of the time I don't even talk to

[32:59] them here. So, >> okay. But we're talking about it. So, it

[33:04] happens. And like you said, a lot of times it's hard for you to see it. Um,

[33:07] but >> So, we're talking about it. So, there

[33:11] seems like there needs to be some kind of

[33:13] » change or resolve. >> I think so. I I think uh what could

[33:17] change is what we really when when we have the problems. So, it's it's great

[33:21] that John can solve 90 plus percent of them, but when the real problems occur

[33:26] and and uh we have to go through that court process, I think we got to find a

[33:30] better answer. I think uh Mark and I can work on that and bring something back to

[33:34] you. >> Okay,

[33:36] » great. Thank you. >> Thank you.

[33:38] » Appreciate that. All right. Um next item on the agenda, the commission will

[33:42] discuss the traffic control improvement options at Hickory Grove and Lasser.

[33:48] » Thank you, mayor. Uh, last time I brought this up to the the commission, I

[33:52] mean, there was a few questions that was asked of me. So, I had a meeting um with

[33:58] uh with um Oakland County Road Commission. And, you know, I I guess I'm

[34:04] sort of just kind of rehashing the uh the information that they provided me,

[34:08] the study that they provided me. Um, but I can just kind of go over the my

[34:13] executive summary. Uh, the traffic signal at Loster and Hickory Grove is

[34:17] about 30 years old. and at the end of its uh service life. Uh the road

[34:22] commission advised that uh this is the last intersection in the county not

[34:26] updated with left turn lanes and or modern signal technology. The ownership

[34:31] of the intersection we determined that was one of the questions that the

[34:34] commission had. Who really owns this and does the township have some

[34:38] responsibility? So the ownership of the intersection is divided between the the

[34:43] city and uh Oakland County. >> Our city and Oakland County.

[34:48] » Yes. our city, >> not their city.

[34:49] » Yeah, not their city. >> Um, and by the way, I did actually also

[34:53] talk to uh Supervisor Mike McCriedy about this issue, discuss it with him.

[34:59] Uh, and um, you know, he I think he uh, he's very supportive, but uh, um, it is

[35:07] our responsibility, you know, replacing. Um so um so the so the the county

[35:15] essentially has the north and west components of the intersection and we

[35:19] have the south and east sections. Um that's how it it's kind of divided but

[35:25] replacing the signal is both our responsibility. So this was uh this

[35:29] issue was brought up uh some time ago and uh I asked uh the road commission to

[35:36] complete a formal alternatives analysis to provide to the commission which they

[35:41] did in February of 2026 and in May of 2026.

[35:45] Um we provided that information to the commission. Um the the uh road

[35:51] commission intends to address the signal within five years. One of the questions

[35:55] I asked them is what what if the city doesn't uh get involved sort of lead the

[35:59] signal as is and they believe they should they're going to replace it one

[36:03] way or the other uh within five years because they believe it's a safety issue

[36:07] just because it's old old equipment. It's outdated. It doesn't really

[36:11] » act or respond like everything else. >> You can't ignore this. Right.

[36:14] » Right. So, um, now the the, uh, the county, uh,

[36:20] recommends, um, a compact roundabout. Um, the city's

[36:26] estimated share was approximately 259,000.

[36:29] I might be wrong on that, but, that's the that's what was in the the report,

[36:32] the original report. Um, and both mark PES pedestrian crossings at the

[36:37] intersection, uh, which is in the township. They lie

[36:41] outside our our corporate limits. So, I know there's probably some residents

[36:45] here from the township and it's important that they know that these

[36:48] locations are not within the city of Bloomfield Hills and they're not the

[36:51] respons responsibility of the city of Bloomfield. As a matter of fact, when I

[36:54] drove through there, we had previous discussions about our police department

[36:58] and you know, folks crossing it kind of, you know, made my heart skip because you

[37:03] know, we could have be making claims that it's not within our jurisdiction.

[37:06] We cannot have our public safety officers work outside of our city

[37:10] limits. there's a there's a uh it's a liability issue and everything else. So,

[37:15] I think it's I wanted to make sure that was clear here today. But essentially,

[37:21] the county's asked me, you know, several times, what do you think? What do you

[37:24] think? Um I'm I'm certainly not trying to pester the commission. I just um I

[37:30] think it's important that uh we work collaboratively with the county. Um I do

[37:34] work collaboratively with them on a lot of other issues and so I have a very

[37:38] good relationship. So, out of respect to them and out of respect to uh not only

[37:43] our residents, but everybody drives through there, including the township

[37:45] residents, I think it's just something I wanted to bring back up for um you know,

[37:50] maybe some consideration. And so, I at the end of my report,

[37:55] I just um I essentially uh provided uh what I think you can too.

[38:03] So, let me see here. >> And the report indicated that 80% of the

[38:08] has already been conducted by the county on on the roundabout and I would hope

[38:15] that we wouldn't have to pay for that. They did that before. So I mean I know

[38:20] there it said there would be some added costs we don't know about but but 80% of

[38:24] the design is already done that um it has much less impact on the neighbors.

[38:30] To me when we make a decision we should look at who does this impact the most

[38:35] and it's the people that live right around there. property might be

[38:39] impacted. And it said the um the neighbor uh the the signalized

[38:46] intersection would require roadway widening affecting a retaining wall

[38:52] affecting fencing, 375 ft of sidewalk, seven driveway approaches and utilities

[38:58] and eight full weeks of closure. Whereas the roundabout has none of that. it fits

[39:03] within the existing right the existing property and um they said it eliminates

[39:10] the the left turn conflicts driving the crash pattern and it's only six weeks of

[39:16] full closure and and then as you pointed out we all had concerns about the safety

[39:22] of the pedestrians walk particularly the little kids walking to school but it's

[39:26] not our jurisdiction now so that doesn't really factor into our decision lawsuit

[39:33] and I just I could not go for a roundabout unless you gave me assurance

[39:37] that the type same type of safety protection was provided here that exists

[39:41] on at Middle Belt in Maple and at Farmington and Maple with with

[39:46] Bernstein's lawsuit. Remember, he sued him about handicap. You'll have no

[39:50] ability for handicapped people to cross that street

[39:53] and I am really worried about this. The only thing

[39:56] » I would May I add to that? Um, may I ask so is this is the um

[40:03] the other the county willing to pay for crosswalks that light up when someone

[40:09] pushes the button >> and they're ra I know they're going to

[40:11] be raised but are they willing to stop the traffic when a person is going by

[40:17] because >> uh we had a whole room of people here

[40:20] and they weren't our city residents they were the other city residents but there

[40:25] there's a huge number of people that this affects and I think we have a moral

[40:30] responsibility for these children's safety and the only way I would approve

[40:35] and I'm with Allen is a roundabout and I love roundabouts driving but I don't

[40:40] love and don't understand I would I would like to I would only approve a

[40:44] roundabout if under the condition that the crosswalks were raised and lit and

[40:51] the traffic had to stop when a person was pushed the button and they were

[40:56] going across I don't mind if the button only

[40:58] » and I would only approve it if there is a stop sign on Loser between Hickory

[41:04] Grove and Long Lake. >> So, I can comment on uh some of the

[41:07] safety features that they're talking about with the roundabout and you hit

[41:11] you you uh touched on one is the raised pavement and that really supposedly

[41:17] really slows the cars down. They also talked about, I was looking for the

[41:20] acronym, but it's essentially a a light system where you walk up to the uh where

[41:25] you would cross the roundabout area, which is set off from the roundabout.

