[3:54] And so it is 504. So we're going to get started

[4:00] calling the meeting order. Um, and we here are the um Brooklyn building use

[4:08] group. Um, and we'll start by introducing ourselves. My name is Mary

[4:13] Hickeyi. I live at 60 Sunny Lane. Um, I am a retired journalist. Um, I'm a

[4:21] grandma and um, I'm approaching this as a journalist looking for information,

[4:28] listening, researching um, and trying to learn as much as we

[4:33] can to share with the town whatever we find and we're very

[4:41] eager to hear everybody's thoughts and that's what this meeting is about,

[4:45] listening. So that's me. presser. Uh I also live at 63 lanes.

[4:54] I'm >> also a retired journalist

[4:57] and uh I have been around that long and very

[5:02] this community has to say about this of which I am glad to be a part. I it's

[5:07] great to see so many people so involved in so democratic term.

[5:16] I'm Andrea Seaton. My husband Mike is in the back row there next to Johnny Swing

[5:20] and I moved to 793 Brass and Jook Road in

[5:26] thrilled to be Brooklyn residents after having lived in East and raised our kids

[5:30] there for 30 years and our kids went to Landon and Gray and I was in charge of

[5:35] fundraising public relations and marketing at Grace Scott for 28 years.

[5:39] So I that way >> I'm Stan Noa who live at 65 Sunny Lane

[5:46] next door neighbor to the other two people involved here

[5:49] » and uh been in town since 1989. >> Wow.

[5:53] » Uh so um have a somewhat of a familiarity with the town. I've had the

[5:58] pleasure of serving the citizens in other capacities and appreciate your

[6:03] support and I here to support the rest of the group uh and the efforts involved

[6:08] and uh I think we've done a pretty decent job of trying to get you some

[6:14] info on scenarios that are potential and um pleasure to be here.

[6:22] My [clears throat] name is Ly Brooks. I don't live on the sunny land.

[6:27] I learned at Ky Farm lifelong resident um went to elementary school in this

[6:33] building and uh just as a lifelong resident thought this committee would be

[6:38] a good start for me to start getting more involved with the

[6:42] town. So just here to listen and talk through some ideas.

[6:48] » Oh, I'm Jess. I live at the West River in slash lodge, whatever era you're

[6:54] from. Um and this is my first time participating

[6:58] in in uh small town politics and it's very exciting and it's a lot and I'm

[7:05] learning a lot but I'm I'm really truly just really excited to see what kind of

[7:10] information we can come up with and what as a community we decide to do. I'm I'm

[7:15] just so excited. >> Yeah.

[7:18] Oh. Uh hi, I'm Emily. I'm on the select board. I'm just doing the Zoom. This is

[7:22] our show. Zoom

[7:27] » do

[7:31] I'm Mike a select board but uh Alli and I have

[7:36] been you know we brought together we want to seek volunteers primarily who

[7:41] maybe maybe you've been in town a long time maybe you haven't but maybe you

[7:45] haven't been involved in in a lot of town government so we we other than

[7:49] stand who's the veteran anchor here they're really kind of new to town

[7:54] processes and so forth. So Emily and I have kind of been trying to help

[7:57] everybody get up to speed as soon as possible and be as productive as

[8:01] possible in their work by navigating the way town meetings happen and that kind

[8:06] of stuff. So that's so we're supporting this group.

[8:10] » And if anyone doesn't hasn't gotten a signin sheet, please um let's send it

[8:14] back. >> And also there's information sheets at

[8:17] the back that everyone should uh grab if you haven't already. So we just have a

[8:21] couple little items or one little item of business. Um approving the draft

[8:25] minutes from our last meeting. >> Motion approved.

[8:31] » Second. >> All in favor?

[8:33] » I would like to add some things for my portion of the report. Uh Jess does a

[8:40] wonderful job as does Vanessa. It's a long tedious process and and I've done

[8:46] them myself and sometimes you're just in trouble getting something right and you

[8:50] miss the next time thing or two on the list. So, um, this is

[8:56] and Jess has been fantastic. I I don't want this to reflect negatively at all.

[8:59] That's not my intent. I just want to make sure that I get what, um, happened

[9:05] my mouth in my hand. So, uh, I'd like to amend item. I forget what item it is

[9:11] that uh, involve my presentation. follows it.

[9:20] Yes, it was item number six report. I'd just like to add to that um

[9:29] the the fact that um I had handed out market data on land sales in this town

[9:38] and surrounding towns going back to in 2020 as an aid in allowing

[9:46] the committee to understand what lot values might be. Should the town take a

[9:53] course that involves selling the school andor taking a part of land off of it to

[9:59] gauge some kind of value to give numbers that people might look at to make a

[10:04] determination. So that that's one item. Uh

[10:09] I then submitted a Microsoft Word document on highest and best use as it

[10:15] applied to uh how any building [clears throat] that the town might uh

[10:21] put up for sale could be enhanced in terms of providing a greater return to

[10:26] the citizens of the town. Uh I also telephoned the developer of the South

[10:33] New Fang Church and tried to get a an idea of why they chose the route that

[10:41] they did. Uh, and how they viewed that process. Um, and then I also then

[10:49] contacted the buyer and seller of a property in Vernon that had been a

[10:54] restaurant uh, and a store to get a sense from both

[10:59] of them what their motivation was for the transaction, what their motivation

[11:03] was for value uh, and uh, to better serve background information again for

[11:10] possible options here on law. But I guess those are the four things

[11:15] I'd like to add to the list that I've had.

[11:20] And with that amendment, all favor

[11:27] uh second uh action item uh I we need a motion to turn the meeting over to

[11:34] moderator Da Harper. >> So move.

[11:37] » Second. >> All in favor? Hi,

[11:43] » I'm David Parker. I don't live at Sunny >> Lake,

[11:47] you know. Um, yeah, I I'd like to keep this and I think the group would too

[11:53] keep this as informal as possible. Um, my understanding looking at the agenda

[11:58] is they're going to do a brief presentation as to what they have found,

[12:03] what they've been up to. Um, they're not here to give the sales pitch. Um and

[12:09] then conversely you are will be free after that to ask questions uh make

[12:14] comments uh bring forth any information that you'd like to share with them. So

[12:19] basically just a large exchange of intimism. Um so one would hope that um

[12:27] if you have a question or something you'd like to say raise your hand at

[12:30] that point. I'll call on you and try to know who's next and and we can get an

[12:36] order go and um we'll go from there.

[12:43] » This um we introduced ourselves like I I think I put that twice in the minutes.

[12:48] Apologies for that. Um so the sheet that I've handed out uh is something we all

[12:53] worked on. Gives you an overview of what we've been doing so far. Um,

[12:59] our assignment via the select board is pretty straightforward. Uh, gather

[13:04] information on the building, the school building and the town building. Uh,

[13:09] develop possible scenarios and we brainstormed a lot and came up with a

[13:14] gazillion different permutations of ideas. Um, and um, then sort of narrowed

[13:21] it down, which we'll get to in a few minutes. Um, then to provide financial

[13:25] models. what is this going to mean? You know, if we do this, how much will it

[13:29] cost? If we do this, how much it will save us. So, try to assess as best we

[13:34] can what the financial impact will be. Uh we also have been charged with

[13:38] hosting two townwide discussions um and summarizing the input that we hear. This

[13:44] is the first of the two. Um then finally, we are going to create a report

[13:50] uh based on what we find and and submit it to the select board. Barba, our group

[13:56] is not a decision-making group in any way, shape, or form. Uh we're not a

[14:00] recommendation making group. We are simply a factf finding group. Um and so

[14:06] that's what we're trying to do. Learn as much as we can. Consider every option

[14:11] possible. Um so we started looking at what are the things that we have to

[14:15] consider. Does the town need or want a larger town office? um how difficult or

[14:22] easy would it be to sell this building or conversely to sell the town hall? Um

[14:27] what are the costs and benefits of selling or not selling? Um what would be

[14:33] gained sort of monetarily but also sort of just in general what would the

[14:39] community gain from selling or conversely what would the community lose

[14:44] by selling? Um what alternative use is there for each of these buildings? what

[14:50] other possibilities what we can do with the property and the

[14:54] space and then finally the cost and impact which um which is where we're at.

[15:00] Um we've done uh we've narrowed it down to four main options. One is sort of do

[15:08] nothing. Leave the status quo for now. See what happens. See how the markets

[15:12] change. What might come up? Another one would be to move the town office from

[15:17] down the road to this building and sell the town office building.

[15:23] Another one would be to rent this building to seek a tenant, a preferred

[15:27] tenant, somebody that everybody would be happy with to use this building as a

[15:31] rental with the town potentially managing that as a rental property. Um

[15:37] and finally to sell this building at uh to an acceptable buyer that everyone

[15:43] feels good about and uh keeping the town office where it is. So those are the

[15:48] four scenarios that we have begun to examine. Um I don't want to go through

[15:53] this whole list of what we've done, but we've done a lot. and we've reached out

[15:58] uh we've done Stan has been super amazing about getting us information on

[16:03] the listings and the property values and the history of the building. Um we've um

[16:11] met with realtors uh to talk about the potential of selling or uh renting

[16:17] either building. Uh Jess has met with contractors to talk about the cost of

[16:22] renovating buildings. We're looking into the cost of moving the town vault. Um

[16:28] we've connected with um some nonprofit groups who have worked in in other

[16:34] communities. There are many communities around the state that are dealing with

[16:38] identical issues. And in many of them, a very common scenario is that the

[16:42] citizens form a nonprofit group, get the building from the town, and then the

[16:47] citizens kind of spearhead turning it into a community center or a daycare

[16:52] center or a various they're all listed in this sheet that I've passed along.

[16:57] Um, and getting grant money, which is a fairly complicated and arduous process,

[17:03] but there are there is grant money out there for various options.

[17:08] um most of it for uh nonprofits that sort of demonstrate a commitment either

[17:14] financially or have committees that show that these citizens are willing to take

[17:18] this over. Uh we've talked to we talked to significantly we talked to the family

[17:25] uh that gave the town the town office um and asked about the easement. There was

[17:30] an easement issue there. Um, and somebody else might be able to explain

[17:35] that better than I can. Uh, but basically this family is not uh willing

[17:41] to relinquish the easement. Um, they have their reasons. They own land in

[17:46] back of the building. Um, so that obviously would affect the ability to

[17:50] sell the building or the price of the building. Um,

[17:55] we've talked to daycare uh people in the daycare community about possible daycare

[18:00] use of the building. Um, we're just we're doing a lot and we're kind of

[18:05] going down every little path that seems viable and sometimes it's makes sense

[18:10] and sometimes like oh well this is not going to work for us. Um, and then

[18:15] finally uh we're beginning to develop these financial models which we're

[18:19] hoping to really nail down as best we can. So,

[18:23] am I missing anything? What else have we done that?

[18:30] » But we're right now we're still in the information gathering phase. We have not

[18:35] even we're not really ready to present a full report of any kind. Um, and what we

[18:41] want to hear is this is the town. What do you guys think should be done? What

[18:47] are the priorities? What shouldn't be done? What are whatever. So with that,

[18:52] back to you, David. >> Seems clear to me.

[18:57] » So yeah. Um, who would like to first? >> Can you explain the easements and what

[19:06] it allows or does not allow to be done? >> Before we go here, I just if you

[19:13] recognize to speak, just if you could say your name so everybody knows who you

[19:16] are, I'll bring the report to >> Lori now. Martachi.

