[0:02] Yeah.

[0:26] Yeah.

[0:52] Oh.

[0:55] Oh, really? Oh.

[0:59] Oh.

[1:02] Oh. Oh.

[1:04] Oh, you're not going to Oh.

[1:09] Oh.

[1:11] Oh, wow. Oh.

[1:15] Oh. I'm always your

[1:18] I think

[1:21] Yeah. Yeah.

[1:25] Oh.

[1:29] Oh.

[1:39] Oh. All right.

[1:42] Oh.

[1:45] Well, that's Yeah. Yeah.

[1:50] I don't

[1:53] The first Oh.

[1:59] Yeah.

[2:15] » [music]

[2:18] » Good evening supervisors, staff, and guests.

[2:23] Please sign in on your tablets.

[2:37] Everybody signing in?

[2:41] I have nothing on my thing here.

[2:48] You got everybody?

[2:51] Everybody signed in? Okay, they are now. All right.

[2:55] Okay. How many do we have present?

[3:06] We got 14. 14.

[3:09] We have 14 present. We have seven absent.

[3:16] Please join me in the pledge of allegiance.

[3:21] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the

[3:26] republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

[3:32] justice for all. Thank you.

[3:37] I may need a motion to approve the agenda.

[3:46] All right, I have a motion by supervisor Miller and a second by supervisor

[3:50] Elliott. There are no questions on the agenda.

[3:54] Please vote your ballot.

[4:05] All right, we have 14 yes, zero nay, seven absent. All right, moving on. You

[4:10] have the minutes in your packet. Are there any questions on the minutes?

[4:16] If not, I need a motion for that. Supervisor Diedrick and a second by

[4:20] Supervisor McCann. All in

[4:24] um Please vote your ballot.

[4:33] Again, 14 yes, seven absent, so we still have a quorum.

[4:39] All right, any communications? And we have one gentleman in public

[4:44] participation, Mr. Fisher.

[4:58] » Thank you. >> You're welcome. Uh my name is Kevin

[5:00] Fisher. I am actually um have been on the Zoning Board of Adjustment for 16

[5:05] years. But I just want to give a shout-out to

[5:07] two of the people that were on that committee that retired lately,

[5:11] uh Deb Reinhardt and John Cousin. Uh they were both on the committee when

[5:16] I got on there, so they put in a lot more years than I've been on here

[5:20] so far, so but I just wanted to give a shout-out to those people um

[5:24] with all the knowledge that they provided,

[5:27] especially when I first got on there, I didn't know what was going on and they

[5:29] they helped walk you through things. Um

[5:33] Deb, she actually printed up a a whole like little

[5:38] well, it's a whole page full, but she read that every time before the the

[5:43] hearing started, so the people knew exactly how to participate. And when

[5:48] they voted me as chairperson, she actually gave me that and said, "Here,

[5:51] Kevin, I won't need this anymore." So, so I use it I've only used it a couple

[5:54] of times now, but it but it just comes in very handy. So,

[5:58] um and John John just a just a a a wealth of knowledge as well because he

[6:03] lives down by the lake and he's experienced a lot of these variances and

[6:07] stuff. But the best thing about John is he's

[6:09] just got this uh just this uh wit about him that he's

[6:13] just it's just kind of neat to see. So, uh that was all I had. I just wanted to

[6:18] give a shout out to both of those people for their many years of service. So,

[6:21] thank you. >> And thank you, Kevin. Yes, both of them

[6:24] have been here a while. [applause]

[6:29] Okay, in special business, uh Chris Moyer, our director of

[6:33] planning, zoning, and land information will present information about data

[6:37] centers.

[7:30] » Everybody, my name's Chris Moyer, county's planning, zoning, and land

[7:32] information director. So, I was recently asked to give this presentation just on

[7:36] data centers. Um it's been a hot topic in the state for the last couple of

[7:40] years. and that a few of you have also gotten some questions too about them.

[7:43] So, I just want to kind of give you a general overview about that.

[7:46] So, taking a look at our agenda for the today then, um we'll be talking about

[7:50] what a data center is, a little bit of the history of it, um why Wisconsin is

[7:54] the current focus right now for data centers, uh looking at some challenges

[7:59] as well as concerns uh just from a general land use perspective,

[8:02] uh then taking a look at land use and zoning implications, uh as well as uh

[8:06] general zoning jurisdiction and addressing data center questions that

[8:10] you may be receiving from the public as well.

[8:13] So, starting off really, what is a data center? So, a data centers uh they're

[8:17] the physical features uh facilities that organizations and businesses use to

[8:21] store, um process, as well as transmit digital

[8:24] information. Looks like we lost the screen again.

[8:28] Uh so, uh further getting into it, um really

[8:31] it's uh consists of routers, switches, firewalls, um storage systems, servers,

[8:36] and really other networking equipment. Um we see a lot of uh GPUs and CPUs are

[8:41] the main focus on some of the larger type data centers now. They're the main

[8:44] focus for development. Uh data centers have also um really been in use since uh

[8:49] the 1950s. Uh we see that um good example would be

[8:54] um the movie The Imitation Game if you're

[8:56] familiar with that. Um really it was a large mainframe computer that they had

[9:00] created for that particular situation. Um really used to kind of process uh

[9:05] complex math equations uh to try and crack codes. So, little bit of

[9:09] background on data centers. Um from a user perspective, um whenever you send

[9:13] an email, um you open an app on a smartphone,

[9:17] um or you stream a movie, store uh files on the cloud system, or really um use

[9:22] even social media to uh do a post, that information itself is being processed

[9:26] within a data center. Uh so, data centers really they're the core backbone

[9:30] of really the internet and really how that functions.

[9:33] Um within the United States currently, there are roughly 4,200 active data

[9:37] centers Um and there are roughly 47 active data

[9:41] centers in Wisconsin. As of October 25th, an additional 2,700 data centers

[9:45] were being proposed in the United States and there were also an additional 43

[9:49] data centers that are currently either in the planning phase or in production

[9:53] phase in Wisconsin. Taking a look at some of the examples

[9:58] that we have on the screen here, we see

[10:01] the 1970s and 1980s depiction. That would be an example of what's an

[10:05] enterprise level data system. This is something where you typically

[10:10] have it's either within a room or small building. It's like a data closet from

[10:14] that perspective. They really grew when you had companies

[10:18] like IBM that were able to develop business grade servers.

[10:22] These enterprise facilities are typically owned or operated by a single

[10:25] company and they use it for their internal services.

[10:28] This type of data center is still being used today. A good example of it locally

[10:33] here would be within the courthouse as well. We have an active data center.

[10:36] It's a large data closet. We've got smaller data closets that are also

[10:39] located throughout the courthouse as well. All of them would really be

[10:42] considered to be data centers. From our department's perspective as

[10:46] well, within the land information side of things, we have our own GIS servers,

[10:50] too. So, we would function really the same way

[10:54] as a just a mini data center. Taking a look at our next examples on

[10:58] there, we've got some co-location facilities. Those really became

[11:01] prominent around the 1990s, early 2000s. So, they really started to see when

[11:06] business and organizations really shifted from hosting services on site to

[11:09] more offsite type locations that are owned by a third party third party

[11:13] companies to operate these facilities. Really, as the name suggests, these are

[11:19] really third party companies that have multiple businesses they're storing

[11:22] their information and data within this singular location. And they really

[11:25] became possible with the expansion of the internet and faster download and

[11:29] upload speeds, part of the dot-com era. So, why would companies really decide to

[11:34] use facilities such as this instead of hosting their own data? Uh, when we take

[11:38] a look at the pros on their side of things, really it's the lower initial

[11:41] cost. They don't have to pay for servers, they don't have to buy all the

[11:43] equipment. They don't necessarily need to have the staffing as well to be able

[11:47] to function. Um, it's easier to scale these type of facilities, too.

[11:51] Um, the infrastructure really is managed by that third-party company, so you

[11:55] don't have that, um, expense. Uh, there's built-in redundancy. There's

[11:59] less cost to operate in general, and there um, better protection against

[12:02] severe weather situations, um, or power outages from that

[12:06] perspective, as well. Looking at some of the cons, though,

[12:09] there's really less control over the system itself and how it functions. Uh,

[12:13] they're typically more subscription-based systems right now is

[12:16] what we're seeing, um, which can be more expensive really in the long run.

[12:20] Um, there's also a dependency upon having an internet connection, so

[12:22] obviously your internet goes down, you lose access then to your potential files

[12:26] at that point. And it can also be more difficult to migrate platforms once you

[12:29] already have selected a vendor. Um, from that perspective, as their back-end

[12:33] systems don't always work together. Uh, when we look at the third example we

[12:37] have on the screen here, this is more of a hyperscale facility.

[12:40] Um, this is what we're seeing more so from the 2010s on to present. These are

[12:44] large-scale systems that are being designed more as a campus style, really

[12:48] with very large interconnected buildings taking up hundreds of acres.

[12:52] Uh, several recent proposals in Wisconsin have been for this campus

[12:55] style facility. Uh, they range from a few hundred acres to, uh, there's one

[12:59] that's over 1,000 acres in size. Uh, these facilities are often owned by

[13:03] the larger businesses. Uh, think of your Amazons, Microsoft, Google. Uh, and

[13:07] they're needed to handle more cloud computing, AI, and just global internet

[13:11] functions, as well.

[13:15] So, why are we seeing more development in Wisconsin now? So, taking a look at

[13:18] Wisconsin Act 2023, uh, excuse me, Wisconsin 2023 Act 19, which was the,

[13:24] uh, biennial budget bill, really created a data center sales and use tax

[13:28] exemption program for qualified facilities, really based on their total

[13:32] investment as well as the county's population.

[13:35] Uh so, um with this type of development for

[13:39] County of Kenosha example here, because we've got just over 50,000 population,

[13:43] we'd be in the 50,000 to 100,000 category. So, a facility they would need

[13:47] to really invest over $100 million to qualify for this potential tax exemption

[13:52] in Wisconsin. And these incentives have really helped drive the more recent wave

[13:57] of development in data centers that we've seen the last couple of years

[14:01] here. Uh the second reason why we're seeing

[14:04] more development is just the decreasing electric and municipal water demand

[14:08] across the state for the last two decades. So, Wisconsin, we have an

[14:11] abundance of fresh water compared to other states, making it enticing for

[14:14] developers to want to come here. Um decreasing usage rates and efficiency

[14:19] improvements in both water and electric utilities have also

[14:22] created additional capacity for utilities to take on higher demand uses.

[14:27] Uh the argument being made is that since development has been Excuse me, since

[14:31] demand has been decreasing, utilities have needed to increase the cost for the

[14:35] average consumers to be able to keep up with infrastructure maintenance. Uh so,

[14:39] they also argue that because they're less able to perform facility upgrades,

[14:44] then because they have a decrease in revenue,

[14:47] it's really leading to an aging infrastructure and a larger issue in

[14:50] general. Uh with this type of development though,

[14:54] comes the need for significant utility improvements above and beyond what

[14:57] typical use cases that we see. For example, the Port Washington data center

[15:01] needed the American Transmission Company to revamp their existing transmission

[15:05] lines to force junction to the tune of about $1.2 billion to be able to meet

[15:09] their proposed energy demands, which is what we're seeing running through the

[15:12] county.

[15:15] Uh other issues that we see as well that's bringing it to Wisconsin is just

[15:19] lower land and operating costs compared to other states.

[15:22] Uh Wisconsin's in the bottom third in the United States in terms of average

[15:25] price per acre for land. Uh cooler temperatures as well for half of the

[15:29] year can also improve cooling efficiency and reduce just the general operating

[15:32] costs for some of these facilities compared to warmer climates.

[15:37] Uh then taking a look at just our last point in here, proximity to major metro

[15:41] area. So, data centers are often cited near major metro areas to reduce

[15:45] latency. Um that's the delay between a user request and then a server response.