[41:29] You would push a button and would be amber lights that light. It wouldn't be

[41:33] red lights. So, you know, it just it's signaling drivers from a distance that

[41:38] someone's going to cross. >> That's not sufficient. A yellow light.

[41:41] » What do we have? What do they >> That's not sufficient.

[41:43] » What do we have at Farmington Maple? traffic.

[41:45] » Uh I think it's uh uh >> signals.

[41:48] » What's that? >> They're called hawk signals where you

[41:50] walk up to them and they're flashing pedestrians which in theory once they're

[41:54] lit they're as good as a red light if you

[41:57] » Yeah, that's what we need. >> But but that's what he's talking about.

[42:00] They're amber flashing big lights and there's a sign that lights up.

[42:03] Pedestrian cross. It's >> not It's not the Hawk though.

[42:06] » It's not the Hawk. >> I think we need I saw it in Atlanta

[42:09] where you push it and it's I They were red in Atlanta. I don't know. I mean, a

[42:13] yellow light to a car means slow down. >> Pedestrian flashing is the same on

[42:19] traffic stop, same as a traffic control device, it's the same as a red light.

[42:22] You have to same as a yellow flashlight for fire trucks, guys. Like, if you run

[42:27] that, it's equivalent to running a red light. Plus, we might get

[42:31] » what one thing I'd like to just comment on in regards to the safety. Um, I think

[42:36] we need to consider also that with a roundabout, the traffic approaching, all

[42:42] traffic has to slow down. So, the cars coming to the roundabout are going to be

[42:48] going slower at all times than cars that are just passing through.

[42:52] » They can still hit a child and hurt a child going 25. What I'm saying though

[42:56] is >> going

[42:57] » when you've got the green light on a normal intersection that's not a

[43:00] roundabout, >> you can have cars flying through there

[43:03] at 40 miles an hour and somebody's trying to cross

[43:06] » and that's where the danger is. With a roundabout, all cars have to stop.

[43:11] » Stop light, people have to stop. >> I agree that there should be some kind

[43:14] of a light indicating a crossing. The other factor that we should consider is

[43:19] that when crossing a normal intersection, you have to be looking

[43:23] left, you have to be looking right. You have to make sure that everything's

[43:26] clear from both sides. With a roundabout, you only have to look one

[43:29] way. The traffic is only coming from one direction. So, it's easier, safer to

[43:36] cross on a roundabout than it is in my mind than a normal intersection.

[43:40] » It It matters what roundabout you got. If you're talking about

[43:44] if you're talking about it's not even true at Maple and Lasser. I mean I I did

[43:49] the condemnations when they did the acquisition of the corners and then I

[43:54] think about Greenfield at 12 and 13 and a half mile 12 and a half mile. There's

[44:00] one on Greenfield the small roundabout which is something akin to what we're

[44:03] going to have. there was no real acquisitions

[44:07] and you know it's sort of fun to run over the curb a little bit sometimes.

[44:12] I'm not supposed to admit that. I'm really worried.

[44:14] » I think it's an important thing to consider and to understand that every

[44:18] single car that goes through that roundabout is going to be at a slow

[44:23] speed. >> That is not the case with a normal

[44:25] intersection. >> Slower speed. At this roundabout, if you

[44:29] drive down Greenfield, you're going at a slower speed, not slow speed. I bet you

[44:33] if it's it's 35 miles long. >> This is a compact roundabout. You can't

[44:37] go through it at speeds probably greater than what 20 miles an hour 15 something

[44:43] like that if that >> 10 to 12 or something.

[44:46] » So it it's going to slow the cars down and not not only that it's going to slow

[44:50] down every single car that comes to the intersection.

[44:55] » It doesn't eliminate the chance of them hitting

[44:57] » well seeing a child completely. But >> seeing a child, that's the problem.

[45:02] » I think it it may seem counterintuitive, but I think that after reading this in

[45:09] detail and really understanding how it works, I'm in full support of a

[45:12] roundabout. As long as we have indicator lights that that indicate that

[45:17] somebody's trying to cross because traffic's already going to be going

[45:20] slowly at that point and you're just saying, "Hey, I need to cross." They'll

[45:24] stop. You can cross. >> We need to indicate. We need to verify

[45:28] what kind of indicator lights if we >> are we paying for these even though

[45:33] because the crossing is on the township side

[45:36] of the >> well it

[45:39] I mean I don't I I don't know how >> it sounds like they're splitting it in

[45:42] half and that their half has all the cross signals

[45:46] » so they should be paying for those. >> It's certainly something we I can

[45:49] address. Uh and that's it's a fair point. Um, I I can say that the lights

[45:56] the way they explained it to me that they're they're really the way the the

[45:59] roundabout's going to be set up because the ray race pavement the sight distance

[46:04] for those lights is going to even be better than what's currently there. So,

[46:09] » what lights are you referring to, please? So, um, the amber lights that

[46:13] you push up, so if someone were to cross, let's say, uh, they're on they're

[46:17] on Hickory Grove and they want to cross on the north side of Hickory Grove, you

[46:21] know, either way, um, across Lasser, there would be a a a button on each

[46:26] side. You you press a button and they would start flashing the person to to

[46:31] Commissioner Baxter's point, if you're walking westbound, you would look to

[46:34] your right to see if any cars are coming. If you're walking eastbound,

[46:37] you'd look to your left, look northbound to see if any cars are coming, but you'd

[46:40] only be looking for the one car coming. And if it's wide open,

[46:44] » if you're old enough to be a driver and know that that's flow traffic. I mean, a

[46:48] little kid may not. >> Well, I I guess what I'm saying is that

[46:52] the the lights uh should notify a driver, let's say, that's driving

[46:57] southbound on Lasser quite a distance away. Uh and then the person crossing

[47:03] can make a determination if they feel it's safe or not.

[47:06] But I I'm not this is not uh my proposal. I'm just bringing the options

[47:11] and uh I will you know >> can we ask them to specify what kind of

[47:18] cross signal they would put in and >> yeah it is the am the ambient lights for

[47:23] it and we we don't have to pay for it. That's a fair point. I I think and I

[47:27] think that probably could be could be taken care of certainly that we wouldn't

[47:31] have to pay for the for the lights for the crossing of the lights there. That

[47:36] that's a fair point. I can certainly talk to him about that. I'm trying to

[47:39] find the the acronym of what it >> RF RFPs.

[47:42] » Yes. So, what does that stand for? >> Good type. They're the but they are the

[47:47] push button signalized white lights for pedestrian crossings just like

[47:52] » but they don't they're not red and so they're not so that's the difference

[47:56] that that the red ones I think were >> yeah but I mean it's still illegal it's

[48:01] still illegal to cross one of those whether pedestrian crosswalk so they act

[48:05] as an enforcement agent whether they're yellow or red was my point before

[48:10] » I beg to differ >> but I mean yeah

[48:14] » those are just less than a hawk signal hawk signal stop all traffic in all

[48:18] directions. >> And I think the reason why they don't

[48:21] want that hawk signal to stop in all directions because you're defeating the

[48:24] purpose of the actual roundabout. And that's the

[48:29] » logic doing it like twice a mornings and nights at school, right? I mean, is that

[48:36] right? You know, kids don't >> 8:00 and

[48:39] » Yeah. I like >> that's when all the calls are.

[48:43] » Yeah. I would go that's real. Uh, I think you'd want to have an officer out

[48:47] there from that jurisdiction doing the crossing in my opinion.

[48:51] » That would be the township. >> Yeah. I don't know if the chief has any

[48:54] comment on that. >> I know that Pville Township is

[48:57] responsible for staffing those two problems and they doing everything they

[49:02] can to do that and they are facing significant hurdles to do that.