[19:19] » There we go. Good. >> Uh at the time the property was donated

[19:24] to uh the town, the uh donators retained a 25- foot wide easement to

[19:33] access the property behind the lot that they were giving to the town. They owned

[19:38] a total of 180 acres and they have another way of going north of the Grassy

[19:44] Brook, but they wanted a more direct shot because it is 180 acres and it does

[19:48] go quite a ways down the mountain behind the town office. So, they retained a

[19:52] right an easement to have access to that if they're choosing to simply go across

[19:58] the property. Now, that easement, if you're standing at the round schoolhouse

[20:01] looking at the town office, you'll note there's a a line of st a stone wall on

[20:07] the south side of the town office property. It appears that that easement

[20:11] goes from that stone wall 25 ft toward the town office. So, a short distance

[20:17] between the entry door to the town office is kind of where that easement

[20:21] ends. So, you know, I guess you could lose that parking. Uh well, if if they

[20:26] want to use it at that time, family's going to move their car. That's what it

[20:30] appears to me. And and the select board members here were kind enough to to

[20:34] approach family members. And as as was said, they're not interested in

[20:39] relinquishing that. >> So, it does kind of present a little bit

[20:43] of a problem should the citizens decide you want to market that

[20:47] » to get something back should we move to this building. And I guess the probably

[20:51] the most important question is if someone put an easement on your property

[20:54] that you currently have and it's about 10 ft from your front door, but you

[20:59] think very highly about buying that property. So it it is a concern.

[21:04] » And how much is acorage is on the other side, the north side of the building?

[21:09] » Well, the whole lot is approximately an acre. So

[21:11] » and is it in flood plan? >> Uh none of it is formally in a flood

[21:15] plan. ter

[21:19] septic system is on the other side. >> The septic system is away opposite on

[21:24] the north side on near the near the stream but I I believe it's within the

[21:29] guidelines the state has mandated for a distance no buffers no. So, Alyssa first

[21:36] and then Mike. Yep, that's it. >> Um, Alyssa,

[21:40] would you stand up, please?

[21:46] » Do you have a copy of the easement >> that I could look at?

[21:53] » I'd be happy to email it to you. It's also in the town opposite in the land

[21:57] records. >> Okay. I was uh from

[22:02] gold to the town of Brookline book 16 pages 13 14.

[22:16] So, uh, you're Mike Satan. So, what's what does it cost the town right now to

[22:24] run this building without a tenants and that if we were to sell it potentially,

[22:30] what type of tax will we generate from the building, sell it, right? So, I'm

[22:36] we're modeling all that. Uh, we have some of those numbers at the at the

[22:42] moment until we refine the numbers a little further. Uh we're going slow with

[22:46] putting them out there because once you put a number out there, it's cast in

[22:49] stone. So uh so I I we have numbers for those and this is not the purpose of

[22:56] this meeting. It's more to hear what people want to do. Uh tonight I'm afraid

[23:01] if I start putting numbers out there, you know, but I'm putting all the

[23:05] numbers out there. >> It's might help people if they knew what

[23:08] it was costing us now to keep this building potentially. You must hear

[23:12] that. >> Okay. Yeah. What it's costing us now is

[23:17] probably we we originally budgeted about $15,000

[23:22] to keep this building in a kind of a semi mothball state

[23:26] » and it's costing us more than that. >> Okay.

[23:29] » Annually >> and annually. Yeah. The numbers I'm so

[23:32] annually. So where right now we're estimating there'd be in the low 20s 20

[23:36] 21,000 if we just did nothing and kept this building as it is. Okay. That's a

[23:41] pretty solid number estimate. Thanks, Mike.

[23:48] » Margaret Margaret Parisa. Um, how many acres are

[23:53] here? >> Uh, it's it's there's little question on

[23:59] that. Right now, we've been assuming it's 6.81 81 acres.

[24:05] But, uh, there are some discrepancies with the tax map. Uh, when I logged on

[24:12] to the ANRG, the Vermont GIS site, it showed some weird

[24:18] drawing outline of where the town property is. It It's not containing this

[24:24] part of the school. It's containing the other part. And it's not uh and there's

[24:29] an extension that's supposedly I should say an easement

[24:34] that was done back early uh that expires in I think it

[24:40] is 20 45. It's a 50 foot wide easement that goes from the road all the way back

[24:48] to the river. And you look at where the surveyor put that it goes right through

[24:53] this part of the school. So the person at Cardographics in Brattleboro when the

[24:59] listener sent the copy of the survey they left that out of the drawing. So

[25:04] although it says 6.81 there could be an acre that's maybe

[25:10] attributable to that total bringing it to approximately 7.74 acres.

[25:17] So there's there's a little ambiguity there.

[25:22] Um Barbara and then Gary So uh that doesn't it does that include

[25:28] the ball field um or is it just it doesn't it doesn't close the ball fin

[25:33] that's a separate piece isn't it wasn't that was given from the weather was over

[25:39] here >> oh piece

[25:42] » I believe it was but there there's the next lot where the playground is that

[25:47] was a separate lot uh there's a requirement on that but now

[25:53] that the town owns it all we straighten it out. So, whatever we do will simplify

[25:57] things for the future. Uh, but yes, that part is a part of the 6.8 acres.

[26:04] I believe the playground is approximately another acre and again the

[26:09] 50 foot by however long the this easement is is another parcel. Uh the

[26:14] weather low parcel also contains the area behind the meeting house. It goes

[26:19] down to the next property which um yeah Rick thank you uh goes down that

[26:26] far. So I don't know if that answers the question. Oh right.

[26:31] So Stan the it's the ball field down here past the stone wall. Yes. And it

[26:37] wraps the weather when they gifted that to the town. It goes behind this

[26:42] property to the church >> past the church.

[26:45] » Uhhuh. >> Yeah. There was a second de another deed

[26:48] from another person that contains the playground out here.

[26:51] » Uhhuh.

[26:54] » But I believe this lot which is not part of the ement is also part of the weather

[26:59] lot that you're referring to.

[27:04] » Jerry Leornia. We live in northern Brooklyn. We're not really getting

[27:12] not planning to move to Southern Lane. >> Yeah.

[27:18] It's confusing for me for this building. >> Who has the I I made a mistake. I got to

[27:26] clarify. Thank you, Gary. You pointed it. You actually subtly pointed out it's

[27:30] not an easement. It's leased land >> and it expires I believe it is uh 2045.

[27:38] So who are we leasing from? >> Well originally it was leased from the

[27:42] church that owned the meeting house. They leased it

[27:49] » no fee just >> you leased they leased it. So it has an

[27:53] expiration date but the comforting part is Mike is a one time or two is that the

[27:57] town now owns it all. So you can you can dissolve the lease, free that issue up.

[28:02] You can dissolve the requirement that the playground out here supposed to have

[28:06] a fence all the way around it which it doesn't. Um and I think we got a shared

[28:12] well with the So you have to want you want to maintain that or not.

[28:15] » Well, there's no there's no um penalty for doing the easement. I mean

[28:23] it revert back to the original land owners.

[28:25] » It would revert back to the original. Yeah. If you wanted to take that route.

[28:28] Yeah. >> I mean, who who is that?

[28:30] » Well, right now it's the town and original in terms of deed. If you deed

[28:34] property to the next person, that person gets the easements that are associated

[28:38] with that deed. So, it's all been done legally, orderly. So, the town now has

[28:44] is the ownership of the leased land that's leased to the what was the school

[28:48] department of the town of Brooklyn, but now because of the local resil is to the

[28:52] town of Brooklyn, which you voted on back in 2014.

[28:58] Yeah, it's an interesting question.

[29:03] » Okay. Um Dan and then Sure. >> just just a point of fact or

[29:10] information. Um this building shares [clears throat] a

[29:14] well with the church property, right? >> Yes. Correct.

[29:18] » Not only that must be adequate to supply the water that was used when this

[29:24] building was used. Uh, is that a fair assumption?

[29:27] » Yes. >> Um, and what sort of

[29:32] septic does this building have on this property?

[29:35] » It was originally designed for 95 students. When Sunny Line Daycare took

[29:40] it over, they installed a kitchen over here and that required a freestand. They

[29:46] reapplied to ANR for a permit to operate it with 55, I'm sorry, with a number of

[29:52] students. Said, "How many can we have here?" the state wrote back and said

[29:56] it's good for 55 students. So now it's 55 students

[30:00] » because of the sink or because of the >> Yeah, there was a stove they had grease

[30:06] and so forth. So >> yeah,

[30:08] » what is the date of the septic system that's serves this you know and and does

[30:14] it conform to whatever [clears throat] the state presently?

[30:18] » Well, they gave the permit so it does comp it does comply. Yeah,

[30:22] » they wouldn't have if they if they felt it wasn't they would have made some

[30:26] changes. Um >> if actually a correlated question I

[30:30] guess if the building's used changed from what it was

[30:34] uh would that require an upgrade of some sort.

[30:38] » What I've looked into that it does require another application identifying

[30:43] uh the change. I have gone online through ANR's website and looked at two

[30:49] other properties that have gone through changes from either a church or the one

[30:54] in Vernon that was a store. Um because it was a store uh with a snack bar

[31:00] restaurant, they had a pretty good number of uh gallons they could pump

[31:04] into the septic system because of that. in the in the one in uh South New Fang.

[31:13] It it was a church and it had a a reasonable size for a very small

[31:18] halfacre lot, good size seage system there. In both cases, when the

[31:23] developers applied to ANR, ANR looked at the capacity in under the prior system

[31:30] and gave both applicants an okay on it. Uh that it met uh the requirements. The

[31:37] only change that happened on the which would not apply to this well it might

[31:42] depending on what use was being utilized is that uh because the property in

[31:49] Vernon was being converted from that store restaurant to five one-bedroom

[31:54] units. The ANR people required a 220galon water tank [clears throat] be

[31:59] placed in the basement that was fed by the well. So there was a a reserve

[32:05] available should all of them decided to take a shower at the same time or wash

[32:10] their car or whatever and they but that's the only requirement for current

[32:15] usage of that property they required in the south new fame property they said oh

[32:21] there's only you know we're one bedroom two people per one bedroom prior septic

[32:25] system had that in the capacity I did for the church so you you're okay you

[32:29] don't need to do a thing I'm suspecting that if this building were be used for

[32:34] some other purpose, we'd probably get the same admitable scenario from the

[32:37] state that those other people got. But it's a good question that you've asked

[32:41] definitely. Oh, I will say one other thing. Uh the

[32:46] the the property and we don't have this problem currently unless we were to

[32:50] split up and make this a smaller lot. In the Vernon case, the state said you've

[32:58] only got one leechfield and it's right at the point in the triangle where the

[33:03] where the two roads meet, group 142 and and another road. What we're going to

[33:08] require is that you install a specific filtration septic system.

[33:14] It's probably one and a half times the normal septic system that filters out

[33:18] prefilters out the water before it goes into the leaf field. Then that was the

[33:22] and they don't have to put it in now. They only have to put it in if the

[33:26] original system fails. So pretty decent. >> Actually, just a followup. Quick

[33:33] followup is is any part of this property extending all the way to the recycling

[33:40] container, which I guess it does. Uh is any part of this property in a flood

[33:45] plane? >> Not currently.