[15:50] So, the further away that a data center is um to the end user, the longer that

[15:54] the delay is. So, they try to build them closer as well as spread them out into

[15:59] other areas throughout the country to be able to help reduce that latency that

[16:02] they're seeing. It also uh provides some additional redundancy. So, if you've got

[16:06] large natural disasters or other events that occur, a single facility going down

[16:11] isn't going to shut down the entire network essentially.

[16:14] They also do that too to try and help spread out water demand as well as just

[16:17] electric demand across the grid.

[16:24] Uh looking at concerns and challenges. So, the primary one that we've been

[16:27] hearing um within the last year or so really is just high electric demand and

[16:31] increased utility rates. Uh I'd say it's probably the number one concern that

[16:35] we've been seeing. Um at the state level, uh there were a couple of bills

[16:39] that were also proposed in January to try and address some of these issues. Uh

[16:43] they were primarily focused on utility rates, water usage, and just cooling

[16:47] methods in general for these types of facilities, but both of those bills

[16:50] failed and they did not progress at the state level.

[16:54] Uh even though the Public Service Commission does not directly regulate

[16:57] data centers, that's handled at the local level, uh they do still have

[17:00] control and authority to regulate utility rates.

[17:04] Uh in April of this year, the PSC did approve a modified uh We Energies large

[17:08] load tariff, which was intended to ensure that very large data centers,

[17:12] including projects like the Port Washington data center, pay their own

[17:15] utility related costs rather than shifting them onto the end consumers. Uh

[17:20] similar action was also taken in May for an Alliant Energy project and it shows

[17:24] that the PSC uh has a broader expectation that data centers and these

[17:28] types of facilities are going to be bearing their own costs when it comes to

[17:32] um utility related costs and projects really going forward. Um it's part of

[17:36] these actions that they did though, it's not an all-encompassing action. Um for

[17:39] the We Energies one, it did directly impact their large load tariff, which

[17:43] does impact all projects that they have going forward. Um but for other ones it

[17:47] did not impact that, so it's really viewed on a case-by-case basis for how

[17:51] these are addressed going forward. But at least it's it's positive news coming

[17:54] from the PSC that they're willing to to listen to constituents and see the

[17:58] issues at hand.

[18:02] Uh taking a look at our next issue, which is more water usage and cooling.

[18:05] So water usage is often considered one of the uh more highly debated and

[18:09] concerning topics surrounding data centers. Part of that's due to the

[18:12] wide-ranging reports that we see in water usage for the facilities. Uh each

[18:16] data center operates different based on how they're being utilized by their

[18:19] parent company and how they're being cooled. Data centers that primarily

[18:23] focus on data storage and cloud services compared to like AI services, uh they're

[18:27] typically using significantly less um water from that perspective because they

[18:32] don't need it. They're not generating as much heat as what an AI data center um

[18:36] would be generating. The Environmental and Energy Study

[18:39] Institute published an article in June of last year, which is taking a look at

[18:42] data center water usage. They found that a medium-sized data center similar to a

[18:47] colocation facility of 10 megawatts can consume roughly 110 million gallons of

[18:52] water annually, which is equivalent to annual water usage approximately 1,000

[18:56] households. A large data center such as a hyperscale

[18:59] facility can consume roughly 5 million gallons of water per day or about 1.8

[19:04] billion gallons of water annually, which is equivalent to a municipality of

[19:08] 30,000 people. So all of these uh factors are really

[19:11] are dependent upon the size in megawatts of that particular data center and also

[19:16] the type of cooling methods that they're using. Uh the Port Washington facility,

[19:20] for example, will be roughly 900 megawatts in size, which is a very large

[19:24] data center. Um it is 672-acre facility.

[19:29] Uh the developers plan to use a closed-loop cooling system that will

[19:32] have a peak daily water usage of approximately 22,000 gallons of water,

[19:36] which is significantly less than the other examples that we were talking

[19:38] about. Um this is lower primarily due to it

[19:42] being that closed-loop style system, but the trade-off that you deal with the

[19:46] closed-loop system is then your energy needs are significantly higher.

[19:50] Uh that's why we see in some situations, um especially earlier on, they were

[19:54] developing more um direct water um water-applied or

[19:58] water-evaporation style systems because the water was cheap. Uh so, they would

[20:03] try to go with the cheapest electric style option that they had. They would

[20:07] use millions of gallons of water. Uh the water would just evaporate, um but their

[20:11] energy demands were significantly less. Um because of public concerns and issues

[20:16] that we've been seeing over the last couple of years, a lot of them are

[20:19] trying to make that shift now towards the closed-loop systems instead uh to

[20:23] try to address that. Uh part of the issues that we were also

[20:26] seeing with that was water discharge, um which is also just a general concern.

[20:31] Those older systems using the evaporation cooling towers, uh water

[20:35] consumption was quite high in addition to that discharge rate. Uh the rate um

[20:39] typically had higher concentrated minerals in it. They also had other

[20:42] chemicals in it that were just a part of the maintenance process in general for

[20:46] these facilities, um which are also obviously a fairly

[20:49] significant environmental concern if it's being discharged to a local

[20:52] waterway. Uh the more advanced uh more recent

[20:55] systems like the closed-loop system at Port Washington eliminates that

[20:58] particular issue. Uh so, it's really important when you start talking data

[21:01] centers to focus on the type of cooling methods that are being proposed for each

[21:06] particular facility um just to be able to determine what

[21:09] potential water impacts that it has.

[21:13] One of the other main concerns is always noise. Um noise is uh more of a concern

[21:18] with these facilities because they have constant cooling, large backup power

[21:21] sources in the event of an emergency. Uh so data centers um typically contain

[21:26] HVAC systems, uh chillers, cooling towers, pumps, and just numerous

[21:30] industrial fans. Um combined, these sources produce just a constant

[21:34] background noise that um can impact adjacent properties.

[21:38] Taking a look at just general background decibels in a rural uh residential area

[21:42] at night is typically around 20 to 30 decibels, uh while urban neighborhoods

[21:47] are usually around 35 to 40 decibels. Uh just for a point of reference, uh

[21:51] normal conversation back and forth with someone would be around 55 to 60

[21:55] decibels. Uh so data centers, they typically aim

[21:58] for around 45 decibels. Um that's usually compatible with most municipal

[22:02] noise ordinance standards. Uh you can also do conditional use

[22:05] standards to potentially try to lower that uh to match surrounding

[22:09] neighborhood um noise levels as well. Backup generators are typically one of

[22:14] the um mostly conditioned noise standards with data centers. Generators

[22:19] often exceed 100 decibels um in noise, so conditions are placed

[22:23] upon them for when, how often, and um how long they can be tested for.

[22:28] Obviously, emergency situations, they would have to be running, um but they

[22:31] can potentially try to mitigate issues by putting them in locations that are

[22:35] not going to have as much of an impact on potential um neighboring property

[22:38] owners as well. Uh just because of the noise concerns

[22:42] alone, um it's one of the main factors on why data centers are usually viewed

[22:46] as more of an industrial-style use.

[22:50] Taking a look at our fourth point here, uh which would be land space issues. So

[22:53] hyperscale projects can vary greatly in size, like we already mentioned. Uh Port

[22:58] Washington project, roughly 670 acres. The uh Beaver Dam project is uh just

[23:03] over 500 acres. And uh with after several expansions, the Mount Pleasant

[23:07] campus is over 1,300 acres in size. Developers are often looking for green

[23:12] space to be able to develop these cities, which typically includes

[23:15] existing agricultural lands. Uh farmland in general is obviously

[23:18] available commodity, um but more so in agricultural

[23:22] communities. Um so this results in increased costs of remaining

[23:25] agricultural land, loss of productive farmland, and the fragmentation of

[23:29] existing farmland as well. Some municipalities are starting to push

[23:33] for a minimum floor area ratios to help reduce uh density sprawl on these data

[23:37] center sites, which can then encourage them to try to build more vertically

[23:41] instead of just sprawling out across the landscape.

[23:44] Uh the last one I wanted to bring up then was uh vehicle traffic and road

[23:48] wear concerns. Uh these are often concerns with data

[23:51] center projects during the initial construction phase of the project

[23:53] itself. Facilities um taking up hundreds of

[23:57] acres, uh you're talking thousands of loads of gravel, rock, and just

[24:01] concrete, and materials in general being brought to the site um to for

[24:06] development. Obviously, this causes significant wear and tear on existing

[24:09] roads. Um can be seen with the Port Washington

[24:12] project as material was brought in from dozens of quarries across the state,

[24:15] some of as far north as uh ones located in the town of Charlestown even,

[24:20] to be able to meet their demands. So, these activities can significantly

[24:23] reduce just their overall life expectancy of regional roads, um as well

[24:27] as roads adjacent to the project in conditions that are often put in place

[24:30] on them to try to address road damage and offset the cost to be able to repair

[24:35] them.

[24:38] Uh taking a look at land use and zoning implications.

[24:42] So, due to the intensity of the use, most municipalities usually view data

[24:46] centers as an industrial use. Some municipalities have also gone the route

[24:50] of uh creating specific zoning districts for them uh to allow data centers.

[24:55] Municipalities have decided to go this route due to the changes that were made

[24:58] um with a conditional use permit process as part of the 2017 Act 67. Act 67

[25:04] limited the power of local governments to

[25:07] buy limited local governments by requiring

[25:10] decisions to be based on substantial evidence. So, if an applicant is able to

[25:14] meet all the particular standards and requirements that are labeled within the

[25:17] ordinance and that the committee places upon it, the committee is then required

[25:21] to grant that particular CUP. There's no discretion that's within that they have

[25:25] to approve it. Map amendments or re-zones for

[25:28] municipalities a little bit more discretion. If a proposed re-zone does

[25:32] not match the comprehensive plan or is not consistent with surrounding land

[25:35] uses, it's easier for a municipality to be able to deny that re-zone

[25:39] compared to a conditional use permit, which is why they're creating these

[25:42] additional zoning districts to put them in a separate category.

[25:47] Most of the land under county zoning is designated as agricultural as well as

[25:51] being located within farmland preservation certified districts. Within

[25:54] those districts, the particular use for data centers is not actually a permitted

[25:58] use. The Department of Agricultural Trade and

[26:01] Consumer Protection provided this interpretation in one of the last

[26:04] conferences that we went to. They wanted to make that specific

[26:07] distinction that these are not utility grade facilities. These are a separate,

[26:10] usually a private entity that's coming in. So, we have more discretion over

[26:14] what can be permitted and what cannot be permitted with these uses, whereas

[26:18] utility facilities would end up going to the Public Service Commission for

[26:20] approval and we have very limited control at the local level.

[26:26] Now, looking at other potential land use concerns, so while county said while the

[26:31] county has several transmission lines and substations, the majority of our

[26:35] regional water usage is sourced from local ground water.

[26:39] Another way to be able to restrict the location of data centers would be to

[26:43] require these facilities to be located on municipal water and sewer services.

[26:48] The majority of our towns, with the exception of the Forest Junction area,

[26:51] do not have a communal water supply uh requiring that such a facility be on

[26:55] sewer and water would help reduce the potential impact and groundwater

[26:58] drawdown on neighboring properties. And we're seeing that in some situations of

[27:02] municipalities requiring that. A lot of situations we see as well is that these

[27:07] developments, they may be occurring on fringe locations within townships, but

[27:11] they're being annexed by cities and villages. So, in most cases, it's

[27:15] occurring within cities and villages because they have the services um for

[27:18] these particular facilities to function. And then the last point on here is just

[27:23] the the county's uh current general zoning ordinance has standards really in

[27:27] place to be able to address data centers.

[27:29] Uh signing a new data center would likely

[27:31] result in the conversion of several hundred acres of farmlands, and based on

[27:34] our current comprehensive plan, it's really unlikely to meet the

[27:37] justifications uh needed to convert such a large tract of land for this type of

[27:41] use. Uh this request would also likely not be

[27:44] approved by any of the townships under county zoning uh for failing to meet

[27:48] consistency requirements between zoning ordinance as well as the comprehensive

[27:51] plan. So, if a data center were to be approved

[27:54] uh through the rezoning process in our jurisdiction, the use is still not

[27:57] listed as an approved use in our zoning ordinance.

