[2:31] All right. Uh, welcome back everyone.

[2:33] Thanks for joining us tonight. Uh,

[2:35] council's returning our first, uh,

[2:37] meeting since we had our summer break.

[2:39] So, thank you for being here tonight.

[2:41] Uh, council, everyone's here except for

[2:43] Cheryl Dean Dehaney. Councelor Dehaney

[2:45] is going to join us virtually. She's

[2:46] under the weather, so she with us then.

[2:49] So I'll call the meeting to order at

[2:50] 7:01 and I'll read a land

[2:53] acknowledgement. As vis on this land,

[2:54] the town of Bradford acknowledges that

[2:56] the land on which we gather today is the

[2:58] traditional territory of the Ishnabek

[3:00] nation which includes Ojiway, Odawa and

[3:02] Pawami nation collecting known as three

[3:04] fires confederacy. We recognize the

[3:06] Hernand Chippoa and Hodeni nations have

[3:09] walked on this territory over time in

[3:11] times of great change. We recognize more

[3:13] than ever the importance of honoring

[3:14] indigenous history and culture and are

[3:16] committed to moving forward the spirit

[3:17] of reconciliation, respect, and good

[3:19] health with all First Nation, Matei, and

[3:21] Inuit people.

[3:23] Okay, we're on to number two. We've got

[3:26] uh recommendation that the regular

[3:28] council committee whole agenda dated

[3:29] August 5th, 2025 be adopted as amended.

[3:33] Move second. Moved by councelor Dyke,

[3:35] seconded by councelor Question,

[3:37] concerns?

[3:39] Seeing none, all in favor?

[3:41] Thank you

[3:43] declaration pecular interest in the

[3:44] general nature you declare it now or if

[3:46] you find when you get to an issue if you

[3:48] find yourself in that position you can

[3:50] declare then seeing none right now we'll

[3:53] move on then so we're going to move to

[3:55] number four and tonight we have a

[3:57] special presentation I'll just read the

[3:59] bio right now and then I'll call the

[4:01] gentleman up so Art J citizen of the

[4:05] year Art J was devoted has devoted his

[4:08] life to preserving history and improving

[4:09] the infrastructure of Bradford

[4:11] through published works, archival uh

[4:13] archival efforts, and decades of public

[4:15] service. His leadership and dedication

[4:17] has left a legacy, making him a true

[4:19] exceptional citizen of the year. A

[4:21] lifelong contributor to Bradford

[4:23] Glumbry, Art has preserved and promoted

[4:25] the region's history through three

[4:26] published books, the creation of the

[4:28] Holland Marsh Centennial Calendar, and

[4:31] the archiving of nearly a century's

[4:32] worth of records, and over 6,000

[4:35] historical photos. Art's legacy also

[4:37] includes decades of public service

[4:40] serving as counselor, chief building

[4:42] official, and project manager for key

[4:44] infrastructure projects, including the

[4:46] life-saving relocation of the North

[4:47] Canal. He is a founding member and past

[4:50] president of Drainage Superintendent

[4:52] Association of Ontario and continues to

[4:54] share his knowledge as a speaker and

[4:56] community advocate. Art Jans's passion,

[4:59] leadership, and dedication has left a

[5:00] lasting mark on Bradro Glumbry, making

[5:03] him truly an exceptional citizen of the

[5:05] year. So congratulations Mr. Jance.

[5:20] » Thank you for coming tonight.

[6:08] [Applause]

[6:20] Thank you very much.

[6:30] I should I think

[6:58] so.

[7:13] [Applause]

[7:28] Thank you, sir.

[7:58] All right, council. We're uh thank you

[8:00] everyone for allowing us that

[8:01] opportunity to share that uh citizen of

[8:04] the year award with Mr. Art Jance.

[8:07] Okay, we're on to deputations. There is

[8:08] none. We're at six. It's open form and I

[8:13] have right now I have one person signed

[8:15] up for open form and we have a written

[8:17] comment from form. So we'll start with

[8:20] uh Linda Usher

[8:22] from Bonhead. Come on up. It's in the

[8:24] Bonhead district. Von Head Heritage

[8:26] District topic

[8:41] and when you're ready, just hit the big

[8:42] purple button.

[8:45] >> Just Just put Nope. Push it. It's on

[8:48] » Just Just put Nope. Push it. It's on

[8:48] now.

[8:49] >> Thank you.

[8:58] Good evening, Mayor Leuk and council

[9:01] members. My name is Linda Usher and I am

[9:04] here to address item 94, Bond Head

[9:07] Heritage District on your council

[9:09] agenda. Being a resident of this

[9:11] fabulous community for over 50 years, I

[9:14] sincerely hope that council will approve

[9:17] of this motion as it has been several

[9:19] years in the development. There are many

[9:22] reasons to support this declaration. The

[9:25] famous suns associated with Bondad being

[9:28] one of the oldest hamlets in Simco

[9:30] County, the heritage buildings, special

[9:33] events and celebrations and public book

[9:36] publications.

[9:38] First four historians are Sir Francis

[9:41] Bondhead, sixth lieutenant governor of

[9:43] Upper Canada and a local resident named

[9:46] the hamlet after him in his honor after

[9:49] the rebellion of 1837.

[9:52] It was originally called Rags Corners,

[9:54] named after the first settler who

[9:56] arrived in 1829.

[9:59] Sir William Mu, Postmaster General of

[10:01] Canada. The Honorable Earl Row,

[10:04] Lieutenant Governor of Toronto and Chief

[10:06] Justice of Ontario and Vice Chancellor

[10:09] of the University of Toronto. He is

[10:11] actually a resident of Newton Robinson,

[10:13] but that is a very close neighbor to us.

[10:16] Sir William Oler, founder of modern

[10:19] diagnostic medicine. He is recognized

[10:22] internationally throughout the world. He

[10:25] has buildings named after him in various

[10:27] countries and we've even had people come

[10:30] from dist great distances to visit his

[10:32] memorial plaque on line 7. In 2012 it

[10:37] was declared one of the oldest hamlets

[10:39] in Simco County. And for that special

[10:42] recognition, a group of five volunteers,

[10:45] Pat Cranston, Bev Ferguson, Barry James,

[10:49] Mickey Nanowski, and myself as the

[10:51] chairperson put on a 3day festival in

[10:55] June to recognize our 175th anniversary

[10:59] of this hamlet. All three levels of

[11:02] government supported this special event.

[11:04] And what an event it was. heritage

[11:07] building walking tour. A span special

[11:09] banner, the first banner for our hamlet

[11:11] by the way, on the lamp post. A bond

[11:14] head stamp.

[11:16] I don't know whether you're aware of

[11:17] that or not, but we actually have a

[11:20] stamp that was published that year. Um,

[11:25] sorry. A dignitaries came, lots of

[11:28] activities and entertainment and even a

[11:30] professor heaven Hutchkins came all the

[11:32] way from British Columbia and an

[11:35] interfaith community service on Sunday

[11:37] made it possible for a donation for the

[11:39] Bradford Food Bank and Matthews House

[11:41] Hospice. Also, it was the first

[11:44] development of the Heritage plaques. Um,

[11:47] I understand that was in the newspaper

[11:49] recently and I do believe we had the

[11:51] first ones. There's that banner, by the

[11:53] way, in case you haven't seen it. It was

[11:56] in Bond Head and this was a stamp what

[11:59] it looked like. Okay. And um as I said,

[12:04] plaques were on the houses. You still

[12:06] see them there on the houses in Bond

[12:08] Head as well. The volunteer um committee

[12:12] organized the Oler bench uh dedication

[12:15] and a Bond Head bench and ginkle tree

[12:17] dedication and an old-fashioned picnic.

[12:21] Also there was a book entitled

[12:23] History of Bond Head Area 175 years.

[12:27] First printing was in 2020.

[12:30] This was uh headed by Vera Stewart and

[12:33] volunt sorry Vera Stoddard and uh they

[12:36] had volunteers that helped her. I was

[12:38] one of them. Another smaller book was

[12:41] entitled, and I know I have it here

[12:43] somewhere, but I'll find it. Um, about

[12:45] the plaque about the um old um plank

[12:49] road. It seemed to have misplaced it,

[12:51] I'm sorry. But it talked about the fact

[12:53] that I think we had the first plank road

[12:55] in Ontario just outside of Bonhead

[12:58] leading into Bradford.

[13:01] That was published in 1984.

[13:04] Also, were you aware that Bon Head held

[13:07] the first Santa Claus parade in the area

[13:10] of Bradford, Tottenham, Beaton, and

[13:12] Alist 50 years ago. And as well, there's

[13:16] a Bondhead song written and music by Joe

[13:19] Papino in 1974.

[13:22] And finally, most important are the

[13:24] heritage buildings with two that are are

[13:27] uh proincially designated and I believe

[13:30] there's 17 on the BWG registry. There

[13:35] may be others as there are 40 who are

[13:37] considered 100 years old and several 150

[13:41] years old in this community. The Hamlet

[13:44] of Bondhead is a remarkable survivor

[13:47] being 188 years old this year. I hope

[13:51] that the extensive research over the

[13:53] past several years recommends this

[13:55] designation and BW council proceeds with

[13:59] the needed bylaw to declare the heritage

[14:02] conservation district. Definitely Bond

[14:05] Head is a historical heritage gym within

[14:08] the town of BWG. It needs to be

[14:11] preserved, protected, its heritage, its

[14:14] history and identity. Thank you.

[14:19] >> Oh, thank you, Linda, for that. a

[14:21] » Oh, thank you, Linda, for that. a

[14:21] wonderful history lesson we had there

[14:23] and I it was perfect. It was wonderful.

[14:26] Good me. Oh, you found the book.

[14:27] >> Life on the old plank road. It um gosh

[14:30] » Life on the old plank road. It um gosh

[14:30] it was put out by the Toson West

[14:33] Willberry Historic Historical Society

[14:36] 1984.

[14:39] » Were we the first toll road in Ontario?

[14:42] >> I think it was if I correctly. Yes. The

[14:45] » I think it was if I correctly. Yes. The

[14:45] history says the first road

[14:47] >> and I think it went all the way to um

[14:50] » and I think it went all the way to um

[14:50] >> uh they're saying I think all the way to

[14:53] » uh they're saying I think all the way to

[14:53] just out Bradford.

[14:54] >> Yeah.

[14:55] » Yeah.

[14:55] >> Yeah.

[14:56] » Yeah.

[14:56] >> Yeah. Great history there.

[14:58] » Yeah. Great history there.

[14:58] >> So we're dealing with that later on our

[15:00] » So we're dealing with that later on our

[15:00] agenda and if you're around and if

[15:02] council has any questions or whatever

[15:03] they'd like to ask this she's such an

[15:05] expert in Bonhead that we would more

[15:07] than welcome you up if you would uh have

[15:09] any questions.

[15:10] >> The people you had looking after that

[15:11] » The people you had looking after that

[15:11] did great research. had a lot of

[15:13] meetings and they even had a walkabout

[15:15] as well that I took part in.

[15:17] >> There's a great report coming to our

[15:19] » There's a great report coming to our

[15:19] council on 9.4 and we look forward to

[15:21] that. So, thank you, Linda, for that.

[15:23] Appreciate that very much. And then we

[15:26] have a written submission. So, I'll have

[15:28] the clerk read that.

[15:33] » Yeah, we've received a written submit

[15:35] submission submit

[15:38] written submission from Brent Felman.

[15:41] So, I'll read that on his behalf. My

[15:43] name is Brent Felman. I think of mo most

[15:45] of you know me. I would have come in

[15:46] person, but it is my son's birthday and

[15:48] family comes before politics. Digital

[15:51] voting may be convenient, but it's not

[15:52] trustworthy or transparent. Canadians

[15:54] are increasingly losing confidence in

[15:56] our democratic processes, and continuing

[15:59] to use blackbox systems without a paper

[16:01] trail only fuels that distrust. A 2023

[16:04] ledger poll found that just 43% of

[16:07] Canadians trust elections, a sharp drop

[16:09] from 58% the year before.

[16:12] In 2018, 51 Ontario municipalities using

[16:15] Dominion voting systems suffered major

[16:18] disruptions when a bandwidth cap locked

[16:20] voters out of online voting. Canada has

[16:22] seen serious cyber security failures,

[16:24] including 11,000 plus CRA accounts

[16:27] hacked in 2020. Global Affairs Canada

[16:30] cyber attack in 2022. major hospital and

[16:33] RCMP systems targeted. If our federal

[16:36] and provincial systems aren't secure,

[16:38] how can we expect municipal digital

[16:40] elections to be online voting also

[16:43] removes public transparency? With paper

[16:45] ballots, scrutiners and candidates can

[16:47] observe the process. With digital

[16:49] voting, the system counts itself, and

[16:50] there's no way for the average voter to

[16:52] verify their vote was counted correctly.

[16:54] Council, you have the power to restore

[16:56] public confidence. Please say no to

[16:58] online and telephone voting. Bring back

[17:00] paper ballots. the gold standard of

[17:03] transparent verifiable elections.

[17:05] Respectfully, Brent Felman.

[17:08] >> All right. Thank you for that. That's uh

[17:10] » All right. Thank you for that. That's uh

[17:10] dealing with we'll be dealing with that

[17:12] later on at 9.8 in our agenda. And

[17:15] there's no further open form

[17:17] submissions.

[17:20] Okay. So, we're on to uh seven, adoption

[17:22] of the minutes and committee hold

[17:24] recommendations. So I have 7.1

[17:26] recommendation that the minutes of the

[17:27] regular council meeting dated June 17

[17:29] 2025 be adopted as printed moving a

[17:31] second please by deputy mayor seconded

[17:34] by councelor farini question concerns

[17:38] councelor Scott thanks m just a quick

[17:41] one to the cio we referred the line 8

[17:44] report and the delegation of authority

[17:46] bylaw report but we didn't specify in

[17:49] the motion when we wanted them to come

[17:50] back I think we said as quickly as

[17:52] possible but would we be able to confirm

[17:54] a timeline on those, please.

[18:01] » Thank you. Uh we expect to have both of

[18:02] those reports in front of council in

[18:04] September.

[18:08] Okay. Any further questions, comments

[18:10] with the minutes? Seeing none, all in

[18:12] favor?

[18:14] Carrie. Thank you. 7.2 adoption of

[18:17] special council minutes. Recommendation

[18:18] of the minutes of the special meeting of

[18:19] council dated July 2nd, 2025 be adopted

[18:22] as printed. Move a second, please.

[18:24] Councelor Scott, second by councelor

[18:26] Dyke. Question or concerns with these

[18:28] minutes?

[18:30] Seeing none, all in favor? Carried.

[18:32] Thank you. We're into correspondence. We

[18:35] have uh two items on correspondence. We

[18:36] have 8.1, the integrity commissioner

[18:38] periodic report 2025. So, the

[18:41] recommendation that council receive the

[18:42] 2025 integrity commissioners periodic

[18:44] report for information. I move second on

[18:47] the floor by councelor Dyke, councelor

[18:50] Bkite, seconded by councelor Harper.

[18:52] questions, concerns with the report.

[18:56] Oh, okay. Councelor Scott and Councelor

[18:58] Harper.

[19:00] >> Thank you again. I I'll just comment. I

[19:01] » Thank you again. I I'll just comment. I

[19:02] didn't want this to go unnoticed. Uh

[19:04] first, thank you to our integrity

[19:06] commissioners for this thoughtful

[19:07] update. We've had conversations several

[19:11] times both in public and in private

[19:12] around what they're raising in the

[19:15] report. And I think it's worth just

[19:17] dwelling on the fact that we have the

[19:18] integrity commissioner formally

[19:20] reminding us of what is expected of the

[19:22] mayor and what's expected of council.

[19:24] Tone at the top really matters and

[19:26] respect isn't just a word that we teach

[19:28] children in school. It's how we're

[19:29] expected to operate in a professional

[19:31] workplace. This isn't about politics.

[19:33] It's about setting standards. And the

[19:35] public deserves a council that leads by

[19:37] example, that listens, respects

[19:39] boundaries, and models the kind of

[19:41] conduct we want to see throughout the

[19:43] organization. So our job notwithstanding

[19:46] so-called strong mayor powers is to set

[19:48] the strategic direction and provide

[19:50] oversight and we work collaboratively

[19:52] with each other and with our staff to do

[19:54] that. So it's important that staff know

[19:56] that there to give frank advice and

[19:58] loyal implementation as the saying goes

[20:00] and that council's got to respect that

[20:02] frank advice and has to expect the loyal

[20:05] implementation. We employ you to be

[20:08] experts and we need to hear your advice.

[20:10] We're not always going to agree as a

[20:12] council and that's fine. But we can

[20:14] disagree without crossing lines. We can

[20:16] keep calm, act professionally, and when

[20:19] we are confused or unsure about

[20:21] something, we can seek guidance rather

[20:23] than getting angry, whether that's about

[20:24] a policy question or a procedural one.

[20:27] This report's timely. A year from now,

[20:29] we'll be electing a new council. But for

[20:31] the remainder of this term, staff and

[20:33] the public deserve to have confidence

[20:35] that council wants to set a good tone at

[20:36] the top, that the character of our

[20:39] elected officials matter, and that this

[20:41] is a professional workplace where

[20:42] everyone deserves to be safe and

[20:44] respected. So once again, I think the

[20:46] integrity commissioner has given us a

[20:48] timely update on what is expected of

[20:50] members of council and uh I trust the

[20:53] public will hold us accountable to those

[20:54] standards.

[20:57] >> Thank you, Councelor Harper.

[21:01] » Thank you, Councelor Harper.

[21:01] Thank you, mayor. I appreciate the

[21:03] report from integrity commissioner on

[21:05] this uh from principles integrity. Uh I

[21:08] I understand the aim that was to promote

[21:10] ethical behavior in municipal government

[21:12] uh raise public trust in in elected

[21:15] officials and encourage accountability,

[21:17] transparency, and respect within the

[21:19] council and local boards. I took a

[21:22] little bit uh of confusing

[21:26] um remarks from it when they failed to

[21:28] actually

[21:30] report more transparency in regards to

[21:33] the amount they gave us the amount of

[21:35] conduct or or amount of investigations.

[21:38] And while I understand the positive and

[21:40] fostering respect and professionalism to

[21:43] try to make ethical governance uh whole

[21:47] in regards to informal processes and

[21:49] that's fine, but I believe it lacks a

[21:51] little bit of transparency and and hard

[21:54] performance data that the public

[21:56] deserves to know. If the if the

[21:58] objective is to informally resolve most

[22:01] things and that's their goal as it says

[22:03] in the report, I understand that

[22:05] direction and that's okay if it can

[22:07] formally resolve. But the matters of

[22:10] what types of occurrences and maybe

[22:12] that's reflective in the type of

[22:14] material that's being transparent to us

[22:15] in regards to what they would like to

[22:17] portray in the in the the messaging, but

[22:21] without fully being transparent, it it

[22:24] certainly I I would think some would

[22:27] take it as like a lack of transparency

[22:29] and I would hope that they could come

[22:31] back and give us a little bit more

[22:33] detail the data and the transparency of

[22:35] what happens. um the the particular

[22:39] details don't matter, but it's about

[22:41] outlining the types of like things that

[22:42] they did solve.

[22:44] So, I'll just leave it at that.

[22:48] Okay. Thank you, Councini.

[22:53] Thank you. Um

[22:56] so, this is this has been my third term

[22:59] on council and I'll be honest that I was

[23:01] kind of disappointed when I read this

[23:03] report uh that they put forward.

[23:06] Councelor Scott hit on quite a few

[23:08] things and he and he put it nicely. When

[23:11] I read this, I almost felt like it was

[23:14] um it was like a parent scolding a child

[23:17] when this came forward to me because it

[23:20] was reminding council to play nice in

[23:24] the sandbox with everybody. Working

[23:25] together. We're here as a group and

[23:26] we're supposed to work together. We can

[23:28] we can um disagree. That's what it's all

[23:31] about. We can debate. It's all it's all

[23:33] about. But when it goes that step

[23:35] further, it's not right. And that's not

[23:37] what council is about. Uh there was a

[23:40] section about non-disparagement and it

[23:42] had to remind council that it's healthy

[23:45] to debate and disagree, but it's a

[23:47] reminder not to attack other members of

[23:49] council and name call. Uh there was a

[23:52] section about social media posts and a

[23:54] reminder about non-disparagement on

[23:56] there to call out members of council

[23:58] because it could be and would be

[23:59] recorded.

[24:01] Uh one of the other areas uh of concern

[24:04] that continue to arise relates to

[24:05] members of councils overstepping their

[24:07] role attempting to take the reigns or

[24:09] fix a constituent's problem or directing

[24:11] staff how to do their job. So the

[24:13] elected officials our job as a council

[24:16] and we had to be reminded in this is

[24:19] that we don't have role we don't have a

[24:21] role in the daytoday administration of

[24:24] municipal government government unless

[24:27] we're specifically authorized by the

[24:28] stat the statute. So when residents come

[24:32] to us obviously we are to be the voice

[24:35] and we are to bring those forward and

[24:36] tell and ask staff or tell staff here's

[24:39] a concern where can we look at this and

[24:40] staff bring us their professional

[24:42] expertise and we can make decisions

[24:45] based on reports that are brought to us.

[24:46] We set policies similar to what

[24:48] councelor Scott was bringing up. We set

[24:49] policies and we work with the budget to

[24:51] make sure that we spend taxpayers

[24:53] dollars wisely. But that's the role of

[24:56] council. No further than that. So, it

[25:00] was kind of disappointing to me reading

[25:03] this report and having to have these

[25:05] reminders, especially coming to the end

[25:07] of our term right now. It just kind of

[25:10] it was almost like a little salt on the

[25:11] wound reading that one and I I didn't

[25:13] like it, but I appreciate that came

[25:15] forward.

[25:18] » Okay. Thank you. Maybe I'll I'll comment

[25:21] too on it. It's a it's a you know, it's

[25:23] a disturbing report in a sense. We have

[25:25] I've never seen this many uh reports IC

[25:28] IC reports before. I've been here five

[25:30] terms now and this is the most I've ever

[25:31] seen for this council and Bradford

[25:33] McGomery. So, um but I will say that,

[25:36] you know, we we've had our differences

[25:37] at council and that's fine. It's it's

[25:39] okay to have those differences and not

[25:41] uh not agree with everybody at the same

[25:42] time. That's that's fine, too. Um I can

[25:45] tell you though, there are a lot of

[25:46] councils out there and speaking with the

[25:48] integrity commissioners, there's a lot

[25:50] of councils out there that have a lot of

[25:51] problems and we are pretty lucky to be

[25:54] the council we are because we actually

[25:56] do work very well together and we get

[25:58] things done. That's the key is getting

[25:59] things done. And so, uh, there are some

[26:02] councils out there that are in serious

[26:03] trouble. I mean, the province stepped

[26:05] into the Mathan Black River and removed

[26:07] that council, took over that one. And

[26:09] the Pickering Council has problems and

[26:11] there's all sorts of problems right

[26:12] across this country. It has gotten much

[26:15] more difficult to be a politician in

[26:17] this country. So, it's a difficult

[26:19] thing, but uh it's a great report in a

[26:21] sense that it keeps us uh it lets us

[26:22] understand some of the things we need to

[26:24] do better and uh I as a leader will do

[26:26] my best to do better and make sure that

[26:28] we uh follow the rules and make sure

[26:30] that we deliver what we need to do when

[26:31] it comes to council and serve our

[26:32] residents the best we can. So, that's my

[26:35] uh promise to everyone is to make sure I

[26:36] do a better job myself. So, okay. So, I

[26:40] have Yeah, go ahead.

[26:42] >> So, I'm glad we got to have a bit of a

[26:44] » So, I'm glad we got to have a bit of a

[26:44] discussion there. Um the mayor just said

[26:46] the key thing is getting things done. I

[26:48] agree getting things done properly is

[26:51] the next part of that sentence and it's

[26:52] equally as important and uh yes there

[26:55] are councils that have a lot of problems

[26:57] but we have to hold ourselves to a high

[26:59] standard because our our public is

[27:01] watching and so it it it doesn't satisfy

[27:04] to be know to know that we're better

[27:05] than Pickering and the problems they're

[27:06] having there.

[27:09] >> Okay. Thank you. All right. We'll uh

[27:13] » Okay. Thank you. All right. We'll uh

[27:13] call for the vote. I've got a mover or a

[27:14] second on this. So, all in favor?

[27:18] Carried. Thank you. Uh, we're on to the

[27:21] second one. The Township of Georgian Bay

[27:23] Regulation for floating accommodations.

[27:24] I have recommendation that council

[27:25] receive and support the Township of

[27:27] Georgian Bay resolution dated June 2nd

[27:29] 25 regarding the regulation of floating

[27:31] accommodations. Move a second. Please

[27:33] put this on the floor

[27:35] by councelor Scott. Second by councelor

[27:37] Harper. Questions or concerns? Councelor

[27:42] Thank you, Mayor. Can I get a point of

[27:44] clarification regards to what it's

[27:45] asking us to do in this report? There's

[27:47] two options. Uh, one is to just

[27:49] basically deny flotation and the other

[27:52] one is to support it with moorings and

[27:55] stuff. So, could I add clarification as

[27:56] to what it's asking us to confirm?

[28:02] » Yeah. So George and BA's uh their their

[28:05] recommendation is that now they're so it

[28:07] says whereas flotation accommodations

[28:08] position paper April 2025 provides

[28:11] detailed guidance to Ontario mispalities

[28:12] on the regulation of floating

[28:14] accommodations highlighted critical

[28:15] legal and environmental challenges. And

[28:17] whereas the document uh identifies

[28:19] significant gaps in current provincial

[28:21] and federal frameworks that

[28:22] municipalities are best positioned to

[28:23] address through zoning and land use

[28:25] bylaws. And whereas the paper recommends

[28:27] proactive municipal action based on

[28:30] successful case studies and legal

[28:31] precedences such as the Gillespie versus

[28:34] Ontario decision. And whereas Georgian

[28:36] Bay Township has already taken steps to

[28:38] address floating accommodations has and

[28:40] has an interest in promoting inter

[28:42] municipal collaboration on this issue.

[28:44] Now therefore be resolved that council

[28:45] receive the floating accommodation paper

[28:47] position paper May 2025 for

[28:50] informationational purposes and that the

[28:51] clerk be further directed to forward the

[28:53] document and this resolution to

[28:55] association pala and members for

[28:57] consideration of potential provincial

[28:58] advocacy.

[29:01] Yeah, go ahead.

[29:02] >> Thank you, mayor. Uh when while I read

[29:04] » Thank you, mayor. Uh when while I read

[29:04] that too, there still didn't tell us

[29:06] which one which option we want to do,

[29:08] one or two in this report. So that's why

[29:11] I'm asking for a clarification. Which

[29:13] way are we headed on this? It looks more

[29:15] like number two, which definitely

[29:16] supports uh restricted floating

[29:18] accommodations to fixed and permanent

[29:20] moorings because then those will be held

[29:22] to more collaborative bylaws, municipal

[29:25] guidelines and and municipal zoning

[29:27] bylaws as well. So, am I correct to

[29:29] assume that?

[29:30] >> I think you're correct to assume that.

[29:32] » I think you're correct to assume that.

[29:32] It's actually two. I'm sorry.

[29:34] >> Thank you.

[29:34] » Thank you.

[29:34] >> It's actually two. Uh, but it'll be at

[29:36] » It's actually two. Uh, but it'll be at

[29:36] AMO. We'll push it through AMO.

[29:38] Hopefully with councelor Dehane support

[29:40] at AMO, we'll be able to push that

[29:41] through and I think it's something that

[29:42] we all have to be aware of.

[29:44] >> Thank you. So, thank you. Okay. Further

[29:47] » Thank you. So, thank you. Okay. Further

[29:47] comments or questions? Seeing none,

[29:49] we'll call for the vote. All in favor?

[29:52] Carried. Thank you.

[29:54] Okay, we're into

[29:56] number nine staff reports 9.1. So our

[29:58] first staff report is a community

[30:00] improvement plan CIP program uh options

[30:03] EOD EDO2 2025-3 and we have a

[30:07] presentation by Jonathan Hack from Sarah

[30:09] Planning. So

[30:11] on up.

[30:21] Good evening.

[30:24] » Um,

[30:26] so we have a quick presentation and it

[30:28] uh it summarizes what was a fairly big

[30:31] and lengthy report from us as

[30:33] consultants in your package along with a

[30:35] staff report. So I'll just get straight

[30:37] into it

[30:39] if I have the technology to be able to

[30:41] do that. Next slide.

[30:44] There you go. I won't waste much time on

[30:46] what is a CIP. you've um obviously the

[30:50] this particular council has heard from

[30:52] us several times but just to go through

[30:54] that history for everyone's benefit. So

[30:57] in uh the last sort of updates were 2022

[31:00] to the programs currently on hiatus. The

[31:02] seniors housing which was a successful

[31:05] CIP is has essentially been on hiatus

[31:07] and I think now is a recommendation to

[31:09] to remove that. Um but uh since then in

[31:15] December of 2023 we came forward with

[31:17] sort of a comprehensive set of

[31:19] performance metrics how they've how

[31:21] these CIPs have performed both the

[31:23] downtown and the industrial and um and

[31:26] then um in the fall of of last year we

[31:30] had a a roundt facilitation which I

[31:34] really appreciated everyone in on

[31:35] council being able to give some of their

[31:38] opinions and I think the opinions help

[31:40] shape what we've put into the uh into

[31:43] the both the reporting that we provided

[31:46] we summarize the the book ends of of

[31:48] opinion and I think uh the programs that

[31:51] we're suggesting go forward in different

[31:53] phases uh reflect that so the CIP has

[31:56] sort of been under the microscope and

[31:58] this is the next iteration of that with

[32:00] with some recommendations before you if

[32:02] you can just go to the next slide

[32:04] please.

[32:07] Yeah. So that really summarizes all of

[32:09] the various changes uh that have been

[32:11] put in place. So you can go through to

[32:13] the next slide.

[32:16] So

[32:19] thank you. So just to you know one of

[32:22] the things we do want to we we recognize

[32:25] there is there are considerations and

[32:27] council's been very clear about it of

[32:29] how best to use for example various

[32:31] programs in effect for downtown and then

[32:33] for the industrial CIP. How can we

[32:36] change it? How can we make sure that the

[32:37] money that you are spending through the

[32:40] public purse is is is going to generate

[32:43] maximum impact. So the next couple of

[32:45] slides just give you an indication of

[32:47] you know whether there's some staying

[32:49] power some of the some of these

[32:50] programs. So irregardless of whether the

[32:53] DI the downtown CIP is bigger held in

[32:57] obeyance whatever it might be the types

[32:59] of programs that remain relevant are

[33:02] itemized there. So, facade improvement

[33:04] grant, that's the one that is the most

[33:06] visual. Uh, but there again, you're not

[33:09] in the business of essentially providing

[33:12] benefits to particular tenencies and

[33:15] leaseold improvements and using

[33:17] corporate signage. You're looking for

[33:18] improvements to the building, sand

[33:20] blasting the brick, you know, going with

[33:23] the right kind of uh guidelines

[33:26] and and so that has, as long as that's

[33:28] in place, that still has some merit. uh

[33:31] particularly for the for the older stock

[33:33] uh in town the building restoration

[33:35] renovation and improvement grant. So

[33:37] just for everyone's uh recollection that

[33:40] was a sort of a bigger budget grant that

[33:43] could be used for internal renovations

[33:45] to improve the the capability of these

[33:49] commercial buildings and could include

[33:51] some upper floor um residential

[33:53] conversions. Council has had some

[33:55] concerns over the years with how the

[33:58] money is allocated to best effect.

[34:00] You're not critiquing the particulars,

[34:02] but the idea is that you want to make

[34:04] sure that whatever money is put in goes

[34:07] to the long-term sustainability of the

[34:09] building and not uh what you generally

[34:12] call as as property owners

[34:15] responsibility for life cycle

[34:17] maintenance and all the usual things

[34:18] that we all have to have to fund. So,

[34:21] uh, that's still, as long as that is the

[34:23] case, that's that fund if it's used

[34:25] surgically can still be of some benefit.

[34:28] Planning fees and building permits,

[34:29] they're often used, you know, they don't

[34:31] have great leverage power because

[34:34] they're not huge amounts of money, but

[34:36] they are money that you have to find

[34:37] from a CIP reserve. So, they are money

[34:40] coming out of the tax base and it's

[34:43] really an opportunity to signal a

[34:46] continued open for business um, uh,

[34:49] role. So it goes alongside some of the

[34:51] other programs and strategies that the

[34:53] town is putting in place. Development

[34:55] charges are, you know, they've been

[34:57] subject to considerable legislative

[35:00] changes. So we continue to try and sort

[35:02] of play catchup. But as it relates to

[35:04] commercial, leaving housing aside for a

[35:06] moment, there's some some potential to

[35:10] be used for development charges, but

[35:12] nothing like as it was in the past as it

[35:14] relates to industrial, for example. Um,

[35:17] so that last one, development charge

[35:19] equivalent grant, we're really not using

[35:21] that anymore and not not proposing that

[35:23] for for the uh industrial CIP either.

[35:27] Uh, next slide, please.

[35:31] Some you know other matters that council

[35:34] has weighed in on and that we've we've

[35:36] got some considerations in the report

[35:38] and and the recommendations.

[35:40] Agricultural businesses, what what's the

[35:42] nature of the issue to be solved? How

[35:45] should you or um assist is there a role

[35:48] for a community improvement plan? Um the

[35:52] historic nature of properties in some of

[35:54] the urban and rural areas, particularly

[35:55] bond heads. So we've addressed that. The

[35:58] whole matter of using tax increment

[36:00] grants, try and make it as effective as

[36:02] possible. It's still tax money that is

[36:04] owed to the municipality that is granted

[36:06] back. So although it's deferred revenue,

[36:09] it needs to be looked at as that

[36:10] deferred revenue. You still have the

[36:12] cooperating costs for municipal services

[36:15] that taxes are meant to support. So if

[36:17] you're giving taxes back, it has to be

[36:19] effectively uh uh getting the the

[36:22] impacts that you want in terms of

[36:24] economic development. Then a number of

[36:26] other ones which are not on the slate

[36:28] for consideration right now, but uh in a

[36:30] if council um or even a future council

[36:33] wants to consider it, uh looking at um

[36:36] housing elements of a community

[36:38] improvement plan. Very complicated.

[36:41] again got to be very careful in terms of

[36:44] uh matching the funding to the the

[36:47] realistic outcomes that you can you can

[36:49] achieve. Uh but that there's a number of

[36:52] different uh programs that can be put in

[36:54] place there. And then you know the idea

[36:56] that in the future there is the

[36:58] opportunity to to use CIPs in a very uh

[37:01] strategic way for example to get

[37:04] particular kinds of development. Hotel

[37:06] is a good example of of that one. Next

[37:08] slide please.

[37:12] So, I won't go through too much of the

[37:14] detail here. It is covered off in the

[37:16] staffing um report, but as it relates to

[37:19] the industrial areas CIP, and I I should

[37:22] just take a moment just to to note that,

[37:26] you know, Bradford was one of the first

[37:28] to put an industrial areas CIP in place

[37:31] and it was generously funded for a

[37:34] number of years and it's been extreme.

[37:36] If you look at the metrics of money in

[37:39] versus the the leveraged amount that

[37:42] it's provided, it's been very

[37:43] successful. Um, so we wanted to

[37:47] continue. It's certainly a consultant's

[37:48] recommendation that it's got a lot of

[37:50] merit and it goes alongside the

[37:52] recommendation that we think that for a

[37:55] range of reasons but being most

[37:57] practical uh expanding the community

[38:00] improvement project area to the entirety

[38:02] of the municipality is is it's

[38:05] essentially an administrative step. Um

[38:08] I'll be happy to take any questions on

[38:10] it but what it does is allows you to for

[38:12] example look at employment wherever

[38:15] employment is happening. So, we've had

[38:17] conversations about do you or do you not

[38:19] incentivize Highway 400 lands, for

[38:22] example. And I think what we're trying

[38:24] to do here is say that um you need to

[38:28] and and council was very clear the last

[38:30] time we were here, whatever assistance

[38:32] you give to industry has to be that

[38:34] which is going to make a significant

[38:36] difference. And so, it's focusing on

[38:39] larger employers, larger floor space.