[49:12] We like to help the problem as uh from a liability standpoint. I wouldn't want

[49:16] those officers out there. >> Yeah.

[49:18] » And I I think you can you know it's like you can't always have an officer out

[49:24] there. So we need the proper crosswalk in place. You just can't

[49:30] » that's the only way I would ever approve a a roundabout.

[49:33] » The solution for that would be those Amber signals for the roundabout

[49:37] component of it. There are most expensive one probably has a signal

[49:42] you can push the button and cross but it essentially would only be

[49:47] for north side and the west side

[49:52] but >> and the other problem with the

[49:53] roundabout is the flow of traffic would be non-stop on Lawer and everybody all

[50:00] of us coming out of our subdivisions we can't get out now. So if you if you add

[50:04] the roundabout,

[50:07] » that's why we that's why Commissioner Fischer is asking for the

[50:12] stop sign. >> We'd like them the stop signs that were

[50:16] were removed to be put back. >> I think there have been a lot more

[50:19] accidents coming out of our sub than you have records of.

[50:25] There was, you know, when I first moved here 20 years ago, there was a stop sign

[50:31] like for the first 12, 14 years at least

[50:37] » when they closed the high school. That's when they stop.

[50:39] » They took them out when they they were doing the construction on the high

[50:42] school. >> Is that when they took them out?

[50:44] » Or as >> they should have put them back. I mean,

[50:46] » I asked Dave about remember when they did the high school and they put a light

[50:51] up there. remember there was a light >> there at the high school and Dave said

[50:56] he doesn't remember or doesn't know who put it. Somebody put a light up there.

[50:59] » I don't know who put it there but I do know that the high school and the middle

[51:03] school the traffic flow I think is different the whole the setup. So that

[51:06] could be one component of it but >> a lot less people coming out of the high

[51:10] school driving. There's there you know they got more buses coming in. Yes.

[51:15] » Just just just another thing to consider about adding a stop sign. I mean, if you

[51:19] think about what we're trying to do, we're trying to create a delay so that

[51:23] people can get out of their driveways. And what the roundabout does is

[51:29] essentially that because the time that it takes to get from

[51:34] where you enter the roundabout to where you exit the roundabout, you're creating

[51:38] a delay. And in fact, that delay is probably longer than what is going to be

[51:43] in reality a rolling stop at those stop signs.

[51:48] So, I don't know that it's >> it's a role. I mean, you can't say that

[51:52] people stop at the roundabout. They don't.

[51:55] » They don't stop at the roundabout, but they they they do stop at the

[51:57] roundabout, but they don't stop at the stop.

[51:59] » Time that it takes to get through a roundabout, which is creating the the

[52:03] delay. It takes time to go through. >> It slows people down, but it doesn't

[52:07] create that. It doesn't change the gap. The guy in front of you is slowing down.

[52:10] You're slowing down, but your your cars are consecutively flowing through there.

[52:16] I don't think the roundabout solves I it doesn't solve the traffic problem on

[52:21] Lasser in front of the middle school. >> I would agree. It doesn't I mean you're

[52:28] still going to have um and I you can say it's different between high school and

[52:35] middle school but I happen to know the PTO president of that middle school and

[52:41] she's like every parent drives because they all have extracurricular activities

[52:47] after school or things like that and they don't and the bus services now are

[52:53] longer routes than what they were before. So, they have to get home early,

[52:58] you know, earlier or whatever. So, you have a lot of parents. I mean, she was

[53:02] the first one that admitted to me. She said, "Yeah." She goes, "It's it's awful

[53:07] in that school picking up your child." And she said, "I cut through the parking

[53:11] lot. I'm not supposed to, but that's what we do."

[53:13] » Yeah. Well, what the I think that the exit at the north end is from from my

[53:20] experience yesterday, the exit to the north end is not attached directly to

[53:24] the parking lot. >> Correct. Yes, it is. You're right.

[53:27] » Because I went my son took the first tour yesterday. We went in the circle

[53:30] came out. It doesn't >> And uh those people coming out in the

[53:34] morning at 8:00. That line looks like it's 25, 30 yards deep sometimes and

[53:40] it's so stressful and I just stop and let 30 people come out when there's a

[53:44] second there because it's like they can't get out otherwise. No,

[53:48] » but the roundabout, our problems with the roundabout is just beginning because

[53:51] when they do the work on Woodward, >> the weight is going to be down to lot to

[53:56] to Long Lake Road. >> It is. It's going it's inevitable

[54:00] because it's almost approaching Hickory Grove now going out on the onto Square

[54:06] Lake Road. >> That's true.

[54:07] » And the way you got to do this, you go down Hickory to Woodward than to go

[54:10] north now. That won't be available anymore,

[54:13] » right? >> You know, it's it's going to be a long

[54:15] couple years no matter what you do. >> What are they thinking of doing this if

[54:19] they do >> not till after they fix Woodward?

[54:21] Correct. >> Yeah. They they they wouldn't even start

[54:24] it till 2029. >> Okay. That would be something that that

[54:28] So, this isn't something you have to make a decision about tonight.

[54:30] Certainly, and I can I can always ask more questions. As a matter of fact, I

[54:34] could ask them to come back, >> talk to you more if you like.

[54:37] » Can you um verify whether or not they will pay for the crosswalks themselves

[54:42] and and what kind of crosswalk they would pay for and to show us,

[54:47] » you know, video pictures? >> Do that.

[54:52] » Yeah. I you know and >> it might be helpful.

[54:56] » In the meantime, can we put the stop signs back?

[54:59] » I I I I will uh you know I don't know. >> I don't know why we're getting so much

[55:04] resistance when there are people in the commission that would like them. People

[55:08] in this in the room that would like them that live residents want them.

[55:12] » All those parents would >> all the parents of the school want them.

[55:15] I I what what is >> I apologize for any uh for any

[55:18] resistance at all. I just I I look to our experts about this and I I do know

[55:24] from being in long time ago being in law enforcement that you have to have

[55:28] traffic control orders for these things. You have to have an approval for that.

[55:32] So if you don't have a if you don't have a traffic control order and I don't know

[55:36] uh >> it's not legally enforceable.

[55:38] » It's not legally enforceable and it could be a liability issue.

[55:41] » Well, how were these stop signs in place before? They were legally enforceable at

[55:45] one point. Why why was that enforcement taken away? they were in place before.

[55:49] » Well, I do know that uh when I came here as a as a public safety director in

[55:53] 2013, the whole majority of the city did not have TCOs and they made that change.

[55:59] » Well, do we have to I mean then let's get the process rolling and and ask for

[56:04] one and say we would like one >> chief.

[56:08] We did that. I I did the study. I went worked with Oakland County and then just

[56:12] to be uh very transparent, clear not to just use my recommendation as law

[56:18] enforcement official. We asked for an external study from

[56:22] » I remember they came and they said, "Oh, it's gonna

[56:24] » it didn't fit where it didn't fit under Michigan law to require

[56:30] a stop sign." If we when those stop signs were there at some point, um the

[56:36] officers that worked here laughed and joked about it because they were not

[56:42] legal stop signs. When we went to court, the stop signs that that were when they

[56:47] would write a stop stop sign violation and they went to court, it got dismissed

[56:51] if someone knew the law to push it because they were not valid at the time.

[56:57] » And so that started, >> well, what can we do to get some stop

[57:00] signs and make them valid? What can we do? What is the best effort? What can we

[57:04] do to change that? >> I'll I'll take a step backwards. I I'll

[57:08] let them be invalid. What do we do to get a stop sign even if they're not

[57:11] valid? >> That's what I'm asking.