[28:00] The county zoning ordinance is a permissive-based ordinance, uh which

[28:04] means that unless the use is specifically listed in the ordinance for

[28:07] that district, the use itself is not approved at all. It's not permitted.

[28:11] Uh there's potential option in this situation where they could go with a use

[28:15] not listed um section that we have, uh but these are viewed on a case-by-case

[28:19] basis. They need to meet use-based consistency requirements to be even

[28:23] considered. Um based on our current language, I feel like we're in a good

[28:26] position to be able to address data centers.

[28:30] Uh looking at general zoning by jurisdiction, a little bit of what we

[28:34] talked about, just the general zoning ordinance um at the county level,

[28:38] uh the standards that I mentioned would be in place within the towns of

[28:41] Brillion, Charlestown, New Holstein, and Woodville. And all the text is a little

[28:44] bit small on the map there, but those would be the communities that are in

[28:47] green. The uh communities that are in yellow,

[28:50] those would be ones that administer their own general zoning requirements

[28:53] and are not under the county's general purview or jurisdiction, either.

[28:57] So, for townships that are not in county zoning, the question will be based

[29:01] really on the current zoning ordinances and their comprehensive plan.

[29:04] So, all most of them did participate with the county in our comprehensive

[29:07] plan update. We did identify some areas as transitional in the comprehensive

[29:11] plan, which could include industrial industrial development. Potentially,

[29:15] most of those areas are not large enough to support a hyperscale data center or

[29:19] would conflict with the surrounding land uses and zoning districts in that area.

[29:23] The town of Sack Bridge is the only municipality that does not have zoning

[29:26] in the county, so there's little that could be done from a regulatory

[29:29] perspective to be able to regulate a facility such as this.

[29:33] I know that moratoria were, you know, another discussion point that has come

[29:37] up recently, too. Enacting moratoria has been one of the

[29:39] main ways that municipalities in the state have tried to put a temporary

[29:42] pause on data center development. It's a practice that can use to delay the

[29:46] process, so municipalities have time to come up with zoning standards for a set

[29:51] period of time, but based on our current standards, like I said, I feel like

[29:54] we're in a fairly good position and don't need to enact a moratorium at this

[29:58] time. Also, a moratorium enacted at the county

[30:02] level would only be applicable in the municipalities where we currently have

[30:05] zoning jurisdiction. So, like I said, the four municipalities on there is the

[30:09] only place where it would be even applicable. All the other

[30:12] municipalities, the cities, villages, towns of Brothertown, Chilton, and

[30:16] Rantoul, if we do a moratorium, it would not be applicable in those locations as

[30:20] we do not have jurisdiction there. So, each municipality, they would have

[30:24] to come up with their own moratorium language if that's the direction that

[30:27] they want to go to be able to enforce that.

[30:33] And then our last points here is just addressing data center questions in

[30:35] general. So, a couple of key points just to focus on is don't over promise

[30:39] county authority on projects just when talking with constituents. Uh like we

[30:43] said, the county only has general zoning in four of our eight townships. So, our

[30:47] authority is really limited from that perspective. We can't enact a a sweeping

[30:51] ordinance to be able to limit something like this or to approve something like

[30:54] this uh just because we don't have the authority to do that in those areas.

[30:58] Another key point is just commitment to process transparency.

[31:02] Uh so, if a project is in an area under county uh jurisdiction, we have specific

[31:06] processes that are outlined in ordinance to be able to be transparent as well as

[31:10] prior public hearings for the public to engage and interact with the process

[31:13] itself. If someone does have a particular

[31:15] question in mind, um they're more than welcome to contact the department. You

[31:19] know, we're more than happy to answer any potential questions that people

[31:22] have, address any concerns that they have. One of our main focuses is just to

[31:26] help educate the public so that they're, you know, more understanding of um what

[31:29] our uh requirements, what our ordinance language says, and all that, just um be

[31:34] more transparent with the public in general.

[31:36] And uh just a general statement, too, that we have on here is uh just because

[31:39] the the county is a mixture of county zone areas and municipalities that have

[31:42] their own authority, uh there's not one single answer that um for every proposed

[31:47] site. Uh residents really deserve a clearer um explanation of which body

[31:51] would review a specific land use issue, uh what other permits would be required,

[31:55] and where the public can participate in that particular process. So, residents

[31:59] are really urged to uh directly contact their local municipalities if they have

[32:03] any questions about a particular project or really what that review process looks

[32:07] like because it's really it's on a case-by-case basis, and it may be a

[32:10] different municipality what they think of would actually regulate it.

[32:16] » Are there any questions with this?

[32:21] Please um press your [clears throat] request to

[32:23] speak.

[32:27] Ryan, Supervisor Cole.

[32:31] You had a question. >> No.

[32:33] » No.

[32:35] Us. >> Machesky, Supervisor.

[32:37] » Supervisor Machesky. >> I just wanted to clarify. So, we

[32:41] currently have one in our county. >> So, we have the one that is actually

[32:46] here in the courthouse. There's also one that is in Harrison that is more of a I

[32:50] wouldn't say quite a co-location style, but it's a larger facility.

[32:54] Those are the only ones that I'm aware of. You know, obviously most businesses

[32:57] have some form of that, but it's their own personal use. The only active larger

[33:02] one would be the one in Harrison. >> Okay. And that one, based on your

[33:05] presentation, would have been approved by the village of Harrison and the

[33:08] county wouldn't have had any say in that.

[33:10] » Correct. Yep. >> Do you have any specs on like kind of

[33:13] what they use at that facility? >> We weren't involved in any of that

[33:16] process, so we're not really privy to any of the information that they had. It

[33:20] would be whatever they have publicly available. Like I said, we we just

[33:23] weren't involved in that one. >> Thanks for the presentation. I really

[33:26] enjoyed learning about it. >> Yep.

[33:30] » Supervisor Williams. >> Matt.

[33:33] Yeah, thanks for that. I appreciate the detail. Um, do you have a quantifiable

[33:37] sense of scale for the current existing active data centers throughout the state

[33:41] and how that compares to some of the the hyperscale projects that are being

[33:43] proposed? I assume we don't have anything hyper yet in the state.

[33:47] » We do. Yeah, we actually have several online. Yep, there's the Port Washington

[33:51] one, which that's the 560-ish acre size one.

[33:55] There's also the Mount Horeb, Mount Pleasant

[33:59] Madison area. That one is 1,300 acres in size. So, that's a I think that one is

[34:04] over 2,000 megawatt capacity, which is extremely large facility that we would

[34:09] typically see. The next largest one is that Port

[34:12] Washington one, which is less than half that size in capacity. [clears throat]

[34:16] And that's still considered to be a hyperscale facility. The image that I

[34:19] had up a bring that up here for you guys. This is

[34:22] actually a rendering of what the Port Washington facility looks like. It's a

[34:27] four different core areas, different buildings. That's more that campus

[34:31] style. That's that hyperscale facility. >> Do you know other than the hyperscale

[34:36] what the kind of megawattage is throughout the rest of the state? I

[34:39] mean, is that one in Mount Horeb twice the size of everything else? You know, I

[34:42] know that hyperscales are really on another level. Is it something along

[34:45] those lines? >> I would say that facility itself

[34:48] probably makes up 2/3, if not 3/4 of the overall capacity, just in data centers

[34:53] in Wisconsin in general. Um, just because like I said, the next largest

[34:56] one is not even half that size in capacity. And those are really some of

[35:00] the major ones. Uh, the Beaver Dam project, I believe is even half the size

[35:04] of the Port Washington one as well. Um, so they're starting to make that

[35:08] shift towards some of these larger ones um, in our area. Um, it just hasn't been

[35:12] as common here. I know West Virginia, Virginia area, um, they're more

[35:16] considered to be kind of like the the main hub for data center developments

[35:21] um, out there. So, they've got significantly more development going on

[35:24] over there. >> Supervisor Miller.

[35:27] » My my connector's not working. So, thank you, Madam Chairman.

[35:31] Yeah, I have some questions. Um, being from the older group, uh, the

[35:35] DNR back in the '70s and '80s was all concerned about

[35:39] digging too close to navigable streams. You take about the Hayden swamp, they

[35:43] did everything to keep the farmers from plowing too close and navigable streams.

[35:48] I even had one. They tried to make mine a navigable stream, which is a mud hole.

[35:52] It was a pasture land that I bought with a home at and it's not. So, I dug a pond

[35:56] in '02. But, from the '70s to '02, things really changed. Why did the DNR

[36:02] not go to sleep and let these people take navigable streams down at Beaver

[36:05] Dam and Port Washington? People that lived there that have been living there

[36:08] 40, 50 years, they closed off navigable streams and they're building on it.

[36:13] Other concerns, I've been to some of these demonstrations and these

[36:15] information meetings. Other concerns are why aren't they building the buildings

[36:18] higher to take less land? Same thing it should have been with high schools ever

[36:21] since the '80s. You got fat kids running around school, but they don't even have

[36:25] to go up and down stairs. Okay? You could put in elevators, okay?

[36:29] All right, the other concerns are you need to let people know. Town of

[36:32] Greenleaf kicked them out a year and a half ago. Kewaunee kicked them out a

[36:35] year ago. Because I've been kind of busy with my wife's funeral stuff, I don't

[36:39] know what Wrightstown is doing, but there was pretty good opposition there

[36:41] and I'm and I sent them some documents of people up there.

[36:45] And the other thing is is Canada going nuts with this too or not? Do you know?

[36:50] » I haven't heard anything. Just something like that on the Canadian side of it.

[36:53] » it in Africa or South America or Australia. Why here?

[36:59] Somebody is making a mint out of this. The last part is

[37:02] I have some farmer friends that own acres in Brown County.

[37:06] Three or four years ago they weren't saying they were buying the land for

[37:08] data centers, but they came around and two both these farmers said, "When you

[37:12] connect everybody around here, all the farmers including in my 360 and my 180,

[37:18] then I'll come and consider selling to." They never got more than two land owners

[37:22] out of probably about 22 or 24 to compare. So they washed. They never said

[37:26] it was about data centers, but the deception was there, okay? So we need to

[37:30] stop it. Uh back in my the planning and zoning last year, I threw tried to get a

[37:35] proclamation through that we keep them out of Calumet County. Pretty interested

[37:39] in good old Samaria. People that come from Chicago, they love it up here going

[37:43] north. You know what I mean? You're rubbing that all out and you're letting

[37:45] them build these data centers. So I say stand up. Opposition. Veterans are all

[37:50] against this all across the country and they could care less about a lot of

[37:53] veterans. 440,000 in California alone choose to be homeless. They don't want

[37:57] nothing to do with the government. Thank you for hearing me, Madam Chair.

[38:03] » Um I have a question. Um I've read many studies about the

[38:08] shortage of water >> Yep.

[38:10] » as it comes into the future. Um are these data centers recycling

[38:16] their own water or where are they going to get all the water that's demanded for

[38:21] their operation? Do you know that? >> Yeah, so a lot of them are going more

[38:24] towards that closed-loop style system. Uh which that closed-loop system is

[38:29] using significantly less water than what some of the older ones were where I said

[38:32] some of the older larger ones were using, you know, millions of gallons a

[38:36] day. Um the Port Washington project itself is using roughly 22,000 gallons

[38:41] and they say that's not even part of their cooling. That's just part of their

[38:43] general operations because they have almost 400 employees a part of it.

[38:47] They're saying that uh they're not adding anything directly um from a

[38:51] cooling perspective water input to that for the Port Washington project.

[38:56] » I know there's a lot of concern there about water usage and I certainly would

[39:01] be concerned because in any dry areas, even in our area, water is

[39:07] really scarce. >> Yep, and that's why they've started to

[39:09] make that um shift more towards that. But like I said, you you'd end up

[39:13] dealing with those trade-offs then because now you're using more energy

[39:16] because it's that closed-loop system compared to using more water. Um just

[39:20] with the methods that they use now. >> Okay, thank you, Chris. Any other

[39:24] questions? >> Just ma'am.