[38:42] You see on the right side of the page

[38:43] there, it should be geared to higher

[38:46] order land use in in industrial terms.

[38:49] So that's manufacturing, logistics,

[38:52] technology, the kinds of things that are

[38:54] going to end up coming out of the

[38:56] separate industrial land strategy that

[39:00] is currently underway by Averson Young.

[39:02] So this this is this is an important one

[39:04] and it's going to be using a tax

[39:06] increment grant um using the municipal

[39:09] tax uh for a for a maximum of seven

[39:12] years and at a rate of 50%. So

[39:15] potentially given the industrial tax

[39:18] rates that's a sizable uh amount. So

[39:20] there's some if council moves forward

[39:22] with moving on and Rick bringing back

[39:25] the IAIP taking it off hiatus status

[39:29] then I think there's some number

[39:30] crunching that needs to be done to just

[39:32] give council the advice of exactly what

[39:34] you might be in for in terms of foregone

[39:36] revenues because as I said tax taxes tax

[39:40] increment grants are you know they they

[39:43] look good and they are good but they're

[39:45] still public money which is being

[39:47] utilized so we have to do a very good

[39:49] job

[39:50] assessing the merit on each application.

[39:52] Next slide. Thanks.

[39:58] Thanks. For the DCIP for downtown, the

[40:00] essential um restructuring of that is to

[40:05] uh make sure and the last bullet on the

[40:07] on the left hand side, make sure

[40:09] buildings are improved with long-term

[40:12] viability as a commercial premises to

[40:14] meet all code and modern accessibility

[40:16] standards. So make it as impactful as

[40:19] possible. That's true for facade

[40:21] improvements as it is for any of the

[40:23] other programs. But try and align this

[40:26] in terms of timing with the uh potential

[40:28] the reconstruction that's happening with

[40:30] Holland Street. There are some

[40:31] opportunities to defer then until we

[40:34] have a second phase for that. Next

[40:36] slide.

[40:43] Thanks. Just continuing on, there's

[40:44] still a role for planning and building

[40:46] fee grants um to um be able to provide

[40:51] um a smaller level of assistance to

[40:54] plans for uh investment in downtown that

[40:57] do require uh planning applications to

[41:00] be made and building permits to be to be

[41:03] filed. And then the public art and mural

[41:05] grant program is really uh one where

[41:08] we're uh you know recommending continue

[41:09] it under current guidelines but updated

[41:12] and potentially incorporated into a new

[41:14] DCIP if that were to happen in the next

[41:17] year year or so. Next slide.

[41:25] I do think again this this is this is

[41:28] really um not part of the

[41:30] recommendations for this evening but

[41:31] just looking forward if you're going to

[41:34] uh if council has a wish to get into

[41:36] housing um and to look at more specific

[41:39] forms of assistance that can assist

[41:42] general um housing development. Then

[41:45] things like having an environmental site

[41:47] assessment grant can be helpful. That's

[41:48] with uh with regard to contaminated

[41:50] lands cleanup. And then of course you've

[41:53] got a range of housing uh project

[41:56] housing uh affordability measures that

[41:58] can be put in place to some degree and

[42:00] then also looking at bondhead in terms

[42:02] of commercial properties for the

[42:03] improvements there as well. On the a on

[42:05] the tourism on the agriculture side

[42:07] we've moved in the direction of really

[42:10] focus on tourism to the extent that

[42:11] there is a tourism market to be served

[42:13] as opposed to assisting general

[42:15] agricultural operations. uh because it's

[42:18] um I think that's the thin end of a very

[42:20] big uh issue and uh again if we're

[42:23] trying to do everything the CIP will be

[42:25] washed out pretty quickly. So council's

[42:27] going to have to make some choices as to

[42:29] where it focuses its attention. Next

[42:32] slide.

[42:37] Um, I'm not going to read through these,

[42:40] but there the the work that's being done

[42:42] to phase any improvements to the CIP

[42:46] both before the new council and after

[42:48] when there's a new council in place at

[42:50] the end of 2026 is all hinged upon a

[42:54] range of things that have been uh

[42:55] undertaken and are ongoing uh within the

[42:58] municipality. So, they're listed there.

[43:01] You know, we could add to that the

[43:03] heritage conservation district work

[43:05] which I know which is is upcoming this

[43:07] evening as it relates to bond head and

[43:09] the housing needs uh in particular and

[43:12] concierge program as it relates to

[43:14] focusing on the benefits of uh

[43:16] employment development.

[43:18] Next slide.

[43:24] So you you do have a staff report in in

[43:26] front of you which summarizes a lot of

[43:28] this but just to sort of

[43:31] uh consolidate everything I've been

[43:33] saying. The first there's a number of

[43:35] phases. The first of which which is to

[43:38] reactivate the industrial areas

[43:40] community improvement plan and to do so

[43:43] with council approve approval to work on

[43:46] those programs that I had outlined and

[43:49] to determine the relative size of budget

[43:51] that is required and look for any

[43:52] sources of funding that may be there to

[43:55] assist. Um the second phase which is uh

[43:59] sort of second quarter 2026 through to

[44:01] the end of the year and into 2027

[44:04] would be to reconsider the downtown

[44:06] community improvement plan based on the

[44:09] commentary that we've heard from council

[44:11] uh when we facilitate facilitated that

[44:13] session back in October of last year.

[44:16] third phase if you were to move forward

[44:18] again similar timelines would be to

[44:20] address um housing and that would

[44:23] dovetail with presumably the conclusion

[44:26] of some of the other housing strategy

[44:27] work that's being done so it's premature

[44:30] now but it's appropriate then and then

[44:32] the fourth phase I think is to uh to

[44:35] look at any potential for the

[44:37] agricultural areas and that's put there

[44:39] because in terms of our priorities we're

[44:41] clear on it we see it as a lesser

[44:43] priority than the other aspects that you

[44:45] have before you. So that is uh that is

[44:49] the plan in a nutshell. Um and uh I'd be

[44:52] happy to take any questions if I can

[44:54] hand it back to you, Mr. May. All right.

[44:57] Thank you, Mr. Hack, for that

[44:58] presentation.

[45:00] All right, council. I open the floor up

[45:01] for any questions to the presentation or

[45:03] to the ECD. We have a report that has a

[45:07] couple of options here.

[45:09] So,

[45:11] anybody want to put an option on the

[45:12] floor? Councelor Viky,

[45:14] >> I guess I'm going put to option number

[45:15] » I guess I'm going put to option number

[45:15] one. Um, I would like to see the I see

[45:19] all the benefits and I see industrial

[45:22] benefits that's taking place and I've

[45:25] seen a few benefits definitely and in

[45:28] some of the um storefronts and various

[45:31] different uh projects. But I think in

[45:33] these financial times uh until we see

[45:37] the budget for this fall, I would I

[45:39] would be very cautious. I know that you

[45:41] put money at at different things, it

[45:43] could be very beneficial, but I just uh

[45:46] you know, I just worried what with all

[45:48] the big financial capital that's needed

[45:51] uh in the future. How much can we really

[45:52] afford? So, I'm just I'm just trying to

[45:54] be uh just trying to be um um I guess

[45:58] penny penny tight in in a sense because

[46:02] there's a lot of things need to be done.

[46:04] I know that there's a lot of buildings

[46:05] accessibility

[46:07] um openings and and storefronts and

[46:10] access be behind or construction.

[46:13] There's a lot of things that will

[46:14] benefit but but I feel that until we

[46:16] look at the budget uh um to see what we

[46:19] can afford and what we can't afford.

[46:20] That's I'm just speaking myself

[46:22] personally.

[46:24] Okay. Thank you. Uh so I've got option

[46:26] one, but we'll just go around a little

[46:28] bit to see and then we'll get a sense of

[46:29] what we want. You want to second it?

[46:30] Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, I' got that's

[46:33] what you're seconding. Okay, we have a

[46:34] second for that uh on the table option

[46:36] one. So now I'll go to more comments. I

[46:39] had you had your councelor Harper first

[46:41] and I'll come across this way. Thank

[46:42] you.

[46:44] >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh I appreciate my

[46:46] » Thank you, Mayor. Uh I appreciate my

[46:46] colleagues representing option one with

[46:48] a second motion from my uh colleague

[46:50] from W three. I I I I have to support

[46:53] that um the phases in which you brought

[46:57] forward and the amount of results when I

[47:01] came to council this DCIP and CIP and

[47:04] the industrial

[47:06] um CIP program were already in place. I

[47:08] supported and supported council's

[47:11] decision from past decisions to the best

[47:13] of my ability. there were people that

[47:15] did benefit from it and there were

[47:17] concerns uh about it but I didn't see a

[47:21] vast improvement that I would have hoped

[47:22] that these CIP programs would have

[47:25] created would have been huge

[47:27] transformations but I didn't see huge

[47:31] uh I saw loopholes that people were were

[47:33] taking were using and helping their

[47:36] businesses and I'm happy to oblige u

[47:39] because they follow the guidelines that

[47:40] were set in place no harm no foul but I

[47:44] believe that it didn't give us the exact

[47:46] amount of return on the investment that

[47:50] was put into it and that's my opinion.

[47:53] The other part of this is that you have

[47:55] a phase in there regarding affordable

[47:57] housing and that part without actually

[48:01] taking into account of any polling or

[48:05] any data support of the residents that

[48:08] come to Bradford for the feel and look

[48:11] and feel of this community. that type of

[48:13] phase would actually detrimentally

[48:16] change the look and feel of what people

[48:18] buy here for. And that part I don't

[48:21] like. Um, so it would need some work.

[48:24] I'm not opposed to, you know, the actual

[48:28] premise of affordable housing. I just

[48:30] see that there's some challenges with

[48:32] that phase.

[48:34] So I believe I'm going to support option

[48:36] one on this and I appreciate your

[48:38] efforts and the work you've done so far.

[48:40] Thank you very much.

[48:43] Okay, thank you. I have now uh councelor

[48:46] Sandu, councelor Perin, and councelor

[48:48] Dehanei.

[48:51] » Thank you, your worship, Mr. Hack. Thank

[48:53] you, Mr. Gillis. Thanks for your

[48:56] presentation and your report.

[48:59] When we started the CIP program years

[49:02] ago, I I believed in it and and I still

[49:05] think it's a good program, but I also uh

[49:08] think this council was right when we put

[49:10] it on. Here it is. Uh to hit a pause

[49:13] button on it and I still think right now

[49:16] is not the time to activate it. Um I

[49:19] agree with option one. Um there's lots

[49:23] of good stuff in this report, but

[49:25] there's also more work that needs to be

[49:27] done. like phase three, we're talking

[49:29] about affordable housing and other

[49:30] housing on options, but there's other

[49:32] levels of government that we should be

[49:35] exploring and seeing what partnership we

[49:37] can get. Um I either I missed it or I

[49:42] don't see that in the report. Um there's

[49:46] uh downtown CIP. Um we had many concerns

[49:52] um when the applications came forward

[49:54] and we addressed some some are still

[49:56] outstanding. Um and based on it comes

[50:00] down to dollar

[50:02] report says that as of January 1st 2026

[50:05] we will have $65,000 in that reserve.

[50:09] That's not even enough to fund one

[50:12] project. and and it says to put more

[50:15] money into it at the budget time but

[50:18] there's other hot issues that we need to

[50:21] deal with. This is uh nice to have but

[50:25] not must in my mind and right now I

[50:26] would support option one.

[50:30] >> Thank you and thank you to members of

[50:32] » Thank you and thank you to members of

[50:32] council that have spoken. Just a couple

[50:33] of issues just to give a little bit of

[50:35] context on maybe I'll deal with that one

[50:37] first. So 65,000 and yeah it's not a lot

[50:39] of budget. The approach I would look at

[50:42] though if you were to go down the track

[50:44] of reopening the industrial areas CIP

[50:48] is the focus essentially is on a tax

[50:51] increment grant. So that again as I

[50:54] hopefully I've been very clear it's

[50:56] still public money but it's not a draw

[50:58] on the reserve unless you choose it to

[51:00] be a draw on the reserve. So you can

[51:03] take the money in and then rebate it

[51:05] back at the rate of 50% for you know

[51:08] whatever the eligible costs are. Maybe

[51:10] it's seven years, maybe it's three

[51:11] years, depends on the application. So I

[51:13] would not necessarily align the the low

[51:17] budget that exists in the reserve now

[51:20] with the with uh a reason as to not do

[51:23] the um industrial area CIP unless you

[51:26] think that 65 can be better spent

[51:28] elsewhere. That's obviously council's

[51:29] decision. So that's one thing on the uh

[51:32] on the housing side of things. I think

[51:34] it's really important to to recognize we

[51:37] we haven't put forward a plan in any

[51:39] way. We haven't done the research. All

[51:41] we've done is give an indication of what

[51:44] programs are in effect elsewhere and

[51:46] some of those locations like a Barry or

[51:49] G are where they have significant funds

[51:52] through the housing accelerator fund

[51:53] that they obtained. questions about

[51:56] planning prudence on this and whether

[51:58] it's a good thing. Those are things you

[52:00] would get into if you commissioned to

[52:03] look at a plan. So, I just want to be

[52:05] clear that we're not uh we're not

[52:07] actually recommending any one program at

[52:09] this point. We're just saying phase

[52:11] three, if you had a mind to do it,

[52:13] that's the period at which that's that's

[52:15] when you would focus on it um within the

[52:17] the work plan. Thank you. Comment

[52:22] >> that that is why Mr. hack. I'm saying we

[52:25] » that that is why Mr. hack. I'm saying we

[52:25] hit the continue to hit the pause and

[52:27] not just a straight no. I and I agree

[52:30] with you what you're saying, but I still

[52:33] believe it's not the right time right

[52:34] now.

[52:39] » Thank you. Um I'm also the opinion of

[52:42] going to option one and putting this on

[52:44] hiatus. Um we we had stopped uh putting

[52:49] money into it in 2023. The remaining in

[52:52] the budget based on the report the

[52:53] remaining in the budget would be to move

[52:55] forward with the phase one of

[52:57] implementing this and then we would be

[52:59] looking at putting 100 to 300 and then

[53:02] another section said 250 to 350,000 per

[53:05] year um as our budget for the CIP

[53:10] as commented around this table. We have

[53:12] so many things coming up for the budget

[53:14] and to add this now or to even look at

[53:17] adding this right now, I'm not in favor

[53:19] of that. Many things have come forward

[53:22] and I know things can be tweaked, but

[53:23] when we originally started this the

[53:25] whole the whole the CIP program, we

[53:29] originally started with the um seniors

[53:32] housing living styles and we got those

[53:35] which worked out beautiful. And then for

[53:38] the downtown CIP, we saw it be utilized

[53:42] at the beginning and buildings were

[53:44] starting to look great and and I saw the

[53:46] investment going there and it was making

[53:47] our downtown look good. Then it came to

[53:50] the point where it was getting a little

[53:51] frustrating for me to approve, but they

[53:54] were following the rules. It started to

[53:56] look like a cost of doing business,

[53:57] which most businesses should be doing on

[53:59] their own anyways based on what they

[54:01] want to do with their business. Um,

[54:05] the one question that I do have because

[54:07] I am in favor of putting this on hiatus.

[54:09] I don't want to be putting any more

[54:10] money into the CIP, but in regards to

[54:13] the industrial,

[54:16] if there was a potential to have a big

[54:20] player come to our municipality and they

[54:22] were looking for a DC deferral, could

[54:25] that not just come directly to council?

[54:27] Would we have to have a CIP program in

[54:29] place? because that one there is one

[54:32] that I could support because we still we

[54:35] don't lose any money. We get our money

[54:36] in the end, but because the DC charges,

[54:39] we have asked for relief over time and

[54:42] they have been paid back. So, that one,

[54:44] as long as that can still come to

[54:46] council, I'm totally good with just

[54:48] putting the rest of the CIP programs on

[54:50] uh hiatus.

[54:53] » I'll turn it to our CEO to have a

[54:55] comment on that.

[54:57] >> Thanks, your worship. With respect to

[54:58] » Thanks, your worship. With respect to

[54:58] the uh development charge deferrals,

[55:01] council um is entitled to at its

[55:04] discretion entertain those at any time.

[55:06] There does not need to be a CA CIP

[55:08] program in place for that.

[55:12] » Okay. Thank you. I have councelor de and

[55:14] councelorano next.

[55:18] » Thank you mayor. Um Jonathan, thank you

[55:21] so much for that thorough presentation

[55:23] and I am going to lean to option one.

[55:25] And my reason being is um for fairness

[55:29] for all especially the small businesses

[55:32] and the homebased businesses in our

[55:34] community. Often times we see those

[55:36] businesses are being left behind. Um we

[55:40] know that it's very important to you

[55:42] know create opportunities for the

[55:44] agriculture housing and development but

[55:47] at this time I believe to be fair for

[55:49] everyone is to continue pausing it. Also

[55:53] another thing um this is taxpayers money

[55:55] and I believe you want to hear more from

[55:58] those entrepreneurs especially those

[56:00] businesses you know what I mean who are

[56:03] selling application right to help with

[56:05] their businesses to thrive I believe we

[56:07] should open up the um consultation so

[56:10] I'm going to recommend that we open up

[56:12] the consultation for the public to come

[56:14] in right even those aspiring

[56:17] entrepreneurs to hear what are their

[56:19] challenges how can or what can we to how

[56:22] can we improve the CIP program so that

[56:25] their businesses can thrive. So at this

[56:27] time that's what I am definitely

[56:30] recommending and leaning on because we

[56:33] need to know what are their challenges

[56:34] because the CIP program is there to help

[56:37] businesses thrive in our community not

[56:39] to just issue and dash out money right

[56:42] because it is there want to make sure

[56:44] that we're utilizing it fairly and that

[56:47] we are helping businesses to thrive

[56:49] especially the small guys and the

[56:50] homebased businesses. So um that's my

[56:53] two cents. uh mayor, how do I do the

[56:56] recommendation to staff to have a public

[57:00] consultation to connect with those

[57:02] entrepreneurs and those aspired

[57:06] from this um about the CIB program.

[57:11] >> So councelor, I would probably ask uh

[57:13] » So councelor, I would probably ask uh

[57:13] our CEO next week uh to ask for staff

[57:15] report the next council meeting. We'll

[57:16] bring it as a staff report. You can ask

[57:17] for staff report to have that happen and

[57:19] have ecdev go and look at that in the

[57:21] future for staff. So I'd ask our CEO

[57:23] just he'll be on vacation so you can go

[57:25] through our deputy CO and we'll get that

[57:26] as a staff report. You can they'll bring

[57:28] in as a staff report for the next

[57:30] meeting. All right.

[57:32] >> Sorry. Um staff report to recommend a

[57:35] » Sorry. Um staff report to recommend a

[57:35] consultation for the public.

[57:36] >> Yes. Yes. We'll do it through a staff

[57:38] » Yes. Yes. We'll do it through a staff

[57:38] report.

[57:39] >> Awesome. Thank you.

[57:40] » Awesome. Thank you.

[57:40] >> Okay. Thanks.

[57:43] » Councelor Dano next.

[57:47] Thank you. So I I do appreciate all the

[57:51] colleagues comments. Um I I was

[57:53] definitely leaning more towards option

[57:54] one and uh but there is there is

[57:57] something that I want to be mindful of

[57:58] is in this in this economic climate we

[58:00] need to give as many tools as possible

[58:02] to our economic development team. U

[58:04] there's a lot of opportunities even with

[58:07] all this disruption in the uh the

[58:08] economy for people to relocate make make

[58:12] financial decisions with their

[58:13] businesses and whatnot. So, I I do feel

[58:16] that uh putting on a hiatus is the right

[58:18] decision because we're lacking or we're

[58:20] on the verge of having some of those

[58:21] strategies come forward that this would

[58:23] then partner up with. But at this point

[58:26] in time, um you know, I think some

[58:28] people have mentioned it that we've seen

[58:29] some sort of uh especially in the DCIP,

[58:31] we've seen a lot of people use it for

[58:32] leaseold improvements in a way that

[58:35] maybe wasn't the intention, but it still

[58:38] fit within the guidelines. Um so, I I

[58:40] definitely would love a stronger DCIP.

[58:43] um not just for let's call it light

[58:46] restoration. I would love to see pretty

[58:48] significant restoration addition or new

[58:50] construction uh or transformation of the

[58:53] downtown. So I would love to have

[58:55] additional incentiv incentification for

[58:58] the downtown core to do something more

[59:00] than just upgrading a building. I'm

[59:02] talking take the building down or

[59:04] preserve the heritage of the facade and

[59:06] and reconstruct something that maybe is

[59:08] um you know a multi-use development type

[59:10] project. That's where I see the DCIP

[59:12] really going. Um, in add uh one of the

[59:16] other concerns I have is and and uh you

[59:18] you kind of took my question there which

[59:20] was the in the in the industrial zones

[59:22] if people are going to come to the

[59:23] industrial zones and we have a

[59:24] significant business that comes there.

[59:26] Yeah, absolutely. We need to look at it.

[59:28] What I'm concerned with is that with all

[59:31] the industrial autom um you know it's

[59:33] the automation that's taking place. A

[59:35] lot of this is massive massive buildings

[59:38] with very little amount of employees in

[59:40] there. So yeah, we might get a little

[59:42] bit of that, you know, the tax

[59:43] incentives from having those types of

[59:44] businesses here, but really those types

[59:46] of businesses don't drive tons of

[59:47] economic growth to our actual

[59:49] businesses. They're not going out for

[59:50] lunches. They're not shopping locally.

[59:52] there's, you know, a handful of

[59:54] employees working in a massive massive

[59:55] factory and warehouse. And it's a lot of

[59:57] boxes and and shipping logistics moving

[59:59] in and out. So, I'd like to see, you

[1:00:01] know, um a lot more consideration for

[1:00:03] other types of um businesses in the

[1:00:05] industrial area off the 400, which I

[1:00:07] think that there's a lot of people

[1:00:08] looking around, which is really good.

[1:00:10] And we're definitely motivated to work

[1:00:11] with those types of businesses. The last

[1:00:13] thing I want to say is uh when it comes

[1:00:15] to housing, one of the concerns that I

[1:00:17] have is a lot of people are taking

[1:00:18] Bradford and and coming up here and

[1:00:20] carving up homes and turning it into a

[1:00:22] uh a nice little uh program for them to

[1:00:24] uh you know, run multiple uh little

[1:00:26] residents out of it and and earn income.

[1:00:28] So, if if it does come down to some

[1:00:30] types of housing, again, it needs to be

[1:00:32] with the strategy. We need to identify

[1:00:33] what type of housing that we're

[1:00:34] interested in doing, how we're going to

[1:00:36] fund it, if we are going to fund it. But

[1:00:38] I'm not interested in making a bunch of

[1:00:40] people, you know, landlords. That's not

[1:00:42] that's not my goal. My goal is to to

[1:00:44] transform the downtown area. And I think

[1:00:46] that that's really important. So

[1:00:48] ultimately, yeah, I support the council

[1:00:50] with with going on a hiatus, but I I

[1:00:52] think or continuing the hiatus, but I

[1:00:53] think we really need to shape this and

[1:00:55] give the tools to our economic

[1:00:56] development team as quickly as possible

[1:00:58] so we can maximize the markets right

[1:01:00] now. I think there's a lot of

[1:01:01] opportunity even with all the disruption

[1:01:03] to really reach out and have people

[1:01:04] reach out. So, it's a it's a little bit

[1:01:07] of a shame that we can't, you know,

[1:01:08] continue with something at this point,

[1:01:10] but I I think we need those tools in our

[1:01:12] toolbox. And maybe you can address some

[1:01:14] of that.

[1:01:15] >> Just through you, Mr. Mayor. I was just

[1:01:17] » Just through you, Mr. Mayor. I was just

[1:01:17] going to say, yeah, you know, whether

[1:01:18] it's on a hiatus or you operate it, but

[1:01:21] you choose not to fund the programs at

[1:01:23] six or one, half of the other, half

[1:01:25] dozen or the other, it is still there to

[1:01:28] be used. So, if you did have a big

[1:01:30] opportunity that comes in and you did

[1:01:32] the homework on what the balance of of

[1:01:35] benefit is, whether it's employment or

[1:01:38] just square footage and taxes paid, you

[1:01:42] could turn the CIP back on very quickly.

[1:01:45] Um, I don't think unless you made major

[1:01:47] changes, you would have to go back

[1:01:49] through public process, but that would

[1:01:51] be your choice. But even if you did, you

[1:01:53] could expedite that.

[1:01:58] C Scott next.

[1:02:00] >> Thank you for the presentation and the

[1:02:02] » Thank you for the presentation and the

[1:02:02] work that went into it.

[1:02:04] I want to make a few comments uh and try

[1:02:07] and pick up on some of what was said

[1:02:09] because I I I agree with a lot of it.

[1:02:12] uh council fari talked about

[1:02:15] over time the downtown CIP started to

[1:02:18] look like the cost of doing business and

[1:02:21] one of the things that I think we

[1:02:23] recognize is there's the cost of doing

[1:02:25] business on the municipality as well and

[1:02:28] what I mean by that is when I worked in

[1:02:30] the premier's office and we were putting

[1:02:32] major grants to attract big employers

[1:02:34] you were looking for the municipality or

[1:02:36] the region to match it to help

[1:02:38] incentivize so we could compete with

[1:02:40] upper New York state Ohio, what have

[1:02:42] you. And uh we've seen some major

[1:02:45] employers come to town, renovate uh in

[1:02:48] my ward, in the industrial area, and

[1:02:50] elsewhere in town, and we've secured

[1:02:52] those local jobs. But it's become this

[1:02:55] sort of arms race of everyone's doing

[1:02:57] it, so everyone has to do it, and we're

[1:02:59] here to have value for our taxpayers

[1:03:02] money. And in the past, councelor

[1:03:03] Gordano has talked about, and I think

[1:03:05] you referenced it tonight as well, the

[1:03:06] downtown has to be big enough to be

[1:03:09] meaningful. uh when it first started we

[1:03:12] saw a lot of facade improvements and it

[1:03:15] looked like it had momentum. We've seen

[1:03:17] much more leaseold improvements lately.

[1:03:20] So I think we need a program to provide

[1:03:24] grants as an economic development tool

[1:03:26] so that we can be attracting business to

[1:03:28] town. My frustration is I don't know how

[1:03:31] that fits into a budget. With the strong

[1:03:34] mayor budget, we have a presumed 3%

[1:03:37] increase pursuant to a mayoral direction

[1:03:40] to do that without understanding what

[1:03:42] the needs are from the department heads.

[1:03:44] So I have no idea where a $300,000

[1:03:47] economic development line item fits into

[1:03:50] a budget designed to meet a political

[1:03:52] percentage target. So that's a

[1:03:54] frustration that I have sitting here

[1:03:56] today four or five months in advance of

[1:03:59] our budget coming to council because

[1:04:02] it's being reverse engineered to hit a

[1:04:04] political target rather than to identify

[1:04:05] the needs. I think keeping the project

[1:04:09] on hiatus is the only responsible thing

[1:04:11] to do in that context, not knowing how

[1:04:13] the budget's going to turn out. But I

[1:04:15] don't like the second half of that

[1:04:18] recommendation that says no further

[1:04:19] action will be taken. I'd actually like

[1:04:21] you to put together a thorough

[1:04:25] plan that addresses industrial downtown

[1:04:28] bond head and diversification of

[1:04:30] agriculture. Agriculture remains our

[1:04:32] number one job base. And so I'd want to

[1:04:35] have a CIP program continue to be

[1:04:38] developed perhaps for next term to

[1:04:40] review that looks at how can we actually

[1:04:43] do this in a meaningful way that

[1:04:45] addresses our key economic drivers,

[1:04:48] other public policy goals like downtown

[1:04:49] revitalization, energy efficiency,

[1:04:52] heritage preservation, affordable

[1:04:54] housing. But I need to see that complete

[1:04:56] picture because you said earlier, Mr.

[1:04:58] Hack, you're prioritizing industrial,

[1:05:01] not agriculture. I might make the

[1:05:02] opposite choice depending on the needs,

[1:05:04] depending on how the economy is shaping

[1:05:06] out. But ultimately, sitting here today,

[1:05:10] keeping it on hiatus, but continuing to

[1:05:12] do the homework, that's how I feel I

[1:05:14] have to vote tonight, not knowing how

[1:05:16] this budget process is going to unfold

[1:05:18] the way it's been set up.

[1:05:22] » Okay, I'll get back to you. Uh, okay.

[1:05:25] Yeah, you just seconded, so I'll let you

[1:05:27] go first.

[1:05:30] Yeah, I uh I'd actually like to see the

[1:05:34] CIP program dropped because I just think

[1:05:37] it's it's putting too much time on our

[1:05:39] staff. I'd rather see our ectdom

[1:05:42] economic development actually go and

[1:05:46] further enhance the concert program and

[1:05:48] attract business and market our town and

[1:05:50] do those things and stop doing all these

[1:05:54] studies about CIPs and all this stuff.

[1:05:57] If we need to do an improvement or if we

[1:06:00] need to do an incentive for for for a

[1:06:03] company to come here for growth, we can

[1:06:06] look at that on a one oneonone basis. Um

[1:06:11] but to just continuously if we see a

[1:06:13] real need like with the downtown core

[1:06:16] the the improvements there was a

[1:06:18] definite need when we had seniors

[1:06:20] housing a definite need we created a CIP

[1:06:23] program for it but I don't see the need

[1:06:25] right now for a CIP program but I'm

[1:06:29] going to I seconded option one and let's

[1:06:31] just keep it on hold.

[1:06:34] So, Mr. You want to comment on the uh

[1:06:36] investment opportunity like the oneonone

[1:06:38] investment option. You want to comment

[1:06:39] on that? I I think

[1:06:41] >> No, no. What councelor Kite just said he

[1:06:43] » No, no. What councelor Kite just said he

[1:06:43] would like to put the he said we can

[1:06:45] look at it on oneonone basis where we

[1:06:47] can incentify. I I assume that's against

[1:06:49] original.

[1:06:50] >> I can't speak to the issue of staff time

[1:06:51] » I can't speak to the issue of staff time

[1:06:52] and how it's being used elsewhere. But

[1:06:53] just thinking at face value that that

[1:06:55] you know it's always at a premium and

[1:06:57] you want to use staff effectively what

[1:06:59] you have currently is you have two cip

[1:07:02] downtown cip and an industrial cip which

[1:07:05] are both they're in existence right and

[1:07:08] so you can you have not chosen to end

[1:07:10] them you've chosen to leave them on

[1:07:12] hiatus. Um I I'll say again my only

[1:07:16] comment if if budget issues are are uh

[1:07:19] are going to be you know they're

[1:07:21] uncertain at this time is that on the

[1:07:23] industrial side if you rested on the tax

[1:07:26] increment grant as an option you could

[1:07:28] leave that one as open because that is a

[1:07:30] tax increment grant no other funding

[1:07:32] from a CIP reserve would be required. So

[1:07:35] in theory uh it would remain budgeted

[1:07:38] only if an application were to come

[1:07:40] forward to get development and and then

[1:07:43] approved and then impact reassesses it.

[1:07:46] So it could be several years down the

[1:07:48] road. That's a that's a matter for

[1:07:51] senior management to determine what the

[1:07:52] fiscal impact would be on that because

[1:07:54] as I said it's not nothing. But that's

[1:07:57] one way you could do it. But I think the

[1:07:59] um uh the fact is that you if you put

[1:08:03] the plans on hiatus, they still exist as

[1:08:05] plans and so you can choose to bring

[1:08:08] them back um at your uh at your

[1:08:11] discretion

[1:08:13] >> or develop them I should say.

[1:08:15] » or develop them I should say.

[1:08:15] >> Thanks. So I just wanted to say you know

[1:08:16] » Thanks. So I just wanted to say you know

[1:08:16] thank you very much for the

[1:08:17] presentation. Uh great work and to our

[1:08:20] staff the economic don office great work

[1:08:22] on the CIPs. I I wanted to listen to

[1:08:24] council first before I I put my comments

[1:08:26] out there. And I I still think the CIP's

[1:08:28] did a great job, especially the

[1:08:29] industrial CIP. It actually reaped about

[1:08:32] $200 million worth of growth within our

[1:08:34] community when it comes to what we did

[1:08:36] in in the on reagents and other areas

[1:08:38] within our community. So to me, the

[1:08:40] industrial CIP is is a is a real tool

[1:08:42] that can help our our existing business.

[1:08:45] And I and I would certainly love to see

[1:08:47] that carry on with a tax grant. So a TIG

[1:08:51] do a tax increment grant system uh where

[1:08:53] it doesn't really hit our budget.

[1:08:54] There's no budget implication at that

[1:08:56] point in time. It allows us to offer it

[1:08:58] up to our existing business in our

[1:09:00] community. So it keeps that program

[1:09:01] alive and it keeps it in the toolbox so

[1:09:03] that when we have businesses call us and

[1:09:06] let's say you know a lot of business and

[1:09:08] we lost DSV the 1.3 million square foot

[1:09:11] building. We lost DSV. They went to

[1:09:13] Inisville. They were looking here and

[1:09:14] they didn't come here. I don't know if

[1:09:16] they communicated with our staff or not

[1:09:17] but that's where I want them to pick up

[1:09:18] the phone. I want them to pick up our

[1:09:19] phone and and ask what is this? What is

[1:09:22] the CIP? What does this do for our

[1:09:24] business? How does this help us? That's

[1:09:25] where we get the conversation. When they

[1:09:27] go on our website, they look at our

[1:09:28] economic development website and they

[1:09:29] they search that site. If they don't

[1:09:30] reach out to us, we actually don't know

[1:09:32] they were here. So, having something in

[1:09:34] the toolbox makes them hopefully pick up

[1:09:36] the phone and call us and say, you know,

[1:09:38] what is that? What can we do here? Can

[1:09:40] we can we invest in Bradford or not? Is

[1:09:41] it worth it? So, it just gives us a

[1:09:43] chance to do that. And so option two

[1:09:45] would have been straightforward that

[1:09:46] it's the the industrial CIP that I would

[1:09:49] love to see move forward with a tax

[1:09:51] grant only. So move the tax grant there.

[1:09:54] You know, the deferred DCs, we can do

[1:09:55] that anytime we want. That's a council

[1:09:56] initiative. We can do that anytime we

[1:09:58] want. But that's what I would love to

[1:10:00] see. Uh I understand, I agree with

[1:10:01] council. Uh the the downtown uh CIP, I

[1:10:04] would say put it on hiatus. Leave it

[1:10:06] there. Other CIPs, this talks about

[1:10:08] bringing future options. We will have

[1:10:10] that budget discussion coming soon.

[1:10:11] There's nothing surprising about the

[1:10:13] budget. It's been done this way for the

[1:10:14] whole term. It uh it was a director for

[1:10:17] me that gave a 3.5% average increase

[1:10:20] across our term here. So, it's average.

[1:10:22] That's what our average is going to be,

[1:10:23] our tax increase over the three uh the

[1:10:25] four years that we're here at council.

[1:10:27] So, it's nothing surprising. Uh staff

[1:10:29] are building that budget. I have been

[1:10:30] given that responsibility by the

[1:10:32] province and I uh gave that directive

[1:10:34] and that's it. And it's up to council.

[1:10:36] It's your budget. You do what you want

[1:10:38] with it. You want tax to go up, you do

[1:10:39] that. You want tax go down, you do that.