[57:12] » Yeah, they were invalid for 12 15 years. You know,

[57:16] » I mean, it worked before that. >> Isn't there a ruling if it's in place

[57:19] for so long like a path like >> eminent domain or not eminent domain,

[57:23] what's that called? >> I remember it non-conforming.

[57:27] » And I also remember having our traffic people do all the CCOs's across the

[57:31] entire community with uh Jeff Rumbley and other people because we had none.

[57:35] The issue starts to become you put one in, you know, it's uninforceable. So,

[57:40] are you going to write are you going to write tickets for it? What are you going

[57:43] to do about it? roll it or do anything bad. What happens if you do pull someone

[57:47] over and they then it's a then other charges you pull them over illegally and

[57:52] now you have these other charges and other things for what I guess I'm I'm

[57:59] concerned from a track from an engineering standpoint with traffic

[58:02] engineers is that is that the right solution what

[58:07] are we trying to solve for the right solution is this the right solution I

[58:11] think it's a slippery slope and I have communities that go around stop signs

[58:15] and we pull them all out because they don't get that.

[58:18] » What we're trying to >> What we're trying to solve for here is

[58:22] the traffic on Lassa Road has gotten extremely I mean it was bad before. It's

[58:28] got it's extremely heavy traffic not allowing residents and also the school

[58:35] people to get out. There's no stopping loss of road between

[58:40] » a very long fun road to drive and speed on that but a lot of people So,

[58:46] » so you want the honest answer is center left turn lanes and a big and I mean do

[58:51] do a road project to solve that issue with left hand turns and people coming

[58:55] out do the do a road job >> do a mini do a mini roundabout there by

[59:00] the school and it would help a lot. >> No, but the issue the issue is you can't

[59:03] turn if you can't turn left or you're stacked up and people turning left. This

[59:06] what I last coming southbound want to turn left and this you can't. So you

[59:10] stack traffic up. So put in a left turn lane so someone turn left. If someone

[59:14] wants to turn left in the school and get them out of traffic that then also that

[59:18] also produces gaps. But now you're talking about going down that road and

[59:21] making a three-lane road by every tree that's in that right way. I mean that if

[59:27] if the solution is safety solution is turned in and out of the subdivision,

[59:30] it's not it's a road change, not a stop sign. In my this is my be back up with

[59:36] » we just all lived with the stop sign and it wasn't bad when the stop signs were

[59:39] there because the stop signs stopped >> the traffic flow

[59:43] » one minute one half of you know >> why don't it worked so it just a plus b

[59:50] I don't know >> what about a stop there was a stop light

[59:53] there before what what someone do with it

[59:56] » again what happened before and the warrants now are not the same thing we

[1:00:00] do not have the traffic warrants or the volumes of the turns do that. I know we

[1:00:04] feel that way. I know we feel that way and believe me, I understand that and a

[1:00:07] young kid, teenager as well. But when people were talking about

[1:00:11] what's the for me to help give him a TCO, you're kind of there's not a lot

[1:00:16] you could do. I'm sorry, >> but if if you knew that we we wouldn't

[1:00:21] approve a roundabout unless there was a stop sign.

[1:00:25] I I think the two are mutually exclusive and I think

[1:00:28] » they're not at all because if you have a stop light at Hickory Grove and Lawer

[1:00:33] instead of a roundabout, then people have to stop and the flow of traffic

[1:00:36] stops. >> At least it's stopped in one direction.

[1:00:39] » Well, remember remember the roundabout, you're assuming that everybody in the

[1:00:42] roundabout goes southbound. Not everybody goes southbound. A lot of

[1:00:45] people go straight. A lot of people go north and a lot people turn in different

[1:00:48] directions on that. So what you're really doing is you're stopping the

[1:00:51] people from going straight through, but you're not left turns on southbound

[1:00:56] either. So, I wouldn't be I wouldn't be so certain that the

[1:01:02] roundabout isn't going to provide a similar amount of gaps.

[1:01:04] » Can I can I ask during rush hour, does the eastbound traffic on Hickory

[1:01:10] Grove exceed the westbound traffic

[1:01:14] dramatically or is it because of the left turn?

[1:01:16] » I don't know. >> Okay. What I'm saying is the traffic

[1:01:19] coming this way, it's backed up 40, 50 cars because

[1:01:25] people like me are taking I go to Hickory left to come down Loster and I

[1:01:30] gave up on on going down going north on Loster. Is there is there is there more

[1:01:35] traffic really going northbound from the west or is it because they can't make a

[1:01:42] left turn that that it backs up so much? >> We can get we can get the number. I

[1:01:46] don't remember.

[1:01:52] » I I think we're going to The reality is you're probably going to get stuck in

[1:01:55] the roundabout, but it's not going to help

[1:02:00] get the people on the east side of Lasser north of Hickory to school

[1:02:06] without help. >> Yes, sir.

[1:02:11] » I I I think we're talking about a couple different things. Um One of the major

[1:02:17] concerns that the parents have that the community members have presented to me

[1:02:21] was it wasn't straight through traffic. It's turning traffic that is endangering

[1:02:26] the kids. It's not people going 40 miles an hour. It's people that are going

[1:02:31] westbound on Deree Grove turning right to as the kids are crossing. It's not

[1:02:37] speeding through traffic. It's not through traffic. It's turning traffic.

[1:02:41] It's turning traffic that that's going right or possibly even If you're coming

[1:02:46] through on a roundabout, don't you come through and then you turn right.

[1:02:49] » I'm sorry. >> If you're coming west on Hickory Grove

[1:02:52] and you're going north, you turn right. If you're coming west and you want to go

[1:02:57] » go north, >> you turn left. So, and there's also

[1:03:00] there's also >> No, you take the first right.

[1:03:05] » So, round you go around it. >> You just said people coming west that

[1:03:08] want to go north are turning right and that's what everyone's concerned about.

[1:03:12] But in a roundabout, wouldn't you still be doing that? I'm talking about what it

[1:03:15] is right now. I'm not talking about the roundabout. I'm talking about the

[1:03:18] dangers that have been presented to us that we've gone to.

[1:03:22] » I'm just suggesting that that same danger would exist with a roundabout.

[1:03:26] » And I think we as parents agree a lot when

[1:03:35] they're supposed to stop and wait and let pedestrians cross, but they don't.

[1:03:42] They see a gap and they try to shoot. >> Absolutely.

[1:03:45] » So they don't see >> they don't they aren't even looking at

[1:03:47] what's coming across the street. >> What we have what we have now

[1:03:53] » without without a clear left turn light and a walk sign going across going

[1:03:58] across lasser is violently dangerous >> and it's monkey see monkey do. If the

[1:04:04] person behind them sees one car, then the next one just keeps going

[1:04:10] where the kids can't cross because they see those cars just shooting through.

[1:04:14] So, it's not >> so sorry.

[1:04:18] » So, I >> What do you What would you suggest? You

[1:04:21] don't live in the city. What do you suggest we do?

[1:04:23] » I I would prefer a signal with like a also like a no turn on red

[1:04:30] » because that gives a definite stop. pedestrians to cross with the

[1:04:35] roundabout. Although it would be slower and if they have a button to press and

[1:04:41] there's lights, that still doesn't mean that traffic is going to stop because

[1:04:44] they already don't stop when they're supposed to. So, if it's just like a

[1:04:49] caution, hey, they're still not going to stop. I don't see them stopping for the

[1:04:55] kids. And then also on the roundabout, the road commission pointed out that it

[1:05:02] would be two points to cross one side of the street because there will be um like

[1:05:10] medians. So it'll be two times on one side that the kids have to cross and

[1:05:15] then two more times that they have to cross to go south.