[39:25] » Oh. So okay.

[39:26] » Okay, thank you, Madam Chairman. More information. I've been on sites in Texas

[39:30] where they're laying the pipe. I know people that are responsible for laying

[39:34] so much length of pipe, so many sizes of pipe. They have certain number of wires

[39:38] that have to go in and I asked them, "How do you get the wire to go through

[39:41] when you got these 200 ft of pipe?" They say you take Walmart bags and a

[39:44] compressor, you tie a string to the Walmart bag, suck it through, and then

[39:48] they tie the wire on it and run it through with a rope. That's how they're

[39:51] building them. 900 acre site I was on last summer about this time of the year.

[39:55] I got pictures. They go down 8-10 ft. They level everything where they connect

[39:59] the pipes through and then they come along and everything's there. They throw

[40:02] some rock on it and then they cement 4 ft high by 6 ft wide these ditches

[40:07] and then they put a back cover on it. But all that water that is run through

[40:10] there to do that, that's why I'm saying they're closing up navigable streams.

[40:14] And guess what? Texas has no lakes. There's no lakes in Texas. If you play

[40:18] play a little bit of trivia, you'll find out all real fast.

[40:22] There's no lakes in Texas. All they got is the ocean. So, that is really a

[40:26] problem there. And we've been dry around here, haven't we? The little blessing we

[40:29] got this morning, I was biking at 3:30 this morning. Thank you. Thank you. I

[40:32] think my wife sent it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Supervisor Miller. Any other

[40:37] questions? All right. Supervisor Supervisor Macheski.

[40:43] » Yes, sorry. Just to follow up on your point. Um is that accurate from your

[40:47] understanding that there were changes where

[40:51] I don't want I don't want to use your terms there that streams are being

[40:54] I guess allowed to be converted that weren't in the past.

[40:57] » That's more on the the DNR side of regulation.

[41:01] There's been some I would say significant changes just in the DNR just

[41:05] over the last decade or so. More so from conservation to

[41:09] development. So, it could be something that they're

[41:12] doing, but again, that's all in the DNR's purview. I haven't seen it

[41:15] directly myself, but I've heard similar things that Joe has been mentioning as

[41:18] well. >> And then I guess as a I don't know if

[41:20] this is kind of in your area or not. Obviously, we've talked about that the

[41:25] public can get together and say we don't want this in our community. I'm sure

[41:29] that the companies would say that there's a lot of benefits to having

[41:32] these and we need these to further technology and everything else. If you

[41:36] have somebody who is maybe against having this in their community or is

[41:40] worried about the the scale, is there anything that you would recommend the

[41:44] average person do to take I guess personal action or is it something

[41:48] that's such a global scale? Like for example, right? Like I can drive an

[41:52] electric car, but if a billionaire is taking their jet every single day, what

[41:56] kind of personal impact am I making? Would you say it's something on that

[41:59] scale or are there actionable things everyday people can do?

[42:03] » Yeah, I would say it's so integrated within our current system now just

[42:06] because really it's the backbone of how the internet itself functions. So,

[42:10] I I you need data centers to that you know, certain extent, but it's been more

[42:14] of the development recently just with AI tools and everything else that is why

[42:18] we've been seeing this more major shift. Um so, that's that's part of it. Um you

[42:23] know, use of AI obviously then spurs additional buildings being constructed,

[42:28] additional data centers. Um you know, so that's something, you know, if you're

[42:31] not interested in using AI or you don't want to use it, um you know, that's a

[42:35] particular approach that individuals could take um from that perspective. Um

[42:39] like I said, I don't know if there's really a, you know, a large, you know,

[42:43] one thing that could particularly be done um for use cases like this.

[42:47] » Thank you. And then just one last clarification. So, if they're using less

[42:50] water and using more energy, I would assume that's a non-renewable source of

[42:54] energy then that they're pulling >> So, we've been seeing a couple different

[42:57] examples. Um I don't know that the one of the nuclear power facilities that um

[43:03] Jonas Salk on Michigan that they had shut down.

[43:06] Yeah, they were talking about starting that one back up again and with that

[43:10] one, they would actually put a data center on the front end um before the

[43:13] energy actually gets put out to the grid. So, it actually would power the

[43:16] data center first and then the energy would go out to the grid because it

[43:19] would be using so much energy. There's been a few other cases, one in Iowa, I

[43:23] believe it was a Google facility there that they were also planning to start up

[43:27] a nuclear facility, too, to be able to power a data center.

[43:30] So, they're taking a couple different approaches um to be able to do it.

[43:34] » Supervisor McCann. >> Uh thank you, Madam Chair. I I'm just

[43:38] curious, Chris, is there a a design or a size or a

[43:44] uh type of data center that you could see

[43:47] being appropriate for Calumet County? I mean, I you talked a lot about the huge

[43:52] data centers and other things. Is there a

[43:54] a business that could move to uh Calumet County that would attach

[43:59] itself to a data center that we would find,

[44:02] you know, fitting in with the landscape and with the general

[44:06] population? >> Yeah, I mean, more like the typical

[44:09] co-location size that we see that is more around the you know the 10 to maybe

[44:13] 100 MW capacity where maybe we're talking under 100,000 square feet for

[44:18] some of these facilities. Even like the Harrison example, too, you

[44:22] know, how many people actually knew that that was a data center that was there?

[44:25] You know, not many people really know that.

[44:27] So, more of the that particular size probably fits more for our landscape and

[44:31] makes more sense with some of the models that they're trying to do, too, where

[44:34] they're promoting to have more facilities so that you have more

[44:37] redundancy. You've got more protections from, you know, natural disaster events.

[44:41] You know, that may be something that is more palatable, I think, just to the

[44:44] general public, even not just County Macoupin, but just Wisconsin in general.

[44:48] » Yeah, I I and I think that's one of my concerns is that you create a

[44:53] kind of a boogeyman nature to these things that that may or may not be

[44:57] appropriate for what we need in our county to develop.

[45:01] » Yep.

[45:03] » Okay, thank you. Well, all right, one more time, Mr.

[45:08] Miller. >> Chairman,

[45:10] addressing the water issue, I picked up articles from down as far as

[45:14] Dodgeville papers and stuff. When they when they clean up these areas, they

[45:18] clean up the navigable streams, be glad that the water will come back with the

[45:21] tungsten, the zinc, the lead, and graphite that comes back, it will kill

[45:25] the sheep, it will kill the horses. They're all it's all ground fine. It it

[45:29] can't blow in the wind cuz it's tough to attach to ground, okay? So, where do the

[45:33] poisons go? Air, the water, or the ground, okay?

[45:37] The Amish have a very strong upfront on this. You won't see them in Ohio or

[45:40] Pennsylvania, even in parts over like Wittenberg. The the Amish are on top of

[45:44] this. You're not coming here. And they're getting some respect, and

[45:47] they're they're they're letting people know. So, if we continue to drag our

[45:51] feet and don't do something, as I advocated 4 months ago, ban them from

[45:55] here, they'll fold up and go away, but their top dogs will always change

[45:59] wherever from where China or Korea, or they're from, they'll always change and

[46:03] they'll come attract you because it's they're the ones that are making the

[46:06] money and they're ruining our local landscapes. Enough is enough is enough.

[46:10] Thank you. >> Okay. Uh supervisor

[46:14] » Yeah, just one more. Uh so if they're moving towards uh more closed loop

[46:18] systems instead of the evaporative cooling,

[46:20] the evaporative cooling leads to that going to the air because of the phase

[46:23] change from water to you know moisture to to air and all that, does that lead

[46:27] to the closed closed loop system releasing more heat into the ecosystem

[46:31] via the water because of that cooling system instead of the air? Does that

[46:35] have some other unintended effects as well?

[46:37] » Yeah, I I think that's one of the the main factors that they end up dealing

[46:40] with. Uh same thing with the evaporative cooling, too. Uh they end up dealing

[46:44] with what's called blow down, which is where they end up cleaning out some of

[46:46] those systems because they're dealing with that high concentration now. You've

[46:50] gone from having um say 100 gallons, um the evaporation would take up roughly 75

[46:55] gallons of that, then you've got 25 gallons that are remaining, and that is

[46:59] more concentrated minerals and just everything else that's, you know,

[47:02] involved in it. So really, you know, you've got the trade-off and with both

[47:06] of these particular systems, you know, which one's better?

[47:09] You know, I don't know if you're looking more at the water conservation side,

[47:11] obviously the closed loop style systems, but you've got that trade-off just in

[47:14] energy consumption and just general heat output, too.

[47:19] » Okay. That's it. Thank you.

[47:23] A lot of questions, a lot of concerns. All right.

[47:27] The next on list Todd Romenesko, county administrator, and he's going to present

[47:32] how county finances shape Wisconsin human services.

[47:48] » Good evening. So this is intended to be one of about

[47:55] three um

[47:58] sessions that we're going to have with the county board in an effort to provide

[48:03] some education regarding overall county budgeting hopefully prior to your

[48:09] November action uh on the county board vote for the budget. So, we've heard

[48:15] over the years from board members that it's complex, it's confusing. So, um the

[48:22] finance director Mike Stegbauer and I have put together um

[48:25] different trainings uh to provide that information allowing you some time to

[48:29] kind of digest this um section by section.

[48:33] Um and hopefully also clear up some of the confusion that um some of your

[48:38] residents have had regarding tax bills and tax rates and things like that.

[48:43] So, um I'm hoping this will be informal. So,

[48:48] you'll just raise your hand. We will forego the um select the button for now

[48:52] so it could be interactive as questions come up.

[48:55] Um as I was preparing this I was thinking

[48:58] about um in 2003 when I was the deputy director for human

[49:05] services. In that fall of that year I prepared a

[49:09] budget that I thought was a strength-based budget, data-driven,

[49:14] uh responsible for um the county citizens.

[49:19] And that was in preparation for 2004.

[49:23] In January of 2004 that year we had two juvenile delinquents some board members

[49:30] will remember when this happened. Two juvenile delinquents that were on

[49:35] our caseload threw a large rock through a speeding vehicle.

[49:40] And the judge dealt with them harshly and

[49:44] sentenced them to Lincoln Hills. And

[49:49] for a county budget for Lincoln Hills at the time I can't even tell you for sure

[49:54] what the amount was for one youth to be sentenced to Lincoln Hills. That was all

[49:59] paid by county dollars. Today,

[50:02] um that's $468,000

[50:06] that the county pays out of our tax levy for the one youth.

[50:10] And I found myself that year in front of the county board, never

[50:16] having done that before, because my director conveniently was on

[50:19] a trip to Ireland when I needed to ask for money

[50:23] because we knew the budget was going to be blown.

[50:27] Over time, we prepare for one of those kids, maybe. But to try to prepare for

[50:33] youth that are unknown to us at times to commit a crime and be sentenced doesn't

[50:38] make any sense. So, it's very important for county board

[50:42] members to understand the impact that that has on county finances, things that

[50:47] are in our control, things are that aren't in our control.

[50:50] » Um >> And nobody did anything wrong in that

[50:53] instant except for the kids. Right? We prepared a budget that was

[50:57] responsible. Our staff followed the law. We could arguably the court made the

[51:03] right decisions, let's say, by these two youth um by sentencing them.

[51:08] Um but the budget was blown. So, it's important for

[51:13] human services directors and county board members across the state to

[51:17] understand um how that works, why that is, and if there's anything we can do

[51:22] about it.

[51:25] Um [clears throat] so, the objectives for today

[51:29] or tonight, cuz I'm assuming um none of you would consider yourselves

[51:34] experts in human services funding or county funding, right?

[51:38] So, there's always a little something to learn. Yeah.

[51:41] So, we will have um an understanding of Wisconsin county revenue structure,

[51:47] which is important across all departments.

[51:50] Um we'll identify pressures that are unique to your human services

[51:54] departments. And we'll explore strategic responses

[51:58] like what are you going to do about it um and why we need to do something about

[52:01] it.