[33:46] » No. Okay. Sort of surprising given So, but I've been here since 88

[33:56] and this probably has not happened. >> That's right.

[34:02] » Okay, Alyssa. And then listen. >> Um,

[34:06] has the easement ever been used at the town office? Does anyone know?

[34:12] » Good question. I don't think so. I >> I'm not aware of it, but that doesn't

[34:16] mean it doesn't happen.

[34:24] Thank you, >> Leslie. And then Martney, did you want

[34:27] to speak? >> Well, thinking of the second, um, if

[34:32] it's you got room for 55 people, does that mean that theoretically you put up

[34:38] 55 apartments here and >> or does

[34:45] property can handle how many people? So meaning

[34:53] or or does the does the math somehow translate differently so that you can

[34:58] have 55 students but maybe they're not living here and therefore it's only 40

[35:04] appro I don't have to ask that question. My

[35:09] suspicion is that part of the reason that we're meeting here today that the

[35:14] select board is interested and I think all the committee members if I'm wrong

[35:17] correct me is the fact that uh the town I would assume the citizens would like

[35:23] to control what comes here. So you can put restrictive

[35:27] in that it only be used for residential purposes and possibly limit the size of

[35:33] those or the number of those. It's it's a question that's a good question, but I

[35:38] I think that it probably would scare most of us in this room to

[35:41] [clears throat] know that we have 55 units on this lot.

[35:47] » Thinking in terms of what is the limit to the property. So, for example, the

[35:51] other the town hall at the moment should take no more than x number of people,

[35:57] but here there's the opportunity for more people potentially. So even though

[36:02] I'm not suggesting a skyscraper, um it's interesting to know whether

[36:08] they're rooms are 10 units versus four units

[36:15] versus I I'd be happy to look and ask them if they tell me for free without

[36:20] actually filing an application to get some help for you, but I I'm suspicious

[36:26] they probably wouldn't do that or suspect they wouldn't do that. So I uh

[36:29] I'm sorry I couldn't answer your question.

[36:34] » Leslie and then Johnny. >> Yes. So my question was very similar to

[36:38] that. What kinds of restrictions would be put on this building for use and who

[36:43] puts those restrictions on us?

[36:48] » Uh that's one question. And then the other is what reasons have been given

[36:53] for why the existing town hall might not be sufficient anymore?

[37:06] So you might be you might be implying the wrong thing. There has not been any

[37:10] conclusion that the town office is sufficient.

[37:13] » Okay. Uh it's it's I think one of the this this building folks would say would

[37:19] give you more flexibility because you could do town hall plus

[37:23] » and then uh the second thing is that there was a presumption for a while that

[37:28] and there still is that you know the marketability of this building versus

[37:32] the marketability of that may be materially different. Uh the the

[37:37] marketability of commercial space like this is you know they're all over the

[37:42] place. uh and and launch as a single home might might be more marketable.

[37:49] » Very good. >> But and but none of it and then um that

[37:52] those are the kind of things I have been hearing but but none of it is cast in

[37:57] stone and none of it about like the town office is insufficient.

[38:02] I don't think we think with any identification that that our town office

[38:06] is insufficient for our needs. Right. In fact, one thing that uh Stan did was he

[38:11] looked at other towns of uh other towns and the size of their town halls and uh

[38:20] concluded looking at the uh square footage, the population of the town that

[38:26] uh the Brooklyn town hall is pretty much on par with other town halls, even for

[38:31] towns that are considerably bigger than ours. So it's not like we have this tiny

[38:35] little town hall for this gigantic town. We have a little town and a sufficient

[38:41] town hall uh when compared to other towns.

[38:46] » And then just in reference to the earlier question about who puts

[38:50] restrictions on this. Did I understand that it's the town that would do that?

[38:54] zoning

[38:58] state or nobody else can think what kind of uses

[39:02] » they don't have zoning here. So pretty we're pretty flexible.

[39:06] » Johnny two points. Uh one I'm going to stick

[39:10] with my nitpicky semantics. The town office should be called the

[39:14] town office not the town hall. >> It's not a town hall. town halls and

[39:17] buildings are very different from multiple buildings than

[39:22] which was last time you were here would be called the town building. Um that's

[39:27] been corrected. Um the other thing is that the student listing of 55 students

[39:34] negates the fact having kids go there that there are adults in the numbers

[39:40] too. So probably more like 65. You're talking 55 students. model.

[39:46] » I'll rephrase my statement which again I apologize for. Individuals I didn't mean

[39:51] to imply that was only students. It's 55 individuals. You could go online and

[39:56] » No, I'm just saying when when you're a student, the numbers I'm imagining 55,

[39:59] it's your fine realistically. I hope that would be

[40:08] » um >> Marne you wanted to say something and

[40:11] then Laura >> I was just thinking my question was what

[40:14] can it physically handle so the septic system can there's only the option here

[40:21] for a larger number of people whereas there's probably not the option there

[40:26] whereas the people can choose to make any restrictions so our voting is

[40:33] different than what's physically possible, but I just want to say I was

[40:37] asking about what's physically possible.

[40:43] » So my question kind of um comes off of hers is that so there's one well

[40:50] um can either property get its own well? >> Oh yeah.

[40:55] » So there there's Okay. And how about the septic system? Is there two se separate

[41:00] septic systems? very familiar with those.

[41:05] » It's easy to split.

[41:14] » I would just say that while it's nice to know this stuff, right? It's a good good

[41:18] to have this information. Septic systems can be replaced, new wells can be dug.

[41:23] It's not a particular limiting factor other than, you know, time and money.

[41:27] » Time and money. But uh if we're not overly limited by those state law

[41:34] that let's say can't afford to do something about it.

[41:40] » Um yes too core. Um I guess bringing back you know

[41:45] this this lady's question. When we lived back in Pennsylvania, the developer of a

[41:51] sizable property failed to make repairs to his septic sewer system for the

[41:57] development and in the end township was forced to take over at a cost to them. I

[42:06] don't know what the rules are here in the state of Vermont. They're still

[42:09] pretty new [clears throat] >> and I know this will be down the road,

[42:14] but is there anything like that in here where the town could be liable to assume

[42:19] responsibility for a fail to property?

[42:25] I wouldn't know how to respond to that other than it would seem to me

[42:30] well I don't want to I don't want to legal stuff but I don't know how they

[42:35] would have gotten a permit if they have a permitting system to put in something

[42:38] like that without having to >> they did so over the course of the 10

[42:45] years they just failed to >> oh I don't

[42:50] shouldn't be someone else's fault >> well the township got stuck taking it

[42:54] done >> I I have no idea what the parable center

[42:56] did, but

[43:01] » Okay, Dan. >> Um, I just wanted clarification and this

[43:05] may not be relevant to the state either, but I know in real estate that you can't

[43:12] put stipulations on your buyer if you're if they're doing what you know the code

[43:20] is. we aren't necessarily allow to or we're allowed to say we don't want more

[43:26] than three units and we don't want these kind of tenants like if you sold the

[43:30] property I mean that doesn't but

[43:36] » I I am under the understanding that a seller

[43:41] can put covenants on property that it sells and and that term I believe

[43:48] includes that and I'm not an attorney and I don't stand here alleging that I

[43:53] am. I would probably refer the town hire an attorney that might be able to answer

[44:00] that question. >> Yeah. Okay. Because I just if it's like

[44:04] sounds great if we get to say we don't have 40 units here, but [clears throat]

[44:09] do we actually want to be able to say that?

[44:12] » I'm going to talk about the research. I can let you know.

[44:15] » Yeah. You know, some of us >> we know he's looking into that. I can

[44:19] look into that more. I don't know if anyone has looked at their deeds. Some

[44:22] of you might have mobile home restrictions. I've seen those a lot

[44:24] looking at properties here. Um, so that you know, people sell it and they say

[44:29] you can't ever put a mobile home on this again. Um, I don't know. I don't know

[44:34] Vermont property laws if there's anything that specifically says you

[44:36] can't, but generally you can put restrictive covenants in a deed. Um, I

[44:41] bet most realtors would tell you not to if you want to get a good price.

[44:45] uh not a lot of people want to accept something with a lot of restrictions.

[44:49] But yeah, >> I think that's um you've touched on

[44:54] something would be valuable to know more about is what options does the town have

[45:00] to say what comes next here if we sell this

[45:05] and how would that affect the market ability of property? So say

[45:10] if it's even possible to do that. Go ahead. Marjgerie.

[45:14] » Uh Marjorie Ray, I was wondering are any parts of the building actually um I know

[45:20] we have an old front section but is it considered historical? Is it like part

[45:24] covered as a historical building? >> My understanding is no.

[45:29] » So you can put the vault anywhere. >> Hope you don't have to worry about a

[45:33] window. >> It's old but it's not historical or any

[45:38] registry or anything. All right. Uh Bruce and then Gary Bruce Mellow. Uh I

[45:43] can't answer your question is what Mark said because it's not on historic

[45:48] registry. The building from this building that you're sitting right now

[45:52] was built in 1929. So you can look at it for your own opinion whether you think

[45:57] it's historical or not. The second thing I would like to point to is I would like

[46:02] to back up for a second about an observation I made about the town office

[46:06] this morning with respect to the easement. I I wanted to go walking in

[46:11] there to see

[46:30] that

[46:36] comment to it. When you read what you're finding

[46:55] [laughter]

[47:00] over the stream along the road and then come straight

[47:06] that two of the concrete bridge near the town

[47:11] office and the stand ft both front and back was almost a

[47:17] square but not quite I don't think

[47:35] I don't know

[47:37] And then you say you met two realtor. Did they

[47:41] get a report

[47:46] of selling it with the market value? >> He did. But the first time we spoke to

[47:52] the facility, Robert from he said the top

[48:18] elementary propert,000

[48:25] square foot building.

[48:30] So there's what he said was there's a lot of

[48:35] virtually

[48:53] sheated

[49:07] One of the comments that said

[49:15] commercial.

[49:26] So the entities that

[49:32] members here married uh as well that they made some inquiries when and we

[49:38] also contacted um a what's called ACCD is now DC

[49:44] something. Uh they have funded a lot of projects throughout the state. Uh the

[49:50] director sent out a list to me. Uh and I know Mary got a similar one for me. She

[49:56] checked with and what you'll see there on my list there were six different

[50:00] parcels that were developed. All five of the six went residential

[50:06] because the closing shortage was easier to get grants for it. All the

[50:10] complexities that go on with commercial. There was one of those six that went

[50:14] half residential, half commercial. So the biggest option, the most

[50:20] advantageous position would be should the citizens choose selling this

[50:25] building would be looking at residential use. It' be the more marketable of the

[50:29] two. Um just as a point of comparison and

[50:33] South Newane um there was a um there was a nonprofit uh New South community

[50:41] association. It was given a donation of a church uh and it then sold that church

[50:49] to a smallcale developer who is going to turn it into two or three residential

[50:53] units. >> Two two

[50:57] um the asking price initially was uh $299,000.

[51:02] It sold for $56,000. So just sent to the mark. That said,

[51:08] there's a big need for housing. there is uh grant money to people who are

[51:13] developing housing. Uh so I guess the developer felt it was a a good thing

[51:20] $56,000 and whatever he has to put into it. He will then either sell these or

[51:26] rent these residential. >> Can I just Did I read this wrong? So it

[51:30] says that it sold for 6 56,000 down from the asking price to

[51:36] » I I missed a comma. It should be it sold for $56,000

[51:41] mama. That is down from the asking price of $299,000.