[1:05:20] So that's another point with the light going

[1:05:27] around but then traffic coming the other way. So it's going to be

[1:05:42] We ask for other >> We don't have to make the decision

[1:05:44] today, do we? >> Yeah, we don't.

[1:05:45] » No, I mean, would you I I I could offer the county to come back and I can

[1:05:51] certainly find out about your question about who would pay for those those

[1:05:55] lights. Um I guess there is some information if you there's the

[1:06:01] replace the basic lights. Probably wouldn't have the things that the the

[1:06:05] folks here recommend. So, you'd probably have to have a full-blown light system

[1:06:10] if you're if you're going to go to the lights. It would encroach into the

[1:06:14] property around. And then there's the other probably really only two options

[1:06:18] really is that the the best light system or um the roundabout. But I maybe we can

[1:06:26] bring them back. We can show you some pictures and video or something.

[1:06:29] » Yeah, maybe we do. Chief You said you went in and talked to the

[1:06:34] principal at the school >> and they were less than friendly or

[1:06:39] » I wouldn't say that they just they were happy with what they had there.

[1:06:45] » Huh. >> They were happy with what they had.

[1:06:47] » The parents aren't. Have you ISIS we received similar feedback from

[1:06:56] » as far as

[1:06:59] the the intersections two different things. We addressed

[1:07:05] the traffic flow that they have established with their uh construction

[1:07:10] company the way they have their um traffic flow pattern set up for the

[1:07:15] school drop off and everything. They are happy with what they have now with the

[1:07:19] buses and the parent drop off. They don't want any more stop signs or

[1:07:23] anything on >> I can't I'll tell you one thing. They

[1:07:25] got it easy because their buses go off on the other side and they they exit

[1:07:31] where there's nobody giving them a problem and they go south when they come

[1:07:34] out of the school. >> All the buses get to be where the

[1:07:37] athletic field is that lower, >> right? It's easy.

[1:07:40] » It's past where all the subdivisions come out. It's past where the school

[1:07:45] parents come out. They have their own little private entrance exit

[1:07:49] practically. Right. >> Absolutely. It's

[1:07:51] » so that's why the school >> so is happy with the situation is

[1:07:55] everything we can do. >> Um we are we

[1:08:00] we are doing more than what a typical police department would

[1:08:07] do or public safety. We do appreciate all your communication

[1:08:10] » and and we are going and trying to do things through the end of last school

[1:08:14] year um when we're stretched. We're all stretched in but we're do we're doing

[1:08:19] it. Um we're also putting up the speed school school speed limit signs that

[1:08:25] that >> Yeah. When are those going up?

[1:08:27] » They're going to be in uh by the end of the month. Um they're waiting on some uh

[1:08:33] specific coloring for school zones. Um the signage what the signage should be

[1:08:39] picked up uh this week and installed by next week. That's what we're hoping.

[1:08:44] » School speed being 15 miles an hour. >> 25.

[1:08:47] » You can't. >> It's already 25, isn't it?

[1:08:50] » Yes, >> it's 25.

[1:08:54] » No. >> So we have we in last year's budget, we

[1:08:58] put a traffic monitoring program together with SDK urban SDK and we've

[1:09:04] been monitoring it. We get it. We get weekly

[1:09:07] daily monthly reports on the top five roads in blue hills that are above uh

[1:09:17] above uh 85% of speed and we deploy our officers out there to take force

[1:09:23] management. Lasser is not one of those roads

[1:09:28] uh and well I should say but it is one of the roads it's anywhere from 10 to 11

[1:09:34] miles hour The average that we are finding in in

[1:09:38] vehicle speed when we go out there and do enforcement action that is confirmed

[1:09:43] we are going out there and we're stopping people for 9 10 11

[1:09:50] » 35 >> 35 36 is is the range

[1:09:56] » school >> go ahead school what the school signs do

[1:09:59] is they give us double fine we give more more fine on the fine side doubles the

[1:10:05] I'm sorry, Amy. Should these people give their name and address, please? Could

[1:10:10] you? >> Sure.

[1:10:10] » Thank you. >> Yeah, Bill 236

[1:10:14] res been attending these for a while. Appreciate you guys continuing to bring

[1:10:18] it up as a concern for all of us and I are trying to stay tight with the group

[1:10:24] of individuals that have been showing up to these meetings in the past. um that

[1:10:27] would express an interest in trying to go back to the consensus that was in the

[1:10:33] room back in April or May when there were maybe a dozen families that were

[1:10:38] rooting for that other option that's not the roundabout that is the traffic

[1:10:41] that's going to take us three years in any way

[1:10:48] option I know that I I saw the study I saw what they were talking about I think

[1:10:54] they were thinking more of traffic flow for traffic safety for individuals and

[1:11:00] we we do save the children for the morning and the afternoon that is very

[1:11:03] important. Obviously children tug at our start strings. We have two middle

[1:11:06] schoolers but there is a lot of residents that just want to ride their

[1:11:09] bike or go for a walk at that intersection too. And if you think about

[1:11:13] the general safety of the community and totality, I really truly believe and all

[1:11:18] the dozens of families that came here that live in that area, I truly believe

[1:11:21] that a a better just cross light non roundabout situation, the option two

[1:11:26] that was provided by ROC is the better way to go.

[1:11:31] » Can I suggest that you get a petition going?

[1:11:34] » Absolutely. and you present it to your city and ask them to put some money

[1:11:38] towards this >> because it benefits you the most and all

[1:11:43] of your the township the most. And if if they would come forward with helping to

[1:11:49] pay with for you know to to make the cost the same to us whether we have a

[1:11:54] roundabout or a >> a light that would make a huge

[1:12:00] difference. Wouldn't you all agree? I this is a great idea and um I'll because

[1:12:04] so the light is what a million dollars right

[1:12:07] » two million but yeah so the problem

[1:12:10] » for the city ourselves I thought we paid half that million for us our challenge

[1:12:14] here is we have a $13 million budget >> that's you guys have a huge budget I

[1:12:20] mean if if you could >> ask them to pay at least half of it if

[1:12:23] if you show the power of the people >> like that I mean we're a great idea

[1:12:28] we're happy to support it we don't know very well. So if there's any instruction

[1:12:33] maybe >> I think the the best path is you have

[1:12:36] you are taxpaying residents in the township and it affects you and if if

[1:12:41] you could appeal to your city that would be terrific

[1:12:45] » and I would offer I mean any of us would and just mayor by title but um I would

[1:12:52] go with the chief and one of you guys and go into that school district and

[1:12:56] talk to that principal and I would get them because that's you know you're

[1:13:00] We're we're all paying taxes for the school district, right?

[1:13:04] » And so they should be able to contribute too. The schools should do something. So

[1:13:09] if you had us and the county and you had the school, we should probably go to the

[1:13:14] super. >> Sounds like a stretch though. If she

[1:13:15] doesn't really care a little bit more receptive.

[1:13:18] » I was going to say, you know what, I wouldn't do the principal. I I don't

[1:13:22] know who the superintendent is now, but I would go to the superintendent.

[1:13:25] And I this has to be a collaborative effort on everybody's part to do this.

[1:13:32] Um I and don't get us wrong, we agree a light would be a lot better. The 2

[1:13:39] million, it's a little bit heavy for us, but let's try to figure out a way how to

[1:13:42] get the 2 million. >> Whether it be done by grant, taxes, the

[1:13:47] school district, >> the county, we can look we'll see what

[1:13:52] we can do. Does that work? >> That's right.