[1:10:42] But it's your budget. you'll work

[1:10:43] through it and you'll have that

[1:10:44] opportunity to do that. I'm just giving

[1:10:45] a directive, setting it in motion and

[1:10:48] staff will build that budget and they'll

[1:10:49] come back and then it'll be up to you

[1:10:51] folks to see what you want to do with

[1:10:52] that budget. If you'd like the number,

[1:10:53] you stay with it. If you don't like the

[1:10:54] number, move on. But that's got nothing

[1:10:57] to do with option two. We don't need to

[1:10:58] build in budget because it's a tax

[1:11:00] grant. So, it doesn't impact us at this

[1:11:02] point in time. So, we would move that

[1:11:04] and then the rest of this would come

[1:11:05] through in phase two and four back in 26

[1:11:08] 27 when we know more about it. So, I'll

[1:11:10] go back to to council members. Councelor

[1:11:12] Scott and I got Councelor Harper.

[1:11:14] >> Yeah, just just to do a little bit of

[1:11:17] » Yeah, just just to do a little bit of

[1:11:17] correction there. Uh strong mayor powers

[1:11:19] were introduced in the second year of

[1:11:20] our term and staff are building a

[1:11:22] budget, as I said, against a political

[1:11:24] target without knowing the full needs.

[1:11:26] That's not something I really care to

[1:11:28] dispute. It's just the facts of the

[1:11:29] situation. So staff aren't building a

[1:11:32] budget in isolation. They're building a

[1:11:34] budget against an arbitrary political

[1:11:35] target of what one individual member of

[1:11:38] council has determined he wants the tax

[1:11:40] increase to be. Tax increase hopefully

[1:11:42] will be less than that. All that being

[1:11:44] said, I appreciate what you said about

[1:11:46] the tax increment grant and understood

[1:11:48] the point that it doesn't hit the budget

[1:11:51] as much as the recommendation for the

[1:11:53] 300,000 or x00,000 that you suggested.

[1:11:55] It still has an impact and I'm not

[1:11:59] prepared to make a decision tonight in

[1:12:02] the context of a budget that as the

[1:12:05] mayor just said, council can increase it

[1:12:06] or council can decrease it. We haven't

[1:12:08] seen it yet and staff are telling us

[1:12:10] what their needs are within a context

[1:12:14] that puts uh the cart before the horse.

[1:12:17] So, as much as I'd like to see tools in

[1:12:20] the toolbox for economic development, I

[1:12:22] think I need to see it, as I mentioned

[1:12:23] earlier, in a holistic way so that I can

[1:12:26] make a decision. And I I'll say it again

[1:12:28] because I think councelor Jordano has

[1:12:29] been right about this. It's got to be

[1:12:31] big enough to be meaningful. And a

[1:12:34] little bit of money here and there, I

[1:12:36] think stopped being meaningful over the

[1:12:38] past three or four years.

[1:12:41] Our

[1:12:43] biggest uh industrial application was

[1:12:45] for med relief at that time and it was

[1:12:47] $98 million and they brought in 300 jobs

[1:12:51] and we paid $98,000.

[1:12:53] So it's good. I I'm chairing the

[1:12:56] meeting. I'm just talking about

[1:12:57] opportunities out there. So just letting

[1:12:59] it go. Uh councelor Harper.

[1:13:03] Thank you mayor. Um, in hopes of

[1:13:05] collaboration and clarity, I'm going to

[1:13:08] use uh council fari's tactic here in

[1:13:11] regards to this question. The tax

[1:13:13] incentive for industrial um CIP or

[1:13:17] industrial businesses that like to come

[1:13:19] here, could they not be come to us on a

[1:13:22] onetoone basis as well? And that may be

[1:13:24] a question for the CEO to answer. help

[1:13:26] us me clarify that so that way it seems

[1:13:29] like we're want to put it on hiatus but

[1:13:31] we don't want to we want to have the

[1:13:33] tools in the box. Could that not come to

[1:13:35] us on a onetoone and a you know

[1:13:39] discretionary

[1:13:41] utilization for ECDEV to negotiate with

[1:13:44] industries that would like to come to

[1:13:46] our town and then they have that to be

[1:13:48] like well we could bring that to council

[1:13:50] and you know offer that tax incentive if

[1:13:53] you say it doesn't hit the tax bracket

[1:13:54] why do we need a CIP for that so I'd

[1:13:57] like to ask that question

[1:14:01] » thanks your worship

[1:14:03] uh In Ontario, municipalities are

[1:14:06] prohibited from providing financial

[1:14:08] incentives to any commercial or

[1:14:11] profitable enterprise in an effort to u

[1:14:15] either support them or entice them to to

[1:14:17] come to municipality with a few

[1:14:19] exceptions. One of those exceptions is a

[1:14:21] community improvement program or plan

[1:14:23] that sets out the the parameters under

[1:14:27] which the the assistance would be

[1:14:29] provided uh is prepared within a public

[1:14:31] forum and is available to any applicant

[1:14:35] to apply and and um explain how they

[1:14:38] would meet those criteria. So when Mr.

[1:14:40] hack talks about um keeping our CIP

[1:14:45] in a um

[1:14:48] uh

[1:14:50] dormant state um and activating at some

[1:14:54] point in the future if the need arises.

[1:14:56] Um in in my view

[1:14:59] those conditions would be um there's a

[1:15:03] um some demand from a number of parties

[1:15:05] that that are of interest to council.

[1:15:07] you would open it up for a period of

[1:15:11] time not just to deal with that

[1:15:12] individual company because that is kind

[1:15:15] of circumventing the rules of province

[1:15:17] it out for us um and then entertain any

[1:15:20] applications within that time frame um

[1:15:23] to receive the assistance so it's it's

[1:15:25] not a onetoone thing it'd be creating

[1:15:27] another period of time that the CIP

[1:15:30] program would be alive

[1:15:34] » okay answer your

[1:15:37] comment. Okay, go ahead.

[1:15:40] >> Uh thank you uh thank you mayor and uh

[1:15:45] » Uh thank you uh thank you mayor and uh

[1:15:45] CEO for those comments and uh

[1:15:47] recollection of the process. There's a

[1:15:49] lot of procedures that uh are easily

[1:15:52] weighed upon or or or forgotten. But um

[1:15:55] I remember hearing that now a couple

[1:15:57] years ago when I asked that question and

[1:15:59] it's great to recall that and I'm glad I

[1:16:01] asked it for for clarification.

[1:16:04] Um, it definitely makes things a little

[1:16:06] bit more tricky in regards to the

[1:16:09] guidelines and the in regards to the

[1:16:11] actual

[1:16:13] uh restrictions municipalities have in

[1:16:15] regards to um attracting certain types

[1:16:18] of businesses. So, u I'm going to have

[1:16:21] to leave my comments there and maybe

[1:16:23] weigh in, but it's definitely giving me

[1:16:25] a ponder to think about right now for a

[1:16:27] decision.

[1:16:29] >> Thank you for the comments. I've got

[1:16:30] » Thank you for the comments. I've got

[1:16:30] councelor Jordano.

[1:16:32] That'll be quick so we can move on to

[1:16:34] the vote. Um, so yeah, when I was

[1:16:36] talking earlier about the tools in the

[1:16:38] toolbox, and I think the mayor kind of

[1:16:39] alluded to that, CEO's comments about

[1:16:42] that we can't just open it for one, we

[1:16:44] have to open it to review. Um, my

[1:16:46] question is, can we have it on our

[1:16:49] website saying that the CIP is currently

[1:16:52] accepting applications for consideration

[1:16:55] and in future budgets like the one that

[1:16:58] will be coming up, we can decide and

[1:17:00] allocate if at that point at the budget

[1:17:03] we see a need to add some funds to that

[1:17:05] or vice versa, maybe we have a quarterly

[1:17:07] opportunity to revisit the CIP.

[1:17:10] Therefore signaling to the business

[1:17:12] community we are actively looking at

[1:17:14] this but we're welcoming your

[1:17:17] applications in the meantime

[1:17:21] » if I can I think thank you for to your

[1:17:23] worship um I certainly appreciate the

[1:17:26] comment I think in in all respects you

[1:17:28] have to act in good faith um and so if

[1:17:32] it's on hiatus or whether it's

[1:17:34] operational but unfunded it's it's it's

[1:17:37] the rose by another name it is that's

[1:17:39] what it is you not be able to distribute

[1:17:41] funds. Um I think we all have to

[1:17:44] remember that the C the provision of

[1:17:47] public funds through a CIP is entirely

[1:17:50] discretionary. You can set out rules.

[1:17:53] You can judge applicants based on that,

[1:17:56] but there's no entitlement here. So you

[1:17:59] have the ability to to moderate, but

[1:18:02] again you have to act in good faith. you

[1:18:04] can't draw people in and then then you

[1:18:06] know when it's clearly a good

[1:18:09] opportunity meets all the rules you have

[1:18:10] to act in good faith so I think it comes

[1:18:12] back to you know if it's on hiatus it's

[1:18:15] on hiatus that's the approach

[1:18:19] so my thoughts on that is that if we

[1:18:21] open up the the IIA and we we you know

[1:18:23] had parameters that talked about job

[1:18:26] jobs of a specific number square footage

[1:18:29] I mean we do allow ourselves to get

[1:18:31] calls and get those get those questions

[1:18:34] and the issue is that it does come to

[1:18:35] council and we have the ability then to

[1:18:37] make that decision when we want to and

[1:18:39] if it means that we have to actually add

[1:18:41] something into the CIP to fund that

[1:18:44] project because it is of great value to

[1:18:46] our community we have the right and at

[1:18:48] time to do that we can do that at that

[1:18:50] time to fund that in the budget so to me

[1:18:52] leaving uh you know leaving the IIA open

[1:18:55] is uh critical I think it's something

[1:18:56] that we shouldn't be uh shutting down

[1:18:59] because uh we have the right as a

[1:19:01] council to make those decisions in the

[1:19:02] end so to to me. Uh it's important

[1:19:04] because this is about job creation and

[1:19:06] I've seen it work in our industrial

[1:19:08] program already on reagents and in our

[1:19:11] community and it has valued over $200

[1:19:14] million in in money and it you know one

[1:19:17] facility created 300 jobs. So there is

[1:19:20] an opportunity for us to benefit from

[1:19:21] that. So that's where I'm at with option

[1:19:23] two. Council Harper.

[1:19:27] Thank you mayor. I think we're I don't

[1:19:29] we don't want to actually, you know, cut

[1:19:32] off the circulation regards to some of

[1:19:34] this. I would be open to option one with

[1:19:36] an amendment that all the other plans to

[1:19:38] go on hiatus except the IIA, but to come

[1:19:41] back to us in regards to what that looks

[1:19:43] like on the IIA. I don't agree with the

[1:19:45] rest of option two. Um, but definitely

[1:19:49] having that on there and seeing the

[1:19:50] restrictions that uh face our

[1:19:52] municipality, I would not want a

[1:19:55] business to overlook us because of an

[1:19:57] oversight like this. And I think if we

[1:19:59] leave it open there, funded or not, we

[1:20:01] still say that we do have an IIA CIP.

[1:20:04] Um, and that could be a beneficial thing

[1:20:06] for us. Who knows what comes in the

[1:20:09] door. So I would like to add um an

[1:20:12] amendment friendly amendment to the to

[1:20:14] my my colleagues initial option one that

[1:20:17] we add um the IAIP

[1:20:22] stay up.

[1:20:24] >> No, there's other stuff there. So

[1:20:27] » No, there's other stuff there. So

[1:20:27] So I was just councilor Harper, if you

[1:20:30] want to make an amendment, we can. And I

[1:20:31] was just going to suggest that if you're

[1:20:33] okay with that option that we you take

[1:20:34] option two that council approves a

[1:20:36] proceeding of phase one implementation

[1:20:38] industrial human improvement plan IIA as

[1:20:40] outlined in the report and that staff

[1:20:41] bey utilize the existing CIP reserve at

[1:20:44] phase one implementation and that the

[1:20:46] rest of the CIPs stay on an hiatus. So

[1:20:49] it's the same thing kind of we're just

[1:20:50] juggling it around and we're getting rid

[1:20:52] of two and four. you you're not, you

[1:20:53] know, you're not liking to enforce it,

[1:20:55] remove that and just put the downtown

[1:20:57] CIP uh on hiatus and the seniors housing

[1:21:00] on hiatus. Keep them there and just do

[1:21:02] the IIA for the IIA one. And we have

[1:21:06] 65,000 that is in that budget already.

[1:21:08] It's not we're not asking to add more

[1:21:09] right now. We're just saying use that

[1:21:11] money. If something comes along and we

[1:21:12] can as council endorse it, we endorse it

[1:21:15] and we'll the program will come back

[1:21:16] with the identified TIG and things like

[1:21:18] that for for that. Yeah, please. I'm

[1:21:22] okay with the way you put that um in

[1:21:24] regards to this before we move to the

[1:21:26] phase one of implementation and I know

[1:21:29] um sir you were talking about whenever

[1:21:32] we give you a go- ahead you would come

[1:21:33] back to us with certain elements of what

[1:21:35] that looks like was that what we we

[1:21:37] would come back to us then we would see

[1:21:39] what option or phase one looks like

[1:21:41] before we even move forward then

[1:21:44] >> you Mr. No, I'll just confirm exactly

[1:21:46] » you Mr. No, I'll just confirm exactly

[1:21:46] that. Yeah. So, so phase one final slide

[1:21:50] we had uh phase one Q3. So, September

[1:21:54] onwards of this year into the end of the

[1:21:56] year, draft the AICP programs. So, as I

[1:22:01] said, and this is just for food for

[1:22:03] thought again, if you were to maintain

[1:22:04] the option of having an open industrial

[1:22:08] area CIP,

[1:22:10] uh, with a tax increment grant there for

[1:22:13] discretionary use, then then that's the

[1:22:16] program that gets written.

[1:22:18] So, mayor that I I have to basically um

[1:22:21] bow to the first option that that was

[1:22:24] given to uh my colleague here to see

[1:22:26] whether he wishes to resend or and then

[1:22:29] make changes or wishes to proceed. So,

[1:22:31] up to you to proceed.

[1:22:33] >> Okay, I'll go back. I've got councelor

[1:22:34] » Okay, I'll go back. I've got councelor

[1:22:34] Henny first and then I'll go back to the

[1:22:36] asking about what we want to do options.

[1:22:38] Councelor Dehaney,

[1:22:44] you're muted. that councelor.

[1:22:48] >> Thank you. So, I am not going to support

[1:22:50] » Thank you. So, I am not going to support

[1:22:50] the amendment. I'm going to stick with

[1:22:52] option one. Um, is you know, we're going

[1:22:55] to support all or we're not going to

[1:22:56] support them. We have to be fair. We

[1:22:58] cannot pick and choose who we're going

[1:23:00] to support or who we're going to um open

[1:23:03] the door to. I think it is we're not

[1:23:06] canceling the CIP. We're just pausing it

[1:23:08] for a bit. And nothing is wrong with

[1:23:10] understanding that. I think we need to

[1:23:12] make meaningful discuss this decision

[1:23:15] and not polit and don't be too political

[1:23:17] driven with our decision right and

[1:23:21] majority of us already see option one I

[1:23:23] really don't see why I understand that

[1:23:25] having healthy dialogue is very

[1:23:26] important but I don't see why we should

[1:23:29] be going around and around and around

[1:23:30] until we please you know people and come

[1:23:34] up with an answer confusing the whole

[1:23:36] body of everyone right majority of

[1:23:38] person said option one let us pause it

[1:23:40] for a And I think it's very manipulative

[1:23:43] for us to be continuing this way and

[1:23:45] leading into these decision you know

[1:23:48] which you know persons now maybe double

[1:23:50] thinking it's only fair if we're not

[1:23:53] going to be fair to everyone I don't

[1:23:55] think we should pick and choose who

[1:23:57] we're going to open it to option one was

[1:24:00] on the table and I believe I will

[1:24:03] definitely continue supporting option

[1:24:05] one until we go to budget and if there's

[1:24:07] any extras or you know seeing ways that

[1:24:10] we can open up the program to more right

[1:24:13] that was on the table then we do so but

[1:24:15] nothing is wrong with saying pause for a

[1:24:16] bit and respect that and move on to the

[1:24:19] next agenda

[1:24:22] okay thank you for those comments okay I

[1:24:26] do have uh option one on the floor so

[1:24:28] wondered if uh I've got my mover was

[1:24:31] councelor Dyke and councelor

[1:24:32] >> Vike call for a vote

[1:24:35] » Vike call for a vote

[1:24:35] >> you're going to call for a vote okay

[1:24:41] and look at the amendments. I think it's

[1:24:43] a vote.

[1:24:44] >> So, the mover doesn't want to move it

[1:24:45] » So, the mover doesn't want to move it

[1:24:45] anymore. Okay. So, I'm going to opt uh

[1:24:48] put another Who would like to move

[1:24:50] option two? As stated, we remove the

[1:24:52] staff report back, you know, get rid of

[1:24:54] options two and four.

[1:24:59] » He he can.

[1:25:00] >> Madam clerk, can he can he pull his uh

[1:25:02] » Madam clerk, can he can he pull his uh

[1:25:02] >> debating?

[1:25:06] Give her a moment to look that up, but

[1:25:09] that we could go to the feet vote. Yeah,

[1:25:10] we could uh we'll just see if he can

[1:25:17] » you worship while we're waiting for the

[1:25:19] clerk. If the mover has rescended, I'm

[1:25:22] prepared to move that and if I still

[1:25:25] have the sec second or unless clerk

[1:25:27] tells us otherwise, I I still agree with

[1:25:30] option one.

[1:25:33] Okay, we'll just wait and see.

[1:25:39] I can move option one if you don't have

[1:25:41] a mover.

[1:25:42] >> We have a few of them apparently.

[1:25:45] » We have a few of them apparently.

[1:25:45] >> Thank you.

[1:25:55] Okay. With with respect to the um motion

[1:25:58] being withdrawn. So, a motion that has

[1:26:00] been duly seconded may be drawn subject

[1:26:02] to um the consent of councel.

[1:26:08] Um if no member objects to the

[1:26:10] withdrawal of the motion, the motion

[1:26:12] shall be considered withdrawn. If a

[1:26:14] member objects to the withdrawal of a

[1:26:15] motion, the withdrawal a withdrawal

[1:26:17] motion shall be entertained. And if such

[1:26:19] motion receives a seconder, it shall be

[1:26:21] decided prior to consideration of any

[1:26:22] other motion.

[1:26:24] And if a motion is withdrawn, the effect

[1:26:26] is the same as if had never been made.

[1:26:29] So, we would need the

[1:26:31] consent of council.

[1:26:33] >> It's okay. So, we need So, I I I I'm

[1:26:35] » It's okay. So, we need So, I I I I'm

[1:26:35] sure council has will want to hear the

[1:26:37] motion because I've had a few say they

[1:26:39] want to second it again or move it. So,

[1:26:41] we have a motion on the floor. Option

[1:26:42] one, moved by councelor Dy, seconded by

[1:26:45] councelor We'll vote on option one

[1:26:48] uh to see that's what we'll vote on. And

[1:26:50] if that passes, if not, we move on and

[1:26:52] we we bring up another option. So, okay.

[1:26:54] So, all in favor of option one,

[1:26:57] one, two, three.

[1:26:59] >> Mayor, one second. Just a second,

[1:27:01] » Mayor, one second. Just a second,

[1:27:01] please. Cuz I want to make sure that I

[1:27:03] know what I'm voting on cuz there has

[1:27:04] been a lot of changes in between. Are we

[1:27:07] voting on option one as original without

[1:27:09] any amendment, without any motion? So, I

[1:27:13] want to make sure that I am voting on

[1:27:14] what was presented initially without all

[1:27:17] these chaos and stuff before it started.

[1:27:20] So can you please read what we are voted

[1:27:23] on please and thank you.

[1:27:25] >> Option one that the community

[1:27:26] » Option one that the community

[1:27:26] improvement uh plan programs remain on

[1:27:29] hiatus and no further action be taken at

[1:27:31] this time.

[1:27:33] >> Okay, perfect. I am voting for that.

[1:28:02] vote.

[1:28:21] » We're ready.

[1:28:21] >> Yeah, I'm ready. We're ready.

[1:28:24] Okay. For a recorded vote for um option

[1:28:28] one for the CIP program

[1:28:33] yes in support and no in opposition.

[1:28:35] We'll start with councelor Harper.

[1:28:39] To clarify is to put it on hiatus and I

[1:28:42] say no.

[1:28:52] Sorry. You're looking to clarify the the

[1:28:53] motion.

[1:28:55] >> Yeah. You said it was to keep this CIP

[1:28:58] » Yeah. You said it was to keep this CIP

[1:28:58] and put a You didn't mention that it was

[1:29:00] to put it on hiatus.

[1:29:04] » Let me put the motion on the screen so

[1:29:05] everybody has it in front of them.

[1:29:43] Okay. So, for a recorded vote for the

[1:29:44] motion that's in front of council,

[1:29:47] do you want do you want me to read the

[1:29:49] motion?

[1:29:50] >> Yeah, please read it out for everybody.

[1:29:52] » Yeah, please read it out for everybody.

[1:29:52] that report EDO 2025-3 titled 2026

[1:29:56] community improvement plan CIP program

[1:29:58] options be received and that council

[1:30:00] endorses a community improvement plan

[1:30:01] comprehensive update report prepared by

[1:30:03] CR Planning and Management and that

[1:30:06] council approve proceeding with the IAIP

[1:30:09] the community improvement plan programs

[1:30:11] remain on hiatus and no further action

[1:30:13] be taken at this time.

[1:30:18] » Yes, sir. You you it's option one. It's

[1:30:20] just option one. the community

[1:30:21] improvement program uh improvement plan

[1:30:24] program remains on hiatus and no further

[1:30:26] action be taken at this time. So we

[1:30:27] didn't actually put um the IAIP in

[1:30:31] there.

[1:30:32] >> That's just straightforward option one.

[1:30:34] » That's just straightforward option one.

[1:30:34] They all say once

[1:30:45] she's just going to put on screen again.

[1:30:46] It's she's going to rewrite it. It's the

[1:30:48] original motion. It's going the original

[1:30:49] motion option one. It's on hiatus all.

[1:30:54] Go ahead. Ask.

[1:31:20] There we are. That's good.

[1:31:23] Okay.

[1:31:23] >> Apologies. Is that correct?

[1:31:25] » Apologies. Is that correct?

[1:31:25] >> Yeah, that's correct. Thank you.

[1:31:28] » Yeah, that's correct. Thank you.

[1:31:28] >> Okay, everybody reads it. We read again

[1:31:30] » Okay, everybody reads it. We read again

[1:31:30] or we're okay.

[1:31:32] >> Okay. So, go ahead.

[1:31:33] » Okay. So, go ahead.

[1:31:33] >> And now I will call the recorded vote

[1:31:34] » And now I will call the recorded vote

[1:31:34] starting with councelor Harper. Um,

[1:31:37] state yes in support and no in

[1:31:38] opposition, please.

[1:31:42] » Uh, no. Thank you. Councelor

[1:31:47] Dehaney.

[1:31:52] » Yes. I support option one that the

[1:31:53] community improvement plan program

[1:31:56] remain an iatus and move further action

[1:31:58] be taken at this time.

[1:32:01] >> Councelor Dying.

[1:32:04] » Councelor Dying.

[1:32:04] >> Councelor Farerini.

[1:32:05] » Councelor Farerini.

[1:32:06] >> Yes.

[1:32:06] » Yes.

[1:32:06] >> Councelor Geodeno.

[1:32:08] » Councelor Geodeno.

[1:32:08] >> Yes.

[1:32:09] » Yes.

[1:32:09] >> Councelor Scott.

[1:32:11] » Councelor Scott.

[1:32:11] >> Councelor Vike.

[1:32:14] » Councelor Vike.

[1:32:14] Deputy Mayor Sandu.

[1:32:15] >> Yes.

[1:32:16] » Yes.

[1:32:16] >> Mayor Leuk.

[1:32:19] » Mayor Leuk.

[1:32:19] >> The motion.

[1:32:21] » The motion.

[1:32:21] >> The motion is carried.

[1:32:25] » Okay. Thank you. We are on to uh 9.2 now

[1:32:29] then. And it's update on Bradford on

[1:32:32] demand transit. Uh our presentation from

[1:32:34] our deputy CEO Mahesh Ramdeo. Floor is

[1:32:38] yours.

[1:32:44] Thank you, Mayor Luk.

[1:32:47] Just give a few minutes, a few seconds.

[1:32:57] So, uh, again, thank you, Mayor Luk,

[1:33:00] Deputy Mayor Sandu, members of council.

[1:33:02] Good evening, Mr. CEO. Good evening.

[1:33:05] First time ever somebody's uh

[1:33:08] uh thank you all for um having me here

[1:33:11] this evening and I wish to start by

[1:33:13] thanking council for their support on

[1:33:16] this the on demand pilot that we've got

[1:33:18] so far um and also to thank staff uh

[1:33:23] especially Paul Dubinak, Joe Coleman,

[1:33:25] Tony D. Ro, Vanessa Morum, Karen

[1:33:28] McKenna, senior management, and

[1:33:32] definitely my communication team who's

[1:33:34] been helping in terms of the

[1:33:36] communication with the public and with

[1:33:37] this presentation. So, thanks to all of

[1:33:39] them.

[1:33:41] In many ways, what I'm going to present

[1:33:43] tonight is

[1:33:45] uh a story of success and challenges

[1:33:48] that really come with success. Um, and

[1:33:51] that's what this this story is about

[1:33:52] this evening.

[1:33:54] Tara, could you?

[1:34:00] Okay.

[1:34:04] I'd like to start with where we began

[1:34:07] what we began with and where we are

[1:34:09] today and some of the the the

[1:34:11] recommendations

[1:34:13] out of our 2031 transit master plan.

[1:34:17] Prior to the on demand pilot, we had a

[1:34:20] fixed bus system, a fixed transit system

[1:34:23] with three routes.

[1:34:25] We saw in 2024, we saw about 60,000

[1:34:28] annual rides. And on April 2nd, the day

[1:34:31] before we started the on demand transit,

[1:34:34] we had 13 174

[1:34:38] rides on the system.

[1:34:42] The 2031 transit master plan had

[1:34:45] highlighted a gap in the system of

[1:34:49] not full coverage of the urban areas of

[1:34:52] Bradford, not full coverage of Bradford

[1:34:55] and made some recommendations going out

[1:34:57] to 2031. Those recommendations required

[1:35:00] 17 buses. The transit master plan did

[1:35:03] not cost out the capital. I worked it

[1:35:05] out to 1.6 million annual cost. It

[1:35:09] estimated an operating cost of about

[1:35:11] five of 4.5 million for a total cost of

[1:35:14] 6.1.

[1:35:15] That for us poses a constraint. Um

[1:35:18] Bradford as a town would be challenged

[1:35:21] to fund that.

[1:35:23] residents had had indicated that they

[1:35:26] prefer full coverage to the low um the

[1:35:29] areas of low coverage within the

[1:35:31] community an increase in the number of

[1:35:32] routes increased frequency and

[1:35:34] definitely uh connections to the the

[1:35:37] higher level transit of go and the

[1:35:39] links.

[1:35:41] So the challenge for us is how do we

[1:35:43] deliver how could we deliver on that um

[1:35:46] given the constraints that we had.

[1:35:49] So

[1:35:52] what would be the benefits of delivering

[1:35:54] on that a better m public system public

[1:35:57] transit system?

[1:35:59] The 2031 transit master plan had

[1:36:01] suggested that if we got to 420,000

[1:36:04] rides in 2031 we could see upwards of

[1:36:09] 16.5 million in economic benefit.

[1:36:12] That is in straight up economic benefit

[1:36:15] and savings to the individuals that

[1:36:16] could be spent within the community.

[1:36:19] The Canadian Public Health Association

[1:36:21] in 2019 had said that people who live in

[1:36:24] communities with good transit drive half

[1:36:26] as much and could save up to $10,000 per

[1:36:30] year per household.

[1:36:33] David Suzuki Foundation said it improves

[1:36:35] quality of life.

[1:36:38] I'd like you to to put the 10,000 into

[1:36:41] context and to

[1:36:45] imagine a future where we could create

[1:36:47] where residents would not need multiple

[1:36:49] cars would be able to save that kind of

[1:36:51] money. Reduce cost of living within

[1:36:53] Bradford hopefully becomes one of the

[1:36:56] attracting tools to Bradford. More

[1:36:58] people coming here, more labor coming

[1:37:00] here, increases in the labor force could

[1:37:02] have a a follow on effect of employers

[1:37:06] moving here because there is the labor

[1:37:08] force. The cost of doing business here

[1:37:10] is lower lower. That means more economic

[1:37:12] development, more jobs, more benefits.

[1:37:15] That's the future that I think we could

[1:37:17] get to. Next one, please.

[1:37:23] So in November 2024,

[1:37:26] council endorsed a shift from the the

[1:37:28] fixed transit system to an on demand

[1:37:30] pilot.

[1:37:33] Just to go back a little bit what an

[1:37:34] ondemand service really is. It's a

[1:37:37] service where riders could choose could

[1:37:39] call a ride via an app or a phone call.

[1:37:43] Um and it will be they'll be serviced in

[1:37:45] real time rather than following a fixed

[1:37:47] route system that's on a schedule. Um,

[1:37:50] it could allow for a more personalized

[1:37:52] service, uh, flexible pickup near their

[1:37:55] where they pick up and drop off near

[1:37:58] where they're going, making it more

[1:38:00] convenient. And in an area like Bradford

[1:38:03] where you've got um lower ridership

[1:38:07] and somewhat inefficient fixed transit,

[1:38:10] it could improve your efficiencies.

[1:38:12] Um, it has the potential of serving all

[1:38:15] of Bradford at a lower cost. um

[1:38:18] increasing frequencies and connecting to

[1:38:19] the trans the higher level transit.

[1:38:23] When we put the system together, our

[1:38:25] thought process was we're starting at

[1:38:27] 60,000 rights per year. We could most

[1:38:30] definitely achieve what Inisville has

[1:38:33] with a shared ride service. That is

[1:38:36] 95,000 rides per year.

[1:38:39] A number to keep in mind is that 95,000

[1:38:42] rides equates to about 300 rides per

[1:38:44] day.

[1:38:46] We started at 174 on April 2nd. I can

[1:38:49] tell you on April 28th, which is when I

[1:38:52] put this presentation together, we did

[1:38:55] 427 rights that day. So, we are

[1:38:58] definitely in four months ahead of what

[1:39:01] we had planned for. That's the success

[1:39:03] and the challenge that comes with that

[1:39:05] success. Next one, please.

[1:39:10] Don't take it from me. Listen to some of

[1:39:13] the writers.

[1:39:21] My name is Greg K. I've lived in

[1:39:23] Bradford for 14 years.

[1:39:25] >> Name's Bonnie Walker. I was born and

[1:39:27] » Name's Bonnie Walker. I was born and

[1:39:28] raised here.

[1:39:31] » What was it like before Fargo?

[1:39:35] >> Quite expensive to go to hospital for

[1:39:37] » Quite expensive to go to hospital for

[1:39:37] treatment in it. 65 $85 one way.

[1:39:41] >> She had to wait for a while for taxis.

[1:39:43] » She had to wait for a while for taxis.

[1:39:43] So there were nights where I might walk

[1:39:45] about 45 plus minutes home.

[1:39:50] >> Do you happen to like to wait in the

[1:39:51] » Do you happen to like to wait in the

[1:39:51] winter time? You like to wait for half

[1:39:54] an hour cuz you just missed the bus.

[1:39:57] Enjoy.

[1:40:06] Before Argo, a lot of my staff would use

[1:40:08] a ride sharing type service. They now

[1:40:11] have the opportunity to get that

[1:40:13] doortodoor service. Usually when I go to

[1:40:16] concerts, we order the artgo and we go

[1:40:19] to the station and then we take the

[1:40:21] train and it's wonderful.

[1:40:24] I use it like five times the same day.

[1:40:28] With a I save a lot of money.

[1:40:31] >> It's a phenomenal service. I get my card

[1:40:34] » It's a phenomenal service. I get my card

[1:40:34] on the bus and I can travel all day long

[1:40:37] delivering honey and it cost me $7

[1:40:39] because it's an hour and a half for a

[1:40:41] dollar. The app is absolutely fantastic.

[1:40:44] They're extremely good drivers. I like

[1:40:47] the door to door service especially come

[1:40:48] like the winter time. You can stay in

[1:40:50] your house. You can look out your window

[1:40:52] instead of crossing a busy intersection

[1:40:54] with my two kids who both have autism.

[1:40:57] So have the Argo service. It's just a

[1:40:59] safer way of transportation.

[1:41:02] The bus has been a godsend for me.

[1:41:05] That's really opened up the doors for me

[1:41:07] and others here.

[1:41:11] [Music]

[1:41:14] It makes me happy. They can go places

[1:41:16] that they wouldn't be able to go. Argo

[1:41:19] have made significant difference in the

[1:41:22] communities.

[1:41:26] » Because of Argo, it's been a different

[1:41:28] way of life.

[1:41:42] Go to the next slide, please.

[1:41:47] Thank you.

[1:41:51] In the 2031 transit master plan, one of

[1:41:53] the themes, the common themes that kept

[1:41:55] coming up was to increase service to

[1:41:59] the urban core to the Bradford area.

[1:42:02] What you're looking at here is a

[1:42:05] comparison.

[1:42:07] On the left are the air the stops on the

[1:42:10] fixed transit system. on the right

[1:42:13] represents one month worth of data

[1:42:16] really late June into July of all the

[1:42:19] stops, all the pickups, all the drop

[1:42:21] offs within the community.

[1:42:25] That is a full coverage.

[1:42:27] We then took that one step further. What

[1:42:29] we did was to take the the trips on the

[1:42:32] right and imagine what h what would

[1:42:34] happen if those were with fixed transit.

[1:42:38] And we computed what the the wait time

[1:42:40] would be, what the right time would be,

[1:42:42] what the walking time would be. And what

[1:42:44] you see the numbers below are the

[1:42:46] comparison of the median rides on fixed

[1:42:49] transit.

[1:42:51] The median trip time, total trip time

[1:42:52] would be 69 minutes.

[1:42:55] The median trip time on on demand

[1:42:58] transit was close to 26 minutes.

[1:43:02] So there is a benefit, but there are

[1:43:05] challenges with it. Did you go to the

[1:43:07] next one?

[1:43:13] Uh, something is supposed to come up

[1:43:14] here. One more, please.

[1:43:17] Yeah, there we go.

[1:43:20] There we go.

[1:43:22] This one I'm going to blame on it slow

[1:43:24] systems.

[1:43:26] Um, challenges. In July,

[1:43:30] we did just over 9,100 trips to when I

[1:43:34] put this presentation together.

[1:43:36] We had 57 complaints. Of that 57

[1:43:39] complaints, half of it was for weight

[1:43:42] times, and I'll speak to that in a

[1:43:43] second. 30% of it were about the app and

[1:43:48] primarily about

[1:43:50] not being sure where the pickup location

[1:43:52] would be and where the drop off

[1:43:53] location, how to get there. Um, some

[1:43:57] were on driver. We did some

[1:43:58] investigation there. Um a fair number of

[1:44:01] those were actually customer

[1:44:04] interaction complaints.

[1:44:07] Um could you go forward please?

[1:44:10] So how were we addressing the weight

[1:44:12] times?

[1:44:13] One of the things that we heard from the

[1:44:15] residents

[1:44:17] um around wait time was not so much that

[1:44:20] they had to wait a long time and to be

[1:44:24] to be transparent to everyone in our

[1:44:27] peak periods which is generally in the

[1:44:29] afternoons wait times what we call the

[1:44:31] P95 wait time which is 95 5% of the

[1:44:35] weight time could approach an hour

[1:44:39] that is a direct indication of demand

[1:44:44] outstripping supply. So you have to wait

[1:44:46] until the bus becomes available. Um

[1:44:50] around that as well, some of the

[1:44:52] concern, some of the anxiety was needing

[1:44:55] to get somewhere by a specific time and

[1:44:58] not being sure

[1:45:00] um if you're going to get there by that

[1:45:01] time.

[1:45:03] So as a team we've looked at how can we

[1:45:05] resolve this and one of the improve

[1:45:07] improvements that will be coming out

[1:45:08] within the next month in September would

[1:45:11] be around predictability of your ride.