[52:06] And because there was such interest in the data center in the interest of time,

[52:10] I'll try to keep this high level, but I won't spend a ton of time on a lot of

[52:13] these slides. Um so why the why do we face the

[52:17] structural mismatch is what I decided to call that for the um

[52:22] for this presentation that it's not a management problem. What I should tell

[52:27] you is this will also be in prime time at the WCA conference. So I've been

[52:31] asked to present this at a session on Monday, so you can feel free to skip or

[52:37] if you want to really get a deep dive, you can come to that one as well.

[52:41] Um so I like to say that it's not a management

[52:44] problem always. It's not always a management problem. There are certain

[52:48] things that we can do to try to manage expenses in certain areas within human

[52:54] services budgeting, but we live within this structural contradiction.

[53:00] We live within levy limits. We live within these mandates and it's important

[53:04] for us to know that we didn't create it. We can only manage so much within it.

[53:11] Um but what do we need to do to be uh in front of this as far as state

[53:17] legislature goes and in front of county boards. So I do this for human services

[53:22] directors across the state. I've been at county boards in Eau Claire,

[53:27] Langlade, Lincoln, I forget where else because county human services directors

[53:33] say I don't know what to do to educate my board. They look at me like I need to

[53:37] be within my budget and say how can you possibly come to a county board meeting

[53:42] without a balanced budget. So, this is why we need to talk about it

[53:47] and make sure that um we all understand.

[53:54] So, the structural mismatch. So, on the costs and demand side,

[54:00] some of this will be familiar to some of you.

[54:03] Service demand increases. So, that's not just unique to human services. That's in

[54:07] other areas. The public demands certain things um of us of counties.

[54:13] Um but we say that our client acuity is rising, also. And I've been doing this

[54:19] for almost 30 years, and I have seen far higher level of

[54:24] acuity with our patients than I've ever seen before, much more difficult.

[54:29] Uh placement costs are accelerating. So, we experience inflation

[54:34] in human services, counties. So, of course, providers.

[54:39] Providers have to pay people. Providers have to build buildings. So,

[54:43] the inflationary impact they pass on to us, of course. We pay for placements for

[54:49] individuals within our human services departments that were required to pay

[54:53] for. Uh workforce costs are climbing. You

[54:57] know that. You voted on budgets, wondering about health care costs,

[55:02] um advocating sometimes for uh competitive wages so we can maintain the

[55:07] workforce that we have, but it costs us money to do so.

[55:11] Um crisis response. So, human services crisis response is expanding.

[55:17] Um we're required to do more in crisis than we had been before.

[55:21] Um our mandates are growing. So, I spent a little bit of time with

[55:27] the human service health and human services board

[55:30] um with some new members going over just what mandates are. And all of the

[55:35] mandates that we're responsible for. And if I would have done the same thing 10,

[55:40] 15 years ago, there would have been fewer.

[55:43] So, they are growing and we talk about the unfunded mandates that exist within

[55:48] human services and it's a reality. And I actually do have that same mandate and

[55:52] revenue document cuz I think I've been doing it for about 15, 20 years. But

[55:56] there are more of them that exist. Um the revenue authority is flat.

[56:02] So, um those who have been on the board a

[56:05] long time or spent some time paying attention to what our levy limits are,

[56:12] our levy is tied to net new construction. So, you'll hear that, see

[56:16] that presented multiple times. You get no more funding, right? You're

[56:21] not going to be able to tax for more on the levy. That's it. It's net new

[56:26] construction, so it's flat. Shared revenue incremental growth.

[56:31] So, we did have some progress on shared revenue in 2023.

[56:37] I testified with Jonathan Delagrave, the county exec from Racine and the county

[56:42] exec from Winnebago, Jon Damon at the time, pushing for legislation to um pass

[56:50] the shared revenue change. And we got it, but honestly, when we

[56:55] were there, we were talking to ourselves saying, "Well, this is all we're going

[56:58] to get right now." We need more, but we're going to take

[57:01] this little step with the legislature um because it's better than nothing. And it

[57:06] does it's tied to inflation a little bit.

[57:09] Uh but I think for Calumet County last year or for this budget,

[57:15] shared revenue because of that bill may be increased for us by about 30 to

[57:18] 40,000 dollars in our total budget.

[57:22] Um state allocations are categorical um and slow.

[57:28] And what I mean by that is the state ties specific things to our funding.

[57:34] Requires us to spend it only on this, which then as you can imagine ignores

[57:39] where maybe some of our increases are coming from.

[57:43] Medicaid, [clears throat] I won't get into the difficulty around

[57:47] Medicaid. It's an opportunity, certainly.

[57:50] We have had some wins. That's a a revenue that we can try to generate. Um

[57:55] but there's a risk with it. Uh and county boards around the state are leery

[58:02] of trusting their leadership in human services because a lot of times what it

[58:08] takes to get Medicaid dollars is staff. And county boards are conservative

[58:13] saying, "Okay, so you're losing money, but you want to add staff when the

[58:17] county administrator is standing in front of us saying staff is the most

[58:20] expensive thing that we have." So, it doesn't really always make sense to an

[58:24] elected official, right? So, there it's opportunity to build those revenues, but

[58:28] it's it's a risk that people have to be willing to take.

[58:32] And there's no stabilization mechanism. There's nothing that addresses when we

[58:37] have things that go up our costs go up. There's no revenue to generate to really

[58:43] stabilize in emergencies such as the Lincoln Hills placements that I

[58:47] described. >> [clears throat]

[58:51] » So, the revenue tools in counties and why they fall short. So, here's the

[58:54] brief history lesson of county funding in Wisconsin,

[58:58] if you didn't already know. In the 1990s,

[59:02] which is when I started in Calumet County,

[59:05] we had rising property tax era is what I decided to call it on here because it's

[59:11] true. Everything we did was tied to the

[59:14] property tax because that's all we had.

[59:17] So, county boards were able to spend what they need, respond to urgent needs

[59:22] within human services by taxing your property taxpayers.

[59:26] Now, that was very, um,

[59:32] I would say varying across the state depending on the county board.

[59:37] Right? So, some county boards were willing to put more money in certain

[59:40] things and some were not. Some were choosing to do that in law

[59:45] enforcement and sheriff's office and some were willing to do it in the human

[59:48] services area. But, regardless, it was all on the property taxpayer.

[59:54] Um, I list things here, you know, that there were no statutory caps, so we

[59:58] could fluctuate based on need. Um, flexibility existed for us within the

[1:00:04] overall county budget, so we didn't have to do things that way. We didn't have to

[1:00:09] send unreasonable amounts to the taxpayer because you guys have to run

[1:00:13] for office. So, it still needed to be somewhat reasonable, but it did exist

[1:00:17] with flexibility for us to respond to those high needs.

[1:00:21] The 2000s, uh, is when levy limits started to emerge. So, the state started

[1:00:27] looking at this saying, "The state of Wisconsin puts too much on the property

[1:00:31] taxpayer. We have to address that in some way."

[1:00:34] So, they started putting caps on what we could generate for revenue

[1:00:40] and didn't change the mandates.

[1:00:45] So, the state was intended to fully fund county human services.

[1:00:51] There's nobody around probably that really remembers that that was the the

[1:00:55] the way it all started is that these certain dollar amounts, um,

[1:01:00] not just the levy, but contracts that they had with

[1:01:04] counties was intended to fully fund place placements like Lincoln Hills.

[1:01:08] Was intended to fully fund anything we needed to do with our human services and

[1:01:12] they began realizing that they couldn't

[1:01:15] afford it as a state. Uh, so they started passing that on to

[1:01:18] the counties. Shared revenue was created in 2000s as

[1:01:23] well. And it exists, but it doesn't really

[1:01:27] move with anything. It doesn't grow with inflation, the 2000s version.

[1:01:33] And then in 2011, we had Act 10. So, some of you

[1:01:39] remember that, were affected by that professionally or otherwise.

[1:01:43] Uh certainly I remember that. It became a time when the county had much more

[1:01:48] flexibility around unions and how we paid staff and

[1:01:54] what we were required to do or what they were required to do, but it allowed for

[1:01:58] some flexibility, but it also created a completely different competitive

[1:02:02] workforce. And in 2023, as I just described, the

[1:02:06] shared revenue reform occurred. Um but it also came with some categorical

[1:02:13] restrictions. I don't know how many of you have

[1:02:16] actually really looked at the impact of the

[1:02:20] um shared revenue reform bill in 2023.

[1:02:24] Don't have to be embarrassed to not raise your hand, but I know that you

[1:02:27] were all supportive of it, right? Because it gave us some money.

[1:02:32] But what it also did was it created all kinds of requirements for us

[1:02:37] that said, "Well, you're only going to get this money if you agree to take over

[1:02:43] a service from somebody else." So, what require it would require us to,

[1:02:48] for example, if we wanted to do public health for the city of Appleton,

[1:02:52] we would qualify for additional revenue under the shared revenue reform. Do you

[1:02:57] think the city of Appleton's going to want to give us public health?

[1:03:00] » No. No.

[1:03:02] » And so, we hear often times from our state legislature, "Why aren't you

[1:03:05] taking advantage of it? Why aren't you taking advantage of it?" Like this was

[1:03:08] the this was the thing that was going to save us all kinds of money. Like we

[1:03:12] could give our services to somebody else to run.

[1:03:15] And they could get money or we could take it and run it. So, it's in theory,

[1:03:19] it's not a bad idea, but it's still your taxpayer's money.

[1:03:24] So, there's a parochial element to that that's always going to exist unless we

[1:03:28] do something drastically different. But, that that did not

[1:03:31] answer everything that we needed answer. Uh property tax limits levy limits the

[1:03:37] core constraint this just shows you and you've heard it from me year after year

[1:03:43] after year Cali Mac County's typical levy growth

[1:03:47] because we are growing. We are one of the lucky ones.

[1:03:52] And we're still only at 2.5 2.8 One lucky year, I think I can

[1:03:58] remember we were at 3%. So, that's as much as we're going to

[1:04:02] get. Um and that's on a really good year. Our neighbors last time did not

[1:04:07] fare as well. I think they were less than 2% around the lake with Fond du Lac

[1:04:12] and Winnebago. Uh disappointing because it's all tied to the net new

[1:04:16] construction. This is important because of course our

[1:04:19] health and human services cost of inflation is closer to 7%.

[1:04:24] So, revenue flat costs are going up. The levy relief for crisis years is 0%.

[1:04:32] So, it doesn't matter if we're in crisis. Doesn't matter if we have high

[1:04:35] costs. Um those revenues are not going to

[1:04:39] adjust with what we have going on.

[1:04:44] I wanted to make sure you saw the inflation versus the net new

[1:04:47] construction. Um I do put this in your budget

[1:04:51] packet every year because I it's just an important visual

[1:04:56] for you to understand that the county net new construction, that orange line

[1:05:03] is better that's why I'm saying we're one of the

[1:05:06] lucky ones than the gray line on the bottom which is your Wisconsin overall

[1:05:11] Wisconsin net new construction, which is flat.

[1:05:15] You look at the blue line, those are annual CPI.

[1:05:21] And the reason I I like and hate this slide is because people misconstrue the

[1:05:27] ending, the '24 '25 as if oh, that gap's gotten smaller.

[1:05:31] It It really hasn't. The hurt on CPI occurred

[1:05:37] '20, '21, '22, '23. It's not growing as fast, but the impact

[1:05:43] is still there on our expenses. We didn't get less expensive.

[1:05:47] I mean, things aren't drastically going down. I know everybody's excited about

[1:05:50] gas prices, but we don't all of a sudden say, oh, we're paying less for health

[1:05:53] insurance, or we're paying less for our employees, or we're paying less for

[1:05:56] providers. That's not the way it works. So, this is just a very good visual for

[1:06:01] everybody to understand. Levy limits are not sustainable

[1:06:04] when your human services department is mandated to provide service.

[1:06:11] Shared revenue and state aids, incremental gains, structural gaps. So,

[1:06:15] this is just another way to show you that

[1:06:19] the levy shared revenue growth small. We made some minor gains with the

[1:06:25] shared revenue reform. That's what you see in '23 '24.