[1:13:55] I I just want it clear the principal's reaction and the principal's involvement

[1:14:01] was for the losser issue not to be loser

[1:14:06] they're two separate things I just that principal really doesn't understand she

[1:14:12] should ask the parents the students in that school how they feel about it

[1:14:16] because I'm convinced that they feel different you've got to drive that you

[1:14:20] know I drive that street at 8 7:30 or 8 in the morning when these cars are

[1:14:24] backed Yeah, there all these big things that I couldn't drive and like one after

[1:14:28] another for four for their two kids or three kids. There's no way that those

[1:14:32] people would accept their principal saying that if they knew they'd say they

[1:14:36] want the kid to go to a different school.

[1:14:40] Just a little com.

[1:14:52] » Oh, that's a >> that's a good point.

[1:14:58] » Yeah. >> I'm sorry. Can you just state your name

[1:15:01] for Amy?

[1:15:04] » Okay. She knows who. Okay. Thank you. Um,

[1:15:07] » thank you for coming. >> Yeah. Thank you for coming. This this is

[1:15:09] a big concern. Lasser is a big concern. We don't have the best, you know,

[1:15:14] approach of what we want to do. We just know we it needs to slow down. We need

[1:15:18] to we need to manage the traffic and the crosswalk. Absolutely.

[1:15:24] » Okay. Anything else? We don't have to make a decision, but we got some

[1:15:28] » Would you like me to bring or ask the road commission to come back?

[1:15:31] » Yes, please. >> You know, could we could we take a look

[1:15:34] at grants? >> I got to believe there's some type of

[1:15:38] Yeah, >> safety grant. Yeah,

[1:15:41] » we have looked at some. Um, it would be helpful if we knew the direction and

[1:15:45] then we we could apply. >> I don't know if inviting them back right

[1:15:48] now would help. They would just tell us the same thing. I I think if you could

[1:15:52] find out if they will pay for the crosswalks, the hawk like crosswalk,

[1:15:56] » we'll do that. >> That would help.

[1:15:59] » Yep. >> I mean, if you think it would help for

[1:16:01] them to come back, but I don't, >> you know, if you look at quad, I bet you

[1:16:04] could find some grants for us. >> I remember talking to a safe routes to

[1:16:08] school program through Michigan and they provide

[1:16:14] » why don't you why don't you go for it but hey

[1:16:19] » you really should have >> those aren't all necessarily so

[1:16:25] crossings are in the township so >> why don't you talk to your township

[1:16:30] about doing that apply for the grants >> yeah that would be a good idea

[1:16:33] » I'll say you guys are very receptive We'll try our best.

[1:16:38] » Okay. >> You can't even vote for us.

[1:16:44] » Don't worry about it. Exactly. >> I'm hoping they come back in 15 months.

[1:16:47] » Yeah. >> But on Tuesdays, I'll be home with my

[1:16:50] wife. >> Thank you very much. Okay. Productive

[1:16:54] anyway. Um Okay. The next item on the agenda and um apologize. Everybody, you

[1:17:00] know, said what's this all about? um is to hear an update from Mayor McCarthy,

[1:17:06] myself on the planning commission ordinance amendment process. So um I

[1:17:11] wanted to so everybody's on the same page as far as the moratorum. We started

[1:17:16] this moratorum I believe it was in February, correct? And we've extended it

[1:17:20] and it's actually due up today. That's when it's due. Um I know that uh there's

[1:17:27] been a lot of questions. What is it? Why did we do it? Was it really worth it?

[1:17:33] Um, and I wanted to tell you it's it's been an interesting process with the

[1:17:38] planning commission because they actually in the last two meetings and

[1:17:43] Commissioner Buckley will say this too is um they've really worked really well

[1:17:49] about the ordinance. They've um they talked about we we went through half of

[1:17:55] it and then this one last meeting we were going through the second half and

[1:18:00] everybody is really giving their feedback and everybody's really paying

[1:18:04] attention to what the city wants um and and what we should be doing. So I know

[1:18:12] it first started out with office space. Do we really need more office buildings

[1:18:16] here? I'd probably tell you that nobody on

[1:18:19] that commission on the planning commission thinks we need another office

[1:18:22] building. Um I'll just go that far out because we've got other ones and they

[1:18:28] are and so that's one of the things that they've been talking about. You know, we

[1:18:32] did find out that our vacancy rate for offices uh when they did the study they

[1:18:39] found out it was like what 18 19 and now it's 22% or something. And um one of the

[1:18:45] things that one of the commissioners on the planning commission said which was

[1:18:48] Will Hustler and I really liked it is he said he goes part of what this did this

[1:18:54] whole moratorum is it got us to start looking at our city center

[1:19:01] more closely and what we want. And then he said I love this. He goes we have to

[1:19:07] modernize our approach to a city center area. And I I love that word. I was

[1:19:13] like, that's really, you know, what so there there it opened everybody's eyes

[1:19:18] to what do we want here and what do we want to do? Um, we have all the we have

[1:19:24] all the data from Joe. She's still working with the commission. We because

[1:19:29] our commission we have like five or six items on we get to the end of this and

[1:19:33] we don't get it done unfortunately. But it's really great conversation. So, just

[1:19:40] to give you I know a couple of you came in later and then I'll tell you why. You

[1:19:44] know, we're at this parking one and they want to say, do you want to do it by

[1:19:48] gross or do you want to do it by net? And there's this philosophy that we

[1:19:52] don't really want to do bigger buildings and if you do it by um net, it allows

[1:19:58] for a bigger building to be put on the lot. And there they were, you know,

[1:20:02] there's all these other different reasons. Um, so I did also learn from

[1:20:08] Mark um that we don't need the moratorum to continue to work on the ordinance.

[1:20:14] Um, the planning commission has their orders, their marching orders. They're

[1:20:18] going to talk about it at every meeting that we have until it's where we want

[1:20:23] it. Um, I don't think this is going to be a long drawn out process. Okay. Um, I

[1:20:28] think it'll be um I I'm just really pleased that how I

[1:20:35] watched the whole planning commission or we did went full circle on this and just

[1:20:39] really dove into it. >> Great.

[1:20:41] » Um, so, uh, great feedback. So, what I would like to propose probably is, um,

[1:20:48] I'm not sure we still need to, um, extend the moratorum. We, we've got a

[1:20:52] direction. We know where we're going. Um there's a couple things that came out of

[1:20:57] this. Number one, yeah, we needed to update some of the things in the

[1:21:01] language in here. Um number two is we do need to do a survey, a new survey with

[1:21:07] our residents because it's been a while. So, we should have that done. Um not

[1:21:12] now, but down how do you think we've changed or remedied that concern? Well,

[1:21:18] I I can give you one answer is that we have a building that had was it 160,000

[1:21:25] feet and the Toddman family was keeping their family office there with 20,000 or

[1:21:30] something in an empty building. We have one person who's buying it and filling

[1:21:34] the building up. My guest right now and we have the cajian building which is now

[1:21:40] going to have a second tenant and there was at 190 or 200,000 ft. They're 50%

[1:21:47] filled from not zero in the last six months. My sense is there is a number of

[1:21:54] corporate entities. They're going to fill the buildings up here inevitably.

[1:21:58] I'm not excited about it because I think that there's some using some vacant land

[1:22:03] there could make it its own downtown, but we're not going to get there now.