[1:45:14] If you plan ahead you can get to your

[1:45:16] location at the time you want. So how

[1:45:19] are we going to do that?

[1:45:21] We'll allow so the the update that's

[1:45:24] coming is to preschedu your ride. book

[1:45:27] it in advance and you can book days in

[1:45:29] advance and you can book repeated rides

[1:45:31] every day. Um and the system will track

[1:45:34] those for you one hour in advance of

[1:45:37] that ride. You will get a reminder your

[1:45:40] ride is in coming in an hour. Please

[1:45:42] reconfirm. If you've reconfirmed that we

[1:45:45] will guarantee that you will arrive

[1:45:47] within on that time.

[1:45:51] So that will give the predictability

[1:45:54] that riders are looking for. Um, yes,

[1:45:57] there is a catch that could end up

[1:46:00] everybody prescheduling. We don't

[1:46:02] believe we will get there. Um, but what

[1:46:05] we're allowing is that with planning

[1:46:06] ahead, you can have full control of what

[1:46:09] is it you want to do. And that's where

[1:46:12] we're going with this one. So, that's in

[1:46:14] September.

[1:46:17] Could you go to the next one, please?

[1:46:24] The other complaints that we did receive

[1:46:25] on the app was

[1:46:28] not knowing or not knowing how to get to

[1:46:30] the location of pickup. Um, right now

[1:46:33] the app does show you a way to get

[1:46:36] there. It could be improved. So within

[1:46:39] the next two weeks, you will get that

[1:46:40] walking direction on the app to get

[1:46:43] there.

[1:46:44] So that's coming in September. Another

[1:46:48] roll out will be if you're going to the

[1:46:50] GO station,

[1:46:52] the app will show you the trip time, the

[1:46:56] scheduled trip times for the transit

[1:46:58] there.

[1:47:00] So you you'll be able to plan your trip

[1:47:01] with planning ahead. You'll be able to

[1:47:03] plan your your trips out. That's where

[1:47:05] we're going with this. And these are

[1:47:07] coming in September. So again, if you're

[1:47:10] willing to plan at least an hour ahead,

[1:47:12] you can have control of your experience.

[1:47:14] And that's what this is about.

[1:47:18] Go ahead, please.

[1:47:27] So, what are we projecting?

[1:47:30] This projection here is a measured

[1:47:33] approach of where we think we can go

[1:47:35] towards building to the 420,000

[1:47:39] annual rise that the 2031 master plan

[1:47:42] had recommended. And that was 2031.

[1:47:46] Why is it a measured approach like this?

[1:47:49] Two reasons

[1:47:52] staff internally we've discussed that it

[1:47:55] is better to grow into the demand,

[1:47:58] manage our resources to get there, drive

[1:48:00] efficiencies to get there versus

[1:48:03] expanding the system right now and

[1:48:05] taking and growing those inefficiencies.

[1:48:07] So this is a measured growth to get

[1:48:09] there. Um also to grow to this level

[1:48:13] would require a fair bit of

[1:48:15] infrastructure that we don't today have.

[1:48:17] We will have to build that if we get

[1:48:19] there. Um so this takes a measured

[1:48:21] approach to get there. What I'm looking

[1:48:24] for um

[1:48:26] going forward is procurement process

[1:48:29] that allows us to do this and allows us

[1:48:31] to do this in the most cost effective

[1:48:33] way.

[1:48:36] The challenge with getting to what I

[1:48:39] just showed you is funding it. How do we

[1:48:42] fund it? Honestly, Bradford as a

[1:48:45] community, unless we do some massive

[1:48:48] um internal revenue generation would be

[1:48:52] a challenge. We need a partner on this.

[1:48:56] We've reached out to the province. We've

[1:48:58] had initial conversations with the

[1:48:59] province. We've shared with them a draft

[1:49:02] application and we've had discussions of

[1:49:05] that draft applications and they've

[1:49:06] given us feedback.

[1:49:10] That process or that funding window

[1:49:16] is for a five-year fund

[1:49:19] that allows us to set the system and

[1:49:23] grow our own internal revenues through

[1:49:26] various means so that at the end of five

[1:49:28] years it is sustainable. So they will

[1:49:31] fund the gap up to that point. Our

[1:49:34] thinking to fund um sustainability will

[1:49:37] be a number of things that will be

[1:49:38] subject to to council's endorsement.

[1:49:41] The ideas that we're looking at right

[1:49:43] now are targeted uh fair increases. I

[1:49:46] say targeted because

[1:49:48] it would be to the demographic that can

[1:49:50] afford it. We are looking at um

[1:49:58] we are looking at um revenue growth

[1:50:02] through sponsorship through advertising.

[1:50:05] We are looking at revenue growth through

[1:50:08] um

[1:50:10] assessment growth that this will drive

[1:50:13] um a number of different ways to get to

[1:50:15] that sustainable measures. But that's

[1:50:18] where we need to get to.

[1:50:21] We're also looking at other funding

[1:50:23] sources such as the green fund and

[1:50:25] anything that comes up we are targeting.

[1:50:27] But the idea is to target consistent

[1:50:30] repeatable funding sources to augment.

[1:50:33] We already have one that will last for

[1:50:35] 10 years. This is for capital. We'll be

[1:50:37] looking for more like those. Um the last

[1:50:40] one that will drive that will happen to

[1:50:41] us is that if we can drive our ridership

[1:50:44] from 60,000 to 350 400,000 it will

[1:50:49] result in an increase in the Canada

[1:50:50] community uh benefits fund the gas tax

[1:50:53] and that will be a funding source for us

[1:50:54] going up as well. We see that we can get

[1:50:58] to sustainability in five to six years.

[1:51:00] We see a path to that. Next one please.

[1:51:10] So, this is what we're looking to do

[1:51:12] over the next uh a few months.

[1:51:15] Release start a procurement process for

[1:51:17] a five-year TR uh contract. And why a

[1:51:20] five-year contract?

[1:51:22] Anybody who's coming in um and I can't

[1:51:27] predicate what I'm doing that's saying

[1:51:30] the pilot will continue. No, it's not

[1:51:32] that. This is going to a competitive

[1:51:34] procurement process that there is a

[1:51:36] potential that it could be somebody new.

[1:51:38] Whoever is coming

[1:51:41] will need to invest a significant amount

[1:51:44] in terms of startup costs. They need to

[1:51:46] recover that. If the procurement period,

[1:51:49] if the the contract period is short,

[1:51:51] they will look to recover that in that

[1:51:53] short period. Higher annual cost to us.

[1:51:56] So this is looking at a reasonable way

[1:51:58] for them to spread that. So we get the

[1:51:59] the the biggest benefit from that.

[1:52:04] It would be based on options.

[1:52:06] One is we get the full funding from the

[1:52:08] province and therefore it could be

[1:52:10] funded and going forward. But a second

[1:52:12] option would be we don't get that

[1:52:14] funding and we need to work within our

[1:52:16] own funding source. If that happens, we

[1:52:18] would have to look back at the

[1:52:20] writership numbers and how we get to

[1:52:22] that and what we could internally

[1:52:25] afford.

[1:52:27] The RFP, we're looking to release it

[1:52:29] later in August, close it in October,

[1:52:32] evaluate and have something by the end

[1:52:34] of October, early November. Um, and we

[1:52:37] would have to come to council for that

[1:52:38] award. That's not something that's going

[1:52:40] to be at a staff level. So it'll be here

[1:52:43] back at council for the discussion in

[1:52:44] terms of funding where we're going and

[1:52:46] how we're paying for it all. Um

[1:52:50] that period will allow six months that

[1:52:52] assuming that it's it could potentially

[1:52:54] be someone new

[1:52:56] allowing that mobilization period for

[1:52:58] them to get their act and get their

[1:53:00] resources here and that's what it is and

[1:53:02] that brings me to the end.

[1:53:06] >> All right. Thank you very much for that

[1:53:07] » All right. Thank you very much for that

[1:53:07] report. I have a few people that went

[1:53:10] right away. So I will go right. The

[1:53:12] first one that hit me was councelor

[1:53:13] and then councelor Jordano next.

[1:53:18] So

[1:53:19] the comments that I've received from so

[1:53:21] many residents is that this system is a

[1:53:24] gamecher for them and it's also from

[1:53:27] what I'm seeing on the map the fixed

[1:53:29] routes

[1:53:31] only serve maybe half the population in

[1:53:33] town because the fixed roots were over

[1:53:36] here over here. But if you lived over

[1:53:38] here, you'd have to walk 20 minutes or

[1:53:41] 15 minutes to get to the bus. That

[1:53:43] didn't make any sense at all. And then

[1:53:45] if the fixed route didn't take you to

[1:53:47] where you needed to go, you'd have to

[1:53:50] walk it. So that made no sense. It was

[1:53:52] just as well, you might as well just

[1:53:53] walk the uh half an hour to get to where

[1:53:56] you needed to go. So the tra public

[1:53:58] transit system only served a small small

[1:54:01] percentage of the town. And you had

[1:54:03] three buses going around. they were

[1:54:06] always empty. Maybe they had two or

[1:54:08] three people in there. So, we were

[1:54:09] basically just wasting money. Um, so I

[1:54:14] would like to move to support this

[1:54:17] recommendation, but I do have a couple

[1:54:18] questions. Um, how do we overcome the

[1:54:23] budget? like how do if if we want to

[1:54:25] award the contract in November 2025, we

[1:54:29] haven't completed the budget process,

[1:54:31] wouldn't it make more sense to award the

[1:54:33] contract after we've completed our

[1:54:35] budget

[1:54:41] uh through Mayor Lukai.

[1:54:43] Fair point. Um the hope is at that point

[1:54:47] in time we would have received word on

[1:54:50] the provincial funding so we'll know the

[1:54:51] funding sources that we've got and we

[1:54:53] could come to you and say okay here are

[1:54:54] the funding sources here how we can fund

[1:54:56] this without impacting the tax base.

[1:54:59] That's the hope.

[1:55:02] >> And if we don't then

[1:55:04] » And if we don't then

[1:55:04] >> plan B,

[1:55:05] » plan B,

[1:55:05] >> what's plan B?

[1:55:07] » what's plan B?

[1:55:07] >> Coming back to to you for to council to

[1:55:10] » Coming back to to you for to council to

[1:55:10] evaluate an option that stays within

[1:55:13] what is it we can afford to fund.

[1:55:18] » Okay, I've got councelor Gordano and

[1:55:20] then councelor Scott.

[1:55:23] >> Well, thanks for the presentation. I

[1:55:25] » Well, thanks for the presentation. I

[1:55:25] know we've been talking a lot back and

[1:55:27] forth over email as this thing rolled

[1:55:28] out. So, I just want to start off by

[1:55:30] saying I I really want uh this this kind

[1:55:34] of on demand system to work. I I think

[1:55:36] my wife doesn't drive. I have uh

[1:55:38] children that don't drive yet. It's it

[1:55:40] is a game changer. Um when it works and

[1:55:44] um I definitely endorse the pilot. Um

[1:55:47] there's a few things I just want to talk

[1:55:48] about. So, I don't know if you want to

[1:55:49] write these down and then maybe it's

[1:55:50] easier if I just go through them all and

[1:55:51] then you can answer back. Um but the one

[1:55:53] thing was the presentation. Like we

[1:55:54] didn't have access to that video ahead

[1:55:56] of time. It didn't work in our uh in our

[1:55:58] system here to view it, but I did find

[1:56:00] that it was very handpicked advantageous

[1:56:02] promotional video. It wasn't really uh

[1:56:04] it was just only showcasing lovers of

[1:56:06] the system. Um I I would have liked

[1:56:08] something maybe a little more

[1:56:09] transparent and uh showing not just the

[1:56:13] people that are loving it, but also

[1:56:15] maybe some of the challenges that

[1:56:16] they're working through. Um like there's

[1:56:18] one gentleman who's actually running a

[1:56:19] business uh being subsidized a dollar a

[1:56:22] ride to deliver products. I don't think

[1:56:24] that was the intent of this. This is a

[1:56:26] public transportation system, not to

[1:56:27] subsidize somebody's business. Um,

[1:56:29] anyways,

[1:56:31] um, a few things that I want to talk

[1:56:34] about. Like I know we're talking about

[1:56:35] successes, but realistically I don't

[1:56:37] think we're able to raise the flag of

[1:56:39] success yet. Although it it works

[1:56:40] fantastically, there's a few concerns

[1:56:42] that we've had. And just remember that

[1:56:43] the public didn't have access to this.

[1:56:45] Only a select few people had access to

[1:56:47] this and we slowly started rolling it

[1:56:48] out. Heck, I had to constantly mail the

[1:56:51] deputy CEO to try to get users on it.

[1:56:54] like that's not in my opinion a pilot. I

[1:56:57] think we're way too premature to say

[1:56:58] that it's a successful pilot at this

[1:57:00] point. Um,

[1:57:02] so at the end of the day, we still

[1:57:04] haven't rolled out the app there. People

[1:57:06] are are having to walk to a station

[1:57:09] needing a cell phone in order to call to

[1:57:12] say, "Hey, I need a I need a a bus

[1:57:14] pickup." Oh, okay. It'll be there in 20

[1:57:16] minutes. Okay, great. Now, when the bus

[1:57:18] when you have the app, the bus says,

[1:57:19] "Oh, I'm being delayed, so it'll come in

[1:57:21] another 3540 minutes." But the people

[1:57:23] who are at the bus, they don't know

[1:57:25] that. So now they're sitting there

[1:57:26] waiting and then they got to call back.

[1:57:27] Oh, sorry. It's delay another 20

[1:57:28] minutes. So they've already been outside

[1:57:29] for 40 minutes, waiting for uh the bus

[1:57:32] to come. So these are the gaps that we

[1:57:34] need to get solved. Um because right now

[1:57:37] those types of situations, people are

[1:57:39] like, I might as well just walk at this

[1:57:40] point right now. When it does come

[1:57:42] relatively quickly or on time, it's

[1:57:44] fantastic. It's door-todoor service a

[1:57:46] lot of cases. And I agree, when you look

[1:57:48] at the coverage, it's far better than

[1:57:50] what we've had in the past. So, I I do I

[1:57:52] do want to say some of that, but I think

[1:57:53] we need to roll out this pilot longer

[1:57:55] and collect more actual data. Um, again,

[1:57:59] the wait times, it's caused people to

[1:58:01] miss uh meetings. There's lots of people

[1:58:03] that I've spoken to me saying like, I

[1:58:04] love it, but then the odd time I just I

[1:58:06] I can't get there on time or delays me,

[1:58:07] delays me, delays me, and I'm stuck, you

[1:58:09] know, missing an appointment or being

[1:58:10] charged for an appointment that I

[1:58:11] couldn't get to in time. Uh, the the on

[1:58:14] demand pre-booking, that's a gamecher. I

[1:58:16] think that's huge. I love that and I

[1:58:18] think that's the future to probably make

[1:58:21] this more successful than what it is

[1:58:22] right now. U but my concern is is that

[1:58:25] you made a guarantee. You said that

[1:58:27] there's a guarantee to get you on time.

[1:58:29] I want to know more about this guarantee

[1:58:30] because I'll tell you right now, if you

[1:58:32] have a snowstorm, if there's an

[1:58:33] accident, if there's just heavy demand,

[1:58:36] what guarantee are we giving people?

[1:58:37] That's a that's a that's something that

[1:58:39] needs to be addressed that you didn't do

[1:58:40] it in your presentation. Um, I want to

[1:58:43] see the app actually rolled out to

[1:58:44] everybody to the the public because

[1:58:46] right now it's only been selected given.

[1:58:48] So, the last thing is that we haven't

[1:58:51] even ran these buses in the winter time.

[1:58:52] We don't even know if these buses can go

[1:58:53] through 4 inches of snow. We don't know

[1:58:55] any of this data. It's got little

[1:58:56] wheels. It's low to the ground. It's

[1:58:58] battery powered. We don't know how these

[1:58:59] things will perform. I'd like to at

[1:59:00] least go through the winter time and see

[1:59:02] the performance before we go ahead and

[1:59:04] and say, "Let's do a 5-year contract and

[1:59:05] roll it out." These are all important

[1:59:07] pieces of data that's missing from your

[1:59:09] so-called successful pilot. We're not

[1:59:12] there yet. We said a one-year pilot. I

[1:59:14] want to count one year when it rolls out

[1:59:16] to the public, not from the day we

[1:59:17] started and we slowly drip drip drip

[1:59:18] drip drip to people. It has to be one

[1:59:20] year as an actual transit system in

[1:59:23] order for me to have the data to say

[1:59:24] that this is fully supported. Um, and

[1:59:28] then the last thing I want to say,

[1:59:29] whether it's our old transit system, new

[1:59:31] transit system, this transit system, we

[1:59:33] need to connect to Henderson Park.

[1:59:35] I I think I think at some point we need

[1:59:37] to figure out how to do that as soon as

[1:59:39] possible. That that place is an absolute

[1:59:40] gem and it's not being connected and we

[1:59:43] can't get there safely. Nobody can ride

[1:59:44] their bikes or walk there and like

[1:59:46] there's so many families that would

[1:59:48] utilize that place so much more during

[1:59:49] the day. So that's a priority for me for

[1:59:51] this transit system. Thank you.

[1:59:56] » You want to respond to any questions?

[1:59:58] Sure.

[1:59:59] >> Um

[2:00:01] » Um

[2:00:01] I wrote them down so I'll I'll go

[2:00:03] through all of them. One of them I might

[2:00:05] need some help. Um

[2:00:08] the video you mentioned the challenges

[2:00:10] that is exactly why I had the subsequent

[2:00:14] slide on the challenges. It this is

[2:00:16] about transparency. Um whilst 9,100 plus

[2:00:22] rides happened from July 1st to July 28

[2:00:27] when I put this together, we had 57

[2:00:30] complaints. And that's why I wanted to

[2:00:33] put that out there.

[2:00:34] um what those complaints were, the

[2:00:37] general categories because it's it's

[2:00:39] about transparency,

[2:00:42] bus delays. Um first of all, the app,

[2:00:45] everybody has access to the app. Um

[2:00:54] » just let let him finish.

[2:01:00] Everybody has access to the app and when

[2:01:02] it comes as I said in the presentation

[2:01:05] when it comes to

[2:01:07] wait time that is happening when the

[2:01:11] demand for the service exceeds the

[2:01:13] capacity of the service. Um and that's a

[2:01:16] resource issue and that's something

[2:01:17] we're hoping that with the provincial

[2:01:19] help we'll be able to resolve. It's not

[2:01:22] something to be honest, it's not

[2:01:23] something that we've got as a town.

[2:01:26] We've got the resources to put to that.

[2:01:29] Um, so we we do need some help. Why is

[2:01:32] it a benefit that we've been telling the

[2:01:34] province? It drives economic growth. Not

[2:01:37] only does it drive quality of life, it

[2:01:39] drives economic growth. When it

[2:01:41] something drives economic growth, the

[2:01:43] province benefits, the feds benefit more

[2:01:45] so than we do. Um, so we need them to

[2:01:48] come to the table as well. And that's

[2:01:49] been the conversation. They've been good

[2:01:51] in that they've come to the table.

[2:01:52] They've looked at what is it we've

[2:01:53] proposed. They've um they've given us

[2:01:55] feedback and they've asked for a

[2:01:57] resubmitt. So, we'll at least they're

[2:01:58] talking to us as opposed to reviewing

[2:02:01] and that's the end of it. So, we're I am

[2:02:03] hopeful. I'm on that particular part. Um

[2:02:07] you mentioned missing meetings, you also

[2:02:09] mentioned the the app in terms of the

[2:02:12] being able to plan ahead. Yes, that will

[2:02:14] be a game changer. um it'll roll out

[2:02:16] next month. So, we'll see where that

[2:02:18] goes and how that goes. Um

[2:02:22] why coming now for an update and saying

[2:02:25] we need to go forward? I can't make a

[2:02:28] decision assuming that it will be the

[2:02:30] same provider going forward. I have to

[2:02:34] consider that there is a potential that

[2:02:35] someone else some other firm could be

[2:02:38] successful and if they were successful

[2:02:41] they would need time to remobilize time

[2:02:43] to set up their infrastructure to start

[2:02:45] on April 1st. They need timing ahead of

[2:02:49] that. If I were to wait to the end of

[2:02:51] the pilot which is April f March 31st

[2:02:54] then they would not have that time to

[2:02:56] mobilize. Um that would be a challenge

[2:02:59] for us. So that is why I'm here now. Um

[2:03:02] Henderson Park. Yeah, it would be nice

[2:03:04] to have right resourcing. So with the

[2:03:07] province help, maybe we can do that.

[2:03:12] » Yeah, good answer. So sorry, I I I was

[2:03:14] misspoken. There was the app that just

[2:03:17] recently was made available to everyone.

[2:03:19] What date was that?

[2:03:20] >> Uh uh little

[2:03:24] » Yeah, early July.

[2:03:26] >> Right. So about a month.

[2:03:29] » Right. So about a month.

[2:03:29] >> So that's how I look at a pilot. we'd

[2:03:31] » So that's how I look at a pilot. we'd

[2:03:31] really only have the public available

[2:03:32] for a month to really use this. We've

[2:03:34] had a select bunch of people slowly

[2:03:36] getting dripped onto it. Um me

[2:03:39] personally, is there an opportunity for

[2:03:41] us to extend the pilot till maybe July

[2:03:43] of next year, therefore giving you a

[2:03:46] whole year's worth of users data in

[2:03:49] order to understand and to shape and

[2:03:50] look at it. Why are we rushing right

[2:03:52] away for an April 1 arbitrary deadline?

[2:03:54] I think we can extend the uh the pilot

[2:03:57] or at least go through the full winter

[2:03:58] and utilize that. I'm not comfortable

[2:04:00] any transit system that's a pilot from a

[2:04:03] brand new concept that doesn't really

[2:04:05] exist in in Ontario that I'm aware of. I

[2:04:07] think there there's one or two people

[2:04:08] are trying it out as well. But the point

[2:04:10] is is that we we got to be careful

[2:04:13] before we go all in on anything. And I'd

[2:04:15] like to see more data personally. I'd

[2:04:16] like to see more user experience

[2:04:18] information and and frankly, you know,

[2:04:21] get the bugs and figured out not just

[2:04:22] from this company, but from in general

[2:04:23] because there might be other things

[2:04:24] throughout the winter that we might

[2:04:25] understand because these these buses,

[2:04:27] although they're electric, they're also

[2:04:28] equipped with a diesel engine. Correct.

[2:04:29] That also helps maybe the heating

[2:04:31] systems or something like that in the

[2:04:32] winter time or I'm not sure how that

[2:04:34] works, but I want to see how that

[2:04:35] performs as well. I want to understand

[2:04:36] what it's like in, you know, with with

[2:04:38] the icy or snowy weather. How much

[2:04:40] longer does it take for on demand

[2:04:42] service to work? I think this is

[2:04:43] important data. I don't want to rush

[2:04:44] this.

[2:04:47] Okay, thank you. You are you responding

[2:04:49] to anything or

[2:04:50] >> I can respond to the last part if if you

[2:04:52] » I can respond to the last part if if you

[2:04:52] wishes. Um again through you mayor Luk.

[2:04:56] Uh we do have some Arargo folks here who

[2:04:58] can speak to you in terms of the

[2:04:59] performance of the buses during winter.

[2:05:02] Um we did start on April 3rd that first

[2:05:05] half of April it was operating and

[2:05:07] weather down to minus 7 minus five those

[2:05:11] right. Um so it was operating in terms

[2:05:14] of these buses have been used in Halifax

[2:05:17] have been used in Oakville for at least

[2:05:19] for the last winter probably two

[2:05:20] winters. Um if you're looking for data

[2:05:23] on in how it's performed there we can

[2:05:26] get that to you right I can you wish it

[2:05:28] now Argo is here or we can give you that

[2:05:31] data later.

[2:05:32] Okay thank you I've got councelor Scott

[2:05:35] next and councelor Harper.

[2:05:39] Um, thank you uh to the deputy CEO, all

[2:05:41] the staff and the team from Argo. This

[2:05:44] has been an innovative project and the

[2:05:46] roll out started off frankly better than

[2:05:48] I expected with the initial transit

[2:05:50] riders then phasing into the app opening

[2:05:52] this summer. Ridership more than

[2:05:55] doubling over the first few months is

[2:05:57] huge. We've expanded coverage as council

[2:05:59] said additional hours. We're

[2:06:02] reaching more residents more often and

[2:06:04] we were one of the first anywhere to

[2:06:06] launch a fully electric app-based on

[2:06:08] demand transit system and I think that's

[2:06:10] something we should be proud of. The

[2:06:12] success has brought inevitable pressure.

[2:06:15] demand is outpacing supply, especially

[2:06:18] during peak hours as was referenced. And

[2:06:21] it's the wait time variability that I

[2:06:23] think's become a real concern. And we've

[2:06:25] started to hear it may have been 57

[2:06:28] complaints, but I think we heard every

[2:06:30] all 57 of them. So, I'm I'm glad to see

[2:06:35] staff looking into the pre-booking

[2:06:36] options for people with set uh

[2:06:38] schedules. I I think that'll help

[2:06:40] commuters. Getting ahead of the back to

[2:06:42] school season where I think we're going

[2:06:44] to see demand spike during peak hours is

[2:06:46] also going to be huge. So, I support

[2:06:48] that direction. I think that's another

[2:06:50] innovative innovative tweak to try and

[2:06:53] improve the app. And Uber to an extent

[2:06:56] has that feature. Um, I like where we're

[2:06:59] going there. It's going to go a long way

[2:07:01] to improving reliability and confidence

[2:07:03] in the system if you know that you can

[2:07:05] book to get to work or get to school. Uh

[2:07:08] I do think we still have opportunities

[2:07:10] to really integrate with the county's

[2:07:12] links bus system. That's what serves

[2:07:14] bond head to some extent right now and

[2:07:17] other parts of the highway 400 uh jobs

[2:07:20] corridor and trying to find a way to

[2:07:23] almost do a handoff between someone

[2:07:25] coming from Bondad into Bradford. I'd

[2:07:28] like to see that and the same with the

[2:07:29] go bus because that serves our our rural

[2:07:31] Young Street corridor and and

[2:07:33] integrating between the intra regional,

[2:07:36] the regional and the local transit is is

[2:07:39] something that I don't really think many

[2:07:42] municipalities do well. The TTC maybe in

[2:07:45] the Tobico but less so in Scar Bro. Uh

[2:07:48] so trying to fix that would be huge. Um

[2:07:51] just a few questions. You you mentioned

[2:07:52] advertising. We had an ad program on the

[2:07:55] fixed route bus. So, what happened to

[2:07:58] that? How quickly can we bring it back?

[2:08:01] It is a fullear pilot. Uh, I too want to

[2:08:03] see how it works in wintertime. Uh, and

[2:08:06] a 5-year contract launching for the RFP.

[2:08:08] Why five years? Uh, why not 10 or some

[2:08:12] other number? And then we're essentially

[2:08:15] talking about a public private

[2:08:16] partnership here. and and I know our our

[2:08:19] previous bus system we contracted with a

[2:08:22] a bus company, but are we sure that

[2:08:24] federal or provincial grants apply here

[2:08:27] uh when we're basically contracting the

[2:08:31] service? So, those are my questions. I

[2:08:34] mean, I I I see the two or three

[2:08:36] opportunities the deputy CEO's outlined

[2:08:38] as as good attempts uh that will help

[2:08:42] write the next chapter in the

[2:08:43] transformation. We're iterating the app

[2:08:45] as we go and I I like to see that. Uh

[2:08:48] but we need to scale it up, improve

[2:08:49] predictability and connect more

[2:08:51] seamlessly to the regional network. I'd

[2:08:53] say those are the three opportunities to

[2:08:55] really improve. And then those two or

[2:08:57] three questions I asked as well, please

[2:09:03] you may lupa councelor uh Scott

[2:09:07] start with um your second question.

[2:09:10] Would the province and federal funding

[2:09:13] apply? The province has said yes. Right.

[2:09:16] Last Wednesday we met and this was one

[2:09:19] of the questions. Um why fiveyear?

[2:09:24] The I'm not going to say the firm

[2:09:27] conversation was around fiveyear.

[2:09:29] The decision on fiveyear

[2:09:32] seemed long enough that allows the

[2:09:36] whoever that proponent is to be able to

[2:09:39] reasonably recover their investment and

[2:09:41] not really tie the municipality. Can we

[2:09:43] look at five plus an option? Yes, that's

[2:09:45] that would be a good good way to look at

[2:09:47] it. Um and we'll take that back from

[2:09:49] you. Um connect to other higher levels

[2:09:53] of levels of transit. Two things are

[2:09:56] happening in that front. One is we

[2:09:57] showed on the app the ability to to see

[2:09:59] what's coming. Um to be able to pre-plan

[2:10:03] something from here, let's say to Alison

[2:10:06] connecting to the links and going

[2:10:07] forward where you seamlessly walk. I

[2:10:10] think the most we'll be able to do is

[2:10:12] show when the bus is coming. So you able

[2:10:14] to connect, you're there in time for it.

[2:10:16] Um but it wouldn't be like an aircraft

[2:10:18] where your stuff wouldn't be like that.

[2:10:21] But you'll need to be able to do that.

[2:10:22] The second thing that staff and I are

[2:10:24] looking at is in terms of links. What

[2:10:28] are the how more can we leverage links

[2:10:30] within the community? It is something

[2:10:32] that we pay for already. So we want to

[2:10:35] be able to leverage that that resource

[2:10:36] that's available to us. Not to replace

[2:10:38] but to augment what is it we have right

[2:10:40] now. And specifically we're looking at

[2:10:42] things like increasing frequency. We

[2:10:44] they they've already made that decision.

[2:10:46] And we're looking at their accessible

[2:10:49] service as well. So those are ways that

[2:10:50] we can connect and leverage.

[2:10:53] >> Thank you. Just quick follow-ups. Uh I

[2:10:56] » Thank you. Just quick follow-ups. Uh I

[2:10:56] do think links and go are key. Lynx runs

[2:10:58] right down the center spine of town. It

[2:11:00] could I think relieve some pressure at

[2:11:03] some times. Go train runs, you know,

[2:11:06] Young Street, Berry Street along Holland

[2:11:08] Street as well. It it actually

[2:11:09] duplicates more than it should with

[2:11:11] links. Perhaps we could hire that out.

[2:11:13] We're going to run an open fair RFP

[2:11:16] process. The manager of procurement's

[2:11:18] nodding at me. We're going to follow

[2:11:20] every procurement rules. That being

[2:11:22] said, I just want to say to the Argo

[2:11:24] folks, we've been your guinea pig for

[2:11:26] the past number of months. You're a tech

[2:11:28] company. I like to think of us as

[2:11:30] something as a founder. It would not be

[2:11:33] good if you didn't win our business back

[2:11:35] for your own expansion. So, I just keep

[2:11:37] hope you keep that in mind when you're

[2:11:39] tailoring your response to the RFP that

[2:11:41] a a founders's deal would go over very

[2:11:43] nicely.

[2:11:46] And just a comment on on the uh

[2:11:50] integrating better with links. Uh the

[2:11:51] county is going through a transit plan

[2:11:53] right now and we're there's a survey out

[2:11:54] there. So we should all we should all

[2:11:56] buy into that survey. Okay. So right now

[2:11:58] I have uh councelor Harour next and then

[2:12:00] councelor dyiky and then I'm going to go

[2:12:02] dep council

[2:12:09] and then councelor shared tahaney.

[2:12:11] Sorry.

[2:12:14] Thank you, mayor.

[2:12:16] Deputy CEO, thank you very much for

[2:12:18] presentation. Um, I'm speaking today not

[2:12:22] really to dispute progress. Um, but I'd

[2:12:26] like to question preparedness

[2:12:29] on four points. Let's talk about some

[2:12:31] highlights that a lot of people have

[2:12:32] talked about here. The on demand transit

[2:12:35] pilot has made some clear strides. It's

[2:12:37] great. Coverage has expanded. clearly

[2:12:41] illustrated that ridership has more than

[2:12:43] doubled. Public feedback is cautiously

[2:12:47] optimistic. I'll be positive on that.

[2:12:50] We've gone from 174 daily trips to over

[2:12:53] 400.

[2:12:55] That's commendable.

[2:12:56] But on a dollar a ride,

[2:13:00] we rode we put the the transit system to

[2:13:03] a dollar because we had low ridership

[2:13:06] before, but we have the wrership now. we

[2:13:09] increase that. What does that look like?

[2:13:12] A pilot is used for certain aspects like

[2:13:14] that and to control and to also make

[2:13:18] offset costs back to the public.

[2:13:22] Progress without accountability is risk.

[2:13:26] And before I'm prepared to endorse a

[2:13:27] long-term service provider, you have not

[2:13:30] provided proof. You provided hearsay

[2:13:33] when you mentioned Argo has winterized

[2:13:37] readiness but failed to provide that to

[2:13:40] us here today. If you had that, why

[2:13:43] didn't you provide it to us? I don't

[2:13:45] like that. We live in Bradford, West

[2:13:47] Wilbury, not Southern California, not

[2:13:50] Vancouver. This David Suzuki plugged

[2:13:52] with 2.8 million people. This is

[2:13:54] Bradford, West Wilbury. We've approved a

[2:13:57] system that's entirely vehicle-based,

[2:14:00] door-todoor, weather sensitive. Yet,

[2:14:03] across all three reports that you

[2:14:05] presented and the presentation, you have

[2:14:07] zero evidence of operational reliability

[2:14:10] in winter conditions.

[2:14:12] Why?

[2:14:14] Why leave that out? Why rush for the

[2:14:17] November? I understand the concepts you

[2:14:20] pushed and why for April,

[2:14:23] but what happens during snow squalls

[2:14:26] here in Bradford that shuts down for

[2:14:29] days. We had a really bad one. It was

[2:14:33] like three days people couldn't move. I

[2:14:35] had I had whole subdivisions

[2:14:39] complaining because we couldn't even get

[2:14:40] plows down there. What is that going to

[2:14:42] do for transit?

[2:14:44] Are the vehicles winterized and

[2:14:46] equipped? said they are, but again,

[2:14:48] there's no proof.

[2:14:50] Will there be service delays, worse

[2:14:52] shutdowns? We're already seeing some

[2:14:54] delays here. And you're talking about

[2:14:56] new features to roll out, which is

[2:14:58] great. I use tech companies all the

[2:15:01] time, and they say, "Yeah, Q4, we're

[2:15:03] going to roll out new features, but

[2:15:05] they're untested still, and they will

[2:15:07] provide more necessary needs that like

[2:15:10] we'll have other fixes for their fixes.

[2:15:13] It's like updates, but we don't have

[2:15:15] those data. We don't have that data of

[2:15:17] what it looks like. It's great that

[2:15:19] you're creating those fixes right now

[2:15:20] for those technological delays and and

[2:15:23] those new features that you want to roll

[2:15:24] out, but during that pilot, we need

[2:15:26] these this data to give us a more

[2:15:28] informed like decision. Do I think that

[2:15:32] we are going to be moving towards this

[2:15:34] in the long term? Yes. But I think we

[2:15:36] need to do it more um cautiously and

[2:15:39] right from the beginning. That's a red

[2:15:42] flag. You want to have a five-year deal

[2:15:45] and then you're talking about provincial

[2:15:46] funding. If we don't get it, you just

[2:15:50] said it's on the taxpayers.

[2:15:53] Well, I gave it a solution in regards to

[2:15:56] cost per ride that could help offset

[2:15:59] that. Um, but we're banking on this

[2:16:02] provincial thing and then we have to go

[2:16:04] to plan B. Again, that we don't know

[2:16:06] what plan B is. We just know that

[2:16:08] there's plan B. So, when I say

[2:16:10] preparedness, I need that information.

[2:16:13] you know, um do we raise taxes to fund

[2:16:16] it? Uh do we scale back service? There's

[2:16:19] a lot of options there. Third point was

[2:16:22] peak hour wait times and accountability.