[1:06:29] But your your HHS expenditures continue to

[1:06:33] grow beyond the revenue amounts.

[1:06:39] I wanted to put sales tax on here. It's not always It's not as relevant for

[1:06:44] Calumet. But across the state, if you don't know

[1:06:48] this, most counties that had sales tax that

[1:06:52] have had it forever pay for operations.

[1:06:57] I would tell you that's not a sustainable model. It's not a good idea,

[1:07:01] but they did it many, many years ago out of need because the levy limits

[1:07:06] occurred. They were already beyond what they could pay for. Calumet, what I else

[1:07:11] I'll give all the credit to everybody that I inherited it from, had a fiscally

[1:07:15] conservative board that really maintained a very good

[1:07:21] balance for us to come in and then make sales tax only about capital projects,

[1:07:27] not about operations. So, this is not intended for you to

[1:07:31] think, "Oh gosh, now he's thinking operations should be paid with sales tax

[1:07:35] money." That's not that at all. But, it is the reality across the state

[1:07:39] except for the few of us that were around the lake and Waukesha,

[1:07:43] I think was one that didn't. Um they are in an advantage

[1:07:50] per se over us uh because they're taking those sales

[1:07:54] tax dollars and applying them as they need because it grows with inflation.

[1:07:59] You've seen our sales tax number. It's pretty good.

[1:08:03] Um but, this is a reality across the state in other counties that human

[1:08:07] services face in county boards have to decide how to apply those sales tax

[1:08:11] dollars cuz they actually will pay for people, positions, placements, things

[1:08:15] within HHS.

[1:08:19] So, there's a there's a structural divide there as well.

[1:08:26] I talked a little bit about Lincoln Hills. It's important for you to

[1:08:28] understand the mandates at a very high level.

[1:08:32] I just need you to know all of the things that you see on this slide right

[1:08:37] now are what we pay attention to on a regular basis because these will break

[1:08:42] the budget. Uh we may come in like I did in 2003 and

[1:08:47] think we have a good plan. We have one placement for Lincoln Hills and other

[1:08:50] placements that are necessary, but we don't control where people move,

[1:08:55] where they decide to live. So, a very expensive

[1:08:59] youth or an adult could live in Fond du Lac, Manitowoc, Winnebago, Sheboygan,

[1:09:06] Milwaukee and move here and they are now our financial

[1:09:11] responsibility and I never even knew they were existed.

[1:09:15] How many people remember Ray Brock, County Board member?

[1:09:18] » Ray Brock. >> Ray Brock was the one at that meeting in

[1:09:22] 2003 that said and he was a he was a good

[1:09:26] friend of my dad's. He pointed at me and he said, "You

[1:09:30] should have known with today's technology." Now, this is

[1:09:34] 2003, okay? With today's technology, you should have known that that was going to

[1:09:39] happen. And I said, "Based on what? The

[1:09:42] actuaries that we have trying to help us to determine we're a county, we're not

[1:09:46] an insurance company, right?" But it just it just showed me that we have a

[1:09:50] lot to teach and to say that, "Well, I couldn't I

[1:09:55] can't even predict who's going to move here."

[1:09:57] And we have had that within the last couple of years where we've had very

[1:10:01] expensive people relocate to Calumet County and they're on your dime.

[1:10:07] Uh and you're obviously not going to say, "Well, you should move back or find

[1:10:10] a way for it." We don't play those games ethically or morally. We're going to

[1:10:14] provide the service that's mandated, but we don't control where they move. So, it

[1:10:18] becomes a very tricky situation.

[1:10:24] Yeah. >> [laughter]

[1:10:27] » So, uh we also don't control the courts. You know, the courts make decisions. I

[1:10:31] got the call I think it was last week.

[1:10:35] Uh one of our youth committed a serious crime.

[1:10:38] The um District Attorney's office called and said, "Well, I want you to hear it

[1:10:42] from me directly that I am going to recommend that we blow your budget

[1:10:46] because there's a placement that needs to occur at Lincoln Hills with a young

[1:10:49] man and probably his brother, so that's two possibly.

[1:10:53] Um and we don't have any control over that

[1:10:56] and it's hard for us to go before a judge and recommend something else in

[1:11:00] certain situations when it's just dangerous for the individual to be in

[1:11:04] the community. We try, um, but we don't have control

[1:11:08] over the court's decision. I tell that to the judge often. I said, "You're the

[1:11:13] judge. We have We don't have to like your

[1:11:15] decisions, but we have to live by them, follow them, and in some instances we

[1:11:20] have to pay for them as well financially."

[1:11:24] Um, mental health cases in-patient costs aren't as bad, but there's a funding gap

[1:11:30] for crisis. Um,

[1:11:33] law enforcement is affected by human services, um, if funding is an issue and

[1:11:39] staffing is an issue because they're the guys that are out there with our mental

[1:11:43] health patients, assessing for safety, waiting for us to find placements in

[1:11:48] hospital settings that are virtually impossible to get,

[1:11:52] um, if they're unwilling to take an individual.

[1:11:56] Um, workforce economics, that I think you're familiar with. Um, health care

[1:12:01] costs, uh, drive what we do. Um, we had this year was the first year

[1:12:07] that I think I've been doing this job that it's been a 0% increase.

[1:12:12] Um, which I mean, saves saves us a lot of money. We didn't get a reduction, but

[1:12:17] it's better than the 10, 12, you know, 15% increases we've been experiencing.

[1:12:25] This is out of the green book. So, I've showed this So, if you haven't

[1:12:31] seen the green book yet, you will. Everybody will get one. We,

[1:12:35] um, talk from some of the items within the green book

[1:12:39] at budget time. I have shared this slide with county

[1:12:43] boards when I've presented human services funding. This one's probably

[1:12:47] really hard for you to see. But,

[1:12:50] I re- I rearranged it with the permission of

[1:12:54] um Forward Analytics who puts the book out. I called and said, "I want to

[1:12:58] rearrange the slide because I want to show lowest per capita

[1:13:03] to highest per capita because every time I've gone to a county board

[1:13:08] where they've been struggling with human services financing they want to know

[1:13:13] "Why does Racine have it all figured out and only pays $161 per capita? And

[1:13:19] what's wrong with Menominee when it's $799

[1:13:23] per capita?" So, this only tells you one like

[1:13:27] Yeah. James is like, "Yeah, right. You were

[1:13:30] there."

[1:13:34] Exactly. Right. >> [laughter]

[1:13:39] » Yes. So, it doesn't tell the whole story.

[1:13:41] Right? We're always in the middle. We're about 387. I don't know what we are in

[1:13:45] here. 378 transposed. 378 on this one. So, this just tells a little bit of a

[1:13:52] story. It doesn't tell the whole story. You understand that with data of all

[1:13:55] sorts, right? So, different things within tell a different story, but what

[1:14:00] board member what jumps out at board members or what jumps out at the public

[1:14:03] is, "How can this be less money? How can this be less expensive?" Um

[1:14:08] and across the state human services accounts for about 1/3 of the entire

[1:14:14] county budget county by county. It's it's the most volatile and the most

[1:14:19] expensive thing that you have going. And it's

[1:14:23] seriously affected by how counties are funded in the state of Wisconsin. And

[1:14:27] it's important for you just to have an understanding of that and then what we

[1:14:30] can do about it. Here's something you're also you see this one every year from me

[1:14:34] at budget time. And I show this to human services

[1:14:38] directors because I think sometimes human services gets a bad rap because of

[1:14:43] mandates. You can set a budget for the sheriff's office

[1:14:49] and they can pretty much keep it. Stick to it.

[1:14:52] Uh because it's really mostly staff. I mean, we made the decision on the jail

[1:14:57] and that's an expensive venture, but we knew it. Certain fixed costs are going

[1:15:01] to go with that. But their staffing, unless there's significant overtime, but

[1:15:05] that's typically because they're lower staffed overall.

[1:15:09] So, they have to make up for it in corrections or on patrol. But it's a

[1:15:12] pretty fixed amount. But typically, they cost you more on the total tax levy.

[1:15:18] Um so, they're 8 and 1/2 million. Health and Human Services here is 5 million.

[1:15:23] That's assuming that HHS doesn't jump up another million dollars

[1:15:28] above budget because of those Lincoln Hills placements.

[1:15:35] So, what happens?

[1:15:38] Yeah, go ahead.

[1:15:43] Yes. It's now $1,268

[1:15:47] per day per child or per youth. The state legislature

[1:15:53] in this budget wanted to at least double that rate.

[1:16:00] Which would have busted many counties financially. So, when our legislators

[1:16:05] come here like Ron Tusler and I tell them, "Do you realize what

[1:16:08] that's doing?" Cuz that's a state facility. So, they're they're paying

[1:16:12] themselves. But we're paying them the additional

[1:16:15] rate. So, Governor Evers vetoed it thankfully

[1:16:20] and kept us at the rate we're at now. That's the same amount we were before.

[1:16:24] Their costs are up. Um they

[1:16:28] just like anything else, right? It's dangerous. They've had some major

[1:16:33] uh crimes occur with staff and against

[1:16:38] staff. Physical,

[1:16:41] uh I know of a man that worked there that had a brain injury because of being

[1:16:46] attacked by a youth. So, it becomes

[1:16:50] not so popular to say we're not going to pay for the higher costs,

[1:16:54] but we're at We won this one. Um

[1:16:58] if we didn't have to have them to that extent and the state could figure out

[1:17:01] how to do it, it would be better. We've pushed back

[1:17:04] about why are we paying for it. We've pushed back about you need to pay for

[1:17:08] Meet us halfway, pay for more. And this is all funded This is in the weeds a

[1:17:13] bit, but it's all funded by youth aids, which

[1:17:18] was supposed to pay 100% of our costs, never has since I've been here, and it

[1:17:24] is the worst funding uh that we've ever received as counties

[1:17:31] for um corrections type placements. It's

[1:17:34] It's just not grown. The state's unwilling to move it up in any way.

[1:17:40] Did you have a question?

[1:17:45] That's been going on probably for 12 years or more.

[1:17:54] Yep.

[1:17:58] Well, so we were We were slotted to have one

[1:18:02] in our area in Brown County, and then Brown County got us all

[1:18:06] together and said, "Okay, who's willing to do this and participate?" Well, they

[1:18:11] wanted us to to pay for it. And I was I was one that was unwilling,

[1:18:16] and then eventually Brown County became unwilling to do so.

[1:18:20] Um I think the intent of that was to get the youth

[1:18:25] in facilities closer to their homes. Uh because connection to their parents

[1:18:30] and their family and improving things, as you know, gets them home sooner and

[1:18:35] uh changes behavior, you would hope. The real intention of Lincoln Hills is a

[1:18:39] safety and containment. And once you get beyond the safety and

[1:18:43] containment need, what are you going to do? They have to go back out into the

[1:18:46] community. So, it requires a family

[1:18:50] of some sort. And if they don't have a family, a placement of some sort. Um,

[1:18:56] but it's it's not really moved because it takes a lot of money to do that.

[1:19:03] Yeah, that's what I think she was indicating in the southern part. So, um,

[1:19:07] there's more to be done on that. I am really reluctant to be overly

[1:19:12] supportive of county funding state institutional placements.

[1:19:17] I mean, building a state institution that we're going to have to pay for it

[1:19:20] doesn't make any sense to me. If they were to fix the funding model,

[1:19:24] um, or if they were just to build it in our area for the right reason, then I

[1:19:28] think we could get behind it. But we under And then I can go back and show

[1:19:32] the chart again, under completely flat revenue,

[1:19:37] it makes no sense for them to look to us to help pay for these things when we're

[1:19:42] barely paying for the placements and and service to the clients that we have

[1:19:47] right now.

[1:19:54] Yep.

[1:19:56] Trempealeau, yep. So, that's one of the behavioral health ones. So, here the

[1:20:01] mechanism, that's why when I say it's not always a it's not a management

[1:20:05] problem or it's not always a management problem.