[1:22:07] Those buildings are going to fill up again. So that tells me that Woodward

[1:22:12] should not be having any office if we can avoid it and we should make it down

[1:22:16] zone that change. We're too late to stop it unless the person who bought the

[1:22:22] restaurant decides he wants to put it to more than just purely office use which

[1:22:26] he can do and you know that will be his decision. We've only got one other major

[1:22:32] parcel available and that's the first store which is just it's just a debacle.

[1:22:38] what's happened from the beginning there. Someone paid too much money for

[1:22:42] it and sometimes you lose money. I mean, as a person who invests, I can tell you

[1:22:47] you lose money a lot. And I think there's one last really nice piece of

[1:22:51] property. We've got to figure out how to access the two and a half acres that's

[1:22:55] south of Long Lake behind the buildings there that I always saw was purely flood

[1:23:00] plane. And and and I think that, you know, I don't know if Saka owns that

[1:23:05] office building there. I don't know who owns the office buildings. Um, two of

[1:23:09] them right on Long Lake and and behind there there's a huge attractive vacant

[1:23:14] land that we should put some good use to uh and and we should make it really

[1:23:19] attractive. I don't give >> that parking lot back there during the

[1:23:23] day though. >> Behind it there's another

[1:23:26] » there's another one. >> There's another acreage back there. He

[1:23:29] probably needs access along. >> There's no access right now to that,

[1:23:33] » right? And that's the problem. And it would just it'd be I mean if we had the

[1:23:38] right access point in there, it would make it attractive for someone

[1:23:44] with some kind of tax rebonding or some type of tax break when they develop to

[1:23:49] do something because we don't have a downtown. I'm going to leave the meeting

[1:23:53] without my wife here and without dinner and I'm in deep trouble. That means I

[1:23:57] got to have two of those diet ice creams tonight for my dinner. And and we have

[1:24:01] nowhere else to go in this town. And in the morning, you're going to a bagel

[1:24:05] place when when you know other people going downtown go to go to the place on

[1:24:09] Maple. That nice that nice coffee house there that's that's off at Maple and

[1:24:14] Cranbrook if you've been in there. And they've got the barber shop on the

[1:24:17] second floor. I mean, that's the kind of use I'd like to see on Woodward Avenue.

[1:24:21] And we are going to have to figure out how to do some tax benefits if it's

[1:24:26] kosher and we can get away with it and and make do those developments.

[1:24:32] I'm not unhappy that I pushed for a moratorum because we really didn't give

[1:24:36] thought about where we're going with the city here.

[1:24:40] » Yeah. Comments.

[1:24:46] » Nothing to I mean I agree a lot with >> if you disagree with me with what you're

[1:24:52] saying. >> Probably wondering where I am on tax

[1:24:54] incentives. I think there's a need for some different uses in the city and um

[1:24:58] we want to promote that as much as possible and I think that we can we can

[1:25:03] get through that like you said without the moratorum. Um

[1:25:09] the moratorum no matter what is just a temporary

[1:25:13] » uh slowdown or stop stoppage and that that only lasts for so long. So this

[1:25:18] process of updating the you know our focus and what we want to see developed

[1:25:24] in the city is going to take considerable amount of time. I would

[1:25:28] think as you mentioned it, it gets done at the end of these meetings and

[1:25:33] » yeah, >> it's it's hard to uh

[1:25:37] » I I would say though um the only thing I don't agree with on yours is and and I

[1:25:42] and um we we we've talked about it, but you know to put another I'm

[1:25:51] to put another office building on Woodward. I literally everybody I say

[1:25:56] that to drops their head. >> It's it's

[1:26:00] » they just sit there and they just go. >> So I think it's time that we modernize

[1:26:05] the city. I like that word. >> Yeah. But I I just don't know how you're

[1:26:08] going to encourage a coffee shop. I mean that I would love that and I agree with

[1:26:13] all of you that we need diversity. I'm just not sure. I don't think the

[1:26:16] moratorum was helping but we didn't do anything during the mortorium to help.

[1:26:21] That is my concern. We gave thought about where we want to go with our city

[1:26:25] which we haven't given thought to for 30 years

[1:26:26] » which is very good. I agree. >> That's that's the thing we just never

[1:26:30] had really we really needed the shot to the head.

[1:26:33] » Yeah. >> So I know and you know the other thing

[1:26:37] is my last comment is um >> and I'll get into this with another

[1:26:41] thing is you know it's difficult to change but sometimes change is good.

[1:26:46] it's needed in a city. And um I just think that this uh I I' I'd like us to

[1:26:53] be a little bit of a a commission, planning, zoning, city commission that

[1:26:59] we're commissioners that are committed to really changing our or looking at our

[1:27:04] city and seeing what we need >> adapting.

[1:27:08] We need to moderate. I agree. So with that um do we need a um motion to to

[1:27:16] because mortorium ends today or just nothing we let it go.

[1:27:21] » Unless anybody has any other feelings. >> Are you guys okay with that?

[1:27:26] » Okay. All right. Thank you for listening to my and sorry about the vagueness. I

[1:27:30] didn't know how to put it on the >> I appreciate that.

[1:27:34] » I didn't know how to put it on the agenda. So I really appreciate that. Um

[1:27:38] okay. Next item on the agenda is the commission will hear the city manager

[1:27:42] comments. >> Mayor had a couple things. Uh first of

[1:27:45] all, I'm not sure if anybody's put on their calendar yet, but September 20th

[1:27:50] is the uh open house. >> Oh, good.

[1:27:53] » And I know that the chief has wrapped a car in in uh in recognition of the

[1:27:59] country's 250th birthday. >> Oh, I love that.

[1:28:03] » Great. >> It's getting done right now, I think. Um

[1:28:05] I >> we're going to keep it

[1:28:07] » uh for at least a year. at least a year. It uh contains part of the um

[1:28:13] constitution on it, American flag 250, the anniversary of our country.

[1:28:19] » That's great. >> I love that. Hats off to that idea.

[1:28:23] » So, I know Commissioner Fischer wanted some celebration with with that. So,

[1:28:27] we're trying to make make that happen. >> That's great. Great. Um, another thing

[1:28:33] also that Amy and I were talking about is this could be a good opportunity for

[1:28:37] a newsletter. There's a few items out there that are might be interesting to

[1:28:41] our residents. One is the Woodward closure.

[1:28:44] Uh, we have the Chesterfield Bridge project that's going to be hopefully

[1:28:48] done in maybe a few weeks. But, um, also uh, we think it's important that

[1:28:54] residents understand about the library millage that's going to come up in

[1:28:58] November. So maybe might we might uh not make it in time for the Chesterfield. It

[1:29:02] might be done. But uh certainly the Wood Wood Woodward closure is going to be a

[1:29:06] point of interest for our residents and also library millillage.

[1:29:09] » When does the closure start officially? What date do they have a date? I know it

[1:29:13] was after the dream cruise, but I didn't.

[1:29:16] » I don't know. I can find out. >> Three months.

[1:29:20] » Uh when's that start, Lauren? >> The Woodward closure.

[1:29:24] » That's what I was asking him. when they're closing Woodward. They said it

[1:29:27] was after the dream cruise, but they didn't give us a date.

[1:29:30] » They didn't give us a date. >> Okay.

[1:29:34] » Where the equipment is out to last.

[1:29:39] » Okay. Chesterfield's open. >> Good.

[1:29:43] » So cool. >> Well, I still remember

[1:29:45] » about how you like Chester. >> Yeah.

[1:29:47] » Think it ahead. >> How long ago was that, Jamie? I can

[1:29:51] still I can still remember you bringing No way. and put it out and then we got a

[1:29:56] grant and we had to wait and >> grant Yeah, it took a while to grant

[1:30:02] » Okay. Anything else? What looks nice?