[2:16:25] We've talked a lot about that. My my uh

[2:16:27] colleagues have talked about it right

[2:16:28] now. Again, you've got new features

[2:16:31] coming out to try to, you know,

[2:16:33] circumvent that. But we don't even have

[2:16:35] full ridership that's only just been

[2:16:37] opened up for less than a month. And

[2:16:39] then we want to go to full RFP.

[2:16:42] So, I'm not saying I don't support the

[2:16:44] modern responsive transit. I think we

[2:16:46] do. I think, you know, when this

[2:16:49] initially came, I wasn't against the

[2:16:51] system. I was against the business plan.

[2:16:53] And I think that's still where we're at

[2:16:55] because it's going to come down to that

[2:16:57] RFP. That'll be a business plan. We have

[2:17:00] been guinea pigs for the founder. But

[2:17:02] let's do this right. We need to demand

[2:17:05] new features that are untested and have

[2:17:07] the measures, the data to provide us

[2:17:09] that they're working. They're They're

[2:17:11] solving those solutions

[2:17:13] so far. They've been able to curb a lot

[2:17:16] of um barriers that have been thrown at

[2:17:20] them with with maneuvering their tech

[2:17:22] and updating their code, which is great.

[2:17:25] That transparency is something that I

[2:17:28] know about just but the updates that

[2:17:30] we've been get communicated back and

[2:17:31] forth and talking with yourself. That's

[2:17:34] great transparency to know that the tech

[2:17:36] company can implement those at a pretty

[2:17:39] rapid rate and that's great. But all

[2:17:41] these other new features need to be the

[2:17:43] be tested as well. And they might need

[2:17:46] they might even create other new

[2:17:47] features that we don't even see coming

[2:17:49] yet. And I think that's probably going

[2:17:51] to be the lifespan of of uh this type of

[2:17:54] app service or this type of transit

[2:17:56] service that we'll create those because

[2:17:59] things change all the time. even whether

[2:18:01] if we update the the coverage area, the

[2:18:03] zoning, or the scheduling, or even more

[2:18:06] buses.

[2:18:08] So, what I'd like to see is that we have

[2:18:10] that tech transparency data, proof of

[2:18:14] winter readiness, financial contingency,

[2:18:17] whether the PR providence rolls out on

[2:18:19] it. If we wait and we we delay the RFP,

[2:18:23] we'll have a word from the pro province.

[2:18:26] We'll have our winter readiness in

[2:18:28] regards to proof how it relies on our

[2:18:31] and and we'll know about the

[2:18:32] accountability of wait times and how

[2:18:34] we've actually circumvented uh those

[2:18:36] barriers and problems here in this town

[2:18:39] and then we'll be able to actually give

[2:18:40] a more profound choice of this on demand

[2:18:43] service. I don't think it's not going to

[2:18:45] go anywhere. I think it's something it's

[2:18:46] going to be here to stay, but let's do

[2:18:48] it right. Can't support it right now,

[2:18:51] but I I'm very optimistic that we can

[2:18:54] get there in the long term.

[2:18:58] Okay, thank you. Uh, I'm on to councelor

[2:19:00] Dyke.

[2:19:03] >> Well, I must say it's, you know, I watch

[2:19:06] » Well, I must say it's, you know, I watch

[2:19:06] I watch the bus go many times past my

[2:19:08] door every day and and I'm very

[2:19:10] impressed that how we have increased the

[2:19:14] ridership. A dollar a ride is very

[2:19:17] affordable. I I really um I'm impressed

[2:19:20] with the accessibility of people with uh

[2:19:22] that have walkers and shoulders and

[2:19:25] wheelchairs now they can afford to get

[2:19:27] around this town which which means a lot

[2:19:29] and I know there's a lot of bugs and

[2:19:31] there has been a lot of bugs and there's

[2:19:32] still still a few bugs out there and I

[2:19:35] and I still have people on a daily basis

[2:19:37] come in they're scared they're still

[2:19:39] scared of the app they're scared of the

[2:19:41] information going through the app there

[2:19:43] many many things I don't even want to

[2:19:46] discuss this you know, between uh I'll

[2:19:49] send it forward to you. But I have I

[2:19:51] have a few people seniors that they tell

[2:19:53] me they don't have a phone and then they

[2:19:55] find it very still awkward yet. So

[2:19:57] that's only maybe 1% that don't have the

[2:19:59] phones, but there's little things that

[2:20:01] we need to continue to work out. I'd

[2:20:03] like to see this pile pilot project go a

[2:20:06] little longer and uh especially winter

[2:20:08] time to see the snow, the coldness, how

[2:20:11] these batteries are going to operate.

[2:20:12] But you know, I know when it comes to

[2:20:13] it, I have confidence in the in and the

[2:20:16] partners that can make this software

[2:20:19] work and uh they have the experience by

[2:20:22] just by talking to them uh the day they

[2:20:24] give us a ride. They come from a

[2:20:25] background that they know how to do

[2:20:27] these programs that that could help us

[2:20:30] in municipality. Long term u the finance

[2:20:33] business plan is going to be quite

[2:20:35] challenging. Um I hope that we get

[2:20:37] funding from the provincial government

[2:20:39] uh and uh means of help find this

[2:20:42] because at the end of the day I don't

[2:20:44] know if with the plan I see I don't know

[2:20:46] if we can afford the taxpayers to afford

[2:20:50] the high demand of of this program it's

[2:20:52] very successful for users but what's the

[2:20:55] overall cost dollars for dollars so so

[2:20:57] I'd like to see more of the business

[2:20:59] plan and I hope that the problems come

[2:21:01] through but uh but you know mahash

[2:21:03] yourself your team everyone behind

[2:21:05] trying to work very hard to deliver this

[2:21:07] and I give I commend everybody for

[2:21:09] bringing something new to Bradford but I

[2:21:11] feel that we need to spend more time

[2:21:13] with this before we jump into it but

[2:21:15] it's rolling out I think we're maybe 70%

[2:21:18] there but we got to keep on going so

[2:21:22] >> okay thank you for that uh next up I

[2:21:25] » okay thank you for that uh next up I

[2:21:25] have uh councelor or deput

[2:21:29] thank you worship Mr. Rando, thank you.

[2:21:32] Perine, thank you to your team and our

[2:21:35] staff.

[2:21:37] You know, it's encouraging to see that

[2:21:39] the wrership more than doubled in in

[2:21:42] such short time. Um, as you said, 9,00

[2:21:46] trips, less than 1% complaints, but

[2:21:50] still 57 complaints is too many.

[2:21:54] Um,

[2:21:55] I'm one of those people that always look

[2:21:57] at the glass half full rather than

[2:21:59] empty.

[2:22:00] I would be concerned if the complaints

[2:22:05] weren't handled or there was no plan to

[2:22:07] address those complaints. And it looks

[2:22:09] like you're addressing them. So that's

[2:22:12] good.

[2:22:13] I also like the

[2:22:16] plan that we're planning now so we're in

[2:22:18] place come next year that we're ready to

[2:22:22] go. Doesn't mean that the current um

[2:22:26] partner will be there. It could be

[2:22:28] someone else like you said. at least

[2:22:30] we're ready. Um, but I also understand

[2:22:33] the questions from my colleagues about

[2:22:35] winter and and those answers uh need to

[2:22:38] be um given to us and and the public.

[2:22:43] There's lots of um people that that

[2:22:48] really like this. Um I know a comment

[2:22:52] was made about subsiding someone's

[2:22:53] vehicle um business. as long as they're

[2:22:57] taking the ride and and paying what we

[2:22:59] have set up in the system, they're just

[2:23:01] using the service that we provide.

[2:23:04] Um, so I don't have a problem with that.

[2:23:07] That's why we have this. Um, I met many

[2:23:10] PSWs that were paying lots of monies to

[2:23:13] go from their home to Loft or to

[2:23:17] Bradford Valley or somewhere else that

[2:23:19] are saving money and they're not making

[2:23:21] too much money. Trust me, I have many

[2:23:24] family members that are in that uh

[2:23:26] field.

[2:23:28] Um so this is a good thing. The

[2:23:30] questions I have is um in your in your

[2:23:35] report you mentioned six items that that

[2:23:39] or six points that would be used for

[2:23:42] RFP.

[2:23:44] I think three addresses my question but

[2:23:47] I want to hear it in detail. Um if

[2:23:52] they can't make the time guarantees

[2:23:56] um what is the penalty or what is the

[2:24:00] um of our safeguard that we have in

[2:24:03] place that we would be compensated for

[2:24:05] that or or corrected if you can talk to

[2:24:08] that. Also your projections chart show

[2:24:11] us going from 3.3 passengers per capita

[2:24:14] to six uh is it 6.4 or five uh by 2031.

[2:24:20] That's that's uh wrership increases.

[2:24:23] What does that equate into gas tax

[2:24:25] funding that we would get an increase

[2:24:27] annually? Because we used to only get

[2:24:29] based on what we had, we doubled in

[2:24:32] short time. That means the funding that

[2:24:34] we're going to get apart from what

[2:24:36] you're working on on the expansion, it's

[2:24:39] going to go increased. Do we have that

[2:24:41] idea or any number? Thank you.

[2:24:48] I'll start with the community benefits

[2:24:51] um the gas tax. My projection and this

[2:24:55] is my projection based upon how I

[2:24:57] believe

[2:24:59] the calculation happens. I'm not privy

[2:25:01] to the actual formula is that we should

[2:25:04] see a 50% increase in that revenue. Um

[2:25:09] that was done based upon what other

[2:25:11] communities our size

[2:25:15] who have wrership that's close to what

[2:25:17] we're projecting or slightly above and

[2:25:20] try to come up with a an a formula.

[2:25:24] So about a 50% increase. Your second

[2:25:27] question in terms of what happens if

[2:25:31] the proponent does not meet those

[2:25:33] guarantees.

[2:25:35] I don't believe we can put a penalty per

[2:25:38] se in the and Vanessa if I misspe please

[2:25:43] um in the RFP what we could do is your

[2:25:49] payments we could set up a system where

[2:25:51] the payments to the the proponent

[2:25:54] is actually lower. So if you can't meet

[2:25:56] the service level that you committed to

[2:25:58] you get paid at a different rate for a

[2:26:00] lower service level we can put that into

[2:26:02] the RFP and we can set that up. That is

[2:26:04] something that we have not settled on

[2:26:06] the formula for that but it's it's

[2:26:08] definitely the way that we we believe

[2:26:10] that we need to go to.

[2:26:14] » So penalties in a commercial contract

[2:26:15] are actually not enforceable at law. So

[2:26:18] we can't call it a penalty. We do have

[2:26:20] to come up with something that's

[2:26:21] reasonable um that the town would pay

[2:26:24] out if those service levels aren't met.

[2:26:27] So we have to develop that in the back

[2:26:28] end before we even go to market.

[2:26:36] Okay. Okay. Great questions. Uh on to uh

[2:26:39] councelor Farji next.

[2:26:42] Thank you. Um I'm just going to go

[2:26:44] through the comments that I made while I

[2:26:46] was writing the report. I added a few

[2:26:48] while you were having the presentation

[2:26:50] um because I might regurgitate some of

[2:26:53] the stuff that said, but I didn't do too

[2:26:54] too much. Um, so basically this report

[2:26:57] wants us to endorse the staff plan to

[2:27:00] procure a long-term service provider for

[2:27:02] its ondemand transit services, but from

[2:27:05] what I've seen, it's been mentioned at

[2:27:07] the table. Some say it's been amazing. I

[2:27:09] I know it has been amazing for some

[2:27:11] people, but there are still so many bugs

[2:27:13] and questions at this point. Um, and the

[2:27:15] pro the project's still evolving. Like

[2:27:17] tonight alone, you said in two weeks

[2:27:19] you're going to have a better route

[2:27:21] showing up on the app and in September

[2:27:23] you're going to have uh to the go

[2:27:25] station there's going to be a roll out.

[2:27:27] Um the the pre-booking stuff like I mean

[2:27:29] this stuff should be all part of the

[2:27:30] pilot. We should be rolling with this

[2:27:32] already. Uh the issues that we're having

[2:27:35] with people getting online to the app,

[2:27:37] it's been the last month they're finally

[2:27:39] able to get it everybody. So there's

[2:27:41] been uh multiple complaints on social

[2:27:44] media slagging on the system which I

[2:27:47] don't think is fair because it wasn't at

[2:27:48] a full capacity yet and it wasn't be

[2:27:50] able to use by everybody. But at the

[2:27:52] same time these are complaints that have

[2:27:54] happened and the town hasn't had the

[2:27:56] full service yet for people. So I don't

[2:28:00] to Joe's point or sorry councelor

[2:28:01] Gioano's point um I don't consider it a

[2:28:04] full pilot at this point. Um in the

[2:28:07] report it says that there are two ways

[2:28:09] to reduce the weight times as well to

[2:28:12] iterate uh the routting technology to

[2:28:14] make it as efficient as possible and to

[2:28:16] increase the number of available

[2:28:17] vehicles. So why hasn't this already

[2:28:19] been worked out into the pilot project?

[2:28:21] Why hasn't this already been worked out

[2:28:23] into a program that we can see how it

[2:28:25] actually plays out? Staff submitted a

[2:28:28] draft funding application to the

[2:28:30] province. You've already mentioned that

[2:28:31] a few times in your presentation and now

[2:28:34] uh and had conversation conversations

[2:28:36] with the Ministry of Transportation

[2:28:37] staff on the funding possibilities. The

[2:28:40] potential provincial funding envelope is

[2:28:42] for 5 years. So we have the funding

[2:28:45] potentially we can get the funding and

[2:28:48] then it's ex then we are expected to

[2:28:50] achieve financial self- sustaining

[2:28:52] status after year five because that

[2:28:54] funding is gone through in the report

[2:28:57] you have it as self-sufficient to become

[2:29:00] self-sufficient through increases in

[2:29:02] ridership fair revenues gas tax revenues

[2:29:05] assessment growth and small taxation

[2:29:08] increases I don't know how small it's

[2:29:11] going to be when you're shooting for 17

[2:29:13] buses

[2:29:13] Not sure on those numbers. I saw the the

[2:29:16] main numbers that you threw up there,

[2:29:17] but I just

[2:29:19] it there's still a lot of questions to

[2:29:20] that in my mind. Uh and then in tonight,

[2:29:24] you even mentioned there would be

[2:29:26] increases to fairs to those that can

[2:29:29] afford it. So, I don't know if you want

[2:29:31] to clarify on that after uh I finished

[2:29:34] asking my questions because who can

[2:29:35] afford it? Like where where do you draw

[2:29:37] the line? Where do you separate people

[2:29:39] to who can and cannot afford it? How

[2:29:40] would that work? Um, and then the RFP

[2:29:45] that you had written out, it'll have

[2:29:47] pricing uh based on batches of 25,000

[2:29:51] annual rides. So yet apparently we had

[2:29:53] almost 10,000 in July, which has been

[2:29:56] mentioned, and we're presuming to reach

[2:29:59] 420,000 rides in 2031. So why would

[2:30:02] there be such a low expectation for the

[2:30:04] RFP in pricing? That was a question that

[2:30:07] came up while I was reading it. And it's

[2:30:09] obviously that it will not be enough

[2:30:11] amount. This will obviously not be

[2:30:13] enough for the amount of rides the town

[2:30:15] is expecting and will cause more issues

[2:30:17] or have the provider request more

[2:30:19] compensation, provide more transit. So

[2:30:21] basically I was saying that here we are

[2:30:23] going for a lower ride annual ride

[2:30:26] pricing on the RFP which we're not

[2:30:27] expecting that at all. We're expecting

[2:30:29] much more. So it's going to be really

[2:30:31] interesting to see what kind of numbers

[2:30:32] would come up. uh in regards to you had

[2:30:35] mentioned a few times about potentially

[2:30:38] somebody else taking over uh as opposed

[2:30:41] to Argo.

[2:30:43] Who else does this right now? What other

[2:30:45] options are there? How many other

[2:30:47] companies do this? Because as far as I

[2:30:49] know, this was one of the first Argo was

[2:30:51] one of the first for communities for

[2:30:53] municipalities. We were one of the

[2:30:55] guinea pigs, one of the first guinea

[2:30:56] pigs to try it out. So, this RFP, is

[2:30:59] this being written for Argo or are there

[2:31:03] other options out there? I'm curious

[2:31:05] about that as well.

[2:31:15] Uh through you, Mayor Lidduk to

[2:31:17] councelor Farerini.

[2:31:21] Start with your last question.

[2:31:24] when we were putting this together

[2:31:27] um there are there were other vendors

[2:31:32] who claimed that they could replicate

[2:31:34] the service they could replicate what

[2:31:36] Argo is doing um

[2:31:40] but they were unable to bring the

[2:31:43] fullness of the picture to the table we

[2:31:45] believe that they've evolved since then

[2:31:48] um two definitely come to mind that I

[2:31:50] prefer not to name here um they've

[2:31:53] evolved since in and I believe that when

[2:31:57] we go to market we are likely to I'm

[2:32:00] confident that we're likely to get

[2:32:01] multiple proponents.

[2:32:05] What

[2:32:07] I will be guarded and and Vanessa miss

[2:32:09] morum will definitely ensure that I'm

[2:32:11] guarded on this one is not to set an RFP

[2:32:14] where there's really only one proponent

[2:32:17] that can meet it. Um, so it has to be

[2:32:20] performance-based aso as opposed to very

[2:32:24] specific criteria such as electric buses

[2:32:27] or you must have an app that does A, B,

[2:32:29] C, and D. No, it has to be this is what

[2:32:32] we want you to achieve. You have to

[2:32:34] demonstrate how you'll achieve that to

[2:32:36] us. Um, so it has to be a

[2:32:38] performance-based RFP and that's where

[2:32:40] we're going on this particular one.

[2:32:44] Mentioned 25 batches of 25,000.

[2:32:47] The RFP will not be for 25,000 rides but

[2:32:51] will be for multiple batches of 25,000

[2:32:54] depending or a combination thereof

[2:32:57] depending on the ridership total that

[2:33:01] we're targeting. So for example, if in

[2:33:03] year one we're targeting 150,000 rides

[2:33:06] per year, then we're paying you for

[2:33:08] batches of six times 100 six times

[2:33:12] 25,000 rights. So that's what it'll be.

[2:33:15] and that will iterate every year go up

[2:33:17] accordingly and that's the idea again it

[2:33:20] will be to the propon the proponent to

[2:33:22] tell us how they will achieve that

[2:33:24] within the service parameters that we

[2:33:27] will set um so that's where we're going

[2:33:30] on this

[2:33:32] you spoke about the algorithm um and the

[2:33:35] resources

[2:33:36] one of the things that I will commend

[2:33:40] Argo and being the current vendor

[2:33:44] iteration on algor Algorithm iteration

[2:33:46] on ideas to improve the system

[2:33:49] is literally in real time.

[2:33:53] P or trial uh an update today, it works,

[2:33:59] great. It needs tweaking, it it's

[2:34:01] tweaked tonight.

[2:34:04] Trial something today, it doesn't work,

[2:34:06] go back to square one tonight. It's that

[2:34:09] quick with them. Um, and those have over

[2:34:13] the the the four months, and keep in

[2:34:15] mind that we're at four months. We're at

[2:34:16] four months and two days into this,

[2:34:20] that is how we've been able to drive the

[2:34:22] efficiency to be able to open the app

[2:34:24] with the resourcing that we've got. Um,

[2:34:26] and achieve 427. Now, we've been doing

[2:34:29] 400 plus writes consistently

[2:34:32] since the app went open. Um, and I've

[2:34:36] been seeing the the weight times, the

[2:34:39] P95 weight time, the maximum weight time

[2:34:41] during the the peak demand periods

[2:34:44] actually come down slightly. And that

[2:34:46] shows that each individual tweak of the

[2:34:48] algorithm is paying dividends. Does all

[2:34:50] of it work? No. But it's trying the

[2:34:53] ideas to see what will work to drive

[2:34:55] efficiency and that and that's a

[2:34:56] consistent process.

[2:35:00] How do we get down the weight times to

[2:35:02] something s the peak time wait hour wait

[2:35:06] times um

[2:35:09] to something quite low that's resourcing

[2:35:12] and that is something that will require

[2:35:14] additional buses

[2:35:16] um as the demand grows as I said many

[2:35:19] times in the presentation

[2:35:21] we need help for that one and that's

[2:35:23] where we're at with the province um I am

[2:35:25] hopeful as I said staff at the province

[2:35:28] have been working with us which is we've

[2:35:31] applied for many many many

[2:35:34] funding programs. This is the one the

[2:35:36] only one in my memory where staff have

[2:35:39] work are working with us. So I would

[2:35:41] like to think that they see something

[2:35:43] there.

[2:35:45] Are we there? No, we're not. Do I expect

[2:35:47] to be there tomorrow? No, I don't. But

[2:35:50] we're working through it. I hope I

[2:35:52] didn't miss anything.

[2:35:55] But I would like to reiterate what you

[2:35:57] just said, too. It's only been four

[2:36:00] months.

[2:36:02] >> This hasn't been a one-year pilot

[2:36:04] » This hasn't been a one-year pilot

[2:36:04] project which we all agreed to go

[2:36:06] through. So to jump on a five-year now

[2:36:09] to go to procurement to get this

[2:36:11] happening within the next couple of

[2:36:12] months to me just not comfortable doing

[2:36:14] that yet.

[2:36:19] » Okay. I've got uh councelor Dehaney

[2:36:20] next. Myself and then councelor

[2:36:25] Thank you mayor. Thank you um deputy co

[2:36:28] for your presentation. I believe the

[2:36:31] writership has exceeded our expectation

[2:36:35] and of course as you mentioned over and

[2:36:38] over and over the challenges and of

[2:36:40] course with anything at all in life

[2:36:42] we're going to have challenges right but

[2:36:44] when come when we do have challenges we

[2:36:46] find ways to navigate those challenges

[2:36:49] and with the increase of ridership

[2:36:51] definitely we're going to definitely

[2:36:53] need more buses right on the street. We

[2:36:56] started with a million dollar um a

[2:37:00] million dollar um budget right which was

[2:37:02] the same as the older system but now the

[2:37:05] wrership has increased it is more the

[2:37:07] demand is greater now right so of course

[2:37:10] it's it's it's only common it's only

[2:37:13] common sense that we're definitely going

[2:37:15] to need more buses on the street so at

[2:37:18] this point coming with a re um for for

[2:37:22] evaluation

[2:37:24] right and how do we continue this pilot

[2:37:27] program is very timely. I am definitely

[2:37:30] going to support this and I want to

[2:37:33] encourage the residents, the writers to

[2:37:35] continue coming with your with with with

[2:37:38] the with your comments, your ideas, your

[2:37:42] suggestions and the challenges that

[2:37:44] you're facing so that you know we can

[2:37:47] improve on this system right because I'm

[2:37:50] telling you the wrership comparing to

[2:37:53] the older service that we had before it

[2:37:57] is greater. So what we're experiencing

[2:37:59] right now is normal. It is going to be

[2:38:02] normal because the wrership is greater.

[2:38:04] Are we going to sit in it or are we

[2:38:07] going to go to the drawing board and

[2:38:09] we're going to maybe get another bus on

[2:38:11] the street? We definitely going to need

[2:38:13] another bus. I don't know how we're

[2:38:14] going to do this mahish until April

[2:38:18] because of course with the buses that

[2:38:21] we're having right now, we're definitely

[2:38:22] going to have more issues. We're going

[2:38:24] to have more problems if we don't get

[2:38:26] another bus on it. Right. It has

[2:38:29] exceeded our expectation. People are

[2:38:30] loving the service and for the people

[2:38:33] definitely I'm advocating for the people

[2:38:35] because I've been hearing people they

[2:38:37] love the service. However, the glitches

[2:38:40] and again the glitches is because the

[2:38:43] ridership has exceeded the expectation.

[2:38:47] We did not expect that the ridership was

[2:38:49] going to be this great which is very

[2:38:51] good. Right. But I have one ask for you

[2:38:54] um deputy CEO. So I have residents

[2:38:57] reaching out that goes to Henderson Park

[2:39:01] and I believe the bus only stops at the

[2:39:04] Elden.

[2:39:05] I know right now there's no route around

[2:39:08] that area, but if the bus could even do

[2:39:10] one maybe one stop over the light

[2:39:13] because there's no stop light. There's

[2:39:15] no sidewalks I should say. Sorry. So if

[2:39:18] the bus could maybe just go over that

[2:39:20] one light, right? same route, but just

[2:39:23] bring the the children, the youth, the

[2:39:25] vulnerables, right, over that light cuz

[2:39:29] there's no sidewalk, right? During this

[2:39:32] pilot program, the residents will be

[2:39:35] very happy.

[2:39:37] So, if that's something that we can look

[2:39:39] into during this pilot program, we're

[2:39:42] not changing route. We're on the same

[2:39:44] route because I'm sure the bus has to

[2:39:46] maybe go over the light to make a

[2:39:48] U-turn, right, to continue its journey.

[2:39:51] So if we can maybe look at one stop over

[2:39:54] the light just to take them over the

[2:39:55] light and we're talking about the people

[2:39:58] the vulnerables the youth right people

[2:40:00] that depends on this service but I'm

[2:40:02] very much in support of the report and

[2:40:06] of course if the wrership is going to

[2:40:07] increase we definitely know that the

[2:40:09] budget has to be visited it does not

[2:40:11] take a brainer to know that right so the

[2:40:14] wrership has exceeded our expectation

[2:40:17] and now it's time to act because now

[2:40:20] Argo is doing better than what the other

[2:40:23] service was doing. The other service was

[2:40:25] doing great. It did its time. Now we see

[2:40:27] that there's more people that are

[2:40:28] depending on the public transit. Are we

[2:40:32] going backwards or are we going forward?

[2:40:34] Well, I believe we want to go forward

[2:40:36] and I believe the community want to go

[2:40:37] forward. So, if Argo can fix some of

[2:40:40] those glitches and again it's four

[2:40:42] months in, we need to hear the problems

[2:40:44] so that we can fix them, right? so that

[2:40:47] we can improve the service to better

[2:40:49] serve our BWG

[2:40:51] residents. Thank you again. Um, deputy

[2:40:54] CEO,

[2:40:57] » you want to respond to it all or

[2:41:01] » I've heard from councelor Jordano on

[2:41:04] Henderson. I've heard from councelor

[2:41:06] Dhanei. Um, I'll say to both of you,

[2:41:09] leave it with me to discuss it with

[2:41:12] Argo, to discuss it internally with our

[2:41:14] transit folks to see what solution we

[2:41:18] can come up with, shape or form, and

[2:41:20] I'll get back to both of you.

[2:41:23] Okay. Thank you. I I'm going to comment

[2:41:25] now if you don't mind, and I I um

[2:41:27] appreciate everybody's comments, and I I

[2:41:29] really want to say thank you to the

[2:41:30] residents that are actually sending in

[2:41:32] comments and suggestions to us. I think

[2:41:33] that's I think that helps us because you

[2:41:35] know what it is a pilot program and it

[2:41:37] is something that if they weren't ch

[2:41:40] making changes all the time. I mean I'd

[2:41:41] be afraid then technology and AI is

[2:41:44] advancing so fast that this is this is

[2:41:46] helping them and and I think the biggest

[2:41:48] one you made uh deput was the fact that

[2:41:50] they're doing it in real time and we're

[2:41:53] we're we're bettering the service we're

[2:41:54] increasing the service and I and I the

[2:41:56] ridership has increased and that is

[2:41:57] absolutely a supply and demand issue

[2:41:59] right there. I mean, there's no

[2:41:59] offensive bus. We had three buses

[2:42:01] before. We're up to four. I mean, we

[2:42:03] know we're going to need more. It's

[2:42:05] about setting this program up. I think

[2:42:06] this is I think this is an absolute gem

[2:42:08] for us. Uh a dollar a ride. I would love

[2:42:11] to see us uh have hit those targets

[2:42:13] where you have 420,000 rides a year. I

[2:42:16] would love to see those targets hit for

[2:42:18] sure. I think this is uh uh something

[2:42:20] that I'm going to absolutely 100%

[2:42:21] support because I think it is a benefit

[2:42:23] to our residents. It's it's a real

[2:42:24] affordability issue. It's a real quality

[2:42:26] of life issue for them and we will get

[2:42:28] this right with their feedback. We will

[2:42:30] get this right. Come to us directly.

[2:42:33] Don't use Facebook as your platform for

[2:42:35] telling us what we're doing wrong. Come

[2:42:37] to us directly. Please come to every

[2:42:38] counselor directly. Come to their

[2:42:40] accounts. Ask them to get this to the

[2:42:42] people that are that are making the

[2:42:43] changes. We'll do better. We'll

[2:42:45] absolutely do better because they are

[2:42:46] doing better every day. I'll tell you, I

[2:42:49] we we start off some issues, but we have

[2:42:51] cleaned up a lot of those issues and

[2:42:53] this program is moving a lot faster than

[2:42:54] thought. And I am absolutely 100% not

[2:42:57] afraid of those buses being out there in

[2:42:58] the winter. Tesla's been around for a

[2:43:00] long time. Electric batteries. We've had

[2:43:02] electric cars on the road for a long

[2:43:03] time. It's got nothing to do with the

[2:43:04] batteries failing in the winter. It's

[2:43:06] the driving ability of everybody in the

[2:43:08] winter. 50% of the drivers in Ontario

[2:43:10] for grant in the winter can't drive.

[2:43:13] It's ridiculous. But these buses are

[2:43:15] built. They've passed quality asurances

[2:43:18] to get into Canada to be sold in Canada.

[2:43:20] So, I'm I'm absolutely 100% uh in favor

[2:43:24] of them or supportive of them being a

[2:43:26] bus that can drive in the winter. I have

[2:43:28] no issue with that. If it's a blizzard

[2:43:29] or a snowstorm, you're getting off the

[2:43:31] road anyways. Most of most of the things

[2:43:33] are getting off the road anyways. So, I

[2:43:34] mean, we're not This is a system that I

[2:43:37] think will work. Uh the buses are

[2:43:38] manufactured in Turkey. The system

[2:43:41] worked because we had the bus

[2:43:43] manufacturer and the tech people get

[2:43:45] together and drive this program. That's

[2:43:47] where we got this program from. And I'm

[2:43:48] 100% support. I've seen I've seen it

[2:43:50] advance. So, I'm going to support this.

[2:43:53] We need to go out and get a 5-year

[2:43:54] contract. I think we can do that. There

[2:43:56] is there is other alternative suppliers

[2:43:57] out there. You're seeing it uh go

[2:43:59] forward. We're seeing this this pick up

[2:44:01] across the province. You you've seen

[2:44:03] other communities pick up on what we're

[2:44:04] doing. We have uh BMPon and a few other

[2:44:06] communities that are actually advancing

[2:44:08] this. I' I've got calls from many mayors

[2:44:10] throughout Ontario asking me, "How'd you

[2:44:11] do this?" We've got other providers

[2:44:14] coming in saying, "Hey, can you help us

[2:44:15] out?" So, I I'm in support of this. I

[2:44:17] think it's a great program and I and I

[2:44:19] commend everybody for giving us those

[2:44:20] comments because that's what makes us

[2:44:22] better. We know this is a pilot. We know

[2:44:24] there was going to be issues, but I'll

[2:44:26] tell you what, 57 complaints is not a

[2:44:29] huge number, but it's perfect to help us

[2:44:32] make this system better. And and I want

[2:44:33] to hear I want to hear that feedback. I

[2:44:35] want to see that feedback because we can

[2:44:36] do better. They are doing better. And I

[2:44:38] I commend your team, Mesh, all of our

[2:44:41] our staff, the uh Argo staff, wonderful

[2:44:45] working together. They're very

[2:44:46] responsive. So, we can do this and I'm

[2:44:48] I'm looking forward to this service

[2:44:49] becoming a full-time service and I I

[2:44:52] will support the report. So, I uh I'll

[2:44:54] turn it back to I got councelor Jano

[2:44:56] next. Anybody else?

[2:45:00] Yeah, I can't remember now, but I'd like

[2:45:01] to put a motion on to uh extend the

[2:45:04] pilot before we make a decision. I'm not

[2:45:06] sure if that's been tabled yet. Um also,

[2:45:08] a few more points. Um I think I I heard

[2:45:12] from the deput all the more reason to

[2:45:14] wait. Um you're saying that more and

[2:45:16] more uh other competitors or other

[2:45:19] companies are catching up. So why are we

[2:45:21] rushing to go to market with maybe in

[2:45:23] the next 6 months to a year there could

[2:45:25] be all kinds of options and different

[2:45:27] pricing and everything else. You never

[2:45:29] necessarily want to go first to market

[2:45:30] with anyone because you're not getting

[2:45:32] as competitiveness when it looks at the

[2:45:34] landscape of opportunities. So just as

[2:45:36] you were saying every single day things

[2:45:37] are changing and advancing. That's more

[2:45:39] of a reason to wait and and extend our

[2:45:42] pilot. um as a business person and I'm

[2:45:44] not uh speaking as um you know uh you

[2:45:48] know someone out of emotion it's it's

[2:45:49] based on strategic right so when you

[2:45:51] look at your business plan you you don't

[2:45:52] turn around and say well I'm going to

[2:45:54] pigeon hole myself into a potential

[2:45:55] option knowing that in six months to a

[2:45:57] year there could be a way you know

[2:45:59] larger landscape of opportunity um so

[2:46:03] the other thing too is we keep saying we

[2:46:05] need other buses and everything else

[2:46:06] yeah like I think this service is

[2:46:08] fantastic what's the cost what's the

[2:46:10] cost of those increased buses who's

[2:46:11] paying for those costs

[2:46:13] Right. To councelor Harper's point, why

[2:46:15] a dollar? Just because we want to make

[2:46:17] it affordable for everybody. Okay. Well,

[2:46:19] and then you mentioned about having, you

[2:46:21] know, those who could affordable will

[2:46:22] pay more. Well, isn't that a human

[2:46:23] rights tribunal nightmare right there

[2:46:26] all of a sudden saying, "Well, you're

[2:46:27] going to pay more because you can afford

[2:46:28] it, but no, you you don't deserve to pay

[2:46:30] as much as somebody else." Like, I I

[2:46:31] don't understand how that even comes

[2:46:32] into play. So, like again, these are all

[2:46:34] things that I'm hearing for the first

[2:46:36] time now, and I want more clarification

[2:46:38] on some of this information. Um, and I

[2:46:40] believe there was also some complaints

[2:46:41] about accessibility issues that these

[2:46:43] these buses did meet certain criteria,

[2:46:45] but we've been modifying the buses in

[2:46:47] order to accommodate that. Is that real

[2:46:49] or is that true? Uh, maybe you can just

[2:46:51] address that. And then lastly, uh, the

[2:46:53] mayor brought this up and it was

[2:46:54] something I didn't want to bring up

[2:46:55] today, but I'm going to say it now. Um,

[2:46:58] I I would be much more comfortable if

[2:47:00] this these were Canadian manufacturer

[2:47:01] vehicles and not from Turkey or

[2:47:04] somewhere else overseas. We are in a

[2:47:06] massive manufacturing war globally. We

[2:47:08] have the companies and the ability

[2:47:10] locally to build this and we're going

[2:47:13] across the world to get these things. I

[2:47:15] I you know, at the end of the day,

[2:47:17] they're just down the street. They're

[2:47:18] just up the street. We can we can get

[2:47:19] access to Canadian manufacturing.

[2:47:23] >> Okay. Thank you. I've got Council Kite

[2:47:26] » Okay. Thank you. I've got Council Kite

[2:47:26] next. And then actually, I don't have

[2:47:28] recommendation on the floor yet, do I?

[2:47:30] I've been debating that. So, okay. So,

[2:47:34] you you you said you wanted to put a

[2:47:36] recommendation on the floor.