[1:20:08] Sometimes directors, I mean, they're responsible

[1:20:12] ultimately for the bottom line of that budget, right? You guys will hold them

[1:20:16] responsible for that. Sometimes they're unaware

[1:20:20] of placements at Trempealeau ahead of time.

[1:20:24] And that's I think inexcusable. I think they need to be made aware. They need to

[1:20:28] have systems in place that because then they should be in front of the board if

[1:20:33] they need to be or their boss, the exec or the administrator if they need to be.

[1:20:37] And sometimes the the place the placement's appropriate. I mean, every

[1:20:41] time it occurs it should be appropriate. But we here, I will tell you, we are

[1:20:47] working on discharge planning before they even get there.

[1:20:51] Because facilities

[1:20:54] as I'm sure you will understand want certain placements

[1:20:59] to keep their business going. And we need to be very aware that yes,

[1:21:04] they're not going to be telling us something that's not a benefit to the

[1:21:08] patient, right? But they're also not moving as fast as we want them to

[1:21:14] on some things. Because ultimately the goal is community

[1:21:20] living. Community placements. That's another

[1:21:22] thing I inherited here in our chronically mentally ill

[1:21:26] um system from Mary Kennedy who was the director here,

[1:21:30] um had no placements for our CSP. They were

[1:21:35] all in their own independent community placements.

[1:21:38] Uh they worked hard and they staffed up. That's why our staffing levels look good

[1:21:42] here, but we don't pay for those big placements because eventually

[1:21:45] the people need to be living in their own community and contributing to their

[1:21:49] own community independently. That's the right thing to do by the

[1:21:53] patients. Um

[1:21:56] So,

[1:21:59] what actually happens when we have these financial issues, we can't cut mandates

[1:22:05] because we have no control over them. So, we don't go after mandated services.

[1:22:10] Um we can't stop placements that are necessary or crisis.

[1:22:16] Um but what we do

[1:22:19] is things like hiring freezes. So, if we have vacancies, we hold off on

[1:22:26] position. We rely on those vacancy savings. If we

[1:22:31] know there's a high placement and we know we have vacancies, we may not

[1:22:34] actively recruit for a period of time, 6 months, sometimes a year. I've had place

[1:22:40] positions open for 2 years waiting for expenses to turn around.

[1:22:45] We delay on IT and infrastructure modernization.

[1:22:50] We have had the same system that we were the first county to

[1:22:54] purchase it from Dane County Mental Health Center. I was a brand new

[1:22:58] employee here and I was charged with IT modernization.

[1:23:03] Now I laugh because I'm like the last person you'd want to ask.

[1:23:07] » [laughter] >> I've been promoted to the level of

[1:23:09] incompetence, like they don't let you do things IT related anymore.

[1:23:13] Right? I think I asked Chris, could you tee up my presentation cuz I don't even

[1:23:16] know how to find it on the laptop. Um, but we've had the same system. We

[1:23:22] still have that one since 1990 7. Um, increased caseloads per worker,

[1:23:28] that's what we do when we hold staff vacancies or we do hiring freezes. And

[1:23:33] then we burn out and then we have the turnover cycle. Um,

[1:23:37] the hidden cost to those things, of course,

[1:23:40] increased jail utilization. How many of you heard

[1:23:45] Sheriff's office say, "All of our inmates have mental health issues."

[1:23:50] "All of our inmates have drug and alcohol issues."

[1:23:53] Yeah, well, it's a direct result of the state doesn't fund human services

[1:23:57] treatment staffing levels. They end up in the jail, in the

[1:24:01] correction system. There was a Medicaid managed care study done in a southern

[1:24:06] state that's going to escape me now. Um, that showed increased utilization of

[1:24:11] jails because of managed care for mental health in their Medicaid system. I mean,

[1:24:16] it is just a fact. Um, emergency room hospital costs. So,

[1:24:20] we impact the system costs for hospitals because they're spending a lot of time

[1:24:27] with our individuals in emergency rooms or with our elderly that are on

[1:24:32] emergency protective placements. Law enforcement time I explained to you

[1:24:36] a little bit. School disruptions, so we have youth delinquents in schools

[1:24:40] causing issues for principals, guidance, police school

[1:24:45] liaison officers, the hidden cost to those um

[1:24:49] could be related back to visible response and cuts in service.

[1:24:53] Um we always defer prevention because the state never pays us for

[1:24:58] prevention. And we all know that preventive care,

[1:25:02] just like anything in the medical system, human services, health and human

[1:25:06] services is no different. That's where the money should go, but

[1:25:10] instead of Forget how we say that. Instead of um

[1:25:15] cutting the things to prevent the fire, we're cutting the things that put the

[1:25:20] fires out because we end up paying for these deep

[1:25:23] end costs because we don't have the prevention uh money to do anything about

[1:25:27] it. I have not recommended prevention

[1:25:30] programs here, and we're pretty We're usually in a pretty good place

[1:25:34] financially. We have some time, sometimes if caseloads are low,

[1:25:39] that we can use some prevention. Real prevention programs is what I'm talking

[1:25:43] about. Um and then the community trust, I mean,

[1:25:46] across the state um health and human services struggles

[1:25:51] in certain areas because they're not responsive and they're not preventing,

[1:25:55] and they feel like um the community members sometimes or

[1:25:59] family members are thinking that we're not doing what we are meant to do.

[1:26:03] Um Medicaid tool, I won't get into this with you tonight, but um other than

[1:26:10] maybe just the risk part of it. So, we go after For those of you who

[1:26:14] know me, I will go after every Medicaid dollar that we've ever had. I've been a

[1:26:18] part of state developing Medicaid programs to benefit benefit counties.

[1:26:25] And whether or not that's always a great thing to say out loud, it depends

[1:26:30] because some of those Medicaid dollars that we grab, it's very

[1:26:35] complicated and difficult to get them. Um but we'll go after everyone because

[1:26:40] that's all we have. But staff have to

[1:26:45] hired at times to do that. And so we have to chase those dollars. And we

[1:26:48] sometimes have to expand a service to be able to get Medicaid revenue, which

[1:26:53] seems kind of counter indicated. Um and audit exposure.

[1:26:58] There are many times when the state's like, well,

[1:27:01] yeah, we said that you could do that, but now that the Medicaid audit's

[1:27:04] occurring, we're going to need to claw back some dollars. This never happened

[1:27:08] here. Um we've never had to pay anything back,

[1:27:11] but Marinette and some other counties around us have had to pay back

[1:27:16] audit dollars, which I don't know is entirely all of their their fault.

[1:27:22] Um so what actually needs to happen, and this is we'll get into this more at the

[1:27:28] WCA conference, what we need elected officials to do to Paul's question about

[1:27:33] have you ever fought back about Lincoln Hills and the rate,

[1:27:37] we need levy limit modernization in the state of Wisconsin.

[1:27:42] 100%. I know you know that, um but it is such

[1:27:47] a bigger issue as far as who we serve and what we have to do.

[1:27:52] We don't have choices in A and health and human services. We don't have a

[1:27:56] choice to allow a person to continue to be dangerous in the community.

[1:28:03] Um we don't. I mean, we're required by a law to respond to that individual,

[1:28:08] essentially take away their rights, put them in a hospital, and manage them 6

[1:28:13] months a year, maybe longer.

[1:28:16] Um and it requires money to do that. So, um levy growth is not

[1:28:23] um eliminating the levy limit is not going

[1:28:26] to happen. So, we take the little wins that we can

[1:28:29] get, but we need something um to recognize that mandate growth and costs

[1:28:33] are going up. So, we need a revenue somehow

[1:28:37] beyond just the property taxpayer. Um human services can do things. Part of

[1:28:42] this was done for directors, so those slides are still here, but they can do

[1:28:47] things that they're not right now, which is statewide contract negotiations for

[1:28:52] providers. So, not necessarily Lincoln Hills

[1:28:55] because they're a state um

[1:28:58] correction facility, but other private organizations, we can negotiate with

[1:29:05] them um to create more favorable contracts.

[1:29:09] It's um it's a tricky balance that we have to do

[1:29:13] because of course we need the providers. So, you need providers to be able to

[1:29:17] make money, right? They have to be able to sustain be sustainable um to serve

[1:29:21] our clients, so we can't um cut them too much cuz otherwise it uh we

[1:29:27] don't have the placements available. Stabilization fund, possibly

[1:29:31] um we could advocate for that. That's a human services thing.

[1:29:36] Um WCA, of course, um I think we have to have a unified message across all 72

[1:29:42] counties. I think when Alice and I have been talking about things like data

[1:29:45] centers, um

[1:29:48] WCA seems to be willing to do things more to collect all 72 counties

[1:29:53] together. It's difficult to be a counties association when you have 72

[1:29:57] counties with varying opinions. Um but we need to kind of find places to meet

[1:30:01] in the middle. Legislative alignment, levy reform,

[1:30:06] we have to do that. I wanted to show you this rate this

[1:30:10] chart. Um I don't remember if I've ever shown this

[1:30:14] to you at budget time, but I've realized um after the last budget, I'm definitely

[1:30:19] going to. Because a board member called me and

[1:30:22] said, "Wait a minute. You told me the rate went down.

[1:30:26] And I'm getting calls from my constituents about the tax rate.

[1:30:31] And this is a very important visual for you to see and understand why state

[1:30:38] legislators never want to change the levy limit.

[1:30:43] Because that red line is your county tax levy.

[1:30:47] Flat. Right? Like I've shown in previous

[1:30:51] charts. That orange is the equalized value.

[1:30:56] So, equalized value of your property owners, you've seen your bill,

[1:31:00] your tax bill. The blue line is the tax rate.

[1:31:06] So, they can come before you and you can go to your constituents and

[1:31:11] say, "We've cut the tax rate." Yeah, well, that's how the math works.

[1:31:16] That's what I want board members to see because Yeah, you're laughing, but it's

[1:31:20] true. It's because of the levy limit. We can't

[1:31:25] raise it. The valuation goes up

[1:31:30] and the rate goes down. So, they aren't going to be willing to

[1:31:36] change that unless there's a significant change in their perspective of the tax

[1:31:41] rates all that matters. Because that's This chart doesn't change

[1:31:46] under This is a result of the levy limit calculation.

[1:31:50] This is why it is the way it is. It shows that your property tax rates

[1:31:56] are less, but the equalized value in in most recent years continues to go up, so

[1:32:00] sometimes those bills go up even though the rates go down, and that's not even

[1:32:04] to um bring into the calculation about school on that tax bill.

[1:32:10] But, that's just an awareness of the political climate. I don't think we're

[1:32:13] going to get the state legislature to change that. So, we have to go after

[1:32:18] something else. Um

[1:32:22] this gets in what directors can actually do.

[1:32:25] Um but, we have structural constraints. Um

[1:32:29] you've heard us say this before. It's It's much more of a reality in

[1:32:34] certain areas where there's mandates, which is human services.

[1:32:38] Um it affects other departments, of course, because if Chris wants to add

[1:32:43] capacity to GIS, he may have to wait a couple years until Health and Human

[1:32:49] Services levy is less dependent on you mean the mandate shrink. So, it affects

[1:32:54] decisions that we make to other departments.

[1:32:57] Um that are on the tax levy. History of county funding is a history

[1:33:02] of mandates outpacing revenue tools. It's a reality. We need to be talking

[1:33:06] about it, and we need to share the data. We need a new revenue

[1:33:10] um beyond shared revenue reform.

[1:33:14] We need to provide the data. We need to collaborate as counties.

[1:33:18] We do some things with human services day at the capital. That was Alice's.

[1:33:22] So, we do go and advocate, which is a wonderful thing. But, I know I've been

[1:33:26] there with some counties that are bringing their own message

[1:33:30] because it affects them much more than the statewide um advocacy does. So,

[1:33:36] we have to be better about that. Um

[1:33:41] it's the end of That's the fast high-level version of county funds and

[1:33:45] HHS.

[1:33:52] And you'll get more. I know you're looking forward to it.

[1:33:56] You'll get the countywide one. >> Next.

[1:34:54] » And mine's broke. Mine's broke. I can't vote.