[1:30:08] » It was open to traffic today. So, >> we have uh some concerns of residents

[1:30:14] and uh actually Jamie and I went out last week to talk and some residents

[1:30:18] that live right on Chesterville right there and and accommodated them. So, I

[1:30:23] think we're keeping people happy as much as possible.

[1:30:28] » Okay. Um, next one is the commission will consider other businesses. I have

[1:30:33] like three on my um >> I have one as well.

[1:30:37] » So, do you go ahead? >> Uh, I would like to propose that we

[1:30:41] impose a higher bond for new construction

[1:30:45] uh for any homes being built where the new road chip seal is. And I would I

[1:30:53] just want to ask the city if you know um a couple things like

[1:30:58] what is the repair cost because we have a bond in place for a hard road

[1:31:04] um replacement cost. We know what that is and and these huge construction

[1:31:10] vehicles do not do the same kind of damage that they will do to this chip

[1:31:15] seal. So, um, if you could help us find out what the average and maximum repair

[1:31:20] bill is per house being built and, um, if the estimated cost to repair 100 ft

[1:31:28] to 500 ft, you know, one lane of chip sealed road, I mean, it would just be

[1:31:33] and then we could come up with this with the amount of the bond needed. And I

[1:31:39] don't know, you probably can't get the chip seal repaired and give them the

[1:31:43] bill and know how much of the bond that you can return to the resident, but it

[1:31:47] just seems there has to be other cities do this too. Um, Marine City, Michigan

[1:31:53] requires cash construction of 5% of the estimated project cost or $1,000,

[1:31:59] whichever is greater, to cover the damage resulting from construction

[1:32:02] activity. Um, Gitselli uses essentially the same formula. um

[1:32:09] 5% of the project costs or $1,000 whichever is greater which is you know

[1:32:14] if it's a $3 million home that's that's a huge bond. I don't think we want to do

[1:32:18] five I don't know >> construction costs are

[1:32:21] » um Madison Height has a construction bond 5%. So I think I think it's

[1:32:27] something we should put in place before your beautiful new roads are completely

[1:32:32] trashed by all these >> Well, we do we do have uh So, the

[1:32:37] construction bond is different from the road bond. We do have a road bond which

[1:32:41] we charge $10,000 for all asphalt roads. And um we actually went through an

[1:32:47] exercise uh uh there's a house on Canterbury that damaged the road,

[1:32:52] damaged the chip seal. And uh Jamie, you can you can uh you can correct me, but

[1:32:59] interestingly enough, that the cor the cost to repair the chip seal is a lot

[1:33:03] less than the uh per square foot. A lot less than the um asphalt roads. It just

[1:33:11] it just is because asphalt roads we have to have to cut it out and compact it and

[1:33:17] put it all back where this uh house on on one of the roads in Trobridge

[1:33:22] subdivision. Uh we had to we had to put asphalt uh shore up some of the areas

[1:33:27] with ashvalt because of the heavy trucks and then we did the chip seal but we

[1:33:32] charged them for that. Um, but didn't end up being uh it probably I think the

[1:33:37] the cost was maybe $78,000, but we had a $10,000 road bond, so we were fine.

[1:33:43] » I I think you're spot on. I think the difference is it's hard to find cheap

[1:33:47] sealers. It's easy to find asphalt repair people. So, usually we're not the

[1:33:50] ones doing the work on the asphalt. We're just making sure it gets done

[1:33:53] right, inspected. So, as long as everyone's comfortable with fact that we

[1:34:00] you have to we had to go contract that out, right, for the chip seal

[1:34:05] or did they do it? >> Scott, did we uh So,

[1:34:10] » what happened with that Canterbury house?

[1:34:11] » I think,

[1:34:16] » but the the How did we recoup that cost?

[1:34:23] So, we took the money out of the money that we owed them and it just it's less

[1:34:29] usually than >> Well, that's not what I mean. All these

[1:34:31] other cities are are charging more. they're 25,000, you know, like I I'm

[1:34:37] just suggesting that construction on the recently, you know, completed chip

[1:34:42] sealed roads be 15,000 to $25,000 instead of I know you're saying it's

[1:34:48] less, but that that's not counting the whole rest of the road that it goes on

[1:34:51] and it ruins on its way. And you're not even in the rainy season yet.

[1:34:55] » You know, that is tough. It was tough with that uh talking with that resident,

[1:34:59] too, because >> it's not just the parking.

[1:35:02] » It's hard. You're right. It was just hard to, you know, he was, this

[1:35:06] gentleman was, you know, I can't be responsible for all this, all these

[1:35:09] holes on the different rows and that, but

[1:35:12] he probably was partially responsible. I just say just increase it for everybody.

[1:35:16] » Yeah. >> You mean asphalt as well as ship seal?

[1:35:19] » Look, nothing's that 10 grand was what, eight, six, seven, eight years ago we

[1:35:24] started that maybe six years ago. >> It was interesting when we

[1:35:27] This is not everybody's on the commission, but interestingly enough, I

[1:35:31] came to the commission to asked for this and asked for a big and I got push back

[1:35:35] that we lower it. Do you remember that Jamie?

[1:35:37] » So I'm glad that you're seeing it the other way now because we agree we would

[1:35:40] we would we would like to be more careful and and uh and have that money

[1:35:44] available. Uh so thank you. Um and then I think we're just going to go through

[1:35:50] go through different neighborhoods. >> So like you have the road map of yellow,

[1:35:54] red, green kind of thing. >> Yeah, we have Yeah. you know, uh, yes,

[1:35:58] where where all the signs are and where, uh, he he believes that these should be

[1:36:03] some of the first areas to replace. And so I have to, uh, matter of fact, I just

[1:36:07] talked to Commissioner Baxter about it to utilize the the folks that he was

[1:36:12] working with and he put together that wood sign. So, uh, my plan is to

[1:36:20] take that as the second step to start putting some of these wood signs into

[1:36:23] place. And then will you replace the green and

[1:36:26] white signs on Woodward with the black and gold?

[1:36:29] » Yes. >> Oh, good.

[1:36:31] » Yes. Yes. >> I don't think we're going to some some

[1:36:35] of some residents were asking to have Woodward on there also. I don't think

[1:36:37] that makes any sense because I think they know where they're at. But anyways,

[1:36:42] uh so we're just going to just the street name.

[1:36:48] » So, and I I have the So, I have all the particulars, all the approvals.

[1:36:53] And if you have any recommendations where you see some signs in the in the

[1:36:57] neighborhoods, which I think we're going to replace the signs in the

[1:37:00] neighborhoods with the wood signs. >> Yes.

[1:37:02] » Tell me what you think uh should be first or whatever. We have an idea where

[1:37:06] where we believe we should go. >> Um I'm just I was just going to sort of

[1:37:09] follow what Jamie was recommending, but if you have any recommendations, we'd be

[1:37:13] happy to do whatever you want. Well, we're driving around the city. You can

[1:37:16] know I I'm I'm in my head I'm seeing a couple of them, but I can't think of the

[1:37:20] name of the road, you know, that were really dilapidated. And so, we'll give

[1:37:24] you pass those on. Okay. >> Could you just send us an email of which

[1:37:27] neighborhoods you're going after at a time?

[1:37:29] » Yes, >> that'd be great. Thanks.

[1:37:32] » Um, okay. Anybody else have any other business questions? If not, can I motion

[1:37:37] to adjurnn?

[1:37:40] » Okay. Thank you.

Bloomfield Hills Commission Meeting on August 11, 2026

Transcript