[2:47:38] So madam

[2:47:43] » okay speak

[2:47:46] so I guess my question is

[2:47:50] uh we're all kind of yeah most some of

[2:47:53] us are worried about winter operation

[2:47:55] I'm not but uh that is the biggest

[2:47:59] concern I'm hearing here and also that

[2:48:01] the pilot hasn't really fully

[2:48:05] been

[2:48:07] gone through the stages yet. So

[2:48:10] I see in the on page 12 of your report

[2:48:14] or presentation the request for

[2:48:16] proposals

[2:48:18] to award the contract in November of

[2:48:22] 2025

[2:48:26] and but getting the getting the RFP done

[2:48:29] in October. So what I'm trying to say is

[2:48:33] we do need the pricing before budget

[2:48:35] time.

[2:48:37] So could we do all that but then can we

[2:48:40] find out if Argo can give us a two

[2:48:43] threemonth extension

[2:48:45] so that we don't award the contract

[2:48:47] until

[2:48:49] February

[2:48:51] and then the contract begins in say May

[2:48:57] and then we can get the process going

[2:49:00] for the RFP and get the pricing.

[2:49:02] But I don't know you can I don't think

[2:49:04] you can answer the question whether Argo

[2:49:06] was willing to give us a two or three

[2:49:08] month extension on the U

[2:49:12] pilot program

[2:49:17] » uh through you mayor Loop to councel

[2:49:19] Vike um the extension.

[2:49:22] Would you like to ask the question?

[2:49:26] >> Sorry

[2:49:28] » Sorry

[2:49:28] for I didn't hear you. Did you say that

[2:49:30] they will give us an extension?

[2:49:32] I didn't get there yet.

[2:49:35] Um, in terms of the extension, it's

[2:49:36] something I'm I'm sure that we can

[2:49:38] raise, not I'm sure, I know we can raise

[2:49:40] with them and have that conversation.

[2:49:43] What I will suggest is that any

[2:49:44] extension will need to give us enough

[2:49:48] time from the award to the start, I

[2:49:51] would recommend six months. Um, simply

[2:49:54] in the event that it's a different

[2:49:55] vendor who would need to replicate the

[2:49:58] systems that they've put in place. Um,

[2:50:00] so you'll need that six months um, in

[2:50:03] terms of that. So whatever extension

[2:50:04] we're looking at, work backwards plus my

[2:50:06] RFP time, you're looking at about nine,

[2:50:09] eight to nine months, right?

[2:50:11] >> So my follow-up question is, we don't

[2:50:13] » So my follow-up question is, we don't

[2:50:13] approve this tonight and ask for it to

[2:50:16] be deferred to or I guess our next

[2:50:18] meeting is in September. How does that

[2:50:21] affect

[2:50:23] the timing? Will we still be able

[2:50:26] September to make a decision?

[2:50:33] Um, Argo is here. We can put them put

[2:50:38] them on the spot. Um,

[2:50:42] No, it's if we're if we're looking at an

[2:50:44] extension if we're looking at an

[2:50:46] extension, is that to

[2:50:49] prove that the buses can work in the

[2:50:52] winter? Is that what we're looking for?

[2:50:55] >> No. No. Uh, some are. I'm not. But the

[2:50:59] » No. No. Uh, some are. I'm not. But the

[2:50:59] other request for an extension was to

[2:51:01] more fully test the pilot to get more

[2:51:05] confidence in in what's happening.

[2:51:08] But my question right now is if we we

[2:51:11] can't get those answers tonight, then

[2:51:14] can we delay the decision to September

[2:51:17] and still move forward properly?

[2:51:24] through you, Mayor Luk, to move forward

[2:51:27] and give any potential

[2:51:33] other vendor a fair shot at mobilizing.

[2:51:37] We'll need to move the end of pilot

[2:51:40] completion date. Otherwise, what we will

[2:51:42] end up stacking is in favor of Argo,

[2:51:44] I'll be honest. Um, and from a

[2:51:48] procurement perspective, that's not

[2:51:50] advisable.

[2:51:51] So, the first thing would be ask Argo,

[2:51:54] can we get an extension? How many months

[2:51:56] we're looking for? Um, based upon what

[2:51:58] I've heard around the table, you're

[2:51:59] probably looking, as you're right, at

[2:52:01] least a three-month extension, probably

[2:52:03] a little longer, and what would be the

[2:52:05] terms of that. Um, so that's the first

[2:52:07] part. Um, and then work it backwards and

[2:52:10] see what is it we can provide to that.

[2:52:13] So, that's something I can definitely

[2:52:14] raise. I will not suggest that based

[2:52:18] upon the full sum of the conversation

[2:52:20] that we're back in September. It's

[2:52:22] probably back later than that, right?

[2:52:25] So then we can Have you got time? So my

[2:52:28] concern is if you if we drive this

[2:52:30] extension and we don't change the buses,

[2:52:32] you're just going to build the

[2:52:33] complaints. So if we're driving

[2:52:36] extension, it means we're driving more

[2:52:37] cost. They've got to bring more buses

[2:52:39] in. I mean, you can't you can't work

[2:52:41] with the four buses. The ridership is

[2:52:43] going up. That's what's driving your

[2:52:44] complaints, that peak demand. We can't

[2:52:47] manage the system on four buses. The

[2:52:49] idea is we need to get our bus services

[2:52:50] up. So, I'm I'm concerned if we drive an

[2:52:53] extension now. So, that's a question.

[2:52:55] So, can we defer this? Is this something

[2:52:58] that we can defer and move to answer

[2:53:01] those questions through that extension?

[2:53:05] Um, I would put one more risk out there,

[2:53:08] Mr. Mayor. What happens if Argo says no?

[2:53:13] then we are in a situation where it's

[2:53:15] very tight. We'll h handicap the next

[2:53:19] proponent

[2:53:20] um in terms of their mobilization and

[2:53:23] that's the challenge. Um

[2:53:28] in terms of we've all agreed that on

[2:53:32] demand transit shows that it has the

[2:53:34] benefit of what we thought it would.

[2:53:38] Couple of things. One is

[2:53:42] there's nothing that's guaranteeing that

[2:53:43] it will be hard. There's nothing that's

[2:53:44] guaranteeing that it will be these

[2:53:46] electric buses. It could be something

[2:53:49] different, right? And that's where we

[2:53:51] need the conversation needs to be. The

[2:53:55] way that the manager of procurement and

[2:53:57] I have been talking about the RFP, it

[2:54:00] has to be performance-based.

[2:54:03] We're not specking you need x number of

[2:54:05] buses and no it's for them to figure

[2:54:09] that out. Whoever can be efficient on

[2:54:12] if we've got a concern that the buses

[2:54:14] must be able to to work in x centimeters

[2:54:17] of snow. That's a performance criteria.

[2:54:19] We put that into the RFP.

[2:54:22] That's what that's the that's the

[2:54:23] solution I would recommend. Um

[2:54:28] we want council Jordano mentioned we

[2:54:31] wanted uh the preferences for buses

[2:54:33] manufactured here that can be in the or

[2:54:35] finished here that can be in the RFP and

[2:54:40] these buses are finished here. So

[2:54:42] they've got manufactured content in

[2:54:43] Canada. um all all all those issues can

[2:54:47] be put as performance in the RFP and

[2:54:49] that's where we're going with um all of

[2:54:52] the concerns raised all of the the

[2:54:54] challenges um that you've that you have

[2:54:57] in your mind can be reflected in a

[2:55:00] performance-based RFP today.

[2:55:04] >> Okay, I've got councelor Dehaney next.

[2:55:12] You're on mute again. And then I want to

[2:55:13] put a recommendation on the floor. I got

[2:55:14] to put the recommendation from the

[2:55:16] report on the floor so we can

[2:55:20] >> Sorry.

[2:55:21] » Sorry.

[2:55:21] >> We're muted.

[2:55:22] » We're muted.

[2:55:22] >> Okay. So, um, if we're going to extend

[2:55:25] » Okay. So, um, if we're going to extend

[2:55:26] the pilot program and if Argo say yes or

[2:55:30] no, um, to what mayor mentioned, we

[2:55:33] definitely going to need another bus on

[2:55:36] the on the road for sure. But again, it

[2:55:38] all depends on Argo. So, Mahes, is Argo

[2:55:41] there in the house tonight?

[2:55:44] I believe you said that they're here.

[2:55:46] Can they come forward and maybe answer

[2:55:48] to some of the questions like will they

[2:55:50] be okay to the pilot program or would

[2:55:53] they need more time to think about it?

[2:55:56] And if they do agree, say tonight, and

[2:55:58] said yes, we can consider the pilot

[2:56:01] program being extended, will they be

[2:56:03] open to, and again,

[2:56:05] >> point of order? I don't think that's

[2:56:06] » point of order? I don't think that's

[2:56:06] appropriate. I don't think we should be

[2:56:08] asking to do business negotiations at a

[2:56:10] council table during a council meeting.

[2:56:13] >> Excuse me.

[2:56:13] » Excuse me.

[2:56:13] >> It's it's un excuse. It's a point it's a

[2:56:15] » It's it's un excuse. It's a point it's a

[2:56:15] point of order. For

[2:56:16] >> a second, please interrupt me. Thank

[2:56:18] » a second, please interrupt me. Thank

[2:56:18] you.

[2:56:19] >> Councelor Dehaney and councelor

[2:56:20] » Councelor Dehaney and councelor

[2:56:20] Gerardano. I'm the chair. I will I will

[2:56:22] take over this. Yes, you can't you can't

[2:56:25] negotiate something at the table right

[2:56:27] now.

[2:56:27] >> One second. I am not one second, mayor.

[2:56:29] » One second. I am not one second, mayor.

[2:56:29] Please and thank you. I'm asking a

[2:56:32] question and I would appreciate if

[2:56:34] persons would listen keenly before

[2:56:37] allowing their

[2:56:39] >> Please ask the question.

[2:56:40] » Please ask the question.

[2:56:40] >> I did ask my question, mayor. Can you

[2:56:42] » I did ask my question, mayor. Can you

[2:56:42] allow me to speak? I was elected just

[2:56:45] like everyone else to represent the

[2:56:47] people of Bradford. Whether you like me

[2:56:50] or not, the people do. That's why I'm

[2:56:52] here. And I have the fair choice and

[2:56:55] right like everyone else to speak as

[2:56:58] lengthy as I choose just as everyone

[2:57:00] else. So let me go back to my question

[2:57:03] before I was interrupted. Thank you. So

[2:57:06] deputy CEO

[2:57:08] you said that Argo was in the house.

[2:57:12] If Argo is okay to come forward, if they

[2:57:16] maybe need more time to answer the

[2:57:19] questions that we're asking, will they

[2:57:21] be open to let us know? Okay. Will they

[2:57:25] be able to provide an extra bus or will

[2:57:28] they be open to the exp extension of the

[2:57:32] pilot program, please? That's my

[2:57:34] question before I was rudely

[2:57:36] interrupted. Thank you. I

[2:57:37] >> have uh our manager procurement come up

[2:57:39] » have uh our manager procurement come up

[2:57:39] and speak to this.

[2:57:49] Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you for your

[2:57:51] question, councelor Dhaney. Um, at this

[2:57:53] time, we are unable to ask Argo to come

[2:57:55] forward to have any discussion with

[2:57:57] respect to the contract. This is

[2:57:59] confidential discussions that we would

[2:58:00] be having offline and Mahesh and I will

[2:58:04] take that on if that is council's desire

[2:58:06] after this meeting.

[2:58:09] Thank you so much, Vanessa, for

[2:58:10] clarifying my question. Thank you. Thank

[2:58:12] you, mayor.

[2:58:14] >> Yes. Thank you. All right. I've got to

[2:58:16] » Yes. Thank you. All right. I've got to

[2:58:16] councelor Scott for the last comment

[2:58:17] before we move on. Thanks for your

[2:58:19] worship. I just want to go back.

[2:58:22] I hear everyone's comments and the

[2:58:25] report itself doesn't outline the RFP

[2:58:28] timeline the way the slideshow

[2:58:30] presentation does, but the initial

[2:58:33] report that we endorsed when we made the

[2:58:36] switch to on demand transit said there

[2:58:40] would be a request for proposals in Q3

[2:58:42] 2025 to procure a multi-year service

[2:58:44] provider to enable a shift to permanent

[2:58:46] ondemand transit from April 1st, 2026.

[2:58:50] So,

[2:58:51] we're not being asked to do anything

[2:58:53] tonight that we didn't contemplate doing

[2:58:56] when we launched this pilot. The only

[2:58:58] concern is whether we've had enough time

[2:58:59] of the pilot rolling out to make an

[2:59:02] informed decision,

[2:59:05] which is a fair comment, but we're not

[2:59:07] being asked to make a decision to award

[2:59:10] the contract

[2:59:12] until the end of this year. So, we have

[2:59:14] another three or four months until we're

[2:59:17] being asked to make a decision. All

[2:59:18] we're being asked to do tonight is

[2:59:20] launch the RFP process. So hopefully

[2:59:23] that gives some people some assurance.

[2:59:26] We we don't have a gun to our head, so

[2:59:28] to speak, tonight. We're just being

[2:59:29] asked to take the next stage of a

[2:59:31] process that we control and would still

[2:59:33] make a final decision on in keeping with

[2:59:36] the timeline that was outlined when we

[2:59:38] first launched the pilot.

[2:59:41] >> We have Frank move that we approve the

[2:59:45] » We have Frank move that we approve the

[2:59:45] recommendation.

[2:59:48] It hasn't been seconded. So,

[2:59:51] >> uh,

[2:59:54] » uh,

[2:59:54] his motion was to What was your motion

[2:59:57] again?

[2:59:59] >> So, I need I need the clerk to rule

[3:00:00] » So, I need I need the clerk to rule

[3:00:00] here. Please rule first.

[3:00:05] » We have not put the motion um from the

[3:00:08] agenda, the recommendation of the report

[3:00:09] onto the floor yet. So, we'll do that

[3:00:11] first and then amendments can come from

[3:00:13] there.

[3:00:16] Also,

[3:00:17] >> okay,

[3:00:17] » okay,

[3:00:17] >> hold on. Point of order,

[3:00:19] » hold on. Point of order,

[3:00:19] >> mayor, for clarification. You asked

[3:00:21] » mayor, for clarification. You asked

[3:00:21] councelor Jordano to let councelor

[3:00:24] speak and then you would go back to his

[3:00:25] recommendation. You have not done that.

[3:00:28] I I wanted to clar clarify with the

[3:00:30] clerk. The clerk has clarified how it

[3:00:32] works. We put the motion on the floor.

[3:00:34] If now I'll go back to councelor Jordano

[3:00:35] if he wants to amend it. It's moved and

[3:00:37] seconded. I'm going back to him for an

[3:00:39] amendment if you'd like. So, councelor

[3:00:41] Jordano, would you like to amend it?

[3:00:43] I'd like to amend it to ask staff to ask

[3:00:46] for a um six-month extension on the

[3:00:51] pilot program.

[3:00:53] Therefore, giving us some time I I

[3:00:55] believe it would be would that be

[3:00:57] December instead of September for us to

[3:00:59] start the RFQ process. But I want to do

[3:01:02] it in one year from the day that we

[3:01:05] actually open it up to the actual town.

[3:01:07] So, what date was that? Can you remind

[3:01:09] me?

[3:01:14] through you to um council Jano opening

[3:01:17] the app.

[3:01:18] >> I believe it was July

[3:01:22] » I believe it was July

[3:01:22] 7th or

[3:01:24] so, you know, I would like to be going

[3:01:26] to RFQ probably sometime in the

[3:01:28] springtime, make a decision one year

[3:01:31] after the pilot has actually been

[3:01:32] available to the community. So you guys

[3:01:35] are going to have to work the math back

[3:01:36] on when what what what that extension

[3:01:38] looks like. But that's something that

[3:01:39] I'd like to defer this until we get

[3:01:41] answers back about the extension of

[3:01:43] this. Um well, you can ask for it and

[3:01:47] then all of a sudden it doesn't come

[3:01:48] back. We have to unmothball our uh

[3:01:50] >> are you putting an amendment or

[3:01:53] » are you putting an amendment or

[3:01:53] >> Okay, I'll put the amendment. I'll put

[3:01:54] » Okay, I'll put the amendment. I'll put

[3:01:54] the amendment. So we're gonna we're

[3:01:55] gonna ask for extension. So then

[3:01:56] therefore the procurement takes place

[3:01:58] one year from the date that it was

[3:01:59] available to the public.

[3:02:03] Okay. Seconded. So it's amendment that

[3:02:07] it is procurement is one year from July

[3:02:11] 7th. That was the date, right?

[3:02:15] >> Hey,

[3:02:17] » Hey,

[3:02:17] >> I know it's a totally different

[3:02:18] » I know it's a totally different

[3:02:18] resolution, but

[3:02:20] >> let's just get it on the floor and get

[3:02:21] » let's just get it on the floor and get

[3:02:21] it over with and we can move on to the

[3:02:22] resol recommendation. So we have a mover

[3:02:24] and a seconder. Further comments on

[3:02:26] that?

[3:02:27] Okay, seeing none, do you want to vote

[3:02:29] on that amendment? All in for the All in

[3:02:32] support of the amendment.

[3:02:34] One, two, three, four. Okay. Opposed.

[3:02:39] >> Mayor, I don't know what I am agreeing

[3:02:42] » Mayor, I don't know what I am agreeing

[3:02:42] to.

[3:02:43] >> He put an amendment. He put a a a new

[3:02:46] » He put an amendment. He put a a a new

[3:02:46] motion on the floor to make an extension

[3:02:48] and the to do the uh RFQ or the RFP 12

[3:02:53] months later. So, if you're in support

[3:02:55] of this recommendation,

[3:02:58] the one on the table, he's amending it.

[3:03:00] the one on the on the report he's

[3:03:01] amended.

[3:03:04] >> It's kind of difficult to since what

[3:03:06] » It's kind of difficult to since what

[3:03:06] what Vanessa mentioned just now that we

[3:03:09] cannot do anything or say anything. Argo

[3:03:11] cannot speak on anything. So I find it

[3:03:15] very weird for me to I don't even know

[3:03:16] what to agree on.

[3:03:18] >> Okay. So

[3:03:18] » Okay. So

[3:03:18] >> I'm out of it.

[3:03:19] » I'm out of it.

[3:03:20] >> You're abstaining from the vote. Thank

[3:03:21] » You're abstaining from the vote. Thank

[3:03:21] you.

[3:03:21] >> I don't know what this is.

[3:03:23] » I don't know what this is.

[3:03:23] >> Thank you. So that's defeated.

[3:03:28] So the motion on the floor is and I'll

[3:03:29] read it and it was moved by reccomation

[3:03:32] of staff report DCAO 2025-8 titled

[3:03:35] update on Bradford Glenbury demand

[3:03:36] transit be received for information and

[3:03:38] the council endorse the staff plan to

[3:03:40] procure a long-term service provider for

[3:03:42] its ondemand transit service moved by

[3:03:45] and it was moved by council kite

[3:03:47] seconded by deputy mayor that's on the

[3:03:49] floor now all right

[3:03:51] >> mayor I got a point of order

[3:03:52] » mayor I got a point of order

[3:03:52] >> point of order

[3:03:53] » point of order

[3:03:53] >> I'd like to recommend the deferral which

[3:03:55] » I'd like to recommend the deferral which

[3:03:55] superseds es the recommendation.

[3:03:59] Okay. You have a deferral. Does it

[3:04:01] supersede the recommendation? He's

[3:04:03] asking for a deferral. Okay.

[3:04:06] >> No, seriously. A deferral pushes it off

[3:04:10] » No, seriously. A deferral pushes it off

[3:04:10] indefinitely. A referral sends it back

[3:04:11] to staff seeking more information to

[3:04:13] come back at a specific time.

[3:04:23] » Okay. So, what are we putting on the

[3:04:24] floor? A deferral or referral?

[3:04:27] >> Referral doesn't have the same

[3:04:28] » Referral doesn't have the same

[3:04:28] superseding as the deferral.

[3:04:29] >> No, it's debatable.

[3:04:30] » No, it's debatable.

[3:04:30] >> It's debatable.

[3:04:32] » It's debatable.

[3:04:32] That's okay. You can put referral on.

[3:04:34] Have you got

[3:04:34] >> I'm okay with referral, too. But like as

[3:04:38] » I'm okay with referral, too. But like as

[3:04:38] long as we get the answers quickly

[3:04:39] because I liked what councelor Vai was

[3:04:41] talking about getting the decisions. If

[3:04:43] we know that, then it basically it only

[3:04:46] will jump the timelines only shortly

[3:04:48] because I know the connections that the

[3:04:50] deputy CEO has with Argo

[3:04:52] >> will get us the answers we need. And I'm

[3:04:54] » will get us the answers we need. And I'm

[3:04:54] okay with that. And if we have that, you

[3:04:57] know what? It's not like in saying I

[3:04:59] just really would want the winter stuff,

[3:05:01] but like we know we're probably going to

[3:05:03] be going towards this, but we just want

[3:05:04] to make sure that we do it right.

[3:05:06] Referral would make that happen.

[3:05:07] >> We have a referral. Do we have a

[3:05:08] » We have a referral. Do we have a

[3:05:08] seconder for that? Right there. Okay.

[3:05:11] Now, we can debate that. We're good.

[3:05:15] Councelor Scott,

[3:05:16] >> I will support a referral if we specify

[3:05:18] » I will support a referral if we specify

[3:05:18] in the motion that it comes back

[3:05:21] in September with the questions asked

[3:05:24] tonight

[3:05:28] contemplate or responded to in that

[3:05:29] report. So, a referral motion, you can

[3:05:31] specify the time you want it to come

[3:05:33] back and the conditions under which you

[3:05:34] want it to come back and hopefully the

[3:05:36] mover and secondary agree with that

[3:05:38] timing and that condition.

[3:05:44] Mayor, I agree to those conditions.

[3:05:46] Obviously, September is a good timeline.

[3:05:47] I think u you know, Council K said that

[3:05:50] well. September will give us those

[3:05:51] answers and I think we'll have to make a

[3:05:53] hard choice, but I believe it may be

[3:05:55] give the opportunity to get that proof

[3:05:57] that we were looking for as well. He

[3:05:58] said he had it, so maybe I'll give time

[3:06:00] to give us that as well and satisfy the

[3:06:02] need of that information.

[3:06:04] >> Okay, the referral has come back in

[3:06:05] » Okay, the referral has come back in

[3:06:05] September with some answers to those

[3:06:07] questions. Deputy CEO, you go ahead

[3:06:09] comment. A quick clarity

[3:06:13] question is around winter operation.

[3:06:22] » I'm going to go to the deputy uh mayor

[3:06:24] and then to councelor Trano and that's

[3:06:26] it. Vote. This doesn't seem like it's

[3:06:29] clear enough. I hear questions around

[3:06:32] winter maintenance. Then I hear

[3:06:34] everything we've been discussing for

[3:06:37] last hour and a half. what is that

[3:06:40] everything that that's that's not clear

[3:06:42] and if we don't provide clear direction

[3:06:45] they can't give us the accurate

[3:06:46] information. So let's be clear what

[3:06:49] we're asking then if they can do it by

[3:06:52] next September they can let us know

[3:06:54] staff can let us know otherwise we're

[3:06:56] just going in circles.

[3:07:00] Okay Jordano

[3:07:04] yeah that's what I was going to say. So

[3:07:05] I it's not winter is only one of the ma

[3:07:07] major things that we discussed today. So

[3:07:10] um to your point deputy mayor I think

[3:07:12] some of the other takeaways was number

[3:07:13] one how can you maximize your

[3:07:15] procurement with vendors that are just

[3:07:18] um updating their systems now and

[3:07:20] everything else. So obviously we wanted

[3:07:22] to extend the timeline as much as

[3:07:24] possible to give those other

[3:07:25] opportunities to come on board. Number

[3:07:27] two there was the ability of um the

[3:07:31] guarantee that we were saying. So, how

[3:07:32] does that

[3:07:34] Yeah, funding is another one. And then

[3:07:37] apparently we we have to put another bus

[3:07:39] on the road or multiple buses. I want to

[3:07:42] know what the cost is. And then there's

[3:07:44] another discussion about a dollar a ride

[3:07:46] versus $3 a ride versus whatever it is.

[3:07:48] Well, what does that look like? Well, we

[3:07:50] don't have any pricing modeling on what

[3:07:51] does this look like on for us to roll

[3:07:53] this this transit system out. Yeah,

[3:07:55] there's talks about people want to give

[3:07:56] away the transit for free. Well, what

[3:07:57] does that cost taxpayers? I don't have

[3:07:59] any of that information. And you guys

[3:08:00] want to go into procurement and secure

[3:08:02] something for the next 5 years based on

[3:08:04] what? Like I I need to see financial

[3:08:06] modeling too. Like we can't just make

[3:08:08] these decisions and say yeah let's go to

[3:08:10] go to market. Don't forget we still have

[3:08:12] our buses on mothballs right now. So you

[3:08:14] know we always have an option B or C in

[3:08:16] the works and maybe we should have an

[3:08:18] option B or C that comes to the table.

[3:08:20] We don't have an if and what sit uh

[3:08:21] solution right now and I get it but you

[3:08:24] know maybe we should have a bit of a

[3:08:25] wargaming situation where it comes to

[3:08:26] like okay this is one option for on

[3:08:28] demand or if we don't do a full on

[3:08:29] demand system we have a a subsidized on

[3:08:31] demand system or we have a we just have

[3:08:33] one and done that's it. So those are

[3:08:35] some of the things that were being

[3:08:36] discussed today. Um, there's also a few

[3:08:38] other things that I don't think we got

[3:08:39] full answers on, like for example, are

[3:08:41] these buses fully accessible, right? Or

[3:08:44] have they meet all the accessibility

[3:08:45] criteria that's required for a transit

[3:08:47] system like they have in Toronto and

[3:08:48] some of those other ones? Um, I've heard

[3:08:51] some yes or we've made modifications in

[3:08:53] the short term. Like I don't I didn't

[3:08:54] get answers on that yet. So, that's

[3:08:55] another answer that I would like to

[3:08:56] have. And then the last one, um, hold

[3:09:00] on. I'm just trying to scroll through

[3:09:01] all these notes here. Oh yeah, the

[3:09:02] Canadian manufacturing ability. Right.

[3:09:03] When you say finished, I could slap a

[3:09:05] sticker on, screw in a little uh digital

[3:09:07] box and say it's assembled in Canada. I

[3:09:09] want to know how much percentage of the

[3:09:11] vehicle is manufactured in Canada in the

[3:09:13] procurement process as well for

[3:09:15] consideration.

[3:09:20] Okay. Anybody else want anything else

[3:09:22] about this in referral? Did we miss

[3:09:24] anything?

[3:09:27] Okay. So, it's a a referral.

[3:09:32] Yeah.

[3:09:34] Mr. Mayor, based upon those points

[3:09:37] raised, if all of those are to be

[3:09:39] addressed,

[3:09:40] um that we will not be able to make

[3:09:43] September. I'll tell you that.

[3:09:45] >> No, I was pretty sure you weren't.

[3:09:47] » No, I was pretty sure you weren't.

[3:09:47] That's why I didn't I didn't think I had

[3:09:48] to explain it. Okay, the referral's on

[3:09:50] the table. So, all in favor of the

[3:09:53] referral back to staff, all in favor of

[3:09:57] the referral back to staff.

[3:09:59] >> It Well, it's September. We we have

[3:10:01] » It Well, it's September. We we have

[3:10:01] September with all those September with

[3:10:03] all those requests. That was what they

[3:10:05] wanted. We're not waiting September with

[3:10:06] all those issues. In favor of the

[3:10:08] referral,

[3:10:11] >> I vote yes or no.

[3:10:17] » Okay. Two in favor. Those opposed

[3:10:21] carried. Okay. Back to the

[3:10:24] recommendation on the floor. We have a

[3:10:26] mover to second. All in favor of the

[3:10:29] recommendation.

[3:10:31] One, two, three. Where are we? Four,

[3:10:34] five.

[3:10:36] Opposed.

[3:10:38] 1 2 3 4 carried. Thank you.

[3:10:45] Okay, council. Uh, it's 10 after 10.

[3:10:48] We're not going to get through this

[3:10:50] agenda tonight, I don't think. If you

[3:10:53] guys want to go past midnight,

[3:10:55] >> can you can you jump to the bonhead one

[3:10:57] » can you can you jump to the bonhead one

[3:10:57] just because of the people the residents

[3:10:59] who are here for that one?

[3:11:01] >> That's at number four.

[3:11:03] » That's at number four.

[3:11:03] >> We can get there in a second if you

[3:11:04] » We can get there in a second if you

[3:11:04] want. I don't think this servicing

[3:11:06] agreement is a big issue.

[3:11:09] I was just going to say if you wanted a

[3:11:10] break, bathroom break,

[3:11:14] » so I'll go. We didn't readjust the

[3:11:15] schedule. So,

[3:11:18] >> okay. 93. Let's do 93. Request for

[3:11:20] » okay. 93. Let's do 93. Request for

[3:11:20] pre-ervice agreement. I've got a

[3:11:22] recommendation that report NG2025-10

[3:11:24] titled request for pre-ervice agreement

[3:11:26] low parcel external sanitary sanitary be

[3:11:29] received foration and the necessary by

[3:11:31] representative council to authorize the

[3:11:32] mayor and clerk to enter into a

[3:11:33] pres-erviceing agreement mover and a

[3:11:35] second or puts on the floor please moved

[3:11:37] by deputy mayor seconded by councelor

[3:11:38] Perageni questions and concerns with

[3:11:40] this one it's a good one it's in our uh

[3:11:43] southern quadrant it's hoping that we

[3:11:46] get some servicing done then get the

[3:11:47] rest of that uh uh servicing up through

[3:11:49] our employment lands

[3:11:51] Okay, no questions or concerns. All in

[3:11:53] favor carried. Thank you. Okay. 9.4.

[3:11:57] That's the uh Bonnet Heritage.

[3:12:00] We will do that and then we'll take a

[3:12:02] break after if that's okay with

[3:12:03] everyone. Okay. Bonnet Heritage

[3:12:05] Conservation District recommendation PLN

[3:12:07] 2025-37. I have a recommendation that

[3:12:09] PLN 202537

[3:12:12] be received and that accordance with

[3:12:13] section 40 41 of the Ontario Heritage

[3:12:16] Act, council designate by bylaw the area

[3:12:19] shown in attachment 71 appended to

[3:12:22] report PLN 2025-37

[3:12:25] as the Bonhead heritage conservation

[3:12:27] district and the council adopt the uh by

[3:12:30] bylaw the Bonhead heritage conservation

[3:12:32] district plan as as the district plan

[3:12:34] for Bonhead heritage conservation

[3:12:36] district in accordance with section 411

[3:12:38] of the Ontario Heritage Act attached as

[3:12:41] attachment 72 appended to report PLN

[3:12:44] 2025-37

[3:12:46] and the council approve a heritage

[3:12:48] permit process uh for parts four and

[3:12:50] five designated uh properties in

[3:12:53] Bradford Westbury with an effective date

[3:12:56] of January 1st 2026

[3:12:59] moved by councelor seconded by

[3:13:01] councelor Scott. Question concerns

[3:13:09] We got it. We okay with the secondary?

[3:13:11] Okay. Question concerns with this. I'm

[3:13:13] going to go to councelor Harper has his

[3:13:14] hand up first and councelor Scott.

[3:13:17] >> Thanks, mayor. I while I like the

[3:13:20] » Thanks, mayor. I while I like the

[3:13:20] proposal that marks a significant step

[3:13:22] in uh formally recognizing protecting

[3:13:25] the heritage fabric of Bond Head. Um,

[3:13:29] I'd hope that the the HCD plan, if

[3:13:31] passed, it comes with the right supports

[3:13:34] in place for our residents. Um, being in

[3:13:38] in an area that does have um some

[3:13:40] heritage as well in W six, the downtown

[3:13:43] core, I hope that it just balances a lot

[3:13:45] of the goals of preservation with

[3:13:47] homeowner rights, affordability, and

[3:13:49] clarity of the implementation. My key

[3:13:52] concerns are around the administrative

[3:13:53] burden part of that or potential cost to

[3:13:55] residents and then effect flexibility to

[3:13:58] accommodate the evolving housing needs.

[3:14:00] So

[3:14:02] I don't know exactly what the plan sorry

[3:14:04] I do know what the plan entails and but

[3:14:06] I hope that it does have the right

[3:14:07] supports in place for our residents.

[3:14:09] That's my comments.

[3:14:12] >> Thank you uh counc.

[3:14:15] » Thank you uh counc.

[3:14:15] Well, thank you to the consultant team,

[3:14:17] town staff, especially uh Thomas Dystra

[3:14:20] and the heritage advisory committee this

[3:14:22] term, last term, and I think the term

[3:14:23] before for their work on this

[3:14:24] initiative. This is a long time coming.

[3:14:27] It's the result of, I think, careful

[3:14:29] planning, years of consultation, and a

[3:14:31] lot of community engagement over those

[3:14:33] years. It's going to preserve the

[3:14:35] character and charm of the village of

[3:14:37] Bond Head. Even as the village evolves,

[3:14:39] it provides tools to guide change and to

[3:14:41] ensure the story of this village

[3:14:43] continues to be visible and valued. I

[3:14:46] want to especially acknowledge the work

[3:14:48] of the heritage committee under

[3:14:48] councelor Bkite's chairmanship. I

[3:14:50] believe we've done more this term than

[3:14:53] practically ever before to protect

[3:14:55] heritage buildings and recognize our

[3:14:57] heritage. Uh to councelor Harper's

[3:14:59] questions, there are some very

[3:15:01] straightforward triaged processes in

[3:15:04] this plan. there's the opportunity for

[3:15:06] property tax abatement uh for designated

[3:15:09] heritage properties and uh I think it

[3:15:11] puts a very good package together to

[3:15:14] preserve the the character of the

[3:15:15] village and ultimately it's about more

[3:15:17] than the buildings. It's about

[3:15:18] storytelling across generations, our

[3:15:20] identity and keeping a sense of place

[3:15:23] even as we grow. So I'm I'm really happy

[3:15:25] to see this hopefully coming to fruition

[3:15:27] tonight.

[3:15:29] >> Thank you. Further comments? Councelor

[3:15:31] » Thank you. Further comments? Councelor

[3:15:31] Ferdini next.

[3:15:33] >> Thank you. Um, yeah, this started back

[3:15:35] » Thank you. Um, yeah, this started back

[3:15:36] in 2018, so it's been a long time coming

[3:15:38] that we've had discussions with the

[3:15:40] public and constantly going over

[3:15:42] presentations through different

[3:15:44] committees and such. So, it's great to

[3:15:45] finally see this come to us in person.

[3:15:48] Um,

[3:15:50] Bond Head is a gem. Um, Miss Usher was

[3:15:54] up here and she was talking about it. We

[3:15:56] all we we know that there's such a um

[3:16:00] such an untapped resource in that in

[3:16:02] that hamlet and with the uh with the

[3:16:04] heritage designation this this place

[3:16:07] could be well sorry it is but I mean

[3:16:11] uh be even more beautiful. Dr. Chambers

[3:16:14] had already me always mentioned about

[3:16:16] people coming to visit Bonhead always

[3:16:18] talked about them coming to visit

[3:16:20] Bonhead. And what this does is uh if we

[3:16:23] keep that if we keep that feel and we

[3:16:26] keep that aspect to what Bonhead

[3:16:28] actually is, it's only just going to get

[3:16:29] bigger and better.

[3:16:33] >> Thank you. I've got Council Kite next.

[3:16:35] » Thank you. I've got Council Kite next.

[3:16:35] >> Yeah, I'd really like to thank all the

[3:16:38] » Yeah, I'd really like to thank all the

[3:16:38] work that the staff put in on this,

[3:16:40] Thomas Daart, and uh everyone else and

[3:16:43] even the previous planner that worked on

[3:16:45] it. I can't quite

[3:16:46] >> remember.