[51:51] » And then Bruce, >> um I don't have

[51:55] a opinion or an objective with a statement shortly. Just registering

[52:01] slight disagreement about the easement and the viability of selling that

[52:06] parcel. Um, in terms of I think Stan, you were just stating it makes it much

[52:11] less desirable. Um, sure, easements are great not knowing who's going to come

[52:17] and go, but essentially I kind of see it as a driveway to get to this other

[52:21] property. So, it would just be, you know, that family or whoever's

[52:25] associated with that family. And it's very very common in Vermont that a lot

[52:29] of people live absolutely right on the side of, you know, main corridors that

[52:35] are very, you know, populated compared to an easement that's getting people not

[52:42] even to a full-time residential home. So, I just I'm not trying to say I think

[52:47] that building should be sold. I'm not trained. I'm just simply stating I don't

[52:51] know how

[52:54] much of a negative impact it is. Unless it's used here for logging,

[53:01] » Bruce. >> Well, there's a huge uh committee. There

[53:05] were several or three realtors that went to both buildings.

[53:09] Can you share with everybody what they what those realtors thought of the

[53:15] marketability of the town office? Robert Doyle was the first one to see

[53:20] the town office of the two realtors and we were brainstorming. Ly was there and

[53:26] uh I others he uh yeah he said um that if you sold it to somebody to turn it

[53:35] into a primary home, you could visualize walking in having the kitchen to the

[53:41] left, the master bathroom about where the vault is part of the bathroom that's

[53:47] there now, but building it into where the vault is now. having two bedrooms uh

[53:52] where the back meeting room is. There's lots of closet space there. And then

[53:57] that leaves a very small living area, but Lyall had the great idea maybe

[54:02] getting rid of the basement access so that you'd have more room on the first

[54:07] floor and then you'd have to go outside and into a bulkhead to get to the

[54:12] basement, but it would give you more living space. So, all of this was pie in

[54:15] the sky. What would you do? And uh if the town decided to sell that building

[54:22] and sold it to um a spec builder who wanted to say pay $100,000 for it and

[54:30] then sell it as a primary residence for say 200,000. All of these are pie in the

[54:36] sky numbers. Um that could be a possibility because there is a shortage

[54:41] of housing in the area of houses that are in that price range. Um, we did talk

[54:48] about the pros and cons that if it were sold that the parking for the round

[54:52] schoolhouse would no longer be available across the street. Um, but uh that was

[54:59] where we left it with Robert Dy. We wanted to make it very clear that this

[55:04] was all back in the envelope thinking and nothing written in stone. Uh, and at

[55:11] the time that we met with him, we didn't quite know about, we didn't know what

[55:16] the uh, specifics of the easement were, but he said that, you know, you can sell

[55:22] a property with an easement, but it probably will bring the property value

[55:25] down somewhat depending. It's all in the eye of the buyer.

[55:30] Fortunately, [clears throat] the realtor that I had asked to come gave a number

[55:34] for this building, but they have not. And even though I've asked a number from

[55:38] the other building, so I can't add to that any man, shape or form.

[55:43] » I opinion though is that this building a lot more value that building

[55:50] and she just she could not say a reason why you think that has come to this

[55:54] building in what you saw. So she didn't really bother to address it for that was

[56:00] her those are her two and then she came back with the number on this building.

[56:05] Okay, Dan first and then moderate second and then Johnny third. Um I'm just in

[56:12] asking questions more at the moment, but um I wonder if it would be uh in

[56:18] addition to the couple of realtors you've spoken with, um

[56:23] maybe talk to somebody who's developed um

[56:28] say residential property in this area to find out um

[56:34] would they envision if they were to purchase this property for residential

[56:39] use, would They would they be inclined to keep this building or just tear it

[56:44] down and build something altogether new? And the same goes for the town office

[56:48] properties. Would that building be you know demolished to make way for

[56:54] something else or would they adapt that present building or housing as you were

[56:58] describing? I just was wondering if that >> so we are trying to connect with

[57:03] smallcale developers to just try to throw out there hey if if this building

[57:08] were to come on the market what sort of interest might there be we've been in

[57:12] touch with um the Vermont um office of housing which has a program uh for this

[57:20] is this is so common around the state and this t the state has a program for

[57:25] developers where they share resources it's called homes for All we're trying

[57:30] to connect with people from there to get answers to some of those questions.

[57:36] » Thank you. >> Martin, you were next and then Johnny

[57:38] Swing. >> Guess I have I have two comments. Uh

[57:42] let's say we end up selling this building.

[57:45] » Where do we meet

[57:50] » is

[57:54] not a town hall. town office is not all and um

[57:59] » um I don't know if all of us would fit into that back living room. That's why

[58:06] we're meeting here. >> Brooklyn meeting. I was right there.

[58:10] » That's a possibility. And then we also talked about there are places that we

[58:15] could rent for the town meeting or you know town meeting. So it's definitely

[58:19] there are options. >> I mean there buildings all over the

[58:23] place that could be else.

[58:27] » And the other thing I know you keep talking about the South New Church, but

[58:30] what's that acre land? We have six, >> right? And I think if you want to

[58:35] continue to try to compare the math to their property, I think we need to find

[58:40] some other ones with that throughout the state because a lack of affordable

[58:46] workingass housing is what we need if we need

[58:50] anything built throughout the entire state. And um it's very stressing that I

[58:57] mean that's a lot of depressive things going on around but but that was my is

[59:04] we just see some other options where they have a big piece of property that's

[59:08] like an acre. We had also been in touch um with the Windhams and Windsor Housing

[59:13] Trust which um is a it's so in Northern Vermont there's something called Rural

[59:19] Edge which has taken a lot of buildings, school buildings, old churches and

[59:23] turned them into small rental units. Nobody's talking like 40 units and

[59:28] nothing. They're really two or four or six. Um, we were in touch with this

[59:33] Windham Windsor Trust and they were not interested because they only deal with

[59:39] uh buildings that have municipal services. Um, so so that was one avenue

[59:44] we went down. It was sort of a dead end, but we're continuing to pursue whatever

[59:49] we can find out. I mean, there's just so much out there in terms of the state and

[59:53] housing funding and programs. is just a lot and so we're looking into as much as

[59:59] we can without sort of since no decisions made we can't really go too

[1:00:03] deep down the road but we're trying to learn as much as we can

[1:00:08] » um I slightly disagree have a different view of value

[1:00:13] this building um having had friends that come up to look

[1:00:18] at places to to buy or move here there's virtually nothing built um that house

[1:00:25] just north of Dutton 's farm stand on Route 30 sold for $300,000.

[1:00:31] That shack three of the properties on flooded twice

[1:00:36] a year. >> Um I see this building is worth much

[1:00:40] more in the four to five range. I just can't imagine houses that are selling

[1:00:45] around here for 300 are chunk and you're you know up in the four range more.

[1:00:53] You get somebody from New York City come in here, an artist, you know, somebody

[1:00:56] successful to come in here and just make this into a studio and a garage

[1:01:00] downstairs. Like, whoa. You don't have to you don't have to develop or

[1:01:03] anything. Just let somebody's imagination go wild. You know, it's you

[1:01:07] know, I would much rather live in Brooklyn than off the edge of Route 30.

[1:01:10] » Yeah. And and when we're talking you can't, you know, 300 seems like a high

[1:01:14] side. I'm like 300 seems like a rock bottom.

[1:01:19] I'm faffled by by by now. Are you suggesting going to the

[1:01:24] market as is? I'm saying if you thought of selling this, I would certainly go to

[1:01:28] the market as is with stipulations. I think you could literally say a single

[1:01:32] family unit has to be and this place would go in a week at 450.

[1:01:37] » That's that's interesting. So I mean the property in Dmerston on on up on Hill's

[1:01:42] farm every house up there has been marketed

[1:01:46] between 6 and 8 and they are on the market for three days

[1:01:50] and and yes Hill's farm is definitely walk you know not walking distance but

[1:01:55] you know five minutes to the best grocery stores. Brooklyn's very

[1:01:58] different but Brooklyn's really special. You come across this bridge this town

[1:02:02] has such a wonderful feeling. Everybody's going there for everybody.

[1:02:06] It's it's a like a breath of fresh air. you're not caught up on Route 30. It's a

[1:02:11] it's a really amazing town and I'm just baffled to hear that this this building

[1:02:18] which I see could be somebody's home chaply or multi-units.

[1:02:24] » You know, this could be divided into two or three units and still go for 200 a

[1:02:28] unit. I just I think I think the numbers are off of what you're getting

[1:02:32] » when you hear of that property just north of Dutton for 300. Charm of the

[1:02:37] town has always been we're on the way to nowhere.

[1:02:42] [clears throat]

[1:02:46] » Sorry.

[1:02:49] » You may be absolutely right. They're just recording what?

[1:02:51] » Yeah, I know. I'm saying I just I'm a different view.

[1:02:56] » Well, I like the art the artist view. >> Well, it's not just

[1:03:01] coming up to New York City. There is absolutely nothing available right now.

[1:03:04] Like and you know I heard you mention 100,000 it's like a h 100,000 you

[1:03:09] couldn't you couldn't find a trailer for 100,000 200 there's that was only two

[1:03:15] realtors I have a third realtor lined up when I come back and if you have other

[1:03:20] realtor Grayson you know Grayson right he just he just bought a house and moved

[1:03:25] to south you know to west but I >> so any suggestions on who we should talk

[1:03:32] to would be super helpful >> I think it's buyer right this minute.

[1:03:39] I'm sure I think this time because I I I'm in

[1:03:44] support of what you're saying and you you know don't really know right but but

[1:03:47] it could very well be worth all that just in order of while I'm not going to

[1:03:51] present numbers tonight. Um I am a numbers guy and if and the numbers that

[1:03:57] we've crunched so far they've been screened a little bit but but they they

[1:04:02] could change so not to say what they are but if in order of magnitude and it's

[1:04:06] not insignificant gaps the most expensive thing for us to do according

[1:04:11] to my modeling is to do nothing just sit on everything. That's the most expensive

[1:04:16] scenario. Uh, by the way, when we used to rent this out, uh, it used to cover

[1:04:22] not only the cost of this building to operate, but the cost of the town hall.

[1:04:25] So, we actually had a little profit center when the nurse when

[1:04:30] so now so now we're going to now we're

[1:04:35] going to the you know, we do nothing worst case, right? So, so the clock is a

[1:04:39] little bit ticking on that. Uh, but just so to move the town office here and to

[1:04:46] uh uh, you know, have space to do other stuff and sell that building at at some

[1:04:50] of the we talked about is kind of and and I've been measuring over 10 year

[1:04:54] period. Okay. And the next one down is move the town office year. That's the

[1:05:00] second uh most expensive. Now, that could change could change

[1:05:04] depending on uh the third uh lowest cost option, if you will, is

[1:05:11] if we could find a a tenant that didn't even pay too much money, but would then

[1:05:16] cover the cost of operating the building, you know, the heat, light, and

[1:05:19] power, and maybe pay us a little rent that would be the next lease expensive

[1:05:24] or whatever you want to say. number three and and

[1:05:28] uh materially so if we could get any reasonable amount for this building

[1:05:33] whether it be 200 whether it be 300 whether it be 400 is materially the

[1:05:38] lowcost option and comes with a risk you know I think I've heard some of the risk

[1:05:43] in the statements that folks are making who's coming in what are they going to

[1:05:46] do >> uh and and but but just by order of

[1:05:49] magnitude selling this building so far on paper purely is is the lowcost option

[1:05:56] Nothing is the highest town hall to red school three.