[1:35:34] » Yes. Um I called Todd earlier today, or I

[1:35:38] actually called Emmy, and he said he would give me like an open mic. Um

[1:35:42] my wife was diagnosed with cancer last August.

[1:35:46] They took uh most of the month of September and October to decide what to

[1:35:50] treat her with. >> Supervisor Miller, we need to deal with

[1:35:54] this motion first. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know.

[1:35:57] » I please you voted your ballot so it's >> Joe, we're just trying to carry you on.

[1:36:01] Okay. >> All right. We passed yes, 14 yes, seven

[1:36:05] absent so that has been approved. The next appointment is the re-

[1:36:10] re-appointment of Kevin Fischer whose term will expire June 30th, 2026 and his

[1:36:16] new term will expire July 30th, 2029. I need a motion to adopt.

[1:36:25] » I was just saying I don't know.

[1:36:30] » Someone give me a motion. >> voted on all of them.

[1:36:33] » Oh, we did.

[1:36:36] We did? I did not ask for that. Okay. All right, then I guess it's all

[1:36:41] approved. >> be okay.

[1:36:43] » Okay. All right.

[1:36:46] Now we have an appointment while you did that one, too.

[1:36:50] Lynette Malburg? >> It It's the way it was set up.

[1:36:53] » All right, then all three of them were approved. Lynette Malburg was gone to

[1:36:58] the zoning board of adjustments and her term will expire July June 30th, 2029.

[1:37:05] » to confirm that there's no objection to that.

[1:37:07] » Is there any objection to any of those? Seeing none.

[1:37:12] » Okay. I just We just want to make sure that

[1:37:15] » They're approved. Okay. All right.

[1:37:19] No, we aren't going to meet in July. >> Yep, so just go in the you know, right.

[1:37:24] So you don't have to We don't have to indicate that at this point anyway.

[1:37:27] » All right, the next regular meeting will be July. Whether we'll have one or not,

[1:37:31] you will be notified. So consideration of adjust- additional

[1:37:36] items uh for the next board meeting, does anyone have anything they'd like to

[1:37:40] add?

[1:37:44] If you do, please let myself know or or Todd. And Supervisor Miller, you had

[1:37:50] something you wanted to to

[1:37:53] address. >> Okay, thank you. My hearing aids are

[1:37:56] about run out, so I'm not hearing very well. I've had them in since probably

[1:37:59] 4:30 this morning. So, as I said before, my wife had to

[1:38:03] deal with cancer a second time. And through all of this, I started

[1:38:08] trying to get as much done with the Veterans Administration. Michelle and

[1:38:11] Kevin been very helpful. So, I'll I'll cut straight on that. Her family was

[1:38:16] tremendous to get through this. I got kids that live in five states out of 10.

[1:38:21] One deceased. So, we're making it through. Everybody's doing okay.

[1:38:24] My one son from Texas is still up here. And so, we'll be okay. So, VA

[1:38:30] Michelle got appointments for me, things I should have been doing 60 years ago if

[1:38:33] they'd have had their act together. So, I get stuff like I made an

[1:38:37] appointment at Grand Chute. I had to go there to make it cuz we can't get

[1:38:41] through on the phone. Am I too loud? >> No, you're good.

[1:38:44] » So, my neighbor Rick has the same problem. We can't connect. So, we go

[1:38:47] there to get an appointment. That very afternoon, they call me from VA, and

[1:38:51] that would be on the 26th of May, saying that you have an appointment in Ionia

[1:38:57] for your hearing test. I says, "11:00 there and 3:00 at Grand Chute, it going

[1:39:02] to work. It going to work." So, they switched it to

[1:39:06] to Monday, and we went to Menominee. And I had a guy drive me cuz I spent some

[1:39:12] long days. Okay? Had a guy drive me. So, for 31 minutes, I'm in a booth. I worked

[1:39:17] at a mill way out here just south of This particular time, don't sit down.

[1:39:20] They throw them in your ears. Okay? Now, when the when the when the beep comes

[1:39:25] up, you have to say the word. Used to press a button.

[1:39:29] I've got Agent Orange symptoms here ever since Vietnam. I've never gotten any

[1:39:33] compensation. We might be getting close. So, anyway,

[1:39:36] say the word. I need some water, man. I need some water. At least four times

[1:39:39] through that 12 minutes. Then the next one,

[1:39:43] say the word girl. So, you got to say say the word lake. Same thing, water.

[1:39:48] Used to be able to press the button. I'm sitting down, okay.

[1:39:52] Oh, about 12 minutes of that, and gal's outside the tube just taking a

[1:39:56] recording. And then the last one again is the little more deeper thing, first

[1:39:59] your left ear and then your right ear. And you got to say yes. You got to say

[1:40:04] yes. Man, really drained me out. So, 31

[1:40:06] minutes in there. Let's get out of here. We go home. So, I submit my mileage.

[1:40:11] They let us know they pay 41 cents a mile, way behind the 77. So, the 217

[1:40:17] miles, yeah, a week later I got the check. I wouldn't cash it right away, it

[1:40:20] was good. We burned it in the bar. So, anyway, took it. So, the next thing

[1:40:24] then, last week Thursday, I get a call from a guy in Texas scheduling

[1:40:30] appointments, paperwork from Indiana for the VA, saying that I have an

[1:40:34] appointment on the 15th. So, this was on Thursday of last week.

[1:40:40] I have appointment on the 15th in X, you know, XONIA. It's still in my

[1:40:44] Oconomowoc. Okay, so that is my um

[1:40:50] Yeah, my uh PSTS, okay. Never had that. Never had that in 60 years.

[1:40:55] I spent Vietnam killing a lot of gooks because that's what we were trained to

[1:40:58] do is kill. We never had one session at all was to

[1:41:01] come back into society. When I extended over there, yeah, I I

[1:41:05] did it because I had guys that couldn't leave. I was pretty strong. I made rank

[1:41:08] pretty good. I would see guys get killed. So, I did pretty good. I stayed

[1:41:12] an extra 4 months and 4 days. So,

[1:41:15] out of all of this, that's the only one thing thing I got is my wife. I met

[1:41:19] through a guy that flunked out of Sacramento State. He was about a month

[1:41:22] behind in basic training. Eventually over there, somebody said, "Hey, there's

[1:41:26] a guy over there that's looking for a Wisconsin guy." He had some gals take

[1:41:30] her APO addresses that he flunked out of college and write to because he got a

[1:41:34] discharge when his father got killed in an auto accident while he was waiting to

[1:41:38] come to Nam. Okay? So, Peg and I met 13 and 1/2 months later. We wrote letters.

[1:41:44] Um I found the last one that she wrote to

[1:41:47] me, and we also the grandkids found the last one I wrote to her

[1:41:52] 8 days before we got married in '69. So, we produced only 10 kids.

[1:41:58] Had a big party on the 50th anniversary. We got dozens of cards showing Peggy do

[1:42:02] 50 more. Yeah, we were

[1:42:05] deeply attached. She was from California. She worked as a G4 as a

[1:42:10] sophomore in college. Back then it was generals from

[1:42:13] Washington would tell them ordered us ordered out supplies, military uniform.

[1:42:17] So, they would they would actually have to type out the invoice and do it.

[1:42:20] That's what she was good at, okay? Uh she took me horseback riding. We got

[1:42:24] pictures of that. First time ever. She had a trained horse. And if I

[1:42:28] smarted off, she says, "Do it again. I'll have the horse take the tail and

[1:42:31] knock your head off." Well, it did. Bless you. Yeah. So, good memories.

[1:42:35] She's in a better place. She suffered immensely from December on.

[1:42:40] One test after another. Let's switch to chemo. What we're doing. Let's do this.

[1:42:43] Let's take her to Madison for radiation. She was treated like a used tire.

[1:42:49] Pretty much. Yeah. And I remember going in to Encircle AMC,

[1:42:54] Theta Clark five different times from October emergencies because she had

[1:42:59] problems with her liver and all of that retained. So, they had to start pumping

[1:43:02] it out every four or five days. 5.75, 6.75. And it was a matter of sometimes

[1:43:09] they had to be pretty delicate. They had to get the layer body right so they

[1:43:11] didn't injure the other organs. They they physically went in and siphoned it

[1:43:15] out four or five six hours. And then they had to start putting

[1:43:18] protein back in because she was getting too weak. So, they had to keep her extra

[1:43:22] hours and and put that form of protein back in.

[1:43:26] So, what are we going to do? So, the kids got just just baffled. It's like,

[1:43:30] "What are we going to do? What can we count on? It's in doctor's hands.

[1:43:33] And some some fail. So, my wife failed on other treatments, you know.

[1:43:37] But, I've seen boards, unfortunately, all these centers have like 40 boards.

[1:43:41] We do it every Friday, and by 7:30, 8:00, 39 of the 40 are all lit up. In

[1:43:46] other words, people are in treatment. And a lot of people know that. They're

[1:43:48] in treatment rooms. I started seeing a guy that's from

[1:43:51] Amboy. Every Friday, he'd come in. First 2

[1:43:55] weeks, yeah, I pretty good. And then, all of a sudden, 1 week later, he came

[1:43:59] in and he's got a cane. A month later after that, he's in a

[1:44:02] wheelchair. And the the nurse said, "Hey, how you doing? How you doing

[1:44:04] today, Homer?" Well,

[1:44:06] she used to say, "I'm better than nothing." What did that mean?

[1:44:10] His wife had been coming in, too. I didn't realize she died the week before.

[1:44:14] What a suffering is going on in this world. Why do we have so much cancer in

[1:44:18] this country? I've traveled other countries. My daughter traveled There's

[1:44:21] no cancer in Okinawa. There's no cancer in Turkey. You know what I mean? Name

[1:44:25] some others. And And we can prove that. There isn't. What are we doing wrong

[1:44:28] here? Is it the soils? No, is it our sprays? I've got Agent

[1:44:32] Orange because the seven chemical companies that were paid to produce it

[1:44:35] for the company for the government, we sued them. 441,000 guys signed a suit

[1:44:40] with me in 1982. 15 months later, they all denied. They

[1:44:44] all got off. $180 million all went to the 16

[1:44:47] All went to the 16 attorneys we had. We didn't get a dime. So, ever since then,

[1:44:51] the Veterans Administration has been kicking up, kicking like me and his

[1:44:55] patients, rating me. You know what I mean? So, someday,

[1:44:58] I'm waiting on the one from my hearing test. And two to three weeks which was a

[1:45:02] month ago yesterday, I have not gotten a mail out of how my hearing test went.

[1:45:07] I've been probably deaf for 20 years. Okay? Mostly.

[1:45:10] So, the one yesterday said

[1:45:14] that in 48 hours, it'll be documented, it'll be sent to your county veteran

[1:45:17] service officer. And Michelle knows that. She's got me coming in Friday to

[1:45:21] do some special things. Okay? So, I commend how good they're finally waking

[1:45:24] up on this county to do well. I We had a real Dudley one back in the when I got

[1:45:29] old in '69. He wasn't in his office six out of seven

[1:45:32] times. You know, I I think his last name was chill. But and and other guys

[1:45:36] experienced the same thing. >> Well,

[1:45:39] Supervisor Miller, on behalf of the board, we certainly do

[1:45:43] offer our sympathy. I know how close you and Peggy were.

[1:45:46] » Yeah, well, thank you. Yeah, we're uh just to let

[1:45:49] you know, everybody's doing good. Uh we got our family reunion on the 28th. And

[1:45:54] I just the rule is bring two or three items that you don't that you want to

[1:45:58] give away, and then everybody will get like a bid on it, and if they don't get

[1:46:01] given away, you take them home. Everybody's fine. So, there'll be a

[1:46:04] probably 130, 150 people at that. So, thank you for letting me speak, and we

[1:46:08] are survivors. >> Thank you.

[1:46:11] » Thank you. Thank you very much.

[1:46:18] » Yeah, yeah. >> Did you guys run the front of it? Are

[1:46:20] you guys aware of the highway committee? Thank you.

[1:46:26] » Right. Right. You open your document

County Board - 16 Jun 2026

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