[3:16:51] Yeah. So, um, yeah, it's been a it's

[3:16:54] been a long time coming. I we we this

[3:16:58] plan is on the light side, especially

[3:17:00] for the supporting properties that

[3:17:02] aren't historical. There's very little

[3:17:05] that they have to do differently

[3:17:09] except for that they can't just tear

[3:17:11] their building down and put some art

[3:17:12] deco, some thing that doesn't blend in

[3:17:15] with the with the heritage district. And

[3:17:18] it's also going to put some onus on new

[3:17:22] development against those homes. They

[3:17:24] can't go like five stories high. So,

[3:17:26] it's going to offer a lot of protection

[3:17:28] and not put a lot of onus on the

[3:17:31] existing residents that are in the

[3:17:33] district. So, it's it's I think it's a

[3:17:35] win-win and uh yeah, I hope we approve

[3:17:38] it tonight.

[3:17:41] Further comments uh Deputy Mayor Sandu.

[3:17:44] >> Thank you, Worship. Um I'm very happy to

[3:17:47] » Thank you, Worship. Um I'm very happy to

[3:17:47] support this. As others mentioned, this

[3:17:50] has been long time coming. I remember it

[3:17:53] was about 20 years ago, we were doing

[3:17:55] fundraising for William Osler Hospital

[3:17:56] in Bmpton. And some of the staff did not

[3:17:59] even know where the home place was. And

[3:18:03] when I told them um they said, "Oh,

[3:18:06] we're going to take a drive up there and

[3:18:08] see. This is a gym." You said it

[3:18:10] rightfully. And Miss Usher, when you

[3:18:13] mentioned the parade, I still remember

[3:18:15] that. And I have those pictures here.

[3:18:17] This is one of my best pictures, I

[3:18:20] think, as a sheriff

[3:18:22] when we dressed up uh as as time period

[3:18:27] and and I still have pictures from that

[3:18:29] parade and it was the best parade and

[3:18:31] all the hard work that the committee did

[3:18:34] and not to mention the the work about

[3:18:36] this. Many residents contributed. Dr.

[3:18:40] Chambers who's now with us, he was

[3:18:42] spearheading it and some of our staff,

[3:18:46] they they did an excellent job and I'm

[3:18:48] very thankful and I'm hopeful that this

[3:18:49] will get passed today and we get the

[3:18:52] work beginning.

[3:18:55] » Council, as everybody mentioned, a lot

[3:18:58] of work, a lot of history, and and I'm

[3:19:00] glad that this is going to come to

[3:19:02] tuition and uh and uh there's a lot of

[3:19:04] comp there's a lot of passion in the

[3:19:06] community and and great history that you

[3:19:09] know uh that's going to live on. You

[3:19:11] know, we have new growth and but we have

[3:19:13] to preserve what what what's already

[3:19:15] there and uh and I think this is a good

[3:19:17] a good plan. So, looking forward to the

[3:19:19] vote.

[3:19:23] Excellent. Further comments or

[3:19:24] questions? Seeing none. All right. I'm

[3:19:26] just com I'm going to comment. Linda,

[3:19:27] thank you so much for coming up earlier

[3:19:29] tonight. That was great to see. And the

[3:19:31] chambers for being here today. Thank you

[3:19:32] so much. It is a big moment. Uh this has

[3:19:34] been gone ongoing since 2007 and we're

[3:19:37] finally here. And uh you know, Mr.

[3:19:39] Chambers, Dr. Chambers is not here with

[3:19:41] us, but I think you'll be uh quite

[3:19:43] excited tonight hopefully with the with

[3:19:45] the vote going through because I think

[3:19:46] it is a it is a positive step forward.

[3:19:49] Uh you know, we'll hopefully see the

[3:19:50] next uh let's say Unionville or

[3:19:53] Kleinberg, something like that. I mean,

[3:19:54] there is great potential and there's

[3:19:56] some beautiful beautiful uh areas across

[3:19:59] the province that has these, you know,

[3:20:01] unique settings within their community.

[3:20:03] So, uh look forward to seeing that

[3:20:04] happen. Bonhead has a special place in

[3:20:06] everybody's heart. So, uh, the history

[3:20:08] there is fantastic. So, look forward to,

[3:20:10] uh, having a positive vote here tonight.

[3:20:13] All right. So, I'm actually going to

[3:20:14] call the vote now. All in favor of the

[3:20:17] of the recommendation. Two, three, four,

[3:20:19] five. Unanimous. We'll call it

[3:20:21] unanimous. We've got everybody in here.

[3:20:23] Unanimously supported.

[3:20:26] Excellent.

[3:20:29] We had councelor Dhaney. She voted. Yes,

[3:20:30] she was in favor. It was unanimous. We

[3:20:33] had everybody unanimous. So,

[3:20:34] >> yes, I was in favor. Thank you, Mayor.

[3:20:36] » yes, I was in favor. Thank you, Mayor.

[3:20:36] Yeah. Yeah. We had everybody there. So,

[3:20:39] okay. So, council, do you want to take a

[3:20:41] break?

[3:20:42] >> Okay. So, uh can we pause for five? What

[3:20:45] » Okay. So, uh can we pause for five? What

[3:20:45] time is it? 10. So, be back at 10:25,

[3:20:48] please. So, we can move on because we've

[3:20:49] got till 11 before we have to uh do

[3:20:52] another recommendation.

[3:28:23] Okay, welcome back everyone. We're at

[3:28:26] 9.5 of the agenda. Side road tennis swar

[3:28:28] street naming proposed uh consultation.

[3:28:31] It's a recommendation that PLN2025-40

[3:28:34] be received and that the consultation

[3:28:35] plan proposed for the renaming of side

[3:28:38] road 10 from line 6 to county road 89 as

[3:28:41] outlined in report PLN2025-40

[3:28:43] be endorsed with staff reporting back to

[3:28:46] council on the results of the

[3:28:47] consultation at the earliest opportunity

[3:28:49] and the council endorsed staff plan to

[3:28:51] begin the solicitation of road names uh

[3:28:54] through public consultation as described

[3:28:56] in report PLN2025-40

[3:29:00] on the renaming of select

[3:29:02] select roads in the area surrounding the

[3:29:04] SWAR as described in report PLN225-40

[3:29:07] with staff reporting back to council on

[3:29:09] the results of the consultation at its

[3:29:11] earliest opportunity.

[3:29:15] Who's moving it?

[3:29:17] Okay. Moved by councelor Scott, seconded

[3:29:19] by Mayor Sandu.

[3:29:22] Questions? Go ahead. Council. So my

[3:29:24] question is

[3:29:27] uh on the swar street naming proposed

[3:29:30] consultation. totally agree with with

[3:29:32] with that and that's the right process

[3:29:34] to go for and council's not voted on

[3:29:37] anything yet. But my concern is on side

[3:29:40] road 10 council two years ago approved

[3:29:44] the road renaming. So how can what what

[3:29:47] kind of consultation process are we

[3:29:48] doing? It's after the fact. It's like

[3:29:50] we've approved a subdivision and it's

[3:29:52] half built and we're going to have a

[3:29:54] planning meeting for it. Like it doesn't

[3:29:56] make any sense. It's backwards.

[3:30:05] Does it work if we've already approved

[3:30:06] it?

[3:30:09] Okay, maybe I can have Allan ask that

[3:30:10] question or Alan, can you answer that or

[3:30:12] can Thomas? Who wants to take it first?

[3:30:16] Not me. Not me. Not me.

[3:30:19] >> Thank you, worship. Uh through you to

[3:30:21] » Thank you, worship. Uh through you to

[3:30:21] councelor Vik. And I think it's maybe a

[3:30:22] tendency of um willing to let the other

[3:30:25] go first and speak. Um

[3:30:29] so further to uh the question that

[3:30:31] councelor Vik has posed

[3:30:34] um the contents of the report are meant

[3:30:37] to try to strike a balance between two

[3:30:40] directions that staff have received from

[3:30:43] council. Uh on the one hand, as you've

[3:30:45] indicated, council's given direction to

[3:30:48] advance the renaming for side road 10

[3:30:51] from line 6 through to County Road 89 uh

[3:30:54] to Middleton.

[3:30:57] My apologies.

[3:31:01] I know the report also includes historic

[3:31:03] evidence of Middleton and Middletown, so

[3:31:05] my apologies to have uh used the wrong

[3:31:08] one. Um and uh similarly there's also

[3:31:12] the direction to uh in accordance with

[3:31:14] the street renaming guideline uh to

[3:31:17] consult with the public in the event of

[3:31:20] renaming of a public street. Uh to date

[3:31:24] um members of the public have not been

[3:31:27] notified through the implementation of

[3:31:30] the renaming guideline with regard to

[3:31:32] the side 10 renaming direction. Uh and

[3:31:35] therefore the balance the report seeks

[3:31:38] to strike is uh to use a um essentially

[3:31:42] a consultation light uh program as

[3:31:44] proposed to to use that as the vehicle

[3:31:47] to notify the public and uh and welcome

[3:31:49] feedback which we would include as part

[3:31:50] of a further report to council and that

[3:31:53] said defer to Mr. Daart for any further

[3:31:55] commentary.

[3:31:57] I also would like to add that I think as

[3:31:58] part of the consultation when we come

[3:32:00] back to council with a recommendation to

[3:32:02] rename Middletown Side Road, um council

[3:32:05] has full accounting of the public's

[3:32:07] thoughts, the financial implications, um

[3:32:10] anything that we have to do at the

[3:32:12] county level to rename the road that's

[3:32:13] not under the jurisdiction of the town.

[3:32:15] So, it would be just a full cost

[3:32:16] accounting of what everyone thinks about

[3:32:18] the about the proposal.

[3:32:22] >> Does that help you uh council kite a

[3:32:24] » Does that help you uh council kite a

[3:32:24] little bit?

[3:32:26] Yeah. Okay. I've got councelor Scott

[3:32:28] next.

[3:32:29] >> So, I just want to build on council me's

[3:32:32] » So, I just want to build on council me's

[3:32:32] question and those answers. The only

[3:32:33] thing that I would add is council

[3:32:35] approved renaming Middletown Road or

[3:32:38] Middletown Side Road from 10 side road

[3:32:40] two years ago. Nine months later, we

[3:32:43] created a street renaming framework. I

[3:32:46] have no problem with doing consultation

[3:32:49] light, but the decision's already been

[3:32:51] made. It's more I think about how it

[3:32:53] would be implemented and what we can do

[3:32:56] through the implementation. The policy

[3:33:00] comes in after the decision was made and

[3:33:03] so the decision was made without a

[3:33:06] policy in place at the time. We can try

[3:33:08] and reverse engineer it. I like the

[3:33:10] phrase consultation light, but council

[3:33:11] already made the decision.

[3:33:14] That being said, more generally, I think

[3:33:16] it's a simple and practical initiative

[3:33:18] that honors our heritage and enhances

[3:33:21] public safety because the report talks

[3:33:24] about Middletown Side Road. It's

[3:33:25] something that's colloquially known.

[3:33:27] It's more than that. It's a name that's

[3:33:29] been around for generations. It's on old

[3:33:31] maps. It's still in common use. It's

[3:33:34] actually on a series of the signs up on

[3:33:37] the road today. It's on Google Maps

[3:33:40] today. and it reflects the uh heritage

[3:33:42] of Middletown or more rarely Middleton

[3:33:46] uh which was a a crossroads community uh

[3:33:49] at the at the beginning of Bradford Bond

[3:33:52] Head and and the general area. So, this

[3:33:54] isn't just about honoring the past. It's

[3:33:55] also about reducing confusion,

[3:33:57] especially with emergencies. Today, GPS,

[3:34:00] I think, helps a fair bit, but I I've

[3:34:02] heard stories of residents calling 911

[3:34:05] saying, "I'm at such and such Middletown

[3:34:07] Road." and the dispatcher not knowing

[3:34:10] where Middletown Side Road is because

[3:34:11] technically the name is 10 Side Road and

[3:34:15] the CIO and I were talking about this.

[3:34:17] No one calls it 10 Side Road. They might

[3:34:18] call it Tent Side Road or Side Road 10

[3:34:20] or Middletown Side Road, but fixing this

[3:34:23] is a good idea so that the name actually

[3:34:25] matches what people know it as. Uh like

[3:34:27] I said, it's been endorsed by council

[3:34:28] already in the heritage committee. So,

[3:34:30] I'm all in favor of getting it done

[3:34:32] consultation light. Talk to people so

[3:34:34] they understand what's coming. um if we

[3:34:37] have to do some modest um

[3:34:42] support for the cost of changing an

[3:34:44] address, we can look at that. But that I

[3:34:47] I think modest being the key word

[3:34:49] because we're not really changing a name

[3:34:51] so much as we're standardizing the

[3:34:52] common usage in what half our street or

[3:34:55] some percentage of our street signs and

[3:34:57] what Google Maps already says. As for

[3:34:59] the SWAR, we've effectively thanks to

[3:35:01] that traffic circle created new roads.

[3:35:04] you know, line five east doesn't connect

[3:35:06] to line five west anymore. So, I I I

[3:35:09] think trying to sort that out is is not

[3:35:12] only clarifying things, but it's also a

[3:35:14] nice opportunity to find more ways to

[3:35:15] honor our heritage. And one of those

[3:35:17] streets uh is on the Highway 400

[3:35:20] interchange now. So, it's a bit of a

[3:35:22] entrance to town. So, all in all, I

[3:35:24] think this is uh something that will

[3:35:26] improve clarity on our past and help

[3:35:28] keep us keep keep people safe. And I'm

[3:35:30] I'm all in favor of moving full steam

[3:35:32] ahead on both aspects.

[3:35:36] Thank you. I've got Deputy Mayor.

[3:35:40] >> Thank you, your worship.

[3:35:42] » Thank you, your worship.

[3:35:42] Not to repeat the comments that uh

[3:35:44] already been mentioned by uh the two

[3:35:47] counselors. Um last time we discussed

[3:35:50] this was and approved by council was

[3:35:52] August 1st, 2023.

[3:35:55] I know other priorities take over,

[3:35:57] staff's busy. It took us two years to

[3:35:59] get to this point. In the recommendation

[3:36:02] itself, it says earliest opportunity.

[3:36:06] I fully know what that earliest

[3:36:08] opportunity could be. Could be a month,

[3:36:10] it could be 6 months, it could be a year

[3:36:14] based on your workload, which I

[3:36:15] recognize can change depending on um hot

[3:36:19] issues and stuff. I would like to have

[3:36:23] some sort of a date for this to come

[3:36:25] back with public consultation whether

[3:36:26] it's a month or two months um but not

[3:36:30] this is not a um timeline to go into

[3:36:33] next year. Those are my comments.

[3:36:40] Okay, perfect. Uh further comments or

[3:36:43] questions? Seeing none. Okay. I would

[3:36:45] like uh folks, if you're okay with this,

[3:36:47] I'd like to extend the SWAR renaming to

[3:36:51] side road five.

[3:36:53] It goes only to uh recognition goes only

[3:36:56] to the um east side of the bridge.

[3:36:59] >> I'd like to carry it right through to to

[3:37:00] » I'd like to carry it right through to to

[3:37:00] the fifth side road because well, I'll

[3:37:03] get hang on. You got to wait for me to

[3:37:05] say you can give me a chance. Uh I would

[3:37:08] like to get to there because in the end

[3:37:09] on the highway, you'll see one road

[3:37:12] naming coming off. So otherwise you see

[3:37:14] whatever you call it and then line five

[3:37:16] also. So

[3:37:18] >> side road. So so side road five the the

[3:37:21] » side road. So so side road five the the

[3:37:21] I would say the east side of it to back

[3:37:23] all the way back. You know what I mean?

[3:37:25] Side road five is the interchange. It's

[3:37:27] the lights right there at side five and

[3:37:29] line five. Five and line five. We only

[3:37:33] go to the bridge. We go to the east side

[3:37:34] of the bridge. And then you've got this

[3:37:36] little piece of line five to the light

[3:37:38] and then line five to 27. I'm saying

[3:37:41] just a side road five. Make that

[3:37:43] consistent. Then you got side then you

[3:37:44] got line five from side road five to 27

[3:37:47] to new tech. That's what I was uh

[3:37:49] getting at. It makes it more easy and

[3:37:51] consistent. Otherwise you just go name

[3:37:52] change name change name change. So

[3:37:54] council kite. So not that this is

[3:37:58] relevant to this mo this recommendation

[3:38:02] and that would be part of the

[3:38:04] consultation process. The problem is

[3:38:06] when people want to go to line five and

[3:38:08] they want to go to line five and whether

[3:38:11] it's in BWG or new tech, they're going

[3:38:15] to be going down and where's the sign

[3:38:17] for line five? They're going to get

[3:38:19] anyways. We can talk about that when

[3:38:21] we're in the consultation process. GPS

[3:38:24] will help you with that or like some of

[3:38:27] those funny videos your wife will tell

[3:38:28] you where it is.

[3:38:30] So now it'll be there. it'll uh I'm just

[3:38:34] saying for consistency, but through the

[3:38:35] consultation, I guess that could be, you

[3:38:37] know, talked about. Maybe some people

[3:38:38] say because if you come up the highway,

[3:38:40] you'll see coming up 400, it'll be two

[3:38:42] roads, right? So, just just that's what

[3:38:45] I'd like to see it go to uh the side

[3:38:47] road five. So, if that's something that

[3:38:50] council could support, that's not in the

[3:38:53] report, so I don't know how to put it in

[3:38:54] there because it only goes to the east

[3:38:56] side of the 400, correct? Report. So, is

[3:39:01] that something council can support to

[3:39:02] push further or you want to leave the

[3:39:04] report the report as is?

[3:39:10] Let's uh through consultation we can

[3:39:12] find out if people are okay with it. All

[3:39:13] right. Thank you. Okay. So, we're okay

[3:39:17] with uh any more comments. Seeing none,

[3:39:20] all in favor?

[3:39:22] Three four. Yep. Carried. Thank you. On

[3:39:25] to 9.6. recommendation file uh

[3:39:28] recommendation that report PLN2025-36

[3:39:30] title recommendation report file number

[3:39:33] D14-25-5

[3:39:35] and D12505 for blocks 102 plan 51M 1138

[3:39:40] and part of lot 15 concession 5 be

[3:39:42] received that all written submissions

[3:39:44] received in regard to the applications

[3:39:46] and all oral submissions made to the

[3:39:48] public meeting held on June 10th related

[3:39:50] to the applications have been taken into

[3:39:52] consideration as part of the

[3:39:53] deliberations and final discussions

[3:39:55] finally decision. Sorry. that pursuant

[3:39:57] to section 3417 planning act, no further

[3:40:00] public notification is required, that

[3:40:02] the sight specific zoning bylaw

[3:40:04] amendment D14-25-05

[3:40:06] be approved for lands known as block 102

[3:40:09] plan 51m 1138 and part of lot 15

[3:40:12] concession 5 and that the corresponding

[3:40:15] bylaws be brought forward for enactment

[3:40:17] and that draft plan of subdivision

[3:40:19] D12-25-5

[3:40:21] dated January 21st, 2025 be given draft

[3:40:24] approval subject to conditions as

[3:40:26] pendant to report PLN20-36

[3:40:29] including that draft approval lapse

[3:40:31] after three years if final approval is

[3:40:33] not achieved within that period. Move

[3:40:36] second please

[3:40:38] by councelor Scott seconded by councelor

[3:40:39] Dyiky. Question concerns we have our

[3:40:42] planning staff up here with us.

[3:40:45] Oh,

[3:40:48] » thank you worship. Just for context as

[3:40:50] well, I do believe we have a planning

[3:40:51] consultant from KLM here on behalf of

[3:40:53] Bay View Wellington and the event

[3:40:54] council has questions.

[3:40:57] >> I know we've got everybody here and it's

[3:40:58] » I know we've got everybody here and it's

[3:40:58] late at night. Okay, no questions or

[3:41:02] concerns. So,

[3:41:04] >> I will call the vote. All in favor?

[3:41:07] » I will call the vote. All in favor?

[3:41:08] Carrie. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[3:41:14] We apologize for that. procurement

[3:41:17] activities uh for 2025 first second

[3:41:19] quarters. So I have a report

[3:41:21] recommendation that report LEG 2024-6

[3:41:24] entitled procurement activities 2025

[3:41:26] first and second quarters be received

[3:41:28] for information moving a second by

[3:41:31] deputy mayor seconded by councelor

[3:41:32] Perageni

[3:41:34] question concerns with the report

[3:41:39] okay seeing none all in favor

[3:41:42] carried thank you uh we're on to 9.8 8 m

[3:41:45] elections voting method. So

[3:41:47] recommendation that report CLK-20225-5

[3:41:51] titled 2026 mal election voting method

[3:41:54] be received for information and the

[3:41:56] council confirm the use of internet and

[3:41:58] telephone voting as the voting method

[3:42:00] for the 2026 mal election put on the

[3:42:02] floor. Moved by council Gordano. Second

[3:42:04] by councelor Peragini. Question or

[3:42:06] concerns with this? Okay. I'm going to

[3:42:09] go over this side first. Councelor

[3:42:10] Jordano.

[3:42:11] >> I'd like to move to defer this to next

[3:42:13] » I'd like to move to defer this to next

[3:42:13] council meeting. I think this might be a

[3:42:15] long conversation. It's already getting

[3:42:18] pretty late.

[3:42:20] >> A deferral. Okay. You moved it. You're

[3:42:23] » A deferral. Okay. You moved it. You're

[3:42:23] deferring. You're going to deferral.

[3:42:25] You're seconding that. No, no debate on

[3:42:27] the deferral. So, you want to defer it.

[3:42:29] That means it

[3:42:31] so you have a you have a date that you

[3:42:33] want it back next me

[3:42:37] » next agenda.

[3:42:39] >> Okay, let's uh no debate. So we'll vote

[3:42:44] » Okay, let's uh no debate. So we'll vote

[3:42:44] on the def on the deferral.

[3:42:52] » I wasn't expecting this question.

[3:42:55] Um yeah, we can postpone definitely. aka

[3:42:59] deferral if you state another um meeting

[3:43:03] that you want the report to come back

[3:43:04] to. Sort of the same idea as

[3:43:06] >> deferral.

[3:43:07] » deferral.

[3:43:07] >> So we're deferring it to the next

[3:43:08] » So we're deferring it to the next

[3:43:08] meeting

[3:43:09] >> if that's what you choose. Yes.

[3:43:10] » if that's what you choose. Yes.

[3:43:10] >> Yes.

[3:43:11] » Yes.

[3:43:11] >> What I heard

[3:43:13] » What I heard

[3:43:13] >> because it's going to be a long debate.

[3:43:14] » because it's going to be a long debate.

[3:43:14] He said he doesn't

[3:43:17] >> I don't think it's going to be a long

[3:43:18] » I don't think it's going to be a long

[3:43:18] debate but let's vote on the deferral

[3:43:19] and if it defers it's okay. So all in

[3:43:22] favor of deferral the next meeting

[3:43:26] two. Okay. That's defeated. Uh, all all

[3:43:31] oppose the deferral. I'm sure I'm sorry

[3:43:32] I didn't call that yet. Opposed. Okay.

[3:43:34] So, we're it's defeated.

[3:43:39] » She's gone. She's gone right now. Okay.

[3:43:40] So, uh, this is back on the table. So,

[3:43:43] comments or questions in guard in

[3:43:44] regards to the report? Council councelor

[3:43:47] Rike.

[3:43:51] I would always prefer a paper ballot.

[3:43:55] Uh but this works well. It's been proven

[3:43:59] uh the last bi-election and the um last

[3:44:03] election. My only question is do we have

[3:44:06] an idea or if we don't can we get get a

[3:44:10] cost based on the 2014 numbers for the

[3:44:14] cost of the election multiply it by the

[3:44:17] increase in population and put in an

[3:44:20] inflation factor just to show us how

[3:44:23] much would cost to do a paper ballot. So

[3:44:26] when the public asks us how come we're

[3:44:28] not doing a paper ballot, we can say

[3:44:30] well your taxes would go up point 1%. So

[3:44:34] do you want to pay that money for a

[3:44:37] paper ballot

[3:44:42] through you uh your worship to councel

[3:44:44] Um I don't have those numbers

[3:44:46] right at my fingertips. Um I didn't get

[3:44:48] a specific costing in today's numbers

[3:44:50] for what tabulators um and all the

[3:44:53] additional equipment for a paper ballot

[3:44:54] election would cost. Um but certainly I

[3:44:57] can provide those I can get some quotes

[3:44:59] on those and provide those those numbers

[3:45:00] to council or as you said extrapolate

[3:45:02] from a previous election and provide

[3:45:05] those.

[3:45:06] >> Okay. Thank you. We'll get those numbers

[3:45:08] » Okay. Thank you. We'll get those numbers

[3:45:08] then. Okay. Further comments questions

[3:45:10] counci.

[3:45:12] I got councelor harper.

[3:45:14] Um, I'm okay with uh sticking with the

[3:45:18] voting method that we used in the last

[3:45:20] election. I found that a lot of

[3:45:22] residents were actually very thankful

[3:45:23] for that. They didn't have to stand in

[3:45:25] lines. They didn't have to wait. It was

[3:45:27] very quick. They were amazed. They were

[3:45:29] like, "Wow, I can't believe how fast

[3:45:30] that was." It unfortunately didn't

[3:45:32] really bring our voting numbers up,

[3:45:34] which kind of sucked because I figured,

[3:45:37] especially being at fingertips that

[3:45:39] you're on all the time, it would have

[3:45:41] been a lot easier to vote and get

[3:45:43] everybody to do it that the vote the

[3:45:46] vote turnout was still pretty much the

[3:45:49] same as we went to the uh as it was when

[3:45:52] we were doing the paper. I think it was

[3:45:53] the 30s. It was in the 30s and I think

[3:45:56] that's the same as what we were getting

[3:45:57] with the papers, too. So, I like the

[3:46:00] convenience of it. A lot of people told

[3:46:02] me they like the convenience of it and

[3:46:05] uh yeah, I would leave it the way it is

[3:46:06] now.

[3:46:08] >> Okay. Thank you for that. I've got

[3:46:10] » Okay. Thank you for that. I've got

[3:46:10] councelor Harper and then councelor

[3:46:11] Dyke.

[3:46:13] Councelor D next. Okay.

[3:46:14] >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh let's talk about

[3:46:16] » Thank you, Mayor. Uh let's talk about

[3:46:16] some hard numbers here. 82%

[3:46:19] 82.5% of people use the internet for

[3:46:21] voting. Um 6.6% was telephone. 10.9% use

[3:46:27] the kiosk. It's a hard telling fact. Uh

[3:46:30] numbers provided by the CEO. Thank you

[3:46:32] very much for this information.

[3:46:34] Concerning part of that is I'm I would

[3:46:36] be okay with this, but I would like to

[3:46:37] explore some more security measures in

[3:46:40] regards to um

[3:46:43] Oh, I had the word. Oh my god.

[3:46:48] What's the kind of word when you like to

[3:46:51] verify or Yeah, like some verification

[3:46:54] sort of thing.

[3:46:55] Um

[3:46:58] no because when I look at the voter

[3:47:00] turnout and I have it pretty broken down

[3:47:03] um there was 73 people from United

[3:47:05] States, six from India, two from France,

[3:47:08] two from Japan, two from Portugal, two

[3:47:11] from Israel, two from UK, the list goes

[3:47:14] on. Then there's 623

[3:47:17] that were not captured because it was

[3:47:19] due to telephone but it doesn't tell us

[3:47:21] where they were from, where they were.

[3:47:24] So like when I say I need some more

[3:47:25] security measures put in place for this

[3:47:27] stuff, I think that would ratify a lot

[3:47:30] of the points that are being brought

[3:47:31] over when people talk about paper

[3:47:32] ballots because you know who they are.

[3:47:34] But verification stuff like you have to

[3:47:36] do authenticator apps and stuff like

[3:47:38] that for a lot of things or two or

[3:47:41] twoouch uh verification um things are

[3:47:44] going in because of fraud and all that

[3:47:46] stuff. So, I like those that it explored

[3:47:48] in regards to options to basically

[3:47:50] ensure voter um

[3:47:54] verification processes is in line with

[3:47:57] like the most recent updates of the

[3:47:59] updates of that as well.

[3:48:02] I think I basically proved my point that

[3:48:05] people from all over the world are

[3:48:06] voting in a municipal election and then

[3:48:09] 623 from telephone. We don't know where

[3:48:11] they came from.

[3:48:13] So

[3:48:15] >> and I get that. Yeah. From vacation and

[3:48:17] » and I get that. Yeah. From vacation and

[3:48:17] stuff.

[3:48:17] >> Just to I can confirm your two your two

[3:48:19] » Just to I can confirm your two your two

[3:48:19] Japan.

[3:48:20] >> Yeah.

[3:48:21] » Yeah.

[3:48:21] >> Yes. I know. They called me.

[3:48:23] » Yes. I know. They called me.

[3:48:23] >> Okay.

[3:48:23] » Okay.

[3:48:23] >> Two two people were in Japan. They

[3:48:25] » Two two people were in Japan. They

[3:48:25] called me that night. They voted that

[3:48:27] you're seeing it around the world

[3:48:28] because people are able to vote from

[3:48:29] anywhere.

[3:48:30] >> No, I get that. But I'm saying if we

[3:48:32] » No, I get that. But I'm saying if we

[3:48:32] still have some more authentication and

[3:48:34] security measures upgraded, I would be

[3:48:36] I'm okay with that. I'm really okay with

[3:48:38] I just want to say that I can confir

[3:48:39] >> No, I know some people that that that

[3:48:41] » No, I know some people that that that

[3:48:41] did vote across from other countries too

[3:48:43] in this list, but my point being is that

[3:48:46] we need those certific measures and

[3:48:49] authentications to match the local times

[3:48:52] and if the banks do it, all the apps are

[3:48:54] doing it. Everything's asking you for

[3:48:56] two interfacing like, you know, two push

[3:48:59] uh notifications, stuff like that. Yeah,

[3:49:02] that's where we should be going and I'

[3:49:04] I'd like to see that come back after

[3:49:05] this report to just upgrade with the

[3:49:08] times.

[3:49:11] Um, point point well taken. Thank you,

[3:49:13] counselor. Um, that's something we can

[3:49:15] certainly explore with the the vendor um

[3:49:17] and see how that that works and what you

[3:49:20] know I can also report back on on all

[3:49:22] the security measures in place and

[3:49:24] procedures for um the system itself. Um,

[3:49:28] further reports will be coming to you as

[3:49:30] we go through this process. You know, I

[3:49:31] realize it's early now. It's uh I think

[3:49:33] it's 447 days away. So 477, maybe 447. I

[3:49:39] looked it up today, but um you know,

[3:49:41] we're out a little bit, but it's still

[3:49:42] coming close. So um certainly I'll be

[3:49:44] providing more reports to council as as

[3:49:47] more information um as we go through the

[3:49:49] process and more things develop. But I

[3:49:51] can certainly take that point away. as

[3:49:53] far as people voting from, you know, you

[3:49:55] see people from other countries voting.

[3:49:57] It it is the method that's in place that

[3:49:59] allows people to vote from anywhere

[3:50:02] literally um you know, 24 hours 24/7

[3:50:07] sort of thing from from any country. So,

[3:50:08] they could be traveling, they could be

[3:50:09] on vacation. It still allows them to

[3:50:11] vote in our municipal election.

[3:50:15] >> Okay, good point. Okay. Uh Councelor Di,

[3:50:19] » Okay, good point. Okay. Uh Councelor Di,

[3:50:19] I had the same uh same concerns. uh just

[3:50:22] upgrade to security. Uh I like the fact

[3:50:25] that we don't have I'm old fashioned

[3:50:27] too. I'd like to I would have liked to

[3:50:28] see the ballot, but on the other hand um

[3:50:31] and I'm disappointed to see not as

[3:50:33] people I was hoping to see more people

[3:50:35] uh vote uh versus last time. But at the

[3:50:39] end of the day um as we have it's an

[3:50:42] internet phone and u you know maybe in

[3:50:46] look at opportunities in in the seniors

[3:50:49] um senior centers um maybe there's maybe

[3:50:52] some ballots or whatever the case may be

[3:50:54] but at the end of the day they would I I

[3:50:56] had a few people after election come to

[3:50:58] me and said to me they would have

[3:50:59] preferred to see ballots too but that

[3:51:01] was only a a few uh comments I got but

[3:51:04] what I didn't like is where I have seen

[3:51:06] candidates go to the

[3:51:08] and then trying to convince the people

[3:51:10] to to vote. They would go into the

[3:51:13] person's house and say, you know, uh

[3:51:15] here's a here's a card. Please vote for

[3:51:18] me. And and they would force their way

[3:51:19] almost convince their way in. And uh I

[3:51:21] asked them to come forward to speak to

[3:51:23] you, Tara. But at the end of the day,

[3:51:25] this this could go on. I just hope that

[3:51:26] we could come up with a better way of of

[3:51:29] security. That's that's why I was hoping

[3:51:31] to to air all these items out.

[3:51:35] >> Thank you, Mr. Dano.

[3:51:37] » Thank you, Mr. Dano.

[3:51:37] Thank you, Kaisky. That was uh that was

[3:51:40] exactly what I was going to start off my

[3:51:41] conversation with. The problem is in and

[3:51:45] I'm going to be the devil's advocate to

[3:51:46] everyone here. Yeah, I like the

[3:51:47] convenience factor, but what do we get

[3:51:49] in return? We got no improvement really

[3:51:51] when it came to our turnout, but what we

[3:51:53] did do is we have the stronger ability

[3:51:55] for people to force or intimidate people

[3:51:57] to vote certain ways. I saw myself. I a

[3:52:00] lot of people come forward saying that

[3:52:01] people walk into a house and they're

[3:52:02] like, "Oh, sign sign. You know, vote

[3:52:04] here. Oh, let me help you." Oh, oh,

[3:52:05] yeah, that's my name over there. the

[3:52:06] next thing you know they're getting all

[3:52:07] the votes. So I'm a traditionalist. I

[3:52:10] like proper vote. It's the gold standard

[3:52:12] for a reason because you have to show

[3:52:14] up. You have to show proper ID. My

[3:52:16] biggest concern is actually how do

[3:52:17] people get their voter cards. I'm not a

[3:52:19] big fan of just providing a phone bill

[3:52:21] or something else. And I was like, "Oh

[3:52:22] yeah, okay. Here you go. Go ahead and

[3:52:23] vote." Right? No, you got to be able and

[3:52:25] eligible to vote. And I think we need to

[3:52:27] tighten that up, too, because I think

[3:52:28] it's a little too loose right now. And

[3:52:30] there's so many people taking advantage

[3:52:31] of that. It's happening across Canada,

[3:52:33] the US, and around the world. So, you

[3:52:35] know, we we're only in control of our

[3:52:36] little municipality. Let's make sure we

[3:52:38] do it right in the gold standard. So,

[3:52:39] I'm not in support of going this. And I

[3:52:41] and I will I will I will say that the

[3:52:43] convenience factor is fantastic. I think

[3:52:45] it's great, but I'm not willing to give

[3:52:47] up or erode our democracy when it comes

[3:52:50] to proper vetting of how we do things.

[3:52:53] And I don't like the intimidation

[3:52:54] factor. Those are two things that

[3:52:55] influence people and they feel pressure.

[3:52:58] And I I didn't like it. I didn't like it

[3:52:59] when I see it. I would never do that.

[3:53:01] And and frankly, I think you having

[3:53:03] somebody go and commit, that's that's

[3:53:04] our given right. You know, people around

[3:53:07] the world are coming to Canada because

[3:53:08] they love they love our laws and and our

[3:53:10] freedoms and everything else. And we're

[3:53:11] trying to make it more convenient, which

[3:53:12] is great. It's not yielding better

[3:53:14] results, but all it's it's also creating

[3:53:16] these other problems. So, I'd like to

[3:53:17] get rid of that and go back to

[3:53:18] traditional voting.

[3:53:22] >> Okay. Thank you. I've got uh Councelor

[3:53:24] » Okay. Thank you. I've got uh Councelor

[3:53:24] Scott next.

[3:53:26] >> So, just a couple of comments in

[3:53:27] » So, just a couple of comments in

[3:53:27] response to some of what's been raised.