[1:06:01] And does the have you have you ranked the most profitable versions because the

[1:06:08] cost is not necessarily >> that is that it's all in all in so as a

[1:06:12] matter of fact we do if we depending on what we get for the school right I think

[1:06:16] we have to spend some money to make it readily available depending on what we

[1:06:21] get we could have a profit >> well

[1:06:24] » I'll call well except that if you put in units here then the revenue to the Now

[1:06:31] with taxes >> well I'm factoring in tax. I'm back to

[1:06:34] your assumption about if this became a taxable property what might the property

[1:06:39] taxes be and and uh that would be a benefit of selling this building that

[1:06:44] was in in all likelihood it would become a tax paying propert. So that's all in

[1:06:49] my mind all in the model. >> How many units did you was your high

[1:06:54] number of unit? >> I just have a dollar amount. I don't I

[1:06:56] don't I don't I I units I'm like what could I get for this building? It's not

[1:07:01] about the unit. It's about the building and generally speaking the square

[1:07:04] footage and generally speaking what residential properties pay per square

[1:07:08] foot in town back again >> uh Gary and then Pat two points. Yes. In

[1:07:17] the original meeting we had for this Sally Fagley volunteered to get into

[1:07:23] this. Did anybody check with her? >> No, but I I actually had thought about

[1:07:28] reaching out to her and will >> she mentioned that she would be

[1:07:31] interested in looking at the market and making a report.

[1:07:35] » We'll reach out to her. I think the more realtors we speak to the better.

[1:07:38] » The second point is that seems like to sell this commercially is not viable

[1:07:44] » and that housing residential seems to be the way to go. So I wouldn't even

[1:07:49] consider trying to get commercial people in here with the extra expense of the

[1:07:54] Franklin etc.

[1:07:59] » Um Pat you're next and then we >> um so in your modeling that you're doing

[1:08:05] you have some models that just have the school and the immediate yardage

[1:08:10] property around it with a field separate and town kept the field separate.

[1:08:14] » Yeah. Yes. I think we made an assumption about, you know, that S had said some

[1:08:19] things at meetings about, you know, this playground go a septic out here goes out

[1:08:24] to that driveway or whatever and then we'd keep the

[1:08:27] » feel. But it's it's not that refined yet that I could say I've adequately

[1:08:34] incorporated that, but we assume that we wouldn't necessarily need to sell off

[1:08:37] the fields. >> We would sell what we need to sell.

[1:08:41] » Yes.

[1:08:44] And then Barbara, >> um, my comment was pretty much on fire

[1:08:49] with Pats. Just wondering that additional acreage that is the field,

[1:08:54] which I I understand might be nice for the town to continue to to have if they

[1:09:00] want to do something on it. But just the fact that since I've been here in 22 or

[1:09:05] 23 years, I haven't seen anything go on in that. and that it may be additional

[1:09:11] revenue for the town at a time that we might need it also with maybe

[1:09:16] restrictions or would the option to buy when this pro if this property was sold

[1:09:22] for the people that was buying. I'm just thinking there's there's some some

[1:09:26] really good options and I and the best use okay

[1:09:31] » for the town and a separate sale of that land has not been something I've

[1:09:35] incorporated yet into my assumption. So that's a good point that even more.

[1:09:40] » Okay, Barbara already and then Julie. >> Um my question is is can we advertise

[1:09:46] this as a rental property just to see if there's an interest of anyone, you know,

[1:09:54] before we made money on it. Um anyone that they care for, but there might be

[1:09:59] another interest in it. Um, is there an interest or a a reason why we

[1:10:08] couldn't you know advertise it just to see if there is anyone who wants to rent

[1:10:12] it? >> So, can we do that without the approval

[1:10:16] of the residents? My understanding was we were going to sort of it was going to

[1:10:21] be up to the town what we wanted to do. Are you suggesting just sort of was it

[1:10:24] to test the waters? Yes. put it on to real,

[1:10:29] » how would we know if it was viable to rent it if we did make money on it um in

[1:10:34] the past that maybe it would be >> Yeah. I guess if somebody came in

[1:10:39] tomorrow and said, "Hey, I want to rent a place." And it was a reasonable number

[1:10:42] and it, you know, helped us enough. >> Yeah.

[1:10:46] » Yeah. >> I guess the select board could say,

[1:10:49] "Hey, let's do that." And by the way, time out. We're not going to do that

[1:10:53] other thing that we said we're going to do for a couple years. would have put on

[1:10:56] ice for a couple of year. >> That's a scenario that's possible. It's

[1:11:00] not nothing nothing keep us from doing that other than we kind of be changing

[1:11:05] the game if you will >> like pop rentals for winter

[1:11:10] you know Christmas I don't

[1:11:13] next year in >> but I'd like to piggy back on our

[1:11:18] comment which is it's a lot easier to sell property than it is to buy and if

[1:11:22] the town owns this property it would be really I think the most advantageous

[1:11:26] thing would be to figure out a way to keep the property and not lose money

[1:11:30] which would be op, you know, if Barbara's idea or option three could

[1:11:34] could be figured out. And it's just it seems shortsighted to sell property.

[1:11:40] » We could always vote as a town to do exactly that. It's one of the scenarios.

[1:11:45] » No. No. >> And then if it if it fails, right, and

[1:11:47] try to do it, then we come back and say, >> "Hey, it's not worth it."

[1:11:52] » Right. Right now it's an anchor and it's a problem. Right. But but you know if if

[1:11:55] it was marketed properly and it didn't have to be sold it would be a wonderful

[1:11:59] asset for the town to continue you know having this and you see plenty of

[1:12:02] situations where towns sell property and like 20 years later

[1:12:06] like damn it I wish we still had that. Sure. Like

[1:12:09] » well that's optional list right now is is to keep it and rent it,

[1:12:13] » right? The other question sort of piggybacks on that which is say the

[1:12:17] property sold regardless of what it's sold for. I assume that the money goes

[1:12:20] into the town's coffers and therefore somehow either lessens the tax burden or

[1:12:25] enables us to buy something else or do something and you know that's a large

[1:12:29] amount of money. Do you advertise that over 10 years, 50 years, 100 years, one

[1:12:35] year? I mean, what is the you know, one year you look like a king, but you know,

[1:12:39] » Yeah. >> Everyone loves you because the tax is

[1:12:43] gonna, you know, >> Yeah. I I you know, I didn't get to that

[1:12:46] part of it. I just, you know, it is sold in year two. I'll go through a 10-year

[1:12:51] period, cash in, cash out, you know, and and so on some of these things, we I

[1:12:57] assume we sell the property in 2028, you know, and we pick up $300,000, whatever

[1:13:05] it goes to offset uh other expenses. Julia, you have the floor now. Okay.

[1:13:12] I just wanted to say I think it would be a terrible terrible waste of this

[1:13:17] building to move the town office into this building. I feel very strongly

[1:13:23] about I love our time to just

[1:13:29] perfect in this building. I my dream for this go

[1:13:34] is for to be an artist's collective. I don't know if

[1:13:39] you friends.

[1:13:48] » I agree with you, Julie. Had the town office was meant to be the town office

[1:13:52] was given to the town, etc. But I think it'd be shortsighted to

[1:13:58] sell any of our real estate with the the values that were presented to us and it

[1:14:04] seemed extremely low. the values of property are going up rapidly

[1:14:11] and uh you know the the projected value is is way more than than what's being

[1:14:17] proposed here. So I just think it'd be shortsighted to sell any of our

[1:14:21] property. >> Uh [snorts]

[1:14:25] let's see if Jess spoken. happened. >> Uh I just want to say that the the

[1:14:31] option of moving the town office here is uh something we're exploring because

[1:14:36] enough people have said what if >> what if we move the town office? And

[1:14:41] it's not it's not a like we need a new town office. It's not anything like

[1:14:45] that. It's just an avenue that's been brought up enough for us to have it be

[1:14:49] one of the things that we're seriously exploring. So, just to clarify that

[1:14:54] nobody's, you know, saying our town office isn't

[1:14:57] good enough because by goodness, it really is.

[1:15:02] » Can I clarify what you're clarify what you're saying? You said, do

[1:15:06] you think we should hold on to the I guess holding on to old property? You

[1:15:11] said tennis office.

[1:15:16] Uh, and this pursuing a rental and new year pursue a rental.

[1:15:22] » Okay, >> Dan, you and then Gary.

[1:15:27] » Um, well, I don't again I don't know what the viability would be of

[1:15:32] finding a renter. Um well, I don't know what the viability of any of these

[1:15:37] options is exactly, but um this it seems like this building is large enough to

[1:15:43] accommodate perhap potentially multiple uses at

[1:15:46] once. Um you know, like rent different spaces separately. Um,

[1:15:53] » I don't know if there's anybody that would be interested in renting, but you

[1:15:56] know, I mean, just about every room in this building has its own bathroom, so

[1:16:01] that's convenient if someone wanted to like use room as a studio or workspace

[1:16:07] of some sort. >> Um, it would be I could see that

[1:16:11] happening or that being useful to somebody potentially. Um, and the other

[1:16:17] thing is it would be it'd be really I think helpful if

[1:16:23] somehow the town could I know this isn't going to happen

[1:16:27] building gets sold for housing, but if we could somehow hang on to the use of

[1:16:32] the downstairs for town meetings and you know town functions of any kind for that

[1:16:38] matter because um I mean you know it's been said that we have the church next

[1:16:44] And we do, but uh at least in my uh judgment, that building needs a lot of

[1:16:53] expensive work to get it to the point where this building pretty much already

[1:16:58] is in terms of year round viability and you know, proper heating, lighting,

[1:17:05] everything else that you need for a you know, usable, functional yearround

[1:17:11] space. So that's just uh some thoughts.

[1:17:16] » Uh my name is David Roach. We moved here basically in 22. So

[1:17:24] if this is going to be looked at at a rental or a prospect for rental,

[1:17:31] who meets? Is it one person, two people, or does

[1:17:35] the whole select board or would it be you guys

[1:17:40] as a committee that's formed sit down and talk to the individual or

[1:17:45] individuals interested in renting this? So there's more. I don't know if we have

[1:17:53] other prospects that came forward and who met with him or anything else, but

[1:17:58] my concern as a citizen that's lived here and seen things that I don't

[1:18:05] necessarily agree with, but I believe if you have prospects,

[1:18:12] there should be at minimum three people sitting down, whether you meet with a

[1:18:17] realtor or an individual company or an indiv individual person

[1:18:23] so that everybody there takes notes and there's no bias.

[1:18:31] You ask you ask questions back and forth. You get a final

[1:18:36] touch or feeling what that individual's willing to pay or what they want. Does

[1:18:43] that make sense what I say? >> Yeah. Cuz right now, who beats somebody

[1:18:50] if there was interest since this building sent empty since last year? Who

[1:18:56] met with these people? And I'm sure there was people that came

[1:19:00] because I've met people from other towns that said they were interested in

[1:19:05] renting this building and we haven't heard a thing. Whom who

[1:19:11] met with these people? I'm a taxpayer. I'm interested in what's going on in our

[1:19:20] area. >> So are we Dave. I don't think any of us

[1:19:24] are familiar with any of >> Well, that's what I want to know.