[3:53:29] I've had the benefit of running a

[3:53:30] mayoral campaign under the paper ballot

[3:53:32] system and then running in the two

[3:53:35] online elections, the bi-election and

[3:53:37] then the general election. The the paper

[3:53:41] system had its benefits, the vote

[3:53:43] everywhere, but we had to run multiple I

[3:53:46] think it was seven polling stations that

[3:53:48] had to be staffed and they were only

[3:53:50] open on specific days. So you you had

[3:53:52] the two or three days of advanced polls

[3:53:54] and then e day. I like the online voting

[3:53:56] because it essentially has 10 days of an

[3:53:58] election. It's true that voter turnout

[3:54:00] didn't go up, but the collar to that is

[3:54:04] it didn't go down. In fact, my

[3:54:06] bi-election had seven more votes than

[3:54:08] the general the year prior. And perhaps

[3:54:11] that's because it was a a competitive

[3:54:12] seven person race. Perhaps it's because

[3:54:15] we made it easier for people. And unlike

[3:54:17] other municipalities, we didn't see a

[3:54:19] drop. So hard to prove the negative, but

[3:54:22] I I think the fact that it's maintained

[3:54:24] and I would say with without really a

[3:54:26] competitive uh race at the top of the

[3:54:28] ticket last election, the fact that it

[3:54:30] stayed where it was, that was uh that

[3:54:34] was pretty helpful. So uh I think it

[3:54:36] works as to the concern about

[3:54:38] uh

[3:54:40] vote or manipulating the will of the

[3:54:43] elector. The the Municipal Elections Act

[3:54:45] is clear what you can or cannot do uh to

[3:54:47] assist someone in voting. And that's

[3:54:49] true in person or online. Uh and uh

[3:54:55] certainly anyone who tried that I like

[3:54:56] to think isn't sitting at this table. So

[3:54:58] it also didn't work.

[3:55:02] Okay.

[3:55:05] Councelor Harper again. Thanks Mayor. I

[3:55:08] have a with me R. I have an hourly

[3:55:10] voting uh heat map here of the 10 days

[3:55:14] and a lot of the voting really either

[3:55:16] happened on the first day or within the

[3:55:18] final day.

[3:55:22] Does it have to be 10 days?

[3:55:34] » Through your worship to uh council

[3:55:36] Harper. No, the voting period does not

[3:55:38] have to be 10 days. Um it's just just

[3:55:41] allows that opportunity for people to

[3:55:43] have

[3:55:45] time even though you generally speaking.

[3:55:48] Um in any election people will show up

[3:55:50] when it first opens even with paper

[3:55:52] ballots at voting locations and then

[3:55:54] we'll wait till the very last minute to

[3:55:56] to vote as well. So, um, but allowing

[3:56:00] allowing that sort of time frame just

[3:56:03] does increase the convenience time. Um,

[3:56:06] the opportunity for people to cast their

[3:56:08] votes. Um, it just allows that extra

[3:56:10] time. Well, we have our voter help

[3:56:12] centers in operation during that time.

[3:56:13] So, we've got, you know, hours in the

[3:56:15] evening, weekend days, um, variety of

[3:56:18] hours for people to come in and get that

[3:56:19] assistance if they need it. Um, so we do

[3:56:22] like to to keep that. Um the vendors I

[3:56:25] think generally recommend a 12 to 14 day

[3:56:28] um voting period with internet and phone

[3:56:31] voting. So um it does seem like a a long

[3:56:34] time but it's also um

[3:56:37] you know just that opportunity for

[3:56:39] people to to cast their ballots.

[3:56:44] » So what would the process look like for

[3:56:47] us to either shorten that or extend

[3:56:50] that? Do we have to go through this

[3:56:52] vendor or can we make that

[3:56:53] recommendation?

[3:56:55] Because certainly when you're looking at

[3:56:56] this data that I bought out in like

[3:56:58] beautiful colors and everything down to

[3:57:00] the minute or the hour,

[3:57:04] you can clearly see that there's some

[3:57:06] room for adaptation here. And if we run

[3:57:08] it two cycles already and we don't

[3:57:11] change it based on the projections, then

[3:57:13] maybe we could and make it more

[3:57:15] streamlined and efficient.

[3:57:18] >> Again, a point well well taken. That's

[3:57:20] » Again, a point well well taken. That's

[3:57:20] something we can we can look at a little

[3:57:21] more closely. Um it would be up to the

[3:57:23] election administrators to determine,

[3:57:25] you know, those those time frames and

[3:57:28] that that voting that voting period per

[3:57:30] se and when we have the voter help

[3:57:31] center. So looking at previous

[3:57:33] statistics will help us determine that

[3:57:34] and and we will take that into account

[3:57:36] for sure in planning.

[3:57:40] got uh depor sand. I've got uh councelor

[3:57:43] and councelor Scott. We're at 1056.

[3:57:46] So um if we can get that done in four

[3:57:48] minutes, otherwise we have to do a

[3:57:50] procedural bylaw procedural uh

[3:57:54] >> Okay, I'll I'll be quick. Um I agree

[3:57:58] » Okay, I'll I'll be quick. Um I agree

[3:57:58] with this report. I I'm in favor of the

[3:58:01] method we used last election. I don't

[3:58:03] understand what the fear is of having 14

[3:58:06] days. Uh it's just um look at the

[3:58:09] numbers uh on those days. If we took

[3:58:12] those out, those people might not vote

[3:58:14] the other days. So I don't have an issue

[3:58:16] sticking with what's proposed to us.

[3:58:19] Hey, it's giving more days and

[3:58:21] opportunities for for democratic process

[3:58:24] to work. People come out and vote. So I

[3:58:26] don't have an issue with this report.

[3:58:27] Thank you.

[3:58:31] » Okay. Thank you. Uh go ahead, Coun. just

[3:58:35] are are we not trying to be consistent

[3:58:37] too with New Tech, Inisville, ESSA, and

[3:58:40] Agela? Like it's all pretty well the

[3:58:42] same time frame and they're doing we're

[3:58:44] doing joint advertising.

[3:58:49] » Yeah, with respect to the joint

[3:58:51] advertising council for kite that's

[3:58:52] generally um promoting that the

[3:58:54] municipal election is happening. Um it

[3:58:56] doesn't because we are doing SEO

[3:58:58] countywide

[3:59:00] um with respect to those specific ads.

[3:59:03] Um we don't get into sort of the details

[3:59:05] of each municipality's um separate

[3:59:08] election details, but we do encourage

[3:59:10] people the mil municipal election is

[3:59:11] happening and um give them enough

[3:59:13] information that they know to go to

[3:59:14] their local municipalities to check the

[3:59:16] information to to be able to vote.

[3:59:22] » Okay. I I should do this first before we

[3:59:24] go any further. Okay. So we don't So

[3:59:26] council I got to put on the floor that

[3:59:28] council move to extend the meeting

[3:59:29] beyond 11 p.m. until such time as all

[3:59:31] remaining items on the agenda are are

[3:59:33] addressed. So are we good with that? I

[3:59:35] need a move or a second move by

[3:59:36] councelor K. Second by councelor Scott.

[3:59:38] All in favor

[3:59:40] carried. Okay.

[3:59:43] All right. Councelor Scott.

[3:59:45] >> Yeah. Just very briefly to councelor

[3:59:46] » Yeah. Just very briefly to councelor

[3:59:46] Harper's question about 10 days being

[3:59:48] too long. It's a third of what you have

[3:59:51] fedally and proincially where the

[3:59:52] returning office is open every day of

[3:59:54] the right for you to go vote.

[3:59:58] » Okay. Further uh comments or questions?

[4:00:02] Okay. Seeing none, we will call for the

[4:00:04] vote on the recommendation. So all in

[4:00:07] favor the recommendation

[4:00:10] one, two, three. I'd like

[4:00:11] >> to call a quarter vote on this.

[4:00:13] » to call a quarter vote on this.

[4:00:13] >> Okay.

[4:00:43] Okay. So, in

[4:00:46] favor of moving forward

[4:00:50] with the voting methods for the 2026

[4:00:53] municipal election.

[4:00:56] Um,

[4:00:59] we'll start with councelor Gerardano.

[4:01:01] Please say yes in favor or no in

[4:01:03] opposition.

[4:01:05] >> No. Councelor

[4:01:10] Peter Dy.

[4:01:13] >> Councelor Perigini.

[4:01:15] » Councelor Perigini.

[4:01:15] >> No.

[4:01:17] » No.

[4:01:17] >> Councelor Harper.

[4:01:19] » Councelor Harper.

[4:01:20] >> Yes.

[4:01:22] » Yes.

[4:01:22] >> Councelor Scott.

[4:01:24] » Councelor Scott.

[4:01:24] >> Councelor Verkike.

[4:01:26] » Councelor Verkike.

[4:01:26] >> Yes.

[4:01:28] » Yes.

[4:01:28] >> Deputy Mayor Sandeu.

[4:01:30] » Deputy Mayor Sandeu.

[4:01:30] >> Yes.

[4:01:32] » Yes.

[4:01:32] >> And Mayor Leuk.

[4:01:34] » And Mayor Leuk.

[4:01:34] >> Yes.

[4:01:37] Okay. So that uh passes. The motion is

[4:01:41] carried.

[4:01:43] >> Okay. Thank you.

[4:01:45] » Okay. Thank you.

[4:01:45] We are moving on to 9.9.

[4:01:49] Mayor and Council Golf Classic Summary.

[4:01:51] A recommendation that report CAO 2025-3

[4:01:54] titled the 2025 mayor and council golf

[4:01:57] classic summary be received for

[4:01:58] information and the golf committee

[4:02:00] reconvenes in January 26 to commence the

[4:02:02] planning process for the 2026 mayor and

[4:02:05] uh council golf classic. Move second put

[4:02:07] this on the floor please by deputy mayor

[4:02:10] seconded by councelor Dyke. Question

[4:02:12] concerns with the report

[4:02:15] councelor Scott and councelor

[4:02:17] >> Thanks Mr. Mayor. So, this was a fun

[4:02:19] » Thanks Mr. Mayor. So, this was a fun

[4:02:19] event and I want to thank staff, the

[4:02:21] organizing committee and the sponsors uh

[4:02:23] for making it happen. And I also want to

[4:02:25] thank the CEO for answering my questions

[4:02:27] earlier today. I was trying to reconcile

[4:02:30] the funds raised this year, but also

[4:02:32] over the past two years with the

[4:02:36] publicly stated commitments to various

[4:02:38] events. I'm just going to focus on this

[4:02:39] year because I I had satisfactory

[4:02:41] answers to past years. Unfortunately,

[4:02:43] there seems to be a gap between what was

[4:02:46] communicated to the public about the

[4:02:47] 2025 proceeds and the actual impact.

[4:02:51] Promotions in advance, the postevent

[4:02:54] news release, and this report said the

[4:02:56] funds would go to quote essential

[4:02:58] upgrades to various parks such as Rotary

[4:03:01] Park. In reality, the tournament

[4:03:04] contributed $40,000 solely to Rotary

[4:03:07] Park. Rotary Park was only already fully

[4:03:09] funded and approved in the 2025 budget

[4:03:12] at $135,000.

[4:03:14] So the tournament offset about one

[4:03:16] quarter of its cost again which was

[4:03:17] already budgeted. This perhaps could

[4:03:19] free up that amount for for future

[4:03:22] upgrades which is welcome but it's a

[4:03:23] very different story than suggesting the

[4:03:25] event directly funded the project in

[4:03:28] addition to funding upgrades to various

[4:03:30] whatever that meant other parks. So in

[4:03:33] reality we funded a quarter of one park

[4:03:36] not multiple park projects.

[4:03:39] Any additional funding is a good thing.

[4:03:41] I'm not questioning that. But I I do

[4:03:44] worry about approving this until we have

[4:03:47] more transparency around the numbers. I

[4:03:49] I think councelor and perhaps

[4:03:51] councelor Gardano had asked last year

[4:03:52] about transparency as to the revenue,

[4:03:56] the donation side. I'm asking about the

[4:03:57] expenses side. So, I'm going to move

[4:04:01] that this report be referred back to

[4:04:03] staff with a request to return by early

[4:04:05] fall with a breakdown for 2023, 2024,

[4:04:09] and 2025 showing gross revenue from

[4:04:12] registrations and sponsorship, event

[4:04:14] expenses, net proceeds, how those funds

[4:04:17] have been spent or committed over the

[4:04:18] past three years, and what percentage of

[4:04:20] the projects were then funded by the

[4:04:22] tournament. And I I emailed the clerk in

[4:04:24] advance, so they have this. I think we

[4:04:27] owe it to the public to tidy this up if

[4:04:29] there if there was an overcommitment or

[4:04:32] uh some enthusiasm that wasn't realized

[4:04:34] in in the actual accounting afterwards

[4:04:37] because this carries the town's name. I

[4:04:40] think we branded it the mayor and

[4:04:41] council tournament. It certainly uses

[4:04:42] town resources and supports important

[4:04:44] local causes over the years. So, I'd

[4:04:47] like to uh refer this back to get that

[4:04:49] additional information. I think it will

[4:04:50] uh tidy things up and uh if mistakes

[4:04:53] happen they happen but um funding one

[4:04:56] park when the commitment was to fund

[4:04:58] various parks and the funding for that

[4:05:00] one park was just a quarter of the total

[4:05:02] costs that wasn't as advertised.

[4:05:08] Okay. Thank you, councelor Dyiky.

[4:05:12] As a as a word counselor that uh had the

[4:05:16] the road uh park upgraded and I must say

[4:05:19] I I received many calls on the problem

[4:05:22] with the old um pavilion and the people

[4:05:25] living in it and and all the problems it

[4:05:27] causes for the neighbors for Jury Street

[4:05:29] and and Holland Court. I I just want to

[4:05:31] thank the committee. I know there was a

[4:05:32] lot of funds that went to various

[4:05:35] positive things, Scan Creek and the

[4:05:37] whole whole nine yards, but I I just

[4:05:39] want to thank u for benefit. I know it

[4:05:42] was in the budget, but I haven't seen

[4:05:43] all those final numbers as well when it

[4:05:45] came to the to Rotary Park, but I think

[4:05:49] at the end of the day that it's a big

[4:05:50] improvement of downtown. So, private

[4:05:52] funding and and taxation, it really

[4:05:54] benefited old part of town. So, I just

[4:05:56] wanted to thank your mayor and and the

[4:05:58] many councils, Karen, and everybody that

[4:06:00] sits on the committee, and it's not easy

[4:06:02] to fund raise uh these projects,

[4:06:05] especially with golf course uh golf

[4:06:06] tournaments. It's not easy to get the

[4:06:08] funds.

[4:06:09] >> So, I have a point of order. I moved a

[4:06:10] » So, I have a point of order. I moved a

[4:06:10] referral and I would need a seconder,

[4:06:12] but that would then have to take

[4:06:13] precedence over general debate.

[4:06:16] >> Moved a referral. Okay. I thought you

[4:06:18] » Moved a referral. Okay. I thought you

[4:06:18] made an amendment to the motion.

[4:06:20] >> No, Mr. Mayor. I clearly stated that I'd

[4:06:22] » No, Mr. Mayor. I clearly stated that I'd

[4:06:22] like to refer it back to staff. I

[4:06:23] specified when and the items I'd want. I

[4:06:25] need a seconder on a referral motion and

[4:06:27] then that takes precedent but it is

[4:06:28] debatable.

[4:06:29] >> We've been through this twice tonight.

[4:06:31] » We've been through this twice tonight.

[4:06:31] >> No problem. Good for you. Okay. So, we

[4:06:34] » No problem. Good for you. Okay. So, we

[4:06:34] need a seconder for that.

[4:06:38] >> Your your second.

[4:06:38] » Your your second.

[4:06:38] >> I'll second it. But can I add uh will

[4:06:41] » I'll second it. But can I add uh will

[4:06:41] there be debate so I can ask for further

[4:06:43] information on other things?

[4:06:45] >> Yes, absolutely. Ask away.

[4:06:51] So I guess if if possible, we have the

[4:06:56] event sponsor, we have platinum

[4:06:58] sponsors.

[4:07:00] Uh these major sponsors are

[4:07:03] uh they're putting their name out there

[4:07:05] at the event, I believe, and I don't see

[4:07:08] why they're not listed in a in this

[4:07:11] report who's who's donating what. Um,

[4:07:16] you know, it's they're not hiding it

[4:07:19] because I believe that they're putting

[4:07:21] it out there during the the event. So,

[4:07:23] it's not private information, but it's

[4:07:26] not very transparent to the public.

[4:07:30] >> I'd consider that friendly to my

[4:07:31] » I'd consider that friendly to my

[4:07:31] referral motion.

[4:07:35] » Okay.

[4:07:37] >> Yeah. Councelor Jam, go ahead.

[4:07:40] » Yeah. Councelor Jam, go ahead.

[4:07:40] >> Yeah. Yeah, at the end of the day, I I

[4:07:42] » Yeah. Yeah, at the end of the day, I I

[4:07:42] we've had some discussions offline about

[4:07:43] this in some of the emails and um yeah,

[4:07:46] this is the type of information that

[4:07:48] when it comes to building trust with the

[4:07:50] community and everything else, it's good

[4:07:51] to know what the only concern I have is

[4:07:53] that you don't want to scare away. Um u

[4:07:57] but you know, if they're putting their

[4:07:58] logo out there and they're saying, "Hey,

[4:07:59] I'm a platinum sponsor or I'm a gold

[4:08:01] spot of a whole sponsor." There's a rate

[4:08:03] card. It's well advertised. So I I would

[4:08:06] say that that's pretty fair game to at

[4:08:09] least detail that or at least have it in

[4:08:11] buckets, right? So some some sort of

[4:08:13] transparency that shows that I wouldn't

[4:08:14] want to, you know, promote that and

[4:08:16] throw it out all across, you know, u for

[4:08:18] everyone to see, but at the same time,

[4:08:20] when you sign up for a municipal uh

[4:08:23] anything and you're giving donations, it

[4:08:24] should be a lot more transparent than we

[4:08:26] have it right now.

[4:08:30] » Yeah. Craber.

[4:08:34] Thanks, Mayor.

[4:08:36] This This is kind of a bit bugging me.

[4:08:38] It's almost like we're on a witch hunt

[4:08:40] here or something, but can I get a

[4:08:42] clarification? Like, is there a

[4:08:44] requirement that we have to like

[4:08:45] transparently show who donates

[4:08:48] privately? Do we have to reach out then

[4:08:50] to to these donors to get their consent

[4:08:54] to put put it publicly? Like, did we put

[4:08:56] it in any any position where we would

[4:08:59] tell the public that they would be doing

[4:09:01] this? I mean, it was a council mayor and

[4:09:03] council golf tournament, but like where

[4:09:06] where do we stand on this? Like, do we

[4:09:09] have to have them like I just want to

[4:09:11] know what what the actual

[4:09:13] ruling is on this because it's a bit

[4:09:16] confusing and it just like

[4:09:19] you know, councelor J, you put it right.

[4:09:21] You don't want to scare anybody off

[4:09:22] here, but like that a port like this is

[4:09:25] exactly what he might do. and we're

[4:09:27] actually getting a lot of things done in

[4:09:30] this this town. And I and I understand

[4:09:33] councelor Scott, you know, wanting to

[4:09:35] make sure that the proper places or

[4:09:37] things were were funded. And that part I

[4:09:39] don't mind with seeing where it went,

[4:09:41] but like we're tracking down and and

[4:09:44] name calling donors now and stuff. It

[4:09:47] just seems a little bit farfetched here.

[4:09:49] I'd like the ruling on that. Like do we

[4:09:51] have a process?

[4:09:54] >> No, I don't know if we have a process,

[4:09:55] » No, I don't know if we have a process,

[4:09:55] but we'll look through it. look through

[4:09:56] it. It's it's everything's fair game.

[4:09:58] This is council and mayor's golf event.

[4:10:01] So there are there is a committee we set

[4:10:03] up and uh we have members on that

[4:10:05] committee and every year we've changed

[4:10:06] them where we've asked people to come on

[4:10:08] that committee. This information is all

[4:10:10] available. Um the money's been spent on

[4:10:13] like it's almost like we're saying that

[4:10:15] I'm hiding something whatever. I'm not

[4:10:16] hiding anything. I I don't know why we

[4:10:18] think it's me. This is a mayor and

[4:10:20] council event. Some of you has actually

[4:10:22] come some of you come for photos and

[4:10:24] leave. But some of you come and play

[4:10:26] golf, some don't. But that's okay. I

[4:10:28] mean, that's this is our this is our

[4:10:30] event. I do a lot of work to get this

[4:10:32] event off. I do a lot of fundraising for

[4:10:34] it. Yeah. But I we've supported the

[4:10:36] 100th RCAF event. We've supported the

[4:10:38] 100th anniversary hall of Marsh, the

[4:10:40] Rotary Park. We supported money for our

[4:10:42] town hall for when uh our town hall is

[4:10:44] built. Council have money to do what

[4:10:46] they want in the foyer to put some

[4:10:47] extras in there. That's all going to be

[4:10:49] in the account. Everything is accounted

[4:10:51] for. We There's nothing unaccounted for

[4:10:53] here. There's nothing there's no hidden

[4:10:55] magic thing here. We are a a town. We're

[4:10:58] accountable. If you want a friends that

[4:11:00] got it, we can give you friends that got

[4:11:02] it. I have nothing to hide. There's

[4:11:04] nothing to hide. I sent a I sent a an

[4:11:07] Excel spreadsheet that the same

[4:11:08] spreadsheet that we do every year.

[4:11:10] Members of council see that. I don't

[4:11:12] know what the big idea is that we have

[4:11:14] to express who was the va who was at the

[4:11:16] uh who was the donor or whatever. I

[4:11:19] mean, they're at the golf event. They're

[4:11:21] they're on the cards. They're there. you

[4:11:22] know who they are.

[4:11:24] If you want to tell the public, go ahead

[4:11:26] and tell the public. They they probably

[4:11:27] won't do it again.

[4:11:29] So, I'm I'm I'm good with not even

[4:11:31] running a tournament again. Let's let's

[4:11:33] not do it. Let's save the time and

[4:11:34] effort because this is going to cost

[4:11:35] staff time. They're the ones that have

[4:11:37] to put this all together. We have it on

[4:11:38] spreadsheets, but Okay. So, Councelor

[4:11:41] Scott, go ahead.

[4:11:43] >> Thanks, your worship. Okay. I uh I think

[4:11:46] » Thanks, your worship. Okay. I uh I think

[4:11:46] it's fair game to ask for transparency

[4:11:49] and I I hear your defensiveness and

[4:11:52] that's fair and fine, but I wouldn't be

[4:11:54] asking for something if the advertising,

[4:11:57] the news release and this report didn't

[4:12:00] say that we funded multiple parks when

[4:12:02] we funded a quarter of one. That's my

[4:12:04] question. Councelor Vike then asked for

[4:12:06] more information about the donors and

[4:12:08] I'm in favor of more transparency, not

[4:12:10] less. But, uh, councelor Harper said,

[4:12:12] "It feels like a witch hunt." I wouldn't

[4:12:15] be here if there wasn't a discrepancy

[4:12:17] between what was advertised, stated in

[4:12:21] the news release, and stated in the

[4:12:22] report that we funded various park

[4:12:25] upgrades, including Rotary Park, when in

[4:12:27] the end, we funded a quarter of Rotary

[4:12:29] Park. That's the main thing I was asking

[4:12:31] for. I I think I think and and councelor

[4:12:34] Hyper said that piece is fair. I'll let

[4:12:35] councelor Bkite out if he wants on the

[4:12:37] donations, but I thought more

[4:12:39] transparency, not less, is a good thing.

[4:12:42] Council,

[4:12:43] >> my my question is not directed at the

[4:12:45] » my my question is not directed at the

[4:12:45] mayor. I direct my question is directed

[4:12:47] at staff uh to add this to the report.

[4:12:51] if staff consider that it's not

[4:12:54] appropriate that staff cons do that but

[4:12:58] I can ask the question

[4:13:01] not directed at this is a mayor and

[4:13:03] council culture so as a counselor I

[4:13:05] should be able to ask these questions

[4:13:09] certainly you can ask any question you

[4:13:11] want okay so we got a referral back on

[4:13:14] and they're and you have the uh reasons

[4:13:16] you have everything documented on what

[4:13:17] they want referred all the information

[4:13:19] that they're asking before they have it.

[4:13:22] Make sure you have it because I don't

[4:13:23] want to miss any. Okay. So, we're uh

[4:13:27] we're voting on that a referral. So, all

[4:13:30] in favor?

[4:13:33] Okay. Thank you. Supported.

[4:13:39] Moving on. We're on to staff request for

[4:13:41] staff reports. Any request for staff

[4:13:44] report tonight?

[4:13:44] >> Yes, sir.

[4:13:45] » Yes, sir.

[4:13:45] >> Yep. Go ahead.

[4:13:47] » Yep. Go ahead.

[4:13:47] >> Thank you again. Um, so I have a request

[4:13:49] » Thank you again. Um, so I have a request

[4:13:50] that I hope council will support. Uh, it

[4:13:52] reflects concerns we've heard recently

[4:13:54] or directly over many years from

[4:13:55] residents and it also follows a

[4:13:57] precedent council established last year.

[4:13:59] So, I'd first like to ask staff to

[4:14:01] report back on whether there are cost

[4:14:03] efficiencies or other benefits to

[4:14:04] expanding the current Britannia Avenue

[4:14:07] resurfacing project to include Wood

[4:14:09] Crescent, Julie Court, and Jennifer

[4:14:10] Court. These are some of the older roads

[4:14:12] and among the worst condition. I mention

[4:14:14] them often, but because of lower traffic

[4:14:16] volumes, they're get they keep getting

[4:14:18] pushed back down the priority list.

[4:14:20] We've had success in the past bundling

[4:14:21] roads like these into nearby projects to

[4:14:23] get them done more efficiently. In my

[4:14:25] word, Patrician Court got done a few

[4:14:26] years ago that way last year around this

[4:14:29] time. Uh the mayor had a good idea, I

[4:14:31] thought, and brought forward a similar

[4:14:32] request to this to add Ryagens

[4:14:34] Industrial Parkway to the Line 8

[4:14:36] reservicing after business owners had

[4:14:38] raised concerns. This is the a similar

[4:14:40] case, just it's dozens of residents

[4:14:42] asking. Um, sorry, I'll wrap up quickly.

[4:14:45] The roads I'm raising are already in the

[4:14:47] capital asset renewal plan slotted for

[4:14:49] future years at a cost of $555,000.

[4:14:52] Very similar in dollar scope to reagens

[4:14:55] last year. If we accelerate the work and

[4:14:57] achieve cost savings by combining it

[4:14:58] with Britannia now, I think that's worth

[4:15:00] exploring. So, I I'd like to see us ask

[4:15:03] staff to report back on this at a

[4:15:05] meeting in September. And then second,

[4:15:08] I'm also going to ask staff to review

[4:15:09] whether two small and seemingly

[4:15:12] overlapping reserve funds, the parking

[4:15:13] lot reserve fund and the capital

[4:15:15] facilities reserve fund could be

[4:15:17] consolidated into our capital asset

[4:15:19] renewal reserve fund. Uh this would

[4:15:21] streamline planning and capital uh

[4:15:23] projects. It would add roughly half a

[4:15:26] million dollars, which is incidentally

[4:15:28] roughly the cost of the road projects

[4:15:31] I'm asking to look into accelerating

[4:15:33] into the capital asset plan. So

[4:15:35] hopefully those are uh two practical

[4:15:37] proposals that I'd like uh staff to

[4:15:39] report on so we can make a decision. I'm

[4:15:40] not saying we need to say yes or no to

[4:15:43] either thing tonight, but I'd like uh

[4:15:44] the information brought back, please.

[4:15:50] » Sorry, point of order. I just have to uh

[4:15:52] declare a conflict on the Bratannu. So

[4:15:54] if you could split the vote.

[4:15:57] >> Okay.

[4:16:01] Okay. Moved by Council G. So Okay.

[4:16:04] Second. So, we have that. You've heard

[4:16:06] what councelor

[4:16:09] Scott wants on questions? Yeah,

[4:16:12] >> sure. So,

[4:16:15] » sure. So,

[4:16:15] when the reports come back, it would

[4:16:18] would like staff to highlight if it's

[4:16:20] going to push any other regularly

[4:16:22] scheduled projects back, regardless of

[4:16:25] where the savings are and how we're

[4:16:27] doing it. If it's going to and which

[4:16:29] projects are going to push be pushed

[4:16:31] back. That way we can decide at that

[4:16:33] time whether we're going to go through

[4:16:34] with this or not.

[4:16:39] » So yeah, I want I want to support it's

[4:16:41] always best to do due diligence when it

[4:16:43] looks at optimization of any type of

[4:16:44] project, but I agree with the deputy

[4:16:46] mayor 100%. I I wouldn't want to

[4:16:47] sacrifice or push back another project

[4:16:50] that is uh maybe on a higher priority

[4:16:52] list or something else, but I find that

[4:16:54] there's always ways to to look at

[4:16:56] scenarios. So I I look forward to the

[4:16:57] solutioning that they bring back and

[4:16:58] seeing how that plays.

[4:17:04] Okay. So, we're not we we can split the

[4:17:07] vote then if you want. Okay. So, we'll

[4:17:10] just vote on the re on the uh report for

[4:17:13] looking for resurfacing of the roads to

[4:17:15] start.

[4:17:17] Okay. Okay. And then we'll do the the

[4:17:19] one with consolidating the reserve

[4:17:21] funds. Okay. So, uh all in favor of the

[4:17:24] report for the consolidation of the

[4:17:26] roads repaving.

[4:17:28] Okay. Carried.

[4:17:30] Next one is on the consolidation a

[4:17:32] report for the consolidation of the two

[4:17:34] reserve uh funds to be moved into the

[4:17:37] capital expenditure reserve. Okay,

[4:17:40] that's carried to reports are coming.

[4:17:42] >> Same.

[4:17:43] » Same.

[4:17:43] >> Oh, move second. Well, the same move

[4:17:45] » Oh, move second. Well, the same move

[4:17:45] secondary. Yeah, sorry.

[4:17:48] >> Okay, good. Any further request for

[4:17:51] » Okay, good. Any further request for

[4:17:51] staff reports? Don't have any. Nobody

[4:17:53] came to the

[4:18:00] Oh, yeah.

[4:18:03] » Yeah. Okay.

[4:18:05] >> I could have brought it up for her.

[4:18:08] » I could have brought it up for her.

[4:18:08] >> It's okay. I let go. Okay. Yeah, because

[4:18:10] » It's okay. I let go. Okay. Yeah, because

[4:18:10] she didn't. She has to go through CF.

[4:18:12] Okay. There's no committee hall. We're

[4:18:14] on to Let's move on.

[4:18:18] Section 12, committee minutes and

[4:18:20] recommendations. Recommendation. The

[4:18:21] committee minutes uh and recommendations

[4:18:23] item 121 inclusive be received and

[4:18:25] approved. Move. Second, please. Move by

[4:18:28] councelor Vike. Second by councelor

[4:18:29] Dyke. Question, concerns with any

[4:18:32] amendments and recommendations. All

[4:18:34] right. Seeing none, all in favor?

[4:18:37] Carried. Thank you. We are on to uh no

[4:18:39] new business. 14 bylaws. Recommendation

[4:18:41] that bylaws 2025, 81, 82, and 84 be

[4:18:45] passed. Uh 81 is a zoning uh bylaw

[4:18:50] amendment, and 82 is a building

[4:18:52] inspector appointment bylaw. uh Lumang

[4:18:56] Yang. So, welcome to our our uh building

[4:18:59] department and then a pres-ervice

[4:19:01] agreement with Bond Head uh properties

[4:19:03] 8. So, move a second to put this on the

[4:19:05] floor. Moved by Deputy Mayor, seconded

[4:19:07] by Councelor Farerini.

[4:19:10] Question or concerns? Seeing none, all

[4:19:12] in favor? Carried. Thank you.

[4:19:16] Uh announcements. We don't have uh we

[4:19:19] have general announcements, so let's get

[4:19:21] through that. I'll try and speed read

[4:19:24] today.

[4:19:25] Um, no, maybe I'll take my time.

[4:19:30] » Okay, so we got council announcements.

[4:19:31] Proclamations and flag raisings. We have

[4:19:33] several uh in August. Fier Simco Pride,

[4:19:37] we did that today. Jamaican Independence

[4:19:38] Day on August 6th. National Peacekeepers

[4:19:41] Day August 9th. Pakistani Independence

[4:19:43] Day August 14th. Indian Independence Day

[4:19:45] August 15th. Ukraine indep independence

[4:19:47] day August 24th.

[4:19:50] On to the next slide.

[4:19:52] We have uh

[4:19:55] council uh up and cominging events. We

[4:19:56] have outdoor movies happening in August.

[4:19:58] So uh every Tuesday in August we have

[4:20:01] movies. Check that out please. And then

[4:20:03] we have Carro Fest that is uh happening

[4:20:06] on August uh 15th and 16th. So please

[4:20:09] come out and enjoy Carefest with us.

[4:20:11] Next slide. Council announcements, other

[4:20:13] events and campaigns. We have the

[4:20:14] community grant application that's

[4:20:16] opened now. Please deadline to apply is

[4:20:18] by October 1st. We also have the youth

[4:20:21] council design contest. So, please uh

[4:20:24] share that out. And there's a $150 gift

[4:20:26] card for the the best design. And then

[4:20:29] we have take our accessibility survey.

[4:20:31] So, please uh share that as much as

[4:20:33] possible to share that accessibility

[4:20:34] survey. Uh other ones we have uh events

[4:20:38] and campaigns. So, we have an open air

[4:20:40] fire burn uh fireworks ban right now.

[4:20:42] So, fire burning and fireworks ban is in

[4:20:45] effect immediately. So, please do not

[4:20:47] have any open air fires or fireworks

[4:20:50] uh until the uh ban is lifted. The uh

[4:20:53] last one is our connected edition. It's

[4:20:55] out now. Our It's out digitally and our

[4:20:58] copies will be in our buildings uh very

[4:21:00] soon. So, look for the summer connected

[4:21:03] edition. It has lots of information in

[4:21:05] there for council. Was that fast enough

[4:21:07] council?

[4:21:09] >> Record. Eh, very good. Oh, yes.

[4:21:11] » Record. Eh, very good. Oh, yes.

[4:21:11] Councelor Jordano. I think in the past

[4:21:13] you've promoted other counselor's

[4:21:15] events. Um, but I don't see my event on

[4:21:17] here and we don't have another council

[4:21:18] meeting until the event.

[4:21:21] >> Oh, okay. I was hoping to have the

[4:21:23] » Oh, okay. I was hoping to have the

[4:21:23] graphic and everything else like

[4:21:24] everybody else. Okay. So, uh, August

[4:21:27] 23rd retro block party. Um, is it open

[4:21:30] to the entire town to purchase tickets?

[4:21:32] You can go to www.vipbwg.ca.

[4:21:36] Thank you.

[4:21:38] >> Sorry, we didn't mean to miss that. We

[4:21:40] » Sorry, we didn't mean to miss that. We

[4:21:40] uh, we forgot it. I I apologize about

[4:21:42] that. Okay. 17. Confirmed proceedings.

[4:21:45] Recommendation that bylaw 2022-83 a

[4:21:47] bylaw to confirm proceedings of the

[4:21:48] regular council and committee hall

[4:21:49] meeting dated August 5th 2023 be

[4:21:51] enacted. Moved by councelor Dy. Second

[4:21:53] by councelor Harper. All in favor?

[4:21:55] Carried. Thank you. Ajournment

[4:21:56] recommendation of the meeting hereby

[4:21:58] journ at what time is it? 11:20 moved by

[4:22:01] councelor Kite. Seconded by councelor

[4:22:03] Jordano. All in favor? Carried. Thank

[4:22:06] you. Have a great evening everyone.

[4:22:08] Thank you for join joining

Sideroad 10 and “SWAR” Street- Renaming Proposed Consultation, PLN-2025-40 - Regular Council and Committee of the Whole

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