[1:19:27] » Not that. >> So I think it should be more than one

[1:19:31] individual or two individuals. It should be a group or a committee just like

[1:19:36] that's already formed here or the whole select committee

[1:19:41] or a large large percentage of people so they can ask questions just like you're

[1:19:49] interviewing somebody for a position. Is that understandable or am I out of line?

[1:19:56] » Do you mean what's a decision or do you no individual say we put this out for a

[1:20:02] rental? >> Right. So, but that would that's the

[1:20:04] part that's the part uh that we're trying to figure out now.

[1:20:06] » Right. Right. >> But what I'm saying is when we get to

[1:20:09] that point >> should be one member of

[1:20:12] » one more than one input

[1:20:18] trying to say >> it should be a control.

[1:20:21] » Yeah. >> So, so to come to

[1:20:24] » Yeah. I think an answer is appropriate at this point.

[1:20:26] » Yeah. So my response is this committee's job is not to go beyond helping us

[1:20:34] decide which option we want to pursue. >> Right?

[1:20:37] » At the moment that their that charter does not include that let's say the the

[1:20:41] the town decides they want to rent it >> their charter does not include managing

[1:20:46] » the rental property. >> But so at that point who would meet what

[1:20:50] the interested part was. >> So the answer would be how do we want it

[1:20:54] right? If we do what kind of has been the history, it falls in the domain.

[1:20:59] It's called fel in name name domain of the select board. Uh Bruce has typically

[1:21:05] been on point. Uh I think we've only had two tenants right since correct

[1:21:10] » since the time. One was some >> a previous nursery school and subsequent

[1:21:15] nursery school. And I'm guessing you were probably on point with those folks.

[1:21:19] But the select board ultimately reviewed and signed up on the leases.

[1:21:22] » Yes, >> we could continue that. We could decide

[1:21:25] to set up a a subcommittee, which I think would be a great idea.

[1:21:30] » Change that. >> Yeah.

[1:21:31] » Uh and you know, people could either get voted to it, appointed to it, run,

[1:21:35] whatever. Doesn't have to be the select court right now. I think legally it

[1:21:40] rests with the select board. The select court could vote to delegate that

[1:21:43] authority to a subcommittee. We can do it any way we want.

[1:21:46] » I think the select subcommittee. >> So, first we have to decide. That's what

[1:21:49] we want to do. >> Yeah. I mean a subcommittee would make

[1:21:52] more sense >> than just one

[1:21:53] » than just one one person. >> Sure. But we first have to decide is

[1:21:57] this the ravenue. >> Well, from what we're hearing, the best

[1:22:01] thing that we know is um from what I'm listening, not saying

[1:22:07] anything was everybody feels we can make more money off a rental as per say

[1:22:14] selling it for commercial. So, if you're going to have rentals or

[1:22:19] whatever, >> you should have some type of

[1:22:23] subcommittee over watching.

[1:22:26] » Sure. >> What's going on?

[1:22:28] » Sure. >> When and if we get to that point.

[1:22:30] » Yeah. When we when you or us get there. >> Yeah.

[1:22:34] » We have a lot of people who want to say things. Um Marjorie first. Gary, you had

[1:22:38] your hand up. There were some other hand. Barbara had her hand up. So, let's

[1:22:43] My brain can only handle so much at once. How about Marjorie Gary Bar and

[1:22:48] then we'll redo at that point. >> I just want to say I'm glad to hear that

[1:22:51] there has been interest that you know people that have been interested because

[1:22:54] I haven't heard of I've only heard stories of oh they came and they looked

[1:22:58] at it but now they can't. So it would be great if we had some people that wanted

[1:23:02] to rent it. >> Yeah, that's

[1:23:06] I was offended when they said that was it the Windsor Housing Trust that they

[1:23:10] want to go someplace where there's municipal services. But we have the best

[1:23:15] road crew.

[1:23:21] » That's true.

[1:23:30] » It's true. >> Contractors in town that responded to a

[1:23:35] flood we had were spot was washed out and they just came and fixed it in

[1:23:40] coordination with our town crew. I mean, we have a lot of stuff going on here.

[1:23:44] That's good. >> That was offensive.

[1:23:48] » Did you leave the chairs like out for a second?

[1:24:00] » I'm sorry.

[1:24:04] » Next. >> Just to speak to Dave's point there. I

[1:24:09] have met with uh the supervisory union and Bruce here to show they had they

[1:24:17] showed an interest um and were very interested other than it doesn't have uh

[1:24:23] the right amount of fiber coming in for their phone systems that they need. So

[1:24:28] that was a big downfall there as uh tenants. Um, and then we showed it to

[1:24:34] Kindle Farm over the winter. Um and that didn't amount to a call back

[1:24:41] but uh I have been talking with Bob TBO the superintendent and he's spoken to um

[1:24:48] the CEO of Grace Cottage and they they're kind of interested in trying to

[1:24:53] get like a co-op daycare for their employees so that um and he was thinking

[1:25:02] of our facility just for But that would be, you know, it would

[1:25:08] have to be advertised. See if there was an interest in um, you know, evidently

[1:25:13] they had enough families that need child care. Um, or

[1:25:22] yeah. Um, but anyway, that is so that's just

[1:25:27] how he started. It was just show.

[1:25:34] » Anybody else? Stanley. >> Yeah, just two quick comments. Uh the

[1:25:39] numbers that uh Andrea and myself spoke about from the realtors. Um

[1:25:45] I I know the numbers that I got from the realtor that I asked me consider is not

[1:25:51] a number that I support as an individual, but they're they're they

[1:25:56] sell it real estate and have for years. So they they've come up with those

[1:26:00] numbers. I I'm not saying I support that and I hope I don't create that

[1:26:04] impression. I think at one point in one of the meetings, Michael Seaton asked me

[1:26:09] what I thought the property was worth and he probably thought I was crazy uh

[1:26:13] at the time. I and I'm not gonna I don't think I should say the number because I

[1:26:17] don't want to influence anything any anybody anyway.

[1:26:20] » In regard to easements, I all I can say is this. I appraised the property for 26

[1:26:26] years. Not one appraisal, but I did over that

[1:26:30] 26-year period had an easement like the easement we have here at the town

[1:26:36] office. And that tells me something. I don't have to analyze it. They just look

[1:26:40] at nobody. So, whatever anyone's opinions are, they're they're an opinion

[1:26:45] of your of yourselves, ourselves. Uh and and and so that's that's all I have to

[1:26:51] say. I think it's important to keep in mind too that the family that has the

[1:26:54] easement on that property also donated the property for where the town office

[1:26:59] now sits, right? >> So, you know, that's an important part

[1:27:03] of the equation to keep in mind. >> Can I ask a question? I would love to

[1:27:07] hear um what everybody thinks should be done. Does the town need a building like

[1:27:13] this be a town office? Should it be a community center? Should it be a daycare

[1:27:18] center? Does anyone have any ideas that we should be looking at that we have not

[1:27:23] yet explored?

[1:27:29] » I think it should be a pushing not really long since we last

[1:27:34] pulled back closed but just because I hear young families that are in need to

[1:27:40] go to work and have to go to Brad, >> right? go to grab her and then come back

[1:27:44] up the valley to go to work at either the hospital where

[1:27:50] » Johnny what was the event that the school was

[1:27:54] paying you what were those >> 24 and change a month and change

[1:28:01] » I mean >> plus plus they picked up fair amount of

[1:28:04] expenses obviously utilities utilities I'm just thinking thinking outside the

[1:28:08] box here if the town developed this property for say rental units you Could

[1:28:13] you fit three or four rental units in here? And there's not a rental unit

[1:28:16] that's not going for less than 1,500. You know, you could, you know, obviously

[1:28:20] there's a there's a cost to getting it up to that level, but you know, there's

[1:28:25] a lot of clamoring for low-inccome housing. Not that that's low-inccome

[1:28:28] housing, but there is really no housing of any sort available for people. So, I

[1:28:32] mean, it that would be a much bigger commitment for the town to make this

[1:28:36] into a property. But it is if there is a large enough demand in the town not to

[1:28:41] sell the property but to rent it. That could be an option worth that could be a

[1:28:45] fifth option you were thinking about which is investigating the cost of

[1:28:48] turning this into whatever feasible amount of rental properties. I'm

[1:28:53] guessing you would like a scenario like that would be somehow somehow granted

[1:28:58] grant dependent because I mean you're talking about a big town investment in a

[1:29:02] high risk to overinvest in this building and hope that you know that you get a

[1:29:07] payback >> and there really aren't there

[1:29:11] rental units. >> Correct. Right. I mean I can't really

[1:29:15] think of them. So I don't know just thought right

[1:29:19] » Lori you were next. Fran I saw your hand up. Marne, I saw your hand. So there's

[1:29:23] next three. >> Um I'm really torn um as to what should

[1:29:29] happen with a building. I went to school here when it was just really a one room

[1:29:34] school. Um and I realized the need for daycare. I also like the idea of elder

[1:29:42] care. Um even our own local, you know, it was a very small kitchen. Um but you

[1:29:50] know even some senior meals um again you know some

[1:29:57] community meetings um there's a lot of uh those of you who don't know we hope

[1:30:03] formed a new history group for the town of Brooklyn uh and trying to preserve

[1:30:09] our our Brooklyn history and there's no place to keep that you can't keep it in

[1:30:13] the round schoolhouse because it's not temperature controlled same way the

[1:30:17] meeting There is there is a drill in the town

[1:30:21] office for that. Um, so we have a wealth of historical information that sits in

[1:30:28] cardboard boxes and is kind of >> done here,

[1:30:32] » right? And this could also be um a point for people to and people come all the

[1:30:39] time from the round schoolhouse for chore, but we can't keep that material

[1:30:44] in there year round because it's it's >> kind of falling apart. um the

[1:30:51] materialist. So I mean I I'm really torn, but then at the same time I'm like

[1:30:55] we could use the revenue as a town as as tax base uh and we can also use it like

[1:31:02] Johnny had suggested you know lower uh people's tax base for however many years

[1:31:08] based on whatever we get lower price. So, I I mean I I'm really torn. Um

[1:31:15] but I think we have to look to make a decision at the numbers. The the bottom

[1:31:21] line is numbers and who's going to maintain this building. I think Cruz

[1:31:25] right now you do a lot of this as volunteer and Mark um

[1:31:32] » it's a lot to be responsible for to maintain and so I mean eventually that's

[1:31:38] going to have to really be a serious line item in the budget town budget is

[1:31:42] maintaining their >> and I in my modeling I'm assum

[1:31:47] the labor >> and we're volunteers in the town you

[1:31:51] know it's great to see new new people involved is very appreciated. So

[1:31:58] [clears throat] that's where I stand. >> Tran, you're next. And then Marty,

[1:32:02] » I was thinking along the lines of housing also to be able to convert this

[1:32:09] into housing or apartments for people want to

[1:32:15] population here in the town. Um, do we want to be uh landlords? Does the town

[1:32:23] want to be a landlord or can we get the governor wants

[1:32:28] his whole thing is let's get more people here and there aren't enough housing.

[1:32:33] There's not enough livable space for people.

[1:32:37] Aren't they supporting that up in the Burlington area? and and and you know,

[1:32:43] could that be funding that we could get here to convert it into livable units

[1:32:50] for the town to do it for to get um funding from the state.

[1:32:57] We're looking into those. The problem with that kind of grants, it's a long

[1:33:01] process. So maybe, you know, it's competitive. Maybe we could. I mean,

[1:33:07] there's certainly grant money out there. It's just it's not a quick fix if we're

[1:33:12] looking for a quick fix. >> A lot of the grants are sort of seed

[1:33:15] money. They're they're not $50,000

[1:33:20] 18month process and paperwork and so forth to get $50,000 or just see money

[1:33:26] and then you got to go find other money.

[1:33:31] [clears throat]

[1:33:36] Um, like I was just thinking it would be so it looks I'm guessing that I'm more

[1:33:43] um it looks like you're taking notes. I was thinking it would be so nice to I'm

[1:33:48] sure they'll be somewhere that we can buy someday. But wouldn't it be nice if

[1:33:53] I go home and you'll say, "Oh, my buddy John Doe would totally buy this for a

[1:33:58] million dollars." And yes, I can talk to people, but if I could go online to a

[1:34:02] Wikipedia and say, "My buddy so and so would like this property for personal

[1:34:09] house, what?" And then I think it could get this much. And then,

[1:34:15] you know, we could go through the list of everybody's ideas of what they want

[1:34:18] or what they actually think are plausible and somebody could check it

[1:34:22] off. No, Warney's friend John Doe was a a dead not interested, but at least

[1:34:29] there'd be a list of all the ideas and then you know how they were followed up

[1:34:35] or not followed up, who the realtor was, who wasn't um

[1:34:42] yeah, just so that everybody everybody in the town, not the people who are

[1:34:46] here. I don't know if that's a big bureaucratic ask to have a website like

[1:34:51] that or not. Sure. >> Yeah,

[1:34:55] » there is a vast majority of that in the minutes from every meeting because in

[1:34:59] the minutes we are discussing who's contacted who, who's making progress

[1:35:04] with what and so it's not a full list, but it is a great deal of what we're

[1:35:11] doing. Every single meeting is >> people would prefer that there's a

[1:35:16] gatekeeper to that. But I was also going to give you nice if they could be more

[1:35:20] of a Wikipedia style except maybe not >> deletable or something.

[1:35:26] » It's easier to to list. >> Second thing is we have a web designer

[1:35:32] in our midst. >> We have a p we have all our meetings

[1:35:36] everybody on one page and agenda. >> We also an email address but anyone can

[1:35:42] and I keep putting it out there. anyone is can mail us ideas on this email

[1:35:47] address and then we could sort of uh compile those and share those with

[1:35:51] everybody. >> I I would add too you guys meet every

[1:35:54] two weeks on Tuesday. So the meetings are open to the public.

[1:35:58] » We would love people to show up. >> So that's another avenue.

[1:36:03] » Um let's see. Are we Yes, we are. My three green here Danny and then Bruce

[1:36:08] and did I see and Carrie? Um, this isn't exactly addressing your question on what

[1:36:14] I want. I think there's a lot of ideas here that are really exciting, but

[1:36:20] mostly I just wanted to thank each and every one of you for stepping up to do

[1:36:23] this. And I'm asking you through the process when we met

[1:36:32] » when we met down in the basement six, nine months ago. And it was, you know, a

[1:36:40] lot of ideas were thrown out and this committee wasn't even an idea then. Or

[1:36:44] maybe it was. I didn't know what this committee got made as a product of that

[1:36:49] meeting. And I have seen them follow through on everything we suggested that

[1:36:55] day. Well, what about this? What about that? And each one of these individuals

[1:36:59] I know has researched to know in what the plausibility of whatever we have

[1:37:05] brought forward to them. and so which has only made it that much more

[1:37:09] complicated. Okay, [laughter] >> think not done but mostly just wanted to

[1:37:15] say thank you and I see the dedication and the hard work and I also see how

[1:37:20] heated this can be because everybody kind of has their opinion about what

[1:37:23] they want but you all have done a really good job at staying neutral and just

[1:37:27] reporting facts. So thank you. >> Thanks Danny.

[1:37:35] commit to quickly say it's been a wonderful committee to be on. I've been

[1:37:39] on a lot of conflict. This is a great one in every way.

[1:37:43] Everybody contributes in their own way and we all work together very very well.

[1:37:48] So, it's been a lot of fun. But I'm glad that when Mike and Emily hired us, so

[1:37:54] picked us out. Um they said there is an end date and it's November 2nd is when

[1:37:59] the general election is, which is when we'd like to ask the taxpayers of

[1:38:03] Brooklyn what they would like. So now we're wrestling with that is how do we

[1:38:08] word a ballot and how do can we do it in one ballot and you know that's what

[1:38:13] we're up against now. So the deadline was very appealing

[1:38:18] » and this would be Australian ballot correct. So townwide voting on

[1:38:23] » we'd have to warn 30 days in advance October 2nd

[1:38:28] the steps have been taken to allow that to happen. So Bruce, you were next and

[1:38:33] then Carrie. >> Well,

[1:38:36] I'd like to see this healthy process continue and conclude at some point.

[1:38:42] There's some a lot of things I found very interesting

[1:38:46] and some things I'll read for it. But that's not for me for

[1:38:51] now. I like I said, I want to see the process go and keep on going.

[1:38:57] What I really want to address is this daycare issue that keeps popping up.

[1:39:01] And it was said that Kindle school came here. Yeah. They were interested about

[1:39:06] eight or 10 kids going here. Yes. The WCSU came here both times. Both both of

[1:39:13] both groups. What was not TBO came with his tech person and his

[1:39:20] and his building person who takes care of all the buildings for we met for an

[1:39:25] hour and a half. And I saw very little interest in a daycare. But what

[1:39:31] everybody is not knowing hasn't been mentioned because I only mentioned it

[1:39:35] last week at the selection meeting because Mary called me out on it in a

[1:39:39] nice way. I didn't know about this and I thought that you guys did know about it

[1:39:43] but it was I wasn't even going to bring it up but then I was told no you got it

[1:39:50] » and I was I had met >> Okay, sure.

[1:39:54] » Okay. because I met with uh the people that

[1:39:58] own Pumpkin Patch in in Putney and they are presently at the Putney in

[1:40:05] » that's a daycare. >> Yes.

[1:40:08] » And how that was presented to me because I got an email from Stephanie who was in

[1:40:13] that office for many years for Sunny Lane Daycare and she is a human resource

[1:40:18] person for that daycare. So we set up a meeting. They came over. I want to say

[1:40:24] two and a half, three weeks together. And it only m it only managed to be

[1:40:29] about 40 minutes. It was kind of weird because I knew the woman and she goes to

[1:40:35] my church, but I never really had conversation with her. So we uh between

[1:40:41] myself, the two her I don't even know remember her name, her husband and

[1:40:47] Stephanie, we all had a a very pretty quick uh sing to the choir conversation

[1:40:54] about daycarees and their reaction was they would they got to go someplace but

[1:41:01] they didn't feel that they could do it here for a lot of reasons which I don't

[1:41:05] think it's necessary for me to go in to every specific reason. But it daycarees

[1:41:12] have not worked in this town. It's been proven. It's been proven by two Let me

[1:41:17] finish police >> by two confident

[1:41:22] people. The second one, Susie Cudamar, I remember when I first talked to her, she

[1:41:27] was hot. She was so excited to be in this building. And every one of her

[1:41:32] personnel that was here four years will be four years now. I think this January

[1:41:39] gone by the time they left they had problem with personnel. They had a

[1:41:42] problem with getting kids here. They had problem with cost expenses. It goes on

[1:41:46] and on. So it's not a very simple process to to get a daycare and has what

[1:41:52] has to be considered is all the cost when you say we're going to have a

[1:41:55] daycare committee here. Well, what has to happen is they have to find out what

[1:42:00] the costs are to run a daycare and also in conjunction with the state and that's

[1:42:07] just the facts of life and those two very competent daycarees hold out.

[1:42:17] I I just want to point out I don't think that it's typical for a municipality

[1:42:23] to generate and or create housing and then manager

[1:42:31] uh having a couple rental houses and I uh I can't imagine a select board member

[1:42:39] wanting to to think that on top of everything publicly know is our building

[1:42:45] commissioner and just the the work he has is is staggering to begin with.

[1:42:52] just to add something like that and the multiple personalities. It's

[1:42:58] » it would if we decided that this should be housing then I hate to say it but the

[1:43:04] the way to go would be to sell the building and and the buyer manage it

[1:43:11] » get into if you're going to do that instability of people

[1:43:17] that would be somebody's headache

[1:43:22] » right

[1:43:25] » I just wanted to add this information that I don't know for statue but if you

[1:43:33] do sell this building and we keep the meeting house um the the septic system

[1:43:40] is probably 150 years old. So we probably start using that building

[1:43:48] for more population. You probably have to upgrade the septic system

[1:43:54] » and drill a well >> because

[1:43:58] » and I believe you can only I believe a a well has to be 200 ft from the reach of

[1:44:05] your license. So with that in mind that narrows down

[1:44:14] » some of that, >> you know, rental if you were going to

[1:44:18] rent it, I feel like there's capabilities of getting enough money

[1:44:26] so that the income pays for an upkeeper, you know, somebody maintain stuff.

[1:44:35] Yes. So, >> but again, Brooklyn is a very nice

[1:44:40] actually highly soughtafter place to live. So, whatever we do, we shouldn't

[1:44:46] give it away. >> I believe Johnny nailed it. I stand

[1:44:53] behind John's opinion 100%. >> And

[1:45:01] it's a great asset. All of our buildings are great assets.

[1:45:07] There's a lot of potential here. >> It's all on you, Jen.

[1:45:17] » Uh, yeah. Um, I just worry that uh I I know

[1:45:22] there's a trying need in this area and the entire state probably for housing

[1:45:29] that's affordable for a working family. Um, or even a working person, couple. Um

[1:45:40] but my fear is that what gets built generally is if left to their own

[1:45:48] devices to developers is what will make them the most money

[1:45:53] » which is probably a big fancy vacation home or something like that. I don't

[1:45:57] know if we sell this property for housing we're going to necessarily get

[1:46:01] the kind of housing we necessarily need and watch it. So that's what concerns me

[1:46:07] about they're selling this property and losing complete control over what

[1:46:12] happens. I think just throw in that's a great point and the folks in South New

[1:46:19] to find get opinion from a very responsible developer who had done

[1:46:23] projects that they liked very consistent historically

[1:46:27] constant community and somebody who had some kind of a social

[1:46:32] motivation as well like this. Yes. But again, that's excuse me uh sort of a

[1:46:39] different very different scenario than what we got here. To my mind at least

[1:46:43] that was a church that they want to convert to housing and what we're

[1:46:48] talking about here is I don't know a [clears throat] much building and a

[1:46:52] larger piece of property. I don't know. I don't know if it compares us, but

[1:46:57] » Bruce comment and we have no zoning in town and it's 1,000% correct. If we sell

[1:47:05] it to the developer, my they can do whatever the hell they want. If they

[1:47:10] sell it with land, eeny meeny miny mo, they can do whatever they want on this

[1:47:15] land and the story. You're right about the management department. We don't

[1:47:19] agree much, Carrie, but we agree on that. So I think we need to spend the

[1:47:22] time and let the this is my opinion and doesn't happen often but we do it right.

[1:47:27] We got to let the committee do its due diligence. When it's all said and done

[1:47:33] we have another meeting, maybe another second meeting. Hammer it out.

[1:47:38] » Okay, you were next and then Mike.

[1:47:42] » Well, it was I don't know. I was trying to think of this, but just in reference

[1:47:47] to the new fame, um they also have other town buildings like meeting spaces, the

[1:47:57] town hall, Williamsville Hall. Um is there like a

[1:48:02] » grandchild >> the south new school has

[1:48:08] » so for if one so they have more buildings than they do to work with if

[1:48:17] they wanted to change one of the housing they still have all these other

[1:48:21] buildings that are possible to use for residents or towns all.

[1:48:32] » Absolutely. >> I was going to say I I agree with Bruce

[1:48:38] what he said and what he said about everybody else that said stop.

[1:48:43] But I think as far as this committee is concerned, okay, at the end of the day,

[1:48:48] uh whatever what what this group is going to be doing is what kind of what

[1:48:52] you're doing is flagging risks. they are not going to be able to resolve those

[1:48:58] risks, right? It's going to be in the implementation to manage those risk. So

[1:49:02] if we go down a rental path, >> this committee will have benefits and

[1:49:07] risks identified. >> But when we if we elect to go down that

[1:49:11] path >> exactly

[1:49:11] » then who when we implement is when we're going to have to manage those risks

[1:49:16] optimally. They they won't be able to solve them. Just identify them as you

[1:49:21] are partially here. >> Right.

[1:49:23] » Okay. Uh, I'm just worried that November 2nd

[1:49:26] is going to be too soon. >> I know it will soon.

[1:49:30] » In my opinion, I think it would be good to let everybody cook on this. I know

[1:49:35] the money's pouring out the windows, but if it could wait until March,

[1:49:42] » you know, it would give people what if someone did come along so they wanted to

[1:49:46] rent it and you already said, "No, we're going to tear the boat down." solid, but

[1:49:51] it would give people to look around a little bit more and think about it a

[1:49:55] little bit more instead of rushing into, you know, a rock solid decision. I would

[1:50:00] prefer to see it wait until March the town meeting and then you'd have plenty

[1:50:06] of time to draw your ideas and the pros and cons of all the

[1:50:11] options. Maybe you could have a

[1:50:15] » a voting on like what are the preferred options and then let it cook over the

[1:50:21] winter and say okay March [clears throat]

[1:50:24] » trying to decide in March that's just >> okay

[1:50:30] » November's too soon but March is too late in my

[1:50:34] opinion >> you can hold a special election

[1:50:37] » that's correct if you were thinking of Australian ballot

[1:50:42] That's something that could happen prior to town meeting, but later on

[1:50:49] consideration what you're saying. >> Also, if uh over the, you know, over the

[1:50:53] holiday season, if there was anyone that wanted to do a popup rental, have

[1:50:57] workshop in here for something holiday or something,

[1:51:01] » you know, that's just a side. But

[1:51:05] » Le's volunteering for that. Well, actually, I just had a thought uh

[1:51:12] pop into my head. Angel um charge with the team out of Johnston

[1:51:17] because the West Summerson school is similar size to this building and they

[1:51:23] actually they tried I don't know how well it's worked out. Um they use it as

[1:51:27] more of a community center. Um and I don't know if that's been you know how

[1:51:32] that's worked out for the town. It might be worth um another avenue for

[1:51:38] Isn't it? Didn't the library just become the community center? Oh, wait. No,

[1:51:42] that's me. Not >> was

[1:51:46] » it's Yeah, it's in the same building. >> It's in the same building.

[1:51:49] » Okay. >> But the library was able to expand

[1:51:52] through the library used to just be in one room.

[1:51:57] » Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. I haven't been there in a while.

[1:51:59] People rented it a long time ago for, you know, a little event. So,

[1:52:03] » isn't it privately owned? It was when I

[1:52:07] » I I do not >> Bob Johnson.

[1:52:10] » It might be by [clears throat] some sort of nonprofit. I don't know.

[1:52:13] » I don't know. Well, he's he's no longer with us.

[1:52:15] » No, thanks. >> Suggestion.

[1:52:18] [clears throat] >> Just a quick suggestion. I understand

[1:52:22] what you're saying, Pat. And you're right in one respect because we're rigid

[1:52:27] on or there was a thought of being rigid of having it on election day and it was

[1:52:32] already answered that we could have an Australian ballot anytime. I I think we

[1:52:36] should do the September 12th meeting. [clears throat] Pash it out more. See

[1:52:39] where we sit September 12th to September. September 12th. Maybe we

[1:52:44] could have another meeting the first week in October. Let's breathe a little

[1:52:48] bit. Let's get all the ideas out. Let's talk it out and see what And I want to

[1:52:53] make one last point. Everybody said, "Well, oh, I have all my personal

[1:52:57] interests. I have this personal." I wonder what you think what's in the best

[1:53:02] interest for the town of Brookline for a hundred years.

[1:53:07] Go home with that and then we can visit on the 12th, maybe have another meeting

[1:53:13] after that and see what comes out of it. One thing to keep in mind about

[1:53:18] Australian ballot on the day of town meeting, it can't be held in the same

[1:53:22] building. >> That's town meeting which would require

[1:53:26] a town clerk to be down at the office and not ready. That's just it. Because

[1:53:31] we've done that before. You're lying. I had to go down.

[1:53:34] » This is why when Newane votes their officers uh their select men and their

[1:53:39] listers and things, they do it by Australian ballot. But it has to be done

[1:53:43] building separate from where their home that's the law [clears throat]

[1:53:48] » which makes it kind of hard because you can't you can't talk about during the

[1:53:52] town meeting you can't talk about the article that is being voted on in the

[1:53:57] other building. So >> from the select board standpoint you may

[1:54:01] want to separate those two things. >> Well you're you're that and the fact

[1:54:05] that we really don't want to do this in town meeting maybe a separate meeting.

[1:54:11] It's kind of like when we separated the school, but this the school when they

[1:54:15] join joined with the WCSU, we now go have a school uh meeting at in the town

[1:54:22] hall in the town building, you know, town meeting every March. And that's

[1:54:27] save has saved time and our time has gone down from when I first came on the

[1:54:32] board, we were there at 10:00 in the morning and that people meeting I got

[1:54:35] elected. We were done at 33. Yeah. Now it's two and a half hours and Gary's not

[1:54:40] going to let us get past two hours of this turn.

[1:54:46] » Okay, I haven't even looked at the watch, but

[1:54:50] » we've got minutes. >> Go ahead. Everybody who wants to talk

[1:54:55] needs to know. So, >> just trying to listen to everything that

[1:54:58] everybody say and I don't think I have an opinion as far as um what exactly

[1:55:04] should be done, but I have two things. One, I would like to see if we can give

[1:55:09] more parking to the meeting hall if we're going to eventually

[1:55:14] do this to give some of that parking to that so that we can have a and this

[1:55:21] building is ADA so that would be a a selling point if somebody needed to rent

[1:55:27] this or whatever because um I know it doesn't have the sprinklers or whatever

[1:55:32] necessarily. >> It's downstairs.

[1:55:34] I don't see anybody. >> I believe there's downstairs in the

[1:55:37] hall. >> Yeah.

[1:55:39] » Yeah. >> But um

[1:55:42] » the thing is I was trying my point of I'm trying to figure out what to do for

[1:55:48] the future of this town. And as far as younger people, I don't see a lot of

[1:55:54] younger people that are involved in this. And I don't know I I don't know

[1:56:00] the people in the town enough to reach out to them to say, "Hey, this is going

[1:56:05] to be your town. What do you want done with it?" I mean, it's actually it all

[1:56:13] belongs to the future mostly. You know, we're looking at it. We're all older.

[1:56:17] We've all been here and done all our stuff, whatever. Not. But I'm not really

[1:56:22] sure what's the best way. And I think it would be nice if we could reach out to

[1:56:28] our neighbors that are younger and bring it up to them so that um the committee

[1:56:34] so they can get their input. >> That's what I was going to say.

[1:56:40] Um, I just wondered if while we're doing all this analyzing stuff,

[1:56:46] all the different ways, if there's a way to come up with

[1:56:50] uh an average rental price if we were to rent the building. I mean, I I know

[1:56:55] we've tried to come up with sale prices, but I wondered about this size

[1:57:01] commercial building rental per month. What we could get on

[1:57:08] To answer your question, I I have done a little bit of research on that. And uh

[1:57:14] for a onebedroom, no little more than a thousand square

[1:57:17] foot living unit, the average monthly rent ranges from one uh 1,000 to $1,300.

[1:57:25] The twobedroom is,300 to uh $1,800.

[1:57:32] And there's one unit in Brattleboro I came across. I couldn't believe it. It

[1:57:37] is a brand new singlebedroom apartment. They want $1,900 a month for that. Did

[1:57:43] you? >> So, it's, you know, I've I've gone

[1:57:46] online. I've checked a couple of sources and those numbers seem to keep

[1:57:50] reappearing. >> But Mark, did you mean aside from

[1:57:55] housing other? I was thinking as it is right now say

[1:58:01] commercial

[1:58:04] like >> like they said we we got 2400 a month

[1:58:08] for the last sprinters right there. >> Could we get that? Could we get more?

[1:58:12] » Is it going to be less? If we could maybe compare some other this size

[1:58:19] structures somewhere to see what they're getting.

[1:58:26] » David,

[1:58:31] so I was just going to say if more than one business rented this, you'd have to

[1:58:35] put in security so that they could each have their own secure area.

[1:58:41] » Would that be necessary? If you have three different businesses

[1:58:45] renting this as opposed to one business, you'd have to have separate security

[1:58:50] systems, lock entries, and that kind of maybe

[1:58:58] possible the rental is zero. I'm not convinced.

[1:59:01] » I don't know. But, you know, nobody's banging down the door right now

[1:59:06] trying to rent. >> Well, we haven't yet.

[1:59:08] » We haven't looked hard, but there's been some looking. There's been some looking.

[1:59:13] Yeah. >> We don't need much for Harriet.

[1:59:20] » Yeah. I was gonna ask what time is it? >> So,

[1:59:25] » does everyone feel they had a chance to share what they want to share?

[1:59:30] » Can I throw at least one? Yeah,

[1:59:35] » you know, Grace Cottage up there, you got Valley Cares and there's a demand

[1:59:40] for people looking to get senior housing.

[1:59:45] » Another option aging population.

[1:59:58] » What a good deal. That's why we're not seeing any young people here.

[2:00:02] Uh anyway, okay. Everybody had a chance just to see a whole road.

[2:00:08] I uh I would just like to say I think this has been wonderful.

[2:00:13] An opportunity for people to gather together, share ideas, but in a civil

[2:00:19] way, lots of different ideas and opinions. This is what democracy is all

[2:00:24] about. Amen. >> Yeah.

[2:00:27] » To all of us. >> Thank you, David.

[2:00:37] All in favor

[2:00:46] [clears throat]

[2:00:59] Thank you.

[2:01:45] I know.

[2:01:50] Thank you.

Special Public Meeting - Town of Brookline Building Use Workgroup - August 18, 2026

Transcript